many of you have seen this book before, but i am sure many of you have not….my first work in print….i publish it again here now only because my friend Masaaki Okada, who was the designer/editor, died on December 21….Masaaki was a tremendous influence on me as a person and as a photographer….my first collaborator…
i met Masaaki my senior year of high school….he barely spoke any English, had few friends, and had come from Japan to help out his uncle who ran a gift shop in Virginia Beach, Va…Masaaki and i ended up as college roommates and close friends…Masaaki was the most talented person i knew at the time …a brilliant man with a sketch pad and painter as well…from Masaaki i learned about Eastern art and about the concept of not making anyone lose face…the single most valuable concept i know….later, i went with Masaaki to Hamamatsu, Japan and met his whole family when i did a story on the Japanese kite fighters….
just after undergrad school, when Masaaki and i did Tell It Like It Is , we were idealists….the $2. contribution was to go to the local church and intended to buy food for the residents of the neighborhood where i did this story… i lived with this family for the better part of a summer….our goal was to save this Norfolk, Va. neighborhood and eliminate poverty with this book…Masaaki and i were both 22…
Bruce Davidson is leaning on me to re-print this book (it pre-dates publication of East 100th Street by 3 yrs)…for only 4 copies of this book exist…..Masaaki and i threw away dozens of copies of Tell It Like It Is, not thinking they were of any real importance at the time…we sold few….after all , we were not important…living in a small Virginia town and not sensing any “place” in the photography world…Masaaki did not think it even appropriate to have my name, or his, on the cover….small type on the back jacket was all he would allow…i agreed…this was not about us, but about the people in the pictures….eastern humility…
a few weeks ago, i stopped by to see Masaaki in Richmond , Va. where he lived, a retired photographer from the Richmond Times-Dispatch…….in recent years i saw him rarely, but we picked up right where we left off….he thanked me for coming and gave me another one of his paintings from the outer banks where i now live…Masaaki was an avid surf fishermen and often painted the land that surrounds me…we talked of him coming down …i knew he would love the house, the space…but, that is not to be….
Masaaki’s paintings will grace my home always…more importantly his influence on me is forever….i did tell him this many times….he always shook his head in disbelief…..i wish i had told him even more…
Thanks for sharing the love, David. The pictures do not have one wrinkle in them, same as the soulful friendship that united Massaki and you.
sorry for the Loss..:(
What not to Remember !!!
VIVA MASAKI…where ever you are…WE DEFINITELY LOVE YOU !!!
DAVID,
Touched by your story and sorry to hear about the loss of such a good longtime friend. I have a few such friends, and know how I would feel about losing them. Recently I was reunited with one such, after a 42-yr. hiatus, and yes, it was like no time had passed. Wish I had time at the moment to write more, I am under a looming deadline, but you know that I know what a life-long friendship with a Japanese gentleman or lady is like, and my thoughts go out to you.
Sidney
mmmmmm…
from
my
heart
to
yours…..
tell
it
like
it
is……
XOX
Friendship… one of the most important gifts… un abbraccio..
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Thank you for sharing Masaaki with us, David. I’ve often heard you speak of him and the profound influence he has had on your life. But when you told us of Masaaki’s death on Monday I did not recognize his name. Such a loss, to you and to all who knew him personally or through his work as an artist and photographer. Thank God you took the time to visit him recently.
The older I get the more I realize that when my time to die approaches, my only regrets will be what I neglected to do, not what I did. One of my dearest friends in the world, Nan Merrill, is within days and at the most, weeks, of her death after years of living with cancer. We talk on the phone every other day and I cannot tell you how grateful I am that I drove the 750 miles to visit her in Vermont for a few days last July. Like Masaaki for you, Nan opened my eyes to new ways of looking at and living in the world. She says she is ready to go and I’m trying to get past my selfish reluctance to let her go. Masaaki, on the other hand, had no time to consciously prepare for his death, but it sounds like he lived his life in such a way that he was always ready. What is hard is letting him go. David, I am with you in my heart as you travel this lonely path. No one can know what you are feeling but in celebrating Masaaki here you are helping him live forever in the world. Take care of yourself and allow the grief to come. Tears are healing.
warm hugs
Patricia
David,
my deepest condolences. thanks for sharing your words with us. alhough i have never experienced the passing of a close friend, i resonate so much with the way you speak of your bond, relationship and his influence on you. the impact of someone like that is such an amazing thing.
maybe it IS time to re-publish Tell It Like It Is!
merry christmas and happy holidays,
jordan
Sorry…MASAAKI…
hmmm…once a dyslexic …always a BURNIAN !!!
Thanks for sharing this with us David. One of my uncles passed away the day before yesterday so will have a funeral to go to within the next couple of days. It always seems more poingnant at this time of year…
Great images and a touching story. The same form of idealism is what got me into photography. I hope you do choose to republish.
Sorry for your loss. Losing long-time friends can be tougher than losing family. Happy holidays to you and all the Burn family.
David:
“and will move now towards some hard copy production in both magazine and book formats….”
that’s what you wrote in the previous post.. wouldn’t know a better way to start than with Tell It Like It Is…
So sorry for the loss, for all he was and for all he meant for you, but smile thinking of him, as you will always have him in your heart, specially through that first book. If you finally reprint it, I will buy a copy for sure. I just love it.
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David, I’ll add my condolences for your loss but also congratulations for having such a wonderful friend for so many years.
I continue to marvel at your early work. Were you born with that wonderful sense for composition or did you have to study a lot to learn it way back when?
Your insight about the importance of not making people lose face gives one a lot to ponder. It’s something I learned intellectually a long time ago but have never been able to consistently put into practice. Sometimes it feels like the issue at hand is just too important, that it overrides any concern for feelings — and maybe sometimes it is, but I suspect those instances are very rare. Then you throw in the emotionally distant nature of interacting with strangers on the internet and it’s just too easy to hurt people. And people are quite different. It apparently takes more empathy than I’ve got to recognize most people’s tolerance levels for criticism, especially younger people. Your experience with brutal critiques in J-school is probably very close to my experience at a similar school. And those were different times all around, well before the self-esteem movement. I can appreciate harsh criticism if it’s insightful and ignore it if it’s malicious, but I suspect a lot of that has to do with my upbringing in a hyper-critical environment. It takes discipline not to project one’s own emotional makeup and tolerance levels onto others. Anyway, I’ve no doubt it’s much better for all involved to err on the side of being nice, of not making people lose face. You’re truly an inspiration in that regard and I’ve enjoyed learning a little about the person who inspired you, albeit in unhappy circumstances.
Anyway, thanks and happy Xmas. To all.
My condolences to you and to the family of your dear friend.
I would LOVE to see this book reprinted. Have you considered going back to show how the community has fared since you did the book? I’d definitely buy it.
I know you don’t remember me, but you were my team captain on the white team during the 3rd Eddie Adams Workshop in 1990. Your guidance and encouragement during those 4 days helped me immensely and continues to do so. I sincerely appreciate that!
Timothy Ivy
David
Thanks for sharing your story with us.
How wonderful to have had such a powerful friendship for so long a time. Our friendships are a gift to us, and the downside of having deep friendships is the pain of loosing them. The final gift is the reminder to live fully, live in the present, and love each other. You seem to do that in abundance already.
…….re-printing this book, will allow the journey to rekindle and travel once again.
beautiful..
David.
Interesting book. Never saw it. On what I see here one can tell you’re tall.
As for the never make anyone lose face I don’t quite agree. Let’s not make a general rule out of it. Some people deserve to and lose face and be compromised.
David,
Sorry to hear about the passing of your friend. Thank you so much for sharing this story with us, and I think it would be a wonderful homage to re-publish and distribute Tell It Like It Is.
My thoughts are with you and all the ones I love. Thank you for the mortality check and bringing the ability to reconsider the important things to the forefront…
Friendship… love… family… art… these are the stories of our lives. Tell it like it is…
Typo:
Some people deserve to and lose face and be compromised.
correction:
Some people deserve to lose face and be compromised.
David,
it is sad to hear that you have lost a close friend. A great man. To share the story about your friendship and showing the “Tell It Like It Is” series is a wonderful way to express what he meant to you.
Last year on December 23rd a good friend of mine, Marco, passed away – he was only 40 years old – cancer. He was my hero and my first teacher in journalistic photography. So this time of year reminds me again of his loss. It still hurts. Loosing a good friend always cuts deep and so far I have no cure for it. At the same time I feel so glad that I had the chance and the luck to shared some time with him. I guess that is all we can do – enjoy the time with the people that are arround us.
A time to mourn,
a time to cherish friendship,
a time to say thank you,
a time to be quiet,
a time to cry,
a time to hope.
Reimar
My deepest condolences for your loss David. From what I read, you friend Masaaki was a good artist and better person, so I am sure he’ll have a good place up there. May he rest in peace.
Honest pictures. It is easily apparent when photographs are made for the right reasons. Beautiful.
DAH,
Beautiful story. Thanks for sharing it with us as we share in your loss.
On the subject of timeless photographs and those who influence us, I have just scanned one of my favorite photos EVER of yours…from the 1994 (?) NG Pow Wow story. I recently “discovered” it at my local library in San Diego where they sell old NG’s. It’s the two page spread of several dancers getting ready…now that is my kind of shot if ever there was one. Packed with layers, filled to the brim with action…every bit of it gorgeous.
Wish I could share it here but all I have is two scanned pages.
If you (or anyone else) is interested in posting it here I’ll be happy to send it to whoever.
David
About not causing others to lose face..that is a hugely important part of Costa Rican culture..at the expense of all else, in fact. The way you practice the art is the way it should be practiced. You graciously acknowledge the position another has taken and then assert yourself in a uniquely non-judgemental way. There is no doubt where you stand on a subject yet you do not aim to obliterate your rival. In this country, not losing face is more important than honesty, morality, reality. It´s a sort of hypocritical dignity that assumes a paramount role in social interaction. I am with John Vink. Sometimes a case must be made for the truth, even if it is at the expense of someone´s dignity. But if that case can be made as graciously as you manage to make yours then i have to say that you have elevated ¨saving face¨ to a very high road indeed, and an art form as well. Not all who practice that concept bother with the niceties of right and wrong because saving face is the only right, there is no wrong.
I was very touched by these early photos of yours because they show your keen humanity and compassion. My favorite is the little girl sitting on the street, as if perched regally smack in the middle of the Milky Way, surrounded by her own private constellation, awash in stardust and dusty comet trails, stony meteorites worshipping at her feet. The way she leans to the left, it´s as if she´s contemplating her own set of planets as they orbit around her, dependant on her every sway and sashay, her ageless tidal pull.
Please. Republish. This limited edition, plus the Cyclos camera bags (remember those?)..raise some money for YOUR hood, YOUR 62 year old ideals. Tell me one person who would not line up to have a copy of this wonderful work?!
Masaaki says ¨be like Nike. Just do it¨…my sincere condolences at this grievous loss of your friend. But not the loss of your friendship. Go forward in the spirit of that friendship, you now speak for the both of you. A heavy burden considering what a fine man this was. I am sad for you, but hapñpy too that you carry his legacy with you. Masaaki cpuld not be prouder.
Merry Christmas, David!
Kathleen
CARRIE and REIMAR
yes
yes
yes…..
friendship, love, family, art…
these are the stories of our lives….
tell it like it is…..
a time to mourn
a time to cherish friendship…
to say thank you….
a time to be quiet
to cry
to hope………
xox
thank you…….
XOX
Sorry to hear of your loss David. Good friends are hard to come by, though you seem to have many these days on this great place you gave us and that must make you feel good for all you have planned for here in the new year. Been very busy will try and participate more this coming year.
Damon
Wendy
YES
YES
YES
yourself
:)
XOXOXO
KAT
:)
:)
:)
xoxoxoxox
my deepest condolences david.
DAVID,
Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend… I know that you closest friends are like family so it must be tough indeed to be mourning such a close friend…
I very much love the story of your first book… Hard to believe you were able to do such an accomplished book while being so young… idealist you were back then and somehow, it seems like years have passed and this idealism is still very much in you… it must be what keeps you so young still and alive… I am sure that this is a trait of your character that Massaki must have enjoyed very much… If you do reprint this book, count me in for a copy of it….
Hope you can still enjoy Chistmas with your family despite this sad news.
Eric
JOHN VINK…
laughing a bit…one of the things Masaaki said to me at the time, was that i was too tall to be a photographer…and too many pictures from the standing position…by coincidence, most of them are here..if you go to my website, you will see the others in the book from a bit lower…after Masaaki’s comment and in the years that followed, i paid a whole lot more attention to my height…yet, the one picture that had a life outside the book at the time, the horizontal of the girl sitting in the road (MOMA exhibit) was shot from my “too tall” standing position….
about losing face…i will err on the side of not making anyone lose face…i probably often go too far in showing respect to someone who later proves i have misplaced this respect…i have been burned more than a few times in this regard…however, once i have been totally dissed by someone , and a line has been crossed, then i too do go the other way …still, i will give anyone the benefit of the doubt many times over always always searching searching for the positive side…there is usually at least a layer than can be tapped for good energy…..
CATHY…
i am pleased you discovered the pow wow essay and i was even going to mention it to you when i saw your rainbow and late afternoon light pow wow picture from Taos (i think)..please hold off on linking that picture here only because i am going to start a series of publishing just a tiny wee bit of my own work from time to time for totally educational purposes…i do know that at workshops and when i do lectures, people really respond when they know the story behind the story…most students tell me this is one of their favorite parts of any class…i always tend to shy away from showing my own work unless forced or for some other reason (as here with Masaaki), but all of my “advisers” are telling me i must do this more..in any case, if it helps some , then i will do it…thanks for the mention of that particular picture..one of my own favorites too…
some commentators here have also mentioned that i show on Burn too many of my students work…actually, i show very little of my students work and i plan to show more of it..why should my students, who are mostly advanced photographers, be penalized because they happen to be students of mine?..many travel from all over the world to advance their work and their standing, so it simply does not make sense that they would not be displayed on Burn if and when appropriate…i do spend about 30% of my time teaching and Burn is a part of my whole educational bit…..so, i think what i will do is perhaps show from time to time the entire class mm show that Mike always produces..without taking away any of the content sent in by readers…adding , not subtracting….in other words, simply more pictures for all here to see….i do not see any downside …your thoughts?
KATHLEEN…
i read your comment after i read and responded to John Vink….i know you are both right….the concept of saving face cannot be placed above the truth…i think my learning of “saving face” was simply quite valuable to me as a young man because i was totally surrounded by the Western macho ” i win…you lose” mentality…win win win..beat beat beat…compete compete compete…so to meet an eastern man with a different view of all of this was refreshing to say the least…of course , any philosophy can be taken to extremes and mis-interpreted or mis-used…thanks for your view on this….
i have read all your e-mails…i need some time to digest as you can imagine..lots going on right now…anyway i would not make YOU lose face by thinking i was not paying attention!!!
so, you are going to stay at the Burn Hotel…cool…the keys will come from either Mike Courvoisier or Chris Anderson who also lives in the building…i will let you know in the next couple of days and need your exact arrival time…
ERIC…
yes, i guess i am pretty much the same as always….i do not think any of us change much after a certain point…slight modifications or adjustments, but all of us i think have the character we develop at an early age….in my case, i was very lucky…two parents with lots of integrity….to the core…as a teenager i tried like hell to break away from their core values and succeeded to some extent…but alas, drawn back to the center….
cheers, david
I like his bold yet anonymous design on this one. I’ve been discusing with friends different sorts of publications as of late (like really small ones) and I’d have loved to hear his views. David, maybe that’s the way it should be republished? As a little bold black and white fanzine? It could almost still sell for 2 dollars, but you might have to put it up to 5.
Merry Christmas David and all Burnians.
Masaaki photographed my wife mowing her little lawn in the Fan in the 1980’s.
We were dating at the time… She was so proud that Masaaki was the guy who
made the picture. Small moments…
JONI KARANKA…
i love love small publications…good idea…yea, 2 bucks would be perfect , but maybe impractical…i will see….this work will also be a part of my current work on American Family …in the preface or beginning or whatever of this larger book and body of work…..but in addition , as a separate inexpensive book, the way it was originally, might be the very best way to go…thanks for thinking…
cheers, david
PAUL…POMARA
wait a minute…you lived in Richmond in the 80″s?? you knew Masaaki?? did we meet?? i lived in Richmond in the 80’s…what i am i missing in this equation? you never mentioned this when we spoke by phone….or, am i just not remembering something obvious?…that happens.
No, No. My wife is born and raised there. I would sweep into town and visit. Long distance relationships can work… 26 years under the same roof. Oh the RTD was such a great paper then and I actually interviewed with one of the picture editors when I was at a conference in Richmond in early 90’s.
Ah it was not to be. Let’s skype some time and I’ll try to fill in the gaps.
David,
My condolences too… remember though that you where lucky to even have such a good friend for so long.
As for showing more samples of your work and from your workshops on Burn… please do so!!
(Don’t know if I talk for everyone here but,) two of the main reasons I spend the time to follow all the essays and discussions here are for my *education* into what other people are doing, why, and sometimes how, and the *motivation* I get to go out and realize my own project ideas by feeling a member of the global family you’re building.
————————–
A serene winter landscape from Cyprus…
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random%20pics%20for%20Web/Tzalavras_Troodos_002.jpg
Happy holidays all…
Ahh the Fan … a few fond hangovers from there … perhaps the only place I could enjoy living in RIC today, and one of the few places there I would still recognize. I was a northside kid. It was a good paper but the editorial page was a different story … I do remember getting the tour a time or two in The News Leader darkroom from some very patient photographers when I was a kid … I hope I didn’t turn on the light.
Happy holidays everyone … I’m filling my wife’s stocking and drinking Bailey’s and coffee. Shhhh … Eugene Smith Jazz Loft … I know … shhh … what’s not to love?
I AM STILL DANCING … I haven’t stopped…and I am in the middle of a big project
and I am still dancing …hicks…hicks…
BURN and BURN until you BURN…
BURN and BURN until you BURB …!!!
i’ve recently lost someone too; just buried her yesterday.
now a holiday becomes an anniversary… strange.
my Condolences David.
My deep felt condolences, David. I hope you did manage to contact your friend’s family in Japan?
I, like everybody else, would LOVE to see this book reprinted. I’d definitely buy it, too.
ATTN: My apologies for the above comment…
ATTN: Can someone please transfer my comment above to the BURNIANS area…???
Thank you in advance for the assistance !!!
P.S again, I am so sorry…I wasn’t focus…:(((
To ALL:
“…“This is my wish for you: Comfort on difficult days, smiles when sadness intrudes, rainbows to follow the clouds, laughter to kiss your lips, sunsets to warm your heart, hugs when spirits sag, beauty for your eyes to see, friendships to brighten your being, faith so that you can believe, confidence for when you doubt, courage to know yourself, patience to accept the truth, Love to complete your life.”
Quote by…hmmm…I am not focused today …
The above post …stays here.
P.S VASILIOS …you BURNIAN soul…we are with You!!!
@David: by the way, you seem a natural to twittering
btw, gallery coming soon:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/pages/Third-Floor-Gallery/217412296794
JONI KARANKA….ALL
funny Joni, i had never even heard of Twitter until a few weeks ago and didn’t even know what it really was until a day before Anton and Kerry signed me up…both said particularly good for when i simply cannot be here…which is going to be the next couple of weeks…with my shooting coming up i will not be in here for comments much….the advantage of Twitter is of course i can simply text message…and texting is my primary way of quick chatting …so it is easy for me and convenient…anyway, we will see how it goes…cool on the gallery…thanks for the link…
cheers, david
Vasilios
My condolences to you! I am so sorry for your loss :((
best
Kathleen
VASILIOS…
interesting how we all continue to be surprised by the two most common things on the planet…birth and death…my condolences to you as well….
NOW we need a new baby around here…anybody???
cheers, david
a new baby around here…anybody??? ………… I am sure if you ask politely south of the equator someone will help you out
.. and in the meantime Simone might just be there … any cute kittenpics?
yesyes – a reprint would be great.. of a still relevant book.. perhaps thats the shocker for me – that it is still relevant, much like the reprint of PJGs vietnam inc.. which was only a little more expensive than ‘tell it’, back then.. you were ambitious with pricing :ø)=
peaceful thoughts for you remembering your friend david.. you have a fine legacy to rekindle.
hmm.. truth.. giving second chances and the like..
it may be from working in the music industry, where only the very best and very worst kinds of people survive.. but i have trouble giving more than the 2nd chance.
there are so many people out there to meet and so many people to learn quickly from and then loose..
i must tell you a couple of stories one day david – or more likely show you the written accounts which might make it into the book.. short stories to peel back the varnish and .. ‘ahem’.. tell it like it is.
must consult my lawyer friend first though.
aphex twin once said that one of the pleasures of living is to hurt people who deserve to be hurt..
that goes a little far for me in it’s self conscious karmic manor.. i lean towards vinks summary having known some of the worst out there.. and still meeting some with the same eyes as some of the worst..
MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL.. a day late and all that..
pea’s.
d
NOW we need a new baby around here…anybody???
——
well, not exactly NEW since little Samuele is already 3 months and half old (and over 15 pounds!)… traces of him are spreading around the house ;)
http://www.abelequaregna.com/temp/samu.htm
ha – abele..
you have a new, never ending photo project..
congratulations
thanks David… you are at least one year inside a similar project, arent’t you? ;)
yes indeed… 15 months and counting.. yesterday on ‘the’ day i took more than 300 of the family.. daily average is probably 50.. there has always normally been a camera on the coffee table
the thing is what to do with them all?
they don’t fit anywhere into my other work.. and looking back through them takes ages.. my intention is to edit into a ‘first year’ slideshow for friends n family, (and for him in later years), to include the birth and all that..
the first 3 months are fun.. gets very busy very soon :ø)
enjoy.
DAVID/DAH
LOVE the Twitter Feed! Seems like a good way for us Burnians to stay feeling connected with you even when you don’t have time to read or post comments in the usual way. Might this work when you’re busy-busy-busy on assignment in Rio?
Regarding the possibility of your reprinting Tell It Like It is…please do! I saw the original at your loft during the October 2008 loft workshop and its raw power has stayed with me. Of all your work that I have seen, this hits closest to the bone. You snapped every photo not with your finger but with your heart. And as David Bowen says, it is as timely today as when you lived it over 40 years ago. Sadly so.
Travel safely back home today…
hugs
Patricia
ALL-
fyi: david is traveling today but will keep in touch
by the way, when on assignment in Rio, david will be posting daily updates through twitter, so we all can get an insider’s view on what’s happening at the shoot… get a feel for what it’s really like… i believe many interesting things to come… stay tuned…
cheers
anton
patricia –
just read your comment :-) yes we did set up twitter especially for situations/assignments like Rio…
cheers
anton
Civi and Kathleen and David,
Thank you for the words; you’re right, it is interesting how we don’t fully accept the inherent strangeness of life in death; I suppose another tragedy would be if we did.
Perhaps we can add twitter to that list! (although, at this point, people would find it STRANGE if you didn’t accept twitter).
Cheers
TO MR.HARVEY and to all BURNIANS out there
“Travel safe and arrive happy.”
Sri Sathya Sai Baba (Indian Spiritual leader, b.1926)!!!
ACMA …. did u jst happen to hear the greek version of a sathya sai baba song ?? my brother did production fr a sai baba album for in 5-6 European languages .. he would be delighted to know if it has reached greece …
David B
“there has always normally been a camera on the coffee table”
yeah, indeed… and a small camcorder too, to catch small clips here and there (I am still forcing myself to admit that in some cases still images are not enough ;)
About “editing”, I’m just collecting the weirdest pictures in a separate folder, literally let them piling up to have a good look in the future if something good comes up..
Death is not strange, it is common. What is strange is how few of us, knowing from a young age of its inevitability, fail to come to grips with it and are devastated when it comes to those we love.
apropos of Patricia’s note — the new TWITTER FEED with DAH’s TWEETS — what does “social media” mean and what makes it worthwhile? i’m following a couple of dozen folks on my twitter account, just out of curiosity … A lot of them say the same things, at least at the beginning — as DAH does — in line at the airport, in seat 26A — checking in, checking out, eating a sandwich, eating a sandwich with friends… perhaps it all just makes us realize that people, no matter how successful or who they are, are just thinking about that next sandwich? Same with my facebook “friends:” — my son in a fun outfit, my dog in the snow, what I think about Friday Night Lights — i don’t know… too much trivial information?
DQ
The trivial is what makes up our life. I”ve not gotten into twittering or facebooking myself but am finding DAH’s twitters to be concise, humanizing and often containing a touch of his wry sense of humor. I like it.
So how do other Burnians feel about DAH’s twitters?
Patricia
When my mother died some 9 years ago, I got the following words, which I want to share with you:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2643/4215504815_301e891aa7_o.jpg
They helped me in some way…
DQ
for some the tweets may be trivial, but for others they aren’t. When the only thing a friend is thinking about is “sandwich”, then this friend is safe and happy, don’t you agree? …and the followers feel connected.
“…“The most instructive experiences are those of EVERYDAY LIFE ”
Friedrich Nietzsche
VIVEK,
I am a fan…and if you take into consideration that my last name is MASS AUDIENCE …
then, yes…Sai Baba’s album …has reached Greece …!!!
THOMAS,
What not to LOVE…THANK YOU,THANK YOU,THANK YOU…!!!
MR.HARVEY …be strong…we are sending good energy…
and also we are sending…hmmm…some salt, alcohol, silents…!!!
Death is not strange, it is common. What is strange is how few of us, knowing from a young age of its inevitability, fail to come to grips with it and are devastated when it comes to those we love.
————————
Much strangeness comes from things surrounding us, trivial and hardly noticed. Photography is one of the nedium that quite apt to bring this up.
YET:
If it was so common, why did you feel the need to report the loss and your grief when one of your friend died, back in the beginning of the year? (Actually, what was less common is that you stopped posting for quite a while after that announcement).
Ere…. I was replying to Jim’s post.
am finding DAH’s twitters to be concise, humanizing and often containing a touch of his wry sense of humor. I like it.
————————-
What’s new?
;-)
the two most common things on the planet…birth and death…
——————————-
Hola david, what happened to sex?…. No sex, no birth…. and plenty of sex may not mean any birth. So:
sex and death first, then birth 3rd? ;-)
Thomas,
thanks for the link. These words show a good way to deal with the loss of a close person. Thank you!
Patricia,
twitter felt rather strange and almost silly to me, some kind of gimmick or modern nonsense.
Even the word twitter sounded very strange to my ear.
After reading several of these twitter related posts here, I dared to check it out myelf and so I spotted David’s twitter messages on this web page. I have to admit that I like it. David’s good sense of humor makes it fun to read. Beiing able to follow the various stages of David’s odyssey – like now in a snow trapped plane – is pretty cool. Never thought I would like, but I do.
However I cannot imagine myself twittering. I am way too lazy plus my life is a bit too banal. Are these messages supposed to appear on a mobile phone or on a special web page?
Good news: some guys try to reanimate the good old Polaroid. They try to create a new kind of instant film using the old production site of Polaroid in Enschede, Netherlands.
Never used Polaroid much myself because it was way too expensive, but I feel it is a nice way to create a very different look for images.
Check this out: http://www.the-impossible-project.com
Best
Reimar
Herve, I think it appropriate to comment on someones passing. But I did not disappear because of her death. We were just going into a three week festival we have every spring here, and it’s pretty much nonstop for those weeks with the coverage. My friend would have kicked me in the rear had I stopped my normal life after her death. Damn bad timing on her part, to. :)
DAH: I am truly sad to hear of your loss. Since none of us ever knows when death will arrive at our door, it is important to say how we feel. I feel compelled to say the very same words you said to your friend, to you: your influence is on me forever David Alan Harvey.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
It remains a mystery to me how a person can feel so close to another at great distance. I always find a way – by some means or other – to remain at great distance, albeit at times, subconsciously. The edge of the table is way far too close to me.
Wishing you all the best for 2010.
Jenny
Jim P.
I believe it is just as safe to call death strange as to call it not strange. Not to wax philosophical on this thread, but it seems to depend on what belief/illusion we choose to accept.
An existentialist would certainly find death strange, because the idea of non-existence is unfathomable.
A Christian or Muslim might find the idea of death rewarding (assuming they’ve been consummate Christians/Muslims according to their respective religion (or at least repent)).
Either way, life and death exist in the mind, and to say it is universally strange or not strange is a non-sequitur… it’s both a neither as everything seems to be at some point in our lives.
I’d like to believe the death is just another illusion; more fitting I would call death Unbirth. But before birth, that, I haven’t the foggiest; you can’t be unborn before you’re born. to be unborn would require to be birthed at least once; perhaps non-birth?
…also the commonness of death doesn’t make it any less or more strange; it just makes it more abundantly non-strange/strange . To me everything is as strange as it is mundane … often the most common and mundane things in my life are the strangest. The fact we naturally become deadened/desensitized to things that are commonplace is purely subjective…
vasilios, I’m not sure your response actually means anything. As for me, I don’t find death strange at all, only the failure of people to make peace with it, knowing they are 100 percent certain to die and that their loved ones are 100 percent certain to die.
Many folks find it unacceptable to believe that this life is all there is. What value, they ask, is all the lessons learned and wisdom gained through struggle and pain if we simply cease to exist once our bodies die. Doesn’t bother me at all. Why do people need to believe our lives have meaning? Who cares. The moment I die, the past will have never happened. But I have had fun in the time I’ve been alive. :)
“…My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I’m happy. I can’t figure it out. What am I doing right?”
Charles Schulz
BURNIANS…What are you shooting …as EMCD once asked…???
only the failure of people to make peace with it
——————————–
It’s not failure, Jim. it’s our human nature (though my experience, Asia, US, Europe, shows me plenty of us do make peace with it). A good sign of your own misanthropy, as you seem to find no rededeming value in much anything, and here of course, anything human. Your prerogative, and to date, one must say it has kept us quite entertained.
In general, misanthropy is a sign, not of understanding what it’s all about, or what it could be if, but faling to keep to grasp with the humanity of/in us all, in fact: a failure to make peace with something so common you wonder what’s the problem: people.
It’s a superb wall that disguises as stoic and realist what are actually the same fears and vulnerabilities others have, save they make better peace with them.
PS: of death and birth as common. yet, the only events that are forever happening singly in our lives and that of others. I mean, the other way to look at it, why they provoke our stirring souls…
Herve, I think it appropriate to comment on someones passing
——————————
I merely commented on you commenting on her passing on BURN, back then.
Her death was momentous enough for you to share with us. What would be inappropriate in finding that for being so common, that death still resulted in an uncommon post from you, that is one where you opened your heart up?
To me, in response to that post of yours, it shows there are true stirrings that death provokes in us, and that the oddity would be not in us having these stirrings, these pains, but feeling none.
“It’s not failure, Jim. it’s our human nature (though my experience, Asia, US, Europe, shows me plenty of us do make peace with it). A good sign of your own misanthropy,…”
What is our “human nature?” Seems pretty brutish to me.
Didn’t Jesus denounce the material world entirely? Doesn’t Christianity argue that people are by nature flawed, the world as we know it hopelessly damaged, and doesn’t Christianity hope for it’s destruction and dream of some kind of perfection beyond this life? Talking about misanthropy.
Aristotle observed that the misanthrope, as an essentially solitary man, is not a man at all: he must be a beast or a god. But I can assure you I am neither. So your concern is misplaced.
JIM and HERVE…hihihi
oufff…BURNLAND was getting so Civilized lately…kinda tedious …hihihi
Thanks, let’s get back to our regular programe…
Jim, you sound like both a nihilist and a hedonist – kudos!
Why are you unsure if my response has meaning? To make that statement then continue on with your own opinion is pernicious at best; you imbue meaning to my statement by responding to it … but then again if you didn’t come out with some snarky statement it wouldn’t be Jim! ;)
Death is natural. And common. And strange.
vasilios, I am neither. I try to see the world as it is, not as I wish it were or imagine it to be. And, no, I’m not Buddhist. :)
Wow gorgeous photos David. How old were you when you shot these?
Love redeems (all that is brutish), Jim. That’s all I can answer.
I don’t care what Jesus/Christianity says, or Buddhism, or whatnot, either what comes out of them fits me or it don’t. Anything else of value they may offer as to “salvation”, must be experienced, and cannot be taught. Not in the bible, and not in any book.
I am the ultimate judge of what the world is, and yes, it is always seemingly to us. ie. Subjective. It’s never about the world, Jim, what it does or does not, is or is not, but always about you, or me, or anyone.
VALERY RIZZO..
i was 22
ABELE…ALL
yes, i am working on American families which is one big circle of my work..it started with my family album, continued with Tell It Like It Is, and on and on …to be my next significant book and being shot now (that is whenever i get time and can afford to shoot on it…it is an unfunded self assigned project)….this little book (Tell It..) will be certainly in the forward or lead pages of the larger book…we are not anywhere near the design yet of Off For A Family Drive, so i am simply guessing at how this will be integrated…
i do what i suggest everyone do..always have a personal project going….it works…keeps your mind clear and focused…gives purpose…the “benchmark” of what you do…..my current commissioned assignments (Natgeo), Rio de Janeiro and Outer Banks, will also have a personal touch….Rio is surely a continuation of my work in the Americas and Outer Banks (which i will also write) is surely a “coming home” type of story since Obx is where i live and feel most at home…so all of it is connected…i would say that a solid 80% of my work is interconnected…even Living Proof (hip hop) is totally connected to Tell It and to Div Soul in terms of historical and anthropological connects….
since the relevant discussion of life and death and life purpose seems to be going here now i cannot help but think that photography for all of us is simply an attempt to “stop” the process..the little moments captured with our cameras do freeze the moment…capture it..for the purpose of memory, information, education, art, or entertainment….or all of those….
sure, life is over for all of us at some point…but, in the meantime, take a picture!!!
in the most simplistic of terms: makes you feel good and might make some others feel good too or enlighten or inform etc……
your work, or a single photograph, might even have a “life” of its own….anything wrong with that?
cheers, david
Achievement
By Robert Louis Stevenson
That man is a success who has lived well,
Laughed often and loved much;
Who has gained the respect of intelligent men and the love of children;
Who has filled his nice and accomplished his task;
Who leaves the world better than he found it,
Whether by an improved poppy, a perfect poem or a rescued soul,
Who never lacked appreciation of earth’s beauty or failed to express it;
Who looked for he best in others and gave the best he had.
And Still some of your strongest work(IMLTHO). Not as polished as a lot of your later stuff, but full of power.
IMANTS,
we are getting there…slowly but steady…we are getting there…
BURNIANS the achivements…
back to my project…
P.S MR.HARVEY…may the travel spirits …be with you…etc.etc.etc…
PATRICIA…REIMAR…ALL
the Twitter bit is an experiment….we will see how it goes…certainly easy for me to do since i tend to text message quite a bit anyway…a way to stay in touch with all of you without having to log on etc. which i will have little time to do anyway in the next couple of weeks…
we are now set up with several others jumping in and really helping us on Burn…i will make formal announcements soonest….the most time consuming part of Burn is the process from photographer submissions to final ready to publish material…it is a back and forth email process that is quite fun and interesting, but does take time…so, this is where we now have help….Anton and i have been working steadily in the last few weeks to set up Burn so that both of us can continue with our own photography without sacrificing our efforts on Burn…it is a quite simple work flow equation…i think we have it worked out….in any case, as far as my “being here” part, we will see right now if Twitter works…i can certainly give a day by day text diary of all that happens and of all that does not happen…
my first trip to Rio, starting wednesday, will be primarily exploratory…..just 10 days…and then i return to write and compile a complete proposal for the long term shoot….or not…maybe we will find it too difficult to do what we need to do…Rio is by all accounts very dangerous for those who move the way i usually move….anyway, we will see…
the only problem i see for Twitter is if somebody steals my iphone…and an iphone just has to be almost as big a target as my M9..maybe more of a target…
alas, the interesting part of all of this will be that readers will soon realize that a picture that ends up in magazine print has a whole very very long story behind it that goes way beyond anyone’s imagination…i have been trying to tell this to young photographers my whole career..this is the most interesting way to tell it….now, if they follow, they will see clearly that it ain’t just about light and nice composition..laughing…that is the easy part!!!
cheers, david
IMANTS…
i never read that RLS piece before that i can recall, but that philosophy is etched deeply into the center of my brain/soul…thanks for that one…
JOHN GLADDY…
i realized a long time ago that my earliest work at age 14 and again at 22 would have a certain purity to it that i would never be able to achieve again…at the time of course i thought my “best” was to come…thought the early work insignificant…but, of course, that is where the innocence and purity came in….all i am doing now is creating a body of work that will make the early work, “early work”….
cheers, david
“Death is natural. And common. And strange.”
Death is like one’s relatives in this respect and consequently, like one’s relatives, to be avoided for as long as possible.
Death is like one’s relatives in this respect and consequently, like one’s relatives, to be avoided for as long as possible.
======================================================================================================
absolutely correct….Death = meeting my Relatives… i experience death every single day since i visited
the country of mustaches..
I didn’t sign up for Twitter to follow Ashton and Demi or any of the others but for DAH’s tweets I’ll have to finally get onboard :))
CATHY…
i have no idea how this Twitter thing will work out…we will find out together…but for sure it will be the first time you and others will actually travel with me from the first moments of an assignment..the fears, the screw ups, the frustrations, the realities, hopefully the joys, of a commissioned piece…
David,
I was suspicious but right now I think this is great thing this travel diary on twitter. I only regret you can’t add some pictures. The diary would be completed.
Twitterrific can also upload pictures, however it uses twitpic or other services.
if your iPhone got lost, you could also text to twitter…
I am not sure, however, if a twitter training (beyond what you already know) is what’s in your head at the moment ;-)
MARCIN..
of course i can add pictures…and plan to do just that..iphone pictures that is….not my REAL pictures…well, maybe my iphone snapshots will be my REAL pictures someday !! funny…well, this Twitter thing is VERY stream of conscious….this is loose here, but twitter is even looser….
David,
Yes, yes, add some pics please, even from iphone, even snaps, or great if it will be a snapshot!
Safe travel amigo!
David, thank you for sharing with us via Twitter. I think following your feed is going to be very educational for Burn readers.
As for the danger of someone nicking your M9, check out what this guy did to lessen the chances that his camera might be stolen in Rio :-)
http://jimmieprodgers.com/2009/05/my-ugly-camera/
Safe travels!
Just the other day I came across the master of pickpocketing: Bob Arno. He gave some local police staff a lesson on how to spot pickpockters and how to prevent it. Honestly the guy is incredibly fast. In front of the entire police audience he took ties, glasses, watches, waist belts within seconds and the victims hadn’t noticed anything at all… amazing guy.
Have a look here: http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/theft-thwarter-tips/
So far – knock on wood – I never lost anything of real value. Someone took one of my beloved shorts in a Beijing Youth Hostel while it was drying…
Safe journey!
Reimar
David, while it’s nice to get these little updates on twitter from you, I think it’s a really bad idea professionally. Why would you want everyone on the Internet to know what you are up to? Where you are, what you are doing? The thinking process. Even the insecurities? Kinda steals the thunder from the ultimate story, in my opinion. Disappear. Come back with a great story for NatGeo. Then we can see what you were up to.
Twitter dilutes everything. Makes it commonplace.
Again I find it fascinating to see how differently we walk (or scoot) through the world. I guess for product-oriented folks like our friend Jim, the DOING of something is less significant than its being DONE. Whereas process-oriented folks like myself really appreciate following the stream oof consciousness that might or might not result in a finished product. It’s the view from the inside that interests me, and that’s exactly what DAH is giving us through his twittering. I love it!
DAVID/DAH
You’ll get there. You always do. Taking a mind-clearing muscle-engaging walk in the dunes is more important than remembering to pack your toothpaste. Just be sure your camera gear is in order and your bills paid before you leave home. All else is secondary.
You are on the cusp of a remarkable adventure. I am so happy for you…
hugs
Patricia
A magic show just isn’t as interesting when you know how the tricks are done. :)
Jim, I don’t see David as a magician. He is a photographer and a teacher. If he were to keep his process to himself, how could he teach?
Patricia
Xmas Day…passed..
We visited relatives..families…
uncle after uncle after aunt after cousins after relatives
after relative
after relative
after relative
after cousin
after friend
after cousin…
the TRICKY part is that u have to accept a treat wherever u go otherwise everybody gets offended..upset..
so every visit is another piece of cake
another piece of kourabie
anither piece of melomakarono
another sweet
another coffee
another mythos
another SOMETHING…
I GOT 11 POUNDS IN ONE DAY…
i cant see my shoes anymore while standing….
everybody thinks i hide a basket ball under my clothes…
new link
NEW LINK
NEW LINK
NEW LINK below…
enjoy..
and remember: either AVOID relatives or EAT RESPONSIBLE…
BIG HUG
Click below…
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif23?authkey=Gv1sRgCNq46_yw3I2a-wE#slideshow/5420404106346187666
Patricia, it’s not only the students that are watching.
Thanks David for “taking us with you” through your twitter posts…
this is the first time I follow someone on this thing… it goes to show that it’s not the medium as much as it’s the user…
I would definitely follow on twitter the recipients of the Eugene Smith or the Dorothea Lange grants too… the thought process, the complexities, the mood swings when working on a project… those are the things I’m most interested in…
thanks for going out on a limb, in order to share the experience with us…
Have a nice trip…
“Make voyages! Attempt them… there’s nothing else.”
Tennessee Williams (American playwright. 1911-1983)
Tech question for multimedia folks:
I created a MM piece using FotoMagico, then converted it to Quicktime movie following Anton’s instructions for Burn submissions. The quality of the photos goes from excellent on FotoMagico to poor on Quicktime. Any ideas or suggestions?
Patricia
Twitter’s greatest contribution is feeding a over inflated ego …….. if you need a crux create a project of your own …………….hanging onto the shirt tales of another only ends up in grief
Patricia,
in FotoMagico, you have several options to export – HD is one of them. It is (imho) also a QuickTime Format, with higher quality however… would that still fit into the specifications?
Patricia, most likely something to do with compression, though I don’t know photo magico and it could conceivably have something to do with resolution. Unlikely though. The compression thing is complicated and requires trial and error for novice to intermediate users. If you’re not already, try using the h.264 standard and be sure your output screen size is as big as it needs to be. If that results in good quality and a gazillion MB file, at least you’ve identified the problem.
Regarding the twitter thing, I’ve always felt disdain for the phenomena but am very interested to see if David can pull off his vision for it. That would be great, if so, though Jim may be right that his legacy will be dooooooomed, doooooomed, I tells ya, because of it. Now I’ll go click on Panos’s link.
Thanks, Thomas, but the images are still poor quality. Is there a better MM software I should be using?
Patricia
I was a little disappointed Panos. Where are all the moustaches? I only saw one or two and they weren’t all that. Nice shots from under the table though. Too much tsiporo?
Sorry for the double post but as soon as I posted this under burnians, the party moved over here!
ALL.
Just discovered that I am being featured on Alex and Rebecca Webb’s blog today along with 14 other photographers who have taken workshops with them. Very happy to be included as part of this group!
http://webbnorriswebb.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/happy-new-year-from-four-continents/
My website
http://www.cathyscholl.com (under construction)
was omitted but perhaps they will add it.
Michael..
hmmm..yes now that you are mentioned…
they are way less mustaches than i thought..
who knows why…
maybe they read my complaints…
same thing with the trash and the garbage in athens…
when i posted that link ( garbage ) next thing u know
they cleaned it up and picked up all trash….
hmmm..
maybe i should keep complaining…
or at least more often…
it works in grecolandia..
mystery..
big hug
MICHAEL,
did you say little …hihihi…
this was major…PANOS got to focus …you are a BURNIAN…
we need some real mustaches …Make Voyages …and easy with the tsipouro…
cause I and DAVIDB …liver not good …:)))
CATHY,
Congratulations !!! and Bravo to you and to other photophilosophers…
THAT’S why I love you …ALL !!!
VIVA,VIVA,VIVA !!!
not for you, PANOS…hihihi…what a pisser…:)))
Patricia,
in which resolution did you put the pictures to FotoMagico? If you resize the pictures to the target format before putting the pictures to FotoMagico, the difference in quality should not be too bad…
Jim, good point on twitter (Imants too).
David, aren’t you getting a bit too caught up in all this i-something thingo? On the other end, it does have entertainment value, and in many ways, might even be about not taking oneself too seriously, bordering on self-irony rather than, or as much as erring on the egotistical. Thin line…
HERVE…JIM
hmmm…surely the twitter bit may or may not be a good idea..as i said when i started, it could be temporary…well, frankly i thought that so many people are asking me all the time what it is like to prepare mentally and physically for an assignment, that some might enjoy the diary like feel of really going through it…there is the fantasy and there is the reality of going right through an assignment….i sure wish i could read something like that from the notes of Gene Smith on Country Doctor or whatever if it existed….Jim , it is not like learning the secrets of a magic trick…the point is there are no tricks….the point is that insecurities are for real and knowing that can be very helpful to some…and as time goes on hopefully the nature of “the zone” could be understood by many more for whom the whole point of Burn is as an educational tool…hurt professionally?? by whom?? to do what? i only took what i teach in class and brought it online in the first place….i know that if i like a great film, if i can get a hold of the director’s day books it certainly does not take away from the power of the film…or an artists notes…or all the lyrics that got written before the song was done…steals the thunder? don’t think so…might make it even more “magic” after all….or, simply skip it and wait for the book….
Herve, you amaze me…WTF..caught up in all this “i something thingo”???…if i were caught up in all this “i something thingo” why in hell would i publish a magazine with only the work of others?? are you not missing the whole point of Burn? if i were into to “i something thingo” why in hell would i have invited YOU to the Magnum Paris party?? why would i have invited YOU to sit in on my class in SF? if i were interested in the “i something thingo” why would i do a blog setting up a platform of speech and thought and pictures for YOU and a whole bunch of others??? why wouldn’t i just do my own website, push my own career and books and just publish my own pictures?? after a comment like yours i really do feel just like doing my “i something thingo” and forget the hell out of the Herve something thingo..
CATHY,
Great photo on the workshop website.
I hope your own website will be up and running soon. Doesn’t do much good to spread the address around when it is still ‘under sonstruction.’ I’m looking forward to sweeing more work of the quality of the workshop photo and the cover photo on you website opening page. Good luck with it.
Guess it takes 2 to thingo, David! :-))))
Thanks, Thomas. I think you may have put your finger on my problem. Tomorrow will be a resizing day.
Congratulations, Cathy!
Patricia
HERVE…
laughing…i gotta love you Herve…i assume we can continue our rap into 2010!! i always enjoy your company, so even if i get a bit piqued with you from time to time, it is all in the spirit and context of good discussion…i do think you go from highly reasoned thinking to rapid fire non-thinking, but we all do the same occasionally…oh yes, go search your own name on Burn…go re-read all the comments you have made about what you were doing in Thailand or wherever…wouldn’t it have been easier to just tweet?? laughing….and hope we meet again soonest….
cheers, david
CATHY…
as you know, i think this a nice picture but i had no idea you shot it for Alex and Rebecca’s class…in any case, congratulations…..you are in good company….
cheers, david
IMANTS…
woe is me…..i will no doubt end up in Ward 712 if i keep hanging out here….or, more likely, i will either be not able to get in, or if i do, not able to get out…..ahhhh, the peace of knowing our place….skype if you have a chance…
David;
“the point is that insecurities are for real and knowing that can be very helpful to some”
Those insecurities are always my biggest hurdle to overcome when I attempt to produce decent work. I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time discovering methods of overcoming them.
I’ve been looking over the project work I’ve shot this year and it drives me crazy… One day I like the work, the next I hate it all; a day or two later back on par again; ad infinitum.
The nights you go out and get nothing, and next night; bang, bang, bang and you know you’ve got some good stuff. Then throw in a few “Man, I’ve invested a lot of time in this, I hope it works” moments!
For example; talked my way out of a potentially dodgy (an angry, drunk) situation the other night (Xmas Eve); and to add insult to (near!) injury got absolutely no photos at all that night. It’s at times like that you desperately remind yourself a week earlier you had a cracker of a night and everything worked perfectly!
What a roller coaster!!! Beats the hell out of my old supermarket job though! :-)
David;
You gotta watch that Imants character… I see he was trying to volunteer us Southern Hemisphere-ites to help out with baby making. It’s a slippery slope you travel when you hang out with such scurrilous rogues.. :-)
ROSS…
one of my weaknesses (and only one of them) is that i always hung out with scurrilous rogues…
Yes; but remeber; I’ve lived a very sheltered life… :-)
All cool, David! I think I just played a string on your violin that was tuned an octave too high. That happens…
;-)
PS: So, how could I twit from thailand on BURN? How about Cathy too?
DAH,
No, I didn’t shoot the photo posted on their blog for Alex and Rebecca’s class.
In fact, as you may recall the weekend in LA I spent with them a couple of years ago did not involve shooting at all. Sadly.
Rebecca sent out an email calling for student updates. What we’ve been doing along with an image.
I selected that Rodeo image to send…which I also submitted to burn many months ago by the way.
I don’t know how many submissions she received but they included me in their blog post which I thought was VERY nice. She took the text from my email to her.
SIDNEY and PATRICIA.
Thanks very much!
SIDNEY and PATRICIA.
Much thanks to both of you!
Sidney/Patricia,
Hmmm…that first message never posted.
Well, you can never thank someone too much :))
HERVE…
hey that is why we are here ….from time to time we all stroke the wrong string…one thing i know about you though is that you always know what it means in the long run…”it” being the discussion itself…and why wouldn’t we challenge or question each other?? it would be boring or unhealthy if we did not….as far as i am concerned you can push all the wrong buttons you want…and i am sure you do not mind me pushing some as well…but, no matter what we come out the other side just fine….this whole online communication process is experimental in nature..i have no idea where it will all go….but, that is the point…whatever we find out will be a surprise…and i like surprises…by the way, the MANTRA of twitter is to only write what you are doing at the moment…those are the INSTRUCTIONS!!! and you surely know what a rule follower i am i am….
cheers, david
CATHY…
i thought maybe you took another class with Alex after the L.A. weekend seminar….
my recollection of that image was that you sent me an email with three choices and i chose that one and dropped two other “similars”….later you submitted it to Burn…isn’t that the sequence? i do love the moment of the image…i only felt the choice of a super wide lens made me just too too aware of LENS which for me took a bit away from the moment…anyway, still a very nice photo..
cheers, david
DAH,
Yes, it went something like that.
As far as shooting super wide…???
I am planning, hoping, assuming I will do quite a bit of super wide (or at least wide to very wide) in India so I’d love to know a bit more about why the lens selection took away from the moment for you.
Because it doesn’t look like what one would see “normally” thru ones eyes? You don’t usually seem to be concerned about “normal” so perhaps it’s something else? I don’t think there was much if any distortion…that is a concern when shooting wide. Please do share your thoughts about super wide… Thanks!
CATHY,
Go wide, girl! I LIKE the wide lens look. My ‘normal’ way of seeing the world is usually somewhere around the 28mm lens view (in 35 terms). So your picture didn’t look ‘wide’ to me at all. I’m looking forward to seeing what you do with a wide angle lens in India.
(Sorry for all the typos in my previous post).
Thanks SIDNEY. In case I haven’t said that enough tonight :)
DAH…
Just doing the dishes and thinking about that Pow Wow shot of yours we were discussing the other day.
You asked if we (I) would be interested in hearing more about what goes on behind the scenes in some of your images. Yes OF COURSE!!!
I don’t know exactly what you have in mind…if you are referring to telling more about the story of why you were there, who was doing what at that moment or if you will discuss technical info as well…not necessarily which lens you used but why you wanted to show more, or less, closer or further away, etc. I’m sure we’d all be interested in whatever you want to share.
I was thinking of this as a result of your “super wide” comment above. I’ve already told you that one of the things I love about your Pow Wow shot is how much story you fit into the frame. You were far enough back that it looked wide but not “crammed in.” There was space between the various people getting ready. Each was perfectly framed. Something about the feel of that I just love!
Cathy S
Thanks for the four continents link. Love your photo, along with the other great stuff there. Good luck in India.
Imants…
If what you wrote earlier wasn’t just words, I don’t see what you’re doing here… watching what other people shoot and reading what other people think about and around photography… instead of focusing solely on your own personal projects…
Whatare you rabbiting on about?
Imants
December 28, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Twitter’s greatest contribution is feeding a over inflated ego …….. if you need a crux create a project of your own …………….hanging onto the shirt tales of another only ends up in grief
this ain’t twitter here
It’s still too early to say, but I don’t think David’s posts on twitter are going to be like the rest of those posts… you (along with Jim) jumped the gun to dismiss this whole thing before we even got to the part where it became boring or banal or whatever…
I referred to twitter per se not what is here in particular…….. there are projects in all walks of life not just photography. You like to tweet around and follow an individual’s breakfast and life so be it
Panos, alittle late I’m afraid.
Thanks for the link to the extended family christmas, great fun, just as it is……
Cheers
all
I’ve never followed anyone on twitter, but I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to David…
Go to go now… working on a project as I’m writing this… have a good one…
………….. chuckle chuckle
THODORIS…IMANTS…JIM…HERVE
the conversation between the two of you(Imants, Thodoris) just now seemed exactly like a twitter conversation…laughing…anyway , let’s just see what happens..i am totally ambivalent about twitter…do not know if i like it or not…my ONLY interest in it came because many many people tell me that if i drop out of comments here that it takes away from Burn…i do not know if this is true or not, but surely i do have a “personal relationship” with the commentators here…since i am leaving now on assignment, i cannot be here as much or perhaps not at all…the twitter suggestion came as an alternate to what i am doing right now…some way of staying touch with all of you without having to go back to my hotel room and logging on….that i will not be able to do …so standing on a street corner in Rio i can do some of what i do here …let’s just see how it works….it does seems crazy to reject an idea before it even starts…if i do twitter i will always have in the back of my mind how it would read over a month…in other words i would try to create a continuity…not just a bunch of “i just drank my orange juice”…how about this….let’s see how it goes for the next two weeks of reality assignment work…if we all do not like it, then we drop it..twitter is not something i thought of , but neither was blogging in the first place either…it is extra thinking and work for me, so if everyone hates it, then it goes….make sense?
cheers, david
Don’t worry MR.HARVEY,
we are open 24/7…
“It is important to do what you don’t know how to do. It is important to see your skills as keeping you from learning what is deepest and most mysterious. If you know how to focus, unfocus. If your tendency is to make sense out of chaos, start chaos.”
Carlos Casteneda(American author, 1925-1998)
everything makes sense !!!
CATHY…
i guess “normal” is not a word that you think of in context of me or my thinking….but, i think you might be confusing normal from an aesthetic standpoint vs. normal from a tech standpoint…i like a variety of photo styles…for example, i like Tom Chambers and you do not…he is not “normal” so you cannot imagine how i could like Tom and yet complain of a wide lens…is that right?
my own photography is i hope “lensless”….i do not think you are aware of any particular lens choice when viewing my work…i do use normal lenses…90% 35 or 50 and some rare 28 for a full frame 35mm camera or the 80 on my medium format….however, i do not care what other people do if it “works”…that is simply my personal choice…
when i looked at your picture of the girl and dog in the car, the first thing i thought was “damn, why did she use a super wide?” ..there is extreme distortion in that picture (i disagree with Sidney on this point)….at least for me…FIRST thing i see is a distorted car door/window, THEN i see the girl and the dog as secondary to the distorted window…that picture would have been so so nice just shot with a 35….why the wide for that shot?? the guys in the background would have been better slightly out of focus anyway…why they need to be sharp?? the power of that picture is the girl and the dog, but you need to tell us that by being right on the girl and the dog….yes yes with the other elements, but with the other elements somewhat minimal…
just a tweak…fine photography is about JUST A TWEAK….
again, that is my personal taste…i really do not like depth of field in most photos….that is why i was so happy to have full frame digi…i can throw the background out…that is one of the main advantages of your 5D…get the background out…and yet you are using a super wide …i do not see for what purpose…i felt the same about your pow wow rainbow….woulda been great with just a bit of selective focus…it is too sharp front to back with no place for the eye to rest…everything is in it, but what are we supposed to concentrate on? everything? you have all the “information” , but with nothing for us to think about…
you say you like my pow wow picture…that was shot with full frame 28, which is as wide as i go…..but i was shooting wide open and only focused on the man in the foreground…the background is as out of focus as a 28mm lens can be at that distance …the elements do go front to back but they are not sharp…i did not want them to be sharp, but flow softly out of focus and yet still be important elements..layered but not too too sharp…
one of the things i first hated about digital photography was that everything was too sharp front to back because of the small chip making all of us use wide lenses cropped for the field of view of say a 35 but using a 28 to get there…a cropped 28 is still a 28 or a cropped 20 is still a 20…following this?…the full frame digi allows us to now have a “film look” because we can work wide open and soften the background…you have a full frame camera…why not try it for the advantages it has??
to summarize: both of your pictures are still nice and certainly not bad…the rainbow and the girl in the car..in my opinion, both coulda shoulda woulda been “great” by simply a combo of selective focus and selective composition..get in…concentrate on the background, but it does not have to be razor sharp…try it, you might like it….
cheers, david
DAVID,
To inject a little balance vis-a-vis the vocal Twitter-phobes, although I personally never had any interest in it as a means of communication before (I don’t own a cell phone, either), in the context of this blog and your assignment in Rio, it makes perfect sense to me as a way for you to both keep your hand in when on the road, and also do just what you are intending to do in terms of showing the day-to-day and occasionally hour-to-hour travails and roller-coaster ride of an ongoing assignment work in a ‘heavy scene’ location as an educational exercise. Give it a serious go… don’t let a few pooh-poohers stand in the way.
SIDNEY…
pooh-poohers have never stood in my way…i would never have gotten out the door with my photography (or Burn) at all had i listened to pooh-poohers…they are EVERYWHERE all the time on EVERYTHING for my whole life…yet, i cannot make a strong case for twitter yet….again, i am ambivalent but willing to give it a try….thanks for thinking….
cheers, david
Ultrawides have been the “thing” for a while now. The thinking is to “put yourself in the middle of the action” while still showing the surroundings. So you get right up in someone’s face with the UW, which of course distorts everything. I don’t like the look at all, but a lot of PJ’s seem to shoot everything that way.
JIM…
well, i think being in the middle of it is the place to be…..and the ultra wide is the “easy way” to do it…but, if you can get everything “in” without going ultra, then i think it simply looks so so much better..on this we agree Jim…i do not like the look at all….
cheers, david
yes..Jim…i tried that fisheye look too…
Ultra boring…
made me Ultra Lazy….
Ultra “cheap” feeling…
cheap thrill…
And if u combine it with an Ultra Exotic location ( aka India )..
u get Ultra annoying results…
Cathy .(big hug)..
but sorry..your photo looks like a typical california WEDDING PICTURE..
Ultra Wides are best for annoying cheap weddings from LA girls with
ULTRA WIDE PLASTIC BOOBS…
if u still planning to visit poor Ultra India ,
plz leave that Ultra Plastic booby Wide lens at home…
it brings me the shits..
or should i say Ultra plastic diarrhea…
Now about the Webbs?
I checked that link…
This is how they make a living..
tOOkind of them to say thank you to their students..
nothing more than that..
sorry..
:(
DAH
Please DO reprint Tell It Like It Is. Magnificent.
Hoping to talk / text /skype today a little later?
ERICA…
call this afternoon please….
and to be fair..
yes there was one good photo on the Alex Webb blog…
from German Romero Martinez/mexico 2004…
the rest…hmmm mediocrity…
sorry
lens choice is as much about storytelling as it is about the right horse for the right course right?
You may need to ‘go wide’ or ‘go long’ to get a particular shot from a particular place(pj/wildlife/etc), but its also an aesthetic choice a lot of the time. A storytelling choice.
There is also the fact that not all lenses are created equal. The canon 24 is IMO rather dull and lifeless, the Leitz 24’s are, however, spectacular.
I say use whatever tells the story the way you want the story to be read.
john.
John…i agree 100%..
its just that Cathy’s photo..
screams canon brochure…screams f4.5…
it does not scream “Cathy”…
it screams…”look at my low noise at 3200 iso”..
buy me…
the camera (5D) is superb.. dont get me wrong..
it shoots by itself…and that is the problem…
but an expensive camera does not
“buy” a style…unfortunately…
Cathy’s photo does scream “wedding”…
sad
…and honestly…since when if u r featured on a Webb blog…
means great?
cant see this connection…like..at all…
5D is great…get a zeiss…fuck around…
enough with that cheap zoom “point of view”…
Doesn’t anyone go gonzo in their own backyard anymore? I’m so bored with the intellectual and the staid fine art; the perfect composition and the soulless commentary; and no, no energy. Being bored is such a waste, so pissed at myself. Found the right rabbit hole that’s been here all along, jumping, may need a rope back out someday. Total success or total failure but no safe photos. Submerging for fresh air. Where is the Lizard King?
David,
I really enjoyed reading your post on lens use, point of focus and composition. Digital photography has really changed things up, and it is important to go back to the equipment basics from time to time and realize why we use them-both in terms of simplicity and creative control.
We we first met in Jackson, I owned and carried only two lenses, 28mm/50mm, and to be perfectly honest the simplicity of that setup left my mind to work on the images themselves, and proved even more useful on the road – a minimalist approach so to speak.
Cathy,
I just dropped in on your website, nice images, it is too bad we did not meet up at the Gathering of Nations last spring- I was covering that event for the Southern Ute Drum and would have loved talking photography with you- Perhaps in April!
Cheers, Jeremy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-EIi7ToTkA&feature=fvw
ahhh tom just opened that pandoras box…
Tom Hyde. Cut the rope. Only way out is the other end :)
Doing the same. Found an oasis of fanaticism, chaos and potential anarchy just ten minutes train ride from my house. I seem to fit right in.
the LIZARD KING..
fucking around in his blue MUSTANG…
DAH
will try you around 2 / 2:30 if that is okay
Tom H
I would have liked to have gone more mad in my backyard for dark light, but I saw reasons not too…thinking I will save the madness for the next neighborhood over.
I would have liked to have gone more mad in my backyard for dark light, but I saw reasons not too…thinking..
———————————————————————————————————–
EMCD..ahhhh..too much thinking…( u saw no reasons ?)
jee…i suggest you go riding the NY subway…
coz riding a “mustang”….hmmmm it takes lots of “madness”…
i agree with you…laughing…save it…( for later )
big hug…
and this one goes to..EMCD..
Not too much thinking at all. I refer you to The sleep of reason produces monsters. Even madness has its reasons.
PANOS,
I guess you haven’t been reading David’s comment(s) here that he would like to feature more of his workshop students work on burn? How is that any different than the Webbs doing ONE post on their blog that featured past students? Sorry Panos. If you’re going to make stupid judgements about Alex and Rebecca you’ll have to say the same for David and burn. I totally disagree with you (no surprise there.)
Also you can bash my photos all you like. I’d prefer that you keep your feelings to yourself where I’m concerned. I don’t bother you with what I think of your crap, I mean photos. I figure if I have nothing nice to say (I don’t) then it’s not worth saying.
I don’t bother you with what I think of your crap, I mean photos.
——————————————————————-
laughing….
Cathy just woke up….
what up C?…coffee didnt work?
big hug
Ah. A cat fight! What not to love. :)
The sleep of reason produces monsters
—————————————
Emcd…if you think you are Goya..
then i’m the bat ( symbol of ignorance )…
one love
..and Cathy…:)
it wasnt just my opinion…
i just agreed and second “other” opinions..
( and u know this..right?)
biggest hug
no, I do not think I am a Goya, rather that the sleep of reason can produce monsters.
Panos’s comment on the 5D is spot on. I got one awhile back, for reasons too tedious to mention, mostly for beer money assignments, but only started attacking it seriously recently (Xmas day photos were testing dof and difficult light). Yes, it does everything a bit too well. The Canon brochure look is all too easy. I just came off a year shooting almost exclusively with a funky black and white camera that did almost nothing well. The 5D is very frustrating. I think that unless you want the Canon brochure look, the imperfect cameras are probably easier. You have to love their idiosyncrasies. The 5D has no idiosyncrasies. Or, hopefully I haven’t identified them yet. I’m trying. The thing that’s bugging me now is that since the damned thing gives one so much control, I ought to be able to use that control to get whatever look I want. Guess right now I don’t have that look envisioned so am concentrating on getting the control.
David’s comments on lenses and depth of field are pertinent to my recent studies. Went to a couple cemeteries in the past few days and played with dof. Neat rows of gray things with text on them spaced several feet apart out to infinity. Focus a 35 mm lens at 12 feet and you can read the epitaphs clearly from 6 feet to the horizon (Canon’s sharpness and contrast are scary). Of course, as David says, you probably don’t want to do that, but its an interesting exercise. More interesting are the more open apertures and range of dof and quality of the blur in different lighting situations. I’m trying to be more systematic than is my wont. The damned camera makes it necessary.
…and C…whats wrong with u adopting and introducing your wedding style of photojournalism..
Actually its the only style that brings money in…right?
whats wrong with getting a fat paycheck? i think i need to follow…;)
Michael…laughing…
its not just the 5D..its mainly the boring zooms and the extreme f5.6 laziness…
i have a good friend that uses a 5D with a leica mount adapter and a leitz lens..
sickening…or a zeiss for canon…also sickening…
but the Cathy 5D use…is program with the zoom…on F5.6…and then ( u have seen the results )..
boom…Wedding photography at its best,,..
laughing…
gear talk: 5D — with a 28 1.8 or a 50 1.4 it is a pretty nice combo — many many many talented photographers use that camera and make more than beer money with it — you can shoot any camera to get boring photos, hasselblad or leica or whatever — a leica lens on a canon doesn’t say anything other than, well, i bought a sweet lens for a canon — BFD — i daresay panos and michael that if you used exclusively canon or nikon or whatever your photos wouldn’t be that much different than what you are making with whatever you use… c’mon…
Hey, don’t bash the 5D. There are plenty of plugins that you can buy to make your 5D images look like crap if your goal is imperfect photos.
It’s just a camera. Put in on manual, set the aperture and shutter speed manually. See, just like a Leica.
DAVID,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.I very much appreciate it. This is a subject I’ve never heard you discuss that is of great interest to me.
I agree with all you say about selective focus. I have only owned full frame digital cameras because selective focus is so important to me. If anything, I overuse it. Although not in the two shots you mention above. I like those two because they have some depth of field for a change!
Okay, packing, packing. :)
dq…Jim…
i agree…a camera is just a camera…( and a 5D is a great one…no doubt )
Laziness…is my objection….and mostly boring lenses…
Panos,
For me it’s 2.8/manual :))
and I don’t drink coffee…so that should explain a few things.
I must agree with you (shock) that more and more I am hearing about “pros” who say P means PRO!
Sorry you don’t like my photo(s). I happen to love them and don’t give a damn if anyone else does.
Probably the biggest lesson I’ve learned here :))
Just don’t use me as your poster girl for those who abuse the 5D. It ain’t me babe!
Cathy…
since the flight regulations changed…
save yourself some space..leave that booby lens at home..
or take the most open aperture with u…just bring your f1.4…
I feel happy about the new regulations..i have to admit..
that will “force” most lazy photogs to leave most of their useless gear back home..
cathy stop complaining…its a blessing..
leave that heavy tripod and all your boring WIDE & tele zooms home..
get one lens only..A PRIME..
..try a new approach…
you’re not a paparazzi are u?????
big hug and fly safe
( you’re my favorite Burn sport..)
:)
CATHY…
my feeling on publishing student work is this: if i see a good picture from an emerging photographer, then i will publish it…from either a submission here or from a student….
all i was saying was that i think it silly to AVOID students just because they are students…i also do not think they should be published just BECAUSE they are students either….so far, 99% of my students have never been published on Burn..
i do not know the exact percentage , but it seems to me that at least 85% of the work published here is from photogs i do not know nor ever heard of…like the two right now for example….now Panos for example if i published him now (and i will publish his Greek photomythology), then folks will say “oh but you KNOW him, you are friends”…yes, i know him…yes, we are friends….from here on Burn! and i know i am going to catch it every time i publish the man, but i swear many could take a lesson from him..he shoots more crap than anyone, is the worst editor i have ever seen, YET his NUGGETS of real photography beat most….fresh, innocent, loose…
ok now the other issue: when do i “know” somebody? after they buy me a beer? after they write to me on Burn? after they take a workshop?
i mean if the only way to get purely published is to never have made any contact with me whatsoever so as to avoid the contamination of somehow “knowing” me therefore being disqualified from publication is simply crazy…and of course there is you…i have met you…we have socialized….i have written to you many times on Road Trips and Burn…we are online “friends”, yet i have never published you….point is, it does not matter…i am going to publish work that is i think provocative one way or another…i would be happy for you if you were published here on Burn, but i will not do it just to make you happy…nor Panos, nor Patricia (who newest work i have not published), nor Imants, nor Eric , nor Erica nor anyone i might like or be friends with IF i simply do not like the picture…it is not personal in either direction….
oh yes, i just read what Panos wrote to you above…you KNOW that would be my advice too…for heavens sake why would you need a tripod in India? or a wide lens? or a long lens? i mean India is ENOUGH already….you would do well to have light weight shoes, do 50 situps every morning, drink fresh orange juice, get 8 hrs of sleep and simply be NIMBLE…you only need to be aware…..think of how great you will feel with just a 35mm and running shoes??? that is enough…guaranteed better work from you IF you go light
cheers, david
Am I late …Can I sing now???
Cathy..
im sorry but i can PROVE DAH right…im a living example..
i have never had the dough to buy a workshop ( although i would love to…)..
yet im published here…i never even bought David a beer either…yet im published here..
David mentored me ( and the rest of Burnians ) for free…yet im published here..
why?????????? oh i know why..coz my photos are crap….!!!
I’m sorry Cathy…All respect to Alex Webb but…….( u know exactly what im going to say…so i’ll keep my mouth shut..ok?)
Actually Jim, it’s not just a camera, it’s also a computer. And a clock! Even tells the time.
Sorry if my bitching that the 5D is too good at everything offended anyone, or my quip about beer money. That’s me sparring with my demons much more than attacking the camera. Art directors love its superficial qualities and it does a great job of providing photos that they want to pay for. And I’m seeing a few photographers who have apparently fiddled with its computer to get a “look” in-camera. Looks excremental to me, but again, art directors are paying for it. Personally, I’ll shoot however they want. 5D is great for that. As for any higher aspirations I may harbor, it’s no doubt more about the vision than the camera, but why not have a camera (and lens) that gives one that much control?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVjrwyYGu2Q&feature=related
Who’s on first ???
I LOVE YOU ALL…
DAVID,
I think both of us should be getting ready to leave rather than spending time here but I do enjoy reading your comments.
As far as publishing student work. Nice to hear what you have to say but I didn’t bring it up. I was only responding to Panos’ comment:
“Now about the Webbs?
I checked that link…
This is how they make a living..
tOOkind of them to say thank you to their students..
nothing more than that..
sorry..”
:(
p.s. I don’t use a tripod or long zoom so no worries there!
PHOTOMYTHOLOGY….VS straight PHOTOJOURNALISM….
ok..couple nights ago i was talking with a very very very smart and beautiful lady…
she told me that i remind her of …
Till Eulenspiegel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till_Eulenspiegel ( Eulen=Owl/spiegel=mirror)
since that Till became my hero…
:… In the legend, he is presented as a trickster or fool who played practical jokes on his contemporaries, exposing vices at every turn, greed and folly, hypocrisy and foolishness. “The fulcrum of his wit in a large number of the tales is his literal interpretation of figurative language.”[2] Although craftsmen are featured as the main victims of his pranks, neither the nobility nor the pope are exempt from being fooled by him…”
The prankster Till Eulenspiegel, depicted with owl and mirror (Straßburg edition of 1515)..
Ultimately, Eulenspiegel’s pranks are not primarily about the exposure of human weaknesses and malice but the implicit breaking up and sublation of a given status of consciousness by means of negation itself (animus) as that which Eulenspiegel embodies. The common element of the Eulenspiegel stories consists by and large in turning the mental horizon prevailing in them upside down and unseating it by a higher one. The German term “Landfahrer” (≈ “vagrant”) defines Eulenspiegel’s social position best and most comprehensively. In his highly pronounced mobility are expressed the animus-inspired Late Middle Ages. Thus Till Eulenspiegel implicitly personifies the constitution of consciousness of this times. With Eulenspiegel’s death occurs the entry of the embodied trickster-animus into the medium of things spiritual, the form of existence of pure spirituality so that the soul has seen through itself by way of its own spirituality and knows itself as living spiritual life: Eulenspiegel is still alive.
This is the photography and spirit i want to bring into life..
DAH called it PHOTOMYTHOLOGY…
perfect..
Panos…
You are a PHOTOMYTHOLOGIST!
Who knew…
All this time I thought you were simply an asshole :))
Hugs. Laughing.
Photomythologists, Photophilosophers,…PhotoBURNIANS
What not to LOVE !!!
Can I sing now???
for Cathy…:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcEhaCJFoX4
from Snoop & Akon
“the conversation between the two of you(Imants, Thodoris) just now seemed exactly like a twitter conversation…laughing” ……yep because it was like twitter it died in the arse, it seems that neither of us found it interesting
Eulenspiegel is still alive
—————————
Like all archetypes, but do not associate too much with the character, Panos, eventually he gets caught and beheaded! ;-)
Gosh, it’s easy to get sideswiped around here. You can be sitting around minding your own business when out of nowhere your work is commented on in a less than positive way. Ah well, comes with the territory I guess.
Happy New Year to all! Life is about dancing to your own tune even if no one else can hear it ;=)
Patricia
OurPATRICIA…
I can hear it…na,na,naaa,dumm,dum,naann,naa,dum,dum…
Well,I hope you feel much better…
May the New Year find you dancing …cheek to cheek with ED…!!!
What not to love…Goodnight from crazy Grecoland…oime !!!
Cathy, that was a great WS you got from David, just before your trip too, about the use of wide angle, DOF, and the comments on your pictures. It doesn’t happen that often on BURN, David going into WS mode. Whatever he wrote, a few negatives, it beats reading for the umpteenth time someone say they “like” your picture(s).
Yeah, and I had nothing to do with THIS debacle. ;)
PANOS, vis-a-vis Snoop and Akon and their pithy song
this is where dah’s twitter-feed would be enhanced by an iPhone photo
(“I tell everybody to travel light.The equip spread around my living room now does not look like anyone setting up for minimalism. All nighter” )
HERVE,
Yep. I agree.
PATRICIA,
Sideswiped, yes. Great word for it!
“Comes with the territory” are my husband’s words exactly.
Happy New Year!
JEREMY,
Thanks for taking time to look and comment.
Did we already discuss that we were both at the Gathering?
Seems like I made that connection with you…maybe just in my mind? Hmmmm…Or was it Santa Fe that we talked about? Sorry, I’m overwhelmed with packing at the moment. :))
I do hope to be there in 2010. The location will be different this year. Let’s plan to meet!
CATHY…
what are you qualifying? i was simply chatting with you, not passing judgment, not suggesting you said anything wrong, and i of course knew you did not bring the subject up…my comments were about the subject , not about you….simply general comments my dear….you felt sideswiped?? geez…i took all that time to write you about your work, your lens choices, and maybe thinking about traveling a bit lighter (which i tell almost all of my students) and you felt sideswiped?? hmmmmmmm
PATRICIA…
where was your work commented on in less than a positive way? you mean when i said i had not published your most recent work? is that less than positive? or were you referring to something else? lost in translation?
DQ..
yes…but, the iphone does not work well in low light…otherwise i would have taken a pic…
’twas patricia, dah, who said she felt sideswiped – not sure when, where – but you are to be forgiven for reading too quickly or not closely enough, as that that pile of (unseen by us in low light) gear on your living room floor and the million other details swimming in your brain are no-doubt more urgent than blog-chat at this point.
i know that, for me, packing for a two day domestic shoot is fraught with decisions of all kinds; packing for a 10-dayer out-of-the-country must be all consuming.
cheers!
DAVID,
I’m not 100% sure what Patricia meant in her use of the word sideswiped but my re-use of the word was definitely NOT directed at you. Don’t worry! Keep packing. :)) I’m in the same boat (I mean plane.)
By sideswiped I was referring to how Panos got involved in our nice conversation and turned something I was happy about (the blog mention) into an opportunity to trash me along with whatever else he could fit in…5D owners, wide lens users and on and on. THAT was the sideswiping I was talking about. OKAY??? NO PROBLEM on my end.
DAH – DOH!!!! – seems i’m the one not reading carefully! apologies…
Ah, the obstacles to communicating on the web. Some day a world war is going to be started by scrambled messages on an online forum.
This blog sure is responding slowly to posts, at least on my end.
In India, Brazil, Vietnam……. cows love doing this to camera bags ….. http://www.iamparanoid.net/ …….. we humans are pretty adept as well(in our verbal ways) and love doing it unless one is paranoid …………..
DAVID
After a week of being homebound while trying to heal from my injuries I’m probably supersensitive, but I read your comment about not having published my recent work as a bit of a put-down. The fact is that I haven’t submitted that essay to Burn because it was clear during your LOOK3 workshop that it is not to your taste…and that’s fine. I was just surprised to see you using it as an example of how you do not publish work you don’t like even if it’s created by your friends or students.
As I say, maybe I’m being overly sensitive.
Patricia
PATRICIA…
i would be the very first person in the world to apologize to you for saying something wrong….so i do apologize for somehow making you feel bad….as a major champion of your work, i would think by now you would imagine that i would make a straight call in any case…both about good work and about work that i do not feel is quite there…i was never suggesting that your work had been rejected by me at Burn, i was simply making the point that no matter how much i might like one thing that just because of friendship alone i would not publish…but it does not mean because of friendship i would not publish because we are friends either…
i was using you as an example of a friend , but not demeaning a body of work that i have in fact not seen more than one or two pictures from to the best of my recollection….i have no opinion of your mirror work because i have not seen it in its totality..period.
so the judgment of that work is in the future…however, you may be a bit too thin skinned on this one…and you should be prepared in the future, particularly because of your success with Falling Into Place, that you will in fact be judged by higher standards than before FIP….there is no “arrival” in photography….
at some point one is judged on their life work…but while you are in the process of doing your life work, you are only as good as your last essay….
hugs, respect, david
CATHY..
of course all is good..it was never bad!! have a great time in India and take a picture i can publish with pride for both of us…i gotta do the same for you……however, eat your heart out, i am packed and in great spirits…fired….and carrying three bags total: backpack, shoulder bag, and med sized roller duffel…i am leaving behind a trail of tears, and wreckage everywhere, but i ride off into the sunrise imagining a better day….
cheers, hugs, david
DAH-
A navy blazer in Rio? Sounds very official!
Your Twitter feed will be intriguing..
Good luck and safe travels,
andrew
ANDREW…
i must now follow your fine work in Brazil….like a music jam….i gotta strum that guitar!!!
i always carry a navy blazer no matter where i am going…usually do not need it..however, i might find myself at a society event, the mayor’s office, a wedding , a funeral …now i do not go too far…my dress up gear is nice cowboy boots, jeans and the navy blazer..after all, i am still a photographer and the only real advantage i can find to even being a photographer is that you can dress as you want no matter where you may be….oh yea, one other advantage to being a photographer…you always have a good excuse to start up a chat with the most intriguing woman in the room…
on that note, i am outta here……
stay tuned….
cheers, david
Let me put in a word for the navy blazer… I am totally with DAH on this one.
So many photographers dress like slobs… and by and large, people expect photographers to be less sartorially correct than everybody else, so at times you can get away with it, I guess. You’d think, however, that people who are so attuned to visual communication would have a little more awareness and sensitivity about the effect that their own appearance has on other people. America has gotten very, very casual about what people wear and how they appear, but that is still not the case in many other countries. There are times and places when you’d really be better off blending in at a level that’s at least minimally socially acceptable… and no article of men’s clothing is more useful for that than the navy blue blazer. As DAH says, it makes blue jeans and cowboy boots into a passable outfit for semi-formal occasions (as long as your shirt is clean). A navy blue blazer is on eof the best gear investments you’ll ever make.
I’m sure the other half here will appreciate wearing a blazer at formal evens!!!
That’s semi-formal events…
GOODMORNING …I LOVE YOU ALLLLL
THAT’s LIFE …That’s life…COME ON BURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtE3Gg_x4Ls&feature=related
frank Sinatra…!!!
I LOVE blazers,jeans,no jeans, suits, bikinis,sandals …I LOVE LIFE !!!
John Pitsakis (John left a comment under Jennifer’s overpass essay), had a look at your flickR site, enjoyed many shots, like this for example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pit-pit/2928052556/sizes/l/
DAVID
“you always have a good excuse to start up a chat with the most intriguing woman in the room…”
Now I see you are prepared to the assignment. Focus on what important in Rio, and in right mood to do it best!
And what you will wear at not formal events?
http://www.pmpnetwork.com/sonofthebeach/beach_group.jpg
John..:)
the only formal events i know are WEDDINGS..
and speaking of weddings…
Cathy sorry u feel bad or trashed or sw-ed..or anything..
i didnt trash u..
calling u a Brochure photographer or the best WEDDING photographer i know
its a praise…aint it:)
you’re the one that called me a crappy asshole after all…
right…( and i liked it )..
why lose your temper?
big hug..( and dont forget the Baby-lens while packing…or a 1000mm tele..
u dont wanna go too close to King Cobra in India..right?)
biggest squeeze & hug
John “I’m sure the other half here will appreciate wearing a blazer at formal evens!!!”
My other half’s favourite line when we were about to go out was something like “You’re not wearing those bloody sandals again are you?”
My smooth reply “But they’re comfy” didn’t really cut the mustard I’m afraid… :-)
Ross it ain’t the sandals it’s the long socks in the sandals
eventually he gets caught and beheaded! ;-)
———————————————-
Herve..:)
absolutely…
not only that but also getting kicked out of the city..often..
(what WS stands for btw?;)
Imants; No; I’m not a teacher!!! :-)
I’ll let you in on a little secret on how to get a bit of personal space… First off you need a pair of track pants (always fashion’s cutting edge!), Pull them up till they are about 3 inches below your neck and tuck your t-shirt in. You then tuck your trackies into your socks and wear your sandals!
I can guarantee that the family will be about 50 yards further down the beach pretending they don’t know you! Of course I would never make myself look so stupid in public just to wind the family up….. :-)
Did I read what you wrote correctly ……”Of course I would never make myself look so stupid again in public just to wind the family up….. :-)”
oh gosh, i’m never going to catch up here!
(but i’ll try :)
DAVID
Thanks for your explanation. To be honest, your apology is unneccessary. Yes, my skin is a bit thin right now, ask Ed. He’s been a prince during this week from hell. I am such a wuss when it comes to pain ;=(
Anyway, am sending you good wishes for a successful shoot in Rio. It’s going to be amazing! Travel safely and twitter when you can. It’ll be fun to follow your adventures and challenges. May there be more of the former and less of the latter…
hugs
Patricia
Excellent! I was hoping we would digress into a discussion of navy blazers! — essential photographic equipment of the highest order. In addition to David’s ability to attend weddings, funerals, and interviews with a mayor, they also help you have cocktails in five-star hotels. So, yes, you are staying a dingy 2 or 3 star place, or a rattrap guest house, but it’s nice be able to stroll into an upscale hotel or club for a couple hours of luxury after shooting in the sweaty tropics.
And in all seriousness, most of the world’s cultures value a certain level of formality, so not looking like a bum with a camera can be very helpful. It’s better to exude professionalism and formality than sloth.
what WS stands for btw?;)
—————————–
Workshop.
BTW, does David’s Leica have a blazer too, in case….? :-))))
oh i thought it was Wiped Sideways..
:)
In the world that I grew up in, ‘WS’ meant only one thing: William Shakespeare.
And however tongue-in-cheek he may have been, I agree completely with what Preston Merchant said.
I was totally serious!
Just finished reading the posts from start to finish. I am little behind. Sorry David about your friend. No mater what your philosophical or spiritual leanings he lives on in his photos and paintings and in your heart. I thought Twitter was nonsense for the most part as well, but I am willing to give it a try to follow David’s adventure. Agree about the prime 28 or 50 mm lens on full frame digi, that’s all I use. I have been a student of David’s in his workshops and they have been life changing experiences. I strive and hope to be published on Burn not because I attended a workshop but because David thought my photos were of sufficient caliber. Nuff said.
Tucked-in, hiked-up track pants are nothing without a fanny pack.
My use of Twitter is not so much about sending out information, but gathering it. I have subscribed to several informational feeds. If I see something that is interesting, and would like to reference later, I post it on a personal blog, making sure to keyword as thoroughly as possible. Tat way, I continually have a growing library of interesting sites, tutorials and general information at my finger tips, wherever I go.
When actively shooting a project, I will also post a photo of the day with twitter keywords. Often those get republished by others that either follow me, or found the post via keyword search.
Brian; “Tucked-in, hiked-up track pants are nothing without a fanny pack” Ahh; so I could have embarrassed them even more? Yet another lost opportunity…
Imants; “look so stupid again in public”
If you strive to look stupid you must commit to it fully; no half measures… Otherwise the missus will never again say “Don’t do that; people know us!” While she and the kids pretend they don’t know you (while laughing their arses off). Well I always presumed they were pretending…. :-)
The problem I find with things like twitter, or any feed that informs me of the world’s happenings, I quikly run out of time to look at it. albeit, the information may be fascinating – but other parts of life require more attention, and rather than trying to catch up, I have to pick up where ever it is now…
So – that being said, I’m picking up on Burn today – while scanning some prints from this past semester…
David, I know you’re super busy and may not read this – I hope your trip goes really well and the M9 works well for the story! let us know how it rates compared to the M8 please.
Sorry to hear about your friend and collaborator, He’ll be remembered through his work and your fans and friends too of course.
I sent you an email a few days ago about a letter, I understand you’re probably more that too busy to respond let alone write it… No worries! Look forward to seeing the outcome of this project!
Travel safe! and Happy New Year
“so I could have embarrassed them even more?”
———————————————————
There’s always room for improvement.
Brian; That’s what my school reports usually said! So now we are back to 1970’s teachers wearing walk shorts, long socks, sandals and the obligatory beard! :-)
Off to the New Year’s Eve races now (it’s the 31st here) to take the camera for a walk.
Cheers
Ross -“So now we are back to 1970’s teachers wearing walk shorts, long socks, sandals and the obligatory beard! :-)” Sounds like a few of my current professors!
Tucked-in, hiked-up track pants are nothing without a fanny pack.
You almost forgot the high peaked ball cap from Larrys’ equipement rentals.
A friend of mine used to have a visor that had a really long brim. He called it his “Super Visor”
Just in case I dont get back here tomorrow, I’d like to wish everyone a Happy passing an arbitrary point in the space-time continuum Day. And you should always pack a tie to go with your navy blue blazer. Ties look good, too.
To Herve,
thanks for your comments and link. Very much appreciated. I’m not always following the Dialogues in burn. they are quite frantic. Besides, I don’t usually speak much. I’ve followed your link too from time to time, your street shots are very interesting. And I respect your comments and viewpoint in general.
See you around,
John
CIVI
“I’m coming back everyday…for your everyday…almost everyday…
it’s sometimes the everyday…
that it makes everyday not like every every day…
falling in love with the everyday…is not happening everyday…”
:)))) and who’s not a writer, hmm? I love this!
PATRICIA
((((XOXOXO)))))
Just cuz i think you need it..
ALL:
I’m gonna be at the Robert Frank show at the Met tomorrow..if i don’t get back online, want to wish everyone a VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR..
DAH
all the best in Rio..can’t even imagine New Year’s Eve there..excess to the excess. NJoy!
best to all
Kathleen
ROSS – This ones for you mate – Shorts, walk socks , I still have nightmares !
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/the-territory/best-dressed-at-the-adelaide-river-races/
Glenn; Pure class!!! :-)
Best wishes…
http://johnvink.com/news/2009/12/new-year-wishes-2010-a-winner/
HAPPY NEW YEAR AUSSIES AND ASIANS …and then the rest of the Universe…
I will be back…I just talked with the Santa Claus …he/she promised to me a good
NY ‘s present…i will let you know the soonest…
KATIEEEEEE… I love you everyday…
VIVA Maradona …VIVA football …soccer whatever…I am still working…
I will be back with more tedious posts…WHAT not to Celebrate…
MR.HARVEY …oime …mama said you forgot your swimsuit …
Be HAPPY BURNIANS …shoot …you never know what the Universe will bring …
see me later…
Kathleen, if you’re in midtown, 41 E. 57th street, you might consider stopping by the Howard Greenburg gallery and seeing Bruce Davidson’s “East 100th Street” photos. I went there today to see it before it closed. I think Saturday is the last day.
John Gladdy, if you’re reading, I now see, or maybe remember, what you mean about the superiority of prints. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen anything remotely approaching the quality of Davidson’s prints. If ever.
Thanks, dear Burnians, for your get well wishes via emails, phone messages and comments here. Turned a corner today and even spent much of the day outside the confines of my home. Yippee!!! I’ll be swimming again next week when the holiday break is done. All is well…
hugs
Patricia
Best wishes for all!! Happy New Year!!!
11:19am in grecolandia…
shaving my mustache now..
i want the new year to find me “clean”…
big hug..
;)
4:20 in NY..
people there deliver..
take advantage..:)
Michael Webster. GOOD!! :)
Now go to the MET and check out the Frank Prints. Then try and find some big glorious Cibachromes (maybe Serrano if you can find him). Original Natchwey prints, anything thats superbly printed and hung on a wall. Then tell me you prefer an internet slideshow. Once you have seen the real thing, everything else should just be seen as a preview. I suspect strongly that a whole bunch of the work so far shown on burn will sing a whole lot clearer when viewed in the flesh.
John
HAPPY NEW ONE everybody..
no idea what is happening on here for a while.. patricia – you okay?
out in the land of snow with sporadic connection..
” I suspect strongly that a whole bunch of the work so far shown on burn will sing a whole lot clearer when viewed in the flesh.”
It did, John. It most certainly did sing. Not that we saw prints of ALL the work published thus far on Burn during that first Burn gallery exhibit in DAH’s lift last October, but we did see enough to hear a song none of us will ever forget. And it certainly didn’t hurt that most of the prints were made by master printer Mike Courvoisier. As we all know, there are prints and then there are PRINTS.
I’m doing fine now, dear David B. Thanks for asking. Please give Tor Capa a kiss from his Grandma Techno. BTW you’ve been missed!
Happy 2010 to ALL…
Patricia
To be fair John, I didn’t say, or at least didn’t mean, internet slideshow. I was talking about properly prepared images for a large hi-res display. Now that you’ve got me thinking about it, I’ll seek out more color prints for comparison, but I’m not so sure I’ll change my opinion. I think I kind of came by it looking at Burtynsky prints at his Brooklyn Museum show, which I thought were recognized as way up there quality-wise. And I recently went to the Alex and Rebecca Webb show and thought the same thing. But I’ve got nothing, if not an open mind so I’ll keep at it. And true, I can’t imagine saying the same thing about black and white with those Davidson prints fresh in my mind.
Should mention too, that prints fade while digital images stay the same. Perhaps that had something to do with my comments. I worked briefly out at Reader’s Digest and spent significant time looking at many classic black and white prints. They had a lot of depression era Walker Evans and Dorthea Langes hanging around (Lila Acheson’s collection, you know). But I didn’t get the same sense of wonder I did from the Davidson prints. Anyway, I’m tuned in now and will take your advice on seeking out better.
And another thing, which I know I’m going to have trouble verbalizing coherently (probably since I don’t have a coherent opinion), but there’s something about the associated costs that bother me. Those East 100th street prints are over $5000 a pop and the book is $350. That denies a lot of people the benefit of contemplating those images. I, for example, won’t be lining my walls with them anytime soon. Perhaps that exclusion of the grubby masses is part of what gives them profit potential, but I’m not so sure. And from the other side, I’m uncomfortable being, in one sense, little more than a courtier for the super rich. There must be a better way. Not saying the existing system should cease to exist, but it would be nice to see it expand and beautifully produced slideshows for large high quality displays may be a good option.
Along those lines, I watched Steven Sebring’s film about Patti Smith last night. Sebring is a still photographer and it shows distinctly in the movie. Although it doesn’t contain a lot of still photography, in many other ways, particularly the way the narrative is handled, it’s my idea of what a good multimedia piece should shoot for. Regarding the gear (5D) issue, it was interesting to see Smith, who’s not a bad photographer, lugging around a big honkin Polaroid land camera for at least ten years. And regarding the not-limiting-great-photography-to-the-rich issue, note that it was, and will be, seen by many millions. Anyway, I think a lot of people here would find it interesting for the photography alone. http://www.pbs.org/pov/pattismith/
Blink and its 2011 http://www.artouko.com/im.htm and the mouse rolled over
Happy New Year everyone!! I have enjoyed 2009 with all of you, and looking forward to a new and even better year ahead.
It’s 3.20am here; I’ve just got back from shooting in town and the New Year is already 3 hours old! For the first time in 2 weeks I’ve finally been able to produce some decent pics, thank goodness because it was getting frustrating.
I’d like to wish all burnians a happy New Year. I hope the year brings you all you ask for.
Take care.
michael webster –
sorry, laughing a bit “I watched Steven Sebring’s film about Patti Smith last night…it’s my idea of what a good multimedia piece should shoot for.”
Well YES! but it took him 12 years to shoot. That amazing vibe-look-feel is quite similar to what I want for moving film for the dark light of this nothing, which is why it hasn’t happened (yet?) Extensive time and resources, etc. on top of amazing creative vision, make his film the quality piece that it is. I salute Steven Sebring and yes I agree there-in is a great model of something to reach for, but I do think in general “good multimedia” is going to have to take on a different face, or we won’t see anything new for a very long time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8436388.stm
as posted from thomas bregulla..
see twitter above…
fingers crossed
Burnians, it has been a great year and a great big pleasure to be here on burn!
I am sending my best wishes to all of you for a wonderful 2010!
Heavy snowfall in my part of the world, but Rio sounds worse… As Panos said – keep the fingers crossed!
It is still 2009 and I am off to the transition party into 2010.
Love you all!
Reimar
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL
THE PHOTO PHILOSOPHERS…2010 work in progress …
PATRICIA LAY- DORSEY on Falling into place
KATHLEEN FONSECA on Landshapes and MY Book
LASSAL on the Meaning
ANNE HENNING on Landscapes of the Season
KATIA ROBERTS on Real Change
CRISTINA FARAMO on in the Mood for Love
LAURA EL-TANTAWY on the veil
LISA LOGHEN on her tearsheets
JENNY LUNM WALKER on keep Burning
KATHARINA on Vignettes
KERRY PAYNE on Cuba , New York and Paris calling
ERICA MACDONALD on the dark light of this nothing
SOFIA QUINTAS on Black Mole Skine
GINA MARTIN on Burning
CATHY SCHOLL on Back to India
CARRIE ROSEMAN on dream By Day
ANDREA EJESTVANG on the Greenland
ANNA BOYAZIS on Aids orphans
GRACIE KIM on Love
VICKY SLATER on Pinholes
WENDY on Cuba with Love
ANDREAC cycling India from East to West
ANDREY BARDOU on 15 minutes
VALERY RIZZO on Brooklyn
MY GRACIE on the BURN book of poems
DAVID ALAN HARVEY on …on…on…on…never ending
ANTON on “Odo”
JOHN VINK on Land Issues
N.ECONOMOPOULOS on Anatolia
MARTIN PARR on Wal-Mart
ALEX & REBECCA WEBB on my Dakota
AKAKY on the Passing Parade
MIKE COURVOISIER on Broadway
MICHAEL LOYD YOUNG on the …U.S gulf Coast
JAMES ESTRIN on Lens
TRENT NELSON on Click
BRYAN FORMHAL on la pura Vida
BOB BLACK on his new Project
BRIAN FRANK on Express yourself
PANOS SKOULIDAS on the Photomythology
CHARLES PETERSON on FELIX and BURN
JUSTIN PARTYKA on JOHN COHEN
BODO on the Cloud Hunter
HAIK on four new BURNING projects,
RAFAL on La Familia Abrazada
ASHER on Burning
PRESTON MERCHANT on the Indian World
TOM HYDE on BURNING with
MARCIN on the Time without light
CHRIS BICKFORD on Mona
THOMAS BREGULLA on Everyday
PAUL O’MARA on the 2.8 Project
IMANTS on booketrouko
JASON HOUGE on the The iPhone Photojournalist.
MICHAEL WEBSTER on Abandoned
VIVEK on Times Square
MIKE HALMINSKI on his note cards
LANCE ROSENFIELD on his Cantina Series
CHARLIE MAHONEY on a troubled Paradise
PETE MAROVICH on the 37th Frame
HERVE on the Carnival
MIKE R on his Memories of him
REIMAR OTT on Aid Convoy to Russia
FRANCESCO LASTRUCCI on the deseo de estrella
JIM POWERS on J.P Photography
ROSS NOLLY on The kids are alright
GAETANO BELVERDE on the Skin Tales
DAVID BOWEN on Manduwala
BJARTE EDVARDSEN on LBK Norge
THODORIS TZALAVRAS on Nicosia in Dark and White
JENN ACKERMAN on Trapped
PAUL RUSSELL on Beside the Sea
MARK W on Burning
PETER.B.SCHAFER on Wonderland
VICTOR BEN TZVI on Israeli Landscape
JAMES W.DELANO on a Thirsting World
MIMI MOLLICA on Terra Nostra
NEVEN GRUJIC on La Familia
JON-MARC SEIMON on Grand Manan
PETER GRANT on the Man behind the camera
ERIC ESPINOSA on Burning in Europe
SAM HARRIS on Postcards from Home
JOHN CLADDY on None of the above
ANDREW SULLIVAN on the Harlem Jazz
SIDNEY ATKINS on the six records of a Floating Life
DAVID MCGOWAN on the Humanflies
MATTHEW NEWTON on the Ditch goes global
DOMINIK DUNSCH on same country-different stories
JAMES CHANCE on our Story -multimedia
MARTIN BRINK on the daily Round
PAUL TREACY on the Chalkers
MIKE BERUDE on the Slowdrift
FROSTFROG on Running Dog
DAVID BACHER on the Reindeer people
IAN AITKEN on Travel Folio
MICHAEL KIRTCHER on the Healing Waters
JONI KARANKA on Mindfist
GORDON LAFLEUR on Joy Kills Sorrow
MICHAL DANIEL on Bring In ‘Da Noise, Bring In ‘Da Funk
JUSTIN SMITH on keep Britain
STRIVINAS KURUGANTI on Bhangra
PATRICIOM. onTrackBikes
VINCENT ASSANTE DI CUPILLO on Dialogue Photo
JEREMY WADE SHOCKLEY on South Africa
PARTHA PAL on the Tribal Haat
RAMON MAS on Bizkaian Landscapes
JOHN LANGMORE on a portrait of East Austin
FRAN M.HACK on Burning
DQ on Burning
GLENN CAMPBELL on Aboriginal Issues
DAVIN ELLICSON on Nordic High
MARK TOMALTY on Hockey Moments
ANDREW B on random images
JARED IORIO on Strange.rs
ABELE GUARENGA on the traces of Samuele
PETRI UUTELA on Passers-by
JUKKA ONNELA on Smoke Collective
SPACE COWBOY on the Space travelers
Emerging Philosophers:
THE CIRCUS KIDS …stay tuned
THANK YOU MR.HARVEY for opening the doors and the windows…
THANK YOU ALL BURNIANS for all your support (KATIE, MyGRACIE,DAVIDB,
ourPATRICIA,PANOS,REIMAR,SIDNEY,THODORIS…)
THANK YOU LASSAL and HAIK for the insight help…
Thank YOU Universe.
Thank you my Family …who still LOVES me …
I feel there is an exciting year ahead!
REIMAR
P.S… the above …is dedicated to ANDREW.W, to MASAAKI, to all the MAMAS and PAPAS who are not here, To all the family and friends who are Here and There …to Stavroula,to Nirvana…we know …you know…ENJOY our work in progress…!!!
What not to LOVE !!! VIVA !!!
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLL
I will be back NEXT YEAR
We love you to Civi :)
jee…
that looks like the Burn Yellow Pages…
Asylum Burn
:))))))
CIVI
manduwala.. halcyon days.. brutal and beautiful.
tanks.
O
so it`s an interesting one tonight.. celebrating the beginning of a new beginning.. digesting all too much food and ‘water of life’.. hiccup..
and yet
the family is incomplete right now as some have gone to the hospital to visit tor capas great aunt who was taken in christmas day and is close to passing..
now..
there is a life well lived..
a fan of boxing..
who has fought hard and won every fresh day of loving.
lived through a poor norway, a nazi occupation
who, after near enough a century of living, shared life’s water with us on christmas eve and reveled in top cats company.
big respect to all here and raising a literal glass to top cats great aunt..
a great woman who touched all.
THE PHOTO PHILOSOPHERS…2010 work in progress continued…
A CIVILIAN MASS AUDIENCE on What Not To Love
Somehow I suspect we might have burned ourselves to a crisp had we not had Civi around to pour LOVE in large doses over our over-the-top flamings. Let’s hear it for our resident PHILOSOPHER/MUSE!!!
warm hugs
Patricia
May Tor Capa’s great aunt pass gently into a land where the water never dries up and babies’ giggles offer unending delight. Her story continues through all who know and love her…
Patricia
Patricia…i second that..
totally agree…
Civi builds and I destroy..
ahhh what not to love????
A happy New Year to all at Burn. Thank you for your photographs and writings.
Mike.
Happy New Year all,
here’s a question, BTW:
If Twitter is sent thru a phone, how come messages are not spoken/heard, rather than typed/read?
Herve, It’s sent via his phone however it can also be sent through Facebook or many internet sources.. He’s using an app on his iPhone to send it. It’s a brief text message to update his doings.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all-
No doubt that 2010 will be another fabulous year for BURN!!!! CIVI, you are amazing….
Cheers,
Eric
Thanks Jason, again: Why not audio messages?
btw, I wish David to be as well-surrounded by the time 2010 rings in to the tune of a Samba, tonight in RIO:
Herve, you can also do audio, you need an additional service however…
Happy New Year to you all!
http://twitter.com/thomasbregulla/statuses/7246278192
#300
MY APOLOGIES TO ALL THE BURNIANS …that I forgot to mention…
please don’t hesitate to ADD and CORRECT …the above list…
I am extremely Happy cause I “met” you alllll…and cause the Greek Santa Claus is coming …
Finally …someone will visit Civilian’s house…
VIVA,VIVA,VIVA …hicks
My usual new year exhortation to self and others goes:
Consume less: Media
Capital (of all types)
Love
Create more: Media
Capital (of all types)
Love
…but that’s mostly the burnian way already, I realise…
Taking a flask of mulled wine to watch the fireworks over the Amstel.
Peace x
Would anyone here be able to give me some advice offline vrizzo@valeryrizzo.com on how to pitch a story idea, in my case a travel article, to a magazine. How does one go about pitching it and if I only have the photographs being a photographer do I also have to write the story in order to pitch it? Can I submit it to more than one magazine at the same time? Thanks I thought this might be something someone here has done before.
Best, Valery
David. beautiful story. I met him with Med at the James.
tried to return your call. can’t get you. call back about your friend. xoxo
VALERY …HAPPY NEW YEAR,
BURNIANS…VALERY needs assistance on aisle FACE…!!!
Check your e-mail …someone will respond in the next 24h…
Wish you Luck!!!
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Happy BLUE moon
dear Burnians……
x0x
Happy New Year, Blazing Ones!
still checking in every day – just oh-so-quietly.
it’s been a rough year.
excessively tough.
but i’m Alive
and i’m learning so much.
and loving so much.
and what the hell else matters?
for you, by Neil gaiman:
“I hope you will have a wonderful year, that you’ll dream dangerously and outrageously,
that you’ll make something that didn’t exist before you made it,
that you will be loved and that you will be liked,
and that you will have people to love and to like in return.
And, most importantly (because I think there should be more kindness
and wisdom in the world right now), that you will, when you need to be,
be wise, and that you will always be kind.”
with love,
katia
.
from NPR…
if you could describe 2009 in ONE word,
what would it be?
**
BURN
LOVE
OVER.
PFART
holly-days…
unholly-nights…
pfcrap
ότι η δέσμη ματιά ενός dodgy λίγο
Wendy:
Oops… Gone…
if it was a silent…let it go…
IMANTS…you …my Greek boy…oime
IMANTS…you …my Greek boy…oime
PANOS …focus…one world
VIVA 2010 …2…0…1…0 or 0…1….0…2 or …1…0…2…0
OIMEEEEEEEEEEEE
IMANTS…you …my Greek boy…oime
PANOS …focus…one word
VIVA 2010 …2…0…1…0 or 0…1….0…2 or …1…0…2…0
OIMEEEEEEEEEEEE
PANOS …focus…one word
VIVA 2010 …2…0…1…0 or 0…1….0…2 or …1…0…2…0
OIMEEEEEEEEEEEE
Imants…
grcolandia is waiting for u..
u can speak but u can also right..
:))))))
for Katharina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO6HbzZPxvc
biggest hug
do I see triple…??? I better cut on the ouzo..hicks
me no Grik boy ……. but an oldie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSqNx7vJLDE
ahh what the heck a repeat kids can watch too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MucVWo-Pw
ALL..
well, so much for twitter and so much for off camera light …in my first hours on Copacabana beach New Year’s Eve, i managed to lose my iPhone to the sea and my SB800 strobe to a thief….
i never give tech reports, but my Nikon D700 took a total underwater (salt water) submersion, and came up working!!…at least for 10 frames or so, then went out…then came back!!! my iphone took the same water hit and is gone gone….
all of this happened of course by trying to take a simple picture…ladies in white were coming to the sea with flowers as an offering to Iemanja goddess of the water….in order to take this picture of course any (insane)photographer must have his/her back to the waves and be backing into the sea…well, you get the idea…i was hit by an unseen wave and knocked completely under…twice actually….Susan Welchman, Illustrations Editor for Natgeo, was holding my SB800 for me at a 90degree angle and safe and dry on the beach…while she was holding the strobe high and creating a nice balanced light at dusk, she became oh so vulnerable and sure enough the SB800 strobe was grabbed out of her hand by a running thief…
but, not before we managed to get pictures out of all this!!
i honestly cannot believe the camera is still working…even just checked again now…i mean salt water submersion…several witnesses saw it go all the way under…it was dripping wet when i managed to stand up and shoot my last frames and before the strobe was stolen…thank goodness the thief waited until the light was no longer so good anyway..
day two Rio coming up…
cheers, david
one for Panos (confined to the oven :) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08&feature=related
I do hope someone got the picture of you getting the picture. :)
And that is the great photographer’s life, crazy and unpredictable. Your trip going to be interesting.
Oh wow.
Talk about a roller coaster read!
Firstly, David, I’m very sorry to hear about your friend, Masaaki.
I’m glad you had the time you did together and I like that the things he taught you you’re now passing on to others. You were both very lucky to have each other.
I hope you do republish ‘Tell it like it is’, besides anything else it kind of completes the circle.
Also I’m really enjoying the Twitter feed.
I don’t know what it’s like for photographers on assignment or what it’s like for others working on personal projects and to me the process is just as important as the finished piece.
Knowing what people go through to achieve their vision makes it more satisfying and poignant to me, you see more the dedication and humanity of the artist.
Really interesting post about use of lenses (please more of these, they’re like food). I think we all need to try different methods to find out what works for us, and we’re moving on all the time.
David, I’m sorry about your unexpected dip :) and the theft of your flash :( glad the nikon held up, sad about the i-phone though, I’ve heard water is it’s main enemy.
Thanks to you all for sharing your thoughts, it always makes for an interesting read when I manage to catch up (you’re all so fast!) :)
Happy 2010 everyone, it’s a whole new decade, I like that.
x
David, I know the feeling — you may have been knocked down not once but twice, lost your iphone to the sea and your strobe to a thief, but dammit to hell YOU GOT THE SHOT(S)!!! Keep going; you’re on a roll. This adventure is going to result in some amazing work. I just feel it in my bones. As best you can, though, stay safe. And try to get some sleep. You’re going to need it! Tell Susan hi from Patricia. I remember her kind words when I showed her my blurb book in C’ville.
Happy 2010! It’s off to an interesting start…
hugs
Patricia
DAH:
Ahaa, so you didn’t take the m9’s to the beach?
ok katharina one more for u then
:))))))))
yeahhhhhhhh…DAH is having fun…………….
good times…………..
nikon rocks…
John..:)
clumsy photogs should always leave the m9 at home..
:)))))))))))
Panos…. 小心挨打！ :):):)
hmmm…likes it..2010 sounds so promising already….:)
spank :):):)
…thats what im talking about…:)
ive been a bad boy…i need discipline…;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k
all lets danceeeeeeeeeee
ahhh…San Francisco was so much fun..
one more classic…
for all my skype friends out there…
plz lets skype…
lets do….
welcome everybody to our new years party….our early morning show…
dance with us…
the REAL thing..click here:
the MAN that started hip hop…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp-is6S_b_g&feature=related
(sorry2Pac..kiddin)
Looking at the current essay, I think photographers are talking pretty much to each other with their photos these days. Does anyone else really even notice photography these days, much less whether it is good or bad? Who cares about artistically framed stiffs and cops? After a barrage of cell phone photos of a suicide bombing in Pakistan or Afghanistan, what’s the point of a carefully shot essay of cops and dead guys on the street?
Who cares about artistically framed stiffs and cops? After a barrage of cell phone photos of a suicide bombing in Pakistan or Afghanistan, what’s the point of a carefully shot essay of cops and dead guys on the street?
———————————————————————————————————–
hmmm…jm afraid that thats a good point..
DAH
never a dull moment, eh? sounds as if the camera is recovered, but in case you want to do something further for it or for the iphone if it is still in your possession, standard advice I believe is to pack it in a ziploc back with silicone packets. I had a camera in the ocean incident, and the other successful advice/action was to keep it near the back of a refrigerator (outside, on top) when it wasn’t in use for awhile, to help it dry out, combined warmth and dehumidifier element or something.
the iPhone has water detectors. if they get wet, the phone shuts down.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1382047
David, sad times when a photographer needs a body (and camera) guard to keep his gear from being stolen out of his/her hand. And you still enjoy this crap?
Good point Jim. If it was me I’d be on the first plane home, maybe that’s why I don’t do this sort of work.
My heart goes out to David over his sea water immersion. Two years ago I wrote off my complete Hasselblad outfit (two bodies, three lenses, finders and filters etc.) when a freak wave hit me from behind. Moral of the story when working by the sea is NEVER turn your back to the waves. My gear was underwater for seconds but was instantly ruined. The damage is done days and weeks after the event when the corrosion sets in. I still have the old gear as a reminder of my stupidity and still the salt crystals grow inside the lenses. Thankfully I was insured but I lost a treasured body that I’d had from my student days.
I’d be interested to see how long David’s D700 continues to work. My Nikon D700 is quite remarkable for it’s ability to work in all types of wet weather. I’ve never dropped it in the sea though…
iphone dropped in the ocean?
just hope that a shark didnt find it..
new studies ( from a greek university ) have proved that the iphone
can actually feel pain..yes , u heard that well..
it is so advanced that the iphone can sense pain especially if beaten by a shark…
If u find it follow emcd’s advice..if this wont work plz bury it immediately face down..
Only face down so u can avoid the new phenomenon called iPhone ghost..that not only haunts
the owner but also the owners relatives by tweeting obscenities in the middle of the night..
sorry but you are in trouble..
:)))))))
sooooo a local guy stole the strobe..????
hmm thats what happens if u dont employ local assistants…
their union and rules are tough in Rio….
:(
standard advice I believe is to pack it in a ziploc back with silicone packets
———————————————————————————-
ha ha…thats exactly what a mother with 3 babies would say…:)))))))))))
DAH:
Sorry to hear your loss. Very impressed with nikon water seals anyway. You wouldnt count that with the M9 of course, but since your photo session was mainly with flash, I guess the nikon is much better for flash photography. But keep in mind that the nikon is much more attractive to thiefs than the M9…
Well, keep safe and happy new year!
Jorge
Do not worry MR.HARVEY,
I told your story to the local community…Help the(insane)photographers !!!
We have manage to gather …hmmm…a decent amount…so you can buy a new iphone…
Do you accept Western Union…???
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S BURNIANS…please focus …I need good energy…2010…new era,aura…
it’s up to you !!!
Jim,
Just saw the photos on your site. I was pleasantly surprised, but I hate to say if someone else published those photos on Burn you would be poh-poohing them, no?. Do you have any particular contemporary photographers, emerging or otherwise that you respect. Or is photography really dead for you, pining for the good ol’ days. At first glance I didn’t like the cops but after a second viewing a lot of thought went into the photos. It could have gone either way. Pretty straight but that goes to say based on his publishing record in mainstream media. What is a photographer attempting to emerge to do? If I took all your commentary to heart WTF would be the point in being a photographer today. Maybe that is precisely your point.
DAH – Sorry to hear about the phone – that is their downside – not impermeable… I lost one to a river once. Got it out of my pocket in time to see the image on the screen fizzle away… so sad.
as for the camera, WOW! keep an eye on it though, as that water dries out it may start to corrode the fine traces on the boards inside. You may still need a new one after that. especially the card slot – if water got in there, but it has a nice seal so maybe you’re ok!
Jim – it’s all part of the game when you’re at his level – as for the theft, I don’t think the thief would have dared had David been holding the flash… But it’s part of the game – go into places where the laws arent regulated as well or just plain don’t exist! Thievery, is a way to put food on the table or buy drugs, or medicine… lets hope it was for a good cause, maybe David will run into the transaction and witness the outcome!
CIVI – HAPPY NEW YEAR! It’s already another day in some places, but only noon here.
Happy New Year to all!
Too bad about the iPhone, keep your fingers crossed with the D700…and c’est la vie avec le SB800, but yes, it comes with the territory… I used to do a lot of kayaking and canoeing, and as I’m sure Michael Kircher can tell you, if you go near the water, you should start with the assumption that YOU WILL GET WET, and plan accordingly. If you launch a kayak or canoe on a river, lake, or the sea, you must assume that sooner or later YOU WILL CAPSIZE. The question is not if, but when… and how will you deal with it? It’s too late to start planning and thinking once it happens. In August of ’09 I was in a canoe that capsized in deep, cold, fast water on the Nooksack River here in NW Washington… naturally, I was aware of capsize possibilities, and had put my wallet with cash, id, driver’s license credit cards, etc., double-wrapped in ziplock bags, in a deep pocket with a tight velcro flap closure… that swift current sucked that wallet out of that pocket in less than half a second and it was gone. Back in Japan in film days I dropped an SLR into a river and it quit working… luckily it was very clean fresh water, not salt, and after a visit to the repair shop, a cleaning and a good drying out, it worked for several more years. As for the theft of the flash, this too is a fairly predictable thing in many crowded situations (not so much in East or SE Asia these days, maybe, but in the US, Latin America, etc.)… and could have happened in New York as well as Rio. Back in the 60s when I ‘witnessed’ a lot of demonstrations in the NY, Boston, and Chicago areas, I knew of people who shadowed pj photographers, waiting until the action got hot, and then in the confusion they moved in with a razor to cut the camera strap and run off with a press photographer’s spare Nikon. I don’t know if times are worse now or not…
KATIA ROBERTS,
Thanks for surfacing! Nice to hear from you. Hope things are going well. Best of luck with your projects in the New Year!
Frank, most of the photographers I like are of Harvey’s age or older. So, not too many contemporary photographers.
I think photographers today are “emerging” to shoot photos for themselves and other photographers. I think we are “post photography,” and photography has become transparent to most people. Images “exist,” and folks don’t really see them as good or bad, just “there.” Interesting, perhaps, for a second or two, then forgotten. We will all, I’m afraid, soon become hobbyists, amusing ourselves with our cameras.
In a sense, that’s fine, too. Just sad that it’s become so hard to make a living with a camera. Sure was fun. I don’t think folks trying do this thing in the future are going to have much fun, though.
There is a photographer / journalist http://www.kevinsitesreports.com/ Kevin Sites – He reported on ten big wars happening all at the same time. and while he was shooting with one camera, a kid came up and cut the strap to his other camera at one point and made off with it. He was hired by Yahoo to go do this… It happens, you have to be prepared.
DAVID,
Well, what a start for your assignment!!!!…. now, you are going to HAVE TO share with us this picture of the ladies in white coming to the sea…. if you have nailed the shot, who knows, maybe was worth it :):):)…. While the ladies are offering flowers to the Iemanja goddess of WATER who would have thought that a reknown photographer would offer up his camera :):):)… Now tell us the truth, did you stay calm and positive or did you let the curses out in a big way!!!!! It does confirm though that Brazil seems to be a place that requires vigilence…. I recall seeing the NG video of your shoot in Salvador during Carnival and if I recall, you also got your Leica stolen at the time….
well stay safe and keep us posted!!!!
Cheers,
Eric
I do not go into the sea. Seas are large holes filled with water that just lay there not doing much of anything and I think it ill behooves me to encourage this sort of behavior.
DAH:
Can two photographers submit a joint project to appear on Burn and can such a project be submitted to The Emerging Photographer Grant 2010?
Thanks,
Best,
Davin
ALL
Happy New Year to all!!!
Wish you all the best for 2010 … and further.
I will be off for a couple of days or so but looking forward to join in again.
CIVI
Meaning, yes … It is all there … I just have to do it. And my new year resolution was a timetable for it! :)
DAH
just read your comment.
pffffffff …. sorry to hear about the dive. Hope you can get your equipment replaced quickly. Camera will probably stop working in a couple of days or so, when corrosion takes over. But ok, nobody hurt – that is the most important. I am glad you got the Yemanjá offering pictures though. That has always been such a huge part of the New Year’s celebration in Rio!!! … :)))
Bestbest
L
Wow Civilian!
what a list of Burnians and their projects. I don’t how you did that? I for one am very impressed.
:-)
Good points, Jim, about photography/ers nowadays. Though about a P. needing a body guard being as sad day today, remember David is in Rio. I think he will be the first to say that could have happened anytime for the last 40/50 somes years, in the condition he was shooting.
I hope Cathy has a chuckle, because afetr telling her she needs only a 35mm, and no tripod, David had something heavier: someone holding a strobe for him! And I am sure that david may see the irony (karma?) of makig these (sensible) points to her, he is now having a much lighter gear to carry. Definitely back to one camera (M9, this one ain’t going to the beach!) and one lens, just as he advised us! :-)
David, sorry for the losses, yet we all know these losses, as avoidable as they seem to be sometimes, are why you have become who you are, a great photographer, respected and admired by his peers (the other greats, I mean). 999,9% of us would still have the strobe and the D700 working, but no shots!
I wrote karma, but notice I did not say bad karma… ;-)
Wow Civilian! what a list of Burnians and their projects. I don’t how you did that?
—————————————
By ad libing! ;-)
I am not working on any Carnival essay….
VALERY,
I visited all your websites …of course I had inside help…
and I have to say that…I am really impressed and I am proud of you…
ALL OF YOU…
Keep shooting …don’t loose focus…be ONLY YOU …cause what we Civilians LOVE is…
YOU and YOU…YOU and YOU…authenticity is what we are after …
I am waiting…:)))
David; What a start to the New Year! Hopefully all the bad luck is out of the way and it will be smooth(-ish) sailing from here on in!
Panos; I thought it was the I-Phone owner who felt pain when the phone bill came in! :-)
Ross – I recently cancelled my service for my iPhone because of that bill and I just moved to a place that ATT doesn’t service. So, an Android may be in my future!
HERVE,
you should …carnival might be your thing…
LASSAL…thank you ;)))
JASON…ah,JASON…maybe Skype is in your future
VIVA !!! come on where are you BURNIANS…MR.HARVEY needs more …energy !!!
As an aside; On New Year’s Eve night it was exactly 12 months since I started shooting the kids project (started on 31st Dec 2008). I spent the night in the roughest pub in town, but everything went well!
I need to ramp the shooting up this year; as I’ve had to fit it around mag work over the past year. And of course the recession has meant I’ve had to work harder and spend more time getting the paying work in.
Here’s a link to the first year. A very hard edit needs to be done on them though. But I would be interested in any opinions.
http://www.photoshelter.com/user/the-kids-are-alright
There is also a Holga gallery. I think I’ve sussed out what it will and won’t do now. I have been surprised about how consistent they shoot. Out of the last 4 rolls I had around 30 that I was happy with (exposures etc). They are great fun to use!
Cheers
Jason; I’ve just got a basic phone because I only use it for txting. My last phone decided to try its hand at ocean swimming too, alas it too didn’t survive the ordeal!
David
Sorry to hear about your dip.
Reminds me of a little adventure I had with a canoe on a local beach.
Important safety tip: do not try to dry a camera in a microwave. (ask me how I know this)
I put on fifty Aussie smakaroos on my prepaid account over a year ago as I got a message saying please use $23.72 or the money will be lost as it is 2 hours to go before the 12 months are up. I lost $22.47
Regarding Jim’s plaint about shooting only for photographers, I tend to agree with his main contention, but am heartened by the fact that with the advent of cheap digital cameras just about everybody is now a photographer. It’s pretty much like complaining that your only market is people with computers, or cars, or arms or legs.
About 5 years ago I was shooting at Muriwai Beach when I made the wonderful decision to walk down an algae covered concrete ramp in a pair of jandals (flip-flops- no long socks though!). Two seconds later for some strange reason my feet were in the air above my head and I landed on my side on the concrete.
Best of all I was wearing a real styley (irony attempt!) photo-vest with a camera lens in the side pocket. The battle between concrete, lens and ribs was lost by the ribs.
Meanwhile 20 minutes and 2 cracked ribs later I wandered out onto a rocky point to continue taking photos. I turned my back on the sea (yes; stupid I know) to sort some gear out, turned back around to sea a wave about a metre above my head about to crash down. Luckily the old Fm2’s continued working… Can’t say the same about the ribs though! :-)
for all still photographers getting their feet wet in video, with the new 5D or another way to shoot HD, a challenge set forth by Vincent Laforet:
Introducing the first user-generated HD Video Contest where photographers become filmmakers, and we all see beyond the still. To kick off the contest, Canon asked me to interpret what story I saw beyond the still, and to tell that story with the new Canon EOS 7D. My short film will be the first chapter of seven, each ending with a still photograph for the next aspiring filmmaker to interpret. Posing the question to everyone, what do you see beyond the still?
My short film will premiere on January 7th on Vimeo, and the contest will begin January 15th. I look forward to seeing what everyone creates! More info coming soon!
http://www
The whole caper is just a canon promo, if one is serious they buy a dedicated video camera life is a lot easier and results so much better. If you look closely one can see the frames jag and stutter especially quick movements close up.
now you made me want smoked salmon and a bagel, whole caper
ERICA…
i have been talking lately with a whole bunch of videographers…all say do not shoot with the 5D or equivalent unless unmoving objects/subjects…they say while TECHNICALLY the 5D is fine, it is just too hard to use in real life UNLESS on a tripod and not to be used for say someone walking across a room or towards you…too hard to focus…that shallow depth of field that looks like film is like film..you will have a hard time shooting documentary style…need everyone on their marks….nope , an HD video camera still the best..Vincent is paid by Canon ….great guy, great photog, but a bit prejudiced on this one i think…
“…LOVE makes for good pics…”
DAH
David, couldn’t agree more on the 5D. If focusing is hard on moving subjects, try and do that when having to wear reading glasses and moving along with your subject… It might be possible after MANY hours of training though.
DAH
most interesting – I’ve been wanting to purchase this one, sounds as if I should not. The older 5D w/o video seems like a very good camera for me anyway. Thanks for the info!
Should say…what I find interesting about the Vincent thing is not the HD or Canon bit, rather the thought of interpreting a still image in moving image – it could allow for some interesting cross over ideas for how people are approaching mm.
was it Robert Frank who used the same approach in teaching? had his students go from a still to a film? was it he?
I remember something about using an orange as the topic…
laughing, just googled and my own website came up first, here’s the quote, i put it on scribbling in the dark
Interviewer: How do you teach film?
RF: We just make films. That’s all I’m interested in. I can’t just sit there and talk. I give the students a theme. I say, “Make a film about oranges. ‘ ‘ So they think about it, and some write a script or a little story board, some just go out, some don’t know and just sit there and look at you.
Anyway, same sort of concept in my eyes, starting with an image, or a mental image…
maybe this is not the place for it, but try as i might through google stalking efforts i just can’t seem to find Jim powers email!
Jim, could you send me an email on morgannamagee@gmail.com?
man…
a day later and we still promoting that canon plastic nonsense…
cmon emcd..enough…what dong u get…?
how can u get impressed with guys like vincent and cheap 7D commercials..
get your self a real video camera..and be the next Cameron…
come down to hollywood…we need u…but hey..get a Real Camera first..
stop trying to make a deal…!and i thought u were a purist…
;)
mnm, you aren’t a very good stalker. Which Jim are you trying to find?
Jim, very evocative water shots.
(She’s looking for you: “i just can’t seem to find Jim powers email!”.)
Yeah, I sent her my email. :)
EMCD-
the 5dMk2 is indeed an incredible camera, huge files, great in low light, a real improvement over the 5d. but you can pick up two used 5d’s and a lens for the price of a 5dmk2…
the 5d2 is a pain to shoot video with, very non-ergonomic. vincent laforet has thousands upon thousands of dollars of gear glommed onto his 5dMk2 to shoot video, as well as a operators, lights, sound etc… however, there is a piece here on the NYTIMES.com website which combines still and video
http://robertcaplin.blogspot.com/2009/12/justin-bieber-all-access.html
shot by robert caplin who, i am PRETTY SURE, shot it with his 5dMk2… not positive, but he had recently posted on his blog a video about a laforet shoot, which he (caplin) shot with the mk2… you can find caplin’s blog and ask him… so, while DAH is kind of right, there are situations where having a video camera in your hand at the same time as a still camera is a good thing, i think the video adds a depth to caplin’s essay…
anyone?
re: my prior comment:
http://robertcaplin.blogspot.com/2009/12/justin-bieber-all-access.html
sorry folks, this is the direct nytimes link:
http://video.nytimes.com/video/playlist/style/fashion/1194811622325/index.html
for me using 5d to make a movies is fantastic and fresh thing. Always when new tool is easy and available it is a next step for creativity for ordinary people. And probably it will give a powerful tool for a new art, just like Polaroids, pinholes or lomo.
Who knows what future will brings.
and very good example: Christopher Morris
http://www
I did this little short last summer on a mk2.
http://www.westway.org/about_us/whatsnew/news?page=copy_of_1245093718
This was all pretty much hand held with focus guesstimation. Took a couple of hours to shoot.
There is a whole bunch of grip and focus accessories available now for the 5d, but for anything serious I would still use my HD kit, maybe with a mini35 if i needed the fancy DOF stuff.
john
if a video should come close to the quality of the pictures one takes with a camera,
a lot of effort needs to be invested into a 5dmkII. The internal mic records everything – everytime you touch or move or focus it, it is to be heard. I’m sure there will be kits on the market converting the 5dmkII into a useable video-cam.
The price slowly comes down, but very slowly.
Half a year I wanted to switch from my APS-C (10d) to full-frame, and had the same decision to take.
A used 5d or a 5dmkII. I consulted others which had both. One convincing advise was the automatic sensor cleaning, and the higher ISO ranges with less noise.
The 5dmkII is worth it. I still have to get used to full-frame, but this camera opens dimensions.
However, in every aspect – also storagewise…
Panos – with the 5dmkII I am becoming purist… more and more. I never used the automatic modes of my cameras, but now I am leaving zooms…
I like having the video facility with the camera (D90) though I rarely use it.
So far I’m yet to see the two put together in a way that improves on them being done individually, I imagine it takes alot of practice and skill to merge the two without leaning on one more than the other.
Also not sure about the tilt/shift on video, I’ve seen a few and they’ve been fantastically well done and completely mesmorising but it ends up feeling too gimmicky.
I’d rather see a beautifully smudgy large format photograph.
test
ok..ok…
emcd & marcin…ok..
im convinced…im buying a canon 7D..or nikon D5000 or D90…
im going to shoot the next titanic…
Especially that big O ( OBAMA ) Video convinced me…
im sold…
used to have a 5d 2 but never used the video. We to try an M9 (used to have M8) but only M8 (same size as M9) and M7 available. Held both in succession: M7, camera; M8, brick. I ordered a new MP and it’s the best M I’ve ever used … ever.
Mike.
Bought a cat, called it D700, not much use as a camera
..can’t swim either
Imants; That’s cos you never bought a catfish… You gotta read the fineprint on the outside of the box.. :-)
Had a catfish once used to saddle him up and ride him into town, the kids a hollering and their Dad’s laughin’
Had a catfish once used to saddle him up and ride him into town
——————————————————————
i used to call it mustang…Prius owners used to laugh at me..
they still do..:)
Gosh, you folks talk about these 5Ds and M8s and M9s as if $4-7000 were nothing! I have one camera, a Canon 40D, that serves me well. That’s not completely true: I have my old Canon Rebel as a back-up. No, I don’t have the capacity to shoot video (yet) but if/when I get into that I’ll try to find a reasonably priced video camera that will do the job.
“The instrument is not the camera but the photographer.” Eve Arnold.
Patricia
“The camera is not the photographer but the instrument.”
“The photographer is not the instrument but the camera.”
or was it
“The photographer is not the camera but the photographer.”
“Whether the chicken crossed the road or the road crossed the chicken depends upon your frame of reference.”
Albert Einstein
Whether BURNIANS crossed BURN or BURN crossed the BURNIANS depends upon your state of mind !!!
Shall I say …I LOVE you All !!!
P.S Faces in facebook …thank you all for opening your “facedoors”
why did Albert Einstein left magnum?
why did Albert Einstein never used a 5D?
why does Cathy loves the 5D?
why does emcd promotes a 7D?
I’m probably speaking too soon since I have yet to try to make a serious video with the 5d 2, but I don’t think I agree with an absolutist contention that a dedicated video camera is better. Which video camera? Better for what?
More difficult? Yea, no question. But you need a tripod or a steady-cam with any video camera. And although you don’t need nearly so much light with a video cam, you give up almost all control over depth of field. Serious videographers probably pay the price of a 5d 2 just to get the ability to mimic a film camera’s depth of field. And sunny f8 is still sunny f8 if you want to keep things in focus. And an entry level video camera is already more expensive than the SLR. If you’re made of money and have someone to lug your gear around, by all means, buy all the cameras you want. So with all that, I’m uncomfortable with absolutes.
No, I think it’s a question of technical mastery and creativity. Gotta figure out what it does well and do that with it.
On a side note, the comment about having to get used to full frame struck me. Man, I never could get used to those small sensors. The 5d 2 was like coming home.
The reason I posted the Vincent thing is because of the concept. Creatives could make much from the idea of how to interpret a still photograph with moving images. It seems to participate you can use any equipment, as long as it shoots HD. Could be a regular movie camera. I just mentioned the 5D as I know some people here own one, but I mentioned the concept because I know many struggle with transitioning into multimedia.
Regarding the cops essay, I’ll just comment on a couple peripheral issues. One, 1997 sure was a long time ago. Two, having read Charles Bowden’s “Down by the River,” which details events that took place in El Paso during roughly the same time frame, I can’t help but suspect that the photographer missed a huge hell of a lot of the story. That is an incredibly interesting place and time. I don’t get that from the photos.
Emcd..:)
u know im teasing u…( especially since cathy left me & went vacations in the exoticland )…
im left all alone..noone to play…
ouahhhhhhhhhhhh….
big hug
Thanks Jim for your perspective.
The Cops essay is definately safe, but from a safe perspective the images are still good. The problem is that if we want to be paid as photographers we have to produce what the establishement wants. Maybe it is better to make a living doing something else and still be a photographer so that we can take photos that have real authenticity, are daring and allow for complete creative freedom. Maybe the current economic situation is just what we need. Look at Annie Liebovit’z career. Her best work was when Rolling Stone was just getting off the ground during a counter culture revoltion when money wasn’t the prime motivation. Then with fame and success and Vanity Fair her work became so commercailized and reflected the worship of money, greed, and celebrity. Today’s emerging photographers need to reinvent the medium so that it not just reflects but leads a new revolution of ideas. So based on that I still think there is hope.
With respect to the idea of shooting video vs still. I have contempled upgrading my Nikon D3 for the D3S which shoots 24 fps in 720p. It might be interesting creatively to explore. With a D3 or 5D you can shoot up to 9 fps no? I liked Dhiraj Singh’s treatment of these rapid shots strung together that produce almost a cinema based feel in “My Name is Dechen”, but he got cut up for it on Burn. I have often thought of myself kind of like a film director but using still images to tell a story or set a mood. Often the complaint on Burn is that the edit is too long, and could have been cut down. Seems you can’t win. I think as David often says we have to stay loose, even when we view and contemplat essays. The medium is evolving. I don’t think moving images will replace still photos. There is something magical and ethereal in capturing a moment in time, that moving images can not compete with. Two different and complementary visual vehicles.
Two different…… visual vehicles.
—————————————————-
absolutely correct
Panos, is it wrong to love my plastic fantastic? I feel so dirty.
Frank, the 5D2 probably shoots more like 4 shots per second, max, 7D is 8fps, I am not sure you meant to use video as a rapid shot catcher (24 or 30 fps), but is it possible to single out everyone of these 24/30 shots at editing time?
Even so, I even doubt that stringing 4 shots a second, in an essay, makes for interesting and prolonged creative work. Maybe one every second or more, if the subject can take it, but hardly a technique to be duplicated to tell all stories…
The problem is: do we want to do multi-media or photography? When you think of it, ultimately 2 different mediums. We can “evolve” photography all we want, in the end, a photo is a photo. For me, MM is 99% of the time, merely a better way to tell a story, a choice.
Whereas, with a photo, the story, its visuals I mean, is already in the frame (even though sometimes, it may wait years to really tells it).
To make pictures just a part of a MM installation/edit is to basically take the photography out of a photograph, a perfectly viable artistic concept (which Bob Black pursues, in more ways than one, for example), but one a “real” photographer needs to grapple with and come to terms with, if going that route.
BTW, I missed that Jerome’s essay was shot in 1997. What was the logic in showing this 1997 work on an hackneyed subject from a professional photographer? I mean, there must be zillions of such essays, AND photographers if we forget the year and the emergingness. Someone mentionned Weegee in the comments, but Weegee’s shots are always momentous, they exist totally without the context of the day’s event when he shot them.
David’s prerogative, assuredly, but talking about older pictures, this site is doing marvelous work with all kind of photography from different periods:
http://www.americansuburbx.com/
the problem with YOU , YOUNG T.
is that..u actually know how to use it…
( there goes my axiom degrade it into just a theory… )
;)
“Posing the question to everyone, what do you see beyond the still?”
Ah see them gol dang revenooers, them gubmint men trying to put me outta bidness. Next time Ah sees one of them, Ah’m a-gonna cut them fellers a new one with this shotgun raht cheer.
Re SLR Video: A lot of people seem to be under the misconception that the 5D MKII (and the like) will solve all of their video needs. This really is not the case. Although this is a great technological step and one can create some great looking imagery (mostly due to the shallow depth of field)——I really don’t see these cameras as being truley practical option. The camera is very light (for a video camera) and has no vibration/movement control. As already mentioned you can shoot static from a tripod ok… but obviously that is pretty restricting. Also, yes, focusing can be a major issue. Another issue is the position of the fixed LCD screen on the back of the camera. Great for chimping stills, but not so great for shooting live and low and high angles.
As far as I could see no one has mentioned audio in this discussion. This is huge! The audio from the SLR’s is bad (with an external mic). The best option here for decent quality is record externally, which means that you then have sync later in your editing software.
If anyone is really serious about taking the step into video, a dedicated video camera is really the only way to go. Even if it is a small prosumer model for $500-$1000, i think you will find it a lot more practical than an SLR and a LOT cheaper. Add on a $200 shotgun mic and you are ready to roll!
Just my 2c.
HApPy NeW YeAr aLL!
Jim Powers wrote “…I think photographers today are “emerging” to shoot photos for themselves and other photographers. I think we are “post photography,” and photography has become transparent to most people. Images “exist,” and folks don’t really see them as good or bad, just “there.” Interesting, perhaps, for a second or two, then forgotten. We will all, I’m afraid, soon become hobbyists, amusing ourselves with our cameras.
In a sense, that’s fine, too. Just sad that it’s become so hard to make a living with a camera. Sure was fun. I don’t think folks trying do this thing in the future are going to have much fun, though…”
I almost, ALMOST agree… but I can’t. I have a box sitting in my living room here filled with negatives from the late 30’s into the 40’s… family stuff shot by a late relative perhaps? I have another box filled with a collection of Brownies, Agfas, and even a nice German Wirgin with a sticky shutter… Ever since George Eastman make the Brownie, The camera has been in the hands of the public at large. Every year, that number grew… Polaroids made the fun more exciting with instant prints in the palm of your hand in just moments… Today, we have cell phones with cameras, most menus being too complicated or confusing for the average non-techy to use. something as simple as a lint ball from your pocket can render the camera useless because it’ll wedge into the tiny recess of the lens and most people can’t figure out how to remove it.
Sure the digital camera, point and shoot, and cheap SLR are in the hands of millions. No different really than back in the 40’s when medium format was the film of choice… It’s not that everyone and their cat has a camera, it’s WHO has the vision and who has the camera in their hands and how they shoot that’s going to make the difference…
I did the workshop in NY with David in October, and MAN! what a city! people everywhere! walk down the block and you feel like you’ve passed by 4 different countries. The cities are stacked up in buildings, each with a little grocery store and bakery right around the block… It blew me away, because everywhere else in the country I’ve ever been, the story seems to be – Kids no longer play out doors, computers and games keep everyone occupied, the US seems to lack the social culture the rest of the world has… So, Even though there are 30 million or so with cameras in the phone, or on their wrist, what are they taking photos of? their dog licking the baby, the neighbor’s flowers, the cloud that looked like a duck, the shit faced dude at the house party, them selves? Then when some BIG huge event does happen – oooh say, like when a couple of planes flown by trained religious warriors destroyed the lives of thousands in New York, How can you NOT miss such an event… Whip out that camera!What ever it is and shoot! This is something to remember! This is history in the making!! it was so obvious for the public at large.
To lean on the crutch and say, ‘ooooh everyone else is going to do it for me, I’m not needed anymore’ is a show of defeat and failure. Ok so you’ve failed at being the great visionary of your time… but your time isn’t up! I think the world is just waiting for the next HCB to show the world that the camera can take simple yet emotional photos.
But I do agree with you about many contemporary Photographers or “artists.” Tn general many seem to feel that commercialism is evil. If you’re doing your work to make money you’re a “sell out” and to be a sell out is a sin.
I think what the real problem may be is, the US lacks a national identity and unity. We lack the affection for one another that seems to exist in other countries. It’s a mindset of all for myself. I do this for me, I do that for me. me me me!!! Well what about the good of everyone else!? Seeing photographs today don’t invoke the emotional responses that it used to. Photos are seen everywhere in commerce. and THAT is why it’s a sin… So many artists (especially in musicians) it seems that you can’t make money doing it. It must be for you or not at all. Do it for your enjoyment, not to sell to millions and make millions off of it!
But their argument falls apart when you ask them about all the people in clubs, or with iPods – the mass audience. People that have no musical talents and want to enjoy music. Who would be left to entertain them if all the artist did it just for them selves! It’s obviously a very selfish opinion and their only comeback is “oh they just make music for the money! They don’t care about the audience” if that were the case – then they could be doing something entirely different for money. no one says they have to make music… I suspect some reeducation of the public needs to take place… the punk/grunge era affected the US in a negative way, leaving youngsters with selfish attitudes about what it means to be an artist…
Sorry that was so long.
Hey – speaking of SLR video…
This past semester I was working in a multimedia class producing a short piece about something personal. So I did an Autobiography…
It’s a lot of stills with video – all video shot with a Nikon D90…
I wish there was more control over the aperture! I want to be more creative with the depth of field!!
oh well.. Here it is: http://www.jasonhouge.com/Bio.html
You will need a good strong connection. otherwise, let it load… I may put an alternate version on youtube to speed it up some.
ONE NOTE!!! before you watch – About the end of the first section – the script was recorded right after being at the workshop and David said he’d like to get all of our slideshows up on Burn – I know he’s busy and there are so many other works to be shown here already. I don’t think it was possible because of the amount of work needed to do it… I’m still hoping mine get shown! but, that’s for David and Anton to decide…
and if I wanted to make movies, I’d buy a movie camera, but since I don’t, I ain’t. Saves a ton of money.
Akaky, Kodak Zi8, 150$ on AMAZON not long ago. 1080/30fps, fits in shirt pocket. May not be up to semi-pro levels, but twitter is not literature either….
Yea, everyone thinks going in that they can make videos on the cheap, but it ain’t so. Video is like a sailboat. Just a big sucking hole that you throw your money in. Kid yourself all you want, but an entry level camera is almost $3000. And that little Mac won’t cut it any more. You need a MacPro with RAM and several hard drives. And software is expensive. At minimum, you need something equivalent to Final Cut, After Effects and Squeeze. Them ball head tripods ain’t cheap. Then you realize you need a wide angle lens, then lighting, reflectors, grip stuff, microphones, backgrounds, a studio — on and on forever. Take a good look at what’s going on in that link from Erica. It takes lots of people with lots of very expensive equipment to make those videos and you’re not seeing one fifth of it. The $3000 camera is the least of your expenses.
movie mode
vs
stills?!?!?!?
for me,
its all about story telling…
how you want to tell your story…
its
apples
and
oranges,
in terms of story telling…
I look at film (medium)
as placing the camera within a frame
and having the 3D appear,
within the 2 dimensional……
but beyond beautiful imagery,
there needs to be a story…..
multimedia
and
film (medium)
are different ways of
visually communicating…..
the still photograph,
is the root,
the foundation
of all
image making……
of
all
story telling……
****
michael webster: totally agree. almost.
i posted a link, too, somewhere above, to an online stills/video mashup at the NYTIMES.com, and having a still cam which captures video was, i believe, a help in this case.
here’s the link again:
http://alturl.com/cv5p
now, this could have used an external mike because, as has been noted, these HD cams built into still cameras are not great for sound.
cheers
Have video capacities on my DSLR and own a video cam……… used the DSLR for videos when I need to record a new technique from a manufacturer ie how to infuse aluminium and plastic. I end up with a combo…….. great images for a PDF,hard copy or slideshow, a short video that can be for the net or individual screens etc.
When I need to make a video/film/movie I use the dedicated video camera usually a HV30 as I do small screen stuff only or if I need something bigger I beg borrow but don’t buy
I agree, Michael W., yet from now on, Leica M9 and expensive video equipment will have to compete with “9/11”, “Abhu Graib”, and “Teheran protests” non-pro equipment, maybe not as finished, reflective documentaries available in usual medias, like TV or movie theaters, but definitely in news immediacy (be it from David as a twitter to a few, or from tehran cell phones to the whole world), and also sustained longevity in the collective memory, so to speak.
Well – if you think about it – the same argument is made for digital photography all the time.. A decent camera costs $1500 to start, pro lenses are $1,700 for zooms and $400 on up for primes, You’ll need a new computer to handle the raw files, you’ll need expensive software – Adobe photoshop, bridge or maybe photomechanic, lots of harddrive space – those files ain’t small. then you might need lights! oh and pocket wizards, maybe some softboxes, reflectors, shades, light modifiers, batteries to run it all, light stands, and maybe an assistant or two to adjust the power of your lights and location while you’re shooting… and in the end MAYBE you’ll want a studio too.. It goes both ways..
So as the masters seem to do it – Minimal is optimal.
let your subject matter dictate what you’re going to need before you waste your money.
if you shoot films and put them to music and leave out the wild, then you won’t need mics.
So video is only as expensive as you make it… if you need lenses and you have a handful of great 35mm lenses you like – get an adapter… besides the DOF of the 35mm lens will be so much better than that of the expensive video zoom. take the expense out and put the creativity back into it!
All:
Please take a look at: https://www.lfi-online.de/ceemes/page/show/heft_aktuell_videos
All videos made with 5D. As expected very shallow DOF, focus problems, and paning that looks like a fisheye. Very disturbing. Image quality is very good, but definitely is very hard to make videos with lots of motion going on.
Regarding the street photographers feature in the videos, interesting, but not my cup of tea.
Jorge
Ah, Chris Weeks street… only 2 days into the new year and that terrible series gets linked to. Oh, well there’s always 2011…
Jared:
Nice to know I was not the only one to find that series sort of the paparazzi photographer who in his spare time does street photography holding very expensive Leica equipment, getting just ok photos and making everyone believe he is the ultimate HCB.
I could have sworn I posted this comment, so if it appears twice, sorry, something’s weird with the site.
Regarding 5d 2 video quality, this is what impressed me most when I was researching it:
http://www.davidstephenson.com/rocky_906.mov
Unlike the Canon guy’s stuff, this seems doable. And note that, unlike a video camera, depth of field is whatever you want it to be, light willing.
Herve
I absolutely love dr’s American Suburb X, but there’s a lot of work by established people there…everyone from D’Agata to Moriyama to Mann, Sultan, Nachtwey, Davidson, Lange, Steichen, Arbus, MEM, Levitt, HCB, Eggleston, Evans, Winogrand, etc…maybe I am not understanding you, but if you mean to compare the intent of burn with that of ASX, I don’t follow what you are saying.
Just back from the recreation of the original exhibit as per the vision of John Szarkowski of Davidson’s E. 100th Street, vintage prints, hung in the original sequence with the same spacing and hang heights, and also the went in for a 2nd go around for the Frank exhibit of The Americans – both exhibits close tonite, and am so happy to have been able to be in NYC for these. Not a day I will forget. Thank goodness for all the notes and letters and contact sheets and vintage materials preserved over the years – take care of your work, you never know :)
– take care of your work, you never know :)…when I am maggot tucker….. ehh doesn’t matter
matters to the viewer, silly, not you
there will be a heap of new stuff as the whole show just keeps on ………..
recreating within it’s own momentum
Jorge,
That video series has been around a bit and while I appreciate his apparent passion, um, he comes off… well, you know… :)
Herve, I meant stringing together still images taken sequentially at 4 – 9 shots per second in a multimedia piece. Still images but if done correctly can convey a cinematic sense within the boundaries of photos in a multimedia piece. I really believe MM is the way of the future but using still photos in a mm piece is a new art from in it’s early stages.
Jason what software did you use to create your bio? Final Cut?
so i’m watching the chris weeks videos and wondered if most of you who shoot street use rangefinders, it’s coming across as though it’s almost an essential part of taking good pictures??
Erica, I also went to both of those shows over the past few days. I, too, found Frank’s contact sheets very interesting. It was interesting to see how he approached some of those famous images.
John Gladdy, I gotta say though, I thought the Davidson prints were on a whole nother level than the Frank prints. As I mentioned earlier, the quality of the Davidson prints practically knocked me over. But the Frank prints were pretty much just like all the other museum quality black and white prints I see. I think they would probably look just as good properly prepared for a hi-res screen. Is that because the Davidson prints are new and the Frank prints have faded, or lost something? Or is it the larger format camera? Or Both? What do you think, Erica? Do you agree that the Davidson prints were that much better or am I missing something?
A few snapshots from the Met: http://www.mwebphoto.com/Galleries/met/slideshow.html
The 5d 2 video conversation’s got me thinking of doing a little test video. If it turns out interesting, maybe I’ll post a link later today.
vicky…
i only shoot rangefinders ( almost 4 years now )…
i can talk about the pros forever…
but
i will tell u this ( and i mean it )
DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE..
( plz go shoot with ANY camera available… i dont believe i “stealing” photos…if you are able to CONNECT
with your subjects, the size of your camera does not matter that much anymore… i also DONT belong in the HCB
school either..i dont believe in that “Fly on the Wall” axiom either…I m more into the DAH school of photography…talk to your subjects, live with them..eat with them, smoke with them..be them…and then noone cares about your gear anymore…BE HONEST..MAKE YOUR SELF VISIBLE…ASK permission…get involved..make yourself a subject too..be the subject…get in your subjects shoes..no stealing the moment..be the moment…i agree with jared…that guys video above – of course i forget his name -is annoying, fake and plain ridiculous …yeah right..shoot only with leica..you will be a better photographer..ohh plz…bull…)
..and i tell you all this as a Leica ( rangefinder ) photographer myself..
big hug
hee, thanks panos, i like your approach :)
guess i’ll stick with my nikon f80 when i want portability, though that Leica really does look nice.
I just found this video today. It’s by photographer Dewitt Jones. I used to read his column in Outdoor Photographer and liked the way he hardly ever talked about gear. He tended to talk about creativity and the creative process/mindset of taking photos.
This video is a bit of a Nat Geo advertorial at the start; and a bit saccharine sweet. But the premise he talks about of actually getting out there and doing it, look for the positive rather than the negative no matter how unpromising things are etc; make it worth a watch.
http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/1598539/5397639
one thing i want to add though….
yes u do look a lot more ( wayyy more ) sexier with a Leica than
holding an elephant like a 5D…or a D3..but im not sure if anyone
cares about that either..
laughing..( if a 5D looks like your grandmothers sister then
a Leica like looks like a supermodel..;)
Vicky..:)
also consider the Olympus E-420..
( the SMALLEST slr available..plz google this one..i love it..)
“u do look a lot more ( wayyy more ) sexier with a Leica”
hahaha!
well i need all the help i can get now :)
*starts saving*
“yes u do look a lot more ( wayyy more ) sexier with a Leica”
Yes; but after paying for the Leica You can’t afford to buy the women that it attracts a drink!!! An excercise in diminishing returns…. Buy a Holga; it leaves you an extra $7,000 booze money! :-)
Panos
I consider e-510 as a replacement for m9.
if a Leica is the “Twiggy”
http://caraphillips.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/014twiggy.jpg
then a 5D is:
http://hulkhogan.com/
See Vicky Panos is really a plastic tabloid leicaphile junkie……. he has to look the goods to take photos otherwise all is lost ………….it that constant search for that self imploding sex appeal that maketh the real photographer
Ross..;)
im not an alcoholic…( i just [only] drink everyday )
:))))))))))
ah panos, no more digital (i’ve got a d90 and hardly touch it) i <3 film.
I'm okay for cameras really, i mean i'd like a mamiya 7 and an x-pan but i can do what i need to with what i have, i feel lucky :)
it's just when you see the b/w leica shots, and hold a friend's leica, you get a little camera lust.
Panos; Denial is a symptom not an excuse :-)
Imants..:)
totally agree..
thats why im visiting the
Parthenon/Acropolis 4 times a week when in athens..
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/parthenon-and-the-acropolis-landmark-1.jpg
Denial????
let me check webster dictionary..
never heard this word before… :^
aagh, my comment disappeared.
panos, i’m okay for cameras really, I’m a film lover mostly.
just always interested in what everyone thinks :)
Ross scrape me off the floor the guy is a natural give him Panos’s Leica and we will have real shots of paradise from the chosen …….. oh my sweet Lord, thank christ he didn’t transcend all with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and was only bought up on a diet of Hari Krishna’s vegetable soup.
Michael webster. I meant more the physical nature of a print, its ‘concreteness’, than purely its tecnical quality. Also it was in relation to the viewing of physical work vs crt/lcd. Davidson or frank viewed in the flesh or on a screen and in my mind there is no contest. Museums are also not the best place to view photography(IMO). everbody scuttles around whispering like its some kind of religious shrine or something. The object tends to become fetishised and venerated like it was some kind of sacred bone or something….as you can imagine i fall out with people in galleries and museums all the time over this. THEY ARE JUST PICTURES!
PEACE
John
Panos. Looks like im headed out the door with 3 supermodels then ..although mine have lost all their dress sense and had the shit kicked out of them a few times :)
John..u r a real man…
Imants;)
Just for you Imants…
Vicky they will tell you that the path to heaven is lined with leica’s except for Ross he has further to go so the first part of the journey is laid with cheap plastic toy cameras ………… they are not fireworks that you see they are stolen strobes as the great unwashed head to hell for a bit on the side with their canons primed and ready to fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyTsi3By5w&feature=related
john lennon disagrees..haaaaaa
Panos; You need to buy the Sultan of Brunei edition Holga and the world will become your oyster! Oh and denial is a river in Egypt; ok? :-)
thanks Ross..
i new “Denial” is a river full of pure clean egyptian water…( and im thirstyyyy )
i just couldnt prove it…
“the first part of the journey is laid with cheap plastic toy cameras”
And they hurt like hell when you have to prostrate yourself on them at the journey’s beginning… But in the distance I see a glinting D700 just waiting for me; forever out of reach an unattainable. I’m stuck in a world of plastic cameras, insulation tape and velcro; through these sufferings I become a better person.
through these sufferings I become a better person.
—————————————————-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N-s-dos-passos-17.jpg
sure…
Ross ………. http://www.etrouko.com.au/imiimages.htm
Panos; Here’s a NZ soft drink ad for you since we don’t drink alcohol or have any other vices in NZ :-)
Ross……:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
THAT WAS THE VIDEO OF THE DAY…….
priceless
Of course Leicas attract beautiful and incredibly talented women….
JOHN GLADDY…
i think there is a point when photos/pictures become photographs..perhaps not needing a candle lit under them, but nevertheless some do transcend to a higher level of viewing experience..i like the gallery and museum viewing of photographs, minus opening night..for me it is similar to liking live theater as opposed to watching a movie..i am surprised that since you do prefer film to digi that you would not see the photographic print as something in and of itself…in other words, not just a “picture”…imo a picture shows us something..a picture gives information, whereas a photograph has a life of its own…can a “photo” not become an object transcending straight representation??
cheers, david
ROSSY,
i am still laughing…
Ross ..exactly..
now imagine natalie holding a HULK HOGAN 5D….
:))))))))))))
Panos; who needs a Leica to attract women when you can simply wear a pair of stubbies? :-)
I can afford stubbies…
hmmm…i am going for shopping… NOW…;]]]
Wish me luck
the M9 has not yet come out of the bag…for me it is impossible to work when really serious with two systems…i have to go one way or the other, so my first days in Rio i have used the workhorse D700 because i really needed a good flash system working almost in pitch dark some of the time…last nite even at 3200 i would have been shooting at a 15th of a sec wide open and things moving fast, so i did need a flash…thank goodness for the pop up flash on the D700…after losing my only SB800 to a thief, i have been relying on the pop up which is not really good for fast shooting, but i had no choice…i did also play a bit with the G11 which works well when just messing around, but for serious shooting on raw file just does not make it imo..slow…biggest problem of course is who can see that viewing screen if it happens to be bright sunlight? i do have my trusty Vivitar 2500 (25 bucks) which i can use on the Leica, and i may give that a try this evening…
ok, forget all the tech stuff…Rio is nothing short of amazing…the best thing is the people…what a nice warm culture…despite the worries about theft and crime, which do exist, 99% of the population of this often over bustling city are simply the nicest bunch of people you would ever want to meet…i have worked several times in Brazil before, but with not so much prior experience in Rio..one must always take care here, but if you can get to the heart, there is real heart….
Thanks John. Didn’t mean to be argumentative. Just curious. I don’t mind being wrong, kinda like it actually. I still can’t get those Davidson prints out of my head. Did you see them when you were here? Why are they so good compared to other prints I see? Is it because they are still fresh from the bath? Will all that rich detail soon disappear?
On a related note, I just discovered that the subject of a new project I’ve begun has a 60″ plasma tv. I’ll soon get to see what photos look like on that monster. You know, talking about the cost of things, he paid $2500 for that television and was watching Bugs Bunny when I was visiting. If photos look as good on those things as I think they will, it seems there must be some kind of opportunity to sell quality photos to people with those kinds of displays. Up-thread, someone was talking about the future of photography when so much news is broken, and so many memorable photos taken, by people with cell phone cameras. And in a similar vein, I was talking to the Leica guy at the camera store the other day and he essentially said that people were crazy, or more often just status conscious, to buy top-of-the-line cameras these days, that they only gave you ten or fifteen percent better quality than the point and shoots that everybody has. I think the answer to all that, if there is one, is that that 10 or fifteen percent is what people will pay for. If they like looking at their own crappy photos on their big screen tv, why wouldn’t they pay to view great photos? It’s not like inexpenive video cameras are threatening Hollywood.
Going to these shows this past week and viewing photographs in the context of discussions we have here made me think that the commercial world of hi-end photography is pretty much designed so that as few people as possible get to see and enjoy it. It’s practically limited to those who go to museums and galleries and, as John says, those are not the best places to enjoy photographs (the Met is particularly horrible). And most cannot, or aren’t likely to, take anything home from those places. I think I mentioned the Davidson book costs $350. Yes, there’s still great photography in a few magazines, but those small pages cannot do great photos justice. And I note that a lot of David’s work in National Geographic is defaced with pull-quotes.
Maybe photography is such an art that it can only be appreciated by either the wealthy or the seriously dedicated, but I’m not yet convinced. We talk a lot about how photography has to evolve and see no farther than multimedia, which is nothing new on one hand and not really photography on the other. I think the evolution will more likely end up being the way still photos are viewed. 40″ x 60″ prints look great but they are expensive and difficult to make. And is anyone really making all that much selling them? But soon everyone will be able to enjoy a 40″ x 60″ image on their television. People already spend far more time looking at photos on their computer monitors than they do looking at prints. If everybody’s a photographer and everybody’s got a big screen tv, why wouldn’t everybody pay for something beautiful to put on them? And note the popularity of digital frames. I’ll bet someday soon publishers and galleries will be selling those things instead of books or prints.
Anyway, sorry to go on. I’ve got an actual writing project I’m supposed to be working on instead of doing this, you understand.
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
interesting discussion…however i do think the value of limited edition prints and either hand made or limited edition books will rise the more the masses view work on their flat screens…surely, a niche market, but i have never been interested personally in anything other than the niche market…ironic that i shoot for mass media? don’t think so..i see value in the mass media too, but that has never been my long range goal for my work…i have no copies at home of my work published in magazines…i only hang on to books and prints…the role of magazines for me, and all of my colleagues at Magnum, has been to view magazines as simply a resource…a way to get the work..treated with respect of course…and realizing the value of reaching millions of viewers as well…still, the final final viewing of photographs for what they “can be” is definitely not a magazine page for me anyway…even the editors of magazines who hire me know i feel this way…they know well i am going to bust it for them and give them more than just a publishable story…i have a very strong work ethic….but they also know that i am motivated beyond their immediate use of the work..actually, they like this…they know that strong motivation , whatever it is, will yield better work…better for them as well…ok, running…gotta go do what i say i am doing…
cheers, david
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15QXQ_TB1Cc
Ray Charles – Whatd I Say !!!
ENjoy
Interesting points. I confess I’m thinking of this more as a consumer than as a photographer. I’d really like to be able to view as many large, professionally produced, great photographs as possible in the privacy of my own home without having to start my own hedge fund to be able to afford it. Am I an untapped market or just an individual living in a minuscule and unprofitable niche? Probably the latter, neh? As a photographer, were I to achieve Magnum level skills, I doubt I’d particularly care about reaching the masses either, though I don’t see how that would be a bad thing. Whatever… we’ll see.
Regarding David’s Leica vs Canon vs Nikon tests, did I miss the results of that? I’m guessing that the fact he’s using the Nikon on the job pretty much tells us the results.
MICHAEL..
you did miss what i said…go back just a few comments….i have not even taken one single picture with the M9 …no results…was impressed with D700 in that it took a full salt water wave on my first day and is still working..
Michael Webster…
Interesting discussion. I think the model of viewing images on a large flat panels in coming. What happens when the price drops to the point where you can hang a 50″ on your wall uploaded with top quality photos. Like a limited edition digital frame done large. The boundaries between all media is becoming blurred. You can watch blu-rays, play video games (which represents the largest entertainment market), and access the net on a PS3. Western Digital offers a media player that streams in HD from your computer. The problem with e-media is the lack of copyright and unlimited reproduction. Here is where you can appeal to the masses via viral-media and appeal to wealthy collectors with limited edition prints and books. Most blockbuster movies these days are just elaborate commercials to sell all the after-market junk. People will always want to hold something in there hands that doesn’t disappear when the power goes out.
I saw that, was talking about when you were in New York. Thought you said you and a few friends tested the three. Maybe I dreamed it. No matter.
Thanks for sharing all these details, btw. I really appreciate what you’re doing for us.
I afraid even m9, d700 or 5d will not help to my photography right now. Time with no idea what and why shot anything. Not satisfy from most pictures I did last time. lack of continuity. No reason to take camera off my bag. Any camera. Gear is always excuse only.
counts only the final result
nothing more nothing less
The result
peace
David,
Would you ever take a Holga or a Lomo on assignment? No worries if they get lost, stolen or swept out to sea. Kinda of like an anti-Leica. Not that I have anything against Leica. I learned to shoot an a used R2. I pulled it out the other day and loaded it up. Had a lot of fun taking street shots, but it ate my film on the way out.
Michael w –
there were 2 davidson shows up at the same time, which gallery are you referring to? I did get to see both…Howard Greenberg or the 5 decades show at Bryce Wolkowitz?
Greenberg, the East 100th street photos.
Michael Webster, All:
I spent a lot of last year making video on a Canon G9. What started out as just playing around developed into something more serious, simply because I quickly saw the advantage of using such a small camera to film video with.
Obviously there are drawbacks to using what is basically a good quality p&s camera for making video but once you become aware of the limitations and learn to accept / work around them I would advocate that the camera is workable.
I must have 80 – 100 hours of video made on the G9 for the “My Friend Eric” film project.
I trailer for the film can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBBxJtvKeQ
This was edited on iMovie. I’m considering using Final Cut Express or Pro to work on the final film.
It seems that the shallow depth of field is not something you have to worry about when using these p&s cameras for video.
I’ve projected this on a large screen and it looked fine, and it was recently looped to show on a flat screen tv during an exhibition and many people commented how good the quality was. Obviously it is not HD or 16mm film, but for a small pocket camera I’ve always felt it’s good.
I’m writing this from Singapore. I’m here having a New Year’s reunion with my brother who lives in Australia. Not really any time to photograph here unfortunately, but from the two rolls I’ve gone through it seems like it could be a good place to work on the streets.
Happy New Year to everyone.
Cheers,
Justin
Right, the prints were amazing. They were the original (vintage) prints from the exhibit “Curated by John Szarkowski in 1970, a re-creation of The Museum of Modern Art’s groundbreaking 1970 exhibition of forty-two photographs by the highly regarded Bruce Davidson. The photographs in the exhibition are the actual prints, presented in the exact manner in which they were shown at MoMA in 1970.”
The prints in the main gallery were the old ones, and you noticed they were smaller – I assume they were 8×10, meaning that they were contact prints, as he used a large format 8×10 camera to shoot the body of work. And contacts (or minimally enlarged) of LF are stunning anyway, but on this vintage stock, and masterfully printed…
While I was there Howard G pulled a print off the wall and showed how the prints were framed, the wire just taped on the back, everything original.
The ‘selections from E 100’ in the back room, I think it was called the South Gallery, larger and different looking, were the new prints. lovely, but to my eye, less amazing than the contacted vintage work.
If I recall correctly, the Frank work ws printed at different periods in time, though much was vintage. Still, you are looking at an enlargement of a 35mm neg to an 8×10 in case of his work prints or larger for the images in the exhibit.
#500
DAVID HARVEY
I think you misunderstood my point. I DO see prints as something beautiful, in and of themselves. Thats one of the reasons I make them. My point was towards the reverence that gets attached to prints once they are in a museum setting. Its almost like they become ‘Icons’ purely because of the setting they are shown in. This I disagree with. They are still just prints. Wonderful, glorious, tactile and concrete….but certainly not mystical, at least not purely due to location.
and of course, yes, some ‘pictures’ do transcend into something else…now if only there were a recipe for achieving that :)P
Michael Webster. For solidity, depth and prescence a Large Format neg is nearly always going to trump prints from the miniture formats. Knowing the format of a print enables you to appreciate the skill inherent in its making so that a fantastic print from 35mm is no less fantastic than a print from 10×8,but there is little point comparing them directly for detail, depth etc…
appreciate them for what they are and how they have been made to hold the photographers vision so wonderfully.
JOHN
non-sequitor….
Family has been watching movies out of our library over the holidays…last night was Armageddon with Bruce Willis and Billy Bob Thorton…..hadn’t seen it in a while, and enjoying the lovely framing and cinemetography from Michael Bay and his cinematographer John Schwartzman when, at the end, I thought I recognized the image from a short panning scene…hit pause….went to the bookshelf… sure enough…almost an exact duplication of Robert Frank’s “Parade – Hoboken, New Jersey” image from The Americans….
Probably old news for most of you but I’d never picked up on it before….
good light, all.
a.
Well, it ain’t sun-baked babes in Ipanema, but I had fun yesterday photographing my son Robin shaving.
http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/shaving_robins_beard
but if you mean to compare the intent of burn with that of ASX, I don’t follow what you are saying.
——————–
Nope, I just gave the link, only relating to pictures made years and decades ago. I got into the site thru FACEBOOK and in general took more of an interest in the “found” snapshot photography of the american west,as well as less famous bona-fide (career?) photographers, as they highlighty the work on their FB wall.
The other guys (“famous”) are easy to find elsewhere…… There is something so predictable about the hierarchy of who’s who in photography, it’s getting boring (even Mozart and Schubert had to wait almost a century to be given their due, Bach even more).
these old snapshots of yonder year (as well as all the Xmas snaps sent by famly and friends) are refreshing, and always a wonderful (re)discovery.
yes u do look a lot more ( wayyy more ) sexier with a Leica than
holding an elephant like a 5D…or a D3..
———————–
It’s the Bandana, Panos, not the LEICA. That red cranal burkha of yours is a true guy magnet (Maybe chicas too, but all pictures of you show guys lascively eyeing your side).
You are a whole Pampelone run of the bulls by yourself, ole, torero!!! :-))))
PS: what was that Clapton/Derek & the Dominos song? LEEEICA-AA, you got me down on my knees”…
Justin, thanks for the “my friend Eric” trailer link. Wonderful, I suppose between spending 30 000$ or writing grant proposals for 2 years, and making the movie, the answer is easy. And no loss on the human side of things, using the G9 and imovie:
HULK HOGAN 5D…
———————–
5D Hulk Hogan? Not even close, Panos. Check this guy, I bet he needs 15 years on-ite meeting the locals, become alcoholic sharing drinks, before he gets a DAH shot, also a HCB one, and even, I dare say, a HHB shot (that’s moi!)
:-)))) (sorry about the long link):
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/322352728_dad9d3d722.jpg&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/shaolintiger/322352728/&usg=__BeVHpFW7XqZLx0q7CA7RrfBQ64w=&h=500&w=333&sz=92&hl=en&start=39&um=1&tbnid=JTeewabBSq9WiM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dheavily%2Bequipped%2Bphotographer%2Bpictures%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enUS267US285%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D1
on-ite= on-site
Wow, that was a long link! Ok, I’m outa here….
Vicky, you dont need a rangefinder to do street. This is a tale told by Leicaphiles to justify how much they spent on the camera.
Just as a matter of curiosity about Tell it, Mr Harvey, have you had any contact with the family in the book since the book came out?
JUSTIN
Good job with your video on your friend Eric. Did you record the audio directly off the camera as well? If so, it really served you well both visually and with sound. Quite intimate treatment and that works for this story. I’m really getting intrigued with this video/stll/sound stuff. An art college in Detroit is offering a series of classes on this subject and I’m seriously considering taking it.
Patricia
A question…
Now that I am on twitter following DAH…
Any other recommendations of photographers who are tweeting?
Thanks.
Cathy,
lassal has a list of burnians
http://twitter.com/#/list/absolutlassal/burnians
and on lightstalkers, you can also find many
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lightstalkers-who-use-twitter
another good source is always to check the follow list of one.
DAH’s list is quite short, looking into Anton’s list may give you some hints.
Last .. MrTweet,
a reporting system, which analyses your network on twitter and hints you to others…
http://mrtweet.com/home
somehow wordpress ate my last comment .. strange..
Cathy,
“Any other recommendations of photographers who are tweeting?”
—————-
lassal has a list of burnians
http://twitter.com/#/list/absolutlassal/burnians
and on lightstalkers, you can also find many
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lightstalkers-who-use-twitter
another good source is always to check the follow list of one.
DAH’s list is quite short, looking into Anton’s list may give you some hints.
Last .. MrTweet,
a reporting system, which analyses your network on twitter and hints you to others…
http://mrtweet.com/home
Cathy,
lassal has a list of burnians
her name is absolutlassal
and on lightstalkers, you can also find many
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lightstalkers-who-use-twitter
another good source is always to check the follow list of one.
DAH’s list is quite short, looking into Anton’s list may give you some hints.
Last .. MrTweet,
a reporting system, which analyses your network on twitter and hints you to others…
http://mrtweet.com/home
(sorry for so many posts, but the original post, which contained all of this was not shown …)
Last, Twitter has some tools which help you in finding others,
one is MrTweet,
a reporting system, which analyses your network on twitter and hints you to others…
http://mrtweet.net
heck out Mr Tweets cousins coming soon http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/06/22/first-look-tweedledee-and-tweedledum-in-alice-in-wonderland/
HERVE:
Thanks. Working on the film was a very organic process with very little beforehand planning. I was not even aware really at the time that filmmakers spend ages trying to raise funds before starting projects. Discovered this after talking to a few people about the process.
I got the G9 to use on a workshop I took with DAH in Oslo, March 2008. I used it for that week and that’s it. I didn’t even think about it having video at the time. But then I discovered that function and thought I would just carry it around on the farms while photographing and play around with it. It just grew from that. One useful thing was that I discovered I could easily work with the two formats: keep the G9 around my next and just start filming inbetween making still photographs with my M6. The first scene of the trailer is part of a longer sequence from when I was filming and then took some still images and didn’t bother to stop the G9 filming video. It was only later that I was looking at it with a friend that he suggested it was an interesting piece of film. I managed to find the slides from that same sequence and combined the two. The longer sequence (about 5mins) works better, but it had to be cut to show the trailer in the gallery.
This past November I worked on a film project with John Cohen who came to visit me in the UK. He told me all about the planning that usually goes into making film. I rented a Sony PD170 this time which uses digital tape. In some ways it was better than the G9 but you work in a different way and for working on your own in intimate situations it would be much harder. I think with film especially different projects / situations would suit different camera types.
Who has time to sit around trying to write grant proposals when you could be out making the work! Eric is 100 now – there was not time to try and get money on this project. We’ll see how the final film turns out, but I’ll keep people posted on Burn.
PATRICIA:
All the film which is in the trailer has sound directly from the camera. I discovered that filming outside with any wind around the G9 built in mic was useless and just recorded wind noise even with the wind filter turn on! So I sometimes would use a Roland Edirol to record sound at the same time as filming. My voice over was done on the Edirol.
If they made these small cameras with a audio input like the D5 mkII then they would be very useable. I’m sure the time will come when they feature D5 video quality in a G9 size camera – quite soon hopefully.
Really, the equipment I used was very simple and inexpensive compared with what you could use and spend. It was a case really of just working with what I had. I’m sure if I had more experience editing I could make something even better from the film hours I have. The editing software is the hurdle I think.
Sounds like that class might be a good way to try out all of this…
Justin
While we are talking about using 5Ds and G9s to take video the filmmakers are all going nuts about the Red Camera when this gets smaller watch out. You can rent one for about $500/day.
Thanks Thomas!
Justin, very nice film!
If you can get quality like this with the G9 how bad could the 5DII be? It can’t be as hard to focus as I am hearing. Guess I’ll find out for myself soon since I’ve got a new 5DII packed and leaving for India Wednesday. I’m not planning to shoot a lot of video but you never know…
Hope you’re enjoying some of the delicious street food in Singapore. Satay, Chile crab..
I’ve passed thru there many times on my way to India.
Interesting spot.
Sigapore boring as bat shit ……….passing through sure beat living there
CATHY…
since 5D is a full frame camera and uses normal lenses, it just stands to reason it would be hard to follow focus..as i said, just fine for something not moving towards or away from the camera and ok if on tripod…what is good about the 5D is the out of focus background that you cannot get with a normal HD smaller chip camera, but like everything else, the advantages can be disadvantages…since you are simply shooting for yourself and not on a pro shoot, i am sure you will have no problems..again, enjoy India..
FRANK…
yes the RED will be the camera to use IF you want to pull stills from video…a 50mg file off the video…i still do not think that just because the quality from the RED will match most still cameras, that pulling a still off of video will in any way be the same as having taken a still picture in the first place…making stills is a whole different body language and thinking process than shooting video which generally must be smoother…..the set up for the still shot is completely different with lots of little micro-composing going on that you just would not do if shooting video…however, i can still imagine the whole industry changing because of it…if i do my Dream Hotel film , i will not even imagine trying to pull stills from it…for me, i will either shoot a movie or do stills, but i have no interest in the combo…well, i always could change my mind couldn’t i??
JOHN GLADDY…
yes i do see your point of course…location should not change the intrinsic value simply because of the space…
JUSTIN…
i have not seen your film everyone is talking about…i will have to look in the morning…i can barely type…exhausted…in the best way of being exhausted…working well and like crazy….i have weeks to go before i am finished, but one of the best beginnings i have ever had on any story…already thinking book…not a years of work book, but just a relatively quick shoot book….anyway, i do look forward to your film…where do you stand with your book? we are way overdue for a skype chat…gotta be after january 10th at this point….thanks as always for your patience…
cheers, david
Whatever else there is to say about David Alan Harvey, the cat is living the life…!!!
And while I pray he lives to a ripe old age and has many further adventures, I suspect he could die tomorrow and still be a happy man… how many of the rest of us are lucky enough to say the same?
I think it’s pretty clear, David, that your tweets from Rio are a resounding success in both an educational sense and just for the way you’re sharing the adrenalin. Rock on!!!
ROSS…
Dewitt Jones is quite the talker about being a Natgeo photographer and he is a great motivational speaker….BUT, i ask you to find even ONE single story he ever shot for the magazine within the last 35 years…trust me, there are none…..i honestly think he only did one story a long long time ago..like in the early 70’s or something…..still this does not take away from what he says which does make sense to most people most of the time…but i must say for those who have actually shot for the magazine in recent history , it brings a wry smile, and always amazes us that his audience never questions this at all…
cheers, david
David,
I caught your quick and diplomatic edit of that last sentence about Dewitt Jones… but all your secrets are safe with me.
SIDNEY…
thanks for shhhhhhh..please keep all secrets secret….smiling…please let me add that i do like Dewitt as a person, can see his entertainment abilities, and he has probably made more money talking about shooting for NG than if he had actually done it!!….and if he entertains his audiences , then good for him and most likely good for them too…..but, you can imagine the “behind the scenes” chatter among those who have actually been doing it every time we hear about Dewitt telling a large audience that he shoots for the magazine…actually, i seriously wonder why nobody ever asks him when and if he actually had a story in the magazine…even if i were not so close to it, surely i would imagine his audience asking for examples of stories published..hmmmmmmm
meanwhile, you are right…if a lightning bolt hits me between the eyes tomorrow,i will only be thankful for whatever happened right up until that moment…just want a bit more..please, please….
cheers david
David;
I actually didn’t know he had even shot for NG! I only ever knew him from Outdoor Photographer magazine. I liked his columns because they were more about the thought process of making photos rather than typical gearhead talk. Mind you; the gushing praise he gives NG at the video’s beginnings may mean he’s looking for some work from them :-)
The aspect I liked about the video was his point that even though a location may not seem photogenic, you can often find something worth shooting. And, that the sheer fact that “nothing” is happening forces you to look outside the square which often pushes you in an unforeseen direction.
As an aside; I’ve been shooting at the beach every day over the last week and am finding the wide open spaces difficult to shoot after spending so much time shooting indoors this year!
Indoors you have walls, furniture etc that provide structure to work with. Even shooting in town at night is similar as the black night (sort of) provides the same “walls” etc. It’s been interesting!
Cheers.
“even though a location may not seem photogenic, you can often find something worth shooting” Yea me and Raeles find that in those boring men’s rest rooms
“even though a location may not seem photogenic, you can often find something worth shooting” Yea me and Raeles find that in those boring men’s rest rooms
——————————————————————————————————-
yup…Imants is right..:)
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif22?authkey=Gv1sRgCMbF-de1k_XSgwE#5422780965383436818
Oh god; is it just the 3 of us on the night shift again??? :-)
ahh, the glamor.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SI9EGC6r4SI/AAAAAAAAAME/Te0VnWxzLYI/s1600-h/09820014.jpg
“The THOUGHT of a commission is brilliant. However, feeling in ur gut when u have NOTHING so far is humbling. Now there is an ASSUMPTION only”
dah
that is a truism.. and perhaps the reason many have fear of flying with their photography..
the bigger the budget on getting us to a shoot, the greater the challenge in-mind – once in the zone and producing though there is no fresher feeling..
glad it´s working out despite setbacks.. an ability to adapt seems far more important than the choice of lightbox.
ross
“am finding the wide open spaces difficult to shoot after spending so much time shooting indoors this year! ”
i can empathize to a degree, especially with the idea of being flash dependent to get the results needed, although i think the same rules apply to working outside and inside – while being mindful of the background if i focus on the foreground inside or out things tend to work out well.
summer has always been my favorite time of year to shoot simply because the music and culture moves outside, seasonal gigs abroad kick off and the opportunity to work in daylight presents.
in the winter, in europe & u.s. at least, it is mostly indoors.. and since the smoking ban in many places, venues smell ripe with stale beer and farts, and too much time is spent waiting for the camera to warm up and loose condensation.
justin.
loved the film.. great stuff.. although i agree with those who think a dedicated camera for still and film is the ideal for a project like yours.
the benefit of the g9 is the fact it is tiny and shooting a little video need not interfere with the photography or amount of kit being carried.. last year on commission i kept one filming around my neck while shooting in some tight spots at parties with good results.. i think your filming could benefit so much from a broadcast quality tool, as you are obviously able to transfer your still photography eye to video quite effortlessly.
john / dah..
the real value in prints seems to be when the print is made by the photographer close to the time of shooting.. a good reason for us all to edit and print as we go.
gallery spaces annoy me at times, mainly when the work on show is shot purely for the gallery audience.. which i find a little pretentious since galleries essentially began as shops.
while a gallery may be a way people outside of the industry connect with work it in no way improves the work itself.. only presents it in a clinical way, and work which is shot for a clinical showing can come across as banal to me.. thinking of the work on the walls at the london magnum meet now, which one member snapper walked into, stated “this is all shit” and promptly walked out again.
exhibits which have stayed in mind have never been intended for gallery show, and command the space rather than pander to it.. fondly remembering avedon in london now, with proof prints curling at the edges and taped to the walls like badass kids breaking the school uniform rules..
prints are amazing objects / pieces of paper / enigmas .. museums and galleries are sterile and occasionally bloated with self importance.
d
Panos,
Excellent picture! You are Robert Capa our time!
Justin
Great film indeed.
Dewitt Jones …
funny priest type of malakas…
reminds me of:
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard (March 13, 1911 – January 24, 1986) was an American science fiction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard
SIDNEY,
you are one of a kind secret keeper…well tested and I definitely would recommend you to all
BURNIANS…out there :)))
Da As Harvey…Do As Harvey…and little more…:)))
ROSS,
I got the stubbies…hmmmm…nothing happened …yet:)))
PANOS,
you need to drink water…lots of water…IMO…too yellowish …:)))
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
sorry I haven’t been around lately…BUT I discovered Facebook and twister…hmmmm…very busy :)))
2010…slow start for me…I need some inspiration…I can feel though that something is BURNing
BURN …BURN…
“…Some months later Capa became the lover of actress Ingrid Bergman, who was traveling in Europe at the time entertaining American soldiers. In December 1945, Capa followed her to Hollywood, where he worked for American International Pictures for a short time. Bergman tried to persuade him to marry her, but Capa didn’t want to live in Hollywood. The relationship ended in the summer of 1946 when Capa traveled to Turkey….”
———————————————————————————————————–
ah Marcin…i personally dont think i would turn Ingrid Bergman down…:(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Capa
one last thing about Robert Capa…
“…On May 25, 1954 at 2:55 p.m., the regiment was passing through a dangerous area under fire when Capa decided to leave his jeep and go up the road to photograph the advance. About five minutes later, Mecklin and Lucas heard an explosion; Capa had stepped on a landmine. When they arrived on the scene he was still alive, but his left leg had been blown to pieces and he had a serious wound in his chest. Mecklin called for a medic and Capa was taken to a small field hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival.
He died with his camera in his hand…”
Come to Australia and you can die with a yeeros in your hand……. http://forums.greekcity.com.au/index.php?/topic/10081-where-to-get-the-best-yeeros/
buy one here:
http://www.fotosearch.com/CSP034/k0343129/
Imants; How do you find this stuff! :-)
David B; Lately I’ve been shooting without flash more often at night. High iso and just let shutter speeds fall where they like. I’m sitting in on one band’s rehearsals over the next few Wednesday nights so will hopefully get some more candid stuff too.
Civi; have patience, they will come…
not here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIkod60zViM
Civi, you don’t get looked on “Farm Town.” We’ll never see you again! ;)
Great way to start my day, staring down the barrel of Panos’ yellow pee. Remember one glass of water for every drink.
Just to go off on a tangent check out http://www.menuez.com/data/web/1-Menuez.mov
Cheers and best for 2010
Ian
i just want to stop in here for a minute and say hello …i am too far behind in the conversation to know what is going on….my only time for Burn is in reviewing upcoming material, but very little time to check in here for comments…surviving on 2-3 hrs. of sleep over the last 4 days, but will try for more tonight…
surely surely i am in my element…if i do not get photos/pictures/photographs out of this, then i should try another profession…the contrast of hot hot danger danger passion passion is right out there..again i must EMPHASIZE that this is one of the all time terrific cultures…
best people on the planet, even though some of them are armed to the hilt…seems contradictory, but is not…points up again how circumstantial all of our lives really are…
the “bad guys” here see themselves as Robin Hood or something…take care of their own…them against the invasive police…their territory…of course the police see it another way…this is definitely a war zone…with two points of view…with two solid points of view…last night in the favela i saw a young boy of about 14 with i think a Tech 9 (i do not know all types of guns) …he was on patrol in the hood..always expecting to be invaded by the police….he was laughing and chatting with a woman and her daughter….
i could not take this picture…at least not yet…it would have put the contact i went in with in personal danger or reprisal…however, working on it…building trust…so far, everyone tells me i will never be able to take this picture….we will see…you have to remember that most of the citizens of Rio would not even consider being up in a favela with a camera at 2am…most have NEVER been up in the favela at all….of course the favela is full of truly friendly folks..families, school kids, ballet dancers, wanna be graphic designers…everybody…life as per normal with just a couple of wrinkles….
you must also know (from their point of view) that anyone taking a picture of this kid, if it got in the wrong hands, could be death for him and maybe his family…yes, i want this picture, but yes i must wait…this is no time for misplaced bravado…
stay tuned….
cheers, david
Remember one glass of water for every drink.
———————————————–
this technique eliminates storage..cuts stomach capacity by half….
sorry for ruining your day..:)
David…
When you feel comfortable to approach this kid for a photograph, what will you say to him?
Will you try to convince him of the importance of recording his likeness for sociological/historical prepossess by saying something like “it’s not *you* I’m interested in but the *role* you are playing in your community”? the exact opposite maybe, as in “I’m interested in *you* and your personal story”?
Something completely different??
I’m very curious in how you present your intentions to your subjects. You always speak of being up-front, open, direct…
Thanks,
Thodoris
THODORIS…
yes, i always present myself as someone who will allow them to have a voice if they so choose…i showed last night my Living Proof book…so they could see i have often integrated myself into various cultural situations and they particularly identified with the work in this book…….they looked very carefully at each picture..i also had a copy of my previous published Natgeo story on Bahia..between the book and the magazine story, they pretty much get an idea of who i am…persona a persona people can pretty much size you up..as i do them…then they make the decision to let me hang out or photograph them having coffee or with a machine gun or whatever…mostly it is eye contact and body language….show respect and no fear…yesterday i photographed simple things like kite flying and night time dancing etc…some people at home…actually kites in the air over the favela signal peace…no cops…no kites in the air is a danger sign for many…
by mid week , i will return with pictures for them..this always helps …makes them feel good…makes me feel good…
cheers, david
Thanks David… most helpful… :))
Thanks for that info David. I approach it the same way, though not quite so successfully. Respect and no fear. No fear is especially important. Hate to compare people to dogs, but in this case it’s apt. Dangerous people are more likely to hassle you when they sense fear. I suspect what you said a few posts back about being able to die happy gives you quite a bit of power. If you care too much about your life in those situations, you are more likely to lose it.
John G., Erica, David, thanks for the printmaking 101 comments. It’s been many, many years since I used chemicals to make prints and my memory is not very good. I hope you didn’t think I was in any way arguing for or against anything. I have great respect for film and the chemical darkroom, I am simply not very good at it. For me to have a chance at being a very good photographer, the digital advances were necessary. Still, my bad memory tells me people I knew, and even myself on occasion, used to produce great looking black and white prints from 35mm negative film, more like the Davidson than the Frank. Probably my memory, but either way I was a little disappointed with the Frank show. Perhaps it has something to do with him being a pioneer and his then-radical technique having become commonplace? I’d like to get the book and have more time to look it over though. I’d like to study how he built a narrative with the choice and sequencing of the photos, but the Met was such a zoo on Saturday that it was impossible to stand back and contemplate.
Regarding the ongoing 5d mk2 video discussion, I may be wrong, but I get the impression a lot of people misunderstand a few basic points. First, the ability to shoot shallow depth of field is a feature not a bug. Or better said, the ability to control depth of field is the chief selling point of the technology. You can have as much depth of field as the light allows. And you can use your L lenses. Video cameras in the same price range do not give much control over dof and the ability to change lenses is very limited, if available at all. That control, coupled with the relatively large sensor give one the ability to produce much higher quality video than with a typical video cam. The problems with the 5d mk2, at least for the price range, mostly concern ease of use. Also, and this is very important, be sure you have downloaded the latest firmware for the camera from Canon. Yesterday was too cold and windy to go out and produce the little demo video I have in mind. Maybe I’ll come up with something later in the week, but more likely next weekend.
ALL:
Thanks for the kind words about the film. We’ll see how the final work turns out when I get a chance to start working on the edit. Still some hours of film I have not looked at in any detail. I’ll give Burn the first preview.
DAVID BOWEN:
I know what you’re saying and I agree. But there is no way I can recreate any of the film I’ve got now so I’ve decided to just work with what I have. That’s been the drawback of just messing around with a camera turing into something dedicated and serious organically.
However I’ve looked at HD camcorders and they certainly require a different way of working and I expect would be a lot harder to work with a still camera and one of those at the same time. As you said, the G9 is small enough to just hang around your neck and keep filming while you make stills. Just the design alone and how it hangs on the strap allows that. An HD camcorder has no neck strap and would not even hang like that if it did. It’s just a simple thing but would have made all the difference how much of my film was recorded.
DAH:
Yes, let’s try and catch up on skype later in the month. I’ll send you a reminder at some point.
Here is the link to the film trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBBxJtvKeQ
Stay safe over there and good luck.
Cheers,
Justin
“I’ve been shooting at the beach every day over the last week and am finding the wide open spaces difficult to shoot after spending so much time shooting indoors this year!”
I wish that I could go to the beach. Well, I guess I could go; the Polar Bear Club goes to the beach every weekend, but I fear that I am not that hardy. The past couple of days it’s been 18 degrees here (-7.77 C) with a wind chill of -2 (-18.8 C). In any case, there is just something about a cold, snowy, and windswept beach that makes you not want to be anywhere near it. I wonder, though, about why the Polar Bear people find going to the beach under such conditions so attractive.
DAVID
What a privilege to be behind the scenes with you on this assignment. It’s my first experience of this kind and I am mesmerized. Helps me begin to see what goes on to get the pics and essays in magazines and books that I all too often take for granted. Do hope you’ll let yourself catch up on sleep, though. Bodies are funny things – they will let us push them just so far before they opt out.
hugs
Patricia
Justin
I love what I see on your trailer. Also, I’m sure that Utube does not do it justice. Thanks for showing us what is possible. As always, the limitations are mostly between our ears rather than with our gear.
I’m very impressed and inspired by this project (not just the film). Can’t wait to see more.
justin – isn´t that just the way :ø)
the number of times that `playing about` has turned into the final piece.. especially with photoshop..
i still think it´s a real success..
cheers
I suspect he could die tomorrow and still be a happy man… how many of the rest of us are lucky enough to say the same?
————————–
Funny, Sidney, I just wrote that (first sentence) in an e-mail to a good friend, yesterday!
I think it’s pretty clear, David, that your tweets from Rio are a resounding success
————————————————————-
I like that too, but I think they are posts, not just tweets, Sidney, if on FACE. I think it’s great david does both. In the end, it will be clearer which medium brought more insight in his daily thoughts and happenstances.
5d mkII experiment/hack from last summer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7APjHGTwXc
Commissionned by the westway development trust. Dont laugh but the soundtrack is a piece called ‘John Gladdy falls in love’ by my friend, and fellow photographer, Jannis Goutman.
It was shot and edited in less than a day so its a bit….loose.
John
MR.HARVEY,
you don’t always have to have the picture…hmmm…
what’s wrong with changing profession…after all…:)))
it’s never too late …:)))
JIM,
I checked out Farmville…but when I started my tedious posts…they threw me out …:)))
so, here I am …I am following a red mustang …MAMA HARVEY is driving fast…
ROSS,
if the stabbies won’t work…I will go for the M9…:)))
WHAT NOT TO FILM !!! I love you all !!!
P.S “what a privilege to be …behind the scenes …” as our Patricia wrote…
we always like to go…deeper…and deeper…VIVA !!!
WELLINGTON, New Zealand – A tsunami unleashed by a major earthquake plowed into the Solomon Islands on Monday with the crashing waters devastating at least one village.
please, all BURNIANS in the area …proceed for check in …in the BURN area …!!!
DAH,
I really am enjoying being on assignment with you in Rio. At first I did not know what to think about the addition of the tweets but I now think its great and a big success.
Ciao, Valery
Branching off…. Next post from Bangkok, that’s Rio enough for me! ;-)
Nice video, John. As with still photos on the 5d mk 2, the biggest practical limit is the available light. Clunky controls aside.
Regarding Justin’s G9, or any other video camera — when it comes to the final product, the most important feature is resolution. Standard NTSC (regular television in the States) resolution is 720×486. HD or blu-ray is 1920×1080. They need to be shot at 30, perhaps 28, fps. The G9’s maximum resolution at 30 fps is 640 x 480. And that’s not bad for a point and shoot.
So when one considers using the video feature on still cameras, or less expensive dedicated video cameras, one needs to realize that if you don’t have at least SD capability, you will only be able to show your video on a computer monitor, or with a lot of black space on a tv, and that then it will look like crap if resized above its saved resolution. Lack of manual control is another topic.
Hope I’m not being tedious about the video specs, but I get the sense that a lot of people are unclear on the ramifications surrounding still camera video capabilities.
OK, what’s the big announcement coming up? It’s ok, it’s just between us.
Civi; I only just heard about the tsunami; thankfully no injuries. Samoa is still trying to get back on its feet after their tsunami…
Akaky; About 23 degrees C, here and school holidays. Summer besach camping holidays are having a resurgence; used to be all the rage but popularity died through the 90’s. People often stay in family owned seaside cabins (called bachs or cribs here) or in family tents. Of course they are full to the brim during the Xmas summer holidays
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach_(New_Zealand)
Akaky; this is where I have been going to shoot.I think that there would be a good story to shoot following “bach life”; but too busy with the kids at the moment!
http://www.urenuibeachcamp.co.nz/
BRAVO SEAN !!!
BRAVO BURNIANS !!!
Where are you KATIEEEEEEEE, MyGRACIEEEEEEE,TOMH,HAIK, LASSAL,REIMAR, RAFAL, BOBB, MIKER,
…………….EMCD
…………………MATTHEW
……………………….GUTHRIE
DAVIDB,Hi BEATE …nice to talk to you …VIVA !!!
Keep it up…ANTONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN…come on ANTONNNN…spill the ouzo or the shushi…
JANUARY 20th …can’t sleep …I am already HAPPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
David,
Seems like it’d be a lot like shooting Living Proof – I see more about what you mean when you talk about the importance of doing personal projects and publishing them. It gives you experience, and shows them you’re able to conduct your self well and become a part of their culture. shows them you understand them…
Thank you for doing this David!
Unlike Civi, I am not at all happy. It is freezing here in our happy little burg and to make matters worse, today is my first day back at work since last Wednesday. In the short time I was away, the pile of paper on my desk has reached truly mountainous proportions, which only leads me to believe that paper is a living thing, although I am not sure whether paper counts as animal or vegetable, and it spends the time I am not here busily reproducing itself in order to annoy me to the nth degree. I don’t know why paper would want to do this, except for the cheap thrills and the store coupons.
“busily reproducing itself in order to annoy me to the nth degree”
But weren’t we meant to be living in a paperless society by now? Those envelopes containing bills are the worst culprits, they reproduce faster than bacteria! Now, just gotta find a vaccine… :-)
Today was my first day of work, too.
We are going through a massive restructuring of the company, internal political stuff and the programs just going on, if there was no break at all.
But on the other side, it was quite successful, as I draw several ideas for essays. – This is my little escape from the daily madness of big corporations.
Now .. January, 20th .. for me always a special day, … here, makes me really curious ..
I think the best cure to bills is to not have them.
David;
Your posts from Rio have been great. What they’ve reinforced is that no matter how good your technical skills are (& yes; they have to be right up there) the most important skill is the ability to insert yourself into situations, interact with people and put them at ease.
I suppose they have to recognise you are treating them respectfully and with honesty.
If you can’t gain access to take the images you want then those technical skills aren’t any use anyway! Would you say that the most successful “documentary” photographers you know also possess great people skills too?
Michael the DOF and pain in the arse to use is the least of the problems it is the jagged movements of people moving etc that puts me off using the video in my camera. Maybe the video cam does not have the same DOF but there is a natural flow of movement. Video guys see the whole game very differently than the still guy dabblers……. http://www.tropfest.com/au/History.aspx
94ºF here today
“To me, there are three things we all should do every day. We should do this every day of our lives. Number one is laugh. You should laugh every day. Number two is think. You should spend some time in thought. And number three is, you should have your emotions moved to tears, could be happiness or joy. But think about it. If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that’s a full day. That’s a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you’re going to have something special.”
Jim Valvano (American basketball coach, Coach of North Carolina State U., 1980-1990; won NCAA championship, 1983 1946-1993)
VIVA RIO !!!
P.S KERRY …can we have a hint…??? ANTON …???
ok…I know…I am a civilian…I can wait …pffffffff…
SHOOT BURNIANS…
ROSSY…thanks for the report…I see IMANTS 94 and I can relate to AKAKY…
THOMAS 20th…I am looking for something special for you…like 45 candles…maybe…!!!
20th jan is one year since obama was inaugurated..
Maybe you adapt …very easily …hmmm…maybe you became one of them…
BUT there is another day…when the rooster will be out there…and the beer will be waiting…
and the dust will be all over…
Please someone stop me…
ROSS…
yes, i would put people skills right up there at the top….i have witnessed so many situations where one photographer might say “they would not let me take a picture” and another come back with a complete shoot from exactly the same situation…i think documentary photography in particular requires a whole set of skills from the tech, to people relationships, to sense of the significance, to simply having the endurance/patience to stay focused for long periods of time…
PATRICIA…
i was just thinking yesterday that if only i could somehow have anyone/everyone with me on a long haul project they would learn more in a few days than in a dozen workshops…my assistants always have an experience they claim that beats all others…i will go for some sleep tonight…but, when things are happening it is impossible for me to stay away….i do take short little naps, like in a cab ride, that definitely help…this trip to Rio is relatively short…just 12 days of shooting….but, i will return for a solid 5 weeks in a row i think…this trip was mostly just to find out if i could even work here in a reasonable way…
JASON…
we will touch base regarding your university when i return..yes, some of this shooting is quite similar to what i was doing with Living Proof…at least the work in the favelas…however, i will try to do many situations going from spending time with the privileged to the not so…all in all the best education one could ever have in any particular cultural environment…
cheers, david
Music Creeping Coastline Of Lights
by
Mark Lanegan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFBpAeyM6PI&feature=fvsr
(raining over here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzNosK82NSs
…when u smoke my weed man..u gots to call the green man…
SPACECOWBOY… I need your help…ASAP…
You know where to find me…Thank you
BURNIANS …
“life is a “struggling” photo essay which needs constant photoshop…”
civi
LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl
DAVID
I’ve been thinking about your assistants on this assignment. What an amazing experience for them to be “in the zone” with you! I’ve seen you in action a couple of times and will not forget it. You are a study in constant motion, stretching high and dipping low, off to one side and then the other, shooting from every angle and POV imaginable. Constantly click click clicking. Reminds me of a whirling dervish, not just the motion but the concentrated focus and sense of oneness with all that surrounds.
I also hope they have unlimited reserves of energy! Keeping up with you would truly be like running a marathon every day. Hope they can catch catnaps like you do! May this day and night off from shooting offer a chance for you all to recharge.
It sure sounds like Rio suits you to a T. Can’t wait to see your photos in magazine and book form. Stay safe and enjoy the hell out of every minute. I know you already are…
hugs
Patricia
david
you continue to inspire…
and
teach….
thank you…
tweet
tweet…..
**
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDoYWWUw2T8
Gun Cub? from Mark Lanegan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu87buNAE5E&feature=related
ok then …”Gun Club” it is…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLD_8IOE86w&feature=related
Come down to the willow garden
with me
come go with me
come go and see
Although I’ve howled across fields and my eyes
turned grey
are yours still the same?
are you still the same?
Carry Home
I have returned
through so many highways
and so many tears
Your letter never survived the heat of
my hand
my burning hand
my sweating hand
Your love never survived the heat of
my heart
my violent heart
in the dark
Carry Home
I have returned
through so many highways
and so many tears
Carry Home to where I am from
carry to the place that I have come
carry to the dust and flies behind me
carry to the cracks and caves on the face of me
Oh, but I didn’t change, I just had to work
Yeah, but I didn’t change, I just had to work
and now I’m home, and now I’m home
do you still want me?
Now, that I’m home
Come down to the willow garden with me
come go with me
come go and see
Panos, those seem very Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds-like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKlaV-9Vzsk
~ Civi, Civi, good things come to those who wait, my friend. This will be no exception. ;-)
KERRY, BURN Headquarters Lady,
Red hardcore Aussie,
I have to admit …only 2 fingernails left…and nobody wants me to start with my toes…
hmmmm…
BUT as I said before …I can wait…!!!
Today I am drinking soda …For my BURNIANS !!!
civi.. go out, take pics! have no camera? get a click and throw one!
Civi, Civi, is there any way we can help? You are always there for us, let us be there for you now…
hugs
Patricia
David;
I can only imagine what your assistants get out of the time. For instance; I watched Martin Parr at work on the UK streets in a Magnum doco on TV a while ago. It was only a 5-10 minute clip but I was amazed what I learnt by actually watching him work.
It showed me how willing people are to be photographed if you approach them openly and with confidence. Approaching people was always the most difficult for me to come to terms with. Especially coming from a natural history background; a tree doesn’t often tell you to bugger off when you shoot it! :-)
Cheers
OUR PATRICIA, my white Eagle,
i am looking for some BURNIANS…it has been long time since I’ve heard from them…
and I am kinda getting very anxious…I miss Spacecowboy too…and I just hope that everyone is doing fine
out there…
of course I thank the spirits …everyday …cause at least we have the twists from PLATO!!!
EVA,
i am not gonna buy a camera…nope…as long as I have you…ALL of YOU…I am ok :)))
Keep BURNING …keep shooting…keep tweeting…keep Facebooking…keep Skyping..I LOVE U
P.S Thank you OurPAT…hugs to ED…!!!
HERVE …be safe…
please follow MR.VINK’S suggestion…and throw us a pic …
Oime…BURN is getting really HOTTTTT !!!
AKAKY
# 600…gotchya :)))
CURSES, FOILED AGAIN!!!!
OIME :))) !!!
Hiya there!
Just a quick update. We’re starting to paint the gallery here on Friday, and fit flooring next weekend. Should be interesting. We’re also looking for submissions for after March, but for the time being, as we don’t have any grants or funding we do need contributions from authors (though, we have probably some of the cheapest square feet in Cardiff).
http://www.thirdfloorgallery.com
(Currently, this page is mostly for either bookmarking or for going from it to the facebook page)
Finally got that burn magazine top 10 list done:
http://bjartebjartebjarte.blogspot.com/
CIVILIAN
Civi..Civi..i am, here..you are with me, on my mind, in the palm of my hand, at the tip of my fingers..sweetly held, shivering, silent, smiling. Civi..civi..i am not gone. i have been sans internet. i have been at the loft, thanks to David and his eternally kind kindness.
The wind howled and, smashed the windows, the hardy Brooklyn landscape girded its loins, piled on the layers, the gloves, the feathers, the wool, the scarves, huddled unto itself, in warm little lofts, bundled under down quilts or perhaps naked on fur rugs for all i know..frozen fingers wrapped round coffee cups at Marlow’s Diner, shoulders brushing shoulders, hips swishing against hips, adoring looks passing unchecked over plates of diner fare or through frosty windows, the odd piece of debris blowing up the street like Tom Hyde’s sagebrush tossing end over end up up Broadway deserted except for the odd mini-van driven by a Hassidic Jew, black hat perched almost jauntily atop a dark head, not doing much to keep out the cold, turning a corner and disappearing down an eerily vacant street. Where is the life, i wondered, faces peeking breifly out of windows and drawing hastily back into sheltered interiors, hovering over stoves and little tables in tiny apartment kitchens..but always, always the lights twinkled in merry disregard across the water, beckoning to any who dared to brave the elements to come, come ye olde frozen souls to Manhattan. If you can find a subway that is..
Civi..am making my way now to e-mail. Writing you. Join me, please.
Love
Kathleen
nice one bjarte – good to see your perspective and knowing your work i can see why you chose as you have.
as an aside – i still cannot post comments to your blog.. no idea why.. same with other |NKF peoples blogs.. very odd.
also – it’s antons niece..
:o)
happy new year my friend.
also bjarte – please email me as i have a possible exhibition lead for you in new york..
norwegians only, apparently.
KATIE, my Street Fighter, KATHLEEN FONSECA…
your e-mail …is whatever I call …THE TRUE FRIEND…
OASIS through my e-mails…
OUTOPIA for my everyday day struggles
NIRVANA for my silent nights
OIME …with people like you …around in the Universe…life can be BURNing …eternally !!!
BURNIANS …you are the Flames of a BURNing Mythotopia !!!
P.S BJARTE…only this…keep digging…BURNIANS are amazing…whatever your top 10 is…
you can never go wrong !!!
BURNIANS…THOMAS BREGULLA…broke his leg…
Please, send him …good energy…and good spirits…
WE LOVE U THOMAS…
you are a BURNIAN…you are strong…
BJARTE..
thanks for looking and thinking…good list i feel…
KATHLEEN FONSECA…
i forgot to tell you how to control the heat in the Burn Hotel..you can make it warmer in front and cooler in back…next time
David: I often too dislike the advantages of digital when I review the photos at the end of the day…what was supposed to be a great and very inspire photo session, ends as not so great pics at the screen of my computer. At least with film there is a time lag than can help looking the pics in a more calm way (and perhaps more objective).
My toughts
cheers
Jorge
JORGE PRAT…
well, maybe…i usually do not like looking at my pictures with film either…but, as you say, at least enough time goes by that your disappointment is delayed…in any case, if i were not forced to edit or look at my work, i might delay delay delay the pain for a very long time….
David.. have you happened to be at Copacabana beach by night, after midnight.. are there still kids collecting cardboard, bottles, cans.. whatever.. or just sleeping on the beach? I wonder how much has changed with the presidency of Lula, I know many people (those I know at least) had great hopes.. it was one heart and gutwrenching experience.. kids.. with dead eyes..
David B
Thanks for correcting me, it’s fixed now. Your problem with commenting should have something to do with your settings. I don’t know exactly which setting though.
Happy new year you too!
Civilian
I almost agree with “you can never go wrong”, because there are certainly good and bad no matter what you search for in life, be it music, art, photography, friends or coffee for that matter (!). Burn is no exception. But the quality is generally very high, which is why I HAD TO make this list.
David AH
Thank you back, this list wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for you.
My interest for photography probably wouldn’t be this big if it weren’t for you.
DAH,
reassuring to hear you also have the urge to delay looking at pics from a project. When shooting E6 I sometimes would string out untill the last minute untill I was really up against it with the client. But when you see that jewel shinning magnificently from the the lightbox, phew ….what a relief. I suppose it’s the same with digi but the timescales are forshortened as everyone wants everything NOW…
best of luck in Rio.
P.S. also reassuring to hear that others get so involved in “getting the shot” that you end up wading into the sea with phone,wallet etc in pockets. Lost quite a few phone this way.
Cheers
Ian
DAVID
Naturally as photographers most of us know the feeling you are describing of disappointment in the initial editing stage, and because digital is so immediately accessible, it makes it worse. Nothing, or very little, quite lives up to the expectations and hopes… and in the immediate aftermath of shooting, nothing seems to have adequately captured the kinaesthetic excitement and vividness of the experience.
Later, much later, if one goes back and looks at the photos again, with a more detached but also possibly more open eye, there may be gems overlooked in the heat of the moment that are good or even great photographs… but they weren’t necessarily part of the deliberate or conscious process of shooting. At least in my case, this happens over and over again, and I have to keep reminding myself that a week from now or a month from now, and certainly a year from now, these pictures won’t look the same to me… It is part of the mysterious process of still photography that it has this delayed pyschological awareness component to it… if we were capable of visually capturing exactly what we saw and felt, no more and no less, then I’m not sure we would learn as much from photography as we do… it is the unexpected mutations in awareness that come with the time delay that are part of this mysterious process. I remember way back in Road Trip days your talking about the editing process for a book or exhibition or extended photo essay and how we had to forget what was on our minds while shooting and concentrate on what story the pictures in hand were capable of telling best, or something like that… now, of course there has to be a preliminary crash edit while you’re in the middle of an assignment like this… but inasmuch as you are also ‘crashing’ from the adrenalin high of total involvement in the subject and the shooting process at the same time, I don’t see how even you, even with your years and years of experience, could objectively evaluate your pictures so soon after the event… usually better to wait as long as possible. Fortunately, storage is cheap these days, so one can do some triage editing without deleting things forever.
Disappointment,
This sounds familiar.
I suspect that a great part of the difference between the disappointment felt when shooting digital VS film comes down to the relief felt when viewing your film shoot after the nail biting wait. This is especially true with commercial assignments where you gotta come back with the goods. My first time through in film days was a quick look at everthing just to make sure I had the shots I needed, relief, thanks to the lab and film gods, then a closer look.
Digital largely eliminates that anxiety and lets you go back and re-shoot immediatly, correct tech issues etc. In the end it changes the way we shoot, allowing us to take chances we likely never would have with film.
No going back for me.
David, Jorge, Sidney, When I download photographs; digital or scanned negatives, I try to keep in mind that they are just that … negatives. They need to be developed, in my case in Lightroom. I also find the slideshow option in Lightroom invaluable for showing your finished photograph without distraction.
I also find it easy to be drawn to The One”: you know, the photograph that you just know is the special one on the entire roll or card. With film, especially scanned negative film, you have time to consider all of your photographs: you make a preview scan and then look at it in detail while making the full resolution scan. With RAW digital, you are confronted with an image that looks not to shabby, but you must remember that it is just a digital negative and is showing nowhere near its potential.
David, I’ve very-much enjoyed reading your thought processes during your current shoot – more please – particularly the background as to why you chose to work in the favela, HOW you found a contact and guide/introducer in the favella, whether you ever got the photograph of the boy with the pistol and if so how you managed to reveal him to us but conceal him to the police?? I know you speak Spanish but do you speak Portuguese? This kind of information is not tech stuff but, rather, an invaluable teaching resource for emerging photographers and what I hoped to see here on Burn from the outset – not just from you but from other established photographers of your acquaintance.
And have you tried out the M9 yet?
Mike.
DAH, ref your last twitter…
I found with film, I never knew if I definitly had it in the bag 100%, so kept on pushing,pushing to get the shots. I find with digi there is a disappointment when reviewing after a day’s shoot (as mike said above….give it time) but also I know I have the shot so this can sometimes lead me to “relaxing” on the job and sometimes not pushing as I should.
Exciting stuff
cheers
Ian
OOPs sorry it was Sidney above who said give it time.
apologies
Ian
Mike and Sidney: I totally agree with your reflexions. One of the main advantages of digital is viewing the shot inmediatelly, as long as one keeps in mind that the RAW image is like a negative that needs post processing job, so it won’t look to good viewed on the camera. Besides, one can get very anxious chimping continously on the screen of the camera, loosing then concentration on the subject and that special “state of grace” son much needed when shooting on real situation.
Jorge
DAVID
I have a terrific contact for you in Rio. Sorry I didn’t think of pursuing this until I read today’s tweet about your wanting to make contacts with all levels of society in Rio. Her name is Martha Albuquerque and she is a photographer I met on PBase.com. Martha lives in Rio and would LOVE to help you. I mentioned in my message to her that maybe she could accompany you on a shoot either this time or in February and she’s delighted with idea!
I’m sending you her email and phone numbers by email (david@burnmagazine.org) with the subject, “contact in Rio.” Best wishes!
Patricia
PATRICIA…
i have no time to read all the comments here, but just happened on now….many thanks ..i will look for your email…
hugs, david
Wow, I still find it mind boggling that David doesn’t like to look at his work, especially since he spends so much time looking at the work of others. Each to their own I guess, and it works for him. I wish I could look at a lot more of it. I learn a lot from what little I see.
Regarding the picture you see on the back of your digital camera, that is not the RAW file, that is a tiny JPEG the camera, at least Canons, creates and applies settings to. It’s not good for much beyond seeing composition, blown out highlights, and getting an idea about sharpness, all of which which is useful in itself, but it’s not the RAW image.
And Imants, regarding the 5d mk 2 video, I’ve seen a lot of reports of choppy motion and stuttering during pans but have yet to experience any of that myself (just reviewed a few short tests I did). Researching on-line I find that a lot of people have those problems but that they have either not upgraded the firmware or are not shooting fully manual. I trust that there are situations where those problems occur, but I suspect that they aren’t that numerous. And I’ve no doubt that dedicated video cameras have many advantages compared to just a few for the mk 2, but it is essentially a free video camera and provides great creative possibilities for people willing to figure out and master its idiosyncrasies.
Hi All
a quick note to let you know that Jason Eskenazi’s powerful book Wonderland: A Fairy Tale of the Soviet Monolith is back in print. The first edition sold out lickity-split, and I suspect these will as well.
You can get it here: http://www.jasoneskenazi.com/wonderland.html
The USSR was not only a vast closed territory with extensive geographical boundaries that stretched from Europe through Asia but is also a huge well of memory or dis-memory – a utopian vision that became a dystopian nightmare lasting nearly a century. The story of Communism is the story of the 20th century. For many, the Soviet Union existed, like their childhood, as a fairy tale where many of the realities of life were hidden from plain view. When the Berlin Wall finally fell so too did the illusion of that utopia. But time changes memory. The ex-Soviets confused the memory of their innocent youth for their nation’s utopian vision, unable to confront its history and thus creating nostalgia for tragedy. This book tries to seek and portray the socialist dream, the nightmare of the USSR beneath the veneer and the reality that emerged after the fall. And like all fairy tales try to teach us: the hard lessons of self-reliance.
IAN AITKEN..
exactly…the problem with digi can be too fast self satisfaction…with digi , if you keep looking at the back of your camera, you keep going “backwards”…i see photogs who are “chimping” instead of taking more pictures…..with film you are forced to go forward forward always..sure it is nice to check your exposures, light balance, strobe coverage etc with digi…but, other than that, it is crazy to keep looking at the back of the camera if in any kind of great picture situation…
best use of digi for me is what just happened to me less than an hour ago..i just came from a favela and had worked my way in with the guys with guns and drugs…they were pretty “hopped up” on something…a jittery kind of high…not the kind of high you really want with men holding guns…but, i had no choice (except to stay in my hotel)..in any case, having the digi camera to show them exactly what i was taking is simply perfect…they did not want their faces to show directly, so i was able to prove to them on the spot that i had followed their instructions…i always follow orders from men with guns…and always happy to leave with my cards and camera intact….downloading now.
cheers, david
DAVID,
I am just logging to the site every evening after work hoping to find your latest Twitter messages and to see what you are up to with this Rio assignment… It is a real pleasure to follow your path there and I have to say that I cannot wait to see what comes out of this trip….the fact that you think you “can nail this one to the wall” makes me even more eager and anxious to see the results….
For those who want to have a feel for Rio while waiting to see your work, they may want to check out the images that Francesco Zizola did on the “beach culture” in Rio. Some real nice photographs and Francesco is a photographer from NOOR whose work I very much enjoy.
http://www.noorimages.com/index.php?id=2766
Have fun in Brazil David!!!! Few of us who are stuck in a freezing cold winter in Europe would quite fancy being there….
Cheers,
Eric
David, good point about digital allowing you to show subjects the shoot as a means of gainging their confidence. You have mentioned before that you sometimes use a policy of not publishing a photograph unless both participants (photographer and subject) agree to publication. In your current situation, what would you do if you had what you consider to be a killer shot and the subject says “No”?
Do you press delete or does it go into the archive? How do you explain to the subject that you want to keep the photo if you have promised not to publish it?
When I shoot digital I don’t usually chimp. what’s the point if you are shooting street? either you have it or you missed it so you may as well wait until you download.
Mike.
It will certainly be interesting to see what David has produced, however I’m afraid we won’t see the photographs until they’re published, which I assume will be many months. Also, it’s going to be illuminating to see how the photos DAH produces differ from other images we’ve seen from Rio, whether through photographers from agencies like Noor (see eric’s link above) or from films like City of God…
from David, I’m imagining images which are truly Harvey-esque — low light, strong silhouettes, passion, color, depth — an echo of all his prior work from Cuba and the rap world… how can it not be? He’s DAH man!
MIKE R
On my magnetic wall I have a print of what I consider one of the best photos I’ve ever taken…and I’m the only one who will ever see it. I took it in April 2008 when on a find-what-you-can-find shoot in an inner city Detroit neighborhood. It is a pic of 7 of the 23 children in front of the house where they lived with their mother and father. The mother gave me permission to shoot but when I returned with prints a couple of weeks later, the father said I could not use these photos anywhere. He was very nice and we had a wonderfully interesting talk, but he was very firm in his decision. It still makes me sad.
Patricia
The digital camera=photographic crack? Hmmmmmmm…………
DQ – I wonder if we will see these images at all when the publication comes out… Thousands of photos and probably hundreds of great shots.. and maybe a hundred outstandingly exceptional shots that have to be edited down to the 10 or so in the story. I hope David is able to show us the “out takes” as they were – the ones not able to be published but still exceptional.
Patricia, if we came to visit you, would we be able to see it?
Thats so sad they say you can’t use it. However, there has to be a way to use such an image… I get all confused with the “ethics” of photography.
For commercial a model release is needed.
for art though? What about for journalism? If you’re on public property, side walk or street it’s ok to shoot and use the images unless it’s of a public figure, if on private property and permission is given to shoot, then aren’t they giving permission to use such images as well? Can’t you use it in a portfolio?
Jim Powers – You’re an editor right? what is your position? anyone else?
Jason;
If “in front of the house” meant they were on their (the owner/s) private property e.g lawn in front of house etc then I suppose the owner/s could pull the pin on the images. Maybe similar to the White Family story???
I don’t want to put words in Patricia’s mouth but I don’t think she’s had many people ask not to have their photos taken for her Blue Mirror project? She probably just lucked out on this occasion; but of course Murphy’s Law dictates that it would be one of your best images!
When I shoot in a bar (private property) I ask the owner’s permission out of courtesy of course, but also because it gives me the “right” to shoot there. Nothing in writing of course so I suppose legally it counts for nought! But better than nothing…
I’m organising some times to shoot kids getting ready to go out (in their homes) so have promised to let them see and ok all images. I’m not sure whether I’ll go as far as model releases though.
I was nervous when starting my kids project whether there would be any hassles shooting kids at the beaches, parks etc; but so far (touches wood for luck!) no hassles. But I also bring a ton of A4 documents with me to give to kids and/or parents describing the project, has links to images and all of my contact details.
One UK photo library I sell images through are now asking for model releases for editorial images. This is a model release that stipulates the images will only be used for editorial purposes; not a general model release. They’ve only done this because they use US agents and don’t have as much control on final use. In other words; worried about getting their arses sued off! :-)
DAH,
If you have the time before you return take the slow passenger ferry out to Niteroi. Kinda like the assignment you sent me on, only better. The terminal is right next to the city Airport. -Santos Dumont- The beach just below the Contemporary Art Museum has some rather exquisite vistas ;)
Rio, e bom demais não é?
Jason, even if the photo had been taken on public property — which it wasn’t — I would still respect the father’s wishes not to show it publicly. It’s just the way things go sometimes. Fortunately, not often.
And Ross is right, I’ve been lucky with the Blue Mirror project. Everyone who has agreed to be photographed has been fine with the idea of my using the photo online, in a book or in any way I choose. I haven’t even bothered with model release forms. And this includes the parents of children too. Of course I always ask permission first. If the parent isn’t there, I give my card to the adult who’s watching over the kids and ask that they give it to the parents with the instruction that the parents email or phone me if they have any questions or concerns.
I do think people are comforted when they see my professional-looking business card. It gives them confidence that I am serious about my photography. It also gives them a way to see my work (on my website) and ways to reach me. From the start I’ve given a card to every person who has posed for this project. Most of them are strangers to me before I drag them off the street or wherever. I then invite them to email me and I’ll send them a copy of the photo by return email attachment. I’ve stayed true to that.
By the way you can buy full-color reasonably-priced business cards at http://www.overnightprints.com/. I pay a bit extra for the heavier weight paper and have been very pleased. Maybe cards aren’t for everyone but they sure are helpful to me.
Patricia
DAVID
I’ve just sent you another email regarding Martha Albuqerque. The subject is “update on Rio contact”
Patricia
Ross and Patricia – Glad to hear the points of view you both have. As for card – I was shooting these kids climbing all over a soccer (football) net while their dad was playing across the field. I gave them my card and after his game they showed it to their dad and he just tossed it into the grass… So I went to talk to him to explain why I was shooting and he was fine with it… So they do work!
Also – just before new years, I shot for the Harlem Globetrotters and they had us handing out these cards with the website and gallery number on it. and in tiny print – it has stipulations that by accepting the card, you’ve given permission to shoot and use the images. I feel that’s a bit sneaky, but all the person has to do is deny ever being handed one… I think in writing is the best way – but is such a hassle.
What happens if the book is published and the person sues saying they didn’t want it printed in a book??
Jason, Ross, et al,
There are the legal considerations, of course, but beyond that are the ethical and interpersonal considerations… one may have a ‘right’ to use a photo legally, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you should use it against the subject’s wishes, and especially not against a parent’s wishes if the subject is a child… it all depends on the context, of course. America and Britain tend to be very ‘legalistic’ societies where people are concerned with whether they have the ‘right’ or not to do something… a year and a half ago on ‘Road Trips’ there was a long discussion about the legalities, the ethics, and the karmic implications of getting the subjects’ permission to take and use photographs. You might want to go thru the archives and look that up… my personal position is, why would you want to create bad feelings and hostility towards yourself and other photographers by assering some ‘right’ that makes other people feel unhappy, uncomfortable, or threatened? Just because it’s a ‘great shot’? If you’re a newspaper or news magazine or wire service pj and it’s part of a breaking story or reportage, that’s another matter of course… and usually in that case there are fairly well defined guidelines for that. But for personal projects, I think you have to be a little more sensitive and considerate. For one thing, a lot of the general public may have mistaken ideas about what your ‘rights’ are, and you could end up beaten into a vegetative state by an irate mob (it happened to a Sacremento Bee photographer)…
But, beyond that, I think there is a deeper implicit ethic in taking photographs.. most of what we photograph, whether people, events, or objects, are not things we have ‘made’ ourselves or ‘own’ ourselves or are responsible for ourselves… you can go on and on about the ‘creative vision’ of the photogrpaher, but most of our subjects are things we happened upon vicariously but actually ‘belong’ to other people… by entering into some kind of dance, social negotiation, relationship, mutual interaction- whatever you want to call it- with the subject (all of which I would define as part of ‘getting close’ to the subject), and then getting either tacit, implicit, or, where appropriate, explicit permission is part of being a reponsible social actor instead of being a predator, a thief, or a vampire. When, where, and how you do that… and how far you have to go… is different in every situation. That’s what being a photographer means, or should mean. I think that’s what DAH is alluding to when he says “good light, good composition, correct exposure… that’s the easy part of photography.”
Hi all,
Can someone tell me if joint submissions (two photographers collaborating) to Burn and to The Burn Emerging Photo Grant are allowed?
Ross: yes, once I learned to flirt with women here in Bucharest on the streets and to chill with the mafia things have been going much better for me. I was with my girlfriend last week, the photographer Aga Luczakowska, photographing peasants up at the Ukraine border and I learned a lot just from photographing alongside here–Aga approached people and shot lots of pictures sometimes when I hesitated a bit and didn’t shoot so much or at all. It was interesting to see how she photographs and what she found interesting and also how Aga interacted with people and then how our pictures differed when we got back here to Bucharest and looked at them onscreen.
Nice links:
http://www.1854.eu/2010/01/photojournalist_one_of_the_wor.html
and http://theindependentphotobook.blogspot.com/ just started up by Colberg of Conscientious: http://jmcolberg.com/weblog/2010/01/the_independent_photo_book.html#more
Dellicson,
Aga is your girlfriend??? You lucky devil…. I don’t ever want to hear another complaint from you again, about anything!!!
“What happens if the book is published and the person sues saying they didn’t want it printed in a book??”
Jason, if you let your subjects know ahead of time your plans/hopes/dreams for the project and they seem to be cool with it, that’s the best you can do. I guess there could be folks out there who might change their minds but I think that’s extremely rare. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. If we photographers treat our subjects with respect, chances are that’s what we’ll receive back from them.
Patricia
Patricia – Great advice I think, Thank you!
Sidney;
I would never use an image if I thought it was going to demean them etc. So yes I concur with you. I just try to treat others the way I would like to be treated when taking photos. I’ve been fortunate in that all the parents I’ve talked to are only too happy for me to photograph their kids because it’s a positive project.
I also always have cards too, but carry a bunch of the A4’s permanently in my camera shoulder bag. It’s pretty hard to explain why you shooting over the racket of a heavy metal band, so the A4’s come in very handy!
As for the interpersonal stuff; I always reckon the job description of a photographer is “professional waiter”. You spend 01% taking photos and 99.99% of the time waiting, (chatting, breaking the ice etc)!
I’m sure your own body language, openness, and ability to put people at ease are the most important aspects. It has also been the hardest for me to come to grips with, after only ever shooting nature. But I have found that people like the fact that someone is interested in their everyday life.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised how willing people are to be photographed. I’ve also found that having a track record of published material is a help (not essential, but a help) because people tend to take you more seriously.
I also think the ability to act like a bit of a goose and to be prepared to make a fool of yourself is a great ice-breaker too!
I’m shooting kids most of the time and there are potential minefields. If no parents are present I always ask the kids to take the cards and A4 home and to tell their parents to contact me if they have any queries..
But when you are in full view of people; or in my case often shooting while standing waist deep in a river or the sea, people can see that you’re pretty serious about the job in hand. It’s not as though you are hiding in the bushes with an overcoat, dark glasses, a pocket full of sweeties and a cell phone camera…..
Sidney Atkins:
Aga, the great young Polish photographer is indeed my girlfriend. She just came and spent 2 weeks here with me in Bucharest (I was in Poland with her in November). She is now in the process of moving here to Bucharest to live with me.
Ross – I’m unfamiliar with a4’s… do you have an example you could email me please?
jason@jasonhouge.com
Sidney & Ross, I totally agree – using defaming or de-meaning images are a discredit to the photographer… Unless the project is propaganda for a cause… but even still… using images in good taste is probably best.
Jason; Just an A4 sheet of paper with my letterhead and a project overview on it! :-)
Thank you Ross!
david…
VIVA!!!!
brazil….
your adventures
are
felt
and
appreciated….
**are you reading the tweets too Jim P?!?!?!?**
ERIC…DQ
thanks for the link to Zizzola beach culture story in Rio…nice work indeed…i have always been a fan of Francesco…i want to have some of that beach culture of course and the beach is indeed the melting pot for all classes in Rio…however, i do want to go beyond the beach culture and Zizzola must have done so as well…it is hard for me to imagine that he would only do this…in any case, and i think both of you can imagine, i am totally in my element…all the right stuff is here….but i have never seen so many armed people in my life, from the rich to the poor….everybody seems ready to go into combat or a firefight at any moment…yet, it is quiet..at least for the moment…and Rio is the friendliest place in general..a 24 hr a day fashion show…as an eclectic mix as you can imagine and, as everybody knows, bustling sexy Rio snugs into what has to be some of the most beautiful coastal geography on the planet…simply put, there is grist for the mill…the texture i love….yes, it will be awhile before you see this work….it will be quite awhile before i finish this work as well…ok, off to sleep…decisions to make…like, do i go back where i was yesterday with dealers/guns or quit while i am ahead??…there is always a better picture…..hmmmmmmm
cheers, david
Dellicson
“The Wall Street Journal has published its list of the 200 best and worst jobs in 2009. At the top of the list is Actuary with a top-level salary of $161,000 and software engineers, who can hope to earn $129,000. Photojournalists, on the other hand, are way down in that list, coming in 189th position with a starting salary of $16,000 and a top-level salary of $60,000.”
One of my friends retired recently after working for the past twenty odd years as an Actuary. He indeed did make piss-pots full of money, but hated every minute of it. Last year was my worst year in more than twenty years as a photographer. I wish I had his money, but I wouldn’t dream of changing places with him.
“As a rock on the seashore he standeth firm, and the dashing of the waves disturbeth him not. He raiseth his head like a tower on a hill, and the arrows of fortune drop at his feet. In the instant of danger, the courage of his heart sustaineth him; and the steadiness of his mind beareth him out.”
Akhenaton quotes (King of Egypt, 14th century BC)
Gordon:
Of course, of course. As DAH says, it is a challenge living the life one wants to live. Better to have an adventurous life with little money than to have a boring one with lots of it. . . although I cannot go on without some serious commercial work coming in right away now in the new year.
DAH:
I haven’t been following everything: are you on assignment in Brazil??? or is it a personal project???
I want to come visit you with my Aga, the polish photographer at some point in the next few months in New York. Will you be there? Is the loft still open?
Best,
Davin
DAH
it must be strange to look at your own work from so long ago. it’s a very beautiful work none the less. love your grainy pictures ;)))
also wanted to share with the rest of the crowd a delightful page -collection of audio interviews with the fine photographers
shared by a fellow photog on my facebook page today
http://www.lensculture.com/audio.html
Jeez David, every tourist with a point-and-shoot goes into the Favelas and takes snapshots of hopped-up, heavily armed drug dealers. Most people who go there probably don’t even know Rio has a beach. I’m sure pictures of it must be very rare. Personally, I’m hoping for at least a few shots that include horses. Not that I’d ever presume to tell you what to shoot. This is proving to be a great learning experience.
Given all this access, I’m sure it will be a bit frustrating not to get to see anything for a long time, then very little at that. Perhaps when you wrap up shooting for this phase, you might consider giving a short, illustrative slideshow at the loft? Kind of a logical pedagogical wrap up to the entire enterprise. Probably not the way you work, I know. No criticism from me. I can’t express how much I appreciate what you’re already doing by taking us along on this job to the great, probably unprecedented, extent you already have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2YcFcunLF8&feature=related
Philip Glass, Freezing
Lovely weather in Greece…I am dancing with the octopus…
Hmmm…Rio has a beach :)))
JIM …Nice to see ya around…What not to love…
THOMAS…enjoy
i am dancing in the BURN… na,nanananannan
I am singing in the BURN…oioiooiooiooooooooooooo
i am drinking in the BURN…
CIVI,
I’m dancing on one leg .. :)
what not to love
On the 13th Day of Christmas, if there is such a thing…
If you’re a kid, this is the most wonderful time of the year (or it was when I started this piece). First, there’s the anticipation of Christmas Eve and then the joy of Christmas itself, followed by a week off where you get to play with all of your new stuff. It’s a wonderful time for adults as well. The Christmas shopping season is over until Labor Day (or is it the Fourth of July? It’s very difficult to tell anymore) and the bills haven’t come in yet and everyone gets to sit back and relax for a bit. So life, at least for the moment, is good. Of course, the gifts the adults got are nowhere as interesting as the stuff the kids got, but then that’s just the way life works, isn’t it? Adults know that there is no right jolly old elf handing out free stuff on Christmas Eve, just other adults who have to pay for the merchandise. If all this sounds like I am being philosophical about the Christmas spirit of giving, it’s because I am. This year I got a tie and twelve pairs of boxer shorts.
The tie is a very nice tie—it’s bright red with some kind of yellow design on it—but let’s face it, if a kid had gotten a tie and underwear for Christmas you’d be able to hear the screams of outrage from one end of our happy little burg to the other. Every kid knows that Santa keeps a list of who’s naughty and nice, and that according to the best evidence available he checks that list at least twice before the big giveaway on the 24th of December; the unspoken corollary to all this checking and rechecking is that if a kid has been going out of his way to be nice, the kid expects Santa to come across with some pretty damn good gifts or he can forget about the free milk and cookies next year. Kids can be remarkably unforgiving that way. They want great Christmas gifts, and ties and underwear are definitely not what kids have in mind when they come running down the stairs on Christmas Eve.
When you’re an adult, of course, things are different, and I must admit that the boxer shorts intrigue me. Allow me to say here that no, I do not have an underwear fetish, for those of you filthy-minded enough to think such a thing. I do not believe that there is such a thing as a boxer fetish, in any case. Boxers are too plebian a garment to support the incredible weight of the erotic imagination, which tends to prefer the frillier foundation garments of attractive young women. The foundation garments of middle-aged men tend to be much less interesting. What makes these particular pairs of boxers interesting is their color. I now own multiple sets of dark green camouflage boxer shorts, complete with a rippled leaf effect. Other pairs feature skulls and crossbones, also with the same dark green rippled effect.
I must tell you now that I regard the sudden militarization of my underwear drawer with no small degree of trepidation. I do not know right now what my policy should be in the event these new boxers attempt to extend their control from the underwear drawer to the sock drawer or, worse yet, should they attempt a violent overthrow of my tee-shirt drawer, which may lead to a destabilization of the world underwear order and the possibility of a conflict hitherto unheard of in the annals of underwear. Appeasement does not appear to be the right policy; we all know what ultimately happens to appeasing powers when they passively face an aggressor; but nothing in the boxers’ current behavior suggests that there is any immediate cause for alarm. There is merely a vague disquiet settling over this particular chest of drawers, a troubling disquiet similar to the psychic tension that haunted Europe in the years between 1933 and 1936.
I must also tell you that I am not quite certain what the point of camouflaged underwear is in the first place. At a time when newspapers print photographs of US Marines fighting while wearing flak jackets, bathroom sandals, and IheartNY boxer shorts there would seem little need for camouflaged underwear at all, much less give several pairs to someone with as unmilitary a disposition as mine. The purpose of camouflage is, as I understand it, is concealment from people who are naturally, politically, or personally hostile to you. To achieve this admirable circumstance, nature and the world’s militaries do their best to blend into their natural surroundings. Given that underwear’s natural surroundings are under your trousers, hence the origins of the word underwear, the whole point of camouflaged boxer shorts would seem an exercise in inutility, if not just plain dumb. The wearer, of course, might choose to make use of the boxers’ camouflage effect by wearing the shorts on the outside of their pants, but this will cause chafing after a while, especially on a hot day, and the practice does tend to lead to political and social upheaval in Central America, a tragic and for most part unforeseen consequence that the American political philosopher Allen Konigsberg first pointed out in the early 1970’s.
I suppose that one could argue, and some people will, if only for the hell of it—some people are like that— that one might use camouflaged boxer shorts in order to confuse any passing sexually transmitted diseases and thereby escape their notice unscathed, but as the wearer of camouflaged boxer shorts is seldom wearing said boxers when the passing sexually transmitted diseases actually pass, this argument seems a bit weak, if not positively foolish. Many of the other proposed arguments also seem flimsy when held up to examination. The use of such underwear in deer hunting, for example, founders on some of the same reasons that limit the boxers’ military utility. Deer have little or no color vision; they cannot even see the bright orange hunting jackets the law requires hunters to wear here in the Vampire State; and they have no X-ray vision at all, rendering the point of camouflaged underwear moot. Camouflaged underwear might, in theory, be of some use in certain situations, but when such situations depart from the realm of theory and enter that of the quotidian it is almost always the result of excessive beer consumption and often concludes with some dumbass falling out of the tree their hunting stand is in (no, it wasn’t me, and no, this part of the story is not apocryphal). Now, your average American white-tailed deer is not the brightest bulb in the animal kingdom, but they are intelligent enough to know that seeing a beer sodden human being falling out of a tree in the middle of the forest is not at all a good sign, whatever the color of his boxer shorts, and that the best way to extend their chances of living to a ripe old age is to scram, split, and otherwise vamoose in as expeditious a manner as possible. The camouflaged boxers might hide our gravity challenged hunter from a crew of searching paramedics, but I think the low moans interrupted every so often with long bursts of profanity would probably negate the ripple leaf effect of the underwear. Actually, I think the swearing would be a dead giveaway, but you never can tell; stranger things have happened, you know. Did I mention that the tie is red?
I asked for, but did not receive, boxer shorts for Christmas. I’m glad that my old ones are still serviceable, because it’s too cold around here to go commando.
..boxers (as in boxer shorts) are sexy.. I must ponder now if camouflaged ones are as well, never thought of it.. hmmm..
Boxers …no idea…:)))
Justin, Eva; who needs boxers??? Now this IS sexy….. :-)
STUBBIES…
ROSSYYYYYYYYYYYYY…you are daman…
i am still waiting…shall I buy boxers instead …???
SHOOT …shoot …shoot …I MISS YOU ALL and I love u allllllllllllll
Ross
Whew, I’m glad we’ve got that cleared up.
Gordon; Now I’ve sorted that out, does it put me in line for a Nobel Peace Prize too??? :-)
THOMAS,
please take photos of your broken leg…
what did I tell you…if there is one that he can pull an essay…
that one will be you, my everyday MAN…!!!
BURNIANS… you are all top of the line , AAA , golden hearts…BRAVO MR.HARVEY…
and from the BEST …I am waiting …only the BEST…DAHY included…
not me…I am just a civilian…hihihihi
THANK YOU …keep it up…
KATIE…check e-mail…
I got to go back to work …
BUT I will not leave you (alone)…not yet …cause the BAR HAS BEEN RAISED…long time ago …
LOVE and hugs… and pics…I am dancing one one leg…just for support…PLEASE DONATE…
Where are you Sponsors…UNIVERSE…we LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
P.S MR.HARVEY…easy…you haven’t visit Greece yet…Danger is what we breath…
I better stop before the Greeks( PANOS,THODORIS,VASILIOS…come and trash me!!!)
ROSS,
That’s great! Love where he’s riding the bus next to the lil’ ol’ lady :-)
Ross
Your application is in the mail.
DAH,
i’m glad you returned to Brasil (and sincerely hope this could lead soon to a revisit to Portugal) and wishing you a great stay and lots of first-rate photos, places and people to remember…
and all,
as an example of another recent work at Rio (i already mentioned it before but present circumstances, and a new link, make it more engaging…) go see ‘Violence in Rio de Janeiro’ by João Pina, at http://www.joao-pina.com/features/violencerio/ he’s a young (born in 1980) portuguese photographer now based in Buenos Aires, Argentina. i recommend to also check his site for other features, tearsheets (more from Rio and São Paulo) and archive.
um forte abraço para todos,
Carlos Filipe
ps. just as a side note (to DAH being in Rio), there’s also a Christ statue in Lisbon, akin ‘the Redeemer’ in Corcovado/Rio de Janeiro, since it was covered by fog in my bridge picture/burn cover at burnians…
Carlos
Thanks for the Pina link. Fantastic stuff.
Ross that was hilarious! togs togs togs togs undies undies… hehe
I’m sure Igor Posner has a future as “an important photographic artist.” The intelligentsia will ooh and ah over the gritty honesty of his blury, fuzzy, grainy, dark images. Every photographer with a Leica will load up with some pushed 3200 film and try to produce the same “unique” images for a generation to come.
Come on, folks. It’s just depressing peering into his mind as expressed though these grindingly depressing photos. Does the photographer really see life this way? Do you folks really see life this way? Photographers seem to love this kind of stuff. The more depressing, the more fuzzy, the more contrasty, the more grainy and badly exposed the better. It’s become little more than a cliched device. Good grief.
Jim. I think the work is very good. Its certainly impressionism, but is that a crime now? Must we remain purists? As an interpretive piece, and with the music, it took me on a tour through the world as the artist wanted me to see it. It takes a lot of skill to get that many images working that well together at the extremes of exposure. You dont have to like it, but dont underestimate the skill it took to make. Its not just a bunch of grab shots thrown together with a bit of music.
John
I didn’t say it wasn’t skillful. I’ve seen incredibly skillfully done sand castles, too, but they are gone with the next wave.
This “look” is a device, a gimmick. And a common one. Even if skillfully applied.
Well said, John. I too was struck by the technical skill. I’ve got a special dislike for would-be art that attempts to inhabit that dark place and fails. I think Igor’s work gets it right.
And Jim, although I don’t see life like that anymore, I have seen it that way. It’s a grand old tradition for young people to be alienated from bourgeois society to wallow in existential angst. That feeling seeps from the stones of old Europe and many a young person has walked those streets and felt those feelings. They can also be accessed through the novels of Dostoevsky, Kafka and the like. I’d ask you Jim: have you never read and enjoyed that tradition in European literature? Granted, it’s not for everybody all the time, but one should be able to recognize its value.
On the other hand, and I haven’t quite worked out my thinking on this, there’s something a bit unsettling about seeing that kind of skill and creativity used to illustrate a 19th century novel. Is that all it is? I don’t think so, but the title says otherwise. As I said under the main essay, I’d like to see him come up with something more original. “Notes from the Underground” is already taken.
I’m not a fan of existential angst. Just because young people wallow in it doesn’t mean we should encourage it. Or that most folks want to see it.
Isn’t it funny that we all knew Bob B would love Igor’s essay and Jim P would hate it?
As for myself, Igor’s essay makes me reevaluate my own recent work and I must admit it comes up looking pretty shallow in comparison. I experienced such soul in Igor’s essay, not his personally as much as the soul of his city. It makes me want to find a subject that touches a deep nerve within myself, one that sets up a resonance with all that I have experienced in my life. I am indebted to Igor for making me dissatisfied with staying on the surface of things. It’s time to let down the anchor and dive deep.
Patricia
The problem, Patricia, is that what he has captured is his own warped view of the city. It doesn’t look like that, you know. He simply found the darkness that is everywhere and used technique to make it appear even more sinister. While his vision may contain some truth, this work is essentially a fiction. An art piece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg
Jim;
I respect your opinion but I’m often left wondering what you think we should shoot (and how).
A; Humanitarian stories in B&W= Done before, won’t make a difference.
B; Too arty, too grainy, too dark, too introspective, don’t shoot Walmart it’s boring, too much PS,
What would you rather people shoot? I have asked the question before but never received a reply. God forbid we end up shooting Photo.net kittens, dogs! :-)
Regarding “This “look” is a device, a gimmick. And a common one. Even if skillfully applied.”
Couldn’t you say the same about the “creamy bokeh” portrait shots that proliferate (& newspapers are the worst culprits)? This “look” is a device, a gimmick. And a common one that is often skilfully applied! :-)
When it comes down to tin tacks, every technique is a device, unless you want to shoot with a standard lens. Even then it is only an image from the photographer’s perspective.
Maybe my eyesight isn’t too hot but I have never seen a “creamy bokeh” in “real life”, just as much as I have never seen slow synch flash or ultra wide angle. Well maybe after too many beers but I don’t think that counts…. :-)
If I “see” real life in B&W then I will quickly visit the optician…..
Cheers!
I really liked the essay, and I’m certainly not an introverted teenager!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew0Hs7-hX6E
morning.. only -7 degrees today.. sunny outlook
yesyes
funny but i find perfection the cliche, with all the soul ripped right out of it, like perfect suburbs and housewives and neatly trimmed desperation …
… give me the imperfect squint eyed gritty down in the gutter fighting scratched clawed moments of true perception seen heard tasted smelled FELT from corner glimpses of a head quickly turned with no answers.
hi guys…
it is so hard to catch up with all this talk and already more than a few essays up… where i left off was the map.. that most beautiful birthday map of burn and the rest of the world. thanks lassal and haik!
and then this:
talk of all our imperfect lives being a perfected cliche.
i must say what is most catchy here on burn is DAH’s fortitude and acumen in writing these short essays that provoke mind and emotion and fuel inspiration. DAH i feel your loss and send you my love because nothing replaces a valued friendship (and yes it was more than that) and i always will dread the time when i say i wish i could have told him this and i wish i had more time.
where i have been has been more important than photography. ive been with my family so that i would not wish i had more time to tell them what ive always wanted to say. ive stayed away enough to recharge and get me back to where i left off.
so to all my special friends on burn, especially my night duty smithsonian guards: civi, katiecakes and panos, have a loaded blessed safe and healthy 2010!!
i think the best anyone can hope from a photographer is that they successfully convey their world in their way.. there are plenty of snappers photographing ¨everything¨ within the confines of certain choices and styles..
only so many notes on a piano and all that..
yet different tunes arise from different perspectives and igor has without question succeeded in taking us down his own road in a piece which is both biographical and impressionistic.. succeeded in realizing as closely as possible his minds eye.
personally i could not care less whether someone chooses to play pop, jazz, ragga or dubstep..
i´m certain none of the styles in themselves are ´cliche´, and i don´t think a particular style of photography can be called cliche either… individual works can fail.. certain contexts can smell of ripe cheese.. yet not a whole movement in photography.
that´s just ridicules.
.. and again..
who of us has the foresight to say what will fall into the sea like castles made of sand?
i can here your voice echo in the guilded halls of the past jim..
¨that mozart will go no where.. far too ¨poppy¨.. and beethoven must lighten up – such cliched darkness.¨
welcome back gracie :)
happy, happy new year – hoping we will be able to click your name and see some snaps sooon..
:ø)
Jim, I think he’s tapping into it’s history. and the darker history of Russia and the U.S.S.R…
just read this – a snipit from that link you kindly provided “The city was built by conscripted serfs from all over Russia and also by Swedish prisoners of war.” Just tell me that isn’t a dark gritty story.
Patricia, I know exactly what you mean! I had worked on a project a few months ago – This is what I envisioned. I was going to try to create my own story of totalitarian society drawn off of such books as A Clockwork Orange, Fahrenheit 451, The Giver, and films like Metropolis, Equilibrium and other sources… I ran into problems finding actors and locations. I will revisit the idea another time after some more research.
Ok guys, I rethink everything and I agree with Jim!
Did you see pictures on Corbis website?
Wow!
There is a thousands photos of food full of colors, bright, just shiny! Food, cars, houses, streets, offices.
And I found many pictures of families.
Wow!
How happy they are! They mostly white, blond, pretty, almost always smiling, embrace, they love each other!
Have you seen they houses?
Wow!
Full of light, clean, mostly white and big!
And this children?
Wow, wow, wow!
I want two of this little white blond smiling angles!
I want live in world of photographers from Corbis!
And I will.
I will take only bright full of colors, correctly exposed pictures of young pretty people and their pretty children playing on green juicy grass in park.
I feel convert!!
Alleluia!!
Fallow me!!
I will save you all!
Let hold my hand I will take you to the better place!
Good exposed place!
Alleluia!!!
New world is coming!
Who is with me!
ok… exhausted for now!
but the better me will back!
peace and love for everyone!
MARCIN,
are you ok??? Why you don’t sit down and have a drink or something…
CORBIS or no Corbis …there will be always one…hihihii:)))
Ah…MARCIN…
PEACE, LOVE and PHOTOGRAPHY !!!
ahhhhh…where have you been …my darling lost one…???
MyGRACIE…thank you …we were talking about you with KATIEEEEEE, the Street Fighter…
She told me to kiss you and Hug you like there is no tomorrow…
and yes we talked about …families…THE FAMILIES …and
YES, BURN is our BIG koukou Family …where the “truth” is always somewhere in the middle…
and there is no truth …DAVIDB…don’t click my name…you will get only silents …:)))
P.S Did I say I love u ???
Civi,
I’m fine, just teasing.
All,
Must say I am with Jim but only if we talking about press photography. I see everywhere young pj photographers who try to take pictures like from Berman’s films. Shiny day? No, dark hell…
Press photography should be without manipulation and what is the different between coled rockets or making bright day to night?
But this is my opinion.
And of course I am not PJ so I can do whatever I want :)
so everything is dark :)
patricia, David bowen. isnt it fantstic though when you see some work that makes you go “SHIT, now I have to really raise my game”. Isnt that how we grow as artists?
I dont know about the rest of you but to me its a constant competition, against all of you but mainly against my owm limitations. Its not, I feel, a popular stance in photography circles but then who does photography to be popular? Or to fit into a circle?
john
Yes, JOHN …everything is dark …when someone does photography just to fit into a circle or to be popular!!!
What not to be proud of you !!!
constant competition …BURNing like a Rio girl in a HOT undies…
MARCIN… you such a teaser…:)))
JIM …I am always a fan …
2010 …looks very promising…even with one leg…right THOMAS???!!!
I am gonna call MR.HARVEY… the TWEETY DAH…
P.S Oime …Did I say I LOVE you today ???
Well, one thing is for certain, channelling the darkest side of 19th century Russia will get you accolades from Burn photographers.
DAVIN…
i have always invited you to my loft…yes, bring Aga….if i am not there, you may stay..the Burn Hotel is available by special requests…i will be on a very heavy shooting schedule all through the spring and summer…first with Rio, then with a personal story on the Outer Banks (opposite of Rio) and my American family work…Rio is an assignment now for Natgeo, but surely i will continue beyond and do a book i think…i could change my mind on this, but a Rio book just seems like a natural for me…i love the name…RIO…can just see it in type…bold..
cheers, david
Hi everyone…. First breakfast in Thailand:
http://www.pbase.com/uc/image/120903763/original
(I think I screwed big with the PS color edit, but these are this morning papers, fer sure!)
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
every tourist with a point and shoot has probably photographed everything there is on the planet…should that keep me from taking a look myself? however, there sure as hell are no tourists with point and shoots in the neighborhoods where i am working..i cannot even imagine it…please send me a link to these tourist photos you have seen of guns, drugs, in the favelas
the main this is this…i am giving you a day by day diary of my working schedule, my thinking at the moment etc ..i reserve the right to change my mind, change my plan, have no plan, etc etc…you have seen nothing of my final results or final thinking process…i have just been working exactly one week..one week for me is nothing….just a chance to get my feet just a bit wet….my work always takes time…watching one slice of it, may not at all represent the whole..
one thing i do notice on the net is that everyone immediately jumps to some kind of conclusion based on a piece of the process…as if a piece was IT….whatever i am doing in Rio with not be resolved for a year….in any case, i hope you will sit back , relax, enjoy the process, and reserve judgments for judgment day which is when the book comes off the press….
cheers,david
Jim:
really, you have to look wider in your photographic resources…
Igor is a friend, a dear friend, but even if he were not i would appreciate his work. I spent alot of time talking with igor long ago and shit, i remember when he was making ‘non-igor’ pictures with a digi camera. he did his homework. he asked me how i made my pics look the way they do (with trix and rodinal and certain other things), he asked me about my photographic philsophy and he looked looked looked at other’s work. of course he studied frank and peterson and moriyama and d’agata and ackerman…in fact, he ended up meeting michael and many of his early pictures are almost exact replica’s of michaels, unfortunately…but he was searching for his voice. as i told him years ago, ‘style’ is not Owned BY ANYONE…not his style not michael’s style not antoine’s style…
if u look at ackerman’s Fiction, is was all there before, the style, the mood, the light, the grain…but…before ackerman there were others…my fear for Igor, as i ahve told him before, is that he needs to get away from Michael’s shadow and make his own story, his own pictures….and to me, Petersburg has done this….igor is a very very sensitive man and a thoughtful man…
photography comes from the soul, the heart, the head….pictures come from a camera….
it has been a pleasure to see Igor develop into a thoughtful and soulful photographer…
and by the way, i didnt like Notes from Underground only because it was done by a friend or because it was looks like my style of photography but because it is beautiful and thoughtful and, above all, has a voice….
here’s the work of michael to help out your historical perspective
http://www.agencevu.com/photographers/photographer.php?id=1
cheers
bob
Well, one thing is for certain, channelling the darkest side of 19th century Russia will get you accolades from Burn photographers.
No, it has to be channeled convincingly. And unless I missed something, Igor’s essay wasn’t presented as photojournalism. Fiction is not a bad thing in and of itself. There are more things in heaven and earth, Jim, than are dreamt of in your photojournalism.
David, I was wondering if you found much, if any, religious element among the criminals in the Favelas. An interesting part of the Vargas Llosa novel concerns Brazilian criminals’ odd relationship with religion. And conversely, religion’s odd relationship with them
Ha, I guess we were writing at the same time. Sorry David, I thought it was obvious I was joking about the tourists. As a general rule, if something I write is so jaw-dropping ludicrous, it’s most likely some poor attempt at a joke (though not always, alas). Point was that the oft-photographed beach is the last thing I’m interested in seeing in photography from Rio (religious processions excepted). Not that you shouldn’t shoot it if you like, just sayin that I find the Favela work far more compelling.
I wasn’t joking about the horses though. I’ve noticed you seem to have an affinity for them and have produced some of the best photographs of them that I have ever seen. Is that a story element you look for in all your shoots or does it just come about naturally?
regards, michael
Re-reading your last comment, which was apparently addressed to me… I want to stress that I have no negative criticism of anything you are doing. I offer no advice. I have jumped to no conclusions. I am nothing but grateful for what you are doing. I can see how comments and questions from the peanut gallery might dissuade you from this kind of openness in the futre, so I will happily do as you suggest. sit back and enjoy the process. This is an incredible learning experience and I can’t adequately express how much I appreciate it.
mw
BOB…
well reasoned comment to Jim…thanks…we share a broad view of appreciation and eclectic styles etc…i have never understood why artists of one style may reject the work of others doing something different…or why some may be so set on a particular set of standards, that may indeed be applicable to the press, and yet apply those standards to EVERYTHING…in any case, your suggestions for Jim, and perhaps others, have great merit…by the way, i am a big Ackerman fan…
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
even if you were being critical , i would not mind…i come from a world of very tough critique and use tough critique with my students and my colleagues….i did not realize you were joking, but perhaps i would have if i was not reading so quickly..again, the foibles of the net and this medium…i was even thinking later that if a visitor to Rio thought they could just run up to the favelas and shoot these drug dealers, then great harm could come to them….so my caption for this work is the old “do not attempt this stunt at home”…in any case, i always enjoy your comments here and please feel free to question anything that i do…i question myself all the time!! if i write a rejoinder , it is simply intended as part of the discussion, and your comments are never considered affront…
cheers, david
……….all part of the general paranoia on the net http://www.iamparanoid.net/
john:
“I dont know about the rest of you but to me its a constant competition, against all of you but mainly against my owm limitations.”
Yes, most definitely, and more than against others (this just serves to push), much much more against myself.. expanding vision constantly, in every direction possible..
David :))
indeed…i’ve never understood how/why other photographers pigeon-hole themselves. i mean, interesting photography just speaks so personally to me and it doesnt matter the style/story, camera, philosophy. I mean Sally Mann’s “Proud Flesh” is just devastating and so is Goldberg’s “Open See” and so is Monica Haller’s book on Iraq and Rob Hornstra’s book and even Verst’s (marina’s) and ‘ordinary things’ (mine) (both still waiting for a publisher ;))))) )…the thing is that great work, no matter the genre.approach.philosophy.style.country is just so inspiring…alec s has it right…and one of the most (for me) beautiful things y ou’ve ever said (here at burn) was when u wrote that everytime you see work you like, no matter what, it’s like seeing photography for the first time…me too….anyway, stay safe, especially in the favella…and on your return trip, maybe you and miriam can meet….she;ll be both a good subject and give you access to both those words (favella and aristrocracy), though i know you’ve got that already….stay safe!
igor was inspired by michael (who by the way is a great human being as well) and michael was inspired by Jem (cohen) and peterson and frank and literature….i mean imagine the day when Vu had ‘D’agata and Ackerman and Pin-fat and Blekinsop….and with time, almost the Blacks, but then everything changed….
running
b
ahhh…”the foibles of the net and this medium…” how well we all know…
how many times…even my civilian comments …have been lost in translation…
but …I promise…when you will drink from my homemade pomegranate juice…
everything will be all right …(I just want to see reactions…)
VIVA !!!
All,
I put three photos together : http://marcinluczkowski.com/photonews/levels.jpg
1. how world looks when I took this picture.
2. how world looks in my mind (should looks more dark just like Armageddon but I don’t know how do it with this picture)
3. How this picture should looks if I could change it and my mood right now.
I am glad that we have a free will and we can do pictures like we wish.
the diversity enrich of the evolution.
Alleluia
DAH,
if you read this, pls contact me via Skype … I have a contact in Rio for you whom you might find interesting – if you two get along, he can open you a lot of doors. But maybe that is now a little too tight timewise? Just let me know.
As to horses … there is the Joquei Clube (Hipódromo da Gávea), where they do horse races and betting … It is right next to the Jardim Botânico :)
Bob
thank you for articulating some of what I was feeling; I have not left a comment under underground tho I have watched it 3 times and will return, and I anticipate his coming work…I feel the sensitivity that you speak of and I am struggling to phrase my reaction to the work in a way that honors that sensitivity…the Ackerman aspect was disturbing me as much as it excited, and I find in underground some pure sourced excellence and I see certain images that are pitch perfect (such paintings to study!) and I feel the original voice in many, but there are parts of the piece I wish would break away or anchor more into the core of Igor…but I am watching the snow fall now and mostly I am reminded that we are family, backwards in time family but also now, laterally, and as much as I resonate with john g’s sentiment of a personal need to excel, I also feel a tremendous comfort both in Igor’s achievement which is real and great, and in his struggle to fully realize his personal vision and not independent from the lineage but in addition to it. It is unfair of me to want Igor to be complete in mastery -right now- but I find I always seek the same from those for whom it is possible.
john..
bang on.. who does this to be popular or ^fit in^.. if anything it makes one something of an outcast by nature.
what i like about work such and igor and our bob produces is that it forces me to, as you say, adjustr my perception.. i´m not about to run out and begin photographing in a different way – i can only work the way i enjoy working and i have never wanted to be anyone else..
it makes me look at what i shoot in a broader way.. view past work with fresh eyes.. and of course it inspires us to work on.
i understand what you mean about internal competition.. and a little of the disappointment we all feel, which dah expressed recently and which i chated with another friend about only a few days ago..
if we´re really working critically for ourselves i´m not certain satisfaction is the result.. there is always a nagging doubt.. always a nervous anticipation of looking at the films and then always a slight sinnking feeling when the last snap of the last roll has been seen.
personally – i hope this competition with myself never ends, and from talking with and reading you regarding your work, and many others here regarding theirs, that this is a common belief..
And what do you think about photography WITHOUT the real world?
Soon what is real will be not as sure as before.
where the imagination is start and the real world is end?
What is real and what isn’t? And, does it really matter?
agree Jim :)
David – Thank you again for doing this! I love the updates – It answers questions I’ve had with the kind of stories you work with. thank you!
And when you’re all done I look forward to talking to you about school.
Please be safe with those guns! I don’t remember you telling us anything about handling one during the Living Proof book.
Lets also talk about possibly running a Burn show here… I live right above a Gallery and I know the owner quite well.
WARNING BRITAIN:::
as my mate al says – no one drop anything.. it looks like the country might shatter into a million peaces..
with love from -7 in norskwayland
d
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8447023.stm
Erica :)))
no need to worry. igor IS STILL GROWING…he’s a really intelligent and thoughtful and kind person…it is true that much of his visual vocabulary is defined but what michael has achieved over the last 15 years…and as i try to tell him often (in private emails) the key for Igor will be to find his own voice, his own visual vocabulary…because it does rest soooooo mucgh on michael’s vision, including shooting similar places and in similar manner, but petersburg hyas some amazing photographs and igor is friends with michael now and michael is so big-hearted that he isn’t threatened…just as i wasnt threatened when igor asked me long long ago about technical questions on film, development, relationship, reason…we ALL SHARE THE SAME idea, in truth, all photographers, like family, are simply searching fo a way to tell the story inside the bubble of our hearts…as igor develops a fully posner way, he’ll cut himself loose…the key for igor will be when he doesn’t worry about making his pictures look a certain way but in stead, shooting how he sees the world…and petersburg gets closer to that than any of his earlier work in LA or Tijuana or Italy which was basic replications of michael and antoine…but he is one of the most sensitive, kind thought people i know…and maybe if people love igorn’s story (i do hope so), they will also discover the visionary that lead the way, that was Michael…and before michael the films of Jem and Adam cohen, the work of Teru (who fell in love with photography by meeting/befriending michael)…etc…
then they;’ll find Oli (pin-fat)’s work and maki and jukka onella and idalina etc etc…my role here, i hope, always has been both as a supporter and lver of phtoography, but i hope as a way to offer a wider swallowing :)))…to back up what david shows…:))
but, you should never be worried about expressing your reservations about the work…
nor being afraid to say that Michael was the original, full stop…and still rhymes beautifully..
we’re all in this world as a family together…it all fits together :))
hugs, running
b
b
DAVID BOWEN.
Greetings from this fragile coil called Britain, apart from the constant threat of the land exploding into a thousand pieces, we are having a great time, the kids off school, trying to find a hill in Norfolk to sledge down has been a bit troublesome. An extended christmas.
Normal for Norfolk -5 to -8
Ian
3. How this picture should looks if I could change it and my mood right now.
—————————-
Couldn’t agree more Marcin.
Herve
Yes I do like green eggs and ham
Bob,
probably I missed something in the earlier posts. Which Michael are you refering to?
Akaky,
thank you for the hint to Dostoevski’s crime and punishment!
Lee Guthrie,
yes, Russia can be scary and I am not sure if I would want to live there, but it is a great country with great people. If you ever have a slight chance of going there. Please go. Igor’s view is just one view. Valid, but just one view. Russia is big and it looks totally different in summertime. Can’t wait to get back… Oh boy, better not think of all the Vodka again… I have to find a good excuse for not drinking…
Best
Reimar
Reimar:
http://www.agencevu.com/photographers/photographer.php?id=1
Ackerman.. Michael that is.. if you can get a hold of ‘Endtime City’ or ‘Fiction’..
Yes I do like green eggs and ham
—————————–
:-))))
Came out even worse than I thought….
I really have no idea if the favelas are part of the new trend of tourism, called slum tourism. Ie. local agency/tour guides taking people to slums and garbage dumps, in group.
Maybe that is why Michael was hinting about.
Gosh, 2h50 am, been going on since 9am this morning, shot quite a lot last night, and still not a trace of jet lag… Too much aDAHrenaline? :-))))
Nope Herve, if you are referring to this Michael, it was a joke and nothing but a joke.
BURNIANS…look what I found in the facebook…
other BURNIANS …ROSA VERHOEVE and LAURA EL-TANTAWY…have posted…
http://www.theaftermathproject.org/
one lady SARA TERRY needs help…
and please don’t forget to help …our kibbutz too…
BURNIANS …just a small help …can be a big one…if we all can do it…
Because at the end … WE ARE ONE…!!!
goodnight from civi
Eva,
thank you for the link. I never heared of Michael Ackermann. Strong work and I see the connection to the current essay by Igor.
To find a new vison that is absolutely unique – very difficult – almost impossible. No idea who is walking in whose footsteps. It doen’t really matter to me. Glad to discover Michael’s and Igor’s approach to photography!
Just the other day I came across a nice book by Richard Renaldi which is called “Figure and Ground”. This is something that fascinates me and I like his way of taking pictures.
We all have our little influences here and there and we can only hope that we come up with something that we can truly call a personal vision…
Guess I am far from it, but I am on my way which is the most important thing.
Heavy snow in Europe. Drive and walk safely!
Reimar
DAH:
What is evident from your tweets and from your posts here is the lengths you go to on an assignment/project–your passion and obsession comes through!!!
Best,
Davin
I live here in the center of Bucharest, I mean really in the center, and yet I hear a rooster at all hours of the day, not more than 100 meters from my apartment. . . Romanians tell me that during Communism recently relocated peasants often kept farm animals in apartments. . .
On “not making anyone lose face”…
I totally agree with you on this David and I will have to disagree with you John saying that “Some people deserve to lose face and be compromised.”
Who would deserve that ? To which end and for what purpose ?
Ok, a “victim” could feel avenged and better after making somebody lose face but that would not help by any mean to durably solve a situation.
This does not mean that you wouldn’t tell somebody that you disagree on something. But making somebody lose face doesn’t help in the end.
On this problem one can read Hannah Arendt’s analysis on judging the Nazis.. fascinating !
Sorry for jumping on this a bit late and out of context but it struck a chord.
Thanks David for taking the time to write about your experiences on the field. So great to read about concrete things !
Hugs
Pierre Yves:
It is not about “feeling better”. It is about the arrogant being less arrogant.
DAH
I am worried about these guns..the company you’re keeping..yikes..you ARE made of flesh and blood, whether you know it or not. damn…you really know how to stress a woman out..but guess that’s not news to you..
Civi
This man needs a Novena. Or two. And i’m not even religious. Trying to remember my Hail Mary, Holy Mary’s. DAH needs all the protection he can get.
yes, i got your e-mail..very upbeat..cheery..thank you, thank you..i just got back to CR..both kids there to greet me. I can’t tell you how special that was!
goodnight all..including DAH’s guardian angel. And that’s not a joke. sheesh, man.
Best
Kathleen
GOODMORNING BURNIANSSSSSSSSSS
hmmmm…where is our tweety ???
KATIEEE …you rock my lady…and yes, MR.HARVEY needs protection…hmmm…I don’t know which one…
he definitely needs something…
BUT BUT BUT
he is a true BURNIAN …that means …he has brain …so,all he needs is a rooster and 2 eggs,
sunny side up …everything Organic…
P.S making coffee…
BURN PHOTO FACES,
keep rocking …keep shooting…keep donating…keep having intercourse …
keep dreaming…keep working hard…keep it up…even keep loosing face…
I see no problem with that …cause after I have to re-invent myself…
okkk…I know …coffeeeeeeee time…
Referring to what Herve (hope he survived the green food!) was writing about:
“I really have no idea if the favelas are part of the new trend of tourism, called slum tourism. Ie. local agency/tour guides taking people to slums and garbage dumps, in group.”
and even if what Michael Webster wrote before, kicking off Herve’s response, was only a joke, reading postings by pro’s like this one:
http://pistolesiphoto.blogspot.com/2009/12/ethic-aesthetic.html
and the comments of DAH about security and safety leave me wonder, and ponder… ethics and the respect towards those in front of the lens..
joseph colligan..
sneeking in a post there quietly, eh?
really enjoyed your by night photos..
http://www.josephcolligan.com
EVA
Thank you for bringing up the subject of ethics regarding our life as photographers, especially those of us who work professionally as photojournalists. Andrea Pistolesi brings up important questions, questions that are raised every so often here on Burn and on Road Trips before this.
Intent is the unspoken, often unacknowledged force behind everything we do, not just as photographers but as human beings. It is the “elephant in the room” that determines how we work and how our photos are perceived by others. All too often we have failed to examine our intent, the WHY of our essays and individual photos, while we focus exclusively on the WHO, WHAT, WHERE and HOW of accomplishing our work.
Why have we chosen this subject and why are we pursuing it in the particular ways we are? Are we thinking of the end product more than the ethics of how we get there? Do we see a benefit coming to the people who live the lives we are photographing, or are we simply taken with the drama and chance to take great photos? Each of us individually has to answer to ourselves because the world is often looking for the most dramatic image we can give them.
Again, thank you, Eva, for introducing this subject for discussion. It is always important to look at why we do what we do.
Patricia
Patricia:
yes, the ever recourring ‘question’: it’s all about me.. which, in my eyes, is wrong, and that’s not limited to photography only.
Another interesting read here:
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/moral-problem
It’s also easy to jump to conclusions, really hard to judge without knowing personally anybody.. I guess you’re right, it’s up to ourselves to look within ourselves, first and foremost.
The corollary, and this is what bothers me most, is representing people and places as they exist within our own heads (or hearts), not as they really exist. The current essay, as I have noted, is a dark representation of a Russia past. Taken alone, it gives the impression that St. Petersburg is a dark, depressing, angry place filled with prostitutes, drug addicts and alcoholics. Danger lurks around every dark, fuzzy, grainy corner.
For this fiction he has created, he has received extensive accolades here. And while he has become very experienced and skilled at making what he points his camera at dark and ominous, in the end he has created a fiction, a misrepresentation of reality. We find out little about the real city, and too much about the the real photographer.
As for David and his tweets, I continue to be concerned that they could easily make him a target in the real place he is in now. A dangerous experiment in my opinion.
but jim….
isn’t that ok?
Its his story to tell,
clearly your story on the same city would be different….
Igor did an amazing job telling his story….
why do you insist on all story telling to be the same?
to follow the same formula?
curious……
:)
Jim, photography IS fiction. If you are not interested in a photographer’s subjective take on a subject, you might as well tap security-camera footage to see what a place really looks like. You seem to believe that there is a Platonic ideal to be photographed, not the shadows on the wall of the cave. St. Petersburg, like any other city, has its darkness. No one, not even Igor, is saying that St. Petersburg is merely a place of grainy drug addicts. Fiction is not a misrepresentation of reality. Haven’t you read a novel?
Jim Powers,
“Fiction” seems to be a pejorative, even damning label to you… I don’t understand why. Did I miss something? Who has represented that Igor’s work is supposed to be journalism or ‘non-fiction’?
To extend your argument even a little bit into the realm of the written word would mean to condemn Edgar Allen Poe, Mary Shelley, Honore de Balzac, Dostoevsky, Franz Kafka, and any number of other venerated authors who have enriched our imaginations and our culture with their ‘fictions’ that did not necessarily ‘accurately’ reflect the world they lived in but rather chose to select and amplify certain aspects of those worlds. One thing that surprises me about your argument for accuracy of representation is that it starts to sound a bit like a PC approach to reality… in order to ‘accurately’ depict America, for example, should we include 25% Hispanics, 20% Blacks, 8% Asians, and 1% Native Americans in every crowd scene so that it ‘reflects’ the ‘reality’ of American society?
On one level I am actually somewhat sympathetic to your argument. I was an academic geographer for many years, and my earliest interest in photography was as a tool for depicting, describing, recording, and transmitting information about places… both in a physical and a cultural sense. I.e., ‘non-fiction’. So I was quite conscious of the problem of images that could be deceptively selective, overly glamorized, or overly seedy, in ‘representing’ the total mosaic experience of an area. As you can imagine, this gave me a love-hate relationship with National Geographic, for example, which all too often in decades past made many places both too exotic and too glamorous… on the other hand, it was one of the few journalistic publications in the English language that made even an attempt at depicting the wider world as it is.
Because of that background, and a continuing interest in that problem even as my photographic tastes and pursuits have broadened to include many types of ‘fiction’ as well as ‘non-fiction’, I am still personally resistant to the idea of being an ‘art’ photographer, and I am usually more interested in depicting subjects in a more-or-less straightforward and un-stylized way. DAH and I have had arguments about this… his position is rather different than mine. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but I think he’s probably more sympathetic to the idea that there is no such thing as an ‘objective’ view anyway, that even journalism and ‘non-ficiton’ are highly individualistic and fragmentary views, and that fiction is often the best way to convey the truth about a place or an event. As for me, I still believe there’s such a thing as good ‘non-fiction’ in the photography of places and people. But it doesn’t negate for me the enjoyment and appreciation of many types of ‘fiction’ as well. There’s plenty of art photogrpahy that I don’t respond to positively or even at all… sometimes, I even actively dislike photo work I see. I probably only like about half, or even less, of what gets published on BURN, but my list of what I do like might surprise someone who was looking for any kind of ideological consistency.
Naturally all viewers, readers, and commenters here are entitled to their opinions, and I’m not going to tell you that you should like Igor’s work, or anyone else’s for that matter. What bothers me is that you seem to have defined for yourself (rather rigidly, I must say) one area of photography that you DO like, and feel this driving need to condemn all the other kinds of photography that appear here that don’t fit into your criteria. Like you, I might wish for more ‘non-fictional’ young photographers, or maybe a different kind of fiction… more like Tolstoy, less like Gogol or Dostoevsky or Poe… but as one of the ‘tribal elders’ here on BURN (I think at 63 I have a couple of years on you, yes?) I feel a responsibility to tell you, that after age 50 or so one’s primary responsibility is to grow old gracefully and not turn into a bitter curmudgeon… for your own good more than anybody else’s. You’ll only make yourself angry if you condemn fiction for not being journalism. Save your vitriol for the distortions and lies that appear under the guise of journalism.
Every point of view is exactly a point of view. A photojournalist pointing his camera at a car accident is making fiction as much as Igor is making fiction with his russian story. They are both telling their understanding of their stories. By choosing what to photograph is to depart from reality as there are infinite realities of a car accident, not just the scraped car, the guy in the ambulance, etc., etc., etc. Really, this debate is sterile.
Its all in the delclaration of intent.
this is an unaltered documentary record of the event vs this is an attempt to show how ‘I’ experienced the event.
One ‘attempts’ to be objective, the other is unashamedly subjective.
as long as its clearly indicated which is which there should be no errors trying to judge one using the ‘values’ of the other…………………except that there always are :)
Ackerman’s recent new work in color is interesting because it doesn’t have the same poetry for me as his work in black and white and i’m not sure why … the technique works in one but not in the other perhaps, and certainly the contrast is lost, or it doesn’t go far enough, not sure?
DAH, I am back here!
The polish photographer (from Davin’s post) is me of course! :-)Thank you for invitation!
Would be great to see you again.
We (me and Davin) are planing to make a trip to USA in summer… your loft is in our plan! :-)
Hugs,
Aga
Has anyone had contact with Panos during the last days?
Is he back in Athens?
There might be something interesting going on:
http://twitter.com/BreakingNews/statuses/7564775048
“Bomb explodes outside Greece’s parliament in central Athens, causing no injuries, police say – AP”
Well, Sidney, I’m 59, so we’re pretty close to the same age.
Honestly, I’m likely just tilting with windmills, because I think photography has already strayed so far afield that it is primarily only of interest in any serious way to other photographers. To most of the rest of the world, it’s just eye candy.
Photography has become so self referential as to have made itself irrelevant. Show me the stuff that you point the camera at as it is. Don’t filter it through the existential darkness in your own head.
Eva;
Don’t you think Mr Pistolesi is a being a bit precious talking about beautifully composed images etc when his own work is exactly that? Beautifully composed but lacking any soul or emotion. Beautiful travel stock photography… just my 2c…
Cheers
Jim;
I often equate photography with music; another medium where you must find a voice to rise above the mundane, the copycats and the commercial dross. Look how many innovative variants there are for a simple 3 chord progression!
I can tap my foot to a catchy pop song (equate with light fluffy photo piece) but it doesn’t mean I’m going to rush out and buy the CD. Whereas I probably will (and do) buy something from a band/singer with a strong personal stamp (equate Larry Towell, Sylvia Plachy, DAH, Bill Allard for photography). None of whom hesitate to put their personal stamp on their work.
As an aside regarding; “Don’t filter it through the existential darkness in your own head”; we would have no Leonard Cohen songs if we applied that to music! In my opinion that would be a huge loss, so why apply it to photography? I’m not saying you must like Cohen though, just that it’s valid music.
I feel that Igor’s work does show a distinctive style; and like all photography it’s just his personal view of the world. Imagine how dull and boring the world would be if we all produced similar looking work; ala Corbis/Getty stock images, typical newspapers…. Yet that work has its place too; disposable, fluff etc (e.g. some pop music!)
Not that I feel that everyone should “love” every photographic work, God forbid that ever happen; otherwise we get into the “Emperors New Clothes” syndrome.
“photography has already strayed so far afield that it is primarily only of interest in any serious way to other photographers”
Again I feel that we underestimate people’s intelligence. If you expose the general public to a wide range of work it tends to widen their view too.
Take my mum for example; 78 years old; and Nat Geo was the extent of her photographic cutting edge. She often looks at the new books I buy; she really enjoyed Sylvia Plachy’s “Self Portrait with Cows Going Home”, hardly mainstream photography. It’s quite a dark book and I’m sure it has been filtered through the existential darkness of Plachy’s head! :-)
Cheers
Ross:
I don’t know Pistolesi’s work enough, nor him, nor his intentions, to be able to give a judgement. I do think his posting/question is a valid one though.
What now and then goes through my mind is: is there’s any difference in ethics, I mean, is there’s a right to be a difference if we’re shooting for a personal project vs. an assigned (paid) one… kinda hard to explain and it’s getting too late over here to think straight..
Eva; “I do think his posting/question is a valid one though”
Yes definately!! I wasn’t having a dig at you :-) It’s just that I loooked at his website and saw mostly travel type images.
Cheers :-)
Ross, no problem, for what I know (not enough), you could very well be right with what you write, I really know very little about his work and even less about the intention behind. Night ;)
it is the first burn made match, isn’t it? Aga and Davin?
photography has already strayed so far afield that it is primarily only of interest in any serious way to other photographers
Jim says that as if it were a bad thing. Hasn’t he noticed? Everyone’s a photographer these days. The problem lies elsewhere.
It looks like I have been missing a good, lively, and varied discussion here. Boy, I want to join in, but I wonder how people find the time to keep up with all this? Especially DAH. I saw your protest that you don’t have time to read all the comments, but it almost looks like you do.
If by chance you are reading this, you mention an online journal that you are keeping as you work your latest project. I went back as far as I could afford to go searching for the address, but I could not find it and it is not on “your work in progress” pages, which seems to have fallen by the wayside since you started Burn.
If I understood that post correctly and if you read this, could you supply the address?
Thank you
Yep it sure has strayed and turned on it’s head http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
and Jim not only photography that is stuffed http://www.artouko.com/im.htm
Jim – I see you are doing an excellent job at playing your usual role in which you define photography through the most narrow lens possible, denounce everything else and then get folks all stirred up.
I recognize the bait, but, like a really smart trout, this time, I will not bite that bait.
I refuse to rise to bite your bait.
You will not get a rise out of me.
I will just ignore it and move on.
Absolutely – I will move on with no comment: you will not get a rise out of me….
I will not bite!
No, no, no, no!
I am totally unphased. Your Igor statements dangle before me but I turn away from the enticement.
I will not bite at all.
You will not get a rise out me..
No…
No rise…
Not at all…
No rise…
Do you understand?
No rise…
Must I say it again?
No. I won’t.
I refuse.
That would be to rise and
You will not get a rise out of me…
Instead, I will go to the ITT store and pick up my new iPhone.
I can take pictures with the iPhone, you know.
And I will…
but you won’t get a rise out of me!
Not this time!
No, no, no….!
Thank you for adding life to my day…
but I will not bite!
And yet… and yet…
What if you are right?
No! I will not bite!
Jim Powers wrote – Well, Sidney, I’m 59, so we’re pretty close to the same age.
Honestly, I’m likely just tilting with windmills, because I think photography has already strayed so far afield that it is primarily only of interest in any serious way to other photographers. To most of the rest of the world, it’s just eye candy.
Photography has become so self referential as to have made itself irrelevant. Show me the stuff that you point the camera at as it is. Don’t filter it through the existential darkness in your own head.”
Jim I think you’ve got a single idea in mind and it’s preventing you from being open…
Your mind is stuck on Photojournalism as a tool. A tool only to show the world as it is. – That is what photojournalism and documentary is in its purest form, so there is nothing wrong with that idea. But to think that photojournalism is the ONLY form of photography is silly.
Photography is an art form. Photographers for years have been trying to get it that recognition. The problem is, many people use it as a tool only and forget that the images created can speak to an audience if placed in front of the right people. The photography that Igor presented here is not a pure documentary. it’s more that a collection. Its a work of art in a loose essay format. All of his images are consist, and work very well together to make a single piece. They all share the same color pallet, “line” quality, and subject.
Take a look at these “classic” creations. They’re all art and they’re all highly recognized as such –
Starry Night by Van Gogh,
an untitled chair sculpture by Tom Friedman – http://artcritical.com/mokhtar/AMEight.htm
paintings by Mondrian
The Mona Lisa…
All of these are different from the other in every possibly way. and yet they’re all forms of art. a painter doesn’t discredit a sculptor because he/she doesn’t use paint.
The basis of art is to SAY something with your work. Art is never just made… it has purpose, meaning whether literal or implied. Art doesn’t say the same thing to everyone who views it. \
Here are some really great photographers to look into and expand your view about what photography can do as an art.
Cindy Sherman – Feminism site: cindysherman.com
Jerry Uelsmann – altered/morphed imagery, all done in a dark room. site: uelsmann.net
Maggie Taylor – altered/morphed imagry – digitally (Jerry’s wife.) site: maggietaylor.com
Sam Davis – SciFi space exploration site: samdavisart.com
William Eggleston – life right now site: egglestontrust.com
Francesca Woodman
Diane Arbus
Jim
I too often tire of seeing work that is filtered through “the existential darkness”. Too often it is pretentiouis and ulitimately boring. I was quite prepared to hate Igors essay at first glance just based on the technique. However it quickly won me over.
I don’t really think there is such a thing as an unfiltered image. The photographs in your newspaper are heavily filtered to represent a particular take on how the world works.
My own work is heavily filtered through rose colored glasses, a deliberate choice, and a direct opposite to the kind of world Igor portrays. It’s not that I never experience “existential darkness”, I’ve got plenty of things to be depressed about, I just chose not to dwell there.
Lastly, we all view others photgraphs through our own set of filters. The filters of age, of political and spiritual bend, world view, gender, race, history, phsycological state, education, etc. etc.
One of the things I love most about BURN is the variety, and caliber of work presented here. It has expanded my thinking and my appreciation of this wonderful art.
We’ll never resolve this among posters on Burn. Other than Civi, there are no regular posters here who are not photographers. Why is that? This is a Luci Award winning online photography magazine. Who reads and engages in discussion here? Photographers. There is really no way of knowing if any significant number of viewers who don’t comment here are non-photographers.
I believe that few who are not photographers actually care about photography anymore. They are bombarded with photography, but it is only background noise. And I think some of the reason is that we are creating art that is inaccessible, incomprehensible, so self referential to be irrelevant. Does that leave only boring, natgeo stuff that folks will look at? Maybe it does. Maybe we’re only talking to ourselves.
………we have been talking to ourselves for a while maybe not as long and intensly as the fine art world, but as photo people we sure are catching up
Jim.
Look at the top left corner of this site and read what it says… and then read the name again.
Top right sorry :)
Okay, Jim – I will bite one more time.
This statement of yours,
“Does that leave only boring, natgeo stuff that folks will look at?”
says a great deal and explains many things – but not what you mean it to say.
John,
I understand what you mean but I’m afraid that by answering with violence (making sbdy lose face being violent), you don’t make him/her less arrogant in the end..
“Word came back today that I had to stay out of the favela. Perhaps temporary, perhaps not.Top drug lord not happy suddenly with my presence.”
David, please take this very seriously. I’m sorry but Christian Poveda comes strongly to mind. These kind of folks don’t talk out their frustrations, they act on them. And they’ve already shown you the tools they use. Don’t you return home on the 10th anyway? If so, it sounds like your Guardian Angel (as Kathleen refers to “him”) is working overtime to keep you safe…
hugs
Patricia
I took the NatGeo reference as a sly joke. Ojalá.
On the larger issue of the dark and the dreary and the technically suspect, I’m in general agreement with Jim. It’s just that exceptions are out there. And there’s an age element as well. Bitching too much about alternative arts kinda comes off as yelling at the youngsters to get off of your lawn.
Regarding the current essay, I find it a bit disturbing, creepy even, that the photographer has apparently gone to such great lengths to copy the style of another, and a contemporary no less. I’m aware that there’s a long tradition of art students being sent to the Louvre to faithfully copy the masters as a learning experience, but this seems closer to outright stealing. Maybe it’s stealing in the Picasso, great artists steal, sense, but still, it makes me uncomfortable. If what I understood from Bob is correct, and I were Ackerman, I think I might want some kind of royalties. Oh well, not for me to judge. Without the link and the background from Bob, I’d have been unaware. Best to just enjoy.
But back in the neighborhood of Jim’s point, I suspect if Posner wanted to look like a NatGeo photographer, he’d pull it off. He’s got skills. Not only in so many technical aspects of photography, but in narrative as well. More and more I suspect that still photography is in such a (perceived, at least) state of crisis as much because so many of the best photographers actively try to keep their work from being seen by the masses as it is because of any inherent deficiency in the medium. While Posner’s St. Petersburg may not appeal to most people who subscribe to Outdoor Photographer, much less Better Homes and Garden, it would have great appeal to a good number of English majors who will likely never learn of its existence. And if he gets a book out of it, those English majors aren’t going to be able to afford it, even if they do somehow hear about it. Seems it’s gonna take awhile before I get Bruce Davidson’s little $5000 prints and $350 book out of my head, eh? I’m suspecting that that kind of effete product placement is far more dangerous to the future of still photography than young people wallowing in the dark and dreary. Without some kind of easier distribution, the way it’s going, great photography will degenerate into something only the wealthy see when they crack open the large safe in the mansion’s basement. I exaggerate, sure, but by how much?
Jim, You must have a thick skin and quite a constitution to stick to your guns amongst all the divergent views to your own. That being said I think any photography that moves anyone to feel anything including vehement dislike is probably hitting some mark and in essence validates the effort if not itself.
You say “we are creating art that is inaccessible, incomprehensible, so self referential to be irrelevant”. I think if you showed Igor’s essay to a broad swath of the public some may find it difficult to comprehend, but I think there would be many who would appreciate it. There are many things difficult to comprehend worth contemplating even for a moment. For every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction. We need to see the dark in order to see the light. Isn’t that the point? Carl Jung said that as humanity becomes more enlightened we will also see our own shadow in greater detail, the dark deep recesses of our soul that do not like to be exposed. Photography that is relevant is that which engages both sides of our brain, the logical and rational with the intuitive and emotive. Igor’s piece probably lands more on the intuitive emotional side but in a world governed by rationality and logic, where computer models decide the fate of our economy and the number of bombs to drop in foreign invasions I think we could use some more intuition and emotion, some humanity.
The photography that becomes irrelevant is the photography that is cliche, boring, utilitarian, and functional. This kind of photography is done very well by large numbers of the public with digital cameras. As more people are exposed to the act of creating their own images the more they will appreciate the artistry and vision of photography outside of the NatGeo or newspaper variety. I think photography is now, through multimedia and the net reaching a place akin to film making where telling the story and evoking emotion is the true value. If photography even develops a fraction of the public impact that movies do I don’t think we have anything to worry about.
David – Patricia is right… that edge you’re on is getting too jagged and rusty… one slip and it could be your life. if not from the cut – then from the infection… what I mean is – they may put notice out among the “people” that if you’re caught in the city, country, region… These are the sorts of people that could make it impossible for you to work in the country ever again.
FROSTFROG,
the online journal of DAH – do you mean the Twitter Stream? This is here:
http://twitter.com/davidalanharvey
“Carl Jung said that as humanity becomes more enlightened we will also see our own shadow in greater detail, the dark deep recesses of our soul that do not like to be exposed.”
The “dark recesses of our soul” are not dark, high contrast, fuzzy, and grainy. Why photos with those characteristics have become a cliched metaphor for our bad choices I can’t quite figure out. And the idea that humanity has become more enlightened is a joke. We’ve simply become more obsessed with the voices in our own heads.
“Jim, You must have a thick skin and quite a constitution to stick to your guns amongst all the divergent views to your own.”
Well, of course I do. I’m a photographer. Isn’t that what photographers are being urged to do here?
Jim:
“The “dark recesses of our soul” are not dark, high contrast, fuzzy, and grainy.”
How’d you know that? Ever had a dream? A nightmare? What do you think about poetry in literature? What about theatre? Which place does Shakespeare have in your world?
Have a great day all, off shooting..
Eva, the “darkest recesses of our soul” are bright, sharply defined and seductive. (With the qualification that I don’t believe in an immaterial “soul”).
“Jim, You must have a thick skin and quite a constitution to stick to your guns amongst all the divergent views to your own.”
Jim, I think this is where you provide your most valuable service. You help to thicken up the skins of all these young photographers, even when their work is excellent. And, as you know, even the most excellent work of the very best will be criticized. As to the thickness of your own skin, I believe you revel in the controversy your comments generate.
Frosty, I don’t “revel” in anything. I haven’t created a persona just for Burn. What you see is really what you get with me.
VIVA THOMASSSS !!!
Break a leg!
http://www.flickr.com
tfelix’s Break a leg! set
NOT an everyday …essay !!!
broken leg BUT a strong Spirit .
HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRENT FOSTER !!! you look good …for 64 !!!
Jim, I believe that, but I also believe that what I see is the real you and the real you does revel in it, even if you don’t want to believe it.
Thanks CIVI :)
to see it as a slideshow: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tfelix/sets/72157623178612838/show/
JIM,
I have to agree with Frostfrog. See it as an compliment – and accept it ;-)
BURNIANS…let me tell you…after 3 Skype sessions with JIM…
I have to admit …:
1) JIM has a heart of gold
2) JIM is original …”What you see is really what you get with me.”
3) he hasn’t accepted the key of his Greek house…not yet :)))
4) He loves BURN as much …as we ALL do
5) 91% of the time …he has a strong, valuable,accurate …point…
6) he has been around the universe…for quite some time…
7) he has a nice ride …and haircut…
8) many times…he has raised …even my blood pressure to unhealthy limits…
9)…..
10)….
LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLlll
P.S MR.HARVEY …taking chances …oime…I hope MAMA SOCRATES…doesn’t read your tweets…oime
Skype sessions. Hmmmm. Now that’s interesting.
JIM …whatever happens in Skype…stays in Skype…
hihihi
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
CIVILIAN…
you forgot one thing about Jim..which was the first thing i thought about…that TEXAS accent..gotta love it…
PATRICIA…
you are quite right…and yesterday i was seriously afraid for several hours…nothing fun about it…the problems always come when you have “permission” from one group, but then another “higher level” group decides that what the original group photographed thought was fine, was not fine after all…no way to win in this scenario…i always proceed with as much caution as possible, but there is always the unknown that can never be known…and so many different personalities that are altered from hour to hour by drugs…so, the same person who is welcoming one minute can totally flip on you…ironically my first thought is never for my life, but for the pictures…i always think, “sure would hate to lose this card”..
cheers, david
Civi, I never kiss and tell.
JIM…I do tell and kiss…hihihi…
Texas accent…we haven’t gone that far…not yet…:)))
MR.HARVEY …if one can survive Rio …that would be you…
now… the CIRCUS …Carnival… it has written your name all over…DAHY…
“Other than Civi, there are no regular posters here who are not photographers.”
AKAKY IRL: Okay, you didnt quit your job, did you?
AKAKY: No, why do you ask?
AKAKY IRL: Because this guy, what the hell’s his name, Jim, he says that no regular on that damn DAH site you’re always looking at is not a photographer. I’m just checking, that’s all. I wanna make sure you didnt do something stupid.
AKAKY: Quit my job for what they pay those guys? Not frigging likely.
AKAKY IRL: You’re sure? I’m not gonna wake up one of these days and find myself out of house and home just because you caught this picture bug, am I?
AKAKY: Nope. Don’t worry about it, dude.
AKAKY IRL: You better no be lying to me, guy, or there’s gonna be hell to pay.
AKAKY: Keep your shirt, for chrissakes. I’m not quitting my job. Go watch tv or something and leave me alone.
AKAKY IRL: Okay.
CIVI : I love you all.
CIVI IRL: Are you serious ??? …you sound so tedious…
CIVI : BURNIANS are my “eyes”…BURNIANS are my …everyday visual inspiration…
CIVI IRL : are you for real …???
CIVI : I am just a civilian …and I just copy and paste…AKAKYYYYYYYYYYY…I am trying ….
wow…..
sure has been exciting around here lately…..
its almost like a movie…..
as BURN returns…..
*
angels
and
photographs…
***
Jim
You wrote “The “dark recesses of our soul” are not dark, high contrast, fuzzy, and grainy. Why photos with those characteristics have become a cliched metaphor for our bad choices I can’t quite figure out.”
It is certainly true that dark, high contrast, fuzzy, grainy has become a cliche’ and technique of choice for expressing angst, despair, and the dark side of life. I agree it can get tiresome.
Cliches, however, become cliches because they work. I suspect none of us can really avoid using them. Newspapers and magazines are full of them of course. I have a great appreciation for a new take on an old cliche’, or just a particularly well done one.
Igors use of the technique here works extremely well for the most part, and resonates with most of the people who have commented on it. I have a couple of nit-picky tech concerns which I did not voice in my comment under the essay. I always feel if you are going to do grainy, at least the grain should be sharp, even if the image is not. Fuzzy grain. Though tough to judge on a computer monitor, I suspect these are scanned negs, rather than scans from prints. Then there are the scratches and water marks, left in for effect I’m assuming. I just find them a distraction, which could have been removed with a couple of mouse clicks.
Overall, nit-picks aside, there are some stand-out wonderful images in Igors set, and a very successful example of the technique.
each photographer shoots in the way they shoot for a variety of reasons, each photographer comes to and hones story for a variety reasons, each photographer is drawn, inspired sympathetic to work for an entire calculus of reasons. each one of us, no matter our place or walk in life, must balance and reconcile ourselves to the way we live and how we measure out the spoonfuls of living in our life. we take pictures, each of us, for an entire history of reason that is as different from one to another as are the ways that a cat may hold her tail, or scape up against the dark.
i must, briefly, add the reason why i linked to Michael’s work vis-a-vis Igor’s notes. Let me again iterate that I know Igor personally and have watched his work grow and mature. my wish, not at all, was not to compare the two, nor denigrate. Igor clearly admires Michael and is profoundly under the visual influence of what Michael achieved in EndTime city and Fiction and Michael’s story Half-Life is also a clear inspiration. It is true, and i have spoken with Igor about this prior, that Igor is still searching for his oww visual way of expressing all that swirls inside his life experience. It is easy to be frustrated with the similarity and on ocassions i have also been both disturbed and frustrated. However, what lay at the core of how and why a photographer chooses to photograph is entirely outside each of our scopes of judgment. Igor photographs the way he does for reasons maybe similar to michael’s and at odds with them. How does one begin to argue over this. Sarah Moon: and her influence on michael and me…or deborah Turberville….her book on petersburg?….and frank and moriyama and peterson on everyone?….
what matters, what only matters to me, is that a person searches out those stories and those ways of telling story that best compliment their own life and ideas. in the end style is not owned by anyone, nor is language, nor is inspiration…the larger understanding is that it is all a collective, an organized way, a human way, to mark out the carvings of each of ou lives…
what i so much disdain about jim’s brash attitude is not that he finds the photography crap, who cares, but that he attempts to mark out for another the navigation of their lives. there’s plenty of things in life that not a single one of us agrees with or may enjoy and it doesnt matter…i hate onions and television and yet should i belittle my wife for her love of onions or my son for his love of tv shows….it’s grotesquely arrogant….
in the end, it doesnt matter one iota whether igor’s essay look like michaels, because michael lives his life the way he sees it and igor the same, and they’re friends and so be that. the teacher always reconciles themselves to the student, and besides what matters most is that each of us, through genuine earnestness and joy, share with each and everyone what it is we love and whittle away…
and lastly, for those who haven’t read Notes in a while or not at all, the one cliche thing that hasn’t been discussed here is Dostoevsky’s humor…actually Notes is a quite funny book and the entire second half is much much less ‘existential’ (dark and scratched) then it is a very simple and often absurd love story…for me Igor’s “notes’ has much much less to do with dostoevsky’s ‘notes’ (then a name and place and time of season and locations (boulevards/bridges/bars/apartments) then it does with the experience of returning to a city and country in which you are both part and absent…and that was also the narrator’s idea….which he learned in loved…..
and why do we persist in suggesting that if we dont’ like something it’s shit….or cliched….or unapproachable….how about just saying:
‘not my cup of chai’…and be done with it….
texas accent or not
maybe we all need more bbq, cause aint it really about the time spent together in the first place? not necessarily which bbq sauce is sweeter
running
b
Bob; “how about just saying: ‘not my cup of chai’…and be done with it….
Touché!!!!
Thomas B – Yes, that must be what I mean. I misunderstood. Thanks.
Just returned from a trip to Troodos with plenty of new pictures…
Here is a great-aunt of mine:
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_5321_S.jpg
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_5334_S.jpg
Here is another great-aunt showing me one of the family albums:
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_5633_S.jpg
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_5630_S.jpg
THODORI, THODORI…
you brought back so many memories..
Are we talking about the famous highest mountain in Cyprus …with all the churches and the monastiria???
Getting photographic access to my dog ( camera shy) is rare and difficult with the rare grainy blurred shot………….one day I will manage to create an essay. People will be amazed with my ability to get access
DAH – good to hear you are safely en route
Tzalavras_5321_S.jpg – what a tiny sauce pan! is it for hot chocolate???
Civi… yes, that’s the one…
And here is the Milky Way!!
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_5350_S.jpg
Jason… no idea…
‘night from Cyprus…
no idea what happened there…
A note for any burnians in Seattle…
A 3 month course in Digital storytelling is being offered through the Parks Department for $45.00. I believe this class was listed last year for teens but this year it is for adults over 20..
Description:
NEW!! A digital story is a short personal, often emotionally-driven movie that utilizes the three following components: narrative, images, and a soundtrack. Participants will learn technical aspects of combining audio recording and digital images, creative writing skills, and becoming comfortable in a group working in a creative process.
http://class.seattle.gov/parks/Activities/ActivitiesCourseDetails.asp?aid=226&cid=50384
As you were.
DAVID
I’m with Erica — it sure is good to know you’re safely on your way home. I’ll be honest, to hear you say you were “seriously afraid for several hours” is rather chilling. Knowing you, you don’t scare easily. And it sure sounds like your fears were justified. At least you’ll have three weeks at home to consider the situation and make your plans accordingly. I’m no pj but to me no NatGeo assignment is worth putting one’s life at risk, great photos or not.
Welcome home!
Patricia
Patricia, I wonder how many times the job has gotten dangerous for NG shooters. Some stories seem so safe, but when dealing with other cultures, volcanos, animals, caves… It seems that any story has a potential to be disasterous! I’ve often heard you’re not really alive until you’re on the edge of your life. Perhaps it’s the ability to focus and do astounding work while at that point that makes people like David so great. :) thank you Again David for taking us with you on your trip. Though we were at a safe distance. We still felt the fear and uncertainty… And we’re all glad you’re alive. :)
Actually, Jason, it was the famous fictional British spy James Bond you are referencing. In a haiku to his friend Tiger Tanaka, Bond wrote:
“You only live twice:
Once when you’re born
And once when you look death in the face.”
I love it when someone references Bond, even if the reference is stirred, rather than shaken. ;)
¨…i hate onions and television and yet should i belittle my wife for her love of onions or my son for his love of tv shows….it’s grotesquely arrogant….¨
bob
Jim:
“Eva, the “darkest recesses of our soul” are bright, sharply defined and seductive…”
nah, they’re are pink with green dots.. floating..and ugly smelling..
Again, do you ever dream, have nightmares? Read poetry or go to theatre plays? (yes, I know you do the latter, have seen your pictures).. I’ve been to a theatre play yesterday, Dante, ever read him? The actors were sharp, if you just looked at them, the mood was so so fuzzy and dark..
I think the way we see and interprete pictures are reflections of ourselfs.
If one has no reflections for a specific topic, that is just fine.
“The brightest light moving away from us, unless it be reflected, is darkness to us.”
Hi THOMAS…your leg looks nice…Enjoy.
Beautiful day in Grecolandia…the sky is falling but Greeks keep …rolling !!!
MR.HARVEY …I will keep calling the spirits…welcome back…safe travels…
be safe…may the spirits…wish you happy times…well as you can see…
it’s very hard to keep up with YOU and the other BURNIANS…therefore…
only this I have to say…
you deserve…what you deserve…hmmm…
hmmm…
I like that…simple and sophisticated…VIVA!!!
http://www.etrouko.com.au/im/book25.htm
With all this talk of technique/style, have a look at this quote by a great photographer andreas heumann which seems to sum it up pretty well.
Heumann said during an interview in “Techniques of Masters” (worldwide satellite TV series, sponsored by Kodak): “A bad picture will always be a bad picture, no technique will save or improve it. It is not style or technique that makes the image. It is the thought and the interpretation of an experience in life, our seven senses, which have to be translated into a picture. The technique is only a tool for enhancement of a thought”.
Cheers all
Eva, yes I’ve read Dante. My college degree is in English Lit. Do you think that most writers stories are autobiographical? Anne Rice, when her Vampire books no longer sold very well, switched to writing Christian themed books, which are making her a bundle.
My nightmares aren’t dark, fuzzy and grainy. They are bright, sharp and frustrating, filled only with fuzzy thinking people (it’s an editor thing, I suspect). But why would I want to shoot photos that attempted to make the real world look like my dream world, anyway? Isn’t the world outside my head interesting enough?
episteme versus doxa
Jim, I wish be so sure about everything as you. An I would like to know what is right and what is not. And how photography should looks like and how not. And how photogs should work and how not. And what photography is and what it is not. And what I think is good, knowledge, reasonable.
very pretty quickie….
i miss u all… i just got “home” up in northern greece ( whatever that means- still in grecolandia )..
home from travelling in remote greek areas..shooting all kinds of craziness… im here to pack up some fresh clothes and leave again for another destination ..in half an hour…
internet again hopefully in 2 days..
love u all..
big hug..
and Thomas…sorry to hear about the broken leg…plz be well soon…
more in 2 days..
DAH…
im glad u survived the first step of Rio life…skype soonest…
Where I live on the shores of northern Puget Sound, the sky and the landscape (and sometimes the people too!) are dark, fuzzy, grainy, and grey for 8 months of the year… that may be a nightmare, but it’s also reality! So I like to take bright, crisp, colorful pictures of young Asian women in gorgeous, colorful costumes as an escape from that reality… and as a way of recalling my former reality as a teacher in a women’s college in Japan where I was surrounded by cute young Asian women in gorgeous, crisp, colorful costumes… but that was also at times a nightmare! Reality… dream… nightmare… reality… dream… nightmare… dark, fuzzy, grainy, and grey… crisp, bright, and colorful… dark, fuzzy, grainy, and grey… crisp, bright, and colorful… dark, fuzzy, grainy, and grey…(repeat the mantra…) those are the seasons of the year, and the seasons of our lives… dream, nightmare, reality… (repeat the mantra…)
Thomas i will also skype u soonest….
:))))))))))
Marcin, episteme versus doxa is a false dichotomy. What is the real world difference between “truth” and popular opinion?
As for the rest of your post, I’m way past trying to please everyone with my opinions. They are what they are. I’ve spent nearly 60 years forming them and they are, by now, well examined. Call it what you like.
Jim,
I have my strong opinions which define me, but really, I wish have your point of view. Always so sure. Everything could be much easier. But we are who we are.
why do we persist in suggesting that if we dont’ like something it’s shit….or cliched….or unapproachable….
how about just saying:
‘not my cup of chai’…and be done with it….
Very well said (your last lengthy comment), Bob, as always. Nevertheless, I don’t agree with your conclusion.
Criticism in the arts is a good thing and I think photography could use more, not less. Not only is it good for photography in general, it’s good for individual photographers as well. I suspect that the lack of a more structured set of critical tools, as compared to, say, painting or film, limits the monetary value of our work. People ultimately have to fall back on “it’s good” or “it’s crap” without the ability to reason why. There are reasons. Cliches, to use one of your examples, are real and dangerous. It does the medium good for serious critics to identify what’s good and what’s crap and explain it for not just photographers but for more of a mass audience as well. An effective set of critical tools allows for different styles. It doesn’t mean everything has to be classically, composed, sharp in the right places and properly exposed throughout (though thereabouts ain’t a bad place to start).
Regarding those ongoing issues of things like composition, focus, graininesss, blah, blah blah, in relation to Jim’s current thang, I re-read the essay by Francine Prose about Robert Frank’s “Americans” in the current Harper’s last night and noticed that Frank was severely criticized for those very things, as well as for not really doing journalism. Jim, I don’t recall you commenting on Frank’s work. Do you have the same disdain for it for the same reasons? I’m not saying you shouldn’t. Just curious.
I think part of it is the old saw about modern art that only when the painter is able to faithfully depict reality is he or she qualified to chuck that technique for impressionism or whatever. I find that although I’m not so much in that camp with painting, I agree with the idea much more when it comes to photography. Note that David, to use the obvious example, has mastered technique at a world class level and it shows.
Another argument for mastering technique relates to the recent threads about ethics. For example, there is a lot of talk about our responsibility to the subjects from whom we’ve gained trust. Well, I’d say that responsibility includes more than just honesty and respect. It includes getting good photos. For the photographer that hasn’t mastered old-fogey techniques such as lighting and composition, that’s much less likely to happen.
But back to Bob’s point, without higher criticism and the critical tools necessary to conduct it (which certainly include non-technical elements such as vision, passion, et. al.), photography will remain a lesser art in the minds of many. If we can’t say why something is good or why something is crap (and it’s necessary to say that some things are crap) in a more or less consistent manner that at least well-educated people can understand, then it’s understandable why no one would want to pay for our crap.
Michael :)
critical evaluation and discussion about photography and work (aesthetic, historical, philosophical, practical) are critical elements to the life and vibrancy of photography. as a photographer who also happens to publish stuff i’ve written about photography/photographs/photographers, i couldn’t agree more. in fact, at least as originally planned, I’ve tried to bring critical discussions and some degree of critical faculty (and training) to the discussion of the merits and occassional demerits of work. the problem is that no everyone has that skill or desire or experience or background…and that’s cool too.
the problem that i lament is not the critical discussion of work, but rather the way that people discuss work. have a very catholic (in the non-religious sense) taste for ideas and work but also having blogged through the photo world for some time, i welcome rich argument and discussion…as long as it wasn’t defined by quips belittling work….which does happen and which negates the merit of chatting…
make sense :))
gotta fly
b
Episteme and Doxa aren’t Greek lady wrestlers? Damn. I bought tickets and everything.
Bob
Alexy Brodovich apparently was especially brutal in his critiques, and would dismiss work with quips like “postcard”.
I’m not suggesting we all adopt this approach, but it is a valuable and valid one. Perhaps some comments are too short and blunt, and perhaps some are a bit long winded and obtuse. It is certainly more stimulating to hear both.
Hi all. I see I’ve been missing out on lots of lively discussions. I won’t ever be able to catch up with all that. But I hope some day to catch up with all the snaps that have been posted. (for the benefit of serious minds, I mean that (snaps) tongue in cheek).
India is fine. The weather is perfect for cycling. Today I have found a very fine internet cafe with broadband and fancy computers. A most unusual experience. I am in Orissa – Eastern India. The national park that I came to this place to visit is closed to the public due to Naxalite/Maoist activity. Darn. Nobody seemed to know it outside this town. What to do? Have a rest and catch up on emails.
I am now appreciating Erica’s previous complaints about editing. Its the downside of digital photography. One just can’t help but take far too many pictures and most of them belong in the bin but its hard to let go of them at the time.
Hope you’ve all been keeping well.
Jim:
First your question (“Do you think that most writers stories are autobiographical?”), I think, that like in every other kind of art (and literature is one of them), the artist puts her/himself into the work. I don’t think though, that we can just call it autobiographical.. and we could now argue what literature is and what not.. and why somebody writes books and why s/he writes what, or not, the value it has and will have in the future.
Where you make my eybrows lift is when you write that “our souls are…”. How do you know what my soul looks like? You sure can tell of yours, but that’s it. Nor can you say what mine should look like..
I’m all for having and stating strong opinions, and critiques, absolutely no problem with that, but saying that Posner should first learn how to take sharp pictures.. well, that makes me smile a bit.. you are right, film can produce grey also, not only black and white.. the keyword is ‘can’.. it’s not a must.. but I’m pretty sure that you know what I’m talking about, and also that you wont change your mind ;)
Gordon :)
well, my often ill-advise obtuse ramblings, unfortunately, are often a condition of the web…i tend to write quickly (here) and broadly, as im usually writing a comment in-between other things:juggling ;)))…so, i do tend to pile everything into one quick ramble….and a clear, succinct ‘doesn’t work’ is often much much more honest and valuable that a long explanation why or why not…no argument from me about that…
the problem lay in the attitude toward work. calling another’s a post-card is fine, but tells me much much more about the critic (including Brodovich) than it tells me about the work….shit, Parr made a glorious book(s) called just that Postcards :))))))
again, it boils down to one thing, something not necessarily possible on the web where communication is rear-ended by our perception of the words…real life it’s much easier to have critical discussions about work, without pinching feelings….just as it is much easier on the web to be short, succinct and belittling…
it’s easier to be dismissive to a person and work on the web than in real life…that’s my lamentation…
i should also say that my criticism of jim’s comment(s) is NOT at all about him…he did put his money where his heart is when he not only helped burn but also when he helped another photographer (sending erica a lens) and that is much more important to me and a real indication of his predilection: toward generosity, then the quips…which seem much more about persona here….so, while i find often the negative comments unhelpful and often hurtful, i do not think jim in a a negative way, not at all….
by the way, sometimes (often) i re-read what i write here (long, obtuse, silly) and think: what the fuck were u doing/saying bob, moronic;)))…
in the end, web persona, emails, skype, blogs do not mean anything to me anymore (i learned the lesson the hard way), all that matters is how someone acts in real life, and from what i have seen, jim’s a angel, at least the texs variety ;))
running
b
just back home from Rio…way behind in the comments…will not have much time to catch up either, but will try tonight…have both Washington and NYC on my schedule this week….gotta go buy a new iPhone …i have not had a telephone land line for a few years, but wish i had one now….just caught hell from my son Bryan and girlfriend Michelle for getting a bit reckless in Rio…but, where is he going next week? Rio..
Bob
I love your rambling posts. I’m often amazed by the depth of your analysis and way with words.
David – WELCOME HOME!
iphone – Do your self a favor and check out the HTC hero… better organized and easier to stay connected with everyone. Not as much of a “media” device as the iPhone is – meaning it’s not a robust gaming device coupled with a great audio system… the Hero runs the Android system. I’m picking one up in a few weeks. the price is WAY BETTER $175 for the phone – removable memory – expandable with micro SD, plus for $65 you get unlimited data, messaging, and 450 any time minutes… BUT any call made to and received from another cell phone regardless of carrier is free. night and weekends start at 7 and can be made to 6pm for some amoutn of money.. if you use a credit union – you get a 15% discount on your monthly bill.. and certain organizations get discounts as well.. Also you may have better reception!! :D plus the battery is totally removable so in the event of attack from water, you may be able to save it by popping the battery out quickly enough. I’ve dropped phones in toilets and saved them by doing that.
ok enough selling phones – It’s not even my job… but it is my job to take care of friends… welcome home! Glad you’re safe. You’re supposed to be setting examples for us all – don’t get so reckless!
David, I wondered how your family would be feeling about your adventures in Rio. Am not surprised that even mild-mannered Bryan let you have it. And just because he’s going to Rio doesn’t mean he’ll do it in the same way as his daddy ;=)
I’m sure you are up to your ears in stuff to do, so I’ll handle our business here. Regarding the print (of me looking in the mirror) that you say someone is interested in buying: I’ll Fed-Ex you a CD with the image in hi res and an archival sticker with my signature for the back. I’ll use the Magnum address. Please give it to Mike C. to be printed. I’m putting a price of $300 on it knowing that Burn will receive a good percentage, and Mike will receive his cost for printing. Thanks so much!
Now please try to get a good night’s sleep tonight. Man, you are WAY overdue!!!
hugs
Patricia
DAH,
whatever phone you end up – consider a waterproof bag for the next time.
This keeps the water-detectors dry and you are still eligible for guarantee.
for example:
http://www.waterproofcases.net/iphones.html
Jeez David, it must be trying having so many moms worrying about you all the time and telling you to stay on the good side of the tracks. Guess there are advantages as well.
Thomas is right! but, some of those cases can be bulky and a pain to carry around. I haven’t found a nice slim one… so here’s a good idea from kipkay.com Use un-lubricated condoms.
here are a variety of other things they can be used for… a shot gun?
Now there’s a great idea Jason. Any cool photo uses, colored ones for flash filters?
So what did you do when they tried to hand you the gun … hmmm, hand him the camera and smile?
YOUNG TOM HYDE…
funny…that is exactly what i did….
THOMAS B
well, yes of course, even a simple ziploc bag would have done the trick…i had no idea i was going anywhere near the water, otherwise i would have done just as you suggest..the picture situation was a surprise , so i just went for it…
PATRICIA…
well, my family has always been on my case for one thing or another and i am on theirs too…there is a harrowing audio sound track of Bryan pinned down by gunfire in the Congo a few years ago, so he has been in much worse situations than i…you know how it is, you always fear much more for others than for yourself…it is a spectacular warmish winter day here at the beach..i sit on my front porch and neighbors wave as if i never left here…strange this travel bit…
DAH,
I know .. “things” happen. Reminds me very much of my leg ..
I wished I could support you on the iPhone thing. Unfortunately we have no used ones in the closets, they are still to popular…
Ha! laughing … welcome back.
DAVID,
Good to know that you are back safely…. Somehow it seems your trip has been longer than 10 days…You seem to have done so much already and all I can say is that your short notes have been captivating for us here… Is Bryan going now to Rio with a view of a collaboration between father and son on this subject?? This would be cool… I seem to recall that Bryan was somehow “involved” with the film you did in Cuba as well as the multimedia piece you did for Living Proof… another collaboration in Rio would seem like a good idea, especially if the two of you will be there at about the same time!!! Is that the intent????
You also suggested that I ask you again when back what you exactly intend to show with the essay…Do you have the storyline by now or is this still work in progress and too early to tell??? As you cover the favellas, the guns but also the fashion shows, you will obviously show us the different eclectic sides of the city but knowing you, you probably have the story by now…:):):)
I also wonder what you will be doing when back in Rio. Will you stay away now from the favellas after getting this warning or will you get back there after maybe ensuring that this “higher” guy better understands what you are up to???… I can just imagine that it must be hard to stay away for too long as these favellas represent a critical side of Rio…. Not easy to know what to do…Hopefully, you have all the pictures you needed from that area and can focus on something else when you go back there…. when I read about the difficulties of working with different personalities that are altered by drugs…and as you say, individuals who can flip on you from one minute to the next, it reminds that I was recently asking myself the question about how did Eugene Richards manage to pull off the work he did for his book COCAINE… I just got his book as a gift recently and his work on this topic is very powerful.. I still wonder how he managed to get so close to these dealers and drug addicts…he must have been walking on a very fine line more than once… must be stressful I am sure, not only to take the pictures but also afterwards to publish these wihout knowing the reactions etc…
In any case, relax and enjoy the warmish winter at the beach….in here, still cold, freezing cold actually and grey and snowy…apart from that doing OK :) but not sure I have selected the right place:):):)
Cheers,
Eric
ERIC…
i think Gene did his cocaine book in much the same way i worked on Living Proof and now in Rio…you go in , you get out…you go back in again…playing it as safe as possible, but always knowing you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time…Gene and i talked quite a bit about this before i started work in the South Bronx….i am telling myself now there is no need to go back in…i already have a pretty nice picture of a dealer with his cocaine wares and armed…by the way, it was the copy of Living Proof that i showed them that made them willing to be photographed in the first place…but, there are better pictures of this to be made IF i do indeed go back…if so, i will go in without a camera and go straight to the top boss who was very angry at the lower level dealers who allowed me to take pictures…i will try to convince him that my pictures will not go to the cops and that i can shoot without identification of location or of person…their main concern of course is for their own safety…if identified , the cops would go straight for them…it is also quite tense now in this particular favela since the police have already told this neighborhood that they plan to raid it and secure it before 2011…
the cops have already made safe several favelas in anticipation of the upcoming World Cup and Olympic Games…my story on Rio will surely include only one picture like this (unless i do a book)…it seems like i am spending so much attention on it now, but honestly i simply wanted to do the hardest part first..get it over with so to speak….i only spent probably 10 minutes or less actually shooting these pictures…the rest was all getting in and a whole lot of negotiation and explaining my work was not going into the wrong hands…i was indeed very happy last night when my plane did lift off the runway with all this work intact…
i may have told you that when in L.A. and shooting one of the rap superstars with shotgun and smoking a joint, that i later received a phone call from his manager saying “if you publish that picture, we will either sue you or shoot you”…that picture is not in Living Proof!! by the way, at the time, they insisted that i take this picture!! moods change, as you say…
Bryan and i may collaborate some on this…however, he is in Rio filming for another project totally unrelated and coincidental with my work…
what i will go back to is the fashion world…THAT is more my cup of tea….
YOUNG TOM..
a picture exists on my friends cell phone of me holding the gun…i will see if i can get it…yes, the first thing they did was put a gun in my hand and made sure i had my picture taken with it…….i thought that was absolutely the strangest thing…but i am imagining they had taken the bullets out….but who knows?? rational thinking is not a part of their game
cheers, david
whirlwind DAH, how do you do it? you just happen to drop in your twitter feed that you are doing a seminar with shore and koudelka, two GIANTS in modern photography. can you point us to more info about that event?
DAH… in DC? have time? Call. If not, no prob. Next time.
Cheers.
Uh… yeah, calling could be tough, I see. email! ;^}
“negotiation and explaining my work was not going into the wrong hands”
I doubt is twitter is that helpful on assignment as blow by blow reports are there for all to read………the open net means no secrets. They probably have a pretty good idea of who and what goes on in their neighbourhoods.
DAH:
I second Dq’s request. I just gave my girlfriend Aga a Phaidon book about Shore for Christmas. . .
Sounds like they are not wasting any time in addressing the “favela issue” with IOC looking over their shoulder. Seems like an explosive situation. I watched the video of the police helicopter shot down in Oct. And the people displaced will …?
aaahh the power of the Olympics, make the city look good for a month or so
David – before you buy a new iPhone – send me an email!!!! I have a used one for you – Very reasonably priced. It’s semi famous too!
jason@jasonhouge.com
“Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy.”
Eskimo Proverb
This is for MICHELLE and BRYAN …SPACECOWBOY says that DUNCAN is having a blast !!!
and MR.HARVEY …yes…akiiii… loves the water…
Episteme or Doxa…hmmm… I will go with Aristotles this time…Endoxa…!!!
or I will stay with AKAKY …watch the ladies do the wrestling thing…oime…
…today I am going inwards …hihihi…I am eating olives
BURNIANS…what are YOU Shooting???…whatever it is…keep it close and personal…
foot
Suggestion of the day…:]
“when someone gives you a gun…you give him/her your M9…with a smile”
VIVA!!!
foot ??? …what not to LOVE ???
civi: An airplane, wind, coffee, cats… all with my little, tiny, s90 pocket camera.
My latest post is finished, but will not appear for three hours yet (8:00 AM East Coast Time, 4:00 AM Alaska time and I do not know what time Greece time.
But there’s a little wind in the post that’s at the top right now – and coffee and a pretty waitress, a dog riding a three-wheeled motorcyle.
So, Civi, drop by, leave a comment on my blog and say “hi,” so I know you came.
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com
FROSTFROG…I left a message…ROYCE is an emerging fighter …
I LOVE your photos…and the waitress:)))
Keep it up…we believe in you …keep this part of the Universe…BURNing!!!
DQ.
the Natgeo seminar is an annual gathering of photographers and editors and always features iconic photographers as well as Natgeo presentations..i think the seminar has been going like this for about 30 years and is a by invitation only event intended primarily for the creative teams at Natgeo
DAVIN…
i very specifically invited you to my loft to meet Koudelka and you did not show up….
IMANTS…
yes, you are right about twitter…but, i am not trying to hide anything…i was quite open with the men in the favela about exactly who i was and exactly what i was doing….if they read of my activities on twitter and get hold of my books and copies of Natgeo i did leave behind in the favela of my past work, then so much the better…i am certainly not trying to “sneak pictures”..the more they know,the better, as far as i am concerned…and i would never never either publish nor show any work which would put them in harms way….most of the work i did in the favelas was of family life etc anyway…it is a complex compound issue with the favelas…most of those living there lead quite normal lives and are not involved in any illegal activities…i think when all the dust settles you will see a very balanced vision of life in a favela as well as the cultural life in general in Rio.
JASON…
a famous iPhone??
cheers, david
It is not a matter of hiding,the Olympics are will have a impact on the city drug lords etc.and it is their income and status that is under threat. I never figured that you would sneak a image but that guy in the background……
but no matter all gets forgotten soon enough
MR.HARVEY …no problem…
we all know by now…that even if you wanted to sneak a picture…hmmm… you can’t …
hihihi…you and your camera …hihih…too BIG to hide …hohohio…
I am tasting …my homemade wine…hhhhiii…too good …to focus…VIVA
IMANTS..
there is no publishing company in the world more careful about what gets published than Natgeo….NG will err on the side of being socially responsible rather than publish a dramatic picture for its own sake…you are quite correct, the Olympics will have a major affect on many lifestyles in Rio and is i am sure one of the reasons Natgeo would get out ahead and be interested in documenting this city now….
……….. the months after the olympics would be of greater interest but alas no magazine mileage there
…..just watching the guard change would be a worthy assignment
IMANTS..
i do not know now how long my interest in Rio will go….i am usually into a subject for the long haul and go way beyond an assignment if i feel the subject has even more depth than what i may be able to do on commission..we will see…watching the “changing of the guard” as you say is exactly the assignment i think i have..please know that i am totally in the learning process…much remains to be seen…there are no preconceptions by either Natgeo or by me…even though much of my career has been spent documenting the Americas, this is a brand new project and my toes are not even wet….
History has shown that the initial construction period (which by the way includes displacement of people, “cleaning up” by putting it under the rug of whatever might be perceived as ugly by the tourists, new surveillance systems for the “safety of the games” that become permanent tools in the hands of the police, expenditures that are way beyond the capabilities and needs of the local economies, etc…) leading up to the games is usually followed by abandonment and downgrade of the areas where the games took place… most probably the “cleaned up” areas will be back to “normal” (or even worse) a couple of years after the games…
CIVILIAN….
yes, no way i can hide…too big, too bald…even with a small camera….
THODORIS…
yes, this is unfortunately the pattern….
ok, gotta load up my truck and drive….i love driving and drinking coffee and listening to music…offline for about 24 hours i think depending on several factors…back soonest…
i didn’t say bald …did I say bold…nope…it wasn’t me…
now, i see why this is a BURNing ROADTRIP …hell ya…!!!
…vroom,vroommmmm
Regarding the main essay of the moment, I’ve been watching it off and on since it was published but just now got around to reading the comments. Shows I still haven’t figured out burn. I really expected it to get savaged. Well, not savaged perhaps, but I thought there would be quite a bit of negative criticism.
For one, I just see fairly typical family pictures that include quite a few beach shots. Sure, they are technically better than the typical family photo — better lighted and composed, but still, that’s all there is as far as I can tell. Shorter criticism in this regard: “Look ma, Jews!”
Secondly, it’s not that the Jewish orthodox phenomena isn’t fascinating, but the only thing we see that’s possibly interesting about them in this essay is the way they dress. And I guess the fact that they have a lot of kids if we consider the captions (the photos don’t show that btw, I’d guess three kid average by looking at them).
So many interesting questions remain not just unanswered but unquestioned. Why do they dress like that? Why don’t they interact with the locals? What’s unique about their beliefs? Why do they have so many children? And they sure seem happy? Is their religion some kind of panacea for what ails us? Or are there significant problems in their community? I’m aware that much of that is difficult to show with photos, but photos can certainly illustrate answers to those questions and captions can expand on it.
In short, what’s special about them besides the way they dress? All we see in this essay is what any of us can see just by going out in public. And unless we’ve never seen an orthodox Jew before, we learn nothing.
DAH –
yes that whole thing of going away and then seeing your neighbors again, casual wave, has always felt surreal to me…
“will try to convince him that my pictures will not go to the cops and that i can shoot without identification of location or of person…their main concern of course is for their own safety…if identified , the cops would go straight for them…”
as in, no full faces?
David – Not a terribly famous phone… It’s only known about by a Civillian-Mass Audience
a bunch of people from the loft and some here and at home. It belongs to (this is said with epic announcer echo) “The iPhone Photojournalist!”
AT&T doesn’t service the area I live it. I can get signalbut it’s scetchy. I cancelled my account and am buying the new phone in a couple of weeks. So, I’m offering my phone to you free.
It’s a 3G and it’s a 16 gig some scratching due to my case breaking and not buying a new one… Camera works wonderfully, Everything works just fine! It’s not going to have the nice feel of holding a new one. But a new one comes with a pretty hefty price tag and they will continue to charge you too much for the service. Just send me an email with the address you want it sent to. I will try to get it out to you as soon as you do!
Unless you’re thinking of switching like I am! Haha
Michael
Dah twittered “Sometimes I think we all love snapshots more than anything” though not in reference to the current essay. I’m not sure about “we all”, but it certainly applies to me.
Yes, Chloes photos could be described as sophisticated snaps, or “look ma,” pictures. I described them as clean, un-affected story-telling. Sometimes photographers lose sight of the story telling, and instead concentrate on finding photos to display how clever and artsy they are…look at ME photography.
Gordon, I don’t doubt I was less than clear in my previous post, but the gist of my criticism is that she is not communicating any story, at least not beyond “look, people who dress differently.” I have no problem with clean, unaffected photographs.
Michael, OK, fair enough. I actually found the whole piece fascinating and almost surreal.
DAVID
At the NatGeo seminar, if you happen to run into either Annie Griffiths Belt or Sam Abell, please pass on my warm regards… if you mention my name in the same sentence with ‘Washington State’ and ‘Japan’ I’m sure both will remember me. Enjoy a well-earned respite hanging out with your peers!
Gordon. Not everyone looks at photographs to be told a story. It certainly comes quite low on my list when looking at work. It kinda goes…..WOW! THATS F***ING GREAT! THE TONES ARE FANTASTIC. I LOVE IT!(or its opposite, obviously)…..after that im sometimes mildly interested in where, who, why and what? But the picture always comes first for me. For that reason, essays in the style of the current one are of no interest to me.
Luckily we have diversity, not just in the styles that people like, but also in their reasons for viewing photography in the first place. Vive la difference.
john
John G “Not everyone looks at photographs to be told a story”
I agree. Although story telling pretty much occurs in all different kinds of photography. Even that photograph that you admire for its beautiful tones is whispering a little message to you. I love photographs that hint at secrets, ask me questions. I also love photographs that just say “look at this”.
A literary analogy might be the differences between a beautifully written account of a journey, or a thoughtful autobiography, and a very dense poem full of symbols, exploring some deep dark place.
Being photographers we are sometimes at a dis-advantage when viewing photographs. Making it tough to get past the “shop” aspect. {gee, I wonder if this is film or digi, wonder what lens was used, what a great rendering of tones, what a great composition, I love how that blur is helping the overall look, what awesome colour, etc etc etc. I have the same problem musically, when listening to great flute player…(wow, what awesome chops, I can’t believe the tone, the control, I can’t believe how effortless his ornamentation is, etc).
In both cases, our inside knowledge expands our appreciation of what is going on, while at the same time interfering with the “pure” experience. I know film-makers and actors who have similar issues.
Burn, and this dialogue, certainly help in allowing us to explore and embrace the diversity you mention. Vive la difference indeed, and Viva Burn.
Civi – Thank you! I appreciate the visit and the comment.
David Alan
So, is that Nikon of yours still working?
“Share our similarities, celebrate our differences.”
M. Scott Peck (American psychiatrist and Author, 1936-2005)
BURN is a “pure” experience…
did someone mention …VIVA ??? !!!
LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLL…goodnight from the wet Grecolandia …!!!
DAH:
I think I was at the Eddie Adams workshop when Koudelka was there and I was staying at my mother’s in the Berkshires in Western Massachusetts aright before and after Eddie Adams and not in New York.
oh…before I go…
FROSTFROG…say hi to MARGIE…0)))
and Hi to all my BURNIANS…KATIEEEEEEEEEEEE,MyGRACIE,DAVIDB,LASSAL,HAIK,JASON,AUDREY,KERRY,MIKER,HERVE,PANOS,
JOHN,MATTHEW,REIMAR,ourPATRICIA,ANDREWB,MICHAELK,KATHARINA,CATHY,KATIA,GINA,ANNA…VALERY…
………………………………….
………………………….
ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz
DAH:
I am curious how much you shot in 10 days in Rio? How many pictures?
Davin, excellent straightforward question – I second it….I always wonder myself how many images are behind the essays and the books…I know many, many, but it seems I always have hundreds and perhaps only one or 5 “keepers”…
DAH…glad you are back safely and now roadtripping in the comfort of your own truck….there is certainly a sense of zen meditation (at least for me) when driving alone….also, my condolences to all there on the loss of little Duncan…the video tribute brought tears to my eyes, for those who aren’t “pet” people it’s hard to understand just how much a part of the family our pets are….
Working on some things here….details soonest :)
good light all,
a.
DAH, all…
Greetings from India.
Just taking a quick peek here in the internet cafe.
Seeing DAH’s comment about “long-term commitment to a place” makes me smile.
I’m here in India for my 13th time in the last 15 years.
I have lived for months at a time in this same small (now much larger) town for 12 out of the last 15 years. Even after all these years, yesterday was my best day of shooting here EVER! The things that interested me in the past no longer catch my attention and I am seeing so much I never noticed before. I guess the three year absence didn’t hurt me! Having a blast…
It’s great for a change to be out in the world shooting and unable to read the comments. I’ll have time for that soon enough! Just wanted to say HI and let you know I’m in photo heaven. :))
CATHY
sounds great and no doubt getting to know one small corner of a country is much more interesting than trying to gorge ourselves on the whole thing..
DAH
out of interest – what is the lead time for natgeo? the time from pitching a story to shooting and then to publication?
regarding twitter – i think you did a fine job of demystifying the shoot.. look forward to the snaps more though :ø)
BILL FROSTFROG
enjoyed your blog just now..
where you are reminds me very much of where i am in norway, although you are undoubtedly further north..
it took me a while to fully enjoy the fresh crisp chill of life here, and now i do the extremes of seasonal change are a blast..
right now, and for the past month, much of the day is spent with a deep saturated orange of sunset / sunrise with only the briefest of points at noon where the light becomes average..
looking forward to traveling north at some point this year to work in some of the more remote areas of norsk lapland, now that i´m acclimatised to the cold.
only -3 today, which is a 10 degree improvement on last week.. the big thaw is beginning.
Cathy – lucky you. I love the one India picture that you have up on your under-construction site, which I have book-marked and I will check back to see more.
I have been to India twice now, but never for very long and always furiously on the go (as India is furiously on the go). I shot many pictures of many things in a very short while, and so far have not had the time to go through but a small percentage of them even once.
My last trip was in May and I put a little bit of it on my blog. Just before 2009 ended, I did a month-by-month year in review. Here is the May review, rushed, with only the tiniest hint of what I shot and not so elegant as your single posted shot, but it is what is:
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2009/12/31/2009-in-review-may-melanie-and-i-go-to-india-for-soundaryas.html
Another quick internet stop somewhere in the nowhere zone of the empire of mustaches…
NEW LINK…..
so let me post another small adventure..
or
“how to get a room for the night without paying”…
set slideshow to 5 sec..
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF24?authkey=Gv1sRgCMz289bo06v3YA#slideshow/5426171834352318546
or… check proof sheet here:
and click one photo at a time:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF24?authkey=Gv1sRgCMz289bo06v3YA#
Cathy School ….. where in India are u shooting at ?
Panos …. love the angel in the subway shot !
The British Journal of Photography is reporting that photojournalist Dennis Stock has died. And according to Amateur Photographer (UK):
“A source close to the American-born photographer has confirmed news of his death to Amateur Photographer magazine.
The New York office of the photographer’s agency, Magnum Photos, is due to make a formal announcement on his death this afternoon.”
CATHY….
from the time of an idea , story approval, getting the story shot/ written, i would say takes about a year to a year and a half….my pictures from Rio would not likely be in the magazine before next year at this time…this is an estimate, but a pretty accurate one imo….from the time a story is FINISHED, that is totally shot, it still takes at least 6 months of research and production process to get into the magazine…even now, we still must get final approval from Natgeo Editor Chris Johns to move forward on Rio…our survey trip just now was mostly to see if we could even work in Rio, come up with themes etc…rumors suggested that maybe we could not work for a variety of security issues etc etc…i will know in about 10 days or so if we will move forward with this story…fingers crossed….
cheers, david
Since this posted at the bottom of the last page I am reposting…..
The British Journal of Photography is reporting that photojournalist Dennis Stock has died. And according to Amateur Photographer (UK):
“A source close to the American-born photographer has confirmed news of his death to Amateur Photographer magazine.
The New York office of the photographer’s agency, Magnum Photos, is due to make a formal announcement on his death this afternoon.”
Pete? what?
Dennis Stock is dead?
im searching everywhere..cant find it?
let me search again…
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=872625
ohh..i see…sorry
Fun stuff, Panos. You have no idea how much your little essays make me miss Europe. In small town America the young women cut themselves in the morning then smoke meth all day and night. Not all of them, of course, but many more than most people suspect. And the better socialized kids don’t have all that much fun. Nose to the grindstone, you know, knees to the pews, gotta be successful, get in that school, pay off those student loans, then all those other loans, medical bills, etc.
How’d I get off on that tangent? Anyway, since I did, and I meant to show this awhile back when Ross or somebody was asking about what the youth were up to these days, here’s another of my daughter’s videos. She made it a couple years ago when she was a sophomore in high school (I only helped with interviewing strategy). The technical quality is not good but the content is very powerful. It takes a bit of patience at first, but if you follow it through to the end, it’ll probably make you cry.
http://www.mwebphoto.com/videos/window.mp4
Dennis Stock USA. California. 1968.
Venice Beach Rock Festival.
This image is taken from Dennis Stock’s remarkable 99 black-and-white photographs, which are the result of the author’s travels through the unique state of California during the1960s. Traversing the state from Sacramento to San Diego, Stock says of this collection, “Even though I found the sun and fog, sand and Sierras which conveyed a firm image of stark reality, the mother vision of life, the state seemed unreal. The people were conducting layers and dimensions of life that unsettled me. Surrealism was everywhere, the juxtapositions of relative levels of reality projected chaos. For the young man with traditional concerns for a spiritual and aesthetic order, California seemed too unreal. I ran.” This classic photo essay on California captures the contrasts of the state and its people, from the mountains of the Sierras to the sands of the coast, from the people on a spiritual quest to those doing research at the cutting-edge of technology, all during time of intense political, cultural, and social exploration in America’s history.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/magnum-exhibition-has-a-taste-for-life-1681550.html?action=Popup&ino=3
Michael..thank u..
but …i feel very emotional right now…
Dennis Stock/dead/venice beach…
sad
sad
sad
i wish i wouldnt have internet connection today…
Sad news.
right as i was spreading Masaaki’s ashes into the James River yesterday, i received a call saying Dennis Stock was gone…Dennis’ death was expected soon, but this does not take away from the loss…Dennis was a good friend of mine…
please also drop whatever you are doing and send some money to one of the relief efforts for Haiti…this is a tragedy of great magnitude….the U.S. must now make up for the Katrina debacle and really show what we can do…i mean an ALL OUT EFFORT to aid Haiti…
i need some good news…
One way to donate $$ to aid Haiti: the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies
http://www.ifrc.org/
U.S. State Department
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called the earthquake a “catastrophic” event Monday and said the United States “will be providing both civilian and military disaster relief and humanitarian assistance.”
In a blog post on the U.S. State Department Web site, Clinton’s Chief of Staff Cheryl Mills called for those wanting to help to donate $10 by texting “HAITI” to “90999.” The $10 donation will go automatically to the Red Cross “to help with relief efforts” and will be charged directly to your cell phone bill, the Web site said.
ALL..PLEASE CALL 90999, TEXT HAITI…
American civilianS………..PLEASE HELP TAHITI…
just for the record..i tried to type this number from the
motherfucking Balkans….and of course..:NO Connection…
ahhhhhhhh
ABCNews.com > GMA
How You Can Help the Earthquake Victims
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/haiti-earthquake-victims/story?id=9547030
Sorry, timing was bad. Condolences for those who knew Dennis Stock. And the Haiti quake is horrible. A lot of people from there where I live and work, I’m sure I’ll be seeing some of the fallout firsthand.
Looks like it’s going to be very grim:
France’s foreign minister says it appears the United Nations mission chief in Haiti was killed in the quake. Many UN employees are unaccounted for after the U.N. peacekeeping mission’s five-story headquarters collapsed.
BURNIANS…Universe…
no time…RED CROSS in Greece is working overtime…PANOS drop me an e-mail
NOW…
we are working over time…sending help to Haiti…need any kind of help…
no time…
DENNIS STOCK …I will be back…it seems that lately … even my SPACECOWBOY is working
overtime…
PLEASE, SAY THANK YOU AND I LOVE YOU …
From the NPR blog:
Many of us are looking for ways to help the people of Haiti, even from far away. Here are some resources:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/01/haiti_earthquake_how_to_help_a.html?sc=fb&cc=fp
**********************************
DAH, (i need some good news…) a tiny bit of celebration, http://societymatters.org/2010/01/13/happy-birthday-ngs/
The National Geographic Society turns 122 years old today.
January 13, 1888: Thirty-three explorers and scientists gathered at the Cosmos Club in Washington, DC, to organize “a society for the increase and diffusion of geographic knowledge.”
A write up on Photo-Dialogue about the dark light of this nothing and burn:
http://www.photo-dialogue.com/home/2010/1/12/erica-mcdonald-images-and-words-updated.html
DAH:
It would seem you are living the life: last week in Rio shooting, this week chilling with Koudelka and Shore. You are my inspiration–living life at the highest levels. I appreciate your photos and your work within the medium–Burn, mentoring, so much. You are the bar I judge everything by David. If I could be 65 and be where you are I would count myself very lucky.
Bests,
Davin
terribly saddening news about dennis stock..
thoughts for those he called a friend.
David
Thankyou for sharing your gift from Masaaki,
“Watching the ashes sink slowly into the water and quickly flow away emphasized the brevity of our time.NOW is the time to do what you do.”
DAH – My condolences for your personal loss of your friends Masaaki and Dennis Stock.
Patricia, Panos and emcd – Thank you for the links. I hope all who can will help the people of Haiti.
“i need some good news…”
This has indeed been a sad start for 2010…
I hope we truly have learned from Katrina…
it’s occasionally said bad things happen in threes… Hopefully that’s true.
Sorry for your Losses David.
I couldn’t help myself – I made some quick side by side photos by our current essayist david degner and by rene burri..you have to look at them in ‘all sizes’ large to really see, I made 6 comparisons. I am really taken by what i see as a resonance between the two photographers.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elmphotography/sets/72157623080815505/
Hi David…
Just wanted to let you know I’ve been loading up more images to the web space I have at photoshelter since I paid for a basic account with them. Not even started really even though I’ve put up 10 or so new gallery’s. Not even started on my main theme of Indian festivals which I must have 20 odd festivals’ documented. This is the work I want you to see but its going to take so long just to get it all scanned. At least I’m get images up there now with 20 odd gallery’s which are largely from some old neg’s I found and wanted to get scanned. When you’ve got box’s of neg’s, both colour and B/W, and folders of slides, its just so hard to get organized. Bits and piece’s all over the place.
Just wanted you to know I’ve been working hard at getting something presentable to show you..
Hopefully can speak soon.
Peter.
One more excellent group that is working hard in Haiti: Medicins Sans Frontieres/Doctors Without Borders
https://donate.doctorswithoutborders.org/SSLPage.aspx?pid=197&hbc=1&source=ADR1001E1D01
Denis Stock is gone
Port-au-Prince lies in rubble
Earth groans and stars cry
‘earth
groans
and
stars
cry……’
**
I keep thinking of Maggies images from Haiti….
I feel it too…..
**
prayers
to
all…..
xox
***
DAVID,
I have an question for you.
I know we live in a world where “projects” and theme are more important than just photography, and BURN may to be a platform for presentation for young “emerging” photographers. But I just wonder there is any chance to be published just series of travel or street or portrait photography WITHOUT a project. Just pure photography, let say joy of photography.
I am asking because Burn have published some excellent essays and some which seems to be “stretched” for “project” for “presentation” on Burn only.
Lets look at Magnum website… I see many essays just called “Morocco” or “Thailand” even some parts of portfolios are “just” street photography or “just” documentary photography and they have short caption ” street scene, London”.
I know that to come in to this “business” young photographer have to close their photography in one box, in one piece of work but I have impression that there is some chase to “projects”, that without a project there is no photography.
Ok, this question is; Is BURN a magazine for projects only or there is any chance to see some travel, street or random photography?
Peter,
For bulk scanning, I haven’t used them myself but there seem to be good reports on these guys. http://35mm-slidescan.jaincotech.com/ They seem to have a US office.
It might seem a bit intimidating sending the originals off, but it seems to work.
Ian
If you are an “emerging” photographer and hope to be discovered and become rich and famous by posting your stuff on Internet forums, then of course you want to publish essays. Being published on Burn just might be your ticket to a high paying job as a PJ, after all. But I do wish there were more single photos published here. It’s more likely a photographer in the real world would get a single photo published somewhere, than a 30 page spread in NatGeo. You would think everyone publishing here is shooting for a book, from which they will derive no profit.
David.
If I was religious I’d be on my knees now, but second to that only leaves us humans. So I hope rather than pray, that leaders such as Obama, who has an incredible political intuition, and Clinton, who also comes with such high cred, surely must give us the optimism that the US will be the saviour, and get something moving for those too many loved ones needing logistical help. Its all to horrifying to think about. Hell on earth.
They need tremendous help over there. But I wish Obama, before committing massive military (which we don’t have) and financial (which we don’t have) aid to them would ask the opinion of those (and their great-great grandchildren) who are going to pay the bill. I absolutely encourage individuals to donate for these folks who desperately need our help. But the US government has no money – zilch, zero, none – to send to anyone.
If we don’t have a massive military and don’t have any money to help anyone in need, it’s kind of interesting that we spent at least $685.1 billion on the military in 2009, which was more than the rest of the world combined? Seems like we’re not getting much for all that money. Funny how those who complain about any expenditure, no matter how piddling, for the poor, have no problem with billions thrown away as long as someone claims it’s for “defense.”
Regarding what the folks at burn should or shouldn’t publish, my position is that it’s entirely up to them. I will note, however, that not everything published here is a project and they seem open to pretty much anything, at least as long as it’s interesting on some level. But since the editors are working photojournalists who work on multi-photo assignments in distant (from their homes) parts of the world it’s hardly surprising that they publish a lot of photojournalistic essays from distant parts of the world. Although I, too, would like to see more color work, that sure as hell shouldn’t affect any editorial decision or any photographer’s decision on what to shoot. No doubt next month, or some time in the future for sure, I’ll be back in another phase where I’m sick of color and would prefer more black and white.
Hi everyone, I am more on FACEBOOK than here, while away, makes it easier to send stuff to everyone, friends (BURN and others), and family at once…
Pretty interesting afternoon I had yesterday in Pattaya, Thailand. I went to a faith healing ceremony and looking at that shot, I couldn’t help thinking of Patricia, because I think I caught that fall at about the same time (close enough) her self-timer caught her own, a while ago…. So, this one is dedicated to you, patricia… :-)
http://www.pbase.com/image/121086439/original
quiet place.
Does anyone else see the Rene Burri similarities?
I just realized you can view flickr sets as slideshows, the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elmphotography/sets/72157623080815505/show/with/4272956188/
For anyone out there near Zurich/Winterthur (Switzerland), there’s a quite extensive exhibition of Graciela Iturbide’s work:
http://www.fotomuseum.ch/index.php?id=21&L=1
It’s up until February, 7th. And well worth the visit.
HERVE
Great catch both by you and by the people who were there to help the one who was “slain in the spirit” at the faith healing in Pattaya. You are so obviously in your element in that part of the world. I’m so happy for you. Please keep checking in here every so often. Some of us non-Facebook folks still want to keep up with your doings.
CATHY
And it sounds like you are in your niche as well. Enjoy every minute and capture what you can by camera, but don’t worry, even if you miss the shot, it’s still with you forever.
“Often while traveling with a camera we arrive just as the sun slips over the horizon of a moment, too late to expose film, only time enough to expose our hearts.”…Minor White
hugs
Patricia
Regarding Jim’s and Michael’s comments about aid to Haiti, yes I’ve made my own personal donations to the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders, but more than individual donations are needed in such catastrophic conditions. Governments from across the world must offer whatever aid is needed both in the short-term and for the long haul. We are talking immediate rescue efforts, medical workers and supplies, bringing in and distributing water and food, providing shelter for the homeless, offering police protection of the vulnerable, restoring communications systems, cleaning up the debris, helping to reunite families and care for orphaned children…and then the long haul of rebuilding the infrastructure, homes, hospitals, schools and government offices. We cannot even imagine all that has to be done, and it will take more than individuals and groups to do it. This effort needs entire governments to work together to help our neighbors.
So I applaud my President for committing to help the people of Haiti in any way we can. To my way of thinking this is a better use of our military than fighting wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Let’s use our resources to help rather than harm.
Patricia
I apologize – Way off topic – This is a thought I had last night about Cloe’s Hasidic essay…
I’ve looked at her work on her website – much of which appears more engaged, she had more access to, she was “there” with her other subjects… The trouble for her essay about the Hasidics may lie in her subject and their beliefs… Jews, and especially the Hasidics have a large gender separation in their social life and faith. Women have a different roll in life than men. Women are not allowed to worship in the same space as the men, therefor they’re usually behind the walls, or curtains in a synagogue. Women are generally separated from the men in festivities as well – often celebrating out of the public eye or behind a fence. While the men dance before them as the women watch… Subsequently, in my own experience with the Jews, I found it very difficult to photograph the women while in New York, but was easily accepted in with the men. To the point I was eating, drinking, and partying with them, on occasion I was given a Yarmulke or a Kippot so I was able to enter the synagogue or Rabbi’s house and be one with them… I think it would be a great achievement for Cloe to break through that barrier and have the same experience I had with the men. Cloe – please continue one this project and get to know a family and a Rabbi or two… then you may have an experience you won’t soon forget.
Erica – I get it. Many thanks for the interesting side-by-sides and keep sharing your erudition this way.
Hear hear to Patricia & DAH about Haiti.
Michael, the US is trillions of dollars in debt. We are broke. We have no money. So, do we just borrow a few billion more from China to send to Haiti?
“But I wish Obama, before committing massive military (which we don’t have) and financial (which we don’t have) aid to them would ask the opinion of those (and their great-great grandchildren) who are going to pay the bill.”
My god, speechless. To even think twice or hesitate is … unthinkable. Do we live in the same country?
Geez Jim; that’s pretty cold hearted….
“I wish Obama, before committing massive military (which we don’t have) and financial (which we don’t have) aid to them would ask the opinion of those (and their great-great grandchildren) who are going to pay the bill. I absolutely encourage individuals to donate for these folks who desperately need our help. But the US government has no money – zilch, zero, none – to send to anyone.”
You are right, Jim, and yet the US government continues to have the capability to inject on-the-ground help and financial aid in a way that no other nation in the world can do. And Haiti is our neighbor – just across the street. I say we have a moral obligation to do so and as one of those who will pay the bill, I say do it. I can’t speak for my descendants, but I am 100 percent that the adults among them agree.
“My god, speechless. To even think twice or hesitate is … unthinkable. Do we live in the same country?”
Do you know how many old folks in this country live on one meal a day and die because they can’t afford the medicine that will keep them alive? Do you understand how many children have no health insurance coverage? What is unthinkable is that we would send a penny anywhere while our own people suffer. It seems easier for folks to love the world than to love their own neighbors.
Hypocrisy of the very worst kind.
I think what Jim is saying something of this nature …..would you take a loan out to fix your neighbour’s house due to a fire.
DAH,
Just catching up on a couple weeks of post from RIO…it was almost like being there! The thrill of the ride – Thanks for sharing! Hope to catch up soon.
Cheers, Jeremy
No Imnants… The analogy is more like, ‘would you hesitate, having just bought a new pair of boots, to fuck around taking them off while a kid was drowning in the river before you dove in to save them’
I doubt if that is Jim’s intent
I guess for me what is unthinkable is seeing “my” countrymen/women as more worthy of help than “their” countrymen/women. As if we are different species. Just because I see it as my country’s imperative to help our neighbors in Haiti does not mean that I don’t feel we are just as responsible to help our neighbors here at home. One does not preclude the other; this is not an either/or situation, but a both/and one. People are people wherever they live. And we in the US still have and use way more than our fair share of the world’s resources; this is the time to share whatever we can. To compare even our most poverty-stricken citizens with the people in Haiti is ludicrous. The Haitians now have NOTHING!!! Nothing but grief.
Patricia
Jim, I am one of those Americans who has recently lost his health insurance – and I NEED IT – because my insurance company jacked up my already Cadillac premiums for clunker benefits by 20 percent overnight and my income as an always struggling freelance photographer just can’t cover it. So I am without Health Insurance – and am very disappointed in my how government has responded to this and other domestic problems.
But I still am donating to Haitian relief and still I want my US government to pitch in the max amount possible and do what it can to help that stricken nation.
This is not hypocrisy – it is human compassion in the face of dire emergency.
Jim, you are sick. Only a sick person could feel no empathy, or sympathy for people who lost everything. Your country is overflowing with excess. I’m a free market capitalist sort of guy so I don’t begrudge the success the US has had, but your attitude is sick. It borders on sociopathic, or perhaps simply redneck and ignorant. You are after all from Hickville TX. Once again, it is not a choice between this or the other, there is enough money and resources to spare some for people who are suffering elsewhere.
Rafal
I am betting there are many compassionate souls from Hickville, Texas who are pitching in to help the Haitians. Fortunately, Jim speaks for Jim, period.
and hey, how are you anyway, Rafal? Good to see you around..Happy New Year to you :)))
Best
Kathleen
Im ok, just very busy. Finishing my semester at grad school and busy at home. No time for anything at all, including photography.
So, let’s see the US government borrow a few billion to buy our old folks medicine. Whatever amount they send to Haiti, they can spend in the US. Right now, they are choosing to do one, rather than the other. They have valued the lives of the people in Haiti more than the lives of their own people. The “excess” you talk about isn’t getting to the people here who need it.
Also, Hickville TX is really meant more as a metaphor for a mental mode, not a physical location.Just writing about Jim has stolen 5 minutes of my life, and this is why i would prefer never to see his name on my computer screen again. So I minimize it as much as possible.
good morning yall…3;30 am here
just like the good ol days..
good afternoon america..:)
let me open a beer and join u:)
Rafal,Kat,Jim,Frost…
long time no see…:)))))))
Jim’s point is pretty simple, why is there no over riding sympathy for one’s own destitute?
“Do you know how many old folks in this country live on one meal a day and die because they can’t afford the medicine that will keep them alive? Do you understand how many children have no health insurance coverage? What is unthinkable is that we would send a penny anywhere while our own people suffer. It seems easier for folks to love the world than to love their own neighbors.”
The world is ours. We are the people of Earth. And photographicly speaking, we the people of Earth are “The Family of Man.”
We govern our selves to provide safety and some form of security to the people at large from the people at large. When the people governing cannot provide this for those they govern then it is for those people to decide on a new leadership. People NEED to be lead. If left to their own devices, the world would be utter chaos – a riot. Who in a riot acts morally right, honest and has good intent?
We as a country, although often under much scrutiny, has a successful and peaceful government for its people. Our Haitian neighbors have not figured out what works for them.
Think of this on a personal level – as individuals. Think of the USA as one entity. Haiti another. Haiti is a person in need, she has been in trouble for a while with drugs, violence, and has made plenty of bad decisions. But was it her choice to be this way? Is she no different than a stripper trying to feed her children?
Though she may not go about it the best way, it’s the only way she knows and she understands.
The USA – acting as a good friend or relative should, sees her trouble, and is offering her refuge and rescue.
As one might give a few dollars to a man with no home on the street, or hand out food on Thanksgiving or Christmas day at a shelter to those who are hungry and not too proud to come eat…
The world has 200+ families called countries and nations – all related to one another. All of them cousins, brothers and sisters.
We do offer help to those in this country that need help. Some slip through the cracks. No solution is perfect or infallible.
Haiti, simply cannot afford, or comprehend how to begin supporting her family without being harmful to herself and her children.
We need to stop thinking selfishly and think about the greater good.
The Earthquake – devastating for Haiti, but perhaps the wake up call needed so that she might clean up… As the stripper might clean up and learn of a better way to support her family. With the assistance of many countries, not just the US, Haiti may come out of this a stronger, smarter, family with a better structured life.
No, Jim is not just speaking for himself. He is parroting right wing talking points. It’s not necessarily all his fault. Much of the country has internalized them. We’re constantly inundated with these fearsome messages. The U.S. is always broke. The U.S. is always in danger. Goldstein is always out to get us.
Fact is, though, we are still a very wealthy country and the problems are pretty much all related to seriously messed up priorities resulting from the never-ending fear campaigns. Anyway, we can afford to help Haiti. It would be crazy not to.
Oh what a freaking crock, Jim. The excess is there. Do some people not get it? You are talking about a Utopia, Jim, where everyone would have access to wealth…that utopia had a name, communism, it failed. Go to any country in the world, Jim, there are people who don’t get access to wealth there too. Same in Korea, same in Europe, same in Canada. You will never create a situation where everyone has access to wealth because that kind of system doesn’t work. Capitalism doesn’t work like that, but it works. The problem is what you don’t see, and that isn’t that the government has no money, because it does. It isn’t even that it doesn’t distribute it to the most needy, because if it didn’t go to Haiti it wouldn’t go to the poor. The problem is much more fundamental. Its a choice YOU already made, Jim when you bought your huge ranch that you so love to talk about. Its about the distribution of wealth in the US. Its a choice: are you, and others, willing to give up your ranches, big cars and big homes so the poor can have more wealth? I doubt it, and guess what, you shouldn’t have to. But the decision to send money to Haiti has no effect either way on the poor in the US.
And if you think you don’t have excess, Jim, you are a fool of the highest order. From the thousands of cereal brands on the shelves, to your over sized homes and cars, to your pollution and resource use, to your own waistline Jim, open your eyes. Travel outside of the US and see other countries, and then tell me the US isn’t overflowing with excess. None of which I begrudge you, because it was earned. But eat the very least ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that the US has more of everything than any other country in the world. Crying about your financial woes is like the rich guy crying to the bum that he just lost 10 million on a poor investment. It comes across as crass and callous, as crass as you always do.
Jason, there is a health care debate going on in this country to provide some kind of basic health care to 40 million people who can’t afford it. The primary argument against it is that we can’t afford it. If we can’t afford it, then we can’t afford to send money to Haiti. It’s not that I’m unsympathetic. It’s just that we somehow justify sending billions and billions of dollars in aid to countries all over the world, but balk at taking care of our own. That’s wrong.
Rafal, I choose to personally help those in my own country who need help. That’s where my money goes first. There is plenty of need right here that is not being met to exhaust my resources. Your argument sounds very sophisticated, but there are real people suffering here who cannot get help.
Jim, The old folks in the US is an endless situation that occurs in all countries. Old folks will die! We all die! it’s the cold hard fact of life. But to let someone young and able die because of an unexpected accident is cruelty. Choosing the old over the young isn’t always right.
Since the old people are an ongoing disability to the US in general, it will take more than a trillion dollars Right now to fix them.. When they die off, new Old people fill their places and come in with the same and maybe new ailments. The money was spent on the last generation and isn’t available for the next shipment of old fogies… A bazillion jillion dollars today isn’t going to make a hill of beans’ difference for the future. What’s needed is not a single shot fix but a gradual, flow of care and cash. The government needs to learn how to invest it’s money and let the money work for them rather than going to the kids and pooling their money together to buy mommy some more medicine.
Our country’s finances are being run as though it’s in poverty. rationing out the dough when needed. There is no room for splurging and buying the happy meal – the kids will have to eat mush again this month.
So we will have to eat mush because our neighbor – as poor as WE are is worse off than us and needs some help. It’s worth it. Jim, It’s worth it.
Wow, Jason. Now THAT is cold.
i dont see why the disagreement here…
USA already sending help ( as per usual )…
but Jim is also making a point…
although it is a great thing ( humanistic help towards Haiti )..
..at the same time the homeless and the unemployed ( no health insurance etc )suffer at home..
and that is some sort of hypocrisy..”We” look good from the outside but not from the inside…
Although things are never that simple…im afraid
When I hear arguments such as Jim’s it seems to me society is becoming infantile. Its as if you look to the government to solve all your issues. The government can’t solve the one critical issue, only the people can. And as I said, the issue is the distribution of wealth which is not a result of government policies but your own actions as consumers and citizens. Seems to me there are some choices if we want all people to have a fair share wealth.
1. the government can take some of your wealth and redistribute it. It can take your ranch, sell it, buy you a smaller home and give the rest to the needy. What? You wouldn’t like that? Isn’t that what the far right nut bags are crying about with Obama? That he is a commie?
2. You can stop consuming at such high levels. The excess I’m talking about is seen everywhere. Big cars, big homes, big burgers, big steaks, big people. Whats the obesity rate now? Obesity comes from over consumption of food, resources. That’s a symptom of excess the US is suffering from now. The choice would be to stop consuming but you love your things.
If either one of those choices was made, in a generation you would have no poor! Are you as a nation prepared to make them? People always cry the US has no money, is broke. That’s a crock, the US is no more broke than any other Western nation. In fact much less so. The problem isn’t policy, its your society. Fix that. Until then Haitians deserve some help.
So Jason as you are not of the aged variety…….
The Khoi abstained from mourning…………. since among them it was established by law that sixty-year-olds should procure their own deaths with poison; that is to say, so that as lazy and idle people they would not consume the food necessary to keep the adolescents alive. For this reason almost everyone among them enjoyed youthfulness and so much was old age held in low esteem, that the preferred death ( F. Pomey, Libitina seu de funeribus
( trembling voice ) nobody should remove my leica from my property…
but ,
i wouldnt mind sharing my fries from my big mac combo..
( too many calories )
:)
Your time is up Mr David Alan Harvey…….
time to return to this state http://www.iamparanoid.net/
isolated spaceship
———————
i dont know why this came in my mind…
it must be the beer..but i cant escape the thought of an
“isolated spaceship”..
hmm who knows why???
laughing
i dont read History books anymore..
the way that i educate myself is through blockbuster movies…
According to the very accurate movie “300” ,the spartans used to kill the
babies with any kind of deformity or birth problems…
so im asking you venerable citizens of Athens..
shouldnt this be the answer to the problem of our healthcare system?
just a thought ( beer finally working )
:)
Jim,
It’s not as if WE (the US) have anything to do with Haiti’s crippling poverty. Maybe if we were a little nicer to our neighbors all the time, we wouldn’t need to jump in when something so horrible happens.
This we can’t help because we’re poor is joke, especially since we literally robbed virtually every nation in this hemisphere of their wealth and natural resources. Read a book Jim, or maybe just this article, kind of a cliffs notes for the lazy:
http://trueslant.com/allisonkilkenny/2010/01/13/us-debt-policies-left-haiti-vulnerable-to-catastrophe/
Jason, you might want to rethink your view of the older generation — or “old fogies” as you call them — as an “ongoing disability to the US.” Both DAH and I are over 65 so I guess that qualifies us as part of the problem, but maybe you exempt us because we are both still active contributors to society. What happens when/if we can no longer produce? Will that turn us into drains on society?
Jason, if you’re lucky you too will live long enough to be an “old fogie”!
Patricia
We all will die – some die old, cold and alone in the care of nurses, some will be sharp as tacks and bright as the sun until their untimely deaths at 95. Some will be young some will be middle aged and arteries full of goo. As I said – the people left to their own devices will be in utter chaos. Health care isn’t just buying pills and bandaids – but education and restoration the waistline in the US is enormous. and the food isn’t something to write home from camp about. The medicine is expensive because due to factors such as the sources of base material for medications are being depleted, the cost of research, the willingness of insurance to pay for and charge with an arm and a leg. Capitalism, Commercialism, Regulation of drugs and doctors. As the skill of a doctor increases he or she charges more for their special abilities. Rather than teaching them to many young aspiring doctors, which would increase the supply of such care thus driving down the cost – one would think. The demand would not change but the supply would.. and depending where on the curve we currently sit – Down is the likely path.
Drugs are competitive, and patented. forcing companies to find another way rather than teaming together to tackle a problem.. Throwing money into an insurance fund isn’t going to change these fundamental problems. if anything it’s going to stoke them to get worse. As one of these people without any insurance, I sure as hell can’t afford to be fined for not having it. Nor can I afford TO have it. Thank you but I don’t want some fat politician deciding whats best for me when I have the head I have on my shoulders. I am quite capable of deciding whats best for me and for my situation. Not so true with my neighbors, I would agree. Not everyone has the right mind to understand the situation and calculate the right solution for themselves.
I will not always be in poverty – I was doing quite well before I decided to go to school, although then I was working jobs that were temporary. Now jobs like that simply don’t exist and I chose education to get me out of such a future for my self.
I am not of the old type – but I’m not far from becoming one. when I get there, I won’t be relying on the pooled money of my brothers and sisters to get me by.. I will do it on my own accord making my own choices.
The old have many experiences and have a life time of knowledge – but it’s useless without the muscle of the young to make action on the advice of the wise.
Start Trek 2 and 3 ask that question – do the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few – or is there such a case when the needs of the few out weigh the needs of the many? I think we are faced with that question today. And Obama, I feel, even though I didn’t vote for the guy, is doing the right thing.
“..When the slaves fought for their independence in 1804, and won, the French punished them by demanding payment for damages (the equivalent of $21.7 billion in today’s dollars, or forty-four times Haiti’s current yearly budget, according to journalist Eduardo Galeano). Even as they began to pay that debt, France was the only country to recognize the newly independent Haiti, the country that transformed from a slave colony to an invisible, autonomous society. Yet, Haiti was never really free. No indebted country is ever free as debt takes the place of shackles.,,”
yes i knew the French did it..as always..
( i wonder what Herve has to say about all that..aha)
The Old World definitely started it, but we picked up on the game pretty quick… :)
It’s a JOKE to say we don’t OWE the Haitians our support.
“I am not of the old type – but I’m not far from becoming one. when I get there, I won’t be relying on the pooled money of my brothers and sisters to get me by.. I will do it on my own accord making my own choices.” you do rely on them as they are the ones who pay your way in life, they buy, they employ, they consume, they make what you need………..
Patricia – I was talking to Jim with terms Jim might understand… Patricia – I get excited everytime I find a grey hair sprouting out of my head or chest.
People are only as old as they want to be… You and David are both Exceptional examples of people younger than the calender says you are. your minds are sharp and you both will likely be contributors to society long after your passing.
By hindrance I mean those who collect social security, welfare, and or medicare because they’ve reached the age so they’re entitled to do so (and so they do.) Or because they have no living relatives left to look after them… Since the elderly seem to be the age depicted as the most needy in society, although in my eyes not necessarily the truth, they have become the scapegoat for the problem at hand. The government shouldn’t have to care for everyone, but for those who truly need the help – it should be available. I don’t want to be receiving a social security check when I get old unless I absolutely need one.
looking at it from a survival standpoint – the weak and leachy are the ones that lessen chances. But, if those able are strong minded and bodied enough – they should provide out of respect and love for those in need.
Jim, I’m pleased to hear that you are committed to helping Americans who need it, but sad to hear that your concern for your neighbor stops at the border…a manmade border at that. It makes me grateful that our president does not see things that way.
Patricia
Jared..lets leave it to the french…please..at least for now..
im swimming in a pool of debt right now..:)
“you do rely on them as they are the ones who pay your way in life, they buy, they employ, they consume, they make what you need………..”
as the entertainer feeds on the energy of the crowd to become even more entertaining it’s good to rely on society to hold it’s self together and rely on one another’s abilities as a team. But for an entertainer to walk on stage half asleep and hung over and expect the crowd to wake him up and get into his act would be as a person able to work, and able to contribute to society, laying in bed watching tv while waiting for his SS check to come so he can pay for his mac and cheese and continue to sit and do nothing all day. to sit and not care about his fellow people.
My plan is to continue to contribute and continue to give back as much as I take.. not just sit and take.
is Google still in china?
just checking ;)
Jason one accident can place you into that weak and leachy world that you so despise…….
one accident can place you into that weak and leachy world that you so despise…….
———————————————————————————-
now i feel kinda :
http://www.iamparanoid.net/
:)))))
Jason, you seem to think people become old and sick because they failed to make good choices. You are in for a real shock.
i love burn early in the mornings…5am here..
going to sleep..need to go athens tomorrow..
big Porn Festival this weekend..
who wants to miss something like that?
good night yall
;)
Jason, thanks for better explaining what you meant. As a second generation social worker, I see the so-called “benefits” given to the elders as earned rather than unearned. The social security payments that people can receive at 62 was withheld from their paychecks when they were young. This is $$ they have earned through hard work. And Medicare is one of our government’s best-run and most necessary programs. Very few elders on fixed incomes — and that includes almost all of us — could afford any kind of health insurance on their own. I personally feel there is very little fraudulent use of such benefits.
aPatricia
Patricia, David you are lucky David will let you live, Jim you may not be so lucky………. Panos that Jason guy is a threat to your free choice in life!
one accident can place you into that weak and leachy world that you so despise…….
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Imants ,im going to buy a helmet for my vespa first thing in the morning…
Imants you’re misreading me. in simplest terms – I don’t despise those in need – I despise those who use without giving back if they can. I’m all for helping Haiti. at the expense of helping those in the US. I think Haiti is in more need right now.
“Imants ,im going to buy a helmet for my vespa first thing in the morning”
Panos! you should be wearing one anytime you’re on a bike!
“Panos that Jason guy is a threat to your free choice in life!”
How so Imants? I’m no politician!
Jason, which account should the US government write the check? The national debt is:
$12,287,021,323,329.90
Where does the US government get the money to send to Haiti.
Patricia, I’ve met many people (even in my own family) receiving benefits that don’t need them. And I know of many who do need them and can’t get them because they don’t meet requirements due outdated policies.
Panos! you should be wearing one anytime you’re on a bike!
How so Imants? I’m no politician!……..see you are telling Panos how to live and taking a choice away
Well… Lets take a good look and see Jim.
When Clinton was in office, the debt dropped not because of any major payback option he exercised but due to the global economy’s view of the dollar as the most valuable currency during the 90’s. Thus the debt deflated and appeared smaller. the value of what was owed never changed. currency is one way of seeing the debt. the other is the value. Currency is mere paper and worthless metal plugs with faces on them. value is something else. How do you pay back such a debt?
“see you are telling Panos how to live and taking a choice away”
I did not take away his choice. I suggested he should be wearing one anytime he rides to protect his mellon and its contents so he may continue living a life worth living and continue speaking to us here in the event an accedent should occur.
He may chose to ride on the wild side and go without so he may feel the wind in his face and the bugs in his teeth. He may place more value in that instant than talking to us here.
no one can ever take away your free will. they can slow you from realizing it.
So, Jason. What happens when somebody calls in those markers? Do we just nuke ’em and declare “debt excused?”
You appear to be saying we should just pretend it doesn’t exist and acknowledge we have no intent to pay it back.
by helping the world – we pay back our debt to global society.
Back in the 1970’s I bought one of the best motorcycle helmets you could buy at the time. On the outside of the shipping box was stamped, “Fragile as Eggs.”
Jason, I’m afraid that’s utopian nonsense.
They have valued the lives of the people in Haiti more than the lives of their own people.
——————————-
Who are “they”, Jim?
Haitians do not have 1% of the workings of democracy we have in this country (USA, not Thailand…), the misery we have in the US, which pales in comparison to hundred of millions around the world, is there exactly because we as a people do not care enough for our own (and basically, if you don’t care for Haitians, i do not expect you to care that much, save for rethoric, for old folks. Either you care or you don’t).
Even when haitians, and cambodians, and Burmans, so many in Africa and else, care for their own, they are trampled by the mafias and gansters ruling over them. And when you check the history of why these mafias came and hold on to power, more than a few chances that we, the old folks loving westerners that we are, have not only a finger in it, but alas, a few stakes too, if not financial, geo-political.
Time to do to haitians what you di to Erica, Jim. A little help from a friend they did not know they have… Thanks in advance.
Placing undue influences on Panos you know he is susceptible to all sort of comments and takes them as gospel truth even if it is a mere throw away line.
Jason, I’m afraid that’s utopian nonsense……………ego meets utopia
Jim – I would liken it to being a poor, broke, son-of-a-bitch who has overspent his resources and you get in your car that you can’t buy the gas for and you are headed somewhere that you can actually make a buck but along the way you come upon a car crash and you are the first and only one there and you have EMT skills and a good first air kit and it is in your power to stop and help, to save a life that will be lost if you drive on, but doing so will mean that you will not make it to that job that will pay the income that you so sorely need.
What do you do? Drive on?
If there is any depth to your soul, you stop. You do what you can. You save that life, even though doing so will cost you. It is not a matter of whether or not you have excess. It is a matter of doing what you can, right at that moment. Then later, you try to figure out how to make up for it.
But you say, as a nation, we should drive on.
“first aid”
Panos; “im swimming in a pool of debt right now..:)”
Come over and swim in the deep end with me if you like…. We can take turns using my snorkel….
Ross – I don’t know how deep you are but I am getting my SCUBA certification this spring so maybe I can swim out by ya too :)
Jason; Pretty deep…. And I recently sold my wetsuit etc cos I needed some $$$$$’s!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ANNA BOYATZIS !!!
May you live long and happy …to be one old lady …drinking ouzo and enjoying a healthy, happy life
in some corner…somewhere in the universe…!!!
BURNIANS…
You are such a fine group of souls…
you are such a philosophers…
it’s because of you …that I get strength and inspirations to do what I do…
the pain is here and there
the struggle is here and there
BUT
I believe that we all …can do it…
There is black and white…But …why we don’t blend them …and make them… gray …???
There is no wrong or right…there is no winner or looser…here…
it’s what you and I choose to be…
we are nothing…BUT we are everything !!!
one day Up …the next day down…
One day BURNed…the next day BURNed ..again…hihihiiiiiiii
COME ON BURNIANS…keep challenging yourselves…keep emerging…keep it going…
WE live NOW…and WE can do Miracles…BURNing Miracles…
VIVA,VIVA,VIVA…and yes, JIM was the first to donate…sssssssssshhhhhhhhh:)))
http://costofwar.com/
thankfully help has been so fast in flowing that haiti is now having to slow down the arrival of planes because the airport is overwhelmed..
yesyes civilian.. the kindness of ONE
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8455020.stm
reading lightstalkers right now you´d think some photographers were trying to get access to an oversubscribed ski competition rather than a disaster area.. the feeding frenzy of haiti-help inc. is on.
¨wish i could go..¨
¨.. an NGO almost hung up on me!¨
it seems NGO´s are tired of being treated like travel agents for ¨holidays in hell¨
while snappers talk about flight routes as though for a holiday and BS apparently complains from POP that ´roaming´ is not working on his mobile, it´s clear as day that there is already a flow of visuals reaching the world..
just more mouths to feed..
this fascination for photographers, that to photograph suffering makes us more sincere… our own trials or others… while the very few snappers who will make a difference are already there and have already begun to do so, the egos and gatecrashers jockey for place on the PJ forums and aid planes alike.
if half the PJ´s looking to bloat their folios with corpses and break even on the trip instead donated their airfare it would make a real contribution..
and my fav post on LS right now –
¨if you really want to help, take a shovel and medical equipment¨
i get the feeling that for now haiti has enough M9´s to feed and shelter the masses.
Different take:
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/media-in-haiti
i missed that eva – thanks..
apologies for the rant.. just tired of our inward ways today..
50 – 100 000 could be dead and so we discuss our relative health care systems.. our travel plans to have a subject to photograph.. posture and preen our self-important-selves with opinions and judgments on blahblah.. how can so many snappers REALLY think they can help?
i´m as guilty as the next person… so here is my perspective.
and to jim and the money worriers..
in 1991 i happened to be 70km from the epicenter of a 6.1 earthquake in india which took between 3000 and 5000 lives and flattened 200 villages.. (see none of my photos at http://www.social-porn.wha)
the u.k. government reportedly donated 21 000 GBP.. less than 1/2 the cost of one of the prime ministers cars.
thinking relatively, if we have a seemingly endless cash-pool for colonial expansion, what is wrong with us if we don´t have an endless pool for natural disasters AND homeland health care?
how many photographers does it take to change a lightbulb?
50
1 to change it and 49 to say,
¨i could have done that¨
How much of this is true:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/what-the-mainstream-media_b_424126.html
Thank you, David B, for your rant. We needed it. How easy it is to think we’re being compassionate when in reality we are again looking at our own navels and settling in for yet another internet argument that goes nowhere and does no good at all. As CIVI says, “there is no winner or looser…here…” I would add that the people of Haiti deserve better from us, their neighbors.
Regarding the pj feeding frenzy you describe, it disgusts me. Instead I go to photogs who have a long history with Haiti, people who were there before Haiti was at the epicenter of the news, people like Maggie Steber:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/showcase-109/
Patricia
EVA
Thank you for posting that link to Bill Quigley’s article in Huffington Post. Unfortunately, everything he writes is true.
Back in 1992 I was somewhat connected to the struggle to reinstate Jean-Bertrand Aristide to his rightful role as duly elected President of Haiti. This was shortly after he had been arrested and flown out of the country in a US-supported coup. President Aristide was visiting his Haitian supporters in a tour of the US and came to Detroit where there was a large Haitian community. I was privileged to hear him speak and to meet him. For all the mainstream media’s parroting of our government’s lies about the man, I found him to be a truly intelligent, compassionate leader who was committed to bettering the lot of his people. But the fact that he did not want to play footsie with the US government and its self-promoting plans for the region put him on their shit list.
Trust me: never believe all you read in the mainstream news, especially from the US. Self interest clouds the issues. Thank god for the internet where, with a bit of digging, you can find enough different perspectives to begin to piece together the truth.
Patricia
Patricia, thank you, I’ve found quite a bit of interesting articles there, but not being an US citizen, nor living there, I don’t really know what mainstream within the US news looks like.
I tend to take news (whatever, and wherever I read them) with a grain of salt.. I like to look at all (or as much as possible) sides of the issue.. so Jim’s and Jason’s comments were very welcome, they made me search for more.
Eva…
if you never watched the news on FOX channel..
then consider yourself one Lucky human being…
( thats mainstream media at its “best” )
Regarding why the United States should do anything for anybody before we provide health care for our own people, the short answer is because we can do the former but we can’t do the latter.
Note that advanced countries spend roughly half of what the United States spends for health care and get better results. So real world experience demonstrates decisively that we can easily afford high quality universal health care. It would, in fact save us a a ridiculous amount of money. In 2007, the U.S. spent $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7439 per person. I know for a fact that our company’s bill went up 23 percent this year so I’m sure it’s a lot more now. Anyway, a savings of well over $1 trillion isn’t chump change.
So you see, Jim, the reason we don’t have great universal health care is not because we can’t afford it. It’s because it would cut into the obscene profits extracted by our oligarchy. Until the United States gets a better democracy, it’s simply not possible to implement a rational national health care policy.
Helping Haiti, on the other hand, does not threaten anyone’s, at least not anyone who matters, profits, so it is easily doable.
Rafal:
Wow, was this ever true!
¨2. You can stop consuming at such high levels. The excess I’m talking about is seen everywhere. Big cars, big homes, big burgers, big steaks, big people. Whats the obesity rate now? Obesity comes from over consumption of food, resources. That’s a symptom of excess the US is suffering from now. The choice would be to stop consuming but you love your things.¨
yes, i can imagine you are super busy..good luck with the grad school course, i´m so happy that you are pursuing this degree. That´s wonderful!
CIVI
It´s true what you said..i have read all the posts and found something to agree with in every one. Jim´s, Inmants, Patricia´s, Jason´s, David B., Michael W., Panos, everyone. It all blended into gray for me. Everyone has thought through their positions. Some are very rough and provocative, others are more conciliatory. But all made good points. In the end, many, many countries will pitch in to help Haiti. I am proud of the USA for being there in such a huge way. There are many, many Haitians in the US working and contributing to this country´s well-being. They have lost family and friends in this terrible tragedy. Haiti has suffered under French rule and then under terrible dictatorships that looted its resources. Haven´t their people suffered enough? How could anyone sit by, nursing a beer and watching the coverage on TV and not feel their hearts wrenched by the reality of this suffering? It is a terrible thing. Bless every country and every pair of hands and every shovel and every dollar, every franc, every peso, every yen, every euro, etc, etc, that´s being thrown into the pile to try to alleviate what these people are going through.
Best to all..thanks so much for taking the time to contribute here. It´s really been fascinating to read through all your posts..
Kathleen
running once around the town center in your underpants could trim the waistline and raise money.
http://www.justgiving.co.uk/slim-beaver
re: healthcare, our elders
a close friend has been working with WITNESS on a campaign against elder abuse (http://elderjusticenow.org/) and it seems that the House will likely decide by Monday whether they will be including the Elder Justice Act in Health Care Reform. if you want to encourage your representative to support this Act, see http://elderjusticenow.org/take-action/urge-congress-to-pass-the-elder-justice-act/
**********
If the needle doesn’t pass, the thread doesn’t follow. – African proverb
Hello All
Along with several other people over on flickr, I am auctioning a print to raise money for the Red Cross Haiti Earthquake fund; I’m auctioning a 20×24 archival lambda print made by master printer John Cleur at Argento, London. Please have a look and consider bidding here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bedlam/4276559672/
Also – please visit the group and see if there are other photographs that take your fancy and consider bidding to raise money.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/charityprintauctions/pool/
thanks
Ben
I just heard Fox referred to as the Fixed News Channel. It made me smile.
Regarding helping Haiti,
Say what you will about flickr, but here’s a cool way to help the situation in Haiti. A group has been set up to auction off photography prints with all proceeds going to charities on the ground. It’s in its infancy, so please upload a picture and join.
If you’re like me and can only send a few bucks to Haiti, let someone in a better financial position send a bit more, you cover printing and postage of the print.
Here’s mine, with info to the group in the description.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jarediorio/4276667083/
Ha, Ben beat me to it.
Good thinking Ben and Jared, I’ll add mine to the mix –
I have put up a series of images on http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com, see PRINT SALE – Haiti Benefit in the menu.
One each of select silver gelatin custom archival prints available for a lower than usual price of $375.
Each image is printed on 11×14, and is sold as an artist proof.
For each image sold over the next month I’ll send $150 for Haiti relief efforts. (I’d send more per print but I have already sent what I could and silver prints of this quality are quite costly to make.)
never let a human tragedy get in the way of a bit of self promotion. A simple link to the site would have done.
?? I don’t think any of us are trying to self promote with this – personally I do not feel I need to promote myself to burn dialogue readers, we pretty much are already on each other’s radars – and wouldn’t do so this way if I did.
Just add a print John, and quit trying to be so smart. All the self-promotion in the world couldn’t help me. :)
I think it’s a good model – though it was run differently, when Jen MacFarlane organized SPICE as a benefit to help rebuild after the 2005 tsunami, many contributed their photos, including David I believe, and a good deal of money was raised.
Hi all,
Aga and myself wanted to let everyone know that we have teamed up to offer commercial photography services in a reportage style from our base in Bucharest. We are available to do corporate work and ad campaigns anywhere.
Our new blog will showcase our recent work: http://luczakowskaellicson.blogspot.com/
ERICA..
yes, the print auction model does work…and i always contribute if and when i know about such constructive print auctions…good for you to do what you can…i am still trying to figure out the best way to help in addition to contributing to the Red Cross…we are having a Magnum meeting tomorrow to specifically decide how we can make a significant contribution…
Could we try to sell the prints that were up at the burn gallery / fotoweek? If you gave me an list of names, I could try to see who was willing to donate, and everyone would have a copy of their image to submit as far as creating an online listing – but this would create work for someone to ship and collect funds and all that. Possible or are we not ready?
Hi all,
Aga Luczakowska and myself wanted to let everyone know that we have teamed up to offer commercial photography services in a reportage style from our base in Bucharest. We are available to do corporate work and ad campaigns anywhere.
Our new blog will showcase our recent work: http://luczakowskaellicson.blogspot.com/
Erica, DAH
I would like to contribute some work if I may!
DAVID,
if it does make sense for us to do something as a burn community, I could always meet with Jen if you like, to discuss how she handled SPICE – I talked to her about it when it was happening, but have forgotten details – essentially am just brainstorming and am trying to say that if you decide you want to do something this way I’ll try to help however is needed /as much as am able.
Also, did you keep your same phone number? Can we talk this week about May 22 – June 13 (approx) or is it too early?
****
Jason :)
Has anyone noticed in NBC/MSNBC coverage of the aftermath in Hati how reporter Ann Curry is walking around with a Leica and what looks like a Tri-Elmar lens?! Is she a photographer herself??? You don’t usually see television reporters walking around with a Leica!
this will be quick (very quick)…
been running crazy this week trying to do some local coordination/fundraising/community support…just returned from dinner/meeting with some friends/colleagues in the photo/art community here in TO….we’re trying to organize fund raising via print donations and outreach….via galleries/schools(art schools)/private etc…so much we can all do, in whatever way you can…
so, if BURN wishes to raise funds too, count us in: marina and i will do what y’all need, if Burn desides to do print donation, please feel free to offer our prints no questions asked, .or if y’all need additional help, info/coordination help, drop me a line…dont hestitate….all help from all sectors is necessary now…
besides that, goes without saying but we all can do more than just donate $$ (please do so if you can to whatever agency you feel comfortable, but money and pictures aren’t the only way to reach out) and pics….haiti also needs ground work in your local communities: here in Toronto, that’s what many of us are also doing in addition, and the Haiti community is big here in Toronto and especially Montreal…local help is critical too, it goes, believe me…
phonebanks, food, resources, outreach…it’s all needed…do whatever you can…
DAH/anton/whoever, if u need help, i’ll try to check back in a few days….we’re behind whatever effort can be put together….
ok, gotta fly
stay safe all…
running
b
Count me in on donating my print that was part of the Burn Gallery show. Thanks for coming up with the idea and offering to help organize the effort, Erica.
Patricia
Hi all,
Thanks to DAH, David B, Frostfrog, Patricia and Vivek for the comments.
Patricia I will have to remind myself of your quote.
I’ve got only one hour every few days online so can’t keep up but have to share a funny experience last night….I’ve got to share the photo asap but in the meantime…I was out following a procession till 11pm that was a combination “Running of the bulls” (but not bulls, chariots carried on the shoulders of men) and Harvest festival. The streets were dark but I discovered a VERY PRIMITIVE lighting crew that I followed around. Thinking of DAH with his assistant in Rio and then seeing these guys gave me quite a chuckle. Looking forward to sharing my “lighting crew” with you! :))
Shot from 5am to 11pm yesterday. Wish this could go on forever but enjoying it for as long as it lasts.
WHAT NEXT??????
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/us/16tour.html?hp
I am not surprised… In a country where a private company can OWN the Martin Luther King speech “I had a dream” anything is possible. Looks like Cambodia…
rats.. sold out… now what?
“Has anyone noticed in NBC/MSNBC coverage of the aftermath in Hati how reporter Ann Curry is walking around with a Leica and what looks like a Tri-Elmar lens?! Is she a photographer herself???”
Yeah, she is walking around with the daily income of 7,000 Haitians around her neck. Nice.
Is it just me, or does anybody else feel uncomfortable and maybe sickened by the current media feeding frenzy on the Haiti earthquake tragedy?
They just look like a bunch of vultures circling. As for budding photojournalists discussing the merits of getting into the country like it was some exotic holiday destination, well it’s really just beyond my comprehension. The last straw was a reporter wearing a Leica like it was a piece of jewellery.
Bizarre just totally bizarre….
All,
about Haiti , photographers can help, too. i’ve just read this, from the International Committee of the Red Cross.
As rescue operations get underway in Haiti, one of the distressing questions facing rescue workers will be “How do we deal with the dead?”
(…)
. There is a widespread myth that dead bodies cause epidemics in a disaster. This is not the case; the bodies of people who have died in a disaster do not spread disease.
. It is essential to avoid hasty and uncoordinated disposal of bodies. This makes it impossible to identify them later and the victims become “missing persons.” If storage facilities are not available, temporary burial may be an option.
(…)
What should the authorities do with bodies?
. Collect bodies and either store them in refrigerated containers/dry ice, or bury them temporarily, to allow forensic investigation later.
. Take photographs and record descriptive information for each body.
. Attempt to identify each body.
read more, at http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/health-bodies-140110
um forte abraço para todos,
Carlos Filipe
Identifying bodies would be the least of the concern in Haiti. I suspect that will be the case for months or years.
When airfares to “exotic” destinations came within reach, the option of
entering the fray was born. Civil wars in Central America were in vogue
in the 70’s and 80’s. Young bucks could get some attention and perhaps
secure their future with a newspaper or magazine with such an adventure.
With the print media in such a shambles today I suspect some are working
on the same theory for on-line content. Too bad it will only amount to
stringer work. The flood of images will continue to keep the financial
returns low. Making a “name” now has to be a global effort. That can
be a mountain to climb.
Apropos of several recent threads, or maybe nothing — this, from Dennis Stock, quoted in his obit in the NY Times:
“The goal for the photographer is to be visually articulate. If the subject is in a suffering circumstance, it is all the more preferable to apply craft to the utmost. Call it art or not, we photographers should always try to pass on our observations with the utmost clarity.”
Patricia / all
let’s wait to hear if David thinks we are organized enough to do this…
PATRICIA…
similar tours have happened in Harlem and now in Rio as well…
PETESTREET..
does look ugly….but this is nothing new….i suppose there is a fine line between photographers feeling they should do something by going to Haiti now and by those simply trying to get some attention…without the press now in Haiti , the rest of us would not know anything…yet when the press does descend on any tragedy/event like this, as in the Indonesia psunami or Gulf War, the process can look surreal..i must say i tend to feel a little helpless at times like this..wish i could do something..i think all of us must take a deep breath and come up with ways to best aid… in this case Haiti..i do think that the very best work will be done on Haiti long after this is a news story….we will see…
ERICA…
sorry, i missed your suggestion for a print donation…certainly a good idea and i am trying to figure out how we can do it…or mostly when…perhaps the best way is to wait and see how many auctions are going to arise…there are already several….in other words, should we have our own or be part of a larger whole?? i have no doubt that many here will be willing to donate print sale proceeds to one charity or another for Haiti victims…and we should think of other possibilities as well…like long term projects…and i am thinking also inside documentation from the children…
comment under Adrián Arias’s essay…
“Is there no color in Costa Rica? Why shoot this in B&W?”
Is anywhere a country or place without color??? Please let me know if you know place without color. I would like to take some B&W pictures but I feel so confused… I don’t know where should I go.. this bloody color is everywhere, so how I can take B&W pictures here! please help…
MARCIN…
what is keeping you from shooting b&w?? you know i am shooting both b&w and color on families, but i might switch to all b&w….when i look at the strongest pictures, most are in b&w…
Photographers love to look at B&W photos.
DAH – Yes, I agree about the wait and figure out the how…
and, re: inside documentation, I think it is a great idea, and you probably already know about what Andy L. is trying to do?
The world looks so, well, common in color. And we are special.
David,
I am still teasing with Jim and his comment. :)
I agree most my pictures I like are B&W…. but… most my pictures I love are color. There is something magical in color pictures. Or maybe for me only.
beside I have watched something 2000 yours pictures and 2000 Webb’s last night and have to say, just love color photography… with “this COLOR”
you are amazing guys. And your life as well.
Marcin, I think there is a lot of pretentiousness among photographers. Carrying around creaky old Leicas and shooting B&W. Raises us above all those soccer moms and their 5D’s.
Regarding the print-sales idea, don’t you all forget something? In order for the gesture to have any meaning there is the requirement for someone to actually buy your prints, no? Let me ask you this then; how many prints did you sell last year? I only sold 3 in the whole 2009 and print-sales is something that I actually do.
So, even though it’s a nice thought I wouldn’t suggest to anyone in need for funding to hold their breath for the money from those auctions. Maybe Magnum can pull this off and a few other established organizations/individuals, but that’s pretty much it.
Sorry to piss on your parade… I know… that’s Jim’s job…
Thodoris, actually, people seem to like buying stuff while pretending to be helping out some cause. I mean, the same folks could just send the cash to an NGO to help these folks, but wouldn’t unless they get something in return. So folks will buy prints they wouldn’t normally, hang it on their wall and wallow in how caring and generous they are. Which is fine, the Haiti people get the help. The end justifies the means.
Thodoris – when you join forces there is lots of possibility – the aforementioned Spice benefit raised $30,000
Wow, just catching up on the comments. What a divergence of views from Jason’s ignorance and naivete to Jim’s outmoded imperialist dogma. Not long after Christmas and peace and joy to all seem to have gone out the window. Jim and Jason appear to be saying the same thing:
“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. … Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
Can we not agree to at least send our prayers (positive thoughts for the secular) and peace to those suffering in Haiti if not whatever resources we have to spare as individuals. Let us focus on the HUMAN suffering and endeavor to decrease it wherever it appears. So many issues I want to tackle from both Jason and Jim’s perspective but I’m afraid I would end up sounding just as ridiculous. I will leave it to Patricia as she seems to have the right touch and a balanced and informed view.
Frank
My amazing BURNIANS !!! My … TRUE and ONLY BURNIANS…
We are all Citizens of the word…!!!
LOVE …PEACE…and PHOTOGRAPHY !!!
P.S I haven’t read any comments yet…busy …Red Busy…I will be back
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
WORLDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Frank, my continuing theme is that the US, nor any other government, can take care of the population of the world. The US response is cynical. There are 20 million aids orphans in Africa alone. They have no hope, they have no future, their needs exceed any possible response we could make. But where is the 24/7 news coverage and tens of thousands of photos of that catastrophe? Where is the massive, immediate and sustained financial response to that disaster?
Haiti is immediate, it’s in the news, and touches the heartstrings. Governments around the world can make a showing of their great compassion for their fellow man, and everyone is going to see and read about that response on TV. Instantly. How could US citizens be so cold hearted as to protest?
The US shafted their own people during Katrina, so they are never going to let the world see their seedy side again.
Hi Jim,
I would tend to agree with you with regard to our perception that governments can solve our/the worlds problems. The US is using Haiti as a public relations exercise. The US bail-out of the banks cost close to a trillion dollars so I don’t really believe that the worlds problems are beyond any possible hope. If that amount of money would be spent on reducing the suffering of the world there wouldn’t be much for conflict PJs to take pictures of. It may seem like an oversimplified perspective and it same ways it is. I just don’t believe it is a matter of availability of resources, more the distribution of those resources. I am not against the idea of working hard and earning money and enjoying the fruits of ones labor the issue is when in the richest country on earth 1% of the population control 99% of resources, and this 1% are in control of the “democracy”.
Everyone is so worried about Oboma being a socialist or communist when the US has become a Fascist state with the population mollified by ever increasing levels of consumerism. This social contract between the government and people is starting to lose its glue. When this falls apart the Homeland Security Act will be put in force for its intended purpose. To control homegrown dissent not foreign terrorists.
“The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. ”
— Franklin D. Roosevelt, “Message from the President of the United States Transmitting Recommendations Relative to the Strengthening and Enforcement of Anti-trust Laws
Maybe Jim’s right. Since we can’t solve every problem for all the people everywhere all the time, we should not attempt to help anyone anywhere anytime. That makes perfect sense. It’s as clear as an un-muddied lake. As clear as an azure sky of deepest summer.
BTW, there’s a word that describes countries where the great majority of the wealth and power is held by an unelected few and it’s not “democracy.” Thinking, thinking — oh, right. Oligarchy.
All,
Question out of topic; I am looking for more inspiration, do you know more photographers who use color in photography and work like David, Webb, Manos or Branco?
Any names?
wow, Miguel Rio Branco have a website!
have a look
http://www.miguelriobranco.com.br/
marcin
i have seen your pictures in the past, they are original and often strongly seen. don’t worry — find inspiration in yourself — keep shooting — let us see — you have it — i think you are shooting film — if you can, switch to digital so that all shooting is free, no scanning — so many others shoot in color beside harvey and webb — you have been through the magnum site, yes? and VII and http://blog.instituteartistmanagement.com/ and
http://reduxpictures.com/
etc etc etc etc etc
color black and white, worry less, shoot more
dq
MARCIN…JIM
why we are being pretentious because we like tri-x? …i cannot help it if i just like the look of tri-x..now Jim , i am curious…you usually ask on the b&w stories why they were not shot in color…at the same time, i know you love b&w most of all…???
dq
Thanks for links, Joshua Lutz is great. Shooting digital not work. Back to films. One film per month… well, will be fun. I need something to inspire, digital isn’t at all. Some of mine own photographs inspiring me to hard work but mostly David’s, Webb’s etc.
I see color in different way. I can’t explain it. Hard stuff.
THODORIS…
yes, you may be correct…however, it is much more likely someone will buy a print if they think the profit is going to a charity….besides, anything to lose?
DAVID,
I love tri-x. I could work only on it (and velias), but tri-x and D76 is too bloody expansive and rodinal not work proper way with 400tx.
But anyway, b&w photography have a power.
Well good photography have a power!!
David; “you usually ask on the b&w stories why they were not shot in color…at the same time, i know you love b&w most of all…???”
Some people just love playing devil’s advocate… :-)
Marcin; David alerted me to Miguel Rio Branco’s work a month or two back, I hadn’t heard of him before. Absolutely amazing stuff! I was looking at some images from Alex Webb’s Dislocations a while ago, pity I don’t want to sell both kidneys to buy the book!!
My sense is that B$W can only be so in film. If it’s shot digital then it’s still color that
has been tampered with(yes I shoot raw). I think this is why the notion of my personal project using CN400 seems so sensible to me. I have no interest in processing any more, but I want to shoot B$W. There just
seems to be something about knowing that the basic rendering is locked down.
I am not sure that I am disciplined enough to use digital as my medium for B$W. I’d always
wonder, what if… Just a thought.
Ross,
I have to buy two books firstly, “Venice beach” and “Hot Light/Half-Made”
I own a Nikon D3 with full frame lenses. Can anyone recommend an affordable alternative if I want to use the sames lenses and shoot more film. I used to love shooting Tri-X and developing in my home darkroom with my Leica. I tried to take it out recently but it ate my film. Would love to get a film Leica but can’t afford it right now. My dad has an MP4 but won’t let me borrow it ; (
Frank;
An FM2 or FM2n. I sold all mine bar one when I went digital. I can’t bear to sell the last one (the first FM2 I bought after selling my Pentax K1000), it’s old, beaten up but still works. Too many memories to sell for a hundred bucks!
Every now and then I dig it out, slap on the manual 35mm lens (couldn’t bear to part with that either) and remind myself what a good viewfinder is like (compared to D200/300) My tech talk finished… :-)
FMH, if you need an inexpensive film slr, I have one
a friend has asked me to sell. I planned to put it
on CL or the BAY, but I would much rather it go to
someone who will appreciate it. The owner intends
to donate the money to charity anyway. It’s a nice
under used item.
E-Mail me and I’ll fill you in. I want to respect
the BURN concept and would prefer to correspond
off forum for such things.
MARCIN,
Harry Gruyaert: Morocco, Lumieres Blanches, Made in Belgium… everything is on the Magnum site.
I do the majority of my photography on behalf of my dog Gu, due to his lack of dexterity in the paw department when it comes to wielding a camera.
David…
Definitely nothing to lose… it’s a noble attempt and I hope that people with money will respond… just felt like pointing out the obvious I guess…
Is the digital B&W really that bad? Can’t you use the channels in PhotoShop and make it look pretty much however you want? I’m not being argumentative. I’ve never given it a serious effort. I do see there seems something wrong with it doing just a straight conversion.
I have done quite a bit of digital black and white, but I just shoot it on one channel and then drop the color from that.
BW digital is not that bad at all. Have you seen these wonderful presentations by Todd Heisler at the NY TIMES? Can 5D, 35 1.4 and 50 1.4 (or 1.2?) :
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/1-in-8-million/index.html
The produced one of these per week, all of 2009. Pretty amazing.
MARCIN — sorry to hear that digital didn’t work. I’m sure you can survive shooting one roll per week but, in my mind, that may slow down your progress. Or, maybe you will be the interesting story of the photographer who made amazing work buy shooting very deliberately.
If you can find Alex Webbs Hot Light Half Made Worlds, that would be amazing. I think it is out of print and VERY expensive used.
Good luck
Imants; “due to his lack of dexterity in the paw department”
Sounds like a good reason for genetic modification…. You should try the possums instead; their hands are waaaay more dexterous…
Was staying at a friends place and one morning went out the backdoor and noticed that all the lemons on her mum’s lemon tree had been skinned, but still hanging on the tree. First we thought the neighbour had played a practical joke, but it turned out to be possums eating the skins!!!
Frank, get that Leica fixed! If you are in the US, I’ve got an FM2 I’m not using anymore that I would be glad to send you.
Sorry, typo. It’s an FE2, the aperture priority one.
funny…nobody asked me how i liked shooting with the M9 in Rio….worked with both the M9 and D700…but, then again , tech stuff not much a part of what we talk about here….must shoot video with stills this coming week on an ad shoot……still trying to determine best way…no doubt the look of the 5D great, but cannot find one single pro videographer who thinks i should use it on this job…all say camera too hard to handle particularly since i do not shoot video regularly…hmmmmm
JIM…
i shot many Natgeo stories with the FE2…before the M6 came out…FE2 was a great camera
FE2 is a great camera. When I shoot film with Nikon stuff (I’m a Canon digital guy), it’s with an F100 these days. Use it with manual lenses, though. Shot Nikons for many years, though, back in the day, so I have a few of them around still. Hate when cameras aren’t being used.
David; Is the D700 still functioning??
so you are shooting the vid yourself, DAH? no doubt the filmmaker in your family has an opinion? can you use a compact prosumer video cam like the canon vixia hf200 which shoots to SD cards? It’s an HD camera:
link: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=17994
the canon 5D is a pain in the next to shoot with, and you being a nikon/leica guy i don’t see how that would be a wise choice for a commercial shoot where you have to get it right.
oh, BTW, how was the M9 in Rio? :-)
can you entice us with just one or two shots from your trip?
and…
did you convince the NG eds to send you back there? i’d be surprised if it’s no…
Jim; I went from Pentax K1000, to Fm2/n’s and then straight to D200 (3 years ago). The last change was a pretty steep learning curve, I’d never used AF before!
Please don’t misunderstand, I came up with film, so my
POV is with B&W, color neg and transparency films. That
is just how things broke down back in film days.
How B&W is attained today is your choice. I really take
a shine to working within limits… something digital has in some
ways freed us from. The limits of film type no longer exist so
it’s something I think is worth considering.
It’s a great drill for me to know I’ve only got 24 or 36
chances to get things right before I reload. More time to
think and choose. We should all do that. Doing this has
made me better… at least to me.
Give good energy to our Haitian brethern.
Ross, I switched from Nikon to Canon when the EOS 1 came out. Nikon seemed determined at that time to hand with the old tech manual stuff and I was ready to move on. I’ve still got a couple of F’s, F3’s, the FE2 languishing in my gear cabinet though. I think there’s an old 8008S in there as well. Only use the F100 anymore.
Ross my dog’s b&w imaging is spot on so I am happy to help him out …….digital conversions no problems. David his take is that the leica is overrated.
Imants; You should get a dalmation, they are far more accurate at getting white whites and black blacks… :-)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ANNA BOYATZIS !!!
May you live long and happy …to be one old lady …drinking ouzo and enjoying a healthy, happy life in some corner…somewhere in the universe…!!!
*****
thank you, civi and patricia! :)
Thanks all for the suggestions. Thanks also for your offer Jim. I guess there is nothing wrong with shooting B&W in digital, I plan to do that as well. Sometimes though I find when shooting with film I slow down and I think a little more about what I am doing. When I went to digital I told myself that I would never shoot film again from an environmental and cost perspective, but something about t still draws me back. I guess I am still under the impression that to be taken seriously as a photographer these days you still have to have experience with film. I used to shoot a lot of Fuji Reala and Agfa Optima with a Canon Sure shot fixed lens when traveling. That camera was one of my favorites for a long time but I lost it backpacking in the Rainforest in Costa Rica. The idea of choosing your film before an assignment and determining the look ahead of time is now reversed with digital to some degree. Some day I think we will switch out our sensors and load new ones like we used to do with film.
David, how did you like the M9?
DAH:
Vincent Laforet has many gear suggestions about how to properly use the 5D. There are various housings for it that give it more weight and steadiness. Of course though if you need to shoot video they way you shoot stills then indeed the 5D is not the right camera for your ad shoot. But if you can mount it and are doing more staged photography then the 5D can work.
Imants; You should get a Dalmatian, they are far more accurate at getting white whites and black blacks……….nah no mid tones.
Imants; You’re so darned efficient over there; this is how we do things here…
Great I can see this working in your disco shooting…….. you may want to be wired yourself. Give the controls to a local kid.fun to be had by all
“Identifying bodies would be the least of the concern in Haiti. I suspect that will be the case for months or years.”
Jim’s comment above has stayed with me throughout the day. I think how I would feel if my husband Ed and I had been separated during a disaster like the earthquake that has devastated Haiti. Would identifying his body be the “least of my concerns,” even as I was trying to get care for my own wounds, water to drink, food to eat and some kind of shelter? Hardly. I would be doing everything I could to try to find out if he was alive or dead. I would never rest until I knew for certain one way or the other.
That’s why I agree with Carlos Filipe’s comment about how the thousands of photographers who are descending upon Haiti could best help by photographing the bodies for identification purposes. But these kinds of photographs will not win World Press Photo awards or advance anyone’s career; they would simply be a gift to the people who care. Just look at this link and see if it doesn’t break your heart:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/01/14/world/haiti-missing-people.html
Patricia
Imants; :-))
Patricia:
hear-hear!
Patricia, I think you misunderstood me. I am referring to the practical reality of trying to identify bodies when every resource has to be focused on keeping the living alive. You and I are wrapped in a web of identification from birth to death. Many people in very poor countries are not. A few family and friends get killed with you, and nobody knows you ever existed. Multiply that times 50,000 or 100,000 in Haiti, and I don’t think snapshots of dead bodies will really make much difference.
frank – if you´re thinking on using flash with film go for an f100 or f5 for a cheap compatible set up..
f100 has the same function essentially and is not too bulky.. the sb28 is a superb flash.. f5 is great if you need vertical hand hold..
i just sold an f5 body and sb28 on ebay – only got 200GBP.. bargain..
In the midst of wars and great catastrophes, the rules of polite society are forced to change. Ask all those photographers who are in Haiti exploiting the misery of a million people, for example.
The F100 is the way to go. The F5 is just too heavy. Great camera, just too dang heavy.
Ok Ross we will get Panos to operate the remote……
DAH please if you get the chance I’d also like to know about the M9 in Rio.
Federico,
I know Gruyaert’s works, he is really great. Thanks.
David my dog decided that he prefers a K9s to the m9 http://www.k9natural.co.nz/
The M9 certainly hasn’t generated the buzz the M8 did when it went on sale. I guess most folks see $7,000 cameras as beyond consideration, though.
dq
When i work with films i like looking for special conditions of light. It is like hunting. Then even family snapshot can be amazing.
http://marcinluczkowski.com/photonews/alex-urban-01.jpg
my d200 is not as sensitive for details and nuance of color as film
http://marcinluczkowski.com/photonews/0127.jpg
ps. Jim, I know this are crappy photos for you because improper white balance ;)
Jim if you feel so strongly about this,get out and photograph it and show us all rather than just antogonising everyone. Let us see some of your passion in pictures.
Ian
DAVID,
Yes, how yours impressions about work with m9 and did you get permission for publishing a few snaps from rio?
aitken, I don’t think we need anymore folks shooting photos of dead Haitians. That seems to be well covered.
cats have interesting lives
http://www.mr-lee-catcam.de/pe_catcam1.htm
DAVID/DAH
Hope you were able to pick up the package I’d FedExed to you at Magnum. It was to have been delivered on Thursday of last week. It contained a CD with a high res file of my print that you said someone wanted to buy. Let me know if there was any problem. Thanks!
Patricia
MARCIN
What an exquisite portrait!!!!!
http://marcinluczkowski.com/photonews/alex-urban-01.jpg
Patricia
Thank you Patricia :)
my best portraits are my wife portraits. But maybe best for me :)
What to say.. hat off:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/16/haiti.abandoned.patients/index.html
DAH, you wrote “funny…nobody asked me how i liked shooting with the M9 in Rio….” – I did. Talking about how the LCD on digital cameras can be less than helpful, I replied….
David, Jorge, Sidney, When I download photographs; digital or scanned negatives, I try to keep in mind that they are just that … negatives. They need to be developed, in my case in Lightroom. I also find the slideshow option in Lightroom invaluable for showing your finished photograph without distraction.
I also find it easy to be drawn to The One”: you know, the photograph that you just know is the special one on the entire roll or card. With film, especially scanned negative film, you have time to consider all of your photographs: you make a preview scan and then look at it in detail while making the full resolution scan. With RAW digital, you are confronted with an image that looks not to shabby, but you must remember that it is just a digital negative and is showing nowhere near its potential.
David, I’ve very-much enjoyed reading your thought processes during your current shoot – more please – particularly the background as to why you chose to work in the favela, HOW you found a contact and guide/introducer in the favella, whether you ever got the photograph of the boy with the pistol and if so how you managed to reveal him to us but conceal him to the police?? I know you speak Spanish but do you speak Portuguese? This kind of information is not tech stuff but, rather, an invaluable teaching resource for emerging photographers and what I hoped to see here on Burn from the outset – not just from you but from other established photographers of your acquaintance.
And have you tried out the M9 yet?
Mike.
PATRICIA – i read above where you fedex’d a cd to david, which now probably has to be looked after and sent or given to someone else for printing, and, given DAH’s nutty life (nutty in a good way) i bet that cd will end up at the bottom of a pile somewhere in the outer banks.
unsolicited advice: there is a website called YOUSENDIT.COM where you can email a file up to 100MB — actually, you upload it to them and they notify the recipient who downloads it. and it’s FREE. $0
so if david tells you who is printing the image, you could simply send that person the file. you can make a folder on your desktop (are you using a mac?) and put a bunch of big files in there, and then convert that to a .zip file. maybe you know about that already, sorry if i’ve assumed too much here…
regards
dq
Thanks, dq, for the great tip. No, I did not know about YOUSENDIT.COM but am on a Mac and use .zip files, so this would work. I know who will be printing it and assume my CD got to him, but if not I now know how to proceed. Thanks again…
Patricia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXTT9fmmDc&feature=related
Leonard Cohen – There Is A War (live 1985)
I will be back…
Jim, you obviously feel so strongly about not letting money out of the US and you have strong views about health/old people in the US go shoot that, to show us all what the issue is. I wasn’t suggesting you shoot Haiti.
ian
There are plenty of stories on old people who can’t afford medicine or health care. I don’t think we need any more. They haven’t fixed anything.
“We all boil at different degrees”
Ralph Waldo Emerson (American Poet, Lecturer and Essayist, 1803-1882)
P.S I LOVE YOU ALLLL
Civi
That´s just a great L. Cohen performance. i love the line ¨I was so easy to control I didn´t even know there was a war¨. How did he see into the future so well? Oh, right, because history repeats itself.
love
kathleen
Jim:
“There are plenty of stories on old people who can’t afford medicine or health care. I don’t think we need any more. They haven’t fixed anything.”
I tend to disagree with you.. without the coverage (of the Haiti disaster right now for example) there would be a lot less resources available. I agree that they wont fix everything, but they help. Key would be to prevent.. but also prevention can be done only if we know, if we’re informed, don’t you think?
DAH,
I hope all is good at the beach.
I hear you are comming down to visit the crow eaters in West Aus.
Seems like a good excuse for a cross country road trip !
South Australia for crow eaters.
Yeah, Yeah Sand Gropers. But who is going to understand that ?
Jim, have you ever travelled outside the U.S.A.?
Comon us upstart cockroaches will snicker when the gum suckers of Vic will ask which head in Tassie is doing the thinking just ask the local kiwi, no sand groper wants to eat crow even up the top end.
Excellent point. Well put.
But strewth!
How much can a koala bear?
“The M9 certainly hasn’t generated the buzz the M8 did when it went on sale. I guess most folks see $7,000 cameras as beyond consideration, though”.
Jim Powers: Interesting point. Since the M9 has solved the many issues with the M8 you would think there would have been more buzz, but in reality the M8.2, the corrected version of the M8, really is a great camera. The files are very film like and the camera operates pretty much like an M6 except for the fact that the on/off switch can be turned off too easily. I hear there is the same problem on the M9. I’ve missed a few shots actually because of this.
Hi all,
I wanted to let everyone know that I have teamed up with photographer Aga Luczakowska to offer corporate and advertising photography in a reportage style from our base here in Bucharest. Romania had the fastest growing economy in Europe between 2005-2008 and all sorts of investment is taking place here from IT outsourcing to the building of the new European Ford Motors plant. We will be working for international companies in Bucharest but are available for work anywhere:
http://www.luczakowskaellicson.com/
Davin
Good luck to you both :)
files are very film like…….cliche bullshit
best of luck DELLICSON.
my .02, and take it for what its worth: tweak your portfolio to show more corporate and overt advertising-y images, even if they are in a reportage style.
more sense of the place… if you are pursuing corporate, show commerce or business or something shiny :-) or grittily industrial, maybe a corporate portrait… that picnic shot for advertising — more enticing, please… the kid in the basement could be anywhere… the haypile is unique… look at some portfolios on workbook.com … look at elliott erwitt’s recent work for puerto rico… i realize that you’re offering reportage; i feel though that an art director would like to see work that feels like it’s more fun for advertising and more focused on commerce/business/industry for corporate…
feel free to disregard this entirely, thought i would just offer a point of view by a photographer (me) who does corporate and advertising work…
dq
………and then you will tell us that it tastes like chicken just like the the fox you ate last night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV2lN68pSIc
Just because I’m losing
Doesn’t mean I’m lost
Doesn’t mean I’ll stop
Doesn’t mean I will cross
Just because I’m hurting
Doesn’t mean I’m hurt
Doesn’t mean I didn’t get what I deserve
No better and no worse
I just got lost
Every river that I’ve tried to cross
And every door I ever tried was locked
Ooh-Oh, And I’m just waiting till the shine wears off…
You might be a big fish
In a little pond
Doesn’t mean you’ve won
‘Cause along may come
A bigger one
And you’ll be lost
Every river that you tried to cross
Every gun you ever held went off
Ooh-Oh, And I’m just waiting till the firing starts
Ooh-Oh, And I’m just waiting till the shine wears off
Ooh-Oh, And I’m just waiting till the shine wears off
Ooh-Oh, And I’m just waiting till the shine wears off
funny…nobody asked me how i liked shooting with the M9 in Rio…
—————————————————————–
easy answer : “perfect”
:))))))))
Since the M9 has solved the many issues with the M8 …
———————————————————
( issues are only with bad photogs not with great cameras imo )
the M8.2, the corrected version of the M8, really is a great camera.
———————————————————————-
(simply laughing out loud..or lol..)
the M8.2, the corrected version of the M8
—————————————–
still laughing…
….corrected… M8 overpriced by $1200 u meant…
AHHH…and a black dot..
:))))))
( there was nothing wrong with the M8 my friend…just marketing tricks..and obviously some folks bought it..
ohh i know …the sapphire glass lcd cover…jeee…and the lower speed from 1/8000 to 1/4000… what an upgrade!!!??? for $1200..)
the only problem the M8 had/has is the non full frame thingy…
forking an extra $1200 for a glass is simply retarded…
buy sunglasses instead..:) from GUCCI…same thing
big hug
for a glass
————
i meant to say LCD cover…
DQ:
Yes, understood. We are editing our portfolio now. I posted just to let people know we are live.
Panos: I got my M8.2 for $1000 off the sticker price without even asking last year. The incorrect frame lines on the M8 was a real issue.
Davin..:)
i like what u and Aga doing together..
Love above and beyond egos..
right on..bravo
:)
Imants: Hmm. . . ok. I have 40x50cm prints in my hand here from a 5D MKII and an M8.2 and the Canon files look much more plasticky. . . They simply do not look the same.
……… another myth or bad pp work, your choice.
Imants; “files are very film like…….cliche bullshit”
I just blew the dust off the D200 today. I haven’t used it much over the last 12 months; been shooting the D300 at night (which I admit is better at 1600 asa). But after looking at the D200 files I just reminded myself how lucky we are to have such quality gear now. You certainly can’t blame equipment (if you ever really could…)!
You mentioned letting Panos loose with the radio controlled me; I don’t need that amount of mischief in my life thank you! :-)
So David and Anton
I’m missing selected photographs. I you are just too busy I understand.
I love tech talk too, but it seems to be taking over. The best camera is the one you have in your hand at the moment.
Gordon; “The best camera is the one you have in your hand at the moment”
That’s what I was meaning; we’re spoiled by the quality available re the D200 etc. Have you seen the Tim Page doco “The Unseen War”, which talks to, (and shows the images) the North Vietnamese photographers (during the Vietnam War) Mostly all taken with Prakticas and 50mm lenses.
One photographer mentioned how he would develop his film outside on dark nights by running the film back and forth through developer & fixer in china tea cup saucers (which he carried specifically) and leave the film overnight to rinse in the stream.
FRANK:
Not sure which Sure Shot you lost but I have an original Sure Shot/Autoboy AF35M that you are welcome to. It’s the one with the 38mm/2.8 lens.
I picked it up at a thrift store about a year ago, replaced the light seals, and ran one roll through on vacation this past summer (it was my beach cam) but it’s just sitting on a shelf. If you would like it, shoot me an e-mail at: jmikelsmith [at} gmail.com
Ross
Someone once said something to the effect that not matter what kind of camera you have, it is a way better camera than you are a photographer.
Good photographers will make good photographs with whatever gear is at hand. Gearheads will keep themselves busy shooting test charts, brick walls, and sunsets with the latest stuff.
Gordon; Too true….
Ross
Having said all that, I love gear, and own waaay more than I need. It seems to go with the territory, especially if you are male. Women seem less likely to become entranced with hardware.
Entry level dslrs have become so good, and so in-expensive, that anyone with $1000 to spend has all they really need to earn a living if they have the skills. Hell, I dumb my 5d11 down to 10 megapixels just to keep file sizes manageable, and am still able to make awesome 24×30 in. prints. My first year of going full digital was with the original 6mp Rebel, which was and still is more than capable of professional results.
I still have a wish list. Boys and their toys.
i do think that the very best work will be done on Haiti long after this is a news story….we will see…
—————————————–
Absolutely, David, and would the real proof and extent of our true compassion.
I agree a lot with what Jim is saying, btw, except that no situation is that hopeless (probably a congenital defect of mine at birth), and that even the worse of crisis in Africa are not a foregone conclusion, no more than was the systematic exterminations of jews during WW2, or the torture and starvation of cambodians under Pol Pot, or genocides in Rwanda and Darfur. all this is just a confirmation we kive here on earth, not exactly heaven, but not a helpless hell as well. God or no God, we just have each other on this tini speck in the universe. Either it matters or not is one’s very individual choice.
Sorry, guys, I can’t discuss techie stuff on which cameras do what and for how much.
Maybe this IS a male thing, all this wanting more & better cameras. I must admit it doesn’t interest me in the least. As I’ve said before, I own two cameras, the most recent I bought back in October 2007. Nothing special, just a simple Canon 40D. I held a Leica in my hands during LOOK 3 in Charlottesville but when I learned it had no AF, that took care of that. My hands are too gimpy to deal with manual focus except with still lifes where I have all the time in the world. Besides I just don’t have that kind of money.
Sure hope we find something else to talk about soon ;=)
Patricia
hmmmnn how about http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28722
someone asked me ¨canon or nikon¨ recently, and the only true answer is both.
b&w or colour? both
film or digital? both
left eye or right eye?
run or walk?
willy or wonka?
yawn or stretch?
ross – it´s an interesting documentary .. part one is here ..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26lol_national-geographic-vietnams-unseen_news?from=rss
despite pages attitude during the war, which seemed more extreme sport than anything, his hard work since has been poignant..
and the North Vietnamese photographer said ” Death was everywhere, but I didn’t take pictures because I didn’t like it”…….
….
david b.
thanks for the link…
Jim your attitude is so defeatist. You often supply very good arguments on why you or other people shouldn’t do things and very few arguments on why people should do things. If the world thought like you no one would do anything. It is well now fact that everything has been done before.No ideas are original.
Shakespeare was well known for lifting ideas and lines from other sources reaching back as far as Plutarch. In parts I,II and III of Henry VI 4,144 out of 6,033 lines are taken verbatim or paraphrased from other authors. Did this stop him from becoming one of the greatest playwrites ever.
T.S. Eliot is quoted “immature poets imitate; mature poets steal”
As an ex literature student you will know there is a maximum number of basic plots available to an author which is generally considered to be 10 and more than likely only 5. Take for example JAWS which is essentially a rewrite of The Saxon narative Beowulf.
P.S. Just to prove my point, I must state that much of the above has been sourced/ paraphrased from a recent article in the guardian by Robert McCrum and is a homage to him.
Ian
Basically Jim, it’s all been done before so do it in your style with your vision and it might achieve something.
Just get out and shoot the story and show us where the money and resources should be spent in your opinion.
We hear plenty of your pomposity on camera gear and your experience as a photographer but have we seen any quality work from you? You have given us a link to a website with a few meagre offerings of photographs, where is the archive of the the man who has been a photographer for 30 years? Where is the skill and story telling ability of the editor?
Look forward to seeing some work.
All the best
ian
DAH get in touch with http://www.vincentlaforet.com if you want some help with stabilizing a DSLR with video. I’m sure he would be willing to share a few secrets. If you look on his blog it looks like he is bringing out some new items for stabilizing the cameras.
cheers
best of luck
Ian
Good morning everyone!
I have just uploaded some of my latest work – please let me know what you think!
It’s a group of three images, I’m cautious not to say triptych since I may continue this and add to them later.
The group is entitled the History of European Civilization.
Thank you!
http://www.jasonhouge.com/photography/EuroHistory/index.html
aitken, I’m a mediocre photographer, at best. Camera slinger. Camera for hire. I’m not sure how that invalidates my opinions, though.
Jason
Nice pictures, first one is great, but I don’t like sepias, just black and white and some gray work for me better.
Jason, is it me or are the three pictures rather smallish? Can’t make out what the 2nd shows…
Jim, I have said nothing about invalidating your opinion. All opinions are valid, even more so if they have firm evidence/proof behind them.
The issue you raised earlier re money going outside the US, convince me that what the US and other nations is doing wrong.
Here in the UK we have The National Health Service, free health for UK citizens. There are still huge issues with healthcare of the elderly, there are alot of stories breaking over here at the moment about the poor care of dementia patients, poor carehome standards, low salaries etc etc. (even with free healthcare there are issues)
Documentaries have been made, an ad campaign mobilized things are now changing. Positive result…..
Cheers
ian
Jason….big topic…when did civilisation start? Has it started?
Better ask CIVI what he thinks.
cheers
ian
when did civilisation start? ..some randy female got the hots for the only guy in existence, trouble he was mediocre at best. The rest is history
Is Civi a he? I’ve always felt Civi was a she. But I think Civi might say both to retain abiguity.
Eva, smallish? How big is your screen?! These images are limited to 1000px wide on my site… The figure in the second one fills most of the frame…
when did civilisation start?
In 1977 at day when I was born, i suppose :)
My initial reaction is “wow that’s amazing” and maybe the best hope for a new beginning!
What are your thoughts??
http://link.reuters.com/mat24h
Jason, don’t know what’s wrong here, but I’ve opened each image in a new window, that works..
Sorry Marcin you didn’t even made the history part as with most of us
Imanst
That’s details. Everything was begin in march 1977, sorry folks that the truth.
Alice believed the March hare…….
Jason, the images are too small for me to see any detail, even when enlarged by right clicking and choosing open in new window.
And someone said “all opinions are valid.” Ummmm, no. No they are not.
About gear, count me among the mostly indifferent. I liked the quote to the effect that real photographers use whatever while wankers continually take test shots with the most expensive crap available. Lot o’ truth to that, I suspect. Though I do note that the highest level professionals I’ve known spend whatever time necessary to master the idiosyncrasies of whatever gear they use and that’s the attitude I try to emulate. For paying job’s, it’s simply money. For more ambitious work , I consider it a moral necessity. We talk so much about that trust relationship between photographer and subject. Part of the understanding is that the photographer will produce very good photos. If they turn out to be crap because he or she didn’t know how to work the camera, that trust is broken.
Michael, Eva. I’ll see what I can do to fix it…
Oh, and Jason, regarding the content, I think three slides doesn’t quite do it for communicating the entire history of western Europe. Sure, a nun, a soldier and a book covers a lot of it (though a priest would be more significant), but you should probably consider throwing in an artist, a cook, and a scientist at the very least. Yep, it would take six slides minimum.
“For paying job’s, it’s simply money. For more ambitious work , I consider it a moral necessity.”
I’m always amused by the distinction between soulless paying jobs and more “ambitious” personal projects. You don’t think it a moral necessity to do your best work on a paying job?
Michael,
I stand corrected, the use of valid in the legal sense was not correct. I should have said “all opinions have a place”
Cheers
ian
“And someone said “all opinions are valid.” Ummmm, no. No they are not.”
Sure they are. Since non-photographers are encouraged to comment here, how is the quality of one’s own photos relevant to the quality of an opinion? There is no way, by definition, to judge an opinion as “valid” or not. You can disagree with it, but that does not address its validity.
aitken, so you are saying that opinions only have a place when they agree with the majority?
Absolutly not Jim, When have I suggested that. All opions have a place whether they be in the majority or minority, this does not make them valid though. This has no bearing on validity.
Ian
“valid opinion” is an oxymoron.
“You don’t think it a moral necessity to do your best work on a paying job?”
Jim
I always do my best if someone pay me for, but it is not mean that picture of breakfast in hotel room is my best work.
Beside you live in US when is biggest market for photography, and if you could live in Poland for a while you will see how huge difference is between pictures people can paid you and pictures you want do and nobody will paid even 1 zl. This is not my opinion but colleagues of mine who try to live with press or art photography.
I don’t expect I earn even 1 zloty for all pictures I have in my portfolio. For Americans it is always a business, you take pictures for money, I always hear “if you want make carrier in this business”. If you made a carrier in photography in Poland everyone know your name but if you not teach in school, or work for daily press or shooting food every morning your children have nothing to eat.
But you always can work for Americans like Tomaszewski, only what reason is to live in this country for?
good photography is overrated.
ok, no more complaints… life is beauty and I have 25 frames more.
You don’t think it a moral necessity to do your best work on a paying job?
Good point. Yes, I do. The comment was more aimed at the other side of the equation. I’ve noted two themes here at burn that can be contradictory. One is the argument that photographers have a moral responsibility to be honest with their subjects. The other is that the technical aspects of photography are not important. My position is that mastering the technical aspects of photography is part of the moral responsibility of being honest with the subjects.
Regarding my comment on the universal validity of opinions, it had nothing to do with the quality of one’s own work. I’m definitely on the “don’t have to be an artist to have good knowledge and intelligent opinions about art” side of the fence. And just to be clear, I’m not putting myself out there as an example of a good photographer, only as someone trying to be.
My dictionary defines “valid” as “sound, defensible, well-grounded.” So, ummm, no, not all opinions are sound, defensible, and well-grounded. Does anyone really think they are?
Marcin:
In Chile is no different. No body will buy your photographs just to hang them on the wall. Unfortunately that is still reserved for paintings. To make it simple, you can live here as a painter, make exhibitions and spec to sell them at the gallery. With photography, you have to have a day time job or work as a comercial photographer. It´s not so much a problem of poor economics, but something that has to do with the culture of photography and how underated is here. Still the goverment gives a lot of funds for photo projects, so that is the nice part.
Regards
Jorge
Jim,
“aitken, I’m a mediocre photographer, at best. Camera slinger. Camera for hire.” what did you just say about doing your best work when being paid?
Commercial projects have restraits, budgets, agendas which might not be what you would like to achieve with a personal project, that doesn’t stop you from doing dilligent work on a commercial project. Personal projects are personal, your only limitation is budget and time, you don’t have to answer to anyone else (editors,accountants, etc.) you are free to explore subjects that might go off on a tangent to the original idea of the project. If you are fortunate enough you might be able to combine the two.
Ian
Jorge,
As a painter I want to chile :), but as a photographer I understood you well. But also i don’t think we have a “problem” We live in different world. We have just two separate words “passion” and “business”. And sometimes passion is enough.
for me for sure.
¨If you are fortunate enough you might be able to combine the two.¨
that´s the ideal for certain.. even with a personal project which can use publishers and the like as grant opportunities there has to be a little commercial work underlying it..
so really – whatever you want to do in photography technical competence is the most basic of needs.. next up would be theoretical..
anyone who worries or cares what camera they use has basic insecurities about their work, yet in the commercial field a certain level of equip is normally expected, especially these days when the commissioning editor / marketing bod is likely to have a dslr and know their beans with cameras.
i´ve only ever had one magazine client expect me to update my equipment – and that was very early on when i could only afford the best of the 70´s in terms of kit..
what i found is that i was so accustomed to the limitations of a basic kit that even with whistle and bells cameras these days i really don´t use them to capacity..
there are commercial photographers i have known who purposefully take too much kit to a shoot in order to mystify what they do around clients who are present, and thereby justify their inflated fees.. very early on i was told ¨take more than you need¨ to a shoot, which i utterly ignored.
more kit is hampering and besides – we all get commissioned on what we show from the last job rather than what is was shot with.
finally – don´t we all feel mediocre – strain with embarrassment at earlier work and toughen ourselves up constantly wanting to improve?
i´d really have no interest in meeting a photographer who actually thought they were great.. believing ones press is the first step on a downward ladder and caring too much what others think of your work doesn´t help much.
as an aside the guy who ran around nottingham town center in his underpants the day after the earthquake has now raised 1545GBP for doctors without borders..
¨The first radio reports coming out of Haiti were very moving. I’ve never felt so compelled to do something – stupid. Assistance is needed so urgently – there was no time to waste.¨
if you´ve yet to donate you can do so through him and have a giggle at as well – http://www.justgiving.com/Slim-Beaver
Marcin,
Totally agree. Passion is what must drive all of us. I get involved in self passioned long time projects where I don’t have to meet deadlines. I shoot localy, mainly digital, so I don’t have to depend on money to at least start the project. Of course when I finish the project I usually apply for some fundings, eather private or goverment, in order to do stand up an exhibition or a produce book. If I don’t get the funds, at least I get up with a finished project that I can show in small prints or digital.
Jorge
Ummm…Marcin, if civilization began in March of 1977, does that mean that the years pre-1977 are now designated B.M. (Before Marcin)?
Akaky
Finally someone understand me…
ok, enough this jokes, someone could take it seriously… I just read Ali Agca call himself “Christ”… well, madness is not for everyone…
Patricia
Yes, it’s a guy thing. One of my best friends, a female photographer, was the last working photographer I know to switch to digital. She clung to her old pair of Bronicas ’till the end, and hates spending money on gear. On the other hand she has waaaay too many clothes and shoes and doesn’t blink spending hundreds of dollars for a blouse. I buy my clothes at Costco.
Marcin, the center of the universe is about 5cm behind our eyes.
“… as an aside the guy who ran around nottingham town center in his underpants the day after the earthquake has now raised 1545GBP for doctors without borders …”
Bowen, imagine what you could do going commando again.
Aitken
Good post. The ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was a commercial job.
Yes, we approach commercial work in a different way than our personal work, but must bring all our skills to both. One can be passionate about both, in different ways. The skill level required to do consistent high quality commercial work is huge. We are paid in relationship to our skills, including the skills necessary to get the work in the first place.
For those who would rather have a REAL job, and do photography purely for personal satisfaction, great. For those who wish they could make a living as photographers, you must be selling something people want to buy. In my 39 years earning my living as a photographer, I’ve never met anyone who actually makes a living selling “fine art” prints or personal essays.
Just Curious, Michael where are you from?
Jason
tom..
any profit for charity would go on my bail from jail for being in posession of out-of-date veg
(sorry)
:ø/
JUSTIN,
Thanks for the offer. I think it was a Canon Sure shot prima. I paid $100 for it back in 94.
PATRICIA,
I guess boys will be boys. I am not a technophile per se but if I can’t ask other photogs about gear who do I ask? Did not intend to turn this into tech talk. Lots of other more interesting things to talk about. It originally started for me about the idea of B&W vs Color. I think we covered that though.
DAH’s alibi corroborated:
http://tiny.cc/dah
i.e., he was actually in DC at NG as he claimed :-)
Imants; “some randy female got the hots for the only guy in existence, trouble he was mediocre at best”
Sounds like what happens as chucking out time approaches on Saturday night at the pub… :-)
Jason, I’m American but have lived abroad for a couple long stretches and have traveled quite a bit, though not in comparison, it seems, to many people who hang out here. I didn’t mean anything negative by my little quip about six slides. I like the look of your photos and it seems you have an interesting theme, whether I understand it correctly or not.
Of course I live in New York now, unfortunately. I never know whether to show these little slideshows I produce or not. They are typically just what I see walking around the boroughs. I walk around a lot. Anyway, I think some people may occasionally find them interesting, though probably more as “pictures of New York” than as “photogaphy.” That’s more often than not the spirit in which I take them.
So, if you are interested, here is some of what I saw on MLK weekend. And it’s in color! (though alas, unoriginal and done many times before)
Do anyone know how one year positive film will react if I will develop them? Whole year in the refrigerator?
For sure will loose color, but how much?
Do anyone knows anything?
:)
Well, Gordon, don’t go the other direction now and assume having expensive/too many clothes is a gal thing! I have two skirts and two dresses for my winter wardrobe, none of which cost much of anything. Some of us just aren’t spenders no matter what ;=)
Patricia
Marcin,
you might have a slight colour shift, but I guess it will be ok. It also depends if it is pro film or not. The general consumer films were formulated to have a longer shelf life.
Have fun with it.
ian
For paying job’s, it’s simply money. For more ambitious work , I consider it a moral necessity…………….it is unfortunate that one takes to belittling work and takes to pigeon-holding.
ALL….
i am a bit behind in the comments, but i will go back and read…i see interesting discussions everywhere…good…and thanks…i like to think this crowd a responsible and articulate one….edgy yes..conflict yes…but, everyone seems to be WRITING instead of just jabbing…the net has a way of making so many comments simply nasty…for their own sake…i do not see that here and again, i thank you…
Michael , i hope you do not think that i support a no tech approach to photography…while i rarely discuss technique here, i consider myself a tech master in the areas where i work…i am a minimalist to be sure, but where i do work , i know very well my technique…i do not know photoshop because i really do not need photoshop…i use light for my photoshop…being a long time transparency film shooter, i HAD to know my technique…click and you were done….so while i do here on Burn make minimal tech discussions, i do not for one second feel that technique “not important” and believe what you wrote when you said (paraphrased) that good technique was necessary as part of the responsibility towards the subject….
on moral responsibility for commercial work, i certainly do think that one must put everything into whatever they do with their photographic skills…a solid work ethic and an almost maniacal approach to getting it “right” serves any photographer well in completing commissioned work…i have been lucky in being able to work for the best editorial publications and some of the best ad work as well..good commissions where my personal look is sought and bought…so, my commercial work has been as free as commercial work can be…Rio is such an assignment….
still, nothing beats what you will do on your own…or, i should say the percentages for good work are higher when totally self motivated…it is true i have made some of my most iconic images while on commission and i am grateful always for such free standing commissioned support….but, if working on my own, my rate of “best pictures” is way higher and my edgier work always comes when working on my own…when someone commissions me to be “me”, there is still a parameter of some kind…my “edge” inside a magazine is still not my real edge…it is simply their real edge…and working to “their edge” is no small task and i take it very seriously…
in any case, it is all good …i love commissioned work because i always learn something that i did not intend to learn…on my own, i tend to live inside more..good in one way and perhaps bad in another…the “external” which comes automatically from commissions exposes you to new concepts, new places, new cultures…
so, on the best of commissions you must personalize the external if you are being hired for your own “look”…
i think i have digressed…anyway, i will go back and re-read all of your comments and come back soonest….right now i have to go write an editors note for our next special post…stay tuned…
cheers, david
Patricia
I kind of figured that with you. My wife Martha is the same. Her former life of twenty odd years as a back to the land hippy on Lasqueti Island (no power or car ferry) taught her to live pretty simply. Mostly second hand clothes from the thrift store etc. I had to drag her to the shoe store at Christmas and insist she get some new shoes for work.
MARCIN…
better in the refrigerator than at room temperature, but get it processed fast…you will have lost something (in the blacks mostly), but not everything….
Aitken, David,
Thanks for advice. Still have 120 kodak’s e100gx from Thailand last year. Herve remind me today because he is in the same place right now. About 20 films. Had no money for process and still have not, but tomorrow I will develop one or two.
I know it will be disaster, especially with color. I afraid it will be disaster. All pictures are from mamiya 7II so grain should be acceptable.
Marcin, not always a disaster, if there are issues you have the luxury of scanning and adjusting in photoshop. With a high bit depth scan you can really push it around to get the colours/tone/contrast as you want them.
If you look at the flip side, there are alot of plugins and actions for photoshop around to distress digital images to make them look like faded sunbleached film.
Cheers
ian
Gordon, I already liked Martha from your portraits of her, now I know we have lots in common. Sure hope we can meet sometime!
Patricia
Ian
Many thanks :) Will see tomorrow.
David, no, I never thought for a second that you support a no-technique approach to photography, most certainly not your own. Quite the contrary. Looking at whatever of your work I can find — your web site, Magnum, Nat Geo’s, Nat Geo special publications such as Portraits I see at bookstores –I recognize your incredible skill, particularly with color and lighting, and am making a concentrated effort to learn from it. You can’t imagine how much restraint it takes for me not to constantly pepper you with questions concerning how you got this or that shot. But that would be wrong, so I figure out what I can and work on those skills.
No, regarding skills and technique, I was referencing what I see, rightly or not, as a recurring theme among the comments and elsewhere, something along the lines of pooh-poohing of well-composed, exposed, focused and color balanced photos. I don’t think all photos must be that way, but I do think it benefits the photographer to have as much control as possible. I should be able to take the “perfect” photo if I want, or more importantly if my art director or editor wants. Gaining those skills, for the great majority at least, requires a systematic approach. If you focus on a subject ten feet away at f2.8 with a 35mm lens, how many feet in front and behind the subject will be in focus? Is that the look you want? Or should you do f8 with a 50? And/or use a flash? And so on…
Or do like Winogrand. Stick a 24mm on there, set it at f/8 and shoot a million photos or so. :)
Jim Powers:
Didn’t Winogrand famously use a 28mm on his Leica?!
DAH:
Can you provide any words of advice regarding trying to get corporate and advertising work without an agent?
I am trying to market myself with Aga as providing commercial photography services in a reportage style. We are targeting the Romanian market to begin with where there is a lot of foreign investment going on and hardly any photographers here in Bucharest to compete with.
Dellicson/Aga
http://www.photographersmarket.com/
the current 2010 edition
http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Market-Editors-Writers-Digest/dp/1582975841
DAH:
I remember on my MA course in London in 2006, photographer Paul Lowe (Magnum Associate 1993-2001) giving a slide show and saying how you were a master with slide film and a Leica and never would use a hand held light meter! Lowe marveled at your ability to nail exposures with unforgiving slide film. I also remember him saying that, for him, your style was a balance of the sort of complexity of Alex Webb’s compositions and a more emotional kind of photography. Webb’s vision being overly complex and often a bit ‘cold’.
ALL
To get a non-spin view of what is and is not happening on the ground in Port-au-Prince, read Jim Estrin’s interviews with photographers Damon Winter and Michael Appleton on Lens blog. Be sure to go to previous posts as well as today’s. For all the aid that is pouring into Haiti, the people have seen very very little. And then the newscasters call these desperate people “looters” and the Haitian police are shooting them dead!
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/
Patricia
Many thanks Jason Houge. Also: I wanted to let people know that I am now selling collector prints through this French site: http://www.wheelerdealer.org/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&manufacturer_id=3&Itemid=58&lang=en
Jim, a quick bit of research suggests Winogrand’s methods bolster my point:
At the same time, as he passed from shadow into sunlight into shadow again, he was constantly adjusting his meterless camera. It was second nature to him. In fact, his first comment right out the door was, “nice light–1/250 second at f/8.”
Dellicson, the best way to do it (corporate anyway, advertising is probably similar) is to develop relationships with art directors. Photographers typically phone them, tell them they’re going to send a card, then send the card — postcard-like with website address, not business card — and then call to follow up. Find the art directors in the publication’s masthead. I’ve heard from a very experienced and knowledgeable source that many art directors expect a kick-back from assignments, but have never experienced that myself.
Or better yet, get an artist’s representative. For finding both reps and art directors, Workbook is a very valuable resource. Advertise in it if you can. Many art directors use it when looking for photographers with a particular style for a particular shoot.
You’re Welcome!
“Advertise in it if you can. Many art directors use it when looking for photographers with a particular style for a particular shoot.”
their rate card isn’t online as of today, but expect to pay something like $10,000 for a two page spread.
YOW!
I was once among those “looting” a flooded Walmart for bottled water and other necessities in the U.S. (less than 12 hours after I arrived back from David’s Bangkok workshop). I do not know if we had permission or not, I did not ask. Neither the Red Cross nor the National Guard seemed to mind, and they did not ask but did gratefully accept. Certainly those who were thirsty and cut off did not care. The rules do change, or should, at certain times.
Hey all,
I have a friend who wants to get into photography.
He wants to get a super fancy camera so he can shoot with me.
So my plan is, I will take him shooting with some lower-tech 35mm cameras
We will shoot B&W TriX and then develop it together.
So that being said – I don’t have any low tech 35mm cameras. Does anyone have any advice about what would work well on a budget? I was thinking Holga 35mm but, I want him to have a little more control and learn about shutter speed and aperture so he understands why it’s important. So I’m considering an old Canon AE-1 or AE-1 Program. To show him why it’s so important to have proper exposure to print well. So when or if he decides to buy a digital he’s able to understand the latitude difference and respect the film process.
Anyone have other ideas for cameras?
JASON:
If you’re just looking for a learning tool, I would think any old manual SLR or rangefinder would work better than a Holga. I saw a Minolta SRT-102 at a local Goodwill the other day for $10… Don’t know if the meter worked, though.
Of course, most of those old Japanese makes will have gummy light seals. A lot of folks complain about replacing them, but it’s no dirtier than changing your oil, for sure! Just grab a couple of beers, some paper towels, lighter fluid, toothpicks and you’re good to go in an hour or so. Jon Goodman sells EXCELLENT light seal replacement kits on eBay under the handle “interslice” for $10 or so. Also, you could just cut some black Foamies from the Wal-Mart craft department and glue with Elmer’s… I’ve done it both ways, although Jon Goodman’s kits are much easier to work with.
Thanks a lot Justin!
Jason, there are literally dozens of point and shoot 35mm cameras on a shelf at my local thrift store for 2.99 to 4.99. I’m suspect it’s the same everywhere.
DAVIN…
i think it is very difficult to secure good ad work without an agent…there are some exceptions of course and you could luck into the right art director at the right time with the right portfolio…but, agents have their “ears to the track” and even they have a tough time matching photographers to the client, respective schedules, etc etc….there are many good agents around and i would imagine you could find one…however, seeking ad work imo should never be any kind of focus for a photographer who is primarily an editorial photographer like you…you will go crazy trying to keep up with the ad game…the best attitude imo is to take ad work if it comes, but do not try too hard for it…that is why having a good agent works…if they find a good job that matches your skills with the job for you fine, if they do not, fine too…ad work has saved me a few times and has provided funding for quite a bit of personal work, but i have never spent any amount of my time thinking about it…my ad portfolio that my agent uses are quite simply my personal books…if a client sees something in there that they may think translates into something they can use, then the ad may come my way…please know that i lose most ad jobs for which i am in contention…as in down to the last two or three photogs in consideration, i will be cut often at the last minute…the art director may like my work, but the client see me as risky even though they may like my work too….most clients are unwilling to gamble on a “location shooter” as opposed to a studio photographer who can guarantee absolutely 100% how things will look…anyone using me knows that i am not in control of the weather etc and that “capturing a moment” can seem pretty ethereal when it comes time to sign a purchase order…..seems risky to those in charge of the bucks…i even understand it….of course, i always know that i can do the job one way or another, but all of us who shoot documentary know that we are considered high risk by an ad agency who, when about to spend a lot of money, want a guarantee of product…that is why you need an agent…someone who believes in you and your work and your ability to “produce on demand” regardless of circumstances….no small task…
cheers, david
Gordon, I’m at the second hand store often, I’m looking for something with more control like an SLR. I think I have it figured out now, Thanks! :)
Jason, I shot transparency for years and still do on personal projects. As mentioned above exposure is critical for this. When shooting I would also shoot polaroid to check exposure/colour/composition. I would then put the pola under my arm to keep it warm and wait the alloted 2 mins for it to process. Then shoot onto film. Then take film to the lab to rush process (2 hours) or process overnight. Only then would I know the real results of my labours. I switched to digital and man what a revelation, you could see the results of your labours/the interaction/balancing of flash/daylight by a quick glance at the lcd on the back. It was one of the fastest learning curves ever.
It is nice and good to know about film, but digital is a different beast and it is what you will shooting so I would suggest go straight to digi, you can see you tests/trais straight away and compensate accordingly.
Cheers
ian
Davin,
The advertising/corporate market is tough to crack as David says above. you will spend alot of time trying to find the names of the the right people in the marketing/PR/design departments. This can be a major distraction from taking pictures and really frustrating and confusing, but if you have the determination it can be worth it though. It is a very different process from shooting editorial as at the end of the day your a shooting to promote a product and as David said the bean counters are looking over your shoulder and assessing the risk of hiring and editorial shooter verses a coprorate shooter who knows the rules.
have a look at aphotoeditor and the stocklandmaretl blog to get an idea.
cheers
ian
oops should be stocklandmartel blog.
I know that this has come up before but I can’t find it in the archives… I want to create a small slideshow with sound to post here… I have LightRoom, but for some stupid reason it only exports/saves the slideshows you create with it in PDF/JPG files… do you know of any program of which I could find a trial version to download?
http://www.soundslides.com/
Soundslides is certainly a good tool which supports both Mac and PC,
or an alternative might be FotoMagico, which is Mac only, however:
http://www.boinx.com/fotomagico/storytelling/
Thodoris, made this one:
http://www.slowemotion.it/trofeo/
with soundslides demo, very easy!
hmm quiet here..
must be the 19th..
THEODORIS_ Sound slides is the way to go if you want to publish on the web and share your work, I used it for the first time when a last minute request came in from an editor for some web time.
I had no idea about the program , but it’s easy enough to get your head around,
only one drawback is that you have to have your audio down pat before you sequence your pics, so if your mixing your own sound it kinda makes it hard.
heres my first sound slide shot over a couple of days. Good luck!
http://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2008/national/east-arnhem-land/index.html
DO I hear snare drum???
c’mon, we are photographers not a monks…
:)
How do you keep a photographer in suspense? I’ll tell you on the 19th.
Thanks guys!!
Eva, Glenn… very nice… mine is a *very* simple and short piece compared to your samples…
Brian: this is the 19th (since 21 hours) and nothing has changed, except almost the same people leaving comments as on the 18th…
Yeah. I was just teasing the people getting excited for whatever Burn has scheduled for today.
Yeah. Was just teasing you…
i think somebody is over building the suspense bit….it was not me….
it was facebook alan harvey
*yawns, raises her hand*…
yup, i’m here too..this place needs some mixing and pouring, ja know? But i do want to thank the folks who posted the slide show links..very opportune moment to click and bm. muchas gracias!
cheers, everybody!
kathleen
hey DAH..glad you made it back from the favelas in one piece..and that you didn’t have to use your piece to shoot your way outta town..did you bring back some Brazilian coffee? Now, in CR, we can’t bring ground coffee in our carry-on bags as gifts because it’s considered a “powder”..for crying out loud…i’m off but wanted to wave and say hey..
best
kathleen
make that ‘shaking and pouring’..
Anna B
go
go
go!!!!
:)
kathleen – spot on..
always enjoy glenns work very much..
BURNIANS…
“Carpe diem! Rejoice while you are alive; enjoy the day; live life to the fullest; make the most of what you have. It is later than you think.”
Horace (Ancient Roman Poet. 65 BC-8 BC)
Today I am drinking ouzo with olives… the last few days …I realized that
as a one …I can’t do anything
BUT as a million…I can do a lot…
drop…drop…the glass is getting full
I believe…!!!
P.S I miss you all my BURNIANS…KATIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE…you are never off…I need more landscapes
But I am waiting for the book !!!
LOVE …PHOTO…and yes…I will be back…I got reading to do for days !!!
I am ready to Dance till the morning …VIVA !!!
Well, soundslides work!!
Here is my first mm piece with sound collected on location:
http://www.tzalavras.com/Arminou/index.html
THANK YOU BD for believing in BURN…we are gonna raise our bar …even higher !!!
THANK YOU MR.JAMES NACHTWEY … I am so excited right now…no time to express my eso-feelings!!!
I am speechless…hmmm…every BURNIANS knows that I struggle …
I am dancing to the start of BURN !!!
DAVID ALAN HARVEY –
How do I get in contact with you?
We need to talk… since the workshop my mind has been in high gear just thinking and researching.
You said what happened in the workshop wouldn’t hit right away… you were right! I need to talk to you.
JASON…
i am at home and available by phone….i think you have my number…i know you have my number…
KATHLEEN…
i did not bring back any Brazilian coffee, but only because i forgot….in any case, nice to hear from you and i hope we can catch up on everything soonest, particularly regarding your work….
CIVI already said it, but thank you to Mr. Nachtwey and BD!
I used to work for BD’s Bioscience division – they are a great company.
David;
A quick question. When you entered the favellas to work with the dealers etc did you bring a camera for your first visit?
I was wondering whether you thought it was better to go there first without a camera, to explain what you were trying to accomplish. Or start how you mean to carry on, and bring your gear ready for shooting?
I can imagine how frustrating it would be to be allowed to shoot on the first visit (but not have your gear), and that first visit ending up being your only chance to shoot, e.g. you mentioned how the “more important” dealers pulling the pin on your shooting?
Cheers
ROSS…
i went straight into the favelas with camera in hand….i had been working there a couple of days simply shooting normal everyday life and bringing prints back to the families etc etc as i always do….the day i went into the “smoke hole” (drug selling point) the meeting was as close to spontaneous as could be imagined…i was given about a 15 minute warning that i could go in….i asked for nothing, but just showed my book Living Proof to the leader of the 4 men who were running this “store”…these men decided on the spot to let me shoot everything…it was nerve racking in that it was like the scene from Boogie Nights when our film heros went to the house of the drug dealer…remember that scene?? once i had the pictures, i was just looking for an “exit strategy” because i could tell the mood could switch instantly….
to go into a favela to shoot , you need to be with someone from the community…we announced our intentions from the beginning and were assigned a young man who was supposed to tell us what we could and could not do…so, we stayed with him (or rather he stayed with us) and he became a friend…he was the one who told us we could have a rendezvous in the “smoke hole”…at that point one assumes he knows the rules, the protocol…later, after all the dust settled and we were told not to come back to the favela after we had spent the better part of a night there and were told the “top guy” was not pleased with us, the men in the smoke hole or our “guide”…so, we were all in trouble together….our main guide and “minder” did meet us later when we were literally on our way to the airport and told us that if we were REALLY in big big trouble we would have known about that night….there is trouble , then there is big trouble…i think i will go back to the favela, without camera, and ask to meet with the “top guy”…anyway, we will see…i could change my mind…it is hard to figure exactly what his reaction will be…could be he just wants to be acknowledged…consulted…asked…or, could be it is crazy to go back…i will think about it….
cheers, david
Thank you David, I appreciate that. Seems like you have to be spontaneous!!!
I mentioned to you the other day that I will be off to shoot in that dodgy suburb next week for the youth project. However a mag editor has asked if I think it is feasible to do a long(ish) term essay/article on the suburb too.
So when I go down to shoot for the kids project I will be looking at getting contacts for the article too. There is a heavy gang presence there which will have to be shown to provide a balanced view. The thing is I couldn’t truly document the suburb without showing the seedier side; just as much as I won’t dwell on the seedy side when there is so much good stuff there too.
This is all new territory for me….
David; I forgot to mention the gang scene there is predominately young “LA gangster wannabee” stuff but usually fuelled up on meth, as well as the traditional “adult” gangs; Black Power, Mongrel Mob, Tribesmen etc… All are heavily into meth production.
DAVIN,
Everything DAH said above about getting ad work is correct in my (limited) experience. I looked at your start of a website and though there are a few nice images I think you are making a mistake of trying to cherry pick your doc work to try and shoehorn it into a corporate model. You are better off just showing the best of what you do, and show stories. Most doc shooters are hired for more narrative style campaigns and that’s where your ability to tell a story comes in handy vs the one-off image best left to the ad only style shooters. Make any sense? They will hire me or you or DAH, etc etc because of our unique style and vision, not because of that one image we happen to have emulating a fashion photographer. If they want that sort of image, why not just go to the photographer that has a whole body of them? A much safer bet.
I haven’t had an ad job in many moons (though I’ve been up for a few but nothing came of it). It’s not easy but like DAH said you just can’t compete with the corporate shooters – they are very good at what they do, do a lot of it, have staffs, stylists, etc etc and are a sure bet in a clients mind when many thousands of $ are on the line. So best to do your own thing, find an agent (or not) and if you do your own thing good enough then opportunities will knock. AD’s and clients will see through the shoehorn approach – they would rather see confidence in your own work vs trying to please with subpar imagery that you think they want to see. Of course the Romanian market might be different so as with all advice grains of salt required.
CP
Unfortunately, whatever format the James Nachtwey slideshow is in, it will not run on either my old version of Safari or my old version of Firefox. Had the same trouble with Igor Possner’s essay. So I guess I will have to buy a new OS or new computer before I can see these. Other Burn slideshows usually have run fine.
David, about your protocol in the favela and the smoke hole… your speculation that the top guy mostly wants to have his authority and prestige acknowledged sounds very likely to me… Of course, I haven’t worked in Brazil, so I’m going out on a limb here, but in my experience in similar situations in several countries in Asia, it was always essential to have a face-to-face meeting, however brief and scripted, and to get approval from the very top… and avoiding that step usually doomed any project or access, not on its merits, but ‘simply’ because protocol and heirarchy were not respectfully followed. Trouble is, it’s usually hard to retrieve such a situation once a faux-pas has been committed.
sidney…
before doing anything drastic, try updating your flash player… that should do the trick
http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
let me know if it works….
anton
DAH
Do you think the ‘top guy’ in the favela might have been pissed off because
you had an M9 and he only had an M8 :>))
David – I didn’t know you had a new phone already.
Will you still be around early next week???
ANTON,
Thanks for your help but I am already using the latest Flash version (9) that my OS and browsers will support. Flash ver. 10 won’t work unless I change both operating system and browsers to later versions.
SIDNEY…
i am always very aware of authority and protocol…it is just a tough thing to figure under those circumstances and particularly since all was so spontaneous…since we were very sure that everyone knew we were making photographs in general that our minder woulda shoulda coulda known the proper protocol way more than us…and they seem to run a tight ship….for all we knew, we were with the top guy and assumed that those men we photographed would certainly not go against a “top guy” in any case…but, evidently they did anyway…their bravado winning out over reason and perhaps mine as well…by the way, those guys who did let us “in” were never seen by us again…nor were they ever again at the place again where we photographed them according to our guide/minder…i am assuming they were simply “reassigned”….if anything really bad had happened to them, we would have heard i am sure…
in any case, i really enjoyed the fashion show which i photographed the next day…there i had a proper press pass…some protocol is easier than others…
DAVIN…
Charles is so right..i had not seen your portfolio..the worst thing you can do is to try to be “commercial” or have commercial looking work in the portfolio you present particularly since that is just not what you do normally……just be yourself…make it so they buy you or nothing…
JASON…
yup, new iPhone…around next week…text me before you call please…
cheers, david
David; Is the D700 still functioning?
David –
Will do!
Wish Nacthwey had shot this in color. He’s using gritty B&W as a psychological effect. Not necessary. The suffering is grim enough alone. I’m always impressed how physically close he is to his subjects. He can get into a space most folks won’t let others into. Still, though, just more misery and suffering.
David:
Still waiting for your M9 review…
Thanks!
Jorge
Thodoris, easy, isn’t it? You can also add a headline, captions, and change some odd things, even with the demo version :)
TB is a big problem in the Pacific Islands too. In Vanuatu for example the doctors I talked to said they must use DOT (Directly Observed Therapy) to actively fight it. The patients have to stay in the clinic until all the course of medication is finished.
If they let patients take the medication home they only take it until they feel ok and then stop before the entire course is taken. Of course this often leads to the reoccurrence of TB in the initial patient and to the development of resistant TB strains.
Eva…
Yes, very user friendly… thank you and to the others for suggesting it…
‘night…
DAVID,
Easy to understand how you thought you were dealing with people who had authority… also easy to see how they might want to encourage that impression to inflate their own status.
Hi all,
I wanted to let everyone know that I have teamed up with photographer Aga Luczakowska to offer portraiture, event coverage, corporate and advertising photography in a reportage style from our base in Romania, the fastest growing economy in the European Union.
We are based in Bucharest and work for advertising agencies, design firms, magazines and book publishers and believe in establishing lasting relationships with our clients.
Updated portfolio: http://www.luczakowskaellicson.com/
JIM…
yes, b&w (your personal favorite) and yes more misery and suffering…however, in this case, when Jim showed these pictures to members of the U.S.Congress, several million dollars(do not hv exact number) was allocated to TB research and aid..so this essay does two things that you are normally and correctly critical of…(a) something actually happened in real terms of action to allay more misery and suffering (b) a photographer was paid for his work on the net and with more to come …all signs imo point to the net becoming the same income producer for photographers heretofore only reserved for print…the evolution is indeed happening…still, the truly important thing is that awareness does work…or, at least can work…not all the time, but some of the time can alleviate some suffering…and imo eliminating some is better than doing nothing at all…i am sure you would agree that both a & b are important and i am sure we both wish for the same to continue….
JORGE…
oh yes the M9…honestly with the world events, specifically Haiti, in our face right now, i thought i would wait just a bit on a review for a $10,000 camera…but, yes i will do it at an appropriate time…thanks for your patience…
cheers, david
ALL
of anyone has an essay in bw shot on canon gear about nyc, please email me a link asap – an editor wanted to place my dark light work but it is not canon – not much time but i was asked to recommend..today or tomorrow only, please
DAH:
thanks for the advice
Food for though: http://www.magnumad.com/
Jim – David – All
Correct me if i’m wrong…
Mr. Nachtwey’s use of black and white film… It’s my belief he is using it with purpose. I don’t see the grittiness that Jim sees – I see really cleanly, highly detailed images.
I think using black and white removes the distraction color would have in these images.. The photo of the woman who pulled out her IV and blood is running down her hand into a pool on the bed, the bright colors of the clothing traditionally worn in Thailand and India, the differences in light from inside the sophisticated hospitals to those barely separated from the outdoors. I don’t think all that color would have had any beneficial quality to these images.
David, All
I am just scanning a one year old film I was worry about yesterday.
Colors looks just great! If I something loose by this year it is invisible.
I will post a link when will finish scanning.
David – I just read Alec Soth’s book sleeping by the Mississippi
and I just ordered a hug stack of books from the library. got some reading to do this weekend! Thanks for the link and adding more to it! Wonderful stuff.
DAH:
Who was this woman!?
ok, a link to fresh developed more than a year old film.
http://marcinluczkowski.com/news/?p=132
“Who was this woman!?”
This was very pretty woman.
David, Nacthwey is a great photographer. No question about it. One of my favorites. In fact, you could have closed comments under his essay and just posted, “Nacthwey is God” and said about the same thing all the gushing responses that will be posted there will say. But there he is in Haiti, doing it all over again. Make a few bucks, publish a book, give a few talks. About a day after the earthquake, we “got it.” We could see thousands of photos of collapsed buildings, rotting bodies, suffering people. What more really needs to be said? I’m sure Nacthwey can show us buildings and bodies and suffering better than any photographer in the world; but, so what?
Sorry, I just don’t understand the point beyond making a buck. And I guess that’s important to photographers who make the misery circuit, too.
People don’t just “get the point” Jim, they see it, forget it and move on. And often people don’t get things until they are repeated over and over again. Why do you think you see commercials for most brands repeated over and over again. hey, I know what McDonald’s is, why do I need to be shown McDonald’s ads a million times? And why does McD’s spend MILLIONS upon MILLIONS advertising? Its because people need to be reminded or they forget. Short attention spans, selective retention, selective attention, etc, etc etc. If we don’t get the continuous images and stories from there, we will forget. Maybe not you, but most people will. And this is why we need Nachtwey and all the others to show and tell us, repeatedly.
To what end, Rafal? In reality, compassion overload hits really fast, and people just stop looking. Turn off the news. Put down the newspaper. Cue up a comedy. Beyond giving some money, what the hell can we do about 200,000 dead and 1.5 million homeless (or what the current guess is)?
While I look for something for you Jim, I just have a question for you to think over… What would you be doing right now if you weren’t a Photo Editor? or What would you be doing if you could do anything you wanted besides being an editor?
Jim:
I have to say that there is much (much much) in the ‘misery’ photography department that I loathe, actually…have written about this, argued with other photographes and editors, got called names and stood up to folks (in conferences, festivals, galleries and bars), so I do understand your concern and your reaction…as i explained to my son tonight (as he asked for more money for the school’s haiti fundraising efforts today, and having ask a bunch of colleagues to donate for his bike-ride-for-cancer tomorrow), one of the difficulties of asking (continuously) for people’s compassion (either as money or donation or awareness or resources or help) is that it can often test and hurt folk…it can weight them, reduce their own feelings and live to an either or (i’ve given enough or already or too much, etc)…this is a real truth, particularly since most of us operate on a moment-to-moment basis of our compassion…that is sad, but a truism as well….i also have often been frustrated by stories that garner only misery….Mikhail Subotzsky spoke about this with an earlier version of Jim’s essay…asking his mother (a doctor in S.Africa) to weigh in….it makes for an interesting discuss (but at the moment, i dont have the time to discuss that part), …so i understand both your fatigue and your concern with both stories like this as well as a practice by which photographers run from misery to misery, wart to war, tragic event to tragic event…it makes for the same kind of numbing emptyness as gorging oneself on BigMac’s and American Idol…..
However….
I think Jim you make a fundamental mistake here and often in your arguments…i think you mistake YOUR mandate and concerns for others. If Jim, in his path, chooses to photograph this story to show it and show it and hit peole over the head until they get it, remember it, are compelled to get involved, or move away, that is HIS MANDATE…his ethic…his tao…..you see no point in it and thus you pursue other stories, other ways of living and telling….but this is his effort and his way of believing in that thing which compells him….
i can tell you a story of an old woman monk in tibet who spent 30 years alone meditating….when some western academics were introduced to her to ask her about this, her life’s goals, she asked them about all the climbers climbing mt. evererst…’for what possible reason’ she asked them…it is a mountain and why would one risk this life’s incarnation simply to say ‘i climbed the mountain’ rather than to spend the life working on awareness/improvement/dhamma?…..neither fully understood the other…and are either choice less critical toward each’s sense, moral sense, of how one lives?….
the point Jim is that yes, one must be aware of not only their own life (above all) but the world around and that includes whether or not what you are doing is for good or ill; however, that too is and can only be defined through the moral compass of one’s own awareness and decision making….
we cant do anything about 200,000 dead or 1.5 million homeless, but we can do something about our own awareness and our own efforts of loving kindness….and our own efforts to help….
you may be numb, but i am not yet…and if i am the only person who is not numb (which i am not), ant that story leads to help from 1 person (in this example me) that it has reached it’s importance…
we live in the world one breath at a time, and we love in the world one person at a time and most of everything we do has no consequential end….
but….
we must not meter out another’s person’s day’s choice by our own aged and well-worn heart….
i feel your concern and your disillusion (have felt it too)….but try to remember the wider and wiser way to see the world aint through rose color glasses, but knowing that we have different classes, and each different acuities…
cheers
all the best
bob
Ah HA! I found it.
I was looking all over the Essay and I found it here just a few posts above yours!
david alan harvey worte:
“when Jim showed these pictures to members of the U.S.Congress, several million dollars(do not hv exact number) was allocated to TB research and aid..so this essay does two things that you are normally and correctly critical of…(a) something actually happened in real terms of action to allay more misery and suffering…”
This wasn’t about making money for James Nachtwey’s pocket however he was compensated for doing the leg work. But it was about bringing about a change in thinking. a realization that this is a serious problem. He created a paradigm shift. He showed it to the people with the power to make something happen and it worked. Yes he was paid for it. But if you’re going to be running all over the world to pool together as many images that you need to produce this kind of work, you’re going to need financial backing. This isn’t something any one person can do on their own.
Shit I’d love to dive deep into shooting in Israel, and all over Europe and then into the Islamic world to bring back images that would tell the “right” story about who the Jews and Muslims are. In hopes to defuse future pain and future conflict.
I’ll bet you everything I own James Nachtwey doesn’t WANT to have the kind of job security he has. But it’s because the world continues to be small minded and not care about their neighbor that he has such security. and it’s because He has the right stuff: the right mix of vision, talent, honesty, and integrity that makes him sought after to do the work he does. James Nachtwey isn’t God. He’s a man with a heart.
I just don’t for the life of me understand why Jim is a photojournalist. Like being unable to connect a name and face, i can’t connect Jim to his career choice. It’s ok for him to make a living editing news photos for a newspaper, but it’s not ok for JN to go to Haiti to make a living taking news photos. Would it be ok for JN to sell photos from Bingo night? What if Time called Jim up right now, this minute and asked him please to get on the first flight to Haiti and money is no object? Would he politely demur on the grounds that it wouldn’t bring the dead back to life?
I am not a Pj, never wanted to be, never will want to be. But damn, i appreciate that Pj’s are risking life and limb all over the world to tell the difficult stories. How many lose their lives in the effort? They’re kidnapped, shot, tortured, killed. How many journalists have been killed in Mexico’s drug wars? Something like 58? Crap..imagine them wanting to document drug wars when they could be covering the Church tortilla bake? I’m sorry, i am just ashamed of this attitude of Jim’s when so many journalists and Photojournalists are dying violently on the streets of the world around us. Without their efforts i wouldn’t know squat about what’s going on. And wouldn’t have an opinion because i would be entirely ignorant. And wouldn’t have been able to teach many ideals to my children because i would have had my head stuck in the sand. Grr..ok, i’ll stop..it’s just damn..damn..i want to thank everyone right now, all of you Pj’s for what you do..and i don’t begrudge you a single nickel you make doing it, either.
best
Kathleen
where i’ve written “Jim” above, i mean Jim Powers
Think about this – when the military go off to war and come back changed and unable to reconnect with their families… Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome… JN is there experiencing the same things except he’s not killing people when he pulls the trigger.
http://inspirationinformation.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/james_natchwey_112803.jpg
But he’s there. he’s more vulnerable than the warriors on either side.
In that photo one can see he might have been a bit more careless than DAH was in the Favelas.
What is JN’s mind like??? is he numb? is he mad? is he aware? is he awake? Do you think the money is that good he’d go out and do something like this???
I feel there’s more to JN than the money he’s paid.
then there is my all time favorite JN photo…
http://apphotnum.free.fr/images/nachtwey7.jpg
Well said Katie and Bob.
I think that it’s quite ironic that it was only a few days ago that there was a discussion on Lightstalkers, and about a page or two on burn, about how wrong it was for photojournalists to be rushing off to Haiti!
I was going to mention at the time (but didn’t want to sound churlish, so didn’t) that I wondered how many people would question James Nachtwey or Don McCullin documenting the tragedy (or aftermath), as they have done in Rwanda, Darfur etc. The difference being (here comes a generalisation) that we know they are committed and caring individuals. And as for awards; both men have received many.
I don’t think there are any black and whites; just many shades of greys. There will be pj’s going to Haiti with the right thoughts in their minds, just as there will be glory seekers trying to make their name. Whether the ones with the right intention should go at all is a moot point because there are so many variables.
I remember Don McCullin saying in his autobiography that he decided to leave Cambodia (1970’s) when he saw 2 photographers pay a soldier to cut the heads off two bodies and pose for photos; he decided the place had gone too “crazy”. Again I’d hate to tar every photographer with the same brush…
But I suppose that is the peculiarity of the ethics involved in being a photographer, photojournalist or journalist. If there was no media there we wouldn’t be able to visualise the extent of the terrible tragedy/ies. Again; a real conundrum.
Seeing the front-end loaders clear bodies into the back of the truck to take to mass graves was heartbreaking. It reminded me of the scenes during the Rwandan civil war.
It comes down to every photographer, photojournalist or journalist needing to be comfortable with their personal ethics in this type of disastrous circumstance.
Jim (Powers); as for the US having no money to give to Haiti; there was no problem for the government to “find” a trillion dollars to bail out the banks… So I’m sure they can spare some for Haiti… But then again the “golden rule” applies; those with the gold make the rules…
Cheers
Photography is the only thing I’ve wanted to do. It’s what I’ve done for a living my entire life. But…there came a time when I realized all those snapshots stuck in my head were not worth it. I remember the images. Every wreck, every fire, every burned twisted body. I can tell you the story that goes along with 40 years of images. I can hear the screams of victims of train – auto collisions. The dark foggy nights, see the rotating lights of emergency vehicles on hundreds of lonely roads. The driver who fell asleep and crashed his truck into a pine tree at over 100 miles per hour, his brains shredded into the engine compartment as the force of the crash threw him through the windshield and forced his body through a four inch opening between the body and bent up hood of the car. Hundreds of these scenes. Thousands of photographs on the front page of newspapers.
Eventually, though, I came to realize that all I was doing was exploiting people’s misery and sadness. Sure, it sells newspapers, but I was little more than a voyeur, my currency was other people’s misery. So I stopped shooting misery. Decided the world didn’t need any more relentless sadness from my camera. And started looking at positive, uplifting stuff to shoot.
I don’t know where JN keeps all that crap in his head. But I know it’s there. And it changes you. It changes your relationships. To continue to do it comes at great personal cost. And for what? So folks can look at their morning paper, see a stack of rotting bodies in Haiti, comment to the wife how awful it is, then turn back to eating their Cheerios and the sports page? We are simply justifying in our minds this thing we do by believing we are helping humanity. Nonsense.
What we really are who shoot pain and misery is garbage collectors, and we get paid for collecting garbage, then we proudly display that garbage to others who are impressed with the lengths we went to collecting the garbage.
In my case it’s pretty simple. About 10 years ago I decided I had collected enough garbage and would shoot something different for the rest of my life. That continuing to collect garbage wasn’t worth the price. YMMV.
Jim – I could be wrong, but I don’t think JN’s photos grace across any papers… What he shoots is being used by organizations not dailies anymore… TIME yes, but not the daily rag.
And I think anything that appears in TIME by JN is going to be a very in-depth feature. Not some single shot to accompany a writer’s block of space.
Jim, do you still have all of those photographs you once took of the “garbage” in life? Perhaps there is some good YOU can do with them instead of leaving them in a box somewhere.
The difference between your description of a man having been mechanically separated in his sleep during a car crash and this photo by Susan Meiselas
http://www.edelmangallery.com/killer6.jpg is the reason it happened and who it affects. The story about the wreck is important to your community, people knew him, Although, you may have needlessly photographed or seen it the way you had.
Think to your-self “Why would anyone in Alaska (Congress, Canadia, Russia, Germany, Denmark, South Africa, Nigeria, Argentina, etc) care about this?” “Why is this important to the world?” “what will this say to others?”
Sure, I do agree many photographers are doing it for the wrong reasons. Many are young, brave, want to travel and think it’s “cool.” Their friends give them pats on the back and say “Wow man, great job! those photos were awesome!”
But James Nachtwey intends to reach deeper than the daily’s do. David Alan Harvey intends to reach deeper into the human soul than the Topeka capitol could. Fate – if you believe, or some universal power moved David from those early beginnings into the position he is now. His talent probably had a lot to do with it as well. But like JN, DAH’s heart’s somewhere else other than showing the world on a daily basis how bad it is out there.
.. I’m rambling. good night now.
KATHLEEN…BOB…
heartfelt comments ..uplifting
JIM…
your final comment also heartfelt…sad
DAVIN…
the woman in the Lavazza coffee ad was a professional model from one of the top agencies in Barcelona…….i cast 30 or so models and chose her because she seemed to be the most natural…i was looking for a model who i could put into a scene and let her “act” but without “posing”…the theme was sensuality…some form of sensuality but a cup of coffee had to appear in the picture somehow…not prominent, not a product shot, but just a cup somewhere in the picture…it was a dream for a commercial shoot…using my Leica, one lens, Tri-X, and no art director within 500 miles..i could put her in a scene and then just move around as a photojournalist knowing she was in her own world and i was in mine….other than needing the cup in the picture, there were no other parameters…i chose Spain…i chose Cadaques…i chose the model…i created the mood…the model was just 15 or 16 i think…she was on the agency roster (Elite i believe), yet needed her parents to sign off on the model release and the ad…i worked all day and into the night with this model…she never tired, which was amazing…when we were not shooting, she managed to find a basketball court and shot hoops in her time off…a real wannabe athlete, and “tom boy” type off camera, jeans, tshirt, no makeup etc…..but, an adult woman on camera…a great fun shoot all around…her mother told me this shoot would pay for her college education…cool…it certainly helped me pay for my son’s college education….cool too…if you are going to do ad work, you want one like this…
cheers, david
p.s…as an aside and perhaps to lighten the spirit of the above discussion on Nachtwey , all should know that JN does not just shoot misery in b&w…he and i have been on at least two ad campaigns together (along with McCurry, Erwitt and others)….shooting in different places, but the same campaign….once for Kodak (JN shot Bali and i shot in Indonesia) and once for Toyota trucks (JN shot construction workers and i shot cowboys)….all color
p.s.s…sorry, but when i tried to move your link into my comment, i lost it completely and somehow deleted it from your comment…laughing…i still do not know how to work a computer properly…shhhhhh…..can you post it again please? just in case someone wants to see what we are talking about…
Jim, not looking at garbage will not prevent it from piling behind your front door.
JIM:
Thank you for sharing your current outlook on your photography; it certainly helps to put things in perspective. I’m thankful for the James Nachtweys of the the world, that can affect change and can carry the burden that they do. I know that I could not, and that’s OK…
For me, it’s all about balance. I NEED the James Nachtweys to show me the injustice in the world, and how I might be able to my part to change things… but I also NEED the Jim Powers to show me the joy of life (your children in the rain shots come to mind). Show me the 100-year-old grandma at her birthday celebration. It’s all about balance…
JUSTIN…
well put…thanks
Jason:
to your earlier question above about the use of black and white film:
http://www.apple.com/ca/pro/profiles/nachtwey/index2.html
I don’t mean to bring up this subject of how PJ is or isn’t voyeuristic, but I think one important point is being missed, though I have not read through all the comments and it may well of been mentioned, and this is, the Media broadcasters. I think much of the publics interpretation of “news”, which photography is really there to support, often boils down to the quality of the Media outlet.
So trashy sensationalist broadcasters don’t mean that the morality of journalism, generally, should be brought in to disrepute.
As far as some people who follow tragic events from one to another, this may often be the circumstance of employment they have found themselves in. What they come to know as their way of life. There are worse things, just look at politics…
I think Jim “get the point”. James Nachtwey is now in Haiti taking pictures next mass graves, corps, death, pain, despair and anger. And yes, this is his job, he makes big money on it and yes he made a name on it. But beside that James is incredible good photographer this is something what I respect him for most. He is like doctor, worker in dissecting room. He is doing the job I can’t do. He do it with respect and quiet passion because THIS IS A PART OF THIS BLOODY LIFE.
He is not a hyena only because he do something what is dark part of humanity. He don’t kill, he capture a history of killing. But yes he earn a money on it. This is called job.
But for sure many a journalist are like hyena. I live in small country where journalists waiting for something happen waiting for death or catastrophe because no one what to make a carrier sooting farmers.
I’m thankful for the James Nachtweys of the the world
———————————————
That’s the problem. there is only one.
Meant in both ways:
1)whatever you are reporting on, there is such a thing as being a Great Photographer, and one whose greatness comes also from total dedication to what he has been doing, for years. Nachtwey fits in on both counts.
At the same time, What Jim (our Jim!) says is not untrue. No cynism here. None of us are really sure that the photos being taken now in Haiti by zillion concerned photographers are made out of a compassionate wish to report and bear witness rather than being there, for very logical professional reasons, and fighting with the competition to get “their” shots out rather than the colleague’s. And i think it is perfectly understandable for someone to think/find that Nachtwey fits in that category too, no matter how “great”.
My feelings are that, for a good part, when you shoot (“in the zone”), you are but a hunter, just like if you are a soldier in battle, your own opinions about why you fight, and killing another human being, are simply not of the matter.
2)Let’s face it, it’s a thankless task, most photographers are but an anonymous crowd, closer to the proof-reading staff of newspaper and TV newsroom, than the writer/editor or anchor’s chair. So, there is and will always be a Nachtwey or 2, very few in any case per generation of conflicts, and most likely the plethora of names that made history during the glorious years of famed PJ-ism (ended with Vietnam war) will never be repeated. there are no NachtweyS to be thanked. Only one (that is, when his pictures brought money for fighting TB).
PS: Money and USA. yeah….How much of one’s own credit does anyone put on the line to help, for ex. aids in Africa (that is: borrowing, since bail-out and stimulus $ were borrowed).
easy to blame ze “govnmt”… more difficult to look into the mirror.
When was the last time (y)our choice and quandary to buy a camera was between a newer 5DII, the likes of Nikon or leica, and sending that money to help poor kids somewhere?
Herve..;)
why Leica with Not a capital L..?
btw..hows Thailand?
big hug
ATTENTION…
AKAKY..and the rest of Facebook gang…
there is a virus going on around..if you receive any weird message or Link from me..
do NOT open unless its very specific or expected…i also got some very strange , suspicious
links from supposedly facebook “friends”…
now…more moustache news…
I just finished another quick tour in the capital of moustaches…
two new photo Links to be posted tomorrow i hope…one (explicit) has to do with a crazy
Porn festival that just happened ( so dont open at work or at school )… and the other is
related to the greek Hip Hop scene… so, soonest..i hope everyone is at good health..
im ready to depart for western northern grecolandia in an hour for a 6 hour trip…
again..see u guys later
big hug
jim power house…
you raise an interesting point, again though i think part of your over generalized conclusion is unsound..
i understand where you are coming from with not wanting to cover such appalling subjects any more..
by 25 i was in therapy following 7 years of seeking out tough subjects which bought me into all kinds of circumstances of mortality.. one of which happened to be a friend and TB sufferer literally coughing up his lungs, after which myself and a few friends cut down a couple of trees and disposed of his corpse..
just for context.
what i felt when he died is difficult to express, of course.. it was profoundly different from the car accidents.. victims of guns or beatings because it was preventable – unnecessary. it made me angry more than sad. my father had tb in post war london as a child – and went on to live a full enough life until his early 50´s, dying of an unrelated illness.
the waste and frustration of seeing someone die because of a containable ailment needs to be documented and shown – not for the social-porn value which newspapers place on ´the beautiful corpse´, (an obsession which seems unique to the minority world, where mortality does not confront our everyday) – but because it can and does actually cause change.. to be frank, much of the social porn these days is on our t.v. in shows which replay horrific beatings, car crashes and the like, narrated by ¨hollywood presents¨ type voices, with a backing track of testosterone fulled electronic music.
these shows, and this kind of attitude, changes nothing of course.
regardless – like you i decided to take myself down a different road and focus on celebration of life.. hedonistic excess.. the compelling and infectious state of wha? with all it´s high and low lights and lives.
this also has the power to change – sometimes directly and other times by knock on effect – the lives of the subjects.
in my case, working with musicians and promoters seeking to bring culture and joy back into the lives of children who lived through wars, and reunite the new generations of opposing sides.
my friend in the balkans peddling his punk band around countries and doing
¨the most important thing¨
he has ever done deserves press which helps toward his goal of unity – and i can bring that to the table.. just as james needs to bring press to the efforts of doctors and nurses.. and he can do that.
anyway.
that is where my work has settled and i would hope that those who still photograph tougher subjects are gracious enough to accept what i do, as i am gracious enough to accept what they do…. it is easy to say my work is frivolous as it is easy to say their work is gratuitous – it is much more difficult to argue that either choice of work is ineffectual, as you exert.
this is the point at which i find your conclusion difficult to swallow.
lifes extremes of joy and pain are both worthy of documentation, distribution and attention. it is not possible to discredit one and value the other – if you hide from the one you are also reigning in your understanding of the other. to say that there is little value in the continued documentation of suffering because it does not change anything is to also say the same about the opposing force in which you now indulge.
your own body of work concerning joy is meaningless without your body of work concerning pain, and if you believe that your work brings a smile of pleasure, the choice of photos your paper runs gives someone an easier day, then it must be the case that work of the opposite nature has the ability to inflict an effect…
the best of PJ work concerning suffering effects change..
the much more base kind of work concerning suffering is exploitative and crass.. social porn for the masses who no longer have to confront mortality on a daily basis, and for whom the sight of it brings that intregue a child has on seeing a dead bird…
perhaps it´s working in the latter field which has warped your perspective so?
in any case – we also have part of photography which is the photographer..
it is not only the photographs which are at work in publications, but also the photographer who is at work behind the camera.. hooking people up.. aiming their intentions.. directly and in the moment helping a cause on the ground – not only with their camera but with their lecture tours, their encouragement, the connections they can offer to subjects.. the long term investment of time in which they try not only to photograph but also to help more directly..
in fact, right down to the monetary help which many of the best pitch in with it could be said that it´s the person with the camera who is the power behind any change which occurs.. they are just as valid in the equation of finding a solution.
change = (photographs + photographer) x effort
james´ photography is great for technical and theoretical accumplishment.. and at a guess what may separate him from the masses could be his compassion and the time he spends without a camera in his hand working for the chosen cause.
i´d rather know that he is in haiti working hard than any wire or stringer begging for flights through NGO´s.. because i´m certain it will not just be his photographs that are working hard..
and if he earns money? well.. we all have rent and food to pay for.
hope my points survive the digression and mumblings above.. it´s a common and clearly circular argument you have settled for jim – and the fact is that the generalization you push can, and needs to be, broken down in order to see where you are right and where you can be challenged.
David B,
as usual, beautifully considered and eloquently put.
I have been struggling to put my thoughts in a rational and diplomatic fashion, then you come along and post this. I can add very little.
Regards
ian
Marcin,
thanks for posting the scans, I glad your worries were unfounded. looking forward to getting a glimpse of the rest.
Cheers
ian
P.S. nice pics by the way
“When was the last time (y)our choice and quandary to buy a camera was between a newer 5DII, the likes of Nikon or leica, and sending that money to help poor kids somewhere?”
Good point Herve, but I think it mean nothing.
When We will satisfy the basic needs of this poor kids in africa, I would like to see them so reach like ours children, it’s mean I would like to see them in clean houses with nice toys, not at work, with good clothes and smile on their face, and when they grow up I would like to see them so satisfy just like people from commercial from tv. It’s mean I would like to see them with new 5dII and M9.
If we resigned to buy newer cameras it should make a step forward and stop buying newer clothes we don’t need and send the money for poor kids.
And then is quite close to remove all poorness from the world!!!
But there will be no richness also.
Wait a minute I know this model… It was called communism. Isn’t it?
Everyone equal.
No progress.
quickly everyone are poor and hungry.
WE ARE the poor children, but this part who have a big bloody luck.
The truth is that if you buy a new M9 you did more for poor than sending a money. Why? Because someone ear a money, a boss ear a huge money of course, but also a thousands people have a part on it, people from Chine, India and their children have something to eat. And even The boss who will but a new BMW will give a job for a thousands people in Germany, Poland, Italy, China, India, Indonesia, Thailand and feed a thousands of hungry children (don’t forget, we are hungry every day).
This is great that we have a compassion, but compassion is only a part of this world. Compassion is need when catastrophe like on Haiti is done, or when UNICEF ask us for money, Or when I was born to serve poor people, not when I woke up in the morning. When we woke up we should think how to earn money for bills and a new 5DII.
Thanks Ian, I have a 20 more film, but they have to wait a little bit longer. I will publish something new soon. This pictures are from mamiya 7II with I was not work too much before, so I am surprised when I see this photos. Regret I had to sold it.
Everybody has a reason to do what they do.
Stanley Greene ….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_qiEEe-SxM&feature=player_embedded#
Very appropriate considering the conversation we are having here.
Cheers
ian
I MEANT TO SAY, WARNING THERE ARE SOME PRETTY SHOCKING IMAGES IN THE ABOVE LINK
I am sorry but sometimes when I read our comments it remind be a breakfast television, everyday someone have to say something a deep truth and then someone have to add a deeper truth and it change nothing,
but show must go on.
Day after day. Agreement and disagreement.
ian – there´s a great video for showing how life influences change our practice..
…
marcin
if i still took drugs to excess here is the point where i would begin arguing for a world-wide contingency fund which would tax the richer governments and work for the poorer..
or i would argue that profits from natural resources belong to the world rather than the country / extraction company, and need to be pooled to feed the hungry.
or perhaps suggest that we spike the world leaders water at the u.n. with m.d.m.a. and pipe gentle background music through their headphones until they agreed to stop war… releasing funds for constructive use.
back n the dark days i´d probably believe all that for a couple of hours, then stagger into the kitchen to make some tea and a sandwich or pass out, and do nothing.
the point is that hopefully when we are away from the computers we are all doing something constructive..
or perhaps not :ø)
Jim…
As per usual, your arguments make sense—as in there is undeniable logic behind them—but there is also something creeping underneath the whole persona you project that I find bothersome.
By your own account you’re a guy who works for a paper which “knows what your readers/subscribes are interested in” and are catering it to them, consciously avoiding publishing misery and suffering, in effect tweaking how the world really looks like in order for it to fit to your readers view points.
I do have my own doubts about most of the people who choose to cover the dark sides of humanity, but JM is not one of them. He somehow manages to bring a sense of balance in his coverage of situations that are *way* off balance and he manages to inform instead of providing a cheap thrill. Now if his personal gain is bigger than the help his subjects receive because of his work, well you might have a point there—not sure though how you can accurately measure this. But regarding if he should be shooting what he shoots… well, would you prefer him shooting still-lifes? or American football? or children playing with water on a summer day?
Also, in reference to the examples you mentioned from your career, it’s one thing to put a single picture of a gruesome accident on the front page of a newspaper and quite another to go and do an in-depth photo-essay on the reasons behind such accidents, such as drinking driving, sleep deprivation of professional drivers etc, etc…
To be clear, I’m in no way trying to teach you any lessons here or change your well-thought-out views. It’s just that you’re too vocal about your opinions.
I respect Jim’s thought processes and conclusions when he speaks only for himself. The problem is he seems to think that everyone else should come to the same conclusions, to believe the same things, to take the same kinds of photos. That’s where I diverge. There’s room in this world for many points of view.
In the current debate, while I, too, am often disgusted by photographers wallowing in what I call “poverty porn” or being vulture-like at the scene of terrible disasters and human tragedies, David makes a good point that in this case, and many others, real good comes from artfully documenting these realities.
But back somewhat to my areas of agreement with Jim… Although I agree that it’s valid to document the dark sides of reality, I think it’s equally valid to document all types of reality. If the proverbial alien from outer space were to judge the world by looking at photojournalism, they would likely conclude it was an unrelentingly hellish place where grainy black and white creatures suffer the tortures of the damned. Personally, I like to see a more realistic balance. There are people who have fun in this world. That’s one of the aspects of David’s work that I very much appreciate. It’s very honest in that sense. I see that kind of outlook reflected a lot less on burn, but it is not non-existent. The Blues essay and the Orthodox Jews at the beach are two ready examples of not-so-superficially-grim realities that have been published since I’ve been paying attention.
Personally, I haven’t looked at the current essay because the first picture tells me it’s horribly grim and I really don’t want to see that right now. It’s not that I don’t think it should be documented. I think that people who haven’t seen that kind of thing need to get some idea of what it’s like for so many who suffer horribly in this world. But I have seen things as bad and most likely much worse than anything likely to be in that essay, so I trust it’s morally safe for me to skip it. But yea, the more politicians and other generally blind folk leading cushy lives who see it, the better.
“The most authentic thing about us is our capacity to create, to overcome, to endure, to transform, to love and to be greater than our suffering.”
Ben Okri (Nigerian author who uses magic realism to convey the social and political chaos in his country, 1959)
THANK YOU ALL …for your thoughts…and your postings…
I knew it that you are …MY PHOTOPHILOSOPHERS !!!
“It’s just that you’re too vocal about your opinions.”
That’s an interesting concept, especially considering it is opined in a discussion where most folks are arguing that we need to see, strongly, photos on all sides of an issue.
I think what you really mean is that I’m too confident in my opinions or that you just don’t want to hear them. Also an odd concept considering.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY THOMAS BREGULLA…our Everyday Man !!!
you might have a broken leg BUT you have BURNing wings…
P.S BURNIANS …keep it up …keep it rolling…I TRUST YOU
MICHAEL…JIM
you both know that i understand where you are coming from….Inferno, Jim’s monolith , stays largely unopened in my library….i know what is in there and generally i do not feel the need to go back..and i never could make myself photograph for the newspaper the traffic accidents to which Jim refers….it was never a revelation for me after years of ambulance chasing, i always knew chasing police lights was not for me….yes, it is all balance…sorry, suddenly have to go out..will pick this up later…
cheers, david
“Confidence comes not from always being right but from not fearing to be wrong.”
I think that BURNIANS are a very confident group of people…
WHAT NOT TO LOVE…more Sponsors to come…I know …I can feel it…
because everyone here is very confident …THANK YOU !!!
P.S Red Cross in Greece is working hard…UNIVERSE … I am confident :)))
OUZO on me tonight.
VIVA !!! Come on BURNIANS …be confident…be yourselves …I love you
not sure if it’s been posted or not… Haiti was hit with another earthquake this morning – a 6.1 magnitude about 36 miles from Port au Prince ..
Region: HAITI REGION
Geographic coordinates: 18.428N, 72.875W
Magnitude: 6.1 M
Depth: 9 km
Universal Time (UTC): 20 Jan 2010 11:03:44
Time near the Epicenter: 20 Jan 2010 06:03:44
Local standard time in your area: 20 Jan 2010 11:03:44
Location with respect to nearby cities:
41 km (26 miles) WNW (301 degrees) of Jacmel, Sud-Est, Haiti
49 km (31 miles) WSW (257 degrees) of Carrefour, Ouest, Haiti
59 km (36 miles) WSW (257 degrees) of PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti
Well I guess that was south and in the ocean so probably no damage…
No, what I mean is that you say the same thing over and over again—you’re being “loud”
As for you being too confident in your opinions… well, we all are confident that our opinions are correct, otherwise we would change them.
I do read all your posts and I do agree with many your assessments, but what I dislike is your attitude. I don’t know you and therefore I might be way off, but from your own posts you seem to be a middle-of-the-road kind of guy. You preach about ethics in black and white terms while your own life seems to be a shade of gray.
You speak your mind as if you were someone like Kratochvil, while you’re not.
On a completely different but fascinating topic, non visual photography…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pxng2/In_Touch_19_01_2010/
Really interesting to see what is being done with photography workshops for the blind, who would have thought……
Cheers
ian
CIVI,
thank you very much :)
I hope, the leg gets better soonest and I can carry a camera in my hands instead of those sticks to carry me…
cheers,
Thomas
Happy Birthday Thomas!
Thankyou all for such a stimulating discussion.
The world has always been full of misery and injustice, and yes, we need to be continually reminded and educated. Electronic communication floods us with it, easy to become overloaded and give up hope that the world will ever be different.
It is only a part of the spectrum however. I try to remain an optomist. I do believe that global enlightenment and compassion is growing.
As brutal and painful as the present essay is, I also find it incredibly up-lifting. I see a huge heart at work.
Like Jim, I mostly choose to photograph what is joyful. It is not really rose coloured glasses, but a reflection of where I try to direct my energy. It is a question of balance.
My favourite personal photograph from ’09 http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/114402937 My amazing wife Martha, visiting her long-time friend Judy. Judy is love personified. She has raised four children, and, for the past twenty plus years has cared for two profoundly handicapped women.
I think all we can do is to put forward our own personal perspective and Jim P’s has as much face validity as anyone else. Jim P has arrived at his opinions and perspective from his personal experience as each of us has. It is important that we engage one another in this way to find the higher truth. Not one of us has ownership of it just another spectrum of reality seen through our own prism. That being said we can agree/disagree, take offense, react emotionally all of which are valid human responses. I hope that in the process we are all learning something from each other.
MARCIN
I guess being from Eastern Europe you are closer to the remnants of Communism so the lure of the Capitalist model is compelling. The reality we are coming to terms with in the West is that the Capitalist model as it currently exists is based on exponential growth. Growth of profits year over year. This is unsustainable from an economic perspective and from a environmental perspective. The only systems in the natural world that demonstrate exponential growth are cancers and bacteria, both of which die once they have consumed their host. The culture of consumption is the cancer of the planet and is the necessary fuel for Capitalism. I am not advocating for Communism but the answer is not buying more stuff. Actually I would rather spend $10,000 on a camera and know that it will last a lifetime vs spending $500 on something that is designed to fall apart become obsolete and end up in a land fill.
On the topic of the $ 1 trillion dollar bail out you say this money was borrowed. From whom. Who has $ 1 trillion dollars lying around? No government on the planet has reserves of $ 1 trillion hidden in a vault somewhere. This “money” was created by the Federal Reserve (create Treasury Bills they hope foreign countries/investors will buy). The Federal Reserve has the power to create money out of nothing and “loan” it to the US government and charge interest for it. That is the beauty of fractional reserve banking. But you may say that the Federal Reserve is part of the government. In fact it is not. It is owned by private individuals and families which run the banking system. Banks create money out of thin air give it to you and charge you interest for their trouble. If banks can create money out of thin air to bail themselves out then surely they can create money out of thin air to help world suffering. But alas most of the banks are in fact the ones who finance both sides of many of the conflicts througout history. They make money from human suffering as do photojournalists. I just hope that as photographers we bring light to what is happening, as well as to document the beauty of the human spirit. I think people like JN become the conscience of those in power. They need to see the human cost of their actions. Whether they are moved to change, or if people in general are moved to change how they look at the world remains to be seen.
Good point Herve, but I think it mean nothing.
—————————
Marcin, I did not mean to say here’s what we should all do (buy only a compact and send money to poor kids…).
I only meant it in that sense:
To stop asking why govnmt this and govnmt that, and start looking into oneself (but also those close around us).
Because obviously, if you do, lest you think yourself a saint, you will see the same shortcomings that you deplore in govnmts, and see that in one’s own way, we are all witholding “billions of dollars” (figure of speech) because of deep-seated fear, ignorance and self-love.
That was all. Nothing against buying a 5D2. After all, as we say in france:
“Charite bien ordonnee commence par soi-meme”… ;-)
DAVIN,
A few years back I was up for a big ad job. It turned out I was up against a big name Magnum photographer. I looked at his numerous ad work (I really had none) and thought there was no fucking way I was getting this job. In the end the creatives and client thought I was a better fit for the subject and actually preferred my compositional style. This was pretty much all on the basis of my grunge work, even though a large portion of the campaign didn’t involve music subjects at all. So like DAH confers, show who you are and not what you think somebody wants you to be.
RE PHOTOJOURNALISM:
There was a recent survey that listed the top 200 jobs in America based on various criteria such as pay, stress, benefits, retirement, etc etc. Photojournalists ranked at 189, just above being a butcher, and
actually below being a dishwasher! Food for thought…
RE NACHTWEY:
The only false step I’ve seen Nachtwey take IMO was a gallery show I saw in LA a few years back. There was just something incredibly wrong about blowing up photos of others people misery to wall size and putting a $6K price tag on it. I did notice that none had sold (at that point) though 16X20 versions were. Maybe that was the idea, but the size of the photographs considering the subject matter was off putting. I could see one or two as an intro to the show but the a whole room full was just too much.
That said I find his photography very moving and compelling, and any demons he may have to deal with are his own, same as everyone else. And by directly confronting the misery of the world and making it his lifelong purpose, he may sleep more comfortably than you can imagine. An example: earlier last year during an ayahuasca ceremony there was a first time participant, a man in his late fifties/early sixties who is a zen meditation teacher. Now one of the lessons of doing ayahuasca (a strong Amazonian hallucinogenic medicine ) is to surrender to what is. Well he freaked out and for about an hour was screaming “make it stop, make it stop!” The shaman tried to help, but to no avail. This person couldn’t surrender and just let it be, no matter how difficult and terrifying the visions were – despite the fact that of his long training as a zen meditator. He most likely shoved his pain and misery away with a veneer of peace and “om” and the medicine ripped it open.
I’m off to face my own demons this weekend with two more ayahuasca ceremonies. It’s not an easy process (I’m already getting nervous), which in the end makes it that much more rewarding. In the west we just want to take a pill to make the pain to go away. In eastern and southern cultures healing is a process, like peeling away layers of an onion, to get to the core of the problem. It can be exruciating peeling away those layers, exposing that which we would rather remain hidden.
CHARLES…
did you steal that ad job from me?? smiling..one thing for all to know who seek ad jobs is that an art director may first look at the “name” , but will not hire for the “name”…no matter how much the art buyers may like your work personally, the clients rarely know one photog from another and only care about their particular campaign…point is, the ad game is wide open for those who so choose to enter…just beware of the pitfalls..
i am a photographer and i was in the past a dishwasher…always figured i had moved up a bit on the job scale after dishwashing, but alas your survey proves me wrong…actually, there were some advantages to being a dishwasher…mostly in my case because i was in love with one of the waitresses who was “old”, like probably 21 or something (now this is high school stuff)…it was definitely the summer of my content, so dishwashing holds some fond memories…i never made it to waiter, or better, to bartender…i still covet the bar tending job (i will bet that job is way way above photographer)…and have some fantasies to be a taxi driver in New York (ranking??)…i guess it is not too late…
cheers, david
Frank,
I my heart I am socialist, ideologically I fully agree and support that rich people should share and take care about the poor sick and hungry part of the world. But we live in very specific system and there is no option. In my opinion in system called capitalism things get their truth nature. Their bright and dark nature. People because their freedom can be creative, ambitious, stubborn in what they want, but also lazy, greedy and just stupid. And I think it is most natural way for humanity, even if one day it fill finish with end of humanity. But anyway it still works that’s why We can dream about 5DII and send some money to unicef at once.
All I wanted to say that I wish give the rest of the world the same freedom as we have it’s mean I hope there will be a day when children in Africa will dream about M9 camera and worldwide fame as a photographer or fashion designer or engineer, not only about food for next day. And yes we still have the freedom, if we want to live with nature we can buy a ground and a cow, just if we want.
Charles; “Photojournalists ranked at 189, just above being a butcher”
Well I was a butcher before I went freelance. So that means it’s taken me 46 years to move one spot up the ladder; woooo hoooo!!! I’m curious now, what job do I have to go for when I’m 92 to move up one more spot? :-)
Charles ;))))
was that for Doc Marten’s?? :))))…i loved your shots/story for that campaign…oddly, i saw if just after i got ‘touch me i’m sick’……
and my friend from brazil has spokent to me about ayahuasca …..u too, if i remember….it’s true…many meditators (including teachers i know) dont deal, dont let go, but actually repress under a veneer of calm…a long retreat forces you to not repress….i think i could listen to the dragon….most of the demons are gone….still some to relinquish, but each year improves…..we gotta tlk about meditation’;/ayahusasca/fears/anger some time :)))..
Charles/David:
i too have been a dishwater…and now i get all anal when someone (read: my son) doesnt wash dishes thoroughly ;)))…was a great gig, i was 16, free beer, free chinese food, long talks with the beautiful chinese university student with the accent that broke my heart (and made me not want to go to any of my highschool prom/dances)…..beeen a writer (still am), teacher (still am), journalist (gone), secretary, security guard (hotel), life guard (beach), english teacher, factory worker (a bunch), a university professor assistant (caltech), a medical transcribist, whatever i had to do to give me time, money for $$ and books and later film…..anything that gave me the freedom to write what i wanted to write and photograph (before paint) what i wanted to make….the pefect ‘photo’ job is tht which allows you to do waht it is that gets you jonzed to make pics….
running
b
hihihiiiiiiiiiii…nice bio BOBBY…
If I wasn’t a civilian…I would love to be you !!!
CHARLES…nice to hear from you…kisses to FELIX…
BURNIANS…just remember…even one euro …can make a difference…
it’s working … I witness this everyday…
we can do this for BURN…too.
one euro …every month…can make a difference…!!!
I believe in you …
Jim;
Thanks for so eloquently articulating your viewpoint (re; why you shot “the good”). Yes; we do need to be reminded of the good and the bad. I think it is just as easy to forget that there is good in the world (and forever see the negative) as it is to close your eyes and ignore the bad.
Cheers
Hi All,
Great discussion taking place here and under the Struggle to Live thread. I’ve posted this message in both places.
In response to those who have wondered ‘what’s changed’ since these images were first seen via TED, here are just a few of the gains made since then…
1. During the TED launch, both presidential candidates made statements that they would support TB funding were they elected: http://blog.ted.com/2008/10/obama_and_mccai.php
2. A few days after the Congressional reception “Seeing Change” with James, Congress included a contribution of $100 million for the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria as part of its FY2009 Supplemental Appropriations bill.
3. On December 16, 2009 President Obama signed the FY2010 Minibus Appropriations Bill. The Bill contained $1.05 billion for the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria in 2010. This is the largest appropriation from the U.S. government to the Global Fund since its inception in 2002.
What hasn’t changed is that people are still dying needlessly.
This is still a major health issue and as such, it needs to be kept front and center. Undoubtedly, there remains a long way to go and we can all contribute by helping spread the word — by referring your friends here to view this powerful presentation, by tweeting, by posting a link to your social network sites and doing what you can to keep the fight against TB alive.
Please, I hope you will help. Every little bit counts.
Kerry
p.s. With thanks to Rebecca at James Nachtwey Studio for providing me with the statistical data I’ve included here.
DAH,
Nah, it was ER actually, who I highly admire. I guess they had considered Reza for it as well.
BOB,
Yeah, I find many western meditators to be really highly strung, uptight people. Exactly the opposite with Tibetan monks etc that I’ve met who can be very funny and easygoing. It’s all about expectations and putting on of personas. Yeah lets talk about all that some time. I did a ten day silent retreat once. Amazing and amazingly difficult. Almost bailed after four days – glad I stuck it out.
CIVILIAN,
Felix will get many kisses when I pick him up from the nanny today. Thanks!
CP
ian aitken:
thanks for highlighting the work being done by photovoice with blind photographers. I volunteered for two weeks along with recent Burn contributor Chloe Dewe Matthews on the first UK workshop almost 3 years ago. Chloe went on to work with Photovoice in China. It’s a great project.
FRANK…
you are quite right when it comes to one person having as much a right to their opinions as anyone else..and based on their own parameters for whatever reason….good….my only problem in some cases here is that an opinion is stated..fine…an intelligent counterpoint is made strongly…and then there is silence…in other words no discussion…..just a one way street…a oratorical drive by shooting…opinions are fine…..all of them…but, in a forum like this, which often takes on the form of clear honest debate, there should also be response to counterpoint…..otherwise what is the point of making a point??
YES, there is no point …if we don’t make a point…
I have been waiting so long for these debates…BURNing debates…
as long as…there is a point…
P.S BURN was getting tedious…
have you not been tired to hear the…
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLL…geez…I was getting tired of myself …
THANK YOU UNIVERSE !!!…please donate…as long as …there is a point
“what is the point of making a point??”
This is also a question
There is an inherent problem with forum debates… we all have lives outside the web and we also live in different time zones… whatever Jim might write, I won’t read for the next 10 hours or so…
I hope I didn’t offend him, even though I’m relatively sure he’s silence the past few hours was due to the 3d life outside Burn and not due to what I wrote above…
‘night all…
he’s = his…
sorry, sleepy…
I’m backing up a bit, but DAH made a VERY important point a few comments
back about web vs. print image value. In my world many of my
images are used on the web. I do not work with my clients based on one
medium or the other. I have a fee, which is somewhat negotiable but
that fee cannot be compromised by allowing my work to be valued at a lower
rate “just because it’s on the web”. An image IS just as valuable on the web
as in print. Do not give away the ownership of your work!!!
As DAH has expressed, the tide is turning.
Marcin,
I am not in favor of aid to Africa. I think aid has destroyed Africa, to be honest. What does aid do, anyway? In the short term it maybe, MAYBE helps to some extent, that which isn’t stolen by corrupt officials and gets to the most poor. But the real problem in Africa isn’t too little aid, it is too much. Africa has become dependent on aid. What Africa must do is develop self-sufficiency, be independent and not rely on hand outs. When you say rich people SHOULD support the poor, you are on dangerous territory. Such a mentality quickly changes from should to must, and from there it is one step to what we had in Poland. Do you know what happens when people come to rely on hand outs from others? They give up trying to improve themselves. Read Kapuscinski, who described what he saw in African refugee camps. People who had given up trying, who just waited around for the aid. I live in Korea. The amazing thing is that maybe 4 decades ago Korea was poorer than Haiti or some African nations now. Korea did the right thing, instead of becoming an aid receiver, they implemented reforms and turned things around mostly on its own. That’s because they did get aid, but not so much that it destroyed their thinking. Should rich people help? I have a huge problem requiring people to help others. If you do that, you are infringing on individual and property rights, and that is the cornerstone of a democratic society. People should have the absolute freedom to help but also the absolute freedom to refuse to help. Anything else is a slippery slope to socialism, and socialism has never, and will never work.
Read Dambisa Moyo’s “Dead Aid.” She is an African economist and she wants all aid to Africa stopped in 10 years. Why is it that we KNOW what works. We have examples of nations that were once poor and are now powerful economic players. Korea, China, Japan, and we know how they went from poor to rich. And it wasn’t through trillions of dollars of aid. Id love anyone to point me to a single example of a country getting out of poverty solely through aid. Just one. Why is it then that we keep trying to go down that route with Africa? Africa has had DECADES of independence. What failed isn’t us, the Western nations, it is African leaders who have failed.
We should help Haiti now. What should the help look like after the earthquake? Is Haiti going to be a dumping ground for aid or will Haiti build its system from the ground up on sound economic policies, free from corruption? If not, and we can help them do it, then aid, just as with Africa, will enslave them.
THODORIS..
good point about the time zone bit….also moods tend to be one way in the morning and another way at night for most people also making communication harder…however, i have never had the impression you have ever offended anyone here on Burn…when you disagree, you make a reasoned argument…spirited perhaps, but clean….whatever silence you perceive, i am sure is not because of anything you wrote..the tough punchers here are tough…
100˚+ F…………. ahh the beach,,,,,,,,a couple of days with a great sea breeze 75˚ F that is what is in store for me tomorrow
RAFAL…
yours was a rather brilliant piece supporting forcefully and clearly representing the philosophy of what we would call here in the U.S. the Republican “Right” party…i happen to be from what we call here in the U.S. the Democratic “Socialist” party…however, as on most positions of policy and politics i can often see both sides…and i rarely seriously disagree with the major premise of circumstance from either the right or the left….so i do agree with everything you say is wrong, but probably disagree with how to solve it….i WISH your way would work….that would be just PERFECT…but, i just do not think things work out that way…i.e. comparing what happened in Korea to what should happen in Africa now makes no sense to me…saying a small country as South Korea was once as poor as Africa is now, and therefore an entire continent made up of many cultures, should be able to follow this shining example, is eliminating a whole bunch of historical and cultural factors that mitigate beyond the beyond any similarities of cultures and circumstances…
believe me i do share your sense of the importance of self reliance…i do think everyone should do the best they can to take care of themselves if at all possible…i believe in the independent spirit and for those who are capable , they should do all they can to educate themselves, take care of their families first, and be overall responsible citizens…however, for many reasons, not everyone CAN do this…you have ambition Rafal…but, not everyone shares this…that means in your competitive world , you would run all over someone who was not as competitive or ambitious as you…not everyone, even though theoretically they SHOULD work the way as do you, simply either will not or cannot….people make mistakes…bad decisions….become injured physically or psychologically…life deals many hands… no matter what the circumstance my guess is that there is probably always about 25-40% of any population that would fall into one of these two categories..i think this is just simple logical reality…you are not going to ever have a world of 100% self reliant people… work towards it, encourage it, yes yes yes..by every means possible….but always realize that social responsibility falls upon us all…not to encourage the abusers of social aid, but to make mandate for all of us to lend a hand to those who may need it most…
cheers, david
It takes a fair amount of generations to instrument any change cultural,practical,social etc……… even as simple as people who are forced to flee their birthplace for a new one. It takes a long time before there is an acceptance that they are no longer the past but are the new and that is only fully realised a few generations along.
There are cultural factors but the situation isn’t as different as it appears now. Korea for example was for a long time a colony, just as was Africa. It had a corrupt government, just as does most of Africa. In fact, Korea had been a weak, vassal for centuries before the Japanese even came in, and when the war ended in Korea it was devastated, it was poorer than Haiti now.
I think the problem with any aid as supported by people like Bono is that it is done more to appease our own self-guilt than it is to help. But aid when given too freely, has a debilitating effect. Why is so much of Africa now reliant on aid? because aid has killed their will to be self-reliant. It is something that people realized long ago and we have sayings like “give a man a fish he will be fed for a day, teach him to fish and he will never go hungry.” But beyond folksy sayings we have real examples of ways to make countries work, and ways to kill them. Africa has been a disaster, most of it, because of aid. The countries that are successful there are ones that weren’t drowned in aid. Emerging powerhouses like China, Korea, India, Brazil were not drowned in aid. Yet, despite there being no evidence of aid working, it is still pushed. The ONLY country that went from a net aid receiver to a net aid donor is Korea, and Korea emerged mostly due to self imposed reforms here starting around the 1970s. What Africa has to do is to have an incentive to develop beyond just getting a hand out.
About what I wrote to Marcin, I think it may be semantics, but its important. Saying people should help others is dangerous because should is an imperative. Whenever we impose things on people we roll back their freedoms and liberties and in this case it goes right to the heart of property rights. While it would be nice if people helped others, to start using words like should, becomes dangerous, its a slippery slope that leads to must. Its a slippery slope to communism, which is based on rolling back all property rights, collectivization in the name of the communal good. Yes, people should be appluaded to help. Good for people that donated to Haiti.
I however am of the same mind as Norman Bowie, whose idea of the moral minimum I subscribe to. We should at most not do any bad, but to require us to do good is too much. People can be encouraged and applauded to do good but when we start requiring this, it becomes dangerous. But even if it is nice if people help, help is dangerous, as in the case of Africa, because it alters the societal mindset. Now, you say I am ambitious, and I am. However I wasn’t always, and I know that getting help can kill ambition. No all people are ambitious and self reliant, that’s true, but its often like the question of the chicken and the egg, which came first, the reliance on others or the help? I think a lot of the time people lose ambition because they get help. The help is often the reason why ambition is lost. On a micro and macro scale.
None of this is to say that help isn’t always needed, but help has to be smart. trillions of dollars of aid to Africa have NOT been smart, not in the amount, and not in the way the aid was given. The IMF imposes stringent conditions on countries it helps. Those conditions get to the heart of the matter, they apply a proven formula for creating economic growth and implementing necessary structural reforms. People like Bono don’t grasp the fact that the very structure of the country has to be overhauled if the money is to work. Otherwise, nothing will change. if Africa right now is unable and unwilling to shake its own foundations, then we shouldn’t give them money after money. Its a waste and its debilitating.
Imants, yes, but those changes must be created, they wont be realized on their own, especially if we are drowning them in free money. Change has to come from the top. Any aid to any African nation must come with a strict set of very very precisely worded conditions, conditions that must be implemented otherwise the money should be withdrawn. This may seem callous but its the ONLY way to help. There isn’t much leeway in what a successful or functional system looks like. There are clear rules, principles, etc that work, and they are very narrow. If not followed, things go to hell, fast. These are not things refugees will ever come to realize, it must be done at the government level.
Hell ain’t such a bad place we have resided there many a time and manage to climb into another place.
“Any aid to any African nation must come with a strict set of very very precisely worded conditions, conditions that must be implemented otherwise the money should be withdrawn.”……… wow that sure is a I am in charge and do as I say mentality……..how many people find that acceptable I doubt if you would as a person. If you do well you may as well be someone’s puppet
I wouldn’t say I’m a Republican. I hate the Republican religious views, I find them as dangerous to liberty as communism. Its a backward, closed and hateful philosophy that governs much of the right. Listening to right-wing radio, scares me. I am simply a believer in the free market, personal liberties and common sense. When I say stop in-discriminant aid to Africa it is because I see that aid doesn’t work. Never has, and it will not in the future. Short term aid is needed. When disasters strike, like in Haiti or Indonesia, help is needed. But in the long term it doesn’t help.
Imants,
nobody is forced to accept aid. Your view is rather blind. Aid is taken voluntarily. However if you are to take aid then the aid donor has the right to impose condition on his HIS money is to be used. But on a more fundamental level, yeah it is a “do as I say mentality.” And rightfully so. Because doing as WE say works. Doing as THEY are doing isn’t, hasn’t and will never work. When Africa can come up with a way to organize it self in a way that works better than our system, then they can do as they want. But to be sure, what works is not a mystery. What should be plain as day is that Africa is a disaster that requires major surgery, not band-aid. And 50+ years after independence, it is mostly the fault of Africans that Africa has not worked. That may not be PC but it is the reality. Africa is run by corrupt and inept government trying to do things “their way” and their way has proven to be a failure. Aid from the West should come in the form of stringent requirements and major overhaul of each country that accepts aid. Otherwise, whats the point? They will be just as poor, or poorer in 200 years.
It has nothing to do with being a puppet. It has everything to do with following basic economic formulas. People in Korea bitched about the IMF’s requirements in 1997, but guess what, they have worked in making Korea a far more transparent, solid country than before 1997.
nobody is forced to accept aid. …….if you have nothing you accept anything.
Because doing as WE say works.
But seeing you would only accept being a puppet master prolonging this banter just isn’t worth it……feel free to set up your own “Because doing as WE say works” regime in your head.
catcha later
Jim
I read your your earlier post and, like DAH, found it incredibly sad. You must have had great passion as a Pj in the beginning and you seem to suffer greatly for the loss…not the loss of photojournalism per se but the loss of the ideals and the passion that drove you against all odds to overcome your background and achieve your goals as a photojournalist. I hope you don´t think i am being too psychoanalytical. I have no credentials to help me understand what happened to you. But i have to try. To understand. Because it seems that as great as your original illusions were your disillusionment was greater. Is greater. And i am not sure that you even understand why that is.
Many of us burn out in careers that we worked hard to achieve with the best intentions. I burned out early in mine, right there in Beaumont, and the burn-out was horrible, painful. I would get into the company car, sit there in the blazing sun with the windows up and just scream out my frustration at the dashboard. It took me many years before i could even think the word ¨art¨ again much less attempt to do any. However, through our flame-out we make room for newcomers who hopefully have a fresh viewpoint and an enduring strength that enable them to go farther than we did. Hopefully we don´t blame them, criticize them, snipe at them, belittle their efforts, shatter their dreams, trash them with cryptic one-liners or cut them down at the knees with dismissive judgements.
There are buttholes in every profession. There are lawyers who are ambulance chasers and there are lawyers working for pennies to help the downtrodden. There are doctors charging astronomical fees for every nano-second of their precious time and there are Doctors Without Borders. There are builders defrauding homeowners and there are builders with Habitats for Humanity. There are corrupt cops and there are cops pursuing cold cases with a zeal that goes far beyond their job description. There are photojournalists who are so devoid of ethics we would all have been better off if they´d never picked up a camera and there are photojournalists changing minds, changing the course of events and changing the course of history with their work.
But you know all this. And i know you know all this. I just wanted to say that i am sorry for you that you lost your ideals and your passion through scenes so violent and tragic that the loss you experienced was equally as violent and perhaps akin to the amputation of a real and vital part of you. As the body mourns the loss of a limb, you seem to mourn a more existential loss; your very closely guarded and privately nurtured ideals (aka dreams).
But i ask you please to remember what it was like for you in the beginning and to put yourself in the shoes of another young ¨Jim Powers¨ and find it within yourself to nurture his or her dreams and ideals, no matter that you think they are a waste of time, will accomplish nothing in the end and absolutely, definitely should not be shot in grainy black and white.
And please understand i am not criticizing, nor am i smug or even confident of my observations. I could be a total idiot. But i mean, i just wanted to tell you i am trying to understand and trying to find out if there´s a way to get past the huge walls of your photojournalistic despair on behalf of those who come here aspiring to the same great heights you once aspired to. So that you could possibly see their efforts in a more positive light, in a more hopeful framework. You could do so much for the emerging photographer. You have the intelligence, the sensitivity and, deep down, the compassion and the empathy. Or not..whatever, just thought i´d say this and now i´m going to walk the dogs and maybe do some photo editing of my own, late as it is for me, in more ways than one.
Have a very lovely southeast Texas night, Jim.
Best
Kathleen
KATHLEEN,
WOW! What a beautiful letter to Jim :-)
JIM,
C’mon! Let’s celebrate life! Share your perspective with us… Of all things that sustain us as humans – hope and the promise of a brighter day may be more important than food or water.
Yea Rafal, Imants is right. You’re coming off as a bwana-wanna-be.
Regarding aid in Haiti, and elsewhere, the difference between good aid and bad aid is who benefits — the donor or the recipient? If money goes to hire Haitians to rebuild homes, buildings and infrastructure with all the local resources possible, then it can be beneficial. If it goes to bring in foreigners to rebuild and all the materials are imported from donor nations, and all the middlemen get their cut, then it will be par for the course. I recall reading an article in Harper’s back when we were giving so much “aid” to Russia after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Turned out a large chunk of it, literally billions, was spent flying over think tank types and paying them ridiculous sums to hold symposiums.
And since you took a swipe at Bono, and by association Geldof, their organization has done, and continues to do a lot of good, building infrastructure and employing locals rather than just shipping food and handing it out as the U.S. does. Note that shipping “free” food is pretty much an agricultural subsidy that harms the local production and sets the stage for the next famine.
Not that I’m an expert or anything, but I’ve seen enough to know that right wing ideological cant is just that. The left, if it’s fair to call it that, appears to be learning from its mistakes. Seems like what the right refers to as the left these days, including organizations like Band Aid, Oxfam, et. al. are better described as the “reality based” community.
Kathleen, I’m a pretty easy going, reasonably well adjusted guy, despite what David thinks of my accent :)
You are over analyzing my post. Many rational people who deliberately put themselves in a position to witness unrelenting pain, suffering and loss, eventually decide they don’t want to do that anymore. You can only stick your hand in a fire so many times before you decide it would be less painful to just not do that anymore. Doctors give up medicine to make furniture, etc. I have a whole file in my head of tragedy I’ve photographed, stored in grainy, B&W snapshots surrounded by the sounds and the smells. Thousands of them. Ten years ago I decided I didn’t want to keep putting my hand in that flame.
Nothing existential, no loss of ideals, a single, conscious decision to change what I photograph. I’m very direct in my admonition to young photographers because I’ve been down that road and I know what is at the end of it. And the pain, if you have real compassion for those you photograph, exceeds the gain for those you’ve exploited in all that “excitement.” I’m as passionate about photography as I was as a 10 year old with my first “real” camera. I just don’t want to exploit other’s misery anymore to feed my passion.
Michael,
I don’t know what a bwanna-wanna-be is, please write English. As I said, I am all for short term emergency aid to Haiti, I think it is needed, and yes it should go to help the locals as much as possible. But people talk about rebuilding Haiti, and I ask “rebuild what?” The roads and buildings? Fine, but Haiti was a disaster before the earthquake and it will be so even if all the roads and buildings are rebuilt. What Haiti needs is to be transformed and so do those donor recipients that don’t have the conditions for creating a successful state, economy. All the aid in the world will never help Africa unless Africa is transformed fundamentally. And I think Bono/Geldoff are absolute douches doing far more bad than good.
Jim
s’cool..i getcha, it’s just that post really touched me..made me think there was more to your…your…your, well, i’ll just say your perspective than met the eye. Still, i gotta say that way back when you thought you could change the world. And then you changed your mind about how you’d do that. But life isn’t just the last page of Life Magazine. And you that. So, as others have said, it’s about balance. And also as Mr. Vink said, you can pretend the garbage isn’t out there but it’s piling up behind your front door just the same. So, what, we should all ignore it just because you do?
Jim, everybody has their own pain threshold and everybody has to find things out for themselves. There’s a lot of careers that bring more pain than gain. Teaching, for example. Social Services. Peace Keeping. Public Defender. But geez, where the hell would we be if the old-timers in these careers shoo’d the newcomers out the door before they got hurt or discouraged or cynical or corrupt?
I dunno..guess i learned a lot as a mother. Sometimes being a good parent means not preventing the crash but being there afterward to help pick up the pieces. I say let the new photographers try to change the world with their cameras! Encourage them in their efforts, mentor them, give the benefit of your knowledge if that’s appropriate, and some empathy if that’s what’s needed. Never, ever, ever say “I told you so”. You can change the world now, Jim. Here, at Burn. With these newbies. shhhh…no more shooo. No more diss’ing. Even Atlas shrugged. You can too. Let it go. Like Justin said above, have some fun, celebrate the passion these new Pj’s have..don’t rain on their parade. Enjoy their ride. These are baby Harvey’s and Natchway’s Encourage them!!! They will listen!
best, really :)
Kathie
“And you know that”
KAT
your words again…..
go
kathleen
go….
:)
xox
***
wendy-kins
this is for you
KAT
how did you know that I always travel with my red glitter slippers?
:)
Anna B
go
go
go!!!!
:)
***
Wendy
i am
i am
i am!!!!
:)
Wendy
heh, you think i just met you yesterday? *wink* i know you what you’re up to. And i know what you keep in your bag of tricks. A little stardust, maybe a magic wand, a homing pigeon, a book of e.e. cummings, a good omen or two and hey, why not? a genie in a bottle. Just in case.
kiss
k/
All,
regarding aid to other countries. I doubt it was only the aid, which causes trouble to those countries.
I think, that started much earlier: When the so-called developed countries came to Africa and other continents/countries and forced them into their cultures and ignored the local culture. That causes a lot of destruction, corruption. As long as aid is used as a tool for hidden imperialism, it must be avoided.
In February 2009, I was in Skopje. My first impression was: “Wow, the war has destroyed many things”. I then was educated, that there was no war. They had an earthquake in 1963. They got aid by Russia, Japan and many other countries. The rebuilt parts of the city – in the respective style of the donating country, but the aid was not enough. The country is poor with low structure. This ist visible after 47 years still.
Regarding Haiti it makes me think they need aid. First – short term, food, medical care. Lots of money flows at the moment as long the memory is fresh. But then, once the topic “Haiti” is off the news, more aid is necessary. Aid to get the Haitians back on their own feet. I fear, this will either not happen – or again by the conditions of the big donators, with a lot of corruption, causing more harm than good. But what to do? Not to help is not an option.
And I think, that is where photo-/journalism has to jump in. Follow up the aftermath and show the world how it is then. After the big news. Support the aid goes the right project and uncover the wrong ones.
I hope the magazines and sponsors will support that, too.
ideologically,
i believe in strict egalitarianism (forcibly redistributing the wealth of a nation)
realistically,
the only working political models i can agree with are the kibbutzim in israel
interesting discussion…. i wish i had more time to join in…
rafal: question because i really don’t know: can you tell me what Bono’s aid program actually does? i’d like to know before i “classify” him
interesting discussion… remember sometimes there is a time for “a greater good”… something that i believe asia understands much better than the rest of the world (of course they make their mistakes too…), but… that is why they were/are able to rise economically as a nation in a way that the western world can’t anymore because we are so hell bent on our individuality as if it were the greatest good on earth.
it’s a fine line
.. don’t bring them fish, teach them how to fish… but with THEIR resources, not ours..
kathleen, there is no chance any young photographer will listen to anything I have to say. Nobody learns from the mistakes or warning of others. There is no way to understand it other than in retrospect.
That doesn’t absolve me from the responsibility of saying it, though.
Jim
Your comment above it is all YOU!!! ha ha ha
Rafal,
“Saying people should help others is dangerous because should is an imperative”
I think you did not read my first comment about. I am not good with political discussions and I didn’t try talk about politic but about philosophy.
I am not too good with describing what I think so I will repeat.
In my hear I feel that everyone should care about others, rich should take care about poor it is obvious for me. But this is what I feel only.
But what I THINK there is NO other fair system than what we call “capitalism”. There is no option in my opinion.
Capitalism have a many faces but in a few words we can describe it “do everything what you want what is not against the law” simply as we human kind are. It’s mean that if someone what to buy a new next porsche and not support red cross this is his choice.
If someone what to buy M9 for 10000$ and not send this money for Haiti this is his choice.
If someone have any idea for a new fair ideological system which will be not against imperfect human nature, let speak right now.
There is no time. World are waiting.
:)
Jim
You are so wrong. They will listen! They might pretend they don’t listen. They might argue. They might disagree. But they will listen. Because you are bright and articulate. And you are really convincing. But when you toss off disparaging one-liners on the essays under the guise of fearless honesty, when you’re negative and cynical that nothing changes, nothing helps, we’re all going to hell in a hand basket (where did that expression come from anyway???) well then, yer right. Nobody listens. They just get mad and rant.
DAH talked about his mentors, how much they meant to him. He listened to them when he was young. It paid off handsomely. Maybe that’s why he’s such a great mentor now. Don’t underestimate the power of your words to hurt, help, inspire, provoke, stimulate, Jim! You have an incredible amount of power here. Crap. You don’t have to coddle people. Heaven knows the word coddle isn’t in your dictionary. But for heaven’s sakes, please know that with five words you have the power to break a man’s heart. Or a woman’s. Have a little bit of faith, have some fun, shrug off that terrible mantle of responsibility you have and share your stories, what you’ve been through, all that you know. C’mon, stop keeping it all a secret. When you wrote about that poor soul being pushed through 4 inches of steel, i have to tell you, my blood ran cold. And it made me feel so, well, this is really silly, but close to you somehow. Like i really felt what you felt at that moment, what it was like to be Jim Powers, the photojournalist, right there, at that moment. But don’t let me tell you..hell, you won’t listen to me anyway, but that doesn’t absolve me from the responsibility of saying it though :))))
I need some sleep and unless you’re just getting up, so do you..
goodnight, Jim-bob..
k/
Anton
:the only working political models i can agree with are the kibbutzim in israel”
I know what you mean and understand it, but kibbutzim is against of nature a half or more part of people. and what you do with this part? Force them to be a part of kibbutz?
That’s how works communism.
it may all boil down to one thing: CHOICE.
you can choose to be the dying, live with the dying or die living what you were born to do. no one can take full responsibility in another’s ultimate decision. only that one person makes the choice. one can exploit, help, or do nothing.
MDR, XDR is old news. i know that every pill in the western world supports the cost of maybe a dozen of the same pill in the third world and some research. medicines for ‘regular’ TB is available free at the health center… small dots along miles and miles of unnavigable mountains. access is not there. money is not there for people to get to the meds. ignorance of disease is rampant. herbs and the local liniment may be thought of to work better.
nachtwey’s essay may have achieved more funding to old news. more funding to administrative work to provide access to meds. it achieved one thing for me. refreshed my mind to how it was. sometimes we are bound to forget the nasty, bound to get used to the smell of death. sometimes a conscious choice.
rampant. so rampant.
JIM,
I have to second Kathleen’s words. Whatever you say here, it creates reactions from others. What more evidence for “they are listening” do you need?
Keep it up!
hey marcin…
no don’t worry, i just said “i agree with”… i have no idea how to implement, or even IF it should be implemented. Just than when i see it working, then i agree with it. in reality, I don’t think it would work on a global scale.
I think the hardest part of any (political) ideology is factoring in the dissidence: how will it work if people don’t agree but are still part of the system/nation? i.e. people who reap the benefits but don’t pay the dues? I think that that is the reason why capitalism is still alive, being that it can seemingly put up with a relatively high number of these “reapers” without falling apart (mostprobably because it needs the partly greedy nature of man to exist), while communism is much more susceptible to this and tried to solve this by force (and therefore it can be argued that capitalism is much more in touch with nature of man than communism)
but… is “being in touch with human nature”, an argument for the validity of an ideology?
I guess, as always, the practical truth lies somewhere in between.
That’s why i live in Belgium… a good “balance” of ideologies here :-)
a bit individualism is good. a bit of collectivism is good. it’s the misplaced individualism or collectivism that is counterproductive…
imagine what a nation could achieve if they were able to self-impose with good balance of ideologies… not too “individual/free”, not too “state/controlled… but too a certain extent, BOTH are necessary.
ideally speaking, being part of an ideology/nation… should be voluntary (unfortunately it is not often the case, because you cannot choose where you are born), but i also see and believe that 99% of the people cannot or will not see further than their own back yard. THAT is the real problem that any nation or ideology faces… narrow-mindedness.
as far as i can tell, the kibbutz only works for a relatively small number of people at a time, more like city-nations (if that is the correct term), and it is generally agreed upon that it would fall apart if implemented on a larger scale.
Kathleen,
good words!!!
:-)
Jim…
Your last post shows you to be a wise man… (I know this might not carry much weight for you, coming from a guy half your age, but it’s never the less true…)
And the one before achieves to communicate (for me) your points about how hopeless and pointless is in the end—both for the photographer and his subjects—to photograph misery and pain better, than any argument you have/can make about the intentions and integrity of other photographers.
“.. don’t bring them fish, teach them how to fish…” ……….no can do we already ate their fish
“a trout!’ said the gecko
is what we need
salt and lemon
now if you are ready dear trout
we can begin to consume
If you take the word photo out of photojournalist, does this make any difference to the arguments above?
Does it make a difference to the discussion? Is it somehow acceptable for Journalists to write about these things and bring them to world attention, or do we still have the same arguments?
If we all stop trying to be high minded about photography and how ethical we would like to believe photographers are. There are as many types of photographers out there as are types of people, not all of them are morally driven.
I applaud Jim’s honesty in his recollections of his work as a local news photographer and it certainly is an insight and warning for the young photographers out there as to the different paths you can take in photography. I guess Jim that the reason for photographing these horrific scenes was due to editorial directives and not out of choice. I can understand why a career, you embarked upon out of passion for the craft, turning sour having to constantly use your skills to document scenes you didn’t want to document. I too agree with your feeling that sensationalist photography of these horrific scenes will achieve very little (shock and awe factor) it might have a short term effect but nothing lasting. But there is room for sensitive informed reporting (both in writing and photographically) of human/natural disasters. You have had more than your fair share of disaster reporting thrust upon you and as you say you just want to see happiness, fair enough. But the truth is bad things happen and surely it is a moral duty to inform others of these bad things. As Kathleene said it is like being a Mother/parent, if you never told your kids that they could be hit by a car and squashed, they would never be aware of the danger, it becomes your duty to tell them of these issues. As they say “information is king” if you know what is going on you can do something about it.
The younger generation does listen if spoken to with respect, I work with a few students and have learnt by my mistakes.
Each and everyone of us chooses the path/type of photography we want to undertake, if you find out you have taken the wrong path you have the ability to change it.
The general orientation of Burn seems to be towards editorial/documentary/journalist photography, but there are many options to photographers. Some photography is more business than photography, with very little art/creativity/morality involved.
Just my 2p worth.
Happy debating one and all.
Ian
Thodoris, the only “wisdom” I have gained has been from spending almost 60 years making the same mistakes as those who came before me. :)
The reality is that there are very few 60 year old working PJ’s. Long before that they burn out and move on to doing something where they can actually make a living. I love photography and newspapers too much to move on, so when I faced that crossroads, sick of the pain and misery circuit, I chose to shoot positive stuff.
That’s really not a choice a young PJ has open to him. He has to shoot what he has to shoot. But I’ve been doing this so long, and along the way picked up editing, layout and writing skills, along with web design and programming skills, that I have value to newspapers beyond snapping photos. So I’m in the rare position in the news photographer game where I can decide what I want to shoot. If we live long enough, we sometimes become useful. :)
Photography will never change the world, but that’s not something you can explain to a young photographer. Won’t stop me from trying, though.
Rafal, bwana is originally a Swahili word that has found its way into common English usage. You could easily look it up in the dictionary, or type it in Google for that matter. It means “master” or “boss.” So bwana-wanna-be means someone who wants to be a master or boss. Used in the context of Africa, it has the added connotation of “white dude who’s taken a poli-sci class and parachutes in telling the ignorant locals what they ‘must’ or ‘must not’ do”. If you want to avoid appearing as such, you might consider learning to phrase your thoughts differently.
If these problems and their solutions were really so obvious and simple that some stale dogma could solve them toute de suite, they would have been solved long ago.
And it’s kind of ugly, as well, to casually dismiss someone like Geldof who has made such a colossal effort to help people in need and had many undeniable successes. What have you done? Read a book? Taken a class?
Jambo Michael…
obviously the way for a country to get ahead in the world is to use the China model…have all the people thinking they are Communists and have the folks in charge thinking Capitalism…works…smiling….
none of us can control much…all you can really do is create the “ideal” environment within about 15 or 20 feet of the space around you at any given moment:…listen…make somebody laugh…suggest a positive course..listen some more…put on the right music…bring out a good book…lift someone out of the rubble…put a hand on the shoulder at just the right time…imo if everyone worked that 15 feet to the max, then man might achieve at least a modicum of the ideals most seek…of course i know the realities…i am simply talking about what any of us can actually DO at any given point of time…
all of us here have one thing in common…our work….even if a photograph enlightens or educates or stimulates in some way for just a few seconds, then it has done enough….if nothing else it aids, along with many other stimuli, in the passing of either knowledge or inspiration and man moves forward with his/her milliseconds of time on the planet a bit richer than before…isn’t that enough “net worth”??
ANNA B…
where oh where have you been?? new work to show?? nice to hear from you….
IAN AITKEN…
i would not say the overall orientation of Burn is towards documentary..right this minute it is, but if you go back through the archives, i would say a solid 40-50% leans towards personal expression or interpretation or art…where Burn does not go is into purely commercial photography , although we do discuss the “business” and some commercial practice quite a bit…i am not opposed to publishing commercial photography…it is simply unlikely to be submitted…
JIM..
i hope that whenever i spoke of your Texas accent it was fondly…that was my intent in any case…and , yes, you are a well adjusted easy going guy…this of course does not keep you from stirring the pot and adding some spice…please pass the hot sauce…
As for bringing out a good book…
Not sure how I found out about this one (could have been through someone’s recommendation in here) but it is an amazing book:
http://www.amazon.com/Witness-Our-Time-Documentary-Photographers/dp/1560989483
And it’s kind of on the topic of our discussion too…
no time to write….i do WANT to say so much…about Korea vs. Africa (no no comparison at all, and i’m surprised Rafal you’d make that analogy) or the mistakes we learn (jim is right, photography does not change anything, but it can bring awareness to some who then can change) and lots more to say, but simply this: i think david’s has it right: it is within the stretch of our arms that we can hope to be good and that we should above all be centered on, but that wing-span (15ft) may be different for others….as i said long ago, tolstoy got it right, that we must first work on ourselves first, and i have much much to better myself, always trying to be more aware and less blind and less full-of-shit than i was the day before and that the infinite (large ideas/intellectualized) often blinds us…i know that first hand…
but i want to draw a simpler example of how most of us draw and quarter ourselves over empty shit (words) when live continues…and often saddens….
i think there are many many lessons to be learned by haiti…some great, some horribly sad….
i think, while cruesome, it is important to reflect upon this…
from haiti, the 15 year old girl who was shot by police for stealing mirrors….it says nothing about haiti per se but it does teach us how much more we must do as a species to get things right…and all the money in the world (and i’ve donated as much as i can in the last 7 days) cannot eradicate something else that lay at the heart of our lives….our blindness and our baseness often…
we must be awake to both despair and to joy…without the other, we are indeed lost…
15 year old Fabienne Geisma
http://archive.noorimages.com/webgate/preview.php?UURL=ec4f701951d7a1705c3429027dffbb6f&SECTION=SERIESRESULT&IMGID=00021041
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1244660/Haiti-earthquake-Schoolgirl-looter-Fabienne-Geismar-killed-bullet-head.html
The bar has been raised…I can’t even reach my ouzo…
GLORY DAYS are here to stay…
I believe in …ALL of you…!!!
P.S KATIE …I am waiting for the book…
and yes JIM… the key is ready …
you know me …I can wait…:)))
ohhh…did I say Hello ANTONNNNNNNN !!!
and yes BURNIANS…what the heck …I am gonna say it…
I LOVE YOU ALL
Contrary to what I wrote the other day, fund-raising for Haiti by selling prints seems to be working:
http://haitiprintsale.bigcartel.com
They seem to have raise well over $5000…
Contrary to what I wrote the other day, fundraising for Haiti by selling prints seems to be working:
http://haitiprintsale.bigcartel.com
They seem to have raise well over $5000…
Just out of curiosity, are you guys done bashing Republicans or should I wait in the hall for a little bit longer? ;-)
HERVE….:)
If u reading this..plz check your mail…
its regarding Thailand…
i think im “ready”..
:)
biggest hug
Jim Powers wrote,
“Photography will never change the world, but that’s not something you can explain to a young photographer. Won’t stop me from trying, though.”
Finally a useable quote for your headstone
Greetings from India where it’s just after midnight. I’ve been traveling by car all day. Thank goodness the travel day was today, not the rest of the week when I was suffering with chills/fever/sore throat!
I’ve been wondering if I had H1N1 and then this morning I see a newspaper headline “Facial palsy targets fever hit.”
That got my attention! “Mysterious viral fever victims are being struck by paralysis of the face about two weeks after the fever.” Well now I’m HOPING what I had was H1N1!!! I guess it’s too late to worry about it. Time will tell. In the meantime the fact that I survived 7 hours of being in the back of an Ambassador in India is a huge accomplishment! One day at a time :))
I will catch up a bit more tomorrow. The headlines here on burn don’t look at all scary. Take care all.
““.. don’t bring them fish, teach them how to fish…” ……….no can do we already ate their fish”
err.. you might have a point there, Imants.. chicken all gone too?
if you really think of it humankind is kinda depressing :(
The chicken’s will never go away after all they are Republicans
“Finally a useable quote for your headstone”
No headstone for me. But, that wouldn’t be bad for a headstone. :)
Have been checking in occasionally and reading some of the back-and-forth between Jim and others. I have only one thing to say: Jim Powers may be opinionated and maybe even dismissive of others’ opinions but the man is never mean-spirited or cruel. Never. His opinions do not attack anyone personally; they are simply presented in a forceful, non-ambiguous way. And Jim is always consistent. Anyone who has read the comments on Burn should not be surprised by anything he says. So why do a few others continue to attack him as if he were the devil incarnate? I don’t get it.
Patricia
I get it Patricia,
They are unable to contribute a credible alternative point of view without being offensive and it shows a lack of literary skills on their part. I frequently don’t agree with Jim either but he is always consistent, straight to the point without any unnecessary flowery language.
He is often right even if I don’t agree with him.
This post refers to some of the recent comments and what I have been contemplating about in the past days.
As always I find this discussion very interesting – it makes me think. Here are some of my thoughts…
What I have noticed in the last few month is that the tension among people is rising. The number of people who are not satisfied with their work, with their lifes, is growing. Mostly it is because the workload is simply too much. To me it seems that this stress level creates a very bad mood. And in a hirachy the demand and the pressure is moved always a step lower. And yes, I stand somewhere in between this hirachy as well and get orders and give orders… Everything seems to be all about efficiency, about money, about making more money. More getting than giving. Perhaps the nature of survival, but I feel this is not very healthy. The word “burn out” becomes more and more common. In short I guess we make each others life hell. Why? At the same time we have the possibility to make it heaven as well. It is our choice. As David said, at least within everyones close surrounding we can try to have a positive influence. David, thank you for this wonderful encouraging post! I can only hope more and more people will get this message and start to work for the good. I know I take on this efficiency thinking as well sometimes. Not good… need to rethink myself… please keep reminding me!
The story of this 15 year old girl shot because of looting really makes me sad. I see the dilemma the police is facing in Haiti. But still… So sad. Thank you Bob and thank you for your words!
Now to something else. I don’t understand why people are afraid of a health reform in America? Isn’t it a good idea to have a health insurance for everyone? As far as I know it is almost compulsory here in Germany. In any case I feel this is something very good and helpful. Much more important than a stealth bomber and all that crap! Why are people against a health reform? What are their arguments? Honestly, this is a bit difficult for me to understand.
Okay, it is getting late here.
Good night!
Reimar
Yay!! group hug for Jim from the nice and sensitive people around here…
So, let me get this straight Patricia… It doesn’t matter if his arguments have logical consistency in the long run, as long as they subscribe to what you’d expect him to say?
I do value most of what he says but since he is one of the most prominent voices in here I do think his views should be challenged, especially those which are a bit over the top dogmatic—like no one should photograph misery, or photography can bring no change whatsoever… period…
And again, when someone is preaching ethics (and it’s not the first time he has done this, remember John’s last single) I don’t see how can it be considered offensive bringing his own ethics into the argument.
Could I have been more diplomatic? I suppose… but like Jim would say, I called it like I saw it.
Goodnight.
Thodoris, I expect as good as I give. Absolutely challenge what I say. Especially my ethics. Who has time for diplomacy? You cannot anger or offend me. It’s only rock and roll.
Patricia
Yeah, i´m with Jim..He receives as good as he gives and i don´t think anyone is attacking his person, his integrity or his work, much less implying that he´s the ¨devil incarnate¨. And i don´t think his feelings have been hurt during this discussion..Or, have they Jim? Nah, didn´t think so :)
I think we all respect Jim a LOT. I know i do. His heartfelt post about the car accident and his reasons for making the choces he did moved me so much, provoked me to write back from an equally heartfelt place. My respect for him, for the quality of his thought processes, his ability to articulate his arguments are the reasons i am asking for him to be even more around here. What i do have a serious issue with his belief that photojournalism cannot possibly change the world and his conviction that he has to warn/prepare/convince/chase off young newcomers to this career lest they find out too late that the world sucks the big one, after all. But i am not going into that here. He knows very well what i think on this subject.
So, if you´d like to leave off the third person stuff and speak directly to those you feel are denigrating him then perhaps they can respond adequately to your post.
Best
kathleen
AKAKY…
stand out in the hall just a wee bit longer please…oh c’mon, i actually have Republican friends…one whole wing of my family is Republican, but nice folks anyway….no bashing intended…just a different view of how to solve the problems we all agree are problems…and one can never ascribe or generalize qualities that are often used as tags for one party/philosophy over another…for example, i was always under the impression that Republicans were relatively humorless….but, you have proven me wrong on that one…and things have gotten so surreal anyway…Sarah on Fox just about takes the cake..brilliant, truly brilliant move on her part….most candidates have to raise lots of money to run or lose their fortunes to run, but Sarah will get paid to campaign….now Akaky, we will let you come in out of the hall if you will please please just tell us you do not endorse Sarah..you seem way way too smart for that….
Catching up on all the comments. I have been looking for good people to have really interesting meaningful discussions and debates with. Those that see the world just a little bit differently than those that I have the tendancy to meet. I have found these good people here on Burn. Photography brings us together and ideas, opinions and commentary are what keep me coming back. Thanks to all of you. Thanks also to David for reminding me about our real sphere of influence, our own 15 feet. Having said that I still value the ideaological/politcal and moral debate here.
I have come to photography looking for a way out or in depending on your perspective. Burnt out and cynical about what I have seen working for a number of large corporations, seeing first hand the collusion, corruption, and greed that seems to be business as usual. Maybe I was just naive or simple minded but the more I learned the worse it got. Maybe that is just how the world works. No system or ideology can free us from our base nature. I have personally struggled with this. From what I have experienced and learned Capitalism as it exists is a failed and flawed experiment leaving many behind, Communism just sucks all around. So what are we left with? Something in the middle I suppose, the middle path. I guess I have come to photography to try to change the world, as crazy as that sounds and however misguided that may be. Having two kids has made me feel more responsilble for the world they will inherit.
ANTON
Belgium sounds like a good bet and you have amazing BEvERages. Belgium is also the intenational home of Sociocracy, a novel approach to governing that is not majority rules, but based on commonality and consensus. Maybe we have a lot to learn from Belgium not withstanding how to drink beer out of a glass boot. What is the most botles of Duvel anyone has been able to drink again?
Wtih regard to the debate about healthcare the problem lies in the fact that often there is not much focus on health (more focus on sickness) and not a lot of care (care more about making money than caring about people). In the latest issue of Natinal Geographic there is a table which shows dollars of healthcare spending per capita vs life expectancy. The US has by far the most costly system and lower than average life expectancy vs the developed world. The reason being that healtcare in the US has been turned over to the free market. The market does not always know best, but those that know the market the best make a lot of money.
Cheers
CONGRATULATIONS MATTHEW MC DERMOTT!!
for getting THIS shot!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6997676.ece
I don´t know who you are, but, damn, you did it! i FEEL this moment and i´m lovin´it! Thanks for bringing this to tghe rest of us. Thanks for not giving up after having to cover 9/11 and who knows how many other depressing moments in this heartless struggle for survival on planet earth. Thank you, thank you for bringing us this child´s spirit..man, this made my entire month!
Best
Kathleen
Kathleen, it’s getting a little deep in here and my hip boots have sprung a leak.
We had a bank robbery in the county last week, believe it or not. Guy used a replica handgun and made off, on foot, with $7,050. The pack dogs from the prison caught up with him, after a several mile run through the woods. He was wearing by that time only his white long underwear, hiding under a big stump and covered with leaves. Sheriff said the perp told him one of the dogs walked right up and kissed him! It was pretty cold that day, too. Pretty soon criminals here are gonna start wearing shoes and them dogs ain’t never gonna catch ’em!
Put it right on the front page of the newspaper, I did.
True story. You just can’t make this stuff up.
hahahaha..Jim, that´s great! i love it..the dog kissed him..hahah..i´m sitting here cracking up, can just picture it! A few years ago, down on the border between Panama and Costa Rica, police were escorting a Costa Rican prisoner back into the country after picking him up in Panama. Well, at one point the prisoner bolted, making a mad dash for a nearby river, whereupon he jumped in. Witnesses were puzzled why the cops didn´t chase him. They knew what he didn´t. The river was full of crocodiles (or aligators, forget which) that made fast work of the prisioner. Not saying i don´t feel sorry for the guy but really..like you said, you can´t make this stuff up.
Must have been a great front page, Jim!
Jim; especially for you :-)
Speaking of rock ‘n roll. Been shooting the local School of Rock n Roll. A bunch of 10-17 year olds playing Gibson LP’s, SG’s etc. At that age I would’ve given up a kidney to even touch a Telecaster (my favourite). Even more scary is how bloody good those kids are at playing!
Today they took turns (3 at a time) busking with acoustic guitars and drums for dollars in the city’s main street, tonight a big gig for them. They’ve all been down to the used clothe place to see what outfits they can buy for $5! Shoud be fun….
Cheers
DAH,
i’ve been here all along. :)
yes, i’ll have new work to share with you very soon.
also, i finally got access to the story i originally wanted to do in NY. would like to secure reservations for the burn hotel for the spring. :)
lots of love,
anna b.
Kathleen, I’m not fond of pointing fingers at people by name, especially online. Things can come back to haunt you as the internet never forgets. When I spoke of hearing a few folks making personal attacks on Jim, my sense is that they will be able to figure out for themselves if that refers to them.
Thodoris, in no way shape or form am I saying don’t challenge Jim or anyone else whose opinions you disagree with. That’s what discussion is all about.
Patricia
Ok now I am starting to get paranoid. Is big brother watching us? I thought Google is threatening to pull out of China if they do not allow free access to the internet and freedom of speech without fear of recrimination.
PATRICIA
If I am one of those you had in mind then I would like to make it clear I had no intention of making any personal attack on Jim even if my criticism of his perspective was harsh. I really value Jim’s input and perspective as I do yours even if I don’t agree with it all the time.
JIM POWERS
If you took any offense by anything I have said then please accept my apologies.
Well I did once write that Jim was being an ass%$#@ (please note, I did not say he was one) which I do regret. My apologies. Ass would have sufficed. IMO, of course. And by the way, isn’t that redundant? I mean, are people often posting another’s opinion?
ok, red wine …anyone???
I celebrate life today …As all very clearly said…many times…here and there…
if and when all the above writers …be in the same room …one day…we will hug each other
and we will ….have a BURNing Blast…( sponsors and mass audience included)!!!
Be you…respect…and VIVA !!!
Frank, I never take offense.
for those that havn´t seen – boy bickford has created a website for his book proposal of ¨after the storm¨…
very good.
http://www.after-the-storm.net/
I do…
hihihiiiiiiiiiiii
Thanks DAVIDB…cause after the storm …is how I feel today …
Oime…
Nice work with the site chris it looks fantastic.
john
Thanks for posting that DB.
Nice one Chris, really professional and organised easy for press,public and distributors to get a feel for the book.
I also noticed the pictures in the gallery look like they are prints just hung on the wall. This is one of my major bugbears with exhibitions, getting the prints mounted and framed is a colossal upfront expense. It would be interesting to hear other peoples solutions to this. I know about the magnetic paint.
For my most recent exhibition I had prints mounted to foamex, the trouble was the guys who did it run the print and foamex through rollers to stick them together, which can result in print damage if they are meticulously clean, it also leave the prints very vulnerable. Also I’m not sure if foamex is archival.
Cheers all
Ian
Very nice Chris…
There is some info missing though… what are the dimensions of the book? how many pages/how many photographs? is it duotone? Is it a blurb type of book?… those are secondary considerations—I will definitely get a copy at some point—but the info should be there nonetheless…
Also, to second Ian’s question… I too I’m looking for ways of displaying prints without framing them in the traditional way… if anyone has come up with a low cost—but elegant and safe for the prints—solution, please do share… cheers…
And Jim…
If I was wearing a hat, I would take it off to you… you’re a class act…
Thanks for the link, David, very cool, Chris!
Interesting take on the Haiti situation and PJs
http://kennethjarecke.typepad.com/
Ian
Thodoris,
a very cheap and lightweight way to display images is with a plate or boards that have some foam between them. They are made by a company here in Germany and the production line is called “Kapa”. Not sure if you can get them in Cypress? Maybe something similar exist?
The images will be glued with spray glue to these plates forever. Okay, that is the only disadvantage if you have precious prints. There is no way to get them off the plate. Not sure if I would do it with a precious baryth print… The Kapa plates have a neutral ph and so they will last and not harm the image. Usually you have no border (?) around the image. It is easy to put them on a wall. There are some very elegant and way more expesive solutions like that. You can put them on aluminum plates or behind plexi glas etc. The advantage with the cardboard and foam version you can do everything yourself.
Here is a link to the stuff I use: http://www.display.en.alcancomposites.com/alcan/acsites.nsf/pages_acde_en/index.htm!Open&p=products_kapa_line&m=3&type=.htm
For more detailed information drop me an email.
Best
Reimar
Thinking about Nachtwey’s essay, I’m wondering if it was his celebrity beyond his photos that actually got some funding for this cause? Being the “Greatest War Photographer In The World” with a documentary about yourself carries some cred beyond what your average working PJ can achieve. Would the US Congress or the TED award have noticed if the same work had been done by a less known photographer? Celebrity opens doors.
I’m not trying to take away from Nachtwey’s work here. He’s obviously a brilliant photographer who has given a lot for what he does. And in the end, who cares why they listened this time. Just seems like an interesting question, to me.
aitken, thanks for that link. This guy seems to have his feet on the ground, looking realistically at this thing we do. Bookmarked this one.
Thanks Reimar…
I downloaded their brochure…
Jim…
IMO, the answer is probably yes… this of course being one of the best uses one could put his celebrity status to…
By the way on the subject of data loss due to hard drive failure…
The main HD on my desktop crashed a few weeks ago. Thankfully I had all the important stuff in a backup drive, but under the instructions of a knowledgeable friend I booted my netbook with Linux and connected the HD externally as a usb device and what do you know?… Linux was able to read a HD which Windows deemed unreadable…
Anyway I thought I’d share this experience since I remember at least a couple mentions in here about data retrieval for big bucks…
“Thinking about Nachtwey’s essay, I’m wondering if it was his celebrity beyond his photos that actually got some funding for this cause? Being the “Greatest War Photographer In The World” with a documentary about yourself carries some cred beyond what your average working PJ can achieve. Would the US Congress or the TED award have noticed if the same work had been done by a less known photographer? Celebrity opens doors.”
———————————-
I think it’s a chicken and the egg situation with many successful PJ. They wouldn’t have gotten famous if they weren’t good.
Thodoris, thanks for sharing that information. I don’t use Linux as an operating system, but I have used the Knoppix bootable CD to recover information from crashed Windows computers ( http://www.knoppix.com/ ). This is a Linux OS that can boot directly from a CD, and loads in RAM. I’ve used to recover data and burn to a CD and also transfer through a Windows network. Plus, it’s free :-)
Justin…
The specific version of Linux I used is called Ubuntu and is also free to download. Also, my netbook doesn’t have a CD drive, so I used a usb memory stick to boot. I’m in no way an expert in all this… I was blindly following directions…
JIM…
yours is an interesting question….and we have discussed the “which comes first , the chicken or the egg” philosophy of iconic photographers in general…imo JN is a celebrity because he is such a fine photographer, rather than he gets jobs because he is a celebrity…a long time ago on Road Trips we had quite a discussion on the merits of “celebrity” in the first place…i think the so called “celebrity” factor should be avoided at all costs…an enemy of moving forward creatively..i.e. Salgado lost his edge the minute he became a household name…no less “famous”…more “famous”…but, from a peer standpoint was never able to move past being “Salgado”…no growth after fame…same as happens to movie stars and rock bands etc…..i hope this does not happen to JN….
BRIAN…
read your comment after i wrote to Jim above..funny, we used the same chicken and egg bit…anyway, we agree
IAN AITKEN…
i agree…the Ken Jarecke post is right on
DAVID,
You think There is a problem with Salgado and his fame? I am as far from the center of photography world as you are close but I Thought he is “just famous” photographer. I know you are firstly a photojournalist and for pj pictures are always before not behind you. I look at it as a painter and “artist” You do something what is timeless, you are on top and that’s all, you don’t have to prove to the end of your days that you are able to surprise and satisfy the world. I thought he “is” just great photographer not “was”.
Re: Salgado… I’m very curious as to what his Genesis project will look like…
BRAZIL
5 weeks~
photographs
and
vision….
living my dream….
lucky you…
:)
xox
marcin, I think the thing with Salgado (who has done some great work – I have his books) is whether his continuing work is judged good because of the quality of his photography, or because he is Salgado. Owning many of his books, my judgement is that the work is uneven over time. The photos I’ve seen from the Genesis project seem pretentious to me, certainly not as interesting as “Workers” or even “Africa.”
Jim
Mostly that how it works. I am sorry for comparison but did you see Webb’s last works? For me it change nothing.
I think it’s all about expectations.
http://www.masters-of-photography.com/S/salgado/salgado.html
http://photography-now.net/listings/index.php?option=com_alphacontent§ion=34&Itemid=293
look at the Salgado’s company. What to say more. It is done.
Came across Koudelka’s brand new http://www.thamesandhudson.com/9780500543870.html today in a Bucharest bookstore. Stellar design! It was a good day for me! I had a pastry in the morning, paid my internet bill and mobile phone bills, got passport photos taken since my passport has expired, got my hair cut and then tromped through snow Bucharest in great light shooting with my M8.2 before meeting Violeta, a young woman who has opened Bucharest’s first photography gallery. I signed with her and will hopefully be selling some prints. Now, it’s time for some great Romanian red wine. . . it’s Friday night! Much to do though over the weekend, new website, commercial portfolio, grant/award writing. . .
DAH:
It’s interesting then that Koudelka, despite his fame, has not lost his edge while Salgado you say has. . .
Do you think Eggleston has lost his edge?????
Tow words about cameras;
I always wondered why my 20 years old M6 looks so mint when I bought it and why is so used after only 3 years of normal working, and today I found the answer.
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/.a/6a00df351e888f88340115702929a5970b-popup
David, please take out your M9 from a glass cabinet and take some pictures we can see at last. ha ha :)
wish my equipment cabinet was that organized! :)
MARCIN…
well,this is a delicate issue…and sure Salgado will be an icon whether he ever “grows” or not…from a peer group standpoint , judged by his close colleagues, i think Sebastiao never changed or tried to move in another direction for the last 15-20 years or so once he became known for what he does…i do not mean that he should have done something radical or totally changed his style, but i think he could have taken some artistic risks…you are a painter, so i think you know what i mean…if too too successful, it is tempting not to experiment..because when you experiment , the chance of failure is high, and if you are up on a pedestal, then the desire to go out to the edge may be lessened….Koudelka , on the other hand, tries new things all the time…and maybe he even failed, but at least he did not keep doing what he did for Gypsies…..make any sense??
cheers, david
David yes of course, but Don’t you think it was a purpose of his work in Arctic zone? Maybe not the best one but anyway.
But also if you are an iconic artist you are always in fire anyway what you do.
And I always think as a painter but also as a photographer about one more thing, we spend a lot of time for our passion, we spend a lot of money, but what will happen with our work after we die? I know you are part of magnum and your archive is protected, but there is a crowd of a photographers who do work for today, maybe one or two photo will be a part of history if we will have a huge luck. Salgado’s works are part of history, it’s mean a part of continuity. The same James Nachtwey’s (I hope), not as Salgado but anyway. My works will settle in garbage, Salgado’s in art galleries or auction and people will fight for it.
I will I could disappointed as Salgado do.
MARCIN…
yes, of course i agree….that is why i said that whether or not he grows will not change his “place”..again, a very fine and delicate point indeed….what all of us want out of our work is different…some are going for the ultimate “place at the table” and others are simply trying to play out their more humble dreams…either is fine and it all depends on what you want and what you expect….and in how the world of photography accepts you…..
I wish I could disappointed as Salgado do. :)
My work is dust and dirt only.
MARCIN…
most true artists are extremely disappointed on some level….it is this “empty spot”, this void, they constantly try to fill…their public success does nothing to alleviate…
DAVIN…
i am neither judge nor jury for anyone…and who says how long an artist must produce…many very well known artists had short careers in terms of their very best work…HCB who was “famous” his whole life, really only had about 5 truly amazing years….Robert Frank the same…most of the work i see of Eggleston is at least 25 years old..but, perhaps i just do not know what he is doing now…again, for the sake of history, he does not need to do anything…few artists just cruise through life doing great work all the time…imo anybody who does great work all the time is not really doing “great work”…
I’ll be cruel but the way is always the same.
first artist want to start exist “in public”, be famous.
then most of them complain that “be famous” not give them what they want and block them.
Then they are out from public fame circle.
ane they wish have what they had.
I am educated on XIX century model, you work hard, have no money for food, you make a fire on your works in winter but if you will be a really good after your death you will not disappear, you will not die. Noe is 15 minutes model, and immortality is no so value as just money.
But I am post communism child. When I was a kid I couldn’t dream about money, nobody have it, only I could dream was just be famous as my predecessors… if I have a luck, if not just garbage.
You, Nachtwey, Salgado should be thankful.
Because only dirt and dust our work is.
MARCIN…
you are being too hard on yourself….first of all, forget “fame” because this is now a word synonymous with American Idol or something….just do good….just as good as you can..that is good enough…on a day to day basis do whatever you can to get your work in exhibitions, books, magazines or whatever appeals to you…but even this is all miscellaneous to the big picture…just do as good as you can and do not worry …try not to think of how you will “end up”…this will not be your decision or anything you can do anything about anyway…in the short run, just fall in love with a project..be consumed…do that first…do not worry now about what comes second….
cheers, david
“Fame is the spur that the clear spirit doth raise
(That last infirmity of Noble mind)
To scorn delights, and live laborious dayes;
But the fair Guerdon when we hope to find,
And think to burst out into sudden blaze,
Comes the blind Fury with th’abhorrèd shears,
And slits the thin spun life. But not the praise,
Phoebus repli’d, and touch’d my trembling ears;
Fame is no plant that grows on mortal soil,
Nor in the glistering foil
Set off to th’world, nor in broad rumour lies,
But lives and spreds aloft by those pure eyes,
And perfet witnes of all judging Jove;
As he pronounces lastly on each deed,
Of so much fame in Heav’n expect thy meed.”
from Lycidas, by John Milton
It doesnt actually have anything to do with what everyone is talking about, but I like it
DAH:
But wait a second, you and Alex Webb and Pinkhassov do great work all of the time from what I can see. You guys work at the highest levels. Sometimes I go through the Magnum archive and I realize again just how great you really are.
Much respect.
I also like
“The rhino is a homely beast,
For human eyes he’s not a feast.
Farwell, farewell, you old rhinoceros,
I’ll stare at something less prepoceros.”
by Ogden Nash
I just was looking at a shot Martin Fuchs had on Magnum’s TwitPic of Koudelka in the New York office the other day showing around what looked to be like an A5 size book dummy. . . he does seem to always be producing. It was the first time that I saw in the credits of a Koudelka book “scans by. . .”, up until this point he has always had book prints made by the lab Pictorial Services in Paris. Now they are making scans for him
Priceless advice! Goddamn!
“MARCIN…
you are being too hard on yourself….first of all, forget “fame” because this is now a word synonymous with American Idol or something….just do good….just as good as you can..that is good enough…on a day to day basis do whatever you can to get your work in exhibitions, books, magazines or whatever appeals to you…but even this is all miscellaneous to the big picture…just do as good as you can and do not worry …try not to think of how you will “end up”…this will not be your decision or anything you can do anything about anyway…in the short run, just fall in love with a project..be consumed…do that first…do not worry now about what comes second….
cheers, david”
Jim Powers wrote,
” my judgement is that the work is uneven over time. The photos I’ve seen from the Genesis project seem pretentious to me, certainly not as interesting as “Workers” or even “Africa.””
I agree completely. Some of the representative early work that found its way into print/web
was very weak when measured against what some of the mid or upper level natural history photographers
produce. The subject (nature/wildlife) seemed to to way over his head and his signature style
didn’t do much to inspire a major reaction in the way one would suppose a project titled, “Genesis”
was meant to.
Haven’t seen much since the first selection of destinations but I think this is a case, perhaps,
where his ‘celebrity’ status in the industry might have generated more interest than the
actual content.
More power to him for undertaking a project of this magnitude but it does strike me as
somewhat of a self-serving endeavor.
DAVIN..
i cannot speak for Webb or for Pinkhassov , but i have had major breaks with the level of work..i have bursts..i have low points..i went for 7-8 yrs once without much to show for it except a certain level of professionalism..that was right after i won Magazine Photographer of the Year when i was 33 or 34…i then decided never to enter another contest again, and i never did…it messed with my head….however, i can always do professionally what is expected for magazines or for ad clients etc…i am talking about my highest levels of concentration and effort…it is not so consistent…i feel like now with Rio that i can do something that takes me “out there”…but, i have not done it yet…just because i think so, does not make it true….i will know in the next few weeks….that extra extra something is very very hard to achieve…
cheers, david
ok ALL..
AS I PROMISED…
A NEW LINK..
SUPER VERY HARDCORE..
SUPER EXPLICIT…
DO NOT OPEN AT SCHOOL OR WORK…
NEW LINK
NEW PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED..
do not open if u have weak stomach..
but if you dare open..
please watch till the very end..
the philosophical question comes last..
enjoy..
from grecolandia..
who would know?
i wouldnt..thats for sure..
ok..lighten up..grab a beer and watch..
my peepshow
:))))))
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg#slideshow/5429669690470548098
and in case u prefer proof sheet go here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg#
(dont kill the messenger..please..:)
DAH:
Yes, ok, but you are talking about working at the absolute highest levels within the medium :) I am sure your ‘professionalism’ = pretty good photos!
sound advice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYzgYEm3lDM
The exchange starting at 3:15 makes me cry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpt2HDI5Mcw&feature=related
DAH
Saw your schedule. Demands on your time will outpace hours in a day..should i grease my wheel?
Best
Kathleen
PATRICIA
I subscribe to the policy that If it´s worth saying, it´s worth saying carefully and directly to the individual that should hear it, in public or if it´s a difficult subject, by e-mail. One simply cannot hope to erase all footprints in the internet sand. And i don´t see the point in trying really, unless you´re running for public office. If i had to go back over the last 13 years and erase every stupid thing i have said online i would need an entire team of internet archaeologists to search it all out for me. I don´t worry about these things. So, if at some point you need to tell me something and you´re queasy about doing so here, you have my e-mail address. Please feel free to fire away :)))
Best
Kathleen
KATHLEEN…
where oh where did you see my schedule?? i have not even seen my schedule…i have always stayed pretty busy my whole career and find that even when very busy, there is enough time in there to sit and chat with friends, bike down a trail or two, or otherwise create leisure time right in the middle of a heavy load…i cannot think of anything i am doing that would be described as “work”…or should i say work drudgery…if i have too much leisure time on my hands, i tend to waste it…so, i am one of those types who should be busy..otherwise i will either waste my time or worse do something crazy and get in trouble..in any case, i am ready to talk to you anytime…please skype me over the weekend (early morning best) and we can think about your work….
cheers, david
Davin, Marcin……… the famous part is created by society not you as an individual, a bit of luck, some good PR,repetition, some great bullshit etc. All you can do is what you are doing.
DAH
oh, well, by ‘schedule’ i mean what i pick up reading your tweets..unpacking and packing for Rio simultaneously, skyping lots of people, all that stuff. I, um, don’t have Skype. I sent you my 800 number which you can call for free from any telephone, or if you care to e-mail me your telephone number i can call you from the same internet line.
I’ll send you and e-mail.
Thanks!
Kathleen
Panos,
I got the beer and I’m ready to ‘lighten up’ and when I click on the link there is nothing. Further exploration, click on ‘panos skoulidas’, gives this ominous result: Account for domain panosfotografia.com has been suspended.
Um, did the peepshow show too much peep?
Doug
http://www.etrouko.com.au/imants.htm
Same for me, Panos
Either link ends in ‘no permission’
hmmm…
how about if u click here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqv_PDJl62KmgE#
….click then slideshow or double click on thumps…
Image 22 6th from the right ….that’s him as in 44
oime…PANO… how did I miss that …emerging show…???
oime…BURN is full of Surprises…!!!:)))
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqv_PDJl62KmgE#slideshow/5429669690470548098
does this slideshow opens now..???
too many glitches
Civi..:)
thats not emerging..
thats Pro/Iconic show..
:)
as i was telling my friend thomas ..this was a show protesting over INSTITUTIONAL VIOLENCE..
it wasnt sex just for sex…
a team from Berlin and a team from San Francisco…
the links are open now..the auth key was missing..
my mistake..
once again click here for slideshow:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqv_PDJl62KmgE#slideshow/5429669690470548098
and here for proofsheet:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqv_PDJl62KmgE#
now get that coffee/beer and think..is the traditional ways of think in danger?
I dunno, Panos. A little over the top for me. Good low light technique, though. ;)
Jim..
same for me..
i wasnt expecting it either..
i was so shocked that i was constantly hiding behind my camera..
when in ultimate shock i was acting like i was changing
camera settings..
:)
in fact i guess i was the only one shocked from the whole audience..
i was so shocked that i was constantly hiding behind my camera..common Panos no need to hide behind your dreams, so they have a bit of nightmare about them…..grin
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqv_PDJl62KmgE#5429670998826826354
especially this moment scared me..i thought it was coming for me…:)
Imants..
ok..ok.. i lied..i loved it
;)
..this was a show protesting over INSTITUTIONAL VIOLENCE..
it wasnt sex just for sex…
Right, and next month they’ll be doing it to protest earthquakes. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Nope. Nothing wrong with a bit of the old “protesting institutional violence.” At least not among consenting adults.
Important to some…….. http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/free-online-journalism-courses
Great resource, Imants. Thanks.
Wake up BURNIANS
Party is on…there is a little bit of everything…
I am drinking beer and I am watching a protest against violence…
Why I haven’t found BURN earlier …in my life…
I would have been a more “complete”,well informed, more educated…:)))
civilian …afterall…!!!
LOVE you All…THANK YOU Universe …thank you Sponsors, MR.HARVEY,BURNIANS!!!
P.S KATIE…fire me up???:)))!!! What where u thinking !!!
one down …23,677.009.009….to go
Today …it was One of the toughest weeks ever for Red Cross volunteers here in grecoland
and i think in all …the Universe…
P.S I have to thank PANOS, HAIK, ALEXANDRA, NIKO and others for their donations…
BUT yes, we never give up …we are One …after all…
I am going to the fridge… what a week …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vAqekT-GuA&feature=related
COME together
Why I haven’t found BURN earlier …in my life…
———————————————-
coz there was none..:)
I know not too many people here care about flickr, but we do have a group already started by DAH on flickr, and it is a good way to post photographs and network with each other. If your interested
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1223452@N25/
unless you object David? I just noticed its there but not many contributors.
Best, Valery
I didnt know we had a flickr site until Valery brought it up. Went there and put some pix. enjoy the rest of your day, guys.
at last…it was about time…
why did it take so long to be approved??
;)
yeahh im happy coz i found another mustache couch to snatch some free net..
viva venice piracy
Akaky good to see your photos added. Its a nice way to see burnians work together in one place and link up to one another.
…cant wait to see Imants adding photos there too….
“I am Paranoid”
I ain’t Flickroid, so no go…………
..as a non member I cannot post comments under your photos Panos, so here is one for all the burn mob…….”because you are probably a nice person done good, fantasic picture “
Hi David.
Having just read Jeff Hladins concerns, I must say that what came to me as being most important in any community, as you guys are aware as me, is the transparency of such a community such as this here in BURN.
So with Jeff Hladins very important thoughts, and worries, on the potential corruption of corporate sponsorship, and your response, was another example of how this model of interaction directly between you, the director’s, and us, the viewers here in BURN, is something that has all the ingrediants of making for long lasting engagement.
I agree with every concern Jeff brought up, and with your response. I guess its yet another facet of that game we call politics. Manouvering through this society we live in.
thanks once again to BURN for putting in the effort in what they recognize as being an important direction for this community to be looking forward to.
regards.
Peter Grant.
PETER…
thank you for your endorsement of the sponsorship possibilities…
however, i would like to take this one step further…please remember why we are looking for grants and qualified sponsors in the first place…we are trying to create potential model for the internet since the biggest complaint about the net is that photographers are rarely paid for their work to appear as is now the norm for print…with the demise of print and the move to the net, still there are few models where photographers are paid properly…
this intitiative with BD is wholly in the hopes that we can change that here at Burn..so that anyone published here might receive payment for their work..we cannot do that now, but we hope to do so in the future…if a large medical supply company like BD chooses Burn over a larger media company to sponsor a major photographer is certainly a first…think about it….BD could have put their money and JN in many places with circulations much larger than ours…..i mean with anyone….why us?? simply because of our stated goals of having a basic education mission and in support of the next generation of photographers…
we are working on a budget plan right now where BD would support 2-3 photograhers from this audience on new story projects….we are also applying for grants to do the same…and perhaps we would take in another qualified company to support certain kinds of either journalistic or art based projects….we are being very careful…remember also that Burn by the end of 2010 will have given $35,000 in grants to photographers from this audience…the tax free donations have been a dollar in and a dollar out…we have taken no admin percentage from the donations to the EPF..we quite legally could of course, but we have not…
point is Peter, this initiative is for the readers here….even the sponsorship money that came to us from BD was of no profit to Burn..we paid JN well as we should, and we hope this will lead to equal payments to others…the funds left to Burn would in no way cover the man hours that went into closing this deal by Kerry Payne , Anton Kusters, and yours truly…Anton flew from Belgium to New York to work for three solid days with Jim on the slide show and in securing rights cleared music etc etc..i had previously spent a solid two days working with Jim in Thailand prior in a sound studio….Kerry Payne worked night and day on the contract, business plan, and all the details that go into something like this..oh yes, what attracted BD in the first place was the infomercial that is in the Burn ABOUT page…heaven knows how many hours Anton and i put into that baby…every i dotted and every t crossed….
all of this work to the point where we all agreed at one point that we would never try sponsorship again…too time consuming, too much the wrong kind of work for us….all that looks simple is not….after it finally came down, we did change our minds a bit and realized something special had happened….i do not think this apparent to this audience as much as it is to the the large media companies who have the money to create this model hundreds of times over , but actually cannot do it beause of their own bureaucracies and large overheads…
no major media company would have or could have made the deal we made for an online presentation…
Anton and i would like to see enough funding come into Burn so that we can continue and grow…we cannot grow without funding and we might not even be able to continue without funding…for Burn is a full time job on top of our already full time photographic careers…the minute it is not fun for us, Burn will be over….so far, we are loving every minute of watching Burn as a movable feast…and feeling every day more and more responsibility to our craft and to our readers here…
Burn will not last forever…nothing should….Burn should only last as long as positive evolution is its mainstay….Burn is like an essay itself…an artistic work in progress…it had a beginning, an evolution and there will be an end….a picture with a frame around it hanging on a wall…but, this painting is not done yet…there are brush strokes to be made….and the best artists know when a painting is done and when to start another….i will keep my eyes wide open….
again thanks Peter for being the gentleman that you are…..
cheers, david
DAH
wow..now THAT was a reason to stay up late…
*softly*
best
kathie
For anyone who missed it:
Imants
January 23, 2010 at 8:16 am
Important to some…… http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/free-online-journalism-courses
Maybe this should be added to the permanent links on Burn??
Haiti, looting and media.. makes for an interesting read.. and we’re once again back to ethics:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175194/tomgram:_rebecca_solnit,_in_haiti,_words_can_kill
Absolutely, eva, which is why I rant on about the ethics of the photographic pain and misery circuit. We’re mostly voyeurs, exploiting these people and moving on.
Yeah well… Rebecca Solnit is selling her book. One could say she is thriving on the anti misery circuit feelings.
I don’t think it really matters. In the long run the crooks will be confounded.
Well, Jim, I think it’s quite complicated. I do think people have to be informed, educated, turning away or closing our eyes doesn’t change the fact that things are happening. It’s HOW we are informed, how we inform.. and of course easy and sensationational (is that a word??) sells better..
John Vink, you have a point there, of course.. I don’t know her nor the site where I found the article, and yes, she is selling the book.. with all the talking about PJs rushing to Haiti (yes, they should, no the should not, the who and why) and considering how the news are covered over here in TV, on the net, newspapers etc., I do think she makes valid affirmations.. but it’s always difficult when personal promotion is involved.. black and white.. and shades of grey overlooked..
http://www.wiadomosci24.pl/artykul/reporterzy_cnn_zamiast_pomoc_filmowali_smierc_haitanczykow_123612.html
Rebecca Solnit is selling her book……maybe page 56 has a picture of a egg and bacon sandwich that the desperate in Haiti can salivate over.
the bbc is the only organization i have worked with, (in spain), who were unable to take any help in the form of some kind of sponsorship.. accomodation or travel expenses..
for print magazines funding for my work has always come through p.r. budgets, tourist boards, councils, individual event promoters and the like..
it has always been the mainstay of print publishing in my areas, and i understand that it can in a similar way for other kinds of PJ work involving NGO´s..
the fact it is now becoming applicable to the web is great – it´s new for the web, even though it has existed for a long while in print journalism… and although there are conflict of interest challenges, they are just as they always were in print media.. and case by case is the right way forward.
i wonder what the potential for burn might be with photographers finding their own funding, as i have often had to do over the years?
by way of example – in seeking to complete my work on young people in northern ireland, (for which funding has already come through the derry city council and prs foundation amongst others),
would it be possible to use burn the way that print mags were used to gather funding? – pending guaranteed publication of course.
in other words – could a photographer approach a funding body to enable a piece of work with burn as a secured outlet, and quote readership figures and page views, just as with traditional magazines we would quote readership and print run?
DAVID BOWEN…
every photographer i know works to secure funding one way or another for their projects…however, i am not sure if i have ever heard of an example in the print world where a photographer secured outside funding to be used as first time rights publication for a specific magazine….usually,once one finds funding independently with print media as the outlet, the photographer tries to sell the story to as many outlets as possible to recoup the investment…on really provocative or popular topics of course, photographers who had in their hand a marketable story, might actually have publications bidding against each for this story…but, those days are gone i think…..right now this is just not happening on the web and is unlikely since linking is so easy…however, perhaps your idea would work in netland if certain outlets became known for producing original material……again, i think all things on a case by case basis and the media landscape is changing by the day….Wired Magazine is already planning a fall launch of their magazine on the tablet and the tablet does not even exist (until wednesday i think)…i.e.for Rio, i am thinking magazine, book, tv, net, tablet….
cheers, david
JIM…
some exploit and some move on, but not all..are you familiar with http://www.aftermathproject.org ??? if not, please check it out…
spot news photography was always unattractive to me for many of the reasons you suggest…however, i am pleased that not everyone feels as do you or i….much good work does come out of news coverage, much does stimulate positive action ,and as in all fields, there are the good guys and the bad guys….
in any case, please note that some photographers stay on the case for years as does our venerable John Vink (Cambodia), Stanley Greene (Chechnya), Maggie Steber(Haiti), Philip Jones-Griffiths(Vietnam) etc etc…
i am sure would agree that we do need news of current events…you publish it every day in your paper…i am sure we both support news coverage, and we both support integrity in that coverage..
cheers, david
Well, David. In the first 24 hours we knew from the images that a catastrophe had occurred in Haiti. A month from now, most of those photographers and news agencies will be gone, all the music industry stars will have gathered to sing “We Are The World,” again, and average folks will be engaged by a new “disaster or the day.” But the people in Haiti will still be impoverished and desperate. Where were all these news networks and photographers before the earthquake trying to find solutions to the problems there?
I understand photographers have to go where they can get paid to be; but, it smacks a lot of ambulance chasing to me.
David, re: your latest tweet. AC adapters are the bane of my existence. I bought a label maker several years ago and I label adapters and wall warts the minute I take them out of the box to indicate what they go to. Cables are stored in small ziplock bags with the equipment they are intended for written on the bag with a Sharpie. It has lowered my stress level tremendously. :)
JIM…ALL
yes, yes…we all agree i think on this point…it often does “smack of ambulance chasing”…..i am simply saying that there are SOME who are trying to alleviate this conundrum, and SOME photographers who do stick with it as per mentioned in my last comment to you…did you see the Aftermath Project efforts?
re: cables…i am working on a similar system…and when i start a project, all looks good…but once i start working, and everything comes out of the respective bags, there is a chaos that gives me a severe headache….on that note, i gotta go to work….working with the nicest family…pleasant day expected…
i am betting on a tablet announcement on wednesday by Apple…our world will change big big big…what you think??
cheers, david
David, the website you linked to is defunct.
JIM…
really?? hmmmmmm….well, i do not know what to say about that since Sarah Terry was so committed and i saw her as a potential help for Burn photographers…maybe she simply ran out of support which would be too too bad…Sarah was very committed in her efforts, for she believed strongly in exactly what you believe…i will investigate what happened to the Aftermath Project on monday..thanks for the tipoff….
there is a “the” missing in the link above…
http://www.theaftermathproject.org
Nothing defunct, just a word missing in the link:
http://www.theaftermathproject.org/
Yeah. It’s often hard to get continued support when you’re tilting with windmills. Too bad, though.
Oh, good.
Glad it isn’t gone.
just saw my mistake…only thing defunct is me…laughing….sorry…my mind on cables….ok, good…Aftermath Project up and running…good…please take a close look…and Sarah Terry one of the best folks in our business for sure…
I did submit my Nicosia project for their grant in 2007… didn’t get it of course but the process of applying was in itself a very interesting exercise… also tried Open Society’s Moving Walls…
http://www.soros.org/initiatives/photography/focus_areas/mw
DAH:
http://static.www.odcdn.com/pictures/us/od/sk/lg/559333_sk_lg.jpg
might be easier than writing, blue belongs to blue, red to red etc., dummy proof (ask me how I know ;) )
Also, the Aftermath Project produces a book out of each year’s winners and runners up submissions for their grant…
(hi Eva:))
(hi Thodoris.. Cyprus-Italy 1:0.. ;) )
(sorry… I don’t follow sports at all… good for Cyprus I suppose??)
was a joke, Thodoris, you beat me with posting the correct link above..
dah
you´re right – publication fee´s have never come from sponsoring bodies for me.
it´s always been on the accom n travel where help has come, and guaranteed reproduction in at least one international magazine has been the requirement filled.. and that has paid the first time publication fee.
rather than bidding, i´ve found magazines have allowed multiple publication of unique images and different story spins, which has mean´t single trips could appear in sometimes up to 4 or 5 mags simultaneously.. apart from as with last years trips where i was pushed to sign year or two year long exclusivity deals.
silly me… thought you were making a football reference or something… people around here are quite fanatic about these things… surprisingly (to me) there are plenty of women among them too… so yes, I beat you this time around :)
We are drinking to the Aftermath Project…
many BURNIANS have helped …and THANK YOU for your immediate response !!!
therefore MRS.TERRY …red wine on you !!!
and a big THANK YOU to our D.A.K.* team…and to all of the silents but powerful forces behind
the masterminds
*D= DAVID A. HARVEY
A= ANTON
K= KERRY
P.S…BURNIANS …we are movable feast or fist …VIVA!!!
BURNIANS – CROOKS 3-0 :))) (MR.VINK’S words …:)))…:)))
and dear BURNIANS …I hope that my weak knees can hold me to dance until I see the end of BURN…
BUT until that day …I will DANCE like there is no tomorrow!!!
Jim; “Cables are stored in small ziplock bags with the equipment they are intended for written on the bag with a Sharpie. It has lowered my stress level tremendously”
Me too! I’ve got so pedantic and paranoid about leaving things at home that I’ve got a print out list of everything I musn’t forget… How sad is that….? :-) I always knew that in the film days I’d end up going somewhere and have the film safely sitting in the fridge (at home)!!!
I know that politics is not a big hit around here, but this is something that will affect all of us, no matter of our ideological differences:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/34985508#34985508
And if you’re unclear as to what a corporation is, how it’s structured and how it functions:
http://www.thecorporation.com
…i.e.for Rio, i am thinking magazine, book, tv, net, tablet….
David, that is the great part about the media available one can present the same images/essays etc in different forms to suit the needs of communication. The tablet should be great as one can use a portrait style setup with images, something that the wide screen TVs, LCDs almost killed of.
one of the better Haiti features I have seen:
http://blogs.wsj.com/photojournal/2010/01/22/photographer-jason-henry-documents-chaos-in-haiti-for-wsj/
Haiti as entertaiment………. http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/01/world/haiti.360/index.html
Hi David.
Lovely metaphor with the painting. Just wondering what sort of painting it is. Is it a Leonardo davinci, the renaissance man looking ahead, inventing as much as creating the beautiful. But I could also think of it as being more like a gallery than a painting, I hope.
I don’t want to say to much other than your an educator David, I love that, and want to try and absorb what you’ve said. I know what you mean also about wanting to see more discussion here, which is what I am keen on too. Sometimes I should hold back and listen like now.
Look forward to everything published here. Always different and surprising.
thanks David, and pass on my appreciation to Anton also in my admiration. Shout him a beer for me, and love to pay it back one day.
cheers, Peter.
Tablets……. there will be heaps around scroll from page to page to page http://www.engadget.com/search/?q=tablets&invocationType=wl-gadget
http://www.engadget.com/archive/01.07.10
http://www.engadget.com/archive/01.06.10
http://www.engadget.com/archive/01.08.10
etc
To go and do it again, I only need to think that I can affect even one life for the better: by helping people understand, holding them accountable for their actions and using the work as a tool for education.
One last thing. People always say to me, “If you can’t change it all, why bother to change a little?”
The answer is simple: How can you not bother to do it? Photography can’t change the world. But can have an effect.
ron haviv on lens.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/assignment-21/
David B “How can you not bother to do it?”
Totally agree. The one guarantee is that if you don’t try to do some good then nothing good will happen!
THODORIS:
I am surprised no one commented on the video you posted.
JIM..
I imagine we all take your general point about the ugly thought of human vultures praying on the dead carcass’s of other human beings before their even put in their graves, but I think your argument’s wearing a bit thin. You just wrote that “where were all the photographers trying to find a solution to their problems before the earthquake began” I don’t think its up to ‘news networks’ to fix the political and social problems of anyone. Some individual journalists may feel so strongly about something, that they spend much effort in bringing it to our attention, but still, its not up to them to fix anything. It may be up to them to alert us to the needs of other societies around this common planet though, which is generally what the better one’s are doing.
I think there will be many more people around this planet more aware of the work Medicine san frontiers are doing, more aware of the work OXFAM is doing, more aware of the dedication ICRC have.
I feel your cynicism Jim. I am often heard raging on about the commercial news programers, but this rage also extends on to real estate salesmen, politician’s, and producers generally. Then I start seeing the generosity and beauty created by many others and think, Yeh, we’re not such a bad bunch sometimes.
I think your a big teddy bear Jim. A softy at heart. Peter.
The US Supreme Court changes the rules of the game… there is no longer a limit into how much money corporations can spend on political campaigns… politics and therefore in low making will radically change after this… remember the huge uproar about the revision of the copyright low, or the internet neutrality thing??
This is potentially the end of all debate.
Here is Keith Olbermann’s analysis:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/34985508#34985508
And here is the most comprehensive information about what is a corporation after all:
http://www.thecorporation.com
I can understand that some people might not like Olbermann (or me) but do yourself a favor and try to find some information on this Supreme Court ruling from any source you deem trustworthy…
It’s always been troubling to me that money is equated with speech. But, as disastrous as this ruling could be to democracy, the fact is that in modern times money and speech are inseparably connected. Does it give advantage to those who have it, and disadvantage those who don’t? Absolutely. But the government through legislation trying to slice and dice who can give how much to whom is as political as the corporations who will take advantage of this ruling to influence them.
In the end, you either have to take money completely out of the equation by preventing anyone, individuals or entities, from spending money toward any political end, or you have to allow everyone to do so. There is no “democratic” way to do otherwise.
The problem with espousing democracy as a philosophy is that you then have to live consistently with its presuppositions. And we humans don’t seem to be very successful in philosophy, religion or politics to avoid hypocrisy in practice. We can certainly question the basic validity of the system, but it’s hard to do with any objectivity from within the system.
David AH,
just saw your tweet… have a great day! and a great start of the week to all burnians too.
What-are-you-shooting-this-week?
Jim,
On a theoretical level I do agree with you… in practice however—and since the “taking money completely out of the equation” is just not an option up for debate—I do think that *some* checks and balances are better than *none*…
Thodoris, I agree. But who do we trust create those checks and balances? What scale do we use to establish such a balance? There is no objective “third party” to impose such rules that isn’t either harmed or benefited by them. It’s at times like this I’m glad I’m a photographer rather than a philosopher. :)
Jim,
Indeed, that’s the question… who do you trust with making the rules??
As for democracy in general, the whole representational democracy bit starts off on the wrong foot anyways… when one person “represents” 10,000 or 100,000 people then your system is susceptible to corruption by the get go… people are not machines… they have feelings, dreams, needs and wants, and they can easily be manipulated through them…
The digital age has almost given us the tools to make a direct democracy possible. Almost. The problem then becomes one of establishing a consensus, a likely impossible goal given the cultural and political diversity in the US.
The limitations of the blog format are really apparent with this Nachtwey essay. Two questions, really. What was the deal with BD on how long the essay would be the featured one? And, what happens with the essay next? Seems to need some spot rather than to be listed simply with the other essays. How do you contract for “one time use” when one time keeps it on the site permanently? Or does it?
Just curious how this stuff is going to work in the online world.
Photography/democracy/freedom of speech.
Look what’s happening in Uzbekistan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8473285.stm
Possibly 6 months in prison for taking and showing what life is like, a special commission set up to appraise the pictures….
Happy shooting
ian
Well, prosecuting her by itself shows them to be backward… they don’t need her help to establish that much…
THODORIS…JIM
i found the video editorial from MSNBC disturbing….while Obama did outspend everybody (by using grass roots money), making campaign finance reform a concept of the past anyway, the power of corporations to control everything is now manifested in the most obvious way…what scares me always is of course the power of the Supreme Court who really decide most of the truly important issues in the U.S. as a fait d’acompli and these issues never come up before the citizens to be discussed, voted on etc etc..we vote for candidates, not on issues, and the candidates will be “owned”..i suppose they always have been, but now there is really no check and balance on it of any kind….
JIM..
good question…but, i do not see “limitations” of the blog format….obviously neither does BD…”one time use” is of course different with the net if you consider that it will always be in the archive easily accessible, a sponsor plus ..but it is in fact the same one time use, just as in print…your old copies of Life still have the same advertisers(sponsors)on the same pages as when it was originally printed..it is simply a matter of whether the reader throws the print magazine away or keeps it on the shelf…with the net it is always on the shelf so to speak..always in the archive, but it is still “one time use”…secondary use would involve restructuring the content and republishing in another sister magazine or book, which we do not have….and we cannot sell this package to any third party…
since this is all brand new publishing territory, i assume we will have to make adjustments of various kinds as we move along…we are already trying to figure out the best payment plan for photographers whose work will appear in the print version of Burn..since it will be for on demand sale, the first thing that must be done is to pay the photographers whose work appears..
my long time role as photographer’s rights activist will not be in any way diminished because at this point i also happen to be a publisher..quite the contrary….the established photographers (like JN) know this well and is one of the reasons that we will most likely have no trouble in matching top funding with top photographers from a “rights” perspective…
we did offer BD more viral exposure than we do with most essays because of their sponsorship..Kerry Payne did an excellent job of making sure the BD/JN essay will reach millions….however, the JN essay will come down tonight and go into the archive of Burn as with any other essay…
cheers, david
Ian Aitken beat me to the punch with the link to the BBC’s story and photo gallery of Umida Akhmedova, the Uzbek photographer being prosecuted for presenting a ‘negative image’ of Uzbekistan. A look through her photographs on display there leaves one baffled at what is so objectionable… clearly, the authorities have a totalitarian and completely unrealistic view of how Uzbekistan should be presented… this type of control over imagery was common in Stalin’s Soviet Union, Mao’s China, and in North Korea today. What makes it an absurd anachronism is that many tourists travel to Uzbekistan these days, and the images so objectionable to the state prosecutor as making the country look ‘backward’ are ones that most tourists would probably find attractive.
JIM,
I think living with democracy as a philosophical concept is the very thing that has enlightened western societies through the ages. Just think over the 20th century. Its impossible to think today that woman would not have the right to vote. The same goes for many indigenous groups who up until only recently, also didn’t have the right to vote. These changes are moving through many other societies throughout the planet. Which I understand be due to a philosophical understanding of what is right and wrong. Really thinking and understanding the concept. Its ignorance that intrudes on us as individuals feeling inclusive. Of course power corrupts but that dosen’t necessarily bring down the fact that the more we understand others, the better generally our society will be. Don’t you think?
DAH, THODORIS,
It probably comes as no surprise to you that I think Jim is right on the Court’s decision. Once you have the government deciding which groups, be they corporations, non-profits, unions, advocacy groups, or AA, are worthy of a hearing and which are not it is only a matter of time before the government starts deciding which citizens are worthy of a hearing and which are not, and it does not take a leap of imagination to figure out that the government deciding this will inevitably privilege those citizens who agree with its policies than those who do not (Cf. the debate about Limbaugh and the Fairness Doctrine). It would be great if somehow we could remove the influence of money from elections, but that isn’t possible; American elections have always cost money; when George Washington first ran for the Virginia House of Burgesses in 1755 he lost because, amongst other things, he didnt hand out free drinks to the voters. This was a mistake he didnt make when he ran again in 1758, when he bought enough liquor to keep the voters drunk and happy for a week. After he won, the Burgesses passed a law saying that candidates for election could not buy the voters free drinks, an early attempt at campaign finance reform that was wildly unpopular with the electorate. But whether the coin of the political realm is cash or corn liquor, the result is the same: getting your name in front of the voters is expensive and always has been, and until someone can convince the televison stations to hand out free air time for campaign ads, elections will continue to be expensive.
As for the Uzbeks, I think that if they do not want people to besmirch the good name of Uzbeks and Uzbekistan they should change the name of the country to Hawaii or Miami. or maybe even Bahamastan. Most people do not badmouth those places, especially at this time of year, when those of us in the Northern Hemisphere are altogether sick of winter.
Peter, I think democracy only works in the long run if everyone puts that democracy over self interest. The problem, of course, is that increasingly powerful individuals and entities progressively put their interests first. At some point it ceases being a democracy and becomes something else entirely. Some think we have already crossed that line. I’m not certain of that, but if not I think we are very close. Democracy itself, though, seems to me to present obstacles to our preventing it. Time will tell.
AKAKY…
your point well made…and , as i pointed out, Obama certainly won because he had raised significant funding…still, it seems to me his money was “cleaner” having come in the form of $10. donations from “us” rather than millions coming in from corporations who would reap almost immediate financial rewards and potentially influence policy..i suppose it comes down to what splits our country down the middle..who is more responsible, corporations or government?..both in the past have shown themselves to be corrupt and responsible depending on circumstances, who is in charge, etc etc..i am certainly not anti business nor anti corporation…this country runs on both…and corporations are made up of “us”…just as is government…the one advantage of government is that the people who run it are elected by “us”, whereas the corps are unknown quantities in the leadership arena….both of us i am sure can cite examples of government run amok and corps gone wrong…i am for healthy versions of both….
i do enjoy talking to people who disagree with me more than those who do in the political arena..yesterday i photographed a very fine American family…i will be with them again today and the next few days…during breaks in the actual shooting, we had time for a glass of wine and burgers off the porch grill…it did not take long for me to realize these fine folks, and my young assistant, were on the “other side”…fearing our country was going socialist, why no prayer in schools, and that the Muslims were coming to get us..i just listened….as i said these are just the kind of people you want as neighbors, friends, etc..smart kids and responsible parents..there was nothing about their life that could be criticized and they were minimally materialistic by U.S. standards and in general had their “act together”…i guess the point is that at least in our democracy we can have wildly different versions of where we ought to “go”, yet nobody is being hauled off in the middle of the night…as long as our differences are largely rhetorical , then i think we are ok…but, i have worked in many a totalitarian country where differing views meant serious repercussions..whichever way this country swings, i do not see it in danger of radicalism seriously manifested in either direction…you can come over any time….
now, back to f/8 and be there….
cheers, david
It’s important to understand that the U.S. Constitution was designed to deter democracy. That’s no secret or conspiracy theory. Although it’s never phrased quite that way, we learn all about it in high school civics. That’s the purpose of both the Supreme Court and the Senate.
Over time, those institutions have developed other ways to further lessen and deter democracy. One of the most important developments along those lines was the granting corporations the same rights as individuals and, in practice, many more rights than any individual. The latest Supreme Court decision just continues the pattern of “one step forward, three steps back.”
One of the things that attracted me to burn was the lack of political nonsense. I guess I’m just going to have to struggle to ignore it. (struggling, struggling, failing) But I will just note that the right wing argument in this case (and others) is essentially that it’s necessary to weaken or destroy individual liberty in order to guarantee it would be laughable if it were not causing so much damage. Best at this point to just ignore it though, take David’s advice and worry about the space around us, cause we, as a nation, are so far down that slippery slope to oligarchic kleptocracy that we ain’t coming back.
So okay, no more politics from me. Here’s another little slideshow I’ve picked from my interminable walking around brooklyn. In order to make it more interesting (to me, at least), I’ve included several of the themes that are often discussed here. The differences between digital black and white and color, thoughts on (some) photographers’ penchant for chasing poverty, and other themes unrecognized, as well as my actual intentions which I would never discuss.
On a related note, I enjoy the Flikr site but don’t upload photos myself because I prefer to have control of the presentation.
Akaky…
Indeed, I’m not surprised of your post.
The fact of the matter though, is that even though the current (scratch that, previous) system was flawed in so many ways, the decision to let the corporations run things out in the open—without even the pretense of checks to their power—will inevitably lead to our free speech be silenced by their “free speech” … they already control pretty much all of the big media… how much more free speech do they need? And if you think the internet will save us, think again… why do they strive to gain even tighter (to their existing, that is) control of the government? Because the government controls the legislation—which pretty much dictates the rules for everything else…
michael, thanks for the slide show. Definitely prefer the color versions. The B&W really changes the images.
JIM/THODORIS/DAH/AKAKY
We are entering very dangerous territory with the supreme court ruling. Whether we still call it democracy today will matter little when the greatest point of discrimination is allowed to be played out. Supporting or not supporting a certain ideology (profit motive above all) will become the new racism. Corporations seen by the law as individuals are psychopathic when measured by their actions as per the DSM-IV (psychiatric diagnostic manual). Hitler was democratically elected and also used corporations to fuel his empire. When the state is represented by the interests of corporations you have a fascist democracy. The lesson the Holocaust was to provide was the we never let it happen again. Yet it is happening right now while everyone is out shopping, worried about their job, making their mortgage payment, getting paid for their photography.
It is interesting that this ruling passed during the biggest financial meltdown since the depression. They are hoping no one will notice. Of course we all need to make a living, but does great art, socially aware art have to be bought and paid for? Will sponsors only support artists that fit their agenda? This concerns me.
To be perfectly clear… my intention wasn’t to ruin Michael’s on anyone else’s day by talking politics… I just thought that this is the biggest news story out there with the direst implications for the future—not only of the US, since corporations know no boundaries—and that you should know about it, if you didn’t already…
MICHAEL…
fair enough..we do not talk equipment and the political discussion has no end, so i am done too…not sure how we got into it..oh yeah, Haiti did it…well, hard to avoid when it comes to policy and politics as they relate to the myriad of subjects we photograph…
Michael,
Dude, stick with color! B&W looks like an affectation, especially with the hazy effect you’re applying. Nice work. No reason not to let it stand straight.
THODORIS…FRANK
agree 1000% in principle…but Frank i do not think it will go Hitlerian extreme…approval on “artists”??..yea, possible…
MICHAEL..
color
No worries Thodoris, talk about whatever you want. I have no desire to control anyone’s conversation. My day only gets ruined when I talk politics and that’s something I can (theoretically) control.
Thanks Jim. Though I’m okay with the B&W and put some small effort into making them work, I prefer the color too. But then they were conceived in color. Had I been thinking in B&W, I probably wouldn’t have taken most of those shots. No doubt there would be others that would not work so well in color.
Michael
I agree with the rest- color, nice work
DAVID
Any pics from Rio? Some snaps? Pics by phone? any pics?
Oh I know… I’m nosy…
But is so freezing here, some Rio Pictures could help me warm.
:)
Michael…
I liked the color ones better too… and very nice fit with the song… never heard it before… only have some of their more out there songs on my “fast” playlist for when printing in the darkroom… the “Where is the Love” by Black Eyed Peas is on that list too…
DAH
I think as long as we are aware of what is happening and we can make individual choices to participate in it or not it will not go to any extreme. I tend to use hyperbole to make my point. If we are united as the human race, considering our neighbors as brothers and sisters, literally and geographically then I think we will be fine. I think photography has a strong role to play in this regard. Nuf said.
MICHAEL
Very nice work. I like the color shots too. Did you get the license to use the music? I have similar slideshows on my site and some of the music artists I know and have asked their permission to use the music. I am currently trying to get the license to use a particular piece of music but it is like pulling teeth.
DAVID/ANTON
Do you have any advice for getting license to use music in a multimedia format?
Thanks,
Frank
Frank,
if you have the time to listen into some songs and select them to fit to the pictures,
you may have a look into Jamendo http://www.jamendo.com
There you find free music and they also explain how to use it in Multimedia.
(And I am curious,too, how DAH and Anton get commercial music for their multimedia)
THOMAS
Thanks very much I will definitely look into it.
Frank, no, typically these slideshows are just for myself and maybe three or four other people will see them. Although I would not use someone’s music without permission for commercial work, I don’t see any problem with this and consider it consistent with the Fair Use doctrine. If anyone noticed and complained, I would apologize profusely and take it down immediately.
Music is superfluous and, in my view, annoying. Nothing I hate worse than websites with sound that plays without my direction. Michael, just post your photos. The music doesn’t have anything to do with them and detracts from the viewers’ experience.
michael webster
nice slideshow…….
and dont worry about the song..Rage or “R.A.T.M”..would never do that to u or anybody..they are cool people…:)
With their bass player Tim C we used to be good friends, mountain bikers team and also I use to run a coffee shop that he owned ( sold to him by my sister , previously owned by our family )back in 2000 in Santa Monica…
Michael
Interesting. I preferred most of the color images, individually, but preferred the way the
black and white set worked with the music.
I’d agree with Preston in that I don’t appreciate an unrelated music track for illustrative
or documentary pieces but I like the way the appropriate musical score can support a set
of images that is more personal or introspective
“R.A.T.M”..would never do that to u or anybody..they are cool people…”
….but what about their agents,lawyers, accountants :>))
I’ve been sued by some very nice people over the years.
MARCIN…
one of the deals with a commissioned assignment for any major magazine, and i am sure you know this, is that one cannot show the pictures to anyone before publication in the assigning magazine…this would be the sin of all publication sins….Natgeo is no exception….after publication , of course, the photographs, including the ones not published, will be in my archive and hopefully in a book….perhaps i can iPhone a snapshot or two on Twitter of something that does not relate to the assignment in Rio, like me passed out at a bar or something, but nothing that would even remotely resemble what i am actually shooting for the magazine..one of the things that any magazine gets for buying a photographer’s time is exclusivity of the subject matter….i am sure you understand….even the work i am doing for my personal project American Family, which is not commissioned work, i am reluctant to show….bad juju to show too much in advance of a final body of work….i may put a little bit of it up sometime soon on my new website (coming), but i always prefer for people to see finished work, preferably in a book….
MICHAEL…
bad news..the web is not considered fair use….all web sites are considered commercial…do not ask me why , but that is the rule…showing pictures in an auditorium for a lecture ok, but not right here…we have been all through this when we started Burn…lots of royalty free music out there however…or music that can be purchased for one time use on the web for a reasonable price…
THOMAS…
we use either royalty free music or purchase the one time rights for more known popular pieces…as MTomalty says, the artist may be cool, but their lawyers , agents, may not be….
FRANK…
agreed…
It’s surprising that photographers who would be incensed if someone posted one of their photos on a blog without their permission don’t think anything of using someone’s copyrighted music in their slideshow, but it happens all the time.
Michael; For me; the black and white images work the best.
Jim…in a way the artist gets also advertised…
i heard the song, loved it..bought it…
its the illegal download that hurts the song and the artist not its promotion…imo
JIM..
i would not care if someone snatched one of my pictures off the web and used it in a classroom lecture or had it on their refrigerator door…i know this and worse does happen all the time…if it gets into commercial use, then there is a problem…same i think for music…living room presentations i think are fair game for all commercial art…selling tickets, another story
Ross u like playing the trout…
;)
( i also prefer the color interpretation )
David, I’ve actually encouraged people to steal my personal photos over the years, but I’m a work for hire kind of guy and have never worried about rights related to personal work. I know you don’t agree with that, which is your right, and extends to you controlling whatever use you want to allow with your photos. And the same should apply to those who produce music. We are on the same page on that, I think.
most songs i bought is coz i heard them playing on someone else’s car or home stereo…
i also dont think utube is hurting the artist.. there has been times i bought a song from itunes store
due to an impulse..just because i fell in love with it through utube ( low sound quality )
I’ve done that, too, Panos. Music is a drug and Itunes a dealer. :)
DAVID,
I hope they give you permission for a snap or two. Of course I understand perfectly, but you know me, I am impatient like a 8 years old boy….
well.. I add two years too much :)
“It’s surprising that photographers who would be incensed if someone posted one of their photos on a blog without their permission don’t think anything of using someone’s copyrighted music in their slideshow, but it happens all the time.”
——————————–
Of course, you’re right. Sometimes it’s just so damned hard to resist. I’ve put “Change is Gonna Come” by Sam Cooke to a Iowa Caucus slideshow and “Dark was the Night” by Blind Willie Johnson to New Orleans devastation photos. I simply didn’t think about the parallels to photography copyright grabs until later.
“i would not care if someone snatched one of my pictures off the web and used it in a classroom lecture”
I use you pictures from magnum site for classroom lecture.
BTW – Always loved RATM, and think they did a fair job at remaking that Devo song. A little more weight to it than the original.
BTW – Always loved RATM,
—————————-
just to brag a bit.. my name in on their latest albums friends/comrades thank u list…
they would never sue for a song used for art purposes… its totally against their beliefs or ethics..
trust me..i know…
( noug’ bragging )
I’ve seen hobby-photographers calling their lawyers immediately after getting to know a picture was used on another website. They did not even stop for teenagers.
I supported a website for hobby photographers (fotocommunity) and as admins we were looking for copyright infringements to remove them before any lawyers could find them. This was to protect the site and the photographer.
Buying a CD or a track does not license for playing it on a website, or on youtube.
I bought onl a few CDs, but since I am using iTunes, I even don’t want to know how much money I already spent on buying music.
The jamendo approach for multimedia sounds reasonable for me – even for private projects, as it helps the artist and the website to survive in the long run.
MARCIN…
i am impatient like a 7 yr old boy…one of my jobs here is to drive you crazy..laughing…yea, use my pics all you want in your classroom…and if you sell one of your students an archival print, then i will give you the dealer commission!!
now, if it weren’t for Burn you would never know i was working on Rio…you would wonder “whatever happened to dah?”…i like it when people wonder that…when people have forgotten you is the best time to lay down a book….
JIM..
we are on the same page…while i am personally against work for hire for my own work, i see this as your right as well…frankly Jim, it is just a business arrangement…you have been paid over the years very well for the use of your pictures…you simply have taken the money one way as a guaranteed salary and i have taken it another…you have probably made way more for each picture(given your company benefits etc) over the years all told than have i…for me it is mostly psychological and i do see with my Magnum colleagues that leaving something behind for their families is also quite worthwhile…
Vietnow
“Music is a drug and Itunes a dealer. :)”
Anyone have an opinion of Mp3Shake ?
I abuse iTunes almost daily but when looking for the Moby track, Snowball, that is used in
James Nachtwey’s piece could only find it available on mp3shake.
Songs are $.25 apiece and albums $2-$3. Seems too reasonable to be true.
DAVID,
In Poland there is no print market and it’s really hard to sell any print especially as expensive as yours. I will buy one for sure, but I am waiting for better times… and waiting… and waiting.
Most my students didn’t knew your works before (too early) but I am always happy if they bring me a pictures full of colors to next classes always. And of course all the time “ohs” and wows”.
Well I always say “wows” when I see your photos, even if I saw them hundreds times.
Like I said it before you are HCB of color… you are DAH
time to sleep but keep the show goes on!
“Ross u like playing the trout…”
Not really… I just think that when you go out to shoot B&W (or colour) then you are in that headspace as you shoot. I’ve never found that conversions after the fact work very well.
Anyway; when I used to fish for trout all I caught was willow trees, blackberry and gorse bushes beside the river… :-)
Just a little jealous Panos.
California On Iran
California On the Recession
Ross plays the trout? I always had Ross pegged as a cod man…(oh oh, I feel an attack of fish puns coming on…..)
Just as a matter of curiosity, Ross, who do you get to tuna your trout anyway?
“Just as a matter of curiosity, Ross, who do you get to tuna your trout anyway?”
Booooo!
Venice On Drugs
Ross, are you secretly Lew Zealand from the muppets?
http://www.toymania.com/columns/spotlight/images/muppets3big4.jpg
Akaky; I just flounder along as best I can, and roe betide anyone who gets in my way….
Regarding Preston’s preference for photography without musical accompaniment, I think that’s entirely up to the artist. However he or she wants to present it is the way it should be presented (not that professional editing hurts). One can always turn it off or hit mute on the keyboard if the controls are not available in the player.
I pretty much always listen to music while editing photos and it’s not unusual for a song to come up that goes particularly well with a sequence. Occasionally I include one in a personal slideshow. I don’t see much of a problem with that. I’m not profiting off anyone’s work in any way, nor showing them to the general public like on youtube or the like. And as I mentioned before, if it bothers anyone, I’d sincerely apologize and take it down. I have no problem with people legally protecting their interests and intellectual property. It’s rare anyone goes way too far and sues Granny for having a picture on the fridge. Hosting illegal music distribution servers, yes. Using a track on a slideshow seen by a few friends, no.
In this case, the song went with my little yarn about the slideshow’s themes. I know the song isn’t about that, but it kinda works. Often photographers look at extreme poverty and/or suffering and see great beauty. I’m not making any kind of blanket criticism. I think that’s one of the great things about photography–that it gives us the ability to reveal the beautiful in scenes where we normally wouldn’t see it. Still, I can imagine so many of those subjects saying, yea bub, it’s a beautiful world for you, but not me.
About the B&W vs. color, I didn’t really mean it as a competition. Just an interesting contrast in light of ongoing conversations. What I get from it is that I can tell a difference of intent. I have quite a few photos similar to those and was surprised to find how few of them worked when converted to black and white. I like the black and whites I showed, but for most of the others, the color was too much an integral part of the composition. I suspect that’s why most people who’ve commented prefer the color. And the the black and whites in that slideshow required some fairly serious Photoshop work in the conversion. The color were pretty much as shot.
MICHAEL..PRESTON
yes, i am with Michael on this one…music is always a part of picture viewing experience for me and most often a part of the picture taking experience as well…if the music is not playing wnen i am shooting (which it often is), than i am usually either humming a song or singing to myself..when i really get in the zone, i think i really hum…..i have a few songs in my head at all times that i sing to myself…when editing or printing , the music HAS to be there..and i often compare photography to music (and other arts) and rhythm and dance play such a part in my work…
yet Preston , i agree with you that gratuitous music or just the wrong combo is annoying…it has to be right…but i do think the marriage of music and pictures can be as powerful as the relationship with the right words and pictures….i love pictures for their own sake…..great ones need nothing…but, without subtracting from the power of the single great image , i think that sometimes there can be symbiotic additions without losing anything at all…
i will tell you what is truly annoying…and that is when i get a stupid song in my head and cannot get it out….right now i got a Dean Martin “Everybody loves somebody sometime…”… thing going for no reason that i can think of…yuk…time for a shot of tequila…
cheers, david
Better Dean Martin than Green Acres … oh crap.
I just want to congratulate Harvey (and his loyal henchmen) on taking this blog from concept to featuring a major photo story by James Nachtwey, complete with corporate sponsorship for that essay, in a little more than a year. Whatever ultimately becomes of Burn, you’ve certainly gotten a lot of folks attention. Damn fine job!
Now, would someone suggest a good beginning workshop on shooting video Harvey could take so he doesn’t make a complete fool of himself on this assignment?! (Maybe call up one of your sons, David. I understand they mess around a little with video) ;)
Jim, you gotta include yourself in that congratulations as well, and I concur.
DAH, Tom,
“The Gambler” is the one that always gets me. Damn you Kenny Rogers!
did u know the fact that HARVEY removed and photographed EINSTEIN’S
BRAIN only 7 hours after Albert’s death???
DAH does not have a chin. Behind that beard is another leica.
im not kidding .. read this:
Albert Einstein’s brain
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Albert Einstein’s brain)
Einstein’s brain was preserved after his death in 1955, but this fact was not revealed until 1978.
Albert Einstein’s brain has often been a subject of research and speculation. Einstein’s brain was removed within seven hours of his death. The brain has attracted attention because of Einstein’s reputation for being one of the foremost geniuses of the 20th century, and apparent regularities or irregularities in the brain have been used to support various ideas about correlations in neuroanatomy with general or mathematical intelligence. Scientific studies have suggested that regions involved in speech and language are smaller, while regions involved with numerical and spatial processing are larger. Other studies have suggested an increased number of Glial cells in Einstein’s brain.
Einstein’s brain was removed, weighed and preserved by
Thomas Stoltz Harvey,
the pathologist who performed the autopsy on Einstein. He claimed he hoped that cytoarchitectonics would reveal useful information. [1] Harvey injected 10% formalin through the internal carotid arteries and afterwards suspended the intact brain in 10% formalin.
Harvey photographed the brain
from many angles. He then dissected it into roughly 240 blocks (each about 1 cm3) and encased the segments in a plastic-like material called collodion. Harvey also removed Einstein’s eyes, and gave them to Henry Abrams. He was fired from his position at Princeton Hospital shortly thereafter for refusing to relinquish the organs.
Scientific studies
The lateral sulcus (Sylvian fissure) in a normal brain. In Einstein’s brain, this was truncated.
Harvey noticed immediately that Einstein had no parietal operculum in either hemisphere. Photographs of the brain show an enlarged Sylvian fissure; clearly Einstein’s brain grew in an interesting way. In 1999, further analysis by a team at McMaster University in Hamilton Ontario, Canada revealed that his parietal operculum region in the inferior frontal gyrus in the frontal lobe of the brain was vacant. Also absent was part of a bordering region called the lateral sulcus (Sylvian fissure). Researchers at McMaster University speculated that the vacancy may have enabled neurons in this part of his brain to communicate better. “This unusual brain anatomy…(missing part of the Sylvian fissure)… may explain why Einstein thought the way he did,” said Professor Sandra Witelson who led the research published in The Lancet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein%E2%80%99s_brain
JIM…
laughing…and crying..of course i need video lessons…Bryan did give me a few pointers before he left for Brazil (we will work together during Carnival in Rio) and Erin has been on the phone with me for two days explaining a few things (he is coming to Rio too, but to kite board)..yea family reunion…in any case, fortunately the sound part got modified (i think the art director read Twitter), so i really do not have to worry about it..that was what was really hanging me up…i offered both sons a piece of this job, but alas they were off to higher adventures…leaving ol’ dad to fend for himself…scratching my bald head…while i do often receive admiring looks from young people, my sons give me a different kind of look..more like,”omg, how did dad EVER make it?”…i think you may see what they mean….
PANOS..
interesting….mostly fascinating is that three different things were MISSING or DEFORMED from Einsteins brain (at least according to Harvey the pathologist photographer…or , did you say pathological photographer?) ..i can understand why Harvey was fired…hanging on to Eisnsteins eyes?? if indeed, Thomas Stoltz Harvey was my great great uncle, you can begin to see the problem….
cheers, david
BRIAN..
know when to hold ’em,know when to fold ’em, know when to walk away, know when to run”…now, YOU got that one in MY head…i’m going to bed..thanks Brian..
David will you be available to talk via phone anytime this week? what time is best if you are?
DAH
sound is #1!!!!!!
good to take a day, and get it right!!!!
can’t wait to see some motion from you!!!!!
exciting times!!
***
Copyright is such a delicate issue, intellectual property rights are probably one of the biggest challenges we face going forward as the rate of innovation reaches a saturation point. Throughout history artists have ripped each other off and have created masterpieces and new genres of art. I think IP and copyright interferes with innovation and supports monopolies. Initially the idea of the patent was to foster creativity and innovation. When you throw compensation in to the mix it gets sticky, as we all expect and deserve to be compensated for our work. IMO fair use should extend to infinity as long as no money is involved. If someone is making money off of your work then it is understandably a problem. Innovate by breaking all the copyright rules and patents and then when you have something the market wants, make reasonable deals with the ideas/content/design owners afterward. This does not limit innovation and also allows compensation to those that came before. This is one of the ways the net has taken off with open source coding, shareware, LINUX, Apple apps, etc. Maybe we need to think about our own work in this context as well.
Thinking out loud here…
a friend just sent me this.. listening to it now..
¨7 days left to listen
Last broadcast yesterday, 20:00 on BBC Radio 4.
Synopsis
Episode image for Overexposed
Miles Warde presents the story of a group of photojournalists who set out to witness world events. They went to Yugoslavia, Angola, Chechnya, Gaza and Iraq. Two of them were shot dead. A compelling portrait of youthful ambition and the power of photography to change the world.¨
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00q3cm3
Frank,
mentioning open source, one should also note Richard M. Stallman. He is the inventor of the counter movement to copyrights etc. In the early 1980s he started the GNU Project, which re-creates the UNIX operating system as a free system. (Free as in Freedom). That was, because AT&T copyrighted the UNIX source code and prohibited universities to use it in lectures. Stallman invented the copyleft, which in derivations is know today as CC – Creative Commons. Without Stallman no open source and no LINUX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stallman
“IMO fair use should extend to infinity as long as no money is involved.”
Fans can dilute the commercial value of your product as easily by giving it away as by selling it. What accrues to them isn’t the point (whether they might financially gain or not by the transaction doesn’t effect you directly), it’s what is taken from you by their actions that ultimately matters (the potential sale you lost). That might have been unimportant before the Internet – you could give your friends a copy of a cassette music album, for example, but your potential distribution was extremely limited by time, money and distance, but when all you have to do is make that album available on a website for free to make it available to millions, the dynamic changes.
Just to illustrate Jim’s point with an issue I have….
I shot some products for a client, illustrating specific aspects of his product. He loaded them onto his website which is aimed at the uk market. Within a matter of days, a chinese company selling a similar product and trying to break into the UK market had swiped the pics and was using them extensively on their website. The isp was traced, take down notices issued, emails sent. But at the end of the day the chinese website owners didn’t give a flying **** about usage/exclusivity etc etc. Eventually once the Chinese company got more established they sourced their own imagery. But you can see from this example, my client lost exclusivity to his imagery and also lost some market share because the chinese had swiped the pics so early on and established a market presence. It also means my images have been used without my consent, also without remuneration,there is no financial sense in me going after the chinese company due to the protracted time it would take to persue. Basically we have all lost out except for the company that stole the imagery. This has also happened a couple of times since, all with Chinese based companies. It is a real issue.
Cheers
Ian
Most just get someone to mimic similar images, logos, layouts etc and that goes with companies throughout the world and is not a Chinese only thing, many a Western based company is doing the same thing.
Stock images look the same same but no different and are getting cheaper by the day ………………… doi knia
Imants, agreed. I have been asked to duplicate stuff and refused. I know it’s not only a Chinese thing, I just seem to have been plagued by by illicit image use from China at the moment.
Cheers
ian
Yea I never have that problem, nobody hires me anyway…….probably too scared of what they may get from me.
the copyright issue should probably be the topic for a whole new post…an issue with which i am closely involved…and yes, the dynamic does change with the net..the music industry has of course faced this even before the picture business and interesting solutions and business models have evolved…the plethora of free music and royalty free pictures would seem at first glance to be the end of both businesses…but of course this has not happened…
at Magnum we know for example that anyone can pull a reasonable 5×7 or even 8×10 print off of any picture we have in our archive or show on the net….including icons that sell for thousands of dollars for an archival print…potential picture buyers certainly can find on Flickr zillions of pictures for free or at very low cost…many, even most, photographers who are uploading to photo sharing sites have no idea that they have created intellectual property that has potential value, so they immediately de-value their work….
so, one could surmise that with so many pictures out there for free , why would anyone buy a picture? or how could picture sellers control their product?
i think all picture agencies have reported at least a 20% drop in stock library sales due to this and to a failing economy..but a 20% loss seems minimal when matched to the availability of free pictures…the failing economy could account for that loss, not the theft of or free use of pictures…just as the music industry now knows that free music is everywhere and same for the picture business, new ways of thinking about what it is that is sold is the mantra…
the Prince model of “let em have my recorded music for free, and i will charge like hell for my live concerts” has worked…i am sure any reasonable person can see that there is no way to stop the pirating of pictures….you can complain all day long, and nothing will change…the technology exists to steal in so many ways and for so many reasons…yet, the picture agencies are still here, photographers are earning a living…yes, some photographers have gone out of business…but, could that not be attributed to the fact that just as there are so many pictures, there are so many photographers?…with photography so technically “easy”, the number of people who decided they were suddenly professional photographers skyrocketed way beyond what the market could bear…some did “make it” for awhile in a booming economy, but then when they went out of business they declared “game over”…
the fight to maintain intellectual property rights, copyright, is always an ongoing battle, but so far so good….since i receive royalties every month for my past work as do all photographers with a significant archive, surely the business side of photography moves forward…at some point we have to realize that there are discerning buyers…and discerning buyers have decided clearly that even with all that is for free and all that can be stolen, they still want something special…one cannot assume that because there is lots of something, that all is created equal…this goes against human nature…as in all things, there will always be photography that is considered a cut above by these discerning media buyers or collectors..
this does not mean any of us should take our copyrights for granted…quite the contrary..but with careful monitoring and mostly by CREATING SOMETHING CONSIDERED SPECIAL IN THE FIRST PLACE, i think we will move forward with a healthy photography environment where the very best work will command an appropriate financial remuneration….
Fuck ,yes Dave! The copyright issue…I’ve allways had a ” do unto others as you would have done unto you ” attitude when it comes to sourcing music for slide shows…exchanges with artists usually work well…but the advantages of having work highlighted on the web is that you are reaching far more people than you ever could have by keeping those precious pictures under your virtual bed waiting to be discovered …get them out there, where they can be of use to you.
and if you feel your copyright is really violated ?…that’s what lawyers are for.
Art directors I know have seriously cut back on their budgets for original photography. They are arranging for less of it and hiring less experienced and expensive photographers when they do. A lot of that is due to the economy–its a particularly bad time for magazines–but I think a big part of it has to do with the move into the on-line world as well. At many, if not most, publications, on-line ad revenue has surpassed print. If not in dollars, definitely in growth. But I don’t think they’ve figured out a way to use photography to its best effect on-line. A big part of that is because initially the art directors weren’t building the websites. Layout decisions were made by programmers and management types. With Dreamweaver and Flash that’s changed, or is changing, but the ability to effectively use photos is still hindered by the linear nature of presentation on the web (and bandwidth to some extent). Hopefully, the tablet will change that. Hopefully designing for a beautiful device from Apple will bring back the visual differentiator that people will pay for. Not just on tablets, but for regular web-based stories as well.
I forgot to mention WordPress which is also open source.
my experience before i left the u.k. 2 years ago was that marketing and art directors were moonlighting with photo work which came across their desks.. that is to say that the easy enough hired-eye work was being snapped up by the first person in the commissioning chain with a dslr..
i think this was because there was time with digital to bang something out quick.. no need for the lab.. all that jazz added to the fact that generic stock photos became less valuable than dust.
4 or 5 regular clients were maintaining my business.. one food shoot a week and 4 or 5 editorial clients who took my specialized area of snapping and commissioned weekly.. and when i emigrated teaching work took over..
stock sales and royalties were always a bonus – now probably accounting for no more than a couple of thousand GBP a year.. and it´s only ever my music work that i get requests for.. the crowd and people shots much more than the artists, which never really sold and so i do not have an archive of them anywhere online.
whatever you do, find a unique angle for it.. i remember meeting ¨music¨ photographers who would spend their entire time at a festival scouting about for the rich and famous.. a life of stress for fresh snaps of them which would maybe hold value for a year or two.. and then again when the artist dies perhaps..
yet as david says – if you have a unique take and shoot it to the extreme you can depend upon an archive to provide at least some income over time.. this month, bizarrely, i´ve sold a snap or two to u.s. playboy for a feature about a country where i have photographed the youth scene extensively.. just crowd shots.. nowt seedy.. for a travel piece.. because when they look online for snaps of people at parties in that country, chances are it´s my snaps they will find.. it´s about finding what you adore to photograph and doing it to the extreme.. i´m sure glenn has one of the most thorough archives on indigenous australians… he´s the man for that.. david is teh man for spanish culture and the spanish colonized countries.. so on..
the web is a great tool – yet as glenn says you have to accept to a degree that someone will take the piss with your work.. but there are means to get that sorted.. and in the past 12 years or so i´ve only had to send cease and desist notices on a couple of occasions.. while the presence of my work online makes modest sales which make the hassle worth while.. modest sales, mind.. not survival budget level..
the other thing that a decent archive can provide is a little sanity and encouragement when times are tough, which they will be.. and are..
right now, since we moved to bergen, i´ve been pretty much screwed for money.. potential teaching work did not happen quickly.. rent is ridicules.. food.. tor capa nursery fees.. everything has gone skewed yet i know i still have an archive to market.. occasional sales go a long way..
I think we’ve all been to parties and other social gatherings where we’ve wondered why we bothered to show up at all. Maybe the host owed you a dinner, maybe your wife is making you go, maybe your employer requires you to be there in order to make an important customer happy, but no matter why you showed up, you’re here, and here is a disaster of Titanic sized proportions and you would willingly cut off your left arm for an excuse to get out of this hellhole right now. This sort of thing happens to us all on occasion; just a part of the strange lottery of life, but it’s worse when you’re the host of this ten ton stone balloon and you know everyone in the place is blaming you for that awkward and uncomfortable feeling we all get when we know the party’s heading south and we wish we were, too.
Part of your problem may be that you do not have any interesting conversation pieces in your home. A good conversation piece gets people talking, gets them comparing notes about the piece on your coffee table and others pieces they’ve seen at other houses and on that trip to Europe a few years back with your Aunt Myrtle when she went looking for the ladies room in the Louvre after getting up close and personal with Mona Lisa, took a left when she should have taken a right, and wound up on a Bulgarian army rifle range being shot at by a squad of angry nearsighted kids who couldn’t get out of the draft and were glad to take their frustrations out on someone. American relations with Bulgaria have improved considerably since that trip and will go on improving, just as long as Aunt Myrtle stays home with her cats. But with so many different people interested in so many different things the perplexed host may find themselves in a bit of a quandary about what sort of conversation piece to get since very few conversation pieces appeal to everyone.
The host in this case should remember that the one thing that always excites interest is people, especially famous people. The famous are different than you or me, F. Scott Fitzgerald once famously didn’t say, to which Ernest Hemingway didn’t reply, yes, they have better press agents. But the chances of getting an actual, real life famous person to come to your party are usually pretty poor, all told, and even if they did come, you want everyone at your party to talk about what a wonderful party this is, not about whether some celebrity shows up and sucks all the oxygen out of the room. Let’s face it, celebrities come and they go; I mean, when was the last time you heard anything about Miss America 1938 or Ilona Massey or John Nance Garner or even Norma Shearer? The trick is to get someone whose name has stood the test of time but who won’t monopolize the conversation to the point where the party suffers. Not an easy thing to do, as I’m sure you would agree, but recently two books have come out that show the inexperienced host how to do such a thing and make your parties the envy of your entire neighborhood. Everyone who is anyone on this planet has heard of Albert Einstein and any party he attends becomes an immediate success since how everyone will want to know how you got the premier genius of the 20th century to come to your party while others will want to discuss the theory of relativity and how much they don’t understand it, having flunked high school physics after having spent most of the year checking out the cheerleader sitting four desks up from them, and still others will want to discuss Einstein’s role, and possible culpability, in the development of the atomic bomb, which is what your party would have been if Albert hadn’t shown up on time.
Now we all know, and if you didn’t I’m telling you now, that Albert Einstein died in 1955, so how can you get him to come to a social gathering some fifty years too late for him to bring a loaf of bread or some raspberry Danish or maybe a nice bottle of wine; this is something my mother always goes on about. Never go to a party with one arm as long as the other, she says, but that’s probably some sort of weird Irish cultural thing. In any case, Einstein may not be able to come because of his unfortunate death fifty years ago, but that does not stop his brain from being the life of any party it goes to. Yes, indeed, as the two books I mentioned above make very clear, Einstein’s brain is still available, floating in formaldehyde in some Tupperware containers somewhere in New Jersey. Of course, you can’t actually buy Einstein’s brain; the owner is not interested in selling, and who would be, given such a treasure, but you can rent the brain, I hear, for two hundred dollars a night, half price for bar mitzvahs, and isn’t a minimal investment of two hundred dollars a small price to pay for scoring the social success of the year?
And Einstein is not the only head in the ring, not at all; there are plenty of miscellaneous body parts floating around out there to liven up even the deadest party, body parts of every size and description, body parts for every occasion. Franz Josef Haydn’s head, for example, is back with the rest of the great composer, the head finally reuniting with the rest of the body in 1954 after a century and a half apart, but for the artistically inclined Francisco de Goya’s head is still wandering the highways and the byways at this time, and for the politically minded, I think Oliver Cromwell is still headless, said head being in the possession of a family that has (or had; the situation is unclear) old Ollie’s noggin in a velvet lined box, all set and ready to transform the dullest dinner party into a tremendous success.
For those who enjoy a bit of dirt with their conversation pieces, and you know who you are, the ambitious host has a choice between Napoleon Bonaparte and Grigorii Rasputin. Napoleon was the bigger man historically; a string of battlefield successes made his name as one of the great military leaders of history, and his revision of French law, codified as the Code Napoleon, remains the basis of French civil law to this day, marking him as one of the great statesmen of the nineteenth century as well. Rasputin, on the other hand, was an unkempt pseudomonk who conned his way into Tsar Nicholas II’s household with his ability to calm Nicholas’ hemophiliac son, the crown prince Alexis, and soothe the empress Alexandra’s hysteria about her son’s condition. Unlike Napoleon, Rasputin survives in history as something of a perpetual dirty joke, something on the order of the second Clinton administration or the riper years of the Stuart Restoration. So you can imagine how a dull party can perk right up when you produce, from its very own shoebox, the reason why Rasputin was so sought out by society women during the first decade of the twentieth century, an object described by one witness as something akin to a long, blackened, overripe banana. By contrast, and there is a big contrast here indeed, when Napoleon’s came up for auction at Sotheby’s in London a few years ago the catalog described it as tiny and looking remarkably like a shriveled seahorse. Given the relative historical importance of these two men, I think it is safe to say that this is one of those instances when size really does not matter.
To maximize the effect of your conversation piece on your guests, you could try to work it into every aspect of the evening, although I’d leave Einstein’s brains off the dinner table lest someone mistake them for the cauliflower. You must remember to treat the conversation piece with respect; in all likelihood you are just borrowing it for the evening and while you obviously can’t return it to the original owner, as your piece is a scaled down version of the original owner, you should return it to the current owner in as close to original condition as you can get it without actually administering CPR, which will not be helpful at this time. This is only good manners, after all, and if you show people that they can’t trust you to be responsible with their property they will stop loaning it to you, and then you’ll wind up showing your guests slides of your trip to the Grand Canyon, and they will leave your home convinced that you are a dullard, a bore, a dolt, and maybe even psychotic as well. I mean, who is that interested in the Grand Canyon, really? It’s a ditch, a big ditch, to be sure, and a marvel of nature, but when you boil it down to its essence, a ditch is a ditch.
Copyright! Oh, that’s a good family topic. My largest expense is ‘legal’, my largest source of income is settlement agreements concerning the misuse of 2 photos. Thousands of dollars ‘in’ and a smaller thousands of dollars ‘out’. Plus the emotional drain of will I ‘win’ and the inner turmoil that comes when the other side casts doubt.
We have copyright laws that are our rights. These are surely going to change as to reflect the needs and wants of society today. As long as these rights exist and as long as is economically feasible for me, I will continue to engage lawyers and fight for my rights.
More chilling, in my opinion, is the evolution of privacy rights and ever increasing rules specific to photography. In Quebec, it is illegal to take a photgraph of a person without their prior permission. Can’t even take the picture!(Luckily there are five provisions that state when a photo without prior permission can be made.) Meanwhile in ROC (the Rest of Canada) you may take the photo of someone in the street but you may also have restrictions on how you can use it. Be very careful making photos in NY…statute 50 makes it clear model releases are required for all visible people in any advertising photo (and given DAH stated all websites are commercial, are they also advertising too?) I understand virtually all of Cartier Bresson’s street photography taken in France would be considered illegal today under France’s new privacy rules.
As the late great philospher Joe Strummer once said, ‘Know your rights, these are your rights’
And now a link to reinforce the message: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL0CCphgmZ8
Hope its legal…
Doug
as predicted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/26/technology/26apple.html?ref=business
IMO, the biggest most important news in our business for the future by far…..
DOUG..
no, websites are not considered advertising regarding photography even though considered commercial for the purposes of music rights…you can easily Google web rights and use of music, pictures, etc…a little confusing and complicated at some points..
French law changes constantly regarding photographing people on the street…Magnum, and HCB, have fought lawsuits (and won) involving some HCB pictures…the last time i shot on the street and on trains in Paris for publication (Fortune Magazine), i did get model releases for everything just to be safe…these laws do vary from country to country , with the U.S. still being among the most liberal of all regarding shooting on the street (so far)..kind of a surprise really given the litigious nature of our culture in general….
it’s gonna take me 2 days …non stop reading to go through the posts…
what part of I am dyslexic you don’t understand…(to be perceived as a joke):)))
I believe in …all of you…the power is inside you. I am gonna be free …
and there is nothing compare…to freedom…
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S where are MY ladies??? KATIEEEEEE,MYGRACIE,OURPATRICIA,EMCD,CATHY…!!!
CIVILIAN…
somehow we scared all the women away…i went back and read everything for the last few days, and it seems to me the boys were behaving themselves(more or less), so i just do not know why this has turned into an all night boys poker game…i mean, all one has to do to swing the conversation, is to just swing it….
Really? Newspapers are hoping that Apple saves them? That’s their plan?
Akaky, Truly yet another masterpiece.
But please quit Bogarting and pass it this way
The key to surviving in the newspaper game moving forward is to psychologically separate printing and delivering dead tree newspapers from what we really do which is provide information. Otherwise we will continue the equivalent of trying to peddle typewriters instead of selling computers. A lot of folks in our industry are having a tough time with that. They are so involved trying to hold on to what they have that they are going to lose everything.
Hey Civi, DAH..
can´t speak for other Burnians of the female persuasion but i know i am working..have a new website, have set up Skype on two reluctant computers, have been backing up 500G of photography, shooting, editing and also giving tons of moral support to Whitney who i know has been in contact with you about her essay.
Frankly, it would seem appropriate to see a Haiti essay on Burn sooner rather than later if such an essay presents itself and meets your quality standards. My free time, what there is of it, is spent watching CNN and reading various media outlets to track the latest developments in this country whose infrastructure, governmental functions, and loss of life has been so completely catastrophic. Haiti an d its people, to me, right now, takes precendent over other more esoteric subject matter that appears on Burn these days. The problem with the media is that it´s standard issue editorial and while informative, what i´m missing is a quality essay here from someone whose focus is more in-depth, deeper somehow, more involved at the human level and last but not least, interactive at the Burn community level.
Best
Kathleen
KATHLEEN…
why oh why would you think for a moment that we did not have something planned for Haiti on Burn??
Kathleen, really, what else is there to say about Haiti that hasn’t been said 10,000 times over the last couple of weeks?
How long do you want to wallow in pain and misery? Seriously. How does that help these people?
DAH
i have no idea what you have planned on Haiti..just saying that i have been following other media on the current situation but hunger for a powerful piece on the subject here on Burn and would like to see it sooner rather than later.
Jim
You have your reasons for not being interested in coverage of the Haiti situation. I have my reasons for being interested. I do not feel i am wallowing in their pain. I am following its recovery. There is a distinction between the two. I live in a country that is earthquake prone. At any moment this could happen to us and i have been participating in Haiti relief efforts on top of everything else i have going on. I am vitally interested in the fate of Haiti for so many reasons i can´t begin to list them.
best
kathleen
DAH
hahaha, did not mean that to sound like an ultimatum..not at all, just saying that here is where i´d like to be seeing something strong on this situation..Burn is my go-to source for photo essays and i have been having to satsify my essay lust with *sigh* Anderson Cooper and Sanjay Gupta. That´s all..just would love to see Haiti on the front page here. It would be great.
Have a great day!
kathleen
Kathleen,
I kind of always though the opposite – that Burn would show on essay on Haiti and its recovery at a later time. Right now, I’m afraid that an essay here would just be lost in constant content coming out of the news outlets. It may sound callous, but I’m sure that there are even people who had reached their saturation point with the Haiti earthquake and have “compassion fatigue.
IMHO, a well-crafted essay on the Haitian recovery released down the road after journalists have moved on to the “next big story” has a greater potential for helping the survivors who are going to need assistance with rebuilding for years to come.
Justin
I am guessing that you are a photo journalist? I am not. So i don´t speak as a Pj. I do not have compassion fatigue and i know that not all photographers are hit and run. Some are deeply immersed in relevant issues that concern Haiti. I see that there are important subtopics to this tragedy. Primary was saving lives where possible and restoring order. Next was getting medical care and food and a roof over people´s heads. Next is orphans and old people, the most vulneralbe of Haiti´s society. Next is restoring infrastructure and governmental functions. Next is rebuilding the economy and production facilities, agriculture, etc.
While i ponder these formidable stages i find myself wishing to see coverage of different aspects of the process that is deeper, more invesitgative, more reflective, more thorough, more specific, i guess. That´s why i come to Burn and that´s what i would so like to see here. I speak for no one but myself but Haiti is what concerns me most right now and Burn is the place i come to not for up-to-the-moment news coverage but for more personal, reflective coverage of the type that means so much to me.
I don´t think an essay has to follow months down the road. Of course it can, especially if a photographer is really embedded in the situation and follows it to its conclusion. But also an essay now brings to Burn readers a subtantive look inside a photographer´s focus on this tragedy, describes his/her experience in ways that single photos and mainstream news coverage can´t possibly do. I think there´s room for that now, later and even later still.
Have to go..can´t respond to more..
Best
Kathleen
KATHLEEN…
well, since Haiti has been THE subject for the last couple of weeks, we on Burn are way too late for a spot news coverage and that is not what we do here anyway…this does give us the luxury of time to be a bit prudent on what we may do..your friend Whitney does have work that we are considering among others…..Haiti is not going anywhere in terms of its importance for a long long time…while Jim is concerned “what more can we see?”, i think that only more introspective pieces or personal stories will be the best…Haiti was an important story long before the earthquake and will be significant way into the future…i am pleased that you care so much and are in a position to do something…good on you…
cheers, david
Kathleen,
Thank you for reply – you make some great points. It was a bit short-sighted of me to assume that an essay on Haiti could appear only now or later. Also, I didn’t mean to imply that all or even most journalists are opportunistic (bad choice of words on my part, my apologies if any readers took offense).
I just feel that a powerful Haiti essay would have greater impact after the daily news coverage wanes. From my own perspective as an American, it seems as though we all too easily forget the after-effects of a catastrophe if we are not reminded.
Kathleen,
…also, I’m no PJ (just a civilian with some cameras).
Take care,
Justin
AKAKY: Huh?
AKAKY IRL: Huh what?
AKAKY: I have no idea what Kurt’s talking about?
AKAKY IRL: Neither do I.
AKAKY: Well, that makes two of us then.
AKAKY IRL: Who’s Kurt?
AKAKY: I give up.
I think the sad story coming out of Haiti, and a harbinger of the future, is that rival gangs are shooting each other in turf wars over piles of concrete and rubble. I’m afraid there isn’t enough money in the world to fix that. Time will tell.
Hi David and others-
I recently saw a few posts regarding video. I’m looking to buying a video camera myself, something that is light, easy to carry, but still produces great image quality and sound. I’ve looked at the Sony HDR-FX1000 and it seems quite nice. The idea is to have something that can be used to compliment my street photography projects with video instead of still pics. If anyone could give me some ideas that would be great.
Re: Haiti. I agree that more in depth, long term stories will begin creeping out as the initial shocks (no pun intended) wear down. I photographed a wedding in Paris last summer and the priest was from Haiti, a close friend of the bride’s family. We stayed in touch and he has invited me to visit him in Port au Prince several times. Just after the earthquake I emailed him and luckily found out that he was alive, but that 10 others from his parish had died. The current atmosphere must be something comparable to Rwanda during the massacres. I am thinking about organizing a trip a year from now to explore the aftermath and rebuilding efforts. I don’t think now is the time to attempt to get intimate with a camera in Haiti. The best is to send money or go there as an aid worker.
David. I sent you an email recently accompanying my Burn project proposal. Perhaps it got buried in your inbox?
Regards.
David
Plenty of coverage of Haiti is available throughout the net good and bad and will continue to be so, sourcing this information is not difficult. Anything posted here will not make it automatically make it deeper, more invesitgative, more reflective, less bias, more informative etc than elsewhere.
In response to Mike R’s comment on “Fight Journal”
I’m not sure if it is warranted to attack the photographer because of his choice of subject matter. I didn’t find the essay to be a glorification of violence.. although I can see how one might come to that conclusion.. competitive fighting is visual, it makes for interesting photographs, and it happens to be one of the oldest forms of human sport. I don’t think Adam is to blame.
David Alan Harvey
This is why i am not here..i am getting my news about Haiti elsewhere. That’s my point. David, you will post an essay on Haiti eventually. It will be good if not great. The photographer will clearly be invested and knowledgeable in his/her subject matter. It will be introspective, probing, and give appropriate focus to some acute issue facing this country’s recovery. And still, i am willing to bet my new puppy that Jim will be the first one to comment and he will demand to know what good the essay will do the people in Haiti and heaven help the photographer if any of the photos are blurry/artsy/and/or grainy black and white. So please, use someone else’s opinion that we need to see something new on Haiti, not Jim’s.
I do not want spot news coverage. That’s what i am force-fed. It’s not what i want. Nor do i think a good essay takes weeks, months or a year to develop. Essays have been published here that clearly were the result of a photographer’s weekend (or a week tops) immersion in some culture or issue. Other essays are the result of very long term projects. There’s room here for both, as long as they’re good. Period. The reason i made my first post here was to explain why i (being a female) was not here lately. It’s not just Haiti, it’s my own work and it’s also other projects i have going on. But Haiti coverage IS one big reason. I can’t be watching CNN and reading Burn at the same time. And the more i follow this crisis in the media the more i find myself wishing for an essay on Burn.
I have been writing and encouraging Whitney in her project. Her efforts and the obstacles she is facing plus her commitment to her subject matter has only made me more keenly interested in deeper coverage of the crisis and Haiti’s recovery. I would love to see an essay on Haiti of the kind of quality and coverage that i have grown to love here. By WHOEVER and WHATEVER. I am just sick of these quick takes everywhere else. So, when/if an essay is published on Burn mine will be the second post after Jim’s but it will be the first to express deep personal appreciation.
Imants, i have been sourcing this coverage ad nauseum. Trust me. There are aspects that are touched on lightly and then they vanish. That’s the problem. And obviously an essay published here will not automatically guarantee deep, incisive coverage but i am willing to bet that if it carries DAH’s stamp of approval that it will be deeper and more informative in its way than anything else i am currently able to get my hands on. Not only that but the interactive feature of Burn makes the essay a singular participatory experience which i have come to treasure.
Best
Kathleen
Matt,
I’ve been photographing fighters for almost a year, and can say I’m not a fan of the fights. I’m a fan of the skill involved, the dedication and effort, the mental toughness to persevere even when you’re overmatched. I’m especially a fan of the characters involved. Get these guys together, and their like peacocks all strutting around. Always makes me chuckle a little on the inside.
Mike’s response is a normal one for many people, and one that I’ve even felt from time to time. Sure, you can criticize the photographer for choosing the subject matter, but that shouldn’t have any more weight than any other criticism. Personally, I commend Adam for picking a subject matter in his own back yard.
While I think these fights are stupid, it’s not the subject matter that bothered me. The essay is incomplete. It’s what makes these guys tick that would be interesting, not the fact that they take pleasure in beating each other senseless. And that would require a much broader look at their lives in and out of the cage. I can’t figure out what David saw in this. It’s like publishing only a paragraph from the middle of a novel.
“It’s what makes these guys tick that would be interesting”
——————
It’s why I’m still shooting the fights and the fighters.
Kathleen so other than Whitney or someone with David’s stamp of approval and appears on burn everything is just about mediocrity. That really shows an arrogance to all the great Journalists and PJs out there.
Anyway wish all you like someone has to produce it and that takes time.
I’m with Imants on this one. Just because something is on BURN doesn’t make it better or more important than what other photographers are doing for other outlets. Enough with the touchy feeliness. What Haiti needs more right now than another photographer doing their “project” is cash for medical care, food, etc. Save that airfare and give to Partners in Health (my choice for donating) or similar.
Have a print sale. I didn’t this time around because of a number of factors so instead have given cash instead, but during Katrina I did a limited edition of prints that if someone donated $200 to the charity of their choice and sent me the receipt they got sent a print. I helped encourage over $20,000 in donations.
That said, I’m sure the deeper stories will come. But it takes time. The bleeding needs to stop first.
I like the Charles Peterson model:)
We have all been discussing wether or not, and how, photojournalists going to disaster area’s is a moral question. Is in this most recent essay ‘fight journal’ by Adam, a clear cut example of a subject matter that warrant’s that question. Is this exploitation?
Not really. In what way are they being exploited? I would guess these guys like the limelight.
Peter — I can’t quite discern the question you are posing here.
Are you asking if the subject matter, the sport of Mixed Martial Arts, is exploitative?
Or are you asking if my work, Fight Journal, is exploitative?
Best,
Adam
The guys in the current essay being exploited? Of course not….
ASgree with the guy over the ditch ,,,,that’s twice
Hi Adam.
Its a question I’m interested in hearing others opinion about, particularly in regard to the discussion over previous few days with Haiti, and how photographers can seem like vultures in a place that is in collapse. Where people are extremely vulnerable. Do they bring more than they take?
I was thinking in terms of the media generally. So I guess this includes you as being part of the media, and yes, the question does extend to the promoters. But here in this forum its about photography so, I was thinking in terms of the media.
I was thinking about the contradictions of our society in that we have law’s and education trying its best to keep us away from violence, and here, in other respects, violence is promoted as something worthy… And how this promotion of such physical violence can influence young men as to what is regarded as being strong..
This is the lines I was thinking down..
thanks for responding Adam.
I can live with a bit of biffo
Adam,
I guess what I meant by “exploitation” is that, knowing our innate attraction to violence, there will always be a market for such things, and therefore easily exploited.
Peter,
What’s wrong with exploring something so to learn more about it? I’ve learned so much by shooting the fights. Each match is a physical chess match-you roll one way to create space or leverage, your opponent counters with a move, you decoy making a mistake and hope your opponent falls for it, etc.
There’s nothing more exploitive here, at least nothing more than a car dealer knowing our innate attraction to that new shiny model. This is not disaster tourism photography.
Adam-this is a tough subject to shoot. Constant movement, bad lighting, fighters not trusting one of their own. Stick with it. You have a fine start here.
no doubt some fighters have been exploited in the past.. just as some musicians.. some photographers.. some everyone.
if the question is whether the photographer has taken advantage then i think not.. perhaps the tv interview photograph is important to settle that point.
i don’t think it is so clear cut to wonder if a society which demands this level of violence as entertainment is exploiting the fighters.
the ali photo being dropped in early lent the angle of fighting as an escape, for me.. illustrating fighting forces beyond control.. with ali and his life it’s well documented how he evolved beyond his surroundings and used the ring as a platform for quite profound happenings, given his time and place.
the photo also serves to illustrate the more graphic mature of cage fighting, especially following the bloody introduction photo.
in the case of cage fighting – and of unlicensed fights – it could easily be argued that an audience blood lust has led the commercial peak beyond acceptable ‘sporting’ boundaries.. however, then there is the context to consider.. what looks disgusting here may not be there.. thai fighting and more.. is it the cage which is sick or the media exploitation and blood lust? perhaps that is why the media picture is there.. no dirt and grit.. just plastic and bright lights.
perhaps the youtube generation, bought up on hardcore sex and street fights, ultimately demand bare knuckle stars to satisfy?
the money has already bought ‘kimbo slice’ straight from backyard brawls into the cage and none of us has any idea if he’s being offered sound consultation.. getting his dues.
having been sprayed with blood ringside during a heavy brawl of a licensed fight, and felt sickened by the many thousands over my shoulder out of earshot of the blows.. urging for more, i’m no longer a fight fan.
BUT
as a sport it produces less injuries than football and provides an outlet and mentor-ship for some young people born without privilege.
still, i hope that the buying publics expectations of a decent match fall closer to queensbury rules than cage fighting.. as it could be a sorry reflection to have the latter hold more interest.
“the photo also serves to illustrate the more graphic mature of cage fighting, especially following the bloody introduction photo.”
i mean to say – the famous Ali photo looks tame, despite the KO, when plopped into the cage fighting set..
and i mean to say “graphic nature” not graphic matue..
3.13 am.
tor capa unwell.. doing the night shift, typing (badly) till i’m certain he’s drifted off again..
Hi Brian and david.
Excuse me for my vaguely worded question.
I was thinking more about the consequences for society, maybe young men who will see this brutality as being a marker to their manhood. Like Adam noted, these fighters paraded around like Peacocks. Posing. So is it something thats been sold to us that is not so good. Which you both pointed out.
I just wonder how that anything used to promote physical violence can be seen as anything other than exploiting our basest instincts. When I say exploit, I mean generally. Exploiting a market. A want.
thanks guys for illustrating what you see.
cheers. Peter.
hang in there david…
KATHLEEN…
your comment is clear and concise…ironically, just as i was asking with a smile where the women went, you come back with a real reason why you are not here, yet very much here with your comment…thanks…
CHARLES…IMANTS
i certainly do not claim to have a crystal ball on the right thing to do regarding publication of work from Haiti ..i agree with both of you…..mostly i feel horribly helpless…i will try to publish something relevant at some point, and we are viewing the work of some who were in early…yet mostly i am interested in the work of a 16 yr old young woman who is not a professional photographer, but simply a Haitian with a camera…talented committed photographers have made powerful pictures which have already been published elsewhere…whatever i do, i surely feel no need to publish a gratuitous Haiti picture or essay just to show that i can, or to appear oh so superficially on top of it….
no doubt whatever comes on Burn from Haiti will be viewed as either too late, too early , or too incomplete…it will surely be all three…
Haiti represents a certain chaos of the human condition that does require careful study and consideration with the earthquake only the most recent manifestation of a culture besieged by the gross inequities of colonization, corruption, poor management, environmental rape, and now natural disaster..to expect that all of this could be covered in an essay or two by anyone would be way overstating the power of any chronicler…there are many stories to be told…we may listen to several…none can represent the whole,yet all can perhaps give at least some insight…what any of us take out of it, will depend totally on our individual responses of either action or a passive awareness….viewing human suffering brings out the best in some, the worst in others….some lend a hand, others close their eyes awkwardly…either way, the images are forever in our heads and cannot be erased…please do not kill the messengers…
JIM…
i photographed cage fighting in Puerto Rico back when it was illegal here in the U.S…i met the “inventor” and promoters of early cage fighting…a sleazy bunch imo and i cannot imagine a more unattractive “sport”…just because i publish something here on Burn does not mean i endorse the subject matter from a personal point of view…i publish endeavors….i do not moralize the subject matter, but simply try to pace the flow so that we look at TB survivors and fighters one day replete with solutions and yet snap our heads in the completely opposite direction the next with a show of extreme banality…ours is not a linear world….
cheers, david
From what I’ve seen, many of these fighters are fighting for one (or more) of these reasons. They either like the competition, like the limelight and semi rock star status, or they are trying to get to the major leagues and major paydays of MMA. The fighting is a means to one of these ends.
Is watching these fights any different than watching a race, knowing (maybe hoping) that there will a crash, or the highlights of the biggest hits in football, or any other violent sport? I guess what I’m trying to say is that violent competitions exist because of our wanting to see them, not the other way around.
David, it wasn’t the subject matter I was questioning your decision about. It was the fact that the “essay” is so incomplete. Cage fighting isn’t interesting to me. What these guys do between fights, though, would say a lot about who they are and why they do what they do when they fight. That is the interesting story to me. Not what they do in the cage.
David Alan Harvey
“there are many stories to be told…we may listen to several…none can represent the whole,yet all can perhaps give at least some insight”
Exactly..
Imants, you clearly overestimate what i have available to me in the media here in Costa Rica. Telenovelas? Nightly news about the carnage on the highways, the latest home invasion, the most recent brutal murder or kidnapping? Or the locally produced comedy and variety shows? Time and Newsweek in Spanish? The aforementioned Anderson and Sanjay? hahaha, this is for you, Imants, con mucho amor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wBPpV5lm40
best
kathleen
Haiti is not a big ticket item in the media on this side of the world just as SE Asia is not in the Americas. Most info is via the wonderful world of the http://www…….
………………http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_q3y8gveU
woops ………… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_q3y8gveU
Imants
Yes, that’s true..but Burn is my go-to source for photo essays..i haven’t got a lot of time to browse the web. I know David has his finger on the pulse of what’s hot in the media and the direction of same. It’s a big reason i came here and ended up staying. Burn didn’t win the Lucie award for nothing. Many felt like i did. We came and we stayed. Is Burn perfect? Are all its essays Pulitzer prize material? No. Quality can be uneven; some essays are more successful than others. The same will be true of the Haiti stories that wind up on Burn’s ‘pages’. David doesn’t aim to merely publish perfection. He aims to stimulate thought, conversation, debate, energy. This energy has been lacking here (for me) as Burn has been conspicuous by its silence on the subject of Haiti. Which struck me as odd because it’s on everyone’s tongue all over the world. It’s this energy, the interactive nature of Burn essays that i have been missing greatly regarding this crisis. I don’t think the essays (because hopefully there will be more than one) David ends up publishing have to be necessarily the best possible photographs produced by the best possible pj’s. For example, the idea of perhaps publishing the work of a 16 year old Haitian girl who is a complete amateur is extremely exciting to me. I do know that the essays he publishes will encourage participation and incisive discussion on the part of viewers. This is what makes Burn different and this is what makes the essays here so important to me. And this is what i meant in my comments above that you saw as arrogant and Charles saw as touchy-feelie. They were neither. They were simply emphatic statements that a Burn essay is a unique experience that i hope to see involve the work being produced about Haiti sooner rather than later.
Best
Kathleen
It is not a matter of having to browse the net, set up a multitude of sources eg I have had these source for ages , I may not agree with what is said but it is information http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/ and this http://www.diena.lv/lat/politics/foto/vesture
Burn is a minute part of the world of communication
Imants
Yes, you are probably right about that..i have been lazy in the past about developing other news sources and now that i need them i don’t have them..it’s not fair to rely so much on Burn..good point. On the other hand, i support Burn and DAH/Anton’s endeavor completely. That there is a wealth of news on the web does not diminish the ability of the right essay on Haiti to stimulate powerful energy, discussion and web ripples right here on this spot, right where we’re ‘standing’. David believes this too. Otherwise he wouldn’t devote his time to Burn. So i will continue to look here first. But hey, DAH, no pressure. heh.
Pobre Chechnya :(
g’night
kathleen
David,
I’ve sent you an e-mail yesterday.( kyungheekorea@gmail.com )
Please check it up.
Many thanks. :))
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/26/haiti-earthquake-shooting-girl-story
JIM…
you are quite right…Adam’s cage essay is incomplete….please remember that most of the essays here are in fact works in progress…almost all photographed by photographers 35 and under who are in the process of developing their careers…most of the work also here is self financed by these young photographers and is apart from how they earn their living….i have spoken with Adam about the necessity for getting inside the heads of these young men….getting quotes from them would have been a good start….what is their motive? money? fame?….from his report here we know nothing of what they are thinking or where they want to go with their lives…this would indeed be more interesting than merely capturing their activities in the cage….yet for the actual action part of the essay i feel Adam is off to a good start…he will have to do more in the long run to give us “motive” besides a famous picture by Neil Leifer on the dressing room wall and a Bible on the table…these are suggestions, but not a whole…i suspect if Adam is really serious about creating a complete body of work on cage fighting, he will use his exposure on Burn wisely…he has another level to go…he knows this…my gamble with Adam is that he will move forward now for the big push….nothing would please me more than to see him spend another year on this and then perhaps show us his book or his film…if he really cares, he will..
KATHLEEN…
while we do work hard to make Burn an interesting online magazine, we certainly can make no attempt to cover the world as any kind of competition with the myriad of news gathering organizations…if something shows up here that ends up being relevant with current events, then that is coincidental with the motives of whatever young photographer submits to Burn, or who we know about and is not already committed to an established news organization…the emphasis on photojournalism here lately will soon be followed by more personal and introspective essays not relating to current events in any way…while the earthquake in Haiti really DID happen and is by all accounts an international tragedy and responsibility and Burn is planning to do our bit towards sending at least some financial aid, there are many other worthwhile subjects that warrant our attention as well…
while someone is suffering under the glare of tv lights in Haiti and we all know about it, someone else is suffering equally in Keokuk, Iowa for some other valid reason, and we have no clue…our cameras are daily trained on a wide variety of subject matter some of which is purely introspective but of no less value than the depictions by photojournalists of the horrors of Haiti…what is “important” and what is not, is a judgment by each of us personally in terms of where we put our emotions…my job here is to show what young photographers are doing today..i cannot direct those young photographers one way or the other…
i will send you a private email regarding the progress of work your friend has submitted to Burn….
cheers, david
WELCOME AVA LUNA, NEWEST BURNIAN!
The lovely Natalie Grono is now a glowing mum to a sweet little girl, Ava Luna; born January 24th. Mum, dad & baby all healthy and blissfully happy.
The world still turns. What not to love! KP feeling BIG LOVE today!
DAVID BACHER…
i will be using tomorrow the Sony HD camera you mentioned for an all day video session with the family i am shooting for Common Sense Media…i have been back and forth thinking about a wide variety of solutions and have decided this the best way to go..i will let you know how it works out from a practical standpoint….
KERRY…
we all NEEDED Ava Luna right about now…please send our heartfelt congratulations to Natalie..i do not have her email….i have never seen a pregnant woman work so hard in my life…i think she was 6 months pregnant when we had her running all over New York…
warm hugs, david
Common Sense?
Rapper from chicago?
I see Apple will unveil the I tablet today. DAH do you have something up your sleeve?
KURT…
i put a link here yesterday from the NYT saying Apple would announce the tablet today…this will of course revolutionize everything….everyone will have to figure out how they will play this game….i think the big media companies are moving just as fast as they can to make sure they have a place..BUT, i also see this as an incredible opportunity for smaller production houses to build content in a variety of ways and i think they can do it faster and just as well or better than the big boys……this tablet will definitely level the playing field…nothing up my sleeve, but i am paying attention
I’m not sure about Apple’s tablet. It’s going to be too expensive initially to become mainstream, and still won’t replace a laptop or netbook for many things (any extensive typing will be a bear). Apple has tried this before, as we all know.
I agree with Jim – I’m not so sure about the hardware, unless the price is heavily subsidized by wireless carriers (as with the iPhone).
I think that it’s going to be more about the “iTunes for magazines” distribution model.
David
So right. The earth may burp under Haiti but the planet still turns on its axis. Worthy issues and events and themes and topics are being explored and developed by photographers all over the world. Burn is not Time. It’s not BBC. Those media outlets are committed to news coverage and they must be relevant and they must turn on a dime and “get the widow on the air”. Burn could completely ignore the crisis in Haiti (though that is unlikely) and still be true to its raison d’être. That won’t stop me from eagerly anticipating the day a Haiti essay is published here.
While i appreciate your gesture to update me on the progress of Whitney’s essay, I think that you know enough about me to realize that my ideals, opinions and comments here do not mask hidden agendas. I don’t push my own work, much less that of my friends. I may support and encourage Whitney but my interest in seeing an essay on Haiti is one born of my own focus on the coverage of this disaster and the recovery of Haiti and its people and also that this is the topic most photographers i know and talk to are thinking about right now. I hope Whitney is successful in her endeavors and think it would be wonderful and exciting if you decide to publish her work here but her work and my own interests are independent of each other.
Thanks for reminding me that Burn is a photography magazine, not a news magazine. I am sure when the time is right you will bring us an essay on Haiti that will knock people’s socks off. Or at least mine. In the meantime, i await the intriguing essays you are hinting at to follow here on Burn.
Best, and thank you for your many considered and articulate responses to my comments
Kathleen
And David, lest anyone think i am beatng a dead Haitian horse (moi?), it’s not necessary for you to respond, i just wanted to thank you for taking the urgency out of this issue for me and reminding me that life and photography projects do go on, notwithstanding the world’s calamities which also, alas, go on as well. And i’m not implying that you are uncaring..not at all..you just helped me re-focus my expectations of Burn’s reality, philosophy and direction. Burn is not going to jump on every disaster that rolls across the news ticker at the bottom of our tv screen. And rightly so. How boring would that be? eeks.
Thanks again and have a great day!
Kathleen
You know, we haven’t seen any Crewdson wannabes here in some time! ;)
JUSTIN….JIM
well, i think the price of the hardware will come down very quickly as with all electronics…i now pay 25 bucks for a CF card that used to cost me 300…i guess the initial price will be around $700. but once the tablet gets down under $200. then you will see fast sales and the price will come down even more…we are talking about a very portable piece of hardware that will hold everything you can imagine…at some point , it will almost replace your laptop for most practical purposes…and if this one does not work, then another one will..i just cannot see how the tablet concept can go wrong…of course it will be about the iTunes distribution model….it is the MOST natural evolution for online content viewing and information…no, i do not own Apple stock..wish i did…
Crewdson wannabees on the way…
cheers, david
and I say we should be thankful for that jim.
…see i knew even as I was typing that that it was gonna turn round and bite me on the ass.
I think with the tablet its not so much about the hardware as who has access to the software.
john
As someone who’s been paying the Apple Tax for many, many years, I’d say it’s unlikely the price will come down considerably any time soon, if ever. Typically, new versions are more powerful and have new features, but the price stays the same.
So David, you were at a NatGeo meeting and didn’t learn anything about their plans for the tablet? Now that’s a magazine the thing (one assumes considering it’s still vaporware for another hour or so) was made for. Note, I understand if you know and can’t say.
Regarding price, if it’s incredibly useful, people will buy it. All the Jims of the world though no one would pay $400 for a music player that’s really only a hard drive or $500 for a phone when the phone companies were giving them away either. Utility wins out. At least if something is as beautiful and easy to use as it is useful.
iPad tablet is real…
EVA:
:((((
kathleen
AVA LUNA…WELCOME and We Love you.
mama and papa …be ready to get BURNed(good thing)
oups…AVA…I have to find you a philosopher’s name…
KERRY …I LOVE YOU AUSSIE…and THANK YOU for everything!!!
BURNIANS,Shall I say …I LOVE YOU ALLLLLL…
I am extremely busy…working double shifts…Red Cross in Greece is trying hard …
BUT …people here and around the Universe are going through their own Haiti …
BUT …as long as there is life …there is hope and there is …partyyyyyyyyy!!!
P.S KATIEEEEE…you rock…my Street fighter…(the book)
MR.DAVID ALAN HARVEY,
Thank you …and We wish the best to HARVEY junior…he is in Rio …somewhere…
tell him…we are sending good energy…
and Call mama and say Hi…!!!
P.S I know …you busy…no need to reply BUT …the BURNIAN ladies are Here and There…
hihihiihi… wine on you…
Kathleen, yes..
Don’t know if you know this:
http://www.cineinstitute.com/news/
.. those waiting for the tablets, seems they’ll be $ 499.. and more!
Damn iPad has no Flash.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/apples-ipad-keeping-adobe-flash-away-from-your-couch/
i’m sorry, but that ipad looks rubbish. i’ve bought into apple over the last 7 years, but this just doesn’t look practical in any way, shape or form for me.
ipad still in ilemon stages “no multitasking
no camera. None, nada. Zip. No video conferencing here folks. Hell, it doesn’t have an SMS app!
It’s running iPhone OS 3.2.
The keyboard is good, not great. Not quite as responsive as it looked in the demos.”
Just pay and read hardware
The best part maybe the people in Haiti,Rawanda, Chechnya etc will be able to do this “If you tap on the App Store icon”…….
Come on, Apple. Just more eye candy. I think Jobs is channeling the Newton here.
………….the best part PJs will be able to make multi media pieces about the have nots for the haves and the haves will have to pay while the have nots will not have a clue.
I’m still buying a netbook. We got my daughter an Acer Aspire for Christmas for USD $279: webcam, real keyboard, (a surprisingly usable) 10.1 inch screen, 160 hard drive, and the ability to run a full-blown OS.
I can’t see this offering serious competition to netbooks unless the price comes down. Then, there’s the rumored Asus tablet coming out (albeit with a reportedly smaller screen that the iPad).
Asus tablet coming out ……the proposed tablets is already crowded
http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=tablets+pc&lr=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=QqpgS9aKLIzk7AP_sbC3DA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7&ved=0CDIQsAQwBg
Why do we need a tablet – apple or not?
Why do we need a tablet – apple or not? ………..”Wanna buy some mandies, Bob?” – Frank Zappa, “Flakes”
Haik I don’t know maybe magnum.NatGeo etc have decided to start with the ipad then expand to the others……..
it is a distribution device for new magazines and books.
it attacks the kindle
and will be a large success – not only for apple, but also for those generating content.
remember the sports illustrated demo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntyXvLnxyXk
This is a re-animation to the dying print industry. – And hopefully to all, delivering content, too.
Don’t only think consumer…
Don’t only think consumer………..no consumer no tablet
Imants,
I am sure in 60 days the queues of consumers will be large in front of the apple stores.
maybe someone should start writing a burn app.
..nah just write what are the poor people doing apps, consumers will love that
Expensive toy that will make Apple a bundle. I understand Farmville is killer on it.
Doesn’t support flash. So much for Burn essays.
this is why it makes sense to have a burn app.
No flash support is a bummer how may apps are you willing to buy….hp etc will probably work a deal with adobe
Bob Black
Thanks for your comments on Adams essay. You have a great way with words, and always bring new insights.
I think there is not so much a negative reaction to Adams work, but to the subject matter. Adams photographs are amazing, and I don’t at all mind the edit. Given Adams intentions, I feel he has accomplished what he intended.
When I flip channels on TV and run accross this “sport”, I find it absolutely revolting. I also find it revolting that people want to watch this stuff. Yah I know it has always been around, not to mention dog-fighting, cock fighting, etc etc. It is just cranked up a notch now. Roman style gladiator arenas soon with wild animals and fights to the death can’t be too far away. Or maybe it’s time to bring back public executions.
I’m trying to make myself believe that there is hope for humanity, and that global enlightenment is growing. Can we please have an uplifting essay soon?
THOMAS
we are working on a Burn app
DAVID:
sorry i left a 2nd comment under Adam’s essay after i saw your question (i didnt realize at first it was 1-comment, as i was thinking it was same as Jim’s essay)…anyway, just a brief note of clarification: hope it makes sense. I had seen more (much) photographs from this series, some from 25 pics up to like 50-60 pics…as Adam has worked this story: in fact, as you know, he’s been working it for a while and has lots of great stuff outside the ring too, lots of great quiet, abstract pictures which also dont even seem like ‘boxing’ subject. Anyway, i did not mean at all to imply that what I had seen was better or ‘wider’ edit. Adam ran the edit at Burn that he wanted to show, no doubt and I liked it alot. That is why i showed the readers/audience John Vink’s latest boxing essay: it takes a very specific point (behind the scenes prior to the boxing match) and highlights that and it is beautiful and successful. I think Adam’s essay (as i saw the pictures) at burn is kind of like the ‘isolation’ the ‘silence’ of the match itself (all those pics of the match reinforce that), the ‘sadness’ of the sport, not as much about the lives of the men. That’s why i really enjoyed it. I just wanted to off the negative critiques insight that the project is longer and adam is continuing to develop it and that if people wanted to see more of the lives of the boxers (what motivates/makes them tick), that is totally fine and adam has that too, but this essay was (to me) a specific idea, say a ‘movement’ within a the project’s larger ‘symphony’….but please know that in NO way was i implying that somehow the Burn edit was less strong, less appealing….i totally get that, and hope and trust you did not think/interpret my comment has anything negative about the edit as shown here…it stands on its own two feet fine, in my estimation :))))….a larger edit, will just fill out more of that world and that’s great too :)))
Gordon :)))…i used to joke with David and Anton that my real role at burn was cheerleader!….and that’s sort of the way i am in real life…for me, i just feel the necessity of trying to offer insight or positive takes on the work shown here…not that work shown at burn can’t/shouldn’t be criticized, hell it can. I’ve also talked with Adam (and many many others in emails or in person) about pros/cons of work, but i always see what excites me in work, what challenges me…i’ve stuffed my life with photography and yet i aint jaded yet….good, reasonable criticism is essential too, i give that alot too, mostly inprivate with colleagues, friends, students, spouses, etc ;)))…but since lots of photographers already get alot of critical feedback here, i just think it makes sense if i offer what i like or what works….what matters for a photographer is 1) how they can be critical of themselves (this is infinitely more important that what others say to you/of your work, both good and bad and 2) NOT take other’s criticism (good or bad) too personally…..i remember your comment about dust on my pics of Bones (even though for those few frames, that was intended, including swimping some of the negs with a dirty shirt i wore in NC), a reasonable and legit critique and yet that had been my intention, so i think it is so important that readers and viewers of photographs read not what they want/expect but attempt to try and understand why the photographer has made the choices they have :)))))…..
anyway, working on a major major deadline for new photo/writing essay that i’ll share with everyone when finished, so my comments over the last month and for the next 2 months will be, well, on the fly…maybe not so poetic :)))))…
hope we meet when marina and i next get to quebec :))))
hugs
running
bob
Personally, I have no desire to own an IPad, though given my experience with the (work-provided) IPhone, I trust I wouldn’t min having one. No, it is clearly a device for consumers, not producers. And as a producer, I hope that many, many consumers purchase them and develop strong hankerin’s for visual content. I got a slideshow or two I wouldn’t mind parting with, so to speak, if the price were right.
I’ve been thinking about taking a look at the SDK, but have proven myself a poor programmer on more than one occasion? Anyone know how difficult it is? Can one just grab blocks of code and tweak them or do you actually have to write from scratch?
Groan, yet more crap (re: iPad) being foisted upon this already A.D.D. world. Don’t get me wrong, I think the iPhone is what cell phones were always promised to be, and no way could I get by without my 8-core Mac Pro. But in the end I would rather travel with that dog eared paperback I can leave behind.
No doubt I’ll end up owning an iPad 2.0 or 3.0 but I just can’t get excited about yet another digital “innovation” at this point. (Now my new M9 is another thing, wink wink :)).
Bob B.
…You wrote
“.what matters for a photographer is 1) how they can be critical of themselves (this is infinitely more important that what others say to you/of your work, both good and bad and 2) NOT take other’s criticism (good or bad) too personally”
Good advice, though very tough to put into practice, for me at least.
Until now I have never shared my personal work with anyone. I decided to put up the galleries of personal work when I began to post here, feeling that if I was bold enough to offer opinions, people deserved to know where I was coming from. This has been a double edged sword. I has inspired me to do more personal work, and to take it more seriously. However I’m forever second guessing myself, and worry how it will be percieved. This inevitably changes how I shoot, and what I post, and what I don’t post. Slowly, I am learning to identify what my vision is, and to have faith in it. It has been a useful process.
Would love to meet up sometime, however I’ve never been to Quebec, I live in the small town of Parksville, which is about half way down Vancouver Island on the inside coast. Spare bedroom available to all.
GORDON..
i would concur with Bob…you should be the only judge of your work..based on honest self evaluation of course…if you start taking in too many outside opinions as your own belief, you will never again be yourself…
CHARLES…
won’t the iPad in its most likely evolved form make us have less to carry around rather than more? i do not see it as additional item, but rather a replacement item
Gordon :))))….damn, for some reason i thought you lived in Quebec??…well, west coast trip in 2011….see if we can meet then…..i miss the pacific and have promised my wife and son a trip out west: to california (where i lived) and up the coast…:)))))….
Charles:….”)))…still trying to digest myself….then again, i’ve spent the last 2 weeks reading all of Tolstoy’s late Religious Writings/Essays from ‘Confession’ onward….so, who knows…one think for sure, it is part of the ongoing, mobile delivery of media, the problem for me is (and i am and have always been a Apple guy from high school) why why why why is it always about Corporate culture….apple, visionary as it is, is still a company and then means profit and that means dominance….anyway, im not juiced by toys anymore, just another evolution….it all seems like farenheight 451….but, as a photographer/writer, i recognize it’s essential inevitability….
i’ve got still lots of reservations…
as i wrote at Lightstalkers, people should also read this book: you are not a gadget:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/books/15book.html..
ok, gotta finish scanning and then do some old fashion housework: clean the bathroom
hugs
b
ny times link
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/books/15book.html
EVA
Hoping this post reaches you over the din..thanks from the bottom of my heart for that link. The Ciné Institute, the only film school in Haiti, has been and continues to do amazing work covering the human side of this disasater from the Haitian perspective and early recovery efforts. The stories on this blog were so moving. The videos put me right there through the eyes of the locals instead of CNN. I admire the work these students are doing, both the multi-media photo essays and also the short videos which even have English sub-titles. Don´t know how you found this site but can only thank you for sharing it with me. For those who missed Eva´s post in the midst of the excitement over Apple´s product release of their new tablet, (Inmants, you post about the have´s and have not´s and the have´s with no clue, was right on) this blog is a must see:
http://www.cineinstitute.com/news/
Also, a piece on the Sundance Film Festival Blog about the Ciné Institute:
http://www.sundancechannel.com/sunfiltered/2010/01/how-you-can-help-in-haiti/
Many thanks!
Kathleen
David spend your money on one of these http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbookpro This baby has the lot so whack on PlayStation CS4 for photographers or lightroom, a full version of whatever to use raw files not pissy jpegs and off you go.
The ipad is for the wannabes,the passive I will follow, look and read …………..this will let you dump the m9, send out a posse of young photographers to beat the streets for you and download the images onto YOUR computer in the local enjoying a nice cold ale. Link into the local surveillance camera system for those hard to get shots……….. man you will buuuurrrrn.
http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=creative_photo_editing
David Alan
Honest self evaluation is hard to come by.
It would also take a huge ego not to care what others think of our work. Most of the huge ego photographers I’ve met typically do very mediocre work, or are one trick ponies. But they are absolutely convinced of their own genius.
I’m struggling with this. I often feel I did my best work when I was in my twenties. I remmember the energy, and being in the “zone”.
Most artists do their best work in their 20’s or 30’s. (Yes, I know the exceptions, blah, blah, blah). Time, responsibility, disillusionment and a gradual loss of youthful energy take a toil on artistic accomplishment much younger than many expect.
Hi BOB.
I’ve always found any response from you as an inspiring experience. Always seeing a positively constructive point of view. Sometimes I struggle to see what your actually say though only because my visual experience is not as articulated as yours. So its always a learning experience for me. And even though I did not appreciate Adams “fight journal” essay as you did, and still I feel the same about it, which is related to subject matter rather than style, I found your observations on Adam’s edit truly illuminating and something I have noticed in music; a note or a chord is determined, as far as its harmony and punctuation, by the chord or note that preceeds it.
Your more than a cheer leader, not that there is anything wrong with that, as we all need a positive point of view to help drive us on, but more like being given a mini tutorial on this wonderful subject of photographic symbolism in your idiosyncratic way of seeing. Which I for one, much appreciate..
Thanks BOB.
Cheers, Peter.
Jim; What about if you take it up in your 40’s; like me??? :-)
Ross, I took it up about five years ago, when I was 32, but I never really had youthful energy to begin with.
Ross
Rather than age perhaps it is the “beginners eye”, seeing the many possibilities, willingness to try anything, and the absence of a well worn rut. Maybe I need to take up meditation.
I’m gonna think on this one overhight.
Gorden…I think you have a really good point there..
gorden, bob, peter, jim
i think jim is right although probably because most peoples fascination with photography begins in the early 20´s.. going by classes average age that is..
then many – most – loose interest and the work from 20´s to 30´s becomes all they really have done.
i wonder if the exceptions are those that keep at it for longer, for whatever reason.
also – i don´t think it is a matter of ego to be ones own judge – i think it´s a matter of focus..
on the first few instances of exhibition or publication it is difficult to not listen to what others say, yet over time it becomes less important compared to what you are doing with the work.. if you are satisfied in yourself that you are doing your best work, working as hard as you can towards your own goal and more importantly photographing as much as you need to, then opinions remain on the outside..
surely an egoist would need the platitudes and praise, a la flickr, which the grafter can live without?
no self proclaimed genius here – just happy to have photographed and continue to photograph as i choose.. like the work or hate the work, that´s never going to change.
actually – is there real genius in the art world? i´ve always thought of that title as being reserved for the people who advance science, medicine and a better understanding of our world.. artists just bounce around off of the worlds inspiration like partially free radicals.
It seems hard to get around that “10,000 hours” or “10,000 photos” thing in becoming successful at anything. The younger, stronger, more obsessed you are when you start, the better, it seems. Talent is a given, but it’s worthless without doggedly hard work and single-mindedness. More difficult to achieve as responsibilities increase and energy flags as you get older. TANSTAAFL
what does tanstaafl mean?
definitely go with the stronger and more obsessed you are, and that doggedly hard work and single mindedness are key within photography, yet not youth jim.. i think anyone of any age has the potential to produce the best work of their lives..
i´m hoping that my best work is still around the corner – i cannot agree with you without letting go of that hope..
:ø)
I think the level of work you produce is related more to the amount of passion you bring to it than the age you are when you make it.
Kathleen:
I found the Ciné Institute some months ago, when reading a post on Lightstalkers, Andy Levin was asking for cameras to bring there to work with the kids during his workshops..
You also might have a look here:
http://www.zanmilakay.org/Index.htm
If you click a bit around, on photography and there on the gallery links, there’s some work made by Haitian street children..
David Bowen
TANSTAAFL = “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.”
Ross, “best” is a comparative, rather than an absolute term.
“Most artists do their best work in their 20’s or 30’s.”–jim
oh my goodness….u have to be kidding me Jim…..try 40’s or 50’s….want names?….
there are/were great artists who kicked major ass in their 20’s/30’s…and their were some funkmasters who kept kicking it in their late 60’s/70’s, but at some point it is totally arbitrary about ‘greatness’ with relationship to age….please tell me what is greatness??….one think for certain, when u r younger, generally, u have more energy, more illusions, more screw-this-shit-i-dont-care-but-for-my-vision, less responsibility, sometimes more ‘hunger’ to make a tune alight, less insight in living…..but age too brings things, particularly tools, that rarely does a younger artist possess: patience, perspective, sorrow, the taste and experience of death, etc….
mozart was a prodigy and died young, as was lermontov but Bolano didnt write a novel until he was 40 and Joyce re-wrote the english language in his 40’s, beuys came to art relatively late in life and Richard Serra’s sculptures are more extraordinary than those in his 20’s, diebenkorn painted ocean park in his 40’s and 50’s, and the greatest storytellers in n.africa are old men…..
if we celebrate only youth as the creative, glorious age and middle age as the responsible mature age and our waning years as the time of wisdom we shall still never get shit right but our illusions…..
gladwell’s magical 10,000 hrs/things is a cute memorial gladwellian idea, but it aint necessarily true but in one aspect: the more one applies themselves to a task, generally, the more that task becomes a part of themselves……
one thing is for sure, the world tends to celebrate Youth infinitely more than middle-age/old age….our unfortunate attempts to deny our transformations and our aversions to death…..
fortunately, long long long after we’re all gone, the age of who and when something was created will mean less, simply, then the meaning of that work….
and Lao Tzu was……..
Peter :))))))….just making it fun :))))
cheers
bob
Bob, that’s very democratic of you.
¨TANSTAAFL = “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.”
AFATKTDTGF !
(apart from at the krishna tent during the glastonbury festival)
Granting that there are plenty of exceptions to any statement about when people of just about any profession create their best work, for most arts and particularly photography I think age and experience, not just technical but more importantly intellectual and emotional, are great advantages. Sure, if you’re talking about chasing wars and disasters all over the world, it no doubt helps to be young and impressionable. But to bring real intellectual and emotional depth to one’s work more often than not requires actually having the intellectual and emotional depth that can comes with experience, at least to some and particularly to those who seek it.
And if you’re old and creaky, start putting good things in your body in small quantities and get out and be active. And have some fun. If you need inspiration regarding energy and mature work, look at David for chrissakes.
Jim ;))…
i’m not sure that’s so democratic…as my son reminds me in nearly every argument we have, ‘life aint fair’…and one thing is true, neither of us are getting any younger…just think for a moment about photography: lots of brilliant shit by brilliant photographers made when they were young and ringing, no doubt no doubt…then you scan scan the horizon for the work of Aaron Siskind (made his greatest work after he was past 30) or Giacomelli or Steigleitz or take Frank…for me his ‘greatest’ work came long after he’d kissed goodbye to those golden years of 20-30….u familiar with Story? or his late films?…or the all the work he did after his 2 children had died?….
think is, right, somethings work better for sure when u r young, i am certain we both know that first hand ;)))…and one thing is true, rarely can someone make a good picture after 10 tries, or write a good book the first year as an adult or make a painting or get a grove on the dance floor, surely it aint gonna happen (then again, thing of all the miraculous stuff produced by children), but my anti-10,000 pitch aint at all about democracy (i’ve spent who knows how many hours writing and reading and making pictures, it’s a scary thought), but about the idea, pitched by gladwell, that success, greatness, outliers and tippers, can be achieved if only but the effort is put in…that just aint the case…just as, did you watch it, Apple’s videos on their site, to both promote the Ipad and the Jobs presentation (my son sat down last night and watched the entire 1hr27 of it) seemed so hilariously and superficial and like highschool marketing class that we both were stunned this came from Apple, or not stunned….we like to think that certain verities are in fact true, when most of the time it’s just a nice, sweet comfort: democracy is superior, great art comes from hard work, youth is better or mispent, age is sickening or wise, etc etc etc….
there is only one democratic truth and that as both Morrison and Sangte remind, noone gets out of here alive….and that casting of our vote, at least for me, shapes all else….
the funny thing is that you sure are young in your convictions :)))))…youth are much more stubborn, or at least teens are, then old men and women…i suspect you’re really a west texas teen, and i’m the real geezer ;))))
running
b
To use a personal example, I wouldn’t have been able to see this composition when I was twenty. Seeing that required quite a bit of education and life experience. Granted though, I saw things when I was twenty that are invisible to me now. Unfortunately, I didn’t know how to photograph them back then. Point is, I guess, any blanket statement about when artists produce their best work is inherently inaccurate.
If life were fair, wisdom and age would be inversely proportional. :)
I agree that spending 10,000 hours at anything isn’t going to guarantee success at it. There has to be spark there to begin with. I know because I’ve spent much more time than that with the guitar and I still suck. But given that spark, the earlier in life you start doing the time, the more of the advantages of relative youth allow you to create unencumbered by the realities of getting older.
My bride of 32 years reminds me when I take my Corvette to Show & Shines that the look on the young guys faces at the old guy with the car is more amusement than envy. ;)
jim :)
you have a wise wife indeed….:)
fortunately, i’ve been blessed too with a wise wife and a beautifully stubborn son :)
running
b
p.s. my dad who had a ’63 vet still laments the day my mom made him sell it: that’d be the day after i was born ‘u r a father now’ my mom told him ;)))
The Dude does not abide.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8484116.stm
david b – AFATKTDTGF – laughing, was thinking the same…I was a just barely 18 year old new to NYC, and one moment of a lost look on my face meant an offer of free lunch :) the dal sure was tasty
RE: the iPad — lots of naysayers around here. Why wouldn’t we all applaud a device that provides another content platform, one more outlet for our photos? How long until we are trying to figure out how much to charge an NGO to use our photos as part of an iPad app? Or until licensing language includes print, web, and iPad? Or until in addition to websites, blogs, and twitter (free), photographers decide to build their own iPad apps, which become (gasp) paid content subscription platforms? Embrace the disruption — the old stuff wasn’t working.
I’m with Preston. Anything that pushes demand for quality visual content is a good thing. A very good thing.
Note too, that anyone with Flash 5 will be able to create their own Ipad/iphone apps and upload them to the app store.
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/
nobody in my family ever mentions age…even my 90 yr old mother has never talked about feeling “old”…i always think i am getting ready to do my very best work..right now i am so so fired up about Rio…i seriously imagine this will be IT…now, whether or not this ends up being true, i do not know, nor will i be the judge..time will….but, i do BELIEVE it to be true…i do know this…i hit a slump in my late thirties, maybe into early forties…still pro work , but nothing special…kicked it in hard again early fifties…right now i cannot imagine feeling any better about the overall flow and energy…this of course could be an illusion…i could have myself totally faked out…but, if feeling good about it and believing it have anything to do with it at all, then i am ready ready ready to roll…i will add this…i see Rio as a continuation obviously of where i was with Div Soul, yet a whole different manifestation and its own book,exhibit, film etc…
i also see Rio as my last magazine “foreign assignment”…a truly great closing chapter on international magazine assignment photography…this is my personal wish…not and end of anything, but a launch into other arenas….my attentions after Rio will be different…not stopping shooting of course …but i do have to finish my American Family project (at least a year more of shooting and my most important work of all)…plus, i do have to finish my hand made book project (at least 6 months in the darkroom)… i do have another very personal and yet official magazine assignment also down here where i live on the Carolina shore, but that will be different and a sentimental touchstone…in other words after Rio , i want to simply concentrate on prints, exhibitions and books …Rio is the very best combo of official assignment and blending with my lifetime of photographing the Iberian diaspora…so i will relish in it….
and ahhh yes, there is Burn….my place to pass the torch…..perhaps the biggest assignment of all…time will tell…but all all is good…and i would wish that anyone who is “young” now, would feel this way when they are my age….the ultimate gift….
cheers, david
Age isn’t a fact, age is a state of mind..
~ how old would you be, if you did not know how old you are?
Last week I shared a gondola to the top of the mountain with a sight-seeing couple in their 50’s. When I asked if they skied they laughed and said, ‘we’d like to, but we’re too old”.
Last month I shared a ski lift & a couple of runs with a man who just turned 84. He took up skiing at 62 and kicked my ass all the way down the mountain.
One of my all-time favorite people to flirt with is John Morris, aged 92 and still on fire.
Yessir, age is a number; youth, a state of mind.
“Youth is a wonderful thing. What a crime to waste it on children.” ~ George Bernard Shaw ;)
eva, while a nice thought, age is definitely a fact. Good genes help, of course. But you can’t beat the effects of aging.
Jim, but you can work around them.. it’s in the mind and heart.. passion has no limits, and that’s all what is needed.. and I’m way too old to agree with you, even if you were right ;)
DAH
apologies to pick up on the negative – what do you think aided the slump in your late 30´s early 40´s ?
RE iPAD:
Preston, I get your point. But as the device now stands, I can’t even view my own website, let alone the content on BURN. So without flash, I don’t see the point of this oversize iPhone (minus the phone and camera part).
RE AGE:
I did my best work (so far) in my 20’s and 30’s yet now in my 40’s I consider myself a much better photographer. I see things now that I totally missed when I was young and in the thick of things. What is important now I wish somebody had of pointed out to me then. Make any sense? Of course at the moment I’m committed to a new family and home, work is very dry, and so the maturity I now have in my vision is unfortunately laying dormant. I hope to change that but it’s a bit frustrating not having the freedom and energy I once did. But it’s also nice to know that when I do photograph I more often than not now come home with the goods because I’m able to see the subject(s) much more openly than I once did.
KATHLEEN:
I’m glad you found those videos. A friend of mine who splits her time between Seattle and Haiti her husband was trapped in a building in Jacmel where the film institute is based (he’s fine). I’ve been looking at these from about day 2. Moving stuff.
I had the opportunity to shoot in Haiti a couple of years ago but it was canceled because of the food riots (if it isn’t one thing it’s…). We went to the DR instead and shot some Haitian refugee camps/schools etc. Amazing people and I hope to make it to Haiti in a few years time, maybe to help my friend with here with her foundation: http://www.sustainablehaiti.org/
Sorry I was maybe a bit harsh, but that’s just me. I liked your eloquent reply.
Best to all,
CP
Last weekend I travelled to Edmonton for my moms 80th birthday. Yes, I have good genes.
http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/moms_80th_birthday&page=all
RE AGE:
In case of J.D. Salinger, we will never know if catcher in… was his only best work, because he just past away. I just hope he left unpublished work. How can one forget his inmense influence.
Jorge
About age
Somehow I am in between. This year I will turn 40 and that is neither really old nor is it really young. Inevitably I have been contemplating the effects of age these days. Since I cannot turn the clock forward nor backwards I have to stick with what is the present.
Years ago when I was in my mid twenties, one of my friends who was in his early 30ies said: I could die right now and I would think it be okay. I have lived a full life and have experienced so much, no regrets.
This sounded like a pretty drastic statement to me, because I hungered for life, experiences and adventures and all that. Today I understand him much better.
With age I feel you collect many experiences and of course many memories. Maybe it is true that this thirst for life gets satisfied over the years and we become more relaxed and feel less rushed to do the next big thing. Yes, maybe the best artwork is done when you are young, mad and foolish and naive.
For myself I decided to work until the day I die or in other words I want to be active and take part until the game is over. Retirement with sitting passively in a chair and waiting for the final hour to come is not my idea. Plus I feel photography is a passion for life and not a job that you do until the retirement age comes. No, as a photographer you roll until you cannot press the button anymore. The best image is always ahead of you.
Henri Cartier-Bresson gave up his professional photography in 1972 when he was around 64 years old, but at that time he had reached everything one can desire in terms of photography.
So I very much admire David’s attitude to keep working and at the same time having in mind to pass on the knowledge and wisdom that he has gathered over the years. This is certainly something young photographers are missing.
Let me tell you the story of my friend Joe the old backpacker.
We met in Beijing in 2004. I was waiting for my laundry to finish and so I sat in the TV room of the hostel. Among the usual suspects that you can meet in such a location was a man with a big, long white beard, who was telling stories from his adventures in Laos, Cambodia and who knows where. Everyone was thrilled to listen to his stories because they were first hand news and nothing like the boring lonely planet everyday monkey business standard tourist stories.
At the time I was doing a story on Chinese pensioners who were learning English in order to prepare themselves to welcome all the westeners who were expected for the olympic games. The next day I asked Joe if he would come with me and join me and the volunteers who were eager to practise English. For Joe this was an ideal opportunity to meet locals and of course tell his stories to a curious audience. I admit Joe had one handicap, his eyes were getting weaker and weaker so he needed someone to show him around and walking for long hours was not his thing anymore. So whenever there was a chance Joe joined me on my exploring trips into the unknown side streets of Beijing. Of course I had to slow down, but he was nice company and I enjoyed to have him around. Many times he became the main attraction because he was a tall man and his long white beared was something very unusual in China. The Chinese liked to pose with him for a picture. For me it was nice to see him walking around always curious checking out places, sights and people. Never shy and it always seemed completly natural for him to be there.
Joe lives in a house at the beach of the Gold Coast in Brisbane Australia. His children are all grown up, his wife divorced. He worked for ABC television and when his day of retirement came at the age of 64, he decided to go travelling. He has visited 63 countries since that time. Yes, good health and a strong will are important. Joe used to run marathons.
Since that time I haven’t seen Joe again and I never made it to Birisbane to meet him. We kept in contact by writing letters. I know he continued to go to Beijing on several more occasions and he stayed in contact with the Chinese pensioners who wanted to improve their English.
So, it is never too late and as long as you are curious enough there is always plenty to explore and to see.
Reimar
Charles, yes, you make perfect sense.
I always tell aspiring photographers that making photographs for a living means coming home with the goods all the time every time. It is about the skill set that experience builds.
The downside is that my brain and eye tend to click into “auto” mode. I know what works, and find myself taking the same photos over and over. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing. An actor or musician can perform a peice over and over the same way, again, something only a skilled proffesional can do. I can make a great portrait of someone in a few minutes, using the same lighting, background, and probably the same jokes as I used for the last one. While my ego might wish I did something different every time, that is not what the client wants. (beware of the client who says they want something different, they don’t).
It is about practicing our craft, and it is a craft.
Ups, I forgot to say that when I met Joe he was 85 years old.
DAVID BOWEN…
i had too much security….you gotta be hungry to do anything right….that goes for romance and for pictures….
hmmm….
Bodo; This is the quote I love;
“The youth gets together his materials to build a bridge to the moon, or, perchance, a palace or temple on the earth, and, at length, the middle-aged man concludes to build a woodshed with them”- Henry David Thoreau
The age debate is interesting and probably has to be taken on a case by case basis. I know that I’m taking and seeing images I could never have taken when I was younger. But I also feel that you go through “purple patches” where you seem to be in the zone and things just naturally come together.
It also probably depends what is happening in your personal life too. A personal crisis (e.g. divorce, loss of a family member or partner etc) could lead you to either do better work or worse, depending on the way you think/act through it.
When young you are full of piss and vinegar, but often don’t know how to express how you feel. Others (e.g. Dylan, Jagger/Richards, Lennon/McCartney etc) are extremely eloquent. I remember hearing Steve Jones (Sex Pistols) say that John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) was able to put into words how they all felt, but couldn’t express.
REIMAR; Re; HCB. I still think that his French and European work was his strongest. So I suppose you have to take into account that you are better at some subjects than others too. Maybe this also makes a difference in the quality of your output?
GORDON; “The downside is that my brain and eye tend to click into “auto” mode. I know what works, and find myself taking the same photos over and over”
I do the same with mag work; you know what they want so supply the goods. That’s why you need personal work to really let loose!
Age? Who cares? :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfaGb4-zp2c
Cheers
DAH,
yes, I can understand that very well. Damn the security!
Today I was discussing with a friend of mine the passing of time and the desire to travel. My friend is a photo student, 32 years old. She put it this way:
I want to be an unknown person again
I want to be interesting again
I want to be a cool pig
I want to know who I am
I want to feel my own power again
I want to find out that I can still do it
I liked that.
Best
Reimar
“I do the same with mag work; you know what they want so supply the goods” Meaning that there are only so many ways to creatively shoot someone’s organic garden etc, and you still do your best. Just in case anyone thinks you don’t always do your best!
Also regarding age; this bunch are playing in NZ. Their first gig (last night) was reportedly an absolute ripper! The sound track of my youth… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCssYzVl6oQ
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/3272979/Review-AC-DC-in-Wellington
Ross,
right on!
Funny Angus Young is still wearing his school uniform… best of times!
About a year ago they played in Germany. That evening I was on the Autobahn and on the radio they played highway to hell. Boy, I was flying in my car! After that I had to get a new car, but it was not AC/DC’s fault… my trusty Volvo had too many kilometers on the clock… 360 000 something… yes, yes, I know the carbon footprint… but the music was great!
Now I will check Imants essay!
Regarding David’s dry years, I was guessing kids. When I had kids I realized that I needed to care about my life and that made it much more dangerous to do dangerous things. That, and I cared more about the kids than about myself, much less any career goals. I never ceased trying artistically, but wasn’t into it 100 percent. That probably happens to a lot of people during their forties, give or take a few years.
PRESTON:
just for the record, i am totally not poo[pooing the Itouch…i watched, with Dima, the entire 1hr27 of Job’s show last night…what i loved best was the ibook possibility even though i’m very nervous (as are many writers) about the entire digitalization of books without compensation or negotiation…again, the extended corporatization of all things, under the guise of education, access, democratization…it’s trcky…and the mash up of all things, to me, are both good and bad….and as a writer and photographer am struggling with this…in one sense i do not believe in copyright per se, if i can figure out a decent way to earn a living from my work…i believe as tolstoy did about that, but i also have to figure out a way to make due and to provide for my son…i dont care alot about material things, and i totally dont care at all about wealth (own very very little except a few cameras, a computer and books and clothes) ….what i found depressing was Job et all’s presentation…although i liked the NYTimes, but listening to some o the app creators left me depressed at times and smiling….it was incredibly ironic, given Apple’s hammer-throwing, Winston-Smith quoting Superbowl commercial 25 years ago…to some degree they have become the antithesis of what that commercial stood for….but, that i imagine is the crossroad of technology and liberl arts ;)))…or rather, just another chance to make a ton of money….and i would not bemoan that at all, make as much money as they can, if they didnt couch their speeches in a bunch of feel-good blather…it’s the worst kind of demagoguery….
so, yea, i’ll get the ipad most likely and i am for reading digital books and all for new and different and innovative ways to carry and distribute and share media….
but i just find it depressing that we spend more time and get more excited over apple’s (and our) new toys than on trying to solve other basic problems….
i never look back nor am i a sentimental person (in terms of thinking the past was better), but i just see change as part of life, especially technological change, but elemental, spiritual, moral, developmental change is more important…and i am not sure that continues to happen…
anyway….
whatever juices people is good for them…..that in mind, i’m sure i’ll be ecstatic to read my book on an Ipad and watch my slideshow on an ipad…’cause that’s what we all crave anyway, isn’t it…..
alas….
any new way that can deliver media and information and knowledge and sharing in the most inexpensive and far-reaching way is all good to me….i just think that welcoming new technology and change syhould not be the same as ovating as if a stock holder….
anyway…
gotta fly to russian class
b
Howard Zinn, one of the great historians died today:
http://howardzinn.org
So it goes…
Michael
Yes, life has a way of interfering with our passions. It is one thing to eat, sleep, and dream photography, but it cannot be all we do and all we are. Those who are driven sometimes pay a high price for their passion. While I might admire their work, I seldom envy their lives.
I love what I do for a living (I make family portraits). It is more than a job. But family, with all its responsibilities and hardships enriches me and makes me whole. I cannot imagine life without them. I can envision a life without photography. It is a question of energy.
David Alan
I’m inspired by the fact that you have a pretty clear roadmap for your life.
RE: I-PAD
I just attended an ASMP program called
“Should I be thinking about Video” by Gail Mooney-Kelly.
The program was a true nuts and bolts overview of the
medium. Which I’m sure for most Burnians is old news.
This subject has been chasing me for a while and then there’s whole
“convergence” thing… Well BAM, Harvey’s shooting video because
his assistant is sick on the same day as the I-PAD is unveiled..
What is going on people?
We’re on the verge of having a lot of power in our stories. Perhaps the
I-PAD will be what changes the game, especially if the new “system”
will support the added cost of production.
Gail calls still images “moments in time”
Gail calls video ”time in motion”
Humm… Stills, video, audio all mashed
up together…What not to Love*
*Civilian Mass Audience, 2009 and beyond!
Ahhhhh….POMARA,
you have promised me BBQ…on a real plate…
cause…Civilian… doesn’t get the tablet no table…:)))
I am coming over…:)))
REF: something about age…
“Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter.”
Mark Twain (American Humorist, Writer and Lecturer. 1835-1910)
No time to be around lately…BUT Civilian is always …here…cause
YOU BURNIANS ARE AAA…!!!
Keep the Fire BURNING…keep the tablets handy…keep the eyes open…
I MISS U ALL
P.S I believe in the impossible …hmmmm
I better …take it easy…too much work …no ouzo…rain and snow …
VIVA, VIVA,VIVA…
Pomara
DSLRs have made everyone a photographer. Now they are making everyone a videographer.
All good I guess.
MICHAEL…
my children were not, are not , inhibitors …quite the contrary then and now…my first came when i was 22 and i did some of my most creative things at that time…my second by the time i was 28 , and again i was reaching far…as i said, a certain amount of security came from all the work i did in my twenties and that led to a certain ambivalence..not intentional, it just happened..nobody noticed but me that i was not reaching..everyone else thought i was doing just fine..but, i knew the difference…so, i had to shake it up in general…and did..something was not right…so, i quit Natgeo staff, got divorced, joined Magnum…kept the kids…
GORDON…
i would never in a million years known how things were going to go…all that has happened is in general a surprise…you have even witnessed how Burn has gone and seen an evolution take place…none of this here was “planned”, yet at certain points i moved on it….i always have had a sense for what to do next….regret nothing….i do often “see” something…feel it, and am not afraid to act on it…i always figure that life is only lived once and whatever you are going to do eventually is best done now..
i always figure that life is only lived once and whatever you are going to do eventually is best done now..
David
Great advice.
James Nachtwey has some Haiti images on Time’s website
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1957522_2030344,00.html
on haiti, james nachtwey, vii for time:
how can this photographer make death and dying, grief, loss and sadness
be so beautiful, humane, so real, surreal that im able to look at it again? and again?
it doesnt make sense, such words cannot be in the same sentence. it’s not fair.
The Ipad seems to have generated a very premature “sigh of relief” in the media and among photographers. I’m not sure why anyone believes it will do anything but further devalue photography. If nobody is willing to pay for content now, why would the Ipad change that? Folks are talking about this thing as if it’s the second coming
““Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.”-catcher in the rye
“You take a really sleepy man, Esme, and he always stands a chance of again becoming a man with all his fac – with all his f-a-c-u-l-t-i-e-s intact.”-For Esme – with Love and Squalor
good bye J.D. Salinger…..I cannot, nearly, imagine the world without you, even though you left us poor fucks long ago….just 3 months ago, i re-read franny and zooey for my son….
how the world hurls….
and then we must right ourselves and see anew….
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/books/29salinger.html?ref=books
Jim,
because Apple did it for music once, now the expectation is to have it for all other content, too.
Besides iTunes, people still download commercial music elsewhere, but a lot of music gets bought.
It is easy, fast and one can salve one’s conscience.
Same for other content. Soon, you’ll be able to download a magazine in the print format enhanced with additional gadgets. People will pay for it. The content on the web will get a little less, but still enough to have an overview. The books and magazines on the iPad do not replace the content on the web, but the content in print, which is decreasing anyway. The hope is due to the less printing costs to have a business modell finally.
I could even imagine for myself buying a book twice: in print for the haptic and electronically to search inside and have it with me.
The pictures from JN from Haiti – I have the impression, I saw all of them before.
What power drives a person, to ever and ever again to go somewhere to see the same situations again?
I found two interesting articles, I would like to share with you:
comparison iPad vs Kindle (also has some info on buying content)
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-kindle-which-way-to-go/
and about flash and iPad, iPhone, etc
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/01/28/adobe-speaks-up-about-flash-on-the-ipad/
@Thomas about what power drives JN: because the same shit happens over and again…
must be crippling to have an instinctive style and aesthetic formula for such terrible subject matter..
Thomas, it’s not that I don’t see the utility of digital readers. I own a Kindle. It’s dandy for reading fiction books or other content that you just want to read from beginning to end, useless for any kind of reference book because it doesn’t understand the concept of a “page,” so you can’t really flip around and easily locate things.
My problem is that the only way that I can see the Ipad as mainstream content server is if the pricing is so low for content that it’s trivial, that the user would click the “buy” button without a second thought while browsing. I don’t see how a pricing model will evolve that’s any more beneficial for content providers than it already is (or isn’t, depending how you look at it) on the web. And this would seem to me the antithesis of what writers and photographers would really want.
John Vink, but who wants to look at the shame shit happen over and over again. Knowing it is enough of a downer. I own “Inferno,” but like DAH noted, how many times do you really want to see what’s inside?
jim – new generations have to see it – if you don´t like the program, or if it´s a repeat, turn it off..
trees still fall over in the forest even though you close your ears to it..
i think the JN story is not gratuitous..
really though – you´re becoming a parody of yourself here.. the catchphrase is old now and there is enough evidence out there that photography can help, even if it can not change the world..
still people have to disagree with you for the sake of balance..
and on and on it goes..
Jim, Thomas was asking why JN would do that again and again. I gave my thoughts on that. As to looking at the same shit: first some never did, second reminders for those who did before can be usefull, and third people don’t have to look.
Andy Levin:
http://www.100eyes.org/2010/01/andy-levin-tremblemann-de-te/
Tony Blair live in the Iraq enquiry. Lookout for the whitwash…:)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
DAH,
unreliable assistants……;-)) shoots always throw curveballs….
Hope it goes well.
Ian
with the iPad a whole new generation may now know of the trials and enlightenment of Holden Caulfield, see Gene Smith or JN for the first time, watch Casablanca on the bus…no doubt in my mind that this tech will revolutionize how we see content as well as create new dimensions and income for content providers….
it is TOTALLY the RESPONSIBILITY of the content providers (that would be US) to make this happen…Steven Jobs ain’t going to give you a job , but he sure as hell has given you a no excuses way to find one…
i read everyday here on Burn various complaints of either a sinking business or “woe is me i cannot be discovered”….if you are reading this sentence right now and cannot see how a combo of the possibilities of Burn (which is you) and the iPad can help you get your work out there (either art or journalism) and be so compensated , then i doubt anything can or will ever help you….
i would suggest right now to all of you to roll up your sleeves….get to work..come up with some creative ideas for yourself and for all of us…
for heavens sake , you have a medium ….but, do you have a message???
Bravo DAH.
for heavens sake , you have a medium ….but, do you have a message???
Hear hear.
BTW, David, regarding the kids thing, I was speaking only for myself, just wondering if it had any influence on you. Iinhibitor isn’t the word I would have chosen. More like “re-arranger of priorities.” I don’t see that as a bad thing. My priorities needed rearranging back then. And actually, art became more of a priority during those years and that’s when I started to see photography more as I did in my twenties, as something grand, and as something I could do well. I’ve never had much of a problem finding a message. It’s mastering the medium I have to worry about. Anyway, I didn’t mean to imply that I had any regrets. Life’s been great, actually.
MICHAEL..
i do not sense you as a man with regrets…and i did not mean to over simplify the child raising process…please know that i have enjoyed every minute of being a father, including the “re-arranging of priorities”…however, i did not re-arrange as much as many…having no money in grad school for baby sitters etc., we just took the boys everywhere…kids adopt to whatever surroundings very well..this led to me taking them on assignments at an early age and by the time i starting doing Natgeo world travel assigments, the pattern continued…i took them everywhere…we will all meet now in Rio…to work on a film and just to hang out together…always a pleasure….
David, sure it is educational but one could come up with same case studies select a few photographers say four and the case study is “Identity” eg Alejandro Chaskielberg, Marc Davidson,Jukka Onnela etc………..how what they do,images comments together with links etc all in short paragraphs etc
They do it for artist here is a simple form that can be expanded http://www.curriculumsupport.education.nsw.gov.au/multicultural_art/case_studies/construct_ourselves/cs_co_intro.html
In the end this gives people an opportunity to find out about burn photographers …….. may be useful in circus
Let me throw out a question where feedback from photographers working in the real world will really help me out.
Every year I hire a summer intern (yeah, we pay them :) from a Texas University who is majoring in journalism/photography. They spend three months here (usually June, July and August), and I try to give them experience in everything from assignments, to layout, etc. This year I’ve hired a young woman who is specifically interested in the photography side of the business. Her portfolio looks good (writing and photos). She is bright and outgoing. So, I think it will go very well from the nuts and bolts side.
They always are interested in their prospects for the future, and we talk about that. And this year I’m stumped about what to tell her. It’s a given she needs to become versatile. Needs to learn to write, shoot still and video, etc., to open more opportunities. But it is also a given that there are few positions available in traditional media, most particularly newspapers. The professional landscape has changed dramatically.
So, my question is, from those of you who work freelance or in various media, what are the real opportunities, what skills and traits does it take to make it out there, and is it realistic to actually expect to make a living as someone right out of college in journalism/photography? I think feedback from photographers actually doing it would be extremely helpful here.
ANTON, DAH
Once again I am faced with photo essays on BURN that I cannot watch because my software isn’t necessarily the “latest and the greatest”. I cannot watch either the Imants Krumins essay or the James Nachtwey essay. On the other hand, the Adam Smith fight essay I can watch without any problems. Up till now I have been able to watch about 80% or more of all the photo essays posted on BURN, including ones with voice-over, music, etc…. so. my question is, if all of those 80% of essays can be done in backwardly compatible, Flash-9 friendly format, what is it that makes it necessary to do some essays in a format that is not backwardly compatible and can only be viewed in the “latest” version of Flash? If there were some important functions or features that could not be handled in the slightly older, slightly more simple version, I could perhaps understand, but as far as I can tell, we’re all being bamboozled by software companies that are trying to force us to continually upgrade through deliberate forced obsolescence. I run into this same problem when people send me what should be perfectly simple-to-read Word documents if they were saved as “.doc”, but post-Vista Microsoft saves them automatically as “.docx” which is not backwardly compatible, and the people who send them are blithely unaware.
There is a solution for the docx thing. Just install the converter into your older version of word.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en
This flash issue is going to be a problem for Burn with the Ipad since it doesn’t support flash at all. HTML slide shows aren’t too slick, I’m afraid.
Jim, great question. I hope you are not the master of doom and gloom (as you have been here a few times) to the interns, there are still opportunities.
For me as a predominantly commercial shooter (I am working on self funded photojournalist stories and exploring putting my shooting skills to tell stories), the key is marketing. I am not that good at it. Making contacts, getting your book out there, entering competitions (the right ones) doing the rounds, getting in the know. There is a miriad of potential. Those potentials are changing as technology changes for and old school like me it sometimes becomes challenging. All this ontop of having a compelling body of work. It’s not easy but then again it never has been.
I have done my time trudging round ad agencies showing my book (art directors forget you made the appointment, if they do turn up they flip through you precious book with barely a flicker of emotion) this is tough but, look at the business world that is tough and unrellenting. My wife works in Retail and man that is tough, bosses breathing down your neck, competetors continualy ripping you off and undercutting, associates scrabbling up the greasy pole trying to knock you out, office politics……….
I would say, look at what others are doing, get inspired, go shoot shoot shoot shoot,find your way, show your work to as many people as possible (the relevant people,not just family) develop a thick skin. It is cheap to shoot these days go do it.
One of the best pieces of advice I was given when starting out “go and shoot projects” I won an award with the first one I did.
Cheers
ian
here is a note on the educational side, which a friend has pointed me towards..
ICP Lectures Now Available Online
http://www.ocularoctopus.com/?p=245&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OcularOctopus+%28Ocular+Octopus%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
tuck in
jim
i´ve really always tried to avoid talking too much about hoe the students will go on to make money.. there are plenty of ways.. fruit picking.. office work.. (hohoho)
i don´t think that much has changed.. the vast majority will never go on to do photography as a lifestyle.. and those who do will find their own way, just as we did.
the most important thing is to not discourage.. to embolden them with the confidence and theoretical as well as technical knowledge to get out there and do it.
freelancing when i began in the late 90´s was different from freelancing in the late 80´s which was different from freelancing in the late 70´s and on and on..
some will choose to tackle the contemporary knowledge required to make a mark and others will not even understand what is mean´t by making a mark.
so – as i write to people who email me.. there is no formula but hard work and learning how it´s going to work out for yourself.. that´s what i say to people as a teacher and as a freelancer.
now.. can anyone tell me how to support a young family with the thin air of high altitude, a language barrier and 35% tax?
BASE RATE TAX, that is.
jim – you can point people to this as well.
http://blog.magnumphotos.com/2008/11/wear_good_shoes_advice_to_young_photographers.html
¨show your work to as many people as possible (the relevant people,not just family) develop a thick skin¨
ian..
that´s great – just what many miss.. such simple advice to show people who care about the kind of work you are doing.. tailor the list of potential clients as you tailor your folio..
quality not quantity and, as you say, when you hit the right combo of contact and folio it need not take a great deal of legwork.. just a like mind to see what you´re trying to do.
going to nursery now.. friday afternoon playtime with son, where 2 years ago i´d now be rolling a fat one n heading for the transport terminal..
times change.. still searching for the right combo of photos n contact for this chapter of life :o/
David, yea I did the same thing. That’s part of what led to some re-arranging. Long story, but the short of it is that I found myself and my four year old daughter hiding in a closet in a small Mexican village near the border while a drug convoy passed and federales reconnoitered the village. I wasn’t afraid, but didn’t feel the stories I was interested in were worth those kinds of risks. I kept on for awhile, but that was the moment of realization.
Jim, as someone based in New York and familiar with typical editorial salaries here, I’d recommend your intern have a sizable trust fund. That seems to be the norm.
And what many seem to be missing on the Flash/Apple products issue is that the content will be created as apps. As I linked to yesterday, Flash CS5 will create Apps directly out of Flash. Burn slideshows can easily be converted to apps, then downloaded for free, for cash as a one time thing, or as a subscription.
JIM..
yours is a good question and one that i try to answer everyday to young photographers..of course , it mostly depends on the work they are producing…i give one piece of advice to one person and another piece of advice to another depending on their skills and interests….i promise to skype you over the weekend to discuss this in detail because it is important and an issue of which we are both always thinking..you mention versatility…one of the problems i do see when i view the portfolios of newspaper photographers, is that they are often too versatile…they do sports, news, feature, some studio etc. and end up with no voice or style of their own…yes, this is tricky because they do need to do all those things in order to work for a newspaper in the first place and does provide valuable experience at trying many things…versatility with the media, video etc., is another thing entirely and i think that is what you mean..anyway, i do not have much time this morning, but i will make contact…thanks for asking this constructive question…i am sure others will jump in as well….in any case, let’s work on this one…this is one of the issues i care about most…..
MICHAEL..
a sizable trust fund works…lacking that, there are other ways….still we all do totally have to get over the idea that earning a living as a photographer is like trying to be a doctor or a lawyer or one of the “professions”…earning a living as a photographer with a voice or point of view or style is NOT one of the professions…there is no “profession” that somehow owes photographers a living any more than the music industry owes a guitar player a hit record…go to law school and most likely you will get a job as a lawyer…there are no parallels in photography as we discuss it here at all…..there are opportunities, but not jobs….to be continued…
cheers,david
sidney
will email you privately to fix this… this is definitely NOT an issue of “latest greatest”… both david and i have not-so-new stuff as well
we will fix, no worries
cheers
a
Jim:
excellent question….
not a lot of time to write, but just a quick thought. In terms of being a freelance photographer, and by this i am making the assumption about we’re talking about documentary/journalist, there are a ton of varieties. I have some close friends who are young photographers and making a big splash and doing well (professionally, job-wise, editorially) like my friend Dominick Nahr whose been in Haiti covering the events for the WSJ, as won a bunch of awards and is represented by a good agency. He worked his ass off (and was young) and has done well: a combination of hard hard work, great eye/skill, good interpersonal skills and he always strove to listen to others and learn. I also have friends who are young who are struggling to make a living and do so through a combination of things: teaching, commerical work, weddings, editorial assignments, other jobs. there is no real reciepe for success, job-wise. One thing is absolutely certain, a photographer (young and old) must possess a few things:
1) a tireless work effort/ethic
2) a real depth and variety of SKILL: photograpy and writing
3) a strong willingness and openness to LEARN, TO ADAPT: to learn new things (new media, new technologies, new outlets, new vehicles, new platforms/programs):
4) good people skills: i mean you do not have to be a ‘nice’person: some photographers are my favorite on the planet and some just depress the hell out of me, but the ‘successful’ ones (whatever that means) usually are tuned in to people, or tuned into seeing/learning/absording from others…it does help, in the short tun, to be able to create relationships with a variety of people: photographers, editors, publishers, clients, subjects etc…
5) really have a belief and a very strong will and thick skin for hardship
I would countenance young (and old) photographers a simple thing: it’s tough, it’s tough in all professions, and one must have both a desire of belief in what they are doing and the perspective that you will most likely fail at what it is you thought you’d accomplish and from that spin that into vision and desire
my wife and i have run the gambit of jobs: teaching, diswasher, journalist, writer, secretary, etc…it’s tough in the art world too (making money) but one simply finds what it is they need to do to support that…long ago, i stop worrying about making a profession, per se, from my work, but i committed my life to the making of it, the showing of it, the sharing of it…..
and generosity…in the deepest sense…i think it is most important to study too, i mean LOOK look look at as much phtoography/art/ideas/books/magazines and talk alot, so that you really believe in what y ou want to do….the rate of change is enormous…some have a few good years and then get disenchanted, some shoot their entire lives….but, to me, what holds it all together is the work….like being a barber…aint gonna come to the shop if you aint givin good haircuts….
David: 100%1….work is always the key…and a new platform aint gonna mean anything if the photographer isnt working they’re ass off in the belief to care about their work….
vision and good/challenging/interesting work may not always (or rarely) pay the bills but it will abide :)))
ok, marina returns finally after 5 weeks…and im exhausted with joy….about time…
running
b
nicely put bob.
ultimately whatever one needs to you, do it..
at every turn, to do something you´re interested in it has to be about the work and that is the reward in itself.
“….but, do you have a message???”
and there you have it…
Jim…
“what skills and traits does it take to make it out there” –
versatility… with gear perhaps, in these fast changing digital times… but i think in an overcrowded market, rather than trying to be a jack-of-all trades one needs to focus down to a niche… something that you’re very passionate about… Work from the heart, love it… and… “do you have a message???”
—————
db… “going to nursery now.. friday afternoon playtime with son, where 2 years ago i´d now be rolling a fat one n heading for the transport terminal..”
tell me ’bout it! but… why not role a fat one and go to afternoon nursery, :))
So, Akaky, how was your Thursday? Jeez, it’s funny you should ask. As Thursdays go, yesterday was a bottomless pit of pigswill, punctuated every so often with chicken shit. Thursday was a day wherein, and in no particular chronological order, my car broke down on I-84, the heat in my house turned off all by itself in the middle of the night for reasons I am not sure I fathom completely, and I got caught walking on an open road next to the Hudson River just as a snow squall complete with 40 mph winds came roaring by (they really do roar, no kidding) on its way to Connecticut. Given the zero visibility, I had to stand still for about ten minutes with my glasses freezing to my face and my F1 under my coat freezing to my stomach, wondering why I didn’t take up quilting when I had the chance. So after a day of seemingly nonstop misadventure, I returned this morning to the egregious mold pit wherein I labor for my daily bread, turn on my computer, bring up Burn, and what are the denizens of Burn discussing? Age, a topic I do not want to think about, much less discuss, or as one very smart person put it, age is nothing but a number, but some numbers are more significant than others. I trust you guys will pardon me if I stop and ponder whether or not I should go home now, there to open an artery and get the aggravation over with forthwith, thereby skipping the extremely distressing scene where my niece the Nazi moppet ships me off to the old folks home and tells me why this is for my own good. You’ll be happy to know, however, that the heat is back on at the house and the car is in the shop, and that the cause of yesterday’s disruption is minor and easily fixed. All is vaguely well, and will be until I see how much Lenny (my mechanic, whose kids my car and I have put through college) is billing me to fix my car’s minor problem. There is no automotive problem so minor that a skilled mechanic cannot turn it into a major automotive problem if he really puts his mind to it.
PS Bob, Lermontov doesn’t count. Getting shot does nothing to improve your longevity, whether or not you are a genius.
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rather than trying to be a jack-of-all trades one needs to focus down to a niche… something that you’re very passionate about… Work from the heart, love it… and… “do you have a message???”-
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sam
I need to stop reading.. if this is true, and other reports say similar things also.. it’s simply crazy:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704878904575031582310387538.html?mod=WSJ-hpp-LEADNewsCollection
BURNIANS…
“…do you have a message…”
I am laughing like there is no tomorrow…
Grecoland is going through hard times BUT…YOUR home is open and ready…!!!
I miss you alllll…KATIE …I LOVE YOU…our PATRICIA…LASSAL…FROSTFROG…HAIK…
THOMAS…MIKER…WENDY…AUDREY…………………………..
………………………LOVE to all of you…
P.S MR.DAH …may the spirits of help be with you
Akaky,
Thank you for your post, you actually made me feel better! I thought my Thursday sucked because my electric dryer quit heating. Spend hours tearing it apart, vacuuming out lint, checking components for continuity, and still had to call the repairman.
Hope your Friday/Weekend is better…
C’mon people! IPAD is DOA without FLASH!
Not only could I not access Eva’s link above with my iPhone, but I can’t access BURN content or my own website. The iPad won’t be any different, just bigger and more expensive. Until Apple and Adobe learn to play together, I just don’t see this as a viable media platform (except for music and books).
Okay whiny baby! Gotta go.
CP
With regard to how to make a living as a photojournalist/photographer I have no specific advice to offer. I have made many mistakes so far and have wracked up a decent size debt. That being said I do have a paying job. I am a pharmacist and have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for over 10 yrs. After being fired, rightly so, for reporting the the misdoings of a coworker (no one likes tattle tales) I become quite cynical and disenfranchised. I went back to my roots, photography which I discovered at 13 and actually being a pharmacist to help people. Since then photography has become my passion and my peril because I love doing it but have not figured out how to stop losing money doing it.
Recently I have been going through an existential crisis, how do I continue to do what I love and support my family. Through some mysterious and mystical process I have somehow come to a possible solution, and although it excites me to no end, it also scares the crap out of me. I am considering joining the Canadian Armed Forces as a pharmacist (they are recruiting) and volunteering for humanitarian deployment. As Canada has pledged to help Haiti to a significant degree and will likely be there for the next 10 years there is a good chance if I am accepted and take the position that I would be sent to Haiti. First I would have to undergo a year of service and training before being deployed. The term is 6 years which is the part the scares the crap out of me. I have a 4 year old son and my daughter is turning 3 in March. Is this the right thing for me and for them?
I asked David for some advice hoping that he would talk me out of it but without hesitation he said go for it. So I am asking anyone else to talk me out of it because the more I think about it the more I want to do it. And to be honest I am scared and not too proud to admit it.
Frank, are you married? If yes, what does your wife say?
Jim;
I think part of the key to keeping your head above water is to be able to write too. It’s the only thing that has kept my head above water, but it has it’s pitfalls too. Mind you; going freelance 12 months before a recession sure wasn’t the smartest thing to do!!!
If you want to have a quick chat about what has worked send me a Skype message (rossnolly). I’ve got two articles to get finished by Wednesday so haven’t time to write screeds about the subject, but can spend quarter of an hour or so on Skype if needed. I will write up what has worked for me and post it here, but not for a few days… Deadlines…..
Cheers
Another take on Haiti by Jan Grarup from NOOR
http://www.noorimages.com/index.php?id=3659
EVA
My wife is supportive. It would be big change in her life. I think the 6 yr commitment is daunting for her as well. That is 6 yrs in the forces not 6 yrs fully deployed.
frank..
your post did make me laugh.. you know…
i´m utterly at a loss to talk you out of it.. sounds like fun.. enjoy & send us a postcard :ø)
Frank, no one outside your family can tell you what to do in this case. Were it me, knowing what I know now, I would not spend a significant time away from my children for any six year period before they turn teenagers and don’t want you around anyway. I would have missed a lot and odds are fair it wouldn’t have been good for them either. I’m not offering advice, only speaking for myself.
Frank, I don’t know in what setting you practice, but working as a high-volume retail pharmacist nearly killed my father. (In some ways, it did kill his spirit.) I worked as a pharmacy tech for 4 years during college, no way I could for 25 or so years like he did.
Frank:
i am literally running out the door (just clicked to see if Marina’s flight is delay, which it is45), so screw-me, im leaving a message at burn ;)))..
ok, listen. i am a dad and struggle like hell, actually marina and i struggle like hell to raise our son….on 2 artist income with money from teaching (little) and odd and end photo/writing accomplishments…aint enough to typically not be stressed by living in a big n.american family…and i spent alot of time writing, reading, photogrpahing, processing, time alone, etc…and my son and wife are THE most important things on this planet…but let me tell u this too…
though i wouldnt trade time with my son or wife for anything or anyone else on this tiny globe, i can tell u this: you MUST do what your heart counters you to do….in other words, a miserable, questioning, depressed, ‘i-wish-i-had-done-that’ kind of parent will never be a good parent, you children will love you and get what they need most from you (love, nourishment, support, respect, kindness, etc) with your heart intact…in other words, if this is the leap that you feel you must to to a) support your family, b) follow the path that was made for you, you must do it…
in truth, children ask for very very little from their parents (well, ok, not teens ;) ), but to be loved and cared-up and supported and honored and time together….my dad, for example, was an extraordinary father and he was often not home until late (his own business) but i never ever remember thinking ‘where’s my dad’ because he gave us so much love…it’s still true today: he’s poor and still working in his 70’s and still love the fuck out of that man…ditto with my mom….
and both marina and i have had to bust our asses to make ends meet and to make a life as artists and raise a son, and we try to give dima all we can, which materially is pretty little, but he is our compass point…and he knows that….and if either of us had to go, we’d go…shit, we’d all move to haiti (my dad took us to taiwan, and, shit, it often seemed like we were a family of gypsy-nomads when we returned to the us) if that is what needed to be done….
1+1+1=1….no way around that :)))
you may never make a life as a photographer by doing this but you certainly will at least have attemped and at least you, your wife and children will know you tried to carve out the life what might have been best for all of u…..
if u need to chat over a beer, drop me a line…next 3 weeks are horrendous (deadline) but will try to clear the decks and chat :))
running to pearson
b
DAVID
Thanks, someone has finally seen some humor in this predicament : )
MICHAEL
Thanks also for your response. I know that no one can answer these questions other than myself or my immediate family. I know my parents will probably wanna kill me if I go. I too am concerned about the time away from family. To be more clear a deployment could last 2 weeks to 6 months. The service commitment is 6 yrs. I would not be away from my family for 6 yrs straight. I would not sign up for that willingly. Although my grandfather (now deceased) was a prisoner of war in Russia and was separated from my grandmother and family for 5 years before finding them by chance in the chaos after WWII. My grandfather on my Dad’s side was killed in action -.0toward the end of the war.
JUSTIN
Right now to make ends meet I am working in a fairly busy dispensary. I also dispense methadone to over 25 patients/day many of which are some of the most interesting characters you will ever meet, some of which are at rock bottom. I do enjoy helping people but don’t enjoy getting yelled at because it is taking too long or it costs too much, or why won’t you give me those Percocets without a prescription. One of the questions I have asked myself is do I want to do this for the next 6 yrs or not. I guess the bottom line is that I want to be a documentary photographer so how I am going to make that work with what I have got, given the economic realities of media at present.
CIVI
You make me smile, your BBQ will be served
on fine china.
Gordon
Everyone with a DSLR can take pictures and now video
but not everyone can MAKE a picture!!!
One great advantage photographers have with video is
a greater appreciation for lighting and how important
that is to a visual message. Many here are very adept
at telling a story, we now have two more tools we can
employ–Sound and Motion! Believe me, I’ll be looking
for ways to incorporate those into my work in the future.
PICTURE HOPE FOR HAITI: Women Photographers Benefit Doctors Without Borders. Limited edition fine art photographs from amazing female artists, all for only $50.00 each! 100% of the proceeds benefit Doctors Without Borders to support their work in Haiti. THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT!
Link to Online Exhibit
http://www.soulcatcherstudio.com/exhibitions/haiti/index.htm
pomara
I have to admit a curiosity, but it seems I don’t have enough time to deal with all the stills I take, let alone video. Then there is learning new software. I actually own a 5d11 but have never shot video with it.
It is absolutely a whole new ballgame. One of my favourite pieces here on Burn was the South African Hotel essay, with video and sound mixed with still. Brilliant.
I’m just not sure I’m up for it myself, but can absolutely appreciate the possibilities.
I actually worked on a 16mm educational film years ago, which was fun but an outrageous amount of work.
Gordon,
My livelihood depends upon making images. Hopefully that will
be the case in the future. Video and sound are not something
I anticipated when I went into this business, but then again,
digital wasn’t a consideration either.
For me and I hope for anyone else attempting to put all of these
pieces together, there is good news: There is no big hurry but
there is no time to waste. This new form of storytelling is just emerging.
Yes there are a number of folks dipping their toes into video
and sound, but the format has not yet taken shape, it just appears so
because of the immedicay of the WWW. There is time to learn the skills and
perhaps have some input on the way it is employed through our creativity.
frank..
once, when i was receiving the dole and unemployed(able?), on hearing my future work plans the benefit officer who interviewed me every week told me he had begun to read a self help book called ‘feel the fear and do it anyway’.. something like that.
he said that he was too afraid to finish it because it made him want to change everything about his life… his job.. his family..
i could not help laughing right there at his desk..
once, when i was receiving the dole and unemployed(able?), on hearing my future work plans my mother laughed..
:o)
David B; “on hearing my future work plans my mother laughed..”
Well that guarantees you were on the right track!! :-)
Frank
I’m excited for you too, but a little apprehensive. How exactly do you see this path helping you toward your goal of making a living a photographer?
Jim
I’m not a PJ but some of the advice I try to give aspiring photographers is to take the business side of things seriously, and to have at least SOME kind of business plan.
What exactly is it you are selling? (it’s not just photographs)
Who is your target market? This is basically who do you want to sell to and what are they willing to pay. How are you going to GET the work, which is marketing by any other word you choose. Work does not just drop into your lap no matter how great your stuff is.
How much money do you hope to make, and how much will you have to gross to achieve that. Understand what your expenses and overhead really are. Typically, an accountant will tell you if one dollar in four ends up in your pocket you are doing great. So if you want to keep $50,000, you need to gross $200.000. Or, lets say you are brilliant at keeping expenses down and you keep half of your gross, you need to gross $100,000 to keep $50,000. So, to achieve that, you could do one job per year that pays $100,000, 5 that pay $20,000, or a hundred jobs that pay $1,000, or,… a thousand jobs that pay $100 (probably not a good strategy).
Of course also take into consideration that when you are self employed there are no benefits, unemployment insurance, or pension plans…Gee, pharmacy is starting to look good.
This is all business 101 stuff, but it is where most fail (and most do fail)
While this all sounds like a downer, I encourage anyone who has the passion to go for it. You just need to go in with your eyes open. Freelance photography is a business.
gordon..
absolutely right on – if you-re leaving paid regular work of any kind to freelance it-s really essential to get over any naivety about money and business plans.. it’s astonishingly tough at start up with little or no money.. a plan is a great reference and benchmark.. 3 possible ways of making money.. all that jazz.
ross..
when i was 16 and dragged home a knackered dark room set i’d bought at a car boot sale, she was between tears of laughter and small anger at the extra junk she presumed would end up in the garage..
encouragement of a sort.. >:o)
posted some extra stuff under my essay……… https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/01/imants-krumins-etrouko-the-book-i/#comments
in light of this:
http://www.pdnpulse.com/2010/01/verve-fee-policy-sparks-debate-about-blog-business-models.html#more
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/verve-photo-blog-charging-for-submissions
– i can only applaud Burn (and DAH and Anton) for actively seeking a way to renumerate the photographer for online content.
Frank, I’m with Bob! If it was me I’d just clear up if there would be different opportunities, and then go for it. I’m in line for a postcard ;)
POMARA (PAUL)…GORDON
i think you may know i just attempted a video shoot….my first pro attempt…i was scrambling to be sure and only made it because i had such a cooperative family and they were perfect subjects in every way….the way i decided to do it in this case was to do all the still photography first..three days worth…then i shot the video in one day pretty much based on the sequence of the still work…now this was an ad shoot, with the family well compensated, so i had control over the subjects in a way that i would not have had with straight documentary…still kids are kids, so much of it ended up actually being freestyle documentary for all practical purposes….the client, Common Sense Media, wanted this to be documentary style in any case…
i looked first at the 5D thinking a still camera with the capability of doing video would make the most sense…after lots of testing and talking with pro videographers, i came to the conclusion that this would not work..great files and look for the 5D (the very best), but impractical to use as a pure video camera with moving subject matter…too hard to work..too hard to focus…just not a working video camera without about 3k worth of accessory shoulder stocks, focus rings, etc etc…i ended up with a Sony HDV which was just perfect…no doubt the look of the 5D would have been better…you cannot beat that large full frame sensor…but a still camera is built to be held in the hand one way and a video another…i am sure in the future a hybrid camera will evolve and we will be able to seriously consider doing both with the same camera…and frame grabs off of Red are amazing…but, for the way i was working to do serious video , something like the Sony was the way to go…and in some cases while my subjects were moving all over the place, i used a super heavy duty tripod and in other cases hand held…the combo looks great although it remains to be seen how the stills and video are combined in final form….for me on this particular shoot it was also way better to separate the two..stills one day, video the next…it is not about frame grabs…it is about how one does one thing and one does another..i liked being able to simply make a movie OR capture moments…for me, two separate experiences and ways of looking at the very same subject…
If anyone wants a Leica M8.2. I have one in mint condition for $3000 or your best offer.
EVA…BOB…GORDON
my immediate affirmative for Frank was based on something he wrote to me that he did not say in quite the same way here…Frank said to me ” i would be involved in humanitarian aid, would be able to support my family, and of course i would have my camera all along”…those three “bullet points” put it over the top for me as a life decision…..
If anyone wants an EFS canon 17-55mm IS 2.8 (think) dud, please feel free to relieve me of mine (so long as I don’t make a loss). I can’t get sharp images from it. I am so cheesed off. Or is there something i haven’t understood about autofocus. (This being my first autofocus lens) I have tried manual focus also but I am going blind and can’t seem to get this right either. I think its just the lens.
The buddha abandonned his wife and baby son to follow his heart.
Andrea – not to assume you are doing anything wrong, but as this is your first AF lens, are you positioning the little switch on AF or MF depending on which way you are shooting?
DAH – sounds like it was a great ad shoot. I love that you fly by the seat of your pants so well. Can you let me know a good time to talk about loft / skype images? Thanks!!!
“When you have to make a choice and don’t make it, that is in itself a choice.”
William James (American Philosopher and Psychologist, 1842-1910)
FRANKY …You know…yes, deep inside you know…
whatever you know…whatever your choice…your Civilian is here and waiting…
I got ouzo, meatballs and goat cheese…come over:)))
POMARA…you smile …I smile…the whole BURN is smiling…
LOVE ,PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY
Andrea, use the center focus point only in your camera. Be sure the lens is set to AF. If that doesn’t work, you’ve got a dud lens and need to have it serviced. If it’s simply front or back focusing, the latest Canon’s will allow you to adjust that from a menu option. But, I don’t know what camera you have.
David, which Sony did you shoot with? I’m looking for something with better low-light quality than my current Canon camcorder.
ohhh…I forgot…
no plates are needed …I eat BBQ from the BURNING grill …
OIME…
Can I dance now???
ANDREA…
even a dud would look somewhat sharp if focused in the right place and with no camera motion…..if it looks out of focus to you on either the back of the camera or on your computer screen, then you are doing something wrong….does it look out of focus, or just not sharp?? there is a difference in the look and in the reasons for “not sharp”…
JIM..
SONY HVR Z1U…this camera is discontinued i think , but there is a similar newer version…i have no idea how effective it is in low light….inside, i was mostly shooting in late afternoon living room light..playback looks terrific…lights on, but with just a bit of daylight coming through…outside, sunset front lit subjects at beach..spectacular look and lucked out with a full moon coming up out of the ocean…
AndreaC:
Have you tried any other lenses on that body? A fellow posted on another forum that he was having sharpness problems with a new 5D – turned out that the sensor was out of alignment.
“It rarely snows here on the Carolina shore.But coming down hard now.A winter fireplace day.By next week it will be hot summer for me.Rio hot 41 mins ago”
You’re telling us this just to taunt us, aren’t you?
EVA, BOB, GORDON, DAVID, DAH, CIVI
Thanks for all your support and input. If I was a better man I would make this decision without hesitation and absolute confidence. I am in the end insecure, hesitant, excited, expectant, nervous, doubtful, proud, and confident. All these things are swimming in my mind like fish in a bowl. I kind of like the idea of my life coming down to three bullet points. I don’t want to foist responsibility on anyone, least of which DAH, this is my decision, and mine alone. I do value the input and have a lot of respect for each of your perspectives. Sharing helps me to ease the anxiety in making a decision. I have asked the Universe for signs, and they keep appearing. Some would say that you get what you look for. I personally believe in synchronicity and put my faith in the mysteries of life.
GORDON
Part of the task in being a photographer is being there. This will help me to be there, the rest is up to my luck, photographic skill, and probably a lot more luck.
Andrea
While it is possible that you have a dud lens it is very un-likely. What other lenses are you using on the camera, and are you having trouble with them too?
Like Jim and many people who are used to manual focus, I set the camera to use only the center focus point. Then, using the custom functions, I program the shutter/ae lock button to do the focusing. Then the shutter release no longer causes the camera to focus. When you want to focus, you place the center spot on your subject and press the shutter/ae lock button ( under your right thumb). You can now re-compose any way you like and remain focused on your subject, just like when using manual focus on a film slr. The camera will not re-focus until you press the shutter/ae lock button again.
The way autofocus cameras work normally, you have to partially depress the shutter button, note which of your focus points light up to make sure it is focused where you want, then, while holding the shutter button in the partially depressed position, recompose and take your shot. If you want to take another shot you have to do it all again because the camera wants to re-focus every time you depress the shutter release.
Of course you can just blast away and hope that the camera focuses where you want, and it often does. Even with off center subjects, the focusing program usually assumes you are interested in the closest object and focuses on that.
With a point and shoot camera, there is so much depth of field that focus is far less critical. Your Canon dslr with that relativly fast lens is much more demanding focus wise, so it could be that you just need to be a lot more careful. The upside is that you have the option of using selective focus when using this lens.
email me if you can’t figure out how to program the camera to do this. glafleur3@shaw.ca
Frank, you got three bullet points backed by family support, you’re a lucky man ;)
Having no fear, no doubts or hesitation wouldn’t make you a braver man.. it only shows you’re a thinking human being.. and that’s a good thing! Best of luck, whatever you decide!
Hey Everyone!
Yesterday was Felix’s first birthday! Doesn’t seem that long ago his picture was appearing here on Burn.
Today’s the big party. Lots of babies and toddlers coming. Never ever thought I’d be “go baby power!” But fuck yeah!
DAH,
Are you using the M9 yet? Curious what you think. Not a review just a muse.
CP
FRANK
send me an email when you have a moment…couldn’t find yours’ on your site. was EXACTLY where you are now a month ago.
marc
ERICA…
“flying by the seat of my pants” probably accounts for about 80% of what i do on assignment in general, one way or another…guess i am used to it…
i will be NYC tues and wednesday..we can speak then if you want…
CHARLES…
i am using the M9 in Rio…out of the almost two weeks of shooting i did so far, i used the M9 about 50% of the time…and will use it extensively for the next 5 weeks as i go to Rio now for the final push…M9 overall terrific…some weak points…it is still slow to process by Nikon or Canon dslr standards as is the M8…you can get caught “without a camera” if you shoot too fast…so, you have to pace yourself…i have heard this is being fixed…and , has been reported, anything over 800iso will give you some noise…this is not really a problem because i am using a 1.4 lens which makes up for the relatively low iso…again, compared to the mid and upper range Nikon or Canon, the viewing screen is just not up to par…but, this does not really matter either, i do not look much anyway, and the files are great, which is all that matters…again, if you try to compare the M9 to a 5D or D700 in terms of speed and hi iso , you will think it slow…oh yea, batteries go fast….but, if you compare it to those cameras in terms of size, unobtrusiveness, and the general user friendliness of Leica , it cannot be beat…working with a Leica is a special experience not to be equaled by anything else for my style of shooting…meter right on…viewfinder bright…if they just pick up the speed a bit and power up those batteries, i think we are there….i also just bought the Lumix gr1 with the pancake 20 and aux viewfinder ( just 1k as opposed to 10k))…going to give that a street test as well…betcha it is good…
Happy Birthday Felix!
Frank i second Marc..
email me here: innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com
i might be able to share a “story” with you…
one thing for sure , you are not alone…click also
on my name above..you will notice that i am “suspended”…
see what i mean?
ohhh ..i just noticed that thanks to Anton , the suspended address just been removed..
thank u Anton…
:)
Ben
Regarding Verves decision to charge a fee to featured photographers.
Let me get this straight, viewers get to see the work for free, photographers no longer have the priviledge of working for free, but instead have to be paid for being published.
Any photographer who would agree to that is an idiot.
DAH
Have we given up publishing selected photographs?
DAVID,
That’s been my exact experience with the M9 as well. As far as I’m concerned it’s as close as one can get to shooting film. Hopefully Leica will speed things up a bit with a firmware fix. So far over two months with it and no hiccups. Knock on wood. My 35 Lux pretty much lives on it. I shoot with 800 a lot, and anything over that isn’t bad, just be sure to expose more to the “left” (lower speeds I find under actually a bit better.
Will be curious to see what you think of the GF1. Not sure where that really fits into the scheme of things as it’s not really pocketable – may as well just carry an M. Cool looking camera though.
Okay, enough gear talk – have a blast in Rio and play it safe. We’ll be off to Kauai in a month for a week on the beach. Big sigh….
CP
GORDON..
no, but as i have mentioned before, we rarely receive strong singles….everyone seems most interested in submitting essays…however, there are a few “selected photographs” coming soon…
viewers get to see the work for free, photographers no longer have the priviledge of working for free
——————————————————————————————————–
tell it like it is, Gordon
:)
CHARLES…
yes, the M9 is like shooting film….shooting film is a slower experience than shooting digi, so if we do not compare to the big digi guns, it is still faster than shooting film a la M6 (in the overall time frame..remember, changing film in the M6 took a full minute every 36 pictures)…….i was not thinking of the Lumix as pocket friendly, but subject friendly.. certainly unobtrusive…anyway, we will see
wishing Felix a Happy Birthday..hard to imagine that was a year ago he was here on Burn…safe travels..
FELIX…HAPPY BIRTHDAY …baby FELIX is one more of our emerging baby philosophers!!!
To the PETERSON family…we wish …LOVE,HEALTH,MONEY and may the Universe brings
whatever you wish !!!
FELIX, TOR CAPA, THE DARK KIDS,BRIGETTE…EVA LUNA,DIMAS…and all the new blood out there…
are the BURNING future …
What not to LOVE…ENJOY!!!
Eva
Thank you so much for posting the link to the slide show in the Wall Street Journal by Peter van Agtmael. I can imagine, knowing the frustrations of doing just the smallest thing in Costa Rica that that frustration must be multiplied to the Nth power in Haiti. I could feel the heat, the fatigue, the sense of impotence of the workers and the director of the project, not to mention the hunger of the Haitians waiting for food. As evening came on, the skies grew dark, the futility of the exercise more than most could bear, the food dumped at the airport like the dead bodies were dumped in open pits at the landfill. It makes the heart weep. I want to peer over Haiti like a board game, or the way we used to play in the dirt with cars and trucks..clear out the rubble, build good roads, new neighborhoods, warehouses, distribution points. I want to bring life back to the entrepreneurs killed in the quake and put them back to work re-building their businesses, the economic web that held this society together. i want to blow off the dust, cool the air, set up up the markets and the agricultural fairs..i want to kiss it and make it better and i just can´t. Imagine this convoy multiplied by how many more throughout the day, the week..and the people waiting for food, wishing perhaps they were anywhere else in the whole world.
Frank:
For whatever it´s worth..no one can tell you what you should do..except i guess your wife. But when i have been at a place in my life (like now) of going nowhere fast, the risks i took, and they were big, shaped my future in important ways. The only regret i have is not going further in my education. Ah, the impatience of youth. Otherwise, i have no regrets. And some of those decisions involved moving to another country, moving back home and then moving back to that country again. These big risks we take are empowering. They build strength, resolve, commitment, maturity, experience, wisdom and at their best, can be more successful that your wildest dreams. Sitting still waiting for life to happen can breed a very bad attitude. If you can live with the worst case scenario that might result from your decision then the way seems clear to me. GO.
Best
Kathleen
DAH,
Hey thanks. Yeah, it seems like both he shortest and longest year of my life.
Yeah, good to slow down a bit with digital. I don’t really miss changing rolls that much. How about switching out 120 during crowded sweaty breakdancing contests? Now that’s slowing down!
CIVILIAN,
Yes, VIVA the new generation! Have an ouzo on them!
Okay, birthday guests showing up anytime now. Over and out.
CP
As some of you know, I keep a daily photo-blog. Despite the fact that I live in Wasilla and have slipped a few times, I try to keep it out of the daily political fray. But I wanted to say something about the Obama/House Republican face off and so chose to take a picture of my computer screen. By pure coinidence, two pages were up on my monitor – one with Obama answering questions, juxtaposed by Burn, with Adam Smith’s “fight journal.” It was a coincidental juxtapostion that I was pleased with. If anyone should be curious, you can find it here:
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2010/1/30/obama-stands-as-grasshopper-before-house-republicans-funny-f.html
Also, I lost control and did a bit of a rant about my terribly inefficient blog host, Squarespace. I have some big ideas as to where I want to take this thing, but I can’t do so if I am spending more time wrestling an unwieldy bloghost than I am creating. Yet, there are so many links out there to my pages and on Google I have struggled so long to rise from the listitng a few hundred pages back to the top of page 1 that I don’t want to just drop it all and start fresh on a new site – although that might be what I have to do.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them:
runningdog@ak.net
Thank you
Hi all,
Documentary photography workshop in Romania! Join us (Aga and me) in the Maramures region of Romania in April 2010 for a week of enchantment in some of the most traditional villages left in Europe! Homestays with villagers, daily critiques and plenty of homemade plum brandy will be on offer!
Davin has photographed in the region for the past 10 years. 400 Euros for everything (food, lodging, transportation around to villages and our critiques).
DAH(David),
I will try and send you Gail Mooney’s PDF on the her
talk. She’s been there and done that and really does
know how to talk to photographers about video.
She will save me a lot of trial and error, but you really
have it right about using a the Sony, these are different
tasks. So is sound…
Sledding on the Dunes?
Frank MH
I laughed out loud at your post too… at that feeling of a plan like that coming into one’s mind, and knowing you’re going to have to come to terms with it one way or another, and wanting someone to come up with a perfect reason not to do it, but knowing things don’t work like that…
One small thing – there are a lot of men around who are too old to join the forces and harbour not-entirely-unconnected regrets. Please do it all, while all the time loving your kids with all you’ve got, and report back…
DAVID
I’ve sent you two emails today. Please check them out ;=)
Patricia
David,
RE: the Lumix GF1
Last week i played briefly with a neat little combo for this camera.
Adapters are available the allow you to use any M mount lens on the GF1.
A particularly compact combo,for street shooting in decent light, is to use the Voigtlander 12mm ( 24mm equivalent on GF1). Add a 24mm viewfinder and you’re good to go. Hyperfocal is pretty much required.
The 15mm (30 mm equivalent) is also compact, inexpensive, and sharp.
Worth a look IMHO
http://gizmodo.com/5459308/slate-showdown-ipad-vs-hp-slate-vs-joojoo-vs-the-android-tablets?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+gizmodo/full+%28Gizmodo
Frank…
I have a predisposition against the army so my initial response is, if you can help it stay away…
In your case though you’ll be serving in a special unit and you’ll be participating in relief efforts, which means that you won’t be an actual soldier… are you 100% sure though that they cannot send you into war? You know, under “special circumstances”, just like all those national guards in the US ended up in Iraq… make sure your contract is clear on that.
As a means of getting close to the story… yes, this will probably take to into places that you’d probably never go as a civilian—except if working with an NGO, but then again with the army you’ll have a monthly paycheck and benefits for you and your family… make sure though that you’ll be able to take pictures *and* that you’ll be allowed to publish them, otherwise it kind of negates one of your “bullet points”…
I’m posting this here so that I will get lost in a river of posts instead of under Imants’ essay among a few dozen other comments…
I wonder, if the current essay was not signed by Imants but by someone whom you’ve never heard of before, would you all be so positive in your reaction towards it??
I mean, “knowing” Imants through his posts I do know that there was a thought process behind this and I do get a vague vibe that there is some meaning behind or between all the layers of his work… but, besides finding myself intrigued enough to follow his work (something I don’t generally do towards this type of work, since I find it to be pretentious and empty) I don’t get it…
For me the measure of success for a piece of work is its ability to connect with an audience and become the means of communication between the artist and that audience… no artist/creator can control how his/her work will be in the end perceived by others, but I do think it’s of utmost importance to actually try to convey what you have in your heart and mind that you feel it needs to be said, in a way that others can understand… isn’t this the reason we invented languages in the first place?? Isn’t a visual language a language too?? I do understand that the rules need to be broken in order to expand our means of expression, but still… if you start speaking a different language it’s only logical to also provide a dictionary or at least some footnotes—that is, if your intention is indeed to communicate and you want others to understand what you’re saying…
In closing this, I do find Imants work interesting… but I’m not sure if it’s because of the work itself or because it’s created by someone I “know”…
I am pretty curious how Flash evolves in the next months and how much websites switch to other technologies.
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/googles-dont-be-evil-mantra-is-bullshit-adobe-is-lazy-apples-steve-jobs/
Cite: “About Adobe: They are lazy, Jobs says. They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it. They don’t do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.”
All this “Flash is evil” routine is ridiculous. The Web is awash with flash. Millions of people encounter it billions of times daily on the Internet. If it were causing all the mayhem some of these naysayers would like you to believe, it wouldn’t dominate the web as it does now. You can point a finger if you need someone to blame at people that run old browsers, or browser makers that have at one time or another dragged their feet for whatever advantage they thought they could gain, but Flash has been an enabling technology for the web.
HTML 5 is supposed to itself provide for more functionality in image manipulation, but I don’t see an effective replacement for Flash technology now. H.264 might be a better codec for pure video on the web eventually, but what are you going to do for other motion animation that you can instantly make universal?
MARK TOMALTY
i will give it a look…sounds good…it is just on the verge of being too wide for me in general, but i can see good use in Rio…i saw that M mount ring, but was only thinking Leitz lenses…anyway many thanks
“what are you going to do for other motion animation that you can instantly make universal?”
this is what makes me so curious for the next months to see what happens.
Who will finally succeed? Apple or Adobe.
For slideshows an alternative could be AJAX. That requires massive JavaScript to manage the slideshow control. Not nice, but doable.
An alternative is Apps, but that implies doubling effort if flash is still required for the main website.
If tools like slideshow pro will come up with an alternative to flash within the next months, this could create some of the momentum happening in the future, which I expect.
So nice the status quo might be, the web always orientates to the devices. iPad will be a device with many customers, so I expect movement here. I don’t know how this movement will be, but I cannot imagine, that websites just live with the fact they don’t show complete on a major device.
Well, of course there is still the possiblity iPad will fail.
but I’m not sure if it’s because of the work itself or because it’s created by someone I “know”…
==================================================================================================
T. :)
especially here on Burn that we are all photogs and not fans i can only see tough critique..
tough love… 90% of what most folks/regular viewers like…we/regular burnians that usually dissect everything because we ask “too much” , do NOT… not out of jealousy or empathy but we simply seek more..
we know the bar was raised so we expect more than the average…
So if “I” like something/essay/single is because its not just “good” but usually more than good…
if “i” dont like something is not because its not good but not good “enough” or not “great”…
In other words we have seen too much to like Imants just because he is Imants…imho
..therefore according to the above theory Imants’s work must be good “enough” or above average or simply great..
big hug
For me the measure of success for a piece of work is its ability to connect with an audience… but I do think it’s of utmost importance to actually try to convey what you have in your heart and mind that you feel it needs to be said, in a way that others can understand…
I respect your viewpoint Thodoris, but disagree wholeheartedly. There are plenty of other valid ways for people to create or experience art. Just as in all the other arts, there is a place in photography for the cold, the distant, the disconnected, and the meaningless, or at least for meanings that cannot easily be discerned or verbalized. And not all artists feel they have to convey what’s in their hearts and minds. The art is not always about the artist, nor should it be. The word for that kind of thing that fails is “self-indulgent” and there’s a lot of that kind of art about. Always has been, always will.
I’d probably agree that, on average, the best work tends to have those empathetic qualities that people here at burn, from the top down, seem to value most, but other viewpoints exist and can be equally valid. (and yes, obviously David and Anton recognize this as is demonstrated by the diversity of styles they publish)
Thodoris:
“For me the measure of success for a piece of work is its ability to connect with an audience and become the means of communication between the artist and that audience…”
You say it by yourself..”an audience”.. so which audience does Imants want to reach? I think a completely different than the work of the previous essay..
I have to say that both book proposals (to which Imants has linked to) work for me, reach me far more/better than the current shorter essay published, I don’t know if I would be able to explain why though..
If you, with your comment, want to say that the bigger the audience is that can connect to a piece of work then I have to disagree with you. Mainstream stuff reaches the masses, but does that mean there’s more quality? Or only that it is easier to understand, because it follows the rules?
“There are plenty of other valid ways for people to create or experience art. Just as in all the other arts, there is a place in photography for the cold, the distant, the disconnected, and the meaningless, or at least for meanings that cannot easily be discerned or verbalized.”
I think this is just a rationalization. The efforts of frustrated photographers who want to say with photography what it can never say, yet try to twist what they do into communicating things it cannot, because they can’t write prose or poetry. Imants seems to be trying say something with his essay that the medium can’t effectively communicate. Some people think the failure to understand the artist’s work is theirs, when in reality nothing understandable was said.
i just noticed that Steven Jobs used one of my photographs in his iPad demo…i will also check to see if he paid me….hmmmmmm
Maybe he owes you a free Ipad. :)
Jim and DAH,
Going back to the video camera posts, I’ve heard from several people that the Sony HDR-FX1000 is a great camera in the prosumer category. Anything less is going to put you in the family handycam category. The one drawback with the FX-1000 seems to be the sound. I am not a video guy (yet) but apparently there is some necessary gadgetry available to solve the sound issues.
I’m also looking for something that’s light, easy to carry around in the street, but also shoots great HD video. The Sony seems to fit these needs.
The one thing I did find out (and again I’m a novice) is that there are different video formats between the U.S. and many other parts of the world. Thus, living in Europe, I’ll probably be forced to purchase a camera here, rather than get a deal in the U.S. with the low dollar.
Interesting, not only the video, but also the comments to it and its content:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow/2010/01/david_gilkey_on_photographing.html
DAH,
A certain company may or may not have used your photo without use. Next step, I suspect, is that you ask your agency to look into it. If it is an unauthorised use then what?
For the benefit of Burnians, what would you suggest especially in a case where there is an unauthorised advertising use? Would ‘haste’ characterise your action?
Disclaimer: I turned to an intellectual properties lawyer concerning certain unauthorised advertising uses of photos. Oddly ‘settlement agreements’ are now my major source of revenue. New ways in which to support my documentary projects…that’s how I look at it….still, it is an emotionally draining process…
Doug
Eva… I do not value quantity over quality… I dislike (to put it mildly) pop music, blockbuster movies and pretty much anything designed to appeal to the lowest denominator… but, I also dislike “difficult” works that could have been “easier” without losing any of their integrity and are designed in a way to deter those who don’t have membership to that small club of intellectuals who pad themselves on the back for “getting” what the mere humans don’t.
Also, even though I think I know the type of teacher you refer to in your post about explaining poetry (and I too hated their classes), I was lucky enough to have *one* teacher who wasn’t bored of his work and still loved his chosen subject matter whose analysis of poems and prose only added to the enjoyment of the original through better understanding of the text itself (analyzing the style used, and elements such as metaphors and other figures of speech) and through providing contextual information about the author, his/her influences, under what personal and/or social circumstances was the work created in, etc…
In general, I try to understand myself and the world around me… whenever I fail to understand something I attribute this either to lack of education on my part (not only formal education but also life experiences/references) or to failure on someone else’s part to provide me with enough information/context to be able to make sense of whatever it is he/she is trying to say…
Thodoris; “I wonder, if the current essay was not signed by Imants but by someone whom you’ve never heard of before, would you all be so positive in your reaction towards it??”
Yes; that is always possible. But it is just as likely for any “big name” photographer or “art” photography too. You know; “X’ has been shot by “insert name here” so it must be good etc… I think that generally if people don’t like stuff on Burn they usually say so.
Cheers
Thodoris:
I thought Imants took great care to communicate his intentions. I detected common themes that were symbolically represented by the visual elements in each image and those symbols were woven together effectively to form the essay. The piece was very successful by your definition as i connected through the art to the artist. I listened to what he had to say as one can hear the voice of the ancients through the heiroglyphics left on their walls.
An artist does not have to leave a how-to manual. Merely an invitation to take the time and effort to engage. It doesn´t matter if we ¨get it¨ 100%. Each according to his/her own ability. Perhaps you ask too much of yourself and then become frustrated when the way remains obscure. Simply begin by looking, then looking again, then slowly, as you enjoy what you are looking at and let your eye travel over the rich imagery from corner to corner and back again, fast forward, slow it down, play it back, skip, jump, pause, you begin to see. And if you stay with it comprehension follows. To me that a-ha moment is very joyous, as if against all odds i managed to turn a flat two-dimensional work into real life. That´s what makes looking at art worthwhile to me. It is joy unbound. However art does ask the viewer to leave his fast food habits at the door. Art takes time but rewards our efforts so generously.
Best
Kathleen
THODORIS…KATHLEEN
both very well written and thought out pieces…just the kind of thought provoking writing and strong opinion i like to see…
Thodoris, I understand what you say.. but quite franckly, I have no idea if I “get” what Imants want to say (same goes with those poems I refused to listen to ;) ), and quite franckly, I don’t care at all. I could even arrive to say that if he’d explain his work I’d say, heaven no, you’re wrong!
I also have to say that I’ve been following for years now his work, I stumbled over him in some place on the net, so yes, to me his name means something, but it also means that I probably (and perhaps wrongly) have expectations.. something I try to avoid.. and am more critical, not less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQLtCoh5EaI&feature=channel
keep BURNING …life is short…and I am looking up…
as long as there is life…there is game…
I love you…MASS
So, Kathleen, you are saying that Imant’s essay, book, whatever, reveals some kind of profound truth that is worth the time to look at it over and over to understand it? I don’t get it. If he has discovered such a truth, it would be so much more useful just to say what it is, rather than clothing it in symbols.
As I’ve said before, all of this seems very pretentious. I know what’s in my head, I want to understand what’s in the photographers head. I don’t care what the essay means to me, I just want to know what it means to him/her. And I’m not much interested in digging through symbols to find out.
they are not photographs they are about photography.
Well, the ARE photographs Imants, maybe they are photographs about photography.
I think this is just a rationalization. The efforts of frustrated photographers who want to say with photography what it can never say, yet try to twist what they do into communicating things it cannot, because they can’t write prose or poetry.
Maybe that is often the case, perhaps, most often, but not always. Photographs are capable of communicating stories every bit as deep and complex as the written word.
I wasn’t addressing Imants’ current essay in my earlier comment, but guess I was taking up for the idea of it. If photography is an art, which I think is plainly evident, then it can do, or certainly attempt to do, the same things as other arts. Why not?
And much of classic photojournalism falls into my construction of cold, distant, disconnected and meaningless. In the textbook they teach, or used to anyway, that journalists should be detached, objective observers. Of course it doesn’t work out that way in practice because photographers are artists and photographs are capable of containing and conveying deeper meanings, but it bolsters my point that there’s no rule that photographers have to be particularly empathetic or wrapped up in the lives of their subjects.
The photo I linked to the other day is, I think, a fair example (Note that I’m not self-promoting here, just using that example because I have at least some idea of what the photographer was thinking). It tells a multi-layered story, much of which is difficult to verbalize. I was aware of all those elements when I composed it. I was, and still am, looking for images that tell similar stories. Even if more discerning folk elucidate valid reasons why that particular photo sucks (this is probably not the safest place to show a Spanish diaspora photo), I think it illustrates my point that photography can be cold, distant, and to some extent literary, just like most other arts.
So Imants, are you saying that none of the photography in your work is your own? It’s all collage?
No I am saying it is about photography the process
Don’t start from the standpoint of this is a photograph
Jim
¨reveals some kind of profound truth that is worth the time to look at it over and over to understand it?¨
A profound truth? No, i wouldn´t say that. But it does reveal what Imants wants to tell you. And maybe Imants just wants to tell you some superficial truth, or perhaps he wants to lie. Or maybe he just wants to suggest and let us do the thinking. It´s a personal experience instigated by Imants´ thought processes and design skills. He expresses, we listen. Then we respond with our thoughts, feelings and/or sensory feedback. With Imants essay i did not react emotionally and yet, uncharacteristically, my reaction refused to form itself into formal sentence structure. His mute but playful show and tell likewise freed me up to assume a different kind of verbal rhythm in my response.
You have mentioned that you have abstract art hanging in your house. I am intrigued about how you experience that art in light of what you have just written. Do you apply different standards to art then you do to photography? Because frankly, if we take the following paragraph and change it ever so slightly, it sounds rediculous coming from someone decorates his house with abstract art. Surely the artist did not attach a schematic drawing or written summary of his intellectual and psychological processes to the back of the canvas. Why would you hold an art piece that happens to contain photographs and other image devices to a different standard then you would your paintings?
¨As I’ve said before, all of this seems very pretentious. I know what’s in my head, I want to understand what’s in the [artist´s] head. I don’t care what the [painting] means to me, I just want to know what it means to him/her. And I’m not much interested in digging through symbols to find out.¨
IMANTS
I have seen you say several times that this piece is about photography. Something i confess i do not really understand but i will look again. I missed it the first 7 times around ;)
Best
Kathleen
Think what goes rthrough your head before you hold the camera then make up the rest http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
I clicked on the link and became lost in a cat´s eye maze as there was no slide show..something i did wrong perhaps? I am going to take a nap and the last thought i will consciously register before letting loose the ties that bind will be what i think of before picking up the camera and then i will make up the rest.
thanks, Imants..
k-
“You have mentioned that you have abstract art hanging in your house. I am intrigued about how you experience that art in light of what you have just written. Do you apply different standards to art then you do to photography?”
I absolutely apply different standards to photography than to abstract art. Abstract art to me is kind of like Banjo music. There’s no way to make sad music with a Banjo! Abstract art makes me smile.
But, my issue is not a pitting of photography against art. It’s those who try to communicate with photography ideas and concepts that photos are insufficient to convey that bugs me. I have no idea what Imants is trying to say “about” photography from his essay. Do you? Maybe he’s trying to say exactly what I’m saying about it. But I don’t have a clue. It seems more like he’s just trying to be enigmatic and “artsy.”
I recently went to an exhibition of one of NZs most well known documentary photographers. His style had changed dramatically from a purely documentary way of working to a more abstract style.
I viewed the exhibition once, wasn’t sure whether I “got it” or not. But it kept resonating in my head. I went back another couple of times and each time I understood more about it and appreciated it even more. Even now (about 4 months later) I still think about aspects of the exhibition. So to me; it succeeded!
I don’t want to put words in the mouth of my cuz from over the ditch but I feel that what always shines in Imant’s work is the sense of confidence and surety he has in his work.
Like I said earlier; I feel his work is visual poetry. How often do you see a poet write a description (caption) to each poem in a book? It’s usually left up to each reader to make up their own meaning, so why can’t photography be the same? The closest thing to an explanation I’ve heard poets give is the introduction to a poem at a live performance.
Text is a bit transitory………. book has about 24 out of 54 images, the boxed set will end up with about 7 to 9 the last slide show has one http://www.artouko.com/
Jim, you have a degree in English literature (as do I). Why do you always assume that a photographer couldn’t express himself in prose so he therefore turns to photography as his medium of confession? Photography, like literature, is its own truth. Neither Imants nor anyone else around here has some secret wisdom encoded in his pixels which the hapless Burn reader must deduce. Photos as literature, Jim. Try that.
Photos are not literature. Photos have limited ability to convey information compared to words. Photos need words to provide context.
Words have limits, too, Jim. It’s not all about “conveying information,” and context may or may not be important. There is a big difference, I assume you would agree, between a DAH photograph and some security-camera footage of the same scene. One possesses the truth of literature (or, if you prefer, the lies of literature); the other is mere data.
“Photos have limited ability to convey information compared to words”
As does abstract art, why have different definitions for a photo? :-) It’s all in the eye of the beholder…
Cheers
Imants, Jim..
i literally slept on the subject and when i woke up, this is what i woke up with. What happens before i take a picture is that there is a spark of recognition, or memory or association with something else that I have seen before. Not the entire body of subject matter sitting there but perhaps a texture, a shape, a hint of ancient bloodline in a face. But this flash of recognition, according to my data bank of accumulated experience and knowledge says take this photo now.
What i took away from the essay last night is that nothing goes away, it´s changed into something else..we don´t end, we go on and on. Well, maybe when that moment of recognition occurs that this is THE picture to take, not that one, not the other one, from this angle, not from the other side, well this might be triggered by a recognition that is actually ancient. We think it´s right now, we think it´s a product of our awake consciousness but it could be more like deja vu. Is it possible that this memory bank that guides our visual recognition process when we are taking a picture did not begin when we were born but long before that? Past lives before that.
Jim, i really think you do not give your visual memory bank sufficient credit that it absolutely is triggered by subliminal suggestion when we approach what we think is fresh visual subject matter, both our own and in the work of others. Photos are only limited in what they can convey by our openness to suggestion. I don´t subscribe to reincarnation. Not at all. But perhaps Imants does. Perhaps he sees memory as something that predates our birth. And whether he does or doesn´t, perhpaps it´s not such a bad notion to ponder when approaching art and photography. Perhaps it doesn´t predate our birth but we have certainly pácked a LOT of visual triggers into our subconscious since that day.
And ok, if abstract art makes you smile it´s because you are open to the pure joyous experience of the art. If you throw away the photography rule book that has kept you a slave to its mistique for all these years and you thrown down your crutch on words then perhaps photographs would begin to work on your mood and your imagination as art does. Banjo music optional. :)
Ross…well said, both posts..
best to all
Kathleen
Eva… “I could even arrive to say that if he’d explain his work I’d say, heaven no, you’re wrong!”
I agree… probably more often than not, the intentions of the creator don’t much the audience’s perception of his/her work… but I still feel the need to connect and if at all possible to also understand the work at hand… it’s ok if I don’t “get” parts of it, but it’s frustrating to not “get” most or all of it…
I could have raised similar points for a couple of other essays in the past, but I didn’t “know” the photographers so I admittedly dismissed their works as either too esoteric or pretentious… but Imants I actually kind of like—as much as I could like some weird guy I’ve never met… so my question remains… what do you “see” in the current presentation of his coming book??
Kathleen… I appreciate your suggestions, as to how to approach art, even though in parts it sounds like the instructions I’ve received more than once in order to find the hidden shape in those 3D trick-pictures—something I seem to be unable to do… and to be frank I have the same “problem” (of not “getting”) with abstract paintings too—referring here to what you wrote to Jim…
Goodnight guys…
Kathleen that’s the point that some miss the transitory nature of things, too many chase a finite legacy for themselves.
Photos have limited ability to convey information compared to words.
That’s crazy talk. Even common wisdom recognizes that photos can effectively convey information, often more effectively than verbal communication. Someone remind me. A photo is worth how many words?
Sure, a single photo is unlikely to have as much to say as a good short story, much less a full length novel. That’s why they invented photo essays and photography books.
There lies a dilemma Theo…….. the book binds the images into a sequence that created a thread. A boxed version allows images to be added and frees the “book” from a static beginning and end but destroys the works original intent.
The boxed version would allow one to add their own input and that includes images of one’s choice
Thodoris
Goodnight and thanks for opening up a great discussion..it was very positive and thought provoking. I wasted..er no, spent my entire afternoon mulling it over. Maybe all you need is to become really really great friends with an art lover who also knows a lot about the subject. And become exposed to it more often. That´s what happened to me. My world and my mind opened up like the big bang theory and i have never looked back. I think we all have it within us to experience joy and profound insights from art. As my drawing teacher said when i moaned that he should give up on me, everyone gains something from drawing. Art is not just for the so-called talented or elite. It´s for all of us. Like dancing and music, we can all appreciate and enjoy art.
And Imants,
thank you too, for your essay. i just love what you´re doing..i love the intelligence and patient process you bring to carefully and succinctly express your thoughts, both in writing and also your visual imagery. I think like we are fortunate to have Civilian with us, and for different reasons obviously, we are fortunate to have you here. You both give great balance.
What happened to my day? aaargh..
best
Kathleen
Imants..
One last thing:
¨Kathleen that’s the point that some miss the transitory nature of things, too many chase a finite legacy for themselves.¨
By transitory, you could also say spiritual, sensual, magical. By pursuing the finite or static, we miss the lyrical.
bye!
spiritual, sensual, magical and intuitive (i should have said)
A photo, or a whole series of photos, can describe, but can’t explain. Photos are always subject to interpretation. A writer can say with clarity exactly what he means. Words can both describe and explain.
A writer can say with clarity exactly what he means.
Yea? Tell that to Thomas Pynchon. Or William Burroughs. And what’s all that discussion about in lit classes? Everyone just agreeing with everyone else?
Plenty of photos describe an explain. Advertising, for example. Or wedding photos. It’s usually pretty clear what those things are describing and explaining. Or well-made portraits. Hey, whaddayaknow, here’s one!
And the subject of Robert Frank’s American photos comes up a lot around here. They do a pretty good job of book-length describing and explaining.
“Photography deals exquisitely with appearances, but nothing is what it appears to be.” ~Duane Michals
“Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it.” ~Hannah Arendt
Michael, Robert Frank’s photos explain nothing. They are clearly ambiguous. He seemed to understand that ambiguity. Many were moments in time as people and events moved past him. Frozen in a moment.Who were the people he photographed? We don’t know. What happened before and after that moment? We don’t know. We have Frank’s vision as an artist, we have description, but not explanation.
Michael
Love your posts..you make me laugh..
:)))))
kat
I understand there’s a secret handshake, too.
Who were the people he photographed? We don’t know. What happened before and after that moment? We don’t know. We have Frank’s vision as an artist, we have description, but not explanation.
Really? I thought Frank’s photos explained a lot. But either way, how’s that different from, say, Keroac, Henry Miller, or any number of writers who have chronicled “Americans?” Visual explanations are different than verbal ones, but both means of communication are inherently abstract. The Arendt quote Bob provided nails it.
Thanks Kathleen. My little jokes get me in trouble more often than not.
JIM..
you wrote:
“Photos are not literature. Photos have limited ability to convey information compared to words. Photos need words to provide context”
Certainly this is true in the context of your newspaper and mass media in general and is the mantra for photojournalism…but even in this statement there is a contradiction…”photos are not literature” does not equal “limited ability to convey information”…please remember that not all words are literature….and literature does not necessarily convey information ..therefore not all words have the intent of conveying information…nor do all photographs…some photographs have description as intent, some do not….sometimes words create mood and the intent is to stimulate the reader into thinking more, not simply to distribute facts….same with photographs…as we move forward constantly with the growth and intent of photography, the most astute photographers today must employ a visual literacy to their work…didactic description being only one use or intent, but surely not the only one..
do you think Gregory Crewdson, Roger Ballen or Jeff Wall need words to set the context for their photography? perhaps an artists statement could be appropriate, but certainly the photographs do not need captions to let us know what is “happening” in the image…as a matter of fact, a caption would ruin the photograph imo for any of these above photographers and for many others as well…
my point is the opposite of your major premise…
words do not create the context for photographs…rather the context dictates the need for words
and what happened to a picture been worth a thousand words?
the picture got posted to flickr michael, and all the words became real..
¨great capture¨
¨wow¨
¨love this¨
and so on..
:o/
Visual literacy? Do not need captions? “A matter of fact? Come on, David. You know better than that. Most of the thousands of images the average person sees in a day are distortions of reality. They are carefully constructed lies. Intended to extract from them hard earned cash. Just as Crewdson’s “photos” are lies. Folks need captions just to know if what they are seeing is real, these days. But that has nothing to do with my point.
Photos without context are ambiguous. If you are an “artist” and ambiguity is your goal, as Imants goal seems to be for his essay, then there you are. If you want to inform, though, photos are not enough. They are moments ripped out of time and context. And can become even dangerous propaganda without that context restored with words.
I’m not at all saying I don’t like to look at photos as artifacts. I do very much. I am saying that a group of photos strung together cannot tell a complete story, and a photo essay’s ambiguity only increases as time and historical context change. Photos from the Vietnam era mean something very different to me who lived during that time than to a 20 something today. They do not need explanation to me because I read the words and listened to the newscasts at the time. The photos from that war, though, can only say “war” now. Only words can restore context.
Frank’s photos did not tell the story of America, only a story of America. And not one that would have been comprehensible to me as an American when I was growing up. In the small Texas city I grew up in until I was 16, America was no melting pot. It was white and middle class. His photos are interesting as artifacts, but tell me little about America or Americans. For that I need words.
utterly irrelevant to the conversation.. anyway – there has never been anything but photography for me.. in work, in life.. it´s been a constant companion and way of learnign about myself and the world i inhabit.
sometimes, though, photography feels like an affliction – the ´everything´ which is difficult to explain to those who do not know, and to my young family who cannot survive on long term projects and pixels alone.. being poor was always a small price for me to pay.. yet now it is too great a sacrifice to ask others to make.. yet there is nothing else i can do, being mind-altered by many years of survival budgeting.. plans made without the need for consideration to others.. flippant decisions easily put into practice with only myself and the resulting work to consider.. inviting random happenings and allowing myself to float down whatever stream took me.
since it is all i have ever done, it is now all i can do.. times are very tough right now.. life in this new city has not gone to plan.. teaching work, expected soon after moving here 6 months ago, is long time coming and money runs out of hand like water.. and so i´ve applied for more than 50 jobs.. fish factory.. waiting.. washing up.. anything to keep tor capa in nursery and nappies while i get to grips with the cities photographic opportunities. even a sturdy non-skilled job would bring about a project, i´m sure.
i´ve been unsuccessful with with every application.
at the one interview i did get for a ¨McJob¨ in the service industry the guy asked me what i love about photos and my thoughts exploded in animated passion.. i did not get the job.. in fact he seemed utterly bemused as to why a 37 year old with a full history working freelance as a photographer would want the job he offered..
and so – day in day out the photo taking continues.. this project is becoming a study of the ¨groundhog day¨ of a photographer in hibernation.. winter has always been such a quiet season.. pitches for work and prospective projects are piling up in mind and on my flickering computer screen.. invitations to some of my favorite music festivals are coming in and i´m doing the sums and the thinking to see which are affordable (need profit now) and which will fit into where i want my work to go (no more hard-house nights in oldham please).
there is so much i need to do.. every effort brings new goals to mind.. while my personal life and new family deserve much of the waking moments which previously were spent on working..
i know there is a way through the current moments of numb hibernation and cannot wait to be out there again – in the spring / summer when plans will bear fruit.. for now though.. old photos.. memories.. photocopies of moments past torment the present and nag at me for every hour i feel like i am missing something great..
anyway – not to tempt fate – i have an interview on the 3rd for photo lecturing work in our new city .. the hope is that this terrible itch will get scratched good n proper, and the affliction will again feel like a gift.
Hi all,
I wanted to let everyone know that we are offering two new workshops in Romania.
A documentary workshop in rural Romania in April and a street shooting workshop in Bucharest in June.
Details are here:
http://luczakowskaellicson.blogspot.com/2010/01/documentary-photography-workshop-in.html
and here:
http://luczakowskaellicson.blogspot.com/2010/02/street-photography-workshop-in.html
davin.
the first one seems very reasonable for what you´re offering..
good luck.
Jim where did I write that ambiguity was my intent? you made that up to suit your argument. If it is your inability to read and think visually then you are forgiven
the thing is this – photography can take us on a journey just as music can take us on a journey.. music can tell a story.. needs to tell a story without words.. photography is the same. we can comment and write about single images like notes on sheet music, yet as a whole, they have the limitless possibility of our own extrapolations..
¨bitches brew¨, ¨aura¨ or any of miles davis work would suffer for written explanation.. i´d hate to see weather report over intellectualized with context.. coltrane sounding good and inflicting a mood on us is the best it gets.. why not with some photography too?
¨writing about music is like dancing about architecture¨ – elvis costello..
sure – some photography reports and requires more context .. although that is not the case for all desperate kinds of photography.
no point biting into an onion and complaining it does not taste like an apple.
disparate.. not desperate :)
and with imants work – it´s obvious, through teaching n writing text books, that he must be capable of simplifying complex thoughts ..
the fact that he chooses to allow us to unravel his work for ourselves is at the least a sign of understanding relative reality, and at best it could be a compliment of sorts to the viewers intellect and imagination.. there are no wrong answers..
at the least we can´t we all enjoy a bit of intrigue?
statements with over explanatory intentions take us viewers to be muppets.
charlie brooker on the i´pad..
^Some people are complaining because it doesn’t have a camera in it. Spoiled techno-babies, all of them. Just because something is technically possible, it doesn’t mean it has to be done. It’s technically possible to build an egg whisk that makes phonecalls, an MP3 player that dispenses capers or a car with a bread windscreen. Humankind will continue to prosper in their absence. Not everything needs a 15-megapixel lens stuck on the back, like a little glass anus.^
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/01/ipad-therefore-iwant-why-idunno
camera yea!!! http://www.iamparanoid.net/
-love it
-great capture
-super photo
-please submit it to our group pool ¨yea camera¨
(flickr friends, ad nauseam)
a group of photos strung together cannot tell a complete story, and a photo essay’s ambiguity only increases as time and historical context change.
True, but a group of words strung together cannot tell a complete story either, and a written essay’s ambiguity only increases as time and historical context change.
Of course different forms of communication have different strengths. A photo of a rock, for example, cannot tell us that it went on display in a museum in 1873. But then a written description of a rock cannot communicate what it looks like as well as a photo. And a lot of a photo’s ability to explain depends on the education of the viewer. While that picture of a rock might not explain much to you or me, it no doubt explains a lot more to a trained geologist.
On another note, I thought I’d share this little observation, which is germane to some of our ongoing conversations and strikes me as consistent with many of David’s observations. I read it in The Onion of all places, in an interview with Harrison Ford in which he’s talking about how he prepares for his roles. Just substitute “Photographer” for “Actor.”
…anonymity is the great gift of life, and that for the actor and the anthropologist , to be able to observe without affecting the circumstances they find themselves in is the ideal. Sometimes you get to know people well enough that they go back to being who they really are. And that depends on time, and the nature of the person you’re dealing with. The corollary to that is that people, when you’re representing or talking about something that’s really important to them, give you extraordinary access to their experience, are very willing to give you their time and their energy in pursuit of an ambition to tell their story.
When I go through your photo essays…I usually:
meditate, absorb, reflect, compare, philosophize…
and I drink my green tea and I am eating orange cake…
the rest…I leave it …to my soul …
my soul is doing the searching…the filtering …the final accepting scene…
BUT
what do I know…I am just a civilian…:)))
P.S KATIE, can you please dedicate your first book …
to BURNing Civilian …
Thank you and love !!!
Thodoris:
“..I still feel the need to connect and if at all possible to also understand the work at hand…”
well, we have also to acecpt that not everything is for everyone.. we can’t do more than try, look, listen, feel, go back, and go back again.. but sometimes there’s only silence.. I love music, but I will never understand or like Béla Bartók.. every now and then I try, challenge myself and think that with aging perhaps I’ve learnt something I missed when I was younger.. as for today to no avail..
JIM…
we will just have to agree to disagree on this one….i do not know how i could be any more clear…YES, to captions for your newspaper or for Natgeo….NO, to a mandatory caption for other kinds of work…
photographs can just be photographs for heavens sake…all by themselves!!!
one last personal example, my photographs which appeared in Natgeo on Cuba had captions of course…to explain….those same photographs “strung together” (not in chronological order) in another medium (Div Soul) did not have captions..yes, there was an overall context set up by my forward, but it was very esoteric compared to the original more utilitarian use…but, why would all photography have to be “storytelling” or utilitarian?? and Robert Frank did not “capture America” as a catalogue of America intended to portray America so that everyone could relate as you could not….but the cohesiveness and strength of his vision was the “message”…
of course Jim, i know what you mean for the mass media….however, my guess is that 90% of photography has nothing to do with the mass media…
a late Frank photograph…..
supply the caption….
a late Frank photograph…
supply the caption
http://www.desordre.net/photographie/photographes/robert_frank/words.jpg
http://thatsanegative.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/sick_of_goodbys.jpg
i’ve seen both, first hand…..at bulger’s show of frank’s late work…
Bob, caption for the first photo:
“Robert Frank printing money, Mabou Nova Scotia”
Bob, caption for second photo:
“Robert Franks bellybutton”
Robert Franks “Lines of my Hand” is one of my all time favourite books. Alas, I do not own a copy, but there was a well thumbed one that used to reside in the library at Simon Fraser University which you could check out, back in ’79 anyway.
gordon! :)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Frank quote:
“When people look at my pictures I want them to feel the way they do when they want to read a line of a poem twice.”
“A writer can say with clarity exactly what he means.”
I wish.
Akaky: what do you mean?
;-)
My 2 bob’s worth..
So what I read in this is, .. what is important is the context images are displayed in.. is what matters as far as captions or the need for added words is concerned.
So obviously, one dose not need captions in a family album, generally speaking.
Another example might be the same photo used in a different context; say , a photo of the planet earth taken from outer space. One context for that image might be about the physical beauty of this planet earth, in which no caption is needed, and another context might be about how it was taken, there fore a caption could explain that it was taken by a Japanese astronaut.
Unless it was taken in a studio in California. ;)
BOB.. great analogy. Franks words..
Its all like music. Some music is added to by words, and other music would only find it a distraction to have words added..
Skepticism is never ending..
Jim.. Just realized that, that was a joke.. Its difficult to read your words accurately here sometimes, maybe if we had a photo of you smiling might help..
Ummm, Jim, you’re not one of those who believe the moon landing was faked in the Mohave Desert are you :))))
check it out, kids!
magnum archive to be open to public
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/arts/design/02magnum.html?hp
quote from article:
In the middle of December two trailer trucks left New York City bound for Austin, Tex., packed with a precious and unusual cargo: the entire collection of pictures amassed over more than half a century by the Magnum photo cooperative, whose members have been among the world’s most distinguished photojournalists.
…….nothing like truck full of egos with eternity firmly focussed.
Imants: they are just prints…
The egos don’t travel in the back of a truck…
;-)
Nah, Gordon, I believe Nikons and Hasselblads really did got to the moon! :) Oh, yeah. The astronauts too.
Now, I never really understood the point of going to the moon, but as a 19 year old watching that first moon landing on TV, it was exciting.
John it’s the 21st century ………… it’s time for last centuries lot turn to move towards the back of the truck
Jim
I was working at a camera store at the time. The day of the moon landing, my boss took the day off and took screen shots from his TV of the landing.
Remmember the Hasselblad ad from the era, “suddenly, there was a Swedish sattelite in orbit”? Inspired by the fact that an astronaut let a Hassselblad get away from him on a space walk one of the orbital missions.
During my camera store days (McBain Cameras, Edmonton) we could take home gear on the weekends. I remmember taking home a Zeiss Contarex bulls-eye one time. What a ridiculous huge clutzy camera that was, but I recall that the pix taken with that 5omm planar were about the sharpest I can ever remmember taking with a 35mm camera. One of its unique features (other than the fact that it about the same size and weight as a medium format Hasselblad), was that like a Hasselblad, it had interchangable backs that you could switch in mid roll.
Ah, the olden days.
Eddy Merckx won his first Tour de France that summer of the moonlanding. Now THAT was news…
Imants: agreed…
Imants: but they are still kicking…
Yep we can hear them from the front
Happy birthday Mr. Vink.
Brian: thanks but don’t rub it in too much. I might end up in the back of the truck…
we surely all will..
John V; The back of the truck ain’t a bad place to be. As long as you’re with a bunch of good mates and a few cold ones!!! :-)
Eric Espinosa, if you are out there amigo, you convinced me. The carwash is going into the burn mix for consideration shortly, except in black and white. First essay submission here. Down to 50, still too many … okay, now 49 … so hard to trim the last batch objectively but still easier than writing a statement … now 48. We shall see what happens …
Some of us are still on our backs under the truck trying to figure out how to make the bloody thing go!
Is it really your birthday today JV?
Glenn: tomorrow. But forget it. I try to.
Broken axle
…then again maybe the diffs had the Richard
Happy birthday JV…:)
over “here” is already “tomorrow”..or maybe not?
big hug
JV Happy Birthday Mate , I’m a february 3rd 1970 boy myself!
ok..Glenn…
happy birthday to u 2..
( u asked for it )
big hug
:)
LASSAL HAPPY BIRTHDAY …sorry I am late
JOHNY …JOHNY VINK …HAPPY BIRTHDAY…intolerance:)))
BRYAN HARVEY …must be a BURNIAN too…HAPPY BIRTHDAYYYYYYY
GLENN …hey mate…HAPPY BIRTHDAYYYYYYY
and to all the BURNIANS that I have missed their Birthday… everyday is OUR birthday
I will be back …with more info…to celebrate…
What have I become??? OIME !!!
ohhh…did I tell you that I stole the above info …from the facebook…
the Birthday BURNIANS…please proceed to the BURNing aisle for your cake…!!!
P.S where is MARCIN, EMCD,ABELE, AUDREY, HAIK, TOMH, MIKEK………..myGRACIE
KATHLEEN FONSECA…I found a name for your book…” MY BURNING LANDSCAPES”
Ouzo time
Mr. Vink, Happy birthday and to answer your question, no, I dont know what I meant either, nor do I understand the US Tax Code (who does?), mathematics, the finer points of Christian theology, or who appinted Punxwatawney Phil as the go to rodent on American meteorological matters (he saw his shadow today, so we are getting six more weeks of winter, something I figured out for myself with referring to the dubious expertise of an oversized rat).
I will take the same as AKAKY’S
From the NPPA:
“The Magnum Photos archive collection, which contains nearly 200,000 original prints of photographs taken by Magnum photographers over the last 50 years, will be preserved, digitized, catalogued, and made accessible to the public now that it’s been purchased by computer mogul Michael S. Dell’s investment firm and trucked to the Harry Ransom Center at the University of Texas in Austin.”
http://nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2010/02/magnum.html
Michael Dell can’t run his computer company… I hope he doesn’t screw this up.
hey all
snowing in belgium and completely unrelated to the converstation going on here:
i think i found yet another way to keep the pressure going to produce more images and writing
a mailing list full of what-not-to-love BURN people pulling my sleeve just might do the trick, and force me to tell more stories, show more images, dig even deeper and …
prove me right, prove me wrong, sign up if you dare… i just might make it worth your while ;)
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/01/31/ways-of-keeping-up-with-me/
hugs to all,
anton
All, equally unrelated to the conversation going on here, as Anton, I wanted to let all know that finally I have my new web site: http://www.jorgeprat.com
Please feel free to visit. All comments most welcome.
thanks
Jorge
hey Anton, can you shut doors and windows, please, that white stuff is leaking south! ;)
should you run out of things to do.. what about a burn version for mobile phones?
Jorge, can the pictures be seen only in fullscreen mode?
Okay it’s my birthday today, Feb. 2nd.
46. Up all night with a baby with a cold. SWAT team outside the house last night (potential hostage situation down the street). Man I’m feeling old. :)
love ya all,
CP
Oh and I’m having lunch today at the Phnom Penh Noodle House with a good friend. Wish I could join you Mr Vink for the real thing. Happy Birthday! (though their Battambang noodle bowel is pretty dang good)!
Oh and I’m having lunch today at the Phnom Penh Noodle House
————————————————————-
aha…in Seattle…i think i was there about a year ago….
if my memory serves me well…
happy birthday Charles……
:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Eva: yes, only in fullscreen mode.
thanks
Jorge
46… CHARLES…pfffff…. just the beginning …
too much partyyyyyyyyy…oime!!!
as PANOS said…happy birthday CHARLES…:))))))))))))))))))))
I hit 47 in a couple of weeks. i just realised that in another 3 years I’m eligible for 50+ (senior citizen type) insurance…. Where have those years gone, I’d love to say I’m older and wiser but hate to lie!!! :-)
riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs……
and it is Mr Joyce’s birthday as well…
“…withOUT the dubious experience of an oversized rat.” I must learn to proofread.
I should point out that it is not my birthday and today is, in fact, nowhere near my birthday, which is something I am pretty happy about.
enjoy
War Photography Sontag vs Nachtwey
War Photographer Nachtwey pleads for a man’s life
A message from James Nachtwey
u probably watched that before but so what?
watch it again
PART 1/10
Speaking of Sontag; To many this may be heresy; but I’ve always found her writings on photography to be a case of extreme navel gazing and over analyzing… But then I’m no intellectual… :-)
PANOS,
While on the subject of Nachtwey, I remembered this post on the Rangefinder Forum made this past summer:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75961
War Photographer – James Nachtwey (part 10/10)
last part
everyones fav ZORIAH.. diving, freefalling, base jumping extreme sport, fingerless leather glove and war fan (donations please through his website)
is offering the chance to photograph the death and destruction in haiti for only 4000 usd each.. (excludes things and other things)
http://www.zoriah.net/blog/2010/02/photojournalism-workshops-haiti-earthquake-intimate-group-workshop.html
to quote a comment given when he posted his own ´war photographer´ documentary on lightstalkers, i´ve just been a little bit sick in my mouth.
DB,
urghhhhhhhhhhhhh.
What a parasite. The troubling thing is, I guess there is a market for it. The complexities of human nature??????????
Ian
workshops seem to be his survival work – beggers in india.. aids orphans.. and for such inflated fee´s.. really inflated fees compared to many snappers.
if this, along with his personal ´donations´ button on his website, is how he survives i don´t like it at all..
a friend just told me he has deleted the thread he started on lightstalkers for his war photographer film.. which is a shame.. it was hilarious.
Zoriah is f..king idiot.
His is not the first workshop in Haiti ………. slum tourism will be back with vengeance, that’s why the PJ tourists went in first.
it´s the most expensive by far i think.. more than twice what andy levin is asking, and andy was already going over to do workshops with haitian children.
maybe this year i´ll do a music festival workshop.. 7 days in croatia.. including festival pass and accommodation.. programed tuition for a group of 10 for 1500 each.
i bet i´d have trouble filling the places..
photographing celebration just does not make the photographer look gritty and ´serious´ enough..
David, do it, I think you’d get a lot of takers if you market it right. Nothing cynical in that. A chance to have a great time, hear some great music, smoke a few fat ones, soak up some sunshine and photographic tuition. I think you’re onto a winner. I might even be able to put you in touch with a tour operator to sort the logistics.
Cheers
Ian
Still can’t remember where I put the camera……… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRUUWjCWTOQ&feature=related
Zoriah!!!???
like SIRIUS or OSIRIS or JESUS..???
the most “acclaimed” ? number 6 after Nachtwey and Capa?
A living legend?
why nobody told me anything?
i feel left out
David i agree with Ian.. why not?
nothing wrong with having a good time..
Zorian, Levianian, Devianian….
they all sound the same to me…they are just young souls…hmmmm…
BUT FOR YOU MY BURNIANS…MY TRUE BURNIANS
A Hard Rain’s A-Gonna Fall
Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, where have you been, my darling young one?
I’ve stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains,
I’ve walked and I’ve crawled on six crooked highways,
I’ve stepped in the middle of seven sad forests,
I’ve been out in front of a dozen dead oceans,
I’ve been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard,
And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, and it’s a hard,
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.
Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it,
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin’,
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin’,
I saw a white ladder all covered with water,
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken,
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children,
And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard,
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.
And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son?
And what did you hear, my darling young one?
I heard the sound of a thunder, it roared out a warnin’,
Heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world,
Heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin’,
Heard ten thousand whisperin’ and nobody listenin’,
Heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin’,
Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter,
Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley,
And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard,
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.
Oh, who did you meet, my blue-eyed son?
Who did you meet, my darling young one?
I met a young child beside a dead pony,
I met a white man who walked a black dog,
I met a young woman whose body was burning,
I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow,
I met one man who was wounded in love,
I met another man who was wounded with hatred,
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard,
It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.
Oh, what’ll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what’ll you do now, my darling young one?
I’m a-goin’ back out ‘fore the rain starts a-fallin’,
I’ll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest,
Where the people are many and their hands are all empty,
Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters,
Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison,
Where the executioner’s face is always well hidden,
Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten,
Where black is the color, where none is the number,
And I’ll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it,
And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it,
Then I’ll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin’,
But I’ll know my song well before I start singin’,
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard,
It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FriUd27sBCA
hmmmm…go figure
P.S PANOS… and to all my Greek friends …THANK YOU
VIVA !!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8492000/8492777.stm
hey y’all….
At 7:30pm meeting Nikos economopoulos at his home/studio…
( the heart of magnum in grecolandia )..
watch another edit of the new book…have some wine…
Either way i’ll hit u up with an update later on…
big hug
(Audrey I havent forgot your request…dont worry)
DAH:
Do all Magnum photographers directly benefit from the $100+ million dollar sale of the print archive?!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aT3azruCPKhc
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/arts/design/02magnum.html
panos – enjoy..
ian.. cool.. i´ll expect your deposite :ø)
davin..
nono – i think most of that´s gone into the pot for emerging photographer 2012 and david & antons wages
the remaining balance is to be spent on fine cake and creamy red wine.
.. and fine cake.
DB, not me I afraid the crunch is crunching at the mo. Trying to encourage sponsors for a project, and also get some editors to commit. If this all comes off then I might just take a holiday with the family in sunny Croatia :)
hmm.. i think that´s the trouble.. anyone who enjoys the occasional shandy will have their concerns elsewhere..
good luck with the pitching..
Oh man, who brought up this Zoriah guy? I went to his site and now my whole day is ruined. What a fucking creep. Everything, from the one name to the testimonials to listing every little client who’s ever bought a $5 stock image of his to the Haiti workshop. Twisted ego maniac. He actually epitomizes everything Jim rails on about here. Yech.
well.. he bought himself up first.. then second.. thirdly it was zoriah that mentioned him… and finally my friend, who i like laughing about him with..
soz..
It really is amazing that just when the photo, print and publishing worlds are tightening their financial belts, DAH and Burn are expanding their horizons with corporate sponsored essays and increased funding for the EPF! What do they know/do that the more traditionally-minded don’t? I’d say it has a lot to do with dreaming big and busting your butt to make it happen.
Actually I’m hoping to have some work myself to submit to the EPF this year. It will be my first try.
Next week I’m off on a photo shoot that I’ve been planning for a year and am VERY excited to immerse myself in! I’ll be leaving wintery Detroit and going off to stay for two weeks with my dear friends Scott and Phil who live in San Diego. These dear guys been together for 21 years and married for 3. I plan to get as up-close-and-personal with them as I did with myself in “Falling Into Place”…and Scott and Phil are totally up for it. Hey, we are so close I can follow them wherever they go, including the bedroom and bathroom. Lucky me!!! We see this project as a way of “normalizing” gay marriages in people’s minds, in essence showing that gay couples are just like every other couple. Yes, I already have a point of view — mainly because I know them so well — but I’m sure there will be lots of surprises.
Actually I’ve already started this project in a small way. I took two days of pics when they came to Detroit for a family wedding in October and might also be using some pics from a visit I made in 2007. I’ve just gone through all those pics and am finding myself drawn to b&w instead of my usual color. Change is good for keeping one’s eye fresh.
Regarding my efforts to get “Falling Into Place” accepted by a book publisher, things are moving along slowly but (hopefully) surely. My task has been to get pre-orders and interest among disability groups/organizations so that a publisher will see a tangible reason to invest in the work of an unknown photographer like me. Keep your fingers crossed because I currently have a deeply committed advocate working from the inside of the largest Multiple Sclerosis organization in the US. But bureaucracies are bureaucracies and everything takes time. I’m finding that taking the pics was the easiest, most delightful part of this project. But with DAH’s encouragement and undiminished determination to see “Falling Into Place” become a book, I’m ready to do whatever it takes to make it happen!
Patricia
Patricia,
Good luck with the new essay about your friends. Looking forward to it. And by the way, every photographer has a point of view. No problem with that… not for me anyway.
“I’m finding that taking the pics was the easiest, most delightful part of this project.”
You’re a true photographer then! Heh-heh. It’s the “business” aspect that trips most of us up! Ugh.
Sincere luck to both endeavors.
Cheers.
-M
Gwan pat.. great to read you for the first time in a while..
stick at the book and it will work out, i´m certain..
really happy to hear that you are tucking straight into something fresh.. just brilliant..
stretch that comfort zone my dear :ø)
looking forward..
d
David B; “along with his personal ´donations´ button on his website, is how he survives i don´t like it at all..”
Yes; he does sound like a bit of a creep! But is a “donation” button on a photojournalist’s website such a bad thing? I’m speaking in general terms here, not about the Zoriah guy. Is a donation button any worse than having a company/private person sponsor a project? I mean, there is a donate button on Burn, which by the way I totally agree with.
If you are a pj/photographer/journalist and the public believe you are pursuing worthy projects and are prepared to donate; it may just help those projects be realised??? I think Michael Yon was one of the first to use this donation model.
As for the workshop; why not? You may be surprised in the interest, there are always people looking to get away to different locations?
Cheers
hi ALL
was just at David’s – he says hi – no wireless right now at the loft and he is busy as a bee – but says hello.
I love this video! Z O R I A H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Erica, if you’re still there, i just spoke to David briefly and lost him… He said it was a busy time.. Tell him I’ll talk later and If he has a moment, call me back at his convenience. Or I’ll just talk to him later…
Just heard back.. he’s a busy dude! Hi everyone!
So I’m so out of the loop again, School started and I’m buried in classes all over again. having a small show next week in a small gallery on campus. Will be receiving my order of film and supplies this week so I can continue on my projects… I’ll have updates… on twitter now
JasonHouge
Have a great night everyone!
right, am not there..the man is like flash lightning
Back in 2008 I got so pissed off by Zoriah’s total disregard for ethicical journalism
that I created a blog called “Hard Times Going Down the Road”
http://pomaracommentary.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/is-zoriah-miller-a-cause-celebre/
There are only two entries. I was just so put off by his methodology that
I could not go any further, but it remains out there for any and all to see.
OK lets move on.
CIVI:
Stay alert, North GA BBQ images coming your way.
I finally met Col. Poole at the Taj Maj Hog!!!!
and the Hog Hill of Fame!!!!
Next will be the Pink Pig, Jimmy Carter’s favorite
near his Walnut Mountain Retreat. What a perfect
world: Conservative and Democrat BBQ within spittin’
distance.
WNTL
Update from the meeting with Nikos Economopoulos ……
( first of all , Audrey not only your wish is granted but Nikos is sending u a signed book..)
Now after two hours of chatting, philosophizing and editing i got a strange invitation from Nikos..
or should i say, A DREAM COME TRUE…
Nikos asked me ( gave me permission, allowed me..a gratis…anyway u wanna call it ) to go with him and shoot in
BEIRUT for one week, next month( march )… im so honored… its 3:46am in grecolandia and there is no way i can put myself to sleep..
Beirut with Nikos…( i know he is not as experienced as Zoriah but hey…what can u do…laughing )…
There are some parts from the conversation that i soooooooo want to share…but i dont know where to start..
forgive me ,im just excited …not bragging..just overexcited..
ok..back to regular programming…
big hug from grecolandia
i forgot to mention..
DAH, Nikos is sending u greetings… he is excited about Burn , your vision and how u pulled it through…
( i havent given up on persuading Nikos to do an assignment exclusively for Burn… still working on it and believe me.. even if it will take way more time for the above to be realized i will do my best..)
now..
HAIK if u r reading this plz EMAIL ME asap..Nikos need some help..
one of his hard drives ( seagate on a MAC ) just failed and we need to recover the files/photos..
i will also send u an email with more details tomorrow…
big hug
& good night from grecolandia
Panos watch those Grik guys………. one eye sleeping one eye watching, easy on the ouzo.
Panos, the way to recover those files is to restore them to a new drive from his backup. You are going to tell me he has no backup, of course. And that’s just stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. In case anyone isn’t offended enough, let me say it again. People with important digital files that don’t have a backup (several backups, in fact) are idiots. Fools. And worse. Offended yet? Good.
Jim you failed to back up your gene pool ……don’t have a backup (several backups, in fact) idiot. Fool. And worse. Offended yet? Good.
Panos… Go brother go!!
Imants
That´s one of the funniest things i have read in long time.
Jim
Is your name Haik?
sheesh
An interesting recent Don McCullin interview;
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/arts_entertainment/don+mccullin+a+life+in+photography/3524842
An old McCullin film;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8471292.stm
easy on the ouzooooo…
Damnit BURNIANS…as long as I live …I will LOVE you all…yes, and you JIMMY…
KATIE…I believe in you.LOVE
IMANTS…where is my book???:)))
ROSSY…you are such a surfer …:)))
ourPATRICIA…you are the mama inspiration!!!
PANOS…where can I send the tsipro…and the wild pig…
MR.ECONOMOPOULOS…you rock!!!
BURNIANS…I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
civi
MR.HARVEY…can I say …you are one of a kind…geez…!!!
SPEECHLESS…
ANTON…keep it up…you are my boy!!!
Smile PHOTOPHILOSOPHERS
¨i had this thought
that when you died
all the good shit you´ve done
is magnified
and you´d get
you´re favorit cd´s
for 1.99
¨i had this thought
that when you died
all the good shit you´ve done
is magnified
and if you told a lie
then you´d be denied
you´re favorite cd´s
for 1.99¨
(we show up on radar from the album i wish i was a small car)
MORNING HAS BROKEN:
jim – you need to back up
(full stop)
found a good wprdpress template which some might like – modeled on boston globes BIG PICTURE:
the title and photos are temporary while i decided what i´m going to put there and change about the colours and the like..
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpbigpicture/
Davin
Reducing conflicts and wars to just action fields is unacceptable for me, especially organizing a weekend schools there. I am very polite person mostly, but I will repeat now; zoriah is fucking idiot.
Bowen, love those pics :)) what a flashback … the dudes reading the newspapers was at a rock festival? too funny. But even better, you turned me on to a simple wordpress template with big photos, finally! Thanks man.
i´m not sure what to use it for though tom..
single randoms from the past life.. dunno.. it´s fun though..
uploaded a few more.
the big chill festival is basically ´london visits the countryside´.
i once stood at the front of the crowd between acts and shouted ´tristen?´ to see how many tristens would turn around.. lots did.
Panos, Nikos Economopoulos,
Thank you so much, I do not know what to say and how you thank… maybe I can to send you a very good french red wine ? you’ll like?
Panos, I’m really happy for your good news…
Thanks again !
Audrey
David B,
the blog title is absolutely great… ;)
David Bowen. Looking good. We must have crossed paths at the glade at some point. I was running welfare in the big red marquee that looked like a brothel at the top of the slope. ‘TEA AND EMPATHY’. Putting all the acid and ketamine casualties back together again. Had to wear earplugs to get any sleep. I did the first 3 glades and then couldnt take it any more. I was probably the only completely straight person in a five mile radius. Bizarre!
Ross. Don Mccullin is probably my favorite photographer. Along with phillip jones-griffiths they had such real feeling in their work. Inspirational.
john
abele :ø)
perhaps i´ll keep it…
Panos…
Regarding recovering files from crashed HD…
I recently had the same problem with my PC and I solved it (with help from a friend) by connecting the damaged HD to a netbook running Linux… not sure if it will work the same with a HD from a Mac but if you want more info you can Skype me… (also did a post about this a couple weeks ago…)
David B…
It looks cool… I’ve being thinking to add something like this to my website too, for all the pictures that just don’t fit in a themed gallery, for some time now…
i think it´s great for singles.. and people like to subscribe to photo only blogs.. even a chance of building a narrative over time i guess..
i don´t know what to do with mine as yet, although it will probably become part of the book micro site i am building right now… just want to make sure it all works and is formatted how i want – thus the playing about i´m doing right now…
wordpress is amazing.. only used it for the first time yesterday and 10 mins later had two blogs up and my old blogger.com files transferred to here http://www.bophoto.co.uk/wpblog/ (an edited version of the k2 template burn is created from..)
i know i am way behind with getting to know wordpress, but it has opened up methods for doing need to do straight away..
great, free, stuff…
and it´s free, being of no cost and free.
POMARA…I just read your post…
I AM ALERT mate…I am just waiting at the back of the truck…
DAVIDB…kiss TORCAPA,BEATE…keep shooting…can I have a piece of cake too!!!
THODORIS…VIVA!!!
cakecakecakecake for EVERYBODY..
magnum has spent 1 billion on cake and it´s ours for the eating.
civilian no book
DAH,
there’s an essay on Lens blog about family albums…
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/essay-12/
Thodoris…
thank u…im in athens couch surfing with no laptop..
cant use skype..but in a couple of days i will skype for details
or email me instructions please..
Panos, the way to recover those files is to restore them to a new drive from his backup. You are going to tell me he has no backup, of course. And that’s just stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. In case anyone isn’t offended enough, let me say it again. People with important digital files that don’t have a backup (several backups, in fact) are idiots. Fools. And worse. Offended yet? Good.
————————————————————————————————————-
Jim i do agree…laughing..no, not offended…Nikos has 3 back ups of everything as u suggested…
those files to be recovered is not really “important” work..just fun family photos..very very recent..
the HD failure happened couple weeks after the download when (irony) he was trying to back up…
again, according to him just a few family fun photos needs to be recovered…no worries..
In fact i do stupid things too…i shoot then download in the laptop for a week and then when i go back to “base” i back up…coz im afraid to carry hard drives around while travelling… shit happens..stuff get stolen or break though, u have to admit..
big hug
Panos, if the drive is spinning, what he needs is a program called DiskWarrior. If it is not working mechanically, he’s hosed (though there are folks that will attempt to restore hosed drives for a couple thousand dollars).
Michael.. yes the drive is spinning
Often with hard drives it is the interface, or the firewire or USB connectors. So you just take out the hard drive out of the box, put it into another one and the sweating is over more often than not.
LaCie for example is using very good hard disks but they fail very often with the rest.. I have had 3 or 4 LaCie disks not working. I put thelm in another housing and everything is fine again…
John..
first thing we tried yesterday was exactly that…new housing.u can hear the spin but..
need to try disk warrior indeed..its just i dont have those software with me here in grecolandia…
plus disc icon does not appear on the desktop anymore…
Panos, you can also try booting from the install disk and running Disk Utility. You have to click through a few screens, then you get a Utilities menu at the top and Disk Utility is under that. Don’t go so far as to do the install. And btw, all Mac owners out there should have DiskWarrior. Panos, you should get him to order it.
michael…u r right..
i think i have it install in my mac…( but i dont have it with me )..
Disk Utility didnt help ..try it..
i mean i “tried it”
thank u though
Panos,
I had a hard drive go on me once, alas with a lot of original RAW files. The only way to retrieve them was with a PC using DOS – thankfully my wonderful wife who works for MS knew what to do. Somehow the disc directory/formatting got totally screwed and my Mac wouldnt recognize at all and DU didnt help or disc warrior. After I retrieved the files I pulled the discs (an early 1tb which was two linked discs – probably part of the problem) out of the box and used them over again. So before pulling them find somebody who knows DOS with a PC and try that.
CP
Oh, and it took about a week to retrieve them all. Very slow process. You’ll find something like disc warrior excruciatingly slow as well depending on the disc size. Good luck. Real bummer and why I now have multiple back ups.
PANOS..
i am editing your Greek work….supposed to fly out tomorrow from DC to Rio, but weather reports of heavy snow indicate otherwise…this means i may actually finish your edit sooner rather than later if stuck in my hotel for a night or two…the Greek Gods are making their decisions…
cool deal with Nikos in Beirut….
yea, i back up everything minimal three times right off the bat…on to two portable drives at least, and to my computer…
ABELE…
thanks for the tip..i will check it out….
Jim must be out backing things up………….
Funny all this talk of backing up… I had finally saved up a couple of hundred dollars to spend 3 or 4 days shooting in Wellington for the kids project. I’ve had all that work on one drive only, and have always worried about losing it.
Well Seagate 500gb drives were on special for $99 and I made the decision that backing up was more important than the few days shooting… I’d hate to have lost all that work; so I at least have it on 2 drives now.
John G; Me too :-) McCullin always seems to possess such humanity and humility..
It’s always good to have someone watching your back up. After all the trash talk about Lacie drives I believe its time to run out and buy another Back-up to back up my Lacie’s.
Good read
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/essay-13/
wow… Salgado is working digitally… the world is ending!
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/ME8SRS20TB64/
$270. Not bad at all for 1TB redundant storage.
Scratch that previous comment. That was for RAID 0, not a redundant RAID 1.
RE: How many photogs does it take to document a disaster? Check out Lens blog…
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/essay-13/
I must say I got the creepy-crawlies when I saw pics of a pack of photogs focusing on a woman who had just been rescued from the rubble in Haiti. I know they’re just doing their job, but it looks like a feeding frenzy. For those of you who have been in such circumstances, how does it feel to be a photog in such situations?
A quote from Christopher Anderson bears repeating:
“I have never felt comfortable covering natural disasters,” he said.
“Wars and other types of human-made tragedies are different. There are questions of right and wrong, justice and injustice, political complications, et cetera. I feel like my voice as an observer has a purpose.
“But with an earthquake or tsunami, I don’t have a purpose. There is no need for explanation or contemplation. There is only the immediate need for the news photographers to go and report what has happened.
“I am not a news photographer. I would just be composing pictures of misery. Not to mention being another mouth to feed and another camera in the face of someone who has just lost everything. In the days and weeks immediately after something like this, all that matters is that the news pictures help drive a response of aid. I didn’t feel like there was anything I could add to that. They didn’t need me getting in the way.”
marcin luczkowski
February 4, 2010 at 5:11 pm
wow… Salgado is working digitally… the world is ending!
——————————————————–
ok..i promised myself two things i discussed with Nikos i wont make it public…
now im im breaking the rule…
First..we had a long discussion about film vs digital.
He also mentioned Salgado btw..( in a very positive way )..
thats why im “biting”on Marcins worries above…
Nikos told me an anecdote about his last workshop in Instanbul…
To make a long story short he told me about a student that he was about to enroll ( and eventually didnt )
because he requested to have a personal b&w printer a chauffer and a hairdresser…
( ok , im kidding about the chauffer and the hairdresser )..
but Nikos made a point so very clear..He said: “some folks aare trying to hide their ignorance and lack of talent” behind excuses like that…
“ohh i only shoot Leica”
“ohh i only use film”
“ohh i only use Tri-X..Delta is for amateurs”
“ohh i only use Rodinal”
“ohh im a purist”..”Im this . Im that…I’m Beyonce..I’m Madonna..i only use microphones gold plated..”
etc..etc..etc…
“…people forget Nikos added that the most important thing is what in your frame..regardless if its a holga…a leica..a zeiss…a pinhole…or whatever”
In times like this with all of our enviromental problems and global recession is just silly to use “silver” or paper or chemicals..chemicals…of any kind… pixels are not that innocent either..dont get me wrong but think about it..when the average photog cant find enough resources to feed his/her own family…then why pay so much extra for film and chemicals when u can use the same flash card for fraction of the money????
Listen up all you Pricesses out there…put some food on the table for your kids first and then go by your Rodinal..wake up…
On the other side if u can afford all that..go ahead…do it… who cares..but please,
pretty please dont try to convince the rest of us that your (5*7) prints are that much better quality wise coz you cant convince nobody no more…
Majoli and Pelegrin did their best work so far on point and shoots “cheap” cameras…
its whats in the frame…end of story..
and obviously Salgado is not that stupid either..
So Marcin :)..
its not the end of the world ( its just the END of the OLD world as we know it )..
its the BEGINNING of the NEW WORLD..
welcome to the 21st century… ( gasoline will be relaced soon btw with cleaner forms of energy )..
i know it sounds like sience fiction right now…but trust me ..it will happen , sooner than some of us expect, wish or want…
( but its also something else-my opinion- some folks love doing magic tricks..love alchemy…because it makes them look “smarter” and “deeper” in the eyes of the ignorant crowd..these type of photogs i call them “the Politicians” or “ignorant cheaters” )
and to make things clear..
Im not calling a PRIMADONNA every photog that uses a darkroom…
of course not…never that…
im calling a PRIMADONNA only the ones that try to convince the rest of us that film is “better”…
the ones that consume their efforts and energy to the “perfect print” of a “mediocre photograph”..
thats whats silly…
david alan harvey
February 4, 2010 at 2:33 pm
PANOS..
i am editing your Greek work….supposed to fly out tomorrow from DC to Rio, but weather reports of heavy snow indicate otherwise…this means i may actually finish your edit sooner rather than later if stuck in my hotel for a night or two…the Greek Gods are making their decisions…
——————————————————————————————————-
ha ha…. yes the greek gods are working for me…but the same fucking gods are unaware of my newest, more recent, freshest work…god damn it..:))))))))…but its ok..lets go with what we have , right here , right now
big hug…(Rio can wait)
hey I can live with being a “ignorant cheating alchamist ” don’t mind being a PRIMADONNA but omit the DONNA… it is PRIMANTS
prImants…:)))))))))
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
“ignorant cheating alchamist ”
Alchemy = “attempt to change base metals into gold” C’mon Panos; if I can accomplish that I’m sure you’d be on the next plane to NZ for a cut of the action! Just don’t tell uncle Imants, he’d be over here faster than a robber’s dog…. :-)
Alchemy = “attempt to change base metals into gold”
————————————————–
in our case…
Alchemy = “attempt to change Silver into Mediocre prints”
haha…… God save the Queen…i mean god save the silver…
:))))))))))))
First..we had a long discussion about film vs digital
———————————————————
Second.. nah nah..i aint going there…
Panos; since it’s a bit quiet; here’s a tune for you. Old Crow Medicine Show; they’re playing in NZ at the moment!
ok…the “Srcond” taboo we “touched” upon was the “future of photography”..
but i know nobody cares about that subject..
enough of me ,talking,already..
:)
music??? aha…here is a greek band i shot last night right after the meeting with Nikos..
the video gives them no justice..ladies and gents..
DEUS EX MACHINA
Ross..
this one for u.
Deus Ex Machina
once again..
greek punk…didnt expect this right?
Panos; Sweeeeeet!
Here’s the young fellas in the local band I’ve been shooting off and on for the last 12 months.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPcbwyNwSaA
Off to shoot a “Pimp and Hoes” themed birthday party tonight, should be interesting!! :-)
Ross..
dope!!!
ok…3:30am in grecolandia…
time to go hide on that couch that a friend offered me for the night…
viva greek hospitality…viva generosity..i wish i could pay back in this lifetime though..
karma? i was probably mother teresa in my ex lifetime..
cant explain it otherwise…
big hug burnians…
i need some rest..my head is burning
Ross – that McCullin link was interesting on so many levels.
Always preferred McLuhan to McCullin
@ Alchemy = “attempt to change Silver into Mediocre prints”
I’ve always thought the important thing was to be able to “tell shit from clay”.
If you can manage that it’s onwards and upwards.
“some folks aare trying to hide their ignorance and lack of talent” behind excuses like that…
I agree Panos,
I try work digitally last one and a half year and I have nothing to show. It is enough time to prove the lack of talent.
Beside photographic talent it is not only a framing but also how you work with people and I do not work with people at all. Your social skills are the same important as visual.
I don’t know where the hell you all find the time to keep such long running discussions going on here, but I see that there has apparently been a good one going about film vs. digital, tri-x vs whatever and so on.
It looks like a fun discussion, but I don’t have the energy to weave my way back through all the posts to pick up on the related ones, but I will give you my perspective on the matter, not that it matters and probably but few will read it.
Basically, I built the first two-and-a-half decades of my career on black-and-white, mostly tri-x, but also t-max 3200. This was not my intent at the start, but I simply could not afford color film. Plus, being kind of a jack-of-all-publishing-trades, I made my career producing one-man publications that served first the White Mountain Apache Tribe in Arizona and then the Alaska Native Eskimo, Indian, and Aleut communities in Alaska.
I did all of these publications in black and white, and I came to love it. I took one color break early in my career to shoot a three-part spread for National Geographic on the White Mountain Apache, but after that I just settled in on black and white film and kept my work pretty much to the small publications that I either created or took over and remade in my own image.
Because I was always doing everything by myself, from the photography, the writing, the design and production, I was always looking for ways to simplify the process and give me greater control over it.
So, when digital technology began to appear, I watched it’s growth very closely. I was not impressed with the first, $20,000 + 1.5 mp cameras, but the moment I saw a scanner on the market that looked like it could do the job, the Leafscan 45, I bought it, even though there was no printer in Alaska that had the capability of producing an offset publication digitally.
Amazingly, right after I bought the scanner, the printers that I normally used bought a digital system and so I was able to create the first all-digital offset publication in the state.
But the scanner was so damn slow. Later, I bought an Imacon but it was awfully damn slow, too. So I kept watching the digital cameras.
Finally, in 2002, Canon came up with the D60, which was marginally on the edge of being workable.
I purchased one, then set out on my first shoot with it and a Canon E0S – 1rs. My plan was to shoot half digital, half film, see how it came out and then convert everything to black and white.
I never even developed the half of the shoot that was film. I have been all digital since.
And pretty much all color.
I have no desire to shoot film ever again. None at all.
And then, just over a year-and-a-half ago, I took a bad fall off a rolling chair and shattered my right shoulder on the floor of the Barrow High School cafeteria. Two cameras fell with me – a Canon 5D and a Canon 1Ds III. The fall put the 5d out of action, but I protected the Ds III with my arm and shoulder (how stupid is that – destroy your shoulder forever and run up $100 grand worth of medical bills just to protect a $7200 camera).
A nurse tried to take the Ds III away from me before I was loaded on to Lear Jet ambulance for a $37,000 flight to Anchorage, but I would not let her.
I kept that camera on my chest and, using my left hand, photographed my medivac as best I could.
I determined then that I would take pictures every day, no matter what and I did, even though I went through two surgeries and wound up with a titanium shoulder, even though I could shoot only with my left hand.
After about a month of this, my kids teamed up and bought me a Canon G9 compact camera – a bulky pocket camera. It was a lot easier to handle with just my left hand than was my Ds III.
Now I can shoot with both hands again and I can handle the Ids III.
But I am in love with pocket cameras now. I shoot them 90 percent of the time – right now, I use the s90 most of all.
It can’t match the DSLR’s in so many ways, but there are ways that the DSLR’s cannot match it, either. I can hardly even stand to carry a DSLR anymore. You have to think a lot differently when you are shooting a camera that can only get one exposure off every 1.5 seconds, vs. 5 or more, that gives you only marginal control of focus and that has a 35 mm equivalent range of only 28 – 105 mm.
It is a lot of fun.
I will not say that I will never shoot film again, but it is kind of hard to imagine.
bill – you illustrate exactly why the discussion between film n digi is irrelevant..
it is so very subjective and depends entirely upon what the photographer is trying to achieve, and what they enjoy or are able to do..
both methods are towards an end result, and that´s the bit of the equation which counts.
poached fish or grilled.. both delicious.
Panos,
and I would like to add that I could say “wow… Salgado working with color… the world is ending!”
PANOS. your friend said “Nikos added that the most important thing is what in your frame..”
trouble is he’s totally wrong!
Its how you translate that into a print that says what you wanted it to say.
Its the decisions you make, before, during and after you frame up the shot.
Its how it makes you FEEL!…..THATS the most important thing.
everything else is related to convenience and economics.
Its also about the value we attach to our work. Not its monetary value, which is entirely false, but how we value them as individual objects that have meaning TO OURSELVES.
I dont know about you but I make thousands of prints, both digital and wet, and have boxes and walls and portfolio books full of them. I do the work myself. I post proccess and print(mostly) the digital work. I develop and hand print the silver(always).
Framed and matted you cant tell whats what. They all look great.
But heres the thing…The digital prints mean nothing to me. could quite easily just burn them all down. wouldnt bother me at all. Press a button and back they come, every one a perfect clone. As an artist how can you place a value on that? Destroying a fine hand print feels like murder. It can never be re-made identical. It has a part of the maker in it. it has care and love and time.
Its NOT about which is better, of course its not, its about what makes you FEEL that you have made something that YOU care about.
JOHN (not enough coffee yet :) )
All,
Watch videos on Amazonasimages about work “genesis” especially the last one. My God! What a scenes! There are pictures who made them itself. I am able to imagine how I work there, how I frame!
And Panos, this is a truly talent! Be somewhere where pictures made themselves. If you will have boring life you will have boring pictures.
¨If you will have boring life you will have boring pictures.¨
isn´t it true.. boring people are the ones who say they are bored..
David,
Isn’t it the same?
Damn! I missed a discussion on whether film or digital is better?
Ach, we all know film wins out anyway ;)
vicky – excellent use of irony..?
:ø)
Heh, but I’m right, aren’t I?
:)
…. i think ¨both¨ is the only right answer :ø)
Alleged censorship towards local photographer in Haiti:
http://www.rsf.org/US-military-must-explain-why.html
PANOS…
please give us your latest Greek work…i have edit down pretty tight…but, there is no rush to publish…
I try work digitally last one and a half year and I have nothing to show. It is enough time to prove the lack of talent.
—————————————————————————————————
nah..do not worry Marcin…i was definitely NOT referring to you…
You , especially you have tons of talent.. Its just that you are
“darker” than Kafka…
big hug
I think that if true that article raises some disturbing questions about the american military presence in haiti. It seems to parallel their behaviour at the airport, with regards to flight access, and the expulsion of journalists from there. I do hope that some of the ‘higher profile’ photogrpahers and journalists there are covering this.
I kept that camera on my chest and, using my left hand, photographed my medivac as best I could.
————————————————————————————————–
Frost..what a story..i would love to see that as an essay somehow..your story remind me of Capa’s death…with his camera in his hands…
but you are still alive and thats great news..big hug
and I would like to add that I could say “wow… Salgado working with color… the world is ending!”
————————————————————————————————
laughing…noo no..im not gonna bite on this one Marcin but i will answer with Frostfrogs words:
“…Basically, I built the first two-and-a-half decades of my career on black-and-white, mostly tri-x, but also t-max 3200. This was not my intent at the start, but I simply could not afford color film….”
david bowen
February 5, 2010 at 5:18 am
…. i think ¨both¨ is the only right answer :ø)
———————————————–
absolutely true…
I dont know about you but I make thousands of prints, both digital and wet,
—————————————————————————-
i’ll tell u about me..simply cant afford that and being homeless for a third year in a row..
couch surfing my only closet is a laptop…laughing..big hug
But heres the thing…The digital prints mean nothing to me.
————————————————————–
John? but why?( i think u r referring to the value of the post processing work )…like i said , if u can afford it be my guest…:)))
Framed and matted you cant tell whats what. They all look great.
——————————————————————
this is exactly the point i was trying to make..and this is where David B nailed it..
“both is better”..
big hug
and i totally agree with u with the “unique-ness” of a handmade print of course..
david alan harvey
February 5, 2010 at 5:55 am
PANOS…
please give us your latest Greek work…i have edit down pretty tight…but, there is no rush to publish…
——————————————————————————————————–
Well here is the thing…im in athens (Mustaches capital of the world, aka grecolandia)..couchsurfing,
no laptop to download, no worthy internet to FTP, not even photoshop to resize the photos….hopefully i will travel up at my fathers house (north west) but im trapped here..A big strike here in greece ,from desperate FARMERS have blocked all the major roads that connect athens with the borders/balcans etc..literally i cant go north…its a mess…
so two solutions..we either wait till after u come back from Rio…
or we publish what we have and edited so far as PART 1…and then continue with part2 etc..
It is up to you..im happy with both “solutions”
( ha, now i made look like its your problem..)
biggest hug and dont worry..snow will melt..Rio is waiting..
PANOS,
I am trying to reach you. Farmers decided to back up …I mean back off…
I was hoping to meet you tomorrow but I am leaving for Salonica …
the key is under the pot on the table…the other key is on the side on the window…
you can stay there…
give me a sign…you are unreachable…!!!
photographic talent it is not only a framing but also how you work with people…
Marcin, that’s one kind of photographic talent, and it’s a very good one, but it’s not the only one.
MR.HARVEY,
may the spirits be with you…safe travels…don’t forget the sunscreen, glasses and hat…
and lots of water…hmmm…or whatever makes you happy :)))
and BURNIANS… don’t give up …don’t back off …
now, it’s the time to stay strong…and be strong …
if YOU can’t do it…then WHO??? who…the civilians???
COME ON BURNIANS…
Panos,
“nah..do not worry Marcin…i was definitely NOT referring to you…”
But I was definitely referring to myself. And my life is look like from Dostoevsky’s books right now, not Kafka I suppose :)
And my comment was not about digi-analog issue. But about Salgado’s way of working.
I don’t know about better, but harking back to a discussion we had awhile back, I’m more and more convinced that color is more difficult. I was at a predominantly photo bookstore yesterday and I’d say at least 80 percent of the titles, probably closer to 90, featured black and white photography. And perhaps it’s just me being shallow, but I generally didn’t find the color work to be very interesting, save one. So if color photography itself is not inherently uninteresting but it’s apparently difficult for publishers to find interesting color work, then logic suggests it could well be more difficult. Though I guess it could just be a question of popular taste and not related to difficulty at all.
Personally, that goes against everything was taught and have experienced, but the numbers are suggestive.
Michael, i believe that the “audience” has learned to accept the B&W as “art”…
thing is that everything started as b&w..for years and years b&w was the norm..the professional way..the status quo..same as film…for some, “color” same as “digital” as not artistic enough…not “serious” enough…same as putting frames on the photos in a gallery…but those “codes” are getting out of the way by the newer generations…
my granpa used to say..
” ah they dont make cars the way “they” used to..”
“ah they dont make cigarettes they used to…”
“they dont play soccer the way they used to..”
“the new generation does not have the respect we used to..”
“they dont make watches the way the used to..”
“they dont make film the way they used to..”
now…my granma used to say………………”ahh they dont make men they way they used to…”
but i still havent figure the latter one out..laughing..
big hug
PANOS…
ok, will think on that one…yea, i do have to move on getting to the airport now…and hope i can get out….snow,snow…..anyway, will contact you from Rio…..no rush..just get us the photographs when possible…check out Roger Ballen just up…
DAH…
getting “lost”on the RB essay/book now..many thanks..travel safe amigo
david and pano, i was teasing :)
though i mostly use film i also use and enjoy digital, there is no ‘better’, just the right tool for the job.
One of the biggest problems in discussions about equipment and workflow is the fact that most people can’t actually have a personal opinion about all the options out there, and therefore when they come into any such discussion they do so trying to convince themselves and everyone who cares to listen that their camera/lens/film/developer/paper/enlarger/memory-card/software/screen/printer/workflow is the best there is…
thodoris you are right..
once you settle into a way which works for you, any discussion becomes somewhat redundant.. and most pertinent discussion could revolve around people with similar working methods exchanging idea´s on the ´how to´ and so on of their chosen technique.
particularly with digital i think there is still a great deal to be learn´t from exchanging ideas – this kind of tech discussion does not get reached while ¨which format is ´better´¨, (digital or film), is the level.
hmm.. it seems that the u.s. military is warming to the idea of being in control of haiti as much as helping them, although it might sounds premature to be saying it on the back of a single report..
Thodoris..
true
DavidB (about military)
i think this is already been done since france decided that they robbed enough and left..
ALL
Roger Ballen himself will be reading the comments for any questions you might have…. Please post them in the comments underneath his essay!
We’ve waived the one comment rule for his essay, so feel free to ask a question…
Over the next few days he will be jumping in from time to time, this should prove very interesting…
I for one, am looking forward to it….
cheers,
anton
panos – god bless the colonial empire..
they neeeeed blessing.
i mean to say – an empire and a world war screwed england for the next century..
followinf the roman empire came struggle..
russia.. oh dear..
and the quietly discussed tibetan empire of millenia ago.. well.. they retreated into obscurity for the next millenia..
so.. god bless the colonial empire.. because they need it
:ø)
anton..
thanks.
DB…yup..
:(
ANTON – are you running davids facebook page?
Marcin
“Beside photographic talent it is not only a framing but also how you work with people and I do not work with people at all. Your social skills are the same important as visual.”
Yes!!
John
“The digital prints mean nothing to me. could quite easily just burn them all down”
It depends on your point of view. Most of my personal work over the past 40plus years never got past the contact sheet stage. Simply no time or energy to print them. Digital has been freedom.
As far as print quality, they are different, but both can be awesome. There is certainly infinitely more control with digi, and as far as d-max choice of substrates etc, digi wins hands down. I printed colour for more than twenty years. Absolutely to contest there. Digi prints now better C prints in all parameters.
To be sure, it requires a lot more effort to produce a traditional print, which is where your attatchment comes from. But perhaps the image is more important than the process. The fact that photographers like Joel Meyerowitz and others are re-printing much of thier lives work digitally speaks to the superiority of the process.
It is certainly not really “easier” to produce good digital prints. It is in fact much harder. There is so much more control that it is overwhelming. It is not as craftsy as locking yourself in a darkroom and doing hands on. However the same arguments used to be made by painters when photography was invented.
I’ve still got two enlargers left up in my storage room that I havn’t been able to part with. Who knows, maybe I’ll dig them out one day and set up a darkroom again.
…….. DAH ………..
saw your note about the snow – i sent you an email with photos in case you have time
or maybe you’ll go make snow angels instead :)
jeee…sorry to bother everybody….
new invitation from Nikos..
21st February..going to Instanbul by train..7 days..
a gratis workshop..
thrilled
greek gods are really working…insane
Panos,
Good for you! Enjoy istambul, beautiful city.
Who is coming over tonight???…
I am drinking wine and I’m eating bread and tzatziki (garlic stuff).
PANOS…I am telling you dude…the spirits are with you …with ALL OF YOU
CAN YOU HEAR ME BURNIANS !!! I LOVE YOU BURNIANS !!!
Panos, what goes around comes around………..
Good for you, you are on your way…. it seems to me that you have mellowed abit since being in the land of the grand moustache.
Happy travels
ian
Panos if you have abit of free time you might want to check out
http://www.worldbeardchampionships.com/
Ian
Ian..true..
i think im getting older…
(still laughing with those mustaches/beards champions)
the spirits are with you
———————–
im afraid that usually are IN me…:)
It had to happen. I was finally jumped by gypsies today her in Bucharest. Gone are: $100, debit and credit card, Leica M8.2 and 35mm f./2.0, Canon 5D MKII and 35mm L lens and Oakley sunglasses. I was treated and released and spent the rest of the day at the US Enbassy.
damn man.
forget the brands –
injured? okay?
Davin – very sorry to hear that. You are okay other than the substantial loss? I do hope the equipment was insured.
I think you should apply for this, no reason why you wouldn’t do well and it will take your mind off things:
http://www.fotofestival-hannover.de/bewerbung.html?&L=1
application for the freelens award
We again invite young photojournalists to the 2nd Lumix Festival for Young Photojournalism to compete for one of the 60 photography exhibitions and the FreeLens Award endowed with 10,000 Euros. Furthermore two »Honorable Mentions« including prize money of 1,000 Euros each will be awarded.
Until 28 February 2010, young photographers up to 35 years can submit their reportages, photo essays or series (i.e. portrait series) with journalistic character.
application for the lumix multimedia award
For the first time, Panasonic donates the Lumix Multimedia Award at the 2nd Lumix Festival. The best multimedia productions will be shown on the festival and the winner will be awarded with 5,000 euros. Just as for the FreeLens Award the photographer must not be older than 35 years and the body of work needs to be of journalistic nature.
Davin
So very sorry to hear about the assault and loss of your gear. What a terrible blow. i´ve been robbed here a few times (once had a pair of Oakley´s ripped right off my face), but never, knock on keyboard, lost my camera. As you say, it´s bound to happen but one prays it never does. And one always, always feels a kindred suffering for another photographer who has not been as lucky. I second David B´s question, are YOU ok? I mean, beyond the shock and trauma of it all, which will leave you in a pretty shaky state of mind for awhile´i´m guessing. Were you hurt? beat-up? God, i hope not! Things can get really messy during these muggings, particularly for men. I wish you some kind of optimistic resolution. I am so very sorry this happened. This wrecked my night :((
Best
Kathleen
Davin,
sorry to hear you lost all your gear. Especially if you have so many plans with Aga. Hope you will be able to renew your equipment soon.
best
Davin, sorry to learn it…
All, Hello ! and hope all are OK for you…
camera dealers robbed me many times in the past …
( and then i discovered b&h and ebay )
Lesson to learn from Davins lesson: go minimal..
(as we advised in the past)
one camera/one lens is more than enough…
only a soccer stadium is the right place to walk around with all sorts of gear hanging all over u…
only a soccer stadium is the right place to walk around with all sorts of gear hanging all over u…
—————————————————————————————————–
ahh and a wedding…
Lesson to learn from Davins lesson: go minimal.. What no condom?
ahhh…condom , sure…but the one with stripes for extra pleasure…
Ok… could someone please explain the current essay to me?? Honestly…
Just like with Imants work—and Peter Joel Witkin’s for that matter—I can easily perceive the mastery of the photographic process but I completely fail to “get” the work *at all*… the farthest down the road of this conceptual/constructed type of photography I can follow someone is Duane Michals… beyond that, I fail to see what is that so deep and important thing/thought/feeling that the photographer feels the need to express through these grim, multilayered, overly complex semiological constructions??
Unless of course, someone had a totally f@#%ed-up childhood/life, and he/she tries to exorcise their demons through constructing and confronting their visual representation and/or communicate some sort of a kinder spirit “you’re not alone” kind of thing to others with similar backgrounds—kind of what some of the artists who survived the first world war did…
wow you see my work as grim……….. what about all the bright positives that abound. Where did you get the photographic process as a structure idea from? ………….. maybe you will have to learn to read visually
Imants…
Don’t take my words above as a critique… I’m honestly looking for a way in… of course, being able to understand your work doesn’t necessarily mean that I will like it more, but I nevertheless do want to be able to understand it…
Imants. surely you mean -‘maybe you will have to learn to understand MY visual language’ :)
thodoris. Have no idea if the ‘fucked up past’ idea has any relevence to ballens work, maybe you should ask HIM. He is after all dropping in to ask questions, and one such as that would seem way more pertinent than the ‘whats your favourite colour?’type. But in certain situations it can produce very powerful( if disturbing) results. On my site (in portraits) is a picture of an artist in his studio, surrounded by some of his work.
There are some more here http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_adam-aka47/sets/72157603707880975/
I buy many of his paintings and have quite a few hung at home. You cannot believe the darkness this guy has been through.(I have been in dark dark places, and I believe they are kindergarten compared to where chris was taken) The point is, that he manages to translate his nightmares onto canvas in a way that is accessible, although difficult to view for some. I think for some artists it is cathartic to commit that kind of disturbance onto their chosen medium.
………. never saw it as a critique. try this http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
I lost everything once. I was moving from the east coast to the west in a Volkswagen Kombi and it caught fire. Turned out I had time to get my stuff out, but I’d seen too many movies and was expecting a giant explosion, particularly when I saw a line of fire come out of the gas tank. The explosion never happened, but I don’t regret not risking my life for a bunch of stuff. Even though it was all of my stuff. I lost my computer, all my disks, all my backups, all my paper copies of everything I had written, my passport, all my sentimental knickknacks, letters and such, my stereo, all my music and all my clothes. You probably don’t realize how expensive clothes are until you have none. Or how much all those albums and cd’s cost when considered as a collection. For at least 10 years after, I’d suddenly find I was missing something and realize it was lost in the fire. Nevertheless, it was just stuff and I slowly got more stuff. So Davin, I am sympathetic based on experience. I know that no words can make you feel better, but I offer my little story nevertheless. All we can do is move on. If we are skillful, we can learn some valuable lessons and move on.
I’m still going back to Marcin’s comment that suggested good photography requires good people skills and that he is pessimistic about his photography because he lacks those people skills (if I read that correctly. If not, sorry). I find that almost as disturbing, if not more so, than Davin’s lost equipment. Seems Marcin is in danger of losing a different kind of stuff. More valuable.
I’ll just say again, there are plenty of photographic opportunities that do not require great people skills. Vision is more about the photographer than the subject. Alienation, for example, is a valid subject and it can be communicated, perhaps should be communicated, without a lot of human interaction. Or maybe you think that life is but a joke and want to communicate that? Might require people skills, might not. Whatever. Nothing wrong with people skills and empathetic photography — I’ve no doubt it works better more often than not. But the “not” in that construction remains.
I’m not good at referencing great photographers for examples, but I know there are at least several in the canon who successfully took a cold and distant approach. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure most of Cartier-Bresson’s iconic work was done as an uninvolved observer. And of course I’m not putting myself up as any kind of role model. My people skills are middling and need a lot of work for me to improve as a photographer. Nevertheless, a lot of what I attempt is purposely cold and pointless. If it doesn’t work, that says more about my meager skills than any absolute necessity to interact with one’s subjects.
Great stuff, John. I find it particularly interesting how you lighted the color portrait. Next to the black and white, it’s a fascinating study in contrasts.
hey michael. No big secret really. The BW is 5×4 tri-x with 2 softboxes, the colour is 35mm slide and there is a picture in that set that shows the set up. he has a great face though and its fun to mess with it.
“Seems Marcin is in danger of losing a different kind of stuff. More valuable.”
Most definitely..
better 100 cameras than mojo
Straight from the oven, that shot i took a few hours ago, in Sangklaburi, a city and town eschewed by tourists, trekkers and backpackers, which is truly a miracle here, so beautiful the place is, and the people so kind (most of burmese stock).
Taken while a photography club from bangkok was busy shooting the kids diving off the bridge, apparently all taking the same shot over and over again. I only took one, here it is:
http://www.pbase.com/uc/image/121721253/original
Thodoris
hi, morning..you say “I fail to see what is that so deep and important thing/thought/feeling that the photographer feels the need to express…”
I think it is life – whether it is the expression of beauty/light/oneness or struggle/pain/violence or some combination of these or other primal aspects – life is “so deep and important” and artists do feel the need to express, react to, sort out, reflect, unearth, explore, muse over, muddle through, etc. It’s what they do…
“Seems Marcin is in danger of losing a different kind of stuff. More valuable.”
If we talk about photography of people, and I can make photography of people only… then yes, this is catastrophe like lost all gear. I am not interesting with taking photos of dogs, trees, cars or birds. And I have awful relations with people like most freaks. This is not danger it is done.
and what is mojo?????
Herve,
Great you are publishing so many pictures on face! :)
do not stop!!
http://www.foto8.com/new/online/blog/1076-does-haitis-crisis-call-for-a-new-photojournalism
PANOS :)))
forgot to mention: congrats on going off to Beirut with E! :)))))…and big hopes/hugs for success in B (that other place you’re off to!) :))))…looking forward to seeing the Greek essay :)))))….god damn, Lebanon aint gonna be the same…by the way, check out Frank’s book on Beirut….and becare with the cops…and the nightblubs :))))
hugs
JOHN G!…love that painter/friend’s paintings (the guy you photographed)…they remind me of the great (and crazy) 20th century painter Pavel Filonov
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=FDT&q=russian%20painter%20Pavel%20Filonov&cts=1265472996612&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
THODORIS:
each person’s life, just as each body of work, is not necessarily likable/approachable/explicable to all…ever sit in a bar and meet someone and say ‘i dont get it, what’s up with that person’…well, the thing is that life is a cork rhyme, that each of us spend our entire life scavenging and scribbling on, and each of us get our mojo from different clues and questions….i love ballen’s work for many reasons (wont write why now) but one of the things is a simple one: i love listening to people tell stories about themselves, their lives, about experiences about others….and any photographer who shares their specific vision does it for me…i may not get stoked about something, or it may not catch my clip, but i still enjoy it…ballen’s work has also spoken to me, deeply, for emotional, for intellectually, for purelly visual reasons, the same way when i see a painting by dubbet or look at a child’s scribbled drawing or letter, or notice the dirt beneath fingernails or read kafka or platonov, or listen to certain types of music, it just does it….life in all it’s vagrant mysteries…right?…..im surprised if you dig Michals (me too) you find distance with Ballen….but, folks like different types of books or foods or films….or jackets/trousers….
plubming the imagination of both the world around and your own thing is what it’s about…
if you’re looking for the answer to ‘what is deep’ about it, i’d say you’re asking the wrong question, instead, it is just something simple: at least for me:
again the extraordinary imagination of our human lives….and that doesnt have to be mined a mile deep, but lay at the surface of our thoughts….and our sleep :)))
cheers
bob
Bob. Yes. He reminds me of ‘de-kooning. quite remarkable at times.
Marcin. What is mojo?
Its your thing. The spring in your step. Luck. the twinkle in the corner of your eye. It what you can do when you are in the zone…..If you ever had it (and you seriously did), IT WILL COME BACK.
John…
I consider you a kindred spirit… also, great pictures of Chris Wilson…
Erica…
I was wondering about *the specific* thing/thought/feeling that the creator of the work at hand was trying to communicate and not the basic motivations behind creating art in general… I do create pictures now and then too…
Bob…
I appreciate what you wrote… I think the “I don’t get it, what’s up with that person” might just be the answer… as for the difference between Michals and this work… well, Michals tries to provide the context/clues for the viewer to understand what is it that he wanted to say, while with Ballen, I feel like I’m watching a foreign film without subtitles; I can appreciate the cinematography and maybe get some vague idea about the plot, but I totally miss the dialogues/narration and therefore both my appreciation and understanding of the work are incomplete…
Marcin…
I’ve always had the same problem with people… so, I mostly shoot trees… but I’m still hopeful I will learn how to deal with them before I die…
Signing off for today…
bob..:))))))))
its even better than that..
21st feb..going instanbul with Nikos for a week..
by train…
lets see what happens…
big hug bro..
mojo = libido or male sexual organ…or dick ( not cheney)..
mr.Mojo rising..etc..
Never heard of this “mojo” expression… Panos, thanks for the explanation! Obviously I am not a native speaker. The other day I learned that Akaky’s “IRL” means “In Real Life”. Good to know…
Davin, bad news. I feel there is no trick to play it safe in the future. The loss of gear is bad, but most important of all is to get away unharmed. In Budapest I spent a lot of time walking and photographing around the VIII district with my Hasselblad. Never had a problem, but inside I was always prepared that someone might take it from me. In the VIIIth district I met several dubios people, some real bad gangsters, but no one was interested in my clumsy camera…. maybe the Hasselblad looks way too old fasioned. They should have better watched the landing on the moon ;-)
Panos, right on! Beirut is one of my favourite places. Go! You will love it! The people are great, even though some go way over the top at times. In Beirut I highly recommend my usual hangout, the Torino express bar in Gemmayze in the Gouraud street. Have an Almaza on me! Enjoy the trip and the time in Istanbul!
This week I discussed with my students the work of Joel-Peter Witkin. It was their special wish to discuss his work. Honestly I was always way too scared by his images to go for a deeper investigation. But now his work becomes more understandable for me with more knowlege about his biography, his intentions and his references to paintings. I admit that the reaction among the students were different. Some were hesitating, some thought he is a genius, but nobody rejected his work.
Imants, do you feel any connection or relation to Witkin in your work and your attitude?
I am off to Berlin tomorrow to have a guided tour to the prison that was used by the secret service of the former German Democratic Republic in Berlin-Hohenschönhausen: http://en.stiftung-hsh.de/
Sounds like a scary place, but it is part of the German history.
In the afternoon I want to take a look at an exhibition by Don Mc Cullin, Jonas Bendiksen and Thomas Dworzak. Mc Cullin was the first well known photographer I ever met and I was impressed by his humble personality. What a great guy! He ranks until today among my absolute favourite photographers.
Here is a link to the exhibition place: http://www.co-berlin.eu/news.html?Itemid=390
The past weeks I had little time to write here at burn. No worries, I still read most of the comments though. I decided to travel to India for a month to visit my friend Ravi in New Delhi and some friends in Kerala in the south of India. My main ambition is to spend time with my friends and share their life. Maybe I will go off for a short trip to Rishikesh to see a bit of the Himalaya. We will see. I try to travel light. The airline offers 40 kilogramm of luggage. I am tempted…
Maybe there is a chance to meet some other Burnians? I will be in Delhi from February 18th until March 16th. Any good advice on travelling in the tropics or in India is much appreciated.
Snow is melting here and I had my first day in the garden today, collecting dead wood for the Easter fire!
Best
Reimar
Imants, do you feel any connection or relation to Witkin in your work and your attitude?
No I actually had never seen his work and I have nothing to do with stuff as horror as a kid, fucked up family, excuses etc.
It is about how one can see while taking photographs eg The Cat Pisses on Art, the kids in the picture have nothing to do with the statement nor did they really react to me taking the photo, they were more interested in other stuff, their curiosity about what their elders where up to talking to my wife. So it is all about what we presume and don’t see and why we make up stuff to suit our needs. That is why despite there being an intent to every image there is no direction at the same time. Images can get thrown in and out of context and into other slide shows, exhibitions etc they are all pretty transitory http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
The other work is http://www.imantskrumins.com/#goto=one-eye-dreaming
……… and sometimes it is just about thinking aloud.The cat did piss on my artwork as I stated before. I probably could do it all in Microsoft Excel but that would be boring
Davin, sorry to hear about your troubles. You’re okay, aren’t you? Nothing broken or anything like that?
Reimar, Marcin, you might be interested in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEYwk0bypY
Muddy Waters, Got my mojo workin’
Imants,
thank you for this explanation. Please no offence to you. I know putting Witkin and your work together is pretty far fetched. I was curious to hear what you would say. Thank you for that!
In my comment to your presentaion here at burn I didn’t say it clearly, but I really like your work! I would love to have your book – as long as I can afford it. Are you thinking of an artists book with a very limited number or will you have it printed and published?
Akaky,
thanks for the music!
Good night!
Reimar
Reimar, I don’t take offense….. see what a mechanical/digital form such as photography can do it can transform and place itself into other contexts.
The book well, I am about to make some decisions and all may be revamped as the accordion player has returned or it may go into a quasi scroll form……
Yes, insured. . . glad i pay each month :) Many thanks all. It’s always a toss up. You either are bored in a safe Western place or inspired in a dangerous Eastern place where police don’t actually police or enforece laws. This episode was shocking. I mean I was on a main street at 3 pm. I swore as loud as I could abd yet people on the opposite side of the street didn’t even look. I do wish the boy ill. I kicked and hit him as hard as I could. For an EU capital Bucharest has a ways to go. In the city center I should not have to be fending off rabid children in broad daylight. I am not sure what Brussels was thinking re: Romania.
Thodoris
I wasn’t suggesting you are a stranger to the artistic impetus; rather I can’t imagine that artists who are doing complex work can completely iterate the “specific” thing in the way I think you are asking – I think of the psychological response to the violent/chaotic/aspects of life, and the desire to unearth the same into a physical work as being pretty specific…I personally would hate to know, for example, that image such and such was a response to the idea of victim/prey in the animal kingdom, or whatever…and not that I would know what RB’s motivations are, but my guess is he isn’t working from that kind of direct (specific) reference, instead that the “important thing/thought/feeling” IS that aspect of life that is chaos/violence.
Davin: What Brussels was thinking re: Romania…
Maybe because in Brussels you can get mugged the same way…
Reimar; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhTCYqJsfqs
Davin… again get the f out of there and bring Aga with you… the body of work you made in Romania is enough to make SOME people aware…. or not….
what are you actually looking for???
hugs and good luck!!
f
Davin, your lack of compassion will not win you too many friends in Bucharest, though enemies you will gather with ease. All you do is slag the place and people off, no sympathy from me.
davin – imants has a point.
you are again reflecting a single experience on an entire city / country.. which anyone can do about anywhere..
getting hit /robbed / followed isn´t unique to any place..
You either are bored in a safe Western place…
———————————————
really? like where???
davin – imants has a point.
——————————–
( same as john vink imo..)
safe Western place
——————-
try to walk anywhere between 7th st and Lincoln ave in venice beach
after dark carrying all that gear and see what happens.. but then again,
nothing could happen… we attract energy … we are energy… we give , we take…
and sometimes its just happens… see DAH’s stolen strobe in Rio… but there is no way
to convince me that Bucharest is more unsafe than LA or NY or athens ( with or without a mustache…)
big hug
ps.safety tip for anyone visiting athens: (always , but always carry a mustache with you..;)
davin, being bored has nothing to do with a place, but with oneself only.. Imants is right.
panos, have fun, looking forward to see your POV of the places you go!
being bored has nothing to do with a place, but with oneself only
———————————————————————
hmm…this is true im afraid…someone said earlier that the people that
easily get bored are usually the boring ones..
Moral of the story; if you go to a “less safe” place because everywhere else is boring, don’t complain if it bites you on the arse… :-)
moral of the story; if u walking around Bagdhad or in compton (LA) and catch a bullet that doesnt necessarily makes u a hero…
( next thing u know, Zoriah is an iconic PJ because he is exploiting Iraq, Gaza or Haiti…bullshit )
Or; go here. But unfortunately Martin Parr beat us all to it! :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boring,_Oregon
Panos do you ever wear a tie? Ross have you ever put your underpants on backwards? Imants why do yo want to know?
Panos, Bruno Stevens grabbed my attention with this re: Zoriah..:
http://www.digitalphotographybasics.com/the-top-10-photojournalists-of-all-time/
I prefer this one http://www.digitalphotographybasics.com/category/dp-history/
John remember only tourists visit the first page ………..
…and michael jackson is the best musician of the millennium… mozart was just a good self publicist
Well I just got back an’ I wish I never leave now
Who dat Martian arrival at the airport yeah?
How many local dollars for a local anaesthetic?
The Johnny on the corner wasn’t very sympathetic
Wasn’t I lucky and wouldn’t it be loverly?
Send us all cards, and have a lay in on Sunday
I was there for two weeks, so how come I never tell
That natty dread drinks at the Sheraton Hotel yeah?
They got the sun and they got the palm tress
They got the weed, and they got the taxies
Whoa, the harder they come, n’ the home of ol’ Bluebeat
Yes I’d stay and be a tourist but can’t take the gun play
I went to the place where every white face is an invitation to robbery
Sitting here in my safe European home
Don’t wanna go back there again
And just so there’s no misunderstanding, that’s Joe Strummer talking, not me.
Michael
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IunpUTdLEig
thanks… an all time classic
John Vink :))
i saw that stupid ass list…..i wrote a long, angry response yesterday at both LS and on Digital photography and then deleted them…thought, what’s the point…..
it HAS TO BE those gloves that put him on the list….and just think of all the people NOT on the list, including urself…….
just stupid-ass silly ;))))
u r still on that list in my book…along with PJG and Burrows and Siskind ;)))
b
the list views like an ´odd one out´ game from seasame street..
¨one of these snappers is not like the other one,
one of these snappers is just not the same..¨
ALL,
Hung out this weekend with some famous rock photographers (which I guess included myself :)). We were doing a panel for the opening of Taking Aim, a music photography show at EMP curated by Graham Nash. Anyway, all at one table we had moi, Jim Marshall, Neal Preston, Henry Diltz, Joel Bernstein, Alice Wheeler, Chris Walter, Allan Messer, Jini Dellacio, and Graham Nash talking about our images and the swapping stories, etc. Pretty historic if you ask me.
Check out the book on Chronicle. It’s really good (if I should say so myself). Well printed and selected and a great overview of some of the best rock photography/photographers of all time. Also, if you are in Seattle, the exhibit is very good, no matter what one thinks of EMP itself.
BTW, both Jim and I were sporting our M9’s, though his was given to him by Leica – with his signature on the top! Very cool. Amazing man with an unsurpassable body of work.
Here’s a link to a radio interview that Graham Nash, Alice and I did on local NPR. Not the best interviewer but a fun time nonetheless.
http://kuow.org/program.php?id=19350
Take care,
Charles
i still find crowd and ´scene´ photographs much more interesting than photos of the artists themselves who were photographed over and over.. from the pit.. backstage.. sound checking.. candid yet always aware..
standing on the shoulders of giants?
i dunno.
the people attending.. the crowd worship.. all the atmosphere of teh church really grabs me more than another snap of a well known face.
http://www.chroniclebooks.com/index/main,book-info/store,books/products_id,8145/
of course – many congratulations charles.. no intention to piss on yer fireworks.. just thinking aloud.. apologies that i read negatively when you deserve better.
:ø)
…and where was pennie smith?
Sounds like a fun night charles.
Very very few people are very very good at this(although many are ‘famous’).
I am with david bowen in preferring a strong picture over the more obvious celebrity action shot.
for me the golden age was from the late sixties to the late seventies. Anton Corbijn continues to produce the goods though.
really, a pj top ten list that doesnt include david douglas duncan or george rodger is just too dumb for words,
David. Interesting thing is that I have the only crowd shot in the book.
I agree to a with you to a point. Jim Marshall’s photos are fucking amazing though. And so cool how humble and friendly they all are and really passionate about photography (and music).
CP
3:48am in athens… i just met a juicy little mama…since 7pm…
im in paradise…fuck zoriah and his fake ass game..
fuck Zoriah
fuck Messiah
fuck Jeremiah
fuck zoriah
fuck zoriah….
ohhhhhh that little mama is so pretty…so beautiful..so hot…….so spicy….
John,
yeah would have been amazing if Pennie, Anton, Lynn Goldsmith,
Mick Rock etc would have been there. I’m sure they got who they could.
Amazing thing is how you g they were back then and it seemed everybody hung out with each other. Joel Bernstein graduated from high school the day before he snapped Neil Young for the Gold Rush cover. I think a lot of the bands were more tuned into the importance of true doc photography and brought photogs along on tour. Now everything so controlled not to mention lack of budget (or budget priorities). Too bad.
ahh… wa happin???
Zoriah got mugged? he lost his canon 5Dmark11111111111???????????
no sympathy!!!!! FUCK FAKE ASS ZORIAHHHHH!!!!!!!
long live Carmen…..
Charles, is that because it’s become such an “industry” with all the corporate b.s. and lawyers that entails? Really is too bad, and not what it was all about. I wonder if there will be a pendulum swing on that.
… and I will actually set foot in the EMP again for the show :)) Nash has done a lot for photography, outside of being a good photographer. Always wanted to have a Nash Editions print made …
Tom;
I would guess the last thing a lawyer would want to see would be “their” band shown doing a line of coke, or smoking meth etc. So they would rather say no than take a risk.
I doubt very much that the sort of access Annie Leibowitz had to the Stones and Beatles would be repeated. Well; maybe unless a band really knew and trusted a photographer, but then again, the lawyers would probably step in…. :-)
Yeah, everybody’s a commodity … although I am sure there are still some that don’t look at things that way. Big “record” companies are being bypassed more and more. I would like to think the commercialism that so distressed folks like Cobain may move in a different more homegrown direction, although admittedly I know nothing about the biz. I wonder if things might be going back to being a little more real. If you haven’t read Eddie Vedder’s introduction to Charles’ book “Touch Me I’m Sick,” it’s a gem. Sorry dude, shameless plug. :))
Here you go Tom… :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJm97o-4qYI
charles – i think you´re right.. certainly with bands and the rock / pop scene.. the music is now so very controlled that it is rare to get the same coverage possible in the 60s / 70s.. even 90s..
YET
there is a scenes where anything is possible.. electronic music is the one i know best..
travelling, hanging.. doing the whatever.. fresh artists in a fresh take on music.. all that jazz.
it´s a young scene and although the money has moved in it´s still in it´s infancy as a movement in youth culture.. it´s really very open.. and the people running it now are the ones who pioneered it in the early days.. very accessible people with much less of a ´celebrity´ attitude than perhaps the modern rock and pop scenes, which really feel a bit self-conscious and past their sell by date in places, especially when trying to photograph them.
in rock, pop, hip hop.. artists ´gift´ the photographers in the pit a bit of the ´jonny cash bird´.. genuine moments are increasingly difficult in an industry dependent upon the press snappers and reviewers.. artists performing for the camera for three songs, and then turning to the crowd..
the photographers i know from the 60s scene seem to have so little of anything to show for the scene they were involved in.. i met a chap last year at his exhibit.. all the ‘candid’ celebrity stuff.. ‘intimate’ and so on.. lots of pit snaps n back stage.. yet nothing from the people at the scene.. the tight groups of fans.. heads n hippies..
jan olofssens work is great.. and i liked seeing him chat up my mum at my first exhibition..
i have a beatles print of his over my desk along with my fav hendrix one, which i printed from the neg myself 13 years ago.. (…and he didn’t have my mum)
yet i have them because of the music.. sure, they are great photos.. but mainly because i love the music.. not because yan has a style or signature imprinted within his aesthetic.
apart from the few photographers who have stuck with a single scene, as with you charles, or a single band.. there is no style in it.. it’s just pointing the lightbox at the money.. and in 2010 it´s just another wheel in the business machine of promotion.
jim marshalls bio compares him without any irony to HCB.. with the thin thread between them being the LLLLeica.. yawn.
yet his work has advanced careers for musicians, sold records and magazines, as was his job – and not advanced photography or an understanding of his time …… just well caught moments of famous people, the value of whos photo rose when they died.
i have also thought the same of leibowitz in the past.. being close to greatness.. ‘standing on shoulders’.. is mistaken for ‘greatness’..
jim had good access, kept doing it.. he chose the right place and also gained commissions from people who put him in the right place… HCB though?
it´s just me probably.
i’m so paranoid.com of becoming known as a ‘musician’ photographer that i have yet to upload my archive of producers and performers from the past 15 years or so.. pretty much everybody is there from the pioneers of house to hip hop through electronica, rock and more.. danny tenaglia to doug e fresh to aphex twin to primal scream to blahblahblah… too many.. live.. . drinking.. backstage.. under the stage.. whatever-ing..
it just doesn´t bake my cake..
to me they are the money shots and no achievement.. they are just the shots which sold to get the commission…. the least i had to do, so the next 48 or 72 hours i was doing my own thing – looking at the wider scene.
perhaps i will eat my words in 15 years time when tor capa needs university fees and my book ‘whoa – look who i hung with’ hits the shelves.
i´ll employ a copy-writer to compare me with edward steichen..
:ø)
just to be clear though charles.. no slur on your work.. i really like what you have done with your books, particularly touch me..
it´s the ´famous photographers´ that get my goat, and i know you were being tongue in cheek when including yourself in the bunch
until there are famous sports photographers, with bloated folios of beckham ´backstage´ i´ll not buy in it :ø)
Bowen, those were cool … yeah, i know nothing of the scene, and i could care less if someone has a “name” but it seems such a great venue to make memorable works, around the edges, slices of history within what often becomes a key to a generation and who they are, or wanted to be … but i’m sure i’m just being idealistic … :)) … hah, just remembered the documentary Anvil: The Story of Anvil … which proves the story of failed bands can be just as interesting. Fewer lawyers too.
tom – just re read an i woke in a weird mood i think .. long, long jabbering..
you´re right – touch me i´m sick is great..
will try to find anvil online..
:ø)(
For those in NY on the 18th, I came across this, looks like it could be interesting. Seems it will be a place to see where the worlds of commerce/art/documentary photography all collide. I guess there will be art buyers, collectors and editors there so potentially a good networking event and also a chance to see some great pics. So for those who hanker after doing documentary work with the potential for commercial thrown in too “look and learn” as they say.
http://stocklandmartelblog.com/2010/01/27/party-invitation-come-celebrate-menuez-archive-projects-on-feb-18/
If I was in NY I’d definitly go along.
Cheers all.
For me its always about making a killer shot. Not who is in it. This is largely unpopular in the music biz though. I remember going to the 100 club on the opening of their picure re-hanging with a promoter i worked with. I was pointing out the stunning shots, the okay, and the ‘oh look its pete docherty’ shot. Like a lot of music people (and non photographers) he could not get it. A picture worked for him only if it had a known musician throwing a ‘classic’ shape onstage.(they are for him of course only of promotional value, and just need to show who he can get) There are some fantastic pictures there. No idea who the people are in some of them, and it dont matter. There are also a lot of great iconic star shots. No doubt. But more than a few of the ‘just a famous person on stage’ school. This is sadly becoming the norm now with our ‘cult of celebrity’ culture running amok. Stangely, I work often with ‘old school’ bone -fide rock and roll legends who let me do exactly as i want. they know how strong my work is, and they know I aint in it for the money or fame and i aint gonna take the ‘crashed out face down in the charlie’ shot and hawk it to the papers. There is trust there. I shoot unknown bands i like the look of in exactly the same way, Just trying to make a killer shot.
Must drink some coffee now :)
JOHN
Ahh ha Jim’s back I wonder if he has backed up yet……………. but I see he has lost his usual controlled composure.
DAVID,
I here ya, but ya gotta watch the bitterness. It’ll creep up on you before you know it and suddenly everything’s “crap.” Yes, too many famous people – but it’s famous people that help put dinner on not so famous people’s plates – ie no way would this show book/happen if it wasn’t celebrity-centric (though I think most of the shots chosen transcend being just that and into timeless great photography) as putting these things on cost lots of $ and it’s famous people that draws that crowds. Sad but true. Touch Me I’m Sick did fine because, despite my best intentions, it’s got famous people in it (couldn’t document the scene without them) CYPHER on the other hand tanked, despite my feeling it being a very good, mature book, because it was about a marginal scene (who don’t buy books).
Isn’t DAH, Eugene Richards, James Nachtwey, HCB, Robert Capa, Phil Stern, etc etc all considered “famous photographers.” Why can’t there be famous living/dead music photographers? Fame isn’t something to be feared. Embrace it, use it with right intention, just don’t get hung up on it and become an asshole.
Not sure what I’m trying to say here. A big part of the discussion on Saturday was about access. And about trust. And keeping on doing it. All things you said make a photographer. Not to fly Jim’s flag too much, but I think the HCB comparison is apt. That Dylan rolling tire photo is from two frames. A totally spontaneous moment. John and June Carter Cash cozying up – not your typical backstage moment. The guy was good and prolific and stuck to his way of doing things. Anyway, dude’s 74, I’m sure he wants to sell some prints. I’m sure he didn’t write his own bio but on reading it decided “why not?” A big part of my being is to get rock and roll photography out of the ghetto it’s been relegated to. Why can’t it just be photography like everything else? Other photographers get compared to other photographers, why do rock/music photographers always have to stay over in their little corner?
David, why not pull out that story of electronica work and edit it down? The big part is editing. Sure you may think all you have is typical press/backstage shots but I bet you there are enough gems (like about 80-90) to make a great book of those times. At one point I totally rejected my grunge work – didn’t look at it unless I totally had to. Then I ran across that pic of Kurt from behind and it struck me that there’s probably some great work hidden in my archives I’ve never seen and that’s when I started editing for Touch Me. I wouldn’t wait 15 years because the interest is now (plus no way will it pay for university fees no matter how good the photos/famous the people are! Not the reason to do it). Find the angle, the style, the thread. Keep it specific.
Okay coffee time for me now! How’s Tor Capa?
Best,
CP
BURNIANS,
I am back from a trip to the unknown …
what can I say…
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLL …:)))
OUZO for all …What not to LOVE !!!
it´s the ´famous photographers´ that get my goat, and i know you were being tongue in cheek when including yourself in the bunch
——————————–
sorry for interfering ..but mr.CP has every right to be included in that “famous” circle…
Famous is not necessarily negative..
DAH is well known, iconic, “famous”… same as Buddha… same as Charles P..imo
biggest hug
Charles…
So you know, you made a couple of bucks today :)
Just ordered your Touch Me… couldn’t resist… big fun of grunge…
hey charles.. tor capa is very well thanks – gettin over a cough and all that :ø)
i’ve probably not explained myself that well..
all i’ve rally been interested in is the crowd and the people out there.. although there is some celebrity idolizing of the dj’s these days, it wasn’t like that initially and i guess the hangover for me is that point.. i loved being in an atmosphere where the dancefloor and the people attending had their backs to the guy playing records.. the artists.. that thought carries right through my photography.
the editing over the past couple of years has done a good job of getting that vision down.. been working so hard on it and everything is pretty much in place to do the legwork for meetings and all.. and as it stands there is not a single artist in the book.. they were only a backdrop to the main event as i see, an idea very different from rock and pop gigs..
i utterly understand the issues of trust and access – and how rare it can be to gain both.. and perhaps i do have a book in it somewhere along the line..
2000gbp is all one friend got for his excellent folio of 60’s artists.. with the money being low i’ll stick to my passion for now and see how that goes down.
perhaps its the place i have inhabited.. i don’t know.. i’m unable to start being too specific here.
yet we will agree to differ on jim i am sure :ø)
lots of respect, of course.. it’ll kill us, this life.. has killed friends of mine.. and everyone has to make a buck..
of course rock n pop snappers have a place.. it’s just that the press can sometimes stretch the reality as i know it to be..
i don’t really want to get much more into it here, although i’m not bitter in the least.
experience has made me angry at times, exstatic at others. indifferent.. ambivolent.. so on.. the fruit tree cliche of fame and those trapped in it’s bows has taught me a healthy sceptisism, is all
:ø)
panos :ø)
my mum will only have heard of buddha..
my local shopkeeper is ‘famous’.. mr. clean.. so true.. invites discussion from newspaper buyers on big news days..
not his goal, just his role.
“Then I ran across that pic of Kurt from behind …”
That single photograph has always struck me as an icon, a summation, for the “lost generation,” and many other things.
Bowen, I do hope you revisit your archive and do a book, I would buy it because I know you captured slices of history and condition and who were are/were that are only now becoming apparent with the passage of time. And because you think right. Dig in brother David.
:ø)
tom..
:ø)
i think what i like about touch me charles is that it says a great deal about you.. your time n place in that moment, of working as a music photographer.. in that sence i like what tom said about there being value in photographing an unknown band, which is what i presume you began doing with nirvana.. happy coincidence and all that is always good.
here is a funny aside which you may relate to.
many new music photographers.. some who write to me.. believe that what they have to do is get in with the famous.. and i’ve watched some try to stand shoulder to shouder and hidden behind my hands..
friendships happen and are a fantastic thing when they do.. sometimes the bands get big and sometimes not.. yet following the myths is no way to start out.. you start out with your next door neighbour and follow the path.. as i believe you and i and john have done within music.
that builds a series as with touch. me.. a book which would be just as good whether the band became known or not.. great that they did.. but irrelevant perhaps to your goals as a photographer and the quality of the photos.
big books of general mixed portraits do not in any way say the same thing to me.. narratives broken into random words, whoever the photographer might be.. the big book of national geographic snaps and all that.
yes.. it’s a woman sitting and holding a bottle.. she look a bit shy of the camera to me.. her name is janice, but the photo is not so remarkable :ø).
David,
I love that pic of the ravers with the cruise ship off in the distant. That should be your starting point. Frankly though I wouldn’t discount anything (I mean celebrities) if it helps tell the story. Don’t put them in there for the sake of having them in there to just sell the piece, but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you leave out great images just because of some sort of personal hang up (and they may be well known to you but not everybody). Tell the story, with your best images, no matter who is in them.
I dj’ed for a bit in the late nineties (a mash up of everything from Daft Punk to the Sex Pistols) and despite the whole dancefloor liberation aspect of it I found quite a few egos involved, actually more so than the rock scene. Different drugs maybe? Good times though.
Yeah, coughs all around here too. Wouldn’t trade it for anything though :)
Best,
CP
David/Charles ever seen these guys.
http://www.genesis-publications.com/browse/genre/music
Books basking in the glorious glow of music celebrity, but beautifully printed and bound with pricetag to match.
Cheers
ian
hear you loud n clear charles.. ego’s abound on occassion.. just the very best and the very worst of people in the electronic world i know.. the worst of the worst and the best of the best… all drugs are everywhere :øO
our whole neighbourhood is coughing.. spring must be on it’s way ..
yes it is worth it.. best time of day is picking him up from nursery.. such a rare treat.
off for the night.. have a good one n cuddle your 1 year old.. best cuddle in the world.
pea’s n chips all..
d
JIM – you can leave that room but try not to leave the house please..
ian.. blimey.. that lends a perspective for sure.
A big part of my being is to get rock and roll photography out of the ghetto it’s been relegated to.
Though this has also led to the strength of the work produced, the sheer lack of rules of how, when, etc made it more accessible and loved by the public.
David B;
I’m beginning to think that the images that best “speak music” come from the unknowns, the garage practices, the guitar strummed on the back porch with all the bro’s etc.
I decided not to worry about getting passes for the bigger gigs, eg WOMAD, Big Day Out, Parachute Christian Music festival etc this year, but to concentrate on the indie stuff and small gigs, or home stuff.
Even so; I only take “band shots” if they ask for them, otherwise concentrate on the crowd and the interactions between bands/performers and crowd etc. To me it says more of what the music is about. I like the way music is a unifying influence, bringing people from disparate backgrounds together…
Mind you; it’s great being able to marry two of your greatest loves, photography and music!
Panos;
I shot that birthday party on Friday; finally got home about 5am. The girl whose birthday it was asked if I was feeling “comfortable” every time she went past; this from a 17 year old! I didn’t have the heart to tell her I’d been in crazier scenes, but it was nice to see genuine concern from those so young! You gotta love the kids!
The nicest images were of a young dad looking after his little boy in the bedroom (watching Spongebob DVDs) as the party raged. The two young couples (19-23-ish) who brought their young kids along (3-4 months, and two at about 3 years), took turns staying by their bedroom door to ensure nobody woke them up or blundered drunkenly into the rooms.
Cheers
Maybe it is goodbye Jim and welcome Wilson Pickett
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=28005
Imants; I can remember getting pissed off with the folks when I was a kid. “I’m outa here”, but eventually came slinking back, tail between my legs when the belly began to rumble…. I shoulda just backed up a bit :-)
All,
seems I start living again after breaking my ankle. I still can’t walk without crutches, but had my first shooting with a band. They all go to the same school, and this summer they will all part and go their own ways. Their plan is to produce a CD before the summer to have a common milestone. I am accompaning them and want to document several stages and moments until that day.
Even I can’t walk really, it was a lot of fun taking pictures during their rehearsals for a contest on the weekend. It feels good, to take pictures again. :)
…and since you music photographers are here – my eyes and ears are open for all hints you want to give to me. … ;-)
Thanks.
David Bowen – I hear ya on Jim Marshall V HCB – no comparison – but great photographer none the less, I keep this Jim Marshall print over my desk, it’s an original print that I saw siting on a picture editors desk after it had been laid out , I asked him if he wanted to keep it , his reply was ” Nahh mate , “I’m not much into country music.”
http://www.penmachine.com/musicpages/greatestphoto.html
imants – interesting stuff..
although no one has to explain themselves or their work, it can be refreshing on occassion when someone does.
i think some are imagining ballen reclining in a smoking jacket with a smug grin and eyes looking down his nose, whereas he might just be leaning forward with a warm smile, a glint in his eye and palms facing upward… it is a little difficult to tell..
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=vOhf3OvRXKg
here is an unusual talent..
This video shows the winner of ” Ukraine’s Got Talent”, Kseniya Simonova, 24, drawing a series of pictures on an illuminated sand table showing how ordinary people were affected by the German invasion during World War II. The Great Patriotic War, as it is called in Ukraine , resulted in one in four of the population being killed with eight to 11 million deaths out of a population of 42 million.
glenn..
that is such a great photo.. the first syllable of a ¨fuck you¨ married to the perfect performance gesture…
some artists love being seen to piss on the photo pit, as the first few rows love it..
ross..
thats exactly the way forward for your work.. if bands warm to you then of course warm back, yet the point of your project is far reaching, beyond music venues, and the focus exactly where you have placed it.
sand on a lightbox by the way..
Ross… hope to see the link soon..:)
Johhnietta cash?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/3326791024_e40b61f070_b.jpg
gotta love a hostile crowd.
MUMMY! MUMMY! THAT COMPLEX AESTHETIC IS SCARING ME.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3123/2718723731_1eb31bd102_o.jpg
…..its okay honey, it was just a bad dream.
john – :ø)
it´s brilliant to see the energy erupt..
hope ballen comes back for round 2
my camera is a killing jar.
and i will arrange you how i will.
until you are pinned just so.
and then i will make of you something you could never be.
I will make you ART.
.. :ø)
in the bondage of balon..
i´ll make you eat veggie stew
and i will make you fART
unless i catch you unaware,
in which case you´ll be art
.. :ø)
in the bondage of ballen..
i´ll make you eat veggie stew
and i will make you fART
unless i catch you unaware,
in which case you´ll be art
doh.
Live from Prison
We really need to grow up some day :))
NEVER
tor wouldn´t forgive me if i donned a tank top and tie..
We really need to grow up some day :))
that´s funny / wrong on so many levels..
brilliant..
:ø)
! Panos- well done – you figured out that I am an introvert and that insight has been rare even among those who know me best – indeed am an “INFJ” according to personality type…I am a bit wowed that you saw that, as most see me as an extrovert. And am touched that you see the difference btwn elitist and introvert, it actually hurts my being to ever have been thought of the former.
“Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities…quite private and typically difficult to understand… They have high expectations of others and push them to be the best that they can be. This can sometimes manifest itself in the INFJ being hard-nosed and stubborn…INFJ is a perfectionist who doubts that they are living up to their full potential…They have strong value systems, and need to live their lives in accordance with what they feel is right.”
Erica,
it took me a while didnt it? (told ya im not that bright!!)
but i blame Nikos for that extra “knowledge”…couple minutes around Nikos and i figured things out..
such as “accepting” others, but mostly accepting my own self…
(and a public sorry for any stress i caused u in the past due to my careless extroverted way of expressing my thoughts)
Panos, Panos quick I found Zoriah…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31199746@N02/4010541899/in/set-72157622452249309/
seems it is time to break bread…
a hug to Nikos and I hope your time with him brings you everything you desire
peace
peace
peace
..furthermore they tend to have an aversion to light, and hamsters, and will avoid saying the word ‘committee’ wherever possible. INFJ type personalities also tend to cluster around old bookshops and keep pieces of butter in their shoes. Many INFJ are scared of tuesday. It is also believed that nearly all INFJ will wear shoes at some point although this has never been proven.
ahh.. we´re all okay..
tolerance and all that.
when i fried my head on a nightly basis it was sometimes difficult to tell what colour the sofa was.
“when i fried my head on a nightly basis it was sometimes difficult to tell what colour the sofa was.’
..yeah but didnt it look sexy though. :)
Ian..
u r in a great mood today aint ya?
:)
..and now i´m wondering if there will be a hole left by jim whatsoever?
i wonder how high the conversation could get without us wriggling around the obstinacy..?
no offence intended jim..
because i´m sure you´ve not deleted your bookmark yet.
LETS ALL GO WEIRD OURSELVES:
yes.
nono..
GO STRANGE OURSELVES:
always john.. cuddling down into her velvet folds..
scary biscuits all round :)
david/john..
r u guys appearing together or is it just me?
laughing..
but david i guess u r right (if u a referring to me)…pot was making things worst..
peace
John…please write the source and let them know that the bit about hamsters should be struck from the record, as it is untrue…and it is Monday that holds the fright. Nicely said about the last bit, evidenced by my choice of highschool yearbook quote (“Put your shoes on Lucy, don’t you know you’re in the city now.”) selected when I knew I was on my way to NYC, but oft told to me by my great grandmother all through childhood.
Got an invitation to visit Manhattan
With my highfalutin’ kin
Sent off to the catalog to get some clothes
Felt so stylish from my head to my toes
Seen all the sights and I even did some flirtin’
I was doin’ alright till my feet started hurtin’
So I kicked off my shoes when I thought they couldn’t see
But they must have, ‘cos this is what they all said to me
Put your shoes on, Lucy, don’t you know you’re in the city
Put your shoes on, Lucy, it’s really such a pity
That Lucy can’t go barefoot wherever she goes
‘Cause she loves to feel the wiggle of her toes
Put your shoes on Lucy ’cause you’re here in old New York
Zoriah again..http://www.flickr.com/photos/31199746@N02/4324847362/in/set-72157622452249309/
WOW1 he looks just like a broken web link.
Ian , cant open the last one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31199746@N02/4324847362/in/set-72157622452249309/
lol… yes u are in a good mood and now i am too…
hey panos.. i was talking about me ..
from 16 until 35..
maybe empathizing with you :ø)
i wonder if john has some history?
hmm
scary biscuits all round..
pea´s.
d
david..i hear u..
took no offense ..i just grabbed the opportunity to emphasize on my childish behavior …
and my tendencies for abuse…
hamsters are revolting creatures, if truth be told, and if modern postindustrial society didnt need the feculent little creatures and their wheels to keep the electricity going then I’d be all for deep-frying every single one of the beasts in boiling lard and then serving the remains to the buzzards.
Huh, never did that before … INTP, apparently I’d make a good lawyer, or absent-minded professor. That’s just wrong … let me logically analyze that further … damn.
Is it safe to post again?
Yes, please. Was it the hamsters or my personality traits that killed that ramble? Need a new thread, with a photo from Rio that answers no questions … or ….
Hi,
I would like to say something… many persons here quote the other persons and to comment … I must make attention on every word which I write ? I think that it is very intimidating, especially when English is not the mother tongue…
best,
audrey
but but…but http://www.iamparanoid.net/
audrey
i don´t like thinking that you´d be intimidated – you have always been understood by people here, going right back to ´road trips´… please feel at ease – and CONGRATULATIONS on the possible portrait shoot through millenium.. any more news to share?
re-personality
well, cuddle my soul.
i´ve gone and spent my morning coffee-time doing the Jung Typology Test ..
i feel all self-aware..
no surprises..
i´m ENFJ type (Extraverted iNtuitive Feeling Judging)
http://typelogic.com/enfj.html
and an ideal teacher..
http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=3&c=teacher
an interesting 5 mins..
now i must jack-up n teach a friend how to.
have consolidated my blog posts about making my book into a new blog..
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpwastedbook/
lots in there from first thoughts to sequencing and chatting with david and hundreds of snaps, if you like that sort of thing
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpwastedbook/
David B,
Fingers crossed for the portrait…. soon, I’ll be also in http://www.milimgallery.com/ :))
thank you !
very good.
looks good. i much prefer that site to the old one..
i´ve known a few people who are on their books and they have all done well through millenium.
brilliant that they recognize your style as marketable and took you on..
I tried to take the test.
It said I was presonality type T.W.A.T And that I should SEEK HELP.
wonder what it means :)
david b….just took a look at your wastedbook blog….it’s really interesting to see all your thoughts behind it, from the original ideas to choosing a title, thanks for posting.
thanks vicky.. i need top update it..
editing what is now 12 years of work is just as demanding, perhaps more so, than actually shooting it in the first place – and so a blog or train of thought, is great to look back over to keep things on track.
still.. need to get it done now, so preparing a nice little boxed set of 10 limited prints to flog and raise funds to do the legwork involved in getting a publisher.
john
T.W.A.T.
(terribly witty and thoughtful)
the personality type of a self deprecating poet who has a refined taste for facial hair and an addiction .. any addiction will do for a T.W.A.T., coffee, alcohol, potions, gelatin silver.
it´s mostly bollox really.. as if 60 multiple choice questions is going to pin down the complexities of a screwed up mind.
it didn´t even ask if i am a potential M*fugger for chrisake.
i remember doing a career test stoned in school –
input – wants to work in hot environment.. late night person.. enjoys hard work
result – night shift at metal smelting plant.
BBC computers eh?
s´all just ego masturbation until a jung test comes back saying
¨glad to not be you – we have notified the correct authorities¨
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_d8Kwavw-I&feature=related
… and then it was over..
everyone had to go inside, james baillie said
¨it´s not a ´super-club´ – it´s a ´superb club´¨
and the money moved in.
I know,I know tech things shouldn’t be talked about here……. but the new aperture looks pretty funky (especially the video and still image handling). Anybody tried it?
Ian
ALL.
Got involved with a mad bunch of photographers from Tokyo and around the globe. Got invited to get involved with this project. It may float ,it may not..I hope it does. Its only a month old after all.
Some good people there, mad busy all hands to the pump backstage trying to figure out how to make it all viable. thought i would put it on the map here.
http://magnesiumagency.com/2010/01/14/speakers-corner-hyde-park-corner-london/
JOHN
John G,
The name has a familiar tone to it… ;-)
And the logo looks like I’ve seen something similar somewhere…
john.
yes that was mentioned. cant see it myself :))
it´s from that ice cream confectionery.. blatant.
Ian,
I have ordered the upgrade to Aperture 3. Hope it arrives tomorrow. I’ll let you know.
BURNIANS…is JIMMY …ok???
Well, Civilian is still extremely busy… BUT I am always Here and There…
I read and I watch …closely…I hope you can feel …my breath…hooohoo:)))
yikes, I need brushing …
DAVIDB…selected fotos… rockandrolla …!!!
I am gonna dance today …KATIEEEEEEEEEEE, will you dance with me???
OPA !!!
“Life is the art of drawing without an eraser.”
John W. Gardner (American Writer and Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare, 1912-2002)
WTF… today, I wish I had an eraser…
VIVA, COME ON BURNIANS…yhere is no freaking eraser BUT wtf …I LOVE YOU ALLLLLL
BURN, BURN, BURN
get out and Shoot …wtf…BURNIANS …BURN MY civilian eyes…
BURN FOTO BURN
Typo: there is no freaking eraser
MR.HARVEY …dance for us…damnit…wtf…VIVA !!!
JohnG… It looks cool… hope you’ll still talk to us after Murdoch buys the complete Magnesium print archive for a trillion bucks in a couple of years :))
Here is something funny:
JOHN G.
Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing. Now go shoot some more!
CP
Charles. Its bloody freezing out there…and there’s no green room to blag my way into :)
MAGNUM-MAGNESIUM-MAGNETON-MAGGOTORIUM…
Shall I say…VIVA !!!
john g – congrats and looks really good, but what is with “The world’s most respected photo agency.™”, if it is only a month old?
Fascinating “behind the scenes” Lens blog entry by video journalist Brent McDonald of the NY Times. He gives lots of technical and creative info on how his multimedia presentations are made.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/behind-31/
“The world’s most respected photo agency.™”, if it is only a month old?
————————————————————————-
kinda disrespectful isnt it?
today everything is going wrong…i miss my life…silly things like i cannot figure out for the life of me how in hell to work the door locks on the apartment i just rented…2 keys, 2 locks and no combo works for me…plus, it is 100 degrees F outside and this place must be 110 F inside…have 2 fixers fixing various things like permissions to do this that and the other, but i cannot find either of them because phones not working…or, they are sitting under a coconut tree somewhere laughing at the gringo photographer who cannot get in or out of his apartment..rented a tuxedo for the exclusive black tie ball for 300 bucks..that should look good on my expense report…pictures? pictures? aesthetics? art? photojournalism? luxurious discussion…i have neither at the moment…where is everybody? help ! help!
imagine having a baby..the baby gets one months old… and then you refer to your baby as the most respected Man/Woman in the world….jee….
David..breath in (inhale-exhale) 3 times slowly… get it together…
i know u can do it… i know u can…
DAVID. Find a bar, have a cold one, kick back. Tommorows another day……no aircon though, ouch!
Panos. maybe its a little humour, maybe its a conceit, maybe its a desire to aspire to…I dont know either..but i hooked up with them because they have some great talent and bundles and bundles of passion and energy. On that alone whats to lose??
john…im with u…more agencies..more representation..nothing wrong with that..
DAVID:
check your email….Sergio sent u his phone numbers…his home number and his cell phone…u can call him or miriam,…maybe they can help u with your apartment/lock/key nightmare…check ur email, phone numbers are there…
running
b
imagine having a baby..the baby gets one months old… and then you refer to your baby as…
As the bestest, most beautiful baby in the world? Happens all the time.
…plus, it is 100 degrees F outside and this place must be 110 F inside..burn!
john / panos – or maybe they know something we don’t?
dah – CRAZY NYC blizzard – everything shut down, no banks, post office, cars stuck everywhere….enjoy the sun and sand, have a swim and enjoy the sights:)
http://www.magnumphotos.com/archive/C.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.StoryDetail_VPage&pid=2K1HRGM1XCH
OK, David. What you need right now is an ice cold Corona. Maybe all is OK by now anyway. It must be around 7:30 p.m. in Rio. I doubt if it’s still 100 degrees. Must have cooled off a bit. Wish I could help with the locks but I am a mess when it comes to such things. $300 for a tux? Hey, man, you’re in Rio. Things are expensive down there, especially during carnival when all the rich gringos show up. Trust me, your pics will be worth every cent.
Is it too late for a swim? The ocean would settle you down, I’m sure. Take care and don’t let these momentary glitches cramp your style. It will all work out in the end. Now, take thre deep breathes and remember you are the luckiest guy on earth to be doing what you love AND being paid to do it!!!
big hugs
Patricia
David,
yes, there are days when everything seems to be a mess and everything goes wrong. On such days I get a smile on my face when I read one of your positive comments.
Basically you know what to do, but on some days we like to deal with problems more and on other days it is a pain in the bottom. And on some days it is simply good to get some support.
Usually, when I am in a situation like this, I try to relax as good as possible. Trying not to freak out. Not always easy. Look at the options available. One problem at a time. Guess the door locks have to come first. They can be fixed or exchanged.
Then the fixers, maybe they are busy working for you. If not and you feel uncomfortable with them – get someone else. You can trust your guts and experience on this. I had good and bad fixers. The good ones are rare, precious as gold.
A few years ago I was locked in an old toilet in a monestry in Romania. Silly me without mobile phone or anything. I started shouting and luckily someone heard my screams, but it was impossible to open the door from outside. Then I considered my next option and simply climbed over the door. Glad Romania is pretty rustic. This year on New Year I was locked in a toilet again. It was a new house with good insulation. Screaming was useless so I signalled S.O.S by knocking on the wall, door, heater, window until finally someone heard me and opened the door. The handle was broken. So I somehow get a routine of how to handle a locked up toilet… I haven’t tried appartments yet… the advantage of hotels is that you can always call roomservice…
Okay, even if everything fails, a good night sleep will fix a lot. Tomorrow will be a new day and life will look different again. I bet you will be on a roll again tomorrow.
Problems are made so we can solve them. No idea who said that.
I am saying this from my “safe” haven and by next week I will be in Delhi in India and have some problems to deal with myself. Oh boy, this already scares me… Hope I will remember this then ;-)
Good luck and good light for your images! You will do it!
Best
Reimar
David better to sit there and suffer for your art………………live the cliche.You could have picked up one of those bnw outfits further south along with the yellow shoes
Somehow I think David has suffered enough by this point for his art! :) I know the feeling though. Landing in a loud hot noisy city far from home. Sometimes one just wants to turn around and get back on that plane. Usually goes away after a day or two once the jet lag wears off and the pics start coming fast and furious.
Just put the second coat of floor paint on the new basement studio. 44″ HP inkjet printer showing up on Tuesday – ready to ruuuummmmble! (if I can get it down to the basement:)).
Reimar,
What’s up with you and toilets!? Ha! :)
CP
Charles,
no idea really. I tend to lock the doors… bad habit… good for practising the survival mode in the civilised world tough… glad I don’t get claustrophobia…
Good night from Europe!
Reimar
ALL
I am off tomorrow (Thursday) morning to San Diego, California for a photo shoot so will not be around here very much for the next two and a half weeks. This is the personal project I mentioned earlier, the one featuring a gay couple who have been dear friends of mine for years. Sweetest guys in the world. I’ll be living with them so will be shooting 24/7. Can’t wait to get into it!
And I have Reimar to thank for helping me rethink my earlier decision to work in b&w. I showed him four pics I’d taken when Scott and Phil were in town in October for a family wedding. After seeing them in b&w, Reimar gently asked, “So why are you doing this in b&w when you handle color so well?” When I went back and looked at the original color shots, I saw that he was right. So color it will be.
I am SO EXCITED!!!!
Patricia
go for it Patricia…:)))))))))
Patricia. You will do a fine job. Black and white or color are just a stylistic choice. Putting your heart in it is what counts. As I said, you will do a fine job.
john.
Looking forward to seeing the results.
DAH
but you’re in brazil…….
go out dancing….
and
shooting….
there lies the magic…..
you will look dashing in the tux….
worth every penny…..
want a photo of that!!!
Your quiet NC life will be here on your return….
VIVA!!!
***
Patricia
I too, look forward to seeing your work….
Safe travels….
**
DAH
we don’t even have a door key here! seriously.
well we do have a key somewhere buy only use it if we go
away for more than a day.
not that i suggest you try that in Rio… just made me realise something
special about where i am at! However i do suggest you try a Samba while
working those keys, it may help ; )
things a little better…figured out how to work one of the keys…temp down to 90F…whoever recommended a cold beer had a good idea…some say Madonna will show up at the black tie ball….fixers came around and we will go through a kind of a dress rehearsal for the weekend…security issues etc…joined my son Bryan and we working together on the docu (of course he will not let me get away with anything….only fair…his girlfriend Michelle coming down too and she won’t let him get away with anything!)..hmmmm, i guess this is my life…
JOHN G…
let us know how Magnesium works out…i am a bit upset that you let them get a hold of your Hyde Park work before i did, but it is a dog eat dog world out there after all…what did i just say just two days ago about not ever being able to get angry with you?
PATRICIA…
best of luck on your gay couple project…like it…any chance for it here on Burn? (or, will you too drift away like John G.?)…will make contact with your friends in Rio..many thanks…
BOB…
again, thanks for your contacts as well…probably will not attempt call before carnival…just too too much going on…
WENDY…
cannot even fathom a tux in this heat….doing it just to see the ladies dressed up…by all accounts they go all out…i mean, carnival is about the ladies , right??
JOHN G.
smiling, you know…..
cheers, david
@ Erica…
I figured you were INxx….and have always been conscious of not trying to overwhem you with my ENTJ ;)
Hope all are well, Davin that you’ve recovered from the recent incident…Panos, congrats, what an opportunity….same for Audrey….
@All
not a very meaningful post, but on the road and wanted to say I am alive and watching….
If anyone reading is near the bluegrass area, please reach out to me….plans in the works for a photography event in the region…..
good light, all.
a.
ANDREW B…
got you covered dude…sometimes!!
Andrew, I’m down in Somerset :-)
I don’t have your e-mail address, but you can reach me at jmikelsmith [at] gmail.com
@DAH :) thanks. Glad to hear the locks are cooperating, the fixers are fixing and the beer is cold. Remind me to tell you the story of the zen master next time we meet, if you’re not familiar with it.
A tux in Rio? Somehow, I picture you more suitably attired in a white linen jacket, open shirt…you know, that casual James Bond-on-an-island look…..but of course, it depends on the setting. Whatever it is, I’m certain you will be entirely in synch. I expect no less than one-handed photos-while-dancing with Madonna :)
I’m trying to figure out a way to be in Austin for when you are there, but may not have time for the entire workshop. Looking to maybe come in and hang out and shoot on my own over the weekend…..would that be cool? also have reached out to M to make sure I keep up with all the US workshop dates….
@ emcd … look for email soonest – I sort of dropped off the map on you after our last convo – explanation and look-forward ideas will be within…
@ all any suggestions for tips on how to take advantage of work travel to shoot (when in work meetings all day) please email me….even little things that anyone has practiced to make it easier to actually get out…I find myself in different cities several times every month and yet not venturing out to take advantage. Of course, it could be as simple as “just go do it”….
good light, all.
a.
Texas Congressman Charlie Wilson died today. He was quite a character.
If you’ve never seen the movie “Charlie Wilson’s War”, I recommend it….and if you do rent it, I suggest watching the included short “Who is Charlie Wilson” before watching the movie.
“These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world… and then we fucked up the endgame.” Charlie Wilson, on the story that was made into the movie.
Justin – was thinking of you but didn’t have your email – figured you’d see and respond. email on the way.
a.
Patricia;
Good luck with the shoot and most of all; have fun. I’m off for a few days over the weekend to shoot a 2 day horse trek for a mate. Should be fun; hooning around on 4×4’s to get the pics; me on a horse would be a sight for sore eyes. Me on a horse fumbling with lenses would be disastrous, an accident waiting to happen! Just the thought would have the local hospital A&E dept ordering extra stocks of plaster….
Cheers
Oh; and best of all; shooting in daylight for a change… Yee ha!
Patricia – I hope I get to see the results. Have fun and good luck.
DAVID. Smiling too. It has always been, and still is, my intention that BURN gets first look at The Finished essay. I had to put a teaser of four up to show faith(and get something strong and current on show). the full body of work is still very much an ongoing thing.
Drift away? I think not :)
JOHN
David,
Hope your problems will be solved soon, Have a great time on the assignment/family trip! :)
sending you a good vibrations
DAVID AH
i can empathize wholeheartedly..
good luck..
i was pretty much in a joking mood yesterday …. those kinds of problems are not really problems…safety, security, crime, is the only real problem in Rio and is not a problem unless it becomes one…the stories from the locals here will make your blood curdle…and the el Globo journalist who was caught sneaking pics in the favela who was tortured into slow death for over 24 hours with a samurai sword/fire etc etc for his “crimes” gives pause…i think his problem was “sneaking” pics and perhaps just being from el Globo….
we are doing a survey of the carnival main scene today..inside the Sambadromo is totally safe…once outside you are on your own….anyway, having a plan i think helps as well as some good security employed which everyone recommends in our case…i do point out however that the two thefts i have had in Brazil fiestas happened with security guards within inches of me….one Leica cut from my neck a few years ago and the SB800 just a few weeks ago on New Year’s Eve…but i do not even see theft as a real problem…that is the least of our worries….
all of this stuff is totally normal for me…but, i am happy when i get down to the actual photography….sometimes far far away….getting there is always the hardest part…
JOHN G…
yes, of course …i know, i know…we are ready when you are…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GONZO:_Photographs_By_Hunter_S._Thompson
http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/0978607600/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0
never knew about that.. looks interesting..
DAH,
I sent through some info on favelas via email. Just checking you are collecting.
cheers
Ian
250usd used :ø(
not cheap..:(
Catching up with yesterdays thread, I see that some folk are suffering the tortures of the damned in tropical climes. Well, sorry to rub it in, but the weather here in the Northeast U.S. has been fantastic. Here’s a few snapshots from yesterday that may cool you off a bit.
There is a very reasonably priced reprint (not the limited edition with the numbered print) here:
http://www.amazon.com/Gonzo-Hunter-S-Thompson-Literary/dp/1934429449/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0
michael – new york look so claustrophobic in the snow.. with low visability..
up on our mountain in norway we´re ending our 2nd month of the white stuff, yet winter is flying by.. rain n snow in teh u.k. made it drag.
heavy weather in a city is so much heavier than heavy weather elsewhere..
nice work.
DAH – I have a black tie event to go to this month and have nothing to wear, must shop…can you send reports of what people are wearing? do the men really have to wear a tux or can it be a nice suit? what are the non carnivalesques women wearing? all long? all black? Be sure you get photographed in your tux…with cowboy boots?
andrew b – even my “J”, the one thing we have in common, was on the fence, ’twas nearly an F :) but please please please get some kind of permission to shoot IN the workplaces…talk about opportunity, access…this is an essay I want to see.
patricia – safe and fruitful voyage!
andrew – meant a p not a f, you get my drift…
Andrewb,
thinking along same lines as emcd.
Shoot meetings, workplaces,people at work,coffee breaks, commutting the general work experience. What great access you will get. There are not alot of budding/emerging/emerged photogs out there who have the same access as you. Look what doug menuez did with archive of pics when he had access to the founding of apple.
You said it GOYA
best of luck
ian
andrew b.
good suggestions above.. really.. normal being relative your life is way out odd to some :ø)
otherwise – a simple theme might do it..
something you always do.. always see..
airort life? moterway life?
i love martin parrs take on the M1 moterway in the u.k., which he shot at service stations all the way up it and ended up exhibiting in them as well
Gordon
am jumping over here from the Ballen thread as I don’t want to go off too much, but I wanted to share with you re: your thoughts on Arbus’ work (“carefully and deliberatly depicting each subject as absolutely pathetic”) of course I know what you are referencing, but I have never felt this way about her intentions. I have spent a great deal of time with her work and with her words, but more importantly (to me) I feel I understand her as a person and as an artist, and I don’t think she was acting from a place of cruelty, but from a humanistic desire to experience and understand that which was beyond her (and her sheltered childhood privilege) but also in her, and by a kind of intimate fascination and excitement…the “dwarf” was someone she photographed for some ten years – these were people who were in the fabric of her being and she, I assume, was in theirs, and her language, tho distasteful (freaks, dwarfs) was a refection of her upbringing and the non pc time in which she lived, as well as her insistence on transparency. I think that any of us who work in this vein are going to be at odds with our reasons for doing so – there will always be an aspect of the work that is manipulative and driven by what the photographer wants, by what I want. Arbus recognized that she herself was “kind of two faced,” saying that her behavior around the people she was photographing sometimes could really annoy her, that she could act too nice:
“I hear myself saying, ‘How terrific.’ and here’s this woman making a face. I really mean it’s terrific, I don’t mean I wish I looked like that. I don’t mean I wish my children looked like that. I don’t mean in my private life I want to kiss you. But I mean that’s amazingly, undeniably something. There are always two things that happen; one is recognition and the other is that it is totally peculiar. But there is some sense in which I always identify with them…another thing is that a photograph has to be specific. I remember a long time ago when I first began to photograph I thought there are an awful lot of people in the world and it’s going to be terribly hard to photograph all of them, so if I photograph some kind of generalized human being everybody will recognize it. It will be like what they used to call ‘the common man’…it was my teacher, Lisette Model who finally made it clear to me that the more specific you are the more general it will be. You really have to face that thing, and there are certain evasions, certain nicenesses, that I think you have to get out of…it’s a little bit cold, a little bit harsh…but in a way this scrutiny has to do with not evading facts…’freaks’ was a thing i photographed a lot…I just used to adore them, i still do adore some of them. I don’t quite mean they are my best friends…(but) most people go through life dreading they’ll have a traumatic experience; freaks were born with their trauma. They’ve already passed their test in life. They’re aristocrats. ”
I see her seeking as noble; that she was willing to look directly at her limitations and to use them toward understanding, and that she held the experiences themselves of connecting with the people as greater than the photos, makes her someone to live up to in my book.
I LOVE YOU BURNIANS…
Civilian is traveling …I am going east …this time…
BURNIANS in ATHENS …please, let me know ASAP…I am coming over…!!!
I will be back…
emcd
I have no objection to Arbus’ choice of subjects, but mostly to the brutal way she chose to photograph them. With a combination of the crude photographic technique, often direct flash, set to overpower the natural light, and the choice of moment, point of view etc, she deliberately set out to create ugliness and make her trusting subjects, happy for the rare attention, appear pathetic.
What is dis-honest about that is that I doubt her subjects expected to be depicted that way.
Arbus clearly had her own mental health issues. To view her work is also to see the world through her eyes, and what a dark anguished world that must have been. The photographs tell much more about her than the subjects. It is a major part of what makes her work compelling.
As I mentioned before, it is hard to stop looking, it’s not polite to stare at such people, with a book in front of us and the “art” label, we can indulge.
Absolutely not someone to look up to in my book.
a
Gordon – I guess we will disagree – I see no ugliness depicted nor do I expect her world felt any more anguished than my own…
While we are on the subject of Arbus, here is her brother’s elegy for her —
To D-, Dead by Her Own Hand
BY HOWARD NEMEROV
My dear, I wonder if before the end
You ever thought about a children’s game—
I’m sure you must have played it too—in which
You ran along a narrow garden wall
Pretending it to be a mountain ledge
So steep a snowy darkness fell away
On either side to deeps invisible;
And when you felt your balance being lost
You jumped because you feared to fall, and thought
For only an instant: That was when I died.
That was a life ago. And now you’ve gone,
Who would no longer play the grown-ups’ game
Where, balanced on the ledge above the dark,
You go on running and you don’t look down,
Nor ever jump because you fear to fall.
Preston, I hadn’t read that before, but that’s it I think, we choose to keep on with the the grown-ups’ game, and she chose otherwise.
emcd
Some of Daniel Oppenheimers essay on Arbus http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/arbus.html
“Finally, there is the question, both implicit in her photographs and central to her biography: Why did they let her do this to them? Why did the transvestite bring her home to his apartment and allow her to expose his un-normalcy — what at the time would have been called deviancy — to the world? Why did the institutions allow her access to the retarded under their care, and to what extent could the retarded have given consent? Did the “normal” people she photographed know that she would catch them precisely at the moment when, for whatever reason, they looked most freakish?
Photographs, writes Sontag, tend to diminish and atomize experience. They inure us, through repetition, to horror. They protect us, and distance us, from the valuable anxiety of unfamiliar places and situations. They misrepresent themselves as reality, as capturing the essence, in two dimensions, of a world that is four-dimensional (the fourth dimension, in particular, being slighted). “Photography,” she writes, “implies that we know about the world if we accept it as the camera records it. But this is the opposite of understanding, which starts from not accepting the world as it looks.”
Arbus’ photos are for Sontag the worst kind of perpetrators of this fraud: unhistorical, unpolitical, unrealistic portraits that masquerade as precisely the opposite.
To Sontag, Arbus was a voyeur from the Upper West Side, a coddled depressive, a disillusioned fashion photographer, an emotional midget with an exquisite eye who sought out the marginal and the sensational because, in habituating herself to their horror, she hoped to numb her own pain. She is emblematic of the paradox of photography, that “a pseudo-familiarity with the horrible reinforces alienation, making one less able to react in real life.” Arbus’ suicide, from this perspective, becomes not a proof of her sincerity, as others have read it, but a consequence of her compulsive insincerity. “
Sontag has done more to damage photography as intellectual discourse than any other writer.
I see neither ‘horror nor horrible’ to start with, so to me Sontag’s whole argument is flawed – and if you reread Arbus’ own words, I don’t think she saw horror either, but “aristocrats, people who have passed their test”: better than her self
Antios Alexander McQueen …
SPACECOWBOY is waiting …over :)))
VIVA ARBUS and SONTAG…VIVA ALLL
I also think that Arbus could not have worked anywhere but New York. The idea that it’s odd for New Yorkers to bare their souls to total strangers is propagated by people who haven’t lived here. This is life in The City — and Arbus worked here in the 1960s, when ideas about what was proper and correct were breaking down generally. And in the 1960s, the Upper West Side was not a bastion of privilege but a crummy no-man’s-land populated by bohemians and students seeking lower rents. Yes, she was the daughter of a wealthy department store magnate, but at the time there was a big difference between WASP privilege and immigrant Jewish privilege (and Sontag knew this — I think Oppenheimer is overreaching in his assessment of her opinion of Arbus).
Arbus was a difficult photographer and difficult soul — but by all accounts a disarming persona who had the ability to put people immediately at ease. So why not read her photos as studies in empathy by someone whose demons were not visible to a camera? There is a long and revered tradition in American literature of fascination with freaks, misfits, and deviants. In fact, it is a dominant strand of American letters, from Twain to Flannery O’Connor and Tennessee Williams to the Beat Poets to Philip Roth. Such fascination also dominates American cinema. Obsession with the abnormal is, well, normal.
Why, then, do Arbus photos STILL make people queasy?
ERICA…
i have spent some time discussing Diane with her daughter Amy…surely Diane was tortured…please remember how she left us…
cheers, david
dunno.
when I was at the retrospective, I saw that some people had a hard time looking at her work, and naive / sheltered as I was about her, that was the absolute first time it ever occurred to me that some people didn’t understand her motive (studies in empathy or something close)…I knew some people didn’t like her work of course, but I hadn’t realized that this was a major reason why…I see connection and a form of adoration
David..
Yes, I do remember that, but I am not convinced she was more tortured than many other artists who for one reason or another don’t leave us. But I would mean a lot to me to hear more sometime, if appropriate. Personally, you somehow seem to be in such a lovely groove where life and photography bring an integral satisfaction without too much angst, but suicide among artists is not exactly uncommon, and for all those who do take their lives there are many more who hang on despite the urge to do otherwise…
“Did the “normal” people she photographed know that she would catch them precisely at the moment when, for whatever reason, they looked most freakish?”
emcd
for the life of me I cannot see a healthy connection or adoration in this approach.
Gordon – i don’t see freakish, in any of them, so I think the statement (“Did the “normal” people she photographed know that she would catch them precisely at the moment when, for whatever reason, they looked most freakish?”) is based on a something false to begin with…i see, rather I FEEL, connection and adoration in this work, in the same way had i been there and had fallen in love too
ERICA…
i had lots of angst as a child which went from negative to positive somehow…mostly because of my family i am sure..plus, somehow lucked out and learned how to control it or live with it or spin it or whatever…there is a dark side in me too, but i can keep it compartmentalized i think…i do have some work coming which does explore not so much the dark side, but surely another side..i have more to do…i do not want to leave any stone unturned when it comes to having it all in my work…that is all any of us can do…i guess for some the demons get control….i made friends with my demons..or something like that…
i think it is very much like that…darkness can breed darkness and become a force that is hard to return from, or the darkness can be faced, known, channelled and used but not take over…i wish all of of the strength for the latter
okay, must walk away from the box and seek my own balance
Hi David. Good to hear you in the southern hemisphere.
That point about demons, and recognizing them, I think is the real essence in art, as this is what we all, every single one of us has to deal with and therefore, every single one of us is curious, and wants to know how others understand it, and handle it.
I know your too busy now, and I assume will be for quiet a while, but I just like to let you know I’m starting to make head-ways in to putting up some of my work on the photoshelter web site. I have about 30 odd folders up there now, but fear it will become as disorganized as my desktop? So have about a 1,000 images up but as its still only a fraction of my archive I fear I’m loosing sight of what I should be doing..
I’m going to get a SKYPE thingy up soon, so will be truly ready for your eye and thoughts..
Stay safe buddy..
cheers. Peter.
I’d be interested in why exactly you insist that your own work is not photography when it seems obvious to me that it certainly is,,,,,,, Gordon you never called my (Bum not as is person mute) essay photography, just referred to it as a piece and images. My other work is no different to what I do with a camera, computer etc
one to make the good guys look good over at the other thread http://www.artouko.com/imi.htm
On a completley different note…..
UK photographers should check this erosion of rights out with the digital economy bill and write to your MP or send a link and explanation.
http://copyrightaction.com/forum/uk-gov-nationalises-orphans-and-bans-non-consensual-photography-in-public
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/
Cheers
ian
Immants got to love you for your tenacity :-))
one week, then the long screw gets out, and I am allowed to start walking: http://flic.kr/p/7CwNoS
Hey Thomas, so what happened with Aperture? I downloaded the trial but am not liking it. I think a big part of it may be unfamiliarity with the controls, I can get better results much faster in Photoshop. But there are other issues. For example, I edit in 16 bit Lab color and can’t find how to do that with Aperture. That’s too bad. I want to like it because I need better workflow management software, but so far can’t see it as a viable alternative to Photoshop and Bridge. Yes, I know it’s not a Photoshop replacement, but I rarely do more than tweak the curve, rotate, crop, and maybe clone out a few dust spots, all of which is pretty basic and I would like to be able to do in something like Aperture.
Yay Thomas. fun pic of the x-ray.
Michael,
I already have Aperture 2.0 – still waiting for the upgrade. Hopfully, it arrives tomorrow.
Aperture always edits in 16bit. I rarely use Photoshop since I started using Aperture and Lightroom. (Lightroom 3/beta might be worth a look for you)
You also might be interested in this blog:
http://aperture.maccreate.com/
My complete assetmanagement is in aperture (live) and lightroom (archive). I hope the aperture library won’t grow that big in 3.0, to get rid of one.
Gordon,
:) Looks like they implemented a hardware store in my leg.
emcd…funny about the meyers-briggs score. Once again opposite of your results, all of mine scores were way towards one sid eor the other – no borderline middle grounds. The one that threw me initially was the iNtuitive….being one who obsessively researches things (for instance, before buying) I figured I was about as far from intuitive as one could be….my pshychologist brother-in-law, when answering my question about it said “of course you’re intuitive – you decide what you want or feel almost immediately….the research is all just to justify or back up your initial intuition”. Made sense.
I think much more revealing was another test, forget what it’s called, but it maps you into 4 attributes that are color coded…I discovered in that one why I can typically take a one sentence email and not only write the movie around it’s meaning, but come up with the soundtrack, too :)
Thanks emcd, Ian, and David for the ideas on work….I’ve thought abou thte workplace one, but in my business (information security), I have very strict confidentiality requirements both with my employer and my clients….even though my clients are, in general, names each of you would recognize and probably have visited (physically or electrnically) in the last month, I cannot even refer to them by name…even oblique terms like “largest retailer” might get me in trouble.
David B – the themes idea is one which I think has potential….i have already been taking shots of my business travel – lots of airports and hotels….another side aspect of my work is that it is “lonely” travel. Unlike sales or marketing folks who generally travel in groups and entertain clients and prospects, I typically am traveling alone and don’t, as a rule, entertain or socialize with my clients to any great extent (of course there are exceptions). I’m usually telling clients what they are doing wrong or what they need to do to be in compliance or be secure – often to the tune of costing them significan’t $$$….as much as I focus on it being a positive engagement, it’s still a hassle for them. Usually it’s me, my camera, a book and my iPhone in some city trying to figure out something to do in the evening. I try to keep that part (the solitude) compartmentalized, but sometimes it is overpowering….and it’s then I try to capture it…
Anyway, thank you all for the ideas…tis nice to be back in the room with you all…
good light,
a
Thomas, you should see my back x-rays, titanium man.
Today I am walking like THOMAS and I look like DAVIDB’S Derry…
dandaratam…I can read only the latest posts:((( information security…ANDREWB,my man!!!
I am speechless…
CAN I SAY …I LOVE YOU… I need something spicy…is JIMMY ok???
Can someone Skype him…and I miss so many of YOU…KATIE FONSECA,the one Street Fighter,MyGRACIE,ourPATRICIA in California,
WENDY,HAIK,LASSAL,AUDREY,MICHAELK,ANDREAC,SIDNEY…………..
…………………
…………………
damdarammmm…yoyo
BURN my image in your drive.
I am just a pixel on your screen,
yo,yo …BURN my image
I am just an image in your disk
yo,yo…yo,yo
from Civi
P.S I am away from my desk …hmmm…almost a month now…
don’t push me to be back :))) yo-yo BURN
My comment is awaiting moderation…hihihhhhhhhhhi…
I haven’t seen that for a while…
yo, yo, I love you ALL
Gordon, that sounds serious. How come?
Am I in???
Thomas, I saw your XRAY. Man, what a crazy sight! it looks like they’ve installed a hinge and used a million too many screws! wow.. I hope you heal up soon. and I hope that it isn’t too painful.
MICHAEL WEBSTER. If you go on a job and shoot 3000 frames, and need to quickly do a ‘sort the wheat from the chaff’,and then add a bunch of exif, and then want to make general tweaks and tone curve adjusts, and then make lots of different sized pegs and tiffs to post off to eager people who might want to give you money………and you want to be able to do ALL that easily, in BATCH MODE, from one window, in one lifetime…….Aperture or lightroom are probably the way to go.
Photoshop is a non starter for batch operations like this (although you can find some of them buried in the menus)..(ACR is good but bogs down with more than say 20 images to work up)
Bridge copes better, but only gives you half the functionality.
Most cameras proprietry software also allows you to do all…….but mostly they suck.
Aperture and lighroom both also let you print natively from the RAW file.
Horses for courses.
okay tecchie alert over.
Thomas, long boring story that just sounds too much like whining to recount. Two titanium rods up either side of my lumbar anchored by screws into the vertebrae.
Serious chronic health issues are in some ways a gift to us and shape who we are. It helps us sort out what is truly important, and reminds us how fragile and precious our health and our lives are. I’m just thankful to wake up on the right side of the grass every morning.
Your situation I’m sure has given you a whole new perspective, plus you’ve probably gotten out of having to take out the trash :)
I do love my life
Oh my God, this is SO MUCH FUN!!! I’ve already got hundreds of shots and a few definite keepers and I’ve only been in San Diego 24 hours! Every waking minute there’s something to capture. Like a few minutes ago, I was at the computer downloading pics when Scott called out, “Hey, Patricia, I’m going to shave now.” I was there in a second! And got some great shots. Lucky me. He has a beard and only shaves once a week and today was the day! Not only that, he uses lather and a straight-edged razor. The best! And I could get a good angle on him both in the bathroom mirror with light from the window highlighting his bare back. Whoopee!!! As my southern mom used to say, “I am in dog heaven!”
And of course I’ll be working on an edit for Burn after I get back home in March. I’m also making audio digital recordings. Made one at their church choir rehearsal last night. This will be multimedia if I can figure out how to do it. More later…
Patricia
P.S. Reimar, you were right. This is definitely a color project ;=)
Patricia
You are an absolute marvel and an inspiration. I cannot wait to see and hear what you have done.
I’ll bet you’re a scream to hang out with.
This may be of interest:
Uprooted from the Real: Photographers without a stance
Blogs
Max Houghton
12 Feb 2010……
http://www.foto8.com/new/online/blog/1119-uprooted-from-the-real-photographers-without-a-stance
From srinivaskuruganti’s link:
Is it in fact not the case that documentary photography demands a moral position on the part of the photographer?
I’d say no, definitely not. Discernible moral positions are probably more of a hazard for producing good work than a necessity. I’m not saying one shouldn’t have moral positions, just that at some point documentary photography becomes propaganda if the photographer sees and shows only images that support his or her position. Triumph of the Will, I’d say, is a perfect example of documentary photography with a strong moral position.
Or maybe I’m unclear on the definition of documentary photography? I don’t see the term as synonymous with photojournalism. A photojournalist may have an editorial slant on a story; it may even be part of the assignment. Though the same danger of crossing the line into crass propaganda applies. If your job is to shoot corporate pollution in the Catskills, you’re probably not going to show unpolluted tracts in the area. But if you are doing documentary photography, you’d show whatever is there. And I’d guess that more often than not, approaching something like that from an amoral position would likely have more of a moral impact. There’s nothing easier to close the mind to than discernible propaganda.
And you never know how something will be received. Look at Elliott Erwitt’s photo of Nixon and Khrushchev wherein Nixon stabs Khrushchev in the chest with his index finger. Erwitt disliked Nixon and everything he stood for. That photo, in Erwitt’s mind, illustrated Nixon being a petty dickhead. Yet it became an integral part of Nixon’s campaign, gave him credibility he didn’t deserve and helped launch the career of William Safire.
The way I see it, good documentary photography should simply document, at least from a moral perspective. I’m okay with visual complexity or point of view. No reason documentary photography can’t be framed in such a way as to make it interesting to look at, or even pursued impressionistically. But ultimately, a discernible moral position is not necessary ingredient for communicating moral points of view. It may even hinder it.
Of course I think those things, but don’t always act that way. Most of what I do fits into some kind of moral story, or story with moral over or undertones, and I am more likely to see compositions that reinforce beliefs, but I think, and think I can see that the less discernible all that is, the better.
i think this quote from frank is closer to the truth
¨”Above all, I know that life for a photographer cannot be a matter of indifference”
whether that translates into a moral position is one to think about, yet i know that in the moment standing in front of something we have to make decisions based upon who we are.. if we continue to stand there, metaphorically, over a period of time – then i guess we have an investment morally.. a belief we are expressing.. and you could implant the word ¨documentary¨ to the frank quote.
to me, photojournalists who self assign long projects are a rare bunch – they are the ones i would call documentary photographers.
most PJ´s n stringers take the factual route of standing at *10 downing street or in haiti* and waiting for the *PM or broken childs toy* to appear in front of them..
to me these are the classic photojournalists – much more of a methodical recording of the facts with very little input, bar bending your first finger..
photographers, or documentary photographers, i think grant themselves an emotional attachment to what they are standing in front of..
i´d be interested in john vinks response, since he is right now pushing the land rights issues he has been documenting / reporting on ..
young man vink cannot be indifferent to the land issues he sees.. cannot ignore..
does he have a moral position? i think – yes..
is it ¨needed¨ for him to work? perhaps not.. he could easy record land issues without going to the extraordinary lengths he does… he could just bang off a roll / few GB of one place and fill the papers brief.. perhaps he ´appeals´ to us more.. not ¨propaganda¨ as such, but certainly appealing to our better nature.
john V – do you perceive yourself as a documentary snapper or a PJ? a blend?
taking a moral position is much more of a choice i think and goes beyond simply witnessing.
witnessing, or straight PJ, is hired eye work.. and requires no emotional exertion on behalf of the photographer, only an ability to fill brief, be there and meet deadline..
i think to document over time it is impossible to NOT become involved and have a position morally..
now..
derry city..
extremely high suicide rate in young men.
mass unemployment..
all the trappings of a place still recovering from war..
so i choose to propagandize with positive press as a documentarien.. because i want business, tourists and the general public to view the place for what it is.. as i see it.. a warm, progressive and beautifil city in an utterly stunning geography which has been barely known about since the PJ´s practiced their war photography there in the 70´s…
propaganda? or am i fulfilling a moral duty to do the best i can by the people who live there?
i think that while a PJ does not need a moral position, a documentary photographer cannot remain indifferent..
i´ve taken a stance on what i see, seen as who i am, knowing as i do what is needed and what is not..
relatively speaking the result is a moral position..
then again – i also like this quote
¨’So shines a good deed in a weary world.’
– Willy-Wonka
I like Mr Erwitt’s Nixon and Khrushchev picture, if only because I’ve heard that just after Nixon poked him, Khrushchev told him to go fuck his grandmother. I’m sure the interpreter put a more diplomatic gloss on this Soviet demand, but still, I like the idea of someone telling a big shot to his face to go fuck his grandmother, but then, I am easily amused.
this cracks me up..
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/zoriahs-haiti-workshop-ideas-and-direction
SATURDAY NIGHT
for all the pappas with a past in the house..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PK-WOtaFyE
and for all the mammas with memories..
CIVI….
*******Happy Happy Birthday******* :)))))
Hmmm…
HAPPY BIRTHDAY… AUDREY, from your photos …I am getting a sensitive BUT strong “voice”
incredible combination…like a silent power…with no this and that, with no blah,blah …
I know …I don’t make sense BUT …i LOVE U…
AND i love you ALL BURNIANS…yes, I do …in a weird civilian way…I feel your struggles,
your anxieties,your happy days, your frustration, your excitement …
only this I have to say … consider me …a friendly civilian
THANK YOU.
P.S I am going through weird self examination …lately…BUT …I am always here…
your PHOTOS are my vision …VIVA !!!
I’ll second the happy birthday. Your support and enthusiasm are always appreciated. As for self-examination, weird is probably good. Who would want to go through a normal,conventional one? What would be the point? Much less a brutal one.
David Bowen, I realize that any blanket statement about moral photography is going to be rife with exceptions. How to phrase this? I’m not belittling photographers who have a moral purpose for pursuing particular projects. I’m not even sure that it’s possible not to have some kind of moral purpose. But from obvious to opaque messaging, I suspect that in general the more powerful and lasting work mostly falls on the “not easily discernible moral message” side of the continuum.
From what I’ve seen of your Derry work, which admittedly is not much, I’ve noticed no easily discernible moral message in the images and would not be aware of one without accompanying text. As I alluded to in the other thread, I believe — or at least desperately want to believe, that moral intent adds a visually indefinable depth to otherwise strong images. That may be the case with my appreciation of your work. A few people noted they thought your images were insubstantial. I could see myself seeing it that way, but hopefully the fact that I didn’t speaks to the underling depth.
But I’m not sure I’d count on that, were I contemplating such a project. I don’t know if you have images that allude to the war torn past you’re talking about, but if you want to tell that story visually, you may want to consider adding some, if possible. It’s difficult to see a contrast, to know that these images of a rave have additional significance compared to, say, a rave in Los Angeles, if no historical contrast is available.
But back to the question of moral indifference and documentary photography, I think David Harvey’s work, to take the obvious example in these parts, demonstrates that a documentary photographer can do great work without taking an obvious moral stance. I’m sure a lot of people would think he’s something of a monster. Drug dealers and gangsters cause a lot of misery in this world. Why don’t his photos condemn that? Or maybe you’re more politically aware? The wealthy cause devastation far beyond what’s accomplished by any gangster in the hood. Why does Harvey show them comfortable in their privileged environment? He makes them seem like decent folk. At least relatively normal. Both the rich and the poor. Why aren’t these people condemned? By not condemning them, isn’t he glorifying them?
Dangerous path, moralizing, eh? How many inquisitions have been justified by that kind of thinking? How many book burnings? How many triumphs of the will?
Anyway, I don’t doubt that David H. has moral beliefs about the scenes he photographs. I doubt he could produce the work he does without them. But whatever those moral beliefs are, they are not obvious in the work and I think that makes the images exponentially more powerful. Both as documentary photography and as art. Same goes for Ballen, imo.
Does that make more sense?
MICHAEL WEBSTER,
I like your Cold and Pointless…i might be wrong BUT I think JIM would love your photos.
OUZO for everyone !!! on the house …right MR.HARVEY ???
I just checked my mail box !!!
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
from my civilian heart …
to all of you …I have only this to say…hmmm…I forgot it
I will be back
“To be nobody but yourself in a world that’s doing its best to make you somebody else, is to fight the hardest battle you are ever going to fight. Never stop fighting.”
E. E. Cummings (American poet 1894-1962)
ok, SPACECOWBOY told me that I better say this …
TODAY OUZO on me !!! Come on BURNIANS…smile…it’s my birthday …
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
oh…and let me tell u this…
Your Greek house is still here …waiting for you….
I know Greek economy is …going down BUT the Greek spirit is UP…
that’s the law of the Universe…whatever goes down …goes up…
and Up …goes down….BUT …I am holding strong…I have homemade bread,
some real chickens, olive oil…and wine from the grapes…
P.S KATIE …my landscape is looking good… I LOVE my life…like MR.GORDON :)))
DANCE for me BURNIANS…and for MR.HARVEY …please call mama…VIVA !!!
hi michael.
the moral angle i have with derry is more with the distribution of photos and the kind of press i am willing to submit the work to..
this is why i had to think very hard about publishing here in the context i have with the words.. i have never mentioned the war in any press i have gained either in u.s. or u.k. publication.. i want the work to be part of the antidote being worked hard for by the promoters in the city.
i do have photos of derelict buildings in bogside.. more.. remnants of the past and so on, yet i have only been interested is positive press which can bring a new perspective to the city..
i remember on lightstalkers some time ago – someone made a post regarding the north of ireland asking if it was safe to work unhindered in the streets..
my first trip over was somewhat nerve wracking on the plane – and that feeling disappeared soon as i met the people and blended in..
the moral responsibility i feel is to view the place with an open heart and respond to what is there.. what i feel connected to.. rather than impose a story on the place..
react to what is there, rather than preconceive what i want to see and then look for it.. goodness knows people in the north of ireland are sick of being boxed into a point of view.. the hangover from the the way the media abandons a place once it moves on, and leaves the public believing the worst.
of all the difficult social problems in the north of ireland, continuing to report on the place in those terms is counter productive.. wrong in a sense, especially as an outsider looking in :o)
perhaps in a greater body of work i would be able to show a little more..
for a photographic audience perhaps i could..
yet i am acutely aware of the cliches.. of people who still go there looking for a little -tough- story to fill a room on their website.. the people i know there are tired of their home being a social humanitarians playground.
i have always worked towards gaining press, rather than simply working to fill a website room, and in doing so over time i feel aware of a responsibility to do my best.. a moral responsibility, perhaps, to help in the way i can.
:o)
regarding david AH=s work.. gands.. drugs.. more..
i-ve photographed some horrible people.. over time..
anyway.
i read a quote on marina blacks facebook today..
“If only there were evil people out there insidiously committing evil deeds and it was only necessary to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing Good and Evil cut through the heart of every human being, and who among us is willing to destroy a piece of their own heart?” Soljenitzin
everyone is a human being and while it is possible to have an opinion on someones actions, perhaps it is a moral stance to view all equally through the camera?
there but for the grace of god,,,, and so on..
it-s interesting – be good to see what dah says.
civi
:o)
:oO
;o]
:o}
:o)
gratulare med dagen again..
drinking to you..
was a warm clear day when you joined us condemned addicts here in rehab.
OO
David Bowen
I love Marinas’ Soljenitzen quote.
I like your Cold and Pointless…i might be wrong BUT I think JIM would love your photos.
Thanks. Jim who?
it-s interesting – be good to see what dah says.
Well, if the past is any indication, he may have read my words in precisely the opposite way that I meant them. So just in case–those criticisms of your non-judgmental style, David–that was my straw man talking, not me.
“most PJ´s n stringers take the factual route of standing at *10 downing street or in haiti* and waiting for the *PM or broken childs toy* to appear in front of them..
to me these are the classic photojournalists – much more of a methodical recording of the facts with very little input, bar bending your first finger..”
I have been in some pretty illustrious company standing on various street corners around the world, and been elbowed out of the way by several of them to get to that “childs toy”…perhaps those famous documentary photographers were lowering themselves to photojournalism as you see it David?
As I said I like the Derry work and feel you are the better man for NOT trying add gravitas to the work by tacking it on to the war.
BTW What I do when I’m not standing on a street corner
http://www.abc.net.au/arts/stories/s2818198.htm
CIVI, CIVI, CIVI,
Happy Happy Happy Birthday!!!
Three cheers and an ouzo, vino
and hoppy toast to you.
Stomp some grapes and squeeze olives
for your celebration!!!
Glen
Fascinating stuff. You’re a busy guy.
Glen so that’s your ABC voice
Glenn, cool, do you also print them (wet darkroom I mean)?
Glen. Lovely work. Funny, I looked in my local used camera shop the other day and they had 2 xpans up for sale. I was tempted to get one then….a bit more now :)
John
Hi All,
Not sure if any of the UK based photographers saw this, but it is a mega important issue for us as photographers, so I am going to repost the link. In 6 weeks this bill is due to be passed, which will effectively mean that virtually any image that is posted onto the internet could become an orphan work and therefore anyone can use it at no cost.
http://copyrightaction.com/forum/uk-gov-nationalises-orphans-and-bans-non-consensual-photography-in-public
heers
ian
Xpans are great, tough, great lenses, small, choice of pano or 35mm. I am still clinging onto mine.
Nice work Glen.
Cheers
http://web.orange.co.uk/article/news/all_in_one_camera_designed gotta be better than a ipad
I wonder if you guys across the pond can see this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk1WkmioQvA&feature=related
I heartily recommend watching the whole series..in fact all his work is interesting.
GLENN,
Terrific, mate! Love the vid, love the voiceover, love the B+W Expan pics, and love the exhibition space you managed to corral. Noice to see the bloke hisself too, and hear it from the horse’s mouth. Good onya.
likewise glenn – you’ve always come across as the real-deal and the video does you proud..
lovely work.. venue.. intentions..
i learn’t something.
d
also glenn – i don’t think PJ work is lower.. we all have to earfn a buck..
i just wonder if it takes less thought with regards to morals..
whats your thoughts?
especially with your indigenous work.. do you feel obliged morally to expand upon the cliches?
ALL
I am learning so much doing this photo essay, not only about Scott and Phil, my subjects, but about myself.
First of all, these two men are among the most loving, tolerant (of me & my ever-present camera), funny, balanced and creative persons I’ve ever met. They are true collaborators in the project and know, in ways I can only guess, the importance of showing gay marriage from the inside so that, hopefully, attitudes and laws can change. On Saturday evening I recorded our first audio interview and was moved beyond belief by how they spoke of their 22 years together and how much it has meant to be allowed to be married for the past three. But since Proposition 8 outlawed same sex marriages in California in November 2008, the right to marry is denied to all but the 18,000 Californians who had married while it was still legal. Prop 8 is in appeals courts now and will surely go to the Supreme Court, so the work Scott, Phil and I are doing here is more important than ever. This is the Civil Rights struggle of our times.
So, what am I doing with this essay? Just showing the day-to-day life of a gay couple. Sounds simple and in some ways it is. I mean I never have to search for subject matter — every waking minute offers new opportunities. What I am finding, though, is that it is exhausting to be shooting every waking moment. Trust me, I am no DAH! That man seems to be able to shoot and shoot and shoot and never tire. Never sleep, actually. Thank God, Scott and Phil DO sleep, so I get my almost eight hours most nights. But they never stop doing photo worthy things every minute that they are awake. Hell, they’ve even let me photograph them in bed, in the bathroom shaving and getting dressed, and everything else they do with their time. Phil is even going to let me come to his work and shoot him there. This really is amazing. And I’m only on Day 5 of a two-week stay!!!
As you can imagine, I already have well over 1000 downloaded photos. And yes, I am conscientously backing everything up as I go along, thanks to some horror stories shared here of late.
I really do feel incredibly grateful to have this opportunity. I also feel a deep sense of responsibility to do my best. This work is SO important.
Patricia
brother GLENN :)))
loved watching the vid…as U know, have always loved this series/project/idea and it’s great to see the pics up on the tunnel’s tongues…a good place for the pics :))))….
so lovely to hear ur voice too :))
hugs from me and m :))
running
b
Patricia — I’m glad things are going so well. There is no better feeling than immersing yourself totally in a story and being able to shoot freely and continually. So much of good photography is boredom — waiting hours and hours like a soldier for a few moments of trigger pulling. It’s great when you can shoot on your own terms.
Hi Glenn, I enjoyed the video as well. Looks like you’re doing some great work. Curious, though, if you’d mind expanding on the color vs. black and white decision you mentioned? The use of color, or not (I hate to phrase it color vs. b&w in a larger sense), is an ongoing topic here and one I find fascinating. I think you said you tried color for two years and found it unsatisfactory? Can’t say you didn’t try, and of course I’ve seen some of your color work and know you are very good at it. Just wondering what insights, if any, you gained through your efforts.
Patricia
I’m very excited for you. Can’t wait to see what you will come up with. You are the perfect person for this. Keep us posted.
Patricia,
good to hear everything is working fine. Enjoy!
Civi,
Happy birthday to you! Hope you had a nice day to celebrate! I will dance for you!
Glenn,
marvellous! Didn’t know there is a Xpan chrome ;-) It is a long time since I have been out in the bush, but all looked familiar to me. I can understand your decision to turn to b&w. Good choice in this case! The exhibtion looks excellent!
Today I was searching my wardrobe for summer clothes that I can wear in India and so I came across my Akubra hat. Ah, I have to wear it again some day, looks so nice! Maybe not in India ;-)
Best
Reimar
DAVID BOWEN Re “i just wonder if it takes less thought with regards to morals..”
things are probably easier if you don’t think about it too much but I did have a minor crisis covering the Sumatran Earthquake last year,given an assignment, Got there from Darwin, UN was allready there in force with tents, food, water and rescue units. There were precious few stories of survival and rescue after the first couple of days- There were bodies being brought to the makeshift morgue and photographers swarming every time someone came to open a body bag to identify a dead reative.
Feeling nauseated, I’m thinking ” what the fuck?”, This is an earthquake , not some terrorist attack where there is something to blame, to rally against – these poor folk , wrong place wrong time , it all felt like porn, death porn! and I lost something of myself!
BOB -Thanks Mate – been a while since we wrote , we should skype soon?
MICHAEL WEBSTER – Colour V BW for this project was the result of many mistakes and wrong turns, I was feeling for these forgotten landscapes and , my thoughts were’nt being articulated by the colour work so the switch to B & W was one of control and interpretation and the ammount of flexibility that my knowledge of B & W gave was really the start of producing the pictures that matched ( or in some case exceeded ) my intentions.
REIMAR – That is no chrome X pan , merely the result of a drunken mate with too much time on his hands and a 25 centavo coin.
BTW – some of the newer shots I took while making the doco are below
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/
Glenn; That doco was great, also the venue for the exhibition… You still in the wet season over there?
Hot Damn Hot :0
Hey Glenn, Nice work fella.
civi
happy birthday…..
another trip around the sun…..
xo
glenn c
great piece!!
photos in tunnels….
LOVE it!!!
***
Civi – I’m sorry I missed your birthday.
It happened to fall on the same day as my wedding anniversary and on that same day we performed a little ceremony from the Navajo side for my grandson that was born on the 12th.
I hope it was a good birthday.
Happy late birthday!
ALL
I’ve created a new blog called “which-one”, the idea came from Sam Harris. The point of the blog is to post similar photographs when you’re insecure which one to choose and then get comments from others. The blog can have up to 100 authors, so send me an e-mail (bjedvard@yahoo.no) if you’re interested in participating, there is room enough for YOU! I think this can work out great if we get enough people who can participate daily or at least weekly.
Currently there is nothing at the blog, but the URL is http://which–one.blogspot.com so you can bookmark it already now.
David B.
Sorry, was out in the bushes (not working on land issues, although…).
A blend David, a blend… Maybe I’m a documentary photojournalist?
Do have a moral position? Well yes, but I try not to show it too much ;-) I don’t want to moralise too much. It pisses people off. And finding that balance is one of the difficulties I encounter. When you piss people off or when you’re boring they avert their eyes. And what do you do next to convince someone that something is wrong and they stopped looking?
“is it ¨needed¨ for him to work? perhaps not.. he could easy record land issues without going to the extraordinary lengths he does…”: it is not so much that I need it or not. It is just that it is there somewhere and that I am not very good at doing something else (I tried but failed).
“witnessing, or straight PJ, is hired eye work.. “: in some ways I hire myself.
I was just sent a facebook invite to join
“Responsible Photojournalists against Zoriah’s $4k Photo Workshop in Haiti”
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=295183934647&ref=mf
The power of social media. NFI
PATRICIA…
sounds like terrific potential in this essay….and you really are the right one to do it…..main thing is , you are “in”…maintaining your energy level will now become the challenge…no, not the physical, but the mental…staying on it may get harder as the “newness” wears off and the familiarity sets in…this goes for both you and the couple…
the one thing i do not know, and you may have mentioned it somewhere earlier, is what exactly sets this couple apart? do you see doing this with other couples? i can imagine a fairly linear pj essay, portraits, or something a bit more edgy…in any case, i look forward to what you do with this one…
by the way, i am exhausted…three days with little or no sleep has me down down…
cheers, david
Thank you ALL the BURNIANS …for all your wishes and your love messages…
POMARA,FROSTFROG, WENDY AND ALL OF YOU IN THE BOOK OF NO FACE…
I AM IN AWE,speechless with all your support …but my Birthday is your birthday…
MR.HARVEY… only this I have to say…
WHATEVER IS GOING DOWN …IS GOING UP !!! ENJOY !!!
P.S As long as I live … I gonna try to BURN
Happy Birthday Burning, Civi!
:)
go to hell Civi… ;)
Hey Panos, where you been??
ahhh.. and speaking of hell…. 3 more days left for my trip to Istanbul assisting Nikos Economopoulos on his workshop… plz wish me luck and do we have any requests? questions? i will be there from the 21st to the 27th..mostly with no Internet (i guess but not sure)…so if anything plz lemme know either here or in person
(innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com)
peace out
(now time to catch up with Burn)
panos. istanbul is fantastic, you will love it….moustaches only on the men now :)
The internet is EVERYWHERE….well nearly.
John…last week after i moved once again from athens to a little ghost town up north..i was attending lots of “parties” (village gatherings etc)..accepting invitations..trying to blend with the grecolands..so to shoot…
& shoot..found old friends..brain dead family members…lots and lots of family drama in general…i got a few marriage proposals too…laughing…
Good morning all. Been checked out from Burn for a few days, thought I would start the day out with a little something to get the blood moving.
Panos,
Have fun in Istanbul, one of my all time fave cities. Have some kefta on me!
Did you see the istanbul gallery on my website? Have you seen Alex Webbs book? Amazing.
Try and get up really early and just wander.
Civi!
Happy Birthday from Seattle!
CP
as a BURNING Civilian …I have been to hell and I came back…:)))
let me tell you this … as long as I have you…all of you …I am in BURNING Universe…!!!
LOVE PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY …oime…VIVA and again VIVA…cause what left is a BURNING BURN…
Damnit I am BURNING…dance and do vigorous sex …shoot and fart…
I can only do my part …do yours …and the Universe will take care the rest…hmmmmm…
My apologies to the headquarters of BURN…I got carried away….
I forgot that …The bar has been raised…
LOVE u ALLLLLLLLLLL !!!
P.S I will be back …eternal soul searching …never ends…pifff
DAVID
Thanks so much for taking a bit of your precious time to respond to my post. You ask
“the one thing i do not know, and you may have mentioned it somewhere earlier, is what exactly sets this couple apart? do you see doing this with other couples?”
To me, the important thing about Scott and Phil is that nothing sets them apart from other gay couples. Just as nothing set me apart from other disabled persons in my self portrait project. It’s all about normalizing what some people see as abnormal, whether that be one’s sexual orientation or body abilities. And as of now, I see this as a portrait of this one couple and their day-to-day life rather than a gay-themed exploration of the lives of a number of couples.
When doing essays of persons other than myself, handicap accessability is always an issue, and we’ve now got Scott and Phil’s home perfectly accessible for me. And even though I know lots of gay and lesbian couples, many of them very well indeed, I can’t think of anyone else who is so suited to being photographed in this way as Scott and Phil. They really are perfect subjects. Not only do they live in a beautiful environment, have interesting lives and friends/families, but they are great looking middle-aged guys with Scott being of fair Scandinavian heritage and Phil of dark-haired French stock. Besides they are incredibly open to my showing their most intimate lives.
I am now on Day 7 with 8 more days to shoot after I get back from spending this weekend up in Burbank with my sister and her husband. All is well here and it sounds like the same is true for you. Please give Brian a big hug for me…
hugs
Patricia
VIVA OURPATRICIA !!!
All my love to you and to your family and to my beloved California…!!!
Where are u BURNIANS???
Civi
In Norway.
And still waiting for people to join “which-one”.
PATRICIA…
thanks…i suspected as much…..one of the most interesting things about our work is that intent and statement of purpose can indeed create the credibility itself…what might me unimportant to one person may be deemed important by another and quite literally take on a new life literally because of the portrayal…i.e…there was nothing any more important or different about Gene Smith’s Spanish village than any other nearby village in Estramadura…why he chose one over another , i have no idea…he could have been sitting in a sidewalk cafe, felt good vibes, and chose the village in a random instinctive way…there could have been some other “reason” but i doubt it…so, it is the same with your couple…you have chosen THEM…and just as Smith made his little village into an iconic essay simply because of his belief that it was a microcosm of the whole, you will do the same..it will be your heart and your talent that will make Scott and Phil into something special from a photo essay standpoint reflecting their specialness in your mind…knowing you , you have already made them feel they are collaborators with you…this is exactly the way you should make them feel…
a traditional print magazine editor would most likely push you a step further and demand even more of a reason for one couple over another since gay couples can hardly be considered an anomaly these days…traditional magazines do indeed require usually an extra edge or surprise or one-of-a-kind uniqueness to help draw in their readers…not necessary here on Burn..however, to make it really work, your visual acuity and style will be necessary to put it over the top…for some stories, the subject itself will be enough to carry the message..but, for Gene Smith and for you , it will all be about your unique authorship and perspective….
cheers, david
we waited http://www.artouko.com/im.htm
hihihi…collaborators… I love some words …just for the …sound…
_ floccinaucinihilipilification(Estimation that something is valueless. Proper pronunciation based on Latin roots: flockə-nowsə-nəkələ-pələ-fək-ation.)
_Inaniloquent( Pertaining to idle talk)
_Limerance (An attempt at a scientific study into the nature of romantic love.)
_ Mesonoxian (Pertaining to midnight)
etc…etc…
BJARTE …join in …( checked)
DAVIDB… unchecked
KATIE…
MYGRACIE
JIMMY
HAIK
PANOS
LASSAL
REIMAR
THOMAS
SIDNEY
MICHAELK
MARCIN
EMCD
THODORIS
CATHY
JOHNIESSSS
FROSTFROG
POMARA
FRANSESCO
BRIANF
DOMINIK
KATHARINA
AUDREYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
SO MANY ……………….i need update…what are u doing ???
john V
thanks for your reply.. documentary photojournalist.. a good summing up.
you´re right about work which takes too much of the obvious moral high-ground – it under-rates the viewers intelligence.. in the moment it actually makes me think of more news hired journalists and snappers, briefed to fill in an editorial philosophy first and foremost.
when i think of my favorite snappers – i think they must have some in-built moral position, or opinion, which might not even have to directly link into the subject they are shooting.. perhaps the subject is a side effect of their already strong moral position?
in other words someone who loves people is much more likely to produce work which focuses on bringing people together or illustrating injustice in general, regardless of each individual project.
civi..
please consider me checked in..
will check out again in an hour or so..
will check in again soon after
viva norway…
BJARTE – i think the blog is a good idea in general..
the difficulty is in choosing which photo suits a stream of photos, which may be different from which is the best stand-alone photo.
when viewed along with other photos for context it often becomes more clear which photo to choose..
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJF6g_hC4XI/AAAAAAAAAUs/3n1gRA6qxps/s1600-h/03940032.jpg
or
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/Salfr5Uy8HI/AAAAAAAAAu0/c8iMHwYfhZs/s1600-h/bowen003.jpg
i think the first one is more interesting, as a moment before the kiss.. yet the second, with mainly the phone number, seems more complete..
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SI9Ejq7V11I/AAAAAAAAAMk/-DCuvP3aUuQ/s1600-h/03110017.jpg
may be a more blunt / a better stand-alone photo than
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SalfaZghXmI/AAAAAAAAAus/_j_JdJW215g/s1600-h/bowen002.jpg
yet the second works better in a series… as i have better ´kiss´ shots and the second is good for showing claustrophobia..
the blog may work out, although for me the choosing between shots is pretty personal and dependent onpon whats in my head :ø)
with the phone number photo, i mean i think the second one is more interesting because the first one seems more complete – not the other way round :ø)
music to look at photos to.
Burnians,
this morning I arrived happy and safely in New Delhi. Now I sit with some young students in a room and use wifi for my web connection. Some nice Hindi music is playing and the kids are singing. Can this get any better? Perfect. Okay, I have to forget about privacy for a while…
Today I am settling down, making myself at home and ckecking out this place like getting a mobile phone card, etc. Most important of all: the sun is shining and the food is nice and tasty! A bit chilly at night…
The family of my friend Ravi is wonderful. They run their home as some kind of a youth center, helping the kids to improve their knowlege and social skills. There are about 120 kids coming and going during the day. All this is happening in a relatively small place in one of the most expensive shopping markets of New Delhi. I am having fun and enjoy it very much – awfully tired though.
Tomorrow I will start shooting! More soon!
Best
Reimar
David Bowen, Michael Webster and Sam Harris: You’re invited, check your e-mail. You might need a gmail or blogger-account to log in to the blog, let me know how it works out.
I’ve kicked it off with some cows: http://which–one.blogspot.com/
David
Post the photographs to the blog and I’ll let you know what I think!
civi,
I am here … just got one screw off today. I may start using my foot with 20kg from now on ..
Reimar,
you see me really jealous. I hope you enjoy your stay. Good light!
APROPOS OF NADA — but y’all might be interested in this new blog post by Alex Webb, on his shooting method and responses to situations:
http://tiny.cc/alexwebbforumula
cheers!
bjarte – it’s fine.. i enjoying choosing and don’t find it so tough :o)
That’s a bit snobby of you!
But we could use your comments there anytime, and that goes to all of you. We need lots of eyes.
DAVID
Thank you for “getting it.” I can’t recall ever believing in the importance of an essay as much as I do this one. As you say, gay couples are no anomaly in today’s culture but the passage of Proposition 8 in California and the fact that same sex marriage is only allowed in five states out of fifty makes it clear that gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender individuals are still treated as second class citizens in the USA. And that needs to change. But attitudes must change as well as laws. And what better way than by showing the everyday ordinariness of a gay couple’s life? Prejudice falls flat when we get to know people as individuals. That’s what I’m hoping Scott and Phil can do through this essay.
Regarding what it will take to make this essay work, I am so aware that it is my task to bring to it all the artistry, heartfelt meaning and creative fire of which I am capable. For instance I remember your encouraging me to study Alex Webb’s photos to learn how a photographer could see beyond simple subject-dominated compositions and bring a more complex, multi-layered eye to his/her work. Your photos teach me that as well. It is that consciousness that I’m doing my damnest to bring to every photo I take. I’ve never worked as hard nor have I enjoyed photography more. God, but I love this work!
I am honored beyond belief that you would put my name in the same sentence as Gene Smith’s. Thank you, David, so much for your suggestions, interest and encouragement. It really helps.
hugs
Patricia
Civi;
I’m just catching up with work. Spent four days helping a mate out with a fundraising horse trek. Two days shooting and two helping put up marquees etc.
The trek was a fundraiser for his local pa. But a body arrived for a tangi, so the entire trek had to be moved 20kms down the road to the YMCA outdoors pursuit camp. New trekking routes had to be sorted out 12 hours before the first trekkers arrived. 2 months organisation changed in 12 hours!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81_(M%C4%81ori)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangihanga
Rode for 9 hours and 54kms on the back of a quad bike (facing backwards to shoot) on the steel bar carrier over steep hill country tracks. My butt tells me the trek was probably 100kms!!! Only did a 4 hour trek the next day because the trekkers were tired out from the day before!
Anyway, all went well, the trekkers were happy. Plenty of good scenery; steep hills, river, native forest and plenty of wild fallow deer roaming about and even a few wild pigs! So plenty of variety.
So now back to work… An article to get out by the 20th and then I have to sort through all the portrait pics I took at the birthday party I shot a couple of weeks back.
I’ve already sorted my project pics from the night. The others are just portrait pics as a thank you for letting me crash their party! I think the project pics are the strongest I’ve taken so far; fingers crossed!
Patricia;
Good to see it’s all working out for you. I can’t wait to see the images. Good shooting!!!
Bjarte
That’s a bit snobby of you!…….. wierd call that one
Selecting images is an extension of taking the photos and is all about self confidence I too will pass on this.
My second grandson was born one week ago tomorrow morning and I have posted a five-part series on my daily photo-blog, beginning in the labor room and ending with a ceremony at our home in Wasilla, Alaska, to bury the umbilical cord and placenta, according to the spiritual believes of his Navajo mother. Many things happen in between.
While it lacks the gravitas of a good Burn essay and, being a blog produced on the fly, certainly is not tightly edited, perhaps some of you might enjoy looking at it, anyway.
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/category/birth-of-jobe
Of course, blogs being structured as they are, you will encounter it in reverse chronology.
THOMAS…one screw down…what not to LOVE !!!
REIMAR…I knew it… you were cooking something…I am following…
I know our PATRICIA is smiling now…
DAVIDB…TORCAPA is running…watch closely
BOBBLACK,DIMAS,MARINA, ROSA…HERVE…oime HERVE…I LOVE YOU !!!
Where is JIMMY and KATHLEEN FOSENCA and so many …I MISS U …
Hope u are all good…I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLL
Another Birth of Jobe Atene Hess…
VIVA FROSTFROG…another BURNIAN baby !!!
I am dancing …I am dancing like a BURNING Civilian…
oime my knees are weak…BUT …I am fighter…
come on BURNIANS … move your fingers…
Another Birth of Jobe Atene Hess…
VIVA FROSTFROG…another BURNIAN baby !!!
I am dancing …I am dancing like a BURNING Civilian…
oime my knees are weak…BUT …I am a fighter…
come on BURNIANS … move your fingers…
For CIVI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_A3jEgn3f8
You are a dancing machine!
Trek website
http://www.brackkenroar.com/otokotrek/
Hello Civi, checking in, haven’t checked out yet….not much serious work lately – shooting kids in the snow and at the roller rink and playing skeeball….
Imants
I wasn’t 100% serious with David (guess I should have added a smiley).
I respect your choices.
DEAR CIVI
Please forgive me. I am so focused on this project that I neglected to wish you a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! You are a gift to us all. May this new year of life give you joy and fulfillment.
much love
patricia
FROSTFROG
Thank you so much for sharing little Jobe’s birth and all that followed. This is what cameras are for–to document moments like this. Congratulations to all and a warm welcome kiss to Jobe and a warm big brother kiss for Kalib…
Patricia
FROSTFROG,
Congrats to your family! Now, poop on the face, why didn’t I think of that…?
REIMAR,
Have fun – I’m jealous. And watch those toilet locks!
PATRICIA and DAH,
Great illuminating back and forth. Will be interesting to see if you can pull it off. Mundanity is of course the hardest thing to shoot… and not have it be mundane!
DAVID B.
Haven’t forgotten about you. Busy and internet was down at the Peterson house. But thanks for sharing – explains a bit.
CP
Frostfrog
What a moving document you have in that blog of yours. I was in tears twice, once seeing babys father weep, and again, reading the account of the couple who’s baby passed away. Very moving stuff. Snaps as they may be , there are is some wonderful photography and blogging going on here. I always feel like I’m living in a “being John Malkovich” movie when I visit your blog…and who’da thought you were a grandpa!
Civi, Patricia, Charles and Gordon:
Thanks!
DAVID A H
Sent you an email to your burnmagazine account.
is it still active?
Did it arrive?
JOHN
DAVID
It was via a photoshelter account, so it may have been flagged as spam, but it has my name in the header.
CIVILIAN…
so sorry i missed your birthday…so, belated Happy Birthday….and many many thanks always for being such a good spirit here…appreciated by me and by all….
PATRICIA…
feeling the way you do will make this essay work…that is exactly what it takes…that feeling…nothing else matters…ok now get lost lost lost in your shooting…you already have most of the work done i am sure…probably you are 80% finished….but, your very best few will come now…enjoy..
JOHN..
will check my email and respond soonest…i have been so so busy Rio that i am way behind in my email and everything else too…so , what’s new??
cheers, david
waiting for the mieces to pieces http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
David, I know what you’re saying about language skills. That’s not my strength either. I was once fluent in Spanish (alas, no longer) but was never able to get over the hump with other romance languages. Lived in Portugal for awhile and got by, but mostly by using Spanish to ask how to say something in Portuguese.
ERICA
super congrats on Mother Jones!!!!
BRAVO!!!
xo
**
bravo! bravo! bravo!
to
emcd for Mother Jones
and
Charle Mahoney for Time Magazine.
good light all,
a.
1:50am northern greece…i need to travel to Athens in the morning…stay in athens for the night and then , morning flight for the magic Istanbul to meet Nikos and his students for the workshop im assisting..
Problem is that i still havent packed my shit up..clothes here, chargers there…a mess..mess, mess….
Instead im watching a movie… anyway…
Im not gonna forget “burn”… i will do my best to give updates in a regular basis… and give u my “view” of the whole operation..I will be in Istanbul sunday afternoon..hotel check in and then the first workshop meeting/briefing at 6pm sunday night..
stay tuned..
( i will do my best to not bore you )
big hug
peace
;)
if anyone wants to meet me or Nikos Economopoulos in Istanbul , i will be in the Vardar Palace hotel by Taksim square 3 blocks away from the Point hotel that the workshop takes place…dont hesitate to call me (if my cell works/roams right at the 6989851031 add 0030)
hugz
And congrats to Chris Bickford for NYT and Time.
Panos,
Any images from Istanbul?? We are waiting… :)
Marcin..:)
i’ll be in Istanbul tomorrow afternoon…
i will do my best…
stay tuned
I thought you are there since a week, ohhh I didn’t read comments carefully.
Ok, will wait, will wait :)
MR.HARVEY ,
you are the funniest of all…you make peace with your demons…
not yet, mate…not yet…:)))!!!:)))
THANKS to you and to your (over)confidence … WE have a VISION !!!
P.S hmmm…kinda blurred … hihiiiiiii
WE LOVE MR.BURNDAH
CONGRATULATIONS…to my BURNIANS…
BE YOU and the Universe will follow …
OUZO and SOUVLAKIA for everyone…!!!
David Alan Harvey
Could you consider adding http://which–one.blogspot.com/ to the list of links here on burn? I think this is something many photographers can find useful and the blog will be updated frequently.
So Panos , what are you ” Gentlemans Companion “Now?
PANOS!!!
At which airport do you land? I’d need to have some info about shuttels from Sabiha to the old citycenter, will write you a mail, once you’re there! Looking forward to see pics!
DAVID
It’s like you’re sitting here looking over my shoulder. How did you know I was close to 80% done with the photo-taking part of this project? I’ve now whittled almost 2000 photos down to 130 possibles and finally to about 50 keepers. Of course the keepers are not my final edit but simply the ones that will be in the final running. And I still have one more week of shooting before I return home. I’m feeling good about what I have thus far but see holes that need filling, shots that need to be retaken and look forward to refining my vision so I can see and take those “best shots” of which you speak.
I’m lucky that I have this weekend to stand back from the project, see what I have and get a renewed sense of where to go from here. I’m now at my sister and brother-in-law’s condo in Los Angeles and will return to San Diego on Monday afternoon. Then I’ll have another week to hopefully complete the photo-taking part of this project with Scott and Phil. Of course I know from working on Falling Into Place that taking the photos is merely the first step in a long process of developing a photo essay. And now that I’m trying to add another element — audio — it will be more complex than before. But I love every step. This really is an amazing way to live!
Trust you are loving your photo-taking in Rio. What an exciting project you’ve undertaken! Enjoy every minute…
hugs
Patricia
CHARLES
I’m so glad that the dialogue between David and me has been beneficial to you. Having him mentor me in this way is a real treasure. His questions and comments help me see what this project means to me in terms of both intention and aesthetics. Helps me know where to go from here. Let’s hope I can show the wonder in the mundane!
Patricia
I’m sorry, but I thought Souvlakia was a country…
where have you been AKAKY???
IRL CIVILIAN : Yes, AKAKY …Souvlakia is a the new name for the broken Greece…
well,Thank you for checking IN !!!
P.S and where is TOM HYDE and JIM POWERS and my KATHLEEN FONSECA and so many…
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ANNIE …oime…I can’t breath…too much food…
BUT the spirit is UP…
Panos;
If you’re around; here’s a link to the 16th birthday images. Sorry for the delay but I promised the birthday girl that I wouldn’t upload them until she had okay’d them. Any comments welcome!
http://www.photoshelter.com/user/the-kids-are-alright
Click on “birthday” gallery
Cheers
“i need update…what are u doing ???”
civi – am toiling to make the mother of all online pj / fine art / documentary photography resource libraries for all the non civilians out there!
oh how rude of me ! there will be room for civilians too :)
ALL..
so sorry i have not been around…i am sure you understand…things might calm down just a bit in Rio by tomorrow and i can come on with a new dialogue post and peruse more of your comments…living on coffee and caipirinhas…and a bit of papaya as well…i was totally down with a sprained ankle, but saved miraculously by acupuncture…
for the tech folks here, i am using three cameras..Nikon D700, Leica M9 and the Panasonic Lumix GF1 with the fixed flat 20mm..the Lumix is sweet sweet to use, but i have not really looked carefully at the files…if those are good, then this is a great have with you all the time camera…M9 also just about perfect except for slow file transfer and eats batteries fast…D700 a workhorse…guaranteed to work all the time every time..but, alas just clunky compared to either the Leica or the Lumix…
if stranded on an island and i had to choose just one camera of the three above : M9
cheers, david
p.s.
my son Bryan is here shooting a tv doc on our whole process…he is using mostly his big 75k hi def Sony…huge thing..BUT in some cases where he has been denied access with the big one, he has been using the Canon 5D and it has been quite amazing…he is sold on the 5D quality….manipulating it is awkward…but if you can keep it in focus without a tripod etc., it seems to be terrific…
PATRICIA…
you are experiencing the energy derived from this work…what you describe is what keeps me going all the time…when i talk to young photographers, i always tell them this is not a job, it is a lifestyle…a way of living life…period..so many seem to miss this point entirely…but, you have it..good…i can’t wait to see the work…
cheers, david
David AH,
is D700the s ame which was “baptized” in the ocean? ;)
*the same* sorry
question to anyone with M9 experience..i have a very strange problem…the exposure comp seems to change at will…i mean, you cannot change the exposure comp without clicking three times…seems impossible that it could change randomly…but, it does…i will be rolling along and suddenly have extreme overexposure..i go into the menu and sure enough i am suddenly locked on say +2 or something with the exposure comp setting……how can this happen?? anybody ever heard of this happening or read about it anywhere?? i keep thinking i must be doing something wrong, but cannot imagine what it could be…
ABELE..
yes, the same 700…so, i have to love it for being very tough and dependable..i doubt the M9 would have survived the same dunking…
DAH…
not to overburden the tech talk capacity of the blog, but if you would indulge two quick questions ….what lenses on the D700 and the M9, and are you using the cool little optical viewfinder on the Lumix?
good Sunday light, all.
a.
Thank you EMCD… for checking in and for the …room :)))
BURNIANS…time for tech talk !!!
M9 …what lense…??? NIKON 700, D5,GF1
I need to be educated too…
BRING IT ON …I am ready
Civi, not much of tech talk from me.. but.. wanna come to the darkroom with me?? Happy belated birthday.. and keep the economy GOING!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME
Oh sod it. Freeezing cold after shooting all day. Fish and chips for tea.
One bloody card…and that was from me mum.
DAH ….. not sure if this is the case .
…but the exposure comp on the m9 can b set of directly from the navigation keys ….. u might wana try disabling it ……….
it can be don in few steps …..
when u hit the menu button
scroll to Exp. comp. setup
Exp. comp. setup • SET menu only
• Setting ring
• Setting ring & release button
select • SET menu only …..
this might stop it from accidental changing …. again ….. not 100 % sure ….
Happy Birthday john gladdy!
may you be granted many more years :)
Happy Birthday to you John Gladdy – may your wishes come true!
JG…happy BIRTHday!!!
We are here for you … BUT listen mate:
Have a shower…then…go in front of your mirror and say this:
I am JOHN and I LOVE me…after drink a sfinaki and get out of the house…
The rest will be …history (don’t wear underwear)
EVA…I and you in the darkroom ???
…Oime…Viva ITALIA
hiiii…EVA…I am a silent one…is that right IMANTS???
TECH TALK…TECH-TALK…
VIVEK …VIVA…BURNIANS…!!!
THOMAS…
I am so happy for u…one screw down !!! VIVA!!!
JOHN
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday dear John
Happy birthday to you…
and MANY MORE!!!
big hugs
Patricia
PANOS,
I can’t reach you …your Greek number doesn’t work in Konstantinoupoli…hmmm…
EVA…are u going there to meet them??? THODORIS???
Well… I am sending all my Civilian hugs to MR.ECONOMOPOULOS…
Enjoy!!!
OURPATRICIA,
I believe in you…our inspiration!!!
BEER and WHISKEY on JOHN GLADDY …
BURNIANS …the party is on …Birthday (again) and Tech talk !!!
BURNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
ANDREW B..
i have the aux viewfinder on the Lumix…in daylight the only way to go…
VIVEK…
many thanks… i will take a look and see if that solves the problem..i had no idea of this setting…i am sure you are on to the problem…makes sense…..
5 minutes later: yes, i see how that works…hmmm, that is a strange feature, because it would be too easy to change the exposure comp even while looking at pictures, which is what must have been happening to me…anyway, it is now disabled…i knew this blog would be helpful to me someday!!!
JOHN GLADDY..
Happy Birthday amigo…will hoist one in your honor later this evening…
cheers, david
Civi, nope, going over there in April, for now stuck at the airport (booking-wise), trying to figure out the logistics..
John, happy birthday, Patricia, happy shooting.. DAH, have you figured out what’s next? Is there something you MUST shoot (meaning you’ve been asked from the journal), or are you free?
EVA…
there are very few “musts” and i never work from a list per se…carnaval is certainly one of the “musts”, but basically i am always free to interpret..i.e.within carnaval, i can see it as i see fit….i now have about two weeks to simply “play”…try to get the essence of the culture….
cheers, david
John Gladdy – Happy birthday, from the thawing, soggy, Far North. I hope you share the images of the day.
February must have been a busy birth month, I hit 47 on Wednesday. Older but definately NOT wiser :-)
Regarding the 16th birthday images for my kids project; I should have mentioned in my last post that any comments are welcome!
http://www.photoshelter.com/user/the-kids-are-alright
Click on “birthday” gallery
Cheers
I had a hassle a while ago when shooting, every 3 frames was shot at the correct exposure, above and below. It took me ages to realsie that somehow I had engaged the bracketing button. So many buttons; so easy to screw up!
DAVID. and all.
I just read your last twitter post about “post excitement letdown.”
I can totally relate.
Just got home from the greatest trip EVER…
I am so grateful for the experience yet at the same time, having a very rough time with “reentry.”
How to go back to my life??? Each day gets easier but this trip is especially tough for me to detach from.
You’ve obviously experienced this many, many times.
Any advice? Words of widsom?
Thanks.
or words of wisdom? widsom or wisdom…either will do :))
attn: DAH
interesting to hear that Bryan is using the 5D now and then, but as you say it is a clunker to manipulate.
canon is i believe releasing a new camera REBEL T2i — full 1080 HD video and the ability to use autofocus while shooting! not full frame but it may be just the thing until they have this in their next gen pro cam.
‘k, enough tech jibber jabber
— when will your rio story be published, approx?
thx
Cathy remember that people just got on with their lives in the same place you got your travelling kicks.
DAH, thanks.. you say you’re (mostly) free, sounds great.. do you have your very own (inner) red line? Or is it just going out and shooting? And (well, I do hope you wont have time to answer all these questions because you’ve found IT and are after it!), how much have things changed with digital, when you can check daily what you have vs. analogue, when you could see the whole thing only afterwards? Better, worse, doesn’t really matter?
DAH
my GF1 (which for some reason I think of s girlfriend one :) ) arrived and I have started playing with it – i have what translates to a 40mm on it – had a last minute image request from the New Yorker so I shot a few frames on the GF1 and submitted, will see, but on first shooting it indeed seems to make very good raw files.
Wendy, Andrew…
thank you!! (and thank you wonderful Mother Jones) Indeed it feels wonderful to have an 8 photo spread in Mother Jones, and more images coming online…mostly it is exciting to have a piece that was quite hard to pull off get such exposure, as it may actually lead to bettering the lives of the people who are living with mental illness in NY State. Hits the newsstands March 2nd, after which time I can post on my website…
oh i guess we actually have the same lens, (DAH)
David, Andrew
Cosina make a 40mm brightline optical finder, which you might prefer to the Panasonic video finder. http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtacc.htm
DAH, emcd…
Very interested to hear how you find the files from the GF-1. Seriously looking at it or an Oly E-P1/2 for a travel/street camera. Probably the most interesting answer for me is how large would you feel comfortable printing the files?
Gordon,
thanks for that – the 40mm brightline looks very cool.
a.
JG a little belated “happy Birthday” hope you had the finest fish and chips…..
David Bowen, have you seen the article in the saturday guardian about muso photogs, if you haven’t email me your address and I’ll mail it to you.
Cheers
Ian
hi ian.
just did a web-search on your lead – was it a piece about simon bowcocks project to document rock crowds?
i know how he feels :ø)
JOHN G
late birthday happy you to.
CATHY
sleep on the floor and turn the heating on full?
DB article is called Frame acadamy trailblazers of rock photography, in guardian weekend mag 20.02.10. Seminal moments with the stars, i know its not your thing but related.
Features mick rock, gered mankowitz, ray stevenson, jill furmanovsky,laura levine,guy webster, bob gruen.
All photographs from “Who shot rock and roll” by gail buckland published by knopf from http://www.turnaround-uk.com
Cheers
ian
thanks ian..
ANDREW B..
forgot to answer your whole question…on the 700 i use mostly the 28…i have the 24-70, but that thing is a horse…sharp and really works, but who wants to take THAT out of the bag at a sidewalk cafe?? however, i have had some unobtrusive negative blowback..i.e. if i have a big pro looking camera, everybody knows what i am doing…declared intent…if i have a small and in my mind unobtrusive camera, some folks think you are being sneaky…even i am suspicious when someone takes my picture with their cell phone…with everyone taking pictures of everyone all the time everywhere, maybe our old ideas of unobtrusive are just out the window..still, smaller, easier to use seems better for me overall.
CATHY…
no advice on that one..Imants is right..everybody else is doing just fine not having gone anywhere…post excitement stress is just as hard to deal with as no excitement stress..smiling….just keep giving yourself new things to do…like for you now, editing down tight the work and having the work match the energy you put into and got out of your trip…i have the same job to do…and that usually leads to post editing stress…hmmmmmm
cheers, david
GORDON..
i will check that out..sounds perfect..
DQ..
yes, but the full frame is the reason the 5D is so good…you can buy about 3k work of focusing and gun stock steadying accessories, but i have not actually seen it..looks unwieldy…in any case, a nice tool to be sure , particularly when you just do not have access with a big pro looking HD..and the 5D does look better on the screen than the 75k camera…
Remember to the locals where you take your photos it is just home, maybe that is where one should tap in and remain, mentally not be apart………..
David B
http://bjartebjartebjarte.blogspot.com/2010/02/playing-with-edges.html
DAVID.
Did you dig that email out?
Lost in spam?
andonandonandon..
whats wrong with england today?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/21/photographer-films-anti-terror-arrest
IMANTS…
that is a very good point…even though i obviously travel for much of my work, one of the things i try to do is to mentally be at “home”…i forget the planes, trains and cabs that it took to get me in someone’s living room…they are irrelevant to me anyway…then, i can feel like i am next door…i project this feeling and i think it projects back to me..i also “reference” or mirror my own life in every situation..this is hard to describe, but is key…miles physically traveled mean nothing…it is only the mental connection that counts….
JOHN GLADDY..
i just dug out your email..the gallery , right? i just have no time to really look seriously…and will not until about march 15…to do you justice, i need to be sitting and thinking of nothing but your work…i am sure you would want me in that state of mind..so patience please and i will do you right…make sense??
cheers, david
David B
If more people trusted each other, the world would be a happier place. The video is eye-opening to me, didn’t know England was like that! Do you know how long the english police has acted like this towards photographers or is it something new going on?
DAVID.
Absolutely. Just wanted to make sure it got through.
First phase of shooting done now. Scanning the last four rolls in.(if anything makes the cut I will update gallery)
Then Finish work commitments,Couple of months off, somewhere hot,somewhere new,travel a bit ….then come back for the next phase. Have no clue what that will be yet. Will find out when I start I guess.
JOHN
Bjarte, there has been alot of this happening in UK at the mo.
have a look at http://photographernotaterrorist.org/
cheers
ian
Aouchhhhhhhhhh…
DAVIDB, IAN…BURNIANS…
I will call the above links…
THE MONTY PYTHON’S : ” Antisocial behaviour”
hmmmmm…
“Are we gonna be detained …officer???” hmmmm…
JOHNG…where is the whiskey…hmmmm…I will call you out…for antisocial behaviour…
VIVA!!!
Interesting points about what size camera works best for the type of photography you do. Especially in relation to people’s reactions to your camera. As DAH and some other Burnians know, I use a pretty large heavy digi camera, one that is quite obvious when I take it out to shoot. That seems to work well for me partly because it makes it clear to everyone that I am a serious photographer. The funny thing about being disabled and using a motorized scooter to get around is that folks don’t expect you to be serious about much of anything. So when I say I’m a photographer and would like to take their picture, people know I’m telling the truth because my camera verifies it. It gives me the credibility I need. So does my business card.
Isn’t it interesting how what works for one doesn’t always work for another? The key is to find out what works for you.
Patricia
yes, interesting..then there are those who downplay their seriousness on purpose, to keep their subject relaxed..arbus used to say sometimes she was a student, true i guess in the way that we are all students :)
yes, and Amping it right up can also work. Ultra obvious, presence, Attitude. I guess we all figure out the ways that get us what we need to get. if it works, its valid.
John
That IS interesting, Erica. Strange thing is that I never seem to have trouble making my subjects feel relaxed, that is unless they’re just naturally stressed-out kind of people.
By the way, BIG congratulations on your photos being published in Mother Jones!!! That is such a fine magazine and one that is seen by tons of people, both in print and online. And let us know what happens with the New Yorker. You, my dear, are on a roll! And a well-deserved one at that.
hugs
Patricia
ROSS
I just saw that you’d had a birthday last week too. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MY FRIEND! May life continue to fill you with wonder…
hugs
Patricia
PANOS.. err.. isn’t the guy in Turkey since just a day or two? ;)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/7293872/Retired-military-chiefs-held-over-Turkish-coup-plot.html
DAH…thank you for circling back on that answer….was mostly curious about what length lens you prefer for the street/carnival type shots….whether you went fairly wide with a 24 or 28 or tended towards a 35 or 50….trying to tell from the shots it doesn’t look like much more than 35, usually….
But all academic. I think the important thing is getting out there and getting into the groove/flow/mood…rare for me, but exciting when it happens…and is happening more frequently, I think….
Eva… yes…this is exactly whats happening here…
ok, all…hello from TURKEY…
lAST NIGHT i tried to reach you but unfortunately..NO INTERNET…
even now , im typing fast coz its on and off and relatively slow to super slow…
Anyway, First day of the workshop with Nikos E.
The started in a glorious manner…
Nikos Economopoulos introduced me to one of the legends of photography , mr ARA GULER..
please wiki the guy if u dont know him..the most significant turkish photographer and a
living legend …He lives in the center of Istanbul ( Koudelka used to sleep in his apartment months at a time..Nikos’s good friend )..Anyway after that meeting we went to the the FOTOGRAFEVI gallery and met
Hassan..the owner and publisher of Nikos’s book BALKANARDA ( the Balkans ) we hit right off and shared with me many stories and anecdotes.. the guy had lived all over the world (20 years in london alone so we had to talk about a lot..especially , and then boom…breaking news…retired generals from the turkish army…in jail..why? im not gonna say much here but eva above posted a link..plz read it…
Again it is not my opinion..im in turkey right now..i cant have an opinion ,if u know what i mean…ok?
Anyway… we set up projectors etc and then we waited for the students to show up…
Students came..4 hours commenting on their effort/work/todays photos etc…
Im back in the hotel now…trying to absorb all that..
Beautiful people in Istanbul…great souls..New York of the East…safe too…
please ask questions i dont know what else to say…i will start shooting heavily from tomorrow myself..
im not here just to assist but also for my personal therapy..photography is my shrink..i need to save my soul…Nikos is a master..David Alan Harvey is also an iconic..a master..i had the luck/pleasure to have worked with both of those guys…two completely different personalities…two philosophers..two different worlds…two different “shrinks”… two different techniques…but my oh my ..they both know how to reach your soul..
they both know how to get the best out of you..any you..as long as you really want it…Another magical week just started…Life is not just good..
Life is Great..
thank u all..i’ll be around for a while if u need me to chat…and if internet allows…
biggest hug
10:50pm Taksim Square, Istanbul, Turkey
:)))
cheers from panos!
he writes: “Eva… yes…this is exactly whats happening here…
ok, all…hello from TURKEY…
lAST NIGHT i tried to reach you but unfortunately..NO INTERNET…
even now , im typing fast coz its on and off and relatively slow to super slow…
Anyway, First day of the workshop with Nikos E.
The started in a glorious manner…
Nikos Economopoulos introduced me to one of the legends of photography , mr ARA GULER..
please wiki the guy if u dont know him..the most significant turkish photographer and a
living legend …He lives in the center of Istanbul ( Koudelka used to sleep in his apartment months at a time..Nikos’s good friend )..Anyway after that meeting we went to the the FOTOGRAFEVI gallery and met
Hassan..the owner and publisher of Nikos’s book BALKANARDA ( the Balkans ) we hit right off and shared with me many stories and anecdotes.. the guy had lived all over the world (20 years in london alone so we had to talk about a lot..especially , and then boom…breaking news…retired generals from the turkish army…in jail..why? im not gonna say much here but eva above posted a link..plz read it…
Again it is not my opinion..im in turkey right now..i cant have an opinion ,if u know what i mean…ok?
Anyway… we set up projectors etc and then we waited for the students to show up…
Students came..4 hours commenting on their effort/work/todays photos etc…
Im back in the hotel now…trying to absorb all that..
Beautiful people in Istanbul…great souls..New York of the East…safe too…
please ask questions i dont know what else to say…i will start shooting heavily from tomorrow myself..
im not here just to assist but also for my personal therapy..photography is my shrink..i need to save my soul…Nikos is a master..David Alan Harvey is also an iconic..a master..i had the luck/pleasure to have worked with both of those guys…two completely different personalities…two philosophers..two different worlds…two different “shrinks”… two different techniques…but my oh my ..they both know how to reach your soul..
they both know how to get the best out of you..any you..as long as you really want it…Another magical week just started…Life is not just good..
Life is Great..
thank u all..i’ll be around for a while if u need me to chat…and if internet allows…
biggest hug
10:50pm Taksim Square, Istanbul, Turkey
:)))
[22.02.10 21:51:45] panos skoulidas: Thomas help
[22.02.10 21:51:56] panos skoulidas: please post the above in burn
[22.02.10 21:52:06] panos skoulidas: i cant post from turkey”
test…hello…test
Patricia;
“So when I say I’m a photographer and would like to take their picture, people know I’m telling the truth because my camera verifies it. It gives me the credibility I need. So does my business card”
I find the same too; especially with photographing kids. Oh; thanks for the birthday wishes…
Cheers
boredom http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm
test test…fuck that internet filters
MY DEAR BRO PANOS
Oh my, what an adventure!!! And to see, hear and feel it through your eyes, ears and heart is THE BEST! Even though I’m in the midst of my own adventure, I love hearing about yours. I always learn from you, my friend. IMHO you are a master in your own right. You are a master of LIFE!!! Please keep sharing when you can…
BIG hugs
Patricia
PANOS AGAIN…Patricia thank you..good luck to u too…stay in the “zone” as David always suggests…
All please wiki ARA GULER (HCB’s friend) click here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ara_G%C3%BCler
from panos:
“ok, one last thing from Istanbul…as i just wrote through skype to my good amigo Thomas..”…from Turkey through Germany full of greek love and LA silliness…go figure…”
ARA GULER
http://ilef.ankara.edu.tr/fotograf/galeri/categories.php?cat_id=43
http://imagineistanbul.com/ara-guler-of-istanbul.htm
http://www.lesartsturcs.com/photo_gulers.php
and………….
http://www.lesartsturcs.com/photo_gulers.php
I mean
http://www.whatsonwhen.com/sisp/index.htm?fx=event&event_id=187107
— DAH —-
Polka Galerie in Paris carries your work? can you tell me anything more about them, sister and brother, gallery focuses on photojournalism…anything else?
Also, when referencing you by last name only, is it simply Harvey? As in, Nachtwey, Erwitt and Harvey? Not Alan Harvey…or are you just not a last name only kind of a guy? :)
ERICA…
yes, Polka in Paris represents some of my work…and, i suppose you know they have a nice print magazine as well..they have done very well for me…i am a last name only kind of guy….
ANDREW B…
28 and 35 my only lenses for carnival.. or, for almost anything….
DAH,
Glad Vivek helped you figure that out – it was exactly what I was going to recommend. Yes, the M9 is quickly becoming my desert island camera too with the 35 Lux attached. Just waiting for firmware update to hopefully speed things up a bit. Have you shot with any of the Zeiss manual focus lenses for the Nikon? They get the D3/700 that much closer to leica territory.
Sounds like Rio is a blast – we’re all jealous! I’m off to Kauai and a cottage on the beach next week so really no complaints.
EMCD,
Really looking forward to your MJ piece. Congrats!
PANOS,
Isn’t Istanbul just the fucking shit! Have fun brother!
CP
Charles;
How hard is it to manually focus the D700? Manually focussing the DX’s is like looking down a tunnel. Mind you I am now the proud owner of a Holga WPC (wide pinhole camera) 6×9 or 6×12 negs, not too much focussing needed! :-)
Hello to everyone.
Have not had much of a chance to pop in lately as been working trying to earn some cash which I don’t get to do all the time, so get home and I’m totally fucked. Unfortunately, not in a good way.
Hi David.
Hope all is well, and I know you must be quiet busy at this point but just wanted to let you know I had a big splurge of activity scanning over past month or two, ending up with over a thousand images on the Photoshelter web site I finally got around to subscribing to. I’m not sure where to take it too next as I have still many thousands more images I could put up, but already its looking like a mess.
If it would be OK to get your opinion now I have a SKYPE headset and more importantly, a bit of a range of my images we could talk about. As you must have a lot of other commitments I’ll jump at the chance to hook up whenever we get the chance.
Looking forward in seeing more work here, as there have been a couple of really inspiring pieces lately.
Thanks David. Peter.
ROSS,
I find manually focusing my D3 (can’t speak for a D700 but I would imagine they are quite similar) is just like focusing was on any old Nikon full frame pro film camera. So not bad really and much better than the DX. I could never get AF to focus on what I wanted so I use manual focus almost always.
Best,
CP
Charles; Cheers for that :-)
Panos, thanks for checking in, I’m writing down names and addies.. (Imants, thanks for the links!).. enjoy the ride.. keep out of trouble, if you can! ;)
DAH, All…
i’ve noticed that with digital i tend to be much more trigger happy than in my film days.
i see this as a lazy/bad habit i’m trying to kick… especially as it doesn’t increase my
‘hit rate’… do you notice a difference between shooting digital & film?
DAH how much do you shoot (rolls or GB’s) vs. 5-star book/nat geo usable shots?
For example, how many photos from the carnival do you envisage making it into nat geo,
and from how many eligible images, and how much have you shot???
cheers
DAH… just re-read… i hope i don’t come across as being presumptuous…
asked with the greatest of respect, of course.
hello
Sam,
Me too, I always feel I overshoot with digital then suffer the consequenses when trying to edit and being faced with a plethora of usable pics and tons of useless pics.
I too have a feeling of lazy/bad habit, but is this a hangover from the old days when you had to way up the cost of shooting to much/getting to the end of a roll at the critical moment/ not having enough film for the shoot.
I too sort of feel you should be more disciplined when shooting and only shoot what is necessary, but at the end of the day the technology is here to be able to shoot a huge amount very easily, why not take advantage of it? I feel when shooting a story with a specific goal shooting too much can be a distraction as you can end up looking in every direction and at every story rather than concentration on what you want to tell.
DAH put it very well in an interview with Erica Mcdonald (hope you don’t mind me quoting this Erica/DAH) http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com/ “You pick a corner. If you start looking in too many directions at once, you get very confused, and think I gotta go there, I gotta go there. Based on experience, based on the light, based on the mood of the people in the picture, I just gamble that it’s gonna happen right there. If I started thinking, hey, the best picture is on the other block, then I’m dead. I have to declare to myself where I am is where the best picture is.
Good question.
cheers
ian
SAM…
yours is a question that is on many photographers minds..a legit question that i myself would ask…
i think all of us are a bit more “trigger happy” with digi…i was always considered i think a minimalist in terms of number of rolls shot with film at both Natgeo and Magnum, but i do shoot more frames with digi than i did with film…sometimes i lament this fact, but i am not sure why since it really makes no difference as long as the final outcome is what you want…
the Natgeo story on Rio will probably be an 18-24 page spread depending on many factors…this means i will have approximately 15-20 pictures published for my 6-8 weeks of work here…about the length of an essay here on Burn…obviously the ratio of published to shot is extraordinary…however, i do not count clicks…i only count selects…if i have at the end of all this 30-40 “selects” then i will be about on course for both the magazine and for me…out of those selects, i would imagine having maybe 10 photographs that i would keep in my head as being special…hard to make the “special” category…
there are always two factors for me…one is to make the editors pleased they chose me for this assignment..i take this very seriously and have a very old fashioned work ethic….however, the other is to make sure that i am proud of this work for myself…getting paid certainly is not to be taken for granted in our business…it has always always been difficult in this business to be financed to do what you do naturally…for this i have been extremely lucky most of my career…at the same time for Rio and for many projects i do, i look for the long term..beyond the immediate publishing needs….that is book and exhibition….and for those two “final” ends , i am the only person who needs to be satisfied…
however, that “end” seems far far away for me now since i am simply concentrating on the moment…on total immersion…i have not even gone to the computer once to look at what i have done the last few weeks…i check to make sure the files are all in and not corrupted or whatever, but i do not really look at the pictures…
i do not want to be in any way self satisfied…i am shooting now…trying to go deep…trying to stay loose….and yet managing a whole bunch of logistics, researching, talking to people, making contacts, figuring out the essence of the culture of Rio…a solid 14-18 hours per day at least…but, i will look at the pictures later…not now….
ok, gotta go…my 10 minutes of free time and coffee has gone into this note..laughing…hope this helps…
cheers, david
Sam I run another spectrum…… look at what is in front of me, feel the camera ask what am I going to do with the image if there is is a lack lustre response from the grey matter I don’t bother preferring to hang about instead.
Including work related images I probably took about 1700 photos last year , this year I am up to about 200 odd. Pretty lazy in the photo taking
Sam,
For the past year I have been shooting personal projects with an M2 and BW400CN. If you care to see http://twoeightproject.wordpress.com/ . Half way through the first roll I realized how “trigger happy” I had become with digital. For me it was sort of wake-up call. A bit more thinking/observing/anticipating has really helped me tame the digital urge. In a way I have found a way to monitor my professional shooting behavior through the personal projects. Less is more?
i try to be as select with shooting digi as i am with film, because it isn´t free either in terms of time nor in terms of storage or backup..
shoot 5 or 10 gigs per job.. back it up.. archive it and it soon adds up… just in terms of file conversions and editing it takes a long while.
really quickly became bored of flicking through ¨what did i take that for?¨ type pictures quickly after starting to shoot some digital last year and have not looked through anything shot over the past year, apart from on commission…. there is a story about settling in norway, i hope…
IMANTS..
i do the same…i do not try to make something out of nothing if it does not move me…surely our use of the pictures may be different in the short run, but not in the long in terms of what i eventually want to happen…what you want to happen is all Imants and what i want to happen is all David…that is, in the end, photographs must be personal…of course commissions do put some spin on things…and all of us work out our economic lives in a different way…i use commissions to pay for my living needs which i try to keep as low as possible and most importantly to finance all the work i do that pays nothing..which is most of what i do…i am unlikely to do any commissioned work for the rest of the year..and if i decide to shoot in Australia, i am hoping you have a sofa where i may sleep…and, of course, mi casa es tu casa when you come to new york..
cheers, david
In the film Vs digital shooting rate debate, I see digital as a positive. That said, I’m currently shooting film and scanning the results: not because I’m pro film but because I can’t find a digital camera that I really like. I find digital liberating in that it allows experimentation. Want to try some slow-shutter-speed street shots, or slow-shutter-speed with flash? No problem. Yes, you can use the same technique with film but the thought of scanning so many near misses in order to find the keeper can be (is) daunting.
All I need now is a small, quiet, discreet digital camera with good AF, fast and ease of use. PMA is here and I don’t see anything for me so-far.
Mike.
Thought I’d share this.
Interesting blog on photojournalism etc.
http://www.jezblog.com/index.php?showimage=1077
Aitken, I can recommend Don McCullin’s book, Unreasonable Behaviour, as an insight into how his childhood helped to shape his future as a photographer.
I recall in particular his description of the war in Biafra and the use of famine as a weapon of war. Grim reading.
Mike.
Thanks Mike
ian
Sam, all
I suspect most of us shoot many more frames when shooting digital than we did with film. I don’t think this is a bad thing, but it does make us approach a shoot in a different way. In my film days, I had a different more contemplative mind set when shooting medium format than I did when shooting 35mm, and a different mind set again for the times when I used 4×5.
There is no question that the ratio of keepers is much smaller with digital. This does not mean a lazy approach. Digital allows a flurry of shots in any situation, allowing you to capture small variations in expressions or small changes in composition.
Ultimately, I come away from a digital shoot with more keepers than I would have gotten with film.
Before Felix was born I swore up and down I was only going to shoot film of his life. Well… about 8000 digital frames later and only a handful of rolls I’m eating those words. And really no regrets. I’ve invested in a couple of the best digital cameras on the market today and yes, it was a big initial outlay, but I no longer have those inner groans when I write a big check to the lab only to find there’s really nothing truly worthy on the rolls of film. Plus, I have no time to be running across town to drop off and pick up rolls of film. I’m a one man operation and with a baby, home remodel, etc just no time.
That said I have pulled out the Rolleiflex and now that the guy is a bit bigger he can start fitting into a 6X6 frame. I think 35 digital is now so close to film it’s really only medium format that film still pulls way ahead.
ian / mike
unreasonable behavior is a good read.. reads as he sounds and also lends excellent context with his narrative on childhood n teens.. his back-yard work which led to what it led to.
tim pages ‘page after page’ is a similarly reflective book.. and the difference seen in their work and approach is as different as the back-yards they started in..
still reading paul strands biography right now..
really slow on books with words
What an interesting discussion. I am always amazed at our unique perspectives on things. But equally amazed at our likenesses.
For instance, Sam is trying to tame his trigger-happy digi tendenncies where Gordon says it is no problem to him, that “Digital allows a flurry of shots in any situation, allowing you to capture small variations in expressions or small changes in composition.” I’m more like Gordon. When I find an image I know I want, one that sets up that resonance in me, I like to take LOTS of shots so as to have LOTS of choices in terms of facial expression, body language, comp and POV.
DAH says he has been shooting for weeks now without looking at any of his photos on the computer, that that helps him stay in the “zone.” Whereas, I check out each day’s shoot that night, and even edit the few that speak to me. Then I keep a running “possibles” edit in Aperture that I can see in slideshow format at will. This helps me know what is working and what isn’t, how the whole is shaping up in terms of mood and meaning, and where I want/need to go next. On this two and a half week shoot I was happy to have a weekend off in the middle when I got out of town to visit my sister. That break allowed me to really look at where I was and see what was missing. I discovered I needed more simple around-the-house shots of Scott and Phil, so that’s what I’m focusing on now.
I must say, though, that I have never been a serious film photographer. I bought my first serious camera in July 2006 and it was a digital. It suits me to a T.
Patricia
DAVID,
Reading “Just Kids” right now, Patti Smith’s autobiography of her time with Robert Mapplethorpe in NY in the late sixties and seventies. Amazing dreamlike book. Never want it to end. Highly recommended.
Funny I have had McCullin’s book on the shelf for years now but never read. Will have to pull it down next.
CP
David B;
I’ve got two copies of unreasonable behaviour. A paperback that stays in my travel pack/overnight bag and a hardback that never leaves home. The chapter when he is in the Ugandan jail sends shivers through my spine every time I think of it…
The only other book I have two copies of is Bill Allard’s “The Photographic Essay”. I found an extra copy a while ago in our local library’s dispersal sale for 50c! They said they were getting rid of it because it was “old information” and not relevant anymore. I couldn’t believe it!
Charles;
I can remember the days when I had 2 or 3 articles ready (written) to send off but not enough cash to get the 4 or 5 rolls of Velvia or Provia processed! Now I usually have the pics ready while I’m still stuffing around with the words!
Patricia
“Whereas, I check out each day’s shoot that night, and even edit the few that speak to me. Then I keep a running “possibles” edit in Aperture that I can see in slideshow format at will. This helps me know what is working and what isn’t”
I’m exactly like this too, or at least it’s my goal to look through the work as soon as possible. The time between shooting and editing does something to my nerves that makes my mind go quite unfocused. Not being 100% certain of what I’ve got is simply not a good feeling, and I always end up feeling more positive if I look through the pictures sooner rather than later. “Okey, these sucked, but at least NOW I KNOW, and I know what to do from here.”
test from Istanbul…Haik anti-filtered me..i think ..haaa
Another topic
Do you guys ever go through your archives for the sake of deleting? Can it a good feeling to delete a picture?
Ian
Forgot to thank you for the link you shared. Good to see that photographers are gathering forces against the stupidity.
Bjarte, I never go back for the sake of deleting, but I do revisit some old projects to see if there are some hidden gems that I had previously overlooked.
Firstly DAH…
thanks for such a insightful reply.
All…
interesting stuff, i want to join in further, just woke up and need
to get an early start. today i hand deliver part one of our migration application…
also Yael’s Birthday today so not sure if i’ll get any time later…
as BB say’s ‘running’…
All…breaking news…from Istanbul..
read here:
http://www.euronews.net/2010/02/23/coup-plot-accused-appear-in-istanbul-court/
many demonstration taking part all night.. about 1:15am local time i heard 7 to 10 gunshots outside my hotel window…Siraselviler cd street…on the east side of the Taksim square..i have a feeling it was the police coz all of a sudden everything is too quiet..all of a sudden…too quiet..hmmm..and im out of cigarettes…
hmm.maybe its time to quit…
I’m afraid i will see James Nachtwey around here..very soon…soonest i would say ..
(attempting to laugh)
big hug
1:35am now…still very quiet outside…….it feels like the zombies are in town..
Anyway…since i cant sleep…
2nd day of Nikos’s workshop today…everything went smooth….i walked a lot…more than i thought…Actually on my way to visit Agia Sofia i walked (accidentally) through the courtyard where the accused generals and army folks were … another gun shot…
im definitely not buying cigarettes tonight..thats for sure…
1:44 am…..
http://www.euronews.net/2010/02/23/miners-trapped-in-turkey-pit-explosion/
another disaster in turkey…
“..A rescue operation is underway after an explosion ripped through a coalmine in northwest Turkey.
Many miners are feared trapped underground by the blast at the privately-run pit in Dursunbey province.
Mining disasters are common in Turkey. The worst, in 1992, killed 263 workers…”
Speaking of your digital vs discussion and how many frames shot and the editing process that follows, since I am a guy who is quite religious about keeping a daily photo blog and seldom misses, I download and edit just about every single night.
When I am on an actual job, I shot my DSLR’s and I shoot lots, and it can take forever to edit.
When I am shooting for my blog, I primarily shoot a pocket camera – right now, that camera is the Canon s90. I’m not certain exactly what the recycle between shots time is, but it is definitely more than a second. So I do not shoot a bunch of frames, because it is impossible. It makes me think differently about getting my original capture and saves me a huge amount of editing time.
Despite its disadvantages, it is very quiet and descrete, and easy to hold in awkward extensions of the arm that would be very difficult with a heavy DSLR. While I miss shots that I would have gotten with a fast DSLR, I also get shots that I could never have gotten with a DSLR.
As for film, I have no desire ever to shoot another frame, period.
Also, I am hoping, even betting, that in two to three years, pocket/compact camera technology will have advanced enough that I can just chuck my DSLR’s, because I don’t like them that much, anymore, now that I have used pocket cameras.
Frosfrog; have you looked at the Oly ep-1 and ep-2?
Ross…been tearing myself over the last few weeks on the ep-1 or panasonic gf1 (17 or 20mm) or a full-frame dslr….small, discrete, rangefinder-ish vs. files than can make as large a print as I’d ever want of something I shoot…
and then I realize I am drifting into the “buy and play with gear instead of shoot” cycle….and decide I need to go out and just shoot more. heck, a few regulars here regularly post shots on their facebook accounts that they take with their iphones that are better than anything I get with my full kit… :)
but yes…oly ep-1/2 or panasonic GF1 are very intriguing, especially when you add a fast prime (17 or 20mm) and an optical viewfinder…..I still am curious as to how large a print you could realistically expect from the 4/3 system.
panos – be safe, don’t get arrested, and GET THE SHOTS! :)
good light, all
a.
Andrew B;
It’s way to easy to obsess over gear. I just take the D200 or 300 and a 24mm prime and figure that if I can’t do it with that then it’s MY fault… :-)
Ross – EXACTLY!
I just get into these moods sometimes and have to remind myself of that truth….
AITKEN..and ERICA..
Just read the quote you put up from Erica, and I see photography much the same way much of the time. I also tend to feel out a place, right down to a corner, and spend my time concerntrating on what is happening looking out from that spot. I find , for me, this enables me to connect.
I noticed this with your photography Erica. Very local and knowledgeable. Capturing those fleeting moments that so often lay only in our memory.
thanks for the reminder AITKEN.
Cheers,
Peter.
“I just get into these moods sometimes and have to remind myself of that truth….”
So it’s not only magpies that are attracted to shiny things then? :-)
ALL
I’ve just posted a photo from my new project on my blog. Things are moving along well and I am absolutely loving every minute of this work. As DAH says, this is not a job but a way of life. This kind of single-minded immersion is my idea of heaven. And it doesn’t much matter whether the photos work or not; I just love taking them. Happily, I still have five more full days of shooting before returning home.
http://patricialaydorsey.blogspot.com/
By the way, if you click on the pic it will come up larger…
Patricia
Patrica…. like that photo of the older lady writing.. nice.
Patricia,
what a great picture. Wow. Colour works wonderfully. B/W would not work at all here.
Now I am curious on the whole work. Wonderful.
Ross – Not yet. Do you have experience with them?
Patricia – It is a way of life, and that can be a curse as much as blessing, because you have to do it whether you get paid or not, and sometimes, when people are eager and willing to pay you good money, you can’t take it because it doesn’t feel right and so you go off and shoot something that pays nothing at all.
Nice image. I have your blog bookmarked and will check it often.
Now I’ve got to work on mine. It is 11:35 PM and I am just downloading my pix now.
“i do not try to make something out of nothing if it does not move me” …….. David the problem is that at times it is the nothing that keeps one there. That empty area devoid of use, taken for granted, dismissed and enjoyed in the mind, leading into a neutrality that suddenly says yea got it…..thanks for the shot. Lets move on (smugly of course) ……….. get home and it no longer serves the purpose intended. Wack it with the also rans that are never viewed and discovered 7 years later, hmmmn now I wonder what that image was about, ,, yea got it.
A part of my inability and dislike for staying in a single zone …….
Check out Olivier’s work and you will see some of that type of journey,,,, click a portfolio eg flashback and then the image to travel. http://www.olivierpin-fat.com/portfolio.html
ps David as adventurer to our shores there is more than a couch, there is a bed and an en suite (doubles as a darkroom now). The dog will suck you in and you will cater for his whims and need for companionship. Always welcome here David, few come down this way, they must reckon we are philistines or something of that ilk, maybe it Ross’s Kiwi compatriots ………….. maybe it is just me.
a link about photo stuff http://olivierpin-fat.com/words_001.html
Imants. Interesting work.
IMANTS…
i do not think we can blame EVERYTHING on Ross!! yes, he is a Kiwi, but quite the gentleman to be sure, so i think we have to cut the boy some slack….sleeping with your dog works for me….as long as she/he loves me the morning after….
… the cousins across the ditch do well these days with film after all Avatar is a nifty movie http://www.filmcontact.com/new-zealand/avatar-marks-new-direction-new-zealand-film-industry
hey everyone…
back from Japan again… and a book dummy to show for :-)
check it out: http://www.antonkusters.com/odo-book-dummy/
hugs to all,
anton
ahha – was just going to post that link mate..
looks very good..
who printed the dummy out of interest?
Imants/David/all:
Oli (pin-fat) is a personal friend and ironically, he and i have been chatting about Christian’s essay all week…..those who are in the BKK area should attend his opening in april…
if you are in the hood in BKK, send me an email, i’ll send u an invitation….Oli is a great guy, let alone a great photographer, and his book will finally be published this year (about time!!!)….
ANTON:
book looks magnificent.dreamy.water-green-rich :))))…can wait to have it on the shelf :))
gotta fly
hugs
b
ANTON.I like it full bleed like that. Looking good.
david b my friend
blurb… they give the option nowadays to do a complete design yourself and upload a PDF (as long as it’s within their guidelines of course)
a
hey bob
thanks for the comment… no the book is only in “dummy” stage, might still change shape/size/pages…
but i’ll start to look for a publisher soon… hopefully that one will work out
cheers
a
BURNIANS…you remind me …the mushrooms…:)))
…you are expanding rapidly in size or scope and you pop up like mushrooms, you appear unexpectedly and quickly…books, exhibitions,galleries, workshops…I LOVE you and I Believe in you !!!
YOU ARE PHOTO PHILOSOPHERS …!!!
Bravo ANTON…beer on the Japanese today…
John G mate,
yeah full bleed for this project is by far the best way to go… it just draws you in….
designed many alternatives but it always somehow came back to the simplest strongest: the full bleed.
a
civilian!
you bet… Japanese beer it is!
hugs,
a
and HAPPY very late HAPPY BIRTHDAY…ROSSY…and to all the others and to the readers and to the sponsors…
we wish
LOVE,PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY!!!
BOBB…be safe
PANOS…be safe
ourPATRICIA…have fun
POMARA… you eagle too
SAM…you good mate
BRIAN…on your way
IMANTS…silent
DAVIDB…I count on you
KATIEEEEELOVE… ahhhhhh,KATIE… I am just roaming …speecless
…
…you and you and you …the endless searching for the ” BURNING” …
VIVA!!!
Hugs…BURNING ANTON…
BUT …
the just the beer will do it for me…
Can I say …I BURN …for BURN???
Patricia
thanks for the sneak peek, I was hoping you would post something.
This shot has your stamp on it, you are such a natural. Good luck with the rest of the shoot.
wonder if this an one-off incident or this is the future…?!
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/24/mall-security-guard.html
Just shipped off my Mamiya RZ system to a collector in Vancouver. I’ve been hanging on to it hoping for some magical technology to develop that would give me a full frame digital back for less than I paid for my Honda. Alas, it did not materialize. I have not put film in it since late ’03 or early ’04 if I remmember right. I still remmember the job, it was a large group shot in difficult light. I shot with the RZ, then for the hell of it, took some shots with my then new 6mp Canon Rebel. We ended up using the Rebel shots. That was the last time it saw film.
Still, I couldn’t bear to part with it until now. I got $1050 for the RZ outfit, body, meter prism, 3 backs, 3 lenses. I think I’ll buy a new monitor with the money. I’ve still got a Pentax 645 with four lenses, time to sell it too I guess.
It’s not the film I miss, but the cameras. In a fit of nostalgia, I’ve taken to checking out the local charity thrift store for old cameras. A couple of weeks ago I just could not resist the pristine black body Pentax Spotmatic with 1.4 lens for $25 . I don’t know what the hell I’ll do with it, as an old Spotmatic user, I just couldn’t walk away from it.
DAH,
Do you shoot the M9 DNG only? If you shoot pls jpeg it is slower than molasses. Also Leica recommends the Ultra 16gb as the better card. Only in Leica world would a $7k body work better with slower cheaper card. I also never use C mode as that’s the few times I ever had lock ups with M8. Still the images I’m getting from it are beautiful. Hopefully you will be happy. CP
GORDON :ø)
i like the addiction to thrift stores..
i really want to get hold of an old rz, some thin sheet metal, soldering kit and make a medium format backed camera which uses 35mm lenses.. i figure the resulting image be circular – or i could bang 35mm film through and have the film sprockets exposed as well..
the amazingly cheap availability of 35mm systems.. even medium format.. means butchering camera for fun is on the cards..
d
Anton
“i let time go over the edits. i let places go over the edits. i let people go over the edits.”
There are wisdom in these words. I’ll keep them with me in the future!
Have you given yourself any deadline with the book? (Do you like deadlines?)
Hi all,
if you fancy having a look live at the nuts and bolts of what happens after a commercial shoot, editing, post production etc tune into http://blog.chasejarvis.com/live/
Thursday, February 25th from 10am to 12:30pm (PST, which is GMT -8)
Here’s the rough schedule:
**all times are Pacific Standard Time, Seattle (GMT -8), everything is subject to change and probably will….
10:00am – 10:45am Recap, workflow, gear, and editing.
10:45am – 12:00noon Raw conversion, initial retouch through final workup. Cover image #1
12:00noon – 12:30pm Raw conversion, initial retouch through final workup. Cover image #2 (in case you missed #1 and/or to reinforce what we did first time around).
12:30 – 1:00pm Followup Q&A, clean up.
1:00pm Off the air
Cheers
ian
ANTON,
Love it. Want to see the whole thing! Personally I’m a big fan of full page bleeds. Touch Me I’m Sick is that – the publisher wanted me to add some white borders but I liked the claustrophobic feel that was apropo to the material. The only thing I would watch for is those gutters. If possible I crop the image slightly in order to move something important out of the gutter. Two shots I see this might improve them – the man leaving the car and the ashtray on the tatami. The nice thing about full bleeds is one doesn’t have to concern themselves about staying faithful to the full frame ethos.
The batting into the sea is superb. I want that one on my wall!
Best,
CP
Civi – You went through a long list but left the Frostfrog out!
I don’t think I can bear to live out this day…
I like full page bleeds, too. Historically I have done many of them in my old Uiñiq magazine, but now I’ve got a new one about to come out but I hardly did any at all. I wanted to, but I had too many pictures and too many stories to tell.
Now I wonder if I did the right thing. Maybe I should have done more full bleeds to get the impact, and left more of the side stories untold.
Oh well.
What’s done is done.
Uiñiq, by the way, is the Iñupiaq Eskimo word to describe the lead that opens and closes between the ice that is anchored to the shore and the polar pack, constantly in motion.
Istanbul , Nikos E workshop day 4th…
Busy helping today..havent shot one single photo for myself..
Ara Guler’s wife died today…Funeral tomorrow…After that checking some new locations with Nikos…
i doubt if im gonna have some shooting time either…so i suspect that friday and sat i will push it as hard as i can to catch up with what i want to finish…its almost midnight…maybe i still have some time left…
goodnight from Istanbul y’all…
big hug
David
Thirty years ago I adapted a 50mm lens with leaf shutter from an old 35mm folder onto a 2 1/4sq folder in order to get round pictures. I think I threw out some of the pics recently but still believe I have the camera burried somewhere.
Emmet Gowin, years ago used a 90mm on an 8×10 view camera which gave lovely round photos.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/xyusoma/photographers/EmmetGowin-dress.jpg
It is interesting to note that the first popular consumer camera, the Kodak #1, took round photos. http://www.boxcameras.com/no2kodaksnapshots.html
David B
Can’t believe I found it but here it is http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/122266454
Bummer I can’t find any of the pics I took with it, I think I may have thrown them out in a purge about a year ago.
Anyway, if you wanna fool around with it send me your address and I’ll mail it to you. glafleurphoto@shaw.ca
ANTON
YIPPEE!!!!! It’s like birthing a baby, isn’t it. Only the gestation time is longer. Your sample pages look fabulous — very you, very unique and with a hint of danger. There is such a mood to this work. Only you could have done it in this way. True authorship.
BIG congrats and hugs
Patricia
P.S. Can’t wait to have an autographed copy in my hands!
Anton,Patricia
I don’t know nothin’ about birthin’ no babies, but it must be very exciting to see your projects take shape.
Anton, I’m always absolutely amazed at what you’ve taken on. The few photos we’ve seen here have always been fascinating, mysterious, hinting at much more. Your description of the recent events almost makes me hold my breath for you.
I have to admit I’m not thrilled with the full bleed, at least not all the time. Although big is always impressive, cutting your photos in half with a gutter can be a bummer, and then there is always the problem of having your pictures trimmed to fit the format of the book. Even if the format fits the format of your photos, there is always trimming involved. Not a problem with the examples in your preview, but troublesome when there are important elements near the edges of the frame.
David; “i do not think we can blame EVERYTHING on Ross!! yes, he is a Kiwi, but quite the gentleman to be sure”
Gentleman???? I’ve been trying to cultivate a “hard man” image for years and you ruin it in one statement! I sound like I should be in a Jeeves and Wooster episode now. :-)
I blame it all on that scurrilous rogue Uncle Imants; he’s forever blackening my name.
You probably won’t make it across the ditch from New Zealand’s “West Island” (aka Australia); but if you feel the need for some sophisticated company after spending a few night with my yokel cousin Uncle Imants, feel free to drop in. Plenty of beds and you won’t be relegated to sleeping in the bloody dog kennel here! :-)
Had an interesting day today. Had a shoot to do for a cover and article. The editor rang me up on Tuesday and said they needed the piece asap. It just happened to be the same mag that pulled the pin on the 6 (completed) articles I mentioned a while back. The mag had changed focus etc…
Anyway; she rang late Tuesday night (sounding very sheepish) and asked if I could have the pics to them by Friday (on the Thurs night 5pm courier at the latest) and the words by Monday. The people who I had to shoot (their excavating/contracting business) couldn’t do it til today (Thursday).
We’ve had 4 or 5 weeks of beautiful 24-28º C days but got up at 5am this morning and it was absolutely hosing down. Drive for 45 minutes to get there; rain stops; horrible gray skies to shoot their digger (excavator) against. Get directions mixed up so have to stop and ask but get there in time for the 8am appointment.
Took as good a shots as possible; do the taped interview in case the sun comes out later, which it did. Go back after interview to re-shoot everything; get back home at 12.30pm.
Download pics, Do PS work on the select 25 RAWS and convert to 8 bit TIFFS, burn CD’s, fly down to the post office to get the CDs on the courier with ½ an hour to spare. Phew; made it!!!
Oh I forgot to mention; my SB-600 flash packed up doing the portrait shoots. Sounded like a .22 rifle going off when it died, I’m not sure who jumped the most me or the portrait subjects! :-)
Now; just got to get the story finished by Monday. And best of all make absolutely nothing on it because I’ll have to replace the SB600! Que sera sera :-)
Cheers!
Anton – Just to back up, the last comment I made was done after seeing the discussion about full bleed, but I hadn’t actually looked at yours. I just took a good look at your full-bleed double truck. I like it. It looks good to me, hope I get to see the book.
Frostfrog; I haven’t tried the EP-1 or 2; I just thought they may suit since you seem to prefer small cameras.
Cheers
BJARTE
thanks for the comment…
i have no deadline for the book, because i see that i am pushing forward faster than anyone can follow anyway :-)
i do have a sort-of deadline for the shoot: in the beginning we (Soichiro and I) set a minimum of 24 months, and now i am exactly twelve months in… shooting (mind you, before i could even begin shooting, we had about 10 months of negotiations to be able to start the project in the first place)
but… what has happened last week, the death of one of the family bosses, and me flying over there immediately to pay my respects and photograph the funeral and passing rituals, has set so much in motion that we kind of all feel like now the project is only really starting…
as for the book dummy: i’ll be using it to approach publishers soon.. but i have a problem that i am creating for many different media, and that i don’t know of a publisher that handles all “channels” simultaneously very well (book, magazine, internet, tv, multimedia,…)… meaning that i will have to approach them individually and try to “marry” every publisher’s intentions with each other…
there must be some kind of “publishing brokers” out there, no?
:-)
just kidding, i have no clue if people ever will want to publish what i am creating.
cheers,
a
CHARLES, FROSTFROG, GORDON
i felt a full page bleed would be great for this story… i do put a lot of thought and trial and error into the exact formats a particular story should be told in…. and personally for me, my images are always “in the service of” the story so to speak… so if the story “demands” that i use full page bleed, at the expense of (minimally) cropping image edges, then so be it…. BUT i will also make a specific edit because i know this on beforehand….
Gordon:
just so you know, this is not a “big” book… only approx 8×10″… it’s smaller than most photo books, and has, opened, a 3:2 proportion… and yes, when i decided the book was going to be full bleed, i made an edit particularly for that “product”… for the multimedia i will make a different edit, for the magazine yet again a different edit, for the relugar slideshow… yet again… a lot of work, but the only way i can deal with it i guess.
basically, come to think of it, i don’t let my images dictate the format of my book, i let the story i want to tell dictate the format (of the book or whatever product i am creating) and thus by consequence the edit…
the images serve the story that i see happening as a person being there…. and the full bleed serves that part of the story as well… as well as the fact that i lose a percentage of the center-fold… this is all no accident…
FYI, i did talk i bit about the relation between edit/story/project/vision in the latest post on my site.
thanks for your insights… they are always well though through… and make me think about the decisions i made :-)
a
hey PATRICIA,
yes a dummy is a nice thing to see.. especially when other people hold it in their hands and you see them leafing through it and making their own story of your story as they go along…
BUT, it’s still just a dummy… i’ll be using this book dummy to target select publishers… who hopefully will be able to help me…
and yes, if successful, you will be the first to get an autographed copy, personally delivered at your door!!
hugs,
a
Great stuff Anton, love the full bleeds but a whole book of full bleeds hmmmnn may over run the content…..dunno
hey imants…
in the book there are also chapters of text and pages of short copy…
a
hmm, anton.. full bleed also means no verticals.. conscious choice or habit?
hey eva….
it’s more a habit than anything else… but even if i have them, verticals can be full bleed as well, either by combining two on a spread, or having no image on the left or right… it actually works surprisingly well.
but to be honest, up till now, i have made only ONE vertical in this project… remember the first tattoo image of Soichiro here… i don’t know why this is, i have nothing against verticals at all, i love them, it just seems like i never make them
x
a
I think a lot has to do with the 16:9 TV screens, the web also invites to horizontal view, but I think verticals are important, they break up the flow.. I very much like for example Mike Young’s BBQ book, or Harvey’s Living Proof, but I think they’d benefit form a more “bumpy” visual impact, throwing in a few verticals..
Anton
“i don’t know why this is, i have nothing against verticals at all, i love them, it just seems like i never make them”
Probably because horizontal is the way we see with our eyes. Vertical is a trickier way to document what we see, at least for me it is.
Eva
“but I think verticals are important, they break up the flow..”
If they can break up the flow nicely then it’s a good thing, but I’ve experienced that they have confused more than anything else with a project I’m working on, because of them being so different. It’s like they speak another language than horizontals, and a project should speak the same visual language.
But if it feels right, then it feels right. No one can take that away from you.
Bjarte, with breaking the flow I was thinking of something like a visual wave, not a language breakup. I find it more interesting, less predictable.. but then, I like it also with written books, when something unexpected happens..
About the way we see, I really think we’re very much influenced by the pixel presentation of photography vs. print presentation, just look at older photography, you’ll find much much more verticals than nowadays.
FROSTFROG,
You know mate …I LOVE U…you keep that side of the Universe …in a BURNING mode
BUT…you are ALL in my civilian Eyes …the VISION of the World !!!
ANTON,
I am ok with the dummy book…
BURNIANS,
Uiñiq…with red wine
VIVA !!! I have a feeling…Greece is going down cause Soccer is going up…!!!
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL…KATIEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEE… can u please…check in….
and where is JIMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY POWERSSSSSSSSSSSS???
VIVA ROMA-VIVA PANATHINAIKOS…!!!
What can I say …Vertical or no…if I like …I like…
If I don’t …I don’t …
Eva
Hmmmm, I think the “more interesting & less predictable” part should come from what’s inside the photographs, not from the format.
I prefer the “work with what you’ve got mentality” a lot, and for me that goes for my equipment, what format I’m used to, how I edit, where I gather knowledge/inspiration/advices etc etc. The reason why I like the mentality is that it makes me work on my strengths, rather than trying out too many different things which may distract from the work (where I want as few distractions as possible).
I think you’re right about modern photographers being affected by horizontal screens, except from fashion photographers who gets more pushed to see things vertical when shooting for magazines.
And then there’s the square…
Bjarte:
“Hmmmm, I think the “more interesting & less predictable” part should come from what’s inside the photographs, not from the format.”
Of course, always, nor format, nor tools, or technical questions come before the content, that is obvious! It can’t be a question of “it’s a bad horizontal pic, let’s safe it making it vertical”, that was not what I meant..
And then there’s pano.. ;)
on the point and shoot issue. i love them. there is lag, but you can get used to it if you want to. i just recently shot this with the canon g11–files are great at iso 400….http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1964092,00.html
Kenneth,
Thanks for sharing – those look nice! Did you have to run any post-processing noise reduction? Also, how was focusing speed in low light?
thanks Justin
i just processed the raws into jpegs in DPP and that was about it. no noise reduction–i wouldnt know how to do that (even though i do have noise ninja, i dont have the slightest clue how to use it).
focusing speed. well, you have to get used to it. but i have found that it is fine for me. the g11 does seem to be slower than the g10…..
Istanbul day 5…
workshop getting more intense…students are exhausted…some progressing..some went one step back…
Funeral for Ara’s wife took place at 1pm… i managed to shoot couple photos this afternoon… then red wine and kokoretci…Nikos introduced me to another great local photog today that did a long great photo study on the city transvestites … Men that come from rural Turkey/Anatolia … some of them with wives/kids/families…No work at their villages so they come to Istanbul for “work”…save money and send them back to their families..
Presentation of this work tomorrow night..i will do my best to introduce this photog to burn audience soonest..
ohh btw ..today i showed Patricia’s latest photo from the san diego couple at the class…
Nikos loved it…nothing more to say..
big hug and goodnight from Istanbul..
ps: congratulation to panathinaikos.. excellent game in rome…. made some greeks here in turkey very, very proud… but pride is a sin so i shut up..laughing…
peace
Maybe you shouldn’t make career out of this Panos………burn yourself out on red wine. Sounds like a great photo playtime there
PANOS
Oh my God, you showed MY photo to Nikos and the class???? I am beyond honored. AND Nikos liked it????? You have just made my day! Only three more shoooting days here but I’m feeling fine about that. The essay is developing nicely, mainly because these fellows are letting me into the most intimate recesses of their lives. Yesterday I photographed Scott getting out of the shower (yes, he had a towel around his middle) and today he invited me into the examining room while he was seeing his doctor. I was in 7th heaven when the doc turned on a spotlight to burn off some moles on Scotty’s chest. Perfect light on both of them!!! Last night I recorded my second dialogue of the guys talking about their relationship. Wow. Incredibly touching.
Trust you are having the time of your life with Nikos and the class. Panos, you have SO found your niche. You, my dear, are going to go places you never imagined. You already are.
xxooo
Patricia
what is it with people suddenly missing road trips under the metro essay?
fear of the new… daft anyway, as it´s still here.. here.
GORDON
thanks for the link to emmets photo.. thats the idea.. i know that extreme fisheye lomos do it as well.. just thought of something to play about at of an evening and see how good the quality could get..
thanks for the offer of sending your camera – very kind..
postage to norway is expensive though, and they can be difficult about import tax.. actually all tax is very tightly controlled over here :ø)
ANTON
the only concern i have had with laying out my work for full bleed over two pages is being aware of how important the center line of the photo is going to be..
for that reason i´m now working with a landscape format book template.. i think there will be a couple of 2 page full bleed panoramics, although apart from that it will be right page photos with left page captions.
i guess you have seen ´divided soul´?
one thing i have enjoyed about your blog posts and posts here are the short stories about the instance of taking the photos.. this is something david has done in DS as well.. something i may do.
what do you have in mind for the text at the moment?
d
also ANTON
just thinking that the binding becomes important with double full page bleeds.. i have a couple of books with broken spines :ø)
i guess there is a binding which would do it though – how has the blurb book handled it?
also – is the dummy available to buy through blurb right now?
Anton,
The teasers you are feeding us are very promising. I hope the book is up to par with the few pictures we were allowed to see now and then. I’ll reserve my final ‘verdict’ until I can hold it in my hands though. In fact it is the whole body of work, be it in a book, a multimedia, an exhibition or even on an iPod touch that I would like to be confronted with. I must say that besides making interesting pictures, you’re pretty good at creating the buzz around them ;-)
And while we’re at buzzing, here is a .pdf (39.5Mb) about my Quest for Land story you can download for free (until a publisher commits himself in publishing it for real and in the final version)…
http://johnvink.com/Advocacy/Questbook1.pdf
EVA, BJARTE
for me it is always about the story… what is happening in the photographs is more important than the photographic “format” in and of itself… i firmly believe, that if my story is strong enough, nobody will even notice the format at all…
a
john Vink. Nice.
Intrigued about the cold/warm prints though. Seems to be almost arbtrary9their placing throughout the essay) but im sure its not.
Some look straight, some look selenium..and a few look gold(cold blue)
John
hey david B
i have precisely made my edit knowing that the edges and the center line/area are of importance… the “curve” of the book… that is why i make a new edit for every “medium” i want to create… so yes, i would make a different edit for a landscape book or a portrait book.. and i totally believe that it is possible that with your images there are too many issues if you would do a portrait + full bleed… it all depends.
i also believe in really “using” books… books with broken spines, bent and dog-eared, falling apart, have so much more to offer than a shiny new book trying to remain intact. but yes the quality of course at least has to be up to par to a certain level: i.e. i know the binding of blurb is not suited for this full bleed book i am making. there are other bindings that are better suited for soft cover + full bleed
my example is luc delahaye’s “Winterreise”
oh and…. especially for you… a peek into the short texts that i am adding (long texts will also be added, BUT will look different):
http://www.antonkusters.com/odo-text-screenshot_2010-02-26.jpg
cheers
a
John G.
Either keep your sunglasses on until the last page or don’t… ;-)
Don’t know where you got the warm/cold prints from. It’s all graysale… No duotone in this pdf…
John,
yes… that is precisely what i wish as well… one can only judge with the final product in his/her hands. and every product is different… the iphone presentation will differ from the book differ from the magazine differ from the blog posts… but all will hopefully create a “whole” that makes sense to many people
i feel very fortunate that i can share the process of shooting, thinking, editing with many people here and elsewhere; i learn a lot from the interactions, and anyone can follow how my project is taking shape, growing, changing, hopefully into someting tangible on multiple fronts. i hope to be able to present a full book edit and a full multimedia edit soon. working hard.
In your Questbook i like the idea of telling the story through the captions, and altering different page layouts without breaking the unity. it feels like the mixing of landscape and portrait, bleed or not, is very natural. the book feels like a testament to what has happened/is happening, it has a “wow” feeling of depth and breadth to it. impressive testament, really.
cheers,
anton
The Quest For Land…
ahhhh… the Quest for identity..for love…for tolerance…
the never ending…QUEST…
SPEECHLESS…at least for now…
MR.VINK…thanks …
BURNIANS and of course MR.HARVEY …thank YOU !!!
P.S Speechless
John Vink. For a second there I thought I was imagining it. But there are definately warm and cold tone images in that PDF Page 270 they are even layed out in diagonals showing the contrast.
208-209 also warm. And quite a few others.
Could be this laptop monitor I suppose. …or the sunglasses :)
if they are all in greyscale colourspace it might be interweb related shift. Anyways, no biggie.
John
John V, John G,
just did a prefllight check on yout Questbook: you have many images in sRGB color space and Indexed color space…. no biggie at all, just so you know what is causing this
you can either change all images to grayscale, or re-create the pdf, but setting color to “grayscale”
cheers,
a
Anton. Just did same thing. No biggie at all. I just thought at first it might be a stylistic choice, or different printers/labs doing the workups.
you take the tech out of the lab but …..:)
John
john g,
hehe yes indeed…. :-)
gotta run now… have a nice one today my friend
a
John Vink, wow, nice work, massive project. Have you given any thought to documenting something of the lifestyles of people who benefit from the evictions?
Anton, John G
Shoot… Now I need the sunglasses. I DON’T SEE A DIFFERENCE in colour. But then my roots are in B&W… ;-)
Anyhow there is not supposed to be a difference. They are all supposed to be B&W. They are B&W in my mind, that’s for sure.
Let’s blame it on Lightroom who exports only in RGB (to my knowledge). I usually run them through a Photoshop action to discard the colour info, but I guess a few slipped through the maze.
Michael W.
I’ll again need nine more years for that part… And to tell you frankly: after the last nine years I’m a bit tired. So yes I have thought about it. But I feel I need to develop the symbolic part of the land issues before that.
John V. If you are looking at the original document on your system there may not be a difference. If you open the link you put up to the ‘online’ PDF however, you should see what we mean. Easy fix though, and the images and story look great, very in depth.
john
Thanks John, I was just curious, not criticizing. I guess I haven’t been following closely. Didn’t know you worked on that for nine years. Looks like time well spent. I trust you’ll find a publisher, or one will find you.
On that topic, I must confess I’m a bit shocked about how the photo book publishing industry seems to work, based on these recent posts. Seems one has to edit, design, layout, contract a writer for the forward, and then publish one’s own book before showing it to a publisher? What does the publisher do? Do you have to buy the wine for your opening?
JOHN V “But then my roots are in B&W… ;-)” .yeah me too. im actually in the dark room now hanging negs to dry from a fashion show a couple nights ago. All the young togs with their d3’s and whatnot looking at me like im a fucking alien with my beaten up old leicas…”.YOU SHOOT FILM???” ” WHY???” … I dont have the heart to tell them.
Anton, John G.
Weird: it’s the same document on the server as on my hard disk. I’ll look into it. Thanks for the tips.
Michael W.
It takes more than just being a photographer, that’s for sure. Don’t think that is really new. But about publishers: my last experiences were quite different indeed. And that is not so long ago… Although the layout always was my own. You do want to accompany the baby as far as you can don’t you?
… even when it burps sick all over you in the form of a broken hard-drive..
:ø/
michael,
… very astute observation :-)
but i see it differently: now is the time that photographers have the chance to (re)gain control over a part that they traditionally did not have much influence on… in my case i applaud the chance to do my edit and my own layout and text and such… i would not want it any other way.
on the other hand, i also think photographers who are NOT able to do this, do NOT have less chance of getting published…
i don’t think it is a trend started from the publishing industry, rather from the photography industry: photographers like us taking more control over our work… showing our own vision… putting ourselves out there….
cheers,
a
john V
something anton and i were chatting on a short while ago was how much of the book to ´give away´ before showing publishers..
you´re right to say anton has a healthy buzz spinning around his project, through the drip-drip-drip of tantalizing exerts.. and with your land issues book you are confidently taking the opposite approach and allowing a full dummy to be downloaded..
for a new photographer working on their first book, do you think it is advisable to keep as much back as possible before gaining a publisher, or might it be better to get as many of the photos out-there through as many different means as possible?
planned blanket marketing, or as with anton, a stealthy leave-them-wanting-more approach?
i would guess it could be a personal thing to each person and project – although your thoughts would be interesting..
d
hey john V,
sunglasses on or off here, i don’t see a difference either…. only the preflight check brought it up… so i wouldn’t worry about it at all… i think john was just curious if it was intentional or not
the more i look at it, the more it sinks in that this is a massive testament…. incredible
cheers
a
Yes, I can appreciate having more control over a final product. And these are skills I have acquired, so it’s not so much a personal issue. I’m a jack-of-all-trades type, at least in publishing. Hopefully master of at least one, but certainly not master of all. That’s what I like about the traditional publishing model. Although I can design and layout a book, many people who specialize in layout and design can do it better — and certainly much faster. When I was younger I went overboard insisting on doing all the jobs in a publishing project. Now I much prefer to hand much of it over to professionals. But if that’s what we gotta do, well, I guess I’d see if particular publishers have discernible style preferences and target accordingly.
michael,
cool… yeah i guess it will be fun to see how things will evolve, on publisher’s sides and on photographer’s sides.
in regards to layout: i tend to gravitate much more towards the graphic & typography design industry than the photo-publishers industry… where my roots lie… seeing how the they push the boundaries in regards to books nowadays is simply amazing… i wish it would spill over a bit more into photography world.
a
Anton, good book dummy – I’m not usually a fan of full-page bleed but it really works well here. The vignettes may help. Pretty loose style, reminds me of much Japanese photography: is it an influence?
Best,
Mike.
hey mike…
no no japanese photographers that i know of, but i guess all influence is hidden to the person influenced…
what several japanese have told me is that the feel my images look very “japanese” to them… but unfortunately i don’t know exactcly what that means.. and maybe i am not supposed to know so as not to “kill” it :-)
i guess the japanese culture in general is definitely an influence; it certainly feels that way: nothing to do with personal opinion of the culture (in as far as i could ever be bold enough express one), but i guess more with being “open” to the culture (and the subculture of the yakuza), to learn and to try and understand it, is having an influence on the way i see images happening
i don’t know to what extent this is true… i guess only time will tell, if i ever have the chance to do a long term project in another culture :-)
trying to understand, being open, trying to learn…. i guess one could equate that with “being influenced by”; but then on a slightly different level
cheers
a
Michael,
Yes sometimes you do have to buy your own wine(or pay for the band like I did with Touch Me Im Sick)!
What the publisher is doing is taking a gamble putting up a fair gob of money actually printing the book. Even with the most famous photographers there’s no guarantees the book will actually sell. And after helping a friend a few years back hump 1500 books fresh off the boat from HK into his spare room I knew I never wanted to go that route (even if I did have the $20k to blow). Really it’s up to the photographer to be as proactive as possible. In fact it’s usually in your best interest. I know I wasn’t after the release of my last book and sales tanked (also the worst retail season in history).
We are really lucky to have Blurb. For TMIS printed double side inkjets (and a lot more primitive process in 2002) and then had to go down to the local bindery to put a cover on it. Much easier to just send off a PDF!
Good info Charles, et. al. Thanks. I’d never thought about the photography book scene until reading you guys here. Yet another little world with it’s own rules. Such beautiful products though.
Anton, sorry to be a bit cynical but I suspect most pictures of Japanese people in Japan will look Japanese. Other than that, I guess many would mean it as something like “simple, spare and elegant,” which I could see applying to what little of your work I’ve seen. Though these days I associate Japanese style more with very loud colors than your more muted tones.
Anton,
yes so far from what I’ve seen your images are very Japanese. Maybe it’s the vignetting, the neagtive space (that isn’t totally negative), the sense of simultaneous stillness and action. Could just be the subject matter too. I’m a big fan of classic Japanese cinema esp 50’s and 60’s noir.
Best of luck with this! CP
I guess I should be more specific. By Japanese I mean the classic school of photography, the peak of which was the seventies. Probably the vignetting and the bleeds and graininess have a lot to do with that. Great look.
Anton,
The great thing about bleeds is that for me I always want to see my photos as big as possible (I would hope others do to). And with the trend towards smaller page size books (keeps price down, easier to stock and ship) photographers need to think more outside of the precious little rectangle on the white page. Perfect for some work but not always the most dynamic way of presenting contemporary work.
David B,
can’t say I’m the biggest fan of landscape style books (great for Magnum and travel photography). Like Anton I would say try some bleeds in a portrait book. Try and replicate that shoulder to shoulder others hair and sweat glancing off you experience that your photos are. Make it crowded. My 2p for the day. :)
Thanks for being more specific, Charles. That opens up whole new horizons for the less initiated. A quick look for Japanese photography in the 70’s turns up Japanese photobooks of the 1960s and ’70s, with which you may be familiar. Apparently it’s about photobooks in general as well as specifically Japanese photo books from the period. I’ll have to see if I can find a copy to peruse.
On that subject, I’ve been considering joining the ICP in order to gain access to their library. Has anyone done that? What’s it like?
charles..
totally take your point about it being better to have the chance of showing some photos as large as possible..
have been looking at my library a great deal recently – weighing up pro´s n cons..
i think you may be right so i´ll start playing with portrait format for a while.
anton
really enjoyed the poem.. very apt, to both photography, fatherhood and no doubt to the people you have got to know through photographing them.
the balance reminds me of sri chinmoy.. we´re all everything and nothing.
nothing but existing my friend :ø)
Barren of events,
Rich in pretensions
My earthly life.
Obscurity
My real name.
Wholly unto myself
I exist.
I wrap no soul
In my embrace.
No mentor worthy
Of my calibre
Have I.
I am all alone
Between failure
And frustration.
I am the red thread
Between
Nothingness
And Eternity.
and for D to the AHHHHHH
Michael,
oh man why’d you have to show me that book?!! :)
I’m on a photo book diet right now but that one is getting added to the wishlist.
David B
the gutter thing can be an issue but ways around it. Using a bit of white space on those images it’s a problem is one or carefully cropping and resizing another.
CP
thats it charles.. looking through it seems the best places in terms of binding seems to be a fold of full sized paper, between the leaves of a section of paper, if you get me..
anyway..
it´s got me stuck into looking through double blind and recollections again, which is no bad thing :ø)
Civi – Thanks – I always enjoy your comments.
charles..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpsINi1scow&feature=related
:ø)
what can you do
when the curtain falls
what will you do
when the curtain falls
you’ll
left, right
David B,
How much to give away? Hard to assess. I am hoping that by giving access to the full .pdf version (still not a final version though) I could convince a publisher by telling him;: “hey, the last time I counted, some 500 people downloaded the thing over the last two months. So there must be some kind of interest”. Maybe this isn’t the way to do it though. I don’t know. But at least I am getting rid of the frustration building up when the work is not being seen.
So, having seen the pdf, would you still buy the final and improved version?
Anton,
Love the preview, if this gets published I’m definitely getting the book. Just curious, may I ask what camera/lens combo you’re using?
John Vink……..
im so impressed…..
looked at your book today with the magnum publisher/representative here in Istanbul..
we/he loved it…….
great great great work…..
big hug
Istanbul…
Nikos’s workshop day 6…
6:02am.. i need to go to sleep at some point…..
but, one last thing…… tonight i entered the twilight zone…
i spent the night in the dark side of the city…
transexuals…transvestites…. crazy folks…deformed personalities….. fights…..
bar fights….love……innocence…..lost innocence.. vampires….cheap…..music…….
disco balls…horrible smells…..turkish toilettes…… drugs… cheap drugs……..
pain…… love……hate…….prostitutes….. it was a long walk on the wild side…….
and i wasnt alone…..not at all….. that was the best part…..
biggest hug…
ps: i do have some good news..but i will leave it for later..
peace
for those having a book up their sleeves.. gotta be american though:
http://cds.aas.duke.edu/bp/index.html
CT
digital nikon and a 50mm and 28mm lens… and a small point-and-shoot panasonic
am in the process of switching over now
cheers
a
hey Michael,
obvioulsy it’s not that kind of “japanese” that i’m talking about :-D that woud be indeed a bit cynical :-)
Charles,
thanks for the description and the specifics, will look into it!
thanks both for providing details, will look into it…
a
Anton ..:)
great work..
but what do u mean “in the process of switching over”???
panos: as always… i’m trying new things… rangefinder, point and shoot, video… all very exciting stuff
hugs
john V
absolutely.. i think people will still buy the book.
there isn´t a comparison to looking at something on screen .. the pixels get us before we can really enjoy the depth of an image..
the feeling of holding a book.. high quality paper .. spending time with the photos as objects and having the excitement and awe of wanting to climb into them..
i´ve never had that with looking on the web, nor even work in most magazines, no matter how good the work.
seeing photos on screen is like fast food to me – it fills a hole briefly, yet there is in no way the same level of sustenance gained from a full meal.
it is interesting you mention the frustration of not getting the work seen..
the temptation is to spread too thinly perhaps – something i am maybe guilty of..
it is a constant guessing game.. and i really don´t like second guessing myself.. quick decisions are preferable..
it is great that you have got the work out there.. it´s inspiring and encouraging.. i think you have the weight of reputation to be able to do that and still gain publishers interest – perhaps more so than others on here..
editing 9 or 10 years worth of work is daunting and what i am realizing now is that for all the 6×4 prints i have scattered, the slideshows i have on my computer and the intention i have for the book – the REAL editing may only be done when the first dummy book is in hand.. then, perhaps 2 dummy books later, there will be something to show a publisher.
crystallizing the idea of the work after such a long chunk of life and so many tributaries traveled needs sound council from trusted people who understand and the only way to do that is to show something.
the generosity of spirit you exhibit in releasing your first dummy edit has been as encouraging as seeing chris bickfords book proposal website and antons dummy.. all releasing different amounts of the work, yet all causing some electricity around your projects.. i´m at a stage, as with anton, of carefully thinking how to get the most out of the work and get the message of the work into the right hands.. that guessing game continues as my blog about making the book well and truely stalls…
:ø)
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpwastedbook/ is my effort to get the thing into the first stages of reality
have you seen a final copy of the 60 page magazine spread as yet?
Charles, I’m on to that book too. See also
http://www.japanexposures.com
They also show what film cameras people are carrying on the street. There is a big film fan base in Japan apparently.
Anton, you say you are in the process of switching over: from film to digital or DSLR to digital compact?
Personally I’d love to see (and do) a book made with digital compacts. I tried a Canon G10 a while ago and, although I eventually gave it to my son, I can’t seem to shake the idea of using one again; possibly a Ricoh GRD3.
I had so much fun with that G10 and became invisible – not a bad thing here in the u.k. where a street photographer is akin to terrorist or paedophile!
Mike.
hmm…
i think antons gonna go all L-L-L-Leica on us.
anton,
if you’re going to foto gregor, please tell me.
we could go for a coffee, then.
down with flu or something for a day…crazy busy this weekend…back here by monday or tuesday with a new diaglogue post…i too wish i could show you what i am doing…M9 i love you mostly, but where oh where or when oh when is the faster firmware coming?
if he does Id put my money on it being an M9 rather than a 6 or 7.
I really really want an S2 though…..anybody want to lend me £30,000 :)
…….or if anyone from Leica is out there..I promise I wont break it too much if you lend me one (or two) :)))) Pretty Please!
Ah well, dream on.
john
DAH “where oh where or when oh when is the faster firmware coming?” – we are talking Leica here. The M9 shouldn’t need a firmware fix for the write speed; LEICA should have tested the camera BEFORE releasing it. Same with the X1: customers are reporting issues (dials too loose, focussing too slow etc.) after a few hours with the camera. Not good enough leica!
Rant over,
Mike.
hmm…
coming into rangefinders it would have to be the m9 ..
it is a lot of money – comparatively though, i think my fathers london taxi was a great deal more expensive, and his daily earning potential was much less.
:ø)
DAH:
You proabably don’t but just in case: don’t use RAW and JPG. Just use the RAW. And THINK film. You’ll see the M9/M8-2 is blazing fast that way. Remember when you had to see that incredible situation unfolding in front of you when you were in the middle of changing a roll of film, M6 in one hand, film in the other, new film between your teeth and that stupid bottom end dropping in the mud?
David B
here is another dummy (yearning for a publisher) for grabs (32Mb):
http://johnvink.com/Advocacy/KRTrial7.pdf
Not as strong I think, or at least a very different story. Terrible working conditions though.
¨The M9 shouldn’t need a firmware fix for the write speed; LEICA should have tested the camera BEFORE releasing it.¨
mike – it really has baffled me the way leica seems to have stumbled into the digital age.. i don´t know about the raw file characteristics for the m9, yet the m8 only rated as good as some DSLRs from years before it´s release..
David B
The 60 page publication has been laid out and sent to the the (mysterious, and surprising) country where it will be published.
My turn to tease…
haha – tantalizing john.
good luck with it..
downloading the trial book now.. thanks muchly.
David B
The files of the M8-2 are good. Not fantastic but much more than good enough. They make you adjust your way of working just like an M4 or an M6 were doing if you came from a DSLR. The good side is that you get to work the same way as you, or at least I and I believe DAH, were working for the last 35 years: with a rangefinder. And the M8/9 looks much nicer with the scarf…
Funny that this thread would end (David is going to start a new diaglogue (sic) post) where it started: with book dummy talk…
i think talking about books is one of the most interesting subjects on here, (apart from silk white scarfs – TALLY-HOE n all that)
it seems a valid evolution since there seems to be a synergy right now where most of us are gathering momentum for a book.
i´m hoping that the pitching is much like pitching for magazine pieces on spec.. lots of leg work.. lots of rejection.. and then a light.
the editing has felt like editing for a magazine – albeit in a more overwhelming volume.
I think blurb dummys is a good idea. Although I did one a few years back and canned it as soon as it arrived as the print quality was horendous.
http://www.blurb.com/books/379366/pages/2/ ….looked reasonably good online too(printed version sucked)
Apparently they are so much better now, may well try out a couple more. How to find a publisher though, thats a problem.
Japanese Photobooks of the 1960s and 70s ISBN 978-1597110945.
Gene Smith’s Pittsburgh ISBN 978-0-393-32512-6.
I’m on to both of these.
David Bowen, me too, I’m really pissed off with Leica; so much so that, instead of buying an M9 I bought an … MP! For me, the MP is as big as I want to go. Another rant: what is the most popular colour for a camera? Answer: black. What colour is the Leica X1? Answer: grey. Go figure.
Mike.
david b, john, mike, thomas
i guess the main thing that counts for me is: i had a significantly higher ratio of good images in the bag to take home this time…. even though still learning… i’m not much of a tech person (oddly enough)
we’ll see how it keeps up, but that, for me, is a step forward… fingers crossed
cheers
a
ps JOHN V i want a white silk scarf with a red BURN dot
I wish I could complain for m9 or m8.2 :)
if someone is not satisfy from his m9 or m8 I could find a nice home for…lol
but no time for shooting right now anyway.
DAVID
I finished a story we talked about a some time ago. Will wait when you will have a free time and I send you link.
Enjoy Rio.
mike..
i´ve played with the 8.2 and the mp and much preferred the idea of an mp n film, (dependent on a good lab nearby)
really though, i´m still an slr boy for practical reasons.. i don´t have a silk scarf although plenty of red dots (psoriasis)
ANTON
you´re learning curve, with shooting.. your site.. marketing.. it´s been quite staggering.. very, very steep from where i sit.
sugar was excellent in conception and execution – this latest work is on another level though..
even trips you have mentioned where the shooting has gone less than well have provided some gems – it´s brilliant that this last trip seems to have been a watershed in both quality and your relationship with the subjects.. a real step up.
trouble is, will you have to postpone the book for another year – with new potential and images abound?
david b,
learning curve is long and hard and i feel it every day… and DAH looking over my shoulder i want to make him proud..
i’ve felt very fortunate to meet him, learn from him, and our growing friendship (hey, we’re both bald and gemini)… i consider him my mentor and even though we are doing and talking and breathing BURN 110% of our times, i study and listen and learn between the lines… as there lies his true wisdom
cheers mate
a
test from Istanbul
Michael – ICP’s library is great – there are often TA positions available which give access to darkrooms too…
8.8…hmmm…this is not a camera…Sorry, to interrupt BUT …Huge quake hits Chile; tsunami threatens Pacific…May the spirits of Life …be with you. Red Cross is ready…set…go !!!
As ANTON wrote…”i study and listen and learn between the lines… as there lies his true wisdom”
yeap…I have the same feeling…somewhere there lies the true wisdom…some red wine might help too …
Where are the BURN ladies???
P.S MR.HARVEY …maybe some BBQ from POMARA or some fried scorpions from MR.VINK or some mousaka from the civilian can make you feel better… what not to BURN ???
FROSTFROG…please don’t let the icebergs melt…keep BURNING BUT BURN cool…
We believe in you..
ALL,
Off to Hawaii (Kauai) this afternoon with the family. Hopefully we’ll have a place to stay once we get there (the cottage we rented is 30 feet from the beach). Terrible what has happened to Chile. Mother Earth is playing havoc – not much to do except respect her.
Okay catch up in a week, maybe on a new dialogue.
Get better DAH. You’ve got work to do. :)
CP
BTW: I might have a nice black M8 with upgraded framelines and shutter (essentially an 8.2) to sell. Will decide on price and terms. If anyone is interested contact me when I return. Best deal for Burners before I post on gearhead forums and ebay.
I’d Leica M92, (pun over) at the moment I will settle for electricity, as well as heat, hot water, a working toilet, and a way to get my car out of a snowbank that didnt court having a heart attack. Our happy little burg is under several feet of snow at the moment and no one seems to have any idea when anything is going to get turned back on. The cable is back, though, as is the electricity on Main Street, an excellent thing as it permits me to whine about my lot on the Net. I realize that Boy Scouts get merit badges for camping out in the cold and wet, but I am way too old for that sort of thing, and frankly I never expected to camp out in the wild inside my own home. On the other hand, given that it is colder in the house than it is in the refrigerator, I can leave the milk on the table all night long, content in the knowledge that it won’t go bad during the night.
“Off to Hawaii (Kauai) this afternoon with the family. Hopefully we’ll have a place to stay once we get there (the cottage we rented is 30 feet from the beach).”
You’re saying that to taunt me, arent you?
Akaky – I suspect some folks in the path of the tsunami in hawaii would rather have no electricity that submerged homes. Supposed to hit there about 4pm eastern today….
Head for high ground if you’re there!
Anton; “ps JOHN V i want a white silk scarf with a red BURN dot”
You’ll look like you’re wearing the Japanese flag too!!!
We have tsunami alerts here too, so far nothing. I’m sure there’ll be a bit of nervousness in Samoa though after their last big one…
DAH,
Last week when I brought up the subject of “coming down” off a great trip you didn’t have much to say.
Now I see again you have tweeted about “mood swings, post carnival depression.”
I’m suffering from it, you’re suffering from it.
Seems like a common condition that photographers have to deal with, something that I’ve never seen discussed.
I think it deserves a few more words from you…how about it?
Cathy so do tourists…………… or after partying hard for 3 days that sat down and stared having mood swings, the partying went into action again.
While some are busy designing books, I’m busy designing my blog:
http://bjartebjartebjarte.blogspot.com/
Thoughts about the header?
The good side is that you get to work the same way as you, or at least I and I believe DAH, were working for the last 35 years: with a rangefinder.
——————————————————————————–
if someone is not satisfy from his m9 or m8 I could find a nice home for…lol
——————————————————————————–
Just use the RAW. And THINK film. You’ll see …. is blazing fast that way.
——————————————————————————–
WHATS NOT TO AGREE????
Rangefinder is the ONLY way to be…
biggest hug from Istanbul…
Students are happy..workshop is over…its so hard to say goodbye…
even more amazing is that the istanbul leica guy fixed my broken carl zeiss 28mm for only 30 Euros..
Yes..only 30 euros… thanks to Nikos… and big thanks to Hasan ( magnum representative in istanbul )
that took my lens and personally run to the leica guy and fixed it..he had my lens ready within 3 hours..
Amazing..and all that for only 30E…
i still cant believe it… i also have some great news to share but i dont wanna jinx it.. i will have to wait a few days to make sure its official…
12:08am Istanbul..tomorrow at 3pm flying with Nikos back to grecolandia..
peace out
Panos, Nikos, have a safe trip home.
Big Hug
Panos; “Rangefinder is the ONLY way to be…”
Only problem is that an M9 costs $9,900 here. Hell, even a D700 costs $4,699! And, our dollar is sitting pretty high (for a change) compared to the greenback at the moment too.
:-)
I’m with Ross. All this talk of M9s and Nikon D700s is a bit rich for my taste. Still using my Canon 40D with no complaints.
Speaking of which, today I finished shooting my gay couple essay and will be heading home on Monday. Phil (half of the couple) took tonight’s redeye to NYC for business so I ended up with 14 days of shooting. Doesn’t sound like enough time on the face of it, but since I was staying with them I was able to shoot from early morning till late at night. Total immersion is an amazing way to go…both energizing and exhausting. And I loved every minute. Thank god I managed to keep up with my preliminary edits as I went along so I won’t feel overwhelmed when I get home.
When I look at my possible keepers, I feel satisfied that I’ve done as well as I possibly could. Now whether that will measure up in other people’s eyes, I don’t know. I’m way too close to it to see with any objectivity. That’s where time will come in. But it has truly been a remarkable journey…
Patricia
Patricia;
14 days on end shooting? Wow, that’s a luxury! I’m lucky if I can scramble a couple of days of consecutive shooting for myself at the moment!! :-)
I’m aiming to get about 5 days shooting in soon hopefully! Good on you, can’t wait to see the work.
Cheers
Rangefinder is the ONLY way to be…
I assume this is intentional overstatment. There is no only way to be.
Ross..Patricia…
i never said M9… i only said rangefinder,,,…
it could also be epson or contax or a future nikon or canon or zeiss ikon…
yes . rangefinder is the best way …but again i never said M9 or even leica…
big hug..packing up to go…
:)
Frost..:))) for me yes..but i also love point & shoot and definitely the iphone…and lately from slr the compact Olympus 420 (smallest in the market)
so do tourists…………… or after partying hard for 3 days that sat down and stared having mood swings, the partying went into action again
——————————————
laughing……the only mood swings i get is when i see that skinny wallet…
i loved istanbul but i cant wait to get out of here…
;)
14 days on end shooting? Wow, that’s a luxury!
—————————————————
Ross…yes..exactly…photography time is a luxury that only the rich can afford like HCB for example ,
OR the homeless….laughing
big hug
Thomas B…thank you…
3…2…1… gone
Panos; “i never said M9… i only said rangefinder,,,…”
Well i did put a smiley after it! :-))
Panos; Well I did have a rangefinder for a while; it was an old Yashica Electro. Quite a nifty cam it was too! :-)
PATRICIA my dear…
so you finished shooting the gay couple?
i’ve be silently following your accounts here and i must say i am REALLY curious to the outcome… it all looks really promising and i have faith that if anyone could pull it off it would be YOU…
in regards to “rich” i must confess… i am not rich at all; yet i do buy pro/expensive equipement because i carefully relate costs, work efficiency and income…
e.g. if a Nikon D3 would allow me to “win” 30 minutes every paid working day with things like good image ratio, transfer to computer, shooting setup, shooting itself, camera maintenance, battery life, and such, then after only 3 months i have already recuperated the cost of the camera body… and after those three months i am even making “profit” on having the D3, and so i can even start saving money… it seems like an illogical calculation; seemingly minute daily gains in efficiency, are HUGE in the long run…. the caveat obviously being that i have to keep on finding paid jobs :-/
many many BIG HUGS to you…. it seems like a long time since we’ve danced together at a party :-) when’s the next one???
a
CATHY…
the mood swing i recently referred to on Twitter belonged to the Cariocas post carnaval attitude, not my own….i was personally very ready for carnaval to be over…
hmmm, i thought we did discuss “post excitement syndrome” a bit…in any case, i am sure you can appreciate my time constraints now……please remind me when i am back home in a couple of weeks and i will be pleased to discuss ..when i am sitting around bored….
cheers, david
THOMAS
when in Köln, we will definitely go for coffee… that’s a promise :-)
Patricia. Looking forward to seeing your edit. I wonder if any new angles have become apparent as you have worked through this?
Has your treatment of the subject altered as you progressed through this?
Did you get the story you thought you were getting, or was/is there another story waiting to be found?
JOHN
Anton
“e.g. if a Nikon D3 would allow me to “win” 30 minutes every paid working day with things like good image ratio, transfer to computer, shooting setup, shooting itself, camera maintenance, battery life, and such, then after only 3 months i have already recuperated the cost of the camera body…”
You make sense Anton (all the time). Now I wanna go buy a D3 with a good conscience.
Meanwhile stuck with my D300s, which ain’t so bad either…
Bjarte: re your blog: I’m not very fond of the BIG header.. but that’s a personal preference, don’t like heavy headers, fonts, names on sites in general…
Eva
Thanks for your opinion. I’m happy about the size of the header, but you made me considering making the text smaller.
1 – Immerse yourself in your hometown culture/become a tourist in your own town
2 – Take shorter trips closer to home
3 – Write about your trip
4 – Start planning your next adventure
5 – Remember that everyday life is what makes travel so invigorating
6 – Eat your favorite foods from your trip
7- Be a BURNIAN and Submit
8-Share your experience and start working …on your editing skills…
Wish you ALLLL…safe travels and may the post travel depression …be good with you !!!
BURN
P.S the above has been copied and pasted…aha…I am your Civilian
Civi
I like your philosophy. Exploring my home town is great fun and something that I’ve recently started doing by visiting neighbours and photographing family portraits they’ve got hanging on their walls. So yes, I will continue doing it, and from June 1st I will spend 100% of my time on photography. Tomorrow it will only be three more months. It’s great.
BJARTE…
header looks unfinished…too much white for my old eyes…BUT…it’s you and it’s personal…
and I love …Personal !!! what do I know …I am a civilian :)))
June 1st…I will follow …close and personal.
Anton;
Yes I see where you’re coming from. At night my D300 is clearly better than my D200, but not during day/good light. I had to shoot at 3200asa the other night with the D300 (at about 3am on the street) and yes; after looking at the files the next day I wished I had a D700! :-)
A D3 costs $8,350 dollars here, which means I would practically have to find an extra 16 grand worth of articles/images to justify the expense! Not easy in a recession when you live hand to mouth most months!
For my magazine article work the D200 and 300 do just fine as it is mostly day work. I may pick up a D700 for my own work (low light), but will probably have to get a parallel import or lightly used model. But I will sell the D300 and a 20mm lens to fund it (I won’t need the 20mm with full frame.
Lately I’ve gone back to using the D200 more often (it’s been my hardly used back-up after getting the D300) for day work and slow flash night stuff to save thrashing the D300 so much. It has actually reminded me how good it still is!
We are so lucky to have such good gear available now! My gear talk now over… :-)
Cheers
ROSSY,
your gear talk never ends…as long as you have a BURNIAN soul…
Where are you my BURNIANS …I need you to check in…I am here and there …waiting…!!!
LOVE …Dance …the Journey of your photo Souls…!!!
Whatever goes Up…goes down…and Up again !!!
nannanaaaaaaaaaa…opa…….naaaaaaaaaaapa…opa,opa,opa
Here you go Civi; some of my latest “kids stuff” Hopefully the link will work. It’s 7am here, been stuck behind the laptop since 5am, damn deadlines…. :-)
http://www.photoshelter.com/gallery/The-Kids-Are-Alright-Birthday/G0000hRZZtifLsrM/
ross,
yes of course, the assumption is that you have to have a steady turnover… of course, if i would have only 1 assignment, or if i wouldn’t have enough assignments to be able to save the time i calculated i need to in the first place, it would be completely useless to buy a D3. the key is in the repetition of efficiency.
BUT… not landing enough assignments is a completely different problem… if that is the problem, then of course: no point buying a D3
ALSO please note that i am not talking about the “image quality” as such, like you state differences between d200/d300/d700… i’m not doing a tech talk at all….
…i’m talking about improving efficiency in getting the job done quicker (with the same quality) thus saving time thus saving money. this could have to do with image quality, in the sense that a good image needs less of your attention (read: time) or “repair” in processing, but other than that, the image quality of any decent digital is way more than good enough… it that sense you are totally right:
we are so lucky to have such good quality gear available nowadays…
cheers,
anton
Anton;
Totally agree with you. I hope you don’t think I was having a dig at you; not my intention at all :-)
“not landing enough assignments is a completely different problem”
A lot of the problem here in NZ is not that there isn’t any work available; it’s just that when you primarily shoot/write editorial work; the mags are tending to put the squeeze freelancers. This is mostly due to their advertising revenue drying up in the recession; with last June/July/August being the worst months.
Things are slowly getting back on an even keel now though. I’m quite fortunate in having a reasonable amount of work out ahead again now; mostly articles, actual day-rate photography has practically dried up.
I’m changing my strategy to concentrate more time selling and re-selling articles to overseas publications. Gotta make use of NZ’s crappy exchange rate with the UK etc! :-)
Cheers
JOHN
What good questions. I’m not sure I can give adequate answers since I’m still so close to the picture-taking part of the process, but what comes to mind is the realization that as the days and nights wore on I became less focused on simply trying to show Phil and Scott’s day-to-day lives and more absorbed with the idea of showing who they are as individuals and as a couple. In other words, their BEING became more important than their DOING. Does that make sense? I began to find abstractions in the concrete. Not a lot but at least some. If I were to continue taking photos, I’m sure more abstracted mood-setting images would come.
But, to be honest, we have all had enough of this for now. The fellows were unbelievably tolerant and patient as my camera was in their faces for two weeks. I doubt if I could have stood it myself. The only closed doors I encountered was when they were using the toilet. Everything else was fair game. Amazing.
Regarding your question, “is there another story waiting to be told?,” I’m sure there is. But I captured the story as I saw it, and yes, it was pretty much what I expected. I’ve been close friends of Scott and Phil for 16 years. When I used to spend winters subletting by myself in San Francisco (1996-2002), the fellows were like family to me. I’ve also made a number of two-week stays with them over the years, so we know one another very well indeed. This project couldn’t have happened without the level of trust that we’d already developed. What I discovered this time is that they are even more exceptionally kind and giving than I realized. Really remarkable human beings.
By the way, we’ve been trying out possible titles for the entire two weeks that I’ve been here. On Friday night, that paid off. Friends were over for dinner and Scott was laughing about how I’d answered DAH’s question about what set this gay couple apart by saying, “Nothing. Theey are just like everyone else and that’s the point.” There friend Doug said, “So they’re just another married couple.” Phil responded, “That’s IT! The title of the project: Just Another Married Couple.” Couldn’t be more perfect. It says EXACTLY what I want to communicate. With the cover photo of Phil and Scott, we won’ even need a subtitle.
I have so appreciated the support and interest of you Burnians during this process. Helped me feel ready to do what needed to be done. I hope it will speak to you when you see it.
Patricia
Patricia; Re; “Just Another Married Couple”
Don’t you just love it when those little pieces of inspiration suddenly appear when you least expect it?
:-)
a few personal thoughts about d200
I am in half happy owner d200 (nice cam) but all I need right now is full frame.
My quote about gear is: “your camera will not help you taking good pictures but should not disturb you” :)
all I need is 35mm lens with 35mm depth of field not 24.
d200 is nice 5d is nicer :)
and e450 is nice because is small (why not ff?? lol)
d3 is sooo big!
ANTON
Your reflections on camera gear make sense. I can certainly see for someone like you that efficiency and less time spent in the process would be essential.
Yes, we need to dance!!!
xxooo
Patricia
ross
sounds like tough times… but the way you describe it seems to me like you have the strategy down to turn things to your advantage… very cool.
cheers!
a
Panos – Maybe I will check out the Olympus. I love the performance of my big Canons, but, perhaps in part because I have a titanium right shoulder now (probably because when I fell I wrapped my arms around my Ds-III and pulled it close to my chest to protect it and took the full blow with my shoulder – how stupid was that?) I can hardly stand to carry them around anymore.
And they are so noisy and draw so much attention to a photographer.
Frost…:)
for sports/fashion/event-wedding photogs the Ds-III or D3 are best choices …
now for street or art nothing beats a rangefinder ..as a medium format is great for nature and portraits…
I second john vink…a rangefinder is blazing fast if u know how to use it…no need to shoot 10 frames per second…not at all…that was my last 2TL (turkish liras) for the day…
Anyway…1:17am ..greetings and good night from Athens grecolandia…
highlight of the return trip..the aeroplane food..if u want some relatively good food try flying with the
Aegean airlines…surprisingly good food….
big hug
Invitation:
I have a show going up in Nantucket and will be making a slide presentation March 27 in the afternoon, should anybody be nearby.
I will be doing a repeat performance of the slide show in New York on April 1 at the Alaska House, http://www.alaskahouseny.org/.
The show is title Gift of the Whale (from my book of the same title) and covers the Iñupiat bowhead whale hunt and related way of life. As the day draws near, I will drop in a couple more reminders.
DAH: If you are in NYC at that time, I would welcome the chance to meet you.
DAH,
Looking forward to hearing more when you are “sitting around bored” :)) love that.
CIVI,
Love your “things to do at home” list!!! Sweet! :))
IMANTS,
Yes of course.
Civi, Civi, Civi,
Checking in my friend. So much to say, so little time.
food, wine and beer, yes I know red is best for the
heart, I’ll get there but tonight it’s time for regional
adventure: A Beef on Weck. http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Sandwiches/BeefOnWeck.htm
JOHN VINK..
i have been shooting raw and jpeg basic simultaneous with the M9…will try simply raw and see how that goes…oh yes, of course i remember (not very long ago) having to take a full minute out to change film every 36 frames..i learned how to pace the shooting based on that necessity and i am learning to pace accordingly with the M9…and i am not what i consider to be a rapid fire shooter at all..i never was a motor drive photographer…however, there are some times when i am simply going for nuance in a situation…the scenario is deliberate and i could shoot it with a Mamiya VII in terms of speed, but the little subtleties i can tweak because i do have an M are just not possible sometimes because of the slow processing….mostly there is no problem…but, i have been caught “red handed” a few times…it just seems like an unnecessary handicap..however, overall, this is the ONE…. thanks for the tip…
cheers, david
DAVID. The other alternative is to just shoot JPEG. Sounds counter-intuitive at first, but for someone who has such good control and understanding of exposure such as yourself, the end files are likely to have all the information you need. Just imagine you are shooting chromes….gotta nail that exposure. The M will then go like an express train.
There is a lot of pressure to shoot RAW (and for good reason sometimes) as it does give us a ‘negative’ to work from. But I find a lot of people shoot them because they think they should and then do very little with them except make copies from them. So, if your exposure control is good, and you are not going to push and pull your RAW all over the place, jpeg can work just fine. There is still loads of lattitude in a jpeg to do tonal/saturation adjustments.
Give it a test run maybe, see how it flies.
JOHN
the problem with a j-peg, apart from info loss on original compression, is that it deteriorates every time it is opened and saved in photshp or similar..
it can be copied without deterioration, yet working from and keeping a base raw file seems more secure.
John, this is too true, when you are used to shooting positive, there is often little adjustment needed in the post production stage. When i first switched to digi, I was shooting a series of windsurfing action shots from in the water with an underwater housing on a D70, the only way to get the action was with a fast frame rate, which in turn was only possible shooting Jpeg. Thankfully as my background was shooting tranny I managed to get most shots spot on (the pics were eventually blown up and used on huge exhibition stands). Even now the only major changes in post i use are are for stylistic, but it is reassuring to know you have the extra latitude if you need it.
cheers
Ian
Mr Bowen. For sure. But you can easily make a jpeg into an archival 16bit TIFF. You gain nothing, but you lose nothing either.
For sure, if you have a fast enough camera there is no reason not to shoot RAW as all you have is one more step in post to worry about. BUT..lots of people shoot them and then have no real idea why they do. If you are not a ‘fiddler’ of images by nature, there really is very little reason to ‘use’ a RAW. It just becomes a redundant archive once the master TIFF has been made from it.
John G.
You can get a 16Bit Tiff from a Jpg but it’ll be from a deteriorated jpg.
Consider the RAW as a negative, and the jpg’s, Tif’s etc as prints.
No redundancy there. And anyhow being redundant in the digital age is not a bad idea. Hard disks crash…
I was shooting jpg for a year or so when I started going digital nine years ago. And I regret it…
John Vink. The deterioration comes from compression. Converting a new jpeg to TIFF loses nothing as you are not re-compressing anything. personally I shoot my own ‘stuff’ on RAW but most other work is jpeg converted to 16bit TIFF. You cannot tell the difference in a print of most any size, unless you really need to push the tones around massively.
“Consider the RAW as a negative”…I do, RAW converters are my digi darkrooms and i spend way too much time in them, as much as in the wet darkroom really. And I use them the same way, for grading, spotting, tone placement…etc. Also for experimentation. The real beauty of a RAW file is how far you can stretch it before it breaks, how you can apply radical curves without banding issues….but, most people dont do this with their work. They tweak a little(or hit auto) and then make a TIFF.
the real issue is not RAW vs JPEG, its 8bit vs 16bit.
dpr
John G
” The deterioration comes from compression. Converting a new jpeg to TIFF loses nothing as you are not re-compressing anything. ”
True, but the JPG you convert to Tiff was compressed already from the RAW.
John V. True. But the case still stands. Get it right in camera and whatever comes out is right. Get it wrong and its wrong whatever format it was shot on. The main case for RAW for traditional shooters is the ability to reclaim a bit of blown highlight detail(or if really desperate pull a bit of shadow detail back), and in that respect it wins over jpeg hands down. So we get lazy knowing we can ‘repair’ to a certain extent errors while shooting. A well exposed ‘jpeg to tiff conversion’ should already be right where its meant to be…and as far as the original point was made(the M9’s small buffer)..it will be much faster……Just like shooting velvia (or Kodachrome for you older folks :) )
John
“Converting a new jpeg to TIFF loses nothing as you are not re-compressing anything.”
But eventually you will probably want to make that tiff over to jpeg again after working with it in photoshop. So when you arrive at that stage you have compressed your final file two times in the process, compared to only one time if you had shot it in raw, made it to tiff and then to a final jpeg.
David B
“the problem with a j-peg, apart from info loss on original compression, is that it deteriorates every time it is opened and saved in photshp or similar..”
What if you save a jpeg from a jpeg using compression quality 12? I’m just thinking since it’s the maximum quality you can make, then maybe you don’t lose anything? (I’ve been wondering about this for a while.)
I agree John V. It took about a year for me to “get” shooting RAW.
I process all of my work through Lightroom, so even if I were to shoot
JPG the original file remains unchanged.
Yes, there is life after PS.
Bjarte. It only loses quality (after the first save) if adjustments are made, or if you alter the compression. If you open and close the same jpeg ten times at the same compression, without making any changes, the quality change will be negligable, and certainly NOT something you could spot in a print.
Seeing as how you would always want to print from a 300dpi TIFF, and you would certainly want to archive at that resolution, the only real time you are re-compressing to jpeg is for online use, in which case you are compressing so much (and resizing) that the effect of an extra step is to all intents invisible anyways.
I think John was suggesting a potential emergency workaround for camera buffer speed increase. High quality jpeg is certainly an option to be able to do this, if you are competent at getting the exposure right and don’t have to do too much post prod.
It makes sense, John. But I guess I prefer feeling 100% safe with the raw -> tiff -> jpeg (if needed) process. Then I can go back to the raw file if I need it, which gives me more options. And having more options can’t be a bad thing unless it leads to lazyness with exposures over time, like you said.
Being aware of it all is the most important, I think.
Aitken. that is indeed how this started.
john :ø)
i get it..
what a shame to even have to consider j-peg for a 2009 released camera..
like my dad buying a nice plush new taxi and having to pull it around because the engine is too slow.
hope to catch you this summer somewhere.. have you a plan for your couple of months wanderings as yet?
room in bergen for you..
d
David B. Thats a nice offer. Have four docu edits to finish by end of march, and then thats me free. Have no idea where I will end up yet, will probably decide a couple weeks before I go. I am thinking heat though, at least for part of it. Also I have an issue with travelling with lots of meds, so some countries are trickier than others. I do have this weird idea(one of many) of a european road trip. Get an old beaten up land rover, whole bunch of film and powdered devving chemicals…and just hit the road. Theoretically could even hit greece/turkey etc. That might be fun.
John…it seems that we will meet at some point..:)
biggest hug
(yes plz bring meds with u..:)
Panos. You are about a decade too late for those type of meds :) and you really wouldnt like the ones I need. trust me on that one.
But yeah, maybe..Drive through greece into turkey…up into the mountains with the kurds…across the plains to Ayfon.
j
sounds good john..
the ice age has begun in norway, although the summers are hot hot hot…
the driving idea is a good one..
i had a friend, sadly dead now, who drove from the south of canada to the southern most point of south america.. a woman had pissed him off and it took the trip to cool him down :ø)
furthest i have made was southern most point of hungry in 92.. then turned back up to poland / russia border due to the balkens war..
was trying to istanbul but had so much trouble with border police throughout eastern europe.. didn´t make it that time.
anyway – room offer stand and at the moment gatwick flights are only 60 quid return.
d
Dear Professor,
That’s was funny.
:)
Dear Professor,
That’s was funny.
:-)
john Gee….
belgium is not the most attractive place on the outside… but you can count on always having a place to stay here.
As I live with some major spinal issues, camera size and weight have always been a concern.
Cameras have grown stupidly large it seems. I use full frame 5d and 1ds cameras for work and love the look of full frame, but carry a Rebel for personal work just because of the weight and size. Here is a 5d beside an old Pentax film camera. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/117686412 A 1ds is as bigger and heavier than a Hassselblad.
Lenses too, my old m-series pentax lenses were tiny, as were the old olympus OM series. I’d love to see a return to some sanity here.
Anton. Ditto dude.
Gordon. I think the way point and shoots are progressing it wont be long before your wish is granted.
Focus control and shutter lag/buffer size are the only real obstacles now. Image quality is already well up there. Once these problems are solved, P&S as main camera becomes viable.
Gotta dis-agree with you here John G. “A well exposed ‘jpeg to tiff conversion’ should already be right where its meant to be”
While some jpgs from some cameras can be pretty good, a RAW conversion will always have a greater dynamic range and higher resolution. Then of course there is the almost infinite ability to tweak colour balance etc etc. Some cameras JPGs are better than others, my old 1ds makes lovely jpgs, but I absolutely hate the ones from my 5dmk11, smeary plasticky horrid things. I LOVE the control I have over files in RAW.
hey…don’t forget your Greek home…I know …Greece has lost the credibility BUT in your home
as long as I will be around…you will always have red wine,ouzo,mousaka,homemade bread and…
magnetic wall
Spirit is Up…
Gordon. Fair enough. This is a jpeg I just made with the 5dmk2.(large jpeg only)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2761/4398923864_666db413b0_o.jpg
hard lighting, crappy lens, 800 asa, auto WB…pretty much full idiot mode. No work whatsoever in PS, just made into a 16bit file and then remade into a web jpeg(tiny-only 1000 pixels long side). The original will print at 20 inches long side and be pretty dammed good. As its a 16bit file it will also take quite a bit of pushing/pulling (which a file such as this would need).
I agree that not all files are created equal, the nikon jpeg is (imo)superior to the canon, but they can ALL make good work.
nice portrait john.. ;)
panos. Put your glasses back on dude :)
For the dinosaurs out there still using film, perhaps you’re interested in signing this petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/TX400220/
And feel free to pass the link along, thanks!
YouTube is banned in turkey (along with all porn sites)…
i had a rough time in Istanbul at nights…laughing
Forget the camera and file format talk. Do yourselves a favor and watch Ira Block and DAH, professor of bagology, in their quest for a perfect bag —
http://www.picturestoryblog.com/2010/03/david-alan-harvey-bag-world-video-and-camera-bag-give-a-way.html
man you really need to witness Davids bag thing first hand. He really is WAY serious about it.
But he has to tote those things a long long way, and while he claims to be dis-organized in a lot of ways you can bet your life that his camera bag has its shit together tight. But but….that bag cupboard man, you gotta see it to believe it.:)
I am now the proud owner of that black Domke bag after my stay at the kibbutz. As im sure many of you are too.
Customized now of course :)
john
PRESTON! :))))))))))))))))))))))))))
that is tOOOOOO fucking hilarious :)))))…david’s got to write a book: ‘zen and the art of photo bag maintenance” :)))))
John G: :)))))) i HAVE seen Davi’s bag closet….for life of me, i have no idea, how i didnt snag anything….but next time for sure!!!…it’s one of the 7 (8?) Wonders of the Modern World…that garage too….
DAVID (AH):..:))))))))))….good god are we alike…i mean, i got frickin developed rolls of trix all over the house and keep finding them, especially when i lament to Marina ‘fuck, i know i have better pictures of that shoot, now what did i do with them’, only to find 2 years later….and can i please please please say to marina, next time i’m in hot water, and i forget something for the family that ‘it’s in harvey’s photo bag’ :)))))))))….that expense report find is fucking priceless! :)))))
running
b
Hi all –
just rcvd this email from Jim Estrin @ NYT Lens blog – go shoot!
*******************************************************************
I thought we would do an experiment . Just for fun. Lens is asking people everywhere, all kinds and sizes to take a photo on Tuesday March 2nd between noon and 1 pm (EST) New York Times and either put it on twitter through twit pic ( tag # lens 1) and tweet us @nytimesphoto.
Tomorrow we can all either go to http://twitpic.com/ and search lens1 or view them or search on twitter #lens1.
I don’t know what will happen . I don’t expect most to be golden but it could be interesting . They’ll have a life on twitter. Who knows, maybe on Lens. Anyway if you think of it take something interesting and send it along .
bag hunt, really funny..this is part of what i love about you david – you made the time to do something like this!
all,
last week Panos told us about his days in Istanbul, where he meet Ara Güler. today i was, here in Lisbon (Portugal), at the opening of his exhibition ‘Lost Istanbul – 50s and 60s’… small world.
Ara Güler didn’t come, because of the sudden death of his wife, but i talked with curator Laura Serani, who said that he is still working hard, mostly on his extraordinary archive, always preparing books and exhibitions.
for a photo of Laura Serani at the exhibition this afternoon, check
http://industrias-culturais.blogspot.com/2010/03/istambul-em-exposicao-no-ccb.html (a friend’s blog).
the exhibition, with prints made by Ara Guler himself, will be open until April 1, and is part of ‘Bridges to Istanbul Festival’, more at
http://www.ccb.pt/sites/ccb/en-EN/Programacao/Exhibitions/Pages/ExposicaoAraGuler.aspx?month=3
um forte abraço para todos,
Carlos Filipe
late to the jpg vs raw discussion….but I do get what John G is saying….however (and for me it’s a big one)….for jpg to work youhave to get it right, including white balance. And of all the “automated” functions, white balance is still not perfect and consistent. Good? yes. nail it every time? Nope, no way.
I shoot raw and convert, but don’t do much beyond making sure the white balance is right and perhaps a little sharpening or color corection. If you end up having to fix white balance in a jpg, that’s going to be a save that is detrimental…
but still a good idea for slower processing cams, when it’s necessary.
DAH, love the bag video. That storage space reminds me of the top shelf in my double-wide closet…..although none of my bags are petrified (at least that I know….yet).
good light, all.
a.
ERICA…
well, a little psychological diversion on a totally mindless pursuit keeps one balanced…or not? too much time in the hot sun? finding that lost expense acct book was no joke…for the pro shrinks in this audience, don’t even go there….
come and get yours my dear….no need to shop at B&H…i have a better selection….and best prices in town….smile nice in the late afternoon light at the kibbutz and the choice is yours to make….
those shootouts are always fun…we have not done one of those here since we did the self portrait bit on Road Trips….remember? i seem to recall nudes of both you and David Bowen (separately of course…this is a family magazine)…ok, shhhhhhhh
BOB…
mail order possible….Marina first of course….
cheers, david
Wow, DAH clearly needs some professonal help from the hoarding specialists.
My worst bag of all time, a custom Hasselblad bag I had to use at my first job at a commercial industrial studio in 1971. This sucker I’m sure was plywood covered with leather (seriously) It must have weighed at least five or six pounds empty. It had two quick release tripod plates built in onto which we mounted two cameras, and custom pockets for multiple lenses and backs. I’ll bet it weighed 20+ pounds loaded up. I used to hump that sucker for hours on my left shoulder, and carry a tilt-all tripod in my right hand. No wonder my back is toast.
GORDON…
yes, finding the right LIGHT bag is the trick…in my world, i pretty much live out of my bag on the street all day long…..always with me, so the thing has got to be perfect….of course the search for “perfect” is why i have so many….
#bag man – a racketeer assigned to collect or distribute pay-off money
IMANTS…
doesn’t seem to be much money headed my way, but i am sure you now can imagine me pretty comfy on Ward 18…
Yea you would be pretty safe, we no longer string necklaces out of broad beans and kidneys here.
http://www.picturestoryblog.com/2010/03/david-alan-harvey-bag-world-video-and-camera-bag-give-a-way.html
ah.. i was late on that one.
morning.
d
Carlos F…:)
yes enjoy Ara’s exhibition…
Ara has an amazing cafe right in the center of Istanbul…Ara Cafe…
it resembles old french cafes from the 30ies…
Its like an illusion..You constantly have the impression that HCB or Capa would pass by…
Huge prints on the walls..its almost as a gallery itself…
photographers, journalists, poets,writers…pretty girls all there..
Ara lives on the apartment on the top of the cafe..of course he comes down for his coffee every morning at 11am…He spends there 2 or 3 hours…He usually meets with Hasan (gallery/IZ magazine/Fotografevi publisher)
to decide the magazine…and talk photography..He examines every little detail before he takes a decision..
Thats the absolute must meeting point..in Istanbul…
biggest hug
(all that on a photo reportage coming soon)
Preston: thanks so much for the link. I was so depressed watching tv breaking news passing earthquake and tsunami reports here in Chile, that for the first time in 3 days I could laugh a little bit. Fortunately enough there is not a massive destruction, considering 8.8 strike. But the tsunami without doubt was the worst part, taking hundreds of lives away. But what depress me more is looking how grocery stores and drug stores are been stealed, dismanteled and even set on fire from local gangs. Where the hell is human compassion??
Regards
Jorge
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=tr&u=http://www.fotografevi.com/&ei=nwSNS53uNoWW_Qbj4pXEAg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CA0Q7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfotografevi%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26rlz%3D1C1GGLS_enUS345US346
IZ Magazine/Fotografevie
24 issue: featuring DAH, Marcus Bleasdale, John Delaney
(click above for the translated version)
click on IZ (marilyn photo), then click Magazine Archive -left)
from the above link
Jorge/Panos:
love LOVE Aga’s work…actually, a turkish student of mine gave me one of his books, and i kept it for 3 months (almost dog-eared) and then he said, ‘um, bob, can i have the book back’….anyway….a great photographer….card players/drinking in istanbul really broke my heart :)))
Panos: big congrats bro, so happy/proud of you :)))))
david (ah): well, u know how much i prefer walking in a bookstore to receiving from amazon, so i will make the pilgrimage again and pic one in person, besides i MUST use that scale to make sure the bag is the proper weight for my getting-older lower vertabrae! :))))))))…besides, we have much to catch up on…time for a rendez vous, later in the year….
running
b
Bob…
thank you..i wasnt really expecting it either…im on the “light” side ..
I’m on honored too..
big hug bro
I just peee myself …thank you PRESTON for the bag video …thank you HARVEY’S…Thank you IRA…
THANK YOU BURNIANS…you made my day…and it’s not the ouzo…
PANOS,
I can offer good turkish coffee and loukoumia…just bring some pretty girls,boys,writers,photophilosophers…
POMARA,
come on…where is your bag??? Thanks for the BBQ …BUT for me…you are A Flying BURNIAN!!!
DAVIDB,
I miss TOR CAPA and BEATE
BOBB,
the same for Dima and MARINA
LASSAL,
i WISH YOU THE BEST …WE LOVE YOU
ROSAV,
you are strong…WE LOVE YOU
JIM POWERS…WE LOVE YOU too!!!
and MRS.KATHLEEN FONSECA… I need a check in …ASAP…I am a civilian …I am gonna find you…
and to all MY BURNIANS…I know I ask a lot BUT I miss you ALL…I hope you are ok and You are all
shooting, networking, publishing,editing…farting …yeap
civi
let’s submit your bag designs …along with your essays…
yeap…Dare to BURN…BAGBURN
BRAVO to all the BURNIANS…
Who are BURNING down the walls and they are “building Bridges “…between countries, cultures,nations…
Thats amore Dean Martin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS6-b7CONDI
THAT’S AMORE…I LOVE U BURNIANS
hi All –
I wanted to share the link to the online portion of my adult home photos in Mother Jones – http://motherjones.com/photoessays/2010/02/surf-manor-adult-homes-coney-island
The tearsheets of the print piece are up on my site at http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com under New York, Surf Manor…
The people I photographed have been fighting since 2003 for the opportunity to live independently, and a ruling issued yesterday (March 1, 2010) by Judge Nicholas G. Garaufis of the Federal District Court in Brooklyn “ordered the state to develop at least 1,500 units of supported housing a year for three years. This ruling follows a September 2009 decision in which a judge ruled that adult homes were by their nature segregation and thus a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.”
So a big victory for them! Though most have been diagnosed with and live with the challenges of mental illness, they want the chance to live richer, fuller lives in their own homes. The ruling provides for supportive care, which most of the residents don’t have in their adult home situations, which simply “warehouse” and segregate the mentally ill.
right on Erica…
bravo
:)
ERICA
YES!!!!!!
Your images give them dignity
and
a voice…..
GREAT color…
with your 4×5?!
**
xw
Also if you can, pick up the physical copy of the March + April 2010 Mother Jones –
Marcus Bleasdale who has The Rape of a Nation here now on burn has a powerful spread in the same issue as the Surf Manor photos, and you can read the full article Blood and treasure, which accompanies Marcus’ important work…
Panos :) Wendy – Rolleiflex!
Wonderful stuff Erica. I’ll keep an eye out for the magazine.
good stuff erica. Lots of gravity in those shots. And a worthy story.
if this all works out I do hope you will be following up on this work. God knows the world really needs a story about the right thing being done, and some people (usually marginalised and forgotten) being given a shot at some kind of life. That would be a nice change.
john
on another note entirely. Going to meet the wife of a very controversial artist/collector/pickler of things tonight to show a bunch of work( music work mainly). On scouring all my prints I have now decided its all shit, and showing it will just be a huge embarassment to everyone. Is it just me that gets like this? Other people going through my work in anything but an informal setting is hugely painful….WTF is that all about?
Like some weird version of stage fright. never gets easier.
Wish me luck
john
DAH
A man of your stature with bag issues surely can’t be without this product :
http://www.bagbalm.ca/english/index.asp
Should resurrect that petrified Filson puppy (2:05 in the clip) in no time :>))
gwan john – will be fine.
it´s much more stomach tightening to show work in person than to just bang a job away by http://ftp.. the right-to-reply in the moment and all that i guess..
once you show some, they say something positive and you crack a gag they´ll not shut you up..
it´s just because you care about the work..
we´re all insecure at some level if we care about what we´re doing..
erica – very well done :ø9
Erica
Love your work :)
John,it always happens, enjoy the ride.any chance the initials of the artist are D H?
Cheers
ian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km1tgDiQsqw
Jeff on the turntables…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckbdLVX736U&feature=related
John Cale
You like John Cale? Here’s a treat. Only been seen by 8 or ten people.
Did you remember to tweet a photo to Estrin?
*************************
thanks guys…John, I know, and am searching my heart to see if I want to continue this as residents move into their homes – it was sort of a long difficult haul, so maybe this would feel lighter…as I get older / shoot more I am realizing the importance (to me, personally) of choosing pieces that are a good fit.
and I wish you luck – I completely relate..i have here in front of me the phone number of one of the world’s most savvy photo collector’s, who invited me to meet with him, and i just can’t, cause I always feel my work isn’t there, though there’s no there there….
Michael…… now you’re talking
;))))))))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xMvw9lCOBw&feature=related
Mark Lanegan – Hit The City
Screaming Trees “All I Know”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgdCzZiPZBU&feature=channel
Mudhoney “This Gift”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc0sfGTuVfs&feature=related
Mudhoney with Kurt Cobain
Erica;
Congratulations; very nice work. It’s nice to see square format for a change too, it works well.
Cheers
John Gladdy
Naw, it’s not you John. It’s just the photographic variation of the “imposter syndrome”. Apparently, even the high and mighty suffer from this sort of self doubt. It’s what spurs us on to try harder. Just a question of finding balance.
You do good stuff. The show will be great, just drink a lot before you go and be your chaming self.
Erica..make the call. He wouldn’t have invited you to meet if he didn’t think you were “there”.
Patricia’s tweet and my tweet to Estrin / NYT Lens photo mob experiment – who else posted?
http://twitpic.com/1690sf
http://twitpic.com/1697li
John G;
It’s the photographic equivalent of shadow boxing… Everytime you shoot a picture you want to do better next time; ad infinitum. A bit like a dog chasing its tail! :-)
erica. i think you should make the call. Nothing in your work is any reason not to.
All. Thanks…went well….I think :) must wait and see.
Aitken. Yes.
ERICA
A Place For Us is a very important work, one that highlights a longstanding injustice in our country. Your work is part of the change that is happening and it is all about seeing each individual as filled with dignity and worthy of respect. Laws can change but it is attitudes that have a tendency to lag behind. The way you see and portray the residents of Surf Manor shows the new attitudes that must evolve in all of ouur consciousness. You are making a difference and I commend you for that. It’s one thing to be an excellent photographer and quite another to use this creative gift to benefit others. Brava to you!
Patricia
Nothing like a spot photo assignment on tight deadline to get the blood going…
http://twitpic.com/1693s6
Jim would fire me.
Gordon, John…if it were an email…
I know it’s lame, but you asked, and I told – maybe I will call – in the Spring :) when hope is alive
but should add, john – re: nothing in your work is any reason not too…i feel the same about you
we should rep each other
ERICA
“..i have here in front of me the phone number of one of the world’s most savvy photo collector’s, who invited me to meet with him, and i just can’t, cause I always feel my work isn’t there, though there’s no there there….”
If he invited you to meet with him, it is because he sees something there. You should respect his judgement and take a deep breath and dial the phone, and then meet. Do not hesitate…
Perhaps Shakespeare said it best: “Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.”
good light,
a.
KOOL STUFFF ERICA >>>>>>> CONGRATULATIONS \m/ ……
erica
indeed maybe there is no there there, as far as your work being “there” goes… but you know when you look at what is published and what is exhibited, don’t you feel that a lot of it is just politics or who you know or who the flavor of the month is? why not call this guy? your work is excellent. simple as that. there’s a lot of room at the top. maybe this person wants to see some prints as in introduction, and will suggest another meeting in another year to judge your progress… or maybe some funding will come your way via print sales. so many of the decision makers and self-appointed “curators” in the photo world have no real credentials other than saying, hey, listen to me! i’ve got the right black pants and cool glasses and i had dinner with david aan harvey once and stephen shore is my second cousin and i shined john szarkowski’s shoes in 1983. BFD. if someone likes your work meet with him/her. make the call, step up, enjoy the glow.
been updating my random big picture blog..
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpbigpicture/
David Bowen. Some real gems in there. Slags wanted, need money for drugs…little classics.
David Bowen- Nice set man! Nice pictures as well!
Slags wanted? – Try Saarf Laandan Moi Sahn!
INNIT, yeah like – ya get meh?
Great photos DB…
brought me back in my younger days…ahhh
panos..
yeps.. younger and fitter :ø)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtqDB2spyG0
Papa’s got a brand new bag
webster – nice one
Patricia – you break my heart :)
all re: about making the call, thanks, it’s now on the to-do list
Thanks Erica, yours too. I know that Brooklyn view. Know it all too well. And I guess I’m not caught up on congratulating you for all your recent successes as they are coming so fast and furious. So congrats for it all and preemptively for all that will surely come. It’s nice to see good work by good people recognized and rewarded. And finally, I’d never presume to tell you to call the frick’in collector, but call the frick’in collector already! Just kidding. You seem to be making great photo career decisions on your own. No need for input from these parts.
We love you MASAAKI…
SPACECOWBOY …take care our MASAAKI …I know he is smiling …aha…
VIVA ,VIVA,VIVA !!!