Was waiting for your new post, David :)

by the way, i (as you all know) watched a woman jump to her death (she flew right by my class room window and i raced outside to see if i could help) in october of 2006….i didnt couldnt photograph for 6 months…i will write bruno tonight….i completely understand his reaction

b

http://blog.melchersystem.com/2008/09/10/respectfully-yours/

20 years is a long time for any event.. new events always have positive vibes.. older ones, certainly in music, bring other angles..

my comfort zone was set a long while ago in respect to mortality.. what i want to see and the motivation for it was a teenage challenge..
i’ll stretch it again that way at some point, although it is worth noting that the older i get the less i like climbing on high ladders..
hmm..

to answer your point david – i hope to have overcome my own fears.. personal to me, they were there to protect and somehow prevented as an aside.
expect the best – yes perhaps.

the best in each moment that is.. because that is all we can hope for i think.. one good moment followed by another good moment..
for all good minds i hope for a life without the extremes .. a calmness and reasonably balanced existance where the highs are not too ‘high’ and the lows not too low..
i think i have unwittingly trained myself to live difficult circumstances easily.. or may be my parents taught me that..
now to decided how best to use this talent, since i’ll not do what i’m being doing for the last chapter of life..

DAVID,

It was 2001, but I think you already know that.
I sure agree about this topic. I live in Sweden which is probably considered safe and problem free around the world. But in the last year one of my friends was attacked by two people who had stalked him and jumped out of a car. This was while walking home from a mutual friend and we walked the first bit together before splitting up in different directions. Also my parents home had an attempted break in while they were sleeping. Luckily my mother woke up and turned on the lamps. I don’t feel safe and I don’t like walking around in the night by myself. Wish I could, but I just don’t feel safe anymore, not even in my parents house. Several other things has happened as well..

Cheers

One of the most disturbing things I ever saw, was when I was doing some shopping at a popular department store in London.

I was on the top floor, after just coming up the escalators that ran through a central courtyard of the store.

All of a sudden I heard a blood curdling scream, followed by more screams. It turned out that a man had jumped from the fifth floor to his death and landed at the foot of shoppers in the department store eaterie. Very very disturbing.

DAVID:

3rd, yes i know…i thought that’s what you wanted from us (to come for your fiest and hang/talk with the workshop folks)??…we’ll most likely be arriving on early friday morning…and leaving on sunday…we can always talk on saturday too…whatever is fine with you…we dont want to bother your time…

you’ll have enough with your students……

so, we’ll bleed into the background…

u want me to try calling again tonight? if yes, please advice…

gotta run

b

DAVID B:

yes,…it’s hard to explain to others…it’s been in my life 4 times…1 stranger (the woman in 2006), 1 very close friend…and 2 family members (both survived)….

it’s made me, for good and ill, the person i am today…

like other forms of horror or trauma, it never really leaves your life or thoughts, does it…

ok, gotta run

hugs
b

my ‘s’ is not working..
less ego.. not leg ego or let ego..

*smily*

This thread reminds me of Mitch Robbins talking to the school class in City Slickers:

“Value this time in your life kids, because this is the time in your life when you still have your choices, and it goes by so quickly. When you’re a teenager you think you can do anything, and you do. Your twenties are a blur. Your thirties, you raise your family, you make a little money and you think to yourself, “What happened to my twenties?” Your forties, you grow a little pot belly you grow another chin. The music starts to get too loud and one of your old girlfriends from high school becomes a grandmother. Your fifties you have a minor surgery. You’ll call it a procedure, but it’s a surgery. Your sixties you have a major surgery, the music is still loud but it doesn’t matter because you can’t hear it anyway. Seventies, you and the wife retire to Fort Lauderdale, you start eating dinner at two, lunch around ten, breakfast the night before. And you spend most of your time wandering around malls looking for the ultimate in soft yogurt and muttering “how come the kids don’t call?” By your eighties, you’ve had a major stroke, and you end up babbling to some Jamaican nurse who your wife can’t stand but who you call mama. Any questions?”

I like Jason’s T-shirt.

I recently saw someone in a T-shirt bearing the legend “Not Dead Yet”. I’d buy one but it may be a little optimistic.

Shit happens; it’s all going to end in tears – but while there’s moonlight and music and love and romance – let’s face the music and dance!

Watch your back ya’all,

Mike.

You can tell this fellow is optimistic by nature when you see the t-shirt he’s wearing. Ha, it’s wonderful that someone can make light of such an awful event. (I imagine that the fact it was completely out of his control would make it easier to accept.) Optimism seems to be one of those keys to a happy life, isn’t it? It seems people have different scales by which they judge life, what may seem an outrageously difficult series of obstacles to some may just seem like the normal way to go about living to others (i.e. the way you bounce around the globe must have a dizzying amount of logistics to manage!) I recently started running with a friend and trainer. I’m amazed that this person has taught me how to like running, I never expected to get there. But they tell me the next step is to really want to get out running. No quite there yet ;-) but you can see my point.

“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”

MARTIN…

yes, of course…i made the correction…

YOUNG TOM…

i owe you an email..coming soonest

war photographer Bruno Stevens who has covered conflicts in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon etc. said to me “i have seen everything doing my work…dismembered bodies, death all around, yet what i saw right here at Cafe le Poste was far and away the worst thing i have ever witnessed in my whole life..i cannot get over it..i am truly shaken”…..
——————

Bob, since you will be in touch with him, can you ask him why? Does the cultural distance, a definite otherness, immune a P. more than if it happened in more congenial, familiar cultural surroundings?

If not the otherness of far way locales and people, is the camera a shield?

I’d really love to know why he was more affected by the teen suicide than seeing so much death, agony and suffereing in (seemingly) distant theaters of war.

hmmm …

I’ve knowingly narrowly escaped death so often now, that I kind of adapted to the thought. Sometimes now I am even a little careless … at least when it comes to myself only – somehow it is a concious decision to be able to let go at any time, but I know I should not be careless about it.

Life is not fair and one simply does not have everything under control, so I try to see the positive parts that this implies … because it means it generates not only dangers but also chances out of nowhere … And one has to be looking out for those too.

So if I am alone, I am completely fine with things. But I worry to death when I am responsible directly or indirectly for others.

By the way… Knowing how fast things can be over made me a very restless person … There are just sooo many things I want to finish up to then … When I was younger I was the calm center of the family. This changed 100%.

GINA :)))

great. looking forward to meeting you at the shindig…i expect it to be a wild night :)))…i’ll be the quiet one in the corner with the smart and funny and beautiful wife :)))) see u then….

HERVE: :))..

important and good question.

yes, i’ll write Bruno tonight. I cant speak for him but i will ask. i dont have time to write at length (one leg out the door) but i know when i watched the woman fly by my window and ran outside only to hear a bomb (that’s the best way i can describe for you the sound of someone plummeting into the earth, it’s earth shattering and an unforgetable sound) and then to be confront by this and to be unable to do anything…something, oddly, about the “intimacy”, seeing that…i “talked” to this woman in my head for weeks and weeks (i didnt sleep for 4 days afterward)…maybe because in war, one “prepares” (sort of) themselves for this expectation and like a doctor in an ER room, disconnects or anesthetizes or comparmentalizes,…it’s a complicated thing, but for me, this event was in many ways even more traumatic for me than when my friend killed himself…it wasnt that i felt a bigger loss or felt more sad (no comparison to when i lost my friend) but i felt even more helpless with the stranger, plus i SAW it, i witnessed her dying (falling) and her death immediately and maybe because i didnt know her, it seemed, i dont know, more universal, or rather, i could “feel” her death and kept trying to understand the pain pain pain she was enduring (the emotion which caused her to leap, the falling (she never screamed), the crashing, the last breaths)….i still think of her everyday i walk into our building and re-live it in my mind…especially if i look up…but maybe in war, one decides to expect to see death and often one encounters it secondarily, when life has gone already…or rather, one thinks: someone did that to someone, instead of she/he did it to herself/himself…

interestingly, all week i’ve be ready Jean Amery’s book (do you know him??) “the limits of the mind”…he was a survior of auschwitz, but he is also a philosopher…he has a lot to say about this…

but i will ask bruno…i suspect the reason is that in that moment, he was not “disconnected” he was living when all of a sudden….maybe he’ll read this (he does) and answer….

but i wish that on noone,not ever….

ok, that’s it for me for now…disappearing into the woods…

running (literally)
b

ooops… the Typepad “swallowed” the rest of
Akaky’s post…
… i think…
;-)

Harry said:
“…I wonder if that girl had thoughts of fame and immortality by killing herself at the feet of the worlds finest PJ’s…”

… Harry,..
the “real” tragic part of the story is ,
that the FINEST PJ’S weren’t even there..
they were sitting on a chair , watching slideshows…
of other fine pj’s …,
sitting on another chair on another room giving
a fine lecture…
All , have a fine day
;-)

thoughts of fame and immortality by killing herself at the feet of the worlds finest PJ’s.
(harry)

_____________________________________

thats the thing.. perhaps why suicide is such a disturbing event.. we’ll never know.

seeing death resulting from injustice.. accident.. nature.. these things can be comprehended..
but why did my mate erick kill himself? giles? the guy from the roof of my studio?

beate and i chatted on this the other day.. tough times.. we all have them.. what enters your head that makes a sunny day not worth living for.. a cold beer.. what can possibly make someone want to die so much that they make sure they do.. we’ll never know.

for me – that is what disturbs me the most.. more than other instances i’ve witnessed. no where to direct the anger.. no means to understand… the crippleing guilt that we did not see it coming.. second guessing ourselves that we missed vital signals.

we cannot ask those who were intent upon gaining their choice and speculation is useless.

‘So play the game “Existence” to the end
Of the beginning, of the beginning
Of the beginning, of the beginning
Of the beginning, of the beginning
Of the beginning, of the beginning’

(tomorrow never knows.. beatles)

Nope, the comment really was that short, hard as that may be to believe

FRIENDS

I’m off for the weekend to sing with a circle of women on the shores of Crystal Lake in Northern Michigan. I’ll be home late Monday afternoon. Have a great weekend, and may David’s workshop be the grand experience everyone expects…

Patricia

Hi David and all,
I guess when I consider how tough some people have it, like famillies in crisis, abused kids, homes going into foreclosure, bankrupcy, pain and suffering, etc etc, and I reflect upon my own circumstances and station in life, compare and contrast, I have absolutely nothing to grumble about. you know I am not some high brow dude with all kinds of dollhairs stuffed into my wallet, far from it, I am what you might call in brittish terms, skint! and when I cross refernce my own woes, fears etc with some of the shit out there…no complaints from me!
I think we can all suffer from anxiety, but thats human nature.
anyway, things seem to work themselves out…generally…but I am an advocate for prayer, esp when overwhelmed with stress.

also, on another note, started a new project of documenting a street in Los Angeles, all street portraits with the view camera, walking up to random folks, throwing the pitch and if a strike…taking the shots. its going well, but I have nothing posted yet, the material is starting to accumulate. I would love some critique when I got the shit ready to look at though!

also, dropped one of our blog-ites, Robert, at the airport yesterday he is off to Argentina, should be there now…lucky bastard! we should be seeing some beautiful work from him at some point!

thats it from me for now,
best wishes to all!

whoooah.. now pages of comments.. just one column.. is that just me ?

PATRICIA>>

just got your email – going to read it.. and reply.
have a great weekend
x

Not to be too trite here, but my biggest fears are mounting debt and loosing my dog. Other than that, I usually expect the best.

Amigo,

Long time. . .but I’ve been keeping up with you on the blog. I was on my back porch after an evening with some Austin photographers (including our friend Kelly, but we missed Lance) enjoying a cigar and reading with great admiration and appreciation the beautiful entry you wrote in the face of tragedy. It was some of the best and most thoughtful advice about life I’ve received in a long time.

All’s well down south as I can see all is with you. I hope to make it to NYC before year’s end and you’ll be one of the very first to know.

I hope to see you soon. Take care and keep in touch.

Your amigo,
John

Akaky,
I said …” i think…”,
sorry,
I should have said …” i’m afraid that…”,
;-)

BOB….

well, you are welcomed any time…if you come on the 3rd, you will be joining us for our “last minute scramble” production mode..by then, the class will essentially be over in the sense that all student work will be finished and we will be organizing the final show..if you are interested in the shooting/editing/critique process, then you should come earlier…

ALL…

we are working very hard to come up with a good system for online editing and viewing of your various projects…your “work in progress” will have a permanent “place” so we do not have to search all over for your link etc etc..yes, Digital Railroad will be a part of it, but we are also working on a system so that it will be “seamless” from this site to the “editing room”…

also, there will be permanently attached directions for how to submit work for editing and consideration for an EPF stipend, so that if someone misses a post, there will always be a reference…

my inclination at the moment is to award stipends randomly rather than have a set date for “submissions”…after all, the photographers here who are eligible for funding are photographers whose work i have been following, critiquing,etc…

i cannot remember exactly, but i think we have about 10-15 photographers on assignment right now…some started and then totally disappeared…some have completed essays…others have ongoing work to do..

these tech changes always take longer than i think they should take, so please bear with me…but, if all goes as planned the final site should be easier for all of us…

starting this afternoon, i must focus on my “at home” workshop class…but, i will still have time to be reading your comments etc., just not much time to comment myself..for those of you in the New York area , you are welcomed to pop in at various points and see what we are doing…just leave me a note here and i can give you appropriate times when this may work out for thee and for me…

peace et al, david

Apropos to nothing, but perhaps to everything in life…

David:

I was wondering if there is any chance I can submit my on going proyect to Digital Railroad. Im not asking to be considered to EPF stipend, since I guess, it would be unfair. I just want as many critics I can get.

Hope there is no problem.

Many thanks

Jorge

You know, now that I think about it, I dont even remember if I’m doing an assignment this time around. Sad but true; the memory is shot full of holes these days. In any case, amid all the doom and gloom, there’s always this:

Actually the translations are pretty cool :)

Thought they would come out worse. Guess I’ll use a translator now too :))

Hey Sidney, I dont go around encouraging people not to read what you’ve posted ;-)

“…Instead of reading Akaky’s long ramble….”

( i hope Akaky wont see the above… i would get really pissed…)
;-)))))

“… out of sight , out of mind…”, vs “… invisible idiot…”
( thats hilarious , Sidney, you made me laugh… :-)))) )
peace

LAURA,
did you say you are in Beirut…???

… and worry about perfect english????
i would say… look at me..
i survive in hel(L.A) and i dont speak “anything”,
at all… neither spanish ( official language ) nor english…
;-)..
dont worry too much , just watch out for bullets..”

coffe? at this time of the evening?

i’m breaking out the beers here, living in the future..

mornin’all.. time for dinner

Well, it’s actually noon-ish here….I’ve just decided extra caffeine may be called for today….

Saw this last night on a bumper sticker stuck to a paper box…somewhat appropos to our thread topic, I think:

“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, screaming “HOLY CRAP what a ride!”

Variations of that are attributed to Bill McKenna, motorcycle racer….

“Abject, obsequious apologies for this lapse in courtesy…

In an Age less couth, mine would be the torso-less head rolling on the sand, still begging considerations, beneath Fate’s dripping scimitar…”

Sidney, that made me think of this:

Hola David, All
i am from Mexico City and for those who do not know the violence its terrible at this moment kidnap bands, narco violence make us feel constantly fear. at the same time the ¨mexicanos¨ we are a bery kind people thats why the people made a march and let me tell you that was huge a lot of people in peace asking for no ¨violencia¨ that why i have hope, thats why i expect the best always.
i put few pictures if you want to see thisis the link

http://gustavoaragon.photoshop.com

“Abject, obsequious apologies for this lapse in courtesy…

In an Age less couth, mine would be the torso-less head rolling on the sand, still begging considerations, beneath Fate’s dripping scimitar…”

But we live in a couthful age, sir, and I accept your apology in the spirit in which it was intended, and I extend to you the hand of friendship and reconciliation…but what if you dont accept it? Then wouldn’t I look like a first class schmuck, standing there with my hand out and an egg on my face, that would make me look good, wouldnt it?

AKAKY

you’re are right
the italian translation makes no sense at all…
but it made me laugh though…

HOLA ALL….

heading to the yucatan tomorrow morning for a long weekend (back tuesday night). will not be online at all. talk with you all next week!

adios amigos…

DAH – love the new opening image!

ALL

do not remember if I told you about my little chat with an editor from ANI at Visa … So maybe I will be repeating myself (sorry if this is the case) but I am just not in the mood to go through all the comments to check (sorry).
Well, as I think I have mentioned, I had the wrong material with me in Perp. But we were there early and it was quiet and empty. So while Tony and Sean were outside having a coke, I sat there with the relaxed editor and we chattet a little about this and that. The main thing that came across in this conversation – and she said she was speaking for all of the ANI editors – is that she thinks there is a huge missinformation out there as to black&white photography (she was really rolling her eyes when she said this).

She told me that if photographers wanted to sell to magazines, they definitvely should shoot in colour! Only the top names can afford to shoot in b&w and still sell stuff to mags – their name then kind of makes up for the lack of colour.

But, as she said, many photojournalists come to ANI and show b&w photos and this is just a “waste of time and money”. If they want b&w they should try to make an exhibition or a book. If they want to sell to mags, they should use colour.

Other than that she was complaining the poor portfolio quality of some people and the excuses that came with it – more or less the same complaint we have already heard from DAH.

After this conversation I sat outside with Sean and mentioned it. He nodded and replied that he had thankfully found that one out at the very beginning and was therefore just shooting in colour.

Hmmm … A lot of people here are shooting in b&w. Are you aware of this issue?

ANI is french. And of course there are all sorts of mags in a lot of more countries. And for sure there are mags that also take b&w photos. But one should adapt to the circumstances and the needs & plans one has.

****

Another thing. All the photos at Perp were framed more or less the same way. I did not really like the assymetrie that came with it, when there was a long caption on the passepartout under the photo, but … I guess that is the price one pays if one wants an overall look&feel. I think it is a question of money too …

There were small varieties in the colour of the passepartout … and while some photographers opted for long captions, others did not have any at all.

I included some photos with the Visa frames in the slideshow if anyone wishes to have another look at it.

Cheers, Lassal

Lassal or anybody…

What is ANI??

You said it was french, so using google.fr, we get Association des Nettoyeurs Industriels…
(Industrial Cleaners Association)

Je doute fortement que ça soit cela dont tu parles…

Thanks for the answer

David, all
i do not know what hapen but this is the other way to see my pics

https://www.photoshop.com/user/gustavoaragon

i hope all of you can see and if you have something to comment, please.

thank you david for your time maestro

and for greece and china…
and all the big screen tv’s try this link below…
the rest of the links that are following , do involve people,
but this one … i, .. just stayed away…;-)

MobileMe Gallery – INTENSE VENICE COLORS

http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100168&view=mosaic&sel=0

FULL REZ. SLIDESHOW HERE FOR THE SECOND LINK..

http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100176&view=mosaic&sel=0

DAVID,

life is fragile indeed… I would say that I never used to live in fear myself… I actually used to do some pretty risky things in the past, jumping off air-planes, adventure raids etc… I certainly did adhere to the concept of living the moment and not worrying about anything… be health, danger or whatever…

But I wonder if it is still as true now that I have two marvellous kids… The fear I would have now would be to not be present or be there for them when needed… Bottom-line, I am not sure I would do the exact same things now… All of a sudden, I have started to worry about things I never once worried about before…. Just seems difficult for me to have little ones that depend on you and be totally fearless… Back to one of your previous post David about babies and your friend Chris Anderson who is a war photographer yet now has a little baby to watch after…this HAS to be tough….In a way, I sort of understand better someone like Jim who goes to all these dangerous places but has made many very tough sacrifices in his personal life, has no kids etc….

PANOS,

Cool to see you are still going strong with your Venice essay…This perseverence will payoff… I have been back from vacations for a week now and trying to get back some energy to restart shooting for my boxing essay…kind of hard to get back into it after a few weeks break…. I admire your commitment to get going…. I will give me a kick in the butt next week and get back there… Overall, how do you see your essay going? Clearly you had a very strong start but do you find you are able to still shoot really new stuff….David often says that it is easy to take 20 very good images but to go from the 20 to 30 or 40 is the toughest part…we end up shooting more of the same and one picture replaces another but we stay stuck at 20 images…. I personally like many of the new pictures you have been shooting but I am not sure these are stronger to some of the previous ones you previously shared with us… I tell you…I face the same thing…Tough to carry on…Anyway, there is no doubt though that you will have a nice body of work about Venice… I will have to go to this place sometimes just to see it…I feel I have seen it with your eyes and wonder what I would actually find there if I was going there myself.

TO ALL-

I am sure that most of you will have already seen this but just in case…I went back to the Magnum in-motion site to see the essay on “access to life”. If you have not seen it, check it out…there are some very moving pieces. I particularly like the essay from Paolo Pelligrin in Mali (see attached link). Some of the last images about the little kid who is regaining strength and can play again with his brothers are particularly moving…. Was David not saying that life is fragile….in this part of the world even more….

http://accesstolife.theglobalfund.org/essay/mali

Cheers,

Eric

Thanks Cathy.

Just replying in a down to earth manner:

I witness constantly around me (which includes when travelling) that missing the possible meaning of what being alive means ultimately or philosophically, ie. missing out on it (the meaning of life), is not quite equal to missing out on it (life). I would add that is indeed why all things, unawares and awares, minerals, vegetal, animal not just mankind, participate of that journey.

I think, upon reading everyone on this thread, about the last part of Rossellini’s ROMA: OPEN CITY, when the priest is led to be shot by the fascists, and the confessing abbott asks him to be courageous, facing death, and the freedom fighting priest answers these unforgettable words, quoted right hopefully: “it’s life that asks for us to be courageous, not death”.

LINK 3
LINK 3
LINK 3

WHEN WOMEN MEET MEN IN LA…

and for those with the big fat screen monitors… in greece or CHINA..
please click below:

http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100177&view=mosaic&sel=0

GINA,

Have a great trip down in Yucatan!! Sure you will enjoy it wherever you go there. Some years ago I rented a car (a nice old beatle) and drove around the peninsula. Really incredible places and some of them looked like the end of the world!. Enjoy it!

ERIC,

I do love the Mali work from Pellegrin. I’ve seen it several times and do not get tired of looking at it. Touching, sensitive and the images and color just perfect. Wish my pictures could have those colors! Then I would not be scared of shooting in color…

LASSAL,

Thanks for sharing that conversation with the ANI editor. I was already aware of this thing. Usually for my personal work I use b&w because I just love its rawness, the power of transmitting feelings or emotions. I always thought that color disperses the main sensations…. (but seeing Pellegrin’s work in Mali, obviously I was wrong) In the other hand, I work for a magazine and, although I always present my work with one or two photos in b&w, they always choose the color ones…
When I started my edition for Perpignan, my boyfriend told me that I should choose color. His opinion was similar to the one you gave us from the ANI editor, but Juan also added that if you really want to transmit something, then color is more rich, more powerful. But you have to do it better than with b&w, as the use of color is not easy. He told me that I should try to get the same intensity I like from b&w but in color. He pushed me to prepare my last essay in color and…. I’m happy I did it :-). I will keep the b&w photos for exhibitions or books, but definitely will present it in color to the magazines (or maybe a mixture of both which is something I do not rule out.

Un abrazo!

Ana

…and…
3 weeks till the my negs and slides arrive in norway.. then a drive to have decade finished with editing before christmas..
http://1997to2008.blogspot.com/

project fear or weakness and you will become a victim…
_____

a writer i worked with years ago said he thought i was excellent at controlling my facial expression.. i thought this weird.. yet a poker face.. with a smile as a natural expression.. has got me a long way.

been hit, bottle thrown at me.. as yet i’ve avoided being robbed.. by the skin on my teeth on occasion.

ANA,

It is funny you commented about the colors that Paolo is able to create in his color pictures…I would describe myself more as a color photographer but I looked at that essay thinking like you, how does he do this….how is he able to get those color palettes…the light is unbelievable almost unreal in some shots…I wish I could ask him… Interestingly, couple of weeks ago, Audrey did share a link of an interview he gave in Perpignan about the color work that he presented there (will try to find it back). Paolo explained that he was just starting in colour, still learning (seems to me he has learned fast :):)) He also mentioned that he was one of the last PRO photographers to move to digitial as he feared that he could not create what he was able to do with B&W film and development of film… but eventually, he decided to immerse himself into Photoshop, the technique etc and now moved fully to digital…. Reason I say this is that I also wonder with some of the color pictures whether these were shot close to the way these look at the end or if there is heavy work afterwards with Photoshop to get these colors etc…. I am of the pov that it does not matter at the end of the day as I love the pctures Paolo creates but at least this would help me to know…. I somehow feel that I will need one day to also immerse myself into the technique of Digital photography…I am totally useless when it comes to photoshop….an embarassement really for someone who is an engineer…. but it becomes clear to me that not learning this might limit what I could do in color…although I remember David once saying to me that he is also totally useless in Photoshop etc so there is hope….

Eric

GUSTAVO…

your link does not open for me no matter what i do….

ERIC…

just a quick comment because i must go to class…

i love the work of Paolo…BUT, i do think his work relies very heavily on Photoshop…when i saw those prints, i immediately thought heavy Photoshop..he has one woman who processes is digital files and he directs “the look”…but, when the light is obviously impossible “to be” natural, then i do have some reservations…of course, Gene Smith did this in the darkroom with black & white…

i suppose it is just a personal taste issue…certainly not an ethical one…

cheers, david

Here is the link of all the interviews made for Visa
http://www.photographie.com/magazine/publication/105083/fr/
the link of Pellegrin
http://www.photographie.com/?pubid=105067&secid=2&rubid=8

Of nothing…

ANA…

with Photoshop and digi files, color is not quite as difficult technically as it used to be…with color slide film you had to wait for exactly the right light and be “right on” with exposure etc. or you simply “lost” the picture…with digi/Photoshop many of these concerns are gone..

of course, this tech combo also produces some pretty sloppy photography at times…and when i see work that is over Photoshopped, i tend to SEE the Photoshop more than i see the “intent”..

good seeing is good seeing…you cannot Photoshop your way into a good picture… unless of course manipulation is part of the intent, part of the art…

i think all would do well to study light in it’s natural way….then limited use of Photoshop will enhance rather than detract…

besos, david

hmmmm ….
I am very insecure if I should argue about this now or not. At the end B&W is not the “real colour” either. It is totally unreal. None of us sees in B&W. But historically we are used to it. So it feels real in a way.

At the moment, without reflecting further (which I maybe should do before posting), I would say that certain types (maybe not the completely crazy ones that become something in itself) of colour manipulations are not more or less unreal than b&w.

Whish I had more time for this now but will absolutely turn my browser off now, as I have to get my assignment finishe for tomorrow and going on lurking in here will not help me at all…

:)

But be glad to go on with this discussion someday! I could not do without PS while using the S10. I have to get rid of the very, very colorful noise it generates.

I do not “see” so much color. At least not normally. So when I look at pictures I have taken I am often shocked when I see the colors as I do not have them in mind like this. The way I work with my colors – which goes a little bit beyond of what would be necessary with my S10 – is to get the pictures the way I see them … The way I remember them. To make them MY pictures. Otherwise, even knowing I have taken them, they feel strange and “unreal” (yes) for me.

So at the end, the pictures I present are the pictures I recall… Thus they are per se very personal …
I hope this does not sound completely strange.

I just wish I had a camera where I could do these adjustments in the software. So the camera would “see” as I do…

Well, that’s it, Lassal. I do like b&w because of the feelings it produces in me. But that, most of the times, is not real at all. Three months ago I took some pictures in an orphanage in Africa. It was a quite pleasant place, very sunny, very clean, very white, very tidy and with a happy atmosphere… but the b&w pictures transmit a more harsh sensation and the place looks more sad, more touching… So in that case b&w was not real at all.

But regarding to color and the moderate use of Ps, I also agree with you. I’m not talking about changing the complete color palette. I just think that working in digital most of the times some adjustments will improve the image quite a lot (just increase contrast is what I most do and I don’t think that is manipulation)

Hope you finish your assignment on time, Lassal!!

:-)

LASSAL said:

“…is to get the pictures the way I see them … The way I remember them. To make them MY pictures. Otherwise, even knowing I have taken them, they feel strange and “unreal” (yes) for me.

So at the end, the pictures I present are the pictures I recall… Thus they are per se very personal …
I hope this does not sound completely strange.

I just wish I had a camera where I could do these adjustments in the software. So the camera would “see” as I do… ”

Yes, that’s the point, isn’t it?

Although I only got a digital SLR and stopped using film 2 and 1/2 years ago, I was an ‘early adopter’ of digital imaging technology. I started using Photoshop in 1993 (Version 2!) and have done all my own scanning of film and slides and all my own printing since 1997 when I also bought the first wide format ‘consumer’ inkjet printer available, the Epson 3000. So I am very familiar with what Photoshop can do. But for me the challenge was always to get the images to reflect what I saw, not to ‘pimp them up’. That is actually harder and takes more finesse than creating bizarre or striking effects.
I am completely in sympathy with what Lassal is doing. And I see a great consistency (authorship??) in the look of her work and admire it. The difference between us (and between me and many photographers) is that I have never ‘seen’ in B&W, and much as I enjoy and appreciate good B&W, I have never wanted to shoot in anything but color.
For decades, there was a prejudice against color among many ‘serious’ photographers… I used to think this was partly because most people who shot in color didn’t do their own developing and printing and had little control over the final images. There was also the ‘postcard’ and ‘red bandanna’ syndrome. But of course, people like Ernst Haas, David Muench, Raghubir Singh, and Midorikawa Yoichi were doing very subtle and sophisticated work with color even in the 1950s and early 1960s. But the prejudice against color was deep and didn’t really start eroding until the major news magazines and then finally the New York Times started regularly publishing color photography.
I think there is still a prejudice in some ‘art photography’ circles against color work. But clearly something else is also at work here. Some people just don’t ‘see’ much color and are not comfortable working with it. And the classic photojournalism that we all grew up with, admired, and some of us wanted to emulate, was largely in B&W. But I hope we have finally reached the stage where no one is making value judgments about the ‘superiority’ of B&W to color in photography (or vice versa), because that is frankly ridiculous.

I mean Anton’s last link about Birgit, not from Perpignan…

David Bowen,

Totally off of the subject but noticing you live in Norway and I just finished an excellent book by an author from there, Per Petterson, “Out Stealing Horses.” It gave me my first real taste of what is is like to actually live in Norway. He is an excellent writer and I intend to read more of his work. Have you read any of his books?

Lee

Panos,

I like your Driving Around Venice story very much—it gave the feeling of loneliness, detachment… When photographing from within cars I find that sometimes you can feel a feeling of claustrophobia when looking at the pictures afterwards, a feeling of wanting to get out and yet the world outside so uninviting…

At any rate, I think I completely understand what you say about ‘unexcitement’ becoming ‘excitement’…through photography…

JAMES,

Happy birthday!!! Enjoy this day as much as you enjoy Life ;-)

Hug

Ana

Hola again David and all

here i go again sorry i hope this time it works if any body can see this, and if you want to say something thank you.
adios

http://www.photoshop.com/user/gustavoaragon/?galleryid=bf6cc4a2df074a93a0f9ea495174f82b&wf=share&trackingid=BTAGC

or in flicker

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marchailuminemos/sets/72157607271318915/show/with/2854150542/

and this one is the march

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marchailuminemos/sets/72157607267444118/show/with/2853286917/

and the old boy – celebrated philosopher – talking over the track above is saying this;

‘Næss- “hvorledes kan min, hva vi kaller for livskvalitet, beholdes eller bli høyere? Og livskvalitet går overhodet ikke på hva man har, men hvordan man føler man er og hvorledes det er; hva er det som gleder oss?”

‘how can my, what we call life quality, become higher? and life quality has nothing to do with what you have, more how you feel you are (in yourself) and how things are; what is it that makes us happy?’
(arne naess)

IF WE WANT IT IT’S RIGHT….

David B,

Like the connect to Thomas D. Will check him out in World Music section at Borders today. I am always on the look out for good music. BTW, I am really enjoying your photos of musicians. The collection of last ten years is quite good; I was a groupie for many years and I loved the atmosphere of concerts.

Lee

ERICA…

Thanks for the link to Casey’s blog.

Am I imagining things or do all the photographers at Perpignan look very chic? The women are all beautiful and the men rugged and handsome, no?

Has anyone seen Vicky Christina Barcelona? :))

I JUST saw it…after my last comment.
Surprised no one has commented here about the Scarlett Johansson photographer character.

DAVID…I think you’ll enjoy this movie! :))

HEY EVERYBODY!!!!!

Shit happens as you all know, but its not always bad….

Life is a constant re-invention, its like riding a roller coaster- I think of the extraordinary things that have occurred during my life time- from wars to the mapping of the human genome… the loss of family and friends, the finding of new ones…

But for me, there is always hope if there is a collective effort to improve things…

Friends of mine are involved in this, check it out…

http://www.whaledreamers.com/

lee

thanks :o)
looking forward to finishing the edit and banging them back into colour for the next stage.

erica

that perp link seems to tell more about the week than most.. reminiscent of the process for music conferences.. next year will be a blast.. looking forward.
want to get with one of those agency things first may be.. get some expenses paid..

lisa.. good looking link – not looked through it all as yet.. obviously where i live there is an amount of sustainable hunting.. and overfishing is a problem with dwindling stocks.. there is a photo story there, i know.

GUSTAVO…

you “had me” with frames 3, 4, 5 and then “lost me” with all of the miscellaneous frames after…the bubble blowers could be an interesting short essay, but i think you need to keep it on the more abstract side…the ones that are good are magic..the others totally take away from the better ones and kill the feeling i think you want…again, editing works!!!

cheers, david

DAVID,
When it comes to photojournalism and photoshop (or darkroom) there’s a really fine line. I absolutely love Pellegrin’s and Majoli’s work.
Majoli seems to work with the same technique, but that’s with artificial light and more for portraits right? Makes it more ok for me. But again I love Paolos work, but back in my head I sometimes hear Erwitts and Griffiths voices in the back of my head about manipulation and photojournalism. Do they need to make it pretty? is that their mission? But then again they are two of my absolute favourite photographers along with Lars Tunbjörk in photojournalism whose work has really grown on me. I’m stunned at seeing how well he has captured a time that is now gone (without photoshop)..

Cheers

JAMES….

i will be here…a tu servicio..

look forward to seeing you…

cheers, david

..do you “fear the worst” or do you “expect the best”???

I’ve been on the road for a few days, clearing my visual palate from the shooting part of the assignment, thought I’d come back with fresh eyes to begin the editing..I read this post the other night but didn’t have time to respond, but I realized that there is much I could say about my personal views on fear, but not sure if this is exactly the place for it. In an abbreviated way I will say that the words ‘fear not’ have had precedence in my life for some years now, they are words that were ‘divinely spoken’ directly to me in a meditation…

My embodiment of those words, to the best of my ability, has lead me to believe that one gains nothing from negotiating with fear..that once you enter into relationship with fear you have already begun to give away your inherent right to and position of protection and strength.

Instead of going on at length about this, I will tell you that after traveling yesterday I spent the day getting audio for the project from some neighbors during our block party until it was dark out and and I was quite tired..went out to a late dinner, and as I was walking home, thinking of bed and sleep, I walked by something going on in the basement of the church where I photographed 40 days..

It was a Spanish Catholic gathering, I’ve noticed it before on occasion, never went to see what it was exactly, but last night despite my fatigue I was moved to go home, get the audio recorder, and come back..the first part was what I would have expected, Spanish Catholic Mass. The priest is a black man from Africa with excellent Spanish language skills..on the wall over his head, written in Spanish on poster board in magic marker was the verse:

fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong.

As midnight approached, all the women were called forward; I approached, digital recorder in hand, recording..I thought it was to be a simple blessing of the women, that we are strong, dutiful, etc.. But I was unprepared for what actually transpired; we closed our eyes, and the priest began to pray fervently that we release all fear, all darkness, all illness..soon the room was gone to me, in the back of my consciousness I heard such sounds that carried me further away, he was speaking in tongues. When I became aware again of my body I was on the floor along with the other women, ‘taken over by the holy spirit’..recorder still running, body shaking, but not with fear..

rafal

funny stuff – that gave me a real smile.. you’re little one looks easy to look after :o)

PANOS bro

you are putting the pedal to the metal… how can i keep up… i promised you feedback but in the meantime there are several new galleries on your site!! i just cannot keep up with you…

but that’s great… you’re in the game… stay there bro…

i saw it all and i loved it all

peace
duvel

one gains nothing from negotiating with fear
——————–

gee, Erica, I have no idea what you mean here. fear, any, is something we all have to come to terms to, and deal (negotisating?)with in a most personal manner. The time to be totally aware of oneself and one’s emotions.

It is not a “negotiation” we should refute, and actually just like any other obstacle, we must also negotiate it!

Maybe you meant negotiate as giving it to it, in caes that are not strictly fear of dying or getting hurt or maimed.

Simon yesssss…! i agree

“…When photographing from within cars I find that sometimes you can feel a feeling of claustrophobia when looking at the pictures afterwards, a feeling of wanting to get out and yet the world outside so uninviting…

Posted by: Simon Griffee | September 13, 2008 at 02:27 PM…”

Herve , totally game in Venice… cant wait to meet you there!

Anton……duvel !!!!!!!
sunday morning over here… lets start with a beer !!!!!

James, happy birthday … negro modelo perhaps, same brewery, better beer :))

RAFAL…

just took a quick look in-between my “one on one” sessions with my current class…

nice little series…good thinking…funny…

cheers, david

cathy!

we’re a gemini… 17th of june…

anton
anton

sorry. of course i meant “gals & guys”…

:)

DAVID,
I agree with most of what you say. It don’t want to entirely dismiss what Erwitt and Philliphs said about manipulation though.
Better in B&W I agree, allthough the Mali piece from Pellegrin was brilliant.. As you hear, I’m split…

Cheers

martin

exactly… need insights on possible edits… lots of repitition i know… sorry i should ‘ve mentioned that one :)

but now i’m curious… which would you pick?

for a really tight edit, i think i’d go for 1,2,4,5,6,7,8

what do you think?

cheers

BOB
I heard an interview he gave not so long ago and was perplex when I heard today of how he died.
What an incredible loss …

ANTON,
OK, I see. I think that you are the best editor for your own work. Not us at the forum :)
I’d say 1,5 and 7 for an even tighter edit. To me no. 5 is the best. Nothing wrong with your colour, but sometimes I get a very commercial feel from it, sort of microstock. Don’t want to be harsh, but I don’t know if it works with the story. But on the other hand it can also be your signature. I don’t get that vibe in shot no. 5.
WOW, I sound like the worst critic, but there’s really great potential in you work. Just work with tighter edits..

Cheers

VENICE UPDATE….!!!
VENICE UPDATE
VENICE UPDATE…………………………… LINK no: 42……….

well… i heard them say that you are what you think ..
or you eventually become your thoughts…
you are your thoughts… you also are what you eat…

so, when i approached venice for the first time , i knew im gonna get burned but i didnt know to what degree…
All those people that i met in venice,
all those characters eventually became ME, even for a while,
even for a night…
A TRIBUTE TO ALL THOSE motherfuckers that helped me or stood in my way… to those who became one even for a second over a beer or a kiss…
my mind is a collage of all those influences… those photos are also a collage,… A TRIBUTE TO THOSE VENICE DEMONS…

http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/%22VENICE_BEACH%22/42_HEADSHOTS,_FACES_OF_VENICE,_INSIDERS_PORTRAITS.html

AND AGAIN… VENICE BEACH UPDATE…

( if you have the big fat screen, click below… )

http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100192&view=mosaic&sel=0

Hola David
yesssss thank you man you make my day ja ja ja you do not know but for me the fact that you see my pictures its something amazing ja yehaaaaaa sorry i never show my work because i feel fear about the reaction
abouth the editing i agree with you but i did not know if the abstract images told you something thats why i tried to complement with the ¨others¨ just one thing more you sed 3,4,5, ¨had you¨ but what about 1 and 2.
Gracias Maestro y salud

GUSTAVO…

for me , it is 3,4,5, …vision of life through the bubble…the others were just way too didactic or “straight” for my taste…who needs INFORMATION on the bubble blowers??? no, the BUBBLE floating through time and space, with such a short life span is IT….

saludos, david

KATHARINA…

maybe early in october…later i will be on my road trip and on down to oaxaca, mexico for my last full on shooting workshop of the year..anyway, if i am around, my door is open..

cheers, david

..ok….. good to know !

Herve ,
do not worry … everything is “abysmall” right now..
from love to money..

DAH,
thank you.!

peace and ( of course ) , hugs !

and hugs to you too, herve… roll on…

Panos, I like very much your portraits, you realized a big work, I do not dare to imagine how many photos you have all in all!! You are so prolific!

James, happy birthday, we shall meet next year, I know now what you look like!

Anton, tu sais tout le bien que je pense de Brigit…

Best regards, audrey

ANA, DAVID, LASSAL,

About Paolo’s work, I was also amazed by the exhibition that I have seen in PERP, the colors are amazing but the emotions popping out of his pictures are stronger than this I think. About colors I guess that the way he’s subtly using the flash light is also very helpfull to get an amazing unnatural light… Photoshop makes the things easier, but a crappy picture is a crappy picture, PS won’t help much in that case, this means that the better the picture is out of the memory card, the better it will be on the print…

Panos,

Ive been working in color for a bit now, and have a major project going in full color.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jinju/sets/72157606002172259/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jinju/sets/72157604860509161/

rafal, all.

colour or BnW.. these days of digital the option is much wider.
shooting only colour film, as i have since 97, has given me the option.. there are some excellent papers for printing colour to b&w and as said earlier – magazines try hard to be colourful since it sells.
i’m looking forward to getting a bulk film loader up and running again soon.. since i have a project which is not dependant upon colour – it’s about motives.. whats happening.

i find editing in b&w simpler.. some photos need colour since that is the point of them.. others do not.
if colour boosts the idea of a photo – go for it.. if colour distracts from the point then drop it.

it’s not really been a conflict in my mind between the two.. it’s more like choosing which cheese to accompany a good bottle of wine.. where perhaps the wine is the point and the cheese the added bonus.

actually, terrible analogy.. given the photo meaning of ‘cheese’.. wish i had used tea instead.. breakfast or earl grey..

PANOS,

Some good shots there, yes! But I agree that you need a tight edit to get the very best. My favourite one, the one that kept me nodding for a while: # 6, the King of all homless. Yeah! you got it, man! ;-)

YAN,

Yes, that is why I like that Mali work from Pellegrin. Emotions are really strong there! And I think the colors add strenght to the images. I do think he was using flash too, and probably not straight from the camera view. I really wish I could see him while shooting!

But one thing is for sure: as you said, the better the picture is out of the camera, the better it will be on the print. And that is my goal, to get the best from the camera! By the way, I want to start a new project where I want to test exclusively with natural light. :-)

Big smiles for this morning!

Ana

RAFAL…

in your case, it is not whether you are shooting in b&w or color…it is whether you are going to be close or detached…when i see Riverside or Parklife i do not immediately think “oh Rafal has switched to color”..i think “oh Rafal has changed his style of shooting”..PART of the style change involves the color/b&w shift, but mostly it is a perspective change….if those two projects (Parklife, Riverside) were in b&w, they would still have a very different look, or rather emotional connection and feel, than the family at home work in b&w…

cheers, david

David,

yes in a way its different although with Park Life Im now working to make it more intimate and personal like Home Sweet Home…I would like Park Life and Riverside to integrate and Park Life might carry that intimacy that my black and white family and home work hopefully has. I think that a detached style can coexist happily with an intimate style and an intimate style might infuse intimact into a detached style.

DAVIN!

“I love all the women in this world and red wine too”

priceless :))))))))

“I love all the women in this world and red wine too”

now Davin will be known for this line all over the world! :D

GINA

excited to see you in NYC..

MIKE R

thanks :)

BOB

oh, what a shame about DFW :(

HERVE

about not being willing to negotiate with fear..

I agree with you that it is right to confront fear; fear is to be harnessed, named, recognized, used and released. But that is different than coming into negotiation with it, as in, “I will only fear a little”… It is the enemy, so to speak, insidious and all pervasive, especially so when it is mental fear, open the door to it and it will run amuck. I think it is helpful to see fear which wells up cognitively as a limited, isolated experience, one that transpires in the present and in time. I do think that facing fear like a warrior in combat will help to eliminate it, to put it down..we have the right to ownership over our own lives and it’s ok to be a hard ass about it. But also I feel it is possible to personalize the emotion of fear so that it becomes humanized and ones own instincts can surface – compassion perhaps; so that the fear can be replaced with more helpful emotions.

I see all fear essentially as the fear of self injury – be it to the carnal.. death, or emotional, psychic, or to one’s position or stature. It is the threat of lessening or dissolution, that the inevitable will become the present; such as physical decay or the loss of what one holds dear. Yet there is nothing that can transpire that cannot be used for ones own eventual growth and gain, especially in the grander sense if you accept that even after death there is the possibility that the soul continues.

Of course, when something physically threatening and awful is happening in the moment, the challenge to not let fear ‘in’ is huge, but it is not insurmountable, and not succumbing to fear may be the very thing that saves ones life. I was in a crazy car accident once, I was driving on a crowded highway going fast fast, my car essentially imploded and smashed into a semi truck, spun out across the lanes, and I think because I was in a calm place and was able to stay there without fear and didn’t react in any fearful way, that I lived. Of course I give in to fear in smaller ways all the time in my daily life, but I am trying not to..

hope that isn’t too preachy, not intended as such, just my position..

ANTON… and Anton.. :))

My husband Richard was born on June 18th so believe me, I know the anton and anton syndrome very well! Although I use different names for Richie’s “characters”. I call his sensitive side “Ethan” for example… :))

ANTON AND MARTIN…DAVID AND ALL…
I was glad to read the editing conversation with Martin and Anton. It seemed to be honest and free from bullshit.

I woke up this morning wondering what many are gaining from the recent feedback they are getting here. It seems that as everyone is getting to be “friends” the feedback is less truthful (for lack of a better word) and more ego-boosting in nature…which has its place…but…

Some days all I read here is how GREAT everyone’s work is….Is it ALL that great? Maybe it is…but is that really what everyone is looking to hear? I’d seriously like to know…when posting work here are you looking for accolades or do you want to learn and grow? I sometimes hesitate to be honest now because it seems I would be the only one saying something other than “great work”

I certainly get my share of criticism when I post work. Am I the only one whose work needs improvement :))

Just thought it might be time for a little reality check!

and as always ,( for the “big, fat, screeners- the full rez. ones … click below )

http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100203&bgcolor=black&view=mosaic&sel=0

… being horny ands hungry in Venice Beach…
WHAT DRIVES YOU ????
WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVATION ?????

Ana Y…
;-))))))))))))))

cathy

wow different names for our characters… there’s an idea! i’ve always thought friends called me different names randomly, but there just might be a reason for that… i’ll ask the other me’s and try to find out :)))

yes and i really appreciate the ‘no-bullshit’ approach (like martin’s) a lot too… it is so incredibly helpful when people speak their minds free of fear for… whatever… but this is only an issue online i think… like when i met Audrey and Neil and James and Pierre Yves in person in perpignan and they looked through my images i got the most incredible feedback…

here online, i seldom feel confident enough to comment myself (not being into photography for that long yet), maybe because i don’t have an “experienced” eye… i only seem able to “feel” things when i see images presented by people here, but i can’t translate that into words properly and comment accordingly…

and i often feel bad that i’m more often asking for everyone’s advice than i can offer it… feel like i can’t give as much as i ask… but i hope eventually as i gain experience i might be able to turn this around…

do i make sense?

MARTIN…

“you yourself really have to be your own worst critic..”

You are absolutely correct.

David tells me I take criticism very well…that’s because I have so much practice giving it to myself :))

PANOS:

yES, I always keep my promises…only sometimes it takes time for life to make it possible, but if u r patient enough, it will come true…and for that promise, yes, i WILL do it…whenever you are ready…that’s how “Ordinary Things” was born…i made a promise to Rene (who doesnt comment here any more) and gave him something for his work…and, well..im serious…when u and david make it happen for you, i will give you what i am able: some song :)))…but, you should know that i think this: YOU ARE THE BEST CAPTION WRITER i’ve ever read…i love love your captions…even when you’re sad, they’re filled with such fucking beautiful humour, i love that in people, and have little time for people who dont laugh, especially when then sad :)))…what else do we have if not our sense of humour about ourselves or lives. :)))…

CATHY:

I can only speak for myself. I think much of the discussion here is wonderful and thoughtful and hugely nutritional. If it weren’t, i would have high-tailed it outta here long ago…not only the insight and friendship that David offers but from the membership…

i can tell u this though: one person’s genuine feelings and reflections is another’s bullshit. i’ll give you an example: i wrote comments about others work here (sidney’s work on the Asian festivals this summer) only to get an email from someone saying this: “bob, person x wrote me that he/she thinks your comments about y were arrogant, pretentious and totally uninformed, as if you were already a Magnum photographer…”..yes, that’s what someone wrote when i offered some thoughts. I also am not a bullshitter and have made it a point of my life to support and praise and to point out strengths (at least when it’s in an environment that is large like the web), reserving more specific misgivings for either personal relationships (talking or emails). Hell, there have been times when i disagree with David and have written extensively about that too (and i’ve been criticized for that too), so i think the most “real” approach is when a person chooses to speak with comfort about their opinions and thoughts, keeping in mind that each person comes to photography with their own background, ideas, education and work aesthetic/experience. I enjoyed reading the conversation between Martin and Anton, just as i enjoyed speaking with Anton about the color/b-w issue with the essay on Brigit. I think the truth is that what is wonderful and great about the blog is that the blog is many many things to many many different people and that’s what is important. Questions about edit are critical and conversations are really important, but i don’t think it’s possible to decide when the blog is too “nice” or not “real” enough…

again, i can only speak for myself, but i’ll share with you why i share pictures with the blog. It’s actually very simple. I shared some (the previews) of Bones of the last 2 weeks as i was nearing completion of the edit I want to send to David, as a way to share with the group what i was going through, what i had been working on and how this was coming to fruition. Especially, since sadly i tend to write alot here and show little (but that’ has nothing to do with the my photography, because i do have alot of work) because i enjoy chatting and i love the conversation that lives here, i thought it was important to share with members the work i’d spoken about. David will have my “final” (well, let’s say for now) edit at weeks’s end, as i dont want to trouble him during his workshop. I also do not show work here just for “praise.” In fact, quite the opposite. I show work because i dont know another way to communicate with some of the people here…we are spread out. increasingly, the blog is “home” for people to drop by to chat, argue, share, edit, say hello, ruminate, move on….I feel increasingly that what i can do best as a member here is to write something i’m thinking about or to share work that might be interesting…but even now, i feel that i take up too much of the blog’s time…too many comments, too long of a rift (even with my 1 hr a day limit)…and…as a photographer, i also feel that i dont david or any of the blog to fee burdened…

this will be the last year i submit work for efp, cause i feel fortunate enough to have participated last year and this year by doing work, making a project that i expressedly did for this community: i mean, one inspired by the group, by david and by each of y’all…

thus, i think the best criticism of “editing” or “color/bw” or “narrative” or “publication” or any of that is to allow for each contributor (when showing work) to look for what they, in their heart’s seek…

i’ll be bald in my honesty: i will share bones with you because i’ve invested my entire life in the idea, in the shooting/scanning/developing/editing, and i want to share this not because i think it’s a great essay but because it shall stand for what i best love about this blog:

members being who they are and bringing to the table of photography what it is that defines them as people and by extension what defines their work, their waking life…

i really like the loose nature of the blog…but all the praise and all the criticism and arguments and ideas…i think if all the “praise” seems vacuous then i tend to think that’s because it is (imho) quite empty feeling to criticizing just by looking rather than offering a dialogue (like martin and anton did with one another, or what i hope i was able to do with Lance over True Grit (on the blog and in private emails))…

more important than “honest” criticism is honest conversation :))))…that can be all good or all negative or a mix between the 2 :)))

i know what you mean, but just know that some of us mean the praise we offer and hope that words, in the full sense of our thoughts, make sense ;))

(but i know im rambling: im still thinking about the silence of our camping trip (beautiful) and return to the suicide of one of my beloved writers)…

we know much much less than we ever imagine…

hugs
running
b

Cathy,

I couldnt agree more, and wanted to write it many times but feared to spoil the “party”. Mutual respect about everyone’s work is good but sometimes this leads to an excess of praising, IMO.
I like a lot of work i see here, and i wrote it sometimes, but honestly i also see a lot of unimportant stuff, photographs seen thousands of times. But i dont like many established photographers either (a good professional is not necessarily an artist or a poet) so i’m very cautious before using the word “great”.

Sidney,

we, more or less, wrote the same things, probably posting simultaneously.
Time ago I also asked for some comments on a series of photos, but had zero of them (Marcin was the only one who bothered, to say the truth).
So I also thought maybe my pictures were too old-fashioned to deserve any honest criticism….

i come here for photographic companionship in all honesty.
i’m extremely weary of critical approaches to viewing the work of people who are enjoying what they do, and i really believe that half the time – as charles pointed out with barcelona work – all that is needed is a nod in the right direction on occasion.. and on other occasions the motivation of time-frame and a showing of work.

some negative crits can be more about inflation of ego just as some praise can be, although the recipient of the inflated ego is on the opposite side in each case.
as bob says – honest conversation is more rewarding.

one thing which surprises me about this forum is the lack of ego.. the lack of negative ego and sharp put downs.. its there in professional life and on other forums, and it’s refreshing here to not see that.

ego – it’s not a bad thing to have.
in norway there is a tradition of janteloven, where it is deemed wrong to exhibit your particular talent.. i used to think this was cool.. and then i thought, why not be proud?

not too proud obviously.. i mean to say – bob.. his words and work are peculiar to him.. he does ‘himself’ extremely well.. and so why would i want to tackle that?
panos.. is doing his thing with all the style and grace of someone looking for the edges.. the edges.. peripheral places and rare moments from everyday life.. it’s his life and i cannot direct that.. anton.. rafal.. david mc.. patricia..
everyone here is doing here thing with various degrees of success.. and i don’t feel it is my place to comment on that which i am only learning myself, (despite the full career behind me already).
there is someone else here who is much better at that.. the person themselves.. and someone much better to guide.. DAH.. and so i leave it to their grace to comment and adjust.

i see this place much less like a classroom or collage crit, and more like an enabler and vehicle to encourage and nurture development.

as to why i came here..
i wish i had been here for the last decade.. or at least while i was still in the maelstrom of the recent pasts work life.. posting daily would be great.. it would have been fascinating.. it would not have changed my work though.. there may have been good pointers, but i would still have done my thing.. shot the same amount.. chased the same commissions..

for me coming here is about staying connected with a good bunch of people, with a shared passion for photo-making and an open mind to all kinds of work.. variety.
i came here to get away from the confidence game which needed to be played for the past years.. to be a little more vulnerable and to catch some intelligent thoughts on the day to day of editing..

are we really here for appraisals?
although they are always welcome, we can get those from editors if we call them or send work over.. which i shall be doing again soon..
and we’re not all here to show work frequently.. many of us are in a different place photographically which doesn’t suit weekly posting yet..

it is noteworthy that some of my favorite posters do not post photos.. then, perhaps, that is the nature of a forum where we cannot post photographs individually..

of course i hope that in 6 months or so when i’m looking to get my book out i will need honest critique and i know and trust some of the minds here to do that with real talent – because giving critique is a real talent.. and not one i feel comfortable or willing to express here.. because i do that in collage for students.. and here among my peers i would rather kick back with chatter and opinion exchanging until i get onto one of the assignment trains..

there is a lot to be learn’t here – and from my reading of the past forums it’s more about communication and the method than direct critique of photos.. more about.. more about understanding and encouragement than direction.. because i believe that everyone here has there thing, and will do there thing.. and frankly – i’m not confident enough to talk about other peoples thing since all i know is what i do.. and all i hope is that i do it well.

http://www.aniboom.com/video/235299/Reckoner-v2/

stick it on full screen and play loud with headphones..

we’ll all face the reckoner..
night all.

radiohead had a contest..
click the spinning cube to see the winners.. :o)

http://www.popphoto.com/americanphotofeatures/5420/photography-workshops-art-inspiration-adventure.html

I think there is not one critique that has been done here but in the spirit of conversation, ie. Just talking. That’s why we have misunderstanding sometimes, words come out too fast, across the room, not in private and the sorts. Frankly it’s my problem here, I am just talking typing words, and it probably looks like I am writing. Hell, no, just typed conversation.

Bob, i’d be surprised if the rude e-mail you got came from one of us regulars. Cathy, you are privileged to be shown room for improvement, the worse criticism would indeed be unconditionnal praise or, of course, total indifference.

Though Guido, not getting feedback as you asked, only shows the nature of the net, not indifference. Timing can be off, for any reason and personally, I think we should give an essay sometime before tackling any kind of crit… oops…. Conversation, to it. I think your “essay” on the elders shows great compassion, and talent for portraiture (which is maybe slightly more about timing than psychology), while being more a collection of photos than an essay, lacking environmental shots, hence, though hardly the only good one, my favorite shot is the first.

I too differ from the friends here who go into lauding mode as soon as one or the other puts a link. We read, expediently that is, why they like it but never learn why others should like it (the definition of critiquing). My own love of photography has grown exponentially because I read what others had to say about a photographer, a picture, a book, that went beyond “great work!”.

Thanks for the birthday wishes!! Glad to have got that over for another year… phew!

Hey ANTON, I checked through your images earlier. You have some nice stuff up there, I especially like the one you chose as a “cover” shot in the following link. It has a really nice atmosphere and feeling to it. It really stands out against a lot of the others… which, in some cases I feel are a bit “stocky” (I think somebody else made a similar comment)… Problem is my G4 Mac wont show the files right now, I’ll get hold of Jess’ later, and have another look. I’ll pass on my favs then. Thanks so much for the pic by the way, we love it!

James

REST FROM EDIT…

CATHY :))…totally understand and i didnt meant to criticize your request (hope you didnt see it at that) only that what i love about this place is 1) variety of thought,experience,passion,language,desire,nationality,personality, etc and 2) the totally “professionalism”…the supportive nature: it’s totally rare, as Dave B, points out…even when we scrap or disagree, there is no other “blog”/community so receptive to equality of personality and work…

SIDNEY :))..yea, that email totally took the wind out of my desire to write anymore about others work, and please know that I totally love when you post…i mean, from the moment 1 1 1/3 years ago you first showed up and wrote about Korea/Asia i was smitten…and dont judge too harshly me by my mad-dash posts…i tend to reserve my “thoughtfulness” for when editing ;)))…here, it’s just lots of joyeous and wacko banter :))))…but, though yes we differ hugely in writing/photo, i respect you a great deal and love when you write :)))

HERVE: :))) well, it wasnt one of the regular regulars…but, it was a person who comes…but hell, aint no big deal, right…i figured if we all judged one another on what we write, we’d all love only david and hate each other ;)))…fortunately our online persona aint totally who we are…i hope im much much less pretentious in real life: for that you’d have to ask people in the know, who i’ve talked to like Lance or know personally like Mike Berube, but yea, the emailer wasn’t one of the inner circel ;)))

DAVID B :))))….you da man…

now, im done…

silencium :)))

hugs
b

DAVIN…

yes, i will be here…please stop by and check all the activity going in my loft…lots of pictures being taken and shown…you are most welcomed any time….

CATHY…

i do not think it is a matter of being honest…it is just that in person one can move pictures around, create juxtapositions, just edit easier…i promise you that an hour of editing in person just could not be matched on line in any amount of time..but , of course, i will still do the best i can!!

cheers, david

ALL / GUIDO

much respect for the honest dialogue about sharing and receiving..just want to add that sometimes a lack of feedback is due to not having enough time, or happens simply because the words aren’t accessible; not always because of a lack of appreciation.

Posted by: erica mcdonald | September 15, 2008 at 09:10 PM

Erica, ALL , i totally agree …
Guido,… i was telling Pat the other day..
why people just email me personally and not talk in public, in the open forum..( especially if its a “positive” comment..?
i know the feeling of being “ignored”, because , this is the NATURE of every ARTIST…
Guido, have faith … not only in DAH, or “us” here in this blog..
but in yourself…
trust me,.. WE ALL FEEL IGNORED or INSECURE from times to times or once in a while… trust me.. trust us… its in the nature
of every “artist” i know… self doubt, insecurity…. you name it..
peace)

(thank you ERICA , you totally covered me on this…!:-)

ERICA…PANOS….

thanks amigos…you summed it up….

GUIDO…

to the best of my recollection (which is not always perfect) i have seen very few comments from you here over the last few months…some people write more than others, and many (most) do not write at all…

i honestly do not recall seeing a link to your work…it is pretty easy to miss things these days, so it is always a good idea to put a link up twice or so…i remember missing one of Rafal’s links…he simply posted again, and i had time to look..

in the very near future we will have a permanent place, Digital Railroad, for links and individual works of selected photographers…you may know that i have “assigned” about 15 photographers whose work i know well and regularly post and are critiqued by all readers and by me…i cannot possibly critique every link that everyone sends..i do see many more than i have time to write about…however, honestly, a really great link will make me write!!!…and like everything else in life , it does not hurt to keep asking….if i feel a photographer really really wants some feedback from me, i will figure out a way to do it….so, i guess my point is, you have to stay on top of it…make sure we all know what you are doing….suggest an assignment….keep us up to date…so many do this here and it seems to work…

post your link again…if i have time to write this much to you, i have time to take a look!!!

cheers, david

CATHY…

anyone who messes with Anton and Panos is my enemy!!!

oh Cathy , you know i am teasing, but how did you get yourself in this mess??? you actually HAVE contradicted yourself….better go back to the archives and check it out!!!

hasn’t the discussion over “traditional” vs. “leading edge” gone on for centuries??? “no accounting for taste” is an understatement, isn’t it??

not all “traditional” is worthwhile…nor is all “nouveau verité”…

one thing for sure about critique and the subsequent interpretation of the critique…usually the critiquer and the critiquee are not on the same page..if the two do not have the same REFERENCES (i.e.knowledge of what has gone on before), then the critique can be taken out of context or totally skewed in the mind of the critiquee and a total misinterpretation of the words of the critiquer…get it??

hugs, love, david

David;
I hope you don’t mind me re-posting this but am really interested in the b&w conundrum I mentioned above. Any thoughts? (If you have enough time)

Thanks

“I’ve had to become a lurker for the last month or so, I’ve been too busy to contribute. A magazine I work for folded and as it provided 50% of my income I’ve had to do a lot of scrambling about looking for new work… Things were pretty dire for a while but hopefully things are back on track now.

Re the B&W debate; A hypothetical situation. I am about to put a gallery up on my website and I feel they are stronger in B&W. Do I put them up in colour because that’s what editors are saying they want? Or do I go with my gut feeling and leave them B&W and maybe lose sales.

If you totally rely on image/article sales to pay the bills it’s actually quite a serious conundrum… Any thoughts?

I’ve deleted and added some images to my Timor gallery on Lightstalkers so any comments would be appreciated…. Additions are #’s 14, 15,17,18, 27. The photo essay and article will be out in the December edition of Australian Photography (B&W and colour).

It doesn’t look like I’ll get back to Timor for Xmas because of the magazine hassle, but should be able to by March/April.

Cheers everyone.”

David;

Thank you! Those were my thoughts too, but it’s good to be able to bounce ideas to solidify your own views. The changes I have made are both b&w and colour.

I have only used colour when I thought a particular image screams colour…. I feel it comes down to integrity, and hopefully it shows in the resulting work.

Cheers

PANOS….

hey dude, i am with you and feel your pain…seriously…for one thing, i am totally trying to finance my family project by myself (so far)…nightmare…like why did i decide to shoot med format film and make double sets of contacts on a self-financed project??? digi would be one twentieth the cost overall…

so, you are working the wire??? balancing act?? cutting it close??? living the dream , but teetering on the abyss?? welcome to the club…

hey, you are doing the work..in your own way…do it well enough and it might just come back to you financially…selling books, prints, getting an assignment tailored to you…this should get you just enough money to go out and spend it doing yet another project that will get you even closer to that deep deep hole where you walk along the edge and feel the breeze knowing you could slip at any moment, but also realizing you can really LIVE no other way….

breathe deep….enjoy….

cheers, hugs, david

ok, ALL…. LINK 44…( HOW TO SURVIVE IN A BAD ECONOMY- if… you have the skills…!

http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/%22VENICE_BEACH%22/44%29_WORKING_,_PERFORMING_VENICE….html

VENICE BEACH………….!

b/w and color issue, that is also a bit of a tricky one for me too, I realized that I truly love the way large format renders color, but I also love shooting b/w, so I find myself taking 2 shots of the same subject unless there is no doubt that it would be better in one or the other. so generally I end up with two sheets of the same thing, it can be a little costly. but I do like the thought of an extra back up sheet just in case.
I am really looking forward to presenting the new work I am shooting in Echo Park LA, David, when the work is up, in 1 or 2 weeks, would you all please take a look. I am shooting, as I said, color and b/w and the final edit will be a combination of both, but it would be pretty cool to get some feedback.
best wishes to all

CATHY

I’ve just returned home after four days away and am doing my best to catch up on all that has happened here. Not an easy task. But I was struck by your comment posted earlier today in which you asked the question,

“Some days all I read here is how GREAT everyone’s work is….Is it ALL that great? Maybe it is…but is that really what everyone is looking to hear?”

I am one of those on the blog whose feedback is often positive. At the same time I am always honest. If I have a question of suggestion about someone’s work, I never hesitate to say it.

Back in the mid-90s when I taught watercolor painting to adults, I learned to suggest not critique. Believe me, I’d had my share of confidence-destroying critiques in art school. From them I learned nothing. But when a professor brought forth new ideas and suggestions as to how I could improve my work, I lapped it up. I personally believe that encouragement is a more effective teaching tool than criticism.

When I say “encouragement,” I do not mean patting someone on the head and saying their work is great when it isn’t. I mean finding the best in someone’s work and encouraging them to explore that direction. It means focusing on the positive not the negative.

There are still ways to say that something is not working. But if I go hammering that point without bringing up what IS working, the listener is inclined to miss the point because their defense mechanisms get triggered and they can no longer hear what I have to say.

I sense that most readers/participants of this blog want to grow, want to hear the truth, and are asking for feedback that will help them move forward. Each of us is at a different stage of growth; that’s what makes it especially important not to judge one the same as you’d judge another. A good number of our people are professional photographers who have been doing this work for years. Others are just starting out. Sometimes I know their history and sometimes not. That’s why I try to step gently so as not to be too harsh on tender souls.

I have no idea if I have answered your questions or not. These are just a few thoughts that your post triggered in me. Thanks for introducing this most important discussion.

Patricia

ok… really…

this a collage… a fake ” apotheosis ” of what a greek tragedy is…
so ..

http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100219&view=mosaic&sel=0

PANOS….

crashing hard..just can’t take it anymore….eurotime…class early..eastern standard time….a whimp…good night….

peace, david

I’ll leave the (scanner) light on for you..

SLEEP WELL

thanks David

DAVID…

Now that I have calmed down slightly…We were having a discussion throughout the day that took a bit of courage for me to initiate and I felt REALLY GOOD about how well it went….for all concerned. So good that I was inspired to take a dance class for the first time in a long while! So it was more than discouraging to come home to find you (and possibly Panos) had skimmed over the entire conversation and somehow misunderstood it and were saying things to me about being your enemy!!! That’s not very nice…joke or no joke and honestly I’m a bit pissed off at the moment. I’m going to try and forget about it and not let it ruin my day…but I really don’t get where you are coming from at all! NO JOKE!

david

ok i see thank you now i have to work on it
Salud

BOB…

To confirm…I definitely did not see your comment as criticism. I appreciated it. :))

DAVID,

http://www.eatmorebeef.org

as hervè correctly pointed out, it’s not an essay but something more like a gallery of portraits.
When you have time….
thanks a lot

Hi Guido,

I remember myself very well your subject, I like very much your portraits treated with this color “aged” as these ageing persons, I am endowing more touched because it reminds me my grandfather who lived several months in an old people’s home and he was allowed die…
I think that it is going to be a big problem in the future, the number increasing of person old, not enough places of accommodation, the high price and the staff not enough considered as old people’s homes, level of the pensions which decreases and the coC of the life which increases…
Good continuation, audrey

guido

the opening shot of your website really reminds me of some photographs of the benefit agencies in the u.k. when they needed renewing.. tired places.. was it paul graham?

will look properly later on.. between classes now.. just came to say
PANOS
you dared me and so i have :o)
shown your venice project in action to my photo class.. had them in stitches laughing in places.. split them into groups of three.. each chose a random title.. then had to look through.. choose a photo or two and talk about it.. why they liked it.
the boys chose GIRLS GIRLS of course.
will email later.

ANYONE WHO TWISTS A MELON IS MY ENEMA.

WOW! What happened here? I thought what Cathy said was thoughtful, but it may have provoked some. It started with me critiqueing Anton’s work which Cathy commented on. As far as I see it she didn’t do anything wrong. What David said about references is true, but I think that most of us here are at the same page. We don’t have totally diversified styles. And also if David is going to be only one able to critique work I honestly don’t see any value in this forum.

Cheers

CATHY…

well, i thought i was very very clearly teasing you…my intent was total “100% tongue in cheek”…i even went “over the top” in what i thought was the kind of way you would know for sure i was teasing…the kind of humor that you only do with friends who you are quite sure will understand…the whole chit chat between all of us who were “on” at the moment was playful, irreverent, silly even…

my apologies for whatever i said that has you coming out so so upset..

apologies, like editing, take longer on line than in person too….

hugs, david

ROSS – Funny you should pipe up just when I rock into Nhulunbuy , I won’t get to see the perma culture mob you suggested this time around as I Have a 4 day assignment and have just spent the first day with my ass welded to the car seat driving from Darwin to get here , but thinking about your pain Re clients folding – I’m just comming up even 3 months after one long time client decided to give me the arse , The Personal work V Proffessional balance is one I’m living every day , every time I order 20 rolls of 220 colour trannie – can I afford this ? , got to make every roll count , no praying and spraying , everything about the stuff I do off on my own is a challenge , why clour trannie? Because it’s hard , why Med format? Because it’s hard, Sometimes I think I have bitten off more than I can chew in the work I started 4 years ago but I gotta keep chewing like crazy!
15 hours in a car on the great Arnhem Highway is making me bloody crazy , out shooting all day tomorrow after I pick up the erstwhile scribe from the airport .
DAH , BOB , SIDNEY , I’ll have some new stuff to show you guys as soon as I can slip in a little scanning time – Running , driving and soon sleeping !

HERVE & ANTON

Just to clarify…

When I post a link to my work on this blog, I often specifically ask for “constructive criticism.” That kind of critique implies that you are building upon (constructing) what is working rather than simply tearing down what is not. Yes, it is a form of criticism but one that IMHO encourages the artist/photographer/filmmaker/whomever to move forward in a constructive way. Mutual respect is its essence.

This is the kind of critique I see happening all the time on this blog. May it ever be so.

Patricia

MARTIN BRINK…

i am not so sure that everyone is “referentially on the same page”…you might be, but not everyone…but, one of the things that so many do here with regard to “referencing” is to refer to books, shows, etc so that those who are not sure of the context of critique will become so as time goes on..

the nature of this forum is totally educational..or , at least, that is MY intent..

and yes yes, anyone posting work for critique, comment, should be expecting comments from everyone else on this forum…

i try to spend as much time as possible helping those who have assignments or are involved in long term projects or are making very tough life/career decisions and moves..

i do some of this on line…i do a lot of this at home with many who walk through my door spontaneously…and i do this “officially” and best at workshops as i am doing in my loft right now with 12 members of this forum…you will see the results of this week of shooting and critique soonest…

the problem with the on line critique is that it takes forever to find out what a photographer has as intent, what photo/art historical references they may have, and the inability to actually edit (although this should become way way easier by next week with our DR deal)…i.e. saying “i like #4 and #5” is not editing…at least not in the way that i view editing, sequencing and balancing a body of work for publication or for a gallery presentation…

now, case in point:

GUIDO…

please read the above and understand my dilemma…you have sent us a set of pictures from an old peoples home…i have no idea whether you are 20 years old and planning a career in photojournalism or whether you are one of the old folks in the home!! context matters!!

i do not know why you chose this subject..knowing this would help…i have no idea of your overall intent nor your experience in photography prior… although it looks as though you are an “entry level” photographer or just have photography as a serious hobby…for a real critique, i need to know all of these things….or, i at least need to know these things so that i can best tell how i think you may want to proceed….

from just a purely photographic standpoint, and just based on the pictures you are showing us, i think you have a lot of work to do to move up to your “next step”…

your lighting, composition, and general ability to capture a moment need refining..

tell me now…how long have you been a photographer?? what motivates you to be a photographer?? how do you earn a living? what previous work have you done??? what are your short term goals?? long term?? what do you love more than anything else?

ok, running now…but, i do hope to hear from you…

cheers, david

Panos:
DAH:it’s you, chaotic, dramatic, real, fake, punk, loving, weird, lost you…
yes, that’s the (almost) daily wake-up call we get from your updates….

DAH:
I hope I can show you ( or send you…let’s see) some new work soonest….am in BKK for the x’th time and looks like on each trip there’s been some new experience ….

“More than a diary, the blog is an ongoing conversation that Harvey conducts with a wide audience of young photographers around the world.”

Well, it’s nice being young again, even if it’s only on the Internet…

DAVID BOWEN,
I sure agree that the blog is much more than critique and I don’t usually critique work, but I’m not going to say it’s all good if someone asks my honest opinion.

DAH,
I did not say everyone, but I said most of us..
But I agree, we should be careful if we do not know references, goals etc..
With Anton’s work my point wasn’t that it was bad, my problem was the amount of images from very little time of shooting. But later I understood that he wanted help with the editing. I personally try to edit a lot before publishing anything though.
There’s one image that’s still on my mind from Anton’s series on the beach and that’s the girl standing in the water and looking out in the ocean. That’s the one I think he should take with him in his large series of work on her.

BOB,
Thanks! I agree that critique should be real and not some picky bullshit only trying to find faults in work.

Bob, exactly… A Movie
David Bowen…absolutely..your students
know..

FIRST, to agree with All..
( I am , by far the worst editor in the world-
when it comes to my work , but it’s not this
particular weekness you are witnessing
on my links)… I like telling stories.. It’s not
just showing off the five best PHOTOS out of the bunch..for critique..
It’s not to impress for the first time.. Everyone
knows about my Venice by now.. It’s just I wanna
put everyone into that game.. Into that soap OPERA..
I could write more and post less photos..
But I’m LAZY and I use ( add) pics that helps “explain the plot” of my
Funny-Tragic stories.. Again, not to necessarily IMPRESS you,
but to let my story to roll faster.. Easier for me with less CAPTIONS..

so All , when you look at my shit…
I always feel the responsibility ( and nobody asked me too..)
TO MAKE YOU LAUGH.. To entertain you.. SENSE OF HUMOR
AS BOB SUGGESTS… I totally know that on all of my links I’m usually
VERY HAPPY with 2-4 photos, if that… But I post 20, not to
confuse you, not to be an arrogant , or as an optimistic ignorant..

No, no, no… It’s not ALL about critique..
I’m responsible to make you laugh..
Like A RADIO SHOW.. Like any show..
Show must go on…
Bob, again the movie analogy makes so much sense..
Not every frame in a movie is strong but the result
could be extra strong…
so if I made you smile, that to me, worths the
extra hassle or the extra unnecessary photo…

David B, again thank you for the feedback..
Boys will be boys … I wish I was there to listen
to the kids… To listen to their critiques, laughter,
Critisism.. And all the good stuff that our
Cathy is looking for…;-)
Cathy,… Tongue in the cheek joking,
Teasing and fucking around here…
Chill, we love you … I do.. I was playing with
You, but again all I was saying is don’t waste
Your time “talking” about critique( and how the forum
will get benefited by this, etc… just do it.. do it.. do it…
Just like Martin and Anton…

So… Let me rephrase .. Anyone that messes with Cathy
Is my enemy…..!!!
( therefore I’m my own enemy);-)
Coffee and peace for all….

PANOS…

Just missed your comment while I was writing.
Okay…we’re cool..

more on the way…

PANOS…

one more thing…you were right…I AM very funny. :))
but maybe more so in person than online :)))

MICHAEL R

yes, certainly you are welcome to the words, tho I am not fully understanding what you mean to do, but that’s okay with me anyway! :)

MAMA MIA??
Hmmm!! Sporades??
I need to check that out..
Thanks Cathy…
( and unfortunately, I’m afraid we will need
to move to Greece together.. Obama regarding…
unless, unless America does the right thing.. Ah soon will see..!)

ALL:

forgot to add the MOST IMPORTANT THING, to my last long post (as i was running to catch the metro):

one of the greatest and most important things to happen to me related to photography has been THIS BLOG: the REAL friendships that have come from it (just as what has happened with LS), the conversation, the support, the comraderie, the love, the help…David has meant alot to me and my family personally over the last 16 months (friendship beyond photography) and so have many of the friendships that have come from this place…the friendship, the work, the ideas, the chatter…in a world held often at bay by contempt and arrogance and cynicism and elitist attitudes, this place under Harvey’s stewardship is an inspiring and rewarding place…

y’all have give my own life grace and reward, friendship and headaches, inspiration and challenge….ant that has often kept the wolves of my own life at bay…

cheers
y’all

b

… ohh , and one more thing for Cathy and ALL..
regarding work-critique etc…
( and also Pat can verify this )
There is a lot of critique and suggestions going on over here,
but its HIDDEN… through personal emails…
Audrey
Cristina,
Katharina,
Bob,
Pat,
Herve,
( fucking Young Tom ), and also
Tom Hyde who keeps pressuring me and pressuring me and pressuring to go better , bigger, stronger with no beating around the bush … to name a few of my “super-team of advice and
constructive critisism… to give you an example when i fposted the first “xxx” link, a friend ( no name ) immediately emailed me and slapped me in the face… feedback is important otherwise you do not know “your effect” on others peoples life… its not such thing as an AUDIENCE…
its just YOU and the rest of the world!!!

David B, for example prefers to tell it like it is ,openly here…
i always say, always here, always open, always naked…
but , for example, two nights ago i spent 2 hours emailing with
Patricia back and forth … very very very interesting and
important things.. but, very personal too, im afraid…
something like that could easily bore any reader here… so keep in mind…. there is a whole another HIDDEN WORLD HERE…
that goes on with personal, emails, critiques, sorrys, love affairs,
And look now what i am gonna end up saying…
not “every info” is “important” …. even for the “loosest blog” of all blogs… some things could always stay a little personal…
especially “negative” stuff , but the accolades… please bring it on..;-)))))
because the soul of the artist is very sensitive and we all need encouragement…
… someone just said: “hey, im not sensitive”…
well , then my “someone” friend… then go ahead and throw the first stone….

More than a , the is an y s with a of young the world.”

Well, it’s on the
Posted by: Akaky | September 16, 2008 at 09:50 AM

…the above text is from Akaky’s post…
All im trying to prove is that EVEN ,
THE GREAT MASTER AKAKY needs sometimes to use,
ordinary words ( like i usually do), like “well”, “or”, ‘the”…etc,
just to “support” and complete a longer sentence..
to complete his “essay”….
this what i do too sometimes with my little posts- links…
even an ordinary photo belongs there as long as it tells the story..
now if this ordinary photo , belongs in a book or in a Wall…
or in tha garbage can … that is a whole another story my friends…

but, yes… even AKAKY has to use “ordinary” words sometimes to keep it together…

;-))))))))))))))))))))))))))

DAVID,

Not sure what email you owe me but I will be most happy to receive it :))

PANOS,

I will try to send you photos, many, many, many unedited photos of Greece, to entertain … and just torture a little too :))

tom

panos

you mess with those captions and you’ll be an anemone..

martin

hey.. i’m not saying ‘lie if you think it’s rubbish.. and say it’s good.’
just to clarify..
i crit for my stoodents..

DAH man,
thanks for taking time to look and write about my old people’s series.
ok, i’ll try to give some more information about those photos. And myself.
I was being born more or less when bob black was born, a july day when you DAH were probably dancing Janis Joplin during the Summer of Love, a beer in one hand, a camera in the other hand.
Studied art and design and worked as a freelance illustrator from 1989 to 2007. When i turned 40 i decided i was fed up with art directors and assignments and deadlines and started to devote myself to painting, and uncommissioned art in general . That’s what i do now, though i can hardly say i’m earning a living from it. As to photography i started shooting 25 years ago with an olympus OM 2 i borrowed from my father. Since then i’ve been on and off many times, not taking pictures for years sometimes. The pictures you saw were taken about 15 years ago when i was on my civil service’s year (probably not the right word but it used to be a substitute of the military service). I worked in a home for the elderly and took those pictures for my personal purpose in my spare time.
Again i had a borrowed camera, dont remember what, possibly a pentax with a single 50 mm lens, not much of an equipment. I think i shot no more than 6-7 rolls in all, dont know exactly how many because in the end i kept only 40 of those slides. Since then i’ve kept shooting only in my spare time or when traveling, always in b/w, until few months ago when i shot some color slides again following a new landscape project (I’ve mostly shot landscape in b/w as well). I know what you may think now, why i have shown you a project of 15 years ago of a kind of photography i havent done since? yes, it makes not much sense, i think i felt somewhat guilty every time i heard someone saying “show us your work instead of just talking”. Or maybe wanted to start from the beginning. And as i cant buy a scanner at the moment, that was the only series available to show. I share what you write about those photographs, and i dont think you have to know too much to formulate a criticism on their quality (or weakness). The only thing i can say to defend those pictures is that the original slides looked much better than the scanned images one can see on the website. And i did not do any photoshop enhancement to equal the original photos. And that what i liked was the tenderness that comes out from some of those people’s photographs (they obviously knew me very well and trusted me).
So i dont know if i’m still an “entry level”, i hope i’ve moved some steps forward since, you’ll judge yourself when i’ll show you more
(hopefully soon…).
And lastly: what kind of a photographer i want to be. I think i’ll answer this question when you have seen my recent work, probably it makes not so much sense to talk about it now.
Of course I’ll appreciate any other comments from the bloggers here.

cheers

you mess with those captions and you’ll be an anemone..

an anemone……….. damn you made me laugh…
you reminded me of Einstein’s hair…! on LSD…!
lol….

ALL

sorry if I am falling in here now, completely off topic, but everything is a little hectic here right now and I just want to make an announcement.
(Point is, I do not quite know where to make the announcement other than in this blog. So it is going to be here for a start)

People from Tuscany know that I was a little unhappy with my small postcardproject. Why? Well. It was smallish. Nice thought but … well… you know.
Thus I decided to keep it how it was (=small) and “reduce” it to the places my fellow workshopstudents were from.
But that was annoying too. I kind of tried to just get it over with to do something I found a little deeper in thought. But … what I did not try to do was to change the project in order to get right, what I already had.

Now in Perpignan I had to look into a questioning face from DAH who was wondering why the hell I was not using Perpignan to continue with the project… (My mind was on another project altogether already).

Do not ask me how he does it (how do you do it, David?), but sometimes I just need the look ge gives me to sort things out …

So that night it was about either killing the project or to get it to a level where I would like to go on with it. And so I did. I mean, I took the project somewhere else. It is still not anything that will change people’s lifes, but I really like it now!!! :)))

And I opened it for submissions, or applications or whatever you might want to call it. Please have a look, if anybody has time, and tell me if you understand my written explanation …

http://dark.lassal.de/projects/a-strangers-wish/

Obviously my website is not highly frequenced as it is quite new and I am not in a huge community. So not many people know about it. So… who would “apply”? Nobody probably. One could argue that it is not important if anyone actually applies, but it is all about the concept. True. BUT, I really like the idea of getting some postcards out of nowhere … I like it very much. Even probably having some weirdos amongst it … who cares?! :)
Passing by, making an appointment in a café. I think that could work. Do you?

I am very satisfied and calm with it now. It can just flow along with me from this time on and we will see where it leads.

Meanwhile I am working on some completely new stuff… But difficult. Will take me forever probably to get to the first pictures. A lot of research ahead of me and a lot of persuation. Do not know if I am good in this but will eventually find it out.

It is very, very tight here right now. Have to squeeze some assignments in. Will be in Ljubljana at the end of the month (anybody there??) and in Helsinki next month if the weather stays stable (anyone in Helsinki for a coffee??).

If anybody cares to give me her/his thoughts on the new postcard project, I would be very glad.

Sorry, I feel very bad jumping in here to ask for your oppinion without giving my handfull as to your projects. I promise I will get back to you asap! You guys do not know what a huge, HUGE favor you are doing me in showing so much and linking to all kind of things. When I first showed up here, I had no clue about photography, photographers etc. at all. So all of the discussions that go on here, and the namedropping (which I then eagerly look up) and the references … It is just amazingly helpful. And one can learn really fast. Thanks to the internet … Wonderful tool. This community would be nothing without it … But this blog would be nothing without David and you guys either.

Thanks again! I appreciate it more than words can tell.

My Dear Lassal

You are brilliant

greetings from poland

peace

Here it is! Thanks to you, Lassal. You know… I did not hear anything from your postcards project until the last day I was in Perpignan (and you were not there any more). It was David who told me about the project. I did not know about it and he told me that he thought non of us here knew about it yet but that it was a VERY interesting project. Now i just took a look to your web and understood how your project works and….. yes! it is a beautiful work! And for sure you will end up with a book from this. I’m sure! The idea is really nice and I also like the portraits very much…
It’s gonna be a long road to finish this work. Maybe you never finish it… but sure it will take you to great places, people, situations… and a definitely good job.

Go for it, Lassal. I’m very happy for you!

Hugs
Ana

Lassal,

I think the postcard project is loads of fun, and while it might take a while to get a “body of work” built, it is something that you can continue to do while you follow other things….and when it gets to “critical mass”, enough pictures to publish, could be a very interesting look at people in all sorts of different places, both literally and figuratively.

Can I send you a postcard?

Ana
:))))
Thanks …
I have not managed to say more to your photos. I am trying to remember where I saw the pictures. Maybe it was in one of the older portfolios of one of the photographers who showed their work at Visa?! If this is the case so someone else probably knows the name. I am still a little overwhelmed as to names. Too much new stuff in so short a time. I am just starting to sort things out.

Oh yess… dear David. I was so mad at him!!! :)) I have about 20 projects in my mind and he pics out the one I want to let die and … gives me the impression all my credibility is attached to it. :)))
What the postcardproj has is a nice visual concept. It is not too complicated in it’s form and sticks to your mind because of the combination postcards+portraits. The point is to find a suitable frame for the content. So much rather than to travel across to nice places and get some tourist cards I wanted to go to critical places and have critical content.

I do have variants of this project which I still want to do. But, one thing is true, especially because they are somewhat critical, it would be good to be able to show work to explain what it is that I want to achieve.

And the tuscany portraits are not that good. I maybe like two out of them. For most of them I had only 10 seconds to make. Thank god it was Italy and the people are easygoing. They probably thought I was completely mad but went along with it. I just did not want to strech my luck. I did two or three takes (people did not move, they were posing 100%, and so it was mainly to maybe get a better quality pic in the darkness of the rooms.

:))
But I think I told you about the odysee.

Yes, it has a potential … That is the reason why I was dissatisfied. But with the open audition now I feel ok. As I said, now it could surprise me.

………..

Just saw new posts while doing a preview

………..

ANA, ANDREW,..

yesss plezzzzzzz,
I would be so sad if I could not fill this little concept with life. Ana, what a pity we are no strangers anymore. On the other hand side, it was so very, very nice to meet you in person. :)
Quite different to write to you now — even here. And it would be great to visit your town. :)))

thanks Panos,
I tried to look at your sets but as before I could not see any photos. I think I need to up date my OS. 10.3.9, a little dated, its fucking me up cause I also cant use the blurb book smart download until I up grade or new puter.
anyway Anna was supposed to round you up and roll over here, downtown, for relaxin times etc, whats up. I think it would be cool if you guys are still down,

sleep tight lassal

i perfectly understand what you mean… same here…

panos

yes same here, sometimes one of the two links you post doesn’t work… can’t remember which one though. if you want i can keep an eye on it and troubleshoot. i’m on leopard.

…DRR will be our light :))

signing off for real now… sleep well bro

you can email me too, if you dont want to mess up the blog…
thank y’all..

innerspacecowpanos@mac.com

GUIDO…

thank you for taking the time to write..this is what i love about photography/life, is just discovering new people…so, pleased to meet you!!

please know that i only review work with the intent to help you move forward and enjoy photography in its many manifestations…to call you an “entry level” photographer was not meant to be degrading in any way…and you said, those pictures were 15 years old..so, by any estimation you were at that time more or less fairly new at making photographs…

let’s see some of your newer work…

LEE GUTHRIE…

now, can you please explain to me why in the world you do not have “Neighborhood” on your website??? certainly your very best work…

i loved that story..so, did everyone….

cheers, david

DAH,

Why indeed do I not have any of my stuff since over one year ago. Technical issues….My web guy went off the radar and I have finally managed to figure out how to update the web.

I am working on that now. I hope to have it up in a few weeks.

Thanks for the compliment.

Lee

David,

The Fault Line work has grown and is still alive and kicking. I’ve had a few shows with a few more to come and have had many discussions with interested audiences. It’s been a great experience. A book is still the planned end result. Thanks for checking in about it.

I’ll be in touch as soon as I’m up your way with hopes to see you. In the meantime, take care.

Your amigo,
John

Lisa,
tired..but fine….

Bob!
thanks again, your words put a smile on my face and I feel your energy! :0)
funny you should mention the “nameless character”, I got a few things to say about him…but I…probably should’nt. I will say this, the 1st time I went to his house, 4th last year, barbie, he dropped in my lap a stack of 11×14 color contact enlargements from the movie set for Hardcore, 70’s movie about the porn industry with major actors etc, the work…my fucking god…beautiful god….amazing work, I perused those sheets for a long time, truly incredible work, when I handed the stack back over to him he drops them back into a ratty old dusty briefcase, to be put away and forgotten about. also the work made in the 80’s, sex objects, if you saw the prints, b/w I might add, absolutely incredible, extremely revealing deep deep work. he is an incredible talent. so…whatever.

anyway, nice reading your thoughts! they energized me!

Lisa;
Good luck with everything. I know what you mean about bank managers, the word “freelance” sends shivers up their clammy spines!!

I did the same when I started out last October, I got the money I needed but had to crawl through hoops to get it…

Cheers

hey sidney

just a quick technical note: try to tag them as sRGB instead of AdobeRGB, if you are showing work on the web. i’m not 100% sure, but i think that is what most browsers default to. AbodeRGB is for print purposes, and while it is a “wider” gamut than sRGB, it has no extra value for showing your images on the web…

now that you brought it up, i realize again that i keep on forgetting about this, but this is actually a major issue for anyone showing color work… i’ll look into it some more… whatever the case, i seem to remember that if you do ‘save for web’ in photoshop, you’ll be safe (safe in meaning you’ll be previewing the conversion to sRGB :)))

cheers

ANTON

Thanks for the tip. Actually, I used to know to put images on the web in sRGB, but somehow because AdobeRGB looked good in Safari I tried that. Now I have gone back and changed them all to sRGB and they look slightly better in Firefox and Explorer than before… but still not as they should. In Safari, they look just as they should, at least on my iBook. I’m still trying to understand why they look so different in different browsers. But enough tech talk for tonight. Look at them in Safari if you can.

Cheers,

ANTON, SIDNEY …

good morning! :)
btw this is a huge issue for b&w photos too. They loose their blacks, become all “foggy”.

If you use the PS-option “Save for web use” or whatever it is called in English, you should be able to see what happens to your picture. It is just like you see it later in the browser (Safari & Firefox look the same to me).
So you can readjust or change color palettes before going into all the work of putting things online.
But some of my online-pics really loose it too. they are soo tweaked to more or less look like the “real” picture, that it hurts my soul.

PANOS

hmmm…
I do see pictures in both links now. #2 gives me a slideshow of 64 and #1 a “list” of 23 photos…
Is that correct?

Lisa
good to hear from you … :)))

ALL
I am wondering.
I really thought I had posted the link to the Tuscany project here before. Yeah and I did too, Bob has mentioned it.
Ok. Back on trak. :))
Anyone who wants to write me a postcard, go ahead! It will dilute anyway. I will be meeting a lot of non-photographers on my round trips now.
BTW – my contact adress is on the website under CONTACT.
Thanks so much! Hope to meet some of you through this.
:))

And now … I need 10 liters of coffee…

panos…

yes.. tripping chimp that i am – i used to keep a sheet of blotter until my friends took it away..
hmm
being funny with a photograph is, i think, one of the most difficult things to do.
i try and think i have got there on occasion.. and i think you have also. as a way of provoking feelings i wonder if photography lends itself more easily to thought provoking.. pondering and pensive feelings than laughter. to get someone laughing with a photo alone is a real challange and once achieved a little congratulation must be due.
regarding other student comments.. no one commented on bnw vrs colour.. it was more about positive crit which i encourage.. by focusing on the work which is working and working out why it works it increases their understanding. that way when i look at their work they know that if i do not talk about a specific photo or pairing that it’s not working.. although i do quickly mention why something is not working on occasion.
positive crits do it for me.
will show a couple of the students projects once complete (with their okay).

lassal

not far from helsinki in stavanger, but a flight costs will probably be prohibitive.
where i live (stavanger norway) is the richest city in the richest country in europe – one of the richest parts of the world.
a rough area here is more like an average area in nottingham where i used to live, (which had the highest violent / gun crime levels in the uk).
will send you a postcard and if you’re ever wandering up here come say hello.
is your address on your site? i may have not looked properly.. could not see it.

beates last day of work today and then a 1 year maturity leave period.. 3 weeks till baby drops.. on the home stretch now.. loads of photos from the past year to show.. looking forward as always.

DAH

any plans for springtime workshops or any in europe to come?
hope NYC students are doing the do and looking forward to reading their reports.

patricia

still here.. still here
x