Anton Kusters (above) is one of the hardest working collaborators on the planet….Burn does not exist without Anton…the fact that he is jet lagged and needs a “time out” should be of no surprise….he jets back and forth from his home in Belgium to Japan, and his Yakuza project, and now just as easily to New York where he is crashing on the Burn office/gallery/crash pad sofa…he is here to work on BURN…we can do a lot by Skype, but one on one we can really get some work done….
what started out as an extension of my Road Trips blog and just a fun project with and for our audience here, has now blossomed into a seriously considered online media outlet/producer….all that has happened to Burn in the last few weeks is humbling to say the least….our nomination for a Lucie Award is flattering considering we are just a two person lap top from wherever operation at the moment… this was predicated by a nice mention of Burn on the New York Times “LENS” blog last week, whose progenitor, editor/ photographer James Estrin, just left my loft after meeting with my students for two hours…..David Walker, Senior Editor at PDN, this month did a nice, accurate, to the point Q&A interview with me in their magazine which always makes a strong push in the direction of young emerging photographers….The Digital Journalist guru Dirck Halstead at the same time wrote a strong editorial about the state of affairs for young photographers, and suggested that large funding operations direct some of their efforts in the direction of Burn, MediaStorm, 100 Eyes and other online efforts who pledge to pump lifeblood into a sagging industry….
so all at once, Burn has a place at the table ….organic…based on personal history and trust….working with the best people for all the right reasons, and all of it audience driven…..all of it…..funding for EPF, from you….donations which have kept our loft alive for office and gallery space, from you….submissions which have us now with more content than we can handle, from you….incidentally, i apologize for not being able to respond to every submission of photographs and every kind donation….we are way behind in viewing submissions and will soon employ a professional experienced editor to help, but i assure i view each and every submission…for those i like, i make contact as soon as possible, but please be patient…many many thanks to those of you who have given support….we could not have survived this long without you….
if now is the time for Burn to receive funding so that commissions can be given to the young generation and original work can be produced here for Burn from the iconic to the youngbloods, then OUR efforts here will be deemed someday to have been significant and historic… i just think that way….
so, let’s take this audience one step further….do i need your help? yes…. more pictures of course…but , what we all need now is to have a small first class team of grant writers and/or sales people to at least get me to the right person at the right kind of sponsorship venue…Burn is easy for me to pitch….really easy….first of all, it is not about me or my work(that is another problem!!)….Burn is about making a contribution to the new generation of photographers who express themselves either journalistically or artistically or both…..if you have any thoughts about potential funders and grant writing talent, please send them to Kerry Payne (photo below) who celebrated her 40th birthday at the Burn loft last night with our students toasted with Veuve Cliquot and Orios …Kerry is a hard core Aussie and should be recovered from last night’s modest bash by the time you send her an e-mail – kerry@burnmagazine.org….she is a biz person….do not write to Anton or to me, we are not….please please..
Anton and i cannot do any more than what Burn is now by ourselves…with just a little bit of help we can revolutionize….hey , is there anything better than the start up of a rock band in the garage?? yes, that is us….underground…underdog….full of enthusiasm…the best combo for creativity…
tomorrow we will go on with a live Q&A with Martin Parr…he will answer thought provoking questions from the readers here for two hours….Martin wants to do an original essay with first publication on Burn….i want to make that happen….and at the same time give concurrent commissions to two or three young less known photographers….i will make this happen….Martin, and Magnum , support this effort….a story on Alex and Rebecca Webb will follow soon behind, and they will be presenting at the Burn gallery event this friday evening where about 30 Burn audience photographers will be hanging on the same walls with Bruce Davidson, Elliott Erwitt, Gilles Peress, Susan Meiselas and Chris Anderson….we will try to invite likely print buyers and hope that someone who might collect an Erwitt would also buy a print from an emerging photographer…anyway, a nice thought…..oh yes, my loft students for the week are the highlight of the evening when they present their efforts for the week….we are hard at work on this show now…
so, this is a 24 hour time out from our normal programming….essays and singles from you will up again by tomorrow afternoon….but, this should give you all something to chew on….for one thing, do you take a time out right in the middle of when things are busy???
OK OK, where do we order the Burn hoodies?
GORDON my man –
http://www.cafepress.com/burnstore
the black hoodie is indeed the coolest…
a
DAH & All- Awesome work! Always anticipating whatever might be next!! Visual Fuel…right here on BURN!
Cheers, Jeremy
This really is a special place filled with people who are just plain DOIN’ IT!!! Yes, DAH is a visionary but, dammit, he brings those dreams to life. That is, with the help of folks like Anton, Mike Courvoisier, Kerry Payne and more behind-the-scenes people than any of us could imagine. IMHO we are at the epicenter of a revolution that is changing the way photography will be seen and supported in the future…not to mention how photographers will craft their work. Burn has a place for everyone, from conceptual to photojournalistic to art to documentary to multimedia. And yes, we have a place for non-photogs who add more than they know. Yes, a civilian mass audience, I’m talking about you!
So what’s next? Who knows? As DAH says, this whole endeavor has been organic from the start, and such creative ventures make their own paths. No one is following anyone or anything here; we are making up our own rules as we go.
It is such a gift to be part of the Burn community! Thank you thank you thank you…
hugs
Patricia
great stuff… anton really doing it..
good luck for all..
Hi David, I am confused…there is a Burn Gallery show this friday night? why such short notice on the show and are people invited? Sounds like a great show but it feels like I missed something somewhere, did I? Was it posted on Burn somewhere?
Burn is great and I love it. I will return for every essay that you publish and will watch and see what becomes of the careers of the young photographers that you feature.
Yet, after reading this piece, there is one thing I cannot help but feel discouraged about.
There are many older photographers who have been around, doing good work, always struggling, still struggling, who yet have much to contribute.
Unless they are already big names – and even some of those are struggling, it seems – the avenues of support grow every more narrow, because the thrust is to help out the young, emerging, photographer and let the older ones drift into their meagre pastures.
For Anton
VALERY…
the answer is yes….we contacted photographers who we thought had photographs most likely to work in a gallery sales event…if you think we missed you, please bring a print…the one we ran here on Burn would be terrific…or better, get it over here tomorrow…
why such short notice?? we are going to have a crowd control problem as it is..i was a bit reluctant to post even what i just did…of course, Burn readers are invited…i am just worried we could have so many people that we literally cannot handle it..
hope to see you Valery….
cheers, david
FROSTFROG…
a very very good point….i define “emerging” loosely and say so regularly…. there are certainly some photographers who are shall we say “over 40” who are in fact emerging…the two books i mentored this year , Michael Loyd Young “Blues, Booze, and Barbque” and Patricia Lay Dorsey “Falling Into Place” are by photographers who are both comfortably over 40….so, i am open …totally…many photographers who are published on Burn are perhaps not so well known and evolving/growing and not 25…..the audience here is largely younger, but good pictures are good pictures….so send me some links…it is never to late to be the man/woman you could have been…
cheers, david
FROSTFROG
you’ll find all ages among us at BURN.
I have not had the impression that it is about the age here. It is about photography! :-)
ANTON
great hoodie … but I am not a hoodie person. Do we have mugs too? If not, we definitively should do some.
Hey, it’s getting wintery outside. I got my first cold of the year today. It is definitively because I was not drinking my hot tea/chocolate/coffee/whisky out of the right mug!
DAH
speechless … so so happy about this. So pround to have a print on your wall too … What an honour!
KERRY
Congratulations!!!!! All my best wishes to you and thanks so much for helping out here :-)
Hope you had a wonderful day yesterday – looking at the image I think you had it … All the best for your future…
and whose big smile do I see on the right?
DOMINIK!!!!!!
Looks like you are having lots of fun! Hope your new little digital helper is doing a good job there …
I would blame myself if this was not the case.
Looking forward to meet you for a looooooong coffee break once you are back here. Lots to talk about.
Enjoy! Enjoy! Relax! Have fun! Get excited! And enjoy some more!
Cheers&hugs
DAH – Glad to hear that. Being 36 but only shooting for about five years makes me think I should qualify for that category, but so many grants aimed at emerging photographers have age limits.
There was a thread over on Lightstalkers where someone was willing people to help write grant proposals. That may not be a bad place to start looking.
http://www.lightstalkers.org/free-grantscholarship-advice
Wish I could help more.
ok… someone said..
photos… more photos…
we need more photos..
thats why im here…
everyone enjoy…
have fun….
LEATHER FESTIVAL FROM SAN FRANCISCO LAS EXPEDITION….
( SOME CRAZY STUFF happened in venice last night… but thats for later…)
now, enjoy the latest San Francisco craziness…i know .. little late..
but better late than never..
( hey DAH, im just trying to buy Anton some time…)
NEW LINK
NEW LINK
NEW LINK….clivk below…:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif09?authkey=Gv1sRgCMHYsNqwiP2CpwE#slideshow/5389996794581608786
Ok, just checked the store. No mugs (yet)!
But t-shirts and I will be getting some. BUT … there is something wrong with the logo: The BURN dot is not red. Can we fix that?
DAH,
we might be able to apply for some financial help from the EU. But it is quite complicated. They even offer workshops to help you fill those application forms … There are a couple of websites. I’ll do a search and send it to … whom? Kerry? hmmm …
Will write you a separate email in a week or two when things calmed down a little.
DAH – burn is profound.
I have for a long time argued among my own community as to when photographers would shed their old world mantles and wake up to the new world of media and distribution which is ever emerging. Photography needs a new model to not be swallowed by other emerging world orders. Your previous post (with the snazzy film sequence) and this post proves to me beyond a doubt that burn is striving to create this new world/place for photographers – establishing a new photographic order.
burn is pioneer. I salute you for this. Bravo burn. The accolades are more than well deserved. Your comment as to burn being ‘two people and a laptop’ made me chuckle. This is the new world, and two people and a laptop can create and change that world. Perhaps this mute point goes to prove the adage of it’s not the camera you have but the person you are which will make truly a great photograph.
Innovate, invent, create, burn.
with every best wish.
oh i forgot the warning…
EXPLICIT..
( do not open in front of kids or anywhere around AKAKY’s office..:))))))))
parental advice for the above slideshow…
especially from number 32 photo and up….
(… dont shoot the messenger…)
Hi David, I sent you a personal email regarding a print and the show…..
My brain is crashing. I’ll be back in the morning so that I can better digest this. Time out.
Time out for me too. Good night BURN.
I love the top picture but I don’t know who is in the second shot. I suppose the woman is Kerry.
I can’t really think of Burn as an underdog, not with a big name at the helm – perhaps its relative. But nevermind, its all great what you are doing and I wish Burn every success. I think of Burn as a runaway success in a new model of image sharing. I think you can’t lose, though of course no one can afford to be complacent.
David, you’re f….ing nuts, keep it up. When you need to chill, please stream http://wdvx.com/
it WILL make you happy…er. I’m sorry I could not make contact with you last week. I was working
in Staten Island and had hoped we could meet mano y mano.
Let me know what I can do. Perhaps the Poynter Institute should be informed of your efforts. There really is a lot of non-profit cash out there. I know you know.
Paul O
ANDREA C…
didn’t i clearly say that the woman was Kerry?? if not, it is Kerry….certainly underdog in the world of the large media companies…
on a funny ( still explicit ) mode.
“HERVE being CURIOUS”…
click below..
laughing…
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif09?authkey=Gv1sRgCMHYsNqwiP2CpwE#5389997903114413042
Anton,
Any decision on your facial hairgrowth taken yet?
Burn keeps on burning
and the world keeps on turning…
thursday morning here, wednesday night there…
been loving the evolution of burn…
(dah – still miss your road trips diary stuff ; )
‘WHAT NOT TO LOVE’
Civi – can we put that on a t-shirt?
ALL THE BURN CREW – WELL DONE!!!!
HAVE A GREAT NIGHT FRIDAY
Love Peace & Photography!
ok, i’m gonna do a bit of a panos here and drop a track…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS3hEuAbuLE
‘people keep on burning…’
love those teddy bear pants!
Lovely day at the loft, report coming as soon as I can, but maybe will wait and will scribble the day and the slideshow and opening all together..must do Frank talk too, so some juggling of time, but for now, what a great group at the workshop, and I too am oh so proud that roadtrips is all grown up!
JOHN –
still experimenting. main problem though is that i’m too chicken. but i’m working on it.
a
I just looked through Penns “Passage”, twice. What amazing stuff. What amazing vision.
In 1947, the year I was born, he was doing stuff that still looks ultra edgy today. I am in awe.
Hey Panos
That first image in your new set looks like the DAHlai Lama :>))
Anton,
Chicken have feathers, not moustaches.
David, Anton,
This may not be exactly what you are looking for as far as help but at least it’s something…
I “discovered” some new talent for you tonight. (Since I used to do that in Hollywood with comedians, musicians, actors…I may as well use my ability to include discovering photographers.) Sent him your way so hopefully you’ll get his submission soon.
His name is Jake Mendel. Powerhouse is publishing his book on Short Track.
http://www.powerhousebooks.com/book/1116
Maybe I’ll have better luck getting other people’s work published here :))
I don’t seem to be doing so well with my own.
p.s. David I love, love, love that top shot. Gorgeous!
DAH
I love the top shot also..
don’t have much to add, just keep on doing the do the way you do…
thanks to you and Anton..
best
Kathleen
Thanks, David and Lassal!
I appreciate that.
Yai frosty frogperson I’m a young pup…..hoping do develop into a gecko or two…….
In physics “Critical Mass is the smallest amount of material needed to create a sustained nuclear chain reaction. Its size depends on several factors, including the kind of material used, its concentration and purity, and the composition and geometry of the surrounding reaction system”
People, we have reached critical mass…..!!
Congratulations to all (with special a mention, of course, for DAH & AK)
David…Burn/Road Trips has been a continued inspiration for myself and for many many photographers I know. To be a part of this has been a non-stop ride and I am ready to keep going. I am really hoping our paths will be able to cross towards the end of this month. I am working on it and will try to keep tabs of where you are to meet up. I for one, would also like to help out more in any way I can. Maybe I could set up a field office here in Beijing?! Are you getting many hits from China? I hope you can at least maybe sell my print on Friday to help boost the coffers. Best, Sean.
sean – field office, exhibits in europe and further, is a great idea.
howd the workshop go?
Anton and David you rock. I am just sorry not to be there with you to celebrate such beautiful event. All the best for the evening and I wish Burn the best.
Speak soon
Uncle Dave -do you take a time out right in the middle of when things are busy???
right on man I am a big advocate of the siesta , nana nap , a couple of bex and a good lie down.
Even last week when things are horrendously busy in hot steamy and tragic after the earthquake in Padang, you got to take time!
Living and working under an equatorial sun has really taught me how to live, work and play!
Congrats on the Lucie nomination you guys ,I’m proud to have been there with you guys in some small way!
Cheers Glenn
It feels so good to wake up to such an amzing and inspiring post (and comments, too!).
I don’t post much (even because I was offline for two weeks, having moved to a different country, and I’m waaaaaay behind trying to catch up with the 2000+ comments on “Avalon”), but I follow burn very closely, wishing I could do something more than just visiting daily, sometimes hourly. I so hope I’ll be able to come up with an essay worth of being submitted and worth of being looked at by such an amazing group of people (that is, david, burn staff, the photographers featured on burn, and most people who regularly post here).
And posts like this just makes it all seem easier, it’s so up-lifting, I couldn’t help but smile while reading and thinking this is all true, happening, and so beautiful.
Don’t know if my words make a lot of sense, but as Patricia so rightly put it, “it is such a gift to be part of the Burn community! Thank you thank you thank you…”
David B…It went well thanks. Just put the images up on my blog from the workshop (just click my name to see them). It’s early days for us but we’re hoping to build them up. Let’s see where they take us!
By the way, do you live in the Washington DC/NYC area? Will be in the States for a couple of weeks at the end of this month/early Nov. If yes, let me know, would be good to meet up.
If any other Burnians are reading this then, let me know if any of you will be in the DC/NYC area around that time too. It’ll be my first time in both cities. Would be great to meet people.
GLENN…
i can relax right in the middle of the most potentially stressful scenario…5-10 minute siestas work for me…i have never studied meditation, but have my own version, and can get some relaxing space when chaos reigns….
you have been here in a big way with your comments and your work….i think i first started writing to Marcin and to you and Cathy…and Rafal in there at the beginning also..isn’t that correct??
CATHY….
thanks for the tip on Jake ..i was not familiar with his work….i will take a close look…and i will always look at your work, offer suggestions, and hope that you too will published here…with all that good light, spectacular scenery, and good subject matter all around Santa Fe, i am sure you will come up with a nice single for us….i know, i know, you are off to India soon…but, please try to do something right at home…i know India is exotic and colorful and so much going on..everyone likes to photograph India, i like to photograph in India….that is the problem…everyone has good pictures from India…very difficult to come up with something beyond the cliché …however, if you do, then i am ready to publish…
MIMI….
we are ready with your essay….it is now just a bit too long….i will make a recommended edit and let you have a look…then we will be ready to go….many thanks for your patience…..
cheers, david
Congratulations David, Anton, and all the Burnians!!!
Congratulations Burn….David, Anton, Michael, Kerry, Tom, Chris, and all those who worked tirelessly behind the scenes…
David: i am so pleased and happy that you and James had a chance to finally meet and that your students had a chance too…he’s a great guy and i hope that what little i did helped you 2 meet, helped Burn become the place/magazine/outlet it is…
Anton: :)))) u r the foundation, for all…and couch of no couch, that’s one of the most gorgeous views in the world, not a bad crash office for the 2nd hardest working Belgium class act in history (just behind John…and with him, i was so hoping to see the CountOlaf look ;)))))))…bur u r the boss…from a behind the scenes perspective, i can say that David or anyone on the planet couldnt imagine a more dedicated, compassioned, loyal, wide-heart-thump-open partner than u….
Best of luck for a great show friday, we’d be there if we could, off for a family drive….anxious to have a report…
congrats burnians, workers (in front and behind the spotlight), published photographers, commentators, writers, readers, followers, the whole enchilada…
wide-world hug
b
AM I LATE ???
AUDREY….BOB
i am sure both of you know that without your input, both in photographs and in writing, Burn would not exist….Audrey, your sensitive photographs of your family have been inspirational to many and we are ready to publish very soon your newest pictures from Brigitte et Bernard…Bob, you have taken the time to write extensively on almost every essay and single published here on Burn and have been a fine talent scout as well…we are now preparing also the prints from you and Marina for the show tomorrow…
cheers, david
OUR PATRICIA(love you) once wrote:
“It is such a gift to be part of the Burn community! Thank you thank you thank you…”
yes,Fransesco… What a gift !!!
Viva ALaska !!! Frostfrog …I knew you were BURNing up there :)))
PANOS,
I LOVE the 1st and the last photo…Explicit??? …
No problem…I see no explicit…I see only your trademark :)))hihihi
TOMMY,
” 2 people and a laptop” for a minute I thought …” 2 people and a lap dance”
funniest ever …:)))
PHOTOHUMOURIST,
if you cannot digest…might be the gratitude …or the beef:)))
SAM HARRIS,
“Burn keeps on burning
and the world keeps on turning…” you rock !!!
IMANTS,
young pups+geckos= BURNIANS United .
RAMON MAS,
Critical mass…Civilian mass…Ramon Maaasssss…:)))
POMARA,
“keep it Up…it will make you happy…??? ” hihihi…what a message !!!
Up,Up,Up …
DAH – Have Napped in APC’s , taxi’s ,last week the tiles of Jakartas international airport , the Padang govenors palace , I owe my sanity and good humour to my ability to catch 40 winks ,napping is an act of self preservation and nothing buggers you so much as sleep deprivation the sooner the western world stas keeping tropical hours the better we all will be.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY KERRY !!!
Behind a successful BURN…there is always a hard working LADY !!!
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
BOBBYB,
my love to your family…VIVA the whole enchilada …GO BOBBY,GO BOBBY,GO BOBBY !!!
CATHY,
we count on YOU…Sky is the limit…not even the sky…cause we have
SPACECOWBOY…up there…CROWD CONTROL…We need help …OVER .
ANTON,
WE LOVE YOU with feathers, moustaches…is that right MR.J.VINK ???
KATIE, STREET FIGHTER …
DAVIDB the DAVIDB …
MY GRACIE, the BURN MUSE…
AUDREY ,my family …
and
BURNIANS …and I mean ALL of YOU…wherever you ARE …
WE LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.
P.S I will be watching YOU :)))
You know…therefore…Don’t get me started …:)))
SEAN ,
we can’t wait to have you in the DC/NYC area…!!!
SEAN in Beijing,
SEAN in DC,
what not to love,
emerging no more …:)))
Hi all at Burn HQ,
Great news about tomorrow night have a good one and you manage to contain the crowds.
Looking for the Mr Parr when he can make it.
This place is really rocking.
Just a quick techie note, my rss feed doesn’t seem to be working, don’t know if anyone else is getting this problem. Maybe it’s just traffic overload.
Cheers all and best of luck.
If you need any help from England drop me a line.
Ian
TOMMY..
as i have said many times, it is comments like yours that keep us going….there is no way to keep everyone happy all the time….but, if we have a healthy confluence of opinions and photography , then i think the energy will flow….the minute it is not organic and fun and educational and inspirational for all of us, is the minute i go do something else….we are all bonded here on Burn by positive energy and that is how it will stay….again, many thanks for your thoughtful comment….
IAN…
Anton is having his coffee now, but i just alerted him to your concern….30 seconds later…he tells me everything is fine as far as he can see…..
cheers, david
Apologies, think the rss problem was my end, quick reboot all fine.
Ian
CIVI
I agree with Sam that it would be great to have a “what not to love” shirt out.
GLENN,
I am not sure about your sanity…but there is no time for TIME OUT…:)))
We ALL know that MR.HARVEY is a joker …:)))THERE IS NO TIME OUT !!!
AITKEN,
I was the one doing the OVERLOAD…oupssie…
I am going to drink some red wine …hopping to free some lanes …
CAN I GO NOW ???
AKAKY…IRL…I thought you have gone already (&)
LASSAL,
I will Skype KERRY…she will talk to ANTON and then they will call MR.HARVEY…who will be in the middle of the Skyping Session with OUR PATRICIA….who is Skyping …REIMAR …
WHAT THE BURN NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S Go figure…not that I know how to do skyping …
“ …… enjoy the show.
LOVE you IMANTS…en…joy
en…vious
david:….thank u…..send u a message…wish you all the biggest suggest on friday….will await the reports from attendees…..i my picture doesnt sell (can’t imagine it will, that’s weird abstraction ;)), i am giving it to you…it’s my gift….for all u’ve done for us
now off for our own long family drive….
b
Love the Parr Walmart image on the home page. Can’t wait for noon.
DAH
*scans the comments with her little metal detector..picks up a tiny nugget, holds it to the light…lets go a EEEEHAWWW when she realizes that it came from a vein located deep in one of the most talented mine shafts of Burnland..*
a soon to be published essay by MIMI!
GOOD-O! soon-soon-soon, i hope!
YES, i also want a ¨BURN. what´s not to love, tee shirt¨!
SEAN
Have a wonderful time in DC and NYC! What a difference from North Korea, eh? NYC, my fave city in the en-tire world! (Not that i´ve seen all that many other cities, but i was spoiled by Manhattan and will never get it out of my blood!)
CATHY
Have a great time in India..i would like to second DAH and say i´d love to see some kick-ass photos from you of Santa Fe..there is something about the knowledge that comes from ultra-familiarity that provides very fertile ground for a seriously original artistic contribution. says me anyway. So? Hope to see your work on Burn sooner rather than later. Keep your heart, keep thinking..it will happen!
CIVI
Love how pumped up you get when there´s a new post here from DAH..You´re a regular dancing bear this morning ;)
Ok..work beckons..no, it doesn´t beckon it cracks the whipski, so BEST to ALL
Kathleen
wal-MART..IN BURN area !!!
Keep shooting in the Walmart area …
DAVID and co..
thank you so much for giving us this opportunity…
to learn and to grow….
thank you,,,,
and of course special thanks again to martin….
what not to love?
:))
I love our TIMING KATIE …
I am drinking MARTINi on the rocks :)))
DAVID,
I’m leaving Santa Fe next week. Won’t be back till Spring but I’ve got hard drives full of unedited work from here to edit. In the meantime I started a great new project in California and can’t wait to get back to continue it. The project I’ve been searching for a long time. Forget the singles, this is going to be a kick ass essay!
I know what I want to shoot in India and it’s not cliche at all or even exotic. I’ll be there for five weeks so exotic will be hard to avoid but I’ve already got a couple of “assignments” for myself. Not leaving for India till January though.
I’ve already submitted some single images from Santa Fe that I thought were pretty darn good but have yet to see anything here.
I would like to send my hearts to all Burnians! Especially, David and Anton !
Celebrating Friday fiesta, I hope our all works sold out. :)))
a civilian-mass audience! You are very lovely….:))
Hi! Kerry. it’s me. very glad :))
KYUNGHEE LEE,
lonely indeed …How is your daughter
You must the Hawaiian LADY…I might be wrong…
I am doing a research…” if olive oil and alcohol combined …can improve memory”
LOVE BURN and PHOTOGRAPHY !!!!
Herta Mueller wins 2009 Nobel literature prize
Davin…check her out …about …Romania…
YOUNG TOM
i flew in last night as the sun was setting. loved all the trees below (which reminded me of the spongy kind that adorn architectural models). have a piece in a show that opens tonight at the photographic center northwest. am flying back to california 7.35 friday night.
email me.
PANOS…can I be the dj tonight???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doYNBHE8Yes
ANNA,
Viva…are you coming to Greece too???
THODORIS,
where are you ???
Hey DAVID
we spoke way back when, when the spark of Burn started to roaring … and I just wanted to let you know that I am still in Brooklyn, In the Willyburg area, and SOOOOO more than willing to give my time and energy to Burn to help it progress … I still would like very much to get my hands dirty in Burn be it a Gallery attendant or writing grants or flying to mars to prove a point thats not yet made!
Please let me know if you need anything, and I can arrange to stop by the loft if you are having any general meeting … my # is 203-217-9718 and e-mail vaso.lakis@gmail.com
Cheers, hope to hear from you soon.
Vasilios
CIVI
absolutely!
I am very impressed…MR.PARR is “shooting” answers fast…
I am afraid he is drinking the same coffee as MR.HARVEY …
speedochino like cappuccino
VIVA …I am still drinking MARTINi …:)))
Did HE say FART …???
MR.HARVEY…what can I say …You have Cool friends …
take it from an old fart …like myself !!!
It’s only rock & roll and I love you !!!
WAKE UP BURNIANS !!!
Glenn,Haik, Herve,Katharina,MartinK,Eric, JennyLynn,AndrewB, MartinB,Eva,Lisa, CharlesP,Chrisb,Abele,
Asher,JoniK,PaulT,Joe,Stoopid,Gina,Lance,MyGracie…
Walm- ART …is OPEN…please proceed …NOW :)))
dear BURNIANS,
I like the Dear…
as much as I like the Cheers…
ARE YOU DONE YET???
dear HAIK,
what are you drinking, mate ??? beef…???
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL:)))
ah well – he donna like my question.
cozy in here though…
DANIDB,
did you say ninja …you such a pisser…
When you will be an old fart yourself…Mr.Englishman with the Norwegian wine…
I wish you to have the same “speed” like MR.PARR …
or like…MR.HARVEY…he writes…and Skypes…and drinks tequilla…and travels…and
dances…like 17years old…OIME …
May the spirits of Universe …be with you, BURNIANS !!!
DavidB, you better go and draw his attention to it. I think he missed it by accident.
It’s quiet in here. I want to ask him another question about nostalgia. It’s so hard to avoid and not everyone can be interested in walmart etc. There must be a way to tackle the problem of nostalgia otherwise I think I am going to land in it. I’m just not that interested in the appearance of New India, not unless someone’s paying me. I much prefer exploring what I haven’t seen before than seeing what I already more or less know. I want to see into the past. Maybe that’s not even nostalgia. I’m not sure.
Someone somewhere was saying that photography helps us see the world better. I think it only helps photographers see better or differently and maybe even only when they are engaged in picture taking. I’m not sure it helps your average Joe with only a domestic interest in photography see the world any differently. I notice that its only when thinking about taking pictures that I see the world photographically. The rest of the time, I am just rushing about seeing it the way I always do. I guess we all filter our view of the world through our own interests and preoccupations.
whoooosh..
and the rush subsides..
i think the burn server had trouble keeping up with mr. parr on occasions..
great session – really enjoyed reading the answers.. and the walmart project will be fun.
ANDREAC,
I believe that you have to post your questions …in the other dialogue…
Go Aussie…go get him…before MR.HARVEY serves the turkey sandwiches …
CIVI :)
What not to love about a beef barbecue on a BURNing server?
and the question from the CIVILIAN to MR.PARR:
CIVILIAN : MR.PARR , are you happy with your new “bloody” Walmart project…???
What NOT to LOVE !!!
rare..
*warm round of applause*
and thank you david, n anton, for hooking it up..
What did I tell you ???
time for turkey sandwiches,low fat, no sodium maybe salmon and medium NY steak…poker… and wine !!!
VIVA, VIVA, VIVA …BURN is still BURNING…
and now who is gonna analyze in depth the ninja answers…:)))
Thank you MR.HARVEY …and the BURNing team … and BURNIANS…
Goodnight from Greece… can you imagine if i wasn’t dyslexic …OIME
DAVID/ ANTON,
Congrats for all the well deserved recognition that is going your way these days. There is nothing more pleasing than to have witnessed how Burn has grown and to see what it is becoming….I remember the start, the vision you had and little by little, it is all coming together… You can both be very proud!
I wish I could be there on Friday to see the exhibit…I am sure this will be a success! My spirit is with you guys!!!
Cheers,
Eric
Huge inspiration to read everything here tonight. Thanks to everyone who made it happen!
My favourites from Mr. Parr:
‘There is an unwritten law that tells you when it is OK to shoot someone , and when there is a problem. about 1% of the population ( more if they are with kids) get angry when they see a camera.’
‘(…) It is my intuition that drives this thinking.’
‘there is nothing as quirky or fascinating as people.’
‘(…) However I sometimes think that photojournalists, in particular, always look to other societies problems rather than confronting their own. It is too easy just to blame others.’
‘So in one sense I want the photos I take now to be about now, not about times that have disappeared. Having said that, I too sometimes am lazy and shoot old world, but at least am aware of this when I do it.’
Going to copy these to my ‘favourite quotes text document’…
Civi (all)…
I’m here, I’m here!!
just got back from Greece… did my duty—voted… in my memory cards I think I might have a short visual story of a guy who jumps on a plane to go cast his vote in a desperate attempt to participate in a so called democracy :))) … now the hard part—editing… if indeed I have a sequence I’ll make a slideshow and post a link in a couple of days…
Burn seems to be spreading its wings… that’s really cool… all the attention/nomination(s)… the gallery show tomorrow… just read the interview with Martin Parr…
As a wise person I once knew said… ??what’s not to love??
Cheers :))
loved that one
‘So in one sense I want the photos I take now to be about now, not about times that have disappeared. Having said that, I too sometimes am lazy and shoot old world, but at least am aware of this when I do it.’
LASSAL,
Good to see your name here…. so when are you coming to see family in Brussels???? Let me know when you will be around….
Eric
ohmygod, i am so HIGH! It was so great reading Martin´s answers to our questions. His answers gave me yet more questions but that´s good too..turbo fired my imagination.
CIVILIAN
See? Told you he was amazing! Did you google him and see why i´m such a groupie? And yeah,
¨a civilian-mass audience! You are very lovely….:))¨
Wasn´t that just the love-liest comment? I am still smiling at that kind and humble recognition of your contribution here..
DAH
Hats off, Mr Burn..thanks for bringing Martin to Burn..it plain made my day, week, month.
PANOS
You said way back when, start with your own village. i never forgot. Both DAH and Martin seconded that today. It might not be exotic but it´s part of our DNA. What do we know most about? i.e, what is within us that most bears exposing to the light? The closer to the bone, the sweeter the meat.
ALL
Let´s celebrate poker night at Burn..it´s a big week…the exhibit on Friday night..the walls are gonna jump for joy, the pixels are gonna swoon, the air is gonna vibrate with all the energy that´s there and worldwide from others wishing they were there. Happy days..
best to ALL
Kathleen
ERIC
I have been wanting to say this for a while!
congratulations to you for your work..I have been following the development of the lords of the rings ad other stories you did.
I really really appreciate this, especialy considering the fact that photography is not your main activity.
you are a such an inspiring person!
grazie!
FRANCESCO,
Thanks for your kind words.
Eric
KATHLEEN…:)
exactly… “back yard”, “little village”..
Obviously the “exotic” is most of the times “easy” and “lazy”…
pulling the same powerful emotions , over and over, from
Africa, India and New Orleans and poverty and this and that…
The hardest to photograph is the boring , ordinary Wall Mart…
in the brain killing american suburbia..
but yet everyone prefers Las Vegas…because las vegas is easy, “safe”..
something like the “folsom leather festival in san francisco”…
easy, full of photos… but ends up boring in its own excess…
What Martin is photographing ( wal mart essay ), is not easy..
not guaranteed… unsafe…
good luck…
open the way.. we are all eyes..:)
Eric,
:)
i got your email
( hiding in the spam closet ! )
PANOS
Yes, YES! Walmart is the metaphor for the backyard, the village. Some naturally have that ability to slice cleanly through the familiar and splay it out for the rest of us in all its gory glory. (Todd Hido, Yoshiyuki Kohei, Richard Billingham for example). These people serve as 100 watt sources of inspiration to look homeward angel and pull it out from our souls, put it out there fearlessly. Yuh, well, my eyes hurt from thinking about this, LOL…so good to hear from you Panos..i thought it would be days before you saw that part of my post addressed to you.
hugZ
Kat-
Panos. A shit picture from wal-mart is still a shit picture from wal-mart, and a good picture from vegas is still a good picture from vegas. it dont matter where or what you shoot, its the shot that should count. This is easy, that is hard, is nonsense. so conversly, a shit shot from vegas will still be shit and a good shot from wal-mart will be good.
john
john gladdy- did you see my question to you awhile back about Ken Schles and Invisible City? Do you know / are you a fan?
John,
absolutely agree…
I just believe though that to pull an essay like ,
for example .. hmmm… Audrey’s , or Rafal’s…
its kinda harder than and more “unsafe” than an essay
about “HIV in africa”…etc..
but in the end ( as u say )..
its the picture that counts not the location…
so its not “walmart” vs “india”…
its ( non cliche) photography vs “boring”…
i wonder if people go for the cliche and vegas shots because of insecurity that they will not be taken seriously when photographing stuff closer to home.
the flikr generation thrive on ‘great shot’, and ‘WOW’ – shots which viewers are already familiar with and feel confident are ‘good’ shots… take a shit picture of a tough subject, bang it into black and white and some will still think it’s good snappin.. treat vegas to HDR or cross process and some will wet themselves.
our back yard could be walmart.. for some it is vegas.. or congo.. wherever it is – that is the place to start because there is good work to be done there..
after that, ‘work’ might propel you to other locations, yet you will still be in the same place and time..
it’s still martin who photographed new brighton that will be photographing american supermarket giants. still david ah who photographed ‘tell it like it is’ who fell in love with cuba.
it’s as difficult for any of us to crystallize our time and place.. our point of view..
it’s a place in-mind where good photography is made, rather than a place on the road.
i liked what martin said about photographing ‘old’ vs ‘new’, because to me that’s one of the essences of snappery – the ‘moment’ is not just confined to the fraction of a second, but also to the place, time and mindfulness of the photographer..
if we’re illustrating our place and our time as individuals, wherever that place and time is, the photographs have much more potential to be interesting.
it doesn’t even matter what flavor of photography you like to practice.
it just has to be honest..
hullooo, am i invisible? sheesh..this f*in place has way too much testosterone..what am i doing here anyway?
you know – i’ll bet there is someone who was ‘inside’ the “folsom leather festival”
with some great snaps which were far from easy to procure..
:o)
hope so.
kathleen – apologies.. was no intention to exclude you..
night
d
if you can pull it out of yourself in your own backyard then you sure as hell can pull it out in Vegas..THAT´S what Panos was saying way back when..START in our own village..that´s where familiarity makes it oh so hard to expose OURSELVES in the process..it´s part of our DNA..that´s why it´s a challenge, that´s why it´s important. Yes, like Audrey, like Rafal and yes, like Panos shot Venice. Doctor, heal thyself!
Freeman Patterson had a simple exercise in one of his books..walk 50 paces outside your front door, stop, find something to shoot. That could be 500, 5000, 50000 paces…it´s the Walmart in our lives that bears exposing to the world, then, ergo, expose the world to Walmart.
best
k-
except the simple exercise is far from simple..
David
s´ok, just sorta got to me for a second. thx. i love your comments, btw..and that post on electronic music in Eastern Europe was amazing..not sure if you saw my comment to you on that subject.
well, back to work for me..
ok, the rest of you can go back to ignoring me (´cept you, Panos ;)
kathleen
it’s true..
impossible to talk about anything unless we can first talk about ourselves :o)
freeman had a good idea..
David
Your last post btw, was superb, imo..i read it twice (the one about shooting honest and with mindfullness wherever you happen to be)..
really excellent..am printing it out.
great..
k-
ahh – sorry again.. very kind.
on close to home.. looking at my first print from 20 years ago – a crumbling wall 400 meters from my house :o)
electronic music started off photographing free parties for fun, which the guys in the flat upstairs organized.. a collective called DIY.
then it span out of control for a while.
hopefully have a post up on burn soon to chat about it all..
looking forward to people tearing into my work in both reasonable and unreasonable ways..
wasted
d
feeling parr inspired .. perhaps.. really enjoyed reading him.. his tone.
one of the things i love about the perceived ‘greats’ is how disarmingly reasonable and well explained their ideas are.. a real talent for simplifying some quite complicated ideas without breaking a metaphorical sweat.
good musicians are the same – just doing what they do.. able to explain it to anyone.
now i really must sleep..
night Kathleen
d
night, D..
i look forward to seeing your work published here..
yes, painters, writers too, btw..simplifying everything to the barest essentials.
k-
http://blog.melchersystem.com/2009/10/07/dying-in-africa-part-ii/
and for explaination
http://blog.melchersystem.com/2009/09/24/dying-in-africa/
ooohhhh … I missed the fun with Martin Parr… :-(((
And I really wanted to know what his favorite dish is.
Actually, after listening to all the interviews that are online, I did not really have a question concerning photography any more. More about other things. I wonder how the person behind these images is. That was one of the beautiful experiences of the workshops: you get to meet the person in a more or less “normal” daily situation. You see them move and react to situations and you get an idea about cause and effect that lead to the images. You get a glimpse. Just for a second. Like when DAH grabbed the camera in the dining room of the convent in Italy to make a picture of Chris and Atlas … or how everything in Antoine’s physique changed when this drunken guard came up to us in that parking lot in copsa mica where we were not welcome. These little things … you cannot really talk about them … they sometimes are minimal and … if you get a lot of them, you get facettes that maybe help you understand somebody. We all are where we are due to so many small and big decisions … I just love to watch that … and to try to understand. It just makes me happy somehow.
And that is one of the things I love in photography: it gives me an excuse to get close and watch – and sometimes I come up with little puzzles about different people. :-)) But never the last piece. It is always incomplete somehow. It is the only incompleteness that gives me satisfaction.
So I guess I meant is seriously when I said that I would have asked for his favorite dish. But then again I probably would have gotten the shortest answer. :-))))
Erica
there is no way John Gladdy does not fall for “invisible city”. I had to think of him too, when I saw the images … Absolutely!!! Although Ken does reach a more universal stand with the images he has chosen for this one book. I have just seen portraits from John. Beautiful, BEAUTIFUL, dark portraits … They do reach far but the ones I saw are still very connected to the person he photographs. I did not have the impression he was trying to go tooooo far beyond this person – to transcend. But would be interesting to see him do that. I am sure he can.
John … forgive me for talking about you in the 3rd person. It is just that I got this terrible flu since last night and I just hope it is not this swinethingy … I can hardly think.
Time to go to bed.
Hope the workshopstudents are all set up with their projects now and things are rolling! It is going to be an exciting and terrific day tomorrow. Hopefully someone is there with a videocam or an iphone or both … Panos? Are you going to be there???
ERIC
good to see/read you.
Yeees.. we have to meet.
Let me email you tomorrow – if I am still alive.
Good night from Germany.
Over and out.
David
From that link:
¨I do not want to see another photo essay, multimedia or any visual on dying Africans. Never, ever again. Enough. I understand that it makes for compelling images, that it seems that the photographers cares, but it present such a distorted vision of this beautiful continent. Not every country is at war, not every African is an orphan dying of aids or malnutrition. Not everyone lives in a broken down shaft wearing nothing more than rip jeans.¨
tou-fu**in-che
now GO to sleep!
k-
Anton. Mike, Workshop people..
am trying to transcribe the interview I did with DAH yesterday and have a missing blip..what was the work from Vernazza that was shown? thank you..
Lassal..
sleep well..i never asked DAH the questions..nor did I see our prints yet. We will all be surprised :)
Great conversation…I believe it started with my question to Martin which followed David’s comment to me regarding India…Too bad I can’t join in but keep going so I can read it later! :))
Also keep in mind what I said to Martin…that he makes the ordinary exotic. He turns Wal Mart INTO Vegas.
Cath´
Yes it started with DAH´s response to you about being published here at Burn..i thought you turned it into a timely question for Martin and the conversation since then has been interesting. I particularly respect David Bowen´s response before he went nighty-night. The reason i think that Martin can turn Walmart into Vegas is because he started with Walmart from the get-go. Metaphorically speaking, that is. I would still like to see YOUR view of Santa Fe. Sans cliches which, as a resident you are uniquely able to do. And Santa Fe, because it so thoroughly markets its own cliches, would seem a particularly difficult place to dig some truth out of. But if anyone can do it, you can. And, since David has thrown down the gauntlet to you to do just that, i suspect you will.
best on your travels
Kathleen
but Vegas is a mini Walmart without shopping carts. No?
David.AH
Thanks for bringing Martin Parr to Burn.
Here’s the quote that was freshest and most inspiring to me. I’ve gotta go dig that interview up now.
“…I disguise my serious photography as entertainment in order to help it get published, as the magazine market does not much like serious documentary/ photojournalism at the moment.”
David and Anton and all Burn people..
I’ve had almost zilch connection to media and blog sites but what was like a discovery for me of the perfect in sinc combo, as I wandered down a side street by chance, hearing the rhythm and rhyme coming out of from behind that wall has been BURN. I couldn’t believe my luck when I found the inspiration you’ve injected in my veins after a couple of years of feeling lack lustre. Now got myself a scanner and spending the hours needed has been what I need; getting organized. Don’t know how you at BURN do it, fitting in so much and David, I once thought of you like Deniro and what he’s done with that southside N.Y film festival thingy but maybe your more like Scorcese, your energy levels so high. Your offers of help to all of us I hope wont over load you to much.
I wish I could offer a brilliant idea to take us all further in to the statasphere of creativity and communication but at this point all I really have to add is a huge hug and thanks for your enthusiasm and sincerity….
to all. xxx
ALL
anyone interested who hasn’t seen it before, over on my site I have a synopsis of the talk Martin Parr gave this year at LOOK3..just go to http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com and then to scribbling in the dark, Martin Parr.
DAH……………..
short of the name of the photographer whose work of Vernazza you showed the workshop group (I think that’s what you said) the interview we did is transcribed. Do you want to proof? Should I put it up just at scribbling or do you want to put it here too?
Haik
Maybe if you bring enough cash to the table the casinos would provide shopping carts. Then it would be a really honkin´ big wall-to wal-mart. But it would still only count as a Walmart photographically if you called Vegas your village. Kabish?
k-
David B
“i wonder if people go for the cliche and vegas shots because of insecurity that they will not be taken seriously when photographing stuff closer to home.”
Assuming you mean by cliche and vegas shots, pictures of traditional subjects, then I can’t agree with your supposition. I don’t think people do it because they worry they won’t be taken seriously if they do something original. Surely we all strive to be original. I think its just that doing something original is that bit harder to work out and find. People probably don’t even think about how unoriginal they are being most of the time. If it weren’t we’d all be shooting original stuff all the time. Sometimes we may not be aware that we are shooting a cliche. In fact, you say it yourself.
“it’s as difficult for any of us to crystallize our time and place.. our point of view..”
The rest of your post I agree with and would say “good post”.
For my part, I’m going to shoot India. I don’t care if someone thinks that’s the essential cliche. I think its only a cliche if you shoot the same shots that we’ve seen over and over again. Certainly I am not going there to “blame” anyone for anything. I am doing it because it interests me and there are things I want to see that I haven’t seen – I got a hint of this last time. I think its honest to shoot what interests you, as honest as it may be to shoot in your own backyard. It’s a question of finding your own voice, or eye rather. To find something to show that others haven’t already seen. That’s the challenge.
Jared said, (and Chuck had the same thought): I don’t know why Martin’s doing this really — it’s already been done.
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?paged=2
I hope that Martin would be more subtle and more interesting. I mean they are interesting but only on the surface. There doesn’t seem to be much else going on. They are pretty scary, especially the woman with the bum-length dreadlocks and yellow shorts and the guy with his shirt tied up under his man-boobs.
CIVI
I’m trying to figure out whether you’d still say “What not to love?” Would you?
I thought it was clear I was being sarcastic or facetious or…. :)
KATH :))
Love your comment. Thanks for the inspiration, motivation and for your contribution here.
ANDREA,
See you in India :)) I like what you said about it being honest to shoot what interests you.
What it boils down to for me is that the camera gives me an excuse to hang out. I’d rather hang out in India than at WalMart. Period.
Imants; “ps my vegies in the garden are not for sale, mind you the local possums usually take first choice”
Nothing that a .22 won’t fix up… Oops, I forgot they’re protected in Oz :-)
Yea we trap them and then release them at or neighbors a couple of clicks away……………….. the thing about India etc shooting there is a bit like fishing in a bucket, point shoot and the tr0phy is neatly tucked away into the SD card
Yea we trap them, shoot them, poison them and run them over in the car and there’s still too many of the buggers here in New Zealand :-)
It’s funny actually, you probably know we dump a LOT of 1080 poison in the native forest to try and get the numbers down. so many conservationists leap up and down about how bad 1080 is, but you don’t see many of them lugging traps or cyanide into the bush to do their part in getting rid of possums. (and yes I am a conservationist)
Here’s a few fun NZ possum facts… “Each night possums consume about 21,000 tonnes of vegetation (300 g wet weight per possum x 70 million possums). Each possum killed saves 109.5kgs of vegetation annually”
Aaah yes, we REALLY knew what we were doing when we imported possums here!!!
Ceausescu’s Securitate alive and well in 2009 in Bucharest:
http://www.signandsight.com/features/1910.html
Jared, Sarcasm works when you know the person who’s speaking. I think I’ve read about two of your posts before this one.
Cathy, Where are you going? I’m going from the far east to the far west across the middle with a few zigs and zags. God yes, you’ve got to wonder about someone who chooses to hang out at Walmart ;-).
I’ve been shooting around here lately, it’s not difficult to find something shootable. I went to the markets on Saturday and felt more free than I’ve ever felt pointing my camera at people there. Not a single person objected or turned away. I could turn into a fly-on-the-wall photographer after all. But that’s a different topic. I’m considering doing a series of portraits about the locals next year. It’s not as if one only does one thing.
Bucket fishing is easy if the fish you want to catch is in the bucket in the first place. There’s a lot to be said for shooting in your own back yard but I don’t think there’s a rule yet that says we all have to do that now.
no time to report in details …………… bt we just have had 5 prints up on the wall …… 30 more to go …….!!!!!!!!!!!!
………
am burned ….. need a time out !!!!
Have a good show. Have a good party.
Cathy
It’s all good, grrl..shoot what makes your heart pound and your knees go weak..after seeing the people at walmart i realize a lot of what we worry about is a bunch of hair-tearing-angst. Shoot what makes you scream for ice cream..because if there’s a shred of talent in you and you shoot long enough and passionately enough, well it has just got to stick to David’s wall sooner or later. And if not his because half his preference for published work is highly manipulated PS stuff and that’s not what you do and there’s a long line of other wannabepublishedonburn contenders, then someone else’s wall. Insist on it!! Make them see you’ve got the goods. Our number one job is to shoot our vision and our number two job is to get the world to listen. And from what i know, the greatest innovators have had the toughest time getting published: William Klein and Robert Frank are just two examples. I have no idea how long it took others but unless they were well-connected then it wasn’t overnight.
so..ok..now i’m wiped out.
thx for the thx
hugZ
kathleen
emcd and lassal. Mr schles has some nice work. His portrait work is strong.
Joining in late, Kathleen,
if you want to go to extreemes check out ANDRÉ KERTÉSZ from my window, it was all produced from confines of his apartment. Done in sad circumstances after his wife died and he withdrew from the world, but what a piece of genius.
Ian
VIVEK>>>>> how did it go? what did you shoot?
andrea – perhaps i was being a little fatuous.. and tired :o)
people tend to copy postcards.. pictures they have already seen in the news.. the public records it’s consumption in this way. in bergen during the cruise ship season there are 3 spots in the city where i can sit for an hour or more and see 4 or 5 photographers at any one time, all taking the same view which is in the brochures they booked their holiday through..
india as a case in point – there are lots of things to look at outside of the people / festivals / differences between them and us.. the more i look back at the negs from my time there the more i love the photos of tourists.. those along with the day to day of where i was living are the most interesting things captured..
the package rajestan / goa / himalaya route is interesting to me when looking at the tourists buying into the authenticity of the exoticism.. the formnula..
other than that it’s a pretty dull route to take. if the animals interest you i would guess that animals anywhere interest you.. and a project focused on that would produce some great work. i think many people have no real personal interest though, and getting the ‘sadhu with chillum’ photo is as much part of their package tour as sitting on an elephant.
tourists don’t want to see nike swishes painted onto monks robes, no matter how in-their-face the swishes actually are. recording their active and adventurous consumption of exoticism is more the point.
people want to imitate the virtually dead profession of ‘travel-stock photographer’ and seek out the views other people first noticed.. photograph that hill in bergen the way it is in the brochure and pass it off to their friends as their own.. no one will know.. apart from the other 500 people who took the same photo on the same morning.
there is nothing wrong with this of course.. courses for horses.. but it’s not photography.
what i liked about melchers africa blog post is that it carries over to other places..
in india people expect to photograph poverty / festivals / old wrinkled faces smiling and i would guess that some are at pains to avoid getting other tourists in the photos.
people often make up their minds of what to photograph before they see a place.. hunting of poverty in places like india and africa is as prolific as hunting animals.. as imants hints – it’s the same sport.. and as melcher points out it has no consideration to the effect on the place being photographed.
it puts me in mind of the north of ireland, where i have probably worked the most away from home..
i remember someone on lightstalkers asking if it was ‘safe’ to do street photography there.. people still go there to experience their first ‘conflict’ when the conflict is long over.
people there are sick to the back teeth of people dwelling on the past, when there is a vibrant, young and relevant scene growing there.. and that relates to photography being about the ‘moment’, which is 1/30th of a second in a wider time-line of ‘right now’..
photographers who are ‘concerned’ and seek out problems can often have an adverse effect on the general perception of a place.. in the case of n. ireland it is taking a very long time to alter perceptions which PJ’s have firmly ingrained in peoples minds..
after all – when the war / famine / disaster is happening, well meaning / ambitious photographers flock there to document and publicize..
when the war / famine / disaster is over, very, very few return in order to update and redress the balance..
i think many photographers make the mistake of thinking that photographing serious subjects qualifies them as being serious about their craft..
undoubtably there are also people who genuinely mean-well.. and perhaps, for them, the troubles began in their own back yard..
to the fresh snapper on lightstalkers, though – n. ireland is still a place of daily conflict when in actual fact it’s offers some of the warmest and broadminded pockets of society in europe.
god knows i need to be more concise.. i could probably have said that in 2 sentences.. why i am not a writer..
Ian
I know of that book but have never had the good fortune to see it..he’s such a fave of mine though, i’m sure it’s wonderful. Josef Sudek also took a lot of photos inside his apartment and also through windows. You couldn’t get the man to leave Prague. All his work has the poignant tang of loving familiarity. Recently a woman photographer whose name i do not recall completed a book of photos shot entirely within her apartment in L.A.
Our imagination is our world. The best artists have shown us that time and again. It’s all about vision. The rest is details.
thx, Ian :)
Kathleen
working in different places over long periods of time helps avoid the cliches.. as well as having a focus of interest..
one day, when i have the money, i want to photograph taxi drivers the world over as a way of illustrating the relative income from the job..
my late father was a taxi driver in london :o)
“Our imagination is our world. The best artists have shown us that time and again. It’s all about vision. The rest is details.”
:o)
David
It is SO funny you mentioned taxi drivers..two weeks ago i walked by a long line of sitting taxis. The drivers were waiting for fares and each had his own way of waiting. Some stood outside their taxis, others sat inside. Some were half in/half out, others were leaning heavily against the fender. I shot from the hip, had my camera loaded with fast film, pre-focused and was able to shoot each and every driver as i strolled past..from the same angle, the same distance, nothing changed from photo to photo but the driver (because the cars all look the same)..i was so pleased at these portraits, because they really were individual portraits, that i want to do it again..and perhaps again. I worry about taxi drivers here. So many are killed..it’s so awful. I have a lot of compassion for them and when i saw the scans i was so moved by their expressions of resignation, boredom, fatigue, silent strength..nothing i’m sure you don’t know since your dad was a taxi driver :))
Well goodnight all..i am going to dream of walmart people…eeks..
kathleen
David
It is SO funny you mentioned taxi drivers..two weeks ago i walked by a long line of sitting taxis. The drivers were waiting for fares and each had his own way of waiting. Some stood outside their taxis, others sat inside. Some were half in/half out, others were leaning heavily against the fender. I shot from the hip, had my camera loaded with fast film, pre-focused and was able to shoot each and every driver as i strolled past..from the same angle, the same distance, nothing changed from photo to photo but the driver (because the cars all look the same)..i was so pleased at these portraits, because they really were individual portraits, that i want to do it again..and perhaps again. I worry about taxi drivers here. So many are killed..it’s so awful. I have a lot of compassion for them and when i saw the scans i was so moved by their expressions of resignation, boredom, fatigue, silent strength..nothing i’m sure you don’t know since your dad was a taxi driver :))
Well goodnight all..i am going to dream of walmart people…eeks..
kathleen
crap..why did that post twice? ANTONNNNNNNN?!
oh well..
k/
kathleen
after dad died i spent a while traveling up to london at 5am to meet his buddies where he began his day.. sloan square.
it’s a difficult profession which definitely shortens life.. angina and other heart related problems.. problems related to pollution and stress.. he died at 53 of a heart attack.
there is a hospital in london which has a wing dedicated to them.
i often think of his profession and mine not being a million miles apart – the constant flow of new people, conversations and interesting snapshots of life.
what i’d like to do is photograph taxi drivers at home with their family – a formal portrait standing next to their relative ‘mantle piece’ of prized possessions. the idea came when i spent a week living with kishor – a rickshaw driver in dehli – in 1996.. and found that he could not afford a mantle piece, let alone possessions.
just never had the cash to throw at it.
right – packing again..
traveling north to where the sun shines even less this afternoon..
on and on.
d
David
I am worn to a nub right now but one last comment to say that i am sorry you lost your father at such a young age. Yet i am not surprised because i could see the wear and tear on the faces and body language of the drivers i shot. I think your project would be amazing..really, really. It would be such a tribute to your dad. I urge you to try it. Let me know how it goes, k? Maybe it’s something you can do a little at a time wherever you are. Not sure if you can work that way. But chip away at it. Think about it!
Oh yeah, i sent your earlier post (the one i said i was printing) to a friend of mine and she said she never thought of it that way and that your words were an epiphany..fatuous nada. I re-read them and liked them just as much as the first time.
goodnight!
kathleen
David
Travel safely..bring the sun with you..
;)
“Maybe it’s something you can do a little at a time wherever you are. Not sure if you can work that way. But chip away at it. ”
i try to shoot side projects when working abroad, yet the logistics of a trip normally have me tied to the brief i am there to shoot as shorter trips have been more common.
one day.. :o)
.. and thank you.
d
DAVIDB,
I just had a skype session with SPACECOWBOY …
he says that you father is proud of you and he loves you much … just focus and don’t loose
your dreams…hmmm…someone has to stop drinking here…
LOVE YOU MATE… may the spirits of the Universe…blah,blah…
P.S BEATE time for siesta…:)))Love
KATIE…you know …I had to quote you too…
“Our imagination is our world. The best artists have shown us that time and again. It’s all about vision. The rest is details.”
DAVIDB, KATIE …WE BELIEVE in YOU …
GOT TO GO…HAIK…is helping me with my crashed computers…
LOVE ,LOVE,LOVE all we need is BURN…
P.S BURNIANS UNITED
Before I go… check this out…
…The Emerging Photographer Fund grant was initiated by David Alan Harvey in 2008, and is awarded by the Magnum Foundation, a non-profit created by the the member photographers from Magnum Photos, Inc…Funding for the EPF has come from several private donors who have chosen to remain anonymous.
The EPF Jury for 2009 was: Martin Parr, Gilles Peress, Eugene Richards, Carol Nagar, Fred Ritchin, Maggie Steber, David Griffin, John Gossage and James Nachtwey…
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL…MR.HARVEY, EVERYDAY READERS, THE EPF Jury,EVERYDAY WRITERS, SPONSORS,
DONORS …ANTON,KERRY ,MIKEC…Bruce Davidson, Elliott Erwitt, Gilles Peress, Susan Meiselas and Chris Anderson…I copy and paste…
CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE
P.S I will be back
David you might be interested in a little known book by magda segal called London at Home published by conerhouse. If i remeber rightly there is a taxi driver in that.
Cheers
ian
A taxi movie http://www.filmcritic.com/misc/emporium.nsf/reviews/Night-on-Earth
VIVEK…
I hope you’re keeping detailed notes… when the dust settles… I’m looking forward to one (or better yet, a few) of your play-by-play for both the workshop and the gallery show… cheers…
imants – night on earth is one of the best films by jarmusch.. the clown driver.. the ‘bishop’ passangers.. brilliant..
ian – will try to find it.
d
President Barick O’Bama wins Nobel Peace Prize. I’m so proud of
the of Irish.
all,
sorry for being away (from comments) for quite sometime, but i’m back to share a music tip (please, see this as a kind of Time Out magazine “things to do”) and invite our canadian friends in British Columbia to three concerts of ‘Stockholm Lisboa Project’, a fantastic band with musicians from Sweden and Portugal, two european countries 4.000 kilometres apart from each other. if you want a short definition for their music it may well be “polska, fado and beyond”. they will be in Victoria (october 15, Alix Goolden Hall), North Vancouver (october 17, Centennial Theatre) and Kelowna (october 18, Rotary Centre for the Arts), and for a taste of their two CD’s, “Diagonal” (2009) and “Sol” (2007) and information about these and other concerts, go to http://www.stockholmlisboa.com/ and also search them at YouTube. enjoy.
David and all,
inspired by the example above and a Sean Gallagher comment i came up with an idea – how about a “burn world tour”? i’m thinking travelling exhibits and projections, sometimes linked with special events (workshops, lectures, talks, portfolio reviews, slideshows, etc.). maybe we could start with the presentations made for Look3 Festival, and a couple of other essays, available in formats we could use in places and events around the world, and even rent exhibitions – i think it was David who brought up religion as a topic when the idea of EPF first came around, but it could be families, poverty (2010 is the European Year for Combating Poverty and Social Exclusion), the emergence of the south (with 2010 FIFA World Cup in South Africa and 2014 FIFA World Cup and 2016 Olympic Games, both in Brazil) and a million other subjects. burn could be the core of small scale events, low-profile, a night out with friends, beer and photos (like in the loft sessions) and/or in association with major events like Arles, Visa, and those big cities exhibitions like Mois de la Photo in Paris, PhotoEspaña in Madrid, etc. where burn could set off as a kind of an off-off-Brodway, and before we know have one of the leading roles. i think i already wrote this before – a kind of international francishe supported by a network of affiliates. Yes, we can.
um forte abraço para todos (and a special one to DAH, Patricia, Bob Black, Panos, Herve, etc.)
carlos filipe
Wow..Obama really did win the Nobel Peace Prize.
President Barack Obama won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize on Friday in a stunning decision designed to encourage his initiatives to reduce nuclear arms, ease tensions with the Muslim world and stress diplomacy and cooperation rather than unilateralism.
White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Obama woke up to the news a little before 6 a.m. EDT. The White House had no immediate comment on the announcement, which took the administration by surprise.
The Norwegian Nobel Committee decided not to inform Obama before the announcement because it didn’t want to wake him up, committee chairman Thorbjoern Jagland said.
“Waking up a president in the middle of the night, this isn’t really something you do,” Jagland said.
“Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world’s attention and given its people hope for a better future,” Jagland said.
………………… yea just in time to send more troops to Afghanistan,each with a stick of dynamite neatly tucked away in the shirt pocket
Mr Nobel’s chair………… http://www.etrouko.com.au/lizard.htm
News has arrived here from Norway that the former junior Senator from Illinois has, for reasons I am sure sounded better in Norwegian than they would in English, won the Nobel Peace Prize, thereby causing one of the many attacks of cognitive dissonance I seem to be suffering from these days. As I understand the traditional purpose of this award, one needs to have actually done something to promote peace and harmony amongst the warring peoples of the Earth in order to receive it; yes, even Jimmy Carter actually brokered an Israeli—Egyptian peace treaty to get his Peace Prize; and as far as I can tell, the former junior Senator hasn’t done anything to promote world peace except show up at conferences and give speeches. I have nothing against showing up—Woody Allen once pointed out that 80% of success is just showing up—but just showing up, in and of itself, is not much of an accomplishment. If it were, then the Peace Prize would more properly go to the former junior Senator’s appointments secretary than to him, with honorable mentions going to the Secret Service and the staff of Air Force One. This then brings up the inevitable question of why he is getting a Nobel Peace Prize in the first place. I can’t be entirely sure about this, but I am reasonably certain that he is getting it for his perfect attendance record and playing well with others, which are very important attributes, I think, and ones that will certainly impress your average totalitarian despot no end.
I like Obama and sure he would probably deserve the Nobel Peace Prize at some time, but this is too early. There has been people waiting for Nobel prizes and never gotten them (or when they’re dead) and Obama gets one almost before going to real work. Did they fall for the hype? I think this is a shame, even though I’m a big fan Obama as said earlier.
The timing for this is incredible — who gets a Peace prize as he escalates a war. Literally as he’s planning an escalation. The world has turned upside-down. No more dumb-American jokes please… Norwegians…
It’s very puzzling. I think if I were in Obama’s position, I would turn it down.
Back to the Walmart vs India/Vegas conversation for a sec.
As far as it being the “easy” or “lazy” choice to travel to exotic locations to take photographs…
At least for myself I don’t run halfway around the world looking for things to shoot.
I was already going to India way before I became serious about photography.
All I do is live my life with a camera. I’m going to go to India whether or not I am a photographer.
SInce I’m already there, I may as well shoot! :))
Here’s an image from 2003 (?) long before I was familiar with DAH, documentary photography, cliche vs not cliche, etc. What interested me then and still does is the incorporation of modern technology into a traditional lifestyle. It will be great to discover if WHAT and HOW I see has shifted over the past several years.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30716737@N08/3291307639/
“what i’d like to do is photograph taxi drivers at home with their family”
My dad is a taxi driver. Start here!
Where you travelling to?
To photograph the same things that photographed Alvarez Bravo, Frank, Sander or… is not appropriate any more to let see which direccion the world is taking. Those things are dissapearing anyway. This doesn’t mean that is not good that some photographers document carefully dissapearing things, so the better they do. But the main question for me is, why so many people try to do that, why so many western people try to find and document traditionnel ways of live? Could it be that the reason is the desperate need for something else than our liberal-capitalist consumer society? The consequence of the fact that so many people try this, is that these same people become part of the process which destroys these traditionnel cultures. The circle is round.
Now, the other options is to document straightforward our liberal-capitalist consumer society, seriously or with sarcasm. This option is very easy. As our society is becomming a caricatural image of itself, just throw your camera in a supermarket, make a good composition together with a good moment and there you have , a funny image which pretends to be a mirror of us, consumers as we are (remember Andy Warhol?)
Those images become cult (martin Parr is the best selling photographer of Magnum), because people in the art market, smart publicity managers and the blase elite like what critisizes their conduct, without opening a road to another possible world. To open a way, one needs to go deep inside himself, under the layers consurism put on our brain, to dig in that, confront it with the world and create a new world, which opens minds if those minds are able to stand open for it. Therefore you need to have the courage of feeling dissapearing sand under your feet. As many minds are eager to be closed by consumerism and the confortable emptiness it provides, they gratefully accept sarcastic images of themselves. A bit of funny critic doesn’t do any harm anyone, does it? For one of the biggest mechanisms of liberal-capitalism to continue its game, is its ability to use the negative image of its system by throwing it on the same pile than other consumer goods.
Sarcastic images of consumer society are a sign of the impossibility of our current culture to create new visions, of its fear for poetry and imagination. Our world is getting terrifyingly ugly. The images of Martin Parr only do confirm the same processes in our mind by which we buy those consumer goods. It is old content in a new box (Andy Warhol). Just like most of the conceptual contemporary art (Marcel Duchamp). Give us something new under the sun please, not an ugly image of an ugly burger. It only ads to a feeling of disgust we already have a long time. And so it doesn’t open to new horizons and to different ways of canalizing our animal desires. Consuming burgers or consuming repetitive images of burgers, cheap jewels and other goods, is the same overfed thing. It only adds to our spiritual fatness, which has to hide the empty void deep under.
Those images confirm the way we think and behave now, the same way which brought us where we are. On the other side, images of dissapearing traditions only make us more sad. The only way out is to imagination and poetry.
Martin Parr: “I have discussed the whole issue of the declining market for magazines on a pdn interview quite recently. What I said then was that I disguise my serious photography as entertainment in order to help it get published, as the magazine market does not much like serious documentary/ photojournalism at the moment. So the ball should be placed back to photographers to be more cunning in how they promote their work and the subjects they choose. It is too easy just to knock the magazines, we are guilty too.”
Does this mean that in order to sell pictures and books (so we can make a living out of it), we have to succomb to the petrified desires of managers who carefully look at the biggest possible gains or should we try to alter these things which pervert our world at the risk of not making a living out of photography?
Documenting a dissapearing world is one thing, documenting wallmart another. But in the ground the same if there is no poetry in it.
What exactly would be the alternative to a capitalist consumer economy in the US?
Maybe President Obama can use the $1.4 mil to lobby congress to get healthcare reform passed.
you can never define “an exact alternative” because it has to be created. And creation doesnt mean just and only implement a totally rational plan on future reality. We have seen what the outcome is of that (utopist Le Corbusier his total inhuman cities or Marx and his eschatology). but this brings us to fear away from my main point.
sorry posted on wrong theme… should be at Wallmart…
dont be sorry kristof. interesting stuff.
can’t wait for the show tonight … ! just though I’d share ;-)
kristof …
i wanted to make a comment previously on this discussion, but had no time to write…
after reading yours, i dont need to rewrite… im so much with u in ideas and in spirit of the things u say.
it is a Western Culture Practice … to present the suffer of the remote worlds, and then with semi-sophistication (usually immediately perceivable) to kick the butts of our own cultural elements after we see that we spin things to disgusting levels (like consumerism).
we do not do a massive in-depth reflection, we do not really respect other cultures if it is not on the same lines of ours (business-wise, consumerism, science etc) … i mean we (the western culture) do talk about relativism, pluralism, tolerance etc so sweetly, but in fact, in our culture (or “agents in charge of our culture”) make of it a “new age” in the exact same consumeristic spirit, or otherwise, make of it a romantic and exotic journey with a holy feeling of “compassion” to those that are not like us…
Poetry … yes, especially in photography… compare a typical song to typical novel, the issue of plot.
in my work, i call it “art and idealizm” – kinda Alternative view, with indpeth reflection – suggestive and seductive perspective on the themes that interest me …
so now another point which is especially relevant to Documentary photography (africa, walmart, vegas or whatever)…
take a look at the greatest docu photographer. they were not just documenting… they were inherent part of their intellectual surrounding or at least, if not fully involved then deeply aware and interested… in fact many of them had elements and spirit on the edge close to “revolutionists”. cartier-bresson, for example, was not writing influential intellectual essays like some great french figures of his time… but in his work, he expressed about the same. with the same depth, reflection, eagerness in social conditions etc. he was talking about grand abstracts and about particular occurrences at the same time …
the good docu should not just follow the genre … it should use the photographic language and its genuine capabilities to explore the themes (events, political philosophy, social conditions etc etc)…
in addition, as i previously mentioned, an alternative positive view (suggestive and seductive) can also be a virtue of good docu work… i certainly dont think that a measure of good docu work is “who kicks the butt harder” when it comes to critics of our society or who “generates” more feelings of compassion when it comes to remote “primitive lands”…
Cross-posting from Martin Parr’s thread.
Kristof
What you wrote about is interesting but can you clarify this question a bit.
Here’s a bit that you ended off with. “Those images [ie such as Parr’s] confirm the way we think and behave now, the same way which brought us where we are. On the other side, images of dissapearing traditions only make us more sad. The only way out is to imagination and poetry.”
However, is it even possible to do that with documentary photography – to show the way forward, a world that does not yet exist. Surely to do that you have to at least work in the manner of photographers like Henson and Crewdson, those who are constructing their images in or out of a studio or even in photoshop but not trying to capture what’s already there. Surely such efforts would look like the futuristic films we saw in the 70s which are rather quaint and comic to look back on today. For all that they still comment on what fears and concerns people had at the time.
I’m not sure its documentary photography’s role to do other than show us what is, and comment on it if we can through the images. What photographer has ever done other than that?
Frankly, I’d just like to say thank you. I’ve never followed a blog sooo much… it’s incredibly interesting to see all the variables possible in photography, different styles and visions. Interesting as well to get some feedback…
I love burn, keep on truckin.
David,
It’s fantastic that the future is looking brighter! The success of burn will help a lot of new photographers like me get inspired and learn from the masters like you, Parr, Sanguinetti, and others.
Thank you very much for all you do!!
kenji
PANOS,
I was looking at the NOOR site this morning and came across a topic called the “Rock years” from Stanley Greene that I thought you would enjoy and that in some ways reminded me a bit of Venice…Different of course but similar vein…
http://www.noorimages.com/index.php?id=3399
Cheers,
Eric
Victor Ben,
i responded to you under Wallmart discussion…
SO Glad i could witness Anton sleeping
ALL – I’d like to draw your attention to an online photojournalism fiesta set up by my friends at Griffith University Photo Dept , some big names will be speaking in real time.
Speakers include Paul Fusco, Ed Kashi, Jodi Bieber, Marcus Bleasdale, Shahidul Alam, Gary Knight, Robin Hammond, Adam Ferguson, Travis Beard, Michael Coyne, Masaru Goto, Jack Picone, Megan Lewis, and more to be confirmed.
On October 15th we will connect an international community of documentary practitioners and journalists for one day, to share stories, to stimulate discussion and debate about our discipline, and to inspire each other to continue the fight for justice.
Follow the link http://cdp.edu.au/cdp/conferences-and-events
…ERIC…
:)
funny how it starts with “the Birthday Barty” photo…
Even funnier is that i met him last year in brooklyn,
we talked for quite a while for this and that and wayyyy
later Diego came and informed me:”..did u realize that u were talking all this
time to Stanley G???..”
“Yes”…i lied…;^
Party… i meant… laughing
Barty.
fresh air of big bear? those buttons arent even close :)
really laughing, Banos
Piper, welcome!!! dont go anywhere until Civi wakes up and gives you a proper glorious BURNing welcome.
Haik..:)
no really Stanley is a great guy…
plus i think he still lives in the kibbutz…
:)
PIPER TIERNEY JONES,
Welcome to the BURNLAND where everything is possible…
So GLAD you are bringing good energy!!!
as PANOS wrote:
“..STANLEY is A GREAT guy…”
like all the BURNIANS…
and GLENN …VivA the Griffith University Photo Dept …Cause we LOVE whatever has to do with
…EDUCATION !!!
B.S …oups, I meant P.S :))) HAIK the High tech BURNIAN …
http://dl.screenaustralia.gov.au/module/1085/
Imants…
cool links… :)))
CARLOS….
yours is a good idea and a reasonable conclusion…can you maybe give us some help?? whatever we do here must be done with great care…i do not want to get too big and complicated where is would be easy to make mistakes…in any case, in the next few weeks we will be making plans which could include all of which you speak…
cheers, david
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif10?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2op_eUw8CfxQE#slideshow/5391426329002575858
and since we are waiting for the student slideshow,
let be bore you a little bit with couple of Venice portraits…
click above
:)
Panos
Great as usually.
CARLOS
uma idéia fantástica mesmo!
Tô aí!
Abraço …
Panos in love …
what not to … um … LOVE!!
Thank u! Thank u! Blushing !
Ooook, so I do post some images too.
My first Holga shots!!!
Yeah, I know … But with a darkroom in mind I have to start to shoot film and I have not found “my” camera yet. So the Holga is both a cheap “in between” and a way to take the pressure out. Because it is really odd for me not to shoot digital, in the sense of having to wait for feedback. I am just not used to it. With the Holga, I thought, at least for the beginning, I can always blame the camera :-))))
http://dark.lassal.de/2009/10/10/holga/
I a looking for a WP plugin with which you could have a look at piece of film. In the sense of scrolling an image horizontally. Anybody seen anything like that?
Lassal
The whole series looks just fantastic!!! You are the master between us :)
Blame the camera, Marcin.
(thank you sooo much!)
ok.. no bullshiting… ihad no idea that holga can do this…
or is it Lassal?
:)
i really wanna blame the camera, but…
brand new world.. voila!!!
It is really a nice toy – including the possibility of using red/yellow/blue/white flash! Or multiple exposure … Imagine! I walked around with this big smile in my face…
I just wish the film was not that expensive.
And the Ilford was wrong. 125. I would have needed 400. But maybe it was the 6 years in the fridge, too …
Remember I asked you if you still shoot Velvia, Marcin? I had some left over from this trip and wanted to give it to you. I did not believe in my holga experiment. And I knew you were doing so wonderful photographs with Velvia film.
But you said you were only using digital now … and then I now kinda liked some of the weird results of this first Holga-experiment … and with the darkroom in mind … :-))))
Guess I am glad now that you did not need the Velvia whe I asked and I thus still have it here :-)))))
Panos,
if it is a good picture, blame the photographer,
if it is a bad picture, blame the camera!
Or the other way around??
Well, glad you liked it … really … :-))
Thanks.
Lassal;
Good on you! They’re great fun aren’t they? I’m just about to go into town to drop off half a dozen rolls of film shot through the Holga and an old Agfa Isoly. I bought the Isoly because new and classic Diana’s are too damned expensive, and they reckon the Diana was modelled off the Isoly (the Isoly only cost $12)
I haven’t had any processed from the Isoly yet so have my fingers crossed! But the Holga is shooting pretty nicely. There’s a three day punk gig coming up in a couple of weeks so I need to check whether the Isoly is working properly so I can use it there (along with the Holga)!
“If I had not ruined 1/3 of the film by forgetting to take the lens cover off the camera”
Or for me;
Shot at 6×6 with 645 mask in and vice versa,
Taking multiple shots on one frame because I have forgotten to wind on (damn digi habits!),
Forgotten whether I have, or have not, wound on; so wind on an extra frame just in case! etc etc…
Cheers
Lassal;
Expensive film; I’ve been shooting expired print film bought on online auctions. Mind you i did get extravagent and put a roll of Velvia 100 through the Isoly… I hope it’s working ok!
I’m thinking about buying some of that Lucky or Shanghai 100 B&W film and Kodak Ektacolour 160 to try. It’s cheap on the online auctions. The Ektacolour is just film rebadged for the Asian market. Might be worth looking at?
Lassal
certainly you knew how to use this velvias. You love the experiments and I love the results. Hope will see more holgas or pinhole images. Did you try pinhole cameras? A friend of mine did a month exposure with pinhole.
Btw, I still have about 10-15 rols of exposed 120 velvia films in my fridge from thailand. I shoot some frames with Herve in fishersmans village. After a year I hope there is any image :) Fore sure the colour is not the same, so maybe it will looks like holga pictures? Who knows :)
marcin, lassal, ross…:)
since nobody’s around , here is another link from a dirty ass Venice Fight/ STABBING…
here it goes:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/VeniceFightTifs?authkey=Gv1sRgCPPVp839p_q6FA#slideshow/5391445936267770594
ROSS
thanks for the info … yeah, I definitively will have a look at some of these auctions now!
The point is really that these were my very first 5 rolls of film with the Holga. And I was not expecting a positive outcome of it. Otherwise I would have shot much more! Damn, the landscapes would have looked extraordinary in it! Especially if you put the wrong distance in. It would have gotten completely painterly. Now I just hope to get back there eventually to complete this :-))
What helped me a lot was the demos they have for the different film types:
http://microsites.lomography.com/filmshop/slide
goto “view details”
They are expensive! But I did not know back then …
Also probably everybody but me knows the look&feel of these films, so this site was really important for me to decide on what to buy. Especially because I did not have time to research further and I was hoping to get the package from Vienna before my departure to the US. So I bought everything together: camera +films.
I guess that now I will really sit down and try to find cheaper material. Now I have the time.
I like the idea of the Isoly … crossing my fingers that it works for you!! It is probably going to be amazing on a punk gig! :-) Please share the images with us afterwards? I am so curious … :-)
I got around the winding problem, because from the start I would always wind directly after taking a picture. But I could not get used to the lens cover … :-))))
Panos
I am glad you still working on venice stories. For sure you have unique style.
For you and Lassal and all who like unsharp photos a link
http://www.agencevu.com/stories/index.php?id=712&p=10
Thanks Marcin…
its not that i have a ” style”..
its just that im old and my camera is
not autofocus either ( barely reaches 2500 iso)..
ohh i wish i had a markVIIIIIIIIII with a long Tokina
12-25000mm f4.6-6.4….
:))
:)
Panos
this looks like a dance, like capoeira … You know capoeira? It was a kind of martial arts disguised as dance (including the music) that a group of slaves developed in Brazil before 1888 when they finally got freed. Obviously they were not supposed to train any martial arts, but nobody thought it was a problem for them to dance. So they came up with this very clever solution.
Nowadays Capoeira is quite fancy, you even find groups here in Germany training in the parks, as a type of sport. Very strange for me to see this kind of globalization.
Back to your pictures … they did not really stab each other, did they???
Panos,
I am with Marcin here … it is YOU that shows in the pictures…
And that is good to. Your pictures are as real as you are.
(and you always seem to be at the right place at the right time, too)
laughing…Lassal… u r very very observative…:))))))))))
yes.. this is a brazilian cap…:)
well done…
Marcin …
thanks for the link …
:)
Panos
really??!
cool!! :)))
@Lassal: 120 film shouldn’t be expensive, if you’re shooting with a holga anyway I’d just buy it out of date and pay not more than £1 a roll (I usually buy fresh film for about £1-2 a roll, though)
JKaranka
thanks. Good to know that this can be found.
I will be looking for some online resources …
online store or similar.
:)
(guess you do not say “online resource”)
Lassal,
ps. Capoeira is credited as being one of the influences for breakdance/hip hop.
I took a Capoeira class long ago when I was doing a lot of hip hop. It’s hard!
Cathy
you took Capoeira classes? Wow.
It IS hard. And you need a good sense of equilibrium amongst other things I do not have.
:)
I am impressed!
It was just ONE class so don’t be too impressed! :))
I studied a lot of dance but even at my strongest Capoeira was not for me!
Oops. Just one comment under the essays …
I messed up. Sorry.
ok. time out for me now too.
Gute Nacht from Germany.
C’mon Panos, you gotta learn how to pre-focus, guess/focus. Age is no excuse there lad. And only ISO 2500?
OK, time to upgrade. I’m sure someone would happily trade that clunker M8 of yours for a shiny new Canon 5d, and give you some change.(:
CATHY…
you took Capoeira class?? cool..yes, hard….
LASSAL…PANOS…
thanks for the so so natural work from both of you…two of my favorite photographers….
cheers, david
Concrete jungle where dreams are made of,
There’s nothing you can’t do,
Now you’re in New York!!!
These streets will make you feel brand new,
the lights will inspire you,athje
Let’s hear it for New York, New York, New York
…. will update /// stuff frm the workshops soonest …………… need a break from the whirlwind …. gathering my thoughts ……………. till thn .burned vivek
David,
have you seen the submitted la familia abrazada essay yet?
WHAT NOT TO LOVE …
when VIVEK can write poems
then Not even the sky is the limit !!! love to VIVIEK …
New York,New York,New York
***CAPOEIRA is an Afro-Brazilian art form that combines elements of martial arts, games, music, and dance. It was created in Brazil by slaves brought from Africa, especially from present day Angola some time after the 16th century.
CAN I DANCE NOW??? LOVE,love,love …all we need is BURN
MR. HARVEY,
Can I be your favorite Civilian ???…laughing hysterically …
P.S No need to reply… due to extreme working conditions :)))
Back to our regular program …What are you “cooking” ???
I meant shooting … —>)
NO shooting since Sept. 20th. It’s ITCHING. But as we ‘ve got to do everything ourselves these days: mastering (?) Final Cut… tchogh kbal (headache)…
MR.JOHN VINK,
Welcome back…
I google you and oime …YOU are such an inspiration to the BURNIANS here…
Like MR.HARVEY and MR.PARR and …others…
P.S for the headache … your energy level might be down…Just breath and smile…
or come over to Greece…olive oil, raki, chicken soup…everything organic…
What not to LOVE !!!
I posted a link to some photos last night too… apparently on the wrong page… oh, well…
Lassal, I really liked the pics of the empty swimming pools in the desert…
Panos seems to be in love indeed…
John Vink…
Just went through the latest version of the pdf dummy of your coming book…
http://johnvink.com/Advocacy/KRTrial7.pdf
Amazing!!!
As one philosopher once wrote :
“Don’t come close…COME CLOSER”.
BURN is The place to BE…
P.S Today we dance ZORBA style …Capoeira !!!
THODORI,
I keep chasing you like a TOM’S tumbleweeds…:))) VIVA
MIMI MOLLICA
it has been a long time I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your clear and structured website.
LASSAL,
you won’t believe that…I thought that you are a male and that MIMI is a female…
Not that it’s really matter …!!! :)))
REIMAR,
how are you ???…I LOVE the way you embrace the changes in life …
cause you are BURNING so high UP !!!
CIVI
actually … I believe it! :)
I’ll try hard for my next life :))))
I lOVE YOUR German HUMOR and yes LASSAL
I love your website …as I said before…It is clear, it has a point …
little too “German” for my Greek” spirit …
but
Credit When Credit is DUE. VIVA !!!
THODORIS
great link thanks for sharing!
I for my part love to walk through BBC online radio Jazz program – especially late at night when I still have to work.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/jazz/
and late junction
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tp52
Looks like civilian has been seen in the vegetable aisle with a meat tray tucked under the arm
VIVA GERMANY !!! VIVA EUROPE !!! VIVA NORTH and SOUTH AMERICA !!!
Stay strong Philippines !!! What’s UP AUSSIES !!!
I will BE back
IMANTS,
Mate, see you soon…my mate…see you soon …BBQ on ME
CIVI
we do not have humour… we are idealistic romantics with a depressed note and a dark past.
:-)))
If you ever have time, PLEASE write me an email clarifying “little too “German” for my Greek” spirit …”
That would be really very, very sweet of you. Thanks.
info (at) lassal (dot) de
and CIVI … thanks for being here. You always cheer things up. That is invaluable!
Civi…
It turns out that, when you’re sleep deprived, you should keep away from guillotines… thankfully I’m ok… your attention to detail is impressive…
Lassal…
Thanks for the bbc links…
LASSAL,
I am not good with e-mails …keys are ready though …
Come over.
Clarification too “German” :
I love
1) there is order.
2) clear point
3) nice presentation (GordonL)
” Greek ” spirit:
1) There is no order
2) whatever point
3) nice presentation (free style)
P.S BURN is BURNing
THODORIS,
we can’t loose any BURNIANS …not now !!!
BURNIANS…where are you ???
P.S Got to go…raining again
CIVI
:)
thanks.
There are keys for you here too, btw.
Anytime.
lassla – no time right now.. internet on the road type-thing… thanks for email, which i will reply tomorrow..
think am i the most northerly of burn people right now.. need a fire.. north sea wind is biting.
ouch.
RAFAL…
no, not yet…of course, i will take a close look probably later in the week..but, i know from Anton, who was here NYC for three days, that all is well…i will let you know prior to publication..
Lassal….love the holga images! Looks like such fun. I have 4 rolls of tri-x I shot on the old K-1000 I bought of ebay…don’t even know if the camera functinos properly, seems like it should….when the roll that’s in it is finished I am taking it to be developed straight away. I hope I have at least 1 or 2 shots per roll….
CIVI….key is under the mat in case you (or anyone!) come through Lexington…Keeneland is racing now, boys in coats and ties and girls in dresses and hats….and next year we have the World Equestrian Games, the Olympics of the horse world…first time they’ve ever been held outside of Europe…
DAH…..as you are planning in the coming weeks, if this region fits the path for a gallery show/workshop/event please consider it….I can and will volunteer to be the point person locally….a good artistic community, a large university, an excellent fina arts school, downtown weekly art events, gallery hops, etc…let me know what criteria you need for success and I will see if it is here….
All iPhone users……you can download photoshop for the iPhone for free right now….search for it in the app store…doesn’t do a huge amount, but can be useful….and the price is right!
Monday is here, all…let’s boogie. :)
good light,
A.
CIVILIAN…
of course, you are my FAVORITE CIVILIAN…hugs, hugs,…extreme working conditions never preclude answering you….
cheers, david
DavidB
No hurries. No worries.
Take your time please.
I’ll owe you one.
If you ever get too cold up there, come down here … Living at the river Main. Does not get that cold usually, does get foggy though.
Or we meet in Scotland … I have to take some sheep pictures. Anybody knows how one does take sheep pictures without them running off?? :)
… guess I will need the ultimate sheep treat.
What could that be?
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=jayamartin&target=PHOTO&id=5391414174902380418&aid=5391412624736201297&authkey=Gv1sRgCKOu8au7wqaEDA&feat=email
workshop phoo graphs
lassal – they are beautiful..you have to throw away the cap – such a pain in the butt that thing – your holgas are so free, i took some over vacation but i like yours better, the way you made light drawings with multiple exposures, very original, but all of them lovely.
how exactly did you turn your notebook into a light table?
ERICA…
now surely you must have the most complete report of all regarding events at Burn headquarters…after all, you sat in on a class and survived the friday night event…or, did i miss something you did already?? how can i keep up??
cheers, david
anybody has photos from the burn show ?
erica… had a look at your website… u r fantastic… there is some arbus spirit in your theme evaluation and your aesthetics but with current and individual twist… loved
how u make light-able from screen ? easy, prepare a white paper of the same size (resolution) of the screen… if u r in a good mood, write “JUST” in the corner… open it with a simple app like “preview” and thats it… i also do it for fast draft scans – to see the real negative.
DAH
I got a migraine right after and am just stammering to my feet this morning after many hours of hell..indeed i will write up something as soon as I can…
I did manage to transcribe our interview..should I email it to you, post here now or post only on scribbling on my site and link to it?
victor..
Patricia posted photos here
http://patricialaydorsey.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post.html
and here
http://patricialaydorsey.blogspot.com/2009/10/more-from-burn-gallery-exhibitloft.html
and vivek posted workshop photos a couple of posts up
and thank you sincerely..my latest work which is mostly shot in 35mm is not on my site yet is definitely a departure, and I hope it will please you as well..am working hard to get it ready to show here on burn, dah and I need to edit still down from 275 photos in my wide edit, but it wont be too long now, just have to find time together/ skype
ERICA…
you have too many migraines…i am sure you have been to a doctor….take care…
i was not pushing you at all, just curious and figured i missed something…relax…take it easy…
cheers, david
EMCD,
Did you get my e-mail? rest and get well and when you have the time please write back if you have the time. No hurry!
I appreciated all the pics so far, but as it was an exhibtion 3 or 4 simple high res shots of the walls would’ve been nice. Especially when your half way across the world and can’t take part even though you want to :)
DAH ..
any thoughts on the interview?
yes, just went again last week to the doc, she dispassionately said there was nothing new to try, unless i want to get hooked on vicodin..I’ll pass. I know you weren’t’ pushing, just keeping you informed :)
martin, I did..will write
ERICA
notebook into lighttable:
1. open a new browserwindow and fit to screen if you want (they usually are white)
2. flip the open notebook so that the monitor lies on the table/floor/bed whatever – you might want to secure it with a pillow or book so it does not fall over.
3. place a sheet of transparent paper on the monitor to diffuse the light (important if you do not want to have a moiree effect)
4. place the film stripes onto the light surface
5. take photographs.
if the film is very dark, like some of mine were, then it might be good to use a tripod or something to fix the camera for a longer exposure. You would not want to use flash for this and, as you can see on some of my frames, it does get out of focus quickly.
I then took the b&w negatives and inverted them in photoshop. I am not trained yet in reading these things as negatives. So this for me went superfast and easy and regarding with what camera you make the pictures it gives you a good solution/resolution.
Remember to turn all the light sources off in the room or turn the notebook so they do not cause reflections.
ERICA
do you have (very) low blood pressure?
@ vivek… i saw your link and tried to open it before asking for photos in my comment, but it doesnot open… it is blank… problem on my side or your side ?
@ thanks erica, and patricia
275 for final edit ?! reduce… something like 100, with up to 25 that feels keys to u… it will be easier for orientation and final selection… if on computer, the alternative frames are always nearby anyway.
blood pressure is normal
275 is wide edit..we made a tight edit of 15, but there will be an edit of 100 or so for the book, maybe 40 for a mm piece..we will see..15 months of work there, so the pickin is hard…looking at the 275 dah said there were only a few he’d throw out in general, which is good regarding the images, but it becomes more important to figure out which way to tell the story
ERICA
I have had migraines throughout my childhood. Almost daily. My parents went to all kind of doctors with me and they attached me to every mashine you can think of. But they found nothing.
It was only as a young adult, when a (good) person at the drugstore, refused to sell me my daily dose of aspirine claiming I would ruin my kidneys if I went on like this.
She asked me this simple question: do you have low blood pressure? I said that in fact I have always had very low blood pressure. She gave me something agaist that and I have not had that kind of headache since.
Sounds so simple … but no doctor ever made the connection.
And I felt as if reborn.
There are so so many possible reasons for headaches/migraines, the low blood pressure would have been the easiest to solve. Too bad.
Get well soon.
Lassal,
Any thoughts on where you might have seen this essay? I can’t think of where it would have been shown.
ERICA
I am really looking forward to see this project of yours …
DAH
I figured out a possibility to prepare the postcard project as an essay for BURN – which is good, because up to now I had not seen a way it could work. But I will need some time to prepare this.
2 months minimum. I need to learn some new software before I start. But that is fine, because I have to learn it anyway.
I know you have asked several times for me to submit the postcard project for BURN … but that was before you got all this great material from all over the world for the EPF. So I would just like to know if you are still interested, then I would start with the preparations.
Cheers
BRIAN
no … I do not remember, sorry. I keep navigating quite erratically through the net, following links in all kind of directions. But I do remember how the site looked like. If I see it again, I will know and I willl tell you.
But as you noticed I was not the only one who has seen your essay around … Jim mentioned it too … maybe he has kept better track?
Jim?
Sorry, I do not remember, but I guess it could have been on Brian’s site. Only remember seeing it before.
It has been on my site since I initially “finished” it. As the edit changed, I did re-up it. The final, final version was resubmitted a little over week ago, and that’s the version that’s on my site now.
I definitively saw it somewhere else. Was a completely different way of navigating through the pictures. And I do not know if there was sound … but then I do not always have my headphones on …
MR.HARVEY,
You are in the mind of all the BURNIANS…may all the good spirits be with you and with your family
don’t forget Socrates …I am sending good energy :)))
Thank you.
LASSAL, DAVIDB,
I see that KEYS are flying around… the UNIVERSE.
BURNIANS …we are becoming UNIVERSAL…
MR.JIM …Your key is ready !!!
EMCD,
when you will feel that an episode of migraine is coming :
1) eat a fat meal
2) have only one glass of wine
3) after one hour …have intercourse ( vigorous) to get out all the bad energy and the toxins…
P.S KATIE, DAVIDB,MY GRACIE…I need my BURNIANS …Over …OVER???
LOVE YOU ALL…raining very hard in the GREEKLAND
Civi, Are you asking Erica out on a date?
DAH
how can i keep up??
—————————
You have to accept the effects of age, David, but VIAGRA maybe? :-))))
PS: I was not going to let this one pass, David, you shoulda known….ahahahha.
BRIAN,
ERICA is a beautiful, hard working lady with good manners and values
and since I am very confident of my charm and my charisma …
why not???
BURNIANS, all of you …will you go out with me ???
P.S come on … BURN is THE ONLY place to BE…:)))
will you go out with me ???
————————-
sure, just tell us what to love and what not to love!
PS: My last sexual innuendo until….David goes to Thailand! ;-)
Settle down please, Erica is married and happily so.
HERVE,
You are my first “Kibbutz” BURNIAN… I have declare my admiration from day one…:)))
I don’t like sycophants,superfluous and narrow-minded people
“Poetry is nearer to vital truth than history.”
Plato (Ancient Greek Philosopher He was the world’s most influential philosopher. 428 BC-348 BC)
WHAT to LOVE and WHAT not to LOVE..I see no dichotomy …
therefore…I won’t forsake my love for all of you !!!
VIVA EMCD,
I will be back …
Goodnight from raining Greece .
CMA..
this one quote from you sums up everything i know about you..don´t know how you do it..or how you believe it and then live like you believe it but hope you won´t be-leaving us anytime soon:
¨WHAT to LOVE and WHAT not to LOVE..I see no dichotomy …
therefore…I won’t forsake my love for all of you !!!¨
all my love and respect, Civi:
kathleen
Brian
I too have seen your essay before. Too spooky. Maybe there has been a tear in the fabric of space-time.
Been doing a google search for it, and have not been able to find where it might have been shown. I regularly tweet photos of the day, which probably included some of these images. Perhaps there?
I have an idea –
I am working on writing up the Robert Frank talk –
some of the questions from the curators were quite compelling, but I found there was a lot left unasked. I am going to draft a couple questions myself, and see if I can get them answered by the man himself. Very long shot I know, and this will take some time for sure, but..
if you have a well thought out respectful question you would like asked of Robert Frank, email it to me and possibly I will be able to ask it of him.
Maybe this will become the model for some of the interviews I hope to do, some q’s fro me and others from you all..
For now, it is an experiment. If you are game, i am at erica at ericamcdonaldphoto dot com
ERICA: You are THE Burn scribe! Thank you for all for all of your transcriptions/summations…
I hope that your migraines become fewer and far between. I had them quite often as a child, and they have lessened in severity and frequency as I aged, but my wife has them very often and has seen several neurologists, etc. without lasting relief. I can definitely sympathize with your situation…
ANDREW B.: I just read that you are in Lexington! I’m just down the road in Somerset, and would love to lend you a hand if DAH brings something our way. I’m just a civilian, but would love to help out!
ALL…
you know Civi is a woman right?? (i think)
CIVILIAN…
i will be going to see my mother in about 10 days….i will tell her you say hello from Greece..she will like that a lot…
hugs, david
Erica and all,
The documentary: An American Journey: Revisiting Robert Frank’s “The Americans” (2008)
has just opened in Santa Fe.
I’m leaving town in a couple of days, hope I have a chance to see it.
I’ve read that Robert Frank does not appear in the film so I’d like to hear what his thoughts are about it.
Thanks!
ps If anyone here on burn has seen the film I’d like to hear your thoughts as well.
Erica, its definitely a migraine and not a tension headache? Often people make the mistake of calling tension headaches migraines. Such people tend to stress too much or put themselves under pressure.
I look forward to reading your transcription and interview with Robert Frank.
yes, they are definitely migraines. the full on classic variety. thanks all for your concern..
Erica, you are not alone. It’s amazing how many women (ALWAYS women) I know who suffer from this.
Wish I had something to suggest for you :((
I “submitted” a Robert Frank question…above.
DAH…..
shoot…I fell down the Frank rabbit hole – was supposed to call Andrew S back..I’d like to join you in the morn, but 8:30 is early and am not sure I can get there on time ..how long might you have to talk?
Just wanted to drop a line congratulating Adrian Sanchez-Gonzalez for winning the Eddie Adams and Nikon 10k scholarship today at the Barnstorm…
Adrian’s a friend and was a shooter here at Pierce College just a year or so ago when I got here. Pierce is just a little community college in Southern California.
Pierce College, not W. Kentucky, not Mizzou…
Nice job.
just testing….. Morning CMA !
MR.HARVEY,
“Different though the sexes are, they inter-mix. In every human being a vacillation from one sex to the other takes place, and often it is only the clothes that keep the male or female likeness, while underneath the sex is very opposite of what it is above.”
Virginia Woolf (English Modernist Writer. Committed suicide at age 59. 1882-1941)
hmmmm….
PLEASE, don’t forget to tell her …THANK YOU and I LOVE YOU…I know,SHE will get it :)))
It’s not only from Greece BUT from all the BURNIANS… worldwide !!!
ALL,
you know MR.DAH is a sycophant ..???.( i think)
Damnit …funniest ever :)))
KATHARINA,
where have you been ??? Welcome back… I see new photos …VIVA !!!
BURNIANS are BURNing …
P.S KATIE …where is my surprise ??? you know how Civilians are…
MR.HARVEY,
PLEASE, don’t forget to tell your MOTHER …THANK YOU and I LOVE YOU…I know,SHE will get it :)))
It’s not only from Greece BUT from all the BURNIANS… worldwide !!!
Now, enough with the Civilian and back to the regular program …
P.S how someone can improve his/hers EDITING skills ???
CMA,
have been around…. and you ?
KATHARINA,
I am all over the Universe…i traveled for a while but now I am back in the Greekland… I had a BURNing
family …oh, by the way…I have good news… the BURNing family got assistance from the goverment …
Well now…
I have to put the azaleas on the windows,more pillows on the floor,more light for your photo editings, some red wine on the table, cook patsa,clean the toilet…cause I ‘ve heard that some BURNians pretty soon will be coming over!!! LASSAL, ANDREWB, PANOS,KATIE, DAVIDB…BOBB, etc, etc…
P.S where is MR.PETE M. and MR.DAVIDG and another DAVIDB…hmmm…
KATHARINA, I LOVE to hear traveling stories…as I said before …I TRAVEL through your PHOTOS !!!
Can I say it???
I have to say it…
WHAT NOT TO LOVE …hmmm…am I missing a verb all this time…???
AKAKY…
I count on you.
and VIVA JARED and
VIVA Pierce College of Southern California …
and VIVA VIVEK and New York
and Alaska,…ok enough…
P.S Viva Education …and please eat and drink with moderation…
LOVE U ALLLLLLLLLLLLL
Do you know how to edit ??? cause I have problem…
Before I go…I am calling all the BURNIANS from AFRICA to proceed in the TIME OUT aisle !!!
I need BURNIANS from all over the Universe…North Pole, South Pole…
oups…if it’s OK with the BURN headquarters ???
cause sometimes LESS is MORE…
Civi
You must be smoking something tonight.
Anton
Next Tuesday night on ABC television (in Australia) “Foreign Correspondent” is showing a story on the Yakuza family. It’s about their child pornography activities. Thought you might be interested, though I don’t know how you could get to see it without someone sending you a taped copy. Check the website. Abc.net/tv or just google Foreign correspondent. I can’t offer to do it for you since I don’t have a video player or CD recorder. But I’m sure if you really want it, you will find a way.
CMA,
hope your family is ok now ?
Thanks for traveling through my photos ! I am sure the people in them will appreciate :):)
ANDREAC,
You can borrow my CD…where are you in the Universe???
By the way, I am smoking BURNing brain cells …hi,hi
and KATHARINA… I wish for this family to find their way…But
I grew from that experience …and yes HERVE …I found out… What I don’t LOVE…
I don’t LOVE ungrateful souls…
Please, BURNIANS …don’t forget to say THANK YOU
…in whatever you do in life …hmmm…
Therefore …THANK YOU ALL…I got to go…Can you edit me NOW:)))
Anton the ABC has a site called iView which is about catchup/missed programs with the Foreign Correspondent episode is available on the next day and is on line for about 2 weeks http://abc.com.au/iview/#/catchup
I will send a link next week to remind you if I remember
Had a nice suprise today. On my desk was ‘Retrospective’-Antanas sutkus. Great Lithuanian Photographer.
Spent the weekend re-calibrating stuff, browsing at the artfair (Thodoris’s prints look glorious in real life) and bought Margaret M de lange ‘daughters’ and Phillip Jones Griffiths ‘vietnam peace’. Saw lots of nice photography…and lots of pictures. Packing cameras and kit for five days in cyprus tommorow.
It had better be sunny :)
john
Civi, Thanks for the offer. I guess it’s not needed now though.
JOHNY,
May the travel spirits be with you…
according to my Civilian data you will be fine in Cyprus…
http://www.cyprus-weather.com/
THODORIS,
don’t forget the raki …and maybe some patsa or souvlakia for the fellow BURNian:)))
P.S by the way MR.GLADDY…say hello to YIANNI (the musician)…your friend…if I am not mistaken
from Greekland !!!
and for the American BURNIANS,
what did you shoot during your COLUMBUS weekend ???
More mixed martial arts fighting.
CMA,
let’s hope they find their way !
best from Chinaland !
KH. Really like your work. Chinese punk stuff is great.
john
ALL…
i know many of you are curious about the Burn gallery in New York …who was shown at the event, what was sold , and our plans for the future….
Anton is now designing an elegant Burn Gallery page for us now so that some who want to secure a print online may do so…all who were exhibited here in New York will be properly listed if they so wish and their work made available here on the Burn online gallery…
20 year old Yalda Pashai from Toronto sold two prints at $300. each!!! you may remember her striking picture published here on Burn…please search if you do not remember….Mike Young and Elliott Erwitt also made sales …so, three of the four sales from this one event were from the photographers here on Burn…we are scheduling more sales oriented events , with specific collectors invited in the near future…
the friday night event was all wrapped around my workshop grand finale and prints sales were incidental to that event…however, i think you know that Joseph Koudelka, Antoine d’Agata, James Nachtwey, and Alex Webb were here for the show…there is no doubt in anyone’s mind who was here that in some way this “opening” had the feeling of authentic artistic movement…humbly historic actually…well, ask somebody besides me!!
of course, i plan to have more photographers here on Burn represented for the next show….we had to scramble fast for this one, but we will come up with a proper way for artists to submit in the future…
for those of you who sent prints on time and in good order, many many thanks…they are safe, secure and hanging beautifully on the loft walls right now….if some of you want your prints returned now, we will do so…but, i recommend you leave them with us for awhile anyway….more prints sales will happen i am sure….if you want to see how your print is hanging, just send me an email and i will take a picture with my iphone and text it to you….
ok, your patience please for the next two weeks….i will now go to my home for a handmade book seminar and then to Mexico and returning here to new york around Nov 6 when we will have another print sales event…
i will keep up with comments as best i can…the posting of essays, singles, etc. will be as per normal…that is if “normal” is a word that can ever be used in the context of me or anything i do!! …smiling….
cheers, david
Hi John,
thanks ! Like your portraits too ! ( spent some time on your websites ages ago )
..sorry: website
DAH…
My print is yours.
If it sells, it sells. If not, you can either keep it yourself or offer it as a gift to anyone of those who have been supporting Burn so far.
Thank you for including me in the show. I really believe that what you do here (not only the gallery) will someday be part of the history of photography. I feel both humbled and proud in being a part of it—even if in a very small way and from a great distance.
Also, a big *thanks* to all the guys who did the actual legwork to put the show together… you guys rock…
John…
Thanks for the promotion… :)))
As for the weather here, it’s still summer… especially in comparison to London…
AKAKY: Civi, the proper usage is what is not to love. However, what is is usually shortened to what’s, so what’s not to love is correct.
AKAKY IRL: You really are a pedantic bastard, aren’t you?
AKAKY: Leave me alone, I’m not having a good day. I’m stuck in this dump until eight tonight.
AKAKY IRL: Jeez, sorry to hear that, guy. Pulling the late shift sucks big time.
AKAKY: Yes, it does.
AKAKY IRL: You’re still being a pedantic jerk, though.
AKAKY: Yeah yeah yeah, so I’ve heard.
AKAKY IRL: Hey, guy, if I don’t tell you these things, who will?
AKAKY: My mother, my brothers, my niece, my sister in law, my ex-sisiter in law, my future sister in law and her kids, my boss, my coworkers, the people I am allegedly here to help, the mailman, the guy at the camera store where I get my black and white film developed, the monsignor down at the church, almost any nun in the area you care to talk to, my next door neighbors, my doctor, my dentist, my podiatrist, my former teachers, the guy who picks up my trash, Mr. Harvey, although he is polite enough not to say so, and my brother’s dog.
AKAKY IRL: You bear a heavy burden, bubba.
AKAKY: Yes, I do.
AKAKY IRL: Tough shit.
AKAKY: Thank you. Your empathy for my plight is duly noted.
AKAKY IRL: That’s what I’m here for, dude.
AKAKY:
DAH…
You have mentioned that as a result of the success Burn has had so far, you’ve been overwhelmed with submissions… adding to that your very tight schedule at the moment (and the coming month or so,) I imagine that now is not the best time for “a friend of mine” to submit a couple singles, right?
Thodoris:)
always a Good time for Good photos…
Everyone.. Plz submit..:)
what IS not to love?
Accordian the Acacyan dictionary:)
2:32 in Venice beach.. Big storm …
I’m here ( of course )…
Light is eerie, spooky.. Feels like a tsunami is coming..:(
I’m here.. waiting…
I am just back from the Eddie Adams workshop and I recommend all those who have never applied to apply next year! This was the last year I could do it according to the regulations and so I just finally applied. It was pretty sweet hanging out with likes of MaryAnne Golon, Jamie Wellford, Michael ‘Nick’ Nichols, Gary Knight, Tom Kennedy, David Griffin, Gerd Ludwig, Phil Bicker, Nadja Masri, etc. etc. etc.!
Oh! I forgot to mention Platon! Yes, we were both getting coffee at the same time and so I spoke with him for 5 minutes!
THODORIS…
many thanks for your print offer…if your print sells, then the proceeds will go to the EPF…if not, it will grace the wall of our Burn gallery/office….
cheers, david
what IS not to LOVE !!!
Thank YOU AKAKY !!!
BURNIANS …if you don’t BURN here…I hope that you are BURNing shouting or editing…
therefore …
PEACE, BURN and PHOTOGRAPHY !!!
P.S VIVA ACADEMIANS …and we have great academians here in BURN…
PANOS,
are you still in Venice…waiting for the tsunami???
ROSSY…you were so politically correct …few days ago…
WHAT ARE YOU THINKING,mate ???
anyways…We have beautiful tsunamis in Greece too…over !!!
Back to our “NORMAL” program…smiling all the way to work :)))
LOVE YOU AND SAFE TRAVELS ( KATIE, DAVIDB,MY GRACIE…BURNBUDDIES…SPACECOWBOY…
PHOTOPHILOSOPHERS, BURN SPONSORS,BURNIANS …be safe out there)
ANDREA –
sorry for the late reply… traveling…
thanks for the tip. i’ll keep an eye on it. i know Foreign Correspondent puts the shows online afterwards, so i hope they’ll do this one too
cheers
ALL –
does anyone know the title & publisher of the upcoming book by Antoine D’Agata?
it’s due to arrive this week, but i have no clue as to title and/or publisher, and no info on the M site…
thanks
a
Hi Anton,
maybe… Agonies d’Antoine d’Agata chez Actes Sud, novembre 2009 http://www.actes-sud.fr/auteur.php?id=4452
xo!
audrey… yes that’s the one… thank you!
bises xx
AUDREY,
it goes like this :
**puits – le travail réalisé. vous êtes étonnant. baisers à la famille !!!
**well done job. you are amazing.
kisses to the family !!!
***les mêmes pour vous Anton. merci
***the same for you Anton.
thank you
ANTON ,
a philosopher once wrote “…BURN does not exist without Anton…!!!”
P.S What IS not to LOVE !!!
Back to our NORMAL program …
DAVIN…
and the pictures you made??? please send a link
BACK once again..
CIVILIAN became a woman.. well.. i guess we all do..
‘pink moon gonna get you all, cause it’s a pink moon.. yeah a pink moon..’
BJARTE
not had time to look – why not post your weblink here and see what the folk here say?
some are nice.
LASSAL
a quick reply sent – might be a jumble.. was written so quickly.. ask if it is :o)
DAH
sorry – not been here to skype.. will switch it on now..
yes.
RIGHT THEN.. left.
david
PATRICIA KISSED ANTON>>>
don’t wash that cheek anton..
JOHN G
good luck in cyprus.. or at least better luck than i had in beeeefa… mentol.. wikkid..
let me know when the parcel arrives.. the polaroid case arrived today from england – will send on if you need it.
WELCOME BACK our blue-eyed son !!!
DAVIDB, Civilian is male and female…
but no pink in my agenda yet …!!!
You seem a very hard to Skype …
P.S what did you bring back from the Cold for Tor Capa and Beate??? sweaters :)))
DAVID B
thanks so much … got your email!!
:-)
Will get back to you with additional infos later.
i brought them back.. them..
we were all a little shivering family unit..
pleasure lassal.. tis jumbled.. also – ask john G, i think :o)
DAH SAID:
“ALL…
you know Civi is a woman right?? (i think)”
I so wish I had seen this before – I wanted to remind you of your your gender sensing abilities with Lassal!
Civi, seems to know so much about everything! Civi, tell us about your self!
JASON,
YOUR WORLDWIDE ASSIGNMENT :
“capture” your favorite Civilian in action…then you will know whatever is needed to be known
about me…:))) farting in action …sorry …I forgot …the bar has been raised
P.S Psst…J, I have access to your websites…that’s why I LOVE YOU ALLL…
and it’s not fair …but I am just a plain Civilian with the same fears,hopes …as you…
MY PHOTOPHILOSOPHERS !!!
CMA,
you are a woman ? really ?
FROSTFROG
I agree with your argument about the texture of life is always switching around us and so on… Combining b&w and colour within projects aren’t necessarily bad in all cases in my opinion, but in Talias case I think she would gain much more from focusing on one of them. The story is already quite vague and it messes it up when it’s not visually connecting either.
EVERYBODY (if you have time to spare)
Please click me and let me know what you think about my photographs. (My fear is that there is too much diversity going on at the moment.)
DAH:
I’ll send you a link tom my EAW photos in a few days, but they weren’t so good :) I was on the sports team and had to learn to use lights and soft boxes etc.! I can hardly keep up right now! Am back at my mother’s in Western Massachusetts now and then will fly from JFK tonight to Bucharest for a Friday morning portrait assignment for the Chronicle of Higher Education!
Best,
Davin
I thought many of you might be interested in this blog:
http://vivianmaier.blogspot.com/
At a Chicago estate sale, this gentleman purchased 30-40,000 negatives and about 1,000 undeveloped rolls of 120 belonging to a lady named Vivian Maier. He has started a blog to show her work, taken from the 1950’s through the 1970’s. Here’s his thread on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157622552378986/
(Via this post on the RangeFinder Forum: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=80962 )
Thanks! Brilliant blog.
Favourites: Oct 5, Sep 2, Aug 18, Aug 1, Jul 31, Jul 17, Jul 5
ALL
2 new pieces are up at http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com under scribbling in the dark
An Evening with Robert Frank, The Metropolitan Museum of Art 10/09/09
and
Robert Frank at Wellesley College 1977, Photography within the Humanities (very good..)
Justin
Amazing amazing work. What a marvelous find, and what an amazing unfolding story. I can’t wait to see more of her work.
ERICA
I’m reading ‘An Evening with Robert Frank…’ now. My copy of ‘The Americans’ arrived in the mail just a few weeks ago, so this interview with him is extremely interesting. Really appreciate your effort in making this available.
Bjarte – you are very welcome – I made notes that say something like (Americans, 26) when he refers to a certain image, I looked them up, so you can look in the book and see which he is talking about. They weren’t projected, but I figured it out. If you have the smaller book, you will have to count photos, but in the larger edition they are numbered.
Justin – thanks for that..stupendous..god I’m curious..will spend some time there looking, really looking.
Justin, what a find! Thank you for sharing this link here on Burn. Who says the great ones always rise to the top? Well, maybe they do but sometimes recognition of their genius comes only after they’ve passed on. Thank goodness John Maloof discovered Vivian Maier and is now allowing us to discover her too…
Patrica
Just got a Canon G11 in my hands from B&H. Apparently they have improved the noise over 400 ASA. . .
I also wanted to say that I have been shooting with a Leica M8.2 or the last few months in Bucharest and had never made prints from the files until the last few days back here in the US. Many people criticize that M8’s noise, but at 640 ASA, 16 x 20 prints made on my Epson R2400 look like prints from film shot at 800 ASA or so. Prints from my 5d MK II look so much more plasticky!
ERICA,
Once again we are all deeply in your debt for taking the trouble to write up the Robert Frank appearance at the Met, doing such a splendid job, and sharing it with us. You are the best kind of journalist. You may think that your forthcoming book of portraits needs no or little text, and I’m sure the images will stand on their own. But, if not for this project, perhaps for some future project, I really hope you will consider doing a words AND text project in which the two carry equal weight while complimenting each other. That is a genre that has not been explored anywhere near as thoroughly as the all-picture book, and I can’t think of anyone (other than perhaps DAH and Tom Hyde) as qualified as you to contribute something really powerful along those lines. Meanwhile, I hope you will continue scribbling in the dark for the benefit of us all. Many thanks.
OOOPSS!!!
I meant “words AND pictures..”
multimedia projects from Eddie Adams:
http://mediastorm.org/blog/?p=1338
Leica insider view: http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2009/10/leica-gallery/
So…very quiet around here lately.
Justin
Thanks for posting the links to Vivian Maier. What a fascinating story.
I previously had a Canon G9. The G11 seems to be more than twice as fast when shooting RAW. It’s actually a useable point-and-shoot on RAW.
Two from this past weekend at Eddie Adams. Using lights gave me a rung for my money :) I am used to using just natural light and not directing anyone:
http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/back-from-the-eddie-adams-workshop-and-onwards-to-bucharest/
OK, just recieved a copy of “What Matters, the worlds preeminent photojournalists and thinkers depict essential issues of our time” I’m going to sit down with it now.
G’nite all
Davin;
So how does the EAW work? Do they give you “assignments” to shoot and critique later? I’m just trying to work out why they would get you to shoot sports with artificial lights etc if that is not your usual subject. I could understand it on a long-term university course where they want to give you a taste of all types of photography.
Just curious as to why this type of workshop is beneficial compared to a tailor-made concentrated course for your own type of shooting. I did talk to a photographer who had attended the EAW a few years back and he felt it was more of a “networking” experience. How did it go for you?
Cheers
Bravo to Lu Guang ! http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/showcase-65/
hey Kat..just passing by to comment on an essay..wanted to say hello and how wonderful it is to see you posting here. I’m like Civi…dancing all the way to bed..goodnight and hope you are doing super!
big HUGZ
the other kat :))
kh,
Thanks for the link! That’s a great piece. Some of the best photojournalism I’ve seen in a while..
hey Kat , hello :) Martin, yes, it’s interesting…
KATIE,Street fighter,
did you see this VIVIAN lady !!!
it looks like she took photos from the heart … a street photographer with a
street fighter’s “finger” …
VIVA VIVIAN ,VIVA !!!
thank you MR.JUSTIN…
EMCD,
what a recognition you have received from one of the 1st class academic BURNIAN…
You deserve it…and keep scribbling in the dark!!!
KATHARINA, Kat,
WHAT MATTERS the most is that BURN is BURNing and you are one the baby BURNlights !!!
BURNIANS,
I LOVE YOU ALL…don’t get me started with BURN names …
I NEED YOU or shall I say
I WANT YOU ALL …hmmm…
Keep shooting BURNIANS …
and before I go…
MR.SIDNEY,
“…and I can’t think of anyone (other than perhaps DAH and Tom Hyde) as qualified as you to contribute something really powerful along those lines.”
…with all my respect,I believe that we have highly capable writers among the BURNIANS …
KATHLEEN FONSECA, BOBBY BLACK, AKAKY,JAN…and others…to contribute …
P.S my profound inability to express my thoughts in proper English is already well known…
BUT …I am studying hard…
your BOOK LIST is highly appreciated …
THANK YOU so much, SIR ATKINS !!!
Justin, thanks a lot. This Vivian Maier story is brilliant. Makes me feel like dusting off my Rollei…
CMA,
“Sir Atkins”, ahhhh CMA thou dost bestow too much upon a humble servant of the realm…… If indeed I am not mistaken with thy good reference. The aforementioned scribe bequeaths veritable exactitude and clarity upon his quill.
adieu bon études
Sir A
Dearest AITKEN,
Your post is LOVEly…as MR.JOHNY VINK once said “Makes me feel like dusting off my Rollei…”
makes me feel like dusting off my dictionary !!!
P.S Don’t get me started…I got to RUN …
Laughing hysterically …all the way to my work…:)))
@ kh
ah, really LOVED that work about china, and congrats to that photographer for “smith”… thanks for the link…
this Lens of the new-your-times is really great too. i got some emails when my work here on burn was published their under “must see, recommendations”, didnt know about the place before. now looking at it – really good stuff and editing.
wow, the china work really exited .. gonna have a look at it again
DAVIN…
sorry we missed you at the loft…Koudelka was sitting on the sofa, drinking a beer, and waiting for you!!! no joke… can you please send me a private e-mail?? i lost your address…in any case, we are almost set to publish the student work from last week…anyway, bad timing with EAW..total scheduling overlay…by the way, i have the same question as Ross Nolly…why would you have been shooting sports??
Lu Guang’s people shots have great poetic appeal about them
Bjarte, Erica, GordonL, Patricia, AndreaC, Civi, & John Vink: I glad that you all enjoyed the link to Vivian Maier’s work. Like Erica, I’ll be be spending some real time there. I certainly hope that John Maloof can secure a grant to assist with processing, scanning and archiving.
I don’t know if any of you clicked on the link to the RangeFinder Forum thread where I came across the link to the blog, but there is a gem of a post from Al Kaplan:
“I think that there’s a lesson or two (or three) here for all of us. This woman accomplished this with a twin-lens reflex camera, probably a Rolleiflex. She used just one lens and managed to come up with great compositions with the square format. She wasn’t afraid of her subjects, nor were they afraid of her. For the most part they were well aware that she was there.
Think about it next time you agonize over which camera(s) to take, which lenses, how are you ever going to get up the nerve to photograph strangers, OMG! what if they see you? She probably had more than on keeper on every 12 exposure roll too!”
___________
Justin
What I think is telling about this work is that she was not a people person but a loner etc. She’s people person enough to get the shots but not enough to get recognition. Obviously she wasn’t much of a networker.
But one thing is odd in the story. If she was a “film reviewer” as the obituary says, these must have been published somewhere. It’s also a bit odd that he couldn’t get in touch with the person who submitted the obituary.
Thanks, great link Justin, to Vivian’s work and her life.
KH,
Many thanks for the link to the Lu Guang photos via the Lens Blog. He is really an artist, and is tackling extremely important topics. Not only is he brave and committed, he is a great photographer.
CIVILIAN
I deeply appreciate your tireless and irrespressible boosterism, exuberance, and enthusiasm for the BURN conclave, BUT…
a) I wasn’t talking about “writers” in general (I agree that among BURN contributors there are many people who are talented with words including the ones you mentioned). I meant something much more specific… skilled JOURNALISTIC/Reportorial writers of a certain kind… who can describe events in succinct yet vivid detail with a minimum of their own personality or histrionics or editorializing intruding, and who are also brilliant photographers. There are probably (undoubtedly) others, and I apologize if I overlooked anybody… and I emphatically exclude myself from that category!
b) As an American citizen, I cannot legally accept (nor would I personally be inclined to accept) a title from any foreign government. So while I appreciate the sentiment of respect it seems to convey, I’m afraid that your “Sir” is inappropriate. To the best of my knowledge, the last time anyone in my family held a knighthood was during the Napoleonic Wars of the early 19th century.
how is everyone doing,
It was so good to see you Patricia … and everyone else at the Burn gallery opening … i know this is quite late but I havn’t spoken to anyone since … Anywho Patricia we need to skype!
also … EMCD … I love your website, the scribbling in the dark stuff is amazing … thanks for hosting that … there are some decent interviews with Eugene Richards on Youtube …
Eugene Richards Interviews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR26B3Fws7w
David/Anton/Everyone else … also really good to meet you all last friday at the Burn Gallery … I’m not the most vocal burnian but this site is just as important than coffee to me …
Cheers
MR.SIDNEY ATKINS,
I have a stage freeze after I read your post.
I read your post, I read it again and again… and again.
I blushed and I never blush…ever (when we meet in your Greek home
then you will see…I never blush …:))) Oh, well…
Please accept my sincere apologies. It was not my intention to offend you.
I would like to offer an explanation …regarding the “SIR” title:
MR.ATKINS = BURNIAN
BURNIAN = UNIVERSAL (no borders…worldwide)
MR. ATKINS = UNIVERSAL
Therefore as a Citizen Of the World I see no problem with your title :)))
I LOVE YOU MR.ATKINS…you are one of the BEST writers in our BURN list …
( to be perceived as a compliment)
P.S Even though you are an American Citizen I LOVE your kinda English Humor !!!
Hey all,
long time no see, but I wanted to say Cheers to DAH and his Burn “team” for the cool ‘gallery opening’ friday night! A real pleasure.
Special cheers to Patricia (finally met you -great!), Erica (nice work for R. Franck’s ‘transcripts’! hope you’re better), Sam, and Tim H -and a few others I got to chat with…
ps: I saw a few photogs shootin’away that night, especially DAH, but where are those photos (apart from Patricia’s)? Any way we can see’em?
Best, T.
Welcome back TANGUY,
Are you Civilian???
Are you Photophilosopher???
How was the party???
See…we have to wait for the pictures…
BURNIANS are perfectionists too !!!
What IS not to LOVE !!!
OK, I still haven’t started unpacking even though I returned home from NYC on Monday night. And I just sent Kyunghee Lee five of my pics from the illustrious Burn Gallery opening/Loft Workshop slideshow/fiesta on Friday night because she wants to submit an article about the event to a photo mag in Korea. Speaking of which, I sure wish I’d taken more time & trouble documenting that historic event, but I was having too much fun talking with interesting Burnians like Vivek, Preston, Jason, Kerry, Vasilios, Tanguy, Anton, Erica and DAH, to name just a few. But as Tanguy says, there were other cameras in evidence, so where are their pics??? Jason is the only other Burnian who has posted a link to his gallery/slideshow photos since Friday. Please, folks, don’t be shy. My stuff was crap but, hey, it gives a small sense of the evening. Let’s see more!
Now that I’m back home, I have had a little time to begin to assimilate what happened on that historic night. And I say “historic” in the truest sense of the word, for what our friend David Alan Harvey is creating here online and in person is the stuff that will be documented in future histories of photography.
I may have said this here before but it bears repeating: I believe DAH is the Alfred Steiglitz of our time and Burn Magazine, the 2009 version of Camera Work. What is happening here online and manifested itself in a print exhibit at the kibbutz in Brooklyn, is the gathering of persons from around the world who are passionate about photography as it is evolving during this time of dramatic change. We are DOING IT, my friends, and we have no idea where all this will lead. But that’s the nature of revolution/evolution: you catch the wave, hang onto your surfboard with prehensile toes, lean this way and that, and hope the ride will go on forever.
To my way of thiking, we are the luckiest people on the planet to going along for this ride together. Don’t you agree?
I mean, picture this: a darkened room packed with old and young iconic and emerging photographers and their friends. On the west side of this room is a bank of windows framing the skyline of Manhattan glittering above the East River. On the east side is a screen showing photos by Magnum photographer Alex Webb and his wife Rebecca, followed by twelve amazing photo essays created in a short, intense five days and nights of shooting in Manhattan and Brooklyn for DAH’s loft workshop. On the north and south walls and behind the slide screen are prints by iconic and emerging photographers from across the globe. Is this historic, or what????
I don’t know about you but I pinch myself every morning to see if I’m dreaming. What a remarkable wave we have caught! And we’re riding it together. That’s the best part of all.
Thank you, David Alan Harvey.
hugs
Patricia
Patricia
If you feel like writing a short article about the burn gallery show and send a couple of photos I will be happy to put it on The37thFrame.
Patricia;
It sounds like you all had a marvellous experience. Exciting times ahead I think….
THANK YOU our PATRICIA…
some of my friends ask me …why BURN is such a big part of my life…hmmm…
I am not good with words but I am good with energy…
whatever..let me copy and past for now
“I mean, picture this: a darkened room packed with old and young iconic and emerging photographers and their friends. On the west side of this room is a bank of windows framing the skyline of Manhattan glittering above the East River. On the east side is a screen showing photos by Magnum photographer Alex Webb and his wife Rebecca, followed by twelve amazing photo essays created in a short, intense five days and nights of shooting in Manhattan and Brooklyn for DAH’s loft workshop. On the north and south walls and behind the slide screen are prints by iconic and emerging photographers from across the globe. Is this historic, or what??? ”
I am traveling through your lenses …
I LOVE YOU .
P.S Goodnight from Greece… and Cyprus has beautiful weather !!!
Thanks for the invitation, Pete. Let me see if I can unpack first and then try to write an article about that historic night. Now I really do wish I’d been attentive to my picture-taking, but maybe that’s a fact of life. When you’re part of history being made, you’re too busy living it to think much about documenting it.
Thanks, Ross and Civi, for your kind words.
Patricia
I am not sure if anyone has seen this… I found it and just linked to it on The37thFrame.org.
Very cool.. this guy has found a gold mine.
http://vivianmaier.blogspot.com/
Patricia; “When you’re part of history being made, you’re too busy living it to think much about documenting it”
Sometimes it’s better to just put the camera down and enjoy the experience….
Cheers
Vivian Mayer…. John Maloof, yes, Pete, Justin gave the link yesterday.
Cool, the shape of things to come even more than ever (just an intuition), and with the internet, very little will get lost from now on.
Always important, VITAL!, to see the profession (too often confused with the medium, parts and all), which is mired in the present, the careering, the networking, the who’s who, and obsequious sycophantry, taken out of Photography, with nothing lacking from it in the end. As it should always be.
Interesting Times are getting more interesting….
Patricia
No hurry and it does not have to be long.
friday night unplugged
http://www.robertoalfano.net/DAH
ALL
It seems a little quiet here so I decided to put up the interview I did with David at the loft last week or so..please read and enjoy!
It’s at http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com then scribbling in the dark, David Alan Harvey talks with Erica
******************************************************************************
Sidney … I will seriously think about what you say..may take some growing into, but am touched by your confidence in me. thank you…
Vasilos..did we meet at the opening? so glad you are enjoying he scribbling!
Love love LOVE the pics Vivek posted of Friday night and Saturday at the loft! Thanks! By the way, are they yours or Roberto’s?
Patricia
Erica, your interview with David is SUPERB! Your questions are so geared to him annd his life, but his answers take us further into his creative process and thinking than I’ve ever seen before. You, my dear, have a true gift at this interviewing business. How about writing an interview for a magazine like Aperture? you are ready and our photographic world is waiting…
Thank you.
Patricia
Patricia..so glad you like it! it’s a bucket of fun too :) Sure, sign me up with Aperture…
OOPS..I am just looking at it now and I am still missing the name of the photographer that DAH showed the workshop students – images from Vernazza..anyone??
Erica
Thanks for the DAH interview. You are a marvel M’dear.
Pete, Justin, et al
Thanks for the blog link to Vivian Mayer´s work. Being a dedicated, if occasionally discouraged street photographer, her work brought tears to my eyes. And medium format, no less. I am so moved and can´t seem to lose the lump in my throat with each new photo. It´s too painfully bittersweet for me to even spend much time all at once looking. I get too emotional. She lost all her work due to delinquent payments..and only by the grace of God and Mr. Moloof´s curiosity has it been discovered, appreciated, celebrated and brought to its deserved audience.
As an immigrant (Jewish refugee) to the USA, surely she made sense of her foreign surroundings through the camera, much as i do here in Central America. The skill and talent she brought to the task far exceeds mine. But perhaps not the love, passion and endless looking, looking, looking. I think i can say i very much understand her heart and her drive to understand and capture all that bombarded her sensitive nature. I hurt so much for her never knowing that her work had been saved from oblivion.
Sorry, but i am so affected by this story.
Thanks for bringing the link to my attention.
RIP, Vivian :))
Kathleen
patricia ..those are robertos pics …i was assigned on beer duty that night …. both …. stocking and drinking :-)))))))))))))
Erica — If I’m not mistaken, the photographer David was talking about was Marco Vernaschi.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/showcase-55/
Great meeting you last week…
Adam
Vivek, you did a great job at both stocking AND drinking ;=)))
But mostly you did a great job at coordinating the carrying Patricia-and-her-scooter up those steep front steps into the kibbutz. Many thanks!
xxooo
Patricia
Adam! I owe you an email..just super busy at the moment..great meeting and talking with you too..funny I thought DAH said Vernazza, thought he was working on his Italian accent :)
Gordon – :)
Amen
Patricia
It was an honor …….cheers
WAKE UP BURNIANS,
and please, proceed to the VIOLET AISLE …
I am in AWE or AWW,WRB, RNW …:)))
Why do I LOVE you SO much???
So, if the gallery show had the feel of the beginning of a “genuine artistic movement”, does this movement have anything approaching a manifesto? There’s a challenge for you all. Or maybe just use Erica’s DAH interview for now…
BURNIANS,
“In the end we are all separate: our stories, no matter how similar, come to a fork and diverge. We are drawn to each other because of our similarities, but it is our differences we must learn to respect.”
I don’t know who wrote… the above …
But since the Bar has been raised …I would love to see some RESPECT…in the BURNLAND !!!
I LOVE YOU ALLLL
Civi
You are right again. Good quote. If i put it in google, will an answer come up?
ANDREAC,
I have an old book full of quotes…you know here in Greece, we rely mainly on books
Hmmm…
Well, my book doesn’t give me more info…hmmm…
Anyways, How are you Aussie??? Don’t waste your time googleing …go and check …
aisle…color violet or violeti !!!
WHAT IS NOT TO LOVE !!!
I am cooking chestNUTS
Erica, I’m pretty sure we did not meet at the opening … pretty pretty pretty sure; I came somewhat late and only got to meet the lovely patricia, anton, and a few of the other burn peeps, including dah (luckily).
I was feeling somewhat timid as I don’t post often on burn and the community online here is so strong and friendly … you would think that would have a reserve effect but alas different strokes. Do you live in the New York area? It would be great to get some people together who are around (or afar) just for some casual happenings, discussions, round-tables and/or docile tea-party’s.
Cheers,
“genuine artistic movement”
yes yes – PAUL STRAND would be proud..
“The Photo League was a remarkable and unique organization, at that time or any other time.
It has no equivalent, that i know of, as an important organization devoted to photography and photographers in the best sense… They felt, as i have, that the function of art was to speak to people about the world in which they exist”
24th july 1974,
(from the book – ‘paul strand – essays on his life and work’)
david AH – you must be familiar with the League of Photographers and strands mentoring?
:o)
I know this is completely off topic but has anyone seethe work of Chris Jordan?
Its really powerful work. And, please look at his current work titled Midway.
http://www.chrisjordan.com/current_set2.php?id=11
It’s just very disturbing.
Wow … srinivaskuruganti … it is some disturbing images there, but oddly so … it speaks zounds for consumerism and the effects on our environment (specifically the fauna) … really a shame that these animals are eating our garbage, but still what a visual contradiction, to see the innards of an animal full of bottle caps and assorted junk …
Thanks for sharing … knowledge is power.
vas
It pains me to look at them.
I cannot get the images out of my head.
Andy Levin had posted the link on FB and I thought it’s important for us to look at these images so I decided to post the link here.
srinivaskuruganti
Wow.
Wow, Srinivas…. Familiar, though, if thinking of all the shit (baggage) we have in our heads… ;-)
PS: Someone said a world as DORIAN GRAY?
Erica, thanks too. This DAH interview was long in the making, for no fault of your own, or even David’s, ever busy and roaming the earth.
If it was not for sounding like a name of some post-whatever-ism french philosopher, I’d call it the DAHRICA interview! :-)
ERICA,
It had been a while that I had not visited your site. Great interview with David. You do have a talent for writing and interviewing. I think you have that special skill to let others open up…it shows in your interviews and it also shows in your photography… As you know, I have been anxious to see your essay here on Burn. It was a priviledge to see your draft book when we were together in Charlottesville. If I was a smart editor with a lot of money, I would jump on the opportunity to publish that book… I can only imagine that it is getting better and better as you keep working this… I was intrigued by the title “Dark light of his nothing”…and hope you will tell us about it….By the way, I laughed when I saw your picture of the book with your face behind….this talented photographer that never wants to have her picture taken….thank god your subjects are not like you :):):)… Anyway, hope you are doing well and will patiently wait to discover the final version of the essay when you are ready….
Cheers,
Eric
srinivaskuruganti
overwhelmed by the tragedy that is a reality..I wrote Chris Jordan to see if there are any direct initiatives we can contribute to, but of course it is a major global issue. and I just bought juice at the market and tossed that little plastic ring in the trash. painful.
herve – dahrica, is the accent on the first or second syllable?
Eric…I so wish I could update my site, but it would just be little stuff and tears at this time anyway..i made a decision not to shoot anything else in a concerted way till I finish this, am too easily persuaded drift in another direction..as it is, this morning was thinking I really want to do another round of street portraits this summer for the book, but I don’t know, half of me just wants to wrap it up and the other half knows I could do better now that I shot the 35mm / street component.. I think the work is much improved since you saw it. I hope so.
re: open up..many people have told me I should become a therapist..I wonder if the clients would let me photograph them :) ?? a sort of therapy.. I’m surprised more photogs don’t dislike having their picture taken.
the title, or at the working title is the dark light of this nothing: it comes from the words of the philosopher Derrida that reflect on the experience of the loss of the Other, or the absence of “what I myself am not”. And the photos are really about a group of people that are slipping away, unnoticed by most. So the idea is that after they are gone, there will be a certain awakening, a light of realization that something has been lost. Hence, it is a dark light, or the dark light of this nothing.
“Upon the death of the other we are given to memory, and thus to interiorization, since the other, outside us, is now nothing. And with the dark light of this nothing, we learn that the other resists the closure of our interiorizing memory. With the nothing of this irrevocable absence, the other appears as other, and as other for us, upon his death or at least in the anticipated possibility of a death, since death constitutes and makes manifest the limits of a me or an us who are obliged to harbor something that is greater and other than them: something outside of them within them.”
I just got back to rainy Bucharest and have been testing the Canon G11 at parties tonight. At 1600 ASA in RAW it’s a go! Fast response and so much less noise! This is a great camera!
MARK W…
i do not think a “manifesto” is where we are …but, i do think that “something happened” last friday…it was a merging of iconic and the emerging..something i have been trying to push for a long time, but it seemed so so palpable that evening….i want to make it happen more and more on Burn and in the live events we do…Burn is only the net coming alive to do something real….the virtual world as a room to gather, but the outcome of books, shows, commissions etc with photographers benefiting by simply being a part of this vibe this gathering…nothing new in this concept..been happening for centuries…like minded artists , creative people stimulating each other to do great things…those movements never last long…but, in their creation and heyday, there is nothing more productive nor stimulating…in this spirit, i welcome your thoughts….
cheers, david
New Blog Post – Re-entry to Bucharest is always a bit rough for me: http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/2009/10/17/back-in-bucharest-3/
Thank you, srinivaskuruganti, for posting a link to those horribly painful yet needed-to-be-seen images. With knowledge comes responsibility. I’m hoping it will make me avoid plastic containers/objects whenever possible.
Patricia
dellicson, I simply can’t understand why, the way you clearly feel about Bucharest, you remain there. It’s as if you are trying to exorcise some inner demon that won’t let you go.
been so rushed I forgot to say that DAH makes it easy to do an interview and thank you thank you..this is a man who has trouble neither with words or images!
Erica: Thank you so much for the interview & transcription with David! Very informal and candid – I loved it! (DAH: Thank you so much for opening yourself to Erica’s questions.)
Erica, for some reason, your line of “…the photos are really about a group of people that are slipping away, unnoticed by most. So the idea is that after they are gone, there will be a certain awakening, a light of realization that something has been lost.” made me think of a tombstone in the cemetery where many of my family members reside. There is a stone only inscribed “Tennessee” with the years of birth and death; my father told me the grave belongs to drifter in town that was know only by the name of his native state. No one in town bothered to learn his real name while he was alive, but after he passed, his friends gathered enough funds for a proper grave marker.
I’m hoping it will make me avoid plastic containers/objects whenever possible.
——————————————-
Will the developpong word reform too? I know not of South and Central America, China or Africa, but just traveling thru India and South-East Asia, plastic is one of the ubiquitous symbols of that side of the developping world.
To think that in thailand, they discarded, a looong time ago, banana leaves as perfect, and beautiful food container, for styrofoam, adding plastic bags and bottles (stuff almost impossible to frame out of a picture). And forget about trash. The street, the rivers and streams are the bin dust there, and recycling is at wishful thinking stage at best. Or little kids do it, not for environmental reasons needless say, for a buck or 2 a day, at great risk for their health.
Great pacific garbage dump (some say continent, down to 2 miles deep I hear!!!) Easy search on Ytube, most of you know about this, I am sure, but in case:
Srinivaskuruganti
Thank you for posting that. I had no idea. What a tragedy. I’ve hope the photographer can get it a wide showing. Similarly, in India I’ve seen cows chewing slowly on rags which perhaps they can digest but I’ve also seen them with huge lumps on the sides of their stomachs which the locals told me was plastic bags. It’s also very common. I’m convinced the planet is dying. There is no doubt that its very very sick. Sorry to be so gloomy. But I don’t know what I can do about it. Seems like you have to a politician, or a scientist to be heard at all. Its the only reason I’ve got to be glad I don’t have kids.
Herve
That also is frightening. I’m going to give up junk food (again) now!!! And in india, this time I think i will have to give up Parle-G (my favourite biscuits).
All
Can anyone explain the plucked rooster in Alex’s shot and the painted bird’s wing? It occurred to me that those pictures may be manipulated in some way but on further looking, I don’t think so.
Civi
Chestnuts! That brings back memories of your nemesis, Turkey, where I ate them for the first time ever so many years ago now. I will be better when i am on the plane heading off to India. Only 4 weeks to go!!! I feel a bit stagnant at the moment. I’m procrastinating. Nevertheless the sea is always beautiful. Yesterday it was dead calm and the sky was a soft pink at sunset. Do you live by the sea or in the mountains?
I have my answer to “Rebecca’s” rooster picture. I was pleased to see that the rooster hadn’t been plucked but only shaved. Still grotesque but ever so slightly less disturbing.
Erica;
Thanks for all the work you’ve done transcribing all those interviews. Be assured it’s appreciated…
Lassal;
Received my 6 rolls of Holga/Isoly shot film back today. The Isoly is shooting ok; even the Velvia came out spot-on using B exposures and the old “one thousand and one” count for the 1 second exposures!
The 800ASA six-year expired film is shooting more like a 400, but I had taken that into account. Now I know how the cameras are shooting I can afford to shoot a bit more.
I ended up having a splurge today and ordered a Canon 8800f to scan my negs, so it looks like I’m committed now (or maybe I should be committed!)… I’ll post a few images in a week or so after the scanner arrives.
Cheers
Erica
re combining photography with therapy, you might find the work of Jo Spence interesting if you don’t already know it. Nobody has taken her ideas further but I think there is a lot of potential there for people interested in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Spence
ERICA,
Thanks for the very thoughtful perspective on the book title… I like it very much. I understand what you are going through about either wrapping it up or carrying on further… I have this sense that Mrs Erica is a perfectionist :):):). I guess you probably want to squeeze the last drop out of the topic and if you feel it isn’t over yet, you may want to keep going until you really know it is over… but at the same time, will it ever be over???? If this is the neighborhood where you live, I can see you shooting for a long time :):)… I think it is great by the way that you kept shooting with the 35mm… You know I love your “large format” portraits but I have to say that the street portraits I saw really did it for me!!!
Cheers,
Eric
It’s been very interesting to read these interviews with DAH and Alex and Rebecca. There are not enough good interviews around with photographers, compared with those with writers. My 3 vols of the Paris Review interviews bring endless enjoyable reading and great insight into the creative process.
ERICA: I see the potential for a “Scribbling in the Dark” small book publication or at least a regular magazine or website column somewhere. Please keep up the great work.
Bob Black posted this under my essay, but for those who didn’t see it and are interested, here is an interview with my done a couple of weeks ago about The East Anglians project and exhibition. There is nothing like a good interviewer to get you thinking about your work:
http://caughtbytheriver.net/2009/10/justin-partyka-the-east-anglians/
DAVIN E:
Have you tried out the video on the G11? I’ve been making a film using a G9 and the only thing that really lets it down occasionally is the audio from the built in mic. At times I’ve had to use a separate audio recorder alongside the camera. If the G11 has a audio input jack (as the D5 II does) then it should be almost perfect.
Cheers,
Justin
Quiet time….how about some imported prawns http://www.artouko.com/
Jim Powers:
I think that things get interesting in life when there is some tension involved–a healthy tension. I sort of have a love hate relationship with Bucharest. My all time life highs happen here as well as my all time lows. In the US, where I just was for a week, my experience tends to be more even without such extremes. So, I have chosen the adventurous route! I think it’s quite interesting how when I stay here in Bucharest for a few months I start to fall in love with it as I have tuned myself to the right wavelength, but then one week in the West and I come back and I am all out of balance for life here. This just goes to show you how different Eastern Europe still is. So, I stay here because of this difference. Interesting things seem to occur when one is pushed beyond one’s normal comfort zone. But, yes, I am sort of perversely attracted to Bucharest. What repels me also draws me in!
JUSTIN….
nice interview…thanks for linking…i am hoping we are going to be able to have a conversation soonest about your book….maybe skype this week???
IMANTS…
love the way you think with your little slide shows….i am ready when you are to publish another one here….it is going to be mid november before i am going to have any solid information for you…my schedule is just so tight between now and then…however, i will try to call you this this week as well…
ANDREA C..
thanks for the Jo Spence link….i have met several young photographers lately who are studying phototherapy…one young Italian woman , who was interning in my studio, is receiving her PhD in phototherapy from an Italian university where this is a popular course of study…yes, this is a bit different than what you were referring to…psychological rather than physical, but still photography used in medical treatment….
by the way, you sent me a private email with a question…i wrote you back with another question….??????????
ERIC ESPINOSA…
i am so so pleased to have you back with us….perhaps we can also skype? davidalanharvey we have a lot of catching up to do….i do hope you and your family are well settled now in Belgium…..you should go see Anton or he should come to see you….i have not forgotten your book….and i know you have a new idea..in any case, let’s please have a one on one chat….
cheers, david
Yea I will put something together……… one of my computers had a major Laura Bingle and I lost my email addresses. could you send me yours David. thanks
IMANTS…
what in the world is a Laura Bingle?? of course will send you a note now…
.. a crash a accident,a minor crash or upset, as in a car or on a surfboard. Laura Bingle is a high profile model here. Ah dunno maybe I just made it up
Thanks David.
I will be around on and off this coming week, so hopefully our times to Skype will cross.
Best time is early morning for you, right? Between 6 – 7am eastern time?
I’ll be signed into Skype if I’m available. I can always text you to see if you’re around.
Best,
Justin
David AH
How strange. I replied straight away. And then again the next day. I got confused about fall. I will try to send them again.
I got a message from Cathy too and replied but did not hear again. I wonder if something is wrong with the connection somewhere.
I usually hit reply. Maybe I should start a fresh one.
NY Burnians. The company I work for has an opening in their NY office that I am considering going after. This probably (is) putting the cart before the horse, but what areas are good for living in the area? Somewhat affordable and safe? What can I look to spend for rent?
I know there is alot of variations, but just looking for some baseline info. Thanks.
Hey Brian … depends what you’re looking for and where in NY you want to live … I can only speak for the brooklyn area, but here we go:
Williamsburg/East Williamsburg … this is the “Hipster”area of Brooklyn, many great restaurants, vintage clothing stores, the brooklyn brewery as well as a lot of great bars/night life. It can start to get expensive though, usually you won’t find a place in this area (that is suitable for life) for under $800 … You’ll be taking the L (gray) line into manhattan, which is fast and consistent:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
Park Slope … This is also a great place to live, a lot more families in the area and a different, more community feel all together … really the great thing about Park Slope is that you are close to Prospect Park (NY’s Biggest Park, extremely beautiful…) theres also a lot of great eatery’s and bars and the subway lines are all about 15-30 mins out of manhattan, so its pretty quick as well.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
Again, what I would ask myself when looking for a place to live is (in ny):
1) What am I willing to compromise?
-Location (Closer to cool stuff to do/manhattan) or farther
-Do you want to have space to live in or do you not mind living like a rat
-How much are you willing to spend.
If you can balance these three criteria, you may find a decent place … and brooklyn has a lot of other good areas … Carroll Gardens, Red Hook, Brooklyn Hights, Greenpoint … etc.
now if you’re not looking at brooklyn at all I just wasted a lot of space, but as far as manhattan is concerned … Hells kitchen is cheap, Soho, Tribeca, et al are all really cool places to live but boku expensive … You may be able to find some reasonable places to live in the upper east or west side, but wayyyy upper (more than likly).
Good luck let me know if you want any questions.
Herve
“Taking the same picture all your life”
I think most photographers, after the initial exploration stage, settle into a particular groove. I guess we can view this groove as a rut, or as a recognisable style. There is probably a little of both in play.
We do the same things over and over because they work for us, we can see this in the works of most photographers.
Earlier this year in a comment I told a story of how Arnold Newman was speaking to a large group of portrait photographers at our provincial convention. At one point he shocked everyone by waving his hand toward all the prints hanging in the back of the room and saying something like “you people are producing plastic sausages, I’ve seen those same images for years all over the world”.
Newman was presenting a slide show of his famous images. It was interesting that within his own body of work, there were perhaps a half dozen compositions that appeared over and over, just with different subjects. Hey, you do what works.
I’ve certainly found that in my own work, the groove has become deeper and deeper, to the point where I’m having to strain to see over the edge of it, to push the metaphor a little farther.
Burn has been an amazing inspiration and journey. Viewing such a diversity of great work, reading, thinking, commenting, have all contributed to a very fresh take on what photography is for me. I’m very excited. I do love my life, and my passions.
THANKS DAVID ALAN HARVEY
I don’t think I’ve said that in a while, but I love what you are doing here.
vasilios,
Thanks for the quick and thorough reply. I will look into those Brooklyn areas.
BURNIANS,
I am so happy !!!
I am the happiest !!!
“…and when I read posts like this one…Burn has been an amazing inspiration and journey. Viewing such a diversity of great work, reading, thinking, commenting, have all contributed to a very fresh take on what photography is for me. I’m very excited. I do love my life, and my passions ” GORDON.L !!!
yes, MR.DAVID ALAN HARVEY …THANK YOU …and of course ANTON,KERRY,MIKEC…BURNIANS …SPONSORS…
and I mean THANK YOU each and all of you …from my big Civilian heart…
Keep it UP and keep rolling…
P.S KATIE, street fighter …love and DAVIDB and MyGracie, BOBBY and ABELE and HERVE and ourPATRICIA
and thank you HAIK …yes the computer tech of the century and oime and ANDREAC …I consider myself
a MOUNTAIN civilian …and PANOS with Venice in his ipod and AKAKY IRL AKAKIE and AUDREY with my French family and MR.VINK with his itching and MR.SIDNEY with his book list and oime…i am lost with MR.PARR in the aisle waiting to see some violet CUBAN birds from A&R WEBB…
I WILL BE BACK …i am drinking Mousto …hihihi
drinking norsk ALE..
it’s fizzy
:o/
Stin iyia mas
Hey, y’all..
9:46am Venice beach California ..:)
Update:
Jim Morrison and Peacefrog and the Magic Rv
are departing in 2 hours…
Going MEXICO..
yes driving across the border..
Peacefrog performing tonight..
Invited by the Mexican goverment..
Blah blah yada yada…
I’m invited..to photograph of course
:))))
lets see what happens…:)
viva mexicoooooo…!
Goooooooooooal!!!!
DAVIDB or db …
db looks weird like a BURNing balls of fire…
sorry mate…it’s the musto
**Stin iyia mas
** cheers ,opa, clear bottoms …
P.S I am blowing smilies to TOR CAPA and BEATE !!! By the way…I see
BOB and MARINA BLACK as duet…Will you be duet with BEATE ???
PANOS…
just keep heading south and turning left and driving fast…you will be in Oaxaca by the time i arrive next week…seriously, the Day of the Dead will blow your mind….i arrive on 28th
vasilios – yes, am in NYC..might gather with a few others for Frank’s CS blues screening..email if you want to join
justin – tennessee, yes. I can see it. feel the damp air around his stone. about scribbling, I think it will become regular..am trying to gear up for the launch of a photo consulting biz and workshops with Andrew S, and on that website will be lots of photo resources like talks and books and tips and grant info and all that jazz. feels like a herculean effort though to get this organized.
andrea – jo spence, well that’s real therapy, and amazing. i was sort of being glib, apologies. that rooster sadly was a fighting coq, making it very disturbing for me..that was the one image at the loft slideshow I had a hard time with. it makes me so f’in angry that people have such disregard for the creatures.
ross :)
eric – you are right, it will never be as good as it could be, and it’s hard to find the peace in that. just spent some time at the photo-eye bookstore looking around, and that provides some comfort that people do just produce, and sometimes is work that seems not quite there, and yet it is done..
brian – v has good advice, tho in Park Slope you will be looking at twice what he wrote for Williamsburg. if you have specific Q’s when you get further along, feel free to email
PANOS,
VIVA !!!
We are drinking mousto here waiting for your arrival and you are going Mexico…???
Oime …May the travel spirits be good with you …
and with all the BURNIANS …who are traveling tonight !!!
P.S REIMAR …I am sending you smiles …
KATIA …we love you !!!
KATHARINA… what IS not to lOVE !!!
ERICA,
can I have a copy of your book …
” Scribbles in the dark”
P.S signed …please ???!!!
Yeeess!!!!
Introducing Venice to Mexico ..
What’s more colorful???
Mexico or Venice ???
Hmmm , we will see tonight..:)
one thing I know for sure though..:)
I’m having a veggie burrito ..
Not Al Pastor..:(
Some more photos of THE night…
I had the chance to be a part of this fabulous event as one of David’s workshop students.
Anyways, I hope this works, here’s the link:
http://picasaweb.google.com/bornheim.mitte/DAHAtHome2009?feat=directlink#
Gordon, these words are not mine, but many artists and biographers have said it, the first I heard them was from fellini, who said he “made the same movie all his life”, or “I only made one movie all my life”. Though, He did not mean using the same techniques, or using what was comfortable to him (God knows fellini rarely had it comfortable, making movies).
When Picasso was working on his variation on previous great paintings (Goya, Delacroix, Manet), he liked in the end to put his work against the painter’s original , and evry time, would invariably exclaim “It’s exactly the same thing!”.
I think in photography, some would say “whatever I ever shot, was a self-portrait” to that effect.
Which is not realted the copies, imitations, repetitions and too-influenced attempts any student in any art is prone to. Which was all I meant when mentionning going thru a WS as an emerging photographer under “Violet Isle”. It did not have to be David’s. it could be mine if I coaxed some kids into photography, in Asia for ex., or wherever.
Bucharest update:
I am in my hat, long underwear and North Face coat as the heat in my Bucharest apartment will not be turned on until sometime next week. I turned on the burners on my stove and so the kitchen warmed up a bit :) It is good to be young and strong and virile! It is good to have hardship! It gives you that special edge! I sink my teeth into the cold and enjoy it!
Just to confirm:
Main Entry: vir·ile
Pronunciation: \ˈvir-əl, ˈvir-ˌī(-ə)l, British also ˈvī(-ə)r-ˌī(-ə)l\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French viril, from Latin virilis, from vir man, male; akin to Old English & Old High German wer man, Sanskrit vīra
Date: 15th century
1 : having the nature, properties, or qualities of an adult male; specifically : capable of functioning as a male in copulation
2 : energetic, vigorous
3 a : characteristic of or associated with men : masculine b : having traditionally masculine traits especially to a marked degree
4 : masterful, forceful
— vir·ile·ly adverb
I really like the word virile. It describes the way I try to live.
Davin…
Fuck Bucha…
Come Mexico ..110 degrees today..
We are all naked..
4 young talented rock n roll players..
and an old guy ( me ) with a tiny camerita…
Big festival at the Cultural Centro in Tijuana..
The DOORS , headlining….
Everybody get in..
RV is ready to depart… In 10 minutes..
Ticket? Just bring a case of coronitas..
We got two coolers ready to go
Adele.. Orale por favor…:)
Panos
You are in mexico??? Coool :) Take some photos of senioritas for me. I am jealous. I need sun. High depressed… rain.. wind… everything grey. But best for photos. Great mood for homeland stories. All time M6 in my hand. A few 400tx exposed. I need sun.
Take care.
Dominik
Thanks for photos. Not too many been posted here.
Panos:
Sounds nice there. . . I may need to go out and get a few beers to ‘warm’ me up here :)
Marcin, Davin…
Yes.. I’m at the back of the RV right now staring at the 405 freeway..
I will post as we go at the
CONVERSESROUGES.com
u know… The coolest “post live as u go”
website ever created…
By our tech guru HAIK…:)
what’s not to love???
:)
DOMINIK,
Thanks for the photos of THE night…. For those of us who could not join, it gives us a good feel of what it must have been like…. I had the privildege of being at the Loft before and seeing the images of this place bring a lot of warm memories. Kind of nice as well to look at the wall and see images from many friends… Mr Tom Hyde, this shot of yours at the top of the building should be mine…. I hope no one bought it :):):):) We need to do this print exchange eventually my friend!!!….
Cheers,
Eric
DAVID,
Would love to catch up with you indeed…I will look at you on SKYPE and hopefully we can get our crazy schedules to match sometimes soon:):). You are absolutey right…No excuse for not getting together with Anton… now that he is friend with the YAKUZA I must have been scared :):)… I wish I could join you in Mexico some day…Probably not this year but might try next as I have been so keen to do the Day of the dead as well….
Will catch up in any case.
Eric
Thank you Dominik for your reportage of the historical happening… just curious: who is the author of the print behind the guy’s head in image #15?
In two days at Eddie Adams last weekend a few of us produced multimedia essays with the help of Brian Storm and MKIIs:
Davin, don’t forget about the best way to stay warm : body heat!
Panos, some Manu Chao travel music for you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuktJ8mppE0&feature=related
Davin; I posted this a few pages back, but you probably missed it. I was interested in the format of the EAW.
“So how does the EAW work? Do they give you “assignments” to shoot and critique later? I’m just trying to work out why they would get you to shoot sports with artificial lights etc if that is not your usual subject. I could understand it on a long-term university course where they want to give you a taste of all types of photography.
Just curious as to why this type of workshop is beneficial compared to a tailor-made concentrated course for your own type of shooting. I did talk to a photographer who had attended the EAW a few years back and he felt it was more of a “networking” experience. How did it go for you?”
Cheers
Hi Ross,
You have no say in what team you get put on. But the idea is to push you out of your comfort zone anyway and many students on various teams used lights. It’s a 3 1/2 day event with about 3 hours of sleep per night max. You have two days to shoot an assignment which actually = about 10 hours total to get to the location and meet your subjects and photograph. You then get to edit alongside your team leader and editor. The rest of the time is spent listening to many, many lecturers and watching their slideshows. On two of the nights there is the ‘11.30’ club where you get to do portfolio reviews for a few hours with a whole slew of top people. Yes, it was different than a 10 person DAH style workshop, but the networking and meeting other emerging photographers was pretty good. I started to get the feeling that I was missing something by not going as so many good photographers have done it. So, I finally applied the last year I am eligible.
Justin Smith:
Yes, body heat. I am trying to meet these twins again next week to give them a big print I made for them while in the US. I just spoke to one of them on Yahoo Messenger. Hopefully I can get a proper shoot with them. Actually a proper anything with them would be good: http://nordichigh.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/ellicson-1-2.jpg
Davin, (in my best Kool_Aid Man voice): “Oh, Yeahhhh!”
Good luck :-)
Davin; Thanks for that. :-)
David AH
I sent you another email last night. Did you get it?
Cathy
I got yours. Cheers.
Do you need special software to make a slideshow that looks like those we have seen here of late? Do you have to turn the sound into an MP3 file? Or is it in camera recording? I don’t think I can do this after all. I am too much of a luddite.
Andrea,
You need to flash. That’s how it is.
Cheers from special software group. Anton(TM) can ‘splain. :)
after the fire …It’s still painful to watch…
“…hopelessness, sadness, and despair” …It’s so UNIVERSAL …
I LOVE YOU ALL…BE SAFE out there.
More comments on ‘After the fire’…
I think the audio worked particularly well when we could hear the voices synchronised with the people visible in the pictures, for instance the woman with the cat. There was often a sorrow in their voices which added something to the photographs.
I think for people who aren’t used to watching movies with subtitles it can be harder to focus on the captions as well as the photographs and audio… But it wouldn’t hurt if the text was bigger, it would be easier to focus on everything…
ROSS….DAVIN
my feeling on EAW is that it is primarily a newspaper photographers workshop…and, yes, a networking experience, although networking is way way over rated as aiding any kind of career move in general…means nothing unless you have something special to offer……nevertheless, for a three day sponsored workshop , EAW is quite good…i taught there for the first six years or so and Eddie Adams was a good friend and he sought to provide a meaningful experience for young photographers who wanted to be photojournalists….with its close proximity to new york, many editors from the major magazines can easily drive up for the long weekend and lend their expertise…photography as personal expression , book publishing, and the gallery scene are not part of the EAW program, but for those who want to break into straightforward photojournalism, then EAW is a good starting point….
New life… After the Fire…
http://www.tzalavras.com/After_the_Fire/index.html
(Mt. Imitos, Athens, Greece)
Haik
You mean its all done with flash? Somehow I don’t think that’s the whole answer. Nevermind, I shouldn’t have asked.
The EAW was a lot of fun 10 odd years ago when I attended , but what was more enlightening was meeting the photographers who were workshop lecturers a couple of years later on the road….funny stuff!
The guy who was my mentor got a real taste for my winfield blues and never bought out his own smokes once the whole 3 days.
It was a meaningful experience in that I had never been exposed to so many people with such passion in my life , interesting to see what it took then to make some sort of photo career in the states.
DAH, sorry I missed your tenure – BTW Lara Bingle http://jonpsevers.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/laura-bingle-zoo-magazine.jpg
GLENN,
Good onya mate, glad to see your taste in reading material is upholding the high literary standards we try to set here at BURN. (I refer of course to that paragon of the journalistic profession, Zoo magazine!)
Cheers,
Adelaide
Andrea
there are more complicated ways of creating a mm piece but for a slideshow a lot of people use soundslides (http://soundslides.com) and a digital recorder to gather sound as .wav or .mp3 files, but yes you use mp3 for soundslides.
Civi
I have left your signed copy of scribbling in the dark at the front desk of Perivolas on Santorini.
Andrea, I use Slideshow Pro as does Burn. If you use Lightroom, there is a version for it that will allow you to do this pretty easily. Adding audio isn’t much more difficult. I use a Zoom H2 recorder for audio. Soundslides is also an easy to use program. Not as feature packed as Slideshow Pro, but for down and dirty slide shows with sound, it works great.
Civilian M. Friend
Just a special note, a little hug..will be back..last night at the pool hall in lower La Guacima with Shirley my friend the figure model and lesbian ¨Pooles¨ owner. A surreal evening that included a Jimmy stuck 6 feet from the edge of a 350 meter sheer cliff in the pitch black that only got resolutely more stuck with every effort to free it, scorpion bites, banged kness, cow poop, fights with tow truck drivers, much frantic cell phone activity, Fellini-esque birthday party in a laundry room including one lady who stared into space with a gaping mouth, much like Edvard Munch´s ¨scream¨ painting, liquor made from the local alcoholic beverage Guaro mixed with caramel and ¨nancy fruit¨, a motorcycle hitting a speed bump too fast and the pregnant girlfriend flying off the back, going around and round in the air before landing splat on her back in the road, a guy all dressed up, polished shoes, under the jaundiced glow of a mercury lamp who spent the entire evening leaning mutely alone against a phone booth, only coming to life once when the phone rang, skinny homosexual boys, skinny hetero girls on the backs of motorcycles, midriffs bared, no helmets, stocky lesbians, pot, arroz con pollo, electronic music, and of course, the steady staccato click of balls being struck and sent skittering across the felt of two pool tables that looked far more sedate, sturdy and permanent than the 60 year old shack made of slats, tar, tin, and varicolor cement floors that contained them. Driving back home, trying to navigate the main road of San Rafael de Ojo de Agua, fiestas notwithstanding, drunks, girls, dogs in the road, people who looked like deer caught in headlights, like some movie with aliens that are all doing group speak, looking vaguely human but devoid of any unique individual traits. Feeling lost, alone, much like an alien myself. Getting home, leaning against the inside of the front door, wondering if any of it had really happened, and the phone rings. It´s Shirley. Did I get home ok, she wanted to know..yes, Shirley, how special you are, how unique, full of heart, such a leader, a strong determined chica..yes, Shirl´, i got home ok. Thank you and goodnight.
take care Civi´..this was for you..
katie
At least for my slideshow, the editing of the audio was the only part that took some real work. I used final cut pro to take the snippets of sound to blend together and to synch the audio with the pictures. From there, I exported the one long audio track, then put it all together in Soundlides Pro. Like I said in the comments for my essay, I’m sure there is an easier way of doing it, but I was guestimating my way through.
KATIE, THE ONLY STREET FIGHTER…
Did you get home???
KATIE…YOU are the Unique, full of heart,the leader,the strong determined chica…
It took me 30 minutes to read your posting …very ” thick” for a Civilian with special needs …
BUT I felt like I was there …as BURNIAN AUDREY would have said…!!!
I am honored !!! what a surreal scribbling …
P.S I LOVE YOU ..this is for you :)))
I am a young soul trapped in a body …Shrek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NEU6Xf7lM&feature=related
SURREAL …
EMCD ,
I am honored again!!! I take my copy …you take your key and the organic olive oil .
WHAT IS NOT TO LOVE !!!
Erica…thank you…I am sending good energy …I see no more migraines for you…
You have the power …
Keep it BURN LADIES, keep it up BURNIANS …I count on YOU !!!
and since PANOS is traveling …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTiXoMCppw&feature=related
Leonard Cohen
take a book from MR.SIDNEY’S list …find a cozy corner…make a hot coffee…
and ENJOY…you deserve it.
and before I go…
AUSSIES …this is for you
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/oct/18/yacht-round-the-world
VIVA, may the travel spirits be with YOU !!!
one more thing …KATIE…
the whole party scene feels more like Almodovar-esque to me:)))
Cheerios
like MR.HARVEY..Harbest or Harvest
Erica and Jim, Thank you for the info. Much appreciated.
… and brian, thanks for your insight too. (I’m answering before reading all posts.)
Civi
Many moons ago, my own little sailing adventure began in your country. We had a couple of misadventures too like the time we missed Pilos (despite the lighthouse) and only just caught sight of Kythera at the end of the third day crossing over from Italy, just in time to avoid heading off to Libya. And then there was a storm that night and all of us who were in the harbour got into trouble with the harbour master the next day. He fined us all (about half a dozen boats) one hundred pounds for not keeping our mast lights on all night. Granted, it was a minor tragedy, but a Greek tragedy nevertheless. I hope this girl makes it, not so much for the glory but because the uproar will be hideous if it goes wrong. Thanks for thinking of us.
DAH:
Yes, you are right, but the the group at Eddie Adams this year, in 2009, was not really the wanna be newspaper crowd. As we all know, the industry has changed and there are fewer and fewer staff positions. The young photographers this year seemed to be a more varied bunch. In the final night slideshows, the work I saw was indeed better than what I see in most newspapers and many of these guys were in their early to mid 20s! Of course the quality of one’s work is always paramount, but talking it up with editors over a beer to two doesn’t hurt I have found!
Civilian
I am soooo moved..i must have 6 Leonard Cohen albums and never hear that song before! (I never saw Shrek) I have spent the last hour listening to every different version pssible, from the illustrious songwriter himself to Bon Jovi to Jeff Buckley..and the one you posted to me, this one, is by far my favorite of ¨HALLELUJAH¨.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NEU6Xf7lM&feature=related
¨Your faith was strong but you needed proof¨
*sigh*
indeed..
my deepest gracias and much love, my dearest Civilian :)))
ur katie street fighter
Jeff Buckley’s “Grace” is one the best albums ever released.
And of course there is also his father Tim… “Dolphins” and “Phantasmagoria In Two” are two of my all time favorite songs…
ALL
Saw this interview with Robert Storr, US critic, curator and dean of the Yale School of Art..as so often happens, i think this is great advice for photographers as well as artists. If you have something interesting and worthy to say, it doesn´t matter how old you are. You gotta say what you gotta say so say it and keep saying it, dammit!
TAN: What kind of advice are you giving art students now?
RS: I’m telling them that this is actually a fine
time to be in art school because, when I was in
art school, when a lot of people I admire were in
art school in the 1960s and 1970s, there was no
money. If you go into it knowing that you will
probably not be rewarded lavishly, but you can in
fact continue to work, you’re on a much better
footing than if you go into it trying to make a
huge impact when you’re 23 or 24, and then
maintain that for the next 60 years. You know
John Baldessari is someone whom everyone admires,
but people by and large forget that he destroyed
all of his “successful work” and started all over
again. I’m interested in people who make good
art, whenever they make it, and I think a lot of
the best artists today are late bloomers. I’m a
big fan of both Raoul De Keyser and Tom
Nozkowski, who I put in the Venice Biennale
[2007]. Tom is 65 and Raoul is 78 and neither one
of them really hit it until they were way past
the age when most people think it would be the
end of your career.
TAN: Maybe there’s less of a focus on the cult of youth.
RS: There isn’t less of a focus yet, but it’s
going to dawn on people that it’s not working.
It’s always nice to be a coming attraction, but
it’s murder to be a has-been. If it hasn’t
happened for you yet, you can at least console
yourself with the idea that it might. It’s a
fashionable world and even good artists go out of
fashion. If you’ve never really thought about
what you’re going to do when you go out of
fashion because you’ve never been out of fashion,
it’s much harder to take than if you’ve gradually
come into your own, gotten through difficult
times and know that you can survive.
Best all,
Kathleen
Civi
Almodovar-esque..yes, more to the point..perhaps..except for the fiestas..
LOVE YOU
k-
Katie;
Re; Leonard Cohen, “Take me to the slaughterhouse and I will wait there with the lambs…” I wish I had the intelligence to dream up words like that…
Cohen played here for the first time in years, and they reckon that by the end of the concert the first ten or so rows were 18 to 20-something girls swooning over him! The power of words…..
I wanted to go but had a choice between cohen or The Who and couldn’t afford both…
Cheers
Bucharest update: New Blog Post – New project in progress: Bucharest 20 Years Later (Continued): http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/new-project-in-progress-bucharest-20-years-later-continued/
David AH
“although networking is way way over rated as aiding any kind of career move in general…means nothing unless you have something special to offer……”
I found this comment kind of surprising, as it is the the opposite of what other photographers kept telling us the two years I studied photography. But then most of them were usually commercial/fashion photographers; do you think networking has more value there than in other areas of photography?
bjarte.
“the opposite of what other photographers kept telling us the two years I studied photography”
i was not one of those photographers, i hope..
:o)
i know you have not asked me – yet feel obliged as a past teacher of yours to answer..
for my part, networking did not get me anywhere as i could not do it well, had no website and did not live in london.
one or two very genuine meetings with like minded editors were worth 10 ‘schmoozing’ parties.. and gave me work which led to more work.. which led to>>> so on.
i have only had a ‘proper’ website a few years, and once working very rarely showed a folio at all.. although i did always carry a small set of 5by4 prints to show interested people.
finding and targeting a client who’s product you admire for it’s content and style, with an idea which would drop into their pages / gallery effortlessly, will bring results .. much more than a general network will do – my thoughts only, knowing, as i do, your best work.
i think once we know what we really need, the path opens out much more clearly >>
starting with a definite goal makes life very much easier than simply networking, which i perceive as a more general exercise..
it could be a gallery show, book, first client or commercial job for you – – – decided what you need to do and then program how to do it.. one thing will lead to another.
see you in bergen next month ?
if so, why not plan to have an exhibition of your ‘travelling’ project.. plan to visit a gallery venue when here..
d
David B; Didn’t you mention that you were shooting some work on punk music recently? How did it work out?
Of course you have to have the work to begin with, but certainly meeting editors face to face, having an espresso with them, talking about others things even than your own work and photography can humanize you a lot and so you are not just a name but someone they remember as an interesting, committed person. If you have strong work and they get along with you and know they can depend on you then you are on your way.
Re; meeting editors face to face.
You also get to learn what may be coming up in the mag regarding trends etc. But also, most importantly you make a personal relationshiop with that editor which generally serves you well in the future. As long as you have the style of work they are looking for of course.
One thing you notice in a small country like NZ is how often you meet editors you’ve previously worked with on new mags. It’s nearly always an entry into that new mag. Also; be nice to editorial assistants because you just may meet them again as editors!! :-)
ross – was working in croatia over the summer again and yes. i have good connections into the punk scene since beginning to photograph there in 2005.. or 6 ? hmm…
the plan now is to go ‘on the road’ at some point in the new year / late this year period with the most widely known group in the region – the lead singer of which is a friend. they have a new album out, but the longer story i have been snapping started a while ago.
*if you don’t care – stop reading here and go straight to the bottom for the shorter version*
a few years ago he and i drove 12 hours, (around bosnia, for one reason n another), for him to visit a gig n mutual friends in serbia – his first time there since the war..
he was utterly nervous about it and had no idea how he would react, (if we even got there), having lost his father and something of his childhood during the war.. problems.. problems..
we arrived in novi sad tired, went to the event.. he met a like-mind there.. kind of a serbian mirror to his life.. and aided by some magic, (and mutual friends), made foundations with people..
at that time, on the way back, he refused to even stop for a piss or petrol until we had crossed the border again into croatia, yet today he is taking his band on tour around the region – in an inspired and honest effort to bring the kids together again, (what he calls “the most important thing he has ever done”)..
he runs a small festival with this in mind and also preaches tolerance to a mostly right wing crowd..
he’s a dude really.. well hooked up with now mutual friends in the north OF ireland and serbia.. who have been doing just what he is now doing.. with music for a backdrop.. and the play on stage being love.. regardless of the type of sounds.
*if you didn’t care and are looking for the short story, start reading again here*
the work i’ve done in ireland, serbia and croatia has without a doubt been the most inspiring to me.. real positive effects which can be SEEN..
besides, they’re nutty, innit..
http://www.bophoto.co.uk/blog/images/blog26garden/6.jpg (in 2007)
seriously – an espresso meeting helped me about as much as an m8 without uv filter.
i don’t think i have ever discussed photography or my own work with any editor who has commissioned me – and in fact there are very few editors who have regularly used me that i have actually met.
when i have met them, usually on commission, coffee has been the last intoxicant considered for consumption.
i know it probably depends upon the size of the place you live..
in england it just did not seem to matter who you knew – in norway, where everyone went to school with each other and has dinner together on tuesdays, it’s difficult to crack into it.
i rarely showed a folio in the u.k., only had a website for the last few years and, although i would always carry 6by4 prints, the last thing to do was talk about me.. work or photography wise.
the story / event / subject was all my editors were ever interested in..
i’d like to buy many of them a beer to say thanks, of course, however so many of the magazines i have worked for folded in time, i’d have no idea how to contact them.
http://bophoto-mumblings.blogspot.com/2008/08/its-desk.html
in fact the 10 or 12 years of music work which followed could be attribute to one woman – the first, and one of the few, photo editors i actually did meet called michelle.
a 5 min folio showing and some good eye contact in a crowded corridor-like office in central london..
i’m being obnoxious.. time for bed..
apologies.
d
good commissions come from a good idea, research and a few phone calls – it’s cheaper than ‘networking’, less generic and clients consider everyone equal, based on ideas and consistency of output, anyway.
a one time editor of guardian weekend once said to me that be it from magnum, an unknown or the guy who burped beer over her last night – all idea’s are treated equally.
to get regular good work i think it is a case of finding an editor you get along with and staying in the front of their minds by suggesting good content.. if they commission your ideas they will also throw you a bone once in a while.. they will understand what you are trying to do over time and they will help to fund it.. and it only takes 4 or 5 regular
good work begins with our own ideas and a phone call..
the rest is organic food.
bed.. really now.
d
David B; Thanks for that. I’ve always felt that music has a unifying effect, and the more i follow the indie music scene around the more I believe it… Cheers
BJARTE…DAVIN…ALL
SHORT COURSE ON NETWORKING
i do not really know the networking scenario in the fashion/ad world…i do not seek either fashion or ad work, but have done both when an art director wants to take a chance on a doc photog shooting out of his norm….i have had some very good ad campaigns, the very best, and among others a really cool fashion shoot for the NYT fashion magazine in Rio …my own productions…i did not network for any of the above…did not even know the art director i was working for in some cases…now, somebody at Magnum presented my work, my books…they may have been networking for me, but i have always stayed away from directly selling myself…never knocked on an ad agency door in my life unless i was invited up….
the editorial world involves often lifetime friendships which usually develop AFTER everyone has made a mark or a reputation or has a lot of work or whatever….photographers tend to work for one magazine more than another and naturally after many assignments everyone knows everyone in the biz…it is a small world….but, wide open for those with something special to say….we are all looking for the next great talent…why do you think i do Burn???? lookin lookin…
interestingly enough , and right to the point again, i am very close friends with top editors who have never commissioned me and never will commission me…shoe might not fit….i am also often friends the editors who do send me out…on the other hand, i have done many magazine assignments where i have never met the editor who hired me….
the editorial world as i have known it has been very collaborative…i do not just go shoot pictures…i have always been a part of the whole process….idea, production, layout etc etc…i learned early on in my career that one of the keys was to know everyone else’ job…writer, graphic designer, picture editor, news editor, researcher etc etc…be able to at least speak their language and of course know way more about any particular subject than anyone else at the magazine..do not be arrogant…never…just have the knowledge…stay quiet…they will know that you know if you really know……do the above, take a few good pictures, and no need for networking…you will be invited, no need to pander…..
cheers, david
Ross
Really, what i wouldn’t give to see L. Cohen..but oh well, probably not something i will get to do in this lifetime, at least not here in Central ‘Merica. But it’s ok..i have the CD’s. Still, ya know, after forking over my waitress tips to buy “Songs of Leonard Cohen” on vinyl all those years ago..sure would be great to see him at least once after being a fan for so long. The reason females are such rabid fans is because the man loves women, worships at their shrine and writes songs to them afterwards. He’s a legend in his time. And then, well, there are the lyrics.
have a great whatever time it is down there in NZ!
best
kathleen
DAH
don’t want to pander but that was a great post ;)
k/
Kathleen, Ross, Civi…
Believe it or not this performance resurrected Hallelujah, brought it back onto the charts, etc.
Cathy
Hunh! Just watched that video..i have to say i fell head over heels for this song today, wondering how it was i never heard it before. But i made up for it today by watching so many versions of it i practically killed the day just on You Tube. What’s interesting about it is that it seems to come from the very soul of any singer who performs it. Watching the version Civi posted impressed that on me especially..thanks for the info, Cathy!
I think NETWORKING is not everything but a BIG PART of this and any job. David, you said that you have a many friends editors who will never give you a job (reasons not important), but they are your friends, also many photographers. This is like self-moved machine. If you know many people someone give you one job, job which push your own photography foward, you take better pictures and someone else give you another job, you are more selfconfident and you are taking better pictures, then somebody else send you at the end of the world where you are shooting the best pictures of your life, you are going to be famus, the world is on your feet.
I don’t belive that anyone will FIND you. That you will stay in your home full of talent, like diamnod in a ground. Pepole do not see money on the street next to their feet.
Network is not everything, talent is needed indeed, best if they walking togather. Talend is something what need special conditions to gow up.
Of course if you think that if you will know DAH some editor of NYT give you a job you are stoopid like piece of glass, the same way if you think that any editor or curator will knock to your door and will beg you for a pictures.
Many people are surprised why I am not working for magazines or why photography is not my main job, but I am not, I have AWFUL relationships with people. My social life is disaster. If you don’t know how to live with and beetwen people you will never be succeed in this or any job.
but this is who I am.
If you are able to make people belive you, your talent, your vison, don’t wait for anything, just go, be yourself, talk with people, take some best pictures in the world.
Be famous.
Be satisfy.
Be happy.
KD always did a great version other than Cohen …….Buckley is overrated bog time
BURNIANS,
You are one of the luckiest group of people out there !!!
Focus and LISTEN. These words is what I call Wisdom …cause “wisdom” is the result of failures,tears,excitements,agonies, sleepless nights,closed doors,going down and then rising up like my cake…hmmmm..
“…the editorial world as i have known it has been very collaborative…i do not just go shoot ci learned early on in my career that one of the keys was to know everyone else…be able to at least speak their language and of course know way more about any particular subject than anyone else at the magazine..do not be arrogant…never…just have the knowledge…stay quiet…do the above, take a few good pictures, and no need for networking…you will be invited, no need to pander…..”
Especially for the new generation …suggestions like the above is like hidden treasures in our full of self destructed and self absorbed statements…hmmm…
In plain English or Greek…
Damnit BURNIANS…you are so lucky that teachers like MR.HARVEY and others are willing to share with all of you their lifetime experiences… WHAT IS NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S KATIE…I am cooking apple cake ,cinammon on the top …and BURNing chocolata, may the spirits
of BURN be with me !!!
David AH, Great Post
Martin, Great Post.
“stoopid like piece of glass”
love that.
although i don’t agree marcin.. in the commercial photography world there is more of an emphasis on networking – especially on commissions within fashion and other areas where you need to work with a team of people and produce a set of pictures which, frankly, could be produced by anyone with the same equipment and a studio.. hired eye work is very competitive.. business networking events are rubbish though.. like contrived ‘fun’ is rubbish..
you are right to say get out there and do it because no one will find you, and of course looking at burn as a single, stand alone plan for a career is naive.. getting published here could be more of an encouragement – although perhaps it has led to commissions for people? i don’t know..
in the editorial world one strange thing is that when working within it, it does not feel competitive – mainly because if your work is good and tied to who you are, others will not be competing with your ideas.. they will belong to you.. you build up contact with a few good people (4 mag clients at one time will pay just about the rent if working hard) and there will be support .. they do not want to have to keep changing photographers.
david said – do not be arrogant – and quite right.. people want to work with easy going people.. we all want an easy life.. being too proud makes people look stupid when the work disappears.. be grateful, but not too grateful..
bjarte – i think if you found out the picture ed’s name and called dagbladet – asked to be put on the freelancers list for portraits and send them 3 or 4 of your best, they would listen..
likewise with a gallery and your travel narrative..
one thing people forget to do is actually ask for work.. we struggle, moan, snap and process, yet it’s amazing how few photographers ask directly or tailor a proposal for a specific client. people can find us and encourage us, but i still think the work goes to the, (not pushy), well focused people with foresight and the confidence to ask.
.. in addition i actually think you’re in the right place, along with eric, anton and others here who have another stream of income.
when i emigrated and quite the slog of freelancing in the way i used to, for magazines, work was becoming more and more scarce and less and less interesting..
what began as a past-time capable of breaking festivals and bands, spreading the word and gaining satisfaction from that had become an excessive in advertorial editorial.. people advertising ‘got’ good press, and the smaller ethical events i specialized in finding began to fall out of the loop..
i’m not certain that the week in, week out life of on-the-road commissions i had even exists anymore.. one past client told me last week that they simply do not use freelancers at all anymore..
i think for now, until the web settles into a more money orientated commissioning body, the contemporary photographers will not look at it as an income.. but simply as a passion..
perhaps thats just me?>>>
hmm
morning .
d
DAH: I think some of us younger photographers think about the importance of networking because we want to get more work more quickly and don’t want to wait until we are ‘known’ to get assigned work. But I understand all that you say, it really is about the work first and foremost.
And it it true for me that so far, all the assignments I have done have come from editors whom I have never met! All the editors I have sought out and met have never given me anything!!!
David Bowen:
Ok, beer is better when meeting an editor! At The Eddie Adams Workshop last week editors were handing out ber actually to students during portfolio reviews!
Marcin:
Why is your social life a disaster?!
The Aussie/Irish Version – if you open it, stay for the last note.
MARCIN, mate,
you sound so authentic and real…
yeap…especially nowdays with all the competition is too hard to survive if you are a loner…
BUT you are doing very well MARCIN …you are a BURNIAN …and you are doing great !!!
P.S baby suggestion …if I may…BELIEVE in YOU…and the others will follow :)))
Anyways,are you coming for apple cake …???
Over…SPACECOWBOY …my gracie, the BURN muse…
Street fighter …DavidB , the obnoxious no more…Cake is BURNED …over
ANDREAC,
cake is BURNed BUT at least I have your photos,Music and all of YOU …BURNIANS
it’s raining in Greece…what IS not to SHOOT ??? allelouia
davin – beer is the least of it, although i wish we were allowed to get the students lubricated for truth in collage.. i still fear i was a little soft on occassion – and our very own BJARTE was always telling me to be tougher on work, and the causes of work. :o)
in our job a strong constitution is needed on occasion, and the ‘right’ eyes to see through.
we’re the same generation i think – only 6 years younger than me – and it’s still all about those first commissions, which you have done.. maximize each one and it could flow good.. i’m sure you are aware already.
as an aside, aren’t snappers all walking disasters in one way or another?
scruffy, at least..
it’s why i cannot work with the public..
luckily editors are much more understanding.
some.
d
the moomins are on telly and tor capa is excited.. must run.
d
On Saturday afternoon, I had the pleasure of meeting John Gladdy and his famous photographer friend Brett Walker :))
We took a walk along the buffer zone and conducted a very serious and in-depth discussion about the philosophical principles that govern the relationship between photography and reality… the results will be out in paperback next spring :))
Here are some pictures of them in action…
http://www.tzalavras.com/John_and_Brett/index.html
REIMAR,
We miss you mate !!! Our Patricia is very busy lately, and we haven’t had any updates …
KATIA ROBERTS,
may the spirits be with you !!!
BURNIANS,
I LOVE YOU ALLL…and KATIE…write a book or something …
THODORIS,
this is what I call …BURNIANS in action !!!
What is NOT to SHOOT !!! My favorite number 10 …
P.S I see that you have to have strong, flexible fingers to be a photographer…hmmmm…
Thodoris
So which one’s which? I’m guessing John is in the purple shirt, right? wrong?
Marcin
don’t worry, you aren’t the only one with a social life in the dead zone..maybe it’s your nature. But for some others it’s the price of devoting oneself to art. Nobody can do it all. Something has to go. Your camera will always be your friend..maybe a stubborn, uncooperative friend at times but still it won’t exactly get up and move to another part of the world or decide it doesn’t like you anymore or borrow money from you and not pay it back. Your camera’s always there waiting for you. No matter what. Don’t fret about the friend thing and not being comfortable with people. Having a lot of friends is very overrated. ALL those e-mails! Ick!!! And hey, besides, you have a LOT of friends here! Just like Civi said..you are the real deal. smile, Marcin..i even like your Cuba work and i don’t like very much Cuba work..the shot of the kid running down the sidewalk is amazing.
Civilian
ohhh, i love burned cake. it’s so, so, well, carcinogenic! Save the end piece for me, k?
Inmants
I listened to the KD Lang version..i dunno, it’s like she was trying too hard. And that weird outfit and bare feet. whoa. But i don’t care what she looks like. I really didn’t like all the drama she put into the song. And i am a KD fan, but not this particular song. Am liking more and more L. Cohen’s version the best. He brings a billion years of history and experience and pain to his lyrics.
ok, time to sleep..’night all..
kathleen
Civilian
write a book..sheesh..you and your books..
i miss Gracie too darnit..where is that girl?!?!
late nights with out Grace and Civilian aren’t worth staying up late for.
you take over the bar, Civilian..i’m crashing!
‘night sweets
k/
Civi
It’s raining in paradise too. Hallelujah! :-)
Go to sleep BURNIANS in few hours WEST Universe will wake up and …Hallelujah …oime
spirits of the world …na,na,na
KATIE…go crashing like my cake …hihihi…and John must be the guy with the middle flexible finger:)))
ANDREAC…loved your Irish/Aussie Version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_lxNcICqE
Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain by Hank Williams
VIVA
Jim:
Everybody knows this bud’s for you..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q63plx5NClI
best
kat-
Civilian
i am gonna pay for this late hour tomorrow..but got seduced by You Tube yet again today..ok, well, i like fallen, burned cakes..’specially if cooked up by our favorite mass audience civilian type..ok..really gone now..
ur katie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmCpOKtN8ME
“I’m Singing in the rain”, Gene Kelly
TRALLLALLLLL…yioupiiiiiiiiii
KATHLEEN FONSECA,
may the spirits of sweet sleep be with YOU … you can go now…:)))
LOVE LOVE LOVE …all we need is BURN !!!
Kathleen…
John is the one with the Leicas…
Definitely didn’t expect that much advices and discussion around networking when I asked about this yesterday, but obviously it’s something that a lot of you have strong opinions on. For me, who is WAY at the beginning of it all, it feels very important to get all these advices. I appreciate all you have written about it very much:
The David’s
Marcin
Dellicson
Ross
Mr. Bowen:
Yes, see you next month. And yes, contacting Dagbladet and a gallery in Bergen are good ideas. I have already sent the woman responsible for the gallery at ‘Sølvberget’ in Stavanger an e-mail about the project… Will phone Sølvberget if she does not reply, because it is one of my biggest goals at the moment; to get the project exhibited there. Yesterday was a great relief for me as I finally decided that I will quit my non-photography-job in late may next year, so it will be only photography from then on.
Ok, I will definitely need to copy all the relevant text from this dialogue into a text document and print it so I can have all these advices available to read all the time.
and with the tattoos …:)))
THEODORIS …What IS not to SHOOT !!!
Bjarte Edvardsen,
yes, Copy and paste …the suggestions in your brain cells …you sound like a young soul !!!
We wish you Happy shooting days !!!
good one bjarte.. although stavanger is a very strange place in terms of photography, music and art.. a tightly bound, self preserving bunch .. some good folk to be found though.. will think on it…
hmm..
we’ll chat when you visit bergen..
big-man JOHN G has a leica on his shoulder.
:o)
CIVILIAN…
thats all..
just CIVILIAN>>>>>> x
bjarte – find HANS EDWARD in my facebook friends list and talk to him about stavanger and the K-lab connections :o)
bjarte could well be the real deal – if he up picking fruit.
if he GIVEs UP picking fruit, that is.
he had a rubbish teacher though.
just stuck on burn slideshows and drank coffee…
DAVIDB…
you might not be that young…BUT the heart of a big teacher stays always young…
therefore …hmmm …I don’t want to sound obnoxious …BUT you are a big teacher !!!
and don’t try to X me again
I am very sensitive with the …>>>>X … I like circles ()LOVE …hihihi
I am going to work…I am late …
RUUUNN O
db. Just picked the camera up, all good, hope it helped.
Thodoris. Whos the fat bastard in the combat pants??? :)
MARCIN …DAVIN
i will come back to this subject because it is very important…now, i have to go catch a plane, leaving behind my cat and my beach and my students, to go to new york….for networking!!! laughing…yes, i am trying to get some sponsorship or funding for Burn..but i am only networking in the atmosphere of the Lucie Awards dinner where we ended up certainly with no personal networking…
i do have strong answers for you both…Davin, of course i was doing assignments long before i was “known”….i got “known” i suppose because i did a lot of assignments!! every generation has this same networking mentality….thinking about it will kill you…believe me…all of the so called networkers in my generation are long long gone…Marcin, rushing out the door…you have some of it right, but not exactly..we must get it exactly..smiling…
ok , back soonest…
cheers, david
email address please David Imants……. thanks
Good morning Burnians!
Europe is already busy…
Yes, Civi, you are right I should have given an update long time ago. Mea culpa!
I am much, much better and almost back to normal. The progress in the last few weeks was very subtle and I hardly noticed it. I still drink lots of green tea and try to eat lots of vegetables and take it slow. Yesterday I looked at the picture of me that Patricia took 2 weeks ago and I could see the difference very clearly. There is a bit of paralysis still in my face, but I hardly notice it anymore. It is simply that blinking the eye and some other movements don’t always come automatically so I have to use my will and tell my eye to blink.
Last week I was shooting overweight children doing sport. One of the girls asked me straight away: „Is there anything wrong with your eye?“ Wrong question! Boy, I never thought that I am so full of vanity. That evening I looked in the mirror and I thought the girl was right and I felt real ugly. I guess we are all human ;-) Then I programmed the lower lid of my eye: move! And after some days the first slight movements came back and it got better and better. There is hope! It just takes a while and I have to keep beiing patient.
Yesterday was a nice sunny autumn day with little wind so I felt it was a good time to do a bit of exercise. I went for a 1 1/2 hour leisurely walk which was really nice, but afterwards I was really tired. So there is some catching up to do as well.
I am very thankful for this speedy recovery and the support that the Burninans gave me!
My life is rather boring these days so there is little to write about, but last Friday I felt like back to normal.
In the afternoon I was having some tasty home made cherry cake with coffee with the staff of the paper I work for. Nothing much was going on and we all had a cheerful afternoon. But from my experience I knew this wouldn’t last very long.
Around 6 p.m. I went off with a writer to take some picture of something and on my way I got the first call: someone had driven his car into the entrance of a supermarket. I dropped the writer off and she had to take the picture of I don’t know what and I went straight to this supermarket. It was raining and the roads were busy. At the supermarket the police told me what happened: a 64 year old driver of a Mercedes tried to get his car into a parking lot, facing the entrance of a supermarket. He slipped off the break and hit the gas pedal of his automatic car instead and so he went straight into the entrance. Luckily nobody got hurt. I took a picture and kept going.
The next thing I had to photograph was the opening of the local Oktoberfest. Cheerful people in Lederhosen and merry girls in a Dirndl (traditional Bavarian dress) surrounded me. A „Huba-band“ played moody songs and I took some pictures of the happy folks dancing on the table and lifting big beer glases into the air. So I got my pictures and when I went outside it was already pitch black dark, still rainy and windy.
The main fire station was in front of me and I saw several ambulances leaving. Not a good sign. And a few minutes later I got the call to drive to the autobahn (motorway) to take pictures of a car crash. When I arrived at the point that I was directed to all I found was an empty autobahn. I met up with a colleague and he said he would know a short cut. Okay off we went in search of another access way to the autobahn. The roads got smaller and smaller and in the end we drove on some totally muddy unpaved side ways. Empty fields on both sides and heavy rain making driving more a kind of sliding. My worn down tires were not ideal for that slippery experience and so I was moving from one side to the other and I thought: please don’t stop! Luckily we reached some solid tarmac again and got to the site of the accident. I knew it was a bad accident and I decided that I wanted to keep my distance. I was not really up to facing a bad accident. The police told us that a bus full of children had hit a van. The driver of the van had died. The driver of the bus and the other people in the van were injured. The police allowed us to take some images from a distance. The scene was brightly lit so I didn’t had to use a flash. Everyone was silent and calm. In my head the time was ticking because of the deadline for the images. After a while another bus came to pick up the children. None of the kids were injured. I took some images and then I headed back to the newsroom. I managed to get the pictures there in time and my editors and I were pleased with the results. They were no shocking images but more of quiet moments that said it all. Nothing special, but it felt right on that day. So that was certainly a day back to “normal”…
Tomorrow university will start again and now I have to prepare some stuff for my students.
Everybody, have a nice day and remember to drive safely!
Best
Reimar
John, Thodoris,
the images of Nicosia looked familiar to me. Christian Kaiser, a friend and former fellow student documented the border region in Cyprus in 2001. His work is part of a book that we published about the new EU member countries in 2002
http://www.g-a-l-e-r-i-e.de/virtual-museum/magazin/12/zypern/cyprus1.html
…….. it’s ok I found the address it was under a rock.
john g – great :o) superb stuff.. really helped.. very much
reimar – great :o) superb stuff.. back to snappin with full force
david – great :o) superb stuff.. it’s difficult.. i can only speak from experience about what worked for me..
looking forward
d
ALL
as to networking etc.
have a look here.
http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/10/16/how-art-producers-find-the-right-photographer-for-the-project/
It is pretty much my experience, too. And I’ve been working for ad agencies for the last 10 years or more – financing my life as a student with it and now my private projects. Was having a chat with DavidB last night where we looked at the similarities of our experiences. Quite striking.
I am on the road.
So … cheers to all and good light!
Reimar,
I’m glad to hear that things are almost better for you.
Re photographing in India:
Does anyone have any opinions on the greatest pictures of rural India? Or the greatest photographer/s of India? Is it Steve McCurry? Anyone else? Has there been a Burn essay on India? (There doesn’t seem to be a Burn index and whenever I’ve gone back to look in the archive, I’ve got stuck).
If Vivek is still around, do you have any indian names that you care to throw around ie, in terms of art photography or documentary? Srini, do you know any interesting Indian photographers? Particularly anyone who is recent and of course I mean who are shooting in India not elsewhere. Is there a photography school over there? Which is the best art school? If you happen to know. I’m looking for stuff that’s out of the usual, a bit contemporary. I’m going to Kolkata (amongst other places) perhaps there is something there I could check out.
Guys
I have completly no problem with my relationships with world. Really. I am who I am. If I really wanted have more network I probably force myself for that. I am like cat, walk on my own paths. No regrets. No problems. I love that.
BUT if someone will ask me “do networks are important” I will always say “as hell”, the same as talent. I see it everywhere. Even in art where talent should be 100% of sucess.
is more less 30%
Thats the human nature. You have to know with whom drink with, we say in poland.
Nobody looks at cracks.
Talent and networks is like wheels and engine in car, both make you driving, without one your drive will tire you.
Even God if I’m not wrong said; Human should not live alone.
So drink a lot, with important people…
(laughing)
CMA, Kathleen
Thanks for your comments :)
marcin.. much more important to be respectful to everyone than seek out ‘important’ people to drink with..
i just don’t buy it..
once i had a working client list, they were important.. as a network.. but ‘networking’ is something different to me, and something i have not had to go through.. a network of trusted work colleagues and ‘networking’ are different things.
different strokes for different strokes and all that – the old cliche about ‘as many ways into photography as there are photographers’ is a trueism..
specifically though, and again in response to bjarte personally – i don’t think any kind of contrived networking circuit will be good for him.
meet the people you need to to get the work out there.. do not pretend to be friends or seek to socialize with colleagues until it has become a natural next-step..
if you’re firm in your direction i think ‘networking’ could be counterproductive.. if you’re generally looking for commercial work, perhaps there is a place for it..
again though.. i’ve not done it..
much better to make genuine connections on the rough n smooth of the road..
strokes for folks of course.
courses for horses to be right.
right hand and left hand can both be correct.
Thanks for the Advice David … makes a lot of sense … I imagine serendipity has a little bit to do with it? I can’t speak outright for the documentary/journalism world because I am not yet fully in it, but in general I see a lot of mediocrity … even in journalism … it’s sad, but also seems to be part of the world, just as much a part of it as is greatness. Maybe I’m wrong, but today the beast has a lot more to pick from … its nature seems to be changing …
… thank goodness for Burn.
Reimar
I missed Patricia´s photo of you! boo-hoo!! You have my e-mail, please send it to me (?) so i can see for myself just how grotesque you have become..haha..NOOO, it´s not possible, please don´t worry..your story about willing your lower eyelid to move made me think of a bit of text in Peter van Agtmael´s recent book ¨2nd Tour, Hope I don´t Die¨ about an injured soldier in Iraq. He realized he could not move the fingers of one hand. Even though he had been drifting in and out of cosciousness, this discovery made him panic. He focused intensely, willing his fingers to move. After a time, very slowly they began to respond. He relaxed and sank into exhaustion.
The mind is an amazing part of the healing process. Both to stimulate recovery and also to control stress, for example, as you did when you knew that getting too close to that accident was not something you could do right now. Also, you use your mind to make changes in your lifestyle. I am so glad to hear of your improvement and one day you will laugh here at how it´s all become a bad memory and nothing more.
So glad to hear that you are working..this occupies the mind and the time and also improves self-esteem. You sound really like you are doing great! Keep going :))
best
Kathleen
John…
He’s a mythical creature… once upon a time (as the story goes…) there was a thing called “film” and there were many people looking very much like this guy, exercising some sort of primitive magic trying to capture what they perceived to be reality with it… their efforts were called “street photography”, and (supposedly) you could see them lurking around caring their heavy metal apparatus either early in the morning or late in the afternoon… (also, according to an elder in my village, some of them used to raise white mice, paint them gray and after training them, reintroducing them to the wild… go figure…) anyway, I didn’t believe these stories to tell you the truth, that is until I came across this prime specimen of that forgone species. He looked pretty edgy at a first glance, but after following him around for a bit I can honestly say that he seemed to possess a gentle soul… John…
Kathleen,
no worries, I will send you the image. Patricia will take a picture of me in a few weeks time and I hope to be back to “normal” ;-)
Andrea C,
never been to India, but I am dreaming of going there for a long, long time. Here is a link of an interesting photographer from Dhaka in Bangladesh. Check this out:
http://www.munemwasif.com/home.html
They do great stuff, very much inspired by Magnum. There is a photo school in Dhaka, but I couldn’t find the link anymore. Munem Wasif will know it.
Good luck!
Reimar
thank you Dominik for letting me put up one of your photos from burn gallery opening night on my site in the NEWS section at http://www.ericamcdonaldphoto.com..i want to spread the word that the gallery is happening!
DAH..
is there a date for when the work moves to FotoWeek DC?
dig this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8-kqovVjss
I’ve been following our recent discussion with interest, but am still unclear as to what is meant by the word “networking.” I looked it up on Google and couldn’t even find a definition. I’m guessing we’re talking about spending time with people in your field, especially those whom you hope will be helpful to your getting assignments and/or having your personal work published, all of which will, hopefully, lead to your gaining some degree of recognition and success in that field.
I am such a newbie to the world of photography that I feel somewhat shy about posting any comments at all about this subject. But sometimes those who are new might see things the oldtimers take for granted. I also have to say that I have no illusions about becoming a “professional” photographer in any sense of the word. I am at a stage of life where the idea of starting a new career that will bring me “fame and fortune” is ludicrous. I am simply doing what I love to do and hoping to become better at it as I go along. But right now I am in the middle of a push to have my personal work published as a book.
I recall DAH starting a thread on Road Trips about the importance of having a mentor, someone who believes in you and your work, to help you move forward in the field. The link is
https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2008/06/f8-and-be-there/#comments
Little did I know at that time that David would become that person for me. No, I did no “networking” to get him interested in my work, unless posting comments and links on his blog could be considered networking. Hey, maybe it is! Maybe today’s form of schmoozing in a bar is hanging out together in an online forum. Anyway, having David Alan Harvey on your side is like having a key that opens doors you didn’t even know existed. Yes, I have still had to find and knock on some of those doors myself — I can’t expect DAH to do everything — but his confidence in me has given me confidence in myself. And, to my way of thinking, confidence is key. Yes, your work needs to be good, but you need to know and believe in it yourself. It is that confidence — NOT vanity — in yourself as a photographer that comes across to editors who are considering you for an assignment or publishers who are considering publishing your book. You need to feel that what you are doing has value and will in some way benefit those who see it.
My personal experience has been that once you get going on a project that means a lot to you, once it meets with approval from someone you respect, and once you work it and work it and work it until you can’t go any further, then the magic happens. But magic doesn’t come out of nowhere; you have to, as they say, “f/8 and be there.” I am now at the stage where, thanks to DAH, thanks to a number of people with whom I’ve recently connected, thanks to my willingness to go where I need to go (as in travel), and thanks to an amazing confluence of events, my work is going places I could never have imagined. But that doesn’t mean I can sit back and relax. No, now is the time that I must work harder than ever to see my project become a book. And maybe more. Who knows? As I’ve said before, life is such an adventure!
I don’t know if any of this is helpful; I only hope it doesn’t come across as self-promoting. That is NOT where I’m at. Yes, I’m trying to promote my project, but not myself. If anything, the farther down this path I travel, the less important I become and the more important the work becomes. May it serve a worthy purpose.
Patricia
Thodoris
The reason i was confused was because i thought both guys in the photo were photographers. Maybe i didn´t ready your post well. So if the guy in purple was not a photographer, obviously, duh, kathie, the guy with the Leicas was John. I wasn´t blind, just confused.
I like Johm´s work a lot and like also his comments here which i (almost) always agree with. So happy you two had a chance to connect. hmm…now, where was Civilian? There you all were in Greece and no Civilian Mass Audience. In fact, i can´t believe you and Civi have not met? Or have you and i missed that as well?
Anyway, ok, no need to respond, John´s a gentle soul with an edgy mind, two Leicas and a street shooter. What not to love??????????????
off to work
kathleen
ready=read
Patricia
I like your post. It’s another angle that has a lot of truth value in it too. I don’t feel I can contribute anything to this discussion but I’m just going “Yes” each time someone writes in depth about their personal take on it. I’m not even at the stage where I need to worry about it too much.
Reimar
Thank for the link. I am looking. :-)
Herve
What do you mean by this – your comment on John Busch’s work?
“…but ok, you just defined what photography is for most people taking it to the next level, and out the door.”
I’m not even sure if its praise or criticism. What are you saying?
networking..might help your email get through
ERICA…
laughing..yes yes
Networking
I was just checking out the link to Vivien Maier again. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/114973503
I wonder how many amazing photographers died in obscurity.
Her story is a reminder of the fact that great talent and great photographs will not automatically result in the world beating a path to your door.
I think of networking as anything we do on a personal level to expand the number of people aware of what we do. DAH clearly has developed an enormous personal network over the years. BURN is a network, as are other web sites. Your relatives are a network, service clubs and volunteer agencies are networks. The list is endless. It is putting yourself and your work out there. It is piece of marketing and selling ourselves.
Selling is not a bad word. Convincing an editor to hire you is selling. Just to repeat myself, the world will not beat a path to your door just because you make great photographs. Instead, the sheriff may beat a path to your door to seize your stuff to sell at an auction.
This does not bode well unfortunately for those who are not confident, energetic and gregarious. Come to think of it, I cannot think of any successful photographer I’ve ever met who is not confident, energetic and gregarious.
Getting back to Vivien Maier, I hope her story somehow comes to light. Despite her obvious talent, I suspect she was not the kind of person I describe above.
MARCIN….
ok, i know what you are saying….Koudelka did sleep on floors…became known for sleeping on floors…he did sleep on the right floors…the floors of curators etc….but, he also had the photographs from Gypsies in his backpack too…just sleeping on curators floors would have done nothing….
you are networked enough too my friend…we are online friends ….right?? that is all the networking you need…if you do a powerful personal project essay, i will publish you on Burn and your networking is DONE…..you will not have to do one more thing…promise…
just look at Alejandro Chekielsburg….our EPF grantee….i have never met him…i do not know anyone who has met him….we just love his work…..period…there is no doubt in my mind he is a rising star just because of the work…i imagine he will give Magnum a try….he might become a nominee….90% of the members voting on him will (a) have never heard of him (b) will never have met him ….let’s wait and see what happens, but i will bet with no networking at all , he will move up fast…..he is most likely too busy working to be networking….
it is true that nobody will just “find you”….but, putting your work out for all to see is very very easy these days….much easier than ever before…..it is also true that the pure networkers will often get to a certain level…but, they do not last….they just don’t…i have seen it over and over…fast rise, fast crash….
what works, and i have said this at least a hundred times here on Burn, is a well thought out personal project…NOT a string of assignments….the personal project is the only thing that works…..show that personal project to ONE person who has influence in the biz, and your networking is over…just ONE….the word spreads quickly…as i also have said many times, we are looking for talent…seriously looking…if the talent really exists, it will be discovered unless the photographer is literally hiding…
buying a cold beer for the “right person”?? hmmmm, most likely just another cold beer….
cheers, david
KATHLEEN…
You got it right the first time… both of them are photographers… some of Brett’s work can be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brettwalker/sets/72157600025141993
As for Civi, we didn’t manage to meet due to technical difficulties… maybe next time…
REIMAR…
Thanks for the link… I suppose that your friend’s work was commissioned by the EU…
Agios Sozomenos has some of the most graphic relics of abandoned buildings… have done some shooting there myself…
hi katie-cakes and civi,
ive just read the pingpong exchange between yous.
sounds like a fun unsafe night but for some reason
all i could remember was arroz con pollo among friends.
ive been missing yous.
hi to everybody!!!
nice to see anton snoozing. thanks dah. its about time you featured anton.
Hey Gracie, welcome home! You’ve been missed. Hope all is well with you.
xxoooo
Patricia
hi patricia,
i took a picture of zac falling asleep in front of the laptop showing your ‘falling’ website picture.
i thought it was pretty neat to get that look of him so rested in my lap.
i hope most of your book fixins are coming along fine.
ive been quite pleased with how generous you have been with thankyous and your oodles of respect shows.
that is enough networking and i think when you know and remember where you come from,
where youre going is gonna be boundless.
wish you lotsaluv and lucks. plural!
Thank you so muuch, dear Gracie. BTW I’d love to see the pic of Zac asleep in your lap. Any chance you could email me a copy?? playdorsey@comcast.net
Patricia
Networking these days means more than just hobnobbing with some photo, media, or gallery luminary. You also have to find ways of connecting to an audience, and if you don’t know who your audience is then you have your work cut out for you. Photography projects don’t get published because they are good — they get published because someone believes they have value to a community of readers, viewers, collectors, etc. The better you cultivate your audience, the more seriously a publisher will take you.
DAH
I’m not quite sure what to make of your last post. You make it sound like the only thing a talented photographer need do is to develop a marketable personal project, and become “discovered” by the right little circle of people.”you will not have to do one more thing”
Now I appreciate that this sort of thing can literally happen. And maybe within the PJ/Docu/Magnum sphere that is the only thing a young photogrpaher can hope for. However there is only so much room up there.
I must assure you, aspiring photographers who want to earn a living with their craft outside of the NatGeo world need to take the business of photography very seriously. In my world, the moment you stop marketing and networking, you are dead in the water. I too have watched many many photographers crash and burn over the years.
Preston
” they get published because someone believes they have value to a community of readers, viewers, collectors, etc.” …..and therefore make a profit to keep themselves employed and keep their shareholders happy. The bottom line is of course the bottom line.
DAH
I just found out that Bobby Model died…
I remember us all hanging out in Jackson together….
what a great spirit….
om shanti…
***
DAH
http://alvarezphoto.typepad.com/.a/6a00e551a5897b8833010536fb7e0f970b-800wi
xox
OK All
You all have to run out and buy this book…seriously. This is important.
“What matters. The worlds preeminent photojournalists and thinkers depict essential issues of our time.”
http://vewd.org/index.php/news/article/book_review_what_matters_created_by_david_elliot_cohen/
Salgado, Natchtwey, Meiselas, Kashi, etc etc etc.
Jim, there is a “what you can do” section at the back of the book.
GORDON…
i am sure you are quite correct…correct for your world and what you believe in, stand for and work towards…i have great respect for your world Gordon…now, just imagine i am the same as you in terms of my own “photographic life”…the “sphere” to which you refer is indeed my world..one which i sought, worked hard for, and believe in….i am talking the Magnum sphere, not Natgeo (another thing entirely) i am sure the photographers i mentor are looking to move into that “sphere” or within reasonable proximity….so , how would i look at photographers and photography any other way?? i know what i did, i know what others have done, and i know what has become of young photographers with whom i have worked…how could i, or why would i, somehow set priorities and goals for the photographers who come to me in some democratic middle ground??…i know there are many other spheres than my sphere…but, i aim for the high ground…always have, always will…and i must assume those who come to me are going for the same thing….of course, not everyone can get exactly what they may want…..but in the sincere effort to go for it, they create a world for themselves on a much more elevated plane than want they ever dreamed… so for photographers who simply want to earn a living, there are much better mentors than i….to put networking, as i understand the term, anywhere near the top of what photographers need to be thinking about is definitely an error IMO for those who want to make a serious mark…
Gordon i always appreciate your vision of the world and your absolutely wonderful attitude towards your life and work….you love what you do…THAT is THE success….again, please assume i am the same….
cheers, david
Agreed, Gordon. Publishing is not charity, even among red-ink outfits like Aperture.
I think DAH is right. If you are starting a career in photography now, the only way you are going to separate yourself from the crowd (and there is a huge crowd with cameras) is with personal projects that are important to you. Why, in 2009, would you do it any differently? What fun is shooting just to make a buck? I was never interested in that (otherwise I wouldn’t have become a PJ ;). If the world doesn’t want to pay you for your personal stuff, then become a stock broker. And keep shooting your personal stuff. Life is too short to spend your time networking.
David,
All I need is to satisfy myself. I know what it is a good photography I know what it is a good art. If I will do anything what satisfy myself I will not use Burn or you as a network for sucess but I will share with you as a photographer with another photographer. If I will satisfy I will go sleep on the right curator floor.
Right now I need a little, small, tiny, almost dust piece of good luck, little smile of Fortune just like Mona Lisa’s smile. Piece of peas, point.
If I will have this little piece of luck (what I am waiting for right now) I will taking pictures for next year, I will paint dozen paintings and made some new sculptures. It’s mean I will discover and dewelop myself my photography and art.
But my wife is laughing at me right now, because she only know that good luck is the last one thing on my way.
But if I meet young person who ask me about networks I will say like always “network is a huge part of any job… just like talent… and piece of good luck”
run to bed. Peace for all.
Ps. shooting, shooting maybe I will have something to show soon. Or maybe not :)
MARCIN…
you have your philosophy, so stick by it….i agree with everything , and believe everything the same as you, except for the networking…but again, we live in different cultures, have had different experiences and have solid reasons, both of us, for believing the way we do….
i am sure you will have something to show soon….no rush…enjoy everything…maybe take a picture, maybe not…whatever you do should be organic, which is, i think, exactly what you said…
cheers, david
Jim;
Thank you for one of the best statements you’ve posted. Wonderfully put!
Re; networking.
Surely though there is a difference between showing work to those you wish to gain work from and schmoozing/kissing butts etc?
For example visiting an editor to show them some project work etc in the hope of getting published? I think the problem with the entire schmoozing scenario is that you might become the “darling” for a while until replaced by someone who can kiss butts more efficiently!!! :-)
The sort of “networking” I can do without is when you meet a photographer who only wants to brag about their gear. I met one guy a while ago (for the first time) at an event who introduced himself and immediately proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes showing me all the features of his new D3 and zoom lens!!! He got soooo excited I very nearly had to offer him a tissue (or two!) :-)
David
I have never doubted at all that you absolutely love your life. Any why wouldn’t you, you have had the kind of career that is the envy of all of us. As I’ve said before, I love what you are doing here.
I also understand that your personal mission in mentoring young photographers is to inspire them to aim for the high ground. I must apologise if there was any negative tone to my post.
I guess partly I was reacting to the notion that somehow networking/marketing/selling ones self, is somehow not OK. We network all the time, wether that is what we call it or not.
We do come at this business from very different perspectives.
As a stonemason/landscaper one produces often alone and with little or no interaction with an audience, this I take into the art/photo stuff I produce and I still don’t need an audience to produce. Then again I love the wonderful world of the www place one’s work out there and it gets to travel………then again I do have the luxury of a variety of interests and means of earning a living.
HMMNn today, now where is that magpie out fit……..
saying natgeo and magnum …
(something to work towards and be inspired about)
but fame does not fill an empty belly
might get you a free beer
but will not get you breakfast a day later
integrity and pride in one’s work are what we all should strive for no matter what we all do
DAH:
Koudelka was at the loft?! I would have given anything to have met him. He holds this sort of mythic status in my consciousness. My e-mail is: davinellicson@mac.com
Best,
Davin
AKAKY: So what do you think?
AKAKY IRL: About what?
AKAKY: Networking.
AKAKY IRL: It’s okay, if you like that sort of thing.
AKAKY: Do you think we could network?
AKAKY IRL: No.
AKAKY: Why not?
AKAKY IRL: Networking requires some small degree of social skill, which is something you don’t have in abundance.
AKAKY: That sounds so…I don’t know, anti-social.
AKAKY IRL: Not at all. I never said you were anti-social. You’re just unsocial.
AKAKY: Damn. What about you?
AKAKY IRL: What about me?
AKAKY: Are you unsocial too?
AKAKY IRL: No.
AKAKY: How is that possible, or should I even bother to ask?
AKAKY IRL: I talk to you, don’t I?
AKAKY: I don’t think that counts.
AKAKY IRL: It’ll have to do, guy. Otherwise, networking is what tv stations do. Speaking of which, why are we still in this egregious dump and not going home to watch some tv?
AKAKY: An excellent question and one for which I do not have an excellent answer. I’m looking at the Burn website. How’s that for an answer?
AKAKY IRL: Pretty damn pitiful, if you ask me. Go home, get something to eat, watch the Yankees. Are they playing tonight?
AKAKY: I think so.
AKAKY IRL: All right, let’s blow this popsicle stand and go home.
AKAKY: Sounds good to me.
AKAKY IRL: I knew it would, bubba, I knew it would.
Akaky is there a team in need of a magpie mascot
……. No wakkas I found a job the last guy left abruptly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASMK4l7o5hw&feature=player_embedded
Networking is anything you do to introduce yourself or your work to others and it took you some place in the medium or the profession for having done that. Wether you wished it or not. Period.
I think David takes one definition of the word, that of someone who thinks cultivating relationships in the business/medium will get them a job or ahead, wether their talent deserves it or not. I would tend to think that actually does work for quite a few, though I can’t tell for the photographic profession. I’d be surprised it’s different from the rest of human activities, but if so, just wonderful…
Not sure why it can only mean that, ie. something “not right”?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SIbV6NQxpFI/AAAAAAAAABQ/xLgPM92mltk/s1600-h/003.jpg
Thanks, db. That’s me in the left foreground ;=)))
Patricia
ALL –
I’m moving all the Lucie Awards comments over to a new post….
thank you so much for all your support…. I am really deeply humbled by all this… We are all BURN…
anton
ANTON THE ADMIN>>>
good morning.. well done.. have a morning shot of brandy and enjoy the moment mate..
you’re DOING IT..
now.. get back to japan.
or finland..
or norway..
d
Hihhihi…
ANTON, yes,We are all BURNED …like my cake …!!!
and Where is the music ???I need an inspiration …na,na,na,na,na, tra,tra…oups, the bar has been raised TOO high…
I have to try harder !!!
P.S DB, did you see ANTON’S move…he can just move us around…or is it MIKEC behind this…
hmmm….anyways…ANTON…I felt dizzy with your moves…(be perceived as a joke …)
Yeeee haaaawwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!
wooooop de wooooop,
loooop de looooop
in the place to beeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Burnians this is a code red, repeat CODE RED
Civi… ya getting this???
i said ‘CODE RED’
and i ain’t talkin ’bout no commies neither…
i’m breaking every darn rule in the goddam book to send y’all this
i’m on a mission ya see
NASA might even pull me back for breakin the silence, but to heck with em!
ya hear me boys…
to heck with y’awl
sometimes, ya gotta do what ya gotta do
get on ya steed
play some Peeee funk
wave ya nikons in the air
wave em like ya just don’t care
Captain DAH – Sir… (i’m holdin ma hat on ma heart now – i’m tellin y’awl
that cause not even your eagle eye can see me out here) behind every great posse
there’s a great Sherif and you sir are one heck of a dude sir
yes Civi, i said ONE HECK OF A DUDE…
Now, i’m gonna let y’awl into a little secret…
i’ve got with me up here a foil rapped (yes foil – those boys at NASA love the foil…)
tuxedo jacket (extra extra large size so it can fit over ma space suit) and i’ve got it here
because it can get kinda lonely out here, at the perimeter…
and sometimes i feel the need to celebrate like it was 1999…
just for the darn heck of it…
but tonight (it’s always night here, even when the suns shining brighter then a Texan noon…
kinda confusing that, but ya get used to it, in a wierd sorta way…
anyhow, tonight…
I gotta a real reason to tap it, un-rap it and put it on!
just for y’awl…
heck i’m even gonna try drinking a miniature Moet i’ve got stashed away,
through a straw! (don’t try that at home folks) ya see we study deep science
out here,and i can tell y’awl that;
1 idy biddy bottle like that
+
1 good ol NASA straw
x
zero gravity
well ya can imagine…
straight to the membrane…
can ya imagine that Civi? can ya????
CHAMPAGNE ON ME Y’AWL
and thats a global round
(just keep them there receipts and send em in to Houston – tell em
Space Cowboy sent y’awl) Heck! they owe me for long service leave
it’s the least they can do…
and don’t believe em if they say they ain’t got no cash,
heck them boys have got money to BURN……..
now ain’t that the truth – ruth.
Civi…. Champagne breakfast – with beans on the side…
What Not to Love Peace & Photography
Yeeee haaaawwww !!!! for Burn
Yeeee haaaawwww !!!! !!!! !!!! !!!!
ç√∫µ∫©∂∆∆∆√√∆©ƒƒ˚¬æ………˚∆˙˙˙©©ƒƒ∂∂ßß∆˙¨©¥ƒ∂´ß˙∆ (thats secret code y’awl ; )
Congratulations to burn with the lucie award!
David
“just stuck on burn slideshows and drank coffee…”
Well, I miss those times early in the morning when I wasn’t really awake enough to do anything else than drink coffee and look at slideshows. And afterwards: “So what do you guys think about this?” … *silence*
Got a new mac book pro yesterday. Now I have wireless internet, photoshop and spotify installed; so pretty much everything I need, except that I need to get this screen calibrated.
Time for breakfast.
bjarte..
yes – i miss that collage more than most.. the most fun teaching i’ve done.. small class size and at least a few people genuinely interested..
burn is a superb teaching aid really – mainly because a lot of the contributions aren’t from professionals – they are from people like 2AR.. and the crits here are tough.. i was ‘soft’ and there were still tears from some, no?
all you need is a laptop, a camera and the will to do something and it will all work out..
forget the ‘brand’ snobs.. the glass clinking self congratulatory crowd.. do it to please yourself, not agencies or galleries or editors or fans.. get sucked into something and do it for the pleasure..
you’re on a road without end and all you have to do is show people the various things that have passed you as you go.. no complicated goals or lofty ideas, just quiet hopes and daily time well-spent.
the most difficult thing to conquer is the confidence game and those first commissions..
it’s a lot easier to keep the ball rolling once it is already rolling.
main thing for you right now is to do any work you are offered.. do your own thing along side.. and let your practice grow organically at the pace it will grow.
scary biscuits to start-up, unseen rewards soon follow :o)
do something great.
build a galleon out of match-sticks.
calibrate, my man, calibrate.
d
“BURN is Evolution and Revolution.”
MR.HARVEY
SPACECOWBOY ,
YOU are such a visual…I can only imagine …and today …I am so happy
BURNIANS don’t drink …and as REIMAR said…don’t drink and drive…
BUT
today I LOVE you and even my boy , my SPACECOWBOY broke the NASA rules
therefore …
I will brake all the rules…I will dance as a native civilian
I will eat as much as I want…I will hug you all …I will fart as much as I want…
(blame the beans and the champagne from Space…)…I will blow kisses to the sponsors
and to the donors and to the Icons and to the audience and to the
UNIVERSE …
SPACECOWBOY…I LOVE YOU..I wish I can write like KATIE
just to express my gratitude …
P.S IT’S ALL ABOUT YOU MY PHOTOGRAPHERS …it’s all about you
What Not to Love Peace & Photography
γΔΩΧΨ…ΜΠΡΑΒΟ ΜΠΕΡΝ …( another secret code…opa )
Thank you Universe …for all your good energy
Not even the sky is the limit !!!
MR.VINK,
No worries, come over in Greece …
I can make a key ASAP …I have beans ,feta cheese, olives and mousto on the table…
just bring a photo for our magnetic wall…
BURNIANS ,
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
ViVA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT’S too late too be PESSIMISTS !!!
Wake up BURNIANS !!!
KATIE,HAIK, BOBBYB,ERICA,PANOS, JONI.K..TOM HYDE,ABELE,JASON.H where are you …ANNIE , JONI.K, LEE.G, DAVID McGOWAN, JENNY LYM, J.CHANCE…CHRIS BICKFORD…ANA.Y
HILLIARY.A, ROSEMARY, KATIA.R,DOUG MAG, CHARLES PETERSON,CHRIS.H,MATT, ASHER,LISA, LANCE…
and…and…and…
BURN is BURNING … are you ready to FOCUS ??? cause …I am not …not yet…
today we celebrate …with all the Universe …I don’t know what we celebrate BUT
whatever it is …I LOVE IT !!!
I am not an award Civilian …BUT…
if I can …I would dedicate this award to all the amazing people who are somewhere Up…
Here and There …chasing Tumbleweeds …looking down to all of us …laughing hysterically
You know…we LOVE you ALL…
Antio
BURNIANS,
I need more BURNIANS…please proceed to the LUCIE Awards area…
cause all we need is LOVE …everybody
cause all we need is BURN…anybody
cause BURN is the place to BE …
# Tracey Tomtene on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# James Chance on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# Harry on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# cristina faramo on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# panos skoulidas on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# Jason_Houge on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# Jason_Houge on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# Kerry Payne on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# Jason_Houge on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# John Delaney on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# humanfiles on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# Brian Frank on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
# Jerome C. on BURN magazine receives Lucie Award
…and on and on and on and on and on..
now.. where is that post from the past where someone mentioned a magazine?
:o)
What are you eating DAVIDB ???
# TOR CAPA on BURN magazine receives LUCIE Award
# DIMAS on BURN magazine receives LUCIE Award
# FELIX on BURN magazine receives LUCIE Award
# BRIGITTE on BURN magazine receives LUCIE Award
# DARK KIDS on BURN magazine receives LUCIE Award
and on and on and on …
:))) … O)))
KATIE , STREET FIGHTER, SWORD TONGUE ,
My GRACIE, BURN MUSE
DAVIDB the Norwegian Englishman…
Our PATRICIA…
ANTON…my man…
KERRY…the BURN silent Power
MIKEC…the BURNtech investigator
PANOS…the BURNing Fire
REIMAR…the Optimist
HAIK…the GURU computer with the BIG HEART !!!
and so on…I have another list …
is that right MR.HAIK ???
MR.HARVEY ALAN DAVID …what a vision…20/20 …YOU DAMAN
Spacecowboy… OVER
P.S I am eating BURNING cheese…saganaki !!!
A CIVILIAN MASS AUDIENCE…our communal heart BURNING with love!!!
chicken and roasted potatoes :o)
AndreaC
On the subject of photography in India – I just saw a big show of the work of Fazal Sheikh – you probably know him but if not he’s the 2009 Lucie Award Humanitarian honoree and his work is portraits of refugees. He’s worked with folks displaced from all kinds of violent places, but what I found most interesting was the Indian work covering the position of women in poorer rural communities – a long story but many kinds of harsh treatment adding up to a situation of subjugation for many women. He’s done two books on India I think – “Ladli” and “Moksha”. It’s interesting because he gets right into the issue of India rapidly joining the developed world but still having to fight with traditions which are frankly uncivilized.
This may only be tangential to what you’re looking for but there’s certainly a lot of meat on the bones here…
David Lynch interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIOe3uEj9rY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYXaA8y2jv4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzer5ybbHBk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ64UQ2M4Bk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uToTqO0haiA&feature=related
I like what he says about “…when you work on it you don’t leave it until it feels right, then you move on.” As if there is no way back. You just move on and work with everything properly – based on the knowledge you have at that point.
Mark, Thanks for pointing out this photographer to me. The books are beautiful of course, as is the photography. I am familiar with the issues from the writings of William Dalrymple (The Age of kali) and Elisabeth Bumiller (May you be the mother of a hundred sons). India is a complicated place. So different from us, hence its fascination. Sheikh’s work is not really rural India though, its just India. But that’s all right. Very good in fact. I would be glad to know that no one has already done what I want to do.
I’ve been sitting on this post for too long. Time to flick the send button.
bjarte..
there is no way back.. better regret what you have done than what you have not :o)
\(orbital – satan )
…the quiet end of town, sure is time out since the award……….. http://www.etrouko.com.au/imiimages.htm
she’s reflecting, not passed out…
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJF5KRzXLVI/AAAAAAAAATk/mUqwbOURAqI/s1600-h/99.jpg
imants – what software do you use for your slideshow / films? – the visuals that is –
can’t get the level of control i need for blending with what i am using..
David most of my stuff is done in soundslides, though if I want more control I use Premiere, after effects is still in the learning phase for me……..
The navigation on Burn has gotten too confusing. Multiple comments on multiple threads interleaved with each other in the recent comments area.
Jim: yes a bit. . . you have to check all the threads :)
Jim, yes, time to hit the reset button.
I’ll just sit here is this little room on Burn. Looks like plenty of Shiner Bock in the fridge, a nice plate of those little finger sandwiches, and a big screen TV with some kind of weird slide show running about tattooed transvestites on Venice Beach. What not to love!
Jim, you are way cool.
For Wendy
windy wendy
poet princess
sugar sprinkles
lightly salted
deftly turned
adroitly quipped
e-wired for sound
soft n’ nice to the ear
but always so sincere
can diss you
or kiss you
but nice as she can be
a Burn treasure
always a pleasure
thank you for you grrl
kathleen
Jim
I think of you now most nights as i reach for the light switch which dangles on a cord next to leica with a voight 35 on her and a half eaten roll of film inside..and i think thank you Jim..has it been too long, have I stretched your generosity? and then I turn out the light and the next day leica says maybe today there is one more photo and the voight 35 says let’s go and i say okay but tomorrow I will ask Jim if he wants you home little lens…
KAT
you brought tears…
thank you…
right back at
YOU!!!!!!
XOXOXOXOXOXOOX
wouldn’t normally do this, but what the hell? any BuRNIANS in MIAMI? http://www.miamishortfilmfestival.com/pdf/connectingthedocsspecialevent.pdf
**
The movie:
“CUBA WITH LOVE”
(directed by our Wendy)
bravo Wendy…
Congratulations..
Burnians in Miami plz don’t miss it..
Big Hug
WENDY!!!!!!!!!
This IS news!!!!!!!
Who knew? i mean, i never knew what it was you did…well, i am speechless! When/how could any of us see your film?
Congratulations, i am jumping for joy..what a week for Burn!!
So, great…good luck!
biggest hugest hugz
kathleen
…and Wendy thank u for letting us watch
the “Cuba” movie up in the famous “Cadillac Hotel”
in Venice Beach…
oh there you go, Panos, bragging that YOU got to see Wendy’s movie while the rest of us have to suck it up and wait till it’s released in our local theaters ;)))..well, tell you what, heh, maybe YOU got to see her film but i got Wendy’s XOXOXOXOXO’s, so there!
heh!
thanks imants.. premiere.. only used it once or twice, will hit the text books.
soundslide and slideshow pro are good for alot.. trying something else though.. may or may not work.
cheers again
d
PANOS
yes, before your arrest…. :)
Cuba with Love was a 10 year project,
and YES,
David ALan Harvey
was HUGE for me in my process…..
I always went back to what he once wrote to me,
‘Believe in your dream…’
because so many times I felt like giving up,
but knew it was never an option….
and then I discovered film,
with the help of Sam Abell…..
and my vision changed…..
and continues to change….
I love BURN because photography for me is the core of story telling with imagery….
my stills are in the film,
and I’m interested in the blending of the two mediums…..
and now I’m photographing abandoned brothels,
for my next project……
:))
xox
Wendy
Thanks for telling your story. You tell it with such humility, in your way..as always..you know, some of the best fruits come from trees that have to be very mature..five years or more to bear..Cuba must be a very, very delicious fruit indeed because it’s been such a long time coming..we’re so proud of you. Salud, chica!
k/
Kat:))))
sorry for my bragging about Wendy’s
movie..u got the xoxoxoxoxo’s..:)
Wendy already posted a tease about her
new project about the California abandonded brothels
on the conversesrouges.com
Wendy , yep…
I watched your very inspiring movie
couple hours before my arrest in Venice beach..
That was a lucky day for me..
If I had a chance I wouldn’t change a thing..
I would love to watch YOUR MOVIE again..
even if I had to get arrested once again..
Anyway, it’s not about me..
It’s all about Wendy’s movie today..
Big hug..
Wendy, Kat….xoxoxoxoxo
Panos
oh, i’ll trek back over to Conversesrouges again..been meaning to get back there anyway..
yes, this IS about Wendy..
where the hell is our Civilian Mass Audience..we need CMA to do like “Snatch”, down a shot of scotch, hop the Concorde, defunct though it might be, and get over to Miami on Nov. 14th to cheer on CUBA WITH LOVE.. we need all the Civilian Mass Audience we can get for the big night, so wake up, Civi! Time to celebrate Wendy’s big debut!
It’s late and i’m getting delirious, cross-eyed..demented..but i’m sure you understand, Panos..being a late nighter from way back, right? know what? gonna go check out your latest pics on your website while i finish scanning these final photos..
xoxoxo yersef!
Kat
That’s what I LOVE about BURNIANS…
YOU have PASSION !!!
You have VISION !!!
You are crazy with ambition…
BURNIANS in the Miami area… ATTENTION…ATTENTION !!!
Please proceed to the WENDY’S
http://www.miamishortfilmfestival.com/pdf/connectingthedocsspecialevent.pdf
CUBA WITH LOVE By THE WENDY
P.S PANOS & KATIE …you both write with great flamboyance …hihihi…I am trying to keep up with the new higher standards …who can not exult in BURN ???
hmmm… too much work …VIVA
CIVI!
Man, thank God! I’m on my last breath holding down the grill here at Burger King waiting for you to come and take over! heh..now i am gittin’ out..but don’t worry, there’s no Aussies tonight begging for their morning burgers, not even KH from Beijing and of course no Anton or DAH..just some scurvy Venice guy hanging out with his M8 but don’t worry, he can make his own fries..David Bowen grabbed a coffee and left quick and everybody else is bedded down as far as i can see..so i will leave you now in peace and quiet..kisses, Civi..I LOVE YOU!
ur katie
and for MR.JIM …
I am and I was always a fun …you are one of the big hearts ,hard working, strong headed…here in the BURNLAND…
ok,no worries,I will keep your key under the 99th azalea pot…I know, one day, you will be coming over.
KATIE…WAIT …
WE LOVE YOU…now you can go to sleep.
CIVI
hahahaha, i’m leaving laughing..a great way to depart, no? haha, the 99th azalea pot..LOL! have a great day in the land of El Greco
gonzo!
okkkkkkkkkkkkk..thankssssssssssssssss..love you tooooooooooooooooooooooooooo *sound of door slamming and giggles all the way down the stairs*
as Gracie used to say…zzzzzzzzzzzzz
aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that coffee is HOT…
more suger.. more..
Here we are again…
just YOU and THE MASS AUDIENCE…what a blend!!!
KATIE, the Street fighter has to let her flexible fingers move way from the keyboard
get her long black hair…hmmm…away from the scanner …and put her brain cells into the Zone …
What am I writing…??? Anyways, I BELIEVE in myself…therefore I want to ask you BURNIANS…
What the Haik,heck are you shooting ???
P.S I had two shots of red wine…only because I have to focus on my new project…
yeap,even Civilians are working hard …I LOVE YOU BURNIANS
trouble is – the winter up here is drawing in.. waking up with coffee n a smoke on the balcony under the stars.. by the time i had woken up properly the PLOUGH, festooned with satellites, had moved a full 5 inches to the right.. had no time to chat – just had to loaf with bowie in space.
now there’s an orange glow over the mountains and the city down below is shrouded in a whisp-like mist..
feet up on the pram, 2nd coffee in hand.. planning a day to be proud of.. dawn is finished man, it’s in the past.. over.. kaput.. no more..
ONWARD on the good foot.
i have 20 NOK and i’m not afraid to spend it.
yupsyups
d
slaming red wine?
respec’
no photography for me today, apart from the photographs i will probably take.
whats a CIVILIANS new project, eh? hmm?
DAVIDB,
the BURN street fighter wants to go to sleep…
How can she sleep , my mate …HOW ???
THE coffee is BURNing in the BURNland …
with my 20 NOK i could be a WINNER 20 times over !
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1st-silver-winners-trophy_W0QQitemZ120225254722QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Crafts_Embellishments_SM?hash=item1bfdfbcd42
no sleep till Hordaland..
must run..
have fun..
O
The Civilians new project…hmmmm….
you know me…I am not a photographer …hmmm…
therefore …I can say that my new project has to do with … soul searching
My brain ( leftover brain cells) are on FIRE !!!
P.S Invest wisely MR.DAVIDB … !!!
DAVIDB…you are focused…
O :)))
P.S and thanks for the O’s …
Beate and Tor Capa…HUGSSSSSSSS
AUDREY !!!
I see my familia is doing great…You BURN lady, you have a clear photo eye…
I LOVE my French family !!!
and don’t forget BURNINAS
Miami on Nov. 14th to cheer on CUBA WITH LOVE..
By WENDY
our WENDY
VIVA !!!
and one more thing…you know me…
I LOVE the one and only one iphone photo from ThE BURN LADY , MRS.KERRY !!!
BUT …what I LOVE the most of this photo is …the person who is up there …
He looks like a Cowboy from the Space …hmmmm…or like a Las Vegas BLUE MAN…
hmmm…with all my respect …hmmm…you know me…( blame the early morning shots)
P.S DON’T DRINK AND DRIVE …REIMAR …thank you !!!
AKAKYYYYYYYY …694 …you a 100 post …hmmm…I do worry about you :)))
wait till I hit 699…
oupss…the bar has been raised …!!!
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!! I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Erica, use the lens as long as you need it. Glad it’s gathering good light for you. My main squeeze film camera these days is usually not one of the M’s but my little IIIc/K to F conversion with the tiny 35 3.5 Summaron. Lives in my jacket pocket while the 5DII hangs on my shoulder. Glad the VC is getting some real use.
Civi, you need to know that you have totally gotten into my head with your wonderful, upbeat posts! When I saw this photo in the finder Saturday at our little Harvest Festival, the first thing that went through my mind was, “What not to love!”
http://www.39thframe.com/pumpkinart.jpg
MR.JIM POWERS,
the first thing that goes through my mind is…
You are a true BURNIAN !!!
THANK YOU
P.S It looks that we will drink that cold beer outside your porch this summer…
after all :)))
Skype me when MR.HARVEY will be there …hihihi….oime…We BURN !!!
BRAVA DEAR WENDY!!!!! We are SO PROUD of our Burnian film director! WHAT NOT TO LOVE????
http://www.miamishortfilmfestival.com/pdf/connectingthedocsspecialevent.pdf
Patricia
AUDREY
I very much liked photo #2 — I just couldn’t tell who was in it and what was going on. Glad you explained…
Patricia
ERICA
Jim is not concerned about the lens (are you Jim?)
We all just cant wait to see what you have.
Mate, I dont post much, but i’m just down here at the end of the world wacthing, waiting……
I’m with you, Matthew. I’m just waiting to see what Erica has been pointing that camera at! ;)
JIM, MATTHEW..
Jim..thank you for your kindness. Y’all are making me nervous. Lots of chatter about the work, my own doing I know because i wanted to share the ride with burn, but I hope there isn’t let down when it finally appears. Jim you have to prepare yourself, there’s a lot of grainy and some blurry…Matthew looks from you work like you are more on top of the world (forests tops!) than at the end of it. But what I really want to know is if you got to ride a Himalayan pony.
In breaking news… I made an edit of the dark light of this nothing with 3 minutes of audio for burn.
Done as of 10 pm last night. Well, done unless DAH wants changes before showing it here. I am still shooting for the book edit I think, we’ll see how that goes, but relatively done, or done for now.
Funny thing is that within minutes of finishing up, a new piece came floating at me, and I couldn’t sleep. nearly called DAH to ‘pitch’ my idea for an assignment through burn!
emcd…Can I call you Erica? ;) I’m going to be in NYC from about the 3rd of Nov to 7th. Will you be around? Would be great to catch up! Drop me an email if you have time.
Burnians…I’m going to be in Ohio (Kent State) from 25th to 27th Oct, DC from the 28th Oct to 2nd Nov and NYC from 3rd to 7th Nov. If you are in any of these areas and want to meet up, please let me know! I won’t have an American cell until after I arrive but you can email me on sean@gallagher-photo.com in the meantime. Would be great to meet up, as I’m not in the States that often.
Sean..
yep, I should be in NYC, am leaving for California but should be back by the time you arrive, would love to see you. Erica :) (did you see on LS someone was looking for b roll audio of a market in China at night?)
…Sean..:)
what’s up mate???
Speaking of travels..
I will be at Los Angeles airport around noon..
Flying to Paris France..
If any French burnian wanna meet for a coffee
I will be in CDG airport in Paris
Friday noon local time…
:)))
Panos…You are leaving the States when I am coming?! Should I take this personally?!
Erica…Great! I’ll send you an email after I arrive in the US and then perhaps we can arrange from there. Looking forward to seeing you again too!
Panos is going to Paris
All men and fathers! HIDE yours wifes, daughters, and sisters!
:)
Good for you Panos, Paris is beatiful.
Panos,
good to hear you are coming back home!
Keep posting whenever possible.
Have a safe trip!
Reimar
Sean, :)))
Reimar.. It was about time.. Been 15 years..
Marcin..
Laughing.. Laughing..,
I hope that we meet soon..:)
I am in Paris on the 29th, Panos. Of course, you will be gone by then, but in case you ‘re not, we can meet on the 30th (29th is spent with Mom, of course!). Do you still have the same cell nunber roaming around the world?
Herve yes…
I’ll try to keep the same number
coz my return ticket to the States
is January 17th..
Let’s see what happens…
Panos, I ‘ll be in Paris from 18 november to 21 november, hope to see you too :)
Audrey…:)))
how about dinner at Herve’s mom:)
Panos, I’ll not see Hervé, when I arrive, he leaves :(
Sounds great..
We can do without him..:))))
( just kiddin Herve… Just kiddin..:)
Yes, we can! :)
may the travel spirits be with You …all of you BURNIANS !!!
PANOS, the Venice,tell it as it is , all out there , supporter of the weak and fighter of the
unknown demons …We wish you safe travels !!!
Your key for the Greek house is ready…next to the chrysanthemums,check left where are the pansies
…the third pot with the organic green…you will see…:)))
If I am not there …just go in… red wine on the table and fresh tomatoes with goat cheese for salata
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Civilian’s house is officially OPEN … WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
MR.HARVEY …wherever you are …
we are sending good energy to you and to your family ( Socrates!!!)
and to ANTON too and to KERRY …Someone stop meeeee
I LOVE YOU BURNIANS !!!
Civi..
Just replace the goat cheese with Feta Dodonis
and I’m there..
Otherwise I’m getting a roach motel..
Which I’m used to.. No Luxurious accomodations
for me coz if my hommies from Venice Beach find out
I’m in a paradise in Greece ….
Then they won’t let me sleep on the boardwalk when I return..
:))))))
btw.. Good news from Venice..
My beloved homeless Scottie aka the KING OF ALL VETERANS
is gonna have a home for the winter ..
In Brentwood ..
Viva OBAMA..:))
viva Venice…:))
PANOS,
your wish is granted …!!!
ViVA !!!
CIVILIAN and PANOS
Love your posts today..soo upbeat! Panos, have a great trip to Paris you lucky dog..give Audrey a kiss on the cheek hello for me..so glad to hear Scottie will be out of harm´s way and also the winter´s cruel bite for a few months. Makes me feel warm and cozy just reading that news. Civi, babe..i am watching your posts regarding your personal project, the introspective one. You, i believe are an extremely deep one so look before you leap, don´t go diving too soon after lunch and best of luck snorkeling around in those beautiful green waters of the soul..i hope you find a lot of pearls to bring back up and share with us. Am thinking of you.
JIM
Man, what kind of happy pill are you taking these days? I have never seen you so cheery, delightful, docile and domesticated (not all in that order)..whatever it is, it´s really nice to see your own upbeat posts, nevermind Civi´s who i have been tracking, reading, nurturing and charmed by for a year now. Do, do keep spreading the love–and the Voigtlander lenses, providing you have enough to go around. haha, just kidding i have more than my fair share of Voigt´s. It´s really nice you loaned your 35 to Erica. Her post expressing her gratitude was so touching to read. You´re a good man, Mr. Powers. A real yellow rose :)
HERVE
You on the other hand have seemed a trifle morose lately. Can´t help but notice. You ok? I miss your posts. Hope you´ll be back in full swing soon. Take good care of yourself and have a great time back home as well.
BEST ALL
Kathleen
KATHLEEN,
The picture of a docile domesticated Jim made me smile…. Do not push the Texans or the cow-boy roots will surface…..
ERICA,
So, if you have sent the material to David, it means that we might just be days away from seeing the essay….. do not stress, anyone who was lucky enough to see what you have been up to knows the essay will be great!!!!
SEAN,
I cannot believe that you are going to Ohio after I lived there for 4 years and just left….. Hope you are doing well mate and that we can catch up sometimes….
AUDREY/PANOS,
I was about to offer to join you guys in Paris but now I do not want to ruin the “tete-a-tete”…..
Well, tomorrow is a day off….about time I try to shoot something…. Hopefully will get a few pictures….I am feeling a bit rusty from photographic standpoint lately :):):)….
Cheers,
Eric
TO ALL,
I was thinking about the recent Lucie award that was given to BURN and to the fact that it was the first time this award was given to an on-line magazine, I was also thinking about the fact that the audience on BURN is growing exponentially and I came across this video at work on Social Media put together by Socialnomics, one of the world’s most prominent thought-leaders in the Digital/Social media space.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVXKI506w-E
Video is reinforcing how important it is for companies to be on the cutting edge of this shift to Digital, rethinking our traditional methods of advertising and reevaluating our approach of reaching consumers. Not specific to photography I am afraid but linked in a way given the decline of magazines, the emergence of BURN……Clearly, BURN in a way is a pioneer with this audience driven photography magazine with plenty of content…. DAH and Mr Antonm where do we go next????
Eric
Eric,
The medium is finding it’s way. Remember, the audience now is mostly visual types. BURN must expand past “us” if it going to be what I think is the intent. Without a mass, or at least large niche-audience, it cannot move past it’s present form.
The wonder of this is that we can all contribute to what may be the future of documentary/art/and whatever photography. Convergence.
Rock on.
Hey folks..
Guess what is the number to my Paris flight..
Flight 69 from LAX to Paris..
Yes..no:69
now the bad news.. They just charged me
$450 motherfucking bucks to carry my studio lights..
( and underwear.. )
thank god for HAIK .. he lend me $20
for booze..
Unfuckingreal..:((((
ERICA,
Sorry to say I havn’t ridden one of the pony’s.
Just chased them around on the polo grounds and been run into by them once or twice.
It seems everytime I go near the himalaya I end up at the polo. the games are like a cross between roller derby and the kentucky derby ! Just fantastic..
Sean! I didn’t see Denver on your list… You are coming to visit us right!!?…
Panos; “$450 motherfucking bucks to carry my studio lights.. (and underwear.. )”
Just go commando… If it’s good enough for Paris Hilton it’s good enough for the real Paris!!! :-) Seriously though; good luck on your travels!
I’ve finally got round to scanning a few Holga negs. I’ve shot about 6 test rolls getting used to what it does and doesn’t do. Actually I’ve been surprised at how sharp some areas of the lens are! :-)
Anyway here’s a link. I’m afraid I’ve been guilty of the cliché “shoot something old and ramshackled” but at least I know what it’s capable of now. Ready for some serious work with it.
http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/22949
Cheers
PANOS–
Could’ve left the lights with me, man. I woulda held them for ya. ;)
Safe trip. You laying over in NY by any chance. I’ll be flying in tomorrow…
HAIK–
Can you loan me $20 for booze?
pomara, the problem for Burn going forward is that despite winning an award for what it is, it has to totally transform itself into something else, or it will be irrelevant in another year. The challenge is that what that “something else” might be is unknowable at this moment. Interested folks will look at that Lucie award, look at this site, and in a year there will be a thousand, maybe 10,000 “burns.” The ace in the hole for this site is DAH.
I could have started this site, or you, or anyone here, done it exactly the same way David has, put the same content on it David has, and it wouldn’t have gotten anyone’s attention for very long, much less won a Lucie. David is the key. Who he is and who knows him. But even with that star power at the helm, Burn will have to continually recreate itself to be here a year from now.
And I have mixed emotions about the success of Burn. I think we need DAH the photographer much more than we need DAH the publisher. And eventually the responsibilities of the publisher will overwhelm the photographer. No one other than David can drive this magazine forward. Burn and DAH are one. He can never step back from it, and it continue to succeed.
David, of course, will totally disagree with everything I’ve just typed. ;)
Jared.. Pretty quick..
Need to turn phone off but I
already gave Haik a second set of lights
( even heavier )…
Plus clothes, a pair of converses etc..
Without Haik’s help I wouldn’t even be able to board..
Half of my shit is ni his storage now..
Haik is Real.. Real 100% true friend..
I’m blessed..
I know that, man. Be good? out there.
PANOS
Safe travels, bro. Be sure to stay in touch.
xxooo
Patricia
JIM POWERS ,
is an old soul …listen BURNIANS…we HAVE to reinvent …
and of course MR.HARVEY=BURN …
BUT
since I am just a Civilian and I can’t BURN anymore my brain…
I LOVE YOU ALLL
TO HAIK ,
hmmmmm… what a real friend …!!! PANOS who is on flight 69 send me this message
hmmm…anways, I just copy and paste …
“If ever there is tomorrow when we’re not together.. there is something you must always remember. you are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. but the most important thing is, even if we’re apart.. i’ll always be with you.”
Winnie the Pooh
P.S he told me to tell you …VIVA …something…I can’t figure out …hmmm
o)))
KATIE,
I am into Winnie Zone today…hihi
“One measure of friendship consists not in the number of things friends can discuss, but in the number of things they need no longer mention.”
Clifton Fadiman
Therefore, you already know…you are such a BURNING soul … I LOVE YOU…
P.S I am not a pearl person though. Can I bring some charcoal instead… from my project ?
I am waiting for my book …I can wait for years…I am a Civilian after all…:)))
EVOLUTION & REVOLUTION
is the BURN solution!!!
What not to LOVE !!!
All this talk about re-inventing Burn bothers me. I wonder what sort of things people are imagining. I am not in a hurry for Burn to change too much. I want it to stay advertising free, not-for-profit, free to view, fairly simple as it is (though with easier browsing capacity so I can go back and access the archive more easily). I don’t know all of DAH’s original intentions for the site, I wasn’t around when all the brainstorming was going on. I don’t know if he hoped for an audience beyond avid photographers. I know he hoped to get sponsorship to fund assignments. I don’t care about that. I just want to see new work and see what others have to say about it and I like it being a primarily a photography audience. It’s also in making a comment that I learn. And of course I hope that one day I may have something worthy of being published here. I feel so aided by some of David’s comments – such as his views on the value of personal work, and books, and finishing projects – and by the debates that we have had here about the rights and wrongs of photo manipulation. The discussions are as important to me as the essays. It’s great to have links to people’s sites through their names. (I still can’t figure out how to do that. In wordpress, I don’t know what I am supposed to do. Not that I’ve got a site but I thought I might put post a picture a day to one of my facebook albums from my India trip).
About the fear of change, Murdoch has been going on lately about the need for sites to generate income for content. He aims to do this by getting people to pay for individual news items rather than by subscription. Of course this makes great business sense and I think he will be successful in bringing about such change to on-line news outlets and it will have a knock-on effect on other sites. So many sites which started off free to build an audience, now require paid membership for anything above a minimum experience. Will Burn go down this route? How can Burn expect to win funding from sponsors if it doesn’t do anything for the sponsors. They always want something back don’t they? What will they want from Burn? What will this mean for Burn? I must say that the advertising on Facebook and one other regular site I visit doesn’t bother me. It’s not in your face. The sites are still attractive and the advertising doesn’t interfere with the functionality of the sites. When people here talk about the future of Burn, this is what I think may happen.
I don’t agree with you Jim about David. I think we need him now as a publisher and educator.
Andrea
There is ALWAYS need to change. You dont change, you fall behind. The most successful organizations are ones that change in ANTICIPATION of future conditions instead of ones who REACT to existing conditions. Not changing means falling behind. Its simple stuff, really. The fact is that Burn is not really making money, and if it isnt making money it is losing money. Stasis is nonexistant in business, you either win or fail, status quo is death. David himself said he is losing money. Thats a condtition that needs to be addressed pronto. Id rather see sponsors than have Burn fail. Whats your motivation?
JARED,
that was the last one. can i lend you a booze instead? :)
ALL,
Panos is airborn. Talk as much sh&t as you can. he wont have access to internet for at least another 24 hours.
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/22/havent-seen-this-guy-this-happy-for-a-long-time/
ok, i’ll go first.
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/22/panos-photoshop-troll/
oime ,oime,oime
is that Panos ???
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
ANDREA,
I really did not want to imply that Burn has to dramatically change. Far from it…..I love the fact that it is “free of advertising”, that it is photography focused, that we can have discussions about the essays and I very much agree with Jim that David is the glue hat holds all of this together… I was just conscious at a time when BURN is the first on-line magazine to get this award that in many ways, it might be replacing more traditional media for photographers…at a time where many want their work to be seen, to have an impact, this venue might become (if it isn’t already) a preferred route as opposed to a more confidential print magazine… I think that where David was also more visonnary than others is to have allowed for free interaction and comments/ dialogue despite rough times at some point… There is some social networking going on there hat is the other glue that holds this place together. There are plenty of photography sites out there that all seem dead to me…you can see work but there is no life, no exchange…Burn has created a community that is virtual but also real in many ways… This is just an example but Lassal and I spend a good hour talking together on skype yesterday and in a way, this also could only happen because of how this on-line magazine was setup…. finally, at a time where reaching a starfeted specific passionate community is becoming increasingly difficult for companies, I also think that BURN with is loyal group, its unbelievably rich content is in a unique position to attract corporate sponsors… I have no doubt that David has no desire to have silly publicity and corporate banners for “making” money for the sake of it… this site about quality, depth… He has said many times that corporate sponsors could however enable some photographers to be paid for some BURN assignments so hopefully, there is a smart way of doing this moving forward…and I have no doubt that our tech guru Anton and a few others will also be smart enough to build on Burn’s strengths, the quality of the layout, the interface, the interactivity, the ability to share and exchange…. I think the future is bright and positive…. Will require many to lend a hand and more possibly….
Eric
I meant “targeted” and not “starfeted”….always typing too fast….
“I think we need him (DAH) now as a publisher and educator.”
Here’s hoping he’ll do what’s best for him..
Eva
well said..
Civi
charcoal? hmmm..now you have me wondering..*taps a finger to her lip*..charcoal. Are you an artist, Civilian? Don’t answer that question. Don’t even play coy or evasive or elusive. The truth is unimportant. The suggestion is all that matters. Charcoal. A tantalizing detail. Alright. Dive deep into those emerald depths and emerge with a stick of charcoal between your teeth. And make something honest. Whatever else it might be, make it honest.
goodnight..no midnight oil burned over the scanner, nothing like that tonight..painted instead. Now departing–leaving Panos flying, Haik wiping his brow in relief, AndreaC, Eric, Rafal, Jim et al, discussing, and Civilian cheering it all on. Burnians all.
LOVE
ur katie
ERIC,
“will require to lend a hand …”
…like how many hands are we talking here…:)))???
EVA,
I checked your website …I LOVE the tourist (new) …VIVA …I see xtapodia and Greek stuff.
Are you coming back ???
KATIE,
How can you write like this ???
Who is your inspiration ???
I have to push you though…you are such a BURNing Force …you got to document your
charisma … WE BELIEVE IN YOU
and consider me your family …
as I said yesterday …
Civilian’s house is officially OPEN !!!
Katie; now it’s my turn to burn midnight oil over the scanner! Well it’s only 7.40pm but hey why let the facts get in the way of a good story…
and BURNIANS…
our PATRICIA is my inspiration …of course MR.HARVEY …
Never give up …
P.S What are we shooting ???
Civi; I’ve got a cold. Can you please give me the same prescription as you gave Erica? I don’t care if it doesn’t work, it just sounded WAY better than a doctor saying “take an aspirin and go home” :-)
” What are we shooting ???”
Nothing today :-( Scanning Holga test films.. http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/22949
But tomorrow, skateboarding kids and then metal kids. Sunday skate or surf kids ands a wild boar hunting competition weigh-in. Monday (long weekend here), not sure but something to do with kids…
ROSSY,
something went down with your energy level …therefore you got the cold…
BUT
as long as you have a BURNing spirit…everything will be fine.
1) you will need Aspirin or tamiflu if you have the swing ( western approach )
2) stay warm
3) if you have a wife, husband,friends …then try to have vigorous intercourse …
whatever feels right…
4) after have a bath …and get back to bed …( a new set of sheets is recommended)
5) eat something light …(snack)
6) try to laugh hysterically …
from my Civilian heart …I wish you …Thighs up !!!
oups..I meant …thumbs up
Civi; No worries it’s just a sniffle not a “man-flu” :-) I just wanted an excuse to try your remedy! :-)
EVA,
Agree… That is key!
ROSS,
We will need to compare….I will also try to shoot kids skate-boarding today….at least if it does not rain today which is maybe asking too much in Belgium…. Time to get ready. Have a good night all in the US….
Eric
ROSSY,
you …such a pisser …
hihihi…I got that from KATIE …
she is such a pisser too…
P.S VIVA AUSSIES…you are such a pissers !!!
and Goodmorning Belgium
and Goodnight AMERICA …North and SOuth…
where are my African BURNIANS…I need you
i think there are a few very simple additions which could make burn – the website – more user friendly:
a search button.. photographer catagories.. some kind of easy way of flicking through the archives by story or photographer name..
i love the idea of some funding streams which pay the gallery rent, pay photographer assignments and begin to pay back david and anton the huge amount of money it has cost them to pursue this site.. as well as to go into the pot for the epf.
ensuring burn has longevity will mean spreading the burden and knowledge base needed to keep the site ticking over..
i’d also like to see another M snapper getting stuck in as, after all, this site is the educational branch of the agency.. perhaps when the magnum ‘channels’ are set up someone will commit more.. or perhaps there could be ‘guest editors’ making selections?
d
V ery
I nspiring
V ery
A ltruistic
D
A
V
I
D
B.
~
B
R
A
V
O
V
I
V
A
good morning civilian.
how did starting your new project go?
smooth as ale, sharp as razor?
Eric, Of Course that I would like to see you!!! November is Month of the Photograph in Paris…
Lassal, Anton, David B, Civil, Burnians, Meeting in Paris ?
and KATHLEEN on her way to bed..
last night was good, round here in europeland..
hope alls well in americanaland, back round that way..
yarps.
d
audrey..
would love to – simply not able to afford..
trying to update camera..
i still have no bank account..
still recovering from ‘the job that went wrong’
have fun though.. see you at your exhibition in perp nest year :o) :o)
David B “still recovering from ‘the job that went wrong” I know what you mean, I’m still getting over a similar hassle from late last year… Mind you it was a biggie… It’s like throwing a rock into a lake, the ripples keep going well after the splash! :-)
Civilian
My inspiration?
here you mean? my inspiration for what i write here? Well, easy. It is your unconditional love. Way back when. You remember. I know you do. You and Gracie were the thread i grabbed onto and held fast. i am very loyal. Look into my mirror. See your own light. That is photography to me. Mirrors held up so others can see the light.
Ross:
I don’t know about you, but i love scanning. And am most ashamed to say so because i’d rather do that than just about anything else having to do with photography. Shooting and scanning. Admittedly a very unproductive mindset. I read what you said about your Holga shots. So happy you’re enjoying yourself with that camera.
ALL
Recommended Reading:
http://morris.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-case-of-the-inappropriate-alarm-clock/
“if you have a wife, husband,friends …then try to have vigorous intercourse …”
that is the BEST WAY to beat man-flu and a variety of other ailments.. certainly..
for ross..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaZ2SPZUiZc&feature=PlayList&p=FFA34DF91010FFD9&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=44
tor capa is running a temp of 39.5.. think it’s chicken pox caught from his cousin.. put him back to bed.. watching him close today..
he’s still laughing..
d
DAVIDB …hmmm…are you the Civilian ???
VIVA Norway …I would LOVE the search Button…you know me …that would make my
traveling through your essays…. a breeze….
Believe
Unite
Respect
Nature…
hmmm… I forgot my breakfast …
LOVE
David B
Not sure in Americaland but in Central Americaland, all is drugged out, violent and corrupt. *yawn*..
And since you’re broke, here’s a cuppa cuppa..enjoy it..it’s on the house. Steaming hot with lots of sugar. Just the way you like it.
yep, now, off to zzzzzzzzland
byeall
katie
viva greece..
i’m not worthy of being a civilian.. i’m.. just.. an.. ilian.
ross… it’s not that bad here.. just paying off credit card for three flights after missing one, when i could have been banking a tasty fee instead..
bum
d
Viva
Vegans
in
vegetative
assylums
David B; Lol. Yes I’ve seen the same scenario…
Katie; I’ve only just bought a scanner (arrived Wed) so am just having a play. Gotta pick up some 120 neg files to flatten the films and be a bit easier to handle for scanning. So far I’m really pleased with the negs, considering I’m only playing around at the moment, getting the hang of the holga etc..
I’m using some 6 year expired Portra 800 so didn’t want to shoot too much until I sussed out how the film and holga were performing!
AUDREY ,
meeting in France…??? LOVEly !!!
Come on BURNIANS…Focus…we need to produce some transporting fuel (money).
FOCUS…I need to focus too…the SUPPORT US AT BURN haven’t seen me lately…
BUT
since I believe in me and in ALL of you…with positive energy …we will make it happen
The Universe is with Us !!!
P.S let’s work with smile …VIVA
looovely tea..
earl gray? smashing.
come to europland and live in the future if central americaland is violent and corrupt..
hmm.. only 2 out of 3 seem all-bad :o)
night .
d
Ross
Portra is so nice..you’re lucky you can still get it developed. I have to cross process slide film because there’s no processing chemicals for slide film here in CR. What kind of scanner did you get? I would strongly suggest a glass neg carrier. There are some inexpensive ones on the internet. Unless you’re using a Nikon 9000 and then the carriers cost an arm and a leg. But they’re worth it!
well, i really REALLY have to scram..will look for your response tomorrow morning. If i stya up any later i will go down to the fridge and eat something VERY fattening! heh!
Good luck with your scanning!!!!!!!!!!
k/
right.. i’m away..
kathleens tea and civi’s laughs were a smashing breakfast..
today i will photograph something on the hour, every hour.
goodness
d
David B
two out of three, hahahahaha…FUNNY!
Yes, as i said all along, yer a pisser!
bye!
And here’s some music. “Kind and Generous” sorta sums up Burn I think…
Ross:
Correction:
I would strongly suggest a glass neg carrier for 120 film..obviously a glass carrier is not necessary for 35mm.
Katie; Yes I will probably get one, just have to save up some $’s first (the scanner emptied the account!). I’m trying to get as much work done as possible before the school holidays start in a couple of months. I want to spend as much time as possible shooting then rather than the mag work…
DAVIDB,
I am blowing good energy towards your home …
when you will get out at your patio…breath and think …how fortune you are !!!
Tor Capa is a BURNIAN…no problem :)))
KATIE,
yes, good question…what kind of scanner and printers do you have …
hmmm…I need some info here for your fellow BURNIANS !!!
HAIK,
You have a heart of gold …
BURNIANS …I am so proud of you !!!
P.S bad weather in Greece…but I have to stay positive …I LOVE YOU ALLLLLL
this is interesting..
or is it?
hmm
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor
civi – yesyes..
the sky is full.. colours of dawn fading..
it’s another great day..
with thanks..
best wishes
warm regards
yours
david
To ALL-
Some of you might have already seen this but I just found this morning this new site from word press photos that allows us to see all the work selected of the past 50 years… Kind of nice to be able to look at the archives from so many photographers who received this award.
http://www.archive.worldpressphoto.org/
Eric
2003 was a good year for guns on world press……….. shooting civilians
Hmm… 1992, 2nd prize, Arts and Entertainment category. That young fellow might make something of himself yet ;)
DAVID BOWEN…
your suggestion of better archiving has been on our minds for quite awhile…now you can search if you know what you are looking for , but we need pages of thumbnails and essay name that is easy to see…
for sure we will need editing help…even if submissions stopped coming in five minutes ago, we would have enough content to keep us going for months…right now i seriously need a good pre-screening editor..one of the major magazines has offered such a person, but let’s see how this goes in reality…someone who could do the first cut…just choosing the “maybes” takes several hours per day…i will always have to do the choosing for what finally goes up, but the pre-editing process, the researching, the follow through with each photographer, could be handled by perhaps one other person….Anton and i share these duties now…there have been many offers for help from many all along…however, once one realizes how much work is actually involved, to stick with us takes a major commitment….for those of you in people management situations you know it is true that adding people does not necessarily reduce your work load….adding people can actually increase your work load unless you really find exactly the right person…i know this even from having a small studio staff and an intern or two and from helping to manage our Magnum office staff…
how do you see the “guest editor” concept working on a day to day basis?? certainly it was “guests” who chose the EPF grantee…however, i do not see how it could work here in any logical practical daily way…again, logical practical daily way…..but, tell me what you see please…..of course, i can have interviews etc with outside editors (several coming up)..special columns etc…
for example, it might be interesting for you to go back and see exactly how Anton came to be at Burn…Anton was not there at the beginning of the idea…it is all in the archival manuscript….Anton was one of about 12 people in my apartment last year when we were coming up with a name etc…Anton had no special place at that point…what did he do different than everyone else?? simple…he stayed interested…he was willing do sit down and actually “do it” on monday morning when the party was over…he kept coming up with solutions rather than problems and stayed with it day after day…
for the big picture David, i do not see Burn trying to be all things to all people, a service to meet every need…we have to stay a boutique i think….and realistically i cannot put any more time into Burn than i now do since it involves not only putting out the magazine, but lots of offline mentoring as you well know……so improvements will have to be largely technical and with a few solid staff….
David, i want to thank you personally for being such a positive influence here on Burn…you have been with us since Road Trips, written some terrific pieces, have kept the drumbeat rolling, and say what you think in the most constructive way….now, if we can just finish your editing and get you up here as a deserving published photographer,then the circle will be complete….can do??
cheers, abrazos, david
ROSS
I just dropped in a minute ago and saw some of your HOLGA shots. Hey, they are great! How did you manage to get pictures of my car anyway?! I thought it was in a garage … hmmm.
Will get back to you, I am a little under water right now. Much too much on the table & not enough sleep.
ALL
I just talked to Haik a while ago and Erik and Anton yesterday. EVERYBODY who is linking his/her name to a website with contact information, will get an email from me in the next days – latest: November 8. So if you did not get an email by then, or if you are not linking your name, please contact me under “info(at)lassal(dot)de”.
Cheers & good light!
Rafal,
I don’t mean I don’t want sponsors. I am just worrying aloud.
Eva,
I am positive DAH will do what’s best for him. I was making the counterpoint to Jim because I wouldn’t like to see Burn’s fire fizzle out.
Eric,
You are right, this community is a big part of what makes Burn burn and better than all the rest. And I would like to see the people who put so much time into this site getting something for their efforts. I thought stargeted was an interesting word. Now there are all these links to check out…
ALL….
i think i have missed some comments, but please rest assured that Burn is not going to change in any way other than better tech, better archiving, and more in depth stories…….as i have written many times, the minute Burn is not fun for me or for you, then it will go by the way…any sort of sponsorship (and i am being very very careful about this) would only do two things…(1)allow me to pay photographers for content/pictures used here on Burn and (2) allow me to give out commissions/assignments exclusive to Burn….
cheers, david
Ross,
I just saw your holga work… nice, do you shoot assignments with your holga? I shoot with a Holga as well
http://www.valeryrizzo.com
See Brooklyn Portfolio
Best, Valery
thanks for the kind words david – it’s been a pleasure to contribute to burn as a working photographer / lecturer.. and that will be continuing..
as you know, when i moved on from somewhat isolated life of weekly on-the-road commissions, road trips served a great purpose for me in reconnecting with photographers.
with guest editors my thinking is more around people they know than people who have submitted to burn.. i’m guessing that every photographer has other photographers who they know, and want to show..
i have at least a couple who are working hard and could use the break.. i’d almost rather see them get a place on the frontpage than me .. almost.. :o)
that must be true to vink, parr and more.
say, if parr could suggest 3 or 4 such photographers he has stumbled upon, that could produce a month long ‘guest edit’.. or four essays.. a paragraph from parr alongside the suggested snapper.
i think it would be too much work to expect them to dig in the submissions, and while they ‘edit’ it could give more time to ease into the submissions with less pressure..
as an initial editor for submissions i would still be very willing to lend a couple of hours a day..
would love to start helping rather than talking about helping..
at some point or another during the day i find time to wander on the web.. write here.. hang about there.. and i’d rather spend that constructively helping if possible…
as long as it does not matter at what time i dip in, as that’s up to tor capa, i could get involved..
i remember well the discussions and how burn came into being – am still here and still hoping to help out.. i’ve a long winter of dark evenings ahead and once there is a work-flow for doing it things would fall into place.
will talk with anton when he can.. i also have an idea for easy way of selling the ‘selected photographs’ online which might work.. could mayby try with one of mine..
it was a long time ago that we bumped into each other through lightstalkers, and i have to say that the longer i have seen your efforts with teaching and with road-trips n burn, the more i have wanted to help out.. i’ve taken some inspiration from you for which i’m extremely grateful.
looking forward to helping..
thanks again for your kind words. being published on burn would be a real pleasure for me..
i’m trying to time everything now – with homemade book-making, proposals for exhibits and press about the work which would be good to have organized for when an essay goes on here.
i can submit a single photo anytime, with links to blog posts about your mentoring and perhaps a buy-it-now button for print sales.. will chat with anton.. i’ve done some good work this year which is leading into good work for next.. real direction again.
being published here will be perhaps the first complete turn of what i hope is an upward spiral, rather than a circle..
okay.. speak when we can.. today is a tough one .. poor top cat is unwell and i cannot take the illness away from him and into me.. :o)
david
burnmagazine is building lifelong friendships along the way.. real connections as well as help.. advice.. all sorts of positives going on here – we’re all taking while we put into it.
also – just to be clear – a guest editor bringing in their own selection of 4 snappers is intended as a suggestion to ease the pressure off trawling submissions for that given month…
many of us are wanting to see the workload of burn spread and allow you and anton to do the work you need to do.. photography.. we need to see your family project essay :o)
:o)
Davids Bowen and Harvey – The idea of guest editorship is a good one , spread the joy? whats not to love?
Perhaps an Idea would be to assign the editors a territory where they can harvest work from?
For example I can rattle off half a dozen Australian and Indonesian photographers who would be perfect to add to the mix of emerging and established pro’s featured on BURN , get a submission together for a final edit by the executives …so to speak!
I’d rather have Uncle Dave out shooting his arse off and seeing the results,Having my essay published on BURN and getting so much feed back , POS and NEG , has given me a real boost and ecouraged me in what at times has been a lonely road ,and in the spirit of Road Trips and paying forward it may be time and actually appropriate to share the load.
I volunteer!
David AH
“please rest assured that Burn is not going to change in any way other than better tech, better archiving, and more in depth stories…”
This sounds good to me. :-)
DAVID B…GLENN
ok, yes i get the idea…well sure…that sounds good….why not?? many thanks gentlemen….do not want to cut you short now, but i have two things to do (1) pay my taxes…the Lucie boost did not help one single bit with the realities of life…i already ran out of gas, lost my glasses, cut my head on a beam, can’t find my Mexico travel schedule, forgot a major obligation, and late on my taxes since the award (2) i have a house full of book making students…well, just six, but their pictures are spread out all over my house which now looks like a book making factory….fun, fun…
cheers, david
Civi, yes, ‘tourism’ is all courtsy of Greece, and yes, hope to go back there, cool place to hang out ;)
Focus…focus …BURNIANS
AND
even the BURNHEAD has to focus…
I am blowing good energy BUT you need to focus…
1) you need to make the priority list
2) follow the list
3) prioritize your needs
4) de clutter
5) have a glass of wine
LOVE …forever !!!
VIVA Eva !!!
DAH…
SOAP DISCO?? Did you have to use a camera blimp / underwater housing :) ?
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/david_griffin_on_how_photography_connects.html
RE: first round maybe editors, possibly it could work if you had regional submission people, as in: if you live in Asia, submit to this person, if you live in Canada, submit to this person..it seems to work for things like Unicef Pphoto of the Year. But of course burn submission volume is perpetual and like you say you need commitment. I’d be happy to discuss helping as a pre editor, if you move in that direction.
ERICA…
do i seem like a photographer who would own an underwater housing?? laughing…no my dear, just put my M6 at high risk for that photograph…
I know, just joking ’cause in the clip Griffin says “David said that there was lot of weird stuff happening on the dance floor.” hmmmn…
Civilian
I like this list. 1) and 5) is easy. 3) and 4) is where things take too long for me. I need to get better at pushing things forward faster.
David B
What job went wrong?
ibiza – got the photos anyway.. it was just wrong :o)
working internationally means more logistics, and more room for things to go wrong.
From the Vivian Maier blog:
“I have many very interesting stories and peculiar facts about Vivian but, I’ll wait to share them in the book. A book? It’s looking as if a book will be in the works very soon (starting next week, soon). If all goes well, I’ll share the specifics shortly. ”
http://vivianmaier.blogspot.com/
actually DAH – on this trip to ibiza i had one clubber tell me this about soap discos – that if a woman goes onto the dancefloor in the foam, then she has to consider that she will be grabbed, groped and otherwise clustered around in a hands on manor..
what goes on under the foam, stays under the foam..
hmm..
Never been to Ibiza, but from what I’ve heard it sounds like a place where a whole lot of things can go wrong.
BJARTE….
yes…a lot can go wrong in Ibiza….my plan was to go for three days…three weeks later i got out of there almost alive…
jeeez.. i had 4 days turn into 6 and thought that was bad.
barcelona.. that’s where i enjoy missing a plane from..
actually – the real highlight of the trip was lunch with a friend of bob B.. stefan and his family were amazingly hospitable and live in the most remarkable place..
he runs an excellent private photo collaborative site.
http://www.blog.still-dancing.com/
“almost alive”, that sounds dramatic…
I was doing some editing with another ex-teacher at wednesday when she reminded me of the phrase “kill your darlings” which I really hadn’t been thinking of for a while. Then I started thinking… How on EARTH do you know which of your darlings you should kill? (Because I have so many, that is.)
Impossible question, I guess. While you figure out some good answers I’m going to eat cheese cake and watch Inland Empire.
Have a nice evening.
Bjarte..
my insight on this..become very still/attentive/mindful when editing..listen to your own thoughts/gut reaction..if a darling comes by if there is some kind of mental jockeying about it or a minor self consciousness, look at that more carefully..sounds elementary when written out, but works for me.
that’s why I am not a photographer…
You are all my Darlings !!!
laughing all the way …
P.S My apologies for the distraction…
I know …Cacofonix is going to bed …or shall I say Alcoholix …hmmm
Viva Asterix .I love you BURNIANS !!!
BJARTE,
You are a BURNIAN…
eating cheesecake with darlings … we are coming over !!!
P.S now I am going…oh,one more thing …DAVIDB , we will need update for Tor Capa.
if the fever persists …I suggest to call the pediatrician ( western approach)
LOVE YOU ALL…
Valery:
Thanks for the kind comments; I liked your Brooklyn work and of course the Burn featured image. No; I’ve never used the Holga for assignment work. Actually, I’ve only had 2 assignments; I usually shoot everything on spec to editors, or contact them first, but not a real “assignment” per se.
I’ve only had the Holga for a few months and have put around 8 films through it so far, I’m just seeing how it performs. I’ve been a bit guilty of the “shoot something old/deserted etc with a Holga syndrome” though, but still testing at the moment!
I now feel confident to use it for some self-generated mag work though.
Cheers
CIVI, I like this one quite much…
1. B elieve
2. U nite
3. R espect
4. N urture
Could easily become a series of essays (words? images? both?) on how burn fosters those things….
Been having a hard time seeing the good light of late, in my own space….glad for this small beacon to turn to….
A.
Erica
“listen to your own thoughts/gut reaction..if a darling comes by if there is some kind of mental jockeying about it or a minor self consciousness, look at that more carefully..”
Maybe this is what “kill your darlings” is all about? First it didn’t sound very elementary to me, but now that it’s been sinking in a few minutes, it does.
Always try to listen to my own thoughts/gut reactions, but I also need at least one specific, extremely simple, reason for having every picture in “whatever I’m working at”. If I struggle to find that reason for having a picture in I often take it as an indication of weakness. But I’m very stubborn when it comes to darlings, always trying to over-analyze them to get enough reasons to keep them in.
Ross,
I look forward to seeing your self-generated mag work, please keep me updated. I have used the holga also for self-assigned assignments successfully and have shot some stock images which I have at Getty, but I always wonder if shooting an actual assignment if I would shoot with the holga entirely or probably combine the shoot with another camera, or if someone would even hire me to shoot an assignment with holgas? Look forward to seeing more of your holga work. Ciao, Valery
DAH, DAVID B, ERICA, GLENN
I was just thinking about the idea of regional editors. I think this could be really good for a couple of reasons other than reducing the work load of David and Anton.
It would help foster better communities of photographers in specific regions and could also evolve into events in those regions like projection nights or group exhibitions. Wouldn’t it be great if there were different burn projection events happening around the world – SPOT FIRES – of great photography with the best making it all the way to the big bonfire here at Burn magazine.
Another simple idea may be like the celebrity play lists on itunes. A guest editor could list say five photographers (some well known others discoveries) worth looking at and a short peice on why.
The whole thing will end up into a schmozzle with too many people pushing their own wagon on a site. One of the biggest disasters that befalls on any site is making it open slather to too many variables, the whole caper will end up as a sausage factory for photographers, a new essay every second day ,then one a day , then a couple a day etc. Everyone knows someone, everyone has a friend of a friend
.
I tend to agree with Jim this is pretty much as David as a site once he disappears from the factory floor so will burn and that is the great part about burn
.
.
Better to enjoy the ride on burn while it is fresh and free of the burden of fame and fortune
Yeah, the biggest threat to burn is success. It is probably most effective exactly like it is now. And there is the dilemma.
………..but there are those here that see burn as a vehicle of their own road to fame and fortune. …………….to that mob Get over it!
Anyone who knows Los Angeles..is Sammy’s the place to go for photo equipment? Am flying out in the morn for a week, but will check back..
Bjarte – about killing your darlings, yes that’s what i meant..
imants – re: friend f friend, it’s only a pre edit, David has the axe anyway, which would actually be a comfort in case friends did submit..wouldn’t want that on my head so much.
Also..
apologies for not having written up the workshop bit – things a little busy. Will try to do it when I get back – better late than never?
Imants,
what good idea ! :):):)
… and there are those who will always sit in the seat of judgement, whispering in bars with furtive over shoulder glances, without understanding, speaking from their own purgatories …
Erica,
Yeah Samy’s is the place (I guess). I order everything from B&H still, or craigslist. :)
I haven’t found a great place here.
to be clear about the edit again, as it is getting warped somewhat..
the idea of a guest editor would be to bring someone in from magnum for 4 essays over a month.. not to dilute the content or whack up an essay every 2 days.
also – the idea of help with initial edits has always been around, in order to share the work of cutting the obvious ‘no’s, yet without the work-flow to do it.
imants – anyone thinking they will gain fame or fortune from burn is being naive.. foolish..
“… and there are those who will always sit in the seat of judgement, whispering in bars with furtive over shoulder glances, without understanding, speaking from their own purgatories …”
TH
..quite..
“Yeah, the biggest threat to burn is success. It is probably most effective exactly like it is now. And there is the dilemma.”
JP
i don’t think anyone is suggesting that burn changes – you’re right that the formula is there already..
what could change is the workload.. off anton and david a little.. and there are easy ways to do that, but having a few people with different specialties helping cut down the initial number of submissions to then pass on for david to edit.
anton is getting his head around the site archiving as i understand it.. so viewing past stories will be easier..
some people here ask alot, of the site and of david, and there is already a great chunk of behind the scenes stuff which goes into the site.. if it would be possible to help with the behind the scenes stuff, maybe get another M photographer over for a month, and free up david and anton to spend their time on more relevant purposes, whats the BEEF?
on ‘darlings’.. i’ve not heard that before..
when i edit it’s a bit like listening to new music.. if i love it straight away, chances are it will not last.. i like ‘growers’ that take a little more time..
civi – 38.5 degrees, n a tummy not right.. he’s still himself though so all is well.. better this morning than yesterday..
still watching closely :o)
O
“The new edition of 100Eyes, Beware the Cost of War curated by Yoav Galai is online. Its a frightening reminder of the brutality of war in the Middle East…its a groundbreaking collaboration of 14 Israeli and Palestinian photojournalists, with images from the Middle East conflict juxtaposed by statements by victims from both sides.
Caution, these images are disturbing and contain graphic depictions of human cruelty!
You can view the presentation as either a “flip” book or a slideshow.
http://www.100eyes.org/”
Andy Levin
Yea Andy does a great job bringing this and other items to a greater audience
db. some really good stuff in there. agree with imants.
Been shooting a VERY loose project/idea revolving around some anarchist friends of mine. Off to the anarchist bookfair today to see if i can poke the hornests nest……oops! I meant, see if i can wind them up with some ideological shit grenades….oops oops! Sorry again..what I meant was, ‘see if i can get some good pictures while maintaing objectivity and respect for the subject’. Mind you, given the nature of some of the people i am going with there is always the possibility of a fracas…Needless to say i will stay well away from such behaviour. :))))
john
JOHNY.G,
No problem…express yourself …
as IMANTS said “…. enjoy the ride on BURN… it is fresh and free of the burden of fame and fortune”
by the way …we LOVE loose projects with anarchist notes !!!
We have a Marxist anarchist party here in Australia ……. a small odd group of individuals, though I couldn’t figure out their manifesto
Imants;
I’ve worked with quite a few anarchists (protests, environmental movements etc) and I always notice that (generally) they are just as blinkered as the people they protest about.
This is because they (like those they protest about) generally hang around and associate with likeminded folk and regurgitate the same beliefs!!! Most don’t associate with a wide range of people with differing views etc.
It’s always interesting though!
DAVIDB,
thanks for the links…what a slide …show !!!
Keep an eye on our BURN baby …Beate smile … life is beautiful !!!
Yo rock, mate…you rock…
I am waiting for your book !!!
TOM… Are you talking about me …cause I usually sit in the bar whispering…
P.S Have a beautiful essay ideas …
and goodmorning from the raining Greece !!!
KATIEEEEEEEEE
I hope you have a beautiful ZZZZZZZZZZ’s
where are you BURN MUSE, My Gracie…we miss you …
I am loyal too, Street fighter…how can I forget those cold winter nights
when I was hiding in the dark BURNing aisles …
DAVIDB, KATIE, My GRACIE…BOBB…
yes , WE ARE ALL FRIENDS …Universal friends …and we are all BURNing for
Peace, Love and PHOTOGRAPHY !!!
I lOVE you all …Spacecowboy …we miss you !!!
cant get this out of my mind ……… inglorious basterds ..the genius of tarantino
LT.ALDO
My name is Lt.Aldo Raine, and I’m
puttin together a special team.
And I need me eight soldiers.
Eight – Jewish – American – soldiers.
Now y’all might of heard rumors
about the armada happening soon.
Well, we’ll be leavin a little
earlier. We’re gonna be dropped
into France, dressed as civilians.
And once we’re in enemy territory, as
a bushwackin, guerrilla army, we’re
gonna be doin one thing, and thing
only, Killin Nazi’s.
The Members of the National Socialist
Party, have conquered Europe through
murder, torture, intimidation, and
terror. And that’s exactly what we’re
gonna do to them. Now I don’t know
bout y’all? But I sure as hell, didnt
come down from the goddamn Smoky
mountains, cross five thousand miles
of water, fight my way through half
Sicily, and then jump out of a fuckin
air-o-plane, to teach the Nazi’s
lessons in humanity. Nazi ain’t got
no humanity. There the foot soldiers
of a Jew hatin, mass murderin manic,
and they need to be destroyed.
That’s why any and every son-of-a–bitch
we find wearin a Nazi uniform, there
gonna die.
if.
LT.ALDO
(CON’T)
We will be cruel to the Germans,
and through our cruelty, they will
know who we are. They will find the
evidence of our cruelty, in the
disembowed, dismembered, and
disfigured bodies of their brothers
we leave behind us. And the German
will not be able to help themselves
from imagining the cruelty their
brothers endured at our hands, and
our boot heels, and the edge of our
knives.
And the Germans, will be sickened by us.
And the Germans, will talk about us.
And the Germans, will fear us.
And when the Germans close their eyes
at night, and their sub conscious
tortures them for the evil they’ve done,
it will be with thoughts of us,
that it tortures them with.
He stops pacing, and looks at everybody.
LT. ALDO
Sound good?
They all say;
ALL
Yes, sir!
LT.ALDO
That’s what I like to hear. But I
got a word of warning to all would-be
warriors. When you join my command,
you take on debit. A debit you owe
me, personally. Every man under my
command, owes me, one hundred nazi scalps.
And I want my scalps.
And all y’all will git me, one hundred
Nazi scalps, taken from the heads of
one hundred dead Nazi’s…
.or you will die trying.
Civi;
Cold winter nights? An absolutely stunning blue sky, powder puff cloud spring day here today. The past two days however; wet, windy and cold. I’ll have to get Imants to send some nice warm Aussie weather to us here in NZ…
Spent the entire afternoon at the skate park; back there again tomorrow. Watching, photographing the kids leap, jump, fall, fall again, laugh, swear and laugh lots more!!!
David B
Thanks for the link. My heart is pounding. What insanity. I hope these images get the circulation they deserve in Israel and the West Bank.
Just sitting here awake at two thirty AM, couldn’t sleep. Now I’ll have to go to bed with these images swirling in my head. It’s a crazy world. Somehow it has diminished the pathetic little worries that has kept me from sleeping.
Gordon; Ditto… Speechless. Man’s inhumanity knows no bounds.
I watched a WW2 doco that showed the Russian army moving into a German city that had been pulverised near the end of the war. As the Russian soldiers sat down amongst the rubble to eat (they only had bread) the little children came crawling out of the manholes. They were very young, in the 2,3,4,5 year old bracket, no mums or dads and living in the sewers. All I could think of was my partner and my grandkids who were 2 and 5 at the time having to fend for theselves in that sort of situation. I wasn’t very good at blinking back the tears….
Great shots in that book David B and thanks for the link. I don’t believe it will have the slightest impact on anything though. I’m all for bearing witness but changing hearts and minds, not to mention human nature, is another thing altogether. I don’t even believe the situation in Israel will change until one side gets a truly amazing leader. America can poor money into Israel til the cows come home but I no longer believe anyone but a local hero will save the place. It needs a Nelson Mandela and nothing less. It doesn’t matter whether that person is Israeli or Palestinian but it needs a hero of the highest order to change things; someone who can reunite the two peoples and establish political equality between them. In the meantime it’s going to be business as usual. It has been ever thus. Yes, its a depressing outlook but I think photographers can stop kidding themselves about what can be achieved with photographs.
“pour” money
BURNIANS,
Man’s inhumanity …yes…
“Remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall — think of it, ALWAYS.”
Mahatma Gandhi (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)
P.S a suggestion to the young souls …History…pay attention to History…
…what not to LOVE !!!
Andrea; “I don’t believe it will have the slightest impact on anything though”
I don’t want to start another “it won’t make a difference” debate as it tends to go round and round in circles; but at least they are attempting to make a difference. But I do agree that it needs a hero of the highest order to change things..
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing”
Ross these guys never went out on a protest………. plus they are “Marxist anarchists”….. they just drank, argued and scribed……….. hired live music that the chose to ignore
Ross,
My position on what photography can achieve does not preclude people from making such pictures. I think people still need to see/know what is going on over there and what is involved in war. But I think photographers can stop the pretense about being heros. Yes I know it is dangerous to be there. But they are there because they love to be there. If someone would pay me, I’d go myself. I love action and adventure (despite how much time I waste sitting around doing nothing much). If they tell themselves they are there for the betterment of mankind, or because they might be able to change something, I think that’s a bit of self-delusion or just naive.
Did you see George Gittoes documentary, the Roof is on Fire? Actually I don’t know if that is what it was called. It was about the soldiers in Iraq and the theme was their love and use of music. Now that was an EXCELLENT documentary. Gittoes is a war artist.
Now I will go and watch your link.
IMANTS…JIM
i think you are both saying the same thing….and of course we all know that a certain kind of success does kill the original creativity in anything….if you have kept up with my comments during the last three years or if you knew me personally , you would know that i have tried my whole career to keep the success out of success…it is much more creative and interesting to be the garage band that gets a hit record than to be an established band with a new album…
the real creativity is in the invention , not in the “success”….since i did not start to even do anything resembling success with Burn and was in totally new territory for me all along, whatever has happened here so far has the same purity to it as my original hand made books…last night some of us sat on my front porch and listened to Lance Rosenfields’s recording from my apartment 10 months ago when i decided to go with the name Burn and 10 friends were sleeping all over my floor and inventing Burn…..i had no idea until last night that such a recording even existed…we will make a year end slide show using this tape and some photographs…we also skimmed through the archives and literally “watched” like a movie how things have transpired here…one of the pure beauties of this blog format is that it is a matter of clear record how things transpire…if you cannot remember exactly, just go back and re-read….i.e. the evolution of Anton into the equation will defy almost everyone’s memory including my own…..
i have never measured my own values or sense of so called accomplishment by value systems others bestow upon me…the things i think i have done right in life, are rarely the things others think to be my high marks…i have my own personal value system that occasionally mirrors the outside view, but not usually…
my sense is that we are still in the garage….writing songs….new ideas….new lyrics…new melody….the reason of course this still has room to grow and breathe is simply because the content here belongs to you…that is the secret here…fresh new content coming in all the time and with no editorial or artistic parameters other than integrity of intent and accuracy of report…
the whole spirit of Burn is quite simply a reflection of what was happening last night on my porch…a small group gathered…Bickford on guitar…fire in the pit….hand made books laid out on the table…dummy pictures just taped all over every wall ..good vibes all around…isn’t that enough??
cheers, david
More than enough for me…!!!
maybe some octopus with ouzo
No wakkas there David……………… the problems can occur because this is the wonderful world of the www and it is as fickle as it is predictable. The audience is no longer intimate, the guys in the garage down the street can listen in and play the game in a different way as they too have a ferocious appetite for success.
As I wrote lets enjoy while all is fresh and alive…………..
fuck….
i just woke up somewhere in greece…
thought it was a dream…
i got try to do this again..
must be a dream… better be…
iPhone cant find anywhere to connect..
plz do NOT text yet until i figure this out…
only emails..
innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com
innerspacecowpanos@mac.com
what not to love?
everything..
how about what not to hate?
If there’s one thing Ive gotten out of my association with this motley crew it’s that the journey is the thing,and the folks you meet on the way are all that matter.
Some of them drive me crazy!
Some of them make me think!
Some of them want me to have a drink!
I came into this little game a different photographer than I am now thanks to the folk I’ve met along the way and till a few days ago all Lucie meant to me was the name of a girl I once treated carelesley.
David, I think I understand what you are saying. It’s the ride that matters, not the destination (if there is really even a destination at all).
one of the photos in the slide show andy levin has presented on 100eyes, (the face of the dead buried girl), was used on the front page of newspaper – dagbladet – here in norway.
it caused a real stir, as it would.. as the media can if it presents all sides.. and almost certainly influenced peoples opinions about the conflict.
IMANTS…PANOS…GLENN….JIM…MATT
yes of course it is the ride that counts…i metaphorically have you guys sitting in the back of my van and we are rolling down the highway with the music turned up and adventure of some kind awaits, but we do not know what ….all of you know very well that i never had a “destination” in mind…suggest to me that we should take that dirt road to the right and damn we just might take it to see where it goes…that was the inspiration for Road Trips which turned into Burn which could turn into something else…hang on boys and girls…we might not get to where we started to get to, but i promise i won’t let you get bored…just when you might think so, we go around the bend….
cheers, david
Each of you BURNIANS…you are one Odyssey …
wandering around…the Universe with your cameras …
and yes, JIM …the ride is what matters …
PANOS in Greekland …what not to LOVE !!!
The Van –
I’ll drive!
If
Panos skins up!
Jim holds the map!
Imants fills the esky!
Matt films it!
DAH pays for the gas!
GLENN…
you got it right mate!!
Glenn… thats was good … ha ha
DAH – The Aussie $ is reaching parity! Thinking I might come to Bangers and learn a trick or 3!
MARCIN…
hmmmmm, well ok , we just picked up a hitchhiker and that would be you!!! jump in the back, open that bottle of wine, pour us each a glass (or plastic cup) and hang on tight…not enough seat belts to go around…
cheers, david
DAH, ws-participants, any pics to share of the bookmaking? Now that’s something I’d be interested in!
David,
have you watched the road movie ” Im Juli ” (= In July ) by Fatih Akin by any chance ? I think you’d like it :)
best,
K
PS: Lara & I get closer to giving you a shout…
Is it true there is an Aussie Burnian heading to NY soon?
If yes, be sure to email me – I’ll take you for a beer or six and introduce you to the NY Aussie posse’ that frequent this place! We’re few, but fierce!
Civi, BIG love for you today!
David B, the picture of the girl and the one of the boy interested me the most too. i guess because they were the most novel of all the pictures. It brought home the injustice and brutality of war more than any of the others. I wonder how it changed people’s opinion in Norway? If it made the readers less pro-israeli, that wouldn’t be what the makers of the book were on about it, would it. They were on about how brutal war was per se, rather than it being about taking sides. I thought they were trying to stop war. Don’t we all want it to stop anyway.
Perhaps this sort of photography can be considered to restrain the excesses of those in power just a little. Perhaps that’s what this photography can achieve – because they know they will have to answer to the public afterwards. Even so, they don’t seem to suffer much for it when their lack of restraint is eventually exposed. I think I am too jaded. But anyway, this brings me to the pictures of Abu Ghraib. Now those pictures could be said to have brought change.
If these Israeli pictures are to make any difference they have to reach into the hearts and minds of Israelis and Palestinians, and I think especially the hard right Israelis. And the reaction has to be strong enough to affect the leadership just as the abu ghraib pictures were strong enough to affect the leadership in the States.
Maybe that’s what war photographers should be going for if they want to stop their own governments in its tracks – The most shocking pictures imaginable. The pictures that show its own government at its very worst. I guess the picture of the girl and boy do show that – but is it bad enough? I wonder how Israelis reacted to it. I wonder if they’ve even seen the pictures. I wonder if any Israeli newspaper showed it on its front page? If not, I wonder why not? Some of the newspapers would be quite liberal I expect.
VIVA KERRY the Silent BURN power !!!
someone said that you are a hardcore AUSSIE …What not to LOVE !!!
BURNIANS…I am a Civilian…I know how to change tires…can I come with you in the van ???
P.S Ok, keep shooting !!!
This isn’t going to be like the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, right? :)
MR.JIM,
hihihi…laughing hysterically
only Electic …funniest, Lovely !!!
KATIE,
wake up Street fighter…the van is leaving !!!
P.S I saw BODO around …BURNIANS run …the vannnnn!!!
and now it’s…
Kh
I sing Travel from IM JULI all the time. Like a lullaby to myself. Love the scene when they are high.
EVA…
yes, we will make a link…..
JIM…
of course not…this trip will be much wilder…
David B,
disturbing images from 100eyes. No idea if the images change anything but they are important documents.
The world has to see this!
We can only hope that they make people in Israel and Palestine understand that violence is a dead end road.
I wonder if people can forgive. In my view the only way out of this misery. Too much loss, too much anger, too much hatred.
Very little hope, but HOPE.
Vivek,
the movie „Inglorious Basterds“ is entertainment. To those who like Tarantino movies, like me, it is good fun to watch. The film however is fiction and has little to do with reality.
My grandfather died as a German soldier in WW II in the Ukraine. My father never met his father and I never met my grandpa. I would have liked to know him.
War sucks – always!
Peace
Reimar
DAH,
It’s enough… until the next turn.
Paul
Andrea “Yes I know it is dangerous to be there. But they are there because they love to be there. If someone would pay me, I’d go myself.”
Respectfully; if you really wanted to go there you would, whether there was someone to pay you or not…
Cheers
David AH,
You made me think of a time long, long ago. I was going to be a ski bum. I left college and drove from Louisville, KY with one hundred bucks in my pocket; first stop Taos, NM. By then I’m down to sixty and change.
I went up to the valley, knocked on some doors and the next thing you know I’m hired and bunking with guy fresh out of Dartmouth. Damn that was a great winter. Frank Shorter was training for the Mexico Olympics and I kept his skis in shape. One day I look down in the valley where Frank ran and I see this pacing and then passing him. That night I met and drink with Steve Prefontaine. It’s not just about the skiing don’t you know.
You see where this is going? It’s like the story above that attracts me to BURN. I ain’t got a lot in my pocket, but I’m trusting that it’s worth the ride. Yes I did pick up at least two hitch hikers along the way.
Paul
Reimar
yesss, there is always hope. Because we are human.
I was lucky. My grandfather was the only surviver of his company. I think it was in the Ukraine too. He told me the story of how they got attacked on a field and everybody got down into the mud. Later, when the fire ceased, he got up and noticed that he was the only one. And then he saw something shimmering in the mud – it was a letter holder out of silver … in form of a vikinger ship. I see these images in front of me like in a movie, as if I had been there. He became a war prisoner. And later they were “given” to farms, to help on the fields – some slave like situation it was supposed to be – a hard life. But my grandfather befriended the people he was staying at – for anyone who has had the chance to get to know him, the most buddha like person I have ever known – this was not a surprise. So a man who was his “enemy” became his best friend. And with him the whole village.
They stayed friends forever – even after my grandfather was allowed to return to Germany, to his wife and 3 children. And his last wish, many years later, when the doctors told him that he was dying, was for my ucle to take him there again, so he could say his friends farewell.
They were enemies and became friends. Amongst the brutallity of war this freindship blossomed nonetheless. So there is hope. There always will be, because that is part of humanity too. That is one facette of us.
I just wished he was still alive – my granddad – I would have so many questions now that I did not have when I was little
Hey yall,
is there still room on the back of that van?
I think I am in for that ride!
Lassal; A touching story. Even more so because it is true. Thanks :-)
Ross, yes. Reality sometimes is striking in both ways.
I forgot a detail.
The vikinger ship out of silver, that was probably buried on that potato field along with other valuables by some family of the nearby village. It was given by the village to my granddad as a farewell gift along with a family ring of his new friend when he was set free to return to Germany.
I grew up with this silver letter-holder embracing my grandparents` writings at my parent’s home. As I grew up in Brazil far away from my grandparents … It is still at my parents’ house, now holding drawings of their granddaugher.
We’re gonna need a bigger van, or make it a convoy….
Hmmmm…Road Trip! We’ll need some supplies…
A.
It is a magic van, Andrew, it streches …
:-)
Good night BURNland …
Reimar, Lassal – your stories brought back some memories…
War really does suck. Always.
But what I really love, is this stretching van!
;-)
g’night lassal. make sure little dog is tucked in safe & sound.
LASSAL…
there is always room for you in the van…if there is no room, i will make room for you…one of those boys will just have to jump out and take the bus…
cheers, david
DAH,
if ever panos’ music gets too loud for the hearing aids or
if youd get ad nauseaum with jim powers’ disco music,
pick me up and my karaoke mike.
sometimes u need to detach your emotions just to start feeling again…
u might have to remove yourself and to look back and observe..
for the last half a year i lived in DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES..
little Salvador..
McArthur Park…
Dirty, shady, colorful, happy, drugged up, fucked up downtown LA…
I followed myself and that lover of mine for a while around the crazy streets
of downtown full of “illegal” hopes and illusions..
AS you know by now, editing is not my forte.. i could care less.. thats why we have DAH
in the first place…laughing..
so please allow me to give you a little tour around little salvador…
here is slideshow no:1
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif11?authkey=Gv1sRgCN-g9vKqrdz-aw#slideshow/5396378977138848210
study of faces from the street in little salvador
PART 1
RAFAL
This is a response to your comment on Chica Barbie. You speak from a male perspective. And a male who knows nothing about Latin America. I don’t live in Columbia. I live two countries to the north but Latino is Latino is Latino. The country might have a different name but machismo is alive and well in Latin America. Let me tell you what it’s like being an average girl here, ok? You’re born. You’re dolled up. You’re told to go show off how pretty you are for your Papi, taught how to be a coqueta. How to be courteous above all things. You have to ask your father for permission to breathe. You learn at your mother’s knee how to work your childish feminine charm for pocket change, earrings, a video game. Your mother does your school homework for you. You learn to think that you can’t think without your mother right there beside you. You are discouraged from having an original thought in your head. You are discouraged from having one single dream other than having some guy take care of you because you’re too much of a princesa to actually work for a living. Above all you are discouraged from leaving home. You are filled with fear about the world so that you do not ever leave.
You hit adolescence. Your school notebooks are filled with precisely drawn and colored rainbows, hearts, stars and little animals. You don’t excel at school because the only thing that matters is that you pass. If you get good grades you are ridiculed by your classmates and nobody at home really cares anyway. Your mother is probably single by now and working her fingers to the bone. You don’t see your father much because your mother used you to try to get blood out of a stone and he has long since given up visitation rights..assuming he ever wanted them. Maybe he’s left the country altogether. You wonder about him. Your heart won’t let him go. It’s confusing. But you get prettier and prettier and are urged to try your hand at one of these contests. It’s the only thing that will maybe get you out of the barrio once and for all. Just like soccer might get a boy out. Same dream. Your grades totally suck, especially math. What other choice do you have? Being a coqueta is all you have ever been taught to do well.
Beautiful girls in Latin America who are poor, who have no other resource are like a comet streaking across the sky. So breathtaking, so exciting, so thrilling, flying so high. And then it’s over, so fast it makes your head spin. You’re pregnant, the guy is who knows where, as fast as that the glow is gone. And i do mean gone. So far gone you might wonder if it was ever there to begin with. And then it’s your turn to be a single mom working your finger to the bone in a patriarchal society. Getting older, probably fatter in a land that worships skinny, young beauty queens.
Are you a flat, one dimensional shallow caricature? Yes, i am afraid so. Because it’s the only thing you know how to be. Unless you managed to get the hell out. Or maybe you had a mother and/or a father who allowed you to be proud of your intelligence. But if not, and if you were cursed with a well-endowed brain as well as beauty, well more’s the pity. Because you will not only end up broke and working your fingers to the bone but you’re probably very screwed up in the head as well. There is NO way for a woman to ultimately be the winner in a patriarchal society. Unless she’s very very very lucky. Or she gets out. And many, many Columbians do get out. Men and women alike. I know them. They are resented and mistrusted in other parts of the world. Correctly or not, they bear the burden of their country’s reputation wherever they go.
I read once something a Latino male said, “We put women on a very high pedestal so we can kick it out from under them”. Look at the photos, Rafal. WHO is judging these women? Who’s protecting them from harm? Who’s guiding them, training them, guarding them, ogling them, corrupting them, getting them drunk? The women might have the upper hand for a brief time but unless they’re hearts are made of steal, which they are not, they will fall and will fall hard at the feet of a society that is run by men.
I am not criticizing your comments. I think you make good points. But you say that many woman are born with a ticket to success that the man does not have. Well, Rafal, only some women are born to be beauty queens, wherever that may or may not take them in life. But all women are born inferior to males in a country that endows ALL men with the birthright to rule the roost.
Take care Rafal..
Kathleen
“We put women on a very high pedestal so we can kick it out from under them”
Nietzsche once said about politicians:” we put them on a pedestal so we can kick it out from under…”
Kathleen ola from rainy grecolandia…;)
Katie; That’s a pretty sobering commentary…
Panos
Photo #95 in your slide show is unspeakably beautiful. Knocked my socks off.
Are you really in Greece?
Interesting..maybe that Latino read Nietzsche, huh?
have fun in Eurolandia, it must be good to be out of Pequeno Salvador for awhile, huh? I know you never really grew to like it. I know what you mean. But you did have fun shooting it and a lot of the photos are good. Some are very average. But then there are those that succeed and do so very well.
N’joy.
Kathie
It looks like the van is going to eventually become a bus.
And as the song goes:
“The bus came by and I got on, that’s when it all began
There was Cowboy Neil (Dave / Glenn C!) at the wheel of the bus to never ever land….”
“Never ever” what, I’m not sure, but it can only be a good thing.
Justin
Ross
I described a composite picture..there are of course many exceptions. Not saying all fathers leave and all mothers are manipulators and all girls have no way out..this is just a general overall view. The third world is tough on people, men and women alike. But women really get the short end of the stick because they’re the ones raising the kids most of the time. And that leaves them with one hand tied behind their backs while the men are pretty much free to make it or break it with both hands free.
Anyway, sorry to be so depressing tonight..please forgive me, k?
hugZ
kat
KAT,
thank you…
i tried to understand the dynamics..
lots of walking around….
here is Little Salvador
SLIDESHOW 2
PART 2…( way less photos here…dont worry..;)
PART 2:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF12?authkey=Gv1sRgCOyVtPzj1JjEFQ#slideshow/5396395452672748274
Panos
Are you going to meet Civi? Does anyone ever meet Civi?
Panos
no it’s ok that there’s a lot of photos..i am really enjoying your slide shows..you clearly had a fascination for the faces. For what they were telling you about themselves. I understand that fascination totally. I keep trying to solve the mystery too. But haven’t cracked the code yet. hahaha, i typed coke instead. Haven’t cracked that code yet either..you will never understand them. There are too many contradictions.
kat
and Kat,yes im in motherfucking grecolandia..
and yes i needed to see my family 15 years later..
and yes i hate this country from the bottom of my heart…
ahhhhhh… i miss my baby
Panos..
You did a good job. There’s a great essay hiding in all those photos. I’m not crazy about the ones you did some weird post processing to in the first slide show. I love the faces, i love the “stretch” photo..the people..i hope you do a serious finished product. Make all that time and walking worth the trouble. Finish what you started. You give amazing eye.
hugZ
Kat
you hate Greece???????????????
*trying to puzzle through that remark*
Great song, Panos..is it dedicated to #95? :))
k/
Hey, one last thing Pancito,
Your slide shows gave me so much confidence to keep going with my own work here. You and i have more in common than you might think.
*smile*
take care, have a wonderful day where you are.
kat
yes… its for Freida….
but i want to share a PART 3…
FROM LITTLE SALVADOR…
bare with me a second…
plz dont go to sleep yet…
Pancito…:)))))
my mexican friends call me pancito…ahhhhhhhh
Panos,
From what I’ve looked at in the past, these new photographs are some of your best work, if not THE best!
But come on, work on a serious edit, it’s part of the job. Would be interesting to see which photographs you thought told this story best.
Sometimes though I do wish you would have hung around some scenes a bit longer, such as that great “swap meet” building.
Perhaps you’ll produce something even better in Greece? Last thing I knew you were in an RV heading to Mexico! Did they turn you away at the border?
Justin
no i’m here scanning..just to tell you a little story while you’re doing Part 3..i went to this mass birthday party here for a chocolate company. I got there and for various reasons got so depressed i barely got one roll off. And even that was only 24 frames. I was just overwhelmed by stimulus i guess. I left feeling the entire afternoon had been a wash. Scanning the negs now and there’s some amazing shots on the roll. i learned a lesson from this. We feel overwhelmed by situations because they’re challenging us. We have to find a way to hang on, gather our strength, don’t run away. I ran, i hope the next time i stick around.
Ahhhh, Frieda, eh? She’s lovely :) Tell her i said that, k?
kat/
Panos:
“my mexican friends call me pancito…”
But of course they do, amigo, what else WOULD they call you?
heh
Justin..
love u man.. and i agree with u..
sorry for my unedited laziness…
and yes I WALKED ACROSS THE BORDER AND BACK..
i did go to MEXICO…
IM PREPARING the slideshow as we speak..
but first..
let me post LITTLE SALVADOR PARTIII
just give me a second ..
plz dont go…im almost done..
big hug
PANOS,
Wha happen’?
PS. it’s not grecolandia, it’s the jet lag. sleep it off. eat some lamb. eat more lamb.
Go shoot your hate, malaka. if it comes to it. show us some anger, alright. don’t get physical – those Arta people will beat the hell out of you.
Cheers from smoglandia.
hai, haik!
no saludos for another friend hanging around? sheesh…these men. grrr..
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF13?authkey=Gv1sRgCLyr9PDyjYuzfQ#slideshow/5396415977619947922
HAIK, KAT, JUSTIN,ALL…
DWNTN LA PART III
Katie; Not depressing, but the view of an “insider”
I’m editing yesterday’s skatepark shoot, got 4 that will make the first cut (101-105) but otherwise a load of crap. I don’t know but seem to be going through a period of not being able to shoot the proverbial side of a barn. Sure my quality expectations have increased, but can’t use that as an excuse.
http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/18440
The stupid thing is that when I pick up the holga I seem to see pics everywhere, bloody frustrating…. Oh well, give myself a swift uppercut and get back on the horse (talk about mixing metaphors..) :-)
As an aside if you’re turning the van into a bus; why not a magic bus? Let the imagination soar…
KATIE,
of course Panos met Civilian !!!
every BURNIAN has met Civilian …just check around you .I am next to you …
I AM EVERYDAY CIVILIAN !!! I am next to you all along…
PANOS,
listen …”Go shoot your hate, malaka. if it comes to it. show us some anger, alright…”
listen …and focus …THANK YOU HAIK ,kATIE,JUSTIN !!!
BURNIANS…please , go out and smell the clouds and the rocks and the bird poop…
then go home and try to edit whatever you have experienced …
and EDIT ,EDIT TIGHT …and when you are ready …then put gas on the van ,buckle up and do the
BURN scream …YIOUHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!
LOVE ,LOVE,LOVE…yeap, I am next to you BURNIANS …( can you shoot me)???
PANOS:
Great! Seriously though, get off your lazy arse and edit. This should be your next Burn essay for sure.
Take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBBxJtvKeQ
Good day in Greece – I hope?
Cheers,
Justin
eeks…back after call from daughter at Pomona..what did i miss?
comments and slide shows and links and ohmyyyyyyyy
Civilian, Good Morning..good point about being everywhere, you slippery rascal, but inside you there’s a real INDIVIDUAL? Dig???? THAT’S what i was talking about..has anyone met Civi? Does anyone ever meet Civi?
Haik-u
blowing you a mushroom cloud sized kiss…not me, babe, i’m barely allowed to be responsible for myself, let alone this wily group ;)
Ross
Well, not exactly an insider..i’m a foreigner here..but raised a daughter here who’s dad is latino and let me tell you, she went to college in the US over his dead body (practically) and on scholarship no less. The man is rolling in his grave and he isn’t even dead.
If you see photos everywhere you look with your Holga then you have found a genie in a camera and you had better not let go of that thing till you have drained every last photo out of that wad of plastic and film that you can. Hear? Didn’t open your links yet cuz just catching up.
Panos
ditto to slide show #3..but will open all now..Haik is right..shoot your hate. ABSO-F*IN-LUTELY!!!
k/
“put gas on the van”
Civilian why don’t you put your friggin love crap in a bucket and sit on it while contemplating a good quality fart………………
JUSTIN…once again i agree..
serious rain in greece…95% humidity…
horrible…
ok let me post the 3 slideshows from Little Salvador in one post so my friends here wont have to look around
to figure it out..
PART I
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif11?authkey=Gv1sRgCN-g9vKqrdz-aw#slideshow/5396378977138848210
PART II
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF12?authkey=Gv1sRgCOyVtPzj1JjEFQ#slideshow/5396395452672748274
PART III
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF13?authkey=Gv1sRgCLyr9PDyjYuzfQ#slideshow/5396415977619947922
Haik…
wa happin????
love u man…
Ross
My eyes are really bleary from scanning..i clicked the link but see all your work i believe..where is the Holga work?
Imants
why don’t you put an elastic band around your head and snap out of it? When even our own mothers stop loving us there will still be Civilian, and i for one am damned glad of it.
kat/
Civilian why don’t you put your friggin love crap in a bucket and sit on it while contemplating a good quality fart………………
laughing
laughing
laughing
u made my day…( once again )
Panos
#28 with all those little dolls’ hands tied together in prayer…whoa!!!!!!!!!!
Kat..:)
gotta admit.. Imants is funny… really funny…
what not to love?
Imants
Yoy are the first to offend a Civilian. I’m a court martial you.
Fertilized cheers.
PANOS – ALL:
Please check the youtube link – now it’s time for you to comment on my work….
Hitting the trails on my bike now.
You’ll get used to the rain.
Justin
Panos
Excellent like always. Your photography is like joy division music. not easy, not for everyone, but for sure with claws.
When a pictures from greece?
peace (for crazy photogs)
Panos
Imants is adorable…like a cuddly plastic dinosaur.
Love #21 too..
Haik…fertilized cheers..hahahahaha…
Hey Panos there is some great helter skelter stuff among those photos
Katie; Just practice stuff with the holga at the moment, but now I know how/where it shoots I’m away!! but can only shoot a roll or two a week because of $’sss!
Just click on my name and then galleries tab and look for holga.
Cheers
offend my arse!!! The Civilian has been dropping silent ones on us for a while………..
:) ha ha ha. silent ones !!! it seemed pretty loud to me. what time is in your zone?
Imants
Your arse is beyond offending.
Who gave you 3D glasses to see what’s real about Civilian? He’s right, you know? He’s us..just look in the mirror..you’ll see Civilian. Or what your take on him is anyway. Same with me, DAH, Jim, everybody. We’re all Civilian.
Ross..ok will check again..
k/
ALL, PLEASE PROCEED TO THE COURT MARTIAL HALL.
HER HONOR KATHLEEN FONSECA is presiding.
Let your trees dry and die if you lie.
:-|
IMANTS,IMANTS, my mate,
What not to fart …I haven’t stopped farting since day one…hihi…I can’t even do silents anymore:(((…due to age restrictions
I am in tears…I am in tears…it might be the gas…
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLL
P.S I had hours to laugh and fart so hard !!!
Thank you ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL…I am in awe
Ross
#8 and 15! great! Keep going……:))
Haik
ORDER IN THE COURT!! There will be no contempt in my courtroom…first witness for the prosecution, Imants..i see your evidence is a bucket full of crap..hmm..it’s pretty good sh*t, alright..and you say that was emitted in silence by the accused Civilian? hmm..well, I can see that you are an expert witness on the subject of sh*t so…
Civilian Mass Audience, what do you have to say for yourself?
Oups… The bar has been raised …
P.S back to regular F…program …farting all the way to the EXIT…:)))
ouzo anyone ???
and as KATIE (love u) wrote :
WE ARE ALL farting CIVILLIANS …!!!
Now, you can shoot me !!!
ahhhh…well the Civilian defendant has denied all silent farts emitted or not emitted in accordance with the anti-farting rules set in place by our honorable Mayor D. A. Harvey. Seeing as Mayor Harvey is the supreme silent farter on this here Lucie award winning magazine, my decision is to throw this case right outta court..and me right with it..so i am outta here..
by’ y’all!
besos, Civilian!
STREET FIGHTER, KATHLEEN FONSECA ,
I am sending you a Silent one from my Civilian heart !!!
HAIK,PANOS …do you want one ???
P.S Friendly BURNing fire from my bottom of my heart …Viva !!!
Civi
*wink*
Imants
ditto
nightall
k/
Justin
After beggining I don’t like the movie is just great. I like it very much.
ALL….
i am off to Colorado to see my mother….then down to Mexico for two weeks…my participation here in the comments section will be minimal since my internet connects in Oaxaca are terrible….i will try to get a new Dialogue post done tomorrow if possible or just do one from an internet cafe when i arrive in Mexico…we have also built a pretty cool slide show of the hand made book making effort in Carolina and will get it here to you soonest…
in the meantime, please keep the home fires burning….new essays and singles will be published as per normal…
cheers, david
David I contacted Anton …..
David……….
visiting your mom?!!
… same here amigo… same here….
safe travels..:))))))))
Davd, Bonnes Vacances
Safe travels to all BURNIANS and of course to MR.BURNDAH…
it’s hard to be out there in the Universe without connection…
but you are THE BURNIAN …hihih…we count on you !!!
we send all our good energy … out there !!!
SOCRATES, MR.HARVEY’S mama ,you are THE real Power Force behind BURN …
Love and respect…
P.S IMANTS…I know …what are you thinking …hmmmm
LOVE PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY !!!
I better go now… I am starting to get kinda tedious …
P.S I LOVE YOU ALLLLL
Civi,
good morning! Sunshine over here plus day light saving time thing changed – got an extra hour today! Juhuhhh!
Imants,
I really had to laugh out loud this morning when I read about your farting comment… and I am so glad I can smile again! Thanks for this great sense of humor!
Panos,
great images from L.A. !!! Love this kind of street photography. Editing is inevitable though… Go and shoot Greece now!!!
Ross,
had a look at your lightstalkers page and I liked the images of the bands very much.
Have you ever heard of Chris Knox and Alec Bathgate? They are my all time favourite band called “The Tall Dwarfs”.
David,
safe trip and I wish you a great time in Mexico!
Burnians, enjoy the day!
Best
Reimar
Okay, it is early in the day, but I guess it is time for some kiwi noise. Watch this:
Panos – there is indeed a Little Salvador essay for here in those somewhere.
Justin P – very much liked the trailer for the Eric project.
DAH
Durango rocks ! In a former life I use to race in white water kayaking events there.
that is a great little corner of the world….
thank u all…
1:36 pm in grecolandia… still early but jet lag just kicked in…
going to crash…
i will torture later with another link … crossing the mexican border
with “jim morrison”…
plz dont go away…
over & out
big hug
Just caught the last of these comments… and am now wondering how could anyone disagree with that PERFECT message 7 comments up: LOVE, PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY! Not by, but for: a mass civilian or otherwise audience! Raising a glass to that: LOVE PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY!
So much peace and love here, I’m starting to have flashbacks to the summer of ’69.
JENNY LYNN WALKER,
LOVE,PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY…it’s BURNing around the Universe for quite some time …
By the way, this message is posted from my beloved SPACECOWBOY …if i can remember well
( age restrictions…).Where are you BURNSpace…where???
CREDIT when credit is due…:)))
P.S Jen,I would love to see your photos !!!
No worries JIMMY…
as my grandma used to say…
NOBODY DIED from too MUCH LOVE…
second thought …I think that my grandma was wrong…
REIMAR,
yes, extra hour of Happiness !!!
P.S JIMMY…I know you are ready to throw up BUT I can’t hold it anymore …
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
17 degrees n all is well..
happy sunday all round..
37, of course.. he’s not dead @ room temp.
Tor Capa …37…What not to LOVE !!!
Reimar, I enjoyed your video link. I don’t know this guy either but it was amusing.
JENNY LYNN
I think you are WAY cool..have read a few of your articulate posts this morning that i found here and there and i have to say..please keep it up!
best to you
Kathleen
Jenny Lynn
oops…meant to say, Jenny, that i found your posts here and there around Burn..don´t want you to think i´m an internet stalker ;)
k-
A question
Is there anything against displaying documentary photos desaturated but leaving some colour in. I mean is desaturation a manipulation that Pete Marovich would disapprove of? I’ve found that I love this quality. Especially in landscapes. Where is Pete anyway? Maybe Jim knows. Anyone? I suppose there is the danger that this will become a mere style that dates but at the moment, I like it so much I want to do it to everything. I’ll put a landscape done this way on my name-link.
David Bowen
Glad to hear your son is getting better..it had to have been a frantic couple of days around the Bowen household!
best
k-
AndreaC
I am not a PJ and this is far from the final word on a technique such as partial desaturation but i was sent something by a friend titled ¨What every aspiring photographer should know¨..excerpted from that very straightforward list, for what it´s worth:
Gimmicks and merchandise will come and go, but honest photography is never outdated.
Remember that if your work looks like everyone else’s, there’s no reason for a client to book you instead of someone else. Unless you’re cheaper. And nobody wants to be known as ¨the cheaper photographer¨.
Never forget why you started taking pictures in the first place. Excellent technique is a great tool, but a terrible end product. The best thing your technique can do is not call attention to itself. Never let your technique upstage your subject.
best
Kat
AndreaC:
Here´s the entire article…it was written by Cheryl Jacobs
http://photodino.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/advice/
k-
Andrea, B&W does not reflect the appearance of the real world, so why should partial desaturation be an issue? My fear would be that some day I would look back at it and wonder what the heck I was thinking! ;)
KAT, AndreaC
the link to the list you are refering to was in PE just now:
http://photodino.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/advice/
good list of obvious points … nonetheless often forgotten.
oh … I see I was too slow :-))
Today, I wish, I wish,
I AM KATHLEEN FONSECA…!!!
P.S KATIE, have you started the book …:)))
I will take your Silence as a YES !!!
and where is our PATRICIA ???
P.S BURN LADIES are on the roll…
BURN LADIES are DA WOMEN …!!! Viva BURNIANS !!!
I am stuck in this incredible workload right now … for the next 7 days. And the lack of pauses is already slowing me down. Damn.
PANOS
saw your links up. Will check as soon as I can – cannot wait!
Have fun in Greece … Gee, that must be one strange feeling for you. A good time for emotions to come up you never knew you had :-)
Looking forward to hear more.
Take good care of yourself.
CIVI,
I hope you stay CIVI.
Would miss you otherwise …
:) There is no civi like “our” BURN CIVI.
CIVI is all in one!
ok. off to work again.
ngangnanngan…
Andrea
There are certainly no “rules” in this regard.
I like the look, though it is something I seldom do. We’ve seen lots of pumped up saturation here, done both digitally and by Fuji Velvia fans so I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a little de-saturation. Pure black and white after all is total de-saturation and a total manipulation.
You might run afoul of the purist crowd if you start doing the selective black and white/colour combos, which can be very trendy but are a little gimmicky for my taste. At the same time traditional split toning and selective toning are embraced by the “FINE” art folks.
I say just go for it and stop worrying and just go with your own vision. I like your landscape.
and let’s hear all of you screaming …
I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER …
I can’t hear you
LASSAL,
go back to work BURN Lady…we need to pay the gas for the BURNED VAN…
P.S and it seems that nobody wants me in the van cause I am doing …silents…you know…
hmmm….
BUT …I LOVE you allllll
CIVI,
I see you standing on the top of the van with a separate huuuuge signal horn … :-)
And a bottle of ouzo.
BURNIANS,
with all my LOVE and respect…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl9bvuAV-Ao
MAGIC BUS
WHO
P.S Goodnight from rural Greece …and now PLEASE scream…
I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER !!!
Kathleen, I like that picture whether its colour of black and white or half colour. But when I put the three together (for this image), i like the desat most, the colour second and the b/w after that. I was thinking of doing some b/w landscapes but then I thought I’d try this. I’ve been interested in the desat style for a little while now, not long mind you because its only a little while that I’ve been serious again about photography. But since I’ve begun using photoshop and you can push colour all over the place, I am starting to find strong colour a bit too much, often but not always. And sometimes, I’m not even sure what the colour strength should be. (talking only about my own work)
I certainly take your point, and Jim’s, about if everyone’s doing it… I think Anton did it in his tattoo picture, he might confirm/deny that. It was subtle but i thought he did that and I liked it what he did a lot.
Kathleen, for me, in my photography composition and subject matter always come first, then style. Do you think it looks gimmicky in that picture? Maybe it’s too much contrast. This technique reminds me of hand coloured photos. I never got into hand colouring my pictures but I still remember the workshop we had on it at college and I remember my lecturer talking about the controversy over it in earlier times. I think this technique has quite a long history now. It might even be respectable.
Anyway food for thought, thanks for replying. Now I will read your link.
I will wake everyone up if i scream Civi.
Andrea
I agree, it’s a technique that can make things look good. But I’d say you should only desaturate if the photograph benefits from it. The technique should serve a cause and you should be able to explain what the cause is.
I try to observe as much as I can what type of saturation a photograph has in the first place, before editing. Some photographs come out as very saturated from the camera, others doesn’t. The light usually decides that. It looks more unnatural if a picture shot in hard/strong light is desatured in photoshop because the effect is so big. My advice is to use masks and fine-tune the layers you are working with. One thing leads to the other. One hour leads to another hour. And so on. The funny thing about photoshopping is the process from where you feel totally blank about what you should do -> to when you simply can’t stop working with it.
And I totally agree with Jim. Desaturation can’t possibly be more manipulation than b&w is.
Gordon, I know what selective toning is. I’ve had a go at that – enjoyed it once, but it’s not for me. I’m not a purist and I like everything when someone else does it in certain situations, well almost everything. There’s only a few things that I like to do myself though.
What I’d like to be able to do is get an old fashioned selenium tone effect happening in photoshop. I’d like to try it at least. Is that possible?
Bjarte – Thanks for the tips.
I don’t know what “selenium” is, but if you mean color tones then “Gradient map” is often a good tool to play around with. Just be sure to fine-tune it with layer opacity and set the layer mode to Color.
selenium – old fashioned :o)
love that..
it was part of the standard process i applied along with printing heavy and a little bleaching back..
it would be easy enough to recreate a selenium toned shade using the colour adjust on a black n white file in RGB.. subtlety would be the key..
Remember that if your work looks like everyone else’s…
—————————-
No problem, just make it better, as you are probably living on the same planet and breathing the same air!
:-)))
PS: they are celebrating woodstock 40th in the GG park today. Jefferson Starship headlining….. Some freakin’ backyard shooting, I tell ya!!!! :-((((
This is from wiki since all I can remember about it myself is that selenium is a metal and you do it “officially” for archival reasons while in your heart, you do it because it’s so beautiful.
“Selenium toning is the most popular of the archival toning processes, converting metallic silver to silver selenide. In a diluted toning solution, selenium toning gives a red-brown tone, while a strong solution gives a purple-brown tone. The change in colour depends upon the chemical make-up of the photographic emulsion being toned. Chlorobromide papers change dramatically, whilst pure bromide papers change little. Fibre-based papers are more responsive to selenium toning.[2]
Selenium toning may not produce prints quite as stable as sepia or gold toning. However, its appearance is much more subdued than sepia [which is the reason i like it since I don’t care much for sepia] and it is cheaper than gold. Selenium toning also increases the tonal range available in the paper.
…
Recently, doubts have surfaced as to the effectiveness of selenium toner in ensuring print longevity.”
The last point is news to me. Interesting.
Bjarte, that must be it that I’ve missed when I’ve tried before now ie your tip about opacity. I’m going to try it now before I forget. Thanks.
David B, I hope you are not offended. There are too many pros with digital. It was such a long time ago that I put a roll of film in a camera. And even longer back when I messed around with toning. It seems old fashioned to me now.
I was composing or when you were posting. Hence I missed your tip, thanks.
nono – no offense at all..
just funny that techniques become so antiquated so quickly these days ..
i haven’t used selenium for a good while myself..
…as we…
…go…
…for the…
…GOLD….YES!!!
NUMBER 1,OOO! READ’EM AND WEEP, SMART GUY!!!
AKAKY IRL: You really are a moron sometimes, aren’t you?
AKAKY: Sorry, I just got carried away.
AKAKY IRL: You didn’t get carried far enough, if you ask me. You should’ve been carried a long way off and then left there.
AKAKY: I said I was sorry.
AKAKY IRL: You worry me sometimes, bubba.
AKAKY: I know. Me too.
You worry me sometimes, bubba.
:)))))))
me2
Akaky ate his hamster
It is getting late over here. How about some more noise from New Zealand?
Another one of my most favourite bands live perfoming in NYC: The Clean “Whatever I do is right”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfA-O_4HeeU&feature=related
…I always thought Akaky is a vegetarian???
Akaky is not a hamster
Noise from heaven… The Chills…
REIMAR; I love combining music and photography. I’m trying to keep a music theme going through the entire youth project.
Yes I have heard of Chris Knox etc. He’s been a stalwart of the “Dunedin sound” indie music scene forever (just about). He recently suffered a stroke (about 6 months ago) and only in his early 50’s I think. He also wrote newspaper music critiques and columns.
He was in Toy Love (and numerous other bands) before the The Tall Dwarfs; Toy love was probably his most commercially successful band. “Not Given Lightly” is his most well known song, a Kiwi icon! How did you get exposed to his music? Because it is certainly not mainstream?
A recent Kiwi band “Fat Freddys Drop” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCJg63SziL4
JIM: “So much peace and love here, I’m starting to have flashbacks to the summer of ‘69”
I watched a Joni Mitchell doco yesterday morning. She was supposed to perform at Woodstock with Crosby, Stills, Nash &Young but had a TV gig the next day. She was worried about not being able to get into and out of Woodstock in time for TV so decided not to go.
CSN&Y hired a chopper to get in and out with no hassles and experienced the entire spectacle. Joni watched it on TV and was devastated to miss it. However she wrote the classic song “Woodstock” while watching it. So if she had of gone we would have missed out on that song! She sang it on the TV gig the day after writing it. Her early work (especially the “Blue” album) is amazing.
I’m a big Joni Mitchell fan. She has reinvented her sound time after time instead of sticking with a formula.
I was 18 during the summer of love. Those were, indeed, the days. ;)
Ross,
sad to hear this bad news about Chris. He is a character for sure. His beat is usually fast and I guess it will be hard for him to slow down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS077O8MA6g
Many of the Kiwi bands played live in a local club called “The Forum” in Enger. In the late 80ies, early 90ies I saw many indie bands there. They were all excellent. Yes, not mainstream at all! It was a small place and after the gig the artists were hanging out at the bar having a beer or two. Even Nirvana played there before they became famous… Somewhere I have a picture of Chris, Alec and me sitting on their suitcases… They did a truly marvellous show.
Over the years I lost track of them, but your images reminded me of this wonderful music from NZ. Thanks for that!
Enjoy the Kiwi sound and keep documenting it!
Best
Reimar
Jim;
I was 6! But I can still vividly remember the images from Woodstock on our B&W TV. Only one channel in those days in NZ! I was second youngest in my family so naturally listened to what my older brother (10 years older than me) and sisters listened to.. Dylan, Stones, Bowie etc etc
I found a book of all Joni’s early lyrics in at a 2nd hand store a while back, it’s amazing…
And speaking of that time period; have you watched “Dear-America-Letters-Home-Vietnam”? It intersplices amateur super-8 home footage and news footage from Vietnam with music of the time. But most poignant are the narrated letters from servicemen/women. It really cuts to the bone…
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Ddvd&field-keywords=Dear-America-Letters-Home-Vietnam&x=18&y=18
Reimar; What I enjoy about the indie music scene is whether or not the band is good, mediocre or just plain bad, the music comes from the heart. It’s not something the Simon Cowell’s of the world have put together to target a certain demographic!
http://chrisknox.blogtown.co.nz/
Ross,
yes, straight from the heart, like burn! Pure love and joy!
Thank you for the link!
Good night from Europe!
Reimar
Here’s the latest on our friend Reimar…
http://patricialaydorsey.blogspot.com/2009/10/reimar-has-recovered.html
What a speedy recovery!
Patricia
Reimar
Delighted that you have your smile back.
GO REIMAR !!! LOVE YOUR HAPPPPPPPPPPPY SMILE !!!
Thank you Patricia …
Ah, the sixties
For some reason today, Country Joe and the Fish’s “I feel like I’m fixin to die rag” popped into my head. Morgan, a visitor from Lasqueti Is. and I sang it together.
C’mon all o’ you big strong men
Uncle Sam needs your help again
He’s got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So drop your books and pick up a gun,
We’re gonna have a whole lotta fun.
Chorus
And it’s one, two, three, what are we fightin’ for
don’t ask me I don’t give a damn,
next stop is Vietnam.
And it’s five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain’t no need to wonder why
Whoopee wer’e all gonna die.
C’mon mothers don’t hesitate,
Send ’em off before it’s too late.
C’mon fathers, throughout the land
Send yor boys off to Vietnam
Be the first ones on your block
To have your boy sent home in a box.
Chorus
etc
Some things never change.
joni mitchell with pat metheny – shadows and light – is just great.
the 60’s are over-rated.. the ‘second summer of love’ in ’91 was much better as we had the experience of your ‘dry’ run to build on :o)
aciiid.
d
Universal Soldier- Donovan
reimar.. the difference between the before and after snap is shocking..
brilliant that you’re well.. and three cheers for grandma techno – one in a million.
d
AndreaC
Sorry, i was up in the mountains all day and just came in and caught your posts to me earlier in the day. I clciked on your name and saw two landscapes. The first with a river was very beautiful so if you used partial desat on that photo it was all for the better. I thought Bjarte gave exceptionally good advice. Do what the subject calls for. Not because it´s PS technique du jour but because the photo benefits from its use. Exactly as he said, defer to the lighting conditions that existed and play that up. But i really did like your landscape so much and thought it very credible. You enhanced the mood that surely existed or that you perceived through the lens and the effect is really nice!
When i am shooting B&W and I am sure everyone does the same thing..i look for textures and light patterns that would be distracting in color but are enhanced by the use of b&w. But other subjects would be completely drained of life and interest without the use of color. And partially desaturated photos would seem to be a cross between the two, i am guessing. A lot of texture, a little color interest. I play with partial desaturation in my digital work but never do anything seriously with it. I just enjoy doodling in the raw editor. My serious work is in film and i don´t really mess with effects of any kind. If i shoot slide film i am forced to cross-process because there´s no more slide processing in Costa Rica. i really like cross-processing because it´s just different enough and i can tone down the extreme effects if i want in PS so it doesn´t come off as gimmicky. The only playing around i do with film photos is sometimes in the scanning software but with those i deliberately shoot in lighting conditions that will respond well to that scanning technique. And even with those, i am not sure that in a few years i won´t look at them and see them as completely stupid.
Happy experimenting, Andrea!
best
Kat
db
1991… screamadelica, blue lines, nevermind, low end theory, gish, blood sugar sex magic…ahhh what a great year for music : )))
2nd summer of love… 1986 ; )
come to think of it, they were calling every summer the summer of love back then : ))))))
Patricia,
Nice to see Reimar all better. I bet you were an important part of the cure. That’s how it seems from this end anyway.
Reimar,
You look great. I looked at Patricia’s earlier picture of you and wondered, if it wasn’t too painful for you, that picture could become a favourite for you because of the quirky expression – which I like. But maybe even more so because it will remind you of your conversations with Patricia during this time. I don’t know. Of course I am too far away to know what any of it means to you. I am projecting.
You can’t say 1991 without mentioning Loveless. Nononono….
Bjarte
of course of course…
and seeing as you’ve mentioned Loveless, i gotta show ya this : )))
1990 – Tremelo EP
http://samharris.phanfare.com/3896105#imageID=77342054
Sam, I love your pictures.
Cool! Who is the girl with the closed eyes? I like the colors on the back cover. The rest of the design is messed up though. The text looks like it’s been squeezed. And it even says “compact disc maxi-single” at the front. Cheesy.
Looks like they’ve used different photographers on each release. Was it hard to get the job?
REIMAR,
I don’t know BUT for me …you were and you are always looking like a true BURNIAN…
that means that all BURNIANS …wherever you are in the Universe …
you look LOVELY…!!!
Mate, it’s the spirit …yes, the true BURNIAN spirit that gives to our souls the
BURNing glow …hmmm… WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S our Patricia …thanks for the link !!! is my book ready???
LOVE
David B,
yes, Patricia is one in a million indeed! Absolutely unique!
Patricia,
thank you for this picture of me!
Andrea C, Haik, Gordon,
so glad I have my smile back!
The progress during the last month was steady, but I hardly noticed it because I looked in the mirror several times a day to do some facial exercise. So it was good to have the image to compare before and after.
The picture will always remind me of these conversations for sure!
Every bit of progress that I noticed was a joy and Patricia noticed it much more than me. At first the wrinkles and the eyebrows, then the mouth and so on. Today I am still not at 100 %, but I guess nobody will see it and I don’t feel or notice any restriction. Since a few days I can sleep without eye protection at night and my eye feels like back to normal. That is the biggest relief because I depend so much on my vision.
Talking to Patricia was a huge help and she is so much fun! We talked about my progress, but luckily we had lots of other things to talk about, which didn’t concern handicaps. We talked a lot about photography.
Imants, who had Bell’s palsy as well, put it in some very apt words “it played havoc on the self-esteem”.
Luckily this didn’t happen to me, but I am sure this could have easily happened and then you are on a fast road of depression and who knows what. Talking to Patricia kept my good spirit up and it gave me confidence. To have some good people behind you, who support you, is always the key for any kind of success in life. I am very thankful for that.
Now it is time to get some work done and of course take some pictures!
Everybody, have a nice day!
Reimar
Street fighter KATIE,
you were UP in the mountains !!!
You sound refreshing like the ANDREAC’s river water…hmmmm…
Play the music BURNIANS I want to dance like Zorba the Greek today…
Play the music …
P.S Did I say how much I LOVE you all ???
REIMAR,
What a timing …1030 posts and it feels like we just started…I mean the Zorba dance…
hihihi…
AKAKIE… come over…budda needs you
ROSSY,
you are so right…”the music comes from the heart”
Pay attention BURNIANS…
whatever you do…has to come from the heart !!!
AndreaC – ta!
Bjarte…
that’s a funny story…
after several meetings with kevin shields talking about what he didn’t want and what he sort of kinda was after, we arrived at some sort of direction. one thing he was certain about was that he wanted a girl on the cover, to follow the tradition of their previous covers. So i booked a studio and a model for the shoot. It was just a few days before christmas and only my second or third job and the girl didn’t show up… (we got a call from her dad saying she was ill…) i was thinking i was totally fucked…
so with no other option and the band sitting on the couch in a cloud of smoke, i turned to the make-up artist, Kim (Hunt – i think) and asked her if she’d like to be on a record cover… she was cool about it to my relief and saved the day and my arse… anyway she new we were gonna distort everything because i’d set up a wall of stretched cling-film to shoot through…
was it hard to get the job? – yes and no.
yes – i spent a few years lugging a portfolio around london getting nowhere, feeling like giving up…
no – eventually i was in the right place at right time…
cheers
sam
panos how your trip?
marcin..:) so far so… hmmm gay…
laughing…
dont even ask… but it started getting little better…
jet lag though still rules…
Sam
Thanks for sharing this story.
But you actually spent a few years where you only got two or three jobs? Sounds like you had a lot of patience, good thing you didn’t give up. Did you work on personal projects at that time?
Mondays…. I hate Mondays… but week-end was good… I took my first day off last Friday to get my tentative new “essay” started (have to do something here in Belgium and get started!!!)… Kind of weird every time you start something new but I had a good time and, while still very early, I can see how this could turn out to be interesting… I mentioned before that I will be trying to get “closer” to some kids from the Brussels suburbs that are fanatic skateboarders… I know absolutely nothing about skateboard and do not know anyone practicing but just happened to pass by a skateboard ring or bowl and I felt a real interesting environment, sort of a culture in itself with the figures, the “dress code”, the grafittis…I spend there a couple of hours Friday just around lunch time to see if anyone was there, if I could break the ice and make contact with some of these kids. I followed a couple of them who seemed to be entering into an old train station and discovered a whole amazing room underground full of colors, paintings and whole bunch of kids inside “smoking” what I would describe as not cigarettes :):):) all this just before naturally heading back to school… focus might be a problem in the afternoon for these guys…. anyway as a complete stranger in the middle of this, was not so easy to photographs but this place has real potential so will try to come back there…. 2 days later i.e yesterday, I came back and was able to talk with couple of skateboarders…could not go to this underground place that was locked (station closed) but it is a question of time…. need more vacations days now to do proper progress but I can see a way in now… will do the usual “DAH approach” of bringing back some photographs so that they can see what I do and get confortable…I sense it will be sensitive as some do drugs etc but will go there slowly… will see where this goes…. It is the great thing about not having a clue initially where your story will go… just seems like this could be interesting and visually a lot to play with…. will see….hopefully, it will take off as an essay… after maybe a couple more visits, I will try to share a link…. anyway, thought I wuld share what I am up to…. will keep you posted. Gosh, a full week to go before next week-end!!!!!!
Cheers,
Eric
PAT,
I tried to skype you…Hope you got my message so that we can connect one of the coming days.
Cheers,
Eric
Bjarte…
no. you misunderstood me.
when i started out and had managed to get a portfolio together, i spent a couple of years (well, about 18 months) trying to get my first job. Visiting design companies and record companies, as many as i could find…
Once i finally got my first job (Defenition of Sound cover) others followed over the next months (including My Bloody Valentine) and the ball was rolling…
Personal projects? well, not projects, I just thought in individual images, lots of ideas, experimentation
and many many hours in my budget bedroom/darkroom.
Where are you our PATRICIA,
ERIC is trying to skype you…
Where are you BURNIANS…KATIE,MyGRACIE,DAVIDB,PANOS,HAIK, THODORIS,BOBB,ROSSY…etc,etc…
I can’t sleep…hmmm BUT after this quote…
“If you can’t sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there worrying. It’s the worry that gets you, not the lack of sleep.”
Dale Carnegie quotes (American lecturer, author, 1888-1955)
I am going for a midnight walk…
P.S I will be back !!!
SAM HARRIS,
an Englishman in Western Australia ???
VIVA !!!
Civi!
so sorry you´re sleepless in Greece..pobrecito! we need a Burn lullaby to get you over the midnight hump. Alas it would consist entirely of computer speak, 1´s and 0´s..so, ok, here goes…m-m-m-m-m..*tuning up*
11111000010010000000000001000000001111101010101010100000000000000000000000001111111111111111111111111111111
10101010101010101 (that part´s the chorus¨)
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
(repeat chorus)
000
111
0
1
(shhh…asleep yet?)
*tiptoes out*
katie
ERIC
I got your Skype message but didn’t know how to respond. I’m great at Skyping video-style but have yet to figure out the written message thingy. Yes, I look forward to our connecting again. Miss you! BTW I love the sound of your new essay explorations. It sounds very YOU!
CIVI
You’re a sweetie. I’ve been shooting shooting shooting so am not spending much time on the computer. Am in the midst of taking autumn shots for my Blue Mirror project, and on Saturday started a new personal essay on my dearest friends, Scott and Phil. They are a gay couple — now married — who have been together for at least 20 years. We’ve been like family for 17 of those years. I want to do an essay on their lives together much as I did the self portrait series on myself. They live in San Diego but were in Detroit for a family wedding so it was the opportunity I needed to get thinngs going. We spent today with Phil’s aunts in Windsor, Ontario and then hung out at a park by the river. I’m hoping some of the pics I took will be keepers. I’ll be going to visit them for 2-3 weeks at their home in San Diego in March. That’s when I plan on doing the bulk of my work.
Don’t have a clue what’s happening with Falling Into Place. The Blurb book is in the book editor’s hands in NYC and I’m waiting to hear from her. We shall see what we shall see.
love to you & to all Burnians
Patricia
Patricia; Halloween on Saturday… A great time for your mirror project I think! :-)
……..fingers crossed Patricia ( book regarding )………
2am in Civi’s country…just woke up…
sleepy day, yet another sleepless night…….
Antoooooooooon im out of Duvel..;)
…. nice………..
started feeling sleepy again…
(I thank god for inventing porn….thank u lord..:))))))))))))
PANOS
you might have to be in my next flick….
serious…
xox
Wendy
are you thinking of a Greek tragedy or comedy ;))
k/
click on
conversesrouges.com
plz..
lullaby and good nite
go to sleep my civilian
close your eyes take a rest &
stop munching creme bavarians
Tragicomedy !!!
Provocateurs !
mornin all..
cremed bavarians sound tastier than a scotch egg.
4th day without rain .. astonishing.. dull, yes.. and astonishing.
Goodmorning BURNIANS,
I wish I can have some cremed bavarians with scrotched eggs BUT i have only feta cheese and tomato
available…
I wish I can have some cake, 2000 calories BUT it’s behind the glass bakery
…leftovers from the Lucie Award …hmmm…
I AM THE HAPPIEST CIVILIAN cause I have ALL of you … my BURNED little cupcakes !!!
P.S Our PATRICIA…your book will fall into the right Place, we count on you…DAVIDB kiss our Tor Capa.
KATIE your computer Lullaby along with the creme bavarians from MyGracie made me speechless or should I say sleepless …LOVEEEEEE from the Greekland… where are you PANOS ???
DAVIDB,
4th day with rain…astonishing…dull,yes…and astonishing
im right here ( in grecolandia ),
idiot….!!!
jeesus
PANOS,
did you get lost in the BURN aisles …hihihi…it seems that you are everywhere !!!
BURNIANS …scream all together …
I AM PHOTOGRAPHER !!! …
P.S hihihi…
malaka…………
David Bowen -4 days without rain? ….try 6 months , we’re in the midddle of Mango Season here and all the tell tale signs of the big wet are there.
Some seriously good work by a 23 year-old Belgian woman. Bieke Depoorter just won the Magnum Expression Award:
http://expression.magnumphotos.com/expression_award/index.php?p=finalists
The full series is on her website: http://www.biekedepoorter.be/
I just don’t get why Depoorter won anything for these photos. It seems to be a formula these days. You take a bunch of people (anywhere in the world) that all look like they have had frontal lobotomies and shoot a lot of either very sterile or very grainy photos of them (or both), and then name it some kind of photography that it really isn’t. And they give people awards for this stuff.
What’s wrong with sharp, clear photos of living people?
chocolate and espresso and editing photos!
Ha! Jim, well, yes. . . Bieke alternates between maxed out digital noise and bounced flash. However, I think it is quite well done and the noise almost looks like film grain. Certainly the concept of jumping off the Trans-Siberian railroad and showing up at random peoples’ homes and trying to spend the night with them is interesting and adventurous! I think she made some pretty intimate work given she was just throwing herslef into these peoples’ lives for a such a short period. Obviously the sort of people you find along the route in inner Russia are not Moscow’s nouveau riche. I have to say I am impressed with the work and to think Bieke only just turned 23. There is much more to come.
Digital noise has a nastier kick than film grain
……….home stays are some what the norm in the Eastern block countries, access can be pretty easy depending on how one wants to play the game, or in some cases pay the game.
There sure is a magnum photographic style creeping around……….
Imants:
and it was judged of course by Magnum photogs including Jonas Bendiksen of ‘Satellites’ fame. But I think Bieke’s work is quite good, personally. It follows a bit of a different path than recent work I have seen from the region. Any contest obviously reflects the tastes of the particular judges and the judges here were top notch.
There sure is a magnum photographic style creeping around………. big time not just here or at magnum. saturated large areas of colour, emphasis on crefull scrolling placement of object > space > person> space etc.
Davin, I liked that work too. I didn’t get very far on your link to her site though. I must be doing something wrong. I also liked Jorg Bruggman’s entry about tourists in India. I wouldn’t mind seeing that again. If I remember correctly, I found it funny. It was a few days ago I looked at it. I still haven’t got through the whole lot but there were a few good things in the pile.
Looking through those is tiring. I can’t imagine how awful/hard it must be to have to look through hundreds of essays a day or even as many as 30, ie for Burn.
BURNIANS…
We are all one big enormous Universal worldwide FAMILIA …What a familia…
We are THE BURN FAMILIA !!!
I am cooking spinach pie and patsa ( cows feet and stomach soup)
Come over BURNIANS …
P.S We are sending good energy around the Universe and to the MR.HARVEY’S FAMILY !!!
Flickr creeps in slowly but steady…
Flickr destroys photography… by giving it away for free… creating some sort of ..
oh man , i dont even wanna say it..
flickr is the EPITOMY OF DESPERATION…
sad day today for Burn…
people please resist…
resist
resist…
otherwise we will all end up in that huge massive endless pit of giving away everything for free…
Kathleen, plz do NOT renew your account there…
even if most photogs out there have a great job…even if most photogs in flickr are just amateurs ..
even if flickr looks just “innocent”…
people, i warn you…
dont buy that shit..
IMANTS got that bullshit immediately…
mediocrity…but thats not the main danger and disaster that mass flickrmania brought…
its mainly that it devalued the photogs work to the lowest level..
if your photo was worth one dollar, flickrmania made it sure it now values one cent…..
i refuse to even let a comment on the flickr page here in Burn…
but..
this is what makes DAH GREAT… this is why BURN is the best…
because it keeps the door open to all viruses and parasites..
flickr=mass photography..
flickr=never get paid
flickr=sell for nothing
flickr=cheap WHORE…
THANK U BURN…
pure democracy…
Burn feels just like me today…
self destructive and suicidal…..
( but dont worry, there’s always tomorrow…all we have to do is listen to music and …wait…:(
even if most photogs out there have a great job…
( a great DAY job, i meant….)
I’m gonna have to side with Jim on this one. I don’t see a single moment that draws one in.
Hey Panos
I’m with you on some points but not others.
I don’t necessarily equate Fuckr with mediocrity as there is some very good work but it does
represent a mindset that sort of devalues work by its sheer mass.
Rafal’s edit does reflect some of his personality (at least what little I assume based on images
and postings,here) but the group, as a whole, has no feeling to me.
He could probably go back in and reselect a thousand times and would come back with a similar,
interesting, but unfeeling set of images.
That a crowd-sourced group of images finds its way to Burn kinda disappoints me.
Marc yes, i agree…
nothing to do with rafal…he is a cool kid with good intentions i hope…
its just Fuckr that i can so clearly see through…
photography is being devalued enough these days..
every uncle has a 5D now and every shady publication is not giving
assignments anymore, they dont buy from getty or corbis…
they get everything from Flickr, Fuckr, whatever for free..
i have personal experience..
i photographed the rapper Busta Rhymes once for free…
i did the mistake to post it on Flickr 5 years ago…
ok , since then, every time Busta gets arrested i get the same emails over and over and
over through ass wipes that found my photos in flickr asking me to give them
my photos for free…!!1????????
my pay??????????? i get to keep the copyrights…..
so i photograph for free, they profit and i get to keep my day job…
people resist…
i know most folks they suck the devils dick to be published…
selfish little desperate souls…
killing photography…
resist..
stay away from flickr…
create your own thing if u can…
( again, all that have nothing to do with rafal’s curator new job.. he is not flickr..
i have flickr friends.. my great friend Jared i met through flickr… i thing he might have an opinion about all that…mass production fuckr disaster..)
That a crowd-sourced group of images finds its way to Burn kinda disappoints me.
yep…
sad day today….
flickr takes over….:(
flickr is great.
ordinary, derivative, formulaic and bland photography exists in such a huge quantity that the line between great and poor has become much more defined.. better understood by the general public.
it’s the digital revolution, and the huge number of people trying to sell or give away photography without any understanding of how the business works that is destroying photography as a living..
flickr is just an online storage resource with a token link of representation through getty..
i understand where it could stand for the mcdonalds of photography.. poor quality, cheap.. but you know.. we’re all sinners who’ve eaten a hamburger and dipped into flickrs bowls..
that’s okay – we just have to educate and make sure that more and more people understand the monetary value of photography.. because people are not going to cut back on their photography habit and flickr is going to do nothing but grow.
really though – flickr has not yet made me feel threatened.. most of it’s content is poor.. that which is ‘good’ is cliche and mimic, and that which is ‘great’ stands out in it’s utter rarity.
these days more than ever, if just anyone ‘could’ take a photo, the price it commands is low, (if it even gets passed over the marketing desk to the photographer in the first place).
if it’s a specialist subject there will always be a market.. personal an idiosyncratic will stand out.
cabbage is cheap and truffles are not.. and flickr has a lot of cabbages.
i think that there are a couple of photos in rafals presentation which, under another banner, would gain much more widespread popularity here.. maby as a single..
i think it’s daft to write anything off simply because of the storage devise used to present it..
and of course burn HAS to feature flickr.. burn is a contemporary magazine for education and discussion..
like it or not, (and i know some don’t), rafal has at least been brave enough to ‘out’ himself as a user, and contribute something which serves to benefit a number of photographers equally..
even if, like flickr itself, the end result is somewhat confusing in quantity and vastly disparate in quality.
d
Pete,
i here u man.. i hear u…
sorry for my rant…
its just that IMANTS nailed it and i couldnt help it…
ok , i hope im done..:(
So, is this all about good photography, or being paid? How many on-line sites are paying these days?
So, everyone can afford an awesome camera these days, everyone is taking pictures, we are awash in images, this is a bad thing?
Yes, times were easier when people used to hire me because I carried a big camera worth thousands of dollars, I knew how to twiddle all them little levers and dials, and my pictures always “turned out”. Now, millions of people carry i-phones and and snap pictures daily.
Today a $500 dslr set on “P” will make spectacular images. Image making has become democratized. You have no idea how many of my customers are photo-shop savy. Those people have a greater appreciation for what I do, and are still more than willing to hand over their credit cards
The world has changed. Welcome to the 21st century. I’m excited by what is happening to photograhy, including sites like flickr.
panos mate – being cheeky about it, you can always delete your account http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerspacecowpanos/
:o)
Panos:
u r a hypocrite….
BURN IS CROWD SOURCED, PERIOD…and guess what, you gave your pictures away fOR FREE…at Burn….at Austin SLPS…at Redconverse…etc etc etc….and it is NOT a sad day for Burn….it is a different matter all together….
1) BURN came from David’s readers, david’s students, david’s friends, david’s colleagues…and yes Rafal was on flickr and met david, spoke with david and wrote/communicated with David LONG LONG before you even stepped into his life….that one of the photographers/writers/reader’s here came up with an idea and offered it to David and David published it is NOT A SAD DAY…what is a sad day is your continual double-dealing bullshit….
2) i didnt like all the pictures and yes, i wouldn’t necessary have made the edit (we all would do something different) but having created/curated/edited a year long international photo project for photographers (that has included some of the people here, like John vink), i can tell you how damn hard it is, how much criticism (personal and professional) you get from all the negative mentalities….and you, who contintually talk about INTEGRITY, are the first one here to betray, public and privately….
3) Burn is about change….i dont like everything here, shit, i dont even like all the work, but one thing that goes undenied is that Burn continues to attempt to offer work to viewers, offer venues for photographers (including you) who did not have the same venues…
it’s brilliant how narrow people’s minds are when they imagine themselves to be open….
Pete: i didnt….i wrote what i wrote….my favorite work on Burn, not by a long shot, some strong images (yes), some weak ones, yes of course….
y’all talk talk talk about the mediocrity of the work, how about the mediocrity of the viewer’s understanding of this;
WHY MIGHT DAVID HAVE CHOSEN TO RUN THIS???….
think y’all
cheap shots and it sounds like a forest of folks who’ve got nothing better than to chirp….
im no fan of flickr (on the issue of photo-useage/copyright/bitchfests) either, but if y’all cant see the relationship between Abrazada and Roadtrip/Burn, y’all need to re-think the last 3 years….
anyone remember David’s assignments and what that has produced???….BEFORE BURN??…
remember Island (kyung-hee)…Park Slope….Rafal’s FamilyTies….Lances’ Rodeo……and my own book, the middle part, came from something david assigned at roadtrips…
Crowd Sourcing….
pETE; maybe i should have had a joint….
pathetic, the mentality that creeps in here
b
“and of course burn HAS to feature flickr..”
No, it doesn’t HAVE to. Burn chose to feature Flickr.
Flickr has evolved to be more than simply a storage medium. It is almost a movement
and is now being opportunistically harvested by Getty.
By DAHs own admission he has years worth of submissions ready to go by individuals who could potentially realize valuable opportunities by being published here.
For non-working Flickr contributors publication here is nothing more than a badge.
That quality images are available at Flickr is not in question.
david…
if u would bother to read my comments u would see that i got fucked by flickr,
read my busta rhymes story above… through my account they find it..
but ok.. u r a great detective either way…:(
and DB ( cheeky also )..
i wish i could remember how to delete my account…
:))))
@ Panos
I don’t really see how you got fucked by Flickr.
When you put photos on Flickr it doesn’t automatically wipe the part of your brain that lets you say “no” to requests for free images (although Flickr does happen to attract a lot of people who say “yes”).
I’ve had my own web site for 6 years and received loads of request for the use images on my web site — the vast majority of which turned out turned out to be from people trying to get something for nothing or virtually nothing. In those cases, I said “no”, of course.
The only time someone has offered me an amount that seemed reasonable enough to say “yes” happened to be via Flickr. I was contacted, agreed a price, and evil Flickr never got a penny…
i did read it panos..
anyway.. onward..
d
“i photographed the rapper Busta Rhymes once for free…
i did the mistake to post it on Flickr 5 years ago…
ok , since then, every time Busta gets arrested i get the same emails over and over and
over through ass wipes that found my photos in flickr asking me to give them
my photos for free”
?!
done.. off for the night..
enjoy y’all..
d
KATHLEEN F
You mentioned the possibility of changing the rule to two per essay – I’ve thought for a while maybe one-per-essay till the next essay goes up, THEN free for all for debates – the less involved people having moved on. Too complicated?
ERIC E
Entirely random observation on skateboarding in Brussels: I visited a few weeks ago to see the Bruegels in the Musees then pilgrimaged down to Notre Dame de la Chapelle to see his memorial plaque there. I saw there was a busy, grafitti-covered skate park just across the road from the church, and thought how much old Pieter would have approved of that scene…
“For non-working Flickr contributors publication here is nothing more than a badge.”
i don’t get this.. ?
many of the people featured here are not working photographers.. many see it as a badge.. and if i bothered to look back i reckon some of the essays even link to peoples flickr sites..
storm in a teacup..
un
able
to
bother
now
d
one more thing..
if you’re interested in phtoography – you have probably used flickr..
it MEANS NOTHING about your sincerity towards your photography.. it is just a storage devise..
a movement in photography? maybe so – BRING IT ON.. i am a phtoographer interested in the evolution and development of the medium.. which is only 150 years old.. and has vastly changed in the past 10 years.. exciting.. exciting..
bit of snobbery.. bit of job insecurity.. bit of bull.. all going on here..
again though – flickr and the general publics use of photography is here to stay.. and at the same time so is the vastly improved method for getting your work seen..
a site magazine which can show parr and people in a flickr group has the whole base of contemporary photography covered, in terms of education.. and that’s why i think burn had to feature flickr at some point to remain relevant.
if we shoot better pictures, whatever we use to show them will seem meaningless in the long run..
d
Panos
Flickr is representative of the world of photography. Everyone is allowed to post whatever the hell they want. It´s just like public streets. Among the millions who plod along the sidewalks on their way to who knows where, only one in every so many is supremely talented, supremely capable, supremely intelligent. Should only these people be allowed to walk the sidewalks in the effort to keep our cities free of mediocrity? Well, well, fuc**ng well, Panos..so now we know who/what you are. As much a snob as Stieglitz when he sniffed disdainfully that every one and his brother was now a photographer just because they could get an image onto a light sensitive plate. But, as he also so reluctantly agreed, surely it must be just dumb luck repeating itself over and over that some of those peasants seemed to produce more than their fair share of keepers.
I once said i´d die before i ever joined flickr. Then i joined. And i quickly found some real talent. I also found the know-it-all´s ruling their flickr feifdoms like total despots. haha..but there´s a lot of humble talent creating work in total obscurity at Flickr. Never get comments, rarely get views but they keep pumping the work out. They don´t come onto Burn Magazine, the Lucie award winner posting links to their impossibly large, unedited rummage sale slideshows to whoever will give a click. I am directing that comment at you, Panos.
What a snob..i mean, WHAT a snob! So what, you posted a photo that keeps getting you unwanted attention..are you bragging or complaining? Take your photo, put it back on your hard drive where no one will see it and where no one will ask you to give it to them for free. You shot all those people in little Salvador and posted them on the web. Did you give them anything, even so much as a thank you, for the priviledge of using their face?
Don´t begrudge these strangers for finding themselves improbably published at Burn Magazine when all they expected was to contribute their idea of a family photograph to a Flickr Family group. Hurrah for them! Hurrah for Rafal for having a good eye and appreciating the work of these people and bringing it here so we can appreciate it. I frankly get really tired of essays about poor people, boxers, human suffering. I think DAH´s decision to post Rafal´s collection was a brave one, an exciting one and a mst generous one. I hope to see more collections like this soon!
Panos, guy i love ya, but to all here equating Flickr with mediocrity, i say the same thing. Walk yourself over there and find a photo that you like. Click on some of the people who left comments on that photo and you´ll find more work that you like. Pretty soon you´ll have your work cut out for you just trying to keep up with it all. Welcome to your corner of the Flickr world. Like Eminem says (sort of), Flickr, it is whatever it is you say it is.
kathleen
Mark W
Hey, i like that idea a lot! It´s a good balance between the total chaos of open comments and the silencing effect of only one comment. The published photographer can comment all he likes and we have to button our lips. I noted with some amusement under the photo, The Saboteur, the person who came up with the one comment rule posted THREE comments. When DAH comes back, please suggest it to him or if you aren´t around, with your permission, i will! It would be great to have the essay turn into an open forum at some point and only those most interested would contribute.
best
Kathleen
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/17/fuck-405-south-mexicoooooo/#comments
laughing…
plz post there… its free….
“…Oh, and Bob… Exactly how much dope do you smoke? (grinning)…”
( Pete,i wish i have wrote that first…laughing..i can smell the canadian chronic from 2000 miles away..)
;0
I’ve mentioned Bert Hardy before so thought I’d post this.
http://www.photohistories.com/Photo-Histories/50/the-life-and-times-of-albert-hardy-1913-1995?pg=all
Cheers
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJLO8x-TJ5I/AAAAAAAAAbM/kE2uOOwlxAI/s1600-h/01520032.jpg
kathleen.. ON THE MONEY
you made me laugh for the first time since i read rafal lableing jims comment a ‘brain fart..’.. like, really chucking right now about it again..
brain fart..
haha..
going to steal that one.
d
This is OUR BURN FAMILY** !!!
WIKIPEDIA: **Family denotes a group of people or animals… affiliated by a consanguinity, affinity or co-residence. Although the concept of consanguinity originally referred to relations by “blood,” anthropologists[who?] have argued that one must understand the idea of “blood” metaphorically, and that many societies understand ‘family’ through other concepts rather than through genetic distance…
One of the primary functions of the family is to pee…
FLICKER ***
WIKIPEDIA: **The Northern Flicker (Colaptes auratus) is a medium-sized member of the woodpecker family…This bird’s call is a sustained laugh, ki ki ki ki…Like many woodpeckers, its flight is undulating. The repeated cycle of a quick succession of flaps followed by a pause creates an effect comparable to a rollercoaster.
BURN is BURNing again …WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
“One of the primary functions of the family is to pee…”
that’s the third genuine belly chuckle .. in a row.. i’m still laughing about brain farts for goodness sake..
sorry ross…
ross posted this..
http://www.photohistories.com/Photo-Histories/50/the-life-and-times-of-albert-hardy-1913-1995?pg=all
it’s interesting..
made me think that i wish the picture post was still about..
then i remember looking at some astonishing photos from inside gaza last winter..
on flickr..
they were passed all around the world..
and i missed the picture post a little less.
right.. going to take my dinosaur, (it’s a slugosaurus) for a ride around the block and make a cup of tea..
d
It seems that all you Photographers have very flexible middle fingers :)))
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL…
Can I go to sleep now or you will BURN the roof …???:)))
One thing is for sure, the photographs are far more interesting than the comments.
Yep flick is about mediocrity……….. the inability to edit……….. open slather……….. one of Getty’s born again children …………. snob all you want……….. yes parade your child on the net, but how dare someone else do it ………. they are evil….I don’t want my child on the http://www……... yes we all can do it just post post post we are all looking…… ok we aren’t really looking as we are too busy posting posting……..to edit what we have produced why it is all good…….. flickr the overfed bloated giant with nowhere to go but roll in it’s fat consumed…………we are all photographers now…….Eminem said so so it is true true true…….everything we do is to be posted for others to consume ………. all is good all is better bleat bleat post post post post post ………. Hey my picture is on the cover of Time and I got thirty bucks…..ripped off man I got nothing they pulled it from that new site where I checked the little box………………… and so we post another image on flickr
DAVIDB ,
What did I miss??? I am the one with the farting issue…silents included…
P.S a cup of ouzo for me !!!
I think we should all celebrate mediocrity since it is so popular.
As for Burn publishing flickr stuff, I think it’s a shame. David says he has a huge backlog of stuff to publish here. Yet, he goes to flickr. Instead of folks who took the time and had the interest to submit their own work. A little puzzling.
rafals response to jims comment on current essay..
still chuckling..
d
david B
Rafal said that? LMAO..gotta go back and check that out..hahahaha..what is sooo funny is how Jim always gets in the first comment..i can see him there like Jack Nicholson in ¨About Schmidt¨, his desk bare, just the clock on the wall behind him ticking away the hours as he sits thumping his fingers against the table, his placid, expressionless face patiently awaiting the appointed hour…..tick…tock…tick…tock…and then it happens, like the sun rising above the horizon line, a new essay appears and bam, he springs into action, machete gleaming in that first bit of tremulous light. He takes a mighty slash and obliterates the work and whatever pride the photographer had in being published, leaving a permament stain on the work, the first comment, the first thrust, like a hit and run. And then, just like that, his party´s over. He´s spent. That´s all he had in him. Over and out.
best
kathleen
Flickr=Wal Mart
;)
You are all so good…BURNIANS…it takes me hours to go through your posts …
BUT …I LOVE YOU all !!! KATIE keep the house BURNing …I am gonna go and rest my old farting brain …HIhihi
P.S I am gonna explode …cow’s feet soup BURNing in my belly !!!
GOODNIGHT and keep it UP …
ah kathleen.. chuckling away here..
love your visual imagination.. pictured that..
jim.. i think rafals selection does reflect the flickr blandness in part.. i kind of like the freshness and fuckitallness of letting rafal dip into it..
after all – just because someone has submitted themselves to burn, does not mean it carries more weight or less mediocrity.. i’m sure anton and david wade through a fair chunk of it.
“…flickr the overfed bloated giant with nowhere to go but roll in it’s fat consumed…………we are all photographers now……”
Imants, exactly…
All, smile… u r on flickr now…:(
i hope Martin Parr’s next essay will be about flickr=Wal Mart…
( and then i have my little nephew here quitting every other week , one time in english ,next time in raussian, tomorrow maybe in japanese…calling me a hypocrite..)
go figure…
– hear hear davidb, hear hear…
ALL…
all perceived “mediocricies” aside, i’m seriously contemplating opening a flickr account. Flickr is, in my opinion, an excellent tool to get my images out there, alongside the other tools that i use.
my only nagging doubt is potential copyright issues when signing up for a flickr account… i’ve read rants about this about a year ago, should i be worried having my images there or not?
I just want to be absolutely sure that my images remain my own and that i am not giving up any copyright, ownership or usage or anything like that… and i am by no means a legal expert so reading their small print didn’t help :-/
i want to ba able to build up my archive, and next to photoshelter and another half dozen tools that i use to get my stuff out there, i would also like to use Flickr.
anyone offer any perspective on this?
thanks… and what not to love :-)
a
Imants
whether or not i agree, that was a great batch of words you you just wrote..and yes, that is the one huge problem with flickr, it´s often unedited work and yes, that is the messy ick job that amateurs don´t do for the main part. However, on Flckr you have sets and collections. They´re there for a reason. So you can edit your work if you are so inclined. Then you submit photos to groups that often have a submission limits. Also, the owner of the group (or whatever that person is called) retains the right to curate the submissions. So, if you want to be serious about editing, you can be. If you want to just submit 500 pics of your kids´birthday party you can do that too. And hey, what does it matter if it´s Eminem or Tolstoy who authors a quotable? Are you a snob too, Imants? Don´t answer that, it was a rhetorical question.
David B
¨after all – just because someone has submitted themselves to burn, does not mean it carries more weight or less mediocrity¨
YESyesYES!!
Civilian
Your wiki post was one of the funniest things i have read in a LONG time! You really are good in the morning, aren´t you? heh!!! kikikiki!
Anto plenty of room on flick http://etrouko.com.au/art/im.jpg
imants! hehe good one :-)
plenty of room on flick http://etrouko.com.au/art/im.jpg
laughing
laughing
laughing
flickr=Sardines box
hahah
kikikiki
hihihi
u guys are funny… now let me get back to what i was doing…
(i promise never to go to burnmagazine.org during work. i promise never to go to burnmagazine.org during work.i promise never to go to burnmagazine.org during work.i promise never to go to burnmagazine.org during work.i promise never to go to burnmagazine.org during work. i promise..)
anton
you can exert your copyright and limited license on flickr..
as always on the net, people can come from anywhere and try to use your photos.. downloads.. screen grabs.. copyright may not be respected..
you can bang your weblink and name all over the photo, but the photo will not look as good.
or you can use tin eye to find unlawful uses on the web.. but tin eye is limited in scope.
i think – as with wnywhere online – you take your chances..
and, of course, when time want to pay you 30 USD for a photo of a jar of pennies, you can decide for yourself if it is worth more. :o)
d
ANTON,
Where have you been !!! Is your book ready ???
kiss the Japan family from me !!!
DAVIDB,
I got it …0)
KATIE,
You are such a visual inspiration …kikiki…LOVE U BURN LADY !!!
PANOS,
it’s almost midnight …where are you mate ??? I am out of ouzo :(((
JIM,
you are a BURNIAN…and as a family we know what we can do …kiki
and as my AUSSIE IMANTS wrote once…
I better take my farts and go to sleep…my etrouko …kikiki
ANTIOS from your dyslexic Civilian :)))
AIIIIII My Gracie…
thanks for the sweets…
I am gonna zzzzzz now
P,S KATIEEEEEEEEEEEEE …Leontion is here …kikikikiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
civi..
no ouzo here…
but im getting plenty high on cheap canadian skunk…sent through burn from my beloved nephew..
:)))
civilian! i leave next week to live a month underground in kabukicho tokyo… it’ll be i hope the biggest step i can make in my project – a full month worth of living and shooting, raw experience….
…WHAT NOT TO LOVE!
David B
¨and, of course, when time want to pay you 30 USD for a photo of a jar of pennies, you can decide for yourself if it is worth more.¨
You are on a roll! (pun intended)
Imants:
hahahaha, funny photo..we get your point.
ALL
Look, Burn magazine won a prestigious award because the web is the wave of the future. Magazine publishers pouted. And with good reason. It takes a hell of a lot more people to put out a quality magazine than the two people it takes to keep Burn going. But the internet is here and it is now and it is tomorrow. Paper is being left on the trees. People are being fired. Burn will thrive. And probably so will its copycats. Not everyone can be published on Burn. But everyone can share their photos on Flickr. And Flickr is not going away. Today Burn celebrated that world of the great unwashed masses with little gems of artistry and poignant expressive moments. And some of you begrudge them their Burning moment? tsk, tsk. You will all be left behind like the aging dinosaurs that you are. Grumble all you want but when your bookstore is bare, order up on Kindle. When you can´t get a photo magazine, click on Burn, and when your wife says she´s sick of being dragged to the computer to look at your work, upload to Flickr.
GRACIE
smooch!!!!!!!!!!
best
kathleen
canadian skunk…
what NOT to lovveeeeeee?
GORDON:
“So, everyone can afford an awesome camera these days, everyone is taking pictures, we are awash in images, this is a bad thing?” If we are awash with shit and mediocrity… YES.
BOB:
Just because David, who I respect deeply, decided to run this does not mean I have to like it. I would bet he wanted to fire up the readers knowing that this would be hotly argued over.
ANTON:
I understand what you mean about getting your work out there… but I think decisions have to be made about is it worth it. You can either create work and sell 16×20’s for $1000.00 and sell 50 or you can sell them for 50.00 and sell 1000 of them. But which builds a better brand and the right kind of buzz. Would you rather be selling prints in a respected gallery or on Wal Mart?
I think this thought process needs to be applied to WHERE your images are seen as well.
Do Nachtwey, Harvey, Nichols, Allard or any other famous and respected photographer display their images on Flickr?
I think about the only way of stopping images being swiped is to keep them lo-res enough to see clearly but not to print vey big. They’ll probably still get pinched for some kid’s school project but hopefully not form publication.
You can watermark; but an ugly watermark certainly doesn’t exactly enhance an image
But otherwise as David B says; “i think – as with wnywhere online – you take your chances”
kathleen..
¨and, of course, when time want to pay you 30 USD for a photo of a jar of pennies, you can decide for yourself if it is worth more.¨
You are on a roll! (pun intended)”
no – could not make it up.. that’s what time paid someone for a cover, which imants earlier brain farted about.. think it was a jar of pennies.. silo shot.. white background.. bland.. ordinary..
d
pete – anton..
christ no.. do not think of flickr as a way of selling..
photoshelter, yesyes
flickr is for shits n giggles..
d
ross..
i don’t want to sell my images on flickr… i want to use flickr to my advantage, not to sell… and sure there are plenty of “famous” photogs on flickr… but why would i care about that?
it’s about the media mix I create and use to my advantage… and i think flickr can play a role in that
is it really so that my images will be “degraded” “because of” flickr and that my work will be valued less?
i use flickr to upload photos i wanna show.. like bobs brilliant bones work being shown to BJARTEs class :o)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3487/3295409368_d7e1b766c5.jpg
Just because David, who I respect deeply, decided to run this does not mean I have to like it. I would bet he wanted to fire up the readers knowing that this would be hotly argued over.
Pete, exactly…nailed it
Just two quick things.
LFA is not flickr, it’s just a group that uses flickr as a platform or tool. I mean, you might hate flickr per se, but it is a platform with potential in the right hands (both in the quantity and quality of its users and in the way it works).
Second, Panos, for me flickr has not made photography cheaper: it has made it possible. And all the licenses I’ve sold through it have gone at standard rates (>£250).
David B
It´s like turning to cell phone users for the first shots of the subway terrorism in London..it´s also like getting the amateur street photos out of Tibet and also Iran..what is Time gonna do, send in one of their high priced preciosas two days later or get it in the here and now from whoever got it first? The industry´s changing, that´s quite clear and there are many who don´t like it but i mean, WHAT are they going to do to stop it? Go on strike? People are armed with cameras now. There is no tyrant who is going to stop that eventual leakage to the outside world. A jar of pennies. Ok, silly. Or not. Why pay Annie Liebowitz to shoot a jar of pennies? hell, she´d have cherubs floating around the cieling dropping coins into a wishing well that cost thousands to produce. Time either economizes or Time´s out of business. So they turned to Flickr. That´s life.
Besides, i love the irony. Time paid pennies for a jar of pennies from someone who shot it for free and uploaded it to the photo equivalent of Walmart (quoting Panos). Perfect.
k-
Do Nachtwey, Harvey, Nichols, Allard or any other famous and respected photographer display their images on Flickr?
Pete.:)
im tired agreeing with u today…
The day i will see DAH and Jim on flickr, that’ll be the day im gonna quit Burn “raussian” style…
even worst…think of martin parr on flickr…
Kat..laughing…
yep
flickr=wal mart
what not to buy ( love ) ??
Anton; I think you misunderstood my comment! I was just meaning when you have images on the web in general, including a personal website; that lo-res is about the only way to prevent them being stolen. I wasn’t bashing Flikr etc :-)
Cheers.
LFA is not flickr
……………………….
JONI, i totally agree on this one…
i think i said before that Rafal is NOT flickr and i respect him trying to curate
regardless if i like it or not..
its just as Pete said above, it was also a smart DAH move to fuel up Burn discussions once more..
brilliant
Panos
hahaha, now THAT would be a trip..Martin Parr on Flickr. I could see the comments on his photos now.
Yo, man, great pic!
Cool!
Wow!!!!
Your photo won the Cute Teddybear Award of the day and you are invited to post it on Group Teddy Poo..group rules upload one, comment on two.
What camera are you using to get these great shots?
Man, see mine, i got three just like this!
Love your stream, you do good work.
OR, Martin curating his own group..oh how i wish!
hahaha
k-
curates a group on Flickr..but i LOVE it! It´s so, so, ordinary!
ANTON:
“is it really so that my images will be “degraded” “because of” flickr and that my work will be valued less?”
Do you want to take that chance?
Panos,
i´m laughing with you but it doesn´t diminish my appreciation for Rafal´s published collection which i really like so much. To knock it just because it came out of Flickr is not fair. Just because you got out of the ghetto when you came to Burn and met DAH doesn´t mean there aren´t good shooters still back in the ghetto. How quickly you kick your past to the curb.
ok, outta here..am just beating a dead horse anyway..good discussion and what´s better..nobody´s going after anybody else´s throats.
so long 4 now
kat
LFA…
is actually pretty cool people ( im sure they hate me by now… i wasnt bashing LFA or rafal..
i was attacking the Wal Mart-ism of flickr.. thats all..:)
“And some of you begrudge them their Burning moment? tsk, tsk. You will all be left behind like the aging dinosaurs that you are. Grumble all you want but when your bookstore is bare, order up on Kindle. When you can´t get a photo magazine, click on Burn, and when your wife says she´s sick of being dragged to the computer to look at your work, upload to Flickr.”
Kathleen, you put way to much faith in technology. All the web will do is devalue your work. It may seem like a tool now, but eventually the web makes all things worthless.
panos – was flickr about when any of those photo heros of your began?
JONI K
good post..
laughing ..Kat,
seriously though…
i personally know some really cool cats from LA flickr..
ask jared, ludmilla, etc.. ive been in their shows and everything…
but.. again i think my point was clear…
night babe..:)
Anton. What DB says.
oh and for the record I HAVE A FLICKR ACCOUNT (in fact I have 2). if it bothers anyone..TOUGH!
Heres how i see it.
proffessional photographers. some are visionary, many are gifted, a whole heap are piece workers…and a hell of a lot are mundane…they mainly all aim to get paid for what they do, and rightly so as its a trade after all.
Amatuer photographers( the vast majority of flickr users)…Some are visionary,many are gifted…you get where the rest is going right?
Lots of them work in stupid offices or factories and they make pictures BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT!
The point is that the difference in the size of the pool of amateurs compared to the pool of pros is HUGE. It should also follow that while there are undoubtably MILLIONS of shit pictures added to the pool every single day..there are also hundreds if not thousands of absolute gems added EVERY SINGLE DAY.
You just have to know how to find them( which aint so hard after a while, they tend to find you)
Also, where else can you find information as easily??
If your thing is shooting 10×8 fp4 souped in dixactol…there is probably a group for it on flickr.
If you only shoot one film with one lens at one hour every other sunday…there is probably a bunch of people who do it too. HOW IS THAT A BAD THING???
The talent out there shooting just for the pleasure of it is staggering, and if they decide to give their pictures away for nothing…SO WHAT.
You must know that Martin Parr takes part on his flickr group…
You do have some well known photographers there, though. Zoe Strauss, Joachim Schmid, Brian Ulrich, many of the guys in In-Public have an account to read if they don’t post… I bet a few more I don’t remember right know.
David B…
i had some personal conversations with couple of my “heros” about flickr…
which im not gonna post ( yes i know, now i act like bob… laughing..)
and again… for a third time…
nothing wrong with LFA or rafal…
not AT ALL… good people, great photos…
the Wal Mart-ism of flickr i attack…
:))))
big hug
Joni…
u r one of the greatest photogs in flickr… no doubt…
no sarcasm… i think u already know that..
JARED I., LUDMILLA M… and more folks that i personally met and love and respect..
started or came out through flickr…
but again:
the Wal Mart-ism of flickr i attack…
Speaking of magazines, here´s something interesting..Panos, this has your name all over it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/technology/internet/30mag.html?_r=3&ref=business
Jim:
If the web ultimately makes all work worthless, why have you been scouring the web for photography since Compu-serve? i don´t GET you! I mean, YOU are HERE! You have a web page. I just don´t understand, Jim…(?) Maybe you feel that the sheer volume of people taking photos out there devalues the work. And in that i agree since we´re just awash in photographs. But it´s been an exciting, innovative ten years when just about the only photosites of any import were PhotoNet and PSIG. It was such a small photoworld then. You could track each other from place to place. It´s all changed so much. it´s so vast.
Anyway, my work would have to have value to someone other than me in order to be devalued. i´m really not in the same basket as the rest of you. I don´t do this for a living.
huge storm here..gonna log off..
best
kat
john G…
yep.. two accounts here as well.. you’re on the money like kathleen..
and it seems all.. even you panos.. have benefited from flickr..
full circle..
hate flickr.. yeah.. it’s shit man.. i tell ya.. man.. they fugged me up.. big stylee..
jeezee.. i know man.. i’sa pro.. innit? dya get meh?
yar..
yawn..
night all..
d
Joni
I don´t know you but i wanted to say thanks for that post about Flickr. I didn´t know that Martin Parr takes part over there. I know of course about In-Public and the other street shooting groups. Will look up the others you mentioned as well.
thx
kat-
kathleen.. windswept.. night..
´night David B…you´re tops!
k-
and joni for the history…
regardless of how many times i have argued on line with Rafal in the past…
the guy is a super talented photog… ( brilliant at times )…
even his LFA work published here is good ,honest, work no doubt..
its only the:
“…the Wal Mart-ism of flickr that i attack…”
thats all..:)
FLICKR is a tool, a storage, a forum, a corporate America with marketing sharks and stock price to be driven up.
but. check out the last 7 day interesting photos and you will agree with most that Panos is trying to say. WalMart.
the photos presented in today’s PHOTOSTREAM ( it ain’t an essay and it ain’t claimed as one ) ARE below average for BURN standards. These are mostly just portraits I personally would have hidden from public view if I was the one to click on the bigger button. Say, I would claim they just came out of my camera …
Now I have talking to do with BOB B.
BOB B. I love you and appreciate you but your choice of “THE WORD OF THE DAY” is hypocritical on its own. You have practiced recursive hypocrisy in the public eye. Whatever is said around flickr or not isn’t interesting nor will be remembered.
Who cares where the photos are coming. If flickr is a general tool then users of that tool are as well represent the general population. That is generalization on my part and MAY OR MAY NOT APPLY to folks in the list of photogs today – in fact, some of them are really good.
What I am trying to say is the PHOTOS should speak for themselves and for their authors and these photos are just photos. I cannot see anything outstanding here. Not a single one. Nothing that hasn’t been done in magnitude better by the list of influences that have been claimed by Rafal on tumblr. The folks on the list are trying to follow. and that is the problem.
cheers
John Gladdy
Just saw your post!
Congratulations, you have been awarded the Cute Teddy award. Please upload this comment to the Teddy Poo group, pronto!
:))))
kat-
@Panos, I’ve never been to walmart. I’m much greater in real life.
Back on topic, only thing I hate about flickr is this:
http://blog.flickr.net/en
mostly because that’s how outsiders will perceive it. The site is an amazing tool for little communities and networks, though, and I’ve seen it do much good in that sense. I wouldn’t probably know who Eggleston is if it was not because of it. Ridiculous stuff.
ross… I’M SORRY!!! i meant Pete…. now how on earth did that happen…. i apologize….
Pete –
it’s not even a question of “taking a chance”… i just don’t believe that it is true… do you really think that flickr would “degrade” the work of any photographer? actually make his/her work less valuable? and if so, why?
this is meant as an honest question… i honestly don’t know why and i would like to find out
cheers
a
Kathleen, I’ve been “scouring” the web long enough to see its trajectory. Art, photography, toy trains, “collector plates,” have value only until they become common. The web doesn’t distinguish between the valuable and the worthless…it’s the great equalizer. The web taught us something that we didn’t understand when we were more geographically restricted, it taught us that everything is common. The things we thought were rare and precious actually exist in abundance. Bad photography is common, but so is good photography. Neither is rare. So the web eventually makes everything common, worthless.
I like Wal-Mart…wanders off, muttering to himself….
Akaky..:)))
i have a wal-mart credit card ( yellow blue card with a happy face )account …in cali..
they credited me $1000…
3 months later when they figured i wasnt buying shit..they brought me down to $100…
ahhhhh…recession???
hi jim,
well not really to digress but being able to talk to you in texas, katiecakes in costa rica, reimar in germany and patricia in detroit, db on cloud 9 is PRICELESS….
what not to shoot – pssst what are you shooting these days? ive been following my mom all around as in bridget et bardou and ive got a great picture of her not liking it (following her around)
ANTON
I feel it is all about perception. Like most anything else, if people think your work is unique and rare the value of it will go up. Good marketing is not throwing a whole lot of shit on the wall as waiting to see what sticks. It is careful consideration of venue and timing.
The web is a great tool for marketing because of its viral ability. But I think one needs to be very careful about how it is used. It is too easy to steal images from flickr. But as I am sure you know, with something like photoshelter you can set up your images to “let” people steal them. The difference here is photoshelter lets people take them but your archive on photoshelter is linked to it. So everywhere that photo shows up, if it is clicked on it sends them back to your archive, where they can buy it if they want.
This is effective marketing.
Go to my website, http://www.petemarovichimages.com and click on the portfolio link in the navigation bar in the middle of the page. In that slideshow, any image you click on sends you directly to that image in my archive and you can purchase prints or license it for editorial use.
The thing about Flickr is that it is the site of the masses. And yes, before everyone starts yelling, there are some fine images there. BUT there is a lot of crap there also.
Look at it this way… What will do more for you… A couple of your images from your Japanese Mafia story (damn fine work by the way) hanging in a gallery with 10 other photographer’s work from Flickr or in a gallery with 10 of top names in photography?
If you don’t need to spread it all over every photo site to get your work known. You just need it in select venues. When the work is good, it will get noticed.
Don’t dilute your brand.
Just the usual stuff…how about a guy playing harmonica?
http://www.39thframe.com/harmonica_player.jpg
JIM
“The web doesn’t distinguish between the valuable and the worthless…it’s the great equalizer. The web taught us something that we didn’t understand when we were more geographically restricted, it taught us that everything is common. The things we thought were rare and precious actually exist in abundance. Bad photography is common, but so is good photography. Neither is rare. ”
I agree with that assessment. BUT…
” So the web eventually makes everything common, worthless.”
I disagree. It CAN do this…. This is why Anton should resist becoming common. The web is a tool. It can be a very valuable and inexpensive marketing wonder. But like a shotgun, when it is used properly it can put food on your table. When used improperly, you can shoot your damn foot off. Or damn near kill your hunting partner ala Dick Cheney.
AKAY
“I like Wal-Mart…wanders off, muttering to himself….”
That visual is too funny.
This is a lot of stuff to flick through……… yea I have no intentions of making flickr or walmart central to my life style
Photographs:
Jonathan Romano – http://www.flickr.com/photos/70355737@N00/
Lisa Wassmann – http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisa_wassmann/
Pierre Hebert – http://www.flickr.com/photos/pierrehebert/
Chris Wallish – http://www.flickr.com/photos/59669884@N00/
Armando Alvarez – http://www.flickr.com/photos/thewhiteelephant/
Sean Marc Lee – http://www.flickr.com/photos/le_carabinier/
Hans Palmboom – http://www.flickr.com/photos/27057665@N04/
Ariane Schrack – http://www.flickr.com/photos/ariane-s/
Lester Lai – http://www.flickr.com/photos/thecomfortzone/
Budi Sukmana – http://www.flickr.com/photos/budisukmana/
Lung Liu – http://www.flickr.com/photos/lungsliu/
Rebecca Rijsdijk – http://www.flickr.com/photos/bloemetjesbehang/
Martin Nicholls – http://www.flickr.com/photos/freudus/
Wing Poon – http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingdingo/
Dinah DiNova – http://www.flickr.com/photos/knitbone/
Jay Divinagracia – http://www.flickr.com/photos/ride/
Karen Rudd – http://www.flickr.com/photos/quejes/
Tess Roby – http://www.flickr.com/photos/tessroby/
Anabel Navarro – http://www.flickr.com/photos/mundo_subreal/
Tor-Arne Riksheim – http://www.flickr.com/photos/trixheim/
Luka Knezevic-Strika – http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamoneki/
Oscar Juarez – http://www.flickr.com/photos/tridi_animeitor/
Berangere Fromont – http://www.flickr.com/photos/berange/
David Perez Facorro – http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_fisher/
Furrukh Khan – http://www.flickr.com/photos/furrukh/
Cyril Costhiles – http://www.flickr.com/photos/sikost/
Søren Larsen – http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_k/
Marek Wykowski – http://www.flickr.com/photos/wykowski/
Alessandro Marchi – http://www.flickr.com/photos/cafone/
Websites:
La Familia Abrazada – http://www.flickr.com/groups/lfa
La Familia Abrazada on tumblr – lafamiliaabrazada.tumblr.com
wait trhere is probably more
Shooting nothing today. Just writing, stuck behind the laptop.
However; have just spent about two hours looking for a hotshoe adapter so I can use an off camera flash on the Holga (esp for Halloween!). As usual, found everything I didn’t need and thought I had lost, but not the adapter!
Katie; I did find 6 rolls of expired Provia. I might shoot it through the Holga and cross-process… Any cross-processing thoughts?
I’m looking forward to Halloween in a few days and will spend the entire day out shooting the kids. Also the “Hell-oween” metal night at the indie music club!
Pete, yes its funny, because it is a mindless simplification of something totally different. So yes, watching people, including you, buy into this sort of intellectual laziness is, well, funny in a very very sad way. What is Flickr? Yes, in a way it is millions of unsorted, unedited streams. But is that all it is? If you think so, I feel sorry for you because all I can say is that you skim the surface, you make wild statements and you put no work into digging deeper. I put together a collection of photos that in a way cut a wide cross section of work in LFA. It was not meant to be anything but an invitation for people to explore some good work, a starting point for you to take your own trajectories. What is funny, in a sad way, is that some people express a love of photography but are too lazy to dig in and maybe find work that would satisfy them in some way. Is my edit good? It is just my edit, based on my tastes but I think there is enough width there that something, even one imjage would attract most people and that image would lead to more, and more. It is afterall photography, something we all profess to like.
But instead, all I see is mindless, yes mindless attacks by people with some bone to pick with or a prejudice against flickr. Some people, I expected this from. Heres a nod to Jim, and Imants. Some though, I did not expect this from at all. So while we are on the subject of flickr, yes, it is huge, wild, etc. But it is also small communities of people who coalesce around a common interest, be that LFA or street photography, or landscapes, ot whatever they want. Some groups are open, but spme are closely curated. The thing that makes me like flickr is this ability to engage with others who share a common interests, participate in common projects, build small networks, exchange ideas, argue, debate, form cooperatives, etc. This is not possible on your own, stand alone website, though that is a great but different tool too.
Does flickr degrade photography? In what way? Some people give away their work? Maybe. But just being on flickr doesnt mean your own work is degraded, or devalued, you are in control of who gets what. Theft? It happens even from websites, thats a non-argument.
My advice is stop the screaming, find one image you like, go to the link and start from there. Check oput some of the groups it is in, that may lead you to more. Is this a lot of work? Perhaps for some any work is too much work. Imants and Jim, heres looking at you, kids. You of all people shouldnt be the ones screaming about mediocrity. Not you.
hey Pete!
thanks for taking the time to answer…
generally speaking, i actually believe, and hope that my photographs will stand up regardless of where (or with whom) they stand.
well… i hope so at least :-)
i guess i’m saying that the only thing that will “dilute” my “brand”, is me effectively making bad photographs
…not where i actually display them
or am i wrong?
cheers…
a
Rafal, I’ve never claimed to be anything but mediocre. A hired gun. So how do you describe yourself?
A couple of your images from your Japanese Mafia story (damn fine work by the way) hanging in a gallery with 10 other photographer’s work from Flickr or in a gallery with 10 of top names in photography?
——————————-
Pete, because getting a group show with “10 top names in photography” is a snap? Is this the choicewe are faced with? Seriously, do you think things through before you post? Or do things just fly out? Flickr is a tool for unknown amateurs to coalesce together around common interests. How can that be bad?
I go to very few select area to look at photography, mainly sites of friends or links they send me. Or Magazines such as BURN, The Digital Journalist, A Photo Editor etc. I am a working photographer and I do not have a lot of time to surf, discuss and debate. I have actually spent too much time on this thread here, but I feel strongly about marketing that dilutes and has no pointed mission other than to spread as much of oneself over the internet.
When Nachtwey posts his TB work on Flickr, I will tell him the same thing. I don’t think I will ever have to have that conversation with him. I bet DAH would like to sell some more books, maybe he should post his Hip Hop stuff there. …Calm down Panos… I am joking of course because the idea that they would is ludicrous.
I think what you tried to do was interesting. I just do not feel that it worked. This is my opinion, and we all know what those are worth. But that is why you submitted the work here and why you let there be comments. No need to be offended. Take the approach that Allard does…he simply says “I’m not for everyone”… Damn I love that quote.
And my only point about theft is that, yes people are going to lift images off of web sites. But why not let them do it so it benefits you. Like the photoshelter embed method.
And I am NOT SCREAMING! (grin)
OK. Now back to editing.
you like flick well and good enjoy it I can’t see where it is compulsory to like it…….. my gripe is that it is a un-edited floating giant stranded in a wading pool.A myriad of group of tadpoles do not make viewing easier.
As for yes mindless attacks…. Rafal (whoever you are) you are just as guilty with your attack on Jim or is it just your nasty streak surfacing.
RAFAL
That was not to be taken LITERALLY. It was an analogy. Jeeze.
Imants, sorry, what’s your point here?
“This is a lot of stuff to flick through”
Pete, so basically you admit to knowing nothing about flickr beyond some surface assumptions and yet you are vocal enough about it. Seems like a recipe for disaster. Again you go and mention a famous name in context of Flickr. Ofcourse Nachtway isnt going to post on flickr, why would he? Nachtwey has many other avenues of getting his work out. How does Nachtwey even come up in this discussion? Flickr isnt for Nachtwey or Harvey or Koudelka, it is for amateurs who like photography, who want to show work but don’t have “names” or any real opportunities for reaching a wider audience.
Imants,
I put my full name on my posts, you go by only your first name. I think the “whoever you are” would better apply to you. Liking flickr isnt compulsory, but you would do well with some remedial thinking skills. My nasty streak? So far the one with the nastiness has been you.
Rafal, good on you for setting Burn alight this morning. Or should I be congratulating Panos. I wish it was like this here all the time.
“it is for amateurs who like photography, who want to show work but don’t have “names” or any real opportunities for reaching a wider audience.”
My point EXACTLY… Anton does not fall into that category.
Rafal …… ” but you would do well with some remedial thinking skills” see another nasty put down.
Evidently flickr is ants pants to you so keep on loving it……
Imants; Anything like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXZqGI9zW0Y
:-))
No that along with this are just humorous tit bits……. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl3a70T3kpk&feature=related
Gordon if you can’t figure it out you can’t figure it out
RAFAL
Do you really think this is a “critique” of flickr? Or
Do you think this is a critique of “flickr”?
If you presented something that would knock some socks off, there would be no so-called “flickrophobia led by that guy Panos”. That is how social sites work. Majority wins.
Flickring cheers
Imants; Yea that’s the better one! I’m back on dial-up today so was lucky to find the first one! I’d be as old as Methuselah by the time I’d found two clips!
Those ads certainly caused a few of the moral majority here in NZ to get their tits in a tangle with indignant self righteousness! :-)
As a change of tack… What music is everyone listening to while working/at the computer? Me; “Paris, Texas” soundtrack (Ry Cooder at his best) just finished, now Goat’s Head Soup; Rolling Stones…
Ross I listen to no music, turn any radios off etc
ROSS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rmil_raUtU
since you asked……
soft and mellow tonight…
***
Ross
This one seems appropriate
Ross
I’ve got my Ipod on shuffle and at this very moment, it’s playing Lisieux from the soundtrack of La môme about Edith Piaf.
Each kind of slide film cross processes differently. The guy in the lab i go to (thank God i still have a lab to go to) says that Kodak slide flims produce better color shifts in cross process. I never cross processed Provia. I have a lot of Fuji Sensia film in the fridge so that’s what i have to use up. Usually the cross process is fine. I like the contrast and the color shifts are pleasing. I can warm them up or cool them off in my scanning software. One time i shot a flea market and the color shifts were pretty intense and not much i could do to tone it down. Good thing it was a flea market. Sort of went with the territory. Let me know how you like it. There’s a woman who goes to the lab. She shoots exclusively with Holga and cross processed film. She’s super intense about it. Shoots fashion commercially with it.
best
kat-
Katie; Thanks for that. I found the 6 rolls and they are 3 years outdated. So I thought I may as well put them through the Holga, cross process them and see what happens. just got to go and find some foam now so I can wedge the rolls in the Holga! :-)
Rafal..
Don’t worry about the naysayers. You done good. You turned this place on its ear which was something it damned well needed. Your collection was the biggest surprise i could ever have imagined finding here and i couldn’t be more thrilled. Just stay calm, don’t lose your temper. Don’t get grouchy. Those that don’t like it are not going to change their minds. Those that do won’t change theirs either.
Saludos!
kat
Ross
I think that sounds like a blast! Expired film, shot in a Holga and cross processed. Put the pedal to the metal and go! One thing, the woman i know tapes up her camera big time. She loves the funky film effects but doesn’t like the gimmicky light leaks. She also shoots the camera so much she knows exactly what it will do so her work is quite consistent, what i’ve seen of it anyway.
Once you know the color shifts you can shoot subjects that will work with that tonal range. Could be neat..
I can’t wait to see what you do with this, Ross!
tell me when you have some samples on your website.
k~
Katie;
Mine has no light leaks (I tape up the film counter just in case though). Unless it’s something stupid that I have done like opening the back thinking I’ve completely unwound the film, and haven’t. But of course I’ve “never” done that, cough, cough….
jim,
thanks for posting that one. looks like you snuck that in though as in – without permission or with a long long lens. somewhat grainy but i think it’s just the guy’s skin. hahah.
rossy and katy,
ive thought against holgagography and film processing. too much work and i havent even started yet. thank goodness katy stopped me in my tracks like a 4 1/2 year old tiptoeing to and from halloween candy…. ive not gone into the whole thing but psssttt…. i got me a lens cap for my camera and im thinking to shoot through that one tonight once i get bored painting my toes.
rafal,
i cant say that i love all of the pictures absolutely but i commend you with the work youve done. nuff said about who’s who and who’s what wherever, we all got to start somewhere
ROSS – The ABC Radio National country hour – the best source of photo stories in the Land.
Ross
ohhhh, noooo, of course you never did that..hehehe.. have done it all with film. my favorite is trudging around, pushing myself to just finish the roll, promising that i can get a cappuccino after i reach #36, straining to see the next pic, and the next and the next, trying to read the light (i shoot manual), stay focused, not give in to the fatigue, just pushing myself through a wall..then finishing and finding out the film had not loaded properly and i hadn’t exposed a single frame. YES, i did that and a hundred other stupid mistakes. grrrr…
Gracie
I am SO glad to see you back around here, Graciegrrl! You have been missed greatly. I swear that’s why AndrewB skulked off into the ether cuz you were gone..boo-hoo..but you’re baaack, so it’s all good!
Yes, you know, you have a job and kids and a life and starting out seriously in film, especially with old cameras and MF at that would have been an uphill battle for you. Keep it simple for now. Maybe someday when all you have to think about is yourself you can bite off more than you can chew but for now..what’s the need? Sounds like an interesting project, shooting your Mom. I wouldn’t be into my daughter shooting me and i am quite sure my Mom wouldn’t appreciate me shooting her though for that reason it’s worth doing ;)
Anyway, keep going..and poetry…*sigh*..drop us a couplet, or a triplet or a quadruplet one of these days..your gentle prose has been lacking around here..
hugZ
k~
that’s the problem miss katiecakes, the springs have sprung dry. wasnt wanting too much of negativity in here with all the party and booze but for some odd reason not a single dew drop for poetry, no diesel for the shutter finger, can’t strum the guitar strings, just busy busy busy.
but also been watching… watching watching…
well is that so? andrewb is missed too. he and his DIET coke… ngork.. well, im still trying to get ranch sprinklins on the popcorn, drips of pistachio ice cream, cremed bavarians out of me uggs and spraynet hair.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Autumn by Rilke
The leaves fall, fall as if from far
as if withering in the farthest gardens of the sky.
Fall and with that gesture cry out, No!
And in these nights falls all this heavy earth
through a million stars in the loneliness.
We all fall. Here, this hand falls.
And look at the others: it is in all.
And yet there is one, who in his hands
this endless falling, always, gently holds.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
for you my BURNian friends… in all our follies when we fall there is always one who gently holds
Graciekins
ohmy, you said the U-word. Shhh, erase it before Davins sees it..he has a low tolerance for girls in uggs. Well, he’s probably deep in conversation right now with a supermodel so i think you’re safe for the moment but watch it. He sees you wear uggs and he’s bound to label you a FASHION FOLLOWER!
now, to the important part of your post..soon as i saw the name Rilke i smiled, and relaxed..threw off the cares of the day to settle in with some good stuff..don’t worry, Gracie, the pistachio ice cream and bavarian creme in the rug lasts for such a precious short time, don’t wish one single day of it away..one day you’ll wish one of your kids was there to drop ice cream on the floor :))
“And in these nights falls all this heavy earth
through a million stars in the loneliness.”
isn’t that just utterly beautiful?
mmmm..thanks g’kins…thanks
xoxoxoxyourself
katie
Has everyone checked out the superb Georgian Spring!? Stunning: http://www.georgianspring.com/
Ross & Glenn
hi, i guess we’re all neighbors – globally speaking ; )
Ross
KCRW on line – a great mix of eclectic styles and an amazing archive – one of the best radio stations on the planet! –Jeremy Soul– is my current fav… http://www.kcrw.com/music/programs/bh/branches.
His passion, attitude and global appreciation make him a honorary burnian in my mind…
Glenn
The ABC Radio National country hour… love it! i often try to listen in the car, signal roles in and out though… can’t get much else down here apart from triple-j & ABC local, ABC wins most times…
now i gotta get back to heaps of migration paper work :-(
bob black
October 27, 2009 at 3:40 pm
“Panos:
u r a hypocrite….
what is a sad day is your continual double-dealing bullshit….”
……………………………………………………………………..
thank u bob for showing ( at last ) your true colors…
and if u remember well, on september 20th,( that was the last time out of NUMEROUS TIMES )
u promised that u r changing yourself,YOU ARE QUITTING BURN…
u r becoming a better person and you said farewell to all of us in rAussian…
let me remind u:
“bob black
September 20, 2009 at 5:37 pm
“Все думают, что изменить мир, но никто не думает о себе изменения.”-Tolstoy
i am changing myself…
до свидания Burn”…”
SO bob …what happened? why you came back? why not changed yourself? why in raussian and not english so
everyone can understand?what changed your mind?
why u r so toxic and poisonous specifically towards me bob?
how many times have u quit and then came back , nor that its my business..
but who is the real hypocrite around here?
i would like to know why your personal attacked me 10 hours ago, before we throw our friendship into the garbage,…
i just wanna give u one more chance to SPIT ON MY FACE…
since obviously according to u,
im not allowed to have an opinion about flickr or foam or superman or batman or anything…
One more chance and i know you’ll be happy to take it..
i also accept personal emails here:
innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com
soooooooo…go ahead spit…release the poison and feel better .. just curious…
your dissapointed and dissed ex friend Panos the Hypocrite…
big hug
Imants — I’m sorry man. Circular logic and all that.. Must be tough.
Panos — Thanks for starting the shitstorm. :)
The funny thing is, the Flickr people I know all know the seminal books and movements of photography, while David constantly talks how people here don’t, people in his workshops don’t…. wonder why that is? :)
“jim,
thanks for posting that one. looks like you snuck that in though as in – without permission or with a long long lens. somewhat grainy but i think it’s just the guy’s skin. hahah.”
Gracie, I was actually on my knees, about three feet from the guy’s face with a 24-70 2.8 zoom. And, yeah, the “grain” is the guy’s well used skin. Great face, though.
Jared…
yes.. agree… i was there in that conversation that DAH was
“complaining” or pointing out most folks “weak” educational skills…
history of photography regarding…
not an easy answer…or maybe not?
And totally agree…
“Your” flickr friends are really heavily educated…
i already admitted that…
some of them ( thanks to u ) i met personally…
and…about the shitstorm..:))))
thank u for giving me most of credit,… i totally deserve it..
but isnt it my job? pot stirring and pot smoking??????
;)
but lets be fair…
a big thank u also to the rest of the crew that supported,
welcomed and fed the last shitstorm…
without everyones help that chimed in, i wouldnt be able to
pull it… just by myself…
impossible…
( now can u do something like that on Foam, or aperture or NY Times..)
maybe some day but not any time soon..
viva burn…viva LFA..( big thanks to rafal also..)
:)))))))))))
Jared..
well said both here and under Rafal’s ‘essay’..
Panos
“now can u do something like that on Foam, or aperture or NY Time?”
nope..it was a good day here at Burn..a very, very good day. The discussion was flying fast and furious and it was GREAT! All the contributors..all good!
Thank you, Rafal, thank you DAH! (thank you Anton!)
goodnight to me, good morning to you
Kat
“i have a wal-mart credit card ( yellow blue card with a happy face ) account”
panos
to get it straight – you’re a flickr-hater with a flickr account who likes some flickr photographers and met a couple of friends on, erm, flickr, and also a walmart hater with a walmat credit card.. who doesn’t use walmart, yet is pissed that walmart reduced the amount they would lend him to shop there.
have to laugh mate.. you know..
rafal.. good that you kicked the hornets nest..
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJF5zBsb_5I/AAAAAAAAAUc/qwv9_vblv9g/s1600-h/02160006.jpg
good morning..
i only noticed this last night, but in our bens blog a while ago, (a flickr user), there was a post about gup using a photo without permission.. i lent a perspective and gups editors quickly jotted response led to a storm in a tea-cup.. tea leaves, sugar and milk splashed everywhere..
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJF5zBsb_5I/AAAAAAAAAUc/qwv9_vblv9g/s1600-h/02160006.jpg
it’s interesting since, on balance, this relates in some way to the internet and the idea of photography being free..
now that the discussion on bens blog is a little past it’s sell by date, it’s possible to read all the responses, (if you’re bothered).. i might have been a little tough and reactionary in the first instance.. yet it strikes me that – even when gup could perhaps claim fair use – photographers are quite outspoken on the subject of print use without permission..
d
bens link;;
http://benrobertsphotography.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/gup-magazine-feature-my-work-but-dont-let-me-know/
Jared you are a fan and i reckon it is a site that promotes mediocrity, so be it go and post a image there.
Yea Bob a strange one on that……. maybe it is just a burn thing for him who knows
flickr well……. http://etrouko.com.au/art/09may.jpg
has that pig got balls on it’s neck?
Imants, you readily throw mediocrity around, do you think your work on Burn rose above mediocrity?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJAfzvXlgMI/AAAAAAAAAN8/XRDaYYXrfX4/s1600-h/17.jpg
It’s a boar like me mate raf…….press beep beep ignore
…any way what can I do with my ex mate Rafs I attack flickr he attacks me. Time to go out with Mick for a spot of roo and pig shootin and I ain’t postin no pics of dead stuff ;;;;;;
yet!
“i guess i’m saying that the only thing that will “dilute” my “brand”, is me effectively making bad photographs
…not where i actually display them”
anton
i’d agree with that..
using flickr.. lightstalkers.. a free website or your own crappily built one, (like mine) makes no real difference.. it’s just how it is used – as a method of delivery or a ‘hopeful’ waste of time.
imants, jim, pete.. you’re all right with valid and sensible point.. apologies for calling it sensible.. it is a fat boar which is tiresome to bother with.. a public family album.. a hive of delusion.. the negatives are there.
it is possible to spend your life uploading, connecting with ‘friends’ and accepting the bland platitudes which make flickr unbearably cheezy.. (GREAT IMAGE.. SUPERB.. LOVE THAT CAT IN A BOMBER JACKET..PLEASE JOIN OUR GROUP).. it could easily be a place to delude yourself with the help of GONZO69, JACKDASNAP and others..
or
it could be a place to hotlink yer photos.. use the slideshow application to show a client work.. create and maintain a group of like minds.. ond so on..
back on road trips people used it to show work, the way that photoshelters free account is used on burn.
i’m sure galleries, editors and the like just want to see photos.. in fact, the photoshelter client survey backs that up.. they care about the quality of talent..
if a client cannot get over the method of delivery, are they a client worth having?
remember – a whole bunch of us worked for years without any benefit from the internet.. many fear the change.. when really there is nothing to fear but our own failings and poor imagery.
obviously it’s not for everyone and if you’re hitting up big brand ad agencies or marketing yourself as a creative visual artists they will expect to see more of who you are..
editorial photographers though.. who cares? not me.
..a dead cat in a bomber jacket, posted on flickr, could be it’s own form of expression.
killem quick, imants.. blow their lungs out.
It’s one of those days and I left my bomber jacket at home http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
DARWINS BEARD!!
that must be worth a pretty penny.
kaaaaat!!!!!!!!!!!
at least u get it…
u see thats the thing… folks get jealous for not giving them credit…for
last night shitstorm…ok db… cudos to u too…
jee… thanks for your contribution..
i thought u moved onward..
wa happin???????
still upset?
( who said im pissed wal mart took my credit back…ohh i know…u said it…)
Yea Bob a strange one on that……. maybe it is just a burn thing for him who knows…
Imants, yep.. there are some personal shit going on with bob behind the scenes for
quite a while now…unfortunately he decided to bring it on under cover…
ahhh …i wish i could explain….
– you’re a flickr-hater with a flickr account …
ahhh…ok i’ll tell u why considering u r not a tech guru…:)
reason i put photos on flickr 2 years ago it was because that was
the only way to post my photos on my blog at that point…
i still have this blog…never update it… it was when i came back from look3
and i wanted to post some shit on my blog…( dikasthrio tou kosmou)
that was the name of my blog…
as Haik said it was a temporary storage to move the photos to the blog..
i know, i know…its like talking chinese to you right now…
sorry mate, out of respect to you..i just dont wanna leave you hanging in the dark all alone…
thats why im explaining…even if u still dont get it ..trust me somebody else does…
biggest hug…
( not sarcastic )…
for political reasons i abandoned my blog…since u r a great detective im sure u already
realized the tech part of my story…
Anyway y’all…
28th of october in greece today…
National holiday…marches, marching bands…crazy shit all over this country…
A;ll dressed in blue…
what not to love???
again db, sorry for forgetting to give u credit for the yesterday’s shitstorm..
my bad..
forgive me…
no worries… u’ll get another chance…
:)))
you da man.
*coughs*
…ok man.. whatever ..
hate to leave u alone.. gotta go eat…
stay here..i’ll be back…
u either have lots of time in your hands…
or time is on your side…
either way.. keep whistling the same tune…
u take over now…
again i thought u moved onwards ( your words )
but obviously u r working for someone else today..
just say hi to bob for me…
( just dont make it that obvious…u r a loyal friend ..
good for u..)
no hug
??
what are you talking about?
i’m freelance..
anyway..
enjoy your fud
NY to Burbank. No one in the middle seat. Great start to the day. See you all in a few hours.
David:
“if a client cannot get over the method of delivery, are they a client worth having?”
that is kinda like saying it would be a good idea for someone to go on a job interview for a high-end executive position wearing shorts, t-shirt and flip-flops. I doubt seriously that the interviewer would get over “the method of delivery”
I would not show my work on a shitty web site any more than I would show my work to a client in a raggy loose-leaf binder.
And I am not trying to put down talented photographers who post images on flickr. I am sure there is some good work there. I just think they should show it somewhere else.
also i said – if you’re going for top end ad agencies or galleries something else is needed.. i am not suggesting a high end executive go for a job in trainers or shorts.
the point of fact is that none of the clients i have had have cared and i’ve only had a website for the past few years.. none of them cared about the website..
when picture requests come in from XXX, the XXX.. XXX.. it was because i had the pictures, not because i had a whistles n bells website… anything will do..
(in fact none of them even looked at it, as the work came by word of mouth..)
if someone has little money or interest in building their own site – why not start using flickr for part of their business.. or lightstalkers.. or another of the many free applications?
because of your prejudice?
the ideal is to have our own, superb and clean, websites.. it has to be..
yet outside the ideal there is still a great deal or room for showing great work by any means needed to get it out there.. and getting it out there is the most important thing.. focused, tailored and client specific folios.
then, when the bigger bucks come in, dump the free-bees.
i get annoyed at the perceived barriers to entry into this profession.. because good photographers need not worry about how they show slideshows, what camera they shoot with or how big their lens is..
if they do believe that stuff it could mean higher debts, more of a struggle and more likelihood that they will fail within three years.. and fail not because of bad photography.
doesn’t great photography blind you to the website bordering it?
“doesn’t great photography blind you to the website bordering it?”
in the case of Flickr… NO
I have given my opinion and explained it. If people do not agree, that if course is fine. It is not worth arguing about and I certainly do not have any investment in whether other photographers are marketing themselves well. Actually it benefits me if they don’t.
I have work to do.
name of this thread is
TIME OUT
whoa…..
still this debate the next day?!?!?!?!
come on….
move forward….
endless circles…
around
and
around…..
let it go…..
PEACE
to all…
xox
David Bowen
“i get annoyed at the perceived barriers to entry into this profession.. because good photographers need not worry about how they show slideshows, what camera they shoot with or how big their lens is..
if they do believe that stuff it could mean higher debts, more of a struggle and more likelihood that they will fail within three years.. and fail not because of bad photography.”
exactly… nicely put…
i think there is always too much emphasis put on these things. after all it’s your images that count and what your trying to say with them, not how flash (pardon the pun) your site is… or what gear you’ve got… yes presentation is important, and once you’ve begun your career you need to be mindful of the clients you are courting and aim to show your work accordingly, but things have to be kept in perspective and photography is an expensive passion which ever way you cut it.
i think it’s brilliant that these days anyone can get a free e-blogger account or flicker or whatever… it’s a great way to start out and i know that the art directors and editors doing the really exciting work are open minded enough to see past the wrapping paper…
you know that back-in-the-day it cost a fortune to maintain a portfolio, and i remember a certain photographer coming along with a tiny old scrap book filled with polaroids and the art directors loved it, lapped it up, he got whisked away almost instantly and we were left going “huh?- what?”.
WHY? because his work was fresh, unique, exciting… that’s what counts, in my opinion…
“And I am not trying to put down talented photographers who post images on flickr. I am sure there is some good work there. I just think they should show it somewhere else.”
With digital images — scanned photographs or those from fancy-ass digital cameras — you can put your photos up anywhere and everywhere. It’s not like you are going to run out of copies. Most of the photographers I like who have photos on Flickr also have portfolio sites on their own domains. Flickr is certainly a good place to share your images, and to see what other people have been photographing. There are lots of great groups on Flickr showcasing excellent work. If you are a professional photographer, it’s not like you HAVE to show your clients your flickr page.
Shitty photos on Flickr would be just as shitty on a WordPress photoblog.
It’s a bit disappointing that so much of the discussion around that LFA essay centered on the fact the images came from Flickr, and not on the photographs themselves.
“i think there is always too much emphasis put on these things. after all it’s your images that count and what your trying to say with them, not how flash (pardon the pun) your site is”
I think your thinking is pure fantasy. Everything matters. Every detail matters. Presentation matters as much as it ever did…if you are really serious.
If the average amateur is on flickr, why as a professional want to be? Do you really want to send a potential client to flickr to look at your stuff and have them venture around and find someone elses stuff they like better – and cheaper?
“Hey client, I’m cheap and can’t even afford my own professional web site. Hire me!”
Jared
very well summed up re Familia
Jim, I recall a discussion on just this topic, ie., professional website vs. photosharing galleries, back on Road Trips. Actually, in those days I was arguing for photosharing galleries as a valid way to show your work, but DAH was quite clear about the importance of having your own professional-looking website to showcase your work. Fortunately I took his advice to heart and paid the bucks it took to set up my own photo website. I’ve never been sorry, especially now that I’m pushing to get my self portrait project published as a book. As you say, “Every detail matters. Presentation matters as much as it ever did…if you are really serious.”
Patricia
Here’s an excerpt from a blog post by successful stock photog, John Lund that I came across
yesterday that made me rethink my ideas on all those Mothr Flickrs. Why worry about it.
“The Road Ahead
I do believe that the road ahead for photography does offer some of us increased opportunities, but that overall, making a living from stock photography will never be as easy as it once was. The first step to future success in this new paradigm is letting go of the concept of whether these changes are right or wrong. The next step is to see the market objectively, determine where your own strengths coincide with the changes in the market, and to move in the direction of those strengths.”
The phrase, “Good enough” has permeated our society. The egalitarian nature of the web has only accelerated that process.
Bu Jim, “Are you good enough?” :>))
Jim
You and Pete keep talking about flickr (and in your case the web in general) devaluing our work. Well, you are both sniffing the air as professionals. Not ALL are pros! I live in a country where if i was a pro i wouldn´t be able to earn enough money to buy so much as a lens cap (seriously! i had to buy a lens cap for my daughter last week and the price was beyond absurd). Ergo, i make better money elsewhere to support my photography habit. So people like us, what do we do, upload everything to our hard drive and keep it there lest we dilute the value by sharing it online? Something only has value when someone buys it. Or, as i personally think, when someone outside yourself sees and appreciates it.
That said, Flickr is not the perfect place to show your work. By a long shot. It has serious downsides. It´s kinda like public transportation. It´s cheap and eventually gets you where you want to go but you have to put up with a lot along the way. But maybe you can´t afford a website..maybe you have a family to feed and every dollar and every minute you invest in your work is a huge deal..then places like Flickr can help you test the water, gets you outside yourself, gets you feedback, builds relationships, a reputation, caché. It´s up to you how you market yourself there as anywhere and it´s up to you to know when to leave Flickr, take the leap into your own website. Like getting your own car finally. It´s yours. People can google your name and wham, there´s your groovy website. You take it to the next level when you´re ready, if ever.
Till then, you walk the same flickr sidewalk as the unwashed millions, scrambling and scratching and clawing to get your work seen above the heads of everyone else..a metaphor for the real world if you will. There´s no yellow brick road just for the ultra-talented, the woo-woo of the world that you get a ticket for at birth..all of you, everyone here had to rise above the muck to be where they are now. And right out of the gate i doubt any single one of you could have afforded a website. So spare a coin for the amateurs, please. We are often the innovators, the risktakers, the true artists because we don´t have to whore ourselves out to put bread on the table.
So, my final thought, what devalues your work more, Flickr? Or investing your god-given talent shooting toothpaste (or its equivalent)?
best
Kathleen
mtomalty, probably not. :)
Kathleen, Flickr is fine for amateurs who just want to get some atta boys and put their stuff online. It’s just a matter of how serious you are and how far you want to go.
If you have all these commitments, limited time, and no spare money to put into your photography, you probably aren’t going to get very far professionally, anyway (and I say that in the kindest way possible and not directing it at you). Photographers that “make it” work incredibly hard and make incredible sacrifices to get there. Harder and longer than you (generic you) can ever imagine.
Anyone here familiar with Noah Kalina? http://noahkalina.com/
Here’s a bit where he talks about how he gets work.
“JS: What has been the most successful way for you to get assignment work?
Noah Kalina: The internet.
I have not gotten work any other way. The whole drop your portfolio thing off never worked for me. I found that approach to be the most frustrating and demeaning process there is. I have a portfolio but I never show it around. I really haven’t needed to.
I have also never sent out postcards or done any self promotion campaign.
I just put my work online, either my website, which I have had since 2000 (it looked way different back then) or on the photo sharing websites. I started with Fotolog after I left art school and then ended up on flickr. 90 percent of the work I get now is through flickr and other 10 percent is from personal connections I have made. I have had art directors and photo editors reach out to me after seeing my work on flickr. Then it snowballs. They publish you in a magazine, another magazine sees it, you get another job. That art director moves to another magazine and hires me at the new mag.”
Sorry, that interview is from http://toomuchchocolate.org/?p=191
in general, stock photography is a dead horse which some insist on trying to revive..
photoshelter had such an excellent effort at a new way of doing things.. it was copied i believe.. before it fell under.
as i mentioned in the post jared quoted – digital photography has destroyed some areas of the market completely.. not flickr.. flickr is just the boar some choose to hang the blame upon.. others choose istockphoto..
silo shots of pens and pencils have been ‘outed’ as easy and everyone on the block has done 3000 of them and uploaded to cent4aphoto.com in the hope of earning an apple a year.
people are even shooting to specific spec for stock now.. if a clients desired image can not be found, some sites will offer it up for grabs and a people will actually go and shoot-to-brief for free in the hope of getting virtually nothing from it.. that used to be called editorial work.. and i’m not suprised time magazine only wanted to pay 30 buck for a photo of a jam jar.
i think photoshelter earnings were expected to be 200 USD per photographer, per 1000 images uploaded.. i had 500 up when they shut and earn”t 60 USD over 6 months.. nothing.
the only way of making proper money from stock is to do the same thing which could make a living in editorial – shoot personal, idiosyncratic subjects which no one else could shoot the same way.
in fact – just shoot that and submit to stock .. shooting for stock alone is dead really.
jim / pat
i only build a site some 3 or 4 years ago.. did absolutely nothing for my busy business.. but taking good photos, delivering on time, working hard and being easy going paid dividends.. no fantasy and in all sincerity… it’s taken me quite far.. sacrifice, of course.. website?
well – i like to credit commissions to my work, not my website.. :o)
when setting up i don’t think it matters what kind of online presence you have – no one will give you work until they have met / spoken / heard of/ you.. of course it is different when approaching something like a book proposal or developing your work further.. but to get the ball rolling it’s about great photography.. it has to be.
there are as many clean lovely sites with poor work as there are diabolical contributors on flickr..
top priority is photo taking.. when you have some good ones of harmonica players, quit flickr and build a site..
d
d
bryan :o)
Jim
Ohhhhhhh, i can tell you personally, that some amateurs work harder and longer and sacrifice more than you could ever know for their work. And exactly for that same reason: because they have to put in their time on their other jobs in order to pay for their first love. I realize you are speaking generically. As a serious amateur, i am speaking for a lot of us as well. And a web site is a big step for us. One we have to weigh carefully. I am there, tottering on that edge. It´s time. But without photo sites? I would NEVER have gotton to this point. Not in a million years. But do i want to be Pro? No, i have NO desire to be pro. None, zero, zilch. Zip.
Bryan
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
back to work now
kathleen
David B
¨there are as many clean lovely sites with poor work as there are diabolical contributors on flickr..
top priority is photo taking.. when you have some good ones of harmonica players, quit flickr and build a site..¨
YES, EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
k-
Just to show the amount of money and effort that goes into promoting photogs as brands getting in there in front of clients have a look at http://stocklandmartelblog.com/
Happy reading
ian
it strike me that we all have our opinions which are specific to us and how we started out and developed..
any *honestly* intended opinion is right / was right for someone..
we’re none of us wrong.. just different..
pea’s.. i’m off..
d
Ian..:)
i agree with u..
i love facebook…
( got me laid twice…plus i met my losy cousin..)
now about MySpace???
( im afraid of it coz it almost got me married once..and i still dont know how to delete that account either… u see its easy to get in…but they dont let u get out easy…kinda like a heroin dealer..:)
but all jokes apart im with u…
and i agree in a way..
the more exposure the merrier…
peace from europe ( if that is possible from the most war loving continent..)
blood thirsty europe…brrrrrrrr
lost cousin..;0
RAFAL ,
Sorry for the posting under your essay …i was eating too much arugula mixed with ouzo
Kikiki
BURNIANS
“People who have attained things worth having in this world have worked while others have idled, have perservered while others gave up in despair, and have practiced early in life the valuable habits of self-denial, industry, and singleness of purpose.”
Grenville Kleiser (American author 1868-1953)
LOVE you ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL… !!!
P.S Keep it UP…I am with you ,next to you, eating fresh arugula…
Panos have a retsina or 2 for the rest of us…….
happy shooting.
Just been shooting Norfolk Broads for a client. (I know this might make me sound like a contract killer in the states)
Ian
“in general, stock photography is a dead horse which some insist on trying to revive..
photoshelter had such an excellent effort at a new way of doing things.. it was copied i believe.. before it fell under.”
David, a little bit of an over-simplification, don’t you think ?
My average monthly gross is still in a comfortable modest 5-figure range and is derived, almost exclusively, from a rights-managed stock stream
Stock is not the dead horse but is under enormous pressure by the business models of
Flickr and iStock.
It’s not because the content is sub-standard and, if fact, much of the edited content from these sources,
is creatively and commercially superior to many traditional stock libraries but rather that the
vast majority of contributors/participants to both do not need to realize a profit in order to sustain
a viable business. It’s a fact. It’s not their fault, but it is a reality.
The villains, really, are the Getty’s of the world who have massively undervalued this content.
Getty’s istock last week sold over $800,000 in a single day and i would bet my last dollar that
no more than a few of their contributors could even buy a cheap lens with their cut from such
massive sales figures.
The long term advantage, in my opinion, that editorial photographers hold over stock photographers is that, as you mentioned, much of the content that they produce or projects they work on is of a much more
unique nature and not so readily duplicated.
The problem lies in compensation and until some sustainable business model evolves for the web then
I think most non ‘star’ editorial photogs are doomed,at least, in far as careers go.
Amazing, and powerful, content is being presented here, at Burn, and at sites such as
100eyes and The Black Snapper but hardly a nickel is changing hands to finance future projects.
What NOT to LOVE !!!
it’s smells good in here …like BURNed meatballs …kikik
P.S I am the happiest Civilian EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR cause I Count on YOU …all of you !!!
I can’t wait to meet you all in my home …
Imagine this …KATIE, DAVIDB next to JIM drinking coffee with PANOS and IMANTS…MyGRACIE on the sofa next to our PATRICIA with ANTON and SIDNEY …HAIK,HERVE,LASSAL,BOOBB with ERICA …POMARA and SAM with IAN,PETE,
ANDREAC,ROSSY next to AUDREY and JARED by the fireplace and THODORIS ,JOHNY,RAFALthe other JOHNY and DAVIDB the other DAVID and KATHARINA …VIVEKKKKKKKKK
Where are you people …I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I am waiting !!!
Just to clarify…I started posting my photo galleries on PBase four months after I’d bought my first digital SLR and one month after I’d learned how to use it on something other than Auto. That was in November 2006. I still have a zillion galleries on my PBase website and plan to keep it running as long as it continues to cost no more than $23 USD a year. I still post the occasional photo and am close to a good number of photogs I met there. Got together for dinner with one PBase friend while in NYC a few weeks back. Never did make it over to Flickr but have no gripe with any of the photosharing websites. It has served my needs very well indeed.
When I spoke of the importance of having my own more professional-looking photo website, that only came as I prepared to approach publishers with my book project. I think I launched my own website in March of this year. For a relative newcomer to photography like me, any way I can make it clear to potential publishers that I am serious about this work, the better. Yes, they’re most interested in the quality and uniqueness of the work itself, but if they are going to hook up with a photograper and publish her/his book, they want to be sure you’re not a flash-in-the pan who might lose interest and go on to something else. I hope that kind of commitment is what they see when they go to my website.
Patricia
mark – good post.. i’m no expert on stock, so apologies for the simplification..
i guess you do not ‘shoot for stock’ and must have a healthy chunk of photos archived to get such a grand income from it..
my two forrays into it have been photoshelter – 500 snaps, 60 usd
and an agency called axiom – 30 or so snaps, 60 GBP..
it did not work out for me :o)
getty are very poor with the treatment of photographers, and it is going to get worse.. the guardian now claims all commissioned work for it’s own stock, with rights to reproduce at no cost.. everyone is taking what they can using the digital revolution for justification..
good that you mention istock.. you’re right.. if anyone is undervaluing photography it is the stock agencies.. flickr is held up as a figure head, the way mcdonalds is for the anti-capitalists..
royalty free stock and people unaware of the value of a photograph or license are having an effect, and i guess it all comes down to the same thing – rights managed .. doing a business course.. finding out the value of photography is the way forward.. keeping control..
i love that our joni K sells through flickr for 250 a pop, rights managed..
cool boots.
d
ps – civilian.. i had marked you absent for the day.. apologies.. will rectify at once..
WELCOME>>
JIM:
“Everything matters. Every detail matters. Presentation matters as much as it ever did…if you are really serious.”
EXACTLY. Well put.
PARTICIA:
I hated looking on pBase at your images. I was very happy to see your new site.
KATHLEEN:
“But do i want to be Pro? No, i have NO desire to be pro. None, zero, zilch. Zip.”
Then you really are not in the group of photographers that I am talking about. And also if free is the only option for you, you can get a free blog on wordpress.org upload a cool free theme (there are thousands on the internet) and create a very nice site where people can come to you can comment on your work on your site.
Ian..;)
yep yep… cheap greek wine will do…
i feel guilty being in the blog for so much…
i need to be lighter…
like the movie big fat greek wedding…
i was too intense for someone that chilling in greece…
unfair for the greeks too…
i need to change..
i brought the freeway stress in a country that still
has the original hybrids ( donkeys ) on the streets…
now about shooting here..
i feel like davin now…
everyone stares…
hard to blend…
but i will find the way…:)
ian, big hug my friend…
PATRICIA: Sorry. Feeling dyslexic today. Did not mean to misspell your name. I need a nap.
Panos..ne ne ne metaxa.
I spent 5 years as a kid in cyprus. happy days.
Ian
metaxa, mythos, greek amstel,
gyro pita, souvlaki, endless gossip…
what not to love…
( ps: unfortunately the girls arent as hot as i thought or remembered…
maybe next stop should be Bucharest… according to our Davin.. everyone is
a supermodel over there… ahhhhhhhh not over here… no, no no….:((((((
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKVbgkfFygY
i said no, no, no
PETE,
feeling dyslexic …for a day …hmmm…I feel like this since I was a baby …:)))
DAVIDB,
Oime,I am busy trying to go through the BURNing posts …:))) Tor CAPA -hugs.
I am here and there …eating arugula (organic) and drinking water…liver is kicking …
PANOS,
your key is waiting …bring and some VENICE images for the magnetic wall…
KATIE,
follow your family like MyGracie…LOVE …
P.S METAXA as IAN suggests …VIVA!!! What am I smoking …hmmm….!!!
PLEASE, drink with moderation …the Universe can tolerate BUT not much …
Haven’t (can’t) read all of this so forgive me if redundant, but it seems to me that those who can’t afford a snazzy site but want to work can do well by setting up a free photoshelter site – speed, clarity and a sense of professionalism do count when you are asking an editor to spend his or her time considering your work – and you for their publication.
Civi…
smoke anything but, canadian skunky weed…
try Mendocino…
if u wanna stay positive;)
Welcome back JOE !!!
long time …we need update …
PANOS,
I am going to Bucharest too…Wait for meeeeeee…Davin , we are coming over …
EMCD
Another good idea. Forgot that Photoshelter offers a free site. It is limited, but a good start.
joe said:
and don’t kid yourself, HCSP would have banned many of the members on Burn ages ago …
…………………………………………………………………………….
not only banned, but also prosecute , torture, waterboard, abduct…
All ,
check the latest photo from Vivek on conversesrouges.com
its on topic..( photos from abducted HSCP members that happened to disagree with their administrators)
:)
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/28/middle-east-democracy/#comments
Panos, I can see how Joe, Bryan and I would have been keen on waterboarding you! :-D
On the other hand, flickr it’s just a massive thing. Nobody can just diss it like that. Probably a quarter or half of the photographers we’ll talk about in the future are now or have been there at some point. I think that the whole thing is just starting. Now it has been brewing for a while, and the first photographers and curators are getting out of it into the world. Those exhibitions, books, etc. will have nothing to do with flickr, but flickr has just been the yeast in the process. You’re not looking at it to find the best of the photographers that you already know. You’re looking at it to try to figure out who out of those millions of users you’ll know in a decade.
(But I mean, flickr is just a thing like camera clubs used to be fifty years ago. I bet that more than one good photographer got into it through a rather plain camera club.)
But who has time to sift through a billion photos looking for a future success?
Panos, I can see how Joe, Bryan and I would have been keen on waterboarding you! :-D
laughing…
big hug Joni…
u know im kiddin…
hope to see your essay here soon…
last night was too intense…
i just took Ian’s advice about retsina…and it seems that its working…
:))))
…and Joni..
just to prove bob right about how Hypocritical i am…
…if u guys let me “play” and include me in your next HSCP
exhibition ( even with one photo ).. i promise to reconsider
my flickr-hating and work on my flickr-phobia…
what do u think..?
do i stand a chance??
( not being sarcastic…)
big hug
HCSP…typo
I just saw this on APHOTOEDITOR.com….
http://make-art-notwar.tumblr.com/post/203737249/milkchugger-lavahead-bgclements-via-sammwich-oh
I have no idea why I think that is funny….. (grin)
Really though. If you have not seen this site… check out the archives.. there is some funny stuff there.
Kathleen
“And right out of the gate i doubt any single one of you could have afforded a website.”
Well, if you mean getting someone to make it for you I could agree, although there are cheaper web designers than others, but if you mean just paying for the web space it doesn’t make sense. I just paid the yearly rent for mine… 220NOK which is about 39 dollars. I consider that’s worth every coin.
So many speak of flickr in the same manner as their first lover in life………. maybe a a lover from deviant would have been more fun…………. then again a nice smug smug would have sufficed.
am time to choof off to the darkies and watch chemicals transcend paper
JKARANKA,
“flickr it’s just a massive thing.” …MASSIVE …hmmm…Am I in the wrong place???
cause my middle name is mass…Shall I take my dyslexic farting posts to meet other Civilians ???
P.S BUT you are all so unique and I found out that the visual stimulation can slow down the aging of my brain… yeap…VIVA BURN !!!
panos–
this will be quick. when it comes to the hypocricy of emotion, i am the avatar. you are right. from the beginning, i have over-personalized everything. i have (as you pointed out) left/comeback/left/comeback. that was usually born of from reaction to overpersonalization. i never ‘quit’ burn (meaning, not supporting david, anton, the photographers). i have always meant i ‘quit’ writing/arguing/getting involved in the emotions on online discussion/conversations. i have been foolish and will assuredly be foolish (and hypocritical) once again. i have never ‘quit’ my support of burn, not once. i’ve tried since the inception to support by a)writing, b) encouraging photographers to submit, c) editing, d) talent scouting, e) promoting, f)talking to other photogs/editors and continually promoting behind the scenes and in my life as a working photographer/writer. I have made so many mistakes about getting too involved emotionally with the online personality and online behavior: this always instigated my ‘quiting’. i always felt (maybe i was wrong) that after i ‘left’, i was letting david, anton and the rest of the crew down: i felt guilty and i wanted to help and be perceived as the person i am in real life, not the ‘bob black’ that people create. also, i SUPPORT 100% Rafal’s essay and the use of flickr for discussion/photography/groups. in fact, i see Burn no differently, in truth: as a vehicle to promote photography. The only devaluation of work happens when a photographer devalues their own work or the work of others. that is why i got angry at you: because i see poisonous language (‘bad day for burn’) as essentially hateful and hurtful, period.
as for the behind the scenes personality issue that you wrote about, all i can say is that, yes there is no place in this here and that was my fault for implying any of that. it is clear that we all have ideas about each other and they’ve been wronged and that’s life on the web. what matters, in truth, is a simpler thing. do we care for in truth. each of us can answer that ourselves, as it doesnt matter how others perceive/talk/write about us…. i believe in living by actions more than words, thought words (especially when stuff gets told between people rather than the source) get lost in their meaning. I am sorry if i took too personal you attack against flickr and what appeared to be an attack against rafal and the idea of Burn showing that essay….
I have accepted all things sad about me and all consequences that have come from this. And i have written in public and private (sometimes happily sometimes painfully)all i felt, including anger and loving heart-felt apologies. my anger yesterday was born from something simple: i got involved and i should not have. i do not understand how so much spitting gets tolerated on one hand and condemned on another. but, ti’s not important. I wish you all the best Panos, really. I still have not learned well enough to focus on the matter at hand, as primary: family, work, friends.
if i had a $$ for the ‘quit’ we would all be rich…if i had $$ for all the stuff people write me, we’d be rich…maybe it’s better to resist the temptation to judge people born from things which are not real…
without anger, just fatique, i wish you the best. and if i remain silent from here on out (we’ll see, as M would say), that doesn’t mean my support of this venture or of david, anton or anyone else was a lie, it just means that given limited time and energy and shifting priorities, supporting burn and david’s venture can be better accomplished in other ways…in other words: i must learn to keep my big mouth shut from here on out….
all the best
u know i love u bobb
u just hurt my feelings last night..
thats all..
i apologize too..
onwards
big hug from grecolandia or the land of not so good looking women..
:)
VIVA BOBBY !!!
There are not bad days for BURN !!! Hugs to Marina and Dima !!!
BB, I missed your 800 words posts …LOVE
P.S BURNIANS, if I had a $$$ …I would have bought all your photographs …
Mark T; I agree with what you say re; David B’s“in general, stock photography is a dead horse which some insist on trying to revive..
Royalty free (and Corbis and Getty) is the reason stock has diminished. If you are taking cliché pics of white sands, palm trees, blue seas or dramatic sunsets then you’re stuffed. An AD can pick up a royalty free cd of those generic pics for next to nothing.
However; if you are a bit of a specialist and can supply deep coverage your pics still sell (rights managed NOT royalty free) and there is still a way of earning income. I am still with NHPA in the UK and a NZ agency back from when I was shooting nature.
Even NHPA has been bought up by Photoshot, but thank god it was not Corbis or Getty because they still pay 50/50! You have to be really careful picking an agency/ies that suits your work.
I haven’t sent much through Photoshot yet because I am still deciding whether to send serious work (Timor etc) through to them because I don’t want it to disappear into a vast flood of images (compared to Panos Pictures etc). However Photoshot has deliberately kept every library as a stand alone library to highlight their different collections.
I’ve no problem sending travel/lifestyle work through them though. I’m in a different position compared to other NHPA shooters because I don’t do much nature work anymore. For the other NHPA everything went on as usual, the only difference was that NHPA was owned by someone else.
Yet every quarter payments still come through, usually when the mortgage is due and the bank account is empty. Sure they are not huge, but that is my fault from not shooting enough stock. Of course the UK/NZ currency exchange rates help too!
I’m actually going to get back into doing more stock work and try to lighten up the writing, specifically so I can do more shooting. Of course many of the images I shoot for my articles usually end up in stock too.
David B, I do see where you’re coming from, but I think there are ways to work around the difficulties. E.g I’m often out in the NZ farming back country shooting/writing mag work, and there is always a reasonable photo library demand for these types of images. And like I mentioned before, I am actually going to shoot more stock! How’s that for being contrary! :-)
Just my 2c worth!
Cheers
panos—
thank you, i apologize (check ur email)…it wasn’t your ‘spit’ as much as my own exhaustion/fatique (lots cooking in my life at the moment)…as i promised Marina, i ‘quit’ being ‘bob black’ ;)))))….i am sorry for getting too emotional and bitchy…
hugs
CIVI–you my friend can have my pics for free….:))))….if i ever meet you/find out who u r, i’ll send u a print…ur choice…free….and the book: free too ;)))…
ok, gotta finish a 3,000 word essay for grant, due friday…and teach….
runnig
hugs
b
Bob; Thanks for all that help you gave me regarding the Holga a while ago. Got the camera, scanner etc and everything all go now. Cheers for that!
Now, I can go to sleep…:)))
BOBBY,3000 word essay …your wish is GRANTed !!! may the spirits of the writing fairy stays with you :)))
0)
P.S goodnight from beautiful Greece …I count on you…ALL of YOU
KATIE, MyGRACIE,PANOS, DAVIDB,ROSSY,IMANTS…ALL …I am farting all the way to bed …
oups,the bar has been raised…
Ross
I just quickly looked through your galleries at Lightstalkers
If you’re looking for alternate editorial/stock representation I’d advise
you take a look at Aurora (www.auroraphotos.com)
They’re small. You’re not going to get rich but they’re one of the good guys
and you’ve got some material that would fit nicely in their collection.
“…I am farting all the way to bed …
oups,the bar has been raised…”
Please close the door
Mark;
Cheers for that, will do… The only thing that worries me about Photoshot is that they have become so big, so quick. Otherwise they are reputable and have bought some of the UK’s best agencies. I’ve always liked Panos Pictures ethos too.
11:24pm in grecolandia too,,,
time to put my jet lagged head in bed…
yesterday we all worked hard as usual to prove
that we didnt get the LUCIE AWARD for free…
we exercised freedom of speech and sense of humor…
we hate democracy but we still here..
we pretend we hate america but nobody wants to move to iraq..
laughing…
Burn is stupid, panos is an asshole but nobody gives HCSP or bryanF( OBH=original burn hater )
an award…not even a nomination… i was on my knees begging joni a minute ago to accept me
on flickr and all i got is an invitation for WATERBOARDING instead…
laughing
laughing
( joni i still love u though…:)
let it be…
but what a beautiful end after the shitstorm… when i realized that bobb is still my friend and
vice versa…
big hug y’all
and remember: Davin wasnt that wrong when he was describing the rudeness and the stare syndrom that defines the modern “balcan-ians”..
ok..time out?
*watching Bob and Panos kiss and make up*…awww…ain´t that just great! You guys!!! You´re both so exuberant and get so hot under the collar. You´re like two old oxen out in the field wh´ve chewed their cud together since forever decide to have a fight. They rear up and charge each other and act all aggressive until one of them just kinda wanders off in defeat and the next day, there they are again, chewing their cud like the placid old pals they´ve always been. But tell you what, it´s a great example when two tough guys can make peace in public like this..i respect you both for that!
PETE, BJARTE
I think the problem is that i don´t know what the real costs of a website are. I heard it costs about $1,000 to buy one of those template designs from NeonSky, LiveBooks or Qufoto. And that for me is very expensive since film and processing eat up a lot of my budget as it is. It might actually be cheaper for me to pay someone here in CR to build me a site because labor is cheaper but it has to be in English and has to be seriously clean and functional. Bjarte, i didn´t know hosting could be as cheap as $39 a year! Who do you use for that? Does anyone else have any helpful hints for me?
Pete thanks for the blog idea. it´s a great one but i am at the point that i would really like to have a website if i can afford it. I´ve been at this for ten years now so it´s kind of put-up or shut-up for me.
PATRICIA
As someone new to websites, how did you do it?
Thanks and best to all, especially CIVILIAN!
kathleen
CIVILIAN
goodnight, sweet person..dream soft or dream hard ;) but dream long and well!
zzzzzzz
ur katie
Katie; Have a look at Photoshelter….
Ross..
ok, i will, i keep hearing everyone talk about it..will check it out now..thx!
Kat..:)
its all publicity tricks…
for the Oscars ….
laughing…
but anyway im glad the last night’s shitstorm
is over.. it got out of hand for sec..
phew…
i hope at least it was entertaining…
exhausted…
big hug
out
plz take the steering wheel over…
Kathleen
I use http://www.one.com for the web space. I could teach you the little I know about html-coding if you want. It’s very, very basic, but at least enough to build my own site. All I used for mine was photoshop, arachnophilia (html, free) and filezilla (ftp, free). Please let me know if I can help you more. My e-mail is bjedvard at yahoo.no
Flash is of course the top of the cake where we all want to get to, but I’m just not willing to pay anyone for getting me “up there”… yet!
Kathleen
I saw the website of one of Burn’s photo essayists, liked the look of it and went there. I’m happy with it. They had a good choice of flash templates — which is what I wanted — the site itself is very user-friendly and their support folks are great. You can have a free trial too, which I did. Can’t recall exactly how much it cost me to put the site up for the first year, but it was nowhere near $1000 USD. I use
http://www.foliolink.com
Patricia
BJARTE and PATRICIA
I´m working right now so no time to respond in depth but i printed out both your comments and put them with the other info i have been keeping that poeople have suggested along the line about slide shows, audio, etc..also, want to take a look at Photoshelter because that might be a good interim thing..thanks both of you and Pete and Ross as well for their suggestions. You are all great!
PANOS
And the Oscar for best actor goes tooooo Panos..er, no, Bob, mmm…no, Panos…oh crap..i think Bob had the edge..wait..no, i have a better idea..the Nobel Peace Prize goes to them both as a TEAM!
you too..sleep well..manana is another day :)
now, for me, back to work!
best
kathleen
db
“top priority”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM-VLp1IPto
turn it up…
jim
“I think your thinking is pure fantasy.” – i like that – thanks – a good imagination is key to creativity ;)
i am not suggesting everyone use flicker to get the next Prada campaign but if your starting out it’s too easy to fall into the ‘flash’ trap… as david has reiterated it’s the quality of your images where you should putting you fantasy… top priority!
MarkT
I’m not surprised at your stock success, killer stuff on your site.
2:24am
grecolandia…
jet lag just knocked on my door….
with a song inspired by sam
hi
i’m a notable hip hop blogger, i’m writing a piece about busta rhymes. does anyone have a picture that i can use? i can’t pay you but i can link to your flickr stream.
yep.. u can steal from here..
although you are 24 hours late …
laughing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxfUYl6Og8&feature=channel
( amazing sense of humor )
one more 4U sexito :)
sexito..:)
the cure 4 your insomnia here=nailbiting
click here:
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/07/hello-all/#comments
its funny how many folks stay awake in the middle of the night,
wasting their time reading my shit though…
thank god most of them are “girls”…
i should also link my “myspace” …
hold on ladies… its coming up
hey sexito..:))
more Busta Rhymes photos for u to steal here:
MYSPACE… click on “photos”
http://www.myspace.com/panosfotografia
Bennito,:)
here is my blog that needed flickr as a storage..
(as discovered by our detective mr.db)
at least i tried something before reject it…but i guess trying does not apply to your life
mr bennito the sarcastico
http://panajournal.blogspot.com/
BEN ROBERTS LOOK…
another great photo from flickr dedicated to u…with love..
u can use it immediately…
just send me your flickrmail so i can email it to u…
( yeah i know , u regretted your retardation already but dont take it personal..it was meant to be..)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerspacecowpanos/2589631551/
i thought my joke was quite good.
:-(
actually it was..:))))
cmon now , im teasing…
i just play a little rough…
ben ,
big hug…
( im just jet lagging somewhere in greece… not fun..thanks for playing )
peace
and to get on the serious side though…
im glad i never deleted that free flickr account
coz so many memories would get lost…
for example i used to have another blog 5 years ago..
something like photofarts or fotofarts or something like that
but i cant find it anymore…i keep googling and googling..
lost memories… aint cool….
as a memory storage…totally agree… none wrong with flickr..
or any other medium..( not being sarcastic )..
ahhhhhh memories..
its like money… u never know when u gonna need’em..
have a great night ben
:)
“its funny how many folks stay awake in the middle of the night, wasting their time reading my shit though…”
Don’t discriminate against us Souther Hemisphere-ites (don’t think thats a word but it sounds ok!) It’s broad daylight here!! :-))
Hey all, not sure if I should be posting this sort of thing on Burn or what,
anyhow.
Currently, I’m selling my Nikon 14-24mm f/2.4 lens on eBay. Not that I want to, but it’s a lens I use rarely and I’m hurting for money as I thought I was covered through the rest of the year. But I guess I’m not. And the lens is the most valuable thing I own that I can part with. If it doesn’t sell there, is anyone interested in it? It has 6 days left on the sale… Unless anyone has work I could do for them!!!
Email me if you have questions Jason@jasonhouge.com
Ross…
u gave me a new perspective on my miserable life…
it is indeed broad day light.. this is not insomnia i suffer from..
it is day light out there.. somewhere.. its just my eyes dont see it plus
everybody else around this town is asleep.. but i suffer no insomnia…
its broad daylight out there…
thank u
i owe u
i feel way better now…
Panos;
I was watching the news here the other day and it featured an 8 year old girl who had terminal cancer. All she wanted to do before she passed away was go to the zoo. Mum was broke and of course the town rallied around to raise the funds etc.
That type of story always give me a reality check when I find myself whingeing and whining. I’m healthy (so far…), have most of my faculties relatively intact (some of my friends may beg to differ), can earn a living without having to scrounge around a garbage dump and have so far lived 38 years longer than that poor child will…
Each morning when you wake up check your pulse. Every day above the ground has to be a good day right? Life’s good, make the most of it because no-one gets out alive….
“Even when my feet are placed in footprints I made previously, and even if I stand there at precisely the same time I did the day before, the angle of light will have altered slightly and the sky will be deeper blue or paler with dust. And I will be a day older. So every time I gaze upon the whole, it will be from a unique perspective. And each of my unique perspectives will be different from each of yours”
Freeman Patterson.
And I know you love Natalie so this should cheer you up! :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0VWbQBw-aE
Cheers :-))
Ross…
sweet:)))))))))))))))
42DD: http://www.viceland.com/wp/2009/10/you-dont-know-enough-about-art-in-romania/
Ross
There are some people here..right now you and GORDON come to mind first, i mean besides CIVILIAN, that ALWAYS have these wonderfully warm, not intrusive, but just genuinely nice personalities..Your goodness just comes through your words, in simple and unassuming ways. Pure class.
Just had to say that..
Now goodnight..have been working so hard (at work, not photography) that my eyes are crossed..
Best to you, Ross..and also Gordon and Civilian wherever they are!
Kathleen
Jason
I am really sorry you have to sell your treasures to make it through the end of the year. Your post just sounded really sad. I hope you get a good price for your lens and what i hope most of all is that you don´t end up missing it too much. I also hope that you get so much work you can buy it back again.
HugZ
Kathleen
BOB….
I most appreciate the comments from you and David.
David adds so much to any discussion he participates in as is well obvious. He often cut’s to the chase, bringing a clarity to a position.
You on the other hand, philosophize, think in twists and circles, articulate so beautifully and poetically, making it clear that nothing, almost nothing, is as perceived, can and is, multilayered.
To always hold back on judgment as the intention, the thing to be learned and understood can often be hidden by shadows and only revealed by reference. I think you and David are born to teach and wonderfully, from quit different perspectives. So don’t leave as I assume we all know deep in our hearts that its impossible to deliver such thoughtfull analysis without it being heartfelt and therefore that must include rage as much as communion.
I had no knowledge of you or David before I discovered BURN. So I didn’t know either of your reputation’s before six months back, and still don’t really. i only now know David is a member of Magnum and now recognize some of his photograph’s from my casual browsing over the years, his style. You, I still don’t know your work, which I’m a bit ashamed to admit now, so this will now spur me on to look out for your images. I’m IT illiterate..google?. My point being that its your words, and Davids, alone that are forming my opinion. No history, just the present. I’m sure anyone whose truly interested feels the same.
http://photofarts.blogspot.com/
i found it
i found it
i found it…
my very first blog which i thought it was “lost” in space..neglected all alone…
PHOTOFARTS
PHOTOFARTS
click above
love the Callistemon citrinus
….ive always preferred pepsi myself.
Evening all. I’ve been reading everything. It’s been so lively lately. :-) I’ve nothing to add. I will miss reading Burn daily when I am on the road (in two weeks!). The convo re flickr, websites and stock photography has been interesting. I particularly liked David B’s perspective. All of these options do my head in though. It’s overwhelming trying to think about how I am going to work this out for myself. I’ve known about Alamy for months and have been intending to use it as my stock site. I’ve been putting off uploading something to get started since I’ve had my 40D – (it wasn’t worth trying with my earlier India pics since they were only taken on a compact). Does anyone have a point of view about Alamy for editorial ie (travel) shots? Would I be better off using an Australian based stock library for pictures taken here? I am not interested in LonelyPlanetImages as they have some ridiculous rules for their photographers.
no more BUSTA RHYMES photos…
but here is 50 cent ( s ) next to a penny…
( not 4 sale )
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/29/50cent-a-penny/#respond
alamy need huge file sizes.. that’s about all i know :o)
not sure how the market is for travel photography – it’s well worth getting a free photoshelter account and reading through their resources.. they have good guidance for web building, stock.. all sorts.. in the blogs..
the whole flickr thing is blown out of proportion here – uttery.. don’t sweat it andrea.
shoot what you enjoy and put it where you like seeing it..
people have got work and made sales just sending the slideshow which lightstalkers provides free..
d
CIVILIAN…
this is it..
im driving north tomorrow..
fuck athens…its like bucharest full of ugly women…
u promised me the key..
where the f**k r u????
im out of dough… no money for roach motels plus no motel6 in grecolandia…
reveal yourself …
help your poor american comrade…
we helped u beat the nazis twice ( WWI & WWII )…
now your turn to help us out…
all i need is free food, free home…and 200 euros…
Am i asking too much …
:))))))
David there is a endless stream of vegies, herbs, monuments and something different.
Kathleen,
I have very little website experience, but you might want to check out SimpleViewers products:
http://www.simpleviewer.net/products/
I have seen SimpleViewer and AutoViewer in use on a number of websites, and it is available in a free edition :-)
Jason,
We haven’t corresponded in a while, but I hope that you doing well despite your $$$ troubles. Foe what it’s worth, sending good vibes and mojo your way!
Typo “for” – need more coffee…
Cheers David.
The files Alamy wants are big but tif files are big. A 14MB DNG files converts to around 50MB as a tif. I’m not going to store tif files.
When I say travel, I don’t mean resorts and glossy stuff. I mean standard lonely planet type fare. And yeah, I will just try to do my own thing. One good tip that keeps coming through on Burn.
AndreaC,
Alamy is having a rough time at the moment competing with micro stock at the mo. There is a Bhz ranking for pics which is really complex, I think it is a combination of keywords etc. You have to keep this value up for your images to appear high up in the rankings, eg on the first page a picture buyer would see. Alot of my pics are on Alamy through a library i submit to. I average about 2p every 500 years. The keywording is done by the library and every now and again there is a spike of image sales when the keywording is updated.
Also you will be a tiny cog in a huge ocean of professional and amature photogs.
Good luck.
cheers
ian
hello ALL..
this is again,
panos the insomniac
( jet lagged ) from grecolandia…
Straight to the point:
you all probably noticed my latest misunderstandings / confusion with my
good friend bobby black… we talked some craziness to each other here on burn,
hurt each other,
but soon after
we apologized and made up… this of course happened through behind the scenes
emails, talking, explaining…etc..we both realized that friendship was more
important than quick “victories”…
bob is a philosopher TEACHER and PHOTOGRAPHER
with tremendous respect in the art world and in the respected photographic
circles around the world…
if one of us should away from burn go that shouldnt be bob…that would be a tremendous loss…
Anyway ,
to make the long story shorter… after lots of talking and on & off emailing ( with bob ) for the last 24 hours our relationship
has been repaired as much as possible…( of course there is always more space for development )….but
now… i have a message for you ALL….
a message from BOB to all BURN READERS over here..
and it goes like this:
MESSAGE FROM BOB BLACK TO BURN READERS:
“burn note:
hello all, just a quick note. i have to go on a serious writing hibernation for the next 4 days to complete a writing essay on my blindness for the CBC so i’ll be absent for some time. i want again to apologize to panos and readers for my outbursts and overly emotional reaction to the flicker/la familia discussion. as panos pointed out correctly, at least 4 times since burn’s inception i wrote that i would ‘quit.’ please know that by that i meant that i would not write or react to web ideas/arguments. i never meant that i would quit my support of david and anton and burn and all of the people here. as a photographer published here, i believe in the importance of burn and all the work being done. hell, i was thankful to have been given a forum for my photographs and my writing, as well as the work of my wife, not to mention all the stuff david has so generously bestowed on me and my family: the epf finalist, the look3 slideshow, the writing, the once editor-at-large responsibility and most importantly the friendships. For those who know me in real life (david, panos, erica, marc davidson, mike berube, lance, gina martin, patricia, the entire toronto and nyc crew), i hope you know that this weird ‘bob black’ on line aint the real cat. like many others, i’ve been through a lot of difficult stuff in the last 6 months, having nothing to do with phtoography. in this way, on the web, i tend to overpersonalize and oversentamentalize all. it’s part of my nature too: to care alot and to feel/experience things pretty emotionally. it’s made me the photographer and writer i am and also the husband and father and friend i am: to give all of myself. with that comes the stupid overpersonalization. for now, i must re-focus all energy on my wife and son, as for too long i’ve been sidetracked by other family illnesses. i owe them my attention and joy. ironically, if in real-life i were the cat you see here, i’d probably have been divorced and disowned long ago ;))). funny, in real life im actually very calm and even-keeled (sort of ;)) ). anyway, please know David and Anton than i never meant ‘quit’ as quit you guys. each of us when were are stressed or have too much on our plates we say things born of exhaustion and confusion, it’s that simple. anyway, panos and i have talked and i take responsibility for having gotten upset, as i’d gotten upset withothers in the past. im too old and i hope to thoughtful most of the time to blame anyone but myself. this web world is a weird place and im trying to figure out my own relationship to it. for now: if i am silent please please do not think it’s an indication of something about david, anton, burn or anyone else. i have a family to attend and i must complete my writing project and my Asian Memory photo series (a small section of which i was fortunate enough to have david choose as part of the epf 2 years ago): i hope to make my family proud and my friends happy once i unveil that 4 year work. but, though i might get an oscar for wackout job here on line, anyone that knows me in reality knows that face-to-face, over wine or whiskey, im a not a drama queen…ask andrew b, who i had the great pleasure of sharing wine with…anyway, thanks and i apologize to all if anything i’ve done reduced at all the perception of burn or my loyalty to david, anton and the burn crew….this mysterious thing called living and experssing…who knows…ok, off for a hibernation…raise high the roofbeam ya’ll…..bob…ps. peter grant: thank u so much for the kind and thoughtful and caring words. they mean alot tome…while most of my work is not on line, there are some things out there…lighstalkers, still-dancing, burn…and i think at the gallery in toronto who’d exhibited my work over the last 7 years…if not, well, i hope im a better guy than just the pictures; ))))))))))….cheers,
running…..
b
Justin, Kathleen, thank you for the positive waves! I don’t mind selling this honkin’ big lens. I wouldn’t if I didn’t have to. The sad part is, I occasionally shoot weddings, and next year I have more than I’ve ever done. And this lens is about what I make from a couple normal weddings… Boooo. Well it’ll do I suppose. :)
imants – right on :o)
andrea
lonely planet tend to seek through stock agencies, yet are good if you want to get in touch with them..
they used a couple of my photos – in the nepal and amsterdam guides i think.. nothing exciting though and they tend to lean toward cliche and places-to-visit.
i really don’t know where there might be a market for travel, as such, anymore.. everyone has photographers native to the countries, which i think is a great thing, and although i’m sure it is possible to make money i’m not sure how..
BOBUS
i need ot get involved with still dancing.. i love the idea and orgin of it.. infact will write to stefan over the weekend.. feel bad that i have yet to do so..
ian is right – keywording is most important.. 10 or 15 per image..
it’s a long, labour intensive and very dull way to spend time.. which might not bring in much return at all..
the best way – actually the only way i have ever sold stock – has been through word of mouth, approaches and sending people directly what you see they might like to use.
Jason
I wouldn’t feel too bad about selling the ultra-wide. In my experience, the more extreme the lens, the less you tend to use it. (and the more money you likely paid for it.)
I’ve got a bunch of fancy gear, but my personal work is done with a $500 Rebel and either the kit lens or a little 28mm 2.8. Any entry level DSLR with its kit lens these days is an amazing machine, the stuff of science fiction only a few years ago. The most important piece of equipement we own is between our ears.
Has this become the mea culpa channel? Enough already! Good grief.
Kathleen
Thankyou for the kind words m’Dear. Lovin’ you too. Be good to yourself.
kathleen
there are stacks of free web sbuilder on line.. bodo uses one actually and his photos are great.. the ‘porters’ series he has been working oon has some cracking shots.
actually – BJARTE – what was the one i pointed the class too? that was bodos.. was it webby or something?
also bjarte – flash is a piece of piss with slideshow pro.. actually you don’t need flash to make flash slideshows..
in fact you can build a website in photoshop.. it has templates.. very easy.. then just buy a webname and host, which as bjatre points out is cheap as chips, and you’re away.
what i have found building my site is that html is anything but scary once you get into it.. if you can get hold of dreamweaver it has tutorials.. you’re sorted to make whatever you want.
_____________
someone earlier said that it was a shame the conversation ventered around flickr and not the phtoographs and it made me think – thats the problem .. with flickr and with rafals presentation.. jim said diluted and i can see what he means.. one or two of the photos are really very good.. but put a poor photo next to a good one and the effect is lost.
also
_____________
imants said there is a magnum style and i’ve been thinking about that.
i think there is an ‘easy to copy style’ which fits what you said imants.. magnum or not, there is a wealth of material coming out of collages which follow tight aesthetic rules which make good photos.. good looking photos.. portraits framed with large negative space around the sides and top.. environmental portraits of people without a smile square to the camera.
what i like to hope is that there will be a renaissance of photos which are difficult to take.. not for access sake or for the sake of technical expertise, although they figure.. but mostly for the moment.. catching something.. seeing something which others have missed..
in part it is flickr which has shown us what is easy to take and what is not.. depending on the brand of tea you like, it is easy to start finding what is easy and what is more of a challenge..
this is a craft, whatever brand of photography you like, rather than an exercise in mimicry.. and while mimicry may win competitions and gain respect it is not advancing anything..
form and shape and moment..
keep on.
david
…. and feeling….
i love it when you say good grief jim..
a much underused pairing which takes the edge of a harder intention.
here you go kathleen…
uttery free starter website where you do not have to worry about hosting, fees, webdesign.. it’s all there..
http://subhrajitbasu.weebly.com/
this is bodos site.. scroll to the bootom to build your own.. it’s not the ideal, and pete nor jim will book you, but for the sake of avoiding flickr it’s great.
if you do not have money and are keen to get an online presence go for it.. you could have a website by tomorrow morning..
and show us :o)
any other good suggestions for free website?
d
David
No, I was thinking “Flash” as in “Adobe Flash”. I would love to learn it, but it would probably take too much time away from my photography. But then again, there are many things that take too much time away from my photography… so what the heck. Goal for 2010: Learn Adobe Flash.
I remember you pointed us to weebly. Never checked it out. Didn’t need to!
Discovered this lovely video today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=866YVD2_DRk
There is something very photogenic about forests. About half of all my photographic ideas take place in forests. I ought to live in a forest. For a year. That would be neat.
Lightroom 2 with Slide Show Pro plugged in makes doing a web site with photos dead easy and very slick. No knowledge of flash needed.
ross :o)
self pity is a killer..just as too much kindness can kill..
i had the luck to meet and travel with a terminal stomach caner sufferer once.. we met on the plane and ended up splitting hotel costs for a week or so in 1997..
i have my worries, as everyone does.. we all have our worries.. demons.. ill events which project themselves into our lives and alter our future without our consent..
what makes a difference is how we look on what comes into our lives.. how we adapt and whther we choose to use what happens to us or disregard what happens to us.. bleat on about it on get along with it..
patricia.. reimer.. two of the people who have been kind enough to share their quite real tribulations.. probably without the motivation of allowing us to take comfort, but nontheless offering us all comfort at the same time.
your quote again
“Even when my feet are placed in footprints I made previously, and even if I stand there at precisely the same time I did the day before, the angle of light will have altered slightly and the sky will be deeper blue or paler with dust. And I will be a day older. So every time I gaze upon the whole, it will be from a unique perspective. And each of my unique perspectives will be different from each of yours”
Freeman Patterson.
everyone here who thinks they have problems – think on this.
relative reality dictates that none of our problems are greater than anothers.. to one the grass needing a cut is just as bad to another whos skin hurts.. there is a point in life where we take responsibility for our position in life and we choose to use it and capitalize on our suffering, which we perceive to be greater than anothers, or we deal with it and see that we are all feeling our suffering, relatively, to the same degree.. and connect on ‘a level’ playing field..
thanks to the way this group here formed there is an honesty and openness which has the power to redress our personal self pity.. bring us out into the real world and take photos.
we have our reimer and pat..
i met a magnum photographer this summer who only seemed to be able to shake hands with his left side.. so.. what are you going to say is stopping you? how will you expliane your malevolence, self pity or laziness?
excuses are one of the most common barriers to producing a good body of work.. you know..
d
“form and shape and moment”
What happened to “shapes, layers, moments”? :)
THE BEST advice I ever got during studying.
bjarte – i mean’t adobe flash :o)
see you in november and we’ll struggle with the beast..
if you can get ahold of slideshowpro.. all will be well.. you’ll be blown away.. and remember it’s only scary because it’s unknown..
i would suggest downloading software through bit torrents, but i would not encourage breaking the law and slideshow pro is pretty cheap..
will be able to sort you with SSP and flash if you bring a computer..
by the way – is alex coming? you’re welcome to our spare room.. two beds..
d
and bjarte – download skype and add me – bophoto is my skype name..
PAT – sorry i missed you.. busy busy but will look for you tomorrow..
rebuilding my website, funnily enough…
haha – sometimes i forget my teaching notes :o)
you know.. the walk into collage was not really long enough to plan a lesson..
haha – sometimes i forget my teaching notes :o)
you know.. the walk into collage was not really long enough to plan a lesson.. JOKE
my old course leader told me shapes, layers, moments,, and during the most testing commissions.. or when i have been nervous because i am alone in a venue in argentina and the guy behind me has just been bottled.. it’s seriously been a mantra my feeble brain has clung to..
“Jim Powers
October 29, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Lightroom 2 with Slide Show Pro plugged in makes doing a web site with photos dead easy and very slick. No knowledge of flash needed.”
WOW :)
this discussion BURNs.
@Rafal, I really like what you did as curator and now it all makes sense to me.
bjarte..
you know..
i never really got my head that far around electronic music, with the exception of the masters.. amon tobin.. squarepusher.. aphex.. liddel.. all good people..
i’m just a photographer working within electronic music.. you know.. panos’ hero nactwey never killed anyone.. he just looked at it with unrivaled passion..
dig this.. then seek out more mclaughlin.. you’ll be rewarded… :o)
thomas – occasionally the platitudes and bullshit give way to unfettered discussion..
i think rafal was as much poking the bigoted as he was showing some snaps..
be a regular..
David Bowen —
“someone earlier said that it was a shame the conversation ventered around flickr and not the phtoographs and it made me think – thats the problem .. with flickr and with rafals presentation.. jim said diluted and i can see what he means.. one or two of the photos are really very good.. but put a poor photo next to a good one and the effect is lost.”
But wouldn’t that be almost everyone’s essay? Some really good ones next to some others that don’t pack the same punch.
Why is it diluted because of where it comes from? Rafal had his work cut out for him, the LFA pool is chock full of good stuff.
I just wonder if an edit of Burn’s stuff was put up on another site would the good be diluted by the weaker ones… or would we want it to be taken at face value for what it is — an introduction to a community of photographers. That the group is on Flickr really doesn’t matter…
“But wouldn’t that be almost everyone’s essay? Some really good ones next to some others that don’t pack the same punch. ”
absolutely
it’s not diluted because of where it comes from, but for a small mind, narrow view and some bigotry..
“I just wonder if an edit of Burn’s stuff was put up on another site would the good be diluted by the weaker ones… or would we want it to be taken at face value for what it is — an introduction to a community of photographers. That the group is on Flickr really doesn’t matter…”
yups, yups, yups, of course..
the lunatics have taken over the asylum.. and it’s mcdonalds and wal-mart who are to blame..
open minds bring open thought and the future is unavoidable.. because.. oops.. it just happened..
burn is a photo collective the same way any photo collective on flickr or bicker or egoicker is..
chuff.. chuff..
d
flickr DOES have a problem with quantity.. but quality, mailed out to the right people will always gain results..
(red wine – by the wny)
beate and the bean are away for the weekend..
“Rafal had his work cut out for him, the LFA pool is chock full of good stuff.”
But so what if the LFA pool is full of good stuff. There is good stuff everywhere. “Good” is the new “Average.” Where is the stuff that stands above “good.” Not on Flickr.
IMHO, of course.
imho .. :o)
i think you are right.. good has always been
C or C+
i wish i could find A+.. the gaza work from last christmas which was ‘inside’ and provocative.. yet i do not know the photographers name, nor the title of the slideshow..
okay jim..
you have me there.
d
JASON
images can be searched and therefore sold only via captions on flickr or any stock photography website … which is basically how the photography via internet works ..there fore if u dont put your photographs in pools / groups and dnt caption your photographs or any sort of comments on them they are practically useless to flickr …and you have free online presence if you really aint that professional in your career as a photogrpaher .. or you are just lazy …..
http://viiphoto.ning.com/
no one has mentioned this general website collective.. which VII seems to support.. looking for new talent.. or are they just feeding the capitalist beast? blanding down photography? loosing site of the importance of .. erm.. what was it again?
@Panos: You know I was joking -I hope- :-D
Anyway, you’re more than free to submit to Dr Karanka’s Print Stravaganza, which is one of those exhibitions that orbits around hcsp, lpv and similar.
David
Adobe Flash… stuck in my head…
Don’t know if Alex is coming. He mentioned that he wanted to travel up friday 20th with a friend, but I need to be in Bergen at the Mew-concert (check the youtube-link) the 19th. But it was a while ago we talked about that.
Ok. I’m on “this-skype-thing” now.
OK, PANOS,
if you leave Athens , you better leave Athens tomorrow…cause another storm is coming …
PLEASE, check your email …NOW…I mean NOW…I have all the bus schedules KTEL .
follow directions … you will be happy ONLY if you follow the directions…
free food ,free home, Euros …kikiki…NOTHING IS REALLY FREE !!!
P.S I hope you didn’t forget the signed book !!! Check the email NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Don’t knock / key inside the email ! I have yellow and red water,no smoking inside …
but you can BURN the roof down …hoorayyy
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!! BURNIANS , The house is BURNING !!!
NOTHING IS REALLY FREE !!!
Cat Power – You Are Free
Any other BURNIANS in Greece???
THODORIS are you in Cyprus or Athens ???
I think there is one JONNEKSSON in Athens…
ZISKAR, STELIOS …hmmm…please proceed in the TIME OUT area … !!!
P.S DAVIDB… time for party …Come over …yellow water …kikiki
KATIE …Street fighter accepted with no keys …damnit lady ,you have to start writing this book …
I don’t know, there is something here and there …I love to go through your postings…especially when my name is there…hihihi…yeap, I have to admit that…I am addicted to MRS.FONSECA postings !!!and did you see BOBBY’s pots …LOVE ,LOVE ,LOVE …all we need is BURN
CIVI, you are the REAL DEAL!!! Bless your sweet heart. WHAT NOT TO LOVE!!!
Patricia
Jim —
You decide to tackle the part about “good stuff” in all of that. Really minor point, and I hate being negative to start the day, but that’s rich coming from you.
David B —
Flickr has a problem with quantity only if you see it as a whole. If you look at the individual groups it doesn’t, and that’s probably the more beneficial way to tackle it. Pretty good post on the subject here:
http://lapuravidagallery.tumblr.com/post/227001627/anatomy-of-a-debate
till dawn
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SI9EkJCDOvI/AAAAAAAAAM0/oKBxsxBjWCA/s1600-h/21640002.jpg
jared
i’m keen on any way of showing photos.. of doing it.. of not making excuses.. of not being a snob.. of finding our place in the context of our piers and TEACHING others, because it’s only with a good teacher that you know you are hearing the truth without deviation or divisiveness..
good teachers.
and fuck whatever kit you use.. there are some very expensive shit cameras out there..
it’s no longer about the film and lens you use
I just had a nice glass of yellow water. Now I think it’s time for bed. It’s nearly 5am. My body clock is all messed up. It’s very hard to correct it. I agree with you Civi – Kathleen should write a book about something, a novel. She probably is already a writer of some sort.
Civi…
I’m in Cyprus… It looks like winter caught up with us too… 4 days ago I swimming at Kourion beach, wearing shorts and t-shirt, and now it’s raining and the temperature has dropped at least 10 degrees…
andrea – don’t drink pee..
the salt content will kill you.
thodoris..
my father sever active service in cyprus in the 60’s/./
my perspective was that it held similarities with n. ireland..
be very interested on your perspective?
d
To those who are in the market for a blog format portfolio site I would look at either photoshelter (if you want your archives online and accessible to clients) or visualsociety.com.
Anyone contemplating a FLASH ONLY based site should go to photoshelter and look at this link that has their survey of image buyers: http://pa.photoshelter.com/mkt/photo-buyer-survey-2009
Also:
This : http://blog.photoshelter.com/corp/2009/04/is-your-web-designer-full-of-c.html
And this:
http://blog.photoshelter.com/corp/2009/06/photographer-websites-the-basi.html
By the way, even though I didn’t liked the LFA that much (just like a lot of the work featured on Burn doesn’t appeal to me) I really enjoyed the discussion as always—even with the detours that Panos’s comments forced upon the participants…
I find the dialog part of Burn probably more educational than the featured pictures part, in the sense that there are MANY places on the web were one can stumble upon very interesting photography (whatever each of us considers interesting that is…) but very few places where one can follow (or actively participate) in thought provoking discussions like the ones that take place here.
Also, a thanks for the HCSP (Flickr group) suggestion… wasn’t aware of it, and it seems VERY interesting…
OUR PATRICIA … I am sending good energy for the book !!!
DAVIDB …your photo resebles very much your Greek House ( I am a pisser) o)
ANDREAC…We LOVE AUSSIES …especially the ladies…KERRY, etc…sorry mates :)))
THODORIS…we will arrange a meeting …pretty soon …keep the email door open !!!
BJARTE,JARED,JIM …viva America !!!
VIVEK … if youtravel through Greece …come by
and Welcome THOMAS …
P.S I am going out to check the azaleas…it’s gonna rain hard…hmmmm
Ah,…I need some BURNIANS from Africa too…
I WILL BE BACK
pete – the survey is brilliant.. just great..
civilian – i BANK on it..
can you afford to have panos visit?
could cost you a bundle?
Ah… PETE is around with lots of good links …
I am running like BOBBY …(great post by the way …637 words :)))
DAVIDB,
his is a true BURNIAN…hmmmm…what can go wrong ???
P.S don’t forget…I am one of the best farters in the Universe…oups…I keep forgetting
Someone delete me…Sponsors might stop by …hmmm 0)
.. sponsors of farts?
i’ll take a chunk of that for fame..
and beate burps like a pig..
i just burp like a goat..
does that win a chunk:?
NEW ZEALAND.. or aus.. wherever it is.. do you know any photographers in africa?
“Also, a thanks for the HCSP (Flickr group) suggestion… wasn’t aware of it, and it seems VERY interesting…”
Yeah. I liked the comment about the Burn sycophants. ;)
yeah… bloody sycophants..
tsck..
bloody bloody..
raining again..
umph..
and it’s shit..
it’s really shit..
pah.
David B…
I’ve never visited Ireland (not even as a tourist) let alone claiming an in-depth knowledge and understanding of the situation there, so I’ll refrain to draw parallels to what’s happened/happening there and here.
Jim…
Didn’t get it… what are you referring to?
jim was refering to you being a sycophant of flickr and of a group therein..
it’s just jim.
any perspective on cyprus today?
David B;
Interesting story! I decided this year that as I’m getting older now (46) I’m going to try my best never to turn into a crusty old curmudgeon! It’s way too easy to look at the negative, but I agree that rose tinted specs are a liability too.
This year hasn’t been very easy due to some personal stuff and I’ve found that shooting the kids has been extremely beneficial. I think I’ve mentioned before about the restorative powers of youth…
Andrea;
“am not interested in Lonely Planet Images as they have some ridiculous rules for their photographers”
Don’t they just state standard photo library terms? Mind you it’s been a while since I’ve looked at their site.
The one thing photo libraries look for is to fill areas that they don’t currently have good coverage of. So if you search their site and find tons of stuff on India etc then they probably aren’t interested, unless your work is spectacularly better of course.
Also they want volumes of images, which often photographers based in those areas can supply easier. But why not shoot what’s around you in Australia for stock? Travel costs and general logistics etc are minimal, and you can shoot every day….
Am listening to one of your compatriots being interviewed; Barry Humphries, a clever, clever man…
lonely planet are a friendly while also huge cooperation.. as mcdonalds might be.. i don’t know.. i don’t cook burgers….
predictable.. stock.. of.. *things*.. and they don’t pay much :o)
“I’ve found that shooting the kids has been extremely beneficial” That didn’t sound too good did it? Though I’m sure my parents felt the same way sometimes!!! :-)
“I’ve found that photographing the kids has been extremely beneficial” That sounds better!
Thodoris, someone made a comment on the HPSC forum on Flickr about “Burn sycophants.”
HCSP, that is.
for the a sycophants http://www.etrouko.com.au/imiimages.htm
I think they believe we are trying to ride DAH’s coattails to glory. ;)
Yes i agree that Lonely Planet Images is basically made up of generic travel stuff…
ahh – i get it..
cloaked.. relevant..
some are, i’m sure jim..
some are just .. erm..
just..
apologies for my remiss comment.. clarity wins through.
Jim…
I didn’t see that. I based my comment in a ten minute look-around whereupon I found this:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72057594133009207
a list of movies many of which I’ve already seen, some of which are on my list and some never heard of, so I thought it was interesting…
I don’t use nor I regularly visit Flickr, but to argue that there is no real, personal, insightful, and even exceptional work in there, is obscured. Even if you look at it from a statistical point of view, the probability dictates that one in a million of its users MUST be an exceptional photographer…
David B…
It’s a bit late here… I’ll keep my thoughts about Cyprus for another day…
‘night everyone…
I meant absurd instead of obscured… now gotta go… Reality Bites is calling me (for an Nth screening… :))
I didn’t manage to stay in bed after all. The Goons woke me up.
Ross, Yes Our Bazza is a very talented guy. He’s got a book out or something.
About lonelyplanetimages.com their rules as I have read them on the LP site are like this: 500 shots per quarter, every quarter. Exclusivity. And yes I also heard they don’t pay so well and now they are affiliated with Getty who everyone seems to detest. There are more rules but off the top of my head i can’t remember them but its a lot more tricky to get accepted there as well. You have to give them a lot of pictures to get started. Alamy by contrast doesn’t have any of those difficult rules. I understand their rankings have to do with how often the images you upload get rejected (for technical reasons). I don’t think its got anything to do with keywords. You can keyword the images yourself. I think they sound quite fair and a local photographer here recommended it to me. He is on both sites.
I don’t want to go and shoot stock for stocks sake. I want to shoot what I want but because of the terms on Alamy I can use the images however I want. And right now I want to go to India. I mean I am going to India, I will be there in two weeks :D. I don’t see myself as just a photographer. I am a cyclist-photographer-traveller (in no particular order). And yes I am interested in parts of Australia. Earlier this year I went from here to Darwin on my pushy. Well almost to Darwin. My bike broke down about 400km before. I want to see more of the outback. It’s lovely where I live but apparently the Queensland government pays some Brisbane photographers to take lots of pictures from my local area, pays them $500 for each snap and then hands these images out free to anyone who wants to use them in their marketing. I think this may be a widespread practice now amongst tourism authorities. Also travelling in India is cheaper for me than travelling around here. Still I wondered if it would be better to sell pictures of oz on an aussie stock library.
I gather I am going to have to come up with some other ideas about ways to earn money from my photography if I want to make my living in this business and I think it’s not going to be easy. I have a few ideas. But I am always open to suggestions.
signed: a Burn sycophant
Thodoris — Just some stuff I have bookmarked from there that you might find interesting.
Films for photogs – http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72057594133009207/
Street video – http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157603264785908/
Hardcore Greek Mythology – http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157621137282454/
Library List – http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157613320429769/
Magazine list – http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157619703070021/
Photo Books – Good deals — http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157611415088452/page3/
What that groups refers to as “in-fighting”, I consider vigorous discussion. I think most everyone here holds a level of respect for others. But I am really glad I missed out on the supposed circle jerk…yeah.
-Sychophntius Maximus.
andrea…
tourist boards can be a good way of traveling if you have specific subjects you want to shoot and guaranteed reproduction in publications.. no living through lonely planet type stuff.. nice people though..
erm.. drunk now..
want to write more.. unable to.. will do.. not now though.. drunk now.. i used to use them.. tourist boards.. but.. drunk now.. (continue ad-nauseum)
d
But I am really glad I missed out on the supposed circle jerk…yeah.
-Sychophntius Maximus
here the definition of circle jerks…and ben’s explanation of why BURN and DAH failed..?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157611448952567/page2/
poor bobb was all alone at the point defending Burn against the poison of
bryanformhal and my good friend now benR….
but ( laughing ) , of course now both bryanF and ben are begging to be published here..
times changed and both talented bryan and ben are totally welcomed here.. i personally plugged bryanf’s la pura vida exhibition couple months ago in LA..( jared, am i wrong??? )
but when BURN started there was no support… only BURN JEALOUSY and Burn hate..
read:
Hardcore Street Photography (HCSP) / Discuss
benroberts says:
what are peoples thought’s on DAH’s new “Burn Magazine” initiative?
https://www.burnmagazine.org/
i have to confess to being ever so slightly dissapointed…
– “featured photographs” are fairly unimpressive
– current photo essay – is it just me or is it really over the top whimsical?
however, i think the biggest flaw is that due to the “photo celebrity” nature of the projects driving force (DAH) it seems like already the chance of any constructive, interesting discourse is drowned out by the deluge of gushing, arse-kissing comments that made “roadtrip” almost unbearable
an opportunity missed in my eyes – while i applaud the emerging photographers award, DAH’s energy in building the community and the associated workshops, i can’t help feeling that “Burn” is close to being an opportunity missed. beyond showcasing other peoples work aside from that of DAH, it seems pretty much the same as roadtrip. i wouldn’t go so far as to say “circle jerk” – but it feels pretty close.
or am I just a cynic who deserves to get called out?
laughing… yes ben… u totally deserve to be called out…time catches up…eventually..
who is the sycophant now???????????
Actually, Panos, THIS entire thread is toxic.
“History . definition and Origin of circle jerk, and the sycophants”
and again BIG THANKS TO RAFAL….( jinju )
that kept it real, and tried to keep the peace going
and the truth shining…
Rafal totally proved to bryans and bens that DAH is not a
fancy celebrity and that BURN or ROADTRIPS were not waste of time
same with JoniK..
thank u to both ( Rafal & JoniK )
of course wayyy later i met two more golden personalities ( ludmilla through joe and jaredI..)
all that just for the history about sycophantry and sycophants ..
im glad eventually they all changed their minds ( and of course im not talking about the majority)
only couple of them, aforementioned started the BURN HATE crusade…
hopefullly they’ll both be published here soon and we will all live happily ever after…
and again dont shoot the messenger…
that was the flickr circle then…im sure things changed…
big hug
and joni… thanks i will submit to u once i get it together here in europlandia….
I had a bo peep at that Hard core street photography site,…………beach scenes, people as specks in the distance, holding tree somehow it seems that it has deviated from the original intent. Whatever happened to inyourface street stuff? Has it all gone that soft?
Jim,
honestly things have changed i hope, but when my effing venice essay was published last XMAS
i wasnt even feeling comfortable to visit HCSP..( I was informed by JOE back then about their existence )..
they did burry me alive…with their comments…why? jealousy?
cant think of anything else….
Again this is why BURN and DAH failed..?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157611448952567/page2/
yeah! enough already. Time for some new work?
Panos —
We’re not gonna do this again are we?
I just re-read that thread and the majority of the comments there are pretty fair — mostly expressing anticipation, excitement, disappointment, etc. — much the same type of comments under each and every essay here. I think most people there are (or were) pretty excited about Burn. It didn’t do it for some people — big deal.
Some of the selections are questioned, but what makes that different than when it’s done here…?
Both Burn and HCSP are pretty large groups — when someone from either side (I can’t believe there are actually sides) calls the whole other side out — like Burn sycophants or Flickrites, or whatever — it just seems kinda silly.
Peace. :) Where are the Greece photos :)
and JIM yes.. toxic indeed…
but im not gonna destroy and trash RAFAL’s and JARED’s honest efforts..
i think 98% of the hcsp folks are cool as fuck…but bryanF’s poison,
although i totally respected him and plugged and promoted his work here on burn
is beyond explanation..
i wish Bryan or Ben would come out their closet and explain if they still think ,
a year later if and why BURN FAILED…
i would also need their explanation of CIRCLE JERK..
Ben’s own words:
“or am I just a cynic who deserves to get called out?”
yep..your wish is granted..
anyway…im done with all that he said , she said crap….
i hope..
and i apologize for bringing the toxicity over here,…
again , just a messenger..nothing more, nothing less
over and out
i’ve never tried to hide that thread Panos, or my identity on flickr.
yup I was sceptical about burn at first, and am still not fully convinced (not with the content, more how it will evolve from where it stands now). however a site that gives out $10k to an emerging photographer cannot be a bad thing, and i’ve enjoyed some of the work posted on here immensely.
so yes i was too cynical. satisfied?
but come on dude, calling me out almost a year later? haven’t we moved on from this? jeez….
finally, i’m not sure why i should bother pointing this out, but making character assessments about someone you have never met, based on some internet postings… perhaps you should ask for some character assessments from people who you seem to really respect.. ooh, like (ahem…) Joe – who i meet regularly in London and Edinburgh; Joni – who I have photographed and partied with on several occasions in Cardiff and London; David Bowen who I have shared a beer with twice now in London; or maybe Ludmilla, who I worked with on HCSP and other projects for over two years….
right, in the words of Bob Black I think that’s the last time I’ll waste my energy here for a little while…
Jared..
ok ok ok.. i got carried away………
im in a sphere of extreme insomnia…..
and feel very toxic myself..
maybe i should apologize in advance to bryan
and ben ( usually my longest friendships started with a fight )..
but its 3:42 am…
havent had any wine…
no smoking for a week… pot withdrawls are killing me…
i should leave the skeletons in the closet…
even worst i havent shot a single photo and im out of balance..
which is sooooo obvious…
and once again sorry for my contribution when it comes to “toxicity”
just for you panos from very old friend of mine.
ben…
u r right…
i agree…. that was wrong from my part..
millions of things changed a year later..
my bad
thanks John…
:)
i think i need a hug and a valium..
Panos; “pot withdrawls are killing me…” Just to lighten things up a bit…
I’ve never been a smoker of either variety, not anti-pot; just not my thing. Well here’s my one and only “green stuff” experience; 17 years old country boy in the big city doing the annual trade course and exams.
Invited to join about half a dozen apprentices in the back of a Ford Transit van for a smoke and cruise. Real styley 70’s van, ruby red carpeted walls, floor and ceiling and big speakers thumping out :-)
Me, being naïve, couldn’t work out how a fellow apprentice could afford such a flash set of wheels…
Cruise around for two hours smoking up, pull up outside the school and all lurch out the back door. I’m sure it must’ve looked like a Cheech and Chong movie with the amount of smoke that emptied out of the van!
Spill out onto the pavement and straight inside for a trade maths exam. Which as you can probably imagine went “really well” :-)
Greece getting you down huh?
What you doing there anyways?
better to be down and out in paris or london than athens for sure.
Here’s a couple of “cheer ya ups!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVEdYYMlOJ4
better to be down and out in paris or london than athens for sure.
u bet!!!
like davin was saying about Bucharest…
people stare the shit out of u….
lovely music Ross ..
never saw the second stones video..
dope!
extreme culture shock…
hopefully i will catch up with Nikos Economopoulos soon and do an interview for Burn…
Panos, dear friend, yes, you are not yourself these days. Maybe it’s Greece, maybe it’s jet lag/insomnia, maybe it’s pot withdrawal, maybe it’s no booze…but to my way of thinking it has lots more to do with your NOT SHOOTING! Now, take it from Doc Patricia, get some sleep and then get yourself out on the streets and START SHOOTING! Don’t worry about how people stare or don’t stare at you, just shoot. And shoot. And shoot. And shoot. And shoot…
All shall be well.
Sending a big warm hug from
Patricia
PANOS
this is when you need to shoot…
get out your camera
and
make
a
PHOTOGRAPH……
xox
same time
dear patricia….
our posts…
same thoughts…..
xox
Panos, please say hello to Nikos. Thanks.
Patricia :))
Wendy..:)))
yea true.. sorry for my crankiness and last chunk of toxicity..
i feel too self conscious …its a challenge… 2 days ago i visit the old
hometown..full of ghosts of my childhood…
now i know how Marcin felt going to shoot his “Hometown” project in Poland..
now i know why stopped…
every little corner reminds u of something…childhood…
i visited the old castle from the 13th century yesterday…from the byzantine years…
u see ruins everywhere… from 2000 years ago..
ancient greek theaters , the ancient city of Ambrakia is literally six feet under…
i feel like i have to sleep on top of a cemetary…
just like James Chance’s essay “living in cemetery”…
twillight zone…….
5:06am… still havent slept…
eerie , spookie…
but there is one positive though……
tomatoes taste surreal… food is great…it feels like someone operated on my taste..
everything tastes superb … unreal…………
John V.
u bet….brother..
:)
If you ever get a chance have a read of Daido Moriyam’s “Memories of a Dog” and get an insight how he copes shooting the old hometown in Japan along with his being on the road. When I went back to my place of birth I found a great tree surgeon’s shop bought some climbing gear, sent it back home and caught the next train to another town as I I had moved on from that place and time …….the same went for the mother country
Imanta nevaid miris,
Viņš tikai aprakts dus,
i hear u… i hear u
John Vink: I have a photo alongside you here: http://chronicle.com/article/A-World-Transformed/48884/
right on davin…
alongside John Vink and Nikos Economopoulos…
:)
proud
Panos —
I think you read me wrong. I’m not stompin’ on your right to say what you want. That’s what makes you you. I’m just tired of the flickr strawman debate… We’ve had this discussion in person. People are people are people. Personalities will always draw discussion and ire — you know this more than most. :) The principles in these places are the things that count though.
jared…
how about meeting in el taurino in 3 months…
and ima get u get u drunk, get u drunk …
and no worries…
:)
i know u werent implying for me to:
Thodoris ..:)
i would love to hook up wtchu at some point..
any trip to athenes anytime soon??
Davin… Yeah great: picture was (obviously very poorly) reframed. Sometimes it is better NOT to know a picture was published. Depressing…
Jared…
Thanks for the links.
Here are two for you:
IMDb (Top 250 movies as voted by our users) http://www.imdb.com/chart/top?tt0072684
Erica’s list of photoBooks http://www.lightstalkers.org/what_is_the_last_photo_book_you_bought
Panos…
No plans at the moment for coming to Greece soon… but you never know…
BURNIANS,
“Remember that there is nothing stable in human affairs; therefore avoid undue elation in prosperity, or undue depression in adversity.”
Socrates
P.S and JOHNY.V …at least you are published …What not to LOVE !!!
By the way, I think Socrates was wrong…kikiki…
I LOVE elation and depression to the MAX…I am a Civilian after all …
and I am gonna dance till there is no tomorrow… I have to start laughing again…HOOURRAYYYY !!!
P.S Shoot , shoot my friends… life is going fast and you better sweat to throw the toxins out …
LOVE you ALLLL…
Rafal…
I recognize that you must have put LOTs of time and effort to put the LFA edit together and I understand your need to defend it… I pretty much accept everything you wrote too, BUT…
You seem to cannot help yourself and you take your argument one step further than it needs to go, in this case calling legitimate critic *silly*, trying to diminish it.
I will not bother. Previous experience has shown incapability on your part to recognize where and when you cross lines and inability to bring yourself to apologize for when you’re wrong.
Thodoris…
ok, then…
i’ll come to beautiful Cyprus…
( hopefully the ladies arent as bad looking as in athens..)
;)
otherwise… next stop..Bucharest..
the city of the natural, born supermodels ( according to davin of course…)
:))))
Thodoris some of it comes from Rafal residing in a place where a male who loses face loses his dignity…………so I am passing his comments to the keeper. There is a new ball and a new over on its way
THODORIS,
Where have you been ??? BURNIANS are coming to Greece,some of them already in Greece…
We need to arrange something !!!
DAVIDB ,
make a coffe triple shot and come over …KATIE don’t go to sleep yet …
I am cooking rooster …koookooorikooo ( my apologies to the veggie people )
LOVE to ALLL
IMANTS,
what new Ball ??? say hello to MIC from his Greek civi…:)))
P.S SILENCE …hihihihi
Thodoris,
you wrote “I like neither the individual pictures nor the edit. (I’m generalizing of course here to make a point… there are pictures which I like more than others in there, but…)”
So according to you, the point you are making isnt based on reality because you actually DO like some pictures even though you claim to like none, you are just making a silly point even YOU dont buy in order to prove something…
Imants,
some of that sounds racist, to be honest.
Nothing racist about the comment it is an important and integral part in that part of the world just part of the concept of Kibun
denial?
my apologies again…
I wanted to say silents …:)))
P.S come on yellow water on me today…VIVA,VIVA,VIVA !!!
Civilian your gift, a page of silence http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm
Imants..
trippy… dope
:)
Perhaps these essays should be replaced every two days instead of three or four. Without something new to bash about, the flame wars seem to grow quickly when they spring up.
IMANTS,
where did you get my “image”…it’s so me …
I owe you …:)))
my etrouko …
BURNIANS…I am BURNED !!!
Civilian I got the photo from your aunt ………. remember when you played hide and seek with that white sheet
Jim,
I’ve always thought that there should be a weekly turnaround on essays.
After all, print magazines usually have a weekly turnaround at best, if not monthly.
Before you say it, yes I know the nature of web based content is a quick turnaround, with readers constantly thirsty for new stuff, but I think it devalues the work somewhat which appears on these sites. Things come and go so fast that they have no time to sink into a reader’s consciousness and have the impact they are meant to. And a lot of the comments which appear on Burn and elsewhere seem to indicate that.
People clearly have too much time on their hands if they need to see a new essay on Burn every other day.
I have no idea what’s happening behind the scenes of Burn, but if the “staff” are being assembled and the web technology is there, perhaps a weekly or bi-weekly issue of the magazine could evolve, along the lines of the New Yorker website with a selection of photo essays (say 2-3), a couple of single images, and some written pieces. There’s obviously scope for audio and video content too. Perhaps even a podcast!
The dialogue section could stay but I feel should not be so prominent to viewers. I’m sure a lot of the nonsense that appears amongst the intelligent discussions seems totally pointless to many of the casual readers. Perhaps a Facebook page or embedded equivalent on Burn would work better, so readers can avoid that side of things if they desire.
From where I’m sitting this seems like a logical next step if Burn is going to establish itself for the long term.
Generally people stop commenting on the essay after a day or two.
As far the comments section unrelated to the essay, I’ve said for a long time that it should not be connected to the front page of the website. The “Recent Comments” should be turned off.
Rafal…
Let me clarify things for you:
a) I didn’t like *your* edit *at all*.
b) from all the individual pictures I only liked 2,3,13,14,16,18,23,28.
c) if your intention was to share interesting links, you could have done it right here in the dialogue part of Burn. You obviously thought that your edit was something special—just like DAH apparently does for publishing it, but *I* disagree.
d) I think that what you attempted to do is commendable and that it has merit and potential. A successful implementation of the same idea is what keeps Shots magazine going since 1986.
By the way, as a point of reference, I also didn’t like the “postcards from home” essay.
Also to deny that your edit is in fact an essay and saying that it requires a special approach is a bit oxymoron since it’s clearly featured in the “photographic essays” part of Burn.
Peace out.
these continentals, so aggressive!
:-)
usually, my customers at the beer pub try to kill each other until a new pretty girl walks by….
“The dialogue section could stay but I feel should not be so prominent to viewers. I’m sure a lot of the nonsense that appears amongst the intelligent discussions seems totally pointless to many of the casual readers…”JUSTIN
“The “Recent Comments” should be turned off.” JIM
AND …other BURNIANS … you are so right…I have to admit ,I feel responsible for NOT raising the bar ,I am responsible for talking to much … and throwing the whole dialogue offshore …hmmmm…
BUT
there will be a way … I count on you …alll of you …
LET’S MAKE BURN a better place to BE… :)))
ben,ben,ben,ben..
must i vouch for you? you havn’t even visited beautiful norway yet..
perhaps a vouch would be premature..
okayokay..
you’re a good guy.. one of them.. and looking forward to visiting london in the new year.
have you any new spain photos to show from your project?
d
civilian..
have a cup of tea and sit down.. do not get down.. unless you are dancing..
i think the idea and point which burn grew from was an open discussion platform.. there is as much merit to talk about life as anything else photographic..photography is not just about growing in your opinion of the work presented – i think it’s also about growing in other ways, and i’m sure some have taken comfort and inspiration for the varied posts.
we’re all guilt of talking nonsense at times..
justin – would it not be the case that 2 or 3 essays and then single photos at the same time will confuse the comments and focus of the group here?
also unsure of how you see a podcast of videa and audio working here.. as a photography site that is..
i guess there are short documentaries available as podcasts – i think magnum used to do them.. yet the point it would come to is who would be doing it for here?
d
david i am literally about to step out of the door of my studio and take 70 rolls to be developed. yikes.
GOOD LUCK.. ben
metro much love you :o)
must.. must..
nice little interview..
http://thephotocoterie.com/post/227424501/info-ben-roberts-30-london-uk
John Vink: Yep, lately all the photo editors either pick the wrong image or crop my pictures :))))) but I was happy to see my name alongside you and Nikos and Jean!!!
Panos: but actually Moldova has even more beautiful women because they are a mix of Romanian and Russian :)
John Vink: I saw a copy of Georgian Spring today and I likr your double page spread there from your work in that mountain village back in 2000 it was, right?
John Vink: Here is your original: http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP3=ViewBox_VPage&VBID=2K1HZOM1JBQME&IT=ZoomImage01_VForm&IID=2S5RYDIX4VNK&PN=8&CT=Search
Panos – Here’s my last comment on that thread which I think was rather complimentary.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157611448952567/page4/#comment72157618890090023
I also chatted and met with David, which was an illuminating experience as many people here know better than I. And I’ve told many people that I was probably over line with my ranting, but that sometimes happens in HCSP, just as it happens here.
I think the success of Burn speaks for itself. And, really there hasn’t been much said about it in HCSP until this little LFA dust up.
The comments bashing Flickr from a few people are not even worth responding too because they are clearly uninformed about what’s going on over there.
And for the record, while I would be honored to have my work shown here, I haven’t submitted an essay, nor do I have any plans to because I don’t feel my work is good enough, nor cohesive enough at this point.
But I am certainly looking forward to what’s next for Burn…
peace,
bryan
Panos…
If you indeed come to Cyprus, the first round is on me.
As for the women here, they’re more fashionable than in Athens, that’s for sure. Kind of like Bucharest, here too the middle class is aspiring to the American Dream of the 50’s… nice cloths, nice cars, nice houses… you can even see a Hummer or a Ferrari passing by casually… and everyone has of course a couple of mortgages on their houses…
panos.Thodoris is right.less than half the women i saw there had moustaches. Thats good odds.
But if you go, dont ask him to take you over the border, and dont talk about white and grey mice.
Wow! John, it seems that The Chronicle quickly removed your image and Nikos’ as well.
John Vink: I am impressed. You guys at Magnum really do stand up for what you believe in. I, too, don’t like my pictures cropped, but the 300 Euros I will get from that job will pay my rent next month. Is this a bad way to justify things, do you think?
This DAH/burn exhibition is being posted all over my wall on facebook
http://www.davidalanharveypresents.com/
Why has it not been mentioned here?
I sure hadn’t heard about it.
You have now :)
CATHY…
i have mentioned here several times that the Burn gallery show was moving to Photoweek in Washington D.C….i imagine it is pretty easy to miss a comment here and there…but, that has been the plan all along…in my next dialogue post , i plan to mention it again…
cheers. david
My oh my oh my oh…..
So many posts in so few shorts days….or short days they seemed (were they really weeks?) for me, traipsing out out the north-right side of the US to see Philly in the cold and then the north-left side to see Seattle and Bellvue in nothing but rain…..sadly all non-photography work, only a few snap-shots taken…long hours in hotel rooms working on material and then presenting….but they did put my name and picture on the brochure and schedule in Seattle…and got to watch movies on the plane on the way out and back…
Blushing….katie and grace talking ’bout me whilst I seek new lenses for a camera which needs no new lens just more exercise….silly me, wanting to play with gear when I know inside that shooting more is what’s needed….drinking diet coke in the concourse of the airport, taking snapshots of the musical light tunnel to the mother ship deep under the detroit airport….
Now I need a “real” web site too….no flikr for me, a few things on FB, and on a web page I threw together, and on a hosting site similar to PBase (know what you mean, Patricia, handy to have those places to park photos and more often snapshots for friends to see)…I saw Patricia’s recommendation….and remember thinking someone else had a nice site that looked not too expensive to manage….Young Tom, was that you? Or perhaps Tom Hyde…or are you one and the same? I should know things like that…..anyone everyone who has done their own site using those kinds of low-costs services who are happy with them please chime in…need some guidelights in that area….
Got some of the prints back from my play with the pentax and Tri-X….at least one photo I like in there, will be using it more….most definitely feel a difference with it….
Oh, and a Day of the Dead festival here, wishing wishing wishing I was left-south in Oaxaca for the real one with all those lucky to be there….but a local mask/art festival, culminating in a candle-lit walk to a cemetary to see the decorated crypts….everyone please hope silently for no rain for me that night….candles and cold rain aren’t much fun…..
Life…even when uninspired…..what not to love????
A.
Andrew B; “play with the pentax and Tri-X”
My very first camera was a Pentax K1000 (mid 1980’s). You could’ve driven a tank over that camera and it would’ve still worked! Also used Pentax screw mount lenses (couldn’t afford K mount!) and stop down metering, which was like shooting with 3 pairs of sunglasses on!
Cheers
BRYAN….
i have missed seeing you in New York…are you still living NYC?? in any case, please stop by…i should return to the city by end of november…
JUSTIN…
i get many opinions on how long an essay should stay “up”…one of the next tech things we want to do is to fix our archive system , so an essay that is not on top, still has more of a “place” than it does now….but, i do think an essay up for a whole week would be a bit much…twice or three times a week changes seem about right…there is no way compare with a weekly or monthly print magazine…readers pick up this magazine every day…print magazine experience is a one time run through and then a long wait for the next one…we certainly do not have the manpower nor the money or even the desire to come out with a print magazine more than once per year…as an annual special…we have toyed with the idea of having a print on demand edition of the best of Burn 2009 before this Christmas….we will see…
as you can see there are as many opinions how to best do things on Burn as there are commentators…some want this, some want that…and then there are the simple realities of what we can do….Burn is not a full time profession or job for either Anton or me…i doubt that will change…so, we will continue to do the best we can with the resources we have….i have two major magazine assignments coming up and a book in progress, so my time is at a premium….unless we have help and financing, Burn cannot move forward from where we are now….we certainly never intended nor intend now to try to make Burn all things for all people…
ideas are popping into my head so fast it is a little scary….sometime i will tell all of you about my ideas for a magazine for ages age 7-14….the real emerging photographers!!!!
cheers, david
Hi Ross…
Exactly the reason I bought the Pentax….from ebay….it was my very first “real” camera as well, had it all through HS and college, was heartbroken when it was stolen from my apartment….learned the mechanics on it quickly, it being all manual :)
So a few months ago I started watching ebay and got one (early version, metal top, with the “Asahi” logo on it, the newer ones were more chealy made) for under $45, with the traditional 50mm f/2….then later found a 28mm f/2…so that’s what I’ve been using….
Even more fun, my 11 year old son wants terribly to use it all the time…some of his shots are quite good..he does better with it than the DSLR (when I let him use it)….
good light,
A.
Andrew B; I sold the K1000 for an Fm2 and never changed from them til digital! I sold 3 of my 4 Fm2 bodies when I went digital, but couldn’t bear parting with my first old beaten up (but super eliable) one. Too many memories… I still love the sound of that mechanical shutter!
ALL…
ok, that was my 15 minutes with the net for today…back tomorrow, for a little more….yes yes i am behind on a new dialogue post…will do as soon as i can…life without the net is quite beautiful, except for coming back to it, and end up so far behind with email and comments here , i can never catch up…paciencia por favor…
cheers, david
stage two today…………. how to sew and bind single pages. The double page sewing was hard enough but I guess this bookbinding is practice but it does give the scope to hand construct books etc
David, as much as I know you want to do this online magazine thing, you really don’t have time. And, seriously, the other stuff you do is far more important in the grand scheme of things.
The current essay strikes me as being from the “Life Sux” school of photography. We all know the world is going to hell in a hand basket. We don’t really need any more photographic evidence.
I Just lost my longish angst ridden post on the same topic. I don’t think i can rewrite it again right now.
Does anyone know any essays that deal with the ethics of shooting this humanitarian sort of work? I need to read something about it. I need to get some sort of guidance, cause I just feel conflicted, or upset about it but feel I may be wrong, or don’t know. I need to read something thoughtful and intelligent on this subject anyway.
I think its right that we know about the injustices in the world and don’t just get around blissfully ignorant, thinking the world is all peace and light but, I want photographers who work in this way to do more than take beautiful pictures. I wonder, is it enough to take beautiful pictures of the evils of the world. And then get paid for it. And showered in glory. Is there something wrong with me for thinking this way? I’m going to bed anyway.
Andrea,
I have some of the same concerns as you, but I don’t know how much cash, or “glory” there is being showered on these photographers… My guess is not much. Photographers take pictures of things, activists um, activate — just seems that’s the way it is, no use getting upset about it, IMO. Just don’t do it if it’s not you…
The photographer seems clearly to hope to benefit financially from the work if he is looking at doing a book on misery. Since it’s unlikely that another book on misery is going to really make any difference to these people, I don’t think, Jared, that the issue is neutral. If the photographer isn’t also an activist, why is he shooting these photos?
“David, as much as I know you want to do this online magazine thing, you really don’t have time. And, seriously, the other stuff you do is far more important in the grand scheme of things.” posted by Jim Powers
I seriously disagree. First of all, DAH has a remarkable capacity for creative work, work that challenges and engages him. And yes, his own photography is at the core of his gifts, but so is his commitment to fostering the growth of and giving opportunities to emerging photographers from across the globe. It is not EITHER I do my own work OR I mentor/curate/edit the work of others, for David it is BOTH/AND.
When the photographic history of this time is written, David Alan Harvey will be among the giants, both because of his own photography and because of his founding and editing Burn Magazine.
Patricia
Patricia, DAH is a human being, and his “remarkable capacity” has real human limits. And it seems to me that he has perhaps taken on too much. David, of course, will do as he wishes. Just expressing an opinion.
I guess we disagree Jim. From my (limited) understanding of the photo-book industry I find it highly unlikely Michael is going to make a killing.
As far as “everyone knows” about all the evils of the world — don’t shoot it argument you’re making, I defy you to find mass-media coverage of these horrors. And again I question your expertise as a news man. Maybe you should retire? This is what journalism is – photojournalism or otherwise. It’s not car accidents and Native Americans dancing…
Your issue seems to be with the relevancy of PJ. A lot of people feel it has no place anymore — most of them aren’t newspaper editors though. I guess you’re just cutting-edge. :)
It’s not something I would run off to shoot, but if I came across it, I’d be hard pressed not to shoot it… and to not try and get it out there in some form.
And after re-reading his statemnet, I think Michael does a perfectly good job describing why he shoots the stuff he shoots…
O.K. So his photography isn’t going to change anything and he isn’t going to make any money off it. Is he shooting for his own edification?
My issue is not with the relevancy of PJ’s, it’s with the relevancy of shooting misery.
Davin, you get 300 for the publication in the magazine where they do a very good job. Does that entitle them to ruin your pic just because they also use it on their website? Shouldn’t they set the same high standards they are using for their printed publication as for their web version?
Thodoris
a,b) So I was right, Thodoris, when I called your point silly. You did indeed like almost 1/3 of the photos yet …. “I like neither the individual pictures nor the edit. (I’m generalizing of course here to make a point…” In fact it was a silly point you were making because it wasn’t based on truth. You didn’t like my edit? Fine, I don’t really care, what pissed me off about comments like yours and others was the aggressiveness and the exaggerations. Why not state things truthfuly from the beginning instead of having to “make a point”?
c) It was published because DAH invited it to be published. I had no intention to do that until DAH invited me to. Ofcourse I was going to take up the challenge. You disagree? Great, I won’t publish it on your magazine. I’d love to see an essay from you here though. I wonder what brilliance you would present to us. Waiting.
John Vink: Of course I agree with you! The photo editor said she is sending me the print copy, but who knows, they have may have cropped the photo in the printed version too for all I know.
Moscow, September 2009 by Anthony Suau:
http://pa.photoshelter.com/c/anthonysuau/gallery-img-show/Moscow-Russia-2009/G0000eTBsyQFdR00/?_bqG=67&_bqH=eJxzdEzMt4h0zw42LTUxD7ZwTAlzTK0oDHcqdCq3MjQ0tDI0MLCyco_3dLF1NwCC1BCn4spAt5QgAwO1AJComrtnvLujj49rUCQ2RQA2zht1
Maybe I should move there :)
JIM
maybe the photographers act of photographing IS their activism?!?!
I understand what you are saying, as you’ve said it before,
and I’ve disagreed with you before….
as photographers, as artists, we need to stay true to our vision…
if that vision is photographing the poor, malnourished children in Africa,
then the photogs need to shoot that….
I understand your dilemma, HOW is this helping?
But little by little, one person at a time,
the world will be a better place…
my belief, my hope…..
Even when ONE person is moved or thinks about an issue due to photos,
I think it matters
and makes a difference…..
:))
“Even when ONE person is moved or thinks about an issue due to photos,
I think it matters
and makes a difference…..”
No, it doesn’t make a difference. That’s fuzzy, feel good talk. A coffee table book full of misery is pretty much worthless. The forces that are responsible for the issues in this essay are beyond the reach of the photographer or those viewing his photos. Nobody that can make any difference (or will make a difference) is going to “hear these children’s cries” as a result of these photos.
And I think all this stuff about it changing something in the viewer is nonsense. The viewer isn’t the one dying from lead poisoning. If it makes me feel compassion, or outrage, what damn good is that to these children. Who gives a damn whether the viewer gets some pablum for their soul?
Jim,
Isn’t there an educational value to an essay like this? Isn’t educating people at the heart of photojournalism?
What educational value? That millions of people are being abused and exploited in the world? Duh. Big surprise.
And we come in with cameras blazing and say, “Hey folks, remember those 20 million AIDS orphans I showed you photos of last week that you can’t possibly help? Well, here’s thousands of more kids – suffering from lead poisoning – that you also can’t help. Yeah, now you can really feel like crap.” Good grief.
Jim, I think I get your point – I just cannot agree.
I always thought, that it should be the goal of photojournalism to show things that have not been changed yet (but need to be changed). And yes, sometimes those essays would have had an impact or even made a change – and sometimes they failed in doing so.
I’d just find it more cynical NOT to show those essays – to me that would be like not even trying…
Naturally, the one who suggests that creating a photo essay well-executed in the tradition of activist photojournalism is a cynical act predictably reveals his comment as nothing more than a projection of his own cynicism. Discounting the impact of photographic work on its viewers while decrying its lack of impact to change the lives of its subjects is the height of cynicism.
Dominik, the result of this constant barrage of hopeless pain and misery has not stirred the masses to outrage and action, but caused them to stop watching the news and stop reading newspapers. Compassion fatigue set in a long time ago. We are just salving over our own guilt pretending that our photos are effective catalysts for change anymore.
Good grief is right. I wonder how many Peace Corp workers and other aid workers have been influenced into service by photojournalism. That may not change the route problem, but real human beings eat, or drink fresh water or receive medicine that wouldn’t. That’s just a fact. Sorry that ain’t enough for you, Jim.
I don’t know you’re personal history, possible military service, etc., but you sound like someone who’s never left their ranch in Texas. Someone who’s never seen good deeds done.
I’ll give you that PJ isn’t gonna change the world, that much is obvious, but to say it has no impact is ludicrous. I get tired of seeing stories on starving African children as well, but this is a story I bet not many of us knew about. Any little aid to what looks like that hell on earth, I’m sure would be much appreciated by them.
I feel sorry for you Jim.
Never been in the military. But plenty of experience chasing lost causes with a camera. Which is why I don’t shoot pain and misery anymore.
What is a lost cause?
I’ve been working with HIV-positive kids for more than five years. Some of them died during those years, and until a cure is found, those kids will die long time before they should. Are they lost causes? I think, the decision if a cause is lost lies in every one of us. Again, I’d find it more cynical not to try.
JIM
its not fuzzy, feel good talk….
I believe
if a person is educated b/c of a photo essay
it IS enough…
its about consciousness,
raising awareness…
power of thought….
that will change our world…..
***
I guess we agree to disagree
:))
Update, Gordon Lafleur Photography
Listed my studio building yesterday. Big relief, big change, scary shit. Had a repair guy trying to resurect my Epson 7600 today, he failed, I’m ordering a new 7900 tommorow.
Upwards and onwards.
Jim. Thanks for stirring the pot. I know you believe in the power of the photograph, but have lost faith in the universe. I’m kinda with you. I have been working my way through “What Matters”, and I gotta tell you, it is a pretty tough go.
Jim — You always address the part of the post you can handle, but not the meat. Ever. And I’ll keep reminding you of your lack of…
“I wonder how many Peace Corp workers and other aid workers have been influenced into service by photojournalism. That may not change the root* problem, but real human beings eat, or drink fresh water or receive medicine that wouldn’t. That’s just a fact.”
*edited for spelling
Why isn’t that better than nothing for you, Jim? Do you just not give a shit? Just say that instead of preaching to everyone.
Eagerly awaiting your answer.
Jared, I have no idea who many Peace Corps volunteers have been influenced into service by photojournalism. Do you?
Nope, but I do know a few… I’m going to assume they’re not the only ones.
If I were right, would it be enough for you, Jim?
jared, if you were right about what?
You sound like Abraham bargaining with God to save Sodom and Gomorrah. “If I can find just two righteous men?”
I think I made my feelings pretty clear.
JIM.. I understand your cynicism. I’d just like to add something to this thought. How does democracy work, by educating the public and letting them vote freely, I’m sure you recognize the complexity of living and surviving within a democracy with the constant need to keep informed of things as its a open system so the vultures are free to rain down on us as much as the generous ones. I’m sure you’d agree how strong an effect propaganda can have, so why can’t sincere or positive education work in this case just as strongly. Case in point; after the christmas day tsunami off Indonesia, much support for the victims was harnessed through the media. If this had happened a century before no one would be the wiser about the catastrophic effect it add except for the victims themselves. Of course society is too dynamic a process to put down to literally relying on a single degree of cause and effect. Much more multi layered. Wouldn’t you say?
I retain faith in empathy!
“I retain faith in empathy!”
I do not.
Still not answering, Jim? C’mon. Don’t make me post it again.
You know who I hate. Wedding photographers. I mean, over half of the marriages don’t workout, what’s the point!! Trying to get rich off other peoples happiness (misery). Good grief!
BENROBERTS:
70 rolls of WHAT?!!!!! You making a movie?
JIM:
“If the photographer isn’t also an activist, why is he shooting these photos?”
Maybe he is just doing some excellent documentary work in order to make sure the story is told and future generations may not make the same mistakes.
PATRICIA:
“When the photographic history of this time is written, David Alan Harvey will be among the giants”
OH brother… Seriously, I love the man and his work too, but can we all ease up on the hero worship/ass kissing? JEEZE! It goes a bit overboard sometimes. — LOVE YA DAVID.
AND BACK TO JIM AGAIN…
Who once again has pissed me off… For the love of Pete (ME SPECIFICALLY) will you please drop it? We all know you don’t think photography can change anything…. Go shoot kids and ice cream cones and leave the rest of the misery photography as you like to call it for the rest of us who actually give a damn and are brave enough to care.
PETER GRANT:
“I retain faith in empathy!” AMEN MAN!
I would never tell anyone with as much raw talent and passion as some photographers appearing here that they should just forget about making a difference. I would never, ever tell ANYONE that they could not make a difference because one of them damn well might.
(Thank god I deleted the rest of what I wrote or Panos would have been smacking me again. sigh. this gets old, toxic and a waste of time. fuck this, where’s my camera. looking forward to another great burn feature.)
C’mon Jared
“You know who I hate. Wedding photographers”
I’m not primarily a wedding photog Jared, though I do my share of weddings. 50% is pretty good odds. I actually like doing weddings, most of the time.
I gotta tell you Jared, some of the best stuff, by the most skilled photographers out there, is wedding photography.
Weddings and funerals are pretty much the only ritual that North American society observes with any enthusiasm, and, what an amazing oppertunity for making photographs {the weddings, not the funerals}. You don’t have days or weeks or months to tell the story,…. hours. No fucking up, no missing the shot, no excuses. I was watching a slide show by Kevin Kubota at a seminar once. His shot of a dad dancing with his daughter at a wedding moved me to tears. That’s why he makes more money than most of us.
gordon – i think jared was being ironic re. wedding photographers….
pete – mostly stuff from a project i’ve been shooting in spain, and a few other bits and bobs thrown into the mix – including a portrait of my friend Laura who a certain Mr Harvey wanted to photograph after meeting her at the magnum party earlier this year! ;-)
So, how about a few choruses of “We Are The World?” Then everyone can feel good about their camera making the world a better place for you and me. Well, you and me with camera gear valued in excess of the combined net worth of the entire village we are photographing, anyway.
Just a hello from the road in California – shooting one story in five days, am exhausted but feel like I just had my own mini workshop a la DAH experience. Hope to share it with you all when it’s together. The year long project thing really made me curious to shoot a story quick quick. Feels a little like fast food but there is a place for that too. Digital, color. Thanks Preston!
Jim.. I haven’t really paid that much attention to your attitude previously, but I get the impression its been more chiseled away at by rampant consumerism and capitalism, and all the selfishness that can bring out, rather than not being able to find sincerity in people. I think the world you recognize is not all there is out there. Sure, there aren’t many people who are willing to give up all for someone else, but we are a dynamic species who have failings but also a sense of care and responsibility for others.
Dont let what some do destroy your ability to see the dynamic working in others.
Jared – you need an assistant? :)
Remember that you and Panos ( and I ) are banned from el taurino by El Mustache Magnifico . sooooo, the pit-stop is my house. ribs?
Pete, I am offended at your characterization of me as an ass kisser. An apology would be appreciated.
Patricia
peter, it’s been chiseled away by the recognition that the scale of the problems exceeds our collective ability to solve them, much less individual effort. And that even if we had the cooperation of those who have caused the problems to start with; i.e., governments and armies, which we don’t. We can point our cameras at 20 million AIDS orphans in Africa – and counting, but there are not enough assets in the world to solve a problem on that scale.
When we keep showing people over and over and over problems on a scale too big to resolve, they simply switch out. The flood of images of all this pain and misery has caused compassion fatigue and, rather than motivating people to help to whatever degree they can, has simply overwhelmed them…and they no longer look at the images…the images have lost their impact.
Rather than buy a book of images of poverty and starvation, send the same amount to Oxfam or one of the other organizations trying to feed the hungry. At least that is more useful than gawking at still more photos of pain and suffering.
DAH is and always has been my favorite photographer. He is a damn fine photographer. But there is a kind of cult here that seems to believe that because of that, he is infallible at anything he chooses to attempt.
Jim. I understand what your saying but see the problem not in a photographer wanting to communicate, and we can’t generalize with photographers intentions, but the perversion of certain sections of the media such as the tabloids, putting the responsibility in the hands of people like Murdoch, not some individual free-lancer who, may or may not be naive to the capitalistic tendencies.
As far as publishing goes, that dosn’t mean that that same person who has bought a book on conflict, or whatever, can’t still donate to OXFAM, and as importantly, talk to others about the inequalities of societies around this planet.
Dont let the negativity get you down Jim. Its clear that it can weigh you down.
Jim.. something just occured to me about the weight and size of humanitarian problems that get you down so much. One thing I’ve noticed traveling through different societies is, if you have time to spend to watch, you’ll notice that a lot of the time there is someone there who is doing what they can, looking out for those less privalaged than others. Of course its all relative to that society so we can’t make judgments from our standpoint, as that would be like someone say in Japan looking at our society making judgments of our sense of well being compared to there sense of whats expected from society.
I’m sure your already well aware of this but I find sometimes its good to be reminded that its small increments that make a difference. hope i dont sound like I’m preaching but rather, just reminding myself of what I think too.
JIM,
I am pretty sure that this will not convince you but sill, wanted to share a story. I was fortunate to attend during Look3 this year a breakfast with James Nachtwey who was in town to present his more recent work about resistant strain of Tuberculosis XDR-TB (see below) and obviously continue to raise awareness.
http://www.xdrtb.org/
Jim explained that as a photographer who cares for these issues and who wants to raise awareness to the mass media, you do always ask yourself the question on whether you are actually having an impact, whether you are just exploting the misery of others with no ability to influence what is happening. Jim related a story that he was in Africa (Ethiopia) at a time of a famine in the 90s and he was able to have his story published in front page of the New York Times (or Time maganize I cannot remember). 10 or 15 years later, he met the person who was in charge of the relief efforts in Ethiopia at that particular time and the person came to thank him. He told him that from the moment his pictures ran on the cover page, the money started pouring to help those in need in that country and enabled thousands of lives to be saved… Hearing this and knowing the impact this had really validated for Jim his work and his engagement of all these years… Obviously, I am not naive enough to think that all photographers have the same pure motives as Jim and many look for sensationalism that will get them a World Press Award and I also know that many causes cannot be solved… Africa is still devastaed by hunger and wars and one famine is coming actually as we speak right now in Ethiopia but it is possible to have an impact… At least in some instances and if only for that, this would be worth it….
Eric
Sadly, Jim, you’ve become a caricature of yourself.
If you don’t have the answers then quit tearing down those asking the questions
BURNIANS,
JIMMY has a point …sometimes I feel the same:…”rather than motivating people to help to whatever degree they can, has simply overwhelmed them…and they no longer look at the images…”
yes, I have to admit…I FREEZE …
“Human kind cannot bear much reality.”
T.S. Eliot
and it’s very hard for you Photographers :
“It is one thing to photograph people. It is another to make others care about them by revealing the core of their humanness.”
Paul Strand (American Photographer, 1890-1976)
BUT ,BUT,BUT,
it’s too late to be pessimists… We, Civilians Count on YOU …
cause
‘INDIVIDUALLY , WE ARE ONE DROP. TOGETHER, WE ARE AN OCEAN”
Ryunosuke Satoro
P.S Civilian’s house is full …I will be back…Never Give Up …cause I LOVE YOU ALLL
Bryan..
i got u r email…thanks …make sense…
plz check yours …
im away from internet (in athens) for 4 days…
regardless i do wanna offer a “peace offer”…
hurting each other is not fun…
plz check your email.. with my questions and reservations..
in the meantime , my apologies..
but plz email me back..
and i will be more specific when i “return”..
u dont deserve any bad reputation…or bad mouthing…
i just lost it when i saw my name in the flickr “hater list”
and then Ben ‘s joke ( which rubbed me wrong )..
etc…
so..again i shouldnt get into defensive mode..
i still in a way stand behind my flickr views and ideas but u or ben or rafal or joni..
have nothing to do with it..
peace
coming back soonest
big hug
BJARTE
to answer your question from a while ago – i think chapter 3 – daydream – is my fav of the galleries (one to 4, click on the number at bottom of page).
http://www.bjarteedvardsen.com/tredjekapittel01_eng.html
generally i think your site is coming together well.. although it is still a little difficult on navigation.. the simplest sites i have seen tend to work with a basic menus down left hand side, with sub categories if needed..
the cleaner and easier to navigate – the better..
what do others here think?
d
David
Thanks. The funny thing about “daydream station” (sonic youth reference…) is that I’ve rarely had the intention of making the photographs specifically for that project, they’ve just been put together after. It’s been evolving very loosely.
The thing with my website is that I’m developing it step-by-step, but I need to be convinced that each step is necessary to the site before I do the step. So if I need to make the navigation better & easier I need to know specifically how I’m going to work it out before I do it. For instance, having the menu centered works best for me, as “the gray box” is always centered no matter how you adjust the window.
Rafal…
I aspire one day to become as great a photographer and as wise a person as you dream you are. Till then, I’ll just have to be happy I guess knowing that I’m less of a bully than you actually are. Have a great weekend. Over and out.
Herve,
You posted that you are in France. Are you in Paris? I only know you from Burn posts, but if you’re interested we could grab a drink together. Feel free to email me or call. 06 99 56 92 10
David
Now some comments back to you, about your site. I’m a bit insecure about one sentence in the statement for your “Decade” project..
It says in “Eastern Europe it has provided a first taste of mass youth culture while in the states it has reached it’s commercial peak.”
If “it” meaning “popular music”, then why has it not reached the commercial peak here in Europe also? When will it reach it? And why only talk aout the eastern part of Europe and not the rest of Europe? A lot of the countries you mention in the start of your statement is in the western part. And isn’t your project specifically about electronic music? “Popular music” isn’t necessarily “electronic”, but you probably knew that…
You probably know more about this than me and I’m just being curious and asking silly questions, as always.
“And isn’t your project specifically about electronic music?”
…I know it’s not only about music, but how people respond to music, but anyways…
David Bacher
Where did you find this pineapple plantation documentary? I’d like to see it.
DAH,
Just read at http://www.davidalanharveypresents.com about the show in Washington.
So will you exhibit the same prints as you did in NYC?
Yeah Bjarte,
I saw the documentary on French television this past summer I believe. I just did a quick Google search and here’s a site that talks about what was presented in the film.
http://www.pan-uk.org/Projects/Food/poisoning.html
bjarte- the text, my site and the edits are not very good :o) rebuilding this weekend..
@panos – If you are addressing me, I have not sent you an email. Nor received anything from you. If you are speaking to someone else, I apologize for the confusion.
Happy Halloween or Hallo-win !!!
I LOVE you all…
P.S KATIE I am watching you…I love you with the book or not :)))
MARIKINSKI , I LOVE your work…
DAVIDB, you strong in rebuilding…I like your middle name F???
VIVA UNIVERSE…I will be back…
bryanformhals interesting as i got some slagmail from you and some of goons from a flickr group you belong to
Bryan Formhals…???
hmmm…
plz email me here:
innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com
i need to share something with u in private…
“someone” sent me an email pretending its you…and i emailed back…
i cant post it in public…( when u read it u will see why i cant post it )..
but i would like u to be aware of that…etc
again, sorry for the confusion also…
but … hmmm … now im even more confused…
i do believe that u never emailed me but i just want to make sure we are on the
same page..
anyway, big hug and respect
Imants…
u2…???????????????
same here..
all kinds of emails..
supposedly sent by “Bryan Formhals”…
again Bryan, sorry for the confusion…
now i see…
panos & Imants under attack…
ahhhhhhh
@Imants & @Panos: Nope, never sent anything. It’s unfortunate that someone needs to take internet bickering to the next level, which seems to be identity theft. Whatever, you want to say about anyone on either Burn or HCSP, I’m fairly confident we’d all agree that this type of behavior is completely over the line.
And I know that the active members of either group would never do anything like this. We’re probably dealing with lurkers. What a shame.
There is this guy I know in Glendale who is pretty savvy at net detective work, maybe he can get to the bottom of this…. Haik! You listening?
MARTIN BRINK…
we cannot exhibit all of the prints we have in the space in NYC at the D.C. event…originally there was to be a larger space available, but almost at the last minute our space shrunk…that is why also at the last minute i insisted this not be billed as a Burn sponsored event, but rather an event with some Burn photographers being shown…
cheers, david
Welcome back MR.HARVEY,
you have been missed …:)))
HAIK,
can you please proceed to the Time Out area…???
THODORIS ,RAFAL,our PATRICIA ,PETE ,etc,etc…you are true BURNIANS…I need you all cause you are all so Unique…I COUNT ON YOU…
MyGracie wake up…
P.S I am out of time BUT I need updates cause I will be back…
AKAKY…1566 ,hmmm….what about that for a change :)))
KATIE,
I am drinking mythos beer …it’s on TOM YOUNG !!!
I am shooting my way out …keep BURN the BURN …
P.S GoodBURNing night to all…SPACECOWBOY …we need some Silent energy …:)))
LOVE
PANOS
Sent you an email.
IMANTS,
help me help you.
I have the leash ready… HAPPY HALLOWEEN. BWHAHAHAHAHA ….
Cheers ya’all.
HAIK,
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S cheerios …Now I can go to sleep…
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/31/happy-halloween-from-audrey-are-you-afraid/
Happy Halloween from France!!! WE ARE MEAN. DONT EFF WITH US.
WE ALSO HAVE GRANDMAS ON OUR SIDE IF PUSH COMES TO SHOVE. THEY DO NOT NEED COSTUMES.
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/29/popcorn-grandmas/
And so you know, lovely ladies are from from Hardcore Disneyland Photography(HCDP) modeling agency.
BRYAN
Don’t worry – we’ll find the fake.
Haik I trashed mine as they appeared but the email address that Panos got from Bryan looks the same as the source of mine. Whoever it is was sure read a heap of timeout and the family essay as the info is very specific…………. me I don’t really care and it is the first time I have received such junk
there was an incident of people stealing identity here, when the hcsp discussion thread first came on burn an while ago..
by
bryan has real reason to be pissed..
To David Alan Harvey and all Burners,
Happy Halloween, Bodacious Belltane, and Awesome All Souls Day!
¡A el Señor Harvey y todos los Incendiares, muchos felicidades del dia de los Muertos!
Miramientos,
no worries… no problem….
all that has nothing to do with Bryan , of course…
moving on…
lets forget about it..
really … who cares …
all good…
happy Halloween everybody..
Yeah, not a big deal. Moving on.
Good to know Jared and Panos both live in LA…
Hey hey hey. What’s that supposed to mean?
laughing!!!!!!!….
:)
jared?
homophobic?
seriously though… i wish girls would adore me like they do with jared…
jared is the cute guy…….
me? hmmm,… maybe next life……
David B…:)
i hear u man…hopefully , Bryan is not pissed …
we all know better than that….
good day today…..
heavy rain in athens …
( women still carry moustaches…)
yeah i know , i know… couple beers later, and its not a big deal
peace
So what’s everyone shooting?
Halloween didn’t really go off here, not many trick or treaters at all! However the indie bar I shoot at did go off! 80% of the crowd all dressed up to look suitably ghoulish!
Mind you, some bugger had tried to break into my car while I was shooting. What I can’t work out is who the hell would want to break into a beaten up old 91 Camry with nearly 300,000kms on the clock (and worth about 500 bucks)!
Finally got to bed at 4.30am; and yes I definately feel 20 years older than those I’m shooting. But it was great fun! Got the best pic after the gig out on the street outside the bar.
Oh; and earlier on had to answer the question; “Can you photograph me so my boobs look big?”!!! Ahh, the priorities of the young!
Ross
What was your answer ? :)
“Sorry love; they don’t need any help!” I mean she was young enough to be my daughter and I don’t want to sound like a sleazy old man…
You always get asked to take pics when out at night, so you take a quick snap and tell them if they want a copy to flick off an email. Only about 1 in 10 end up emailing- then I delete them all. They’e happy, got something to put up on Bebo or Facebook!
It’s like photographing skate boarders, all they seem worried about is that their shoes are crisp and sharp in the pic!
Just shot 20 GB in 7 hours and even took out long stretches to talk and drink :))) but I also shot video on 5D MKII. . . was in Ceausescu’s Palace, the second largest building in the world for a party in a decadent neo-classical 10,000 sq foot room with lots of scantily dressed full breasted Romanian women smiling at me. Wow! get women tipsy and you have great, great access! Oh, I also spoke with American Ethan Hawke. He’s the same in person as in ‘Before Sunrise’ and ‘Before Sunset’ :)
@dellicson: no way! brilliant!
BURN and the Bourgeoisie …
ROSSY. yeap, the priorities of the young generation …
Oh, I liked the cock fighting from your gallery !!!
P.S Where are you pissers ??? too much Halloween yellow water …
Where are my BURNINANS in Africa ???
P.S PANOS I see only “thick” smiles under the moustaches …hmmm…
it might be the ouzo…:)))
damnit it I LOVE YOU ALL
scantily dressed full breasted Romanian women smiling at me….
that was it…… moving bucharest………..
enough with that city of mustache…:(
PANOS, focus…
DAVIN wrote : “get women tipsy and you have great, great access!”
be ready to TIP :))) you might run back for the moustaches :)))
Civi; Cheers for that. Off to bed soon, I’m too old for late nights/early mornings :-)
ROSSY,
yeap, the priorities of our generation :)))
Nice dreams !!!
November is IN … what left to BURN ???
Civi; Being older has proved to be advantageous when shooting this project. The kids seem to be as interested in why an old codger like me should be interested in their lives and vice versa!
Ross,
camry??
number one wanted car in the world..
kiddin?
everyone wants a piece of that:)
Yea but if they had actually stolen it I could’ve got replacement value for it! But you’re, a beaten up white camry stationwagon is a real babe magnet!!! :-)) Buy one in Panos and the world will be your oyster….
“But a beaten up white camry”
I just uploaded a few from last night to Lightstalkers (107-113)
http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/18440
and we love MAGNETS :)))
PANOS ,
let’s go down to ROSSY’s place…I see no moustaches :)))
DAVIDB,
wake up…we are moving to “better ” places :)))
KATIE,
2 days in a row..no sign…I bet you are following your family arouns.
EMCD,
safe travels,
JUSTIN,
I am trying to be more academian …hmmmm….irrelevant
P.S I am out for now…BURN photographers …shoot from your heart and please don’t clog your arteries
it will show :))) VIVA …I don’t know …when I will be back
this may interest people:
http://www.cdp.edu.au/cdp/cdp-award
So the photographer, it seems from his post, shot this “Children of Lead” essay without any idea of what he is actually going to do with them? He seems to think that simply shooting them is enough. Showing them on Burn for a bunch of other photographers to fawn over surely is not going to help anyone.
Jim, perhaps rereading the photographer’s comment and also the statement under his essay would help to understand what he’d like to do.
I gather you work at a newspaper, any chance a story like this would be of interest for your readers? Could be a starting point.. or better, a step more, as publishing the essay here is already a beginning, no?
No, it wouldn’t be of interest to my readers. Folks don’t want to see misery they can’t do anything about. They simply turn the page.
As for it being posted here being a start, I doubt that. Only folks seeing it here are other photographers hoping to find an outlet for their own pain and misery photos.
Jim, throwing everybody (be it the readers of the newspaper, be it the readers of this site) in one basket tells a lot more about you than about any of those readers.
Have a nice Sunday, beautiful weather here.. I guess that’s of interest to everyone, should be an easy subject enough to write about.
Eva, I’ve been in the newspaper game a very long time. Readers really are pretty vocal about their aversion to gloom and doom photography. So are advertisers. But don’t get me started on that subject.
And I’m obviously adverse to doom and gloom photography. I’ve done my share. It was a waste of resources.
Jim…
You’re wrong on this one.
I agree with you to the extent that those children won’t be saved because of this essay. But to insist that *nothing* good can come out of this, referring both to the photographer’s effort and to the publication of the work here…
Well, tell me something Jim… do you see the future??
As Jared said, even if a single person is moved by this work to help those people in any way—let alone an NGO such as the MSF taking an interest, which could lead to actual and measurable difference in their lives—this work will have achieved *something*.
Thodoris, look at the words you are typing. “if a single person is moved.” “could lead to actual and measurable difference.” THEN the work would have achieved something. But that’s not likely to happen. Because even now thousands of photographers are moving about the world shooting hundreds of thousands of images of pain and misery. And these will simply become lost in the deluge.
More likely is that the photographer will be off to shoot some different pain and misery somewhere else in the world. He appears to have a passion for photographing misery, but no specific plan as to how his photos might accomplish that in the real world.
Thodoris, I think the future will be pretty much like the past.
EVERYONE:
It should be quite obvious by now that Jim will never part with his mantra that “nothing can be done.” So why bother even discussing it with him. Barring a visit from three spirits in the middle of the night, Jim will still be the same man who despises issue driven documentary photography and all things which engender hope.
I would suggest the next time DAH posts work like this and Jim makes his inevitable sour comments about the hopelessness of it all, that he just be ignored.
The whole post becomes worthless because Jim manages to take a discussion about a photographer’s work and the issue they photographed to a discussion about him. This, I do not believe is the point of BURN.
Just my two cents.
Jim…
The “measurable difference” was in the parenthetical sentence in reference to help coming from an NGO and not from a single individual.
I agree that *probably* nothing will happen. Where I (and I think others too) find fault in your assessment is your *absolute certainty*.
Now, the photographer’s motivation for choosing such a subject is a completely separate issue and if fact on that one I might be even more cynical than you. To be clear here, I don’t mean Michael specifically. I refer this to the trend you have mentioned in many of your comments.
Pete…
You might be right.
Pete, excellent advice. These photographers will find in their real world experience that the world will lavish unlimited praise on them for their efforts.
JIM:
Sounds to me like that bothers you… Maybe THAT is the real issue here.
Pete, I think the discussion should be about the effectiveness of this sort of photography. I really wish to hear about some essays on the subject. I am sure there must be some. I think it is only serious arguement that can change my mind.
Take the Sinclair photographer that Bob posted about. At the bottom of the link he posted, there was a line about how the girl complained to the photographer “Everyone wants to photograph me but no one wants to do anything to help me.” (it might not be the exact quote but its pretty much what she said). So how many photographers were out there promising to help this girl – Let me take your picture and I will tell the world of your plight – and nothing came of it. How many pictures of this girl had been taken before one photographer was prompted to go a step further. Someone mentioned Eugene W Smith. I guess we are all aware of his story on minimata. When he shot that story it was news. And further he quite a bit more than shoot a story and walk away. He was quite the activist.
Yesterday I looked on the web with regard to this story of Michael Mullady’s. This is not a new story, even if it’s news to us. Wikipedia had a good article on it. Steps have already been taken and been in the pipeline for years to deal with this problem in La Oroya. True, minining companies/big business being what they usually are, its been like pulling hen’s teeth to make changes that improve these people’s lives. There are NGOs involved. The government of Peru is involved, although conflicted because it gains from the mine. (Although I can’t see any reason why they should stop receiving their cut so long as the mine continues operation). Anyway it appears the pollution is not as bad as it has been, though there is still some way to go. If NGOs are already in on it, then action is already underway. It seems now that shareholders of the company are the people who should be targeted by Michael.
I must say that I find Michael’s response quite smug and self-righteous. He thinks it’s enough to take pictures. As indicated by the Sinclair story, I do not. And I do not think a book is they way to bring about change. I do think this photographer is thinking a lot about his own path to glory. But he is a very good photographer and I think he will get there whatever he chooses to photograph. The problem of funding is a problem for all of us. It’s a problem for anyone who wants to save the world or have a project of any kind. It’s a problem. I think it was a little bit in poor taste for Michael to refer to his own financial needs and career aspirations in this context. For me it suggested his approach as the rush in rush out type of photographer.
Jim.
Hi. It’s me again. A couple of things. You never answered me yesterday. I’m still waiting. It’s a simple hypothetical, shouldn’t be that hard.
If I’m right and you’re wrong, and some help is given to these people, even if it be just basic care, as a result of these photos, does that make it okay that Michael shot this story?
Simple. Answer it. I’m going to ask it every time you show your face, every time you dodge it. (sorry
everyone else)
And until we see evidence that you shot “pain and misery” in the past I’ll just say it — I don’t believe you. Your tone is not one who has seen it and moved on to other happier things… Nope, I don’t buy it.
Jared, honestly, I don’t really care what you believe.
It seems that most people who have these issues regarding photography are more uncomfortable with the medium itself than the photography on a case by case basis.
I wonder, Andrea and Jim, whether you would object to stories being written about these people, complete with quotes. I have a feeling you would have no such objection — because the subjects likeness wouldn’t be portrayed in a realistic manner and spread all over the world to be an object of pity. Am I right?
Still won’t answer Jim? Are you that scared of maybe being wrong?
If it’s at all possible, writing about it is even more useless than photographing it. Most folks don’t read anything not related to school or work anymore.
actually Jim, that’ll be
“most folks in my small county in Texas, USA, don’t read anything not related to school or work anymore”.
i think i speak for the rest of the world when I state that I don’t want Jim Powers of a small county in Texas, USA, to make sweeping generalisations on my behalf.
1/3 of high school graduates never read another book for the rest of their lives.
42 percent of college graduates never read another book after college.
80 percent of U.S. families did not buy or read a book last year.
70 percent of U.S. adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years.
57 percent of new books are not read to completion.
70 percent of books published do not earn back their advance.
70 percent of the books published do not make a profit.
(Source: Jerold Jenkins, http://www.JenkinsGroupInc.com)
Jared, the difference that matters between text and image is not about the likeness of the person. I have no issue with showing people’s likeness. Seeing a story about this on television would be better than taking beautiful photographs and I do think text is more important than images to make the case. I think if you’ve got an important story to tell, photography is not the best way to tell it these days. Given the way photojournalism is now, it seems to me that this sort of work is almost irrelevant and is almost merely art. I think that more and more photojournalism is being shown in art galleries as it finds fewer and fewer opportunities to reach a wide audience through traditional print media. More and more documentary photojournalism relies on its funding through art organisations. I don’t think art galleries are the venue to spur people to action. There was a time when artists believed that they could change the world. The Surrealists for example. I think they only changed the way art was made. Burn is closer to being like an art gallery than being like an online magazine though its not strictly either.
Magazines don’t want photos of dead and dying people next to their ads for Rolex watches.
2/3 of High School Graduates read books in the rest of their lifetime.
58 percent of college graduates will read books after college.
20 percent of U.S. families bought or read a book last year.
30 percent of U.S. adults have been in a bookstore in the last five years.
plus Jim:
we’re not all from the United States.
You’re forgetting about newspapers, magazines, jounrals, online content, electronic reading devices, and even the radio. The demise of books doesn’t equal the demise of reading or the demise of mankinds appetite for knowledge.
I’m beginning to suspect you are a moron Jim.
Ben, that stuff doesn’t fit his worldview, so it’s not real.
Andrea. Thanks for responding. Interesting then, that you choose to view photography so often. Why do you think there aren’t more people like you? I understand you have your opinion as to the best way to get the info out, but what’s wrong with communicating the problems through all the ways you mentioned *plus photography.
Surely different people take in information in different ways, isn’t the goal to reach as many people as possible. You like seeing this stuff in film, I prefer photography — wouldn’t someone who is concerned be trying to reach the both of us? Or rather, if their skills lied in documentary film making they’d do that, while a photographer would naturally use photography?
We choose to view photography so often because…we’re photographers.
Jared, you are right. It doesn’t matter too much what I think. If someone wants to shoot suffering and injustice in the belief that they can effect change, they will do it regardless of what I think. If someone wants to shoot porn even though many think its immoral, its not going to stop them. People will shoot what they want. However, if someone’s main aim is to save the world, they should be choosing the most effective medium to work in. But I know that most people just work in a medium that they are already familiar and most comfortable. If I was Michael and seriously wanting to make a difference with my photography, I think I’d be looking really hard for stories that no one has yet heard of and go through the main channels of news. See I think books and exhibitions of news photography should come after the hard work of getting the stories out through main channels. That is why Michael’s work looks to me somewhat self-serving.
I am not totally sure of my position on all points that’s why i would like to read some essays on the topic. I think to some extent how we feel about such things is much to do with our own psychological disposition, like belief in God.
Yesterday I was looking at the environmental photographs of Nadav Kander and god they were beautiful. Profoundly beautiful. I wouldn’t want him not to take these photographs. They didn’t seem to be me to be a call to action though. They seemed to me to hold an awareness of the limitations of their power to change anything. If I were to read some words by the photographer, I might see that he has the same ostensible ambitions for his work as Michael Mullady. And then I’d be disappointed.
Recently I was looking at the online photobooks of the humanitarian photographer Fazal Sheikh. Again beautiful work. He’s been doing this sort of thing all his working life it seems. But I think it has no impact. And I think he is appealing to the wrong audience. It would probably fit in with what Martin Parr is thinking of when he talks about exploitation and photography, though I think he thinks of it in a much wider context altogether. Sheikh’s books on India are about the widows of Vrindavan who, having lost their husbands, find they no longer have a place in the home so they find their way to the ashrams of vrindavan where they earn a pittance by chanting prayers for hours every day. It’s a miserable and unjust existence. (Its not true of all Indian widows but to be sure many). Even some of the youngest widows often end up in this plight. I didn’t read the texts about the children but I am sure there is a great deal of injustice described within the pages there also – maybe I will go read it now. The thing is, things are changing in India but it’s not because of his books. It’s because of politics and modernisation.
I am going to India shortly. I will photograph everything I come across if I can. I have no single set mission though I have a general approach and lots of ideas. One out there idea I had was about Indian beggers. Normally I don’t photograph beggers but in my minds eye i saw a way of representing them that I think could be meaningful and not merely voyeuristic. I am very unlikely to do that project but if i did, I would definitely not make any claims to being able to change anything for these people. And if i were to do it, to render any benefit whatsoever to the people I photographed, I feel I should give them each a copy of the book.
“One out there idea I had was about Indian beggers”
wow. that is really “out there”.
“I am very unlikely to do that project but if i did, I would definitely not make any claims to being able to change anything for these people. And if i were to do it, to render any benefit whatsoever to the people I photographed, I feel I should give them each a copy of the book.”
wow i bet those indian beggars would be over the moon with a copy of a book with their photograph in it, joyously begging away on the streets of mumbai. i’m sure it will take pride of place in their library rooms, only to be brought out on special occasions and flicked through wearing white gloves.
Jim, I still don’t get your point. Because nobody (in the USA seemingly) is going to read it, it’s wrong to take pictures of? How did the NGO’s and associations that know of the situation (some seem even trying to change something) learn about it, by photographers never taking a picture and journalists never writing/talking about it?
How comes that we know a lot about the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and almost nothing about what goes on in Chad (replace this with any “minor” war in Africa..) I think we do because there’s people out there doing their photographic/journalistic work.
ANDREA:
“So how many photographers were out there promising to help this girl – Let me take your picture and I will tell the world of your plight – and nothing came of it.”
I don’t think any photographer should ever make a statement like that to a subject. Now, if it is a statement were the photographer is telling the subject that they want to tell the subject’s story and bring the issue to the attention of people who know nothing about it, that is different.
“And I do not think a book is they way to bring about change.”
First I think most photographers will tell you that they never make any money on books. DAH has said this often as has Bill Allard.
If a photographer wants to bring about change then the path would seem to me to shoot the story and get it in front of as many people as possible, be it in the media, gallery shows or books. Bringing the story to the attention of as many people as possible is the key.
As far as funding goes, books and gallery shows do help photographers get noticed for their work by NGO’s and other philanthropic groups and individuals whom may in turn grant funding to these photographers to continue their work.
“I think if you’ve got an important story to tell, photography is not the best way to tell it these days.”
That is crap. With the age of digital photography and the internet it is easy and inexpensive as opposed to shooting film and trying to get the photos in print. And a story can go viral on the internet in hours and reach millions.
Even publishers of newspapers and magazines will tell you that a reader FIRST LOOKS AT THE PHOTOGRAPH, then the headline and then the story.
In an age where everyone is obsessed with visuals, photography will continue to be a powerful way to communicate.
@ Jim and Ben
Don’t forget that 92% of statistics are made up.
Pete, a book may not bring you much money on sales but it can bring you money through other means, can’t it? By winning awards and by being on your resume, grants funding. If there were no value in making a book, no one would do it. I have impression that this is how Kazal Sheikh makes his living.
Yes books and awards can help with grant funding. It is much easier for a well-known photographer with books, major gallery shows and awards to their credit to be on the radar of sources of funding.
I am sure DAH can speak more to this.
It is not about the money. No photographer goes into photojournalism or documentary work to make a lot of money. Most times any money they do have goes to self-fund projects that are important to them.
It seems that many of the older generation here are showing signs of a loss of real positive energy towards change.
Imants, what positive change do you see happening in photography? Besides Flickr, that is.
“One out there idea I had was about Indian beggers.”
“And if i were to do it, to render any benefit whatsoever to the people I photographed, I feel I should give them each a copy of the book.”
Very generous, Andrea. Don’t forget to get their mailing addresses.
.
On the second anniversary…
Here’s one example of one photographer leveraging their images and modest ‘celebrity’ to
more a specific interest forward.
The second and third entries are a little more relevant
http://blog.livebooks.com/category/contributors/robert-glenn-ketchum/
JIM, the idea that writing is ultimately futile flies in the face of historical experience.
Pete, I am not remotely talking about making a fortune. I am just talking about making a living. We all want to make a living doing what we love.
mtomalty, actually if i was to do it, I think it would be better to pay them to sit for me and give them a print, if not a copy of the book. But I was simply making the point that the only likely benefit to come from such a project is to give the subject something directly. And who doesn’t feel good about having a portrait of themselves that portrays them in a dignified manner.
ANDREA:
You made the comment: “I think it was a little bit in poor taste for Michael to refer to his own financial needs and career aspirations in this context. For me it suggested his approach as the rush in rush out type of photographer.”
I have read and reread Michael’s statement and comments and I do not see where he puts his financial needs and career aspirations ahead of his subject.
Maybe I missed something.
……….photography will just become integrated into multi media communication nothing special just part of the whole package. Just a useful tool
Jim my take is that even flickr will be a elitist junk site, people will get sick of posting for the sake of posting and revert back to sharing and discussing their photos to friends and family. Then we will have the guys and gals trying to relive the glory days of 2010…….
Books will still be alive though most will be download and print on demand if we get rid of these archaic copywrite laws of ours that really only benefit publishers. People will take from each other on the www dot world and remix, a couple of images here, a bit of text, some audio etc and presto ………. hang on! that brings me back to where I stared here ……….photography will just become
……. but we will still have those who think it alone will change the world and show essays similar but more sophisticated than those shown here on burn ………. hang on again ! that brings me back to where I stared here ……….photography will just become
Jim;
I think that photographers have made a difference. Marcus Bleasdale’s work in DRC certainly opened people’s eyes to what was going on there. And; aid etc began to pour in because of it. Did he stop the conflict? No. Did he help raise awareness? Yes.
But the difference with Bleasdale’s work is that he was there for a very long period of time. It wasn’t a “Let’s spend three weeks here and then flit off to another crisis so I can raise MY profile” He showed real commitment to a relatively unknown crisis.
To my mind newspaper photography is probably the most cynical of all photography because it is usually of the “whip in, take a cliché misery shot and then move onto the next crisis” style of photography. That’s not a dig at you Jim, just an observation. :-)
In some ways it all comes down to each photographer’s code of ethics. The main thing is that you can look at yourself in the mirror with the total belief that you are not being cynical or exploiting anyone.
Mtomalty, yes and look how much effort he put into it. This examples serves my arguement. This photographer is a real activist. And even he admits the impact of his pictures is minimal compared to everything else he and others did that went into making the changes he was seeking.
Pete, I didn’t say he put himself first, did I? But his talking about producing books struck me, when I read it as self-serving. The people are not going to benefit from this book. Only Michael will. Michael will be the person who gains most from this project. It can only be so. His writing about it in his bio can for no other reason than that he hopes that some viewer will come forward and offer him the financial assistance he wants to continue on with his projects. Somebody may well come forward and offer him money to continue his projects but I think its in poor taste to ask for it here. In writing that in his bio, he takes the attention off the subject of the essay and onto the needs of the photographer. That’s my feeling about it.
Imants, I think Flickr faces a time soon coming when it becomes irrelevant, with better technology where most people will never remove the images from camera memory (many younger folks are there already to some degree with camera phones) but simply shoot photos, blast them to their friends over wifi enabled P&S’s, and delete the images. Most Flickr photos are disposable, anyway.
Kid’s blast them away now I do workshops based on point shoot and delete and they are very productive
Sounds to me, Jim, like your readers are a bunch of insular country hick morons. Am I right? That’s how you pretty much describe them.
“a bunch of insular country hick morons”
Now that’s a real classy argument…. Nothing like a sweeping generalisation to raise the tone of conversation….
Some time ago I made the argument that one should be careful about what they post in the internet. Pointing our that you never know who is reading and as DAH says, there are a lot of influential people and people who may be looking for new talent to hire for work.
“Sounds to me, Jim, like your readers are a bunch of insular country hick morons. Am I right? That’s how you pretty much describe them.”
This is one of those statements. I think Rafal is making the point that he thinks this is Jim’s opinion not necessarily his own, but obviously it can be read wrong.
Pete;
It’s just common good manners that are needed. Nothing special. :-)
Just because you don’t agree with someone’s point of view doesn’t mean there’s a need to get personal and generally drag the level of conversation to the gutter.
ʃaːdənˌfʁɔʏ̯də
Will there be money in photography …..yea for service providers, advertisers etc. The rest well we will do it for free, like us the punters on DAH’s site…… we give information away for free along with tuition and most of all our images. See Mr Harvey is really a service provider (all be it a financially poor one) not a photographer……..
Will people still innovate, create in the future despite there being no cash cow. of course after all it is just part of our lives, and the way we do stuff …….. many will create as part of their contribution to the world and on the way hope to change the world in a small way
……….. my contribution so far…………….. heck I have planted a forest of trees and plants in my career as a landscaper, maybe that tree that you are sitting under and lazing through that book was planted by my fellow landscaper and the book well that is the foresters’ tale……… now I am off to download my latest book and print the one page that I need.
Ross, hey I’m not the one generalizing. I’m only going by the description Jim gives of his own readers. Tell him to stop generalizing. But honestly, that’s very much what it sounds like to me.
Pete, hey, I won’t get hired in Jim’s town. Honestly, I never wanted to live in Texas.
I just saw that one of the stories on 60 Minutes tonight is about the Japanese mafia. The same story that Anton is working on…
Should be the second story. 60 Minutes starts at 7:00 ET
I think ultimatly what we get from Jim’s own descriptions of his own readership is that fact that Jim is a lousy, and lazy editor. Newspapers should challenge their readers and show them the uncomfortable truth. Editors should not condescend and patronize, dumb down their content to what they perceive is the intellectul level of their readership, and ultimately, if their readers are lazy, insular and ignorant a GOOD editor would try and change that. Jim, is not a good editor. He is a lazy editor, and a coward afraid to challenge his own readers. Jim, yur newspaper sounds like one of those free rags one can find on the subway. Im sure you run cover stories on kittens being saved by firefighters.
Rafal, actually, our little county of 20,000 people has over 300 working artists and a gallery that sells a lot of work, more than the galleries in much larger counties around us. We are a bedroom community that tends to attract a lot of retired executives, etc, from Houston, Dallas and Fort Worth. We have nine Bed and Breakfasts, and an active theater group that produces six to eight plays annually. We have been described in various publications as the fastest growing art community in south Texas, and attract a lot of people here. You’ve probably characterized our folks incorrectly.
You’ve characterized them. I’ve never been there, I can only go by what you say about them. You’ve characetrized them as insular, uninterested, afraid and lazy. Those were your words, Jim.
Rafal, we’re a small town, 80 year old newspaper. It is not a free paper, they are sold on newsstands and by subscription. We are definitely, though, and deliberately a community oriented, hyper local newspaper. After 80 years, we know our readership pretty well and focus on the positive and upbeat. Which is why I’m here. I’m sick of pain and misery photography.
Rafal, those are YOUR words, not mine.
Saccharine. Fluff. No thanks. How about balance? Do you run stories on kittens being saved by firefighters?
Folks usually resort to ad hominem attacks when they are desperate. That doesn’t become you, Rafal.
Im just interested about your paper. If it is all upbeat, then it isnt a newspaper. The world IS NOT all upbeat, Jim. A NEWSPAPER should report the world. Do you not see the logic? Even if it is just a local newspaper, your twn isn’t Utopia, Jim, it can’t all be upbeat all the time.
No, you are attacking me personally, having given up attacking my opinions.
Last month our county had one house fire, no auto fatalities and no murders. That’s pretty typical. It’s not Utopia, but we think it’s pretty close.
Gosh, Jim, it sounds boring to me. Im not attacking you, Jim the person, I am attacking you, Jim the Editor. I think as an editior you are doing a lousy job by pandering to the lowest perception you have of your own readers, refusuing to challenge them and just running what is most likely fluff. That is not an attack on you, it is an attack on the job you are doing as you describe it. Ans an extrapolation of your input on Burn, how you never fail to attack work that in any way challenges the Leave it to Beaver world you want to inhabit. Utopia you may think it is, but I would certainly prefer to stay away from your Utopia, it sounds more like something out of the Twighlight Zone to be honest. People shouldn’t be coddled, sheltered and protected. That’s what we do to kids, not adults.
Then our little corner of the world is probably not where you would want to be. Different strokes for different folks.
As much as you think it sucks, I go to work every day, shoot lots of photos, and get paid to do it. There are Pulitzer prize winning photographers these days who, by their own word, are not so lucky.
@Imants: “Will people still innovate, create in the future despite there being no cash cow. of course after all it is just part of our lives, and the way we do stuff …….. many will create as part of their contribution to the world and on the way hope to change the world in a small way.”
I think the next year or so, we’ll see more organization and collaboration amongst photographers. The number of collectives, blogs and zines is accelerating in my estimation. And photographers are getting wiser about distribution, presentation and social marketing. I think the days where you simply present your work without interacting with your audience are waning. Of course, the superstars can get away with keeping a distance, but I think the most successful photographers of the future will be those that make a direct connection with their audience, like DAH for example.
But this can be done on the micro level as well. How many fans or eyeballs does a small collective that’s publishing their own work need in order to self-sustaining? Nobody knows, but we’re in the days of micro-funding (see Kickstarter.com) and publishing on demand. 20×200 has shown that there’s an appetite for affordable prints out there. Lay Flat (http://www.layflat.org/) is doing interesting things with publishing.
It’s smart to connect, participate and contribute. This is one reason I gravitate to Flickr. I find new photographers every single day whose work I truly enjoy. And I have new people following me everyday as well. But it’s only one distribution channel. And it’s not for everyone, which is why we have blogs, Tumblr’s, personal websites.
Photographers are going to try new things whether there’s any chance of success or not. It really all depends if you want to join the party or sit on the sidelines, summoning the dark clouds of pessimism…
peace,
Bryan
The problem with the web is that it’s so hard to convert anything you do here into money. This website, for example, for all the recognition, is a huge black hole into which Harvey (and others) is throwing money.
People do other things for money and still enjoy their work…….. stuff like this can be a bonus in life …… videoing in the back of Tuva transmitting the performance piece via the www to Toronto while Mick is taking stills in the back of Bullamakenka and transmitting his piece as Sue in Toronto integrates both into her performance………. Jim sits patiently in his office and watches the result on his one terabyte ipod sending instructions how the make it more accessible to the audience
…….sudenly one of Bob’s peoms appears on the screen.
…………………………as Martin Parr is recording it onto thumb drives in the shape of ducks and selling them at walmart which no longer has a shopfront.
…. so do you enjoy the shade from the tree I planted?
“It really all depends if you want to join the party or sit on the sidelines, summoning the dark clouds of pessimism…”
I was gonna say, “Cue Jim…” but he beat me to it.
OK, I think we all know where we stand here.
Jim, I appreciate the fact that you have never resorted to personal attack here.
Feel good, “sacharine”, kitten rescue story. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/118966611
The couple with the baby are our houseguests at the moment. The baby was born last Wed. night aboard the coast guard boat in French Creek Harbour. The couple live on Lasqueti Island, ten miles accross the water from here. They were scheduled to come here tomorrow to wait for the baby to arrive, but, she went into labour prematurly. The midwife and ambulance met the boat, but the baby was happening right NOW, and the result is the first baby ever born on a coast guard boat. Just over five pounds and doing fine.
IMHO there is too much focus on the negative. A feel good story is not automatically “fluff”, just as a set of pics of third world garbage pickers is not automatically great concerned journalism. I’m not a journalist, but like Jim, I’m not convinced that a more artistically done set of photos of the latest trendy cause will change the world.
Peace Y’all. Can we get on to something else now?
Peace Y’all. Can we get on to something else now?……..some of us have
I LOVE BURN,
it’s like a volcano…some of us are waiting and waiting and then Boom …we have an eruption and then there is the silence everything seems quiet and then again Boom …!!! BOOM , BOOM !!!
Ahhhh, BURNIANS ,
“In the end we are all separate: our stories, no matter how similar, come to a fork and diverge. We are drawn to each other because of our similarities, but it is our differences we must learn to respect.”
P.S I had to come back …cause I am cooking giant beans and oime I won’t be able to hold my silents.
tp://www.mouthfulsfood.com/forums//lofiversion/index.php/t7081.html
http://www.heptune.com/farts.html
http://www.mouthfulsfood.com/forums//lofiversion/index.php/t7081.html
you never know what you can learn in one of the best places to be …BURN me !!!
BURNIANS …Can you photograph human… eruptions( I mean all kind of eruptions) ???|
P.S I am not kidding or no?
this is for all of you …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me8aQA0VlI8
PJ Harvey – Down By The Water
did the cat ate the fish…or we will never found out…
BIG fish eats small fish …that’s the reality …or no?
amoeba are the future..
imants
why do you think that copyright only serves publishers, out of interest?
my business would have fallen flat very quickly had i not owned the copyright of photos.. which has on occasion allowed me to arrange royalties as well as sell licenses..
i agree with much of what you say..
d
Magazines don’t want photos of dead and dying people next to their ads for Rolex watches.
————————————–
I am blown away by the number of magazines dedicated to photography in the bins of my local bookstores, here in France. half of those publications just came up in the last few years (for ex. I remember POLKA, whose first issue in 2008, included a full feature on DAH and and his pictures of horses thru-out his career) and are strictly about PJ work of absolutely any type, including “misery”.
Yes, I am sure they are as struggling as the ones needing to sell Rolex watches with bloodless subjects. Then again, Where would be the merit of creation, and just about anything, otherwise?
Fantastic blue sky today. Time to take the bike out…
Copyright only came into being due to a bunch of 17th century publishers and the statute of Anne(I think) and ever since then they are the main beneficiaries. Sure the small fry made a few bucks as well but it is small change compared to the publishers. The problem is that it ties information up and cannot be freely utilised for the benefit of society at large. Educational institutions get exemptions but 10% isn’t much and easily leads to misinformed/abridged versions of content.Online books is going to be an interesting ride.
I guess most here think in terms of someone else making a buck out of one’s photographs but copyright laws spread their tentacles far and wide. Other than education the music industry cops heaps how many musicians lose copyright control sometimes out of stupidity but mostly due to misadventure and someone else keeps on reaping in the money.
Patents are a form of copyright and how many times have chemical/drug/oil companies tied stuff up over the years. It is just that things should be re-assessed what held fifty years ago or even twenty may not hold up being beneficial in today’s www dot world ( I doubt if it will happen in a fair and noble way)
……….. to go on is entering a minefield and I am not prepared to proceed in a blog situation as we have here. In the end make your own stance on the issue as there are quite diverse viewpoints and every stance steps on someone elses toes.
okay i see what you’re getting at..
the mind boggles.. a friend in the u.k. is a european lawyer handling copyright and patents of discoveries such as the human genome.. which as yet i understand have not been patented..
his brother works for the government investigating war crimes in iraq.. some really interesting stuff comes out of both of them with a bottle of whiskey.
i welcome the idea of libraries putting their resources online.. there is just the issue based around how the authors get paid..
i can even see why the orphan works lobby want to free up work.. taking from the idea that all that is produced today is a result of the past and so the past work needs to be freely available and accessible for people to build on.. researchers and artists alike..
i think it is unfortunate in a way, that photographers and artists of the future will not see the work as a main income.. unless we can move into a more self publishing, DIY approach as some bands and photographers currently do.. using the internet to cut out the distribution branch, which could be the real benefit of getting ‘signed’ to a label or publisher.
i think – hope perhaps – that with a better understanding of copyright, people such as us on this blog will be able to take advantage of the www world, rather than loose out to it..
it’s interesting that you bring up burn as an example of free education, free publication and syndication of work and ideas.. while the intention is to eventually have paying commissions and the like, it highlights perfectly the transitional stage the industry is in..
on people loosing out because of ‘stupidity’.. quite..
some next door neighbours of mine had a musical thing going.. it was very good and they were offered a deal with a major label.. offering 50 000GBP.. they went back and said 70 000 and the label paid it.. they were very pleased with themselves..
around a month later the label signed another band, which 10 years on has tasted a similar international success to my friends.. and that band.. well.. they insisted on 1M to sign.. and flights on concord across the atlantic to sign the papers.. and they got it…
people have to educate themselves about copyright and licensing if they are serious about distributing their work for money.. it is the only way they will have a clue of how to take on the big boys, and make sure that their pay is at least cashews, the king of nuts, rather than inferior which peanuts most take..
knowing about copyright and licensing is overlooked by so many.
knowing about copyright and licensing is overlooked by so many…….David most of us are young with stars in our eyes when great stuff happens
that’s true – yet that bitter and tight feeling when you know you’ve been ripped off is sickening.. and a great motivator to get in-the-know.
.. unless people are daft enough to just be happy with a ‘time’ cover.. even if it’s only a jar of pennies sold for peanuts..
photographers as celebrities enabled by magazine publication and a simple name credit is far from the point for some.. thankfully..
This website, for example, for all the recognition, is a huge black hole into which Harvey (and others) is throwing money. http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm maybe maybe not Jim
My wallet is a currently a huge black hole.
john – you’re a proper photographer then :o)
so long as some money is coming in from somewhere..
http://bophoto-mumblings.blogspot.com/2009/11/redbull.html
My wallet is a currently a huge black hole.
———————————————–
i have to rush in and relate with this one…
:)))))
But my heart is full :)
God i felt sick just typing that.
Having fun here though.
http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery/SPEAKERS-CORNER/G0000OP_np439Qx0
It may even grow into an essay one day ( when i grow up)
Vortex seems appropriate at this stage of the recession.
cheers
Ian
The french guy with the beret and the leica is interesting if you spot him.
feliz dia de los muertos……
***
DO IT JOHN (essay)
DON’T DO IT JOHN (grow-up)
money worries = http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJgSDod-PZI/AAAAAAAAAmE/12JqcpxSfDg/s1600-h/09420026.jpg
ANTON t.g. has a splendid new post in his webloginger
http://www.antonkusters.com/2009/11/02/dislocate/
marvelous, marvelous.
ANTON. That first picture is fantastic.
ALL…
i am more than a bit behind in the comments, but the copyright issue is of major importance to me…photographers who give up ownership of their images are making a big mistake imo…your work, your archive, should be treated with great respect by you…if you do not respect your ownership, then nobody else will either…every time you press the shutter you have created a piece of artistic real estate…the value of this will of course vary depending on the perceived value of this work over time and by market conditions in the editorial and art worlds…in short, you can sell your time, you can sell your prints, but you should not sell the ownership of the work itself…just to be clear…you automatically own your work unless you sign a paper waiving your right of ownership….registering with a copyright office might help a bit in a litigious situation, but you own your work anyway even without registering….you can register an entire body of work all at once….takes about 10 minutes to register hundreds or thousands of photographs in the U.S..batch registration…i am not familiar with the laws of all countries, but i do know that at Magnum we batch register and we have central offices in four countries with sub agents in many more….
IMANTS…
into the abyss we go!!
the evolution of our site here has been all organic as you know….any kind of “business plan” was of course never in my mind….please do not confuse the discussions of others with anything in my mind…as i have written many times, i want Burn to be educational and/or enlightening for all of us…whatever happens to us now, and what has happened so far, is just the most serendipitous of life flows….
i should be able to get back on skype with you in about two weeks OR we will actually meet in Oz…working on my schedule now…
cheers, david
. Catcha when I catcha David …….. http://www.etrouko.com.au/imants.htm
Jim Powers: “The problem with the web is that it’s so hard to convert anything you do here into money. This website, for example, for all the recognition, is a huge black hole into which Harvey (and others) is throwing money.”
Man, Jim, sometimes I wish you smoked a spliff when you wake up. Come on, cheer up. What other options do we have? Not to do anything for the things that we love? I mean, it’s worth some risk. It’s the only way to know if you swim or sink as well. If I had that attitude I wouldn’t step out of my door to shoot. The money, the time, all the problems it gives me. I’d rather be working for big buck and taking some holidays. But that’s not the point, is it?
ANTON,
“dislocate” is not a singular project anymore. It’s an assignment, it’s commercial, it’s art, it’s my life, all at the same time.
“dislocate” forces me to open my mind as wide as i can. It makes me not judge others and listen instead, trying to understand. I honestly believe it might even make me a better person…
Where my land is.
Funny that feeling dislocated, something that used to unsettle me and make me nervous, now actually makes me feel calm instead.I still get nervous sometimes though… but not too often anymore…Actually, I think “dislocate” is never meant to be finished. It is just the thing that makes me feel that i am a photographer…I hope it never goes away.”
THANK YOU …I am not a photographer but I will try to incorporate your “thesis” in my confused existance…hmmm…and
THANK YOU DAVIDB for the link !!!
I LOVE the Abyss BUT I am closer to the Universe (Spacecowboy)
” The Universe is very large and possibly infinite in volume; the observable matter is spread over a space at least 93 billion light years across…The Universe is old and evolving.”
MR.HARVEY,
work on your schedule cause the AUSSIES are gonna catch you…
P.S I will never give up my ownersheep …not even in my sleep…one sheep,two sheeps.
Goodnight BURNIANS…( KATIE, DAVIDB,MyGRACIE,our PATRICIA,REIMAR,PANOS,TOMY,AKAKY, HAIK,THODORIS,BOBBY
ROSSY,SIDNEY,JIM, JOHNYG,JOHNYV,PETE,ANDREAC,EVA,LASSAL,LYNN,KLEE,AYDREY, JUSTIN,KATHARINA,EMCD, KATHY,
ABELE,MARCIN,DAVIN….KERRY,MIKEC…SPACECOWBOY…oime…I LOVE YOU…I need some African BURNIANS…
adele …What are you waiting for…
oh before I go, just for the international BURNing readers
**”The term spliff is a West Indian word of Jamaican English origin, but has spread to several western countries…”Spliff” can also refer to various styles of cigarette rolled with a mixture of hashish and tobacco…”
P.S I love your mindfist JKARANKA…Viva !!!
civilian mass audience: thanks, we’re working on it…
iamparanoid is real……………. http://www.iamparanoid.net/
DAVIDB, JOHN G, CIVILIAN…
thanks…………..
x
ANTON
thanks for sharing
or
david b
thanks for posting
:))
FAO DAH; remember her?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/4070182410_205e35ce0b_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/4069424561_3a52e2d1a7_o.jpg
Happy Melbourne Cup Day everyone!
… only a couple of hours to go.
Anton, very interesting. I don’t understand what you were saying really. It sounded like art. But nice. I guess we will have to wait a long time to find out what it all means. Or maybe we never will but we will have the pictures.
Civi,
I’ve been meaning to ask for some time. What is “oime” in English? Is it like “erm” in French or am I on the wrong track?
Andrea; Everything will stop here for a an hour or so too. Every business usually has a sweepstake running. Funny, I’ve never been able to get very excited about it. Just another race… :-)
Ross,
What a Shocking result ay? ;-) Just another race? Its the only race! Even little ole Port Douglas is hopping with pretty hats but I am surprised that New Zealand is in on it though the speech giver did say that people all over the world were at celebration luncheons in honour of the race, notwithstanding that it’s probably breakfast time for some and dinnertime for others.
it’s the middle of the night.. i’ll have tea..
Have some champers David. C’mon it’s party time. :-)
Andrea; “surprised that New Zealand is in on it”
The entire country stops for it and has been into it for god knows how long! I’ve just never really been into racing. I like going to the races, take a few pics, admire the horses. I’d be n o good picking horses though, they all look good to me!
2 teas n one coffee later – okay.. champers it is..
4.30am wake this morning.. now 8.19 n sun rizing.. lovely.
iamparanoid is real……………. http://www.iamparanoid.net/
yep…yup..
this is exactly how i felt yesterday walking around omonoia square in dwntn athens ..
good light yall from grecolandia..
off to the new museum to say hi
to SOCRATES, PLATO, DAH and the rest of the iconics!!!!!!!
Goodnight BURNIANS…( KATIE, DAVIDB,MyGRACIE,our PATRICIA,REIMAR,PANOS,TOMY,AKAKY, HAIK,THODORIS,BOBBY
ROSSY,SIDNEY,JIM, JOHNYG,JOHNYV,PETE,ANDREAC,EVA,LASSAL,LYNN,KLEE,AYDREY, JUSTIN,KATHARINA,EMCD, KATHY,
ABELE,MARCIN,DAVIN….KERRY,MIKEC…SPACECOWBOY…oime…I LOVE YOU…
————-
Civilian doesn’t love me… :-(((
HERVE…I LOVE YOU MATE …
My sincere apologies to all my beloved BURNIANS you are so many …
HERVE , my French San Fransiscian friend
please, please …I was counting sheeps last night…my ownerships-sheeps and I felt dizzy…
So many BURNIANS out there …I have a little notebook and all BURNIANS are next to me
kinda like EMCD…scribblings in the dark…wherever I go, you are next to me…
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
P.S HERVE you are my first kibbutz BURNIAN …first round on my Fellow Americans…
ANDREAC,
OIME…kinda like OH MY !!!
OH my …oh my…oh my…
what can I say …never give up your dreams !!!
cause we might no have the greens BUT we have the HEART !!!
and as long as we have the HEART …the green follows …
it’s just simple Universal law…
ACTION and REACTION… we send good energy and the Universe come back with more …
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S another beautiful day … wherever you are BURNIANS…if you read this …can you smile with me…
I mean a big one …:)))
Thanks.
and before I go,
please repeat after me …
I AM AAA PHOTOGRAPHER…loud and louder :)))
P.S and …follow your dreams …one sheeps, two sheeps, 3 sheeps…
jb……..Our job is to illuminate and inform the public consciousness (or maybe more like the public conscience). Anyone who denies photojournalism’s power to inform change in the real world is blinded by cynicism…………. but the public does not have to respond if they feel what you are offering is not in their interests or they just think it sux
Watching stupid TV shows and drinking beer have their value as well
now I am off to watch some late night.. nah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
ALL….
Im really excited and dont know where to start…
i just had a 3 hour meeting with one of my favorite
MAGNUM photogs OF ALL TIMES…
mr NIKOS ECONOMOPOULOS…
first of all, NIKOS says hi to DAH…
and also JOHN VINK…
( John i didnt forget your request;)
and also hello to ALL BURNIANS….
NIKOS,
is one of the most modest , enlightened human beings i ever met..
( my complete opposite…laughing )
DAH & ANTON ,
NIKOS wanted me to transfer his congratulations for the Lucie award and blah blah…
i dont know how to do this but…
i “forced” him to “commit” to do an interview for BURN..
AND MOST IMPORTANT HE AGREES FOR AN ESSAY HERE IN BURN….
now i wish erica would provide me with the right questions …but honestly plz…
(and i say this to everybody)..
please provide me with questions…
either post them here or email me in private ( private would be easier for me ..)
Anyway,
we talked about his books, about his workshops,
about athens, about HIS COOKING abilities, about driving in greece …etc
He wanted to know about Roadtrips, Burn,about LA…
and he offered to help me on editing and help me with my work..
next week we meet in his studio where i on return offered my help on software issues,
camera tech crap and also swiping the floors and making greek coffee…
We talked about the photo “reality” in the balcan-mediterannean area…and much more…
And then i couldnt help it..
I asked him what should be my NEXT PROJECT.. my next VENICE BEACH…
Guess what.. HE ALREADY HAD AN ANSWER…
HE offered me to do a project…a two year project..something that he was thinking to start,
but he is already occupied with another idea..
( i really cant reveal what his new book-idea is all about…but i think i will get the ok..
next week..)
i was crazy enough to ask him to exhibit together if possible..the guy is brilliant…
the guy is willing to help emerging photogs any day..
Amazing…he put his whole day on hold just to meet with me…
Raining like hell in athens but i can only see “sunshine”…
Ohhh one more thing…
he had a hard time to believe that anyone even knows his name..???!!!
“im low profile” he said… “im low key”…
he was amazed and confused when i told him that he has tons of respect not only around
Burn but in the whole art world in general..
“i never did it for the money ” he added..
“i stayed true to myself”..”im not a hired gun”..he said…
but…”i can live my life with very little”…”my lifestyle is modest and simple”…
“thats how i achieved my freedom”…..
I can go on and on forever…
Nikos is brilliant”….
ok…im going to buy a pita gyros, couple Mythos beers and ill be right back…
big hug from Nikos and athens greece….
peace
Nice one Panos, keep on trucking. you’ll find your way. Your determination goes to show it pays in the end.
Keep your head, keep your cool, keep on toiling. You have the energy to go far. Just keep your head down and go for it. Learn from Nikos.
respect for your persistance.
Nice one.
ian
Ian,
thank u…
i always remember the advice u gave me last year to keep my cool,
and be modest…
Nikos also tought me today what modesty is,
but my lesson started through your advice, a year ago…
thanks Ian..
big hug and respect
Panos – that is all kinds of awesome. Thanks for sharing. Take a moment to enjoy, then go shoot.
PANOS
I’m so happy WITH you!!!
Greece isn’t so bad after all….
maybe now is your time to conquer your ghosts from the past….
and move on…..
VIVA greece and olives and ouzo…..
oh yeah.. sorry civi, feta too…
I can feel your excitement thru your words…..
do you have the greek talent of reading coffee cups?
xox
panos, you already have the questions..the interview will be perfect. – search your heart. i was just in ‘your’ venice but it was a different venice i photographed i am sure, tho i saw your venice. made photos for 5 days. separately, look at the work of Dinah DiNova on flickr, number 16 in Rafal’s curated compendium. she is as raw as is raw, and her life, her images, make my heart sing.
Brian & Wendy…:))
yes i feel like a 13 year old that felt in love (with photography )
for the first time…
thank u burn…
thank u burn…
thank you ALL
Erica
i agree.. but when it comes to interviews nobody has your edge..
or your intelligence..
biggest hug..
( i will check your suggestion now )
P :))))
remember what i told you at Kibbutz last year…..keep all that in your heart….happy for you and that you’ve had a chance to spent time with your hero….
the mark of someone, to me, is how they help others, out of goodness of their life and spirit and heart…
does it rain in Greece?? ;))))
running
hug
bob
the mark of someone, to me, is how they help others, out of goodness of their life and spirit and heart…
bob..one love
Nikos told me:
“i have no problem to help…K.Manos helped me, Koudelka also..my turn…”
bob u did the same for me remember?
writing my forward for the LA exhibition,u also help others by introducing them here, scouting,
helping them witheir books and on and on…
you re made from the same stuff.. as nikos…
thanks again
big hug bobb
P :)))
remember, you must believe in yourself and MUST care for yourself and all will pour out…:)))…what began as a difficult trip, has become a dream and sometimes someone just needs a change of lattitude to mend the life and the heart….so very veyr happy for you too…:)))…
glad u r joyous and alive and with Nikos…:)))…your new Venice…cant wait! :)))
ok running
bob
PANOS…
i am so so excited for you!! Nikos is one of the most self effacing photographers on the planet….if we have done nothing here on this site but to get you and Nikos together, then our time has been well spent…please please forward my warmest regards to Nikos and yes yes we will have him do an essay and interview…sorry for this short note because i have so much to tell you….be of good cheer and, oh yes, see if you can get me an invitation to Greece…i have never been…shocking , but true….
cheers, david
Panos! That is great, great news! He is one of my favorites too. “In the Balkans” sits proudly in my very small collection of photo books. Just can’t say enough how happy I am for you … may you have many road trips in the VW van … see you on Karpathos someday :)))
the Universe…I believe …
P.S
BURNIANS…I will be back…where is Maria the Hugger …I want to hug you all…
I am out of internet minutes…I am running …I have so much to talk about………..
Panos. Mostly in life the good stuff happens in the places and situations we didnt really want to be in in the first place. glad that has happened to you with greece. run with it and see where it goes.
john
All…
just skyped with DAH in oaxaca…
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what a day………..
cant digest all that..
bottomline
without DAH, BURN ..
i would have still working as a busboy in santa monica
civi, tom,johnG…ALL…
I WOULD LOVE TO … do a greek Burn meeting soon(er) than later..
now i talk like civi…
you are all invited…
yes we will meet in greece…
god damn it..
civi i love u..
peace love photography
where the f is civi?
Hello all,
Today I checked out the “Photoquai” Biennale in Paris. It’s an outdoor exhibit along the Seine, just next to the new Quai Branly Museum. It is very well curated. It runs until 22/11/09 so if you’re in Paris by then, I highly recommend passing by. Otherwise…this is the site.
http://www.photoquai.fr
Has anyone seen the work of Vivian Maier?
It’s really incredible.
http://vivianmaier.blogspot.com/
PANOS,
I am so happy for you. Sounds like you had a better day than myself. I could do today with some positive Greek energy and sunshine… Had an immensely boring day today…Took a day off to decompress a bit as I needed it and wanted to go and try to shoot to do something else, break from a lot of hard work lately in my day job… Kept pouring rain…grey cold… depressing really…. Sometimes wonder what I am doing here… I read about David in Oaxaca, crazy Panos meeting Nikos, quickly looked at Facebook and found this nice little video underneath from Lance shot at David’s house by the beach with Chris Bickford at the guitar and I kept thinking to myself…why am I here??!!!!! Shit some days are just not meant to be….
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=165646947965&ref=nf
but, no matter how shitty my day has been, that does not stop from being very happy for you man!!!! Always great to meet one of your idols… I do not know Nikos but recently discovered his Balkans book and agree with Tom that this book is amongst the very best…. Enjoy every minute of it and keep us posted.
Cheers,
Eric
Panos…
Civi is probably preparing a feast for you and Nicos… :))
Good for you… you take the bull by the horns…
Missed a chance to meet him last year during an exhibition of his work in Limassol… :((
Shit some days are just not meant to be….
no joke man..
that was my day, yesterday…
but take it from me.. the most depressed, unhappy idiot in the whole world…
marcin is also depressed but at least, marcin is a genius…
there are two sides…
u know what i mean..
if u dont visit the dungeon, u wont appreciate the penthouse…
Missed a chance to meet him last year during an exhibition of his work in Limassol… :((
Thodoris..:)
as far as im concerned … you will meet nikos…
i promise…
big hug and all my respect to you and your work…
Thodoris…
also..
i remember , about two years ago…
i complained to DAH, saying… man i cant believe John Vink is ignoring me…
i commented on this,,,… blah blah…
and DAH said to me…
be patient, keep on working… John will eventually find some quality time..
but keep on working… shooting…
the right time will come… for everything…
big hug
Mr Skoulidas sometimes the dungeon is full so one gravitates to the basement and just hangs around. If you help him with some software issues maybe he may hit the colour trail ……..enjoy
Panos;
Sometimes new beginnings begin with dark places and then it’s onwards and upwards into the light!
Cheers
everone’s gone all kahil gibran, so i may as well..
it’s all that really matters, photographing.
there is a lot of information covered on this site, yet the only important stuff is to organize taking photos, take photos and arrange to show them somewhere..
getting too clouded about other stuff is daft when our motives, direction and place show themselves through our actual efforts.
everything follows naturally – from who you end up chatting with to what to shoot next and
there is nothing to get overwhelmed about as details iron themselves out.
Only when you drink from the river of silence shall you indeed sing.
David B;
Yes, it really comes down to having faith in yourself, your own work and motives. If you try to keep positive then things tend to fall into place. Well that’s my theory anyway, I’ll let you know if it works! :-)
Panos…
right back atcha… :)) the hugs that is…
I’m currently at a weird place (metaphorically)…
On one hand I feel totally confident (just like Hunter ST in his red shark…) to take the next big step, and on the other I feel like a big fish in a small pond, afraid of what the Big f* Ocean will be like…
Any way… long day… calling it a night…
“Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” is waiting next to my pillow…
finished “The Perks of Being a Wallflower” a couple days ago… very good…
‘night from Cyprus…
Gibran was wrong … see above
better to be an amoeba in a vast ocean than a flabby fish suffocating in a small pond.
“Work is love made visible.”
http://leb.net/~mira/works/prophet/prophet7.html
Come on. Sitting around here talking philosophy when you could be out saving the world? What’s this place coming to.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/Salfv_cAzSI/AAAAAAAAAu8/0PlG-v-WvvM/s1600-h/bowen004.jpg
It’s your turn today Jim ……….. now I saw this ants nest in a very precarious situation……………
wow jim you’ve been quiet for what, a day? i’m guessing you must have gone and smoked that spliff as suggested by Joni. How was it?
I’m been spending quality time with Indesign CS4.
Laying out a magazine is so much fun. :)
Laying out a magazine is like playing in a ants nest
Yep
Panos,
Thanks for your heart warming report on meeting Nikos. I am not very familiar with his work but now I am interested to know more. I agree with you about asking good questions. It’s not easy. I’m by no means an expert, but your aim is just to encourage the man to talk, isn’t it. Apart from the facts of their career, I am always interested in the opinions of such people. Their opinions about the world (of photography) today. That’s what I found most interesting about reading Martin Parr’s interviews that Lassal posted. This may not be relevant to Nikos but I found Parr’s opinions on the state of the industry interesting. It’s always interesting to know their guiding philosophies, what draws them to this or that: this way of working or that subject. It’s as interesting to know the positives and the negatives too; the low points and the high points; the difficulties, struggles, as well as their great achievements.
thanks Andrea…
Imants
:)
….color trail…
yeah… that would be something…
something similar with Trent Parke
if my memory ( dry sponge ) serves me well…
8:41am
from the city of the lazy feta/olive/hummus eaters..
:)
……… maybe you can find a nice looking mirror and quick interview with Panos Skoulidas
Imants…….(laughing hysterically)…
u made me choke on my feta…
:)
http://z.about.com/d/greekfood/1/0/-/5/feta_499.jpg
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=165646947965&ref=nf
ahhh Eric..
just saw this one…
:)
PANOS,
your journey just started …yes,Mr.Venice, the late night joker and midnight smoker…
it seems that you are on the right bus holding a one way ticket to Photoland
BUT,
as one photophilosopher once wrote…be humble and focus,focus,focus
cause there are no free rides BUT only FREE DRINKS !!! VIVA!!!
I LOVE YOU BURNIANS …today I am dancing like MR.HARVEY !!!
I dedicate the ZORBA DANCE to MR.HARVEY, to NIKOS ECONOMOPOULOS and to all of YOU…
and I really mean this to all of you who are around the Universe …
be gentle to yourselves and to others…TODAY WE ARE DANCING !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXNApZ2ALiQ
DANCE ,DANCE,DANCE
Sheesh, told ya Greece was a nice place to hang out.. nobody ever listens.. ;))
Panos, Thanks… (was off the Internet the last 4 days)
Civi, Panos, Thodoris
good to hear life is good to you in Greeceland! So glad for you Panos, it sounds like a really exciting time for you.
Yes, celebrate and enjoy!
And then action: create, shoot, make your ideas happen!!!
You are on a good way and there is nothing better than to walk on a nice path and I hope it will lead you to more interesting places and experiences!
Oh, I have never been to Greece and you know Germany is awfully wet, cold and miserable in winter and I need to warm up some time… soon!!!
Tomorrow I will be off on my path to the northeastern part of Germany to Rostock and then on to Berlin… Finally!!! Some time to do nothing but take pictures!
Jim,
what kind of magazine are you designing? Can we see it?
Okay, let’s get some work done!
Reimar
Reimar, our newspaper group does a couple of regional tourist oriented magazines each year that are sent to visitor centers and chambers of commerce all over Texas. Typical “pitch your local tourist attractions” stuff. I took on the layout job five or six years ago. Nice to do something slick after the usual newspaper layout and newsprint.
Secret rights: Why old people will rule the world (too much acid in the ’60’s? :)…
http://www.39thframe.com/possessed.jpg
1 – are you ted dancin ?
2 – are you ted askin ?
1 – i am ted askin ..
2 – then i’m TED DANCIN
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1239/1213611771_ea6f647b39_o.jpg
them rolled back eyes are such a good look.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SI9CBErT75I/AAAAAAAAAKk/CaD51RPdgVI/s400/Untitled-20.2.jpg
Great news, Panos! Congratulations, I’m sincerely happy for you and can’t wait to see what you come up with! It sounds like you had a great time with Nikos, and that’s just the beginning!!! I second AndreaC’s comment, focusing the interview on Nikos’ opinions might be the best idea, i’m sure your questions will be good and up to the task! ;-)
David Bowen, “everyone’s gone all kahil gibran, so i may as well..”, that cracked me up, and I found your words to be very wise…thank you!
“David Bowen…..and I found your words to be very wise…thank you!”……..you must have got the Bowens mixed up with http://www.bowen.asn.au/bowen-therapy/what-is-bowen-therapy/
jim – need any nightlife photos from san francisco, LA, new york or miami?
francesco – thanks – yet, i’m certainly not wise.. if i were wise one of my teeth would not have fallen out the other day..
i’ve just worked very hard and every way possible to get commissions :o)
REIMAR,
where have you been …we miss your smile …where is Our PATRICIA too???
Greece lately is under El Nino…it’s raining…and when I close my eyes…I am next to you…
Germany,Norway,England,NY,Melbourne,Costa Rica, Alaska, China …hmmm…
WE ARE ALL ONE !!!
My new project is to finish another “Greek” style kibbutz …like the NY one…(silent)
this one is up in the mountains…REIMAR, don’t you dare forget our mill …
Well,up there, we can talk about philosophy and we can eat some feta cheese …
it’s so quiet though…you can even hear the scorpions breathing …sheesh EVA :)))
JIMMY,
I see no old people …only old souls …throw your newspapers away …cause
THE CIVILIANS HOUSE IS OPEN…
MR.HARVEY who needs an invitation to go home after all…
BURNIANS I am thinking to shove the keys in the ash …cause your Greek house is Open …
No key will be need …LOVE
P.S off the mountains …KATIE,we miss you…DAVIDB…o) MyGracie…
LOVE when LOVE is DUE !!! nah,nah,nah,nah,nahhhhh
““David Bowen…..and I found your words to be very wise…thank you!”……..you must have got the Bowens mixed up with ”
ha – sit down dame edna – we have a new wit.
……… well you got your 15 seconds
SUNSHINE in the mountains of bergen..
back from the doctors n top cat might have the new influenza..
still, he’s giggling n all is well..
DAVIDB,
the fallen teeth …it’s good luck …the tooth fairy is coming …just have your fingers
ready to push the photobutton…
OFF …no internet like my friend JOHNY VINK …
yeap…
see ya..
finger on the trigger..
click
DB…Focus on our TOR CAPA…
I am sending good energy…and a silent one…cause my grandmother used to say :
I will parafraze…ass that farts will have no problem…
throw the toxins out from the body
Kiss our BURNIAN baby …and focus …
I will be back
yes.. thanks for looking at me imants..
much love
Civi,
the last week was busy busy busy. Had some nice jobs. Nothing special, but good fun taking pictures. Had to catch up with friends as well.
No worries, I always have an eye on burn.
The mill is kind of hibernating. It is just too cold right now to do any work. I wait until all the leaves are off the trees…then I will do some clean up in the garden…
Jim,
good to have a mix of jobs. Never been to Texas. I still have this clichée of the tv series of “Dallas” with J.R. and Bobby Ewing on my mind… I certainly need an update…
Best
Reimar
Well, I do drive a red 4WD pickup truck, but don’t own a horse or a cow, and am certainly not rich! ;)
Well, there is the Corvette, but it’s a 1990 model. Not up to J.R. standards ;)
http://www.39thframe.com/meandcorvette.jpg
jim, your front lawn needs a trim.
John Vink..
your welcome…cambodia should be my next stop…
as a Burn detective i need to trace every cool magnum photog
no matter where they hide,…:))))))))
Francesco B…:)
thank u for your encouraging words..
lets see what happens…
Well, Ben, if you are volunteering… ;)
Ben, sounds like a great job. Do it for expenses.
jim – you need a haircut as well..
<>
soon to be diving into the metaphorical pickle
which is japans underworld once more…
good luck and stay safe..
ANTONANTON
ANTONANTON
Halloween in the second largest building in the world:
http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/ovidiu-rom-charity-event-at-ceausescus-palace/
did you all see this? “A selection of the best photoreportages and multimedia productions will also be published in the online magazine Burn.”
Anthropographia is proud to announce the opening of submissions for the 2010 edition. [Submission deadline is Dec 1, 2009]
This competition, opened to all, offers an opportunity for photographers to show their work and manifest their commitment to the human rights issues.
This year, 24 photoreportages and 10 multimedia productions will be selected by Anthropograhia’s advisory board which includes members who are recognized for their exceptional photojournalistic work, their commitment to contemporary photojournalism and their dedication to human rights advocacy. For the 2010 edition of Anthropographia Award, the Advisory Board will act as jury.
Two awards will be granted by the jury :
* The Anthropographia Award for Photography and Human Rights
* The Anthropographia Award for Multimedia productions and Human Rights
The two award-winners will participate at a private viewing of Anthropographia’s exhibition in Montreal in September 2010. The flight costs and the short stay accommodation being covered by Anthropographia.
Diffusion :
One photoreportage will be published in Polka magazine.
A selection of the best photoreportages and multimedia productions will also be published in the online magazine Burn.
haven’t had time to look them over, but rules here: http://www.anthropographia.org/2.0/wp-content/html/terms.html
I don’t guess David is getting enough direct submissions. Hmmm.
Jim – you need a haircut as well..”
Once a Hippy, always a Hippy. I wear a gold stud in my left ear, too. Some of us never got over the 60’s.
Not sure I follow Jim, but my understanding is that this is completely separate from anything having to do with the quantity of submissions at burn…rather it is part of the award for being chosen by Anthrop.
Well, with the current format, it’ll take time to show ’em on Burn. When other stuff won’t be shown. The current format is kind of limiting for branching out.
I mean, with the current essay has been up four days, kinda limits how much you can show.
dunno..anton /dah can fill us in the scheduling. maybe it will be a separate showcase area.
Once a Hippy, always a Hippy. I wear a gold stud in my left ear, too.
thats hot..:)
big hug
haha – jim.. great.. i let my piercings heal.
could dig out a photo of the camper van i lived in for a few months.. scary biscuits.. won’t.
on the comp – a selection could be as little as 3.. at a guess they would be over within a month..
good stuff though.. new eyes for the site and help with the selections.
An interesting book distribution model by a photographer who uses his work affect change:
“…Having published the Tongass book, I wanted to change the way it was distributed. So I approached foundations in the conservation community. I struck an agreement between one of the foundations and Aperture to buy books at cost (about 800) so that they could be handed out in Congress, not only to members but also their legislative assistants. And Aperture agreed. That was Aperture’s first introduction to the idea. So that happened with the Tongass book, and we got it handed out in Congress and widely distributed through information networks like Natural Resources Defense Council and Earthjustice that needed it as a visual imaging device.
From the time we published that book in ‘86, the presence was accumulative, sort of a ball going downhill, gaining momentum. And in 1990 we passed the largest timber reform bill in history of United States. The book was not the sole element that made that happen. It was all the people working on the project. But it gave them something to carry around in their hands to say, this is what it looks like, and, more importantly, this is what’s being done to it, because the clear-cuts were in the book.”
http://blog.livebooks.com/2009/03/robert-glenn-ketchum-books-that-make-a-difference-shouldnt-have-to-make-money/
All:
Mark Power sent me this link. Thought you might enjoy (even if it is very much US focused)…
http://www.vincentborrelli.com/cgi-bin/vbb/106876.html
Hey ALL
need some help..
originally registered on Word Press without a URL. now want to register a URL but am having trouble doing it. Can someone tell me how to register so that my name is a clickable link? Will be back in a few hours..so thanks in advance to anyone with the patience to explain what seems like it must be really easy to do.
best
kathleen
Just scroll up, click on “WordPress Admin” on the right side, then click on profile, then enter your website.
That’s it!
Is that a recent photo Jim?
Jeez, I’m jeleous, you still have all your hair.
Feel good photo made first page in the Times Colonist, our provincial capitals’ main daily.
forgot the link http://www.timescolonist.com/news/todays-paper/Baby+born+coast+guard+lifeboat+named+after+vessel/2182072/story.html
I’m experiencing a bit of deja vu today. Gordon and Erica :-)
Congratulations Gordon.
Gordon, that’s cool. Loved the headline, “Do you know where your pants are? They could have been used in criminal activity” True, very true, and yes, yes I do. Just checked.
So are you in Victoria proper? Nice place, been a few years.
Gordon, that’s cool. Loved the headline, “Do you know where your pants are? They could have been used in criminal activity” True, very true, and yes, yes I do. Just checked.
So are you in Victoria proper? Nice place, been a few years.
And, I believe that may be what we refer to as a “file photo” of Jim, aka at least a decade out of date. Just guessing. Disappointed the vette wasn’t red, or black. Sorry Jim. Many years ago I had a vette, of course it was a Chevette. It was brown … yes, that brown.
crap ….
… laughing … Maker’s Mark is overrated.
Gordon, that is my hair. Don’t know why I have such a full head of hair. My dad was almost bald before he was 30, and I’m 59. Since I was born when he was 17, maybe I’m the reason the lost all of his hair, though. ;)
I don’t see the “pants” headline Tom.
I actually live in Parksville, two hours up island from Victoria.
I don’t see the “pants” headline Tom.
I actually live in Parksville, two hours up island from Victoria.
Jim
Thanks so much! I always logged in at the bottom of this page and never got a profile page. When i logged in above where it says ¨Register on Burn¨ i saw the profile page for the first time. So, yeah, thank you!
kathleen
Jim
It´s ironic that you are the one who gave me this information..i{m just sitting here smiling at the weird way that life works sometimes. Thank you.
Bestest
kathleen
Civilian
Well, so hi..been out of my mind busy with guests but they´ve all ambled off into other parts of paradise for to enjoy the sights, dig the rainforest, gawk at the makaws, mingle with the locals and quibble over prices with the local prostitutes, so i am finally back in the USSofBurn..big greetings to you and yeah, big greetings, nada mas..too much wine tonight, am lucky i can still type (after lots of backspacing and correcting however)..
besos y abrazos
urkatie
Kathleen,
I really like most of the images in “Landshapes”, smart use of flash in landscape photography!
JIM
maybe I’m the reason the lost all of his hair, though. ;)
laughing. Thinking of Harvey and Anton.
KATHLEEN,
Your landshapes are nice.
cheers
john vink..
great – thanks.. unable to afford anything,however it’s given me an idea …
kathleen..
really enjoyed the landshapes blog.. great to see a link.. will look more later..
morning.
Gordon, have you seen the old WWII bomber in the hillside? The small ponds in the marsh on the way were from the bombs it dropped before plowing in … or is that just a locals secret ;-)
This current essay has been up almost a week. Have both DAH and Anton fallen into a black hole?
I am sure that DAH and Anton have quite a full plate. Keeping you entertained is probably not at the top of their lists.
The Anthropographia partnership is excellent news methinks. Focussed publicity for both parties and helps to shape the identity of burn.
The scoop with Anthropographia partnernship….
first, if you are not familiar with them, i recommend you visit their website and if you have a chance to see their exhibitions (in montreal or new york), i highly recommend this.
the partnership between Anthropographia and Burn was a organic one and one formed from simple things: contact, conversation and mutual respect, support. The organizer of Anthropopgraphia and David met this past year as part of this year’s Magnum Workshop at CONTACT Festival here in Toronto. He met David through the workshop (i cannot now recall if he was one of David’s students or one of the other Magnum photographer teachers’s students). David took a look at the portfolio and the organization and the first thing he did when i saw him 2 days after i met him at the airport was “bob, you have to meet this guy and take a look at the portfolio. they are a great outfit. it would be a great collaboration.” David believed in the work and the organization and set the ball in motion.
Later, I was introduced to him and we chtted and pent some time with over drinks over the course of that week;))). After the Contact show, I introduced Anthropographia to Marc Prust in Paris (former director of Agence Vu) and they worked together to do an exhibition in Paris of the Anthropographia outfit. After the CONTACT festival, and after talking at length with Anthropographia, the discussions continued from there and he, david and Anton started to build the idea/relationship. It all happened from meeting in person, talking and believing in one another and focusing on accomplishing something that could be great for all, especially for the photographers.
Now, the work will be showcased on Burn. I, having pesonally been involved in the initial part, am so so happy that David, Anton and Anthropographia have partnered officially and formally now. it will make for a great relationship, all the way around.
Anthropographia is a great great outfit and a great their exhibitions and awards (to promote Human Rights) is a critical venture and I was so happy to see this come to fruition. It will be, just as the relationship and friendship developed with Lens, a mutually supportive and beneficial relationship. I encourage all of you to the organization just as you support Burn.
It is another example of how relationships and support of people and individuals can bring together larger relationships. the collaboration was born of David and Anthropographia meeting at CONTACT, foster through a few drinks and emails and then taking further by continued conversation and development and persistance.
It’s great news for all…
b
Perhaps this is closer for some than NY or Toronto:
Exhibition in Geneva : March 5, 2010 – March 14, 2010
“I am sure that DAH and Anton have quite a full plate.”
Perhaps their plate is too full to run an online magazine.
Abele, Haik and David B.
Three very humble thank you´s! As you all know i have been too shy for too long about posting my work here. But i couldn´t just hide it on my hard drive anymore.
ABELE, yes, i shot the Landshape work with flash and also vaseline on a filter. However, i got rid of that camera and flash and had a difficult time achieving the same mood with the more powerful upgraded equipment and abandoned the project. But the feedback here makes me think maybe i should try again.
I looked at your website for the first time..love your irony. You approach the world humbly, your ability to be amused is always right there below the surface and you are attracted to the complex posing in simple guises. The rabbit and bears photos made me really smile. And i needed a big smile this morning.
best to ALL
kathleen
Maybe I missed it, but I don’t think DAH or anyone for that matter ever set a publication frequency for BURN. I have not see anywhere on the site where it says that it will be updated on a monthly, weekly or daily basis. So why do you expect it to be?
If people are checking back every hour or day for new essays, perhaps they don’t have enough on their plates.
Stop whining and go shoot some photos or something. When a new essay is posted, consider it a happy surprise. Unless of course it is work about human suffering, then you can regurgitate every negative comment you have already made.
I am sure you know that the label curmudgeon is not necessarily a cute term of endearment…
From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:
Curmudgeon: An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.
Lighten up Jim. Quit complaining.
KAT
textures
and
dreams…
patterns
of
color…
leaves
and
water….
***
My fav is the ‘sepia’ looking pattern of leaves….
also
tree with bucket…
would like to see some B/W with this series?!?
maybe?!?
like the energy
and
mystery
within a frame……
***
John Vink-
Those cards look great, but can any of them hit a curve ball?
Kathleen!! great to see your site. Love the second street shot of the young woman.
Tom, that ww11 bomber must be a well kept secret, how did you find out about it. I’d love to photograph it.
Jim just grow up.
Ian
Re Bob’s post. This reminds me of the convo we had about networking not long ago. This is obviously a good example of the benefits of networking.
Kathleen
The Landshapes are intriguing. I wish they were a little bigger though. I find it hard to enjoy small pictures on the web. I think these sorts of pictures look great when they are mural size. Or at least poster size.
Excuse my personal comment but I thought you were a bit older than your photo depicts.
Gordon, it’s near Tofino. If you ask like a tourist everyone will deny knowing about it but if you find the right locals at the restaurants, hotels, they may tell you. I could never find it again myself but it’s a short hike. It’s surreal to still see the plane sitting there 50 years after it crashed. Oh … interesting … just googled it and found info on it, not such a secret after all anymore, although I know the locals jealously guard it for good reason. It’s the 1945 crash site at Radar Hill near Tofino …
jim jimmeny..
i understand there is a wealth of work primed n ready.. you know..
we’ve been here before.. ever decreasing circles..
anton is working hard on his business n traveling for his yakuza ina jacuzzi project tomorrow..
he’s also worked bloody hard to make sure our eyes are catered for in the meantime.. a little appreciation please.
david has said on here that he’s in mexico n inter-web ain’t great..
actually – what the blue-jam am i doing being defensive on anyones behalf..?!
no need.
jimmeny – if you need a daily fix there is always flickr.. in fact i’d love to see your take on some of the ‘astonishing’, ‘wow’ and ‘great capture’ snaps over there.. please go there and link us to your thoughts, if you’re that bored. you’ll be doing good work.
bob
good work there.. i think it’s going to be a great little happening and interesting to have another perspective presented.. the association can only bring new eyes to both organizations and i think it’s in the true spirit of this place..
quite apart from the benefit of mixing the readership for us both, there’s also the possibility of it taking some pressure off the submission process here.. so.. good on you n david for doing da do.
anyway – GOOD LUCK ANTON – a month in the underworld ahead.. take it as it comes n be yourself..
keep safe and pop up here if you can.
tom n gorden..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photograptor/3973667480/sizes/l/in/set-72157622507384854/
bloody flickr.
Bowen … laughing … well that just sucks all the mystery and sense of insider discovery out of it doesn’t it!?! It looked so much better hiking through the marsh in the fog then looking up through the tree canopy to see the tail hanging out above you, sworn to secrecy, hush, hush … Are there no secrets anymore?
bloody flickr indeed ;-))
Of course I pulled my flickr stuff when I walked into a prominent coffee shop chain and while standing in line saw my photos playing across the megavideo screen sandwiched between ads with no credit, no pay and without permission … “lo res” is high enough res these days … sorry, not, not, not trying to start that discussion again …
Anton, best to you … it’s going to be brilliant and I’ll see you next year, somewhere … relax …
“I walked into a prominent coffee shop chain and while standing in line saw my photos playing across the megavideo screen sandwiched between ads with no credit, no pay and without permission …”
Gnar, tom..
did you get a free coffee?
maybe just lean over and dip into the till next time..
>:o(
David, well, if Burn is just a hobby, then that’s different.
whatever box you need to put things in jim..
ERICA…..JIM…
we have way more than enough direct submissions….to the point where two full time screening editors, both with extensive pro experience, will now be working for Burn…nevertheless, if i see good work coming from other sources, i will be pleased to give it a look…we can have many more essays per week than we now show….the reason they are up as long as they are is not because of any shortage of content…quite the contrary…it is merely to respect the essay and give it a bit of time ….we could easily double the pace or quadruple the pace, but i do not think that is a good idea…
by the way, photography has always been my “hobby”…i suppose Burn is as well….a labor of love is love
cheers, david
Dear Jim.
if I wasnt listening to charlie Mingus
and if i wasnt getting ready to go out and play some poker
then i might want to share some words with you.
but iam, and I am, so I wont.
PEACE
john
Jim as you know the wordpress stuff is pretty easy to setup but a pain to maintain. Despite that a person whose essay is posted would not like to see it demoted a rung within a couple of days.
“…A LABOR OF LOVE IS LOVE”
hmmmm… according to GORDON’S photo it can be a baby too…yeap…you never know what a labor can bring :)))
EMCD,
thanks in advance for sharing …the deadline…do you hear PANOS…(hmmm…he might be busy with the moustaches …:)))
“The name Anthropographia is a combination of the greek words, “ ἄνθρωπος (anthropo) γράφω (graphia) “, which literally mean ‘human-being writing’…Anthropographia’s mission is to illustrate the complexity of humanity and to bring awareness to human rights issues through an international photojournalism exhibition…”
VIVA ANTHROPOPHOTOGRAPHIA !!!
KATIE,
I love, I love…landscapes and perfect strangers…I LOVE them all… you are my street fighter, you are my sword tongue…i wanna see more… your heart,your soul…bring me some prostitutes, make me drink some red water…
BUT what do I know…I am just a civilian …hihihi…
and psss…I believe that BURN has the sexiest BURNIANS in the Universe…No kidding…love
MR. JIM …and take it from the Civilian …you have a heart of gold…
you might need some “trimming” Here and There BUT you are a BURNIAN…
TOM HYDE,
your vette was brown …close to sepia…it’s my favorite color !!!
Today BURNIANS DoAsHarvey …
Labor of Love…shoot !!!
ANTON , don’t skype me …I will be playing poker with JG…he is such a pretender :)))
and before I go,
I have to thank HAIK, yes another BURNIAN with a heart of gold …
Without his help I would have missed many essays !!!
THANK You again HAIK…you know…no need for keys …the door is Open
First Anthropos then photographer…anyway something like that …my dyslexic brain is
BURNED !!!
Imants, perhaps, but the current essay was posted six days ago.
Gosh..
AndreaC..you can click on the photo to see a larger size. Poster or mural size is nice but a bit difficult to see on a monitor ;) Regarding the profile pic, it´s two Christmas´s old. My Mom shot it and clearly her little digi is as blind as her love. No other way to explain the sudden disappearance of crow´s feet.
Gordon
Thanks so much for looking..i will be posting more. This is a step toward a website. Poco a poco.
Wendy
Oh to have my work be the subject of one of your poems was more than i could expect. Now it was your turn to make me go all emotional. I know why you´s suggesting b&w, to heighten the mystery and enhance the textures. Haven´t tried it but might consider different subjects in B&W.
Lastly, my Civi
Yes, YOUR street fighter, YOUR sword tongue. Love your Love. Even love your farts ;) Can´t have one without the other..nope..just can´t. Photos of prostitutes..that´s a whole ´nother world. I´m thinking Katharina Hesse has already done a bang-up job shooting young ladies of the night. i couldn´t hhope to top her in a million years. Still, never say never. I do have a connection. You might have given me an idea.
ok..that´s it for now..have got to get some work done..
katie
Hmmn the new essay is up and no comment Jim??
hmm, landscape, recent landscape, for Kathleen and Civi … best I can do, just down the road, on the way to the store … MOO.
Kathleen,
thank you so much for visiting my website and for your comment: in few, thoughtful, words you perfectly nailed my approach towards photography… I am admired by the clarity of your vision.
Imants, so now we’ve seen a slice of this photographer’s depressing life. You do stuff and move on. And take atmospheric, enigmatic, fuzzy photos of the stuff. And throw in some nudity (gotta have nudity). “Archetypal” was kind of fun, though. I love cool words.
Hi Civi,
Thanks for keeping the coals hot.
We are back to BBQ,Barbque, Barb-a-q,
Come visit,
“Lots to Love”
http://twoeightproject.wordpress.com/
Jim this is a site for “photographers” and they generally like this sort of stuff
What sort of stuff, cool words, or nudity?
the lot, photos, nudity pats on the back, even cooler words, being it, etc
I like nudity as much as the next guy, but I’m not sure how it adds to this essay.
Young Tom —
Just swung by your site and was bale to pull a lo-res (but high enough) right off the html there too…
Don’t worry. I deleted it. :)
Abele
i only saw what you so clearly communicate :)
Tom Hyde
LOVE the light! Cows are muy cool!
Imants
Nudity pats on the back or pats on a nudity back?
you guys are fruit loops and i say that in total affection..
k-
jim – watch it and close your eyes for the breast shots, then watch it with eyes wide open.
Kathleen it’s like being a classy stripper..
Jared, laughing, touche’!
Maybe I should clothe those cows next time … gratuitous bovine nudity is so yesterday, i mean it adds nothing to the photo, nothing at all.
damn, cows with clothes, it could be a whole exhibition, a movement, like dogs playing cards, and I gave away the idea for free, damn, i wonder, can i buy spiderman underwear that large? what about superman tights … i’m so sorry. please return to regular programming.
Imants; so as well as being a landscaper you’re a pole dancer in your spare time too? Cool, you gotta post the pics though! :-))
Ross a pole sitter………. watched loggers strip forrests
Kathleen, ah ok, I will try again.
Oh I see I am not the only who felt the boobs were gratuitous.
Edoardo´s gratuitous boobs get Burned
Imants likes to sit on a pole while watching loggers stripping in forests
AndreaC goes back for a bigger size
Tom Hyde ponders runway styles for his full size bovines
David B´s eyes keep blinking
Jim likes nude guys as long as they´re archetypal
Jared´s pulling bales
Pomara sits on hot coals
Ross pole dances
Wendy sometimes rhymes
Civi oozes ouzo
Katie just laughs
I wonder about the women themselves. If these were lover(s), how do these women feel about being exploited? Having their bodies displayed on Burn? If they were not lover(s), then what was the point in the context of the essay? Perhaps younger women and men no longer care about intimacy remaining intimate. Lay all relationships out in a public way.
Hi David.
that sounds like a good idea as many of us dont get the opportunity to log on that many times a week at times. Just a thought, have you guys considered putting up 2 essays up together at a time. They could possibly be in contradiction to each other, a juxtaposition of a similar theme, or harmonious in different respects. B/W and colour, and so on. I guess these duets could be many and varied.
I have been working to save money over past month or two towards work of Indian festivals, but I’m very much looking forward in listening to your thoughts on my photography when you have time, which i sure you probably dont have at the moment. But looking forward when it comes.
thanks and love discussions I read here always.
Are all of the photographers relationships going to be the basis of photographic essay? To serve his narcissism? How would this effect future relationships?
Jim
Maybe Edoardo and his friends are quite comfortable with their nudity..that´s often the way with Europeans. My problem with the essay was not the intimacy that´s suggested by the nudity, it´s the feeling i got that there wasn´t any real intimacy there. That this was about Edoardo and no one else.
k-
First it was vaseline, then boobs by Edoardo, then nude cows, and then a guy was sentenced for unprotected sex with a horse( in today’s news). Besides, our local has confessed in stealing certain high-enough number of specifically arranged pixels and is now facing an imminent purchase of tights as a bail
I guess that is regular programming.
Jim
You posted your second comment while i was writing mine. I agree with you about his narcissism. You´ll note that he said he had a relationship and then it was over. Maybe the essay gives us some idea about why that happened. There are many keys to who he is contained in the photos. He IS telling us these things. The essay IS an extended self-portrait, just as he says. But to me it´s lacking any kind of depth or wit or anger or existential questioning. It´s a tale of a limited person. Maybe it´s his age. Maybe it´s his concerns or distractions or a broken heart or whatever but there´s very few facets (compelling or otherwise) to him, at least as revealed in this essay. Maybe i´m wrong, just my take on it.
k-
Haik
I saw that about the horse..a viewer posted a comment that Michael Vick got two years for cruelty and killing dogs while this guy gets 3 years for loving a horse.
You gotta love the internet..
k-
Kathleen,
I don’t see it as harshly as you put it. I think you are being a hard on the guy. I think perhaps he hasn’t gotten over his old girlfriend and wondered how she felt about having her pic flashed all over the web like this which is an unfortunate thing to reveal if you ask me. All the pictures of her indicate to me that she was a lot about sex to him. What else is one to think with so many sexual images. But I thought the other photographs showed sensitivity. I thought the whole arrangement sensitive and some of the pictures I really love. I think his pictures are a great deal more original than most very good shots and essays we see here. Its just the boob jobs that bother me. Haven’t we seen enough of them already? Maybe on the whole the essay is too personal to win you over but for all that, I think it has a lot of merit. And if it is emotionally shallow (not saying it is), I don’t think it’s photographically shallow at all. I think its one of the more interesting we’ve seen here since he seems to be dealing with intangible things. It’s hard to comment in detail about this or that picture without them in front of me.
Jim, isn’t it only one woman?
AndreaC
Hi, thanks for the thought provoking response. I think it´s an individual reaction. You strike me as often having a very cerebral, thoughtful approach to essays and really like to delve into ideas and issues. i think i´m more spontaneous and perhaps (probably) more emotional. It seems you see more in the photos than i do and i am really glad about that. It means Edoardo communicated something really important to you and that makes his essay successful. I liked certain individual photos quite a lot. The nudity didn´t faze me. People are nude together and this essay was about him and his relationship, ergo, he shared these moments as well. And i doubt he included those photos for purely sexual reasons. A naked person can express a lot of emotions and these photos were important to him. Maybe they convey loss, maybe love, maybe he´s just missing the physical act of love with this person, i don´t know. But i´m totally ok with those photos. It was the ¨extended self-portrait¨ that i didn´t respond to because i do not feel he revealed enough depth or facets of his personality. The essay as a self-portrait, for whatever reason was a very limited one to me.
Gotta get some sleep..have a great day, Andrea :)
kathleen
Like Kathleen, the nudity didn’t really register with me as being gratuitous or erotic. In fact, it seemed pretty natural in am intimate setting.
The fact that the essay seems limited as a self-portrait to us Burnians is probably because we don’t know Mr. Pasero – and I’m OK with that. (Shouldn’t we create for ourselves first, anyway?) I can accept and enjoy it at face value. Even if I didn’t give a shit about what the photos meant to him, I can come away with my own interpretation. I don’t know what the hell the Beatles are talking about in 1/2 of their lyrics, but I still like them…
Kathleen…
just saw your profile photo in your blog…
pretty face..
likes it
;)
Justin
Yes, you are right. We have to create for ourselves but if we want to show our work we have to give the viewer a reason to care. I am REALLY happy to see that others found a reason to care about this essay. Honestly, i´d rather be the odd (wo)man out than have fifty people agree with me. That would be a sad day indeed for the photographer, no? It´s just funny to me that this essay meant absolutely nothing to me and yet said so much to many others. Interesting, indeed. Makes me think it has something to do with my mood today..i´ll make a point of going through the essay a few more times tomorrow or the next day. But for now, i have to say i have little patience for navel contemplating extended self-portraits.
g{night :)
kat
Panos
awwwwww…gosh…
thank you
(you made me BLUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
7;34am
just woke up…
in a small remote little town…
somewhere in the north west of grecolandia..
on the top of the ancient city of Amvrakia..
i will be back in the city of Moustaches ( athens )
probably by the end of the week ( for what i promised to do etc )..
in the meantime i wanna try to start a project that
involves many remote little towns and islands …blah blah…
anyway, once again..
good morning from the city of Amvrakia y’all..
Panos
Just saw your comment on Edoardo´s essay..i am laughing my ass off..more nudity indeed..hahahahaha..god you can be funny..
k-
Kat..
;)
¨ i wanna try to start a project that
involves many remote little towns and islands¨
so, just DO it and then bring it home and show us..
k-
Pancito:
as Civi says
Besos y asbestos..
g´night!
ok…ok…
still waking up…
jee…
burn became such a pressure…
smiling
big hug
night night
:))))))))))
ha ha ha, Imants just said in about four or five words what I was babbling on about in five or so paragraphs that I’ve not posted yet.
Oops sound of almost car crash outside on the highway…
Panos,
Perhaps you should go see Eduoardo’s website where there is more. Why do i feel like this is cruel? ok to be a bit kinder to Eduardo, I’ll publish my waffly paragraphs that say much the same thing as Imants.
Kathleen
You can read this when you wake up of course. Its not going anywhere…
I couldn’t quite get the words out in the first post but now I think I know what I want to say to you. I’ve noticed from some of your comments, that you seem to look for certain things in pictures. And maybe because you can’t see them here you are disappointed/unmoved by the essay. When i look at essays, I don’t have a checklist but I do try to register my feeling response to the images and notice this or that about the content and composition also. I don’t always analyse them so closely for the details but that’s probably because I am a bit lazy. But I do notice things like when images evoke feelings in me and I try to understand why. One interesting thing in this essay – which came up for me on first viewing and before I read the comment – was the storytelling and suspense that drew me along. Each image was suggestive without giving away everything. I found myself waiting for a punchline as I tried to make it all come together in a coherent story. I think its quite a poetic piece that is undermined a little, but not irrevocably ruined, by too much comment from the photographer. I think its interesting that an essay can make you think that way, ie waiting for a punchline. Perhaps it’s the brain seeking to make order out of disorder. On repeated viewing I found myself doing the same sort of thing again though I stopped waiting for a punchline. It just has its own story to weave regardless of the photographer.
And then there are the questions each picture seems to ask – that I don’t really want answered by the photographer to be honest: who is that woman?, where does she fit into this story? etc.
And then there are other things that I enjoyed in this essay such as images that make me go – wow what a brave way to frame that scene. “That” would be one that I’d definitely throw out if I took it because, in fact, if I’d taken it myself, I probably wouldn’t even register that I liked it but seeing it here, I know it’s fine – it works really well in this sequence. An example of that is the one where a tiny bit of some far away buildings are in focus and just peeping over the window sill, while everything inside in the foreground is out of focus. I find that shot quite original and there are lot of that sort here in this essay – strange unusual compositions which seem to invite one to dream or try to peer into the mind of someone else, eg like the one looking past a couple in the shadows out the window of a train. The fact that the mind is of a young italian photographer is not actually a very interesting realisation for me, but I like the notion that the image makes me wonder what was in someone’s mind in this way. And others that i try to fit into the story like the interior with large glowing white panels and plants.
This essay sends my train of thought off into many small directions like that. Not all the images I like the most are so mysterious. I love the building which we see through the blurred wire grid in the foreground. The shots of the girls forearm in the car is superb for me. There is so much desire in it without resorting to any cliche. Also I like the leg in the foreground of that interior shot, another shot about seduction. I can’t remember the others off the top of my head.
I also quite like the idea that this essay could be rearranged into a different sequence and I think that would work here. The plastic bag on the breakfast table – I think its breakfast cereal – didn’t bother me very much. I know its white and probably draws your eye too much but I was curious about the girl. On the other hand, it’s not a shot that moves me very much. It’s more like a filler shot. A little domesticity to make the story real and not just a dream sequence.
On the whole there is a nice aesthetic to the way he takes his black and whites. I think there is a lot of poetic strength to this essay and if worked on that more, he could more interesting work. I would much prefer to see more of this sort of thing than more men covered in gross tattoes. Sorry but i find those pictures of tattoe people very unappealing. But some of his colour portraits are lovely. The girl in dappled light with the bright beads and one or two others which I can’t remember now off the top of my head. There’s something in some of his pictures that I can’t put my finger on so i like it.
I’ve gone on a bit. Its not very cerebral. Not very academic. Its just my personal response to Eduoardo’s essay and Kathleen’s earlier comments.
I’m not much on ambiguity in photos or essays, because I’m uninterested in reading MY story into the photographs or having MY story evoked to me by the photos. I know my story. I want the photographer to tell me either his/her story or the story of the object of his photography. There appear to be a lot of folks who like to react to photos with a nod of the head, “Ah yes, I’ve been there, I’ve felt that, I’ve experienced that, etc.” But I want to understand the experience of the photographer, not pour my own emotions and experience into the photos. Photos for me aren’t a search for the meaning of my own life, but for the meaning of another’s. We all share common feelings, emotions, hopes, etc. It’s what is different about us that I want the photographer to reveal.
But this essay didn’t do that for me. The photography spent too much time evoking and not enough explaining.
Jim. I can’t speak for others but your interpretation seems to be in counterpoint to what me or others have said rather than what the photographer has said or shown. So in response, for my part I would say, I think just because I find the essay poetic doesn’t mean it can’t evoke things that are unfamiliar. It’s not my story (ie about me) i see or am looking for. There is a lot that is unfamiliar to me here. I don’t think anyone here, or the photographer either, is suggesting that Eduardo’s essay shows us things about our story that we already know. It’s just that this is not a factual story of the type we see most often here. This is a more subjective story than usual. Although i am happy to be left up to making my own meanings, it does not mean there is no connection to what the photographer intended. I think he’s well aware of the poetics of it. I think he knows the meanings are loose given his suggestion that the photos can be arranged in different order. Why does everything have to be explained?
Of course if you don’t like this type of photography then that is entirely your perogative, isn’t it?
Andrea, for me, there is no story at all. It’s all inner monologue, stream of consciousness stuff. If I don’t pour content into it, it has no content. I simply don’t connect with the photographer on this one. The only narrative I get from this essay is a kind of depressing, “We live, we love, we move on.” And then we publish it on Burn. Future “love interests” should be made aware of this.
Jim,
“Photos for me aren’t a search for the meaning of my own life, but for the meaning of another’s. We all share common feelings, emotions, hopes, etc. It’s what is different about us that I want the photographer to reveal.”
I have been a follower of burn for 8 months or so, in all that time the above statement seems to contradict many of your posts during this time. Anytime an essay is posted that pushes boundaries, tells the story of what a photographer is feeling/viewing you condemn them for not sticking to your rules of what should be photographed and how it should be photographed.
I do love your comments though because they always invoke discussion.
Cheers
ian
aitken, what’s inconsistent? It should be painfully obvious that I prefer straight up, documentary photography. Whether a photographer is talking about himself or about others, just hit me over the head with it in the photo. I want the photographer to just say it without ambiguity. Or just show me pretty pictures.
Jim there is absolute consistancy, your condemnation of anything that doesn’t fit you view of photography.
Cheers
ian
jim
you are consistent in your perception.. it’s easy to see where you are coming from, whether i agree or not, and i think with this latest essay you have explained fairly well with your recent comment. i guess you don’t dig navel gazing.
i’ve yet to comment on the essay.. i appreciate it’s intention and think the narrative is successful, despite some repetition – intentional repetition i’m sure…
i don’t agree that this essay is solely about the photographer, since it can speak volumes to anyone who has gone through a transition – all of us in fact.
for me that is the works success as well as it’s failure.. there is something banal about appealing to the masses.. in terms of pop music i think this piece is a bit ‘u2’ .. rattle and erm..
there is more ‘edge’ on the photographers site which would have been appreciated in this presentation.. but you know.. maybe the way it is, it pins down the way the photographer felt about the relationship and transition perfectly.. it’s expressing very well..
in any case.. some great individual photos.. and an honestly presented idea which works very well as a series.. speaks to lots of us on different levels in a classically thought out way.
no problem with it here – just not the most exciting or thought provoking experience for me..
as an aside – and one thought i have about photography throughout – is that it’s all autobiographical in the end, when it gets to the point of a body of work..
whether we shoot with that intention or not – it’s always about the photographer for me.
David, yes but there’s autobiographical and autobiographical and cindy sherman’s pictures aren’t autobiographical as Mimi said. At least not as far as I was ever aware of her suggesting that it was. That’s is one aspect that is interesting about them. Her pictures aren’t about her at all, at the literal level as these are supposed to be. Actuallly I start to think only some of these are autobiobiographical in that they tell anything about the photographer’s life.
I forgot mention I really like the picture of the tree with all the junk around its base.
bio x1 only
i think both inward and outward looking snappery is about the photographer and their choices eventually.. literally or subliminally.
my taste is more towards outward looking work, although inward looking work can really blow my socks off if it’s not too self conscious.
JIM
For when you get bored and start complaining about the essays not changing fast enough….
http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/chatnoir/chatnoir.swf
about a woman and her breasts being photographed and shared…I saw nothing exploitative or even sexual in the images…just the human form uncloaked from clothes which often signify that an image was taken at a certain point in time: for example, the david is ever more powerful because he is without these references which would make his form feel more finite and less universal.
“What spirit is so empty and blind, that it cannot grasp the fact that a human foot is more noble than the shoe and the human skin more beautiful than the garment with which it is clothed.”
—Michelangelo
DAH : re: having more than enough submissions and the essays being up for x amount of time to respect the essay..in the words of my friend’s son: “I already knew that” :) I was just trying to be gentle with Jim in my answer. hope all is well and that Oaxaca was a blast.
emcd, my question about the nudity wasn’t about nudity per se, but rather if the woman knew these photos would be used in such a way, or were they the result of an intimate relationship that has been exploited.
I see, but what made you wonder that?
But for those out there who are on the fence about the merits of the natural form being shared:
“I come from a country where you don’t wear clothes most of the year.”
—Elle MacPherson
just kidding :)
Erica, I wonder because this self-absorbed young man could very well not care about such things as consent.
My original response really was more to your question about wondering about the women (“If they were not lover(s), then what was the point in the context of the essay?”) The point in the context of this essay I think goes back to the words of Michelangelo.
But re: wondering about consent, I assume “innocence until proven” otherwise. I could question everybody all the time, but that would make for a dull and dark practice. I see no reason to question here, and you’ll remember that I was the first to publicly express concern for the issue of consent in the essay about the discarded ID cards, which is to say that I am not naive at the expense of reason.
did anyone go to Alex and Rebeccas book opening last night?
erica,
scribble notes?
**
I went to dinner with a couple people who went, but I did not..went to the Davidson opening, which was really crowded. Shoot, I owe scribble notes from the Workshop still.
I still think the issue of consent is important, because the Internet encroaches on our every day lives so much these days.
As in, “Hey, I know that woman, she teaches my son’s second grade class.”
As in, “Hey, I know that woman, she teaches my son’s second grade class.” And she has breasts!
Just playing with you Jim..okay, must try to focus here.
Keep you eye on your Flickr images
http://www.brandsanatomy.com/2009/11/bigger-company-bigger-blunder.html
David,
“i think both inward and outward looking snappery is about the photographer and their choices eventually.. literally or subliminally.”
Of course, but since it pertains to all of us its less interesting and less useful. Its not the most interesting places to start talking about pictures that are obviously about something outward. It’s just not interesting to talk about Cindy Sherman’s work as autobiographical.
Erica
Your comment makes me wonder if a photograph of a naked woman is ever sexual in your eyes.
No, Erica, as in “Hey, I know that woman, she teaches my son’s second grade class…and I’m gonna send a copy to the superintendent complaining the teacher has nude photos on the internet.” Which will get you fired if you are a teacher.
BURNIANS,
we are born naked …
we will go naked…
our whole life…
a BURNED slideshow …
I wish I know how to explain it
we love naked bodies
I LOVE you all…
KATIE I tried very hard for the above poem …
cause I had some of POMARA’S BBQ and I am ready to explode …
oime, after the explosion, all my clothes will be on the floor…
your civilian will be naked …better find another home…
BURNIANS, BURN your clothes and scream :
I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER !!!
P.S O.k, no more torture… at least for tonight.I will Be Back
Andrea,
that’s interesting – if you think about sexy vs. sexual, there is a divide. Certainly I think a person can look sexy in an image. And certainly someone can have sexual feelings arise from looking at a photograph, even if that person in the photo wasn’t trying to be sexy and was not in a sexual act. I guess it depends on what you mean, but I do think one can be without clothes in life or in an image and it not be sexual.
Jim,
thought of you and some of your comments about DAH v. burn when on Charlie Rose I heard this:
PETER KAPLAN: I believe that the great editors are auteurs themselves…
Also the same show had some interesting perspectives on the internet/newspapers/journalism in convo with Ken Auletta and with Kaplan. Just aired, so you watch it at http://www.charlierose.com/
above not just for Jim
Erica, “I do think one can be without clothes in life or in an image and it not be sexual.” Absolutely. People in nudist camps are not sexy. These pictures are not like any pictures of people i’ve seen in nudist camps. I guess what I mean is these breast pictures are objectifying. In that they way they are sexual even if they are not especially erotic. I don’t feel that in michelangelo’s David we are being invited to admire the sexuality of David or the delightful form of his genitals. I think in pictures of nude women like we see here, we are often being invited to admire the sexual features of the woman. I think men find it hard not to photographing women in this way but it says a lot about what women mean to men. I can understand that but can’t we get past this and see women as something more than an object of man’s sexual desire, especially by zeroing in on the breasts which is facile.
Andrea, it’s so subjective – I didn’t find these images objectifying at all, though I agree with you that we were being invited to admire her form…but to me that doesn’t degrade her “to the status of a mere object.” Admiring someone’s form in and of itself doesn’t degrade, in my eyes, so therefor I’d say it doesn’t objectify. Now, on the other hand, I did experience a little “delight” when I stood at the feet of the david :)
“Delight” at the foot of David! Noooooooooooo!
Erica, No I don’t think they are degrading either. Not like pornography.
let’s be clear..not David, The David!
Erica; Weren’t you having a play with a Holga a while ago? If so how did the films turn out?
Regarding the photo essays (in general); I find that many of the photographer’s statements don’t seem to match the content, especially with the more “art photography” related essays. Maybe it’s just me being a bit thick though???
I really do enjoy many of the essays as pieces of photographic work; both as completed essays and as stand alone images. But when I read many of the statements often my first reaction is “What the hell did that mean?” Or “and how do the images reflect that statement” Maybe I should’ve gone to art school?? :-)
As an aside; I really don’t like commenting on individual essays? Why? I’m not sure, it probably says more about me than anything else! :-)
Yet I’d be quite happy to sit down with a photographer/s to have a chin wag over it. And I’ve never minded having my own work critiqued, no matter how hard the critique! A weird attitude?
Ross, I’ve come to not comment much either under the essays unless I really feel there is something I need to say, not weird (I hope!) But I am looking carefully.
Holga – it was okay, a little too perfect. I may need to try another holga/ diana, each lens is so different. Last night a friend gave me some film dated 1996, so that might improve the holga results :) Next personal project though, after I edit the California stuff, i think is with the 1959 brownie.
Erica; I shot some Velvia through the Holga (flash and B setting!)on Halloween night so am interested to see how it turned out! I think I’ll get another couple so I can have different speed/B&W on hand all the time. I always seem to have slow film in on a dark day and vice versa!
Mine seems more blurry on the right of each pic, and surounding the quite sharp lens centre (and very nice vignetting). But that seems to change too, depending on focussing. Whereas ther Isoly is quite soft all over and no vignetting. But quite a nice effect anyway! I put some practice stuff (I shot to see how it was shooting) up here; http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/22949
At the moment most of my shooting seems to start at 10pm and finish at 3-4am so I’ve just about forgotten what shooting in daylight is like! My new photographers prayer is “God pleae grant me at least a smidgen of ambient light!” :-)
they’re looking good! you and your shooting hours are a testament to anyone who says they don’t have time to shoot…
No choice Erica, when you’re shooting the kids you gotta be out when they are! Going to do some “quieter” shooting in the next few weeks. Kids getting ready to go out, hanging out at home etc… Made some good contacts on Halloween for that.
I’m trying to keep a music theme running through the project though. The project was inspired by music and I want to show how music is such a good “leveller” It allows kids from disparate backgrounds to come together etc
A loose edit of the work so far… http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/18440
What if everyone stopped commmenting on the essays? Or what if everyone just said, “yes very nice” and left it at that? Just like flickr. People who show their work here must surely have a sense of what to expect before submitting their work. They must see other critiques and unless they are totally full of their own brilliance, be a little prepared to hear some negative or critical views. If and when the time comes for me to show an essay – should I be so lucky – I have to be prepared for everyone to go “What a load of shite! What makes you think you can take pictures?” Of course if David were to let my work be shown then that’s a headstart but after that, after all the honest criticism I make, I have to be prepared for anyone to sock it to me. This is when it pays to be old enough to be able to carry on regardless. Or, even if you are young, when it pays to be so comfortable with what you are doing that you can pick and choose what is helpful and leave the rest.
But as David has said before it’s a good thing for photographers that there is this opportunity for people to receive honest critique. We don’t all have someone like David himself to give us personal feedback so a group of strangers who are photographers is a lot better than nothing and a lot better than flickr too in my opinion. Also photographers have the option of no comments if they aren’t interested in our views. I think its worthwhile if you are showing your work here to hang around long enough to be familiar with the prejudices and quirks of the various people who comment. I mean no one who makes highly impressionistic pictures should be too surprised or upset by a negative comment from Jim.
That said, I feel Eduardo has left himself more vulnerable than most by showing work that is so personal, although some here find it not personal enough. I feel that he’s made himself more vulnerable than Audrey in her family work or Sam Harris and others who’ve shot from their own personal world. But that’s the nature of the subject matter that he’s chosen to deal with. Hopefully he will gain a lot of insight from people’s comments here.
Hey, I know that woman, she teaches my son’s second grade class…and I’m gonna send a copy to the superintendent complaining the teacher has nude photos on the internet.” Which will get you fired if you are a teacher……….. There was a case about a woman doing a semi naked shoot here it caused all sorts of flack……… http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/naked-surprise-after-teacher-sacked-for-saucy-shoot/2008/05/09/1210131264160.html
A current New Zealand case http://www.smh.com.au/world/kiwi-teacher-in-hot-water-over-naked-pics-20091026-hgat.html
So the problems can be real for some…….these may be done with intent but pleading naivety may not cut the mustard with some
New stuff on Vivien Maier
http://vivianmaier.blogspot.com/
ANDREA:
” We don’t all have someone like David himself to give us personal feedback so a group of strangers who are photographers is a lot better than nothing”
Don’t you need to respect the work of the photographer giving you their feedback to be able to consider the feedback seriously? Maybe a stranger who’s work you have never seen is not going to leave much of an impression. Just thinking our loud….
Andrea; “What if everyone stopped commenting on the essays? Or what if everyone just said, “yes very nice” and left it at that? Just like flickr”
I don’t know how you misconstrued that from my comments! :-) I wasn’t saying no one ever comment again. It’s just that for some reason “I” don’t feel comfortable with it (my personal feeling). However, as I mentioned, I’d feel better sitting down over a few beers discussing it.
When I had my work critiqued by Bill Allard I posted it here so everyone could share/learn from it. And yes; it was a pretty brutal critique (but fair, and totally what I expected) So yes; I do know the benefits of a tough, warts and all, fair critique and am always happy to receive critique comments.
Imants; That case was pretty heavily covered here. What made me laugh was that they weren’t happy about the shoot, would it be the same if she was topless at the beach? I doubt it!
Pete; “Don’t you need to respect the work of the photographer giving you their feedback to be able to consider the feedback seriously?”
One word…. Yes!
Yea, thats what I thought. Hey, to you have a link to that “brutal” critique by Allard?
“I don’t feel that in michelangelo’s David we are being invited to admire the sexuality of David or the delightful form of his genitals”
…..
ha ha…
dont even try to visit any greek museum them..
you’ll get shocked….
it starts with nudity and ends with being naked..
laughing..
1:05am in grecolandia..
off to sleep…
(naked ofcourse)…
:))))))))
Ross,
No i didn’t take what you said to mean that no one should comment but the combination of yours and erica’s expressed reluctance to comment was a point to leap off from if everyone felt that way. It was not meant as a criticism of your or erica.
Pete
Certainly the value of criticism is going to much much greater from someone whose work you know and respect. But if you have no one – I have no one who fits that category – then i will be happy to hear and consider the criticism of strangers whose work I may not have even seen. If you have seen their work, that’s great. Also if you haven’t seen much of their work but have a sense of what their values and interests with regard to photography are from having read a number of their comments, then that adds value also in my opinion.
Ah Panos, but they are gods! Caricatures even! David was a mere mortal. Khujaraho, again where the Gods are going for it with every permutation of the kama sutra doens’t shock me. It isn’t shocking for anyone. These works of art go way beyond being pictures of someone’s girlfriend. Look, I’m not saying all pictures of nude women are objectifying. I’m saying these are.
Buddha said we are all gods.. if we choose to be
ok night night
ANDREA
I guess for me, I find a big difference between when a woman is the subject in a photo, as opposed to being the object in a photo…. In E’s essay I see the women as being subjects, rather than objects… * Of course this is all very subjective…..
***
Haik I will try to have a go at your comment.
“First of all – sexuality is not bad. On the opposite – It is good. Really, it is very good.”
– yes I agree but must it be turned into an object for consumption when 9 times out of 10 (historically), its women who are being sold, and to men. It’s all about the male consumption of women as sexual objects. Ok, I realise since feminism things have moved along a bit and its not quite as one-sided as it used to be. People can have a bit of fun with it now. Its a bit more balanced. That’s when its best. But in Edoardo’s pictures of his girlfriend we don’t see any of the edge that feminism ha brought to images of women. We only see women portrayed photographically as they always were. These pictures don’t reflect any awareness of social developments.
With regard to Eduardo’s pictures of his girlfriend, I think he has put his ex-girlfriend on display for public consumption and I question whether these pictures were taken, or given, with that intent at the time. The pictures of her nude are not pictures of her as a personality. Just a girl with a good body. There is also a strong sense of his appreciation of her as the object of his desire. He’s sharing that with us. I find this quite different from all the other examples of personal photography we’ve seen on Burn. It’s a lot like what Steiglitz made of Georgia O’keefe. Did he ever photograph her as an artist? I can’t remember such photos. I think photos of her as a person with interests and personality were taken by other people but it’s been a while since I’ve looked at those pictures. I’m saying this is just old fashioned women-as-object-of-desire as we’ve always seen them before feminism. Let’s see something a bit more interesting. Especially if its your own girlfriend for goodness sake. Just because you have a gorgeous girlfriend does not make your dcik any bigger. Sorry to be so crude but you know this is the impression I get from such pictures. It’s all about rubbing the male ego through a publicly acceptable form of pornography. Ie it’s all about male desire of women’s bodies. At least Viktor’s women had personalities and brains.
“I don’t feel that in michelangelo’s David we are being invited to admire the sexuality of David or the delightful form of his genitals” Yes you are invited to admire sexuality, masculinity, etc, etc. Why didn’t you? What do you see in David’s sculpture? You admire how good of a handyman was Michelangelo – but how do decide he was good? By looking at David?
Yes but not by looking at his penis.
“Why are you so tense about breasts and nudity?” … in photography, I would add.
Probably because I have been exposed to debates about the representation of women in art and photography. And probably because I have seen so much of this already and am a bit tired of women being portrayed as breasts and sex. There’s a clever ad on tele at the moment where some sleazy rich man is reading a bedtime story to his coterie of pretty girls. All typical beautiful models in silky negligees. So this all looks like the cliches of old – an ugly rich man surrounded by beautiful women whose only aim in life is to provide pleasure to this man. But the cliche falls over when the women turn out to have brains as well. The rich man tests his girls with questions to which they come up with sophisticated intelligent replies. The ad is only selling Kettle chips so its fun and silly but it shows that things have moved on a little from where they once were with regard to the portrayal of women. We don’t see anything like that in Eduoardo’s images of his ex-girlfriend. We don’t see any awareness of moving from on from age-old attitudes towards women as objects of desire. And I think if this person meant anything to him, then that’s a shame. And as Kathleen said, shows why perhaps she is no longer around.
Why do you think Edoardo’s essay is “so personal”?
The above is why I think its so personal. He has made himself vulnerable to very personal criticism by showing photographs of his girlfriend in this way and telling us about his relationship. I think that was a mistake on his part to share that with his audience. So now I hope you can understand why its a bit different from what pictures of your kids might be. Unless of course you showed us pictures of abused children or expressed something disturbing about your relationship with your kids. Sally Mann shows us pictures of her kids and I know she got criticised for exploiting them but I wouldn’t jump onto that line of complaint. She may indeed be exploiting her kids but I don’t think she means them any harm; there is nothing cliched about her images; they are not harmed by her pictures as far as I can tell but in fact they probably gain from them ultimately; but primarily her pictures have more depth of meaning. And I am sure others have defended her work better than I can. My point about Eduardo is that he has made himself vulnerable by wearing his heart on his sleeve. It makes him look pathetic. Sorry to say that but that’s where he’s put himself.
“More …
“Aren’t there women that make men as a subject of desire? Just remember the tea parties you have been to.”
What tea parties?
“What is this outburst of feminism and surreal defense for the poor ex-girlfriend? Or is it the fact that she is an ex? Would you approach the essay the same exact way if she was the current reigning significant other of Edoardo?”
I’d still think he was objectifying his girlfriend. But at least then we could be sure that she was aware of how her pictures were being used.
Haik, don’t you think that real intimacy requires, well, intimacy? Should folks who take intimate photos of their lovers then be able to splash them all over the internet after that relationship ends?
Wendy, that’s valid of course but can you articulate why you see her as subject and not object? Maybe you can persuade me to your way of seeing.
I mean can you analyse the pictures to show how…
AndreaC
I am at work right now and unable to reply in depth but am following your discussion on this subject and admire the effort to say what you mean and mean what you say. I agree with quite a lot of what you{re saying as well. I agree that Edoardo is betraying his relative lack of self-esteem by flaunting these photographs online. I think one photo suggesting the physical characteristics of his gf´s body would have been sufficient to get his point across, whatever that might be (whether showing off, reminiscing (sic?) or grieving his loss). The girl had no depth and we have to figure it´s either because he´s too superficial to see her depth or else he specifically chose to ignore it through the lens.
Look, we have all (i presume) seen photographs taken of women who were adored by the photographer. I mean, adored, body, soul, mind and soul. I can think of one German photographer in specific whose photos of his gf made me want to BE her! He was clearly enamored of the whole package so the photos captured her mystery, her sensuality, her femininity, her class, her elegance, her sense of style, her brain. I mean, as a woman this was a very powerful series of photos to view. Yes, i could feel his heart breaking with each successive photo but i never once felt he was pathetic. I felt he was being scathingly honest about the depth of his feelings and respect for this woman, right down to the last button on her white blouse and the last pearl on the necklace around her neck. I respected him utterly and by the end of this body of work had a mad crush on him as well. Do i get ANY sort of feelings on this scale with Edoardo´s photos? NOPE! I do NOT want to be that girl. That´s why i had this claustrophobic third wheel feeling that made me want to LEAVE.
um..eeks..said i wasn{t going to respond and then i did..Andrea, i know i haven´t addressed your comment to me but reading the latest posts brought other thoughts to me that i wanted to express. I also felt you needed a bit of feminine back-up. You´re making a valiant effort to convey your discomfort and i respect that about your writing today.
Best
Kathleen
correction:
¨I mean, adored, body, heart, mind and soul¨
A, that answer for me in part is because the images feel like a collaboration, and because she seems so at ease in her body, but also because the photographer’s choices feel respectful to me, in fact they feel emotionally connected and tender.
i’ll invite you to the next tea party where we debate the virtues of physique of Johnny Depp v. those of Jude Law :)
hmmn..okay, Kathleen, i’m going to watch again specifically to see if I can get the vibe you do..
Jim gets this. He should get credit for that. I’m glad at least one guy on this forum gets this aspect of Eduardo’s pictures of his girlfriend. I did think the first picture showed some tenderness but the story breaks up blah blah blah.
Kathleen, if you are going to write more, I’ll wait, though not sure I have much to add anyway. I’m in agreement mostly I think. I’ve already over-filled my quota for this week already.
well, i can get that from 24. and my fav image is the double exposure which has nothing to do with what we are talking about. but I do sense they were playfully collaborated at the time, and that he cared for her. of course she should be be aware that he is using these, but it’s a moral issue that isn’t up to me.
This is for Edoardo wherever he may be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hdT4BW9zy8&feature=related
as DAH says…Cheers
kathleen
Erica, Andrea
I had no problem with the nude photos. They weren´t disrespectful (unless she didn´t have any idea they´d be shown all overe the internet). They just didn´t persuade me of anything in particular and i didn´t FEEL anything about this essay. I agree, Erica, the double exposure photo was a killer..also, i liked the juxtaposition of the photo of the toy car in the box and the real car covered by the sheet in the garage. They both said a lot about leaving youth behind, with all the problems, joys and challenges that come with age. Also, other photos made me feel he was itchy, restless and perhaps disillusioned in and by his surroundings. But the relationship business…nah. Also, i really agree with Mimi´s comment. This essay was all aobut him. There was no air left for anyone else, not even the girl. That´s all i really feel and all i tried to express. Too much self-absorption. I just think he has a lot to learn.
Andrea, i know..i wasn´t around all day so i couldn´t get back to answer you. Forgive me.
best
kathleen
Folks, Andrea,
I am busy now. will repsond later.
just one thing.
…9 times out of 10 (historically), its women who are being sold, and to men
Not true. Think slavery where men prevailed. Or wars. It’s not as clear cut as you say. And if we narrow down to “sex” sales, 9 out of those 10 were not really forced to be sold. They sell themselves. At least in present days. They choose a profession (regardless of economic conditions of their habitat).
I’ll come back with more Cheers since I do not agree with most if not all points You, Jim, and Kathleen make.
Deferred Cheers :)
Kathleen
No answer was needed.
Erica, I guess when it comes to nudes, I am interested in images that challenge the old stereotypes, not ones that keep them going. Here’s a good one. http://www.theage.com.au/news/film/the-70s-stripped-bare/2005/07/16/1121455933362.html The article is worth reading too.
Anyway, that’s probably all I’ve got to say about this topic.
Haik
Though about slavery, you’ve gone on the wrong tack of what I was talking about. I was talking about the image of women as object of desire. Not literally, ya nong. I’m talking about imagery.
Sure haik, catchya when you get back.
I find it ironic that the people who probably demean women the most are women’s magazines; who are predominately staffed by women. It is usually those mags that tell women they are too fat, too skinny, too slutty, not slutty enough etc etc etc
It is very rare to see a male name on the editorial staff of those magazine’s mastheads; i.e. it is usually women who make the editorial decisions. A sad indictment I think of a very cynical part of the industry…
Ross its a good point but…
Not long ago I heard an ex-editor of cosmopolitan magazine talking about the issue of skinny models and the fashion magazines. It seems that she doesn’t have as much control over things you suggest. I am sorry I can’t remember all the details but she was really good to listen to and clearly has been struggling to deal with these issues for a long time. She’s got some project on the go currently. Sorry I can’t remember the details. And then over in Germany there is now a magazine that has refused to use professional models at all. Which is very radical.
But you are right there are lots of women telling the young girls that they are too fat when you and I would probably already think they look perfect.
Might be rare to see male name on editorial staff but there are many male fashion designers and apparently its them who choose the models for their shows. But I am not up on the details of debates about women and the fashion industry.
Oh i remember something now there is some move to get digitally manipulated images declared as such alongside the pictures on the page so that viewers know when its happening. And Sara O’Hare – the model wife of Lachlan Murdoch, son of Rupert, is on a campaign to get industry change. I think she fronts a magazine or exhibition without makeup and retouching. So, there is movement at the station…the words just not gotten round…
Ross in every culture women have bought into the patriarchal hegemony. Even though I grew up with feminist leanings, I didn’t grasp the significance of representations of women until I went to art school. We’ve nearly all needed educating to understand how we played out part in it. Consider grandmothers who get their granddaughters circumcised over in Africa. The girls have more to fear from their grandmothers than their fathers half the time. The fact remains that its all about appealing to the male gaze and men’s needs. On the other hand i was listening to the biographer of Freidrich Engels (as in Marx and Engels) the other day give a speech about the man. It was fascinating. And it seems he was a very good feminist. I think the book would be fascinating.
Nowadays the issues have gotten a lot more nuanced and that’s good. It’s slow to change industry and mindsets. Change is slow.
I’m supposed to be packing today. I am packing today.
mmmm… trying to write this is a challenge.. especially engaging with 3 of the writers on Burn… I guess what I see with E’s images of women are pieces of his relationships…. tender moments…. ribs and curtains…. vignettes of sorts…. his girlfriend seems comfortable with her body, which is why the photos seem like recorded moments of a love affair… of the heart….. is she being exploited? On Burn magazine?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! when viewing images of women I always think about the photogs INTENT.. and for these photos I read them as his visual expression of his life, his thoughts and his fantasies…. she is his muse…. this is part of his visual diary of their relationship…. * But what I was trying to articulate about why they don’t work for me as an essay, its because they seemed posed, without character.. I mentioned documentary vs. narrative in my comment under his photos.. I use those terms as in film (movies), his images read to me as ‘set up shots’ – those from a narrative cinema of his stills….. NOT documentary…. some of them appeared posed, pants pulled down just so, on the hip…. but done with care, and love, or lust……. which ever…. I simply see them as diary pages of his relationships with women, with memories, with himself…. I hope Burn is a safe place to show images that are respected when the iNTENT is expression. In my eyes she is clearly the subject in his photos…. the object is the belly ring….. xox
Andrea; “there are many male fashion designers and apparently its them who choose the models for their shows”
But it’s the editor and editorial team who finalise their magazines theme and focus… I’m not only talking about high end fashion mags; even the Woman’s Day type magazines are full of “Celebrity X is putting on weight” and similar stories.
And as for Cosmo? A mag that prides itself in “10 ways to please your man in bed” etc stories. Well the word credibility hardly springs to mind.
Im gonna post something a bit later because I see something ugly rearing its head here and Haik hit on it.
Ross, Yes you are right. And its tiresome, this constant harping on about weight. We are not allowed to forget that we just might not be perfect. That’s one of the nice things about places like India. The traditional women don’t have that awareness of figure that we are obsessed with. No doubt because they don’t have time for it. I suppose the other reason is that they are already half-starved. Then again the only time I look at women’s magazines is when I go to the doctors. Even my hairdresser doesn’t have women’s magazines anymore.
Cheers Wendy. btw I am not suggesting that this is not a safe place. It’s not about that as such.
Cheers Wendy. btw I am not suggesting that this is not a safe place. It’s not about that as such.
My barber shows Top Gear on the big screen! Also asks for a search fee every time I get my hair cut… :-(
A
no, burn as a safe place, was not meant for you. I wrote it b/c Jim has expressed concern over E exploiting her images on line… and Burn, in my opinion, will never be a place for an ex to post exploitative pics of ex’s… your comments are valid and appreciated…. thats what I love about art/photography… we, as viewers, get to determine how we feel, how we respond…. there is no right or wrong…. 2+2 can = 100 if we want……
cheers….
***
But Wendy I agree with the possibility that Jim suggests.
I was thinking half an hour or so ago, would you feel ok about having pictures of yourself in these poses shown on this site? Which poses of Edoardo’s girlfriend would you feel comfortable having shown on here. Even if I was still as nubile as this young woman the only pics I would want to see of myself are the ones where I am fully dressed. I would feel somewhat over-exposed if I was in the topless shots. I would not be ok with that.
On the other hand, if it was me in the pose by Carol Jerrems, I could be ok with that because that woman looks strong and in command of her situation. She’s not passive like the woman in Edoardo’s essay. Which is another thing I would emphasise, his girlfriend is portrayed as passive here. She’s not an actor in this story. She’s just the dummy to be arranged to look desirable.
I was just having a scout around the web, this is the first thing I found which is about the represententation of women in art. It happens to be about Cindy Sherman. It’s gets at what I am getting at.
http://www.learnessays.com/show_essay/174702.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/08/germanys-top-fashion.html
Love that the reason cited is not philosophical but, rather, that they are spending too
much money on adding weight in Photoshop
this is so near and dear to my heart.. my new project is on human sexuality, ones ownership of…. so all these issues I fully recognize, respect and value…. if I were his ex and these photos appeared, I would be ok with it, for I have a similar story… but they are on his website 24/7, so if there was an issue it should be addressed with him and her.. not us viewers trying to determine his intent, or her feelings….. I fully get Jims point, and am working with that very issue in my new work.. I believe it is the responsibility of the photographer… too much for me to write… I think these issues need to be addressed and discussed…. but more like with barbara krugers work or lauren greenfield… I just don’t see this issue with the current essay….. ok… I’m out…. peace……
***
………for those who are not familiar with the work of Chen Lingyang, “Twelve Flower Months” may be of interest
http://wason.library.cornell.edu/Wen/chen_lingyang.php
http://www.fotofest.org/ff2008/artists/chen_lingyang.html
If the ex-girlfriend has no problem with this use of her image, then don’t objectify her. Give us her name in the artist statement and some credit. If she was someone significant in his life at one time, I don’t get that from the essay. I keep wondering why photos of her were made at all. It appears as if the photographer was shooting the photos in this essay as a project, not nostalgically looking back on the past.
I disagree with those who have problem with the nudity.
It’s obvious that the gf knew at the time that the picture was taken, and if there wasn’t an agreement at the time that those pictures would never see the light of day I see no moral problem in the part of the photographer for publishing them. That being said I would feel better knowing that he in fact asked and got permission for publishing them.
BUT…
Nudity is often confused with intimacy.
I feel no intimacy here—besides the minimum required amount that enabled the photographer to “get the picture.”
Even though there *is* an appealing esthetic going through the whole series and I do like many of the individual pictures, in the end, this work doesn’t “work” as an essay for me. I feel like I was promised an intimate account of a personal relationship and instead got this.
Feel kind of cheated (pun :))…
Bottom line, nice pictures but I don’t see the depth that was supposed to be there.
11:17am
grecolandia…
time to bathe myself with milk and honey…
take a dive in pool full of virgin olive oil..
and eventually..
put my clothes back on…
:)
Ok, I have to chime in here because this is getting ridiculous. And as usual Jim is leading the stupidity charge. I have to step in to defend Edoardo. Jim, he has ZERO need to justify anything here to you or anyone. He has zero need to give her name, he has zero need to defend the authenticity of this essay to anybody here. Get over yourself Jim. You know, the same fucking crap was leveled at me and I refused to play along and Edoardo should ignore it as well. Why is this objectifying her? I see no objectification here, Jim. I would say you went far, FAR further in objectifying the Indian when you stuck words in his mouth out of either sheer laziness or something far worse. Tell me where you see the “objectification.” because he showed her breasts? Geez, what a lame, tight ass way of thinking Jim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USWLHcRIdBU
…Leonard Cohen-Memories
(I said, “Won’t you let me see your naked body?”)
“Frankie Lane, he was singin’ ‘Jezebel’
I pinned an Iron Cross to my lapel
I walked up to the tallest and the blondest girl
I said, “Look, you don’t know me now but very soon you will
So, won’t you let me see?”
I said, “Won’t you let me see?”
I said, “Won’t you let me see your naked body?”
Just dance me to the dark side of the gym
Chances are I’ll let you do almost anything
I know you’re hungry, I can hear it in your voice
And there are many parts of me to touch, you have your choice
Ah, but no you cannot see
She said, “No you cannot see”
She said, “No you cannot see my naked body”
So we’re dancing close, the band is playing ‘Stardust’
Balloons and paper streamers, they’re floating down on us
She says, “You’ve got a minute left to fall in love”
In solemn moments such as this, I have put my trust
And all my faith to see, I said, all my faith to see
I said, all my faith to see her naked body
Oh, oh, naked body, oh, oh, all my faith to see
All my faith, oh, oh, all my faith
Oh, oh, all my faith to see her naked body
Her naked bo-bo-body
And all my faith to see, I said, all, all my faith
I said, all, all, all my faith to see
All my faith to see her naked body”
big hug y’all..( getting dressed now )
I might be out of touch on this but I don’t know what cutting edge photographer is showing traditional looking nudes these days. I haven’t seen any for a very long time. That’s why these look so traditional. In fact, these are traditional nudes. If there is someone still showing nudes and winning important prizes, artists grants or funding, or receiving rave reviews from the critics or even receiving serious criticism from art critics, please let us know. The nude – as we see it here – has been dead and gone for a long time, as far as I am aware. But as I say, there are perhaps artists whose work has passed me by.
Wendy this is not about his intent or her feelings. It’s about the way women are portrayed in images. It’s about the way women are portrayed in society. I think he is unaware of the significance of his images. She also.
Thod, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the photographer took the pictures without the girl knowing it. As you say, its obvious she was a participant in the process. What we don’t know is whether she knew or knows that her pictures are being shown on the web for general consumption.
I used to coat myself in olive oil for sunbaking on the beach in Rhodos, Greece! The stupid things you do when young!
there are perhaps artists whose work has passed me by…
yes .. check a really cool fun guy under the name Antoine D’Agata…
big hug
Andrea,
oh puhlease, the world doesn’t revolve around your agenda. It never fails to amaze me how some can twist what is essentially a personal, innocent essay, into something totally unrecognizable. Reading the above discussion gave me a stomachache, to be honest. Which is a euphemism I will use to refrain from letting you know the extent of my true feelings. Out of respect for David only since we are in his “house.”
Rafal I know you don’t have a clue about this issue. I remember reading one of your comments about women once before. This is not my personal agenda Rafal and i am sure your opinion of women in photography is of little interest.
Panos, I had a very brief glimpse, will look more later. Now his work seems to be more interesting. Incomparable to Edoardo’s isn’t it.
Yeah, I’m clueless. Better that than bitter. This essay isn’t the first essay on Burn marred by opinions such as yours, and I’m sure it won’t be the last, just as I’m sure you don’t let facts get in the way of forming your worldview.
“That’s one of the nice things about places like India. The traditional women don’t have that awareness of figure that we are obsessed with. No doubt because they don’t have time for it. I suppose the other reason is that they are already half-starved.”
a pretty blunt double edged sword – too wonky.. too general.. telling nonetheless.
just caught your idea for snapping away at beggers and giving them a copy of your book andrea.. awful to imagine.. terrible.. sorry..
self styled photo-celeb ‘zoriah’ does a great line in tragedy tourism workshops… they’re very expensive and you have to bring your own leather fingerless gloves..
– India: Beggars life. Spend one week documenting the life of homeless or “untouchable” man or woman
http://www.zoriah.com/workshops.html
with half-life –
i think it is ridiculous to assert that she is an unaware party in this, when his website features her heavily.. and some couples are more than capable of remaining tight friends..
as an argument it’s a non-starter for me.
Andrea; Re; the magazine comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RLJwCT7BDA
And since Panos mentioned Leonard Cohen, how about one of his proteges?
..and – reading snappers work in an autobiographical way still remains one of the most interesting aspects for me.. whoever it is and whatever their own or others statements might be..
just me? ahh well..
Rafal, how can essays here be “marred by opinions?” They are only opinions. No more or less valuable than yours.
Hi all, sorry for the late but still no Internet at home…
What to say…you have transformed my work in a work of pornography!
Quite sad I think, is incredible, to me, how the nude stuff in my essay could have generated this sort of discussion. Anyway, I respect your opinions.
Just to pacify you I want to say that firstly, the full frontL boobs shot was not my girlfriend, secondly, this work il well known by the people involved (this work has been showed at the foto festival of Rome too for example). My ex gf has the ribs picture hanging on her room’s wall. Again, we are still in the lifes of each other and for sure she will be again part of the work…
Two more points. This is the first time this work generate reactions like yours, I wouldn’t expected the first time would have been on burn…
What about objectivisation; I think is part of the desire itself, and to me photography is really related to desire. That said I don’t see that much in the nude pics of half life. I can assure you that there’s always been collaboration. My ex gf is a photographer herself and I’m in a lot of her pictures too (you can Finder them on the net).
I’m not much in Goldin’s work, but I wonder what you think about…
Rafal, regarding your questions… My contention is that Edoardo’s narrative is clichéd. I’ll agree that if it is not clichéd, then I am way off the mark. But if it is clichéd, then the answer to all your questions is yes. Yes, it is easier to communicate a story through clichés than by attempting to do more original work. That’s true in any medium. And I hope you weren’t writing about me when you mentioned personal attacks. If I can’t say something constructive, I try real hard not to say anything at all.
Earlier in this thread, I was surprised to see the question of whether or not one should respect a critique from someone whose work in the field one doesn’t respect. I thought that question had been answered long ago, or even recently by the likes of Walter Benjamin, Susan Sontag, Pauline Kael, et. al. To evaluate the critic rather than the criticism is logically fallacious in an ad hominem kinda way.
edoardo, so what exactly is this essay about? Your artist’s statement seems to be a lie and your essay a construct. Conceptual photography gone wrong. Waste of time.
Never be dishonest with your audience. A lot of folks take this stuff seriously.
I would like to apologize for my naked cow photo. Seriously.
tom, I’m a country boy so it’s cows with clothes that seem obscene. ;)
No apologies required.
Jim, I think you should pass more time shooting and less commenting on others
Eduardo
I’m as puzzled as you about the discussion here. I wouldn’t take it too seriously.
Wendy
“I think these issues need to be addressed and discussed…. but more like with barbara krugers work or lauren greenfield… I just don’t see this issue with the current essay….. ”
I’m in agreement with you.
I have to agree with Rafal here.
EDOARDO: I think there are some really good images here. I don’t see an essay though. But that is no matter. As for the nudity, I see no problem with it but I think you really only needed one of them. I don’t know if they are all different women, but I don’t think that matters. To me one of the images would have worked better than three.
After looking at it all again, I think it may work better (in my opinion) with some more editing.
Regardless. Like I said there are some really nice images here.
Again…
please watch the new video from Rammstein …
this is europe’s answer to conservatism
( and plz plz..if u start this video..plz u gotta Finish it..)
have fun y’all..its high resolution…
http://visit-x.net/rammstein/
or click here if link was inactive
http://www.metalinjection.net/av/rammsteins-pussy-nsfw-music-video
EDOARDO,
You are a BURNIAN and as a BURNIAN the Universe is with YOU…
“So when you are listening to somebody, completely, attentively, then you are listening not only to the words, but also to the feeling of what is being conveyed, to the whole of it, not part of it.”
Jiddu Krishnamurti quotes (Indian Theosophist Philosopher)
thank you for listening …and VIVA ITALY
…VIVA Universe …I love everyone …
I love you all …tear your clothes and scream…
I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER
P.S I am drinking mountain tea and I am sweating …
Viva Germany….:))))))))))))
PANOS,
come over …to drink some ouzo and I have grilled chicken boobs …
VIVA AMERICA and VIVA AFRICA AND AUSTRALIA and ASIA…
Where are my Africans friends ???
to get serious though ( who me????)
Edoardo..:)
your essay was a great success…
it touched everyone’s soul/subconscious
one way or another..
u havent been ignored…
fine italian art…
not everyone can drive a ferrari…
and thats good..
u r not for everybody..
and thats great…
big hug from the country of Moustaches…
( ok, putting my clothes on and running downstairs for a beer..)
;-)
..civi,
im on my way…
but, did u say African friends???
ahhh u wont see them coz they are trying to
dodge the fucking heartless greek border patrol and
police…
they are hiding , trying to survive the corrupted state..
and all they ask is a better future for their families..
but the nasty cops wont let them..
ahh u just open the pandora’s box..
;)
Over 2,000 comments on one thread. is that a new burn/roadtrip record?
has anyone done any of the Momenta workshops? If so please let me know, would like to chat offline with anyone who’s done one….
good light all,
A.
Andrew…
i did a presentation last month in San Francisco at the
Momenta Workshops… for DAH…
it was great fun..
big hug
Still trying to figure out who the “German photographer” Kathleen mentioned earlier is…
David B
I feel you missed the point of my comments that you commented on. About indian women – they are not caught up in their own body image as we are in the west partly because they don’t have the magazine and fashion culture we have. My comment that they too busy and half-starved is not a criticism of them. Rather its more that I feel sympathy for them with regard to these aspects of their lives which are often very hard. Malnutrition is still an extremely widespread phenomenon amongst the rural popluation of india. They may not have famine anymore but they now they just can’t afford the grain that india has more than enough of.
About the beggers – as I said, I am not planning on doing such a project. This idea merely occur to me, prompted by an image I have on file, which i saw again as I was going through my pictures from my last trip. It was of an indian god that which has many missing limbs. I’ll put it on my link in the next day or two if I remember. I saw something potentially meaningful in the juxtaposition of images of Indian Gods with dignified portraits of beggers. I mentioned it here in the context of another debate we were having. It’s the only reason I mention it. Surely everyone comes up with ideas that they discard or have no intention of pursuing. You can’t criticise someone for having an idea.
It’s good to know finally that the girls in Edoardo’s pictures are aware of its being shown here/publicly.
Mark W,
I know I can’t figure it out and I figured she can’t remember who it is either but I’m curious too.
ALL…
my apologies for not hanging out….i hate excuses for anything, but i do have a pretty good one…i simply have not had the net while in Oaxaca in any sensible way…crowded net cafes for 15 mins at a time is just not my thing…i will not write much now either….Mike Courvoisier and i got in late last night in NYC after a long trip from Oaxaca, Mexico and the Day of the Dead..4 hours of freezing tossing and turning sleep in my NY loft which was curiously without heat…no matter, we had to catch an early flight down to Washington for our show at the Fight Club….a seriously alternative exhibition space…please log on to: http://www.davidalanharveypresents.com and you will see what is going on tonight….should be lots of fun i think with a blues band, skateboarders, barbeque, and more likely than not, some cold beer etc etc…
my plan is to duck out early because i have to catch a cab at 5am to cruise right on back down to Mexico…yea, crazy i know…stay at the party and sleep on the plane?? hmmmm, a decision for later…i just left the venue to make sure all was ok….all i can say is that i truly love alternative exhibition spaces…this one has gotten a lot of local and national publicity, so i have a feeling the night will be one to remember…point is, some of you will have prints on the walls along with singular shows by Chris Bickford and Michael Loyd Young whose essays have been published here on Burn and who both have new books out..also featuring the work of super bass player/photographer A.J. Wilhelm who i hope to publish on Burn soonest ..
in 2010, i plan more one person shows by some of you and certainly more alternative space shows around the U.S. and internationally as well…this is just the beginning of our gallery “road trips” and i welcome thoughts, as usual, from you….
yes, yes i know i am way way behind on a new Dialogue post and i have so much to tell you….i should have the net all week in San Miguel de Allende…patience please is always my request…and yes, Anton is shooting Yakuza for the next four weeks , so i have to drive this truck all by myself…then, i will be shooting for at least 6 weeks straight on a magazine assignment, so he will have to drive…just please know that whether i have the net or not and no matter how long it takes, i go through every single submission for Burn…Anton helps me screen and we will have some new editors to do the same, but i personally see and approve of everything and edit for those photographers who ask for it..
ok, i gotta take a nap…45 minutes worth…. it is almost show time….
cheers, david
Brother Panos….
I’m thinking about the Momenta workshop in Miami with DAH…..will email you….
Looking for feedback on how Momenta “classifies” their workshops. The one with DAH is “Level 2”, which, if they are really accurate, sounds just right for me…..but I’d rather be in over my head than wading along when I want to really swim….
Kind of between that one and waiting to see the next loft or other personal workshop with David A H….
any thoughts apperciated.
Oh, and if anyone is in West Palm Beach ping me – will be there next week.
David AH
Nice to hear from you. You sure sound busy. Don’t worry about us, things are chugging along here as always. Though if something is going on behind the scenes, I can’t tell. You sound as though you are stressing about us. But we are fine. At least on the surface, things look fine.
About alternative art spaces. I have to agree they are great. Even in our little town we have a buzzing alternative art space scene. Much too sophisticated for a city of 150 000, surely, but there you go. If anyone is curious, its called The Upholstery. The driver of the whole story is a clever artist called Daniel Wallwork but it’s set up as a artist-community project rather than a one-man show. I live 60km away so I don’t get along to many events but its certainly give this town art of substance. Daniel, better known as Wally, makes fabulous sculptures from beautifully spray-painted car body parts. http://www.artereal.com.au/DanielWallwork.html
Damn, I just broke the strap off my nightie screaming “I am a PHOTOGRAPHER!”
Andrew…:)
yes email me …
i can only say good things about momenta…
yes yes i know..im biased …
Jaimie and Chris A. ( momenta san fran organizers) are now my friends but if
u dont believe me ask DAH…
Level 2 or any level doesnt really matter coz DAH is
always the “same”… a Master… the Man…
the official Magnum Teacher…
u cant go wrong…
He pays the appropriate attention..
help u edit
push u..
he will also present his work…but he also brings guest photogs
to open up ones mind even more,,
explain the “why” and “how” etc…
and since DAH is around ( possibly sleeping )
i wanna thank him once again ( this time in public )
for the huge honor …
by letting me present my work ( and interact )with his
students…
anyway..
big hug
Andrew,
Any DAH workshop is a blast – I have taken 1, been present on the side in San Fran’s Momenta, and could not make it to the beach house last month. And I regret the latter. Levels don’t matter – DAH will drill in you on any level. And Momenta folks, Chris and Jaimie, are just superb.
Take the class – it’s a life changing experience.
Thanks panos….and glad to hear of the turnaround in Greece for you……you sounded so down there for a while, and then (as is often the case for us all) BOOM! something cool happens.
The Momenta workshop in Miami is (I think) built around David’s personal project, as he says he “we will be shooting together”…..but a workshop like this is a big commitment for me, I dont’ want to choose the wrong one and then later find out I should have waited a bit and done one that he produces himself….
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif09?authkey=Gv1sRgCMHYsNqwiP2CpwE#slideshow/5389996794581608786
Andrew take another tease from San Fran above…:))))
( its all about nudity anyways..:))
——————————————————————————-
and glad to hear of the turnaround in Greece for you……you sounded so down there for a while..
ahhhhhhhh.. nevermind about me…
im always “down” and depressed all the time…
actually the more “down” i am, the better pictures i do…
it works for me ( and marcin ) i think
big hug
ps: i second haik…:)
Mark W;
You’re not thinking of Helmut Newton are you? I watched a doco on him a couple of nights ago on TV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Newton
Mark W
Sorry to be a tease (well, not always sorry but this time i am)..the German photographer was a very good amateur whose work i caught on Altphotos.com. Unfortunately i just knew him by an alias and i believe he long ago departed those hallowed halls. But the b&w series he did with film of his girlfriend will forever be memorable to me.
Panos
Antoine D´Agata did nudes but of a very different sort. A very different sort indeed. Loaded for bear (not bare, heh) you might say. Scathingly blunt statements about intimacy, sex, desire, self-loathing, love, passion, need, drive, longing..need i go on? He presented a slide show here in Costa Rica a month or so ago and i must say he left his primarily young audience with their chins banging the floor. To see a slide show of his in a dark room pretty much means signing on for a brutal confrontation within yourself. I wouldn´t have missed it for the world. I think AndreaC is right. I don´t know anyone cutting edge doing nudes these days. I wanted to say Ralph Gibson or Bill Brandt but they are far from cutting edge.
AndreaC
Stieglitz did take some photos of Georgia in front of her work. I have only seen one of those and she is kind of clutching at her breasts through her usual white blouse. Apparently Steiglitz was all about marketing Georgia´s work for their perceived sexuality (guess he knew what sells). But her will, fortitude and strength was always apparent to me in his photos, no matter how much he may have tried to crop it out, so to speak :) She was far from your usual trophy wife.
Best
Kathleen
I don´t know anyone cutting edge doing nudes these days…
laughing..
i do..i do…i will post monday…
but first i need to make sure i will split with my girlfriend over the weekend…
ok..monday..i promise..
ok..fuck it ..i’ll do it tonight…
stay tuned..
Ok, Panos! You´re on! be back later to catch the list..i feel like getting down with some nudes tonight…hehe..
Wendy
Man, didn´t know you ever did consecutive sentences. Holy cow..great to see you spout off for a change! Obviously your current project has you thinking A LOT..
ok, gotta go 4 now.
Kathleen
Kathleen
Didn’t Bill Brandt depart this life a while ago. His nudes are pretty old. I Love Bill Brandt though.
I agree with you about O’Keefe, she was very much her own person from my study of her. I hadn’t thought of Steiglitz photography as a marketing tool though. Actually I remember O”keefe herself being somewhat bemused by all the fuss about the sexuality of her work that went on when her earliest drawings were shown. She herself if I remember correctly was not actually about representing female sexuality at all but the critics couldn’t leave it alone. Freud was just making his mark felt at the time people were keen to read subconscious meanings in things, not to mention sexuality being such a hot topic amongst freudians. Very interesting anyway. I think O’Keefe was an intuitive artist. She followed her own drift without trying to impose too much intellectual baggage on it. That’s what i gathered anyway.
d’agata’s work is not insipid by any means. I wouldn’t dismiss it as being mere nudes. I wouldn’t dismiss it full stop. But I must have a closer look sometime. I laughed at the chin on the floor comment. It’s pretty confronting stuff.
Panos’s video left me with my chin on the floor somewhat. I had to go and cool off. A clever vid. but its not my cup of tea. I think it would interest people who really love their porn. I never did like heavy rock either. Too much testosterone.
PANOS
Do some nudes of yourself!! Leaves the girls out. That would go further towards being cutting edge. Although I i know there is still competition out there along those lines too so you had better make it good.
Do some nudes of yourself!! Leaves the girls out.
????
but why leave em out?
they posed for me..
its all with 28mm lens..
why discriminate? leave’em out?
they posed for me…
plus who wants to see my crooked unattractive naked mess????
i mean seriously..
i dont want to traumatize anyone..
plus ..what if later i decide to be a priest or a cop?
or even worst ..the next president of the united states?
you guys talk to much :|
panos nude? will you pay?
what if Panos becomes a teacher or a priest? or decides to shoot in africa for Jim Power’s magazine?
i would never shoot myself nude..
unless i divorce with myself..
then i wouldnt care…
Panos; Or worse still; a pre-school teacher….
and if..i ever shoot my self nude ..
i would still post it but i would never reveal that to me..
that will be my dirty little secret!!!!
ok ok…
i will pose nude…
gimme 5 minutes..
stay tuned..
( if my flickr account is still active i’ll post it there..)
haik… dont i have a topless one on converses?
I know a priest that specializes in those kinds of crooked divorces. Here in Glendale, where else?
Do you want a lawyer?
ACHTUNG: YOUR SCREEN WILL NOW FLICKR</B. YOU MAY EXPERIENCE SEIZURES.
STAY TUNED – IT IS COMING.
Almost ready …
BACKSTAGE TALK:
AndrewB – there were posts with over 4K comments. 2k is nothing….
IN THE NUDE…EXPLICIT… do not open at work..
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Desktop?authkey=Gv1sRgCOzO17OUsLWrSw#5401495986338860978
so…r u happy now?
can i keep shooting the ladies?
or u want more ?
and WHAT NOT TO LOVE ?
yes u can…
btw.. can i still be a pre school teacher?
was that cutting edge?
little blurry but thats just a style..
and no photoshop..
so next time i hear fake bullshit, about exploitation..
and slavery..and blah blah..
remember.
we dont only do the talk..
we also do the walk… motherf*****s..
laughing my ass off..
big hug
ps:
am i allowed now to post the nudes i was talking about?
what? seizures?
Permission granted. Bring in the nudes now …
Edorado? Where is that hard drive, bambino?
u see what i mean haik?
they wanna play, they tease u, they bluff.. and when i say ok..then
they put their tail between their legs and run..
scared..
tired of that shit..
no balls..
all talk..
:(
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa haa Panos. You shocked me! I don’t know about cutting edge but its definitely more interesting/original than pretty girls with pretty boobs that’s for sure.
Come on pretty girls with pretty boobs are boring. Think of something else.
and for the history…
the above nude is shot from the girl-friend that im about to
expose and exploit later on…
enough with with all this fake sensitive bullshit…
demeaning and trashing Edoardo’s work over a sense of boobs..
and then we dare calling ourselves artists…
utter crap and tons of jealousy..
thats my message..
As Edoardo said earlier go out and shoot and talk with your work..
big hug
over and out
sense of boobs..
pair, i meant…
laughing…
Andrea im glad u liked it..
i didnt mean to shock u…
glad u got the joke
big hug
Panos, not “shock” as in upset. You’re a good sport.
I am sorry if I’ve hurt Edoardo’s feelings but I think the issue is more important. Ok, enough from me. Hopefully.
You’re gonna expose and exploit me, are you? I think you might want to re think that idea. Find someone new, who consents to that.
Haha, Andrea, no probs, I understand you. No worries. No hurtings. ;)
Panos, nice ass!!!
10.58 am 2 hours before the lunchtime strippers perform at the local
Edoardo…
thanks…..
glad u got the joke………..
one photo speaks more than 1000 words…
or was it 10.000 words
laughing my ass off
:))))))))))
ok..
that was a fun night ..
time for some music…
lets see..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqJEGIaQwP8
Ignorance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SET-5EMAqyg
Jealousy
Hey Haik ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6asMGoX2DY
oh oh…
jazz police is here.. now we are all scared
Can you tell me why the bells are ringing?
Nothing’s happened in a million years
I’ve been sitting here since Wednesday morning
Wednesday morning can’t believe my ears
Jazz police are looking through my folders
Jazz police are talking to my niece
Jazz police have got their final orders
Jazzer, drop your axe, it’s Jazz police!
Jesus taken serious by the many
Jesus taken joyous by a few
Jazz police are paid by J.Paul Getty
Jazzers paid by J.Paul Getty II
Jazz police I hear you calling
Jazz police I feel so blue
Jazz police I think I’m falling,
I’m falling for you
Wild as any freedom loving racist
I applaud the actions of the chief
Tell me now oh beautiful and spacious
Am I in trouble with the Jazz police?
Jazz police are looking through my folders …
:)))))))))))
“nothing more dangerous than the idiots with self respect”..
Nikodimus 680bc
Dearest Panos, Don’t get cranky. Next time you threaten to expose and exploit someone, maybe just don’t do it on a public forum, huh? If you do, expect a retort. It’s really quite simple. I’m fine with you getting angry, just keep it in mind, you are not permitted to exploit me, I will NOT sit down and take it.
“over and out”
Freida
ok… i just made that up…
g’night girls…2:19am in grecolandia..
too drunk to read
c ya when i c ya…
one more fun night is over…
church in the morning
gotta go..
OK Burnians:
David is too proud to ask us for our financial support. Please drop a dollar in the bucket. It’s amazing that DAH has kept BURN operating with this ragtag group. I’ve just had a good month and I’m sharing it with a great group of folks. Please donate
Let’s remember, BURN needs some cash to maintain our “channel”.
My favorite radio stations is WDVX in Knoxville, TN. They are in the middle of their fundraiser and it made me realize that BURN can grow with your support just like public radio. I really wish BURN could be sponsored by Crockett Creek Beef Jerky!
Let’s start a fundraiser!
So, if we contribute do we get a free CD of DAH singing Leonard Cohen standards? A CD is usually the gift at the $100 level you know.
Haik
Ok moving away from the representation of women as the issue as in a feminist perspective which few of the guys here seem to care about, nudes like this are old, passe, tired, boring. Surely if people are serious about their photography, they are interested in doing and seeing and showing something fresh. If you are interested in beauty, know that, as always art is better when someone’s idea of beauty is original and shows us something new, something we haven’t seen before. Not what we already know ad nauseum. Pictures of pretty girls will always be pretty pictures, unless someone is trying to make pretty girls look ugly or some other variant of edgy, but that’s a different thing to the sort of pictures that I’ve been going on about. To make a pretty face attached to a nice naked body fresh you are going to have to work pretty hard. You may find a market for your cliche nudes and if that’s all you want, fine, but few at the serious end of the art world will take you seriously. As I said earlier I wasn’t aware of any nudes doing the circuit of photography galleries these days – most artists are indoctrinated with feminist principles at art school so at least they understand what its about – ah except one notable exception and when you look, you will see why he is taken seriously – Bill Henson again. Though one would not refer to his work as “nudes”. His work is controversial because his pictures are of teenagers. But his pictures are a far cry from these pretty nudes on any and every level than the ones I’ve been talking about.
http://www.roslynoxley9.com.au/artists/18/Bill_Henson/98/33495/ for pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Henson for a quick overview
if we contribute do we get a free CD of DAH singing Leonard Cohen standards
No, you’ll be redirected to youtube video of Martin Parr dancing in Walmart on a 50% discounted poker/diner table in aisle 469 between luxury items aisle and imported British food aisle.
;-)))) U have a way, Haik……..it is funny!
HAIK
You kill me..
PANOS
You slay me
ANDREAC
i want your persevering, always thinking, always musing brain
PANOS..baby..without knowing it, see, what you did was show so much of yourself in that photo. You’re full of sass and humor..either your ego is so huge you don’t care what we think or so small you don’t care what we think..either way, what i think is i would MUCH rather see Panos with his pants around his knees, laughing at me over his shoulder than all the photos of pretty tits in the world. And no because i’m a woman…NOOOOO, don’t go there..but because you don’t take yourself seriously which means i can enjoy the realness of you..i see YOU in that photo far more than i see those women in Edoardo’s photos. Except the last one where the woman is smiling at the table and all the world lights up around her. Now THAT’S a great portrait!
ANDREAC
I just came up with Bill Brandt like suddenly…nudes to me equal Bill and Ralph..and yeah, no doubt he’s dead..just was thinking nudes and his name popped into my head.
HAIK…your Martin Parr comment was absolutely hilarious…aisle 469…ohmygawd….we finally got a Walmart here in CR. It’s called HyperMas and it’s owned by Walmart..anyway, i was looking for a taxi to take me around that place it’s so huge. I couldn’t see from one end to the other. And what was worse? All three things i went there for they didn’t even have. So screw Walmart if they think i’m ever going back there.
Ok..now you guys made me laugh instead of cry over my poor helpless Lacie external hard drive that’s sitting right beside me crippled. I can push the button and it turns on but it won’t open and i’m trying not to freak out. I have to shortly rendezvous with my tech at the Kentucky Fried Chicken at 11pm tonight to give it to him to see if he can massage it back to life. Say a prayer for me. And the first person who asks me about backup gets a punch in the nose. So don’t go there either, Haik..
cheers and tears
kathleen
Kathleen,
Let’s try and uncripple that Lacie. Lucie, Lacie, what’s the difference. we do ’em all.
PS. Did you buy the Lacie from HyperMas?
PS PS. Tech and KFC? that’s worse than HyperMas :). kiddin’. Try him. if feeing Lacie with chicken nuggets does not work out, let me know. Tell KFC-man to plug the bare hard drive directly and see if it got a pulse. Seems like your usb/firewire thingy is kaput. praying but not for long cause i’ll be drinking at an “mandatory” engagement party in an hour.
And i don’t have a backup either.
Haik
hahaha,i doubt chicken nuggets is gonna entice Lacie. She can’t be bought off that cheap. She’s my hard drive after all and um, high maintenance like your’s truly. Like mother like HD, ha know? Yeah, my man at KFC is gonna plug a keyboard into her and play her favorite notes, see if he can get a wriggle out of her hips. He is encouraged because i told him that beyond the motor turning on i also hear the whir of little wheels turning in her head even though they do then simply stop and her ready light refuses to light up. KFC man said maybe it’s just a corrupt file. Hope it’s not hundreds of gigas of corrupt files or else i am gonna switch to painting on canvas and screw technology. But hey, one thing abut shooting film is i always got those negs. Of course i also shoot digital but that’s only about 10% of my work so..but, but..ok, no i am not going to panic, not going to panic, not going to panic.
So, you’re getting engaged without a back-up plan huh? hahaha, well, if the party’s not fun then just drop off the key, Lee, make a new plan Stan, don’t need to be coy, Roy, just getcherself free..oh, wait, it’s not you getting engaged? nevermind.
*:)*
katie
Kathleen
I just bought a new hard drive. I didn’t know anything about Lacie’s when someone mentioned this option, so I didn’t buy it instead of the Western Digital. Good luck with it. The more this tech world develops the more ambivalent I feel about it. I wish training was complimentary with purchase.
My brain, I assure you, you would not want.
Haik, you are Panos?
Panos, you are Haik?
You look the same. Glamour shot, lol etc, I’m with Kathleen on the merits of your self-portraits.
AndreaC
OH, i know..about technology, i feel like a deer in the headlights most of the time. When i least need or expect it, my internet won’t talk to the satellite or vice versa, my computer refuses to acknowledge my external drive, my router won’t rout, my entire town disappears off my cable company’s radar (Ciudad Colon? Well, exactly where IS that, Senora?), a truck smashes into a pole and trashes my IP’s fiber optics, my memory card doesn’t remember, my card reader can’t read, my Mac thinks it’s a PC and freezes, and finally, as in tonight’s last straw, a recent visitor to my home who shall remain nameless other than to say he’s a JERK, unplugged my computer from my router, plugged in his Window’s laptop and gave my freaking external hard drive with ten year’s worth of work a VIRUS! Fortunately i just bought a blue ray burner with double sided DVD’s and my tech is going to do what i should have done a month ago, BACK-UP my work and then reinstall the operating system.
AndreaC, this is NOT how i expected to spend my Saturday night and right now your brain has to be way ahead of mine.
anyway, it’s midnight and i am going to binge out on banana bread before finally admitting that the evening has been a total wash. Hope your new day is better than my old Saturday.
i am tired but happy to know that my work has not been lost!
bah-bah
kathleen
Kathleen,
Call me Andrea. I don’t why that C is so stuck to my name.
Given your tech headaches, I can see that my brain feels better than yours at the moment. Anyway, you are doing pretty well to still be online. Backing up – when you do that with Time Machine (assuming that’s what you have), don’t forget to “select” the bits you want to keep rather than letting it copy the whole lot. I didn’t do that and my hard drive is clogged up with junk. To free up some room for my trip pics, I have to reformat the thing which means wiping it clean. I hope it works but it also means I have to sacrifice somethings that i’d probably rather keep if i had a choice.
It’s been a few hours since I was here last, I hoped that Panos would have been back with a new pic of himself.
what i think is i would MUCH rather see Panos with his pants around his knees, laughing at me over his shoulder than all the photos of pretty tits in the world.
ok…
on A SERIOUS note now..
last night i was trying to prove a point to Andrea and all of a sudden i learned a lesson myself…
when i woke up this morning i realized that i dont need to try to impress people with cliches of
pretty naked bodies…( im not referring to Edoardo’s work though- i only talk about my work..)
yes i finally see Andrea’s point…
it is not that cutting edge anymore trying to impress with body parts..especially cute ones..
All u can achieve really is to inflate the ego of some dump “super model”
or some girl with another “cute face”
and suck on a stereotype of what beauty is
once again….
A symmetrical ( cute ) face doesnt necessarily create a cute photo…
Inflating the ego of an immature soul can only create problems…
honestly i’d rather photograph an ugly whore and “brag” that i was with her than
shoot the retarded “cutie” just to prove that i can get laid…
enough soul bragging…
so..no more “cute” asses from me…
id rather turn my lens on my own cellulite than a supermodel’s..
thank u Andrea
thank u Kathleen…
a fine lesson i learned last night from u too..
a fine lesson indeed..
and i fell asleep with the impression that i schooled u..
strange..
big hug..
time for a coffee..
:))))))))
Andrea, Kathleen. Are you familiar with this womans work?
http://www.margaretmdelange.com/index.html
Really nice work IMO. Being scandinavian it will probably give jim apoplexy. which is good right?
What do you think of this jim? pointless? exploitative? indecent? ….or just really well made family pictures.
PS the book is very nice, if a little short.
john
A symmetrical ( cute ) face doesnt necessarily create a cute photo…
and definitely doesnt necessarily belong to a CUTE( healthy ) SOUL…
(unfortunately my experience kinda prove the exact opposite…)
8:48am
grecolandia..
just woke up//
raining like seattle…
coffee coming up..
slept good..
no dreams.. ( no dreams for me is always good )
let me get it together ( yeah right!!!)
and i’ll be back
( john sorry , didnt mean to “sandwich” your post )
john gladdy
November 8, 2009 at 1:47 am
Andrea, Kathleen. Are you familiar with this womans work?
http://www.margaretmdelange.com/index.html
Really nice work IMO. Being scandinavian it will probably give jim apoplexy. which is good right?
What do you think of this jim? pointless? exploitative? indecent? ….or just really well made family pictures.
PS the book is very nice, if a little short.
john
Andrea without the C
Um, first, i am not going to do the backup myself. The external drive is so fu**ed that it’s in the ICU at my tech’s house. Second, i fortunately had the wisdom to special-order an external Blu-Ray burner and double sided Blu-Ray (re: massive) DVD’s from the US about a month ago so that means the tech has a place to actually put all my work before he formats the drive and re-installs the operating system. Or whatever. I’m an idiot, what do i know? All i care about is that in 3 days more or less i should have my drive back with all my photos and several DVD’s as back-up. And a large bill.
Ok, what have i learned from all this? 1)por supuesto, backup, backup, backup..and 2) guest rooms are highly overrated. Have guest room, have guests. Nuff’ said. :(((((
Nope, Panos has not been back and i am outta here.
(Goodmorning, Civi!)
k/
http://www.margaretmdelange.com/index.html
FANTASTIC WORK…
AMAZING…SPEECHLESS…
now this photographer wouldnt even get a tourist visa to enter the States…
she would be immediately charged as pedophile and spend the rest of her life
in San Quentin death row…
thanks john …
again , amazing work from margaret..
( i hope jim did NOT have a stroke over the “daughters” work )
Yikes
While i’ve been sitting here bemoaning my tech problems, here Panos has been here with a serious message…(and who said it couldn’t be done?) and John’s (one of my favorites) is posting links..and i wanna go to bed? waaaaaaaa..i’m in the wrong time zone, dammit! ok, gonna check John’s link..before i vanish..
Panos..
well, you know, you’re photo actually helped ME to better articulate the problem i had with the current essay. Actually, it made the issues as clear as day. What would i rather see? What engages me more, what connects me to the subject? Panos’ wise-ass, nose-thumbing attitude that made me laugh and endeared him to me so much? Or Edoardo’s restrained women with barely a flicker of expression on their faces (except the final photo) that i felt i could see but never touch (metaphorically touch, not physically touch).
Ok…
John G
I checked out that work. That’s a toughie for me. I have seen amateur work before that put a lump in my throat this same way. Very hard for me and no simple statements. Skates very close to the edge of ok for me. What i used to think..was that this type of work was fine before the internet came along and the most that could be expected was that it would be printed in a book or mounted on a gallery’s walls. But now with the internet and anyone able to grab a photo and exploit it, that’s where i have a problem. My maternal instincts are to protect children from any threat of exploitation whatsoever. My entire being rises up in protest at the idea that some schmuck will lift these photos off Ms. Lange’s site and spread them all over like dog poop under his shoe. And the sorrow is that Ms. Lange’s work is beautiful, extraordinary. So what does one do, protect the children and gag the artist? It’s a difficult place for me to be..as a mother and an artist..it’s hard, John to just answer this question 1-2-3.
Thanks for taking my mind off my hard drive :)
g’night finally
k/
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
Mark Twain quotes (American Humorist, Writer and Lecturer. 1835-1910)
PANOS, for a moment I thought that you have more BURNED brain cells than I …BUT when I look closer …your rounded big breads…I wanted to sing …Hello Dolly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmfeKUNDDYs&feature=related
ANDREAC …VIVEK is waiting for you !!!
KATIE, talk to your hard drive …eat some grilled chicken …trust your techie !!!
LOVE from my heart …
BURNIANS , we are all naked …!!! ViVA
John,
I think its great work. Thanks for showing it to me. The dumb thing is I was on a site where this woman’s work was being featured but I missed it because the image they showed was the plate of flies (or whatever it is and my curiosity wasn’t sufficiently aroused. Ha! Anyway, i like that site. Its got lots of good stuff. And I like this. The kids stuff is very similar to Sally Mann’s. I’ll leave the paedophile issue alone for now. I’m quite tired of that one. But the adults I like a lot. In a fascinated sort of way ( – meaning I like it but I wouldn’t like it on my walls.)
Panos,
I appreciate your posts. Before you posted, I was tempted to try to goad all the guys into trying it, to make a point. But now it would sound silly. But don’t let me stop anyone who wants to try. You’re a star Panos.
Kathleen
good luck with the tech saga. I just going along hoping that I won’t lose or have stolen my laptop in India .
David B I uploaded my God to show you now. I think he’s beautiful even with all his missing limbs. It might be a buddha but I am trying to find out.
Civi,
Speaking of Fabulous Faces… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33nTnawq6jk
Andrea; “hoping that I won’t lose or have stolen my laptop in India”
Why not bring along a small portable hard drive to back up to? I’ve got a small Seagate (about 40gb I think?) that is about the same size as a pack of ciggies but only about 5mm thick. If your laptop craps out or is stolen at least you have a back up.
Maybe at a pinch you could always download pics on an internet cafe comp directly to your portable? I haven’t had to try that but sounds feasible?
Ross,
I’m taking a western digital 320Gb portable HD. I only have to remember to keep them separated as often as possible so that if one thing gets stolen, I not lose the other. It’s not a big object either.
I’m tired and its raining. The wet season has just arrived! I hope you liked Minnie the Moocher. She was a red-hot hoo-oochie coocher…
John, I have no trouble with Salley Mann, Jock Sturges, etc. In fact, I love Jock Sturges work, as controversial as it is. I do have a problem with objectifying women in photography. And I think a lot of nudity is gratuitous, like the nudity in the current essay. As has been noted, one photo would have been plenty of the ex-girlfriend. And the boob shot of the woman he says was not of his girlfriend is certainly gratuitous.
Nudity is very tempting to photographers because it gets them instant attention. Look at the top photos on photo.net. Mostly nudes, followed closely by HDR crap…but that’s another story.
My biggest problem with the current essay, though, is that the artist’s statement is just pure BS. The guy and his ex-girlfriend seem to just be creating a lie to get attention.
See Jim if the viewer makes up the story and disregards what the photographer prattles on about, all is sweet
I prefer fiction to be labeled fiction.
………agree but what do we do with our politicians?
I agree the artist’s statement was difficult to digest and best forgotten when turning to the photos, which I rather liked as a whole greater than its parts. Forgive and forget the statement; look at the photos. Better, maybe?
“Forgive and forget the statement; look at the photos. Better, maybe?”
certainly..
eat the food and not the menu.
‘………agree but what do we do with our politicians?’
stew them with seasonal veg.
spent all afternoon in hospital with tor capa yesterday and he’s over the worst of the influenza.. bacon flu.. whatever.
biggest surprise = no surprise..
don’t believe the media hype.. ‘s-not so bad.
achoooee.
*coughs*
d
Jim, you are such an idiot that is hard to believe. Probably, since your photography is such a crap, you live in jealousy and discomfort and that’s why you spend your time here attemting to demolish others photographers work. I tried to share something with you here on burn but you and people like you transformed my work in a bunch of lies. I can accept you don’t like the pics, that you think I’m pathetic, that the nude pics are gratuitous but not that I’m a liar. Thanks, really, since you transformed my experience here on Burn in one of the worst. That’s a shame we are so far away, otherway I’ll try to find you and kick you in the face so badly to stop your dirt mouth for a long time. People like you ruin nice places like Burn.
Wow. Physical, real world threats. Nice guy. I would suggest you refrain from that in the future. It can get you into real world trouble.
Uh god. I’ trembling. As for me, that’s the same for you. If I discomfort you so badly you are free to write me a mail too or even to call me if you want, so to free your hate even more deeply.
David B
Wow, swine flu! I am so sorry your son is sick again. It´s so hard when the kids are sick. Nobody gets any sleep. Midnight runs to the ER. Medicine at two in the morning..glad he’s getting better and you can all breathe a collective and decongested sigh of relief.
Edoardo and Jim
basta, ya! Enough bickering and ugliness. This magazine is read worldwide and this is how you repay DAH for providing this forum for free expression? Do you both want these posts popping up on google whenever someone searches your name? sheesh. Groan men (pun intended).
Let´s all go back to talking up or down the relative inocuousness of gratuitous boobs.
Best to you BOTH!
Kathleen
don’t believe the media hype.. ’s-not so bad.
i totally agree…
kid is strong…good news
Ok, this personal attack seen here is just sad. I haven’t read all of the dialgue recently, but it shouldn’t be possible to say things like these.
Actually I was at a splendid afrobeat concert, with Tony Allen, yesterday and had one of the best experiences this year, but just as I got out on the streets there were several people running around beating each other up very badly, they even ran around in the middle of the streets where some cars had to slow down just because of them. I saw a man kick another while he was lying down. The image is still there, in my mind. And that was the exact image I got when I read these words from Eduardo: “otherway I’ll try to find you and kick you in the face so badly to stop your dirt mouth for a long time”
Why is it so much easier to say such things through the internet? Why should it be more tolerated?
Sad.
Jim & Edoardo…
lets move on.. but again who am i to moderate things..?
sorry i dont mean to act like a cop…
opinions…we all got one… blah, blah…
Panos
you´ve had your disagreements here but you know how to come back and apologize and make peace..
´nuff said..
k-
2120? I’m gone for a week and now it’s 2120? Do I want to read all of this? Is there anything new and exciting here or is it all just the same old same old?
Akaky, the only must see is Panos’ nude self portrait. Otherwise, pretty much the same.
JOHN GLADDY
thanks for turning me on to M’s work….
LOVE IT!!!
so raw
and
real
and
mysterious…..
and oh so appropriate……
thank you….
x0x
David B — be glad the child is strong. A great friend of mine’s nephew, a 9-month old born with heart problems, which has affected his immune system post-surgeries believes the H1N1 hype. At least the doctors do. Turning his little organs into pus, they say.
Andrea, or anyone, regarding laptops, hard drives, and traveling: I’ve found Wolverine drives to be very handy. They come with hi speed compact flash readers so you don’t have to lug the laptop around on a shoot if you need to free up your memory cards. Copy from the Wolverine to the laptop when it’s convenient and you’ve got two copies of all the photos.
http://secure.serverlab.net/shop/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T00107&Category_Code=FlashPac
Jim, I think it was wise to switch out the photo of that squirrel on your site. It seems to have had its intended effect.
DAVID B
no one can prepare you for the feelings you must be experiencing…..
take care of yourself too,
and the little guy will follow……
xo
ps
BuRNIANS
any word on the opening last night?!?
AKAKY,
except KATIE who has problem with her hard drive …LOVE
PANOS who is going ballistic with his self-portrait (lovely behinds)
everything else is going like a Swiss clock…tick tock
OUR PATRICIA is working on her book
ROSSY has his youth project
ANDREAC is going India
IMANTS is chasing ants, the futuristic ones
REIMAR is smiling again…and when REIMAR smiles …the whole room shines
WENDY the sunshine poet is a filmmaker now …
BOBBY is working on his 13000 words essay
POMARA reminded me to put some money in the BURNing bucket
HERVE …hmmm…is drinking coffee with AUDREY in Paris
HOOKSTRAPPED …welcome
JIMMY wants to drink cold beer with EDOARDO
EDOARDO is trying to figure out why…
DAVIDB and TORCAPA are evolving …and emerging (strong blood, true BURNIAN)
HAIK saved my ash…tech wise
JOHNY G hasn’t returned from the poker session…doesn’t look good
JOHNY VINK is out of range
MyGRACIE…I miss her sooo much
and our Spacecowboy…oime,I miss so many BURNIANS :(((
MR.SIDNEY is working on a book
ANTON went to Japan …considering a new tattoo
MR.DAH drives a pick up truck with expired tags …kikiki
I am out of pc-ink …see, I can go on and on and on and on and on…
oh our rabbit was on labor …now we have 5 baby rabbits …maybe four …
Goodnight for now…I am watching closely …I might be back with the same old news from another 169
BURNIANS…in my notebook …I am not drinking tonight…
LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Panos — nice photo, malaka. Wonder how may times its been downloaded. :)
jared…:)
one thing i know fo sho…
i lost that position as a pre school teacher…plus
and all those secret plans for governor in california …:((
ahhh my whole career went down the drain within seconds…
i sacrificed my life for photography’s sake..
im a martyr
… i was young…pretty…naive…
that photographer told me i had the perfect body to became a model…
next thing i know my naked photo was downloaded 1.000.000 times..
ahhh.ALL..plz learn from my lesson..
C’mon ladies of burn — fess up. How many dragged that photo from Picasa right to their desktop and objectified poor Panos the martyr in the process?
jared ..
do u think it was only the ladies????
that dreamy naked body ?
should bring the chills to both sexes..( i hope )
;)
again…
i might have lost my pre-school teaching career…
but who cares… a new aspiring modelling career just begun…
one door closes another one opens they say…
i proved it…
see u in the next issue of Vogue..
Panos maybe you could get work in the movies being an ass double.
yup..
from McDonalds… new commercial..
Big Mac…Double pleasure…:)
Work being condemned, misinterpreted, reinterpreted, reinvented, elevated , lambasted, partly truth partly fiction, reorganised etc is pretty much the norm in the art circles. Once the work goes out into the public domain most visual artist accept that they have limited control on how it will be viewed. Maybe it is time for documentary/narrative style of photographers to accept that that may happen to their work as they move into the realm of essay type of presentations. There is many a time that a exhibition gets a scathing critique from both the press and the public ……. chucking a bit of a wobbly will not alter the situation. Moving pictures are always prone to all sorts of attacks…..get over it guys
One’s accompanying text can make or break ………
therefore…
rip it up…kikiki :)))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN6eWf4XpiE&feature=related
Bill Haley
LOVE ya …
Imants; Regarding the teacher who posed topless for the mag. They were talking about her on the news this morning, and it’s the teachers union who want her sacked. Not the parents, board of trustees or Education Ministry! Sandal and knee high sock wearing teachers, eh? The cutting edge of PC! :-)
if you make mirrors you shouldnt really worry if the people using them dont really like what they see reflected.
here-here john.
Wow Ross it would be the reverse here
Imants
does your name mean wise-man in some long-forgotten Aboriginal dialect? Great Post!
Civilian
hahah, loved the list! My tech problems are not over…i won{t see my external drive for a good 3-4 days so i guess i´m just gonna hafta shoot instead. I am studying a manual an inch thick that´s telling me all the things i never wanted to know about a Nikon SB800 flash unit.
Congratulations, you´re a bunny daddy. i bet those little babies are sooooooooooo cute! Are you going to give them names?
got to hop on out of here..
k-
Imants
referring to your post at 3:30 Burn time.
k-
¨Much of the enduring fascination of photography depends on the extent to which its function and its aesthetic remain undefined, and dependent, in spite of everything that has already been said, on competing arguments and apprehensions.
What other medium, after all, is of equal interest to criminologists, mall rats, grandparents, and aesthetes? And this multiplicity of audiences is in turn woven into photography’s power.¨
(Jed Perl Art Critic, The New Republic)
k-
The folks running the asylum are too busy to keep an eye on the inmates.
If anyone thinks they have a rough time on Burn at the hands of their audience they should read up on what happened to Bill Henson when his last show was about to open. He almost ended up in jail as being a peodophile. The show never even got to open. The police came in and confiscated works and the story was in the news for weeks. Regardless of his resume being a mile long and having his works owned by collectors and art museums all over the world. I wouldn’t want to see anyone go through that again, especially when falsely accused but there are ways to handle negative reactions to your work. Probably rule #1 would be remain cool.
Jim,
Let me clarify: asylum worker is DAH and inmates is Imants & Co ?
And Texas,USA blames these [un]fortunate circumstances on Panos’ double-cheek career-kicking behavior?
Bzzzzzzt
Greetings Burnians. It’s been a while. Hope all is well.
As you all probably know David was in DC last night for his show for “Fotoweek DC”. Chris Bickford, A.J. Wilhelm and Michael Young were also featured and various Burnians had photographs hanging up in the space, too! It was a killer night with bonfires, booze, and boys on skateboards! No kidding. The space was packed for most of the evening, inside and out. Great show. A clear success.
Here’s a little web page of the festivities.
http://www.michaelkircher.com/fotoweek_dc_2009.htm
Cheers.
Michael,
Muchas Gracias for letting us look through the keyhole.
Nice hat David.
Happy Photo Week.
Paul
Am I the first to notice this? I guess you must all be sleeping at the moment in the US. Just started my Monday morning here in China by finding Patricia on the New York Times Lens Blog!
Bravo Patricia!
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/showcase-74/
Hey that’s great. congratulations Patricia!
Patricia
What a surprise at the beginning of the day!!
Congratulations and best wishes my dear!
You are the best!
You make my day!
:)
Patricia!!!! That’s bloody amazing!!!! Good for you. Any news on your book at all?
Cheers
go patricia
go patricia
go patricia…
:))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thats fantastic news patricia.
Thank you, dear Burnians. As you might imagine, this shocks me more than anyone. I’d probably better try to get some sleep, but before I log off here’s a link to the blog entry I just wrote about this unbelievable occurrence:
http://patricialaydorsey.blogspot.com/2009/11/ny-times-lens-blog.html
As far as I’m concerned, this was a group effort. Yes, our very own DAH mentored me so wonderfully well, but many of you folks have been at my side from the start of this project. Couldn’t have done it without you…
much love & gratitude
Patricia
well found sean..
GO PATRICIA>>>>> kept that a bit quiet, eh?
:o)
michael kircher
November 8, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Greetings Burnians. It’s been a while. Hope all is well.
As you all probably know David was in DC last night for his show for “Fotoweek DC”. Chris Bickford, A.J. Wilhelm and Michael Young were also featured and various Burnians had photographs hanging up in the space, too! It was a killer night with bonfires, booze, and boys on skateboards! No kidding. The space was packed for most of the evening, inside and out. Great show. A clear success.
Here’s a little web page of the festivities.
http://www.michaelkircher.com/fotoweek_dc_2009.htm
Cheers.
MICHAEL…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
for posting the above…
now the pphoto of DAH on his iPhone….
WRITING THE NAMES ON THE WALL ( LITERALLY-ON THE WALL……….. now thats garage, real garage music )
PRICELESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
THANKU
HUGE HUG..
to our Burn reporter mr. Michael Kircher
The Seeds – Pushin’ Too Hard
The Seeds – Can’t Seem To Make You Mine
Bettie Page dances to the Seeds
hot
hot
hot
hot
superhot
Fun In The Sun With Bettie Page!
the vibrators- i need a slave-bettie page
and our LATE LATE NIGHT SHOW proceeds….
Queen of Pain by The Cramps
Bettie Page-The Cramps
The Cramps-Bettie Page tribute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar61VX_dSZk&feature=related
ok….one more dedicated to one of those strong women that wrote history..
changed the world… any way u see it… she was as influential as
Albert Einstein or Madam Curie…
big hug
The Cramps Live @ N.Y. Mudd Club 1981 Human Fly
Yahoo Patricia…….. fab news, get that book out there.
Panos,
Betty Page… As a young naive Brit (15 years ago) I bought a Betty Page T shirt in new Orleans when I was on a shoot for chevvy. Wow what a reation when I wore it (mostly from women) completely diverse, love or hate, I have to say the majority was love.
Jim,
If I were a citizen in the area that your paper is circulated I would be very worried that I was getting a blinkered jaded view of the world. Does your paper have a political agenda?
Cheers
Ian
Congrats, Patricia for the NYT accolade, I hope it gets you closer to clinch the book deal.
Since the media and politicos are all going bunkers over the Berlin Wall demise anniversary here in Europe (most likely to compensate not having one freakin’ clue 20 years ago), I find this day appropriate to renew my pledge that even though I may not post a damned lot, let it be heard that now just as before, in the defense of liberties and pursuit of photographic passion:
“ICH BIN EIN BURNLINER!”
and im a let u go
with a low key… that once changed my world..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRiyN_Zn5L8&feature=fvst
big hug y’all from the city of rain…
one more Late Late Night Show just expired…
until manana
SHALOM EVERYBODY
Patricia! New York Times!
Congratulations: well-deserved.
Mike.
Patricia,
Good on You !
Enjoy.
I also thought your blog post was fantastic.
Patricia,
well done! Thumbs up!
Burnians,
Greetings from Berlin!
Reimar
Patricia,
fabulous! Congrats!! :-)))
Michael,
Thanks for the link to the show! Totally cool!
…..
What a nice Monday morning … äh … afternoon.
our PATRICIA ,
You are a true BURNIAN spirit… WE LOVE YOU .
I have to admit …I use your strength as a role model…
It goes like this…”well, somewhere in America, in the Detroit area..I have a friend …her name is PATRICIA and when she found out …she is an artist …a Photographer…what a light, what a power…”
VIVA Our PATRICIA…
“Spirit has fifty times the strength and staying-power of brawn and muscle”
Mark Twain
Patricia, Congratulations on the New York Times article. It could not have happened to a more kind hearted and deserving photographer.
Kurt
KATIE,
I tried very hard to find nice words to express my feelings for OURPATRICIA …
BUT at least I tried …
I promise as long as I will be around …I will never stop saying this…
Write a book MRS.FONSECA…with all my LOVE …from my new rabbit family
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
PANOS,
yeap,mate …the music…aha…red water and olives next to the pastitsio.
Bettie ,Bettie …yeap… kikiki…I am sending silents !!!
REIMAR,
no more walls …We are coming over…:)))
MICHAELK,
we missed you mate…and as another BURNIAN said before me…
THANK YOU for the link …your photo coverage rocks
LOVE
Kalimera my friends!
Congrats to Patricia Lay-Dorsey! Very well deserving.
Peace.
Morning, dark coffee, editing.
Ugh!
Congratulations Patricia!!
Well deserved!!
Patricia,
CONGRATULATIONS!!! This is fantastic!
Great having met you at David’s loft on this historical oct 9th,
keep on rocking,
Dominik.
CONGRATULATIONS PATRICIA! :))))))))))000
as we’ve talked about alot in the last 2 years, good things come to those who care and give….I could not be more happy and more proud….
and it’s wonderful wonderful that James has showcased you and your book (I’m calling it a book, for i believe in naming something what it should be! :))) )….
having spoken with james, i second what you have written, he’s a caring person with a large and generous spirit….
be love and congrats from both marina and me…
hugs
bob
Wonderful woman, Patricia!
Congratulations and I love your passion and bravery.
Love and Hugs,
Kyunghee.
Dear michael,
Thank you for your pictures of FotoWeek DC 2009.
Congratulations! Chris Bicford, Michael Loyd Young, A.J. Wihelm and Burnians!
David, I like your hat!
Thank you so much.
Patricia
Seeing you at NYT was..well, i’m speechless…congratulations is the most is can sputter right now..so well deserved! I’m so proud of you :))) I know your slide show will inspire soooooooo many!
HUGZ
Kathleen
PATRICIA
YOU are an inspiration…
in so many ways…
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!
you deserve this….
xox
***
Wow Patricia! NYTs lens blog amazing and congratulations, well deserved. That first photograph with you looking in the mirror with the detached body in the background is superb, I had never seen that one before and if I might add you look beautiful in the photograph.
burn = amazing opportunities that foster the growth of photographers and connect them with not only a community but with their own vision
thank you DAH for this day that celebrates Patricia, Chris, Michael, A.J. and really all of us…
Patricia, love James’ words about you!
Chris, etc. the space looks gorgeous! Wish I could have seen it with my own eyes.
DAH just keeps on keepin’ on!
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
I am drinking to all of you BURNIANS …I love to see so many ladies and
P.S MR.HARVEY I tried the same hat…but didn’t work…hmmm…
it might be your aura or something :))) NNTR
Congrats Patricia!
I couldn’t think of someone who deserves this more. You’re always patient, friendly and thankful here on burn. Now that I look at the images with the lens blog edit I appreciate them more then before. Thank you for showing us a different perspective on things!
MIKE R,
where have you been??? I missed the stories …you know the old days !!!
THODORIS,
it’s raining in Greece…we have el nino :(
I am running like BOBBY…the rabbits need food…
Keep on BURNING …i am gonna keep burbing …I need my AFRICAN friends …
Patricia!! This is great news! congratulations!
As CIVI says, “WHAT NOT TO LOVE!!!” Well, I love you all. Your support and generous-hearted celebration of my work being featured on Lens is beautiful. But, just in case my head might have gotten too big to get through my sweater, I’ve just received some less-than-great news from the book editor who has had my Blurb book on her desk for a month. Her answer is no. So, back to the drawing boards. Any suggestions for good photo book publishers would be much appreciated. Don’t worry, I’m not giving up. “Falling Into Place” will find its way into print, I promise. They don’t call me BULLDOG for nothing ;=)
xxooo
Patricia
Patricia
Wow, things just keep falling into place. Congratulations!
Patricia! Just saw the essay on the Lens Blog! Brilliant, I love it!
Congradulations and keep it up, it really is an amazing portrait of yourself!
xo
-Vasilios
Patricia….
1st, DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED!!!!!….can i tell you how many times i’ve been rejected in my life for publishing poems, essays, photographs, exhibitions, grants, etc etc….even though i’ve been incredibly fortunate to publish (written things and photos), nothing happens overnight and “falling’ WILL find the right publisher and i am sure with the Lens coverage, your visibility will only increase…it’s a strong book, strong work….there are so many publishers, what you have to do is find a publisher that see’s their mandate in sync with your vision…marina and i just found out a book that will be published next year containing our pics will be published and it took more than 2 years for that do happen, and the project is for a great photogapher…it just takes time, but you will be a published author, rest assured! :)))
in the process now of sniffing around for publishers, i can tell you it’s a long road, BUT…it will happen…i’ll send you a list of potential publishers as well, give me a couple days to get caught up….dont give up, it’s a beautiful story, photographed beautifully, and there will be someone who will publish it…
have you approached powerHouse??…only recause their catelog is sooooooooooo eclectic, that it might seem like a good fit??…
hang tough…i’ll write more after wednesday..
hugs
bob
Patricia…
Sorry to hear that, about Aperture.
Don’t worry though…
Your work WILL find its way…
As for ideas, you should read this (if you haven’t already)
http://blog.livebooks.com/2009/03/robert-glenn-ketchum-books-that-make-a-difference-shouldnt-have-to-make-money
You could probably find support—for both the production and the distribution of your book—from foundations, institutions and groups that deal with any number of social issues… having backing from an organization might improve considerably your standing while dealing with the next publisher.
Civi…
About the no-stop raining…
Remember…
Every cloud has a silver lining (Ουδέν κακόν αμιγές καλού)…
At least you won’t have a problem with water…
Here in Cyprus it’s been almost 2 years now that we have running water every other day…
Pat,
I am so happy for you! This publication has got to help you find an editor and regardless, this is just a great achievement. You can be very proud. You are an inspiration for us all, not only because of your artistic talent but simply because of who you are, your energy, your passion and drive… I was not aware of you being called a BULLDOG…. this is not excatly how I picture you as you are so sweet but I have seen with my own eyes that nothing can get in the way of dear Pat!!!!
by the way, now that you are a celibrity, can we still skype sometimes :):):):)??
Take care and congrats again!!!!
Eric
My Skype is on and at the ready to receive visits from whomever might like to say Hi…
my Skype name is patricialaydorsey
OUR PATRICIA,
…I forgot to tell you …
FIRST you have to fail…
every BIG soul in the Universe had to fall in the dark before to rise into place
I will see you pretty soon “Rising into Place”…
I don’t know about the “bulldog” BUT for me you are closer to White Eagle …
P.S THODORIS…I will reconsider :)))
VIVA,VIVA,VIVA…BURNIANS do as PATRICIA …Never give Up …
Patricia, commiserations on your first rejection note. But as Civi and Bob have said, rejection is all part of the process.
I wonder if you’ve looked around to have your work put on as solo exhibition and for which you should apply for funding for printing, framing and to get a good catalogue made up. A lot of good work never gets to proper hard-back coffee-table level but a decent full colour glossy catalogue is not to be sneezed at, in my opinion. I would make sure you approach the big art museums as well as some select smaller galleries. I think, because of the nature of the material, it’s worth a try.
“Bulldog” Patricia :))
Congratulations on being featured on Lens. A giant step for you.
The rest will come too. Enjoy the journey!
Thanks everyone for joining me in today’s celebration and in its disapointment. To be honest I’m just not too concerned about the news from Aperture. Somehow I feel confident that this book will be published, it’s just a matter of when and by whom. As soon as DAH and I can connect we’ll come up with a new plan. For now I’m happy that these images being seen on Lens. I’d guess way more people see that than will ever see my book. Hopefully it is opening folks’ eyes and hearts to different ways of being in the woorld. Being disabled is a bother, yes, but also a great teacher. At least it has been for me.
Patricia
PATRICIA….
i agree with everyone above…do not be discouraged…my number of rejections far outweighs the number of so called successes…and some “no’s” have later turned into “yes”…Falling Into Place will fall into place…as you well know, Aperture was my first thought, but not my last…and frankly, knowing these publishers as i do , i would not even give up entirely on Aperture…i will stay on it until it gets into the right hands and the right moment and for the right reasons…
we are also looking seriously into a Burn imprint with perhaps partnerships with existing publishers…..
the primary thing any publisher has to offer is really only one thing: distribution….
i think we might just have that problem solved…anyway , i will communicate with you by private mail…i saw you just tried to call me on Skype, but i am running out now… can surely talk to you tomorrow or wednesday…
be of good cheer… congratulations with Lens…they are our friends for sure….more collaborations to come…
cheers, hugs, love, david
Patricia
wow, what a bi-polar day for you, huh? So many have given you such helpful tips, anything i could say would be redundant so i´ll just wrap you in a big hug and whisper into your ear..¨Don´t ever give up, you´ll get there yet. You´ll see¨…
bestest
Kathleen
Oh, come on Pete, you think your comment was any more useful then mine? Another concerned photographer, another essay, another potential book. How do we discuss this kind of work? If it is the people the photographer is truly concerned with, then the photography should be transparent and there is nothing to talk about except the people themselves, not the photographer. If we talk about the “quality” or “beauty” or “success” of his photos, when they are of tragedy and displaced people, then shame on us.
Jim,
How do we discuss this kind of work? You don’t, Jim. You really don’t have to “discuss” if it is not your cup of tea. There is no obligation. It is not mandatory. Nor anyone promised to keep you happy.
Honesty is one thing, being tactless is something else, stirring conversation with some controversy is completely different and sometimes encouraged.
but what drives your need to hurt people?
Haik, do you think this photographer gives a flip what I say? She shoots misery for a living. You think she’ll be hurt by my words?
Haik is asking WHY?, Jim..
Gonna leave another question unanswered?
Jared, I have no need to hurt people. So how do I answer that question?
I give a flip and it aint about the essay, the author, “Dirty Money for Dummies”, etc. but your style.
That was in the core of my list of questions to you.
Haik, your questions are in the form of, “Are you still beating your wife.” Why should I respond to them?
Why do you post the same thing under every reportage?
If you weren’t so predictable I could make a ton of cash betting what you would say, but everyone knows, not just me.
So, basically, we’re saying save it — or at least save it for later in the thread, so your venom isn’t the first thing people see when they click on an essay — you’re beating a dead horse. Comprende?
Actually, Jared, my early post would be buried in the onslaught of creative and helpful posts if everyone that followed didn’t jump on me and my post. It’s you who make it an issue.
Why do you feel the need to defend every essay from my pitiful opinions?
The responses to Jim were predictable until Pete came up with this gem………. “I wanted to take some time and think about it, looking again later before commenting, but Jim forced me to respond.”
My form of question is significantly polite than your form of statement.
Recommend a Q&A standard and I will comply if that is the only obstacle.
Haik, I’m uninterested in a debate about me. Jim Powers isn’t the topic of this forum.
You seem to want to make it the topic, though.
No, but Jim Powers is a parttaker of this forum and I demand clarity.
You demand? ROTFLMAO
OMG, JP is LHAO while ROTF
That is the attitude i prefer :)
l8r
Sorry Jim but you really do David a disservice in posting most of what you do.
I’m now convinced you intentionally try to drive the level down in an attempt to
undermine DAH’s efforts and won’t relent until the site fails so you can
say, “See I told told you this wouldn’t work”.
On the positive, congratulations to Patricia.
Well-deserved and easily the ‘feel good’ photographer story of the year.
Nice to see one of the good ‘guys’ rewarded for a sincere effort and great outlook.
hmm.. on the front page essay.. and in the website linked.. competition.. award.. award.. competition.. book.. competition.. award..
and for me the photography isn’t so strong..
yet where is the press .. the tearsheets which take the work into the homes of non-photographers?
as someone said – the resume is more impressive than the work.. and it seems the resume is primary in motivation.
David, that touches on the point I usually make about humanitarian photography.
I don’t really see what people are missing about this essay though. I understand what people are saying about caring about these people in the pictures, but I don’t get it because these pictures don’t look that different from many other photojournalist stories I’ve seen, except that these are not showing pain. Is there something wrong with not showing pain? I think its great that the people here are carrying on with life as best they can. I can’t see the emotional thing missing that people refer to. There’s quite a few pictures I like. The kids sitting around, the kids in the park, the women in the tent. It really is like she’s captured the story about all these people being on a camping holiday.
That said, its not very often that one sees anything truly unique in photojournalism with regards to any work we’ve seen here. Or have i missed it? Even Michael Mullady’s work which seemed to me very good is not in the least original in terms of style, technique or point of view. It was strong but totally conforming to all the photojournalist conventions I’ve become familiar with over the last months. The best photojournalist essay I’ve seen was by – sorry I can’t remember his name – the man who was photographing in one of the eastern European countries – again I can’t remember which one it was (how embarassing and its not showing on this page) – but the pictures were interesting and busy with detail, but original? not to me. Perhaps what is original about this man’s pictures, is so subtle that its hard for me to identify it. There is a photojournalist style and it seems hard for photographers to break out of that and find a unique and recognisable perspective. Alex Webb perhaps for me is the only photojournalist I’ve seen here who’s work is uniquely his own and yet I bet he’s been copied widely. His style doesn’t look difficult to copy.
(note that in this commentary i am not referring to photographers like Rebecca Norris Webb, or others who’ve shown work that would considered more art than photojournalism.)
Goodmorning BURNIANS ,
as I was cleaning the rabbits today …I believe that I heard the mama rabbit saying this:
““Tolerate, change, or be grateful.”…
hmmm…I better take it easy with the beans tonight…
P.S LOVE TO ALL… listen to mama rabbit …you never know
oups…the rain …LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
“It really is like she’s captured the story about all these people being on a camping holiday. “:
that’s kind of how i feel about this work andrea.. just hanging out with people.. snap, snap.. bang it off to a competition..
so i looked at other work on the website.. specifically the tibetan work and was also a bit disappointed – hanging out.
in fact all of the stories on the website are heavily established subjects.. haiti.. tibet.. compton.. without anything new being bought to the table.
my comment on competitions might need some explanation – i think competition winning images are very rarely anything extraordinary, by virtue of being chosen by a panel, and therefore having to accommodate a wide appeal..
there are exceptions.. i think the superb late-modernist essay which won the emerging snappers grant was one such exception..
however, i think PJ competition winning images let me down more than raise me up – especially when there is a lack of context for the photographers work.. where it is shown.. who it serves, apart from the photographers own satisfaction / confidence boost..
might be wrong of course – but i don’t see where the clients are for this work.. where the funds come from to shoot the work..
on a snappers website the order i tend to click goes
1 – bio
2 – clippings / tearsheets
3 – work…
the reason for this order is probably because i am much more interested in where work is placed as a point of the photographers motivation. there is a whole new tear of evolution once work is ‘out there’ which is not satisfied by simply putting our work on our website or entering competitions.. the point at which our work impacts on the public is the final stage of any shoot – when we loose control of the photography and others perceptions take over..
it just feels a bit flat.. hollow.. when the ‘pay off’ is just another competition credit..
blah blah.. waffle waffle.. early morning..
d
civi – there must be an inverse relationship between the weather in greece and norway..
bergens coming up sun again..
:o)
I’m really grateful for Burn. It’s helping me a lot to catch up with the photography scene and learn a bit more about photojournalism which was a big hole in my post-grad education except for a few theoretical points. But the proof of my pie will be in India. If I come back with what everyone thinks of as only “travel” shots, then I’ll have to zip up. Or go and do a grad-dip on journalism so i know how to hustle in that world. I learnt something from Patricia’s blog today. Actually a few things.
Still on the subject of Patricia, I enjoy looking at Patricia’s ongoing portrait project but I notice that it’s getting smaller and I miss some pictures. It’s always nice to see the new ones but I wish it wasn’t only a 33 shot collection. I feel some good ones have been pruned out.
Correction: not “post-grad” education but “tertiary” education
‘“It really is like she’s captured the story about all these people being on a camping holiday. “:
that’s kind of how i feel about this work andrea.. just hanging out with people.. snap, snap.. bang it off to a competition..’
But David, that’s not a problem for me. ok, i haven’t read your whole post yet…
Bugger! can I delete that last post. That’s not what i meant. I was too quick. DELETE DELETE DELETE.
patricia – email is playing up again and i am unable to reply – bouncing back..
will catch you on skype later i hope :o)
andrea – on reflection i was being a little tough on the style of photography.. i just like seeing this kind of work in print.. out there..
an opinion with india..
it will be overwhelming if it is your first visit.. enjoy it and look for stories which interest you personally.. perhaps resist the urge to ‘do’ india in favor of finding a small corner you are passionate about.. and read as much as you can.. history, the poems of tagor or sanskrit.. whatever it is it will inform your snappery..
PLEASE EXCUSE ALL MY MESS JUST NOW.
David,
I believe that for humanitarian work and war photography and environmental work, or anything with an axe to grind surely where the work is shown is, as you say, a huge part of the work. I am in agreement with you on that point. And feel cynical about such photographers who direct all their work to other outlets. But if they are seriously selling their work as well, through news outlets then surely that is ok. So i hear you about tearsheets. I think to get newsworthy stories you have to have connections. How does one get such connections without working as staff.
Nevertheless, I don’t find a problem with hanging out with people, though I understand what you are saying about showing us something new. In this work, surely we are seeing something new in a newsworthy sort of way. That’s how it is for me. On the other hand the shekawati pictures are more like how you describe the Tibet work. I haven’t been to Tibet so I can’t really comment on that. I guess you could say that with the Shekawati pictures she’s made it into “humanitarian” work by putting that title on it. It could easily be any other title. So you could criticise it for that. But I don’t feel such criticism is applicable to the pictures in Italy since they are from a discrete event. In Shekawati, it’s just life.
I have to get my head around this matter because in India, as i was saying to Cathy Scholl this morning by email, I cannot hang around anywhere long enough to go in-depth and find a remarkable newsworthy story. I will have to make a story from the things I find along my route. I have some ideas, but they will be thematic rather than newsworthy unless I am lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time – which I never am. I did think I could go and visit some local newspapers along the way and hopefully get to tag along with a local journalist if they speak English and have the time. Obviously not a big metropolitan newspaper but some little local newspaper joint. I have been really tempted to contact one famous Indian journalist and tell him about my proposed trip through the backblocks with hope of getting some contacts or a few pointers towards stories that i know interest him. Only without any journalistic experience, I think he’d consider me a nuisance. It’s just that he is a bit of a hero of mine after I read his book about India. (note that I am going to the areas of India where his book was based).So I won’t contact him but I wish I could meet the sorts of people he wrote about because I know their stories are largely still unresolved and these are exactly the sorts of people I pass by on the road as I go along, only without a common language, I don’t know their personal stories. I believe he achieved something by his stories but nothing changes that quickly in india. At least not when its about the poorest of the poor. I need to learn Hindi. I wish I could have done it this year but other things got in the way.
And its not that I am interested in taking pictures of the poorest of the poor per se. It’s just that where I travel, the poorest of the poor are the people I meet often. Think of all those farmer suicides. I meet people like that. I meet people who don’t even have water to wash in. I can’t communicate much with them though so I tend not to hang around unless they invite me. A considerable step up from them, on my last trip two school girls accosted me on my way to the next town. They were on their way to school on their clackety old bikes. The were so clean, dressed in uniforms straight out of an English boarding school. Hair in two tidy plaits with blue ribbons. But the shoes of one of the girls were amazingly delapidated. These girls took me to their school and introduced me to the teachers where I was given tea and biscuits. One of the teachers took my bike for a spin in the yard. After a while I continued on my way. Didn’t take a single picture. This time I probably would take a picture. Anyway, that’s what my trip is like. I don’t know how I’m going to squeeze a newsworthy essay out of that sort of trip. I will read the papers but I can’t go zipping from one end of the country to the other to wherever the latest bomb goes off or some such thing.
Ok I’m probably waffling on too much.
David, this is my third trip to India and my second long cycling adventure through the country. Last time was a north-south axis, this one is east-west. I know what interests me. Thanks for your words, its the sort of thing I will do anyway I guess and what I suppose I am saying above. But I don’t want my pics to be irrelevant. That’s all.
I’ll post a pic in my link of some Indian schoolgirls. These ones have no shoes at all and their hair is in charming disarray. Indians have lovely feet. These girls followed me for about half an hour.
“How does one get such connections without working as staff. ”
by informing editors while planning a trip and talking to them throughout and afterwards..
“I will have to make a story from the things I find along my route. I have some ideas, but they will be thematic rather than newsworthy unless I am lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time”
that’s okay – there is still a great deal to do.. one obvious thing would be tourism, the waste it produces and the difficulties presented to the local community by it.. high market prices.. seasonal work.. challenges to traditional life.
hindi is a useful language in parts of the country, yet i believe there are more than 100 dialects spoken in the country and english really units the people .. language is not really the barrier.. it’s more about the idea..
there are cheshire homes for the disabled all over the place.. left overs from the raj permeate life all over.. there are lots of stories.. the trouble is settling upon one and focusing on it to the exclusion of others.. while a single story might have many strands it is extremely difficult to photography utterly different stories and do them all justice..
“the poorest of the poor are the people I meet often”..
yes.. they tend to tail tourists .. and of course as the harshest difference it is tempting to put a camera between them and us.. a wall of safety in a way..
it sounds like the focus for you is cycling and cycling holidays.. and so to produce a sincere piece which you can focus upon perhaps it needs to revolve around cycling as a holiday .. putting together a travel piece about cycling and trying to sell it.
photographing hardship is a great responsibility for many reasons – in part because bringing false hope to people who will never save enough money over a life time to afford the camera we carry is wrong… it takes focus all of it’s own and i don’t believe that is compatible with what you’re going to be doing.. yet there is lots which is compatible with what you’re doing, so start there. there are still plenty of ways to help.. ‘adopt’ a shoe shine kid on connought place and seek them out when you pass through the city.. buy them a new box or some materials..
i think unless there is substantial available time to properly dedicate to a subject, pulling a story together is very tough.. quickly formed ideas which are not given a respectful shooting time seem to fall shallow..
you’re doing something interesting – that has to be the story, no?
i think you’d get a level of success photographing the already established focus of your trip..
David I know you mean well but your post is a little patronising. I am already quite well informed about india and the issues you raise. I am not informed about being a photojournalist though, that’s what my last post was about. I am not on a holiday. I am not on a tourist trail. I am not even going to Delhi. I am not grumpy but feel a little embarassed by your assumptions. The poor people I was referring to are not the beggers you see on the streets of cities in rajasthan. Where I go there are very few beggers. Just very poor people. Migrant farm workers. Farmers. I am interested in rural india. I spend very little time in Indian cities. Someone else can do the story about tourism in India. I personally think tourism is good for Indians even though it comes with a price but so does all development. A lot of people make a decent living from tourism. Tourism is the least of India’s problems. I know in Goa, where I’ve never been, it brings social problems but as I said, I’ve not been to Goa and if i go this trip, for a few days, it’s only to meet an Indian friend.
I’d like to do a story about cycling in India but that’s only one thing I hope to achieve from this trip. I am going for at least four months.
I don’t plan to photograph hardship for hardship’s sake. If hardship is shown in my pictures its a side-effect of my real subject matter. But anyway, I’ve got to get there first. Leaving Saturday.
As our own backyards stay in neglect…..things are looking up………….
Sectors of Chinese/Indian/ SE Asian populations are becoming more and more affluent and locals are documenting their own countries in an intimate way that western photographers can only dream about. Their willingness to stay in their own backyards and not fiddle in the backyards of others has produced fantastic work. This is more so with the Chinese photographers from 2003 onwards who seem to be getting the greatest support.
Maybe these new photographers will travel to our suburbs and towns and document what we seem to be incapable of doing in our own backyards.
okay then – if struggling farmers is your subject matter you have it sorted.. the rest is just telling people, focusing on the farmers..
my main point is that it’s either photography which is the point or it is not.. and if it is the point then the time to start telling people what you are doing is now, and to show them a little of the context from your past trips to get them interested..
no intention to patronize, only to help – it’s just that your posts seem somewhat conflicting about the motivation for the trip..
I wonder why people have to seek out the furthest places on Earth to do a project. Andrea, you railed against portrayal of women in photography yet the whole idea you describe sounds to me like a cliche on struggle and poverty.
IMANTS
absolutely – press junkets to poverty will become obsolete – and quite rightly so in most cases..
our own BODO has carried out an extraordinary study of porters in his home town, calcutta – a story which foreign snappers would not even realize existed..
regarding the point on motivation for the trip – if there is a genuine desire and something which snappers have missed on telling others about then go for it.. a long term study.. a trip focused on the subject with the intention of distribution..
……..or you can leave your camera at home. I’ve done that a fair few times or never bothered to shoot a frame, enjoyable to say the least
the trouble with snapping our own backyards is that we don’t get exotic snaps of our consumption, and opposing shots atoning for that consumption..
or a suntan.
the fact is that the top tear of PJ’s that travel is a very small pool.. a small world.. with music.. with war photography.. with editorial in general.. and trips are planned in conjunction with publications and based around the subject / project.. anyone else is just playing.
there are ways to travel funded by tourist boards and the like, to cover positive subjects to bring in tourists..
one way or another – it’s an extremely time consuming and an utterly unrewarding, (financially), pursuit to try to work abroad on any story.. while there are countless interesting subjects going on at home..
it’s a real labour of love n passion to try to work abroad and to be interesting it has to be about a consistent and personal vision which can only be fulfilled by travelling.
..it’s a real labour of love n passion to try to work abroad and to be interesting it has to be about a consistent and personal vision which can only be fulfilled by traveling…
i mean to say a project or passion which requires travel..
whatever..
i’m off.. it’s my birthday and i have cake to eat.
It gets pretty incestuous. Photographers patting each other on the back with awards and grants for their great humanitarian efforts, while folks in the real world just keep suffering and dying. Sad, really.
Imants recently I asked about Indian photography. There was only one response. So where is all this great stuff you are talking about. I can’t find it. I am not saying they are not doing it. I am saying point me in the right direction. I’d like to see it.
Also I have thought on more than one occasion who nice it would be to see Indians over here giving us their perspective on our country. There’s a book I want to buy about some indians who cycled around the world in the 1920s. I am really interested to read about their point of view. I love the blogs that i’ve read by indian cyclists. Even those are written about trips within India. Indians have a rather nice perspective that comes from their religion i think, or if not their different sort of upbringing. I’d love to see what Indian photographers make of Australia.
The thing is I am going to india because I got an interest in going to india before I decided I wanted to photograph it. Just because I am interested in photographing India doesn’t mean I don’t want to photograph things here. But india is a more interesting place to me than home. I like going to places that are unfamiliar. I love the difference that is India. That’s why I go. Photography and travelling go hand in hand for many photographers. I am not going to stay home just because some people think its more moral.
Indians don’t stay home necessarily out of choice. All the indians I know who can afford to travel can’t wait to leave. Travelling is out of the question for the vast majority of Indians, and this probably includes a great number of photojournalists as well. I have friends who are doctors working in a private teaching hospital in Karnataka. When one of them won a fellowship to England for six months, she told me she couldn’t afford to do anything outside the hospital. If she can’t afford to do anything in England, how can anyone else.
Rafal
Yes there is a degree of conflict. I will have to deal with it when i get there. Staying home is not the answer.
If my pictures turn out to be cliched, feel free to let me know. But if you are a lone voice, I will consider your opinion just a case of being spiteful.
David,
about contacts, I did try that a while ago with some local publishers. With the GFC just hitting at the time, I was told that they weren’t interested in freelancers. But I must confess I got side-tracked at the time by some personal issues and probably didn’t pursue all the possible options. I should have done more of that cyber-door-knocking earlier I guess.
db. Happy birthday dude. Hope thats not ‘special’ cake.
David B,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! Enjoy the cake!!!
Patricia,
please don’t worry and keep your good spirit up! Confidence! Try to be on Skype this evening.
Civi,
yes, no more walls! And yes, please come over! There was a very international crowd of people celebrating at the Brandenburg gate. Lots of young people from France and Italy! Magic! It was pouring rain and everybody was soaked wet. Water in my cameras and lenses… but lots of fun!
More soon from this part of the world!
Reimar
JIM,
“It gets pretty incestuous. Photographers patting each other on the back with awards and grants for their great humanitarian efforts, while folks in the real world just keep suffering and dying. Sad, really.”
I totally agree with you. But you were unnecessarily nasty to Albertina.
And do you know what’s worse about it, it seems that some photography colleges are actually encouraging this way of working.
Do you remember recently how Aussie Glen from Darwin (is it Glenn I think his name is different – my mind is going) came and told us about the concerned photography online conference. I signed up and listened in for a few sessions. That was put on by Griffith University here. Not long after I got an email inviting entrants in a photography competition for Canon. The whole competition was only open to humanitarian photography. I think that’s what fuelling it. And then there’s the Canadian photographia awards we saw posted here recently. Another pot of money for people shooting humanitarian subjects. Where is the money for other sorts of photography. Ok i know it’s out there but its frustrating to see these narrow fields pushed to the exclusion of other things. All right I know you don’t have to go overseas to find humanitarian subjects at home but anyway, I am not going to market myself as a humanitarian photographer with a bunch of rich NGOs for clients.
David
sorry i almost forgot. Happy Birthday. Enjoy your cake.
john.. it’s ‘special’ only in the respect it has dime bar and home made ice cream..
thanks.
top cat and i are going for a hike n picnic.. it’s the last week of maternity leave before tucking back into making very little money for 12 hour days again.
can’t wait. :o)
need to plan a project back in exotic england.. the old country.. something about guns, knives or unemployment..
……..Andrea you can cycle, walk, drive go to cities, stay in the rural areas etc in the end you will still be a tourist. We westerners have been photographing, writing about, fighting with, fornicating, loving, hating ,tramping across, embracing India for a long long time but most of us do it as tourist ….. four months later you will still be the tourist unless you decide to take up residence
Andrea, why wouldnt staying home be an option? What kind of work can you do that DOESNT go beyond the cliche if you never get beyond being a tourist? A bicycle trip through India? What insight and what access are you going to get? Why not stay home, do something where you can have genuine access into a story? Because it won’t be exotic? India isnt exotic, Andrea, atleast not photography wise. India has been shot to death, and beyond.
ps Maybe you should improve your research skills ……….. start with lightstalkers
http://panosfotografia.com/podcast/?p=episode&name=2008-11-19_scottie.mp4
click on podcast… for Scottie the veteran…
or click below if u prefer speed than higher quality
( although i would still go with the above link for quality purposes )
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/VeniceBeachAndScottieTheVietnamVeteran?authkey=Gv1sRgCLfb8O2yyNqoOA#5402424460087260594
Imants,
Where did i say I thought I would be anything other than a tourist. When I say i am not going to India on a holiday, doesn’t mean I mean I think I’m a local, expat. I can be a tourist and not be on a holiday.
Rafal
Yes you are probably right about that re photography but I still want to go to India. It’s a fascinating place and I am not over it yet. Why did you leave home? Why does anyone leave home? Once again, I’m not staying home because it fits someone else’s agenda.
Imants,
ah yes, lightstalkers, I forgot about LS, though I think i did look some time ago. I’ll have another look. Thanks for the reminder.
Great stuff Panos I like the silence and then dialogue at the end nice touch that.
andrea – there is no agenda to keep you at home that i have read.. just food for thought if you’re going to stick a camera in front of some of the poorest people in the world..
…….. and rubber neck the holiday. holiday tourist same same but not different doi knia
http://www.polosbastards.com/bookreviewkarmacola091003.htm
this is a good book
all I can say is roll the mouse over the image …….. http://www.artouko.com./paranoid.htm
Imants…:)
Ha………….
dripping
dripping
dripping in the californiaaa desert..
http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/LOOK3,SNOOP,_MOVIES…etc…/Dripping.html
What makes a good photographer…?
Is it … just, character ??!…
Do you have to be a good person…?
to be a photographer…?
Does a camera makes a photographer…?
Does holding a baby makes you a mother…???
Does driving a car, makes you a driver…?
Does music… count…?
Does your clothes …. deliver some kinda special message..?
Does your camera believe in God ????
Are YOU a good person…?
Where… to what extend… would you sell your soul to pay the bills…?
ALL THE ANSWERS , HERE:
http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/LOOK3,SNOOP,_MOVIES…etc…/Ryans_hairdo_and_Detroit_memories….html
David,
It’s not as if I haven’t already thought about the issues of pointing my camera at strangers. I raised the issue here some time ago and got boxed over the ears because I used the word “stealing” to describe a practice of taking pictures without consent, tacit or explicit. Poor or not, it’s all the same if people are strangers. That’s why in the past I have almost always asked to take a picture. Given the Burn experience, I’ve lately been taking pictures without consent and getting pictures that look more like photojournalism. You know the ones with blurry heads in the foreground and people cropped at unusual places. :D I found out it is quite a fun and easy way to take pictures. If I haven’t deleted them off my laptop already, I’ll dig up a couple of jpgs to put in my album.
Imants
thanks for the reminder, I just found Mustafa Quraishi who has some great pics of the Maoists. I half expect to meet a couple of Maoists/Naxalites on my route, though I’d really rather not and I don’t intend to try taking their photograph. I will be pleased if they’d just let me keep going. But Mustafa’s pics are excellent. However, when I tried to go read his blogs, it buggered up all my tabs and now my safari browser and bookmarks are all messed up. So much for lightstalkers.
Clouds, dog shit and a lonely girl….
Imaginary streets…
Where the streets have no names…
Recession, hunger… foreclosures…
the city is dying….
… few contractors keep going, though…
still,
again,
things are “slowing down” at the best…
peace…
GHOST TOWNS… STILL VIRGINS…
PARADOX…:
NOBODY EVER LIVED THERE… BEFORE….
OR THERE YET…
STILL,
THEY ARE ALREADY “DEAD”….
A city that “eating” it’s own “flesh”…
http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/LOOK3,SNOOP,_MOVIES…etc…/%22Skinner_ways%22.html
HALLELUJAH
“Finding one self is not a sin…
cleansing, forgiving, playing….
performing, acting, posing…
moving , stirring ones emotions…
visual effects, medieval times…
survival … fear, pride… Venice Beach
today… May 2008!
http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/LOOK3,SNOOP,_MOVIES…etc…/Venice_Revisited_66….html
bisa berbicara bahasa forel?
pemain musik nope
there
no foto
no foto
no foto
no foto
no foto
http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm
……. bed! sheeps
aMERICA iS sTUPID…
eXPLANATIONS bELOW..
( TRY ABSYNTH YOU’LL LOVE IT )
http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/LOOK3,SNOOP,_MOVIES…etc…/%22BEER_IN,_BEER_OUT%22.html
Go out take great pictures of “exotic locations” fiddle with photoshop,vignettes,saturation maybe a few textures,develop a few actions and set up photo workshops and tours to dump gear heavy camera geeks infront of some of the worlds’ poorest people so they can come back home and dine out on the experience.
Maybe that is a reason to be a travel photographer.
http://www.pixelatedimage.com
http://www.thedigitaltrekker.com/gallery/
http://www.pixelatedimage.com/lumen-dei
Not that I am cynical or anything.
Cheers
all.
Ian
Jay Maisel quote “how do you become a better photographer?” “become a more interesting person.”
http://www.chrisorwig.com/flipside/2009/11/08/jay-maisel-interview/
Brilliant.
Um aitken, aren’t you just describing DAH’s career? No offense to DAH but… and I am sure he doesn’t photoshop his pictures to death but workshops and shooting exotic locations…?
Also I notice it seems to be ok to go anywhere in Eastern Europe but India is no longer cool. ha.
Correction: not “no longer cool” but seriously “uncool”. I am really not interested in what’s cool.
Pictures of my backyard are just about up. click my name. Last two uploading now.
AndreaC I understand your concerns, I almost added to the above post that DAH’s workshops carry a very different perspective to the workshops listed above. They are aiming at very different markets and also conveying a different education in the photographic workshop. Yes there is a subtle difference but the difference is there.
From what I understand of DAH’s workshops is there is a lifetime of photography, editorial experience,and life experience that is imparted during the workshops alongside encouragement and access to channels to sell your work. All with the underlaying background of true documentary story telling photography.
The above workshops strike me as “ship them in ship them out”, get some exotic pics, old faces, poor people, markets, pics of chillies etc etc. I saw a video of one of these workshops, loads of people oveloaded with camera kit, long lenses etc, an assistant holding a gold reflector whilst everyone took it in turns to photograph the cute old lady (probably only 25) with some nice reflected gold light on her face. I don’t think DAHS workshops are like this.
I also am not suggesting that you are like this I was just pointing to the possibilities, there is obviously money in it and a need for it as the workshops sell out in a few days from being published.
It is also the route alot of photogs are going down to supplement the dwinding returns from stock sales or editorial commissions.
There are workshops and workshops, they can be poles apart.
I also expect feeback and even correction on my views about the people who run the above workshops, I would be interested to hear if my perception is off the mark.
Cheers
ian
AndeaC,
I too travel for my work and it is a consistant issue for me trying not to be “the tourist” in some cases it is inevitable when doing work for rough guides etc. I try really hard to get deeply into the story when out on a trip.
I have an ongoing project in Portugal that I am really trying not to fall into the trap of being the tourist as the story is bigger than that and me. I am constantly struggling through the shooting and editing process to be (for want of a better word) “embedded” in the project.
I also shoot a fair amount at home to keep my eye in and also to force myself to reappraise what is on my doorstep, to try and infuse that same excitement and level of observance I feel when first landing in a new country, with what is in my backyard.
Will have a look at your pics soonest.
Cheers
Ian
JIM…
“It gets pretty incestuous. Photographers patting each other on the back with awards and grants for their great humanitarian efforts, while folks in the real world just keep suffering and dying. Sad, really.”
interesting comment…..however, please give us a scenario that would be better….most photographers i know who do humanitarian work are certainly working in the “real world”…exactly what world do you think they photograph??
sometimes i think by your comments that you feel all of us would just be better off putting our cameras away entirely and doing something else…
most of your comments make most photographers here feel that all of what we do is somehow a waste…..
in a photographer based environment like this one, surely the conversation/grants/awards could look “incestuous” if you are really really cynical, but please consider the overall impact on good works resonating with non-photographers outside this immediate circle…even here on Burn, we reach an audience of 30% non photographers…i would like to increase this percentage and i know you would too….but, please do not confuse the few grants and awards to photographers who had good intent for their work to be “back patting”…please please….a brief pat on the back for someone who has devoted months on a project or even their whole professional life is hardly compensation for the work most of them have done….sure, there are exceptions to pure nobility of effort…i could name a few….but why throw the baby out with the bathwater??
at the same time, i do not agree with those who think you are trying to destroy Burn….quite the contrary….you simply play a “devils advocate” role…every forum needs such a person…..i come from the school of very tough critique myself…my role here is not as a critic, but if it were , i would probably me much tougher on some photographers than are you….however, please consider that just a bit of diplomacy might make your comments much more valid…when you anger so many here to the point where they decide to not read your comments or threaten physical violence (which i of course do not condone), then it is time to really rethink your style of communication…just a frank thought Jim….as frank as are you…
bottom line: you well know, i have always supported you here on Burn…even when i am the object of your negative perusal….i will continue to support your right of free speech no matter what you say…….some are surprised when i tell them that i like you…i do…please just do not see this as an “incestuous pat on the back”…sometimes, albeit not always, things are actually as they seem…real…in real time and in a real world…thanks for thinking this over…
cheers, david
Ian, I didn’t know people did workshops like that. It sounds hideous. I wouldnt’ be surprised if the paying customers are highly disappointed as well. I have no beef with people doing travel tours and photography. If people can afford to combine a holiday with learning to take better pictures, sounds fine to me. As you say, photographers have to combine something else with their photography to make a living. That’s what the photographer I met here who makes his living from travel advised me as well. He writes and does courses but not tours as such. A lot of photographers have to write to get their pictures in print. And teaching seems to be a popular side line as does real estate photography. I hear that pays well.
I was surprised this morning to learn that people on flickr are giving their pictures away through creative commons just to be published. Someone wanted to get some pictures to go with my words on her cycling blog because I didn’t want to give them any pictures myself, since they weren’t going to pay me she said she’d get them from flickr.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if the whole profession dies out until all that’s left are the artists. It would be interesting to step forward in time to 50 years hence to see what happened to photography. However, while its still fun and interesting, I expect there will be people still trying to make a living from it.
at the same time, i do not agree with those who think you are trying to destroy Burn….quite the contrary….you simply play a “devils advocate” role…every forum needs such a person….
AndreaC, yea the future is scary. Every day I see tourists with 5D Mark II’s and L lenses. When we lose the technical edge, composition and narrative skill are all that’s left. Phrased like that it doesn’t sound so bad, but the financial ramifications are not good.
Regarding Albertina’s essay and awards… She has a solid understanding (conscious or not) of classical composition theory in a 3:2 format. One can apply those theories to parking lots and get eye catching photos, so I’m not surprised that awards committees would notice her work. I don’t mean that in a bad way. She’s not pointing her lens at parking lots, she’s pointing it at journalistically worthy subjects. I’ve sat in on a few awards processes and noticed that the strong compositions with uninteresting subjects are more likely to get second round consideration than poorly composed strong subjects. Typically, the eventual winners are strong both ways.
What I question is why so many of the horizons are skewed. I was taught that skewed horizons are either the result of a poor composition or a gimmick (like how they used them in the old batman series). Yet I can’t help but notice that that technique is widely accepted among professional photographers these days. So I guess I have to accept that it is not necessarily amateurish. I wonder if people compose the shots that way on purpose, make the best of a bad situation, or skew them in the darkroom to for the purpose of achieving a classical composition?
David B
I’ve read Karma Cola. A good book, like you say. At least it doesn’t describe me, given I’m an atheist ha ha. yet! I am going to visit an ashram this time for a few days. I’ll need a break by the time I get there, I am quite sure. India is exhausting. Sam told me about it. And i might even do a Vipassana course if I make it as far as Gujarat as I hope.
I left home for a job. And I didn’t pick up a camera till about 5 years after I moved here. Photography wise I am very much home. Maybe its just me but I cannot take photos when traveling. So I’m sure I would fail in India. For me to shoot I have to live my subject. The two essays I have had published on Burn were shot on a daily basis for over a year without stopping. Look at DAH, he left home to shoot his Divided Soul book but he worked on it for many, many years. OK, Parr can shoot a project in a week but I wouldn’t call his projects deep in the sense that he really explores the depths of his subjects.
i totally agree…
it wasnt that long ago that i was the “jim” in roadtrips…
i was the target of all those witch hunters…
i was the one bringing the “intellectual level” down etc…
if something.. i envy jim that took my throne…
( im not sarcastic at all )….
Do i agree with whatever jim says?
who cares really?
We need FREEDOM OF SPEECH…we need the advocate of the D…
we need to not agree with everything..etc…
and as jim says ( as i said in the past )..
u dont have to read his comments…u dont need to react…
cynic or not we are who we are and we offer what we can..
not everyone should like our character nor our work..
we are not meant for everybody..
remember…communism failed for the same reason…
utopia..
we are all equal..!!!??
no we are not…
people of this forum..
proceed with your opinions and stop taking yourselves that seriously…
you think your shit dont stink?
well i got news for u..
coz mine ( shit ) definitely do….
big hug
For me to shoot I have to live my subject.
————————————————-
absolutely 100% true..
One thing I find about people who have these fantastic ideas about projects is that there’s a lot of talk but because the subject is so far away nothing really comes of it. In the mean time a real meaningful project close to home is unnoticed because the photographer is busy day dreaming about India or China or the Outback, or whatever. Let’s say though that you go to India, how many really powerful photos and how deep do you expect the essay to be when you will have just scratched the surface for a couple of weeks? I mean it took DAH a decade or two to shoot Divided Soul…do you understand?
Majoli stayed couple years in the slums of brazil to record it..
i dont know fo sho, but im sure he wasnt sleeping in the Hilton hotel either…
(Am I going to bed tonight)
Michael it is funny you talk about skewed horizons. Today I was reading a hilarious blog that I came to via Patricia’s blog. Let me see if I can find a link… http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html
Read it for your pleasure.
About the trend of skewed horizons, its can be hard to get straight horizons in digital cameras, especially point and shoot cameras. I don’t know why they don’t put a horizon line across the screen. It never used to be a problem in film cameras. I’ve come to the conclusion that photographers leave their horizons skewed because it looks like they haven’t touched it with photoshop. I’m getting use to other people’s skewed borders but I am not so keen on them in my own pics so I always fix it.
Rafal
I had forgotten that aspect of your essay. But you are entitled to mix your travel and photography in a way that suits you and so am I. I haven’t said anywhere about trying to make a book from this trip. I do hope I can sell some images though and I hope I can produce a photo essay. I don’t think it has to take a long time to make a good essay. Michael Mullady’s essay wasn’t done over years and frankly when he said he wanted to go back and shoot more, I thought what on earth for? What else do you need to say? What difference will it make? His job should be getting his current work in front of the right people’s noses, surely. I think books are a great way to show travel/editorial photography such as the work I’ve seen by DAH, HBC and all those people from the past Brassai, Robert Frank etc, I am not so sure books are good for humanitarian photography. They are not good for me anyway. I think its conceptually wrong except perhaps if showing the life work of someone. At least that’s my opinion. It sort of backfired with the FSA photographers didn’t it? It was studying the FSA photographers that I first came upon the notion that humanitarian photography doesn’t change things. Just the other day I came across an interesting photo essay where a man was photographing people from the Appalachians. He was from the area and noted that the people were hurt by the photography of the FSA project. They said to this photographer, “please don’t say anything about us living in poverty”.
I don’t think there’s a “trend” about skewed horizons. I think people just stopped caring about unimportant crap. In the end who cares about a skewed horizon unless you are shooting landscapes? As photography evolves it shakes loose of mindless rules like this or the “golden rule.”
what is a “skewed” horizon?
whats a rule of thirds?
Skewed horizon is what people point to when they have no idea what else to say.
Rafal, Your last post is a bit off beam. I don’t think you’ve read my posts today at all.
Rafal read the blog. Its funny. You will love it.
lol
:)))))
I read parts:)
“I don’t think there’s a “trend” about skewed horizons. I think people just stopped caring about unimportant crap. In the end who cares about a skewed horizon unless you are shooting landscapes? As photography evolves it shakes loose of mindless rules like this or the “golden rule.””
Agreed.
huevos de oro
that was a good film.
PANOS wrote,
“i totally agree…
it wasnt that long ago that i was the “jim” in roadtrips…
i was the target of all those witch hunters…
i was the one bringing the “intellectual level” down etc…”
Panos,
In fairness to Jim, your behavior in Roadtrips was WAAAY beyond anything he posts, here.
The difference, for me, is that YOU evolved.
You were piled on with equal measures of attack and assistance and you, somehow, came out of the
exercise as a much better version, in my opinion, of the person and photographer you were then.
You still stick to your core opinions but the difference is that you now present them in a more
constructive fashion.
Thanks Andrea, yes that’s funny.
Well Rafal et. al., In the end, who cares about whatever as long as the composition works. I don’t know whether I’m bothered by skewed (or whatever the right word is) horizons due to training or some personal aesthetic, but I’m in no way saying everyone should share my discomfort with the phenomena. Just curious what others think. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Though, as I mentioned above, I suspect that those golden rules may influence contest and awards juries. Not consciously perhaps, but the human mind is attracted to certain types of order.
David B
eggs is eggs.
cheers
ian
Mark…
u r right…i was out of control…
no doubt..
:)…
Yup. There were some gems :>))
I feel that the biggest difficulty encountered when shooting an overseas project is the actual logistics of keeping the project going. The enjoyable and productive part of a “home based” project is that you can shoot it all the time with minimal costs involved.
Take my Timor project for example; I have had to put it on hold precisely because I haven’t the cash. But if I felt I hadn’t come home and derived enough publicity (for the problem, not for me) then I wouldn’t return. Also; if it is being done to death by other photographers then I won’t return either.
You need to have your ethics pretty well sorted if you are going to shoot a humanitarian project otherwise you may as well donate the flight money directly to a aid agency etc working there.
I feel that the publicity garnered from the trip; newspaper and magazine articles made the money expended worthwhile. I only made money on one article (and donated 20% of it back to an orphanage) I still do talks (at no charge) to groups as well.
I have resolved not to travel to a country for a one-off short trip (2-4 weeks) unless it is an important story that I can return to on a regular basis and will make an actual difference. I also feel that if you only have a few weeks to chase a subject you’re better off staying in one place and working on it.
For example, when I have finished the youth project (at least another 18 months) if I return to Timor I will actually move there to pursue the project.
But these are only my rules, for me to use, everyone else must make their own mind up on what suits them. After the Timor trip my brother in law said to me “I admire what you’re doing, but it won’t make a difference” But what difference could I make in my last job working for a big corporate supermarket?
I’m not a gear head by any means; only use a D300, 12-24mm and a 20mm lens. But one of the most embarrassing moments in the Dili IDP camps was being asked how much my camera cost.
I sort of embarrassedly muttered “$3,000” (D300 at New Zealand prices…) She just laughed and whistled… I worked out that the cost of the camera and lens would have been the annual wage for 22 people….
ross – great post..
also people do not consider what happens when someone tries to steal the equip..
or what happens to them if local friends find out..
blahblah..
nice pictures..
reality is never what people imagine so all need to be careful what is wished for..
In case somebody’s interested, I was interviewed over at la pura vida
http://lapuravidagallery.com/blog/2009/11/conversation-with-joni-karanka/
Am I late ???
That’s for you DAVID BOWEN or DB DAVID-B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQjJsb7fqW4&feature=related
have a beautiful HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!! and HAPPY Day for all the BURNIANS …
P.S Wake up KATIE and MyGRACIE and SPACECOWBOY…
REIMAR … your smile comes from the heart…VIVA !!!
I like your rhetorical style…Would you use the same questions in the upcoming interviews???
Just a rhetorical question …opa,tsipoura on me
“…What makes a good photographer…?
Is it … just, character ??!…
Do you have to be a good person…?
to be a photographer…?
Does a camera makes a photographer…?
Does holding a baby makes you a mother…???
Does music… count…?
Does your clothes …. deliver some kinda special message..?
Does your camera believe in God ????
Are YOU a good person…?
Where… to what extend… would you sell your soul to pay the bills…?…”
PANOS,I like your rhetorical style…Would you use the same questions in the upcoming interviews???
Just a rhetorical question …opa,tsipoura on me ,souvlakia on you !!!
JKARANKA,
GONGRATULATIONS !!!…I am so happy BURNIANS…another Doctor in the house…
P.S We are getting so many …we will need any kind of doctor …
OIME…I am Happy and proud of you
ALL OF YOU
ALL oF YOU…Universe is with us …can you feel it…
rain didn’t stop BUT I am dancing in the rain …what the heck …I am lucky cause I love me and
I LOVE ALL OF YOU …ok, BURN me now…
and ANDREAC you are a BURNIAN …your journey in India has already started…
…I would suggest to relax and enjoy …and we will be here …waiting
to hear and see …whatever your heart will reveal ( tears and laughs, heartBURNing and farts…)
Enjoy and be safe !!! VIVA AUSSIES !!!
P.S as the BURN street fighter , KATIE will say …hmmm…she will be here soon…
she has a way with writing …oime :))) I will stay silent :)))
Have a look at this. It’s brilliant.
http://www.roguefilmschool.com/default.asp
Somebody steal $1500 and sign up….
matthew – thats for me..
civi.. O and thanks muchly..
Civilian Mass Audience
to my favorite, really my one and only everyman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr-hqAjdNrU
¨Everybody’s just waiting to hear from the one
Who can give them the answers
And lead them back to that place in the warmth of the sun
Where sweet childhood still dances
Who’ll come along
And hold out that strong and gentle father’s hand?
Long ago I heard someone say something ’bout everyman¨
besos y asbestos, chiquillo:
kathleen
If selected to participate in the limited capacity seminar (maximum 50 students),
Why pay Steal $1450 for a course in LA when you can visit Panos……….
I say we send in Panos…..then we go visit him
To all-
I have come across a very nice little book from Barbara Crane.. Polaroid snapshots taken in Chicago at various public festivals (see the link underneath). Really interesting to see photographs to what is now an almost obsolte photographic medium, the Polaroid… I recommend to check it out if not done already…. At the age of complex digital cameras, kind of nice to see that you could make great photographs with such a simple equipment…
http://www.photoeye.com/bookstore/citation.cfm?catalog=DQ180&i=&i2=&CFID=12184731&CFTOKEN=74351212
I seem to remember hearing or reading that a small group of passionate fanatics of polaroid were trying to restart prtoduction of the rolls, buying the old manufacturing equuipment tc…Does anyone know if this ever happened?
Eric
Ross
Thanks for telling us your experience.
Jonnie K
I just read your interview. I like the pics. About long projects and given these news shots that I haven’t seen before, I feel I would rather see more pics than 23 or so if someone has worked on a project for that length of time. This project of yours would be great in a book with a 100 photos or so. At least that’s my opinion. It might be a more diffuse message than a short tightly edited essay but I still think I would prefer the book book, unless there weren’t enough good shots.
Civi,
Thanks. You are such generous heart.
Eric
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=867981
Eric
If you haven’t seen it already you’d probably find this site of interest
http://photooftheday.hughcrawford.com/
A bit of background
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs//archives/15131
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/15879
David Bowen
Just read back and saw it was your birthday..happy birthday to one of the best around here..and many, many more!
HugZ
kathleen
Mark,
Thanks for sharing the links… Quite a fascinating and sad story at the same time the one of his man who took one polaroid picture until the day he dies… These polaroids give such a feeling of “nostalgia”. Also the uniqueness of the print, medium, seems to give these protographs have a particular emotional value…
Eric
happy birthday david bo… BOOwen… even though i am late in my greetings i did not forget to eat three bowls of coffee and almond ice cream and five bananas to make 4 banana splits in my tummy…
been watching yous… and reading yous… but didnt download panos’ friggin obscene photo… i swear (wink)
pfftt… katiecakes and my dear civi… pffffttt…. sending yous not so silent ones… luvs
@ Eric
Yes, really nice to know that some people are still shooting with old cameras, like Polaroid, Holgas, Lomos, etc… the mouvement is becoming fashionable in Europe, like being “IN”, if you shoot with that. But at the same time, is great that is not dead at all.
Pictures gets interesting when people approach to you and they say, “You are taking pictures with THAT?, and IT works??”
With this, you started the conversation… and in less than 10 minutes, you got great pictures of the person in front of you.
I’m actually shooting (for fun) with a 35mm film Kodak Retinnette, from 1952.
@ Ross:
Great Post, Ross. I’m totally agree with you.
Shooting nearby is much more interesting that shooting abroad.
You can shoot when you want, you can shoot when you really feel that, and when a photographer feel the picture, the picture is f….ing great! You can get involved with people, talk to them, explain what you are doing, come back with prints, and a respect will be created between both in a very short time. And pictures will becomes even more interesting.
When I’m abroad, I have/need to much to see, in a short time, that I can’t focus in a single story… hard to do that. (what about if I don’t even speak they own language).
I know that everyone wants to travel, discover, get astonished… but not become just tourists photographers…
Viva BURN,
P.
Kathleen,
You are a Jackson Browne fan? I have LOVED him since the day I first heard him.
Told him so when I met him long ago :))
JUST saw him last month at a benefit concert (of course) in Santa Fe.
It was for women’s health charities. Kris Kristofferson had to cancel at the last minute.
Maybe a 300 seat historic theatre down the street from my house.
I heard JB was coming and went nuts…the show was already sold out with Kris headlining.
I went running down to the ticket office to beg or sit until someone cancelled their tickets and miracle of miracles someone had just called saying they weren’t coming. Solo acoustic show…one of the best concerts I’ve seen.
Hi Eric,
I have the book Private views, by Barbara Crane, I think she shot those photographs with an old 4×5 press camera and yes by 2010 there will be 600 instant film again here is the link to the lastest on the impossible project
The Impossible Project inspires Polaroid to re-launch Instant Cameras: We are pleased to announce a history making cooperation between Polaroid and The Impossible Project
http://www.theimpossibleproject.com/
I love shooting with different polaroids and my holga and woca cameras.
Best, Valery
Hi Eric,
I have the book Private views, by Barbara Crane, I think she shot those photographs with an old 4×5 press camera and yes by 2010 there will be 600 instant film again here is the link to the latest on the impossible project
The Impossible Project inspires Polaroid to re-launch Instant Cameras: We are pleased to announce a history making cooperation between Polaroid and The Impossible Project
http://www.theimpossibleproject.com/
I love shooting with different polaroids and my holga and woca cameras.
Best, Valery
Cathy
Wow, i am soooo glad you got to see Jackson Browne..i have always been so-so about him but today i wanted something about “everyman” to give Civi who personifies that person to me. I googled “everyman” and picked through the offerings and loved this song, loved the lyrics and the fact that this version was from Amnesty International which is another thing that reminds me of Civi.
I used to love JJ Cale. My favorite..favorite..favorite. As luck would have it i got to see him in Greenwich Village many years ago. I thought it would never happen and now, living in Costa Rica i wonder if it ever did happen. So, i know what it feels like to have such an amazing experience. Of course i never got to tell JJ how i felt about him and his music.
Nice story..you made me smile BIG!
GRACIEohGRACIEohGRACIE
You graced us with your presence today..Burn is the better for your cheery, ice-creamy, bananarama goodness. Poor Panos will never be the same when he hears he failed to seduce you with his coy over-the-shoulder come hitherness to print-baby-print..you know you want to, we might all be dead tomorrow, tonight’s all we have, don’t say maybe, baby, just come on, Eileen, good girls don’t but you do, just lift your finger..that’s it, nice and slow, move it this way, and then that way, yeah, settle it right there, over the print button and easy now, verrrry easy, just———-press——–PRINT!
besos, goodness grace-ious
kat-
Katie; I just found out that Ry Cooder is playing here in 4 days. Now i’ve just got to find a spare $60…
Ross spot on.
Ahhhhh polaroid….
I have just been doing some work with the local primary school (6 year olds) a little talk about photography and some hands on experience. To illustrate that in “them good old days” you had to wait for film to develop I delved around in the cupboards and dug out the medium format and some unused polaroid. What a blast, the heavy clunk of the shutter, pulling the polaroid, sticking it under your arm to keep it warm, waiting 2 mins, pealing back the backing paper to reveal that magical little square image, delightful. Needless to say the kids didn’t have quite the same attitude, they wanted instant.
Must find a project to use up the rst of the stock before it goes off.
cheers
ian
Ian;
I’ve decided that I’m going to shoot a “backburner” project with the Holga. I want to shoot a “typical” Kiwi summer in colour (sorta retro looking) as I’ll be in most of the places shooting the youth work anyway.
Mind you, the way the mag work is drying up here who knows what’s going to happen. Every editor is really cutting back on budgets…
I want to shoot a “typical” Kiwi summer in colour (sorta retro looking)…… shoot digital you Kiwis are atleast 2 decades behind the rest of the world
Ross
Ry Cooder
do tell me all about it if you get to go..he’s mean.
g’night!
k/
Hi Unka Imants.
Afta iz lurn ta rite and spell reel gud, I mite luk at stealin wun ov those god durned nu fangld digi thangs. Iz too buzy tryn ta find a cuzun ta wed rite now.
See u lata; Iz off tu find a road kill possum fow vittles tunite.
Ur cuzun Ross from th hills.
Still trying to bag that fox pelt cuz?
unka Imants and unka Ross – hav u sin or herd from unka Jim?
i mis him tremendosli. i mis his witi caments even mo. his is irepleisble.
chirz.
GRACIE, hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii…..
No Unka. Dem reel rite smart crittas is dem foxs, I gonna stik with road kill fo now. I bin tu bizy fussn and fudin with mi otha cuzin coz he dun stole my wife. I ain’t got menny cuzins left tu marry now. Dem wild billy goats in dem ther hills lookn durned purdy at th moment….
I gotta go now Unka, its gettn dark here and I cn heer that pesk dang possum cummn down from yonder apple tree. I’ll go git my old .303 and git me sum supper…
Oh god; I’ve just realised how close that all sounded to text speak…. :-)
One last thing Unka; we ain’t got no foxes here in little old Noo Zeelund can u send a pelt; it dang cold at nite wit no missuss…
cuz it’s been twenty fold years and you have finally figured out the fox caper. still listening to Th’Dudes Where are the Girls with Billy and his mates
Nah I’ve been listening to Ry Cooder’s Paris Texas. Reminds me of Perth WA. Why? Because me and my mate used to listen to it on Sundays after boozy Saturday nights in Freo!!! Oh, and a little of the hair of the dog of course, no foxes though!!
ok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVR-V64meKo
Ross, I have a Lee-Enfield SMLE No.4 Mk.2 that I bought in a G.I. Surplus store in the early 1960’s for the princely sum of $6. Well, it was a princely sum for a 13 year old! Shortened the stock, reblued the barrel and action, and hunted with it for several years. Great gun and the .303 if a fine deer round.
bloody powerful kick though..
……..what the mule?
Nah, a .460 Weatherby Magnum has a powerful kick, a .303 is just a gentle push. :)
@andreaC: yes, I know it could be longer, but I think it’s very different to have a slideshow, were you rather see it all, or a book or exhib, where you can switch off and come back to it several times… I have this feeling that people on the net are rather impatient ;-)
I don’t think people on the net are actually impatient. It’s just that we’re only going to live to 70 or 80 years old and there are a bizillion new photos to look at every day. :)
ANDREA C…
no offense to you, but you must have no idea what my workshops and my career are all about…”travel to exotic locations” is certainly NOT my mantra at all…travel/location is 100% incidental to anything that i do or teach….i am all about photographing in your own backyard and with a minimalist and personal approach …again,please do just a wee bit of homework on this one….my most recent book (Living Proof) and my next book (Off For a Family Drive) are clearly “in my own backyard” efforts and even everything else is based on the earliest works (see Tell It Like It Is, Tangier Island etc) all done from home base….i never do gratuitous travel….
cheers, david
Imants and Ross and now Haik too
VERY funny, ´Ross…what a cheerfully hilarious good morning exchange to greet me..
hahahahaha!
bestest
k-
David
Sorry to offend. I will try to clarify what I was saying. I have looked at your work on your website. I have a lot of respect for what you are doing in your workshops. Although I know little about them, I know they are not a tour for amateur photographers. I know also you photograph a lot in Cuba. Your Cuba is my India.
My response to Aitken was because I was trying to point up how “off” his comment was. A gross generalisation that came across to me as an empty and unwarranted type of superiority. It came across to me as scoffing at people who earn their living from what I call travel photography and photography tours. I can’t see anything wrong with making your living this way. With as much respect as I can muster your Cuba pictures are not hard hitting photojournalism, unless I’ve missed something. That is not a criticism by any means. It is just that I’ve considered your work like any that is based on documenting other cultures, that is not overtly about an issue but about the culture. I don’t see the gap between photographing national geographic stories and what is termed “travel” photography as being that huge. I am quite sure anyone shooting “travel” would love to shoot for national geographic. I think people who shoot travel also publish photographic books about the countries they travel through. If its not about the culture, I am not sure what it is about. I am not commenting about the quality of the work, I am commenting on the genre I guess. You would surprise me if you said they were hard-hitting photojournalism. But I admit, I haven’t seen your work in National Geographic. I don’t see any significant difference between the intent of your work in Cuba and the sort of work I would try to do in India. Aitken seemed to be having a go at me for photographing in India. I am not saying anything as silly as my work would be of the same quality as your work – for the benefit of anyone who tries to accuse me of comparing my photography to yours. As far as workshops go, whether your students are potential professionals or amateurs, a workshop is still a workshop, its all about people improving their work. My understanding of photographic tours was that it was for enthusiastic amateurs. As you can see from my response to Aitken later, I was not aware of factory type photographic tours.
As an answer to Aitken, by referring to your work, i thought it would be the quickest route to show him how silly I thought his scoffing comment was. I was not bringing your work down. I was suggesting to him that at the other end of the scale that he is criticising is the likes of DAH.
If I have misunderstood your work on Cuba, I am sorry.
I understand the issues of the general objection to photographing certain other cultures. I am not going to photograph India to show the plight of poor people. My photographs of India are more a celebration of the culture of India. But at the same time, I take what I find and I know there is suffering. But my photographs of India as I travel through it are not taken with the intention trying to appeal to a western audience to sort out the problems of Indians. It’s not as DavidB said something about absolution. That idea has no resonance with me at all. If I was to find a story that told of hardships in India, I would probably try to have it published in India. But as I don’t have a photojournalists training and my trip is a journey, then its not very likely that I will do a photojournalistic story.
So while I understand the merits of photographing in your own backyard. It’s not where my head is at at the moment. The logistics of photographing here are difficult for me. My car just kicked the bucket. I don’t have the money to buy another. I am happy with a bicycle though its not very practical where I live – 20km from the nearest supermarket and over 50km from the nearest city. I like to travel on my bicycle. I can do it in Australia. And I can do it elsewhere. I have already done a trip here this year. My india trip has been in the planning for two years. It is annoying that people suggest I should just abandon it.
JoniKaranka,
I know you don’t have the option of showing a 100 pics on Burn. But when I was reading your interview and you talked about picking the best images and I looked at the images you showed on that blog, I realised how impossible it is to pick the best pics. And while for you (which is of course the main thing) you have to make such decisions to include one pic over another, given what I can see of those others, I’d say anyone of us might choose a whole different set of pics to achieve your stated aim. I mean the subject is not quite as narrow as it looked on Burn. That’s the impression i got from the interview and pics there anyhow.
JoniKaranka,
I know you don’t have the option of showing a 100 pics on Burn. But when I was reading your interview and you talked about picking the best images and I looked at the images you showed on that blog, I realised how impossible it is to pick the best pics. And while for you (which is of course the main thing) you have to make such decisions to include one pic over another, given what I can see of those others, I’d say anyone of us might choose a whole different set of pics to achieve your stated aim. I mean the subject is not quite as narrow as it looked on Burn. That’s the impression i got from the interview and pics there anyhow.
JoniKaranka,
I know you don’t have the option of showing a 100 pics on Burn. But when I was reading your interview and you talked about picking the best images and I looked at the images you showed on that blog, I realised how impossible it is to pick the best pics. And while for you (which is of course the main thing) you have to make such decisions to include one pic over another, given what I can see of those others, I’d say anyone of us might choose a whole different set of pics to achieve your stated aim. I mean the subject is not quite as narrow as it looked on Burn. That’s the impression i got from the interview and pics there anyhow.
oops.
Andrea, the difference is that DAH spent years photographing in Cuba and made himself very knowledgeable about the people and culture. Travel photography it is not.
ANDREAC:
“your Cuba pictures are not hard hitting photojournalism,”
What is “hard hitting” photojournalism?
FROM merriam-webster.com:
Main Entry: pho·to·jour·nal·ism
Pronunciation: \ˌfō-tō-ˈjər-nə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1938
: journalism in which written copy is subordinate to pictorial usually photographic presentation of news stories or in which a high proportion of pictorial presentation is used; broadly : news photography
FROM Freedictionary.com
pho·to·jour·nal·ism (ft-jûrn-lzm)
n.
Journalism in which a news story is presented primarily through photographs with supplementary written copy.
From POYNTER online By Kenneth Irby Visual Journalism Group Leader/Diversity Director:
PHOTOJOURNALISM: is the craft of employing photographic storytelling to document life: it is universal and transcends cultural and language bounds.
Now if you mean that David does not cover wars, famine and the like, then this may be true. But “hard hitting” to me is a story that grabs your attention and takes you into the lives or situation of the subject. A story that compels a viewer to keep looking and be engaged with the subject.
Time and commitment is the key I think..
AndreaC,
I think your cycle trip in India sounds great and good on you for doing it.
As with anything there is continual learning, I for one would sign up to a DAH workshop as soon as if I had the money. (this is not to say I think they are over priced it’s just the commercially it been pretty rough this year)
I wasn’t “scoffing” at workshops, they are an important part of any industry especially the photography industry when so often photographers are self employed and drifting in a large sea. To go on a workshop to get guidance and feedback is necessary.
I have been a travel photographer for years, setting up my own library which has now been incorporated a larger library. Why would I scoff at this?
I wasn’t having a go at you Andrea, for godness sake you are heading to India which is a hugely visual place, get snapping, also travelling by bike you will be right in the action.
Why take things so personally.
Cheers
Happy biking and travelling
Pete,
Hard hitting photojournalism to me is everyday newsworthy photojournalism, including wars and issues. But essentially stories that are told in the news. I don’t see what I am doing as essentially any different from what DAH was doing in Cuba and I don’t think my trip is gratuitious.
Aitken,
Then why did you write the post you did. I am not going to go back and read it but it definitely was scoffing at something and since we were talking about photographing in india, I can’t see any other point than what I made of it. Your follow up post helped to rectify you general position so I don’t hold anything against you but I did think your first post was off the mark. You don’t need to defend your position any further for my benefit.
On the subject of “travel photography,” is what DAH does travel photography? No. Can the images that DAH creates be used in travel magazines and travel stories that want to show what life is like for the locals at a travel destination? Yes, and it probably has been used that way many times.
Jim is correct, partially (yes I read a Jim comment…) “DAH spent years photographing in Cuba and made himself very knowledgeable about the people and culture.”
This allows David to make better photographs because he has a greater understanding of the culture he is photographing. This imagery cannot be created by spending a few days in a exotic locale. This does not mean that you cannot get one or two images that reach that level, but I think it is much harder and you have to be lucky.
The other thing is that if you are trying to shoot compelling images of a culture ala DAH, it is hard to do that and be a “tourist” at the same time.
My wife and I went to Italy for our honeymoon. Spent three days in Naples and four days in Rome.
I said before I left that I would shoot everything I saw. And I did. Some 4000 images. Now most of them are publishable in a travel piece. You know, pretty shots of the sights and the people. But being in “tourist” mode, I was also trying to “see” the sights and also more importantly, be on my honeymoon. So while I have a lot of “stock”, which in itself can have a value, I only really have about 5 images that I love and move more toward the type of image that DAH would shoot while in Italy and not being a tourist.
To do what David does you have to immerse yourself in the culture and meet the people. Build friendships and a deep understanding of the culture you are photographing.
I hope that rambling makes sense.
DAH is not at the beginning of his career so of course I would expect he’d have an indepth understanding of the culture. I also study the culture I am photographing. Its a very complex culture. I have only spent about five months there so far but I have a number of Indian friends. I think travel photographers are passionate about the places they go. I think they try to understand the culture. Most who go to India will study the culture I am positive about that. As I a sure is the case for anyone who goes to South America, Africa or Eastern Europe. Those of us who love to travel tend to want to learn about the cultures we visit. To me someone who visits one culture is not a better person than someone who visits numerous cultures. I am not going to debate this further. I’ve said my piece. It’s all a question of degree.
Andrea, then I’m certain we’ll see a major book from you on your trip through India. I’m sure the publishers are watching your travel work with great interest.
Would love to continue this debate, but i am doing that terrible thing of splitting my time between looking after the kids (who are wrecking the house), trying to do some editing and debating on burn and none are being done effectively, so tools down and I’m off for quality time with kids and cooking dinner.
Cheers
All
ok..ALL…
i didnt forget my responsibilities…
i just talked with NIKOS ECONOMOPOULOS…
big meeting tomorrow night local, athens ( city of moustaches ) time…(7pm local time )
Interview part1 starts tomorrow..
stay tuned…
big hug
that’s something to look forward to ..
panos – i wonder if he’d be up for a parr style online chat?
good luck for tomo..
This seems like a strange debate to be having (in AndreaC’s great phrase), “the general objection to photographing certain other cultures.” Why the derision for shooting in exotic locales? — an exotic locale is just someone else’s backyard. Yes, it’s nice to be drawn to what’s in your own backyard, but if your interests lie in things on the other side of the globe, what’s wrong with that?
The strawman in the argument is the photog who packs his expensive gear, boards a plane to Asia or Africa, where the locals are both poor and photogenic in their costumes, blithely takes pictures knowing nothing of the culture, and then sells the shots to a travel magazine for a large sum of money.
But this is a myth, and no one here on Burn works this way, and there is no market for “travel photography,” which is undefinable. And there is no money in photography generally.
I happen to spend 95% of my photography time shooting in cultures different from the one I was born into. Sometimes I work in my own backyard (New York); other times I work in different countries. I applaud any photographer’s willingness to challenge his or her assumptions and comfort zone, to see the world from a different cultural point of view, and to experience life in different settings. Why sneer at this?
David… i’ll do my best…
best believe this
big hug
…but im a little nervous…
cant hide it…
he is not the “easiest subject”…and im not the best interviewer..
wish erica was next to me…
:)))))))
good news..
I FORGOT TO POST EARLIER
…my VENICE exhibition will be shown for a month around CAMP PENDLETON…SAN DIEGO..
available only for our ( my troops )…
AMERICAN SOLDIERS…
i will give address as soon as they tell me…
yes..
thats my contribution to our heroes…
( scream as much as u want )
but … long live our american troops…
i only hope that “venice” is violent enough to satisfy them….
big hug
it wont be in a gallery..
but in a hospital for K-9’s…( dogs that belong to soldiers )
happy to help and contribute…
ok , now bash me..:)
…. AND ONE LAST THING..
BIG THANKS TO HAIK… HE HELPED ME WITH ALL THE PRINTS…SIX MONTHS AGO…
in the exhibition of venice in LA..
he “printed ” all those…
of course i just notified haik about the military hospital…through skype…
but still…its “his prints”…my photos.. but still…”his prints”..
big hug
sorry haik…
i know i told u all that a second before i posted on burn…
but ..u know how our military is…:)))))
panos.. as a tip.. the best writers and interviewers seem to ask few questions and leave extended pauses for answers.. when i think people have finished an answer, the pause they leave has led to an extended answers..
take your time and it’ll fly by..
transcribing.. now.. there is the bitch.
malaka. prints. main? u crezi.
david…
i’ll do my fucking best to “present” and “represent”
nikos..
“eccentric” intellectually speaking is definitely NOT the word..
but u get what im saying… i hope…
Andrea;
There is a big difference between a concentrated hands-on workshop and many of the “photo tours” masquerading as workshops. The main problem is that nearly all are held in the Northern Hemisphere; a looong way from us who live down under!
Jim;
I still have my old SMLE (1942 model) and still use it. Nearly every back country farm here has an old 303, something to use when the wild pigs come out from the bush and rip up the paddocks and kill the lambs.
During lambing time the boars and old sows follow ewes about to give birth, until the lamb drops. They then proceed to eat the lamb. All they leave is a perfectly clean skin with head and feet attached. You’d swear they had been professionally skinned! Not a pretty sight for a farmer to come out and see 20 or 30 dead lambs in the paddock each morning…
Typical NZ wild boar; called “Captain Cookers” here.
http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/23226
All pigs, deer (7 species), chamois, thar, wallabies, hare, possums, rabbits etc etc are introduced animals here and cause tremendous damage to the native bush and wildlife…
Meant to say “nearly all are the hands-on workshops are held in the Northern Hemisphere” etc etc
david… ok…gotcha
manana.
test
ok… good night
enjoy it :o)
AITKEN,
what are you cooking mate???…cause nobody leaves the BURNing debate …for kids and cooking…
(to be perceived as joke)
PETE,
you just did it for me…I felt a connection…BUT I rely pretty much on the wiki…:)))
it might be the lay out for my dyslexia ( to be perceived as joke)
ANDREAC…
BURNIANS don’t mess with AC cause she has the strongest legs around (50 klm bicycling)
( to be perceived as a joke)
IMANTS, ROSSY,
wht th fk ar y smkng???
( to be perceived as no joke)
PANOS,
our tell it as it is, the all out there….suffers from stage freeze ….I am in awe
( to be perceived as a joke)
KATIE,katiecakes as myGRACIE says
yes, finally… credit when credit is due …I am the Everyday man …
yes,when we will meet Street Fighter …hold your breath…
cause I can keep silent …not for long ( to be perceived as a joke)
HAIK,
I owe you…for real… no kidding
VIVA ,VIVA ,VIVA …
P.S one baby rabbit is gone up in the Universe today…baby rabbit is looking to find
our SPACECOWBOY …hmmm…I am so happy …cause I know is gonna be happy up there
yiewwwwwwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwww…BURN THE SPACE DOWN
DAVIDB,
Hug TORCAPA…I miss that little blue-eyed puddle …
fruits and olive oil…i know it’s getting freaking expensive BUT give him with the salads…
Anyways, what do I know ??? back to my usual dance eating ouzo and drinking xtapodi
VIVA and one sheep, two sheeps…that’s my ownersheep :)))
LOVE
& david…
yes..as civi said..
big hug to our burn baby…Tor C…
and fuck the flu..
each and every strain of that bitch..
big hug
machine guns are fun.
still – i couldn’t hit a rabbit with myxomatosis at close quarters with a .22 if asked..
terrible shot ya see..
thus
machine guns are fun.
top cats fine.. laughing an running into walls the little puddle..
(puddle.. splendid description..)
he needs a hair cut.. love it.. resisting until people say,
“your daughter’s big for 13 months”
we did not have the heart to call him sue.
love to the white rabbit civi baby..
aii, HAPPY VETERAN’S DAY …
BURNIANS someone said…”Freedom is never free.”
“How important it is for us to recognize and celebrate our heroes and she-roes!” -Maya Angelou
DAVIDB …What Not To LOVE…I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLL
OOO))) Zizizi
But no one asked wa happin to the 5th rabbit? dinner?
Civi? what games are you playing?
come on, Civi. i demand :). Story of the 5th rabbit…. you owe me.
“To me someone who visits one culture is not a better person than someone who visits numerous cultures”
:o)
(sorry – i know you have ‘left the building’ as far as this subject is concerned.)
my point in response to your exploring ideas for your trip was that if you are not utterly focused on a humanitarian subject – have not laid down plans and thought out distribution and possible benefits of doing the work – then it is difficult to be supportive…
especially true when your first post referred to a project snapping ‘beggers’, and seemed to betray a lack of ethical and journalistic knowledge..
i may have come across wrong – in which case apologies..
it feels like planning the photography is very much an afterthought rather than the purpose..
after the couple of trips you have already made that comes as a surprise.. i genuinely believed this was to be your first trip, since otherwise i would have imagined a firmer on-going project to have already begun..
there is everything to be applauded in exploring a country in terms of culture… any country.
i think of travel photography in a similar vein to pete.. of course there is nothing wrong with deciding how you want to make money from your photography..
‘travel’ is not a genre of photography though.. it’s a highly generic term which uses all kind of photography, (portrait, landscape, architectural and so on), most of which speaks positively and to the commercial market.. it is at odds with humanistic, documentary and PJ work because, as with advertising, it’s purpose is to sell and not to explore.. and so, as with advertising, it makes efforts to be general – hint – expose as little as possible.. investigate nothing.. trivialize.. play cliche..
the crux of it is that i would find it near impossible to concentrate on a project and also find the time to look for generic, sale-able ‘travel’ shots.. however, no question some of my project work ends up in in-flight magazines, brochures.. so on, although
never with india, for me :o)
after one and a half years spent living in india for 2 projects, i doubt there are many sale-able ‘stock’ images amongst the neg files.. for much of my time there i have been living within a one mile radius of a village anyway..
i’ve no interest in ‘travel’, (it’s mostly a ball-ache), only the subject of the photography.
the photographic passion which means people have to travel in order to carry it out is the polar opposite of ‘travel photography’..
harveys fascination with spain could not be covered from his back yard as your fascination with india can not be covered from yours.. my fascination with music could not.. and so on..
it is not photography for photographys sake, or for the market potential as ‘travel’ snapping could be..
maybe david is a historian.. perhaps you are a spiritualist, (atheist).. i spent years without knowing what the latest camera kit was – while knowing all i could about electronic music.. and drugs.
it does begin in our back yard – it has to – as it does for every celebrated snapper i’m sure.. sometimes it stays in the back yard and sometimes it evolves beyond.. none is better than another.. what i am trying to say is that it’s not india which is ‘cool’ or ‘uncool’, it is the purpose of the photography and the visual journey which results..
cuba is dull in most photographers hands..
pushkar camel fare.. sadhus.. poor people smiling.. poor people rendered in b&w..
tilllate.com is as formulaic as night-club photography gets..
without specific purpose and genuine interest – obsessive investigation both intellectually and visually – every subject on earth has the great potential to be dull as dishwater.
‘india’ is to big a subject to focus on, as you know
it’s much more interesting to do a macro study of the elephants balls than try to fit the whole animal in a single frame and things become a great deal easier when there is a focus of our passion.. balls or whatever.
whatever the focus – once it has been established and the theme is there, the vagueness disappears. my perception was that you were struggling with an initial subject and methods for distribution of the photos.. how to be a PJ if you like.. in which case i wanted to sway you away from humanitarian work because it would not be right.
it’s been interesting hearing about how you are planning your trip and sincerely good wishes for an excellent time.. despite the detractors of being a foreigner, all kinds of good work is to be done there if it is led by focus and a passion which is served, utterly.
utterly served..
primary focus, the point, and all that
:o)
David B
¨all kinds of good work is to be done there if it is led by focus and a passion which is served, utterly.¨
HURRAY! fine, fine words..and so true..it comes from the inside out, not the outside in..
best
Kathleen
“it comes from the inside out, not the outside in..”
BANG DEAD – (as stoop would say)
ya just KILLED it.
bo
O
(.. and kathleen – thanks for the wishes..)
DAVID B:
Damn, that was well put.
I find it interesting that in the midst of this discussion about how one should meticulously plan a photo project in India (or anywhere else outside of one’s own backyard) and particularly the need to have one’s intellectual act before shooting the poor or the otherwise disadvantaged, we get an essay from India that focuses on a mentally damaged woman that was the result of a guy walking around aimlessly for a couple days, yet no one brings any of that up in the context of the featured essay. What’s up with that?
I don’t mean to be a smartass, btw, and am not making any kind of comment about the essay in question. I’m just trying to figure out the mores of commentary here at Burn.
,,,,,,,,some of us don’t read the photographers statements, some are too busy with their own preconceived ideas, to some it isn’t important……. the India caper is a coincidence that’s Andreas soap box etc
Panos…
in light of the conversation going on here at burn, and Nikos’ quote
“I prefer to spend my time in my corner of the world: south Europe and west Asia, where I understand the codes and can make connections.”
perhaps you can ask him to speak about what challenges and limitations he feels he faces when he isn’t shooting “in his corner of the world” and what “understanding the codes” brings to his work.
michael – the trip to manali from bombay was to tackle a subject for a photography course..
i’d be much less vocal if the subject is from the same country and was the realization of a developing body of work by a photographer.
i’ve been speaking to andrea specifically because there seemed willingness to help and a vagueness about how to.
if there is real motivation, the photography is paramount.. rather than an afterthought once the route and method of transport is sorted.
the logistics of photographing tend to be central to a trip – dictating the route – and the method of travel is somewhat irrelevant..
one side effect of humanist photography is that people, including me in younger days, think that to turn in same, same, b&w photos from the majority world is in some way ‘helping’, regardless of planning or forethought towards that end.. training in journalism.. research of the market..
i mean – turning them in to who?
for what end?
i have a good friend who has written and photographed on invitation in india for charities and it’s because her work at home.. liverpool.. manchester.. shows a dedication which will carry over.. in short – she gets press.. getting press for the margins is her passion..
there is a tendency to condescend and objectify ‘da poor’, which is degrading to both the subject and photographers alike and while i apologize for being a little verbose and talking at great length i am quite happy to prod anyone with a stick if they want to photograph such subjects.. because i’ve been prodded with a stick constantly throughout my career to date :o)
without some intellectual input and prodding, where would any of us be?
as imants hinted earlier – and as the current essay shows – there is less and less need for euro-mericans to represent the people of the majority world, as plenty of passionate people in those countries are already doing a fine job..
those from over here who do want to do that work over there have to challenge themselves as to the motivation, in my view.. and ask why they are not already doing that kind of work at home..
Michael Webster,
Yes your comment is spot on. It’s all a very complicated and contradictory subject. Thanks for pointing out the absurdity of the debate.
David B
Thanks for your long and considered thoughts. I fear you make rather too many, too many, assumptions about me and extrapolate from what I’ve said to things I haven’t said. I obviously do not express myself very well, and I know this form of conversation leads to frequent misunderstandings and misreadings but I fear you project a lot of things onto me and my approach that aren’t quite right. However, I know I have still a lot to learn. It’s a process and I will make mistakes. I will transgress and I will produce pictures that may fall short. My trip is an equal combination of cycling and photography. Also i can’t travel without keeping a written diary. It is an inseparable recipe for me for the way I travel. None is the main aim, they are all are. I could travel without a camera and a dairy but it would be painful. I travel by bicycle because I find travelling by public transport doesn’t take me close enough to the culture. Without contacts you end up staying on the tourist route. I need to record my journeys. You use the word historian. That word fits most closely with ideas that I have for the thing that I know already I want to photography. I haven’t mentioned them because I would rather keep them close to my chest at this point but I would still love to do in-depth stories on little known subjects. Its probably not compatible with my trip and I am certainly at a disadvantage with language, and lack of pertinent education. See your suggestion about lining up contacts and buyers for my stories suggests photojournalistic know- how. I did meet a journalist at one point who told me to do this. But as I said, when I tried this I got answers such as “we are not using freelancers at hte moment” we already have photographers in India. And then I had a major personal crisis which threw me off my planning for many months this year. So if its seems my preparation is superficial and unplanned, then its because of these things – lack of know how and crisis. Also Australia is a very small market. With regard to the beggar story. I am surprised you bring that up again but perhaps you forgot the point of mentioning it in the first place. I know its hard to keep in mind all the details of people’s arguments in the posts. If my pictures end up looking superficial, its not for lack of trying or desire. It will only be for lack of ability.
Preston
Thank you for your excellent comment.
“Thanks for pointing out the absurdity of the debate.”
The debate, or discussion is not absurd. I am sure that people here, me included, are just trying to help and educate.
Michael: The featured essay is not a good measure of what is being discussed here. It is much easier to spend a couple of days with one person and come up with an essay than it is to spend the same time and come up with an essay about a culture. And as much as I like the essay, I can say that it probably would have been even better if the photographer has spent a month with the subject.
ANDREA: I think traveling by bike is an excellent idea. That and walking.
Intersting discussion.
Andrea, for me, the most intersting aspect of your planned trip is the fact that it will be by bicycle. I think it’s a wonderful opportunity to make your images unique.
You might consider creating at least a rudimentary script and shot-list, then shoot for the list. In my AV days I used to produce commercial and educational slide shows (real slides, pre-computer days.] This helps immensly. You obviously cannot script what and who you will encounter, but you can think about and plan what you hope to achieve. This can help avoid “holes” in the story later. It is also useful to plan images that anchor the series. For instance if it were me, I’d have a small tripod or clamp and set up shots of myself cycling in various circumstances, etc.
Just a suggestion.
BTW flash memory is so cheap these days and very large cards are availabe. By all means back up, but you could buy enough memory for a few hundred bucks so that you would not likely need to format and re-use your cards.
Have a wonderful time, post some photos now and then.
Andrea; “Also Australia is a very small market”
Have you really looked hard at the number of magazines produced in Australia? Also; Australia is exotic to the German, English, Dutch etc etc etc. all have English language magazines?
I once watched a couple of Dutch tourists frantically shooting a cattle sale here. To them it was as exotic as a Dutch flower auction, hash cafe etc would be to me! And don’t only think of “big” mags, there are many smaller mags that pay pretty good money for stories.
I write travel pieces for a Motorhome magazine, yet I’ve never travelled in one! Last two stories I sold them? One on sheep dog trials and the other on the competition sport shearing circuit. Hardly exotic 5 star Hawaii, but the pay is the same and they are always good fun to shoot. You gotta love that dry backcountry humour!!!
I love being in the backcountry so often hunt down stories while I’m there, but you also have to get as much bang for your buck out of the story. I was already going to the NZ Champ shearing so no extra costs for the story.
Take the dog trial story for example. One day shooting and a one hour interview (because it was their centennial trial). One “travel” story for the motorhome mag because many of the travellers are urban and love back country events. The other about the centennial for a farm mag. Also; photos for me to sell and for stock libraries. All of which I can sell in Oz, Germany, Switzerland, England because they flock here in their droves to drive our campervans!
Or shooting/writing a piece on a local Highland Games, not for a travel mag though, for a heritage mag. Same story, just a few more historical facts. All of which means I can afford to shoot my youth project for another couple of weeks!
I’m sure you could extrapolate those ideas to things/events/stories you are interested in. “Travel” stories are as much exotic India, Nepal etc as the little local museum just around the corner from you.
Just a few ideas.. Cheers
Back in Bucharest: http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/back-in-bucharest-4/
about exotic travel photographers …….. http://www.etrouko.com.au/imiimages.htm
………roll your mouse over the text
Is it too early for a little music?
Maybe this has shown up here before but it just came my way tonight. Before you click on the link, though, read this introduction:
Extraordinaire Instrument de Musique
All of the balls wind up in catcher cones. This incredible machine was built as a collaborative effort between the Robert M. Trammell Music Conservatory and the Sharon Wick School of Engineering at the University of Iowa. Amazingly, 97% of the machine’s components came from John Deere Industries and Irrigation Equipment of Bancroft, Iowa ….Yes, from farm equipment! It took the team a combined 13,029 hours of set-up, alignment, calibration, and tuning before filming this video. As you can see, it was well worth the effort. It is now on display in the Matthew Gerhard Alumni Hall at the University of Iowa and is already slated to be donated to the Smithsonian Institute.
but we have this http://www.snopes.com/photos/arts/musicmachine.asp
Groan, I just accidentally deleted a long post in response to Pete, Ross and Gordon. I haven’t the heart to rewrite it again.
But in brief thanks for your input all three of you. It was probably a good thing I lost it anyway. I feel I’ve gone on rather too much about my stuff and my trip.
The original Animusic animations are amazing, even though computer generated. Buy the DVD’s. Fascinating stuff.
Andrea; I hope my post didn’t come across as anti-travel because that wasn’t the intention. I was just responding to the “small market” comment. :-)
Cheers
No Ross, its fine. thanks for your input. Maybe next year I can pursue your approach further. It wasn’t something I could do this year in much depth for various reasons which I won’t go into. Australia is still a small market. I had a good conversation with an ex-freelance journalist a few months ago. The difference in fees between the northern hemisphere and the south was huge, according to her, as I found out when I tried to sell a story to a local cycling magazine about my last trip. $0.22 per word! Of course not all local magazines pay that badly here but there are plenty of people just waiting take whatever you’ve got and pay you almost nothing. Luckily for me, she set me right about a few things when dealing with editors. But before that I had been approaching newspapers, yes the travel section of newspapers. I also contacted a few foreign cycling magazines. I recall one had some interest and I could submit on spec but they had their stories planned already for the next two years!!
Patricia, even if its false, it was fascinating to watch.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/showcase-76/
WOW. friend at Lens.
what not to love?
Congrats everyone! :-))))))
MARCIN….
DOPE…. u da man
panos, what’s mean- u da man?
:-.
aaaa. ok I know now :)
:)))))))))))
it means = malaka, which means = i love u..
big hug y’all and good morning from the City of Moustaches…
:)
I love love love those funny white cows in the night. That was a wonderful strange essay. When I first saw it – it was the first essay I saw on burn – I wasn’t even sure what I was looking at. I thought it was something like the English artist – what’s his name? – Damien Hirst. I thought they were dead cows (somehow) made to appear to be doing weird and strange things. But it turned out they were real, weird cows. It made me want to go and sit in a cow paddock at night to see what I could see.
I’d love to see more of that girls work. I also love seeing the army man waltzing with the beauty queen in the chica barby essay. I love these two shots. *sigh* That army man is a picture worth a thousand words. Love it.
I see there are other wonderful things from Burn that were before my time. They are buried way down there somewhere in the archive.
That is a nice entry on LENS. Congratulations all.
David B, just logged on to see your extended posts. I would just like to say how brilliantly and thoughtfully put.A well communicated insight into the vague genre of “travel photography”, the issues, and moral dilemas that arise.
Excuse me while i keep this brief I am juggling a couple of sick kids, flue + sickness. Hope it wasn’t the dinner I cooked last night!
Civi I know, I know its just not good enough to abandon a debate :)
Ian
Ok it turns out there is a bug going round, alot of kids off school. Another pair of hands helping now.
In my badly communicated posts earlier, I was poorly trying to express: when I was younger and beginning to dabble in photography, I happened to be in Islamabad when a truck full of explosives was driven into the Rawalpindi munitions dump and detonated, I ran around like mad snapping away dodging shrapnel and hairaising traffic as everyone tried to head for the hills, total confusuion. The pics I got were one offs and probably sensational in their own right,I was really pleased with them. I also was in The BVI’s when hurricane Hugo wrecked it’s havock across the islands, same again, sensational one off shots (huge waves, yachts tossed way inland, houses blown to pieces) Same again I was really chuffed with them at the time.
This stuff was all new and exciting to me, it was really exciting in my own little world, only afterwards I realised on reflection and analysis, ok the shots were one offs and sensational to me (because I was there) but they have no depth of meaning or feeling because I didn’t have true grip of the circumstances. I snapping like a tourist. Since this realisation I have tried to become more involved with my subjects rather than snapping and always felt a slight negativity to projects I have taken on where I haven’t been able to build an empathy to a subject.
I tell you this because it would be great for you to come back from your trip with a set of pics that you are eternally happy with.
anyway it all depends on your point of view and the reasons you are doing something.
all the best
ian
Gee Aitken don’t you think you are judging yourself a bit harshly? Well, I haven’t seen the shots but if they were good then, aren’t they still good?
I love my shots from my last trip to India taken with my digital compact. And also my first india trip also taken with a compact. I took them just for myself and I wasn’t trying to prove anything. They are just pictures I was taking for myself, and with no project in mind, David. I don’t care if anyone here considers them mere snapshots. One shot I really like is technically dreadful, I still like it. It has a totally burnt out sky. I will post it on my album. The sunglasses are mine. I met these women when I was on the road. They were due to have a rest from carrying their large bundles of firewood (no shots of that) and they called out to me as I was riding past. I went over and the strong one picked up a big rock for me to sit on. We sat down for only about 15 minutes and had an exchange in our limited common language. I had a packet of biscuits and we shared those. There was a man standing around. After I took my pictures of the women, I asked him if he would take a picture of me with the women. They were much more comfortable with me than with him as you can see from the shots. I want to point out that I am not 6 foot tall, even though I look like a giant in the photo the man took. It’s just that the women are tiny. After they’d loaded up their bundles, they set off along the road home. I set off on my bike.
AndreaC,
Unfortunately, I think it is the same with many creatives, there is a constant sense of questioning/challenging to try and get to where you want to be, hence the perpetual portfolio updating, constant appraisal of approach to subject and also levels of self doubt.
cheers
ian
ALL BURNIANS.
ATTENTION ! ATTENTION ! ATTENTION ! ATTENTION ! ATTENTION ! ATTENTION ! ATTENTION ! ATTENTION !
We are planning an EVENT!
Anybody who is interested and has not gotten an email from me a couple of hours ago (yesterday for the most), please contact me directly for information at info(at)lassal(dot)de.
Thanks.
This goes to any BURNIAN with an available camera.
(I will repeat this post several time in the days to come)
Just in case this hasn’t been posted yet.
Congrats DAH, Anton and Burn… and all Burnians!!
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/showcase-76/
Oops. I see Haik beat me to it! ;^}
CONGRATS BURN!….
james feature looks wonderful and contains some of my fave moments (pictorially)….spoke with james this morning via email….
more good to come, keep your nose to the grindstone and celebrate each other and your work through the work
running
b
FABULOUS ARTICLE ON BURN!!!!! James Estrin did a great job of showing “the best of Burn” while also celebrating DAH whose “can-do” spirit and incredibly hard work keeps the flame alive. And special thanks to Anton without whose tech wizardry we wouldn’t be here at all…
Patricia
Thank you DAH for the can – do attitude…gotta believe and have High Hopes:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3419553340582027052&hl=en#
Wow wow wow, fantastic everyone!
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/showcase-76/
Thank you David and Anton and all Burnians
ANDREA C…
i was not offended at all, merely aware that you had not grasped the intent nor the genre nor the context of work……i am only suggesting to you , as i have prior, just to please do your homework in general…you may write here whatever you want, but when you make statements that clearly show you have not really studied the situation , then your validity is lost….the old adage, think before you speak , works….i do not consider my work “hard hitting” photojournalism, nor travel photography (heaven forbid) …my reasons for going to Cuba and for photographing the whole Iberian diaspora run deep and are explained clearly in the text of both Cuba and Divided Soul…
perhaps a skype call would serve us well…i am not really free to talk until around dec. 1, but would be very pleased to set up a dialogue with you…in this forum it is very easy to get confused about who said what in the context thereof…please remember, i have not been one to discourage your travels anywhere….and yes, India may indeed be your Cuba…but, if it is , then you do need to think way deeper than where you are i think…and if it is, then i will be the very first person to get on with helping you make it so…let’s please talk…many thanks….
cheers, david
one more bit of celebration of optimism
David,
Thanks ;)
Wow, just saw the story and the pictures on Lens Blog! That’s so nice! I feel proud to be a part of Burn.
David, wherever you are in the world right now, (I have no idea since I didn’t really have time follow what’s going on here lately) I hope you are having a good time and I am looking forward to skype with you as soon as you’re back..
Cheers from Berlin to all of you talented burnians!
Warning: Facebook and MySpace Strip Photo Copyright Data
http://www.pdnpulse.com/2009/11/warning-facebook-and-myspace-strip-photo-copyright-data.html
I guess you get what you pay for.
Ain’t that the truth.
BTW,like the sprinkler series on your site, Jim.
Fantastic to read the post on lens …!
Marcin
I am so in love with this photograph of yours … Good to see it in there. :-)
“BTW,like the sprinkler series on your site, Jim.”
Hey, thanks. Get a bunch of kids together and 30,000 gallons of water and it’s always fun! :)
Andrea; $0.22 per word!
Respectfully; welcome to the editorial world! I’ve been freelance (fulltime) for just over two years now and the going rate per word is usually around 30-40c per word. But it ranges from 20-50c in general. there is only one mag in NZ that pays 50 and that’s NZ Geographic. Everyone else is around 30c. So I’m not sure how much you are expecting to get paid…
As for spec submissions, when you’re unknown they work much better than query letters. Have confidence in your work and send in a completed piece. I’ve found that I usually get around 80% success that way.
Cheers
Congratulations BURNIANS …Viva LENS, Viva NEW YORK !!!
“When you do nothing, you feel overwhelmed and powerless. But when you get involved, you feel the sense of hope and accomplishment that comes from knowing you are working to make things better.”
That’s why we keep BURNing …
LOVE YOU BURNIANS…
P.S 5th Rabbit doing ok..the problem is not 5th anymore …
BUT life keeps rolling and I am rolling too…
Smile my friends and don’t forget your daily screaming…
I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER…keep it true and the green will come ( if is that what you are looking for )
ALL…
great meeting with NIKOS ECONOMOPOULOS
just finished…
second meeting in two days…
now…
let me download few photos and i will post in converses..
i will post link in a few…
Nikos did not want to do an online interview..
which i totally respect..
BUT… he answered ALL my questions ( 2 hours long )…
edited “venice”.. gave me amazing advice..
he also let me see the photos of his new book coming up..
still in editing process…
( just like DAH, he loves prints… he let me go through 500 prints 20*25 cm size…)
and i got permission to talk about everything freely in BURN..
no secrets…
no restrictions ( except of being live )…
the most amazing…he gave me a GIFT..
a signed book… very RARE edition…in TURKISH…
“BALKANLARDA”..( not just BALKANS )…
gimme a few.. and i will show u all that in photos..
( he even answered erica’s question…)
ok.. now im about to eat a plate of lentils..
( btw our conversation took place at Nikos’ house..over aged cheese and greek wine…)
stay tuned amigos…
he even let me swap lenses till saturday..
I will be shooting with his favorite Leica 35mm lens and he will be shooting with my
28mm Carl Zeiss…
( we also had a brief tech talk which i will of course share with all my lovely burnians here…)
ok..let me eat..coming right back..
( i still cant believe he let me into his new book coming soonest … i was part of his rough edit today..)
as u can tell im a little more than excited..
big hug
Panos; It sounds like the recent black cloud’s silver linings are beginning to appear for you now! Enjoy…
Cheers :-)
Ross…:))))))
ALL..
please check CONVERSES ROUGES NOW…
photos …of nikos , blah blah..
http://conversesrouges.com/
and if u wanna see Nikos’s photos higher rez…
check here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Nikos?authkey=Gv1sRgCL-35dbjprqv2QE#slideshow/5403342889140451298
hey y’all..
plz check CONVERSESROUGES.COM
two new nikos’ photos…
http://conversesrouges.com/
Panos
Checking shortly. You sound excited. Happy for you.
Ross
I’ve heard that $0.45 is more appropriate here but you can earn as much as $0.60. I might have accepted the $0.22 and even the 3 months global exclusivity on my pics for a first article but a personal crisis scotched the whole project. I had to drop everything for a few months.
David AH
My comment to Aitken was glib. Too glib. Again excuse me. In my comment above, in case you thought I meant you when I mention “David”, I mean David B because he had recently commented that I should have already got a project underway since this is my third visit to India. So I was clarifying that I had not started any project, was not even thinking of myself as a photographer at the time of my first two trips. My head was in a different space.
Thanks for the invitation to skype you. I can’t do it til i get back from India i think. I am leaving home tomorrow. But if I see an opportunity in an internet cafe over there, I will try.
Andrea..:)))
good luck in India…
remember…our very own burnian Vivek is
the new president there…
give him a hug if u see him
big hug
Panos,
Thanks for your good wishes. I don’t think I will see Vivek. Is he from Mumbai? My friend there has every second of my Mumbai time covered. I am totally at her mercy. A collar round my neck; on a leash. ;-) But I am not in contact with Vivek anyway.
I keep looking for more shots of you. Have you stopped already? I just looked at your Nikos pics. He’s got a nice room, hasn’t he. If I had that much stuff in my space, it’d be like a bomb site. I need a maid.
Panos
Just read your post above. You are going to have to learn Turkish. Teshakur edereem! ha ha. (spelling)
Andrea..:)))
u r right..
thats twillight zone…
all my grandfathers feras came true..
two greek guys talking in turkish..
surreal…
:)))))))))))0
typo: fears
greeks and turks…
OG hate..
think of the “bloods” and the “crips”
laughing
Andrea
I want to wish you the very best as you embark on your trip to India. I can´t even imagine the planning it has taken to get to this point. I hope your cycling is a breeze, your photography is inspired and the words practically leap out of your head onto the pages of your diary. This is big, BIG..go for it, enjoy and keep in touch with your fellow Burnians!
Safe travels, grrl..
Hugz
Kathleen
Andrea,
I CAN imagine the planning it’s taken…
I’m not leaving for India till January and already I’m walking around the house with various camera bags and suitcase configurations to see how I want to drag everything around for 5 weeks.
I’ll try to email you this evening.
DAH,
What’s the best way to show you work these days?
ALL.
Another big day for burn.
Featured on the Lens blog
and Lance on Verve.
Kickin’ ass.
–Panos!
So envious. Looks like a great visit. Very happy for you.
–Burnians, DAH…
Forgive me for posting this again, but I’ve added a few shots by Paul McDermott… a young man I met at the Fight Club (I believe he’s co-curator?) that same night. I really hate young talented punks like that! ;^] Great time! and thanks again David, Chris, AJ, Michael and everyone else there for tolerating all my running around!
http://www.michaelkircher.com/fotoweek_dc_2009.htm
Peace.
Can we measure this? Can we make mathematical simulation out of this? Can we create a visual simulation out of all that we are surrounded by? Can we calculate our sexual needs and our psychological obsessions. Why is that cockroach there? Why does it look interesting? I.m so Brooklyn, actually helsinki. Does it look interesting because it isn’t a bug anymore, but a photograph made together by all the Japanese photographers? Maybe the bug does not even exist, but only the photograph that I have in my mind about it. Bugs as photographs. Years ago I pretended to look cool by reading the Manifest and drinking red wine. Can we somehow define the years of John Major? Can we win, is our goal to win, are we winners? Why did that country disappear, did they loose the war, or a war? Who is James Buchanan? Why do I take images? Evil, pure and absolute. Game theory? Theory of photography, of all photography, of all photographs? Why am I loosing my capability to communicate with words? Can we define ourselves by economic models? Can that man shut his mouth? From rational violence to emotional altruism? Numbers, strangest of consequences. The elephants? The elephant in the room. A. Names. K. Community vibrancy index. Old forms of bureaucratic control. People are more complex than the bureaucrats thought. The relationship between me and my father. Perhaps all of this makes sense. This doesn’t make sense. Report after report. Strange world. Should I believe in these numbers? Is that my target? Am I controlled? Why a cold beer and not a glass of red wine? Why alone? Why chaos?
Rather a rude and indigested mass: A lifeless lump, unfashion’d, and unfram’d, Of jarring seeds; and justly chaos nam’d. No sun was lighted up, the world to view; No moon did yet her blunted horns renew: Nor yet was Earth suspended in the sky, Nor pois’d, did on her own foundations lye: Nor seas about the shores their arms had thrown; But earth, and air, and water, were in one. Thus air was void of light, and earth unstable, And water’s dark abyss unnavigable
In Greek myth, Chaos is the original dark void from which everything else appeared.
Mathematically, chaos means deterministic behaviour which is very sensitive to its initial conditions. In other words, infinitesimal perturbations of initial conditions for a chaotic dynamic system lead to large variations in behaviour.
Freedom of individuals, freedom to choose. Is there any fun in having the freedom to choose? To choose from that excrement, from those veins and those words, simple and stupid letters. Some chose to put different kinds of medicines soaked in water into their veins and some just put few coins into their throats like little gods, or puppies trying to be queens, or jesters and fools of tomorrow. Where’s the freedom in those actions? Coins and medicines and needles and then there’s those who live underground and have alternative ideas about money and how they should stop the relentless wheel of this life and possibly the next. 666 bitches! Reincarnation in my motherfucking asshole! They possibly yell, but of course one can not be sure as 1 is losing words, all words are replaced by images and photographs and even moving pictures so the words that are spoken sound like this: gggjjjjssskkkaaalllwwwllleeeuuueeeuuueeeppp?dddod. The question mark is there because not all the photographs or images can not be written with letters, or not even with dots and commas, which I personally thought few years ago to be the absolute truth of photography, but nope. Alternative ideas of freedom and seeing things? Why do I have a feeling that I’m being controlled? Why do I know that all that I see is in vain. Ideas, images and words of men and women whom I never knew. Ideas about happiness. Ideas about images, images about ideas.Yes, yes! He yelled, but didn’t dance, couldn’t dance, couldn’t even sing , or breathe. Couldn’t breathe, wouldn’t breathe as all that there was was the endless screaming. Only thing the man who knew everything about everything was screaming and yelling. He screamed with all his knowledge and irony and lethargy. Now how pathetic is that? Why disorder, dismay, delirium, chaos? Why not rhythm or harmony? Peace and freedom? Perhaps, but like Janis said freedom is just another word for having nothing left to loose. We’re surrounded by glass. I hate it.
maybe few beers too much
@ Panos
Your glory day! Excellent!! and a bit envious.
I think that you would stay for a long while in Grecolandia…
@Jukka
One, Mathematics is the language of nature.
Two, Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers.
Three: If you graph the numbers of any system, patterns emerge.
Therefore, there are patterns everywhere in nature.
From “PI, The movie”
Back from town to sort out the banking. Slurping coffee before I tackle the final packing onslaught. How many kilos overweight will my gear be? Will they charge me $50 per kilo over the limit or will they be kind to me and let me take the full 25kg. Will i have to take my tent out and leave it at home? 18 kilograms of bike and box doesn’t leave much room for shampoo and undies, t-shirts and sandals. Will i have to leave my tripod behind? Will I have to leave behind that inflatable mattress that a kind virtual friend sent me? What will they let me take on the plane?
Kathleen, yes it is huge for me. Travelling is always a big deal for me. I don’t get to go as often as I’d wish for. Thank you for your kind words. Cathy knows. If my trip ends in disaster due to theft of camera, laptop or bicycle, (it happens) or worse – I get run over by a lunatic bus driver (that happens too), I’ll let you know if I can. But fingers crossed, next time I drop in to Burn it’s only to say “click my link” for some pics. I know this sounds over-dramatic. It’s pre-trip nerves. Pre-trip is always a little nervy until the plane leaves the ground. It’s healthy. I am excited. I’m not expecting miracles with the results from this trip, but I am expecting to advance on what I’ve managed before.
Cathy keep in touch.
Jukka Omneal
Fascinating post. I’ve no idea what you are saying but I think i like it. It hints at everything, or a lot of things but gives nothing away.
Andrea C
when in mumbai you can reach me at 09320884596 ,,, seems you are well prepared fr the trip … but still you can give me a shout if you need anything ….
andrea –
“Thanks for pointing out the absurdity of the debate.”
!!!
well – have a nice holiday..
Michael K…
pAtrIcIO…
nothing to be “envious” about…i know u both mean it positive but…
let me put it this way…Nikos is an original master just as David Alan Harvey or
Salvador Dali…
Real… nothing flamboyant , nothing pretentious…
Nikos , honestly does not hold the big secrets of the universe… not having a
magic ball either…He confirmed things that in a way i already knew and i already heard from
DAH one million times…
such as authorship, find your own voice… do not try to please everyone… stay loose, stay
away from newspapers, travel magazines and cheap emotional stories… make a living as a
waiter if u have to , finance yourself, dont ask for favors, do not rush..
connect, connect..connect… learn yourself first,
accept yourself, dont copy the masters…photograph your soul.. respect, dont steal, give back…
A great one is not the one that tries to impress or the one with half knowledge…
Do not rush for books or exhibitions either… u can wait 20 years for a book if u have to…
relax, stay loose shoot…
then let it “sit” for a while.. then look at your work again with fresh. new eye…
Learn from yourself , find who u are..
Enjoy it, dont seek for quick victories and results…
and mainly decide who are and who u gonna be…
Dont be half artist and half salesman… very few can please both their soul ( and their peers )
and the newspaper at the same time…
its great if u can make a dollar through photography but usually its not the case…
Even Reuters will stop using real photographers soon… just give a digi to a journalist and
point and shoot… markets are changing/changed already..
Saddam Husseins’ hanging recorded on a blackberry..or iPhone..
thats part of the new era…
Art is not going away anytime soon… but things are getting a little harder for the artist photog to get the job…
No offense to our Jim here , but his photography sells better to the public than Nikos’..
good or bad,
who cares , its just the way it is… they dont Robert Capa anymore because we have tv’s…
but is everything so dark and scary…???
is photography dead??
NO, NOT AT ALL…
markets are rapidly changing but who cares…?
the human soul remains and the need to express oneself is as strong as ever..
so photography will only go away only if the human soul goes away…
Am i telling u anything new?
Did nikos said anything that new??
i dont think so, but he literally agrees and confirms DAH/magnum/master ideas..
now about ericas question about understanding the codes.. the answer , i think
u already guessed it…
shoot at the backyard ( of your soul )… the solution , the best photos are
“under your nose”..in your home, in your soul.. inside…
“i tried once to photograph in Japan”.. he said..” guess what..my photos sucked..
if u know what i mean…i didnt get the codes..”
and with the above “japan anecdote” i’ll let u go and i want to tell my friend Anton..
keep up the good work..connect…break and understand the codes and we all gonna benefit..
big hug amigos from the city of Moustaches ( athens greece )..
peace
( more to come )
andrea – read back and i cannot see where i have ‘projected’ my self onto you..
for your part, you wrote some glib statements which deserved debate and really needed to be addressed..
to withdraw from the discussion with the quote above is utterly absurd when people have been trying – firstly ben – to illustrate your lack of thought towards photography during this trip.
calling a debate like this – which has been going on for decades – ‘absurd’ betrays a lack of interest in journalism and photography.
sounds interesting panos..
anton is so very well on top of japan.. it’s great to watch.
d
Panos; You’re right; you don’t shoot with your eye to the viewfinder, but your heart. You can’t go wrong…
Been asked to shoot at a 16th birthday party tomorrow for the youth project. Have yet to find out whether parents etc will be around I hopr so); if not I will need a metal detector to find my way through the minefield… I’m a bit nervous about this one, it will either go really well or spectacularly wrong… Shooting under 18 year olds at home without parental supervision? I think not…
As an aside; had a great bit of role reversal today; Gave a mate of mine a Sex Pistols CD (live at the 76 club, a real early one). His 15 yearold daughter doesn’t like it because “You can’t understand the words” I’d love a dollar for everytime my dad said that to me when I was her age!! :-)
David..
i hope im not getting misunderstood…
trying to interpret nikos..i hate putting words
in other folks mouth… He was by no means criticizing
the straight “jim” approach… he was trying to say that:
“choose, stick with it and pay the price…either as a loose artist
with no bank account or as a straight hired gun “jim” with the corvette and the big house..
u cant really have it all…with Martin Parr as an exception – or one of the exceptions –
of course”
big hug for Martin Parr..
now i like him even more..
;)
.. because after all those years in LA i got corrupted myself..:)))
and i do love corvettes and mustangs and silicon boobies and fancy 5Ds’ and Leicas…
ahhh its so hard to find oneself nowadays…
im laughing ( at myself )
and to avoid another misunderstanding here..
big respect to all fellow PJ’s and newspaper photogs out there..
we all need to survive,…, pay the rent.. feed the kids..
NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT….
Ross..:))
u will have a blast in your shoot..
remember your teenage years..u been there…
listen to Sex Pistols in your ipod while going to shoot…
u’ll be their hero..
not their parent…
if kids wanna smoke or drink ..let them…
we all acted silly in those teenage years..
( some of us still do )
big hug
“if kids wanna smoke or drink ..let them…”
Yea; I’m not worried about that. I’m just not sure about shooting the 16 year olds at “their” house if parents not at home and don’t know I’m shooting… Anyone over 18, no worries.
The shoot is coming through from photographing a bunch of girls on Halloween night (they’re going to the party). They’re also happy for me to photograph them getting ready to go out, chilling at home etc which will make a nice counterpoint to the hard out party stuff I’ve been shooting.
Actually I’ve got the Pistols blaring out now (I Ain’t Your Steppin Stone!)!!!
The girls in #116 have sorted for me. http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/18440
ahhh Ross…
i hate getting old…
young and pretty (cant beat that)..
looking my beer belly in the mirror now…
fuck it..
im going back to see more of your photos..
big hug
VIVA JUKKA !!! what can I say…your words …such a chaos BUT I got it JUKKA…I connected …
hmmm…maybe few beers to much…
PANOS, BURNIANS…I am in tears…VIVA NIKOS, VIVA Universe !!!
BALKANLADRA …I have to admit …I read Baklavadia and I was thinking about the sweet baklavas …
hmmm…dyslexic me …hihihikikikk…
What a day in Paradise !!!
ANDREAC,
breath…when you will be back …one thing I know…you won’t be the same…
you… safe
Goodmorning ,Friday 13th…my super lucky day ….and Goodnight
I AM SO HAPPY cause I BURN next to you …
P.S I will be back …I am watching you …ALL of you …KATIE, MyGRACIE,DAVIDB,MICHAELK,HAIK,LASSAL,BOBBY.HERVE,OurPATRICIA,REIMAR,JUKKA,THODORIS,ANDREAC,CATHY,EMCD,JOHNY,JOHN,PETE,ROSSY,ANDREWB,VIVEK,PATRICIOM,JIM,IMANTS,AUDREY,MARCIN,KATHARINA,VALERY,ANNIE,KERRY,
MIKER,CHRIS,STELIOS,VASILIOS,MIKEB,3 RABBITS…ANTON,DAH…
Panos; Normally I wouldn’t include standard type “will you photograph us” type of pics, but I really liked their posing and the composition. To me it screams “look at us, we’re pretty and we know it” and their confidence in knowing they can pull it off.
The natural narcissism of youth I suppose. And I don’t mean narcissism in a bad way, but that today’s youth are much more image conscious than my generation ever was.
i agree…
its real.. real deal..
this is exactly how they feel..
this is exactly what u capture…
excellent…
in a case like this ,u either tell it like it is or u “manipulate” things according to your moral values
and hangups .. and u definitely
chose the “tell it like it is” approach…
All i can say is “bravo” and
Right On..
big hug
Panos,
thanks for posting all this, great to hear it’s going well and all bully to you for getting up and doing it.
“Dont be half artist and half salesman” love that, I have tried to do this, it just gets too confusing, the push and pull of artist and the push and pull commercialisation. Sometimes they can work together to great effect, but on the whole you end up in a quagmire of self doubt.
Cheers
Ian
Panos; My problem was that at their age I was a very unconvincing rebel… :-)
AND MORE…BURNIANS
AKAKY,CHARLES,ASHER,PRESTON,JOE,CHRIS B,LANCE,CHARLIEM,YOUNG TOM,STUPID,ERIC ESPINOSA,JOHN CLADDY,JONATHAN
JONATHAN JK,ANDREWS,SIDNEY,DAVID MCG,JAMESC,MARTINB,ZISKAR,BENKYUNGHEE,IAN,JONIK,GORDON,CHRISH,MEDFORD,
MICHAELC,MATT,MARK,JEREMY,MATT,VICTORC,ANGELO,JAN,JOHNL,JASON H,TIM,JUSTIN P,WROBERTANGEL,
JARED,ABELE ,SPACE COWBOY,
and ROSSY with few more beers …you still look very unconvincing indeed…:)))
GO out and BURN some pixels …
PANOS…I hope you ate some olives and sardines along the lentil soup…hmmm
OK…got to work …
BAKLAVA on the Greeks today !!!
I am so happy cause it’s Friday, I am so happy I can jump…
na,na,na…I am so happy…got to run,
cause I will be overdue …
don’t forget to DONATE and please try this at home :
SMILE,LAUGH and be happy cause you never know for how long …
VIVA MAESTRO
AITKEN,
I am sending good energy to the kids and some silents…hihihi…
“Humor helps us to think out of the box. The average child laughs about 400 times per day, the average adult laughs only 15 times per day. What happened to the other 385 laughs?”
CIVI,
I was listing to an interview with “happiness councellor” on the radio the otherday, he was saying exactly that, some adults have lost their ability to laugh, and dealing with these people you need to ttry and get them to remember the happiness from childhood, I suppose it’s abit like that FRIDAY FEELING…….. Yaaaaahooooo
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ny8gr/Off_the_Page_Im_H.A.P.P.Y./
Zipidi doo da zippity day
David B
‘“Thanks for pointing out the absurdity of the debate.” !!!’
This comment was not directed at you or any particular person. It was about the contradictions in the discussion of photographing the “Other”. I appreciate your input on the whole. I know you don’t know where you were projecting (did I say projecting? I thought I said making assumptions) but I haven’t got time to point it out now. Let’s just move on. peace!! Take care of you.
Vivek
Thanks for your number. I won’t call you on arrival because as I noted above, I am going to be on the run solid for the first few days until I land in Chennai. I will try to give you a buzz at the end if you like and if you are free I’ll take you for a beer/coffee/something like that. My shout because I owe a young man a drink.
David B
I read your second post after I posted the one above. Honestly it’s all too messy to unravel. I feel misunderstood. I expect you feel misunderstood too. I don’t think I can make myself understood. Trying to unravel the debate will only serve to dig myself deeper. I don’ think there’s anything to be gained by continuing the discussion.
Paaaanos!
Killer commentary/reporting. Thanks so much. I picked one line out of your comments: “they don’t Robert Capa anymore…” Totally stealing that!!
Your entire post, while it is familiar and understandable–many versions heard from DAH or Allard or Abell et al–but this one is good just to have and review periodically, just as a reminder. Muchas gracias!!
Love you man!
-M
Panos…
Please send me an email to tzalavras(at)gmail(dot)com
Panos,
Sounds like quite the adventure you’re having there in the home land. How things are going, perhaps you should just throw your return plane ticket in the trash!
It’s great you’ve been hanging out with Nikos. I have his Balkans book and went back and revisited the photographs when I read you were meeting him. He is one of the forgotten masters and his life is a model for us all. Yes, we continue to hear variations of what he told you, but it’s always good to be reminded that we all just have to keep our heads down and work work work.
I had the fortune of speaking briefly with John Berger on the telephone a few months ago, and his closing words were: “keep working!”
I have the pleasure of spending next week with John Cohen, so I’m sure I’ll hear it again from him too.
I hope you are photographing on the streets there?
Don’t stop!
Justin
AndreaC
please do not forget to send something in before you leave!!!
Anything will do – but leave your mark on the map. :-)
Gute Reise / Boa viagem!
Best
Lassal
this is for all my BURNIANS and the whole Universe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8o4os6Um6g&feature=related
Ray Charles – You Are My Sunshine LIVE
I’ll BURN back
Panos,
totally loved what you wrote … thanks for this!
Amazing how the same set of words can frame such different lives. You can apply them and still be free. You even have to be free to a certain degree to be able to apply them. Hmmm …
To use Civi’s words: what not to love!
Cheers, all,
L
kiddos im back…
yes im trying to do some street stuff..
lets see where it goes..
i’ll post when i’ll have couple photos..
so far after 7 days of shooting i only ( barely )
have 2 photos…that make sense..
i cant forget that the bar is already super-high over here..
Michaeeeeel…:)
one love..
Civi,Justin,Ian,Lassal…ALL
big hug…
i will meet again with nikos hopefully sunday and get some more
philosophies out..
anyway, thanks for the support…and i was afraid that im boring everybody..
with my endless repetition..
but as i said from the beginning..forgive me but i dont think there is anything
you ( we ) dont already know..
but its another thing to hear all that from a master..
( maybe my questions are boring… so again help me out with questions )..
the name from his new book will be ANATOLIA btw..
Thodoris i just hit u with email..
:)
http://conversesrouges.com/
check my self portrait on a nikos’ iconic photo..
click link above
:)
ok…
let me give u a tease with one photo from my greek adventure so far..
gimme one second to search the hard drive…
bare with me
“bare with me”
Is Panos calling for us all to get naked with him? Hope not…. (grin)
laughing..
whats up Pete..:)
ok.. here is one photo..
“from greece with love”
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Desktop?authkey=Gv1sRgCOzO17OUsLWrSw#5403586144975694242
or in conversitos…:))
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/11/13/from-greece-with-love/
ALL
If anybody want to help me edit a project I’m working please give me your e-mail adress and I can invite you to a photoshelter gallery.
Thanks.
Bare with me …BJARTE…I am gonna call them …
BURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSss…where are you BURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSSS
see, AKAKY came by and he scared them all away…hmmm…the messager
P.S I would LOVE to help you BUT I am drinking coffee with KATIE and LASSAL …
PETE, are you coming over ???
AITKEN,
thanks for the link…you British people , VIVA !!!
hmmm, why can’t i ever open conversesrouges anymore? bummer …
TOMAS,
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/11/13/from-greece-with-love/
maybe this link ???
if it’s not working…then no problem…mythos on PANOS tonight !!!
WHAT NOT TO LOVE …goodnightttttttttt BURN FotoSouls
A photojournalist with a DONATE button on his website. That doesn’t bode well for the future of photojournalism!
http://www.zoriah.com/
Jim; “A photojournalist with a DONATE button on his website. That doesn’t bode well for the future of photojournalism!”
I’m not so sure that it is a bad thing. Wasn’t Michael Yon one of the first to successfully use a donate feature on his website? http://www.michaelyon-online.com
For him it seemed to work well. He was providing “independent” reporting from Iraq and Afghanistan which his audience wanted. And they seemed happy to put their money where there mouth is.
So I think it is an interesting and maybe a viable way for some people to work. Especially now with newspapers and mags preferring to use wire pics from imbedded photographer to cut costs.
The days are gone when newspapers would send a photographer off overseas to do an in-depth story e.g. Don McCullin in the 60’s and 70’s. It only seems to be the NY Times and very few others who are prepared to send their own people.
I think I’d prefer to donate to a photographer who was working independently than for a paper which may have a hidden agenda. Even out here the major dailies all have either a right or left wing slant. Of course; so can an independent photographer! But at least “you” have complete control of your work. It’s not used to illustrate a paper/magazine’s hidden or not so hidden agenda!
Also; newspapers seem to have been dumbed down too. Take our local rag for example. A circulation of around 60,000 (readership around 110,000) and usually only a maximum of 1-1 ½ pages of international news, compared to 7 pages of sport.
Cheers.
International news belongs to the web these days. Newspapers of all sizes are trying to go “hyper-local” to maintain circulation.
a landscape for Civi … HERE … Celilo Lake on the Columbia River. Almost my backyard … listening to the echo … welcome to the machine. Time out over.
Celilo Falls was the sixth largest cascade in the world and credited as the site of the longest continuously inhabited settlement on the North American continent until the gates on The Dalles dam were closed in 1957. The falls and the Native American settlement, which had existed there in various configurations for 15,000 years, were flooded and Celilo Lake was formed. Cheap power was created to fuel the enormous power demands of aluminum plants, plutonium production for nuclear weapons at nearby Hanford Nuclear Reservation, and growing western cities. The Columbia River system is the most developed hydroelectric generating system in the world with over 400 dams supplying power from San Diego to Canada. It is also the largest reclamation project in the U.S. providing irrigation to the plains desert region east of the Cascade Mountains. The Columbia is a machine.
Cheap hydroelectric power remains attractive in the new world. Google invested an estimated $600 million in the city of The Dalles within the last several years to build two massive data centers overlooking the site of Celilo Falls.
Wyam is the Native American word for Celilo Falls. One translation of the word is “echo of falling water.”
Panos, Civi says you owe me a Mythos … Haik, did you ban my IP at conversesrouges? ;-))
Tom Hyde !!!
Conversesrouges is under some sort of DNS error. I am working on it…..
Many people can’t see it.
In the meantime, you can see it via proxy. hidemyass.com is the “preferred” one :)
Tom – :)
DNS errors are clouding conversesrouges. Talking to support. I can’t see it from where i am as well.
use a proxy in the meantime. hidemya$$.com – no dollar signs :). that thing works.
tom …wait..wait..
dont go away…
gimme a sec
http://conversesrouges.com/
mythoooooooooooooooooooooooooooos for tom
this is live… just came back from Plaka Acropolis…
now if u cant open conversitos rougitos gimme one more second..
BURNIANS
hidemya@@.com and then type http://conversesrouges.com for Tom’s Mythos
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif14?authkey=Gv1sRgCKKc6rCj9I3fNA#slideshow/5403689429352150354
ok….dont get fooled here…
first photo for TOM HYDE & YOUNG TOM…
Now the rest…super explicit from VENICE BEACH…
DO NOT OPEN IN FRONT OF KIDS….
AKAKY DO NOT OPEN IN THE OFFICE..
big hug from the city of Moustaches…
( and lets be honest.. lets admit it.. yes indeed , unfortunately Socrates was a pedophile…)
big hug
Mythos!!!! you guys are too cool … haik, that worked!, great to see a photo of Nikos, love his work … makes me want to finally get an m6 … i have only training wheels right now. peace ;))
see you rooftop at attalos … someday maybe
“echo of falling water.”
What not to love, what not to BURN, what to BURN for,
oime…JIMMY …we are the new echo …we are the news …ROSSY made me …think.
PANOS is drinking ouzo somewhere near Akropolis, HAIK is looking for lost hard drives,
TOM is getting an m6 .m9 or something like that…
I am calling the Universe for more BURNIANS and Sponsors and Visual lovers …
and I can hear my echooooooooooo
BURN is the place to Be
P.S come on BURNIANS… DONATE…let’s circulate some goods around…
olive oil (organic), eggs…etc,etc
FOCUS Civilian, focus…
PANOS is drinking mythos…I am drinking ouzo…
I better watch out what I am suggesting …hmmm…
I BURN , You BURN
go shoot for BURN
Cheerios
CATHY…
you are welcome to to show me work either by private email with a link or as a submission to Burn…i must say i probably will have no time to view anything other than Burn submissions until around December 1….in any case, i look forward to your latest work….
cheers, david
ANDREA C….
please hook up with Vivek if you get to Mumbai…he will help you in earnest….a very good man indeed…
cheers, david
IMANTS
this site has your name on it..warning..not all the links work..but..the ones that do..oh my..
http://www.kesselskramerpublishing.com/
best
kathleen
Imintresting
Hey Firecrackers,
Not to interrupt the flow of the conversation going, but the 37th frame just published an essay I recently did, and I’m excited and I thought I’d share with you lovely mates:
http://www.the37thframe.org/
pip pip!
Blown highlights, contrasty B&W and bad color. Very “modern” looking.
I forgot to mention it is a photo slideshow that if you scroll down you can check out (link a the bottom of the website: http://www.the37thframe.org/2009/11/13/life-and-death-κρήτη-by-vasilios-sfinarolakis/ ; Thanks for the prompt advice!
-Vas
Thanks David.
Today…It’s all about football
when I was young and strong I used to play football …I had dreams…. but I had to wake up early
In Greece ,when we talk about football…it’s the soccer …yeap, we never, ever call the football soccer
hmmm….just to clarify …
Well, my KATIE …what a link…OH MY !!! OH MY !!! love you street fighter
wake up DAVIDB and smell the rain cause MyGracie is shooting mint ice-cream
VASILIOS…congratulations… tsikoudia on you today !!!
P.S I am gonna be out of the BURN house for few days…but I will be back
I BURN, We BURN
go shoot for BURN
grecolandia
grecolandiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…
ALL…
WALKING AROUND GRECOLANDIA..
for two weeks now…
going from a little town’
to a bigger town…
shooting the randomn..
just a slideshow…
to see what i saw..
the best way actually
to figure out what i missed..
Anyway…
enjoy or not…
from acropolis to arta..
from here to there
and from there to here…
below is
THE LINK
i repeat
THE LINK
i repeat
THE LINK..
WITH LOVE FROM me to
YOU…
ladies and gents.. welcome to my world..
and it goes like this..
open a Mythos beer mix it up with a little bit of ouzo..
and …here it is:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIFTIFS?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLn1qnSp-S2Iw#slideshow/5403918390490232146
I have a new blog that I will update with a photo from time to time. Check it out at http://www.martinbrink.blogspot.com
Cheers,
Martin
Martin:)
loved the cat..
great
Panos, those are some great photos. Whether you are shooting in Venice Beach or Greece, your unique style always comes through.
Let’s see this essay on Burn. The artist’s statement wouldn’t be full of crap “I’m saving the world” BS, I would guess. :)
Hell, BURN has a donate button of sorts. Can we say “Paid Content”??? Let the migration begin!!!
Thanks Panos. I had a look at your shots and out of all of them there really are some keepers. I’m looking forward to see more and maybe this will actually be stronger then your Venice work..
Oh my, agreeing with Jim again… Some very nice shots, Panos. I love how you do the unexpected with the focus.
“International news belongs to the web these days. Newspapers of all sizes are trying to go “hyper-local” to maintain circulation.”
Guess it depends in which part of the planet you’re living, here that’s not true.. yet..
Thank u All…
:)))
Jim thanks …
and lets make it clear…
no im not “here” so save greece..
not that this decadent place can be saved..
but…SHAVED…yes..
that i would do..
i would shave every motherfucking Moustache i see..
i hate moustaches…
im allergic to hairy faces..( macho hairy faces- men & women )..
someone plz Shave greece..
:))))))))
… and to be more specific and fair..
mustache with a groomed beard i get it..
but mustache alone????????????????????????????????????????????????
Panos
Mustache alone is funky! But my mustache never turns dark, just white and almost invisible hair. No point of growing it.
I love 43, ‘Sky in Athens’. I would also like to see this on burn, but with a tighter edit.
Martin
I’m now following your blog. Took a look at your site as well, does your book ‘The Daily Round’ consist of both part I and II? If not, I think you should definitely try to combine them, there was interesting stuff in both edits and it looks like they can work together fine.
Bjarte…
u know im exaggerating ..
im just angry with the greek fashion ..
thats all..
:)))
Thanks Bjarte. The book only consists of part I. I made that book in a small edition mostly for fun and it’s probably more of an artist book than a “book book”. Everything doesn’t have to be over-considered and perfect all the time.
I might combine the two in a future book, but only if a publisher would show any interest. Self publishing is too much work, but it’s fun! You are right in that they could work together.
Cheers,
Martin
Panos
Maybe greek men should get inspired by these guys…
http://www.worldbeardchampionships.com/
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Martin
Definitely try to find a publisher for it! Are there any potential ones in Sweden you have in sight? There is a Norwegian one called ‘Forlaget Press’ (http://www.fpress.no/) that has released some good photography, documentary especially. Your style could suit their catalog. But I think they would want some text to go along with the photos.
Bjarte,
Thanks! Will check it out.
Yes, there are a couple of potential ones in Sweden, but at the same time I realize that it maybe isn’t the easiest project to publish.
Panos, how can you make me homesick for a place that has never been my home? Strange. Recognized several places, very cool. i want greek coffee all of a sudden, and that is very weird. thanks again for the mythos :))
Young Tom,
Next time i’m in Seattle in february i’d think, I am bringing some coffee to go a la greek style( or turkish, or armenian ). I got a see you in flesh, man.
Panos – gems in those photos/bags.
Vasilios – congrats on the essay. nice it is.
Greek invasion :-)
Nice, Panos…
You’ve got some very good ones there.
As for Greek invasion, I’m almost done working on a small piece too… will post a link as soon as I’ll upload it on my site…
Haik, yeah man let me know. sounds good.
Shoot. I knew there was a burnian that’s in Seattle….I was just out there and didn’t ask….
ok, next time. Maybe I’d even come back with a print of that rooftop shot I love….
;)
good light, all.
A.
Shoot. I knew there was a burnian that’s in Seattle….I was just out there and didn’t ask….
ok, next time. Maybe I’d even come back with a print of that rooftop shot I love….
;)
good light, all.
A.
PANOS…
nice new work from Greece…yes, let’s take a look at this for an essay even though a few will have seen it here on your link….i have missed quite a few comments, so i do not know when/if you return to L.A…in any case, maybe we can skype on monday for a few minutes? now in Mexico and i will be off to Tokyo and Bangkok for a few days, so monday is my only possibility until dec. 1 more or less….big hugs to you and to your family….
YOUNG TOM…
when are you showing up obx?? waiting for you amigo….
HAIK…
have some major things to discuss with you regarding tech ops….will send you an email with details etc. etc…
ANDREW B…
welcome back …where have you been???
cheers, david
DAVID
great to see you in oaxaca..what a wonderful group of people that you were, in the perfect environment!
I would love to show you and all the people here what I was doing..I will be able to provide a link to it soon.
ciao!
Here’s an interesting link. David Burnett discusses how he covered the Iranian revolution:
http://www.slate.com/id/2234851/
Andrew B. … you just might :)) I live a few hours from Seattle but make it up there with every excuse I can get.
David, i don’t know … after the holidays it would seem at this point when the gray skies send me running for the door … part of OBX is Hyde County after all … do you think they would mind if I borrowed a sign?
David A H,
have been around, not commenting as much but reading….following with great interest our many successes….Lance, Patricia, Panos, Sean….some I’m sure I’ve forgotten to mention. And of course the honors earned by burn (and of course you and Anton) as well. Our little house party is growing prestigious, indeed!
I’ve been traveling quite a bit with work, trying to shoot when I do that, and learning it’s hard to shift gears into the relaxed creative observant mode necessary, especially after a long day of technical meetings and interviews…..but getting better at it, learning to make the time and go out and shoot no matter how I feel at the beginning, and realizing that after a few minutes or more I slip into gear…and doing that makes the next time that much easier.
I hope to see you in Miami in January for the workshop…would like and appreciate it much to chat with you briefly about that soon, either via email or skype. I know you mentioned to others you are busy until early december, but perhaps then…this will be a big step for me…and want to make sure it’s the right one and to make the most of it, and of course to be as prepared as possible…
tom hyde, will most definitely let you know next time I’m out on the west coast….and if you happen to ever pass through the bluegrass of Kentucky or nearby, please let me know….I am quite serious about that print…will try and find your email perhaps we can chat on that.
All…
beautiful fall light here…spring down under…..burnians everywhere should be shooting!
good light all,
A.
ANDREW B…
thanks for the update and your comments…i know well you are in a balancing act….i will be pleased to speak with you early december..or, perhaps on monday, my one free day at home….in any case, nice to read you again here….take good care…
FRANCESCO…
it was a nice surprise to run into you in Oaxaca…..we will look forward to your link soonest…
YOUNG TOM…
hey, isn’t it time we ran another YT single?? you are the only singles shooter we have around here…hardly anybody submits singles and we are awash in essays…why do you think that is?
cheers, david
David,
I am not traveling next week and working from home (as is the case when not traveling). Monday would be wonderfully perfect- I have skype, name your time (or general time) and I can be there.
best, andrew
DAH – just checked my schedule for Monday, only time I am not available is 1:00-2:00 eastern…
Alright! Andrew B. representing Kentucky! (sorry, can’t do a “representin” 859 with you like an OG rapper, cuz I’m in tha 606 area code… :-)
Panos, thank you for sharing your Greece photos; I think I’m like them more than your Venice work! Who is the “beauty”? Your niece?
David, because they know where it’s at …
All I know is: Hyde is hiding in Hyde county 2 hours from Seattle where tubleweed is …
Spammed Cheers
As long as it is NOT Tyles county :).
Jim Powers?
Sent you an email on your mysterous email. Please respond. I love you.
you are the only singles shooter we have around here…
—————————————
Hardly, but never mind, talking about this, I thought about you a couple days ago, just as I walked past the BASSIN DES TUILERIES…. ;-)
DAH…
Whatever happened to the slideshow about the book making workshop? (no pressure, just a reminder…)
My impression is that tomorrow is pulling at Harvey so hard that he doesn’t even have time for the now, much less yesterday (book making work shop).
kitty Cliche is so not cliche and I think is the strongest photo of the batch, and I love it.
emcd,
since when did ‘subject out of focus’ pictures become strong. no offense really– i dont know much.
panos, on these expeditions do you just use one lens and just get in everybody’s faces??
i like the panostyle.
hi haik
Gracie..
( hi everyone im back )
i only use a 28mm …
i never carry second body or a second lens…
so i walk a lot…
and i mean a lot…
im happy today… 6 hours shooting and walking non stop..
and later around midnight im invited to go to an anarchists party in
an abandoned villa around downtown athens…
but the light was perfect today…
i mean really perfect…
link soonest
:)
big hug
“…emcd,
since when did ’subject out of focus’ pictures become strong….”
Gracie i dont know if u r talking about “my kitty” but if u
are ..:) ..then why u say its out of focus?
i dont really get it…!!!
peace
DAH
Did you see my last photoshelter gallery invite? “BURNED”
Under “movies” at DAH’s other site… the Nat Geo clip doesn’t seem to want to load for me. Anyone else have this problem?
Thanks.
http://www.davidalanharvey.com/
DAVID,
Honestly, the singles is what I’ve enjoyed the most here, but I figured you decided to focus on essays a while ago instead, as almost no singles were published.
I tried to access the movie with both the MAC and PC, using Safari, Firefox and IE. Won’t load with any of them. He must have a problem.
It would be interesting to see an essay evolve one single at a time … essentially a serialized body of work on a central theme presented as it progresses over the span of years.
I think the linear nature of a blog really limits how much can be shown. With a regular website, you could have essays in one area, singles in another, etc. I suspect that neither Anton nor DAH have time to develop a true web site, though. WordPress is great, but has real limitations for this kind of thing.
There is no limitation with wordpress. The theme should be designed differently to showcase more work. There are a bunch of good “magazine” style themes out there. I use one for The37thframe.org. A version of that one on American-journal.org and just redid my portfolio site with a good theme that could easily be used in a magazine format also. http://www.petemarovichimages.com.
Jim, all interested.
Wordpress is not linear. Nor it is strictly chronological. It can handle parallel streams of posts.
“True website”? What would that be? Not a blog?
Wordpress and any other blog/cms platform is simply a collection of code in one interpreted language or another to store, retreive, and present data that is stored in a database following the rules of how the data is stored.
To be more specific, wordpress allows simple (not necessary with code changes) customizations to display one category on one page and another on the other. WordPress isn’t for OMG kids – it can be serious for a “true website”. There are many sites that are on wordpress. The only disadvantage of wp is it’s scaling when load is high.
Yes, I understand what WordPress is. Been using it for years with several themes. But it’s still a kludge if you are looking for scalability, which I don’t think was a consideration when creating Burn. I think it was just the quickest solution for getting on the web at the time. Taking the time to develop a site with a more robust CMS – I have extensive experience with Joomla, but there are several good ones – would probably be more forward looking than building on the WordPress platform. IMHO, of course.
Joomla is no better than wp in scalability. You probably wanted to say Drupal.
when I say high load, I mean 5k-10K visitors a minute – if you go as high as that things get a bit more than the chosen platform be it scalable or not. The first consideration is to create static pages such that it eliminates php processor and database queries. It happens to be drupal has it built in and wp does not. BTW, drupal makes more database queries than wp. That should have made drupal less scalable, don’t you think?
In short, WordPress is not a limiting factor for BURN and when it might – there are simple optimization solutions. But Anton can worry about that when we dominate the world in near future.
Now we are a tech site. Next on the agenda are zoom-zoom lenses.
hi haik
so panos, your kitty wasnt blurry? i took my glasses off and put the contacts in and took the contacts off and put the readers on… hmmm.. i dont get it.
so jimpowers, i fotographed the blood and gory of extremefight club MMA last night and my popcorn and the hotdogs in a barn?? and it was 30 degreees inside… and my son’s ‘mary had a little lamb’ classical recital… guess im not trying to save the world but living my life… you should be happy with that. what are you shooting these days?
Gracie
i’ve been trying to get in touch with you – would you please, please drop me a line at info(at)lassal(dot)de?
It is kinda important :-))
Thanks …
Hi Gracie
Kitty is blurry?
Hi Haik :-))
I love the kitty as is … :-)
Blurry kitties are called froufrous. Just ask Audrey. She is a froufrou specialist representing whole France.
We need a civilian opinion to reach a verdict.
Gracie… no no…
kitty is blurry..but the photo is not..
look at background…is sharp…so the photo is not actually blurry…
big hug..
so Gracie i do agree with u..
sorry for misunderstanding…
i thought u said photo was blurry..
( but u were only talking about part of photo-just the kitty ..)
my bad
big hug
holla haiko
Lassal…
i want to admit in public ,
that im infatuated with you…
if we were in the first grade in
school i would bring you a rose…
:))
but we are not… so we are all safe…
anyway.. music anyone?
Panos; “if we were in the first grade in school i would bring you a rose… :))”
In first grade you would have probably said “ooh yuck, girls” ! A different story though when you were closer to 10,11, or 12. By then probably “ooh yum, girls” :-)
panos… yes please…
im sick of clair de lune and trying to play it whilst kids think it was composed for the vampires and the twilight saga movie… play something … ermm… KITTY!
“Blurry kitties…” So that’s what the kids are calling it nowadays!!
HELL, yeaaaaaaaaaaaa….!!!
come on BURNIANS bring the roses and the cactus, the azaleas,the daisies ,don’t forget some broccoli cauliflowers and artichokes…
Go out and pollinate …hmmm, if there is no one available …you can always self pollinate …
VIVA BURN ,VIVA BURNIANS.
the music please …
and BURNIANS,
I have to admit in public
I am infatuate with you…ALL of YOU !!!
(sorry PANOS, I just copy and paste)
P.S KATIE,street fighter, DAVIDB…etc,etc,etc…I will be back …
TODAY WE POLLINATE !!!
Haik, I think Burn is a little too boutique to worry about scaling to the point to need load balancing hardware. :) Having said that, there are major web sites running on Joomla. Joomla 1.5 has substantially solved problems of scalability, though, making it much easier to load balance across multiple servers than 1.x did.
I’m thinking more of overall operation. But I’m not sure that’s really DAH’s goal. I have a feeling it will remain pretty much like it is.
Hi Justin. I have an email from you I think? I know you are nearby, we need to connect.
Hi Haik. converses rouges is rolling :)
Hi Panos. no email to you yet but did trade a few emails with Chris & Jaime @ momenta…think I’m gonna do the thing in Miami.
Hi Gracie. where have you been? it’s nice to see you again…..missed the late night ramblings!
Hi Jim. how goes the empty public spaces project?
Hi Young Tom. did you recently change your web site? If not, there is someone else I need to find – they were using free software that looked like I could manage….
CIVI! no hi, just big hugs.
The useless bit of trivia for the day: 99.8% of the world’s bourbon is distilled within 50 miles of my house.
good light all!
A.
ANDREWB,
so many BURNIANS in Greece… ouzo is running clear …come over, I know you know
the spirit is in you and it’s in your blood …the clock is ticking :)))
P.S MyGRACIE,yes, the cat is fuzzy…it’s because of a teardrop on the lenses
Tonight let’s PARTY and be HAPPY…
cause we are BURNIANS and we deserve it
cause we are beautiful
inside out
and JIMMY…I LOVE your feeling…VIVA
it’s late in Grecoland …
I LOVE YOU…just for the shake of it …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoaTl7IcFs8
L O L
hi andrewb
ive just been reading, not writing… always checking…
im afraid the diet soda you left has gone a little less fizzy… not fuzzy.
all.. let’s….. i can pop some popcorn and put extra butter and ranch preservative free powder
and let’s get lazy…
show some music panos — this is your cue. meow!!
Love Oime Love ~~~ LOL
one sheep, two sheeps…
Pop the corn, Gracie…and I left a diet soda and a treat for you over at converses rouge…
now we need music!
Panos,
you’re sweet. A greek rose …
What not to love!
Good night from Germany,
Lassal
(everybody busy PLEASE – I need minds working, thinking … being creative … shutters clicking – clock is ticking … should not stop – will not stop … what not to love?! Civi, I wish you would join … Panos: HELP!)
C’mon CIVI, join in! I’m a civilian, too – tryin’ to not let that stop me, though :-)
Andrew B.: I may have sent you an e-mail but can’t remember; must be that Scotch I’m drinking tonight. (I know, I know, heresy for a Kentucky boy – but I do prefer Bourbon on most occasions ;-) I’m a bit down US 27 in Somerset. Clicked your link, but I’m not on Lightstalkers. Maybe you could shoot me an e-mail so I can have your address: jmikelsmith [at] gmail.com
ALL…
quick but important question: who among you can handle video and audio capture??
i might have a client who would need two or three photographers , with their own video equipment, who could get locked in to an American family for up to ten days..again, both video and still required…this is still in the planning stages and no promises yet, but good ideas and good people skills and good video skills needed…this is potentially a nice paying job coming through one of the U.S. top ad agencies…
please contact me by private email soonest…david@burnmagazine.org….
cheers, david
DAH,
I’ll wait for your email on tech stuff. I’m ready when you are.
JIM…HAIK..
we are looking at Drupal of course…and some custom designers….i would love to get both of you in the same room at the same time to see where this should go…i am up for whatever works best…i do know that right now we can do even more with WP than we are doing…just a matter of having the people to do it…i will have this december another Burn meeting at my loft, or perhaps in another location as well, for a meeting of the minds….i think Burn launched dec. 21 just a few days after such a meeting…input from both of you will be taken with gratitude in lieu of money, although money is exactly what i want in order to hopefully pay photographers who are published here on Burn and commissions as well…i have said this all along and still have not found the best way to do it…and i may never be able to pull this off..however, my efforts continue as i think you both know….even the fact that a top ad agency would come to me to find potential photographers to pull of a package deal is interesting in and of itself…but, no no no , i do not want to become an agency….packaging yes, agenting no…
many thanks for thinking…even if nothing happens with Burn except what has already happened, i think we can all be proud to have made some kind of mark in netland…you may not see it or feel it the way i do as i travel around, but we have definitely opened some eyes and many want to join us..and many others want to kill us!! the ultimate flattery!!
cheers, david
David, brilliant, good for you, securing interest of a major agency. There is alot of talent coming out of Burn. I am sure you will find a couple who fit the bill.
cheers
Ian
MR.HARVEY ,
we have made some kind of mark in the Universe…and yes BURN will keep evolving cause we are a rolling
tumbleweed on FIRE !!!
P.S I have good people skills and I can cook, change tires, wash cars, do nails…hihihi…BUT I have no clue about video and stills …therefore I ain’t gonna make it :)))
VIVA
Well, David.
I’ve not been involved in the media or other web sites, so I’ll preface this with, “I don’t really know what I ‘m talking about” other than to say I feel, in all humbleness, I have an eye for quality and sincerity, so therefore feel fairly confident that a community such as this, will inevitably draw the most interesting and dedicated. So why wouldn’t other’s recognize this as I do and want to be on board.
Just wish I could be part of the action.
continue to look with interest..
LASSAL,
I want to join in…JUSTIN where are you in the Universe? are you Civilian like me ?
DO you LOVE the visual stimulation ? are you a wannabe Fotophilosopher?
what shall I do ? I WANNA JOIN IN !!!
…MR.DAH, you are really the Ultimate BURNIAN…
that’s the Ultimate Flattery…per me !!! call Socrates !!!
Be U Right Now…or Best Use Raw Negatives = BURN
Ok …I just BURNED my last brain cells
BURNIAAANS
All…
One of my project ideas—the biggest and most overwhelming one—is inspired by Smith’s “Pittsburgh project,” only instead of a city, mine is about a country!
(ok, to be fair, Pittsburgh’s metropolitan area is bigger than the whole of Cyprus…)
My working model for this project has been to collect/shoot seemingly unrelated smaller projects/essays (and even a few singles) that—at some distant point in time—will be edited together and will play the role of the small details which make up the big picture—kind of like the digits of a mosaic.
I’ve just completed editing and sequencing another installment. This one is about a traditional Cypriot sweet called palouze.
Please check it out here:
http://www.tzalavras.com/Palouze_htm/Palouze_Main.html
CIVI …
:-)))) Yeeeahhh!! Thank UUU!
I know you do not like to write emails, but drop me a line so I can get you in. Or … talk to Thodoris and/or Panos.
Big hug,
drowsy but happy Lassal
EMCD…
Thanks for your response (re: Dmitri’s soccer essay). Yes, I agree that as an essayist a photographer shouldn’t be hidebound by ‘objectivity’, and should bring a point of view. In Dmitri’s case, though, my feeling is that the technique overpowered the subject matter.
Years ago I saw a good talk at the ICP by Greg Heisler – he talked about not knowing what a “Greg Heisler photograph” actually WAS for many years, as he had a very extensive quiver of tools and techniques, and he’d let the assignment drive his decision as to how/what to use for each story. Granted, he’s very commercial and I’m sure there was lurking creative director behind many of the decisions. But after ten years or so, when faced with the prospect of a retrospective, he looked at his work and voila – there WAS, in fact, a “Greg Heisler” sensibility and thread that ran through all the work.
Regarding your observation that some of the cumulative knowledge might actually be generational – that’s EXACTLY what my wife said when I first posted. So point definitely taken. I have a tendency to assume, though, that each successive generation somehow osmotically absorbs much of what previous generations have struggled to lay down, and use this as the base for THEIR creativity and innovation. (And to those who don’t know Daido Moriyama’s work – get thee to a bookstore post haste. Also, check out an Aperture book called “Black Sun” featuring 4 great Japanese photographers, DM among them).
BTW – is this the right place to be posting? Given that there are thousands of posts in this thread, I wonder if you’ll ever actually see this!
Jon-Marc, this is the place. Harvey usually lets these topics go on WAY to long ;)
….Losangelitis???…ahhh ..im just trying to keep me busy…
Haik..
the last week athens treats me like
a celebrity.. because of burn of course…
tomorrow a major newspaper will interview me..
they also bring a photographer..
yes u heard me well.. to photograph me..!!!????
who! me? the ex homeless from LA…
Yesterday a major concert/club they asked me to photograph
a major norwegian heavy metal band…
Even the other photogs gave respect..
opened the way for me.. brought me drinks..
food ..even groupies…
then they took me to an after hours club/party
that treat me like a rock star..
just by mentioning Burn doors open…
people are warm, and lovely..respectful…
i dont understand all that..
everyone i met they wanna do something together..
either work, eat, drink …play…
i guess im a little “exotic” but mainly
when i say the magic word “BURN” people bow…!!!?????
so ok.. enough with my bow wow …
i was so surprised when another major news magazine here,
not only knew “venice beach” through BURN..
but they let me sell them any project or work i want..
Self assigned assignments..
Photograph anything u like they said..
just bring it to us…
All that from grecolandia..
VIVA BURN…
link of that NORWEGIAN HEAVY METAL night below:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpgs?authkey=Gv1sRgCL3Pq9DittKengE#slideshow/5404700696831769522
JIM…
yes, you are right…i need to do a new Dialogue post…today!! just a matter of my time…i cannot be everywhere and do everything…things been kinda busy as you probably know….besides, i just gotta be in the right mood to write…mostly, i need the internet, which i have not had for the better part of three weeks….anyway, no excuses…on the case…stay tuned
JON-MARC..
i promise you your comment will be read by Erica…folks here on Burn do keep up, despite the fact there are so many comments…
PANOS…
love your Greek essay..i just cannot do anything with it until december 1…i have a nightmare travel schedule until then…i will do what i feel is a good edit, and then run it by you for your approval as per usual….all good??
cheers, david
DAH
Regarding your comment on Blues Booze and BBQ…. I read the introduction and artist statement… and there is a link to Powerhouse….
I am just convinced that people DO NOT READ.
We see this everyday at the newspaper… either people are calling in to ask a question that was clearly answered in the article or better yet to bitch about a story only to admit later in the conversation that they had not read it, they where just going on what someone had told them.
This country is becoming more and more illiterate and LAZY.
Thankfully we have photography. People love to look at pictures!
DAH…
absofuckinlutely…
i got great news…
i had GREAT LIGHT YESTERDAY…
so i did a second part of greek street photography…
i cant wait to show u and ALL…
i think.. not sure… that yesterday i did way
better photos than the link i posted two days ago…
yes yes plz help me edit whenever u r ready…
in the meantime i will keep shooting..
new “greek” link coming tomorrow..
or soonest..
i just cant keep it inside..
thanks man for inspiration
huge hug
JON-MARC and DAH
promise fulfilled :) just like that!
No question that the issue of lineage is in the forefront of my mind, and perhaps it is part of my ‘mission’ to iterate that there is a wide gap between being derivative and working with awareness and deference. I was just corresponding with the son of the social documentary photographer Milton Rogovin – who will be 100 years old this December, there will be an open celebration in Buffalo for those interested – and we agree about the importance of keeping a spotlight on little things/words/ideas of photographers of the past. A big part of the reason I am building the online reference library at DEVELOP is to serve individual work now that might be better informed by something from the past.
But you also made me think back to something I heard Gilles Peress say, about his distaste for univocal work…clearly device v. voice v. propaganda is a way that needs to be walked in balance.
Again, so glad to have you here!
And DAH – if you can think of anyone else who should answer yesterday’s question, pls ask if you come across them or feel free to text their email – Jason is trying to get 83 photogs who were influenced then who are accomplished now…
David, thanks for the heads up on the Blues, Booze, & BBQ book. Just ordered it!
Actually, Pete, it was not clear to me from reading the text that the book had been published yet.
PETE…
laughing…you are so right!! it is so so clear that this is a published book and yet some just DO NOT READ…i am constantly answering questions that are so stated in the intro…not only this, but on everything….well, that is just the way it is amigo….so, now, what was your question?? laughing….
cheers, david
JIM…
both Mike and i appreciate your support…..i will now add another little bit on the intro that makes it even more clear…i think you will enjoy the book….by the way, how far are you from either Houston or Austin?? i will be in both places sooner rather than later and would love to pay you a visit….i had hoped to stop by this summer for Family Drive photography, but i simply ran out of money to do so…
cheers, david
DAH
Also, just wanted to make sure you saw the photoshelter gallery invite. I resent it to your email just in case.
PANOS…
keep shooting, but please think about posting too much here in the comments section with a link …shouldn’t we save some of it as surprise when we publish the essay?? i know most readers do not not even come here in the comments section, so your choice….just a thought…you got the FIRE, which is the all that photography is about…go, go, and then go some more…
luck is feeling the way that you do right now….
the BIG SECRET.
ERICA…
i cannot think right now…i am trying to find my socks!! good on you for DEVELOP…you are so so good at referencing which is something sorely lacking among so many emerging photographers….let’s please meet upon my return to the states in early december…worst case scenario is that we meet at Mike’s opening at Powerhouse…i will have a gathering at my place after of course…if we can meet before that, so much the better…stay on my case …
PETE…
got it….just cannot do anything for next ten days or so…i know YOU will stay on my case!!
cheers, david
No hurry. I just know how emails get overlooked when so many come in….
DAVID…
ok.. i will practice patience…
i will post no more or…less…
i will keep the best for a SURPRISE/ESSAY…
gracias amigo
DAH – yes, will see you soon…
(still need to make the best edit to submit for dark light of this nothing book proposal, sigh..and i’d love to get your feedback on my 5 day essay (digital, color, sort of fast food! for me) about the 76 yr old female bodybuilder in Southern California..it’s somewhat hard for me to ‘see’ these images)
hmm..maybe will call the research library “reference and deference” :)
ERICA…
of course i will work with you on this….i usually take the whole month of december “off” so to speak, so your timing is right for a good one on one….
Ehm, Powerhouse asks 90 $ for shipping overseas, any way to work around this?
eva – though we all should buy direct from pH when it makes sense, for you the sensible thing is to buy from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Blues-Booze-Michael-Loyd-Young/dp/1576875121
EVA…
maybe we can get some books to sell thru Burn..let me check…that does sound expensive….or , as Erica suggests, go to Amazon….
Erica and David, thanks, buying it through Burn, esp. if Burn gets something through it other than loss of time and hassle, would be cool, otherwise I’ll have to pick amazon, 90 $ is just too steep! Thanks!
ALL…SECOND POSTING….URGENT
quick but important question: who among you can handle video and audio capture??
i might have a client who would need two or three photographers , with their own video equipment, who could get locked in to an American family for up to ten days..again, both video and still required…this is still in the planning stages and no promises yet, but good ideas and good people skills and good video skills needed…this is a paying job ($1,000 per day for ten days) coming through one of the U.S. top ad agencies…
please contact me by private email soonest…david@burnmagazine.org….TODAY, NOW
DAH – great thought about book right through burn! if that doesn’t work out soon enough, also there is the the possibility to have an amazon link from burn, anytime anyone initiates any purchase from amazon through burn, burn would get a small small amount, could add up..but i don’t know if that is (unwelcomed) advertising to you?
ERICA…
well, yes, we have thought of this and will do this..and perhaps our own imprint as well since distribution can be right here….bring all your thoughts to our second annual Burn powwow sometime before Christmas…
DAVID.
“ALL…SECOND POSTING….URGENT
quick but important question: who among you can handle video and audio capture??””
Well, its what I do to pay for stuff so..
BUT…I dont really want to do it myself( many reasons, and also it will, be in the states right?) but for sure I can make kit/tech assist and myself available if you can find the right Burnian for the brief. Let me know what you need. lots of good multimedia people around here
John
Hey David… I sent you an email regarding your request.
Well, this isn’t good news. Looks like the Digital Journalist has fallen on hard times. One of my favorite reads, to:
http://digitaljournalist.org/pledge.html
john……….
man… could u assist me..???
video editing wise????????????
damn.. brainstorming now
DAVID,
Meeting of the minds in NY late December does bring a lot of good memories… I hope we can catch up in Dec when you are back… I am trying to get this book going and will certainly benefit from your guidance… New project is progressing somewhat…a bit slow but the turtle Espinosa is taking his time and hopefully, little by little will get something to show you sometimes.
Hope to connect soon.
Cheers,
Eric
PANOS,
What does it feel like to be a celebrity?!! :):):):…. Good to read that you are having such a great time in Greece and that work is coming your way…
Eric
Panos sure. what do you need to edit??
the Digital Journalist has fallen on hard times…….. slowly the large media corporations along with governments are wrestling back control of the internet. They have the advertising or as some call sponsorship and the ability to buy out/wipe out any thorn in their sides.
Eric…
really… greece is a weird place…
i mean surreal…im not sure i can fully
understand or grasp my two week experience/adventure so far..
Panos; How has it changed (for you?) in the 15 years you’ve been away?
Ross…:)
1) greece havent changed/PROGRESSED AT ALL….
2) i changed dramatically …
does this make any sense?
greece is an endless “big fat greek wedding”..
ouzo, strikes, laziness, rudeness, mustaches, communist party, soccer,
unsafe sex, donkeys in the streets, political corruption,citizens that refuse to pay taxes,
no respect to any laws whatsoever,smoking everywhere…
…nothing changed
JON-MARC SEIMON,
are you my African BURNIAN …???
Welcome …and don’t worry about posting here and there …
your post might get lost BUT your message will find its way…!!!
THODORIS,
I am following your project…I am learning how to make palouze…
thanks for the thingy
VIVA Cyprus !!!
Wake up DAVIDB…PANOS is shooting Norwegian Heavy Metal …oime …
what happens in BURN… better stay in BURN …
To the Digital Journalist…WE, BURNIANS are sending good energy and our LOVE towards you and your
readers…BUT you can come over …there is room for BURNED souls…is that right MR.DAH, ANTON,KERRY…
hmmm…just a suggestion …
POMARA,
that’s for you … blues, booze and bbq !!!
P.S KATIE …We miss you Street beauty fighter with the sword…LOVE
PANOS,
where are you ???
yeap…Nothing changed …only different !!!
Come over …I cooked palouze and the homemade wine is ready…Ainte…:)))
Don’t forget NIKO,THODORI …bring whoever you find…
political scandals, disrespect to foreigners/immigrants…
i can go on and on and on…
kitsch and desperation..
a very very photograph-able country…
xenophobia/racism … / drug addiction…
its a paradise for photographers
before I go…
MR.HARVEY,
may the travel spirits be with you…blah,blah…oime… you are such a traveler :)))
VIVA …and don’t forget, your Greek home is ready (almost)…hiohihihiii !!!
ERIC…
ready to work with any time..any time after dec 1 that is….
JIM … IMANTS
depends on how you look at it…DJ STARTED because of and with corporate sponsorship…DJ was pretty much completely dependent on one company all along……so the corporation has fallen on hard times, so DJ will cease temporarily perhaps/perhaps not…..that is a whole lot different than had DJ started out as a media company and sought it’s own way from the beginning….in any case, i like DJ too…and i think they will be back soonest…
cheers, david
the last two weeks i almost got run over by a taxi at least 7 times…
( for a while i thought that it was the same guy..same yellow cab, same big fat mustache ..
same fuck u attitude..)
WHAT NOT TO LOVE???????
CIVI… thanks for confirming…
i know u lived in the states longer than me… i know u know what im talking about…
big hug
Tell it as it is = PANOS
What not to LOVE !!!
BURNIANS…focus and keep shooting …and MR.PETE…WE DO READ :)))
and we will keep reading ( that’s for you MR.SIDNEY )
I will be back…
and to be fair…
maybe i shouldnt throw the whole country of grecolandia under the bus…
i mainly talk about dirty, polluted , ugly city of athens..
thats what really sucks..
all if ever visit greece, go to the islands, or north, or arta or west..
but skip athens ( akropolis/plaka excluded )
Yea it’s always been a worthwhile read despite its pro American stance. It would be a pity to see it disappear altogethe, unfortunately the www world takes no prisoners.
Panos they sound like the guys who live down the street except no photographers allowed ………………………even my brother in law is a Greek
¨………………………even my brother in law is a Greek¨
so is my sister-in-law..
best to ALL..
k-
……. the best part is that my brother in laws brother in law is not Greek
…laughing…….
good nite yall from the city of “feta stuck on the Mustaches”…
big hug
Panos; Thanks for that. An interesting perspective. Cheers :-)
Panos: “all if ever visit greece, go to the islands, or north, or arta or west..
but skip athens”
Don’t forget Nafplio!!
……. the best part is that my brother in laws brother in law is not Greek
impossible. nonsense. :)
TO CIVI:
“I want to join in…JUSTIN where are you in the Universe? are you Civilian like me ?
DO you LOVE the visual stimulation ? are you a wannabe Fotophilosopher?
what shall I do ? I WANNA JOIN IN !!!”
A: Kentucky, USA. Yes! Yes! Yes! Join in!
“BUT you can come over …there is room for BURNED souls…”
Beautiful…
yea but I ain’t Greek……………
You are, Imants. Everyone is. Just ask Greeks. :)
…….. nah here in oz they say “But you not Grik you not know”
yup….
if you have no feta leftovers on your mustache u no grik…
laughing…
9am..
good morning from Fetalandia
Civi, Panos: When you need a Greeklandia food fix in the southern US, go to Chattanooga and visit Niko’s. Last night’s meal made me want to dance. Why is feta square?
Why is feta square?,,,,,, because it is cut with a knife
Why is Gouda round?
gouda is round…cause it tastes like the sun ???
PANOS, unsafe sex with donkeys on the street? or are the donkeys having unsafe sex in the streets? Why arent the police doing something about this?