my imaginary title for this two picture essay is “Closing Time”….taken in Austin, Texas last week…both without me getting out of my seat….some of you probably imagine me running all over the place, but when i am shooting i usually do not move much…i do a lot of photography while sitting down…used the car window frame for a tripod on the car/train shot and i only got up to get the waitress’ name, Amanda, so i could send her a picture….and i invented a story in my head to connect the two pictures….i started thinking American Graffitti, Paris Texas, Last Picture Show, Five Easy Pieces..well, sometimes i get carried away…
point is i am always playing….particularly when i am supposed to be working…those who know me will tell you i do a pretty good job of combining work and play..oftentimes confusing the two….sometimes to my detriment, but often at the heart of it…and no doubt one of the reasons i have enjoyed every minute of being a photographer…i think i have taken pictures almost every day of my life since i was 12 or so…with gusto…one of these days i had better get that archive really organized…hmmm
however, the real photographers last week were my students…i do not show much student work here on Burn for fear of being accused of playing favorites with those i mentor…but, when i saw the last student show at the Austin Museum of Art after we had worked so hard on it, i realized that getting in on an essay from the ground up so to speak, definitely has its advantages…not to direct the photographer, but merely to stimulate the photographer…so i plan now to get in earlier with many young photographers and work with them the way most print magazines do with their work and in the same fashion as i do with my students……involvement early on….not as a necessary prerequisite…some essays come in done done…but, for those who would most benefit from an early “have you ever thought about it this way?” nudge……
while i will continue and encourage essays that are totally finished, i will now encourage also relevant ideas….literal or conceptual….ideas that can be developed…i will set up soonest a mechanism for idea submission along with our standard submission guidelines….one of the advantages of this is that out of this i think will develop a strong cadre of photographers who have chosen to publish original work on Burn…at the same time , i will be looking for sponsors to finance this work…
as most of you know we broke ground by getting the Nachtwey TB essay on Burn sponsored by BD..Jim was paid well and Burn was paid for production…i am now doing a new budget with BD to see if we can also get funding for some of you…so study what BD does…send me some ideas with a link to your work…and i think all of you know in general that if Burn in any way receives sponsorship, the first thing that will happen with the funds is to pay for your photography published…all photographers whose work will appear in the upcoming print edition of Burn will receive royalties based on sales…this will be an on demand collector edition of Burn…
with the IPad coming we should position ourselves to be ready…yes, we need to go to an HTML platform and yes this is all new territory, but fate has put us in an interesting position….i am sure you can see it…sponsors might too….in addition, as president of Magnet, the new Magnum company designed to help reinvent content presentation on the net, i am working closely with Gilles Peress our online guru visionary, and Alex Webb, president of Magnum…while Burn is my baby, Magnum is my patron..and the two are not mutually exclusive..keep an eye on us….
in the meantime, i am going to sit down….reflect a bit….enjoy the evening…watch prints come off the printer …..it is not closing time around here just yet…
-dah-
love that fucking beautiful right side x-crossing light and the sun-burst skin’d-kiss of reflected light on the train’s body too……:))
ok, so, this will be quick, as in a skype down about ideas….:))
i think here, and elsewhere, honestly that this IS the critical shit about mentoriship and support and making things make sense…oriented toward real beautiful strange photography: to encourage and support and foster ideas…because some photographers graft stories upon their pictures…and some photographers graft pictures upon their stories/ideas…and damn, what a better way to convince….
that Austin was both a revelation and a support, i aint surprised :)))…there some class cats there :)))….and that is the way to go…to elevate the idea about community of idea, more than picture, to get the juices flowing to hone and hunt whatever idea someone wants to pursue and to support it, for in the end, we are that:
speakers of things, in word or picture or occupation, just hunters of things, of inspired ideas…
and damn right…
and is that rosenfield and steel’s camaro in front?? ;)))
ok, back to skype with west coast :))
hugs
bob
BOB…
Lance’s car?? no way…Lance drives an inauspicious Subaru Outback grey in color and not a cop target and the car in which i was riding shotgun and took this picture because there was nothing else to do…
Pingback: Tweets that mention closing time… | burn magazine -- Topsy.com
DAVID
“Lance drives an inauspicious Subaru Outback…” ??
Are you sure you don’t mean “inconspicuous”?
The last car I owned and drove before I gave up personal car ownership ten years ago was a Subaru Outback, and there was nothing ‘inauspicious’ about it… a great car, pleasure to drive, never had any trouble with it, and for a shorty like me, the fold-down back seat made a bed just long enough to sleep in… (undoubtedly too short for Lance, however).
And while I’m remembering that, there’s something mighty familiar about that cafe, too… I guess it could be any of a hundred cafes just like that in central Texas or thousands in the West and South, but yeah, it feels like Austin, not so much the contemporary Austin, as the Austin I remember from when I lived there for a little under a year back in the early 70s when it was only beginning to become a music capital. So where exactly is that cafe, David?
DAVID AGAIN,
That was a only a digressive prelude to what I really wanted to offer as a response to the thrust of what I think you’re saying… which is that you want to immerse yourself even further and in new ways in the nurturing and mentoring process of young photographers using BURN as your vehicle..
Maybe by now, having watched the outpourings of your energy and enthusiasm over the last few years I shouldn’t be surprised, but in all honesty I continue to be amazed by your ability to ‘reframe’ the picture and reinvent yourself and your projects, always opting for deeper involvement rather than stepping back or detaching yourself. So, if you can keep it up that way, I know it must be fun. And all I can say is, Rock On, Compadre…
Pingback: uberVU - social comments
SIDNEY…
ok, yea you are right..let’s go with inconspicuous ..that was Artz’s Rib House and i have no idea where it is….but, even though i had never been to Austin before, i could tell this place was the old Austin…you just gotta love red and white cotton checkered table cloths, great ribs,live country music,cold beer and waitresses named Amanda….
energy begets energy for me Sidney…taking things very seriously and having fun doing it….printing tonight American Family…actually the first time i have really seen these pictures…they have been contact sheets for two years…makes we want to get right back on the American trail soonest..yet, i have Rio to finish…and you guys to worry about….oh well, staying busy does seem to be keeping me out of trouble..sort of
cheers, david
DAVID,
Being able to sit down instead of running around for the “best shot” and decide that the best photograph to take will be right where you are has been one of the very best insights I got from you…Somehow, something always happen if you carefully choose the spot and be patient… I also applaud the suggestion of submitting ideas that can be developed over time… I think this is how it all started back in the days of Road Trips when you asked us all to send you some “ideas” of what would be our ideal assignment, something we could do right where we live…and it produced Venice from Panos, Patricia’s essay, the The Dark Light of this Nothing of Erica, the cowboys of Lance, Bones…my own “Lords of the Ring” and some others that I am forgetting… Obviously, with the frequency of publications on BURN, you cannot rely on just these longer efforts that start from scratch but there is nothing more satisfying than to see an idea develop under your inspiration and push… so it is great to see you commited to this idea… when do we start? :):):)
Separately, I wish I had known Lance back then but I used to go to Austin frequently when I studied in the US in the early 90s…I was “lost” for 3 years doing research in chemical engineering in Champaign Urbana (Illinois) in the middle of the corn fields while a very good French pal of mine was doing the same in Austin…. even though I was meant to study in the mid-west, it felt as if I have spent more time in Austin… working in Austin is THE challenge..all these bars, the music, the fun, the lovely waitresses… I used to ride horses there and go for the week-end in the green fields near the city…talk about “cliche” but the young French guy I was back then wanted to live the American dream…. Good memories!!!!
Cheers,
Eric
i once had the idea for a book of ´photos from a seated position´ ..
take it easy
:ø)
ATTN:
IT IS NOT CLOSING TIME…not yet…oime I spilled my ouzo …my heart is weak …oime…
A BIG HUG to NACHTWEY and to BD…
ouzo for G.PERESS and WEBB…
wine for the SPONSORS
AND LOVE FOR ALL OF YOU…
P.S POMARA …the BBQ…!!!
The restaurant scene reminds me of Cowgirls in Santa Fe. Remember that restaurant DAH?
ohhh.Lee.. u are here? in this new virtual room?
then this movie inspired from you:
the sea does feel like a tigress. Strong, protective, nourishing.
——————————————————————-
THE SEA
THE SEA
THE Pelagos…The Ionion Pelagos…
2 days ago a relative died..The whole family had to go towards the cemetery up in the mountain towards the east…
i went west towards the Sea…The Ionion Pelagos that connects Italy with Greece…I had to talk with the sea..
“…the sea does feel like a tigress. Strong, protective, nourishing…”
That is what i saw..
plz click below , watch my new little “Movie”..:
movie
movie click here…
best seat in the house..
ALL..Enjoy my NEW movie…hot from the oven..
American family is worth the wait!
I saw a bit of it in Bangkok , I took a deep breath when I saw it, so damn simple, so damn hard… Uncle.. shame you can’t come round and shoot our clan.
Subaru OutBack??? – sorry guys a good mate of mine from Alice Springs was in tears recently after his wife made him trade in his Landcruiser Ute for a more family friendly Subaru Outback…I had to pull him back from the edge, not so succesfully as it turned out ‘cos he joined the army (reserve) not long after.
But there are no flies on the Subaru Outback .. please , It’s a perfect photographers car, roomy boot , a nice tight turning circle and capable of rapid acceleration … a wise choice!
Hers a photo I took while sitting down.
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/highways/mutika-10/
Hey David, I really like the waitress photo. It seems that the little ways in which it strikes me as not quite right somehow elevate it aesthetically. The softness. The abstraction in the peripheral diners. The way the waitress is centered. Funny thing is, if that were to become some kind of iconic photo, it would probably remind me of Salgado every time I see it. That’s just wrong, eh?
Half joking aside, it’s also a great example of what you and Gladdy are always talking about concerning the superiority of prints. This jpeg does not do it justice. Though that said, I think it would benefit by a different kind of processing for the screen. A little more contrast. A little less yellow. Perhaps slightly deeper blacks. Of course the composition would carry it no matter the processing. You’ve captured something we normally see as banal and showed it to be art. Was she really giving you the finger? Was it just an accident? Or could it be an unconscious communication of how she really feels about her job and possibly life in that place?
Of course by “peripheral designers” I meant peripheral diners. Do you think that was really just a typo or perhaps an unconscious communication about how I think photos are really made? Typo, I’m pretty sure.
It’s a perfect photographers car….… a wise choice!
—————————————
yes the little car ..it is a wise choice..
being A photographer isnt as wise …. :)
David B’s “photos from a seated position” could be the title of a retrospective of my life’s work! Shooting from my scooter seat certainly gives me a unique perspective. Generally looking UP towards my subject. Everybody looks heroic to me!
Yes, Eric, I too thought of Road Trips circa Spring 2008 when I read this post. “Assignments” we called them back then and that idea of DAH’s sure led to some fine work by fired-up emerging photogs like you and Bob and Erica and Lance and others whom I am temporarily forgetting. I know David’s encouragement and mentoring meant the difference between my self portraits being a short-term fling and a long-term commitment. So I’m delighted to hear that he’s offering to follow emerging (not always “young”, David!) photogs here on Burn from their first hint of an idea to their completed project. David’s generous spirit cannot be matched. I look forward to see what flames are ignited…
Patricia
MICHAEL…
laughing..well, i do not think the waitress (Amanda) was giving me the finger, but i do like the symbolism implied therein in this accidental gesture…
ERIC…PATRICIA…
yes, you guys remember when i did give out about 10 assignments…i did get a bit discouraged when about 70% of those assigned just never came through…like remember Jonathan Hanson and the Baltimore cops?? really started strong, i spent a lot of time talking/editing with Jonathan, and then he just disappeared…and the guy who was working on racism in Pittsburgh i think..a French photographer…lost him…anyway, i am going to give it another try…you guys came through, as did Erica and Panos, so it was all worth it in the long run…
LEE…
yes, this place in Austin is the same type of place as Cowgirls in Santa Fe where you shot that essay….well, the Austin place is more about the ribs, whereas Cowgirls was more about the beer…but, same look and light
GLENN..
i had only seen Amer Family in either contact sheets or as a slide show…seeing big prints changed even my view of the whole project…made it real….the med format film really shows in the larger prints….so, i am now anxious to get back on the road with that project…..and yes yes, i would love to do something similar in Australia….i know i owe you an email…flying home this morning and will get back to you soonest…
cheers, david
Of course! I forgot to mention Panos and his Venice Beach assignment. Man, did THAT one ever fly!!! But, yes, there were the ones that never made it past the starting gate. Seems to me, though, you had a pretty good percentage who followed through, David. Good memories…
Patricia
PATRICIA…
yes, the essayists that came through really came through….yes, good memories…and now time for some new ones as well….the difference now is that i will try to match good ideas with potential funding..no small task and the percentages will be low…but , in this current biz climate i think worth the effort…
cheers, david
i think that is the right link for my little “movie”
IONION PELAGOS (MOVIE EPISODE 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLqD4uxV_os
(good morning americaaa..Episode2 coming soon..in the oven as we speak)
DAH, with submitting ideas do you mean written ideas or a half started picture essay.. or?
MICHAEL…
fixed your typo….by the way, i shot both pictures with the GF1 and at higher iso 800 than is really good for that camera..on the other had i could not have or would not have made the waitress picture with anything other than a point and shoot…it happened so so fast..literally a point and shoot picture…yes, we will tweak the color a bit in the final print…
EVA…
basically a written idea..but , if some work has been done, then all relevant pictures are important as well…a link to related work should be included…we will set up the mechanism to make this easy….i will look at your Palio work this weekend…ok, running..late for flight…
cheers, david
Ah yes, funding. Something I wasn’t even thinking of back then. And now? It has become a very big deal! It’s great to complete a project, even to make a book dummy of it, but getting it published in today’s economic environment? Harder than pulling teeth with tweezers.
Patricia
Love the idea, David!
I had a wild idea a while ago, about a possible win-win partner for the European branch of BURN. It COULD generate more than one payed assignment for people here. I actually do not see why it should not work, but you know how it is with these things: very political. So better not to spill the beans here yet.
But some people here know that I can be quite stubborn … so let’s pray that it works out.
What I also want to say with that is, that I think we all here should not just lean back and wait until David comes up with something for us. But it might be the other way: someone has an idea, does some reseach as to who could be interested in sponsoring this idea (win-win) and then do a pitch.
After talking to some people on skype I have the impression, that most do not know how to approach this step: doing an professional pitch to a company. So considering the importance of this, it might be helpful to get some general assistance for this – maybe even via the BURN organization. Know-how transfer.
I think it would be much more fun for David too, if people came with a concept AND a sponsor … :) At least once in a while. At the end of the day, it is our own responsibility anyway, to find a way to do the things we want to do.
Just a thought.
And yessss … I was one of the people you were mentoring, David. The postcard project – part1. I decided that that one was done a while back. And I started with the concept of part 2, which uses a different approach (for the postcards). So it was either to close part 1 or not to be able to use it at all. I decided to close it. And I do now have some requests to publish it. One of the requests comes from China. Quite interesting. I think I menitoned it to you on Skype.
I hope to be able to show you new work for the postcard project part 2. very soon. And I hope – as you liked the project – that you feel inclined to mentor that one too? :)
I hope we meet again soon. Somewhere.
DAH, thanks, whenever, no worries.. was asking ’cause usually I don’t have a clear idea of what I want, I get that only DURING the shooting, not before.. and even then it might change.. safe flight.. (I wish the ‘Amanda’ pic was a bit less soft, a bit more defined.. her face and/or hand more like the shoulder area.. not sure if that’s clear..)
Patricia, getting published.. and the distribuited, that’ll be another tooth in line there..
(sorry for the incorrect spelling in my last post) – I am on the road. Difficult.)
ALL
do you know “The Independent Photo Book” from Jörg Colberg and Mrs Deane (Beierle + Keijser)?
“The Independent Photo Book announces independently published and/or produced photography books or zines, which are not available via Amazon or other standard outlets.”
http://theindependentphotobook.blogspot.com
It seems to be quite well known already, so it might be helpful to get the message out. Even it if it is not a distributer by itself.
ahh yes, the roadtrips’ assignments – i remember mine well.
for me, you offered up the idea of shooting one of the street kids going home for a visit and reuniting with family.
i chose ghost, who was planning such a trip to see his dad after having no contact for 4-5 years.
i drove him to tacoma, we went to his dad’s house, and they proceeded to sit and drink, on lawn chairs outside, for approx. 8 hours. yea, i took a bunch of photos but.. it was a bust, really. nothing to speak of, photographically. they just sat and drank and sat and drank until it got dark out and we left.
couldn’t squeeze an essay out of it.
Katia…:)
Are u still with the Kids?
DAH –
you say look study what BD does – is that the idea, to submit ideas in line with their mission?
and thanks for all the chatty chat chat – very helpful – we should make it a year in the texts of, and run it.
never too late…to start or continue..
I personally think i need to go back and re-start two projects again..
first my unfinished story (of my life) of the DARK KIDS…( i know they are older now)..
and second..
to re-start Venice Beach again…but with a different “eye”..different perspective ..
different approach…coz im different now…i detached my self from my initial “point of view”..
Panos, that is so interesting…about your needing/wanting to go back to your two older projects with fresh eyes. And yes, you HAVE changed. This journey back to your roots has strengthened and grounded you in ways that your life in Southern California could never have done. I would LOVE to see how your vision has changed once you return to the States. Yours is certainly a fascinating life to follow…
hugs
Patricia
Patricia i hear u..
i cant even imagine my life without Burn…
that open window for expression…
an opportunity not only to grow/share/develop…
but mainly to let it out…
a unique chance to come closer to ourselves..through others…
turn the lens inside..inner…mirror…
the motivation to continue…
learn about the world through ourselves…
sing our song..setting ourselves free..
getting out of our little tiny closets..
exorcise our demons even…
ahhh, arent we lucky?
Speaking of changing our point of view, I just stumbled on a most helpful way of seeing my work with fresh eyes.
As I’ve said before, I’ve been obsessing over my multimedia edit of the gay married couple. Just couldn’t get it right. So I had an “AHA” moment two days ago that, instead of color, it should be in b&w. A more classical approach. Converted lots of the pics to b&w using my trusty Alien Skin software and started playing with the edit. I found I could see things with new eyes, almost as if going back to the fundamentals of form, shadow/light and structure helped me see more clearly. I was no longer seduced by color. After some playing around with these building blocks, I found an edit that sat well with me. And then I had another “AHA” moment: something had been lost in b&w, a burst of life and energy that I wanted was missing. So I went back to color using the same edit I’d made with the b&w images and it was like returning home and knowing it for the first time (to mangle TS Eliot’s quote). There it was. Just what I wanted.
Has anyone else had this kind of experience? It’s a first for me.
Patricia
go back to your two older projects with fresh eyes.
———————————————-
yes..reuniting with myself (in the name of the projects )…yes
Oh yes, dear Panos. We are VERY lucky indeed!!!
And now I’m off to enjoy this beautiful spring day here in Detroit. The earliest spring I’ve ever seen in my 45 years of living in this part of the world. I know it’s got to be global warming but it’s hard not to love purple crocii in bloom, birds singing as they build their nests, tender green shoots on bushes and everyone outside with smiles on their faces.
May everyone enjoy their day/night wherever they are…
Patricia
DAVID/SIDNEY :))…
NO FRICKIN’ WAY….inauspicious is way way more appropriate than inconspicuous :))))….cause an OUTBACK AINT INCONSPICUOUS IN TEXAS…it’d stick out like a shoutgun in an outhouse there, cause real inconspicuousness would be covered by a pickup truck (they’re everywhere there)…
Lance, by the way, has totally stepped it up in the world, ’cause here is his former mode of transportation:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=109673897965
DAVID (part 2)
ok, funding for ideas….i’ll propose one…to complete my project on memory/faces/….part 3 of the work is what i’ll be sending to Burn :)))))…
ok, gotta fly
ghugs
b
Patricia…
dont convert in b&w that particular photo that Nikos E. liked…please..
big hug
oh, forgot the vid:
bob…perfect… CLOSING TIME
ok ALL..
im proud to present the movie (ionion pelagos EPISODE 2)
or
THE DAY OF THE FUNERAL…
As i said earlier a (relatively distant) relative died couple days ago..
So i took with me the Philosopher Dimitri and headed the opposite way..
Everyone went up in the mountain (east) for the funeral except us two..
we decided to go west..visit the Lighthouse…and mourn through philosophy
and study of nature..
here is the little Movie: The Day of the Funeral or (Ionion Pelagos EPISODE 2)
enjoy:
ERICA…
i think the challenge for the future is going to be matching sponsors with specific ideas and projects….i think it reasonable to assume that BD would most likely sponsor a project that was at least loosely related to what they do…something medical related , which includes a plethora of possibilities…
PATRICIA…
i did the layout for Div Soul with b&w prints….but, of course, i already knew they worked in color, but wanted to make sure the picture itself was “there”..divorced of the color component…
Good morning all. Interesting talk and nice to watch videos of friends. When talking of funding in these really tight economic times and having sponsors I wonder about the agendas attached to sponsored work. I may be out of the loop somewhat as the time difference between here and most of the rest of BURN is long. The original concept of BURN to get sponsors to support emerging photographers is still very sound. How do we expand the sponsorship so that there is money to expand the reach of support to photographers? DAH I know you are always full of ideas of how to get more work out there; at some point you will run totally out of time, I would think. If each of us reached into our pockets that would help. A board of directors usually would require the directors to be not just a volunteer on the board but also donate cash to really show their dedication to the project. And then looked around our neighborhood to see who is out there that feels strongly about getting photo work in the public eye that raises awareness. If all put in a little there would be a lot. We all may plead poverty but support begins at home.
i think the challenge for the future is going to be matching sponsors with specific ideas and projects….i think it reasonable to assume that BD would most likely sponsor a project that was at least loosely related to what they do…something medical related , which includes a plethora of possibilities…
PATRICIA…
i did the layout for Div Soul with b&w prints….but, of course, i already knew they worked in color, but wanted to make sure the picture itself was “there”..also spent a lot of time looking at them upside down, a la Henri….
maybe this should be even more of an inspiration then funding
DAH: out for the weekend now, last minutes edits…will call u after the piece gets published….
for y;all
Argh, Bob, saw this just the other day (read the book years ago).. makes my heart ache.. have a brother up there in the middle of the boonies in BC, doing just that..
Panos, those daisies with the sound of the wind…
eva :))
yea…read the book when it was first published…broke me too….the film is terrific too…and well…what can we do, but to live, burn back holes in dark memories and find our direction magnetically…
wishing u brother big rivers and above all that’s he sharing it with someone…
running
b
panos!!!
that daisy part….and the wind….and the bee….
the wind….the only thing one can do, but to get risen by the wind….
loved ur film!!!
and the taping on the metal (philosopher emptying his pipe?) at the end…..let me know when next installment comes…
ok, gotta fly, behind behind…
hugsb
he he bob..u got that right..the metal sound…emptying the pipe…
David,
Thank you again for your assignment. Maybe I wouldn’t have made my essay on my parents, never, it is thanks to you! But the way, I have just sent you an email, I shall need your help :)))
all the best, audrey
Just think, a photo camping trip/workshop/hangout in the BC wilderness… you’ll never want to leave.
BOB,
Funny, Eddie called me to take some photos for that album. Real casual – go out to some local wooded park and pretend. Never happened alas. Cool film – even better book.
Best,
CP
DAH,
Liking the GF-1 stuff, but just wondering what they would look like if white balance was a bit closer to norm. Not so much as to ruin the ambience but just not so glaringly orange.
Printed a 24X36 inch print last night from the M9. Looks amazing.
Teaching a 4 week long rock photography camp this summer to grades 9-12. Should be fun (I hope). Will try and push with some assignments – though with a gentle hand. A tricky sensitive age…
CP
Subaru OutBack??? .. has nothing on my old Subaru Brumby
Back in “87 I couldn’t bear to part with “Old Mary so I didn’t trade her in for the brumby just stuck her on a wall in the kitchen http://www.artouko.com/imanta.htm
CHARLES…
yea, we shoulda tweaked out the color a bit…usually leave my digi on cloudy and when i get into very warm incandescent situations it gets too warm ..if i have time to think of course i change, but in both of these cases i was not thinking..both surprises..both grab and shoot….and we were too rushed around here yesterday to think anything abt changing the color on these files…printing for Madrid show…..takes all of our focus..particularly mike’s…maybe we will fix today…
DAH,
In the first one, you need to straighten the horizon a little and in the second you need to up the shutter speed a little and maybe try a black and white on it :-D LMAO, oh lord, but i’ve always wanted to do that. LMAO a second time. Well that’s certainly brought a smile to my face (hopefully yours too!).
Hey, in seriousness – great plans get delivered by a mix of enthusiasm, time and circumstance. What we’ve heard thus far is both profound and exciting. Time will be your friend in delivering more of the evolving master plan. Can’t wait for the printed edition, and for GREAT works to be realised through this new age content development and delivery channel. I previously posted about the necessity for photographers to embrace new models of operation and delivery. THIS is it, THIS is Burn.
With every best wish,
T
TOMMY…
you are quite correct in both instances and i am sure you share my amazement in how i have gotten by this far without even practicing the basics…i have tried to provide a light for those out there who know they just coulda shoulda woulda done better!!
in all seriousness, many thanks for your supportive comment….promises cannot be made regarding sponsorship, but efforts will go forth nonetheless…it is not about the money per se…those of us who really care about our work will most likely survive but not thrive…. but i want to create a platform which is about photographers being respected enough in the business transactions of communication and arts to be fairly compensated when possible…
your ideas will always be welcomed…
cheers, david
but i want to create a platform which is about photographers being respected enough in the business transactions of communication and arts to be fairly compensated when possible….. watch it!! the fine arts is chasing the same dollar as it transforms and takes up some of the photographers traditional domains………hot on the heels are the kids of today grabbing it all into one great jumble of fun………free to air and on the net and for ever engaging new audiences
…as copyright looses its grip, the freedom of knowledge, ideas and interaction come to the top ………………and it is about time, too long have we been tethered to the those archaic laws instigated by the Statute of Anne. Bring on the jumble sale
…..time to get out of the new www dot rut, here is a teaser NOW PAY UP IF YOU WANT TO FURTHER YOUR EXPERIENCES IN LIFE
………….worried about your photographic career, well you shouldn’t be as there will be no place for you to forge a life of luxury and photographiv excess,…… so have your garage sale now and disperse your precious copyright jumble
………ah that pesky closing down sale can be a disheartening experience but once those shackles are removes………..
…..d
Thanks Tommy for clearing up the mystery, your jesting sent me back to look and then I saw the horizon. The photo of the train, when you look at the top of the photo–there is the same distance between the top of the train and the top of the photo all the way across. Absolutely perfect black space with this train whizzing by on the angle. The railroad sign so clear and sharp and the racy car waiting for it to pass.
DAH, that is an excellent photo. Thanks for sharing so generously of your images and your time. I hope all who read this take my earlier advise and support that which they love with their wallets. It doesn’t have to be much, just a little from all of us. What we are learning and those that we are connecting with are priceless.
IMANTS…
so, you do not want to be the owner of your work? you do not want have control over how it is used? surely if we get your book to a fine art publisher, you will want to have the copyright on the material…or, am i totally misunderstanding you?
…so have your garage sale now and disperse your precious copyright jumble
Yea, and notice who profits from all your unpaid work. Cause profit ain’t going away. Profit’s going up. That’s what free content means. Just cause you ain’t getting paid for your work doesn’t mean someone isn’t. It just ain’t you, babe.
imants, copyright is my ‘hot’ button, don’t know what you are saying in your five messages…yea or nay?..can’t tell…for me copyright is my protection, I use it and these days my biggest source of revenue…creative, I don’t know but as long as copyright is law I’m happy to enforce my rights…cheers…
Yea, and notice who profits from all your unpaid work. Cause profit ain’t going away….now that is the problem,…………this simplistic way of looking at things based on the present status quo and smacks of good guy verses bad guy mentality. Very few in this world profit from copyright and it thwarts the gathering of knowledge by the masses.
There has to be a revision in the way we use copyright to make it more equitable as a benefit to all not this…… I made it so you pay for all even though I used shared resources to create it. For example photographers use other peoples’ resources to benefit even up to using other people’s wars and misfortunes. The glory days of photography are gone, if you want to survive you will have to make concessions and the final result will not please.
You guys oppose change because it effects you as an individual and your present lifestyle a bit like the northern hemisphere just went through a cold winter ..what global warming goes out the cry. We as the he first world nations making concessions to developing nations at their loss…not in my lifetime said the politician and those that voted for him/her.
Until someone comes up to you Doug and says that is me in that photo where is my money…….will you answer, tough luck buddy you were in a public place and I can do anything I want/profit with that photo of you. Happy to see the subject squirm for your own profit?
Imants,
Put your hands ups and step back from the bong…
No seriously, I think I know where your coming from but frankly it comes off as a lot of hippy speak. Big jump from protecting the worth and validity of one’s own art/material to the first world taking advantage of the developing world. C’mon man give us all a break…
I know I’ve worked hard for what I’ve created and it upsets me when I see a company using my work with not even asking let alone paying. And it’s usually some dumb 20-something designer who thinks everything under the sun is up for grabs. Well, it is, in a way, for say the purpose of educating, but when you start putting a price tag on it and pocketing somebody else’s worth that’s just fucked.
I know because of some dumb ass at Urban Outfitters they ended up paying Jim Marshall several million dollars (for using his Johnny Cash photo). Rightly so. Just what are people thinking sometimes? Latest example is that outdoor coat company using billborads of Obama (who just happened to be wearing their product) without asking. Stupid. Just where do you draw the line? Shouldn’t we at least have the law to uphold common sense.
Okay Imants, hope you got your shit screen on. :)
[converting color photos to b&w] I found I could see things with new eyes, almost as if going back to the fundamentals of form, shadow/light and structure helped me see more clearly.
Patricia brings up some interesting questions, for me at least. From what I gather, work done in b&w greatly increases the likelihood of getting any kind of photojournalism published and/or sold in a gallery. Is that true as well for work that was conceived in color and converted to b&w? I don’t mean that as a rhetorical question. Well, maybe I do. Isn’t it pretty close to 100 percent dumb luck to get a great b&w photo without any consideration whatsoever for shades of grey? Does seeing in greyscale count for nothing? Or is the qualitative difference of seeing that way obvious in all great black and white photography? That’s what I’ve always thought, but I confess I’m not up on the latest evidence. Maybe things have changed? Still, I remember David commenting awhile back that he turns the color off when he wants to shoot b&w with a digital camera. And I don’t mean to put myself out there as any kind of expert, but I recently spent a year shooting almost exclusively black and white. I made every effort to see the zones. And it sure seemed seeing that way made a huge difference in my modest results. I’d think it would matter a helluva lot more in the work of the greats. They see things in black and white that are as yet invisible to me. That’s for sure. But then anyone can get lucky. 1000 monkeys typing nonstop until the end of time would never write The Brothers Karamazov, but give them all a nice SLR and they’d eventually produce some pretty nice photos. Though in photography’s defense, it is theoretically possible that enough monkeys actually could write The Brothers K by accident, but the physical laws of the universe preclude anyone, monkey or whatnot, from ever producing the same photo again. That moment has passed.
Along vaguely related lines, I found Patricia’s discovery that it’s useful to use color photos converted to black and white solely for layout purposes interesting, though it strikes me as counter-intuitive. I can see how that might be be useful for geometrical relationships, but wouldn’t it mess up the color syntax? The relationship between the colors from one photo to the next might not be quite as important to a story’s effectiveness as the intellectual content and flow (though it might), but I’d think nailing them both would make a much better narrative. Or maybe I read that a little wrong? I can see David’s point that it would be a useful way to weed out problematic photos.
Sorry if I’m going on too much. Just been thinking a lot about color for a long while and sometimes writing helps clarify the thinking.
An eventful week. Just got back from Edmonton, attending an aunts’ funeral. While I was gone, a member of my wife Marthas’ Lasqueti tribe passed away, at thirty-five, un-expectedly of a heart attack. Martha went to the funeral this afternoon.
Deaths of people close to us are reminders to cherish and treasure our lives.
http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/123084912
Imants, I think you’re confusing copyright with intellectual property. Sure. there’s some overlap, but they’re not the same thing. If that’s the case, then I’m in general agreement with most of what you write. Cause I don’t think paying for a photo or a Nick Cave tune or a Studio Ghibli movie or any artistic endeavor thwarts the information gathering rights of the masses. I don’t think there is a fundamental right to listen to Sergent Pepper’s or to watch Citizen Kane, much less the latest blockbuster. I’d be more likely to argue that not paying for art thwarts the information gathering capabilities of the masses. In either case, probably the best thing you can do is support your local library. Those things are designed to further the information gathering capabilities of the masses. Copyright doesn’t stop them from fulfilling that function.
But not distributing AIDS vaccine? Not sharing any kind of knowledge that would save or significantly improve lives for the sake of profit, and obscene profit at that? That’s a different issue. There shouldn’t be a choice in the matter.
No seriously, I think I know where your coming from but frankly it comes off as a lot of hippy speak……Charles what a nasty low remark so I won’t bother responding, you don’t know nor do you care.
….hmmn after re reading Chrle’s comment I would say he woke up and found a dick stapled to his head
Wrong I am not confusing one or the other………
…but frankly it comes off as a lot of hippy speak
Damn, I was so going for Chomsky…
Oh, I see. Never mind.
Patricia
An interesting exercise.
In pre-digital days, all my personal work was black and white, now, it is mostly colour.
It is true that black and white reduces a photograph to the bare bones, the graphics, the nitty gritty of the pure image. I have not tried it, but I suspect that many of my favourites from the past few years, if converted to b/w would still work.
There are times when colour is a distraction, but I am feeling lately there are many more times when the lack of colour is a distraction.
David has already commented on the colour balance of the closing time photos. I’ve noticed that David seems to favour un-corrected colour, as if he were shooting film. I was thinking that our expectations, our visual vocabulary, is film based. Really, this is not what we see, but what we expect photographs to look like.
With digital of course it is easy to show the correct colour, which is closer to how we actually percieve it. Our eyes and brain choose a neutral, and all the other colours fall into place, pretty much like doing a custom white balance. While a neutral colour balance is more accurate, I still find it just looks more “right” to only partially correct colour in many situations, again I think this is because of the years of film based programming. I think our expectations, and what looks “right” will shift as corrected colour becomes more the norm in the digital age.
Black and white? Will interest in it fade away?.
I am in the middle of doing my annual Mothers and Daughters show. In film days, more than half of my clients chose black and white. If they wanted black and white, I shot on black and white film. The first year we were all digital, about half the clients requested black and white, but since the photos were shot digitally, they got to choose after the fact wether they really wanted black and white after the fact. Almost everyone who had requested black and white changed their mind when confronted with the difference side by side. Last year there were only four black and white prints out of more than forty in the show. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/mothers_and_daughters_09&page=all
DAH
Funny but I liked the warm orange tone. This is what streetlight looks like to me. At 20,000 feet whole cities look orange and at street level everything is tinged orange as well through my own perception. To change the white balance would be to imply that we are being lit by the Sun at night. Esthetically there could be a reason for altering the white balance to allow the photo to become more color balanced but that would not reflect the reality of the situation. Nothing wrong with that either. Bottom line, these two photos conveyed for me an image that matched my own perceptual reality. That’s a good thing IMO. Bottom, bottom, line… I am feeling you.
IMANTS et al
I too think that copyright as it exists is set up to deter innovation, reward monopolies, and ensure market exclusivity. In a small example when trying to obtain copyright license for music to produce a photographic sideshow (that will likely not end up in a revenue stream) becomes a slow bureaucratic process. This kind of inefficiency does not stimulate innovation that I am aware of in any industry from pharmaceuticals to internet and technology companies. Why should artistic endeavor of any kind be limited, have barriers in place to slow or impede the the generation of new ideas, ways of perceiving the world, and ways of communicating our common experience. Most of these endeavors do not make money and are often not designed to. When one of these artistic endeavors start to make money, cut deals with the “owner/s” of copyright materials used. This would allow for the stimulation of new ideas, opening up of whole new media models, novel approaches to old problems, and an evolution of collective conspicuousness, and allow people to make a living, (i.e. put food on the table, pay the rent/mortgage) {dry sarcasm here}. If there is no flow of capital (i.e. money) then we would have to rely on the state to supply our needs. I think Russia and China have discovered it an impossible task. This approach and balance to the needs of users/creators provides the essential business model of the internet. Doesn’t it?
This is the part so many miss …as copyright looses its grip, the freedom of knowledge, ideas and interaction come to the top …
Frank I pretty much agree with what you state and it is time for a review unfortunately the way things are going it will only further benefit the very few monopolies entrenched into this system.
When a artist/photographer/ designer dies the family or copyright owners benefit, for what? because they own the copyright, some sort of I have the right to make money from from even though I was not part of the the creative process? It becomes about the money not the work
DAH:
Is the loft open at all during the next two weeks? When will you be back in new york? I am flying in with Aga Luczakowska from Warsaw today.
Charles what a nasty low remark so I won’t bother responding, you don’t know nor do you care.
Sorry Imants. Not the best way to phrase it, and it was wrong of me. If we were on our second bottle of wine together it would have come out as funny – on the web not so much. I do care and that’s why I’m challenging you on this one. Your own particular brand of nastiness rubbed me the wrong way when you say things like “You guys oppose change because it effects you as an individual and your present lifestyle a bit like the northern hemisphere just went through a cold winter ..what global warming goes out the cry.” Most of us on here, including the owner of this site, have spent our lives dealing in change and you write us off just like that because we feel strongly about protecting our livelihoods, our art. Not really fair – ok?
Anyway, I don’t want to get into a pissing match over this (though I guess I already have!). Reading on I do understand both sides of the coin. But then I’m an old fogey at 46 who still buys cds, licensed software, and sell my prints for what I feel they/I’m are worth. If you and others feel the need to give your stuff away in the name of idealism, fine with me. I understand what Frank Michael Hack is saying above, but it’s easier said then done that later on the parties “will cut a deal” but often that’s only the case if one finds out about it, and then it’s usually a real PITA. People can be greedy, or ignorant, or both, alas. Too easy for the more malicious powers in our midst to just take and take and take. Yes, with copyright laws there will be compromises. Like with anything.
And, Imants, it may be I’m totally misunderstanding you altogether. You can be quite cryptic at times, not to mention contrarian for contrarian’s sake. Not a bad thing, just my trying to interpret.
Okay, actually GOING to bed now with dick firmly stapled to head. Quite possibly sleep deprivation is catching up with me and making me ornery. Thanks Felix!
Imants,
You come across as very cynical and often bitter sometimes. What’s up ? I hear what you’re saying about copyright, but would you allow somebody else to copy a piece of your work and use it in a publication without paying you for the privilege ?
If anybody wants to use work for a project they can easily go to a Library here in the UK and get a copy from any book or published material. Artists and Authors get small fees for such usage if you register your work. I think the system works very well so why alter it.
The problem is the net, and the big players want to be able to use stuff without paying. Again why should they ?
my quick take (without having the luxury of drinking in person) on copyright is this…
for a long time, as a writer and photographer, i believed that the copyright is all i had, all i could bequeath to my son, since i cant give him much (in the way of material things)…and slowly, i shifted…
in truth, all i have is what i accomplish now…the life lived…i dont want, any longer, to possess my work…i want to make work and send it out into the world for those, those few, who are interested in it…3 years ago i fought with Private ’cause they dont pay photographers, just as Eight didnt…and i argued about this with Jon (founder/editor of 8) and then i realized, im doing the wrong battles….so, now, it’s simple…
i dont care about that any more…because i dont want to possess anything i make…i do want to earn something, a living, a livelihood, a future, from busting my ass, even at 4:14 in the morning, to provide for my wife and son and also to make work that maybe shall sing to someone other then my own head…but, if people pull up my shit and cast it in their own vein, so be it, period….all of us are composites of words and images and ideas and contact that came from others, all of that made us, and i never paid all those photographers and writer whose work made my own, my own head, my own body…so now, it’s simpler, how do i earn: write shit, sell some pics, get money teaching, maybe a grant and award a book contract…
but…
honestly, i’ve given all away…i post pictures at facebook, i give essays to magazines that dont pay, i spend most of my time helping without jack shit of pay (i spent 2 hrs on friday helping a young photographer i didnt even know)….why…because we’re all this…
so, someone steals my work, well, that’s their life, their morality…i dont loose, because my life and my work aint defined by that…
i agree with imants on the fundamental basic idea, now….we must see our work as a medium, period….medium and medium’s cant be really stollen….in one sense, though i signed the protest of orphan works and wrote congress, i feel it’s a nibble….we must be ahead of the curve, not behind it….
cathy acker was a thief and a brilliant writer from that….
i dont want, any more that….i want now, cause i always believed any of my work or any others, aint about retaining ownership/control of posterity, but about now…which is simple:
i let it all go and from that carve out a new frontier and new work and new vision….
sometimes i think photographers cling to the wrong things, instead of freeing themselves and moving forward…..
Imants (and i love him) sometimes on purpose seems to intolerantly castigate (unfortunate) but he means well, which is that: the best thing you can tell a person is to be free and to free yourself from your own imposed limitations…
i dont want to cling to copyright any more, i want to make shit that stirs and to continue to make work…whether that is profitable or propriatry, frankly, means little to me…
and my grandmother’s 10,000 slides…..she taught me a more substantial and simple lesson….
for most photographers, in truth, your work (and my work) will mean shit to the future and to people who will profit from an archive, so instead focus on what is real now…
and that’s simple: make work, hone work, think beyond the status quo…and help one another…
‘you all can have my rights, but you cant make work as i’, and that is how i see now….they can have it, but i will always make something new….and i will give to my son now…the future is his, and that aint about my archive…
hope that makes sense ;))
hugs
b
Pete read this again,I cannot see anything bitter here …………as copyright looses its grip, the freedom of knowledge, ideas and interaction come to the top … it has nothing to do with people not paying, it is about a more equitable system. Copyright law was/is created to benefit publishers not the providers of the content. I have a heap of books that I wrote/ put together etc and my royalties have been very handsome indeed and I reckon I did a heap better than anyone who provided some of the visuals. Was it legal..yes, was it fair no, and that is what the system perpetuates.
…………….now the www dot world came in and started moving the goal posts, greed hits in for some, there are new winners, some losers etc. People become hyper protective over their yet still want to be involved in a open network to promote this work. Open and closed in the same breadth sort of doesn’t go too well together.
. Pete we all don’t live in the UK so laws differ from country to country
.
.
Most of us on here, including the owner of this site, have spent our lives dealing in change and you write us off just like that because we feel strongly about protecting our livelihoods, our art. Not really fair – ok?
Yes I have /do benefit from our present system, if all that disappeared I doubt if I would be too sad I would keep on doing what I do, dust myself off just get on with something else to make ends meet, like most I would have no choice. Yes I would like to see a more equitable system if I lose out in the process so be it…………a relative was a wheelwright and that ceased as a viable profession long before he died.
Well at least I know my staple gun is in good hands
ALL,
I see very interesting discussions here, but only a few people contributing to what DAH was asking.
I also second Lassal in saying we are not consumers here to receive input from DAH and follow his lines.
We are producers. And we are multipliers. Any idea presented here falls on fruitful ground.
So additionally to going to BD’s website to see what else they do to create ideas, we should find more sponsors to put more life into the whole.
Last year I tried to get sponsorship from the company I am working for and was close to it, when our COO announced to leave. Since he was my main person for sponsoring, I have to re-start to find the right person to talk to.
I am convinced especially in these tough times, there are ways to sponsoring and create win-win situations.
Cheers,
Thomas
IMANTS AND CHARLES
I’m no prude but sometimes you fellows seem to imagine you’re in some locker room shootin’ the shit with your buddies. The staple business was really inappropriate and a big turnoff to the women who also call Burn their home. It’s cool to disagree and post your arguments here but please lighten up on the boytalk, OK? Thanks.
Patricia
Ideas in context of BD’s work in the pharmaceutical areas.
http://www.bd.com/
Research/Diagnosis.
How do they work to find the medicine which finally heals deseases like TB?
i.e. the early phase to find the desease to fight and why
the research work to analyse current things and create the new. trials, errrors, failures.
bringing transparency into the massive efforts the researchers take to fight TB, AIDS, and many more.
Clinical studies.
Each medicine has to go certain steps. At some point, trials with humans take place. So called double-blind studies, where neither the doctor nor the patient knows if this patient uses the medicine or some placebo.
Following the patients how they live, why they include themselfs telling their story ..
These are just ideas. May be BD will hesitate, because it could tell the competition how they work. Transparency is not always appreciated. Because also in research copyright has its role, meaning a lot of money.
Another idea may focus the investors to BD.
I do not believe the only motivation to invest is to earn money. There are investors who think beyond this. They want to support healing. Humanity. Telling their stories might be very interesting, too.
DAH – are these ideas too abstract, to vague?
he he…helloooo Burn…goodmorning Vietnam..
1:19pm in grecolandia…a sunday before easter sunday for the local lambeaters…
wondering of what Low definition movie should i make today..
laughing…
To ALL,
Regarding copyright: the American Society of Media Photographers (ASMP) will be holding a Copyright Counts panel discussion in NYC on April 21 -Copyright and the New Economy, TimesCenter, 242 West 41st St,New York, NY 10018 https://asmp.org/education/event/register?venue_id=295 – Their Registration Counts program is traveling the US over the next few months. These programs are free. https://asmp.org/asmp-seminar-registration-workshop Look over the list and find a city close to you and sign up and GO!
Theres a story here maybe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/03/business/syringe-manufacturer-settles-claim-of-market-manipulation.html
I wonder if they will want to sponsor that one.
Then we could maybe look for big oil to sponsor a story on the rape of the niger delta.
Burger clown guy on super size obesity culture.
Maybe get the Klan to sponsor a story on the need for racial harmony in the deep south.
no?
just a thought :)
as it happens………… http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm
JOHN GLADDY…
sponsorship is indeed tricky…and if you were to dig in deeply to all the companies who have graced the pages of the newspapers and magazines where our work has been supported, i am sure we could find some flies…i am sure even the finest museums in the world have received donations from benefactors who if we were to seriously look at their cv, we might find a knot or two…for sure we must scrutinize….and really really think about your point…we must always think about how our work could be misused misinterpreted etc when funded by a large corporation and perhaps used as corporate or government propaganda…this discussion is wide open…
i.e….what would happen for example if Toyota were to sponsor Glenn on his work with the aborigines?? a logical sponsor since Toyotas are used extensively in the outback and the company has generally been regarded as a clean successful company…now scandal… poorly designed brake and accelerator systems….systems that have killed people….at the same time Toyotas and other 4 wheel drive vehicles have brought food and water and medical supplies to thousands of the world’s disadvantaged when cut off by either geography or natural disaster or war…does Glenn take Toyota money to further his investigation and help international understanding of the aborigines?
cheers, david
THOMAS…
while this is not the place to discuss specific ideas and project proposals (i could miss it here), you are generally thinking in the right direction…but, you do need to think of how your story can be told in the strongest visual way..not every story is a picture story…i do think that BD, who manufacture medical supply equipment, have a strong corporate component where they do want to support contemporary documentary photography..they would like to be a part of discovering the next great documentary photographer…a young JN…in any case , we will set up a system here on Burn where you can submit your well thought out proposals…
IMANTS…
what exactly is your suggestion for copyright and intellectual property reform?
i do not see how large mainstream publishers gain from strong individual copyright laws…they sure as hell try to get rid of them whenever possible…it is a constant battle….i have never heard of any publisher who was in favor of strong copyright laws intended to protect the photographer…they may back down under pressure, but most want to maximize content dispersal and re-sales for their own profit and cut off the revenue sharing by the content providers…
if Burn Magazine was a well endowed profit making company and did not compensate photographers published here, then that to me would be a grievous infringement of artistic rights…some could “gift” their work if they so choose, but they should have the right to decide…i.e. you will soon be asked if your work can be published in the upcoming collector print edition of Burn…you may choose to be published or not..if you say “yes”, then you will be compensated since this print edition will be for on demand sale…the photographers will be compensated according to sales price of the print magazine…you own your work…you may waive this right, but you own it unless you waive it for whatever reasons…
it seems to me that work which is copyrighted, and work that is not, both share the public domain stage..in other words i do not see viewers of work as losing anything because the work has legal ownership by the author(or not)…it is all out there anyway…and if an artist or photographer chooses to give up ownership for whatever philosophical reason, then it is only a signature away from reality…it is not a forced issue one way or the other…personal choice rules….
cheers, david
David AH,
Very well said… as if I should expect anything else. I forget sometimes that it may not only be the new or emerging publication photographers who can benefit from an understanding of copyright. If a creative has a factual understanding then he/she can at least make an informed decision about the value of what they create when it comes time to cross that publication bridge. I have listened to far too many unproductive arguments that are based more on emotion than fact on this subject.
Welcome back,
Paul
you do need to think of how your story can be told in the strongest visual way..not every story is a picture story…
It’s been talked about a bit here recently, but I find Bleasdale’s <a href="http://photographerfoundation.com/nepal2010/"“Love in the Time of TB” an example of a story that couldn’t be told effectively with pictures only. And outside of the very best photojournalists working the most focused stories, it’s usually questionable. The current essay about coming home to Madagascar, and most essays on Burn, illustrate what I’m talking about. There’s no way I would know what the artist was trying to say without the text. So there’s got to be some leeway, no? It seems the more important issue, in most cases, is that the text doesn’t support what the photos are saying. Or vice versa.
Sorry, blew the link. Here’s another try.
Lovely stuff, warm and generous words, great images and the connection is clear; here’s to being carried away.
panos–
yep, still with the kids.. :))
when are you coming back for a visit?
Hey David, think what you say is bang on regarding your influence earlier in essay creation. You were instrumental in so many of the essays (including mine) that we worked on in Austin last week – like a great conductor for the orchestra allowing each ‘musician’ to do their thing but elevating and stimulating the performance at the same time. The guidance away from factual, process ridden approaches toward the esoteric, interpretative and emotional was so valuable and this influence is valuable, perhaps critical, at concept stage. With the approach you are planning I m sure you will see a new wave of creativity. Cheers!
I am beginning to understand what dah is talking about now. Sometimes it takes forever to get caught up with all the posts. Good morning all, from Maui. The moon was absolutely stunning last night.
PATRICIA,
Good morning and apologies. Yes, lets not let this devolve into the form many other boy oriented forums become. I just don’t like being equated with FOX news commentators.
RE COPYRIGHT:
Somebody above had a good point about choosing which battles to fight. If you can’t discern that then you can end up a quivering angry bitter mess (and I’ve seen it happen). I feel no need to go after fan websites that use my work (esp if they credit) or homemade youtube videos, etc. It does cross the line when a watch company starts using a copyrighted published image of mine for promotion without even asking: yes it’s a small company with no money (aren’t they all :)). It would have been simple to ask and we probably could have ended up with a good mutual working relationship, money or no. It’s not always about money – exposure etc can be just as important. Anyway, I could have thrown a lawyer and a year of my life at them and maybe come out ahead. Instead I just read them the riot act, politely, got a little out of it – and then discovered they were still using the image! I left them a really nasty nasty call and that was that. My point being that it wasn’t worth losing sleep and lawyer fees over but worth making them stop.
So Imants (and Bob), if a buddy of yours was to call saying, hey, cool seeing your image on, say, so and so’s surfboard (for lack of a better example), without you knowing the first thing about it, would you go, “hey that’s fantastic! I hope they also make t-shirts and use it as a billboard. Would be nice if they got me a few $ and some samples but I won’t sweat it.” Somehow I doubt it. Now I know there’s not much money to be had there, but it’s more a matter of respect for another’s work than anything else. A token can go a long way. It’s also about the values you represent as a photographer/person. Maybe you wouldn’t want the work to represent so and so company, $ or no.
I do agree that photographers (everybody for that matter) need to change and be flexible with the times. A lot of photographers thought they would retire on stock photography (you know model talking into cell phone) back in the early 2000’s when that was hot. But along came the crash and the advent of penny stock and for a lot that has dried up. Time to move on. But own your work. Yes, Bob, in the moment it’s best to just work and not worry so much about the future. But someday that future will come and you just might be “oh shit.” You never know. And everybody’s experience is different.
Okay, back to the topic. What was it? :)
Hey, obviously too much time on my hands this morning. So in homage to Panos’s little day-to-day projects (which I enjoy and wish more of you did stuff like that) and Brazil, particularly Bahia, and Sunday mornings in general–I made this. Warning, contains content, both explicit, implicit, and audible. May be nsfw, nsftfofh, nsftifs, nsfysig, and nsftwasoh.
Thanks Michael. Early here and drinking coffee watching your little clip made me smile.
Waiting for the water to boil to pour into the french press, I noticed the oven mitt on my hand and with the copyright discussions still in my mind I wondered who made the first oven hand mitt. Because now everyone and their dog (Martha Stewart for one with her many dogs) make and sell oven mitts. I can see the little housewife maybe back in the 50’s designing one for herself and giving them away as gifts, never even imagining where she could have taken it if she had gotten a copyright.
Like I said, it is early!
Lee.. but.. nobody has gone to the little housewife, taken her mitts, and said: these were mine, not yours..
AUDREY…
it was a pleasure to work with you on your parents project…a delightful collaboration to be sure…
BOB …IMANTS
just to elaborate a bit (since my flight was canceled AGAIN)…and to add to what Charles wrote…please remember one can keep copyright on their work, but this has nothing to do with whether or not you exercise this right to monetize your work…equating copyright ownership to being “money hungry” is a total misrepresentation of why photographers should own their work…i give away my pictures all the time for the right reasons…benefit auctions, school use,student thesis use,portfolio books,internet use, pro bono exhibitions, gifts, etc etc…i am very surprised that either one of you would possibly have any argument against photographer rights…as i said, if you own it , you can always give it away…if you do not, it will be taken away…simple as that…
i doubt either one of you has signed a piece of paper waiving your legal artistic ownership…so, you own your work outright….keep it, then do as you please..
cheers, david
Eva I don’t know; the era of the time certainly would have condoned it. I totally believe in rights to my art. I give it away a lot, mostly actually.
I find that those restrictions I impose when I allow someone to use a photo are forgotten and there doesn’t seem to be any recourse except legal action which goes against the grain. Are the infractions harmful to me as an artist to have a friend use one of my photos as a profile photo on Facebook and her webpage? I could say yes, she continually forgets to give photo credit, which is my only restriction with one particular friend. Even when I worked for a filmmaker on a shoot for a non-profit it took months to get the paper signed and then he didn’t use the photographs out of some kind of spite. And this is a person who would never allow his films to be used without his authority and/or payment.
However, those magazines that have published my photos have done it properly and the exposure I received for the brief time the mag was in circulation produced a couple of good leads.
I like DAH’s advise, keep it, then do as you please. That suits me perfectly.
David;
Regarding people dropping out of projects; I think party of the problem is that they seem such a good idea at the time, but take so much energy, time and even dollars to sustain. For some maybe the thought is better than overcoming the hurdles when undertaking it?
I’m now 12 months into the kids project and planning to shoot it for another 12 months (til the end of next March-our summer) and ramp up the shooting to a higher level during the year. The most difficult aspect for me has been trying to shoot it around paying work.
However a close second would be that you seem to do a lot of shooting, but haven’t actually completed anything yet! I’ve often thought about shooting a quick 3-5 day essay so I can actually feel that I’ve started and finished a project. But I know that if I can spare that time away I’d end up shooting the kids project anyway!
Plus; it’s also a bit scary knowing you have invested so much in a project that hinges on your own vision to make it come together. Often it seems like a game of shadow boxing; and of course you never catch up!
It’s certainly a roller coaster ride of ups and downs, guessing and second guessing! But I do feel that it has pushed my work further along than I could have imagined! Too much invested to give it up now…. To obsessed to give it up now too…
Anyone else have thoughts on their long term projects?
Cheers
“He who wants a rose must respect the thorn.”
Persian Proverb
Can I dance now???
Dance your heart out!!! :-)
hehehe, this one is brilliant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ScWu7pG7r0&feature=player_embedded
Lee, I think all is fine as long as it’s YOU deciding giving and not others taking away..
Ross, have to say that I’m not a photographer, my paid work has absolutely nothing to do with photography, but it allows me to keep on going with my longterm projects.. one I hope to finish this summer, the next one not before late Fall 2012.. every now and then I’m tempted to just bin everything.. nobody would care, or even notice. So to have somebody to share with the pics, the ideas, kick your butt, can make a difference.. but I don’t know if it’s the same for professionals..
ROSS
I’ve just looked at your work on Photoshelter and am BLOWN AWAY!!! God, man, you are REALLY doin’ it. Especially the color shots in those nightspots. WOW!!!!!
Patricia
Patricia; Thanks for the kind words, still gotta keep raising the bar though… :-)
The copyright issue goes beyond a bunch of photographs, articles , logos, intellectual property,DNA, buildings etc all can come within the copyright banner. There is even a company that wants to copyright a very popular shade of red. For photographers eventually the content aware tool may become a must have too along with the shutter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aEp1oDOI&feature=player_embedded#
Most of you are worried about yourselves and rights grabbing your images, but so called rights grabbing is extending to every aspect of our lives, wait till there is a earnest effort to grab rights to your image content whether it is accidental or not.
How have most got away with stuff under the guise of post modernism
The Postmodern is described as:
A world that brings challenge/doubt/suspicion/scepticism to the assumptions
Artworks as texts that achieve their power and meaning through intertextuality. Intertextuality refers to other texts rather than the individual, society or structure for meaning. Artworks may be thought of as configurations of previous texts that mimic, appropriate and reinterpret other ideas in art to reveal paradoxical and hidden assumptions about what art is.
Artists as challengers of the prevailing views about what is of value in art, and who use parody, irony and satire to expose power assumptions.
Eventually Campbell’s soup may decide that Andy’s pre postmodernist work http://images.google.com.au/images?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&resnum=0&q=campbell%27s%20soups%20Andy%20Warhol&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi does not fit under the “reinterpretation” banner and grab all rights to the work and demand that it is destroyed as it is detrimental to the companies image.
Now with that shade of red……….
DAVID/ALL :))
let me try to elaborate/clarify a bit more. It was very late at night and i was doing a sequence edit for my essay and jumping around, so let’s see if this makes more sense.
I am ABSOLUTELY behind and concerned about artist’s rights, particularly with regard to their rights. Im an original signer of the Oprhans Bill petition and i wrote to my former congressman and senators offering my opinion on that looming legislation. Also, I a writer. So, i’ve got double interest and concerns here. I’m a bit worried about, for example, Google’s digitalization of all books and trying to wrap my head around that and spend alot of time with a friend of mine who is a filmmaker (who hates copyrights for imagery) and novelists (where he has found himself in a conundrum). Like me, Mike Hoolboom writes and makes imagery and we’re often trying to figure this one out.
Also, like Tolstoy, i dont believe in the idea of ownership of something for posterity’s sake. He gave away his copyright, at least he tried, of his work. Like music, i feel artistic work belongs to the world and should be shared. the problem, as Charles and others have raised, has to do with who benefits materially. I am not troubled that others benefit financially from my work. Shit, like i said, i publish photographs in magazines that dont ‘pay’ me, strictly speaking. but the personal, artistic and spiritual benefit I received from my relationship here at burn has been both invaluable and priceless. Same with my new essay to be published next week: the relationship that i’ve built with them and i am sure the benefit of what will happen once people see this work and read the text (yes both are long!) will benefit me tangibly. and as i said, above all my only material concerns are how i can earn to provide for Marina and Dima including whatever i have to give dima when i die, and most of what i will have materially will be my life’s work: photographs and books. I think it is a necessary right that all artists retain control of what they wish to do with their work….I’m not sure yet how much that has to do with copyright…because one can always transform, reconfigure.
remember what Duschamp did to Leonarda?….remember cathy acker’s books…and remember what lots of young mash-up photographers/musicians/artists do with imagery now…they use, without permission, to make new things…
so, my point is a simple one. Photographers must be ahead of the curve: think forwardly. How can photographers best benefit from the changing landscape of technology and law. To me, it begins with an old idea: art is about transformation, including transformation of the self. So, even if i keep my copyright (and i always do by the way :) ), there will be a time (now, for example) when the rights of that concept will disappear amid change. I mean, i already know blogs that have shown my work without contacting me, and i know someone (my son) who onced used one of my images without permission ;))..and i have photographed magazines and newspapers without asking…photographed movies for my own art (you’ll see next week) without asking the filmmakers permission to use their imagery…’cause i’m transforming and absorbing their work into my own to make it my own…and that will happen to our work too…and so be it…that’s life, that’s art….so, i gave up the fight, now instead i think elsewhere, how do i keep forward making things and creating relationships that will ensure that i have a livlihood….
but the world of book making, at least book writing, is still uncertain…there will be books sold that the writers receive no money from (happens now, when i write something and the magazine receives benefits), so in one sense it’s a losing proposition, unless we ourselves transform….
that being said, i think each photographer themselves must maintain the right to decide for themselves and to have control…even if that control is an illusion…I think and believe that David and Charles position is an understandable one…and I know that bill allard did not retain copyright for most of his life’s work, but i also thing that bills income and bill’s family future will still benefit from his life’s work, maybe just in ways that are not yet tangible….
it’s just that technology and new generation has eclipsed older thinking…and even if you retain rights, i am not sure they’ll be enforcible….that right hold is partly an illusion…i say that as a father who has a 15 year old son….by the time Charles’ beautiful daughter grows up, who knows we’re will be…..
ultimately: decide for yourself and support one another….in whatever way that works..
anyway….gotta run…this is for a chat over drinks
hugs
b
Charles :)))
i know kids who sell t-shirts already by downloading images, silkscreening and away they go and dont contact the photographer…and think for a moment about Che….imagine Guerrillero Heroico….how much did he retain or ever get…i see art students making these shirts…it’s just part of the landscape…and for me, it’s about the bigger picture…actually, no i personally wouldn’t get upset if people were profiting from my pics or my words (they do already, trust me) without reimbursing me…not because i dont want to be honored and paid for my work (i do) but because it’s a losing battle (i can tell u horror stories about china for example, having friends in the art world/photo world in Hong Kong and Beijing)….as a teacher who sees lots of stuff from taiwan, hk, beijing, and photographers would have heartattacks…
for me, it’s simpler: what is the way that i can retain artistic control over my work so that i can figure out how to use it to earn something…and to me, it’s a simpler equation: i cannot be worried about how others use the work, appropriate it, but how i can use it now and forward…
make sense?
ok, big hugs brother…about to watch into the wild again with Marina ))
hugs
bob
so called rights grabbing is extending to every aspect of our lives…
Okay, but I think where people are confused is about where you stand. Is the fact that rights grabbing is extending into every aspect of our lives — in your opinion — a good thing, a bad thing, or simply so inevitable that you don’t think we should worry our little minds over it?
Interesting point though about the soup can. There are no doubt some grey areas. Pictures of architecture are an example for me. So many are essentially detailed reproductions of someone else’s creative work. I’m not sure how much profit is made from those type of photos, and architecture tends to be in public view, but if I understand what you’re saying, you are probably right that there’s reason to fear (or rejoice, still not sure how you feel). If there’s profit to be had in doing away with the concept of public space, then I trust supreme courts the world over will soon be deciding in favor of corporations. The more interesting argument will be how they manage to decide that individuals can’t use any images while at the same time dictating that corporations can do whatever the hell they want.
Michael I never stated not to worry about it you have said that not me, what I am saying it is a big issue and full of a whole lot of problems. eg When I put some textbooks together there were people who wanted anywhere between US$1 and US$10 per image per book…….. the text sold for $14.95. So lots of compromises with content and learning have to be made, on the flip side some people said just use it.
…….. now back to the practical and interesting stuff, I am going to print screen stuff on burn along with http://www.economicswithaface.com/images/Mar05/ww1color2.jpg and http://www.webjet.com.au/
make an essay called “what the …..(being nice) happened to the aesthetic cannibal” and re post it on burn. Now if David chucks a wobbly (grin chuckle grin) I will post a link and become the first to be banned from burn?
now one for the sure footed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ScWu7pG7r0&feature=player_embedded
People are forever using my photos for things without my permission – as the subjects for paintings, scrimshaws, their facebook pages and, yes, on occassion, t-shirts, too. Mostly, Alaska Native artists and I just say, ‘oh, well, I would never have been able to do this stuff without the help and good will of the Native people, but I do like it when they actually ask permission and at least ackowledge my photograph along with their own signature.
I’m in Nantucket, where my Gift of the Whale show opened yesterday and I put on a slide show. It went well and was a great experience. Anyone who is curious can find it on my blog, shot, as usual, with my Canon Powershot s90 pocket camera.
On Thursday, April 1, I will present the same basic slide show at the Alaska House in New York and it would really thrill me if at least one “Burnian” were to show up and introduce her/himself.
The Nantucket show entry:
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2010/3/28/the-nantucket-whaling-museum-the-show-looks-good-my-presenta.html
i do understand the philosophy behind the orphan works bill, which is in line with imants views..
it is not a fresh argument within late modernism…
coleslaw being late modernism, though, it is good to know that carrots and cabbage and mayonaise have gone into it.. it’s the carrots moral right.
it is correct that some kind of development is overdue to free up the attitude towards creating within a context of other artworks.. yet it is not just about money in terms of copyright, as i think others have coverd well.
there has to be a protection for origional creators and an acknowldgement which does not actually only benefit them – acknowledgement also benefits those who desire to research and build .. move forward..
i’d personaly rather know about the guy who took the WW1 photo you are using than guffaw over the intellectual cleverness you display in using it.
a great deal of what i hear within late modernist music is derivative.. from the simple ‘funky drummer’ loop to the less known ‘amen break’ break (from which the entire drum and base scene grew).. the tracks which use the beats hold everything of the origional track.. same ol funky drummer vibe.. most of it is appropriated crap.. while some of it is enormously beneficial to developing music scenes.. as the amen break was to hip hop and drum n base.
drum and base is a valid evolution of music.. a textbook exercise in late or post-moderism.. yet who really wants to see the creators of the amen break living without, while those who snatched the sample go on to live with? including those who repackage and sell the break in digital tool packages for producers?
this is the amen break.. and an interesting talk by nate harrison..
and you know – any lover of hip hop or drum and base is bound to want to know more about ‘the winstons’ who, arguably, invented drum and base on the b side of a record in the late 60’s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac
it’s really easy to pick things apart as is being done with copyright – yet without the input of some solution it does come across as just a thrashing effort toward ‘hip’ e-anarchy.. and discussion faulters..
the art world is to complex to tie it up in copyright, yet it is also too fragile a life for artists that do not teach or write textbooks, to simply throw out all artist control.
attempts to abuse copyright laws to protect a shade of red are unlikely to be successfull.. yet if it all goes the other way in some reactionary fit, isn’t there a danger of throwing out the baby with the bathwater with regards to our right to own our work?
I have worked with the copyright issue with various groups for some time unfortunately all that can be practically done at the moment is to secure personal copyright and that is a pretty poor solution big picture wise. The main problem with artists, photographers, etc is that if it doesn’t effect personally it is put on the back burner and let to fester ……the result is much as it has happened in the UK a 11th hour reaction http://copyrightaction.com/category/articles/news
With all the egos and the me me me situations it is no wonder artists, photographers are easy pickings for even a hack lawyer. Until that changes it is going to be a uphill battlee.
ps I will let your derogative personal attack pass …………
BOB,
It’s son, not daughter! :)
Anyway, the punk in me has no problem with kids silk screening t-shirts, bootlegging pics for 7″s etc etc but when it comes to a bona fide company using an image without permission to promote their product then it’s an entirely different ball game.
I find that sometimes those who don’t make their sole living from photography are more free and easy about the concept of just giving it away. For example iStock was started by a graphic designer with all of these socialist ideals about access to photography for everyone. He went on to sell out to Getty for millions, leaving a lot of photographers in the dust. And how about that amateur recently who sold a Newsweek cover for $25 (via iStock of course)? Try and support your family on that.
Anyway, DAH summed it up very succinctly and eloquently above (as usual) and Mr Bowen as well.
I’m outta here and will be away from the web for awhile preparing for some more ayahuasca ceremonies next weekend. Gotta clear the head best as can. Best to everyone.
CP
AMEN and hallelujah. The Amen Clip was awesome. The Winston’s didn’t care about the copyright. Corporations were looking to cash in. Corporations seek to use copyright to generate maximum profit as is their legal obligation. When corporations take control of our culture what lies ahead….. As an individual artist we should be honored and privileged to know that something we created could have such an enormous and ultimately positive impact. Whether we personally profit from this seems beside the point, although we all do need to make a living. I think we need to really look at who is benefiting the most from issues of copyright and decide if that worldview matches the one that we want to perpetuate.
Hip Hop for me has been an ongoing personal project so the AMEN break hits home. Without sampling and the creation of innovative forms of expression a whole often misunderstood marginalized sub-culture of America would not have been given voice, challenging the status quo, and demanding their rights; young black men in urban America. This voice and expression of an urban reality with all that comes with it provided a culture around which communities could gather to be themselves and to be recognized as members of their own society. Grandmaster Flash started his first jams in community center parks in the Bronx and attracted young and old and those of different ideologies into a melting-pot of ideas. Grandmaster Flash is considered the pioneer in the art of DJ’n and sampled heavily from James Brown. Hip-Hop has become a cultural and revolutionary movement in the black community, has empowered a disenfranchised generation, and has allowed some to reach out of the projects and create abundance. KRS-ONE a well recognized pioneer of Hip-Hop promoter of peaceful resolutions of inner-city conflict recently wrote a book “The Gospel of Hip Hop” published by Powerhouse which reaches back to the roots of Hip-Hop as a positive cultural phenomenom that as an end goal embodies self-respect for oneself and others and self-determination of a people. Hip-Hop as a cultural force now extends beyond the local communities were it started to an international movement across borders, nationalities and race. It isn’t a question of enjoying listening to Hip-Hop or if it is good/bad as a genre of music. It is not relevant to the broader implications of its existence which was given birth as a result of using unauthorized use of copyright and which encompasses a cultural experience beyond music.
Keep the Fire …keep the windows open…
ROSSY…I danced …along “the kids are alright”…
Opa,opa…do not copy my rights…copy only my lefts…
I LOVE YOU ALLL
P.S Fashion photographer Peter Gowland dies at 93…Spacecowboy change your outfit …:)))
Tell it like it is.
speaking of copyright…
u wont believe this…!!!????
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2010/03/28/photoshop-cs5-contentaware-awesomeness/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20TheNextWeb%20(The%20Next%20Web)
First time I don’t like an essay on magnum agency website. I don’t like Bruce Gilden’s haiti work
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.StoryDetail_VPage&pid=2K7O3RTZUG5S
I don’t think The Rat Story aestethics fit to the people’s disaster.
Anyone will agree or dissagree with me?
12:59 pm in grecolalandia…
on a lighter note i wanna suggest everyone to break FREE…
Free of smoking…and other religions…
i have the proof here..in a science fiction new movie..
Without even having the new version of CS5 photoshop i created
two fictional characters thet going through virtual hell in search of cigarettes..
i copied their copyright and without asking them i exploited their personal moments
to create a fake documentary…
So i made a NEW MOVIE…
The day by day struggle journal continues…
The story is simple..
the PHILOSOPHER DIMITRI and my alter ego are out of tobacco…out of marlboros..
so plz enjoy their odyssey to the local tobacco store…
(rated R)..
now in a theater near you…
Music by Diafana Krina and other sampled and photoshoped in a unique HIP HOP way..
plz watch before YouTube finds out and blocks it..
big hug
“CIGARETTES BEFORE THE STORM”
Panos
Ha ha funny movie, no time to watch all your movies now but will chatch up all when be back at home.
Did you send essay for EPF?
PANOS! :)))))))
‘we fear no storm!’ ;))))))
i LOVE these goddamned movies….this one was hilarious…and so true…i remember those days of thinking, ‘i just need a smoke and the world will be right and good’ :))))…fortunately, kicked that habit, but replaced by other addictions…what’s a philosopher/photographer/writer/husband/dad to do?…
keep em coming…i love love these films….and by the way, from one philosopher to another (dmitri)., your boy got god damn beautiful eyes/face, i guess that’s what real philosophers are supposed to look like…
hugs from marina
running
b
P.S. CHARLES :))))…damn, am i getting old…sorry, your incredibly handsome son! :)))))…more later, maybe, about copyright…but just think of this: a big corporation might make 1,000,000’s, but let’s say 200,000,000 entreprenurial chinese teens, or indian teens, or indonesian, or brazilian or american/canadian , 20 and 30 years old each make 10,000/yr only from stolen copyrighted material, do the math…that’s what i mean, it’s a loosing battle and the demon aint the corporate monster, they’re slow and slow whitted and stupid…so, really,, this is a practical matter to me too, as a guy whose family DOES earn their money from art/writing…but, well…gotta run….shit to do before thursday….hugs
marcin..;) unfortunately i spent my last $25 on fine tobacco…
bob..;)
Panos,
The best way to spend the 25$ :)
frank – well said..
and the point is that krs, goldie et al were able to create new forms with copyright just as it was..
imants – i agree that the issue is hardly being discussed.. it wasn´t really being discussed even here at first as it is such a sensitive issue – which ever side of the fence you fall on.
11th hour decisions are coming across in the uk and us very badly – seeming ´sneaky´ for want of a better phrase..
and as charles says – those who´s sole income is from photography have much more to loose.. agreed that in time whatever will be will be, yet ego and bullishness on either side is not a constructive force..
what is? i don´t know.. i just enjoy what i do..
Marcin, what do you mean “The Rat Story aestethics”?
civi –
thanks for letting us know of the passing of Peter Gowland. How did you hear about it? Six more years and he would have made 100..this was a man who loved photography and cameras even in his later years – up early every morning to answer emails, still working to do repairs on his incredible custom designed Gowland cameras (http://www.petergowland.com/camera/index.html) and a great sense of humor. I own the 4X5 GOWLANDFLEX, which I used for soem of the dark light portraits. Thank you Peter…
this issue of Hip-Hop and sampling is a prime example, just as now music mashups, or before that russian avant-garde’s use of collage in the 20/30’s and an entire spectrum of cinematic tradition, not to mention the notion of story telling, involves the swallowing of others work, not as theft but as inspiration appropriate, the riff in a jazz movement, and hip-hop’s essential understanding that it’s all about story telling is critical to my personal understanding and development with regard to copyright…through in the fact that late tolstoy has been a critical point of thought for me (or at least some of his ideas, but surely not all, vis-a-vis his conservativism about what is art, for example which is frustrating) as well as an philosophical and spiritual understanding of what is the way to live properly and simply…
it seems, to me, that we must be concerned, or rather, should be concerned with simple matter, when it comes to the material and practical way to live. Since we need to earn money to live, and since there yes are some of us whose income is derived from our work, it is a critical issue, but for me there are more elemental issues. We, again i emphasize this point, must think forward, rather than resist inevitabilities, we must look forward. as a photographer/writer, who once publically faught with private and foto8 (i mistake i believe now) for getting photographers paid, i realize that the issue is not as straightforward. The ability to use work, the freedom of both exchange of ideas/information/work is critical to a reasoned life, and to the integrity of the live lived making something. I agree that folks stealing othes work for profit is a terribly depressing and disconcerting thing, but it’s part of the world (history) and this has been to some degree accelerated with social networking/www etc. I do worry about the group think mentality and the social network/viral/mashup behavior of the world/web now…as a writer and photographer it frightens me occassionally…but, i am not that, philosophically speaking, concerned about the ownership of my own work in perpetuity…i want to make work now and want to be able to control/decide how i use that now, but this doesn’t prevent others, even companies, from using work…anyone watch the Apple presentation for tablet?…u think all those photographers got paid or signed released for that presentation and money making deal….hell no….
clearly, for me, it’s important that each person think clearly about how it is they wish to deal with the shifting landscape of the web and content and collectivization…i mean didnt we all once make ‘best of’tapes…then burned cd’s, dvd’s, now make vids and presentations…i mean, shit, even here we’ve used music to accompany work shown here, at projections/festivals presentations…
the truth is that many get scared when they worry about their work, their $$, but rarely think when it comes to the use of others…and i guess, ultimately, that’s where i sit…about awareness….that while im not all that interested in the big love-in of the web as some discuss, an extended digital haight-ashbury/woodstock of free love and free ideals, but i do embrace the power of dissemination..and with that comes sacrifices and realizations….
so how to transcend all that….hip hop is absolutely one model (for me) of the key…it’s been corporatized for sure, and often exploited to an absurd degree, but within that there is still lots of space in which for rappers and producers and slams to not only work but to thrive…i do believe that photographers have this ability too….it’s why from the beginning i’ve been so postive and supportive and worked my ass off to help in my own small way David and Anton’s vision of Burn succeed….
there are ways out of this dark forest, but the path must be seen by vision and determination, not by looking back….
ok, gotta fly
hugs
bob
Michael,
I mean “the rat story” have very accurate aestethics for story about the west communities not about Haiti’s tragedy.
http://inmotion.magnumphotos.com/essay/rat
I am curious how do you see (or not see at all) this problem.
Bruce Gilden is great photographer but for me he wrote his own story about haiti. I am not sure I am able to say wht I mean exacly.
some days i think i should just photograph dogs and leave it at that.
Marcin, thanks. Don’t see much connection at a glance, but your question merits much more than a glance. Don’t have time right now, but will try give it more thought tonight. I, too, am interested in what I think you are talking about. Putting our personal stories on other people’s tragedies. Parachute journalism. Western pov where it doesn’t apply, or at least go deep enough. I very much like the narrative idea of the rat story. It’s a bit more sophisticated in a literary kinda way than the typical photo multimedia piece. Or do I even know what a typical photo multimeia piece is? I’ve seen quite a few but have no idea to what degree they are representative. I’d think the rat story strategy could work for something like the Haiti photos, but of course it would depend entirely on the story. Sometimes our own cultural context is all we’ve got. Doesn’t mean it can’t be enlightening.
P.S Fashion photographer Peter Gowland dies at 93…Spacecowboy change your outfit …:)))
emcd,civi
Gowland was an original. His glamour and nude work was classic un-pretentious cheescake, superbly executed.
I met him about 1985 when he gave a seminar to members of our photographers assoc here. A delightful man. He was also a tinkerer, besides those wonderful Golwlandflexs, (there was even an 8×10 model I believe), he made a pocket 4×5 camera that weighed only a couple of pounds.
Marcin
I have to agree with you.
http://www.petergowland.com/camera/
One more book to buy.. one day I’ll get broke:
Stephan Vanfleteren ‘Future Simple’
ALL:
On Saturday, May 15th, we will be teaming up with the New York Photo Festival for Slideluck Potshow XV. The projection will take place outdoors, in Dumbo, Brooklyn beneath the Manhattan Bridge Archway – an epic public space that just reopened after nearly 20 years. Naturally, the theme of the show will be Bridges. Keeping in the spirit of the Festival, we will be bringing in some of New York’s Finest to help curate the show: David Alan Harvey (National Geographic, Magnum, Burn,) Jae Choi (The Collective Shift,) and W.M. Hunt (Hasted Hunt Kraeutler, SVA.) Submissions will be accepted until April 15th, and information can be found here. And to truly localize the potluck dinner, we plan to incorporate members of Brooklyn’s lively culinary community and sustainable food movement.
http://network.slideluckpotshow.com/events/slps-xv-new-york-city
In the above, We is Slideluck
THE WHITE LINES…
In greece every easter there is another custom…
People paint everything (they can) white…
white lines..white homes..white fences..white this..white that…
Not only for cleansing (definitely not for beautification )..
but also to exorcise Evil and welcome Good…waiting for the resurrection..
in the MOVIE (link below), plz watch one more real story..
my own very personal Exorcism..I wasnt feeling good this morning…
Everything was spinning..and then the Priest found me..(didnt help either)..
Discover below how i manage to exorcise the bad spirit that had me down..
All captured in the movie below…My testimony..click:
THE WHITE LINES
(Movie is rated R)
Bob, Erica, anyone … I’m interested if anyone out there has made any ripples with extremely large format photography, i.e. in the realm of feet, not inches. Boat builder friend and I have been discussing building or converting a travel trailer into a camera, and portable lab, with a lens from one of the huge cameras they once used to shoot newspaper layouts. He’s also an 8 x 10 photographer. I’ve heard of this done with pinhole but have not seen any of the work … so anyone doing “huge format photography”?
tom..see http://20x24studio.com/ like what Mary Ellen was doing with polaroid…
also this: http://www.lotusviewcamera.at/cameras/lovica_20x24_e.html
and a fun thread: http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00UrwC
Tom…
Haven’t tried it myself, but other people have used roll paper for similar projects… you could experiment with litho/ortho film in roll form too I suppose… for my 8×10 pinholes I use medical x-ray orthochromatic film but haven’t tried any larger sizes yet…
David,
I have just sent you an new email, if you have a moment to look at it… thank you very much.
all the best, audrey
hmmmn..better convert that trailer : http://www.ebonycamera.com/cam/main.SV2024.html beautiful traditional film 20 x24 view camera =$24,000 – maybe you could just buy the lens?
Tom…
Since you’re not talking for pinhole though, a major obstacle will be to keep the photosensitive material—film or paper—flat… another way to go could be to use one of those liquid emulsions… they have very low sensitivity though, so in the XL format that would translate in extra long exposures…
Tom there is a guy doing this with a truck, i came across his blog ages ago, think he was from san francisco….. If i remember rightly he was blogging about the build and process…
cheers
ian
Tom you could look at this http://www.cameratruck.net/Site/Landing.html
from Ian’s link above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC3Tu9JxI3g
amazing!
Hey! Thank you everybody … looking at links. All very helpful. We have the lens, so we would build around that :))) Thinking about building this from the ground up (or trailer frame actually) and incorporating actual movements into the design. We’ll see … funny, we just met in a woodworking class on Vardo construction so maybe we’ll come up with a gypsy wagon camera :)) I think glass negatives are out … :)) Thank you all again, that was fast!
Tom. Thodoris hit on agood point ie: how to keep the film flat. Im guessing that wet plate would be the way to go. Sounds like an absolute blast. Keep us posted.
hip hop…………. dadaism ……….the avant-garde …….. open source programming…………….. the burn carpet( used to sweep we don’t want to know about it stuff under) ……… jazz……..open source programming……
yes…viva dng..open source…
have people seen the burn (brief) mention on ny times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/business/media/30photogs.html?hpw=&pagewanted=all
It is an interesting article including perspectives on the fall of certain parts of the media industry which used to feed photographers and photographic agencies. They are in demise. Their model is a dying breed.
The open source programming analogy Imants suggests is a good one which should be considered by all forms of media production.
Open source happens simply because it can. Don’t try to understand it any more than that. At it’s core a capable computer programmer who writes 10 lines of code during a paid work with a proprietary software company is no better than a capable computer programmer who writes 10 lines of code simply because he/she can.
The NY Times distinguishes between the amateur and the professional photographers simply as being the reassurance of being able to produce on demand. For the rest of the world’s emerging media requirements there is the choice of thousands (perhaps millions) of amateurs (read, untrained happy go lucky, point and click warriors, happy to get a buck from an image) – the only difference is no exclusivity of concept or creativity.
I liked the reference in the NY Times to ‘Burn’ as being the upstart bucking the trend of media outlets going out of business. But there is a reason why Burn works at the moment and that is because the vast majority of it contributors are open source photographers contributing the 10 images they produce simply because they can. They are capable and wonderfully creative and captivating.
DAH, I presume your endeavours in this regard (Burn) are a labour of love driven by a desire to give and bravo for being this great open source photography leader and guide (even if you’ve never thought yourself as such).
Sticking with the open source analogy. There are many companies and outlets which make money from open source – BUT the important part is that the model is different than the traditional software and systems vendor and the expectation is different. That is where Burn imho has the possibility to attract the different model. In this new age, the purveyors of open source are highly unlikely to become the mega rich billy g or larry e. But for talent, concept and creativity, there is likely to be a desire for the most beautiful art of them all, that which is beautiful passionate and heart felt photography.
In light of this, the issue of copyright is a technical conundrum/quandary/dilemma which needs to evolve into an artistic relationship with the art’s great creator without being a restraint on liberation of such artistic works. Every great artist deserves their fortune – just some make fortunes in different ways.
Enjoying the discussion folks.
Cheers,
T.
Thanks T you have said it better than I can……… all I wanted to do is bring these issues to light again .
Shorter Tommy: If you’re going to get raped anyway, might as well lie back and enjoy it.
Not nearly as ugly and wrong as the original analogy, but ugly and wrong for the same basic reasons.
Working on open source is a choice.
Demise of the press? Here is an interesting (and long) analysis…
http://gigaom.com/2010/03/28/what-does-the-future-hold-for-newspapers/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OmMalik+%28GigaOM%29
The kids of today will just walk straight through the walls, mums and dads will thank the kids………….. those kids will probably build walls later in life just for the next lot to dance through their walls. No use telling them not to so or that it will haunt them in the future that’s like telling them that God will extract his revenge and damn them in hell or that the Russian mafia will destroy the net….. threats don’t work. We have to remember that it is the kids’ world just as it is ours and we all have to negotiate with one another……… not this unequal compromise the print barons seek
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/business/media/30photogs.html?hp
A Shrinking Path for Photographers
BURNMAGAZINE.ORG mentioned in passing… seems that everybody with a camera on flickr presents an obstacle to pro photographers who struggle to earn a living.
sorry, i see that Tommy mentions this above…
Okay still here, in bed with a cold. Just read both links above and now really depressed. Problem is that jungle and drum and bass, as original and exciting as it was to begin with, soon began to sound all the same, much because of the amen breaks “open source.” When creative outlets decide paying $5 for a stock image is good enough (or cell phone pics for pj) then everything will begin to look the same.
Yeah Burn is great, love vibes all around, blah, blah, but it’s not the end all be all. People still have to eat. Kids may knock down walls or they may just turn to heroin. Take your iPad with your flickr account or Burn essay and show it to the cashier at Whole Foods. They’re gonna say cool photos and still ask ya for your cash.
I think in this discussion there does need to be some seperation of photogrphy issues from say hip hop and software. A blanket copyright law across all mediums might be the crux of the problem as content varies in its source and output.
Totally off subject but pretty amazing — Here is a most realistic simulation of the Sullenberger flight landing in the Hudson River.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tE_5eiYn0D0#t=109
Has this link been posted here before? If so, my apologies…
Patricia
what the NYT article fails to address is that some photographers who speclize are commission not just for the photos – we have contacts, motivation to help and leads in order to do that which amateaurs simple do not have through experience.
i´ve personally seen 8 magazine clients fail in the last 10 years – yet new ones have popped up.. page numbers have skewed in favor of advertising to sometimes 60%.. editorial page photos have gone in favour of an advertising page.. yet my longest standing client increased my fee´s by 50% while i still worked for them.
there is a person behind the camera and in the field of documentary photography it is also the person and their specialization which wins commissions. if anyone can take a shot then anyone can supply it far as i am conserned – if few people can take the shot and put in the extra work around a commission they will always get the work..
isn´t flickr and the like already supplying copyright free images which can be used by artists? for a few dollars there are 10´s of 1000´s of images out there to be chosen from to work with..
royalty free.. could flickr and the 1 usd micro stock not already be deemed as ´open source´?
i´m not sure legislation is needed to bring about that development – and i´ve never had a gripe with flickr..
the ´open source´ idea will only really supply commercial applications i think – as flickr and micro stock already does.
there is no use pretending that the majority of use will come from artists expanding the language and medium of photography.. commercial applications are metaphorically, sometimes literally, only a matter of hours behind what artists are doing these days – and much more prolific… grabbing ideas from degree shows and collages directly.
in the post modern era a solid artist idea is ripped off and sold on before the artist can cough in surprise.
as with the ´amen break´ – and as charles mentions – much of the applications of the 6 second break are commercial.. purely commercial.. rubbish, derivative and repetitive in style.. cash cows for the lazy or easy hooks for commercial creatives.
after a year or two of it´s use it lost it´s edge.. as much of photo montage artwork and perhaps more broadly late modern artwork has.. it´s well and truly stitched up by the Ad World.. illustrators and graphic designers with ´artist´ in their job title are really the ones who would benefit from a blanket copyright change which puts the emphasis on the photographer to ´opt out´ rather than ¨opt in´, as many currently choose to do by not checking the ´copyright protected´ box on flickr.
another point – and perhaps why the winstons did not mind use of the amen break – is that it is 6 seconds of a song.. now .. if someone grabbed a small portion of one of my photos and used it .. changed it significantly.. fair play..
if someone took a snap of obama i had and did some simple rendering, (which i could have done myself), conspired to keep the copyright holder and photographers name quiet, called the red, white and blue results HOPE and flogged it for 10´s of 1000´s – that would not equate to snatching a 6 second drum break to ´explore the medium´.
what i mostly sell are very specific and, in that sense, sought after photos.. a mag will pay me upwards of 600 GBP for a couple of photos of a small and undiscovered music festival.. which i worked as hard to cover as i did to learn my craft in the first place.. it´s not just about my photos – it is about my ability to research and judge the benefit and impact a music event deserves.. my ability to hook people up and move the scene forward.
a couple of years ago i found that a festival, which i did not want to support for various reasons, had uploaded 67 of my photographs to flickr without copyright notice – free to download.. they had distributed my artist pictures to the artists as free to use press shots and distributed widely to magazines as well..
i gave them a cease and desist notice in part as i wanted to sell the images myself and i could not ethically sell that which was being made available for free..
they told me – astonishingly – that the images had passed into the public realm as they had been online for such a long time before i found out..
in other words they tried to keep using the images, claiming they were in the public realm on the back on their own infringement..
if an artist wanted to use a snap for manipulation or experimentation i have never had a problem with it – it is naive though to think that most copyright abuses come from artists developing the medium of photography.. most abuses in my experience come from business more than able to pay.. and i want to protect my right to be paid fairly in accordance with the amount of work i have put into building my archives.. learning my specialization.. and people will always pay..
saying that everything will be free because everyone can do it and find it online is like saying commercial coffee shops will fail because everyone can make instant at home, or take a flask out with them.
i agree that change is on the cards and it will be exciting change – yet i´m not sure it will be that radical nor as damaging to photographers who specialize as some believe..
the more unique your subject / style / aesthetic /connections, the more likely you´ll be to survive through any change which is on it´s way.
you know.. i´m not at all sorry that some hired eye and sub standard snappers are out of business.. or loosing out because they have been lazy or predictable.
another thing the NYT neglects to mention is that burn is a source for fresh photography which is populated by a mixture of people who earn and do not earn from photography – probably skewed in favor of people who earn..
it´s free content is due to the fact that people who earn from photography are already – and probably have always been – passionate enough about their craft to hold the value of the work being seen above the value of wanting recompense for it..
i´d worked with photography for 10 years or more – completed my first long term project of 6 years, exhibited in london and achieved the broadening of knowledge of the subject i thought needed to be addressed – before i earn a bean from photography.. i sank every spare penny i had into my work without expecting money.
in terms of copyright protection to earn a buck i think photographers and artists must be some of the least selfish people out there.. those who begin to gain an income from the work may become more rare – perhaps though they will become more deserving?
our landlord is selling our flat right now – and the snapper who turned up to photograph it was bemoaning how the market for porn had declined to the point that he had to do this instead..
poor boy.. poor boy..
FREEFREEFREE – FREE TIMES FREE..
i´ve up-blog a dated.
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpbigpicture/
OPEN SAUCE
closed content
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpbigpicture/
ENJOY WITH YOUR EYES..
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpbigpicture/
*DO NOT FEED THE WALLETS*
okay enough.
e-nough.
e-no.ugh
Bucking the economic demise of most magazines http://www.monocle.com/
Check it out, increadible print design but also alot of thought has been put into how to make it work on the web. Hence the web experience is very different to the printed piece and not just a regurgitated cut and paste of the physical magazine. Investment in knowledgeable journalists, photographers and videographers makes the content engaging and truely insightful.
As David B suggested above, once you have the talent, the insight and understanding of your chosen field that is what you are hired for. It also enables you as an artist to create pertinent work which you can choose to be recompensensed for if you so desire or if like Immants you prefer to give it away so be it.
I urge you to check monacle out. Interestingly, they are proclaiming to have been able to open a Hong Kong office from the sale of their Tote bags – I believe it is this breaking down of borders/barriers and broad spectrum thinking that will win out. eg newspapers and not just newspapers now, photographers are not just photographers now etc etc…..
ian
or if like Immants you prefer to give it away so be it. cut the bullshit aitken, there is no need to be nasty or is that just your nature?
Imants, there is no malice, it is a fact that if you own the work you can give it away, that is the principle of copyright. I have no insight into the copyright laws in Aus but I suspect as a photographer you own the rights to the image.
I do plenty of photography where I refuse to accept payment, some times I might do some trading of skills or goods. I also give prints etc away.. After all, photography is my living I strive to make my livelyood from my craft. These are indeed interesting times and all models should be considered. I know one advertising photographer who researched, location found, suggested propsals to the ad agency all through searching through Flickr and downloading high res files, he even spoke to some of the flickr photographers to get exact locations and permissions, he got all this for free because of the ignorance of copyright ownership and the eagerness of amatuer photogs, they had no idea they could enforce ownership of their images or even charge for them. This kind of research would have cost thousands a few years ago having to use location finders etc. Do you find this fair? Enterprenerial yes, but fair? Lack of understanding of ownership….
I know we have had spats in the past, let sleeping dogs lie.
Cheers
ian
i had a NIGHTMARE…
Reading the above it seems that im not the only one that slept
on the wrong side of the bed…im not alone…im not the only
paranoid over here…
NEW MOVIE…only 3 minutes ..plz watch and buy…
otherwise im gonna post it free on flickr and getty images
will offer me a contract…u decide..
All the answers here:
enjoy (rated X)
It is the context that you place it in plus what I started was not about giving stuff away it was about what where copyright was and where it needs to go with the advent of multimedia digital communication and how we all can benefit not every person for themselves mentality.
Tom Hyde,
Hit the military surplus yards http://www.gigapxl.org/
Imants, I’m sorry if I’ve missed it, but I still am unclear on where you think copyright needs to go. I think people are arguing with what they think you’ve said, or at least implied, rather than anything you’ve actually said. Could be wrong about that, of course, but still… what are you saying? How should copyright work?
Glad to see my hastily typed analogy to rape didn’t get the drubbing I expected after hitting submit. I guess it was obvious I didn’t mean it as any kind of personal attack. And I think it’s not altogether off the mark. In fact, I think I’ll go farther and posit that we, as a society, have developed something akin to Stockholm syndrome. Not only do we lay back and enjoy it when MegaloMart appropriates our labor; we are thankful for it. We fall in love with our violators. If they toss a nickel on the bed, we’re really happy.
I realize I am open to accusations of hypocrisy here, since I regularly use copyrighted music for my little slideshows. Perhaps, perhaps — there are no doubt some grey areas, many grey areas, but when commercial enterprises steal artists’ work for profit, that is not a grey area. That is theft. Yea, it was a good thing when poor kids in the projects turned other peoples’ riffs into an art form that was uniquely able to express their realities. But Sony or CBS or multi-millionaires like Jay-Z or Diddly Squat use other peoples’ work they damn well ougtta pay for it.
Michael… with you all the way..
We are still struggling with this digital economy bill over here…. slowly slowly catchey monkey
Ian
Michael ..
great analogy..
its Diddy the hypocrite..
not u ,nor your non profit slideshow..
TOMMY…
i think you have summed it all up just about right…thanks
IMANTS…
like Michael, i am confused on what you believe to be intellectual property rights and copyright..definition please….i agree with most of what you say, but then am lost when you then conclude (i think) that the current copyright laws which are designed to protect artists like you need reform….
DAVID BOWEN..
you too have it right…the only thing i want mention is that while Burn is currently an open source for photographers, and is primarily intended as a learning tool, most photographers who are published here report to me that they either have sold prints or gotten commissions or in some way have had a career boost after being published…all photographers here own their photographs and publish here gratis under the current economic clime with Burn as a non-revenue producing entity…however, as you well know, it has been my intention all along to create some sort of economic benefit to photographers whenever i can…the EPF grants can only benefit a few, but at least that is economic support that did not exist before….$35k worth….and if we are able to create more sponsorship, then a few more will gain some support for their projects or secure publishers for their books , which several have done or are about to do…the print edition of Burn will certainly pay photographers who are selected and who choose to be published…nobody is going to pay their rent with this payment , but it will be based on the on demand sales of the magazine…and a few did sell their prints in the two Burn gallery shows…we want to do more…
as you know, but maybe not everyone does, Burn was created as an extension of what i always did anyway…starting with the simple personal diary blog Road Trips evolved into audience based publishing a la Burn….mentoring photographers and helping them see their individual visions realized in the way most suited to them personally has been something i have done always..long before Magnum or Natgeo or books or exhibitions were part of my life…
i noticed early on that many photographers who seemed lost or wanted to move their work forward were simply not seeing things clearly, or were missing the obvious, or just needed a spark to get them moving in the most natural direction…none of my mentoring has anything to do with commercial success…nothing that i do for myself has anything to do with commercial success, including the editing of Burn….i have been able to earn a living with my work, but it is happy circumstance rather than any kind of business planning….everything i do with my own work or with Burn is instinctive, as i am sure you know by now having followed my comments and my actions for a couple of years…
my only reservation now is in being able to fulfill all the requests i have before me…if i pay attention to one photographer, i am leaving out another….and maintaining the balance between mentoring and my own work is a full time job in and of itself…as i told my students in Texas,since i had just literally gotten off the plane from Rio, “i am exhausted and burned out and have only a fraction of my normal energy, which should make this the perfect class”…and it was…because i was “just off the plane” and fresh from dealing with my own street level structuring , agony, storylines, thinking about a book, dealing with editors, planning an exhibit etc etc. i was able to be most helpful i think to this young class in dealing with their own uncertainties etc…so i am not really a teacher…i am just a photographer, fresh from the “wars” who can tell a young photographer “hey, the enemy is over on THAT ridge”….
i could care less if a photographer is a professional or not…i do not try to create professional photographers unless one comes to me with specifically that goal in mind….i am simply interested in good work from every arena…however, professional or otherwise, i do stand behind the rights of photographers to be protected from ravaging publishers or any kind of misuse of their work…laws are needed for rights protection..freedom to do as you please is a natural right…
ok, fresh pot of coffee coming…back soonest…
cheers, david
how the wars can ravage us..
today it´s a damn accountant that has not read an invoice and paid it into a defunk bank account.. defunk 6 years ago..
it is a sign of how complex an issue is, since there are two discussions here at least – the right to view for free and the right to use for free..
the crossed wires may be where friction occurs..
DAVID B…
serious? well, we all have some version of that story…and even at Magnum i think the unpaid debt by even some reputable publishers is on our books as a real number that simply stays a real number…a permanent business loss that would shock you if i gave the uncollected debt number…the problem with photography as a business, and it has always been thus so, is that we deliver our product to a client and then HOPE they will pay us…you do not drive a car off the lot without paying for it first nor get out of the restaurant without paying the bill…photographers generally deliver first, and cross our fingers to get paid later…usually much later!! i have seen many a magazine use my work, collect from their advertisers immediately , then take a year to pay….
on the other point: yes, viewing for free and using for free are two different things….
the restaurant analogy is a good one..
eat now.. pay in 30 days.. or 18 months if you are sony / columbia.
todays issue is that it is showing up as paid on their ledger and they can only pay once..
think i have talked them around.. it´s a much needed royalty payment for the album cover i gave you in london.. tor capas nursery fees.
never was any point in getting angry with accountants.. mistakes are simple things and i´ve made plenty..
now.. hiding cheques in a draw and marking them paid on screen, as one US publisher i know regularly does, is not on.. makes their books look great – mine look rubbish.
Hilarious!!!
A few photos from the bronze foundry where I worked for a while.
http://marcinluczkowski.com/a1/index.html
(hope we still can post a link with photos here from time to time :)
yes Marcin.. :)
it was about time…post more often plz
MARCIN
Very interesting stuff. Gives a vivid picture of your work and working conditions, and rich in visual textures. Thanks for posting the link.
CHARLES PETERSON…
you are right to be a bit depressed…since i hate to be depressed and do not allow myself to go down that road , i try to figure out ways to fix it…your ideas and your help most appreciated…
David B
I expect a new business model will eventually emerge for editorial shooters. More photographers chasing fewer assignments means something has to give.
In the portrait business, those of us still actually making a living are still doing it the traditional way. Small session fee (or free through a promotion), and significant print prices. I do get payment up front by the way, when the order is taken. You just gotta smile, look ’em straight in the eye, and say “how would you like to pay for that”.
The digital revolution has created lots of portrait photographer wanna-bes out there these days. We’ve always had the weekend warriers, but dslrs and that “P” for professional setting on the cameras do such a great job that many more folks are thinking, “hell, I can do this”. You can buy a website template pretty cheap these days, get a business card and bam, your’e in business.
There is a new guy in my local area for example. He’s got a flashy website, blog, facebook, twitter, etc. On his blog he proudly displays $20,000 worth of new gear. His business model is that he’ll do a portrait session for you for $200, put them on a gallery, and let you and who-ever else wants to order them direct from a lab, at cost! Like two bucks for an 8×10. Lucky for him, he has a working wife, and a real job as a pilot.
Copyright is another issue. Portrait photographers have always had people copying their work. Scanners now make that a simple matter. Unfortunately, many of the weekend warriers give their work away on a disc. We do sometimes get asked if we give a disc. I just smile and say no, I’m sorry we don’t. If they ask why, I smile some more and tell them that this is how I earn my living.
DAVID.HARVEY.
DO You have some time soon to look at this edit? . Did it arrive??
Sent links and stuff via burn email but got nothing back confirming(usually sends an automated reponse)
Send again? Hold off for a while? inbox overload :) ?
Dont want to eat into your rest time, just interested if you got the thing really.
I have a skype thing now..I think I am ‘johngladdy’ maybe we could set a time and have a chat..always good to catch up anyways.
Mad busy at the moment, not enough hours to go round….but ive found the off road vehicle I need and am looking forward to heading off into eastern nowheresville in a couple of months, just me and a whole bunch of film…maybe pick panos up on the way.
You still coming to london in april??
JOHN
http://www.youtube.com/cerntv
(thank u Lassal for info)
All, big day today for ALL..
the big experiment started successfully…
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1165534/files/CERN-Brochure-2009-003-Eng.pdf
Soon we will now what is behind “god”..
http://webcast.cern.ch/lhcfirstphysics/
Protons collided successfully ….
GORDON…
i like your business model…certainly works since your customer is also the subject….
in the editorial world, i cannot tell if there are really more photographers chasing fewer assignments…there are fewer assignments, yes, but seems to me there are fewer qualified photographers as well..since the decline of the editorial business, i see fewer photographers seriously pursuing it…sure there are plenty who either fantasize it or sorta want to do it maybe if it involves world travel to their favorite place kind of thing, but i mean serious photographers who can actually do it on demand..not so many really…
JOHN GLADDY..
of course i will skype with you and of course i will look at your work…tomorrow going to be best..
cheers, david
GORDON…
i like your business model…certainly works since your customer is also the subject….
in the editorial world, i cannot tell if there are really more photographers chasing fewer assignments…there are fewer assignments, yes, but seems to me there are fewer qualified photographers as well..since the decline of the editorial business, i see fewer photographers seriously pursuing it…sure there are plenty who either fantasize it or sorta want to do it maybe if it involves world travel to their favorite place kind of thing, but i mean serious photographers who can actually do it on demand..not so many really…if i look at the possibility of funding here on Burn, my list of photographers who could really pull off a commissioned piece is much shorter than you think..sure, sure, lotsa good pictures out there, but making those good pictures on demand and on a specific editorial story still seems to be in the hands of a few…
JOHN GLADDY..
of course i will skype with you and of course i will look at your work…tomorrow going to be best..
cheers, david
I do a little editorial work on occasion, mostly headshots or guy in corner office for trade mags. Those are shots that will never be found in Flickr, though I guess art directors could start asking their subjects for pictures their kids take of them with their Canon DS1 Mk XX’s, or whatever. To give an example of how it goes, art director that sometimes hires me asked if I’d be interested in dropping by and shooting his boss’s office baby shower, for free of course. I said sure. There were art directors there for 10 or 12 other publications, I made them all look good and I’ve already got another little job out of it.
Of course that work is not all that challenging and pays little more than beer money, but point is, who you know is important. I’m confident I can pull off ambitious commissioned work, certainly wouldn’t take a job if I didn’t feel confident, but don’t know enough people in those circles. Gotta get that first break. Anybody out there… out there… out there…? Echoes continue into the vastness, grow softer… softer… softer…
DAH,
Thanks for that. Feeling a bit better this morning as cold seems to be on retreat.
Funny thing is I had one of my best grossing years ever last year and I barely picked up a camera. All licensing and print sales. I was also very busy with new baby and house remodel. Now that that’s pretty much all done (well baby still keeps on keeping on!) I have that feeling of oh god what’s next? I miss shooting but being in this neck of the woods the assignment thing just isn’t happening (it was up until a year ago). So I need to start another project. The one I have in mind will be out of my comfort zone (though nothing dangerous, just cultural) so it’s a matter of making the contacts and just GOING there. I find self assigning the most difficult, esp when it involves walking down the street and not getting on a plane and being isolated from the everyday elements that can distract one. Anyway, that’s what I’m facing. Hopefully work some stuff out with ayahuasca this weekend.
An idea for BURN: laying in bed last night thinking about this Portland print on demand publisher that wants to do a book with me (not sure what yet – won’t jinx it by saying anything till it starts to happen). Thinking maybe BURN should have a section devoted to books by people that have been published on BURN, or at least part of the BURN family. Rather than just dropping a link into Dialogues at some point and hoping people see it you could start a “library” and maybe even do thumbnails of the cover or something. Since the model will be turning more and more to print on demand might be a good resource for some of the photographers here to get their work out.
Good luck with the garden!
MARCIN,
Cool stuff. Reminds me a bit of the work I did for Doc Marten’s.
Best,
CP
Michael… small acorns and all that
Ian
MICHAEL..
be specific…what kind of work and for whom do you imagine? your dream assignment…your ideas for that dream assignment? your link to work which would prove to this “right person” that if she or he unleashes the funding for this work that you are THE right person to do it…the release of money by an editor immediately puts their job on the line…they must know for sure you can do it…you are very well connected…we can put you on to the “right people”…many of these “right people” already read Burn…so, put it out there…burden on you..ball in your court
Talking about a different approach, Marcus Bleasdale’s take:
http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/reportsitem.aspx?id=102102
Michael,
I actually turned down a local ad job last week (well, bidding on it). It would have been fun and decent (not big) money but was not at all the type of photography I do. Very prop and retouch heavy. Plus they needed five set ups and wanted to shoot in a week’s time. No way could I do that with my family arrangement. It’s good to know your limits. I once cancelled a $25K job for a cell phone company the day before we were set to shoot. The closer we got to the shoot the more I realized the agency was clueless and exploitive. Just wasn’t worth it to me. So it’s not all about money. Maintaining your dignity and integrity is utmost.
CHARLES…
yes yes, the on demand book idea is something we have discussed at great length and does not seem so difficult to do…we are going to start with the on demand issue of Burn just to see how it goes..from there i think we have endless possibilities…
Hi DAH,
What happened to the prints exhibited at the burn gallery show last year? sold, destroyed, in circulation somewhere or just laying around? Haven’t heard much about it. If I can recall there was talk about a permanent exhibition space, online sales etc..
Cheers
MARTIN BRINK…
prints destroyed?? please !! the show is hanging in the Burn loft space…we only had two shows for collectors to make purchases..one in New York and one in Washington as reported here on Burn…..and i think we sold about 8 prints…we do have offers for more shows, but managing these shows is a full time job for a someone we do not have…however, we are working on it…i went off to Rio for weeks shooting, and Anton off to Japan for the same, so our time is limited…we will have another Burn loft show, invitation for collectors only, with some of the same prints and some others later this spring or early summer….
Cheers, David
Sorry about that — usual problem with typing faster than thinking.
But since it’s out there, I have some experience with pitching written articles to newspaper and magazine editors but have yet to puzzle out the high-end photo side. For example, I would never expect a publication to provide up-front funding to an unproven writer, much less a photographer. After all, an editor can usually work with a writer and rescue a piece from poor writing, but that is mostly impossible with photographs. Someone in my position, someone who has a background and has done some professional work but is looking to move up in class, would pitch writing an article on spec. That way there is a loose understanding that the magazine will publish the piece if it’s good, but there is no hard/fast obligation. It’s a way of working in between just going out and writing it then trying to to sell it versus getting a commitment,cash advance or on-going expense reimbursement. Also in that case, there is an on-going dialogue between the editor and the writer. Comments on drafts, direction, that sort of thing. Of course the editor will want to see clips, but one shows the clips that are most appropriate for the publication. That’s more or less how I figured the photo side would work, but that doesn’t seem to be the case?
David, yea, I guess I do know people these days, but the way I tend to compartmentalize things, you all are more like people I enjoy having a beer with now and again than people I think of as professional contacts. Yet more proof that networking has never been one of my strengths.
Anyway, got to run… dribbling
Hi all. Just a quick post linking to a video featuring Jonas Bendiksen I found on you tube: “More and more we live in a visual culture (…) it’s not who has the best picture (…) It’s who has the best ideas”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT1IuaC4i5c
This seems to make sense…
Cheers.
Thanks for the update!
Charles, thanks. Not sure if you were referring to the baby shower thing, but I didn’t mean to imply there was anything wrong with that. It was asked as a favor and I was happy to help out. Point was that that was perhaps illustrative of how one gets work these days. Would say more or less random luck or personal connections, but more accurate to say luck and/or personal connections that became possible through hard work.
DAVID. Cool. Have sent you a skype contact invite thingy. Will try to skype you about 6pm your time tomoro.
That good?
John
Another quick reference:
Wired Mag, transforming the magazine experience:
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/xd-inspire/transforming-the-magazine-experience-with-wired/
Stills and video…
So, are we finally experiencing the “end of print”? And with it the end of still photography? Is this the “closing time”? ahhh,stupid idea?
Anyone?
MICHAEL,
Oh no, the baby shower thing is brilliant. Nothing wrong with using our talents to put a smile on somebody’s face. Just referring to you not taking a job if you aren’t confident with it. Nothing wrong with that. Do what you can do (though do push yourself if you can).
CP
Here’s a very interesting blog post by Bob Krist, relevant to the copyright discussion that’s been going on here:
http://www.bobkrist.com/blog/frommers-now-fing-freelancers-and-photo-enthusiasts/
Well worth the read!!
RODOLFO..
i do not think it is end of print nor the end of the still photograph…changes in what these mediums become yes, but disappearance, no….i think fine work in print will be enhanced by the death of print as a mass media presentation…mostly there is junk out there in print if you take in everything that gets printed for mass communication…eliminate that, crank up the limited edition and on demand book market and you will have the finest books and best limited edition magazines ever…more expensive , yes, but finer…
BURNIANS,
This is part of my ESL practice…please …do not take it personally…Enjoy…
THE PROFILE OF MY BURNIANS…
KATHLLEEN FONSECA the Street Fighter,the Sword Tongue
MY GRACIE the Burn Muse
OUR PATRICIA the Courageous
KERRY the Talented
LASSAL the Smiling Power
EMCD the Resourceful
WENDY the Sunshine
LEE the Artistic
AUDREY the Good- natured
EVA the Endurable
KATHARINA the Rebellious
VALERY the Dynamic
VICKY the Honest
KATIA the Warm-Hearted
ANNIE the Fearless
GINA the Crafty
CARRIE the Creative
SOFIA the Lively
JENNY the Outgoing
ANDREAC the Sociable
LAURA the Elegant
AKAKY the Unbiased
ANTON the Visionary
ANDREWB the Kind-hearted
ANDREWSUL. the Approachable
BRIANF. the Enthusiastic
BOBB. the Brilliant
CHRISB. the hard working
CHARLESP. the stimulating
SAMHARRIS the Adventurous
DAVIDB. the Spontaneous
DAVIN the Eccentric
ERIC the Thoughtful
FROGFROST the Honorable
GORDON the Sentimental
GLENN the Witty
HAIK the Trustworthy
HERVE the Debonair
IMANTS the Radical
IAN the Righteous
JIM the Sincere
JARED the Instinctive
JUSTIN the Confident
JOHNG the Persistent
JAMES the Determined
KURT the Logical
LANCE the Brave
MIKEB. the Diligent
MARTINB. the Protective
MICHAELW.the Charming
MATHEWN. the Humble
MICHAELK.the Cultured
MARCIN the Passionate
MARKT. the Organized
MR.VINK the Tolerant
POMARA the Boundless
PANOS the Revolutionary
PETEM. the Serious
PETERG. the Sensitive
PAULT. the Credible
REIMAR the Optimistic
ROSSY the Dedicated
RAFAL the Introverted
SIDNEY the Enlightened
SAMH. the Reflective
STELIOS the Sociable
SEANG. the Ambitious
SPACECOWBOY the Peace,Love and Photography
THOMASB. the High-Spirited
THODORIS the Articulate
TOMHYDE the Fascinating
VIVEK the Energetic
MR.HARVEY the Do As Harvey
from Civi…you know I love you ALLL…BUT …you are so many…you can exchange(if you want):)))
VIVA!!!
DAVID,
I do hope you are right….nothing like a print or a book…
I just had a good week-end shooting…just going over what I did… think I am making progress on my new project…. had the most unbelievable sky on sunday to photograph…almost surreal… while I used to complain about the rain, I am starting to like these Belgium skies :):)… This skatepark I have found is quite special, just overlooking the city… while this is all a bit fresh still, there are few shots that I hope you will find interesting. In any case, I will share with you what I have mid-April even if this is the very beginning… I will need now to find other spots, other areas to photograph and dig more but I am having fun again so this is good… took me a while to get hooked…
Cheers,
Eric
Panos, Sidney, Charles,Thanks guys for the feedback :)
Still working, mixed media, thousands of photos, maybe will have something to show soon.
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
you just have to drop the “i am not a good networker” bit…this is on every editor/curator’s top ten photographer worst excuses list….we have actually had several incarnations of this discussion many times on Burn, but i always forget that new people come in and/or missed the discussion…suffice it to say for the moment is that if you use this for an excuse for why your career is not moving forward at the rate you might like, you are doomed from the outset…
just do the work…i swear, if you do the work , you will get networked…i will personally pick up the phone and call any editor you want…many people here on Burn know well i will do exactly that..so, you ARE networked…
so, what is going to make me pick up that phone? well, i will not do it because i like you or you are a friend…i will not do it just as a favor and you are a regular writer and contributor to Burn…i will not do it because your cousin is a bartender and slips me a drink under the radar…i will only do it IF you actually have the work…now, follow me as i think like an editor for a minute…
let’s be specific…let’s take Coney Island….and let’s pretend that i have 50k to spend on a Coney Island story…a story about condos coming, Nat Park backout, in general a life gone by, the demise of the Coney Island we knew…by the way, and i do not mean to be condescending, but there always has to be a REASON for any magazine to do a story except perhaps photography magazines…so let’s pretend we have a reason to do Coney Island…and let’s also pretend that whoever gave me this 50k to be used for a magazine story really wants to think this money is being spent wisely and will hold me, as editor, totally responsible for how it all looks in final print form..
so, i can choose between several known photographers of Coney Island.. Valery Rizzo and her look and old timey vision with the Holga..or, i can go the opposite and imagine an extension of the Robert Polidori 8×10 work…or, i can go satiric and satanic with Bruce Gilden and his look, remembering his take…or, go with Ben Crane and his more romantic sentimental photojournalistic color vision of CI…..as an editor i could decide to do a portfolio of all, but in any case i have 4 different visual approaches to Coney Island…
i looked carefully at your Coney Island work….you had several very nice singles in there..i love the couple kissing in the wave….i do not know that i would call your b&w high contrast processing technique a style, but as an effect it worked ok…the problem i would have in giving you this assignment is that in the four above cases, the photographers have all given me a point of view…they are saying something about Coney Island..four different voices…not just four different essays or styles….what you need to do to get into that final casting so to speak is to have a voice…say something to me..tell me what you think about Coney Island besides “this is a crowded beach” and a few generally nice images…now, please please do not think i am being tough on you…or singling you out…you are a terrific guy and a great contributor here….but, you did bring up this issue, so i am simply trying to answer your question as best i can…
summary point is: you knowing me, even though i am a good “in” for you all around, just will not do you any good whatsoever until you have that solid body of work…so please please concentrate on that part and make minimal the superfluous ….i will help…no excuses
cheers, david
Just getting back to Burn after working hard on a stock submission……..I like my appointed adjective Civillian..Dynamic..I’ll take it:-)
And Really happy to have my work mentioned/noticed by you David, :-]
Best
ok, for a minute – forget everything that we know, understand, and accept as being the norm (albeit accepting that it may actually be the norm)
2 imperfect emerging ideas based on the emerging power of the democratisation by the web;
– first thought – publications as partners rather than employers. photographer remains in control. a model of financial imbursement based on circulation readership over multiple mediums – print, web, mobile, billboard, emagazine, pro-lab print,…. – the google model of x cents per view, the x variable changing depending on the medium and the quality => pro-lab print high cost, web view minuscule cost.
– second thought (developing from first) count your page views on your web site, your blog, your facebook, your whatever. apply a formula based on what you would like to be paid / need to be paid to live, divided by the number of page views you have. How minuscule does the result become for you? There *HAS* to be an emerging model there.
in both models above, the viewer may not necessarily pay. think.
lots of problems. imperfect on so many levels, but maybe with a bit of development, perhaps a derivative… just maybe.
Yes, back to reality. Things don’t work like that……. YET.
The thing is everyone can experiment and explore these models and develop them in their commercial endeavours – you don’t have to switch lock stock and two smoking barrels into either model, but why not dip the toe in the water – it’s can’t be any more scary than moving from film to digital :)
Worth thinking about folks.
CIVI:
OMG that is awesome! (god I sound like a schoolgirl). Love it. I’d say you now have better English skills than 50% of America. Keep it up.
CP
MICHAEL,
I can’t get your website to do anything other than the contact and about. Probably first place you should start. (I’m on Safari 4.0).
Best,
CP
TOMMY…
exactly my thoughts…and i think we are doing some of that here and we need to perfect…
CIVILIAN…
perfect…
CIVI
Thank you for giving me courage. I need it! But you left someone out:
A CIVILIAN MASS AUDIENCE, the glue that holds us all together
xxooo
Patricia
CIVI the lover….
xox
Thanks David. I agree on the print issue.
About the still photograph… I’ll have to look into this.
As I’ve decided to move back into photography…
I would hate to have to become a VIDEOGRAPHER…
Cheers.
for writers there is the term, ‘writers block’
whats the equivalent for photographers called?
I know you have to shoot thru it…..
but damn…..
it sucks sometimes….
and I thought I had some good work for my latest project,
but now
I question it all….
jaded…
***
all: :))
no time to write…T-minus 24 hrs for the Odyssey ;))))….long, awful week…but, im very happy…but exhausted…im sure my posts made no sense of late…working on writing/photo editing fatigue….will be back afterward…
David Harvey will do more than pick up a phone for you, but i agree: MOST IMPORTANT think a photographer can do is 1) bust their ass on their work, 2) not give up, 3) follow their vision….i sometimes thing photographers want something first, make the pictures second…if you flip it around life might be lonely often but the rewards are unexpected :)))……Mike W…that’s good advice from young man harvey indeed!
regardless of what each of us believes, one thing is the most important: that you believe: BELIEF, BURNING above all!…to believe in your work, in your life and to believe in each other, as friends, as professionals, as fellow time-travelers (where the fuck is space cowboy when we need him)….
David (ah) will call u thursday night…
and Civi:
CIVI: THE SAINT!
ok, running
hugs
b
DAH:
Is the loft open at all during the next two weeks? When will you be back in new york? I am in the US with Aga Luczakowska.
Best,
Davin
Hey David, no worries, you can single me out anytime. The line about networking skills was a throwaway, though I can understand why you took it the way you did. My point about knowing the right people being important honestly had nothing to do with you or hi-end photography. In the world I inhabit much of the time, a world of art directors and low-end magazine editorial assignments — a world in which many, many photographers have more than enough skills to easily get the required pics — knowing art directors is important. They’ll tell you so themselves (though you still have to deliver). And it’s honestly not something I pursue, just thought the baby shower story was apropos to the conversation that was going on and kind of funny. I’m aware that in the hi-end world those things count for nothing and in no way meant to imply that they did. Cool?
What the Coney Island thing was saying is this: The mayor wants to develop Coney Island. One of the stated reasons is that nobody goes there anymore. Those parts require text. Photo story: Introduction estables beach is crowded and diverse. First series of photos establish just how crowded and diverse it is, zooming from tens of thousands in the frame to aforementioned couple in the waves. Next series of photos examines the crowd, shows that they are not the type you see in Cannes or Malibu, i.e, not affluent or mostly white. Final series of photos shows said types leaving the beach, crowd dwindling, changing ethnically (technique, btw, suggests cleansing), to last photo with European model girl posing for a glamor shot in front of the rainbow with the angel shaped downpour behind it — or, to sum it up, what the city has in mind when they talk about “development”. When they say nobody goes there anymore, they mean wealthy, mostly white people don’t go there anymore. So it’s an interesting story, a bit more than “the beach is crowded,” though you’re right that that is the main point. As for the quality of the photos and of how well the intent came out in the production, well, I trust your take on those things and am doing as you suggest. Working to improve skills, attempting ambitious projects. Have been since before we met.
Again, no worries. I like and very much appreciate professional criticism. Thanks.
DAH
“my list of photographers who could really pull off a commissioned piece is much shorter than you think..sure, sure, lotsa good pictures out there, but making those good pictures on demand and on a specific editorial story still seems to be in the hands of a few…”
Yes, like I keep harping, if you wanna do this for a living, you have to take the business side seriously, being a pro means coming back with the goods, every time, all the time.
I’ve got George Stienmetz’s book, “African Air” In it there is a wonderful story in the book about him meeting with Nat Geo art director Bob Gilka. When viewing his stuff, Gilka paused at a photo and said “doesn’t work”. Stienmetz writes “I tried to explain some of the difficulties of the situation, but he cut me off. “is that an excuse” he asked. “Uh, I guess so” I said.
“Well, we publish photographs here, not excuses”.
Civi, you are amazing.
CENTER has announced their 2010 Center Awards.
Take a look…
http://www.visitcenter.org/
I guess since it’s gone this far I should post the link. I hadn’t looked at it for awhile and was kind of afraid to, but it’s pretty much like I remember it, save the little tangent about food. Can’t compare this piece to what others have done. I’ve seen the Holga look, the freakshow, the snide, the old-timey sentimental, the gorgeous, but I’ve never seen what I see. The real people at Coney Island Beach. And I don’t see that traditional literary structure in too many slideshows either, or maybe I just don’t recognize it? Photo narratives are funny that way. Anyway, you asked why an editor would choose me. That’s pretty much it. Original take. Well-structured narrative. Subtle socio-political references. Humor. Add great photography to that and I’ll be set, eh? And yes, I know you’ll pick up the phone for work you believe in, whether it’s mine or anyone else’s. I can’t adequately express how much I appreciate that.
And again, since it’s gone this far, I’ll say this and never speak of it again. It’s a bit uncomfortable dealing with famous people, or those who for whatever reason have people constantly scheming to meet them and maybe get some kind of benefit. I don’t blame them for being wary and suspicious of others’ motives. Maybe I’m so afraid of being perceived that way that it causes it to happen. I don’t know. But know this; if I want something I’m upfront about it. Especially as a professional journalist. I’m not shy about contacting editors and publishers and pitching stories and I don’t take it a bit personally if they’re not interested. I know how it works as a writer, but as I mentioned, haven’t quite puzzled it out as a photographer (yes, I know a body of work is the prereq). So if you suspect I’m being anything but upfront, I hope you give me the benefit of the doubt. That goes for everybody. That’s all I can say. No response required.
On an actually interesting note, I came across a little exchange between Ansel Adams and some documentary photographers in an obscure newsletter from 1940. I’ll type it up tomorrow or the next day and post a link. I think the print people here will find it especially fascinating.
The link doesn’t work?
http://www.mwebphoto.com/Galleries/ConeyIslandBeach/slideshow.html
Do you ever feel like all you want to do is get out of the way of the story? Of course you want your photos to be the best you can make but that is not what you want viewers to notice — you just want them to get the story. Everything is about the story not about you as a photographer.
What that means for me is that when I am editing the essay my choices are less about which photos are most remarkable and more about which ones move the story forward. Such a different way of editing. I’m having to put my ego aside and ask myself: How best can this story be told? Especially when working with audio and stills together, the photos and sequencing must be in harmony with the sound. In my case, the audio is a recorded dialogue between my principle subjects, Phil and Scott, and it is THEIR story we are telling. So my photos must serve their story not vice versa. This is all about them as a gay married couple, not about me as a photographer. I want to be invisible.
Does this make sense to anyone?
Patricia
PAT
makes total sense….
yes…
its the story…
that needs to be told….
NOT the photographers story…
but…
thats a blurry line…..
as its thru
OUR eyes…..
xox
Patricia;
Wendy’s right. No matter how dispassionate you try to be; you are always going to see the story through your own eyes, no one else’s… It is Phil and Scott’s story, but as seen by your eyes…
A gay man/woman, younger woman/man (insert any demographic!) photographer would also shoot it as they see it, and try to record what is important to them.
As long as you are being faithful to your own vision/views (and Scott and Phil’s story) it will all come together. Trust your instincts; remember? :-)
Thanks, Wendy and Ross, for understanding what I was trying to say. And yes, you’re right — it IS their story through my eyes. I just hope my eyes (mind and heart) saw/thought/felt it in a way that will do justice to them and their love for one another. Such a sense of responsibility comes with this work of telling another’s story. Purity of intent becomes so important. Or at least as pure as we can manage.
Patricia
PAT
I’ve always loved the Native American saying,
‘there are 3 sides to every story,
his story,
her story
and the truth…’
as photographers,
we are always telling
only one side of a story…
which in part,
is our story…..
xox
Patricia. Purity of intent is a great statement. But that ‘intent’ is different for everyone.
and what happens when your intentions are to make something a certain way, for a certain reason, but then you get a glimpse of a different story? Do you look away?
Sometimes I think the harder it is for someone to look at themselves in a picture, the better the picture is. Sometimes i just like how someone looks just as they are. And sometimes I see nothing there at all and no point in making a picture at all. Never can tell until the moment.
Well said, John. One of the things I most admire about you is your honesty, especially your self-honesty. I see it in your portraits and hear it in your comments. That counts for a lot.
Patricia
Patricia,
“Getting out of the way” ABSOLUTELY makes sense to me. I’ve never forgotten a comment by Mary Ellen Mark (which I can’t quote exactly) that goes something like “I want to tell THEIR story. It’s not about me.”
This is where I get confused about “authorship” and perhaps why I have so much difficulty understanding some of the conceptual work presented here on burn. Quite a bit of what’s called “artistry” appears very self-indulgent to me….
That’s why there’s documentary photography and then there’s fine art photography.
Different strokes…different intentions.
WENDY
Beautiful saying. Thanks so much for sharing it. The “truth.” How in the world do we find THAT???
CATHY
Yes, sometimes there’s a fine line between “artistry” and self-indulgence. Again, it comes back to intention. Somehow I think the viewer feels the photographer’s intention on a subliminal level. If it’s all about the photographer instead of the subject(s), something about the essay doesn’t sit right with us.
And now to bed. It’s almost 2 a.m. where I live. Night night…
Patricia
David,
If you have a moment, could you please look my news pictures? Thanks.
Best, audrey
Wow, new Harry Gruyaert’s book “moscow”!
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/c.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.BookDetail_VPage&pid=2TYRYD0R3XVW
I fall in love in his book “Edges”, one of most impressive book I’ve seen ever but also extremely expensive.
Great master.
About Coney Island…
Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Michael, nice one, love the coney island pics, there are some crackers in there, favorite is the girl with curly dark hair running away from camera with the big wheel in the distance.
Cheers
ian
Patricia,
When I am working on commercial assignments I am given a purpose/intent by the commissioner but it still has to have my take/style for me to feel comfortable with the work and I hope that is why I have been commissioned. But from the outset there is an outline and objective to work with and also time constraints so you have to just get on with it. When working on personal projects I start with an skeleton of an idea and the story evolves from there (this can also happen on commercial work), as I get more into the story the more I find out, the characters evolve, there are different branches to follow. But you must retain that “Golden Thread” (a great artist friend introduced me to this idea.).
Once all is shot, the difficult process of editing begins, it is not totally divorced from shooting as you are editing on the hoof when shooting. Editing is as you say is a huge responsibility, making your story comprehensible but also being true to yourself and the story. I find it immensly difficult to choose the keeoers that also tell the story. Sometimes you can have great shots that work as stand alones but don’t work as part of the story, othertimes you might have to put in not so great shots that help tell the story.
I find it is at this stage that I have to be so clear in my story, to enable me to make a good edit, then again, when editing I find I might have left out a strand of the story which throws things off kilter again and me into mayhem, and I need to start again……tough times
I suppose you can liken the whole process to Ansel Adams’ Previsualisation for a print, have an idea of what you want to achieve and go for it, the only differnce being there must be room for manouver.
My 2ps worth as I struggle with a personal project at the mo.
Ian
Michael,
Excellent photos! Like the mood, grain and perspective. Very nice one.
Here’s a link to an interesting exchange I came across from a 1940 newsletter put out by the Photo League, an organization that was dedicated to promoting documentary photography that thrived in New York in the mid-twentieth century until it was blacklisted by McCarthy.
At this time, they were trying to get some of their photos into a show being put on by Ansel Adams. This was a little funny because they typically had very open contempt for landscape photography. While they were negotiating with Adams about the show, they published a review of a photography how-to book that featured an attack on Adams, pretty much saying he was the last person in the world who should write a chapter on how to make prints. I find Adams’ reply interesting on several levels.
I’m not an Adams scholar, so I don’t know if any of this is new. But if it’s new to you, I trust you’ll find it interesting. It discusses his views on documentary photography and goes into some detail on what he thinks its relationship to prints should be. Even includes talk of chemicals (Erica, John G., et. al., this is for you).
Emjoy:
http://www.mwebphoto.com/HTML/adamsInPhotoNotes.html
MARCIN
Harry is one of the greatest visionary image makers i know… too bad he is kind of often overlooked…
he is certainly on a par with Eggleston of whom i have seen recently an extensive show in Chicago.. those dye transfer prints… i would have “eaten” them…
always enjoy your comments…
best
David,
I don’t want to bother you, but I realized my English was wrong..I meant to say, If you have a moment, could you please look at my new pictures? Thanks Erica !!!
audrey
hi all..
a note that the British Journal of Photography piece about the dark light of this nothing is online today – it’s one photo and a shortened version of the article..which is just long enough to highlight burn!
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=874048
********
(audrey xo)
AKAKY: Did you know we’re unbaised?
AKAKY IRL: Do tell. How did that happen?
AKAKY: Civi says so.
AKAKY IRL: So does this mean we are not violent right wing racist homophobic teabagging Republican Party gun nuts out to undermine the current Administration’s plans to transform America anymore?
AKAKY: We don’t have a gun.
AKAKY IRL: Don’t get technical.
AKAKY: Well, I guess we still are, but Civi wants to think otherwise and everyone at Burn likes Civi, so I think we get a pass here.
AKAKY IRL: You know what you just said is illogical. You know that, right?
AKAKY: Yeah, but if you don’t listen to it too carefully it makes sense, sideways, sort of. And everyone likes Civi, that’s not illogical.
AKAKY IRL: You worry me sometimes, bubba. One of these days you’re going to say something like that again and it’s going to make sense even after I’ve thought about it for a while.
AKAKY: Don’t listen to me then; no one else does.
AKAKY IRL: Now that does make sense.
PATRICIA,
Yes it’s a fine line between telling the story objectively yet keeping the viewer engaged with interesting photography. You have to try and do both. I know I’ve seen some essays on here, usually about some terrible tragedy or struggle somewhere, and the pics are just too damn clever for their own good without really moving the story or intent along. Other stories have complex or subtle story or theme but then the pictures are just dull and all we are really left is the photographer’s better written essay. Sometimes simple is better – and sometimes tricky is better.
Not having seen any of this piece you are working on I would be pretty sure, considering it’s a fairly mundane (and I’m not saying unimportant or uninteresting) subject matter that some clever photography probably won’t hurt to keep the viewer engaged. But who knows, I couldn’t say without seeing your first round of picks.
Best of luck,
Charles
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=874048
This is wonderful Erica. Very very nice.
thanks Srivas!
(musing to self: did I really say fashionistas? does anybody say fashionistas?)
WRICA,
Looking at your dark light work again. Man, it is so good, esp the M6 shots. Inspiring. Nice website too btw.
Best,
CP
Patricia, I do understand getting out of the way. It is a very fine line. How do you as a photographer actually influence the subjects in their daily lives? The reality shows are really showing this to me. How in the beginning of a season the stars of the reality show are normal raggity people and before you know it they have been glammed. But, the true story is still there and becoming a regular part of their lives allows for more comfort which allows for more to show through.
As an artist (thanks Civi) I see photos through my artistic (thanks again Civi) eye and so does every photographer in every book I own. That is what makes it great. Your work is amazing and has grown so much since I first met you. Awesome.
Erica M, nice article and love your photographs. The series on the folks in that home were stunning.
Civi – the lover is the best descriptive.
Leaving in two weeks for a ten week road trip. Looking to shoot love, hope, and anything outside the world.
Erica – Congratulations. Looks nice.
A reminder to anyone who may be in New York Thursday evening with time to kill:
I will be doing a slide show titled, “Gift of the Whale” at the Alaska House at 6:00 PM.
109 Mercer Street
New York, NY 10012
Charles..I’ve been called wrica before, but when I was a kid – funny/fun..say it a few times, makes you smile. I’ve been shooting more for it again when I can – in some ways it’s more difficult now, but then again the pressure is off at the moment so i am being more playful / experimental.
Oh i am so missing this convo that is going on here – i have no idea what you all are talking about, but i can’t catch up…
Lee – merci – merci
Frostfrog – I would love to say hi if I can arrange to be in the city, plans are still sketchy but looks like a possibility. Do you have plans for after the presentation? As much as I respect the way that the ‘gift’ is being taken and used, I’m not sure I can watch the presentation itself…in my former incarnation I was involved with marine mammals (behavior/biology/language research) and I’m just coming off watching The Cove. But maybe after?
Know what you mean on missing out on so much of the conversation. Last I checked in copyright was the big subject. Six hours difference between here and NYC make a huge difference and then there is Europe time.
Wendy, I just found your comment about his story, her story and the truth. As a photographer and human being I hope I don’t do this. I want to keep this saying in mind over the next few weeks. Thinking over the work I have done I can see this in some of the work (the bachelor series especially) but for instance in the work with the mennonite family not so much. Interesting thought.
ERICA,
Just a matter of the W being next to the E on the keyboard but I love the serendipity of it being a childhood name.
I like the way you get in people’s faces – without getting in their faces, if you know what I mean. Yes, you photograph characters (some might say freaks – I don’t) who come across as not all “freakish.” And the urban landscapes are somehow like the icing on the cake. Really nice. I’ve only been to Park Slope once, briefly, but it makes me want to go and see more for myself.
CP
Charles – about getting into people’s faces or not…I never feel as if I am *energetically*, I hope they don’t either, but physically I guess I am as I have only ever owned a wide angle lens for the leica (a 28 until Jim lent me the 35) In the interim Andrew Sullivan lent me this really old 50mm, and I had the strangest feelings while looking thru the camera with it – as if i were free – I didn’t shoot much with it because the frame lines made me crazy and I didn’t want to screw up by forgetting what lens i had on the camera; after all it has been years and years of seeing with a 28. But I have this sense that if/when I buy a 50 for the leica and get used to it something magical might happen. I guess I felt invisible in a really good way.
yes, people still do say fashionistas. :)
ERICA,
Well it’s the energy that counts, and you obviously have the “good” type in spades. 28 and 50 both have their magic, but for me the 35 on Leica is the sweet spot.
CP
Erica; “old 50mm, and I had the strangest feelings while looking thru the camera with it – as if i were free”
Strangely; I used to feel the same way when I put a 50mm on the FM2… I’m only holding off buying a 35mm (for the same focal length on DX) because I may be picking up a D700 and already have a 50 1.8
Most people would look at me as though I was crazy when I said said I found a standard lens inspiring.. Gearheads, you know? :-)
it felt a little like cheating/ spying too if used for street work :)
Erica – Congratulations, your work deserves it.
Everyone – Did anyone see the article in the NYTimes Business section, front page, today on the decline of the professional photographer,not that it was a great article, it was actually a quite depressing article, but they mentioned BurnMagazone.org as one of the go to places for original photography.
Best, Valery
Just wanted to say I received a wonderful little package from London today … #968 of 2000 … Nick Turpin’s street photographers bi-annual “Publication” which is nicely packaged with a set of 22 wonderful prints on heavy card stock with photographer bios and thoughts on the back. A Parke and an Autio in the mix, and all photos of equal caliber. Just wonderful. I’m buying frames. This is very nicely done, and a good model. http://www.in-publication.com
FEDERICO…MARCIN…
yes, Harry is a great image maker…terrific new Moscow book..but, i never thought of him as overlooked, but maybe he is just not so well known in the U.S…isn’t he quite well known in Europe? if not, he should be…certainly one of our most important colorists….by the way, for a small country Belgium has born more that its share of great photographers..besides Harry, there are Carl De Keyzer, John Vink and our own ANTON KUSTERS!!!
AUDREY…
thanks for the clarification….but, i did know what you meant ….and of course i will skype with you whenever you want and we can go over all the new work……day after tomorrow best if possible….call me about 9am my time if that is convenient for you…or, send me chat message as to best time convenient for you…
cheers, david
CATHY…
this has been your mantra since we starting chatting online several years ago…so, that is simply your position….never could get you to see it another way…laughing…however, imo there is a big different between self indulgence and authorship…authorship is saying something..making you either learn or feel or engage….now that “message” could be esoteric in nature, but not necessarily self indulgent…or it could be journalistic and very self indulgent….however, projecting something personal does not mean self indulgence imo…merely reflective….do you think Patricia is being self indulgent because she has a whole book of self portraits? or was Vicky self indulgent because she likes to communicate using a pinhole camera?? do you honestly see Mary Ellen as pure documentary?? in any case, tell me who you think was being self indulgent?? you might be right…just curious….
oh yes, most important…i am waiting for India…you might have sent the work already…i will spend the next two days going over submissions and links etc…anyway waiting…i know you will have some terrific new work..
cheers, david
ERICA…
i think i mentioned this before, but just want to make sure…very nice piece on you in the British Journal of Photography…you are on a roll!!!
cheers, david
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
i will seriously work with you on Coney Island…you have all the right motives and , as i said, some very nice singles in the mix…with just a bit of taking it a step further, i think you will do a very nice piece..so, let’s either skype or meet when i am next in new york…i have some thoughts for you
that’s inspiring DAH! Looking forward to seeing the next project that gets sponsored.
DAH.
Gee, I thought I was just having a little private chat with Patricia…
didn’t realize you were in the room :))
Don’t give up on me. You have definitely gotten me to see things differently over the years. I’m working my way over to your side of the room. I just move slowly :))
As far as my comment to Patricia. Glad you are questioning what I said because it gives me a chance to say it again more clearly. I was not saying authorship and self indulgence are one and the same. Not at all. I agree with what you said above as far as authorship is concerned. I can see how what I wrote was confusing because I lumped two thoughts together in one sentence.
See if this makes more sense…First I responded to Patricia’s experience of wanting to get “out of the way” and said I get confused about the fine line between “being invisible” and authorship. How to be “in” while “staying out.”
Then.. a second thought was about conceptual work and self indulgence… “perhaps why I have so much difficulty understanding some of the conceptual work presented here on burn. Quite a bit of what’s called “artistry” appears very self-indulgent to me….” That was meant only about conceptual work such as the Craig’s List piece (if I must give an example) where the process of the “artist” seems (IMHO) to be given more importance than the actual work.
Does that make any more sense? I hope so.
Regarding India…I’m glad to hear you KNOW I have terrific new work.
Wish I had as much confidence as you do. :))
I have not sent a link yet. It took me a long time to want to edit. I am just getting started. Editing is far from my favorite thing to do. In fact, I think I’d rather just shoot and not ever edit! But I will try to get something together for you asap. I could edit this work in so many ways…a DAH edit, an edit for this one, that one. My husband’s favorites…do I dare pick the images I like? It’s like pulling teeth for me. :((
David,
It is perfect for me, thank you very much…
All the best, audrey
Federico, David,
I also have impression, well rather I am sure Harry Gruyaert is overlooked. Apart from the fact he is part of the magnum group and everyone from magnum is somehow famous I think he is one of the most underestimated one.
Not only he is unusual poet of reality but also most fabulous photo painter I know. And for sure Internet is not best way to show his works, and books are probably only a half way to exhibitions with prints. When I held his book “Edges” few days ago and looked at this pictures I thought this is some kind of treasure. From long time nothing made for me so huge impression. Visual delicious. In every bookstore firstly I took his book in my hand to watch it one more time.
I am curious how “Moscow” looks in reality.
I just found amazing Polish photographer I didn’t know before Monika Bulaj.
Have a look:
http://www.monikabulaj.net/eng/
I stumbled over Harry Gruyaert last year in Arles, his work (pretty big rpints) on display in a restaurant, hotel halls, don’t remember well, with the possibility to buy or order them right there.. don’t think his exhibition had to do anything with Rencontres d’Arles though..
Michael (Webster), the glow your pictures always have, both bw and colour, is that due to postprocessing? Curious..
errr.. stumbled over his work, not over himself..
Eva, no, I’m solidly in the “get it right in camera” camp. Regarding the glow, if it’s what I think you are talking about, I’ve put some effort into studying the nature of light and the ways it changes, and changes the subject, as it passes through different types of materials (primarily glass of course). I often find diffusion strategies helpful with direct light or for making the best of impossible highlights. My real vision isn’t that sharp these days so the effect is consistent with what I actually see. And I find the ways that the human brain adjusts the lighting of a scene in real time based on what it expects to see germane as well, but that’s a seriously long and involved conversation.
David, thanks again. I’ll send an email later.
iPadders, here you go:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/roundup-ipad-reviews/?intcid=inform_relatedContent
Michael, thanks.. gotta have a look at it on another screen..
I also have impression, well rather I am sure Harry Gruyaert is overlooked. Apart from the fact he is part of the magnum group and everyone from magnum is somehow famous I think he is one of the most underestimated one.
——————————————————————————————–
Hmmm , then how about this Magnum guy:
Donovan Wylie…isnt he overlooked?
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.PhotographerDetail_VPage&l1=0&pid=2K7O3R1VT2KC&nm=Donovan%20Wylie
Panos. I have always loved Losing ground. i thought it was, and is still is, a fantastic document. Then all that maze stuff just left me cold. hard even to imagine its the same author. Of course there is the fact that at the time he made those traveller pictures I was quite heavily involved in that scene, which probably bias’s me towards it a bit. Tough stuff and as good a record that I have seen of how it actually felt to live that life.
Panos,
I am full of respect to Wylie’s works but also I am not surprised that he is not most famous Magnum’s photographer. He need a special audience and mass audience never is the special audience.
Marcin: I LOVE Harry Gruyaert! :)))…In fact, i love photographers who are ‘unknown’ ;)))….the truth is that his work, especially his Television series was a gorgeous inspiration…in fact, in an upcoming essay of mine that will be published, i have some images that are partly an homage to Gruyaert and to Chris Marker….i’m anxious to see the Moscow book too…thanks for sharing :))
DAVID: wont call tonight…Magazine hasnt published yet…im guessing now it’ll be after the weekend holidays…but when i goes live, will call u and leave a link here.
DAVID/CATHY/ALL:
just a brief word about “self-indulgent’…the truth is ALL PHOTOGRAPHY is self-indulgent…it doesn not matter if it’s ‘conceptual’ or ‘journalism/documentary’…we all, each one of us, seeks to tell stories in the way we see the world and each of us has a philosophy…journalist tell stories of people because they want to speak about the world or problem or witness…artists create something because it’s their take on the world…and i never understand this criticism…it is about how each of us tells stories, whether that’s with photographs or words or over a glass of wine or while getting our hair cut or riding a subway or alone in the dark…we negotiate and manage the world by perceiving it and rhyming it within our own ideas and limitations and the only way we can know the world is that way and then we share it….
i always feel that the best way to deal with work that someone doesnt like or understand is not to criticize it, but to make your own work…make good strong powerful work and that is enough…that’s why im always so positive and supportive because i get inspired by others and i work my ass off to make the work i can…in it’s own limited way…i’ll have along essay published soon that will be perceived by many to be self-indulgent,…but, well, i hope it speaks to someone other than myself…it’s the only thing i know: to share with the world the mining of the dark and the mining of our lives, as a means to share with others…
make work…that’s the most honest criticism possiblity and the most fruitful! :))
ok, gotta split..
hugs
bob
I’ve never forgotten a comment by Mary Ellen Mark (which I can’t quote exactly) that goes something like “I want to tell THEIR story. It’s not about me.”
———————————————-
yes sure…oh plz…baloney
just a brief word about “self-indulgent’…the truth is ALL PHOTOGRAPHY is self-indulgent…it doesn not matter if it’s ‘conceptual’ or ‘journalism/documentary’…we all, each one of us, seeks to tell stories in the way we see the world and each of us has a philosophy…
———————————————-
exactly….!
i’ll have along essay published soon that will be perceived by many to be self-indulgent,…
——————————————————————————–
go for it man…:)
enough of all that (look at me, im jesus,im here to save the world from hepatitis and hiv…if one really wants to save the world then one should go invent a vaccine, then distributed for FREE…or become a volunteer for Doctors without borders or something like that and leave that camera alone…)
Marcin..i love your paintings :)
http://www.marcinluczkowski.com/paint.html
Hey Panos – ALL photography IS self indulgent, It’s wether or not you are any good at it is what matters.
Having said that
Happy Easter from us to yallin , Yallin being the plural to Y’all (as explained to me by a Texan Photographer Aylyssa Banta)
Happy Easter
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/
Just read the following in the introduction of a book addressed to writers:
<>
“Story” by Robert McKee…
(…another try…)
Just read the following in the introduction of a book addressed to writers:
Story is about principles not rules.
A rule says “you MUST do it THIS way”.
A principle says “this WORKS; and has through all remembered time”.
Your work needn’t be modeled after the well made play; rather it must be well made within the principles that shape our art.
Anxious, inexperienced writers obey rules; Rebellious, unschooled writers break rules.
An artist MASTERS THE FORM.
“Story” by Robert McKee…
i think that if someone loves shooting wars (for example) is because this one is fascinated by wars…
Same with the one that shoots drugs or prostitutes…
Thats why i believe D’Agata is honest (brilliant also) of course..
He is not trying to raise “awareness”!!?? about the effects of crack and heroin to the masses..
He is not trying to solve or even educate…
Self indulgent? hmmm, so now we opened that bible again…
Self indulgence a sin…therefore objective….that means bad intentions …that means “art”…fake..
not documentary…not steve mc curry real…
Amazing way of thinking…
Panos, about HIV and AIDS and its VERYVERY expensive meds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9Z2FbEgeRM
You should be able to understand her I guess..
Story is about principles not rules.
A rule says “you MUST do it THIS way”.
A principle says “this WORKS; and has through all remembered time”.
Your work needn’t be modeled after the well made play; rather it must be well made within the principles that shape our art.
Anxious, inexperienced writers obey rules; Rebellious, unschooled writers break rules.
An artist MASTERS THE FORM.
————————————-
Thodoris, excellent..
Glenn….:)))))))
nice
big hug
happy easter
(im happy that the real jesus is getting resurrected once again in a couple of nights…i hope he wont bring a leica with him…but i also hope that most righteous pj’s will stop acting jesus…we have one jesus already and thats more than enough…now let Him cure hiv and let us do the pictures…ok? ;)
Panos,
I am close to burn all my paintings and photo archive but can’t find matches.
but still working…. film after film.
Actually I’ve met a few photogs that thought they were gods gift…they ended up disapointed!
Marcin – why not do a symbolic burn?
Just burn prints and leave the negatives till you are thinking more clearly?
“Indulge” means to gratify, coddle, or stroke. Add “self” to “indulgent” and it’s a polite way of saying “wanker.” One can focus inward without being indulgent. Nothing wrong with that. And some few do manage to make self-indulgence an interesting art form. Nothing wrong with that, either, but it’s a risk. A risk that those taking it are too often completely unaware. Too busy coddling themselves, you know.
Eva…
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
So HIV is another scam…created from the pharmaceutical to push AZT…
who would know????????
I mean it was kinda obvious with their latest invention (see swine flu)…
I mean common sense could easily see through that scam…but HIV???? who knew that most hiv patients die eventually from cirrhosis from the drug cocktails they are prescribed to take…
i wish the video u posted above was translated in english too…
HIV? the king of all scams?
I would never guess!!!!
Michael,
I didn’t know “wanker” was part of american language, I’ve had to explain it a few times which makes for interesting times….. Glad to see it is full use over the pond, very expressive.
Cheers
ian
Glenn, I really love those flood photos. Marcin, meant to compliment you on the bronze photos as well. Are you familiar with Lewis Hine? He had a credo for photographing industrial workers. Will try to reproduce it for you next time I come across it.
Actually I’ve met a few photogs that thought they were gods gift…
——————————————————–
Glenn he he…no doubt…little jesus-es…
u see..people tend to believe that if a photographer-pj is working on an hiv story in africa that…
that along proves the good character,the good intentions, the higher consciousness of the photog…
The mother theresa syndrom…You photograph the “good” therefore you Are a “good”soul..therefore a good photographer also…Because a good christian, a great human being HAS to be a good photographer also..
Ian, yes, a great example of how the internet has brought us all together. Kumbaya!!!
I am close to burn all my paintings
———————————-
Great idea…I think DAH should have a “paintings” section/page here on burn..
for paintings to be “burned”..i mean criticized and admired …just like singles and essays…
We burn essays everyday…why not paintings? we got tons of matches here..no worries..
:)
Glenn,
Symbolic burn? Like Tv screen in fireplace? lol
From time to time I have a need to destroy everything I did. Now is the time I have to wait it out.
Glenn,
This one is great;
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/201001_1911-500×333.jpg
and this one:
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/201001_190-500×333.jpg
Panos, there’s plenty of videos, books, articles outta there, not from people like you and me, but from Nobel winning scientists as well, which at least question the whole thing, or proof first day news wrong (there’s also a lot of bogus stuff to be found, one has to be careful and do some research).. fact is, the HIV virus has never been isolated, AIDS isn’t a disaese but the sum of 32 ilnesses etc… if you look at the testresults of so called HIV positive patients it depends on in which country you live in if you’re positive or not, it varies so much it’s crazy.
Lots of people diagnosed with HIV or AIDS live for years.. I don’t say they’re not sick, they do have health problems, but get treated with the wrong meds.. huge and difficult, but very interesting topic.
Eva….im still amazed…
i will never forget back in 85 when hiv started its “career”nobody knew what it was (obviously still nobody does)…but i remember one day back then i was at the dentists ..in the waiting room..so i picked up a leaflet from the table to pass some time..it was from the greek orthodox church…educational..explanatory…about hiv..
I will never forget that all it was saying , bottommline that it was a curse from god towards GAY people…
It was a disease that meant to be from gays for gays…and then catholics (that refuse the use of condom) confirmed that abstinence is the real “cure”…
family values…fear…return to church..prayer….acceptance of all drugs given by doctors…MASS CONTROL…
behavioral control…HIV works perfect as a little nazi leader (no moustache necessary)…
and the pharmaceutical companies profit…
and speaking of the mighty orthodox church…that never been taxed in this country( greece )…now that the greek economy collapsed , now that they need to share their wealth..now that they need to help…they simply refuse…of course…
Religion= big fat business…not taxed for thousands years…wealth..power….and what do they sell…
First FEAR , then SALVATION…
Church LTD ( sponsored by the pharmaceutical scam backs )
http://www.hiv-aids-factorfraud.com/#watch
here, you can watch the first 20 minutes for free, also over itunes..
.. and I wont enter the organised religion/religious talk..
BOB…ALL
you are a wordsmith…so, come up with a better term than “self indulgent”…i totally know what you mean and i totally agree in principle…all photography, at least the best of it, is coming from inside the photographer…an expression of the self…it is just that “indulgent” sounds self centered rather than self motivated….there is a difference…i have never met any artist who did not have a healthy ego…even the outwardly humble have a very strong sense of who they “are” and what they want to say and how they want to say it…this is what makes someone NEED to create anything…and this is what makes the most creative simply take a stand on their work…
the biggest weakness i see when viewing the work of an aspiring growing photographer is that they often have no point of view…nice pictures but without any sense of what they think or who they are…and who they “are” is what will make all the rest of us take notice…with billions on the planet it is hard to imagine billions of stories…there are only about 7 or 8 basic human “plots” or dramas…yet, even the simplest “story” told from a really strong revealing viewpoint will seem like a story we have never heard before…the beauty of it all is that there is no end…always always a new melody and a new lyrical combo that resonates…this can only come from “self”…do the math…the only logical possibility
cheers, david
GLENN…
laughing…yes, the photographers who thought they were God’s gift would end up disappointed…YET, maybe they actually did do something because of that attitude…maybe not…for sure most artists end up disappointed….because you can never “arrive”….if you arrive then there is no more creative spirit…if you feel you have arrived at the station, it is time to get back on the train….
cheers, david
PANOS…
i am for paintings, poems,drawings, short stories, collages…the whole bit…the only photographer here who wrote a short story with the work was….guess guess….yes…Akaky…yea, bring it all on….
EVA…
do not despair…i am going to get to your Palio work in the next two days…
DAVID, amigo and ALL:
hey guys, my use of the word ‘self-indulgent’ was taken from the previous discussion that someone suggested that some photography is ‘self-indulgent’ and others not…i HATE the world self-indulgent because it’s judgmental..and i’ve never called another photographer or work ‘self-indulgent’… i used it because that is the word cathy used in her discussion with Patricia….
shit, i think use of the word is totally lazy…that’s what i said: better than criticize or label, folks should just work, make work! :)))…
…
i was suggesting that any photographer who calls others work self-indulgent is hypocritical…im not saying cathy is, but that i HATE people talking aobut work…all work is about self and how that self expresses itself and views the world….
so, the way i view photography:
self-actualized….or self-directed…or better, just this:
PHOTOGRAPHY!
:))…
but PLEASE, in know way do i think photography is ‘self-indulgent’….thought that was clear…with my post…but that’s cool..
gotta split
hugs all
happy easter etc…
bob
ps. what i meant by ‘all photography is self-indulgent’ (riffing on the judgment others made) was that ALL PHTOOGRAPHY begins with our self, our eyes, our philosophy, our stories, our viewing of the world, so that to call someone else’s work ‘self-indulgent’ (for example, conceptual work, in the case above) is just wrong…it’s like saying:
‘some people are people and others are more people-ish’ ;)))))
silly…
anyway…hope that makes sense..
but who supports a wider group of photograhers than mr. black ;)))))))))))))))))
hugs
running
b
David.. instead.. have you considered to spay your kitten.. now I have no idea how the situation over there is, or better your personal, but kitten kids will eventually generate more of them.. exponential growth.. and don’t worry, I never despair, you’ve got so much stuff to catch up.. soon the EPF deadline with even more work.. YIKES! (bet you’re feeling better now ;) )
BOB
your input on Gruyaert/Moscou new book??
hugs from a burn long time lurker and admirer of your imagery and comments…
damn it..Federico…no secrets admirers for me?
:(
BOB…
of course i knew you most likely would not use “self indulgent” and were only referring to a previous comment……i was just looking for a better word or phrase and figured you were the man to find it…..thanks
EVA…
yes, yes i know i should have taken my kitten to be spayed…since she was only less than a year old herself i just kept thinking of her as a baby and not as a mother..the four kittens will all have homes with people i know…my brother, both my sons, and i might keep one…i am sure to become attached…in any case i will have Simone spayed at the first opportunity…
cheers, david
PANOS
no secrets anymore… i always loved your pics/posts from very day one… truly!!
are you still in the country of the gods??
hugs, f
Bob
I don’t like say what people think or who they are, because I don’t know what in people’s mind is, but If I know artist (photogs or painters) they are mostly very self indulgent. But this self indulgent is not on basis of merit of their work, because many times they try say something universal in their meaning, but the base… I suppose the base is always self-indulgent.
Ahhh Federico…u sound like good ol’Mozart music in my ears..
he he..thanks…yes still in grecolandia…for couple more weeks..
12 gods here…we can make a soccer team plus an extra one…
I hope they’ll use those gods in the Mondiale in South Africa..
otherwise we are lost….laughing
BURNIANS…you are amazing…
Can I say …I am laughing so hard …silents …no more…
P.S Thank you WENDY,OURPATRICIA,EMCD,AKAKY,BOBB,LEE,ALL…I am extremely busy…
I prepare some …lambs…I will be back…with more adjectives…
I have more names…more photophilosophers…
BURN is the damnit PLACE TO BE…
got to split the …you know what…I definitely love you ALLL
and to ALL the BURNIANS in the Grecoland…
you are invited…Big party at the Civilian’s house
SUNDAY after 10:00 a.m Ethniki odos 2xlm Athinon …
e-mail: civilianma@yahoo.com
Everything ON ME…VIVA
PANOS
what a compliment.. wow, Mozart… i am actually a professional classical musician, violinist, and i use my profession as a pretext to photograph the countries and the people i happen to be in, unpretentiously… currently in Japan… drinking shochu this very minute… would certainly like to share it with you and a others burners, DAH included of course… too little left though…
best, f
hey Federico…:)
how about a slideshow (whenever u feel ready)
with photos accompanied with some of your own music…?
violin!!!!!!!!
cant wait!
FEDERICO…
we are happy to share anytime…i hope you got my message about Harry…surely one of the greats….and this new Moscow book really does it…
FROSTFROG…
did i miss you in New York? i remembered you were coming, but totally forgot about it once i was there..you always gotta stay on my case….
DAVIN…
totally missed your comment first time around…in theory the Burn Hotel is available at least during some of your stay…we are printing my American Family show there right now for Madrid, so you cannot throw any parties nor spill beer on my prints..smiling…please call me 202 413-1137 and i will try to coordinate keys etc…Pete McBride is coming at some point , so we will have to make sure there is no crossover…hotel management is not my strongest suit…
DAVID/ALL: :))
ok, ok ;)))…so for my beloved burnians, here is the word i decided upon to DESCRIBE ALL OF US…photographers, writers, burners, lovers, drinkers….fuck the ‘self-indulgent’ label, WE ARE NOT SELF-INDULGENT but this
We are EPICUREAN! :)))))))
amigo, hope i got the faith back ;))))
MARCIN :)))…yea, that’s what i was trying to say: at the center of our lives and pulpy hearts lay the ‘me’ inside the world of the ‘i’…and we just do that we hope, in fact, I BELIEVE when someone tells their story, their peculiar and particular story than that story becomes the universal story :)))))…shit, who’d ever marry me anyway but another photographer :)))…hugs
FREDERICO: :)))…will look for the books and make a pronouncement :)))…after this weekend…on pins/needles awaiting for new publication
running
all
hugs
b
DAH, BOB, PANOS, PATRICIA, all…
DAH did you see my post from last night that responded to you? I had hoped it would clarify my comment at least slightly.
PATRICIA I hope you don’t mind me quoting you here but my (somehow offensive?) use of the word self-indulgent was part of a conversation with you.
I’m always glad to start a good conversation here but I am surprised to see such a reaction to the use of one word. Self-indulgent seems to hit a lot of nerves around here. Is it one of the “dirty words” of photography? As you are all saying, ALL work is self indulgent to some degree so what’s wrong with using it? I think it’s a fine word. Bob hates the word because he thinks it’s judmental yet he has no problem with judging me for using it….saying it’s “totally lazy.” What’s up with that? :))
Since Bob is re-explaining his choice of words, given all the reaction I may as well do the same…
Let’s go back to the start of this conversation. Patricia’s remark about not wanting her work to be about HER but about the story:
“Do you ever feel like all you want to do is get out of the way of the story? Of course you want your photos to be the best you can make but that is not what you want viewers to notice — you just want them to get the story. Everything is about the story not about you as a photographer…. Does this make sense to anyone?”
She then went on to say…”Such a sense of responsibility comes with this work of telling another’s story. Purity of intent becomes so important. Or at least as pure as we can manage.”
All I was doing was agreeing with her! Using self-indulgent to mean the opposite of purity of intent since it’s definition is EXCESSIVE indulgence of one’s own appetites and desires. The key word being EXCESSIVE.
Maybe you will take less offense with Patricia’s response to me than if I say this myself. “Yes, sometimes there’s a fine line between “artistry” and self-indulgence. Again, it comes back to intention. Somehow I think the viewer feels the photographer’s intention on a subliminal level. If it’s all about the photographer instead of the subject(s), something about the essay doesn’t sit right with us.”
DAH asked for an example of where I felt the process of the “artist” seemed to be given more importance than the actual work. From what I recall, the essay I used as an example both Bob and Panos agreed with me.
So let’s discuss, have differences of opinion and enjoy…let’s not mince words.
help please…
Am submitting a last minute grant proposal, and I need ideas of how to get images onto outdoor wood panels, that won’t encourage vandalism or fade / go away (funders want something that will
stay) Am thinking silkscreening on the back of plexi? and then screwing the plexi to the wood. Any sources? All b&w thank god! other ideas? I cant print/shrinkwrap the panels like they do buses, as there is existing signage here and there that can’t be removed.
thanks!!!!
DAH:
Thanks! I just left a voicemail. We need a place to sleep mon-wed nights, 5-7 April.
Best,
Davin
EMCD,
if you have wooden panels they can be printed on flatbed inkjet printers using inks and a UV cure. Most sign printers will be able to do them. You can get the machines to laydown white ink in the print areas so that the image shows up on the surface. You could also do this on plexi if you want. Basically they can print onto any flat surface.
I have been doing some tests with printing onto wood, haven’t found the perfect solution for fine art yet, but the signage route should be good for your route.
ian
ian, large though, like 7feet by 7 feet?
to all the aspiring PJ’s out there that are ready to
go cover the hiv “epidemic” please watch this
before end up working (without even knowing ) for the propaganda side..
its like working for the pharmaceutical companies
without getting paid..please stop supporting them
(once again , i wanna thank Eva for all this info…i had no idea about that Aids scam..how naive was i..)
watch this , please:
http://cdn2.libsyn.com/aidsvideos/TheOtherSideOfAIDS.m4v?nvb=20100401183834&nva=20100402184834&t=0591b6fbf0c896b99df32
ECMD
sure not worries, commercial printers do huge displays.
Any graphics company that has something like this http://www.graphicdiscount.co.uk/acatalog/Mimaki_JF_Series_UV_Flatbed.html
cheers
ian
ian – looks great – any ideas of where i may be able to check print prices, someone who makes prints for hire? have been googling, but i keep coming up with the printers themselves…
Most of the companies that have them are sign makers etc and do trade prices so don’t advertise the prices.
As a rough price I had a 4foot by 4foot print done on foam ex cost me £60 if you supply the wood it would be cheaper.
Anyone who can print direct to foamex or dibond can do it.
see this for UK price guide. http://www.exantia.co.uk/direct_to_board/foamex.html
EMCD
look up direct to board printing
http://www.nationalphoto.com/direct_to_board_printing.html
best of luck
Goto go dealine to catch.
Ian
emcd
expensive but at least you can establish a baseline with them:
http://www.duggal.com/default.aspx
would not suggest plexi mounted to wood — moisture will get in there.
call up duggal, pick their expensive brains
dq
thanks!! have a few solid leads now.
DAVIN…
i think that works…
CATHY…
i had not seen your comment…thanks for the clarification..all of us write too fast here…we spend more time undoing what we wrote than if we had just taken our time and written more succinctly in the first place…
BOB….
“epicurean”…gotta love it…
DAVID
“Now i am viewing lots of young photographers work. What I often see missing is point of view.An approach.Even docu needs authorship, texture”
Are you disappointed when you see so many photo essays submitted to burn by young photographers? disappointed by level of value of this works?
DAH:
you said “Now i am viewing lots of young photographers work. What I often see missing is point of view.An approach.Even docu needs authorship, texture””
how does somebody’s point of view manifest itself in a series of images? how do you achieve authorship, texture? I am not asking rhetorically, I would really love to hear your thoughts because I don’t think I know what a point of view looks like, photographically speaking. Could you maybe point to an example where you see strong authorship, and why/how it shows itself?
Civi, I’m so wishing I could be there.
Alas, stuck here on Vancouver Island.
Big ham n’lamb Sunday dinner here for anyone in the neighborhood!
dearest CT,
i am asking the same. and im glad you asked.
i guess you and i would have to meet the man.
MARCIN…
no, i am not disappointed because i have learned what to expect from young photographers..or, should i say from photographers who have been shooting say three or four years…i do not really expect that more than a very small percentage of either photographers whose portfolios i review, who show up for my classes, or who submit to Burn will totally have it all together…most need a push in one direction or another..and to be very honest , there are some who i must suggest that photography be a serious hobby rather than a profession or to have any expectations beyond personal enjoyment..certain things can be learned, many things are instinctive…what i try to do as a mentor and as an editor is to pique that little something that is inside many photographers that just turns on the light for them…allows the photographer the freedom to see what is right before them..something that was there all along, but just needed to be revealed…it could come from something i show them or say to them…all of it following a long session of me simply listening to them…by listening i can find out what makes them tick..what they like, what they hate, what they fear, what they yearn for…in other words, who they are..and i try to match that with what they tell me they want to do…when i see this manifested in some new brilliant piece of work that came from someone who may have had a “disappointing” portfolio, then my job is done…and their photographic life takes a new turn…so, for me to be disappointed would only come if i felt someone had the passion and the talent, but chose to let it slide..
CT..
your question involves all of our discussions on Burn for the last year and the two previous years with my Road Trips…it is the single most asked question and with a whole thesis as an answer..first of all, i do not know what you know..i.e. your photographic education..so i do not want to be either condescending nor obtuse…the older classics for essays where a photographer really had a point of view would of course be Robert Frank’s “Americans” and several of the essays of W. Eugene Smith like “Minamata” or “Country Doctor” or the powerful “Tulsa” by Larry Clark….the more contemporary Alessandra Sanguinetti with “On the Sixth Day”, Luc Delahaye with “Winterreise” or Nan Goldin with “The Ballad of Sexual Dependency” would be less structured versions of essays with authorship….i could go on and on , but as i said i do not know what you know…in each of the above essays it would be clear to i think anyone that the photographer had something on his/her mind..something gnawing..something that just had to come out…a missive…a statement..a feeling..an injustice…a “this is the way i see it” stance…no apologies..no explanations…just authorship…visual literacy…clear intent, clear result
there is so much more to say on this subject…let me know if this helps or this is too obvious….i can take it either backwards or forwards depending on your wish…
cheers, david
David – I only arrived in New York in the late afternoon of March 31. I had planned to call you Friday to see if by chance you were in town, but this answers that question.
I made two Gift of the Whale slide presentations here, one in the morning to students at Columbia and another in the evening at the Alaska House. Both went very well.
My hope that at least one “Burnian” would show up did come true. That was Michael Webster.
I did take a photo of him, too, and I would put it on my blog, but he was feeling a bit shy about that idea, so, sadly, I respect his wishes.
But Mike – I am so glad you came. It was fun to meet you in the flesh.
Erica, if I stay on my current schedule, then I am here in New York Friday and Saturday, back to Alaska Sunday. I know many, many, marine biologists who study the bowhead and have absolute respect for the Iñupiat whalers and their hunt. It is a very different thing than The Cove.
Panos, no prob, you’re welcome. I just believe that knowledge is key, if we know we have free choice.
David, good to hear your little folks is all be taken care of.. or been taken care of? English is a wondrous language at times..
DAVID
Thanks for the answer. Get your point.
And about your answer to CT, don’t you think that photographers life have to be interesting in some way to made “personal essay” like Goldin’s or clark’s or even Sanguinetti and most of young photographers life is quite boring. And somehow looking for something “interesting” from one side can be named “exploring the world” from another can be named “spoof boring life for better pictures”.
What you think, when something personal IS PERSONAL and when it is just bluff?
http://fototapeta.art.pl/2003/ngie.php
off for a walk…
I took classes in Russian literature, in Faulkner, whom I love. I took writing classes, I took the history of film, I took drawing to be able to see better, because many photographers cannot see anything.
——————————————–
Nan Goldin
Some of your pictures are blurred. You did it on purpose?
Actually, I take blurred pictures, because I take pictures no matter what the light is. If I want to take a picture, I do not care if there is light or no light. If I want to take a picture, I take it no matter what. Sometimes I use very low shutter speed and they come out blurred, but it was never an intention like David Armstrong started to do what we call, he and I, “Fuzzy-wuzzy landscapes.” He looked at the back of my pictures and studied them. He started to take pictures like them without people in them. They are just out of focus landscapes. He actually did it, intentionally threw the camera out of focus. I have never done it in my life. I take pictures like in here when there is no sun or light that I think all my pictures are going to be out of focus. Even Valerie and Bruno and whatever I take, because there is not enough light, and so I use a very low shutter speed. It used to be because I was drunk, but now I am not. The drugs influenced all my life. Both good and bad. I heard about an artist in Poland, Witkacy, who wrote down on his paintings all the drugs he was on. Depending how many drugs he took, that is how much he charged for the portrait. I saw his portrait at the National Museum, a kind of German expressionism, and I loved it.
———————————————————————-
Nan Goldin
Your approach towards photography is very personal. Is not it a kind of therapy?
Yes, photography saved my life. Every time I go through something scary, traumatic, I survive by taking pictures.
—————————————————-
Nan Goldin
What about music?
Yes, it is very important to me. Now, I am very influenced by Nick Cave. He saved my life, literally.
———————————————————————
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB4p6W5PVuc
“brother my cup is empty”
see ya later
Suzanne
MARCIN…
this is an interesting question…i think the photographers who have something to say will say it regardless of subject matter….what may seem “boring” to some will be fodder for brilliance from others…do you think Sally Mann’s life was any more “interesting” than anyone else on her block in Lexington, Virginia? Sally did not run off to Nepal to become a photographer..she stayed home… do you think Tulsa was a city where most would go to take pictures or did Larry Clark make it seem interesting? “Tulsa” could have been anyplace…most photographers would take one look at Tulsa and keep on driving…or Alessandra’s farm animals? who would guess that farm animals on an obscure farm in Argentina would make a great book? or Nan Goldin’s friends? do you realize how many Nan Goldin type lifestyles there are in New York? there must be thousands of sets of friends like hers…nothing unusual at all….it is Nan who is special, not her circumstances…
sure there are photographers who have taken an inherently dramatic subject and made it even more dramatic like those who photograph war or current events, but most of the long term highly respected essays are coming from photographers who see something special or have something special to say right out of so called everyday life…creating “something” from “nothing” comes from the internal spirit….
i.e.everybody thinks India is a great place to take pictures…India IS inherently dramatic…yet, where are all the great essays from India? lots of great pictures of course….everybody has a great India picture or two…but i mean the real insight, the real human connection…i.e.ever see an essay from India as strong as Tulsa? i am sure you may point to something, but i think you get my point…from an inherent subject matter standpoint there should be dozens of brilliant essays from India, Nepal, Bali, etc etc…photographers by the thousands have trod those grounds..but where is the work? photographers by nature are curious ..they want to “go somewhere” to make photographs…most of them are standing square in the middle of it all along….looking inside is so much more difficult than looking outside..often painful, yet often uplifting…..but inside is where the master artists have always lived…you are a painter, you already know this…
what i do believe is that someone with the true creative spirit just becomes “interesting”…no matter where they are or what they have as a background…they refuse to be “boring”….they create their own “drama”…they must.
cheers, david
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/c.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.BookDetail_VPage&pid=29YL530K0SQR
this is what got me started..
There she goes, my beautiful world… That song has probably saved the lives of many artists.
Bill’s presentation was great, btw. He’s done fantastic work with the Inupiat people. He showed portraits of native Alaskan elders and whaling captains; a 10-year-old boy’s first caribou hunt, and photos from several other hunts, including an incredible expedition for Bullhead whales. The boy’s caribou hunt was in color, the rest in black and white. It provided a window into a fantastical world of ice and cold and insight into how people are able to survive, even prosper, in one of the world’s harshest climates. The landscapes are even more incredible than the people. All together with the hunted animals, they make for some sublime images. Bill must be one of the world’s leading experts on photographing snow and ice. Nary a blown highlight in the bunch. And the people’s respect for the animals was palpable in the photographs. These were no corporate hunts nor hunts for sport. It is a way of life. A way of life, nnot in some romanticized sense but in the context of a very hard reality of humans doing what the must to put food in the stomach and live through a long cold winter where the sun don’t shine.
Thanks Bill. Great work. Great presentation.
EVA…
thanks…i coulda shoulda mentioned Larry Towell above….there are many examples and he is certainly one of them…
MICHAEL…
i rode out a beyond cold dark winter/”spring” myself once with the whale hunters out of Barrow, so i have incredible respect for what Bill (Frostfrog) has done over many years…i am so sorry to have missed the show…read John McPhee “Coming Into the Country” if you have not done so already…he was more in the “banana belt” of Alaska, but you will get the idea..
DAVID,
Of course I think the same, but also I think that if young photographer want to do quickly good stuff have to go to India or Africa. I think in “boring” places you need time to “glue” the story. Don’t forget how long time Goldin and the rest from disscusion need to finish they work.
My life if boring, what is quite good, but also I live in quite freaky town, and for sure it is worth to tell a story about, but also for sure it will take me a long time. This is not a story for digital camera and a month or two work. I have tens of films in my fridge waiting for developing and many more for scanning and I have to say I have not even started. It’s mean I will finish after years.
But I don’t do it for career. I do it, like named it Bob, for self-indulgent. And If I have advice for young photographers I would say; clock is ticking and don’t waste your time. Go to India get best series of photos tomorrow and and after tomorrow start photo career. You will have all your life for personal projects.
but this is my point of view
You gotta do what you can with what you have.. Marcin, there’s lots of photographers coming East, to the Balcans (forget where exactly you live) to do their essays, some great work, I bet someone who knows the place from inside out can do even greater work.. I don’t say it’s more easy, but you’re there, all the time.. lots of people talk and talk instead of working (I’m not saying you do that, speaking more general)..
Very good read on freelance ethics here.
http://georgezimbel.com/press/GeorgeZimbel_vs_NewYorkTimes/
hmmmm…in my heart…I think that if you have it…even if you are in a prison …
you can “arrive” to a visionary oasis. If you lock one “artist” in a cell, he/she will find the way to “produce”, to “arrive”…he/she might commit suicide…But…he/she will “arrive”…hmmm
but what do I know…hmmmm
Anyways…COME ON BURNIANS… show us what you got…
CHARLESP… we need update FELIX and mama
DAVIDB…same for TORCAPA and BEATE
DIMAS …Hello
Good luck…EMCD
GORDON…I will be there…and you will be in my home…we will exchange lambs…ipadded:)))
BRAVO TO ALL MY BURNIANS…FROSTFROG…ENJOY ALLLLL
CATHY …and to all the other philosophers…I am coming with more adjectives…!!!
I see new BURNIANS …Welcome …I am looking for new Vision…BUT Oime …I MISS SO MANY
BURNIANS …
HAPPY EASTER …be happy…whatever you believe in…the Universe …we are All ONE…
after my ouzo…maybe double…
dam-dardam-dammmm-damdammm
Ahhh…I got you KURT…if my weak memory can help me…then
Happy late B-day, mate…
Bill, is there a way we can see the screening from the other side of the planet?
Ah, Civi, you are so wise. I recently attended the opening of a group exhibit at a local art gallery. I was speaking to the curator about two exceptionally original pen and ink drawings — one of which was titled “Institutionalized” — and she told me the artist was in prison for life. His sister had entered his work and told the curator that her brother had found both religion and art in prison.
Yes, the “where” is not important. Art comes from within. It frees us to soar even behind the bars of a “boring” life, a body that cannot walk, or the prison of our own or another’s making.
Happy Easter, Passover, Spring, Equinox, Life or whatever you celebrate…
Patricia
Thank you EVA…that’s a BURNING question??? Come on …papa Bill…show us your vision!!!
OUR PATRICIA…if you only knew …almost everyday …I talk to other people about you and …
You Are An Inspiration…I wish I can express myself like KATIE, BOBB,AKAKY,SIDNEY,REIMAR …and so many
others…BUT…yes, PATRICIA …you Rock …!!!
DAH you wrote “sure there are photographers who have taken an inherently dramatic subject and made it even more dramatic like those who photograph war or current events, but most of the long term highly respected essays are coming from photographers who see something special or have something special to say right out of so called everyday life…creating “something” from “nothing” comes from the internal spirit….”
amen
with regard to India, Mary Ellen Mark’s very moving “Falkland Road” is one exception I can think of.
CIVI, dear, it is YOU who inspires all of us. You are our MUSE.
And now I must leave the computer and venture out into the WIDE WORLD. The sun is shining brightly and our temp isIt is going up to 78 F/25 C here in Detroit. Ah, Spring…
xxooo
Patricia
What Remains: The Life and Work of Sally Mann
I WANT TO THANK EVA…once again..
she saved my day with movie below..what an inspiration..
http://video.yandex.ru/users/alexey-mischiha/view/86/#
OUR PAT …we are All EPICUREANS …now…:)))
off to my lambs…
LOVE PEACE And PHOTOGRAPHY
ooo
its 80 minutes…but it soooooo worth the effort…
SALLY MANN
http://video.yandex.ru/users/alexey-mischiha/view/86/#
MARCIN…
well, we have a different view on this…i would definitely tell a young photographer “do not go to India or Africa”…every curator and editor i know cringes if a photographer tells them they are going to India or Africa to make a mark…yes, it could happen that it really works ,but it is such a cliche and unless the photographer really has something on her/his mind, it will be a big waste of money…
also, do not be confused by photography on demand and personal work…most photographers will never produce on demand…the very best personal work photographers have books and shows the same as the on demand photographers or maybe even more…like Koudelka, d’Agata, Pinkhassov
I suspect a lot of us are better off traveling without a camera before traveling with one.
GORDON…
yes, of course, there are some good essays from India, Mary Ellen’s being one of them…but, most of Mary Ellen’s really very best work is from mainstream America
MICHAEL…
i take my camera everywhere including to the dentist and the grocery store..i rarely shoot in the dentists office, but i am ready!….so, sure travel with your camera….and enjoy….i just think too many photographers put too much of a premium on going “out there” when they should really be thinking “in there”….once you are “in” , then you can go “out”
cheers, david
like Patricia, i am heading out into the spring sun….
DAVID,
Here’s a question that may require a thesis to answer, but a few thoughts would be great to hear.
You wrote, “….looking inside is so much more difficult than looking outside..often painful, yet often uplifting…..but inside is where the master artists have always lived…”
How do you tap into this internal dialogue and then translate whatever ideas come up into an actual project? Is it self-discipline, commitment, confidence?
I have a bunch of ideas right now but committing to one has become difficult. How does an author’s need “to say something” pair with the selection of a theme or subject matter?
ANDREW…
hold that thought…i will answer….i just cannot do it right now…as i said just a minute ago, i must just enjoy this spring day which means leaving the computer..but, your question is a very good one and something i think about all the time…back here early evening with a beginning at least of an answer to your question…
cheers, david
EVERYBODY,
There is a very long, interesting, and important article from last Sunday’s New York Times Magazine by Alana Newhouse on recent discoveries and re-examination of the archive of Roman Vishniac… (forgive me if somebody already linked to this and I missed it):
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/magazine/04shtetl-t.html?pagewanted=1&ref=world
It speaks in a very intelligent and complex way to many of the issues that have come up in this thread about authorship, personal vision, seeking the other, sponsorship, etc. etc. I wish I had the time at the moment to ‘self-indulge’ in my reactions to both this article and to the current thread because I feel this is really interesting and important stuff (and because, as long-term Road Trip afficianados know, my take on all this is, with the greatest respect and humility, quite different than DAH’s), but I am under three (!) big day-job deadlines just now, so please check out the article and the accompanying slide show, and then THINK about what you are reading and seeing. Normally I try not to engage in either undue hyperbole or louche language, but for photographers, this is truly HEAVY SHIT, Boys and Girls!
And I promise to be back as soon as I can with my own response in detail, with examples and illustrations. (Just for a teaser, after you read the article and look at the Roman Vishniac pics, conjure Edward S. Curtis in your mind and run a ‘compare and contrast’ riff with Vishniac).
Cheers to all,
DAVID,
I was reading your sentence “most of the long term highly respected essays are coming from photographers who see something special or have something special to say right out of so called everyday life”… I sometimes wonder if these photographers are always very intentional about what they have to say and want to say or if somehow, they let themselves be driven by their sensibility, emotions and that by capturing what is catching their eye, selecting the photographs that are moving them, they end up creating a body of work that eventually says a lot about who they are… I feel at times that others outside the photographer himself can be better placed to “read” or interprate the message behind the work… Some photographers of course will be very lucid about themselves, what they want to communicate but not everyone has that ability to read his own motives, to look at the mirror… Do you feel it is a prerequisite to be a great photographer to be conscious of the message or “meaning” of one’s work?
Eric
CIVI,
Felix and Mama are great. Felix took his first few steps this week. Like a drunken sailor. Felix essay in the works. Stay tuned. Will submit very soon and then it’s up to the powers that be.
MARCIN,
I’m doing a rock photography camp this summer at the local rock museum (EMP). One thing I’m going to stress is that the best start to learning photography is to start small. I often have young kids that want to start their careers backstage with the Rolling Stones. Sorry, just ain’t gonna happen (doesn’t happen for me why should it for them??). And if it somehow miraculously did they wouldn’t have the licks to capture it. So start in your friend’s basement. Do the work because you like to do it, not for the glory, or money, or to impress art directors. Those will all come if you have the talent and drive. But you won’t know or develop that talent leaving rolls of film undeveloped in the fridge… nudge, nudge, wink, wink. :)
But yes, it is fun to travel and take pictures – I’ve done a lot of it. I love and appreciate those photos and they made me a better photography. But beyond that I’m not sure what they do for anybody else other than a bit of stock here and there and a few print sales… though a major Brazilian newspaper is running an essay of my Vietnam work in their Sunday supplement, but that’s largely due to their young photo researcher being a music photographer. See how that works? Just merely the act of taking a two week or month long trip to an exotic location won’t make your mark unless as DAH says you have that certain something to make it more, to move beyond the veneer of exoticism. And to know how to edit what you’ve done, which when I work with students (and peers) is often the biggest stumbling block. I know it can be for me.
Okay as Bob B says. gotta run!! Really!
Hi David – It’s been a while since I’ve had a moment to sit and type on Burn! I make a point to log in once a week or so just to look at the new essays and projects.
I just saw the comment about traveling with a camera – I always have mine with me too no matter what – and a friend of mine in the admissions office at my college often uses me as an example and he recently met with a potential student who was interested in photography, he mentioned he never sees me without my camera and that I take it everywhere, she was shocked to hear “everywhere!”
There are places I take my camera too and I don’t ever really shoot – but you never know!
On another note – about your student’s work – I wanted to tell you I had a gallery show here with my work from NY and now it’s being published in a college art journal. Thank you again!
I’m working on a handful of projects now all at once. We still need to talk about you visiting here!
Talking about editing (Charles above).. thanks a lot, DAVID AH, been sitting here quite a while now with your pick of my pics.. brain is BURNING ;)
What I think about it generally:
1. Talent is overrated (a lot).
2. hard work is overrated.
3. Fun is overrated.
4. Development in work is underestimated.
5. Time is underestimated.
6. A lot of good luck is underestimated.
7. Social skills is underestimated!!!!
8. context is underestimated.
We all do it for fun, is there a person who do it as a punishment? So fun is not an explanation. Masturbation is for fun, everybody do it, but nobody talks about it. But we always can hide behind fun.
Larry Towells and his family works is not very good example in this topic, because he is famous because he is part of magnum and I am sure in the world are many many photographers who did the same fabulous family pictures and nobody care about it. Nobody knew their names.
I didn’t know Sanguinetti’s works before she was invited to Magnum. And yes, I could be ignorant in that. But magnum’s nominee was fast catch.
errata: talent is overrated ate the beginning, not ate the end of the way.
About the traveling comment, yea, sometimes I prefer a good line to ensuring clarity with sufficient detail. So don’t take that one literally. “Traveling without a camera” doesn’t need to mean traveling without a physical camera. I’m agreeing with the contention that acquiring deeper knowledge of a place is important, most often a prerequisite, for capturing a compelling reflection of it — in photography or any other medium.
Marcin:
“Larry Towells and his family works is not very good example in this topic, because he is famous because he is part of magnum and I am sure in the world are many many photographers who did the same fabulous family pictures and nobody care about it.”
I am not sure, but I’d bet Larry Towell did take pictures of his family way before he joined Magnum or became famous.. and if the work wasn’t any good, it would be in the bin, not in a book.. no matter what his name is or to which association he belongs to.. it’s because he produces great work that he became famous/a member of Magnum, not the other way around..
Eva,
You miss my point, I didn’t say that Towell became a good photographer because he join to magnum, but I know his family work because he is famous as a magnum photographer.
An Towell is not best known by his family work but from Salvador and Israel.
Marcin.
Oh so much to say but going out of town. Back on Monday but I’m sure we’ll be onto something else by then.
Best,
CP
9. Unswerving commitment, or need, is underestimated. (i think this is different than simply hard work)
10. Knowing, and belief, in yourself is underestimated. (healthy ego)
11. Clarity of vision is greatly underestimated.
Marcin, see, I know Towell because of ‘The Mennonoiets’ and his family work, learnt only afterwards he was a Magnum member and only then found the rest of the work.. perhaps there comes in the missunderstanding.. or simply the different POV.
Sidney, interesting read. While there, I also spotted this new multimedia piece at NYT from Alec Soth that is the first of a series from him on continental travels … http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/ash-wednesday-new-orleans/
I’m not sure what to make of it … i’m sure it would be attacked if it appeared on Burn from an emerger … I am looking forward to future installments.
Ah, and it debuted on April 1.
MARCIN;
My life is pretty dull too, but there is a ton of local stuff going on to be interested in. The kid’s lives I’m photographing is WAY more exciting than mine, but it’s just everyday stuff to them.
But even if thing’s seem boring, why not look for the beauty, strangeness of normality? As they say; truth is stranger than fiction! :-)
I was at a mate’s place (his family’s marae) last weekend when all the kids decided to ask if they could ride the horse in the late evening. I managed to shoot some reasonable stuff, but it doesn’t get much more “normal” than that situation!
A couple of weeks ago I spent the night shooting the youth (12-17yrs) mini-stock cars at our local track, I think that there’s a story there in itself. Again pretty normal stuff.
I have a friend who tells me she can’t get enthused about photography unless she travels (she wanted to become a professional photographer), so hasn’t touched her camera since June! Yet she lives 2 blocks away from the main street in one Auckland most multi-cultural suburbs.
When you mention Towell (one of my favourites) etc, they must all have shot work that got them noticed before they were offered Magnum nominee status?
One thing that Burn has taught me is that if I want to look for ideas, then I should look close to home first; ala Patricia, Erica, David McGowan, Audrey…. I still think one of the beauties of a “close to home” subject is that the logistics of seeing it through to completion is so much easier.
I’ve already got a head full of other ideas (all local) ready for when I complete the kids project. The other day one of my friends told me that she’s surprised I’ve kept on track shooting the kids project this past year. This is because she has told me on more than one occasion that my middle name should really be “sidetracked”!
DAVID;
You say that shooting what’s around you is a good place to start. But is it just me, or do you get tired of seeing yet another drug, prostitute etc type essay too? It seems many naturally gravitate towards those subjects in an attempt to get “noticed” too?
Also; one more question! You mentioned many times not to look too far ahead re; publishers when shooting a project. Yet you also said that Mike Young was an excellent businessman for having a publisher lined up for Blues, Booze and BBQ’s right from the get go. I probably misinterpreted the comments, but when do you feel is a good time to sneak out a few feelers (not a hard out push)? Or should you keep the work close to your chest until absolutely finished?
Cheers! :-)
Charles; “start in your friend’s basement”
And that’s where you’ll get your strongest, most meaningful images…. :-) I’m trying to organise a shoot of a couple of youths who live ina real rough part of town who bought all their dj gear cheap from online auctions. Each weekend they are hard-out practicing in their garage. I know I will get better images there than from any “organised” hip hop gig!
Cheers :-)
MARCIN…
laughing…i went down your list and i do not believe any of the things you believe, but of course totally respect your reasons for believing as you do……we both have our reasons for our beliefs….and i gotta love you anyway…by the way, exactly how do you think one becomes a Magnum photographer??
cheers, david
ROSS..
to answer your first question, yes i do get a bit bored with the photojournalism cliches..and , yes, i do think many gravitate towards those subjects to get noticed..oddly, this usually guarantees they will not be noticed….
to answer your second question, in general i think it is a good idea not to think about publication while shooting…when shooting , you should be immersed in shooting…however, on a very long project there are obviously breaks…a time to edit what has been done so far…if this work seems like it may have book publishing possibilities it might not be a bad idea to show the work to a prospective publisher or financier , as did Mike Young…since Mike’s subject was in a very tight shooting area geographically, it was pretty easy for him to make contact with the Blues Museum in Clarksdale, a small town where much of the shooting was taking place, and suggest perhaps that a blues book was forthcoming…they agreed to take on the book since they had so much blues tourist traffic and no book on the blues to sell…this is kind of an unusual situation actually, but it worked…i am still two years away from finishing my American Family work…yet, i have an exhibition in Madrid in a few weeks featuring this work…in my artists statement i declare it a work in progress…i did the same for Div Soul having several exhibitions before a book existed..as a matter of fact because of the exhibit in Perpignan, i was able to start negotiations with Phaidon to do a book…it still took 5 years to make that happen even after it was deemed publishable…
so, at a certain point, sure put out some feelers..doing an exhibit for example will fix in your head exactly where you are..forces you to really deal with what you are doing…forces you to actually look at the work realistically…putting a print up on the wall of a gallery or museum is indeed a declaration of sorts…
cheers, david
MARCIN…
if Larry saw you write that he is best known for his work in Israel, he would be quite upset…Larry is best known for his work with the Palestinians/Palestine and with no doubt of his sympathies…this is not my line in the sand, it is his…
ERIC…
good question…i think most of what is going on with the very best image makers is subconscious…when something “has” to come out , then i think we are dealing with the subconscious…that is certainly what i try to dig out of my students…their subconscious….you can be totally in touch with your inner most and often hidden feelings by simply “letting it all hang out”….
things do come forth in the most magical way when you stop intellectualizing and just let it flow…so, when i say you should have something to “say” it could be journalist literal or esoteric or more likely a combo of the two…the very best photographers have ideas/concepts just racing through their heads 24/7..usually they cannot contain themselves…
for sure, not everyone does have something to say….that is, from a creative standpoint…it is not necessary to be an upstanding citizen on this planet to be a creative person who just must “get it out”…nor is it a prerequisite to be a pro or financially successful…..but since this forum is dealing with mostly young photographers who seek to make a mark, i would not want to let one of them go by who did have the potential for greatness and just needed the window opened up a bit…..no point in me publishing at all if i just wanted to do “trade secrets” or
“how to succeed in professional photography”…David Hobby does it well with The Strobist and there are many others who deal with the practicalities of the business…not me…i will help a photographer find his/her path as a pro if that is what they want, but not before they are totally developed as a real thinker….
whether or not someone else can analyze the work better than the photographer himself is a possibility…this does not mean the photographer had no idea what he/she was doing, but he/she might be so deep inside that the surface realities and historic impact overall could perhaps be best seen or at least written about by someone else…
cheers, david
ANDREW SULLIVAN..
you used “self discipline, commitment, confidence” as possibilities for bringing a project from internalization to reality…these are the standard qualities that serve anyone well for anything…maybe better ascribed to a Marine Corps officer, but not throwaways in the creative world either…however, for the creatives you can add insecurity,fear, no confidence, just to really confuse the issue…
you have earned your living as an on demand photographer…and you have done it well…the only problem with on demand photography is that it can keep you from knowing what you do think..almost every photographer’s problem..when backed to the wall, many often do not really know their own true feelings about many things..they are so so used to being told what they SHOULD think or are in community environments where group thinking is the norm…this allows survival in society of course….and is not a negative…but, it does take away creativity and independent thinking…most specifically on demand means that you have to take a picture of “that” and right “now”….the newspaper photographer trade…if a photographer cannot compartmentalize this work, then confusion of what is personal, what is good, what is work , and what is stylistically representative can collide..
knowing the difference when you have a project that is “doable” and one that is “mandatory” is the key…choosing these is something like taking pictures in the first place…mostly instinctive choice with just a dash of practicality..knowing a good picture when you see it, albeit unplanned, is a bit like knowing which project will take your forward in the most natural way…trying to psyche it out the way you might as a “problem solver” will lead to frustration…
so, in short….have confidence,be committed,crank up the self discipline, but mostly face your fear and realize your insecurity is your finest asset…
there is more, but i must go to dinner….i know you are scratching your head…diabolical am i not??
cheers, david
Thank you David.
so… BURNIANS……
I’m going out to shoot…..
thanks for the inspiration!!!!!
I get so caught up in MOVIEmaking,
that I forget the stills,
and how to tell a story….
my story…
the way I see it….
Although going to a cowboy bar solo,
is a bit tricky,
my CAMERA,
gives me power…..
VIVA
burn…..
XXX
*
JASON…
super congratulations on your gallery show…that must feel good…please send me a photo of the installation…i am proud of you
cheers, david
SIDNEY…
many thanks for the piece on Vishniac, a photographer of whom i know little…fascinating….but you lost me on how that ties in with this thread…anyway i await your explanation and additions …i may make a pot of coffee and stay up an extra hour just waiting for your reply..smiling….i think you and i are often comparing apples and oranges…not disagreement imo, but a problem in identifying exactly the noun of the sentence…we do also have a different sense of respect for certain styles of photography…however, i think we do share the same sense of integrity and responsibility on the part of journalistic photographers…so different styles, perhaps different motives..but, with all respect and humility returned to you amigo..
cheers, david
DAVID,
“Hey Teach’, y’r smokin’!!!”
Reading through the directness, depth, and pungency of your answers above to ROSS, ERIC, and ANDREW, I must doff my beret (not for the first and probably not the last time either) to DAH The MAN as mentor and guide for emerging photographers. Whatever you did today outdoors in the spring weather must have cleaned the pipes, because from here I can see that you are burning clean on all six cylinders. Vrrroooooommm!!!
WENDY…
oh my dear, you in a cowboy bar solo will do just dandy…..
hugs, david
DAVID,
Me again. We just cross-posted.
Please don’t wait up tonite on my account… it’s gonna be several days at least before I can tie my various loose ends together into a coherent (?) statement. I agree that sometimes you and I are talking about apples and oranges, and it may appear even talking at cross-purposes, but I hope you don’t see that as me being hostile or playing the spoiler… or needlessly distracting from or diluting your main message, but rather, hopefully, offering some counterpoint and constructive dissent that may at times broaden the discussion and keep people THINKING BIG THOUGHTS about photography and visual (as well as written!) communication… I’m fairly confident that one thing we do agree on is that photography is wide, vast, and has unplumbed depths, and the more we look at it, practice it, and think about it in different ways, the more there is to discover.
SIDNEY…
hey wait, the coffee did not even finish brewing!!
your reference to “six cylinders” reminds me of my in line 6 cylinder ’53 Chevy with spun aluminum moons on the rear wheels, half hidden by fender skirts. and ’55 Oldsmobile spinners on the front..3″ lowering blocks too….i “decked” the hood and put on a two barrel carb and shaved the head…split the exhaust manifold and double glasspacks gave me the sound i wanted…man was i cool in school!!(don’t worry, i didn’t know it)…Leica 111F in an army gas mask bag laying on the back seat added the final touch..point is, it has been all downhill since….
cheers, david
DAH.
I guess I missed you “Live on burn” this evening. A good run.
When you next have a chance please keep going with your thesis on authorship.
Even if the original questioner doesn’t come back there are many passing thru here each day who will want to read more. I don’t think anyone can hear about it enough.
A thought on the topic of “Don’t go to India or Africa if you want to avoid cliche”.
How about instead…GO to India or Africa if you want to challenge yourself to go beyond the obvious.
Just wondering if any body knows if there are phony SKYPE sites to be wary of… ?
I’ve logged on an account with ( SKYPE ? ) but forgot my password… When I click on “forgot my password” my Safari warning system comes up..”can not verify “secure.skype.com” and says..’the certificate for this website was signed by an unknown certifying authority’ .. and warns against using it as it may not be secure..
Can anyone suggest what this means, and should I make a “new account”. And if so, how can we tell a phony “skype site” from a authentic one?
Any help, as usual, is greatly appreciated.
thanks guys and hope to be back participating in dicussions soon. Missed them very much over past month or two, only getting the chance to pop in and check out the essays, which I have to find time even if jumping on a internet cafe.
Cheers. Peter.
CATHY..
well,of course you know i believe that as well…and i didn’t mean to pick on India…i love India and would go back anytime to shoot…i was simply making a point and i think this you know…and i know you are very well aware of this challenge…we had even talked about this before…anyway, please show me the pics!!
i think i must really actually be a lousy teacher…explaining authorship should be easier than i make it…funny, it seems so simple to me and i often get unnecessarily frustrated when someone does not understand what i am trying to say…maybe i should go back and edit down all that i have written about authorship and cast the damn thing…in any case, i will keep going at it…hey here is another way to look at it…you have created a personality here on Burn..with words…we all know a “Cathy comment” when we read it…it is actually your personality in real life…now, just do the same thing with pictures…the language of pictures is newer to you than is English, but just use the new language in the same way…show us “Cathy pictures”
ok, that is it for the night…oh wait, fresh hot pot of coffee out there..Sidney’s fault…goodnight..i will nuke a cup in the morning..
cheers, david
David; Drive an old 1990 Camry stationwagon, 290,000kms on the clock. No chance of being cooooool! :-)
DAH.
“maybe i should go back and edit down all that i have written about authorship and cast the damn thing…”
Just take it and put it in somewhere as a link on burn…and then publish it :))
As I’ve mentioned before this would be a good book for you.
You are far from lousy as a teacher.
The advice you just gave me above was GREAT! Another way of saying what you always say. I know someone who asks “How many ways can you say the same thing?”
Well, you just came up with another good one…late on a Friday night :)) Ok, goodnight.
great discussion…
I think a vital ingredient in the mix is a sense that you can see something that you feel is important, and even urgent , to convey to everybody else. This more so than technical skill i feel is uppermost as its this drives everything else.
I also feel this is a vital ingredient to authenticity. I’d like to think a little more, and read more of all your thoughts as there is always many things I’ve not thought of but I feel strongly about that point of have a sense of ‘wanting to share’ what you see because you can feel its important, to varying degree’s, or beautiful, or Spiritual even. Whatever its is that makes you want , and feel the need, to share this thing your observing…
as an analogy, could it be like music. You know when you feel overwhelmed in the beauty or the message of a piece of music and are compelled to share it whether it be an exotic piece to our ears, or more contemporary. And then, on top of that, you can’t resist going out and discovering more of that genre or artist. Is that an analogy you could use?
cheers. Peter.
David
Thank you very much! I will have to find an image to show you! I had a pretty nice opening as well!
As for the 53 Chevy – WOah! You never came across as a car guy! Thats very cool! I haven’t had anything that nice yet – but I used to drive around a moderately modified Eagle Talon – I did nearly everything I could to it without upgrading the Turbo on it. What fun that was…
I’ve was tossing around the idea of photographing one of my old car clubs when I’m free from the school work – but I found that all of the clubs I was once a active in have dissolved…
I’m working on a project photographing the town I live in – Would you be able to help me assemble it when I’m finished shooting sometime next spring?
All,
I develop my list;
1. Why I think talent overrated.
Because there is a huge % of people with talent who never will use this talent. Of course all famous photographers are full of talent, but many people full of talent will do nothing. I’ve seen that many times in art (I meet a few genius and they disappear) and I see the same in photography now.
2. I meet all the time people who work non stop but they can’t catch “this thing” and probably never will but I will keep fingers cross for them.
3. Fun…. well we do it all for fun. I do it for fun for sure, I spend a lot of money for photography, money I don’t have, so for sure I have a big pleasure when I push the button, otherwise I could be insane, And I think there is no one person in this audience who don’t have a fun taking pictures. James Nachtwey do it for fun. Tooo obvious to talk about it.
4. Most fast and valuable development of talent is during the job. If you work you even not notice when you learn, how fast you learn, and how many ideas you are able to realize.
6. Good luck is always underestimated. Well, good luck we need with all levels of development ours skills, when we start learn, when we work, when we want to show it anybody. And this point is for me unquestionable. I’ve seen a lot of great works, and there is a lot examples in past where a piece of luck allowed to occur a lot of art pieces (all kind of arts)
7. social skills… This is needed in all kind of work, art, business, photography, literature, IT ect.
8. Context. Well… we talk here about magnum’s photographers but there is a 60 persons there. And what about the rest of the world? How many photographers out there are very talented but we don’t know about it.
DAVID,
I know why you don’t agree with me. Because you are at the end of this way. Of course all magnum photographers are full of talent, they worked hard, they produce great personal projects, and they have all the point above, but we see it as a result not as a beginning. Because as I said, and I am sure of that, there are full of talented people who will never are part of magnum and will never hang on new york’s gallery. Some point was missed and they not exist in photo world.
And my personal request, I hope you don’t mind, If this year Rafal Milach, polish photographer you know probably will send a portfolio to magnum please look at it carefully because he is enough talented to be magnum nominee for sure.
And about political sympathies:
I am poles so it is obvious I sympathize with Palestine’s independence struggle the same as it it obvious I sympathize with Israel’s fight for surviving and existence.
For me 1:1
It could be great if Magnum could have finally polish photographer and for sure Milach will be very valuable with his east works.
Marcin
“Because there is a huge % of people with talent who never will use this talent”
True, but this can be explained either because
a. they are too lazy to use it
b. they haven’t realised they have it
If they are simply too lazy then you have to give some credit to those who are spending time on their talent and trying to push it forward.
Those who are using their talent = those who work hard
On the other hand; I believe there is not a person on this earth who has an unused/undiscovered talent as I write this. Maybe I would be really good at golfing or mountain climbing, but I have to admit, I simply couldn’t be bothered to find out.
“I meet all the time people who work non stop but they can’t catch “this thing””
You’re speaking in codes here now, what thing?
“James Nachtwey do it for fun. Tooo obvious to talk about it.”
What’s wrong with something that is obvious? I think people complicate things far too much and forget the obvious things that they really should have in mind. If someone asks me why I love photography so much, “fun” would indeed be the answer. Because there is no other answer for me.
Fun? Yes, that too, but there’s much more, call it passion, call it need, urge, don’t know, it’s a bug in there.. only for fun, I don’t think–
Leica 111F
http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/entry_C503.html
Well, I did put it too simple, but either way “fun” is always related to what drives the whole process.
A passion is fun
I need it mostly because it’s fun
I have an urge for it because it’s fun
http://www.specialtysales.com/galleria_images/1963/1963_main_f.jpg
GO to India or Africa if you want to challenge yourself to go beyond the obvious.
—————————————————————-
Cathy ;)
great advice for a young emerging photographer on a budget and couple mouths to feed…
also…buy a z06 corvette as a STARTING (all around) car…
your corner gas station will be thrilled…
:)))
ohhh…and dont forget your STARTING (all around) camera
http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/white-leica-m8.jpg
(Cathy once again, u made my day..big hug)
Just want to say how much I just enjoyed reading the comments here on burn about authorship and the difficulties to avoid cliché images in exotic countries.
David, you say on twitter you didn’t do a thing yesterday. Well, whatever it was, I think it was just brilliant to do nothing and then write these posts. A great help to me! Explaining authorship is never easy, but I feel your response is one of the best answers I could ask for.
In my thinking about my own photography which is right now mostly to create images on demand, I notice that my own voice is almost mute. My images that I take for work might wisper a little about me, maybe? So where is my own work, my own voice? Silence. Fear, insecurity, doubt – yes, certainly this makes me hestitate. To speak out loud is something that happens very rarely in my image talk. This I have noticed very much. But I like to talk and I like to share my thoughts and ideas and observations. If I can do this with images, that would be great.
Yesterday I spent almost the entire evening watching the film about Sally Mann almost twice. Panos, thank you for this great link! The film shows the ups and downs of being an artist.
So, what is the conclusion? I guess there is no other way than getting out and look for my own voice and start writing some lines. Sally Mann quotes Hemmingway: “A first sentence is always the beginning.”
David, I hope we have a chance to talk on Skype perhaps in the coming week if your time allows it. I would be glad to meet you.
About taking images in exotic countries.
I have to admit that a new surrounding stimulates me more. At home I am in a familiar environment, in my den. Perhaps too lazy. When I am out in a new place like India, meeting new people I am more outgoing and open, more curious, more awake, closer to my senses. That doesn’t neccessarly make good images, but it provokes my mind way more and also my need to speak. Hard to explain. However the truth is also that I can take good images right in front of my doorstep.
No doubt – my mind is thinking. I have to gnaw on this for a little while… I am on my way!
Sun is out. Time to go out and get the Easter fire ready!
Happy Easter!
Reimar
“GO to India or Africa if you want to challenge yourself to go beyond the obvious.”
No need to travel for that, go beyound the obvious in your own backyard, not as easy as it seems.. and passion is yes, fun, but also a curse sometimes..
It could be great if Magnum could have finally polish photographer
———————————————————
Marcin…whats up with all this nationalism? Is magnum a soccer team? Dream team , maybe…!!
smiling
another economical camera for even Tighter budget…or the “poor mans camera”..
Works best in africa and india… ;)
http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/special_editions/leica_M8-2_safari/
Ross…
although a mustang lover…
im in this point of my life that i think that the sexiest car of all times is the:
“no car at all”..
;)
Sun is out. Time to go out and get the Easter fire ready!
Happy Easter!
Reimar
———————————-
Sun is out? in Germany?…ha ha ..now that reason alone is enough to celebrate…;)
1pm in grecolandia.. 11 hours left for Jesus’s newest version of resurrection..(version 11.0)
new firmware also (v.3.1.4) with faster HD video…
Hallelujia..
Panos,
It have nothing common with nationalism I truly believe in Milach’s photography as a very unique and I am sure he will be very valuable in magnum, also I am sure that the nomination will give his photography wind for doing it even better.
I could say I have a strong hunch about him,
But damn! Who not?!
Marcin…
although i like Milach..i think he is too commercial…
i’d rather see YOU in magnum
( and by the way that would also fulfill your request about polish photogs in magnum, right? )..
big hug
;)
Panos,
Do you think they need someone who will made a coffee? lol
BTW, I think Milach try survive not be commercial.
MARCIN…
i do not disagree with you because i am “at the end of this way”…i promise you that if you read anything i wrote or said when i was in my early twenties, it would be exactly the same thing…my philosophy has been continuous, which may be exactly why i am “at the end of this way”…
cheers, david
DAH
“knowing the difference when you have a project that is “doable” and one that is “mandatory” is the key…choosing these is something like taking pictures in the first place…mostly instinctive choice with just a dash of practicality..knowing a good picture when you see it, albeit unplanned, is a bit like knowing which project will take your forward in the most natural way…trying to psyche it out the way you might as a “problem solver” will lead to frustration…”
that’s exactly where I’m currently stuck: intellectualizing a project about my own territory…damn I usually feel when I get a good picture but no way to find the “right” clue and get started… frustrating, yes.
“an army gas mask bag”
how cool is that? so the quest for the perfect bag started at that time ;)
PANOS
id get another one of those Leica Hermes cams… it matches my scarf.
ps. how come most Easter eggs are sweet and none barbecued?
DAH,
how bout those: “I dont have time to complete a project… so i never start”
mostly my reason. but i think i lack confidence. i think a picture is good but wont show it to anybody, afraid to be shot down. my frustration: i have some pictures in my head, but cant make it happen so too, i know i lack skill. so my project never happens because i never shoot, for reasons that i claim i dont know but actually deny.
MARCIN..
there are no doubt geniuses sitting on every bar stool from San Fransisco to Warsaw….and???
not sure of your point…
are you saying there are brilliant photographers out there who are unrecognized and if they only had luck and social skills they would be?? i know a lot of the photographers we mention here…most without many social skills…and luck? well, i think we all have some good luck and some bad…the lucky ones are the ones who seem to make their own luck more than others…focusing or obsessing on who has luck and who does not will guarantee that you have bad luck…better imo to take your “lucky day” and stretch it out as long as you can..and on your “bad luck” day, just ride it out…
at Magnum we are constantly in search of new talent….i am personally always looking for talent…from any country….i do not recall Milach ever applying to Magnum…..Rafal would apply to our Paris office since he is in Europe and might not , for whatever reason, made it through the screening there, but i have never seen his portfolio brought to our annual meeting where we choose photographers…nor any Polish photographer…nor Portuguese photographer….nor Filipino photographer…etc etc…we do not choose photographers by nationality….there is no quota system in Magnum….or any agency that i know of…but for sure if a photographer does not submit a portfolio, then how could they get in? i do agree with Panos….Milach appears to be more commercial than otherwise…
cheers, david
DAVID,
My point of view (more pessimistic) will change nothing, Your will for sure, so lets stick with yours.
I hope you don’t mind me this lobbying :)
peace
GRACIE…
nice to have you back here…i would certainly love to see what you do…i will not “shoot you down”…i will give an honest but i hope constructive critique…send me a link on skype ..the best way…that way we can chat about it etc….
i think sometimes our discussion here is aimed at those whose aims are high…but there is plenty of room for photographers who simply want to move their work forward , but do not see themselves publishing the next great book etc etc…i do not excel at any of my hobbies..sailing, tennis,etc..well, i can flip the Frisbee with some of the best..but point is, i love many activities and would like to move forward on the skill levels attached to each, but with no intention of anything but pure enjoyment to come out of it…i think for most photography is like that…and why not?? so let me see what you do and tell me what you would like to do….we might just be able to find a path for you…
cheers, david
MARCIN…
i have loved our discussions for the last three years..or four? it is not about your way or my way…i 100% respect your opinions on everything….this is just banter…healthy….the reason we are all here on Burn….you are more pessimistic than i would wish for you and i think pessimism eats eats eats away at the soul….i want to see your smiling face and we owe each other a skype call…i can do it now if you want….
cheers, david
I just read you comment; of course this is irrelevant that Milach is from Poland, it is a benefit for me only, I should not write it.
dah,
thanks. but i better cross the i’s and dot the t’s or something like that before i take up any of already your divided time. but will do…send link that is.
Gracie.. :)
“true story”…
my mother yesterday got in the room (holding a red Easter painted Egg) really Amazed…”miracle, miracle…Jesus is here”..
she was keep repeating..
To make the long story short.. Every year(easter) she saves one (boiled/red painted) egg and places it next to a Jesus’s framed picture/painting in a special little candle box…well she opened that box , took the old egg out and she insists that the egg is still FRESH… no smell..no rot..no nothing..
Hmmm..that gave me a good idea to prank my mother…
So i took my laptop,hid it under her bed, ..and after she felt asleep… i put this video as loud as possible..Of course u know what happened next….he he
enjoy:…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4n9vK0_mdk
(start at the 0.21 second )
Beware of the Catholic Church..
“..Anneliese Michel likely died of lack of basic medical care during an “exorcism” by two parish priests. Originally diagnosed with gran mal seizures she was treated with epilepsy medication. The medication had little effect and Anneliese claimed to be possessed by demons, 6 to be exact. After her death a courtroom drama ensued in which Annaliese’s parents and parish priest were charged with negligent manslaughter and sentenced them to six months in prison, suspended with three years’ probation…”
Ernst Alt and Arnold Renz performed the rite 67 times over the first half of 1976. Some of the sessions took up to four hours. Forty-two sessions were recorded on tape.
At some point she began talking increasingly about dying to atone for the wayward youth of the day and the apostate priests of the modern church, and refused to eat. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.
She, her parents and the exorcists decided to rely completely on exorcism. By the time Michel died of starvation, she weighed only 68 pounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr-IdHU3A5M&feature=related
(happy Easter y’all..;)
PANOS…
your poor poor mother!! i cannot imagine what you have done to her over the years…only to be matched by my poor mother…mothers do put up with a lot…saints all….Happy Easter…i am going to cook up some eggs for breakfast…
GRACIE…
ok…whenever you are ready
cheers, david
mothers do put up with a lot…saints all…
——————————–
aint that right?…he he..best sports all around
Oh mamma mia… just finished to tidy up my shelf.. long time overdue.. counted them, I have 167 photography books, or related to photography.. not counting the magazines though.. the smallest (in size) is ‘Flandrien’ by Stephan Vanfleteren, the biggest MAGNUMMAGNUM.. ok, make that 170, just remembered there are three out on loan. I think I need a life..
Eva…
start with a quick visit to the vatican…see the Pope…
leave all those heretic books aside..
start with the Holy Bible…
(dont follow my path..church service in 5 hours from now…it starts at midnight here..and i already started drinking…;)
ABELE…
the military gas mask bag was the perfect camera bag as far as i was concerned…all of us used them…well, mostly because it was all i could afford…probably $5. or something like that…and unobtrusive too…the “rich” photographers all used those Brady trout fishing bags..the ones that evolved into Billinghams….
i am going to be in Italy in july..any chance we meet?
cheers, david
the military gas mask bag was the perfect camera bag as far as i was concerned…
——————————————————————
hmmm..i wish i had one of those in the recent athens demo/riots…
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF18?authkey=Gv1sRgCP2vg7qtn8b78QE#5412559442388164722
or one of those…
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/JPEG04#5447440027180297810
“leave all those heretic books aside..”
Panos, try again.. ;)
eva. MAGNUMMAGNUM is the perfect book. Right now mine has ten prints flattening inside it, and about ten more underneath it drying in blotters…perfect.:)
john
I’m afraid I don’t get the difficulty people have understanding the concept of authorship. David explains it very well and succinctly. It’s true I went to a similar J-school and studied many of the same photographers — Gene Smith, Cartier-Bresson, Frank, the FSA crew — and I don’t doubt that classic J-school education is a good starting point, but the issue is the same in any art and I’d think it would be stultifying to limit oneself solely to the study of photographers. Read Faulkner’s The Sound and the Fury; or if you want something easier, Hamsun’s Pan; or if you want something more current, Saramago’s Seeing (for you Panos, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ); or if you want something more Latin American, Vargas Llosa’s The Real Life of Alejandro Mayta; or if you want something current US American, try Auster’s New York Stories; or if you prefer something absolutely sublime, go for Italo Calvino’s Invisible Cities. Or pick your own poison. There are abundant lessons on authorship in any library or museum.
I just can’t help noting that almost all great authors, no matter how much their visions or art forms vary, have one thing in common. They have mastered the tools of their trade. So even if we can think that deeply, we also need to be able to craft a sentence or light a photograph as well as the best of them. Understanding the concept of authorship is easy. But the ability to be an author doesn’t just fall off a tree and hit us on the head. We have to climb the tree.
john! exactly.. used to put them into ‘Inferno’, but it never felt quite right..
John..
about the prints getting flattened inside…can u tell me which photographers you chose to do the flattening job?
im just making sure you are not the next one for the exorcism ceremony..
and thanks to NAT GEO…Exorcism in INDIA…
this one goes to who else? but CATHY!!!!
BBCWorldwide — October 02, 2008 — Was the red rain in India evidence of alien microbes from deep space? Does that explain how life started on Earth? Are we all aliens? Or was the red rain just unusual red algae from the Indian waters? You make your own decisions with this video from BBC Horizon show ‘We are the aliens’.
——————————————————————–
one more video for Cathy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xccamQ3aQzs&feature=related
..and one more question that only Cathy can answer:
“Was the red rain in India evidence of alien microbes from deep space? “
DAH
“i am going to be in Italy in july..any chance we meet?”
It would be great! I know you will be full-time busy with the TPW workshop: no way I can attend it (vacation periods are so few that they are sacred to the family ;), but are there any events/moments open to external people? I will happily drive all my way back and forth to Tuscany (no six cylinders yet)
ABELE
in fact there are slideshows in the evening which are open for the public, and it is actually a most wonderful time, when everybody comes together after a day out shooting, for talking and discussing while having a wine or two … When I was there it was even possible to join in for dinner.
There were slideshows every night … the last night being reserved for the student works. It was fabulous! Simply perfect. Partially because there was no internet there and only if you dangerously leaned over the walls of the monastery, you could get a faint signal for your mobile. We often feared for DAH, as he was amidst buying his beach house … and constantly having to check for messages. Thank god he is such a long man, he just had to strech out a bit.
Actually I am thinking of going there myself this July. Would be fun. Also because I have not had the chance to see much of the surroundings the last time. I did go by train, so I had little chance to explore the region. Also because we were pretty busy while doing the workshop. I did wish I could have stayed some more days there after it was over, but just as you said: free days are scarce.
I hape it all works out and we manage to meet. Would be great!
a “tall” man is probably the correct term :)
abele, Lassal, DAH, whoever coming to Tuscany, just let me know if you need a pick up, tour, drive or help..
Regarding a discussion we had awhile back about unpaid internships, this article was in today’s New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business/03intern.html?ref=todayspaper
Food for thought…
Patricia
Eva,
thanks!
PANOS; “Ross…although a mustang lover…im in this point of my life that i think that the sexiest car of all times is the:“no car at all”..;)”
Try that in NZ with its crap public transport system! :-) Anyway, someone tried to steal my car a while ago; so there is obviously someone less cool than me around. Didn’t think that was possible… :-)
Patricia..
hmmm..internships…free labor…very sad and very TRUE..
Ross…
2 years ago i use to have a second car…a little 87 honda accord..gas saver
comparing to the mustang..
guess what…they tried to steal it 3 times…
camrys are the no1 target for thieves in america…reason? parts..!
PANOS; “camrys are the no1 target for thieves in america…reason? parts..!”
Subaru Legacy’s here. All the boy-racers love them!! So a BIG market for them…
Are you stil heading off to Beirut?
LASSAL, EVA
thanks! let’s try to organize an Italian BURN rendez-vous for next July, then ;)
Ross..im afraid that good times …family visit …is kinda over…
i stretched it as much as i could…time to return to reality….
california dreaming…
all the leaves are brown
and the sky is grey
I’ve been for a walk
on a winter’s day
I’d be safe and warm
if I was in L.A
California Dreamin’
on such a winter’s day
stopped into a church
I passed along the way
well, I got down on my knees
and I pretend to pray
you know the preacher likes the cold
he knows I’m gonna stay
California Dreamin’
on such a winter’s day
all the leaves are brown
and the sky is grey
I’ve been for a walk
on a winter’s day
if I didn’t tell her
I could leave today
California Dreamin’
on such a winter’s day x3
MICHAEL W. and All
You are absolutely right about there being great examples of authorship in all of the arts.
My example is much more lowbrow than yours but I am working on my first “official” blog post for my new blog tentatively titled..
“What I learn about photography by watching American Idol”
Seriously :))
There is no better way to see what it takes to be a great singer than by watching someone butcher a song.
ROSS,
Keep rockin’ that Camry! My brother has a ’94, and still drives the shit out of it! Great cars (plus we build them in Kentucky for the US market :-)
My personal ride is a ’92 Volvo 240 with over 206K miles. I hope if I keep it long enough, it will be cool again (like plastic-rimmed glasses)… It still has the original struts, which doesn’t affect handling too bad, but causes my CD player to skip over bumps… I offered it to my 11 year-old when she starts driving, but she wants a Chevy HHR or a PT Cruiser.
DAH,
Thank you for the kind words for those of us that simply want to move forward, and realize that we will never be at a pinnacle of photography but still enjoy it as a personal pursuit… I’m 37, but don’t really feel that I have found my “voice”, but still enjoy making photos.
As a personal analogy: I realized long ago that I enjoy banging around on my Fender Telecaster, but I won’t be going on tour and have yet to write any songs of my own. Yet, it’s something that I love doing on my own terms – and want to get better at…
PANOS,
Thanks for thinking of me with the videos :))
I’m no expert on alien microbes but I was just at a religious ceremony in India that was a bit like the exorcism. Men started beating themselves with chains..I was right behind them and one guy hit me in the head with his chain. Does that mean my bad spirits were driven away too?
JUSTIN: “CD player to skip over bumps” You’ve got a CD player in your car? A sure sign of wealth! A broken tape deck in mine :-)
CATHY; Your song/music analogy applies to photography too. I certainly think photography and music are twins that somehow became separated at birth. The best, most influential musicians certainly have authorship. Sure they may have been inspired by what went before, but they twist it and meld it until it becomes their own.
For example; the authorship factor is what I like about hip hop and rap here in NZ. Here, rap has a real Polynesian feel and component to it. This is because NZ has such a huge Pacific Island population (mostly from Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, Niue etc). So instead of trying to be wannabe gangstas they have melded it into something unique.
Sure they were influenced by US rap, and there is still a gangsta rap influence, but rap here has been melded into something new.
As an aside; I’ve been getting into short films lately and am finding them so inspiring. I used to think “short films? Load of rubbish!” As you may have guessed I’ve done a 180 on that blinkered view.
One channel here plays a (local NZ) short film every Thursday night and then talks to the producer about the film for ten minutes or so. I’m amazed how well a story can be told in such a short period of time; it certainly provides food for thought.
ROSS: Yep, busted tape deck prompted my (self)installation of the least expensive decent CD player I could find… Gotta have tunes :-)
I recently came across a post on the Rangefinder Forum regarding the French short film La Jetée (1963). I haven’t checked it out for myself yet, but I understand most of it was shot as stills on a Pentax Spotmatic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jet%C3%A9e
ROSS
short films rubbish?
glad you see the light….
:)
ABELE..
please come to visit me in Tuscany…i will make sure you are a welcomed guest….
cheers, david
Speaking of big time authorship and film, are you all familiar with Hayao Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli? We just finished watching Ponyo for the third time. Saw it twice on the big screen and now on cable. His movies bear repeated viewings. If you’re not familiar with Studio Ghibli, Spirited Away is a great place to start. Or Howl’s Moving Castle. Miyazaki has total creative control. Writes and draws them all. He’s crazy good. When it comes to authorship, I’d say few are in his league and nobody is out of it.
Apropos of that, I guess, I just remembered I cut out a clip for someone a few years ago. This is from Porco Rosso, a much earlier film, but it gives a taste.
Cathy, although I may discuss the larger issues that have been brought up in the context of your India work, I’ve never made any kind of comment about you or it. Not having seen it or heard you discuss it in depth, there’s really nothing I could say. I enjoy reading your comments though, and the way you discuss India, and hope to see the work some day.
First – Michael: thanks for the good words.
David – It would have been such a thrill for me if you could have been there, but one day I will meet you. I have applied for a certain grant and if by some small chance I get it, I will apply a good portion of it to going to one of your book-making workshops.
Eva – not yet in any coherent since, but sooner or later…
Now – As to this stuff about India, God, it’s a wonderfully visual place! When I was there I came up with this theory that a blind man could be a good photographer in India and so I closed my eyes and just pointed the camera here and there and shot pictures and, sure enough, came up with a few decent images.
But, while in some ways it might be scarier, there is as much photographic potential in anyone’s home community, small or large, anywhere in the USA or elsewhere as there is in India, Africa or any exotic place.
Because I now have Indian inlaws who have become very close to me, and other friends there, too, my blog also happens to have a number of regular India readers, several of whom have let me know that it has gave them a great longing for and desire to come to that wonderful, exotic, mysterious place known as Wasilla, Alaska, USA.
And some want to come to the Arctic with me, too.
I should add that two, in fact, did come to Wasilla and I did, in fact, take them to the Arctic as well – and they claimed that to be the thrill of their life and when I was last in India, I went into their house and there the photos of it, prominently displayed liked trophies upon their wall.
They bring their friends in and tell them about it and they marvel.
Bill, this might be of interest to you, perhaps you know him/the book already:
http://www.buehler-fotograf.ch/
http://www.kontrast.ch/verlag/einblicke_inuit.htm
can’t find it in English..
DAVID
how are you?
please make sure you visit me in Florence when you come to tuscany :)
brrrr..
a little further north in the land of melting snow..
grandparents.. family.. friends.. cognac.. wine.. beer.. cognac and wine.
looking inside and out..
beate has a terrific hangover..
home tomorrow
d
EVA..FRANCESCO..ABELE…
for sure a gathering of some sort with us in july is a must…
Was away from the Internet for a couple of days…
Panos: Camrys stolen in the US end up in one piece in Cambodia.
Frostfrog…
really sorry i missed you – i was headed out the door to the alaska house when something came up and am only checking back in now..i do hope you understand that i too have respect for the way / reasons of the hunt, I was only talking about my sensitivities, which are far different from my intellectual understandings. in any case, very glad michael made it and hopefully there will be more opportunities for us to meet.
David,
Diabolical you are. But thank you for making me think. It’s become clear over the past couple of years how relying on technique can only take a photographer so far until the limitations of thought kick in to reveal a lack of vision. Conceptual thought is the hard stuff.
Your observations about the consequences of shooting on demand without compartmentalizing the work apart from personal vision are spot on. I haven’t separated the two enough, and I’m paying the price creatively for not allowing my feelings and thoughts to lead me.
I’m heartened to read your words, “realize your insecurity is your finest asset.” With that in mind, I’m wealthy beyond my wildest imagination. Do you mean to use that insecurity as fuel for the drive to go deeper into a project and to stoke original thought and personal vision?
Now if I don’t stop writing this note, Jen’s going for a bike ride without me.
Andrew
ANDREW SULLIVAN…
basically yes…your insecurities are valuable because they give you something to overcome..and man is best when faced with basic adversity…and if you do not get on that bike right now and ride with Jen, you will be faced with THE most basic adversity…
going now to do the same…
cheers,david
Wow, so quiet here… ?
here’s a picture from today to fill the emptiness
http://marcinluczkowski.com/photonews/_LUC4508.jpg
PANOS, EVA,
My comment about going to India/Africa etc and KNOWING that it is tough to avoid cliche was not meant as a suggestion that EVERYONE go and challenge themselves this way.
Believe me, I don’t want them there! At least not where I am :))
Of course it is better for most to stay home and challenge themselves…especially if they have no money or time for travel.
I’m just saying that if you MUST go to these places then go with the intention of rising above cliche.
I gave up India for three years (for financial reasons) to shoot in my backyard but if I can afford it I’m going to be in India…photography or no photography.
I’m not going there because of the photos I can take. I’m taking photos because I am there.
CATHY…
good answer
DAH, EVA, LASSAL, FRANCESCO and whoever is around Italy
let’s try to organize this BURN(IN)ITALY meeting in the coming weeks/months… maybe the most suitable date is the final weekend of the workshop, friday (July 23rd) or saturday (July 24th)… let’s keep in touch!
That would be great, ABELE!
I’ll definitely be around in july, you guys that you are/come to Italy can contact me anytime and we will organize that
it would be cool to meet and party together!
cheers
Michael Webster,
“Laputa” too is a good movie by Miyazaki imo.. i have not seen “Spirited Away” yet, though
Easter fire
This evening my family gathered having a barbecue at our mill. Several beers and Bratwursts later we tried to get the Easter fire going but without much success. The wood was too wet. Can you imagine – I couldn’t even set a piece of paper on fire properly? Not one decent pyromanic in the family… We gave up and decided to give it another try tomorrow.
While going home we saw many other Easter fires burning and then my mother got really stubborn. There was some fuel left in the shed, which is supposed to be used with the lawn mower… with a rather big quantaty of that liquid we set that baby on fire. Holy smokes! That was a fire! And a sight to see!
Meanwhile it was dark and the flames set the entire place into a nice red glowing light. The reflections on the water of the pond were amazing. We watched in awe and thought – wow! Took lots of pictures… will post a link tomorrow. I never had such a beautiful Easter fire!
Reimar
Reimar
Looking forward to next year! :)
Rocking and rolling here in San Diego. Anyone else feel the earthquake?
It’s the biggest one I’ve ever experienced.
CATHY…
didn’t feel a thing here….well, California is going under water one of these days after a massive earthquake, and here on the Carolina shore we are going under water one of these days during a cat5 hurricane…not to mention that global warming water levels could get us first…yes, we are crazy to live here, but not as crazy as the folks who continue to expand their neighborhoods under Mt.Vesuvius (nice view)…..well, i suppose they think like i think…nah, not today…
i thought you lived in Santa Fe..???
just heard 7.5 in Baha..guess you weren’t kidding
DAH:
I just wanted to post a quick comment letting you know how much I appreciate your answer to my question regarding authorship/points of view in photography. I had the unfortunate timing to post my question to you last Thursday right before I went on a three day road trip without any internet access, so haven’t been able to respond yet :) just got back, unpacking now, and in desperate need of a shower. I need to digest your answer and other related comments that followed, but will post longer response tomorrow. Thanks again!
cheers
Carsten (CT)
Eva – Thank you for the link. I enjoyed it.
Erica – Even though you did not make it, I am greatly pleased to learn that you headed out the door intending to come.
DAH, “not as crazy as the folks who continue to expand their neighborhoods under Mt.Vesuvius” – yes, I’ve been there – not exactly everyone’s first choice of neighbourhood is it! I believe that there is an evacuation plan in case of eruption but, considering that the authorities can’t get people to wear seat belts in cars or ride scooters with less that three people on board, good luck with that one.
I love Italy and the Italian mind-set. Whenever I return to England from there I’m always struck by how many rules are imposed on the English; everything from speed limits, parking restrictions, CCTV monitoring etc. The one that gets me is the “Look Right” painted on the edge of the road to remind us to look for traffic before crossing the road. The next one will be “Careful, it’s dangerous outside”.
Mike.
There’d be much to say about people keep on buidling near riverbeds, even if every other year mudslides will come down the hills.. Mike, the ‘look right’ is very helpful for us folks driving on the CORRECT side of the road ;))
Cathy (hope everything is ok, just read about the quake), your explanation above makes much sense, thank you.. just one thing, it’s not always lack of time or money making one decide to shoot at home.. and Bill, Alaska IS exotic, as any other place is that is different from our everyday surrounding I guess.
DAVID: Burnmeeting in Italy, it would be most helpful if you could tell us when it would be best for you, which day/part of the workshopweek is best suited? Trying to convince the family that they don’t need holidays in July.. they’re not really impressed by my argumentation so far..argh..
DAH – not as crazy as the folks who continue to expand their neighborhoods under Mt.Vesuvius or as crazy as those folks who live here in Darwin – which has by my reckoning been wiped off the map 3 times in the last 1OO years – 2 cat 5 cyclones and a sustained Japanese bombing campaign during WW2.
People do have short memories!
Marcin_-Thanks for your kind words Re my last post – i’ve thrown up a few more from Timor Leste here
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/
Images from the Easterfire:
http://www.reimar-ott.de/Easterfire2010
REIMAR
I love love LOVE your Easter Fire essay!!! You take me there, introduce me to your family, give me (a vegetarian) my first taste of bratwurst in decades, and satisfy my pyromaniac tendencies. The portrait of your mother as she looks at the fire is remarkable!
Maybe these aren’t pics from your trip to India but I already see changes in your work. You are SO present in the moment. And that’s all it takes IMO. Bravo!
hugs
Patricia
CATHY…
good answer
——————-
he he…indeed… ;)
Glenn….great blog..
loves it :)
I find myself very disappointed with the the golf club essay. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of reading the artist statement before viewing it. The girlfriend’s line that it looked like the work of a marxist got my hopes up. I’d love to see the golf culture taken deconstructed from a worker/class perspective. But I should have noted the “something I can’t quite put my finger on” and “maybe it’s none of that at all” lines. What we have here, I’m afraid, is a failure of authorship. Yes, the photos seem to hint at something deeper than just pictures of a golf club, but since the author of the piece has no idea what’s going on below, and apparently no interest in further investigation, I have to suspect that they are simply meaningless.
Reimar, I too enjoyed the Easter fire pics. I’d never even heard of an Easter fire. Of course I’ve always believed that any excuse for a big fire in the country is a good one. And Glenn. East Timor? Wow. What’s the story behind the photo of the nun and the guy with the machine gun?
REIMAR,
EASTERN FIRE…only in BURN…!!!
To our Mexican and Californian friends…please, stay strong…have the flashlight ready …
WE LOVE YOU…
Civilian’s house is still full with FRIENDS…we keep eating and drinking and watching closely
BURNIANS…many civilians are following your progress …THANK YOU !!!
I got to go… 3:30p.m here in Grecoland …and we are watching …YOUR ESSAYS
~~~~~~~~~~ WHAT NOT TO LOVE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I will be back…I am one of a …BURNING Host…opa
Typo:EASTER…
blame the high cholesterol…dammdarrraramm…dling-dlong…dammdaram
PANOS – Thanks Brother! and a happy Greek Orthodox Easter to you!
Easter?
http://johnvink.com/news/2010/04/chheing-meng-is-not-easter/
John I just looking at your Vietnam selection. Love it. I regret I didn’t found your book in Brussels.
Again: Easter is not really for this part of the world:
http://johnvink.com/news/2010/04/w-e-roadblock/
@ Marcin: Which book? The refugees book is sold out… Still have a few copies I try to keep for I don’t know which reason…
John,
Any book, travels are always good reason to spend some money for a book, unlike when you have daily expenses at home. Firstly I have looked for yours in every bookstore, didn’t find, but finally I bought “magnum magnum”, masterpiece.
MR.VINK,
THEY…lost their land and some of them their freedom…
SPEECHLESS…
MR.HARVEY,
Thank you…tell SOCRATES…we are sending LOVE…
BURNIANS,
thank you… more showing…open house …I will be back
JOHN VINK
Thank you for bringing a different perspective to our assumptions about spring celebrations. Your wife’s people honor those who have gone before even as those who are struggling for their right to their land are being arrested. Evidence of both the fairness and unfairness of life. I’m impressed that, even as you were in the midst of a family moment, you were there with your camera to document the unexpected.
Patricia
Had an interesting proposition – someone is interested in using my images to help pitch to investors for a film, as an example of mood, tone. There of course is the more personal question of allowing someone to use your vision to communicate theirs, but i do understand that…and there is the question of how this arrangement could be in my favor, either thru compensation for use or exposure or both…what say ye good people of burn? david?
“What would DAH do?”
(this could be a t-shirt…)
Marcin, you might want to try amazon.fr to find John Vink’s books (ask me how I know)..
Erica, very personal decision.. I’d ask myself if I’m ok with their POV, their motives..
eva, yes certainly, but if so, then what?
Erica, very hard to say without knowing more.. depends on what the outcome could be, what kind of investors are involved (big company, small company etc), future profit on all sides..
Michael Webster,
In actuality, I am continuing with the work and have many many months of shooting ahead of me. This work came together after the close of last season, but the work is not done. I’m sorry that you see no inkling of authorship in the work. Though I would agree with you, the pictures do no push a party line or scream at you, I don’t know if I’d want them to. I am more secure in the direction I’d like to take with the work, if you can even call it direction, but I don’t know that at the end of he day you will feel so different about it. Regardless, I accept your critique with open arms and will hold it close as I move forward.
I think with the discussion of authorship, and with your comment in particular (forgive me for using it as an example), it’s worth recognizing that though the photographer certainly has the power to make a statement, and like others have noted, the subject of the photograph also has the ability to speak, there is also the role that the viewer plays, who view work with their own biases, as well as the role of the camera/film itself, the media it is presented on, etc. In the end, what is communicated depends on all of these things. Telex Iran is a pretty wild example of a book with a strong personal voice, but with weight allocated to many different ‘voices’… And really, what each person gets out of that book will be completely different. I adore Peress’ work for this…
emcd
I don’t see a problem, as long as you don’t have a problem with the film being pitched, and as long as you are being compensated. Too many photographers are more than willing to allow use of their work for a credit line.
Do you feel commercial use of your images would somehow diminish them?
I guess what I am really asking is – if it’s just for an internal pitch, what would you ask for in compensation?
Erica…
i suspect that u know that “someone” well…and that u have a mutual respect…If so..then that “someone”
should compensate you for that…credits, money…whatever…
i would ask them to sponsor your exhibition at the film premiere …
i think that u should be excited , if u “relate” to the film idea..great promo for you too..
that’s a neat idea, panos – or I was thinking have them involved in the dark light moving image aspect…
but again, we are just talking about the pitch – not the film…
I did see a film once, can’t recall which, but the person in the film (fictional) had an amazing photo collection on the walls of their home, i was transfixed. there is a market in that too i guess
MICHAEL WEBSTER..
why isn’t your comment under the golf club essay?
yes…yes…it rings the bell but i cant recall the name of that film either…B&W photos on the walls..
was it david lynch? or maybe not…damn dead brain cells..
Hi all
I am writing this on an iPad! Took an iWeb class here this morning. The apple store has not opened yet but it’s raining so they are letting me try out the iPad while I wait. Good news I was able to view Reimars fire photos…nice Reimar…but can’t see the new burn essay due to flash issues.
I am sure all glitches will get worked out asap.
this is definitely the future. Very cool.
Cathy? no flash on ipad either…then fuck that larger iphone with NO phone
..another thing i dont get is why folks wait in lines to buy the ipad G…when the 3G arrives in 30 days?
human nature.. go figure…
RYAN GAUVIN,
I notice you studied geography at SFU, so a leftist take on golf courses seems quite understandable to me (I am a former geography teacher)… golf courses and the world of golf make up a particularly glaring example of class hegemony that extends over realms that are cultural, economic, social, environmental, and of course spatial… it is particularly blatant in its East Asian incarnation in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China, and now Vietnam… but the case of North America presents plenty of grist for this mill as well. While I think your photos are interesting, as an essay that explores and elucidates the topic, I don’t think you’re there yet… in fact, there’s a long, long way to go, but please keep at it because it’s an important topic… to explore it visually strikes me as complex and not easy… so please persevere. I look forward to seeing more from you in the future!
I have one very serious piece of advice for you, speaking as someone who works as much or more with language as images… please, please purge from your writing and speech the phrase “…at the end of the day…” , the most overused, abused, meaningless, and irritating figure of speech in all Canadian public discourse. It really makes my flesh crawl!
David, I thought that comment was a little too negative to saddle Ryan’s work with under the main essay. I realized I might feel different about it on further viewings. There is a lot that I like. That, and my thoughts were kind of a continuation of the authorship thread that’s been going on here.
Ryan, sorry, but when you twice mention that you don’t know what the essay is about, you open yourself to people questioning the strength of your authorship. It’s not that it doesn’t scream or bludgeon me with a party line; it’s that it doesn’t really say much of anything. Though that’s not entirely true. I thought the first one and #6 and maybe the last one were very strong. But if you don’t know what it says, why should I or anyone else? The idea that it’s up to the viewer to figure it out so the author doesn’t have to? Please.
And the issue of work in progress or “works better on your website” comes up a lot on Burn; I’ll just say I’m in the camp that considers an essay on its own terms, not in relationship to a body of work, much less the potential for what it might look like down the road.
Sorry again, I’m coming off much harsher than I really feel. There’s a lot to like about this work. Perhaps it’s just the artist statement that bit you in the ass, at least as far as I’m concerned. That happens a lot round here.
I made my comment here first instead of under Ryan’s essay becasue this is where that dreaded and deadly piece of Canadian verbal boilerplate appeared…(“…at the___of the___…”) but then I cross-posted (or ‘double-posted’?) under Ryan’s essay as well, just to show how strongly I feel about it! Apologies for needless redundancy.
Hey Michael,
all is cool, when I read discussions on the Internet I often invision two people arguing on the street… In reality neither of us are so heated. I do appreciate your feedback, and will be building from it.
SIDNEY…MICHAEL…
both of you should put these comments under the essay…i think Ryan will never see them here under Dialogue….both are good and constructive comments…..i think Ryan is most likely to value them…
SIDNEY…MICHAEL…
laughing..well, i guess Ryan did see them here!! Ryan and i posted simultaneous…
CATHY…
cool…i have yet to see one….what about holding it, on your lap, what?? no issues there?
The ‘dialogue’ pages at Burn are where the magic happens, ideas emerge, grow, mature, explode. I follow pretty close, though post seldomly.
PANOS…
yes, human nature…and human nature that is well figured into the biz plan…
RYAN…
now you ARE trouble..Sidney, and others, are going to get you for using “seldomly”…:))
Ryan – funny, i follow close the essays but comment there less – i am carrying yours with me through the day, letting if work it’s way. instant response was really enjoying the architectural / graphic elements, very intelligent. i have probably spent near as much time on a golf course as you (tho i don’t golf) and it was actually a challenge for me to see some of your images (the more familiar ones, the less abstracted) as if not thru my own eyes, as it is such a part of my psyche! I often thought of shooting there but felt it would have come out a bit Parr (oh bad, unintended pun) which I feel is somewhat best left to the master. (oh! another bad unintended pun) in ay case it is interesting how we tend to use dialogue for all the flux and post under essays when there is more concrete thought. i think this is done (or I do this) out of a sense of respect for the photographer, but when we allow the same fluidity there some great discussions emerge. and there is no more one post rule under essays? that is across the board gone, indefinitely?
apologies to Sidney and all for poor punctuation and improper use of language! (it’s way!, etc.)
Sidney – I LOVE your connection to language.
ALL,
Back from an exhausting and intense weekend of Native American sweat lodges and ayahuasca ceremonies that drove me just about to the edge. A good thing, though one always wonders when in the midst of it. I noticed that DAH mentioned fear in a comment over the weekend. This weekend was all about fear for me. As I progress on this healing path inner fears keep rising to the surface, fears that have been covered up with addiction, ignorance, and avoidance through the years. The best way to work with these fears I find is to embrace them, make them yours, give them some love, and then watch them dissipate. If one fights or tries to tamp down the fear it only gets worse. Fear loves a good fight!
And on luck: it’s not about somebody getting good luck at the cost of another’s. We attract or repel luck by our actions, like iron filings to a magnet. Simple as that. So take a look at your life, your being. What is it that is repelling “luck” for you? Change that and see what happens.
Here is some info about the work I’m doing. You can see my healer, Francois, with his teacher, Don Guillermo. Hopefully I’ll make it down to Peru at some point as soon as dad duties lighten up some.
http://www.espiritudeanaconda.org/1EEabout.html
And the medicine itself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca
Best,
CP
Caught again…
Hahaha
sidney, i’m typing from my phone and won’t back on a real computer til tomorrow, when I will engage properly with the points you raise – but I do hear you, and agree with most of what you said.
Photographer at work
http://www.magnumphotos.com/CoreXDoc/MAG/Media/TR3/5/4/a/a/NYC100994.jpg
Before I get a rep as some kind of ‘language cop’ around here… (if it’s not already too late)… I just wanna say that I realize:
1) that for many commentators on BURN, English may not be their native language, and yet they bravely commit their words and ideas to this world so dominated by ‘English language hegemony.’ I would NEVER criticize their use of language, but only applaud their efforts and thank them for the extra trouble and time I know it takes for them to participate here.
2) Internet forums by their nature encourage people to be fast, loose, and informal in communicating… which aids the spontaneity, the excitement, and the honesty of the communication. It’s the ideas and feelings that matter, not little grammar points. The last thing you need is some disapproving old maid editor breathing down your neck, inhibiting you.
3) Many photographers and other visual artists communicate better in other ways than in writing, which is why they are visual artists and not writers.
4) A lot of so-called ‘correct language’ is merely a convention, and is a moving target. Whatever I learned as a kid will not be what your children are learning now.
5) I make plenty of mistakes, too. Recently I seem to habitually mis-type “because” and “photography.”
6) Many people deliberately spice up their language with ‘mistakes’ that create disparate and jarring images that stimulate thinking and unusual associations… Bob Black is the master of this, he does it all the time. Bob Black also, in his passionate and brilliant haste to unload the torrent of his understanding, his thoughts, and his feelings, makes plenty of typos and mistakes that are not deliberate. He does both, the intentional and the sloppy, and it is sometimes (often) hard to tell what is deliberate and what isn’t. I think he likes it that way, otherwise why would someone so attuned to language do it? And if Bob Black can get away with it, why not everybody else?
7) There are distinct differences in spelling, usage, and even punctuation between modern standard American, British, and Canadian English… what is ‘correct’ in one is often not in the other two.
8) My little tirade about using “at the end of the day” is something that anyone who regularly listens to Canadian media will instantly understand. I’m afraid it will be lost on everyone else and make me seem like a language fuss-budget. Apologies to those others!
And if I do occasionally point out what I think is a language problem, it is only in a case where someone who is otherwise a ‘class act’ in every way has slipped, and it’s only meant to help make the already very good even better.
‘Nuff said.
Well, this week-end was meant to be a shooting week-end and ended up being a week-end in the car… The coming week is a week of vacations for my little kids but given the planned activities or “stage” of the week got canceled at the last minute without much warning, I drove 1000 km one way on Saturday to drop them by the grand-parents in Marseille and drove back another 1000 km in the opposite direction to Brussels…. just got home…. is this not a brilliant way of spending Easter week-end??? Anyway…. you understand why I am grumpy…. What is worse….is that I will do the same next week-end!!!! only positive in this sad story is that I have identified an interesting skatepark in Marseille so I will leave one day early and spend one afternoon there… who knows…maybe a few interesting pictures to make up for two lost week-ends….
ERICA/ ANDREW, just saw that you guys are partnering for a workshop (see link below)…. the very BURN photographers together, B&W and color experts, what’s not to love!!!!
http://www.photoworkshopnewyork.com/PhotoWorkshopNewYork/PhotographyWorkshopinNewYork-Home.html
Cheers,
Eric
Charles..
very very interesting…
i remember we had a very brief discussion in Seattle about those ceremonies…
i read the wiki thing..but i wish u could elaborate more…about your own
experience..although i understand its a danger putting in words…Does not sound
like an experience that can be easily described in a few sentences..
stupid question: (from an experimentalist myself)
“do u ever fear of ‘not coming back’..or even dying” in a process like this?
i know its not just DMT that can easily be found in amsterdam but can somebody use Aya
alone..with no supervision?
‘English language hegemony.’
————————-
Sidney thanks for clarifying..although u know u have all my respect and love…coz now we “met” through burn and i think i have a pretty good idea of what a great soul you are…
ERICA/ ANDREW, just saw that you guys are partnering for a workshop (see link below)…. the very BURN photographers together, B&W and color experts, what’s not to love!!!!
http://www.photoworkshopnewyork.com/PhotoWorkshopNewYork/PhotographyWorkshopinNewYork-Home.html
Cheers,
Eric
——————————————————————–
Erica, Andrew…i agree with Eric..whats not to love? good luck with this..
PANOS,
I don’t want to take up time here elaborating on my experiences – will compose you an email. Really just wanted to elaborate on fear and luck. This idea that somehow luck only happens to the chosen ones is hogwash IMO.
Anyway, do NOT take aya without the aid of an experienced shaman (curandero). Very few people have ever died from the medicine (compared to any western medicine) – usually it’s only trouble because the person hasn’t disclosed the fact that they are on certain meds (MAOI’s esp) or disclosed a heart condition. You may at times feel (really it’s thinking) as if you are dying but most certainly aren’t. I have seen people freak the fuck out but they always come back. They may never do aya again but most certainly feel the better for having done it. It’s usually people with control issues that have the hardest time. You have to give over complete control to the medicine or you are in trouble. Because a ceremony may involve 20-30 people there does have to be some etiquette/control involved to not disturb the ceremony though not everyone can deal. Certainly had that Friday night with some real disturbances (those people won’t be asked back).
Later,
CP
emcd
re compensation.
Depends on your connection to the folks doing the pitch, and the nature of the project I guess. If this is a commercial project, with big money at stake, then money is appropriate. How much? Depends on how important your images are to their presentation. My approach would be “what have you budgeted for this?” then “OK, here’s what I’ll do for you” based on how happy you are with the numbers suggested.
On the other hand, if these are friends or at least people you know well, and the project is not a big commercial venture, then another approach would be to do it as a favor. This is especially true if you think it might open some doors, or could be otherwise useful to you in the future.
I will sometimes do photographs as a favor, rather than charge less than I think it is normally worth. Having favors out there that can be called in is like putting money in the bank for a rainy day. I find that they are often repaid with interest.
I will sometimes do photographs as a favor, rather than charge less than I think it is normally worth. Having favors out there that can be called in is like putting money in the bank for a rainy day. I find that they are often repaid with interest.
—————————-
Gordon..indeed!
wisely put..
Charles..
thank u!
Charles, cc me on that email if it’s not too personal and you don’t mind. One of the 43 or so books I’m currently reading is “The World is as You Dream It” by John Perkins, about the use of Ayahuasca in Peru and its therapeutic possibilities. And I grew up on Don Juan, of course. Interesting stuff. And good observations on fear.
Panos, if that’s an area of interest, you might consider Salvia. It’s legal and inexpensive. Requires a minder, but doesn’t last long.
Salvia…had no idea
thanks Michael…
i guess mother nature has it all sort out for us…:)
DAH, you got mail…
Erica, DAH, all.
Erica said: “What would DAH do?” (this could be a t-shirt…)
I actually wrote this very line in my journal one evening in India. Not the t-shirt part :))
just… WHAT WOULD DAH DO?
Sometimes I would be out shooting..my scheduled dinner time would come and go…I was supposed to meet friends afterwards…that would come and go.
I repeated the mantra “What would DAH do?”… and just KEPT SHOOTING :)
WHAT WOULD DAH DO?
———————–
its very simple…as Civi said many times…
DAH= (Do As Harvey)… so if u dont know what to do? just do DAH and you’re safe..
:)
Also Civi teaches in his PhotoPhilosophy workshops in rural grecolandia that,
Harvey=Heart…so (Do As {Harvey=Heart} ) really mean: “Let your Heart guide you”..
or “Listen to your Inner voice” which literally mean Authorship… in a somehow loose way of course…
(no im not drinking:)
Yes I agree Panos. I think heart, sincerity, almost like a need to share an idea; a perspective; a way of seeing, and sharing it, is vital for something to blossom. At least it must be helpful.
GORDON…
i am the same…i would rather do a favor than charge less than what would be considered fair compensation..
CHARLES…PANOS
i have not tried aya…but, i did use an old shaman as a guide in Oaxaca several years ago up in the mountains, in the small but famous town of Huatla, where mushrooms are treated with the respect they deserve…Walt was there first of the gringos, and invented Micky Mouse…he was followed by the enlightened John Lennon, Mick Jagger etc etc…those mushrooms i suppose are something like aya…do not go without a guide…using shrooms etc cannot be anything new…i doubt those Maya pyramids got built out in the middle of nowhere Yucatan , or even conceived, without a little fertilization of the mind…mix one of those little brown shrooms in your scrambled eggs for breakfast and building a pyramid seems like the least you should do..
cheers, david
Camptown ladies sing this song, DO DAH, DO DAH
“a little fertilization of the mind…”
Most of us could use a little more of this :-)
GORDON…
a clever mind thou has…funny…however, going down my yellow brick road is fraught with peril..only about one tenth of one percent of what goes on in my life is recorded here on Burn/Twitter etc etc…the rest is, well, just not worth mentioning..OR, you just really wouldn’t want to know…
cheers, david
DAH, How are the kittens & mama cat?
Took Tessie, my basset hound, to the vet on Saturday. She had a seizure last Wednesday (non-violent, and no worse for wear) = and all blood work came back OK. Crossing fingers for now…
JUSTIN SMITH…
mama moved the kittens kicking and screaming to a new location…into a dark closet that happens to contain my vintage negatives…good luck with Tessie..i hope nothing too serious….our pets do become obsessions…i talked to my cat Simone all day long…but, she didn’t seem to be paying much attention…
cheers, david
DAVID,
Please don’t forget to give me account number. Which one of your e-mails is working?
cheers
http://www.collateralmurder.com newly obtained footage of an incident in iraq 2007.
graphic warning… mechanized killing,
indiscriminately.. two journalists.. two children.. whoever was on the wrong street corner and perhaps most disgusting of all – those who tried to help the wounded..
callous, casual and utterly on-a-whim, the dialogue and assumptions on the part of the ´shooter´ are astonishing..
>:(
how a camera can look like an rpg remotely..
David B,
speechless
also – ROGER BALLEN SMILING for those that thought he may not have been..
http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2010/04/02/roger-ballen/
MARCIN
it´s deeply disturbing and makes me feel utterly impotent to do anything.. what can be done?
the incident has only come to light through Reuters efforts.. because journos were killed..
and how many times does it happen without journos being killed?
the casual mistaking of cameras for weapons and the thinly veiled assumptions the gunner reaches to clear his conscience and enable him to kill the van / ambulance drivers is telling of his deeply ingrained ambivalence as to whether he is killing civilians or combatants..
he just does not seem to care either way.. an itchy trigger finger which seems encouraged..
i think it was PJG with vietnam inc. who first tackled the indiscriminate nature of mechanized killing
– the idea that it has passed into the ´normal practice´ of the military is sickening.. and still there will be more with the us military wanting 60% of it´s combat capacity to be mechanized by 2012..
the safest way to cover war is with the more technically advanced side, embedded, which leaves the greater story of what that side is actually doing untold.
it seems more and more common that the perpetrators of atrocities reveal themselves only through the footage and photos they themselves have taken, as with the ww2 genocide..
today it is abu ghraib.. and gunship footage.
PANOS:
Many thanks for posting the link to the Sally Mann film. Very interesting and enjoyable 80 minutes spent watching it. I also found it very moving. It clearly reinforces the idea that we have to make our work for ourselves first and foremost, and if the fickle editors and curators happen to like it along the way that’s a bonus.
MARCIN:
Good to see you talking about Harry Gruyaert. I too have admired his work for quite a while now. The new Moscow book looks interesting, but no mention of a publisher (that I can see). I wonder if it’s self published? I have never had the chance to see his Rivages book (no stores seem to have it here in the UK – I should order it!). I would imagine seeing prints is the best way to experience his work.
You might be interested in looking at Jeff Jacobson. His book Melting Point is very special and one I look at often. He has just appeared on the NYT Lens blog too, with audio commentary.
http://www.jeffjacobsonphotography.com
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/showcase-147/
DAH:
Will you be passing through London on your visit(s) to Europe this year?
I’m quiet, but busy working and exhibiting….
Cheers,
Justin
DAVID B…
everything you are showing us this morning is so disturbing..obviously the Iraq piece…just one recorded event of which there must be hundreds….and the Ballen clip…look at the rapid eye movement..hmmmmmm
JUSTIN P…
London will be either a stop on my way to Spain , or later to Italy…i will let you know which and when….we are long overdue for a meeting….nice to see you back here…
JUSTIN
..yes..best 80 minutes spent…Last weeks highlight for me..once again thanks to Eva that sent me this video..
SALLY MAN
http://video.yandex.ru/users/alexey-mischiha/view/86/#
(very interesting in the end when her show (exhibition) gets rejected by a NY gallery..thats a lesson to all of us..Even the “iconics” get rejected and even doubt their art as a result..please watch the video/movie…
DAH..
what are u doing up so early????
DAH:
If you’re here anytime before the end of June, let’s plan for you to visit my current show. It’s easy to get to from London by train (and a short drive – I’ll meet you). There’s also a nice French bistro in the town for lunch….
Just let me know when.
Cheers,
Justin
PANOS:
Yes, Sally’s show cancellation was the moment for me too. Hard not to feel her disappointment….
SALLY MAN’s movie starts with this words (her voice):
“One of the things , my career as an Artist , might say to young artists is ,the things that are CLOSE TO YOU are the things that you can photograph THE BEST, and unless you photograph what you love you’re not gonna make good art”
now (on a very very very lighter mode ) please watch my latest “movie”…
“fIRST AMUSE THE DOG THEN ENTERTAIN THE HUMANS”
(The story of another real artist below)..dont worry its only 1 minute & 53 seconds…laughing..
PANOS:
Yes, those words rang very true for me. And obviously they relate to the recent discussions here about photographers running off to the supposed exotic of India and other places to make their mark.
At the same time though I am not against the idea of photographing away from home, and it can be equally rewarding. For me it is a different experience, a lot more intense, and a little scary.
I’ve recently been studying the work of William Christenberry and his writings in the book Working from Memory give great insight into photographing the “local”.
Andrew Wyeth is also a good example of an artist who made work on his doorstep.
953,314 and counting…………..
JUSTIN P…PANOS…
i think what you love is most likely to be near home..and you both know i use Sally as an example all the time….but, conceptually you can take “home” with you anywhere…it just depends on what you are trying to dig into…if it is an aspect of the human spirit, then anywhere works…i try to get photographers to look into their own back yard first and once they “get it” then travel etc is educational at least…
speaking of that, i am off to airport…short trip nyc….always educational…
cheers, david
Late to the conversation here, been away for easter break catching up with the long suffering mother of an errant photographer son.
DAH, Reimar, your description of commercial/commissioned work and how it affects your personal vision is an industry wide issue. There are many talented photographers out there who for one reason or another travel down the road of commercial work, this then becomes the main source of income, so over time becomes the type of work they are hired for and neglect personal vision and work. A few years back I pitched for and undertook a six month trip round Spain and Portugal for several travel companies. The brief was very much for travel brochure work, so I was in travel company shooting mode, all my time was taken shooting resorts/hotels/holiday destinations, I was so much in the mindset of achieving this work for the clients, I had virtually no time/ headspace to do personal work. This sounds like a dream assignment and it ways it was, but it was also hugely frustrating going to all these destinations and having to “tow the party line” eg stick to the ridged brochure style. I must stress in those six months due to the constantly evolving itinerary and sheer workload my wife and I managed to get 2 free days for ourselves.
At the moment, I divide my time doing personal documentary projects (which hopefully will lead to editorial/commissied work) and commercial work and it feels like chalk and cheese and takes time for me to adjust from one form to the other.
The thing is whatever work you do requires camera skills, and the only way to achieve these is by practice,practice,practice.
Ian
admin
April 6, 2010 at 6:21 am
953,314 and counting…………..
——————————-
????????????????????????????????
953,314 and counting
———————-
deaths due to smoking? dead in the war? or photographers that submitted for EPF?
;)
i think what you love is most likely to be near home..
—————————————————-
but for Cathy’s defense : if what she loves is India..then India is her home…I feel sorry that she lives in exile though..;)
posts i´ll wager..
Sexy Sadie or another Tourist Trap in India?
please, aspiring photographer that heading to India..watch this…
“secret of levitation in india”
India Excites America…. ;)
David B, thanks for sharing the link.. if ever something can be changed it’s only by knowing what happens, not by hiding.
Panos, I very often like the sound of your videos, and see the pictures in them, I mean the stills, not only those that you show us, but also the potential ones, but am not that fond of the video itself, makes me feel a bit dizzy..
Funny thing regarding copyright to read here:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20100331/1100018810.shtml
953,314 and counting…………..
So does the millionth visitor win a Leica?
I’m still thinking about Ryan’s essay. Unfortunately, I think, for the people who get essays published here, sometimes their work gets evaluated at least partially in the context of ongoing conversations in dialogues. In that vein, two of the first things I thought about when viewing his work were the concepts of authorship and, even worse, self-indulgence. Thinking about it more, I suspect those two phenomena are often related. Without a strong sense of authorship, is work more likely to be self-indulgent?
My thought process goes something like this. Self indulgence is typically, though not exclusively, a bad thing. At the very least, I think it’s safe to say it’s a dangerous quality in a work of art, more so in a work of reporage. What is self-indulgence? As a working definition in this context, I’ll define it as “an unseemly focus on the self”. At one point, David asked someone, Cathy I think, to name names. The best example here on Burn I can think of is the guy who wanted to beat up Jim Powers (the one who was very public about it, anyway). In his artist statement he talked about how he looked around for a subject worthy of his artistic genius and decided to photograph his self. For me, that pretty much nailed the definition of “self indulgent.”
I bring this up in the context of Ryan’s work in relation to his admission that he really doesn’t know what it’s about. So I’m thinking, if it’s not about something else, it must be about him. That can be read into the artist statement as well. It’s not so much about the golf club or the golfers or the people that work there; it’s about his experience working there. I think the vaguely leftist feel we get from the juxtaposition of workers and golfers is an accurate representation of the photographers vague feelings. I suspect that’s the problem a few of the commenters have had with it.
But is that self-indulgent? Is Ryan’s essay an unseemly focus on the self? I’d say no. Definitely not. I think the difference between self-indulgence and art when focusing on the self has something to do with the degree in which someone’s personal experience represents and enlightens the viewer about more universal aspects of human experience. I don’t think Ryan’s essay quite succeeds at that, but it’s a close thing. I like the attempt. And maybe I’m just missing it. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Hey Ryan, off-topic, does working the grounds really pay $12,000 a summer? My daughter graduates high school this year and we’ve just received admission letters and financial aid grants. Looks like imminent financial ruin for me and a shitload of debt for her. Does that golf club have any openings next summer? Also, I’m feeling a bit bad about kicking around all these negative-ish things about your essay over here. Because honestly, I think the positives far outweigh any of those perceived negatives. Hopefully, I’ll be able to articulate that side of the equation and post it under the main essay.
Eva.. u felt dizzy with this one?
he he..wait to see then one comes next…
watch it on empty stomach..
laughing..;)
its a new patented technique called “rollercoasting” or “tripodless”..
big thing in the next Oscars..you’ll see…:))))))
Michael, interesting.. but isn’t authorship also something that comes through even if it’s not the main point of the photographer, meaning that if Ryan simply wanted to make pictures of his friends at work and not to make a point, but came out with that point nontheless (not screaming, but quiet), it’s not because of LACK of authorship, but on the opposite, because he has it?
Hope it makes sense, should think of it more, writing on the fly..
Dearest BURNIANS,
this is the list that I received almost a year ago from MR.SIDNEY ATKINS !!!
Sidney Atkins
BOOKLIST FOR “ROAD TRIPS”:
The Classics:
****************************
The Journey Upcountry (Anabasis, aka. The Persian Expedition) by Xenophon
The Odyssey by Homer
The Nature of Things by Lucretius
Tale of Genji by Murasaki Shikibu
Journey To The West (Monkey) translated by Arthur Waley
The Travels of Marco Polo
Midsummer Night’s Dream and The Tempest by Will Shakespeare
The Muqaddimah by Ibn Khaldun
Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon
Tom Jones by Henry Fielding
War and Peace and (not or!) Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Red and Black (Rouge et Noir) by Stendhal
The Heart of Midlothian by Sir Walter Scott
Moby Dick and Typee by Herman Melville
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Wind In The Willows by Kenneth Graham
Treasure Island by R.L. Stevenson
Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn by Sam Clemens (Mark Twain)
Two Years Before The Mast by Richard Henry Dana
Kim by Rudyard Kipling
The Star Rover and Call of the Wild by Jack London
Lord Jim, Youth, and Victory by Joseph Conrad
Lost Illusions and A Harlot High and Low by Honore de Balzac
The Crock of Gold by James Stephens
The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel by Nikos Kazantzakis
Strange News From Another Star by Hermann Hesse
———————————
Non-Fiction:
****************************
Montcalm and Wolfe and the Conspiracy of Pontiac by Francis Parkman
Akenfield by Ronald Blythe
Kon Tiki by Thor Heyerdahl
Korea and Her Neighbours by Isabella Bird Bishop
The Land of Little Rain by Mary Austin
Testimony of the Spade by Geoffrey Bibbey
Memories of Silk and Straw by Dr. Junichi Saga
The Grass Roof by Younghill Kang
Slow Boats to China and Slow Boats Home by Gavin Young
Seven Pillars of Wisdom by T. E. Lawrence
Across the Wide Missouri by Bernard De Voto
Heart of the Hunter and Yet Being Someone Other by Laurens van der Post
Two Kinds of Time by Graham Peck
The White Nile and The Blue Nile by Alan Moorehead
White Waters and Black by Gordon MacCreagh
The Great Columbia Plain by Donald Meinig
Third Class Ticket by Heather Wood
A Moveable Feast by Ernest Hemingway
Memoirs of William L. Shirer
Shadows on the Silk Road by Colin Thubron
News From Tartary by Peter Fleming
And the Rain My Drink… by Han Suyin
Heaven’s Command, Pax Britannica, and Farewell The Trumpets by James (Jan) Morris
Bonaparte in Egypt by Christopher Herold
China Road by Rob Gifford
The Songlines by Bruce Chatwin
In Search Of History by Theodore White
A New Age Now Begins by Page Smith
Coming Into the Country by John MacPhee
West With the Night by Beryl Markham
Happy Isles of Oceania by Paul Theroux
Nihon no Kawa o Tabi Suru (Travelling Japan’s Rivers) by Noda Tomosuke
——————————
Fiction:
*****************************
Man’s Fate (La Condition Humaine) by Andre Malraux
Hawaii by James Michener
The Quiet American by Graham Greene
Alexandria Quartet by Laurence Durrell
The General In His Labyrinth by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
V by Thomas Pynchon
Gaijin by James Clavell
That Night In Lisbon and All Quiet On The Western Front by Eric Maria Remarque
A Farewell To Arms by Ernest Hemingway
The Guide and The Vendor Of Sweets by R. K. Narayan
The Horseman On The Roof by Jean Giono
Letters From Thailand by Botan
O Zone and Picture Palace by Paul Theroux
Malayan Trilogy, Nothing Like The Sun, and Napoleon Symphony by Anthony Burgess
The Children of Sanchez by Oscar Lewis
The Asiatics by Frederic Prokosch
Wind, Sand, and Stars and Night Flight by Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Pictures of Fidelmann by Bernard Malamud
Spangle by Gary Jennings
The Big Sky by A. B. Guthrie
Raintree County by Ross Lockridge
A Leaf In The Storm by Lin Yutang
Rickshaw Boy by Lao She
The Sword in the Stone by T. H. White
The Makioka Sisters (Sasameyuki) by Junichiro Tanizaki
The Enchanters by Romain Gary
The Last Time I Saw Paris and Paris in the Springtime by Elliot Paul
Sometimes A Great Notion and Last Go Round by Ken Kesey
At Play In The Fields Of The Lord by Peter Mathiessen
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
P.S Thank you
The name of the new Film Movie company is “Keep your Day Job Productions”
Revolution …i’m telling u..
PANOS,
Thank you for… SALLY MAN…oime…
Harvey=Heart…so (Do As {Harvey=Heart} ) really mean: “Let your Heart guide you”…
yeap…you really pay attention, don’t you !!!???
Damn its raining civilians..umbrellaaaa!
AKAKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYy
953,314 and counting…………… let’s do it …I know , we can do it :)))
Love that list CIVI and Sidney – to my shame I have tried to fudge my way through some of it but theres a mark against my name – MUST WORK HARDER.( we just don’t talk about songlines in the NT)
To ALL MY BURNIANS…
it ain’t easy…BUT…keep it UP…BE YOU… find your own voice…the Universe will follow…
Το μυστικο της ευτυχιας ειναι η ελευθερια.Το μυστικο της ελευθεριας ειναι το κουραγιο.
“The secret of happiness is freedom. The secret of freedom is courage.”
Thucydides (Ancient Greek historians and author, 460-404bc)
Panos, dizzy, yup.. but then, I get carsick looking at the backseat of a car.. ;)
GLENN,
The list is from MR.SIDNEY…I will always be grateful for that…
P.S and I love your work GLENN…I see your vision…VIVA !!!
“Filotimo”
Obama, 2010 ac
Yes Eva, that makes sense and I agree with you. I doubt I’d engage so much with the work if that were not the case. So I guess what I’m trying to say is more that the quality of the authorship could be better rather than that it does not exist. I think the way to improve the quality of the authorship is to better come to grips with those vague feelings; if not to understand them, then at least to understand more about where they come from, what the underlying motivations are that bring them to the surface. Perhaps that happens more in editing than in shooting? There are, no doubt, many paths.
And if a work is just “how I spent my summer vacation” or “this is what I see in my daily life”? Can those subjects not have artistic, or at least documentary value? Or are they simply self-indulgent? Maybe it depends on the execution?
it was the philosopher Thales who said,
“Filotimo is like breathing. A Greek is not a Greek without it. He might as well not be alive.”
Filotimo involves personal pride, dignity, courage, duty, sacrifice – even one’s life – and above all demands respect and deep personal freedom. And Filotimo is not something that above all demands respect and deep personal freedom. And Filotimo is not something that is taught ; it is inbred.
Michael:
the term ‘self-indulgent’ is not only an unfair one, as applied to the practice of story-telling, but suggests derision. The problem that i have with that term, as applied to Ryan’s essay or any other, is that judgment comes from the viewer, rather than some line of objective standard by which a story can be measure (for example, is it b/w or color). The truth is that when one strives to define or rather criticize a body of work (and by criticize I mean in the analytic sense, not the pejorative sense), is that the tools by which criticism is applied is as disparate as the specific story tellers themselves. I also find the term, authorship, as it is often applied to photography, a bit of a cannard as well. Often people think or sense that áuthorship is about the look, the style, the point-of-view of a particular story when in truth, for me, it’s a much simpler understanding.
Authorship rests upon the notion that a story-teller wishes speak about something using her tools and her perspective in the best, most authentic way they know how. In other words, authorship comes, a priori, from the notion that a particular body of work is a reflection of someone’s insights and perspective. Rather than aping another’s ideas/story, the author wishes to bare upon a moment, a story, a place, a time their particular perspective. This often gets misconstrued in photography because of the ineluctible fact that pictures are honed by a mechanical box and photographs, more or less, tend to all look the same, within a range of difference. One can make the same argument with writing or music or joke-telling etc, because within the constrains of the syntax and morphology (the grammar) of language, one is limited to a degree to press their úniqueness. Expression, in truth, comes not from it’s unique qualities (although this tends to jazz up the perspective) but from the richness of the story: that may be about style or perspective or freshness or newsworthiness, etc. Authorship is about the mining of both an idea and a means to express that, without the reliance of copying another.
ryan’s story might not look ‘jazzy’but it sure has some beautiful, straight pictures. More than that, it’s authority for me is rich and authentic. Maybe i have insight because i too once worked on a golf course, but in that story lay alot of richness: the beautiful and meditative images of work, the tedium, the silence etc. Can this story be honed to include other notions (the disparity between the workers and country club members, the divide between the playing of the game and the making of the game, of course, and I’m sure Ryan’ll be all over that in the coming months. but, for me authorship, in terms of photography, has nothing to do with whether or not a series of photographs look unique, but rather is the story one that speaks to me about particular moments and then reflects or allows me to think of other things. The idea of the story itself is rich enought that i was like: good, an essay on golf that isn’t the Sports Illustrated variety. It’s intereting to me about the comparison to his Tibet work, çause i sense that many enjoyed that more because of the intrinsitic exoticism of tibet and the quotidian nature of the golf stuff. But for me, that’s it: how to arrest something that highlights the variety and oddity and measure of life: be it in a far-away, photograhically rich place (tibet) or a quiet, áverage’place like a golf course….
as for the idea of self-indulgent. again, for me it’s a raw nerve you are cuddling ;)))….If you are referring to the Ballen debate with Jim (or another), you’ve lost me on that one. I do not think that any thoughtful and fully engaged photographer ever things: ok, the world is boring, let me photography myself. In fact, everyphotographer graphs themselves and their life and their perspectives to the external world and we see and range the world from that. In other words, we are all self-indulgent…i mean, we’re all epicurean! ;)…the act of going out to the world and snapping pictures of others in order to make a universal statement often seems like the worse kind of huberis and arrogance to me…and I plead guilty, because images, and words, are one of the great pleasures for me and one of the ways like walking or reading or meditating or listening, that I try to make sense of both the world and my place in it: my connection to others and places and moments and things. But we’re still trapped in that labrynth of self: and are not words and stories and images Ariadne’s thread by which we navigate our way out….
I repeat: i am always open to another’s story, whether that journalism or a person’s solitary take on their life or their ideas or their relationships or their history. The remarkable thing about story telling is often it is the peculiar and the personal that makes the most sense, allows us to connect to the universal. In other words, when a person chooses to write or create something that comes from a place of personal perspective, god damned, that often speaks to me: it’s like seeing Friday’s footsteps on the sand. the label of self-indulgence, as a criticism, most likely has to do with the maturing of a person, the way children are ego-centric and need that perspective as a way to learn the ways and harms of the world and slowly things get distilled, through encounter and rejection, joy and pain, loss and gain. A photographer who wishes to focus on something specific, runs the risk of that accusation from many, and yet they also, imho, run the greater gain of something that speaks with authenticity.
Sally’s career-long exploration of her family and her children and most recently the eroding of her husband’s legs and muscles MS. but in truth, in many ways, Sally’s work is also a personal story, a story about her father, a doctor, and the necessity and place of living and dying. A universal story riffed from the specificies of her particular family, her particular place and her particularly beautiful, intelligent, formidable mind.
We must be careful about calling other self-indulgent, for in truth, that nearly always rings false to me. It’s more about the critic, often, than the work itself. Shit, some war photography seems that way to me too, but for another?…..that’s the cunnundrum: how does one both receive and digest things….with open and willing thoughts….
authorship is about personal perspective. the writing of light against the darkness that surrounds. in other words, as Heamey wrote, to set the darkness ringing, a personal helycon.
that ryan’s work didnt speak to you is cool…just as ballen’s work doesnt work for many….just as my silly essays seem masterbatory….but the fact is that it, in truth, isnt even so much about the realization of things that matter to me, but about the intent….intent is the core of authorship…
hope that makes sense..
b
SIDNEY :))))0..yes, sometimes typos (many) here…cause im writing on the fly and not writing/editing when i post here (or other blogs), but yes too, most of the brambling of words, the crashing and the corrosion of them are with intent….it’s the writer in me, as you know ;)))….and the risk of being completely misread (often happens here) for the hope that that kind of collision of language and ideas will ring out something less hollow and more keen…..wait to you read what I wrote for my upcoming essay…all kinds of verbal dances in that one too….patience :)))
hugs
running
bob
PANOS…are you the civilian???:)))
and since the bar has been raised …my apologies …
a correction:
BURNIANS
What’S not to love !!!
I’m gonna jump in to this great discussion, but I got to run off to work… Will meditate on the topic while shoveling sand all day :)
BOBB…ayaya…BOBBY…ayayay…1750 words …
this place is BURNING !!!
Bob: “hope that makes sense..”
yes, it does..
Bob, I’m happy to provide you with a jumping off point for your writing, but little if any of that relates to anything I wrote about Ryan’s essay or the question of self-indulgence. In short, I defined the term for use in my discussion (the key word is “unseemly”), discussed Ryan’s work in the context of that definition and came to the conclusion that it wasn’t self-indulgent.
As for the tools of criticism, that’s pretty much my approach. Define the terms and then discuss the work in the context of those definitions. Sure, it’s all subjective, and we can always argue about definitions, but without that basic structure we will always end up talking by each other. And of course no matter whose work we’re discussing, we’re always talking about ourselves to some degree. I think the best critics run with that fact rather than try to hide from it. See William Gass.
As for authorship? Well, I’m sure there are many ways of defining it, all of them slippery. My advice for Ryan on the subject, which is basically to get a deeper understanding of his motivations for wanting to present those photographs, is well within the bounds of constructive criticism. Seems to me, anyway. Lordy knows I’ve heard it myself.
breaking news:
ZORIAH STRIKES AGAIN….
http://photophilanthropy.org/slideshow/gallery_zm-pro.html
PANOS,
On the same Photophilanthropy site, check out great work by “OUR” Sean Gallagher:
http://photophilanthropy.org/slideshow/gallery_seangallagher.html
And if you run down the list of other photographer-contributors, you will see some other familiar names.
Michael :)))….sorry for the long reply, it was with energy/joy, not disdain :))…i tend to write here in bursts of energy…and i was riffing off your discussion (a good one)…by the way, a big fan of William Gass…fiction and essays and poems :))…by the way, i wasnt condemning your critique of Ryan’s essay (it was a fair and reasoned critique), rather was riffing off some of your ideas :))
“And of course no matter whose work we’re discussing, we’re always talking about ourselves to some degree. I think the best critics run with that fact rather than try to hide from it. ”
couldnt agree more which is why i turned the entire ‘self-indulgent’ discussion (originally as it appeared and now above) back to the critic/writer…it’s their sensibilities, most of the time, they’re referring to rather than the work at hand…you reaction to ryan’s work was totally legit and i am certain was very helpful to him…many probably felt the same but felt less compelled or less courageous to say so publically…and i value real opinions, even in desent….
hope that makes sense…ok, gotta fly…
cheers
bob
Sidney yes..
Laura Montanari here:
http://photophilanthropy.org/slideshow/gallery_lauramontanari.html
Lisa Hogben here:
http://photophilanthropy.org/slideshow/gallery_lisa_hogben.html
MY FAVORITE ESSAY ,comes of course from an “amateur”..mr DMITRY MARKOV..
SIMPLY AMAZING..:))))
http://photophilanthropy.org/slideshow/gallery_dmitrymarkov.html
BRAVO PHOTOPHILANTHROPY…BRAVO TO THE FOUNDER, EDITOR…BRAVO TO ALL …
and we are so proud of LAURA,ROSE,SEAN,LISA,LISA…and I want to believe that and the other names…
are regular BURN LOVERS…therefore …congratulations to ALLLL
Enough for today…I am getting tedious…I definitely LOVE you…
nuff…hihiiiiiiiiiii
OOO
civi
the Iraq footage is so disturbing – how will we ever be simple again?
the balen video a bit unnerving too – I have defended his work but i don’t know….
please – peace and joy, love and light
Om lokah samastah sukhino bhavantu.
Erica..i dont think that Roger said anything that weird…
He has a Dali/Lynch quality (eccentricity) but he is Kool..imho
Now regarding the helicopter footage…
(playing the advocate a bit)..we need to have no illusions…
This is the “soldier”/”army person” mentality in any and every army in this planet..
They are trained to kill…not to help…You cant blame a dog in the dog fight…
people think that pit bulls for example…but i think that the main responsibility
belongs to that dog trainer…
The most disturbing fact i think is when we confirm (reconfirm) over and over our dark side..
That dark nature that is inside and is part of ourselves…I’m afraid that most of us we
could have pulled that trigger if we were 18, poor, uneducated, stressed out and
TRAINED to kill…I know kids that enlisted to the marines right after the 9/11…
They saw civilians jumping out the twin towers to their own death..desperation..
They saw all that..then fear…revenge…got in the army…gave them a gun…
saw fellow soldiers die next to them…lost their mind…killed people , got a
PURPLE HEART…killed some more..got another purple heart…There is always two sides..
both sides upset..You attacked me first america said…no you did iraq replies…
A mess…
Again for me it doesnt really matter who started it..After all who was first? the egg or the chicken?
Still what bothered and still bothers me more is that under specific ,weird , out of control circumstances
we could all pull that (or any trigger) or behead someone or walk into a suicide mission….
Its our darkest side that we all possess that scares me…that sleeps and await in that little corner of our soul able to reveal itself…in that ultimate moment that some call it “out of control” or “passion”
or “pride for my country” or “revenge killing the infidels”..or..you name it…
There is always a good excuse for the dark side (our dark side) to prevail…
welcome to this planet earth..&…beware of human behavior..
There is a potential killer in all of us…
All..if you watched that SALLY MANN movie i posted earlier you will not believe that Sally (that sweet amazing woman/artist) shot with a gun and broke the legs of a thief/intruder in her ranch in virginia…
After she broke his legs with the shotgun the victim still not dead ..pulled out his little revolver and committed suicide…
Do u think that Sally Mann would ever think that she would shoot anyone? Defense , right?
Does this incident resembles a soldiers story??? no, not at all..of course not…
but even if u ask any soldier u will hear that they did it for defense…Ahh the helicopter guys thought that the camera was a gun…etc…there is always an excuse …but behind it its that dark side that wants to come out…
If i would ever encounter an alien (from outer space ) i would say..beware of the humans…
ERICA,
Meant to answer your question yesterday. I’ve had photos used in a few movies as background. Usually not a lot of money but a little something. What these people want to do with your photos are known in the ad industry parlance as “scrap” – images culled from various sources and presented to the client and creatives as a template for what they want to produce. They really didn’t have to ask you at all as long as it’s kept in-house so nice that they did. Not sure what you can charge. As you know pricing can be the photographers biggest challenge. Probably on the low end.
I had the producers of the Gossip Girls approach me once to use some of my grunge photos. One of the characters mothers was supposed to be a famous music photographer. I would have been okay with it if they had of picked some of my more obscure unpublished work but they wanted to use my most well known imagery so I had to give it a pass (a really big pass!).
PANOS, MICHAEL,
Off to a coffee shop soon and will write you then.
CP
ohh..look here what happened to a poor little Alien that trusted humans too much..
(laughing)
PANOS,
It all comes back to fear. Why do you think all those people are against Obama and health care reform, etc etc when their arguments are so indefensible? Inner insensible fear that they can’t even begin to look at. Cover it up with cheeseburgers, FOX news, and SUV’s. So it comes out when faced with the challenge of change, no matter if that change would actually be good for them. Crazy stuff.
CP
panos – i’m not going to argue about peace…
Charles – what you wrote yesterday really rooted – thank you for sharing; I know we started a convo about the aya before, and it hasn’t left me either. Scrap – yes, that’s it, and I had the sense that in an in house piece payment is a courtesy..so we will see. thank you.
Charles…
i agree %100…FEAR can make people (humans) do things even against their own nature…
Hijackers in 9/11 killed 3000 (that day only) but whats amazing is that they also KILLED themselves…!!!???
does not make sense…most republicans are not rich….but they have this idea of individualism which makes them vote against their own self interest..like the iowa farmers….they lose as republicans, but yet they vote republican
that old fear of communism..is still alive..
panos – i’m not going to argue about peace…
———————–
Erica why should you? im not talking about peace….all im talking is that FEAR that Charles points out that fuel our dark side..A dark side that want it or not , All of us have..even me or you..
Panos,
I fully agree about what you are saying regards to the dark side and fear.
That scares me everyday – and we always have to take the decision again and again – to the light side.
Re: Fear: The first and the last step to surrender is one and the same.
Behave of human behavoir indeed..
http://collateralmurder.org/
full version, at 18:50..
And to be fair, it’s not always fear. Sometimes it’s just plain murder.
“Why do you think all those people are against Obama and health care reform, etc etc when their arguments are so indefensible?”
Oh dear! Clearly a bad time for me to be poking my head in here.
Speaking of Peruvian curanderos, please have a look at Andrea Frazzetta’s work on the subject:
http://www.andreafrazzetta.com/
(another great essay to check on his site is “African Movies Festival”)
More information here:
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/05/wikileaks-more-backg.html
http://www.collateralmurder.org/en/resources.html
PANOS:
I think you have the story about the intruder on Sally Mann’s ranch a little bit wrong.
I might have misunderstood either the film or your comment, so forgive me if so, but I don’t think Sally shot the man herself, the police did.
She talks about it a bit in this interview with Charlie Rose:
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/1722
– and we always have to take the decision again and again – to the light side.
——————————————-
Thomas yes…we ALL have to think like that…unfortunately there are not to many Dalai Lama’s around…
and i agree with Erica of course…we have to choose peace…
we cant afford to let the dark side(Fear) take over…
PANOS and MICHAEL,
Just wrote you guys a long essay and then somehow my laptop gobbled it. Maybe it was meant to be. Oh well. Will send you some pertinent links instead as I have a hard time writing twice.
ABELE,
Amazing photos – thanks for that. The curanderos I work with don’t traffic in magic (black or white), though it is a big part of the tradition and they need to know how to resist it, esp when in Peru. There are good and bad curanderos, just like good and bad in every aspect of life. Aya ceremonies are incredibly difficult to photograph as they take place in complete darkness, and even the beginning preparation part is usually by candlelight. I do hope to make it down to the jungle to photograph though – harvesting and cooking the vine, portraits, etc.
Best,
CP
JUSTIN..
you are absolutely right…my bad..i got it wrong!
thanks for correcting me..:)
Charles ;)
maybe wasnt meant to be ..not tonite at least!
big hug
Akaky..:)
come out..nobody is gonna hurt you…i promise..
peace
PANOS,
This says it all. Metsa (a given name) and Miguel who led the ceremonies last weekend are quoted. I sat directly across from Miguel – he helped me at one point – powerful shit.
http://layogamagazine.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=428&Itemid=1
Another article that uses one of my photos of Metsa:
http://layogamagazine.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211
CP
obviously charles, (and ´yoda´) are right :o)
¨Fear is the path to the Dark Side.
Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.. ¨
¨star-wars¨ quotes as ´mind-bombs´ apart though – what is disgusting is that it was not the
¨18, poor, uneducated, stressed out and TRAINED to kill…¨
fighting dogs which initiated the cover-up.. lost the mini-gun camera footage.. lost the audio..
and whitewashed the event to the point that not a single person has been pulled up on charges, despite the murder of the van driver, (who was taking his kids to class), and the breaking of their own rules-of-engagement.
even if the event could be understood as an impassioned and momentary lapse of reality on behalf of the troops, (which i doubt given the audio), there is no question of the cover-up being a callous and all-too pre-meditated affair.. discussed in austere towers.
it all smacks of, ¨normal day at the office¨ for the military, and were it not for the journo´s killed i doubt it would even register.. footage would be lost in the realms of obscurity.. as have other clips of farmers being killed and markets being bombed which turn up on youtube from time to time.
it´s interesting that the high-pressured 24 hour news networks were not the first choice for the US whistle-blowers expose..
wiki-leak has a reputation, clearly, for a more investigative approach to reporting than some of it´s news *slash* entertainment big brothers..
as it happens, they have just showed the most disturbing parts of the footage as part of a report on the early evening news here in norway..
anyone else seen the story broadcast on television?
PANOS,
One last one. The shaman speaking in this, Dave has worked on me. I’ve sat in the space he’s in. Can’t wait to see this film. Its my peeps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvQLx3DZdq4
CP
D
M
T
David B… Well put.
I see a possible parallel to the earlier discussion about shooting in exotic places vs shooting local.
Spiritual tourism. On the rise (again). Ashrams are a bit passe, Amazonias where its at now.
Dont get me wrong, I cherish the legacy of my teenage spiritual questing. Deadly nightshade…the good old semilanceata….The laboratory variations…peyote etc..but I believe that mind expansion, and the plants that facilitate it, are to be found just about anywhere you live..and will be native to your ‘tribe’ if you like. Hence the staples for us middle english have always been psilosybe family mushrooms, the fly agaric and belladonna.(dont ever go there with this one, I could tell you really scary stories) For possibly thousands of years. Of course in this day and age where we in the west are so spiritually lost(maybe due to imposition of monotheistic religions, buts thats for another day) that ANYTHING that resembles a path to understanding is soon very heavily trodden by the birkenstock shamans.
David B,
its just been on the News at 10 on the good old BBC.
Ian
Yeah I just saw it too. Fair play to the beeb for running it, lets hope they run WITH it too.
John,
Point well taken. Spiritual materialism is a problem. In fact I’ve seen hardcore “yogis” and meditators get hit the hardest with aya because they confuse being spiritual with being in control. In fact it’s about surrendering control.
Best thing to keep in mind is that at the source it is considered a medicine, first and foremost, and the shamans doctors. In fact the World Health Org is recognizing its potential for healing and many serious professionals taking a look at these plants as our pharmo-addicted society spins out of control:
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/health/Potent-Jungle-Vine-Brew-Has-Potential-to-Treat-Addiction-88923322.html
So really not that much different than say going to Mexico for a cheap knee replacement. It’s just that it’s dealing with healing on a deeper more subtle level, much like naturopathy, acupuncture, etc.
But yes, not everyone has easy access or the $ to go for access so we need to look where we can for our healing. Same as in our photographic subjects. Just be careful about equating it with the other substances above. It is very different in it’s chemical comp and administration (when done traditionally) which lends itself to actually healing illness vs just mind expansion. I won’t go into it more but it’s easily found out about – google.
Okay, back to photography. In fact sun just came out so time to get out of the cave.
Best,
CP
¨Of course in this day and age where we in the west are so spiritually lost (maybe due to imposition of monotheistic religions, buts thats for another day) that ANYTHING that resembles a path to understanding is soon very heavily trodden by the birkenstock shamans.¨
that´s so funny john.. like it.
if someone said hot-boxing under your duvet with bean-induced flatulence swung open a ¨door´, there´d be a smug guru in a yurt in north surrey ´following through´ to reach an even ´higher state´.. sat cross-legged, squashing his licking toad.
near death experience is the only way..
dig out the old VHS of ¨flatliners¨ and follow the instructions therein.
sometimes i think of my past drug excess and addiction as something which some people are driven to do in order to reach the very place that others naturally inherit in their genes..
hallucination can bring about some introversion which, guided with the right balance, can open up possibilities..
although while comparisons between focused meditation in buddhism and staring into a mirror on LSD abound, it is worth thinking on why zen monks are not wandering about with glass glazed eyes and chewing their lips off.
perhaps hallucinogens can give you ¨shadow memories¨.. impressions of a possible future.
people who have suffered trauma and gained a flash by flash, chronological explanation of their past can have the same phenomenon – being able to project into a future possibility..
9 times out of 10 though, ego lodges itself in the way whilst tripping and people end up pondering their own belly buttons..
¨So really not that much different than say going to Mexico for a cheap knee replacement. It’s just that it’s dealing with healing on a deeper more subtle level, much like naturopathy, acupuncture, etc.¨
CP
i wish i could find the report i read which mentions subtle doses of MDMA which were used in the treatment of PTSD after the london tube bombing..
medical use – exploration for sure.. although not all minds have a constitution which lends itself to relinquishing control.. sociopaths.. psychopaths.. some dark triggers in an intense trip.
David B, been on the news down here (Italy) all day, on every news station, showing the killing each time..
700?
YESSSSSS!!!!WOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!
We now return to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress…
the problem with all religions is that none of the founders of those religions owned their own pogo stick. Pogo stick owners tend to be a spiritual bunch, no doubt the result of their brains bouncing off the insides of their skulls for a prolonged period of time. Most religions, however, tend to begin in the minds of people who have nothing better to do than annoy the Almighty all day long with their spiritual problems. Jesus, Buddha, Zarathustra, Confucius, Lao-tse, Moses, the Prophet Obama(peas be upon him)did not own their own pogo stick, although I hear from impeccable sources that Lao-tse did own a gerbil named Fred. While gerbils are a nice thing to have, dont get me wrong here, bouncing up and down on a gerbil tends to be a fairly short-lived exercise, especially for the gerbil, and is not at all conducive to promoting a spiritual epiphany. For something like that you definitely need to bounce up and down on a pogo stick, or a capybara, whichever is more available.
DAVID B.
No, it’s not for everyone. That point was proved Friday night – several people will never be asked back. The main thing to know about aya is it is considered in it’s traditional setting to be a diagnostic tool – in fact in many Amazon tribes it’s only the shaman that takes it. We in the west need to do our own self-diagnosing though for expediency sake, plus it’s a purgative and most of us have plenty to purge!
The true work comes with doing a dieta, which is being prescribed another “master” plant by the curandero and doing a diet of that plant only which involves no salt, no sugar, drugs, alcohol, sex, citrus fruits, red meat, and so on. You open and close the diet in an aya ceremony with no aya in between. I will be doing a three month long one starting in July – no idea with which plant yet. No salt/sugar is the hardest part, esp with family, ie no or very little eating out.
Yes, the ego is usually the main hang up. With aya if you don’t let go of it you will have a very rough time (and sometimes even if you do). It can be very good for burning through the ego though as you usually have no choice in matters. Anyway, take what you know about LSD, mushrooms, etc and multiply that experience times 20 and you begin to reach the experience of aya. It is truly a rough ride (and thankfully only 4-6 hours in duration) and one of the most rewarding things I’ve done in my life aside from having Felix.
CP
AKAKY:
I now know what a capybara is! :)
Yes, closing time….
My first “official” blog post which includes a link to burn and a quote from DAH.
There’s no way I can blog about my journey as a photographer without including DAH and burn.
http://cathyscholl.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/speaking-with-a-camera-the-challenge-of-photographing-amar-bharti-baba/
Maybe I’ll do a post quoting Panos one of these days :))
Hi Micheal and Bob,
Sorry I’m a bit behind in the discussion, but I’ll try to catch up.
First off, Michael, in regards to your daughter, yes, I made 12,000 last summer. This summer I will likely make double, as my “summer job” is actually more than half a year since I am not returning to school. Every course pays differently though, and I feel quite fortunate to be where I am. Where I work, we hire a bunch of new people every summer since we are only open half the year and the annual turnover is pretty high, but again, every course is different. The other thing is, we’re a bunch of crude boys. Worth considering.
Don’t feel bad about negative comments! Those are the ones worth discussing, and really they are not so negative as they are constructive. I really like this: “the degree in which someone’s personal experience represents and enlightens the viewer about more universal aspects of human experience”. This is a beautiful way of phrasing it. I certainly think that there are areas to (photographically) concentrate my focus to better speak to power structures (which is the admittedly vague idea where the work emerged from), but I also believe that each viewer is open to different readings, and this is also beautiful. I get you though. A lot of the ideas I have now after sitting on the work for a winter are much stronger than they were when I started shooting.
Bob,
I love that you mentioned “Sports Illustrated variety” of golf photography, and Tibet in the same paragraph (not that there is anything wrong with SI). Both stem from a the same root in one regard – a reaction to the typical, idyllic and altogether flat coffee-table representation of both Tibet, and golf courses. I was very conscious of this, and my Master’s thesis was dealt with this heavily. Zizek hits the nail on the head in regards to Tibet. If you are at all interested, sift through “On Belief”.
Now, back to regular programming.
-err, the viewer isn’t open to different readings… the viewer is open to read it differently.
bad language use!
Print is trying to hit back. The big hitters at last are trying to persuade advertisers of the value of print and magazines….will it work?
From over here in the UK the video looks pretty cheesy and desperate, but I hope it helps.
http://stocklandmartelblog.com
cheers
ian
Panos, you’re on the button… I think you mentioned somewhere about the conspiracy theory about Aids and pharmas, swine flue and pharmas… well a report has been launched in the UK into the huge amounts of vaccine orders placed for swine flue which never actually appeared. The W.H.O. recommended that vaccines should be ordered but who were the people on the committees that advised the W.H.O…. ??????
All with a background of massive research and development costs incurred by pharmas that have to be recouperated for shareholders.
What out big brother is watching….
cheers
ian
Cathy..
nice try on your blog..keep it up..
(although i know u never gonna quote me)
;)
biggest hug…
A few pics from Brussels:
http://marcinluczkowski.com/news/?p=197
http://marcinluczkowski.com/news/?p=200
Ian..:)
Has the NHS procured too many swine flu shots?
7. April 2010 03:54
By Dr Ananya Mandal
Britain’s National Health Service (NHS) has nearly 34 million unused swine flu vaccines at present due to a drop in the number of cases and these vaccinations. A total 44 million shots were procured. 3.8 million of these unused shots will be sent to Africa via the World Health Organization to help them. Of the rest, 10.6m is already with GPs who will be ready to act if more people entitled to the jab come forward. But the remaining 23.6m will be held in reserve.
The Conservative party has criticized this as a waste of taxpayer’s money.
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20100407/Has-the-NHS-procured-too-many-swine-flu-shots.aspx
Marcin..
from the first link i love the 4 photo (boy with soccer ball)…
i really like your black n’ white…the skies…i dont know if its digital
or what…not that it matters..it works…looks good..feels good..bravo…
marcin, from second link i like 1st and 3rd photo…i like the light on girls face…sweet
Panos
Rollei retro 200, b&w film I finally liked
aha….nice..i wish the blog would let me Enlarge the photos..i wanna see them big…eye candy
first series of snaps have 900 px second 700, click on open the image will be larger.
http://marcinluczkowski.com/photonews/0205.jpg
Panos
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8455035.stm
this investigation is now being launched
Panos, this of course is all being dredged up as smear in the run up to the election.
It might well have some truth in it but don’t underestimate those expenses grabbing, illegal lobbying, pocket lining, orphan works inducing, MP’s in the house of commons and their world of spin….
It’s a murky world
Ian
pharma companies…looking for customers…
(FEAR TACTIC)
“…WHO Director-General Lee Jong-wook says that if a flu pandemic were to emerge, the drugs could be flown quickly to the center of a potential pandemic…)…”
He warns that if a pandemic did happen and there are no preparations, there would be millions and millions of deaths
The WHO and other experts have been repeatedly urging governments to buy in antiviral drugs like Tamiflu and Relenza.
In the last major flu pandemic in the late 1960s, 4 million people died and health authorities say another is long overdue…”
(PEPSI VS COCA COLA)
GlaxoSmithKline is currently caught up in a legal battle with Biota, Relenza’s creator, over Glaxo’s failure to support Relenza on the global market.
Roche has already received orders from around 30 countries, including Britain, France and Germany, for enough of the drug to cover between 20 and 40 percent of their populations.
(DRUGS NOT GOOD ENOUGH??????)
However Lee warns that the drugs, although they could buy time, were not in themselves enough and countries must step up surveillance and develop their own plans for an outbreak.
(MAKING MONEY BUSINESS)
Roche has already received orders from around 30 countries, including Britain, France and Germany, for enough of the drug to cover between 20 and 40 percent of their populations.
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/08/24/12689.aspx
iAN..
hmm yes…i hear u…
MARCIN..
thanks…bigger is better..he he
It’s a murky world
True, and unless we are committed to the effort it takes to do some responsible journalism on a subject, we’ll always end up trusting too much the writings of others who probably, but may not, be pushing an agenda that they consider a bit more important than the facts. Or just guessing, based on prior knowledge and trends.For example, Like Panos, I am prone to suspicion when big businesses recognizes an urgent need for governments to spend billions on their products. On the other hand, I’m suspicious when conservatives bitch about government spending on health care. Regarding Swine Flu, my ignorant knee jerk reaction is to spend the money. People really were dying when the first outbreak hit. The possibility of an Armageddon-like influenza outbreak is real, if not virtually assured at some future date, certainly without aggressive coordinated worldwide intervention by governments, big pharma and healthcare professionals. So I don’t get too upset about that kind of spending, particularly when we’re spending oh so much more to protect us from the possibility that some nut in a cave will attack us with 2000 nuclear warheads launched from outer space, or some such scenario.
Hi Michael with regards to the spending on vaccines they were “damned if they didn’t and damned if they did” I agree.
It dirty politics to dredge this p during electioneering… but they know no bounds.
cheers
ian
MARCIN,
The larger images really show off that film…I like the boy with the soccer ball and also teh man walking into the building with all the horizontal lines – that one is much better larger, the first time I didn’t catch the lighting on the door he’s headed for….
And the first one from the second link…what I thought was vignetting appears to be actual shadows on the wall and the bus?
good light all,
andrew b.
Enough with your shaky , dizzy “movies” Eva said…
ok then..i agree ..here is a good ol’slideshow…What really went down that Easter Day..or Lamb greek day???
NEW SLIDESHOW
NEW SLIDESHOW
NEW SLIDESHOW…click below ( set the timing to 5 seconds )
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg06#slideshow/5457371151243022850
or..if u hate slideshows…click below…PROOF SHEET…then click on each photo to enlarge…
Breaking news…
NEW EASTER LINK
NEW EASTER LINK….
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg06#
ahhhh…I am out of lambs …and I lost my pogo stick…
I will be back… 727
Panos,
delicious… =D
Panos,
why you say nothing that your blog is resurrected?
he he….i just started messing with it again…its easier to upload now through picasa…just one click…
technology rules…up to 4 photos per click…no resizing no hassle…
thanks Marcin
http://panajournal.blogspot.com/
Justin,
Thanks for the link to Jeff Jacobson’s works, I knew some his works before. I like his color indeed.
please watch the “movie” here in YouTube…
the cool thing is that you can watch the photos in HD full screen…
JUSTIN P
here is where you can get Gruyaert’s Moscou book
http://www.be-poles.com/en/magasin.php
best, federico
733 reply????? OK …it’s a long long time that I don’t hang out here but… It’s a “titanic” work to try to reach the first page of comment! …see you next year :)
CATHY:
Great photo. Some of the others are pretty typical saddhu photos but the tent one says much more. You’ve found the direction to go in.
I’ve always wanted to go to Kumbh Mela (well India for that matter). Someday I hope, or in my next life.
Best,
CP
Charles, Panos, all,
Thanks for taking a look at my blog. I started it off as a way to show travel photos to friends (thus the sadhu portraits) but got inspired to go in a different direction with it, writing more about my “photographic life” the highs and lows, lessons I learn, etc…just getting started so I’ve got a lot more “serious” work to post.
Here’s a repost of the link:
http://cathyscholl.wordpress.com/
p.s. Charles chances are you’ve already been to India in a previous life :)
Hope you get back there again if you so desire.
Thanks again for the support.
DAH, have you seen what this guy is doing.
http://blog.chasejarvis.com/live/
cheers
ian
Panos, thank you, much better to me.. but.. where’s the sound? ;)
David and All:
ok, just a quick note….as i’ve got a couple of my own announcements….but….it seems like there is a delay in some of that news…for now….so, family time..
i wanted to announce that Marina’s exhibition is one of the Official Featured Exhibitions of this year’s CONTACT Photography Festival. We’re really excited, as it’s a great tribute to her work that her exhibition was chosen as one of the Featured Exhibitions…..her show opens May 1st at the gallery that currently represents her, Xe-Xe Gallery…..I’ll write more later in the month for those interested in attending the opening…..
anyway, for those interested, here is the official word from the CONTACT magazine…
http://scotiabankcontactphoto.com/featured-exhibitions/7
i am really really proud of Marina and am so damn excited for her exhibition this year….a small part of this work was featured on BURN last year….but god damned, wait until you see the exhibition in it’s entirety…
Dah: well, you’ll get a private invite, even though you won’t be around ;)))….but, you always have a place at our dinner table…
hugs
bob
so sorry to be missing all the chatter here, but i have been away from the net for the last 24 hours…walked into the HCB opening at MOMA last night, and haven’t been home since..well, a few hrs sleep on the sofa (Aga and Davin had the main spot) and back to the city which is just vibrant in this spring weather….went to see Allard show at the Leica gallery and a Platon presentation tonight at one of the small gatherings that happen in Soho at Howard Schatz’ studio…Mike finished the last of the big prints for Madrid show of Amer Family and the texture of those large prints from med format film is palatable….i have so so much work to do on this project, but this small show in Spain gives me some impetus to put it back on the front burner…the various assignments i am doing now will help pay for the rest of this project…i flat out ran out of money on the first few months into the family project before…personal projects are expensive…first, the cost of doing them with materials, travel etc, second, and worst, the lost income from not doing anything else income producing..no complaints…that is just the way it is and has always been…ok, let me go back and read to see whats going on with you folks…back soonest…
cheers, david
you….
DAH,
inspire…..
thank you…..
NYC sounds wonderful….
life sounds exciting….
VIVA!!!!
and
enjoy…..
***
CHARLES P
WOW!!! I would love to shoot that… you…… in a movie….. WOW!! intense…… maybe we could rendevous in the pacific northwest when you are there? might be fun…. get in touch if you’re interested….. xo
To all British photographers, the Digital Economy Bill has been passed in the “wash up”, with the offending Clause 43 removed at the 11th hour.
This has been achieved through a vast amount of hard work of a few individuals who took it upon themselves to really get a grip on the issues, galvanise support through twitter,facebook, artful persuasion, very few resources and not alot of time. This goes to show you can be heard.
Other parts of the bill have gone through which will have a huge impact on broadband users (effectively all of us)
Time to celebrate…..
Ian
BOB,
I hope the good news is also coming your way even if a bit later than expeted but, let’s start first with CONGRATS to Marina!!!
DAVID,
Life in the city always seem so active and busy… Not having ever lived in NY is a big regret. There are so many galleries and shows and so much to photograph as well… I need to go back there sometimes….
Separately, still time of course but are you planning to come to Arles or Perpigan this year?
CATHY,
Good to see your blog up and running now… Will we get to see a full essay from your India trip? After all these discussions about being difficult to photograph there and show authorship or originality vs what has been done before, you have obviously not chosen the easiest one…but I know that there is a lot more that attracts you to India beyond the photography… I have to say, I am very curious and keen to see more…
OK, time to go to work….
Cheers,
Eric
good news bob – lovely tribute to your lover marina.. made me smile..
look forward to more good news from the blacks..
d
DAH:
Many thanks for the last two nights! You are always welcome in Bucharest! Please remember to drink the Okocim Polish beer we left you! We will be back in New York in mid to late summer since 3 days was not enough. Next time hopefully we can catch up a bit.
Best wishes,
Aga and Davin
MARINA..:))))))))))
CONGRATULATIONS
CONGRATULATIONS
CONGRATULATIONS
Bravo Ian..
you obviously put an effort on this..
no couch fighting..but really active…
big hug
Marina,
Congrats! :)
ha ha…still laughing…hilarious…
BOB…MARINA
congratulations to both of you…Marina for the show, Bob for your essay on Visura…and your offer of a home cooked meal sounds perfect..thanks
DAVIN …AGA..
i was hoping to see both of you again…we did not have much chance to talk…the morning when i was thinking we would have a relaxing coffee, was unfortunately the morning i thought i might be rushing off to Rio to cover the flooding and mudslides and there was too much going on…anyway, good to see you both….and thanks for the Okocim…you are welcomed guests anytime…
ERIC…
yes, NY a truly great and eclectic city….there is a lot going on…always…but i find NY surprisingly relaxing…if i commuted to work on the train or was stuck in a tunnel trying to get to the office , i might think otherwise..but, i sort of pick and choose and with few things so imperative that i end up in what most think is the NY rush….waiting for you here whenever you can make it…i do not think i will make either Arles or Perpignan…of course i always say that and then end up at one or the other or both..i just cannot prioritize either this year…come to Madrid on 28th and see my first print show of American Family…or down to Tuscany in july…would love to see you…
IAN AITKEN..
yes, yes, very good news…but, as you well know, this battle is never over…but thankfully right at this moment all bodes well for photographer legal authorship etc..
cheers, david
DAH
When is the opening in Madrid? Is it at EFTI?
Although I am not in town I have a few friends I’m sure would love to catch it at some point.
Enjoy my hometown (jealous).
Cheers,
Nacho
NACHO…
yes, exhibit EFTI and opening on friday April 23….so sorry to miss you
cheers, david
Thanks David.
Sorry to miss you and the exhibit. Next time.
I’ll let some people know about it.
abrazo,
Nacho
ERic :))…thanks…i’m patient, so when my news is live, i’ll let it be know to all! :)))..for now, i’m just so happy and thrilled for Marina: it’s a big honor for her and a great exhibition….i’ll leave details closer to the opening for those who want to drop by and see her work.
Panos :)))…thanks brother :)))…spirit alive
Marcin: :)))…will pass it along…
David: :)))…yes, it’s such a brilliant show and Marina’s now putting together the frames and lightboxes (yes, she does all that herself)…it’s an extension of some of the work shown at Burn last year, but god damn, it’s beautiful…and some big prints too :))))…as for me, well, when the essay goes live, i’ll leave a link :))))…and the dinner offer stands…i think you’ll be in another part of the world on May 1st, but you must try some home cooking here….and besides, dima is waiting to meet you (he’s now as tall as you)…..
ok, gotta run….busy busy busy
hugs all
bob
David Bowen :))))…thanks mate…from one dad/husband to another, i know you know the joy (and the stress before a show) that’s beeming here :)))…still waiting to see your view in person of the bay :)))…hugs
b
David: if I´m lucky enough I´ll be able to see you at the opening at EFTI. Do you know exacly at what time the show begins? Also, how long will you stay in Madrid? I will realy like to meet you.
thanks and hope to see you!
cheers
Jorge
bob
shows.. stress.. 6 months planning my first one.. gather sponsorship.. and then having to run to the pub down the road 1 hour before launch to beg wine glasses as i´d completely forgot them :ø)
give marina a hug and please – a black family tour of europe next year
d
David B :)))))…damn, dont we know that ;))))…Marina got a small grant (her first art grant in canada) to help with the printing/framing of the show…we were ecstatic :)))…both of us got rejected from bigger grants (ontario) but waiting to hear from Canadian art Grants…i knew my would go sour, as my ‘statement’ was, well, poetic instead of a ‘real’statement…next year, i’ll write something different, more ‘typical’for grant process…but the stress now…marina printed and now she’s making all the lightboxes herself :)))…and i know that feeling…when we had our family show 2 years ago (me, marina and dima), 1 hr i was running around buying food and platic cups for wine…but shows are never fun for me, until now one is there…i like other people’s shows, it’s fun…and im really excited for Marina’s…going to be amazing and i think people are gonna be rocked in TO…at least i hope…my own show….put it out of my mind, now just want to finish a book…keep the fireplace warm for us…who knows, maybe sooner than anyone expects ;))))
DAVID (ah) and all:
you guys might enjoy this great interview on the HCB show at MOMA…Martine is interviewed as well :)))
it’s great listening to her…great insight into HCb and his work/ideas….i always hated the american/english translation of ‘decisive moment’but the french title makes more sense…he’s the godfather of us all :))
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/martine-franck-on-hcb-at-moma-on-wnyc
hugs
bob
” ..as my ’statement’ was, well, poetic.. ”
:ø)
giggling away at that..
good one..
BRAVO TO THE BOB BLACK FAMILY …
MARINA …BOBBY…DIMA…I am so proud…I am a proud Civilian !!!
I will always remember your support… THANK YOU
and I will always be grateful for all the support…back then…
when the BURNING road trips …were not that BURNING.
KATIE FONSECA,MY GRACIE, DAVIDB, PANOS…ANTON, MR. DAVID ALAN HARVEY !!!
Let’s Celebrate and Dance…
VIVA UNIVERSE !!!
Here’s a question. I was walking across the Brooklyn Bridge at dawn this morning and came upon a film shoot. There was a handsome young man, dressed to kill, preparing for a scene against the sunrise. I hung around for a few minutes, checked out the cameras, and eventually asked the DP who the actor was. Bradly Cooper, from The Hangover, he said. A few passers-bye were taking pictures and the crew seemed unusually relaxed about it. One woman looked like a tourist and had a point-and-shoot, but the way she was moving I’m pretty sure she was a paparazzi. I had the proper gear to take a beautiful photo, a slow-sync against the sunrise with a seriously diffused flash. So it occurred to me to take a picture. Perhaps I could sell it or it would look good in a portfolio if I were to pursue commercial jobs. Should I have taken the picture?
My natural inclination in those situations, to put it mildly, is to walk on by. Recently I went to pick my kid up after school and found him talking with Spike Lee, who was scouting locations in the neighborhood. My kid had gotten his autograph, which really pissed me off. We’ve had many discussions over the years about not bothering celebrities and I’d often talked about my feelings about the idea of getting an autograph (retarded), yet all that flew right out of his head in the presence of the celebrity (Lee was very nice, btw).
So how exactly would my taking a picture of Bradly Cooper be any different than my kid asking Spike Lee for an autograph? Because I might profit from it? Actually, when speaking with the kids about autographs, I told them that the fact that an autographed copy of something might increase its value is the only comprehensible reason for getting one. But still, I’m not a celebrity photographer, don’t want to be one, and the guy was busy preparing for a scene. So it would be bothering him. Although they were cool with the passers-bye taking snapshots, I’m not sure how they would have felt on seeing pro gear come out. Then the question would arise of whether to be an asshole for the shot or not. I walked on by.
So what do you think? Right thing to do? Or needlessly self-defeating?
Absolutely right thing to do….:)
MIchael
I would have done the same.
But then, I’m probably too reluctant to intrude in most situations, even those situations where I’m being paid to be there, like a weddng, or where I have permission, like at a concert. In my case it is about not wanting to disturb the moment, or intrude, but mostly, it is about not wanting to draw attention to myself and come off as an annoying asshole. This has often been to my detriment, and results in me not getting the shots I could have.
As an example, last summer at a music festival I asked the organiser if he would be OK with me getting some shots from the stage during the finale performance. He said yes, absolutely. Now this guy is a friend, I’ve just spent a week in classes with the performers, many in the audience are friends, but I still could not bring myself to wander up closer than I did, and as a result missed the opportunity to make better photos.
As far as photographing celebs, or asking for autographs, I think for them, it must be part of the territory. Celebs may complain about the papparazzi, but could not become celebs without them. I sure many celebs are pleased and flattered when asked for autographs, or to pose for pics.
Dunno, just some thoughts.
DAH ! sounds like you had an amazing trip – can’t wait to see the HCB exhibit
Davin / Aga…how did we miss each other?
Bob – loving hug to Marina
All – remember the EPF deadline ( i am reminding myself! too) and also just saw the following – my heart might simply break if i could do this workshop, i find Antoine to be one of the most dear people I have ever met, and his work, that goes unsaid, but Fez is very far away..
1000 Words is proud to present its first workshop with the Magnum photographer, Antoine d’Agata, in Fez, Morocco (25-31 October 2010). We are making a call for photographers, professional and amateur alike, to submit entries for this unique creative experience.
“It isn’t the eye that photography poses on the world that interests me but its most intimate rapport with that world”
Antoine d’Agata
Please follow the link below for more information and how to submit.
http://1000wordsphotographymagazine.blogspot.com/2010/04/1000-words-workshop-with-antoine-dagata.html
heart break – in a beautiful, opening way, not the sad kind…
Micahel, I probably would have done the same. I also agree with Gordon about the autograph part, though. Celebs expect and accept (some better than others) that people will take photos/ask for autographs. To me, it’s all about being appropriate and thoughtful on if, when, and how you approach them for either.
For instance, for the past 9 years I have been attending a major men’s tennis tournament (The W&SF Masters in Cincinnati). Over the years I have gotten better and better seats, and now have really good seats low and on the baseline. About 4 years ago, I started trying to get decent shots of the players from various points in the stands and my seats, and have had some success.
The players at the event are very approachable as long as you follow the etiquette – for instance, they will almost always come over and sign autographs and chat with the crowd after they practice – but trying to get their attention or an autograph before or during their practice session is frowned upon (literally and figuratively).
A few years ago, I started taking 5×7 prints of the best shots with me (2 of each print), with the idea that it might be kind of cool to have autographs of the players on the photos I shot. So far, I have autographed copies of my photos of Rafael Nadal, Andy Murray, Lleyton Hewitt, Carlos Moya, Mardy Fish, and Novak Djokovic.
I don’t get the autographs to sell or improve the monetary value of the prints, but the expereience is rewarding. When Nadal took the print from me to sign, he looked at it, looked at me, and said “This is from here last year?”. I suppose he recognized the clothes he wore. I said yes, and he smiled and said “Was a good tournament” as he signed it (he won the tournament the year the photo was taken). I replied “yes, it was a good win” and then offered him the other copy of the print, which he took and tucked into his bag, smiling. That, to me, was an appropriate exchange. I had a a similar but even longer chat with Mardy Fish.
I think it’s all about being appropriate. My wife and I were having breakfast in the hotel when I noticed that Lleyton Hewitt was sitting at the next table with his family. As we were leaving, I simply nodded to him and I think he expected me to approach him, and I could tell didn’t want that then (nor was I intending to). I just said “nice match yesterday”, at which point he visibly relaxed and said “thanks” as I walked by….
So, in your situation I don’t think I would have gotten out the camera….someone here on burn or roadtrips once made a comment about all the photos we have that are just in our heads, and how they can and do stay there….entirely appropriate.
good light to all…
A.
ecmd….I was just telling my family I have always wanted to see Morocco, Fez especially…that would be a dream trip, indeed.
I am leaving this message from the new iPad at apple store which seems to be doing a brisk biz.. pretty cool
David…
u come wayyy second… Cathy (been there done that) did this already…
;)
Congratulations Marina and I giggled at your comment Bob, poetic statement.
Come on BURNIANS …let’s do the I-BURN…
We can do it …Apple people …we can do it…
mixed fruits from all over the world…
i-BURN
you-BURN
we-BURN
JIM,
is my cold beer ready??? I might cross the waters…
I’m probably out of focus here :). Or maybe I’m just catching up… I’m still stuck on the theme of digital media and photography. With it comes the question of the value of the still image. Any thoughts, links, anything?
I’ve just read “The seeing eye: photojournalism in a digital age” a 2005 article from Adrian Evans (Panos Pictures).
“The still image, after all, can tell a story so much more powerfully than the moving image. The photograph exists in its own space, a contemplative space which gives the viewer time to dwell on the image and consider its meanings.”
Besides this, another issue:
“(…) except that it was taken, along with many current dramatic photographs (of the Asian tsunami or the London bombings, say), by an amateur.
What these photographs lack and what photojournalists give to their photographs is the sense of authorship.”
in full
http://www.opendemocracy.net/arts-photography/journalism_2984.jsp
Or this, about the book After Photography by Fred Ritchin:
“The days of darkrooms and negatives are mostly behind us, according to Ritchin’s exploration of how digital technologies are changing the landscape of news photography.”
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1867320,00.html
Ryan Lobo on Ted: “I found myself taking photographs (…) I feel that I had photographs that told a better story than sometimes a sensational documentary… (film?)” – first seconds of the conference.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ryan_lobo_through_the_lens_of_compassion.html
After all day scanning my old films I am able to say that I hate photography… especially my own 8D
DAVID,
I spend some time watching Magnum archive (during scanning) and I was thinking about your words about family pictures, personal projects, staying home vs. traveling around the world and I have to say I still not agree with you and I think the magnum archive is good evidence for that. I know Bruce Davidson worked mostly in NY, but NY is almost like small country so it is not count. Sobol’s Sabine is best example but it was not from place he lived, but place where he choose to live for a while. And then he change his life.
The rest are travelers, nomads, even if they have a lot of family pictures in archive, they was not nominated by pictures from home.
And I think even Mrs.Sanguinetti was only one shot.
I talk about documentary photography of course.
I wondering there is a place in Magnum for young photographer who live in small town, who takes family and local pictures? Without wars, drugs or travels?
Do you believe in local photography as a life work not a short essay as a springboard to career?
Because it’s all about for me, first step, great personal project, but what next?
Especially right now in digi and internet era there is a millions excellent of local stories, food for a minute. Very nice but fast anyway. Let say sushi fast-food.
Is there an another option for a young documentary photographer from small not important but find a way to get out for something inspired?
Soon or later…
If not, well I spend whole day scanning family pictures, maybe there is a place in magnum for me? lol
Have a safe trip to Rio.
Wish you all good and far travels with personal stories to tell. :)
my eyes want to kill me so this is the time to sleep. Tomorrow… scanning :)
INTERVIEW: “Nan Goldin with Nobuyoshi Araki” (1995)
http://www.americansuburbx.com/2008/01/theory-naked-city-interview-with.html
i had no idea that Araki had published 100 books!!!!!!!!????????
N Goldin : Do you ever have sex with your models?
N Araki : Almost always. A photo shoot is very erotic; it’s part of the atmosphere.
sorry ..the number of Araki’s published books is 350….and counting!!!!!
HCB@MOMA? I must go see that one of these days.
I hope I can ask this question here, if not sorry and please reply offline. But I am finally framing work with the expectation of one day framing a whole show the same way for this body of work. Do most of you, and DAH interested in what you do, prefer to frame your work with glass or plexi? I usually use glass but I want to do it right from the beginning for this series. I know plexi is better for shipping, but scratches easier and glass could break when shipping(I am not really shipping at the moment, so should I be thinking about that?). What do most of you that exhibit prefer to use? thanks Valery
“I LOVE TO MAKE PEOPLE COME”
Nan Goldin
Marcin, I don’t get what you’re saying. But I guess that’s predicated on a couple things that may not be true. I’m sorry if you talk about it and I’ve never absorbed it, but I don’t recall you ever writing about having a wife and/or children. And you don’t seem to be the type that simply must live in luxury. If that’s the case, and maybe even if it’s not, why don’t you travel if that’s what you want to do? Pick a place, save enough money for a three or four months rent when you get there, get there and scrape by with whatever work you can get. Bonus points for picking a place where you can make interesting day trips. Big cities like Paris or New York have endless corners to explore. Regional big cities often abut mountains or deserts or something. If you want to take and publish photos while your there, it’s easy these days. Digital camera and a cheapo laptop are all you need. That’s how it works for people born without a trust fund. And it works pretty well. Not always, but often enough. Or if you don’t want to travel, if you want to stay in your small town, come to terms with reality and set your sites in a different direction (not lower) than Magnum. Document what you see. Find publishers that publish that kind of work. Or become a publisher. That’s how that works. That’s what I’ve seen in the small towns and big cities I’ve known. The successful people (whatever that means) tend to love the work and do the work. Good things tend to come from that attitude. That’s been my observation, anyway. Your experience may differ.
Thanks everyone, I think I have decided on Museum Glass.
Rodolfo,
Small world that you mentioned Ryan Lobo and his TED talk. I just met Ryan in India.
He was one of the photographers sitting with me at the camp of Amar Bharti Baba, the Naga Baba I just wrote about yesterday in my blog. Here’s the link in case you are interested.
http://cathyscholl.wordpress.com/
I am planning to email Ryan and send him some photos I took of him. He’s a very nice guy.
PANOS…
I think we’ve finally found our common bond! :)))
I LOVED the Nan Goldin clip.
Yes, it was entertaining for the obvious reasons but I LOVED what she said about being “fully present in the moment and also be able to hold onto it at the same time” I can relate to that.
What do you think Nan would do in a situation like this where I was photographing hundreds of naked men? :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30716737@N08/4412480852/
Hey Marcin
I think you need some tough love :>)) But not in a Nan Goldin sort of way !
I have the impression that you might be putting too much emphasis on Magnum and what Magnum
photographers are doing.
Sort yourself out and what you want your photography to do or say and the rest will follow.
I just spent a lot of time going back through your blog and, quite frankly, you have many very
strong images that would easily hold their own, on an image by image basis, against a lot of what
is searchable on the Magnum site.
Where the disconnect happens for me is that there is nothing concrete binding them together in
a cohesive way.
There are a number of compelling images from what I assume is your hometown but the images give me a
feeling that you are not completely engaged-almost like you’re shooting because you’re there but
really almost wish you would be somewhere else.
Your hometown and country might not be plagued with famine, war, or drugs but you are fortunate
to live in one steeped in history, past struggle, and culture. Take advantage.
With a little guidance from someone like DAH I have no doubt you could create a very powerful
visual document of your tiny corner of the planet.
Would it get you into Magnum. Who knows?
Would it be something editors or publishers would be interested in. Who knows?
All I know is I,already, see work you have produced that would entice me to buy a book
should it become available.
Best,
Mark
I so badly want to keep up with the discussion here, but I can’t. Too much to try to do and I’m so exhausted! Ah, but what I would give for even one good night’s sleep.
I’m back in Wasilla, now, but still photo blogging about my three days in New York. Nothing deep, no essay – just me wandering around being a typical tourist with a pocket camera, but you’re all welcome to drop by, anyway.
I will get caught up, eventually, and then I will drop in more here, and also on more of your sites, and I will see if I can make sense of the discussion and drop in a salient word or two.
Thanks Cathy. Interesting…
I only mentioned his talk ’cause of the initial seconds and the ideas on still images.
Maybe I’m just struggling something thats common sense…for you all?
Cheers.
Miachael, Mark,
Not everything I wrote here ob burn is about “me” and “my” photography. I should say most of time I am not writing about “my photography”, but generally or rhetorically. And that was this time. Even if I wrote at the end “maybe there is a place in magnum for me?” it was only as a joke.
And this time I was thinking (and still do) about successful local work as a life time work.
I mean can we spend a whole life in small town and document local society? or like Sobol for example do the whole story in two years, and then Guatemala or Ecuador.
We can select 100 pictures from 80 years work, and we can select 100 pictures from one year work.
What you think about it? I am curious.
And I don’t talk about self satisfaction photography ( because it is closed, and unquestionable), but something with worldwide meaning.
Do world is curious about one small town somewhere nowhere more that in one 100 pictures story?
I am sure I was not clear first time, sorry.
I will write more later. must run
“I am sure I was not clear first time, sorry.”
And I am not sure I am now, but I will think about how to write it to be clear.
MARK,
“I have the impression that you might be putting too much emphasis on Magnum and what Magnum
photographers are doing.”
For sure I am :)
But isn’t’ the Magnum agency is some kind of reference point for documentary photography? The standards?
So many different views of life on this planet.
ALL
It is not mean that I am not respect local document. It is not mean that I think you have to leave your home to make a good essay.
But firstly dissuasion with David was about “what do you will advice to young photographer, stay home or travel the world”.
His advice, was stay home.
My advice, travel the world.
But also David have his students and I have mine. And this is what I say to all my students who want make career in documentary “challenge the world”.
And I am sure nobody will take advantage.
And also I think there will be no difference, stay home or travel, you always can do personal photography.
It is depends on your talent and intellect.
And when you stay home and you do your first great, successful personal story it will be time when you will have to choose again- stay or leave, for a new story.
thats what I think and will advice.
And please don’t reference my first comment to my photography, Mark made a few good points writing about my work. I stared taking pictures to fix my social relations, but it will never be good enough. Also traveling is very very important part of my life, for me and my wife. But it not influence to my point of view.
And even if I do not leave everything today and travel the world searching for a great stories, it not change my point of view. And I don’t think it is hypocrisy, to say someone what I will never do my own. Or maybe…
Anyway I agree with Steve McCurry; ‘If you want to be a photographer, first leave home.’
What do you think Nan would do in a situation like this where I was photographing hundreds of naked men? :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30716737@N08/4412480852/
——————————————————–
he he…She would love to make everyone come…:))))))))))
Panos,
When I look at your works I see Goldin’s strength. You need only a time.
Marcin, travel doesn’t change your point of view? Seriously? Do you mean about Magnum or in general? Not that I’m any kind of role model, particularly when it comes to photography, but I pretty much figure that if a day goes by without something changing my point of view, it’s a wasted day in this life.
Regarding the question if anyone is interested in the goings on of one little town beyond 100 photos, theoretically I’d think that as long as it contains humans that live, interact, and die, it’s probably got just as much potential as anyplace else. The burden of creating a good story isn’t on the elements of the story, it’s on the storyteller.
Practically though, I agree with you. Getting out of town is an important step in just about any artist’s career. I’d almost go so far as to say it’s imperative. Lou Reed had a good line in Songs for Drella. “There’s only one good use for a small town, you hate it and you’ll know you have to leave.”
Hey Bill (Frostfog), looks like you had a good time. I had a similar experience with the pretzels. Can’t remember the last time I found a good one. Try bagels. You can’t get a New York bagel anywhere else.
Next time you’re in town, let me know and I’ll show you around Brooklyn. Manhattan’s little more than a giant shopping mall these days.
“Getting out of town is an important step in just about any artist’s career.”
I’d replace “any artist’s career” simply with “anybody’s life”.. not for photography, but for opening up the mind and loose the fear of the unknown, first and foremost.
“Getting out of town is an important step in just about any artist’s career.”
———————————————-
I’d replace “town” with “conscious self”..not for photography, but for opening up the mind and loose the fear of the unknown, first and foremost.
Regarding Marcin’s comment above, about travelling or staying at home, read the photographers words about his work here:
http://vervephoto.wordpress.com/2010/04/09/jens-olof-lasthein/
It’s photographers travelling and taking pictures in places where other photographers live and could take those pictures, but do not, because they (want to) travel to other places to take pictures of people and places other photographers could take but do not because… it’s a funny world we live in, sometimes ;)
initially, at least, mental traveling is much more important than the physical variety..
once that is dealt with and your own backyard is a starting point – wherever you go, (with purpose), can be yer back yard..
wanting to travel is one thing – and needing to travel in order to do what you need to do is quite another.
It’s photographers travelling and taking pictures in places where other photographers live and could take those pictures..but do not, because they (want to) travel to other places to take pictures of people and places other photographers could take but do not because… it’s a funny world we live in…
—————————————————-
i realized this fact early enough…when a photographer (cousin of mine) visited us and started doing portraits of my parents…he was very happy doing it ( just as Cathy shooting gurus :)…
i instantly felt jealous, stupid but learned a lesson…After he left i started doing portraits of my family too…
“travel is great..but not as an excuse to shoot photos”
Herodotus 525bc
“Travel is also great because tourists strengthen the economy of poorer countries”
Makiavelli
ha ha Panos, you are always the best!
“Travel can benefit not only the individual but also the country he is spying for”
Nikita Khrushchev
Никита Сергеевич Хрущёв
Marcin..;)
thank you..i know..
Travelled to 2 countries the last ten years. Travelled to over 30 countries the ten previous years. Both work out fine… But now at least I have a better carbon footprint…
I’d replace “town” with “conscious self”
I’m guessing you’re not from a small town? Not that I am one to dispute the wisdom of leaving the conscious self. One should do both. That’s why I’ll leave it at artists. Rush Limbaugh types go abroad and the only way the world changes is we get more child prostitutes. The only way they change is to get even more self-loathing, which they then take out on others. No, a lot of people should just stay home.
a lot of people should just stay home.
—————————————–
sad but true..
Rush Limbaugh types go abroad and the only way the world changes is we get more child prostitutes.
———————————————–
yeah… they take it out on Thailand…all those things they cant do at “home”..
…all those “things” they cant do at “home”..
———————————————–
although the catholics priest in vatican (& elsewhere) have no hesitation or problem to do all those “things”( child molestation) at “home”…
Car vs plane emissions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNsjl7-zr88
(u be the judge..im not good in math)
John,
isn’t the first ten years take you in to the place where are you now? ( I mean both; Cambodia and career)
If you found own heaven I am not surprised you are traveled two countries only.
Eva,
Yes this is funny that we always looking for something we don’t have. Even if we have a lot.
But also I think this is because we are humans not apes. Because we are always curious what is around the corner. Because we feel the need of another step.
It is hard to discover what is discovered by us.
Besides if we could be as curious all things around us as unknown world, ours brains could blow up. I can’t imagine how I could live if I could be so curious everyday everything whats around me.
But also it’s not mean I have discovered what is hidden but next door in my tenement house.
Funny indeed
btw… we all know what is a contrail ( crystals from airplane exhausts in high altitudes )..
but do we know what is chemical CHEMTRAILS????????????????
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a4bt_chemtrails-exposed-on-discovery-cha_shortfilms
marcin – I know you put ny as a hometown in a different category – but it still presents you with many of the same issues of shooting in any home town. I’d like to be on the road a lot more than I am, but you have to find your voice no matter where you are. maybe making work in smaller hometowns just means you have to look inside a bit more and work outside the traditional boundaries to come up with something powerful.
Marcin,
I’m happy you brought this up, not only for the conversation but also to give Panos the chance to drop some new classic quotes.
I agree with just about everything you’ve said, and I hope DAH gets a chance to respond. For further thought,
here’s a link to an interview with Susan Meiselas in which she says, “We have to know about each other. Photography gives us that opportunity.” Her words can certainly be applied to photographers traveling for projects and also to staying at home to do work in our backyards.
http://fiftycrows.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/affecteffect-photographs-that-create-change-susan-meiselas-discusses-all-potential/
Travel broadens your experience? I was in New Jersey once, does that count?
“Herodotus, Macchiavelli, and Nikita Khruschev…” … all old ‘homeboys’ from my own ‘hood… nice to see them chiming in to the discussion.
While I am enjoying the humor here from Panos and Eva in particular, and I applaud anyone who is thinking about reducing their carbon footprint, I think Marcin is also asking some questions that deserve a lot more careful thinking about.
The whole complex of issues involving travel and photography is something that deserves (I would even say demands) a lot of scrutiny, a lot more scrutiny, and then even still more scrutiny. Since the mid 19th century, travel and photography have been inextricably linked, the two feeding off each other. Travel and tourism is now the world’s largest industry (for better and for worse), and photography is largely responsible for that.
Before the mid 20th century, only very rich people were tourists. Except for sailors and a few merchants like Marco Polo, if other people travelled, it was to go on religious pilgrimages, emigrate or visit relatives who had emigrated, or go to war. These were all life-risking, long, and expensive journeys, not lightly undertaken. They were often one-way journeys.
You could probably find a number of things that tipped the world towards travel becoming something more universal and accessible… steam ferries, railroads, the automobile, the urbanization of formerly rural populations, the First World War, etc… but in my mind it was the Second World War, more than any other event, that first really sent masses of people, not just the rich, all over the world to places they otherwise would never have heard of and never have thought of… (some of them hellish like Guadalcanal, but some of them delightful, like Paris, Hawaii, or Colombo)… followed by the development of civilian jet transport on a mass scale in the 1950s and 1960s. The rising tourism industry after World War II was stimulated by magazines like National Geographic, Holiday, Life, Look, and Esquire, and building of Disneyland in California and Henry Kaiser’s development of Waikiki in Hawaii as the ultimate American middle class tourist destinations of the 1950s. The fact that the US became an imperial power, with troops and their families stationed in far-flung countries around the world, helped stimulate this as well. By the late 1960s and early 1970s, there were jet airports and package tours almost anywhere in the world you could think of, and travel and tourism had become a normal and expected part of the lifestyle of even the lower middle classes, and every major newspaper had regular travel sections.
Photography was the single most important means for stimulating and channeling the demand for tourism. And travel also was a major stimulant to the business of photography… selling cameras, film, prints, and slide projectors to the middle class, as well as employing myriad photographers, both ‘journalistically’ and commercially. Many people bought their first ‘real’ camera as part of preparation for going on a big trip. The primary reason for travel may not have been to take pictures, but the act of travel and the act of taking pictures became inextricably linked in the public imagination.
So it was inevitable that after seeing all those photos in National Geographic, some people not only imagined themselves going to those same places, but also imagined themselves taking those same pictures, or other ones like them. And maybe even finding a way to make picture-taking help pay for the trip. The real ‘American Dream’ has always been to turn a hobby into a paying enterprise.
So before you disdain people for wanting to travel to take pictures, think about this history, think about why you want to travel, why you want to take pictures… where it all comes from. Maybe none of this applies to any of you personally…???? Like John Vink, in the past ten years I have only been in 2 countries (and never gone further than 100 miles from home)… but in the previous 15 years, I was in 15 different countries, many of them multiple times, and flew completely around the world twice. The previous experience led me to where I am now… both mentally and geographically. I don’t see how I could have got here otherwise.
This is not meant to be the last word on travel and photography… in fact, just my opening shot!
So carry on the discussion, and leave no stone unturned… this is not a topic to be dismissed superficially.
Now back to work for me…
Cheers all,
Grumble.. wasn’t trying to be humorous.. dead serious.. mumble..
Sidney, I understand and might even agree with what you say, and no, I don’t think travelling for photography is a bad thing (as long as you pay respect, just like at home), but I still think that to become a good, great, photographer you don’t need to rush to the other side of the world.. if you are a great photographer then you are it wherever you are.. that’s what I mean and where I disagree with Marcin.. if I’ve understood well what he was saying..
for me…..
its about the story I want to tell…..
that always comes first….
or more accurately,
its an idea that I want to explore through imagery,
that comes first….
not a location….
***
Andrew, thanks for that link, interesting!
Eva, I think Marcin is saying that you have to travel if you hope to get with an agency like Magnum, not to become a great photographer. Though I may be wrong about that. Maybe he equates the two?
You know I could say pretty much the same thing about traveling to two countries in the past ten years and 15 in the ten years before that. Perhaps that’s a common part of growing older, at least for those who really loved to travel when we were young. Seems now that a lot of the people I know who stayed home back then are traveling a lot more than I do now, though how they travel is not how I travel (and actually, I’m at the point where I’m traveling no matter where I am).
You all are probably familiar with Paul Bowles’ distinction between a traveler and a tourist?
The difference is partly one of time… Whereas the tourist generally hurries back home at the end of a few weeks or months, the traveler, belonging no more to one place than the next, moves slowly, over periods of years from one part of the earth to another… another important difference between tourist and traveler is that the former accepts his own civilization without question; not so the traveler, who compares it with the others, and rejects those elements he finds not to his liking.
That’s from The Sheltering Sky. I could swear he has a better, or at least more concise, definition in <Their Heads are Green and Their Hands are Blue, but I can’t find it on line.
get your burn submissions in – 6 days and counting…it didn’t take that long
mmm.. interesting what susan says, about NOT having an idea before shooting…. just shoot and see what you get…. mmmmmm…. will be thinking about this today….. * I guess thats what happened with my last project, and I ended up with a film which was entirely different than expected…. and now with my current project I’m trying to organize it…. perhaps too much?!? Its very organic in nature, but in a way I am trying to keep it ‘organized’ mmmmmmm…… this is good for me…. good for me to think about… something seems clear to me, or clearer….. again burnians, thank you…. **
For a student to achieve the highest level of his/her craft requires to be trained by the greatest mentor…
Hi all…
interesting discussion on the hometown vs. travel scenarios….will take a bit of time to digest some of the posts and will come back with thoughts, as I seem to have the best and worst of both worlds (physical travel with not much mental travel?) and things are a bit jumbled at the moment….I do like the distinction Michael brings out, from Bowles, about the traveler and the tourist…
***
But regarding travel, who plans to be at the NY Photo Festival next month? I am trying to get to NYC for it.
DAH, will you be in town? I believe I owe you a coffee or cold one or three, and would love to get to finally visit Burn headquarters….
PANOS,
I know that you once called yourself a “photo-mythologist” but it’s clear that what you really are is a “photo-iconoclast.”
The distinction between tourist and traveler that Michael quotes from Paul Bowles is a good one to keep in mind, as long as one realizes that the reality for many people who might imagine themselves to be ‘travelers’ and not ‘tourists’ is probably somewhere in between. My own experience, admittedly limited and personal, is that most would-be ‘travelers’ overestimate their ability to understand and identify with other cultures, and underestimate the hold that their own upbringing retains on their outlook and perceptions. This is not a reason not to travel… quite the opposite, I think, but a lot of would-be ‘travelers’ are hopeless romantics who easily engage in self-delusion. (No one here, of course!!!)
You speak greek better than me Sidney.. :)
soooo its Macchiavelli and not Makiavelli…
thank you Sidney…
Like, caffè Macchiato and not Makiato….I see..makes sense :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_macchiato
PANOS,
Actually, ‘Machiavelli’ with one ‘c’ seems to be the preferred spelling… my mistake!
Travel is important, but much in the same way that reading Shakespeare in college is important. It satisfies curiosity and can make you a more rounded person. A Magnum photographer though travel does not make. The travel is more like a by product of being a Magnum, Nat Geo, etc etc photographer. If you don’t have the singularity of vision and ambition (drive) then it doesn’t matter whether you stay on the couch at home or on the couch in Bangkok.
MARCIN,
I know you say you are speaking in generalities, but it often comes off as the ol’ “doctor can I ask you about a friend of mine?” nugget. You know, I’ve been there. Seattle isn’t exactly a small town but it isn’t NY or LA or London either. In some ways it’s probably a lot less picturesque and boring then Poland. But staying here I have managed to publish five books. I always wanted to move to NY but it never happened. Maybe for a reason. Yes, I’ve traveled some, but that was mostly because I wanted to. Raised the money and got on an airplane just for the sake of seeing something different. No aspirations of Magnum (though I’ve had those, and they are long dissipated). Now my travel involves my wife, a 15 month, a stroller, nap times, etc etc – hard to do serious photography with that baggage (which I wouldn’t trade for anything). I still have my days of what the fuck am I doing with my life (read career) but am coming to except that as a healthy question vs a self pitying mantra.
And those subjects that made me “famous” were just friends bands playing in divey clubs to 50 of our other friends. No way did any of us have fantasies that we would become big. We just did what we had to do because we enjoyed doing it. Same with my break dancing project. Monday nights up the street. Yes, I eventually shot some in NY and LA but once you have the reason to travel elsewhere not that hard to get on a plane and just do it.
Marcin, my advice to you would be to take a period of time (6 months?) and stop looking at other’s photographs and only look at your own. Seriously. And find the glue that holds them together. Find YOUR eye and stop worrying about how Magnum photogs might have or have not gotten to where they are today. Then go shoot some more (locally or travel someplace exotic), put on a show somewhere (it doesn’t have to be the ICP – the local cafe is fine). Really, stop comparing yourself to others and just go do the work. I have a feeling this is the exact advice DAH would impart, to you or any other photographer, small town or big city.
Okay, now I’ve got to travel down to the basement (the man cave) and do some work myself. Too much blogging doth not make a photographer’s soul sing nor wallet fat.
Best,
CP.
Machiavelli, one ‘c’ only is correct, ‘macchia’ with two ‘c’ means blotch, spot, stain, that’s what you do when you put the coffee into the milk, ‘latte macchiato’ means nothing else than stained milk.. okok, lesson over, moving to the kitchen, feeding the herd..
Good points, Charles. And better advice, I think.
I’m a little suspicious of the Bowles quote I typed up above. It’s not him speaking. It’s a character in a novel, one whose being set up for bad things in a foreign land, though I think it does echo his true thoughts on the matter. The one from Bowles writing as himself is a bit different, but he is a very nuanced writer and I don’t want to misquote it from memory. I’ll see if I can find it later. For those of you unfamiliar with Paul Bowles though, I don’t think there’s a better writer for making the point that it’s difficult for travelers to truly understand the foreign cultures in which they travel. Read The Delicate Prey if you want about 20 excellent examples. But take care, it could scare you off from traveling forever, particularly A Distant Episode.
Charles,
It will be hard to defense now :)
Anyway this is always good advice.
and also, MARCIN — I’ve been seeing your pictures for awhile now here on Burn, and you if I may say are a very very good photographer, a natural. Listen to Charles — great advice — you will come up with a wonderful collection of images from 6 months of photographing. I think you shoot film — very expensive — digital is expensive too but you have instant feedback. There are some amazing digital cameras now for very little money, relatively speaking.
Guys,
Thanks for this nice words about my photography. I really appreciate.
And for sure from now I will be less a teacher, it not work good for me :)
Anyway I work hard, not show most of work in my blog, but for sure still problem with distance.
keep the discussion alive, I am curious what you think.
generally, home-travels
I am a serious traveler…hiiiii
Who was the last BURNIAN …down in RIO area…hmmm???
Peace, Love and Photography !!!
P.S What are you drinking CHARLES…I want the same…opa!!!
SIDNEY,
what a memory !!!SPEECHLESS
…what are you drinking too???
CIVI,
Tonic water and orange juice, half and half.
The best traveling I ever did was on foot and by train, nearly broke, and with a tenuous destination. I ended up in Washington State on my way to the Queen Charlotte Islands … and never made it to Prince Rupert because I spent too much money in the bar car on the VIA rail buying rounds for Kiwis and Aussies and circus performers, which led to sleeping with grizzlies near Banff, hitchhiking and riding boxcars down into the American west. Met so many great people along the way, stayed with some, worked for others, ran from a few. When you throw all to the wind and trust fortune amazing things can happen … not all of them good but certainly memorable. Truly immersed. Did more living in four months than much of the 20+ years since. It’s difficult to find that spirit again when things are comfortable, and with all manner of commitments. It helps to be young, on many levels, or perhaps to never quite “grow up.” :)
Sorry to interrupt…
Inside is out: a new ‘magazine’ is born (432 pages, hard cover)…
Bilingual Slovak and English. LOTS of pictures.
http://www.inside-magazine.org/
marcin – came across this and thought of you and the working in one familiar place question…
All Zones Off Peak
Tom Wood
All Zones Off Peak is an extraordinary book. Tom Wood has spent over fifteen years and shot over 3,000 rolls of film photographing Liverpool and its people from a bus. Visually stunning and dramatically revealing it is a body of work of immense power.
Fantastic concentration… an epic of the everyday
– Mark Haworth Booth
I can not think of a more engaging body of contemporary work
– Chris Killip
As good a set of photographs as one sees every five or ten years – if you’re lucky – Lee Friedlander
JOHN VINK :))))
in some stupid fucked up way, i feel like a long-lost uncle to that damn project and it makes me, personally, so fucking happy to see it go large large in print :))))….so for you, i’ll share this quote with you…the same quote that I used when I gave my speech about the work 2 1/2 years ago when I showed it during my project project….this work was the 1st work i showed, and it has always stayed dear to my hear…
so for you, man of only 2 countries traveled: Chatwin
‘We give our children guns and computer games,’ Wendy said. ‘They gave their children the land.’ “–‘songlines’, bruce chatwin
ALL:
NO time…just racing here…tried reading the last 2 pages œuickly….so much i want to say (audience wincing at the thought from a long bob black post again), so, i’ll leave you only this:
about traveling:
from chatwin:
“To lose a passport was the least of one’s worries. To lose a notebook was a catastrophe” -Bruce Chatwin
but also, in songlines, he wrote:
“As a general rule of biology, migratory species are less ‘aggressive’ than sedentary ones.
There is one obvious reason why this should be so. The migration itself, like the pilgrimage, is the hard journey: a ‘leveller’ on which the ‘fit’ survive and stragglers fall by the wayside.
The journey thus pre-empts the need for hierarchies and shows of dominance. The ‘dictators’ of the animal kingdom are those who live in an ambience of plenty. The anarchists, as always, are the ‘gentlemen of the road’.”-songlines, chatwin
i think travel necessitates growth and equanimity and expansion…but travel HAS NOTHING to do with being in another country or not….i’ve travel my whole life, inside and out…and i’ve known world travelers who I have admired and world traverls who were pricks….and i’ve met small town folk who taught me more than Heroditus and small town folk who made me as depressed about our species as one could get….it is about the journey…but it is not about the placement of journey, nor the place of journey….it is infact about something simpler….the detachment of the need to claim…and traveling often gives that to you….but you dont need to scour the world to understand that…..
meatyard rang the photographic world extraordinary, as has sally mann, within the small cosmos of their backyard….and HCB ran the world magic with all his world travels….in the end, that aint it, folks…..it’s something simpler…..
and that journey is about your relationship to journey….and for some that bell gets bullied by travel and for some that bell gets licked because of something that rang true in one small corner….
go into the world, with or without your fucking passport :)))
running now, for real
b
:
Been hard at work on three deadlines the past few days so haven’t been around Burn very much. But now that I’m here, I first want to congratulate Marina on her exhibition being featured by Contact Toronto. Marina, you deserve all the success that is coming your way. You are a true original.
And then I’m finding the discussion about travel and photography most interesting. But I want to bring up a slant I don’t think has been addressed.
The assumption seems to be that if a photographer travels to undertake a photo essay, the subject will be more dramatic, exotic or in some way different from what she/he might find at home. For instance, Cathy’s travels to India come to mind. And, judging from the links she’s posted, her experiences were certainly different from what she might encounter at home in San Diego or Sante Fe. Fascinating images, Cathy! Looking forward to seeing the essay.
But there can be another side to this travel thing. Maybe one needs to travel in order to tackle a rather mundane subject, for instance a view into the day-to-day life of a person or people who are living in a way that interests you. Maybe the subjects on whom you want/need to focus don’t live next door but rather across the country. But they are people with whom you already have an intimate connection that would give you access you wouldn’t have otherwise.
My friends Phil and Scott are like that. I had to travel halfway across the country to do the essay I wanted to do on gay marriage because I wanted/needed to live in their home while shooting. But there’s nothing exotic or dramatic about this essay. And that’s just how I want it: ordinary as hell. Trust me, I wish Phil and Scott DID live in my community, especially now that I’ve decided I want to do more on this project…much more. That’s going to mean more travel, whether I want to or not.
Alas, my carbon footprint is getting bigger by the day. Not what I wanted to happen. Yet I’m in the middle of a project to which I feel totally committed. And I will go wherever I need to go to complete it. I’m just lucky Phil and Scott live in California rather than India!
Patricia
MARCIN:
There is a zen koan that goes something like this:
The master was on his death bed. He told his students that he was scared. His disciples were shocked. “But master” they exclaimed, “you have spent a lifetime teaching us to not be scared of dying. Why are you scared?”
“Because I’m dying, you idiots!” replied the master.
ERICA:
Yeah, thanks for that. Never heard of him but probably should have. Check out this cover to his book Bus Odyssey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tom-Wood-Odyssey-Hatje-Cantz/dp/3775711228/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1
Any link to see a lot of his work in one place would be appreciated.
CP
BOB,
Thanks for that. Maybe explains a bit why I’m so excited about the type of “journeying” I’ve been doing lately. No passport needed. :)
CP
Charles :))))
that’s it brother…and i’ve been reading about your ‘vegetative’ journeys…and am in total support…more later :)))
gotta fly
hugs
b
Hear hear Bob…
Makavelli?! Tupac is dead, Panos, he’s not in hiding, he’s not on Mars, and he sure as hell ain’t roaring down the highway behind the wheel of Elvis’s pink Cadillac while the King downs his fourth peanut butter and banana sandwich of the day. Get over it.
Where is HERVE when we need him most?
Bob Black quoted Bruce Chatwin…“As a general rule of biology, migratory species are less ‘aggressive’ than sedentary ones…” The implication is that this should apply to groups of people as well… Oh, really? I guess this helps explain why the Huns, the Mongols, the Bedouin Arabs, the Sioux and the Cheyenne, the Apaches and the Comanches, were such peace-loving, non-aggressive folk, never giving their more sedentary neighbors cause to worry for their safety or their lives!
I respect Bruce Chatwin a lot as a traveller and essayist, and some of you may remember that “Songlines” was once on my “Great Travel Books” list (which I dearly hope CIVI never, ever brings up here again, please!)… but “Songlines” is a poetic revery, it is not legitimate anthropology or history. It is filled with lovely quotes, mostly taken out of context, to weave what I would call a poetical conceit…
Sorry, Bob, I am not buying this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7GjfyTfjPk&feature=fvw
:)
just for the history
it gets even better…
but it cant get any better than this….:))))))))))))))
Patricia,
Thanks for your kind words. I agree with you absolutely about sometimes going long distances to photograph the mundane. In fact that is the project I have started working on in India. I did not get far enough along with it to announce it yet but I definitely did not go to India looking for exotic…although I didn’t turn it away when it showed up, as in the photos I’ve posted so far :))
Even in the exotic places my interest was in photographing people doing things that are not unusual. I’ll be showing more of this soon.
“Maybe the subjects on whom you want/need to focus don’t live next door but rather across the country. But they are people with whom you already have an intimate connection that would give you access you wouldn’t have otherwise.”
That is exactly the case with my new India project. It’s unfortunately too far and too expensive for me to see these people more than once a year but I’m happy to continue working with them whenever I can.
Yes, you are lucky Phil and Scott live in California!
Have not posted here for a while busy with work, editing. Lots of interesting stuff going on.
Congrats to Marina I will do my best to be there for your opening.
Love Araki. If you have a chance, check out Arakamentari – great documentary that shows him at work and in full-force.
WRT to travel and photography. Agree with most of the posts. I think shooting locally is going to become the norm over time as travel becomes more expensive and restrictive. Also as more people pick up cameras around the world and start developing serious skills there will be less need to send someone to get the shot. Personally I love traveling. Doesn’t matter where just want to go. The previous year I reached elite status on Air Canada, but that was mostly for work. I love airports, don’t know why just do. But now the money is tight and even though I have every desire to go off and tackle interesting places and subjects I am tied to home and my sole source of income (not currently photography). I still shoot whatever I can, luckily there is a vibrant Hip-Hop scene in Toronto, but also lots of family. Would love to shoot Taipei and Beijing. I also wonder if in order to be recognized you have to go somewhere far flung, or go somewhere dangerous. I have discussed this with my wife a lot too. Part of it for me is a need to focus on the positive and the beautiful side of life. We are constantly saturated with images of violence, poverty and suffering. All of which are important to document, but we still need the DAHs, the Alex Webbs and the Martin Parrs that show us the flip side of the coin.
DAH – question re: EPF
Is there any restriction or downside to submitting more than one essay?
Thanks,
Frank
JORGE…
i have no idea the time of my opening in Madrid..but between the two of us , i am sure we can figure it out eventually…i do hope we meet as well…when we met on Road Trips , were you living in Madrid? somehow i had you placed otherwise…
FRANK..
no downside or restriction that i can imagine…
MARCIN…
since i have spent a good part of my life traveling the world , i think you may have misunderstood my suggestion to emerging photographers…of course travel is the ultimate education and i would not trade this for anything, but do not see it as a prerequisite ..what i do gently suggest is that travel not be the modus operendi or primary motivation of your work…in other words, know thyself before trying to know someone else…my only suggestion is that by staying in your own backyard at least for your personal development, then you will able to see others more clearly when “traveling”…and we all know that travel is quite relative anyway…just going to a new part of your city is indeed “travel”..that is you are going to a new place…so travel can be one mile or a thousand miles..makes no difference…simply traveling outside your own comfort zone is the very best…
now i see you are commending Panos for his personal Nan Goldin type style (she does not travel for her work) and at the same time quote Steve McCurry “if you want to be a photographer, leave home”…obviously both photographers succeed in meshing their personal philosophy with their photography…so, whatever works, works..this whole discussion began when we were talking about photographers whose primary excuse for not working is that they cannot “go anywhere”..incidentally, Panos has only “traveled” from his new home to his old home and his very best works are of his friends where he hangs out in L.A. and of family members in Greece….another irony…i have only seen your work from home…yet, you strongly support travel photography and i know you do travel, yet i have seen none of your travel (Thailand) photography …have i missed something?
cheers, david
I haven’t been able to afford to travel overseas for nearly two years. It really bugged me at the start, but now I regard it as a blessing in disguise. It’s meant that I’ve been able to shoot a project closer to home over an extended period of time; something I’ve never attempted before.
Instead of spending three or four weeks, annually (if I can afford it) I can spend every week or weekend shooting it! Even this hasn’t been easy when you have to fit it around paying work.
I feel that shooting at home has pushed my photography forward. Whether that is true is a moot point of course, but I definitely see a difference in my work.
The sheer fact that everything is “ordinary” has forced me to push myself to find interesting compositions etc. It has also opened my eyes to the situations that abound around me.
I suppose on another level you can equate shooting overseas, with my shooting the party scene. Both have elements of the exotic that can add drama to images. Consequently I’ve decided to shoot much more of the kids home and everyday stuff. Again; it pushes you because you have no party drama (equate with travel exotic) to add to the situation. I suppose it comes down to finding a unique perspective to “ordinary” stories.
I remember seeing an exercise in a photo book where they got 5 different photographers from different fields; fashion, nature, newspaper etc. They all used one model, in the same shooting space; an Fm2 camera with 50mm lens, one flash, step ladder and a variety of B&W and colour film. It was amazing to see the different perspectives and visions they had and achieved with the same equipment.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m not anti-travel, or paranoid about my carbon footprint etc; I love travelling. This is just a few observations from the last couple of years. When I can afford it once more I will get back into some travel, but hopefully honing my skills at home will help my work overseas. But I’m enjoying the challenge of attempting to find the interesting in the ordinary…
I love this Freeman Patterson quote. I think I’ve posted it before; but what the heck; it certainly applies to the subject!
“Even when my feet are placed in footprints I made previously, and even if I stand there at precisely the same time I did the day before, the angle of light will have altered slightly and the sky will be deeper blue or paler with dust. And I will be a day older. So every time I gaze upon the whole, it will be from a unique perspective. And each of my unique perspectives will be different from each of yours”
Cheers.
does anyone know anything about Imants? he and i were supposed to skype last week and i have not seen him online for awhile…unusual….a bit worried…
hi all. 2 questions re: Emerging Photog submissions
1. Do we need to include a text with the photos? If so, how and where?
2. What image size to use?
Thanks.
David Bacher
MR.HARVEY,
see, what I am going through everyday…looking for my missing BURNIANS…my stomach turns “inside out”…
SIDNEY,
my apologies…your list is a gift …Priceless…
why you don’t switch to tonic and ouzo…I don’t like to drink alone…:)))
FRANK,
we got to meet…I love airports…hmmm…
BURNIANS…I LOVE YOU ALL…Submit…(if you want):)))
federico agostini:
Many thanks for the link. I had not seen that series of books before. They look interesting. How did you know about them?
Marcin:
I was in London on Thursday and unexpectedly came across a copy of Harry G’s Edges while browsing in a book shop to pass the time waiting for a train home. Despite the cost of £57 I bought it. It was sealed up so I had to wait another two and half hours until I got home to look at. This is the best presentation of Harry’s work that I have personally seen so far: the book is quite large and the images are just about full page. The printing is excellent and really shows how beautiful the grain of Kodachrome 200 can be (I am guessing that is the film Harry uses). I had only looked at this work on the internet before and there are images in the book that didn’t seem to say much on the screen but in print become very special. The only minor criticism I have is that the book is landscape format but it has the binding along the long top edge. It feels aesthetically uncomfortable for me to go through a book turning the pages upwards instead of to the left, but perhaps that’s just me.
I was about to urge you to order this book (I know you mentioned you had been looking for it in book shops) but now after reading Charles’s comment I have to agree with him, so forget Edges!
I know myself that during those periods of self doubt as a photographer it is easy to turn to the books of Magnum photographers and others and think this is what I need to do. But that’s a big mistake. I once even thought about having a big book burning so the temptation is not there! But now I find the best thing to do during these times is to just go out and photograph – or just forget photography for a few days.
You are a wonderful artist (both painter and photographer) and every time I look at your paintings on your website I cannot help but think – “All Marcin has to do is transfer that creative energy from his painting to his photography!” (Could you make photographs like your paintings I wonder?) Easier said than done, I know. I’m just repeating here what others have already said to you, but when you go out to photograph try and look deep within yourself like you must for your painting. As for where to photograph, I would love to see you photograph where you are from in Poland – what does that place mean to you?
Cheers,
Justin
David: I was living in Chile. For study reasons I’m living know in Madrid until next year. Since I’m in a study schedule, my free time is pretty limited, but I’ll figure out how we can meet. Now I’m confused with the opening date. Is 23th or 28th? I mean you’ll be here on 23 or 28?
Please visit http://www.jorgeprat.com, to take a look at some of my work.
Please lets keep in touch as the date approaches, so we can fix something to meat each other.
Best regards
Jorge
Could you make photographs like your paintings I wonder?)
————————————————
Marcin i agree with Justin 100%…yeah…there is a great marcin arist inside ready to come out…
with a unique specific visual language ..like your paintings=marcin authorship..
plz dont listen to what steve mc curry said about leaving home to become a photographer..
or whatever..
we dont need to see your version of thailand or your version of istanbul
(when i shot in istanbul i also realized that..nobody really needs to see my version of istanbul either..or my version of greece..we can buy postcards of that…my connections in greece..are the ones that people need to see..not another santorini sunset…
even in istanbul..only my connection with the transvestites was the “real” thing..the rest of photos? ..hmmm steve mc curry postcard crap…
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg02#5443792312652780178
we need to see your version of your truth..
a glimpse of the world that comes from your inside..
Sorry, I meant meet, not “meat”.
As for where to photograph, I would love to see you photograph where you are from in Poland – what does that place mean to you?
——————————–
Again Justin nailed it..agree 100%
How often planes carrying presidents crash?
The odds for something like this to happen are really small..
That’s shocking.
RIP (rest in peace) . Condolences to their familes. VIVA POLSKA!
CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/10/poland.president.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1
Marcin, I’m so sorry to hear this. My sympathies go to the families of all who were killed, and to everyone in your country. I know what a shock it is to lose your President. I still remember vividly the moment I heard that President Kennedy had been shot. Life is so fragile…
Patricia
Completely surreal situation. So many important names were killed in this crash.
Regarding Charles’s advice to Marcin to stop looking at the work of other photographers, that is the path I took about six or seven years ago. Of course I am in no position to put myself out there as a photographic role model, and cannot say if that approach helped me as a photographer, but I am secure in the my belief that it helped me as a human being. I was trained in classic photojournalism. Cartier-Bresson, Gene Smith, Dorthea Lange and Walker Evans, you know the story. I’d published a few photos over the years and took personal pictures, but when I decided to pursue photojournalism again in earnest, I made the conscious decision not to learn anything at all about contemporary photography. I spent those years working it out myself. I’d do a little project, fall in love with the photos, look at them long and hard, realize they sucked, then struggle to come up with strategies that would work better next time. Periodically, I’d get very frustrated and wonder if that was the best I could be which, if that were the case, meant I was hopelessly pedestrian, or, on occasion, ridiculously gimmicky. But I kept at it. Shooting, editing, thinking, looking, thinking, looking, thinking, shooting something else, looking, thinking, and so on. Finally, last summer I did a couple projects I felt good about and decided to come out of the woods and re-engage with photojournalistic society. Through a series of accidents, I ended up here. Again, whether those years spent mostly alone with my demons in the wilderness resulted, or will result, in anything worthwhile is an open question that will be answered by others, but it definitely did a lot for my confidence. I don’t know exactly how to articulate this. It wasn’t so much a confidence in my ability to be an interesting photographer as it was a confidence that came from a comfort level I found within. The world is an interesting place. It has plenty of little niches that haven’t been explored, or at least not in any kind of compelling fashion. I found that I can see into some of those unexplored niches. I found that I can communicate something of what I see in a fairly sophisticated narrative manner. Once I was comfortable at that level, I wanted to learn what others had been doing since the cold war.
Back to Marcin’s issues with Magnum: had I not gone through that oft-painful process, I’m not sure I could have handled looking at David’s work, Magnum stuff, or the work of any of the other contemporary greats. And never mind the living legends. I wouldn’t have been able to look at the work of you all or David’s workshop students without realizing my own work was horribly inadequate. It would have been depressing. I would have just slunk off and took my medicine. But now I can handle it. I have the callouses one gets from hard, repetitive labor. From having built things.
That’s why I think Charles’s advice that Marcin put away the books for awhile is spot on. If you don’t develop callouses first, those books can cause blisters.
Yet somehow I get the feeling Marcin’s not going to put away the books and quit looking at contemporary photography. And perhaps those books are an inextricable part of his path. It’s something he needs to figure out. I don’t think anything any of us can say will ultimately be of much help.
Yes, the list of significant members of your government who were on that plane is long. Such a tragedy. A loss not just for Poland but for the world.
Patricia
It will be a tragic loss to the families. For Poland I am not so sure…
I’m with John Vink on this, very sorry for the families.. not sure, but I don’t think Poland has the same presidentcult the US has.
Btw, thanks for the ‘Inside’ linke, ordered (if one can say so, paying only the postage!!) it, I guess we pay the postage when they bring the magazine? I didn’t get any invoice or such..
ALL
Forgive me quick answer for the topic.
For sure the Burn audience is able to change my point of view. I like learn and I learned this time. I have to agree with many opposite arguments, and I found many agreements myself.
But my considerations at the beginning of this discussion do not include my own work. I was thinking generally. But we live in small universes, so nothing can be taken generally.
Well, for sure I have to confess that my essay for EPF is very personal and very local, not in subject there is no subject but in impression. (now I see even too much, I am not sure is was good selection but I will not change it)
This essay is nothing more than impression.
No travels, India and Africa indeed.
And also a book I am working on now have working title “Looking-glass”.
very local and very personal.
http://marcinluczkowski.com/photonews/0222.jpg
Now the question have to be ask, is there some hypocrisy in my advice to my students?
John, Eva,
I didn’t feel to much sympathy to our president also to his brother, but in this plane was so many great people. Some great minds. Foe sure there will be a lost. especially for the political debate.
Now the question have to be ask, is there some hypocrisy in my advice to my students?
—————————————-
what was the advice?
Panos:
” marcin luczkowski
April 9, 2010 at 4:08 am
MARK,
“I have the impression that you might be putting too much emphasis on Magnum and what Magnum
photographers are doing.”
For sure I am :)
But isn’t’ the Magnum agency is some kind of reference point for documentary photography? The standards?
So many different views of life on this planet.
ALL
It is not mean that I am not respect local document. It is not mean that I think you have to leave your home to make a good essay.
But firstly dissuasion with David was about “what do you will advice to young photographer, stay home or travel the world”.
His advice, was stay home.
My advice, travel the world.
But also David have his students and I have mine. And this is what I say to all my students who want make career in documentary “challenge the world”.
And I am sure nobody will take advantage.
And also I think there will be no difference, stay home or travel, you always can do personal photography.
It is depends on your talent and intellect.
And when you stay home and you do your first great, successful personal story it will be time when you will have to choose again- stay or leave, for a new story.
thats what I think and will advice.”
“Travel the world but not necessarily with your passport”…and never forget that “you” are also “world”.
that would be my advice
JORGE..
i am the one confused….i arrive in Madrid on the 18th and i leave on the 25th…so, the opening must be the 23rd …friday evening…
Charles –
American SuburbX just posted on Tom Wood – http://www.americansuburbx.com/2010/04/theory-tom-wood-2000.html I just saw it now – I love synchronicity!
Marcin –
Shocking news about the plane crash. I was thinking about the intimacy in the shower series, and its brilliance, and how so much beauty transpired in one room..how you don’t even need to travel from your home. Now with the crash, it occurs to me you could do an intimate piece about people’s reactions to the loss. Just musing…
david_bacher –
once you start the EPF process, it is there for you, a place for text and also a place for captions if you want. it tells you the image size, i believe 800 longest, 72 but you will see…
ALL
I just had to turn down the invite to Review Santa Fe – a combo of timing and money – I’m curious if anyone here has ever attended as a participant? Your experience? Maybe I’ll apply to go next year…
MARCIN…
i love the photograph you just linked…
condolences to the families and friends of your countrymen killed…
ERICA…
i am sure you can imagine why i posted the Manj essay now…woman from India comes to nyc and photographs quite literally at home…
Question to whoever might respond: how do you decide if shooting in colour or black and white? And no, converting afterwards isn’t an option, as I shoot with a different mindset for one or the other.. argh.. choices.. decisions..
EVA…
for my current project on families, i have both b&w and color film in the bag…i reach in and take out whatever is there…random…..eliminates the decision making process
DAVID
yes, I forgot to write that bit (am on first cup o caffeine) but as soon as I opened the essay I knew of your wonderful machinations to wind dialogue and essay into a ribbon of teaching! well done :)
Also, any input on me missing out on review santa Fe? i would have been going with dark light…perhaps with your help I can still reach publishers when ready if this is still something you are open to doing – and I know there was talk of a burn imprint as well…
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
i was the same as a young photographer…looked and looked at work and then did not look for very long periods of time and just went to work….same now…when i am conceiving a project and shooting i pay no attention to what anyone else is doing….
DAVID.. there you go, now I have an option more to choose from: picking at random.. would never have thought of that.. pondering..
“Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live.”
Norman Cousins (American Essayist and Editor, long associated with the Saturday Review. 1912-1990
“Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.”
Epicurus (Greek philosopher, BC 341-270)
The Clash – Should I stay or should I go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ag8J2NMYmc
Should I stay or should I travel???
Should I take pictures or should I let it go???
Should I BURN or should I be BURNED ???
oblidi-oblada…VIVA BURN
VIVA DAH
I lost my pogo
but I found ya
nananan
I have to admit that I am one of a heck…sciolist…
all this time …I was believing that RIP = rip off
thanks PANOS
Time for shower…oime…I smell like a lamp, I look like a lamp…
I am a BURNIAN :)))
EVA..
of course i never thought of that before either…not before this project…i always anguished over color or b&w…but why? for this particular subject, which will loosely resemble a family album, it seemed like the perfect time to mix color with b&w since most family snapshot albums are indeed both…i had been looking for a good excuse to mix both for awhile…i will take a picture of the Madrid exhibit for you which includes the mix…only 15 large prints.. 44inches by 32….but, it will give you an idea and me an idea of how this is working…or not
by making the big prints for this show, i already have decided never to print a couple of them again…once i saw them large, they lost their power for me..others gained strength when i saw them printed…i had heretofore only perused contact sheets….all part of the process of a work in progress
cheers, david
Hi all.
Following up “words of advice” for young photographers:
I find myself in a similar situation (…rebooting photography). Now I’m looking at the work of contemporary photographers to fill in a gap of 10 / 12 years apart. It’s much easier to catch up nowadays. And I think you CAN “punch” your ego again & again while looking. Will you go on? Will I?
About shooting, I set some trials to re-start shooting. baby steps, really. Still struggling with concepts. Catching up. Too many doubts. One thing though – It does somehow (and against all odds) feels right. work will be absolute crap in a few weeks…evolving?…..
CIVI…
thanks for bringing back The Clash….well, the answer is obvious isn’t it? when you come to a fork in the road, take it…
ERICA,
I told myself “NO NEW PHOTO BOOKS!” but I may have to break that vow and pick up Tom Wood’s “Photie Man” retro on Steidl. Some of his others are a bit too dear for me being out of print I guess. One of my all time fave books is Billingham’s “Rays A Laugh.”
And for the record I actually did break my photo book diet yesterday and finally ordered “Divided Soul.” I feel embarrassed it’s not on my book shelf. Now I just need DAH to visit and sign. :)
CP
MARCIN,
Just catching up on the days news. I’m sorry for your country’s loss.
CP
Moving back…
Marcin:
”
His advice, was stay home.
My advice, travel the world
”
At home one can be probably too much aware or influenced by tacit “rules” or concepts …. travelling will probably allow a fresh approach. maybe one has to decide what he /she needs to go on…
David:
Ok, I’ll be waiting. I guess it must be on 23th.
Cheers
Jorge
Yea, it was definitely time for me to start paying attention to others. Your gentle push in that direction, David, was a big help. Thanks. I’ll write something about it one day soon. But I doubt I’ll ever be as into photo books as so many of you are. I find I’m more prone to study a few artists deeply rather than casually browse a lot of different works. Same with literature and music. And I rarely find I want to be like someone else. Sometimes I often try to figure out the technique someone used in a particular shot, but not to shoot the same thing. Mainly I just like being entertained. Or learning something. Or both.
Charles mentioned out of print books being dear. Yea, I’m starting to notice that. I’m getting the impression photo books might be a better investment than stocks. The $350 that freaked me out so badly for that Davidson book on east 110th was probably a bargain. No, no, don’t get me started on that — the reality that some of the greatest living artists with the most acute social consciousnesses distribute their work in such a way that only the very wealthiest people in this world have easy access to it. Best not to go there, not today.
http://whenyourestrangemovie.com/?page_id=1002
DAVID.. looking forward to see the Madrid picture and hear about your impressions.. I wasn’t very keen on mixing colour and bw, still am not within an essay seen on screen, but I’ve seen an exhibition a while back, with not only mixed colour and bw, but also mixed formats, and it worked. Wouldn’t have thought it would work so well!
Charles, ‘book diet’ is a very very bad term, yikes ;)
MICHAEL WEBSTER
please know that Bruce Davidson is not distributing his work for the wealthy…the price for rare out of print books is certainly not set by the photographer…anything “one of a kind” or “rare” is always going to have a premium price attached to it….but, even at the $350. price for the Davidson book, Bruce would receive $175. from the seller if it was his copy and sold through a gallery or nothing if sold by an individual….surely Bruce is not wringing his hands with joy every time he gets 175 bucks tops for his masterwork which is about what he would receive for a stock picture used in an obscure textbook… please know of course the work of Bruce can easily be viewed by all regardless of income range right here on the net and was distributed at the time to a mass audience in many magazines at the cost of the magazine…the elitism for distribution is the controversy of course with limited edition prints and your point certainly does have validity in the minds of many journalistic photographers…HCB never did limited editions precisely for this reason of making his work theoretically available to all..nevertheless now his print prices are still way out of price range for the average person…again, price set by the market , not by HCB..
still Michael being socially conscious should not prevent photographers from earning at least a decent living…nobody would question the rights of other socially conscious people from their incomes…teachers, preachers, doctors etc etc…any photographer who makes any kind of “mark” will have their work valued high at some point by various segments of certain markets….just as fine pottery, paintings, sculpture etc….photography is actually one of the few mediums that can actually have an impact on anyone of any income level…the picture itself and the message therein is usually viewed and digested for free….
cheers, david
EVA…
the best rule is no rule….
EVA,
Yes it is! But it’s not even the cost, or even finding the time to look at them, but where to put them! Never enough room, never enough room…
CP
So, DAVID,
I take it that you are not heading off to Rio imminently to chase the flood story…? No?
And.. you did not succumb to impulse buying and pick up an iPad, but are waiting for the 3g model, right?
SIDNEY…
i decided almost immediately not to go to Rio….several reasons…first, i have a long haul to go in Rio and this would have totally messed with my momentum for the final push for the work most important to me…second, my friends in Rio who were on the scene told me of the no-access from officials…third, one of my friends Eduardo Rubiano was on the scene and this would be a good chance for him to get a picture in NG if he could somehow get in..fourth, i am not and never was much of a news hound…..doesn’t drive me…i value the work of the news photographers and my heart went out to the victims, but i have always preferred documenting the effects of “news” rather than the news events themselves…had i been on the scene , of course i am totally capable of the “scramble”…and maybe fifth, a very expensive trip to be sure…this would have cost me at least 6k ….perhaps worth it IF i could have done something with this work after, but i just did not see it….as far as reporting to the world the nature of this immense tragedy, i think others are doing the job just fine and fingers crossed that Eduardo can have his day…
the iPad was impressive…yes, i would wait for the 3G….i cannot imagine any photographer not wanting an iPad if for no other reason than showing your work to potential clients etc etc…just a very nice way to have your work and the work of others with you at all times…and for all the hyped reasons as well…for me personally it would replace the laptop for many things…i could not resist of course pulling up Burn on the iPad…nice…could not play the slide shows of course, but that will come….we will have to create Burn on a different platform because flash will never be a part of Apple, but this is a small technicality for the long haul….many have said that they see no diff between using a laptop and the iPad…i can tell you it is a different experience…you are holding it…feeling it….the bridge between print and net viewing…tactile compared to anything we have now electronic…palpable…
cheers, david
DAH, BOB, WHOEVER,
I have a submission technical question. I have a LR slideshow I want to submit with music but can’t figure out the best way to show it to the powers that be. I have converted it into a movie file of about 37mb and need to know the best way to send. I have the images themselves up as a hidden website but would like it to be seen initially with the music and fades and I don’t know how to host with a link on my server. I can send via yousendit for download but that is only good for a week (you need to download it in that time frame). Essay will be written on Monday and it will be good to go with captions, music, etc.
Pls advise.
Best,
CP
Ha, see? Should have taken my own advice and not gone there. I don’t really know enough about it to comment seriously. Certainly didn’t mean it as a knock against Davidson or the photographer I actually had in mind. Just questioning the system. And I honestly don’t have a preconceived answer, though you can see the general direction my questioning takes. Maybe I’ve missed it, but I have been unable to find high quality files on the internet from any top photographer. All I see are little 4 x 6’s with copyright stamps all over them. All evidence I’ve seen indicates they guard their images jealously. I trust that’s wise, but I ask myself these questions because normal people don’t see those images. Even if they’ve got the $$$ for the book, it takes quite a bit of effort and a certain level of cultural knowledge to see that kind of work.
If I did go there, I’d ask questions from other angles too. Does it actually matter how far great photographs penetrate the cultural noise. Would the world be a better place if they taught East 110th Street, or Otras Americas, or Divided Soul in high school like they do Catcher in the Rye or Animal Farm? That’s probably where I’d start.
ok, so, y’all said the clash…
so, something from Marley via one of my heros, Strummer…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F10tP5HIpaA
or, maybe this:
First, I wonder why Flash will never be a part of Apple in regards to iPad? Not only my desktop but my current laptop are both Apple Mac’s and both run Flash. It seems to me that by not allowing iPad to run Flash, Apple is right there insuring that they will never gain a good many otherwise potential customers.
Michael – I do hope to return to NY before too much more time passes. I will let you know when.
Now a question to all: Pretty soon, I plan to revamp my blog with a new bloghost that is not so troublesome as Squarespace, but even before I do, I need to set up a store to sell prints and such. If anyone has any recommendations as to what online service I could use to make and sell the prints, I would appreciate the info.
Thanks
Sidney :))))
ok, brother, i sort of hear you and sort of don’t get you ;)))), though I love you none-the-less…
Chatwin’s song is not at all an anthropological trieste at all, and like all great expressions of breathe, not immune from criticism. In fact, “Songlines” of course has taken a beating by academics and anthropologists for a long time all the while missing it’s essential truth: which, as you correctly point out, is it’s poetic play, it’s poetic reach for subterfuge and for a spiritual and historical walkabout. Remember, the essence of an aboriginal songlines is NOT about verisimilitude but about the naming of the land by the patterns of flora and fauna and song: the counting of steps as a map of the world around, including the variation of song, broken over the original skeleton of the land’s tune…in other words, chatwin is not trying to either justify one understanding of the world over another, nor even the essential goodness of flight, but something simpler: the patterns of chanting and being engaged with the songs the land and our bodies tell….an imperfect book, of course…but there is an important essence there that I, personally, wish more understand, which is this:
TRAVEL is NOT about place or movement so much as EXPLORATION….travel doesnt have to mean the movement toward place or country, but something simpler, more fundamental: exploration….
explorations can take place in the examination of a new place, of a new spirit, of a small bathroom shower, of a memory, of the landscape of the world….a songline is an understanding that what we navigate as travel is really about an internal source, a movement, a naming of things that sometimes appear on the horizon and across the landscape (passport boarders) or may in fact be about the lines that carve out a very simple and specific memory…..
i aint buying your logic, cause academizing a song aint the same thing as whittling away at that very basic truth, and it’s there in heroditus and it’s there in a child’s memory of a dittie and it’s there in the carve of Lady Genji and it’s there in the way a person bellows and bends….
your beautiful face, your beautiful beard peering over the hills that ring the green of your window’d vision…
a recounting…:)))
hope that makes sense….sort of…
Natasha’s Dance, yes? ;))))
hugs
bob
MICHAEL WEBSTER
you bring up all good points…certainly worth discussion…you are quite correct when you mention that most of the best work is going to be seen on a photographer’s website in smaller size…at least that is the way it was…most have given way to larger sizing recently realizing that theft (which was the only reason for small sizing) is inevitable no matter what…making ones imagery available is one thing, having it stolen and sold, even as prints, by a third party is quite another…hence watermarks etc…not exactly sure who your “normal people” are (i do not know any), but certainly the mass audiences were at least viewers of the work at original inception…in magazines mostly..but, let’s take Chris Anderson’s Captilio for example….seen for free as a MIM by a mass audience..right? however, for the discerning viewer there is the book, which is priced beyond mass audience levels yet still reaches thousands…or you can buy a print for an even higher price which only the wealthy can afford…still, the “message” of Capitolio can be seen for free in the best technical possible way at the moment online..how else could Captitolio be distributed fairly??
by the way, all those books you mentioned and many more as well are part of some high school and college curricula…mostly of course in art and visual communication classes, but at least some form of serious study…it may be a long time before our language is spoken by the wider student community….however , i am often invited to address entire student bodies with students from all academic areas…i like this the best….everyone seems interested by the magic of photography…probably because you cannot think of one single subject where some form of photography could not be applied….but let’s face it…pretty simple..who doesn’t enjoy taking pictures and who doesn’t think that at some point they can make really nice pictures? even the ones to are not actively photographers find themselves often surprised when they start thinking of photography as a real tool and art…particularly if they had never looked at it that way before….we may be surprised to find ourselves one day as a liberal arts class…and someone from that class might just make more than “nice pictures”….a few, a very few, could emerge with a strong voice…
cheers, david
Speaking of the Clash/Strummer, anybody seen the 1987 film “Walker”, for Strummer did the music? Check it out! It kind of reminds me of a Marquez novel (which is certainly helped by the soundtrack).
Capitolio is a beautiful book, by the way. It almost demands to be looked at twice. Once at the fast pace set by the filmic editing, and again more slowly, letting the multiple threads shine through. Love it…
DEAREST BOB,
I don’t regret that you apparently misunderstood me (???) since it gave you an excuse to launch forth on another of your inimitable and eloquent reveries… far more poetic and entertaining than my dry ‘academicizing’ ever will be!
I was merely taking exception to this quoted statement: “As a general rule of biology, migratory species are less ‘aggressive’ than sedentary ones…” and the implication that this had some kind of relevance to the behavior of human groups who were or are nomadic or migratory. I had hoped that my great appreciation for Bruce Chatwin and what he did with “Songlines” was clear enough. ‘Nuff said.
Talking of the clash, I was with mick the other night when his rock and roll library pitched up at chelsea arts college for a week. He’s an amazing hoarder and has just about every item he has ever come across in a big warehouse. tour posters, albums, vhs tapes, all sorts of clutter..pretty amazing really.
Although this citation is taken from context, while reading, this reminded me of home /travel issue.
“Should the poet write revolutionary hymns at home or mount the barricade in person? In photography,
there is no geographic escape from the conflict. The photographer must be present where the action is.”
Rudolf Arnheim Nature, of Photography 1974.
from the word “conflict” I understand concept or idea – so one should move and meet their own conflict. around the world, or the at the next corner… The question is to fin it…
ups.. find it…
FROSTFROG…
Adobe Flash will never be a part of Apple no matter how much biz is hypothetically lost…why? for the same reason countries often go to war, empires are toppled, and civilizations dominated….super ego clash….
Sorry, I cannot resist posting this one too (last one ;)):
“I referred to still another way in which photographers of our time
have exploited the artificiality of their medium. Not by accident perhaps,
it is often in documentary reportage that we see persons acknowledging
the presence of the photographer, either by displaying themselves for
him cheerfully or ceremoniously, or by watching him with suspicious
attention. What we seem to be shown here is man and woman after they
have eaten from the tree of knowledge. “And the eyes of them both were
opened,” says the Book of Genesis, “and they knew that they were
naked.” This is man under observation, in need of apersona, concerned
with his image, exposed to danger or to the prospect of great fortune by
simply being looked at.”
Rudolf Arnheim, Nature of Photography, 1974.
——————-
By the way, if “Adobe Flash will never be a part of Apple” , what will it do considering the “threat” of MS silverlight??
Brother sidney :))))…
got you, totally….it’s another example of the poet in Chatwin (im me too ;) ) that poet’s tend to over-arch ideas and reach for the stars in their generalizations ;))))….but, i actually agree with him, generally, that those who are migratory in nature (in other words, those who seek to travel internally, as one does as well with meditation, for example) tend not to care for aggression…Buddha’s migration involved sitting beneath a tree ;))….ok, got you :))))…still love your academic reveries as well, the former academic in me too :))…hugs
Gaddy: cool…
for you:
and Gaddy…
one of my favorite young bands….noise noise noise but so damn literate and energized…
sniff around
Titus Andronicus:
https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/comment-page-19/#comment-66485
from their brilliant new (second album)…about the civil war…or well, about now…
Frost..
DAH is correct…its a licencing war between apple and adobe…it started way before the iphone launch…pure
politics
http://wccftech.com/2010/04/10/golden-words-screw-apple-2/
“Adobe’s Flash software is behind countless bits of multimedia all over the Web. But since the iPhone went on sale in 2007, Apple has not allowed Flash onto the device, essentially shutting Adobe out of the creative process behind building applications for the iPhone OS. In response, Adobe has been working feverishly to build a feature into its Flash authoring platform that will give developers the ability to output applications in a format that will work on the iPhone and iPad. The new developer agreement is likely to put a stop to that.
Adobe plans to introduce the new software, Creative Suite 5, next week at its annual developers conference.
Apple’s bold move will likely cause major headaches for Adobe, as the Creative Suite software is a staple of its business.”
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/a-change-at-apple-causes-trouble-for-adobe/
“There’s no Flash on the iPhone, Jobs said, because Flash is riddled with bugs. “Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash,” Jobs said. Adobe’s chief technology officer Kevin Lynch fired back: “We don’t ship Flash with any known crash bugs.”
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/09/microsoft_adobe_silverlight_flash_air/
From D’Agata:
I try to distance myself from a certain type of documentary photography that often avails itself of symbols that are too easy to read and assimilate in order to present a complex reality in a balance that is endlessly discussed over and over between photography as an instrument of documentation and photography as being completely subjective. It isn’t the eye that photography poses on the world that interests me but its most intimate rapport with that world.
PANOS…
great…i just saw for the first time D’Agata work on the Palestinians…blew me away
DAH, EVERYONE,
Did some driving in the car today which gave me time to think of yet another aspect of the near/far/exotic/mundane conversation we’ve been enjoying here.
Patricia’s great point yesterday about the possibility of going long distances to photograph “the mundane” led me to thinking…WHO IS TO SAY WHAT EXOTIC IS? Seriously.
I had this realization in India…I was sitting in the dirt hanging out with Yermala the Leper who is the Father of my Dog Anbu. I had just come from an internet cafe where I read about a 20-something reality show actress (Heidi Montag) who had 10 cosmetic surgery procedures in one day. I then realized that for me INDIA IS NORMAL, AMERICA IS EXOTIC! What could possibly be stranger than life in the West?
I can spend time with Naked ash covered Naga Babas who smoke hash all day and feel like I am right at home (as long as they don’t blow too much smoke in my face) but if you send me next door (here in California) to photograph my neighbor the hairdresser and her football playing son…they seem “foreign” to me.
Just thought I’d add that to the mix.
Have a good weekend everyone. :)
DAH: Antoine’s pictures went through some very heavy postproduction. Should be known.
I’d love to see the corporate bloodbath if Adobe had the balls to hold back next weeks release
of CS5 for Mac and launch PC only.
It is interesting how bathrooms seem to be a great place to make photographs. I shot this this morning before viewing Manjaris’ amazing work. http://www.pbase.com/image/123489988
Cathy
Exotic seems to be anywhere where we are not. Marcin wants to get out’a Dodge, Poland and the whole former Eastern bloc seems pretty exotic to me.
I’ve very little desire to travel, and when I do, except for tourist snaps, I have little interest in trying to make serious photographs. I’m much more interested in photographing my own life and those close to me.
Bangkok?
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/04/11/world/20100411THAILAND2_index.html
Or Agnes Dherbeys loud and clear…
DAH: Antoine’s pictures went through some very heavy postproduction. Should be known.
——————————————-
John…is this a Bad? or a Good thing? or is it beyond good or bad? or maybe irrelavant?
i just wonder why u mention it.thats all..:)
More about Bankok here, I don’t know enough myself to have an opinion about it, but seems that people are being used..:
http://pistolesiphoto.blogspot.com/2010/04/and-blood-came.html
Also, interesting quote there, about the travel/home thing:
“Travel is at its most rewarding when it ceases to be about your reaching a destination and becomes indistinguishable from living your life. (Paul Theroux)”
Not bad or good. People are free to do what they want. I mention it because I think it just should be known there was heavy postproduction with that kind of pictures. It avoids confusion (certainly x me), clarifies things, when, despite the fact that he, as you quote, “wants to distance himself from a certain type of photography that often avails itself of symbols that are too easy to read”, he uses those very same symbols (fearfull faces, crouching people during demos) in his pictures.
But then I am not very subtle in these matters…
I’m dizzy. So much reading to catch up with.
Setting up a submission in Slideshow and looking for a limit to number of submissions. I have one loaded and thought another could be added but if can I no can. Is it that you submit one at a time?
I thought it is about time to update. If you’re around South Wales, or Cardiff-Swansea-Newport-Bristol area, pop by our Third Floor Gallery in Cardiff ( http://www.thirdfloorgallery.com ). Our current show is the premiere of Muse by Jocelyn Bain Hogg, and the two shows we’ve had have also been premieres… LoveUK by Peter Dench and Up West by David Solomons. If you’re interested, also check us out on twitter or facebook. We’ve managed to pay the next three months of lease fully by donations, so you might be interested in contributing too :-)
JOHN VINK..
yes, i know….but, any more than Paolo?
CATHY…
smiling…the revelation!! good
Erica,
“Now with the crash, it occurs to me you could do an intimate piece about people’s reactions to the loss. Just musing…”
I try do take some pictures yesterday but it was too early. It it hard to say that there was a strong reaction i could see in people, but when was main gathering in my city I was cover a wedding so no time for history :/
Now selection so no time even now.
Gordon, terrific shot of Martha at the BR door and your bare feet while in the tub. You’ve got a wonderful series of you and Martha going! Can’t get closer to home than that…
Patricia
I finished my shower…
I found the fork (???) and I am ready for a new adventurous…
Bravo JKARANKA…three months covered…Bravo again!!!
Hey BURNIANS,how our BURN home is doing ??? I haven’t submit any donations lately…
well,my spreads are too high …but at least I got bread and ouzo and so many friends…
and I keep you Greek home in good, tactile condition.
http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
JONI KARANKA
kudos to you my friend…i have been keeping up with your space and efforts and am quite impressed…and a big fan of Jocelyn Bain Hogg as well…
IMANTS…
welcome back…have not seen you online to skype and was getting worried about you…all good health etc etc???
cheers, david
waving not drowning………… http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm …….. drifting around out the middle of nowhere …….. found some internet, catcha
DAH: I think so yes.
Anton and i working hard on print edition of Burn…overwhelmed might be a better term….we have so so so much content to choose from…way more than we can possibly use in one print edition….we remarked today that with the amount of content that comes to us we could surely publish a monthly or quarterly print magazine IF we had an army of helpers which we do not…
so, the print edition of Burn will surely be quite strong, but also surely not all inclusive…i think we have published around 175 essays…that is approximately 3,500 pictures not counting the singles…to make this viable we will have to choose probably 10-15 essays out of the 175 and then take some singles from essays combined with single entries to make up a powerful 160 page edition…with the photographer’s permission if course….the print edition will be its own animal…not a catalog of what has been shown here online…
JOHN VINK..
well that consistent monochromatic almost sepia look to it i figured surely came from post process
DAH,
Oh man I don’t envy you and Anton that job! I’m sure there’s the obvious few that jump out at you but then after that… whew what a slog. Looking forward to it though. There’s been such great work published here since it’s inception. It will be cool to see the best of the best all in one place and bring back fond memories of seeing it for the first time and the various discussions that ensued.
BTW figured out the solution to my problem – Slideshow Pro for LR.
Okay, off to the playground!
CP
saw an exhibition of malick sidibe prints yesterday. Big 60×40 hand made wet prints, right down to 10×8’s.
fantastic.
FROM JAMES ESTRIN:
On behalf of the New York Times photography blog Lens , I would like to invite you to join us in a project called A Moment in Time. Thousands of photographers of all experience levels will be capturing the same moment on Sunday, May 2nd at 15:00 U.T.C. That’s 8 a.m. in Los Angeles, 11 a.m. in New York City and Santo Domingo, 4 p.m. in Algiers and London, 7 p.m. in Moscow and 11 p.m. in Beijing.
This is the first step in trying to connect photographers around the world. Everyone is encouraged to participate.
We are asking participants to think about where they want to be and what they will focus on. Consider how to represent yourself, and your community, with one image.
To help stimulate ideas and to act as guides, we are suggesting the following categories for images:
· Religion
· Play
· Nature and the Environment
· Family
· Work
· Arts and Entertainment
· Money and the Economy
· Community
· Social Issues
Photos should be no larger than 5 MB, ideally 1000 pixels wide or more. In keeping with photojournalistic standards, please keep Photoshopping to a minimum.
After you take your photos, submit your best image as soon as possible to http://submit.nytimes.com/moment. The link will go live that morning, directing you to a Web form. You will be asked to categorize your photos by location and subject, and to include a caption that helps tell the story.
Photos will quickly appear on the Lens Blog and The New York Times Web site. Your photo will be displayed in our A Moment in Time display, and may also be spotlighted in a Lens post. Please feel free to contact me with any comments or suggestions.
Check the Lens Blog for more information about A Moment in Time . You can also find us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/nytimesphoto?ref=ts&v=wall > or Twitter (@nytimesphoto ) for updates. To join our official Facebook event invite, click here .
A Moment in Time is open to everyone. The project will be greatly enriched with your help. Please spread the word far and wide.
Thank you in advance.
Sincerely,
James Estrin
Lens Blog Co-Editor
Senior Staff Photographer
NEW YORK TIMES
620 Eighth Avenue, New York, NY 10018
estrin@nytimes.com
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/
Patricia
Thanks for looking.
How’s the project coming along?
PLEASE WATCH THIS IMMEDIATELY
http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1271013825692RA86
VERY IMPORTANT
Fuck me, Panos this is great! ha ha ha
I can’t stop laugh… You make my evening :)
cmon panos. Its neat, but its been doing the rounds for months. catch up dude.
sorry
hahaha, I like it. It is great.
@David: I’m impressed as well, not sure if more impressed with all the photographers we’re collaborating with or with having installed a new distributed 500w reflector system for a total cost of £52.50 including cabling and remote control… but yeah, it’s a bit like a minor version of transforming water into wine!
Regarding the Apple/Adobe kerfuffle, I agree 100 percent with Apple’s approach and hope, for all of us, that they prevail. I want computers that display graphics really fast and don’t crash. Tight integration of OS and applications is the only way to achieve that. Tight control of the code that runs applications is the only way it can work. Jobs is right and, I think, for the right reasons. I’ve followed his thinking for a long, long time and he has always put user experience first, believing that profit will inevitably flow from getting that right. Thankfully, it looks like Apple finally has some power to influence the industry. That is a good thing, imo.
You know, I don’t usually do the youtube thing, but as a result of the self-indulgence discussion here I put together a slideshow of my own work to illustrate that theme, which wasn’t particularly difficult, and that resulted in my looking for music to accompany it, so I figured, who best to illustrate self-indulgence, and I know, I know, rock&roll provides all too many examples, but still, who better than Johnny Thunders and what better song than Lonely Planet Boy? But to the point, while doing that work I came across this song, which I think at least some of you might enjoy (if you can ignore, or at least pity, the misogyny).
David, regarding my comments about the difficulty, for most people, of seeing top photographer’s work, please know that I am never in any way questioning the motives or morals of you or Bruce Davidson or anyone else. I explicitly trust you and the others’ work speaks well for them, as does yours for you. But I know I’m not alone in asking questions about how the system works and seeking to come up with answers about how it could work better. I think most of us agree that it would be beneficial for everyone if more people saw and appreciated great still photography. Works such as Otras Americas, East 110th Street and Living Proof really should be taught in schools just as they teach Animal Farm and Things Fall Apart. And not just in art classes, but in social studies, history, and even literature. They bear that same kind of analysis.
You know, that’s probably a job someone could create for themselves. Start a foundation to bring a photo curriculum to the schools. Develop some lesson plans. Set up teacher training. I’ll bet grant money is there for that kind of thing.
stillouta “ere http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
John G
Goodness, where have I been?
I don’t know John cause I got lost myself. We need a new topic.
Erica, submitted an essay–just this afternoon. It was not hard but you have to pay attention to detail. It was a good process. Four days left to submit Burnians.
Patricia, thanks for that link to NYTimes moment in time. I have the information. Will be fun to participate; hopefully I will submit.
DAH, looking forward to print edition of Burn Magazine–seeing what essays and photos come together.
It’s been a long time since I’ve visited burn. Life has seemed to made me busier than I have been in years. My day job is growing in intensity and uncertainty. We are working at a hectic pace, trying to stave off department cuts, but knowing that increased productivity will be irrelevant when the time comes. At the same time, trying to finalize my submission to the EPF, voluntarily ending a relationship with one client and grooming a potential whale of another client, and trying to work in an hour or two each week for relaxation. In short, I always seem to be juggling chain saws.
But just when you’re feeling like collapsing under the weight of life, inspiration hits. I was photographing a roller derby event for a friend last night. There was no pay involved, but I was toying with the idea of doing a photo story on the derby team, and it also gave me the opportunity to be around 20 women in fishnet stockings and shorts, so what the hell. During half time of the meet, I saw the Isiserettes, a drill and drum corps, consisting of kids ranging from seven to 18, performing. A portion of the proceeds from the evening was going towards them.
I was talking to the lead instructor after the performance, and they were recently kicked out of their long-time home, and the groups very existence is in jeopardy. An organization that has existed for 30 years in Des Moines, working to keep kids off the streets and to teach life skills might be gone. It seems strange, but I have to tell their story. I’ve always had an activist streak in me. It’s what got my into photojournalism in the first place; a semi-naive belief that I could make things change. That seemed to have faded from me over the past couple of years, but in an instant, it was back.
I need to tell the story, whether it’s to mark their passing, or better yet, to bring attention to their needs. The instructor loved the idea of having me do a story, so all things seem to be a go. I’m throwing another chain saw into the air.
I bet this is the most I’ve ever written here, and I know it’s wandering, rambling mess. I just wanted to drop in and say hello to everyone again, and share the joy that newfound inspiration can bring.
Okay, time for a little more dry academicism…
Just watched two visually mesmerizing films back to back, and was fascinated by their contrasts. Both are Asian, both are set in painstakingly-recreated imagined historical milieus, both have very minimal dialogue and story lines, and casts of multiple nationalities… both the films are as much about the physical environments they are shot in as they are about the characters… but there the similarities end, and the ways in which they are photographed and the ways in which they tell their separate stories are completely, utterly different.
One film is Segei Bodrov’s “Mongol”, a comparatively low-budget epic about the early life of Genghis Khan, set in 12th century Mongolia, and the other is Lou Ye’s “Purple Butterfly”, a noir espionage thriller set in 1930s Shanghai. “Mongol” is filled with stunning, seemingly endless, panoramas of Central Asian landscapes in sharp focus and nearly infinite depth of field, and the story is a more or less straight linear narrative with only one major flashback at the beginning. “Purple Butterfly,” though it begins linearly, soon becomes far less so, there is even less dialogue than in “Mongol,” and the murky, steamy, rain-swept streets, alleys, and shabby rooms of Shanghai are shot in a hand-held, nervous, moody, shallow-depth-of-field, smokey-soft-focus, claustrophobic style that is largely atmosphere and very little substance, a whole dimension of moody impressionism beyond anything by Wong Kar-wei. The characters in “Mongol” are very clear-cut, well-defined people. Life is dangerous and violent, but totally understandable in simple terms. Life is just as dangerous and violent in “Purple Butterfly,” but the characters are elusive, complicated, shape-shifting, nothing is clear about them or their motives, even to the characters themselves it seems. Very little is ever made explicit, yet the subtly rich textures of the film convey a universe of ambiguous nuances.
I had seen both these films before, but never back to back, and since I know ‘what happens’, I could watch them this time as exercises in visual story-telling. Both films are filled with truly gorgeous (if also often very sinister) images in a photographic sense… you could pull hundreds, maybe thousands, of stunning still images off the reels. If you haven’t seen either of these films, do yourself a favor and watch them, together if possible! (I found the DVDs in the local public library).
Cheers,
The new generation of heroes is coming!
http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1270997072424RA74
The new X-men… I mean F8-men
Marcin,
so true!
(In response to Sidney’s last post…)
Eric Valli’s “Himalaya” is an amazing film too…
And if you like epics and out of this world landscapes…
Yimou Zhang’s “Ying xiong” (aka “Hero”) will blow you away…
Himalaya..indeed..
ha ha..Thodoris u just brought back a memory from couple years ago at the kibbutz..
DAH Party was over..we had to sleep..on the floor…on plastic inflated mattresses..
my mattress was right next to Eric Valli’s mattress..we were separated by 10 empty
bottles of Stella Artois…i will never forget the smell of the open beer bottles
the following morning…
Panos, next time go for Duvel… Beats Stella Artois by several lengths…
PAnos: I should say Duvel is to Stella Artois what Stella Artois is to Heineken…
John…ha ha…
agreed…Duvel is the Real Deal…:))))
and how about Chimay? i know its also from Belgium but is it really made by monks?
Hi. Anyone who may recognize the problem I’m having with SKYPE please let me know as I’m IT illiterate and can’t work out the problem.
I’ve just downloaded new version of SKPE, have new set of audio headphones (cheapies admittedly) with a jack for in-line, and another for out-line, which have been plugged in to a mac G5. I’ve gone through preferences and set setting’s at mid volume for both in and out lines. But no matter how many hours I’ve frigged around with it, re setting the settings, getting new headphones, no matter what, I can’t get and out signal. So when I call SKYPE to check I’ve set it up correctly, I can hear, but I don’t get a response through the mic…
Driving me mad.. I’m just jinxed when it comes to doing anything on computers…
thanks guys..
I know this is simple for everyone else.
The Chimay Blonde is not dumb… And I guess there is a monk or two behind the computer
Sorry it is Chimay Triple… but she’s blonde…
Peter,
a mac has a line-in, but not a mic-in. The difference is, that you microphone does not have enough power to get the signal to the mac. If you had a USB microphone, the situation would work for you.
Actually, there are quite cheap USB handsets for Skype, which work pretty well. The usual headphone with microphone works good with PCs (they have a mic-in), but not with Macs.
You can’t compare lagers to ales to frickin trappist ales, that’s like comparing apples to oranges to
cherimoyas. They are entirely different things.
That sounds like an interesting study, Sidney, I’ll try to do that little exercise some day. I badly wanted to see Renoir’s The River yesterday, but stuff kept happening before the showtimes. I wanted to see it because it’s reportedly one of the greatest color films ever made and it’s set in India. All the talk here about India has made me curious. Anyone seen it?
new slideshow
new
new… (Family gathering on the mountain house)
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/SkoulikariaJpeg#slideshow/5459212162752971298
or click here….for proof sheet
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/SkoulikariaJpeg#
Brian Frank, interesting story, thanks. Nothing like that joy new found inspiration can bring. There’s been a lot of talk here lately questioning whether it’s necessary to travel to exotic places or live in big cities to find consistently interesting stories to photograph. Do you have any thoughts on that? I notice you travel to exotic climes and do great work in small town, or at least small city, America.
Michael –
I spent a couple weeks in Ghana, and wouldn’t trade that experience for the world, but I don’t think you HAVE to go to an exotic location for stories. There are lots of things that are exotic (by that, I mean things that are not a part of your normal scope of existence) in an area like Des Moines. You will have to look harder, but they are there.
The caveat to that, is that those things may not be interesting to those who live in bigger cities. Stories told from smaller cities and towns can be dismissed as quaint, and much more difficult to have people take notice. Over time, Des Moines will become harder and harder to find new, fresh stories. The well of ideas is greater in New York, but there’s a whole lot more people drawing from that well.
1,000
apologies for the drive-by non-sequitur … i actually understood some of this … may be of interest …
http://www.sfmoma.org/pages/research_projects_photography_over
somebody here came up with a supplier for an optical viewfinder for the GF1…mighta been Gordon or maybe Charles , but i am not sure….anyone know about one? i do not like particularly the electronic viewfinder for this camera..
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
good idea…want to be my new education minister??
Thanks Brian. I asked because I think you do a great job finding stories “out there.” Do you really have experience that suggests those who live in bigger cities find that kind of work quaint? I’m sure some do but would be surprised to find that attitude widespread. Of course I’m often unpleasantly surprised that way, so it wouldn’t be that much of a shock. Interesting question, or observation, about stories being harder to find in less populated locales over time. Makes sense, but I like to think that there will always be stories to tell as long as there are humans interacting with each other and their environment. Faulkner got quite a few stories out of Yoknapatawpha county, you know. Ha, bad example probably, but you know what I mean…
David, I’d love to, but it would have to pay the rent. However, if someone wants to take my idea and run with it, I’d be happy to serve on the board.
The word “quaint” was never spoken, but implied very strongly by an editor. Not so much of my work, but of where I was from. I have heard big-named photographers joke about how small/irrelevant Des Moines is. When photographers from bigger cities come through Iowa every four years for the caucuses, there is an image of a campaign sign in a snowy field.
DAH,
RE viewfinder. It wasn’t me but funny that you thought I would I know (because I do). I believe the GF-1 is about a 35mm equivalent. Go here and scroll down. http://cameraquest.com/voigtacc.htm
Take care,
CP
CHARLES….
many thanks…i believe the 40mm is what i want…i have the 1.7 20mm….so, doesn’t that translate to exactly 40 w the GF1??
by the way, the little GF1 is the best…and with the very best metering system i have ever seen on anything…put it on aperture preferred, and shoot away…cannot fool it…figures out exposures in all lighting situations you cannot believe…that combined with the super autofocus and well, i just cannot find anything wrong with this camera..and no no , i receive nothing from Panasonic..i do not know anyone at Panasonic…i receive cameras from Nikon and Leica and use both the 700 and M9, but i bought the GF1 and it is with me at all times…
TOM HYDE,
Thanks for that link to SFMOMA’s “Is Photography Over?” Roundtable… I can’t claim to have given it a very close or critical reading, but I did read through all of it quickly, and I would say there is a lot of food for thought there… there is also a lot of B.S., but I guess that comes with the territory. Many ideas and perspectives to consider. One thing that struck me was that most of these people are not actually working photographers but curators, professors, critics, gallery types, and ‘thinkers’… and they inhabit a universe that seems real to them but is different than that of most working photographers. Yes, there is some overlap, and the two different universes must try to communicate with each other… maybe an equally illuminating question would be not “is photography over?” but rather, “is the world these critics and curators and professors inhabit over?” (Or should it be?)
Anyway, I look forward to hearing your own reactions to that discussion, and I will go back and reread it when I have some more time (like, next week maybe?).
DAH,
Yeah, 40. I think 35 is about as close as you’ll get with a vf though. I’ll have to check the Panasonic out. Will have to sell some gear first. The M9 pretty much maxed me out. Of course the GF-2 will be even better. :)
Oh I see they make a 40. You’re good to go!
DAH/Charles, the 20mm on your GF1 is equivelent to a 40 on full frame, well, almost, since the aspect ratio is a bit more square on the 4/3 sensor. Charles, if you want a bright line frame finder for it, Cosina make a 40mm. Go to http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtacc.htm and scroll down.
Sidney, chuckling, yes all institutions have their own vocabulary and some more than others! I am no intellectual so I’ll leave interpretation to the individual. I did appreciate some of the thoughts regarding “silos” and the notion that photography has always been “dead,” or in crisis, since it is constantly being reborn, and some good self examination of that rarified museum/gallery world, etc. There were other nuggets interspersed worthy of thought and as grist. I agree with some, and with what David has said before, that it is not dead but an emerging language still in its infancy.
You especially might appreciate this by Paul Graham, titled The Unreasonable Apple, from his presentation to MoMA this year … http://www.paulgrahamarchive.com/writings_by.html
Okay, so insomnia does have its rewards I suppose, other than making me a little (more) crazy … best to you neighbor. I’m back to work ….
I should mention that these middle of the night rabbit holes I ran down today started with this thoughtful post from Bryan Formhals here … http://lapuravidagallery.com/blog/2010/03/oped-appreciating-straight-photography/
CHARLES…GORDON
yes, i saw the 40 finder…you can set the aspect ratio however you want ..either squarish 4/3 or 35mm aspect ..of course this 35 is a crop…but not much…
YOUNG TOM..
we do not see you much here anymore…missing you amigo
What’s the story behind DAH being the Hero of the world?
We all know it’s true but why/how did they make a film about it?
I guess I missed this while I was away. :)
saying hi, sending a postcard….
http://www.slowemotion.it/pics/postcard01.jpg
ALEX WEBB
has produced a beautiful music video to a ( Moby ) song that he has entered into a contest that could result in the video becoming the “official” music video for this Moby song.
It is beautifully done ..
But the winner chosen by viewer votes.
SEE it and vote (or not) here:
http://genero.tv/watch-video/8530/
another cool video here for the Moby contest by Giorgio Costantine
http://genero.tv/watch-video/8546/
Cathy..watch it here again…i think something has changed.. :)
http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1271102946587RA38
Eva..:))))))))
you are in Istanbul??
i think i recognize that red flag..;)
ps: of course Alex (from magnum) has nothing to do with the Alex (video guy) above..
just to set the record straight..;)
I am just back from another crazy week-end…. after driving 2000 km from Belgium to the South of France and back last week-end, I decided that this week-end I was going to take it easy and get there by train to “collect” the kids…all I can say is BLOODY FRENCH!!!!…always on strike….my train got canceled on Sunday…ended up jumping onto another packed train with no seats assigned…. 5 hours ride turned into 9 hours to get back to Belgium…. People fighting over seats…. had to either stand up or sit on the floor with the two little kids… needless to say that I really love my dear country men during these strikes… Even loved the wife for having left me on my own this time to collect the kids…. I could have made an essay out of it for EPF :):):):)…anyway, the key is to be back….
Now, although no one seems to be talking about it…. let me remind you all that there are only 3 days to go, come up with an edit and submit your essay :):)… I am so behind this year…. I tried to get a few additional shots on Saturday going to a skatepark in Marseille…cool place but with a different look and feel. Moving from dark rainy cloudy sky from Belgium to bright sunny sky in the South gives a completely different feel to the photographs so I am not sure these will fit the same “short” essay…anyway, only 2 days to agonize on which pictures to select…. this year has been such a challenge for me…a bit last minute unfortunately but hey, last minute scrambling makes it fun….
In Marseille, I had also good discussions with my father who is a photographer himself but somehow struggles to get a project to focus on at home… he seems to need to travel and requires the more exotic destination to get going but then again, there is no way in just few days of a trip he can penetrate as he would like…so he ends up being a bit frustrated… while we were talking, I clicked on BURN and saw this magnificient SHOWER essay that I have really loved…. if there was ever one project to make the case that you do not have to travel far, this was THE ONE….
Anyway, better get back to editing…
Cheers to all-
Eric
PS: am I the only one scrambling??!!! Hope not :):):)
THOMAS.. just read your message. Thanks so much. I’m so pissed off as I went to an Apple mac shop and local electronics store and nether of them could suggest what the problem was, even with explaining with the headset I was using in my hands. I got sold another headset at the electronics store though..
thanks again Thomas. I so relieved its a simple answer.
Cheers. Peter.
David, I’m still here, just nursing a cold one in the corner most of the time, people watching, thinking, figuring it out till I have something to say … which is just me :)) I’ve been slowly working on the long game.
TOM HYDE,
Paul Graham’s “The Unreasonable Apple” that you linked to is a nice, comfortable counterbalance to the erudite bloviators on the SFMOMA rountable… not exactly two sides of the same coin, but Graham articulates well what many photographers probably know and feel instinctively, even if they can’t put it into words. Whereas the critics, the curators, the historians, professors, and the ‘critical thinkers’ deal with a whole host of issues that most photographers probably don’t think about much unless forced to… even though maybe they should think about these things more often…
Eric Espinosa- At least if you do a 2000km round trip you get the south of france all I get is Tennant Creek.
Glenn.. I’ve always found it funny , living in Australia also, that creeks are considered landmarks here. Obviously its not really as water is the resource anyone traveling through this land needs, but all the same, it still sounds amusing to my ear. Not river, but creek, in such a huge body of land, how demoralizing being lost in a huge desert trying to locate a creek. Maybe its just the way I associate the idea of a creek being a city boy.
TOM..
YES, I feel the same as what you mentioned David thought, “photography being an emerging language” I feel one could make an analogy to many forms of language such s Haiku being an obvious one to me. Certainly poetry; which has many forms. Abstract, Impressionism, Realism, Surrealism and on those ism’s can go. Minimalism. Maybe photography is a poetic language.
Peter Grant – Yes if you were lost in the middle of Australia you would be happy to find a creek …any creek. The landmarks in the interior are a lot more subtle than the coast and any change in the expanse is worth slapping a name on.
The thing about the creeks of the inland are the names …Skull Creek, Dead Man Creek, Muckaty Creek, Motorcar Break Down Creek all have a story to tell, but my favourite is up in the Kimberley called “Cheese Tin Creek” , two Afghan Cameleers were bringing a camel train of supplies across the Kimberley gold fields on a 3 month run and their last stop was Port Wyndham a small out post on the Western Australian coast where the crocodiles outnumbered the white men 10 to 1 and they wondered why no aboriginals lived there..anyway these two Afghans had a load of Tinned Cheese , no one knows quite what happened but somewhere on the old road to Wyndham an argument ensued and one of the Afghans was killed and the load of tinned cheese was found strewn about the body and the other guy had bolted, hence the name.
Just came back from the the NSW,Vic,South Aus border region……… lots of drought breaking rain, haven’t seen it so green for over a decade or more in some places. The Queensland floods are still coming down the Darling reached Bourke last month should hit Wilcannia the 2nd of May. Most of the dirt roads around the Darling are closed, great to see, took bugger all photos despite the great red green contrasts…….. just enjoyed the places
GLENN.. Great story. They have the right to become myths some of these tales. immortalized.. Brilliant. Now thats what our nations built on.. Kind of like, us small guys got as much rights as you big guys.. Gotta love it..
Imants – Let me know when it dries out!
Main email account is dead.
website is dead.
cant get hold of guy who set it all up for me.
but…….I have a big shiny beast of a 4WD outside the house being kitted out for eastern europe roadtrip.
so YAY :)
goodbye london, hello vladizzycstoktchztsk..or something like that.
John,
that sounds extremely cool! If I could choose a roadtrip, this would be it. In case you come across Germany (I live near Bielefeld) feel free to drop in. I have a map of Russia on my wall which shows all the way from Amsterdam to Vladivostok. In case you get lost I can give you directions ;-)
One question: is there a specific size for the EPF images?
Got to run
Reimar
reimar. I am figuring to cross into begium at ostende, and drive through belgium and germany to get to poland,before heading upwards into latvia, estonia etc, so a stop en route in germany would be nice.
john
sounds like a good route john.. luxembourg used to have cheapest fuel :ø)
the baltic states are brilliant… also a drive down the eastern polish border and through slovakia n down.. another world entirely.
how long you giving yourself for this wander?
d
david b. Not sure. as long as it takes i guess. bought a japanese import hilux surf. meant to be just about indestructible, so should be alright there. figuring about a month to six weeks, but if it all goes pear shaped then i will have to be flexible. doing all the boring logistics stuff now.
the baltic states are brilliant… though Latvia is a bit of a economic basket case, maybe it is back to sending parcels to the rels as we did in the old Soviet days, though they prefer cold hard cash these days
John Gladdy – I read somewhere about an Aussie Stock broker who drove his Hilux Surf from London to Sydney Via Afghanistan , feeling jealous about such a roadtrip through Europe when I hit the road all I get is this.
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/highways/mutika-10/
Hilux Surf – proper luxery !
flexible is good.. will see if my mate is in estonia over the summer..
he´s nuts.. you´ll love him and as far as music up there goes, he is one way in.
logistics.. ahh.. in 92 i did´nt have a road map nor guide book.. spent 15usd per day in fuel, practiced my german and had a compass stuck to the dashboard :ø)
when you know where you´ll be let me know.. must be a cheap ferry from norskwayland to estonia.
imants – indeed – some great artists abound up there though :ø)
Photoshop CS5 Content-Aware Fill
Is this the End?
common Glen you should travel in style fits a 44 gallon drum in the boot with room for a couple of feral hitch hikers……. http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&newwindow=1&tbo=1&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=p76+leyland&aq=0&aqi=g1g-m1&aql=&oq=P76&gs_rfai=
but seriously…is this the end of the “docu” photography as we know it…or just the beginning?
More like this one Imants – NOT THE KINGSWOOD!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/1971-1974_Holden_HQ_Kingswood_station_wagon_02.jpg
or it the paradise for the only press that is stronger than ever?
Gossip-paparazzi style content magazines?
Panos – If this scares you then go back to film :0
hmmm….yes but film can be scanned nowadays…
After reading those links Tom provided about the death of Photography and considering, as Panos suggests, the implications of CS5, I’m afraid I have to agree that photography is dead. And there’s certainly historical precedent for the manner of its destruction. Recall that unbelievable technological advances and widespread popular adoption has killed similar arts in the past. When something that was previously available only to a few and it is so difficult to master that only the most skilled can use it–when suddenly those technologies and skills become available to anyone, you might as well go ahead and carve the tombstone. Pretty much the exact same series of events killed writing. First only the most learned could do it. Then along came easy to get ink, then typewriters, then computers with word processors. Once anybody and everybody could write, nobody bought books anymore because they could just write their own, or read their neighbors on the wall or in the alley. Writing was just too easy. It lost all value. So I see photography taking a similar course. Try as I might, I can’t find anything wrong with that scenario.
Oh God here we go…useful for commercial and advertising…but if you are the sort of shit for brains that manipulates documentary photography and markets it as a true document the you are going to become unstuck…period!
Yes, in a historic sense, I fear Adobe CS5’s auto background fill will be the photographic equivalent of Microsoft’s grammar check in Word. Once Microsoft’s programmers figured out how to construct a sentence, literature was truly dead. So sad, and now it’s photography’s turn… Damn those programmers!!!
Michael Webster – I’m shaking my head – I never knew that writing was dead! Must have been that damn universal education and that new fangled typewriter, I guess someone forgot to tell Hemmingway,Thoreau and Proust!
Writing for people who are illiterate is dead!
Writing as an art form is not!
Photography for hire is dead …on the way out!
Photography is not!
Panos, interesting discussion building up…
Recommend reading a few pages on google books:
Photography: a critical introduction
http://books.google.pt/books?id=qhXKRR5Bv1sC&printsec=frontcover&dq=photography&cd=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
page 71 – Documentary and authenticity.
I think that altering images is as old as photography. Photoshop only made it easier…
Photography and Death… cool. Worth following this discussion… :)
i was kind of talking about the PJ part ..not the art part…
Looking at a D’Agata photo for example it makes no sense debating if its altered/processed or not..
but looking at an F-16 above Gaza shooting 6 missiles instead of one makes some difference..
http://magazine.viiphoto.com/
VII have an online mag launch..
anyway.
cave painting became canvas painting.. tools change all the time.. fundamentals much more rarely.
glenn – interesting.. a vast area of photo 4 hire is certainly dying.. yet photography has never been healthier nor so widespread.
i think you´re right..
its probably the “reality”/pictorialistic part of photography that gets slapped or doubted lately not that much the artistic / poetic part…It needs skills to photograph a dream and 10 megapixels are enough to photograph reality…
As long as we are all out there making photographs photography will stay alive.
It is if we stop – then the so termed “death” will occur.
It is irrelevant what Photoshop can or cannot do.
As for the conferences and discussion panels about the future and death of photography, while there are some good thinkers and writers involved in these events, it’s not hard (for me at least) to see such gatherings as functioning to continue the relevance of these individuals. It keeps them in a job so to speak.
And to say writing is dead is ludicrous. I still find that the best and worthwhile writing is still in print form, be it books or magazines etc, even if some of it appears on the internet too. I would guess that very little of the best writing only appears on websites.
CS5, actually i thing helps more the photographers for hire by taking the job from graphic artists…
unless the graphic artists snatch it up first rather than pass it over the desk :ø)
cave painting became canvas painting.. tools change all the time..
——————————————–
true…as long as the human feels the need to be expressed .. art will never die ..(and i dont know if i could call photography Art but definitely is a way of expression)
The reason i photograph for example, is not my intention to create “art”…its a burning need to express myself and im too lazy to start painting…
As long as we are all out there making photographs photography will stay alive.
It is if we stop – then the so termed “death” will occur.
————————————————————
..and obviously we will Not stop any time soon..:)
Ahh!!!!!……. messing with head space, I’m sticking with Alice and her camera that can make things ……………. who’s reality are you guys chasing in a photograph, you are all just making stuff up…………………..
writing and photography dead?….you’ve got to be kidding me…..in the blogosphere way too long to even recognize that blogs are defined by: writing….and most of the new content exploding is image-oriented…
MichaeL: i love ya man and i dig richly your posts, but that post about writing has got to be certainly driven by a too-early-for-insight caffeine-deprived drift ;))))….I hope, when the sun peaks his rosy knuckles that you re-read that beauty…..what art form has died in the last few centuries?….and the rhetoric about:
“First only the most learned could do it. Then along came easy to get ink, then typewriters, then computers with word processors. Once anybody and everybody could write, nobody bought books anymore because they could just write their own, or read their neighbors on the wall or in the alley. Writing was just too easy. It lost all value. So I see photography taking a similar course. Try as I might, I can’t find anything wrong with that scenario.”
you HAVE GOT to be kidding……lord let that be a joke ;)))))))
running to go gather some kill for my family y’all
b
it’s not about the death of photography, but maybe of how it will evolve.
For me, one of the questions is about the still / moving image.
The need for a still image came from print. that has already changed. since television, I guess.
the need for a still image? Looking for it…
PANOS:
right! No plans here to stop anytime soon.
Of course, you could imagine a situation where some photographers are convinced to believe that photography is dead if they read and hear it enough. But I don’t intend to listen.
Panos – Too lazy to start painting – Me too!
David B- the principles of a a working image maker are still the same, we are just moving our feet differently.
Rodolfo – a question I am grapplng with as we speak , a museum for example has shown some interest in a project of mine but do they want 2 dimensional prints on a wall? No , what they want is 3 dimensions , moving & still with an all singing ,all dancing historically accurate and entertaining soundtrack Can I do this ?
Fuck yes! I’ll have a go!
Bob; I think Michael might have had his tongue firmly embedded in his cheek… :-)
Photography is dead? I think it will be golden era for photography, but not for photographers.
Now it’s not so easy to be Cartier-Bresson or Adams.
Photography is not dying for sure, but it is hard time for photographer’s ego.
Bob, who said that in ours time all artist have to struggle not only with their art but also with past generations. All writers have to fight first of all with Shakespeare then with own work.
Who was that? I can’t remember now.
Glenn,
I tend to be lost in common sense. too often. Many authors have written about photography…
I’m just trying to reach out for the context of the still image on todays media environment. does “death” comes from stillness?
Nevertheless I think you are right.
Panos – CS5, actually i thing helps more the photographers for hire by taking the job from graphic artists
Exactly , It’s called moving the shit up hill:)
Or is not “death” we should be discussing, but a step forward?
I guess this was posted here before. Multimedia exhibition. This “installation” was somewhat distant from conventional documentary a few years back (?)
http://www.theplaceswelive.com/
No guys, I was serious, dead serious. Are you telling me that although everybody can write, writing has survived as an art? Don’t think I was using a ludicrous example to make the point that it’s the quality of the story one tells, not of the tools with which one tells it, or their ubiquity, that separates an artist from a layman and keeps the art alive. Really, that thought never crossed my mind. No. We’re dooooooomed, I tell ya’s. Doooooomed.
Marcin :))…
all artists must have to first struggle with themselves, that’s the real genius they have to confront and that’s infinitely more intimidating than Shakespeare or virgil or joyce or proust or our grandparents letters…. ;))…i mean, imagine how tough it was for the Bard to write a damn thing after Hamlet…and then, viola, came with Lear…:)))…imagine in the pub after Lear, ‘god damn, that old blind bastard Homer, what the hell, it’s all dead after this…”
Ross: :)))….that’s what i hope’d…but who knows….
Michael :))…i dont know who you’re reading now, but writing not only survives but blooms…in all it’s forms: novels, histories, poetry, essays, blogs, missives, graffitti, emails…….but, i will agree with you on one point: we ARE doooooomed ;)))))))))))))))….ever since those damn troiks went the way of the dodo it’s been all down hill…i mean, Ipad, really…aint got nothing on those Illuminated manuscripts…and the sound of latin over a candle-lit feast of mead and cockeral’s comb…;)))))…sill love u though…
a good place to begin, and this doesnt even catch a blink of the great shit i’ve read from the international community, let alone the new frontier of interactive web book/blogs…
http://www.nytimes.com/gift-guide/holiday-2009/100-notable-books-of-2009-gift-guide/list.html
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog – Writing?
Or
A man’s got to take a lot of punishment to write a really funny book- Ernest Hemmingway – writing?
taint the gear my friend!
Panos:
Looking at a D’Agata photo for example it makes no sense debating if its altered/processed or not..
but looking at an F-16 above Gaza shooting 6 missiles instead of one makes some difference..
————————
When D’Agata takes a picture of an F-16 shooting one missile and adds 5 it is OK. When it is a journalist it is not. Right? I don’t think so. Unless he says, or makes it clear he added the 5.
DAH
If I recall correctly, I saw something on here about a small Burn LOOK3 in June.
Is this still a possibility and if so have any dates been set?
“the large print giveth and the small print taketh away”-tom waits, ‘step right up’
on the ‘death’ of photography….
jobs disappear but stories live on….
the typesetter career path is a bit dismal, but the scribes keep scribbling….
making pics with webcams is still photography, just as legit as rolling out those beefy lg. format tanks to record the Crimean War….and we’re an image-jousting, language howling beast and that aint now, nor not for the forseeable future, extinct…since when have we all become chicken littles….
in my life alone, i’ve witnessed the death of painting, the death of sculpture, the death of the novel, the death of poetry, the death of newspaper, the death of the whale hunt (ok, that one i can fully support!, though sadly it’s not come true yet)….
and i just gotta tell y’all that i have a teen son and what the kids are shift-shaping with pics and vids are as exciting as anything that inspired me 25 years ago….it’s time to get out into the world and see all the juice that’s flowing…
When D’Agata takes a picture of an F-16 shooting one missile and adds 5 it is OK. When it is a journalist it is not. Right? I don’t think so.
————————————-
I dont disagree John…Neither one should add any extra missiles…coz that could even start a war..it could kill people..revenge could kill..it would literally affect peoples lives…but a surrealists art (altered/processed) photo wouldnt kill anyone..imo
The Death of Photography? Because of What?
A classic statement of our modern times. If you think it, you can say it (or at least write it) and another expert is born. CS5 is just a tool. Digital cameras, film cameras, typewriters and computers are nothing but tools.
Oh and the Death of Stock Photography. Hummm. Getty saves bucks using flickr shooters. The sky is falling the sky is falling. Is it possible that professional stock shooters became lazy, unimaginative and resistant to change? Hummm…
Let’s see, the Death of Newspapers, the Death of Magazines, the Death of Kodachrome ok, I’ll stop now.
Honestly though John i havent seen Antoine’s (Palestinians) work ..so i cant judge if and how post processing affects the photos…wish i had a link..anyone with a link on that work?
I thought reports of the death of irony were premature, but now I’m not sure.
but the heavy processing on Paolo’s work (especially color) is quite obvious..i think
Paul.. the death of Getty for sure..and viva Flickr for shooting stock photography pointblank..
i cant recall who posted a link here a little while ago about housewives making money through flickr..
they are happy making pennies , killing the chances of decent stock photogs to make a dollar..
all u need to to have is a point and shoot, a cute daughter and a bunch of roses…and boom…you are a stock photographer represented by Getty…making tons of pennies…thank u flickr , thank u Lord…new possibilities have risen…
Michael – leave Irony to Australians!
Michael! ;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
touche! ;)))))…
gotta run, u know, the sky; ))
cheers
b
I’m pretty sure that not only Panos and Glenn but many, many of us became photographers primarily because we’re too lazy to paint!
From Glenn Campbell: “…a museum for example has shown some interest in a project of mine but do they want 2 dimensional prints on a wall? No, what they want is 3 dimensions, moving & still with an all singing, all dancing historically accurate and entertaining soundtrack…”
While ‘rumors of photography’s death are greatly exaggerated’, one thing is clear… no, photography is not dead… but it has been demoted! ‘Two-dimensional prints on a wall’ is no longer exciting… Just as the weekly or monthly mass-market photojournalistic magazine à là Life, Look, Stern, Paris-Match, Asahi-gurafu, or National Geographic is no longer exciting. There’s a big difference between Death with a big ‘D’ and becoming passè and devalued. So, 3-dimensional installations, video, soundtrack, montages, naked dancing girls…
While I agree with Justin Partyka that what the critics are primarily concerned with is keeping themselves in work, some of what they say is worth pondering… (if only to refute much of it).
As for Writing, however, it is definitely, finally Dead!!! Bob Black killed it off for good 2 years ago with his unbridled passion, self-indulgent brilliance, an over-enthusiasm for emoticons, a complete disregard for spelling and grammar, and a total lack of emotional restraint..;)))))))!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Panos:
I dont disagree John…Neither one should add any extra missiles…coz that could even start a war..it could kill people..revenge could kill..it would literally affect peoples lives…but a surrealists art (altered/processed) photo wouldnt kill anyone..imo
——
Point taken…
“total lack of emotional restraint…”
SIDNEY… I like this one…
it’s a keeper :)))
ouzo and gardouba …VIVA !!!
Two somewhat related photos from this weekend’s rambling.
Sidney! )))))))))))))))))))))
guilty as charged ;)))))
just wait to you see and (i hope) READ my visura essay…waiting waiting for it’s publication…please decide by that rather than what i write here, as to the murdering of the language…:))))
hugs
b
Michael Webster…
Very nice two photos!
Eric – You are not the only one scrambling. I made my final edit last night, and still need to write the opening remarks. A little panic is setting in.
Technology has evolved to a point where the “tools of the trade” are no longer an issue. Back in the day you were required to have a certain degree of experience to work your camera and film. Results were not instant. you needed to be sure.
Removing the “craft” (considering craft as tech) from photography will increasingly challenge professionals to come up with new great ideas.
“No. We’re dooooooomed, I tell ya’s. Doooooomed.”
So, in essence we are……….”at the end of the day” :>))
i don´t agree that the ´craft´ is being lost from photography..
you know.. it´s no easier to carry out photoshop work WELL than it was to use a darkroom.. quicker perhaps.. although even that depends upon how much you want to åput into it.
the craft is changing is all..
i´m not sure that the next evolution of photography is aesthetic with regards to the single image though – i think it will be in delivery method – which undoubtedly will change the way photographers perceive their output.. multimedia and the like is a slow process if done well.. and so perhaps the delivery method becomes ever more part of the craft..
perhaps it always has been, since making a decent frame has been a craft of it´s own.
It’s more of a question of reinvention of purpose. Although photography seems to be everywhere you look … and even more popular than before, some may feel that it has reached the end of a cycle, adding this a certain degree of contraction in the market – as cheap stock arises, footage and images provided by “amateurs” are published, two-dimension prints seem uninteresting…less assignments…in an economic downturn environment. Seems a dead end.
Perhaps this is not new – and maybe it’s blowing out of proportions.
My doubts about the future of the medium are probably related to the purposes it will be able to serve in the future. For ex, How it will be distributed?
Another of my doubts is related to the still image, as I pointed out before (too many times, sorry).
Is stillness one of the characteristics of a photograph that will eventually contribute to its decline? How will it work with mixed media (we already know that) Does it still relies too much on print as it’s primordial vehicle and will face the consequence of the probable decline of printed media in favor of digital publishing?
Another issue would be – Is photography in a stage of “digital innocence” as Mr Jobs tagged the music industry when it comes to digital media? and selling online?
David has pointed out the potential of print in certain niches or specialty publications (such as books on demand). Printed paper will most probably become a “craft” with a specific audience. add the internet to boost its potential.
Maybe – think of Lomography…. Analog love… seems to be working. It has created value and produces “culture” in a very large scale “sub-culture”. Like it or not, it´s good business. And they did it on a fading out technology.
So, there’s hope.
So, my point is… opportunities are shifting. Will the future publishing industry rely on photography alone? I doubt it. Online tech caused a fusion of mixed media.
Ahhh….
David Bowen:
My point is that is much more accessible. Point ‘n’ shoot produced decent results on film, digital cameras are almost “fool proof” (?)
Generally I agree with you. by “craft” I meant almost “alchemical” secrets of the trade. It has become more standardized and accessible(?) doubts.
i get you..
more accessible is great – good work stands heads n shoulders above..
think of how accessible music has always been.. buy an instrument and away you go..
free music – on the radio – has not killed that.. and as with photography now – the best music sounds like the best.
these days anyone with a finger can tap a tune out on a computer, even without knowledge of layering, melody and context.. they can be tone deaf and produce something on a playstation..
i agree that a period of photography is ending – and that is tremendously exciting as moving forward with established and accepted philosophies about the still image well discussed can lead to fresh dialogue.. elevation of the craft rather than a pondering stale-mate.
anyway..
cracking open a cold one now.. carbonara for dinner and beates turn to cook.
fantastic sunshine.. tor tucked up in bed.
gone.
d
When it comes to multimedia, I think it’s possible for audio to enhance a slideshow. But if it’s a video, then it’s a video, not still photography. The word for video that contains a lot of still photos is “Ken Burns Special.”
I think a lot of photographers, pretty much all as far as I can tell, overlook the possibility of showing still photography on large screen tv. Color photography should look great on those things, at least from a reasonable distance. Like a lightbox.
Welcome RODOLFO !!!
can we have some visual…are you photophilosopher, civilian,donor,sponsor…
well, whoever…you are Welcome…VIVA…and ENJOY the ride !!!
back to the regular program …opa,opa,opa
DAVIDB…mate… I am coming over!!!
wine for me…let the TORCAPA enjoy some baby dreams…
BEATE I LOVE YOU…oime carbonara…
BURNIANS…
NO ,WE ARE NOT DOOooooMED…We are the best of the best and we are deserving the best!!!
What am I drinking???
Thanks CMA.
I’m a graphic designer. I’ve worked on photography on late 90´s. stopped in 2005. Nothing much. trying to get back in.
Visuals – working on it. I’ll try to publish something soon on my website.
PANOS; “possible that professional stock shooters became lazy, unimaginative and resistant to change? Hummm…”
And so have the agencies, it’s all got to be crisp, clean, clear, stereotypical, clinical; but has no soul. A bit like the local Camera Club annual that comes out here every year; every image perfectly lit etc, but no heart or feeling.
Or worse still; every professional photographer here seeming to use HDR resulting in every image looking like it came out of Charlton Heston’s The Ten Commandments…. Those skies…. Makes the old 70’s/80’s tobacco grad filter look positively classy!!!
GLENN; “leave Irony to Australians!” It sticks in my craw to say it; but gotta admit, you Aussies do it pretty well!! :-)
“How did the the record companies react when you initially approached them about getting on-board with Apple?
(…)Because of their technological ignorance.”
Steve Jobs, Rolling Stone Mag, 2003
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5939600/steve_jobs_the_rolling_stone_interview/2
ROSS,
Yes the agencies are to blame big time, and the clients as well. I’m glad you mention that. It’s not really the photographers’ fault per se. Because where there’s a vacuum….. it will get filled.
CP
The question was:
“Is photography in a stage of “digital innocence” as Mr Jobs tagged the music industry when it comes to digital media?”
Some insights and thoughts on the digital distribution of photography where given here previously…is this still a pertinent question?
Charles, Ross:
Agence VU seems to be an exception(?) Just wondering…
…..yes photographers are at fault as they viewed the media industry from a concentric viewpoint with the photograph as the core. Clients see the photograph as a bit player in the bigger scheme of things thus they have moved on with visual communication…………..
CHARLES/RODOLFO;
When I meant agencies I meant traditional stock agencies, not VU etc. Also another trend is for agencies to ask for releases for editorial images, pretty difficult most of the time!!! They also want the same old stuff, or you specialise in one subject, but that hardly pushes your own work forward.
As for shooting for stock agencies; I belong to two, both reputable. They want traditional travel, agriculture, nature type images. But to be honest; while they are “nice” images I wouldn’t want them on my own website… That might sound a bit snooty, but that’s not the type of work I want to be known for.
I’ve decided to only put work on my new site of the style I want to pursue and be known for in the future.
I’m also beginning to think that collectives like NOOR etc may be the way to go. I still feel that NOOR is at the cutting edge of “traditional” photojournalism.
And also like David often says, be a content producer (from shooting to end product) rather than a content provider (providing stories/images to mags).
Here in NZ there are really only two mags publishing serious editorial work (both articles and images). To be perfectly honest, the amount our mags are now paying is pretty abysmal. A friend of mine did a 3 hour baby christening shoot and netted more than I would for an article! Makes you think…
So I think there is a need to look for a different model. What I’ve found over the last two years is that shooting/writing for mainstream mags doesn’t push your work forward far enough. You basically have to shoot “newspaper style” images to accompany your stories.
The only avenues for more adventurous work seems to be books and gallery (or non gallery) exhibitions. I also think that exhibitions outside of galleries may be the way to go; e.g. Glenn’s recent WW2 exhibition. I’m sure it would attract a wider audience who would never think of entering a gallery.
I suppose I’m just musing out aloud as I a contemplate changing my work model so
I can attempt to undertake more serious shooting/writing. :-)
Cheers
Ross:
thanks for the NOOR reference. I understand the “wouldn’t want them on my own website” and it does not sound snobbish. From what I understand from your words theres a gap between the cultural backgrounds of those consuming (or commissioning) images and those producing them (?). hmmm… I understand the idea of bypassing mags / publishers… But is there an audience for innovative work?
RODOLFO; “But is there an audience for innovative work?”
I’m sure there is, especially now that images are so easily available. I feel that you need to be innovative, or be innovative in the types of story you pursue to rise above the everyday.
I feel that photography is going through what music did when it entered the digital age. It’s so easy to put out a CD now (equate with publish an image), but since there is so much dross out there you betta have a fresh point of view or not get noticed at all.
smaller publishing houses seem to have better publications. for “smaller” audiences…worldwide. hmmm. INTERESTING.
inspiration? for a specific “target”… MKT is the answer….
http://www.the-impossible-project.com/
http://www.the-impossible-project.com/2009
Out for the day.
“smaller publishing houses seem to have better publications. for “smaller” audiences…worldwide. hmmm. INTERESTING”…..pretty much the way the art world has operated since the invention of the camera
Imants; Some of us have only just entered the art world and are taking toddler steps… :-)
EPF stipend … “for a young photog to continue a project.”
Is that metaphorical tweeting, or literal, concerning age? Just wondering from the sidelines …
HI DAVID..
just wondering how I join in on SKYPE conversations. I guess I need a number to call when there are exchanges going on. I also realize you are continually busy with much demand so if I get a chance to speak with you.
As we live on opposite sides of the planet I understand it may be difficult.
My scanning has been put on hold as I just got overwhelmed with so much back log and felt I might be attending to the wrong subject matter. I’ve got a lot scanned already but much more to go..
Thanks. Peter.
Rodolfo
The question was:
“Is photography in a stage of “digital innocence” as Mr Jobs tagged the music industry when it comes to digital media?”
most definitely and for a number of reasons..
photographer paranoia regarding income / protection of rights / ability to continue long term projects..
new media increasing workload.. being torn between snaps and video shooting.. and so on.
the way i see it is that ever photographer will continue to create what they enjoy creating.. you do not have to master multimedia to be able to produce it – as there are others already established and skilled at producing it… just like there are skilled print producers and framers.
people will continue with whatever it is they enjoy and while some areas collapse completely others will flourish.
one hope is that photographic quality will not suffer at the expense of technology.. a snappy slideshow of poor images may have the ability to impress more than a solid set of stills in the early stages.. music may be used to fill a vacuum in the ability of the photographer to communicate visually.. yet there is lots to be positive about, as great photos combined with music and *whatever* will rise to the surface.
for me – i would love to collaborate more with video editors and musicians.. one ideal would be to create my images.. shoot some video.. talk idea´s through and have bespoke sounds and editing for a piece… simply because while i am able to edit basic video and produce some music, i know there are better people out there at doing it already and the ideas they could bring would be exciting to me.
Imants, Ross…
:(
DAVID B; Well said! :-)
991,691 and counting……..
:ø)
1 000 000th gets a chocolate cake.
“A young couple decides to commit suicide, because they want to bring the true horrors and unjustness of the world closer to the everyday people, who have become immune to it, and thus forgotten it.”
Finalist for the moby video
http://genero.tv/watch-video/1794/
“If I say too much, let me be christened an idiot… Everyday we wake with “choice”. It’s what it means to be alive. To love or to hate. To eat or to starve. To see or to abhor… It is how the world moves. Not by actions, but by the choices we make to create them.”
2nd finalist (out of 4) for moby new video
http://genero.tv/watch-video/3874/
“If I say too much, let me be christened an idiot… Everyday we wake with “choice”. It’s what it means to be alive. To love or to hate. To eat or to starve. To see or to abhor… It is how the world moves. Not by actions, but by the choices we make to create them.”
3rd finalist
http://genero.tv/watch-video/4370/
“A small, 16 bit computer game character experiences the worst day of his life.”
4th finalist
http://genero.tv/watch-video/8258/
Panos I love the positive one………….
hmmm..which one was that…? the first or the last suicide?
;)
YOUNG TOM…
i think you know that age is not a factor for the EPF…”evolving”, “emerging”,”growing” etc etc are better words than “young”, Young Tom…
PETER GRANT….
i do try to have editing sessions by skype with photographers here who really need some help with editing….i also get way behind in this effort depending on my schedule…right now i have about four photographers here who are waiting patiently for edits…but, you should simply use my skype name davidalanharvey and get yourself on the list….just make sure you have your work in a type of program so that if we screen share i am able to move pictures around, or tag, or in some way so that we do not spend our whole time online just trying to figure this out….also please please have a tight story line and 100 or less pictures…right now we are a bit busy since we are trying to organize the EPF and get out Burn in print simultaneous…nobody in their right mind would take on both, so your patience is appreciated….
RODOLFO…
i remember going to a seminar when i was about 24 and the discussion title was “The Death of Still Photography”…hmmm, that was awhile back….the plethora of images raining on us has nothing to do with the quality of those images…i look at lots of work…not all that is there of course , but surely a fair sampling from around the world either through submissions here, workshops, shows, universities,and photo festivals etc etc etc….yes, there are more images and more photographers which only of course creates a new “mean level”…as is true in all human endeavors, some will create a level above the mean…and on that level above the “mean”, there are no more, maybe even less, photographers with something special to offer imo….camera technology has taken the mystery out of most tech barriers, but still has not eliminated the need to think…
i believe you are absolutely correct in thinking that print will rise as a very special craft…no longer burdened with being used for primarily mass distribution…while online is great for community building, information distro, etc, nothing beats the tactile nature of print on paper or the power of a well hung set of prints…..
those who have budgets for photography in theory have their choice of so so much…lots of it for cheap or even for free…..the naysayers point to this as the way of the future….and in a down economy , the use of stock has always gone up…however, if these purveyors of photography ever get even the slightest budget raise they always always will jump on new production from a photographer they respect…even now with the print magazines dying , and budgets reduced, they are still using the very best talent they can find for new production….they could do it cheaper, but they are not….
i.e. look at the current water issue from Natgeo…they could have gotten water pictures cheap…there must be millions of water pics out there…but , they went for the authorship….the point of view….
in addition, the biggest and best ad agencies are reducing their budgets for the smaller clients etc etc, but the really big jobs are going forward….some of the biggest campaigns i have ever heard of are happening now..
everybody seems to be spending a whole lot of time worrying about the biz..trends, opportunities etc etc…misplaced energy imo…
point is: the number of fine photographers working/exhibiting/publishing seems to me to be the same as always…there are just more out there who think they “want” it because they see their work on the screen and say to themselves “hmmm, my picture looks a lot like that picture in print, so why can’t i do that too?”…and thus begins and ends the never ending discussion….what does it take to get above the mean?
to be continued….
cheers, david
David, thanks for your comments. It´s reassuring to know that still photography was pronounced dead several times before. It must have its ways…
“camera technology has taken the mystery out of most tech barriers, but still has not eliminated the need to think…” & “look at the current water issue from Natgeo…they could have gotten water pictures cheap…there must be millions of water pics out there…but , they went for the authorship….the point of view….” – I see your point. I’ts true. Still I fear that there aren’t too many mag editors that will mind a “personal vision”. ahhh… It’s likely that some photographers feel that they have to produce acceptable images rather than their own vision… for a number of reasons… and thats about it. A cultural Gap is created.
I have the localized NatGeo edition… I see your point.
Looking forward for the next chapter. Thanks.
RODOLFO…
you are right …there are not too many magazine editors, or curators, or gallerists, or book publishers who will accept a personal vision…no way…never have been and never will be…BUT, there are SOME..there are always only SOME of anything that is deemed forward thinking, on the edge, or however you want to think of it…so two things are necessary…first, YOU…you with your work totally together…solid….then, THEM…you gotta find the right “them”…yes, few and far between, but they do exist…easy to marry? hell no…whoever said any of this was easy? formula? hell no…anyone looking for “the formula” is destined to disappointment…the best find their way…how? because they MUST find their way…
i swear on my old Leica that i do not know anyone who is truly a fine photographer who is sitting around looking for something to do….with a closet full of great pictures that are going unnoticed…that is a very popular fantasy that simply is not true….for example, i track even the best essayists here on Burn…they are all either working, selling prints, readying books, exhibitions etc etc…do they struggle? hell yes they do…who ARRIVES? nobody…the best struggle constantly…maybe more than everyone else…
there is a lot of wallowing in self pity that i see in words particularly on the net…i am not talking about anyone here, but i sometimes drop in on some net photog discussions where photogs will feed on each other’s negativity…i saw that happening when i was in my early twenties at the newspaper where i worked…i used to call it the “negative round table”…so, i would leave and go do an essay…when i would get back perhaps weeks later with something to publish, the boys at the “negative round table” would look at the work in print and say to me “how did you get so lucky?” and then proceed to get even more negative…
like everyone else i see an evolving business and an evolving visual literacy…why would anyone ever ever expect things to stay the same? since when does anything “stay”? that would be boring….right now there are two essays up on Burn where i know for a fact the photographers are not complaining but moving their careers forward…both essays personalized and photographed right in their respective backyards…any editor (me included) will figure out ways to look at these photographers again…the sky is the limit, but you have to go outside and look up…
cheers, david
“negative round table”… I tend to sit there… sometimes. I´ll take it as a wake up call. Thanks.
camera technology has taken the mystery out of most tech barriers…
We say that all the time, but how true is it? If I leave my camera on automatic, almost every picture I take is crap, at least from a technical pov. Is there something wrong with my equipment? And all the other equipment I’ve ever used? Or does light act differently when it notices that I have my camera set to automatic?
I see tourists all the time with the same or better equipment than mine, but unless they’re taking portraits in the shade, I doubt they’re really doing that much with it. The new cameras are a little easier to use than a manual camera, especially the autofocus, but it requires the same knowledge and manipulation of camera settings. And Photoshop is easier than the chemical darkroom, but it’s still very difficult, when not impossible, to rescue an improper exposure.
So hopefully as more and more people are unable to get the highest quality photos from their expensive cameras, they will appreciate professional work more rather than less. And as has been noted for some time now, the fact that so many people now have very expensive equipment they don’t know how to use opens up opportunities for classes and workshops.
No, I don’t think equipment is the issue. Apparently many publishers don’t believe that quality photojournalism adds quantifiable value to their publications. If they are wrong about that, then publications that offer it will thrive. If they are right, and people just don’t care anymore, then economic good times are unlikely to offer much improvement.
for example a digital camera (most times) produces acceptable photos even on poor / unbalanced light conditions. on film… my point is that technology to produce – decent – images is much more accessible.
In the end a decent image is not enough… true.
Thanks David, your philosophy and answers to this everlasting problematic is very inspiring – and true, I believe. I have chosen not to worry about this, simply because I rather use my time and energy to work and produce projects that hopefully will opens some doors and make the worrying unneccessary.. Maybe I am naive, but I rather want to be naive than pessimistic. Despite of media crizis and less money in the business, there are lot’s of photo festivals, grants, photo magazines and books being published.. I guess photographers are searching for new ways to show their work and to finanze projects.
ANDREA
right attitude and it is why you are always busy and always doing new good work…
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
my GF1 is literally point and shoot….in ANY light….but of course it always helps if you choose a good lighting situation to begin….
RODOLFO…
where do you live?
DAH: Is the Emerging Photographers Grant is open to everyone? I would love to put an essay forward and tried to open a Slideroom account but it says it has not been activated. It is probably operator error but I would LOVE to enter this year, so if either you or someone reading this can help me, I’d be very grateful.
Your last line above reads: “going to sit down….reflect a bit….enjoy the evening… watch prints come off the printer …..it is not closing time around here just yet”… well I’m wishing you a wonderful evening but on I can’t relax on the other side of the world cos I so want to meet your deadline!
It’s less than 24 hours away now.
All best wishes and very sorry to trouble you with this.
Jenny
my GF1 is literally point and shoot….in ANY light…
It handles difficult lighting significantly better than your Nikon on auto?
Or is the computer exposing different parts of the scene differently in camera? Is it doing in-camera HDR? If not, I’m sure that’s in the pipeline. When every picture is an HDR, then perhaps photography really will be dead? (btw, I somehow manage to compartmentalize enough that I can ponder these issues without harming my productivity (for photo work anyway.))
DAH: I hope I’m not in the doghouse! Are you there? It’s New Year here in Bangkok and people on the streets are drenched in water and smearing each other with clay – even the Red Shirt demonstrators which is a welcome relief after the nightmare of last week! I’m confused by the timings – how it can be midnight here and midnight where you are at the same time? Are you still up over there?! : )
JENNY…
confused by timings or too much Singha? it is mid day here…12 hrs diff…why would you be in the doghouse?
Hi DAH,
Just picked up on something in your latest tweet. When you say EPF is to be granted to a young photog, what do you mean exactly. Is there an age component to the competition. Maybe you mean age in a relative sense. I am younger than some, possibly older than most, came to the table late. Am I out of contention? I would be really disappointed to find out that I could have been a contender if only I had followed my dreams sooner.
Frank Michael, David posted a reply to a similar question under Emerging Photographer – dialogue: «i think you know that age is not a factor for the EPF…”evolving”, “emerging”,”growing” etc etc are better words than “young”» . so I guess you should hurry up and submit now, and avoiding regretting not having followed your dream. Nothing is worse than that :-)
DAVID,
Thanks for these inspiring words…. The concept of the “negative round table” is not unique to the world of photographers I am afraid… it is must be the same in any profession… Always easier to be negative than to do something about it….
I have just sent a submission few minutes ago…I did hesitate a lot to use the work that I have just started around kids skateboarding and the “life” around the skatepark… ideal season is just beginning… but beyond the desire to participate, I am looking forward to your early critique and feedback if this is worth pursuing… I know too well that a real project takes a while to build up so we will see….
Separately, while in France last week-end, I came across one of the first examples of the Polka magazine…with quite a list of photographers in that one, Valli, Nachtwey…seemed like all your friends at once :):) The article was interesting… I did not realize you had some many “horse” pictures :)…I also liked reading why you like so much this “classic” picture of yours in Trinidad with the church at the back, the blue sky, the black kid and the horse at the back…
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP3=ViewBox_VPage&VBID=2K1HZST5CR3&IT=ZoomImage01_VForm&IID=2S5RYDW6Z7XG&ALID=2K7O3RDOAM4&PN=85&CT=Search
I love this picture and never quite realized your point until now about all the symbols of the invasion of the Spanish conquistadors” in that picture… I actually never mentioned this to you before but, these cuban pictures of yours in particular had been a real inspiration before we had ever met in person…. I even did a quick trip there and took at the time a picture of that same church (on my site http://ericespinosa.com under cuban moments picture 6)…. far far from the master picture….but was learning :):):)…(still learning :):):).
Anyway, always good reading you…
Cheers,
Eric
DAVID;
I hope my original post didn’t come across as whingeing because that wasn’t the intent. It was just a bit of out-aloud musing from someone at the crossroads, trying to figure out a workable route that will push my work forward (in quality, not exposure).
Don’t want to do a Robert Johnson and sell my soul to the devil, and am not trying to follow a yellow brick road; because we all know that leads to Oz, and Imants, Glenn, Lisa etc got there first! :-)
As for the “negative round table”; I left that behind when I left working at the supermarket, it was rife there!! :-)
Cheers! :-)
Ross all roads lead to Canberra and Norman Ross here in oz and you canget there with a Caltex /Woolies petrol voucher
Ross you sold your soul the day you entered the supermarket at the crossroads one way will lead you back………….or to Eden Park same same but different
IMANTS; “Ross you sold your soul the day you entered the supermarket”
Nah; but plenty of others there did! :-)
Hi David.
thanks so much for responding, particularly with the demands on you. All my images are filed in PSD and jpegs. I’ll need to find out how to share my screen.
Looking forward to it whenever you have time.
take care.
Peter.
David, I live in Portugal.
IMANTS; Skype has made the yellow brick road obsolete anyway… :-)
ROSS…
if there is one thing you are not it is a whiner…i know exactly what you want…i feel a bit bad i have not had more time to skype with you…i have gotten myself a bit overbooked shall we say, but i will make sure and make time for you….
RODOLFO…
have we met in Lisbon?? does not matter, just curious…i met so many when last in Lisbon, but i just cannot remember all names….
PETER…
do not worry about screen sharing…that’s easy and a two click maneuver…just get your work into a program where i can come in and edit…i am drawing a total blank on the name of the best program for this…ask Panos, he knows….
ERIC…
i didn’t know i had so many pictures of horses either….the Polka gallerist/editor came up with that theme on her own, searched them out, and put together the show……i found it a bit curious , but went along with it, always willing to experiment…..funny , but i sold more prints from that show than normal…evidently people like horses on their wall…..
cheers, david
‘
i am drawing a total blank on the name of the best program for this…ask Panos, he knows….
———————————————————-
PICASA..( both platforms..mac & pc)…best part = FREE download..
good thing is u can see the whole proof sheet in one look..
example:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/SkoulikariaJpeg#
“the sky is the limit, but you have to go outside and look up…”
DAH, yes yes yes.
With respect to “craft”, and the “death” of photography.
Painting was declared dead shortly after the invention of photography.
Having spent my entire adult life as a photographer, starting in the sixties, I can declare that without a doubt this is the most exciting time for photography certainly since I have been involved. It is the re-invention of photography. We all need to re-invent ourselves.
Craft? There are three mis-conceptions about digital photogrpahy. Those mis-conceptions are that it is: faster, cheaper, and easier. It is none of those. It takes way more of my time, I just give my money to different people now, and it is WAY harder.
Craft used to mean knowing how to twiddle all them dials and levers so that the pictures always “turned out”. Now, pictures always turn out. Modern digital cameras are amazing. However, I’m still making a living as a photographer. My skills are not just knowing how to twiddle the dials.
More than ever, the public can see the difference between what I do, and what they get from their point and shoot.
i just came back at my fathers house in a little town up north/west grecolandia…from athens
driving in the night …got lost couple times…its almost 5am here..havent slept yet but..u know i had to check with Burn first..let me check the new essay now..who has time to sleep???
big hug
thanks David..
As I’ve mentioned, I’m I.T. stupid. I’ll try and catch Panos then.
Really want to hear your opinion on whats interesting, and whats not, and why.
I listed you on SKYPE, so hope I did that right.
Cheers.
Peter.
Oh Panos.
just thinking about you. I’m trying to set up a screen saver so I converse with David where he can see the same images that are up on my screen. Can you recommend the easiest, most straight forward program and knucklehead can load up and manage.
Thanks mate.
Peter.
Panos… No rush.. Get yourself a good nights sleep and I’ll ask again tomorrow.
Sleep well.
Peter:)..its Picasa from Google..free
PICASA..( both platforms..mac & pc)…best part = FREE download..
good thing is u can see the whole proof sheet in one look..
example:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/SkoulikariaJpeg#
Peter..just edit your photos in your favorite edit program…put them in a folder..then drop it in picasa..
it automatically creates an album…then drop the link inti davids skype window..
the link will look like this:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/SkoulikariaJpeg#
GORDON…
you are right on all counts….these are indeed the most exciting times for photography…anyone who cannot see that must have ice in their veins…the expectations for a fast rise in the business etc far exceed what is really possible, but that is simply impatience and today’s need for immediate gratification… i.e. it took me 10 solid bust ass years AFTER i was a pro before my work was seen internationally…matter of fact the ONLY way for anyone to see the work from my generation when we were in our twenties was to get published in Life, Look, or National Geographic…no other way….now, for the new generation there is Burn!!! fast international exposure and fame… smiling…man, i would LOVE to have had a Burn….no kidding…i woulda ripped it….
cheers, david
DAVID; No worries! Still working, still shooting…
Thanks Panos… Spelled out clearly and exactly what I need. Brilliant buddy. I’ll pop in and check it out now.
Cheers.
PANOS..
thanks for the info for Peter….helpful…now, i am trying to figure out when/if you coming back to U.S…stop in new york???
of course im going back home…end of April beginning of may…
i think i have a new idea…i think i have a new exciting “original” idea to survive in california…
coz being homeless is not fun…
so i have a new “project”…not only photographic but also life altering..im gonna reinvent myself..
and of course im gonna shoot the hell out of it too..im gonna create a new “backyard” for me…
stay tuned…
PANOS…
fine tuned….stop in nyc for a cold beer on the way…
yes yes… hook me up with a cold beer in the big Apple and i got your back …
cold coronas and “blueberry” in Cali…
ANDREA…
Thanks for the advice. It’s going to be a late night.
Hey All – Just had a bit of a win!
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/newwork/just-made-the-top-10/
,…..good stuff Glen,lets hope you weren’t crooning Galveston to the pilot…….
Was it here I read someone quoting an Indian saying?
His story, her story, the truth.
This is great; I so was looking for these words and didn’t even know it.
Who posted?
Good on ya Glenn!! :-)
DAH: I was put in the dog house at birth I think but hopefully I’m coming out of it now. While I was in there, I learned to bark very loudly – although my bark is worse than my bite as all my friends know. : ) What’s this about you drinking beer? I thought you were teetotal?! Was that a myth being spread around? I’m the one that is almost teetotal – although I did get pretty drunk on Thai whiskey a few days ago…
DAH: I want to know if I’m eligable to enter an essay for the EPF grant? The system says I’m already registered under my email address and I may have forgotten the password but, the system for the Slideroom is not giving me a new one. What to do? The clock is ticking around the world…
LEE the artist,
it was WENDY, yeap…
wendy
March 31, 2010 at 12:52 am
PAT
I’ve always loved the Native American saying,
‘there are 3 sides to every story,
his story,
her story
and the truth…’
as photographers,
we are always telling
only one side of a story…
which in part,
is our story…..
xox
Congrats Glen. Nice work.
ADMIN… gotta help my BURNIANS…the clock is ticking…
GLENN…beer and tea on YOU…
Just made the Top 10!
Thursday, April 15, 2010
By Glenn Campbell
Every year Capture Magazine run their peer voted “Australias Top Photographers” competition every year, a couple of years back I came 10th in the photojournalism category …
aha,…
Glen, congrats!
Where are you BURNIANS ???
KATHLEEN FONSECA… and many,many,many other BURNIANS…
come to BURN …to say hi…you are just a click away…or
nahhhh…don’t listen to an old civilian
GO OUT AND SHOOT…ENJOY YOUR FREAKING LIFE…DoAsDah
Special quote for me ha ha
Philip Jones-Griffiths
“The only thing we photographers really want more than life, more than sex, more than anything, is to be invisible.”
whooowa
who said that?
spooky
sorry the Freaking doesn’t sound so civilian:)))
Dance to your vision …opa
hey gals ‘n’ guys,
Have some new stuff on my site from Yakuza
The covert training camp….
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/04/14/the-covert-training-camp/
hugs to all
anton
Anton,
Do you have a place on your website where I can find all yakuza photos? One of the best story here on burn. great.
ANTON, ANTON,ANTON,
pay attention Universe…ANTON is out and BURNING…
more drinks ,please
hey marcin!
no not yet… right now i’m only releasing photos every time i have written a story… you can see all stories on my web site.
soon i’ll be able to show all the things i have created… i’m working hard on a website/format so i can show my book, my magazine, multimedia, contact sheets and stories all integrated…. i’m almost there but not quite yet.
all the above things are already ready (holding the physical magazine and book in my hands as we speak), so it’s the “package” and the “delivery” for Yakuza that i am concentrating on.
I hope it’ll make a big bang :-D
Antoooooooooooooooooooooooooon!!!!!!!!!!
Extraordinary…deeper than ever…you are “in” the story…i doubt if anyone can dig deeper than that…even if u stop shooting today..i think you already nailed…i see a best selling book there..
can i please shoot your portrait for the last page of your book?????
Glenn…what else can i say except from CONGRATULATIONS..?!!!
:)
can i please shoot your portrait for the last page of your book?????
——————————————
or at least for your facebook profile?
hihiiiiiiiii…
Can he??? can he???
What Not to Love or What’s not to love…AAA
he he..2 late civi..i had the 1200th comment
;)
I will have to call AKAKY…:)))
David AH,
I am usually not into twitter but I have to say, I love your tweets. The last one really put a smile on my face, very funny.
Best, Valery
AAA=Anamorphosis,Autogenesis,Autognosis
or
whatever is in your heart…!!!
GLENN…
good work amigo…and i like your blog in general….
Panos – Kinda Hard to do geographically speaking , but from what DAH told me about you we have a lot in common – Trying to get to the USA next year – First Stop after Singapore is LA – you up for it?
:0 I like your blog too Uncle
time for a new dialogue post…when it gets over a thousand comments , then time to change i guess…besides i have to make a couple of announcements anyway….
GLENN…PANOS…
you two together?? hmmmmm….fires up my imagination even as i have my first coffee….
I just went back to my last blog post and found that I had written the word year 3 times in the opening sentence…hanging my head in shame…I desperately need sub-editing!
No David, we haven’t met.
Glenn, fantastic. Congrats. Panos, if you do stop by New York and have a little time, let me show you around Coney Island. You like Venice, I’m pretty sure you’d like Coney.
PANOS…
deal!!!
:-)
BIG congrats, Glenn! Those shots are spectacular and the story a bit chilling. The pilots ASLEEP??? Yipes. Think I’ll stick to ground shots myself…
Patricia
VALERY..
i hated the thought of Twitter when i heard about it..but now, i find it kinda fun..easy to post from iphone etc…and you can get creative when you have only so many characters…an electronic haiku…only problem with all this stuff is that people now know where i am….my previous specialty before all this blogging, tweeting , etc was that nobody could find me….those days seem to be gone
Oh Anton, man, you just keep DOIN’ IT!!!!! What an amazing chapter in the book/presentation is this eye into the Yakuza’s training camp. The tone you’re bringing to your photos is perfect. The hair stands up on the back of my neck the minute I see it. What an astounding body of work you are creating. Talk about AUTHORSHIP!
Can’t wait till your book is out in the world…
Patricia
The constant updates are becomming a problem in the media too , where some organisations have banned blogging , tweeting etc during work hours because reporters being so stoked that theyhave this or that interview , scoop , angle tweet it or blog it to the detriment of their publications exclusivity.
I heard of one reporter who tweeted that he was walking in to interview an infamously hard to get subject and by the time he came out a reporter from the opposition paper was waiting in the corridor for his turn …while the recalcitrent subject was feeling talkative.
First Stop after Singapore is LA – you up for it?
———————————-
yup..yup…will start the tour in venice…then desert…and for desert…?
midnight tour in the Centinela Jail…dont worry its walking distance from venice..
after we are released we can finish our coronas in the magic RV…
:)
ANTON:
that 1st image is magnificent…an opening image for a book? :)))))))))))))….just kills :)))….running
b
ANTON..
pleased to see you posted your work here…and i love your interactive website….of course i have been keeping up with the work and your Blurb book Odo sits right on top of my coffee table…well, nicely juxtaposed with Patricia’s of course…your next trip will put the icing on the cake i think….this work will take you far….
cheers, david
GLENN…
yes, i have to be very careful what i post from Rio…do not want to give the story away in advance…
While I’ve got you Dave, lets skype soon?
Michael…:)
Coney Island…for a second i had thought that would be my new venice, or avalon in case i would move to NY…
definitely give me a tour there…your backyard…
DAVID
sure keeping my fingers crossed and working my ass off at the same time… as you well know amigo… i’m confident that things will work out, though always a bit of luck, timing involved and such…
BOB…
here is my most likely opener… http://www.antonkusters.com/odo_cover1.jpg
cheers, anton
panos skoulidas
April 15, 2010 at 10:21 am
why use napkins or biz cards? get an iPad!
steve Jobs 2010bc
ANTON,
“here is my most likely opener… http://www.antonkusters.com/odo_cover1.jpg”
I loved the numbers … even if they had to be explained. You killed that concept?
Anton
LOVE it….
intriguing….
***
hey LASSAL!
the numbers are still there.. that is the MAGAZINE…… this is the BOOK…..
hugs….
anton
Tired of napkins?……….. http://www.artouko.com/im.htm
Photography IS dead because I am over it!
..so over it.
Anton, I can’t wait for the book. I will be one of your first buyers. Really want to see the tattoos.
Glen just found your blog. I am amazed continually at the layers in Burn.
closed
ANTON :))))))))))))
ok, i change my mind, that green dream beauty is a gorgeous opening :))))….so, ok that beach image, how about a closer? :))))))))
can’t wait to get this book….
and by the way, im very very close to ditching b/w in favor of color….really….the painter in me is returning big time, ….i love love the greens of your opener….
ok, gotta fly…big news later :))
hugs
b
GLENN..
can you wait til i return from Spain? i leave saturday (17th) and return the following sunday (25th)…i am just booked every minute between now and departure time….many thanks
IMANTS…
yes, tired of writing on napkins as my only distro of personal info that should be on a proper biz card…
Nice slideshow here, especially if you’re interested in how to properly light and photograph a cave.
Superb cover, Anton (if i understand it’s about a book upcoming). I still remember when you were merely planning to do that subject. I am still queasy about the chivalry of gangsters, but that has nothing to do with your work itself.
Sometimes i try and log in on BURN, usually no ‘submit’ button, but today, it shows, so i can send!
Still in Thailand, just back in Pattaya from that really cool place, Sangklaburi on the Burmese border, and here in Pattaya, unlike the rest of the country, the crazy celebration of Songkran, the Buddhist New year, is only kicking in, to reach full water-drenching folly on the 19th. If it wasn’t for the photography, i’d leave the country the entire week, but duty calls. I will use my cheapest DSLR, needless say.
jenny is in Bamgkok, and did not let me know? ah, mai pen rai……. :-)
Anton and i had a long long talk this morning and we both concluded the best for all was to extend the deadline for the EPF until May 1…now, exactly the same thing happened last year…two reasons: first, we are both overwhelmed with Burn in print production falling simultaneous with EPF…second, too many emails are coming to me from either people who did not know about it or just found out about it and are asking for an extension….for those of you who crammed til the last minute and wish you had made a change or two, this is now possible..we are not encouraging wholesale restructuring of your entry…most should leave well enough alone…but, you CAN if you must…
HERVE,
Sabaai dii ruu krap, mon ami?
Your presence on BURN has been sorely missed while you have been incommunicado.
I have had to take on Bob Black single-handedly!
david ~
for biz cards check out this link….
do it yourself…easy upload…inexpensive…can use several images…eco friendly paper and mini’s too…
http://us.moo.com/en/
~ thanks for the extension of the EPF deadline…:~)
hillary
ANTON,
I also very much like the cover shot. I can tell that you are carefully selecting the color palette of your photographs… pastel, soft colors…there is also a painter in you…. I presume that you are working the palette afterwards to achieve this consistent look. I very much like the result! When are you going back to Japan?
Have you got plans this week-end???…still need to get that beer…and would love to see that famous upcoming book of yours!!!!
Let me know.
Cheers,
Eric
DAH/ALL: Can’t find a reply to my message but: what not to love?!!!
DAH,
Seems to me the ideal person to help you design and print your business cards is LASSAL, if you can get her!
EPF deadline extended…
So, after 1246 posts on this thread, it turns out that it isn’t really “Closing Time” here after all…?
another postcard.. no way to catch up.. Panos, it you’re around, been to Ara’s café today, gallery too..
http://www.slowemotion.it/pics/postcard02.jpg
HAPPY BIRTHDAY …CHRIS BICKFORD
and my kibbutz boy HERVE, hey mate, another long lost BURNIAN soul…Happy Birthday to you…!!!
Extension…for my taxes too…aha…
Love you ALLLLLLLLLLLL…new aura …can you feel it???
PS I LOVE that latest news!!!
DAH: Wishing you a wonderful time in Spain! I lived in the Alpujarras south of Granda for a year and still miss the place – there’s a wonderful hippy hangout/artists community there! : )
hey Eric,
yes going to japan for the whole month of may… exciting!
re: the color palette… yeah i work pretty hard at that one, it’s an important part of the story i want to tell
i might have a few moments to spare this weekend… maybe we can indeed meet! will check my agenda first, and it’ll depend on how much work i get done designing the burn print mag… top priority that one…
cheers,
a
ps. weather is nice these days in Belgium, isn’t it?
JENNY…
i am confused by your EPF question…Anton , where are you? i was thinking YOU had too much Singha…i rarely drink beer….
SIDNEY…
yes yes Lassal….let me find out if she would do it…
ANTON,
It is indeed nice these days ):)…Not that frequent so you have got to enjoy when it happens…. Let me know what you plan… Quite week-end here on the Espinosa side for once, no train, no travel, just time to relax…weather is meant to be nice all week-end as well…. sounds to me like barbecue time in the garden :):)… I am sure doing this print edition of BURN must be quite a task… cool that you and David also follow through with that one….everything is happening like you had planned!!!
Believe it or not I will be in Japan the first week of June for work so we may cross each other…. I am going to Kobe for a week… I am sure you must have tasted Kobe beef there…the very best…. sounds terrific that you will be able to spend another full month there… Mr Anton is slowly building quite a piece of work…cannot wait to see it.
Cheers,
Eric
Hillary, DAH,
smiling … I just ordered my sets of moo cards last week.
I am doing separate sets for each project. So if I meet someone who is interested in a specific project, I can give her the respective card. This combination obviously offers a lot of advantages.
Speaking of business cards,
moo is outstanding. the quality is great and the presentation is awsome.
buying 200 brings them in this nice presentation box:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tfelix/4524475934/sizes/l/
since you can have different pictures on one side, you can create a collectors edition:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tfelix/3799897445/sizes/o/in/set-72157600087488120/
DAVID
This is not easy to write but it’s been bugging me all day.
As one of the many Burnians who took your EPF deadline seriously and actually beat it by one day, I can’t help but think this unexpected extension — on the very DAY of the deadline — was not a very good model for emerging and/or young photographers. Especially since one of the reasons you give for extending the deadline is that people have been contacting you saying they needed more time. Huh? You’ve had the announcement for the EPF deadline posted here for months. We’ve been discussing it for months. If we’re in the “real world” of dealing with deadlines for our professional photography assignments, aren’t we expected to get it right the first time?
And I’m sure you are totally up against it as you try to pull together the print edition of Burn, but haven’t you known for at least a few days that that project would make it tough for you to deal with all the EPF entries right now? Not to mention that you’ll be heading off on Saturday to Spain for the opening of your Family exhibit. If you’d announced the EPF extension even a few days ago people wouldn’t have busted their butts trying to make today’s deadline.
David, I’ve been at 6s and 7s all day, taking out my unexpressed frustration on innocent folks, including my Eddie. I know myself well enough to know it’s way healthier for me to just go ahead and say what I need to say to the person directly involved. So here it is.
Patricia
I’m afraid that I agree with Patricia. And it goes beyond just the EPF. Showing compassion to people who can use a little compassion is simply wrong. It victimizes the people who don’t need any compassion and who don’t gain any benefit from anyone else receiving a bit of compassion. In fact, it’s the people that don’t need any compassion that deserve the most compassion and people should respect that by having compassion for them and not for anybody else.
Or not?
Count yourselves lucky as you can go back and re edit, remember this is about an ONGOING PROJECT …….. so un bust your buts guys and start tweaking your submission.
………emerging photographers are not real they still have a lot in common with pixies and fairies
Hi Panos..
don’t know if you know what the problem I’m having might be… I down loaded the Picasa 3.6.5 version for mac OSX 10.4.9 and above. I have OSX 10.4.11. After down loaded and inserted in my hard drive, I click on the down loaded Picasa icon, in which a message comes up that this is only suited to “intel-mac”. I’ve tried down loading picasamac36, which seems to be the same as 3.6.5, and recieve same message.
This is not idiot proof!
Any suggestions Panos. Thanks buddy.
Cheers. Peter.
peter – unless you have an intel based mac or a pc the download upload tool will not work..
there is another way i am sure.. i have albums there from my time using blogger.. not sure how to access directly though.
Thanks David… Why it wouldn’t work with a straight mac I don’t know, but, I don’t know much about these things.. I guess there have to be other downloads, but where oh where do they lay?
a photoshelter free account can work quite well.. storage is only 150mb, but thats plenty if you reduce the image size..
alternatively how about making an online slideshow through lightstalkers? it´s really easy if you have an account..
there is always flickr as well :ø)
DAH: The problem is: When I enter my email address and password to enter Slideroom, the following message comes up: “Account not Activated.” The email address is the one I always use and the password is new as I forgot the first one I chose several weeks ago. I have no doubt that I am making some error, but what it is, I have no idea. Sorry to trouble you with this and I hope you’re having a great day.
Jenny you have to sort this out with slideroom ask for another password or create a new account
jenny
send an email to support@slideroom.com they will help you immediately
a
The deadline is extend and there are two more weeks to prepare for a good essay and continue shooting. This is good news and a help to many – me included, even though I submitted on time.
However I like to raise a general question on how strict, how consistent do we have to be?
This week my photo students asked me to extend some deadlines for them. Their main argument was: I have no time. I explained that I was not willing to do it since I feel every student should have the same opportunities. To me there is a difference when you have only a few weeks to write a report or some years. Unfortunately some students were very persistent and kept asking and arguing. So I returned the question and asked them to answer it for me. Of course they spoke in their favour. One reason to stay firm in my decision is because the semester has just begun. Usually towards the end more exceptions have to be made anyway. Another reason is that I saw no problem for them to take the course again and try to write another report.
Inside I was asking myself all the time: am I counting peas? Is this over the top? Am I doing them a favour by letting them go the easy way?
I talked to a colleague of mine and she raised the question: what do we want to achieve? With this questions in my mind I went to the mensa to have something to eat and think. My lunch breaks always get short because of all these discussions. Anyway, I came up with a compromise and asked the student to write a new report, about a new topic, but I told them that it would not be compulsory to attend class since they had already done that. At the same time I said I would be glad to see them in class because otherwise they miss a good opportunity to learn. We will see what happens.
From my own experience and from the experience with students I see there are always characters who simply just never make deadlines. All their work is well done, but as soon as it comes to deadlines – nothing works. During my time at school or university I kept everything until the last moment. Bad habit. My mother is the same… shall I blame the genes?
And then there are other students who arrive always on time, who do everything correct, precise – almost a masterpiece of a student. But: they often lack imagination, creativity, looseness. This is a generalisation – I know.
Another aspect that comes to my mind thnking about this is that I know that my faith often depends on the mercy of other people. And I pray and hope like anyone else that the decision will be in favour of me, but this is not always the case.
In India I learned this wonderful word „to adjust“. My friend Ravi explained the Indian concept of this word to me and said that in a country with millions of people there is little space for the own ego. At home in Germany I have my own flat with several rooms, I ride alone in my car, I have 3 empty seats around me in the train… nothing like that works in India – unless you are rich. In India it was common to share a room with several people, there was hardly no ride in a taxi without looking for other people to join in as well. We often sat with 3 people in frontseats of a taxi and even more on the backseat. Needless to mention the trains – even the ever so smallest space was used to make room for another passenger. At first I thougt: this can’t be true! But then I noticed that it works pretty well and actually it is good fun. Okay, it can be a pain as well if the person right next to you is snoring or someone didn’t feel the need to wash the feet… still I love travelling on trains in India – 2nd class without air condition!
So, what is the conclusion to this question for me? Okay, I cannot deny my roots which are in Germany, the land where trains don’t arrive at five, no they arrive at 17:03. Guess this has affected my way of thinking. At the same time I have learned that rules and deadlines can be adjusted as well. Flexibility yes, but there are limits. I feel I need a good reason for extending my limits, then everything should be possible.
I think David has a good reason to extend the EPF deadline.
Good luck to everyone who enters the EPF!
Reimar
been mailed this – if you´re in london check it out.
Shoot Bloomsbury
Saturday 1 May
British Museum
10:45am – 6:00pm
http://www.shootexperience.com/bloomsbury
Shoot Experience and the London International Documentary Festival present a new and unique interactive experience, combining film and photography with audience participation.
Teams will be given transcripts of fragments of film clips taken from a montage of iconic films. Using the local streets for inspiration, they will spend the afternoon constructing photos to represent each of their snippets. At the end of the day all photos are collected and stitched together to create a unique photographic storyboard to bring the film clips to life, shown on the big screen in the majestic surroundings of the British Museum.
Prizes will be awarded for the best and quirkiest photographs and selected photos will also be displayed at the British Museum as part of the LIDF closing party.
Thanks again David.. sounds good for me.
cheers.
Peter.
I’m just thankful I had the nerve to submit the essays and to “finish” them. During the months I shot these essays I put to use several of DAH’s very distinct teachings: the black dog theory, only shoot in THIS light, and first and foremost to focus and listen.
Sister Patricia I am glad you were able to express yourself without bloodying anyone’s nose. LOL.
Reimar, love the syncronicity of your dilemma with your students and Patricia’s comments. I know she values your opinion a lot.
Today I finally located the authors of the tracking cooking that was wreaking havoc with the operation of Bridge & Photoshop. I feel smarter now. Tomorrow there is just no telling what could happen.
Jenny – just create a new g-mail account and go from there
Why is Picasa for Mac for Intel-based Macs only?
” -(Google Employee) Go to this answer:
We understand your frustration, but I can assure you that there are real technical reasons that adding PPC support to Picasa would be a significant amount of work. It’s definitely not “only a matter of clicking a check box”.
As with all feature requests, however, we will certainly consider it as we continue to develop Picasa for the Mac.”
“I want to say that I respect everyone for still having their PPC Macs. I have a PPC Mac as well. Also I feel the economy is not doing very well. People are losing jobs, they can’t find jobs or they work in jobs that paying them lousy wages. People cannot afford a latest and greatest hardwares and softwares at this time! These software and hardware companies are releasing products too fast! An example? Adobe with its CS4 programs! Heck Adobe CS3’s aren’t old enough yet! Also Adobe jacked up prices of their new softwares! We are living in a system where they want everyone to consume too much, and it is sad!”
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Picasa/thread?tid=52492d35c6eb5c7f
Peter , i agree with DB…choices then are : either Photoshelter oe Flickr unless you have a Mobile me account and can upload straight through iPhoto… dont despair…:)
Just to clarify, my concern was not about whether or not David should have extended the EPF deadline. It’s his grant so he certainly has the right to change the deadline if he chooses. My concern was all about the TIMING of his decision/announcement. To pick up on Reimar’s example, this was like having been assigned a paper months ago, staying up all night to finish it, then going to class the morning it was due and having the teacher announce the deadline had been extended two weeks. It would have helped to know that even a day or two earlier. As I say, it’s about timing.
Regarding individuals who had good reasons for not being able to meet the original deadline, seems to me they could have been given additional time.
Patricia
Imants
April 15, 2010 at 11:13 am
Photography IS dead because I am over it!
—————————————–
like most folks think about their cars…”this is the best car (coz it belongs to me)!
or their cameras (this is the best camera {coz i bought it})..and when they buy the next one..
then the next one is the best one..and on and on..ahh they also do the same with their relationships..
(people always try to convince themselves that their choice is the best choice..the wisest..!)
i do get why people complain..i do get why people are always looking for a good reason to get frustrated..
what i dont get is that they dont get their need to be frustrated..it keeps them awake and alert like a strong morning coffee..or so they think..
i used to think that money alone (competitions , contests or not) do bring frustration…
but i now think that the competitive spirit(Ego) is more responsible for such behavior..
EPF Extension regarding…
Anyway you see it is a Great thing..
Firstly it doesnt make any difference for anyone…Whoever has a great essay…is done anyways..
Now there are also people that just heard about it..great ! 2 more weeks to create new essay
( and more money for Haiti)..
There are also folks that want to re-edit.. Great, there is an option..
There are folks that want to re-submit…excellent..there is an option…
There are folks that decided the last minute to Not submit because of insecurity of not done yet..now they have one more chance (more money for Haiti)..
But it seems that there are always people out there though that they think that less people know about it..less people submitted..less people finished on time…less people entered…
the More chances have to “win”…Sad but true..Mathematically are right : If only two people submit (and one of them is me) then i have 50% chances to win…
ok..i get it
Ok, sorry for the self-promotion, but my essay “The Oxen of the Sun” has now been published in Visura Magazine. It’s part of a longer body of work that began right here, or rather, with David and Road Trip, entitled “And our memories brief as photos”…anyway, it’s kind of my version of The Odyssey, or rather my take on the odyssey and memory….or maybe it’s about reconciling memory, or well, it’s just pictures….
Sidney: i hope the text is a bit better (typos) than my posts here :))))
it’s dedicated to my parents and david and my wife and son….
it is an extraordinary edition and I felt so so humbled when i saw the other essays….i just felt honored to be with such extraordinary company…and also to be there with friends too….
you’ll see some Burnian names there as well :))))
enjoy
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/
hugs
bob
as for grant extension: i say: WE SHOULD ALL CELEBRATE ONE ANOTHER, regardless….just participating, on 15th or may 1st, is honor and pleasure enough….I’m happy david did this to include as many as possible….but it doesnt matter: david’s support of all photographers is what unites me to him and all of you :))))
let’s rise about bickering and just make good work! :)))
hugs
bob
It would have helped to know that even a day or two earlier.
——————————————————–
Patricia, why?
what would you do sooo different?…And lets accept that you would have done a different edit..
why so frustrated ? Especially now that u have all the time in the world to either re-edit or Even re-submit?
Why taking out on poor Eddie?
(…taking out my unexpressed frustration on innocent folks, including my Eddie…)
you know better than that Pat…yes you do…
Again nothing wrong with a couple extra dollars for Haiti or even Burn..why we have to be so guilty about Burn getting some pennies…????
BOBUS (as DB renamed u back in the day)…
CONGRATULATIONS
CONGRATULATIONS
CONGRATULATIONS
CONGRATULATIONS
CONGRATULATIONS
CONGRATULATIONS(X1000)
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/
:)))))))))))
…and also few folks just figured today (me included-THANK U LASSAL) THAT we can submit second and third and on and on Essay with different email address..
(again , more money for HAITI..)
ITS A WIN WIN SITUATION..cant u see???
biggest hug
Panos, my dear friend. I don’t have a chance in hell to “win” the EPF grant so that has nothing to do with my concerns. Besides, you’ve known me for two years now. Am I a complainer? I think not. Do I share my feelings as honestly as I can? That’s what’s going on here, my friend. No more, no less.
Patricia
bob, bob, bob, bob,
bobbedy bob,
bobbedy bob.
(to the tune of SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM)
CONGRATULATIONS.. we have a BB gun.. POW.
it is a great issue.. enjoy ;o)
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/
PANOS
employees of jobs are worried that jobs are thin on the ground and that low paying jobs are more frequent.
s´a whole lotta jobs goin darn :ø)
BOB B
HUGE CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Your essay looks wonder-full…full of wonder, power, memories, poignancy, celebration, sadness, joy, paradox, complexity, and ultimately the essence of being human. You deserve all the recognition this publication will give. May it lead to ever greater opportunities for you to share your vision with the world.
Patricia
Showing compassion to people who can use a little compassion is simply wrong.
—————————————————————————
It victimizes the people who don’t need any compassion and who don’t gain any benefit from anyone else receiving a bit of compassion.
—————————————————————————
..people should respect that by having compassion for them and not for anybody else.
————————————————————————————
Michael ;)..
Im afraid that the Dalai Lama would disagree with the above statements…
one thing about BOB though..i loved the photos…really great presentation…
and i cant wait to see Bob jumping into a color palette …and mess around with colors (colours for europe)
Ladies and Gents..once again..mr Bob Black…
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/
THE OXEN OF THE SUN
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/bob-black-the-oxen-of-the-sun
Panos/David/Patricia ;))))))))
u guys are totally making me blush…..i gotta run, but i promise to write more here this afternoon…your love and support means A LOT…it’s gonna be a freaky day ;)))))
hugs, more later
running
BOBUS ;)))))
ps. Panos: yea, color color soon :))))))…i hope
love you cats
those circles Bob those circles………… http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/bob-black-the-oxen-of-the-sun
…..if only two people submit (and one of them is me) then i have 50% chances to win… no Panos the other person is me, seeing that I am presenting photography as road kill, I win you lose ha ha ha ha ha ha ahaa
As greek , Silver medal is fine…
As an american i hope you die so i’ll take your crown…
hahaha!
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/bob-black-the-oxen-of-the-sun
your dad looks like u Bob and your mom is very pretty…Are u sure you are not adopted?
(bad joke..i wish i could re-submit)
biggest hug
Bob,
Big Congratulations, it looks great. You deserve to have a great day.
Best, Valery
See this will even strip you off silver including those jingle dangle coins in your pocket ……. http://www.etrouko.com.au/imants.htm
as a A merry can you have all the fuckin guns………… ha ha , hang on ,ah ah
BOB
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/bob-black-the-oxen-of-the-sun
congrats!!! Totally cool!
I sent you an email.
hugs.
Im afraid that the Dalai Lama would disagree with the above statements…
Yes exactly. That was my point. I was shocked by the raw ugliness of Patricia’s post and thought paraphrasing it in such a way might be helpful. Sorry, I’m sure that’s insane. It was very bad timing. I’d just gotten home after witnessing one of the strangest spectacles I’ve ever seen, which is saying a lot because I’ve witnessed some incredibly strange spectacles in this life. I can’t yet articulate it, but compassion was involved and I’d been thinking of it in those terms on the way home. Or better to say a stunning lack of compassion was involved, or radical indifference to compassion –again, it’s difficult to articulate. But if I ever write my memoirs, that will be an interesting chapter. I took a few photos but haven’t looked at them yet. If any is good but not too good, maybe I’ll show one.
Anyway, Patricia, sorry for the snark, I know you are a good person. But I think you would do well to take Panos’s advice and contemplate what the Dali Lama would say about your feelings on this matter.
PATRICIA…
you know i am always for laying things right out on the table…and i totally appreciate your honesty….transparency is always best…however, i really do not see quite your point at least in the dire way you express it….
deadlines are extended all the time in the magazine business and in the grant giving business as well…as a matter of fact, except for breaking news, most magazine editors move deadlines backwards and forwards all the time…i do indeed live by deadlines, but i cannot remember EVER any deadline that did not move at some point…so this is very realistic based on the terms you so described as “setting an example for emerging photographers”….
i really did not see a disadvantage for anyone for this extension…those who might have felt they were up against the wall now have more time to tweak out their entry…those who might not have known about EPF may now know…if this extension brings in one more deserving photographer into the mix, then i just do not see the rub….at the end, we will have more good work, not less…
Burn is not a cold institution….we are organic by nature…….the whole origin of EPF as you may remember comes from the readership here and has evolved from their donations in support of a photographer on the edge of doing something special..
in this spirit, which is the heart and soul of Burn, the number of exceptions that Anton and i make here for Burn readers on a daily basis goes on and on…we are a small family here on Burn…and the amount of time that i spend either on personal phone calls, private emails, personal reviews, or the extreme exceptions Anton makes daily even though the rules for submission are the rules…etc etc. i think should allow us a modicum of flexibility on how and when the $15k, that was raised because of this very familial nature, is dispersed….
we do absolutely no publicity for the EPF other than simply make it known here on Burn and a small mention on the Magnum site…other grant givers, as you can well see, go to extremes to get their grants publicized…we do no email blasts, no pushing at the print photo mags..we do however want knowledge of the EPF to reach as many as possible and make sure that everyone gets their entry totally perfect…
i must say Patricia that you sound a bit like the student in school who got her homework in on time and then gets upset with the teacher who sees Johnny running across the schoolyard hair flying shoes untied with his term paper and late for class and the teacher cuts Johnny some slack…smiling…this seems to be your only complaint…and of course i do understand it…that is why Anton and i discussed this at great length and came to this mutual conclusion…
for anyone who sees this as a grievous error, then i will personally refund their fee without pulling out their entry or disallowing any changes they want to make…again, my liberal way of doing things…
so sorry mi amiga to have gotten you so upset on this fine spring day…
cheers, hugs, david
And congrats Bob, just read your essay. Very moving.
Regarding the EPF, btw, I have no dog in that fight. I’m feeling guilty about the Haiti part of it though. I’ll try to send in $25 anyway.
I thought we closed this dialogue ages ago…………
….. quitting time zzzzzzzzz’s
BOB….
i am going to save the viewing of your essay in Visura for this evening, after i am packed for Spain etc., and can sit back, relax and enjoy…ironically one of the things i must do this morning is an interview about Burn for Visura….in any case, congratulations for your publication on Visura…and i await your special essay coming for Burn…one of the most interesting and special things about life on the web is the interaction between what would have been competitors in print…i.e. our very special relationship with Jim Estrin at the New York Times and mutual efforts with PDN , Slideluck, etc etc…
looking forward…
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
if you do this, we will take your 25 bucks and put it right into the Haiti fund…Burn will be making a nice contribution to Doctors Without Borders….our deadline extension will only increase the amount for Haitian relief…and of course, as you well know, i will have my door open for you at the loft for portfolio review, consultation, or editing at any time…
cheers, david
Hey could we extend that deadline by five years, I should have a good start by then, although six might be more realistic. I’m such a turtle. :))
Bob, congratulations! What an amazing issue, you are in good company, and no, I got no dumplings today.
“got open dumpling?”, I read. I wondered. I smiled.
Don’t cha wish? :)
YOUNG TOM..
you are such a fine photographer….nobody produces “on demand” singles quite as well as you…all you gotta do is string them together with one theme…no hay problema…
David, thanks for your response and for not taking my criticism personally. My issue was all about the folks who pulled all-nighters or close to it trying to get their entry ready in time, only to discover they could have gotten a full night’s sleep because they had two more weeks to prepare. It was not about the deadline being extended. That is great — the more the merrier. Just about announcing it on Deadline Day instead of a day or two earlier.
You know me well enough, I hope, to know that I am not inclined to pick at people’s choices. This one just pushed my button. Not for me. Hell, my entry was in on April 14 and I feel ffine leaving it as is. No, I was concerned for my Burnian buddies who had lost sleep that night.
‘Nuff said…
Patricia
DAH,
Funny you tweet no portfolio or business card. I have neither at the moment. A couple years ago bought some fancy embossed portfolio books which lay empty. Need to change that but sometimes difficult to start. Esp business cards as I think important when photographing strangers or making intros on new projects.
PATRICIA,
As DAH says switching deadlines is very much “part” of the real world of photography. I was going to answer that last night but thought it best for David to answer himself. I don’t know how many times I’ve been told that an editor wants to see everything I’ve ever done, TOMORROW, only to find out a month later they still haven’t made any decisions on the work. And like he says, pushing back deadlines is pretty par for the course in the photo contest world, partially because they are money generating operations. So take a deep breath and remember everyone’s in it together. Some people are highly organized and ahead of time, others perpetually scramble. In the end it all comes down to the quality of the work itself.
Best,
CP
DAH, ANTON, etc
I just submitted an essay under submissions (probably bad timing with EPF). Wondering if I should resubmit under EPF so you get another $25 for Haiti? In no way do I consider it EPF work but just want to do my part but not confuse either.
CP
PATRICIA,
Looks like we crossed paths. Like I said above, those who lost sleep on the 14th would have lost sleep on the 30th instead no matter how early the deadline was extended. It’s just the way some people deal with deadlines (usually myself included. :)).
CP
PATRICIA !!!
We know that you know that you are a true BURNIAN…
that’s why we are here…cause we want to express ourselves …
keep the windows open…“You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.”
Aristotle (Ancient Greek Philosopher, Scientist and Physician, 384 BC-322 BC)
BOBBYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY BLACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
my boy… you are the bullocky…you and the sun and the oxen …
i like Bones BUT I Love the oxen … kiss Marina and Dima and your fingers…
I am so proud of ALL of my BURNIANS…I know you are all out there to make it…competitions,money,
fame …BUT in the end we are ALL One…
civi
MR.HARVEY,
may you the spirits of travel be with you…on the road again…
hey, you got to do…what you got to do…
VIVA !!!
typo: may the spirits…
when I am so excited …I can’t write…(sure, I can’t write anyway…:)))
opa,opa,opa…I better blame the red wine…
Charles Peterson
April 16, 2010 at 11:06 am
PATRICIA,
Looks like we crossed paths. Like I said above, those who lost sleep on the 14th would have lost sleep on the 30th instead no matter how early the deadline was extended. It’s just the way some people deal with deadlines (usually myself included. :)).
CP
———————————————————————–
Charles..exactly
…its the nature of the “last minute” folks (me included)…its how folks deal with things..some love the deadline “allnighter” pressure some protect themselves from that..im pretty sure that there will be people that they will stay awake and wait to submit the last night before may 1st…even if u give them another deadline they will do the same…
PETER GRANT,
Re: Picasa – I don’t have a Mac, but you should be able to upload to your Picasaweb account through your browser. Bit of a pain, though, as I think you are limited to uploading 5 images at a time.
In the end it all comes down to the quality of the work itself.
————————————————————
Charles i agree once again…You either “have it” or not…regardless all the deadlines or pressure in this universe,..
Michael..:)
ha ha..u got me all confused in the beginning until i saw that “not?” in the end..
he he ..i agree with you..:)
PANOS,
Well the nice thing is that now those last minute types, having gotten the hard part out of the way, have the opportunity to go back and make changes. Can’t say the same for those that now wait until May 1.
But since I’m I don’t consider myself “emerging” it’s nice not to have to worry about doing this. :)
CP
BOB B,
Congrats! Will look at more closely when I don’t have the little guy. Only recently discovered Visura, great pub.
Gotta run, feeding…. CP
BOB,
My sincere congratulations… Good to see your name in such good company…Talk about authorship, the minute you look at this essay you know this is a Bob Black essay… you have created your own world, distinct imagery… I am sometimes intrigued, not always sure what to think when seeing some of these “anonymous” faces that are so hard to identify, like ghosts, but you transport me somewhere unique for sure and you are touching our hearts including mine!
Well done Bob and I am very happy for you. What’s more, no one here spends as much time as you here sharing constructive feedback to the photographers… so it is great that the light is on you today!!!
Eric
PS: need to read the text now….might bring my dictionnary with me just in case :):):):):)
Hey Panos, I was happy you got my Buddhist reference. For whatever reason, I often use the rhetorical strategy of arguing something ludicrous with a straight face in order to make the opposite point. Guess I hate to be so serious all the time so come at serious subjects kinda sideways.
David, that was very kind. I do have a project, or at least an overarching theme, and a plan for specific sub-plots under that umbrella with lots of room to move. Those will bring coherence and tangible benchmarks to my 10-year plan. The scope is huge but still geographically confined, and centered. In reality, I expect it will be the core of my work for the rest of my life. It’s so nice to fall in love, to find coherence, and worth the wait and the angst. I’m in a good place where I do not expect anything but am still driven to create a body of work as a historical legacy for both myself and the people and the place. I know somehow that if I define it publicly now, it will kill it. I do have a few good photos so far, and you did publish one, but still, it’s not far enough along. Next year.
DAH in Spain —
anyone have any links to any sites to any info to anything AT ALL about this exhibit of DAH’s family fotos?
TIA
dq
dq, here:
http://www.hoyesarte.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4313:david-alan-harvey-en-efti&catid=133:galerias&Itemid=460
thank you eva!
PATRICIA…
i understand…yes, knowing a day or two earlier might have saved some Burnians a night’s sleep, but we did not know a day or two earlier exactly what we were up against since this year all of the entries pretty much came at once because of our new system…and losing a night or two or three or four or five of sleep over EPF is pretty normal for both Anton and i, and we are busting it to give away 15k, not any chance of receiving it…we are all in this together…..please know that in any other stipend offering that you know of, this transparency in both directions does not happen….so, whatever we can do to keep this open dialogue going, even the behind the scenes stuff, is i think worthwhile…
cheers, david
Bob, congratulations. I intend to view it at length when I have a bit more time. Initial viewing looks intriguing.
EVA…
yes, thanks Eva…i had no clue about that link…the EFTI site will also have something soonest…
DQ..
you in Madrid??
tom.. last of the patient photographers..
enjoyed your thoughts there..
DAH – good luck for spain.. hope to catch you on the other side.
:o)
dq, David, you’re welcome.. and you better speed up flying over, before they close down.. wait, were you flying into London, David? If I’m not mistaken all airports are closed down there, most of Northern Europe, even Italy starts to shut them down now.. courtsy of the vulcano up in Iceland…
it’s true eva – bergen smells of rotten eggs and all airports are shut..
london was shut today.. unsure of tomorrow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8621407.stm
Patricia
As regards lost sleep, I did lose some but I do my best thinking in the wee hours, as many of us do. It’s just not as easy as it used to be. At least not without chemical intervention that is.
I had my project prepped ages ago but like I said on the EPF post, I’m a victim of myself in that I second guess and rehash stuff at the last minute. I’m not going to adjust anything this time. What’s done is done.
I always find it difficult to keep in touch here at Burn. So much discussion takes place that I simply cannot partake in. And when I do stop by, I am overwhelmed with content. Does anyone else suffer from this?
I’m hoping now that I’m getting a handle on my time and archiving chores, I’ll be able to linker longer and more regularly. The last couple of years have been intense, time wise. Hoping life can be a little slower for a while now. My wife and I have pledged not to take any more long haul flights for a while. Quite a while in fact, if ever again. We have also pledged never to own a car again. We are trying to slow our lives right down, right here in London. It’s public transport from now on with the occasional hire car. To live more in the moment. And outdoors too. That’s the plan.
We also got rid of the telly. It’s amazing how the living room opens up without a telly. Carefully selected programming online instead. More conversation. MORE BURN and the like. The stuff of life. The stuff that matters.
Shortly the boys will be in bed, my wife will be out with friends over the road and I will luxuriate with a cold beer and slip into Burn mode.
Back in an hour.
paul :o)
mate – one hour ahead of you..
beate with workmates for a drink.. top cat in bed.. beer in hand..
TV droning like a broken fridge in the background…
laptop on lap..
wireless rays making me sterile..
all good.
Guess my inexperience in the world of photo contest deadlines is showing here. Live and learn ;=)
Now, let’s get beyond all that. I have what for me is BIG NEWS. Today I put IN an order at B&H for a NEW CAMERA, a Canon 7D!!!! I am ready to pursue my dream of becoming a multimedia photog. Video here I come! I read tons of reviews, but what really sold me was this YouTube video shot with the 7D. Check it out…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPgImFwO4wc
I so want to be able to do that kind of thing, but for me, I want a combo of still, video and audio. Hey, maybe I can add video to my Falling Into Place project…I already know I want to add it to Just Another Married Couple. Once the camera arrives all I have to do is learn how to use it! AND to learn how to start thinking like a videographer. Wish James Chance and David McGowan lived nearby. But I looked up online and found that the art college that I attended in the 70s has a series of ten classes this summer called “Digital Video Production.” Just the thing. It is time for me to climb out of my comfort zone. I am SO PSYCHED!!!
Patricia
Patricia, hope you’ll have fun with the new cam.. I’m a couple minutes away from throwing out mine of the window.. fifth floor.. nice flight it would be..
ANTON/ DAVID,
I was just checking few sites this evening and came across this gallery on Canon (CPN site.)..Can you just imagine how cool this would be to have something like this to scan through BURN archives and past essays…
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/gallery.do
As I know that you guys have nothing on your plates, I felt you could do something like this :):):):):).
Anyway, hope you guys have fun on the print version of BURN….
Cheers,
Eric
PATRICIA,
Looks like it’ll be a good camera for you. Any reason you didn’t go all the way for the 5D? (price most likely).
One word of caution though. When you are doing video, you are not taking stills. And vice versa of course. So you have to decide what it’s going to be and stick with that decision. Yes, multimedia is all the buzzword, but you might want to consider sticking to one media and OWNING it. Trying to do too many things at once could lead to confusion. I know this happens to me sometime even if I have too many lenses along.
Best,
Charles
DAH
no, not in Madrid. stateside. just hoping to find a link to some of your FAMILY images we’ve been reading about hear for what seems like the longest time.
any plans to show ’em back over here?
have a good trip, the airlines should be flying over europe by the time you take off.
DAH
no, not in Madrid. stateside. just hoping to find a link to some of your FAMILY images we’ve been reading about hear for what seems like the longest time.
any plans to show ’em back over here?
have a good trip, the airlines should be flying over europe by the time you take off.
PATRICIA, et al:
there’s a website where they’re offering FREE online workshops, and one will cover shooting video, run by the SLR high def wizard and pioneer vincent laforet (laforetvisuals.com)
others cover photoshop, aperture, some painting, lighting
the workshops are free online if you can “attend” while they are giving them; if you can’t you can buy a dvd.
on the surface it all sounds good….
http://creativelive.com/courses/vince_laforet/
cheerio!
CHARLES
As I understand it, the 7D is, in essence, an upgraded version of the 5D. I chose it because the body is very similar in size and configuration to the 40D that I’ve been using exclusively since Oct ’07. With my gimpy hands, I’m better off sticking with what I know works for me. In relation to quality of video, here’s an interesting link to a comparison between the 7D and the 5D:
http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm?id=8245
EVA
Why do you want to throw it out the window? What problems are you having with the 7D? You can email me if you’d prefer. playdorsey@comcast.net
DQ
Fantastic info!!! Thank you SO MUCH! That sounds like JUST what I’m looking for.
Patricia
Interesting Patricia. I own the 5d Mrk II and have yet to delve into the video of it. Plan to learn on my trip. Although Panos advises to forget about planning… I heard somewhere that parts of Slumdog Millionaire were filmed with the 5DMrkII. I love my camera totally. I graduated from a 5D to 5DMrkII for same reason you picked the 7D–familiar with the workings and it was still quite manageable size wise. Cameras get heavy after hours of carrying them; I can never seem to leave mine hanging from my neck. I feel captured. It always hangs from my right hand or slung over my shoulder.
Looking forward to hearing from you on stepping outside your comfort zone. I checked out your comparison of the 5D and 57. Thanks for the info.
PATRICIA, et al,
I think the best way to think about video in conjunction with stills is to make each totally it’s own. Don’t try and replicate with video what you are trying to do with the stills otherwise why even bother with stills. But using the video to do something like auxiliary sit down interviews is perfect. And I’m sure you can come up with other unique uses – just don’t compromise the power of the stills.
BTW I guess the last episode of HOUSE this season was entirely shot on a 5D MkII. Personally I’m a Leica shooter because the size is so great (not to mention quality and way of seeing) but also use Nikons. Looking forward to Nikon’s answer to the 5D MkII that should be out sometime this year. If I can afford it that is (where there’s a will there’s a way). Have fun with the 7D. I think you will esp notice a huge difference shooting under low light, probably an even more important advantage than video.
CP
more pictures from Iceland:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/icelands_disruptive_volcano.html
Bob – Congrats! Great Essay!
Patricia
What fun!
One thing about the 7d, for some curious reason, they have dropped the custom function that lets you use the af-on button to focus.
I, and half the photographers I know use this feature. With this function, the shutter button no longer activates the auto-focus. Instead, you focus by hitting the af-on button with your thumb. The camera then stays focused until you want to re-focus. \
Without this feature, you have to partially depress the shutter button, hold it down to keep focus, re-compose, then take your shot. Then you have to do it all over again to take another shot. Even my Rebel has this feature. For the life of me I can’t believe they dropped this feature. Photographer buddy Gary Peters bought a 7d, and returned it for this reason. He even called Canon to ask if it was hidden somewhere else, and was told no, they had dropped that function.
If you don’t use this function, no problem. If you do, you might want to consider a 5d11 instead. I love mine, but have never used the video feature.
Patricia
I was just going by what my buddy said. But I just had a look at the DPreview of the 7d, and though the menu options for the af-on button have changed, I think this feature may still be available. Anyone out there have a 7d?
Justin..
thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully a Photoshelter account is enough. If so problem solved.
cheers.
Peter.
Hi Panos…
Thanks for leaving that thread, and I totally agree with the couple you quoted, I too feel our society has been consumed by a rampage of products that are literally being designed in to our daily “needs”.
As I already have a Photoshelter account, not realizing when I asked the original question, that this would be enough. At least I hope so…
thanks again for your support. Peter.
ALL: FIRST OF ALL, big thank you for all your congratulations and support…it has been a very intensive day…and getting more intensive…especially since my gmail account was put on hold as my original email was deemed by Google to have too many contacts and seen as spam…me, spam?…i bc’d the Dalai Lama, who the hell is google to shut my account down for 24 hrs…;))))…real story…so, ok, i’ll make it short
DAVID :)))..thank you for the note…im calling you in 15 minutes!…and just you wait for the Burn essay i send you :))))…and I am so so happy that you’ll be interviewed by Visura…Adriana and Graham are great and wonderful…and you got that right, we’re all in this big family, who could have imagined long ago at Road Trips, right?…from James Estrin and Lens to Visura to all the great things we’ve all been able to help each other and build upon…it’s a bright future for all, as i’ve said for a long time :)))…and there is NOT another person on this planet, outside of Marina, who has been more supportive of my fucked up vision and ‘epicurean’ needs ;))…if u read the essay to the end (with corn cob), you’ll see your name…big hugs :)))
IMANTS: THAT’S all we have, circles circles circles :)))))))
CHARLES :)))..thanks amigo…i tried sending you an email, but all this got screwed up today with google…but i hope you enjoyed and can enjoy it with wine :))…and some of that s. american vitamin :)))
THOMAS :)))..thanks so much, i really appreciate that :))
LASSAL :)))) merci beaucoup…send you an email…who knows if you’ll get it…my gmail account is fucked today ;))
ERIC: :)))..thanks so much so much….yea, i dont know either what i think of the anonymous faces, but yes, all my work is about ghosts…and i hope love and wrestling with all that…who knows…in many ways, all those faces are kind of my own faces…and who knows….i want to make photos that just are physical things, just like a painting, like scent more than stories…but who knows….well, if the photos speak late at night, with wine, and the words make sense late at night…but, you know my philosophy, fail better :))))…big hugs
LEE :))))…YOU;ll get a free copy of the book when finished, I promise :))))…especially since we didnt have time to talk that much before in NYC…big hugs :)))
MICHAEL WEBSTER: :)))…thanks so much..and NOW i get you :))))…you’re Dalai..i knew i loved you at first inspection :)))…thanks amigo :)))
SIDNEY: WHERE ARE YOU: are you going to read what i’ve written ;)))))))))))))))
CIVI: after Marina, After David, you ARE MY HERO! :))))…sending u love and love and love
http://www.visuramagazine.com/issue9.html
ok, running
bob
hugs
bob
Excellent, Bob, CONGRATULATIONS!
DQ…
yes, it does seem like the longest time since i started the family project…my work always takes a long time…i only show pictures every few years…i began 2 years ago, but had to stop for lack of funds…recently i have taken on several assignments, both ad shoots and NG work, to pay myself back for the investment in the one year of family shooting and to finance the into the next year…of course, i sometimes am able to squeeze in a family picture here and there while i am doing other things…but, i do need one big cross country push…a solid 6 months or so on the road…to further slow things down a bit, the NG assignment in Rio became more than an assignment….i now want to do a Rio book…so, i will most likely now actually do it before i finish the family work…and so it goes..plans, changes, different plans…however , at the end of it all i should have Off For A Family Drive and Rio…doing the work in progress bit on family in Madrid is just to see how it feels on the wall…longterm i have some very specific ideas for a large exhibit…this Madrid show is just a peek…
your free workshops from Vincent are most likely paid for by Canon since i believe Vince is mostly supported by them and any workshop is expensive to produce, so somebody has to be sponsoring this one……in any case, get in on it…take advantage for sure….
hope to see you on my upcoming cross country trip…i keep fantazing an almost traveling circus…a bunch of us crossing the country caravan style…group book..everybody does their own things…workshops, hangouts, the whole bit…anyway, for another day…
cheers, david
PATRICIA…LEE
my understanding was that the 7D was not a full frame sensor as is the 5D…that would make a big diff to some for video purposes…or am i wrong about the 7D?
i think the suggestion from Charles is correct…do one thing or the other….the mix, as i have said many times, is in fact an effect and not something you would most likely want to do all the time…and Patricia if you have the 7D and it is not a full frame camera, this could actually be better for you since it should be easier to keep in focus…the 5D while having the quality afforded from full frame, that is indeed usable on large theatrical productions, must really be used on a tripod for best use…or shoot to the predetermined mark a la hollywood…….the beauty of it, being able to throw the background out because you are using “normal” lenses, also makes it not so good for hand held docu shooting without an extra 3k worth of gun stock shoulder mounts which also makes the camera package then a pretty big hunk…
cheers, david
yes David..u are correct..7D nothing in common with 5D..5D still the “real” deal..
if its just for video i would go with the new canon Rebel…same 18mgp files…HD video…and 3 times cheaper…
or a GF1..way cheaper..way smaller..way better lens..way better files…
DAVID:
let u a message on your phone…u get it??…but, now, i think that message might be in the atlantic since u lost your phone in Rio….check ur email,…i want to talk :)))
b
PANOS…
i should be making millions of dollars from Panasonic because i keep “selling” the GF1…alas, i actually bought the camera myself…have never tried the Rebel, but hear good things….but, the GF1 for video is quite good…..have not done much , but when i playback what i have done it is amazing….i cannot get that little camera out of my hand….so organic for me…does not replace the M9 or my 700 as a workhorse, but it sure has me shooting all over the place all the time…some can compare this file or that file and this megapixel break up or that, but i like it simply because it works..i never end up actually comparing anyway..it has a fantastic meter…fast autofocus…feels good in my hands…user friendly controls….a serious point and shoot….
Thanks, Charles, DQ, Eva, Gordon, Lee and David (who have I forgotten?) for weighing in on the Canon 7D and video/stills. Most helpful info.
Regarding the AF-on button or lack thereof on the 7D, I never used it anyway because it was just one more button for my less-than-able fingers to try to deal with. It’s enough for me to manage the shutter release, and I’ve gotten in the habit of pushing halfway down to focus and then recomposing, so nothing will change for me there.
Regarding the 7D not having a full frame sensor, David’s point that it will make it easier for me to focus is a great comfort. I rarely use the manual focus now, so that part of shooting video will be a bit of a stretch for me. Any help I can get from the equipment will be much appreciated. Besides, I expect to be mainly shooting close-up hand-held video although I have an excellent tripod if I choose to use it. I bought the Canon 15-85 mm f/3.5-5.6 lens to use with this camera because I know how I like to shoot. Log distance telephoto is not my style. I like to be in people’s faces.
I expect to be very pleased with the quality of stills I’ll get from the 7D but will be primarily focusing on video, at least to start. That’s the skill I want to develop. Then I can play with both. Can’t wait to try it out at the Detroit Electronic Music Festival this Memorial Day weekend. That should be a blast!
You folks are a big help and I so apprecate it. Thank you.
Patricia
DAH
the CreativeLive workshops http://creativelive.com/courses/
are not sponsored by canon, although maybe laforet is getting some help from this for doing his. i learned of it through uber-connector, photographer chase jarvis. art wolfe is doing a workshop, too, not sure who else will participate in this project.
regarding the panasonic GF1 which you own — are you using the “pancake” fixed focal length lens with that, and do you find it a bit too long? the zoom which they sell looks too big, though i haven’t actually seen one of the cams in person.
i’m soooooooo tempted by the GF1. can’t justify a leica, and my canon 5d’s are just monsters if you aren’t on an assignment (and even if you are.)
thanks for responding to my comment above, most appreciated…
a RIO book, wow. guess you’ll be going back there for some period of time, then.
ad shoots, too? good on ya. would be so interesting to see one of your contemporary ads; your old ones i think are on the web somewhere, maybe magnum’s site?
thx
ciao!
patricia – let us know what kind of editing program you decide on. iMovie? final cut pro? final cut express?
hint: buy a couple of 1 TB harddrives, set them up as a RAID. you’re going to accumulate virtual piles of gigabytes of data. $$$$$$$$$$$$
BOB…
i just looked at Oxen twice….a truly thoughtful work….i have a lot more to say, but it is 11:30pm my time and i am no good at this hour….i have not read the text…..started , but i could see it was going to take concentration of the type i do not have late night…i want to read and understand the text before going back to the pictures again because knowing you the kernel or nut of it or the key should i say is in there…this cannot be a rushed perusal…
s
our timing is a bit bad here, because i leave home 10am in the morn to catch my flight to Spain ..which means i really will not honestly be able to give a full written response until, well whenever i can get to it in Madrid….my morning will be spent in panic, because i spent the whole day looking for lost kittens and everything else went to hell…not a very artistic pursuit to be sure…so , your patience appreciated so that i may give full appreciation to your work when the time is right…i am sure you understand…and if you do not, then just forgive!! smiling…
cheers, david
EVA…
had to skip London…now,flying straight to Madrid….i think
DQ..
i shoot maybe one or two ad campaigns per year….just the right amount i think….a couple of the ad shoots in magnumad.com are fairly new..like last year i think….but, the most recent i just have not posted, but will…the last one combining video and stills…..i have a great time with ad shoots..and i do not get hired for this type of work unless the art director is requiring my look…so, they are fun, relatively painless, and they finance all my indiscretions…
PATRICIA
I have been tempted to play with video, and have experimented a little with a 1080p dedicated video camera but it lacks the selective focus that is so cool with the DSLRs with video capability. When I was shooting at the Zulu Nation anniversary in Harlem there was a guy shooting video with a Canon DSLR. I couldn’t tell which one but possibly the 5D Mark IV (not a Canon guy, so just guessing). He had a shoulder mount bracket for stability, a shotgun mic and lighting attached. So I think the results are going to rival anything filmed in a tradition way. The scale of film making has become smaller so maybe it will get into places where still photography has long been able to go.
I loved the Beijing video you shared. I kept watching the video and seeing stills flash by. I think that may be the hard part. Video and still see the world differently. With still we are looking for THE fraction of a second that matters. With video (I don’t know because I am not a film maker) it seems to be a different way of telling the same story. Looking forward to hearing about your experience with it. : )
FRANK
“He had a shoulder mount bracket for stability, a shotgun mic and lighting attached.”
OK, now I’m beginning to get an idea of what might be required to get good quality video. I am starting from the ground up in terms of knowledge about all this. Have never even held a camcorder in my hands, but I figure if I started from scratch when I bought my first DSLR four years ago, I can learn this too! Gotta keep those old brain cells active.
DQ
Yes, you’re reading my mind. I’d already figured I’d need to order a new multi-GB external HD for the 7D…my fourth, not counting my smaller HDs and flash cards. Also gotta clean off my desktop. This baby is going to need LOTS of space!
Regarding editing software, all anyone talks about is Final Cut Pro. That’s probably what I’ll go with. Ah, such a learning curve!
DAVID
Safe travels and have a wonderful time in Spain. Please take and post some pics of the exhibition for us here on Burn. Can’t wait to see those HUGE prints on a wall…
Cheers
Patricia
I have to disagree with the posts suggesting that photo and video should be kept separate. Personally I am very excited about combining the two. They each have their advantages, so why not use the most suitable tools available to communicate your message!? Why not make your content as visually and technically rich as possible!?
Yes, some sacrifices have to be made. We only have one pair of hands and eyes, and can only do one thing at a time. I know I have missed a good still shot as I was shooting video and vice versa, but in my opinion when looking at the bigger picture—-and what can be produced using both formats, I think it is worth it.
From a purely practical standpoint this type of work is fast becoming the major part of my income. The amount of stills work I receive has wained a little in recent months… In contrast the photo/video combination has started to increase… and fast! From my personal experience clients are excited about the use of both still and moving images in a project–and as mentioned previously, the ability to weave interviews into the overall narrative of a story is huge! This is a major part of our business model.
Also, it is worth mentioning that the advent of the tablet device will only fuel further desire for both formats. I honestly believe it is rather short sighted to dismiss this symbiotic paring.
I don’t mean to imply that this is the only way to produce work with the current technologies available, but I do believe this is a valid and powerful combination.
More importantly!!: Congrats BOB!! Enjoyed your work in Visura!!
JAMES
Excellent points. Has made me think about if differently.
PATRICIA
I am not really sure what it takes to get great video out of a DSLR. I have never tried. Please don’t let all the perceived barriers I mentioned get in the way of what you are trying to accomplish. This is what it’s all about, trying something new and finding your own way with it. I guess I don’t really need to tell you that. Just want you to be sure that I would rather encourage than discourage you. I think for now, for myself I am going to focus on still, I haven’t figured that one out yet ; )
BOB B.
Congrats. Don’t read much (except captions) but that was a good one
PATRICIA
Enjoy the video ride. I’ve recently started getting a little up to speed on this side of the biz
with a couple of 5D’s
Here are a couple of sources for info and/or info that you might find useful.
http://www.cinema5d.com
http://kellymooneyminutes.wordpress.com/
http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com
PATRICIA
With Final Cut Studio costing about a thousand bucks a more prudent choice might be Final
Cut Express at $199. I’ve gone this route and should easily satisfy my beginners needs for
quite some time.
For learning you might want to sign up to http://www.lynda.com ($25/month) and get access to their
huge library of video tutorials
BOB
Just finished reading and viewing The Oxen of the Sun. You poetry and prose (read first before viewing) really struck me and gave me a deeper perspective when viewing the photos. Wow, this has got me all mixed up in a good way, an ecstatic way in the spiritual sense. The graphic nature of the black and white images and the Asian imagery evoked brought me to contemplate Lao Tzu:
We look at it but do no see it
We name this “the minute”
We listen to it but do not hear it
We name this “the rarefied”
We touch it but do not hold it
We name this “the level and the smooth”
These three cannot be examined to the limit
Thus they merge together as one
“One” – there is nothing more encompassing above it,
And nothing smaller below it.
Boundless, Formless! It cannot be named,
and returns to a state of no-thing
This is called the formless form,
The substanceless image,
This is called the subtle and indistinct.
Follow it and you won’t see its back;
Greet it and you won’t see its head.
Hold on to the way of the present –
To manage the things of the present,
And to know the ancient beginning.
This is called the beginning of the thread of the Way.
– From Te-Tao Ching translated by Robert Hendricks
Black and white, left and right, right and wrong, one and zero. One and zero the language of computers and also the computer of the mind; the brain. From black and white, on and off come the diversity of all experience. The photo in a way is like this on-off road map. A conceptualized thing represented in two dimensions physically but opening up the dimensions of space and time psychically. This subjective experience of space and time that we call “me” is witnessed by “I”. The “I” that sees “me”. My “me” and your “me” meet in waves of interference like sound or waves in the ocean and create the “we”, our shared experience. You have shared your “me” as seen by your “I” and it has met my “me” and was witnessed by my “I” and created something entirely new, something magical, mysterious and wonderful. This rich subjective experience that is yours alone and that which seems to haunt you in its amorphous and illusive nature has evoked for me a personally rich experience. Together we have experienced something beyond, not a trance-like experience but a trans-experience.
If I interpret correctly you only have sight in one eye, if true do you perceive the physical world in 2-dimensions but interpret it as three in a more profound sense? When I first viewed the photos I saw the two dimensionality of the images, the high contrast black and white, no gray, and graphic quality. I viewed the photos again backwards to forwards with my right (dominant) eye closed. Something truly remarkable happened. The two dimensional images I had just viewed, somehow seemed to take on a 3-dimensional quality and I actually “saw” the images for the first time and marveled at their simplicity and beauty. I don’t really know what to say or how to explain this but it was amazing. I have never looked at photos in this way before. Not in the physical sense (the covering of my dominant eye), but in the psychic sense. My right and dominant eye blocked, innervating my left brain (logic, reason, intellect) effectively blocking it enabled my right brain (the creative, intuitive, magical) to fully engage enabling me to see with a richness and fullness I hadn’t perceived before. Afterward my vision was totally messed-up for a while. It was like there was a black spot where my left eye was. Weird. Please no jokes about smoking up ; ). I am serious!
I don’t know, this may all sound like complete bullshit, but something happened!
All I can say is “Wow”. Congratulations Bob. Bravo! ….Standing ovations! ….Genuflections!….and Salutations!
All the very best.
Frank
DAVID,
I hope your kittens are fine. I see a big discussion here but no time for me to join. I wish I could see you family photos at exhibition because I am still huge impressed by the pictures you showed me and I could only imagine how it looks in print. I hope the exhibition will move somewhere closer.
cheers
IMANTS: Thank you so much!
ADMIN: Thanks. I’ll contact you on that email. : )
DAH: The spirit of Burn is disarmingly beautiful. Wishing you a refreshing break in Spain.
ANTON/PANOS/ALL: What not to love?! Take good care all. xx
DAH: Wondering if the airport will be open with the volcanic ash cloud? What an inconvenience it is for those whose main interest is money that we inhabit a planet that is so incredibly beautiful, natural and occasionally spouts volcanic ash and hot gasses! If you fly above that cloud, please take a photo of it – they say its costing around 300 million dollars a day in lost revenues.
Bob – I came in at the bottom and saw many people congratulating you, so I went exploring until I found out why. Now I add my congratulations. Good job.
David – I hope your kittens are okay, too. Now I have to go exploring some more, and find out why marcin hopes so. I sure hope that his hoping so doesn’t mean that something is wrong.
Bob.. Just looked over your work.. I love how poetic you are..
thanks for your wonderful words as well, which I have to admit, is what I find most beautiful…
Patricia,
I was happy to read that you picked up the new 7D recently. So did I! I got it a couple of weeks ago and have so far been really impressed with it. The cropped sensor issue isn’t really a factor for me and a lot of the time I think it becomes a psychological thing more than anything else, for stills at least. You can have a look at a couple of short videos I shot with the 7D since I got it here ->
They’re nothing too serious at the moment, just experimental while I get used to using video.
I tend to side with James C that we should be embracing video but I think we (photographers) should only do it if we really want to and use it if it really enhances our work/reporting. It’s a personal choice for all. On a day-to-day level for photogs who are trying to earn a living at the moment, I think video offers another channel for work and a way to stay afloat and keep work going. That can’t be a bad thing.
Best,
Sean
“For everything you have missed, you have gained something else, and for everything you gain, you lose something else.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson (American Poet, Lecturer and Essayist, 1803-1882)
SEAN,
Good to hear from you…. I was not aware your China desertificaion essay had been published in National Geographic… Looks great! Hope you are doing well. It is inspirational to see your long term commitment to this story…Quite a long way since you won the first EPF nearly 3 years ago… Hope we get to see each other sometimes….
TO ALL-
I was aware of this photographer and had seen some of his pictures before, but I have rediscovered the work of Tomaszewski on his site. Those of you who are not familiar with his work should check the work on the gypsies as well as “Hades”. Such a great photographer really!
http://www.tomasztomaszewski.com/gallery.html
Sunny day in Belgium… Blue sky…Kids playing in the garden… What’s not to love CIVI…Let’s get out….
Cheers,
Eric
Special playlist for PANOS from an old mate of mine. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJHWYK-KXYA&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdi_KiAgmQ4
ERICOOOOO,
I am wearing my skin…and I am coming out …looking for my sun…
JOHNG,
yacrazy…wake up PANOS…music …aha
BURNIANS,
I miss many of you…where are you …KATIEEEEEEEEEE …what is your 10-20???
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
James Chance:
Is this about a mainstream trend in the market and technology that is imposing (or offering a new opportunity, both views possible I’m not sure) as online media business is going wild with video? Is this trend being discussed from the photographer point of view?
Cheers…
I like taking video and stills together on the same shoot. I have a hard time doing both. One day shooting for DAH’s loft workshop in Washington Heights where I was staying I did my favorite video work. I was working the street shooting the Dominican community when a young man came running by and threw a machete down on the sidewalk in front of the store I was in. Then along come two young men helping a third by holding him up so he could get away from the police. He had a slice out of his butt.
Then there was a commotion at the street corner and I saw the ambulance scene helping another man who had a bad cut on his hand. I was shooting video the whole time and some stills. I was using video on my Canon point and shoot. One is an interview of a woman about her response to the event and she said she was glad she didn’t live there “..no more.”
What really interests me of late is audio of the scenes depicted in stills. One of the very best I’ve seen is Erica M.’s Brooklyn neighborhood essay. It was fascinating to me. The audio gave it her piece such life.
I am hoping I can do audio with the essays this summer. I have the new Canon S90 and I love its video quality and it shoots stills in RAW/Jpeg. Amazing camera. It is my undercover camera.
Good luck with the new camera Patricia. I had not even heard of a 7D till your post. I am going to look it up. Good night all; I am dealing with a rat in my house. He is managing to avoid capture and he was very bold tonight. In my room, that rat. That is one reason I am still awake……
Patricia:
“Why do you want to throw it out the window? What problems are you having with the 7D?”
nonono, not having problems with the 7D, I don’t have one, just having problems with my new digi camera, but the problem isn’t really the cam, to be honest, it’s ME that should take the jump.. I’m so not into digital, processing files on the computer etc., but I guess I can learn it..
Ok, sun is out again in Istanbul, off for another walk..
LEE,
go for the rat trap with peanut butter…look for the droppings…Do not touch them with bare hands and wash thoroughly after handling traps…
…if you can’t find them…just remember…they are just trying to avoid you …:)))
P.S Maybe they are looking for MR.HARVEY’S kittens …oime…what a small Universe…
Wish You Luck
kittens all fine…mother hid them before and after we took to vet for eye infections…hid one in the door of my truck..so fast…so one little baby was in the map pocket of the door all day, with me opening and closing the door all day and trying like hell to figure out why i put four kittens in a box into the car and only had three kittens by the time i got to the vet….searched the car (i thought), searched the house, and just could not imagine where kitten number four could possibly be…after back home, she hid all of them again..lotsa hiding places in my house….anyway, so now mama spayed, eye infections under control and i am off to Spain…
BOB…
so pleased we had a chance to speak by phone last night…i will be able to take a longer look at your provocative Oxen on Visura today during my flight etc …flying is when i get so much of my reading done anyway…
ok, BB running….
cheers, david
EVA
…are you gonna meet PANOS…???
how come …you BURNIANS…bypass your civilian home…oime…
ADMIN,
…can’t find the submitting button…
hiiiihhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiii…I am just kidding…blame the wine and the sun and the spreads…
LEE…
thought i would read one last comment…and yours had me laughing out loud…you are a real real character from the get go….from tough stuff in the hood to a rat in the house ….stand up comedy next?? still laughing…
hugs, david
Thanks for the Update …DAH…all good …you are ready to go…
We got the kittens back…rats, dogs…music…VISURA,NEW YORK TIMES,BURN,…7D,5D,GFI…
everything is in order…drinks,BBQ…all good…!!!
still laughing…
me too…BUT silently…pifffff
keep the windows Open…pifff
CIVILIAN…
wish i could get all the way to Greece and meet you….just gotta gotta meet you….and i will..
ok, really shutting down now….
big hugs, david
aha…sure…MR.HARVEY,
the bar has been raised…oime…gotta open the windows…you never know who might stop by…
VIVA!!!
Lee..is the best-est and cool-est…
Jenny thank u too…u r inspiration to the fullest…
Eva…Istanbul..absorb every minute of this magic cloud you are on..
DAVID :))))…
YES, IT WAS SO GREAT TO TALK :))))..been way way too long, and that is MY fault! :))…anyway, take your time….and a bit of whiskey on the plane flight may help in the reading ))…but the text is, like a button to a shirt, connective: the text, is one form of the same story, the pictures another…my personal odyssey…but, more important to me was our conversation…pictures and essays come and go, but chats are more important…cant wait for a cold one on the porch…so much to catch up on…whatever you think (about Oxen) will be a joy to hear, and thanks so much for going the distance :)))…much love my friend….dont run too much ;)))…have a great exhibition :)))…and man, if there is one thing I understand, it’s chasing lost kittens and that does mean more than all else! :)))…and just know how much i value our chat…meant everyword…as i told, 2009 was crazy, but that kind of madness was necessary to get me to a very good, calm and loving state….you’ll see, yu’ll see :))))…biggest of hugs :))…..as i said, after marina no one on this planet has been more supportive of my journey, my work, and most importantly, my life, even when it was melodramatically wacked …but that’s changed…only the writing is still long, ;)))))…big hugs…go have a great dance at your show tonight!
FRANK ! :))))))))))….well, i am truly humbled and you’ve nailed the whole idea…yes, i am blind in my eye (coates disease) and its always a negotiation…much of what i’ve been trying to write about and explain here and at road trips about my own photography, the way we all see the world, the way we think/remember/twine things together…i have always thought where my prose/poems are often ‘beautiful’ my pictures are often ‘ugly’…and i always need that balance, cause i dont want pictures (my pictures) to be pretty, or actually even real, but i want them to be like physical feelings, the way a felt at a moment…maybe that is why i love others work so much, especially when it’s documentary or when it’s visually beautiful, :))…it kind of offsets digging…Marina used to kid me that when i first starting photographing I made ‘beautiful’ and very cinematic pictures (with framing and lighting and composition) and when i moved to toronot, they became intense and abstract and clausterphobic, all of which is true…in one sense the pictures now reflect more my struggle, post a major eye disease scare 4 years ago, when i almost lost both….I should also tell you, as i told Adriana (the publisher) that the Tao sits by my bed and i have 3 versions (translations) and that book is a singluar influence in mylife :))…and yes, while your interpretation might sound like bullshit to others, i can tell you that your words are exactly what i think about it and most of it….and i think i am almost finished with B/W…once i finish my book (will send another big essay to Burn after May) and then I think im moving back to color……it’s a natural thing…deformity is a difficult thing to live with, or rather, emotional deformity and my b/w work has been mostly about arresting a lifetime of ghosts….but thank you so much and i cant wait to have that drink next week :)))
PETER :)))…THANKS SO MUCH :)))
FROSTfrog: :)))) thanks so much….
CIVI: again, you are the best ! :)))
PS. YES, FRANK, that IS how i see the world…you are the FIRST person to get that…i have very little depth perception but have had to ‘intellectually’ construct it…when i first when blind, i was unable to play tennis or baseball (i always missed hitting the ball) but i learn (the mind is amazing) to fill this out…that is why most of my photos are flat to many or seem never to deal with depth and i enhance that with the way i develop the film…they’re always more graphic, more rendered then photographic…i tend to see how kinds of strange collisions…but watching the pictures, as you did, with an eye close, late at night, might help :)))…i mean, each of us sees the world not only with our eyes but with our heads and hearts and bodies…we CONSTRUCT the world….and my life that has been even more acute, cause when i look at a person directly, if i keep my eyes steady, i only see clearly their right side (as im looking with my left eye), so i have to scan, and that creates all the weird ‘anonymous’ faces (as Eric E spoke about)…but i have such an incredibly physical reaction to people and the world, especially faces (my own childhood haunting)….but, well anyway….enough said, but you’ve got it….now, if more understood, maybe i could sell some pictures and stories and maybe pay for my son’s sneakers :)))>…
ok, running
hugs all
b
Bob – now it is I who is running, but sending another smile your way at the opus!! I spent lots of time with it yesterday (and with Henry H’s work, his way of seeing brings me joy) and I don’t want to piecemeal your work, but will just say..that blimp, that baby, that near xerography, you brothers, those loch nesses :))) !
Lee – try telepathy, no joke , has worked for me – get a live/ no kill trap and assure the critter you’ll release it in the park or somewhere better – and mean it! twice I’ve tried this and twice the critters who avoided the trap looked at me and walked right in. the challenge is the release…DAH you’d really be laughing if you saw my mouse proof suit : )
ALL…
as of today BURN has reached a cool 1,000,000 visits…
now ain’t THAT the news of the day…
rock on…
a
JAMES
I so appreciate your perspective on the blending of stills, video and audio. Actually it was your mm essay here on Burn, “Living With the Dead” that first planted the seed of possibility in my mind.
https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/james-chance-living-with-the-dead/
And a few months later, someone here on Burn posted a link to Maisie Crow’s mm essay, “A Life Alone”
http://www.maisiecrow.com/users/MaisieCrow3057/docs//crow_alone_FINAL.mov
I’ve been hankering to explore the juxtaposition of video/stills/audio ever since. So now’s the time. As Frank suggests, I’m going into this with an open mind and no real idea of where it will take me. All I know is, I am a storyteller at heart — been one in word, image and performance all of my life — and will use any tools I can find to make the story come alive. That, to me, is what multimedia is all about — telling the story.
MARK
Thanks so much for the links to video-related resources. I will check each one out. And special thanks for suggesting Final Cut Express instead of FC Pro. I had no idea the Pro was so expensive. I’ve just ordered the Express and am sure it will do the job for me.
LEE
Wow. I would LOVE to see your video of that adventure among the Dominican community in Brooklyn. You sure were in the right place at the right time! Must have been a bit disconcerting, though. You’ve got guts.
Good luck with the rat problem ;=(
EVA
Happy to hear it isn’t specifically the Canon 7D that’s giving you trouble. Take your time. Any new technology takes getting used to. But maybe it’s not your thing. Film will always be there for you.
SEAN
Great to hear from you! And I am delighted to hear that you also chose the Canon 7D. Helps validate my choice to have a photog of your stature make the same decision as I. Your videos look good. Can’t wait to try time release myself. I already know when and where I want to try it. So cool!
And BIG CONGRATS on having your essay on the desertification of China published in the Water issue of the NatGeo. WOW. I’m going to go out and buy it today. We’re going to be saying we knew you when.
ANTON AND DAVID
WHOOPEE!!!! A million visits to Burn! As they say, if you build it they will come. And come. And come…
Patricia
I knew it…the Universe, yes, the Universe is BURNING …
Thank you ,thank you , thank you …Readers,Photophilosophers,Civilians,Donors,Sponsors,Magnets and Magnums…thank you for your Vision…I am just SPEECHLESS…
P.S I am gonna leave the rest… to the Academians…:)))
1, 000, 000
GOOD STUFF::
MAGNUMAD
http://www.magnumad.com/#at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=0&p=0&a=9
Hey Lee,
that’s not Bruce Gilden’s rat is it?
http://inmotion.magnumphotos.com/essay/rat
He really misses that rat.
Mike.
Rodolfo: I’m not sure I fully understand you question… If you are asking if this shift to tackle both mediums has been pushed upon me by the industry. I would have to say yes, there is an element to this… As Sean mentioned to earn a living as a photographer we have to be able to adapt to a changing industry and comply (in some regard) to current trends. It is obviously a very competitive market.
However, on a more personal note I do embrace the shift towards multimedia storytelling and combining video and have pushed myself to explore this further as the possibilities really excite me. I work with my wife (a former nonprofit communications specialist) to produce multimedia content for foundations nonprofits and commercial clients (this is separate to my freelance photography career). We could only do this work and convey the complex narratives and specific information required through the addition of video.
What is interesting is that “Multimedia” has become such a buzz word in the editorial field, that everybody thinks they need it… or should be doing it. However, there isn’t the infrastructure there to support it at this stage. Initially we hoped to be producing multimedia content for the major publications, but quickly realized that they just can’t pay for what we produce (at least for now). It is a huge amount of work on our end to produce a short presentation, and I expect to be compensated adequately! This forced our move toward the commercial sector where we are starting to do very well. We still produce journalistic content, just not for the mainstream journalistic media. It is interesting that the editorial market has pushed for this change that it ultimately cannot support or utilize to its full potential. I hope this will change as I am passionate about digital storytelling and know it will have a major impact on the industry… I just need to be paid for the work I do.
Does that answer you question/s?
Patricia: With that attitude you just cant go wrong my friend! That’s what it is all about!! :) I’m touched that the “Living with the Dead” piece was so influential! Thank you!! As a “storyteller” these new tools offer such exciting possibilities! Keep an open mind as you say and just have fun!! Experiment!!… the pieces will soon fall into place.
I am more than happy to offer any help as you get your head around dealing with video and editing. I haven’t been spending as much time here (in “dialogue”) these days… so email me if you have any questions My first tip would be to forget about audio for now. Just get used to working with moving images. Good luck! And have fun!!
David: You’re flying today!?… Can you!? My folks have been visiting and were due to fly out Thursday evening. They have been stranded here due to the volcano and aren’t able to leave until Thursday next week!!
PANOS
Thanks for sharing the link. Just a reminder as to why we all flock to be near DAH. Maybe just maybe some of that will rub off on us in some small way or maybe like moths burnt too close to the flame. That light Burns so bright, and sustains so many. If not burnt maybe blinded. Damn life is strange and beautiful.
Thanks so much, James, for your offer of help once I get into this new and — to me — magical world. Yes, I’m intimidated but more excited than anything. Even dreamed last night that I had created a snippet of video on my camera and was guarding it like it was the Crown Jewels. Oh yes, I am READY!
Patricia
Erica M, I tried talking to him, I opened the door wide (even though it was so cold), and you had finally given up and tried to go take a pee and left the door open to the toilet room. I had just set down and there he goes running across the floor. Needless to say I screamed and he disappeared. I had a broom in my hand knocking on the cabinets moving waste baskets and no show. Then he got on the sticky trap by the oatmeal soap he has taken a liking to and screamed and hit the floor. I screamed and ran down the stairs before I even stopped to think. Creeping back up I looked in the bathroom and realized he had gotten himself and the trap under the lip of the cabinet and leveraged himself off of it. There was quite a bit of hair on the trap. Here I am leaving tomorrow for 10 weeks and there is a rat in my room.
Mike, thanks for the Bruce G. link. He is such a character and his photos are almost too much for me. Is this the dude that just walks up and flashes whomever at odd angels on the street?
Have fun DAH. Patricia, I will post the videos at some point so you can see and will link.
James:
Thanks… yes…I’ll put this to rest for a while…
Great images on your web.
Cheers.
Coincidence… the name of the caretaker…. ;)
Strong story.
James Chance,
You have a very grounded philosophy about the current “convergence”.
I really like and appreciate how you are training yourself in preparation
for future demands. Take some time to acquaint yourself with Gail Mooney
and Tom Kelly, another husband/wife team that have produced some very
dramatic work. Paula Lerner is another if you have not done so already.
ASMP has recognized the coming trends and have set Gail and Paula out to discuss this
with programs that are open to all. I want to encourage anyone interested
in staying in the technological mix to consider attending one of the three
multimedia programs that are working their way around the country.
James, keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your perspective on
multimedia.
I have been pretty much ipad(htm etc) or Pc based (flash) ready for a few years now, have a bank on film/still combos sitting on a HD waiting for the right media. Showed short slide show/ music for years, both in gallery situations and the net. Stuff like this can be be put together in about 20 minutes and posted http://www.etrouko.com.au/imants.htm
The Acrobat PDF/video/still/text combination is pretty standard in the commercial presentation world and is entrenched in educational sites, CDs are dead it is easier and more flexible to present online.
What one needs is a large content bank of content to draw from and that best achieved through the collaboration between several people with different areas of expertise. Sure one can produce stuff as an individual but you are still in the game/competition for space with those that share resources.
In short one has to curb ones ego and share
BOB BLACK
Congratulations on your magnum opus publication in VISURA. It looks like a very classy publication and you are in fairly esteemed and illustrious company!
Although I’m not headed to Spain,I have pretty much the same problem as David has in giving the kind of thoughtful reading and response just at this moment that your enormous body of work deserves. I am late on at least two work deadlines and must hit the grind. I did go through the photographs twice and read through the entire text once. I will send you a private email once I have a breathing space to give it more attention. I did at first blush notice fewer typos and emoticons in your text than your output here might have lead one to expect.
Cheers,
Patricia,
Have fun with the 7D. Having really high quality video has opened up my eyes to various possibilities for work. Look forward to seeing yours!
Thanks for the congrats. Unfortunately the desertification story is only in the China issue of Nat Geo this month, so you can only get it here in the People’s Republic! That’s why I did the video. So people outside could see it. It’s a great opportunity to spread the message on this subject though, to the general public in China. The better people understand this issue and its seriousness, the more likely people are to enact change on the issue. We shall see. I just try to do my little part.
Sean
Wow
So much very cool stuff on Burn. Just trying to catch up, busy busy doing my annual Mothers and Daughters portrait stuff. Having fun, and trying to make a buck.
Anyway, you guys are a pretty amazing bunch of folks.
Patricia. I’m inspired to actually find out how to use the video function on my 5d11. Yes, James’ essay was an inspiration and an eye opener, and demonstrasted to me how powerful the video thing is. Who was it recently that posted a link to their video of old time farming in the English coutnryside, done with a Canon g9 or g10 point and shoot. Very powerful stuff. We need more than one lifetime don’t we.
Love y’all, love my life.
I have just watche Masie Crow’s “A life alone”
It brought me to tears. Very few times have still photographs brought me to tears. Video and still is a powerful combo.
Some good multimedia reference here
http://www.fotofestival-hannover.de/multimedia.html?&L=1
David –
Glad the kittens are okay. I have been debating what book to put together at your workshop – should I make it to it. I have been leaning toward an essay that I shot on my brother after he broke his neck in a motorcycle accident and paralyzed himself. The final shots to that essay happened at and just after his funeral, 23 years ago. Our theme, when he and I set out to do the essay, was to document his progress back to his feet and then to end with him walking, but that proved to be such a goddamned lie that I just stuck the negatives aside, unprinted and never looked at them again just recently. It’s really a pretty strong essay. Although it was a lie, its also pretty damned honest.
But… in 2001, a black cat that was born into my hands eight years earlier disappeared on a snowy day, but since I could find no paw prints leading anywhere, I wondered if perhaps an eagle had snatched him. I could not know, though, so I searched and searched and searched and searched for that cat. Over the next ten weeks, until I rescued another black cat headed for euthanasia (who regularly appears on my blog), I went on one of the strangest, darkest, journeys of my entire life. That journey took me across the Yukon River into the Arctic, then down to Santa Barbara to do a show, across the desert to Las Vegas, onto Zion park, and then to the home of my parents in a Salt Lake suburb, who had begun their serious and miserable descent toward death and then to Missoula, Montana, where I had lived as a child, then to Tacoma, Washington, where I had another show and then finally back home to Wasilla, where I rescued the cat.
After reading your tweet and now your good news, it suddenly occurred to me that I might make that cat and that journey the subject of that book – should I make it to your class.
I don’t know. Maybe. Right now, I’m too damn broke to buy a hamburger, let alone make it to your class, but, as you know, when you are a freelancer, the economic situation can change overnight – and I have applied for a grant that could take me to your workshop. So I am hoping.
Mark, thanks for posting the link to the nomineees for the Mulimedia Award at the Lumix Festival for Young Photographers. Our very own Sean Gallagher’s work on the Desertification of China is shown there, as is Maisie Crow’s “A Life Alone,” and a finalist for the EPF 2009, Jenn Ackermann’s “Trapped: Mental Illness in America’s Prisons.”
Congrats to all!
Patricia
As an aside, for those of you who have so kindly expressed interest in my project on gay marriage, I have posted a tight edit on my website. If you click on “Just Another Married Couple” under Portfolios, you can see it. To read the introduction, click on “Info” under the cover photo. My website URL is
http://www.patricialaydorsey.com
Your feedback is always welcome…
Patricia
Patricia,
Just looked over your edit from ‘Just another couple’
Overall, I like the set but was left ‘wanting’ a little more.
The edit,as presented, captures pretty typical moments,many which we are accustomed to seeing in countless
Daily Life type stories and, for my taste, need a little something extra to separate you from the pack.
In your essay, “Falling into place” a number of your images also captured fairly mundane moments
of daily life but I felt you did a better job of thinking outside the box and presented us with
quirkier compositions and unusual angles that helped keep me engaged.
Just one opinion and, hopefully, a constructive one.
POMARAAAAA… what are you “cooking”, blue angel???:)))
SIDNEY,
if you can’t beat the deadline…then, who can do it…I count on you :)))
SEAN,
we can’t act if we don’t know…keep us informed…more money are coming your way…
MTOMALTY,
keep the place…constructive…!!!
JAMESC,
you have a grounded philosophy…according to PAUL…aha…!!!
FROSTFROG,
come over… i am cooking fresh beans…with goat cheese…
your lost black cat is playing cards with some loved ones Up there…
they are all smiling…why not???
OURPATRICIA,
the number one photo …is mine…just from another place!!!
LEE,
oime…yes, you are something…:)))
as GORDON…says…”Love y’all, love my life.”
Panos:
enjoying every minute here.. odd people over here thought, working at midnight, and by working I mean construction work on the house in front of our window.. found the sister of your Athene’s kitten, here:
http://www.slowemotion.it/micio sul tetto che scotta.jpg
Civi: come on over here, it’s not far away!
Patricia: definitely film for me, that’s one thing I’ve learnt the last days, if not else for not being able to look at the pics righ away.. slow is better for me!
Will leave all essays to look at for when I’m back home..
Love the composition, the color, the capture of every day moments. I keep expecting something dramatic to happen; I hope you get to spend another period of time with them so that more will be reveal. It is like peeling an onion.
Civi, what is olme stand for?
PANOS: What a compliment! There are so many inspirational people on here. You are also an inspiration as is DAH to so many including who knows how many photographers and students around the world. Lovely comment though, thanks so much! : )
PATRICIA: I hope you managed to find someone to help you with Final Cut or have a good manual cos I’ve been really struggling to figure it out without either. It’s NOT easy at all. There are some good tutorials on the web that help – did you check them out? I’ve still not got very far with it. Wising you good luck and with the project on gay marriage!
LEE: I’d really LOVE to see some images of you and that rat! Imagine doing a short piece with time lapse photography over a few days – late in the evening perhaps? You’d brighten up the day for so many with that and if you have any free time right now, could have even have it ready for when DAH gets back! A ‘Man-Nature’ action/interaction story!!! But, if you were interested, would holding onto the rat for a few more days and photographing your interactions be unfair to either you or the rat? I guess that’s important. I would never have thought of trying telepathy to shift it somewhere else but know that Erica has skills in that area. Since we cannot separate ourselves from what we see and create through our perspective/vision, perhaps to see more photographers actually in their work would be a good thing?
Love to all,
Jenny
PS Still no news from Slideroom or response from admin, but there’s a big queue on there so hats off to those responding to all the enquiries. Phew!
Patricia, Jenny…
You might want to have a look at MediaStorm’s very useful page on Final Cut resources on the web… http://mediastorm.org/blog/?p=1620 …especially their free PDFs, which are great for getting started.
Best,
Sean
PATRICIA…
Mark Tomalty and Lee Guthrie sum it up exactly ….there just has to be more to their lives that lends itself to an essay……not other events or daily action , but just something more revealing or provocative or surprising or ??…
now it falls into the category of “a day in the life of..” …. not where you want to go i think…
so i must ask , what exactly are you trying to say about this couple? or, where do you want this to take you as a photographer?? your title Just Another Married Couple is too too “just another..” with that title i would expect just the opposite OR some truly powerful single images…
from these pictures, i have no idea what the relationship between these two men is other than that they are together doing this and then that…but there is not one revealing suggestion of the actual chemistry between them….
i feel uncomfortable saying this to you because i know how excited you were when you worked on it…but, i just do not know what else to say from the work you linked for us…maybe strong portraits of a variety of gay couples would work if the gay world is your exploration or simply married couples in general from a strong portraiture standpoint could be a jumping off point….
again, shooting a sequence of what anyone goes through in their daily life, unless seriously provocative, is just going to fall flat on any editor desk…perhaps being symbolic on just part of their lives would work…if the gay part is what interests you, then make it really gay…shaving, playing with a pet, etc. is a process a catalog, but not an essay or even a picture story….
i know where you are with Falling Into Place…a seriously brilliant piece….to move from there is your single biggest challenge as a photographer….mirrors is too much of a gimmick or photo exercise for me and most likely for others as well…”Just Another…” could have further ramifications and maybe going back will spark another aspect…but, most likely something else right in your neighborhood , right in front of your face, is going to take you to your next level….
i am sure there will be other opinions…get all that you can from wherever you can…but i am sure that most honest opinions will be somewhere near this one…
you are an artist first and foremost Patricia…take that artist in you and really let it shine….frankly i would forget the photo-j approach if i were you….imo, go strong single iconic photographs..either really loose or really formal….no matter…..they will tie….simply go all Patricia all the way…
cheers, hugs, david
Patricia, just a quick one: Home is safe ground, go where cultures really “clash”. The church choir…the…
SEAN: Okay! Great! Thanks so much! : )
PATRICIA. I agree with what David says above. I bit my tongue because I knew I couldnt say what I wanted to half as well as he has. Its a very good, honest, critique and there are many positives in it.
ON ANOTHER NOTE. Final Cut…I have been using it in anger for a long time now(in the real world) and I will more than happily skype with you, and walk you through the basics to get you up and running. I would suggest FCP express to get started though, you wont need the full studio for a little while yet and it can be distracting having so many extra toys to play with. Anyways, skype or email me and I will sort you out if you like.
JOHN
DAH: : ) !!!
DAH: One of the many, many things I remember from your workshop those years ago is that identifying interesting characters and waiting for when they interact with others, can help in getting an interesting image ‘on location’. If the photographer themselves is an interesting character and happens to be in an interesting location, could this not result in interesting images? Clearly not something everyone should do. I was in a playful mood when I thought of it.
By the way, did you post a picture of the kittens or you/with kittens? This and the earlier thought are not connected by the way – although could be interpreted that way. By the way, I’ve not heard from Slideroom…
David: now that you landed here in Madrid, do you know your schedule for the next days? I really want to see you, but my own schedule is pretty tight. However I’m sure we can arrange something. Please let me know. You have a number where I can call you?
Hope to see you
Jorge
Regarding the Ken Burns Specials, ummm, I mean multimedia, I don’t mean to be a naysayer, I’m not saying it’s impossible, but there are a few aspects people all too often fail to consider.
First, the moving image is not some new art form that was born with the digital slr’s. Its history goes back almost as far as that of the still image. Very smart, creative and talented people have built up an enormous body of work in which they have explored every (so far) conceivable aspect of the form. The moving image is not a trivial thing to learn. Understanding aperture and shutter speed is part of the necessary foundation, but there’s a lot more to it than that. I wouldn’t say that people starting out without a serious education in film study will find themselves reinventing the wheel, no, it’s more like they will find themselves reinventing the supercomputer. The challenges, both technical and artistic are very much different than they are for still photography. The path is well-mapped but still incredibly difficult. Without help, it’s unlikely you’ll get very far very fast.
Second, next time you watch a Ken Burns Special, ummm I mean multimedia piece, on PBS, take a look at the credits. On the most simple production, you will find that at least four or five people worked on it. It’s much more likely to be at least 30. Producing moving images is not typically a one person job. It consists of many jobs, grip work, lighting, directing, editing, audio, production, as well as camera work, all of which are highly specialized. Or more close to home, note that Vincent Laforet uses a professional crew and well-stocked studio to produce those Canon videos. One person can do it, but it’s rare that one person will be highly skilled at every aspect of the production and it will suffer in the areas that are lacking. That, and the fact that so many people are necessary to produce a simple piece also demonstrates the ridiculous amounts of time it takes to successfully produce quality moving images. If you just consider Final Cut Pro, it is a complicated piece of software that takes countless hours of practice to master. And mastering the software is just the pre-requisite. Being the world’s greatest FCP operator will not make anyone a good editor. The real skill is in the storytelling aspect. If you ain’t got that, you go nothin. And again, there are countless lessons that have been learned and without serious training you will have to learn them all anew. And on a more mundane level, do you have any idea how long it takes to render 3 minutes of hi-def video on a consumer Mac? If not, you will be unpleasantly surprised.
Third, the necessary trinkets to produce video are much more expensive and extensive than what’s necessary to produce still photography. If you don’t have enough money to throw all you want down the still photography money hole, you might not want to get started throwing cash down the much deeper moving image money hole.
When a still photographer contemplates doing a Ken Burns Special or, more easily achievable, a nightly news report with still photos, he or she needs not only to figure out the functional role of video in the piece, but to be able to realistically assess the technical and time-related difficulties. And then what do you end up with? Most likely degraded still photography in a tired old moving image format.
Again, I’m not saying that it can’t be done or that anyone shouldn’t try, just advising people make a realistic assessment of the challenges before wasting too much money. I’d start by doing a little project in IMovie using the cheapest video source available before getting in too deep. That will provide a clue. If that works, then it might be worth the effort. If not, throwing money at the problem most likely won’t help.
hi david
sorry to takin your time , but you offer me to publish my short story ,, la fiesta,, here in burn like 6 month ago. i write you but nothing hapening. probably my misteke. i think my story was bad writhing and not enough text. like you can
see i have problem with english and mekes me dificul to wright in english.
tell me the offer is stil valid? i prepare text and photographs.
sorry one more time .
un saludo enjoy in madrid
la fiesta http://nevengrujic.blogspot.com/2010/03/la-fiesta.html
MARK, LEE AND JOHN
Thank you so much for your honest feedback on my gay marriage piece. It’s always important to get objective opinions from people whose opinions you value, as I do yours. I see what you’re saying and have to agree, artistically speaking. But I’m hoping this work could still be used in some non-photographic venues as a way of showing that gay couuples don’t have cloven hooves and devil’s ears, as too many “religious” leaders suggest. That really was my intent, after all: just to show that gay married couples are pretty much like everybody else.
Patricia
JOHN
Thanks for the offer to give me a Skyped introduction to the basics of Final Cut Pro. Actually I’ve already ordered Final Cut Express because Pro is way too dear for my budget. I’ll definitely be taking you up on your kind offer after I’ve received my camera and software and have gotten a bit familiar with them. Besides, I’d love to meet you “in person” anyway!
Patricia
DAVID
You are a master at saying it like you see it, but in a way that pushes your students to try to find their own way, their own UNIQUE way as a photographer. That’s what I get from your critique, a critique I did not expect to find here today, seeing as how you’re in Spain, for God’s sake! How you ever found the time to even look at my link, much less give me such a thoughtful, detailed critique is beyond me. I really am grateful to you, David.
Yes, it hurts. Yes, it makes me doubt myself and my abilities and judgement as a photographer. But that’s OK. That’s obviously where I need to be. I don’t want Falling Into Place to be my “mountaintop” experience as a photographer. Hell, I don’t want to hit my peak at the start and then flounder around for the rest of my photographic life! I want to keep the momentum going. I want to improve, to, as you put it, go to the “next level”…whatever that might be.
So I’ll take your advice to heart. Especially when you say, “you are an artist first and foremost Patricia…take that artist in you and really let it shine….frankly i would forget the photo-j approach if i were you….imo, go strong single iconic photographs..either really loose or really formal….no matter…..they will tie….simply go all Patricia all the way…”
That resonates in me. And I’m happy that I’ll have a new camera/lens with a super capacity for taking still shots as well as giving me some new artistic avenues to explore. It feels like starting over fresh. That’s good. Don’t worry, I’m not giving up. Hey, remember our favorite childhood book? “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.” Well, the day wll come when I’ll be saying, “I thought I could, I thought I could, I thought I could.” Just watch me!
with love & gratitude
Patricia
Patricia, I remember you writing that you were editing for a storytelling essay, leaving out strong pictures in favor of the flow of the esay.. perhaps going through your pictures again, taking those strong ones, forgetting about the flow would change ‘it’? If I remember wrong, just forget this..
Patricia there is no harm in your first major piece being one of your best, people flounder without that peak……… things will come again in time. My guess is that you didn’t have anything to really say and were looking for something you never found.
JORGE PRAT…
i am staying Hotel Agumar, Paseo de le Reina Cristina….near Atocha…text me on my U.S. phone…202 413-1137…..going out now…playing tourist this afternoon…Plaza del Sol, Mayor etc…Mike Courvoisier, who printed the show, is with me and has never been to Madrid, so showing him around a bit…join us….
have totally free day also on wednesday…and most nights hanging with EFTI students etc, but you can be with us..opening friday night
Patricia
I can appreciate some of the comments on “just another married couple”.
However all along, I think your intent has been to show just that, that this is just another married couple. I think the essay is successful in that respect.
I have been thinking about this, and yes, the overall feeling here is very day in the life. But isn’t that what you set out to depict? As I look at these photos again, I see things I missed the first time, subtle things, quietly stated things, like your hosts reflected in the mirror at the dinner party. The partner in the background in bed in the toothbrush picture. Yes, everyday things, moments we all recognise, ordinary, normal, day to day.
Now, I can imagine some other photographs in my mind if this were my project. Perhaps a stronger suggestion of intimacy. I would also love a portrait, with the couple gazing out of the picture at me..eye contact. But this is not my project.
Do you think you achived what you set out to do and what you wanted to say? Is the message any more complicated that “these are just regular decent people doing their best? You have high hopes for this project and beleive it is important. This is a great start.
PATRICIA,
What a great response to David’s push!!! You are an inspiration for us all! It is not always easy to find your voice and after having done such an intense and personal piece of work like “Falling into Place”, it is going to be even more difficult to re-engage onto another topic…. Although different, I have had a similar feeling and initial struggle… after my own intense project, things just seemed somewhat dull all around for a while… it is only starting to come back in a away so, Pat, don’t over think it…. just let your creative juice go and relax, have fun and play like you can and things will come together…
Hope it is as sunny in Detroit as in Belgium…we just had the best week-end of the year…
no photos I am afraid, but a great bike ride with the kids…
Take care.
Eric
Patricia,
have you seen Eugene Richard’s piece entitled “Here’s to Love”? Not sure if you’re of the “look at the work of other photographer” school, or the “avoid looking at other photographer’s work” school, but it might be a worth a gander. It’s in his book entitled “The Fat Baby”, your local university library might have it.
Also, one tiny little thing, which may only be an issue for me. Your title slide to the essay is the same as slide #8, and I almost stopped watching the essay when I hit it because I automatically assumed that I’d been through the series and it was starting over. Of course I caught myself, and maybe it’s just because I picked the small coffee mug off the shelf this morning… but just sharing my user experience.
David: thanks! just catch your comment. Where are you right now? I just came back from Thyssen…with family.
Could be on wednesday after 19.30. If not, friday at the opening.
PATRICIA,
We all go down many dead ends in our photography careers, even (and esp), those as good as DAH etc. It’s a matter of just doing the work and then learning from that, as I think you are doing, and moving on. Some “projects” will last a day, week, month, and some a lifetime. Quite possibly “Falling Into Place” is your project that should be continued to explore. I know, it’s tough. I spend most of my time dealing with photos I took 20 years ago, people don’t seem to want me for much more than that. My last major project, on break dancers, I thought was some of my best work to date yet the book pretty much flopped. As photographers we all want to validate ourselves by shooting new work, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out that way and our time is best spent massaging or adding to the really good work already completed.
Part of the problem I see with this piece is that it is nothing but their suburban domestic home life we see. Where do they go to work? Do they have individual lives apart from each other? And in this day and age it really isn’t that unique of a subject. We all know “married” gay men and realize they are “just like us” (and frankly why wouldn’t they be?). The angle is just too broad. And alas, those who don’t know that gay people are normal probably would never see your essay anyway.
DAH’s advice to be an artist first and foremost is the best advice possible. Sometimes we lose scope of our true abilities by wanting to be like somebody else.
Okay, now to go start the process of moving two enormous flat files into my basement studio. Uggh.
Best,
CP
And, oh, it’s amazing to see other’s ups and downs on here as it affects all of our work. Your critique is all of ours critique, if you know what I mean. We all learn from each other. :)
Hey Jenny, It is good to see you on Burn so much of late. No there won’t be a rat series I’m afraid. Came in from the movie last night and he was racing about in the living room and kitchen. Set up a series of traps but he evaded them. Leaving tonight on a jet plane so hopefully my roomies can get him. We left some fruit out (spaced having to clear all food from counters) and he had a lovely repast on banana and papaya. I might consider if I wasn’t leaving tonight and had to gather all my photos on the back up drive i’m taking with me.
Patricia, ever since I first heard your title, Just Another Married Couple, I have stuffed my first response. That is, they are not just another married couple. I have witnessed this from others I know–people with total non acceptance of the concept of two men or two women making a life like “normal married people” (whatever that might be! HA!) to people like yourself who feel they should have all the rights and privileges of heterosexual couples.
Here is what I keep thinking about: in the scene with the guys in the grocery store, I know for a fact that somewhere lurking in the background was another patron with his or her opinion of their alliance stamped all over their face. And at the party where the two guys are kissing–it seems in every gay gathering there is always that one guest of a guest who doesn’t approve and whose discomfort is almost palpable.
So although your wish is to present what you feel is true–that these two gay men who you have known for decades and are quite comfortable with are normal in the world of relationships as America and many other countries and cultures defines it–they are in fact NOT just another married couple. And I am going to be very honest here about my feelings as well. I have struggled with the concept myself. Not that they don’t deserve the same rights as every other American afforded in the area of marital rights, but just discomfort at seeing two men kiss for example. I recorded “Milk” and found I had to watch in segments and fast forward through certain scenes as it made me kind of queasy to watch. And I think I am fairly typical in this area.
Last night at the mall I saw two very young girls walking together trying to fit in with their relationship at the local hangout. One was very pretty and girly and the other was a tom boy. They looked to still be in early high school. Those two girls were so uncomfortable with their lives being on display yet they absolutely COULD NOT deny it so were there in some sort of showing their resolve to make their relationship as normal as everyone else. This is the kind of interaction that I feel needs to be captured to really tell the story of marriage/relationships outside the “norm”.
Your images are always amazing and beautiful. They show vulnerability and beauty in situations in life that are common and you make it real for those that view the images. I really believe that to present your essay topic you have to show the bad with the good. How this will all play out will no doubt shock and please you and the rest of us. My opinion: you will have to expand your essay to include other “outside the norm” couples to really give us a good look at the world of “Just Another Married Couple.” Either that or stay with this couple and capture the world’s response to Just Another Married Couple.
Do not lose heart and I know how it feels (the pain) when teacher gives us his honest response to our work. Been there and probably will be again, but without that we would flounder in puddles of mediocrity. And sister, you are not mediocre. Love our discussions of late.
David: Congrats on getting into Europe!!! I realize that things aren’t quite as bad in the south… but damn!! You guys were lucky!!!
Rodolfo: Ahh Rody the caretaker… love that guy!
Paul: Thanks for the suggestions, I hadn’t heard of Gail Mooney and Tom Kelly. Will check them out next. Cheers!
Eva, I finally went back over comments to see who was in Istanbul. That is one of my all time favorite cities. I hope to see your photos posted soonest. Is there a link I have over looked?
CHARLES,
I am not very familiar with your work from 20 years ago but CYPHER is still in a good position on my book shelf and I go back to it often…It is a fine fine book… I guess that there are some topics that are more maintream and others that while great will appeal to fewer..Does not mean that this work was not your best… At least you got published and it looks great :):) I had this discussion with David regarding Lords of the Ring… these days and age, not an easy task to convince a publisher to publish a book like that… if I ever manage to publish it, it would still remain a “flop” in the way you may think hat CYPHER was a flop…what matters is that you are proud of this work, not necessarily the absolute numbers of copies sold :):):)
Cheers,
Eric
All,
“Poland Grieves, but With Few Tears” on Lens blog:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/poland-grieves-but-with-few-tears/
Some great photos by polish photographer Adam Lach. Most photos are from my city Wroclaw.
And my version… well a little bit more ironic.
http://marcinluczkowski.com/news/?p=207
ERIC,
Yes, you have it exactly right. By no means a “flop” in the execution of the work and its place in my development as a photographer. Merely relating to book sales and getting the word out about it and the subject matters perception by the world at large. In one way the subject matter was too “low brow” for the art/photo world and the photos themselves a bit too high brow for the subjects themselves (not many b-boys buy $40 photo books in this day and age of youtube). Had this problem with the grunge pics too, though lately the art world seems to be taking a big interest in rock photography.
Looking forward to seeing some of your skate pics. It’s a subject matter I’ve thought about tackling myself, esp since I used to be a skate rat back in the day. At this point though I feel as if I’ve done the counter youth scene enough and need to push myself to tackle a more “mature” subject. But who knows… part of it is being 46 I’m sure.
Best,
CP
Lee, great city indeed.. not posting pics soonest, will let them sleep for a while.. here just one:
http://www.slowemotion.it/pics/topkapi.jpg
ehm.. perhaps you could use this:
http://www.slowemotion.jpg/pics/micio.jpg
with your rat? ;)
sheesh.. here:
http://www.slowemotion.it/pics/micio.jpg
PATRICIA…
thank you for your response…you are indeed a class act….i knew there would some pain involved when you read my evaluation…and the last thing i ever want to do to anyone is to inflict pain…but i knew too that if i let it slide that eventually you would suffer more…this work was on my mind all day long…and if we had a person to person running conversation i think various resolutions would naturally evolve…it happens of course quite often when i must tell someone what i feel is the truth about their work…in your case on this project there was nothing “bad”, but knowing you as the super achiever that you are, you would want the unvarnished truth…now please know that i do the same thing to myself constantly…mostly i do not live up to my own expectations…so many times when i am very enthusiastic about either a situation or a project and the result is somehow just not there, i realize i just did not do it…even now as i hang 15 prints in a show , i already know that there are three of them i will never print again…and i have gone this far…shooting, editing, and the expense of printing and shipping, but alas those three just do not work in the long run…out they will go….i think i have told you before that i have even thrown out a whole year of work because despite my energy and my enthusiasm in the cold light of day it simply did not match my highest levels…
and this is where you are in relationship to Falling Into Place…you have created a very high level…this will not be your only mountaintop, but it will always be harder for you to get beyond that level than it was to get there in the first place…this is just the nature of all excellence….so, the gay couple was not a failure, it just is not on the same high level as Falling Into Place…actually, i am quite certain you see that…again, to parallel, most of what i do does not match my highest levels either….do i see it as failure? no , i see it for what it is…a good effort, perhaps useful for sure…even doing what i set out to do, yet still not the very best…in a lifetime none of us can produce upper level work all the time….nobody ever has, nobody ever will….if the “mountaintop” were achievable all the time or even most of the time, then it would of course not be a mountaintop at all…i am sure it is probably impossible for very many artists to reach their own mountaintop level more than about three times in a lifetime…at least, not likely…..
i can imagine in my own mind where you can go with this…but, i want you to figure it out….you surely will…i might throw in little hints from time to time, but best if you discover….mentoring is definitely not telling people what to do….it is just teasing them enough, perhaps cajoling them enough, and getting them to think enough so that they go way beyond my wildest expectations…in your case, i expect to be looking up very high….
cheers, hugs, david
My files,the studio the grey matter are scattered with dead ends, miss hits and the down right shockers what was I thinking stuff………. there are those failures that grind one for a day or two…….clean up/garage sales are common here
………..but there is the stuff that well works both conceptually and visually.
Hi Patricia.
Please forgive me. I my post was left in a hurry, but I kept wondering about this. Writing this probably will help me more that will help you…
So here it goes:
I feel that (as many pointed out) your story may be falling into … invisibility… due to an excess of contextualization images… Images work in their own place, thus the message they convey becomes much more powerful within a certain level of intrigue or tension. Sometimes we forget that images are to be “decoded” by others, some may share your view and some may not… and they still need to be challenged by your vision.
“(…) showing that gay couples don’t have cloven hooves and devil’s ears, as too many “religious” leaders suggest.” Your images NEED to challenge THIS position (amongst others) by creating images in this line… or the other images will tend to become invisible. I believe that one punching up is the one of the church choir….It’s true it will need support to be contextualized within the body of the story. I guess you just have too many of those peaceful indoors. Some more “cultural” contrast would be great (?).
The kiss at the kitchen: There, you’re about to question values and culture. You’ve created tension. Your message about gay marriage – showing a normal everyday life scene with people without “cloven hooves and devil’s ears” has something more to it… it’s challenging, intriguing… And will make a difference (?)
Ok… Hope It makes sense. I just talked about what you already have… needs some contrast.
I keep repeating myself… sorry.
Patricia :)))
As I told you earlier today, this will be quick as I’m a bit overwhelmed with emails and inquiries after the publication of “Oxen”, but i wanted to add my 2 cents as promised. :))
First of all, I think it’s terrific that you see others critique for what it is. As I told you, David’s critique is a fair and honest and loving one, cause you’d be hard pressed to find a more faithful supporter of your work and life than David. I think the advice and critique you’ve received here by others including Imant’s wonderful take on things, as the insightful words of John and Lee and Mark and Frostfrog and Rodolfo and all the rest, are interesting and you should take them to heart…but just remember, above all, it’s your story and that must be the compass by which you negotiate and plan and shoot this project.
So, for what it’s worth,here’s my take :)))
Ok, I actually agree with some of what Lee has suggested to you. This story (imho) should NOT be just another advertisement, a feel-good story. Who needs that Patricia. The truth is that if this couple is ‘just another couple’ i don’t see it yet. Because as I tried to point out with Ellie Brown’s story ‘relationship’ there is NOT ENOUGH of reality for me. I mean this is all TOO NICE :))…I mean: where is the pain, where is the suffering, where is the struggle. We get a lot of ‘nice’ and ‘warm’ feelings in this story, but I want more. I want LOVE and STRUGGLE! As you know, life is all that. The greatest stories for me contain both: the joy and the sorrow that a life lived entails. Surely, their story, especially since they seem like such kind and gentle souls, MUST contain sorrow and struggle: the sorrow of being judged by others, the sorrow of dealing with being a married couple in a nation that generally rejects that, being a gay couple in a nation that celebrates, often, the virtues of heterosexual religiosity. But more than this, for me, i think this story is not so much about their homosexuality but about their life, their love. that is what I want. That is what will make this, for me.
I want visual tension, i want oddity, i want the unusual moments. What i loved so much about Falling was that it was not a ‘feel good’ story so much as an honest story of a woman struggling and surviving and that included all the pain, including the pain of marriage and the future separation (death, failing bodies, etc). What makes love extraordinary is not just the happy parties and the kisses in the kitchen but the struggle. Surely this couple has had to struggle more than many others for their marriage, by definition, MUST BE PUBLIC. How could it not, especially in the USA. And yet, there are some gorgeous, and strange, and wonderful photographs. My favorite photograph is Number 12, where the one gentleman is drying himself off. THIS is what i am talking about. There is both an incredible intimacy to this photograph and a weird, lynchian feeling: the naked man, the rounded belly, the light outside, the perfectly curated garden…it’s both beautiful, intimate and strange…..it’s that visual tension that i want….as well as with this relationship….way to many shots of the bed/bedroom…ironically, they didnt feel intimate, not as intimate as that shot in the garden, or the shot where they’re looking out the front door #1….but what i really want Patricia is not just happy pictures, ….but this is where time is involved….in order to showcase their marriage and their life, it needs time…time, of seasons…remember, falling and as it evolved over the seasons….through your own happiness, and your depression about the project…even the complexity of your own life/marriage ended up into Falling…and that’s because of time :)))
So, i think whatever it is you wish to say it is important that you NOT say it with one couple. in other words, if you want to prove to people that this wonderful and loving couple should be accepted by others, than you need to show that they in fact are like everyone else: happy and sad, filled with triumph and confusion….and the one thing that I have always loved about you and what gives you a special place at the table is YOU…you are disarmingly loving and people let you into their lives, feel open and safe with you and this grants you amazing access and it allows you the great blessing of having people show all of themselves to you….but in the end, it is your vision and your project and what you want to say :)))…i guess it is that a person so filled with love and light as you simply wish to share the love of others….but the problem with many people who judge others, or judge couples such as this, is that demonize and dehumanize….so, give us all that humanity: not shaving or bbq’s, but laughter and tears….fear and loss….love and smiles….in other words, the same visual and emotional complexity you gave us with falling :))))…..
not to prove a point, but to show a life :)))
make sense….
and if it is any consolation, i have never (not once) did a project that i didnt thing was a disappointment…even Oxen disappoints me, and so what do i do, work harder, shoot more, re-think, re-invent, go back to the drawing board…never ever give up…
because i love this maddening life and even through ‘failure’, it aint failure, it’s growth and challenge and love, above all love…
big hugs sister! :))))
bob
Comon Bob disappoints is a harsh word….pisses me off has a better sound to it.
I will write today later catcha……… book two is frantically waving but not drwning
Sorry Bob:
the struggle…is about challenging preconceived ideas…(?)
“What makes love extraordinary is not just the happy parties and the kisses in the kitchen but the struggle”
I still feel the kiss image has some impact on the story, probably something that people take for granted… ahh…and yes I feel it will have some effect on the audience. hmmm.
In the end, your words make sense…
Eva, I love the cat on the roof with the sea birds. So identify with those birds in that city. The cat looks like he could use a good meal. Well, leaving home with the rat on the loose but roomies on it.
Imants ;))))))))))…yea, that is way too gentle ;)))…everything i make always pisses me off….ask marina, the whole weekend, i was like ‘my work sucks, i’m so tired of it, it’s garbage, gotta do better/stronger/more challenging ;)))))))…true :)))))….circles my man, circles ;)))
Rodolfo:…:))
i guess, for me, it’s not, only because i live in a city that is incredibly vibrant and open, i have friends who are same-sex couple, friends who are married, friends with hiv, friends who have kids, etc…and it’s been part of my life since childhood, so that kind of kiss does not challenge me and i dont think that is the challenge: the challenge is to prove to bigoted folk (if that’s Sister Patricia’s goal) is that this couple is like all couples….filled with complexity that goes beyond their sexuality, but gets at the heart of the complexity of their lives…in others words, just like us….though, i agree with Lee, that the difficulty of being a same sex couple who’ve been together for a long long time in america possess challenges and includes challenges…maybe that is where Patricia’s new interest in video lay…to couple interview/vid with the images she has made and will make….a kiss between them, for sure, just as a fight or sadness, is of course an ingredient…the image of the new men in bed together at the end works much more for me than the med-distance shot of two strangers kissing at a dinner party….like i said, for me, the key is about life’s complexity….but as I would remind Patricia, her talent and her extraordinary quality as a person and as a photographer is the light and love she radiates and this allows her to get close to people….and i know she has the vision to make it sing…
Patricia: forgot to add, the pics i dig from your edit: #1, 2 (i like the dog growling at the vacuum and th dog portrait on the back wall), 5 (for it’s intimacy, more than as a photograph), #12 (easily my favorite picture), 16 (’cause their in the world there singing with others) and 20 (for it’s intimacy and tenderness and truth: one wants to snuggle, one wants to read, a scenario i know well ;)))))))) )…
in the end, u must stick to your vision and fight for it, tooth and nail…cause it’s your baby :)))
hugs
running
b
Patricia,
I am leaving town in the morning. Have to disconnect and pack my laptop without time to read what everyone has said so far, even can’t read what you have said (will catch up in a few days) but just wanted to very quickly say…you have some very good images there. No need to consider the feedback as a need for you to “redo” or start from scratch. Just take the best of what is there and keep going.
KEEP GOING has been a mantra of sorts for me lately. You certainly know about putting one foot in front of the other. I’m sure you will ultimately have a great body of work. Thanks for sharing your process!
ALL
My goodness, what a tight, loving, honest community! How can I thank you all…for your honest critiques, compassion, support, suggestions, understanding, and just simply for your time, which is something that is a limited resource for us all. And David, your most recent post certainly helps me put this setback of mine in perspective. I guess it just comes with the territory. The problem with starting out strong is that you come to expect things to pretty much work out as you planned/hoped/expected. Well, it doesn’t always work that way, does it? Now I know.
Regarding where I go from here, I need to put this project aside, for now anyway, and simply take pictures…LOTS of pictures. Nothing planned, no expectations or agendas. I’m going to forget “projects” — at least for now — and simply play with my new camera. It should arrive in a week or two. Perfect timing! That should give me time to process what has happened here so I can start off fresh and free.
Yes, today was hard. Real hard. But necessary. And an important building block for the future. I’ve learned a lot and will take this new awareness to my next work. Again, I am deeply grateful to you all.
hugs
Patricia
Hi Patricia..
Love the way you often just give a glimpse in your images, but include so many other elements that slowly reveal themselves as ones eye moves through the image.
Its the glimpse that works for me in many of your images.
thanks for putting up your link.
take care.
Peter
Marcin..
this tragity is beyond words, beyond comprehension. To lose so many, and so many of Polands leaders. And so much more profound falling on that day that represents a past tragity so huge its also difficult to comprehend even in WW2 context.
I’m so sorry for this loss.
sincerely.
Peter.
PATRICIA: I was going to read lots of comments on here today but the moment I opened up the page, your last comment came up. I have not read what came before and what you wrote spoke to me on a deep level. You are a beautiful and precious spirit in this world. May you enjoy every moment exploring with your new camera!
DAH: I have been embroiled in a very heated discussion over recent days with several photojournalists concerning a piece of work that has raised serious questions concerning ethics and working practise in the field. It has NOT been a pleasant exchange and I have been losing sleep over it. It is on-going.
I have suggested that perhaps the best way forward would be for the piece to be aired on Burn Magazine if the curator and editor are interested and feel it would be valuable. What is especially interesting about it is that it concerns photographers who are “direct activists”. I do believe this is an excellent move forward in the industry and am already involved in similar projects myself on a small scale, but I am concerned that there exist those who can exploit NGOs in developing countries to enhance their careers…
LEE: Very nice to meet you.
Ouaouuuuuuuuuuu…can you feel it BURNIANS…???
Live workshop…in front of you…on your screens…dancing words…messages…
amazing stuff…info…oh…please, consider yourselves …blessed…
Thank you MR.HARVEY…and ANTON and KERRY and MIKEC and so many that I don’t know their names and I will never have the pleasure to meet them BUT oime…what a Collaboration
“Your neighbor’s vision is as true for him as your own vision is true for you.”
Miguel de Unamuno (Spanish Author and Philosopher, 1864-1936)
Go figure…
JENNY LYNN WALKER,
keep BURNING…I was looking for you…hmmm…the last year…keep it Up…:)))
LEE,
oime = ahhhh, oh my spirits…oupsieee…
Example: You are in a bar and you have been drinking bubble water…
a nice lady is entering the bar and as you are trying to impress her…a huge “GGGGGrRRR”
is coming out…of your “mouth”…
OIME…
Ok…I don’t feel myself lately…it might be the spring…
The Bar has been raised…
EVA…you Are a Very …caliente BURNIAN…VIVA !!!
DAH: I received the following automated message from Slideroom on: Saturday, 17 April, 2010 16:04
but there is still no response. Any other suggestions?
Ticket #7838: Problem Accessing Slideroom: Please can u help?
Hi ,
Thank you for contacting SlideRoom support.
We respond to tickets within a few hours (9am – 9pm CST).
You can review the status of your request and add additional comments by following this link http://slideroom.zendesk.com/tickets/7838
Your request summary is:
——————————————————————————–
Jenny Lynn Walker, Apr 17 10:04 am (CDT):
Hi there,
I’ve been having some trouble getting into Slideroom. When I enter my email address and password, the following message comes up: “Account not Activated.” The email address is the one I always use and the password I remember. I’m not sure what to do. Can you help?
Best wishes,
Jenny
Patricia,
I like intellectual side of your photography. Yesterday I watched most of your portfolios again, Love when I can see a beautiful mind in art.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/apr/19/bauer-freelance-contracts-row
Bob: Ok…
http://www.inside-magazine.sk/en/buy-online/
inside magazine with our boy vinks epic land issues essay..
snap one up..
jenny,
just click on the link in the email and then you can look at the status of your request… you can add a note there asking why it takes so long to respond.
it is quite unusual as they usually respond almost immediately.
if you do this and then have not heard back from them by tomorrow, please send a message to anton@burnmagazine.org then i’ll take care of it
cheers
a
correction: i just see you have recieved the automated message on april 17… today it is april 19… it has been a weekend too… i’m sure they’ll reply soon!
Thanks David B.
You were faster than me.
i´m astonished it is postage only john..
great stuff..
congrats n hope it leads to a publisher.
Patricia..
It was ‘falling in to place’ which I was commenting on in previous comment. Just went back and checked out a couple more of your folders and the next one that impressed me most was ‘Dualities’. Really like the idea of this one and some of the contrasts, and juxtapositions, and metaphors you’ve found are really nice. This one I feel has much potential. Hopefully you’ve inspired me.
thanks Patricia.
Peter.
Again regarding moving images, another thing I think that still photographers don’t adequately consider is camera movement. Just as a still images nearly always requires a still camera, a moving image is most often enhanced by a moving camera. If you just prop your dslr on a tripod and let the action pass in front of it, you will most often get very boring moving images. Problem is, it’s difficult to move a camera without being all herky jerky. The movement needs to be smooth. One can be innovative, but typically the very least you need is a steady tripod with a good ball head. I recently researched and purchased the absolute least expensive combination that would be minimally adequate and it was about $700. I’m sure professionals wince when they read that. Several thousand is the norm. Steadicams are handy too. A cheap one costs $800. And watch how the big kids do it. They build little railroads and ride around in cranes. Again, one can be innovative, but moving a camera well is very challenging.
MICHAEL
It’s like you’re reading my mind. I just got off the phone from ordering a 3-way pan/tilt Manfrotto head for my tripod. Looks like it will do the trick — at least for starters — and be easy for my gimpy hands to use.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/602409-REG/Manfrotto_391RC2_391RC2_Junior_3_Way_Pan_Tilt.html#features
Yes, there’s lots to consder when going into something new…and lots to buy. But, to my way of thinking, it’s worth every penny to expand my creative options. I’ve known for quite some time that this was where I wanted to go with my imagemaking. And now is the time.
Patricia
JENNY…
photographers as activists is nothing new…i.e. Susan Meiselas and Philip Jones-Griffiths…perhaps the work you mentioned should be on Burn, but you did not say what it was…please be specific….either suggest whomever it is to submit to Burn , or tell us where we should look…
many thanks…
cheers, david
curb the buying do the shootin
IMANTS
Got to do the buying to DO the shooting! Hey, this is the first camera and/or lens I’ve bought since Oct ’07. And this new camera/lens will be my everyday workhorse for stills and video. Sometimes you just got to go ahead and pay some $$$ to push your boundaries. Now is my time…
Patricia
I just bought “Reza War and Peace” This book must weigh 15 pounds. Wonderful work and an amazing life. I was not aware of Reza.
for aspiring Hollywood film makers..
this is what u need…no boring tripod needed…
http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-steady/
thats all u need for your next “Titanic”….
http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-suite/
(too bad money cant buy talent or good ideas either -definitely money can buy motivation though-)
Ha, I don’t believe in magic bullets.
My comments on moving images, btw, aren’t directed at any particular individual. Just part of the ongoing conversation.
Just The Right Bullets:
PATRICIA —
I wouldn’t worry so much about the steadicam aspects of video shooting. You will already be managing the camera from a stable platform, and you can glide forward and backward as the terrain allows. The various devices to steady a handheld video camera are necessary when one is walking — footfalls are rather jarring in video. But you have a different shooting scheme, which could prove to be rather elegant. You have obviously worked out how to make the most of your perspective in still photos — you can do the same in video.
GORDON —
Agree — Reza’s work is stunning. I wish it were better known, with more available online.
GORDON and PRESTON,
Reza has been one of my very favorite journalist photographers for a long time. His work, his life, and his demeanor are all inspiring models.
Sid, Preston,
I got this book on a remainder table at Chapters for $17, original price $75. It was only published a couple of years ago, odd to see it remaindered so soon. It is huge, 11×14″ with decent reproduction.
While at the bookstore also picked up the latest issue of American Photo. Interesting issue, Alehandreo Chaskielberg, Gene Smith, Dslr video gear.
FYI, in addition of course to the EPF, here are two significant grant opportunities for documentary photographers with completed bodies of work in human rights and social justice issues. The second is perhaps worth a look by Kerry P. …
http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/rfp/rfp_item.jhtml?id=290900028
http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/rfp/rfp_item.jhtml?id=290900030
“Yes, it makes me doubt myself and my abilities and judgement as a photographer.”
———————————————————————————-
Patricia, isn’t that what makes us grow? That sense of being uncomfortable forces us to re-evaluate and adapt. Embrace the doubt and use it to nourish your creative vision. Those who don’t doubt themselves become boring, predictable asses.
“Those who don’t doubt themselves become boring, predictable asses.”
Brian, I’m going to print that out and tape it to my computer! Thanks, I needed that ;=)
Patricia
Thought provoking words indeed, Brian.
Brian, thanks for that, needed that too. I struggle with self doubt daily. It is a delicate dance. We must have just enough self doubt to propel us to keep striving, but not enough to paralyze us or make us give up altogether. Just part of what makes us human.
Meanwhile, just before checking in on Burn, I was exploring Miroslav Tichy on the web, after reading about him in the new American Photo (new look for them)
Very fascinating stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg9rTIGtENs&feature=related
also checked out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg9rTIGtENs&feature=related
I mean,we could just spend our entire lives in front of this screen, just so much, so much.
In other news,
This morning, screwed up. Had a lovely portrait session with a mother and daughter on the beach. AMAZING morning, no wind, warm, beautiful light, wonderful mother and daughter having fun, just loving each other. In a fit of stupidity, I decided to try out an odd lens/camera combination that I had not fully tested, a 135mm 2.5 Takumar adapted to my 5d with an ebay adaptor. This adaptor has a chip which gives you a focus confirm beep. I regularly use a 35mm f2 on my Rebel with one of these…anyway.. more than half the shots are front focused about a foot ahead of my subjects, and too soft to use. I’ve got enough to show them, and some nice stuff, but lost some really wonderful moments. GOOD LORD I aught to know better. STUPID STUPID STUPID.
Thats my tale of woe for the day.
Hi David.
Never sure if its the right time to try and make contact with you as you always sound so busy, and in the process of just leaving or arriving, which I don’t want to interrupt. But also, want to make sure I don’t miss the opportunity in speaking with you. I have my Skype connection and listed your name; davidalanharvey, in to my contact address’s. I was not able to set up a Picasa site but I do have my images up on a Photoshelter account, sorted in to folers, which others here recommended as an alternative. So if thats O.K. with you, then I will be ready, given time differences, for your advise. Just wondering how will I know you make contact when you do?
Thanks for your patience David.
Sincerely. Peter.
ANTON: Many thanks for your message. I will do as you suggest.
DAH: I have already suggested to the author that Burn Magazine would be a good place for the piece to aired and discussed. If he has not contacted you, it could be that he doesn’t wish it to be seen in this venue. The piece is not yet fully in the public domain and the author is changing it in response to the discussion which has been over a period of many days on Facebook. Since Facebook is a private domain, I’m not at liberty to share anything other my own comments on there (which I’d be more than happy to do do). The discussion is/has been taking place on Jodi Bieber’s page under 3 different threads. In addition to questions of ethics and practise in the field, the piece also connects with other topics such as ‘the effect of the news industry on Africa and developing nations’ and ‘reporting/documenting with cultural sensitivity’. The whole topic is so big and has fired me up to the core and “it makes me doubt myself and my abilities and judgement as a photographer.” The story concerns human sacrifice in an African country and the exhumation of a young girl by the photographer who, had the story been given more time, would not have had to be dug up from the ground by her parents. I am also told that in pursuit of the same story – information given in exchange for money – that a local man is also now facing a prison term. And this is just the tip of the iceberg…
DAH: By the way, the story/piece is not ‘news’ but could be considered investigative journalism and documentaries have already been made on this topic (i have no idea how many times before).
Apologies for the spelling mistakes in the above and the last line should have been: ‘I have also read that in pursuit of the same story, information given in exchange for money has caused a local man to now be facing a prison term.’
GORDON
If we had a “stupid things I’ve done as a photographer” thread here on Burn, each of us would have stories to tell. As folks have been helping me to see, what we might call “stupid” is more often than not an opportunity to learn and grow. Just think how much more aware of this potential problem you’ll be in the future. And you’re lucky! You ended up with some good shots. I’m sure they’ll be happy and that’s the main thing. Now stop beating yourself up…
Patricia
Glad my dime store wisdom struck a nerve. I’ve found that’s true with any creative medium-photography, sculpture, architecture, life.
PATRICIA, All
Just learned today the HCB also made a number of films (movies) on top of his still photographic career.
Jenny can’t see the point in posting I have secret comment……….
Eva – great shot of the kitten and the seagull.
“…SPAIN was becoming a dream destination not for its beaches and monuments but simply by virtue of the fact it’s one of the few European countries unaffected by the ash cloud drifting across the continent from an Icelandic volcano…”
or maybe because …BURN is there…daha…
no comment…:)))
oh, yeah…EVA…the kitten…you found PANOS …little sister:)))
JENNY…bring it on!!!
MR.VINK…are we rolling??? … QUEST FOR LAND
I am still looking for “lost” BURNIANS…KATIE,JIM,MYGRACIE,AUDREY,KATHARINA…..
if you are out there …I hope you are shooting…
and I hope you are evolving…
Civi: nowhere near. INSIDE Poverty (http://www.inside-magazine.org/en/buy-online/) is all you’ll get for now.
Patricia;
If the old saying “you learn more from your mistakes than your successes” is true then I should be the modern Einstein equivalent! Sadly I’m not! :-)
Ross.. key word there might be learn.. I think thats where I might be going wrong…ouch..
IMANTS: I have not posted ‘I have a secret comment’. The following must be considered.
1. DAH, some months ago, told me that Burn Magazine does not take images that can be classified as ‘news’. I myself do not consider the piece in question as ‘news’ but it is up to him, as the curator to decide whether or not the piece is suitable. Each of us has a different idea of what is news anyway.
2. The author has not responded to my idea that his piece be aired on Burn Magazine. This is not to say that he would not agree if he was approached by the curator or editor or by me/someone else with their permission.
3. I am not willing to share thoughts provided by photojournalists in the discussions on Facebook due to the privacy issue. But, I am more than willing to share every single word I wrote on there and to invite all those involved in that discussion and anyone else who is interested, to partake in an open discussion on ALL the related issues. Or, for DAH to extend the invitation – IF he is interested.
4. I have already taken up a lot of space on here and do not know if it would be welcome if I posted all the thoughts I shared on Facebook on here but AM more than willing to do so!!!
I hope this clarifies my position. : )
Hugs to all.
PETER: “Ross.. key word there might be learn.. I think thats where I might be going wrong…ouch”
So that’s the secret… I won’t tell anyone if you don’t :-)
JENNY,
no problemos…it’s nice to have you here…we need more BURNED ladies…!!!
hmmm…maybe, I can talk to the author…cause…BURN is the place to Be Aired…
MR.HARVEY…left the windows open…
ROSSY…PETER…
I can keep a secret…:)))
hello
Ross. No thats O.K. Its just that I keep missing the point myself..
MR.VINK,
thanks … shipment price for Europe…7,40 !!!
2 souvlakia one soda…or one coffee fredo near Acropolis…
spreads are high …and my Spirit too!!!
COME ON BURNIANS…
DAH: Your twitter comments have me laughing! Very envious of the rain in Spain. Enjoy life ‘Under The (ash cloud of the) Volcano’!
DAVIDB,
HELL …oooooo!!!
Is Beate cooking carbonara???
fish pie tonight..
yeah..
DB (David B): Hello there! Are you aware that you initials, backwards, are the same as the company that sponsored James Nachtwey’s work on tuburculois on here? I just read that new infections are occuring at a rate of about one per second.
Hope you and everyone on here is having a great day!
Later…
Civi: Is that your nickname? Thanks. : )
DAVIDB: I LOVE fish pie! Mmmmmm! But supposed to be going fully vegetarian. :(
JENNY…My name is long…
after 3 ouzos and 2 wines …”civi” sounds like music to my ears…:)))
Perro que no camina, no encuentra hueso.
The dog that doesn’t walk doesn’t find a bone. [You can’t succeed if you don’t try.]
BURNIANS…bring the bones home…
not you BOBBBY :)))
Jenny: I think the debate is interesting and I am sure that the Burnians would have many opinions. The question is whether the photographer is interested in this debate…
Oh the ash! I was planning to visit David in Madrid, and now the ash.. what to do!!!??
SONG WINNER MOBY – WAIT FOR ME
Description:The video clip portrays the story of a girl who decides to invite Moby into her life. She attempts to do so by using the “How to Summon Moby Guide for Dummies”, putting herself through 10 bizarre and comical steps (each is a tribute to a different Moby videoclip). Will she succeed?
http://genero.tv/watch-video/4562/#
Some feedback from Moby on why he chose this as the winning video: “It was incredibly hard picking a winner in this competition, as there were dozens and dozens of great videos to choose from. I chose this winning video based on it’s creativity, production value, concept, and humor. Thanks to everyone who entered, and I’m truly sorry that there couldn’t be more than one winner, as they were all really good”
http://genero.tv/watch-video/4562/#
Jenny what is it that we are supposed to discuss? Links are permitted so if the piece is on the net then give us the link, surely it is not all confined to facebook, if it is SO important there must be blogs mentioning aspects, they are free to www a link to there would be useful.
Write what you think people will eithr respond if there is something to respond to
ANDREAG,
take the train …down to Greece…come home…from here
we can pick up some Italians(EVA,ABELE,LAURA…) and we are on are way to Madrid…
hey,PANOS…wait for Us:)))
I will be back…
Jenny:
is this about Marco Vernaschi’s pictures of the exhumation of the young girl in Uganda??…
bob
http://rising.blackstar.com/please-no-more-pictures-of-dying-africans.html/comment-page-1#comment-13636
http://untoldstories.pulitzercenter.org/2010/04/uganda-babirye-the-girl-from-katugwe.html
http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/illegal-exhumation-a-debate-about-marco-vernaschis-methods
Not much of a secret, no idea what happens in facebook, but the net leaks, thankefully.. I have to say I haven’t read all yet, so not giving an opinion myself..
Andrea, taking the train might be a bad idea, I’ve heard that they’re booked out (Northern Europe) up to the 23rd.. seems airspaces over Scotland, Switzerland and Northern Italy have cleared, but new ash clouds are expected over the UK.. Rome airport as of yesterday was a HUGE mess, but working..
As for the seagull kitty pic, thanks for looking :)
Of course you can imagine what would happen if people actually did stop reporting on the horrors taking place in Africa. That would be indicative of the casual racism and indifference to the suffering of “the other” by the all-too-comfortable bourgeois society in the wealthy countires, or something like that.
No, the problem isn’t that the stories are told, it’s that they are not more widely disseminated. Five and a half million people die horrible fucking deaths in the Congo and that’s not newsworthy? In any sane world it would be the lead story every night until it was stopped, and it would have been stopped pretty damned quick if it had been the lead story every night. Stop reporting it? That’s sick. Really sick.
Better to question why it’s not being reported adequately. That’s the story of our comfortable lives.
Yea saw the Marco thing a while back, sure has opened a hornets nest. There is a lot of “don’t want to go there” and passion surfacing. Whatever the case the images are quite hard hitting, those worlds colliding are quite a ugly with a spot of graceful human compassion in the mix.
Yea saw the Marco thing a while back, sure has opened a hornets nest. There is a lot of “don’t want to go there” and passion surfacing. Whatever the case the images are quite hard hitting, those worlds colliding are quite a ugly side of us with a spot of graceful human compassion in the mix.
Not easily dismissed visually, too many will ignore and dive into their own fox hole. Me I like his work maybe his methods are questionable but that may be the story to some ……. “the getting of images”
The questions surrounding the Ugandan girl from Katugwe and the swirl of controversy/concern is not about the images but about whether or not Marco had the right to have the young girl’s body exhumed and then photographed. Though exhumation can sometimes be part of criminal investigation and especially when conducted under the legal auspices of a governing or crimnal investigatory body, the details of this case are still surfacing and being negotiated. Besides, who doesn’t remember Gerrardo’s unsealing of al capone’s vault in the name of investigative journalism ;).
the questions being raised are of a serious nature, serious enough to indict both the West’s essentially racist notions of what happens ‘elsewhere’ which is fit for examination/reporting as well as the extraordinary horrorshow that is the human condition. The issues surrounding this case have to do with both the ethics of a reporter proportedly talking with the family of the proportedly sacrificed young girl and allowing her grave to be exhumed in order to photograph the corpse. This is not the same, for example, as with the pictures that earlier in the year were awarded an WPP of the stoning death of Mohamed Abukar Ibrahim in Somali. Marco was not present during the alleged act. Reporting the news and having a body exhumed for the right to photograph are very different ethical and moral issues. But, I don’t wish to delve into this now….I am wondering if this is the to which Jenny referred, that’s why i brought it up…
As for Congo, it is an example absolutely. As I’ve talked about with Marcus before, it is outrageous our need for certain ‘truths’ while turning a blind’s eye to other certain realities: whatever serves our comfort or reinforces our moral superiority.
However, the issue with Marcos’s images and documentation is still a bit nebulous…
lots to say on this issue, but i’ll spare y’all that for later ;)
running
b
I was referring to Panos’s link, not the Marco question. But why the hell shouldn’t someone report on the ongoing practice of human sacrifice in some African cultures? People everywhere should be embarrassed that these horrors persist. I’d have no trouble passing moral judgment if he had dug up the body himself, but if the parents felt it would help to publicize the atrocity in order to save others from a similar fate, then that’s a different calculation. But it’s sad that for this issue to get any attention at all it takes a famous journalist and a controversy. If someone really wanted to know the truth, all they’d have to do is collect Monday morning newspapers from all over the continent and count how many strangely mutilated bodies turn up on Sunday morning. As a morbid bonus, they’d get a treasure trove of horrific photos produced by not-at-all famous photographers.
I should add that the entire group of images is harrowing and powerful and Marco is an extraordinary photographer, hard-hitting and in the midst of it….he doesnt shy away….and his story is important….and i often just wonder sometimes, are stories serving the justice of the children or is it more fodder for the west to again see africa and aficans as uncivilized and lost….
this story has, in truth, divided my thoughts and heart….and either way, it’s important to be aware and to reflect, not only on the story itself, but on the full implication of both the story and our relationship to it
here is Marco’s story: (WARNING: graphic images!)
http://www.photoshelter.com/c/marco_vernaschi/gallery/CHILD-SACRIFICE-Uganda/G0000x1HawSRNvQo/?_bqH=eJzL9A0PdfYrTY8PSg4rMHULNSo2NS6vLEhyM_C1MjO0MjQwsLJyj_d0sXU3AIIKQ4_E8uAgv7LAfLUAkKiau2e8u6OPj2tQJDZFAEfQHDs-&_bqO=19
Michael:
i am not passing moral judgement…i imagine we’re crossing writing about this…my only concern was with the exhumation of the girl’s body….and the circumstances under which this occurred, that’s it…the more important question, as you point out is:
1) why does the west continually ease these kinds of stories into their consciousness when it’s about ‘elsewhere’ (often dark, murky africa) and less so when it’s in their own back yard…
2)this story, and stories like it, should be not only on the front pages, but should be in people’s awareness, but people are not interested in awarness…most people want to be served up their breakfast bit of horror to not only declaim their own sense of righteousness and goodess but also to expell the tedium from their lives…
i’m not sure where you and i disagree???…
maybe crossed wires?
but as i said, more to write about this, but cant now…must run, late…
b
I gather this is what Jenny was on about, I am quite happy to stay with the work and as you are Bob I was a bit divided on first viewing …. but heck with fence sitting and I shall embrace what Marcos has presented. Those that find his methods questionable, so be it if money passed hands I am sure that the reasons make sense.
Imants :)
yes, i agree….i’m siding with Marco because I trust him and his work….and hope that this girl’s family wanted the pictures shown and thus the exhumation…i hope it wasnt just for the sensationalized aspect…i trust him and his track record more…either way, he too is torn by this, that’s for sure…but alas, those children….we continue to make a mess of things….my bigger anger is more toward the west, all our wealth and our history of what we’ve done there and we squandered and continue to squander…….how we’ve failed in our comfort, not only there but in our own lives and nations and behaviors…everything about this story and about its exposure is heart crushing….
ditto the ;young kids getting pounded in afghanistan/iraq/quatemala, etc…..
time to go gecko hunting and take a walkabout with you :)))…someday :))
running
b
I wasn’t addressing my comments to anyone in particular. Just that I’ve been there/seen that and it evokes unpleasant memories. The idea that these stories shouldn’t be told for some mistaken notion of political correctness is sick, imo.
Patricia, just wanted you to know that my comments about your essay have been instrumental in my view of my own essays. I am looking at them with the same eye I talked about for yours. You sound good; I’ve been traveling so haven’t kept up much with dialogue and seems all are off on another track.
Gordon, I totally can relate to what you are saying. I finally, finally got the rest of my blk & wht film developed (after 9 months!) and hate them. I thought they were going to be so good because I had two shots out of the one roll I had developed in the dark room early on that made it into a show.
Now I know I need to stick with the equipment and technology I know. We all learn through mistakes. I am sure you have some wonderful shots of the mother and daughter and don’t even need to mention your “mistake” to them.
There are locust plagues out west where I was…….. watched a kid dissect a hopper with his fingers in fascination as his dog wrestled a bogong moth. No photos just just a grin
………..Bob always welcome on a geckobout
Bob, if you read here Marco Vernaschi’s words here:
http://untoldstories.pulitzercenter.org/2010/04/uganda-babirye-the-girl-from-katugwe.html
he says yes, he’s torn, but also that the mother has seen why he was there and what he was doing, going to do (seeing his other photos), and it was her agreeing with the exhumation.. and, I have no idea, but has exhumation the same meaning in Uganda as it has in the West? I mean, is it a tabu, or is it just projecting our POV onto other people, culture etc? Am not sure..
Exhumation is not taboo it is quite a regular occurrence……. it wasn’t robbing a grave but even that has valid reasons within some contexts.
Now I’m caught up. Interesting dialogue on Africa etc. I don’t want it to be swept under the rug (the atrocities of Africa and other countries) and I am not embarrassed by them as I have no means within myself to stop these things from happening (rapists, cutting off female genitalia, forcing children to carry guns). I too get very tired of seeing seriously damaged and murdered people’s photos that I can do nothing about. But as Andre the photographer said on the link that Panos shared with us, when you are there and see the damage that is spreading throughout the continent, how can you not take photos to share with the world?
That is their passion; they as photographers care about these people in foreign lands and are willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to clue the world in on what is happening. I am glad they do.
It seems like the point of this guy’s initial dialogue was not that we should not see what is happening in the world but that his helplessness in helping these people whose photos tear at his heart has caused him to not want to see them anymore. That I can understand. And NGOs whose job it is to help these people put their photos into solicitations for money to support aid. With so many reports of fraud and bad management in some NGOs people (me included) are becoming very suspicious of these organizations.
What is happening in my life is I want to help America in its struggles. Because as a photographer I can not only document what is happening but I can give hands on help to those I meet. Charity begins in your own backyard and when you create change around you that change continues outward and you just don’t know where it will end–hopefully never.
Imants :)))…need it, indeed :)))
Eva :)…yes, thanks…i’d read Marco’s words last week…..that’s why i dont quite understand the uproar…it seems a bit hypocritical from the ethics brigade…it is a story that needs to be told and i have always had big respect for Marco’s work and his words….
Michael: agreed….but, as michael herr wrote, there are no simplisitic answers in either criticism or the defense….that is the egregious part…people, one side or the other, sum things up too quickly, are too quick to arrive at both conclusions and judgement….the one thing for sure that goes without saying: stories need to be told and people need to be aware…..not only about uganda, but in backyards as well….
RAIN, RAIN, RAIN…..please watch…
a new movie from “cHEAp cAMERa pRODUCTIONs”…its 5 minutes pure bliss…;)
I think the conclusion: important story + well know photographer = no reason to question the methods, is a bit hypocritical. Cowboy-journalism seems to be evolving, and I see very little interest to raise the debate in our profession. If people do, they are met by silence or they are soon accused for having a hidden agenda etc.. I am not a moralist, but digging up a grave to take picture of a buried little girl, for me that is a bit over the top.
(not) important story + (not) well know photographer = Reason to question the methods, is a bit hypocritical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8oMwqdYnhI
(please support the above movie so i can get enough funds for sequence “Rain no2”)
The part about exhuming the body of the young girl was part of the thread I missed. Never heard the term cowboy-journalism before relating to this kind of “reporting” but it seems apt. I don’t have to see photos to know I wouldn’t want to see photos of the girl’s body. Why her body was exhumed I did not read about but if there was murder involved the murder must be exposed, just not by showing a dead girl’s body in the telling. I think a photographer must respect boundaries, whether it is taboo in a country or not isn’t the question; it is whether the story is tellable without the sensational photos such as this young girl’s body. Lots of think about.
Panos, thanks for the rain.
PANOS,
thanks for the leak…I LOVE the water …BUT where is the music my Greco friend…???
poor some music in…IMO:)))
1558…my lucky number…back to the regular program …
I was at a lecture the other night that discussed 19th century views of dead bodies. Interesting aside, there was a popular practice of posing and photographing (daguerratyping) dead children. Very strange images. Anyway, what I wanted to mention here is that the presenter said that after the Napoleonic wars, pretty much everyone in Europe was comfortable seeing dead bodies and it wasn’t such a big deal. The same probably goes for the war torn parts of Africa today.
THE ONE AND ONLY GURU IS DEAD
R.I.P
http://music-mix.ew.com/2010/04/20/guru-of-gang-starr-dead-at-43/
I think information, knowledge here is key. How can I say something is ‘over the top’, without knowing what’s behind, the reasons and the motivations of the photographer, the cultural background the story comes from.. it seems, from the comments I’ve read on the various links provided, that what upset most people was the exhumation, the moral issue about the desecration of the grave, and not the murder.. I find that a bit odd..
Born on July 17, 1966, the Massachusetts native burst onto hip-hop’s underground scene in the late 1980s. His rhymes were equal parts aggressive, uplifting, and witty.
Guru’s manager, Solar, released a statement confirming his artist’s death.
“The world has lost one of the best MCs and Hip-Hop icons of all-time — my loyal best friend, partner, and brother, Guru,” he said. “Guru has been battling cancer for well over a year and has lost his battle! This is a matter that Guru wanted private until he could beat it, but tragically, this did not happen. The cancer took him. Now the world has lost a great man and a true genius.”
OK..now back to your regular program…
A GURU IN YOUR BACKYARD
For anyone that checked my RAIN trailer earlier..thank you…
The real MOVIE is Almost done/rendering…
Its a movie not only about Rain..but also about GURUS…
huge coincidence…one of my favorite gurus ..the one & and only Guru just died..
but my movie (coming up)…is dealing with our need to be mentored..
we all need to be saved..
we need a Guru to tell us how to achieve peace (right Cathy?)
we need guidance..
we need..we need..we need…approval..acceptance..love..the light..
like the Uganda children..u know the evil spirited..the bewitched…
the possessed ones..the homeless…
U know..the ones buried alive or mutilated…
U know..the ones abandoned by their parents end up in jail…to free some “space”..
U know…I see no difference..seekers of light..of hope..
seekers of peace..of better life…Exorcisms…religions..fake hope..
hope..hope..hope…Selling hope…for a child…Hope for a price…
bullshit…
people hope that their “god” will help’em…
God is Great..sure he is…but not for you..not for this lifetime..
so please give me a little time to render that sh*t and you’ll get your answers..
All abandon hope..free yourselves…
accept “nothing” for what it is…
because the “nothing” is what scares you..and you are willing to Even believe
in some kind of Afterlife to Exorcise it…
Thats whats makes the Perfect Victim…
Thats whats makes the Perfect Victim…
———————————
That is what makes you the Perfect Victim…
Panos: :))))))
i dont know why, but i frickin’ LOVE thise films of yours….part andy warhol, part late-nigt-tv, part just simple joy, part trippy color moves, a la 70’s op art/conceptual vid…who knows…who cares…i just know that i love all these instillations..if i were rich, i’d fund rain no. 2…and all the rest of your greek odyssey :)))
eva/michael/lee/….important discussion…really wish this were not the web, and have a chance…will have a beer, most likely, with Philip blenkinsop this weekend, plan to chat about that…too..
gotta fly
hugs
b
MUSIC BY SIMON SLATOR…written especially for this movie…
please watch carefully…my Guru is able to change the foliage colors…he can command Rain…he can stand still… he can Inspire..
but,…but…but Alas..
HE CAN ALSO GET WET…he is not as invisible as i thought..expected or wanted..
Please watch the whole movie here:
NEW..NEW…NEW…:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmJSyFjWLjI
bOBBY…this movie is dedicated to all of us that once believed and somehow got betrayed…in religions…love relationships..whatever…
thank you
;)
starring DIMITRI THE PHILOSOPHER…
SPEECHLESS…
BTW..bOB thank you for posting the Uganda link earlier…I dont mind if that italian freak paid the mother to take the kid out of the grave…we all learned something …”new”…
TO ALL-
Some may have shared this already but VII is doing an on-line magazine now, with the recent work done by the VII photographers in Haiti.
http://magazine.viiphoto.com/feature/show/253/
Worth having a look! I was particularly “interested” by the color photographs that James did in Haiti…some obviously horrible images of the tragedy but some actually beautiful in a strange way. Check-it out.
Eric
VII…just realized what we realized couple hundred years ago…right on…!!! :(
Panos :)))
I WANT a guru in my backyard too! :)))))….can u please tell Dmitri to send some rain to Toronto….our grass and flowers need it1 :))) (but not on saturday/sunday)…
i am so totally mad in love with all these vids…the frickin’ trippy colors, the hilarious subtitles, the frickin paradise of life: rain, meditation, camera, silence :)))))…good god, have you found paradise….
i dont know why, but i think Dmitir and Imants are brothers! :))))))…
so, ok, 2 panos vids in one day…what a day indeed…:)))))…awaiting the next installment! :)))
hugs, running
bob
ANDREA: i’m trying to write something now about this…i’m not sure it’s about cowboy journalism, but i am troubled about the relationship to how the body was decided upon to be exhumed…but more about this later…
bob
Thanks for the Vll:Haiti link,Eric.
What I came away with (obviously apart from the human tragedy) is that the still images
left far more of an impression with me than did any of the motion segments.
Motion, for the sake of motions sake, shouldn’t be used as a crutch to inject some variety.
Alas in the wash up very few people see the work of Marco and stuff like Marcus’s Rape of a Nation………. the audience is dominated by photographers and activists with a hand full of bystanders
Alas in the wash up very few people see the work of Marco
——————————————————–
nahhh…we all see that..
we all love people paying people to keep us happy…thats the essence of capitalism…in its glory…
..the thing of it is..is..we all not that successful of convincing folks..
but one thing fo sho…lawyers cost…no matter where,…
lawyers cost…no matter where,…
——————————-
….. they are located….
I actually watched all the way to the end of the rain video, Panos.
Mtomalty, I think some motion, for the sake of motion, can really enhance the power of stills. That’s the magic of video for me.
Might I add a video? Street photographers in London have been having a tough time of it in recent years. So much so, in fact, that thousands of us got togethered in Trafalgar Square recently in a mass gathering protest under the heading, “I’M A PHOTOGRAPHER, NOT A TERRORIST!” Here’s my take on the shenanigans;
Paul.
It’s video night! I watched it all the way through, too, Panos. Pretty good, but would have been more interesting had you gotten strangers to pose naked under the downpour so you could photograph any weird looks that might flit across their faces. Well, maybe not. Bada bing. And Paul, I liked your video too, but it could have been improved if you all had rounded up a bunch of homeless and Aids victims and such to photograph the photographers. But I suppose that would have been a little outside the scope of the project? Bada boom. Okay, guess this is good a time as any to premier my first video. It was made a long, long time ago on a Mac II VX in a headspace far, far away. To give you some idea, the little actress in the film will be going off to college this year (he weeps).
PANOS thanks for keepin it real and sharing Guru and the link about Guru’s passing.
PAUL TREACY – awesome
Haven’t shared much here so far, but this is in honor of Guru’s passing and my personal guru…Citizen Kane.
Hood Rich by Citizen Kane
I have been so busy and so exhausted that, for some time, I have been able to do little more than skim through these comments. Now I am even more exhausted than ever, but I just got a task out of the way. Being too tired to do anything else, I started with the most recent comment, worked my way backwards and soon came upon the various videos.
Michael, since yours was the first that I saw, let me say I absolutely loved it. It was like a dream that took me back to childhood and made me want to stay there.
Paul, having just freely carried and used my camera in many places in New York City, the number one terrorist target in the world, including the subway, it was jarring for me to realize that this is happening in the UK – but the video sure was fun and it made me wish that I could have been there.
Eric – that brought me to your link to vii – I had a couple of different thoughts. First and foremost, what a powerful rendition of hell on earth. I could not help but think of all the Biblical, Book of Mormon and other prophecy that I had been brought up on. What impressed me the most and brought the humanity home was that in the midst of this unimaginable suffering, people found the will to give loved ones the decency of burial. Sometimes, when I see all the images of suffering that hit us every day, I fear that there is so much of it that it is losing its power to move and motivate us. This held the power. Also, when I first began to watch it, I was a little annoyed at the mix of video, still and music, because basically when I look at still photos, I like to do so in quiet, to look at the photos with no distraction.
However, when the women let out with the scream of inconsolable mourning, it brought the grief home. It is a scream I have heard many times under far less trying conditions. And even now, the song of those people singing at the funeral continues in my head and the sound of it moves me. In my own work, I have thought about mixing still, sound and video but have so far stuck strickly to still.
Panos: were I not so exhausted and in such a deep funk, when I saw that Guru rain movie was 8:38 minutes, I would have said to myself, “I would like to watch, but there is no way that I spend that much time doing so. Now, I watched every second and, in my state, it kind of felt like I was getting stoned – something that I have not done for a very long time, but now it seemed very pleasant and strange.
However, after watching it, I think I will be too embarrassed to ever again lift a long lens up at anything close to a 45 degree angle in public. Mike’s idea about getting strangers to pose naked in the downpour is a good one, but I don’t think that you had better do it. No telling where that lens might wind up.
I started to then watch the five minute-plus movie, but soon felt like I already had and began to value my time again.
Then I wound up on the various posts and links to the Marcos piece. Due to the way my own life has unfolded, I am in general a defender of the religious practices of traditional people even when they look odd, but when supposed traditional practices are used to justify murder, rape, and mutilation, then no, something must be done. He was wholly correct to show the body of the murdered girl. That picture just brought the story home in a way that words by themselves could not do. It was all hard to look at, but it was strong.
The photoshelter piece posted by bob was of course the most powerful presentation, but from a technical standpoint, it kind of illustrated a dilemma that I face. I think most of you know that I keep a blog that is a running mix of images and narrative. I am a writer as well as a photographer and I see the images and words as one entity. In my blog, given the limits of so many computer monitors, I am basically satisified, for now, with the size the vertical images appear, but the small size of the horizontals frustrate me. It just drains the impact of too many images.
Yet, the photoshelter piece demonstrates how inadequate slide show presentations are for writing narrative to photos. I could increase the column size, but I have many readers in Rural Alaska where connections tend to be very slow, and every night I get a slew of hits from India. I know from experience that despite India’s major role in high tech, most individuals there are still on slow connections outside the workplace and in the workplace are severely limited as to time they are allowed to spend online.
It’s an important thing to me, because, as absurd as this sounds, it is my goal to build my blog into a true online publication that can be the foundation of my business.
That was as far back as I got, although yesterday I did manage to see Eva’s kitten and seagull, an image which I highly praised. Of course, loving cats as I do, it is easy to reach me with a cat image, but this one was truly excellent.
I was going to write a bit here about what I have been doing, but this post is getting long, so I will save it for a followup post.
If I wound up skipping anything as I moved backwards in time, forgive me. I am truly exhausted. The world is blur. My little task did not exhaust me; I have been exhausted for a long time and it just keeps getting worse. I think it is about to catch me.
Okay – the followup to deal with my own recent work. Most of you know that I live in Wasilla, a once obscure town now far too well known for my comfort and often strangely depicted. On Tax Day, there was Tea Party rally here. I thought about going to take some pictures and to make a post on my blog, but an Elder from Barrow – the biggest community of my other home, the Arctic Slope – had traveled to Anchorage for cancer treatment. I had made some prints of him Eskimo dancing with his daughters, so I drove to town to give the prints to him and his daughters. I thought this had taken care of it and that I would no longer have to decide whether or not to go to the Tea Party. I could not cover it if I was in Anchorage.
But, as it happened, the rally did not start until fairly late and so when I got home there was still plenty of time. I found some other things to do for awhile, but eventually wound up there anyway. As I usually do for my blog, I carried only a Canon Powershot s90 pocket and I did not really shoot all that many images, but I shot enough to make a post and I also heard a speech that troubled me greatly. From then until today, things kept happening that gave me good excuses to delay that post, maybe until it was too late to do it altogether, but then today, I knew I had no choice but to do it, so I did.
The direct link to it and the series of dithering posts that preceded it is right here:
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/category/tea-party
PANOS: I can’t agree with you. Everybody can see the stories in the mainstream press on this issue and everybody can see EXISTING documentaries and EXISTING photographs and the forthcoming documentaries and the photographs of other photographers who are now headed to Uganda to work on this issue. And what will it all add up to?: a very damaging image of a country that is struggling to move up the ladder. The problem with this type of story and it’s rampant proliferation is: that it perpetuates an existing narrow, distorted vision and stereotypes that restrict the world from seeing the truth, or from seeing ‘a richer vision’. I believe such visions are political and can easily be used.
Marco claims that he is doing this out the goodness of his heart to help a small number of young men who approached him from an NGO, as I understand it. I am told that he persuaded them that a name change of the NGO which would fit with this issue would be beneficial and have yet to hear what the NGO was originally called and established for. This I would like to know because it seems to me that whilst he IS alerting people to the issue – just as other photographers and photojournalists have ALREADY done BEFORE him – that they serve to promote him more than the issue and at the same time, tar an entire country – the majority of whom I fully believe to be good, honest people – with the same brush. That brush is the one that puts people into catetories and keeps entire nations DOWN.
There has to be another way to tell such stories without the potential for causing so much damage to a nation with 31 million people. And by the way, were are all the stories about the incredible success of that country to reduce the Aids rate and save the lives of potentially tens of thousands of people?
Yes, the story has to be told. Yes, it is an issue. But, it has been told. How many times do we need to hear it being told and especially before a national election? I know Marcos politics and that he believes the existing government is not serving the people well. But, on the other hand, this country has been the rising star of East Africa in terms of economic growth and that is something quite remarkable.
I am told that he persuaded them that a name change of the NGO ……….and established for. Who told you , can you verify it all or is it just hearsay?
Maybe you are bias to the regime in Uganda therefore you are at odds with what Marcus produced,
I dont know Jenny..it seems that you are saying that Marco is deeply involved in Ugandas politics…that he is against the current regime…that he supports the change..or simply supports the opposite party..Can he even vote there in Uganda? hmm i have no idea…seems a little too much…
to me he sounds more like another zoriah that doesnt hesitate paying a desperate mother to dig out the dead body for his own personal success …and accidentally helps the rest of the world see how corrupted Uganda’s regime really is..
but i could be wrong..maybe marco is a great guy..maybe he never paid that mother (although he pretends he has been forced to pay)..maybe he isnt another zoriah..i trully hope im wrong about my zoriah suspicions..
Exhumation is not taboo it is quite a regular occurrence……. it wasn’t robbing a grave but even that has valid reasons within some contexts.
———————————————-
Imants you might be right actually…hmmm..
i just have a hard time to believe that he payed “after” and not “prior” to the exhumation..but hey..one thing for sure..i wasnt there..but still i’ll go with my gut..i have a hard time to be convinced especially by journalist and PJs…
Yes, the story has to be told. Yes, it is an issue. But, it has been told.
—————————————————————–
Jenny , that validates marcos’s story even more…and no way i feel sorry for a corrupted regime..even if they built a better economy or paid more money to pharmaceutical companies for hiv drugs..sorry..no compassion for regimes or governments..(he he..im sure Dalai Lama agrees with me)..Love to the people of Uganda but not to their regimes…
Bill..
thanks for the rally photos…pretty scary…Not even S.Palin wanted to represent those folks…
:))))))))))
Paul..great video…(he he..minimum camera shake!)
Frank..:) ..loved that Citizen Kane slideshow/music too…
but Michael’s video was the best….:)
from the comments I’ve read on the various links provided, that what upset most people was the exhumation,
————————————————————–
Eva..:)
Paying for the exhumation is my concern…not the act itself…but i dont think that anyone disagrees with exposing the cruel regime..imo
Michael Webster :))))…
that college bound little one took my heart right away :))…..i have my own soon-to-be-college bound one who loved to put things in jars too….maybe they should meet :)))
love the big red fin too :))
thanks for sharing :)))
b
Panos I have exhumed myself from all the graves that I have dug for myself ………
discovery channel and NAT GEO cover exhumations all the time..
they call it archeology…
positive vs negative PJ work is a contentious issue.. especially when shock value is in there..
so long as someone is covering every side all will be looked after.
i think marco was operating in good faith.. even if he actions trounce on ¨faith¨..
a corpse is a corpse whether it has been in the ground or not – treating it with some kind of respect is the goal.. the question is whether the girls memory and remains are being treated with respect by telling the story and showing the end or by leaving her in the ground.. i think the former is the case here..
having seen corpses treated with very little respect, my perceptive is that telling the story and needing the photo vindicates marco of wrong doing in this case…
africa and negative press… well.. yes.. i don´t want to generalize – yet it gets a bit much with most PJ´s thinking the only valuable story involves suffering.. NGO´s and africa / s. america / india / onandon have become extended collage work-placement for some.. while native photographers no doubt find much more interesting stories.
…was it you who helped me exhume those lost souls for the universities in 1786. Yes the timegivers return with the transatlantic raiders
hey – i´m up here digging up ice-men.. 2000 years old and still got his skin..
needs to see a dentist though.
looks great in a museum
jenny..
fish pie was super-supper.
tenuous link to TB and BD..
my initials actually look like something more familiar.
db
sorry, no time to be here…however, you are all used to my travels and the times when i just have quite literally no time….teaching but not workshop per se…EFTI is sort of the Spanish version of ICP…very well run with terrific facilities and eager students who keep me in class all day and at the fiesta all night…various folks showing up from all over the place..ex-students, friends, etc…Mike Courvoisier who printed the show is making sure all goes well in the hanging thereof…
Jorge Prat what happened to you?? waited for you last night..free day today , no classes, just interviews….text me amigo….rarely checking email this week…surely you can find me…
cheers, david
JENNY…
i am lost in this conversation….i remember you vaguely telling about a photographer who had something to offer, but you did not say who or the nature of the subject..correct? in any case, it is not that i do not welcome “news” it is just not the nature of this beast to try to keep up with news for pretty obvious practical reasons…we did publish Panos’ riots in Greece because he was on the scene and was very fast and deliberate about getting it to me…i would do something like that again in a heartbeat…i think if you check carefully our archive, no type of photography has been excluded here…and never will be..
cheers david
Michael Webster
That whole I’M A PHOTOGRAPHER, NOT A TERRORIST thing was a little narcissistic, for sure and self indulgent but ultimately it resulted in the police backing off some. Fewer incidents since of photographers getting hassled.
Brilliant idea though about getting the homeless bods to photograph us. I wonder what that would have looked like.
Checking out your premier now.
“Ak Panos, par ko tu mani moci…………
IMANTS: I had already been involved in a debate on this over several days and it was me that started that debate but I had NO idea that any laws had been broken or that local organizations were being used or vice versa. All this information was introduced by another photojournalist who entered the discussion later on.
I just thought it might be a good idea given that the discussion was among so few with such diverse views to air it on Burn Magazine as it is a piece that touches on many different issues.
PANOS: I didn’t say anyone is involved in Ugandan politics – I just believe that a story told in this way makes for a powerful political issue that can perpetuate existing stereotypes and damage international perceptions of a nation of people (most of whom are clearly not involved in this). I am asking if there could be another way to tell it or to gain the assistance and/or funding necessary given that there could be a tiny number of people committing the crimes. The US State Department has already given funds for training the police force to deal with it and they say it relates to small numbers and is under control. Five years ago, the figures were 5 children out of a total population of 31 million were on record as having been killed in this way.
To cover stories like this has to require having very good local connections, not only with the police but also, lots of time. Without time, how can you get the images to match what you believe/have been told the story is? For this NGO and this story, would it have been better to use images already taken by local photographers at the time the crimes were committed and the corpses found if no such crime is found to have taken place during the time you are reporting? Not saying this is true. Just posing the question.
DAH: Ok. Thanks. Sorry I am working on two things at one time and didn’t see that you had posted a comment in the time between me reading earlier comments and posting the above comment.
Not saying this is true. Just posing the question…….. with a few accusations and ” I heard…..”
I didn’t say anyone is involved in Ugandan politics but you did make out that Marcos’s goals were political in nature
David: I did send you a text yesterday…looks like i did something wrong. Will try again.
IMANTS,
“Oh, Panos, as you my bike … … … …
“Ak Panos, par ko tu mani moci…………
am I close???
Jenny, is that other photojournalist weighting in André Liohn?
“Paying for the exhumation is my concern…not the act itself…but i dont think that anyone disagrees with exposing the cruel regime..imo”
Panos, see, we have one pj saying (the one involved), that he gave the mother some money to hire a lawyer, and then we have another pj, who was not there, saying he bought the story. I don’t know either of them, but from what I see Marco Vernaschi is covering some of Africa since some years now, from his words he seems commited.. and his pictures could be a lot more on the sensationally/gruesome/gory side, if he wanted.
As for exposing a cruel regime, I’ll have to do some indepth research about Uganda, I simply don’t know enough about it..
Bill, spent some time on your blog.. scary stuff!
we have one pj saying (the one involved), that he gave the mother some money to hire a lawyer, and then we have another pj, who was not there, saying he bought the story
—————————————————-
Eva..he he..one more reason to never trust PJ’s
Five years ago, the figures were 5 children out of a total population of 31 million were on record as having been killed in this way.
————————————————–
Jenny you obviously saying that marco is full of shit and he makes a big story out of nothing..! right?
(as i said..im sitting on the fence on this one..i wasnt there..nor i wanna be..;)
civi..
“Oh, Panos, as you my bike … … … …
“Ak Panos, par ko tu mani moci…………
——————————–
ha ha…now im a bike? i knew im destined for something..just didnt know what it is..
“db”..The decibel (dB) is a logarithmic unit of measurement that expresses the magnitude of a physical quantity (usually power or intensity) relative to a specified or implied reference level. Since it expresses a ratio of two quantities with the same unit, it is a dimensionless unit. A decibel is one tenth of a bel, a seldom-used unit.
The decibel is widely known as a measure of sound pressure level…
dimensionless unit….wowwwww…
ps: and im just a ps…big deal..
:)
Panos I have exhumed myself from all the graves that I have dug for myself ………
——————————————————————
im working on my latest exhumation as we speak…slowly digging myself out of here…
out of this sticky greco hole grave i fell into head first..
:)))))))))))
For Panos.
I don’t have a guru or a mentor. Not yet anyway.
But I do have plenty of water.
(1:24)
ahhh…water..water..holy water..nice..:)
i love that little flip mino…
ALL: DAH has made it pretty clear that he’s not interested in the idea of airing the essay on here, so best not discuss it further. I don’t hold out much hope for anyone going into a country for a short period of time who already has a pre-conceived idea of what is going on re. a complex issue. There are PJs who do amazing work in a short amount of time and I am not discounting anyone from that and hope what whoever is not currently operating in that way, will rise to it. Nuff said.
DAVIDb: Sorry if you mis-interpreted my message. I would be happy to be associated with something that is helping people around the world as was achieved by that photographer!
IMANTS: Boy are you cynical! Wishing you a wonderful day.
EVA: Nice to meet you! : )
DAVID,
let’s assume that a fellow burnian is somewhere in madrid tomorrow night, and wants to say hello, is there a place to hang out?
and friday when is the opening? i didn’t see a schedule here.
and how about a burn meeting?
so many questions, so little time
um forte abraço,
Carlos Filipe
FROSTFROG…we Love you…you are all BURNED and we are kinda stoned…:)))
FRANKMI…Citizen Kane…wanna see more
PAULT… the Waves,mate…oih…the waves
JENNY…you are on the BURN floor…we Love you
DB…dig…till you BURN…video from TORCAPA …I can wait
BOBBY… yeap, you know…
MR.HARVEY…no comment…
P.S I am out of time…closing time…as My BURNIANS say…”nuff”
LOVE PEACE AND PHOTOGRAPHY ( what else)…ah , and Health,Sex,Money,Happiness…
hi jenny :)
civi
yesyes – in the making..
working on 4 new projects right now..
one of which is a JUST FOR GRANDMA edit of family matters..
will pass on when done.
:ø)
panos..
Brian Storm envys you initials..
jenny :ø)
CARLOS…JORGE
yes, let’s meet…i usually hang with my class that ends at 10pm thursday evening….the sure way to find me is to come to EFTI about that time and we will all go out……or, come to the show of my students, plus my print show on friday evening…and no doubt a fiesta to follow
tonight i am hiding…i think…but, you never know, so try text or call
i am having some trouble with text from some numbers…i can call some people, but text may not work using the same number…???? my U.S. mobile is; 202 413-1137
some of the Burn readers who were coming cannot because of the limited flights problem…others already here…
please find me one way or another…
cheers, david
JENNY…
what? where did i make anything “pretty clear” to you?? i only said i was lost in the whole conversation…you were mysterious in your first request (please go back and read your first comment)…i have not closed my mind to anything…i just do not know what your request is..i see nothing from you in email..whenever i have more than 10 minutes free i will go back and read everything here..no doubt i have missed something, but i have made no decisions because i have no idea what it is that i am supposed to decide…smiling
cheers. david
i have made no decisions because i have no idea what it is that i am supposed to decide…
Words to live by.
Interesting stuff up there in Wasilla, Bill. Wish it were not so prevalent elsewhere. I hope you Europeans are watching. I hope you value your civilization and somehow manage to hold on to it. Cause you know, once our right wing friends have vanquished the internal threat, i.e. democracy, they will turn outward. Don’t be surprised to wake up one day to find that your health care system and six week vacations are a dire threat to our national security. Cause after the internal threats, i.e., most people, are eradicated or under control and things are still getting much, much worse for the true believers, the only possible explanation will be that it’s all your fault.
Got a great validation hit in the mail last night. Recived the invite for the Seattle Art Museum show “KURT” opening concurrently with an Andy Warhol show on May 11th.
Invite features the Touch Me I’m Sick cover shot (the full frame one) alongside an SX-70 self portrait of Andy. Very cool. Feel art world validated at last. We did the whole seven Raji’s drum kit jumping sequence as 44X66 prints and then a salon style wall of nine 20X24s.
http://www.seattleartmuseum.org/exhibit/exhibitDetail.asp?eventID=16652
Best,
CP
Charles, very cool. Congrats. I actually lived in Seattle for a short while back then. Had a trailer in Auburn and a small room in a boarding house around the corner from the Blue Moon. Had no idea what was going on around me. Saw a few bands in Pioneer Square, but none of them were Nirvana. Didn’t listen to Nevermind until fairly long after it was popular. I’ve missed a few scenes in my life, but that was particularly unfortunate. Still, took a lot away from my time there. Seattle is a great city. I love it.
FELIX…oime…!!!
CP…we are Proud…PPP
BURNIANS,
“Patience, Persistence and Perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success”
Napoleon Hill (American author, 1883-1970)
Hey, I haven’t exhumed any bodies lately, but I’ve photographed some seriously disable people. They refer to this kind of thing as “disabled porn.” Levels and levels to wallow in here.
PANOS and CIVI
Serv’n up sum mo Citizen Kane….from the T-Dot (home of Drake, Kardinal Official, Maestro Fresh Wes, Mishee Mee, Kaanan, and others.
Who Am I – Citizen Kane
Jenny what was the prize for winning the guessing competition?
Feel art world validated at last..this should reduce your income now
Who validated you Imants? It sounds serious:)
Not me, responding to Charles
Well, to totally change the subject, my new Canon 7D and Canon 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 lens arrived today and, after only an hour or two of shooting, I couldn’t be happier. Haven’t yet tried the video, but since this will be my everyday workhorse, what really matters are the stills. And, to my eye, they are better quality than any I’ve ever taken with my previous two cameras (first the Canon Rebel & since 2007, the Canon 40D). You can read my glowing comments and see a test photo on my blog
http://patricialaydorsey.blogspot.com/2010/04/introducing-my-new-canon-7d.html
If anyone is considering buying this camera, feel free to email me with any questions at playdorsey@comcast.net
cheers
Patricia
Enjoy the camera and the lens, Patricia. It’s kind of funny, but, not withstanding the far greater performance and IQ of my DSLR’s, after blogging with pocket cameras, I don’t even like to use DSLR’s anymore. Sometimes, though, I have to.
I should add that it was not blogging that me into pocket cameras, it was a shattered shoulder that needed to be replaced, which left me able to shoot with only my left hand for about half-a-year. That’s what got me into my pocket cameras and now I wish I never had to shoot with anything else.
http://untoldstories.pulitzercenter.org/2010/04/questions-on-uganda-child-sacrifice.html
Make up your own minds, it doesn’t change that much for me. Even if Marcos stuffed up somewhere along the line so be it, it happens and he will move on just as we will.
Patricia, I used to own that lens, and it’s pretty solid. Enjoy.
I don’t even like to use DSLR’s anymore. Sometimes, though, I have to.
—————————————————————
Im with you Bill…Dslr’s are more like SUV’s…i also use them ONLY if i really really have to…
big bulky baloni…made to impress customers …expired designs as soon as they come out..ewww
Small, unobtrusive, respectful, tasteful is what i like..P&S, gf1’s and rangefinders…
but if you really wanna go Big..well then go Sally Mann BIG…
:)
We believe he gave the money out of compassion, in the emotion of the moment, and not as payment for exhuming Babirye’s body.
——————————–
he he..we (wanna) believe or
We (better) believe….
Vernaschi says that the village elder asked for a “contribution” and the mother asked for money to hire a lawyer. He gave them what he had, Vernaschi later said, leaving the family with about $70.
——————————————————————–
The village elder asking for “contribution” is like asking for a ticket to watch the “freakshow”…
I feel sorry for the kid(s) for many difference reasons now..Primarily for the torture and sacrifice of course ..no doubt..but also having family asking for a “ticket” also..
why would anyone need to “hire” a lawyer is such a strong case? The government/city should provide one for free…(in greece they say: never give money to an alcoholic)..hopefully thats not the case..
But, but if we accept that the family Should ask for lawyer money because that is the Uganda reality..then kudos to marcos for exposing an unsupportive inhumane regime…
Afterward, as he was leaving, Vernaschi says that the village elder asked for a “contribution” and the mother asked for money to hire a lawyer. He gave them what he had, Vernaschi later said, leaving the family with about $70.
————————————–
oh…now im reading even more carefully…there were 2 DIFFERENT PAYMENTS …
1) contribution (fees)
2) Lawyer money (fees)…
yikes..
(i know its not funny..its more or less disgusting…)
well , once again im gonna pretend i’m Imants’s “bike” and im gonna agree: “lets move on”
:(
“Now maybe I paid more than if I’d bought at Best Buy or Costco, but in my opinion it’s worth it. We need to support independently-owned businesses whenever possible.”
———————————————————–
now..on a lighter mode..
Patricia (im happy you are happy)…
And although i agree in supporting mom & dad independent little corner stores i have to be honest with u and inform u..
B&H doesnt fall in this above “little store” category…Lets be honest with ourselves…Its good to be romantic , but the main reason we all prefer B&H is that it is WAYYYY CHEAPER.. than any other place in the world…and most important ..YOU PAY NOOOO TAXES….. doesnt get any better than that , right?
And one more contradiction…if u really so sensitive and care so much to support small business then why not helping Olympus or Pentax or Leica? why giving the money (once again) to the big canon giant suv guy???
In reality canon is the Toyota or GM of photography…
People please support the little folks…Stay away from “monopolies”, “industry standards”, “leaders”..Im not doing an anti canon rally..not at all…Buy canon..it is Cheaper..no doubt…but do not forget the little guys…they are usually better quality but cant afford to advertise it..
research a little bit..dont be lazy..thats your passion anyways, right?
Maybe you wont easily find an add of a Voightlander lens in your latest NatGeo..but its ok…that doesnt mean it doesnt exist…
Panos, and this will be my last comment on this whole matter, if you read what Vernaschi writes on the other case of the mutilated boy, you’ll see that corruption of the police is an issue in Uganda. Also, according to UNICEF, there has been an increasing (800%!! in 2008) number of cases like the one of the little girl, seems that 5 cases a year (as jenny stated earlier on) is only wishful thinking.. not counting all the unknown cases..
Eva…:)
although we all know that G.W.Bush is not the right person for the job (laughing)…
one thing for sure..
Uganda’s police/regime’s corruption needs to be exposed before it gets (if ever) fixed..
not only punished but definitely fixed..but now i know ..im talking like a true patricia..oops
sorry.. a true romantic i meant..
but we all dream of that perfect Land called Utopia sometimes..not?
that dream land where children playing free and innocent…a place with no white picket fences or Discovery SUV’s ,or gas stations, or Toyotas or canon white lenses, Uganda’s government…
as John Lennon once said:
“Imagine theres no heavens…
Imagine there is no Uganda’s Healers and no religion too,
imagine theres no canon zooms and no toyotas too…
wyouwhooo-ooo..you might say im a dreamer,
but im not the only one”
All bitter truth aside though…
there would be no good soccer coverage without big white zooms…
The wedding folks would also suffer without them…
(viva Barcelona..viva Messi..;)
white canon lenses well just http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49NRR4yDZh4&feature=related
PANOS
Who said anything about B&H being a “mom and pop independent little corner store”? It takes up a full city block in Manhattan, for god’s sake! I was saying it is independently owned, that’s all. And your tirade against DSLRs in general and Canon in particular may fit with your own aesthetic and preferred way of shooting/buying, but doesn’t really take into account other photogs needs/preferences. For instance, my gimpy hands cannot handle smaller cameras. I need what may feel to you and others like a “bulky” body. It’s what my hans can safely grasp. Besides which, all my existing camera equipment is Canon ’cause that’s what I started with. I don’t have the money to start over with other brands. Besides which, why would I when I’m happy with what I have.
My goodness, Panos, you sure do like to put down other people’s choices. As if there’s ONE way to see things…and that is YOUR way and no one elses. Hey man, there are “different strokes for different folks”!
Patricia
well Pat..i agree…
but you shot the great “Falling into Place” with a rebel or a d-40…why a need for a new more expensive? what is the meaning u send to the kids? faster autofocus? bigger files? better photos somehow?..i understand the video part..but u could spend HALF of $$$ for the new rebel (same files, same video, same bulkiness)
see?
PANOS
Who said anything about B&H being a “mom and pop independent little corner store”?
———————————————————————————————–
errr…you did Pat
“By the way, I bought the camera, lens and assorted accessories online from B&H Photo in New York. They carry everything any photographer or videographer could ever want, and are independently-owned as well. Now maybe I paid more than if I’d bought at Best Buy or Costco, but in my opinion it’s worth it. We need to support independently-owned businesses whenever possible. I lost my favorite local camera store to the tanking economy in 2008. Don’t want to lose another precious resource…”
when Samys Camera(california B&H equivalent) opened in venice beach…closed all the small mom&pops stores around…now its the camera Walmart…with the worst customer service..of course you can buy also TAX FREE around Xmas time…who can compete, right?
people see Nachtwey for example shooting 5D’s ..little that they know is that Big James is sponsored by them..therefore , free stuff…who can resist that?
If Canon listens: please send me couple 5Ds for free..and i promise i will advertise them every 5 minutes in Burn..i would even do a 5D tatoo (in my forehead)…but send them for free (and through couple primes into that box too btw…make sure no “white” stuff though…laughing)
ok?
typo:”throw”
“If anyone is considering buying this camera, feel free to email me with any questions at playdorsey@comcast.net
cheers
Patricia”
——————————————
Patricia…the only thing made go crazy is the shameless Canon advertisement you did above…u own this camera for less than 24hours and yet u are an expert…you remind of a genius in the local apple store…
laughing..big hug and one love..u know im teasing you…but remember what your humble master DAH once said when everybody was begging for a little info on the M9..He said something like…People die in Haiti (now in Uganda too) and we are talking about expensive cameras???? Its out of place…
All im saying..is read the camera manual first, use it for couple days and then sure go ahead and praise it, advertise it, sell it…
btw, i just bought a new 35mm F1.2 Nokton M lens for a Leica…call me!
(be humble panos..be humble..;))
http://www.seattleartmuseum.org/exhibit/exhibitDetail.asp?eventID=16652
Best,
CP
——————————–
big congratulations..you deserve it….
now question : why did Kurt insisted buying cheap guitars?
instead of fancy ones that create better files?
I don’t really get this discussion about cameras.
When I used a car for many years, I’ll buy a new one. Even if the tires have the same size.
So what?
It is the picture that matters.
What not to love?
PANOS,
“If Canon listens: please send me couple 5Ds for free..and i promise i will advertise them every 5 minutes in Burn.”
yes, let’s divide the market! David takes Leica, you canon if you want, I could take nikon or olympus :)
anybody here us ???
Btw. I am going to build my own medium format camera. Will see :)
Regarding how long it takes to know a camera, I guess I’m somewhat retarded compared to you all. With my last two cameras, I found it took about 9 months before I felt I had adequate creative control. I’m at 9 months now with the 5D and know there’s still a lot more to learn. About Canon/Nikon/B&H etc., I don’t disagree with anything you say, Panos. For what it’s worth, I purchased mine because of the full frame. I’d been waiting for that a long time and am not disappointed. The difference is real. Chose Canon because I already had a few lenses. Chose Canon the first time because of price and features. Didn’t mind staying with them because customer service experience was as good as it gets (they fixed a lens on warranty that I had obviously dropped). Dislike having Canon gear because every tourist on the street in New York has 5D with an L lens. Amusedly watched guy with giant white lens enthusiastically shoot pictures of seagulls at the beach the other day. But those concerns are shallow, as am I apparently. I taped up the camera and lenses pretty much right out of the box. Now tourists gawk at my mystery gear.
It’s true that anyone can pay to go to the freakshow, but sad how few actually do. We’re always talking about the death of photography. You all would be surprised at how much the history of the freakshow parallels the history of photography. Maybe I’ll write something about it someday. I just brought it up the other day in the context of the ongoing moral conversation. They really do refer to it as “disabled porn.” Why do people want to see it? Or to photograph it? What does it tell us about the world and about ourselves? These are old questions that have long been debated and there are no easy answers. Maybe I was a little dishonest with that photo. Maybe it was a band leaving the stage after a performance. No one would think twice about a picture of a band coming off a stage in normal circumstances. Should they be treated differently because their mothers took Thalidomide?
Forget about canons, nikons, sonys or even about leicas!
Alpa is the best camera ever!
http://www.alpa.ch/en/products/cameras/camera-bodies/alpa-12-wa-rosewoodnat.html
DAH: Are you requesting that I send you an email? If so, please can you give me the address. Many thanks. I will send this message twice otherwise being so short, it may get lost.
DAH: Ditto the above.
All,
I was reading a bit about “orphan works”.
For example the excerpt below from US Copyright Office:
“A user must take all reasonable steps, employ all reasonable technology, and execute the applicable search practices to be submitted to the Copyright Office by authors, associations, and other experts. …”
http://www.copyright.gov/orphan/
I have not found a definition for “reasonable” though. What is a “reasonable step”, a “reasonable technology” etc.?
Have you seen a valuable discussion about that somewhere?
Because you might have a Copyright Office in the US to check. But that is not the norm.
(sorry if I missed a previous discussion and am bringing this up again)
…….. hmmn nah not going there this time
Imants,
not looking for your oppinion on the subject. :) I know your oppinion.
Just looking for some definitions …
Hi All,
Just got back from being stuck in the Canary islands with cancelled flights, was possibly going to get back Via Madrid in which case I would of contacted you DAH if you are still there, but managed to jump onto one of the first flights back to UK with the family, and arrived back via overnight hotel and 4hr train ride. Total chaos.
I see conversation as usual has been lively here and that old chestnut of orphan works has raised its head.
Good to be back anyway.
Cheers
All
Lassal,
that was part of the issue in the UK too, what is the definition of reasonable?????
I’m guessing that the definition of reasonable was intentionally left to be fluid, and adjust as technology changes. If a specific procedure to search was written into the law, it would have to be readdressed every couple of years, or force people to use what had become an antiquated effort. Still not totally cool with that language, but I can understand where they are coming from.
Charles, big congrats on SAM, the show is certainly getting a lot of play … now I just want to know what the Lusty Lady marquee will read across the street, although somehow I suspect the pun may be on the Andy Warhol show. Funny to hear everyone in Seattle getting nostalgic about the upcoming closing of that historic peep show. NPR even did a national feature on it yesterday.
Panos … you and your Leica fetish, I feel so inadequate wandering the streets with my little old canonet … now if Charles would just sell me that Mamiya 7ii no one would ever stop me on the street again and say, oh that’s so little, sweet and cute! Rangefinder envy is a terrible thing …
In our context (i.e. today), I would understand reasonable as using all commonly available technology, like search engines, databases, stocks to find the license owner of an item. If all of this fails, one may assume this item is oprhaned.
The question then is, if someone uses an item, like a picture, which is assumed orphaned and the owner claims a copyright infringment – how to prove the user took all reasonable (steps, technology, etc)?
Is this the direction you are looking into, Lassal?
Right, Thomas.
This way and also the other way around.
if not specified, I might find something reasonable other people might not.
So you would need this “reasonable” tools grouped (and up to date) on a central trustworthy page that would not only be the place to go for your search, but also provide some kind of documentation of said search. Something to prove you did whatever you were supposed to do to check for the copyright owner.
That is the only way I think this could work. Otherwise it would all be grey zone.
Lassal,
this tool exists.
It is called Judge and is used in lawsuits.
As artist, that means register your work with an agency. If you stand alone, you might lose.
Enter Metadata in your work, this is certainly reasonable to check the EXIF and IPTC Data for copyright information.
That is not what I meant Thomas … :)
And you know that metadata can easily get lost.
I am out now … will be back later.
About books, IPad, WePad, publishing and the like:
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=874309
http://wepad.mobi/en
Patricia: Enjoy your 7D! If you have the financial means, and you like the camera, that’s all there is to it, no need for any other justification in my opinion.
Panos: you said “why a need for a new more expensive?” why not? why does somebody buy a new car when the old one still works? why does someone buy a new bed if you can still sleep in the old one? why does anybody buy anything new? because they like it. because they can.
Wow, that WePad looks great. Too bad it doesn’t exist and will likely suck if it ever does. That kind of marketing is effectively dishonest and targeted to people who have no idea what open standards are. The IPad supports open standards — HTML5, CSS, JavaScript, and H.264. Flash is not open. Flash is proprietary.
PANOS
DAH shot Living Proof with a D70 which is pretty small and non-obtrusive. Why do you need a Leica, and feel the need to remind us of it? As far I can gather Leica is the most expensive option in 35 mm and for many can be seen as an elitist option. Not knocking Leica if I had the money I would get an M9 too. I just don’t understand your logic?
“I just don’t understand your logic”
Logic ?
Since when was that a criteria to use Leica :>))
Probably the unobtrusive nature of the camera counterbalances his obtrusive personality !
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/%28appareil1%29/346|0/%28appareil2%29/176|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Leica/%28brand2%29/Canon
hmm
2005 for the 5d..
actually – can we html hotlink?
click here
here is the ultimate in unobtrusive.
:ø)
Comeon David….
http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/2010/03/08/shipping-container-turned-into-a-massive-camera/
cheers
Ian
I guess if you use unobtrusiveness as a weighting and compare performance of the M9 vs D3 and EOS 1D Mark IV then you could argue Leica comes out ahead, but on pure performance it trails Nikon and Canon. I have been dreaming about an M9 for some time, partly because of its pedigree and the long list of great photographers that have used Leica (Nan Goldin, HCB, William Eggleston, Robert Capra, Diane Arbus, Phillip Jones Griffith, Leonard Freed, Alex Webb, DAH, I am sure there are others I have missed). Cache, plus unobtrusiveness = very expensive camera. As Marshal McLuhan said “The Medium is the message” not the camera. The question is, did the camera create the legacy or did the photographer? I think we would all hope and agree that it is the photographer. You could say that allowing one to see outside the frame could provide some advantage for capturing the decisive moment, but lots of decisive moments have been captured trapped in the viewfinder of an SLR, non? I just think the M9 looks really cool at the end of the day, just like a Porsche sitting in one’s driveway or a Rolex on one’s wrist (insert car or watch of choice).
Whatever camera.. if you don’t “see” it’s worth nothing..
EVA
Well said. HCB said to Josef Koudelka. “You need to protect your eye.” Didn’t say anything about his camera. : )
About obtrusive cameras… Nowadays the photographers are obtrusive… not the DSLR cameras… Unobtrusive photographer can shoot successfully anywhere with any DSLR camera… while the obtrusive photographer, most likely, will have problems even shooting with the smallest compact camera… Photographers that shoot digital don’t shoot Leicas anymore… except for advertising purposes… collectors or elitists… Leicas aren’t the best tools any more either…
” Leicas aren’t the best tools any more either…”
Why do they have to be the BEST tools ?
Can’t they just be one more good tool ?
ALL,
how do you make sure your work is not “orphaned” and by that put to the public domain?
good evening mr and mrs north and south america and all the ships at sea…let’s go to press…akaky pokes head in at burn magazine while akaky irl ponders the deeper meaning of pistachio ice cream and its effects on us-canadian trade relations…waves…renovation of egregious mold pit wherein i labor for my bread continuing forthwith…i am now buzzed on the smell of fresh paint…dislike the new colors intensely…light brown walls with a dark brown stripe along the top of the wall…place looks like it has been hosed down with chocolate ice cream…on the other hand, it does look better than the old walls and their industrial snot green color…this, however, is not saying much, as my puking on the walls would have had a similar effect…spots hot discussion of canon gear…must point out that all of my pix are canon pix…have the powershots and the xt and the f1 and the ftb and even the canonet [love the canonet but still wish it had a real distance scale]…going to get the t2i or the 50d next but i have not made my mind up yet…remembers ernst haas’ “leica schmeica, any camera can record what is in front of it, but you must learn to see!” or something to that effect…have no problem using slrs on the street in the big city…the ambient noise is so loud that no one pays any attention to a camera…have seen the hcb show at moma…growing a beard, which is irritating everyone who sees it and which is why i am not shaving it for the time being, even if the damn thing is irritating me as much as it irritates everyone else…wonders if anyone else has noticed just how much al pacino looks like roy scheider these days…visiting relatives stranded in the us of a by unpronounceable icelandic volcano will be going home on sunday…very nice people, all in all, but ben franklin was right-fish and visitors stink after three days…is tina fey’s daughter weirded out by seeing five story pictures of mom plastered all over manhattan or does she just accept it as normal; enquiring minds want to know…the niece is yet again astounded by uncle akaky’s lack of knowledge…finds having to explain who or what a lady gaga is just too much to bear [how can i be related to someone so out of it, she wonders]…you know you’re getting old when you have no idea of who’s singing on the radio anymore…hopes patricia enjoys her new toy…hopes panos his enjoys new hunk of glass…hope dah enjoys spain [never been there, but everyone tells me that it is impossible not to enjoy spain]…hope everyone enjoys their day…carpet guys at the front door…gotta go…akaky and akaky irl saying over and out…
AKAKY IRL: I did not say over and out, dumbass; I would never say over and out. What the hell am I, Dick Tracy, boy detective? And what’s with the ee cummings no caps thing and the Walter Winchell ripoff? You’re suffering from a stunning lack of originality today, bubba.
AKAKY: Would you just can it for once? I’m trying to get out of here before I pass out from the paint.
AKAKY IRL: As paint jobs go, this one’s pretty bad, if you want my opinion.
AKAKY: I don’t want your opinion.
AKAKY IRL: You like this color scheme, then?
AKAKY: No, but nobody wanted my opinion, either.
AKAKY IRL: The way of the world, guy. The people who pick the colors don’t have to live with them and they don’t want to hear from the people who do.
AKAKY: Can I go now?
AKAKY IRL: Yeah, I guess.
AKAKY: Thanks.
ah, Akaky & Akaky IRL, welcome back boys! I’ve missed you. ;-)
ANTHONY; “Unobtrusive photographer can shoot successfully anywhere with any DSLR camera… while the obtrusive photographer, most likely, will have problems even shooting with the smallest compact camera… ”
Never were truer words spoken… Patricia; use whatever works for you!
PANOS; If Patricia is advertising for Canon are you the I-phone’s marketing manager? :-))
A promising new photo portal out of Greece … http://www.art-if-act.com/
“About obtrusive cameras… Nowadays the photographers are obtrusive… not the DSLR cameras… Unobtrusive photographer can shoot successfully anywhere with any DSLR camera…”
Here are two examples where I could not have succeeded with my DSLR’s:
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2010/3/30/nantucket-coffee-bach-brings-back-a-memory-of-my-brother-mor.html
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2009/12/24/sarah-palins-wasilla-book-signing-people-in-line-animal-ball.html
And I get little things all the time that I would not have with the DSLRs. Conversely, I do miss many shots because of the time it takes to turn on, second + recycle time, the slow motor zoom, the limited zoom range…
AKAKY and AKAKY IRL I will second Kerry, welcome back, BRILLIANT as always. Now can we get Jim back? The pot is a little sedimentary.
Frostfrog; As the old saying goes; “there’s more than one way to skin a cat”… Cheers :-)
he he…As Jim would say:
time for new essay…
Ross – True, but even so, you could not have succeeded in either of these two situations with a DSLR. And I am very practiced at shooting in sensitive situations with a DSLR.
I’m not saying throw your DSLR away, but it is big, it is bulky, it is noisy, it is conspicuous and there are times when or or more of those factors are going to prevent you from getting a picture that you could have gotten with a small, quiet, less obtrusive camera.
“one or more”
By “succcess” I should make it clear that I mean success at getting those pictures or ones of similar nature. Certainly, you could have taken shots of the musicians before or after the concert. You could have stood behind the Palin designated line during the few minutes she allowed press to shoot under her rules, and a good, stalking paparazzi might have succeeded in getting a shot of her as she slipped out the building evading the main press.
i think the camera size has less bearing on getting a good photo, and the photographer is paramount.
it is far more important to either be acknowledged and accepted or work fast than to use a certain camera over another..
gildens street work could be done with an fm2 just as well as a leica.. all of my music work, with a few exceptions – close up or quick – was shot with either an f3hp or f5.. it has never prevented me getting the photos.. quite the opposite. there are plenty of leica users who do not get close enough nor quick enough.
it is far more important to be acknowledged and accepted than to be invisible.. acceptance leads to people ignoring whether you are using a big camera or not..
tight spot or not – once a camera is to your face you are noticed and far from invisible.
now.. you don´t have to put the camera to your face of course – something i rarely do in certain circumstances..
having used the leicas, nikons, canons.. even a hassleblad, at clubs and tight, hot venues there is no camera which has helped me more than another.
here is what larry fink had to say on invisibility recently, –
Looking at your work with people at parties and events, you seem to disappear. Being a big man, how do you and your camera manage to become invisible in such close proximity to your subjects?
Simple, I’m not a spy. I’m friendly and I care about people and shoot with honest intentions. People generally trust me.
bill frosty..
i don´t buy that.. and could have got those photos with any camera, given forethought.
frank M H
i would guess that a lot of those photographers chose the small 35mm equipment because at the time the choices for other bodies and formats were limited.. even in the 60´s and looking at the nikon f it´s understandable.
were i to be in the market for a leica right now i would go for an m6 and 4000usd worth of film instead of the m9.. and then, by the time the film runs out i´d hope they have a sensor which outshines the 4 year old 5d.
:ø)
who of us is going to tell olivia arthur that her work could benefit from swapping the hasselblad for a leica? or that gildens shots would be impossible with an f5?
it is time for a new essay for certain.. the chatter gets obtuse when it has been a while.
good evening mr and mrs north and south america and all the ships at sea… I love that Akaky!
No answer from DAH to my emails and I can’t carry on like this. His eyes are focused on other people and other issues. I have to get 100% back to work and on the job so wishing everyone a wonderful weekend, week and all the best for your entries for the EPF grant!
Someone suggested that I set up a Paypal account and people who are interested in my work can contribute but on reflection, perhaps I should follow the advice of one of the best female authors of the 21 century -Virginia Woolfe – who said it’s always best to be independent and self-funding. Otherwise those who give the money are in position to control you or play games of cat and mouse with you. And that is a waste of time and effort for both the mouse, and the cat.
chris steele-perkins at his best
PS Haha! I mis-spelt her name. Oh well, perhaps it’s time I stopped trying to be a perfectionist….
simon roberts interview
nachtwey with thailands redshirts
PS2 The Uganda story is on-going as are ALL stories. Here in Thailand the most powerful of images published, it would seem to me, has caused the government to declare protestors (or some amont their ranks) as ‘terrorists’. No story has a beginning and no story has an end. We are standing somewhere along that line between the beginning of Life on Earth and the end – which, to my mind, appears to be drawing nearer with ‘careless capitalism’. We are standing at a turning point in history and those who tell the stories rule the world. Please try to tell them with a thought for the future of Life on Earth.
Love to all,
Jenny
OK So I’m a perfectionist… here’s what I wrote without spelling mistakes (I hope) and with an extra thought:
The Uganda story is on-going as are ALL stories. Here in Thailand the most powerful of images published, it seems to me, may have contributed to helping the Thai government declare protestors (or some among their ranks) as ‘terrorists’. The man in the image DID look like a terrorist – with a gun and masked – but he was not surrounded by protestors nor dressed in the party colours. It was published in the New York Times.
No story has a beginning and no story has an end. We are standing somewhere along that line between the beginning of Life on Earth and the end – which to my mind, appears to be drawing nearer with ‘careless capitalism’. We are at a crossroads in history and those who tell the stories rule the world. Please try to tell them with a thought for the future of Life on Earth and not support anything that supports ‘careless capitalism’.
Love to all,
Jenny
David B; That Chris Steele-Perkins image is a cracker!
mouse eats cat, cat satisfied.
yes – but did he use the right camera ross?
eh? hmm?
:ø)
in the UK now, no matter what camera – you could get arrested for photographing on a beach.. as many have
JENNY…
“No answer to my emails from dah and i can’t go on like this…..his eyes are focused on other people and other issues”
surely you cannot imagine that i can suddenly stop right in the middle of whatever i am doing with “other people” and prioritize your particular issue no matter what it is…however, with the literally hundreds of emails that i receive every day , i went straight to yours…in the email you sent me there was no link…there was nothing to respond to, so i moved on to my “other issues”..later you wrote another email saying you had forgotten to put in the link…so obviously i gave no response to your first email since there was nothing to respond to, and only many hours later have i seen your second email with the link which i have been studying carefully..please remember that i am paying particular attention this week to my class at EFTI in the same way that i pay attention to all of my students as i did several years ago when you were my student in Tuscany..the “other issues and other people” that i am paying attention to are the readers of Burn who have submitted their work for our emerging photographer grant …i am paying the least attention to my own exhibition which opens tonight…surely the Marco Vernaschi story is indeed very very important….i applaud your sensitivities towards strong truthful journalism..the Vernaschi issue is one which would indeed take some time on my part to really investigate exactly what has happened here and to decide how best to play it on Burn if at all….certainly not a story that i would rush into without careful consideration because i simply do not know all the facts …….as a matter of fact from what i can determine so far you have stimulated quite a discussion here , which is exactly what this dialogue section is all about…..the nature of this Vernaschi story will not go away…it is important and will stay important…many thanks for keeping this story and others on the front burner for all of us…it is through the champions of integrity that all of us are kept in the light…and Burn will jump in and play its role when the time is right…and i welcome all of your efforts in a very practical way by helping to package a comprehensive story on the story….i will try to get an email off to you with some suggestions by early next week…
cheers, david
the cat just wanted to be bitten
Or a bittern?
more likely :)
interesting
While it’s a quiet I’ll put up a link…
As well as the “youth” project I have decided to shoot a “backburner project” too. This will just tick over while I concentrate on the youth work.
I’ve decided to shoot a body of work that documents New Zealand culture as I see it now. It won’t interfere with the youth project as I will shoot it when doing other work and happen to be in the right place at the right time.
I accompanied a mate when he went deer hunting last weekend. Hunting for the freezer is a big part of N Z culture (esp the rural area) so I need to document it for the culture project.
The first image _DSC0004 copy (of a tied up goat being used as a lawnmower)has nothing to do with hunting; it’s my way of documenting a NZ icon! Pet goats used to keep the grass down!
Just click on http://www.photoshelter.com/user/the-kids-are-alright and then NZ Culture gallery
Any comments welcome!
Cheers
or just played dead
ross – just been skyping with a good friend in new zealand.. he´s documenting his circle of friends and they have an.. interesting.. life..
from viking reenactments to piss-ups on street corners.. might be a good hook up for you to shoot or chat..
his blog
has contact info.. get him to by you a beer on me.
.. this one works ross
David; Looks good, will do!:-)
Imants; “or just played dead”
You’re just having flashbacks to your youth; playing dead ant in the middle of the road on the way home from the pub… Go on, admit it… :-)
on the way home from the pub…never did that we just stayed until it was back to art school and welding stuff
Hey Ross do you guys skin the carcass before you shoot it, those Kiwis sure have a way with things….grin
Yea we take the skins home, tan them, make a jacket, then go back up for the deer…
savages
The call it possum dreaming
DAH: Thanks for your message and sorry that in my haste to see a piece aired on here that I thought could be of general interest, I did not give sufficient thought to all you are involved with in Spain…wish you the best of luck with your exhibition.
DAVIDB & ROSS: Wishing you both an enjoyable day however you choose to spend it.
DAVID B…
new essay by tomorrow (just need to fact check) and new dialogue post as soon as i get back home on monday….
DAH – superb.. busy pondering the weather for now.
hail storm evolving.. lightening and all..
DAVIDB & ROSS & IMANTS: Wishing you all an enjoyable day however you choose to spend it, and tomorrow and the day after – perhaps creating endless childish comments??
jenny – how very dare you.
have fun.. (smelly)
For all those polaroid/film/largeformat lovers
The impossible project….
THE LEGENDARY 55 FILM
Polaroid Type 55 is a fabled, most desired 4×5 inch material with an
extremely high resolution for finely detailed black and white prints. It’s
a medium-speed and contrast peel-apart film producing instant prints and
is the only 4×5 material that features a re-useable negative.
This outstanding large format Polaroid Film will be delivered in its
original sealed cardboard box. Including a gas-sealed inner packaging
containing 20 sheets for 20 outstanding black and white pictures and 20
high resolution negatives. Four tubes containing Print Coater to fix the
instant images are included. While this film expired in January 2009, it
was stored in our cooled warehouse and is in perfect condition.
“how do you make sure your work is not “orphaned” and by that put to the public domain?”
Thomas, embedding watermark? Not that I’ve got a clue about it, but there’s an option in photoshop under filters, digimarc (embed and read watermark).. and now you’ll tell me it’s easy to take that out by anyone, right?
Lassal,
you might find this of interest re orphan works. Irish Judge declares it a human right to own copyright and that just because there is new media/internet doesn’t mean copyright should be endangered.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/19/charleton_eircom_emi/
Lassal,
during the battle in Uk about Orphan works one of the main representatives of UK photolibraries (and so called champion for photographers rights), was against the proposed legislation (eg they were on the photographers side wanting to protect works from becoming orphans) and then they turned sides we believe because they thought they might of had a chance of becomming a collecting agency for the government for use of orphan works… money muddies the waters
Sorry to interrupt the camera discussion…just I want to say…
hello BURNIANS…nice to see some photophilosophers back on my screen…
THOMAS.LASSAL,KURT…
AKAKY…no, you can’t co now…:)))
I feel like possum…a hungry one:)))
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ANDREWB…and to all of you …I definitely LOVE YOU ALL…
I will be back…sure
“perhaps creating endless childish comments??”and that was brought to you care of….. Jenny the self made prima donna come what about me, me me all rolled into one ……. laughing (aloud)
Hi DAH.
I can see your extremely busy with your class, and EPF, and others, but just wanted to let you know I’m ready whenever your free. I’ve got a Photoshelter account if thats OK for viewing?. Just wanted to know what to expect as far as notification so I don’t miss it when it comes. Would I receive something through SKYPE, or something else? how will I know when you’ll be checking through possible submissions and so on..
thanks David, and hope everything went nicely in Spain.
cheers.
peter.
Might be of interest to those who do the Facebook thing:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/04/facebook-further-reduces-control-over-personal-information
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2362967,00.asp
good luck tonight DAH! have a great exhibition!! looking forward to seeing the images…
hi all-
I just put up “Susan Meiselas – Carnival Strippers – 1977 Radio Interview by Jo Blatti at WBFO – Transcribed by Erica McDonald, 2009 with the permission of Susan Meiselas” on Scribbling in the Dark…
I love this work / book and her words about it are a treasure…
It’s at http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com under “scribbling in the dark – photographer talks and interviews”
and in case you missed it the first go around, an interview with DAH is there too :)
thanks erica.. got to go but check it out later.. great phrase..’scribbling in the dark’
PETER…
i leave Spain on sunday, so perhaps we can skype mid week…
David AH is there anywhere we can see some of your American Family work?
Thanks, Valery
dah
black
***
same as wendy, no shaving though..
David, I think you should try both, take a look in the big mirror in the hall! Or call 0736 and let me decide.
oh I see – well it isn’t NY, so maybe blue? more accessible…
did you bring your cowboy boots? :)
Black. Definitely black. Trust the women. We know things.
I had not yet heard of this but just saw that my website is included in photo-eye’s new endeavor, iPi – The International Photographer Index at http://www.photoeye.com/ipi_beta
“We are interested in indexing all important photo-based fine-art or documentary websites. The websites that are already included in the index have been compiled from various sources including important art magazines such as Blind Spot, SeeSaw Magazine and Light Work’s Contact Sheet, organizations competitions and exhibitions such as FotoFest, Center, PhotoNola and Critical Mass, along with photo-eye’s Photographer’s Showcase, among many more.”
Goes on to say:
We will be accepting submissions from photographers not already in the index when iPi is formally launched later this month. Please send us your email address if you would like to be notified when we are ready to receive submissions.
So check it out to see if you are already there and if not, email them at http://www.photoeye.com/ipi_beta/submit/index.cfm and e
EVA: Thanks for the links!
DAH: You wrote: “Surely you cannot imagine that i can suddenly stop right in the middle of whatever i am doing with “other people” and prioritize your particular issue no matter what it is.” No, and I didn’t expect that. One line such as “email received, very busy right now, intend to respond asap” would have been sufficient.
If you know anyone who is currently enrolled in an undergraduate photography program, they might want to check this one out:
http://mazzeogallery.blogspot.com/2010/04/rsvp-class-pictures-now-open-for.html
David Alan Harvey, (glimpses of the) American Family:
http://todayspictures.slate.com/20081023/
Does anyone remember the date of the Fiesta at the loft when Richards & Gilden spoke – 2008 at David’s after the Workshop?
I have Paul Fusco & Allesandra Sanguinetti at David Alan Harvey’s Loft marked as OCT 3 2008 Workshop Fiesta.
Was the Richards & Gilden night before or after Oct. 3?
DAH: Someone just told me I sound pissed off at you. Not at all! What you are doing appears to me to be superhuman. With all you have on still logging on here, doing the twitter stuff, checking emails, doing exhibitions, sorting all the stuff re. magazine and the entries and meeting people ALL at the same time -not closing ‘closing time’…. It is astonishing! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you do and are doing to support emerging photographers. You are so loved and appreciated and that will always be.
ALL: Apologies for being serious and snappy today, it is very hot, I am tired, very upset by what is going on here in Bangkok and of course, powerless to stop it. I also had a couple of very difficult things to deal with today. But still, what not to love?!
Hugs to all. xx
Erica:
Hi,
it was on September, 19th… Waw has it already been SO long?!?
badabing, badaboom…
September 16, 2008
http://davidalanharvey.typepad.com/road_trip/2008/09/index.html
David Bowen: “i don´t buy that.. and could have got those photos with any camera, given forethought.”
“Forethought” is not always a possibility and even when it is, it sometimes fails.
The concert is a case where it was not a possibility. I was a visitor in the town, learned about the concert by chance, knew none of the people, had no connections, did not know the layout of the rectory and walked in the door just minutes before it began. The sound of a solo classic guitar is a very delicate thing and in such an environment, no one wants to hear it compete with the noise of DSLR. The solo Cello is a little stronger, but still not to the point where it would be acceptable to compete against it with a DSLR. I know what its like to go to cover such events even when I have time to plan, when the hosts know me, respect me and are eager to help me get coverage, but still I have had to keep my camera down during the performance, and satisfy myself with applause shots, and before and after shots – because the camera made too much noise. In this case, my camera was completely silent, I could compose at lap level and never once had to raise it to my eye or disrupt the performance in anyway, acoustically or visually.
I also brought my Canon 5D M II on this trip and if I had somehow shown the disrepect to the musicians and the Bach that they were playing, brought it in anyway, found the same spot and just proceeded to shoot, I would have been acting very rudely. Even if I had not been asked to leave, I would have drawn many angry stares and murmurs. I would have spoiled the concert for many.
The second is a solid example of forethought failing. The Palin crew rented space in a public ahtletic arena and so declared it private. They set it up so that all who approached Palin’s table where channeled through a narrow, stairway opening where tough-looking guards inspected everybody who approached. All press were demanded to identify themselves ahead of time and once they did, whether they carried a camera, a notebook or a recorder, they were barred – except for a brief period of minutes before the signing began, when they were allowed to stand at a distance and take posed pictures. Certain members of the media who Palin who have published things that Palin does not lik were intercepted and turned away at the outside doors to the sports arean. They were not even allowed to be present at the posed portion.
There was a photographer who went about it just as you say you would have, with planning and forethought. He is conservative and Republican, but is a photojournalist first and foremost and shoots pictures to no political agenda. Until their big, massive, nation-wide layoff, he was AP’s man in Alaska for a long, long, time, well known and well-respected by everybody. You’ve seen his work, many times, from the Iditarod Trail to the campaign trail. He had followed Palin’s career from the moment she broke out of Wasilla politics into Alaska and then into national. Several of his pictures are in her book, Going Rouge. So he was there, planning, giving forethought, just as you say you would have done. He knew the terrain, he knew the players, and was on positive terms with Palin. Yet, they held him out. He could not penetrate their barriers.
Even at the end, when he thought he could at least get some post-event pictures, they prevented him from entering their secure area and they secreted her, unseen, out of the building.
I’m not saying what I shot of Palin was great, but I was able to get it only because I left my DSLR’s home and came with my pocket camera in one hand and Palin’s book in the other. If I had come with any of my DSLR’s, be it the 5D 2 or the 1Ds III, I would have been grilled by those guards and I would not have gotten the camera past them.
From your position so far away, you may think you could have out forethought everybody, but I think you are wrong.
What do you find so troubling in the idea that a DSLR is not always the best camera for every job?
I would liken it to fishing. Sometimes, the best tool is a fly, other times a lure, sometimes live bait, other times a net. If I need to carry the net to get the fish I want and do no damage to the environment, then I am going to do it. But I would rather carry just the fly and if I can, that’s what I’m going to do.
Tanguy – THANK YOU!
crazy crazy how time flies…
Erica,
you can say that again!!!
My laptop crashed 3 days ago, so I’m uploading heaps of photos on a new computer… Brings back loads of memories and that ‘cruel’ but undoubtedly real feeling: where has time flown since that time I played around with a b&w 16mmm film camera???
aahhh, man, crazy stuff ;-)
carpe diem, eh?
Chris Steele-Perkins is one of my favorites. His Afghanistan book was one of the first photography books I ever owned. That Blackpool beach image is so incredible for so many different reasons. If submitted today, I would bet that an editor would ask if that was a composited image.
David: just returned from your exhibition at EFTI. My mind is full of thoughts and reflection. It was for me a most memorable encounter. Not only today but also yesterday at the bar. After two years of blogging I finally meet you…and it was like knowing in half of your life already, thanks to burn and all your comments trough the years. Thanks also for the extra bonus of letting me in your students class and review their work. I even made some friends there!
Regarding your exhibition, I really liked. The old couple raising the flag for example, or your sons pic, very nice too. American family is pretty powerful ongoing project and i was lucky enough to see some of it. Some special words to Michael C. his printing job is truly amazing for such a young guy. Congrats to Mike. He is also a great folk, and best of all, a great and passionated photographer.
un abrazo para ti y Michael, ando hope to see you bought very soon. Thanks also for your advice regarding my racecourse work. I’ll take it very seriously.
Jorge
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8639240.stm
DAH.
That would be excellent.. looking forward to it.
cheers.
Peter.
Stumbled over this interview:
http://www.nyphotofestival.com/site/?p=9708
which was right on top of this:
http://www.nyphotofestival.com/site/?p=9627
don’t know if the links have already been posted here..
Erica, thanks for the scribblings.. David B for the links posted.. spent also too much time on Bill’s blog.. off to do what was left behind yesterday because of netsurfing, argh..
http://alphareporter.net/files/2010/04/who-what-why-when-where.mov
There was a photographer who went about it just as you say you would have, with planning and forethought. …
Yet, they held him out. He could not penetrate their barriers.
———————————-I’m not saying what I shot of Palin was great, but I was able to get it only because I left my DSLR’s home and came with my pocket camera in one hand and Palin’s book in the other. If I had come with any of my DSLR’s, be it the 5D 2 or the 1Ds III, I would have been grilled by those guards and I would not have gotten the camera past them.———–
Bill…thank you for the story..
absolutely agree…tons of examples like that..there’s not such a thing as unobtrusive DSLR…
True story..A fellow pro photog got denied access in Acropolis Parthenon in greece recently because he was stupid enough to have a 100-300mm attached to his 550D (battery grip attached also)….Nobody bother his colleague with the small camera (im not gonna mention brand ) though to enter …
Bill is absolutely right..
bigger dslrs, larger noisy equipment threaten..annoy…Not in a soccer game..not in wedding…not in a crowded noisy drunken situation…such as a birthday party…
And whats really funny is that most ignorants (talking public or police/guards etc ) tend to believe that bigger the equipment the better abilities they have to record..Try to enter as Bill said (S.Palin example)above with the old huge bulky dslr D1 (2 megapixel)…they wont let u…they(guards) feel threatened…BECAUSE you goT the good ol PAPARAZZI LOOK…
but if u have a little gf1 in your hands they think you are harmless..
laughing ..people are strange…im not saying its correct…but in photography “smaller” gets u access…
and “bigger” threatens and “forethought” works in weddings , parties,and events in general…
sorry
Well, as has been mentioned before, sometimes people won’t take you seriously if all you’ve got is a point and shoot. Sometimes the subject’s ego demands a big honkin DSLR. And lens quality matters, too. Until recently, that’s all I’d ever heard about Leica’s. And looking at so many iconic photos – you just can’t get that dof and clarity with a Canon or Nikon. Same thing with the Canon or Nikon compared to the typical unobtrusive camera. All that heavy glass is there for a purpose. Maybe all is just about equal in good light, but when the lights are low it’s no contest. Full frame makes an important difference too. Those tiny chips are problematic.
So best to have a variety of tools at one’s disposal. So oh lord, won’t you buy me, a small gf – one? My friends all shoot leicas, I must make amends…
see what happens when being obtrusive:
“Did you know that the Apple iPhone has become the most widely used camera on Flickr?”
taken from here:
http://blog.flickr.net/en/2010/04/20/finding-your-next-favorite-camera/
.. no, I didn’t know.. but remain of the opinion that if you’re picture blind and have got nothing to say there’s no cam that can do it for you..
but lets be fair…”small” does not always work either..;)
Eva..when soon fix the lag time in phones…then leicas will also look like bulky elephantines..dslrs are already Mammoth lookalikes..not just big they are Sally Mann /Ansel Adams huge..
its like wearing a CLOCK instead of a watch on your wrist…
dslrs remind me of Buicks and Caddys from the 50s and 60s…
but one thing fo sho..makes one look like a pro, serious, committed, knowledgeable…
theater always loved good costumes..
Ha, you talk about muscle cars like they were bad things. Well, I guess they were bad things. But like DSLR’s, they were fast. And speed, you know, means freedom of the soul. Who really wants to drive a Hyundai?
Not that small cars don’t have advantages at times:
¨What do you find so troubling in the idea that a DSLR is not always the best camera for every job?¨
i don´t find it troubling, as i don´t think a DSLR is the best camera for every job.. and never said such a thing, nor would i..
perhaps i misread – i was talking from the perspective of the actual picture taking rather than the access point of view – in which case any camera could have taken the shot.. no problem with point and shoots here – use them myself on occasion..
access has never been an issue for me, regardless of what camera i am using – having never once been refused entry or access for picture taking.. chamber music to orchestras or whatever it is.
i must be lucky.
But more often, this is your unobtrusive cameras/photographers:
i think many of the discussions here about camera choice have little to do with practice applications and more to do with snobbery.
canon slr or nikon – both
6×6 or 35mm – both.
big or small – both..
who cares?
it bothers me when it is generalized that a certain kind of camera is the only choice for a certain kind of photography.. it´s daft.
some equipment suits some shoots for sure.. exceptions abound though.. and it is a misnomer to state otherwise.. i think it shows rigid thinking.
And what about large format cameras? They are huge, man. Real bummers.
i don´t envisage a day when i teach a class that they must use a certain kind of camra for a certain kind of shoot..
panos – actually forethought would apply to any kind of photography.. whether wandering or working commercially, instinctive in the moment or concerning the planning of a shoot.
Skateboarding with a 4×5″ Speed Graphic and medical x-ray film (I.E. 50asa)
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_Nicosia_Cyprus_4x5.jpg
i must be lucky.
———————
…or cute;)
once i had a girlfriend , photographer also..
she had never been refused access either..but i had…;)
yawn
American family…very close and personal…
I Love it…cause it feels like everyone can take those pictures BUT…
it ain’t easy babyyyyyyy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXnI7ArDhJ8
What do i know…I am just a civilian …:)))
Yioupiiiiiiiii
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!
IF you want the camera to decide focus for you.
IF you want the camera to decide depth of field for you.(more accurately, if you want de-facto infinity ALL THE TIME)
IF you want it to decide exposure for you.
IF you want to be limited to good light, or have flash decisions made for you.
Basicly if you just want(or need) to point the thing in a direction a get a shot……….then use a P/S.
Of course there are times when its the right tool for the job, a point bill made well earlier, and yes they can and do make very good frames. And I think there are very few photographers who dont have one on them when shooting….but to say they can give you the tecnical and artistic CONTROL that a RF/SLR/DSLR gives is nonsense.
technical and artistic is in the pp
nonsense
John Gaddy, then you haven’t seen the Canon Power Shot S90.
Mmmmmm speedgraphic … still have soul, always wanted one and even more looking at David Burnett’s contemporary use of one.
Thodoris, how is that working for you, which model do you have, tips?, etc … I mean if we are going to talk gear, then …
Camera choice is extremely important. And I’m not talking about the minute differences between the latest Canon and Nikon digital entries but the choice of a medium. For example I chose to shoot my last big project on breakdancers with medium format (Mamiya 6 &7 and Hasselblad SWC) and a big Quantum flash. I could have saved myself a lot of hassle shooting 35mm (film or digital) but the look I got with the Mamiya cameras was unique and they presented a challenge to me and the work shows it and stands apart for that reason. Not saying I couldn’t have done it different (maybe even better?) with 35 but I chose to be difficult.
Some photographers choose a single camera/lens combo for their entire careers (Gilden, etc) and make it their own signature. Others are a bit more ADD (myself) and use a lot of different cameras (sometimes to my detriment). P&S I’ve always wanted to like but never have. Some have made them a signature (ie Terry Richardson) and I think they work for that. But trying to slip one into a major project shot with a regular sized camera they rarely stand up. Best to just get over the weight and bulk of a proper camera (you’re here to work after all, dammit!) and carry the best that works for your vision/job at hand (which actually might be a p&s).
Ultimately it’s the photographer that makes the picture, the camera merely records it. But there’s a big difference between the Edison cardboard tube and the state of the art modern recording studio (and everything in between). So chose your medium wisely – no wrong or right, just make sure to OWN it after you do, and not because you’re lazy or it’s the latest trend in electronics.
And post is key, esp if not more so with digital.
Charles, where can I sign that paper?!
Tom…
I have the pre-1955 model of this one:
http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/pacemaker-speed-graphic.html
It has a working Kalart rangefinder on the side and the Optar 135mm f/4.7 lens (the equivalent of a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera)—which amazingly is still working at all speeds.
It’s a great “little” camera and it adds a different perspective to the big-vs-small camera discussion… I’ve also used a Mamiya RB67 for a couple of weeks and I just cannot imagine myself been a “pro” back in the day working handheld with these cameras…
Now, as a picture making tool, it’s very nice and the Optar is very sharp… haven’t done any “serious work ” with it yet, though… just fooling around whenever I feel like it using this cheep x-ray film and having fun…
If you have any specific question, ask away and I’ll do my best to answer it… cheers…
David Bowen – Yes, I think we both misread a bit, for you are right, you never the DSLR was the right camera for every job, just as I never said that in the situations I referenced one could not have shot just as good a pictures with another camera. In fact, in both cases I could have gotten better pictures with a DSLR or an SLR than I did with the pocket camera, it just wasn’t feasible.
To clarify, I have not been denied access to any classical concert event, be it orchestra, chamber, or solo either – but on many occassions shooting during the performance has been prohibited, for the reasons I stated.
Shoot long enough, range far enough and you will find yourself with access denied from something, sooner or later.
ok…NEW MOVIE
NEW MOVIE
NEW NEW…
..with BEST MUSIC…
I decided to study the Artans…
Arta is a tiny little town (big village actually) in greece…
the Artans work in the morning then go for siesta (afternoon sleep)..
then they resume their lives around 5pm..
so everything in this movie happens between 5-7pm…
See what i saw..
feel what i felt..
music(soundtrack is superb…amazing)..
its from BOOBOOTIN…
Album is: ( THE RIOTS-ART CITY)
Tracks:
1)comuter human
2)jazz it
3)2000 days
John Gladdy “but to say they can give you the tecnical and artistic CONTROL that a RF/SLR/DSLR gives is nonsense.”
This is true, but, if you haven’t tried an s90, you would be amazed at the technical and artistic contol it allows you. It allows all the normal functions of aperture and shutter speed, including exposure compensation as does a DSLR. You are limited in lens range, but the glass that is there is pretty darn good. The biggest fault is that the lens surface is so small that a tiny drop or smudge that would not even noticeably affect an image shot on a lens with greater surface area can muck up the whole picture.
Also, being so small and set back in the barrel in a way that makes it difficult to clean, I think the lens is very easy to ruin.
It’s definitely noisy in low light, yet still it’s low light performance is surprisingly good.
Oh, it has many flaws that it does not need to have, if Canon only believed photographers would be willing the price should they build an improved model without these flaws. I get really pissed at Canon every time I encounter these flaws, but I often get pissed at Canon when I shoot my 1ds III or 5d 2, too.
The future, I am convinced, is in small cameras.
David – I think you are right that I misread you and that you also misread me a bit.
Michael – If I am somewhere shooting with my pocket camera and someone does not take me seriously, this is fine with me. It can be an advantage.
Eva – Thanks for wasting time on my blog. I am pleased. Drop back often and waste more.
And I am wasting too much time here – even though it is not a waste. It is fun and I learn. But here’s the fact – it is 48 degrees outside, the sun is shining, the sky is blue; it is so warm and beautiful and what the hell am I doing inside, arguing about cameras?
I am going to put my pocket camera into my pocket, get on my bicycle and go ride, ride, ride!
For me – end of argument!
Ladies and Gents…
i hope u enjoyed my little movie above ( Slow Time Lapse- Study of Artans )
now i have a SLIDESHOW to share…
I’m happy to present :
“THE YELLOW LANTERN”
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TheYellowLantern#slideshow/5463814070845028962
“THE YELLOW LANTERN” proof sheet:
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TheYellowLantern#
and of course,
“THE YELLOW LANTERN” YouTube HD (high def) version…
enjoy
Michael – If I am somewhere shooting with my pocket camera and someone does not take me seriously, this is fine with me. It can be an advantage.
Should I just give up on ever being understood? Probably. Or maybe there’s some kind of serious attire I could wear before typing? Heavy glasses? A gleaming wooden pipe stuffed with aromatic tobacco? Yes, tobacco, damn it. That might help.
Or better yet, I should find a more effective writer to say what I have to say in a way that anyone can understand. That’s the ticket.
Michael the solution is simple don’t write about camera gear
chasing camera gear
http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/bXitsH?authkey=Gv1sRgCM6l-7yxtJOrbw#5261948277645259074
talking about camera gear, I just ordered the GF1 with the 20mm f1.7. Can’t wait…
panos: the yellow lantern series is brilliant. now i feel like I’ve know this lantern for years :)
talking about camera gear, lets not
Yea, that’s probably the best advice. Unfortunate though. Occasional camera gear talk can be interesting. I thought Charles’s example was a good one. At least I could relate. Sometimes you want a look and a particular gear combination is necessary to achieve it. Figuring that out is like playing detective. But too often it’s people being overly defensive about their choices, or actually attacking people for their choices. Cue the violins.
Michael – “Should I just give up on ever being understood?”
You should take comfort in the fact my brain seems to be failing me and sometimes I don’t even understand what I write – although I always recognize that it is exceedingly intelligent and wise and if I don’t understand it, it is only because it was written by such a brilliant mind that it eludes simple me.
As for my part in this discussion, I never did intend to argue gear, to argue what camera anyone should or shouldn’t shoot, but really just to say that after I shattered my shoulder and got a new one and could take pictures with only my left hand, I discovered that I actually love pocket cameras, hate to lug around DSLR’s (partly, I suppose, because I have an artificial right shoulder) and that I have discovered that in many situations a pocket camera can turn out to be a great advantage.
But hell, I’m happy to have anyone shoot whatever camera suits them.
Wife’s knocking on my office wall. That means dinners ready.
It was a great bike ride, by the way, and I came close to destroying my shoulder all over again.
bill frosty..
20 years + shooting and not stopped yet…
thats not to say photos have always been allowed :ø)
Well, I have an interesting situation of teaching a four week rock photography camp this summer (they will essentially be photographing the rock band camp and an outside assignment) to grades 9-12. There will be no camera restrictions or requirements. Will be tricky, but the key I think is to coax out of each of them what they can with the camera they have. No level playing field here. If I find somebody who’s excelling, (or extremely deprived) I will have cameras I can loan in class.
Anyway, we have no idea how many (or if at all) will sign up. This is the first time offered.
Equipment is important and can be life changing/affirming – such as my long overdue flat files c/o Craigs List I stuck in the basement last weekend. Total catalyst for the new studio to finally come together. $400 I should have spent long ago – but also spent at the exact right time. Same feeling about the new $22 digital postal meter. And second monitor. Shit like that just makes you more productive.
Anyway, use what you got when you got it, don’t be embarrassed by feeling the need for more/different. Keep the expectations in check if you really think a new camera is going change your life/talent/vision/ambition/happiness. Have fun with it, store it, hate it, get bored by it and sell and move on. Or fall in love, find your passion, and then buy two or three of them. :)
CP
GODDAM…
i told a lie.. i was told to stop photographing during chemical-fueled play on a plane journey back in the ¨murky¨ days..
:ø/
charles – rock camp sounds a blast..
how to teach the art of excess and self medication though?
i guess sunny delight and the tartrazine rush will have to surfice :ø)
David Bowen – “20 years + shooting…”
You young, punk, kid!
“although personally I see it differently than Imants So Frostfrog how do I see the essay seeing you know???
Use the right tool for the job, make a judgement,familiarity,capability of kit,end result.
I worked with a photographer who shot an ad job shooting handheld from a helicopter and boats using a Linhof Technorama 617. He guy is gutsy and pushes to the limit not many others would have dreamed of using that equipment that way, but what a result……..
look at Nick knight he uses anything he can get his hands on including 3d scanners, Albert Watson has always said it is not the camera but seeing that counts.
cheers
Ian
BURNIANS,
keep talking about gear,cameras,lenses,books,drinks,friends…keep evolving, keep digging…
PANOS,
the yellow lantern…when you come by…bring one home,please…:)))
I am still looking for many…lost BURNIANS…I hope you are all fine…shooting your eyes out…
Today I want to Dance and jump …Come on …
Jump dance…. Junior Walker. ‘I aint goin nowhere’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL6SIAh2nqk&feature=related
This dance is dedicated to the Spanish friends who are BURNING with DAH…
VIVA !!!
“…has always said it is not the camera but seeing that counts.”
Although it’s true that that counts, seeing how to use the camera counts for something as well.
Totally agree Michael,
familiarity with your gear is essential. Being able to make quick technical judgements and adjustments is key.
Lassal,
mre copyright/orphan issues
http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/the-brave-online-world-of-linking-borrowing-and-attributing-or-not/
Salgardo interview
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0076jnl
Do anyone have pictures from David’s opening in Madrid???
Now which opening are you referring to intake or out-take
innuendo? at this time of day?
Roughly quoting Bobby Haas (from a docu screened in TV):
“A photograph becomes music when you can show the reader something that he can’t see with his own eyes.”
meaning that: we don’t see the world in black and white, nor can we, with our eyes, freeze motion and/or emotion for a longer moment..
Something about him and his work here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3339979n
Eva…?
Bobby Haas sells fake sugar..he is a multimillionaire..owns 7-UP, Dr.Pepper and many other sugar-cola companies that destroying young kids health ..he promotes tooth decay and a great living for all the dentists in the world…And of course he owns his helicopters , his pilots his gear…
And of course he is featured in the latest Nat Geo…He deserves it..
:(
Panos, yes, I saw this when watching the video I’ve linked to above.. (nobody forces anyone to eat or drink unhealthy stuff!).. he’s got tons of money, don’t think that’s a crime per se (depends on how you’ve gained it and how you invest it, but that’s another topic).. I’ve stumbled over him watching the docu, seeing his photographs, some of them are, to me, absolutely astonishing and beautiful, that’s all..
suprisingly the interviewer didnt enquire how much Co2 this guy pumps into the atmosphere just to make a coffee table book. 70,000 pictures from light aircraft and helicopters…thats a lot of juice.
Still he’s in NAT GEO so at least bovine america can look at them while they wait for the dentist to call them in from the waiting room.
Just remembered that today is “Worldwide Pinhole Photography Day”:
http://www.pinholeday.org/participate/index.php
…off to catch some light before it’s gone :)
Just remembered that today is “Worldwide Pinhole Photography Day”:
http://www.pinholeday.org
off to catch some light before it’s gone :)
nobody forces anyone to eat or drink unhealthy stuff!
I agree, why is everyone always so worried about bovine America? Porcine America has needs too and if it needs 70,000 photos and has to sell corn syrup to fat kids and destroy the ozone layer to get them, is that really a problem? More like a basic human right, ovine Americans agree.
(nobody forces anyone to eat or drink unhealthy stuff!)..
—————————————————–
ahhh Eva..u r a true romantic…I wish i could agree with u on this one too…
CIVI…thank you for the happy birthday wish – it was a somewhat long weekend….and I have fallen behind reading here with lots of travel – just now got caught up.
Is anyone following burn using RSS feeds? how hard is that to do? I’ve never used them but perhaps should learn….
Patricia, enjoy the new camera….I recently invested in a new camera myself – was torn between a GF-1 with an added optical viewfinder and a 5DII….saw a great deal on a 5DII and went for it, since I’ve always wanted to try full-frame. yes, it’s big….but as someone else pointed out once you’re identified as legit and accepted, it doesn’t matter much what you’re carrying. Still often wonder if the GF-1 would have been better – but of course, if I’d gone that route would be wondering the same thing about the one I did get.
A quote or saying I heard recently that I like … “amateurs talk about bodies, pros talk about lenses, photographers talk about light”.
I want to be a photographer. So I have cameras. And lenses. I try and use them to try and capture light to make (hopefully) meaningful photographs…..
Oh, and I’m happy bargain hunter today. I found a copy of DAH’s Living Proof at a library book sale for $4. Cover is a bit worn, but what matters on the inside is in great shape.
Andrew,
I am following burnmagazine by RSS. I’m using a RSS reader named Vienna. Just take the link to the RSS, and you get the latest information like email. Very convenient.
Andrew, I recall that you have a Gmail account – you can use Google Reader to track Burn via RSS. Just enter the URL, and it does the rest.
Also, left a message for you on the SLPS site a while back. Did you see it? Thanks, Justin
Here is my contribution to the Pinhole Day 2010 :)
http://www.pinholeday.org/gallery/2010/index.php?id=276
Justin Smith
Just went and checked my messages on SLPS site – I thoguht I had replied to your question, but evidently it didn’t make it. Just sent another reply.
MR.HARVEY,
may the Spirits of travel be with you…etctera,etcetera,etcetera…:)))
if you hate goodbye…just say hello…just a suggestion…
ANDREWB,
I hope there is a BURNING cake …somewhere:)))happy everything
THODORIS,
thanks for sharing…I Love it…!!!
THOMAS,
RSS…USSR…you are not an everyday man:)))
Innuendo=An innuendo is, according to the Advanced Oxford Learner’s Dictionary, “an indirect remark about somebody or something, usually suggesting something bad, mean or rude; the use of remarks like this: innuendoes about her private life or The song is full of sexual innuendo.” The word is often used to express disapproval
thanks JOHNYG !!!
We need more BURNIAN LADIES…where are my ladies??? EVA, I see you:)))
OOO
and from civilian heart…a big THANKS to all our SPANISH BURNING friends…for being so nice to DAH…
etcetera,etcetera,etcetera
We Love you All…
“bovine America”
not familiar with the term, can somebody please explain me? Thanks!
Civi, you need glasses, no lady here ;)
thodoris – that´s great.. anywhere to see more of your home built camera work?
d
DB…
Not really… at the rate I’m shooting it will take me a long-long time before I have something substantial to show…
here is something pinhole related that might interest you though…
http://www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art108.html
and here some more pictures and info…
http://www.flickr.com/groups/solargraphy6x6
enjoy :))
Here is some pinhole photography by Stéphane Jannin :
http://www.thesubstancebeneaththevisible.com/
He ran a workshop here and a Khmer photographer came up x interesting stuff I’ll try to locate for you…
And if you’re interested in Khmer photographers here is one you should know about:
http://saklapel.org/vao/gallery/Mak%20Remissa/
When the Water rises, the Fish eats the Ant; When the Water recedes, the Ant eats the Fish (2005) is an incredible set by Mak Remissa (much better than what he did besides that).
Talking about backyard photography…
solargraphy look interesting.. once i have a solid long term rented home i will try it.. norway is perfectly placed to get the variation in height :ø)
stephane is doing some good stuff as well.. camera obscura is much more my thing – often wanted to make a round camera with 4 lenses to gain a true panorama.. i knew someone who used a hat box for the purpose and it worked really well.
maybe time to get some boxes from the supermarket again.
DB…
This is a six-“lens” cylindrical panorama…
http://www.tzalavras.com/Pinhole_htm/Pinhole_Large04.html
there is a “problem” though… each pinhole projection being up-down/left-right reversed, the points of contact between each of the separate projections which make up the panorama don’t really “fit” creating a sense of discontinuity in the scene…
“Solargraphy – The art of catching the sun’s path through a pinhole camera…”
Aha…that’s my vision after a bottle of wine…winography…
EVA…you are right…I see no BURNED ladies…hiiiiiiiiiiiii:)))
MR.VINK,
where do you find those …links…
P.S…please,watch out…the lighting…
MR.HARVEY,
welcome back…!!! may your brief stay at home be…incredible…!!!
LEE,
wherever you are…hope you enjoy
THOMAS,
we wish you happy travels
GINA,
we wish you Happy Birthday
JASON,
thank you for the invitation and Bravo
Where are you BURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSS
HERVE,KATHLEEN FONSECA,KATIEEEEEEEEEEEE,MYGRACIE,OURPATRICIA,HAIK,LASSAL,AUDREY,WENDY,KATHARINA,ANDREA,LISA,
ANDREWS,PETE,CHRISB,STELIOS,ABELE,LAURA…SO MANY names…JIM…SPACECOWBOY
JIMMYYYY are you ok???
I am out of time
it’s closing time
Civi, I’m OK, just busy, but I’m always here :) Hope all are very well for you
thodoris – that looks great.. the lack of continuity between each of the lenses breaks the panorama into viewable chunks.. i quite like that..
what did you use for the 6 lens camera? guessing it was a round box of some kind or biscuit tin..
DB…
I used an empty cylindrical tin can (from instant coffee) as the outer shell to hold the “lenses”… then I built a smaller cylindrical object in the shape of a 120 film spool (on steroids) from plastic and cardboard that was able to stay put in the middle of the outer shell, on which I then taped the paper negative…
Civi: do you mean lightning or lighting?
thodoris
good work..
the paper neg / lenses must have been quite small.. fiddly stuff..
DB…
Ok, this is from my notes… the outer shell is 100mm in diameter, the inner cylinder is 50mm diameter (F.L. 25mm), making the length of the paper negative 157mm… and the pinholes are about 0,2mm
the best calculator I’ve found on the net is here:
http://www.mrpinhole.com
Civi, thanks :)
All, I am in Budapest Tuesday/Wednesday, during this and Tuesday-Thursday the following two weeks.
If somebody of you were available Tuesday or Wednesday evenings or .. I were happy to meet.
CIVI
out here, silent as always. VIVA!
Anyone with a book dummy might be interested in this:
http://www.fotobuch-tage.de/en/36/getpublished-award-2010.html
….looking for Panoski …where are you ?
Thodoris, thanks for the speed graphic info … i’m still looking for a good condition 4×5 pacemaker. There is quite of following of the pacemaker with the 7″ aero ektar 2.5 lens attached (David Burnett started a whole movement). The chief photographer for NASA makes specialty mount plates for it. I’ll take you up on your offer when I get a pacemaker, thanks again. Do you think there is there enough control/shutter accuracy for chromes with that camera?
Civi! I am here too, just very busy.. Working on a book dummy ;-) I will post some photos later from DAH’s opening in Madrid, it was a historic evening!
panoski…alert…panoski reports…..
Civi, red Aussie present and accounted for. Big love!
skype tomorrow …
CIVI–
Buddhist hippy street mom present and accounted for!
Running out and throwing kisses*****
Civi,
I am here too … trying to migrate from old power-mac to new intel-mac. Moving accounts, looking for my serial numbers to get upgrades, … doing backup … trying not to forget anything important …
But BURN is open in one of my browser tabs … :)
Thanks for asking.
So, while waiting for the pics of the ‘American Family’ opening I’ll post one of another opening.. it’s a groupshow for/with/from and about people we’re working with closely since a year now, introducing photography as a theraphy for differently abled people..
http://www.slowemotion.it/pics/riabilita.jpg
just back home…my travel from Madrid to home was so convoluted, that i must take tonight off…sometimes long trips are short trips and short trips are long trips…back with you in the morning to read all comments etc….
cheers, david
Hey Civi, I’m in Arkansas. Spent a few days with my cousin in Tahlequah, OK, Cherokee Nation territory. Got some amazing photos of my cousin and his wife for my series on body language of love. Extraordinary couple.
Made a granny smith apple/bartlett pie today that put me in a swoon. Fell asleep in my chair afterwards! Realized the ingredients on the pie crust (cheated a bit and used a frozen one my aunt had in her freezer) was LARD! No wonder it tasted so good! Eeek.
Thanks for asking. BTW, I think I may know who you are…
Welcome home David.
David Alan Harvey – I wonder if you might consider making an adjustment so that when I click on the name of someone like Lassal or the various links that people post, the new page will open in a separate window. Right now, they replace the Burn page. I would like to be able to explore the new page or site, yet still have the open Burn window sitting right there to easily jump back to without having to hit the backspace, which, of course, causes the new site to disappear.
Thanks. Hope your trip was a good one. Get your rest.
Frostfrog: if you’re on Safari, click cmd when hitting the link. The link will open in a new tab…
I guess on Firefox it is the same.
Bill…
as John said above…
also if you are on a pc hit Ctrl-click(link)
Thanks John (and Panos). Just did a test and it opened up your page and left Burn open too. I feel a bit like a dummy, since I should already have known to do that.
I’ve been to your site before and I will be back, but, just in case I failed to say so, excellent material.
….looking for Panoski …where are you ?
panoski…alert…panoski reports…..
Nothing to worry about. He was there all along; quietly inconspicuous with his M8 :>))
One BURNIAN…two BURNIANS…three BURNIANS…ONE MILLION BURNIANS…
reporting back from Tahlequah!, France,China,United States of America,Germany…South Pole…
Space…
THANK YOU ALL …I really appreciate your effort… to report …
you are busy doing stuff…don’t forget to submit…
MR.JV…THE LIGHTNING…
ahhh… dyslexic me…
Back to our regular program…I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLL
oh..before I go…
BURN LADIES…What Not TO LOVE !!!
Running like BOBBY…
anyone posted this yet?
http://www.nyphotofestival.com/site/?p=9627
davidb, yes..
https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/comment-page-36/#comment-67506
I have a question about the current essay. I don’t mean it as a criticism of anyone’s editorial judgement. I am just curious. And I’m speaking only about the idea behind the essay, not the execution. That’s why I bring it up here, not there.
That said, I don’t see any difference between Patricia’s idea for the essay about the gay couple and this. They are both about the depiction of typical family life. Again, I’m not referring to the execution, merely the idea. As far as I can tell, it’s the same idea. It’s like if someone wanted to do an essay on cute puppies and were told that it’s a really bad idea to photograph cute baby animals. Then almost immediately an essay is published about kittens and how cute they are. What am I missing? The execution, you say? Okay, but to my eye the quality of the current essay is hardly earth shattering. They are very well-made family photos, sure, but they are still family photos. Same as Patricia’s family photos. Different family, sure. But the same idea.
“This essay is more a result of editing out the cute or the posed images and examining what was left or unexpected”
Sure the comment comes later and probably contradicts the title and even the essay itself, but here is the difference “examining what was left”
“examining what was left”
That’s nice writing but I’m not sure how much it has to do with my question. Unless we’re going with “it’s all in the execution,” which would be okay cause it’s most often true.
“Unless we’re going with “it’s all in the execution,””
I’d say it’s all in the result..
Different family and not the same idea.
Maybe you say tomato, but it sounds like the same idea to me. Everyday family life. And although I’m okay with it all being in the execution/result, point is, Patricia’s idea, which was to depict everyday family life, was pretty much (though not entirely, granted) rejected before any results were in.
Again, I’m not criticizing any editorial decisions, just curious how things work.
Michael…
You’re a bit off the mark here…
For one, Patricia’s essay was not “rejected before any results were in”… on the contrary, pretty much everyone said beforehand things like “if there is one person who can pull this off, it’s you” (well not in these exact words, but that was the gist of it)… the rejection (or to put it closer to the actual reactions, the “you could have done so much more with this”) came after she posted a link to the edited essay.
And for another, the current essay’s idea is more introspective, the type of “this is *my* family”, while Patricia’s stated idea was more of a social commentary in the hopes of educating people into becoming more tolerant to a lifestyle different of their own…
There is a difference but you just can’t see it or you are being overtly defensive about what transpired before. Yes you are being critical
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
hmmmm, well i do not see it that way, but respect your response…although i would never do a critique comparing one photographer with another…i look at essays one at a time…..however, with Kevin’s work i see clearly a concept…an obvious conflict between husband, wife, careers, and the child they both care for…now, it is true that you need the words of Kevin to set this all up….but, we have those words….i see Kevin in conflict….and a real distance between he and his wife…at no point do we see either of them really together or should i say with his wife photographed in the same way he photographed his daughter…..and the child pulled between one and then the other…there is a story…Kevin shot this essay in a scant 24 hour period and i think clearly was able to establish this professional/personal split (she a physician, he a creative) in a very short time…..yes, they are family photos…yes, just another American family of which there are many with the same problems…careers vs. family…this work imo symbolic of this…and yes yes, the execution counts…what could count more?
cheers, david
Yes, David, I was just speaking of ideas, pre-execution. Certainly didn’t want to compare photographers finished work.
Guess I knew the answer –yes, what could count more?– though your details provide valuable enlightenment.
And Imants, you might take a moment and consider how you react when people ascribe base motives to you based on overly personal deconstructions they indulge in regarding things you write. Can’t imagine what transpired before that I would be overly defensive about? You haven’t been talking to my former girlfriends, I hope?
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
ahhh, the “pre-execution”…you mean the declared intent, compared with the end result? now remember , you have set up this declared intent bit, not me….but , if it helps i will weigh in with a measured response because yes intent/concept count too…so, this is simply about story idea/execution and not about the respective photographers….as you well know, i am a champion of Patricia and her work in general…so this is just about this particular story…well, i am not sure i can remember everything Patricia wrote…but, i am sure you can!
to the best of my recollection, which is often faulty, i believe Patricia said she was going to photograph a gay couple as an example of an ordinary relationship…the point being that a couple is a couple is a couple…is that correct? i do not think there was anything more to it…is that correct as well? i believe her point was that there was not to be any particular point…that a day in the life of a gay couple was the same/similar to the life of a straight couple…at the very beginning i thought this was not quite enough to be thinking about, but i waited to see the results because i figured there had to be an edge in there somewhere…
Kevin told me that he often found that his work as a creative person was oftentimes in conflict with the career of his wife whose career was “tangible” whereas his was “esoteric”…a common conflict juxtaposition…i always tell those i mentor to photograph “themselves” (as Patricia suggested she would do long ago)…Kevin originally was going to shoot a rodeo ….when Kevin told me that he just might not have enough time in the workshop to go deep into the rodeo, i hinted to him to photograph what was close to him..perhaps literally at home…logistically he could do this, and i figured that as a catharsis he should do this….i always try to spend enough time with everyone to get an idea of what makes them “tick” and try to get them to key off of something personal…in the end, it was not simply that Kevin and his wife were married and with a child , but that there was a career/marriage/love/child raising conflict…something to chew on….
for every good story there has to be antagonist/protagonist, or there is no story….at least not so far….
cheers, david
Thanks David. I’ve pretty much given up on ever having anything I write be understood here. I guess it’s my own fault. Sometimes I right “I agree” and mean I don’t agree. Other times I really agree. Still, I didn’t mean this one as negative criticism. When I wrote I wasn’t criticizing any editorial decision, I was sincere. Aside from “not criticizing editorial decisions” being one of my most important principles, there was actually nothing in this sequence that I particularly disagree with. No, I’m always interested in questions about story. That’s what this is about. Don’t know how I could have phrased it without mentioning Patricia, so probably shouldn’t have phrased it at all, eh? Was neither championing nor attacking her work. Or Kevin’s. You have much more faith in my memory than it deserves. I do well to remember what I wrote three minutes ago. Just seems a lot of the talk regarding Patricia’s idea was about the challenge of making every day family stuff compelling. Maybe I dreamed it. No matter.
Regardless, it seems that goading you, however unintentionally, has resulted in some good insights.
for every good story there has to be antagonist/protagonist, or there is no story….at least not so far…
Indeed.
MICHAEL WEBSTER..
did not feel were “goading me”……just thought you were looking for explanation which i tried to provide….nothing wrong with good Q&A…..
cheers, david
Gear talk?.. forget about Canon, Nikon, Leica and the like, forget about cameras and lenses.. here’s what you need:
http://laptopogram.tumblr.com/
Hmm… this is a printing method and not a picture taking/making one…
In a similar spirit (but at a slightly higher cost)… this is the real thing:
http://de-vere.com/products.htm
I have a de-vere 504, but with an ilford head rather than the digi head. Seems intriguing, but way too expensive, better I feel to make digi-negs and contact print them…much cheaper and more fun.
john
Yes, Thodoris, you’re right.. not picture taking but printing.. didn’t know the de-vere thing.. interesting..
John…
Indeed :)
It looks like I’ll be in Greece for a couple of weeks in June, and then in Istanbul (or is it Constantinople ?) for the foundry workshop… in case you find yourself in the general region in that timeframe (I know you plan to go a bit northern, but then again plans change), let me know…
Eva…
Yes, it’s very interesting… but it’s also *very* expensive… something like 20.000 bucks…
Oh.. well, that’s actually a good thing, nothing to consider then.. :)
Enjoy Istanbul.. it’s worth to eat at Ara’s Café, very good!
And another one here:
http://www.jensen-optical.us/no_negative.htm#PRICES:
this goes for 27.000 for the small model and 35.000 for the big one… and that’s only for the digital head…
Eva… thanks… it will be my first time there, so if you have any pointers from your recent trip, please do share… I already have copied and saved Panos’ notes from his trip…
Another one to add to the mix.
http://www.variochromat.de
cheers
ian
David, it’s true that initially I saw almost none of the things you found interesting in Kevin’s essay. At best, the text barely hinted at the story you describe. Now that you explain it, the story is apparent in the photos. Not exactly a new story, but deep and fairly well told. I think it may have been the word “mundane” and certainly the idea of “ordinary relationships” that connected the two stories in my mind. Maybe the important difference is that one relationship really is mundane and ordinary and the other is only aspiring to be?
That Austin class was exceptional, btw. Is there no other way you can show work that is done in your workshops? Like a special web page? Or a collection of links to sites where the participants choose to post what they did? I’m sure a lot of people would like to see more.
Hey all!
David B (I think?) posted the link to NYPH 10 (New York Photo Festival). I think I’m going to make it into NYC for friday and Saturday, would love to meet up with any other burnians who are around – locals or otherwise….
And in the fun technology notes, check this out! DAH, I think this would be right at home in the Burn Gallery/loft/kibbutz for editing and displaying of images…how cool would that be?
iPad, look out!
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/news/4217348
good light to all,
A.
ANDREW B….
yes, i have thought of the Burn Gallery coming to life during NYPH 10…easy to do IF i am in town…there is about now i would say a 50/50 chance of me being in nyc at that time…maybe Rio instead….anyway, all things possible…my schedule should be firmed up by early next week…
cheers, david
Here’s a link directly to the video….love how the table top pulls the image right from the camera, and then you can load it elsewhere….wonder what it would be like to do post production work on this thing….
http://video.popularmechanics.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050&bctid=933742930
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
oh yes, i had forgotten that i showed you the Austin class at the loft when we returned….yes, i am trying to figure out the best way for people to see these shows we do…one of the problems is that for the show we have music that cannot be used on the web….but, silence works too…anyway, i will talk with Mike and with Anton and see if we can find the proper space to do so..good idea…thanks
cheers, david
DAH
I will touch base with you early next week – I’ll be in Calgary, CA then, and then Toronto (Bob Black, calling on you too!) following week, then into NYC for NYPH 10.
Will help out any way I can in terms of coordinating or making sure someone is “minding the store” so to speak…plus want to see some of those prints that are for sale :)
good light,
A.
THODORIS…
please see if you can connect me to the man who runs Foundry…what an interesting program and i want to do a story about him, but for the life of me i cannot remember his name….i was in email contact with him for the longest time, but lost touch….let me know if you can help here please…
ANDREW B…
we might just take you up on your offer….with a little help from my friends , we could pull off a Burn Gallery show even i was not in town…
cheers, david
DAH
Just let me know – that would be great and would be glad to help. I have to decide in the next day or so if I’m getting there Thursday night or Friday afternoon – if that timing makes any difference please let me know and I will adjust. At this point looking for place to crash, will likely end up in Chelsea/Flower district area…
What’s best way to get in touch with you nowdays, knowing the email is often overflowing?
http://www.lightstalkers.org/eric_beecroft
Just sent you his email through skype…
THODORIS…
well, that was fast!! just sent Eric a skype message…if i do a Burn story , you might have to take the picture of him, class, whatever…up for it?
Sure I’m up for it…
As for being fast… i was working on the netbook all day today… so, whenever I got a chance I hit refresh on Burn… anything for an excuse to avoid work…
time to crash now… night from Nicosia…
Hi all…sharing some images…just click me…9h in zamora, spain…
THODORIS…
if Burn can serve as an excuse to avoid work(other than photo work), then i have done my job…..
Goodmorning from beautiful Greece…
the sun is out…
“Greece is struggling with massive debt…”
GREEKS…our Odysseia just started
yes, I understand …I ate many souvlakia, I drunk lots of drinks
…I danced all night long…and if I am responsible for the continent-wide debt meltdown…
then…YES,I am guilty…BUT…
I am a hard working citizen,I pay my taxes,I recycle…I keep the windows open and I Love you All!!!
BURNIANS, don’t worry…your Greek home is always Open and Dept-Clear…homemade bread,goat cheese,vegetables and red wine …on the menu…everything Organic…
KEEP IT UP…KEEP IT ROLLING…KEEP IT BURNING
Good travels …ANDREWB!!!
RODOLFO…ouooo…which century are we in???:)))
THODORIS,
Konstantinoupoli…Istanbul…bravo,bravo,bravo…stop for tsipro on your way…
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
ALL…
i want to give you something to chew on….
Anton and i are brainstorming constantly on the best way to put Burn out in print…..a classy collectors edition…we have done an edit and a layout…160 pages on very nice paper….it looks terrific i must say….whatever you think of Burn online, Burn in print will really solidify my original intent, which was to work backwards from the current publishing model…i.e. go from online to print , rather than from print to online which is what all the big media companies must do….we build our audience and content here, then take it to print…this is happening…
the conundrum is this: price and distribution….our original plan, and most likely what will happen with our first edition , is to have it produced by blurb and be sold on demand….this will make it relatively expensive, but eliminates investment money which we do not have , postage which is a killer, and a whole staff of folks putting magazines in envelopes and sending them out..
if we go the traditional printing route, the price of course will come down and Burn goes theoretically to more people because of the lower price….this would be the way to go IF we had a whole team of people working on it….although this “whole team” might drive the price up closer to where we would be if we go the “on demand” route…
what is missing in the financial side of this is of course either sponsorship or advertising….but, getting this takes a whole team too….again, driving the price back up…..
so, i think probably the best thing to do is go the on demand route even with the high price….for one thing, once folks see Burn in print this time for edition number one, i think it would be easier to get sponsorship for edition number two…or, at least that is our current thinking….we are also of course leaning hard on blurb to cut us a deal for a lower production price to make Burn in print a model of the new wave of publishing….
either way, without major advertising/sponsorship , payment to photographers for Burn 01 is simply going to have to be a token payment OR raise the price even higher to help compensate photographers whose pictures will appear…we will be contacting the photographers whose essays and singles we have chosen soonest to make sure everyone is up for having their pictures in the new Burn 01……
so, i ask you, as the content providers for Burn in print, what do you think? go traditional printing and try to pre-sell enough copies to cover the costs or simply go on demand and get out a really classy edition in the simplest possible way….if we go on demand, we are almost ready to hit the publish button…if we go traditional, we have a whole bunch of stuff to do and need to attract a team of helpers and the logistics could become formidable…
to think about this even further…..Burn in print is going to be more of a book than a magazine….something to treasure…..whatever we do , or whichever way we go, i will not have my name associated with anything other than a first class production…sure, many will second guess our choices on this that and the other thing….goes with the territory…..but, i do think we are making history here….
your thoughts??
cheers, david
David
Foer the time being: KEEP IT LIGHT as can be and leave the burden of spending money to the buyer.
DAH with such a wicked conundrum you might do well by getting in touch with http://www.dewilewispublishing.com/
he could be very interested to help out.
Cheers
ian
Sorry for the typo: For the time being etc…
Pre order list, advance payment? Large Run, outsource mailings
on demand for certain.. enough mags fold under the pressure of print and distribution costs and that´s the last thing that either you or anton deserve..
-since there will be no limited run it can sell and sell indefinitely
-it can get out there quicker and start bringing money in sooner
-blurb quality isn´t so bad these days
-less time pressure on you both
john is bang-on the money – why would you take the risk of 10´s of 1000´s by following the traditional route when there is now a contemporary alternative which has other benefits?
considering taking on the costs of print and distribution, as well as building the contacts and team to do it, is a full time business for a small team of people..
were there to be an alternative to blurb it would have to be an alternative where the money-crunch was taken at the risk of the publishing partner.. who also has a work-flow and contacts established.. aperture foundation.. whoever.. might be worth a punt.
far from being a shame, i think a release through blurb or similar would set a more interesting precedent.. so long as the quality is there.
hit PUBLISH n let the word spread :ø)
What kind of price are you talking? Also, I can usually be available if you need help with anything in NY. Consider it a standing offer.
Blurb it. Sure the price will be a little higher but this is exactly the kind of situation that Blurb is perfect for.
You could also bulk buy some and get a price break that way. You could them command a premium on signed copies. Either by your good self and or by contributing photographers.
As regards paying the photographers? I have no answer to that. A sponsor or two might help there.
I say Blurb it.
Sorry for type error.
Burn book no 1 photographers should contribute for no fee initially, if there is a burn 07 then they should be reimbursed,that would mean that it all is an ongoing concern
Why not build a little profit into the price and distribute accordingly to photographers? Maybe buy the production people a beer as well?
Hi David,
I think to blurb it would be best, with a link to buy it on burnmagazine.org and maybe also sell it at the
NYPHOTO Festival, maybe even at the powerhouse arena? Anyway Blurbing it is more immediate and I would rather something of first class quality, collectors edition book type, even if it cost more ( hopefully its not a $100, because then I could not afford it :-)) maybe knowing the price would offer some thought as well. If I were one of the photographers included in the book, I would not mind contributing the publication of the photograph to keep the cost down and to get it circulating more.
Best, Val
For the first edition, go for the Blurb approach.
I guess, as you said – once people see it in print, ideas and sponsors will come up to support a wider distribution model. Maybe even a model which works in different countries, to keep shipping costs low.
Like one publisher in the US, another in Europe and one in Asia … something like that.
But first the Blurb way… considering the price, I would buy two or more. I am sure, it makes a good and nice present. – A collector’s edition anyway.
About quality:
I only have two books from blurb… even though their print quality is quite good, their binding is such that you can’t really open them to view the whole pictures—and I’m not talking about pictures that go all the way into the gutter or full spreads either… admittedly they both are softcovers, so I don’t know if this applies to their hardcovers too… but the feeling of these softcovers is closer to a zin than a book…
About price:
If you think you have the audience/buyers/collectors and you expect to sell say a thousand copies, it might make more financial sense to “invest” in the Burn book (as in self- publishing) than to outsource the production of it… Your biggest problem I see for taking the self-publishing route, will be the distribution… have you checked with any specialized distributor for pricing?
As for raising funds beforehand, the “preorder” thingy seems to have worked for others before…
DAH:
I would think that print-on-demand would be the best way to to go at this point, for 2 reasons: lower initial costs, and easy future availability of the first print edition of Burn (unless you wish the first run to become a collector’s item).
I emailed Kerry a while back with a thought: HP runs MagCloud, which fulfills print magazines on demand. Since HP is a Magnum partner, perhaps you could persuade HP to provide some sponsorship for the first edition (of course, this would mean more of a magazine, than a book…)
Thoughts on the BURN BOOK –
-Keeping it grass roots and a project that all can be proud of is going to be hard given all the work that’s been published in the last 18 or so months big decision’s to be made by the editors ( Who are?)
So given that art is not a democracy there are going to be some noses out of joint for starters.
– the Blurb or equivalent set up is right on the money and fits in with the ethos and style of Burn and the reason most of us hang around is quite frankly we helped make it ourselves , so lets make a book ourselves?
– If Burn’s footprint is as large as I’ve heard surely the self made , ready to order , books on demand publishers should be lining up to pay to play via sponsorship of the initial imprint?
– again Burns footprint makes it possible to get books distributed , surely there could be a photography festival or art book store in every major city that will stock a few ?
or DIY and order them from a web site?
– As for getting paid , DAH ALLWAYS pays his debts! –
Hit the button DAH and don’t you look back no more, no more, no more, no more.
Hit the button DAH and don’t you look back no more.
What you say?
Hit the button ANTON and don’t you look back no more, no more, no more, no more.
Hit the button ANTON and don’t you look back no more.
well!!
don’t you look back no more.
you must be joking?
what you trying to do to BURN?
i came to talk it to Publishers.
i thought we had a better understanding
oh,BURN don’t be so chicken
you want to see me(mass-audience) buy
the Blurb…
ooh yeahh
My apologies to RAY CHARLES …BUT…I am had to answer…
The whole Universe is with US…
civilians of the world…I need you…
Peace Love and Photography!!!
as MR.VINK and PAUL wrote… sorry for the typo:
I had to answer…etcetera…
DAVID/ANTON:
this will be very quick…no time to write/read this week, as Marina’s show is this week (saturday)…
so, some quick thoughts:
BURN 01: go on-demand/blurp….it can always be replicated it necessary in the future….i think about Gary Knight’s DISPATCHES…which his his magazine but it’s published as a book (quarterly) i think…if you’ve ever looked at/read DISPATCHES, it really is like a great book, less like a magazine…something like Paris Review or others….and that how i envision burn…so it does look like a book…
since you dont have the staff, it makes more financial and logistic sense to do an on-deman deal now…see what the value/desire is….
anyway….
more later…so much to do this week…
hugs around
bob
DAH,
What about making BURN #1 a limited edition? That way people might be more compelled to press the buy button, no matter the price. And if you then sell out the first one, it is more ammunition for future interests in helping publish BURN. Possibly the pH folks?
Also, I think Imants is right. In no way should you be worried about paying photographers for this first issue. If somebody doesn’t understand that, then there are plenty in your archive that do. Keep the price down – it’s the only way to make this fly imo.
Best,
CP
And, oh yes, on demand sounds like the only way to go at this point considering what you and Anton already have on your plate. But do consider a limited edition (not sure how this works with Blurb).
On demand, but Blurb may not be the best.
GLENN..
i think i mentioned before that we have enough good content for three editions..yes, some noses will be out of joint, but i do not know what to do about that…no way to show our 18 months of publishing in its entirety….Anton and i did the edit…since we have worked with all of the material before, it was not so hard to take it down tight….Anton is a pro designer, but i always put in my two cents on design and will sequence etc…..so this has been a two person collaboration and so you only have us to blame or to love …no two people work better together in this biz than do Anton and i…never a personality clash,and the same bust it work ethic…
HARRY…
what better? they all use the same printing machine…and if Blurb does it, they will make very sure we are happy…they know this is going to be special
CHARLES…
this might be a good idea, the limited edition…because we will have no advertising, it does look very special….it will be a collector item either way i think….we obviously are trying like hell to keep the price down…we have zero profit in there for us or for Burn as it is….trying to get Blurb to cut us a deal…we will see..by the way, not #1….. BURN 01
VALERY…
we just cannot make New York fest i think…maybe…sure it will be sold through Burn and we will also be able to see how this goes down for a future Burn imprint of authored photographer books…..maybe we partner someday with one of the established art book publishers because at this point we may have on Burn better distribution than they do…many many possibilities…
cheers, david
For the first dip in the waters I’d have to agree, keep it simple.
If part of BURN’s mission to explore new ways of presenting photography while being a light-on-its-feet organization run by dedicated part-time creative types, then using Blurb makes perfect sense. The point, too, is not the book production but the distribution channel, which Blurb provides and is easily accessed by BURN. I think David and Anton make a statement by using Blurb about the viability of such production in photography, instead of being at the mercy of a traditional press. In other words, why should David have to make a pitch to powerHouse or Aperture or whomever and convince them of the viability of his idea, and then negotiate a proper contract for all the contributors, how do we deal with a publishing schedule that releases the BURN book a year and half from now, what happens when the book is remaindered, etc.
Personally, I think paying people for their work is an important principle. I would consider adding $3 to $5 to the price and splitting it up among the photographers and production people. If you sell 1000 copies, that would result in a check that would be significantly better than nothing. Maybe enough for a dinner out.
The onus for this $3 to $5 would not be on the Burn staff or contributing photographers. It would be on the buyers. If the market for this particular book won’t spare 3 bucks to pay for this kind of content, that is a bery, bery bad sign for us all.
MICHAEL,
It is an important principle, but alas there are already many many young photographers out there doing commercial work for nothing or next to nothing for magazines/etc so as to increase their portfolio. And this for clients that have major corporation ad revenue. If photographers can’t see how special BURN is and waive a repro fee (the work is already done anyway), then we really are in trouble! If this isn’t a high profile portfolio piece then I don’t know what is. Photographers annually pay large sums to publications such as Alt Press and Black Book to have their work shown to AD’s and creatives. Here they are getting it printed for free. And the dirty little secret of the book world is often publishers make photographers/artist pay to do their book (which behooves the photographer to find some sort of corporate backing). So keep in mind BURN is going this alone. Also, paying many different photographers adds another level of work for DAH/Anton. Esp as one never knows how this might go. Maybe they’ll sell 1000 books overnight – or maybe six months later they’ve only sold 300. Who knows?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about getting paid for one’s work. But if there isn’t a more special situation than this one then I don’t know of it.
Ok… since the consensus seems to be “the best way to go is print on demand” I’ll make the argument for self-publishing (since you asked us to chew on it), may I?
Taking Blurb as an example, for a 160page hardcover on their Premium Paper, their starting price is 44 bucks per book for the smallest size… and that’s without taxes or shipping. Do not know how big a discount you could get from them, but the way I understand it such discounts are offered to the buyer when he/she orders many copies at once… maybe you’re talking for a different type of deal/discount though…
Now, if you were to produce a relatively small run (say 1000-2000 books) using a traditional printer/binder service, your cost for a book of similar characteristics (number of pages, paper weight, hardcover, dust jacket) in an A4 size, could be you as “little” as 15000-20000 bucks—for the whole run… that’s one third of the minimum blurb price, when comparing the per book cost…
Now… and this is the bottom line in my mind, as far as cost is concerned…
If you’re uncertain of the demand your book might have, then Blurb is the safest way to go. Blurb is an amazing option if you want to produce a few copies of your book.
If on the other hand, you feel confident that your book will sell at least half of its run right off the bat, then blurb is not the best option for you.
Now… all the above is about production cost alone…
Reasons to avoid self-publishing include…
Requires you (DAH/Anton) to *find* a printer/binder combo who you can *trust*, have to go through the hassle of choosing paper and other materials between a hundred options instead of two/three, have to *be-there* for the actual printing in order to make any last minute corrections, have to find a place to *store* all those books and have to find a working way of *distributing* them (fulfilling orders) among other things…
All these, Blurb will take care for you… but at a cost…
Finally, if you can find someone to take care storage and distribution for you for a reasonable price, then self-publishing might still be the way to go… and of course, the negatives of self-publishing you’ll have to do only once (if you’re lucky)… meaning, you’ll be able to use the same people/process for the Burn-2, Burn-3 and so on…
My two cents…
Well… that looks more like three cents after all… :))
payments for photographers for this first issue is not a priority as i see it, since plenty of collection books out there actually charge the photographer for submission..
as i see it this book will have a serious chunk of the commissioning / publishing industry looking at it and as such could be construed as a catalogue of sorts.. a resource as well as a collection of contemporary work.
i would really love to think it could be self published, as thodoris details above.. blurb can seem hit n miss.. bindings, colour corrections and the like depending upon where in the world you are living and ordering from.. except for the 10’s of 1000’s needed, the risk involved and the storage / distribution the achievement of self publishing would be great…
however, the more these issues are thought through the more prohibitive they seem, at least for the first issue and if it is to be done without the support and investment of an established distributer.
the ideal of large backing, easy access to international markets.. stocking in art n book shops.. is not really applicable to a book which has grown from a website.. by virtue of burn being a website the people most likely to buy first off will be web users.. blurb would serve that purpose just fine.
also – limited edition wise – some signed copies might work – but it is really that important? burn is pretty widespread and growing.. i like the idea of non-exclusive.. in so much as just because someone has not heard of burn yet, does not mean they should miss out on the first issue.. let them buy the book in a year.. two years.. five if they want to.
it’s not about resale value after all.. nor the prestige of rarety as i see it. you know – i love my rare books and albums for selfish reasons and thats not burn. these are concerns for the too-proud buyer..
it is about connecting with as many people and over as long a period as is viable..
Charles, I respect your opinion and your reasons make good sense, particularly the extra work aspect. If David and Anton go that route, I’ll have no problem with the decision for most of the reasons you mention. But since at this point, it’s just gathering opinion, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
There is only one point you make that I am uncomfortable with. I am sure photographers would accept the wonderful opportunity to be published in the inaugural issue of Burn Hardcopy, I know I would, but as I said, I don’t think the onus should be on the photographer. It’s a similar argument that is used for industrial safety regulations. Sure, plenty of desperate people would be happy to get a job working in a coal mine without any kind of safety regulations, but that doesn’t justify government not providing for their safety. Do we really want photographers dying of black lung? Calm down, I’m just kiddin. I know where everybody is coming from and respect whatever decision is made. There are no easy answers.
Regarding self-publishing, those are Thodoris makes some interesting points. Finding a fulfillment house is no big deal. Sounds like self-publishing would be best if someone has the $20K or so to put out upfront. Otherwise…
DAH all,
My post earlier was brief due to the issues of the latest photostory published here, wife away for the week, me trying to entertain/educate/feed kids and work.
i shall quickly dip in again I mentioned Dewi lewis because all of the arguments TT put forward the self publishing is cheaper but there is huge hassle with distribution etc, why not partner with an experienced distributor who knows the game and has the contacts. I am sure there is a bugeoning latent demand for this book and it will sell well if all we hear about the hit rates on this site are true.
Print on demand pushes cost up hugely, but maybe if DAH can strike a great deal it could be the way to go. With Blub you might be ridding yourself of the hassle of storage and distribution but do you get the experience/contactcs/networking of working with an established publisher.
2ps worth got to run kids to feed.
I
THODORIS…
everything you wrote are exactly the things we have gone over many times and you are quite correct except that the price difference gets closer and closer to the same number for printing vs. blurb when you add postage, storage, and staff costs…when you add it all up a blurb book still might cost 20% more, however minus the financial investment/risk….
what i am thinking is that if we do get a good deal from Blurb then the price diff gets to the point where on demand really makes sense from every perspective…i have worked with printers many times on the production of books….i am sure you know this is a very full time job to stay on top of this with many unknown variables…honestly, the extra cost of having Blurb do it, if you figure in the man hours it takes to go traditional, it might really balance out almost even…
you had mentioned binding before…the prototype i am looking at for the Blurb quality we want seems indestructible…i have literally been at home today trying to tear this copy apart with no success…to lay flat however, requires a very expensive sewn Smithson binding which any of us should want for our coffee table books , but which is not practical for any magazine format….
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
as you well know, or as you well should know, i have been trying these last two years to figure out ways for photographers to get paid one way or another…and Burn has distributed almost 50k so far as payment for a few in the form of grants….i have proposals now in to several sources to try to make this a reality for Burn on a regular basis for publication…so, of course i agree with you in principle …however, i am not sure adding 5 bucks to the price of the Burn 01 book/magazine does much good..is it really worth it to give every photographer published 25 bucks (if we sold 500 copies) for compensation with a 5 buck add on to an already expensive book?..what if this makes it just too too expensive for the potential buyer? if the photographers look at this as a book , instead of an advertising filled magazine (where payment would be easily commensurate) then i think they might forgo payment….i surely make no money even on the well distributed books i have done from major publishers…without advertising, there just isn’t any money….i do not have an ax to grind one way or another…neither Anton nor i nor Burn Inc. are expecting any compensation whatsoever…i am simply trying to keep the price down to make it somewhat affordable….but, yes , if there is profit, then photographers should profit share…a concept my colleagues and i have been fighting for our entire careers…
cheers, david
IAN AITKEN…
well partnering with an experienced publisher may in the long run be the way to go…this may of course involve months of negotiations etc etc..we are in no hurry, but those kinds of negotiations are why i am a photographer and not a businessman…makes my head hurt…selling a story idea is one thing…selling a distro system is another…one of the reasons of course that even some established publishers are flirting with us is that because of our presence now on the net, we might just have their distribution system beat…..more likely however, a combo of online sales and select bookstore placement is the way to go..hence worth taking a careful look at your suggestion….
cheers, david
OK so if its a blurb.
no hidden overheads.
postage etc.. covered by buyer.
content already sourced (maybe need higher res but…)
lets say you sell 1000 copies; not an unreasonable expectation, but fuck it lets be conservatives and say 500. at $40 a pop…..thats a chunk of change.
so maybe 50% goes into burns account to keep the show on the road.
DAH and Anton (and anyone else who put graft in on this) take a fair wage out of it, say 30% of gross.
That leaves 20%, or on 500 copies about $4000 if my maths are right. So unless there is a cost I am missing, or unless the projection is for WAY less than 500 sold (which I kinda doubt, but who can tell)
making a commitment to splitting this amount with the photographers involved(say after a certain total sales target has been reached) seems like a good and fair model.
Am I missing something?
overly optimistic maybe?
Anyone?
John
David, yes, I well know and greatly respect your position on all these issues. But you asked and that’s my feelings on the issue. Again, I realize there are no easy answers and have no problem with any decision you would realistically make. You guys are saints, as far as I can tell (I mean that in a good way, not like those formally canonized saints, most of whom were assholes or idiots or, at best, just plain boring). I don’t mean to grind any particular ax either, but would love to see you all get at least a little compensation. But deferred compensation on spec is the reality for creative types these days. Too bad lawyers and bankers and hedge fund managers don’t work that way, eh? Anyway, I trust those who say good things will flow from publishing/being published in Hardcopy Burn are right. It’s a great opportunity.
Ever since I helped a friend of mine cart 1500 oversized photo books he self published into his house I would NEVER EVER self publish and try to distribute a book. Writing the check to the publisher was actually the easiest part of the whole process. It’s what happens after the ship comes in that is a serious PITA and best left to the pros.
MICHAEL,
I really don’t see how, in the case of BURN, there is any onus on the photographer. It is on a submission base to begin with so if you don’t want to play, don’t submit, simple as that. It should actually be a matter of pride to be chosen to be included, online or in print, and is one of the reasons DAH is able to present the type of work he does here, because on one else would even dream of paying or publishing much of it (which is too bad, but the way it is).
Now, when it comes to money making operations abusing photographers don’t even get me started…:) Can you say Guccione Jr?
BTW, ever notice how OSHA never regulated the use of photography chemicals. Talk about black lung….
best,
CP
JOHN GLADDY…
yea, you are missing something…as Thodoris mentioned earlier the cost of production alone on a $50. book is either $25. for traditional or $45. for Blurb…more or less, i am trying to make it easy to understand…the sales price for both would be say $50….however, the margins on the traditional are eaten up by postage, storage, man hours of production, and the cost of distribution..so 5 bucks of “profit” coming in on the sale of 1000 books either trad or blurb is 5k..not a lot to spread around amongst the photographers….and 1000 is wildly optimistic….what we would like to do is to get Blurb to either give us a helluva discount or a bunch of free copies to distribute to schools, universities, traditional press outlets etc….
cheers, david
DAH,
totally agree about the head hurting when it comes to negotiating……
Tough call alround.
As an example I printed a whole load of cards and prints to sell in small galleries etc just at the turn of the recession. Initial uptake was good then recession started kicking, and then doing the rounds selling tiny amounts of cards and prints hardly covered petrol costs. I tried to do the whole lot from production to sales and distribution. I am a terrible negotiator and a not so good salesman, hence left with a stack of stored high quality printed material. Distribution/sales outlets are key. If you are confident in the power of Burn as a distribution network it seems to make sense to go down the publish route rather than print on demand.
Also is there added kudos in being published by a respected publisher rather than using an on demand service, or have these barriers been broken down?
Cheers
I
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
again, your feelings ARE my feelings…our respective emotional sense of justice for value of work…i am simply trying to figure out how to match money with these feelings/emotions and imagine where it would come from…
Anton and i are not saints….we hate saints..smiling…but we are simply working for the pride of it all….maybe others will feel the same…or, if all the photographers who are being considered for publication say “no way jose”, then damn let’s just all go get a beer….
one other thing you should know however, and maybe you have already thought of this…the books i do “for free” basically, do in the long run contribute to my business, albeit indirectly…and similarly,many of the unpaid photographers here on Burn have used publication here as a real springboard to paying jobs or print sales or career advancement of some type…
the very best i ever look in print, are for sure in the publications where i make no money at all….
some things done for passion can turn into love and love can turn into a long term relationship…you never know….but, worth trying?
cheers, david
charles is right – being selected for inclusion in the burn book, issue one needs to be percieved as an award of sorts in..
it is certainly one occassion when reproduction value is in inclusion itself rather than the small contribution to the snappers rent… there are many magazines good for that kind of sale – inclusion could be more about selling the photographers in burns case, rather than the issue / point of view / product they are editorializing.
Charles,
“Ever since I helped a friend of mine cart 1500 oversized photo books he self published into his house I would NEVER EVER self publish and try to distribute a book. Writing the check to the publisher was actually the easiest part of the whole process. It’s what happens after the ship comes in that is a serious PITA and best left to the pros.”
Too right, if you are going to self publish get a pro involved with the distribution and selling, cost bucks but will pay dividends.
DAVID. Shows how my maths suck. Its been a long day.
john
DAH…
I hear you… have a couple more arguments for the self-publishing route, but I think you have made your mind to give print-on-demand a go… It certainly is the safest way to go for the Burn-1…
For what it’s worth, I’m happy to report that I’m almost half way there in self-publishing my first monograph…
David, I am sure you have thought about this but … it would be great to see this also released as an e-book through ipad, or the other options out there I really know nothing about … obviously the production cost is minimal, the “profit” could be turned back into BURN, and I would think this could be attractive to Steve, or Jeff, or others out there making big pushes right now for market share (and Amazon has done some direct to e-book deals) … emerging photographers meet emerging markets. Again, this would not be a replacement for a printed piece but in addition to ….
Interesting discussion regarding ipads, kindles, et al from yesterday’s Fresh Air … http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126196977
“Amazon has actually made some deals with authors — Stephen Covey is one — and has actually approached authors and editors to try to hire editors to work for Amazon and to procure books for them. [And they’re] offering authors a much larger commission than the commission they get from hardcover publishers.” – Ken Auletta, The New Yorker.
Tom…
Were you the one who brought up the boat/truck camera a while ago? Tried to find it in the archives but failed…
David, I have several contacts in the printing industry in Des Moines, from prepress to printing to fulfilling. There would be some upfront costs, but the overall costs would be lower than Blurb. If you’d like me to ask, let me know.
Thodoris, yes, i know a guy (a wooden boat builder and large format photog) who has the lens from an old newspaper page camera, big sucka … I think it will work well for conversion to a trailer camera. The hard part comes with incorporating actual movements into the design which, as far as I know, has not been done on such a large scale, at least not lately. We need to do some testing on the lens to make sure this will work. I tend to make things too complicated but hey, my brother is a nuclear engineer so it’s probably genetic.
Also, I replied earlier regarding the press camera but I think it was lost in the spam filter … thanks for that info., that’s the same camera I’m looking at … want to get an aero ektar 2.5 for it. David Burnett started a whole movement.
David, so the very, very special hand-made Burn book edition is not a consideration …? ;-))
Tom…
A few days ago I was looking at freestyle for some 120 film, and I stumbled upon the following and thought of your camera-to-be:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/22261-Fotokemika-Efke-BandW-Positive-Paper-RC-Matt-16×20-10-sheets?cat_id=502
Don’t know if you could order it in roll form too, but there is always the “traditional” paper negative solution:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/9874030-Kentmere-Select-VC-RC-Glossy-42-Inch-x-30-Feet?cat_id=501
also, there is this orthochromatic film (but it’s quite thin, and will probably be a hassle to handle):
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5222410-Arista-II-Ortho-Litho-Film-24-inch-x-100-ft.-roll?cat_id=406
and as for the “keeping it flat” issue… I thought you could use a vacuum easel… they were used in the big commercial darkrooms in conjunction with those massive horizontal DeVere and Durst large format enlargers… you could maybe find one on ebay, or you could build one yourself… the basic idea is simple… an air tight slim box, with one side perforated (where the back of the paper will be placed on) and one hole on the side of it where an air pump is connected sucking the air out of the box, keeping the paper flat…
David,
Practicality, and reality, suggest to me that you should go the Blurb route.
Even if you could miraculously come up with $10K cash and a team of Saints to handle
tasks from production to distribution to produce a traditionally printed book I don’t believe
enough books would sell to ever break even.
The ‘hardcore’ community of Burn is pretty limited in number, at least in terms of bankrolling
a project of this magnitude, so there would be very few guaranteed sales.
What about considering something more affordable and, perhaps, more regular like a magazine ?
http://magcloud.com/
AS i stated before photographers payment, see it as comparative study in contemporary photography and how one’s work fits in the scheme of things…….or call it your contribution to keeping burn afloat and giving yourself a platform in the www dot world and a place to discuss your bullshit
Thodoris, cool thanks. Yep, vacuum easel is the plan, solar powered with panel on the roof of the camera … i know where I can pick one up cheap, newspapers used them to burn plates but many are now going direct-to-plate bypassing negatives altogether. I used to have one but it was sold, never thought I’d need one again :)) Now if I went wet plate it wouldn’t be an issue but … not a fan of ether in small doses let alone large ones. Then again, a 1 meter glass plate would be a thing to behold …
Tom…
Cool… I’m very curious to see the pictures you’ll create with your “little” monster of a camera…
‘night…
all:
on the issue of compensation for photographers…a quick (very quick) note:
later this year, i, marina (and others, but i cant say) will be published in an important book. as part of that book, we were asked to donate prints for the publication and relinquish all claims on sales of the book as all proceeds of the book will be donated to a very important human rights/human care organization. There are some significant/famous photographers in that book. We did this to support not only the creator/editor of the project (himself a great photographer and caring person) but also to use our work to help these organizations which will benefit from the proceeds of the book. It is a labor of love and we felt honored to have been asked to be a part. It also helps (and i do not suggest this with any cynicism at all) to promote our work, our lives as photographers. It is just an honor to participate.
I feel 100% the same with Burn. I would, if invited, give David/anton use of my pics/essay to publish in any way they sit fit without an expectation of renumeration and that is NOT because we’re famous or rich (far far from both, frankly). but because Burn is a magazine a believe in and David/Anton’s project is a project i personally stand beside, as a friend, as a photographer and as a lover/promoter of photographers. I’ve published and been paid and i’ve been published and not been paid. i’ve exhibited and sold and exhibited and not sold. For me, it’s a big picture idea:
how does one continue to support/promote photography/photographers and continue to support themselves: creativity and vision. I felt truly honored to be a part of Burn from the beginning (and i’ll have something for them soon too :)) ) and i felt honored to have been asked for something from Visura and other outlets. In the long run, we all must work hard and all must look forward as ways to envision how we can sustain ourlives,our profession and our families…..being paid all the time doesnt always work…we must look toward ways to benefit (including material) outside the nomenclature of publish/fee, etc….
looking after photographers means not only paying them but helping them, teaching them, getting them to learn how to promote/teach/sell themselves…..:)))
and david and anton aint saints ;)), but they are much closer to sainthood then i’ll ever get and for 2 non-saints, they sure are handsome, loving characters….
whatever ya’ll do, i’m totally behind you
running
b
DAH:
I am jumping in late on this one (I just don’t know where everybody finds the time that I would like to find to hang out here so much) but: GO BLURB! Or something of Blurb nature.
You are conducting an experiment in everything that you do with Burn. Please, keep the experiment going.
I won’t promise you that I will buy it, because I am conducting my own experiments and they have in part helped lead me into one of those freelance nightmares when I have become BROKE, BROKE, BROKE! But I think I am going to get out of it soon and, once I get caught up on my unpaid bills, if I stay on top of it for awhile, I will buy it.
If I don’t, I will still be very interested to watch what you do with it and to see what happens.
Save traditional for another day.
Now, I think I have used up all the time I can spare to comment on Burn for awhile.
But I will be watching – every day.
Okay, my last word on this for now. I would love to have a friendly debate about this question of remuneration with Charles and David Bowen and Bob and whoever else is on that side. We should do it sometime when the issue is not so immediately pertinent. David A. H., as far as I can tell, there’s only a whit of a difference between how you and I see this. It seems we’re coming from the same basic set of assumptions. So I suspect we’d be on my side in this future debate with Charles, et. al. Gladdy, I think, is on our side. Should be fun. I wouldn’t say we’d mop the floor with their crap but — oops, I just did ;?}
But regarding the saint thing, let me be a little more definitive. I’ve been taken to task in the past for referencing “normal” people in a positive way. I understand that, but the way I define “normal” is “someone who empathizes with others less fortunate.” So I guess the way I define “saint” is “someone who empathizes with others less fortunate and actually goes to great lengths to help them.” So I doubt anyone here really hates saints, at least not by my definition. And even if you do, you have to admit that some saints are beautiful people.
THODORIS…
no, i have not made up my mind….i am seriously interested in everyone’s opinion and i am looking at this as a serious discussion among the folks and yes friends who most often participate….i just want to do the right thing…it has to be a practical thing too…but, i would not want to reduce the quality to make Burn 01 less expensive….i would rather go up than down in quality….but if this first issue looks good , then maybe we can get a big sponsor next time around…someone who gives us good support but has no control over content….hard to find those kind, so it would have to be a company or institution that trusted us…period….that kind of support would allow the price to go down and the quality to go up and the photographers to get paid and for the company to be so thanked for making this happen…sophisticated logo placement…but, no product direct ads…this is what i see….
cheers, david
MICHAEL,
I’m only on the side of BURN here – and I’m sure each of us has his/her idea of what’s best though ultimately it’s up to the owners. But you really don’t believe in pro bono in certain cases? (sorry, that’s how it seems to come off).
Best,
CP
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
just as i was about to respectfully debate you, i clicked on the picture of Eva and springtime washed over me…ahhh….well, now back to the point…THIS IS THE PLACE FOR THIS DISCUSSION…i called the discussion and i am very interested in your input….because as you say, this is pertinent and is exactly why everyone should be discussing , not the other way around….so, speak up young man!!
you will lose your economic argument however with the aforementioned gentlemen…for one very simple economic premise….you cannot ask for a piece of the pie when there is no pie…there is no commercial enterprise taking place other than Blurb will be doing their usual business…the money is only going in their direction…so, they would have to pay the photographers by your reasoning and i do not see that happening…you are making a case for a business environment that does not exist in this case…of course it could in the future and would then be dealt with accordingly…
MARK TOMALTY
Magcloud very cool and actually our first choice, but alas only in the U.S.
DAH,
Have you considerad talking to any of all the small independent book publishers? maybe do a collaboration with one of them? I’m pretty sure the final product and design would be a lot more interesting. They would benefit and burn would benefit. I would rather put my money in their pocket rather than blurb. I’ve also heard about variable quality from blurb, especially at the high price you or the customer pay. Just an idea.
Cheers
i was thinking Magcloud too –
“At this time orders can only be shipped to the United States, United Kingdom, and Canada, but we’ll be expanding to more countries soon.”
Still too limited?
But they only allow 100 pages…still I’d be keen to see burn 1 and 2 as a 2 mag set.
How many photogs are represented in the 160 pages? do the included already know they are in?
As we all know for any Blurb book the author can set up a price(profit) on top of what blurb asks(depending on size and pages)…
if (for example) blurb needs $40 for a 50 page book…how much is the “right” price the author can(should) ask?…
$5, $10, (another) $40 ??? That is the question…
Book on demand is a great idea…Track the sales down and then off to a big “record” company…show them the numbers…boom…sign a record deal..
How do u think the Rolling Stones started? Then..touring is what a real band should do…to promote the album
It depends of how “hot” the product/book is…
I know its a tough market out there but still..we have John Lennon in the band..he he
peace
ERICA…
how could we possibly do anything with a Burn imprint that was limited to the United States, UK, and Canada?
if/when Magcloud goes international, then sure….as i said earlier , they were our first choice and i cannot imagine a publishing company with these kinds of limitations…there must be a good reason, but i simply do not know it….
in any case, there are many possibilities…my plan is to have Burn 01 one thing and Burn 02 be another thing..each edition will be its own particular package..the opposite of print magazines who feel they must put out exactly the same “package” every month…every edition a surprise..one edition could be boxed, the next edition could be the two mag set you recommend….really make it a collectors magazine/book…and obviously there would never be the possibility of more than 99 editions!!
we will contact the photographers we have chosen within the next week or so…honestly i was not counting photographers, so i do not know how many there are…10 essays for sure, the rest all singles some of which were part of essays originally on Burn..mixing the iconic we have published along with emerging….all with photog permission of course …and two comprehensive texts, not counting my forward….. thats it …simple…i almost feel done already and ready to move on to the next edition…sometime!!
cheers, david
I would rather put my money in their pocket (small publisher)
——————————————— –
well..i agree…good thought..good intention..
one important thing about blurb though..we keep the artistic control plus we dont need to kiss anyones ass..
(i mean wait, beg or try to convince)…maybe i am an arrogant but they(publishers) should come to us…kiss our ass…
(next time around)
and if Burn needs to be distributed then next Look3 sounds great timing…which is next year i think..that means there is enough time to find a small publisher..in the meantime ..why not bring some instant cash with publishing on demand? experiment?
“At this time orders can only be shipped to the United States, United Kingdom, and Canada, but we’ll be expanding to more countries soon.”
Still too limited?
————————–
??????????…hell yeah its limited…unacceptably limited…
.each edition will be its own particular package..the opposite of print magazines who feel they must put out exactly the same “package” every month…
—————————————–
please do…otherwise it will be the encyclopedia “Burntanica”…and make sure no yellow color on the cover..
(laughing)
MARTIN BRINK….PANOS
i do not think you should assume that hooking up with a small publisher would somehow make the “final product and design a lot more interesting”…let’s hope Anton does not read your comment…actually , he would laugh..i cannot overbuild what is coming, because it is still a modest effort….but, you may be surprised at who will be seeking out whom by the end of this…we have thought of a collaboration with a small publisher for an upcoming Burn book imprint, but this is way off in the future….
if we go Blurb they will be paying special attention to Burn….i have seen variable quality in almost every press run of every book published..that is if you know where to look..nobody gets 100% every picture perfect reproduction…but, you may only notice it if it is your book….
i still have several people working on the traditional printing angle….and if not this time, perhaps next…we have zero parameters…we can do as we please….
we will publish what we think is the hottest coolest representation of contemporary photography today coming from this very specific online audience.. a first
cheers, david
i was being sarcastic….im into freedom…im Not into signing contracts…im with the “on demand”
radio , satellite, tv..whatever…ive seen antons dummy book..ive noticed his designer capabilities…
thats what im saying…we dont need anyone…they (publishers) should be kissing our ass…
We should have the control/design..not them
peace
PANOS…
laughing..no yellow? no Burntanica? well, i do not think we should ever rule out ANYTHING…that would be against YOUR code…we do experimental stuff, we borrow from the old stuff, we just work the edges a bit…and then somebody else will carry on…
yellow border, red dot…no diff…it just happens to be our day to rock it…
cheers, david
..that (..should be kissing our ass… ) goes for the advertisers also..
DAH,
I’m curious.. why would Anton laugh?
This is just my personal opinion. In most cases I think the books from small publishers are a bit more interesting and personal than the books at/from blurb or even many of the big publishers. I’ve personally never bought a blurb book, but I might do in the future.. I’ve also thought of making a blurb book so I’m definetely not all against it! The distribution is a major benefit and for sure the biggest obstacle for any product or book..
I’m all for variation and I’m glad to hear your plans! Blurb, small independent publisher, big publisher, magazine, artist books etc.. go for it!
ok..ok..Red Dots allowed..;)
..i’ll break the advertisement rule also …
its ok for Voigtlander lenses …smiling!
MARTIN..
well, i thought i was being obviously facetious….Anton would probably of course take offense at your statement..given that in my opinion he is one of the best web/print designers around…i think when you see Burn 01, you will agree….Blurb is not a design anyway…it is a production process…Anton will design it exactly the way we both want it…he with the graphic design skills, me with a sense of choice and pacing..
cheers, david
DAH, Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but have you ever thought about tacking on a day or two to one of your workshops so that Michael Courvoisier could teach some of his printing skills?
its…4:40am…Im still in the european south…in a PIG country as the northern europeans refers to the southern countries…for those who dont know ..PIGS…stands for
(Portugal.Italy.Greece.Spain)…going venice beach soon…
http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/%22VENICE_BEACH%22/42_HEADSHOTS,_FACES_OF_VENICE,_INSIDERS_PORTRAITS.html#8
DAH,
Well, my posts were not intended to offend anyone, especially not Anton or you. The major reasons for suggesting a small publisher was for printing and distribution and maybe just a nice collabo…
I haven’t written a single thing about Anton’s abilities as a designer or you as an editor…
As I’ve these were just my thoughts and attempts to constructive ideas/brainstorming, but if they’re not appreciated or if you feel offended by them I will just keep quiet from now on..
Cheers
I ended up with photobook(whatwer country you are in) dot com …………..nicer size format great paper but a lot more expensive but open to discounts eg http://www.photobookamerica.com/
MARTIN…
maybe i misread what you wrote…but i did quote you in my first comment to you…perhaps what was said was not meant in the context i took it..in that case, my apologies to you…we should both go back and read again….in any case, you are a valued contributor here and a fine photographer….so please do not “keep quiet from now on”…your opinions are valued….this happens all the time here….misinterpretation…and i am as guilty as any…
cheers, david
David — Regarding Mag Cloud. Were you to go this route it would keep the cost of goods low enough that you could either make the publication much more affordable or even perhaps build in margin to finance the operation.
If the lack of an international shipping option is the only thing keeping you from using Mag Cloud, there is a possible simple work-around:
You could always fulfill international orders yourself, or have a third party do it for you. For example, you could drop ship a bulk order to somewhere in Europe (a burn reader there perhaps?) and then as international orders came in, they could ship those individual orders. This would also likely be a less expensive option for those living outside the US.
There would need to be a separate checkout process for international orders, but I suspect that could be easily set up using amazon, Google checkout or pay pal.
Just a thought.
All the best,
Adam
KURT…
no, Mike is my secret…smiling…good idea….i will ask Mike if he is interested ..by the way, for the opening we just had in Madrid, Mike had good billing, with his name on the show as it should be…i see Mike’s prints all the time, but seeing them framed and in nice gallery lighting, made me realize once again his special talents…
ADAM…
intelligent thinking…thanks…i will discuss this idea with Anton in the morning….it might make sense if indeed we could get some to do the sub-distribution you suggest…i can envision some snags, but maybe maybe..the other problem of course is that we are planning a 160 page magazine and i think Magcloud can only do 100…pretty big cut in our design…anyway, thanks
cheers, david
With so much love going into the edition, it will certainly be wonderful regardless of the production route.
While on the topic, since I’ve not seen a mention here, though I very well could have missed it – check out Jason Eskenazi’s Wonderland, which he’s self-published (the second edition). It’s got that je ne c’est quoi…
http://www.jasoneskenazi.com/wonderland.html
DAH, Anton, All,
I’m late to join this…
i’ve skimmed over the many posts so please forgive me if i’m going over something already said…
I also think blurb seems the way to go for 01, especially when you think of the distribution headache otherwise. From my experience within the indie music world, distribution is one of the most under estimated stumbling blocks out there… so keep it simple… with blurb as a global shop widow it can be simple, instant and effective.
Also has anyone checked out Lulu? http://www.lulu.com/ they also offer an isbn number and distribution through Amazon. could also help get the best deal (cost etc.) with more than one horse running… don’t know much about Lulu but thought it worth a mention.
Charles suggestion of a limited edition is an excellent one i think, however it brings up a few questions: If limited, to how many? would burnians get first dibs? surely there would be a reasonable demand for this book just from the burn crowd, and when you add to that the wider photo community, friends etc. it makes me wonder just how many copies would be sold if left open… and if 01 sold well… surely it would be very useful for future business, sponsors and publishers… having said all that a Limited Edition feels right, at least for 01… one thought is 01 and 02 as limited editions (in close succession), then an unlimited 01&02 combined book… just thinking out loud… also a nice touch for a limited edition would be to include a selection of prints… but that has it’s own set of problems including distribution, unless it could be arranged with blurb…
anyway, however it comes i’m sure it will be a brilliant success, well done for ALL THAT HARD WORK!
cheers,
sam
“Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to one’s self-esteem. That is why young children, before they are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily.” Thomas S. Szasz
just chewing fat..
morning all.
smile.
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=874350
CIVI, Hi.
Glad you saw the images. cool… and ys they look as you put it…ahh…thanks & ciao.
David AH,
I’m late to the party and don’t have time to follow (Working in Savannah,GA
yes it is very tough) but here’s something to muddy up the book discussion
http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2008/05/21/photo-book-publishers/
US, Canada and UK too limited?? Heck, YES!!
If somebody wants to take a *virtual*hike through Istanbul with way too many pics, please go here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/eva.mbk/Istanbul#
DAH…
“…no, i have not made up my mind…”
In that case I’ll add some more arguments for self-publishing…
First off, the number game…
I would argue that a very high quality (maybe even higher than the premium paper option that the print-on-demand services offer) can be produced for way less than 25 buck per book…
As you know (but maybe others reading this don’t) the strength of the traditional printing is in volume… For an example let’s say that you were to produce a print run of 1000 books of the highest quality for 25.000 bucks (by far not the best price in the market, but that’s the one you mentioned earlier)… that would bring the per book cost to 25 bucks… but, if you were to double your print run to 2000 books, your production costs would “only” go up about 40% (which would mostly account for the binding, since for a print run of up to 3000 copies your only additional printing cost is the paper) making the total production cost 35.000 but dropping the per book cost to 17,5 bucks…
(**Parenthesis…
The extension of the logic displayed above dictates that the more copies you print, the lower the per book price gets (the more affordable your book becomes or the more profit you are able to make from it), BUT…
And this is a BIG BUT…
If you don’t manage to sell at least half of its run, then you end up with a lot of money tied up to the dead weight which takes up most of your guest room…
This is why most people going down the self-publishing route, go for small (and more expensive per book) runs, the most common number being 1000 copies…
**parenthesis close)
Now, for putting together the kind of money mentioned above (taking out of the equation the option of being filthy rich :) and taking into account your mention of the difficulty in securing no-strings-attached sponsorships… what about investors?
For example… you could call the person in charge of the finance of say National Geographic and say “you know me, you know Burn… I’m about to take this huge leap of faith… are you willing to invest/bet say 6000 bucks in its success?” … the deal being that every single dime coming in from sells will directly go to them until they get back their money in full, OR (if the whole thing goes south) they’ll only get part of their money back—which won’t be as huge a setback for a corporation as it would for an individual… and you’ll only need 5 corporations/organizations willing to bet in your idea…
In the same spirit, you could put out a feeler to see how many individuals would be willing to invest/bet a minimum amount of say 500 bucks in the Burn-1, in which case you would need 60 people with good paying jobs and disposable income (and maybe a latent gambling problem :) … again, the idea being that if thing should not work as hoped, when the loss is divided among many it won’t hurt as bad…
AGAIN… all the above is about production costs… the main problem with self-publishing is DISTRIBUTION…
About distribution…
I might be way off here but how about this for an idea:
Say you go for a 2000 book print run (making each book 17,5 bucks from the example above) and you have the binder ship half of it to your NY loft… now, once the books are there you pick up the phone and call *everyone* on your list, and tell them “for the next couple of days anyone who’ll show up on “Burn galley” will get a singed copy of Burn-1 for 35 bucks” (no shipping no nothing…) how many books do you think could fly off your hands like that? I think you could singlehandedly cover most of the production costs before you knew what hit you…
As for the rest of the books, you could give away half to libraries and institutions (schools, etc) and the rest give them to a specialized distributor… you’ll only get a fraction of the selling price from the distributor, but by then you’ll be out of the woods (production cost wise) and even start making a profit…
Adam’s idea for distribution was a great one too…
Cheers…
ALL..
no decisions have been made yet on the printing of BURN 01….we are still exploring many possibilities…many many thanks for all of your input…a healthy discussion in my opinion..the whole point of Burn in the first place is audience participation….so whether i agree with you or not or have a counterpoint is in my mind all part of the process….i cannot as editor make decisions that are wholly formed from consensus, but i am taking bits and pieces from everyone here, playing it up against my own experience and the experience of others, and will try to do the right thing for all..after all, let’s face it, this is going to be fun…thank you
THODORIS..
i see you have posted an in depth well thought out comment..but i must jump in the car and head for the airport..to NYC…so, i will read carefully upon arrival…
cheers, david
“some things done for passion can turn into love and love can turn into a long term relationship…you never know….but, worth trying?”
Wonderful statement…so true.
I don’t read all comments behind so I don’t know all ideas for Burn 01.
But whatever way Burn 01 will be published, I will find the way to buy it. of course easy shipping will make print magazine more international. For us is is more important than magazine’s price.
Unfortunately it is nothing I can help. I have always problems with sending anything aboard.
All I can do is to keep fingers crossed :)
So, while David is flying to NYC, you can see some photos from the exhibition and the student show in Madrid last Friday. It was a really cool night. The exhibition space was great, so are DAHs pictures, beautifully printed made by Mike, just a really nice “teaser” of what this project will be.. The space was crowded, but like a “true” photographer, I was more concerned about talking to friends and refil the tiny wine glas than to take picture when the crowd was at the top. Anyway, you will have an imprssion!
The student show was interesting, some nice work there, and the student seemed really excited about the whole event. And Madrid, Madrid is always fun..
http://picasaweb.google.com/102607394576758658345/MadridApril2010#
Eva…
Many thanks for sharing your pictures !!
You’ve got some great ones there too…
Andrea
Many thanks for pictures from opening!
Andrea, thanks for posting those images. What a great venue for pictures. Looks very spacious indeed. I’ve never been to Madrid. I most take my family one day.
DAH…
(Seeing the pictures Andrea just posted…)
Another idea for distribution…
How about taking an extra suitcase with 50 copies of Burn-1 along with you to your workshops/lectures?…
By the way, those prints look amazing in that space… they must be exceptional up close…
New happy snaps from the Hornby Island Celtic festival last weekend.
http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/hornby_island_celtic_festival
AG
thank you for posting those photos..
dah
your prints look BEAUTIFUL!!!
LOVE the size,
BIG and BOLD!!!!
and the mix,
B/W and color….
yummy…
***
DAH
I recall you mentioning shooting the black and white portion of your ‘Family’ project on
medium format film.
Did you also shoot the color portions on medium format ? Neg ?
DAH and Anton…
Just curious if you’ve seen this:
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/25025/
Steve Job’s open letter about Flash.
I always found it annoying that I can’t access the slide shows here with my iPhone and wondered if there’s been a conversation about it. Sorry if you’ve already had it and I missed it. In which case just ignore this. But it’s an interesting read in any case.
Cheers.
-M
DAH …re magcloud and shipping / distribution, that’s what i was thinking as well, if you have shipping to uk canada and us, from there ship out to rest – sorry not to be more clear in the first post but my fingers have gone numb from typing and clicking for develop – i’ll see your 17 hours and raise you by 6 months…no way to live, gonna change it SOON..i am glad to hear you know how wicked it, the world needs you in it and shooting it anyway :)
DAH
have you though about getting pre orders for the book ?
like a button to PRE Order BURN 01 on the burn home page …. and say u price it at what BLURB is gona charge say 60 $
and u leave it on for couple of weeks ..say if you manage to get an order for 5 – 600 hundred books ..u can get it done via BLURB ….
or if you get like 1000 – 1500 pre orders … you can have it self published and get it distributed with the money ……now if you save money like 20 $ on every book .. you can offer BURN 02 at $ 20 discount to the ones who pre ordered BURN 01 ……
vivek
hey ALL —
Reading through so many comments regarding self-publishing and on-demand… Thank you all for offering all your opinions… I’ll join the discussion after I’ve read and summarized all – some good ideas I see already…
FYI… I’ve been in the printing business for about 15 years now, and I believe I know most of the ins and outs… I’ve experienced many of them first hand…
Obviously there are pros and cons to both approaches (on demand vs traditional), and good, well-balanced mixed approaches exist too…
But the most important point is not finding the IDEAL solution/mix, the most important part is tailoring the most WORKABLE solution FOR OUR PARTICULAR situation behind the scenes (and also “in front of the scenes” obviously) at BURN.
the VERY BEST solution at this particular point in space and time, might in fact even be one of THE WORST solutions in any other case, place or time. Hell, even 2 days from now, our situation could change drastically, making an entirely different solution more feasible at that moment.
So what we’re actually doing is constantly balancing and adjusting and tweaking the most ideal solution to our particular situation.
(e.g. the discussion here might bring new factors into the equasion that might lead us to adjust our strategy, or even completely overthrow it)
keeping that balance in check is the key to having the REAL solution, and almost always differs significantly from the IDEAL solution…
Will read all comments now and try to respond in more detail asap!
Cheers and thanks all for your extremely valuable inputs…. reading them as we speak…
a
DAVID,
I am late to the debate and everything seems to have been said before but I think that going down the path of a Blurb book initially seems to be a logical first step… what really matters at the end of the day, is to be able to get that book and for this book to be of high quality. Long live Burn but, whatever the future holds, that book will have its own life and will be a “testament” to this extraordinary adventure you have started 18 months ago… I cannot wait to hold it and go through it… Make it precious…make it special, make us all proud!!!!!
If you endup discussing a deal with Blurb, my only build would be to see if Blurb could become this on-line publisher of “special edition” Burn books from Burnians…special work that you have edited and supported…
Cheers,
Eric
DAVID,
I am late to the debate and everything seems to have been said before but I think that going down the path of a Blurb book initially seems to be a logical first step… what really matters at the end of the day, is to be able to get that book and for this book to be of high quality. Long live Burn but, whatever the future holds, that book will have its own life and will be a “testament” to this extraordinary adventure you have started 18 months ago… I cannot wait to hold it and go through it… Make it precious…make it special, make us all proud!!!!!
If you endup discussing a deal with Blurb, my only build would be to see if Blurb could become this on-line publisher of “special edition” Burn books from Burnians…special work that you have edited and supported…
Cheers,
Eric
ANTON and DAVID,
Well said, Anton. Real solution versus ideal solution. Both of you have worked so hard, and both of you will continue to work hard on this… my only suggestion is to go with what seems most feasible for you at this point in time, and what will cause both of you the fewest headaches and extra work, as long as the outcome is a product whose quality you are both pleased with. Sometimes one doesn’t really have enough information to make an intelligent decision, and sometimes one can have ‘too much’ information to make an intelligent decision… still, decisions must be made. If anyone needs explanation or inspiration on that topic, I suggest reading the part of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s “The Last Tycoon” where he talks about the qualities needed in a movie producer. When my grandfather was running away from the law in England over a hundred years ago and he got to the Southampton docks, there were two ships sailing on the evening tide. He flipped a coin, and got on the ship for Australia. Later in life, Fate would lead him to Canada and the U.S., but at that moment he had no way of knowing or planning that… he had to get on a real ship, not an ideal ship.
hey ALL —
i suddenly realize that i have more pressing issues right now… leaving for japan the day after tomorrow and need to organize a million things before that… so I’ll be a s brief as i can
first off MARTIN BRINK
no i would not laugh at all my friend… there’s obviously a misunderstanding here, i would totally understand the elevated “interest” generated by a cool magazine working together with a cool small indepedent publisher… i know exactly what you mean i would desperately want just that to happen…. only reason this is not happening is time and manpower to make this happen
secondly
there are lots of wild numbers going round, and most of them are very very off…
– pre-selling 1000 copies is way too optimistic. given a good marketing and ample time to build up, that might work. but not in present situation with LOOK3 deadline.
– pure printing at press will be 6€ per book for 1000 ex., 3,75€ per book for 2000 ex. (price increase is 25% per doubling of numbers). this is all excl. taxes so add 21%
– also distribution/logistics (packaging, shipping, storage combined) make up for much larger amount that you would estimate. usually this is the LARGEST COST OF ALL, more than 100% of all other costs combined.
thirdly
distribution
if you have ever tried distributing yourself you would instantly know… it is HUGE and it is something you do NOT want to take on, unless you are a pro; I know what it encompasses and i will stay away from it. This has to be done by logisitics specialists.
Even a mixed solution like using magcloud to bulk order and then shipping orders “on” to Europe yourself… you might think a good solution… but in real life that would be an immediate logistical nightmare, actually even worse that doing the entire distribution yourself.
Distribution/logistics is the single point everyone always underestimates. CHARLES is exactly right in that respect.
SAM
lulu I have tried and tested numerous times… unfortunately does not match up to blurb in printing quality. I say “unfortunately” because it seems like lulu distribution model (ISBN numbers and all) is more mature than blurb. But in regards to pure print quality, Blurb really does set the standard for on-demand.
finally
i still feel that “baby steps and top top quality” for publishing fits our particular situation best
ok gotta run now… will see you all very soon… SO SORRY I cannot jump in any more but i am reading so many good ideas in the comments and david and I are taking note of every single one of them… and I’m confident we will come up with the best solution tailored to our situation.
HUGS to every one of you for helping thinking and all ideas… incredibly useful…
David and I salute you all
a
SIDNEY
Hear hear, my friend, hear hear.
signing off now…
a
…a message from creativeLive about this weekend’s FREE online workshop:
Event: creativeLIVE Weekend Workshop: Vincent Laforet
Date: Friday, Saturday, Sunday April 30 – May 02, 2010.
Times: Daily, 9am – 6pm P.S.T (Check Your Timezone)
LIVE Video Feed: creativelive.com/live
The big day is tomorrow!
We’re busy getting the space ready for Vincent Laforet’s 3-Day Introduction to HDDLSR Cinema Workshop.
I can’t tell you how excited we are to be presenting this special course for photographers making the leap into video. You will come away from this online workshop with a good understanding of what tools you need for your productions, and when and how to best use them.
The 3-Day Course Schedule is posted!
Please see our calendar at http://creativelive.com/calendar for an outline of this 3 day broadcast in your own time zone.
Vincent has posted a more detailed breakdown of topics for his 3-day weekend on his blog.
Follow creativeLIVE on Twitter for breaking news:
A live event like this can change quickly. To stay in touch in case of problems or changes, follow @creativeLIVE on Twitter. Even if you don’t use Twitter, you can check our Twitter page for updates as the weekend progresses:
http://twitter.com/creativelive
Note: We will probably be staging a few test broadcasts today as we get the space ready for tomorrow’s events. That’s the type of stuff you’ll only hear about from our Twitter feed.
Pass the Word!
This type of live free event take a LOT of work to put on. The way you can help support this effort (and ensure more like it) is by spreading the word, and helping us attract as large an audience for Vincent as possible.
We get a lot of our referrals from Twitter, and we’d appreciate your help spreading the word further. Post a Tweet about tomorrow’s class:
FREE Weekend Workshop: @VincentLaforet teaches dSLR Cinema in the @creativeLIVE classroom! Starts tomorrow!- http://bit.ly/DSLRCinema
For more information visit the course page: creativeLIVE Weekend Workshop: Vincent Laforet
DAH & ANTON,
Thanks!
Cheers
just a quick reminder to all in toronto this weekend that marina black’s featured exhibition “Versts” will be having its opening on saturday from 2-5…
http://scotiabankcontactphoto.com/featured-exhibitions/7
big congratulations!
Regarding distribution, I have some small experience in this, though it was a long time ago. Things may have changed significantly. But back then the way one would handle it would be to contract with a fulfillment house. You would ship your books to them. They would take orders, mail them out, and cut you a check. Way back when, you could find them out in Podunk where cost of doing business was low. Bid it out.
So I suspect the realistic DIY calculation would be cost of printing + cost of shipping to fulfillment house + fulfillment house cut vs. Blurb. Now that I think about it, Blurb is pretty much just a fancy name for a fulfillment house. Probably not the least expensive by a long shot. I could well be wrong, but it might be worth looking into.
David, all:
Great conversation. sorry no time to jump in: IT’S CONTACT FESTIVAL TIME. anyway, please excuse the quick family promotion:
IT’S THAT TIME OF THE YEAR IN TORONTO: CONTACT PHOTO FESTIVAL:
http://www.scotiabankcontactphoto.com/
Please forgive the family promotion, but I wanted to let y’all know that Marina will be exhibiting part of her on-going series Versts at Xe-Xe Gallery at this year’s CONTACT and will run for the next two months. Part of Versts was published here at Burn last year. So, Burn is a family affair with us :)))…that’s 2 Black family essays…and who knows what dima is up to ;))…
Anyway, Marina’s exhibition has been chosen as one of this year’s Featured Exhibitions for the Festival. The opening for Versts’ will have it’s opening THIS SATURDAY, May 1st, from 2:00 – 5:00 pm. at Xe-Xe Gallery. Xe-Xe is located at 624 Richmond Street, which is on the corner of Bathurst and Queen, just south of Queen street.
You can see the CONTACT page info on her show here:
http://scotiabankcontactphoto.com/featured-exhibitions/7
The galleries website page, is here: http://www.xexegallery.com/artist_individual.php?artist_id=231
and you can see/read more about the series at Marina’s website here: http://www.marinablack.com/
Also, more GREAT NEWS. Marina just found out today that part of this work has been given an Excellence Award by B/W magazine (to be published in June) for the Annual Portfolio review. This is the second year in a row that Marina has been given awards by B/W Magazine. Look for it in June.
I am very proud and excited for her and really elated about the show. I love this work a lot and am very very excited for you guys to see the show.
So, if you are in town, please drop by. I hope to see you all at the opening and if not then sometime during CONTACT (we’ll be at the opening gala on Friday too at MOCA).
David: for a moment, when i saw your note about heading to the airport, i thougth ‘david’s gonna surprise us here!” ;))))))….anyway, hope to have a drink with Alec S and take him book hunting when he has some quiet time during the week….and introduce myself to Alex and Rebecca…..
We miss u this year :)))
See you soon, trust me :))
ok, off for the weekend…
running
b
marc! ;))))))…
damn, i didnt see that…thanks for that…see u…talk to u tonight :)))
ANTON:
THAT’S IT EXACTLY….reality…to make shit happen, it must begin with an ideal but end in the real…
will send u something lovely when u return from Japan…
be strong, get some wicked green shots again :)))
hugs
running
b
CIVILIAN
hey u Grecian God(dess)..saw you asking the whereabouts of Burn ladies..am not online, really..lots of projects, work and getting ready for Juliette´s graduation from college..will be in LA the middle of May for that..just a quick trip to yank my baby chick back to CR. How have you been? It is raining here, very early for the monsoons to start so there is a lot of hurry-up planting, fertilizing and trimming not to mention rain-proofing every possible opening around the house. i love the rain, it´s so wonderful after 5 months of dry summer. Still, the idea of the rainy season lasting till late November or even early December is already making me claustrophobic. waaaa!
My best to you and Gracie and everyone here..
waves to all and sordid..er, assorted:
Kathleen
EVA
thanks for the snappery !
really enjoyed wandering through istanbul with you – some great photos in there.. an essay.. you´ve a good eye for details and for contradictions / paradoxs which demand a second look, as well as the more straight aesthetic shots which work well.
good use of portrait orientation.. would like to see more of your work..
the link again, as i think it got missed
http://picasaweb.google.com/eva.mbk/Istanbul#
BOB
thanks! will do.. will do…
good luck and congratulations to marina for her opening
ok really running now!
a
Where are the BURNIAN Business women …???
KERRY …red Aussie Alert…please proceed to the…oime “what shall we do” area :)))
DAVID BATCHER…yeap, I have never seen in my whole longgggggg life so many quotes …in one place…
cause BURN is a place to be…here we are again…
“some things done for passion can turn into love and love can turn into a long term relationship…you never know….but, worth trying?”
VIVEK…update with numbers…!!!
GORDON…we love your life
EVA…you are evolving
RODOLFO…stay around
POMARA… keep it Up …sending good energy… Savannah,GA
MARTINB…we LOVE you
MICHAELK…update
ANDREAG…you are a G force …thanks for opening the window to check in …
DAH, you look good…VIVA to Spanish people…
P.S KATHLEEN FONSECA…where are you…Please, check in
1000000000000000 BURNIANS…Not even the Sky is the limit…is that right SPACECOWBOY???
JIMMY,HERVE…tick talk…
I can not read the above comments…BUT I have been informed that we have updates…
I will be back
Anton…
Well since I’m the one who trough most of the numbers out there earlier, let me clarify…
My actual real-life-numbers are very close to yours—albeit somewhat higher since they refer to doing the production in Greece (don’t know where your printer/binder is). The numbers I produced earlier were meant to accompany an illustration of the process of traditional printing while accommodating the 25 bucks per book that David had mentioned earlier—which I thought was a real-life-estimate for doing the job in the States.
As a side note, in my search for a binder able to produce a clothed hardcover with the kind of binding that lets the book lie flat when opened I found no one offering to do the job for the less than 1,5 euro that your 25% increase for the additional 1000 copies would imply (so I will maintain that the increase is more like 40% as I mentioned earlier) but those are small peanuts when compared to the STORAGE and DISTRIBUTION costs and hassle.
I do appreciate that from the stand point of just two people running the whole operation (in addition to your respectful lives and careers) it makes much more sense to publish this book by just-pressing-a-button… my arguing for the self-publishing option was meant only as a counter balance in your decision making process and was offered only after David had asked for our thoughts on what the best solution for bringing into life a high quality print version of Burn might be.
Had I known of your extensive publishing experience, I wouldn’t have tried to illustrate a process that you obviously know better than me to begin with, saving us both some time… in any case I did it with the best intentions…
Cheers and have a nice trip…
EVA,
Again, the link to EVA’s Istanbul images – http://picasaweb.google.com/eva.mbk/Istanbul#
Deliciously chaotic. Humankind at it’s best. Street photography of the highest calibre.
Cats. Cushions. Balloons. Bread. Children. Crazy wiring. Dodgy construction. This body of work HAS IT ALL.
Please make a Blurb book or something similar. I’d buy it. Would love to have this work in my library.
Everybody, make sure you take a look at Eva’s lovely work.
hey thodoris,
no worries, i was just stating the numbers that i have at my disposal… obviously we can never compare unless we have exact same size, pages, paper, binding and such… but there is even no need to do this imho… it is exactly what you say that i was trying to say: everything is going to be dwarfed by logisitics and distribution anyway :-)
your input is most valuable… thanks a lot for that!
a
Thodoris, David, Civi, Paul, thank you for your feedback.. was fun wandering around, Istanbul is full of life for sure, nice organized chaos :)
ALL… below a message from dear friend CASEY at Slideluck… please read..
On Saturday, May 15th, Slideluck Potshow will be partnering with the New York Photo Festival for Slideluck Potshow XV. The show will take place in Dumbo, Brooklyn, beneath the Manhattan Bridge Archway – a monumental space that has been closed to the public for almost 20 years. This spring evening should have a real festival-like atmosphere as all of the NYPH exhibitions will be open late – allowing people to bounce between them, the Archway, and the RGH Lighting space presented by Resource Magazine, Scheimpflug and Le Book.
Submit your work to Slideluck Potshow XV by Tuesday, May 4th! The theme of the slideshow is Bridges – but this need not be approached literally. We are looking to explore other types of connections or links – social, cultural, historical, or otherwise – that bind people or disparate elements together. As usual, one half of the show will be open and not bound by any theme! We are proud to be collaborating with three fantastic curators from very different backgrounds: David Alan Harvey (National Geographic, Magnum, Burn), Jae Choi (The Collective Shift), and W.M. Hunt (Hasted Hunt Kraeutler, SVA). Submission guidelines can be found here: http://network.slideluckpotshow.com/group/slpsnyc
SLIDELUCK POTSHOW XV
Saturday, May 15, 2010
6pm Beautiful Bountiful Brooklyn Tasting Hour | 7pm Potluck | 9pm Slideshow
Manhattan Bridge Archway | Water & Pearl Streets | Dumbo, Brooklyn | 11201
Purchase Tickets: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/105502
RSVP: http://network.slideluckpotshow.com/events/slps-xv-new-york-city
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=110440858982100&index=1
Twitter: http://twitter.com/slideluck
Submission Info: http://network.slideluckpotshow.com/group/slpsnyc
Also:
Are you ready to break a world record? It is with great excitement that we announce that at this event in Brooklyn we will be attempting to claim The Guinness Book of World Records for the Largest Potluck on earth. Who do we have to beat? A potluck that took place in Phoenix, AZ that brought together 602 individual dishes and was sponsored by Promise margarine. Well, as mentioned before, this potluck is about local, seasonal ingredients, so let’s not only kick Promise’s fat yellow ass, let’s do it with real food. In so doing, we will not only be sending a message out about healthy, sustainable food systems, but we’ll have a feast of historical proportions.
Cheers,
Casey
Anton…
Besides having an ideological preference towards the underdog (and even if Blurb isn’t as big as the big name publishers, it’s a far cry from being one) I also have an ulterior motive in arguing for the self-publishing of Burn…
if you were to go down that road and you managed to find a working solution about distribution, then I could hopefully (if I said pretty pretty please?) make use of your established distribution channel for my own book-to-be… and I know for a fact that I’m not the only one in here with the aspiration of putting out into the world (what I hope will be) a beautiful and meaningful book, which could only be produced as a self-published one, since no publisher would invest good money and resources in a book they didn’t absolutely consider marketable… well there are a few exceptions, but that’s the rule…
So, no matter of the production road you’ll choose to follow this time around, I hope that in the process you’ll find a way to create a distribution paradigm which will benefit both the future editions of Burn-in-print and any attempts in publishing by the rest of the members of this growing family alike…
THODORIS…
i agree with you totally in principle…so does Anton i am sure….we are trying now to make a quality product in the best way we know how given the resources we have…i plan to really get involved with a Burn imprint for possible books from authors here…running now, and back later for more complete response…thanks as always for your thoughtful input…
cheers, david
hey Thodoris…
i think david has mentioned this before, it is indeed (one of) our goal(s) in the long run to achieve exactly this “perfect” paradigm… and obviously the photographers at BURN will be the first ones to be included…. but it is just a tad too soon to start thinking about that one in practical terms now…
cheers
a
David, Anton…
On a different note, regarding the idea David mentioned earlier of making each Burn magazine/book different in “packaging”, do you know of McSweeney’s? each of their issues looks and feels like a book and they’re all different from each other… they even did a “newspaper” edition recently…
http://www.mcsweeneys.net
Please note that I’m not arguing for any particular solution. But I’m curious why no one seems to be considering book fulfillment houses? They warehouse your books, take and ship orders, and handle any returns. Costs you nothing in time. Have you looked into them and they are just too expensive? There seem to be plenty of them out there.
Anton…
I totally get what you’re saying, about timing and about being too soon for trying to implement some of these ideas… since this is the brainstorming part of the process though, I thought of throwing them in… glad to know that you have already considered most of them…
Cheers…
michael
yes we did look into this route (and still are looking into one particular solution, that might fit us nicely)
thanks for mentioning!
cheers
a
Yes, I can read the comments!!!
Well…Once an academiam…always an academian…SIDNEY:)))
CASEY…WE ARE READY…the Largest Potluck on earth!!!
what shall we bring???
KATIE FONSECA,STREET FIGHTER…Los Angeles is beautiful
Congratulations …kiss the kids…bravo Julliete…I love you much…
we miss you here BUT you are on the “road”
ahhh…Damnit, we miss you…
ANTON,hey mate…
I am SPEECHLESS…may the Spirits of travel be with you…
we Love you…
ouzo for our Japanese friends…
BURNIANS,
are you procrastinators or incubators ???
SUBMIT…tick talk…tick talk…
Bob invited you to “Marina Black’s CONTACT EXHIBITION VERSTS” tomorrow.
Event: Marina Black’s CONTACT EXHIBITION VERSTS
Start Time: Tomorrow, May 1 at 2:00pm
End Time: Wednesday, June 30 at 5:00pm
Where: Xe-Xe Gallery, 624 Richmond St W, tORONTO
We will be there…our hearts are ticking for the BLACK’S family
Civi – Your energy never ceases to amaze.
BRIAN,
first round on me…LAST ROUND on YOU by YOU…
gotcha …:)))
2068…AKAKYYYYYEEEE afterall…
VIVA !!! keep it rolling…we are BURNING
yes…i submitted…Incubator it is..
not procrastinator…viva Haiti!
CIVI! :))))
THANKS SO MUCH…YES, EVERYONE IS INVITED…DRINKS ON………THE GALLERY ;)))))
gotta fly…
hugs
bob
something VERY VERY interesting to listen to about the future of publishing…
http://www.bobedwards.info/ftopic1001.html&sid=6b7ceb1ea3f70b6c34fb57fc5e48fa47
and Bob…
I enjoyed your comment under the current essay… please use a spellchecker though… you’re using enough words I have to google for their definition as it is… :))
ALL,
(and now for something completely different…)
for those of you – Bob, Cathy, David, Herve, Michael, Panos and others – who still remember the links i offered in 2008 for the Visão Photojournalism Awards (in Portugal), with the winners and videos from members of the jury like James Nachtwey, Philip Blenkinsop, Stanley Greene, Kadir van Lohuizen, Jean-François Leroy, Mary Ann Golan and others, i have a new report from Portugal. unfortunately, 2008 was the last edition, until this year when another organization decided to proceed with the awards.
last saturday (April 24, 2010) Estação Imagem / Mora Photojournalism Awards presented the winners. i couldn’t attend the ceremony in Mora, a small village in Alentejo region (Portugal), because i was in Madrid for the “American Family” opening, but you can see the winners gallery/slideshow and the portfolio from the grant winner, at http://www.estacao-imagem.com/ (skip intro and go to “veja a galeria dos vencedores”)
the members of the jury were Daphné Anglès (european picture coordinator The New York Times), Magdalena Herrera (director of photography Geo, France), Francesco Zizola (Noor) and Aypery Ecer (vice-president pictures Reuters and WPP 2010 jury chair), who “stressed the importance of national and regional contest in the renovation of photojournalism, drawing reporter’s attention to local affairs. also stressed the fact that this awards distinguished essays rather than individual photographs, and how it is increasingly important to work the issues in depth.”
for this first edition, the organizers received more than 600 essays (5500 photos) from 191 photojournalist. the winner of the grand prize (7500€) was Paulo Pimenta, and there were prizes (2500€) in seven categories: news, daily life, portraits, arts & entertainment, environment, sports and 2009 election year. and also a grant (5000€) for the development of a project in the Alentejo region awarded to João Carvalho Pina.
First Prize
Paulo Pimenta (Público), a story on the railway line of Sabor, which was disabled.
News
1st prize – Ricardo Meireles (Via Visuals), a report on the crisis in S. João da Madeira.
2nd prize – Nélson Garrido (Público), immigration into Europe from Mauritania.
Daily life
1st prize – João Carvalho Pina (Kameraphoto), «Gangland» on violence in Rio de Janeiro.
2nd prize – Nacho Doce (Reuters), Alzheimer’s patients.
3rd prize – Nelson d’Aires (Kameraphoto), a competion of cooks in the Russian army.
Portraits
1st prize – Guillaume Pazat (Kameraphoto), portraits in the neighborhood of Bouça, in Oporto.
Arts & entertainment
1st prize – Gonçalo Rosa da Silva (Visão), an auction at Christie’s, in London.
Environment
1st prize – Nuno André Ferreira (Correio da Manhã and Lusa), forest fires.
Sports
1st prize – Jorge Monteiro (GestiFoot Media), the presentation of Cristiano Ronaldo at Real Madrid.
2009 election year
1st prize – Nelson d’Aires (Kameraphoto), PSD’s electoral campaign for legislative elections.
Grant
João Carvalho Pina (Kameraphoto), for a project about what happened to the collective production units created in the Alentejo region after the 1974 revolution.
um forte abraço para todos,
Carlos Filipe
Speaking of photoshop, this morning my Mac froze on the screensaver as it it was transitioning between these two images. Strange how that works, sometimes. Like the unconscious imposing its will on the machinery. I could use that in my current project, if it weren’t so technically fake.
It occurs to me that any burnian published in the (what is DAH and Anton calling it?) published book of selected photos, would be more than happy to contribute their photos without payment. Think about the exposure you have AND think about the EXPOSURE you have…priceless..a great investment.
I know we hear that a lot; get published here or there and the exposure possibilities are enumerated. I always think that the photo magazines, etc., make a profit and photos used to illustrate their stories affect their bottom line positively and so should it thus prosper the photographer’s.
The nature of burn magazine is to help emerging photographers. This first issue is hard-pressed to be a profit making publication. To be chosen to be in its first published magazine is an honor. We have learned so much, laughed so much, shared so much, worked out so much, pushed ourselves so much. Thanks David and Anton and all those that are working so hard on this magazine. I will definitely be buying a copy. I can’t wait to see the selected photos and mostly how it is woven together by the master story teller.
For those following the rat in my house story–he has been caught. My roommies managed to snare him 3 days after I left.
A reminder:
The “A Moment in Time” project organized by the NY-Times Lens-blog will take place tomorrow… for more info check Patricia’s post bellow:
https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/comment-page-20/#comment-66522
MayDay …MayDay…
let’s go for the BURNDAY…BURNDAY …celebrated on December 21st…:)))
Bravo LEE…your home is like civilian’s home…full of “footprints”
Thanks CARLO…
Thanks THODORI…NY Times…we have so many friends…
Where is ourPATRICIA…???
ahhh…HERVE is ok…he says Hi…he can be found in the book of face area…:)))
hmmm…it seems that everyone is sleeping…
so Can I sing Now???
CIVILIAN
sitting in airport lounge now very lonely… will you sing to me???
anton
Lamenting the fall of socialism civi……… that’s the silence
ANTON…ssshhhhh…
that’s all I can do…BUT I can wake up PANOS, DAVIDB, JOHNYG…etcetera…
WE LOVE YOU ANTONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
IMANTS…hey mate…
you remind me of Imants Ziedonis…
his collection of poetry ‘Sand of earth and dreams’…oime…
I think his Latvian…hmmm…my old brain …not sure
VIVA !!!
thanks civi…. you couldn’t have made a better choice….
a
who kicked my bed?
CIVI – goddam your smiley letters.
sleeping??? … ironing.. bleah.. and reading about oil spills and tear gas:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8651333.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8655711.stm
anton, safe travels!
ok.. now that’s kinda tragic: healthier food for kid in scholl, so they can be sent to war.. or so..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8655651.stm
eva
keeping kids healthy so they can go kill and die..
no sence of irony –
tragic.
err, school, even..
Anton…
See if this works for you…
thodoris… got all their albums… mother’uckin brilliant!
ok plane about to board now… see you all soon
CIVI, just for context if needed…
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP3=ViewBox&VBID=2K1HZOMIQTV9R&IT=ThumbImage02_VForm&CT=Search&PN=1&SH=1&SF=1&PPM=0&CTID=KU1B2PK_D&TM=&RW=1263&RH=683
…
burns’ biggest Achilles heal is the sheer volume of unresolved essay that are posted. Eventually the audience will start losing interest both in viewing and commenting. Some of the essays need to be posted when they are fully resolved in the photographers mind otherwise all is just a muddle of text and images and a ……. wait until tomorrow situation.
I am guilty of this my first all done and dusted and it has not been altered since.
The second essay was a dismal failure,it was all over the place, images removed,some images were eventually cut from the book, orders changed all to accommodate the net, it was crap and of no benefit to the audience nor me ………………….. the intended media was always in book form not the net ( etrouko is a series of three books of 150+ images, etrouko I and etrouko II are completed and dummies printed etrouko III will be done within the month).
Back to the point, if stuff is not resolved and jumbled text is used to support what “might be” the whole caper not very viewer friendly. Sure comments, suggestions are made but it cannot lead to fruitful discussion or real conflict of ideals that something resolved like Roger Ballen’s essay there is a certain presence about a finished piece.
The single selected photo section is under utilised my image posting of was a lot more fruitful than my pesky/shitty last essay atleast the image sat comfortably as completed photograph.
The essay I should have posted is http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
Imants
Yes, I too would love to see more singles. They often seemed to spawn lively and thoughtful discussion.
Gordon/Imants
Maybe they just dont get enough of them. Or the ones they have are kept back until they ‘fit’ into the prevailing mood/style(or are its opposite).
Or maybe not enough of us make single images, as stand alone pieces. finished, whole within themselves.
The essay seems more a popular format to many, and for sure it is a different beast altogether. An essay almost demands words, however brief, to set it up, where a single is free to just be, if its author so chooses. All the questions and answers and meanings can reside inside the minds of each viewer, so that the possibilities for interpretation are unlimited. Nothing is imposed. Essays on the other hand nearly always require the four w’s, or at least one of them. Where are we?, Who is it?, What is going on?, Why? (of course I am generalising a bit here so dont bite my head off)
It seems they have to tell a story, or illustrate a concept, or issue a challenge.
I may be wrong here as I generally suck at essay and rarely do them, as I find them quite painful to make.
Okay , must make more coffee now
john
It is easier to hide behind a essay than a single and stronger images can compensate for those nowhere images. I’d say there are a heap of singles but for some they do not hold the same prestige as an essay.
As far as singles go, here is one:
“I set out to shoot the white dove of peace, but someone got to it first…”
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_Nicosia_35-06.jpg
Rodolfo, I looked at your pictures the other day, wanted to do so again, but seems you’ve taken them down..it’s a fascinating (to me) topic..
eva, just uploaded. same place…cheers
short essays are the way………. http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm
Part 2 of a three-part series on the future of publishing:
http://www.bobedwards.info/ftopic1003.html&sid=77b27ad3c756be01ae49a6fb4dd3943f
I wonder if I’d be better off if I’d stop reading the news..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8656651.stm
eva, I forgot…thanks…
eva, just uploaded. same place
——————————–
what place? secret?
REMINDER: TODAY’S THE DAY!
On behalf of the New York Times photography blog Lens, I would like to invite you to join us in a project called A Moment in Time. Thousands of photographers of all experience levels will be capturing the same moment on Sunday, May 2nd at 15:00 U.T.C. That’s 8 a.m. in Los Angeles, 11 a.m. in New York City and Santo Domingo, 4 p.m. in Algiers and London, 7 p.m. in Moscow and 11 p.m. in Beijing.
This is the first step in trying to connect photographers around the world. Everyone is encouraged to participate.
We are asking participants to think about where they want to be and what they will focus on. Consider how to represent yourself, and your community, with one image.
To help stimulate ideas and to act as guides, we are suggesting the following categories for images:
· Religion
· Play
· Nature and the Environment
· Family
· Work
· Arts and Entertainment
· Money and the Economy
· Community
· Social Issues
Photos should be no larger than 5 MB, ideally 1000 pixels wide or more. In keeping with photojournalistic standards, please keep Photoshopping to a minimum.
After you take your photos, submit your best image as soon as possible to http://submit.nytimes.com/moment. The link will go live that morning, directing you to a Web form. You will be asked to categorize your photos by location and subject, and to include a caption that helps tell the story.
Photos will quickly appear on the Lens Blog and The New York Times Web site. Your photo will be displayed in our A Moment in Time display, and may also be spotlighted in a Lens post.
A Moment in Time is open to everyone. The project will be greatly enriched with your help. Please spread the word far and wide.
Thank you in advance.
Sincerely,
James Estrin
Lens Blog Co-Editor
Senior Staff Photographer
NEW YORK TIMES
620 Eighth Avenue, New York, NY 10018
estrin@nytimes.com
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/
panos, no secret…just…here.
http://rodolfor.com/public/index_007.html
To help stimulate ideas and to act as guides, we are suggesting the following categories for images:
· Religion
· Play
· Nature and the Environment
· Family
· Work
· Arts and Entertainment
· Money and the Economy
· Community
· Social Issues
Seems a bit restrictive, don’t you think? Why not just make it about the meaning of life, death, and the infinite ambiversal we/they/it/continuum/interoggenum/factorium, or something like that?
3, 10, 15, 17, 23
Rodolfo, thanks for reposting.. as said, it’s a fascinating subject, but often photographed, therefore difficult to be presented in a new way, with a strong personal POV I think.
Michael, I think your picture could fit in a number of the listed categories..
Thodoris
My hawk got it.
http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/124134954
Patricia, I read your reminder too late!
beautiful…
thanks to rodolfo & eva of course
http://rodolfor.com/public/index_007.html
I played the little game. Wasn’t sure what to submit though. Going Nowhere” or “Dead Guy in Street”?
That’s what sucks about these little productions. How do they expect you to just walk out the door and find interesting subjects at a predetermined moment?
Gordon: Password Protected Image..
IMANTS…
i am not sure i entirely get your point…in your case, we ran a single and two essays i believe…all three exactly as you told us you wanted with text sequence etc etc…so, if that was not satisfactory to you, is that our Achilles heel or yours?
one thing we could do here is to totally wait for only totally resolved essays..like Roger Ballen as you pointed out…since there are so few really resolved essays out there, it would limit our content range…but, it is an interesting thought…the nature of Burn so far has been to show “works in progress” from the photographers who have not quite yet reached the Roger Ballen status, but we could go the “finished only” route…thinking on that one…thanks
cheers, david
eva, thanks. ys you’re right. it’s hard not to be influenced by decades of images…
for me, this was a trial, no planning…just to find out…
panos, thanks.
Patricia…
(or anyone else…)
Do you know if there is any leeway regarding the exact time of exposure for the “Moment in time”? say +/- a couple of minutes? I did go to one of my favorite locations and I shot several pictures around the specified time… so, is there any freedom of choosing the best exposure *around* 15:00 U.T.C. or do we have to post the one taken right on?
(I plan of posting a link here with the rest anyway…)
Thodoris:
“Do I have to take my picture at exactly 15:00?
No. We don’t expect atomic-clock precision. And we’d rather you send a good picture taken one minute after the hour than a mediocre picture taken exactly on the hour.
We ask only that you come as close to 15:00 as is reasonably possible. Keep in mind that the purpose of this exercise is to create a marvelously simultaneous portrait of our world and its people.”
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/readers-11/
Eva, thanks… very fast!!
Thodoris.. my excuse is that I’m sitting here and refreshing jour 6 on this page
http://www.defisportif.com/fr/athletes/results.php
to see pop up escrime.. I HATE waiting..
thanks Eva
try again. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/124134954
I think the directions say you can cheat if you want, but why bother? I’d say at least keep in the spirit of the thing and go out and take a new spot photo.
Gordon…
I don’t usually photograph corpses, but that one was so perfectly preserved in that pose… I don’t know… almost beautiful??… couldn’t resist…
Michael…
Yes, I suppose that there are ways to alter the exif data in order to cheat… but, the exif is one of the things I like most about digital… eliminates the need of taking notes—at least of the technical stuff…
That wasn’t what I meant. The purpose is to show a particular moment in time. The exercise, as I see it anyway, is to take an I
nteresting spot photo. So of you don’t do either, what is the point?being seen? Careful, Simone might then examine that exif data. Is that really how you want to be seen?
Sorry, I’m no doubt coming off a bit more judgemental than I feel. Just discussing general principles. Nothing personal.
That said, I’m a sucker for these spot photo things, I think it is a good exercise. That’s an important thing people miss when they don’t come up the old fashioned way. Some asshole editor saying “I need a photo for page one and I need it in an hour.”
Michael…
Maybe I misread the following, but the way I understood it was that you had the option to choose where you wanted to be at the specified time:
“…We are asking participants to think about where they want to be and what they will focus on. Consider how to represent yourself, and your community, with one image…”
And as for the time restriction thing that I asked before… I didn’t put my camera on a tripod taking the same frame again and again just so I would end up a picture with 18:00:00 (local time) in its exif… I was moving around looking for interesting pictures to capture… so my question was “is the TIME or the CONTENT more important to the editors”?
eva, another set, not a related theme, if you care to have a look…thanks.
http://rodolfor.com/public/index_006.html
Yes, I read that, but I’m not sure what your point is? A spot photo is a time constraint, not location. People who are practiced at the art always have locations in mind where they think odds are good of getting a good photo fast.
sorry, i thought that when you said “spot” you were talking about place as in “topographic point”…
Thodoris, my bad. I’m actually sitting at the beach, following this on the iPhone as I do other work. I missed your note where you said you were just a few minutes off. I was serious about speaking of the general issues, nothing specific about you. It’s very easy to miss important info in these comment threads.
Rodolfo, nice subject again, and you have good access! Must look at the pictures on a different screen though.. a question if you don’t mind: what medium do you shoot with/on?
Ok… for anyone interested… these are the pictures i shot this afternoon for the lens-blog…
Caption:
Agios Sozomenos is a small village south-east of Nicosia, the capital of Cyprus. It was abandoned shortly after 1964, following a deadly clash between small numbers of Greek and Turkish Cypriots. It’s located close to the dividing Green Line.
http://www.tzalavras.com/Agios_Sozomenos/index.html
(the picture I submitted is number 7 from this edit, and was taken at 18:02… the pictures are presented in chronological order, and were taken between 17:38 and 19:18 local time…)
Thodoris..
the photos look excellent when Not centered..in other words they look great when at the left or right side of the centered one..
in other words they are Overexposed by at least 1 stop, plus…
please shoot for the blacks…dont let the 5D choose..
;)
(he he..not that u asked me anyways…)
Panos…
I always underexpose… from the slide days…
what can I tell you… the look ok on my cheapo netbook…
thanks for looking :)
hi eva. thanks again. started with rollei 35 on neg while stetting in. later, a D80 and a G11 – most pics you see… this is actually my first story so to speak. previous work (96->2000) was commercial. I stopped in 2005 and sold all my gear. restarted jan this year.
is this is what you asked?…
thodoris, guess digital cameras tend to produce washed out images… I agree with panos.And maybe using a pushed slide film look would block shadows, increase color saturation and contrast…hopefully you’d get some dominant color effect…I would try this under different light conditions… cheers…
Ah David, I do love that rooftop …
David
I was just thinking how the audience can be better catered for in terms of understanding essays/text posted on burn and I used myself as an example.
The first essay https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/07/imants-krumins-bum-not-as-in-person-mute/ was specifically made for the www, that was the intended media vehicle and it was successful. It is a slide show, paced as one, meant to be viewed on a back lit screen etc. The prints were created after the the essay as a separate artwork and are different to the single images in the slide show. The textural qualities take on a more tactile role than a visual one…………. this slide show nor the 3 associated images have never been altered they are two completed works.
The second slide show was a visual disaster, the intended media was a book and works at its best in that form ( David you will see what I mean, the book should reach the magnum office early next week). Back to the point, the essay looked good in my head, but then I know the the work and it was never meant to be sequenced on a linear timeline. For example book two which starts backwards and the image is really the first image of etrouko I though it does not appear in book one but does in book three etc. It was a bit hard to create that scattered timeline with so many images in a slide show though it was possible in “bum” because it is essentially variations of one image.
As the essay “etrouko the book I” was never fully nutted out and the audience was never had a hope of seeing what the essay was about and is reflected by the comments. That is the danger of half baked essays/shows etc and the visual arts are full of exhibitions that well, sorta work but not fully there and it becomes a bit of a passing parade. The audience leaves dissatisfied and without a thread to hold on to, Ballen’s stuff worked well on burn as it knew where it was going as an essay.
Singles are great as the audience finds the singles easy to respond to and can really sink their teeth into the comments. A lot more useful/positive comments are made for the creator to respond to in a more direct way. In other words they can go out and take a shot with the comments in mind and see if the recommendations worked (instantly on digital).Plus singles have a instant wow factor.
Yes the last essay grates me if you can see a reason to remove it it would be great (I can see heaps of reasons) but either way no matter it is a learning experience for me grrrr!!
David I have no dramas about you guys posting my work on burn, it has always been an honour and I am forever grateful for that. burn still is head and shoulders above what is out there in the www dot world
Thanks, Thodoris. I agree that it is better to underexpose than to overexpose and blow your highlights. Which of those were the actual entry? That’s a lot of ground to cover in one minute. I know, Lens did grant permission to fudge a minute or two. Even so, I decided to strictly limit myself to 15:00 GMT, and, in actuality, to the three seconds or so that it took to pour a cup of coffee.
Being surrounded by the great, wild, state of Alaska and the most beautiful country on this planet, I chose to take a totally mundane, indoor picture for my submission to Lens.
Anyone interested can find it, and the process that I went through to get it, on my daily photo blog:
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2010/5/2/i-suffer-many-trials-and-tribulations-then-take-a-picture-at.html
DAH
Still interested in the Burn Gallery being open the week of NYPH 10? I’m arriving the Friday of the fest and staying through Sunday evening. Please let me knwo best way to catch up with you online to coordinate…if nothing else than to meet up for a beverage if you’re in town. I will also be helping Casey out with SLPS.
Everyone….
In this busy last week I forgot to ask if anyone here is in Calgary, Canada? If so, let me know, will be there starting tomorrow for 4 or 5 days….then on to Toronto after a quick pit stop at home…
Now, off to contemplate muses, devils, and angels….and to pack.
good light,
A.
Bill…
I like your indoor picture(s) :)
I sent the 7th picture from the link above, which was taken at 18:02 local time… the one before it was taken at 18:01 but I didn’t like it as much… the one taken on 18:00 didn’t even make the cut…
For me, the whole thing was an excuse to go out and make some pictures… so, even if they were to not post my submission because it wasn’t taken close enough to 18:00:00 I wouldn’t lose sleep over it…
Panos, Rodolfo…
As for my pictures looking washed out… they look ok on my screen (I have an old crt connected to my little netbook, because I know for a fact that its screen sucks for photo-editing—and their histograms are well away from highlight overexposure too)… as a matter of fact they looked a bit too dark on my screen, so I opened them up a bit before posting… I definitely need to get a reliable screen!! Anyone has a spare Nec or Eizo laying around?)
Thodoris – Thanks. Seven was a good choice. I wish I could visit that place.
Bill, love our storytelling!.. I did shoot my ironing table, with a t-shirt of the Bangalore Hard Rock Café on top of it, which was waiting to be folded, at 5 pm here, did even open it in photoshop to resize, but then deleted it..
Rodolfo, yes, that’s what I asked for, thanks for your answer. I did ask because there’s no point in telling you that I’d love for some of your shots to have less depth of field, if said camera doesn’t allow you to obtain it (not counting that this would be my persoanl preference, and not yours).. I don’t know either of your digicams, so I wont go on with this.. still have to look at the pictures on a proper screen..
eva, ys… none of them is full frame. with this gear, only with prime lenses (or telephoto :() you’d get less depth of field. as I shot with with 35 / 28 eq… average of 5,6…
Sorry to interrupt…
My fellow Greek civilians …let’s stop the blaming and let’s start the Vision game…
we can Do It…we will do it…VIVA The new AURA…
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ERIC ESPINOZA …we LOVE you…!!!
“None of us will ever accomplish anything excellent or commanding except when he listens to this whisper which is heard by him alone.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson (American Poet, Lecturer and Essayist, 1803-1882)
P.S I listen to my silents…hmmm…I aim high…:)))
and please don’t disturb me …for the next few days…I will be studying EMILYS…
LOVE YOU BURNIANS…keep shooting …I will be watching…:)))
Panos, Rodolfo…
You were right…
Just came back from meeting a friend who’s a publisher and has one of those apple cinema displays in his office… my pictures… my poor pictures… they’re totally washed out… :((
DAH: I put a submission in for the EPF grant – a selection of 12 photographs from an on-going book project. I also sent you an email and hope you received it.
CIVI: I really like that quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson. It’s wonderful. I’ll share it.
Thodoris…matrix usually overcompensates for shadow detail…and you get blown highlights… its just about getting to know your gear. I usually stop down (excessively) when in matrix readings…
By the way, those using 5D MkII? happy?
Thanks.
anyway, I’m a poor example on exposure…;)
Having read that quote, I felt inclined to check out more about Ralph Waldo Emerson so I typed the first name into Google. What a pity that first up came a fashion label/name: Ralph Lauren. How’s that for a sign of the times…
Basic background on that other Ralph – the Transcendentalism and the New Thought movement I like and am digging deeper now. You probably all know more than this already, but here’s the first 2 paras from Wikipedia:
Ralph Waldo Emerson (May 25, 1803 – April 27, 1882) was an American essayist, philosopher, and poet, best remembered for leading the Transcendentalist movement of the mid-19th century. His teachings directly influenced the growing New Thought movement of the mid-1800s.[1] [2] He was seen as a champion of individualism and a prescient critic of the countervailing pressures of society.
Emerson gradually moved away from the religious and social beliefs of his contemporaries, formulating and expressing the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his 1836 essay, Nature. As a result of this ground-breaking work he gave a speech entitled The American Scholar in 1837, which Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. considered to be America’s “Intellectual Declaration of Independence”.[3] Considered one of the great orators of the time, Emerson’s enthusiasm and respect for his audience enraptured crowds. His support for abolitionism late in life created controversy, and at times he was subject to abuse from crowds while speaking on the topic. When asked to sum up his work, he said his central doctrine was “the infinitude of the private man.”[4]
The Transcendental Club!!!
Frederick Henry Hedge, Ralph Waldo Emerson, George Ripley, and George Putnam met in Cambridge, Massachusetts on September 8, 1836, to discuss the formation of a new club; their first official meeting was held eleven days later at Ripley’s house in Boston.[1] Other members of the club included Bronson Alcott, Orestes Brownson, Theodore Parker,[2] Henry David Thoreau, William Henry Channing, James Freeman Clarke, Christopher Pearse Cranch, Convers Francis, Sylvester Judd, and Jones Very.[3] Female members included Sophia Ripley, Margaret Fuller, Elizabeth Peabody,[4] and Ellen Sturgis Hooper.
The name Transcendental Club was given to the group by the public and not by its participants. James Elliot Cabot, a biographer of Emerson, wrote of the group as “the occasional meetings of a changing body of liberal thinkers, agreeing in nothing but their liberality”.[5] It was sometimes referred to by the nickname “the brotherhood of the ‘Like-Minded'”.[5]
The club was a meeting-place for these young thinkers and an organizing ground for their idealist frustration with the general state of society at the time.”
NICE! : )
DAH: I put a submission in for the EPF grant – a selection of 12 photographs from an on-going book project. I also sent you an email and hope you received it.
I am now off on a trip around the universe with this Transcendental Club…
“The brotherhood of the likeminded”. I like it. But it seems that women were entirely left out of it in the 19th century. Who knows, there might even have been a “Sisterhood of the likeminded?” but nobody got to hear about it because men tended to run the show to the exclusion of women back then.
The words ‘brotherhood’ and ‘sisterhood’ have such different connotations. And that’s a pity now I think of it. I can’t think of a word that combines the best of connotations of both. A word that sounds neither male or female and gives the impression of a group of people with a common goal and/or mission.
Here’s that quote again, sorry if I’m boring everyone: “None of us will ever accomplish anything excellent or commanding except when he listens to this whisper which is heard by him alone.” Ralph Waldo Emerson
It is just the most amazingly wonderful, empowering and loveliest quote I’ve heard in a while. Thanks again Civi for sharing! : )
PS Here’s the essay that blew people’s minds back then (before there was such a thing as a camera – well not quite) but anyway…
http://www.rwe.org/works/Nature__complete.htm
Sorry for hyjacking the thread. I got a little carried away and now have a stomache ache – retribution perhaps?! Leaving you in peace to go out and get something for it… perhaps a soda water with fresh lemon squeezed into it.
Okay, just one more line… anyone notice the total exaggeration back there?… women ENTIRELY left out of the equation? Did I write that? Did anyone notice? Probably not. The point IS that they were far outnumbered and unless their voices were very, very loud, they were probably constantly drowned out.
now back to the street in search of soda water and fresh squeezed lemon… : )
Completely off topic, makes me angry:
http://bit.ly/aqx6FB
Who’s him alone. Is it who I think it’s meant to be? If it is, then it’s crap.
Good luck with your EPF entry, Jenny. And edit of 12 is very efficient. I struggled to get mine to 25.
JENNY…
i saw your email and responded…your entry will be totally intact…thanks for your patience….
IMANTS…
i will go to Magnum today to receive your book….i think with all that is going on in new york right now, we should be able to at least get some good feedback….your book and Patricia’s book are my only two big pushes for publication and/or distribution this year….all i can promise of course is that i will try to have it seen by the right eyes….i will stay in close touch with you by skype etc…
i hope also that it is obvious to you and to others that i consider you one of the most valuable contributors to Burn…your artistic sensibilities are unique….combining graphic design, narrative ,subtle wit, and photography into a totally authored experience…and for sure i consider comments that you make always in the most constructive way….we want to just do the right thing here and both Anton and i value your perceptions….thank you
PATRICIA…
i know you were frustrated by the extension for the EPF, but i think when the dust settles it will be viewed overall as the right decision…we will never again put the EPF deadline anywhere near or before tax day here in the U.S.!! my mistake… however, the two week extension to May 1 basically doubled our entries, therefore making our contribution to Haitian relief and Doctors Without Borders more significant, allowing many to tweak their entries, and making so many who were previously unaware of the EPF to have a chance for project support…thanks for understanding….
ANTHONY B…
i might still take you up on your offer for helping out with a potential viewing at the Burn gallery during Photoweek….the logistics on this might be difficult given the variety of events taking place, but i am not ruling it out….best we communicate by email on this one…in any case, i look forward to seeing you here in new york….
cheers, david
David sorry but I sorta said it will be there next week you may have missed this ……( David you will see what I mean, the book should reach the magnum office early next week) ……… it hits the express post tomorrow.
I had a delay getting another from the printer as the first had a red colour cast which was my fault and I didn’t want to send it like that.
DAH: Thank you so much. I am really happy to hear that the extension doubled the number of entries! That is wonderful news for Haitian relief and Doctors Without Borders!
EVA: You have a point. One one level, it seems totally wrong and outrageous. And it has made me think that people with disabilities – even though they may be world class athletes – don’t receive the same level of recognition as others and that is clearly wrong. If David Beckham were to book a seat, I bet everyone would be going wild to accommodate him no matter what. On the other hand, we do all need to learn to look at what it written on the ticket, at the small print and also get into the habit of checking up on conditions in advance. Whoever booked the flight should perhaps have looked into it?
I also had an unpleasant experience with an airline – British Airways – or rather their conditions and/or the ticket. I bought a London-Dar-es-Salam return with them and although the ticket was for a year and the only requirement to call 72 hour in advance to confirm the seat, because I DIDN’T call them to confirm that I would NOT be returning on the date they had FORCED me to book in advance, when it came for me wanting to go home (though it was several weeks before the expiry of the ticket), they refused… so I lost the ticket. In fact, it is one of the reasons I have not been home in 4 years. Best keep going. Now I’m on a different continent – but that was down to it being far cheaper to book one way across the Indian Ocean!!! : )
PAUL: You too!!! Very exciting!
DAH…
Can someone (me) who didn’t submit for the EPF send you some money to add to the pile for Haiti?
No, that’s not entirely true about it being the only reason to cross the India Ocean, but the whole story is complex and too long to share on a line on here.
Theodoris! I love you! That is just such a wonderful comment!!!!!
IMANTS…
in that case, i will be here next week to receive your book…next week is when i would start moving it around anyway….
THODORIS…
your offer is most generous….i am just trying to think of a mechanism we can use so whatever you contribute will go right into the Haitian relief fund…i think the best thing to do is to wait until we get all the funding ready to go to Doctors Without Borders, and then you can add to it…so, do not do anything until you hear from me again….i just do not want your contribution to get lost somehow…again, many many thanks…i am really excited by our collective contribution…
cheers, david
Thanks David late here work in 6 hours catcha……..
Well I wasn’t talking about much… was kind of thinking of the “bean by bean, the sack gets full”… just wanted to add my bean…
THODORIS…
of course…compared to what some may contribute, the collective Burn contribution might even be considered small…probably around $5,000. …but, even if we just were to significantly help one family, or one school, or one clinic, then i would feel good…and i know you would too….
EVA…
i was shocked by this news story…i have never heard of such a thing…somebody made a bad decision…surely, that cannot be airline policy….
cheers, david
Thodoris – This morning, I returned to Family Restaurant for breakfast and as I sat there, eating, I found myself thinking about your pictures and the one that you had entered. Suddenly, the full, simple, power of that sedate moment in time that you captured within the theme just smacked me. Good choice, good job. Not a human to be seen, just the quiet works of men thousands of years dead, standing all alone, one moment in time after the other, since ancient days.
Eva – Thank you! I look forward to seeing your image – I am always interested in anything connected to Bangalore – a crazy, bustling, busy, town that, against all that is my basic nature (the longing for clean air, open space, and sparse population) I love insanely.
Bill…
I was very touched by what you wrote.
Not so much for the praise, since anyone with a camera visiting this place can take a decent picture, but for seeing and feeling what I see and feel when I’m visiting places like this one… this very peculiar sense (or forced reexamination of the sense and meaning) of time is what drives me back again and again to this particular place and in search of similar places altogether… it kind of washes over me…
Here is the same place in a completely different light:
http://www.tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Tzalavras_Cyprus_001.jpg
Thanks…
T.
Bill.. err.. I deleted the image before submitting..
Jenny, not only it seems wrong and outrageous, it IS. There’s no fine print that validates such a decision. Without your own legs you don’t have to bother to get on that plane, come on?!!! How will they handle the Paralympic Games in 2012, which have venues all over the UK?
David, I agree, it seems really odd that this would be airline policy.. and even if it was, I ask myself where common sense and humanity has ended up..
CIVI,
Many thanks for thinking about my birthday…We certainly LOVE YOU!!!! I have received many kind messages from many of you. That was very cool! I even discovered today that Mike Courvoisier and I are born on the same day….so happy birthday to you as well Mike!!!!
DAVID,
I recall you mentioned having been impressed by the recent pictures from Antoine D’Agata on the Palestinians… I saw these published this week-end into a French magazine (focused on Magnum photographers) for freedom of the press…really powerful photographs indeed even if John indicated these were manipulated digitally! I found some of these on the Magnum site (not yet published into official feature)….others might be interested to look at these…
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP3=ViewBox_VPage&VBID=2K1HZOMQ7TPG7&CT=Search&DT=&RW=1661&RH=785
Cheers,
Eric
Those D’Agata pictures are from 2001. That’s nine years ago. Not so recent….
KENNETH,
Huuuum….I guess there must be other more recent ones then :):). Does anyone know where these may be visible?
Eric
Gordon,
“What I really want is a classic mid sixties 150cc Vespa”
…that’s really a gourmet choice! Here is my Vespa (a 125cc late seventies model though ;):
http://www.abelequaregna.com/temp/vespa.htm
Eric
I would love to see them if there are more recent ones….and i’d like one of those vespas too :)
abele
I’m so jealous. (nice photo)
Eric
Thanks for the D’Agata link. Brilliant stuff.
Eric,
Very interesting link indeed. After looking at images PAR307170, PAR326673 and PAR374887 one might come to the conclusion that Mr Vink has a valid point..
Pk
Gordon: I have a 1961 Vespa for sale over here: 1900$, shipping not included ;-)
John Vink
Shipping would indeed be a problem.
I’m thinkin’, (in my fantasy life), pick up one of those retrovespa.com Vespas in New York, ride across the continent home to Vancouver Island, having marvelous adventures and making kick-ass photos along the way. Hmmm.
“Avoid making a commotion, just as you wouldn’t stir up the water before fishing. Don’t use a flash out of respect for the natural lighting, even when there isn’t any. If these rules aren’t followed, the photographer becomes unbearably obtrusive.”
—Henri Cartier-Bresson
“It matters little how much equipment we use; it matters much that we be masters of all we do use.”
—Sam Abell
.
“…actually, ambition won’t get you that far. You’ll shift gears. You’ll see something that’s shinier. But if you believe… then you’re the long-distance runner.”
—Sam Abell
“Go for the gut. Make a strong statement. Challenge your viewers’ intellect and sensitivities. When people love it or people hate it, THEN you know that it works.”
—Joe DiMaggio
“Thinking should be done before and after, not during photographing. Success depends on the extent of one’s general culture, one’s set of values, one’s clarity of mind, one’s vivacity. The thing to be feared most is the artificially contrived, the contrary to life.”
—Henri Cartier-Bresson
“We photographers deal in things which are continually vanishing, and when they have vanished there is no contrivance on earth can make them come back again. We cannot develop and print a memory.”
—Henri Cartier-Bresson
“There were two things I wanted to do. I wanted to show the things that had to be corrected. I wanted to show the things that had to be appreciated.”
—Lewis Hine
“The absolute worst thing a person can say about your pictures is, “That’s nice.” It’s the kiss of death.”
—Joe DiMaggio
“A mad, keen photographer needs to get out into the world and work and make mistakes.”
—Sam Abell
“Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.”
—Henri Cartier-Bresson
Hmmm; all this talk about Vespas and not a Mod in sight….
“If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live”
Albert Einstein
Ross
Now how many of us would even know who the Mods were? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mods_and_Rockers
Panos
Thanks for all that.
Mods
GORDON;
True; I’m showing my age…. Quadrophenia came out when I was 16. We had to sneak into the cinema to see it (it was R18 in conservative 70’s NZ). Quadrophenia and Apocolypse Now (R18 too) are the two movies that totally blew me away as a kid. 1979 can’t have been a bad year for movies!!!
To me Quadrophenia perfectly summed up what you felt like as a young 16-ish year old male. Spotty nerds desperately trying to be cool. And as everyone knows; if you have to try to be cool you never will be!!!
:-)
Ummm… Vespas :-) The closest we have to Italian design around my house is an Olivetti typewriter…
What I really want is a Ural Patrol, so that I can drop off my daughter at school in the morning. The wife says “No!”. http://www.imz-ural.com/patrol/
Panos, thanks for the Sam Abell quotes. I love his work – the “quiet photographer”. Plus, he’s a University of Kentucky alum, like me :-)
Justin
A neighbor of mine has one of those in bright red.
I had one of these as a teen in the mid sixties. http://www.hobbytech.com/CushID/MVC-584S.JPG
Cushman, the golf-cart manufacturer made these pieces of crap. I spent years paying for it, at my $14.00 per week newspaper delivery job, all the while wishing I had bought a Vespa for the same money.
“I’m thinkin’, (in my fantasy life), pick up one of those retrovespa.com Vespas in New York, ride across the continent home to Vancouver Island, having marvelous adventures and making kick-ass photos along the way.”
Gordon,
Check out the photographer Clay Enos (www.clayenos.com) http://www.clayenos.com/vespa/index.html
He’s currently on a Vespa tour through Latin America.
Root around on his site or one of his blogs and find his account of last years Vespa tour
from New York to the Pacific
PANOS
“Think Sideways”
Freeman Patterson
Gordon. Better link
http://www.clayenos.com/vespa/index.html
“Think Sideways” Freeman Patterson’s favourite saying…..
I don’t know what it is worth:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0503/breaking27.html
panos, the 10000 quote may be adapted to the digital age: “the content of your first 5000 memory cards are the worst”.
however, I have the impression the number resets whenever I put the card back into my camera…
John,
sounds pretty interesting and consequential to me. I hope many will buy it, when it is available finally. could not find it in the german iTunes store though.
Neat shot, Thodoris – the ancient work of man against the infinitely more ancient works of space.
By the way, I have an Apple Cinema screen and if left to its own, it is WAY too bright.
I created a calibration for mine that would allow me to process my photos for offset production. Part of that calibration is too dim the screen as much as possible with the screen controls, and part of it is to manipulate the colors and output in a way that also brings the brightness down. If I tried to prepare a photo for reproduction on the screen at its factory settings, it would look nothing but dark mud upon reproduction.
When I look at your photos on my screen at offset calibration, they do not look all that washed out. And where they are, there is plenty of information in them that would allow you to pull down the highlights a bit.
Now I’ve got to go, because I’ve got a bunch of pictures to adjust for offset.
Eva – that was an outrageous story. It hit close to home for me. I won’t ever fly Eastern, if I can help it.
Dear David,
How are you?
I really hope you’re always fine.
I’ve just sent my dummy books (two different edits)to Beach Home.
And sent e-mail to you by gmail(kyungheekorea@gmail.com).
Please check it up.
Best wishes,
Kyunghee Lee
panos you have a back focus ally in Kyunghee Lee
for the moment in time bunch…
http://www.bophoto.co.uk/wpblog/?p=163
EVA: Sorry if you find what I wrote offensive. As I said, I DO agree that the it is completely outrageous and wrong IF the decision indeed relates to airline policy. But if it doesn’t relate to airline policy, I feel we need more information than was written in that story to understand why the decision was taken.
Panos, “Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.”…
ahhhh…must do 9,980 pictures… ;) :)
counting…
Cheers
David Bowen
You’re moment in time photograph is lovely.
Nowadays probably more like 100,000…..
Bill…
Thanks for the info about the mac display… when I said my pictures looked washed out yesterday, I meant in comparison to how they look on my screen…
I’m in the process (actually have being putting in off for a while now) of setting up a new PC along with a new screen… money (of course), and the countless options offered for each component—and the compatibility issues that might arise if not selected properly—have been the main reasons for the delay…
As for the files themselves, they’re definitely ok… they just looked a bit too dull and blocked on my screen so I opened them up a bit… and in any case, I shoot raw+jpg so, if/when I decide to print any of them I have the raw to fall back on…
Rodolfo…
Regarding the matrix metering on the 5Dii…
Coming from a Leica R8 and a Mamiya 645 ProTL both of which I used exclusively on spot metering, I initially set the 5D on spot too, but… for some reason when you take a spot metering and then recompose (in aperture priority mode and while keeping the shutter half-depressed) the metering changes… there is a separate exposure-lock button on the back (marked *) but having been used to using just the shutter release for this way of shooting I tried out the other metering options before reading the camera manual in its entirety (where one can read about custom functions that override how some of the buttons behave)… so, finding out that in matrix mode the shutter release has exposure-lock function enabled, solved my problem and I didn’t look any further… and the pictures I posted were exposed for the sky, so highlights are intact… this is the way I currently use this camera in Av mode…
Cheers…
Thodoris – Glad it’s working out… sorry.
And for the 5D haters among us (hi Panos:) the black and white picture from the same place I posted, was shot with a Horseman 6×9… you know… all manual and shit… oh, and a rangefinder on top of that…
What not to love… :))
Thodoris, just saw your post… ys, i get it. looks you’ve got things under control… you happy with the 5D?
Rodolfo…
As far as user experience goes, yes… as far as final results go (as in exhibition prints and what not) I have no opinion yet… up to now, I’m just shooting and archiving…
In general I find that good pictures can be made with *any* camera… a couple of my all time favorites were shot with disposables… so, my attitude is that it’s only a tool, like any other camera around… another expensive camera obscura with some bells and whistles on it…
Thodoris thx… I have to buy new gear, and I’m a bit worried, as I never used a canon before (except for an old AE-1 and a G11 p&s, but these do not count)…
I’ve used mostly Nikon and Contax…
and I would definitely go for a rangefinder…
Cheers.
Finally found a better link to Mak Remissa’s pictures I talked you about some time ago…:
http://www.asiamotion.net/index.php?option=com_g2bridge&view=gallery&Itemid=3&lang=en&g2_itemId=1928
canon seems appealing in relation to price/features….
I love the 5D…
full frame, adapter for Leitz lenses or a Zeiss…excellent…If you forget the canon zooms that kill the quality and if you scratch out or paint the canon logo black (i know a guy that does that in Istanbul for very cheap ) you got a great camera plus the video u cant have on the D700 and u got a winner…
wHaT nOt tO lOvE?
again – nikon (for top flash) AND canon (for excellent prines) .. slr (for this and that) AND rangefinder (for that and this) .. mac AND pc ..
ebony AND ivory,
live together in perfect harmony..
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blah blah
blah blah
why can´t weeeeeeee?
comparing a 5D with a rangefinder though is like comparing a vespa with a school bus….
No sane parent would ever send his kids to school with a vespa.. A school bus is faster , safer and can accommodate up to 50 kids…apples and oranges , i know..:)
ebony AND ivory
—————-
ahh u made my day
Panos, ys… thx…
any advice on the voigtlander? R2M?
paradoxically, while recording ebony and ivory mcartney mentioned that the beatles publishing rights archive was up for grabs..
jackson bought them
would not sell to mcartney..
they fell out..
kids, eh?
tsck
on a serious note…does anyone know about an adapter that allows canon FD series (good ol real glass) on the eos digital system? so far i have found adapters that u can use FD canon primes on nikons but cant find an adapter to fit old FD canons on a new canon…i know there are many techno geeks/freaks out there..
Rodolfo…
(u know that voigt is my weak spot..hands one…better than any leica)
http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtrwhich.htm
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=canon+fd+to+eos+adapter&_sacat=See-All-Categories
now.. i´m dying to get an m4p and stick a nikon fisheye on it.
and this is the SICKEST lens ever…a poem , a masterpiece….F1.4 nokton…lightest 1.4 lens for leica M for just $399…all time winner…godlike…
http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt4014.htm
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=canon+fd+to+eos+adapter&_sacat=See-All-Categories
ahh – was recording ¨the girl is mine¨ that jackson n mcartney feel out..
my memory for the 80´s.. gone.
hmm – burn not letting me post..
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=canon+fd+to+eos+adapter&_sacat=See-All-Categories
this link?!
ebay link.. panos – search ebay and there are fd to eos adapters cheap as chips.
also – my bad.. mcartney and jackon fell out during ¨the girl is mine¨.
my memory for the 80´s is shot.
Imants..:)
im just a bad imitator of K.Lee’s back focus technique …
;)
Panos…
Your personal freak/geek at your service… :))
Haven’t use it, know nothing about it, but here it is nonetheless:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/522370-REG/Bower_ABEOS_Lens_Adapter_FD.html#features
also, freaks and geeks was an awesome show!!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0193676
internet – scary internet..
copyright rears it´s bulbus head again over the haiti photos
and there is an interview with Stuart Franklin & Olivier Laurent on the Big British Castle
what will when?
how do we what?
what do we where?
why do we how?
and other news..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0077m2n
DB, u sure?
i have a friend here, canon enthusiast (at its mildest) that swears he searched everywhere..he even found adapters that allows nikons and pentax to wear FD but couldnt find one that fits on an eos rebel for example..
but I’ll give it an ebay search as u mentioned…:)
Panos, looks great… downside would be the film holder, not quite Leica quality (?) That is my doubt, besides scanning film…time consuming…and all…
Ah! I almost bought one R2M in Madrid a month ago…looks really great.
oh Thodoris…thank you..but my bad ..i forgot to mention i was looking for simple adapter..that means NO GLASS teleconverter like…but thank u for searching..:))
half priced…:)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UK-Canon-FD-Lens-EOS-EF-Body-Camera-Mount-Adapter-/370308631165?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item56381d4a7d
¨stuart franklin, one of magnums ´snappers´, as they don´t call themselves¨
haha – the BBC guy is DRY…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p0077m2n
Away from hardware. Here is some poetry:
http://www.asiamotion.net/index.php?option=com_g2bridge&view=gallery&Itemid=3&lang=en&g2_itemId=1928
(I told you about MAk Remissa before but this link is much better)
Can’t post a nice link here… What’s up…
DB, Thodoris..thank u guys..i’ll transfer the news to my canon friend…
his name “Dimitri the Philosopher”
Panos… there isn’t one… why?…:
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses/#canonfd
a better link:
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/eosfaq/manual_focus_EOS.html
John…
u obviously impressed by Mak…not my style of poetry but im looking at the link again…
there must be a reason for mr.Vink to be impressed…im looking for it:)
for most cameras
Mechanical adapters [with no optics] and which maintain infinity focus may be possible
for Eos
Adapters would [need optics] for infinity focus and act as weak multipliers
(i was looking for a no glass/no optic one but i guess there is noone…thanks again Thodoris:)
T..(from your link above)
Canon’s optic-containing FD-lens-on-EOS-body adapters were basically small teleconverters (1.26x)
They were known as the “Canon Lens Converter FD-EOS” and were not sold to the public – only accredited professional photographers could acquire them through Canon Professional Services. Apparently they were intended to help pro photographers who had a big investment in huge Canon FD telephoto lenses make the transition to the EOS system. These adapters are thus quite rare, specialized and hard to find today. When they appear on auction sites they tend to have rather high winning bids.
Third parties have made similar glass-containing adapters, but by contrast their optics are usually poor and thus image quality tends to be generally low.
(u see i think the FD series had some great primes..great Quality…unfortunately the glass in those teneconverter like adapters bring the quality down..thats why we were looking for a no glass adapter…)
mtomalty
“Check out the photographer Clay Enos (www.clayenos.com) http://www.clayenos.com/vespa/index.html”
Aww, now I’m REALLY jealous!
Actually, I’ve now decided that Clay is just me in an alternate universe.
classy…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/gloucestershire/8660449.stm
Hello All — I am pleased to announce that prints from my essay Fight Journal are soon going to be on display.
First published on burn earlier this year, Fight Journal has been selected to be a part of Battle Royale: The Bemis Building’s annual juried spring art show.
The Bemis Building is part of SODO Arts, a collective of artists and business in Seattle’s industrial SODO neighborhood. Battle Royale is a semi-annual Art Studio tour event where six buildings open their doors to showcase over 75 artists for an open studio tour and artwalk.
For those of you that happen to be in the Seattle area, Please join me. It would be great to meet any of you in person.
Where: The Bemis Building 55 South Atlantic Street. Seattle, WA
When: May 15th 10AM-8PM
Cheers!
Adam
ALL,
a coincidence: april 23, the day DAH opened his “American Family” in Madrid (Spain), was also the opening of Pauliana Valente Pimentel exhibition “Trans-Caucásia”, in Lisbon (Portugal).
to be seen until may 29, tuesday to saturday, from 2 to 8pm, at Galeria 3+1 Arte Contemporânea.
http://picasaweb.google.pt/3m1arte/PaulianaTranscaucassia#
“With 22 years old Calouste Sarkis Gulbenkian made his first major trip to the discovery of Transcaucasia, who gave birth to “La Transcaucasie et la construction d’Apchéron Peninsula – Souvenirs de Voyage” (1890). Over a century later, Pauliana Valente Pimentel and Sandra Rocha presented to Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation (FCG) a revisit to the places he traveled, recording photographically everyday situations, from a perspective that lies between the documentary and the poetic and the result can be seen in the book “Caucase – Souvenirs Voyage” to be released in 2010 by FCG. For her solo exhibition, Pauliana brings nearly two dozen photographs which record the interiors of houses where he lived and with whom he shared the day-to-day on this trip by Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan. She said, “The trip was difficult, intense and at the same time an incredible simplicity, everything seemed frozen in time, with a touch of Soviet aesthetic permeated everywhere.” (from press-release)
some of you may already know her (work)… Pauliana is a member of kameraphoto
http://www.kameraphoto.com/kphotographers/bio.php?lang=en&artistID=6
um forte abraço para todos,
Carlos Filipe Maia
CARLOS…
if you see Pauliana, please give her my warmest regards and my congratulations for her show…she is a fine photographer to be sure…..somehow i have lost touch with her..Pauliana was a student of mine, later ran a workshop for me in Lisbon, and a photograph of her is in Divided Soul…Pauliana is a one of a kind personality and talent…a true joy and energy personified…..and i would love to see/meet her child who MUST be equally unique….
ADAM..
congratulations on being selected for Battle Royale…i wish i could be there to see Fight Journal in exhibition form…please take a few pictures of the show and post here if you have a chance….
cheers, david
Rodolfo, don’t know about the R2M, but the R4M is quite nice, reliable and solid enough.. it’s lighter built than a Leica, but what counts is the lens.. I’m quite happy with mine!
Jenny, no problem, really, but things like these really make me angry!
Thx eva. The reason for the R2 is just about the lens I plan using… thinking…
eva, ok to remove pics?
Rodolfo, sorry, wont have time until tomorrow..
Bob, any pics of the opening of Marina’s show??
Adam Lach – Poland after Smolensk
Good photography, have a look
http://www.newsweek.pl/multimedia/wszystkie,Fotocast,Najnowsze,1/57685
Hi David. I just sent you an improved lightbox.
Hope all’s going well with Rio shoot selection.
while it´s quiet..
new blog posts –
http://bophoto.co.uk/wpwastedbook/
http://www.bophoto.co.uk/wpblog/
Hey Bowen – I’ve looked at yours !
Now look at Mine,
http://glenncampbellspictures.com/blog/
such a good template glenn.. looks great
GLENN,
Birdsville Hotel in oblique light with the dog slinking off in silhouette on the right…Brilliant!
big strike/riots again in athens today…
Who is behind this game?
GOLDMAN SACHS and wall street destroying greece…
please start from minute 3:26 to go straight to the point:
Goldman responsible for Greek crisis
Is Italy next just because of MORGAN/CHASE?
how about Portugal and Spain’s 20% unemployment?
Is Euro in trouble? on purpose?
What is the real plan behind the fake crisis in greece?
Of course “they” started with the weak link…but the US could get affected..
how? wait..you will see…
3 DEAD ALREADY IN ATHENS!
ONE OF THEM A PREGNANT WOMAN
SHAME ON THE GOVERNMENT!
SHAME ON THE GREEK GOVERNMENT THAT DID THE DIRTY DEAL WITH THE WALL STREET (IMF) AND SHAME ON MERKEL…
and all the european leaders that want a weakening of “euro” to help their exports…
BREAKING NEWS
EXTREME ANARCHY AND VIOLENCE IN ATHENS…
the letter G:(greece) from the word PIGS (Portugal,Italy,Greece,Spain)is first to go down…
All i can say in this tragic moment is this:
DO SOMETHING…not for greece but for yourselves..u might be NEXT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8661385.stm
UK budget deficit ‘to surpass Greece’s as worst in EU’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/05/uk-budget-deficit-worse-than-greece
And this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/interactive/2010/apr/28/europe-economy-dominoes-greece-eu
Ahhhh Rodolfo…we all know UK’s troubles too…but the UK is not in the euro, therefore they can “play” with the sterling…A weak sterling means good exports…Unfortunately, yes..the UK could be next…Im not happy about that either…UK is Not responsible for all that..neither is tiny greece…Its the Wall street gamblers and their bankers behind it…Its global economy now..like hyenas ..once u “eat” the weak sheep…once u break the weak link (greece) then we have the Domino effect!
Goldman Sachs cant get cheap money now so they turn their back to their (customers) victims…
Panos, speechless… :(
the Euro is falling again…to the $..
from 1.60 to 1.50 to 1.33 to 1.29 right now…
who is winning? the ones that export
who is losing? the weaker ones…Is it the fall of EE?
How about all the homeowners in america that lost their houses…homeless in the 08 crisis..
when the housing Bubble busted?
U see any connection?
Rodolfo..its A GAME…A VERY WELL DESIGNED GAME…
ITS NOT GREECE THEY ARE AFTER….greece is a little joke..
what really saddens me is that many newspapers around europe that reach the masses all those months made it look like poor greece is like the bad student needs to be punished..and then everything will be ok…
Look at Argentina..they asked help from the IMF (INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND) and they bankrupt ..
but look at Turkey..They refused IMF’s “help” and they prospered…I think Turkey had the balls to see the trap…
IMF/World Bank support of military dictatorships
The role of the Bretton Woods institutions has been controversial since the late Cold War period, as the IMF policy makers supported military dictatorships friendly to American and European corporations. Critics also claim that the IMF is generally apathetic or hostile to their views of democracy, human rights, and labor rights. The controversy has helped spark the Anti-globalization movement. Arguments in favor of the IMF say that economic stability is a precursor to democracy; however, critics highlight various examples in which democratized countries fell after receiving IMF loans.[22]
In the 1960s, the IMF and the World Bank supported the government of Brazil’s military dictator Castello Branco with tens of millions of dollars of loans and credit that were denied to previous democratically-elected governments.[23]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund
Impact on access to food
A number of civil society organizations[36] have criticized the IMF’s policies for their impact on peoples’ access to food, particularly in developing countries. In October 2008, former US President Bill Clinton joined this chorus in a speech to the United Nations World Food Day, which criticized the World Bank and IMF for their policies on food and agriculture:
We need the World Bank, the IMF, all the big foundations, and all the governments to admit that, for 30 years, we all blew it, including me when I was President. We were wrong to believe that food was like some other product in international trade, and we all have to go back to a more responsible and sustainable form of agriculture.
– Former US President Bill Clinton, Speech at United Nations World Food Day, October 16, 2008 [37]
[edit]Impact on public health
In 2008, a study by analysts from Cambridge and Yale universities published on the open-access Public Library of Science concluded that strict conditions on the international loans by the IMF resulted in thousands of deaths in Eastern Europe by tuberculosis as public health care had to be weakened. In the 21 countries to which the IMF had given loans, tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6 %.[38]
IMF AND TUBERCULOSIS! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????????????????????????????????
In 2008, a study by analysts from Cambridge and Yale universities published on the open-access Public Library of Science concluded that strict conditions on the international loans by the IMF resulted in thousands of deaths in Eastern Europe by tuberculosis as public health care had to be weakened. In the 21 countries to which the IMF had given loans, tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6 %.
tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6 %
tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6 %
tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6 %
tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6 %
tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6 %
I guess we’ve reached a stalling point in our economic models… we’re using far too much resources. Too many times at the expense of others.. as an example on the last decade, product life cycles have been extremely reduced (profits…and controlled innovation) and this is not sustainable… Hope some good comes out of this….
And I’m sorry to hear the bad news from your country…
Thanks David. I’ll be sure and take a few shots of the exhibit and post them here.
Best,
Adam
I guess you’re right. It’s not just about Greece…It concerns all.
Ahhhh Rodolfo…i have two countries…greece and the US..
both bankrupt…both for the same reason..
from the CIA website:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
“The merchandise trade deficit reached a record $840 billion in 2008 before shrinking to $450 billion in 2009. The global economic downturn, the sub-prime mortgage crisis, investment bank failures, falling home prices, and tight credit pushed the United States into a recession by mid-2008. GDP contracted until the third quarter of 2009, making this the deepest and longest downturn since the Great Depression.”
Did you know that the US borrows billions and billions from my beloved China???
but yes..its not a local “greek” problems…
LISTEN TO THE NEWS NOW…
PORTUGAL JUST downgraded in the credit system by two points from Standard & Poors..
Game on..I feel sorry for Europe..:(
PANOS,
usually you are too “quick”…too “extreme” for my old civilian mind BUT today …oime today…
your words really shook my brain cells…
to MY GREEK people …please, WE GOT TO FIND A VISION… a new VISION…we got to evolve…keep it together… cause we just started …
hmmm…I LOVE YOU ALL
ok..i apologize for all that..its happened to be happening right in front of my eyes…
3 Dead, more than 20 in hospitals wounded…
All that for Someone Elses Money….
over and out..back to your regular programming…
Nikon vs Canon, anyone?
PANOS,
are you in the Sintagma… the night…doesn’t look good…go West…
yeap, back to our regular program
Civiliaaaaaan…
where u at?
THE REVOLUTION JUST STARTED..
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED………..
Dead Kennedys vs Gil Scott Heron – “Revolution Uber Alles”
Just a contribution…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rj7Sg8QRJI
Stay cool…
that Drysdale-esque moment that symbolizes country town Australia for me – hard light, long shadows and dash of loneliness.
Great stuff, Glenn. Who’s Drysdale?
BTW, you are hereby informed that that quote is forthwith and fortnightly copyrighted by a lingering memory from my childhood.
Ahhh Rodolfo…RATM..!!!!its been already 10 years since we closed down that little coffee shop we had together with YTimK (base player of Rage) in Santa Monica…glory days
How can a system that requires exponentially increasing purchases from 20 percent of the world’s population and virtual enslavement of the rest go wrong? It makes no sense. Who could have possibly seen it coming?
Oops, forgot to include the regulatory youtube clip to illustrate my comment on global economics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8__EwAT8VM
This comment, btw, is copyrighted by an embarrassing thought I will have some time in the not-to-distant future.
And to be specific…about the coffee shop i had with Rage Against The Machine’s base player ..
we closed it pretty much right after the 9/11 towers attack…
great coincidence
go Panos ! !
Panos,
Send us some pics if you get one.
PANOS…
is it your destiny to cover Greece in this time of turmoil? i know you were planning to come back to Los Angeles, but maybe maybe as painful as it may be, you should think about documenting seriously these times…just a thought which i am sure has already more than crossed your mind…curious about your feelings on this…
cheers, david
Hi David,
And what NatGeo editors said about your photos from Rio? Mission completed?
Panos…”is it your destiny to cover Greece in this time of turmoil?” sounds perfect. I wasn’t really sure of what to suggest (or in fact IF a suggestion was in order)…I’m sure you’re able to make your statement about this situation.
If Panos is in Athens and not covering, than I don’t get it. Actually, it was a very short sequence but I thought i saw him in the corner of a frame, on TV here in Thailand (on Al-Jazeera.english, great station BTW). If so, he was with a bunch of photographers, shooting a row of Special Forces, a few feet across from them. I can’t swear.
I can’t believe they had 3 dead again, from setting fire on a bank. For crissakes, Greece is not Thailand, and protesters are not red shirt para-militaries! Greece, get a grip of yourself!
I remember david asked you and you could not do it with the family of the person deceased last year, well i am wondering if you will be more succesful this time, and you let us see that all this violence is affecting people who had nothing to do with the financial meltdown, as well as putting faces behind the pain and loss wantonly endured.
Love to all.
“Our inner strengths, experiences, and truths cannot be lost, destroyed, or taken away. Every person has an inborn worth and can contribute to the human community. We all can treat one another with dignity and respect, provide opportunities to grow toward our fullest lives and help one another discover and develop our unique gifts. We each deserve this and we all can extend it to others.”
by someone
…
“One’s dignity may be assaulted, vandalized and cruelly mocked, but it cannot be taken away unless it is surrendered”
never give up …never surrender
tank park salute
http://www.bophoto.co.uk/wpblog/?p=177
HERVE…long lost BURNIAN…
it’s not about “success”…
hmmmmmmmm….if I was PANOS…I would never publish those pics…
BUT what do I know…I am just a civilian…:)))
LOVE PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY
Civi
You are not just civilian, you are The Civilian!
My first thoughts when I see riots in Athens in tv is that guys are family of a girl (or girls) seduced by Panos :)
but out of joking… I hope all ours Greek friends are well.
it’s a shame that innocent people have to die because some idiots think throwing molotov cocktails into buildings is the way to make a statement, and then go on to attack firemen etc who are trying to rescue those trapped in the burning buildings. it’s disgusting.
PANOS,
I was just watching the news this evening and seeing again the mess in Greece and I was thinking about you… I think that David’s advice is a good one… this is a very unique time and you should be staying to document this…LA can wait…
Cheers,
Eric
DAVID,
Like Marcin, I am curious to know how your meeting went? I remember watching the “longer” version of the Natgeo video done about you when you were in Bahia…there was a dedicated sequence during which you were going to present your work at the DC head-office…like you just did yesterday…this seemed like a very serious deal…”judgement day” for the photographer!!!…the famous blue blazer was out :):):) I am sure it all went well!!!! If someone can cover Rio this has to be you!!!!!
Keep us posted!
Eric
DAH,
On a less serious note than the collapse of Europe and tragedy in Greece I was wondering how you are sill getting on with the GF1? Does the viewfinder on top work for you? And has any of the GF1 made the cut for Nat Geo? I have a bit of $ in the gear fund and thinking of taking the plunge but just not sure….
PANOS,
What a dilemma you have. It’s history in the making, but I understand how it may or may not be your history. Only you can decide to stay or go for whatever reasons. I do still kick myself for not covering the WTO riots here in Seattle but at the time I was going through some really fucked up family stuff and just didn’t need any more conflict in my life. As it was, I ended up with riot police outside my house and stopped them from beating a kid by shouting from my window that I had a video camera (I didn’t).
Stay safe and hopefully we can look each other up in LA at some point.
CP
PANOS, dude, you are uniquely placed to shoot these circumstances in Greece — from the underground, backalley, graffiti-splaying perspective. All Reuters gets are the stock protest pics, and that’s all the world sees. This could be your calling.
PANOS,
Yeah, Preston’s right. Find your angle on it, even if it’s from a “family” perspective. Don’t worry about being a Zoriah…:)
CP
David Bowen – Re Tank Park Salute – Very Thoughtful and NOT self indulgent!
Sidney – Thanks mate!
Michael Webster – The Drysdale in Drysdale-esque is Russell Drysdale a great Australian Painter who is a big part of my visual history ,I have been looking to his work to point the way for me for a long time now.
http://images.google.com.au/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=Russell%20Drysdale&cr=countryAU&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
Panos, dude I hope you linger longer to make work on this crises. Greece really needs to settle down some. The more damage and death, the more it’ll cost everyone.
I think the Greeks know the truth of the situation. The Greek public sector has always been too, too inflated. Much like Ireland’s but with substantial corruption. It was never going to be sustainable. Particularly as the Greek authorities have never properly collected taxes. The level of waste that is endemic in Greece boggles the mind. I’m quite certain most Greeks are resigned to that fact. They must be.
This is everyone’s history, is it not? This is a global issue. It could go well beyond Europe.
Be careful and make great work.
Panos, man. I was thinking of you and civi today. What a thing to wake up to. My first thought was why run screaming through the streets killing people? What in the world will that do except kill innocent people?
When David spoke about Panos shooting the scene I thought sounds like it would be logical. Then I read Civi’s comment–I agree. What’s to tell except a bunch of people get mad because their own consumerism has eaten the economy. Puke. Puke. Puke.
Compassion and stop going into debt. You know our countries can go into debt but we don’t have to follow their example. Stay free; you will be glad you did in a few years.
Lee
Panos, shoot your country and the courage, compassion, and sharing that will no doubt be displayed; do not give anarchists any recognition of their ignorance. I am preaching? Just so tired of this. This is what I am also looking for on this trip to the US mainland–the spirit of humanity and the Body Language of Love.
BTW, I received this link in an email today. http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=NINOxRxze9k
Anyone know what this is all about? This is what it said in the email about the film:
104 YEAR OLD FILM CLIP
“you are there” for a cable car ride in San Francisco”
This film was “lost” for many years. It was the first 35mm film ever. It was taken by camera mounted on the front of a cable car.
The number of automobiles is staggering for 1906. Absolutely amazing! The clock tower at the end of Market Street at the Embarcadero wharf is still there. … How many “street cleaning” people were employed to pick up after the horses? Talk about going green!
Great historical film! Watch the scampering as Joe Public
race away from autos, horses, cable cars and bicycles.
This film, originally thought to be from 1905 until David Kiehn with the Niles Essanay Silent Film Museum figured out exactly when it was shot. From New York trade papers announcing the film showing to the wet streets from recent heavy rainfall & shadows indicating time of year & actual weather and conditions on historical record, even when the cars were registered (he even knows who owned them and when the plates were issued!).. It was filmed only four days before the Great California Earthquake of April 18th 1906 and shipped by train to NY for processing. Amazing, but true!
Thomas Stanworth
Welcome to Burn.
Spectacular stuff on your site.
Panos and Civi:
First, Panos, get your pictures, whatever angle you come at it from.
Civi – However this turns, keep that love strong.
Both of you: stay safe.
PANOS…and CIVI
thinking of you as most of us here are, I suppose….just saw more expanded coverage on the news here in Canada. Panos, I agree with David that perhaps this is circumstance and destiny and opportunity for you, opportunity to show the side of Greece you know and and is in your spirit, to show that there are still people there who get it…but I do see how it could be a very difficult thing to do…but isn’t that what we’ve all been saying makes the most compelling images? Things close to us, things about which we are passionate?
And echoing Bill…both of you keep the love strong and stay safe.
GLENN,
Love the images and blog template…I too like the dog slinking off the porch of the golden-lit motel.
ALL
Will be in Toronto next week, meeting up a few burnian photogs…anyone else in the neighborhood let me know…hope to get to see Marina’s show….will of course take and post images.
DAH
Congrats on Rio. Get the expense report done amigo! I know what it’s like, they are easily let go but then seem to get harder and harder to finish, and all the while being out the money..I know…I have 2 trips not counting this one to get done this weekend…
Also just sent you an email about NYPH 10…to the burn email, if there is another place better to send please let me know…looking forward to seeing you there!
good light to all – there’s not much of it up here in Calgary, so hopefully it’s gettingput to good use somewhere. Cold and snowing and grey here since I landed….
a.
Oh, and while perhaps not on the scale of the situation in Greece, and the oil slick off the coast, I want to point out another natural disaster going on now right here in the backyards of us in the US…the flooding in the historic, artistic city of Nashville. I am a bit disenheartened that the topic made 15 minutes on the news, and was quickly relegated to the back pages…
These words written to me two nights ago from my close friend Grace sum it up. I’m sure she doesn’t mind me using them…
“I am a Worried Wendy tonight. I see the dominoes of this natural disaster. It’s a brilliant, horrific 200,000 brick display, really YouTube worthy. We’re standing in the middle of it, in nothing but our rain boots…, watching it go and go…… and the rest of the country is in the other room eating Moon Pies and watching CNN coverage of the Gulf.
“It has been called Nashtrina by a bold and bitter few who recognize that this city will never be the same. Maybe we’re being dramatic. But seriously. What else could you expect from a city full of artists?”
Perhaps it is effecting me more because I shared and strolled and enjoyed those very streets and wonderful music bars just last week. Some of the very places I took street photos are now under water.
And showing it is a city of artists, indeed…and in the late night burn spirit of youtube, I give you this bit I found yesterday…
affect, not effect.
and where is everyone????
okay england.. here we go..
BNP showing true ignorance..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXuu3jZd0tE&feature=player_embedded
here we go :ø)
David B;
Thought you may be interested in this link, http://www.gtaranaki.co.nz
Isn’t it great when little provincial places pull these things off? Who would’ve thought they could’ve got hold of Slash? The first festival was so successful that word obviously got out, and they got some big names for that one too. There’s no way he’ll be here for the money that’s for sure. It’s certainly put a few of the big city’s noses out of joint!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taranaki_Region
DB….
hahahahahahahah freudian slip that he didn’t remember the date of the election….priceless.
events like that are essential ross..
in electronic music as well – the only way to really fight the big labels domination when combined with social networking sites and ¨the future¨ of how people will / are buying music.
everyone has the chance these days – it is just about getting inspiration in front of people so they can do it for themselves.. enabling.
nice 1
Last time they had plenty of free workshops and gigs for the kids too. It was a good idea to hold it biennially; more time for sponsors etc…
my mates in derry are doing similar this year with celtronic..
http://www.celtronicfestival.com/Default.asp?id=23
those guys blow me away – clean ethics come as second nature..
andrew b
less funny – the BNP on the campaign trail..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8663742.stm
the sad thing is that they have seats.. people actually vote these nobbers into local politics.
___
David Bowen: THANK YOU! I thought our seatsitters down here were the only ones so ignorant, good to hear we all sit in the same boat.. (attention, it’s a sarcastic/tragic comment)..
Methinks I surf too much:
about women, trousers, Paris and breaking the law.. http://bit.ly/cYpmrc
ALL: If you are in the US, have some spare days, and feel inspired to lend a hand with the job of cleaning and/or documenting the latest huge oil spill and clean-up efforts, here’s a useful number (Greenpeace USA): 1-866-448-5816
This, from Wikipedia on what became ‘the most devastating human-caused environmental disaster’ ever to occur in history (so far):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill
And this from British Petroleum citing that offshore drilling is safe:
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/30/bp-offshore-testify/
eva
trouser ban :ø) brilliant stuff..
enjoy this
¨Other lesser-known laws making the list included one banning eating mince pies on Christmas Day and another from 1313 stating it is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament wearing a suit of armour. ¨
ahh – *great* britain
DAVIDB: I would think that entering wearing a suit of armour is probably the best way nowadays!
Back on Safari. Burn’s not working on Chrome. Very twitchy. It crashed my browser several time last evening and this morning.
MARCIN…ERIC
yesterday was a good day…the review at NatGeo of my Rio work could not have been more smooth…i do want to go back one more time for a few refinements, but mostly just to be totally absorbed in the “texture” of it all…there are always editorial points to be made on any story and i have done those…so now comes the “icing on the cake” so to speak…
one of the most pleasant things about shooting for NatGeo all along has been their always inclusion of the photographers in the whole story process from beginning to end…i know of no other magazine which has the photographers so closely involved with the whole editorial process…in the viewing room yesterday, as always, were text editors, map makers, legend writers, researchers, designers and of course the picture editor, Susan Welchman, who i work with on many of my most leading edge stories…
the process of viewing the pictures is quite simple…Chris Johns, Editor, sits next to the photographer and allows explanation of each picture as it comes up on the screen…this verbal caption time allows the photographer to explain his or her approach and reasoning for the inclusion of any particular picture in the show…any one of the dozen or so people in the room may ask a question of the photographer about either the picture on the screen or afterwords about any future intent or coverage needed….in this case, the writer was not in Washington, but his text will play a role in the overall story development….we work together to at least be on the same page in the overall concept , but neither of us is married to each other on either his interviews nor my individual imagery…this freedom allows both of us to express ourselves in the best way possible, yet sticking with the overall theme…for this you must wait to see the Magazine!!
yesterday i showed 35 pictures from my 5 weeks of shooting…in retrospect i probably should have cut it down to 30….my return to Rio for another 2-3 weeks of shooting will most likely yield another 4-5 photographs which would warrant publication…in the final layout which will be done most likely this summer, i will probably have about a 22 page story which would contain maybe 15 pictures…this is an educated guess of course….there are many variables…
15 pictures published from approximately 8 weeks of steady shooting may not sound like a lot to some…but, frankly i think it is just about right for a magazine story…often days go into the making of one picture when you figure in the research, securing of permissions, the evolution of contacts, and the countless variables that make all photography so so much more difficult than it may seem…and some photographs which may be even well executed could end up not being used simply because in the long run they just do not make sense for the story….
those photographs which may be excluded from the magazine may end up in the book which i do see coming out of all this, which might include somewhere between 60-70 photographs…but, i will just have to wait and see how it feels at the end…for me a book is not just a collection of images, but must have a life of its own…
as soon as we finish with the EPF and get BURN 01 printed, my first new addition for Burn will be interviews with various editorial teams at a variety of top magazines including NatGeo, …so readers here will know firsthand how editors think about photography and its role in their respective magazines…i think this would be one of the most helpful things i could do for the readers of Burn who do seek editorial assignments…
cheers, david
Thanks for that David, and I look forward to seeing the interviews with editors you mention. I’ve been wondering about your Rio trip in that context for awhile. Did the photographs drive the written story? Or were you shooting based on what the writer/editors planned on writing about, which would be normal as I understand it? Or was there a creative interchange, each driving the other at various points in the process? Does NatGeo always work that way, or do you get much more say based on your long and very successful relationship?
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
i just added a few lines to the comment above which may help clarify….while NatGeo is clearly a “picture driven” magazine, i think anyone who has actually read the magazine in recent years will see a clear initiative on the part of Chris Johns to move the writing side far forward…this of course does not take away at all from the overall influence of pictures in this particular publication….nor the overall influence by photographers over the years to help shape the magazine…please remember that Chris Johns himself was a working shooting photographer for the magazine before he became Editor…please look up his book: Wild At Heart….
you may or may not know that Rio was a proposal of mine…as are most of the stories i do….and,in fact, photographer proposals count for a very high percentage of stories produced by the magazine…photographers are treated with great respect at NatGeo….not only for their photography , but for their ideas on the story in general….photographers are expected to be the “resident experts” on any story being done…i have always joked that on any story done every photographer has earned a PhD worth of information on any given topic….
yes, pictures matter number one…but pictures attached to editorial ideas, concepts, etc. matter the most…when i am doing a “verbal caption”, i am NEVER talking about the picture…the editors can see for themselves the picture… and its manifestations of light, composition, texture, and emotional impact etc etc….i only refer to what the picture is ABOUT in its context with the overall essay…worst mistake any photographer can ever make at any magazine is to talk about the quality of their picture up on the screen or how hard it was to take etc etc….the picture itself should speak for itself…
i hope this helps…if i have forgotten something, please ask…
flying home now…back soonest
cheers, david
David, once the magazine is out, could you use the published pictures there also in the book?
EVA…
yes….i own copyright on all of my pictures….i must simply wait for 90 days after publication in the Magazine to then do whatever i want with the photographs….their commission to me guarantees them first publication rights of course…ok, off to airport and home…we can go over more details if you wish as soon as i get back “on”
cheers, david
NO pressure here Panos…
Stay safe.
Thanks David. I’m always interested in how things work at different magazines. It’s surprising how many different workflows there are to achieve essentially the same ends. I’ve noticed that there does seem to be a connection between the respect that publishers afford their editorial staff and the overall quality of the magazine. NatGeo sounds like paradise. No wonder its quality has been so impressive for so long.
Brilliant insight to the workings there at Nat Geo. Thank you. Excited to see the work.
David, thanks.. 90 days seem very reasonable.. looking forward to see the mag once it’ll be out, and more so the book..
Rodolfo, thanks for leaving up the pictures, finally got a chance to see them on a calibrated screen.. I have to fight the urge to lighten them up, as it is your work and your decision..
So, the current essay ‘Olympic Dreams’ (and the comments posted there) has made me dig out a pic I made in February 2006, rescan it and upload it here, large enough to see the details:
http://www.slowemotion.it/pics/macchi-betti.jpg
of course, I know what the pic is about, but that’s not what I’m interested in. I’d be interested in hearing (reading) what you (all, any, some.. hopefully..) think about it, if and what it triggers, not knowing anything about it.
Thanks in advance for playing along :)
to everyone back home, stay safe, may peace prevail
DAH: Thank you so much for your insight and sharing. The idea of involving photographers and/or writers through the whole editorial process from beginning to end is nothing I’ve experienced before – I ‘grew up’ in a totally different publishing world. I broke my back to give one publisher the very best I could over several years but was disrespected in the most unpleasant ways. But, I must not complain because they paid me very well, that work allowed me to be self-funding in my photography for several years afterwards and I learned a great deal. But as you have detailed and Michael said, National Geographic really does sound like some kind of paradise in the publishing world – it’s nice to know such a place exists! I am really looking forward to seeing the work, especially your book – it’s very exciting. Thank you.
Hi eva. guess it’s not hard… don’t want to spoil the fun.
Jenny, Chris Bickford is on the Gulf Coast and on the case right now …
I have toyed with the idea of going but it’s not really in the budget. I’ve been to two spills (burned my clothes after one of them) and spent years working on spill prevention, OCS policy and marine sanctuaries in three different jobs. Once a spill has happened, the battle is already lost to a large extent. It really pisses me off. The long term impacts will be the real story after the satellite trucks are gone. I can’t imagine a big spill in the spartina marshes, too awful to contemplate, and I suspect there are few places in the country where community identity is still so linked to the ecosystem (and simultaneously the oil industry) … huge tragedy unfolding all the way around. Crossing my fingers for successful wellhead containment …
DAVID,
Thanks for the insights and detailed perspective… I kind of guessed your meeting would go smoothly :):):). I am just a bit worried now about the request of “turning you loose”… as if you are not loose normally :):):) The 2/3 weeks to get the last few shots will be great I am sure. When you know you have the story in the bag already, you can just relax, enjoy and sometimes this is when things happen….the unpredicted loose moment :):)..
On my side, just planning a serious day shooting this saturday to progress my new project… there is a fest at the skatepark I go to, with repainting of the bowl, punk/rock concent in the evening and all sorts of skateboading shows with the kids of the area so, assuming the rain does not ruin the event, I should have a good day…we will see…
Cheers,
Eric
Very insightful stuff here David, I absolutely love hearing those sorts of details, workflow, process- the stuff we as photographers try to wrap our minds around each and every day!
Also really look forward to seeing the final project as we have experienced so much of it with you right here on Burn…!
Life has kept me on the go lately and I have missed many great conversations and essays, I look forward to catching up. Rachel and I will leave for Guatemala in July, where we plan to be married on Lake Atitlan. She will take pens, notebooks, and I cameras- we hope to make a story out of this short, but certainly beautiful experience!
Perhaps our paths will cross in Colorado before the trip, I would love to have your insight on a country you know so well! I welcome any other input i might get from fellow Burnians as it has been many years since I last traveled into Guatemala…
Eric E. – Any thoughts, insight?
My very Best to Everyone….Jeremy
all in all nat geo seems pretty photographer friendly.. :ø)
90 days..
3 years some of the photos from croatia are tied up for – client paid for license for that length of time.. magazines have asked for a year, if they have asked at all.
interesting stuff..
SO…
uk election night..
at the risk of it being, as a friend put it,
¨like watching a penalty shoot out for 8 hours, while knowing inside that england will loose again¨- will anyone here be watching the results come in?
here comes the new boss
same as the old boss.
JEREMY,
Good to see you back… Wish I could share some good insights but my stay in Guatemala was very short 3 years ago. I went there for about 7-8 days right at the time of Easter and stayed the whole week in Antigua to take part of the incredible “Semana Santa”. I had seen the processions in Sicily but the ones in Antigua were even more special… Antigua is such a beautiful place with its hitory, the colonial buildings, the cobblestones streets, the volcano at the back…. incredible scenery really that I am sure you will enjoy… Maybe you can get more recent insights from Andrew Sullivan….I know he was there just few months ago… By the way, congrats for the wedding!!!!!
Have fun there!
Eric
“here comes the new boss
same as the old boss.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE
Jeremy: re: Guatemala…
I’ve been there numerous times, last time was in November so about 6 months ago. At that time, one big issue of concern was lake Atitlan’s huge problem with Cyanobacteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria).
If you happen to speak Spanish, check out these articles:
http://www.pormifamiliayporguate.org/atitlan/discusion-atitlan/509-lago-de-atitlan
http://www.sigloxxi.com/nacional.php?id=8925
You may or may not be aware of this already, but since you’re planning to get married at the lake, I thought I should point this out.
Other than that, violence has continued to increase and is as big a problem as ever, but with some common sense you’ll be fine.
ALL
for those who wanted to see more from DAH’s “American Family” opening in Madrid,
check three of my photos on a friend’s blog,
at http://industrias-culturais.blogspot.com/2010/05/american-family-de-david-alan-harvey.html
also with links to two articles/interview on spanish newspapers.
um forte abraço para todos,
Carlos Filipe
:ø) john…
possible hung parliment and electoral reform… finally ..
mates in derry just had the controlled explosion of a suspected car bomb near the polling station..
polling stations close at 10pm country wide, leaving hundreds of voters angry at not being able to vote..
pundits arguing over the exit poll..
ego’s abound.
i’m going to bed..
‘so no one can vote after 10pm even though we’ve been queing since 9pm..’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG6IZtOJcFQ&feature=player_embedded
shambles..
You can vote for Kang or you can vote for Kodos…
Panos
Now for something completely different
http://www.boltingbrassicas.ca/video3.html
Young Tom,
Consider going to Nashville to cover the receding 500 year flood that’s caused over $1B in damages (as reported by CNN), killed 28 people, and destroyed homes, businesses, and national and cultural icons. Anderson Cooper essentially admitted on his show last night that CNN has wrongly ignored the catastrophe in Nashville. “We got distracted by the situation in the gulf, and the bomb threat in New York City”.
I’d be there but am in Calgary and headed for Toronto for work. Not that me being there would do much, besides let me help out and perhaps get in the way of real PJs.
DAH
check your burn email for a message from me
good light, all
a.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/05/06/ac.kenny.chesney.intv.cnn.html
Check out the comment at about the 1:05 mark.
So did mainstream press ignore the story because they were distracted, or becuase they were so caught up in the news cycle trying to one-up each other about the gulf or the terrorist (I mean, once he was caught shouldn’t that story have faded some? Tuesday the paper had a 3 page spread of mundane details of his life, with less than 8 column inches for the flooding disaster)? Maybe because there is no scapegoat, no money-hungry big business having it’s way, no maniacal terrorist with an agenda, no incompentant bureaucrat sitting idly by while the world washes away (or is about to) around the people they are supposed to protect?
And it’s not just Nashville…Clarksville…parts of Kentucky…
ok, stepping down from the soapbox.
cheers,
a.
ERIC,
Thanks for the reply, I really enjoyed your images from Antigua, it was exactly ten years ago since I was there- but it seems like only yesterday. I look forward to exploring the culture and architecture of the city once again on our way to the lake.
CARSTEN,
Good advice, perhaps we will save our swim for El Remate. In turbulent times it is good to tread lightly! Thanks for the links….
-Jeremy
it´s a well-hung parliament in the UK
ffnar
David when is the last time you called a female parliamentarian “well hung” to her face?
TOM: Thanks for your comment. Have you approached anyone for funding? You appear to have the knowledge, background and experience and clear opinions on it as well. I am upset by the impending environmental damage – ALL environmental damage on this stunningly beautiful planet infact, and there’ so much of it…
GENERAL COMMENT: I am having the worst day imaginable. So, here’s some Nat King Cole lyrics for anyone else who may be feeling the same:
Smile though your heart is aching
Smile even though it’s breaking
When there are clouds in the sky, you’ll get by
If you smile through your fear and sorrow
Smile and maybe tomorrow
You’ll see the sun come shining through for you
Full lyrics here:
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/n/nat+king+cole/#share
????
That’s wierd. I just posted a comment but it disappeared. Perhaps I wasn’t meant to post it. It was quite detailed on the oil spill suggesting that those with the knowledge and background pick up the phone to find out if there is funding available for them, if that is what is holding them back.
The second paragraph was for anyone who like me is having the worst day imaginable which prompted me to think of a Nat King Cole song. This I still have open on the computer screen, so here it is:
Smile though your heart is aching
Smile even though it’s breaking
When there are clouds in the sky, you’ll get by
If you smile through your fear and sorrow
Smile and maybe tomorrow
You’ll see the sun come shining through for you
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/n/nat+king+cole/#share
imants
that day is yet to arrive..
yet parliament remains very much entirely, utterly and completely, without dispute or contradiction,
Well-Hung
Eva, hi. leaving my skype rodolforpt
Off out to find some green. The park down by the river maybe, together with Nat King Cole. But before I go:
Boy, does this pressure group know how to lead and inform and keep the pressure turned full on. Just in case anyone is interested there are daily updates on here as well:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/gulf-oil-spill
Panos, you there?
Carlos, bom dia.
43 of 650 seats yet to be decided.. with labour holding 241, tory 288, lib dem 51..
and the green party have one their first ever seat..
now it´s all about who will get into bed with who, to make a majority government..
will the conservatives woo and soften stern ulster unionists?
can labour get liberal democrats in the sack with sweet nothings about election reform?
might david camerons eyes get even closer together?
it´s all in the waiting game now.
Hmmn David B in light of http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=well%20hung who are the main contenders as far as your vision goes
Carlos,
Bom Dia.
I am currently in The Alentejo working on a project. heading back to Uk tomorrow.
Great to be in this beautiful country.
Cheers
ian
David Bowen
Or a minority government. But that’s unlikely.
I need some sleep. I stayed up way too late. First was at Guerilla Filmmakers Pocket Book launch party in London yesterday which was great fun, then home to watch the BBC election extravaganza.
Brain very fuzzy.
hung parliament.. thought it was a gift of a ¨gag¨ imants – hmmmmmmm
paul – either way, it´s got a way to go yet :ø)
One green seat?! Best forget trying to sort the mess before the Queen’s speech date – no matter the cost – a second election would at least give the British electorate the chance to see that both red and blue are equally conservative, and not nearly radical enough! ; )
yellow too…
i think that´s been the main problem jenny – labours 13 years, beginning with blair, have pretty much been a continuation of thatchers monetarist policy, with no where near enough radical behavior to define them..
it´s going to be interesting to see what happens – the first-past-the-post system used in the election is antiquated within europe and hasn´t really worked – so perhaps there will be a coalition government with the minority party joining one of the majors on the back of some kind of deal.. ulster unionists would ask conservatives for high n. ireland funding, and the lib dems are suspected to ask for electoral reform to proportional representation, (which in my view would work to reinvigorate a pretty dire average turnout over the decades).
the trouble with first-past-the-post is that gorden brown and the last government were voted in with only 22% of the popular vote..
hmmmm.
a conservative minority government could be a disaster for the economy, (as well as those on average or low incomes, the unemployed and more), and so i would like to see brown at least around until the recession is well behind us.
being self-employed i would like to see the lib dems gain some power – mainly for their policy of increasing pre tax profit to 10 000 GBP from 5000..
aaaaaanyway.. i´ve been watching too much politics, especially if my jokes are failing badly as imants points out..
time to switch of the bbc
By the way: GREEN is the new RED, didn’t you hear?! It’s too late for anything other than a HIGH-TECH FULL-ON REVOLUTION. And it’s coming whether you like it or not!
Sorry, not ‘you’… the British and American electorates and/or all ‘careless capitalists’! Sorry but the planet comes first in my book. : )
i like, i like…
lib dems are wise to that and want to instigate a program to make the uk the prime supplier of clean energy appliances.. wind farm technology and the like..
UK needs more industry in the north, which has yet to recover fully from the closure of manufacturing / mining industry in the 80´s..
it is already the foremost user of wind farms, for example, yet has to import it´s technology, which seems daft.
lib dems and labour is looking likely..
paradox is that the conservatives actually got the most votes, if not a majority, and stand to be the biggest loosers because of the constitution and due process..
first-past-the-post..
tschk
okay – really leaving politics now..
here is michael kamber on youtube instead
DavidB: Sorry for the rant. I see that we are also, in some ways, in agreement on: the length of term of outmoded monetarist policies and parties with little difference between them.
it wasn´t taken at all as a rant :ø)
lib dems are wise to that and want to instigate a program to make the uk the prime supplier of clean energy appliances…
Third party? Go ahead, throw your vote away!
And don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.
UK Lib Dems: ‘Clean energy ‘appliances’?! Is that kitchen appliances, electric mowers, or?! How about starting with ‘clean energy production and supply’ in hand with a totally new pricing policy for every single item in every shop based on the cost to the environment? That would be the very least any party could do at this point – and not only in the UK.
Anyway, the good news is there is one amazing woman’s voice to be heard in “the Tragedy of the Commons” – in the UK. And I’m sending my love out to the people of Brighton for voting in the first Green Party member who happens to be: a woman! Well done Brighton! Well done Caroline Lucas!
Thankyou for putting “the politics of hope above the politics of fear!”
May that one women’s voice, from that one seat, HAMMER around the walls of Parliament and have the rest of the 600 on the edge of theirs! : )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_economics
Surely this IS an historic day in UK history – albeit overdue by at least 3 decades. ; )
michael – not sure i understand you.. people vote for the party reflecting their choice in policy.. despite a hung parliament, there have been no wasted votes – especially if it leads ultimately to reform of the electoral system.
jenny – wind farms and other industries engaged in supplying clean energy..
and possibly kitchen appliances
DAVIDB: It’s far too little and far too late. But I do like kitchen appliances! I have a soft spot for the egg whisk! ; )
David, sorry, I’m just tired of putting any faith whatsoever in these sham democracies. Here in the States, I wanted to hope that the election of Obama had proved me wrong, but such has not been the case. As has already been mentioned, here’s to the new boss, same as the old boss. Predator drones and offshore drilling included.
So rather than maintain a constant state of being upset about it, I prefer to make jokes. Unfortunately, this lesson has been taught so many times that I no longer have the energy to even make my own jokes. Hence the references to Kodos and Kang, which is pretty much the only decent education Americans are ever likely to get on the subject of our “democracy.”
Kent: Senator Dole, why should people vote for you instead of President
Clinton?
Kang: It makes no difference which one of us you vote for. Either way,
your planet is doomed. DOOMED!
Kent: Well, a refreshingly frank response there from senator Bob Dole.
Kang: Abortions for all.
[crowd boos]
Very well, no abortions for anyone.
[crowd boos]
Hmm… Abortions for some, miniature American flags for
others.
[crowd cheers and waves miniature flags]
Kang: Fooling these Earth voters is easier than expected.
Kodos:
Yes. All they want to hear are bland pleasantries embellished by an occasional saxophone solo or infant kiss. My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
Kang: The politics of failure have failed. We need to make them work
again. Tomorrow, when you are sealed in the voting cubicle, vote
for me, Senator Ka… Bob Dole.
[applause]
Kodos: I am looking forward to an orderly election tomorrow, which will
eliminate the need for a violent blood bath.
[applause]
Kodos: It’s true, we are aliens. But what are you going to do about
it? It’s a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us.
[murmurs]
Man1: He’s right, this is a two-party system.
Man2: Well, I believe I’ll vote for a third-party candidate.
Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away.
[Kang and Kodos laugh out loud]
THANK YOU BURNIANS…for your good energy…it feels really good to have the
support of one million …friends…more to come…
JENNY…kitchen???…
are we moving in the kitchen area :)))
so many changes in the Universe…
I am trying to follow
so many historic days…
come on …
Where is KATIEEEEEEEEE, Street Fighter
JULIETTE is gonna graduate !!!
where is GORDON…”I love my life”
where is JIM…The JIM
where is ANDREAC…”the India traveler”
where is MYGRACIE…the muse
where is WENDY…the sunshine
Where is AUDREY…the French silent power
where is MICHAEL KRITCHER…and HAIK and ABELE and PETE and …and…OURPATRICIA…
and ROSSY …and
where is EMCD, “what are you shooting today???
I am going to the kitchen…”left, right ” wings…anyone:)))
P.S English people…you will prevail…DAVIDB, Beate is calling
OOO
MichaelW: Change comes slowly. But it does come – as illustrated by there finally being a green seat in the UK parliament. I also like to joke at times – it’s so very serious, and upsetting, joking helps. But that one green seat IS very important. There is now a VOICE for ‘the Greens’ – a voice with a very different perspective to the red, blue and yellows.
“It’s one small step for a wo-man, one giant leap forward for Earth” ; )
Was it Jenny having a blue day? With so many comments to read I caught that one because I could feel you when I read the lyrics to the song. Today I was doing my stretches and preparing my muscles to get on the new bike and ride and thought, “How is it my world remains so intact with all this upheaval going on around the world?”
Andrew B, checked in with my daughter in Clarksville after reading your comment on the affected areas in Tennessee. Last time I checked with her the kids were out of school due to the road closures but her house (up away from water supposedly but it doesn’t seem to be so with lots of people nowadays who thought they were out of harm’s way). Waiting on her response. I am due to travel that way in a couple weeks and felt like heading out now due to things happening (you know they are always your kids no matter how old they are). But we are due for a big rain filled few days here as well. Hate traveling in heavy rainstorms.
DAH, I found a profound book, “Living on a Dream, A Marriage Tale” by Patt Blue, published in 1998. Found it in a used book store in Denton, TX (none of your books were there though so most people don’t get rid of yours LOL). Seriously, this book is so amazing. Have you read it? Do you know Patt Blue? She lives in NYC somewhere now I read. It is the telling of her childhood with photos taken by her dad as well as herself, interviews with her mom and siblings. I fell asleep reading it every night for three nights and I just finished it. Awesome. I love the way she incorporates a story with the photos. This is my current favorite style of photo book.
Packing a bag and headed to higher ground. An artist community, Eureka Springs, in northeastern Arkansas.
CIVI: We’re on a trip around the universe – in the kitchen on a spaceship with an egg-whisk.
LEE: It’s very interesting you say you felt me when you read the lyrics of the song. Are you sure that you were not yourself feeling that way this morning or related to that feeling I had of ‘feeling blue’. It’s connected with a personal matter and whenever I think about it, I feel unhappy. But, when I think about what has happened today in UK politics which IS important and historic, I feel ecstatic. I have shared both feelings – and others in this day – and responded to ‘the moment’ and the vibes of those on here. I could have spent the whole day thinking about the personal matter and how best to deal with it as I have for the past week and may do that again tomorrow or spend more time at the protest site. Enjoy Eureka Springs, enjoy the book and the mountains!
Hmmm, looked to me like the conservative/business party picked up 97 seats. Not that it matters. Whichever “party” wins an election only has marginally more importance to what government does as which football team wins a championship. Sad, but all evidence suggests it’s true. Probably better to take your sense of progress where you can find it though.
LEE…keep wandering around…
don’t forget us … we will be waiting…
and where is LASSAL and THOMAS and VIVEK and MIKEB…BOBBY, we need update…
AITKEN…SIDNEY…oime REIMAR, your birthday is coming …
and CATHY…and KATIA…and LISA…and so many…
I am the happiest Civilian in the world…15 baby chickens are out …
sorry for my veggie friends BUT I am really Happy…(meal)…
AKAKY…and KERRY…you are invited…hihiii…
I am bad,I am bad,
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
JENNY…
you use your camera…I use the egg-whisk…
the rest is history…
I am bad…I am bad…:)))
ANTON…we see you…aha:)))
Jenny, Just a familiar feeling not a current one. All feels good here. Love space ship days in the kitchen with egg whips.
Just heard this storm front is going in the same direction I am planning. May have to head West.
BOB BLACK…
i am long overdue in commenting on your essay “Oxen in the Sun” now published in Visura Magazine..my tardiness is only related to waiting for just the right time to write…one writer writing to another is always a bit intimidating since you are a real writer and i just write mostly as explanation…at the same time since you way over credited me on your essay, it does then of course behoove me to take the time and give you an honest appraisal…and this is the first moment since i first viewed the essay about two weeks ago to have a moment to be a lazy afternoon scribe…and i am quite sure you would want me to wait for such a time….
both of us have something quite clearly in common…no, not photography, but something from which our photography sprung….an early childhood disease/affliction which left us both physically and emotionally marked…not a mistake made, but a card dealt…..a hand to play and with no written rules..no guide…no advice…no role model….just empty space and we both had to fill it up in our own ways…i do not want to sound maudlin, but before light there is dark..and of course there is much more to say on this, but if i roll on too long , then i will start to sound like you!!
point is, so much of our work directly spins out of this early trauma…actually everything for both of us…you one way stylistically, me another…but coming from the same wellspring….and with family either literally or figuratively the subject of our work…
your masterwork Oxen is one of the most powerful visual explorations of inner self that i can remember…now, having said that, i also know you…so i wonder if i even know too much to give a totally objective view….but your pictures sequenced the way they are and visually dissecting an emotion take me on a journey that is i must say a little terrifying at times…
your reflections of childhood are definitely darker than mine even though we both display equally outward positive personalities…your pictures reflect an inner sensibility that is in marked contrast from your outward personality whereas i think my pictures pretty much seem the way i am….so we have taken our childhood trauma and reflected it in quite different ways, yet with the same catharsis haven taken place…obviously i am not a shrink, but this seems a fairly basic observation with zero analysis attached to it….
this is NOT to say that you are dark and i am light…many of your works display an ecstasy forthcoming and a joyous resolution…but, i do think you hurt more than do i…and conversely, a lot of my work actually displays a certain sadness or loneliness along with the more obviously ebullient moments…so we both have, one way or another, expressed the gamut of emotions that would most likely accompany early trauma…
ok Bob, a brief review intended to be constructive…please take it in that spirit…
the photographs themselves in Oxen were classic Bob Black… except for one which i found out of place..the one just over half way through of the man in sharp focus, girl out in the front…an interesting enough picture, but did not look like any of the others…i went back and forth trying to figure out what you were trying to tell us, but i either missed the point, or? frankly, i think, unless you have a special reason, that this picture could go out for the book….my other very slight jarring was ironically with i think two or three of the “family pictures”…i know what you were trying to do here, but i was so in the flow of the other work and the switch shook me out of the mood momentarily EXCEPT for last one in color of you with your brothers, which was of course the most poignant of all….the cover is perfect..
so the photography itself, and the sequencing in particular , i would say is almost flawless…just those aforementioned tweaks i might think about making if i were you…could just be rearrangement, rather than elimination….anyway, think about it….
i read your text three times…and it is with the text that i would make the biggest change..and i make this suggestion with great humility because you uphold the high end of writing here on Burn..but, my criticism is not about the writing itself, although you could always cut things down a bit i think…i think you even think this!!
my suggestion would be to take out quite as much explanation about yourself and your motives and your obvious sentiments on reflecting your own life with your camera…that is great conversation here of course, but in your book i would cut that back by about 80%…your most clearly authored photographic essay already does that…no need to keep telling us what we can already see as if we missed it….i know the “why” of it, but think you would serve yourself well to take it down a notch…your writing is absolutely necessary for the context of the work, but i think changing it out just a bit will still be a revelation… i know you do not want to border on narcissism…always the enemy of letting go…
what you want for your book i think is for SOMEONE ELSE to say in the forward ABOUT Bob Black what BB is telling us about himself now….have A.D, Coleman or other respected critic do it
all in all Bob a brilliant piece….authorship at its finest….you are thinking artist….you cross many barriers and take photography out there in the arena of a true “spoken” language ….
most importantly, thank you for being such an important part of our community here on Burn..whatever help i may be in helping you move your trilogy forward, i will do my best…
cheers, david
DAVID A H
Bob is privileged to receive such praise and constructive criticism from you here.
Of course the work is fully deserving of it – a masterpiece really.
I’m sure everybody is equally looking forward to the day Bob’s trilogy is published in book form (a beautiful boxed set perhaps?).
Anyway, I just wanted to say it was good to read your words, and I’m sure they will inspire Bob to add the finesse required take the work to its fullest possibilities.
Cheers,
Justin P
DAVID! :))))))))))))))))))))))))…..
TEARS……
so please excuse me (at school) as i run home, catch my breath and just process….
all i can say is that i haven’t received such a loving and thoughtful and truthful and honest critique of my work from anyone outside of marina….and that means more to me than i can say :)))))))….
u r absolutely right about the text and the images and the family pics too…the idea didnt work except for the cover and the color…and that photograph, the 4 of us (my youngest brother in the backround in a swimming pool, in red bathing suit)…those 2 photographs has always lived inside of me….
and the hurt is real, deep…marina once said that my blindness is the ‘other person’ in my life….like you i am outwardly a very happy and loving person…and photography and writing has always helped me heal that other dark silence and the pain….
but i will write more later tonight…so from the bottom of my heart, i want to thank you not as a photographer/writer but as a dear close friend….!!!!!
I know who i want to write my forward! :)))))))))))….
more later when i get home….really, your honesty and generosity has made me into (now) a blubbering guy :)))))….more later, promise :))
hugs/love
bob
p.s. and burn shall have the 3rd part of that trilogy :)))))….
“We are made of time. We are its feet and its voice.”
—Eduardo Galeano
We are captured,enslaved in that fucking 4th dimension….
any ideas how to escape? anyone?
weeeell! i’ll tell u how..how to escape this trap..
Ancient greeks thought of it already..the answer?
“Ysterofimia”
“posthumous fame” is the answer…
in other words: “bob keep doin it”
*Maudlin= may refer to * Excessively sentimental…
BOBBY…no more tears…only…”blubbers” …ah…where are my academians???
in other words: BOBBY keep it Up…
What Not To Love
posthumous fame??
like his?
“Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'”
Bravo JOHNG…
and it goes like this:
“The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
by Percy Bysshe Shelley
Just finished a 116 page special edition of my magazine, Uiñiq – part one of what should be two. I am exhausted. Want to do nothing but sleep.
Anyone curious can find an explanation of what Uiñiq is here:
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2009/4/23/uiiq-we-nyik-magazine-explained.html
I should go back through, catch up on comments and comment on them, but I am too exhausted. Plus, I have to get a shower and drive to Anchorage for a baby shower. It starts in just over an hour. Guess I will be late.
DAVID :))))
first of all, let me say that i’ll call u tomorrow…it has been a very very intense and crazy week….and it’s been one photoshow after another…and shit, 3 times I was supposed to get together with Alec S for a drink and book hunting (he finally made it to one of my fave books stores i’ve been telling him about) and even tonight was supposed to go to the last Magnum talk and have a drink with him but have just been bushwacked….i wanted to call you tonight, but decided to do it tomorrow when i’m bright eye’d and not so blubbery ;))))
so, above all else THANK YOU so much for the generosity and kindness and thoughtful thoughtful perspective on the Oxen of the Sun. I really take all of that to heart and it means a great great deal to me. As you know, I feel incredible humility, honor and just frankly thankfulness for having been asked by Adriana and Graham to make something for Visura. They were incredibly patient and incredibly loving and supportive and i really loved working with them. Their commitment and trust and faith in me and the work was just incredible. My text, actually, was even in more crazy of shape and Lauren their text editor was incredibly patient and worked her ass off with my written madness. Actually, the text was what bothered marina too and I struggled with it as well. TRUTH BE TOLD, Lauren helped to make the text infinitely better. And i agree with you. I think the problem is that i felt i wanted to ‘explain’ what the story was about, what some of the conceptual ideas were about, i wanted to talk about my blindness and memory and all that other stuff and in the end it just go bloated….i think, in some sense, i did not cut out the narcissism and i think i should have pared it down to just the poetic language, like a long poem, as much of the text is written as both a prose-poem and a kind of verbal memory…actually, i tried to make the text work (including with repetitions and back-forth) the way memory does, so that the text would not only describe but also ‘appear’ or ‘work’ like memory….anyway…i also, suddenly when crazy over the last 2 weeks of writing stuff…but, i absolutely think you are right and i take full responsibility for that…like you, adriana gave me full reign and as you know that is one of my many failings, the length of what i write…i guess it’s like drinking wine ;)))….i’ve actually already started to write something that i’ll be sending you, and it will be much shorter….really, the length of a poem…..but, you are write-right ;)))
as for the pictures, thanks. the sequence i did. still stubborn me, i always sequence edit. Actually some images were cut. Adriana/Graham made some small cuts (which i 100% agreed with) and i cut some more out…and then added 4 more pics ;))…i think i went from (for that story) 250 images and cut down to 75….i could keep keep cutting (i made, for myself, a cut of 10 to see if i’d like it) and the new thing for Burn i’m still playing…so many images, bigger than the visura essay and i’m wrestling that in my head, ’cause as you know, i tend to make long essays not because i think my photography is the cat’s meow (far from it) but it’s a philosophical thing about duration (again related to the act of memory), sometimes i think essays should either be short and precise or go on forever (i love araki’s books for that and i love moriyama saying put everything in or i love boris m’s CaseHistory)…cause i want the act of keep going to be that…and i know viewers get bored, so, i kind of always make these long things for me i guess ’cause i never (at least not often) think of ‘singles’ i think each photo is like the word in a poem or a line in a novel…..and the weird thing is that I thought to remove that picture, the one you did not like with the kazakh girl and russian boy, cause i didn put it in for a simple reason, not ’cause i thought it was a good picture but, are you ready to laugh…..i kept it in there for the same way that in bones or in And our Memories brief as photos or in russian series or portugal series, etc, i always stick some ‘straight forward’ picture cause sometimes i do feel so narcissistic about the pictures, almost like i feel guilty….anyway…..i agree….and yes, lastly, the thing about the pictures from the family album…yes, i think the concept worked better than the reality of those pictures, in other words, i believe u r correct…i sort of wanted to use them as a way to visually link to the readers the story of both my family in taiwan, the reason for all those pictures of asians, as kind of markers….but, well….i think you nailed the thing….
I am just terribly terribly grateful for your support. you are the credit for this too. This entire book idea began with the first epf submission, and those 2 weeks of shooting with only 5 rolls of film….but you’re credited not only because the idea came from that early project i made specifically for road trips but more importantly you have stood beside me as a photographer, mentor and friend these 4 years and as you know i have NOT always been the easiest person in the world and yet your support, especially last year with all the stuff in my life, i owe you credit not only as a professional inspiration but more importantly as a friend….i am here for you and here for Burn above all because i want to give back to you the support, photographically and emotionally, that you have given to me and marina and dima….
i have always tried to give back and help others, especially photographers, not only ’cause i love this art but because my own life, emotionally and spiritually, has been blessed by the love and care of others….if you had not been such a support and such a mentor, Oxen might not have come to the surface….I am incredibly grateful to you for you being you…..and I am incredibly grateful that you’ve taken your time to offer your thoughts….and your wisdom…that means a lot to me….i will show Adriana, she will be so happy :))…
and lastly, i told you long ago we are very very much alike…and lots of that comes from our childhood and like you i am not a dark person, but i do have my demons (god bless marina for putting up with them, and you too ;)) ), but as we once talked about long ago, above all, family means the most to me, even more than my stories and poems and photogrpahs…and you are part of that family, you know that and that is what you continue to give each of us…..you’ve strengthened each of us, readers and writers and photographers and civilians alike, and enlarged our families….
and that is something that i personally, long after i get bored of my own work, will never forget…
thank you david….for everything :))
hugs
bob
JOHN GLADDY…
funny, but i have had Ozymandias burned into the back of my brain since high school….
cheers, david
brother p! :)))))))))….
shit, i dont need fame, i want something simpler: my wife, my son, my brothers/parents, my friends near by (even if near by is now fucking stretched from nc to texas to california to greece to germany and japan and russian and australia and thailand and europe and shit, wherever SpaceCowboy is in the cosmos) and some wine, a book, and just that, ….and a philosopher too in my backyard! ;))))….big hugs :)))
CIVI :)))))
well, i am an emotional guy and do cry easily and do get flubbery, especially in my writing…remember Sidney’s brilliant post a couple of weeks back about my posts here, about emotional out-of-control ;))))…and i’ll keep on keepin on as long as the ticker does :)))
JOHN G! :)))…yea, that’s it…though always preferred bryon and keats i’ve always had a special place for dear forlorn sand-stained Ozy ;)))….that’s the god damn truth in that one, indeed!
ok, running…what a week!
hugs
bob
WTF? DAH! I can’t stay away this long. You all get totally out of control! Bob, honestly your photos are some of my favorites of all time. Your style of this “type” of photography is the best of all I’ve seen presented here or elsewhere.
In Eureka Springs, and the bartender at the quietest bar I have ever, ever been in, made me a margarita special. Wow. 1/2 through the drink and I felt really, really nice. So now that I am back in my room, reading all this, I have so much I would like to share but I have forgotten all of it. Because, after finishing the other 1/2 of the special margarita I ordered a shot of the special tequila, I am glad I am in my room!
Many revelations….and then you remember the tequila!
I am on high enough ground now. Although I could be washed off of this mountain side same as any other.
David what you write about Bob’s piece also brings up the shortcoming of blog style sites……. everything gets boxed into units that isolate text,image advertisement, date time etc from each other. Burn is the same there is text and there is image and “rarely the twain get a chance to meet in unison”. Most guys who put these site templates together have no friggin idea of content and it’s importance, to them it is all about hey this looks right use it!!
I made a pdf of part of Bob’s piece essay “Oxen in the Sun” from Visura combining text and image and things stated to gel, Bob’s personal commentary started to flow and make sense the read the text glance the image pulls things together. Bob sorta said the same thing that on the wwwdot world some things communication wise just don’t make the grade with the audience.
This is a continuation of my thoughts on unfinished essays and the wwwdot world. Just as the last essay here once again is work in progress. I cannot see why it can’t be a completed piece, part of a jigsaw puzzle that can be put together later or viewed as a part of the whole without needing to know what the whole is. In other words this it!, here is my stuff, my head space on what is/isn’t on this journey. Now that this part is done , consume, enjoy, play and critically acclaim …..now I am getting on with the next portion that flows because of this piece. Another essay………………
………. but maybe continuing this way of approaching things for photographers here is just head butting telegraph poles.
what
not
to
love?
xox
Ps David, some My book at at the magnum office ……. as tracking says Your item was delivered at 1:07 PM on May 7, 2010 in NEW YORK, NY 10001. The item was signed for by S CASS.
DAH: Thank you for such a wonderful critique of Bob’s work. It almost made me cry – the way you wrote it and the way you unveiled yourself within it as well. I am also a member of the ‘early childhood trauma club’ – a long-standing member and I don’t know if that is obvious from looking at my work. I hope at some point I will get to hear your thoughts on it, although I am so sensitive about it, I’m almost not sure I could bear to read it. It has been a very hard journey at times but the beauty in the journey and ALL that I’m learning along the way, has been worth every moment of suffering to get to how I feel these days.
PANOS: Thank you so much for that quote. It’s stunning! I will share it: “We are made of time. We are its feet and its voice.” — Eduardo Galeano
CIVI: I noticed yesterday that you had signed off ‘Love, peace and photographs.’ Do you often sign off that way because I had not consciously noticed before. I really, really love it!!!
BOB: Congratulations again! David’s idea of someone writing about you in the forward of the book is an excellent one!
LEE: Mountains and margaritas!!
DAVID/BOB,
This is often because of such special conversations and exchanges that many of us are coming back and back and back to Burn…. Thanks to the two of you for opening up and sharing so much with us… It is a priviledge to read you both…
Cheers,
Eric
BOB: I don’t see you and David as being very alike. Perhaps I don’t know either of you that well but you have BOTH changed over the 4 years I’ve been aware of you – albeit it via the virtual. I have not studied it closely but see it in your communications. You put far less punctuation in your writing for starters! ; ) I would say that DAH appears to have changed more than you in this time though. I hope you are still writing lots of lines of poetry…
JENNY,
LOVE PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY…
SPACECOWBOY,a lost BURNIAN owns the copyrights of that signature…
where are you SPCWB…it’s been a while though…we miss you.
Well,
I only copy and paste… I read,I wait and I listen
“it has been a very hard journey at times but the beauty in the journey and ALL that I’m learning along the way, has been worth every moment of suffering to get to how I feel these days.”
by J.L.WALKER
Can you see ??? I am here because of you …ALL OF YOU…
Can you all see how much you have to offer …
each one of you is Unique,one of a kind,there is noone like
you out there…
few days ago a BURNIAN told me that I am just a cheater that I steal ideas and my ego is bigger than my head…and YES,YES,YES, I am all that. I totally agree…BUT I have an agenda, a purpose, a vision…
and THANK YOU MR.HARVEY and THANK YOU BURNIANS…and DONORS and SPONSORS…and I have to go…
15 chickens are waiting…
We are ALL one and ONE is ALL…red wine on me…etcetera,etcetera…
Jenny..:)
this is how Bob starts his essay in Visura…credit to bob..
“We are made of time. We are its feet and its voice.”
—Eduardo Galeano
http://www.visuramagazine.com/vm/bob-black-the-oxen-of-the-sun
and tequila on LEE…
cause
BURN is the place to BE…
etcetera
and cold beer on PANOS
cause
in BURN there is no place for ANTIOS
etcetera
Einstein realized that gravity bends time…
The Aliens created antigravity and can fly through space with no engines..
but the greeks took it on step further…they discovered the “key” to immortality…
not through silly religions like christianity etc…
but through ART…
and yellow water on FROSTFROG
cause
he gave birth to Uiñiq
etcetera
I am the happiest civilian of the world…
PHOTOPHILOSOPHERS …I LOVE YOU ALL…you
Please,let’s try to listen to our inner voices…
I will be back
for our greek contingency
:ø)
http://www.prospekt.it/reportage.php?id=160
JENNY…
of course Bob and i are nothing alike..nor are any of us….i was only referring to the wellspring from which our photography comes and simply setting up a context for review….
by the way, those who are close to me unfortunately think i am the same old David i always was…too bad…i was hoping for improvement
cheers david
IMANTS…
you make a very good point…the chockablock separation of text and photography on the net is very annoying at best…i am quite sure that you could take many pieces here and meld into an interesting graphic presentation….that is a whole art into itself….want the job??
cheers, david
LEE GUTHRIE…
you are a trip!! laughing…well, i hope this morning finds you in the same good spirit you were in last night…and , if not, then a couple of aspirin and a good run around the block and lots and lots of water might help…
cheers, david
DAH, tequila sunrise. Have the water, not so sure I will be running around the block. UGG. I don’t see how people drink like this every weekend.
But I am going for coffee here in a bit and ready to shoot. Myself.
@ALL:
been a while since ive been by. feels like ive got a little something to say about and to everybody…
this sticks on my forehead:
bob blind… and childhood trauma… and now a painter, writer, photographer… DAH as he is, definitely getting better and better… both giving back… all talking about it
if i were to be as heavy as what bears on my mind at this time, i’d be seriously obese.
but we all can go through the mud and can plod on…
before long it dries up, flakes away and sets us free.
DAH, BTW there is nothing wrong with the old David.
the book ideas …….. http://www.etrouko.com.au/im.htm
GRACIE…
nice to see you pop in from time to time….and yes surely all of us have our burdens…photography does seem to be cathartic by nature and several universities in Europe offer phototherapy grad degree programs..maybe in the U.S. too.. i do not know…in any case, everyone needs an “outlet”…could be skydiving , could be golf, could be whatever allows one to move out….of course i never thought about any of this when i picked up a camera…it just happened…as you say, “the mud dries up and flakes away”
cheers, david
DAH
Thankyou for your wonderful comments about Bobs “Oxen”
I’ve been going back to it lately. My limited attention span won’t allow me to digest it all at once, and your comments are helpful. I’m unsure if the different pieces of the text are specific to individual photos, if so it is difficult to view. I’m having trouble slowing down enough to let myself savour it properly.
Jenny, I suspect many, or perhaps even most of us are driven by events from our past.
In my own work as a family portrait photographer, my goal is to create photographs that represent the ideal of love and harmony that I think all families aspire to. In my personal “happy snaps” (thankyou Imants), I want to capture the joy and beauty of my life. Life through a rose-coloured filter to be sure. Your comments Jenny, Bob, and David, have made me realize something that I may have known all along, but not really acknowledged. Perhaps I photograph through my rose-coloured filter in order to supress, or to fill in the big black hole left by my own childhood traumas and dysfunctional family life. An antidote for the poison as opposed to a purge.
GORDON…
ahhhh…good…this awareness alone will push you to do something now unique…without giving up anything you have already done, already believe, nor interfere at all with your current philosophy….it will only strengthen this work…all i ever ask of any photographer is to get down with whatever they really feel and believe…who cares whether it is dark or light? so many “adults”, lose the natural creativity of their childhood because they must…first forced to draw within the lines, then must obey laws, conform to a business environment, follow the rules of society..fine…i am not suggesting anarchy…but i do suggest tapping in on what you really really believe…when given creative freedom, something everyone says they want, most panic…suddenly many realize they are really not sure what they think..scares the hell out of them..most are so used to being told what to do, that freedom can become a rope for them to hang themselves…or, so they feel…standing there naked is a fear..but, once you can break the barrier and stand tall in the wind, then you will have achieved something few have…and this can happen at any point in life…now is as good a time as any…so great..love love that rose colored filter…that is you…i have read you long enough to know this is true…now, just imagine a slight differentiation in the way you do your portraits…take the picture they want..this is your business…keep it..but now think of what you might do as a personal project even with the same people..after you have done what they want and expect and are paying you for….i will bet you can have a lot of fun thinking about it….only you can tell me what you would do, but i will guarantee that when it hits you , it will be right between the eyes…your eyes…
cheers, david
David,
Seeking some direction. Some quick advice. I put most of my energies these days into the newspaper, shooting for myself whenever possible, as time allows, and the product of that resides mainly on this site…
http://fedoraphoto.blogspot.com/
On a professional level would you encourage any of us to seek true editorial publication over the ease of self publishing? In other words should I be spending my saturday mornings drafting query letters and developing long term projects rather than simply posting my latest shoot online.
Will a photographer’s blog gain the same respect, viewership from magazine editors as the mainstay “website” we have all come to represent ourselves with in recent years?
Would love to hear any thoughts on this. Our time in this craft/industry is so valuable, I think the first step to becoming the photographers, writers we intend to be is knowing where to drive/direct one’s own time, energy….
Jeremy
BURNIANS…Don’t forget the mamas…happy mamas day
“The mother-child relationship is paradoxical and, in a sense, tragic. It requires the most intense love on the mother’s side, yet this very love must help the child grow away from the mother, and to become fully independent.”
Erich Fromm (German born American social Philosopher and Psychoanalyst, 1900-1980)
We are sending all our good energy to (MAMA SOCRATES)MRS.HARVEY…and to all the mamas…
our childhood traumas are here to stay …BUT let’s make peace with our demons…
as once DAH wrote …
oime…I am a father and a mother of 15 baby chickens…
MYGRACIE…where is the ice-cream ??? we love you
KATIE FONSECA…THE MOTHER…we love you…
you are so many out there
SPEACHLESS…THANK YOU
JEREMY,
your blog looks quite pro…
Question: Is JERRY AND MICHAEL COURVOISIER …from the same familia…just asking:)))
DAH
Yes, I hear you.
Thankyou for the encouragement. I may emerge yet.
Civi
My mom on her eightieth birthday in Jan. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/121471888
I’m off now to hang my 12th annual Tribute to Mothers and Daughters show at a local hotel lobby.
What not to love indeed!
DAVID :)))
been trying to call for 1 hr…ur mail box is full….will try again later (im home)…but maybe those cats really got your attention :)))))
PANOS :)))))))…thanks brother…u r the best…Galeano too ;)))
JENNY :)))…THANKS….yes, in many ways i have changed alot through this place, after meeting david…and in some ways i’m the same…i hope i am better, calmer, more loving, more aware…as u know, we always grow…awareness is always developing and i hope love always deepens…2009 was an intensive year that culminated in my brother’s heart attack…but the last couple of years have been intense, but so much goodness is happening to black family in last 8 months and my only hope is that when david (and the rest of y’all) and I finally get together again, he’ll see the difference :)))…last 2 times were together is was around so many people (nyc, loft and then last year at CONTACT)…and the better judges of who i am are marina, marc, frank, mike, those who see me often…but all of us change, i hope always for the better :)))
IMANTS :))))..tahnks mate..yes, i think that’s right…your pdf rocks :)))…and my fingers are crossed for your book…you know how much i love your accordian beauties….hoping what i give david and company next will also be a chaos of light and love and language ;)))
ERIC :)))))…thanks….all we can do is try and care :))))
ok, gotta run to by my mom-wife-artist partner something special….
CALL UR MOM’S TOMORROW
gotta fly
hugs
bob
GORDON :)))
yes, some of the text does go with certain pictures :)))…as imants pointed out, i couldn’t figure out how to do that specifically without making it look too designery…in book form it makes more sense…then there are chunks….
anyway….
i gotta another surprise for Burn coming after May….hoping that will show the whole idea of language and light..
and i think stronger pictures too :)))
GRACE :)))))
i miss your wisdom and your poetry…..that is it…it all flakes away and we’re left with, if we are lucky, that green stem of a flower’d fuse that fires us all :))))
ok, hugs
bob
Bob,
You’re certainly firing on all cylinders right now! Great to see and hear my friend.
Meant to write to you about the success of Oxen, but just swamped: working on a commission in the Fens, got an exhibition on right now with a slide show and ‘in conversation’ event next weekend, print sales etc….
Really looking forward to your part three….
Justin
CIVILIAN, and ALL.
Thank you..and thanks for checkin’ in on it. As for your question- I do believe there is a connection there- others on Burn should be able to confirm that.
As for the blog venue, Paul O’Sullivan, Miki Johnson, Yumi Goto, Ed Kashi and myself put together a project earlier this year with a number of selected photographers titled IMPACT:An Online Exhibition. The link is here….a few Burnians involved as you will see.
http://blog.livebooks.com/2010/02/impact-online-photo-gallery-exhibition/
The idea was to draw viewers, colleagues and editors to the blog sites in an effort to highlight some important topics through visual journalism and get the word out. RESOLVE blog hosted the venue for IMPACT.
The project really did put the “Photographer’s blog” in the spotlight for a few days and after all DAH’s own Raodtrips was a blog venue and here we all are a few years later- Thanks to so many!
Best, Jeremy
Thanks for the link, Jeremy. You have given me more homework to do.
CIVILIAN…
Jerry is Mike’s father…
cheers, david
BOB…
yea, my voice mail is full, my email is full…the only way to find me these days is to walk right up to my front porch…that works…crashing now
JEREMY…
i just read your question and took a few minutes to have a look at your site and blog….it is past midnight in my zone, so i am going to sleep…your question is important…so, let me get to it either over morning coffee, or simply when i can get a few minutes to give it some serious thought…IF you think i forgot, please remind me…do you still live in Durango?? if so, i may be there very soon to see my mother and family….as you well know, when i am with them i generally do not break away…however, if i am there for more than two days, perhaps we can meet…
cheers, david
Marcus Bleasdale: The Kimbangist Symphony Orchestra
http://magazine.viiphoto.com/story/show/157
Gordon L – Your mom looks beautiful!
Nice shot for this day.
May she have many more Mothers Days ahead of her.
“Children learn to smile from their parents.”
Shinichi Suzuki (Japanese violinist and teacher who introduced millions of children to his “Suzuki Method”, 1898-1998)
JERRY and MIKE…I see…the connection
that means that my 15 chickens will smile like me… ai,ai,aia….
KATIEEEE…MY GRACIE…
come on …GORDON’S amazing MAMA is here…
oime…
What Not To LOVE !!!
Thank you EVA…I like the VII photographers…
nice work… maybe we can collaborate or something…
BURNVII or VII a la BURN or La BURN vie …etcetera…
“Relax and give the play a chance to strut its stuff—relax, stop wondering what it is all ‘about’—like many strange and familiar things, Life included, this play isn’t ‘about,’ it simply is. . . . Don’t try to enjoy it, let it try to enjoy you. DON’T TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT, LET IT TRY TO UNDERSTAND YOU.”
E.E.CUMMINGS
HAPPY…HAPPY MAMAS and PAPAS …
DAH: I see. Actually it was Bob who wrote that he believes the two of you are very, very alike. I have not seen much likeness in your work – other than it being zen. But there are others who are also zen and your two spirit’s area clearly very, very different. : )
GORDON: When we have fully purged, the images may also turn out ‘rose-tinted’ – it all depends. The ‘blues’ of my week are unconnected to childhood trauma, long ago dealt with. But personal history can drive you to do all sorts of things. In my case, it expresses itself in a need to aim for perfection and to try to achieve something remarkable in my lifetime. That’s the aim anyway. : )
JEREMY: Many thanks for the link!
EVA: I also like that work by Marcus Bleasdale very much – not only for the colour but because it’s such a positive story coming out of DRC and this, to my mind, is fantastic! His fashion sequence in terms of the actual photographs and sequence, is more amazing to my way of thinking (just one image I’d remove – a very cheeky thing to say I know but there, this is a photography forum).
There’s a stunning afternoon light here and a breeze coming off the canal. I had a great night last night at a party and was only invited because they thought I was performing with a group of firedancers. It’s a long story and I won’t bore you it with here save to say that I ended up doing something I’ve never done before… wonder what you’re thinking here… it was standing on a board and punting across the smooth surface of a lake into the inky waters and darkness of night. Only the lights on the palm trees and the lights of the party to see the river bank by…
What not to love?!
PANOS: Well it was a superb choice by Bob then because it matches the zen power of the images as well as the title. I can’t read the text that accompanies the work because to be completely honest (which nobody probably much likes) I’ve long ago been put off by the volume of it. I would however, be happy to meditate for hours in front of one of his images. They are both centering and help you focus on our inevitable death and the ephemeral nature of life in a very helpful way. Well that is my interpretation of them not having read the text! : )
Jenny, haven’t read the text either (not all, some bits and pieces only), death is something that has not crossed my mind at all looking at Bob’s photographs.. (what I do not like at all are the writings done with the mouse..)..
Hey Panos, I was looking for some music to use with a slideshow of one of my works in progress and came across this band which I kept seeing referred to as kind of a proto-Rage Against the Machine, or at least a major influence on them. Bought one of their albums and can see it’s probably true. Anyway, you probably already know this, but just in case…
DAH,
I think taking the time to play with kittens is sometimes just as important in coming up with big ideas as anything else. Really good for your mind and soul.
Valery
Michael W, must be my age showing. After opening your link to the maggot band I immediately closed it when I saw the name. ICK. LOL.
Jenny, quite a vision your hinting caused.
From the Dalai Lama (from his Facebook page): It is not difficult to forgive destruction in the past, caused by ignorance. Today, we have access to more information. It is essential that we re-examine ethically what we have inherited, what we are responsible for, and what we will pass on to coming generations. This is clearly a pivotal generation. Global communication is possible, yet confrontations take place more often than meaningful dialogues for peace.
Mother’s Day in Eureka Springs. Yesterday was heavily influenced by the consumption of the special tequila; however I met so many wonderful folks. Due to the economy ES is not its usual rowdy, hard to navigate town it is during full tourist season. Was wonderful for walking and shooting. Found the shooting to be very selective. Moving so slow all day then went for a massage to fix a foot issue. Oh yeah, and the photographer I met who talked ninety miles a minute.
Today is breakfast at a restaurant I discovered yesterday, another massage and a concert at 2 by John Two-Hawks, an Indian Flutist. Listening to his CD now. Timing was perfect yesterday to meet him. Just at 1:55 I stopped in front of a small store and read a notice he was doing a “meet and greet” there at 2. Very nice man.
I love the stories of how folks come to live here. ES has an amazing history; it began when people discovered the “healing powers” of the natural hot springs. So many people came early on that the springs are still not open to the public due to the damage caused. (Of course, I am talking about the structured town history of ES, not the actual original settlers.) I like to send prayers up for their recovery.
Happy Mother’s Day to all. This one spent alone, first in decades, has proved to be a weekend to remember. Off for breakfast!
Lee, Maggot Brain was first recorded in 1971. Whaddaya want? Perry Como?
I chose that video because the intro sounds kinda like Rage Against the Machine. But start at about the 3:21 mark and you’ll hear one of the best guitar solos ever. The video’s nothing to look at. Let it play in the background and watch a slideshow. Hard to imagine a sequence of images that wouldn’t play well to that song, title notwithstanding.
David,
Thank you very much, I look forward to your thoughts. I am still in Durango, I spend my days in Ignacio working for the Tribe but could easily break away for a cafe at the Steaming Bean or an evening cocktail…would very much enjoy talking life even if just for a few minutes. I am just now enjoying a coffee here my self!
Best, Jeremy
Michael… that was a great link!
Godspeed You Black Emperor – Rockets Fall on Rocket Falls (it works amazingly with the video too)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV83U4CDAx4
Mogwai – Kids Will Be Skeletons
By 1968, because of a dispute with Revilot, the record company that owned the name “The Parliaments”, the ensemble began playing under the name Funkadelic.
—————————————————-
Michael W. absofuckinglutely…
The Parliaments,Funkadelic.George Clinton… history!!!…they influenced everybody!!!…
amazing!,dope! thanks for bringing it up.
The Black Keys are back!
Thanks Thodoris, that’s the second time I’ve come across Godspeed you black emperor here. Interesting band. Black Keys sound good. I was familiar with Parliament in the eighties and George Clinton in the nineties, but totally forgot Funkadelic’s early seventies sound. I’m surprised at how well it holds up. That was the future. One of them anyway.
On photography, I’m kinda bummed this weekend. My recent advice to Emily Shevenock was actually how I approach these thing. So now I’m looking at an important shoot I did the other day, thinking about what good photography looks like, realizing that my stuff from that shoot doesn’t look like what’s universally acknowledged as good photography, then questioning whether I’m just so unique that I’m creating a whole new category of good photography or if it doesn’t look like good photography because it’s not. Not such a tough question, really. Ah well, at least I still see possibilities in the approach. Repetez! Learning is good. Learning is good. Learning is good…
ohh…just a note…
ROSSY says hello…
ROSSY …we miss you and we wish you …good energy…!!!
I LOVE you ALLLLLLLLLL!!!
Please, be healthy…and enjoy every breath you take…
I am going to relax my brain cells…
I will be back
No, not Perry Como either. I will look again and skip ahead as you suggest.
Hey, found this great link about the origin of Mother’s Day. It was all about peace!
http://www.chiff.com/a/mothers-day-origins.htm
As I’ve mentioned before, football (soccer) is something much more than a pastime here in Cyprus…
People are getting out of their way to show their support for their team… quite often things get a bit out of hand… it’s common to hear on the news about clashes of fans of opposing teams inside the stadiums, and sometimes even outside of them…
Well, today was one of those special days, when even people like me, who consciously avoid knowing anything about football (or any other organized sport) inescapably learn which team won the BIG game… in this instance the national championship…
I’m not a street or a news photographer, but I’ve being thinking for quite some time of picking my camera up and trying to make a few pictures showing the (VERY LOUD) displays of (I guess) happiness that take place in the streets…
One of the most striking things for me (again, an outsider—so, it might not seem as weird to others as it does to me) is the sheer number of women involved, both in the weekly games and in the (again, VERY LOUD) celebrations like the one that took place tonight…
As a side note for those following the link below… yes, those guys *are* barbecuing in the back of that pickup track while partaking in the huge line of cars parading across town…
http://www.tzalavras.com/Omonia_May-10-10/index.html
LEE: Well I agree with HH the Dalai Lama and am happy that I finally got to see him when I was in Dharamsala during the 50 years in Exile ‘celebrations’. Thanks for selecting out these words:
“It is ESSENTIAL that we re-examine ETHICALLY what we have inherited, what we are RESPONSIBLE for, and what we will pass on to COMING GENERATIONS. THIS IS CLEARLY A PIVOTAL GENERATION. Global communication is possible, yet confrontations take place more often than MEANINGFUL DIALOGUES FOR PEACE.”
JEREMY…ALL
ok back and ready to answer your question of last night….well the first part of my answer is that i do not have an answer…that is, i can only speculate on the best way to go….we are all in a brave new world and i must use all of my natural instincts and wherewithal along with everyone else…my experience helps a little, but i am relying on my nose into the wind way more than experience…
first off, i think you have to do it all…each photographer will have to analyze his/her best positioning for either heavy emphasis on a web presence or pushing forward a career in the mainstream media and traditional outlets..if i were in your position i would keep up the good work you are doing on your website, self publish, and simultaneously pursue traditional magazine assignments, gallery sales and the best branded international book publishers…all of this goes hand in hand…none of it is mutually exclusive…
to survive today any photographer is going to have to know way more than how to make a reasonably good photograph….photographers are going to have to think like producers…with the old content producer/provider paradigm shifted upside down, it will behoove any young photographer to get a hold intellectually and literally of the whole process…being a content provider alone is not enough…i can tell you even my own career was changed noticeably when i made sure i was well educated in all of the disciplines that surrounded me: writing, typography, graphic design, research, production, distribution etc etc…
i cared deeply about my own work of course…but i could see early on that having a broad knowledge would serve my work well..i.e. make it actually “happen”…..so there are two key points: (1) do the work (2) make sure the work is manifested in the best possible way..
so i am definitely a dreamer type…but, also a results oriented person as well….pretty lucky match of two roads that do not always meet
i might have been a bit unique in my generation for this broader view and it served me well, but it is of absolute necessity in your generation…
so do it all…
by the way, keep your hand in here on Burn for we will become i think a real outlet…i will soon be giving assignments here for original work produced for Burn…the iPad beckons…we do not have much money so i will start i think with one iconic photographer and two emerging photographers from the photographers i know here and from all the talent that i have seen from running the EPF for three years…
so we will keep the EPF which is enough funding to at least get one person started and then start an assignment process to get others going as well…this will all happen simultaneous with the Burn 01 hard copy limited edition…
so, i will be looking for thinking photographers…of any and all styles….so, go back to my fourth paragraph and read again….only two key points…..figure out a way to make both happen…..your way…
cheers, david
My 12th annual Mothers and Daughters portrait exhibit today.
http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/124381348
Jeremy – Perhaps you have stated this somewhere already and I have missed it, but what tribe do you work for? And what do you do for them?
My first job out of college was to put out a newspaper for my wife’s tribe, the White Mountain Apache. That led to a three-part series in National Geographic which I photographed, wrote and did some ghost writing for as well.
Brian Frank: Thanks for the heads-up on the new Black Keys release – love those guys! New Band of Horses comes out the same day (May 18).
Also back: The National with “High Violet”, on the 11th. Beautiful music…
you make a very good point…the chockablock separation of text and photography on the net is very annoying at best…i am quite sure that you could take many pieces here and meld into an interesting graphic presentation….that is a whole art into itself….want the job??
Yea happy to do something………….. right now other than finishing etrouko III and ward 017, I am about to sit down with a programmer and see what I can do to come up with a better website for myself. I have stuff scattered over the four winds and lots cannot be easily viewed . Anything of note I will pass on. maybe it is time to split screens etc
Justin, Driving down to Kansas City to check them out, then they are going to be in my home town of Des Moines. Can’t wait to see them.
Frostfrog
Jeremy’s bio says he’s working as a PJ for the Southern Ute tribe
FWIW, I’m a card carrying member of the Wendat Hurons up here in Quebec. I’m pretty diluted, though,
as we were unable to get status for my son making my generation the last in the line.
Writings done with the mouse? I’m not sure what you mean. It IS interesting that I see death in Bob’s work. That might have more to do with how I see him as a person – that the passion in his way of seeing is connected with a fear of death but then, a fear of dying is a common fear. Every moment is both life and death when you think of it so life and death is actually in every photograph although not necessarily expressed in a way that is clearly visible uless we are conscious of it. What do you think?
PS What tribe do you work for? That has to be one of the best questions I’ve ever heard! I’d like to pose it to prime ministers and presidents around the world. ; ) No disrespect to ‘indigenous tribes’ intended.
DAH: Thank you for making me realise that being a content provider is not enough and that I must begin work on that manifestation side asap. I’ve put it off for much too long. Coincidentally, manifestation means “protest” in French and increasingly, I feel the need to do that as well. : )
“so there are two key points: (1) do the work (2) make sure the work is manifested in the best possible way..”
FOCUS BURNIANS…FOCUS…
P.S THODORIS,Viva Panathinaikos…thanks for the photos…
JENNY,
thanks for pointing out …a BURNING key…
“I must begin work on that manifestation side asap.”
That’s what I call …BURNING ACTION
Thanks, mtomalty. I spent one week at the northern tip of Quebec four years ago. I enjoyed it.
Gordon Lafleur – Your announcement must have come up while I was typing my question to Jeremy.
Congratulations!
Civi…
Thanks for looking…
The name of the team is Omonia though… (I know… their symbol is the same as Panathinaikos, and I did omit mentioning it in my post…)
Anyway…
Good morning…
Ditto, Jenny. Brilliant question. “What tribe do you work for?” I too would like to ask many a politician that question. If only they could get past the tribe and think of the HERD!
DAH
Burn specific assignments is a fiercely exciting prospect.
I was awake late into the night pondering web versus traditional print output, stills, video, audio and so on and so on. Should I make a drive to secure straight forward, by the numbers assignment photography as I’ve done in the past, or whether to simply throw caution to the wind and just go ALL OUT doing my own thing and making as much noise about it as possible across a range of media.
Well, quite frankly, I’ve decided to say “FUCK IT” to the old ways and try and concentrate on the screen with occasional self publishing just so I can hold some of my work in my hands from time to time.
I’m back on the street after a long absence and beginning to get to grips with some project ideas. The haze is clearing.
Not sure how many of us are quite ready to “break the barrier and stand tall in the wind” (naked) though. Perhaps one day we burnians can gather and do just that. Somewhere warm.
hmm – today
converting .flv to fcp files.. extracting audio.. sourcing clips of white noise.. an fm radio being tuned.. vintage bbc news footage of the dawn of EM culture.. criminal justice bill.. learning final cut (again) and trying to blend music, video and my photographs to make something more accessible than the photos themselves.
i´m trying to make an MM piece with my last project which is part movie trailer for the book, part stand-alone nut-shell sized morsel which transfers some of the feeling of what it is like to shoot /dance / suffer / enjoy a music venue.
first stage which i found useful was to script it – using a postcard technique i learn´t from a shane meadows workshop in film making years ago.. approaching it as a film and organizing ´scene´ changes by shuffling about postcards, each with the individual content / photos scribbled on..
once the workflow is learn´t it´s going to be as simple / complicated as dark room practice to make bite sized project overviews or in depth narratives..
MTV generation exhibition approached from the side of what the end user wants to see rather than what i want to show, whereas a book and gallery show will be much more about what i want to show..
PAUL,
I already see you standing tall(naked) in the wind…
yeap, BURNIANS …you have an advantage…
YOU CAN BURN THE BARRIERS !!!
DAVIDB,
use the blender wisely…I believe in you
THODORIS,
either way…you have captured the …moment :)))
VIVA!!!
Jenny, the writings on Bob’s pictures (opening pic, the 3rd etc.) to me look like they were made in photoshop, writing with the mouse.. or how is that called in English.. let me check.. yep, mouse, mouse device.. I wish the writings were handwritten and scanned..
About life and death: we ‘re all dying from the monment on we’re conceived, that’s one of the very few justices out in this world! Fear of death? No, not really, fear of suffering, yes, more likely.. but thinking about life and death looking at photographs, I don’t think I do that. More cherishing just the moment captured.. well, depends also in what mood I’m in.. DAH is right, it’s not enough only to have the work done, so gotta take it further.. off to the darkroom..
Thodoris, why would you drive on the wrong side of the road?? What you’ve captured is quite common over here too, soccer being THE MOST important thing here.. but I’ve never seen people BBQ-ing in the back of a truck so far..
Gordon, prints up look good!
DB,
Glad to hear the book project has progresed far enough to be generating multimedia, slideshow presentations, soundfiles etc. Watch out though I found it a really timeconsumming business trying get it all together, I was using iphoto, garageband etc man what a nightmare there are so many limitations. Maybe with final cut it could work a whole lot easier. The bonus being once you have learnt the story telling skills using multimedia it is another string to your bow as DAH has pointed out above. Would love to see the outcome.
Meanwhile I have been foiled by the Volcano again, this time stuck in Portugal, Lisbon airport shutdown with the Pope due in tomorrow to add to the chaos. Using the time to edit and re edit a project I am working on, but missing the family back home. Earliest flight out on Thursday eve.
Time for another Pasteis de Nata http://www.pasteisdebelem.pt/en.html
I
EVA…VIVA…
hmmm…I do BBQ-ing in my bedroom…
ok…I’ll be back
and IAN…may the spirits of travel be with you…
your plate is …Priceless :)))
Enjoy
Aitken
I sympathize with your getting stuck. And the Pope? Maybe god can pause the volcanic ashness to allow him through. Ha!
I giggle at what a traveller at Heathrow said during the first airspace shutdown on a radio voxpop, “I don’t approve of this volcano”. Mad.
DB
Just commented on your blog. The beautiful, thought provoking post about your dad.
The urge. The urge. Hitting the streets. Back later.
Paul,
I am subscribing the “fuck it” camp and want to get out there using all available media etc, but it is a steep learning curve. Commercial commissions for me have dropped right off, so need to get out there quick to start filling the coffers and creative inspiration. The project i am working on here in Portugal is self funded, so really trying to make the budget stretch but also need to find an outlet for the work. I have already entered it into the AOP awards, we will see what happens, also approached nat geo with the story, initially they were keen then dropped it like a hot potatoe, it seems there is another photog who is on the same story (but different approach and skills) who has worked with nat geo before. Thats life hey……
Best of luck with your endeavours, it would be interesting to catch up, if I make it down to london. Meanwhile you could look at the photoshelter blog, they have a downloadable booklet on using social media for photography.
Cheers
ian
cheers paul
ian
mac bundled software is really limited – adobe premier or final cut is much, much better and much more involved..
i´ve dedicated 5 full days to getting the piece done.. day one – today – has mostly been about gathering the resources, lumping them together in a single file for ease and converting if needs be to the right format.
looking forward to tomorrow as then there will be more layering and seeing if what i want to do will work
.. and – i´ve started a facebook group linked to the blog i´ve been keeping to update progress if anyone is interested..
trying to tie in a cohesive online presence, linking everything to everything else, until i have the money to employ a proff web guru to do it better..
http://www.facebook.com/pages/david-bowen-photography/353392929747
civi
it´s gonna be a smooth smoothy .. the complicated bit for me will be in intro and out-tro.. the middle bit with photos will be relatively simple.. it is setting the scene and leaving people `high`that i need to achieve which will be the challenge.
want to make something with purpose rather than a gimmicky attempt – keeping it simple..
thanks
d
DAH,
Very strong points as we enter an ever evolving field and hard work is at the heart of it. Thank you for your thoughts and comments!
FROSTFROG,
White Mountain Apache, is that in Arizona? It sounds like a great experience that ultimately opened some doors as well!
I came on with the Southern Ute Indian Tribe in 2008, as photographer for their newspaper (The Southern Ute Drum) and Public Relations Dept. – the timing couldn’t have been better and the opportunities to learn and grow are endless. And as DAH just stated, the role of photographer is often intermingled with writing, publishing, editing, and most importantly I feel is that we see each project to its end every two weeks and on to the next edition. Hard work manifested…speaking of which I gotta get out the door here!
Cheers, Jeremy
Regarding multimedia skills, I don’t mean to whine or be a naysayer, I have a good grounding in all the necessary skills and the software to produce just about any kind of multimedia piece as well. But it’s not easy, it’s not fast and it’s probably not cheap. I think I’ve pointed out before the number of people you find in the credits for even the simplest newscast or PBS show. Realistically, I think it will have to evolve as more of a collaborative enterprise. People coming together to help each other with certain technical aspects for particular projects. And actually, this has already evolved. Multimedia is not new. It’s only new to still photographers. Traditionally, it has gone by the name “video.” Just to take an example most are familiar with, read about how Vincent Laforet produced those Canon videos. He called up a bunch of friends to create a crew.
That said, if anyone is open to starting perhaps a loose formation of possible collaborators for multimedia projects, I’ll always consider helping out. I’d also be happy to advise on equipment needs for specific types of projects. That’s something I do professionally and have gotten fairly good at specing out needs. There’s a lot to miss and people tend to find that out the hard way.
There’s a lot to miss and people tend to find that out the hard way………depends if you want to come from the left or right field..then there is jack in the box style
Ian, I just got off the bus and red the PhotoShelter blog thingy on it. Printed it last night.
If in London, holler. If I’m up your way at any point, I’ll do the same.
DB, just linked on FB.
Getting back on a bus now.
Later,
Paulyman.
DAH
Well, nobody likes to be rejected, and having a photo essay rejected has to sting a little, but to have an essay rejected when no essay was ever submitted (???) is as confusing as it is disappointing. I just sent you an email about this. (Or is your Burn email box still full?).
David Lachapelle
Rize – Stripper Dance clip
— Rize – Stripper Dance clip David Lachapelle with soundtrack “Fix up look sharp” from Dizzee Rascal
I’m a day late, but Happy Mother’s day to all who are mothers here on Burn! :)
hmmm…! they say if you got troubles..if you feeling down..just dance…Athens needs a new dance..they tried it in south central LA and it worked…
watch carefully…and dance …
SIDNEY…
Anton and i were just looking at your submitted photograph yesterday or day before with a significant text..now, maybe it came in through private email or something instead of the usual route, but it was definitely in our mix of material we were considering for Burn…
cheers, david
DB,
Can’t wait to see it.
The biggest mistake I made with CYPHER I think was to not make a youtube piece to promote it.
Best of luck,
Charles
David,
I have sent e-mail to you.
Please check it up.
Thank you,
Kyunghee
KYUNGHEE LEE…
i have your books, your email etc…i have responded….
cheers, david
MICHAEL WEBSTER…
we should meet if i come to new york this week…50/50 chance at this point…in any case, i definitely want to talk to you about your skills…thanks for reminding me…
cheers, david
Sure David. Just let me know when it’s convenient.
On the Multi media front I’ve started a web site http://www.wildlifetales.net for wildlife and environmentally photography. I would be interested in whether people thought it any good or a pile of shite. If anyone has anything they think would be suitable please get in touch with me.
andrew h
i think your site is looking good..
wordpress is a great tool to learn.. very easy and so many templates from blogs to entire websites..
if you wanted to put perminant tabs at the top – and about page.. workshops.. or stories.. – that can be easy as well.
michael webster
no whineing as i read you.. i think in part you are bang on.
the idea would be to have a dedicated exhibition printer,web guru, MM producer, musician to supply sound.. damn even an accountant would be a benefit, however until there are fund for me to pay a proper fee for what is proper work i need to learn for myself.
besides which i would be alot more useful in guiding an MM creator if i know the possibilities better.
i’ve always been self taught.. photography.. music.. anything i have started for the love of i have started by myself and that has it’s benefits.
perhaps my piece will not be as good as if it were by collaboration with a MM person being directed yet i would not feel comfortable lumping so much work onto someone without promise of money .. just as i have been reluctant to help someone with particularly specific photographic needs without some kind of money.
exceptions abound of course – yet i know what i want to achieve here and would also like to get my head around the software again.. it’s changed significantly since i last used it.
learning HTML and building my site was a bind, yet loads of fringe benefits are there.. same with printing.. doing my own accounts.. i’m hopeing to gain the same through video software and it’s in no way my intention to belittle or make the work seem easy.
just one of those things i need to do myself this time and then when i’m back on my feet with funds i can offer honest collaboration without feeling i am laying too many specific ideas on someone.
charles
:ø)
thats it really.. in thinking of building momentum i’m considering everything i can.. feed back from publishers and the like has been very, very quiet.. i know i am doing things in the wrong order in places, but i need to get what i do have out there now.. limited folio and a dummy book will not be ready before mid summer, so i have to do what i can until then to fil in gaps.. work in the order i have to rather than the idea order for now.
with your books – never to late to get some buzz going about them surely?
michael is good with MM and you’re in the much stronger possition of actually having a product to sell.. thats a way of for me.
d
DAVID,
I am sure this must have happened to you many times when working your own projects, but this saturday, it just seemed to have come together maybe for the first time for my skating project… I had a special time for just a couple of hours….I think I was “in the zone” as you would describe it… Just went to this skating event…was late, tired, in a rush, but got there eventually and then, it just turned into something special… I ended up with a group of punk skaters, large crowd, loud music, crazy moves….The “good” news is that I have made a few powerful new shots, different, closer, more intense…the “not so good” news is that most of the other photographs I took before seem weak now… kind of feels as if I need to start it all over and build from these more powerful shots…. How often did this happen to you? Often I am sure…. Happened to me with Lords as well… I guess this is part of the journey when working on a longer term project… You like some of your initial shots, and then one day, something happen and you kind of realize that you can do much better than these first shots… now, if you can go on from there and stay at the level of these new shots then maybe we are talking but the issue is that you are back to the beginning… anyway, this is cool :):)… Not sure where this will go but I am excited as I have a sense of what this could become…assuming I could be in the zone more often than 2 hours in few months :):):)..
Had fun anyway….Will keep you posted…
Cheers,
Eric
ERIC…
yes, this has happened to me many times, if not all the time…there is the first wave of excitement and passion, then quiet, then the zone….if this is a new beginning for you , then so be it…it took those first pictures to get warmed up…they were useful and you cannot warm up without actually shooting…but, take this new level as the base….you will quickly forget the old ones…
good for you….
cheers, david
Eric, I know exactly how you feel. Here’s an intro to a new project I’ve been tinkering with for a wee while now.
I have a ways to go and previous gatherings just didn’t produce anything terribly significant except the urge to do better. This was from one mornings work providing me with enough material to at least make a recruitment video.
I too feel like I need to start all over again. Hopefully when I do I’ll have some hd video gear as well.
Looking forward to seeing the skaters. My guys don’t have wheels. Kinda like skating without skateboards, in fact.
Good hunting.
IAN “Commercial commissions for me have dropped right off”
I’m sorry to hear that but know where you are coming from. Editorial is pretty tough now too…
I did a quick count the other day and discovered that I have not been paid for 15 finished articles in the last 18 months. All due to magazines falling over…. It certainly makes a dent in the bank balance!
Another editor has just told me that the publisher has pulled the pin on her mag too, just got my fingers crossed that I’ll get paid for the last article of mine they published. Time to look for different avenues I think….
Cheers :-)
ross.. thats bad news..
7 mags folded on me oweing money with a couple of years.. throws out the balance badly..
good luck, yet i know freelancers are the last consideration in arbitration..
:ø/
paul – do you know sticky?
nottingham based n one of the best..
i can hook you up http://www.stickyparkour.com
he is busy doing 1000 mils of parkour for charity right now.. after though.. or during if you want to join jim?
very easy going dude.. easy to photograph and plan with..
d
join him that is.. my typeing is off today.
David B; Thanks for that, but still smiling! Fruitpicking is looking better every day though! :-)
the “not so good” news is that most of the other photographs I took before seem weak now… kind of feels as if I need to start it all over and build from these more powerful shots…. How often did this happen to you?
……… after the euphoria come the fall, Those previous shots usually serve a greater place in essays than we sometimes give them. They have a positive role, they help set the foundations of the essay and usually have a greater narrative bend to them than the wiz bang shots. Most important they help to temper and pace the essay/story, too many “spectacular type” of shots keep the audience in one realm, wow wow wow which quickly becomes same same same, ……..and ends with “what is this all about?”
Ross …….are you starting to feel like the Mariana fruit bats……….endangered and shot for no reason!
Imants; Definately endangered and have been told that I am a bit batty, so yea probably… That was an interesting reply to Erics post, more food for thought…
Eric,
Imants is right. You never know how those early shots might come into play in the “end.” Just keep plugging away and don’t concern yourself too much at this point with what’s strong or weak.
But that said, sometimes it’s just a matter of finding your way in a foreign subject matter and what initially seemed exotic no longer is so you can actually go deeper with it.
Best,
CP
David Bowen
Thanks for that. I don’t know him but know of him. I read about his escapades. Once I have the rest of the gear I need in place, I’ll come back to you on it.
Cheers.
Eric, perhaps the reason you were in the zone and making exciting shots was because the project had been swirling around in your subconscious for a while resolving itself and making brain connections that facilitated your hitting your stride on the Saturday. Mental digestion. Sleeping on it, etc..
In the books etrouko I, I deliberately put a very ordinary image opposite a visually interesting yet conceptually weak image and it created really put a nice hiccup to the flow(most of the books have only one image to a page spread).
A common misconception that a lot still photographers have is that every shot should be great in an essay. Guys like John Gladdy do few essays and know that placing singles(which are meant to be viewed as a single) into an essay would just dilute its impact.
David Alan Harvey
Not sure I mentioned that I have licensed a Moby composition to accompany the images I submitted via PhotoShelter lightbox. Not sure what the procedure is to send that in. I guess there’s much to be sorted first should it be approved for publication here.
Good night from London.
should be ,,,,,,, In the books etrouko I, I deliberately put a very ordinary image opposite a visually interesting yet conceptually weak image and this created a nice hiccup to the flow of the book
.. the mistake in literacy just shows if you get the flow wrong it becomes a mess as do essays
I’ve been playing with the idea of trying to get meetings with editors, and making a trip to New York. Iowa caucus season is just around the corner, and I’d love to get my name and work in front of editors to see if I can drum up some work.
I’ve never done this before, so any information would be helpful and greatly appreciated. Contact information, ideas on where to crash, general nuggets of wisdom would all be incredible. If I can get this trip off the ground, I’d love to meet some of you NY Burnians for a beer.
Thanks.
David Bowen. I’m the same way. Learn all kinds of crap when I need to. Not any kind of technical genius, more a victim of short attention span. It gets tiresome after awhile though. And always a danger of being Jack of all trades, master of none.
My comment wasn’t directed at you, or anybody in particular. I just note that a lot of people have little understanding of what’s involved in producing multimedia. It requires expertise in many different professions, none of which are trivial. And almost everyone underestimates time and money costs by at least a factor of five. I think it’s best for most people who are interested to start out with whatever consumer video camera they can get their hands on — kids’, parents’, neighbor’s, whatever — and produce a few things with IMovie or whatever the PC equivalent may be. Then one can make a realistic decision about whether to get the pro camera, MacPro, Final Cut Studio, After Effects, hard drives, grip equipment, Apple Cinema Display, ntsc (or I gues PAL as the case may be) monitor, and so on (and on, and on…)
I bought a decent video camera a few years ago thinking I could do some interesting stuff and make some money on the side shooting weddings. After two weddings I realized that I would rather dig ditches, wash dishes, do just about anything rather than be a wedding videographer. I enjoyed doing several personal projects but quickly became aware of all the expensive things I needed to become truly professional and all the time I would have to put into learning and using After Effects and various expensive plug-ins. Then playa dust killed my camera and I pretty much forgot about it outside of my day job until I got the Canon 5D. Now I’ve been kind of bummed with myself that I’ve had no interest in producing video since I got the camera, but I do have a notoriously short attention span, so I’m sure that wheel will eventually turn. And I am prepared. I plan on incorporating some video into my current project, but haven’t seriously thought it out yet.
Anyway, back to the topic I started on. When it comes to collaborating on multimedia projects, there can be alternatives to paying people with cash. In the video/audio world, there’s a lot of informal payment in kind. A lot of people help each other out on their projects. Someone who’s good at editing might help someone who needs a video editing then be helped by someone good at audio who later gets help on her website by someone good with html or whatever. That’s pretty much the way it’s got to be if you want to produce something professional that’s the least bit complicated.
Paul,
not sure if it is the same guy but I read about a bloke in the guardian who is doing parkour from john o’groats to lands end and training out of some hideaway in west Wales.
cheers
I
Michael W..
i cant find your email…please email me (innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com) .I wanna ask you something off the record.
big hug
ARA GULER Exhibition in athens opens tomorrow…
“Istanbul” by Ara Güler at the Benaki Museum
The Benaki Museum in Athens, Greece presents an exhibition titled “Istanbul” by photographer Ara Güler from 12 May to 25 July. Güler, who is particularly well-loved by the Greeks, is considered to be the most popular photographer of Istanbul. The style and atmosphere of his photographs alludes to the work of Greek photographer Kostas Balafas. His humanist gaze has recorded everyday events, focusing on simple people and using the city of Istanbul as his backdrop.
The exhibition comprises about 100 prints on the topic of Istanbul in the 1960s and 1970s, selected especially for the Benaki Museum exhibition.
The exhibition will be accompanied by Güler’s book, Istanbul, which will be published in a Greek translation by Olkos Publications. It will include texts by Nobel prize-winning novelist Orhan Pamuk, who carries out an imaginary discussion with the photographer’s oeuvre.
Don’t miss this interesting exhibition by Ara Güler at the Benaki Museum in Athens, Greece.
Start date: 12 May 2010
End date: 25 Jul 2010
Venue:
New Benaki Museum
138 Pireos Avenue, Athens
Nearest Metro : Kerameikos, Line 3
Telephone: +30 2103453111
Opening Hours: Wen, Thu, Sun: 10:00 – 18:00
Fri, Sat: 10:00 – 22:00
Tickets:
3€
Brian, get a thick skin, when you bear your sole to busy people they can be pretty brutal.
just a warning, stick with it though because every once in a while you you will get a pleasant surprise and a busy art buyer/editor will offer a carrot and a spark of encouragement or even a commission.
good luck
i
I’m afraid I am being too negative. Enough talk about what is difficult or can’t be done. Need to spend some time on what can be done as well. I agree that there are great opportunities.
Michael Webster,
Thank you for revealing your disconnect with video. Folks who have jumped into video want us all to beleive that one more sword in the scabbard is the answer to future sucess. Well it’s not that simple. Some may be ready to cast their lot to video, audio and still… an interesting and complex world. It may be the future or perhaps not, we’re got a long way to go before “new media” shakes out. The market wants us to replace television without the overhead. It’s time for us to give them a solution!
Do what you do best, learn what interests you and hope it makes you a living. Chase your dreams not market trends.
Good luck. My dog is lying on the floor, slapping his tail. I know what he wants. I’m headed around the lake.
How to say NO! I spotted this as the last comment from David on twitter and it came to be in a flash that this is exactly what I also have not learned. But since this realisation has arrived too late and matters have gone beyond the point of no return, help is all that will help right now.
DAH: Clearly you are completely snowed under. I hope Burnians will agree with me that closing Closing Time for a few days at least, or perhaps a week, would be beneficial. Thank you for all you are doing. You are amazing. : )
PAUL…
if you intend to do a slideshow with music, that needs to be a part of the package we see…we cannot build out the mm for you….or am i not understanding what it is you are telling me? good that you have the license for sure…
JENNY…
i would say that i cannot get any more busy…however, it is all fascinating stuff….easy to say no to bad stuff…still too much good stuff is still too much…today i did manage to cut out two big things i was going to do ….and the whole rest of this month i will be at home….computer work yes, but looking at the dunes….just cannot miss may by the sea…..
cheers, david
What not to love?! So much to learn!
DAH: Good evening on the other side of the world! Why tell us that you are completely snowed under, don’t know how to say ‘no’ and continue to keep Closing Time open? There’s over 2,500 comments on this one thread alone!
DAH: The whole of the rest of the month at home?! You mean a full 2 weeks! That’s funny – I guess you are constantly on the move. Yes, it feels good to always be busy.
DAH: One thing about friends and family you mentioned. It seems to me that we become the person they are used to having around every time we are together. We are always ‘our old selves’ in their presence. But that is not to say that we are the same person when we are with new friends or, that we have not changed. It’s difficult to show our changed selves to those who have known us the longest. It doesn’t feel ‘comfortable’ – its that comfort factor we’re used to and its what makes us feel at home. Anyway, that’s my theory – must stop taking up space on here! Wishing you a very productive day and supremely envious of you by the sea!
BRIAN: Go for it! Get on to those editors!!!
MICHAEL: Not much to gain from being negative!
Perhaps Jenny, if by negative you mean realistic and if you count wisdom among those things which are not to be gained.
I see monks in orange robes walking along the steet accepting alms… what a lesson in acceptance and letting go of ego!
Now, finally, back to work! ; )
MICHAEL: I mean whatever YOU want ‘Perhaps I must stop being negative’ to mean. You were the one that wrote it. I was just reflecting it back at you. Perhaps it was just your internal critic? And the thing that actually is not true? Anyway, it’s your deal.
: ) xxxxxxxx
Did I phrase that right? I don’t think so. Kinda hard to tell. Poor writing, eh.
What I meant to say is that perhaps one gains wisdom by pursuing realism. Not quite sure what one gains by being positive? Wealth, power, happiness? Many people think wisdom is overrated. Empirical evidence suggests they might be right.
Coming out of the clouds though, when considering whether or not to drop $10,000 on a low-end video setup which will probably not be enough, reality-based wisdom might have some monetary value as well.
ahhhh…a friend emailed me this song…i need to share it with burn!
Wilco – California Stars
Michael/Jenny;
I think that wisdom and dreaming with a little side dressing of realism is a pretty good combination :-)
(if there would be such a thing as a “favorite” song this would be it)
The Flaming Lips – Five stop mother superior rain
I was born the day they shot jfk
The way you look at me sucks me down the sidewalk
Somebody please tell this machine Im not a machine
My hands are in the air
And thats where they always are
Youre fucked if you do, and youre fucked if you dont
Five stop mother superior rain
I was born the day they shot john lennons brain
And all my smiles are gettin in the hate generations way
Tell em Im gonna go out, shoot somebody in the mouth
First thing tomorrow
My hands are in the air
And thats where they always are
Youre fucked if you do, and youre fucked if you dont
Five stop mother superior rain
I was born the day they shot a hole in the jesus egg
Now the rain, its all so random
What does free will have to do with it at all?
And you cant cry, but
It really dont matter, yend up cryin anyway.
My hands are in the air
And thats where they always are
Youre fucked if you do, and youre fucked if you dont
Five stop mother superior rain
JENNY..
you wrote:
“DAH: Good evening on the other side of the world! Why tell us that you are completely snowed under, don’t know how to say ‘no’ and continue to keep Closing Time open? There’s over 2,500 comments on this one thread alone!”
sorry, do not understand the question….you used the term “snowed under”..twice…i simply said busy….what does that have to do with keeping comments open on this dialogue?? you lost me on that one…
i think we went to 5,000 comments once on a dialogue post…in any case new dialogue coming soonest….
cheers, david
6am in grecolandia…cant sleep..sleep? time for breakfast for some…
but this girl…she “dont use jelly” “she uses vaseline”
hey ALL –
a little new story….
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/05/11/the-meeting-koi/
in Tokyo now, weather bad today – but has been good so far… My lens broke down yesterday but got repaired in Ginza today in 30mins flat by a Japanese super expert, including focus realignment and at no cost… smileys all along…
So how’s everyone here at BURN?
…just kidding :-D I’m around here 24/7… ;-)
cheers,
anton
Understood, David. Thank you. I’ll re-submit when ready. EPF obviously top priority for now your end. I really hope all of us attention hungry burnians will not keep you from “May by the sea”. Don’t let us.
I can’t wait to be by the sea in August, in Ireland. And some serious swimming.
I can hear the gulls in my mind. Calling me.
BUZZ
5,530 comments
THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS !!!
ANTON,
you are not standing outside,nope…
I see you INside…yeap, you are inside…
Sorry for the broken lenses …How an we help???
I can always send you some eggs…I have fresh eggs…
UPS or Japan Express…something…
KEEP IT UP BURNIANS…don’t forget… the details and the devil…:)))
michael w
coolcool – if it´s okay i will hit you up, maybe on thursday, and show you what i have been up to?
working alongside video tutorials will be enough to see if i can get what i want to get – and then showing you might bring up some ways of fine tuning, if you have the time..
it would certainly be foolish to not take an opportunity to get some feedback from you on this – so hopefully you´d be up for that.
i´m working with very little video.. mostly grabbing audio from news casts.. couple of clips and the rest is photogiraffes.
:ø)
Dyslexic me…
or as we call it …typo:)))
*How can we help???
Collaboration…DB aaaaand MW…
together we can prevail…
after all we are all ONE…
Come on, Revolution = R+ EVOLUTION
I will go now…BUT I will be back…
hihiii…you are free to shoot…!!!
DAH: Why did I write that? Because I read your twitter comment re. being busy, about you not knowing how to say ‘no’ and related to it because I have too much to handle on here at the moment I’m finding it difficult. That number of comments seems a lot to respond to – and I have been adding to it! Sorry.
I am also not so used to entering competitions (or one that I care quite so much about) and somehow with my work being looked at by a number of people at the same time, I feel a bit uncomfortable. I know there’s no way around this and it is a competition which is different to an assignment but it made me think of what I liked about what you said about NatGeo – explaining the photographs with you there, sort of ‘handing it over’. When we feel our work is ‘us’, it’s being seen without us there, feels wierd.
Hello Burn!
Sweden & Jefferson Airplane:
http://bjartebjartebjarte.blogspot.com/2010/05/this.html
Bjarte
Since we’re posting some videos and songs, please take a look at the very elegant and sumptuously sexy Natalie Merchant being a street photographer in her clever song and video, Carnival.
http://music.aol.com/video/carnival/natalie-merchant/1102805
The song has a big engine and in this live performance it purrs along with delicious intensity with her in sensually hypnotic form. Her voice is spell binding here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqZ7HaE5KWU
Any other good songs out there about photography?
JENNY…
ok, yes i see …well, i usually do not respond to a comment unless someone either asks a question of me specifically or shares a link where they want a quick review….thanks for clarifying…
BJARTE…
while looking at Jefferson Airplane, i saw the Parr quote…good one
So how’s everyone here at BURN?
———————————–
how u think we are? we are waiting for Anton’s latest photos god damn it…
hanging tight in our couches…ready for the revolution to be Televized (hopefully by fox channel)
David Bowen, sure, I’d be happy to take a look at what you’re doing. Just let me know. I’m mweb202 on Skype. Though I guess I should emphasize that I’m not putting myself out there as any kind of creative video expert, other than in regards to needs analysis and purchasing.
What a weekend in Eureka. Left yesterday morning under threatening skies and had tornados hopping all around last night until 10 p.m. Trashed a lot of Oklahoma though. Poor Oklahoma.
The shooting isn’t going like I hoped. Light has been ghastly most days; had a few moments in neat areas like a popular local coffee bar in ES. And the room I stayed in at the old hotel and the hallways, etc. But none of those relate to the subject I am seeking. I am seeing evidence of people pulling together in these tight economic times but nothing comes across in the form of a photo. Kind of frustrated with it so maybe I put it away for a few days. Body Language of Love has produced a few photos but not like I hoped.
Here is my problem with Body Language of Love. Any suggestions would be great. I could go up on a roof or deck in town and shoot people in secret with the long lens (which I always feel really odd about and don’t do as a rule); I’ve taken photos of two couples I stayed with for a few days each and that produced some photos but it was an odd thing to approach them with. So now I think I have to re-think how to capture this subject that my subjects and I are comfortable with. Sigh.
Another gloomy day for light! Dang it. Otherwise I am very good. Everyone sounds good here. Not sure about your revolution Panos. Don’t know how to take some of your comments.
Lee, are people actually pulling together? I get the impression it’s just the opposite, especially out in the red states. Of course my view is terribly constricted, but outside of natural disasters, I’m not seeing a lot of evidence to challenge it, much as I would like to.
Maybe if you stop trying to see the story you expect or want to see and try to see the story that’s actually there? The one the people and place are trying to tell? I don’t mean that in any harsh kinda way. I’m going through the same thing at the moment so have given a lot of thought along those lines.
i´m getting literally snowed under..
yesterday was hailed under.
the day before yesterday was sunbathing on balcony.
big fat chunky lumps of snow.. looking through the window is like looking at a badly tuned in tv.
:ø)
Lee..ha ha..no worries…im not expecting Oklahoma to join any revolutions any time soon…
Tornado Alley…tornados and Fox keep them busy…couch is full..
big hug
Well the fancy gear days are over for image makers and image movers……….. join the great unwashed masses http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/05/sonys-nex-mirrorless-cameras-are-the-smallest-in-the-world/ ………. me, me sony, an ipad and a dog named Gu travelling over the country side
No more I got a Leica shcmeika ……… sonny I am the picture show man
Sony’s NEX Mirrorless 4/3 Cameras Are the Smallest in the World
—————————————————————
ahhhh great news..thank u Imants..;)
and u can even change lenses? and do panorama? and built HDR..?
Ahhh nephew…you just made my day!!!!!!!!!!!
THe best part will be we don’t have to spend a lifetime learning final cuts, after effects ….we just put on our after burners and snap away and then slide into dat moovin pitcha stuff.
….we can all do the Mad TV stuff, an oldie but a goodie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs
…..bed early start.
DAH
I did some copying and pasting of the quotes I liked best when Parr was here at burn answering questions, the one I recently twittered was probably my favourite. Which reminds me I really enjoyed his visit and reading all his answers. Any plans in getting other photographers to do the same thing here at burn in the future?
For instance, it would be amazing to have Robert Frank come here and answer questions. I got my copy of “Paris” some days ago and read an interesting interview at the end of the book about his journeys to Paris and America and his comparsions of America vs Europe. And I also remember Erica’s scribblings of him being interviewed… (which reminds me I should read through that again!)
A quote from him (Wikipedia):
“When people look at my pictures I want them to feel the way they do when they want to read a line of a poem twice.” Robert Frank, LIFE (26 November 1951), p. 21
Bjarte
( http://twitter.com/Frenetisk )
Michael, yes they are. I hear it in their voices, their coming back to family and circles of friends. Changing ways of living, on the familial level and in their businesses. We have many manufactured needs. People are beginning to see those.
BTW, heard a new acronym for FEAR this weekend: Forget Everything After Reading. The media plays like a reality show now instead of sharing what is happening in the world. The headlines are very inflammatory, I think.
Your input on stop looking for the story and see the story that is there is very true. This is what I am dealing with too. I know I’m looking too hard so have stepped back. This is very familiar. I had forgotten one element in the initial inspiration for this series: audio. Because audio will play with this subject. The light is hideous–left over storm system. Day spent with what I have and will hopefully see some thread. Really haven’t seen them all together yet. Thanks for your input Michael.
LEE: I’m not too keen on the title: Body Language of Love. The body seems superfluous, except perhaps in the practise itself! ; ) Love can be expressed in so many different ways. I prefer ‘Language of Love’ although it may have been done before. I guess you need to put your mind in the place of a lover and go wherever lovers go, at the times that they go, and get pretty intimate with them as well! I met a wonderful couple in the park a few days ago – they had a beautiful story. From different countries, different continents, spoke different languages and met on the road. They were just sitting there entwined with each other smiling. I just had to ask them their story because they looked so in love.
Michael, yes they are. I hear it in their voices, their coming back to family and circles of friends. Changing ways of living, on the familial level and in their businesses. We have many manufactured needs. People are beginning to see those.
Great. I look forward to seeing what you do. Don’t know about the light after a tornado type storm, but I love the light before one, when the pressure drops and the sky turns yellow and there’s a moment of ominous calm. I have one photo that I thought captured it. I’ll try to make a link to it this evening.
Turns out I actually had it handy.
BJARTE…
yes, we have more iconic photographer interviews coming as well as chats with top editors, art directors, and curators…we are simply swamped right now with EPF and Burn01 edition, but back to biz with these interviews and features soonest…
cheers, david
Hey Jenny, it is more than just language of love in that it is what is displayed by body language. But then again that is so subjective to our own interpretation. I hear you.
Michael, that light I know. You are right; it comes briefly and then you better get inside! Gorgeous shot. Still so flat today for light; editing is all I can do with photos today. And supposedly all week!
DAH
Sounds good!
Is it possible to pre-order the Burn01 edition?
DAVID,
guess what?! today i saw Pauliana. and also saw Pope Benedict XVI. we were all together this afternoon in Lisbon. i was taking photos among the crowd, and there she was. working, she said.
i gave her your message (literally, cause i handed her a print-out), as you asked. and she promised to stop by and write something.
RODOLFO,
prazer em ver-te, por aqui.
IAN,
hope you found a plane to take you back home. as for pastéis de Belém, you’re right. but have you tried pastéis de cerveja (beer), just across the street? “Mmm… pastéis de cerveja” (with Homer Simpson voice).
um forte abraço para todos,
Carlos Filipe
the evening came and gone in Grecolandia…
IPAD= I Post After Dark
FEAR= For Evolution And Revolution
damdarramdamm…opa…damdarradam…
BURN1st …is coming soon !!!
I better go rest my …BURNED brain cells…cause I start seeing 3 tall trees standing …
hmmm…is that symbolic …MICHAEL…:)))
BJARTE is back…and CARLOS…and ABELE, VALERY,ANTONYR.Z…and…I miss so many of you…
where is JIMMY??? The JIM…
and OURPATRICIA.REIMAR,ANDREAG,
and EMCD,HAIK,
and …KATIE (she is in LA)…and OK,OK,OK…I am going…
enough…I hear you…
P.S I know…you are shooting…ROSSY…I know…
LOVE and etcetera,etcete……………….
Carlos,
still in lisbon area, staying in Estoril looking out at the atlantic……..enjoying increadable portuguese hospitality, watching sunsets untill thursday pm then hopefully flight will go.
Ian
Lee, Jenny, I must have missed the link, Language of Love?, you have my attention.
BJARTE…
not yet…we are still making a myriad of decisions…..
ALL…
incidentally, i said last week that we would be contacting photographers this week whose work we would want for BURN01….that has not happened and will not happen this week….we are still wrestling with how many pages, how many photographers etc etc…so, this is not the time to feel left out….
I dont feel left out…..I just feel like I live in a parralel universe
I guess Anton is still out there “koi whispering”……………..
or tickling, trout style….
Mathew
Yes, I am also getting that feeling lately. Mind you, with the latest Hadron collider experiments, and quantum physics stuff, it ain’t all that far fetched.
Mathew
Just checked out your site, love your people stuff.
Say hi to fellow Hobarthian Tero Sade if you happen to know him. I did a workshop with him a year or two ago.
Carlos Filipe, Ian,
Glad to know I’m not the only one obsessed with the pastéis de Belém. Now, those pastéis de cerveja I have to try urgently.
Missing Lisbon …
http://venividiphoto.blogspot.com/2010/05/saudade.html
DAH: Please can you tell me how the M9 compares with the M6 and whether you used it for your Rio work – or direct me to where you’ve discussed it. I’ve been using whatever I can lay my hands on and afford these past 2 years and am curious.
LEE: Happy you heard me. : )
CIVI: It can all be symbolic or all nonsense if you don’t believe in symbolism I suppose! Yes, where ARE they?!
MATTHEW: Don’t we all live in a parallel universe or is it a yellow submarine?! I just read that that Beatles song may NOT have made it to number 1 in the States at the time it was released due to the ‘bigger than Jesus controversy’! It was written with a thought for children, and to keep everyone happy:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zz32_we-all-live-in-a-yellow-submarine_creation
ALL: Something is definately happening to me and I’m not sure if it’s connected with Burn magazine. I seem to be thinking of the place I was born, of the UK, of things English, the countryside, feeling something that could be homesickness? Perhaps I’ve been away too long – 4 years IS too long – but I’m only 1/3 of the way around the globe… this feeling could be disaster.
GORDON/LEE/PANOS/ALL: It’s the title of a project. Well the title is actually Body Language of Love. I’m really hungry at this moment, didn’t eat anything yet so must go out. But I just spotted a couple of comments above which seem relevant – related to going out into the world with an open mind, not closing ourselves off with a title or anything else. We can’t help but re-create the world we see in our images – how each of us perceives through our own ‘lens of seeing and believing’ – but perhaps we can attempt to train our minds to be more open? Not to close ourselves off from a more ‘comprehensive’ reality?
DAH: How high are the waves today and are the kittens behaving themselves?! Thanks for including me by the way. Sending you a : )
http://www.1billionhungry.org
http://www.1billionhungry.org/rodolfor/
http://www.1billionhungry.org/Frenetisk/
Civi…….I am here :-)
my best to you
Gordon, Body Language of Love is a project I am seeking on this road trip. However, I am having some difficulties capturing (the method) the photos I want. I see them on the street a lot but for some reason I am having issues intruding with my camera. Jenny likes just Language of Love but the idea behind this work is the messages we send with body language. Will work it out I’m sure. The lack of light here has also dampened the project. Going biking today. Decided to let fresh air and no sunshine change my attitude.
JENNY….
i have discussed several times here in Dialogue the M9….while i was working with it in Rio…i was working in Rio from january thru february , so you might have to go back and see comments during that time frame…not really to be compared with the M6 any more than any digi can be compared with any film camera…yes of course there is the Leica feel…..but, it can be compared to the M8, and it is far superior, mostly because of the full sized sensor….i like the M9 a lot…but on a day to day basis, i am having so much fun with the GF1…with me all the time and that little thing just makes you want to shoot…much easier/faster than anything including the M9….for one tenth of the price and for 90% of what i do, the GF1 is it…
cheers, david
MATHEW NEWTON..
you have surfaced!! always nice to hear from you….any trips planned to the U.S., Europe? i had to cancel my trip to Perth (long long trip for me) and just could not make it down while i was in Thailand…in any case, i do hope our paths cross sometime soon….
cheers, david
http://www.1billionhungry.org/thomasbregulla/
David, regarding the GF-1, so you’re okay with the small sensor? (90 percent of the time?) I seem to recall you writing about the advantages of the full size sensor a long time ago, but not exactly what you wrote. (a better search engine that would find info in comments would be nice, maybe that’s on the to-do list somewhere? Long list, I know…)
http://www.1billionhungry.org/innerspacecowpanos/
Hi all.
Old 2008 news: 5 Reasons to Shoot Film
2) A SPECIFIC “LOOK”…
To me this is interesting…avoids all post-production to get specific film look…as he puts it… “Films have personality”. I believe they do. so does processing film…
“so does processing film…” – how it’s processed…
Forgot the link…
hereitis
This is not to say that I’m off the digital… just curious…
MICHAEL WEBSTER
I just bought an Olympus e-p2 with a panasonic 20 f/1.7… cannot be happier, with that lens you do not have anymore the perception you are working with a smaller sensor, especially at wider apertures…
DAH, delighted to see you like the GF1. I’m becoming obsessed with the Olympus E-P2 which I’ll be picking up very soon. I like it over the GF1 for it’s viewfinder and manual video. And it’ll take my Nikkor primes.
Looking forward very much to putting down the Nikons for a while to rest my back and shoulders which are completely knackered at this point.
Morning ALL…
DAH –
Today is a good day to talk – am available most all day – feel free to contact me anytime or I will try you in a few hours…
Civi – you don’t even want to know where I’ve been – but thanks for missing me!
BTW –
just received my copy of Mao Ishikawa, Life in Philly – you can order one through Zen Foto Gallery of Tokyo here: http://www.zen-foto.jp/LIP_ZF_web_En.htm It’s good crazy work circa 1986 Philadelphia taken through the lens of an outsider from Japan who somehow became an insider fast fast and made this document.
A review here: http://www.eyecurious.com/review-mao-ishikawa-life-in-philly/
DAH: I’ll check back on Dialogue. Thanks a lot! The M6 is the only Leica I ever used – from that I switched to compacts (G10 at the moment). Interesting. Many thanks.
JENNY,
a)“Don’t you realize that the sea is the home of water? All water is off on a journey unless it’s in the sea, and it’s homesick, and bound to make its way home someday”
Zora Neale Hurston (American folklorist and Writer, 1903-1960)
you will be back…But for now…please Enjoy your journey
b)”CIVI: It can all be symbolic or all nonsense if you don’t believe in symbolism I suppose! Yes, where ARE they?! ”
I was referring to MICHEAL WEBSTER vision…tall trees standing…:)))
http://www.mwebphoto.com/picOday/picODay2.html
c)another acronym…:
BURN= BeURunNaked
THOMAS,PANOS…are we the Greeks included in the billion …or no???
( I am not kidding)
ok, back to the M6-8-9-10…GFI,Canon,Burn01…
P.S Love YOU ALL( and why not to Love you)
…I see ya VALERY…
wishing you best shootings !!!
ok, EMCD…have a shower…drink some ouzo…and come back to tell me…
you know me…I can wait :)))
DAVIDB…Stop eating TOR CAPAS cookies…I see you
KATIEEEEEEE FONSECA …I need update…MYGRACIE was here and there…with ice-cream
P.S Back to our regular program
EMCD: Hi Erica! It sounds interesting – that book of 1986 images from Philadelphia ‘Life in Philly’. Is that where you are living and is it the most dangerous city in the States – if dangerous can be linked to daily murder rates? I was recently told there’s 3 people murdered every day in that one city.
no, my home base is in NYC – though some years ago I was hired to document some of the rougher areas of phili for a city project. not my idea of how to operate, but the person who hired me also hired a driver and a bodyguard to escort me around. it was freezing outside, and they were stopping only where they wanted and yelling at me to jump back in the car after every shot, so the pics aren’t particularly inspired.
her book is all together different, a personal and wild intimate ride.
DAH,
Asked earlier but I think you were traveling.
How are you getting along with the optical viewfinder on the GF1?
Still thinking about this camera though the new Sony’s just announced look tempting too.
Best,
CP
I just received this e-mail regarding the 2010 Atlanta Celebrates Photography Festival:
“Next week, we’ll begin accepting listings for the 2010 ACP 12 Festival Guide. If you’re an artist or a venue that’s excited about participating in ACP 12, you’ll be able to create your own listing (online), and securely pay via Google Checkout.”
Link to e-mail newsletter:
http://acpinfo.org/newsletter/_2010/0512_fg-info.shtml?utm_source=E-Newsletter&utm_campaign=cdc5007b7d-2010_05_getready&utm_medium=email
FEDERICO..
i use the same lens and for the same reason
CHARLES
i took off the electronic viewfinder…awkward…looking for a good optical
DAH: just curious… you say the GF1 is with you all the time. how many pictures do you think you make in any given week/month, on average? I would imagine a lot of shots are done with no specific project or purpose in mind, would that be fair to say? what do you do with all of them? do you transfer everything to your computer daily, weekly? I’m struggling with managing the mountains of photographs the digital revolution has enabled me to make… and many just end up in a “random shots” type folder on my computer…maybe I just need to be more selective in what I shoot :)
DAVID: RE. my email: If you have any questions or want to talk (Skype or whatever), be sure to let me know! Whatever makes it easier for you!
Carsten; I just got ruthless and deleted 70gb of pics from the hard drive; very cathartic! :-)
BURNIANS,
check the twitter feed…aha…
Revolution on the 13th …go figure…
…surefire(idiom):)))
from beautiful Greece…THANK YOU ALL…be you and the rest is history…
cause
BURN IS THE PLACE TO BE…
your tedious
civi …laughing loud(copy and past)
check the twitter feed…aha… Revolution on the 13th …go figure…closing time
DAH: Revolutionary announcement??? Waiting with bated breath.
Man, beautiful day for biking. Sun finally came out but very odd due to so much humidity in the air (93%). Then around 4:30 when I had given up and come home I was walking in the garden of the place I am staying in Arkansas and all of a sudden the most incredible light. Due to all the equipment unloaded and bike in rack I just went out with my long lens and shot flowers in this incredible light. Felt good to shoot although it is outside my general interest area. The four deep purple iris’ were almost like silk! Looked good enough to eat.
Feel better to have captured some beauty. What’s not to love?
TIME IS OUR CHAIN…we are the slaves…
New Video
new video
from Innerspacecowpanos
it is shot on film (yeah sure)
enjoy from grecolandia with love…
“Losers always whine. Winners fuck the prom queen.”
Sean Connery
DAH,
Fotofreo in Perth was excellent. But you are rite it is a long way from anywhere.
I did a workshop with Trent. It was a hard decision, trying to decide if it is worth the cost,time,effort when none of those things are in great supply. But when you see some one give so much of them self to a class it really is something else.
At the end of the day it was just great to be surrounded by people that really care about photography and all really want to get better at what they do. It is not something I get a lot of down here.
I am hoping to get over to the US later in the year. I will track you down….
Carsten
Portable hard drives are super cheap these days.
Yes, it is hard to keep on top of it all. So easy to create thousands of images. It seems it takes more time to edit them than it did to create them.
I try to edit relativly soon after shooting, and put the keepers in a seperate file.
Gordon do what the kids do shoot > show > delete no need for a hard drive unless you get a photo of David mooning Panos then maybe it is a keeper
Imants go to your skype window right now and type (mooning)…dont forget the parenthesis and dont leave any spaces…
;)
Hi everyone….
Just wanted to insert myself and ask for a quick role call of folks who will be out and about for NYPH 10 in New York this weekend….I’m getting there friday afternoon and would love to meet up with any burnians who are in NYC at the time….will also be working (crowd control – ha!) the SLPS Saturday night, but early, will be around DUMBO most of the time…
Sing out of you’re going to be around…. :)
cheers,
a.
ALL…BREAKING NEWS…BREAKING NEWS…BREAKING NEWS…
this time the news are good..the news are great…
hard work prevails..hard work should be SUPPORTED..and honored..
not only with words and wishes but also with $$, euros,sterlings, money…
ok..the great news come from Japan…well its a collaboration between Japan and Belgium..
well u got it already..!!! right?
The great news has to do with the most CREATIVE BURNIAN…our very own ANTON (as patricia would say ;)
WE ALL ARE FAMILIAR with ANTON’S photos from his Yakuza project…
we all expecting the book , right? well Anton DARED to take it one step further…HIS VERY OWN MAGAZINE…
“893 MAGAZINE”
Just published HIS very own photography mag, about the Yakuza – 893 Magazine
http://antonkusters.com/WL
NOW ..ITS TIME FOR OUR SUPPORT ..BUY IT…Tell your friends…facebook it..myspaceit, twittit, eat it, spread the word…
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/05/13/893-magazine/
BUY IT HERE:
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/893-magazine-%231/10894184
buy and support the artist
buy and support the artist
buy and support the artist
buy and support the artist
buy and support the artist
buy and support the artist
buy and support the artist
buy it from the LULU store here… SUPPORT ANTON NOWWWWWWWWWWW!
http://stores.lulu.com/antonkusters
HERE WHAT ANTON HAS TO SAY:
“…I wonder how “wide” a photographer should be playing these days. It seems obvious to me that the time has passed that a photographer is merely required to make a good image.
Input has expanded from photography to video, internet, graphic design, writing,…
Output has grown from just “a book” to a smart mix of different things that make up a whole experience (book, magazine, video, multimedia, website, gallery, exhibition, …)
… and all of it seems to be crucially important. To be able to “widen your output” as a photographer, seems to me to require not only many more “input” skills than you are used to, but more importantly clever thinking what to “output” and how to combine those elements.
After I designed my book, I felt the need to be able to take my images further than just treating them as “photographs” in the traditional way. Not that the book is incomplete in any way, don’t get me wrong… it’s absolutely perfect… but it is also just one of the many parts of the story that is Yakuza.
(FYI the book will be incredibly beautiful and relevant when it hits the presses — for which I’m going to need some very specific help — but more on that next time)
I feel that by adding the stories I tell to my images, in a different way than is possible online, is an incredible enrichment to the story. So I designed a magazine that combines all the above into a package, the way that I actually envision it to be:
I’m not going to lift the veil just yet regarding other things that I’ll be doing while “playing wide”… but 893 Magazine gets the honor of being first in line.
So as of now I’m selling it as a hardcopy. Exciting… I’ll publish an issue twice a year, as long as the project goes.
I’ve worked on it for two months solid, and set the price at what I think it should be… $35 (equals about 25€ or 3000¥), so go ahead… indulge, enjoy… and please spread the word! post it to your blog, twitter it, call up your mom or shout it out in the streets… I depend on your help getting word out there. Seriously.
So grab a copy here… if you dare.
(there’s also a sneak peek option)
Yes I know, it’s a big plunge – this is my first step to carve my way into independently publishing my work.
Obviously this is only the tip of the iceberg, and getting the complete Yakuza project out there will take on many shapes and forms. I’m just secretly hoping that 893 Magazine will gain enough momentum with you buying and spreading the word…….
So there it is. You guys have the scoop. With hopefully many more to come…”
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/05/13/893-magazine/
So grab a copy here… if you dare.
(there’s also a sneak peek option)
hoping that 893 Magazine will gain enough momentum with YOU (ALL OF US) buying and spreading the word…….
PLEASE grab your credit card and purchase this “mother” now
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/893-magazine-%231/10894184
(u dont want to make uncle panos upset, do you???)
what not to love as The (dyslexic) Civi likes to repeat?
buy Antons magazine ..support the Artist..spread the word…call your mom, dad, mother in Law..
Mothers Day just passed? Who cares? buy your mom another present…
ok…IM SORRY..IM JUST EXCITED ..I KNOW ANTON will kill me for my old fashioned, tacky advertising techniques but i could care less…im here to express myself..and talk freely and say whatever i want..
FREEDOM OF SPEECH …ha ha , as my good friend Scottie keeps mumbling down in the beloved venice beach…
ok for the last time..
support the artist, buy Antons mag..
and this is only the beginning…
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/05/13/893-magazine/
Ross: yikes… 70gb gone? not sure I could pull the trigger :)
Gordon: thanks… it’s not a storage space problem though… it’s your second point: editing and organizing them all… editing soon after the shooting is good advice, I don’t always do that so the pile just keeps growing…
panos, thanks for the link – 893 looks awesome. congrats anton!
DAVID,
Revolutionnary announcement tomorrow….You are killing me….I am just about leaving for a 4 days week-end with no computer or internet…. well well well….will have to be patient then… hum, what could be revolutionnary???!!…you got me thinking….:):)
ANTON,
I am going out of the door virtually but will get my copy… I was eager to look at your work so what is better than holding something tangible in my hands…
PANOS,
One day I will hire you as my impresario :):):)
Cheers,
Eric
Carsten; “Ross: yikes… 70gb gone? not sure I could pull the trigger :)”
And about 80 pics from kids project… Gotta get tougher on my work and the delete button is the only way to put it into action… :-)
Cheers
just saw this on a facebook page wonder if it works here..
________________.s$$_________ ____s$
________________s$$$?______s__ ___s$³
______________.s$$$___ __.s$, ___s$$³
_____________s$$$$³______.s$__ _.$$³
________, ____$$$$$.______s$³__ __³$
________$___$$$$$$s_____s$³___ __³,
_______s$___³$$$$$$$s___$$$, ` ____..
_______$$____³$$$$$$s.__³$$s__ ___, ,
________³$.____³$$$$$$$s_.s$$$_ ___
_______`$$.____³$$$$$$$_$$$$__ _s³
________³$$s____³$$$$$$s$$$³__ s$³
_________³$$s____$$$$$s$$$$`__ s$$
______s.__$$$$___s$$$$$$$$³_.s $$³__
______$$_s$$$$..s$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $³__
______s$.s$$$$s$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $_
_____s$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$³
____s$$$ssss$$$$$$$$$$ssss$$$s
___$$s§§§§§§§§§s$$$$s§§§§§§§§§$$
___³§§§§§§§§§§§§§s$s§§§§§§§§§§§§§³
___§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§s§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
___³§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
____³§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§³
_____³§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§³
______³§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§³
________³§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§³
__________³§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§³
____________³§§§§§§§§§§§³
_______________³§§§§§³
_________________
Received this email from Sara Terry, founder of the Aftermath Project:
———————————————————————-
Dear friends and colleagues —
We are in the midst of getting ready to lay out “War is Only Half the Story, Vol Three,” featuring the work of 2009 grant winners Asim Rafiqui and Louie Palu, and finalists Saiful Huq Omi, Ami Vitale, Davide Monteleone, Andrea Bruce, Donald Weber, and Rodgrigo Abd.
The great news from the NEA is that we’ve just won a $15,000 matching grant to help publish and distribute the book.
That means, however, that we need to raise another $15,000 — which we can do with your help.
One of the most important ways we’re able to raise money for our book publication is by selling prints donated by the photographers themselves.
Please take a look at the PDF on our home page, to check out these wonderful photos. It’s a great opportunity to own a photo, and to support the publication of the book (and we’ll thank you in the book and send you a free copy!):
http://www.theaftermathproject.org
We’re also happy to accept donations via Paypal (see the link on our website home page), and good old-fashioned checks. You can make a donation, mark “Vol Three” on it, and the money will go straight to our matching funds for the NEA grant. Checks can be sent to:
The Aftermath Project
4900 Glenalbyn Dr.
Los Angeles, CA 90065
And by the way, to all you photographers who have applied, or hope to apply for an Aftermath grant, you probably know that we don’t charge an application fee, and we intend to keep it that way. But any donation you can make — even $10 — will be a big help in keeping us going — so that we can help you tell the stories you’re so passionately committed to.
Thanks to all of you in advance for all the ways you engage with the world — and for your support of the Aftermath Project.
Warm regards,
Sara Terry
Founder/Director
Thodoris. Some great pictures there. Will try and buy a couple at the end of the month.
……and yeah, of course im going to buy Antons mag :)
Money comes in….money goes out….its the fun you have with it that counts.
John
ALL: I am unhappy with the New York Times. OUTRAGED infact – by the inclusion of images of Mars in an ‘essay centered on Earth’. It was contributed to by thousands (if not millions of people around the globe), which appeared quite beautiful in it’s concept. I thought the aim was to unite people in one moment and share what was photographed. I did not enter a photograph myself partly because I wasn’t so sure of the terms that appeared to give copyright to the New York Times.
At this moment, my comment is being moderated but I would like to share it with you anway, in case anyone is interested:
\”Why limit it to Earth?\” This was the question of Emily Lakdawalla (the science and technology coordinator for the Planetary Society and a correspondent for Planetary.org) who entered it in response to a request for images taken around the planet EARTH.
Why???:
1) Because that was not what the New York Times asked for.
2) The planet Mars is a lifeless and exceptionally boring planet in comparison to Earth (as illustrated by the difference between the image/s entered and ALL other images).
3) Unlike Earth – and all the images entered – Mars looks pretty much the same in every single moment (so why bother trying to fit in with the time frame as requested).
4) The planet Earth is exceptionally varied, filled with life and, most crucially, is the home of all those who contributed images to this united effort on this day.
5) The inclusion of the image totally contradicts the spirit of the event – one of unity among the people involved and living on this: the only plant in the universe that we know can support our species and LIFE.
Furthermore, whoever is responsible for agreeing to it’s inclusion at the NYT pefectly illustrates a mindset that encourages people to break rules purely for entertainment sake – or for garnering attention – and at the same time, dishonouring every other single participant around the globe.
These images of Mars – in contrast with all other images entered – explain so very obviously the difference between Earth and all other planets in the universe that we know of. And I question whether it’s inclusion reflects a mindset that is at the very root of the environmental destruction that is damaging the future of life on Earth.
I urge everybody to take a look at all the images on a \”Moment in Time\” as a portrait of the planet Earth and compare them with the image/s of Mars. Perhaps it will let us see more clearly that with an atmosphere and the perfect conditions for life, we are lucky enough to be able to breathe here for a start…
All the other contributors were short-sighted?… Is that true? Or do they already appreciate what is right in front of their noses… right here were we ALL live… while others spend millions on exploring the universe in case there happens to be a drop of water on another planet instead of spending it on reparing the environmental damage we all did at a lower level of consciousness (one that clearly still exists)…
THE AFTERMATH PROJECT: I’m more than willing to contribute! The whole concept of your project is brillliant! : )
ANTON: Congratuuuuulations!!! Your magazine is GREAT and I’m so excited to see your book as well. The dummy looks amazing – the layouts combined with your compositions and colour sense. I love muted colours and moments melting like chocolate! Wishing you the best of luck with it. I shared it on my facebook page earlier today and will be spreading the news!!!
I’ll have to share the link I put to it on here again a little later as the system is saying I am posting comments too quickly.
just woke up…ha ha..
Eric… :)
thank you for the new job…impresario!!!!!! or coffee maker or teaching yogis how to levitate & fly in india, driving a school bus on mars, cleaning stairs on earth…i dont mind…at this point any job sounds great..i would take it…
And speaking about jobs here is a great book to read:
“The Career Book for People Too Smart to Work in Corporations ”
http://www.amazon.com/Career-Success-without-Real-Job/dp/0969419473/ref=pd_sim_b_4
still waking up…i love the sense of humor here in burn..
ohhh speaking about Mars…
Jenny…:)))))
whats your beef with Mars? no photos from our long lost red Dead brother? i know i know…Mars looks like earth after a heroin overdose…but its ok…death is as natural as life…same coin different side…death is the celebration and proof of life…cmon let them photograph Mars too…i would actually prefer to see Mars than another snake charming picture of India…here see the hoax yourself:
Panos, this book comes 20 years too late. Anyway, I put it to my wishlist :)
Jenny ;))
my oh my..now im reading your text again..it seems you were not joking…you said OUTRAGED!!!!?????
confused maybe , but OUTRAGED?…oh cmon..
you said that NYT encourages people to break the rules!!!??? he he..thats cool although i doubt it…dont u think that usually the opposite is the truth…Obey, obey, obey, obey the Rules, obey the ten commandments…
ha ha…i wish someone would encourage anyone to break any rules (i doubt that nyt had the balls for that either…laughing)
You also said:
“….I urge everybody to take a look at all the images on a \”Moment in Time\” as a portrait of the planet Earth and compare them with the image/s of Mars. Perhaps it will let us see more clearly that with an atmosphere and the perfect conditions for life, we are lucky enough to be able to breathe here for a start…”
ahhh cmon !thats too Earth-centric…in my spare time i fly an F-16 on the google Mars simulator..try it ..its fun (except from the fact that the laptop overheats..:))))
You also said something else that is totally unfair though:
“…All the other contributors were short-sighted?… Is that true? Or do they already appreciate what is right in front of their noses… ”
Ohhh cmon again now!! You are from england ..Why you left to wander around asia and the world? Is it because you couldnt appreciate what was in front of your nose? i did the same…I hate to say it but the truth is that both me and you and any other traveler , explorer, wanderer out there we increase our CARBON FOOTPRINT every time we travel or move around..we are destroying earth equally…each time we go to meditate in India or Thailand just as the guy with the black suit that works for Wall Street…see what i mean? At least the spaceship that photographs Mars pollutes way less than the guy that takes the next flight to go visit “god” in Tibet or Mecca or the Vatican…
ha ha…another one…
“… And I question whether it’s inclusion(Mars) reflects a mindset that is at the very root of the environmental destruction that is damaging the future of life on Earth….”
Jenny, Jenny,Jenny..u know i love you..u know im mostly “tongue on cheek” etc etc…but now im jealous..
because i dont know what are u drinking, but whatever you drink i hate you because you are not sharing with me..
ok, big hug…you made me smile..(u know im teasing)
Thomas…:)
ha ha..keep your corporate job…dont listen to me..im just a hater coz i aint got one…
biggest hug
hmmm..too quiet over here..lemme repost then:
ALL…BREAKING NEWS…BREAKING NEWS…BREAKING NEWS…
ANTON just published HIS very own photography mag, about the Yakuza – 893 Magazine
http://antonkusters.com/WL
NOW ..ITS TIME FOR OUR SUPPORT ..BUY IT…Tell your friends…facebook it..myspaceit, twittit, eat it, spread the word…
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/05/13/893-magazine/
about our overdosed red brother…message from his drug dealers:
http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00002474/
Thodoris..
good job and good luck raising the money…
And do not forget to watch”
“We are all slaves of the Time monster…”
i proved it below:
“ha ha..keep your corporate job…dont listen to me..im just a hater coz i aint got one…”
—–
If you knew how much I’d like to change with you… :))))
There has being a misunderstanding:
I have no connection with the Aftermath Project.
It’s a project created and run by Sara Terry.
I merely copied and pasted the information above.
ALL….
in the middle of Kabukicho now shooting…
PANOS YOU DOG… indeed you are my “burn impressario” … perfect…
THANK YOU all for your comments and support, will be back here as soon as i can…
but first shooting time now… night setting in over tokyo…
(sending this from my iphone where i managed to pick up an open wireless connection)
hugs to all, have a GREAT day, and:
buy one if you dare…
a
ANTON…sorry..but you should be in this room…:))))))))))
anton
May 13, 2010 at 8:55 am
ALL….
in the middle of Kabukicho now shooting…
PANOS YOU DOG… indeed you are my “burn impressario” … perfect…
THANK YOU all for your comments and support, will be back here as soon as i can…
but first shooting time now… night setting in over tokyo…
(sending this from my iphone where i managed to pick up an open wireless connection)
hugs to all, have a GREAT day, and:
buy one if you dare…
a
buy one if you dare…
——————
no thanks..i already have an iPhone…laughing..
be safe in japanlandia…
THANKS PANOS….
you see… you are…
hugs to all….
I’m going to give DAH a drum roll …
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Drum_Roll_Sound.aspx
Viva the Revolution!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/03/blogs/a-moment-in-time.html/
Somebody posted it?
It’s mine…:))
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/03/blogs/a-moment-in-time.html/#/4bdd9c770bca2560ba000182
…and mine
:ø)
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/03/blogs/a-moment-in-time.html#/4bdfb7ebb93af16f7c000102
Oh! David Boween, Very sweet…:)))
I did not enter a photograph myself partly because I wasn’t so sure of the terms that appeared to give copyright to the New York Times.
—————————————————————-
but here Jenny i will AGREE WITH YOU…
Jenny you are absolutely right..stay away from tricksters and their “Moments”…
“Moments” my ass…
this is exactly the real problem…that nyt take advantage the photographers..make all those folks work for FREE so they profit, look good…its not Mars that bugs me..its the evil way of thinking..the smart way to take advantage all those good people that submit with good Faith…
Burnians resist…
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/05/13/893-magazine/
ANTON,ANTON,ANTON
who is the heart of BURN???
Who is the bee of BURN???
who is the soul of BURN???
Who is the ADMIN of BURN???
Who stays up all night…ready to support you???
who is next to you…when you are lost and found in the submitting time???
who ,who,who???
ANTON,ANTON,ANTON…you might think that I am not objective…cause I am a civilian…
BUT…I LOVE his work and I am Speechless…
therefore
I call all civilians and photophilosophers to buy the magazine …
I am calling All the Universe to Start the JOURNEY…
No, I haven’t touch the ouzo…not yet…:)))
WE LOVE YOU ANTON…PANOS, is right…
“Tell your friends…facebook it..myspaceit, twittit, eat it, spread the word…”
ANTON, YES WE DARE…!!!
BREAKING NEWS
Thai red-shirt supporter Gen Khattiya shot
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8680455.stm
Seh Daeng was shot in the head during an interview with one of its reporters.
New York City? NYPH 10? Anyone?
Thai red-shirt supporter Gen Khattiya shot
The BBC’s Rachel Harvey says Gen Khattiya was quickly taken to hospital
A renegade Thai general who backs anti-government protesters has been shot, shortly after a deadline for troops to seal their Bangkok protest camp passed.
Khattiya Sawasdipol, better known as Seh Daeng (Commander Red), was shot in the head and seriously injured.
In clashes later, a protester was shot dead. The army has moved to seal off the protesters’ large camp.
A state of emergency in place in the capital and surrounding areas is to be extended to 15 other provinces.
The BBC’s Rachel Harvey in Bangkok says all talk of reconciliation and election timetables has been abandoned and the Thai capital is braced for further bloodshed.
The US has closed its embassy in Bangkok saying it is “very concerned” – and the UK also said it was closing its embassy on Friday because of the situation.
oime…where is MR.VINK …where is HERVE…where are my other BURNIANS…
who is over there…
please, report …I hope you are all fine …drinking green tea or beer…
oime…the revolution has started…
I wanna thank Katharina for skyping me the Breaking News..
where is Herve??? photos?
the NYT terms of use..
—By submitting to The New York Times, you are promising that the content is original, doesn’t plagiarize from anyone or infringe a copyright or trademark, doesn’t violate anybody’s rights and isn’t libelous or otherwise unlawful or misleading. You are agreeing that we can use your submission on Lens, the photojournalism blog of The New York Times, and in the online and print version of the New York Times promoting or referring to the Lens post. Please let us know if you have any questions or comments regarding these terms. —
You are agreeing that we can use your submission on Lens, the photojournalism blog of The New York Times, and in the online and print version of the New York Times promoting or referring to the Lens post.
hardly up there with rights-grab competitions..
You are agreeing that we can use your submission on Lens, the photojournalism blog of The New York Times, and in the online and print version of the New York Times promoting or referring to the Lens post.
============================================================
for free
for free
for free
for free
“promote me For Free”
they did their job with your photo already…ahh but of course..u keep the copyright..sweet deal…
Andrew B. & NYC residents:
“Leica Offering Free M9 Camera Loans During New York Photo Festival”
http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/news/e3ie30e47167303d76a348cd07c4f074eba
Herve , where the pictures at???
The 10 April operation left 19 protesters, one journalist and five soldiers dead.
for free.. for fun.. no discernable promotion for me, and from the way it worked out a big headache for
the nyt .. certainly no cynical rights grab, and if it gave their blog some promo – cool n the gang.. it’s a good blog / magazine..
have to say i thought it would be more interesting.. very few of the photos submited have anything about them.
Attenti…………..on….ANDREWB is in NEW YORK…
We need some BURNING meeting…
come on ya,BURNIANS…
where are you PANOS??? I got souvlakia, the last ones …
and from the way it worked out a big headache for
the nyt ..
———————————-
ok DB…i give up debating, i said my opinion, i rest my case…
i found their “headache” sketchy, profitable..and im staying away…
we are all adults…do as you like..
big hug
DAVIDB…I love your photo…it feels like home…
aiii…I miss the blue eyed CAPA !!!
and
KYUNGHEE… I love your photo…it doesn’t feel like home
BUT…it feels like heaven…
cause
NOT EVEN THE SKY IS THE LIMIT…
and…
damnit I miss SPACECOWBOY…and KATIIEIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE
hiihii…PANOS…hiiii
what are we drinking???
BOBBY…OUR PATRICIA…HAIK…LASSAL…KATHARINA…
EVA…WENDY….VICKY…JASON…
it’s the 13th…
and before I go…
MR.HARVEY…are we there yet (no need to reply…take your time…
we ain’t go nowhere…once a BURNIAN…always a shooter…)
ah…we thank you in advance…hiiii
http://www.antonkusters.com/2010/05/13/893-magazine/
I will be back
May Peace prevail…where are my academians…when I need them…
feels like home due to the mess civi
have the place to myself now.. whiskey open.. workingworkingworking
:ø)
there is no debate panos – just settleing confusion on copyright for jenny..
there are more interesting and bigger fish to debate, in terms of abusing photographers..
I posted a picture to A Moment in Time, too…
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/03/blogs/a-moment-in-time.html#/4bdd8a03db799a616800000e
thomas – you have style..
no indoor helicopter.. never mind..
:ø)
DB..all good…
Civi…mythos beer and souvlaki..i kept the last one for you..if u can find me its yours..u got 10 minutes..
Herve , where the pictures at???
The 10 April operation left 19 protesters, one journalist and five soldiers dead.
———————————–
Well, Panos, I am not a professional photographer, never had a formation to be one and make an income from it, gaining ever more experience. For that very reason, even if I was based in Bangkok (which I am not) and was able to be there for the whole 2 months duration of the protests (which were actually stand-offs, really boring stuff for weeks at a time without ho one having the faintest idea when things could move a bit) April 10th would have been the one day I would stay home.
I actually meant for you not so much to get into a danger zone, but more behind the scenes stuff and psychology, individual stories, etc… I apologize for not being more clear on that point.
It’s a good thing to compare both places. What happens now in Athens happens to all greeks, all of Greece is concerned, it’s real stuff. In Thailand, nothing of the sort, it is basically a tug of war between old monies, traditional elites and new capitalistic forces. social struggles are only, if at all, paid lip service, and each side is simply catering, in time-honored asian fasshion, to its own clientele. No leaders, but plenty of bosses (phu yai), in short. The immense majority of thais are unconcerned by that tug of war, it’ s business as usual (how do you photograph business as usual?!?!?), with the same usual suspects of thai politics.
I spent a day with the red shirts last year, IMO, that is more than enough, photographically, as far as people gathering in one spot, to eat, sell and buy t-shirts. Now, of course, if David was to ask me to try to do something for BURN about the whole shenanigan, I’d do it (for the boss! Phu yai David….)and I’d make him proud. But he hasn’t asked. Still, I sent him my own special commentary about this crazy month of April in Thailand, under the guise of a submitted photo. Maybe silent, but not MIA for one second! :-)
Herve…well said..
i agree with everything u say..
big hug
Cool, Panos, I am glad you asked (My answer had been prepraed for days!!!).
BTW, anyone, correct me if I am wrong, but the big PJ guns were maybe there (there are an awful lot of press-card carrying PJs residing in BKK) , but definitely MTE (missing the action). The best stuff I saw when things got really hot was by amateurs and tourists crazy enough to be at the wrong place at the right time, so to speak. I think a young french agency photographer, woman, was able to get close to the mysterious “men in black”, but really by chance, from her own words. And that poor japanese guy, who died.
Is there anything from Blenkinsop, BTW?
Blenkinsop? busy feeding the python at home ;)
For DAH :) who does change the world, and who has one of the more free minds out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imb4tYOk8GE
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We’d all love to see the plan….
am I late???
1:25 am…in Grecoland…i missed PANO’S souvlakia…a bomb in Athens…
a baby chicken is dead …the others are Emerging …
BUT I got to see…HERVE …
the Evolution has become …I can feel it…
and it goes like this…
BURN,BURN,BURN…all we need is BURN
nananannnnnn…
BURN,BURN, BURN altogether
aihhh…aihhh…all together
yes…bomb exploded outside the main prison in athens…
The Universe is watching…
everybody!!!
BURN,BURN,BURN
what a mission !!!
20/20
BURN,BURN,BURN
soul and vision…
etcetera…
Hervé, have you checked out Agnès Dherbeys pics about the first confrontation? She’s the one you’re talking about. And she has more than chance pics…
Here is her link: http://www.agnesdherbeys.com/
Here is the black clad guy: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html
And more here: http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/04/11/world/20100411THAILAND2_index.html
Yes, that’s her. Thanks, John, and I did not say she was taking chance shots, but that she fell upon the black-clad men by chance (see press excerpt below):
Bangkok Post (4/25/10)
Agnes Dherbeys, a 32-year-old French freelance photojournalist, was wandering the small sois around Democracy Monument on the night of April 10, looking for the military when she ran into a man in black.
“I don’t want any misunderstanding,” Ms Dherbeys says of the image she snapped and which was published, along with more of her images taken on the day, by The New York Times. It is now arguably one of the most important to have emerged from the clash. “I didn’t know if he was red or military. I knew it was important.”
ALL/PANOS: Sorry not to get back to you sooner. Been a little bit busy here to say the least.
Re. The man in black in Bangkok image ran in the New York Times. Yes, I feel that was an especially important image because the New York Times ran it not knowing who it was, which side he was on, or not actually knowing what was really going on at the time that they ran it. And, certainly the situation in Thailand then escalated at high speed and there was talk of civil war and so on. Was immediately sharing it as the newspaper did responsible given that even the photographer said she didn’t know if he was red or military?
Re: the “Moment in Time”. I was informed it was a ‘rights grab’ by the New York Times by someone who has spent many years looking into these things but of course, do not know this for certain. If this is the case, it bascially used people around the world to amass a heap of images.
By the way, I am doing my level best to do as little damage to the environment in every single day and believe that at no point have I done as much damage to the environment as the likes of BP and/or all corporations around the world that are driving the wheels that support ‘careless capitalism’.
jenny – they cannot use nor resell the images in any context outside the single blog post or to publisize the single blog post .. if it were an attempt at rights grab it is a pretty poor one :ø)
DAVIDb: Re. A moment in Time. The portrait was created without any payment for any contributions and perhaps that’s not such a good example to follow though clearly not up with ‘rights grab competitions’ like you say.
PANOS: Sorry, can’t respond to your comment because the damage being done to this planet needs to be addressed urgently (because there is NO alternative and global warming is going to have very serious consequences) and here, where the military is surrounding a place where people have been peacefully protesting with a simple request for fresh elections – and killing them is unforgivable. I hope at least YOU are having an entertaining day.
jenny..
i guess the two choices were to pay 15000+ photographers or not to do the project..
i’m glad they did it, as it is a fresh break from the kind of hard news they ordinarily have to push on lens…. an idea which lends a relief and possitivity to balance out the rest.
we’re all right to be careful where our work goes – to think on it responsibly and make up our own minds..
photography is widely accessable.. enebling ideas such as the NYT event due to the vast numbers of people who enjoy photography and don’t want an income from it.
remember they were not asking for photographers to submit – they were asking readers.
i think the NYT has been transparent in it’s intentions
the bigger fish in the illegal use of work discussion are blatant and just as transparent.. google digitizing books for free access on the web.. twittered photos from haiti stolen .. on and on.. there are a hundred instances of rights grab or stolen photos which never get a mention as most of us as photographers deal with the situations ourselves, individually..
my percpetion is that it is about choosing our battles.. because some use on newspaper and other websites will always be freely sourced readers contributions.. the precident is set and will not change..
i think we can fight the tide tackling those uses or muster ourselves for a more defined battle against more serious cases of photographer abuse..
..
regardless – it’s good to take about such things..
:ø)
talk.. not take :ø)
where people have been peacefully protesting with a simple request for fresh elections
——————————-
If I may, Jenny,if you talk about Thailand, you need to get your facts straight, People were protesting for the PM to resign and the assembly to be dissolved, without delay or timetable. Then within 30 days, then everyone (save the monarchists/traditionnalists yellow shirts) agreed for elections to take place by November.
In many ways, the Red shirts had won, with every side pretty much saving face (very important in Thailand). Yet, the violent-prone faction of the red shirts (on order of big boss, fugitive billionaire Thaksin, they said) decided to oppose what had been agreed upon. It seems, upon this agreement, that the red shirts had an opportunity to strategically ally with the democrat party and its PM, against the retentive yellow shirts. But:
When it comes to thai politics, there is nothing “simple”, Jenny. Especiallly as none of us are privy to what happens behind the scenes, where the deals are made, and the real power resides.
raining in Greece…my computer is down…i am transmitting from a friends house…
can’t see the comments…
i hope I am in the right aisle…
can’t see photos…
I gave away 4 chickens to a family nearby…
they have kids…I tried to explain about CIRCUS…
eyes wide open…they told me …that they better stick with the chickens…at least for now…
hmmm…
P.S I will be back to see you …I hope that you are out and shooting…or you are pretending that you are shooting…
cruise ship tourists civi / 187 exposures of them yesterday.. alway enjoyed photographing tourists.. lost souls mostly standing very still inj front of views, looking as though they have missed the party..
HERVE: Whatever you say mate. I’m sure you know everything about what is going on here. But if you check the latest, you’ll find that the government rescinded their earlier offer of a November date for the election.
PS Rescinded or rejected – depends on who you talk to… anyway, no trust there, not surprisingly. Off out again.
I hope at least YOU are having an entertaining day.
—————————————————-
ahhhhh..Jenny i guess u being sarcastic…If u were watching the news (or my previous posts-breaking news) you would know that greece is going through tough times nowadays…people protest everyday, 3 people burned alive in a bank few days ago(one of them pregnant girl), economy collapses , euro goes down every second, unemployment the only thing that goes UP, government ready to go, anarchists on the streets and you talking about “an entertaining day”…
hmmm what not to love?
even Civi’s computer is down…what entertainment u talking about?
big hug
i guess the two choices were to pay 15000+ photographers or not to do the project..
—————————————————————————–
David B..:)
i would go with the second choice…They should should cover events that pay photogs and journalists…
not inventing new, fun ways to put 15000+photographers to work for free..even if its for one day…again they should employ people to fill up their pages..not smart ass freebies…
not should should…
just should…;)
Panos it’s “quitting time…..”
Bangkok. Bob you were talking about Nick Nostitz?
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/05/16/nick-nostitz-in-the-killing-zone/
Same situation, another viewpoint:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=123968350962277
OIME…OIME…OIME…Red Cross to evacuate Red Shirt women, children
a message from BURNIANS to NICK NOSTITZ…
May the spirits of Peace and Photography be with you…
we guess it’s your calling…
BUT
if you change your mind…
our door is open…
you “crazy” enough to figure out the rest…
The whole Universe is watching…
P.S Thanks MR.VINK,HERVE,PANOS,JENNY,DB…for the updates…
the R-evolution just started
“Democracy don’t rule the world, You’d better get that in your head; This world is ruled by violence, But I guess that’s better left unsaid.”
Bob Dylan
“Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.”
Oscar Wilde (Irish Poet, Novelist, Dramatist and Critic, 1854-1900)
“The secret of happiness is freedom. The secret of freedom is courage.”
Thucydides quotes (Ancient Greek historians and author, 460-404bc)
What are we drinking…thinking…???
John V. thank you….no words.:(
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/05/16/nick-nostitz-in-the-killing-zone/
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=123968350962277
http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/the-battle-for-bangkok/
Government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn says there is no reason for the army to withdraw since “authorities are not using weapons to crack down on civilians.”
sure…aha…
Regarding Thailand, what follows are some excerpts from Charles Bowden’s new book “Murder City.” I believe that Bowden is possibly the best creative writer and the best journalist alive and working today. Of course I haven’t read nearly all of them, but I am confident that he is one of the best. A lot of his work over the past ten years has been done about Juårez, Mexico. Bowden considers it the laboratory of our future (afterword by Eduardo Galleano, btw). I think a lot of what he says relates to the situation in Thailand and may of the other situations-of-the-day we’re always talking about.
Everything is supposed to get better. This conclusion is never explained, it is simply asserted. The economy will always get better, and this will make every single human being better. The drug consumption will go away, and all the bodies will glow with new health. the energy systems that drive human communities will morph from one form to another form, but they will always deliver the amount of energy desired at the price that is bearable. Eventually, with some more wok in the laboratories, we will live a hundred, maybe two hundred years, maybe forever. We must be patient, but this future is certain. Places without factories will get factories, places that have seen factories close will get something even better for employment. No one will be hungry, no one will be fat, no one will be ugly, and no one will be without love. Education will spread like a plague, and everyone will know more because information is the future—- not fabricating metals, or digging in the earth, or plowing fields, or sewing clothes. The distinctions between the sexes will erode, and rights will be equal for both man and woman. Tribes will melt away. So, too, will nations. Wars will cease, and peace will come. Democracy will win. There is no other choice: It is written…
Miss Sinaloa knows a different future. There will be cocaine and whiskey and it will help, but it will never prove sufficient to the need. And the need will not be denied… What is violence? What does it mean for violence to be out of control? And where, within this thing called violence, do we fit this thing called murder? … But what if the violence is not a kind of breakdown, but more like a flower springing from the rot on a forest floor? …The factories are now the house of death, offering no future, poisoning the body with chemicals, destroying the spirit faster than cocaine or meth.
Juårez is not behind the times. It is the sharp edge slashing into a time called the future. We have made careers out of studying the Juårezes of the world, given them the name Third World. We have fashioned schemes to bring them into our place beside the sacred fire and called these schemes development. Each new building with a wall of glass stands as a temple to our ambitions to pour the mash of human life on this planet into one mold. But always, a place like Juårez is seen over the shoulder, some city glimmering in our own past, a place we have moved beyond, and now with a few magical tugs of our economic ropes, we intend to bring Juårez and its sister cities around the world promptly into our orbit of power and largess. We count the employment, we tally the exports, we rummage in the till, and we comfort ourselves with these numbers because that is our safe place. …All our understanding of such places is based on the new buildings and calming numbers. …A simple shift in total population takes Juårez from the column called developing to the column called failure. So we are careful in what we see and what we count and what we admit.
But what if Juårez is not a failure? What if it is closer to the future that beckons all of us from our safe streets ans Internet cocoons? Here, boys stand on corners with pistols because there is no work, or if there is work, it pays little or nothing…
After decades of this thing called development, Juårez has in sheer numbers more poor people than ever, has in real purchasing power lower wages than ever, has more pollution than ever, and more untreated sewage and less water than ever. Every claim of a gain is overwhelmed by a tidal wave of failure. And yet this failure, I have come to realize, is not failure. The gangs are not failure. The corrupt police are not failure. The drugs, ever cheaper and more potent and more widespread, are not failure. The media is increasingly tame here, just as it is in that place that once proudly called itself the first world, a place now where wars go on with barely a mention and the dead are counted but not photographed.
Everything in Juårez will soon be state-of-the-art.For years the prosperous here have bundled themselves into gated communities, and now those strongholds are not sufficient, and security has vanished from the life of the city… There is no job retraining because there are no new jobs to be trained for. The future here is now, the moment is immediate, and the message is the crack of the automatic weapons. All the other things happening in the world 00 the shattering of currencies, the depletion of resources, the skyrocketing costs of food, energy, and materials — are old hat here. Years ago, hope moved beyond reach, and so a new life was fashioned and now it crowds out all other notions of life.
Please be advised that there will be no apocalypse. the very idea of a Gotterdammerung assumes meaning and progress. You cannot fall off a mountain unless you are climbing. No one here is slouching toward Bethlehem to be born. We shall not meet next year in Jerusalem. For years, I thought I was watching the city go from bad to worse, a kind of terrible backsliding from its imagined destiny as an America with different food. I was blind to what was slapping me in the face: the future. A place where conversion is a gun a d reality is a drug and time is immediate and tomorrow, well, tomorrow is today because there is no destination beyond this very second.
Anyway, sorry for the long extract, but it’s an interesting thesis. And maybe Thailand (or the country hosting next week’s calamity) will prove to be different, another America only with differently spiced food.
Wow, sorry for the messed up formatting. I’d never tried a blockquote here before. Should have tested it on something less wordy.
MICHAEL…
thanks for the above thesis and double thanks for the format…
blockquote …works for my vision…
ooo
Citation
Emphasized text
Strong text
Definition term
Computer code textSample computer code text
Keyboard text
Variable
Michael, I am not a specialist of Thailand. But I know for sure it is in SE Asia and not in the Americas, and second that it is predominantly Buddhist and not Christian. Therefore what’s going on over there is more complicated to grasp for people over on the other side. And if scenarios or revolutions are replicable for historians, they aren’t necessarily so in real life.
It needed to be said. Thanks, John!
Panos, you are posting everywhere, twice!!!!
BTW, Let us remind people that the battles are extremely localised, in Bangkok. Not to minimize the damage done, but in regards to “Thailand”. It being the situtation IN thailand, not OF Thailand. No civil war yet, and plenty of “thai smiles” to go around, nationwide…
and I thought that I was the only one drinking here…
we are all over the place…hiiiii
VIVA!!!
Panos, you are posting everywhere, twice!!!!
—————————————
see how confused i am? Gemini also..:(
Jenny, only the yellow shirts were against the agreement for new elections at first. Then, that general Ksattiya (who got shot in the head) decided it would have none of it. Personally, I think all of the Red shirts assembled in Bangkok, should have voted for or against. The way they are concentrated, it was totally possible to do. That’s true people power, but that’s not the way things happen in thailand.
In Asia, and most places actually, if you make a deal, and one party refuses to follow up, it is common sense to drop the deal. But really, once the hot-headedness will subside, which resulted in unnecessary deaths again, I predict the govnmt will put the “new election” deal back in gear, and people will vote. I may be wrong, of course, but that’s what I think.
Government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn says there is no reason for the army to withdraw since “authorities are not using weapons to crack down on civilians.”
sure…aha…
————————–
Civi, these kind of statements, so highly deserving of the “made in Thailand” label, is what makes reading (english for me) newspapers in Thailand entertaining. Always makes me start my days there with a big laugh… (granted the TV is not on the FOX News channel!)
Latest death toll from May 14-16 clashes as of 10pm: 31 dead and 230 injured:Erawan centre
Talking to red guards, they say the safety of foreign journalists is no longer guaranteed. We are all targets now
http://twitter.com/veen_NT
Red Shirts, Panos, not Guards. Don’t bring China into this, please!…. :-))))
Therefore what’s going on over there is more complicated to grasp…
Ummmm. Yea. Duh. I’m suggesting it’s far more complicated than any of you are demonstrating you realize. And terms and designations like “Buhhdist,” “SE Asia,” etc. only go so far in modifying the much more important factors in the equation, which include, but are not limited to, “human,” “21st century,” and “capitalism.”
Today is just not my day for HTML, eh. But it’s been good otherwise. Perfect NY spring day. Got up before dawn, took a long walk around south Brooklyn, then went to the Bronx Zoo, finally came home and found a — get this– giant southeast Asian festival going on down the block. A quick bite to eat and off to Coney Island. Gotta love it.
MICHAEL,
fixed your blockquote and changed it to italics…. hope you don’t mind but it took over the screen just a little tad too much, and knowing it was not your desired result
cheers
I don’t mean to come off as indifferent to the suffering and injustices inflicted on the people of Thailand, or whatever other distant place’s suffering and injustices make the news in any given cycle. It’s just that I see quite a bit of that where I live. For example, the killing in Thailand is happening at just about the same pace as it is here in Brooklyn. We had over 200 murders last year. Yesterday I heard teenage girls from down the street say that everyone knew there were going to be a lot of shootings this summer, that the boys all have guns and just don’t care about living or dying. From what I see, I’d say it’s nearly impossible for us to understand ourselves, much less other people, even those down the street or in our hometowns. I know a lot of us flee that local reality and end up on the other side of the world. Things do seem so much simpler there. The problems are clear. The solutions obvious. It’s like we can actually make a difference! Unlike here, wherever here is, where it’s just too fucked up and we are powerless.
Totally agree with you, Michael. besides, the reporting from Thailand by the written press is below standard. Thais in their vast majority are not dragged in the conflict, whatever sympathy or not they have for one side or another. Culture? Wisdom? incredulity? neutrality? whatever the reason, this is one of the important and very positive aspects of that crisis, that absolutely no foreign media reports on.
The conflict is strictly between the people who have started the protests and the govnmt forces. There has been no snowballing effect, and if I understand, at some point the protesters numbers were close to 100 000, and now just a few thousand. You can also count on hearing stories, soon, of much money being made approvisionning the red shirts with arms, grenade launchers and ammunition. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was one of the main reasons some wished to continue the “struggle”.
don’t know if this has been posted: Red Shirts:
http://magazine.viiphoto.com/index.php/feature/show/268
Eva: I think so. But it doesn’t matter: it is worth looking at again…
John, I guess yes.. reading, listening and watching, but haven’t really made up my mind yet.. here’s another link, and there’s more in the April archive as well:
http://pistolesiphoto.blogspot.com/2010_05_01_archive.html
Eva: thanks. Didn’t know about her.
Sorry: his…
S…: him
Thanks Eva, indeed. On his blog, May 1st, interesting insightful comments. Just one excerpt:
“Thaksin is closer to Berlusconi then to Lenin (1); he never discussed the economical system of the country, being one of the richest tycoon on earth: he merely gave some economical benefits to the large countryside population to obtain a solid electoral base, to be transformed into power. The subsequent turmoil was a power struggle among rich and powerful, not a popular revolt: a confrontation deeply rooted into tradition and religion more then in ideology and politics”.
(1) my note: actually Thaksin has compared himself to Gandhi and Mandela, though these 2 great men never became fugitive, were not tycoons, never became citizens of other countries to escape their own’s jurisdiction, and inspired the world over. Etc….
Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock. –
Sigmund Freud
HERVE/PANOS/ALL: Hope you got to read this piece in Newsweek! At least someone’s got it right!!!
“Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was thought to be a populist demagogue. Actually, he was the high-water mark for Thai democracy.”
http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/1
Happy to read one or two of the comments which also help to show how the Red Shirt movement really is a ‘Robin Hood’ effort to help reduce inequalty in Thailand which incidentally is a little in the vein of Gandhi, Herve, now you mention it. ; )
http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/1
http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/2
But of course, Thanksin is not Gandhi. Gandhi’s whole way of operating was in line with Ahimsa – non-violence – but then, his words did ignite the populace and what they did was not always non-violent…
NB Please remember that HH Dalai Lama is still in exile after 50 years. He is truly practising Ahimsa and sharing it with the world which is clearly helping. But, his culture is dying and large numbers of his people are in exile and at home in Tibet, are now outnumbered by Chinese migrants under the PRC’s ‘colonization’ programme.
BTW: If photographers are only showing images of the clashes – the action moments – at the time when Red Shirts are reacting to 1) the military offensive on April 10 2) the death of Seh Daeng and 3) the military force sent in 24 hours after the government said the protest could continue (and NOT the 2 month long protest which was largely peaceful), NO WONDER cameras are being destroyed on ‘the front line’. The front line?!! Really this is way over the top terminology when the violence has been confined to small pockets of the city.
By the way, I have just logged in here and been off here for a couple of days, have you read the reports saying that 2 foreigners are believe to be involved or behind the arson attacks on Central World? This may sound far-fetched but having met some of the ‘farangs’ in Bangkok, I do believe it.
Final comment on Ahimsa, cos I’m starving:
I was just wanting to look up a longer meaning of Ahimsa and so googled it and immediately up came an explanation from my former teacher (or those that followed in his footsteps). Very, very hard to practise this, especially for someone like me. Here’s the explanation:
http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/ahimsa.htm
Maybe try a little ‘karma Cola’.
should be a must read for anyone looking to ‘find themselves”.
PEACE
John
curious about two things…first, why are you guys over here under “closing time” dialogue, when our new dialogue post for discussion is ” of trees and dreams”? i guess it doesn’t really matter since the discussion is about Thailand etc anyway, but some Thai discussion now is under one dialogue post and some of it is under another…second, both Herve and Jenny are on location in Thailand and i have seen no pictures from either…maybe there is nothing to shoot except fire, injuries, riots , police, etc…this is probably the case…but since feelings are so strong on the issues, i would imagine there might be some way to explore…
DAH: Sorry about that – the discussion seemed to be on both dialogue pages. Herve is not here in Thailand and has not been in Bangkok during the Red Shirt protest but is currently putting together a story on the Northeast of Thailand for you/Burn he told me. I’m currently putting together a sequence focused on the people – the protestors – and the protest itself which began just up the street from where I’m staying and, was so captivating that I put my new project on the backburner. That project is centered on a park that is a little like the UN in as much as there are people from just about every country around the world there (or there were before the news of the problems in Bangkok spread) who are/were sharing everything from fire dancing to hulahula to capoeira to acrobatics.
Jenny, Newsweek, this is 2010, not 2001 (or2 or 3, or even 2006).
You seem to take all this personally, using arguments (Tibet and Dalai Lama) so irrelevant to thai politics just to make the same point.
We got it (your point), you know? :-))))
David, I was back in SF before it erupted again, and in any case, I wouldn’t be interested in risking my life just to shoot a set of tires burning. There were dozens of Pjs there, no need for another Joe Schmuk and his “pro-sumer” Canon DSLR…. :-)
I like what John Vink once stated, on the MAGNUM site I think. Can’t recall precisely, but it was about getting “there”, after the other photographers got home.
About Thai politics, I can’t care less. Neither on one side or the other, like most thais truly. I just love to talk about Thailand when the subject comes about…
yeap, MR.HARVEY…I don’t usually show fingers…BUT
MR.VINK is responsible for opening the closing time…hmmm…
yeap, MR.VINK it’s all your fault…hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
I am out of here…
But we have to give credit…when credit is due…
PEACE
“When the former policeman turned telecom mogul ..”
—————————————————
(no comment)
“The American-trained executive..”
—————————————————
(no comment)
“Thaksin was the first prime minister to lead a government through a full four-year term since the country ended military rule in 1976—every other leader was either overthrown by coup, forced to resign, ..”
—————————————————
(not impressed…Saddam Hussein lasted wayyy longer)
“Admittedly, Thaksin was no saint, and much of what his opponents said was true. His drug war in 2003 (in which he rashly vowed to eradicate drug trafficking within three months) killed thousands; ”
—————————————————-
(no shit! like we didnt know…that scamback killed more than 2000 people without a trial!)
“Ordinary people thought he cared about them,”
—————————————————-
(no comment)
http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/1
This article simply confirms what we already know…and yes we have seen the severe violence , the DEAD,the killings…the burning of Bangkok etc..There are few very fearless PJs out there (Nick Nostitz, James N, and few more)but what we havent seen covered yet is the aftermath stories …why?
Is it too early? am i missing something? can anyone link me with what is going on now? the day after, that is? why do i have the feeling that i still cant get the whole picture? i guess the only way is to get there myself god damn it and i cant afford the tickets…
(Can govt/business owners/insurance companies etc seek damages from Thaksin? Mayb this was why R. Amsterdam was hired..
about 16 hours ago via TweetDeck
RT @kraipob: The difference was Taksin had self before country. PM Abhisit always has country before self.
http://twitter.com/tulsathit )
once again go figure…Thailand today…one billion different perspectives,one billion different opinions..
where does the “Truth” stands? What side? The ex mogul, serial killer? The todays ruthless yellow government? That perverted King that owns and operates brothels (with under aged kids) on the side?
AHHH the land of the Smiles..yeah right..Smiles my ass…Poor Thailand sounds more like the land of schizophrenia…
why do i have the feeling that i still cant get the whole picture?
Because you can’t. But I think perhaps this image provides several important clues.
DAH: Would you be interested to see some images of this – of my work of the past 2 months? You told me you’re not doing hard news on Burn but these images are not in that category. I simply began recording what was happening in my local neighbourhood – up the street – and took it from there. The focus is on the people themselves – who these protestors are – and the daily goings on within the protest areas which were fascinating for many reasons. I also feel that people following events overseas may not have gleaned any real understanding of who protestors are and the variety of among the Red Shirts. I have come to opinions based on what I have witnessed but those opinions do not center on favouring any particular party over another. I just see people.
Herve: It is great to have your input on these discussions since you take such an interest in what is going on in Thailand. Thanks a lot! I think you would probably feel more strongly about what has happened here if you had actually witnessed it. You told me to take a break on Facebook but I would rather share what I have photographed over the past 2-plus months but if you would like to take a break yourself, feel free!
Panos: I am intrigued why you have investigated one person – one leader – in your research. And I’m wondering whether if/when you arrive to do a story in Bangkok you will be biased or do you intend to do more research first into the opposition and the history of politics here – if pre-assignment research is your approach?
ALL: I introduced the concept of Ahimsa on here after Gandhi was mentioned. When I think Gandhi, I think Ahimsa. And when I think Ahimsa, I think Gandhi and HH Dalai Lama. When I think Dalai Lama, I think what a travesty of injustice it is what has happened in Tibet. Hope that is okay. Just thinking out loud. : )
ahimsa = what not to love? = peace
Panos: I am intrigued why you have investigated one person
——————————————————
well, because it was obvious that the yellow guy was a bad guy…that was a given from day 1…we see it every day in the news…but, i was just hoping that the other (ex-red) guy was a better guy…i was so naive…but Thaksin is even more corrupted ..my hope was obviously unfounded..Let me repeat myself once again ..i hate to be emotionally manipulated..when we watch the news as a third eye (we) immediately side with the reds because they fight with slings and the government got snipers and bullets..So i needed to see who is behind the brave Reds..who is holding the strings…And to my surprise i discovered a scamback…it was shocking you know…
hoping to find someone like Gandhi or HHDL or Lord Byron or even CHE even ..
and all we find is a corrupted ex cia agent that only works and benefits mainly HIMSELF !!!???From a policeman to a mogul? what happened? since when thailand became the land of opportunity?ohh please!
ahhhhh…Jenny, now that sucks…, right?…And yes im so intrigued to go in Thailand..now more than ever before..and the “smiles” is not the reason why…neither the 10 year old prostitutes that Amnesty does nothing about it…but thats another thing :child prostitution and why NOBODY (including foreigners that live there too) does NOTHING about it?
Ahhh..it sounds more like:
“Land of the PAID Smiles”
to me…
the reason i want to go to thailand is to find out why idealists are so easy to be manipulated by religious leaders and telecom moguls ! Is it them they follow? or do they fight for themselves? was Thaksin just taking advantage of the public outrage sentiment, or was he behind it?and if he was what was the percentage? did the Reds evolve? or did they just manage to lose their leaders so they have to stick longer with the London based mogul? was it a power game that been played on the peoples back ? or was it a genuine public outrage?
these are the questions..about human nature..that nobody seems to be caring to answer…or even examine…unfortunately what i get from foreigners living, working , shooting there so far ,
is a SOCCER game description..
Yellows vs Reds…the game minute by minute…
Yellows vs Reds!! who’s side are you on???? major bullshit!!!! oh i wish i could afford the tickets to go there..im so disappointed from whats coming out ..from the sources…u can learn more from Wikipedia than the journalists that actually live there and cover the events…unfortunately…:(