i am always telling my students and those i mentor that the most obvious and best projects are just at your front door….so it is a concept i endorse and have indeed lived…yet, i need to re-learn it all the time and the subtleties therein…so sure, it was clear and obvious that i would two years ago launch on a drive across country and do medium format work on American Family…keyed off all the work i had done on my own family…good idea, and i moved on it…what never occurred to me until a combo of  the family exhibit in Madrid last spring (which i viewed as a work in progress at the time) and something my son Bryan said to me yesterday, is  that i was indeed “done” with this project after taking the very first picture….after all, isn’t a family album complete even if there is only one picture in it ? how many pictures does a family album make? everyone always asks me regarding projects  “how do you know when you are finished?”….my usual answer is that you just “know”…you  simply feel it is done…

the incredible revelation for me on this one was that i was finished as soon as i started….so, i am done….

in other words it is a movable feast…always a work in progress and always ready to be shown at any time…..for this one there could never be an end and at any point it is finished…i can do a 15 print show as i did in Madrid , or a 100 print show , or a 1,000 print show using the contact sheets alone , or a combo and with hard copy albums and big prints and videos, well, the whole bit……a two book boxed set…one of my own family who i have documented since 13 til yesterday….and the other the med format work of families from all over my country….this of course could have no end internationally once i complete the U.S. work.

my love of family and extended family runs deep…my relationships at Burn, Magnum, NatGeo, are akin to familial bonds (often with all the drama to go with it!!)…that will lead to yet another book (trilogy?) no joke just called “Photographers (i have known)” for i have religiously documented them (i have everybody)  as well and all of my students  and Burn audience etc etc etc…for those of you who have met me, i most likely have taken your picture, right?…..so this work is family as well…

Sally Mann      Charlottesville, Virginia 2008

so, forget all of my pictures of the world ….what will be important is all the work i did “on the side”…the family snaps…yup, those will be IT i am sure….knowing that now makes me wish i had tried harder…but, i guess that is the whole point…i didn’t TRY…it simply happened….

this simple revelation is of course totally a game in my head…nothing physical has changed…nothing has happened…EXCEPT the way i am thinking about something….a something that was right in front of me…yet this,  as we all know IS everything…for those of you who have studied with me, this is a real work in progress right before your eyes….just as Road Trips and Burn have been as well…i am sure you can all see it…and feel it…there is no way to beat that which is organic…authenticity is the benchmark…

as we swing into the holiday season and the end of 2010, reflection is always our mantra….throwing out that which does not work and moving towards things which do….i doubt any of us get it exactly right, but willingness to change and push new initiatives forward is after all our being….

are you finishing something up or starting something new? or both?

yes, my holiday lights are up all year…they  get blown around in the wind, fall down, get skewed, a real work in progress….just like me..

-dah-

2,105 thoughts on “holiday lights….”

  1. Framers Intent

    Nice one. It’s always good to think about things, and re-examine your relationship to the world and the work you do. I guess it’s the philosopher in me that will always champion that.
    I’ve been feeling a similar thing with a project I’ve been working on. I’ve set myself the goal of making a series with a set number of images, but I’m not sure it really needs so many shots. I’m young with photography tho, so the project of sustaining work within these limits over a longer period of time than I’m used to is good for my growth and self-awareness (or photographic-awareness maybe), even if I end up seeing the work as needing less images to stand in and of itself. There’s the process and the, uh, ‘product’ (not sure I’m fully happy with that term) and they can be two very different things. I’m inclined to think it’s healthy to keep the boundaries between the two a bit fluid and ill-defined. At least sometimes.

    I’m finding this site a refreshing and good place to check out. I like that it’s organic and “in-development” continually. Provided you’re clear about that, there’s no problem operating that way. And the world needs more people to just get on with trying stuff out than so much time wasted in planning that never leads to action. Props for pulling this together and creating a community here.

  2. a civilian-mass audience

         
    “By three methods we may learn wisdom: first, by REFLECTION, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third, by experience, which is the most bitter.”
     Confucius

    Hey,nice to see you MIMI(Framers)!

    Tick-tock…time to celebrate…where did I put the lights…:)))

  4. Framers Intent

    Mimi? Hey matey, how’s things? I’ve been meaning to call you but I’ve lost my voice – all I have is a hoarse whisper left. That Confucius quote is very cool – I like a strong mix of reflection and experience, and less of the imitation. But, right now, I like my duvet even more *reaches for yet more Eucalyptus Oil* Sneezing’s Greetings! Uh, I mean Merry Christmas… ;-)

  5. a civilian-mass audience

    I hear you …FRAMERS…sneezing no more…
    Where did I put my lights…oime…?

    Welcome NANCYS!

    MERRY CHRISTMAS…tick-tock…we are almost there…once again…

  7. david alan harvey

    by the way, i shot the picture of Sally Mann at her cocktail reception at Look3 after her most amazing presentation….she now has a full blown retro at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts in Richmond , Virginia if you are anywhere near Virginia, a detour to the VMFA would be worth it….

  8. Lee Guthrie

    Good thoughts on family and projects. Speaking of family photos or videos in this telling: I got a call from a cousin of mine asking for my address. It seems he had unearth some family videos of our family and put them on a DVD for us as a Christmas present. These are home movies I have never seen of my grandfather who has been dead since I was six, me and my siblings and parents in the early 50’s and my cousin and his family. Can’t wait to see it when it arrives.

    Photos of my family are a strong component of my work. I have a very big collection and usually put each gathering or group of shots in a Mac Book for family viewing. I love my family. I love my Burn family. I love my teacher (you DAH). I love the moon; she is so close here I feel like she is part of my family and I have been taking photos of her too.

    Families are our compass; they keep us on course. Without mine I would be lost.

  11. Lee Guthrie

    Panos, will do. The lunar eclipse will be fully visible here too and I think Maui time will be 8:33 for full lunar on Monday. Making it around 12:33 Texas time. We only saw a partial of it two years ago in February so very excited. Have her route all mapped out and hope the clouds don’t move in.

  13. katia roberts

    ohmygosh. did not even recognize sally mann! it’s so rare to see her with
    foofoo hair and lipstick. she is my all-time natural beauty and certainly
    one of my favorite photographers.
    what happened to the photo? why is it all yellow and blotchy?

    “are you finishing something up or starting something new? or both?”

    i’m in my 5th year of a ten year project following 200 homeless street youth who are
    very much a part of my family now and the reason for much of my joy.
    btw, if anyone would like to buy an xmas gift for a street youth
    please contact me at: iamkatia@gmail.com

    DAH–HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! you’re amazing and inspiring. thanks you for all you do.
    and Merry Christmas to all! with Love..

    katia

  14. Paul Parker

    I should have the latest Sally Mann book “The Flesh and The Spirit” just in time for Christmas Eve!
    I would love to see the retro at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts in Richmond. I lived in Richmond from the age of 8 until I was just about 12…never been back since. 1980-1984 long time ago.

  16. Paul Parker

    Eva,
    I´ve got the movie it really blew me away!! Amazing the way she really digs deep into herself to find the inspiration for her work. Viva the Quotidian in life!
    Dream one and two…workshop with DAH and Sally Mann.

  17. Akaky

    “after all, isn’t a family album complete even if there is only one picture in it ?”

    Is a fence painted if you’ve only painted one post? Maybe in the Zen universe, but in the familial universe, a album that doesnt include Uncle Harry is not complete, much as you might want it to be.

    ” how many pictures does a family album make?”

    A family album is made when you have front and side views of all the relatives who owe you money, plus their current addresses and the address of that little place in Florida they intend to skip out to once they’ve taken you for every cent they think they can get.

    “how do you know when you are finished?”….

    When I know I can hand the thing in without a nun hitting me for not doing the work.

    “my usual answer is that you just “know”…you simply feel it is done…”

    I used to use this excuse too, but my father explained to me that things were done when HE felt they were done, not when I did, and so I had to go back outside and finish shoveling the show out of the driveway. He did sympathize about the frostbite, though.

    “for those of you who have met me, i most likely have taken your picture, right?”

    Probably, from what I hear.

    “are you finishing something up or starting something new? or both?”

    Neither. The pointless documentation of our happy little burg continues apace, largely because a body in motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest. So this is all Sir Isaac Newton’s fault, as well it should be. A man who enjoyed drawing and quartering counterfeiters cannot have enough opprobrium heaped upon his head.

  18. Richard Beaven

    David, inspiring thoughts as ever of course. I am both finishing something up and starting something new…..both big…..living the world in the intersection twixt old and new….as you know….

    You’ve always encourage a pinch of the esoteric here and there and so “Intersection” just might be my next work….it is on my door step, at the end of my nose, in my head, dreams and everywhere in between.

    I am thinking on that great premise -that any concept/movie/book can be explained in one sentence. I saw this referred to again the other day. For example: Curmudgeonly weatherman keeps waking up on the same day = Groundhog Day.

    So I resolve to have “Intersection” and my deal explained in one sentence by January 1 2011.

    On that note, looking forward to crossing paths through 2011. Merry Christmas to one and all….and keep those lights Burning all through the year for sure.

    RB

  19. Ross Nolly

    Any major change is always exciting; and scary. I’ve been practising what Imants has talked about recently, binning stuff that hasn’t worked and starting afresh. It is hard starting your entire previous shooting over from scratch and more than a bit scary.

    But the stuff that hasn’t worked is only showing itself because I’ve been fortunate to have started a period of change in my new work. My “Kids” project is about to go through a major pruning, and I am re-thinking its future shooting.

    My decision to give up mag work (to shoot personal work) seems to be working, although it too is a scary process. The entire thought process of wanting to do better work, and then wondering whether you actually have the ability to produce better work is a bit nerve-wracking. However I’ve found that uncertainty to actually benefit the creative process.

    As for family; the other day I was sitting in Burger King having diet coke a (trying to lose weight too!), while waiting for a family member to undergo some medical tests. That morning we’d driven for 5-hours to the hospital and were driving back again that afternoon.

    I was feeling a bit down, hoping that the tests were going to come back ok. Sitting next to me were a bunch of school kids (on study leave for exams) laughing, flirting and joking. The big screen above them showing the music channel.

    Suddenly one of the girls started singing along to Train’s “Drops of Jupiter”. Coincidentally; a song written by the lead singer about the death of his mother…

    It sounded out softly above the general hubbub and all of a sudden I felt very old. It was lovely while it lasted and made me think “That’s the love of life I want to capture for my kids project” But most of all it made me feel bloody good! And the test results came back clear (a week later). :-)

  22. Imants

    Ross it is a dangerous ground practising the death knell game of “bin diving” (skip diving is about recycling). I guess there are not too many that would be willing to play the game of photo roulette.
    With the last book I kept the initial push of 30 odd images just out of curiosity and found that the BIN IT policy is pretty justified not one image remains in my current book I am working on, a month and a couple of hundred later images later I have about a dozen images. I have no aversion to spending a day or two on a image and then just deleting it…….. like walking into the sun and yearning for it to take me away.
    The best part about the process is that I don’t waste time taking photos of things that could be, may be and never will be….
    .
    .
    ………….. early xmas card http://www.etrouko.com/xmas2010.htm

  23. david alan harvey

    LEE…

    one of these days i will pull out some of the pictures i have of you…..when the time is right of course

    PANOS…

    one of these days i will pull out some of the pictures i have of you….when the time is all wrong of course

  25. david alan harvey

    EVA…PANOS…ROSS..

    i know i owe all three of you an edit…there is just no way i can even take a look again until january 2..patience please….you may be thinking to yourself “but it would not take that long”…you are correct…it would not take me too long to edit any of the three of you…but what it does take is exactly the right mood..right frame of mind….the right half hour and i could do it…but getting that right half hour is harder than you may imagine and getting three right half hours will take me til January 2……anyway, you all know it will be done…

    cheers, david

  29. Gordon Lafleur

    David

    “so, forget all of my pictures of the world ….what will be important is all the work i did “on the side”…the family snaps…yup, those will be IT i am sure….knowing that now makes me wish i had tried harder…but, i guess that is the whole point…i didn’t TRY…it simply happened….”

    You have a way with words. You know I share these sentiments. Partly, I think it is because of the age we find ourselves. Our perspective changes when we realize we can look backwards a great deal farther than we can look forward. The meaning and purpose of our lives is still hard to grasp, but family and close friends mean the most.

    Yes, I do wish I had tried harder when I look at some of the family snaps I have done over the years. Group photos at Christmas, pictures of long deceased grandparents, could’a should’a would’a. However, part of the power and value of these snaps is their innocence and un-sophistication. They were done usually without artistic intentions, or for commercial purposes, or for the approval of our photo-peers, but just because.

    I love your photo of Sally Mann. She has to be one of the most exquisitly beautiful women, judging by her photograph, and her photographs. Her family photographs are in another realm. Only last month I recieved a copy of Immediate family and was entranced by the beauty, sensuality, and familiarity depicted. Amazing stuff, amazing life.

    Enjoy your family time over the next week or two. I’d love to see a new dialogue in the new year where burnians share their holiday snaps. Let us celebrate our lives.

    Cheers

  30. Charles Peterson

    Took a great family snap today of my 92 year grandfather kissing his 2 year old great-grandson on the forehead. Means more to me than pictures of dead rock stars. How it should be….

  31. Charles Peterson

    BTW, speaking of binning it, I had a situation this last week where I had to delete some images (some good images, maybe the best of the evening). Interesting ethical dilemma and decided to take the high road. I was partaking in a Lakota Sioux Yuwipi healing ceremony and was given the ok to photograph the altar (rare).

    Except that I wasn’t told until after the fact that I wasn’t supposed to photo a certain part of the altar, of which I had shot the setting up of (essentially an eagle head on a stick). I showed the medicine man’s assistant the pics and even he agreed they were very good… but still a big no no. So I deleted all that included the eagle. Don’t mess with those spirits. Would it be worth it for a photograph (and one you couldn’t even show for fear of repercussion by those in the know – esp the subjects themselves)? I definitely thought not. But it ached every part of me as an artist to destroy what I had just made. What would you have done?

  32. Lee Guthrie

    DAH, as long as it isn’t one where I am throwing a fit or crying or some other weird thing. like the night I showed up for the first meeting of the loft workshop in that skanky dress to show off the tiger tattoo. That was quite a ride to Washington Heights that night on the subway! I have never really liked photos of myself but because of my constant taking photos of others I never object. One of my favorite ones I took of you was in Cowboy’s Bar in Santa Fe the night I finally got the opening photo of my essay. But it is all red because I forgot to change the white balance from day shooting in the bar to interior lighting when the group came in later that evening! But then there is the one of you on the wall at the bullfighting arena, and the one of you sitting in your chair in your loft. When the time is right I will show them…

  34. a civilian-mass audience

    Laughter is contagious…

    ROSSY …you will be the first to give us the signal !
    The party is almost here!
    I don’t wanna miss it…hmmm…if this terminal opens up…

    Any BURNIANS in Netherlands area? I might need a big,comfy couch:))) and wine and some delisH:)

    Tick-tock…I can’t hold it no more…I am waiting for the signal!

  35. a civilian-mass audience

    The photo of SALLY MANN …she looks like our MICHELLE SMITH…
    Oime…
    Chicken broke my reading glasses…

    Tick-tock…I love you All!

  36. eva

    David…

    You do what? Owe me? Ok, let me google that, don’t know the meaning of the word.. sheesh..

    ‘sides.. you already have given me a rough edit, I can work from there, I might be wrong, but I think I’m smart and mostly stubborn enough to get THERE.. once I can go back shooting the thing, which won’t be before some months.. so please, when you get time and mood, do the boys first :)

    Still, need to skype for other reasons sometimes soon.. in the meantime, enjoy the family time, big hug to your mom!

  38. david alan harvey

    GORDON…

    yes, i do know what you mean….i am sure age has something to do with how i am thinking right now…but, the reason i photographed my family and extended family at all ages of my life is perhaps more interesting and less predictable…remember , i was really shooting my family as a young teenager..sort of at the rebellion stage and yet photographing just the same..when i went through my negatives from Off For A Family Drive just before putting them in a bank vault, i realized that what i printed was a small percentage of what i had shot…even i have not seen most of what i have done for i printed from the roll..no contact sheets on this early work until i had it done in new york a couple of years ago..i did skip shooting my family a couple of years in high school while being a fake motorcycle gangster (too bad those would have been great)..and my photography in college was more about me being a serious photographer…my art etc….and then on to newspapers, NatGeo, Magnum etc…

    all during that time, at all ages and stages of my life i continued to shoot family/extended family…i never declared it or did it “officially” as did Sally Mann or Nan Goldin but i was in fact shooting the world around me and taking my family with me on major magazine assignments around the world , a concept frowned upon by editors and unique to this day in our business i think….at no time did i put any value whatsoever on this family work…that is why most of it is totally disorganized…the only parts i took “seriously” were my brothers wedding in 1970 which i photographed voraciously in b&w and same for my son in 2002 , both of which resulted in one of a kind hand made books….

    so, my age now i think does not have much to do with my values or how i view family, but more of a very practical time to get it done NOW sort of thing…and i think i may have told you it was Martin Parr two years ago who saw this family work and told me i had something unique to our craft and that i had better get on it….

    the timing is also right for another obvious reason…those long long magazine assignments that would take up most of a year and my life at NatGeo just do not exist anymore….those excessive budgets are gone….while i am still doing two modest NatGeo projects right now, i would have very little desire to be gone for six months working in Libya as i might have done just a few years ago…so how lucky could i get…the collapse of the magazine photography industry matched my personal creative needs anyway albeit a financial killer…ahh the struggle…always good, always good…

    of course realizing this is no doubt why i started Burn…to try at least to give some sort of outlet to today’s young photographers because i could see they were not going to have magazine careers as did i…my whole balancing act right now is to figure out how to maintain Burn and do the aforementioned work that is before me…..but alas , something to think about after the holidays and not now…anyway Gordon, here we are….all good….and wishing you and your family the most special of holiday seasons…

    cheers, david

  39. david alan harvey

    CHARLES..

    interesting dilemma…but , you did the right thing…i had faced a very similar situation with the Navaho tribe several years ago and got myself in a similar situation of being the only white man in a particular ceremony..same thing…they actually convinced me that pictures did not matter…and i believed them…i have no pictures….do not feel bad about it at all..like you, and caught up in the moment …do not want to mess with those primal spirits….there are other pictures to be taken…we can leave those alone….theirs is an oral history…it works

    cheers, david

  41. a civilian-mass audience

    Whatever happens in the bullfighting arena…stays in the arena…!
    It’s an oral history…it works…:)))))))

  42. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    i know you tried to reach me on skype ..can we chat after the 25th by skype please?? i always like to kick back and relax with a coffee and talk to you, but i will have more time once i get to my mother’s house in colorado…time change is two hours earlier than here, so you may want to factor that in…looking forward to the conversation as usual…

    cheers, david

  43. david alan harvey

    KATIA…

    we should do something else here with your kids…not sure exactly what we do , but let’s do something…maybe just as simple as running your new work…anyway, let’s talk…

    cheers, david

  46. Imants

    I think it is my first slide show so all this photo stuff is still pretty new to me unlike my other activities. It has all been pretty fun stuff……

  47. Lee Guthrie

    DAH, no film was digital. It was so long ago, 2006 I think, the beginning of a whole new way of life for me. The bullfighting arena was in Mexico and Raul was your assistant. It wasn’t a real bullfight, it was an arena that they used to train the bullfighters.

  48. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    great stuff…you know what is funny is that when looking at family/friends pictures, even when you have no clue who they are, they strike a familiar chord…family albums always fun to see…if your own family, then for the memories etc and if not just for the “recognition”….

    cheers, david

  50. Imants

    Thanks
    Paul that’s what it was like on Easter Sunday breakfast we all had to be there, it is an unwritten law ………….. roll some eggs, eat confirmation fish, devour some piragi, generally just be there if possible
    2007 was my last Easter with the family as I usually am away, then another year someone else can’t make it so the saga goes on…………. maybe next year

  52. Paul Parker

    I´ve just had phone call from the school where I teach Landscape work…
    My 21 pupils went to the school direction asking if I could keep on teaching them… My workshop was only meant to last till the end of Dec started at the begining of Nov, it seems they´ve enjoyed the classes so much they want to continue a couple of more lessons!

  53. a civilian-mass audience

         
    “A good teacher is like a candle – it consumes itself to LIGHT the way for others.”
    Happy Holiday Lights PAUL.P!

    Are we there yet? How long do I have to wait?
    The wifi light will be out …pretty soon…
    And the tick-tock sound …starts to get on my nerves…:)

  55. Thomas Bregulla

    Family pictures, .. hm. I have only a few, because when I started photographing more seriously,
    I had no longer a family (only two, quite photo-shy sons). Now I have burn :)

    However, I remember as a child we quite often took the box with the familiy pictures and browsed through them, with my mother telling stories. It was always a nice and warm event.

    I think, I finally found the title for the Business Traveler essay:

    – “Five to nine: The Longer Days”

    Thanks to eva, she was so kind and came up with the idea of 5-9.

  57. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS…safe travels to you too

    …may the travel spirits be with me and with all my BURNIANS…
    I love airplanes,terminals…I love to travel…here in Europe nothing is moving
    White and black, black and white…But I am an optimist!
    I left behind my chickens and my books…my pictures books…
    To Finish old business…to start something new…
    I am Evolving…

    Can I start singing now?

  58. a civilian-mass audience

    Five to nine…the journey never ends!

    Viva THOMAS…
    Bravo EVA…5-9…you are a K-9:))))))

  60. Framers Intent

    Mimi, if the planes are still not flying, you could always document the wait or an alternative quest to reach your destination… ;-) I actually secretly wish I’d been planning this last week – airport departure lounges are great liminal spaces and an extended stay there could have made an interesting complement to my bus series. (Yeah, I never fully switch off!). Hope you get to travel, mate.

  61. a civilian-mass audience

    It’s getting dark …Dark and White!
    FRAMERS…For you
         “I seldom end up where I wanted to go, but almost always end up where I need to be.”
    And mate…check this one…I know, you know…
         “In order to fly, all one must do is simply miss the ground.”
    Douglas Adams

    I want to start the party…shall I wait for the signal?

  62. Framers Intent

    Imants, cool slideshow thanks for sharing that. Reminded me how I first got started with photography – shooting my family with a basic compact back when I was a teen. My Pops was ill with emphysema and couldn’t travel, and all my dad’s side of the fam lived miles away down south. I’d gone to visit them and promised my Pops I’d take some photographs for him as he barely got to see them in those days. I knew the usual family group photos wouldn’t cut it, I wanted to give him a feel for their personalities and make it real for him. Anyway, some of the shots from that are here – http://www.flickr.com/photos/framersintent/sets/72157625513818457/ mostly my sister’s kids in that set, and one of my uncles. Funnily, that uncle shot film on an Olympus and a Nikon, and I remember looking at his lenses and other gear laid out and thinking it was one big visual alchemist’s kit and I couldn’t wait to master it. Film has had to wait, but from that moment I was hooked on photography, and shooting film is one of the “must do’s” for 2011. Finding a way to continue the family shots is another. Nice one for reminding me of all that.

  63. david alan harvey

    PAUL…

    good research…i had not forgotten the Raul mauling, but i had forgotten Lee was there for that as well…hard to forget Lee anywhere, but it all becomes a big blur after awhile…smiling

  64. Lee Guthrie

    I don’t think I was there for that one; it was the year before. Anyway I don’t remember a full on bullfight and Raul getting mauled. Glad I’m unforgettable. It will make it easier for people to remember my name when I am famous!

    My family arrives today! So excited.

  66. a civilian-mass audience

    LEE…i wish you …all the wishes!
    Enjoy every minute…

    IMANTS,
    i just check your family…you have a backyard…but where are the chickens?:)
    I guess you had a big feast..:)))

    can I start now?

  68. a civilian-mass audience

    I need the green light…
    LASSAL,HAIK…ADMIN…

    I am ready …I am waiting for the green light…

  69. Aga Luczakowska

    Great to hear about your “new” project about photographers.. I suppose I am part of it http://davidalanharvey.typepad.com/familyfriends/2007/10/post.html :)

    DAH: “Are you finishing something up or starting something new? or both?”

    I am working on a few project…
    1) BLACK SEA http://www.agaluczakowska.com/#/Current%20Projects/Black%20Sea/1/thumbs
    I am waiting for a summer again :)))
    2) LOST HIGHWAY http://www.agaluczakowska.com/#/Current%20Projects/Lost%20Highway/1/thumbs
    I am waiting to drive my car back from Romania to Poland… i think it’s most important project for me until now… my personal experiences are strongly bound with my photographs
    3) WALKING AWAY http://www.agaluczakowska.com/#/Current%20Projects/Walk%20Away/1/thumbs about disappearing peasant culture in Romania
    4) panoramic photographs from Silesia… http://www.agaluczakowska.com/#/Galleries/Silesia/1/thumbs
    I like xpan, I will continue shooting with it but I am a bit confused… I feel that those photographs looks a bit old style… I think I will continue just for myself to have some record of the place where I am from.. maybe to exhibit it in Silesia, Poland…
    for sure the most personal and most desire to finish is LOST HIGHWAY for me

  70. Ross Nolly

    Regarding projects. If you have the time available; how many work on a number of projects at once? I was thinking of a couple of major projects and 2 or 3 on the backburner for when you happen to be in the right place at the right time.

    Cheers :-)

  71. david alan harvey

    AGA…

    thanks for the memory…and yes indeed you are part of the project….i left a new comment under the picture of you and Lance on Road Trips just now…i did not realize that could even still happen…hmmmm…anyway, you look very very busy..good for you…let me see the first project you get finished…and so very nice to see you here..

    hugs, david

  74. a civilian-mass audience

    oh, before I go…here is my project…its work on progress…:)))))
    KATIEEEEEE…where are youuuuu???????

    i will be away from my desk…for few hours,days,months…
    LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLL

  75. a civilian-mass audience

    My thanks to all of you. You that you gave us “voice”, you who dedicate youself to “us”.
    “LOVE, PEACE & PHOTOGRAPHY” will prevail…

    To all of you : photographers, civilians… we are all citizens of the world.

    THE BURNING PAINTERS :

    AGA AS Tamara De Lempicka
    ANNA MARIAB. J AS Mary Cassat
    ANNA.B AS Timarete
    ANNE H. AS Rosa Bonheur
    ANDREA G AS Maria Sibylla Merian
    AUDREY BARDOU AS Berthe Morisot
    ALESSANDRA SANGUINETTI AS Georgia O’Keeffe
    ARAGO MARIE AS Theresa Bernstein
    CATHY SCHOLL AS Lucy Bacon
    CARRIE ROSEMAN AS Agnes Martin
    CRISTINA.F AS Artemisia Gentileshi
    ERICA MACDONALD AS Heller Frankenthaler
    EVA AS Sofonisba Anguissola
    FRAMERS.I AS Elizabeth Siddal
    GINA MARTIN AS Harriet Hosmer
    HILLARY AS Kay Sage
    JENNY L.WALKER AS Gillian Ayres
    KATHLEEN FONSECA,KATIE,STREET FIGHTER AS Frida Kahlo
    KATHARINA AS Catarina Van Hemessen
    KATIA ROBERTS AS Lydia Emmet
    KELLY LYNN JAMES AS Emily Carr
    KERRY PAYNE AS Violet Oakley
    KYUNGHEE LEE AS MargaretWhiteread
    LASSAL AS Auguste Rodin
    LAURA EL-TANTAWY AS Injy Aflatoun
    LAURAM. AS Giovanna Garzoni
    LEE AS Sarah Miriam Peale
    LISA LOGHEN AS Grace Cossington Smith
    LISA WILTSE AS Joan Mitchell
    MARINA BLACK AS Zinaida Serebriakova
    MY GRACIE AS Lila Cabot Perry
    NANCY.P AS Cecilia Beaux
    PATRICIA LAY- DORSEY AS Grandma Roses
    ROSA V AS Clara Peeters
    SALLY MANN AS Sally Mann
    SOFIA QUINTAS As Josefa De Ayala
    VALERY RIZZO AS Catharine Critcher
    VICKY AS Isabel Bishop
    WENDY AS Marion Wachtel
    WEBB NORRIS WEBB AS Lee Krasner

    DAVID ALAN HARVEY AS Picasso
    MR.HARVEY’S MOTHER AS Maryanna Harvey
    ANTON,THE ANTON AS Georges Braque
    ABELE GUARENGA AS Umberto Boccioni
    ANDREW B AS Henri Matisse
    ANTONY.RZ.AS Paolo Uccello
    ANDREW SULLIVAN AS George Bellows
    ANDRIEW W. AS Matthias Grunewald
    AKAKY AS Roy Lichtenstein
    ASHER AS Pisanello
    JAMES NACHTWEY AS Francisco De Goya
    JOHN VINK AS Salvador Dali
    BILL ALLARD AS William Turner
    BOB BLACK AS Kandinsky Wassily
    BRUCE DAVDSON AS Giotto Di Bondone
    BRUCE GILDEN AS Rembrandt Van Rijn
    BRIAN FRANK AS Grant Wood
    BJARTE AS Edvard Munch
    BRENT.F AS Thomas Eakins
    CARSTEN AS Leonetto Cappiello
    CHARLES PETERSON AS Edgar Degas
    CHARLIE MAHONEY AS Albrecht Durer
    CHRIS BICKFORD AS Sam Francis
    CHRIS HINKLE AS Oscar Kokoschka
    DAVID BOWEN AS Joan Miro
    DAVID MCGOWAN AS Benjamin West
    DELLICSON AS Marx Ernst
    DIEGO ORLANDO AS Modigliani Amedeo
    DOUGMCLELLAN AS Adam Elsheimer
    DOMINIK AS Man Ray
    ECONOMOPOULOS.N(GR) AS El Greco
    ERIC ESPINOSA AS Gustav Klimt
    FRANSESCO AS Giorgio Morandi
    FROSTFROG AS Paul Klee
    GAETANO AS Fra Angelico
    GORDON LAFLEUR AS James McNeill Whistler
    GLENN CAMPBELL AS Jan Van Eyck
    GREG GORMAN AS Botticelli
    HAIK AS Arshile Gorky
    HARRY AS Edouard Manet
    HERVE AS Caravaggio
    IAN AITKEN AS Francis Bacon
    IMANTS AS Mark Rothko
    JAMES CHANCE AS Rene Magritte
    JARED IORIO AS Marc Chagall
    JEFF. H AS Lauren Harris
    JEREMY WADE SHOCKLEY AS Lucio Fontana
    JIM POWERS AS Jasper Jones
    JOHN CLADDY AS George Frederick Watts
    JONI KARANKA AS Valentin Serov
    JOHN LANGMORE AS Maurice de Vlaminck
    JASON HOUGE AS Georges de La Iour
    JUSTIN PARTYKA AS Malevich Kazimir
    JUSTIN SMITH AS El Lissitzky
    KIRIL SUROV AS Victor Vasarely
    KURT LENGFIELD AS Titian
    LANCE ROSENFIELD AS Edward Hopper
    MARCIN AS Jan Matejko
    MARK TOMALTY AS Nicolas Poussin
    MARK DAVIDSON AS Marcel Duchamp
    MARTIN BRINK AS Caspar David Friedrich
    MATTHEW NEWTON AS Brett Whiteley
    MATT AS Worthington Whittredge
    MEDFORD TAYLOR AS Andre Derain
    MICHAEL C. BROWN AS Claude Monet
    MICHAEL COURVOISIER AS William De Kooning
    MICHAEL KIRCHER AS Thomas Hart Benton
    MICHAEL LOYD YOUNG As Paul Gauguin
    MICHAEL WEBSTER AS Marsden Hartley
    MIKE HALMINSKI AS Jacques Louis David
    MIKE BERUBE AS Jean Paul Riopelle
    MIKE PETERS AS Francisco De Zurbaran
    MIKE R AS William Orpen
    MIMI AS Nicholas Hilliard
    PANOS SKOULIDAS AS Gustave Courbet
    PARR MARTIN AS Warhol Andy
    PATRICIO.M. As Carlos Morel
    PAUL TREACY AS Thomas Gainsborough
    PAUL PARKER AS George Caleb Bingham
    PETE MAROVICH AS Norman Rockwell
    PETER GRANT AS Homer Watson
    POMARA(PAUL) AS George Seurat
    PRESTON MERCHANT AS Honore Daumier
    RAMON MAS AS Diego Velasquez
    REIMAR OTT AS Pierre August Renoir
    ROSSY AS Charles F.Goldie
    SAM HARRIS AS Tom Roberts
    SEAN GALLAGHER AS Gu Kaizhi
    SIDNEY ATKINS AS William Blake
    STEFAN ROHNER AS William Hogarth
    STEVE MCCURRY AS Michelangelo
    STUPID PHOTOGRAPHER AS Diego Velazquez
    THODORIS AS Edward Hopper
    THOMAS BREGULA As Max Beckmann
    TIM RIPLEY AS Paul Delvaux
    TOM YOUNG AS Winslow Homer
    TOWELL LARRY AS Raphael
    TRENT PARKE AS Rubens
    VASILIOS AS Frederick Leighton
    VIVEK AS Jamini Roy
    VELIBOR AS Primoz Trubar
    WEBB ALEX As Paul Jackson Pollock
    WROBERTANGEL AS Henri Robert
    SPACE COWBOY AS Paul Cezanne

    In memory of Andrew Wyeth And Masaaki Okada and to all our friends up Here and Up There…!

    LOVE U ALL
    your Civilian-mass audience!!!

    P.S if your name is not up there…My sincere apologies…but one of my chickens
    broke my reading glasses…oups, I am out of time…
    Happy Holidays to All

  85. Gordon Lafleur

    Civi

    Love you dearly.

    Here are a couple just for you.

    Martha herding ducks this afternoon. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/131290705 You may not remmember the duckling pictures I posted for you earlier this year, but here they are all grown up, and having escaped from the duck yard.

    Another Christmas card for you. (gag me with a Hallmark Card alert) http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/131279968 French Creek harbour a five minute walk from my house, and where the Lasquei Island foot passenger ferry docks.

    Civi, thankyou for your always gentle, loving, and positive energy. I hope you are getting to enjoy family this season.

  86. Frostfrog

    Ross – I am ALWAYs working on multiple projects – probably a dozen at a time… It takes me a long time to get some things done, some things I get done right away.

    Civi – you are probably the most thoughtful guy in the entire world… I would give you a good cat, if I could…

  87. bob black

    CIVI ;))))

    THIS IS THE REAL MARINA:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Tsvetaeva

    (how do you think we ended up together) ;))))…

    and, ok, i’ll take Kandinsky…have always been a drunk abstract russian at heart ;))))

    YOU ARE THE HEART OF BURN…

    and our HOMER! :)))))

    HUGS
    b

    p.s. DAVID: I will try to write something proper for your Holiday Lights post…i think i can sing up something ;))…before i leave…..as i type this, Marina and dima are over the Atlantic on their way east…..

  88. bob black

    CIVI:

    if you want a plug into the Black Family, life, i’m sending you a vid….marina and dima are over the atlantic….i’m feverishly scanning negs (late) to send to Oli pin-at…rather, i gotta send one and i can’t make up my mind….so, i’m screaming at the scanner to process my damn muddy negs faster….Wolf Blass at my side….

    but, this is very much the spirit of our family…you’ll see when you arrive…

    ok, gotta run….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwNEl-1XM3o

    later
    hugs
    b

  90. Lee Guthrie

    Had never heard of Sarah Miriam Peale. Had to google her. Portrait painter. Funny. Over past three days have been asked to do portraits for a Christmas Card and a brochure for my daughter and a friend. I am a terrible portrait taker. And it is because I don’t use flash and can’t seem to get in sync with strobe…

  91. david alan harvey

    ROSS..

    you should not be surprised…most Magnum photographers need funding…they have standing because they work on projects they believe in and because they are talented photographers,not necessarily working on projects that someone might finance…Larry almost never does a project that anyone would pay him to do…Magnum as an agency garners often large funding for us to all work together on projects like the AIDS work from last year or the Korea work from the year before, but these are few are far between…we all apply for grants …we all struggle…Kickstarter seems ready made for us quite frankly….what better way to get funding than from those who want to support your project?? Magnum photographers probably do way less commercial work than any equivalent number of photographers…so, support Larry in Afghanistan if you can…he deserves it…and he needs it…

    cheers, david

  96. Charles Peterson

    LEE,

    What does using flash have to do with taking portraits? If not comfortable with flash then just find some existing light, good or bad, and take some portraits. Don’t sweat what you are not comfortable with and do that which you are.

    Best,

    Charles

  98. Lee Guthrie

    Charles, you are right. I have taken good ones in existing light but really needed more with these two. I will get there. “..and do that which you are.”

    Totally socked in with rain and heavy cloud cover so no lunar eclipse. Way disappointed. But family arrived and they are snug in their beds and I’m about to be too.

    Good night to one half and good morning to the other half.

  101. Thomas Bregulla

    CIVI!! :)

    and yes, HAPPY BIRTHDAY to BURN!
    Thanks to David, Anton, Haik, and all others in the background enabling this,
    and thanks to all who actively participate and make this to one of the coolest communities.
    If not even THE coolest community.

    what not to love!

  102. pAtrIcIO m.

    December 21, 2008

    goodbye…..hello
    this is my last post on this platform…..please go now to: burnmagazine.org  
    our “road trips” blog is now simply called  “Dialogue” on the new Burn homepage…all of your comments should be saved, in order as here, and we can continue as per normal….plus we will have many new features…not all of them up yet, but we are working on it….weird, but i feel a little sad to say goodbye here….but, ready to say hello there….

    peace et al, david

    Two years since the above comment! WOW!! 

    I rememeber, as it was posted yesterday in http://davidalanharvey.typepad.com/road_trip/ 
    Two years ago, I used to checked once a week Road Trips, Magnum.com was the page that I found something new with NatGeo (photo of the day). 

    Today I can not stand to not see burnmagazine two to three times per day. (Luckily I have not and I’m not insane with the iPhone, if not…) I think is the case, here of the majority in “Dialogue”
    A year later, a grant to an emerging photographer was released, Alejandro was the winner, with a gorgeous project (Felicitaciones!!!), shortly after a magazine… (I never saw anything called “Magazine” with more than 300 pages, think that “burn-brick-magazine 01” would be the correct name…), a Lucie Award, Interviews in Lens Blog, parties at the loft (hope visit it soon), etc…

    Thanks to all the photographers across the earth, but especially to David and Anton, who made this possible and without asking any money (nor at the beginning, not now).

    I’m self taught, I did not attempt photo-schools, only once at PhotoEspagna (learned a lot), hope will be in a DAH workshop here in Europe, but my school are mainly books, libraries, shoot, shoot, and still shoot, nevermind the camera or the film, but shooting with the deep of the soul is the point.
    Bur since this community appeared…Burn is like going back to the school every day, and being in the classroom, sitting in front of the teacher, hear, see, think, “cogitate” to make the best to move and go forward. 
    One of the best schools in these times, with the big classroom in the world!!

    Thus, a happy birthday and many thanks to David, Anton and everyone else who made it possible.

    Patricio

  103. eva

    Reading comments backwards and mixed up.. hi Thomas, hehe, cool title ;).. Ross, thanks for that link, Larry Towell has been, some years back, a revelation and an eye and mind opener.. Imants, thanks for the slideshow, cool music also, funny..

  104. pAtrIcIO m.

    Hello again!! @All (About “VIVA FREEDOM”)

    I post my comment a bit late … but just now, I have time to write a bit … the cold outside makes me to stay more in front of the computer …

    I think, it would be great to create different rooms. Leaving in the main page of burn the “main essay” comments, and the “work in progress”.

    Below or in the right side, It would be interesting to  have other forums or discussions:
    with titles, i.e.
    – Technical stuff:  lenses, film, body, medium format, panoramic format, etc…
    – Computer stuff:  PhotoShop, Lightroom, Bridge, etc … 
    – Grants, exhibitions, job opportunities and that all this sorted respectively.
    – Multimedia: Videos and web sites

    Like the lightalkers web site (more or less).
    So, if I don’t know which is the best way to push my film, I can simply write my question and started a discussion.
    In this way, it would be less “melange”, not only one Dialogue for everything.

    What do you think?

    Something I do not like … is the small amount of time that remains each story in “Dialogue”, when a conversation begans and get interesting, it’s time to change… I remember Fast Food was quite good… but It only lasted a few days … I think it should be open. The same to “Ability to tell” should be nearly infinite. 
    Always open to discuss questions or ideas.

    Well, again Happy Birthday and Merry X-Mas.
    Hug to all, Happy 2o11!!!

    Sorry for my english…
    Patricio

  105. Paul Parker

    Hi PaTrIcIo…
    You seem to be enjoying and learning just as much as I am!!
    I shudder at the thought of finding…
    -Technical stuff: lenses, film, body, medium format, panoramic format, etc…
    -Computer stuff: PhotoShop, Lightroom, Bridge
    On Burn.
    My very modest opinion is their are enough blogs and websites about these things…
    OK I´m a bit radical on the technical side I hate all the technical side of photography, learnt all I needed at college and don´t really want to think about it anymore!
    Nothing wrong in something coming up about a slight technical question but that´s it.
    I like this idea…
    Grants, exhibitions…
    I don´t know, Burn is special and I wonder how much of this magic is because of the free creative spirit through out this online mag.
    Anyway Happy Xmas PaTrIcIo!!

  106. Paul Parker

    Lee,
    I thought this may inspire your available light portraits.
    http://www.monakuhn.com/
    http://www.flowersgalleries.com/artists/118-artists/3801-mona-kuhn/#/section-work/
    Now the following is interviews and more information just in case you actually like what I´ve linked and you´re short of time for exploring the web!
    http://elizabethavedon.blogspot.com/2010/04/mona-kuhn-exhibition-interview.html
    http://elizabethavedon.blogspot.com/2010/05/mona-kuhn-artist-talk.html
    http://www.monakuhn.com/press/
    http://www.monakuhn.com/static/files/ANGE_1009_p050_.pdf
    http://www.monakuhn.com/static/files/9ColorKuhn.pdf
    http://monakuhn.com/static/files/Cousin_Corinne_p77-80.pdf

    http://www

    http://www

    This is if you persist with flash which is a good thing…
    http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/
    I hope the clouds blow away and you´re just too busy watching the eclipse to see this link. Good luck!!

  107. a civilian-mass audience

    BURNIANS…I love you ALLLLL

    I am stuck in a white terminal…people are upset,sleeping on the floor,
    Empty eyes…You can see the picture…
    But
    It’s our BIRTHDAY…BURN once,BURN twice…you know the story…

    Come on…WAKE UP…it’s our birthday and we are partying…
    It’s our Birthday
    It’s our birthday…

    I hope I am I. The right aisle…but I don’t care…cause today it’s our birthday…

    P.S …regarding the list…you can always exchange…euro,dollars,drachmas,liras…
    Oime…out of free wif

  111. andrew b.

    Eva beat me to it…

    Congrats to Patricia for 3rd prize with Falling Into Place and Anton for Top Finalist with 893-Yakuza..and to all the other winners and finalists…

    More Snow and Ice here….still like living in narnia before the death of the Ice Queen. Ice on the tree limbs doesn’t even melt during the day….

    Good light, all, and may your holiday time be filled with fun and joy and not frustration….

  113. andrew b.

    CIVI…thank you for the mention in the list – will now look more at many of those artists for influence….safe and hopefully un-delayed and un-eventful travels to you….

    PaTrIcIo
    About seeing technical topics on BURN, I am on the side of the fence with Paul …. I would not like that, I think…there are many, many sites with such excellent technical discussions that I believe to bring them here would dilute that which makes BURN special to me….the artistic kibbutz feel, the influence not so much as to *how* to do something technically “right” (is there such a thing?) but *why* to do it, *what* to do….to push each other and discuss those inner parts…

    And while learning lighting from a master such as DAH would undoubtedly be a most valuable experience, I think that I personally would take away good technique but more than that, good artistic “intention” from it…

    That said, those who know me know that I can drift into techie-talk much too easily :)

    PAUL/LEE
    such an excellent example of another part of the value here….a member says “I have concerns/trouble/self-doubt/no idea of XYZ”….and other members chime in with “Hey, check out this and this and this to get some ideas on XYZ…”. Well played.

    On the birthday of BURN…a quote about the definition of Road Trips….posted before but for those who may not have seen it…

    “I don’t know if you meant what you said quite the way you wrote it but you have hit the nail right on the head, this place is AN OPEN ROOM, A party in an open room comings and goings occasional bottlenecks in the doorway, a couple quietly ageing on the couch nodding sagely, someone holding court enthralling all around, then someone vomiting in the pot plant.

    There’s a chandelier in this room and some appreciate its beauty and form, some think it’s just a bloody light, some know how many facets are cut in the crystal centrepiece and which Bavarian craftsman built it, and then some just swing from it.

    There’s a bookcase as well, where arguments, knowledge and opinions fly off the shelves, some are hit, never to be seen again, some come back stronger, ready for more, some look for a long forgotten stash behind the classics.

    Some enter in a frenzy, engaging all and sundry in a mad circumnavigation, naming countries, tearing down cities, building empires –Then, Poof! They’re gone! Some are in the corner staring at the lava lamp.

    Some enter quietly, circling conversations, earwigging, finally finding a group that fits, and joining in! It’s self validation – shit, I don’t suck that much after all! Some are taking a Leatherman tool to the drinks cabinet.

    Some come in desperate that the special someone who will make dreams come true and happy ever after will be a reality if they can just bend the ear of the host, take him by the sleeve and take him off to the bathroom for a special one on one, Some are in the street staring up through the window ,dodging the occasional TV or other white good that is thrown ( photography is solo rock and Roll), not coming up, not knocking on the door walking away, collars turned up, hat pulled down. Some are drinking out of jam jars because someone just broke a tray of glasses.

    Someone’s creating a scene, diverting attention away from the matter at hand, Drama! This room is filling quickly, time to spill out onto the street, who’s turn is it to go down the off-licence? We’re running low.

    There’s someone smoking on the balcony.

    If there’s anything extracurricular that grows out of this, it’s working title has to be “The Open Room “.

    Posted by: Glenn | August 24, 2008 at 01:59 AM
    http://davidalanharvey.typepad.com/road_trip/2008/08/commitment-

    good holiday light and cheer, all
    a.

  115. john gladdy

    A very good showing by many photoraphers featured in burn.
    well done all.
    The winning work is well deserving but the overall standard was very high indeed.

    Patricia Lay Dorsey. Congratulations patricia, a fantastic result for you. I told you at the time ,and I still say, that your opening portrait is a fantastic piece of work, full of feeling and life.

    john

  118. andrew b.

    Speaking of tech talk….would someone who knows how and can explain point me somewhere to figure out how to set up my iphone and gmail account to use a reader to follow burn comments? I’ve never used a reader, so much of that tech-speak is new to me…tried to make it work once and never saw anything, so I obviously didn’t do it right.

  119. Lee Guthrie

    Eva, not sure how my travels are going to fall out this year. Hoped to go to Maine in January (don’t know what I’m thinking with winter in the east). Haven’t figured it all out yet.

  120. Lee Guthrie

    Paul thanks for the links. If the light is available I can do a good portrait. It is when I have to supply the light or the light needs to be equaled out that I am working on. Will read your posts soonest. No moon only cloud cover and much needed rain. sigh.

  121. Thomas Bregulla

    ANDREW B,

    WEB –
    in google, open http://reader.google.com
    log in with you credentials.

    To add a subscription, in the Google-Reader use the button “Add subscription”
    the RSS Address for burn, top-level is: https://www.burnmagazine.org/feed/

    For the comments, use the “Feed for this entry” link (you find it for each essay or dialogue, below the “xxx Responses”, copy it and paste it after clicking “Add subscription”.
    Repeat this for every essay or dialogue, you want to follow.

    Now you have the RSS Feeds via the Web.

    Setup for the iPhone.
    Use a RSS App, like Feeddler. (The free one does it usually, the paid ones give you some more options)
    In the RSS App, sign in with your gmail credentials, it should synchronize immediately which your reader in google.

  124. Justin Smith

    Haik,

    Thanks for the Feedburner link for comments. I didn’t realize it had a separate feed!

    -Justin

  125. Justin Smith

    …and, I just realized that I can star those comments that are gems in Google Reader, so that I can refer to them later. Sweet!

  127. Paul Parker

    Well getting back to holiday lights…
    My very most urgent and worrying photographic goal for 2011 is to find an idea for an essay. At the moment I am totally stuck. I´m using Eva´s 3 short questions she offered and thinking of the many ideas DAH has posted over the last couple of years… but for the moment no such luck. The one and only hint my subconcious has suggested is it isn´t going to be about landscape photography.
    So right now looking within myself and what is sitting on my doorstep.
    Any insight, advice and experience from any of you and DAH will be most appreciated!

    For those of you who have problems in getting down to a daily creative routine may I offer some inspiration: http://dailyroutines.typepad.com/

  129. eva

    Paul, what about putting those questions and suggestions aside and .. well, you have kids, right? Family.. a dog.. cat? It’s the easiest thing (with easy I don’t mean it’s easy to make good pictures, but it’s easy because it’s there, all the time).. holidays are coming up, don’t know if you do the Christmas thing, trees and all that, with the kids..

    Or, no camera. At all.

  131. john gladdy

    Eva. You can almost hear all the HCSP boys and girls sharpening their mamiyas in anticipation. Wouldnt surprise me to find a few of them making the final cut. A dedicated mob for sure…but then so are trainspotters.

  132. Ross Nolly

    Isn’t it great to see all those Burn names at the FotoVisura awards? :-)

    Paul; Re: the essay; What are you interested in? What is right before you? Under you nose, so to speak. Who has an interesting job, story, lifestyle? Don’t over-think it, just start shooting and have some fun! :-)

    I still think Audrey’s essay about her parents and David McGowan’s Garage Sale were great essays. A bit like the current “Mute” essay, storys that are right under everyone’s collective noses! :-)

  133. Paul Parker

    Eva!
    You´ve just given me a very good idea…blessing the animals festivity!! 16 Jan that´s round the corner, now this will be good warm-up short term project.
    Well I´ve been shooting the last two months the kids quite intensely on 35mm Tri-X, just wanted something a little more physical than digital. The first time I ever saw my eldest son when my wife gave birth was through my M6 viewfinder and of course I´ve got the image!
    Eva have you ever been to Mallorca?

    John what are the HCSP boys?

  135. Thomas Bregulla

    HAIK,

    using the comments feed you mentioned means all comments are in the same feed independent from the origin (essay, dialogue). Is there an issue using the feed link in the dialogue session per essay, except one needs to setup per essay?

    (I’m using it this way to have the comments grouped in the respective dialogue, which I find well-arranged, especially with the different threads going on)

  136. eva

    John, what’s a trainspotter?

    Paul, kids on tri-x sounds good to me :)
    You have quite a few things going on one after the other in your place.. now of course all has already been done, but have YOU done it (if that is what interests you that is)? Could be interesting to tie together all the festivities during the year.. to tell it your way.. I mean it’s there, as Ross says, under your nose.. see, it’s all I do, taking pics of family, friends, neighbours, customs, and perhaps one day I’ll can put it all together.. in the meantime I follow the different threads..
    Been to Majorca, I was eleven, and completely in love with the young steward at the hotel.. that was about, ehm, at least a hundred years ago..

  138. Haik

    THOMAS,
    No issues in using per-post comments. I just think it is inconvenient since you have to subscribe to all new feeds as they are posted. Unless you have an automatic way of detecting the new posts and “hooking” them.
    In general the action is around one dialogue post anyways :)

  139. bob black

    BIG CONGRATULATIONS TO MY MAN JUSTIN MAXON! :))))

    As i told him privately earlier this year and then here at Burn when he was awarded one of this year’s EPF finalists, When The Spirit Moves was my favorite essay of the finalists and winners this year. It is such a gorgeous, rich, heart-pulpy soulful song of life (and I know Chester, first hand), but most important it embodies what (for me) is so important and wise about documentary work: to carriage one’s belief with the belief in the lives around….and it aint just because we share a similar aesthetic, but because Justin’s work is not only beautiful and thoughtful but is born of a place with great heart…and he, as a person, has a big gulping heart as well…so happy this morning..

    and big big hugs and CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR PATRICIA….so so happy for her and Falling into Place, as I told her privately, i hope that this fixes more attention on that book of hers and also encourages here to continue…in front of the nose, upon the doorstep….so so excited and happy for her! :))))

    and of course all the finalists :)))

    big hugs around

    b
    …

  140. bob black

    and oh (kick my ass), i forget to Mention CONGRATS ANTON FOR AN AWARD FOR 893…that magazine is on the top of my bedroom bookcase :)))))….sorry, i’m working on 2 hrs of sleep….and 2 photogs coming over for a review/edit in 1 hr and so much to do….

    david :))) I’LL WRITE SOMETHING i promise…not tonight, but shooting for tomorrow night…will try to make it wine-fueled, love=ticked :)))))….and friday, i take to the air….

    ok, running literally

    hugs
    b

  144. david alan harvey

    ALL

    i will be occupied with family activities for the next few days…might get in here for a short comment or two between now and Christmas, but maybe not…wishing all of you the very best holidays…and please know how much i appreciate your participation here…yea, you all make me crazy sometimes…which only proves one thing…we are family to the core

    cheers, hugs, david

  145. Frostfrog

    I realize that in the worlds of serious photojournalism and serious art photography, this holds little meaning, but it feels kind of nice, just the same: My blog has just won the Bloggers Choice award for Best Photography Blog of 2010.

  148. Lee Guthrie

    Yea Bill. Wow. I like your blog a lot too. Thanks for being so faithful with it and congratulations!

  149. Jeremy Wade Shockley

    David,

    I hope to swing through town this evening, perhaps we can catch up at Carver’s. Thursday afternoon is free and clear…perhaps we can catch up then if not tonight. Looking forward to it. Best, Jeremy

  150. Akaky

    “Tonight is the longest night of the year,” said the Green Woman, “and it is on this night that we must awaken our spiritual energy and send it forth and bring back the light of the sun to the Earth, because the Earth is in great need…” And so it went, just before the winter solstice yesterday, as a man made a fire with a bow and a stick, and a woman dressed like an extra in a road company production of The Lord of the Rings intoned the sort of New Age drivel one comes to expect on such an occasion. There were the usual jeremiads against technology and corporate greed; you cannot, apparently, worship Gaia without bashing the shareholders on occasion, and our Green Woman made much of this week’s lunar eclipse and its spiritual connection to yesterday’s festivities.

    Please color me unimpressed. That yesterday was the longest night of the year was the one fact in this woman’s ongoing spiel, and this fact is only true if you live in the Northern Hemisphere; if you live in Australia, it was the longest day of the year and probably a great day to go to the beach and enjoy yourself. In fact, with Christmas falling on a Saturday this year, your average Australian will probably spend many a long hour at the beach with the family, swimming and eating fried chicken and working on the tan while laughing at the poor Pommy bastards up to their backsides in snow in dear old Blighty, content in the knowledge that the horse great—great—great—great—granddad tried to snaffle in London way back in the day was the best thing that ever happened to the family; without Granddad to the fifth power getting caught and sentenced to transportation to the Antipodes, you’d be freezing your backside off now too.

    I suppose this baying at the moon was the sort of thing that impressed the hell out of your average noble savage back in the days when being a noble savage was all the rage, but let me point something out here: my spiritual energy—always a low flame, I will admit—and the spiritual energy of everyone gathered together in that small park isn’t enough to light up a cigarette, assuming you could smoke one during the festivities, much less bring back the power of the sun to the Earth. The reason for this is simple: the Sun hasn’t gone anywhere. What occurred yesterday is that the Earth moved on its axis and from here on out the top part of the planet will be getting more sunlight than the bottom part of the planet. Please pardon me for pointing out that our collective spiritual energy didn’t have a damn thing to do with it; if none of us were in that park intoning New Age drivel, if ancient tribes of Hollywood extras did not sacrifice virginal platinum blondes to the all-knowing moon when the director barked, “Action,” if hordes of refugees from adult responsibility did not strip naked, smoke weed, and howl at the moon tonight, something I hear goes on a fairly regular basis in California’s state legislature, the Earth’s movement on its axis would still have happened. In short, Gaia doesn’t need our spiritual energy to do anything. I repeat, for those of you who are hard of reading, the winter solstice was going to happen anyway. Sir Isaac Newton, a strange little man with an odd predilection for drawing and quartering counterfeiters; a revolting hobby, to be sure, but we all need something to take our minds off our troubles, I suppose; explained how all of this worked in Principia Mathematica some three hundred years ago. He also explained how lunar eclipses happen too, and I hate to rain on anyone’s parade here, but the spiritual link between the winter solstice and the lunar eclipse isn’t a link at all; it’s just something that happens every so often. The last time it happened was 1638 and the next time it will happen is 2094, at which point the kids at yesterday’s get-together will be ancients and can bore their grandchildren to tears with stories of how dumb people were back in 2010. So all of that good spiritual energy you felt while chanting and moving around the big fire in a circle was probably the sugar rush you get when your body metabolizes the jelly doughnut you had for lunch instead of a ham sandwich. Doughnuts are a good thing, spiritually and gastronomically.

    As for the standard denunciation of technology, let me point something out here. Christmas began life as a Roman holiday, the feast of Sol Invictus, the Invincible Sun, which came back to life every 25th day of the tenth month of the Roman year. Once Constantine Christianized the Roman Empire, he saw that he had a perfectly good holiday with nothing to holiday about anymore. Being a clever man, Constantine did what millions of other people have done in the years since then: he regifted. He put the celebration of Christ’s birth on the vacated holiday, despite the biblical evidence that Jesus was born in either the spring or summer; as I’ve mentioned in another context, in Judea shepherds do not tend their flocks by night in the middle of winter on the off-chance that a wandering heavenly host with nothing better to do with their time will come drifting by blasting out Handel’s Hallelujah Chorus in high definition stereo sound. But why was the 25th day of the tenth month the date of the holiday? Because when your most technologically advanced timekeeping device is a sundial, the 25th day of the tenth month is the day that clearly shows the days getting longer. Our Green Woman who despises technology so much only knows that the 21st day of the twelfth month of the Gregorian calendar is the longest day of the year because improved chronological technology can now tell her to the nanosecond when the big moment is going to happen. Without said technology, the Green Woman would be spewing her spiritual energy on the wrong day. On the other hand, I have to admit that watching the guy start a fire with a bow and a stick was pretty cool, but then I am easily entertained. Starting fires this way is a useful skill if you’re a Boy Scout or a Green Beret, but I think I will stick with the microwave oven, if it’s all the same to Gaia.

  154. Lee Guthrie

    Akaky, true. Christmas isn’t my favorite holiday. I like my family being here and I enjoy the fun but the conflict of balancing kid’s proper understanding of consumer goods and expecting gifts under the tree tears me a bit each year. Each year I say I’m not going to do it. Every year I do. I have Christmas gift guilt if I don’t. This year it was about clothes and art supplies but technology is a big part too. One is a camera I’m passing along to my oldest daughter. I have no problem with technology–I would not want to be without what technology does for my life.

    Off to the pool on Dec 22! The beach later in the week when the sand settles back down from the big storm and the sharks won’t eat us, mistaking us for turtles.

  157. Charles Peterson

    Watched an amazing documentary last night, “Smash the Camera,” about the godfather of the paparazzi, Ron Galella. No matter what you think of this guy and his ways, there’s no denying he’s left an unparalleled historical legacy of celebrity in the 60’s and 70’s. His archive is vast, and it’s mind blowing what a tireless worker he was. See this film NOW is all I can say…. (it’s out on DVD).

  159. Gordon Lafleur

    Bill

    Let me add my voice to the congratulations. I LOVE your blog. Someday I might become inspired enough to start my own, but I’m afraid it will take over my life.

    David

    Yah, you don’t get no respect from your own family. Much more co-operation when shooting strangers who are paying you to be there.

  160. Gordon Lafleur

    David

    Love my flannel shirts too, though have never cleaned a lens with one. For my birthday this year Martha gave me fuzzy flannel pants with a draw-string, now when I come home from a hard day, I change the engergy and put on my flannel shirt and fuzzy pants.

  164. Frostfrog

    David – Thanks! Glad I caught you before you left.

    Mike – Lee – Panos – Panos – Gordon, thanks, also. And Gordon, that is a reasonable fear to have.

    Vivek – Being one of the cat people, thank you!

  165. Gracie

    congratulations mr. frog!

    i too have liked your blog.. but these past few have been filled with sad sad notes.
    i thought soul friends made good memories. would you write about them some more?

  167. bob black

    CONGRATS FROSTY! :)))…

    LOVE THE BLOG….not only cause it’s so thoughtful but swelled with love, of the people around you and the stories you sharing…though i dont read it everyday, no time, but i always love the stories and the pics…and again, that far-from-frosty heart that engines it :)))

    cheers
    bob

  169. andrew b.

    FrostFrog Bill!

    Very cool news indeed, congratulations!

    I admire those who can blog consistently, admire even more those who are able to do that and actually have people interested enough in them to read and follow along…

    Social-change-instigating photojournalism? No…but most certainly not insignificant.

  172. david alan harvey

    JEREMY WADE SHOCKLEY..

    do not have your Durango number….i think you leave tomorrow, but not sure what time…i am going to the local Open Shutter gallery tomorrow morn…if you still in town that would be a good time and place to meet…

  174. Paul Parker

    Eva…
    I´m starting to become a big fan of your work… I was thinking about you last night, whilst reading your comment on form versus content in the “advance warning” dialogue. I´d forgotten you are Italian, just shows how fluent your English is.

  175. mw

    Panos, I’ll bring it over here to get away from references to any particular individual. I’ve looked seen a lot of your photos from Greece and quite a few from Venice. I suspect a lot of what I like about you is your unpredictability. So perhaps it’s fair to answer your question with a question… Why no picture of the Acropolis?

    For Bob I’ll reference Bolaño’s 2666, a work that is widely regarded as a historically great artistic achievement. Much of it is set in Sonora. I think I’ve mentioned that I lived there for eight years? During that time I covered a lot of ground and read constantly about its past and present. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t fancy myself as some kind of magic gringo, but it is true that I have some broad and often esoteric knowledge about the place. Bolaño’s work is also about the mass murder of young women that took (is still taking?) place around Juarez, another subject I’ve read a lot about. Yet there is nothing, not a single thing, in that work that I’ve found predictable. My experience tells me that Bolaño’s writing is true, but it’s not telling me much of anything I already know. Page after page comes as a surprise. It’s deepening my knowledge and challenging my stereotypes, not reinforcing them. And that’s a lot of what I look for in great art. Not everything, but a good part… I want to be changed by it. Maybe it’s something like the old Groucho Marx joke about not wanting to belong to a club that would accept me; maybe I just don’t think art can be great if it validates what I already think.

    Same is true for your work David. I’ve looked back through all your NatGeo stuff and am constantly surprised by the stuff you see that I never thought about. I doubt we’d be having these conversations otherwise.

    But again, what I really want to say at this point is: peace, happy holidays, good wishes, whatever gets you through the night, and a happy and productive new year to all… and to all a good night.

  176. mw

    Ok, one more thing, since I was asked a direct question:

    Q: When are you going to post a link to your screensavers? :)

    A: I think it was December 12. ;|

  177. bob black

    DAVID ALAN HARVEY:

    You and I, friends and still-too-young-boys, have been through a swell of madness and shit, love and connection, frustration and need, fight and rib and embrace and warmth, family-to-family, over the last two years and yet look at what has been sustained and has stained into a flowering and imagining of curl’d lip’d waves, protruberant……..we have sustained and we sustain, remain, gather and connect, occassionally separate and bare yet the trust once again. So, in honor of that, I am writing this for you…friend to friend, colleague to colleague, talker-to-talker, son to son, dad to dad….this is for you amigo as you gather in your mom and son’s and get your ass kicked by them in the wide-sky of Colorado and the thinning squelch of Twitter ;))….believe me, i know the feeling…;)_

    for u amigo, man to man….

    ==================================================

    MY PAPA’S WALTZ

    The whiskey on your breath
    Could make a small boy dizzy;
    But I hung on like death:
    Such waltzing was not easy.

    We romped until the pans
    Slid from the kitchen shelf;
    My mother’s countenance
    Could not unfrown itself.

    The hand that held my wrist
    Was battered on one knuckle;
    At every step you missed
    My right ear scraped a buckle.

    You beat time on my head
    With a palm caked hard by dirt,
    Then waltzed me off to bed
    Still clinging to your shirt.

    –Theodore Roethke

    “On the rough wet grass of the back yard my father and mother have spread quilts. We all lie there, my mother, my father, my uncle, my aunt, and I too am lying there. First we were sitting up, then one of us lay down, and then we all lay down, on our stomachs, or on our sides, or on our backs and they have kept on talking. They are not talking much and the talk is quiet, of nothing in partiuclar, of nothing at all in particular, of nothing at all. The stars are wide and alive, they seem each like a smile of great sweetness and they seem very near. All my people are larger bodies than mine, quiet, with voices gentle and meaningless like the voices of sleeping birds. One is an artist, he is living at home. One is a musician, she is living at home. One is my mother who is good to me. One is my father who is good to me. By some chance, here they are all on this earth; who shall ever tell the sorrow of being on this earth, lying, on quilts, on the grass, on a summer evening, among the sounds of night. May god bless my people, my uncle, my aunt, my mother, my good father, oh, remember them kindly in their time of trouble and in the hour of their taking away.

    After a little I am taken in and put to bed. Sleep, soft smiling, draws me unto her: and those receive me, who quietly treat me, as one familiar and well-beloved in that home: but will not, oh, will not, not now, not ever; but will not ever tell me who I am.”

    –James Agee, A Death in the Family

    Six weeks ago, in the middle of the night a call that every parent fears, the night shangled and shingled by the obtrusive voice of someone you don’t know the scent of you telling you that your family, your life is interrupted by the vagaries of life, the swill of a late-night saturday moon scattering calm in bed for the blood and fear of a child toss’d propinquitously by branches of chance….

    “‘is this Dima’s father?”…

    “don’t worry, he is ok, but…”

    how does one begin to explain the rush of heat and dendrite fear that surges forth from that distant voice that beings, benignly, to tell you that your child is in trouble, is bruised and wounded and unsteady, but is ‘ok’….

    is this not the same elemental, primordial, need to race into the night to set the world, wobbly, astraight, is this not the same need to coutenance all that careens past your eyes and ears and limbs, do we not wish to frame all that around us as a measure to protect, as a measure to strike out against all that so quickly disappears, is shaken and taken from us, is this not the same key-stroke that defines our swill and swap….in that moment of fear, a stiffening came, that I would be calm, that I would shuttle out to him, to build, stone by stone, something that would shield him from fear, wall up the collapse of my wife, 20 minutes later,of my wife’s fear…..

    my son was in the hospital after being beaten into unconsciousness, and all I had to further forward was the fact that I had to be calm and to brace that which would always be unpredictable, would always be in front of me, would always remind me of why, reason and rite and ritual and relief aside, i am planted here:

    to be here for him and for her, because i have nothing else to guage the disappeance and standard by….

    later, in front of him, head cut up and bleeding, a ghastly sight removed only by the simple, honest fact that he was, for want of something more deeply discriptive, ‘ok’…bandaged, bruised, bled, he’d awakened, sutured and, like the brave and disbelieving teen he was, unconcerned in front for what had transpired….

    in a moment, i thought, no camera….a stupid, ridiculous graving to photograph him, both the character of the smile of his face, the rivald ferocity of his laughter beneath his blood stained jacket and white-bandaged skull, and in that moment, i felt ashamed. why was it that i wished to photograph him, why was it that I wish to express, to share, what i struggled with….that, i thought for a moment, if only i could render that moment abstract, that I could remedy what had happened to him, what i saw in all that beautiful and pointless contradiction: his wound, his fear, our fear and unnerving, bestilled by his shaking body and attempts to joke, as a remedy for the shock, of what had happened….

    later, walking home, the 3 of us, i kept telling him stories, of my father, of my own silliness, of how ‘ok’ moments pass unknowable…make it rhyme, make it simply beside the fact of what took place….to be, not the nervous, protective father, but instead, the partner, the person who understood that what he was experiencing was, in a sense, a preparation, a letter stitched on his jacket that he too would one day share with his kid…..

    you see, for me, there is nothing so important in photography but the connection with the world surrounding, but with the attempt, even if in failure, to countenace the passing of things, to countenance the disappearance, the joy and sorrow, to photograph as a way of simply articulating that we are small and unknowing, that we a hiding, often, behind our cameras, not from cowardness, but because we have but only a few small, thought vital, ways of singing out against the darkeness and of singing upon the swelling of that which enters our life…

    everything meaningful story that I have tried, failingingly, to tell with a box and swatch of emulsion, was about my family….i don’t, honestly, no any other real way to make photographs…thought I am obsessed by others and lives I am cut off from an intimacy, i want, need to figure out through, not the examination, but the expression of what stood before, what contacted, what made sense or senseless from my own life….

    if i photograph my family (and I do), if I photograph those close to me (and i do), if i photograph the land and place into which i have invested and divested my life, it is from nother greater aspiration that as an attuned attention to speak….to share with what made my life, what still propells me to awaken, to seek nourishment and nuture…..

    it has always been a moment when someone i loved, when some place that i cared about or confounded me, that inspired the need to pick up that motherfucking empty box to click….not as grave reporting, not as artistic licence, not as aspirant need for recognition but for something much simpler….

    this life swells and hurts and confuses and hypnotizes and bruises and breaks my motherfucking heart…..my father sitting on a bead in tears, was the genesis of Bones…my son sitting in a tree, my mother’s voice talking to a buddhist monk in taipei, the curve of the jaw when my wife smiles, and in a moment, sees something alight, memory, shadow, vowel….

    i shall never be more than a photographer of his family…..

    everthing began and will end by my connection to those who gave me tis small predilection….that I love and cherish this life, that i feel sad and yet grateful for the people who have swelled my life into a shape of meaning….

    I am uninterested in whether or not making pictures make a difference…..they do not, but they can tell stories, wide or narcissistic….but, i want to give to myself, i want to give to those who have given so much to me, i want to give my son some small thing:

    that the world in which he inhabits, bruised or battered or beautiful, has given me meaning beyond the stupid vowels and consonants and pictures i’ve chosen….

    but i now no other way….i’m stuck….

    i take pictures of the people around me….because i am nothing without them, m friends, my parents, the land and sky, the scent and sound….my wife and son….

    they are my home, and the pictures are simply postal codes of that….

    that is the meaning, abeit small, of why i take pictures…

    not the doorstep, but the rooms inside of my life….

    the space into which i breath, inhalation, and from which i have gathered their exhalations to feed me meaning…

    without one another, we are dross….

    and that is why i frantically spent time scanning before i depart far across the eastern horizon…

    my son and my wife await…

    the camera is in the bag…but my heart and life are opened to them…

    ambling off…

    bob

  178. Paul Parker

    :)Mw…
    I sense a misunderstanding between you and I. If you found my comment a little blunt I´m sorry I was rushing at break-time between lessons. My interest in your landscape screen savers was Genuine, and I was hoping to have a look on the way back home on the bus.
    Or is it maybe you didn´t like my answer to your comment/question on Sunday?
    Mw I´ve come here to Burn to learn, of those of us round here who actually comment on Burn I´m probably the one whose photography is weakest… it doesn´t matter one bit I will surely try my best to improve. However this weakness may also show up in one´s comments as it surely does with mine. So if you were waiting for a great essay on nature photography you must look elsewhere… I admit I was surprised you didn´t answer my comment on Sunday, hey it could of been fun talking a bit about landscape work but I did realise you were in the middle of a holy war in Detroit.
    So there you go…Knowing that comments sometimes may seem cold and there can be misunderstandings I´m smiling throughout this and I´m as usual in a very good mood even though I´m going to have to wade through all of the 12 Dec to find your link…LOL OK.
    Mw, wishing you a very happy Christmas!
    Paul

  179. Lassal

    Dear all,

    checking back after a much too long absence due to work.

    Before I try to get through the last posts and the amazing work that is up – hopefully in the next days – I want to wish everyone around this crazy, mad, beautiful, menacing, amazing world, enough hope, love and strenght to make it a bit better.

    I wish everyone a merry christmas!

    Lassal

  181. mw

    Paul, sorry, no offense intended. As I think I said before, I’ve enjoyed your emergence as a commenter on burn. Screensaver is here. Not sure how interesting a conversation partner I can be about landscape, or as I refer to it a bit more broadly, nature photography. My ideas are ill-formed. It’s something along the lines of a love/hate relationship for me. As both an artist and someone who appreciates fine art, I’m more drawn to images or objects with deeper meanings. Yet as a person, I spend a lot of time in nature and am more than content just to experience it without a thought in my head. But then I have a camera with me, so I take photographs, which is something else entirely. Then I look at the pictures, often making these little slideshows, which is something else again, something farther removed from the original sensations.

    I cannot speak much about or reference nature photographers. I’ve seen a lot of Jack Dykinga’s, but don’t really like that style of nature photography, or at least have no interest in making a slideshow out of it. That kind of spectacular nature is the kind of thing I prefer to see for myself. It’s just not the same without the air. But at least it’s honest nature photography. The light in his photographs is real. It’s the fake stuff I actively dislike. Especially the HDR. The fact is, pretty much all my inspiration in this area that doesn’t come from nature itself, comes from painters. And painters who don’t typically paint the most spectacular landscapes. I think it’s a greater skill to see and communicate the beauty in the common scenes. And I get more enjoyment from looking at those kind of pictures. So in that sense, I’m glad you don’t live by a national park.

  182. david alan harvey

    ALL…

    Anton and i had a long long conversation this morning…looking through submissions, thinking about what to publish next etc etc…our usual conversation…but what we both want to do in Europe and in the U.S. and wherever we can do it is to have some sort of Burn meeting point with as many of you as we can gather, just to show work in person and with live exchange…we do our best here, but as i read some the comments above i think we can all see that an honest to goodness person to persona exchange and critique LIVE would be really interesting and well just better….

    our internet gathering is always imperfect…it is the best we can do from afar, but as most of you know i prefer up close and personal….so we will make that happen one way or another…

    so, stay tuned…stay warm….stay happy…love thy neighbor …and a good old fashioned Merry Christmas to all in the true spirit of embracing all philosophies and religions…a day of celebration of the goodness of mankind minus dogma and minus commercialization…just a big high five to all of you from uncle David…hope that makes sense….

    cheers, hugs, love, david

  184. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    Good to hear from you!! Of course we can have a conversation about nature I´m sure we both will learn a lot as usual in Burn spirit.
    I´m a bit tied down right now to talk about your images… I did finally find the link but thanks for sending a direct link later anyway.
    Have a look at this
    http://www.cartermuseum.org/collections/porter/
    By the way I´ve been looking at your slideshow for the last 20 minutes and it´s interesting…

  185. bob black

    JOHN VINK :))

    It’s about growing up, at last! :))

    ALL:

    AMBLING OFF TO THE AIRPORT NOW, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND HAVE A GREAT NEW YEAR…

    SEE YOU WHEN I RETURN, HOPEFULLY WITH A POCKETFULL OF PICTURES

    HUGS
    bob

  186. a civilian-mass audience

    Kookoorikouuuuuuuu…

    The journey never ends
    when your spirit BURNS
    Let’s eat and drink and fart…
    Cause life is a wheel
    We are going up and down
    we are going all…around
    That’s why we call it
    The circle of life…
    The journey never ends…
    I know you are my friends…
    Keep searching for your vision
    …it’s all inside your heads
    My BURNING Circle of friends
    I wish you Happy wholedays
    To find your inner soul
    cause the journey never ends…
    Oime…

    I love you All…I celebrate everyday…Hmmmmm…
    Where is the wine?

    don’t drink and drive…I repeat …
    Don’t drink and drive…leave that to the professionals!

  190. Lassal

    CIVI …

    Rodin?! Wow … WOW!
    You just totally made my next year!
    If anyone comes near me with something sharp now, I will expliode like an inflated baloon. :)

    Musée Rodin is THE one single place I have to go everytime I am in Paris. Everything else comes second. Even Paris Photo … :)

  191. Frostfrog

    Gracie – Thank you – and you are right about the sad notes. When I made the announcement of her death, I stated that I would not let the blog dwell there, but the sadness has so overwhelmed me that I have. But I plan to stop doing so now, to the extent that I am capable. If you saw the post I put up yesterday, the one with the scorpion, then I think said something happy there. Basically, though, I think I am going to quit saying anything at all until after I can go through and absorb all my photographs and get back to India. Then I will do my best to put her life back together in the feeble yet powerful way that I think a photographer can do. There will be many good memories, but it will be sad, too. I just do not know how it cannot be sad. But it’s going to be happy, too, and it’s going to make people smile and laugh as well as cry.

    Vivek – that states it all.

    bob – Thank you. That time thing is what is frustrating. Now that everybody can publish, everybody is, and there is so much to sort through and even the rare gems number too many to visit everyday – such as this forum. I always want to keep up with it in its entirety, but I never can.

    But I did just read your writings here. Of the quotes of other’s words, I was most struck by Agee, as it evoked images from my long ago childhood, the literal nature of which my children will never have. In this part of the world, one never sees the stars on nights that warm enough to lounge about on blankets. If you can see the stars, then it is cold. If it is warm and you can lounge and visit through the night, then the night is light and there is no darkness. This too, has its own magic.

    Concerning the quote of yourself, this too struck home and made me wonder what it is in me that caused me to stand even at my father’s bedside, clicking away, as body yielded the fight. He died with his jaw hanging open and I kept wishing that someone would close it, but no one did, and I did not either, because a photographer does not manipulate such a scene. A photographer photographs it as it is. If someone else had closed it, then it would have been true. But those others who could have closed it and didn’t, were they not his grandchildren and children – even as I was?

    What then would have made it a manipulation had I closed his jaw but an honest statement had one of them, which they did not?

    As you might suspect, I have showed those pictures to no one – not even those in the room with me at the time. I don’t want anyone to see them. But I can’t destroy them, either… gracie, as you can see, I am just in a state of being where the sad notes sing… we all find ourselves in this place from time to time.

    But yes, there is still much to smile and laugh about and trust me, I continue to smile. I continue to laugh.

    Harry – I don’t have a few hours, but I will try to remember for when I do.

    andrew b. – Thanks! Maybe once in a little while, I will succeed at throwing in some social-change-instigating photojournalism. While I never thought of it in quite those terms, that was more or less my goal when I started the blog, but just trying to stay somewhat up with the flow of everyday life has overwhelmed that objective.

    Wendy – You, too. Go! Wendy, Go! We here will all go!

    Paul Parker – How do I find your photography?

    Lassal – Glad to see you back. I look forward to trying out some of the recipes that you have come up with.

    Civi – thanks for the comment that you left on my blog. It was just the comment I needed.

    Everybody – Merry Christmas or happy holiday or if it is not a holiday to you, then may it be a worthwhile day whatever it is. “…and a good old fashioned Merry Christmas to all in the true spirit of embracing all philosophies and religions…”

    Well said, David. I hope I can find a way to make it to such a gathering. It will be an interesting experience to meet so many strangers who are already friends. And if it is in Europe, I can give Civi the cat I promised him.

    Not only that, but it will just be a blast – to photograph all those European cats.

    When you get down to it, those are the photos that matter most – the photographs of cats. Photographing cats is the closest that we come to photographing God.

  192. a civilian-mass audience

    LASSAL…you had to be RODIN…
    You breath RODIN…

    You Are Rodin…!

    Hiii…where did you find the list…?:)

  194. a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTFROG,
    You promised…and I will give you a chicken…
    A photogenic one…:))))))))you might change your mind

    Your blog rocks…cause it’s authentic…
    Its you and it feels real…
    Like here…
    When you are ok with you,then WTF…the whole world will be ok too..
    ROCK ON!!!!

    P.S bring it on MR.HARVEY…what goes around comes around
    VIVA the holy spirits!!!

  195. a civilian-mass audience

    LASSAL…
    I love your logistics…

    It’s Night in Europe…
    I am not there…I traveled around,around…
    Good morning My friends
    Goodnight my other friends and my beloved chickens…!

    Enjoy,enjoy…be with family,friends…forget the gifts and the perfect table manners…
    Nobody will remember your Martha Stewart table….but everyone will remember your smile!

    LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLL…free wifi…unlimited…I love America too!!!

  196. a civilian-mass audience

    Safe travels to all…BOBBYB easy with the ambling off…or whatever that means…
    Hmmm…MR.VINK knows… :)))

    It took me 3 days to cross the waters…are you there ERIC?

    What not o LOve..!!!

  197. Lassal

    Hey Bill,

    congrats on your blog award!
    You well deserve it …

    And yes, the recipes are still coming in. As always, things take more time. Now it is the snow and weather in general that is a bit in the way. But on the other hand side I need exactly this weather for my set of images. So that is just how it is. Got one recipe from Morocco yesterday! Looks beautiful in its handwriting, but I have no idea what it says because it came without a translation. :) I have to hunt that translation down now.
    There are still about 10 recipes I am waiting for. I will put them all together at the end and you will get a copy. It might be end of spring though, before I get this done. Just to warn you.

    Thanks for participating … it was during a difficult time in your own life, as I found out later. I hope your found your peace … as I have found mine.

    A big hug – hope to meet you one day.

  199. david alan harvey

    BOB BLACK..

    nobody is able to write about the raw feelings substantiated with life as photography and photography as life as well as you…thank you..Merry Christmas to Dima, Marina, and you….

    abrazos, david

  201. panos skoulidas

    ok , let me tell you what i think about holidays, resolutions, dreams etc..
    when i was young i used to think that the majority of people are NOT strong enough to follow their “dreams”…
    Lately i discovered that its not about strength to begin with..
    Its about “having a legit dream” even..
    In other words a small fraction of people DO actually have dreams and only a minority , a fraction of that fraction, are really trying to realize them, to make them true, honor them, follow them…
    So first , find a dream , and when u honestly find it , then make it happen..
    ok, then, merry XMAS once again..:)

  202. Paul Parker

    Frostfrog…
    I’m in the middle of Christmas Eve party with a load of kids running round me….I was going to send you my congrats but first I wanted to explore your blog a liitle… The only way to show a little respect without sounding false or patronising.
    My little blog is adesirecalledcamera@hotmail.com A years worth of crutches and and burning desire to express myself.
    Merry Christmas and see you next week on your blog!

  204. eva

    Panos.. are you sure it’s not about strenght? It does take strenght to have dreams, not only to follow them, but also to have them in the frist place.. much easier letting decide others for you.. anyway, working on mine..

    Paul, get in touch with you tormorrow.. have fun chasing the kids!

    .. now.. did I read something about a burn meeting point.. a real thing..

  208. david alan harvey

    PANOS…EVA

    one of the things i find when faced with a workshop of say ten students is how few of them have dreams….yes, they have all come to me with serious portfolios and perhaps outsized ambition..but ambition has nothing to do with dreams…many have ambition but no dreams..this always surprises me but after some time now i realize this is actually the norm…i always had assumed everyone had dreams…i think dreams get buried quickly in most people just by growing up in society where dreams are quickly sublimated by authority…my job as a mentor is to try to get photographers to dig dig dig and try to remember their dreams…i must find this key or help them to find it…i am not sure about strength or fortitude or anything else…i imagine those traits as helpful, but not the main nut… but i am sure one must start with a dream, live with a dream, and end with a dream…

    cheers, david

  210. andrew b.

    Panos, Eva, DAH….

    So very true. dreams…and strength not to just have them, but pursue them…

    One of my very favorite quotes, speaks to this, at least for me….

    “If you limit your choices only to what seems possible or reasonable, you disconnect yourself from what you truly want, and all that is left is a compromise.” – Robert Fritz

    And DAH…PLEASE give as much notice as possible for a meet….I would like very much and will do all I can to be there.

    Started snowing at about 8 pm here. Looks like we’ll have a White Christmas.

    ALL, no matter your location and beliefs may this season and year bring you joy and happiness, and lots of good light….

    a.

  213. eva

    Reading DAH’s “i always had assumed everyone had dreams…”

    Me too, quite franckly up to the moment I’ve read the comment above I thought this was the norm. How could one live without dreams?

    Perhaps Panos is right then, it’s not about strenght to have them.. but perhaps about recognition in the first place, and only then about strenght, patience, will, work and faith to follow through? Ahh.. dunno.. and yes, for sure, ambition is a very different beast..

    On a different note, I wish people would stop to post links to books.. sigh.. am kidding of course.. thanks (I think) :)

  217. Paul Parker

    All I know about dreams is to be able to reach an ambition/goal/dream in life you´ve also got to set little smaller dreams or you will never reach the big “one”.

    Faith is taking the first step even when you don’t see the whole staircase.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    If a man hasn’t discovered something that he will die for, he isn’t fit to live.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
    John Barrymore

    Dreams are necessary to life.
    Anais Nin

    Dreams have only one owner at a time. That’s why dreamers are lonely.
    Erma Bombeck

    No one should negotiate their dreams. Dreams must be free to fly high. No government, no legislature, has a right to limit your dreams. You should never agree to surrender your dreams.
    Jesse Jackson

  218. Paul Parker

    Imants…
    As usual I´d love to understand your work!! But at least it always stops me in my tracks and I enjoy every second of it.
    Happy Xmas!!

  219. Carsten

    merry xmas y’all…

    santa brought me sebastiao salgado’s “africa”… relishing it now with a nice cup of coffee. all I can say is “wow”.

  220. panos skoulidas

    Alexis Zorba: Why do the young die? Why does anybody die?
    Basil: I don’t know.
    Alexis Zorba: What’s the use of all your damn books if they can’t answer that?
    Basil: They tell me about the agony of men who can’t answer questions like yours.
    Alexis Zorba: I spit on this agony!

  224. panos skoulidas

    Alexis Zorba:
    Damn it boss, I like you too much not to say it. You’ve got everthing except one thing: madness! A man needs a little madness, or else…
    Basil:
    Or else?
    Alexis Zorba:
    …he never dares cut the rope and be free.

  225. panos skoulidas

    Alexis Zorba:
    God has a very big heart but there is one sin he will not forgive
    [slaps table]
    Alexis Zorba:
    if a woman calls a man to her bed and he will not go. I know because a very wise old Turk told me.

  226. panos skoulidas

    (about marriage as a new years resolution;)

    Alexis Zorba:
    Am I not a man? And is a man not stupid? I’m a man, so I married. Wife, children, house, everything. The full catastrophe.

    (please share this quote with your friends;)

  227. Paul Parker

    Carsten…
    Merry Xmas!Got the same book! By the way you asked DAH a very good about how he viewed images…begining of Dec did you get an answer?…just interested I thought it was a very question and never saw any answer.

  233. panos skoulidas

    “As a child, then, I had almost fallen into the well. When grown up, I nearly fell into the word “eternity,” and its quite number of other words too—“love” “hope” “country” “God.” As each word was conquered and left behind, I had the feeling that I had escaped a danger and made some progress. But no, I was only changing words and calling it deliverance. And there I had been, for the last two years, hanging over the edge of the word “Buddha.

    A.Zorba

  234. panos skoulidas

    “In religions which have lost their creative spark, the gods eventually become no more than poetic motifs or ornaments for decorating human solitude and walls.”

    A.Zorba

  235. Paul Parker

    yes i’m exploiting my family also…3 rolls tri-x already, soon have to bring out digital running out of film. Bigest problem they all try to pose for the camera. I’m off, they all dancing the conga… good images there for sure!

  236. a civilian-mass audience

    I dance with Zorba…Viva PANOS…
    And I love the “I”ll die for you”…
    “Alexis Zorba:
    Life is trouble. Only death is not. To be alive is to undo your belt and *look* for trouble.”

    Wake up BURNIANS…and Goodnight …
    You have been BURNED …can’t wait to meet you All…but I am a handful…
    Hiii…you have been warned..:)))))))))

  237. panos skoulidas

    Merry XMAS everyone…i hope u didnt forget to decorate your tree , i hope you bought new ornaments for your wall…and yes i still love xmas trees and golden ornaments..such a nice custom from a religion that lost its creative spark almost 2000 years ago…
    peace

  238. Lee Guthrie

    “Panos: Alexis Zorba: If a woman sleeps alone, it puts a shame on all men.

    (new years resolution/revelation)”

    So, how are you going to resolve this one Panos?

  239. panos skoulidas

    about love books , or about photography books:

    “I still said nothing. I knew Zorba was right, I knew it, but I did not dare. My life had got on the wrong track, and my contract with men had become now a mere soliloquy. I had fallen so low that, if I had had to choose between falling in love with a woman and reading a book about love, I should have chosen the book.”

  242. a civilian-mass audience

    LEE…some things …better to be left …unresolved…:))))

    I see a message from DAHY under LAURA’S essay…”I’ll die for you”…
    Let’s kickstart our Christmas with a donation…
    Cause we can do amazing stuff…we are all one big BURNING ball…
    Only together …we can do it

  243. panos skoulidas

    “I’m white on top already, boss, and my teeth are getting loose. I’ve no time to lose. You’re young, you can still afford to be patient. I can’t. But I do declare, the older I get the wilder I become! Don’t let anyone tell me old age steadies a man! Nor that when he sees death coming he stretches out his neck and says: Cut off my head, please, so that I can go to heaven! The longer I live, the more I rebel. I’m not going to give in; I want t o conquer the world.”

    A.Zorba

  244. Lee Guthrie

    That’s good Panos. Love is always good now matter the form it takes. Love yourself so others can is also so true.

    Civi, Merry Christmas wherever you are in snowy Europe.

  245. panos skoulidas

    (whispering at jesus’ ear

    “What were we saying the day before yesterday, boss? You were saying you wanted to open the people’s eyes. All right, you just go and open old uncle Anagnosti’s eyes for him! You saw his wife had to behave before him, waiting for his orders, like a dog begging. Just go now and teach them that women have equal rights with men, and that it’s cruel to eat a piece of the pig while the pig’s still raw and groaning in front of you, and that it’s simply lunacy to give thanks to God because he’s got everything while you’re starving to death! What good’ll that poor devil Anagnosti get out of all your explanatory humbug? You’d only cause him a lot of bother. And what’d old mother Anagnosti get out of it? The fat would be in the fire: family rows would start, the hen would want to be cock, the couple would just have a good set-to and make their feathers fly…! Let people be, boss; don’t open their eyes. And supposing you did, what’d they see?
    Their misery!
    Leave their eyes closed, boss, and let them go on dreaming!”

    A.Zorba

  246. panos skoulidas

    love…hmmm

    “This is true happiness: to have no ambition and to work like a horse as if you had every ambition. To live far from men, not to need them and yet to love them.”

    Alexis Z.

  247. panos skoulidas

    about greece and cretan coast (aegean pelagos)

    “I was happy, I knew that . While experiencing happiness, we have difficulty in being conscious of it. Only when the happiness is past and we look back on it do we suddenly realize—sometimes with astonishment—how happy we had been. But on this Cretan coast I was experiencing happiness and knew I was happy.”

    Alexis Z.

  248. panos skoulidas

    (thank you eva)

    Fifth Place: Anna Maria Barry-Jester

    Title: BORN INTO A SAFE PLACE
    Location: India

    Other top finishers:

    Oliver Michael Edwards (sensory impairment), Laura El-Tantawy (suicide among male Indian farmers), Andrew Cullen (winter disaster in Mongolia), David Belluz (self immolation in Afghanistan), and Ryan Gauvin (depleted uranium/Balkan states).

    Anna, laura,Ryan congrats…

  251. mw

    I’m a materialist. Not a materialist in the sense that I want to acquire a lot of possessions, but in the philosophical sense that there is no such thing as magic, that nothing exists but matter and its movements and modifications. Yet I often find it interesting to imagine otherwise. This use of imagination I call art.

    As you probably know, I like walking and I like nature so of course I like walking around in nature, yet I live in an ugly neighborhood in inner city Brooklyn, a place where not a lot of natural nature is available. One of the places I walk most is Greenwood Cemetery. Greenwood was founded in 1838 and contains over 600,000 graves spread out over 470 hilly acres. It’s the quietest place I’ve found in the city and one of the most beautiful. Without graves, it would be one of the best arboretums in the world. A fantastic variety of trees have been growing well-tended for close to two centuries. Several idyllic lakes attract an interesting variety of wildlife. Occasionally I come across a snapping turtle. The cemetery is full of streets and footpaths, few of which go straight for more than 50 meters at best. Several times early on I was unable to find my way out for hours. Those were some beautiful hours.

    Anyway, at some point I started getting a strange feeling that there was something I was supposed to find there. Of course, materialist that I am, I realized that was nonsense. There is no such thing as “something we are supposed to find.” Yet, sometimes I am capable of going with the flow whether I believe in something or not, so I played along over the years, always on the lookout to solve the mystery, to find the thing that wanted to be found. After several years, I don’t know how, but I also came to believe that whatever I was supposed to find was under or very near a beech tree. Although that may sound like a pretty good clue, there must be at least a hundred beech trees in Greenwood. And of course I realized that the beech tree thing was awfully convenient since it’s probably my favorite tree, at least in temperate zones. I always enjoy the radical change in the color of their leaves and the infinite variety in the patterns on the bark. I can always use another excuse to while away the time under a beech tree. So I began concentrating on them. I usually forgot about my ridiculous little search and spent many hours just enjoying the shade, not looking for anything. I was doing that one day, somewhere between meditating and daydreaming, when I laid back, for whatever reason craned my neck and looked at a tombstone behind me upside down. It had my name on it. Of course there are a lot of Websters there, but that was the first Michael and it had some important autobiographical information. I was born in the village of Knarlesboro in Yorkshire England in the year 1838. I gave this information to my father who has been working on our family tree off and on for many years. He thinks it may be an important clue, that that Michael Webster may actually be a distant ancestor. But I don’t need no stinkin proof. Since that day I’ve never had that feeling that there was something I was supposed to find again. In this superstitious, or I should say artistic way of looking at the world, it sure appears I found it.

    My approach to photography is much the same. I asked Paul if he thought that there was any way for a nature photograph to communicate something beyond what one can plainly see. For example, would a picture of a tree in which someone was hanged somehow communicate that tragedy on some subconscious level? Or can a photographer’s intent be communicated without even the hint of a visual clue? Just like with the cemetery anecdote, I don’t believe it for a second. A picture of a tree is just a picture of a tree. I know that in my head, but I act as though a photograph can communicate on these deeper psychological levels, whether through the intent of the photographer or something inherent in the subject. I don’t believe it but I act as though I do. As if the best photographs communicate so much more than materialistically possible.

  252. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    Shoudn’t you do some nature shots in this cementary? No doubt a lot of things in life we can’t explain…yours is one of them.
    Since my injury last year my life has changed 95%…before the injury i used to have a job which had nothing to do with photography. All my free time was spent with camera or family and teaching…always dreaming of being able to dedicate more time to photography since i finished photography at college… then one day everything changed… the injury was meant to last 6 weeks now nearly 14 months still injury and 3 times been through with surgery. I’m taking it as a chance of changing my life and i’m giving everything i’ve got.

  254. Lassal

    MW,
    do you know Sally Mann’s body of work called “Last Measure”?
    I think it is at least partially included into the “Deep South” book. Not sure if it has been published otherwise too.
    I have no link here now (I am on the road), but you might want to google it, because it is specifically about the question if death can alter the perception we have of a place. I have not followed the discussion that followed the publication of this series of images, but I imagine that there was one. I think the work was received with mixed feelings. As always :)

  255. Herve

    David:
    i think dreams get buried quickly in most people just by growing up in society where dreams are quickly sublimated by authority…
    ———————————–

    Then, there are no truer dreamer than I! It’s going to take a lot of work for “authority” to catch up with me, and by then, I will be even further….

    MERRY XMAS, Burn and Burnians!

  256. Lassal

    ohhhh, I just saw by chance that we can actually SUBSCRIBE to BURN?!
    That is awesome!

    Guess I am outing myself right now … yes, I have been away for long… Not unfaithful, but not able to follow closely none the less.

    But I will subscribe right now!
    Probably being the latest of the group … sorry!

    Hmmm … by the way, anybody knows how I can change the 10$ amount without having to subscribe multiple times?

  259. mw

    Am I not a man? And is a man not stupid? I’m a man, so I married. Wife, children, house, everything. The full catastrophe.

    Man, that quote was like a cold slap against the head. My family’s Christmas had just ended when I read it. We start on Christmas Eve with a lazy afternoon of drinks and appetizers. Then we have a nice dinner with a good bottle of wine followed by a Christmas movie, usually It’s a Wonderful Life, but this year Miracle on 34th Street. Then the kids open a present. We open all the presents Christmas morning, then have a nice family breakfast, then it’s pretty much over and I go for a walk, or like today write some kind of nonsense and then go for a walk. Although my extended family is messed up in no doubt similar ways to everyone else’s, my little nuclear family is the best thing by far in my life. I know these things are fragile, but up till now, I married well and the kids have turned out great. A. Zorba’s take couldn’t be farther than my experience.

    Nevertheless, I know it’s not that way for everyone and I am sorry. I know there are plenty of other ways we can find to live a happy, meaningful life. And I’ve lived close enough to the edge to understand that some of us can enjoy our downfall and demise. Unfortunately, all too many people can’t enjoy it either way. I don’t get the sense that a lot of those types hang around here. But nevertheless, it’s a good day to wish everyone well. There are plenty of paths to happiness and every huckster and his brother has a map to sell, but the only real option is to find our own way. I hope you all find yours.

    I feel for you Panos, particularly. I know from experience that southern California can be one of the freakiest places to be on Christmas and can easily imagine that it’s magnified 100 fold in Venice. So I’ll wish you an appropriately twisted Christmas and a ridiculously strange and enlightening New Year. And as I see you progress through your reading list, I look forward to the days when you get to Jose Saramago. I’m guessing The Gospels According to Jesus Christ will be one of your favorite books of all time. Kind of hard to quote though, but here is a good one. It describes when Jesus first meets God, near the end of his time with Satan in the wilderness. Saramago’s sentences run on, to put it mildly, but I think you’ll like it.

  260. dellicson

    Hi all,

    I wanted to let people know that I am renting out my Imacon 646 from my apartment in Boerum Hill, Brooklyn, a short walk from Smith Street. It scans up to 4×5 inches and really any format. I am offering use of it at $25/hr. People just need to bring their own portable external hard drive. I am running a Mac system.

    I will also scan work for people at $7/scan.

    I can be reached at 646-248-9958 or at davin@davinellicson.com

    Best,

    Davin

  261. panos skoulidas

    Michael…ha ha..wait, there is more…especially for the YOUNG like you!

    “You’re young,” he said smiling at me; “don’t listen to the old. If the world did heed them, it would rush headlong to its destruction. If a widow crosses your path, get hold of her! Get married, have children, don’t hesitate! Troubles were made for young men!”
    A.Zorba

  262. panos skoulidas

    appropriately twisted Christmas and a ridiculously strange and enlightening New Year
    ————————————————–
    thank u..best wish ever…
    so how about all of u burnians gonna spend(or spent) this holy xmas day? how u gonna celebrate the jesus’s birthday?
    me first? ok, i have plans! tons of champagne and a hot date with a prostitute;)

  263. Carsten

    Thanks Paul! The book is amazing don’t you think?

    As far as my question for David, no I don’t think there was an answer but I tend not to re-post stuff. I figure he’s got enough on his plate and I don’t want to be a pain… maybe I’ll ask the question again at some point in the future as I’m still interested in his answer, but for now I just hope he’s enjoying some quality time with family :)

  265. david alan harvey

    DAVIN

    Merry Christmas and welcome to the neighborhood..

    CARSTEN…

    i answer all questions that i see..please re-post if possible..do not recall a question from you

    MW…

    probably someone mentioned it to you already, most likely Lassal, but John Gossage “The Pond” a must for you

  266. andrew b.

    Merry Christmas, all. A white Christmas here in Lexington-land…only the 13th white Christmas since 1872.

    I am snug and warm – Santa left a black Burn hoodie for me under the tree :)

  267. dellicson

    Hi DAH,

    I got thrown out of Romania in October and have had to find a new base of operations. I am currently waiting to be allowed back into Romania in February. I tried to get a visa and it was going to cost thousands of dollars, so in the future I will just be allowed to stay there for 90 days in a 180 day period. I had never realized that as an American you cannot just go live in Europe as long as you want as romantic the idea might be. Marriage to a European seems to be the only solution.

  268. eva

    Davin.. unless Romania or the EU doesn’t handle it like the US, where marriage is no reason for unlimited stay in the country per se..

  269. Carsten

    David,

    Thanks! My question was under the “Letter to Friends” dialogue about two weeks ago, re-posting here:

    I am curious what goes through your mind when you look at any given photograph. is there any type of “structured” thought process (e.g. a “check list”, certain criteria etc)? how do you evaluate a photograph?

    Appreciate your insights as always :)

  270. Paul Parker

    Carsten…
    The book is amazing. I love the way you actually see how he evolves as a photographer… how he matures creatively. I think I would of enjoyed the landscape images a lot more if he had shot them with his trusty 35mm or perhaps they shoudn´t be in the same book…anyway it´s just me being fussy!!
    Carsten…
    :) :) It´s all Mw´s fault he made me search for a link to his screensavers, I went to the wrong page and found your question. Somehow I had been meaning to ask you about it last week, I think some of us could learn quite a lot from David´s answer.

  271. panos skoulidas

    panos: damn…i didnt know that romania IS europe!!!??? actually i wasnt even aware its a country…all those years i thought it was just a neighborhood that Dracula lives and thrives…
    panos IRL: cmon man..do u have to prove once again how uneducated u are? Davin either way welcome home!

    Davin..marrying a european is the best thing ever..
    although, unfortunately your real motives are shady (not love related)and saddens me…;)

  274. Paul Parker

    Panos…
    Nothing strong about me really :)
    Just an insane obsession with being creative since I was really small. Went through a little depression a the begining… but soon cured that by pressing by “mistake” the wrong button everyday in the hospital lift and going to see the little kids with cancer on the lower floor. It suddenly makes you realise all aches and pains are a load of bullshit compared to living on borrowed time when you´re only probably six years old.
    As you know there are many ways to begin living again and enjoying every precious second of the day or at least that´s what your photography shouts out to me.

  277. Paul Parker

    Panos…
    I know, I know…. I can tell you are enjoying every book, sunset, sunrise, smile and click your Leica whispers.
    Life is so much simpler once you´ve seen the end in the distance!
    As I wrote to you awhile ago…
    Die to live.
    Some of us have an advantage over other people… we´ve seen the edge. Oh, and by the way my edge had nothing to do with my injury… I saw my edge as a kid!

  278. mw

    “How do you make a picture of that and not overdramatize it?”

    A question I ask myself often, but not nearly often enough. I’ll definitely check it out. Thanks.

    On the topic of love and marriage, my wife and I’s 20th anniversary is in a few days. I’m happier in that relationship than I could ever have hoped, but I still can’t imagine why anyone would get married without some kind of legal advantage. Well, family pressure I guess, but I can’t imagine any really good reason beyond legalities. Certainly in our case, love had nothing whatsoever to do with it. In an ideal world, people’s romantic relationships wouldn’t be the state’s business.

  280. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    you must see this:
    “What Remains: The Life and Work of Sally Mann” DVD, you may find some answers there.

  281. Paul Parker

    “overdramatize it”
    listen to your heart and as long as you are happy and fulfilled, everything is fine. This kind of work is for self-consumption to begin with.

  282. Gracie

    merry Christmas everyone…

    Santa left a new camera in my stocking…

    but i thought he would leave another box i’d wished for under my tree…

    it should have this label on it ” T I M E “, did you see it?

  285. a civilian-mass audience

    Oime…PANOS…the language,watch your language.
    …you see,since English is not your first language…
    Some words don’t have the same impact into your subconscious …
    Hiii…you can use the word ckuf …instead:)
    But what do I know…:)

    LEE…I am away from my Greek desk…I am traveling again…
    I am following the moon…

    Have you ever photograph people suffering from indigestion. Hmmm

  286. panos skoulidas

    Yeah ok ,Fcuk that SANTA pervert..!
    U happy now? I’m appaled by FAT old white men with white beards and red uniforms ..
    And no , I was not molested as a child …
    And I also hate clowns.. almost as much as Santa ..
    And one last thing about that Redneck..
    It’s time to buy a helicopter and stop abusing animals…
    Christians are very weird people indeed:(

  288. Gracie

    you missed the whole point of my post panos… read again.

    and quit being mean at least for a few hours… tomorrow you can do whatever you want.

  291. eva

    Gracie.. over time I’ve learnt something about TIME.. that’s something you TAKE, not something you GET.. the most difficult thing about it is ‘DO NOT FEEL GUILTY’ taking it for yourself :)

  294. david alan harvey

    GRACIE..

    Merry Christmas….and i hope we see some pictures from your new camera….Eva is exactly right…TIME is something only you can create for yourself…all of us have to battle this one every day to distribute time properly…i usually do it all wrong…but being aware of the preciousness of time does at least make me use it better than i would if i were not paying attention…easy to let it slide..wishing you a Happy 2011…and with time on your side…

  295. david alan harvey

    CARSTEN..ALL

    this is your question addressed to me from two weeks ago:

    “I am curious what goes through your mind when you look at any given photograph. is there any type of “structured” thought process (e.g. a “check list”, certain criteria etc)? how do you evaluate a photograph?”

    this is my answer (sorry for the delay):

    this is of course the essence of photography itself…all other elements, choice of subject, the concept, the light, the business, the presentation, all fall by the wayside in importance to the choosing of elements in the photograph either when taking it or when viewing it…the evaluation of the image is IT IT IT…i am assuming here with your question that you are referring to the selection/jurying of a photograph or photographs rather than the actual making of the image, but the answer is essentially the same for both…making photographs requires a certain energy and acuity as does the viewing of photography or at least the judging thereof…

    one must be in good psychological shape so to speak and on the edge and full of a certain kind of energy for both…all systems must be in the “go” position…i find both experiences when in their heightened maximized mode to be akin to magic, sensual passion,and spiritualism…no science or structure to it…no checklist…the idea of a checklist makes me nauseous….basic instinct is it…as in all things…learn some stuff, but your gut feeling is your only real measure of net worth… some might say that viewing is passive and shooting is active, but not for me in the totality of the visual experience …

    of course most of the time i am totally disappointed with both, but the quest for those moments when it all “happens” is worth the wait and the reason i am always excited to get up every morning…

    the microseconds of movement of the eye around the viewfinder and the decisions and timing that result cannot be quantified…this is the photographer’s talent/vision/style at work..whatever acuity one has is manifested in this moment and again is all there is. …and when this all goes right and one is “in the zone”, then i swear it is magic and close to sexual …an experience no way to really describe except as the meeting of the body and mind ….and one that does leave you in its best moments after shooting with an all body apres orgasmic feeling…no kidding….smiling…no wonder i love this art!!

    viewing may not be quite that dramatic, but many have seen me when a great picture pops up on the screen from a students previous days shoot, and there is no way i can stay in my seat…i jump literally out of my seat…i have a physical reaction when i see an image that resonates…

    there is no way to teach one how to be better at this particular aspect of photography….this mini moment of deciding which elements to put where is the IT of photography, music, painting, writing, etc…one can fine tune the end results to fit a particular modality, but one cannot change the actual ability to capture this moment…some golfers have a better instinctive swing than others…they ALL have to practice, yet some will hit the ball farther than others no matter what..this is the same in photography AND in the viewing of photography as well..

    some people just have the ability to take pictures and some just have the ability to choose pictures…everyone can learn certain parts of the process, but as in all arts and sciences as well, not all can be learned in terms of process….all can be improved, but the essence of it , the nut of it, is either there or not there….

    in my experience of watching almost all of the photography masters of our era as well as those who choose pictures and with dozens and dozens of eager students, one can never underestimate innate ability nor realize there is a key to creativity for many who are blocked…still, and this hurts so many wanna be photographers, there are some who literally cannot see pictures…i talk about this with my fellow teachers , editors, photographers all the time…some just do not understand spacial relationships or elements in a visual way…they see the elements, but they do not see the relationship of elements…and i am talking about landscape photographers as well as street photographers, art photographers, whatever…the type of photography makes no difference to any of the above…

    i think i have perhaps over answered your question and digressed a bit…but as i said at the beginning , this is really all there is…to get a hold of this concept, with is not complicated at all, is to understand photography or any of the arts…yes, anybody can take a picture with all the new cameras which do so much tech thinking for you…just as all of us have about 300 words totally under grammatical control if we have gone past the seventh grade….so we all have the tools to write and to take pictures…we all have the same thing…yet, human nature being what it is and the very nature of our being always up front, some will do more with those very same tools than others…it is our nature after all…

    one must be honest with oneself…one must ask seriously “do i have a point of view and do i have a vision” IF one is trying to make a mark…OR, hell just have fun and do not think about any of it…i play tennis to have fun, not to be a champion…most will view photography the same….

    one thing all can do is to literally improve the quality of their lives by embracing all that photography can do..no no no , not as “religion”….just as vision, as experience…a way to see what goes on around you all the time and turn the ordinary into a specialness that rocks your boat, and maybe somebody else’ too!!

    cheers, david

  296. Paul Parker

    David,
    what fascinates me image-wise is how some pictures work and others don’t. All it takes is a very subtle movement on our behalf or on the subjects part and a boring image turns into a thing of beauty… Two images with perhaps 20 seconds difference in time and one is a thing of beauty and the other is just banal picture…and there is no way you can harness that magic!!

  298. Imants

    “I am curious what goes through your mind when you look at any given photograph. is there any type of “structured” thought process (e.g. a “check list”, certain criteria etc)? how do you evaluate a photograph?”………………….best part about a question of this nature is not having to answer it in words

  299. Paul Parker

    Yes you´re right!! I´m sure that´s why I miss so many!!!!!!
    then your state of mind is another influence or your if you dislike or madly in love with your subject it all comes into play.

  300. mw

    Hey David, thanks for the thoughtful answer. Looking at your work, it’s abundantly clear that you are a master of understanding spacial relationships among elements in a visual way. Guess I have two followup questions.

    One, there are various theories of composition such as rule of thirds, golden ratios and the like. I’m sure many of your great photos could be used to illustrate one visual theory or another. Do you think that kind of education can help those with weaker visual instincts?

    Two, I’ve read interviews in which you said something to the effect that when working on a story you always wanted to be the most knowledgeable person in the room on the subject and, perhaps not in the same interview, but I think you’ve also said that when that knowledge finds it’s way into a photo, it makes for a better photo. I don’t know if it was you or someone else who used your photo of the oldest church in Trinidad as an example of combining excellent visual composition with complex storytelling in a beautifully simple masterpiece, but the spacial relationships among the elements of that photo go beyond the visual. Even without knowing the layers of history beneath the imagery, it seems we can feel a presence. Anyway, I don’t know if there’s actually a question in there, or if I’ve managed to communicate the idea I’m after, but perhaps you have a comment on the relationship, if any, between deeper narratives and visual composition?

  301. mw

    Thinking a bit more, I don’t recall much, if any, discussion of color relationships, yet it’s clear from so many of your photos, again the Trinidad church is exemplary, that you have a deep understanding of color theory. Any thoughts on that? Is that something emerging photographers should study?

    Sorry, hate to burden you with questions, obviously no obligation for any kind of detailed reply.

  302. Lassal

    Just yesterday I was confronted with Henri Cartier Bresson trying to give an answer to a similar question as David above.

    While in Paris for ParisPhoto in November, we went to see an exhibition at the Fondation Henri Cartier Bresson. They also showed a film with interviews, but it played so soflty and the room was so loud and busy, that I went to the reception area and bought the DVDs to watch them at home at leisure.

    I was surprised to find a booklet and two DVDs inside, one with a couple of films made by HCB (1937-1971) and the other one with the interview, that I was after, AND some other chapters, including one that showed various contact sheets by HCB! I have to admit that that was IT! Totally amazing! You would go through the images – and you could follow the thought: not yet, not yet, almost, getting there, almost, almost, YESSS! BANG!

    I think, going through these contact sheets – or others maybe from Robert Frank, or William Klein – they all have books out with some of their contact sheets printed – really gives you the answer to what makes a great photograph.

    http://www.maurice-pialat.net/Articles/cartier-bresson/cartier-bresson.htm

    I am not sure if there is an English version, abeit there is a language menu on the disc, only the French version is activated.

  303. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    actually i do agree with you…and i am rarely in the mood or able to answer this type of question…and i rarely do…somehow, maybe because of my relaxing time with family and the nature of the holidays, i was able to be alone this morning, drink my coffee and give it a go…and given the nature of my role here on Burn and in my role as mentor , i think i must do my best …which is of course totally inadequate…maybe just maybe however trying to answer the impossible will give some young photographer at least something to think about..at least this is the hope and the intent…

  305. Carsten

    Thanks for the great answer David. A few thoughts:
    “i am assuming here with your question that you are referring to the selection/jurying of a photograph or photographs rather than the actual making of the image,”

    yes, my curiosity was mostly in regards to viewing/selection/jurying of a photograph, but it’s of course great to read your thoughts on the making of a photograh as well… actually I was mostly curious in regards to your own, very personal “process” of looking at a photograph… I think some people take a sort of “intellectual”, “rational” approach and evaluate a picture that way (check lists and all), dissecting the photograph’s elements one by one, almost clinically, sober… while other people’s response to a picture is more “emotional”, a raw gut reaction, the image absorbed as a whole rather than dissected into its elements… I think you make it very clear which approach applies to you (“i find both experiences when in their heightened maximized mode to be akin to magic, sensual passion,and spiritualism…no science or structure to it…no checklist…the idea of a checklist makes me nauseous”) .

    good food for thought, and I appreciate you taking the time to answer something that may seem trivial to many. appreciate it!

    hmmm more thoughts later, there’s some cake that needs to be eaten with family right now :)

  307. david alan harvey

    LASSAL…

    yes, contact sheets show process and often more imo….at Magnum right now we are coming out with a book of our contact sheets…should be out in the spring i think…mine will be from 20 minutes of my life on one night in Bahia….one of my best presentations to my class these days (did not do it in yours) is to show my whole contact sheet or my raw flash cards on a variety of subjects, one flash card in particular from Living Proof…i have no problem in showing all the mistakes, bad pictures, etc…students seem to find this very helpful…for my upcoming family exhibition i will have contact sheets not only to show process but to be actually the final product so to speak…the IT…sometimes the process is the message….sometimes the sequence of seeing something for the first time is in fact the whole revelation…now i shoot medium format film for the express purpose of this process…i love the contacts sheets more than any individual picture…i have loved the nature of contact sheets always always…

    cheers, david

  309. Mike R

    Looking forward to the Contact sheet book, David: like you, I love contact sheets, one can follow the thought process of the photographer.

  310. Lassal

    DAH …
    great news, the book of contact sheets by Magnum photographers!
    I will be awaiting impatiently :)

    I wished you had shown us your contact sheets in Tuscany though. But our group was so eclectic and huge … Guess there was just not enough time.

    I do not know about others, but for me a contact sheet tells more than 1000 explanatory words by the same photographer. If it is a good photographer, then all I want to know will probably be in there. All the answers I seek. As I am not so really interested in equipment etc.

    The best use for my camera bag so far was that I could carry my dog in it to the vet.

  312. eva

    Lassal, I think you’ll apreciate it.. and absolutely yes to “a contact sheet tells more than 1000 explanatory words by the same photographer”.. one just has to keep the mind open and let it sink in!

  313. david alan harvey

    MW…

    breakfast…then answer your question

    KATIA…

    oh yes rare for me too…all that i describe above is rare…..rare air the sweetest….yes??

    LASSAL..

    Tuscany would have been perfect…that was a normal class…i just did not think of it at the time….

  314. Paul Parker

    Carsten…
    “something that may seem trivial to many”
    No nothing trivial about it in my view…So thanks Carsten and thank you David!

  315. mw

    No hurry, got a blizzard to attend to, then I’ll catch up here.

    I put a hold on the Sally Mann DVD at the local library. Thanks in advance Eva and Paul for what will no doubt prove fascinating. Always appreciate HCB, but not sure what he has to say about color photography? I know he did some, but I’ve never seen anything that made me jump out of my chair, so to speak. Not like the black and white.

  317. Roberta Tavares

    This is a specific case of boldness…I’ll claim for your patience.
    The humbleness commanding the duet: motivation of one wish versus right ways to proceed, denounces the wise artifice:
    – Mrs, just start with “Sorry…”!
    I agree that to offer apologies since initial lines would be the wisest, the easiest, the coherent conductor. A way out avoiding judgments, misunderstandings along lines fitting much better my Portuguese divagations than the struggle bumping into some unintelligible jumbled English sentences I ensure you’ll be victim of. Stopping myself as soon as I face the assumption , to retreat into the cave, maybe it’d have you grateful. I’d dare the acceptance and the rational control of good sense. It’s tempting…I could. I won’t. Not what I meant for today. Not even my nature. I’m not a convenient girl… a battle between suffering and enlightening. The bright side diverging reluctance is the minute you decide to go though fears and limitations, to defy hesitation, stand up for your nature and most important; to find the right focus. I have mine; to forward those verses bellow to David as an impulsive, honest way to return the inspired gifts he’s keep delivering in this brazilian land. To share them with you Burnians , who are being a constant pleasing part of my day, my personal improvement , professional evaluation, targets worthy of admiration, the reminder of what matters prevail…In that way, time to replace “Sorry” for “Thanks “

    -Harvey Has a Gift to You –

    He‘s the character from stories inside his own
    The experiences carrying the shield against weakness
    The end road misleading the providences of disillusions
    The challenge inviting his steps to convenient endeavor of receding
    The harsh missions affected by the deviancies of straight lines of conformism
    If optimism was given the option left as heal for the fierce times
    When times people fall on commitment of the grace of being
    The doubtful human being nature susceptible in one flaw race of simple individuals
    He opts for the realism of what have left to do ,
    The “at least” reticence still shut up to be the alibi for general happiness
    From doing, from experimenting till junkie stage for changes
    Eyes defy insensitive hearts revealing, proposing the inducted self identification
    Hands serving as remote tools for greatness of all the covered masterpiece
    The most complex theme; the permanent artistic altercation: Simplicity …
    The extraordinary pace of the daily views , the outsiders
    If far ..now so close for contrast
    For feeding the anguish of knowing the secret ,
    The common corners ,the tiredness of routine
    The magic on crossroads, extremes molding the extravagance along details
    The curious cultural kicks for attention
    Clock is running, the mirror of the live exposition of the ingenious advice ruling the most special organism: life itself ,
    He’s the boy from stories outside his own
    Possession of the ultimate power …reputation
    Chase the own gifts of his existence
    Opening the box..
    From each morning waking up into days where calendar works in contradiction system Do not warn, do not expect immunization against sadness or some protector to deviate to deal with suffering
    He looks for recognizable gifts
    Transposition of visual approach to reach the emotional alarm where heart can be voiced, tactile, questioned, has to be possible
    Configuring lines from neglecting the restraints of self strength
    Self evaluation and love for questions
    Underlying messages rising in a purpose
    I gotta it. I capture it
    Self knowledge to be in the center
    While new worlds rotating in constant reflex of fears , surpassing the edges
    He’s carrying the gifts and one is for you
    For the boy doomed to polio , that bed and fences for isolation
    Looking the fragility from the small role of impotence
    Scenarios where impossibilities were printed
    Hands suppose to touch him were building his ground to sustain the place he was promised for ,
    The chord to push him to what he was destined for
    He didn’t know yet. They were absolutely sure. He could never fail…
    From the inner alert of survival of counting on his own resilience call
    Options limits the other way, the alternative answer, the easy path on “everything will be ok”
    From listening the decisive “no” and confront the denial
    Waiting his name, as codes of perseverance,
    Opening the road , spotlights on the journey
    Conflicted ,but when “you are young and strong” , it’s all that takes,
    Must serve as compensation for some
    For the boy, that was the time for Harvey ’s revolution
    The gifts coming along his signature
    What can be told in the new way to manifest the world,
    the unique way found to report them
    He’s giving the packages
    For who he’s chosen, for those who have chosen him
    When all that needs is to wrap down and feel yourself fortunate
    He will be there offering, exchanging and fighting for the delivery
    In the name of the son, dad, friend, man and prestigious photographer he met in the streets of his story

  318. Imants

    David one of the processes to answer the question is ………….
    Look at the camera, hold it out if front sideways etc but don’t play with it ie. don’t change apertures, look through the viewfinder, search the menu etc.just take a good look at the camera as an object.
    Now you are ready to go out and photograph, holding the camera body in your hand, not by a strap but grasp the lens or body. Do not raise the camera to your eye at any stage and start taking photos with your mind, compose, play with colour, alter subject emphasis, your own concepts etc. Return home and do something else repeat the process over 3-4 occassions but do not take any photos in between sessions.
    What happens? Why bother? Well a couple of reason.
    .
    One you start to teach yourself how to take photos and are no longer telling yourself.
    .
    The other, you learn to discipline yourself when to press the shutter as the photo you want to take is no longer static the image is alive and transitory in your mind.
    .
    Why grasp the camera and not just leave it at home or on a strap ……… this forces you to stay in contact with the camera both physically and in mind.

  319. Imants

    ps For those that wonder why I use text in conjunction with my photos, one of the reasons is because I want to diminish the audiences response to the image or in some cases force the viewer to place photo into a secondary almost neutral position.

  320. john gladdy

    ” What is the purpose of photography today? Far from the days of traditional film, young people of the 21st Century are armed with digital cameras, laptops and scant technical knowledge. No wet cold darkrooms or rolls of film for them, rather they are tucked up in bed with a card full of perfectly exposed shots and a 15” Macbook to keep them warm. Is it too easy for the young photographer today? Is it valid? And more importantly does it have a purpose?

    The images showcased in this exhibition are all produced by young people aged 16 to 19 years old, and they say as much about the photographers as the people within them. The digital camera has become the new guitar and young people are picking them up, learning a few chords and shaking the house down. The tunes may be simple and the playing less than refined, But the lyrics… oh the lyrics

    There are 6 million tales in the teenage city. Choose one. “

  325. mw

    One of my favorite quips of all time, michael k. Not sure apropos of what in this thread, but always nice to come across it again.

  326. eva

    EPF GRANT worth $ 15’000

    Right here on Burn.

    Easiest grant posting ever, no needs to control links, no way to mess them up.. ;)

  327. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY..

    speaking of words but no pictures….where is a link to this exhibit? sounds interesting…as we have been trying to figure out the content for Circus, you may remember my idea for an under 18 magazine, i just cannot find the “music” so described in this text…show me show me

  328. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    good idea….i always like to find out how other teachers get photographers to think..to get them sparked…you are much more of a real teacher than am i…you teach professionally young children i believe….matter of fact i do not think i am a teacher at all…mentor maybe , or influence, or something positive i hope…i am willing to share my feelings and experiences, but a professional teacher? no…anyway, thanks for this…

    MICHAEL KIRCHER..

    yes, great line…but, what the context? i missed something…

    ROBERTA TAVARES

    i had to read this a few times…in any case, you have done your homework on me more than have i….one never puts themselves together quite the way another astute person might…that took a lot of thought and English is not your first language…sometimes those with a language as their secondary language can say things in a way so so unique…many thanks…and i hope we do meet when i come to Brazil in February….but after all that , i am sure to be a disappointment to you…i am just a regular guy trying to figure things out like everyone else and with more weaknesses than most…anyway, i will try to behave somewhat according to your manuscript…

  329. michael kircher

    DAH…

    Was feeling a bit playful last night. ;^}

    I’m one of those who think a little Laurence Olivier should be injected into any discussion of art or approach to craft. Not to be dismissive, of course, but offering something a little more straight forward.

  330. pomara

    DAH,

    Merry Christmas and thank you for that jewel of a description of
    THE PROCESS. It IS hard to put to words. Just don’t forget
    where you posted it.(Laughing).

    Humbly,

    Paul O

  331. david alan harvey

    MW.

    YOUR QUESTION IS:

    “One, there are various theories of composition such as rule of thirds, golden ratios and the like. I’m sure many of your great photos could be used to illustrate one visual theory or another. Do you think that kind of education can help those with weaker visual instincts?

    Two, I’ve read interviews in which you said something to the effect that when working on a story you always wanted to be the most knowledgeable person in the room on the subject and, perhaps not in the same interview, but I think you’ve also said that when that knowledge finds it’s way into a photo, it makes for a better photo. I don’t know if it was you or someone else who used your photo of the oldest church in Trinidad as an example of combining excellent visual composition with complex storytelling in a beautifully simple masterpiece, but the spacial relationships among the elements of that photo go beyond the visual. Even without knowing the layers of history beneath the imagery, it seems we can feel a presence. Anyway, I don’t know if there’s actually a question in there, or if I’ve managed to communicate the idea I’m after, but perhaps you have a comment on the relationship, if any, between deeper narratives and visual composition?

    MY ANSWER IS:

    in response to the first part of your question, i have no rules of composition in my head when either shooting or viewing…i am sure i have taken a photograph or two where someone with a more academic mind could illustrate just about anything, even applying some of these “rules”…but they would in fact be unintentional on my part…when i was learning photography i did two things…i looked at the work of masters, both painters and photographers, and simultaneously was shooting all the time…so surely some of the so called rules that may have been employed by the masters might have rubbed off on me…but when looking through a viewfinder both then and now , i am just going on what feels like instinct to me….again, elements of style (both generic and the great book by E.B.White) must simply flow…in my case, photography just came to me at a time when i really needed it…a time of my childhood where i was searching for something to hang on to…

    the timing of seeing the visual work of others and having a camera in my hand melded in the most natural way and i knew instantly i had been “saved” so to speak…i also know that not everyone comes into photography in quite this way, and yet their own way just needs a bit of a nudge to bring out the same raw feelings that somehow just came to me…i am not sure anyone really has “weaker visual instincts” exactly but perhaps have just never looked at life in a certain way…and i said life, not “photography”…so in the most basic sense i do feel the best education for everyone, regardless of background, is simply to look at books of great photography and painting, traditional masters and radicals alike..my earliest influences were of course Goya and Caravaggio , the French Impressionists, Frank, HCB,Winogrand, etc..light and mood from the painters and a celebration of the ordinary from the photographers mentioned…as you may see i of course did a blend in the long run …using color to celebrate the ordinary that Frank, HCB, Winogrand etc did not do…pretty easy to see how that would happen given those influences, my time in America, my background etc…all came together…so that was my key..but what i try to find for others is their key…

    the second part of your question about being “the most knowledgeable person in the room” is of course in reference ONLY to magazine editorial photography and the role the photographer can ideally play in the editorial process…the above esoteric approach to my work must be modified slightly to fit into the so called “real world” of publishing…sensitive artists can be thrown out of the editorial planning meetings in a heartbeat where editors have a totally different agenda than publishing YOUR PERSONAL WORK…yet, i have had much of my personal work published by these very same editors…to do it, i learned what it was that they needed for their readers…without succumbing at all to the pure needs of subscribers, i took my personal approach and TRANSLATED it to editors and by becoming the most educated in the room on say Cuba i could serve my own aesthetic efforts and theirs at the same time without sacrificing anything at all to either them or me…

    so i can look at the photograph in one way, and explain it to editors in a way meaningful to them..i.e the Trinidad photo you used an an example….this is not difficult for me…and i have always seen editors as friends and not enemies…i AM very much interested in the history of the Spanish conquest, and politics, and the whole myriad of the very same things that editors appreciated and ultimately what readers either want or need to know…so to explain that picture has having the well juxtaposed black kids representing the slaves who were brought to the Americas by the Conquistadores, the well lit church as representing the justification for the conquest, the horse as representing the army or the method of conquest , is all quite easy, historically accurate etc etc..i DO NOT try to explain this picture , or any picture, to editors from the other angle as being influenced by HCB, Caravaggio etc etc…this is in my head or just in the work and does not need to be explained to editors…they are smart …they can see the picture…the worst thing a photographer can do is to tell an editor “hey look, this is a good picture”…

    i hope this has helped Michael…if i were writing a thesis or teaching this in class i am sure i could make it more clear…for sure , this is the essence of how i have been able to be published with my personal work…not all of it…and maybe not even the best of it..but way closer to what i would “do on my own” had i not had this approach…i think i come about as close to personal as one can get in a mass media presentation and yet still satisfy the publishers…it is always a long and difficult process that i must start over each time…none of the above is a given…different editors, different circumstances….but i will always push my work forward in this way…and i might add that always always there is also a receptive nature from editors who feel you are seeing their perspectives and needs and at the same time doing your thing…no editor wants the norm…they all want to push their own edges as far as possible…those of us who shoot for magazines want to help them do this…in the most symbiotic way….

    cheers, david

  332. david alan harvey

    MICHAEL KIRCHER…

    i often tell students that good people photographers employ exactly the same techniques as fine method actors like Olivier….what do method actors do? they use their voice and their body to interpret character…they study carefully the movements and personality of a character….they BECOME the character…as a people photographer i often to the same..i.e. i might study a fisherman pulling in the nets off a fishing boat…a big boat , lots of fishermen…one of the eleven fishermen is going to be a better character than the others….i analyze quickly….i stick with the one ..learn to anticipate every single movement..eyes, hands, method of pulling in net…where he looks after the fish hit the deck ..how he will react and where he will look after certain movements ..study his character all around…capture “his moment” in the same way a method actor would…think about it..

  334. michael kircher

    DAH…

    I will indeed think about it. Thanks.

    But to be clear, Olivier was pretty dismissive of Method actors of the Lee Strasburg type. He was more of a “just do it” man. The above quote comes from his time on the set of Marathon Man with Dustin Hoffman. Hoffman was going on about his “method” and the ways he embodies the character, the fact that he hadn’t slept for three days or something and it was then that Olivier offered his advice.

    For the record, I, like many in here, hang on your every word about approach and/or philosophy. Take it all to heart. Like Paul O I wish I could remember where all these gems are. But sometimes as the discussions get rolling and the different ideas and processes are offered, the desire to say something like “Have you tried going out and taking some pictures?” is strong. ;^} Again, no disrespect intended.

  335. michael kircher

    DAH…

    I think this quote from you fits nicely with what Olivier might have felt…

    “the idea of a checklist makes me nauseous….basic instinct is it…as in all things…learn some stuff, but your gut feeling is your only real measure of net worth”

  337. david alan harvey

    MICHAEL KIRCHER…

    Marathon Man was a great popular film with both actors absolutely on the mark…who cares which actor believed what?? for those of us just watching the movie, both Olivier’s stated lack of Strasbourg method and Hoffman’s over analysis of “method” just worked…for sure, i am sure both would say they studied character…how they did it or how they psyched themselves up for it, is fun to know about behind the scenes, but makes no difference for the final result…many thanks for the reference..

    cheers, david

  338. a civilian-mass audience

    KATIA…”PHOTOGRAPHY IS SEX!!”
    Hmmm…that’s the quote of the year!

    Viva ROBERTA…don’t worry…when you meet DAH…you won’t be disappointed …
    Just try to stay away from the dance floor…:)))
    But what do I know:)))))))))))))))))))))

    Goodnight to Teena Marie and Bud Greenspan!

    BURNIANS…we are on fireeeeeeeeee

  339. mw

    Hey David, thanks for your thoughtful response, I feel a bit bad, like I gave you an assignment. Sorry about that.

    Interesting how different people think and work. I was introduced to “rules” of composition in some early college drawing class and they stuck with me over the years. I’ve mostly internalized them when shooting but they can be a conscious consideration when editing. And of course to the extent that they are rules, they are made to be broken. Roll out the old trope about modern painters and representative art, knowing the rules in order to break them etc.

    Something in your answer to Carsten made me think of that long ago class and wonder if some photographers would benefit from a bit of that art school kind of visual education. When I studied photography we spent most of the classes looking at slides, both from masters like HCB an Gene Smith and students as well. Although we discussed composition at length, it was detached from any system. More the “decisive moment” school of composition. Never learned a thing about color theory through any photo related channel either, yet so much great color photography is built on that kind of scientific foundation. J-school photojournalism was very effective in it’s way, but it might have helped to spend a bit of time on the art school approach. And, as you note, studying painters.

    I guess that came to mind because of your observation that some people have it and some people don’t. I’m sure that’s true, but I also think there’s a lot of room in between where those who lack the instincts for composition and color can learn the behavior. Perhaps they can never reach the same pinnacles as those who are born with it, but they can definitely improve.

    Anyhow, if you’re not in New York, you’ve missed a great blizzard. And sage advice for anyone who’s never seen Marathon Man — don’t try it with hallucinogens! You might never see a dentist again.

  341. mtomalty

    Panos wrote,

    “fuck Santa..he only left a camera brochure/manual in my stocking…oh wait..there is a hole in my stocking..tiny tiny hole but enough for a leica to slip away:(”

    Unfortunately,that’s the problem you get when using the fishnet stocking the prostitute left behind!

  342. Paul Parker

    michael kircher…
    I am slowly making a kind of DAH´s Greatest Hits and other Burnians… don´t know if any of it will be of any use to you of course taste tends vary with each person.

  343. Paul Parker

    In my extremely humble experience in photography I´m supposed to teach landscape/nature work, but every year I end up teaching my nature classes and hell of a lot more. These kids when they begin my 2 month workshop are half way through their second year studying photography… Most of them have reached this point where they suddenly realize photography isn´t all fun and party. They don´t like their photos and their personal inner critic has kicked in… this happens to me every year! I usually have a few little tricks I´ve learnt from a couple of old friends and my own experience.
    This is an easy one, I use it personally when I´m a bit stuck and it´s as old as the hills…
    SHOOT A VERB.
    I´ve got 21 kids this year…I ask each one to choose any verb they like and write it on a scrap of paper, we chuck all the 21 verbs into a bag and each kid is assigned a different verb for a week. Their homework for the week is to take 25 shots of that one verb…I´d love to give them more shots/week but I know they probably won´t do it. Next week they exchange their verb´s with another pupil until they´ve all tried all the verbs or it´s the final workshop week. Then we put all the verbs on a table and we ALL learn something new! Suddenly some of them realize they are taking images everyday like keep asking them.
    Imants your idea is quite something and I´m going to give it a try with the kids now that my workshop has been extended…Thanks!

  344. david alan harvey

    MW..

    sure Michael, of course some photographers would benefit from art school education…that is why i mentioned studying painters etc…and yes yes many who are not going for the pinnacles can certainly improve…i did not mean to suggest otherwise…as a matter of fact , Burn and my classes are totally intended exactly for this purpose….if i were teaching/mentoring only for the once every ten years super student, then that would be a futile exercise…the joy is from watching someone go to their personal next level..to watch them discover…i am much more excited by this than by anything i see in photography…

    cheers, david

  346. Anthony R.Z.

    Mr. David… I don’t know if you remember me from some of my comments on Burn and our short exchange of thoughts… but I am in New York now… my dream has become true:))… I would very much like to see you in person and have a cup of coffee with you… I am also thinking about going to Brazil in February… I just don’t know how to reach you, and if you are in New York… by email?, phone? or it’s impossible at this time at all? Cheers

  347. mw

    Yes, it’s amazing what you are able to accomplish with your students. I say that from a bit of firsthand knowledge but also from many anecdotal reports from former students. You are the rare person who can both do and teach at the highest levels. Guess I was off on a bit of a tangent from the original comment, which is not unusual,eh. And of course your students are typically pretty good to start with. Somewhere between Carsten’s question and your answers to mine, I had started thinking about people who were either new to photography or not very good at it and how I might go about trying to teach them. Could certainly use a lot of your work. The aforementioned photo, but so many others as well. I particularly like the work you did in Kenya. I think maybe that’s where I was first struck by your technical skill with the strobe. Composition, story, color, technical skill… there’s so much that can be learned from just one photo. Unfortunately though, I’m much more familiar with your natgeo stuff than your personal since it’s available electronically. I need to get the two books I don’t have, or at least look at them again.

    Caravaggio? I woulda thought more someone like Gaugin. Well, for the color anyway. Maybe I see your point.

  349. Imants

    David as you know the older the students get the more staid they get. Sure life experiences have increased so they have a greater knowledge/experience base to draw from but they lose their ability to be flexible learners. It becomes a matter of I want to learn this as opposed to I want to learn. Yes I do prefer to teach and mentor the 9 to 17 year old they are not as gear addicted happy with a camera takes a photographs and sorta looks good. It is great to walk into a place where photographers are not looking at each others gear.

    The biggest problem for some here is to figure out what sort of photography are they wanting to be involved in. One cannot apply the same processes to images destined for an essay as they do for a series of singles just as there is a great divide between images destined for print and those destined for the wwwdotworld.
    Basically if you want to create essays that are destined to places like burn etc it is time to stop thinking as a a photographer and realign your image making. This means intentionally creating weak images who’s roles are merely to tie an essay together as a single unit of work. The trouble is that though the general public doesn’t mind and are more likely to see all the photos within the essay as part of the whole, the so traditionally schooled photographer as audience sees it as a weakness and nit picks at technique.

  350. john gladdy

    “”Basically if you want to create essays that are destined to places like burn etc it is time to stop thinking as a a photographer and realign your image making. This means intentionally creating weak images who’s roles are merely to tie an essay together as a single unit of work””….One of the funniest pieces of nonsense ive read on the web in ages.

  353. Imants

    No it’s not nonsense it is just that you are a closed mind and lack understanding how singles work, considering that you do film work and within that structure create quiet periods of non activity I am surprised with your childish remark

  355. panos skoulidas

    think of jesus for example…(according to u) He was very violent and absolutely mean when he destroyed those merchants kiosks in the temple…according to me he had every right to be pissed off and angry and violent and breaking things in a rock star way…and god was extremely angry turning people into Salt just because they were partying in that Sodoma & Gomora (Las Vegas) strip club …sorry Gracie but christianity is a very violent religion and i have every right to assume that Santa is a lame pervert..
    (cmon smile)..there is a little secret, they call it “sense of humor” and its not cheap…nor Santa carries it either ..:(

  356. john gladdy

    IMANTS. You should never be suprised at my childishness.
    I have no idea what ‘quiet periods of non activity’ means. I just make pictures, I dont dress them up with fancy statements. For better or worse.
    The piano piece is a different animal altogether. Three seperate mediums cobbled together in the service of a pay check :) …and yes ‘a lot of weak non’ as you say.

  362. david alan harvey

    ANTHONY RZ…

    unfortunately i am not in new york at the moment…will not be there until mid january most likely , although there could be the surprise trip…how long do you stay? in any case, should our time coincide, i would be pleased to meet you…best way to find me off of Burn is david@burnmagazine.org i do hope this works out…

    cheers, david

  363. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    are you assuming that “older” photographers (17-35) are going to automatically get wrapped up as gear heads?…maybe some do…but, that has never been anything i have ever had to deal with at all…i espouse minimalism as you know in any case..besides your 17 yr old students become 21 yr old photogs almost overnight anyway and i think the gear obsession is one thing and the limits on creativity quite another…so while most put a premium on youth and i surely love the creativity inherent in the very young, i hardly think we should automatically give up on creativity after one reaches drinking/voting age…and where would you like photographers essays to end up exactly?? or should our readers here give up and just stop shooting? or what? i am just not hearing an alternate objective …or did i miss your point?? i do not think you have ever heard me say nor suggest that Burn was the ultimate outlet for photography….we are only a meeting ground…the place for photography is still most likely books, exhibitions etc and surely you see me pushing everyone here in that direction…some of the mobile devices could change that of course, and i think anything that anyone is thinking about the final resting place for their work or type of work intended , is certainly potentially welcomed or endorsed here…i see no limits for work presented here, including anything new and innovative you have to lay on the table at any time…looking for the edge amigo, looking for the edge…

    cheers, david

  364. Imants

    No I am not assuming and do know most are not……. I am just stating that the younger brigade hit the camera and there is a greater degree of innocence and learning without boundaries.

  366. john gladdy

    And there was me thinking that the boundaries of learning were set more by the limits of the teacher than the age of the pupil……just as well that i have no idea or who knows where things could end up.

    Still thats what you get for being gung-ho I guess, although I had no idea that I was chinese.

    Rest assured though that as soon as I know what IT is I will take my hand off of it immediately.

    …
    EVA. Sorry to sandwich you between christmas pleasantries, that looks like a wortwhile event.

    john

  368. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    well yes….and this of course is why i was thinking about Circus …and why i asked John to put me on to that group in London he discovered for us…and why i would encourage you to put forth any promising students you may have…we are open open open for the very young right here on Burn…we do have to be careful with anything to do with minors on any level of course, but i think with the proper acknowledgment from either schools, parent teacher associations, or the parents approval then we are fine…anyway whenever i go to an elementary school and see the art work on the walls i am amazed by what kids do just naturally….at the same time it seems to be that another very creative stage is early twenties…i get some of my very best essays in my classes particularly from women in their late teens , early twenties…HOWEVER, many of these same students lose this bit of magic soon thereafter..i do not know why…most likely other interests take over..but the most significant totally brilliant work can come at any time…yes, usually with the young, but not always…many of the young super talents and enthusiasts lose every damn thing when they hit 30 more or less…jobs, family, earning a living etc…IF one can get past that 30 mark and still be creative, then the juices can really flow…and some who are 50+ and have the time and energy to really work on something do the very very best…wisdom plus energy does indeed count for something…i believe my man that you are good example….

    cheers, david

  369. mw

    I’ve seen a lot of photos taken by teens over the past few years between my daughter and her friends taking photography classes at an art oriented high school and kids I know at an inner city school clicking away with their cell phones and cheap digital cameras. I’m not surprised that you have trouble finding interesting content for Circus. After the issue on how kids like to pose, the content will become increasingly hard to find.

    Of course by the thousand monkeys typing principle, anyone can get lucky on a shot here or there. But from what I’ve seen, great education, or at least an attitude of striving for a great education, is a pre-req for great photography and I don’t see a lot of that in teens. Some from the art school crowd, maybe. But young adults in their early twenties, sure. Those are typically the years when Art matters most. That, and showing the old fools how lame they’ve become. Still, it typically takes years to see enough to be able to recognize that your brilliant idea has been thought and executed in a similar manner a thousand times before.

  370. david alan harvey

    PAUL PARKER…

    good on you for working with young photographers….to be commended for sure…but frankly i am not so impressed by “exercises” for young students…there is a whole long list of things teachers in photo classes always have students do…and yes it is fun for a day or whatever, but i really really think the young are capable of something much much more than playing games….why not have your students actually do something significant?…if your goal for example is to have them document life around them, why not have them just do it ? why perhaps waste energy on photo pushups, when they might just be ready to run? kinda like giving a kid a guitar and say “hey, pick your favorite song and just play it” rather than have the same kid learn notes or play chopsticks on the piano..for heavens sake , they are totally capable of going out and taking real pictures with real results!! best way for you to think about this is to study the original Shooting Back by Jim Hubbard in Washington D.C. for inner city youth, or our very own Emily Schiffer (see her Burn essay) and her work with Native American children…she shoots them, they shoot their culture….sure these young students should be having fun..but i honestly think they can and will have even more “fun” when they realize what photography can do in their lives, not just as an exercise or game…just a thought…we should discuss more on skype or by private email if you are interested…

    cheers, david

  371. Paul Parker

    David…
    Every single word you’ve said is absolutely true! But you must understand these kids begin my workshop usually “slightly burnt out” , to put it politely. They only pick their camera for homework, they´ve never associated the camera as being their life…like you do, I and I believe all the other die Hard Burnians round here. But they all love photography… some have amazing ambitions in this world but don´t know how to go about it. I´ve got 3 girls in the class who admitted the only reason they haven´t given up school this year is because of my lessons and enthusiasm.
    So I´ve always got to fix this problem in eight weeks… These little exercises are an easy way to “warm up”, get them used to going out and shooting images. A little idea which just isn´t too big to block them, every single day, full of fun and no dreading how difficult the homework is…Usually they end up having a camera always with them and it turns into their little diary.
    So my latest “crazy idea” which I suggested two weeks ago to both classes is to meet once a week on my own with one student, at a local bar one to one and work on their photography, their weaknesses, dreams and of course find them a project. I´m doing all this, out of the kindness of my heart, totally independent from school, absolutely bloody free. All great fun and as usual a very rewarding experience with the added plus of making a friend for life!! OK I can´t help it, I just can´t sit there teaching them without caring for them. I´ve been a very lucky student, throughout my life I´ve had amazing teachers at school, college and in photography and I include YOU DAVID also. So I will always give back 110%. I wouldn´t feel right if I didn´t Burn out for them!
    One point I want to make sure is understood, this school I teach at is brilliant. I´m always referring to that something little else…between trying to be average/good and at least trying 110% Pupil and Teacher.
    David it would be a great pleasure talking on Skype or E-mail privately, always eager to learn more!
    Thanks!
    Paul

  372. david alan harvey

    PAUL…

    yes, i now see what you are up against…sure, let’s talk over these details one on one…there is never only one way to do anything…and let me emphasize i am a workshop teacher…a working photographer who tries to impart something helpful ….this is a very different experience than classroom teaching …..all of my students come to me very interested already…eager, ready to roll….not sure how i would handle a lack of enthusiasm…probably not very well i must say……anyway let’s talk, after january 1 ok??

    cheers, david

  375. Jeremy Wade Shockley

    David & all…

    I wanted to express my gratitude for meeting with me David. It was a pleasure to sit back over coffee and discuss life & photography- thanks for making the time.

    I had an idea, I forgot to bring it up.

    So often it is mentioned at Burn that occasionally the “gems”of dialogue are hidden, archived, or otherwise lost in conversation. I recently purchased and am reading a book by the late Galen Rowell- The Inner Game of Outdoor Photography. Not my specific forte of photography…but the message is universal. Clear insight into the mental process of image making, some technique but strong focus on style and theory – excellent stuff.

    With that said, could the very best of dialogues and insight from/with DAH be compiled from Road trips and Burn in a loose topic and answer format for print? Pulling from the years of dialogue to print/publish the straight forward advice, and personal experience from David (an perhaps others) that we all hold on to. A soft cover companion filled with insight, humor, some photos and perhaps printed off the same press as Burn itself…!

    I realize this is a large undertaking, and a complex one as well. I know that it has been discussed in one way or another here on Burn…but imagine a book in your hands, to read, reread and share with others.

    Any thoughts?

    Best, Jeremy

  377. david alan harvey

    JEREMY…

    it was great to see you again the other day and see your new printed works….and thanks for helping me carry those big prints to the gallery!! your idea is not only a good one, but i have considered this as well..some of the things can get written here in comments are so spontaneous and raw that some of it would never be said if one was to sit down an “try to write a book”….i do have now someone who is going to transcribe comments…yes, a big job, but one worth doing…we will see if it fits into my book… PHOTOGRAPHERS (i have known)…. or in some other tome that could be useful…i want to do a book that will be educational , but still be a good book…and i love diaries (obviously why i started Road Trips)…so yes, thank for confirming what i thought might be interesting..do not worry, i will give you credit for the idea!!

    JOHN GLADDY…

    any contact with that group of London photogs? by the way one of my best pictures i have for PHOTOPGRAPHERS, is one taken of you during our breakfast in new york..assume i have your permission to use it…although you have been so grumpy lately , i am not sure…. ;)

    ANTHONY RZ…

    terrific!! see you mid january

    cheers, david

  378. tom hyde

    Jeremy, good idea imofwiw. Lots of research and reading, and choices of course, but pretty straightforward. Could be fun to pair text with photos on facing pages. Lots of white space, could go real edgy, not your father’s how-to book but something just a bit different. Surely the Burn archive must be reaching new levels of critical mass by now.

  380. david alan harvey

    YOUNG TOM HYDE…

    what a pleasure to see you here!! Happy New Year amigo…you are ground level on this one…will have you come stay my place and help get this together….yes??

    cheers, david

  381. tom hyde

    >David, you know I never pass up an opportunity to visit OBX and if I had a place there, it would be very much like yours. You totally scored on that one.

  387. Brian Frank

    michael kircher
    Grudge… you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    ……………………………………………..

    Did you just paraphrase Princess Bride? :)

  388. Ross Nolly

    I still that the best way to become more creative in any artistic endeavour; no matter the age; is to immerse yourself in as much art as possible. Be it music, films, books, whatever. And of course, an old fart like me who has come to photography much later in life has to try ten times harder to build up that knowledge; and then attempt to produce something worthwhile and tangible!

  390. Ross Nolly

    Also; I was thinking yesterday how much the mass media (newspapers, magazines etc) downplay the general public’s visual awareness, and dumb down their images etc. What brought that thought on was listening to my mother say how much she enjoyed looking at Martin Parr’s “Think of England”. I certainly don’t think it is the easiest book to come grips with, yet she really enjoyed it.

  391. Brian Frank

    “This means intentionally creating weak images who’s roles are merely to tie an essay together as a single unit of work”

    ————————————

    John, that is not as ridiculous as it sounds. Simply picking the best images from a set does not always make for the best story. When composing the story in your head while shooting, you have to think about establishing shots, etc. I don’t know if intentionally creating weak images is correct, but understanding that what you are shooting is important but not great are needed to progress the narrative.

  392. Imants

    David I agree with your assessment about the complexities of individual creative periods and the stop start nature of it.
    My role in the year coming a bit different, it is all bout integrating new technologies in the visual arts at a high school level. This means looking at facebook, cell phones, low end movie and animation applications, zines, the wwwdot world etc and how they can be integrated within the traditional art forms without shelling out lots of finances

  393. john gladdy

    DAVID. Yes I have access to those photographers. what do you need? The photraphers? Brett? The gallery people?
    Of course if you have a picture of me that you wish to use you can.
    Grumpy? maybe :)

  394. michael kircher

    Brian… I realize you were addressing J Gladdy, but…

    “I don’t know if intentionally creating weak images is correct,”

    It’s definitely not, in my opinion.

    “but understanding that what you are shooting is important but not great are needed to progress the narrative.”

    And this has been true for as long as people have been shooting essays. Nothing new here, as was suggested. Again, in my opinion.

  397. a civilian-mass audience

    where have you been BRIANF???

    I don’t have a boat to sail…i can’t keep my eyes focused…
    but
    I LOVE YOU ALLLLL

    P.S i am not in the music department…ROSSY,PANOS…and many others are doing
    a fine job…i am in the liquid deptm…:))))))
    WHAT NOT TO LOVE!

  398. Brian Frank

    Civi –

    An obscenely large amount of work (not shooting, day job kinda work). Spent a week with my sister’s family right before Christmas, and it made me look forward to getting back to work. Just busy things like that have forced me away from Burn. I’ve also started looking towards getting some work in gallery shows, possibly Minneapolis. So if anyone has any thoughts along those lines, feel free to add them.

    Thinking about taking a break from the fight images. Need to spend some time away shooting something else. Everything is starting to feel a bit stale. Hope some time off, focusing on something else will help refresh me a bit. Recent essays here have made take another look around for a “right under your nose” essay idea.

    Sometimes you can’t see the forest from the trees.

  399. Akaky

    All this palaver about the holidays and boats coming in and the rest of it is all very interesting if you are interested in this sort of thing, but here in our happy little burg, where all the men are not terribly handsome and all the children are below average in a vaguely submoronic manner, sidewalk clearance is a concept that clearly has not caught on with merchants, homeowners, or the highway department, leaving those of us of a pedestrian persuasion to navigate between clearings like so many Lewis and Clarks trying to find our way to the Pacific. When you add into this snowy brew the fact that my ability to leap gracefully from snowbank to snowbank like whatever animal leaps gracefully from snowbank to snowbank has diminished with age, one finds our happy little burg a thoroughly annoying place, populated largely by dolts, dopes, and dimwits, when they are not busy being just plain stupid. Not that I’m bitter, mind you.

  400. mw

    Why should establishing shots, narrative progressing shots, etc., be weak? Although I can imagine reasonable people disagreeing about the nature of “weak,” I can’t imagine why anyone would want a weak photo in an essay, along the old saw of chains being only as strong as…

  402. Jeff Hladun

    I enjoyed the interest shown in the contact-sheet idea above; would love to see the Magnum book as proposed, and look forward to David’s memory card lecture. I’ve never seen Cartier-Bresson’s contact sheets, but know that Agnes Sire called his Scrapbook his “Indecisive Moments”, and that photographers were often much more interested in viewing HCB’s process thru the book, than the final outcome.

    In 1969, Picasso began to date his paintings with the day, month and year of completion – sometimes with the commencement date as well – thinking that in the future, scientists, psychologists or philosophers would be able to unravel his creative process. Something he didn’t understand. There really is an interest among fellow crafters in the process of others; a friend got his PJ career going by showing his photo editor not his ‘best of’ work, but contact sheets. The editor knew…

    It would be interesting to see some emerging photographers put forward contact sheets here. No message, poetry, or cultural anthropology – just imagery to show us their process, thinking, and perhaps, their voice. Just to look at their work as photography; 24 consecutive images, with Exif or negative information embedded in the scan.

  404. Ross Nolly

    Imants; If I remember right Michael Yon was one of the first to try this model of funding. He started shooting/reporting independently from Iraq and was solely supported by the “donate” button on his website. He banked on people being prepared to pay to see that he kept reporting from there. And this was before Facebook and Twitter etc really took off.

  408. Imants

    My first essay on burn consists of three very ordinary weak images that I selected out of the bin ready to delete …………………..

  409. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    your way of connecting pictures with graphic design and music is clearly multi media and quite different from what Brian Frank is saying he is trying to do with the so called weaker connections….i understand what you are doing and why, yet i do not understand what he is doing and why…he is involved with literal storytelling at his local newspaper…you are working on conceptual ideas….so you are both making sort of the same statement here in comments , but for totally different reasons imo….Brian is in fact trying to make an editorial checklist of “must haves” , like an establishing shot for example, and i do not think you are thinking that way at all…of course in any essay, as in any song, the beat cannot always be “up” and equality of imagery could get either boring or repetitious, but one way or another there will be a strength to the totality…maybe it is the term “weak pictures” that is confusing the semantics…maybe “low key” or “less dramatic” or something like that would be better than “weak”…anyway none of this matters really…we can all see it how we want…again, my only disagreement is with the “must have this, must have that” in order to “tell the story ” without any regard for visual literacy or aesthetics…photo-j 101 from a long time ago basically…and a big yawn for me personally….yet, i do realize this is the mantra for many newspaper photographers and i do like much of Brian’s work….so much so that i would love to see him shake it up a bit and stop trying to tell me a story in the most literal way…..he loves fellow Iowan Danny Wilcox Frazier…perfect…take a page out his book then….or Matt Eich…or Danny Ghitis….. i just wonder where in the world he can go with this literal storytelling past the local paper…i might add, this is totally an American phenomenon ….never heard of any European or Eastern photographers taking on this “checklist”….don’t know about the Aussies… :)

    cheers, david

  410. Imants

    There seems to be an assumption by some that weak means bad……….there is such things as not having the same authority or intensity

  412. john gladdy

    There is also the assumption that a story needs to be ‘told’.
    That an explanation, or a narrative map needs to be in place for people to ‘get’ what is being shown. That some unwritten, but deemed necessary, spoonfeeding of detail, or conformity to mode is required for the viewer to be able to ‘get it’.

    But what if we remove context?
    Take away the roadmap and the old journalistic conventions?
    Present nothing but imagery?
    With nothing between it and each individual viewer?
    Free the images to be seen purely as that….images?

    Or is it just me that does this?
    I buy salgado to view the immensity of the pictures, one by one. To contemplate them as truly great works….I do not read anything about the what/where/when/how of them and have no interest in that side of them. they could be actors on a set or martians for all I know, or care. the images are able to speak for themselves and i am more interested in my relationship to the image than to the images relationship to an actual event. All of my viewing is done in this way.
    Now I am sure that Mr Salgado has a very deep empathy with the subjects he depicts, and works in a way that is respectful to them and hopefully to their ultimate benefit. probably a deeply compassionate person and a great campaigner for change…..but I truly believe that the work itself, while encompassing that, also transcends it and can shrug off its contextual confines and still soar.
    Certainly does for this viewer anyways.

    john

  413. mw

    What I was more thinking when I wrote reasonable people can disagree on the definition of “weak” is that many might consider something undramatic to be necessarily weak. In this context, I don’t believe dramatic and strong are always synonymous. Gossage had a quote to that effect regarding his work on “The Pond.” Referring to a knife sticking into a tree, he asked “How do you make a picture of that and not over-dramatize it?”

  414. mw

    John, I can see things as you do, and would even agree that images that achieve that kind of out-of-context greatness are the best, but I can appreciate other constructions as well — Salgado’s dead child with coins in its eyes, David’s visual ruminations on the Spanish diaspora, or Nachtwey’s reportage on tuberculosis — just as through writing I can enjoy a poem, a novel, or an excellent non-fiction piece. But I’m glad you periodically bring us back to the image in and of itself. I agree that too often gets lost in these discussions.

  415. michael kircher

    I think the “intentionally creating” is a sticking point for me. It’s one thing to find an image you weren’t terribly excited about but works as part of the story, and another thing to purposefully go out and make a “weak” (sorry.. less intense!) image for that purpose. But hey… whatever works for everybody. ;^}

  416. Paul Parker

    john gladdy
    I agree with you absolutely… I find enough pleasure in just viewing the images and as you´ve already mentioned Salgado is one of my favourites…
    However, how do I enjoy Sally Mann´s latest work “Proud Flesh”.. are you familiar with it at all? I personally find her latest work to deep for me to appreciate by just gazing at the images.
    BTW showed your web page to my pupils the other day… absolute success!!
    Happy New Year!!

  417. john gladdy

    MW. Im pretty sure from your comments that you dont. Natchweys work has many great images in it for me, but I do not share his compassion for the subjects within. How can I, I have never met them? I have seen representations in silver. DAH’s early work also. Masterful use of color, some absolute sublime gems of imagery in there…but I couldnt care less where they were shot or of whom. But I can and do appreciate them for what they are as images. Ceci n’est pas une pipe. yes?

    PAUL PARKER.
    I have a treasured first edition of immediate family, sublime work. I am not familiar with the one you mention but I will try to find it.
    You showed your students my work? jeeez.
    What did you learn about them(the pupils) from it?

    j

  418. Paul Parker

    john gladdy…
    A couple of kids loved your project “Musings”, of course “face” was another hit. We didn´t look at performance and backstage… I always enjoy showing fresh work at the end of the class, something utterly new to them… trying to always end class on a high note.
    What did I learn? Well they´re aren´t into themes too much yet, they tend to look at individual images and then jump somewhere else. Every kid found at least one image they liked throughout your site. Overall “Musings” was outright winner.
    Well you won´t find much of immediate family in proud flesh…!! I´ve got a private class this evening,only one student and I´ve decided I´m going with Proud Flesh, Salgado and Alex Webb… what a cocktail!! But it´s time to start looking at themes with these kids… and listen to her dreams and where I can drop some Burn enthusiasm!
    Here´s a link to Proud Flesh http://www.gagosian.com/exhibitions/2009-09-15_sally-mann/

  419. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    yes i agree and understand totally…

    JOHN GLADDY

    i did not want to write to you under the current Ghitis piece, so as not to interrupt a good discussion, when you said you did not understand his approach at all…that the pictures did not have strength without context or words…i am paraphrasing you but i think i have it right…besides you are saying it again above…..ironically the essay we have of yours to publish at some point seems to me to be using exactly the same approach as Ghitis…your essay on Speakers Corner is totally dependent on context and words…..do you not see the contradiction between what you are saying and what you are showing or are about to show our readers here?

    also, time does move on…the classicism of the Salgado approach or even my earliest work( which you mentioned) does fall into a certain time frame in the recent history of photography…i would not want to even attempt to do my “early work” again, and i think the PEER GROUP respect for Salgado is from 25 years ago…i think Salgado is now a prisoner of SALGADO……this happens all the time in art….sure the pictures live on forever…great…but as i said time does move forward and those kinds of pictures , those kinds of subjects, are being told differently today…art lasts of course , but the attempts change with time…this is 100% necessary…..i would never be caught dead trying to do what i did 25 years ago…i will of course take full advantage of the galleries which are only interested in 25-50 years ago…fantastic ..i love it…but when i go out the door right now to shoot, and i will, i will be looking through the same eyes but with an ever so slightly different spin….otherwise i would be stagnant…and i doubt you will like my next book…the style will be different from the “early work”….too bad…oh well, you will like the picture i took of you at breakfast!!

    abrazos, david

  420. john gladdy

    DAVID ALAN HARVEY. Of course art changes. It must. But taste in art is always individual.As is its practice. And I was certainly not putting down yours , or anyones, modern work by pointing to its descendants iconic nature.
    that is just my taste.
    Also it is in your opinion that the speakers corner essay needs words and context not mine…I have been fighting against that very thing no? So no I see no contradiction at all.
    Run it totally silent and let the viewer decide, or include words and context that were never meant to be a part of it, or run it not at all if we cannot agree. Always your call in the end David. As long as we still remain friends what matters it?

    Looking forward to seeing the breakfast shot.

    john

  421. mw

    MW. Im pretty sure from your comments that you dont.

    Yes, I can see from my comments how you’d get that, but it’s really not the case. We just don’t talk that much about singles round here. When I think of my favorite work, it’s never in the terms of essays, always single, standalone photos. And it may seem contradictory, I really don’t have much to say about my favorite photos beyond “wow.” Essays, however, I can analyze with the verbal part of my brain all too readily.

  422. Paul Parker

    David…
    Strange question here…I sort of know what you are searching for essay wise… However what catches your eye for a single image. I´m curious because I´ve read quite a few people round here like me, haven´t had their single image published either… So in a way I suspect we are probably missing the target. What´s necessary image wise to make something striking for Burn in the single context.
    No hurry answering please!! Family first at Christmas.

  423. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY…

    of course we are friends John…for heavens sake…as i am with Sebastiao…and i say all things straight to your face and to his…we are tied by the common bond of photography, but disagreeing about aesthetics etc is a friendship luxury and not any kind of deterrent..my early critiques were at the Univ of Missouri where we blasted the hell out of friends pictures and then went and partied all night long…good friends..same at NatGeo and most particularly at Magnum….”i hate your picture” does NOT mean “i hate you”..and the reverse of course..”i love your pictures” does NOT mean “i love you”…i will run Speakers Corner and always disagree with you about context…i scratch my bald head not understanding why you think those are pictures in and of themselves and not illustrations of context and of place and history …i mean if you did not know what was going on, how would anyone be able to imagine what the pictures are ABOUT?? i know you are adamant about no captions etc..to me this would have been the perfect time to have live voice over, but i am going with your decision here..Burn is not about me and my work, Burn is about you and your work…your man in the wheelchair..ahh now THAT is a picture that needs no caption or context…could have either , but needs neither….

    cheers, david

  424. david alan harvey

    PAUL PARKER…

    HCB did not shoot essays…nor Koudelka (except one that was all singles-Gypsies)…nor Adams….nor Anders Peterson….all singles….start there and you will see where i am coming from….Gene Smith a storyteller….actually i do not shoot essays either…i like stand alone images most of all…if they are strung together from a particular place i have been shooting, then they may forge an essay..but mostly i like singles….you never hear me talk about storytelling per se….Cormack McCarthy tells stories…i take pictures….

    cheers, david

  425. john gladdy

    DAVID
    Thank you.

    BTW The brazil film has been ressurected again…..seems everyone came out smelling of roses after all so they have put the plug back in. Editing starts january. Trying to wrangle some re-shoots in rio :) not sure if they will buy it but worth a go.

    Also those young photographers and their teacher are around whenever you wish to contact them.
    Just let me know what you need.

    john

  426. tom hyde

    David, I understand about shooting singles :) I am interested though in the assignment work done for THE magazine. There often seems to be a standard approach, in a broad context at least, to the editing and sequencing of photos (broad aerial opener, env. portrait, etc.) While this certainly is not a specific “snot list,” I wonder if this influences your thinking while on assignment? Do editors come back and say, we need more x,y and z?

  428. marcin luczkowski

    DAVID

    I think You are too harsh for mr. Salgado. Do you know a very top photographer (I mean top art from history book) who changed his style after years or invite something as good as previous work?

    In art is all about 15 minutes of fame. It can give you immortality if you are able to use all given circumstances. after the 15 minutes you are able to invite great art for next couple years, but not forever. at last it is not for everyone and it is not a great value.
    Many time I prefer wen artist I like bit change. Mostly it going worst.
    well, nobody is perfect…

    Well, i think it is quite good being a prisoner of being Salgado. The price is being a little more bored.

  430. monkeypoint

    I just watched this documentary about Sally Mann: http://video.yandex.ru/users/alexey-mischiha/view/86/
    In it, she talks about how seemingly easy her first series of pictures were. Every consecutive attempt becomes harder for a photographer, she says because you are essentially competing with the pictures you have already made. She also talks about getting bored with her children as the subject of her work, while her interest in landscapes grew. She said the children gradually appeared smaller and smaller in the frame and the landscapes took over. Change is good. It may not work, but it’s still a good thing. If you’re just doing the same thing year after year, it can go from work to shtick.

  431. Paul Parker

    David…
    Once again thank you!! I will certainly start there right away!!
    Leonardo Da Vinci would of appreciated Burn
    “Where there is heat there is life”

  432. Mike R

    David, John G, very interesting posts by both of you. David, r.e. Salgado being a prisoner of SALGADO, does he (from your experience) feel that he is a prisoner or is he; as per your Twitter post, sailing his own boat? If he is, it is a paradox that he is being true to his personal vision whilst seemingly saddled with past success. I’m not defending him from an attack that you are not making – just curious. I really like his early work (what’s not to love – where have I heard that before?) but have seen almost nothing from him for years. I’m sure that he is still working but he is not on the media radar.

    John G, hope you make it back to Rio.

    With reference to “weaker pictures”, it is standard photojournalist practice to take an “overall” a photograph that encompasses the scene. What many aim for is photographic storytelling that allows for each photograph in any story to be able to stand alone as a good (great!) individual image and, hopefully, each photograph to be good enough to stand alone without needing the structure of an essay to justify it. Some, rare, photographs transcend their original purpose and reality to become icons i.e. Che?

  433. Imants

    The “Essays” with captions on burn I have never been a big fan of and I don’t to read them. The photographers artist spiel I read sometimes before, sometimes after but it usually has little bearing on what I see.
    With a great essay the audience will always go part of the way in understanding the gist, mood concept etc put forth by the photographer because it communicates well visually. Many will be happy with their personal response and there will be no need for the captions unless a further understanding is needed/wanted. Unresolved essays will always fall short in all departments except for the odd image that can stand on it’s own and usually then within another context.
    John’s Speakers Corner is probably a series of photographs and there is no need to be classified as an essay. IMO there have been few true essays here, Danny Wilcox Frazier’s and Jukka Onnela’s ( first piece) pieces as the the stand outs as they are narratives.

  434. Imants

    Mike an photographic essay is a single body of work and consists of a series of images that creates the whole and are dependant upon one another . If every image is made as a stand alone there is not an essay it is a series of photographs ……… a “slide show ” of events

  437. mw

    But as much I compare photo essays to narrative, when it comes to individual photographs, paintings or other individual works of art are far more relevant for comparison.

  438. Mike R

    Imants, I always read the artist’s spiel first – I just want to understand the photographers viewpoint. My comments earlier illustrate an ideal world, that cannot exist in reality. Very few photographs become icons, and why such status is achieved is the subject of another thing when we are all sober – or is that sherbet. Thank God fror spell chick that’s all I can say.

  439. mw

    so much depends
    upon

    a red wheel
    barrow

    glazed with rain
    water

    beside the white
    chickens.

    — William Carlos Williams

    Now that’s a poem like a photograph, eh? Don’t make me type out Rimbaud’s A Season in Hell to demonstrate what a photo book could be.

    Aside from that, this conversation has got me wondering if Picasso’s Guernica would be better as an essay? I’m thinking, not.

  440. david alan harvey

    MARCIN…

    i was very clear when i identified who might not think Salgado had grown..only his PEER GROUP..i did not say he should or would lose ANY of his following…like you….i was simply talking “backstage” talk…you should continue to love him for his work that has stimulated you…for as long as you like…

    i would love to feel as you…but when i see new work by Salgado, it does not seem for me to be on the edge or growth…..this absolutely does not take him out of his very special place in history….a position to be savored and admired for sure and i am a huge fan of The Other Americas…however, i am sure you have seen many artists who achieved such a revered status among the masses, as has Salgado , and then stopped producing the very work that made them popular…they can get to a point where they are afraid to take chances…afraid to fail….afraid to take peer group critique…only savoring admiration…i just think Sebastiao was too young to stop..that’s all…

    now Marcin, you may use whatever parameters you want for judging, and i assume you allow me mine…you may say art is about “15 minutes of fame”…i do not happen to agree as is my prerogative and i hope you allow my own parameters as i do for you..

    respectfully always…

    cheers, david

  441. a civilian-mass audience

         
    “There is only one art, whose sole criterion is the power, the authenticity, the revelatory insight, the courage and suggestiveness with which it seeks its truth…”
     Vaclav Havel

    Authenticity

    “Be yourself. Above all, let who you are, what you are, what you believe, shine through every sentence you write, every piece you finish.” …every picture you take,every essay you edit…
    Be you …sherbet,Sorbets,ouzos,teas,pasta primavera,arrabiata…
    My BURNIANS…you are all artists …in way or another…Viva!

  442. a civilian-mass audience

    May the spirits of travel be with all of you out there…
    LAURA…go my lady…
    What not to kickstart !
    2..0..1..1

    P.S …if someone knows where is KATIE FONSECA…give me a ring…
    Thank you in advance

  445. mw

    You know, my take on it, after being an uneducated hick knocked over by Genesis, which I think is a fair description, and then accepting the assignment to see Salgado’s main body of work, was that after documenting all that misery, and documenting it so breathtakingly well, that he deserved to spend a few years searching out and photographing unadulterated beauty. I honestly felt for him on a personal level. Especially after the Sahel. I can see your point about artistic growth, it’s just that I hope that his new work represents a different type of growth, perhaps not so cutting edge artistic, but artistic nevertheless.

    But as you all know, I’m capable of getting off on silly tangents. I’m still imagining Guernica as an essay instead of a single painting. It would be surrounded by intentionally weak establishing paintings and more obvious references to other current events. Many would no doubt think it was the greatest thing since Manet’s Olympia (which would have benefited by more backstory as well), but I’d complain it was too derivative of bullfighting imagery and cite Hemingway both to prove the point and argue for a more concise and straightforward narrative.

  446. Ross Nolly

    David;

    Regarding Salgado; his early work (Workers etc) blew my socks off. Genesis? Not really. But then again; I feel the same way about Nachtwey. I’m not sure whether it may be that “my” view has changed/grown? I’m not being disparaging to Nachtwey or denigrating his work, but I sort of see the same thing/style repeatedly. Beautifully constructed images, but all similar to what I have seen before.

    On the other hand; when I saw the sneak preview of Towell’s new Afghanistan work, it too blew my socks off. But that may just be because I always “feel” more intimacy in Towell’s work, which for some reason always affects me more.

    But then again; when I look at a lot of the VII work I “feel” the same; ie; that I’ve seen it all before, compared to the (in my opinion) more innovative Magnum and NOOR work . But after saying all of the above; I also feel a bit churlish criticising the work of photographers who have more talent in their collective little fingers than I will ever have in my entire body!

  447. andrew b.

    About stagnation as an artist….

    I think there are, as always, two sides to the coin…for every person who thinks an artist is not growing, has gone “stale” (for lack of a better term), there are just as likely to be ones who do not like the new work, who long for more of what they like/admire/enjoy about the artist they know…

    Me, I’m on the side of growth.

    I think That’s Life. An audience falls out of sync. The author goes to improbable places that later become certainties.

    good light, all….
    a.

  448. panos skoulidas

    I can’t believe people here “still” like Salgado ..
    But its ok…
    The real shocking thing is that people still like McCurry..
    Now that’s … That is so unexplainable …

  454. david alan harvey

    ROSS…

    i think you have it about right…i think Towell keeps growing…trying to discover..not caught up in his own publicity….now please know that i am a big fan of Salgado early work..earlier than Workers…i liked Other Americas best…and what a wonderful man with big ideas and a big heart…and the most amazing wife of all wives..Lelia is the one who makes the Salgado machine run…and in Brazil, she gets the credit as well…Brazilians KNOW she is it…i just wish Salgado was, well, just out there in the street banging around and screwing up etc……not quite so exalted ….again, he became for the masses…Genises is b&w natural history NatGeo not a particularly good version of it, isn’t it? Towell is for us…hey , i cannot remember how we got into this Salgado thing anyway..what was it?? anyway, let’s move on

  455. Ross Nolly

    David; Yeah; time to move on. I’ve been overthinking things a bit and need to get out shooting. Have had an unwell mother, so I’ve been chief cook and bottle washer over the last month or so (so of course the camera has been put away). So in lieu of shooting have been mulling over where I want my work to go etc in preparedness for a (hopefully) big year’s shooting!

  456. marcin luczkowski

    DAVID,

    “i do not happen to agree as is my prerogative and i hope you allow my own parameters as i do for you..”

    I’ll be the last one who will told YOU or ANYONE how to think, or what opinions should have.

    My opinions are liquid from other perspective. There is a very small step between top photographers and a very few who become important for history. It is like famous moon step. Just a little bit, but huge different. It could be a photographer who doing small polaroids or large format photography but it will be one or two from a hundreds of thousands gerat photographers. Well, I am even quite surprised that Salgado have a place what he have. But he got it. Just small step.
    You give Larry Towell example. But he is one of the hundreds of thousands great photographers on the world. And he should be mine example how unique Salgado’s work is.
    Besides, I see the same repeatability when I see magnum photographer’s current works. There are many who just stop doing great work. But like I said, Salgado did what many do. And probably because he is The Salgado many are too harsh jugging him.

    But of course it looks that way from my perspective only.

  457. paultreacy.com

    Now this has been a fascinating read.

    Ross, I know exactly how you feel.

    I too love Salgado’s photography. I’m fascinated by each image’s individual power but also that so many individual images of such intensity so easily work in series to form an expanded narrative. He is a master of the wall and the page.

    It just so happens that my favorite street photographer is not a man I like very much. But I so admire what he has achieved career wise and photographically.

    I enjoy Winogrand’s work but I’m quite sure he wasn’t a very nice fellow, though I may be wrong.

    There are musicians whose work delights and fascinates me but who are known to be quite unpleasant people.

    However, there is an increased likelihood, is there not, that if we like someone personally, we’ll likely likely like their work too? Hmmm. Perhaps I should re-visit in my mind those classroom discussions at ICP and whether or not friendships were affected by harsh critique. Personally, if someone had a go at my work and didn’t like it or thought it weak, then I would be spurred on to improve and would be grateful for the honesty (but ever so slightly miffed at their audacity).

    I’ve had a good read at Burn here this morning. I awoke very early in a heightened state of alertness as if emerging from some kind of hibernation. I feel I’ve been plodding along for years, day to day, bringing the kids to school, fetching them home, cooking, keeping the peace, shooting a little here and there and occasionally making some interesting work and less occasionally getting paid for it. But I was in a kind of rut. Quite happily so for long periods. But a rut none the less. My confidence beyond the home took a bit of a hammering I think and all because I let my passions fade some.

    This morning I’ve decided to commit absolutely to a new camera system to shake off the cobwebs and to make exciting new work. No more excuses. No more hurdles. Lots more passion. I’ve decided that I can trust my wife and kids to tell me to calm it down when necessary and I will. But I am going to make lots and lots of street photography this year. I’m going to expand my jazz collection. I’m going to become a better baker and I might even try to find time to learn 12 bar blues on the piano.

    Much of this discussing here has been about single images versus the essay format. Well, I think that the very best essays are made up of powerful stand alone images. Photographs can have many dynamics within the essay. They can inform the images around them but also stand alone. When a photograph can do both then it’s a real gem.

    But today, with all that is available to us, audio and motion capture are crucial too. I no longer think in a narrative story telling way while shooting. I simply seek out strong stills, strong video and intriguing audio with a view to playing with the various elements when it comes time to compose the whole and hope that something cohesive and tangible emerges. It’s the mish mash of if all that is so exciting and intoxicating.

    Thinking in terms of whether a photography works on it’s own or as part of a series in essay form is important but now we need to think of photos working with sound and video too.

    Stills for me will always be king. The audio aspect provides dimensionality and video is merely b roll.

    How is it for you all? Are you playing with video and audio too? How do these aspects affect how you think of the still image?

  461. mw

    Stills for me will always be king. The audio aspect provides dimensionality and video is merely b roll.

    Pretty much sums up my thinking on the subject. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost all interest in shooting video and recent poor results reflect that attitude. Maybe rediscovering my old love of producing video should be my new year’s resolution. But then maybe when b-roll is all I’m after, it’s a bit more difficult to get excited about it.

  464. david alan harvey

    PAUL TREACY..

    like you, stand alone still images will always be king for me…however, our Magnum in Motion section seems to be the area where the most funding will be possible …i have only done one of those, but set to do more…and i like good multi media and see it as very utilitarian on a day to day communication basis, like the daily news or tv broadcasts….but so far there has been no multi media that i would put above the best pure film documentaries or the best photo essays in books…the combo is useful yes…but i am talking highest levels now…in other words when i start watching film , i want to see film and when i am looking at stills i want to see stills….mostly the combo is annoying…yet, i am sure someone will come along and change my mind….when i think of future projects for myself, they are all books..with a video element for the exhibition (as i did for Living Proof)but not as the main nut…but then again, my two sons are working the video/film bit , so if i wanted to do that i would most likely work with them ..by the way, have you seen the Rio film we did? it is out there on the NatGeo channel…combines my stills , with Bryan video….

    cheers, david

  465. david alan harvey

    MARCIN…

    i think we are as usual just a little bit lost in translation…smiling…you are saying i am “harsh” towards Salgado…i honestly do not feel i am harsh to him or to anyone…”harsh” is a very strong word in English….i will say again…i admire Salgado, he is a friend, i like his Other Americas mostly, and i only wish he did not stop growing at such a young age, yet i can see why it happened…….that is all…i do not think this is harsh…”harsh” is just too harsh a word to describe my feelings towards Salgado and his work…

    i do not know where you are seeing “hundreds of thousands” of great photographers!! show me, show me…smiling…but yes i do agree that the “place in history” is quite ephemeral …. as you say, a small step that is a big step….even getting anything at all is like climbing Mt. Everest as you know….this is of course the only concern with Magnum photographers whom you claim are only repeating…i think we must not be seeing the same books or work……in any case, some will occupy a larger space in history than others but everyone in Magnum at least has a small space……if you are talking about Larry Towell at all, or know who he is, he has a place believe me…but this value absolutely cannot be determined now…or even close…so many are either currently working or have recently died….too early to even think about it…..

    cheers, david

  466. Paul Parker

    David…
    I saw the light last night with your answer to my singles question. Been struggling for months trying for an essay idea… Come to the conclusion it’s OK to work with singles in my mind…then perhaps look and see if there link throughout the singles… Anders Petersen forgotten his work long ago powerful inspiring!
    Thanks!

  467. david alan harvey

    PAUL PARKER…

    yes, i just love Anders…oh yes, think singles singles singles….they add up to essays, bodies of work, collections, series, picture stories, whatever you want to call them…i have been racking my brain trying to think of a better term than “essay” anyway….we use “essay” here, but it is indeed inadequate to describe the myriad of collections of singles…some with a narrative , some not….who cares? i can enjoy a solid narrative OR a collection …both work for me personally….i like “body of work”…

    cheers, david

  468. Imants

    The term here is used to describe the art work submitted by our final year visual arts students ….. A body of work can comprise one or more individual pieces

  469. Paul Parker

    Just searched for “essay” on the thesaurius not much help there!!
    Main Entry: essay
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: written discourse
    Synonyms: article, composition, discussion, disquisition, dissertation, explication, exposition, manuscript, paper, piece, study, theme, thesis, tract, treatise

  470. mw

    David, I’m very curious about your comment regarding Salgado that you see why it happened. As I think you know, after seeing a few prints from Genesis, I spent a few weeks at the New York Public library going over his work. Beyond the raw accomplishment, I was struck by a couple parallels with my own life, having personally witnessed scenes similar to some of his work in Otras Americas and Sahel: The End of the Road. My youthful experiences with native American cultures in and from the Andes made me want to see and understand so much more of the world, particularly its misery. But after a short trip through the Sahel, I realized I’d seen enough misery. It wasn’t exactly the end of the road for me, but it was the end of a road. So back at the NYPL, my pet theory became that after seeing so much misery, Salgado had probably seen enough misery and was ready to chase after beauty instead, hence Genesis. I’m guessing from your comments that that is probably a romantic take not consistent with reality. Probably best you don’t respond to that publicly, but maybe someday you can provide a clue. Or maybe not. Maybe better to just live with one’s illusions, at least in this case.

    Paul Parker, you asked about the cemetery. It’s not something I would do a project on. I’ve never seen cemetery photographs that I like and have for the most part been unable to make them. The kind I dislike most are black and whites that make it look spooky or otherworldly. So in my walking around the cemetery photography, I limit myself to trying to capture photographs that are reasonably representative of what I actually see, which sounds easy but I find incredibly difficult. Got a few that came pretty close to that the other day though. There was very little color in the scene anyway, so this isn’t a bad representation of what parts of it look like during a snowstorm.

  471. Mike R

    Imants, what passes for lucidity has returned to me and I can now see the keyboard again. Your point “If every image is made as a stand alone there is not an essay it is a series of photographs ……… a “slide show ” of events” is very true. The point I was trying to make has been covered since by DAH and others. My personal way of working is to take singles and then compile the singles into a coherent – for want of a better word – essay. I want the whole to be greater than the photographs if they are shown in isolation from one another but I want each photograph to be good in its own right.
    I remember a quote from, I think, Bill Allard that the words dreaded from a Nat Geo picture editor were “That’s a good point picture” i.e. not visually strong but useful for telling the story. Every photographer wants a great photograph that is also useful in telling the story. Seeking perfection.
    Bill also said “Never show a picture editor a weak photograph, he may use it.

    Best,

    Mike.

  472. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    I like your way of framing… I can just imagine this same image done in wet collidion proccess like Sally Mann but it would be derivative.
    :)Nobody said this was going to be easy!!
    I would keep on playing about there. Have you seen Kenro Izu´s work Sacred Places or Paul Camponigro´s?
    Two interesting interviews I suddenly thought would perhaps be of interest to you whilst I was sweating away on crutches in the local woods this morning!
    http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/lib/artists/caponigro.php
    http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/lib/artists/izu.php
    BTW haven´t forgotten your screensaver work still thinking on it.

  473. mw

    Thanks Paul. This place is kind of turning into an adjunct of the Sally Mann fan club. My local library still hasn’t got the DVD, must be slow delivery due to the snow.

    Regarding Sahel, I just took a closer look and see that I was confused by the pub date and that the photos were actually shot before Otras Americas. Another beautiful theory by the wayside…

  474. paultreacy.com

    David, I enjoyed your Living Proof piece for In Motion but it was quite hard work at 10 + minutes. I pull all the In Motion pieces into my iTunes and watch them there.

    There is some stunning multimedia work going on. Much of which I think is on an entirely different plan of existence to documentary films. One that comes to mind right away is Airsick at Mediastorm which is rather excellent.

    I could prepare a list of other more experimental interactive multimedia pieces which can only be appreciated on computer and would be utterly lost on tv as they demand selection input by the viewer. But some that I have seen boggle the mind. Stunning graphics, stills, audio and what I can only describe as high art cinematography.

    I’ll dig up some links for later.

    Another project I’m working on is gathering some interesting street photographers together into a small collective. A gathering of minds, passions and talents for group mentoring, sharing of ideas, editing, exhibiting and to make lots of noise together to better represent our work in the marketplace. First up will be a screening at my house along with a good meal and plenty of half decent wine to get the ball rolling. I’ll reveal names and links in a month or so.

    As I got more involved in a new filmmaking collective I realised that I was heading in the wrong direction. I’m a stills shooter through and through and so this idea for a grouping of street shooters came out of that. When I started to investigate I realised that one of the other photographers was making similar noises and looking to congregate. A new alliance is emerging as a result. Therefore I am hugely keen to get on with 2011.

    If any Burnians here want to set up a similar collective of street photographers on their patch we could have a 6 month shoot out, then get a curator to judge the results. The winning team would have bragging rights. We could set up teams all over the place.

    I’m getting carried away.

    Right now I’m going to get a hair cut and then hit the streets for a few hours with my diminutive Olympus Pen.

    Bye bye.

  476. Preston Merchant

    MW: regarding Salgado and your “pet theory … that after seeing so much misery, Salgado had probably seen enough misery and was ready to chase after beauty instead, hence Genesis” —

    He has said as much in an interview (video, print? I can’t remember). The question was, essentially, how do you go from African refugees and Mexican illegals to penguins and icebergs, and he responded with language similar to yours. Will post link if I can find it.

  477. david alan harvey

    MW…

    i exchanged emails with Sally last week after i ran the small picture of her from 2008…she has a big show now at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts…anyway, i will try to do a nice Burn interview with her soonest…maybe around Look3 time when i will be in Virginia anyway…now SHE is the antithesis of Salgado..always growing…never let her celebrity get in the way of new and different work..not afraid to fail…i met Sally at about the same time i met Sebastiao as a matter of fact…wait til you see my early SX70 Polaroids of both from, well, a long time ago…

    by the way, Sahel (from Salgado) was financed by the incredible amount of money he and Magnum made after shooting the Reagan assassination attempt in Washington..before that, Sabastiao was just another photographer shooting the White House and other routine assignments…this ought to give you something to chew on and research for awhile…smiling.

    cheers, david

  478. david alan harvey

    MW…PAUL

    i exchanged emails with Sally last week after i ran the small picture of her from 2008…she has a big show now at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts…anyway, i will try to do a nice Burn interview with her soonest…maybe around Look3 time when i will be in Virginia anyway…now SHE is the antithesis of Salgado..always growing…never let her celebrity get in the way of new and different work..not afraid to fail…i met Sally at about the same time i met Sebastiao as a matter of fact…wait til you see my early SX70 Polaroids of both from, well, a long time ago…

    by the way, Sahel (from Salgado) was financed by the incredible amount of money he and Magnum made after Salgado photographed at close range the Reagan assassination attempt in Washington….ironically, his big break…yes, a spot news sequence did it…before that, Sabastiao was just another photographer shooting the White House and other routine assignments…he did have most of the Other Americas work done prior however…but as small prints he carried around in his camera bag…this ought to give you something to chew on and research for awhile…smiling.

    cheers, david

  479. Paul Parker

    Sally Mann Burn interview amazing… I was about to submit a comment suggesting if anything like this could be arranged!

  480. david alan harvey

    PAUL PARKER…

    we drifted away from interviews on Burn with iconic photographers simply because we got so busy with other things…but before your time here, we did it fairly routinely….i want to start that up again in a big way for 2011…along with interviews of the editors and art directors and gallerists who may use your work…Sally is an old friend, yet i cannot promise right this second, but i think she would love to do something with us…she wrote to me that she was fascinated with Burn, so i guess that is a good start…

  481. Paul Parker

    Oh I´ve read them all David!! As I´ve written a couple of times I´ve been quietly roaming round here for the last three years… slowly soaking up all the information… but since my injury last year I´ve taken an intensive course and I now suffer from First Degree Burn. :))))

  482. a civilian-mass audience

    PAUL,

    No problem…Wait till …the fourth degree…
    Prognosis…lifetime scarring…
    Oime…
    The damage is permanent…:)))))))))

    Viva BURNIANS…be ready …

  483. david alan harvey

    PAUL PARKER…

    i must have missed your injury mention..just read you on crutches..correct?? hmmm…not much fun..spent 6 months on sticks myself once…in snow and ice too…gives new appreciation to the small take it for granted things in life ..right??

  484. Lee Guthrie

    My resolution: Love fully so what needs to fall in line can. Harder or easier than giving up all stimulants? Of course, love is the strongest stimulant.

    Family time here has been amazing and still the most amazing thing to me is the lack of a camera in my hand during most of it. No pictures of opening presents under the tree; playing on the beach. I did get a cute video of my two granddaughters playing with their Barbies and abusing Ken badly.

    Looking forward to changes in Burn. Happy New Year everyone.

  485. marcin luczkowski

    DAVID,

    I didn’t know harsh is so strong word, I use translator when I look for a word and always check, but this time I have to make a big mistake.
    when I was write last comment I was thinking hard how to write it. How to rise up Salgado work and simultanously not diminish the rest photographers. Both sides deserve it. Salgado have higest place than others documentary photographers or photojournalist. What is quite unique.
    that’s all

    ok, lets move on. :)

  486. Paul Parker

    David…
    it’s changed my life 100%. Used to run 45km per week + 3 daily dog walks each 1 hour, and 8 hour job. Still pretty fit resting heart rate 36/min!
    Been on crutches since Nov2009 3 times in for surgery …still on crutches. Never be the same. Sometimes bad things bring good things always wanted to dedicate 100% photography and I’m giving 110% effort to find my dream, sail my own boat. I wouldn’t change a single thing throughout this year. In pain, smiling and enjoying life 100%

  487. david alan harvey

    MARCIN..

    Happy New Year….you never make a big mistake!!

    PAUL PARKER..

    hmmm…and i was feeling sorry for myself after six months..shame on me…well, amazing, you have the perfect attitude…and the beauty of photography is that you can make your mark just as anyone else…we will do all we can here to make sure you have an outlet for your work …your dreams are totally can do…

    Happy New Year…

    cheers, david

  489. Ross Nolly

    My problem with multimedia is that unless you have separate photographers and videographers working on a piece then you will probably never be able to do your best at both. When I think how hard it is to shoot worthwhile pics, and all the effort that goes into doing so; I feel that the same effort, time and experience must be needed for the video section. I wonder how many people have the skills to pull that off at the highest level?

    I’m not speaking from experience, because I have never shot video in my life. For me; I like either the still, or the moving; anything else often ends up being a dog’s breakfast, and both mediums undermine, and take away from each other.

    However; I am thinking about video and sound for a project I’m mulling over; but it would just be for background sound and maybe one looping scene on a screen if it ever became a gallery exhibition. But I’m really just thinking out loud about that!

    I don’t like the thought of becoming a “bangwagon jumper” and getting into multi-media just because it is new/trendy. Maybe it is the way of the future; but hell; I’m having enough trouble with stills! :-)

  490. Frostfrog

    I just did a little bit of catching up here and once again, I find myself feeling so jealous. It would be so fun to jump in and join all these conversations, but, where does one find the time? How do you all find the time?

    Paul – sorry and I hope you recover well. I can somewhat relate in that in June of ’08 I stood upon a wheeled chair to try to find a more interesting angle on a photo that was never going to be all that exciting and wound up shattering and losing my shoulder, which is now titanium. And something good did come of it. I could only take pictures with one and so I got into pocket camera photography, which I love.

    Anyway, keep moving forward!

    I was interested in the Salgado discussion and thought I might add a comment or two, but I see things are moving on from there and I have things I must do, so I guess will move on and just remain jealous. Of course, I see the old discussion on whether photographs are best if they are stand alone or in need of other photos or… words… to carry their message, but I have already expressed my thoughts on this and so I will leave it at that.

    As they say in the UK:

    Cheers!

  491. Paul Parker

    ”Please be horrible! Tear down your photography into pieces. Don’t bother about glamour, destroy the surface, take care of innocence, your fantasy is more important than reality”
    ”Remember, your pictures are jumping like rabbits into your camera when you understand photography is not about photography”
    Anders Petersen

  492. Paul Parker

    FrostFrog!
    Lets hear your point on Salgado everyones insight is worth gold here. Started checking out you blog this morning…a real work of love

  493. paultreacy.com

    “First degree Burn” That’s very good, Paul Parker.

    As regards Ms Mann, would love to read such an interview. I really enjoy her earlier work. Not too crazy about this new material. But I’ll try again. And again.

  494. david alan harvey

    PAUL TREACY..

    i guess that is the nature of this thread…many of us like a photographer’s early work, but then do not like the newer editions….actually this is quite likely if you think about it..happens with actors, musicians as well..we like an artist for what we see, and then they turn around and change on us…well, the artist actually cannot worry about what we think..they must grow…however, the ones who stay the exact same have more of a problem than the ones who lose their original admirers because they tried something different…many fell in love with Sally’s often disturbing but often romantic family pictures and cannot make the jump from her kids in the backyard to dead bodies rolled out of bags…we will ask her how SHE made the jump….

  495. a civilian-mass audience

    Did you say love…what not to love…
    Love is quite unique…
    Different meaning…
    L as liquor
    O as olives
    V as veal
    E as eggs

    It’s time to transform…but if you are still in incubation mode…
    Don’t worry my BURNIANS…you will be transformed…eventually…
    I wish you all
    Happy beginnings and happier endings.

    See ya around

  496. eva

    paultreacy,watch the Sally Mann video, am on the road and don’t have the link here, it really is an eye opener.. fascinating.. also to see her in the darkroom, or making those long exposures of the faces.. comparing the scenes at the forsenic place and then see the actual print.. go and see the exhibition those who can, it really is worth it!

  498. a civilian-mass audience

    And from our SIDNEY…

    Best Wishes,

    Sidney Atkins

    BOOKLIST FOR “ROAD TRIPS”:

    The Classics:
    ****************************
    The Journey Upcountry (Anabasis, aka. The Persian Expedition) by Xenophon
    The Odyssey by Homer
    The Nature of Things by Lucretius
    Tale of Genji by Murasaki Shikibu
    Journey To The West (Monkey) translated by Arthur Waley
    The Travels of Marco Polo
    Midsummer Night’s Dream and The Tempest by Will Shakespeare
    The Muqaddimah by Ibn Khaldun
    Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon
    Tom Jones by Henry Fielding
    War and Peace and (not or!) Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
    Red and Black (Rouge et Noir) by Stendhal
    The Heart of Midlothian by Sir Walter Scott
    Moby Dick and Typee by Herman Melville
    The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas
    Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
    Wind In The Willows by Kenneth Graham
    Treasure Island by R.L. Stevenson
    Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn by Sam Clemens (Mark Twain)
    Two Years Before The Mast by Richard Henry Dana
    Kim by Rudyard Kipling
    The Star Rover and Call of the Wild by Jack London
    Lord Jim, Youth, and Victory by Joseph Conrad
    Lost Illusions and A Harlot High and Low by Honore de Balzac
    The Crock of Gold by James Stephens
    The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel by Nikos Kazantzakis
    Strange News From Another Star by Hermann Hesse
    ———————————

    Non-Fiction:
    ****************************
    Montcalm and Wolfe and the Conspiracy of Pontiac by Francis Parkman
    Akenfield by Ronald Blythe
    Kon Tiki by Thor Heyerdahl
    Korea and Her Neighbours by Isabella Bird Bishop
    The Land of Little Rain by Mary Austin
    Testimony of the Spade by Geoffrey Bibbey
    Memories of Silk and Straw by Dr. Junichi Saga
    The Grass Roof by Younghill Kang
    Slow Boats to China and Slow Boats Home by Gavin Young
    Seven Pillars of Wisdom by T. E. Lawrence
    Across the Wide Missouri by Bernard De Voto
    Heart of the Hunter and Yet Being Someone Other by Laurens van der Post
    Two Kinds of Time by Graham Peck
    The White Nile and The Blue Nile by Alan Moorehead
    White Waters and Black by Gordon MacCreagh
    The Great Columbia Plain by Donald Meinig
    Third Class Ticket by Heather Wood
    A Moveable Feast by Ernest Hemingway
    Memoirs of William L. Shirer
    Shadows on the Silk Road by Colin Thubron
    News From Tartary by Peter Fleming
    And the Rain My Drink… by Han Suyin
    Heaven’s Command, Pax Britannica, and Farewell The Trumpets by James (Jan) Morris
    Bonaparte in Egypt by Christopher Herold
    China Road by Rob Gifford
    The Songlines by Bruce Chatwin
    In Search Of History by Theodore White
    A New Age Now Begins by Page Smith
    Coming Into the Country by John MacPhee
    West With the Night by Beryl Markham
    Happy Isles of Oceania by Paul Theroux
    Nihon no Kawa o Tabi Suru (Travelling Japan’s Rivers) by Noda Tomosuke
    ——————————

    Fiction:
    *****************************
    Man’s Fate (La Condition Humaine) by Andre Malraux
    Hawaii by James Michener
    The Quiet American by Graham Greene
    Alexandria Quartet by Laurence Durrell
    The General In His Labyrinth by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
    V by Thomas Pynchon
    Gaijin by James Clavell
    That Night In Lisbon and All Quiet On The Western Front by Eric Maria Remarque
    A Farewell To Arms by Ernest Hemingway
    The Guide and The Vendor Of Sweets by R. K. Narayan
    The Horseman On The Roof by Jean Giono
    Letters From Thailand by Botan
    O Zone and Picture Palace by Paul Theroux
    Malayan Trilogy, Nothing Like The Sun, and Napoleon Symphony by Anthony Burgess
    The Children of Sanchez by Oscar Lewis
    The Asiatics by Frederic Prokosch
    Wind, Sand, and Stars and Night Flight by Antoine de Saint-Exupery
    Pictures of Fidelmann by Bernard Malamud
    Spangle by Gary Jennings
    The Big Sky by A. B. Guthrie
    Raintree County by Ross Lockridge
    A Leaf In The Storm by Lin Yutang
    Rickshaw Boy by Lao She
    The Sword in the Stone by T. H. White
    The Makioka Sisters (Sasameyuki) by Junichiro Tanizaki
    The Enchanters by Romain Gary
    The Last Time I Saw Paris and Paris in the Springtime by Elliot Paul
    Sometimes A Great Notion and Last Go Round by Ken Kesey
    At Play In The Fields Of The Lord by Peter Mathiessen

    Enjoy…thank you SIDNEY…

  499. Ross Nolly

    “How do you all find the time?”

    Bill; I give myself about half an hour a day for Burn, but am not a real net surfer so don’t look at too much else. As I mentioned above; I’m helping the folks out at the moment so have a bit more time on my hands than usual! Also; I forgot to congratulate you on your blog! Cheers :-)

  500. Ross Nolly

    Civi;

    I have 3 paperbacks that are permanently in my travel pack/overnight bag; Don McCullin’s “Unreasonable Behaviour”, Keouac’s “On the Road” and Thoreau’s “Walden”. Occasionally I’ll sneak in Annie Dillard’s “Teaching a Stone to Talk” and James K Baxter’s “Collected Poems” if I’m travelling by car so space isn’t a problem!

    I’m also on the lookout for any of Harry Crew’s books (discovered him from the movie “Searching for the Wrong-eyed Jesus), they’re like hen’s teeth here, so might have to visit Amazon!

  502. Paul Parker

    Ross Nolly…
    I love Annie Dillard´s “Pilgrim at Tinker Creek” and “The Writing Life” great for any creative soul… And surprise, surprise… Sally Mann and Annie Dillard went to school together!

  505. paultreacy.com

    Eva, thank you. I grabbed my laptop and set about watching it while my wife beside me read the paper. 13 minutes in she said to me, “when’s this woman going to shut up yapping about herself?” “It’s a documentary all about her”, I said. But I was tiring of it and so shut it down. May try it again later.

    Time to snuggle up to her good self and watch the late news on BBC1. Good night.

  506. a civilian-mass audience

    One burrito,two burritos…one vodka, two vodkas…
    One ouzaki,two ouzakia…I keep my eyes on the prize…
    Are we there yet?

  508. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    Happy New Year…..sorry to see you go….you gave always a good perspective on things and had interesting work to share always…..most of all, thanks for saving my big oak tree!! traveling today but should be able to skype tomorrow or next if you want…

    cheers, david

  509. Paul Parker

    IMANTS…
    Happy New Year take care and keep on being YOU!!
    No smile on my face… I have always appreciated your work (Don´t understand it!) and most of all, your approach to art. No chance of you changing mind?
    Paul

  510. Imants

    Yea I am sorry to get out of 2010 a bitter sweet year……… they reckon that 2011 number should no longer be engaged in a couple of hours it is about 10pm here……………… with a grin

  511. Paul Parker

    Imants…
    12:08 am here, everyone running round getting ready for tonight. Strange year for me also…actually wouldn´t change a single second.

  512. john gladdy

    11.23 am here in Londinium.
    Rock and roll party tonight. De-frosting fast films from the freezer now. Lots of Notting Hill glitterati for me to upset. Prowling the backstage at 3200asa.
    Hope everyone has a fun and safe time wherever they are.

    john

  513. a civilian-mass audience

    Nobody leaves the house…I don’t care if your name is IMANTS,GIANTS or ANTIOZONANTS…
    I will keep hunting everyone down…and I will drag you all back here …in the BURNING area…

    Ok, now you are all free to go…:)))))))

    Viva 2011…it’s just a number…therefore take it easy…no big deal…
    Some of you …you have already crossed over…no problem…we are following too…

    Nobody leaves the area…unless he/she receives a clearance paper from civi…

    I will be back …

  514. Akaky

    Okay, sports fans, time to wish all and sundry a very happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year.

    AKAKY IRL: It’s just an arbitrary point in the space-time continuum, you know. Pope Gregory the whatever numeral he was could have made himself a helluva lot more popular by putting New Year’s Day on June 30. That way we would have gotten the New Year running right into the Fourth of July.

    AKAKY: Not everybody celebrates the Fourth, dude.

    AKAKY IRL: The personal quirks of foreigners and Communists do not interest me.

    AKAKY: I’m just saying–

    AKAKY IRL: Yes you are and I dont give a rat’s ass.

    AKAKY: Okay, and on that happy not, I will see you all again next year.

    AKAKY IRL: See all who?

    AKAKY: Never mind.

  519. Charles Peterson

    DAH,

    Funny, I’ve got a similar New year’s resolution. I’m giving up the smoke – both kinds – though not prepared to do the booze (I did stop drinking for a year and a half a few years back though). But New Year’s ain’t until tomorrow so the lungs will get a last work out today/tonight!

    CP

  524. Mike R

    Happy new Year everyone!

    DAH, with regard to larry Towell’s Kickstarter endeavour for his work in Afghanistan, do you know if he is embedded with the U.S. forces? Just curious.

    Mike.

  526. katia roberts

    charles–

    good on you for giving up smoking!

    here’s something that i posted in a buddhist community six years ago about my own experience quitting.
    you don’t need to buy books or patches or nicotine gum or otherwise feed any of those types of money-grabbing industries.
    a simple shift of perception will do nicely:

    http://community.livejournal.com/buddhists/888766.html

    HAPPY NEW YEAR, DAH & burnians!

    may we all find a way to be of benefit to others and this world.

    xo

  528. Lee Guthrie

    Katia, thanks for that timely post. My daughter’s are both resolving to quit smoking.

    Imants, as in you’re leaving Burn forever? I hope not. You are one of my favorite posters. I gain a lot of insight from your posts re: many elements of photography. I have been busy so haven’t kept up with comments and when I went back a page saw nothing to explain the leaving comment…

    Lee

  531. Charles Peterson

    Thank you Katia and Harry,

    Fortunately my addictions are pretty low key and easy to turn on and off. I smoke one or two (or sometimes 7 or 8:)) a day, and then long periods with none. Organic rollies… But not at all is better.

    Anyway, here’s to an end of suffering in the new year, big or small…

    CP

  533. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS,
    Fire alert…fire alert…Smoke,fire…destruction:)?!:)

    My chickens are living in 2011…I am still in 2010…
    What have I done ?:))))

    Since I don’t see MR.HARVEY around…I am gonna start singing…
    Oh,yeah…

  534. a civilian-mass audience

    CHARLES,
    You will do it…whenever you are ready…it will hit you…

    We are stronger than we think!

  535. a civilian-mass audience

    Happy new year…trallaalo
    Happy BURN year…trallala
    Happy healthy year…ola,la

    We all have addictions,trallalo
    We all have secrets…opopo,
    We are just humans…oioio

    We just admit it and move on
    Happy new beginnings
    Therefore
    BURN,BURN,BURN
    I love you all…

    Ok,I will stop transmitting …I see pans coming my way…
    HAPPY BRAND NEW YEAR to ALL of yo

  537. eva

    Woke up in a parking lot of a smallish town in Southern Italy, about two people living here, and with seven hundred churches, all built around the parking lot and banging their bells at seven o’clock in the morning… someone can explain what people would do at that hour of the day on January 1st in church??

    Sunny, warmish, going for a walk at the empty seaside… heaven… hello 2011..

  539. david alan harvey

    HAPPY NEW YEAR to all…

    still not home, and still not able to get back to work here…but moving (slowly) in that direction…..new story later today….

    i love everybody (almost everybody)

  540. mw

    Early yesterday evening as I was taking my son to a friend’s for a New Year’s Eve sleepover, I noticed an open used bookstore, which was a bit of a surprise. On my way back to the subway, I stopped in and browsed the photo books and ended up buying Arms Against Fury: Magnum Photographers in Afghanistan for a pretty good price. I started reading it on the subway and, without getting very deep into it at all, was struck by two things. Second, that the writing was very well-done. It concisely explains the history and current issues in Afghanistan and the incredible photography provides a much deeper understanding than any writing possibly can. It would make a fantastic high school textbook. And high school textbooks of that quality would make a better world.

    First though, and what I though would be of interest to you folk, particularly in the context of these ongoing conversations, was the general description of the Magnum photographers represented in the book:

    “While they cannot create authentic representations of the Afghani’s experience, they work on the raw materials of news reporting quite differently than newspapers and the electronic media. Some are forensic specialists who select their images in direct relation to a particular event. Others practice their craft by associating images in direct relation to a particular event. Others practice their craft by associating images with wider networks of meaning–for instance, a social or geographical space. Still others have become master griots, spinning narratives in the complexity of one or more frames. Finally, there are the technical experts whose narrative license derives from mastering the image as the underlying symbol of its particular elements. Here, faces, objects and ensembles assert their autonomy as signifiers and can transform a single photograph into an icon or statement. Nothing of this sort is possible in the hypnotic staccato of televised images.” — Robert Dannin

    Just thought that was a nice description of different approaches.

    Then coming in around 2 a.m., I flipped the channels and came across this interview with Charles Bowden. I share the link since Juarez and related issues so often come up here. I know I catch some shit for my attitude that we can’t begin to understand Juarez without reading Bowden, but the more not-Bowden I read or see on the subject the more it solidifies that opinion. Chuck basically owns that story. He was there many years before any other foreign reporter. He broke the story of the mass murders of young women. He’s gone deeper into the drug world by far than anyone who’s lived to tell about it. And his reporting on the murders is unparalleled, at least in non-fiction. The linked interview, I think, gives a sense of all that.

    Finally, regarding New Year’s resolutions, I’ve resolved to smoke and drink a lot more this year. So you quitters, you don’t have to trash your stash, pour the content of your wine cellar or liquor closet down the drain, or flush the good stuff in the medicine cabinet. You can send it to me! God will reward you for it! For sure.

  541. a civilian-mass audience

    MW…do you share…if you want I can come over…
    I have one way ticket to BURN……..!!!!!!!!

  543. bob black

    С Новым годом от очень снежной Москвы, все!!! :))

    will try to write comments/catch up on the comments when i return to N.America…..off to a dacha burried by snow :)))

    Laura, so so happy you made the funding…very proud…will write when i return to toronto…

    all of 1 minutes to sign in …now off into the snowy nigh

    С Новым годом (that means HPPY NW YEAR!)\

  545. Mike R

    DAH, I posted this earlier but it probably got buried – with regard to Larry Towell’s Kickstarter endeavour for his work in Afghanistan, do you know if he is embedded with the U.S. forces? Just curious.

    Mike.

  549. Brian Frank

    MW,

    You should try to find Chris Steele-perkins’ book “Afghanistan”. One of the first photo book I ever bought. Stunning images and solid writing as well.

  550. Frostfrog

    Hey, the day is almost over and for those east from the US east coast on it is over – even so, the year is still new, so…

    Happy New Year!

  551. Frostfrog

    And Bob…

    I’m a bit jealous about all those gorgeous dreams that you are buried in…

    not fair…

    maybe you don’t want to make it back…

  552. Frostfrog

    and Charles…

    Good for you…

    and Katia – good advice, although I find I struggle a bit with the concept…

    MW – I spent two days in prison in Juarez when I was 19. Not jail, but prison, though a very odd prison. Could have been a lot longer than two days, were it not for a cantankerous consulate from Texas.

    Civi – always good to see you, no matter what.

    DAH – look forward to your story.

    Beyond this, I am too tired to say more. I don’t know how anyone can be this tired and still function.

  554. Paul Parker

    john gladdy, Mw, David, all…
    Thinking about Salgado and how he hasn´t really progressed over the years… I pulled out my Robert Frank´s Americans once again last night… always an immense struggle for me personally, finding it always so disturbingly negative and how detached he was from his subjects makes me uncomfortable. Do you think he never made any further work worthy of consideration or perhaps “The Americans” became a handicap for him artistically. Wasn´t it heavily criticized when it first came out… I don´t know much about Robert Frank´s other work… so waiting to see if any of you can shed any light on my disturbing feelings towards this photographer.

  556. Paul Parker

    john gladdy…
    that´s Rolling Stones Documentary… must look it up never seen it.
    Did you capture anyone famous round Notting Hill?

  558. Paul Parker

    2 hour soak!
    That Rodinal must be way diluted… That reminds me we once did something similar in college with Rodinal… Could see the tungsten filament in turned on light bulb in the final print.
    Can’t see your images right now, on mobile phone watching kids

  561. Paul Parker

    That sounds very similar to the dilution I did at college.
    I gather from your comments throughout the year you aren´t into digital capture very much…

  563. a civilian-mass audience

    I dreamed of whales…I was Paul Watson for few minutes…
    Encounters and disencounters…in and out…
    I dreamed …a life of piracy…
    I was a captain…I had a boat…but I was not alone…
    Hmmm…indigestion …it was the food or a message…?

    P.S …“What you want to do, and what you can do, is limited only by what you can dream.”
    I dream big…
    Viva ya all…Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate’s life for me

  564. Frostfrog

    Civi – I apologize that your comment(s) was slow to post on my blog. I have to monitor comments or I can just get flooded with spam. I was just slow to get around to them today.

  565. a civilian-mass audience

    No problem FROSTY… I got it…:)))
    you see I am into my piracy mode…
    I switch modes in a heartbeat…:)

    where is everybody? I hear no heartbeats…

    But we have LASSAL…and she better stays away from my night(shifts)…:))))

    come on BURNIANS…

  567. Ross Nolly

    Happy belated New Year’s wishes everyone! Sorry for the belated greeting, but sprained a knee on New Years Eve so have had my leg up for a day or two! Funny; how often I’ve said “It’d be nice to have a couple of days off to watch dvds and read books”, and when I get the chance I’m bored out of my brain!

    I’ve only made one resolution this year; and that is to try and be a nicer person. So I suppose that is pretty much all encompassing! Take care everyone!

    Cheers :-)

  568. a civilian-mass audience

    “I don’t believe in accidents. There are only encounters in history. There are no accidents.”
    Pablo Picasso

    easy with the leg…ROSSY…:)))

    hmmm…I traveled all the way across the Universe…just to encounter …darkness…
    yoho,yoho…the pirate’s life for me

  569. Paul Parker

    john gladdy…
    I could of sworn I read an introduction to an essay by you called Dogmata!!! Didn´t get a chance to view the images because it dissapeared….Must be going crazy

  572. david alan harvey

    PAUL PARKER…

    yes, i am sure you are going crazy, but not because of the Gladdy essay…we had a tech problem…could not get it to go full frame…we also had some sequence issues…this should all be fixed soon and you will see Gladdy at his finest….

  573. Gordon Lafleur

    Happy New Year Burnians. I’ve been away for a week on Lasqueti Is., no internet, no power, no noise, no light polution, it was heaven. I slept, read, visited, party-ed, and took a lot of photos.

    I thought the film shooters here would appreciate this from Luminous Landscape.

    “The last roll of Kodachrome film is scheduled to be processed today by Dwayne’s Photo in Kansas. Dwayne’s Photo was the last remaining lab that could develop the film. The roll was shot by the owner, Dwayne Steinle.

    Although Kodak discontinued the film in 2009, a number of people purchased many rolls, which they shot and were able to get processed.

    So, the end of the decade also signifies the end of an era. No more Kodachrome.

    Kodachrome was immortalized in the famous song by Paul Simon, but more importantly in some of the best and most iconic color photographs of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st.

    While many will miss the unique color palette and the image characteristics of this film, the world has moved on to digital. Luckily, the archival characteristics of this film appear to have been the best of any transparency film, so hopefully the originals will last for a very long time.

    31 December, 2010”

  574. david alan harvey

    GORDON…

    “mama don’t take my Kodachrome away”…good thoughts Paul Simon….too bad….nothing , i mean nothing looks like a Kodachrome projected through a Leitz projector….we have just gotten used to poor digi projections etc….in print i think we will be just fine….it is really only the projected image that suffers on this one….besides Kodachrome in the end was not what it was in the beginning anyway…i had honestly switched to Velvia 50 by the time i got to Cuba for example…

  575. Paul Parker

    David…
    I know you shot velvia because of the deep blacks but didn’t you find the saturation just a little exagerated?

  576. michael kircher

    DAH…

    I recently was thinking (crazy, I know!) that it’d be cool to have a Burn group Velvia 50 project. Everyone shoots 1 roll within a certain time frame, picks their best from that roll and get featured somewhere in these pages? Some light-hearted non-digital fun? May be a bit of a hassle to put together, but who knows.

  578. paultreacy.com

    I’m really hoping this exciting new camera from FujiFilm, the X100 will have a Velvia like capability. Velvia through the fixed lens Hexar was stunning. I’ve been trying to find something similar for years. Might this new camera be it?

    I hear the M9 with the 35 Summicron is somewhat Kodachrome like. Is it?

  579. a civilian-mass audience

    MICHAELK…good guess…i am feta cheese…:)

    BURNIANS
    you give us those nice bright colors
    you give us the greens of summers
    Makes us think all the world’s a sunny day, Oh yeah
    you got cameras
    you love to take photographs
    So mama don’t take my BURNIANS away…

    i paraphrase the Kodachrome song…:)
    the times they are changing…
    we got to move on…!!!

  581. vivek

    m pretty sure there will be an IPHONE / IPAD …..APP………called ICHROME …. replicating those colors …… soon …….

  583. Gordon Lafleur

    David

    You got that right. A whole new generation of photographers will never experience the amazing quality of a projected slide, or a multi-projector show synched to a sound track. Hopefully, digital projection will continue to improve.
    And yes, the later Kodachromes were not what they were. I am not old enough to have expereinced the original (ISO 10??), but the old ISO 25 Kodachrome 11 was spectacular. When the “new” Kodachromes came out in the early seventies I remmember doing a 10 day shoot for Travel Alberta and being very dissapointed by both the colour and excessive contrast.

  584. Paul Parker

    I´m extremely wary of such things also, I´ve tried most… but if know or remember the nature/characteristics of film in general compared to digital it won´t be very difficult to imitate certain films after going through alien skin…. for example by making a curve adjustment and right in the middle pulling it down to around anything between 105 and some people say 60 but I think 80 is starting to over do it.
    Did you see the comment I posted to you last week?

  585. Akaky

    You know, I realize that I am here to serve the public, that they are the ones who pay my salary, and that they are the heart and soul of the great experiment that is American democracy, but there are times, and today is one of them, that I wish that I could serve some other public, any other public, than the people wandering into this dump today. If these clowns are the heart and soul, the foundation, the absolute basis of American constitutional republicanism, then we are screwed big time, boys and girls, no two ways about it.

  586. Akaky

    AKAKY: The previous post was just AKAKY IRL spouting off, folks; don’t pay any attention to him. The people here are some of the nicest people in the world and this our Great Republic will stand for much longer than the doomsayers like IRL say it will.

    AKAKY IRL: Goddam pollyanna…

  587. nacho

    Paul Treacy

    From the X100 website…

    Will the X100 offer film simulation modes?
    Yes: PROVIA, Velvia, ASTIA and mono chrome pictures will be able to be achieved with filter effects.

  589. Mike R

    Yes John, just shoot film; although I have to say that my Tri-x film scans don’t look a bit like Tri-x until I’ve run them through the “Tri-x” option in Silver Effex Pro. This is my attempt at irony.

    I know, John, you meant darkroom prints. I wish I had a darkroom again.

  590. robert blu

    I’m following burn since a long time. As a pure amateur I’m learning a lot from what I see and what I read. I desire to thank DAH and all other people involved in this community and wish you all a 2011 full of joy, health and positive emotions. Grazie
    robert

  591. Akaky

    So here’s the thing: Auckland, New Zealand is, as far as I know, the first large city to celebrate the New Year, and Honolulu, Hawaii is the last. The two cities lie some 4,392 miles apart [that’s 7,072 kilometers for those of you of the metric persuasion] and in between them lies the International Date Line, a distance easily traversed today in the era of jet travel. Suppose you decide that you want to double your New Year’s pleasure and celebrate amongst the Kiwis first and then zoom off for Oahu to catch the tag end of the New Year’s celebrations. At some point you will cross the International Date Line and go from the new year to the old year. At that point, what do you say? “Happy Old Year?” Would you have to forswear the singing of Auld Lang Syne, since, with your crossing of the date line, the present would be the old days the song goes on about? Could you make an old year’s resolution, content in the knowledge that whatever you resolved to do would be null and void only a few hours after you arrived in Hawaii, and what would be the point if you did make such a resolution? Enquiring minds want to know!

  592. Justin Smith

    DAH,

    Just saw your Twitter post – hope you are doing well. Wishing you the best!

    -Justin

  593. david alan harvey

    JUSTIN…

    thanks…yes, i was keeping that from everyone here, because the symptoms i had were potentially very serious …lymph node swelling, lumps, etc. can connote some really bad stuff…and i had fevers , pain and swelling since my class in Oaxaca two months ago…visits to five different doctors gave me of course five different opinions…finally i did go with the surgery route (my least favorite choice) simply because the lump would not go away….in any case, turns out to be bad walled off infection (insect bite, staph infection) whatever…my whole arm was affected…anyway feeling a little bit too good because of the super pain killer i am taking….but since i did escape the worst possibilities here, it does make me want to go clean…or at least cleaner…no smoking of any kind being the main thing…medical marijuana in tea or cookies should be ok i think..yes?? smiling

    cheers, david

  597. Gordon L

    David

    Congratulations on your surgery outcome. Reminders of our fragility and mortality can be a good thing. New year, new beginning, refreshed perspective. Welcome back from the edge.

    Mike R

    Yes, gotta say I love prints made from negatives in a traditional darkroom, and don’t see the point in shooting film and then scanning it.
    On the other hand, I saw a whole lot of very large black and white prints of early logging scenes here in BC last month and was bowled over by the quality of the prints. Up close I could see that they were ink-jet prints from what would have been old large format negs. Clearly they were made with a better scanner than the flat-bed Epson I have.

  599. Paul Parker

    David…
    As usual thinking lots about you, good vibes…
    So take care, rest a lot and get well very soon.
    Recharge those batteries 100% for Brazil.

  600. john gladdy

    DAVID. Its a proven medical fact that the very best recuperative for a lymph node scare is a big bottle of cognac and a big bottle of champagne.

  601. Justin Smith

    “medical marijuana in tea or cookies should be ok i think..yes?? smiling”…

    agreed :-)

  603. a civilian-mass audience

    “I have met a lot of hardboiled eggs in my time, but you’re twenty minutes.”
    Oscar Wilde
    (to be perceived as a joke)

    well,whatever you need MR.HARVEY, we are ALL just a few miles away…
    (not to be perceived as a joke)

    may the spirits of health and speed recovery be with you…and with all my BURNIANS…

  605. a civilian-mass audience

    LASSAL…
    I love your disencounters…
    Europe is sleeping…what are you doing …my hardboiled egg???
    cause you are one of them…:))))))

  608. Ross Nolly

    David;

    I’m glad to hear you got things sorted. The most important thing is that you actually went to the doctor; something most men are notoriously bad at doing! About 10 years ago I worried and fretted over a lump, but never went to get it sorted for about 18 months. Turned out after all that it was nothing to worry about; but it was 18 months of needless worry!

  610. sam harris

    Ross

    so kiwi tv doesn’t rate us sand gropers!

    Gascoyne Junction & Carnarvon…

    meanwhile down here in the south west we have a major drought situation! dry as.
    forest fires are a real scare… we had major smoke blow through two nights ago, all of a sudden.
    gave us all a fright. came from a fire 100kms away, very windy…

    some folks have had to buy in water, by the tanker. fortunately we have just about enough water in the two dams on this property, but they are low, very low. we have started collecting shower water for the garden… and if it doesn’t rain next winter we will be f*^ked.

    where abouts in NZ are you?

  613. david alan harvey

    MARCIN…

    i have no idea why you got that notice…that is normally only for first time registration…just some kind of tech glitch i guess….yes, you can say whatever you want!!

  617. Charles Peterson

    DAH,

    Best of luck with your recovery. Glad it wasn’t anything too severe. You may wan to see a good naturopath as well. Crazy thing is infections can take roost and affect you for years (forever). My naturopath feels an old case of pneumonia from my twenties and this crazy all over body staph thing I had in Morocco might still be casuing me problems and she’s working it out with homeopathics. Some ugly stuff coming up and out in the mornings. :)

    Re medicinal marijuana: since I’m also giving up smoking of any kind (which will be tough when doing aya ceremonies as it is common habit among practitioners) a friend is going to bring me by a batch of cannabis butter. He swears by it – a swipe on some toast and all the nice buzzy anti-depressant qualities without the body/brain slam. I’m also looking into tonics.

    Gotta get you out sometime for a ceremony. I think you’d dig it and it’s good for hidden health problems.

    Here’s to a great year.

    PS: really dug the Rio trailer by your son… man it makes me want to go…

    CP

  618. david alan harvey

    ALL

    now THIS is Burn at her best…three or four different threads running and all civil and yet all provocative…nice way to start off 2011….many thanks for thinking and many thanks for putting “pen to paper”

    cheers, david

  619. bob black

    BRYAN HARVEY!

    YOU ROCK!….that film kicks major ass! (and what beautiful brazilian asses they are!) :)))))…wish i could see the whole film (the black family alas only has 2 tv channels, since we dont really watch tv)….

    DAVID :))

    that movie of bryans really BURNS! :))))))…but i gotta tell you young man, you legs need some major tanning! :))))))))))…..

    sent u a letter, hoping all is ok…i panic’d when i read the twitter post this evening, but u sound like all is ok…i’m off to bed, drop me a line so you’re ok

    off to bed :))…2 people are already alseep and i got catching up to do…

    hugs
    b

  625. Mike R

    Nice clip Bryan, looking forward to seeing the whole film.

    Carnival looks great too!

    David, I was looking for some flash tips for the Leica M but didn’t see any – hopefully in the film – it will save me a workshop (laughing).

    Good fortune on you return to Rio,

    Mike.

  626. david alan harvey

    GLENN…

    for Rio i shot with a Leica M9, GF1, and D700…at one point, and during Carnaval, i was trying the 28-70 zoom on the 700…it is definitely useful and utilitarian, but would never become a favorite for me on the street because of its bulk…but for shooting around on the beach or Carnaval in Rio, there is no such thing as being “obtrusive” anyway…i am also shooting film with the Mamiya VII…ironically, i have found that by placing the Mamiya on a tripod and being very very obvious, there is a certain type of candid photography i can do because i am being obvious…people can easily see your field of view more less and can move out of the way if they do not want to be photographed…but for example i have been in pubs in Oz with the Mamiya on a tripod and shot the pool table scene, bar scene, dancing scene all with big camera on tripod and nobody cared…declared intent works as well or better as being ‘invisible” i think….and for sure in the favelas in Rio, declared intent is essential for survival….any suspicion that one is “sneaking pictures” with an iPhone or any small camera could prove quite literally fatal as has happened to some trying to be the “fly on the wall”..

    cheers, david

  627. Glenn Campbell

    Funny , I carry the Mamiya around every where on every assignment and off when I whip it out suddenly everybody realises I’m serious, the act of changing films becomes a performance of some lost , arcane art and everybody relaxes even more …maybe they are so used to being photographed …phones, point and shoots etc that any obvious intent to go further is either met with outright rejection (what sort of trick camera is this?, I can’t see the picture on the back ) scenario, or a real sense of inclusion and interest in the process.
    somehow I think that the people I have been photographing over the last few years have become so image literate to the point that they realise the power of photography and the intent of photographers, to the point that without willing participation the ” fly on the wall approach” is a losing proposition without any form of trust and collaboration.
    I have been in situations where I’m plainly not invited and unwelcome and come back with something useful but I think that those days are over…far for useful to be a clear communicator and colaborator.

  628. michael kircher

    “…the point that without willing participation the ” fly on the wall approach” is a losing proposition without any form of trust and collaboration.”

    “…but I think that those days are over…far for useful to be a clear communicator and colaborator.”

    Interesting. I wonder if you’ve found that also means the days of really capturing people in an unguarded, honest moment are gone as well? I think about this often. Family events, out at a pub, roaming the streets or parks… everyone expects a camera.

  630. david alan harvey

    GLENN..

    frankly i always felt like i should make contact one way or another…often after shooting almost unobserved or at least implicitly “accepted”…i could have just walked away many times, but i something in me tells me to go “ask” after the fact…just seems polite to me….in a large event or ceremony of some kind or on a croweded street, this is of course often impractical…generally, i think your observations are quite correct…clear intent and trust are not only useful for you to do your work, but just being the right thing to do .

    cheers, david

  631. Glenn Campbell

    Dave – I’ve never been comfortable with the ” Take ” a picture scenario, and have for the most part considered the act of photographing an acknowledgement of a shared experience, now made more interesting by peoples increased visual literacy, I have walked away from a many situations where you can just tell when it’s not on , but hey it might be tomorrow.
    Contact isn’t a signed release form, it’s as simple as a nod and a wink and you can walk away on that high you get when you and a stranger mesh…for seconds…then drift apart.

  632. david alan harvey

    MICHAEL KIRCHER…

    i knew someone would ask this question….and it is a good one…pardon if i jump in….i cannot speak for Glenn whom you asked, but from my experience and perspective there is no need to sacrifice a subject being “natural” just because you have gained trust or gotten permission to shoot…once you are “in” most people tend to forget about you way more than they would if they “suspected” you were taking pictures from across the street….and remember our beloved HCB has no “fly on the wall” pictures from inside homes, bars, or intimate ceremonies nor Brazilian favelas!!….one can indeed “disappear” into the woodwork easier after becoming a piece of the woodwork so to speak…or example, i have many candid pictures taken in between the posed pictures from my boyz n the hood in the South Bronx shot for Living Proof…fly on the wall ain’t possible there anyway or in many places where i seem to work …..i took hundreds of posed pictures…the ones they wanted and posed for (at one point thought THIS the book)…BUT because they like me and because i was part of the family so to speak, i shot many unguarded moments that would have been impossible otherwise…by the way, they LOVED the unguarded and very honest moments and ended up trusting me so much that they just went about their business unaware of me much of the time after i had proven myself trustworthy…now i do shoot on the street unobserved whenever possible…i still love this approach of course…it is just not the ONLY way to make natural and candid photographs imo

    cheers, david

  633. Jeff Hladun

    I spoke to workshop students of both Alec Soth and Constantin Manos at last year’s Contact fest in Toronto. Manos would never ask permission on the street, and refuses images where the subject makes eye-contact with the camera. On the other hand, Soth insisted his students develop an engagement with the subject prior to the taking. Two opposite approaches – then there is the extreme Gilden approach of close-up with flash. What’s a street photographer to do? I suppose they should try all approaches, preferably master them, and then season their method to taste. The style is the man. Armed with different ways of street shooting, they could then use whatever would work for the moment – both for the subject and the photographer.

    One thing to keep in mind is that for the most part, people do like having their photograph taken, even by strangers. I find this to be quite true, at least in Toronto. Maybe it has something to do with the stereotypical Canadian politeness, but the number of times I’ve had issues I can count on one hand. On the other hand, New Yorkers don’t seem to have the same attitude:

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/photobooth/2011/01/video-bruce-gilden.html

    David – I love the idea of setting up a tripod on the street as a way to become invisible. My lesson for the day – thanks. Much appreciate the video teaser, too.

  634. david alan harvey

    JEFF…

    yes, interesting all the different philosophies on this…no right or wrong to it as usual…for what Costa does , his way works etc etc…however, i would not take either Costa or Gilden into the favelas with me, smiling, but i totally understand why they do what they do…and you are absolutely right…yes most people love having their picture taken even in the so called prohibitive cultures…but as with sex, most tend to prefer consensual…

    cheers, david

  635. Akaky

    So when is this Rio thing going to be on? I dont get NatGeo, but my brother does, and I can catch it down there if it’s not on too late.

  637. Paul Parker

    I first became aware of DAH and his work in “American Photo March April 2005″ he was field testing the Epson R-D1…
    ” A big part for Harvey is to get to know his subjects until they ^^forget^^ about him.”
    ” I´m a participant, I get inside. I´m usually sitting at the same table with the people I´m photographing, so they sort of forget that I´m there to take pictures. It´s a different way of getting a natural photograph.”
    “I saw a couple of guys with acordions playing from house to house. I followed them around and took pictures of them and we became friends. Soon I was hanging out and drinking beer with them”.

  638. Kyunghee Lee

    Dear David,

    You had a surgery? neck? or arm? … just read twitter…
    Please take a rest and Please take care…

    p,s, Very enjoyed NatGeo film… Thank you very much,Bryan. :))

  639. a civilian-mass audience

    “Right now a moment is fleeting by! Capture its reality in paint! To do that we must put all else out of our minds. We must become that moment, make ourselves a sensitive recording plate. give the image of what we actually see, forgetting everything that has been seen before our time.”
    Paul Cezanne

    BRYAN…you have capture something …there…
    thank you mate!

    oime…definitely BURN is rocking…!!!

    P.S speechless…

  640. Mike R

    I remember seeing (or reading) a Eugene Richards interview where he stated that he stays with people for so long they just forget about him to the point of starting to get undressed for bed!

  641. mw

    Regarding the Cezanne quote, there’s an interesting short article in this month’s Harper’s about the current Monet exhibit at the Grand Palais in Paris, talks about his obsession with the changing light of day, how he painted some scenes multiple, I think up to 30, times trying to capture the nuance of a moment’s light. Very photographer-like aesthetic.

    And David, forgot to mention it before — best wishes and get well soon…

  643. Lee Guthrie

    DAH, saw the Rio film and also saw Spin. Loved the connection between the Dervishes and amusement ride. Please pass on to Bryan how much I enjoyed it.

    Glad you are ok.

    Family leaves tonight. Will miss them so much. Lots to catch up on after they leave.

  644. Paul Parker

    michael kircher…
    I think you would of enjoyed being in Spain last night… 3 Kings festivity.
    Everybody goes out on the street to watch the “3 kings” parade. Every city in Spain celebrates this, sort of like carnival only aimed for kids. Everyone was out with a camera shooting images, nobody suspicious everything relaxed and fun. I was seeing images everywhere… but with two little kids running everywhere catching all the sweets being thrown by the parade and me on crutches I just decided to enjoy the moment.

  646. Paul Parker

    Oh yes, then I´m sure you would of had some fun last night. I think this is the little extra pie that little girl on your blog wanted…
    Somewhere in Spain, just an example…

  647. Paul Parker

    michael kircher…
    I tend to wonder round everybody’s website/blogs… I saw a couple of weeks ago that letter you wrote to Nikon! I generally hate cameras, I love photography and don´t bother with equipment too much. I´m allergic to certain gear-heads sites… But wouldn´t you like an Fm3a turned into perhaps Fm3d :))
    I´ve got an fm3a hanging round my neck from 5:30 am until I´m off to bed, never had a Nikon before and we seem to be making friends.

  648. michael kircher

    Paul…

    Yes! Like I said, I’d buy 2 without question! Someday, maybe.

    They don’t mess around with that parade do they? You could put an eye out with all that candy flying! Hahaha…

  649. Paul Parker

    My wife is currently surepticiously hiding all the captured candy from last night… they were thrwoing fistfulls of candy and all the kids diving round picking it all up.
    Don´t wait standing up for that camera!!! Here is an explanation on the Fm3a just shows how mad the world of photography can be….
    “The meter with needle indicator is an ultra-compact ammeter similar to those used in level meters for audio equipment. However, there was no Japanese manufacturer in those days that could fabricate an ammeter that was small enough to install in the camera and satisfy the specified precision. The request for fabrication was rejected because, “We are not competent to fabricate such a small and high-precision product.” After a long search, a manufacturer specializing in the production of ammeters was discovered in a foreign country. However, satisfactory accuracy was not achieved, then, after repeated consultations with the on-site engineers, and with patience, finally a satisfactory level of product accuracy was attained.
    A used FE2 was procured from a second-hand camera shop and it was dismantled and the ammeter was removed. It was found that the compact-sized and high-precision ammeter that Nikon was seeking to design was built largely based on hand work. The real ammeter removed from FE2 was shown to the engineers in the subcontractor and specific instructions were repeatedly provided.”
    :)))))Can you imagine it, Nikon didn´t have one single Nikon FE2 in their factories and Nikon went off to a second hand shop to find out what THEY had built or at least installed in their camera! :)))))

  650. Ross Nolly

    David; As an aside; how do you feel your time shooting medium format went? Was it as (or not as) successful as you thought it would be?

    It’s funny how Soth was mentioned earlier, because I’ve become really interested in his work (maybe even a bit obsessive at the moment). I’ve often thought how travelling with a view camera would be an interesting, and probably frustrating exercise!

    As for making contact (or not) with subjects; I’d feel that I was being “sneaky” without acknowledging them either before or after. For me; meeting the different people is half the charm of photography! And knowing you’ve become trusted by the person is pretty damn cool too! Anyway; it’s pretty difficult for me to go unnoticed!

    Cheers

  652. Paul Parker

    Ross Nolly…
    Travelling with a view camera is fun!! Everyone turns round and stares, all fascinated with the camera. You make friends quite easily with an 8×10, always someone will come over and chat with you. My wife is extremely shy and self conscious so she had a hard when I first started using it on our travels. At least that´s my experience.

  653. Ross Nolly

    Paul

    You should of seen the looks of amazement when I took the back off my Holga to re-load at the skate park a while ago. Most thought I had busted my camera!

    A firend of mine offered me a mint Toyo 45G 4×5 view camera with Rodenstock 300mm F9 APO-Ronar MC and -Rodenstock 150mm F5.6 Sironar-N MC lenses, Air release, Standard bellows,Wide angle bellows,Adjustable lens hood,,Polaroid back and Film backs for NZ$1150 (about US$900a couple of days ago.

    I’ve got to admit I was really tempted, but have never used large format before! And it would be lot of money to spend on a whim…

  654. Paul Parker

    Ross Nolly…
    I´ve never tried a Toyo… I used to have an Ebony 4×5 and a couple of lenses. I moved up to 8×10 because in my very humble opinion the effort required to use a 4×5 wasn´t worth the effort when I sat down and looked at my 6×7 negs against the 4×5… but I´m also not the best printer either. However an 8×10 contact print is something special.
    You must be honest with yourself a view camera is whole different story from other cameras. I slipped last May on crutches with my 2 kids and the 8×10 in the middle of some woods… still had stitches in my foot from my second operation, landed on the bad foot and ripped open the whole scar…blood everywhere, tripod, camera, pitbull and 2 little kids with a walk home on crutches which took me at least 35 minutes of utter agony have convinced me for the moment my other cameras work very well :))))

  656. Paul Parker

    Ross Nolly…
    :)))Perhaps you better paste your question to David again before it gets hidden under all my dribble!

  657. david alan harvey

    THIS IS A RE-POST FROM JOHN GLADDY…..it was under Aaron essay, and i thought it best over here in Dialogue…anyway whatever happens happens…

    ALL “.i agree with what you SAY John , but please link your Speakers Corner here and see if anyone would see those pictures as stand alone photographs and not needing some written context” (dah quote)

    FROM JOHN

    why not.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/29165128@N03/sets/72157625768295002/show/

    or if you are a masochist.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/29165128@N03/sets/72157625615012241/show/

    pretty much all non imagery apparently :))
    I will try harder next time. honest.

    ……Dont suppose I could interest anyone in the 365×2 picture essay of my toilet bowl before and after use that I am calling the price of life- a study of the side effects of anti viral medication.
    No? …just as well..if I ever do a set of pictures like that you may stone me to death.

    keep smiling and debating and have a great day.

    john

  658. mw

    ……Dont suppose I could interest anyone in the 365×2 picture essay of my toilet bowl before and after use that I am calling the price of life- a study of the side effects of anti viral medication.

    You might find a place for it at the FIAC, or perhaps the Tate Modern. Float a little statue of Jesus or Mary in it and you’re all set.

  659. John Langmore

    David,

    Happy New Year! Was troubled to hear something required surgery but glad to hear it went well (at least that’s what I gleaned from Twitter). And you’re giving up all your good/bad vices in 2011??? Well then, I guess change is the only constant. As you know, I gave up drinking some 25 years ago and even if I’m not better off for it, I know everyone around me is. I hope the changes for the New Year bring you the desired outcomes.

    I loved Brian’s Rio film. Beautifully photographed and it was great as always to see you at work. Along those same lines, some of the friends on burn might enjoy – http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/photobooth/everybody-street/

    In response to your posed question, my resolution in 2011 is to bring two photo projects to a close. As you said, there is a time when you simply know they are done and that’s the way I feel. Now the long slog of trying to put them out into the world. Not nearly as fun as shooting but a necessary part of the process. The upside is that it will pave the way to move on to other projects. I wonder where you’re headed on photo projects????

    In any case, I look forward to a good year for you, burn, all the folks that gather here and a lot more inspiration springing from these pages.

    J

  661. Paul Parker

    Speakers Corner…
    Well that is an easy one for me…
    Used to play truant at my boarding school on Sundays and some Saturdays and OK some weekdays also… used to catch the first train up to London. School friends and I sometimes used to stop out of curiosity not only to listen but to see the characters hanging round there. Brings back lots of good memories!!
    Very nice essay John Gladdy.
    Personally this essay doesn´t need any written context because I know the place pretty well. Now some other Burnian who hasn´t ever stepped foot in Britain may or may not understand it or appreciate it.

  662. eva

    “link your Speakers Corner here and see if anyone would see those pictures as pictures not needing written context”

    Me. Not needing written context that is.

    Can be that ‘Speakers Corner’ is enough to me, since I know what it is about. So perhaps my vote doesn’t count.

  673. Paul Parker

    :)mw…Have you finally managed to see the Sally Mann film? Interesting to hear your opinion…

  674. david alan harvey

    ALL..

    going fishing…or should i say going to photograph fishermen…dories to the sea, and nets up on the beach…dog sharks, rock fish…..always fun….and later this afternoon and into the night, Old Christmas…yes, a tradition down here…the REAL CHRISTMAS…booze, dancing, shotguns, and oysters….probably a fistfight or two…when the tourists not here, the real island comes out…let’s see if i can make a picture out of this…back soonest….

    JOHN LANGMORE…

    well amigo, i got this infection when we were all in Oaxaca…bug bite, cut, or something that got staph infected went to lymph nodes in the left arm that had the bite or cut…i didn’t notice it much at the time, but there was a lot going on!! anyway, all ok now…pleased to hear you are wrapping up your current projects…yes, there is a time when we are not finished, but we are done…i am a bit overwhelmed with unfinished projects…Rio to do, Outer Banks to do (working on both now actually), American Family to finish, dark room print project to do, woman portrait book to do, and i think i forgot one , and oh yes, Burn does take up some time!! other than those aforementioned , i am idle…come and see me …but if you do, i will put you to work…

    cheers, david

  675. friendster

    You forgot to put on your list one more specific task, Ed/Publisher: update Burn with new DAH post/photo as the holidays of “holiday lights” have long since passed. Ancient history everywhere but OBX… Not that the images at the top of this page aren’t as engaging as ever, but we are an insatiable beast, waiting, looking, devouring. Buy yourself some time, put up a Valentines photo which will be good for at least 6 weeks until its sell-by date is really stale.

    No, but seriously: kidding. Kind of. (wink)

  676. david alan harvey

    FRIENDSTER…

    but Holiday Lights is nowhere near the top of the page…and since i am still two days away from having the time to write another post,even if i take it down, dialogue is going to happen here…the insatiable beast must always be in second place to my photography and i am in the middle of a long weekend shoot…should not even have taken the time to write this!! :) ..anyway i am sure you can appreciate this priority as well..sorry, smiling…will do my best just as soon as i can…Valentine photo? nice assignment , good idea…thanks..

    cheers, david

  678. katia roberts

    DAH to Gladdy: “link your Speakers Corner here and see if anyone would see those pictures as pictures not needing written context”.

    I watched both links to “Speakers Corner” that John posted and I’m seriously confused, DAH, as to why you think these photos need written context?
    I can’t say I know for a certainty what it’s about – from the photos it seems like Speakers Corner is a meeting place for proselytizers – but even if that is not the WHOLE picture, what does it matter? The images speak for themselves and, in my opinion, do not need a single accompanying word.

    And wasn’t this work supposed to be published here on burn?
    What happened?

    John– some good images. if they were numbered, i’d elaborate.

  679. friendster

    “the insatiable beast must always be in second place to my photography and i am in the middle of a long weekend shoot…should not even have taken the time to write this!! :) ..anyway i am sure you can appreciate this priority as well.”

    of course Mr Harvey. And we out here can NOT wait to see these stories, about which we’ve been teased for so long, finally appear in print. how much fun is THAT going to be? you’ll be far far past the work but to use in burndom, it’ll be fresh fodder for our eyes.

    thank you!

  680. Akaky

    I find that as I get older that there are a great number of things that I don’t understand, which I understand is a consequence of getting older in the first place, and that no one will explain these things I don’t understand to me, which I understand is just plain rude. There are, for example, any number of good reasons why a burglar might choose to bring a tenor saxophone with him as he sets off into the night to go a-burgling, but I must confess that I can’t really say what those reasons might be, not ever having been a burglar or a tenor saxophonist myself. It might be that our musical miscreant feels a greater need to express himself than a lifetime of breaking and entering can afford, a reason many of us can identify with, I’m sure. Who among us has not wished at times that our lives had taken a different route, that instead of succumbing to the siren call of a steady paycheck and benefits we had gone off and joined the French Foreign Legion or written the Great American Novel or shipped out to the South Seas in order to paint Tahitian girls with little or no clothing on? There’s many a time that I wished I’d listened to my dear sweet mother and not gone into the civil service; she warned me against the idea on more than one occasion, something she is all too willing to remind me and anyone else she can get to listen; but I felt that loan-sharking was just not for me, however much my mother said that the job suited me like none other she could think of. But we live in this our Great Republic, yes we do, and this our Great Republic is the land of endless opportunities, a place where a man can reinvent himself if he so chooses, and so here in America a burglar can choose to play the tenor saxophone if that is what will make him happy, although playing the tenor saxophone while he is burgling appears to me to be a very quick way to end a promising career in crime. But what do I know?

    Perhaps music, which, as the poet tells us, hath charms to soothe the savage beast, works equally well on policemen, a theory not tested, as far as I know, in the physical or the metaphysical realm since Orpheus got past Cerberus and into Hades to find his beloved Eurydice, and our would-be sax man may hope that his best rendition of Body and Soul in the style of Lester Young or that playing Ben Webster’s best bits from Take the A Train will slow the cops down sufficiently for our burglar and his accomplices to get on the A train and make good their escape. The method is clearly not foolproof; it did not work for Orpheus, but that mishap was the fault of doubt playing on his mind, not the fault of his musicianship, and the pursuing policemen may be fans of Dexter Gordon or Coleman Hawkins, or worse, may prefer Dizzy Gillespie or Miles Davis to anyone who plays the tenor saxophone. Such are the uncertainties of a tenor sax-playing burglar’s life.

    Or perhaps our burglar has larger game on his mind. If the Pied Piper of Hamelin could empty of a town of its rats and then of its children, then presumably a tenor saxophone-playing burglar could empty a zoo of its hippopotamuses, although why he should want to do this is yet another mystery to me. Turning a large and extremely irascible riverine mammal with a propensity for spraying its dung about promiscuously loose on the unsuspecting population of a large American urban center is not a good thing, either for the population, who will be understandably upset at the prospect of having a hippo spray dung all over their clean shoes, or for the burglar, who can hardly hide the fact that he is leading a parade of hippos out of the city to the tune of When the Saints go marching in from the police, a professionally cynical group of people not apt to believe that the trailing line of aquatic beasts are jazz lovers or the Second Line of dancers at a New Orleans-style funeral; real life does not resemble Disney’s Fantasia in any way that I am aware of. Hippopotamus rustling may not be a crime where you live, but I am certain that it is a crime somewhere, and I feel fairly sure that it is a crime in this particular large American urban center, simply because most large American urban centers have many silly laws about many silly things, but, unfortunately, saying large American urban center instead of big city is not one of them, despite the best efforts of Messrs. Strunk and White to omit needless words from American prose style.

    Here in our happy little burg, for example, which is not at all a big city and has no laws against rustling hippopotamuses, the solons who rule over us, a group of pols as honest as the day is long in December, decree with great solemnity that no one may keep pigs anywhere within the city limits, and so no one does, but there is no law forbidding the keeping of crazy people, and so we are awash in crazy people, who wander the streets day and night looking for money to buy coffee and bring said coffee into the egregious mold pit wherein I labor for my living, even though there are signs everywhere saying that they cannot do this, and they proceed to spill this contraband coffee onto our recently cleaned carpet, which is why we have signs saying no open beverages here in the first place. I do not know why the municipal government finds pigs so offensive and crazy people not so offensive, or why stealing a car is a crime here but rustling a hippopotamus is not, but the one thing I am reasonably certain of is that absolutely no one will explain the rationale to me, something I’ve noticed over the years and that I still think is just plain rude.

  681. john gladdy

    KATIA. thank you.

    David myself and his editorial team came to the mutual(and very amicable) agreement that this work,as it currently stands, was probably not suitable for this particular avenue of presentation at this time.
    One of the issues was ‘accompanying contextual information vs seemingly random set of pictures’
    The Burn team felt this was needed and I that it was not, hence DAH’s ‘post a link and see what people think’ comment.
    One thing you can always count on with David is that he will always tell you it straight up, as he sees it, with no bullshit. I try to do the same as much as I can, and our positions were just different.

    DAVID
    You have been gone fishing for the day and I have been fishing all day. Hope you caught more pictures than I caught fish is all I can say.

    AKAKY. HUH?

    JOHN

  685. Akaky

    Two or more would probably be excessive, especially now that climate change is causing processed deli meat to fall on my car.

  688. michael kircher

    -Governor of Maryland, and state secretary of transportation targets of package bombs two days ago. (No one hurt)

    -Secretary of Dept. of Homeland Security targeted with similar package bomb yesterday.(postal worker burned)

    -Arizona Congresswoman and six others shot dead today in shopping center public forum.

    -What. The. Fuck.

  690. a civilian-mass audience

    Fight for what you believe…
    BE YOU and be flexible…
    find your balance…whatever might be…
    yoho,yoho…the pirate’s life ain’t for me…

    BURNIANS…the journey…don’t give up…
    ups and downs
    it’s all about the journey…

    LOVE to ALL…

  694. mw

    Paul, yes I was able to watch the Sally Mann video. Interesting on many levels, but in light of our conversation about landscapes and if they can somehow convey history, and your comments on my cemetery photo, I think I understand why you recommended it. Seems we had similar thoughts and questions regarding landscape photography. And remotely similar thoughts on technique, at least to the extent of putting unevenly coated glass between the lens and the negative/sensor. Big difference, of course between a large format film camera and my inexpensive tiny and odd sensored digital.

    I liked the entire DVD. So many of her photos are great and the many insights into her artistic process are fascinating. And the high end gallery scene. I was shocked she couldn’t get a New York gallery show for the Death project. Shocked that everyone felt those photos wouldn’t sell. Of course you can fill a very large room with all that I don’t know about hi-end photo sales. So I shouldn’t be so shocked.

    My only negative critique is that it appeared she gave the project a happy ending out of fear of negative public reaction rather than artistic conviction. And from the glance provided by the DVD, I feared the pics of the living negated quite a bit of the power of the other photos. Then they canceled her show anyway.

    Watching that DVD reinforced my belief that purposely limiting my influences for so many years was a good thing. I know most of you here can’t see enough photography by other people, and I respect that attitude, but I don’t think it works for me. You, Paul, mentioned the possibility that my cemetery shots would be derivative if I were to use a chemical process closer to Sally Mann’s. That’s the problem. If I had seen that DVD before I worked out my own answers to those similar questions, I probably would never have done the work. Were I aware of her stuff, what I was doing would have been derivative, and for that reason I wouldn’t have pursued it. But through ignorance of an important figure in contemporary photography, I was able to thoroughly enjoy a year’s effort learning how to make a particular camera do what I want. How to make it see what I see.

    Unfortunately though, I seem to have trouble getting it to show other people what I see. That was evident in the fact that you, Paul, recommended links about photos of sacred sites after seeing the cemetery pic. To my eye, there is nothing sacred about any of the photos from that day. Sometimes I find the names or other information on the tombstones interesting. Like Colonel Blood who died on a humanitarian mission to Africa. Or Thomas Negus, the sea captain. But for the most part, I don’t care that dead people are buried there. Those are landscape photos, not death photos. I just like the wind in the trees. And the unpeopled spaces, so rare in New York. Cemetery photos are so cliché. And there’s so much religious symbolism around that it’s difficult not appearing to at least throw a nod to some kind of sacred. Then if you shoot black and white, it’s going to come off as spooky or melodramatic, which is not good. I figured the only kind of day when black and white could work honestly would be a snow day. All the trees are dead and there’s no color to speak of. A bit of a green hue escaping from a few snow covered evergreens is about all. Otherwise just black and white and a few shades of grey.

  695. Lee Guthrie

    Michael K. My feelings exactly. The guy who shot the Congresswoman was 21 years old and named Gerald. I keep seeing signs calling for revolution. I’m stunned by this behavior. I’m glad that young man is not my son. What heartache he has caused to so many people. I hadn’t heard of the others. Cancelled my news sources weeks ago.

    Another note, James Nachtwey’s Time Magazine essay on the medi-vac unit in Afghanistan was filled with a sense of compassion I need to see in photos of war zones. Stunningly touching and uplifting. And fitting into the conversations of late regarding necessity of audio and/or captions along with photos: his interview with the showing of the photos enhanced them mightily.

    MW, I’m also one of those learn as you go. But I also love looking at other people’s work. Many times the work I am looking at will enhance or verify the work I’m doing.

    Good night all.

  696. eva

    Stumbled over this piece of advice by photographer Andrea Pistolesi:

    “But to take real advantage of this global historical situation the new coming photographers must be wise. The advantage of the fast-growing cultures is to learn from the history and the mistakes done in the past by others: Africans will not wait for a telephone wire to call, they’ll have cellphones instead!
    So, to finalize my idea, a suggestion: look at the images done in the past 40 years in the West, at the magazines that made photography great, at the work of great photographers. Understand, absorb and digest this mass of cultural history. Then just forget it. This is the past. Will be part of you visual DNA, but nothing more. You task is to start now, from here, to develop your visual language, your expression, the future of photography. Your photography.”

    Found it interesting in comparison to what MW has written up here: “..purposely limiting my influences for so many years was a good thing..”

    I think key in what Pistolesi’s saying is: “Then just forget it”. Makes sense to me. It’s like learning how a camera works, absorb the mechanics to the point of forgetting about them. From there on it starts.

  697. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    please consider the source of that “forget it” comment….having a sense of your heritage is nothing like learning how to use a camera and then “forget it” and go take pictures…one should never be bogged down by history/heritage of course…but to have no sense of it is to put oneself at an extreme disadvantage when dealing with curators, gallerists, publishers and the like who do have a sense of art/photography history…

    even to reject an idea , you must know what the idea is that you are rejecting…

    but i do agree with Pistolesi in when he implores all to develop their personal visual language…of course…we say that every day here…but MOST need referencing…there is the occasional once in a century genius who just pops out of the crib and creates masterpieces, but i think a couple of centuries have passed without this person, so we may want to go to plan B…smiling..

    cheers, david

  698. eva

    DAVID..

    Ah, I think the ‘forget it’ isn’t meant like ‘cancel it’, but more like ‘put it in a corner of your brain’.. perhaps I should have posted the whole quote, which you can find here:

    http://pistolesiphoto.blogspot.com/2011/01/mr-president-sir-thanks.html

    What made me stop in reading it was MW’s posting above, the complete contrary of absorbing by limiting the influences as in not looking at others works.. wouldn’t work for me, and I’d kick myself in the butt really hard, for all the good photography I’d have missed, all the emotions not felt by looking at it..

    Btw, got that picture yesterday??

  699. david alan harvey

    KATIA…JOHN…

    you know these comments get strung out all over the place and it is easy to get confused..so let’s just back up a wee bit for clarification…with me so far?? :)

    for my personal photography presentation to a sophisticated photography educated crowd (my audience for my books for example) , i prefer no captions and minimal written “set up”…please look at my books and note there are either place only labels or no captions at all…SO I PERSONALLY PREFER NO CAPTIONS when presenting photographs AS PHOTOGRAPHS ..so clear on that one, right?

    pictures or depictions or descriptive visuals are one thing, photographs as photographs another…still with me?

    HOWEVER, for the presentation of some work in some venues i often think context (either text or captions or both) have some value…you may notice that some stories on Burn have captions and some do not..the more journalistic presentations tend to have more value for most readers IF the reader has some idea that the picture was shot in South America or South Africa…no, DOES NOT CHANGE THE PICTURE, but it simply could be of use to some people…

    i would guess that a majority of the time most people are curious about the location and circumstances of pictures presented in magazines…some photo essays are just so “visual only” sequences of images that perhaps just a provocative title is enough…it just depends on the essay and of course it depends on the editor and mostly the audience….all is subjective from the get go!!

    in the case of Speakers Corner, i felt that John’s photographs needed at least some support…many know the history and location of Speakers Corner in Hyde Park in London, but i cannot assume everyone does..does everyone? can i assume that all readers of Burn even know it is in London? giving people a little information on THIS TYPE of story certainly cannot hurt and might be helpful…now the key here is when i say THIS TYPE…yes, if you see one of John’s pictures i am sure it is obvious what is going on..somebody is saying something..ranting…arguing…disagreeing..agreeing…sure we can see that i think…but isn’t it even more interesting when find out Karl Marx stood in the same spot and ranted as well? or if not, does it hurt to have this info?? frankly i thought this would be perfect multi media piece…with a sound track ..what these folks have to say , not John but THEM, could be pretty interesting imo….since these to me are clearly photojournalistic pictures and not pictures to be presented as wall art , that maybe just maybe context could be important or as least have value…i was never saying any more or less than this …

    there is another reality here…none of us behind the scenes here at Burn could really fall in love with these pictures…just as pictures/photographs….not compared to the essays we had on deck…..

    part of the problem (and i love you John) was that the pictures John linked here to this audience were not exactly the same pictures he presented to us…his VERY BEST PICTURE imo was shown here to you , but not to us at Burn…i was frankly a bit shocked by this and wrote John immediately…John will not deny this….one picture can change the way you see an entire essay…so you may see the back and forth of getting an essay up and ready is often way more complicated than anyone thinks..i mean you have to be a private detective and go back and ask many photographers “do you have more that you did not show us?” ..this is exhausting and time consuming…AND just part of the job..no complaints… :)

    photographers, trust me, are their own worst enemies..but i love em…why?? cause i am one of you!! smiling…i make editors crazy all the time….and of course the other key reality here is that the choosing of work for any venue cannot be democratic…democracy works well (sort of) for government, but not for art….sometimes folks in various venues decide they want a “peoples choice” award…never works really….not for the movies , not for music, not for photography…i could give example after example…the juried show will always carry the most WEIGHT….

    ok, so when the dust finally settles on this one, i am sure we will have a fine presentation where John will be proud and we will too……John is a fine man and a good friend and he has been a guest in my home…some great days and great conversation….good company all around….i have published his strong portraits on Burn..not because he is a fine man and a good friend, but because those portraits really resonated visually..for him, for me, for this audience….

    this behind the scenes discussion is i hope a good one for everyone here…John is a stand up guy and there is nothing i appreciate more….Katia, we have not met, but share some of those good vibes where there is no doubt in my mind that when we do meet , the sparkle in the eyes will say it all…and i do hope that this is all taken in the spirit of good discussion and in the right place….like Speakers Corner!!

    hey, we are lucky…this is fun isn’t it?? good discussion, a creative process, building stuff…all good…none of us perfect, and all of us wanting to do something special….i think we are on to it….

    high fives, big hugs

    david

  700. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    oh ok..again, context can be important!! a piece of a statement can always be misleading..sound bites work sometimes but not all the time…

    while i am often “selecting/rejecting” the work of other photographers all the time here on Burn, there is no photographer in the planet whom i reject more than myself….i will go through everything today that i have been shooting the last few days, but i have a feeling i did not quite get it…i was in two fantastic all Americana situations, but i do not know if i really nailed it to the wall…i tried…really…but well we will see….for one thing i had to avoid a couple of fights…

    nobody ever tries to pick a fight with me in a Brazil favella or in the South Bronx hood…but put me with my own tribe of rednecks drunk and well a different story..makes sense i guess..one guy who was not even in my field of view somehow thought i took his picture and was ready to smash my camera ( it is always somebody you did NOT photograph who somehow takes offense-alcohol being the ultimate factor of course)…fortunately i was “saved” by three little old ladies from the church who had prepared the food…..the meanest drunkest redneck is definitely not going to defy his grandmother…

    cheers, david

  701. mw

    Eva, sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I studied photojournalism in a well-regarded university program and was raised to idolize Cartier-Bresson, Gene Smith, and the WPA and Life photographers. Now I am comfortable enough in my own skin to study whatever work of others as well. But there was a time when I found it beneficial to develop my own identity. If I would have ended up with a body of work that looked just like millions of others on FLICKR, then I would have just hung it up and maybe joined a camera club. Instead, I reached a point where I had developed an aesthetic but had stopped growing. That’s when I turned up here and began studying other work. But I love the act of doing photography, of solving aesthetic problems and then looking at the results, whether it produces interesting photos or not. Of course I’d prefer to be good, but if that doesn’t prove to be the case, at least I’ll be bad in a unique way. An educated way as well.

    BTW, I really appreciate those links you’ve been providing. Thank you so much.

  702. eva

    DAVID..

    “…fortunately i was “saved” by three little old ladies from the church who had prepared the food….”

    now THAT is a pic somebody should have taken.. :))

    Hoping your feeling of not having it nailed to the wall prooves wrong.. nail it to the wall.. must remember that, not an expression used over here..

  703. eva

    mw..

    ok, a bit confused now, reading this written by you: “Watching that DVD reinforced my belief that purposely limiting my influences for so many years was a good thing. I know most of you here can’t see enough photography by other people, and I respect that attitude, but I don’t think it works for me.” I got the impression that.. ehm.. so many years meant something like just.. ehm.. so many years.. which seemed a long time of fasting to me.

    Have to say that I have no idea what’s taught in PJ schools/programs, but I don’t think that looking at others work will make of you (intended as general you) a mediocre photographer, or a simple copy machine, I’m convinced that if you’ve got IT, it will come through either way.. but then, that’s just me..

  704. mw

    Eva, note that I phrased that sentence in the past tense. “So many years,” realistically about three, was a time that came to an en about a year and a half ago and soon thereafter I showed up here and laid myself open to influence. I’d think you were aware that I currently look at a lot of other photographers’ work and put a lot of thought into it as well. But people have different approaches. That’s okay. I’m not criticizing anyone.

    The art world is full of examples of different approaches working. Off the top of my head, I can cite Guaugin, who isolated himself in Tahiti and came up with a unique style largely free from contemporary influence. I also note that many of those historical figures, including Gauguin, and his buddy Van Gogh for that matter, who developed their own visual styles were not popular at the time while many of those who appeared regularly in the best salons of their time are forgotten, or recognized as derivative now if they are referenced at all. So there’s often a difference between being historically good and contemporary good, but I think a general lesson is that those who don’t develop their own unique visual style are unlikely to become historically good. Not that unique visual style guarantees anything. Still, I’d rather be Ed Wood bad than camera club good.

  705. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    :)))I still believe there is a project within this graveyard waiting for you…At least the way you write about it shows a fascination or curiosity worth searching…
    Had an art teacher who used to scolds us at school when we called ourselves artists…his reasoning was art was a journey, an experience, life… well that´s what you´ve got to try, get out there in that cemetery and shoot the hell out of your camera…

    “i had a treasure map i got out of a cereal box when i was a kid….i never found the treasure….but i sure loved the map” DAH

    That´s the photography life, journey. Don´t think so much about it and just do it.
    Mw, who doesn´t have difficulties attempting to show what we experience and convey it onto film or sensor! So get out there forget Salgado, Burn and etc sing your own song make 150 errors/bad images and maybe one interesting image may appear.
    From what I´ve read throughout Burn, literature seems to be an important part in your life, well take it from there…
    Colonel Blood and Thomas Negus, the sea captain… don´t those marvelous names convey a kind of magic? Maybe it shouldn´t be a photo project and instead make it short story, novel or a kids book… look at what amazing things this man gets up to with kids stories….http://www.chrisvanallsburg.com/flash.html
    Or how would Borges deal with this cemetery if he came upon it and felt equally inspired?
    Strange idea about not looking at contemporary photographers!! I´m totally the other way round I soak everything I can find even if I dont like it!! Remember, Robert Frank really studied in depth Walker Evan´s work before beginning his famous road-trip. Every single theme has been done before so don´t think you will find an incredible original essay by keeping blind toward everything photographic round you! Past influences are good for your vision it´s like learning to read and write…
    Oh, and I´m sure Sally Mann would kick ass with a little digital camera… so forget it´s limitations or buy something better!
    Here is a book which you might like it isn´t about photography but it deals with the same problems we all fight in our creative life….
    http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Seeing-Drawing-Meditation/dp/0394719689/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294586866&sr=8-1
    You can take the sky as the limit or like my son Ethan…
    “Daddy, I know why they made the sky so high… so they could stand those very big lamp posts upright”. Turn it upside down sometimes the view comes clearer.

  706. david alan harvey

    “Photography is the easiest thing in the world if one is willing to accept pictures that are flaccid, limp, bland, banal, indiscriminately informative, and pointless. But if one insists in a photograph that is both complex and vigorous it is almost impossible.” – John Szarkowski curator emeritus Museum of Modern Art NYC

  707. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    sorry wrong expression…”nail it to the wall” here refers to nailing a picture up on the wall a la museum exhibition ..in other words, locking something down for sure…or perhaps nailing up a poster or a target or something that is to be really really in place…perhaps poor choice of words for you….so sorry

    MW..

    well said..

    cheers,david

  708. eva

    MW, sorry, might have missed some of what you wrote, for what I knew it could have been 20 years.. and sure, Gaugin might have closed himself to contemporary influences, if you intend them as European influences, but sure has opened himself to other influences, it’s sufficent to look at Tahitian artwork to see this..

    To appear or not to appear, I think that has a lot to do on how one sells oneself, it’s not only the work, it’s also marketing.. and was already back at his time and earlier. To know the right people.. but that might be important to some, and to some others not.. when the work and passion is what counts, not the recognition.. but that’s a whole other subject matter altogether..

  709. mw

    David, regarding the Szarkowski quote, exactly.

    Paul, guess we were cross posting and you missed my explanation to Eva that my time off the reservation was temporary. But I’m not sure why you think I don’t go out and photograph a lot. Although I don’t link to my serious work, I often put up links of my walking around photos, the cemetery stuff being the most recent example. Although I think about these things a lot, I don’t fall into the category of those who spend too much time thinking and not enough doing. Quality, of course, is a different question. Currently, my color photos do not contribute anything innovative to the art, but I think there’s a chance some of my narrative strategies are unique in a good way and interesting. We’ll see. Room for improvement is not necessarily an altogether bad thing.

    And since you bring it up,note that Frank was vilified for his divergence from contemporary standards when Americans was first published.

  710. eva

    DAVID.. nothing to be sorry about!! I did get the meaning, it quite nails it ;)

    Half of the fun hanging out here is learning new words.. expanding my brain..

  711. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    Yes there was some cross posting…
    nothing in my mind made me believe you dont shoot lots images i was taking it from the feeling of doubt i sort find when you write about this cemetary…only trying to push you on and make something special.All in good spirit!!!
    Also mainly because i´ve given up on landscape images, if i can help encourage with anything i will 110%
    because i´m sure its a very good idea.
    I also know that Frank was vilified for his divergence from contemporary standards when Americans was first published.

    Mw perhaps you and david can help me out with this comment i put out a week ago….
    john gladdy, Mw, David, all…
    Thinking about Salgado and how he hasn´t really progressed over the years… I pulled out my Robert Frank´s Americans once again last night… always an immense struggle for me personally, finding it always so disturbingly negative and how detached he was from his subjects makes me uncomfortable. Do you think he never made any further work worthy of consideration or perhaps “The Americans” became a handicap for him artistically. Wasn´t it heavily criticized when it first came out… I don´t know much about Robert Frank´s other work… so waiting to see if any of you can shed any light on my disturbing feelings towards this photographer.

  712. Jeremy Wade Shockley

    David,

    I forgot to ask you…with the Lumix GF1 do you use an viewfinder attachment? I’ve seen this camera present some problems in bright daylight b/c of the screen. Otherwise is is an awesome combo with the 20mm!

    Brazil video “teaser” looks great…makes me wish the snow was gone!

    Best, Jeremy

  713. Charles Peterson

    PANOS (ALL),

    Saw Restrepo for the first time last night. Blew… me… the fuck… away. Quite possibly the best (most affecting) war documentary ever made. Tim Hetherington’s solid as a rock camerawork in the face of that shit is mind blowing. Everyone see this film asap. I couldn’t sleep afterwards. You are forewarned. I’m sure I will see it again and again.

    CP

  714. a civilian-mass audience

    oime…What not to RESTREPO!!!
    PANOS,CHARLES…again and again…

    FRAMERS,
    yeap,pirate life goes…rumi stays…:)))

    JEREMY,
    I love the hats…I see hats everywhere…
    I am gonna buy one…then you can have my picture…:)))

    I love you all
    I just nailed you all …in my wall
    VIVA!

  716. friendster

    @Jeremy TECH TALK ALERT!!!!

    i think david said at one point that he uses a voigtlander optical finder, not positive. i tried one of those on mine and just couldn’t get used to the parallax correction (none) and the loose approximation of framing. but i’ve certaily shot way less on my camera than he has on his…i’ve since bought and used the panasonic live finder which shows a kind of grainy image, but it’s precise in the framing as it shows the same output that goes to the screen on the back. in bright light outside you just can’t go on the back alone, you need some kind of finder. they just introduced a 14mm lens (28mm equiv) which i own and like very much.
    regards,

    ~f

    ps amazon was selling the GF-1 recently for $300 new, w/o lens, via Samy’s in LA. a bargain!

  720. Paul Parker

    Jeremy Wade Shockley…
    david alan harvey
    August 16, 2010 at 11:58 am
    DQ

    i have no aversion to tech talk and answer all questions that i see….sometimes i miss if i am not around for a couple of days……i do always answer your questions i think, but never know whether you actually read them or not..regarding tech, it is just that i have so few things i know anything about and so little equipment that i use, that i can contribute little to most conversations…however, the GF1 is a favorite…i use the Voightlander 40mm optical (as per recommended by C. Peterson and others)and i only bought the 1.7 20mm….so really simple and really easy to think about and use…i did originally buy the electronic viewfinder and used it once…no good….

    we have made 30 x40 inch prints from this camera even shooting at iso 1600…however, i would not recommend going past iso 400 unless you must…on auto iso i think it won’t take you past 800 , which is a pretty good indicator of where the camera designers want you to be anyway (it goes to 3200)…..not as good in the low light as the larger cameras…at 1600 the reds break up badly on 30 x40′s on close inspection although at normal viewing distance , we have some nice prints at that iso..

    i guess the workhorse cameras are still the D700 and 5D…but i just cannot work with those “horses” most of the time…so damned large and obtrusive imo…..last night i was shooting at an outdoor ice cream bar with families, lovers, all kinds of tourists where there was no way i could explain to everyone who i was and what i was doing….just too many folks and i needed to be in their face so to speak…because of the GF1 i could “dance” in among everyone…move shoot, move shoot, sip my choc shake in my left hand, and move shoot with my right…it was dark, so i was working off the back screen…could not have done what i was doing, work the way i was working, with my D700…too noisy, big, awkward, aggressive…….the GF1 seems playful, innocent…..fun to shoot with this camera…not for everything, but surely for a lot of the type of work i do and absolutely the best ice cream bar camera around

    cheers, david

    M9 is terrific too….but isn’t ten times better than the GF1 at ten times the price…only a little bit better…the thing about the GF1 is that you could lose it…i mean as in have it stolen on the streets of Rio for example…when you are out there with the M9 you just have to hope like hell that nobody realizes what it is….

    cheers, david

    wish i could help here, but i have no experience with the GF1 with any other lens than the 1.7 20mm….it does seem to me however that using any lens too physically large might just ruin the reason the GF is so attractive in the first place..i would not try to make it replace one of those workhorse cameras per se….i mean i do see it as a point and shoot camera with the 1.7 being so totally ergonomic…i am not sure exactly what you are trying to shoot, but the 700 and 5D cannot be replaced by the GF1 in general…it is a supplementary camera for most..

  721. a civilian-mass audience

    JEREMY,
    Deal…:)

    FRAMERS,
    You nailed it:)

    EVA,
    I miss my chickens…
    I will be back next week…I can’t wait to “hug” them
    Yours… looks too good…I hope it tastes good too:)))

    GF1,M9…no problem…I love them All…!!!

    Keep rolling BURNIANS …rumi is on me!
    Moderation is the key…

  722. Ross Nolly

    David; If you have the time, I was wondering if you were able to pass on how you felt your experience with medium format has gone? Did it work how you expected etc?

    Cheers and thanks! :-)

  724. eva

    DAVID..

    Regarding the last twitter feed.. 6 months, 25 pictures.. and now, what happens? Do you bring them only the 25? Or the 25 plus the decent ones? Do you have a minimum number you must present? If I remember well the project should cover the whole year, that means another 6 months..? And, most important, are you happy so far?

  725. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    i usually show editors around 25-30 pictures no matter how long the story took to shoot…and that is all they see..the “they” being the Editor of the magazine and assembled editors for maps, captions, research, text, layout etc…the illustrations editor that i have worked with throughout the entire process has seen every single frame and we have mutually come up with the magic 25 to show the Editor…there is no required number of pictures to show, but i think most photographers most of the time realize that somewhere between 20 and 30 images is all that is necessary….for a book you may show more of course, but to get an editor interested, the magic handful is what you need…….

    this is an intense selection process…and the most wonderful process i must say….the truly fun part…no better feeling than getting down to the essence…as you know, this Outer Banks story is a bit different in that it is intermittent….pictures from home..very different scheduling than say Rio where i go for a set period of time…everyone knows also that it is often difficult to shoot professionally your immediate surroundings…easy to get distracted with personal stuff unrelated to the story at hand…but i will take that so called disadvantage….and look to photographers like Bruce Davidson who have only shot their immediate surroundings..unfamiliar is hard, familiar is hard..it is all “hard” and all the only way i can imagine living….i still have to pinch myself to believe i have earned my way by making photographs…

    am i happy so far? well, self satisfaction does not happen on a certain level…it is forbidden in my mind to become self satisfied …always feeling a bit short…now this pain is part of the pleasure….and adding one or two as i did this weekend is for sure one of the great joys of doing this type of work…i have built a nice little music track slide show of OBX, three and half minutes, to present on the big screen to my colleagues at NatGeo this week…we now have our annual seminar..a gathering of the tribe , where “show and tell” is part of the game…yes yes the most fun….there are only about 50-100 people in the auditorium…colleagues, editors…there are literally 40 million people out there who will see these pictures when published..but of course i only care what this small group thinks!!

    cheers, david

  726. mw

    Paul, thanks, I appreciate where you’re coming from. Regarding the possibility of doing a professionally intentioned project on the cemetery, it’s a question of choice rather than doubt. And the slideshow I linked to above pretty much does constitute a project. I’d planned for some time to take the black and white camera over there to get those kinds of photos if the opportunity ever presented itself during a fresh snow. It’s just that I see that kind of thing as more of an exercise than as serious work (though I do like the idea of projects that require specific atmospheric conditions and have to be done when everything is just right).

    It’s occurred to me that if I were to teach a beginning or perhaps intermediate photo class, the cemetery would be a great place for a field trip. For beginners, it’s the perfect place for a DOF exercise with all those grey objects with words carved on them going off into infinity. And if one were doing a Decisive Moment component, it’s a good place to play with lining things up in interesting geometric patterns. I see taking photos of tombstones (and this is part of the reason I’m not interested in this for a project) as akin to target practice, like shooting cans off a fence post compared to real decisive moment photography which is much more like bird hunting. So much easier to hit a stationary target, you know. Hardly sporting.

    Regarding Frank, I’ve only seen a few pictures from “The Lines on my Hand.” I like them, but haven’t seen enough to make a go at an intelligent comment. After seeing Gladdy’s reply, I tried to download Cocksucker Blues, but ended up getting “Pull My Daisy.” Haven’t watched it yet.

  727. david alan harvey

    ROSS…

    i love the medium format film work i am doing…or,should i say i love the process…it is an unusual development for me to be one day working with the GF1 in a very playful manner and the next shooting more pulled back and deliberate with the Mamiya VII…well, why not? one seems to feed the other…i do some “deliberate” work with the GF1 when looking off the back screen as if it were a large format view camera, and i do some spontaneous work with the Mamyiya VII…so there is some crossover style…my first experience at seeing what medium format could do was with my small exhibition last spring in Madrid..seeing those 40 x 60 inch prints from the med format film was just powerful i must say…now whether the viewers of those prints really could tell the difference between those and what i might have done with digital i do not know for sure..but the size and quality did seem to have some kind of effect on them…they seemed to be particularly reverential looking at the prints…now photography of course is NOT about the prints..but the overall sense of craft when working with the medium format does have a psychological effect and i believe this shows up in the work itself…

    as i have mentioned before, with medium format i tend to back off where with a small camera i would go forward…so my med format pictures are way more “landscape” pictures than are my more intimate small camera pictures…not landscapes with trees and mountains…i mean people landscapes…..environment becomes more important to me with the medium format….my shot in the show with the father and son playing pool would have been a close up shot with a small camera and it became a whole room shot with the larger one and from a tripod no less…as i said there is some crossover…i can shoot up close and personal with the Mamiya…but it is less likely….anyway, the big piece of film is hard to resist..and i cannot wait to print some of the b&w myself…i could actually see medium format b&w becoming my ONLY thing…at least for awhile..remember i do still see myself as a b&w photographer who is temporarily experimenting with color….careful observers will see that my color work is totally referential to b&w…however, two big color projects loom…Rio and OBX…so we will just wait and see what evolves…for me , everything is an evolution and not a plan…

    cheers, david

  728. Valery Rizzo

    David…

    I have started a new project using my Mamiya 7II and am loving it (the process the prints) as well and I was wondering where you have posted (looked on your site…are they on Magnum?) some of your work done with the Mamiya 7? particularly the one you mentioned above with the father and son playing pool.

    Thanks, valery

  730. eva

    DAVID…

    Thanks for your answer! Since it’s not likely any of us will brcome flies on the wall in the next few days, would it be possible you’d screen your slideshow here, of course only after the OBX work will have been published and given you’re allowed to do so? I for one would greatly appreciate… also seeing the pics that were in the run but didn’ make the cut..

  732. Jeremy Wade Shockley

    Paul Parker,

    Thanks for digging in the archive for those comments…very helpful. I had an idea that the GF1 had been discussed, but I missed the conversation. Thanks again.

    Cheers, Jeremy

  733. jorge prat

    Hi David, regarding your comment on using medium format, I had the luck of attending your exhibit here in Madrid, and I must say the medium format quality was stunning on every one of your photographs. My favorite was the old couple raising the flag. It was so American, so full of proud and regret. Really like it.
    I my self started a decade ago shooting with medium format. But at the end I became sick of carrying around the tripod, so I switched to 35mm and later to digital. But after looking your exhibit, I suddenly missed film and medium format, so I went to a local store to see what could I get in medium format with limited budget. I got my self a brand new Bronica rangefinder camera, even smaller than the Mamiya VII. I’m again having fun with film, medium format quality, and no tripod!. But of course it’s not as loose as a Leica or smaller camera, and the way I approach with the camera is more contemplative. And I like it.

    Just wanted to share my experience. I’m really long time reader of burn, but almost never comment, partly because I don’t feel enough confident with my English.

    Cheers
    Jorge

  734. david alan harvey

    EVA…VALERY..

    that link is not exactly correct for what you are trying to see..i have never seen that batch of pictures assembled…the top few pics are with the Mamiya VII, but most of those are 35mm digi ..shot for a No Agenda project that someone keyed in the words American Family, but that has nothing to do with my American family project…i do not think Magnum has those pictures yet…anyway, i will see what i can get posted for you soonest…

    cheers, david

  735. Thodoris Tzalavras

    Any of you living in (or regularly visiting) central London, please make a stop at Bookmarks bookshop and check out my book… holding the actual book in your hands is a quite different experience from viewing the pictures online… cheers

  736. katia roberts

    DAH–

    yes, good vibes all around, yes, of course.
    your place, your party.

    but re: speakers corner, i don’t think knowing the place (hyde pk/london)
    or that karl marx stood there is necessary info to have. i really don’t care.
    i only care about the images.
    now, you mention you had an issue with the images.
    were you then trying to bolster them up with some text?
    would you have published sans text if you had seen the stronger photos?
    that is a different ballgame altogether.

    yes, in the spirit if good discussion!
    this isn’t to pin you against the wall.
    i adore you. you know that. ;)

    .

  737. Paul Parker

    jeremy wade shockley…
    My pleasure! This was written in “Ability to tell” dialogue, i’m not sure but i think this was posted round page 30. Nothing before page 20.

  740. katia roberts

    DAH–

    you know what? disregard my questions above.
    went back and read all of what you and john have written on the matter.
    it’s all pretty clear as it stands.
    thanks.

  741. Paul Parker

    mw…
    Yes set up a workshop, it is one of the most satisfying experiences i’ve ever had. Funny enough you will find the pupils learn and so do you.
    I cannot find it right now…writing on mobile i suddenly remembered R.Frank made a documentary based on his brother… if i remember correctly his brother is mentally handicapped…i bet it probably shows another perspective on Robert Franks as a person.

  742. mw

    Was researching something else, but came across this, which may be of interest to some…

    “Life magazine dedicates 32 pages of this issue to the young photographers contest. Prize winning photographers were Dennis Stock for ‘New Home for the Homeless’, Eliiott Erwitt, drated into the US Army, who documents the ‘bed and boredom’ routine of his fellow GI’s, and Robert Frank, described by a judge as a “poet with a camera”.”

    Regarding the “wanting to see more” issue on the other thread, David, I generally agree with your point about respecting a photographer’s focus and certainly don’t want to argue it in the context of that particular essay, but I think it would be a good topic for a more abstract discussion. For example, would W. Eugene Smith’s photos of Minamata work as well if we didn’t know, and he didn’t show, something of the cause of those horrors?

    Regarding Katia’s point over there, it’s altogether possible that there are no photogenic happy moments in those kids’ lives. Some of those drugs are known for burning out pleasure receptors in the brain.

  744. Ross Nolly

    David; Thank you for the detailed response, it was appreciated. I had already decided to shoot a bit more film this year; both medium format and 35mm B&W precisely for the reasons you mentioned. For the 35mm BW I’m just going to shoot and not process anything for about 6-months. It was very interesting to hear how medium format has worked for you. Thanks! :-)

  745. Framers Intent

    mw
    Cheers for posting that, I found it very interesting. Both for the fact that all three featured ‘togs are key ‘togs in the history of things, but also because the winner was Dennis Stock who (in my experience) isn’t held in anything like the same high artistic regard as either Frank or Erwitt. Very interesting reading.

    (I also note that the prizes haven’t increased all that drastically over the last 60 years….)

  748. Charles Peterson

    PANOS,

    XD11??!! Whoa, that was my camera in high school. Awesome little camera if I recall, until I dropped it in a river and then i was really sad (and in deep shit). Have fun! Gotta get back to film myself one of these days….

    CP

  749. bob black

    MW:

    the Frank film is call Me and My Brother…..

    last year, I watched all the Frank films available in DVD (all of them are available except cocksucker blues, which you can find on the internet)….sTeidl released them, 2 volumes…….and i rented them and watched them back-to=back-to-=back over 2 days……..and then after 2 days of Frank films, wrote a long drunken post about them here at BURN….it’s somewhere in the archives…no idea where…essential viewing….

    Frank was as an important filmmaker as photographer….in fact, i don’t separate….his return to Still work is still like films…..

    as much as i cherish Americans, it is his filmwork and his books after the films that I find the most significant…and yet, undervalued…..

  750. Charles Peterson

    ROSS,

    I used medium format in a situation where one would automatically reach for 35 (film or digital) which was my breakdancing book. I found it very special and liberating. I shot just like I would 35 but of course stopped to unload every 10-12 frames (I used Mamiya 6 and 7II and a SWC with a Vivitar 285 or Quantum flash). My hit rate was a lot less than if I was shooting 35 but when I did hit it was unbelievably gorgeous and different from what anybody else was doing on the subject (if I should say so myself). It also made me feel as if I was working as hard as my subject. Anyway, I highly recommend it. DAH says he steps back when shooting it, but you might also see what happens if you step forward…:)

    CP

  751. Ross Nolly

    Thanks for that Charles. I’m spending the last bit of this week working out what projects I can shoot this year. I’m still holed up with a buggered knee, so it’s a good time for planning! :-)

    I’ve got a good supply of reasonably priced 120 film so am planning to shoot with the Holgas and am sorting out what other MF film camera I’ll be shooting with (maybe a Fuji “Trxas Leica, cos it’s in my proce range!). I’ll also be shooting BW with a Zorki and my old FM2.

    I’m really trying to mix it up this year. I think I may have freed up quite a bit of time for project shooting so need to make the most of the next 12-months. An exciting, but a bit scary time…

  753. Ramon Mas

    Hi everybody,

    I just arrived to NYC to take a short course at ICP and I’m new in town. Any locals that give me a few tips on a good lab to process 4×5 film……as well as cool place to grab a beer :) ?

    Thanks!

  754. Gracie

    BOB!!

    i get your point and i get gladdy’s point.

    i write when im upset. i write when i cant speak. i write when i cant think.
    im upset when i cant write.

    if you want to write, rant and rave and rant and sleep walk you can email your thoughts to me offsite.

    after i saw those pictures, i almost threw up. i cant say beautiful light, sense of community, powerful.
    is that a trait then for a ‘good photographer’ to view anothers and to know distance?

    sometimes i dont understand it. just dont.

  755. sam harris

    Ross…

    the good old Rolleiflex TLR has been a personal favorite of mine for many years. Great for traveling too as they are pretty light weight and not too expensive (especially the model T as it’s plastic inside).

    Something about those old manual cameras i love and miss greatly (even though they are in the cupboard only a few feet away, haven’t shot any film for a good few years now…) i’ve used them on all sorts of jobs too (always had at least one with as back-up). On jobs i usually used to hire in gear as clients used to pay (now i wish i used that money to buy the Hasselblad / lenses that were my first choice – hindsight can be a mother f-er sometimes!).

    I know the Rollei has a fixed ‘standard’ lens and not all that fast, but i still love em (400asa +1)… Also I love 6×6… Funny enough my hit rate was always way better using the Rollei than with 35mm…

    a demon i still struggle with…

    I’ve often considered going back to 6×6 and the rollei, but i love digital too… give me a Rollei with a digital back – or a decent expenses account : )))

    Happy shooting

  756. bob black

    GRACIE:

    I don’t ‘like’ Michal’s story…and some major part of me HATES AND LOATHES stories like that and photographic behavior like that….spend 2 weeks with kids on the street and then DOESN’T TELL US that the kids have already died….i saw Michal’s comment after Gladdy wrote that piss-off poem shit…had i michal posted the before me (we were posting simultaneously), i would have written something entirely different about Michal’s motives…

    my point is this….there are stories, regardless of the photographer or regardless of the viewer that should be shouted…from there it is OUR responsibility to understand we cause this….that as a photographer, the responsibility begins and ends with taking the pictures in the most true and honest way, period…michal did this, he did this with intimacy and intensity, meaning he did not shy away from the truth of that life….and that is only 1 part….but the essay does contain moments of childhood playfulness (the backspring in front of mcd’s) and tedium (tram) and giving (the last portrait)….i was IN NO WAY talking that story up about artistic this and poetic that….for me, it is a simple thing: harrowing pictures of horrendous brutality of children done by society/life that doesn’t generally give a fuck about them…

    and that is horrid…and i can only say i know some of these children personally…not THOSE kids…but some of these kids….in russia and la…and well…i dont want to personalize this, and so my comment was that as far as i am concerned all i can do is say: did the photographer, as a photographer, do what they should do…

    as a person, that is a different story….

    i felt betrayed that i didn’t know those kids had died…

    i feel angry that we’re given a story 4 41/2 years after the fact without follow up (especially when the kids have died)…

    i feel angry that my support of the telling of the subject with strong photography gets dismissed as some superficial, poetic gobbly gop….

    screw that…

    i’m here to pass judgment on photographs….to support photographers/photographic work….

    the work is strong, the essay is important…

    it leaves me hollow and the kind of picture taking that involves spending 2 weeks with street kids and not telling the audience they’re dead makes me furious….

    but the story needed to be told, needs to be told regardless….

    getting us sick or angered…

    photographs do not solve anything…never….surely not this essay…

    people like Katia do infinitely more important acts….

    but…

    maybe this will inspire/anger/break one person to get involve and help…and that might just be it….

    i know first hand…

    hugs
    b

  757. mw

    Regarding the current essay about street kids in Odessa, I’m fine with David’s thinking on the photographer’s tight story focus and the repetitive nature of the edit. I admire the work that Michal has done and the similar work of Robert Gamble and Aleksandra Zhavoronkova that Eva linked to in the other thread. And I certainly admire their motives. Perhaps it’s unfortunate, but I am not shocked or emotionally outraged (intellectually, yes) by these photos, by the fact that children suffer in the world. These are things I know intellectually and have witnessed in real life. I am not the least bit surprised. I admire Bob and Katia and others for their ability to feel more when confronted with these kinds of images.

    I recognize that I am not the intended audience for this type of journalism. I agree that people who are not familiar with these horrors, which are in their essence so common in the world, deserve to be shouted at and seriously need to be shocked. So I’m not necessarily suggesting that any particular photographer do anything differently. The work is very valuable as it stands.

    But for me, personally, beyond a curiosity in the cold, hard details of the aesthetic approach, both of capturing the photos and telling the story, I have no interest whatsoever in seeing graphic documentation of children suffering. What does interest me is the question of why children are suffering. So I imagine the ideal photo essay as one that demonstrates the fact that children are suffering and then addresses the question of why? I understand that this may be difficult or impossible to do through photographs, but it is certainly doable in conjunction with text and/or audio. Of course it’s a lot to ask of a photographer to be good at all those things and that’s what’s so unfortunate about the demise of paid work. A situation like the one in Odessa needs some combination of an accomplished writer, editor, audio engineer and producer to do justice to the story.

  759. david alan harvey

    KATIA…GRACIE

    i did not see where anyone referred to these dead children as “art”…obviously you saw it somewhere, but i would hope this was some kind of quote out of context from their actual feelings from the tragic lives of these children….i cannot imagine anyone here feeling anything other than despair when seeing this work…but the “what have we become?” line i certainly use everyday when i see this and other evolutions from a so called advanced society…i have so so many questions…primarily, how could kids end up like this? what in the world are the circumstances? i am sure if anyone knows it is you..i am ready here on Burn for you to publish again your work and whatever text you want to write…you have a blank page here Katia…please tell us what we need to know and what we do not understand…

    many thanks in advance…

    peace, david

  760. wendy

    I haven’t been able to view the current essay yet…
    But have been able to read all comments…
    And its the PASSION that I adore here on Burn….
    the power of photography…..
    VIVA!!!
    ***

  761. tom hyde

    Katia, I have often thought I should be doing something to help your work but, like most of us I suppose, life moves on and I have not. I am also not sure what I could do since, like most of us I suppose, the economic downturn has not left me unaffected. I am sure with state assistance fading, and with the even more draconian budget cuts looming in WA state, this is having a great impact on even the most basic assistance available for marginalized communities when assistance is needed the most. While I cannot help street kids in Odessa, I can certainly do something for my neighbors. Please, if there is anything I can help you with, directly, indirectly, with photos, scanning, whatever, would you please drop me a note? There was a time when I did casework on behalf of many people, and got a few people off the streets. It’s time I gave a little back again. Would you please drop me a note at tom.hyde@rocketmail.com. Us left coast burnians gotta stick together. :))

  762. Ross Nolly

    Speaking of “caring” people; I see that there are 34,035 people on Facebook who “like” Larry Towell’s “Crisis in Afghanistan” Kickstarter campaign. Pity there are only 113 backers who have got him 75% towards his goal of $12,000.

    Just imagine if only 10% of those people donated $10; that would amount to $34,035 and (nearly) 3 trips if needed. Then factor in that 6 of those donors have pledged $1,000 or more towards it (half the required amount), it shows that most people don’t really give a shit. But it’s soooooo much easier to click a “like” button….

    Or am I being unnecessarily harsh?

  764. Carsten

    Ross:

    While I wish Larry Towell best of luck, I think there are more immediate needs in Afghanistan that people will actually donate money for. Who knows how many of those 34,035 that didn’t donate to Larry Towell, actually did donate funds for food, medicine, etc? I think your criticism is somewhat unfair.

    Can’t eat those photo books.

  765. Ross Nolly

    I have thought long and hard about stories of war, street kids, drugs etc and have begun to think that unless it is a long term project that follows their lives that (for me) it’s not really worth doing them.

    Unless it is a (short term shoot) news story that would garner a lot of publicity for the problem, then it only exploits the people affected. Worse still if it’s a “I want to get my name out there, so I will shoot a drug, war etc story” type of project.

    If it is a story that is hidden under the radar, then yes probably worth doing for the photographer with the right intentions.

    I fell into a similar trap when I went to Timor; I had planned to go back at least once a year to follow up the story. But I couldn’t financially pull it off. I did spend a lot of time and money afterwards doing follow up talks and slide shows etc to publicize the situation there. But I still feel like shit for not being able to follow through on my original intention.

    I do feel that shooting/writing about the volunteers/projects etc that are helping out is probably a better way of “making a difference”, because it just may mean those helping may get more donations and make an actual contribution.

    I’m really only thinking out loud here, not making accusations, assumptions or rubbishing anyone. Just mulling over a minefield of ideas….

    Below is a related link to someone who put her money where her mouth is (so to speak) and is probably making more of an actual difference than any photo essay ever could…

    http://www.livinghope.org.nz

  767. Carsten

    Ross: why not? do you think it would be better if only those that offered financial support “liked” his project? I don’t get that logic… Don’t you think Larry Towell is happier knowing 34,035 people like his project, even if only 113 have donated money? Should he be happier if only those 113 who donated money liked his project?

    Yes, in an ideal world more people would have donated money… but we don’t live in an ideal world, and I would bet that Mr. Towell won’t complain about the number of “likers”.

  768. david alan harvey

    CARSTEN..

    you cannot eat those photo books, but $10. doesn’t buy much aid either..what, two meals for one person tops? probably $10 to an aid organization only allows $2. or less to actually get to an individual with food for example with all of the admin cost…$10. to get Larry going could help influence a congressman/woman to vote one way or the other on an aid package…yes, idealism, but i think that idealism is where Larry and others like him live…Larry will of course make his goal anyway…easy…..he is almost there as of this moment….but yes of course those 34,000 could in fact be wielding some other influence over Afghanistan, but well do we really believe that? …at the same time , as Ross said, 1 dollar from each of them would have more than done it…50 cents from each of them would have more than done it…..costs anyone 50 cents to turn on their computer and click “like”….

    cheers, david

  769. Ross Nolly

    Aid is a funny beast. I’ve had a fair bit to do with aid here in the Pacific (esp Vanuatu), and the resounding thing that always echoed through was, that because it was the Pacific and not Africa/Asia it was much harder to receive funding.

    Because “everyone” knows that life in the Pacific is a doddle. Spend all day in a hammock; catch a fish, dig up some taro, and return to sleep….

    Time and time again I was told of instances where if the cause was African (rather than the Pacific) then the cheque books would have been whipped open quicker than Homer Simpson on a doughnut. Unless of course it was a cause célèbre like global warming; where countries like Tuvalu fit the niche nicely.

    Often it was the private aid groups and individuals doing the most worthwhile work. Often the UN staff would start projects with the sole intent of “ladder climbing”; and when they received the promotion (due to the project), it failed because it was never set up to survive. It had served its purpose; a promotion for the initiator.

    Again; in Timor I watched the complete balls-up the UN were making of repatriation of IDPs; when even their own team leaders told me that they were ashamed to be part of the UN.

  770. Imants

    Tough times in Queensland, parts of the central business are in Brisbane are going under water…………. Lockyer valley that is a heartache. Fires in Western Australia … more floods down the east coast……. our holiday season changes course but we have been through this many a time

  774. Carsten

    david…

    no argument about the possible value of Larry’s project, I am sure it can raise some very important awareness. I genuinely hope he makes his goal. my point was that I think it’s unfair to criticize people that like his project but haven’t given to this particular project, without knowing if maybe they’ve contributed to some other good cause (see Ross’s post above – quote “it shows that most people don’t really give a shit”. I happen to disagree with that assessment). for most people, the amount of disposable income that they can contribute to good causes in finite, limited. if they decide to give that finite amount of $ to some other charity, does that mean they can’t “like” Larry’s project anymore just because they didn’t donate to it? does it make their appreciation of what Larry is doing any less genuine?

    hope that clarifies my objection :)

    cheers, carsten

  776. Imants

    ……….. mate rang up and said the weather is fine and sunny but the flood has hit the second story of his house with a few meters to go the 4am tommorrow should see the peak and water in his attic.

  777. a civilian-mass audience

    BURNIANS,AUSSIES…

    I am traveling…I will be hitting Grecoland by Thursday…there is available room in your
    Greek home…if you are homeless due to flooding…the key is under the third pot,next to the dead azalea…
    (I guess by now…)

    stay strong…talk soon…

    i definitely love you All …

  779. panos skoulidas

    greatest night… talked live with 3 of my heroes:
    IMANTS..
    ANTON..
    and way earlier with EVA..
    6am here , time to go to bed…
    and see y’all soon in Burn cafe (smoking section), although i got my patches and my antidepressants prescription meds once again…so we’ll be cool!

  780. panos skoulidas

    Today I’m dirty
    I want to be pretty
    Tomorrow I know, I’m just dirt
    Today I’m dirty
    I want to be pretty
    Tomorrow I know, I’m just dirt

    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    We’re dead, they’ll know just who we are
    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    We’re dead, they’ll know just who we are

    Yesterday I was dirty
    Wanted to be pretty
    I know now that I’m forever dirt
    Yesterday I was dirty
    Wanted to be pretty
    I know now that I’m forever dirt

    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    We’re dead, they’ll know just who we are
    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    We’re dead, they’ll know just who we are

    Some children died the other day
    We feed machines and then we pray
    puked up and down in morbid faith
    You should have seen the ratings that day
    Some children died the other day
    We fed machines and then we prayed
    puked up and down in morbid faith
    You should have seen the ratings that day

    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    We’re dead, they’ll know just who we are
    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    We’re dead, they’ll know just who we are
    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    we’re dead, they’ll know just who we are
    We are the nobodies
    Wanna be somebodies
    We’re dead, they’ll know just who we are

  782. Imants

    Michael most of the worst is over flood levels are close to peaking in most areas …………….once the floods recede it is those long years of rebuilding,there is also that loss of life and the unknown. The cyclone season is coming if there are heavy rains again the water has nowhere to go as the soilis saturated.

  785. david alan harvey

    CARSTEN…

    of course…agreed…i was just making a point about how little we can all give from time to time to make a big difference on certain projects…value is always going to be in our own minds with very little ever “provable”….i just am fascinated by what the net can do in this regard…if 10,000 of us gave every once in awhile one dollar for a worthy project, then as a group we would really be doing something..i am talking about our pocket change talking….i think we are going to do something here…i mentioned the Bonfire idea for us..we cannot try to finance everyone all the time, but perhaps four projects a year…well laid out and discussed in new section…anyway food for thought…and just trying to maximize untapped resources…i am sure you would agree that we should all try to do our bit…and also be on the receiving end when appropriate as well..thanks for thinking as always

    cheers, david

  787. eva

    Panos ;))

    You went to bed early.. in the morning!

    Got my prints from the exchange with Mike R. today.. nice BURNing day :)

  788. Paul Parker

    “Quality doesn’t mean deep blacks and whatever tonal range. That’s not quality, that’s a kind of quality. The pictures of Robert Frank might strike someone as being sloppy – the tone range isn’t right and things like that – but they’re far superior to the pictures of Ansel Adams with regard to quality, because the quality of Ansel Adams, if I may say so, is essentially the quality of a postcard. But the quality of Robert Frank is a quality that has something to do with what he’s doing, what his mind is. It’s not balancing out the sky to the sand and so forth. It’s got to do with intention.”
    (Elliott Erwitt)

  789. Framers Intent

    DAVID,
    I’m mad busy until at least April and likely June (working on the Look11 photo festival and organising exhibs there for Civi and others), but I’m interested in this fundraising idea you have, and I do have some experience from my days in politics. I don’t know how much I can help in the planning/promo of it, but feel free to buzz me on it in the spring and I’ll do what I can.

    And to back up Carsten’s point, I “liked” the Afghanistan project knowing it would bring it to the attention of my friends, some of whom are in a position to act in a fairly big way if inclined. That’s how FB and Twitter work – mass dissemination of projects and ideas. Alas, it tends to be the total chaff that gets the widest audience, but as long as the good stuff gets to the right people, I guess that’s enough. But yeah, the long tail is an interesting concept.

    CIVI,
    I’ll water the azalea for you. ;-)

  790. Lee Guthrie

    Thought some might find this clip interesting; never know when or where we might turn up after we are gone…

  793. Paul Parker

    Lee Guthrie…
    Amazing story… maybe Vivian Maier will finally go down as one of the great street photographers… who knows only time will tell, a little too early yet. Her fine, touching, puzzling images and also because she apparently shot entirely for herself, without concern to anyone’s tastes but her own and her own tastes were seemingly spot on. That’s quite an artist.

  794. panos skoulidas

    Eva yes…
    i just had an amazing skype session with Thomas in Germany and made my morning/afternoon…!
    gotta go do couple errands and if anyone wants to chat photography hit me up later at skype address
    venice10001
    or find me by email innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com
    need to go for breakfast asap (although its dinner time)

  795. Justin Partyka

    David,

    Please contact me re. Fenland photographs. The book will be out very soon and a six week show of the work went up today.

    French gig is next priority, off to festival press conference in Paris next Tuesday.

    Interesting to read the discussion about the support and lack of for Larry Towell’s project. I think these on-line based funding sources have to be seen as part of the answer but not the full answer in getting support for projects. You are right about the $10 thing – would not go far via an aid agency I’m sure.

    It’s been discussed on Burn before, but for many people with a bit of disposable income, just going without their coffee and muffin for a day and giving that money to Larry instead (or another photographer’s project) could really be helpful. But it is getting people into that mindset, that seems to be the hardest thing. There is “buy nothing day.” Perhaps there needs to be a “give up coffee and a muffin, and support a photographer day.”

    I’m sure there is a psychological term for it, but it is so easy to talk about these things and many people do, but getting them to act and really do it is so so difficult. I admit to being one of them. Ironic thing is that just talking / writing about it takes up more energy than giving that $10. It’s absurd!

    To change the subject completely, two recent books that I think are really worth looking at are:

    Fred Herzog, “Photographs”, published by Hatje Cantz: colour photographs from 1950s to 1970s from the streets of Vancouver mainly.

    John Cohen, “Past Present Peru,” published by Steidl. This is not just a book, it’s two books, 3 CDs, and 5 DVDs which bring together Cohen’s fifty year long interest in the people, cultures and landscape of rural Peru.

    Cheers,

    Justin

  798. Lee Guthrie

    Paul, Gordon,

    The amazing part, aside from her stunning photos, is that no one knew. She was not one to mix with people, she did her job, didn’t want people knowing her business, and went out on her days off to shoot. The number of negs they found totally boggles my mind. And did nothing with them but for herself. Still mulling that one over.

  799. wendy

    BuRNIANS
    I’m thinking about going to Look3 this june… I am wondering if this is the kind of event that you can bring a project and get some input from others, or is it too jammed packed with its own lectures, slideshows etc…. I desperately need direction with my new project and am giving myself the deadline of June to put some pieces of the puzzle together to get feed back…. Is look3 the venue? **

  803. david alan harvey

    JUSTIN….

    as Eva pointed out, Larry made the mark with Kickstarter well in advance of his deadline and before i even had a chance to do a story here on Larry which i plan to do..so in fact he had no trouble whatsoever, nor did Laura El Tantawy who here in the last week or so raised her funding for the suicide farmers in India…so i really do not hear any lament among Kickstarter fund seekers…there was a little grousing here among some, but i wrote all along that i did not see any problem for Larry…the Kickstarter model works…as you point out, it should not be the only model, but it sure puts the power in the hands of the people as to what gets done and what does not..

    WENDY..

    from time to time there have been official portfolio reviews set up at Look3…i do not know if they have a plan for doing it this year, but i will find out today for you…unofficially i am sure you can grab an arm of someone you want to see your work…just make the work very very concise to the point and clear and with 30 or fewer pictures ….only once in awhile do i see a tightly edited portfolio/project presentation….that alone will get you high marks …….it would be terrific to see you at Look3…always a lot of fun and very good shows….best fest in the U.S. i think…besides you do not want to miss the Burn slide show relating to the announcement of the EPF winner do you? so, c’mon show up..i will make sure your work is seen properly….but again, do your part please…the burden is on you to make the work easily digestible..

  804. eva

    I think you’re all aware of http://emphas.is ? Kind of Kickstarter for photojournalism.

    What I think is great is that I, as a contributor, can choose where my money goes, even if it’s only a small amount.

    Of course, for people well known and supported like Larry Towell is by Magnum and the EmergencyFoundation, it is easier.. network counts. Others like Laura have it more difficult.. the Bonfire thing on Burn to me is a great idea, because it can give photographers, pj’s, projects, the exposure they need.

  805. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    Laura may have it more difficult in theory than Larry, but i think folks will support the project if truly viable …besides, i do think that now here on Burn we have established enough credibility to give very legitimate support to a photographer if we so choose…after all we already give photographers significant funding, so our endorsement should count as i think it may have for Laura…obviously we must be judicious in who we endorse…….. yes, i have talked to the Emphasis people and, as you correctly write, it is more or less the same idea as Kickstarter…also as you point out, i did write here that we could have our own Bonfire program…

    the Burn crew is meeting soonest to look at the multitude of ideas we have and see which ones to prioritize and which ones are actually doable with the small volunteer army we have…Bonfire could be one of these, but we have not really thought of how complicated it might be to administrate and benefits, if any, to Burn….we could simply just endorse and do articles on certain individuals who are seeking funding through Kickstarter or Bonfire…i might try it myself for American Family…i had to temporarily stop that work for lack of funds ..or we could even try it for Burn itself…give an annual budget and goals and cost of doing so..including the print issue as Burn 02….we do have very generous donors here now, but putting it out there in the arena of a very wide audience could be interesting indeed…just talking off the top of my head Eva…

    cheers, david

  806. eva

    DAVID…

    You’ve got a whirlwind inside your brain, always new ideas project and options. The beautiful thing is that you’re open to just about anything.. and the even more beautiful thing is that you follow through, with your Burncrew.. of course not everything can be done, but out of this huge pot there’s always popping out something..

    I could be wrong, but often people just need a little nudge and they’re more than willing to do and give something, especially if it is made easy to follow through.. we’ll see where it goes.. I’m optimistic.. :)

  809. mw

    David, regarding your occasional talk of strobes and your upcoming workshop: what kind of flash, spec-wise, do you recommend? Should it have manual capability, auto, E-TTL or other manufacturer’s equivalent? Swivel, multi-power setting options, etc.? Thanks.

  816. Ross Nolly

    David; The Bonfire idea is great. I’m sure a reasonable fund of donations could come in, that would surely help realise a worthy project.

    Don McCullin as a guest speaker? Man; I live in the wrong hemisphere! :-)

  819. Gordon L

    Sam, Ross

    Gotta agree with you Sam, I love twin lens reflex cameras and collected them for awhile.

    I do suggest you stay away from the Rollei T however. Unlike other Rollies, it was very un-reliable and prone to wind problems. The Rolliecord is a better choice for and in-expensive user. The Vb was the last version and the best.

  821. eva

    Gordon, looks like you had a good time… sweet the picture with the girls, and the last one, like a ghost, fading out of the old year..

    But I don’t understand, I mean, you’re in Canada, I’ in sunny Tuscany, so why fid WE have snow and not YOU??

  826. a civilian-mass audience

    to All my BURNIANS…especially to my Braziliano and Australiano friends…
    be strong…be safe…

    FRAMERS …azalea is gone…I just returned back to Grecolandia…
    I have to find my chickens…and my ouzo…

    I have to check your postings,links,essays…
    hmmm…it will take me some time…BUT
    civilian is in town…and I hope …you have been out there…BURNING some images…:)

    I will be Back

  828. david alan harvey

    MW…

    there are several ways to go and we will discuss them…but see if you can go out on the net and buy a Vivitar 2500…should be some around…normally less than 30 bucks…remember that i am NOT a tech guy…i am the non tech person’s tech person…i use things that work and are simple and easy to think about…so get that Vivitar..it is a hot shoe light (or a near the camera light for it to work on auto), but you can learn so much from it…get that , then check back in…if you find it, you should use it on the red setting…yes, just two colors..red and blue…before you laugh just know that Div Soul lit with this light….do you have a camera with a pop up flash? you should if you do not…that is my one problem withe the 5D, no pop up…with this flash demo class since it is only one day, i mostly demo…no real shooting on your part..you will not know until it is over probably what you will want to do..but ask any questions you have..that is why i am here..

  829. david alan harvey

    RAMON…ANTHONY RZ

    i will be in new york next week…now washington…was going to Italy tomorrow for three days (yes, crazy) but my arm not recovered exactly to my liking , so i might to do the sane thing and drop the Italy trip….in any case, will i see you two in new york?

  835. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA,you BURNING wiki…ABELE…
    Italy…lovely Italy…
    Speechless!

    MR.HARVEY is insane…therefore his moves …are unpredictable.:)
    I hope…he will cross the waters BUT since we have only one HARVEY…and I don’t see
    any MD around BURNLAND…he better play “possum” with his arm…!
    Speechless!

    IMANTS…
    either you love him or you hate him…
    one thing I know about him…you don’t forget him…:)))
    and you my BURNIANS…you are all unforgettable…
    Speechless!

    Viva to the tribe !!!

  837. Paul Parker

    Eva…
    :)I must admit I felt like a millionaire last night, a very inspiring 2 hour talk first thing yesterday morning-yes talk!! I´ve discovered my laptop has an inbuilt microphone! on skype with the one and only Panos live from Texas!
    A brilliant landscape workshop with the kids… went out to a beautiful isolated beach cove with the most amazing light I´ve seen in a long time. Finally a lovely dinner with my best friend and wife… who has nothing to do with photography… we hadn´t seen each other in well over a year so that was great! Yes a millionaire I felt happy and fulfilled.
    And now I´m off some internal combustion…let burn and Imants melt my mind!!

  839. eva

    Paul, I’ve alway been of the idea that money counts only so much.. so many other things are so more important.. English teacher’s gonna kill me if he reads that…

  841. Akaky

    I’m not sure anyone is paying the slightest bit of attention to this thread anymore, but over on vimeo I’ve just posted this:

    I’ve never actually done this sort of thing before, so other than the fact that it’s a bit slow (or at least it seems slow to me) I would like some opinions.

  842. michael kircher

    Akaky…

    Some good street festival shots. Love the the opening photo. Also the girl taking picture at 1:15, the girl in green shirt at 1:44, little girl on grandpa’s shoulders at 5:08. (pics of lots of girls my friend!)

    Yes, the transitions are too slow for my taste. Also, try not to cut people’s feet off so much. The photos at 2:05 and 2:54 and 5:20 are examples of this.

    Over all, though, enjoyed the show. Music and all. Looks like a good time.

  843. a civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY,

    I just came back from your Braziliero New York style vimeo…
    not too slow for me…cause I enjoy the music…and the civilians…

    you…must be a tall man,my friend…:)
    keep rolling !!!

  844. david alan harvey

    ABELE

    i had to cancel the Italy trip…do not worry i am still crazy, but this was a medical decision…i am fine overall, but my left arm had some surgery and it just cannot make the trip..i will be there in july and will plan to meet with you…

  845. Anthony R.Z.

    David, sure I am waiting for you to come to New York… I guess, I will send you a private email and we arrange the most suitable time… Cheers

  847. Akaky

    MIKE/CIVI, thanks for looking. I should have caught the foot thing myself, and no, I’m not that tall; in my family I am the second shortest, actually.

  850. a civilian-mass audience

    Happy Luther King day to All of Us,wherever we are in the Universe

    “Life’s most persistent and urgent question is, ‘What are you doing for others?’”
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    I don’t know what I am doing for others
    BUT I can tell you what my jet lag is doing to me…

    AKAKY,
    I am the first shortest in my family…
    BUT they are all over 2 meters or should I say 6’5…
    oime…I wish

    a suggestion to myself first, to MR.DAH and to all my BURNIANS: REST
    “Rest is not idleness, and to lie sometimes on the grass under the trees on a summer’s day, listening to the murmur of water, or watching the clouds float across the sky, is by no means a waste of time”
    John Lubbock (English Biologist and Politician, 1834-1913)

    P.S …rest because the Lighting Workshop is almost here

  851. a civilian-mass audience

    I got this from facebook

    “David Alan Harvey
    i am teaching gonzo location strobe lighting class this saturday in new york..minimalist stuff that WORKS for me at NatGeo, on ad shoots, and used for many of my book photographs…room for three more students..contact: michelle@burnmagazine.org”

    the Lighting…

    P.S …i will inform ASAP my friends…thanks for …expanding!

  852. mw

    John Gladdy, as per your suggestion I downloaded and watched “Soy Cuba.” I loved the camera work. Dude knows tracking shots, that’s for sure. But I don’t recall the context of the conversation in which you originally recommended it. What did you want me to see? The infrared? Regarding that, “Soy Cuba” is a great example of why I go to such links to keep living flora out of my shots.

    F.I., regarding the bus photos, one can tell a story without a narrative, especially in the visual arts. Guess I missed the “79 photos” exercise aspect of it. I too like doing those kinds of exercises. You never know how they will work out, but one always gains from the effort. In that series, I really like some of the shots that show people lost in their thoughts. The pensive look you’ve captured reminds me a little of the recent essays here about strangers in a shower and dogs in cars, though it’s not a gimmick in your case.

  853. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    I’ve been thinking about your landscape images/screensavers… i hadn’t forgotten them! :))
    You realize your approach to those landscape images is plain documenting the area. Have you thought of approaching it from a more conceptual point of view.
    Por cierto cuanto hace que no practicas el Español? :)))

  855. mw

    Yes Paul, that screensaver is a bit of a mishmash. A mix of photos that may or may not relate to my Rurality project, tourist pics, and a few (12 is best) that I consider conceptual. Conceptual is, of course, a slippery word and we not mean the same thing by it. The conceptual part of my nature photo hobby as I see it has to do with color and processing. A look. What do you mean?

    Sorry, btw. Didn’t mean to give you an assignment. If that were the case, I would have made it more interesting.

  856. Paul Parker

    mw…
    :)No assignment problem I´m enjoying myself a lot!!
    But link me more pictures if you like…
    This is a difficult one to focus on personally… because if I could explain what I sensed was missing in my work I would probably still be shooting landscapes and I could tell you straight away where to go. Basically, I found my motivation/reason to create landscape images common, banal, pedestrian and that is what I feel finally burnt me out. Maybe finding a deeper way with your camera to express the motivation for heading out into those silent places… something I never managed to attain. I just would feel real bad if you become one more of those who finally let the landscape photography go by.
    I think the Elliot Erwitt quote I posted last week sums up my thoughts on this exactly…
    “Quality doesn’t mean deep blacks and whatever tonal range. That’s not quality, that’s a kind of quality. The pictures of Robert Frank might strike someone as being sloppy – the tone range isn’t right and things like that – but they’re far superior to the pictures of Ansel Adams with regard to quality, because the quality of Ansel Adams, if I may say so, is essentially the quality of a postcard. But the quality of Robert Frank is a quality that has something to do with what he’s doing, what his mind is. It’s not balancing out the sky to the sand and so forth. It’s got to do with intention.”
    (Elliott Erwitt)

  857. mw

    Paul, you don’t have to worry about me letting the landscape photography go by. I wasn’t being self-deprecating when I said that I have no interest in being a landscape, or nature, photographer. Mainly, I just enjoy hiking and being out in nature, and I enjoy photography, so I often do both at the same time. For me, nature photography is a combination of a hobby and mindfulness practice. Though, as I mentioned before, I’ve also gotten some enjoyment from being influenced by the painters of the Hudson River school. I never thought of it in terms of expressing motivation being in nature, but perhaps I accomplish some of that through the painterly influence. In that regard, Thomas Cole speaks to me much more eloquently than Ansel Adams. As for finding meaning… We commonly like to look at beautiful things. Beautiful things are, in and of themselves, meaningless. I think that’s my general problem with nature photography. I prefer work that shows how nature that is commonly perceived as ugly, or boring, is as beautiful interesting as anything else. Perhaps there’s a little meaning if that approach is successful?

  859. a civilian-mass audience

    to the Twitty:

    “The pain of the mind is worse than the pain of the body”
    Publilius Syrus (Roman author, 1st century B.C.)
    consider yourself lucky

    …pain is inevitable…can the iphone eliminate pain…hmmm?

    Love to All…I hope you are shooting…cause the submission time is coming …
    your way My BURNIANS…

  860. Mike R

    DAH, shooting with one arm – no problem. I once took photos of a Mountain Rescue team stretcher lowering exercise in the English lake District. Moving between sites I slipped on wet grass and (I could hear the wind velocity) cracked the ball of my right shoulder (saving the camera -really!). I told everyone that I was o.k. but in reality I couldn’t feel my right arm. If I had told them I would have been in a casualty bag and off to hospital; and no photographs! I managed by holding the camera in the right hand and lifting the right arm with the left hand to get what composition I could – for three hours. I then had to drive home (50 miles), steering and changing gear both with my left hand – and then to hospital.

  862. david alan harvey

    MIKE R

    shooting with only my right arm (i am right handed) is no problem…i often shoot with only one hand anyway..i like the casual feeling it gives me and my subjects…

  863. sam harris

    Haunting dream last night… a photography dream… i can’t shake it so…

    in england, snowing, late afternoon light, an empty street with an old building down one side, leaded windows, old… (oxford?) on the other side a big old oak tree, silhouetted against the sinking sun silver light, snow on the ground, snow falling in big clumps…

    i was photographing a band in contrasty b & w, full length figures walking in the street, a couple mid distance the others further back walking towards or from an old car, Rolls?, 1920’s black, big bug eye head lamps… middle of empty street, band wearing long black coats, and big hats (one wearing a top hat). They walked slowly holding onto hats in the wind and i got the perfect frame… everyone in motion, this way and that… silhouettes, cold light… like a painting by Lowry…

    then i woke up – 6 am summer in the aussie bush… warm light, orange earth and blue skies…

  864. Jason_Houge

    David – I hope the pain goes away soon. pain killers work great – but the side effects can be troublesome.
    maybe turning the disability into an ability do the digital Leicas have auto focus?

  866. Justin Smith

    DAH,

    Hope you are felling better. I had a granuloma removed from my big toe last week; fortunately, the numbing shot was the most pain of the whole procedure (damn, that shot did hurt!). Only had to take 2 1/2 of the Vicodin prescribed. Of course, I could not drink and take pain meds at the same time, so I mainly ended up drinking as normal and taking ibuprofen :-)

  867. david alan harvey

    JASON…

    i took the super pain killers the first day after surgery and of course never felt that good in my whole life….downside came fast and i decided to just ride it out

    THODORIS

    great video ..thanks…she doesn’t think the way i do about hand made books, but who cares…she believes what a book IS as do i…..she is doing something very interesting and loves books in a very special way…i want to meet this woman for sure….

  868. wendy

    sam harris
    i too have been having wild dreams…
    vivid,
    the imagery……
    I love ‘warm light * orange earth * and * blue skies’
    mmmmmmm…
    dulce suenos…..
    ***

  869. Gordon Lafleur

    Sam, you’ve just suggested the image perfectly in my head. Only dissapointment to try and realize it.

    I think a mental image can be much more powerful than a real image . I’m reminded of a photo of myself and my father when I was very young. I posted it not long ago. I’ve realized that my memory of the image was much more powerful than the reality of it. When I re-discovered the actual image recently, it was a bit of a let down. I had held the image so dear in my memory for so long it had become enhanced as it were. Upon seeing it again, I was at once happy to see it, but dissapointed. I had been moved to tears at the mere memory of this image at one time. I have never been moved to tears by any actual image.

  871. a civilian-mass audience

    MIKER,
    you are a storyteller…you are cursed for life…:)))

    THODORIS,
    thanks mate…your link inspired me!!!

    SAM,
    I dreamed your dream…
    yeah right…
    I dreamed an earthquake…hmmm…

    GORDON,
    I love your life…:)))

  872. a civilian-mass audience

    JUSTIN,
    … a granuloma…you are a BURNIAN…speed recovery is on your way…
    with some olive oil, feta cheese and wine…:)
    maybe you have to check with your cat…

    Viva!!!

  873. sam harris

    Wendy… perhaps it’s a full moon thing…

    Gordon… yep the mind is a powerful thing. i’ve done similar, searching for old contact sheets, boxes out, stuff everywhere, hell bent on finding ‘that contact with that great shot i marked but never printed’ convinced about a certain image in my minds eye – and after hours of mayhem i finally find it, and remember why i didn’t print it in the first place… oh well… at least i found that old note book :))

    Civi… huh?

  875. Ross Nolly

    I had a bit of a reality check today. I try not to moan and grizzle about things that go wrong in my life; but I suppose, inevitably I do just that. Last week a good friend asked me to help out on a shoot for Camp Quality; a charity that provides yearly camps for 5-16-year old cancer sufferers.

    Funny; at the shoot I concentrated on shooting the best images I could, so was focussed etc. Now? Pretty much just full of the feeling of how bloody unfair life can be…..

    http://www.campqualitynz.org.nz/

  876. Frostfrog

    David – I need to pay more attention to twitter. Glad you could go out and shoot and I know all about shooting with only one hand.

    I hope you heal thoroughly and quickly.

  877. Paul Parker

    One arm shooting!!
    I can top that one ha ha! One hand holding crutches and the other ”free” arm taking images with my 1dsm2 and the only good leg shaking.. :)))i quite often loose my balance and find myself lying on my back saving the camera.
    Pain killers yes i try to 36 of them everyday they are called Tri-X, side effects… a big smile on my face.

  881. Paul Parker

    David…
    Now talking seriously… take care, patience is a great healer…you’ve got to be ready for Rio. Doctors always underestimate recovery time…they told me it would take six weeks for my injury to cure…approaching 15 months now and injury still going strong but not as strong as me but anyway my injury and consequences are not usual so don’t worry. Just turn the negative side of the coin over and there is always a lovely smile waiting.

  883. mw

    For those like me who don’t usually click on Panos’s youtube links, if you’ve never seen the Johnny Cash “Hurt” video, that last link above is well worth clicking on. I’ll throw in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4dlqVlj6UA

    Funny thing about “Hurt.” One of my subjects in Rurality is a self-taught singer songwriter with a history of cutting herself. She played and sang “Hurt” for me once and I commented that I was surprised she listened to Nine Inch Nails. She said ‘Nine Inch Nails?’ That song’s by Johnny Cash.”

  884. bob black

    MW:

    though Trent wrote HURT, the album from which the Cash version is taken is necessary reading…recorded after his wife died, the entire album is about loss…and some magnificent songs….it’s from his American Recording series….produce by, yes, Rick Ruben…i think hurt is on IV, but can’t remember for sure…you should hear Cash cover Danzig….:))

    cheers
    b

  887. mw

    Yes Bob, I have all the American Recording series. Lot’s of strong stuff, though I think “Hurt” and “One” stand above the rest. If you ever want to try something along those lines that you would never possibly imagine being good, check out “Rock Swings” by Paul Anka. It doesn’t have the gravity of JC; in fact, it doesn’t have any gravity at all, but a few of the takes are enjoyable: Lies without a Face, Lovecats, and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsS811o21-kSmells like Teen Spirit in particular.

  889. Mike R

    Civi, yes, a storyteller. In the English Lake District there are lots of high dry-stone walls (no mortar / cement). When I finally reached the bottom of the fell I had to crawl through one of the holes that the farmers leave in the walls for their sheepdogs to use!

    David, one handed shooting sounds very casual – a good, non-threatening technique. I presume that you are right-handed and right-eyed? I’m right-handed and left-eyed – I switched to my left a long time ago when using manual-focus SLRs. Now I’m using rangefinders I may well try right eye again. Hope you are feeling better – looking forward to the Nat Geo Rio movie and magazine!

    Good light,

    Mike.

  890. a civilian-mass audience

    music,photography…
    your postings,your links,your thoughts…
    pain,hurt,love,sharing…
    everything blends…inside my brain…
    I realize …I am not insane…
    BURN has a soul,
    BURN is my home,
    I close my eyes…
    your vision is On…

    oime…I love you All

  891. sam harris

    Katia

    thanks so much for posting the link, i’d not heard about this movie ‘everybody street’,

    all the clips are great -very inspiring… recommended to all.

    cheers

  892. Paul Parker

    I love photographs about humans or animals…or humans and animals. But I think the art world are always thinking in terms of decoration and those kind of images aren´t as decorative and it´s too bad. Because my favourite photographs are about reality and I think historically the pictures that I love are about reality.
    Mary Ellen Mark

    Yes Katia…
    Thanks :)

  894. a civilian-mass audience

    Happy Birthday THOMAS…rock on my “everyday” friend!

    “The best kind of friend is the kind you can sit on a porch swing with, never say a word, then walk away feeling like it was the best conversation that you ever had.”

    A friend tonight taught me…how to make …hearts…
    I know…it sounds kookoo…But I am happy!!!

    P.S …thanks EVA…you keep things in prespective…Viva!!!

  897. Jason_Houge

    Hey David – I’ve had what I will call “Vitamin V” for pain and oddly it felt like a super Caffeine boost, took away all the daily aches as well as the severe pain from post-op but after a week or so of it it seems to be saving up those regular daily aches and after the pill wears off – ooooh I’d just stay in bed for a few days..

    So I don’t blame you for not using them!

    Panos – looks cool – watching now
    Thodoris – Great video – whats funny is she hates the imperfections of handmade – yet her books have similar imperfections and it’s her mini’s that MoMA wants… I think the handmade is better. not consistently but in terms of artistic control and value in the mind of a creator – surely.

  899. Jeff Hladun

    Eva, Panos:

    Thanks for the link; it’s a fascinating documentary. D’Agata’s end results remind me an awful lot of the oil portraits of Francis Bacon. Bacon’s sources were two-fold: Medical books of disfigured patients, and a photo book – I don’t know the title – done in D’Agata’s figurative style. Bacon himself was slightly disfigured in the face, another catalyst for his unique style.

    D’Agata, blind in one eye and myopic in the other, chooses to undergo his descent with a crack-whore, wine-stained in her left eye. What symmetry! Starts to make me think of the blind John Milton…Paradise Lost…” ’tis better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven”. D’Agata said he finds paradise in the end of the end.

    Gripping.

  901. mw

    Hey Paul, here’s an article related to landscapes you might find interesting. His idea of painting the air is something to which I can relate. I attempt something similar with much of my black and white photography, the cemetery slideshow being the most recent example, albeit in an entirely different manner and with significantly different results, to put it mildly.

    Feel bad, btw, appropriating and posting this online, like stealing from a friend, but I hear Harper’s is not available in Europe, or at least not easily so. So I’ll just have to think of it as helping them with their advertising. Really is a great magazine, they publish a lot of photography. Everyone should subscribe!

  903. Lee Guthrie

    Hey DAH, my friend Rebekah R. is signed up for your class. She is in the series of Sufi photos called The Turn. Actually in others too but the most beautifully in The Turn.

  904. john gladdy

    Panos

    WHY?
    WHY?
    WHY?

    I know he’s your hero and all but its just a boring docu about an old guy smoking bones with some hookers.
    The pictures though…now they are something else entirely. Strong. strong. strong.

    cant see why it would bother you Gordon. I suppose its because its a world that so many here, and elsewhere, have never encountered for real. Only as ‘stories’.
    You compare it with your own life and find your own life infinitely better..therefore the ‘other’ life must be infinitely ‘worse’. This, I believe , is a mistake. They are just different.
    I talk here as someone who lived in ‘that other world’ for a long long time. Through choice. If I told you ‘stories’ from that world you would probably be horrified…other people who have been there will laugh and say “yeah, me too.” Kind of like war stories I guess, just from a different sort of war. Only really understood by the participants. Or how shalamov can tell about Kolyma as if it were an everyday thing…which of course for those there it was. that is the beauty of shalamov..no dressing it up in lace, or horror…Tell it like it is.(would be a good book title that)
    Everything is relative. We see life through the prism of our learned sets of morals, ethics, and the sum of our own experience. And we Judge on it, even when we tell ourselves we do not.

  905. david bowen

    a couple of years ago a friend called nick was putting on a bar-bq..
    the night before the event a group of us went to the pub and he told us,
    “i’ve managed to get more than 200 sardines for the bar B”.
    an instantly grinning friend of mine replied,
    “is that a euphemism?”
    ‘no”, nick said.

  906. a civilian-mass audience

    Welcome home DAVIDB…!!!
    now…
    where is the night shift…
    KATHLEEN,MYGRACIE…ROSSY…

    wake up people…it’s THOMAS party B-day…
    and the wine is on him…:)))

  907. a civilian-mass audience

    “Life is the art of drawing without an eraser.”

    who wants an eraser…when we have BURN…
    civi

  908. Justin Partyka

    JOHN GLADDY:

    Good points made. As you say, this way of life is often lived by choice, and D’Agata certainly has made that choice.

    Yes, his photographs are very special, but I don’t think he’s a hero of any kind, or see it as “suffering for my art” either. Isn’t this a case of photography being D’Agata’s way of existing and his “lifestyle” has become intertwined with that? In theory he could stop photographing such things and be photographing landscapes in Provence instead.

    I think what this film highlights so well is just how much time waiting for the right moment is spent when making photographs. I’m sure many photographers relate to this. I certainly do. DAH often talks about all the work involved in getting to the situation when a potential photograph could be made. One of Alex Webb’s recent blog posts about being on press for his new book also refers to this when he points out that the actual time spent pressing the shutter for the selection of 30 years of photographs adds up to the amount of time it takes to say the books title.

    For those outside of our own photographic lives, what we do when making photographs would probably seem very boring to them. I found D’Agata’s life as boring as hell. But what comes out of his life is quite the opposite.

    Cheers,

    Justin

  909. eva

    So, done a bit of catching up on the links posted lately, thanks everybody.. (never trust when they tell you there’s free WIFI in a hotel.. WIFI was free, but only to a page where they ask you your credit card number..)..

    Akaky, I esp. enjoyed the Manhatten piece, nice to see the everyday of a place I don’t know.. only vaguely remember..

    Thodoris, that woman has one of my dream jobs… don’t think the same as she does about handmade though..

    John.. yes, yes and yes…

  910. a civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY,
    you are versatile…the latest videos …are working for me…
    But I am just a civilian…:)))

    D’AGATA is D’AGATA…fighting his own demons…
    You are YOU …fighting your own demons…
    when I “finish” with mine…
    then I will be gone…

    VIVA !!!

  913. Paul Parker

    john gladdy…
    I find both Gordon and you are right… You are speaking from a life you lead out of choice… Not everyone can choose the life they lead it sometimes just occurs. I’ve downloaded the film but haven’t had the time to see it yet.

  914. a civilian-mass audience

    today…I will second All of you…:)

    EVA…ok,just let me know when you will cross them…
    good mousaka takes time…:)

  915. Paul Parker

    It’s strange i speak fluent Spanish or at least my wife and Spanish friends tell me… I just brought back from the local library Cormack McCarthy’s The Crossing in spanish. I’ve been trying to read it all morning…i understand it all perfectly but can’t keep worrying i may lose some of McCarthy talented writing in the translation…so i’m going to have to switch on my Kindle and buy it.

  916. a civilian-mass audience

    Embrace the old…
    celebrate the new…
    the Crossing of our Souls…inevitable…

    PAUL…Enjoy!

    I will be back

  917. Paul Parker

    ”All my life I’ve focussed on the poor, the rich ones have their own photographers.”
    Milton Rogovin

  919. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    thanks for the article, I grew up with the latest Harpers and Vogue magazines on my grandmother´s lounge table. I´m sure that´s one of the reasons I started loving photography so early. Well it is available in Europe just that it isn´t translated into other languages like Vogue, although it isn´t cheap either.
    Painting air or photographing air interesting concept and again it reminds me of Sally Mann´s landscape images of famous American Civil war battlegrounds.http://www.corcoran.org/exhibitions/PDFs/Mann/Mann_Wall_text.pdf
    I enjoyed the article and it just proves all artists in general suffer from the same anguishes and doubts on the relevance of their work throughout history. Just seems to be human nature.
    I´m amused by Berger´s suggestion to rethink Monet´s work and look at it “as vistas onto what is universal and eternal.” But isn´t all art universal? Don´t we all appropriate all artist´s work either music, painting, photography, writing, ballet and let them arouse our dreams and memories, which finally makes us treasure artist´s work as personal. It´s just that I found him stating something very obvious.
    Have you ever seen William Turner´s paintings? http://www.william-turner.org/

  920. Gordon Lafleur

    John

    I can’t see why this film wouldn’t bother people.

    I am more intimately acquainted with drugs, pain, loss, and the underside of life that I wish I were. I just choose not to dwell there.

    People born into situations such as depicted in the film are trapped there. People who can purchase a plane ticket worth several times the yearly salary of the average Cambodian, just so they can go slumming, are not trapped there.

    I was particularly creeped out by the scene where the woman asks him “what you want from me?” and also where she asks “I tell you look after yourself, why you not tell me look after myself? Why you not mad I go with men?” She is searching for a glimmer of caring. His answer to the first question is “I want to make money from pictures of you”. There is no answer to the second question, just a blank stare.

    The creepiest part was seeing the juxtaposition of the seedy apartment drug-sucking scenes with the gallery scene, where it is all turned into “Art” and money. Gag me with a gallery opening invitiation.

    This pictures themselves? Interesting, decorative. Did I mention tittilating. Is it fine art, or is it just pictures of naked women, and a guy having sex with a prostitutes, veiled, abstracted, and made artsy by long exposure blurs.

    Finally, perhaps this documentary is genuine self-exporation, or perhaps it is just intended to increase his notoriety and print sales, perhaps he is sending her the money.

  921. Paul Parker

    What has Anton D´Agata have in common with the other Magnum photographers?
    I ask this question from total ignorance and I´m not judging Anton D´Agata´s images or way of life.

  923. mw

    Paul, thanks, that Turner’s a little too saturated for my tastes, though I realize it could be the web reproductions. Here, here, here, and here are a few examples of one of my nature/landscape painting influences, George Innes.

  926. Paul Parker

    mw…
    cezanne http://ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/cezanne/land/

    http://www.amazon.com/Thoughts-Landscape-Collected-Writings-Interviews/dp/1936102064/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295545139&sr=1-2…maybe I am too burnt out but it is always highly recomended.

    And just in case you are not aware of these books…

    http://www.amazon.com/Hudson-River-School-Nature-AmericanVision/dp/0847832643/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295545321&sr=1-2

    http://www.amazon.com/Frederic-Church-John-K-Howat/dp/0300109881/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

    http://www.amazon.com/Hudson-River-school-Louise-Minks/dp/0760717117/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295545351&sr=1-1

  928. Jason_Houge

    John G., Justin, Panos, All
    The thing with the D’Agata film, we get an exclusive look at what drives his art – we hear his decisions and see their affects, in him, those around him, and his work…

    It can’t really be said for so many that their works draws on their life in the way his does… He doesn’t live and breathe photography it’s secondary – his photographs are his well voiced expression about his life. He does dwell with whores and smokes his pains away as do many in that country. The photos he makes echo not only his life but those around him. His photos feel tormented with only brief moments of clarity. His photos are all about him self, And they are just as much about the many people who feel and haven’t found it in them selves to talk about it….

    In other words… I don’t feel like his photography drives his life – but his life drives his photography. He’s not a creator but a seer. He feels, therefore he is. and though his photographs you can see he is.
    And That’s a lesson to learn from :)

  929. mtomalty

    All good observations, Jason, but I can’t help but think he would not have been given the time of day
    or achieved the same recognition if the content of his work wasn’t voyeuristic (as in us viewing the
    work) and sexually charged.
    Had he, visually, exploited a bowl of Cheerios the same way he did his female subjects I daresay we
    wouldn’t be talking about him.

    What i walk away from the film with is , “What did Magnum see in him or,rather, what did they feel
    he would contribute to the collective?”
    Certainly, this tight body of work (pardon the bad pun) is captivating but I don’t see how he can
    progress or branch out given his choices and indulgences.

  930. Justin Partyka

    I would guess Magnum saw a photographer with a strong authorship. I certainly cannot think of anybody else who photographs like D’Agata.

    I don’t see him as exploiting anybody. The worlds he enters are complex places, with everybody out to get what they can for themselves. They are “dark” and unsettling places for sure.

    Jason made some good points about D’Agata’s life driving his photography. That is probably true. I don’t think there are many photographers around for who that is so clear.

    I’m sure I’ve seen some assignment work by D’Agata on the Magnum site, and I’m sure he is capable of photographing outside of his lifestyle if he wishes.

  931. mtomalty

    Justin,

    I should have,perhaps, chosen ‘depicted’ rather than ‘exploited’.

    I know nothing of D’Agata other that what is in the film and the few images that are returned
    when searching his name on the Magnum site.
    I,certainly, can’t argue his ‘authorship’ but, from what little I can see at Magnum, would question
    his depth or versatility and the ability of said ‘limitations’ to contribute in a financial way to the
    benefit of Magnum.

    I have seen some of Bob Black’s work that is reminiscent of D’Agata (and I say this as
    a compliment,Bob!)

  933. Jason_Houge

    mtomalty – No body lives in a bowl of cheerios… but if they did,the cheerios must have some life!
    otherwise you’ve basically compared his photography to that of studio work with nothing but white walls to look at. static, emotionless, dead.
    In many ways it’s much the was he described it in the film – as acting. In a motion film, it’s what the actors bring to the table that make their characters believable or not. In photography, if you’re photographing your life – whether you’re in front of the lens or behind, what do you bring? It was explained that D’Agata abused the woman… He beats him self, he beats her.. he’s destructive.

    His visual style may be a product of his eye sight, it is certainly different, but the voice and subjects aren’t too different than that of Larry Clark, Francesca Woodman, or maybe even Danny Lyon for that matter.
    All are/were quite capable of making lots of money for someone doing their photo work, but it wasn’t really in their heart to do it for anyone but themselves. In a way – it’s reaching out – not for aid, but for support. A way to say “pray for me” as they try to stay strong and live their life and see it to the end.

    I was fortunate to briefly meet D’Agata in NY during the last couple of days at DAH’s Workshop in ’09. I didn’t talk to him much then, he seemed elsewhere, He had just come in, I figured he was tired. I know I sure as hell was.

  934. bob black

    PAUL/MW:

    well, will expect both of y’all to comment when i give david my project, made for Burn…yup, it’s about landscape….originally, had worked on the 3rd chapter of the book as special Burn-only project, then in august, decided to give them something different….came as a result of both a trip and also the discussion here of what constituted landscape photography (i hate most)….my own, yes, is a dialogue with Turner…but also schiele …and most important chinese scroll paintings and chinese calligraphy…it will be very abstract ;))….who knows if anyone will see it as landscape anyway….

    but since y’all are talking about this, after turner and cezanne and (may i add albert pinkton ryder), don’t forget klimt and schiele’s landscapes….

    here is my beloved Schiele trees

    http://www.google.ca/images?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1551&bih=853&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=egon+schiele+trees&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=

  939. bob black

    Antoine is a person, first, above all….a photographer….i think many have confused the documentary (filmmakers annoyed me) with both Antoine as a person and Antoine as a photographer, both of whom deserve respect….

    there are few photographers who are as honest about both who they are as a person and what they do as photographers as Antoine, period….i think many many many confuse the ‘subject’ of his work (let’s say that dealing with drugs, prostitution, fringes) fall victim to the seductive nature of the imagery, instead of delving into what lay at the center…..remember, antoine is the actor/character in most (not all) most nearly everything he has ever shot (other than assignment work, and even that too)….

    antoine did not go to that room for the film….the filmmakers began 3 years prior…..

    and antoine is still poor and essentially without material gain from the work and i think a lot of people (here and elsewhere) make a profound mistake when assessing antoine, the man, and his work….he was who he was LONG LONG LONG before he was with magnum…long before he was with Vu…..

    i think the film, while intense, did a disservice…actually, misunderstood both what he says and how he lives and what his work means….

    but, like i said, i’ll write about antoine and his work this weekend….

    but, he and his work are alot more honest than most of the ‘journalism’ i see, and especially, more than most of the work i see by folk covering these issues….but, as i said, more about that later ;))

  940. bob black

    one that that is GREAT and TRUE about the film and what Antoine speaks of is this:

    the world of being a photographer (contrary to all the bullshit hype on tv, films, blogs, blogs, festivals, seminars, workshops, etc) is NOT all sexy/beautiful/HD-color/action….being a photogrpaher means tedium, tedium, tedium….looking, waiting, thinking….mundane, mundane, mundane…waiting….

    but the point of that film,…or rather, Antoine’s point is something more elemental….more about searching for authentic awareness…which for many (including myself too) involves stripping, as possible, away…hurting self and honing self…concentrating on breath…meditation…sometimes that is about total annhilation, loss, hurt….

    he is not Using her….though he is used by the filmmakers….and in THAT state when he is photographed, he mentions about making money with her as a kind of plea….being in a release/submission/raw/broken say and offering her, through the haze of both the smoke-state and his breaking state that he will make something for her, shared with her….knowing he can’t explain why he is doing this….

    how does one explain to another what they do when connected, or bargained….’i’ll give you a print if i photograph you’…’i’ll see u pics’…i’ll publish these for you….look i’m a journalist/studio phtoographer/fine artist…..they all say that….and he is attacked for giving more essence…

    anyway, more about this with more lucidity this weekend…

    running
    b

  941. Valery Rizzo

    Hi David – you mentioned the Vivitar 2500 flash unit and I wondered if you or anyone else for that matter has used one with a digital Nikon camera? ofcourse Nikon will not recommend you use a third party flash with their cameras and Nikon’s do tend to use dedicated accessories. I would like to try a Vivitar with my Nikon D300 but don’t want to risk damaging my camera. What do you think David? or anyone? Thanks Val

  943. panos skoulidas

    Antoine?
    remember if u watched the film when he said his “explanation” about prostitution?
    “i can i imagine way worst ways to SELL out…..”
    PROSTITUTION IS A “condition”,,, a way to survive when someone has NOTHING LEFT TO SELL…
    drug/crack abuse?
    im not getting into that….watch the movie again

  944. panos skoulidas

    Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
    Jim Morrison

    Film spectators are quiet vampires.
    Jim Morrison

  945. kathleen fonseca

    Civilian..Ross..Wendy…DAH..Gracie…Lassal..

    all the tenderest of hearty tenders, the heartiest hearts..i want to say hello, and the deepest thanks for keeping me on any kind of burner, front, back, it doesn’t matter..you kept me on simmer while i simmered in the background. I wish you all well..

    Civilian, you’re still burning..ahhh, how it does me good to know that..David..an operation? an infection? I am alarmed! I hope you are well soon..

    Antoine D’Agata..i met him here in CR..saw a slide show that took my breath away and never gave it back. I always loved his work, but seeing it so big, so in my face..it was astounding. He? Hard to get a handle on because of the language difference. After all that he had seen and experienced he oddly struck me as an innocent. As if he’d been purified by all that fire he had walked through with his camera. He was impassive; a bit like an alien in a world that made perfect sense to him and yet the locals could not return the favor. He seemed untouchable, a being that sort of levitated above the crowd in a calm and quiet fashion perplexed and bemused by the confused and somewhat horrified reactions to his work. He did not get what the big deal was all about. Right and wrong were indistinguishable and actually the same thing at the end of the day. The only true good lies in the heart of the matter, the heart of the subject. What kind of camera he used, how he used it, he just shrugged. None of that mattered. Nor did mainstream success. He seemed above that as well. I might have it all wrong. After all, it was almost impossible to understand what he said. But these were my impressions. I will never forget him. And his work..ahhhh, his work.

    Best to all
    Kathleen

  946. kathleen fonseca

    by locals..i mean those in the audience..not his subjects.i got the impression that he greatly respected his subjects and that some were serious lovers of his..not all were prostitutes. I was greatly moved by his humility and dignity and so impressed by his graciousness and the way he honored his subjects. He is what he is. Very genuine.

  948. Gordon Lafleur

    Kathleen

    How wonderful to hear your sweet voice again here.

    D’Agata? I’m waiting to be convinced what a sweet wonderful guy he really is. Viewing the film, all I feel at the moment is “horseshit horseshit horseshit”.

    I’ve just spent an hour on the phone with a cousin, whos brother, obviously another cousin, is a major addict. He was sent to an oudtrageously expensive private rehab last year, but has re-laplsed. He called my mom today and said “don’t tell my mom, but I’m puking blood?. He has been threatenining suicide for months. I don’t think he takes pictures.

    Two other members of my own immediate family have serious drug issues, and major mental health issues.

    Now I have no idea of D’Agatas background. But I suspect he does not come from poverty, or from a backgroung that is connected with the kind of shit he plays with. I may be completely off base, but, I suspect he is like many artists who like to walk on the wild side for artistic inspiration, and comes from a solidly middle class background. He indulges, plays, in sleaze tourism, but has the luxury of knowing he can step out of it anytime he pleases. It’s all pretend, all for art.

    Horseshit.

    Maybe I’ve got it all wrong, but my feeling is that he has absolutely no fucking idea.

  951. eva

    “..not all were prostitutes”

    Even if so, can prostitutes not be lovers, be loved, love? Where’s the difference in this between you, me and them??

  952. kathleen fonseca

    Hi Gordon

    :)) Thanks for the hearty welcome!

    I am so sorry for your cousin, sorry for your whole family. Addiction is tragic.

    I didn’t see the film..i saw D’Agata in person, listened to him, met him, saw his slide show. I too have/had major drug issues in my family..all the above..my brother died of Aids. I don’t take D’Agata’s methods or vices personally. I do however take his work extremely personally. I think he puts himself out there in the most vulnerable of ways. He brings us into the darkness with him. He shares where he’s been, doesn’t cover it up, doesn’t brag or boast or whine or complain. When he shows his work, Gordon, his manner is utter simplicity. Each shot that flashes on and then off the screen makes one wince , want to cry out or get sick or cover one’s eyes. And he stands up there as his life is stripped down to the marrow..that takes guts. Huge amounts of guts. And yet he’s gentle, dignified, plain, sincere, a bit removed from the audience as if he isn’t completely there with us. It’s hard to explain. People in the audience were appalled and offended at worst; confused or silent at best. Nervous overall. D’Agata simply was. I would not want to go where he’s gone to take those pictures. But those places are real, those people are real, what they do is real and he brought that into the light and i think those photographs are beautiful beyond description.

  953. kathleen fonseca

    eva

    yes, you make an excellent point. You’re right, of course :) And i think that’s D’Agata’s point as well. Don’t we all have darkness within? Isn’t that why i/we find his photographs so beautiful? Because there is so much truth in them and that truth is in all of us to one degree or another.

    Thanks for bringing up your important point.

    best
    to you
    k/

  954. a civilian-mass audience

    ROSSY…WENDY…
    wake up…
    there is an imposter …someone claims to be our KATIEEEE…

    KATIEE,are you the Street Fighter…my Sword Tongue…?

  957. a civilian-mass audience

    KATIEEE…

    I was ready to contact your locals…over there…to find you…
    Thank you for checking in…
    WE ALL LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU…

    Today,my best wine is on the table…
    I am the happiest civilian in the Universe…

  958. kathleen fonseca

    Civi

    No imposter but a bit of a zombie at this hour..how are YOU? I may not even be able to wait for your answer as it is sooooo late..all i can say is i am sorry for vanishing but i had to do things..still have to do things, hard and important things but i saw your comment tonight on my blog and it broke my heart..how long i have disappeared and made people worry..please forgive me, my Civilian friend..

    xoxoxoxoxo

  959. a civilian-mass audience

    “What can you ever really know of other people’s souls – of their temptations, their opportunities, their struggles? One soul in the whole creation you do know: and it is the only one whose fate is placed in your hands”
    C.S. Lewis (British Scholar and Novelist. 1898-1963)

  960. kathleen fonseca

    Civilian..you make me giggle..i love you all as well..i was mending..you can understand, no? i was sick till the end of August..it’s taken this long to be back to normal. But it’s ALL good! As i hope you are and everyone..i am worried about DAH though..hmmm…

    tossing back the wine too, haha..but now must sleep..yoga tomorrow..yes, yoga..

  961. kathleen fonseca

    Civilian:
    “What can you ever really know of other people’s souls – of their temptations, their opportunities, their struggles? One soul in the whole creation you do know: and it is the only one whose fate is placed in your hands”

    YESYES..where do you get these amazing quotes so fast, just in the nick of time?

    You are so the best..i have missed you..

    now, in the immortal words of Gracie..

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

    must do the drift..off to dreamlandZZZZZ

    bye!

  962. a civilian-mass audience

    KATIEEEEE…
    have beautiful dreams tonight…sending good energy…

    damnit, I can’t stop smiling…what a beautiful morning for me…

    BURNIANS…thank you

  965. Paul Parker

    Here´s a interview with Anton D´Agata, I can´t link to the interview so I´ve just pasted it here…

    Antoine d’Agata and I are peering at his photographs on a computer screen at Magnum Photos in Paris. They show blurry faces of ecstatic, open-mouthed women and were taken at the exact moment when they reached orgasm. The images reveal how d’Agata’s approach to photography has become more concentrated, precise and tight. We’ve been talking for nearly an hour and are now getting to the heart of what d’Agata is working towards today.

    “During the last few years, my space has become reduced, reduced, reduced, reduced,” he says emphatically. “I continue to deepen my photography and my space becomes more restrained. A room, a bed, a syringe, two bodies. And today I don’t photograph sex anymore but the moment of orgasm. It’s no longer the streets, the bars, the rooms or the sexual act but a small end of the sexual act that interests me. For me, the mouth is an important organ; it can swallow the world and spit it out.”

    The aesthetics have also changed; the faces in some of the images appear distorted, even disfigured, immediately bringing to mind the paintings of Francis Bacon. “I found an affinity with Bacon and the dissolution of the flesh, how the bodies deform and disappear,” he concedes. “We leave the body and come back to the meat. Today I’m trying to stay anchored in the flesh, in the meat, in the body, in total atheism. Of course, there are lots of photos that could be spiritual, though, where there’s this kind of obscurity and spirituality.”

    D’Agata’s decision to focus on the moment of orgasm is cerebral. It’s connected to how, after a decade photographing the milieu of the night, he has acquired a more accurate understanding of the relationship that some prostitutes have towards their bodies. “Often I have the impression when I photograph these people, who don’t have a political or economic voice and who live marginally, that the body is the last possession. And you do what you can to give joy to the body. The orgasm is the last thing you have access to. Sometimes when I meet prostitutes, you see a desire to appropriate their body to survive mentally, to use it in an extreme way with certain wildness, barbarism, sensations and drugs. It’s perhaps through frustration in relation to the wealth we see on TV screens and billboards.”

    D’Agata, 47, articulates thoughtfully despite being jetlagged. He has just got back from a brief trip to Brazil, where he is participating in an exhibition. Earlier this year, he spent five months in Cambodia. In two days, he is off to Norway to run a workshop for upcoming photographers. After each trip, he pops backs to Paris for a few days to recharge before catching the next flight.

    This kind of nomadism became a lifestyle choice long ago. It is the frequent encounters with strangers, the unexpected discoveries, the intoxication of the drugs, and the inherent tension and instability that all this involves that keeps his pulse racing, providing the excitement and energy he craves. “I lived 12 years like that, from the age of 17 to 30, travelling in Mexico, the US, South America and Europe,” d’Agata says. “The exceptions are the periods that I lived in Europe.”

    When I ask him where he keeps his belongings he replies, “Here.” Reading my confused expression, d’Agata leaps up and leads me into a small storage room to which he has sole access. “This is my home,” he says, widening his large eyes and pointing to two black suitcases, five small black bags, three pairs of shoes, and several boxes and black files. “Here are my clothes, my books, my shoes, my cameras, my contact sheets. I decided five years ago to no longer have a home or a base. My whole life has become nomadic, with the experiences that you see in the images. I feel more at ease with myself like this even if some mornings I wake up with half of my life in a hotel room. I hope I haven’t become someone sad.”

    For d’Agata, who was born in Marseille in the south of France, life and photography are intrinsically intertwined. He started studying at the age of 30 at the International Center of Photography in New York, where he met Nan Goldin, who was teaching at the ICP. This year, she has invited him to participate in the fortieth edition of Les Rencontres d’Arles photography festival in the south of France of which she is the guest curator.
    “Nan Goldin was working, year after year, with the same group of close friends; for me it was the opposite,” d’Agata says. “To work, I need to meet and discover people without necessarily staying with them. Nan Goldin and I have different references but the same intensity to always go further in our experiences.”

    He has always been obsessive, pushing things to an excessive extreme. “Sometimes I get back from my trips completely shattered,” he admits. “I’m constantly going back and forth between these experiences; it’s like a sort of monstrous ballet between the flesh and my thoughts. Returning to Paris to change planes or change my films helps me find a distance and forget the stupid things I’ve done. Photography enables me to review what I’ve done and described. When I see the images, I remember everything: the smells, the feelings, the dreams… I remember every small detail and it becomes very difficult. Seeing it from the exterior is a very strong experience, seeing the “too much” of the situation and emotions.”

    Yet lately d’Agata has found himself in a quandary. Whilst in Cambodia, he was spun out on crystal methamphetamine, nicknamed ice, for most of the time and nearly discarded photography; its importance paled in comparison to what he was experiencing. “There’s an unresolved contradiction; the more I push the intensity of these experiences, the less I want to photograph them,” he reveals. “During the last few months, I reached the effects where I no longer needed photography. Ice is an artificial drug that gives a permanent intensity and as soon as you stop you’re no longer satisfied with the normal effects of emotions and daily experiences. I’ve come down now and regret that I don’t have any images of that time. At Phnom Penh, I had the feeling that I could have chosen to forget photography and stay there. It took me a long time but finally I decided not to stay and to get out. Whether it was the right decision or not, I don’t know.”

    It comes as a revelation that during the five months there d’Agata only used his camera once. “There’s one photo somewhere where we see the bedroom and the drugs,” he says. He pulls it up onto the screen; it shows a skinhead, tattooed woman sitting at a table covered in the leftovers of drugs. “I spent five months with her but I only photographed her once. Of course, we’re always responsible for the photos we make but today I have everything but the impression of exploiting the situations I’ve seen,” he adds.

    Thinking back to the dilemma he mentioned earlier, he continues, “What interests me is to return to those intensive effects and find another way to bring back images and keep a trace of those mental states.”

    Increasingly, d’Agata’s images are being taken someone other than himself, and this appears to be one solution available to him. After closing the windows, controlling the light, and explaining what he wants, d’Agata often hands his camera over to someone else. “Today the best photos aren’t taken by me but are those that people take of me and that have a mystical or spiritual mystery,” he says. “I lead people to photograph in my own way so that I manage to maintain a coherent language. At the same time, I’m aware of letting each person give their own vision and subjectivity. What interests me is this idea of their perspective to deepen my vision of things. But you never know what you’ll get. There was one girl who asked me if she could photograph me. I said, ‘Yes, yes, yes,’ and when I turned round I realised that she had photographed me from behind. She wanted to mock me a bit and in the images that she took you just see my backside.”

    This lends d’Agata’s photography its conceptual and performative character that defines his exploration into documentary work. This is something for which he feels utter conviction. “I put my life on stage to find the truth about my theory of documentary photography,” he asserts. “Today, my photography is more honest and authentic than most documentary photography being made; it’s about how to make documentary photography that is the fairest, the truest, the purest and the most extreme. I’d says it’s a conceptual work on how photography changes the nature of your gestures, your acts and your life so that the game has an extreme side.”

    This belief in authenticity has informed d’Agata’s decision to generally refuse editorial and commercial commissions and to not belong to a gallery. “As soon as I find myself in a situation where someone says to me, ‘Make me a report on this’, the content seems false,” he continues. “There’s no relationship with the people that I’d be photographing. Everything that justifies my photography isn’t there. I don’t feel the right to photograph someone in the street. With someone in the street, I find myself in a completely superficial opposition. I accepted a commission from Magnum to go to Georgia this year but apart from that, I live by doing workshops.”

    Indeed, while some of his contemporaries at Magnum are juggling advertising campaigns, magazine shoots and personal projects, d’Agata is focusing on a singular voyage. “The profession of photography doesn’t interest me,” he stresses. “I’m interested in photography as a language; I want to continue using photography to talk about things that no-one has talked about before and to show things that no-one has shown before, or at least try. A bit of money is enough for me. The aim for me isn’t to live better but to live more.”
    When I ask whether he is ever concerned about the impermanence of his lifestyle, he says, “I’ve never been worried for myself and I need this impermanence. One morning in Brazil, someone jumped on me in a dodgy street but violence is part of this way of living. But I have four daughters – two in Marseille, one in Paris and one somewhere else – and sometimes that worries me; what I give them is far from being… Sometimes I live with this regret of not spending enough time with them. But for myself, I live in equilibrium with my body and my experiences.”

    Yet what counts ultimately, he reasons, is the photography that results from all this. “Whatever the intensity of the experiences, whatever somebody’s beauty or violence, what remains is the photo,” d’Agata says. “And it works or it doesn’t.” To illustrate his point, d’Agata pulls up a photo of a woman’s back. “This is a Mexican girl in the US who smokes crack,” he explains. “She’s incredible and beautiful. But what works for me is her back. Full stop. Is that fair or unfair? It’s an image that can’t claim to tell and justify everything but what’s important for me is that she has entered a memory and my life. And photo-by-photo, I never have the feeling of wasting my time. It’s an enormous chance to have succeeded in creating a harmony between that which I am and what I do and see.”

    Some time after he has photographed people, d’Agata hires an interpreter through whom he can discuss his work more carefully. “During the experience itself, you can’t have a translator,” he says. “What’s interesting is that you live things in the moment, instinctively, and at the end you really communicate details and nuances with words. Sometimes you realise that you misunderstood someone.”

    Yet d’Agata realises that many of the young women he has photographed would find it hard to look at themselves in his work. It might further remind them of the harsh conditions of their lives. “The majority of the girls will never see the photos,” he says. “I believe that a lot of them wouldn’t recognise themselves if they did. But I know when chance means that I can show the images—because there’s an exhibition or a book or because I’m back in the same place, which is rare—people find the images hard but understand them. A young gypsy prostitute that came to the conference in Istanbul and who I’d photographed the preceding days exploded when people were asking questions about my work. She said, ‘That’s enough! You just need to look at the images to understand them. There’s no need to ask questions.’ She was 18.”

    The physical closeness and the shared experiences means that the people d’Agata photographs quickly grasp what he is trying to achieve. Referring to his only film Aka Ana, in which seven young Japanese girls talking about their relationships, orgasms, life and love, he says, “A girl who is 18, a junkie and a prostitute understands [what I’m looking for] immediately. Even if they haven’t studied and aren’t artists and philosophers, they live that joy, fear, love and pain – everything that interests me.”

    Later, when we are sitting in a café near Magnum Photos, d’Agata explains what dissuades him from revisiting places. “I always need to discover different places not by desire for exoticism but because of a need to keep tension. When you return, you immediately create a family in this milieu of the night. People adopt you. When I came back here from Georgia, two prostitutes that I’d photographed took me to the airport. Just like friends. Your mistresses become like your sisters. And I know that if I go back to Georgia I couldn’t photograph those girls again. When you know people there’s tenderness, and for me tenderness is not a sufficiently fertile ground. As soon as I feel in a situation of confidence with people, I have to leave and don’t take photographs.”
    With that, d’Agata stands up and goes to pay for our coffees before graciously saying goodbye.

    TEXT BY ANNA SANSOM

  966. bob black

    GORDON:

    well….that IS EXACTLY why i loathe people talking about people who they do not know….

    that HAS TO BE one of the saddest comments written…

    and another reason why i often hate when photographers pronounce on others work and their character…

    i will not dignify your comment exact this:

    you have it EXACTLY BACKWARD….about antoine, his background, his life, etc…

    next time, PLEASE do a bit of research before you go all half-cocked off about someone and their life….

    i am sorry to hear, and understand why his work may anger you, or particularly the film (remember, this film is not his film)….and i also think it is unfair/unfounded to judge another person (who you do not know) by your own life/family experience…ironically, having dealt with similar issues (first hand too), lost 2 close friends (1 od, 1 to a bullet), why is it i don’t have the same hateful rant?….

    regardless of what you think of his work (that is a fair assessment if that is how you feel), you have made a sorrowful judgment on someone’s life, background, character of whom you know not a thing about…

    i hope you regret your words, sincerely

    bob

  968. aitken

    Sad story and a desperate view on the world of the photo industry at the moment.

    Penny Tweedie takes her own life “despair at the worlds lack of use for her craft” as the guardian reports.

    Ian

  970. mw

    Sorry, I’m not seeing what’s so wrong with Gordon’t take. I don’t like ignorant speculation on people’s character either, but guessing that someone is from a middle class background falls pretty low on that scale of evil. And someone above says that D’Agata sometimes beats the women before photographing them. If that’s true, dude should be in jail, not Magnum. I’m curious how you all justify that kind of behavior? Hopefully, that’s not true, but regardless, it’s not the end of the world if Gordon doesn’t like the man or his work.

    Though regarding middle class background and drug tourism, I’d think Gordon would know from experience that it’s mostly not a class thing. Part genes, part outlook, part a lot of things, but getting high and fucking prostitutes is not just sport for the poor and unwashed.

  971. kathleen fonseca

    Paul Parker:

    That´s quite (long pause) an amazing interview. Thanks for posting it here. It certainly fills in so many blanks for me. I´m sure i will spend a good part of the day pondering this man, his lifestyle and his photos.

    Thx again
    K-

  973. Paul Parker

    kathleen fonseca…
    I will be pondering this man as well, just started watching the film… been scanning and shooting too many images this week! My problem is my usual ambiguity on all things in life leads me to sympathise with Pano´s, Bob Black´s, Gordon Lafleur´s, John Gladdy´s and Mw´s view on this man!!

  974. eva

    Paul… thanks for posting the interview.. I’ve seen the exhibit in Arles curated by Nan Goldin, must say I prefer his eralier work over that shown there.. Mala Noche is more my thing..

  975. Paul Parker

    Eva…
    My pleasure, everything for Burn and I think I´ve dethroned Bob Black as longest comment in Burn history!!:)))

  976. eva

    .. and.. the question is not to have an opinion pro or cons or both, but how you form your opinion.. that is I think where Bob B has a problem with Gordon’s take.. which of course is none of my business..

  977. Paul Parker

    Eva…
    Yes, yes… well I´m watching the film right now and I can understand it isn´t everyones cup of tea…

    “First of all,” he said, “if you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you’ll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view […] until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.”
    To Kill a Mockingbird

  978. Gordon Lafleur

    Bob

    In the light of morning, I do regret my rant. You are correct of course that I know little about D’Agata other than the film, and some internet cruising.

    I had just had a very un-happy telephone conversation, and was full of anger about the stupidity of it all.
    I blew my stack I’m afraid. I’m embarrassed.

    I still have strong negative feelings towards this work however.

  979. panos skoulidas

    (sorry for bragging but the new IZ MAGAZINE (ARA GULER)
    is out..please subscribe..(u can also find it it in magnum offices in NY im sure)
    new issue featuring the iconic BRUNO BARBEY….
    and!!! the tortured “DEATH IN VENICE” piece ..
    and guess who is on the front page with a cigar hanging from his mouth…

    http://www.fotografevi.com/iz.asp

    (hit the translate button)

    good morning y’all

  980. Valery Rizzo

    Hi David – you mentioned the Vivitar 2500 flash unit and I wondered if you or anyone else for that matter has used one with a digital Nikon camera? ofcourse Nikon will not recommend you use a third party flash with their cameras and Nikon’s do tend to use dedicated accessories. I would like to try a Vivitar with my Nikon D300 but don’t want to risk damaging my camera. What do you think David? or anyone? Thanks Val

  981. wendy

    Kat F
    yes!!! can’t wait to read your delicious words……

    P
    CONGRATS

    DAH
    better?

    All,
    can’t wait to catch up on comments and watch film….
    intrigued….
    **

  982. emcd

    D’Agata: My life has brought me close to many spiritual practitioners & seekers, to many who work for the good and are filled with much light. I feel blessed for the time spent with them; and the moments, tho few, that I shared with Antoine can be counted among the most peaceful, sincere and heartfelt that I have known.

  983. Gordon Lafleur

    Bob, Kathleen, emcd, all

    emcd, thanks for your perspective.

    Kathleen/Bob

    We all judge. Many it seems, have judged D’Agata to be a gentle, tormented person who is brave enough to bare his soul and gives us a glimpse of the interior of his mind, and thereby enriching our lives.

    By saying “do not judge”, what people really mean is “do not judge harshly, judge like me”

    If I posted snaps on a porn site of myself here having sex with a third world prostitute , you wouldn’t judge me?

    If I posted ARTISTIC snaps of myself having sex with a third world prostitute on Burn, would you judge me differently?

    In the first instance I’m an sleazy exhibitionist, in the second, I’m a tortured artist baring my soul?

    That D’Agata is a talented photographer is not in question.

  984. Gordon Lafleur

    continued

    No-one would put this sort of work out there and not expect to be judged. We are invited to judge. Controversy and notoriety is encouraged, expected, welcomed, and ultimately helps feed the tortured artist persona.

  985. eva

    Gordon, I guess it depends on what you see, in D’Agata’s pictures and the film.. or read in the interview (without even going to research more on the net). If all you see is porn, then I ask myself: why? Does that not depend more on you than on him?

    Besides that, how can one judge another without knowing him? To talk about the work is one thing, about the person is a different thing.. if we go so far I think it would be fair to know more..

    I have doubts that a photographer or an artist making less controversy work is less ‘tortured’, as you express it… not saying that everybody is, but making ‘clean’ work doesn’t mean one is ‘cleaner’ inside.. D’Agata looks straight at himself in a mirror, and holds up a mirror right in your (mine, our) face.

  986. Frostfrog

    Damnit, Panos!

    As usual, I have not had the time to keep up with the burn discussion the way that I wish I could, but this morning I thought I would at least skim through the last couple of pages and see if I could get some kind of feel for what is going on.

    So right away I saw that you were posting a few links. I knew that I could not take the time to look at them all, but I picked one at random and it was Johnny Cash, singing Hurt. Of course, being one who loves Johnny Cash and who got to spend an afternoon with him once, I had seen it but still I watched it again and it was even better than before.

    Then, since it seemed to have generated some discussion, I clicked your “antoine d’agata” link.

    And, I have to agree with this part of John Gladdy’s response, but for a different reason:

    Why?
    Why?
    Why?

    Why? Why did you have to put a link to something that is nearly one hour long when you know damn well I can not take one hour to watch it but you also know that I will take a couple of minutes to at least see what is about and then I will feel frustrated because I will be fascinated and will want to see it all so I will have to bookmark it for another time and then who knows when I will ever find that time?

    From what I saw, I must also agree with gladdy in that the film part appears to maybe be a bit boring, even pretentious and self-indulgent, but the photographs!

    To one degree or another, I think we all walk that edge. I sure do, despite my love of family, animals and the daily life that surrounds me. So I must come back sometime within the next year or so and watch the entire video.

    Now, there are parts of the recent discussions that I would to explore, other links to click upon, but, damnit, Panos, you have taken up all the time – and more – that I dare give to burn today.

    Again – where do you all find the time to engage in such fun here?

    I remain jealous and amazed.

  987. Brian Frank

    Anyone else notice that the Washington Times is hiring two photographers a year after letting the entire photography department go? Wondering what that means. Is it an economic recovery? Wanting unique, non-wire images of the Republican campaign for the nomination and House control? Is it possible that it was a year-long plan to replace their established staff (including the wonderful Mary Calvert)?

  988. Paul Parker

    i think we are missing the point by concentrating too much on the sex and drugs… I may be wrong but i find he is after something spiritual and the drugs and sex are just part of the ritual, the vehicle to attain that state of mind.

  989. mw

    …how can one judge another without knowing him?

    By his acts.

    From Jason Hogue — It was explained that D’Agata abused the woman… He beats him self, he beats her..

    If that’s true (and I have no idea if it is), I think that’s something society can, and should, judge. What people do to themselves is, for the most part, their own business. But violence against women? That’s something else. Is anyone really going to argue that it’s okay for a man to beat a woman? Or is it okay if she’s a prostitute? A third world prostitute? Or that art gets made after the fact? Does making a great photo of her battered face excuse the act of battering her face? If he really beat the woman, was it a one time thing or a regular occurrence? Is he sorry? Trying to change? Or did the bitch(es) deserve it? You know for some guys, they always do.

    Of course we excuse Gauguin far worse, but that’s more to do with ignorance and the passage of time than any moral lack.

  990. Paul Parker

    Gordon Lafleur…
    Believe it or not you are closer to D’Agata than you think, forget the sordid part of his life and remember your idea of taking images without the memory card inside. You are both looking for a kind of spiritual freedom. Different routes to get their but sort of same place…depending on my mood i would hitch a hike with either of you, and of course with my kids i would choose your ride each time. :))))

  991. michael kircher

    Eva…

    What does it mean to “know” someone? Meet him once or a couple times? Does that count? Does someone who has met him actually know him better than someone who hasn’t? Does it matter? I think the relationship has got to be a little more than casual to actually know the person. And again, how important is that? To judge a person by what he says and does, do you need to have a close personal relationship with them? Ever judged a sitting president or prime minister? An actor or sport star?

    Where is the line?

  992. eva

    Michael K, I think it is important to go deeper, I don’t feel the need to judge Antoine D’Agata here, for example.. if I did I would try to get as much information as I could, possibly firsthand, possibly meeting, and, important, in context.

    It is easy to extrapolate pieces of info.. to stay on the surface.. and to let drive the opinion by personal experiences and expectations..

  995. Gordon Lafleur

    eva

    We all judge. We cannot avoid judging. You judge me for example, based on my posts.

    “If all you see is porn, then I ask myself: why? Does that not depend more on you than on him?”

    D’Agata’s pictures are all ABOUT himself. He is letting us peer into his most private moments. Goodness eva, he is inviting, daring, goading us to judge him. Yes, he is holding a mirror to his own face, and to ours. It does force us to confront an ugly piece of ourselves and those around us.
    I have no problem acknowledging that this is very powerful work indeed. Moreover, I am reacting exactly as I believe D’Agata intended.

  996. panos skoulidas

    ha…love u too Bill…
    but i cant accept the credit about posting the ” about D’Agata film “..
    Eva did it first..(of course i had to beg her to send me the link..)
    big hug y’all

  998. panos skoulidas

    ..ok, one thing i know, so i’ll share…
    WE are ALL prostitutes in this capitalistic world…one way or another…
    WE all sell whatever we have to survive, …skills, time, crack, photographs, whatever…We demand and We are also the suppliers…Some , have only THEIR BODY to sell…
    I know it suit our consciousness to believe that prostitution is a choice…sometimes yes , it could be…
    but for some its the ultimate “choice” to survive..their body..thats all they have…

  999. Paul Parker

    Panos…
    You must take some credit you brought the subject up last Friday on our Skype chat :))

  1000. panos skoulidas

    Drugs is a great way to expand your mind but not for everybody…
    let me put it this way : Sugar taste great and its good so is salt but not for the diabetics…
    As Jim Morrison once said: “drugs is a bet with our mind”
    To be honest i hate eggs..i never eat eggs…but im sure that some out there eat omelette’s for breakfast every single morning… make sense?

  1001. Lassal

    Hi ALL

    very quick … not sure if anyone has posted the link already.
    Photobook Dummy Award as part of the 4th International Photobook Festival Kassel from June 1st to 5th 2011: http://2011.fotobookfestival.org/en/dummy_award/

    Imants … you have books ready to go, don’t you?

    Big hug to everyone – I am working like a maniac until second half of February. Will be back when things relax a bit.

    (DAH, I have not forgotten the two other series! They are coming … coming …)

  1003. Ross Nolly

    All this talk of drugs and prostitution makes my last photo trip seem a tad tame. I blew the dust off my old film cameras, loaded up some B&W and went down the beach with my mum. Beautiful mid-summer evening; and maybe some nice pics of her…

    My stuffed knee is now back to 80% so hard out into shooting from Monday; finally! :-)

  1006. bob black

    not a single person here as the moral authority to judge another person…no one…and yet, of course we do, all of us, all of us…including myself, however, i try (though fail often) not to mix up judgement of work for the judgment of a person’s life….

    the truth is that each of us fails…though the movement toward awareness and the attempt to be good and open and loving and sharing is an ever on-going effort….what i object to strongly, is this holier-than-though moral judgment articulated…toward antoine (or another) or the women or the boys or the drug users or other photographers…none of us is exempt because, if we were so good, so righteous we would not crave for homes without first making short our neighbors and friends and others around were clothed and housed and fed and not broken…but, rarely do we do this…rarely are we able to canvas or allow or make this happen…so, instead we ramble on about how this person is injust or immoral or selfish or slaving….

    the think about sextraffic…about prostitution,…about sex tourism…there are profound profound issues that should and need be discussed…the exploitation of children…the exploitation of women (and men too)…but i dont know, haven’t seen it here, about the effort to stem/eradicate….nore do i see the work of antoine as related to exploitation….for me, exploitation (i see it offen in journalism) is the primary use of another under broken or veiled terms to exercise some material/social/professional benefit at the exclusion of the others’ benefit….

    it is very very easy to be ‘morally’ outraged by the conditions of life, by the ‘behavior’ of others, it is easy to proclamate incandescent moral fervor from an armchair….while rarely examing the way one behaves….deeply behaves in their yearings, in their attachements, in their relationship with people and strangers…

    as to michael k’s point about judging politicians/celebrities, etc…yes, it is true we all do it, and we should not…though we’re human, of course, it is both a defense mechanism and it is a blanket to protect ourselves from the ugly world…our self-righteousness allows us to condem without askin ourselves the more difficult question:

    haVE acted well…

    i have not…i continually fail as a husband, father, son, brother, friend, teacher, citizen, but i try, try damn hard to help, to give back, to support (those i know and those i do not), i also try not to judge another’s life, i try and not sit in judgement…and i try to send metta, alot…that may be ‘horseshit’, but i can say that until we’re saints or enlightened or so wise and so right and so loving as to see others and ourselves with goodness, to understand that they but before them go i, that we are each other’s keepers, if not indeed (impossible) at least in thought and heart and spirit…

    what has left me profoundly sad by this discussion is that it has turned to a moral judgment about a person based on a damn 50 minute film….what do you know about him…about the girls, about cambodia, about the extraordinary complex nature of what is a person’s life….

    have not the moment you’ve lost someone, begun to understood that it serves no value, real value, to sit in judgement of another person, but instead work instead to bring awareness to yourself and to hope for clarity and to hope to help….

    if anything, that he allows himself to be judged, allows himself to be castigated in full view/measure is simply another indication of a certain degree of honesty that most do not allow for…is it exhibitionistic?…yea, which photographer isn’t narcissistic….I am…you are all….otherwise, why not just live simply and work to fix ills…or make your stories and remove your names…we’re all hypocritical once we begin to castigate…..

    the work: whatever, it is worhty of both praise and criticism, for sure…..increasingly, antoine’s work speaks less and less to me, but i value what he does and what the signature of his work means to me as a person and as a photographer….

    so much more to say….will try when i get home, a thoughtful lucid comment about the work, these questions…..prostitution….etc…

    good discussion/argument is important about work, the validity, the mechanism and the questions that detail photographing others…and I believe these ‘ethical’ questions ARE very important, because most of us simply use people, photographically, to begin with…just as employers use employees, just as governments use their citizenry, etc….and should a sense of ethics and awareness guide photographic principles….

    i do believe yes….but just as with the discussion when Roger published his work here, the quick and very easy moral judgements that come, particularly when antoine is not here to engage, is frustrating….

    it is always alot easier to judge harshly another, then it is to fine-tooth comb one’s own life….

  1007. michael kircher

    Bob…

    What I find frustrating is the overblown righteous indignation expressed at perceived righteous indignation. I really don’t think this discussion is as monstrously sad as you seem to be making it.

  1008. a civilian-mass audience

    hmmm…I think that Proxenics is to blame the most …of our communication problems here in BURNLAND and in other Wifi countries…

    We are missing a key factor…the Body Language…therefore we need to discover more flexible ways
    so we can communicate effectively…

    If you could be next to me now…we will all have wine,tea,coffee,olives and cheese…
    misunderstandings,frustrations,sycophants…will be…Pouf…all cleared…

    Keep it up BURNIANS…
    Pouf…all clear…:)))

  1012. kathleen fonseca

    oh yes, Civi..feta, wine, olives, good bread, an azalea or two outside the door..D´Agata can seek heaven in the throes of sex and drugs all he likes; for me, an afternoon in your company would be all i´d need to laugh again.

    abrazos!

  1013. a civilian-mass audience

    ?
    MICHAELK…exactly my point…we lost in translation:)))))))))))))))))))))

    KATIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE…!!!
    yeap…you can laugh all day long…
    But we need D’AGATA’S Vision…your Vision…
    and the Vision of All BURNIANS…
    and a fine-tooth comb…:)))

    oime…I better say what I have to say fast…
    cause if BOBBY returns back home…he will write…and then I want to read…
    a vicious circle of life…:)))

    I love you ALLLL…oime…Street Fighter is back in town…!!!

  1015. Gordon Lafleur

    Bob

    I appreciate your plea for the separation of the work from the man. I have indeed failed to do that on a number of occasions.

    Given the fact however that the work under discussion is directly about the man, a visual diary, a “spiritual quest”, and given the quest-syle depicted consists of drugs, and sex with a succession of prostitutes, I am curious about how you plan to go about discussing the work without discussing the man.

  1017. david bowen

    the part of the film i found most interesting was the beginning in the taxi..
    the rest is the film-makers projection with none of the intimacy nor depth of d’agata revealed.

    it was as though a play-right gave us a fascinating intro to his work, and then the film maker just shot the closed curtains.

    bearly enough to scratch the surface let alone understand, if the scenes of drug taking and loafing are unfamiliar to you.
    from my perspective the relative joys and sorrows of that room are no greater nor lesser than anyone elses.. just extremely well expressed in retrospect on paper.

  1020. mtomalty

    This excerpt,by Patrick Zachmann, from the Magnum blog back in 2007, I think.

    “I like the idea that Antoine d’Agata is part of the ‘Magnum family’, because there is nothing more stimulating than trying to make photographers fit in who don’t conform to the usual image of our venerable agency. Nothing could be more boring than accepting a new photographer who is a clone of ourselves.

    When I saw Antoine’s work for the first time, I had a shock. I had become saturated with photography in general, which I found repetitive and limited. I had tried other formats – square, panoramic, colour, then cinema – all in an attempt to escape boredom or repetition. Suddenly, Antoine’s work proved to me that with photography you could still surprise and move people.”

    My question is, “Where is D’Agata’s work on the Magnum site?”
    A search, there, only returns 13 portraits of Antoine,himself,and a handful of book covers but no
    image portfolios like every other member.
    Like someone mentioned yesterday,I’m sure I recall seeing images of his at Magnum.
    Have they been removed ? Or were they never there?

  1022. mtomalty

    “the rest is the film-makers projection with none of the intimacy nor depth of d’agata revealed.”

    But, how much depth could there have been given his own admission as referenced below:

    From the interview Paul Parker posted earlier,
    “It comes as a revelation that during the five months there d’Agata only used his camera once. “There’s one photo somewhere where we see the bedroom and the drugs,” he says. He pulls it up onto the screen; it shows a skinhead, tattooed woman sitting at a table covered in the leftovers of drugs. “I spent five months with her but I only photographed her once. Of course, we’re always responsible for the photos we make but today I have everything but the impression of exploiting the situations I’ve seen,” he adds.”

  1023. david bowen

    i’m sure there was a great deal of depth despite the revelation.. in the films opening taxi ride he has an excellent and lucid stab at analyzing his life and work..
    to me the film maker has skirted around finding style in banality, which there must have been plenty of, to the familiar sounds of the hubble-bubble..

    i didn’t find the film, nor the comments here about the film, that shocking.. yet i still find the opening conversation profoundly interesting and could have heard more.

    how many photos taken is no indication of the depths reached to gain them.

  1024. david bowen

    after one 4 day commission in amsterdam 9 years ago i’d bearly taken a roll.. yet there was plenty for the magazine to choose from.. and for me to dwell upon.. over the following weeks.

  1025. david bowen

    i mean to say the film started with a lucid conversation..
    opened in the room with the beginnings of a continuation..
    .. and then it seems as though a slab of concrete fell between the film maker, (content to roll cameras at whatever), and d’agata, (content to ignore)..

    maybe the film makers constitution was less fierce… maybe panos would have done a better job.

  1026. Framers Intent

    Wow,
    The local newspaper published some of the work from my bus series, 79. Look 11 have also featured it on their website gallery section. Today I found out that one of the subjects from a shot published in the newspaper had called them to complain about them publishing the image as it was “invasion of privacy”. To be blunt, I expected something of this sort to happen eventually, but I didn’t think it would happen with the image in question (which I thought was quite a serene, reflective, and positive image). I’m also sorry the guys at the paper had to deal with it on my behalf. I’ve notified the Look11 team about this, in case they want to chance their stance on what they publish there. I’m hoping they stand behind candid imagery, but not informing them would have been improper of me. A little bit surprised though – I thought if I got complaints it would be from someone thinking they’d been portrayed in a bad light, but I don’t think that was the case here at all. Oh well, I continue with it (while hoping he only complained to the paper and not the bus company, too…)

  1027. bob black

    “What strikes me is the fact that in our society, art has become something which is related only to objects and not to individuals, or to life. That art is something which is specialized or which is done by experts who are artists. But couldn’t everyone’s life become a work of art? Why should the lamp or the house be an art object, but not our life?”–foucault

    “The judges of normality are present everywhere. We are in the society of the teacher-judge, the doctor-judge, the educator-judge, the social worker -judge.”-foucault

    “And now, if we try to assign a value, in and of itself, outside its relations to the dream and with error, to classical unreason, we must understand it not as reason diseased, or as reason lost or alienated, but quite simply as reason dazzled.”-foucault

    “The possibility of madness is therefore implicit in the very phenomenon of passion.”-foucault

    “The whole idea of compassion is based on a keen awareness of the interdependence of all these living beings, which are all part of one another, and all involved in one another.”-thomas merton

    A few words ;)) about Antoine’s work and practice and about judgement….

    As Wittgenstein reminds, when we begin to shuffle our way through the language and dialogue of morality, of casting about for a language and grammar of ethics, we often fail, we end up often with meaningless language and a fishing about for ‘truth’, ‘facts’ by which to determine what it is we sense is wrong, is not of Good,, what we believe and surmount as an ethic of behavior and understanding. Were it so simple, we would not be welled up in our darkened corners spitting and hating and clamoring over goodness while the world around us carves itself up into a meaty and languished field of pulp…..and yet we persist…

    We judge, each of us, not only others but the entirety of what it is we construct. To some degree, of course, this seems and appears sensible. We live in families, build communities, are citizens of neighborhoods and cities and nation states and the world. Each of us negotiates some kind of meaning form this relationship. As members of society, we allow for both the construct of judgement and ethic, in the architecture of law and reasonable order. We allow for both the judgment and the punishment of ‘the wrong.’ We acknowledge the culpability of ‘wrong’ behavior as we deem it: we judge and punish criminals, a state of character that most of acknowledge to be in accordance with some prescription of wrong-doing, an act committed in violation of the accepted ‘good.’

    We all, it seems, judge and necessarily acquiesce to this within our social contract. We judge killers. We judge abusers. We judge thieves. We judge, even, those we consider ‘mad’ (though I really recommend reading Foucault on the history of madness, seeing that Leprosy once was consider a sign of madness). We bow in horror at those who kill and abuse. As a father, it terrifies me that someone might hurt, abuse, even kill my own child. As a husband, it terrifies me that someone might hurt, abuse, even kil my own wife. Judgement, because of the social contract that each of us has adhered to, judges and does so with a collective understanding that from that judgment comes some other greater good: social stability, compassion, construction of connection, thoughtfulness, humanity. We imprison those we feel have broken our social agreements, our reverent understanding of what it means to ACT with goodness and fairness and humanity. And yet, who of us has not failed and traversed beyond our own judgments towards others.

    It is impossible for me to, with a honest face, to write here about judgment without trying to be honest about my own life and behavior. I have, often, acted badly. I have hurt people I love. I have lied and cheated. I have spoke ill of others and I have acted unfaithfully to family, friends, colleagues. In my life, I have stolen, have hurt people I loved deeply, have transgressed certain norms and laws of the society that I have tried to be a good and thoughtful and ethical member of. I have drunk too much and have taken drugs. I have shirked responsibility and have been dishonest. I have twice tried to kill myself and twice spent short-lived time alone on the streets when I lived in Prague. I have spoken ill of friends and colleagues and have had fights with my brothers. I have castigated my parents and have felt ashamed. I have filandered and been in relationships that I should never have entered. I have let go of friends who cared about me and ignored students. I have walked by strangers on the street, photographed people about whom I thought were interesting without even caring whether they knew I had known. Like all of you, I have lived with my failures, my mistakes, my gross errors, my immorality, my confused and confusing life and tried to make sense of this.

    I was raised by good people, loving and thoughtful and soulful people, who themselves did terrible things to one another and me. I have lived in a family that battled physical and mental illness. I have survived broken parents, one of whom was taken from my brothers and me for a time when I was a child, one of whom survived near institutionalization. I have survived the divorce of those beautiful, loving people and continue to negotiate their own sadness and heartbreak. My mom once left in the middle of the afternoon, disappeared, for 3 days without us knowing. My father once, after drinking, once left to sit in the rain and listen to the water lap up the Chesapeake. Does it make sense to you if I said that I could not have asked for more loving and caring parents, even though like each of us they were as easily broken, easily failing as the next. What to make of others behavior when in my 40’s, I am still trying to learn NOT to judge them or others or my own life.

    From the time I was young, I was obsessed with ‘morality.’ When i was a teen and a college student, i was an idiotic moralist. I read alot. I read literature and poetry and philosophy and was obsessed with trying to understand life and my family. In university, I read philosophy as a way to try and pitch something up against to this life in hopes that something would stick and make right and make sensible of the world alighted. Steeped in Western philosophy, from the Greeks and Socrates, Plato and Aristotle through Descartes and Hume and Kierkegaard to Hegel and Nietsche and huge chunks of 20th century philosophers, i was obsessed with trying to understand not only ‘this life’ but more important for me, how to act, how to live, how to make sense. In a phrase: how to be good.

    As a buddhist (though, I am loathe to use that description), I try to see judgment more simply. I try, though fail most of the time, to subscribe to Right Speak. That speech which does not harm: that thought which does not harm the other, that thought or speech which does not take away from the silence. Yet, still judgments, like breath, arise. It is impossible not to, as like breathing it seems to be part of, if not our nature, the social contract that we’ve been convinced (lied to) is the way to stabilize and ensure goodness and order. though what does this mean?

    that each of us takes the easy way out. that we judge others much more quickly than we judge ourselves. We work much much more at critiquing others and punishing others, we work much more on telling others how to behave, how to act, how to think than we do working on ourselves. Obviously, it is easier to do that and we, generally, are lazy and jaded creatures. My objections with some of the comments about Antoine have not so much to do with whether or not they ‘like’ what Antoine is doing, have not so much to do with whether or not they think his behavior is ‘wrong/bad’, have not so much to do with whether or not they are horrified by the drug use, the relationship with prostitutes, the apparent ‘using’ of others to gain, or the propagation of an activity that many find reprehensible in it’s consequences: subjugation, poverty, abuse, trafficking of children/women/men (all of which are heinous). What I find troublesome is the language that some have used to describe Antoine as a person based solely on watching a film, or looking at his photographs.

    Yes, we all judge, we rectify, we all construct our ‘morality.’ We’re fed this from religion and notions of social contract. And yet, what distinquishes one ‘Wrong’ (in this case drug use, exploitation of prostitutes for artistic or material or yes existential gain) from one Right/Good: working to earn money, owning land (what gives you the right to that land over others, just because you have money?), practicing ‘ethical’ photography. You see, all morality is in fact a construct, often promulgated in order to keep the bretheren enslaved. Most of our sense of Goodness comes not from a philosophic or spiritual dialectic but is passed down to us through the writ of Judaic/Christian/Islamic (monotheistic) religion. Even Buddha (as we come to know ‘him’) struggled with this: the implication of a simple thought or way of acting transcribed by disciples who wanted to construct both a theism and a morality.

    This is not to say that some of this is NOT good, is NOT important. There is something seemingly ‘innate’ about our need for order, for connection: dendrite gene blood dream. Generally we do not destroy our children, though we have been known to do this, and still do. Generally, we believe, we search for unity of community, though as individuals and societies and a species we’ve done a pretty good job of destroying one another and the world around us. So, how is it we can arrive at some kind of Ethics, some code, SOME GRAMMAR by which we can act good. Well, wiser men and women than I have spent longer time than I struggling to create this code, but I do feel strongly on this:

    We must, before the speech of judgment after reflection, first take that initial reaction to the ‘bad’ (killer, abuser, thief, drug addict, coward, colonizer, dictator, exploiter, etc) we need to take that judgement (our reflex) and turn it toward our own life. Do most do this? No….that makes for a much more difficult way to life and surely it isn’t terribly efficient either…and we crave efficiency, decisiveness, simplicity, unambiquity….we crave the grave for what we fail to recognize or see as good or us….we often despise the other, though the other is us…

    How to discuss Antoine then, as Guy and Michael have asked?

    Surely, some of you (and many others, btw) fine his work repetitive and superficial and physicality and ‘sensuality” (it’s physical appearance of grain and long exposure and seeming intensity/madness/fervor. It is dark and hunger filled and pain-filled and tortured and filled with hurt. But so is the prose of Henry Miller. So is the late quartets of Beethoven, so is watching loved ones die. Bury the dead without physical pain. Orgasm without understanding how your body shutters and shuttles. Sex is a mess. Life is a mess. We’re bloody, drenched, sweating, crying, laughing, yearning creatures. We are narcisstic. We are solipsistic. We are wounded and open and gapping for something. We want we want we want. who does not?

    Antoine’s work is in fact, to me, about not only HIM. Yes, of course, he is the ‘actor’ in his photogrpahs. His photography is really the language of his life. In truth, his pictures seem not merely extensions of his ‘material’ life (what he does, where he goes, how he sees, who he meets, who he has sex with, and who he spends time with, what he hears, and thinks about and sees), but I think it is a big mistake to discount his work simply as that. Yes, his pictures are Raw, but to me they are not Raw in the way I understand life. they are constructs, they’re his OWN GRAMMAR, his own way of trying to figure out this blindness we’re all in, this trap. I don’t really see any real difference between his work and meditation. They are repetitive the way meditation is repetitive, the way pissing and shitting and eating and sleeping and brushing our teeth is repetitive. His work is neither judgment nor promotion of a certain way of life. In fact, I find is work much much more honest than most ‘journalism’ i see. Not because of the subject matter or the work’s ‘style.” I find it honest because most (not all) but most of his work deals with something quite simple:

    He is pictures are part of his body, part of his breath, part of his way to work through the grammar of what it means to be alive, HIS LIFE, his existential search for, if not meaning, than at least connection, at least his understanding of what it means to try to get at all these things that trap us in our existential conundrum. Some write, some make things, some think, some live, some make pictures. His pictures are about what he sees within the tangent and target of his life.

    And this. Like antoine, I too am blind. I too have spent the entirety of my life haunted by my face, by what others look like, this huge chasm between what things ‘are’ and what they look. When i look in the mirror i see a horror show, because I am unable to see my face wholely without looking at all the parts in pieces. I constantly try, visually, to put together this world, visually, through the pieces as if a jigsaw puzzle. This hurts, alot actually. I see in antoine’s work, something very much akin to my own life. Not because our work ‘looks’ similar (i dont think my own work looks anything like antoine’s or michael ackermans or moriyamas (all the shit i’ve been told for the last 10 years) than it looks like my son’s photogrpahy). But what I do see is that in his work, he is putting pieces together. Rhyming out the darkness in ways that somehow, if not makes sense, abate the deep well of confusion and sadness that defines someone who struggles with these questions. Why do some people become priests and rabbi’s and immams and monks and others bankers and real estate brokers? There are pieces inside that gather in each…..

    and how to reconcile his work with the lives of these prostitutes. Well, the act of photographing someone, to begin with, is a form of exploitation. Let us be honest. There is not a single photographer among us who doesn’t crave success: that may not be ‘material’ or notoriety or professional, but each of wants, hungers to MAKE PICTURES, and we use the world around for this, we use people. Our bosses also exploit us for their profit, our leaders exploit us for their power and their history, we exploit one another for our Social Contracts…..we use the world to try to make sense of the world….you do, i do, we all do…..

    Antoine is using the women he has been with, the dark and lost places he has visited, the time, but the truth is within that ‘relationship’ he too has been used, for EVERY RELATIONSHIP involves that, the question is one of: honesty and harm. Do we do harm and are we honest.

    When Antoine speaks of earning money with this woman, in the moment of physical, emotional, existential rock-groundedness, he is offering what he is capable of doing in order to be honest with that woman and that relationship. Was he smoked uP? Was he dishonest? Was he more honest than most of us, in that moment…..

    How does, for example, journalists and photographers deal with the sex trade, the drug trade. In honesty, have most of the photogrpahers and writers and journalists done anything to really ‘help’ when working with these issues. Most go, feeling they’re doing good, a kind of colonialist patronizing endeavor. Most enter that world, shoot it, write about it, share it with people who live comfortably and well-meaning lives and they disappear. to use Cambodia for example, there are very few photographers I know of who have tried to do as much about the problems that afflict Cambodia than JOHN VINK. He is tireless…he stays, he helps, he works…he speaks out….and he doesn’t do this for accolades, but the vast majority, it’s just another subject…..

    how is what antoine doing, by trying to reduce himself to a basic, almost embryionic state of awareness as a way to negotiate his life, that life, more harsh, more culpable….it seems to me he is much more honest about his meaning and approach and the use and consequence of that than most…

    so, how to talk about the work (if you feel moral refutation) without judging him..?….

    you can argue against him, against this work, against the behavior….but if you are honest, you’ll find yourself in both an ethical and linguistic trap…and then what to do…

    to try to understand why it is he is doing this, without hero worshipping, without denigrating…to try to understand what has lead him there, what has lead these people there…these young girls…the crack, the loss, the tedium…

    this is not about antoine…this about all our failures…and as soon as we begin to recognize that, then maybe we can talk about this….

    he does not glorify anything…the glorification comes in your own reaction to the pictures, just as the repellant anger is from your own reaction and is not the a priori state of this work or these places or these people….

    how to argue/critique/dislike….

    how to you live daily in a world of hypocrisy and contradiction?..

    I do not and cannot answer that…..and i cannot pretend to offer an answer or an way to think over that…

    except that in order to manage the anger and the sadness of this world, one must first begin to try to understand the other….

    for the other’s ill, is in fact our own illness too….

    to be just, one must first angle for compassion and awareness….not in judgement from on high…

    the breath is from within

    Your exhalation is my inhalation….i feed my own body from your breathing…

    I judge, always, in reaction…but I hope and work to move be;yond that judgment and search for compassion and understanding….

    ironically, that film made me much less interested in Antoine than in the girls….and if anything, that too is part of my own reaction…

    with and upsetting the piece…

    exhausted

    b

  1029. michael kircher

    Bob…

    You have repeated now, in a couple different ways, the idea that before you judge you must look at yourself. You immediately jumped in stating this. My question is, how do you know that the people you are addressing haven’t? Who are we to judge, you ask? Who are you to tell us how to judge? I’m not being contrary for the sake of being contrary. I am genuinely interested in how you’ve come to these conclusions about others… about people you do not know. Can you see that you might be wrong about everyone’s motives or their approach to judging?

  1030. david bowen

    bobus.. will have to re-read tomo as it’s 1.28 am in the future.. yawn

    for me that opening conversation had me pouring over my own practice in thought.. mostly shot unconscious.. life on the road.. static evolution being one to avoid.. then later.. having to feel sharp through new circumstance..
    his ability to verbalize thoughts many must connect too is impressive.

  1031. Gordon Lafleur

    Bob

    Thankyou for that.
    I’m always amazed and humbled by the depth of your essays.

    I’m exhausted as well. I lost sleep last night, with images and comments rolling around in my head, and came home early from work, unable to concentrate. Intense stuff. thanks again.

  1032. bob black

    Michael :)

    True…my response wasn’t about you or the judgment of Antoine’s work per se……my diatribe (wine fueled) and totally sorry for that masturbatory post ;)), was in response to language about the work being horseshit or the implication that he was exploiting the women (a pretty tough charge)….my judgment is not about ‘others’ but about the ‘language’ they use…as we all know, writing on blogs, removes the ‘conversation’…so I more concerned with the judgment that is rendered from the language…if you re-read, some of the language (and some of the flippant) language seems to paint antoine as a pretty superficial and hypocritical and exploitive person….including accusing him of being from one social class and ‘pretending’ by entering another…so, the comment was more about trying to bring up a discussion of judging work (all fair) to judging a person….i absolutely may have misread much, but i re-read this whole discussion at lunch, before writing most of that crap above in my head as i walked home…

    debate about ethics/judgement is important…but i think also that as soon as we quickly judge, we must turn that judgment toward ourselves….but, that is a stupid pronouncement too…so, as i said, as Wittgenstein wrote, we’re trapped…so how to escape that: to try to rework judgment into either silence (something i am working on ;))) ), or factual grammar…..

    And I really didn’t even think of ‘motives’…..actually, i don’t think there are any BAD motives here at all…i was trying to offer an open, and critical response on the notion of what it means to JUDGE SOMEONE by looking at a film/work….and i was ‘judging’ the language used above….if you re-read the last couple of days discussion, i think it is clear what i was reacting to…not that people ‘like/don’t like’ his work, or support his ‘life’, but they they made some pretty intense statements about what kind of person he is….re-read please :))

    but, you know, i am usually wrong, by the way, about most things…

    David: :))

    yawn is the totally appropriate response to what i wrote…i’m not sure i’ll even re-read what i jsut wrote ;))

    hugs to the lioness and little lion cub :))

    GORDON

    thanks…someone is going to kill me later…;))…just trying to share ;))

  1034. bob black

    michael ;))

    well, i’m not sure if my post made any sense anyway, but well, ti’s the trouble of language…and long-winded, wine-fueled passion pups like yours truly…….you know when i sit down and write something, it usually is a pouring (to match the lovely Blackstone I bought after school)…and tonight was supposed to be about finalizing an edit….:))…but what’s a loud-mouth to do ;)))…oh well..

    i think all motives here are good, that’s part of the House of Harvey…but damn, we gotta keep it lively too :)))…

    ok, off to read….:)).

    cheers
    bbob

  1035. a civilian-mass audience

    To BOBBY:
    “Oh soul,
    you worry too much.
    You have seen your own strength.
    You have seen your own beauty.
    You have seen your golden wings.
    Of anything less,
    why do you worry?
    You are in truth
    the soul, of the soul, of the soul.”
    Jalal ad-Din Rumi

    off to feed my chickens and my two rabbits…

    THANK YOU ALL…!!!

  1036. emcd

    mk: on judgement and looking at the self – Perhaps when one is able to sit with oneself it becomes possible only to understand the other, not to judge, as the self is as the other and the other is as the self when seen without judgement.

  1037. emcd

    the above was in response to “how do you know that the people you are addressing haven’t (looked at themselves before judging the other)”…possibly because it becomes impossible to do so: self knowledge yields knowledge of oneness, oneness precludes judgement.

  1038. Paul Parker

    emcd…
    Loved your Robert Frank interviews, helped me out a lot. Been having a hard time with his work…thanks to you I’m starting to enjoy.

  1039. eva

    Michael K…

    I have gone back and reread what John Gladdy wrote, and to what I said yes.. it is not a judgement about D’Agata, nor anyone else, but his thoughts about the differences we might come from.. and my yes to Kathleen was after an exchange between her and me, about love and prostitues and about having all darkness inside of us.. no judgment about D’Agata there either.

    To have an opinion or to judge (right/wrong) are two different things. And what might be right for me might be wrong for another, who am I to establish something for somebody else?

    Gordon..

    by asking myself that question (if all you see etc.) is no judgement either, where do I take the right to judge you? Based on what? I do know you a little, but not enough to know if that question has a fundation, for that we’d have to sit down and talk..

    Do I judge? Yes.. but I try hard not to.. and not fast.. sometimes I succeed, sometimes not..

  1040. eva

    PANOS!!!!

    Can you tell them over there in Istanbul they should accept credit card payments.. paypal.. something easy.. PLEASE! I want IZ!!!

    Congrats :))

  1041. mw

    Bob, I hope you’re not referring to my comments in your criticisms above. As is not unusual, I grabbed hold of a minor point and approached it from the pov of general principles. I stressed repeatedly that I have no idea if D’atata has done the thing of which he’s been accused. Maybe you all know? Cause I confess, I only watched the first few minutes of the movie and have only glanced at his work. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not shocked, outraged or judgmental about anything I’ve seen. I like drugs and sex myself an if some people choose to obsessively pursue those things (let’s hope Panos never gets a hold of Cities of the Red Night, well, that’s their business and/or artistic imperative. As I’ve mentioned before, I believe in limiting my influences and at first glance I found D’agata to be a bit too much of a kindred soul, the type I prefer to stay away from until my own aesthetics are better developed.

    No, what set me off was the bit about violence against women and the question of judgment. When it comes to personal peccadilloes and Buddhist worldview, I’m probably about as non-judgmental as anyone in these parts. But we also come from a long tradition of western law. Perhaps in order to reconcile these divergent traditions, I’ve come to believe that we should judge the act more than the person. I see nothing wrong whatsoever with judging the act of violence against women as a very bad thing. In fact, I see that kind of judgment as a very good thing. One that has been lacking for all too much of human history. One that is still lacking in all too many parts of the world. In all too many parts of many mens’ souls. But although the act of violence against women is always a bad thing, individual circumstances can temper the judgment of the individual. Does he feel remorse? Is he likely to do it again? Etc.

    Or maybe I’m wrong? Maybe I am too judgmental about violence against women? After all, large swathes of humanity consider it a basic human right to beat on the women folk. In fact, a good portion of them don’t even consider women to be fully human. Shouldn’t we respect these different cultural views? Shouldn’t we be non-judgmental?

    Nah, we need to judge the hell out of that dark age crapola. It is not okay no matter who does it.

  1042. Paul Parker

    I’m currently watching 3 kids in a park, juggling crutches, ‘The Burn Phone’ and a box with a roll of Tri-x so i can’t paste this link, but if any of you head to YouTube and write Antoine D’Agata there’s a trailer to another film based on his life…

  1047. bob black

    MW:

    no, i wasn’t writing against your critique…in truth, i wasn’t thinking about anyone or any one comment specifically, just some of the overall tone of some of the comments….

    as i tried to write earlier (before the long, diatribe post) and what erica has also suggested, awareness comes from an understanding of our real, yes real, connection to the other…my your breath/my body was not only a metaphor, but is the truth, we are sustained by one another and destroyed by one another, we are both, of and without the other…we must work, if possible, toward that recognition…or rather, that’s what i’m trying (failing) to do:…it’s why i meditate, why i think, why i try to listen and help as much as i can people, including being supportive here….

    it’s not just an act of ‘goodness’ or ‘generosity’ or ‘kindness’ but a simpler thing: we are nothing without one another…

    violence toward anyone is anathema to me…especially toward women and children…don’t have to convince a vegetarian of that…and i wrote, already about judgment/laws above….and yes, often acts temper us over time…but not all, for sure…

    again, i think all reactions to work or act are fine…what is important, humbly, is the awareness that anothers action/life/behavior/being arises in you…:)))

    that is what i was trying to suggest…

    buddhist monks and nomenclatura, also have a terrible history too of treatment towards women…which is changing too…

    we are all imperfect ;))…

    rather than judge the dark ages, it is better to understand them/context/history and to work toward change….judgment alone rarely changes anything…

    for our progress, as individuals and citizens, sure hasn’t gotten much better in terms of how we treat people ;))…

    so much for our social contract and laws….a nation of laws still aint, necessarily, a place of awareness, compassion and love ….but, …that is a different chat ;))

    have fun with the lighting workshop :))))

    cheers
    bbo

  1048. Gordon Lafleur

    mw

    Yes, it is all well and good to try and be very liberal, accepting, and non-judgemental. Aren’t there also times when you just have to step back, make a stand, and say “this is not OK”

    We cannot NOT judge. The opposite of NOT OK is OK. The opposite of dis-approval is approval. Choosing to claim non-judgement sometimes sounds like just a head in the sand cop-out. Is anything, any behavior, none-of-our-business and OK?

  1049. michael kircher

    So Erica… if I’m reading you correctly, (and I may not be.) you seem to be saying that the only conclusion one can come to after looking at oneself in the mirror, after considering the other, after genuine reflection… the only possible conclusion is the one you (Erica) have come to?

  1050. bob black

    Gordon:

    well, that is easy out ;))…

    the discussion is not that we NOT judge judge (we all do, we are sentient afterward), but that the important issues is WHAT TO WE DO with our judgments and and how to we react to our judgments….and if you say this is not ok, you MUST start with yourself…rather, we must start with our own awareness..

    so, to make a stand ;)))…it IS okay that you called antoine’s work and ideas HORSESHIT and you called him a hypocrite and a phony….what i’d love to see too, is some self-honesty too…your own language is just as boorish ;))….therefore, i guess you both are really the same :))…

    see we are all connected in our pronouncements of others…

    and by the way: indicting/criticizing harsh acts (like abuse, violence, exploitation) is one thing, accusing another of that based on a pretty superficial documentary is another…

    so, here is my judgment ;)…it is okay what you said about antoine…i just wish you reserve the same critical eye for self as well…or maybe you do…who knows…

    and by the way, the opposite of NOT OK is not necessarily ok ;))….but that is a different discussion

    best of luck

    cheers
    b

  1051. emcd

    mk – I’m all for discernment, we may indeed be talking about different things – I don’t mean that after reflection and consideration that one cannot or should not discern; rather that it is not possible for judgement to be present in the mind/body/spirit-knowledge of oneness.

    katia – funny! and I never would have seen it. Not really keen on people posting this many photos without permission, but it is sweet that they would wish to.

    paulp – oh, that’s great! labor of love, and that talk was a challenge. more to come…

  1053. Paul Parker

    Eva…
    Thanks for the interview. Between you and Erica you´ve managed to cure my reticence towards Robert Frank… “The Americans” is now waiting patiently by a lovely glowing chimney for after supper.

  1056. Paul Parker

    Another Antoine D´Agata interview…
    The first time you meet Antoine d’Agata, it is virtually impossible
    not to notice his eyes: large, round, and dark. Eyes that seem
    particularly well-adapted to the path he has chosen to follow. For
    some 10 years, d’Agata has been documenting his own body and soul, and
    those of others, as they wander into extreme and endless nights,
    drowning in the raw brutality of drugs, bars, and prostitution. Like a
    feverish deep-sea diver, he regularly plunges into the darkest
    recesses of human nature before coming back to the surface for air.

    When we met in Paris, he had just returned from two weeks in Mexico
    which he spent, once again, exploring the murky waters of life on the
    edge. Tall, thin, and dressed in black, warm and timid at the same
    time, nothing in d’Agata’s appearance or attitude hints at these
    extreme nomadic journeys animated by his “obsessions and anxieties”.

    His fascination with extreme states of being began at an early age.
    Born in Marseilles in 1961, the son of a butcher, he quit high school
    at age 17. Like a slow suicide, he wandered for years, lost in the
    excesses of heroin, alcohol, sex, and punk rock. In 1982, he decided
    to leave Marseilles, a decision that “saved my life”, he notes. He
    travelled and eventually ended up in New York in 1990, where he
    delivered pizzas and began studying photography at the International
    Center of Photography. There he met Nan Goldin, who will have a strong
    influence on his work.

    Today, Antoine d’Agata is one of the most sought-after photographers
    in Europe. His first book, Mala Noche (1998) was followed by four
    others, including Vortex and Insomnia, published in 2003. The photos
    shown here are from his new book Stigma (Images en Manoeuvre,
    September 2004) featuring 37 photos in both black and white and
    colour, and a text in both French and English. Antoine spoke to us
    about the circumstances in which these photographs were taken and
    explained the gradual changes taking shape in his work.

    Barbara Oudiz: How did the project for Stigma get started?

    Antoine d’Agata: Most of the images in the book were taken in the
    towns of Las Palmas and Playa del Ingles in the Canary Islands. The
    actress Isabelle Huppert invited me there to follow the shooting of Ma
    Mère, a film based on a story by Georges Bataille. I didn’t go there
    as the set photographer for the production company, though. My idea
    was to document the filming in my own way, to put together a personal
    diary made up of my experience of the place. Very soon after the
    project got started, I realised that the atmosphere on the film set
    was not conducive to what I wanted to do. Although I learned a lot
    about how a film is made, and on the human level it was a very good
    experience, as a photographic experience it was very frustrating.

    BO: So you left the film set?

    A d’A: I continued documenting the film’s production, but none of
    those pictures are in this book. I … decided to search out and
    photograph the world outside of the shooting. I wanted to find out
    what Bataille himself really felt. I had read his books a long time
    ago, and when I re-read them recently, I realised how much he’d
    influenced me and how similar my universe and my obsessions were to
    what his had been: sex, bars, prostitution. The similarities are not
    in terms of the answers we found, but in the kinds of questions we
    asked.

    BO: What exactly did the Canary Islands bring to your project?

    A d’A: Most, but not all of the images in Stigma, were made in the
    Canary Islands. A few were made in France (Brest and Paris), others in
    Naples and Vilnius. In all, I spent 20 days taking these photographs.
    This being said, it’s true that the Canary Islands are a very
    unnatural place. There is a constant influx of tourists and a big
    market for prostitution, both homosexual and heterosexual. The
    nightlife leads to lots of quick encounters; people come and go, and
    never meet again.

    BO: How did you decide on the title Stigma?

    A d’A: Actually, at first I was going to call the book Divinus Deus,
    the title of Bataille’s unfinished volume of four stories, of which
    “Ma Mère” was one. I saw my book as a sort of personal interpretation
    and continuation of Bataille’s work. Then suddenly, ten minutes before
    going to press, we realised that we were going to have a copyright
    problem with his publishers! I chose Stigma because it evokes the idea
    of a burning or wounding of the flesh. And the word “stigmata” of
    course gives a religious connotation. All of these sex scenes are like
    wounds. In Bataille’s Divinus Deus, sex replaces God.

    BO: These images also appear to continue your previous work. Are there
    things that have changed?

    A d’A: There is a certain degree of continuity. But there are also
    differences. I am trying not to lose myself as much in poetic
    wandering here, as I did in the past. I want to get to the core of
    things… I’d like to get rid of everything that is overly romantic,
    to reach a purer form of expression. As a result, these photos are
    more brutal, rawer, and also more sober, than my previous ones.

    BO: Tell us about the exterior shots, all of those austere buildings…

    A d’A: The exterior shots are not there, this time, as a breathing
    space between sexual interior scenes. They do not function as
    objective spaces. They’re there because I felt the need to anchor all
    of these scenes in an outer reality. These concrete walls and small
    windows are the outer reality behind which all of the sex scenes are
    taking place.

    BO: In other words, you are trying to underline the tension that
    exists between the objective, outside world, and the extreme intimacy
    of your interior shots?

    A d’A: I am emphasising that sort of tension, I suppose. But the
    tension is not only between the exterior and the interior. There is a
    photograph here (Susan : photo Number 27) showing a transsexual behind
    bars. She is not in prison. She lives half way between exterior and
    interior realities. In fact, she is living … in an abandoned shopping
    centre in Playa del Ingles. People rent abandoned shops and storage
    cellars there. The photos are symbolic of the walls which enclose us.
    We all live locked in. The exterior shots show closed spaces, just
    like the interior shots show closed cellars and rooms.

    BO: Are most of the photos here self-portraits?

    A d’A: Only about five or six are self-portraits, though I’d rather
    not say which ones. I am definitely one of the main players in these
    scenes, but the book is constructed much less as a self-portrait than
    my previous work. This time I’ve made a conscious decision to keep a
    certain distance. My aim is not to exclude myself from these scenes,
    but to make my work less of a personal vagabonding than in the past.
    My perspective is less subjective, I have less empathy.

    BO: Who are the other people in these images, then? Friends?

    A d’A: They are not “friends” in the usual sense of the word. We don’t
    have any special affinity except that we find ourselves together,
    plunged into the night with male and female prostitutes. I am very
    close to the people I work with, even if our relations only last one
    night. We exchange very deep, personal secrets. Our relations are
    frank and straightforward. My camera is there from the very beginning,
    but the photographs are taken when we’re already far into the night.
    They know as much as I do what I’m looking for when I take these
    photos. And they know I will be publishing them.

    BO: Yet there is a degree of violence in the sex scenes. Is this a
    reflection of the kind of relations you have?

    A d’A: Occasionally, our relations are painful, but never
    embarrassing. They are painful when we are confronted with the
    violence and brutality of the sexual act. After the sexual climax, for
    example, I am in the same state of exhaustion as they are; I feel the
    same emptiness, like successive waves of death. … We’re not in a
    situation of love and communion. We’re in a universe in which love is
    bought and sold. The photo I chose for the cover of Stigma (susan:
    photo number 46) is symbolic in that regard. It shows human nature as
    situated half way between the mind and the flesh, half way between man
    and beast.

    BO: Do you plan the way you make your photographs or do they just happen?

    A d’A: I don’t plan anything. I just take one day at a time and
    improvise as I go along. I find myself in the night, in extreme places
    and situations where there are no rules. Going as far as I do with
    strangers is already enough to occupy my mind and my soul… These
    photos are not reportage, nor are they pornographic. It is very
    difficult to say what they are. The blurry aspect of some of the
    images is not an aesthetic choice, yet it is not there completely by
    chance either. It is just a tool. Colour and blur are tools that help
    me to construct a narrative. It’s as if you asked a writer what kind
    of pen or pencil he uses. This is completely secondary.

    BO: Would you say that your approach to photography is gradually changing?

    A d’A: I’m starting to turn the page a little on some things. In
    Mexico, I spent two weeks totally immersed in the world of
    prostitution, alcohol, and drugs. Yet I didn’t take a single photo of
    those nights. I haven’t changed, my life hasn’t changed, but my
    photography is changing slowly. My work is becoming less
    autobiographical and more lucid, less dream-like. The photos in Stigma
    weren’t intended to trigger any emotions. I wanted to show a sum of
    physical sensations, based on sexual desire, in which emotions play a
    very small part.

    BO: How has photography influenced your relation to drugs and alcohol,
    or vice versa?

    A d’A: Photography is the tool that allowed me to come back to
    reality. It’s like an umbilical cord that attaches me to a world
    outside of myself. Before photography, I lived in a sort of black hole
    for years. Drugs and alcohol are still part of the way I work as a
    photographer. But they operate in different ways now. Drugs allow me
    to remain lucid and maintain a certain natural distance from the
    world. Alcohol, on the other hand, brings me closer to the core of an
    experience. It melts down all the barriers between myself and the
    outside world, and allows me to go towards extreme encounters. These
    two influences are not contradictory. My distance and my desire to go
    to the extreme core of things coexist in me.

    BO: Can you tell us a little bit about your future projects?

    A d’A: I plan on making the book Stigma into a diptych. The second
    book should be ready next spring. I am also making a video for the
    very first time. While I was in Mexico, I spent four days on the
    northern border, near Texas, in what they call a “red zone”, checking
    out the places I want to film. I start shooting the video September
    2004 and it will be out in the spring of 2005, at the same time as the
    second book. Sex, drugs and alcohol will be present in both of these
    new works. But the images will also be about emptiness, fear, doubt,
    and obscurity. I have absolutely no training in video, and that is the
    way I want to approach the project. I want the contact to be
    spontaneous. We’ll see what happens!

    BO: There is another new element in your professional life: you’ve
    just left the Vu Agency in Paris and joined Magnum.

    A d’A: Yes, although this doesn’t imply any change in the way I will
    work. But it’s true that I want to open myself to new territories. I’d
    like my confrontation with reality to become more brutal, to create
    situations in which I can better react to the world. I never
    considered myself a photojournalist, but I don’t want to lock myself
    away in an artistic ivory tower either. My work remains documentary.
    An agency is a tool for getting closer to an event. I feel the need
    for a permanent immersion, painful or not, into the real world.

    Text by Barbara Oudiz

    Eyemazing.com issue 04 – 2004

  1059. Paul Parker

    Erica…
    I have no idea, a friend sent it to me by E-mail about a year ago. I´ll ask him when I have a chance… same with the second interview.

  1063. a civilian-mass audience

    Today is the LIGHITING day…!!!
    It’s finally here…

    May the spirits of Light be with MR.HARVEY and with our BURNIANS…

    P.S …may some charismatic one … bring some light here too…
    and some wine…VIVA!!!

  1064. Gordon Lafleur

    bob

    My outburst of “horseshit”, which I regret and have apologized for, was mainly directed not so much at antoine’s work or ideas, but at the drugs and sleaze, and at such choices in general. It was also directed at the fact that those who can indulge in this sort of personal exploration and search for self knowledge are non-third world citizens with credit cards and bank accounts, have the comfort of knowing they can step out of that situation and persona any time they choose.

    There are up to 20,000 women and children in prostitution in Phnom Penh, a city of 1 million.
    A spiritual quest? a search for self knowledge and truth? Um,OK, maybe. But don’t we call those who, without those lofty intentions, travel to Phnom Penh to sample some of the cities 20,000 prostitutes, just sex tourists? Am I off base here? Bob, don’t you have an opinion on wether sex tourism is OK or not?, Eva?..anyone?

    The work? I have repeatedly stated that the work is certainly powerful, interesting, and I did mention titillating. Titillation is a powerful force. Titillation within art is a time honoured and valid path. Klimpt’s painting of a spectacular red-head curled up sleeping is one of my favourite erotic images. And I do love erotic imagery. Looking at sexually charged imagery presented within art is more comfortable and socially acceptable than just cruising porn on the net (which I do enjoy now and then too).

    As far as self judgement goes, excepting sociapaths, I suspect most of us judge ourselves far more harshly than anyone else would. Bob, we likely all have the same list of sins as you. We all beat ourselves up constantly. Didn’t I hear D’Agata in cab ride mention stupidity as a factor.
    Self-love and self-forgivness is much harder to achieve than self-honesty and self-judgement.

    We all inflict pain on ourselves and engage in destructive behaviors, despite knowing better, sometimes just to see what it feels like when we stop. Sometimes we inflict pain on ourselves to distract us from somthing going on in our heads that we cannot take. My autistic son Brian, when very frustrated or agitated, will sometimes will punch himself very hard, repeatedly, in the face, or literally tear off a fingernail. It is not OK. It is common for some people with mental health issues to cut and burn their arms and legs.
    Perhaps some of that is operating here.

    Finally, to repeat myself, by putting this work out there, putting himself out there, participating in the film, I cannot believe that D’Agata is not inviting, encouraging, and welcoming, judgement.

  1065. Akaky

    So after reading all of the comments (even Bob’s epics) I decided I’d take a look at this thing that’s causing the big rhubarb here. I set myself down and watch the opening credits and then the bit in the taxi. And in the taxi Mr D’Agata says, “…if there are still limits for me or if I’m ready to go to the end,” at which point I clicked the exit button. That’s the excuse and there’s always an excuse. If you wonder whether or not you are ready to go to the end, then you’ve already decided to go there and find out. You may lie to yourself about the reasons, and wrap those reasons up in philosophy and the beauty of the French language [everything sounds better in French; just ask Audrey] but in the end, you’ve decided to hold your nose and jump into the muck. There may be people willing to buy a ticket for a trip through a moral sewer in a glass-bottomed boat, but I am not interested in either the ride or those who want to take it.

  1066. michael kircher

    Maybe this is all about semantics.

    Discernment is OK. Giving opinion is OK. Judgment, not OK!

    But if you are discerning, then give your opinion about what you just discerned… you are judging. Maybe it’s the “gratuitous” judging that rankles? But who decides…[ahem]… judges… what is gratuitous?

    Judging from the conversation, everyone is judgmentally judging the judgments of everyone else. So, hey, let’s just get back to giving opinions, shall we? Discerning opinions, though, if you don’t mind! ;^}

  1067. emcd

    “But if you are discerning, then give your opinion about what you just discerned… you are judging.” Right, along the lines of making an assessment, but that is different in my eyes to making a judging *against* someone.

  1070. panos skoulidas

    Eva…i agree….IZ Magazine is one of the finest prints in the world…First thing u see if u visit magnum office in NY is all the last issues of IZ…they should distribute it easier i agree…

  1072. panos skoulidas

    They (Fotografevi) published NIKOS Economopoulos “Balcans” and Pellegrin and another 30 or so amazing books …but yes they have hard time “accepting” money…

  1088. eva

    Sam, Panos, you mean I must get up now? Come on, it’s Sunday morning.. this phone isn’t smart and doesn’t do youtube.. or perhaps it IS smart cause it does not.. point of view..

  1090. panos skoulidas

    Don’t get up on a Sunday .. It’s well after midnight here..
    But on a Sunday morning??? Nah… All u need is a lover and “go down”.. enjoy but don’t get up..
    Laughing..
    I’m in a reggae party and loving it!!!!
    Love to ALL…
    Civi where u at????
    WHAT NOT TO LOVE?

  1091. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS…easy mate…I just woke up…to find out that someone sneak in…and broke my chicken eggs…
    hmm…no omelette for me…
    BUT
    who needs it…when I have YOU…ALLLLL of YOUUUUU

    P.S PANOS.S…hmmm…according to the JARED’S video…you have trouble with smoking big cigars…IMO
    and double BRAVOOO a) for being published in IZ…b)a Greco being in…:)))

  1094. a civilian-mass audience

    “Although I cannot lay an egg, I am a very good judge of omelettes”
    George Bernard Shaw

    Please…DO NOT forget to report back…from your Lighting experience…

    MYGRACIE…KATIE came over…she needs your ice cream and a big hug…
    DAVIDB is in and out…
    I miss my eggs…
    I will be back…

  1095. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA,VIVA…I am not crossing the waters today…ongoing investigation…
    Who cracked my eggs…

    oime…EVA,amazing job you are doing…
    credit when and where credit is due
    Thanjk you

  1096. eva

    Civi.. look out for rats..

    I don’t do any work, only post links.. others are doing the work, so credit’s not really mine..

  1097. panos skoulidas

    Civi..thanks…you are the 4th burnian “noticed” IZ…
    u see we are busy crucifying Antoine this week…
    or at least “pretend” we are…
    believe me…photographers are one of the most jealous tribes in our world..
    everyone “loves” u when u are on your knees…but nobody wants u to step up the “ladder”…
    Jealousy is a sin according to Buddhism…but its fine…we are mostly “christians” here…

  1098. a civilian-mass audience

    “Promise me you’ll always remember: You’re braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. Christopher Robin to Pooh”
    A. A. Milne(English Humorist, creator of Winnie-the-Pooh, 1882-1956)

    To PANOS…To EVA…and to all my busy BURNIANS…

  1099. a civilian-mass audience

    I found one egg…a beautiful egg…
    I am so grateful…
    time for my breakfast…

    I love my life…as GORDON says…!!!

  1103. mw

    Civi, others. The lighting class was great. Finally learned to control the damned flash and had a great time as well. Met new people, got further acquainted with some I’d met previously, and saw fantastic photography, old and new. I’d happily recommend it to anyone. Thanks David. Michelle, Preston, et. al. Guess now I’ll have to quit calling it the damned flash.

  1104. Mike R

    DAH, MW, good to hear that the lighting class was a success. David, how about posting a lighting class video on iTunes or somewhere that allows a fee to be paid?

  1105. Framers Intent

    Massive +1 to Mike R.’s comment re a video. And, cough cough, should you ever consider visiting the UK to teach a similar course, I’ll happily pull whatever strings I can to help make it happen, cough cough. ;-)

  1106. a civilian-mass audience

    MW Thank you …for reporting…you made it …I hope you weren’t shy …this time:)

    FRAMERS…I will pull whatever hair left on my head…to help …
    cough no more…I am sending chicken soup…over

    oime…our British…can’t help it But I love them All!

    EVA…weasel,it was a weasel…vicious circle of life…!

  1107. Framers Intent

    Civi,
    Chicken soup arrived and is delicious, thanks hon. :-) And I owe you a little email re Look exhib which looks hot, hang on for that, will do it now. Have since cunningly planned my way to major promo for it and we’re clear on space, too. I’m evil, but in a good way. ;-P Hugs xx

  1109. Framers Intent

    BURNing down the house!

    Mail sent, we’re gonna rock Look 11, haha. Well, you ‘togs are, anyway. I’ll be the quiet one behind the scenes, but it’s all good, proud to rep you. Party in Derby? I think we should. ;-)

  1110. a civilian-mass audience

    ahhhh…the way you are Framing your Intentions…
    Rock on!!!

    ok,wake up BURNIANS…I need some visual…or you BURNED your lightings…
    hmmm…:)

    Goodnight from Europe…I am not gonna sleep…I am gonna catch this MF weasel…

  1111. Gordon Lafleur

    Civi

    Some visuals for you via my wonderful non-photographer wife Martha. She grabbed my camera from the table last night at the annual Robbie Burns supper and dance cancer fund-raiser that Celtic Chaos, the band I belong to does every year.
    In five minutes, she snapped a bunch of pictures of the piping in of the haggis.

    Martha is not a photographer. She has taken at most a few hundred snaps in her whole life. The Canon point and shoot I bought her a few years ago usually has dead batteries, and she is lost if it is set anywhere other than full auto. When she picked up my camera, a Canon Rebel, it was set to program, -2 stops exposure compensation, and the focus was set to a custom function which dis-ables the focus on the shutter button and puts it on a button under my thumb. So the focus was where I last had it, about three feet. Here are my favourites from the two dozen or so snaps she made in those five minutes.

    http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/bursn_supper_2011_marthas_photos

    My pictures

    http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/burns_dinner_2011

    I struggled last night. As part of the band, I did not have a lot of time to devote to making photographs, but I seriously tried to come up with something that would capture the essence of the evening. Part of my struggle was the fact that I have been forcing myself to try to adjust my vision to my 35mm lens on the Rebel, as opposed to the 28mm that I usually use. Now 28 and 35 may not seem like much of a change, but I assure you it is. I love the 35 on my full frame cameras, on APS size sensors, it is a slightly long normal. The 28 translates into a slighlty short normal.

    In the end, I like Martha’s take better.

  1112. Framers Intent

    My Intentions are as evil as I am, but equally in a good way. I have been BURNed by yet more glorious jazz, I love these guys, they’re my family and I hope my images eventually do them justice. My dear bass player is 24 and expecting a child in early Feb. I organised a gig for us that I can no longer commit because photog developments take precedence so I told him to take the gig and use another guitar player, Tom, well known to us and good people. My bass player, Dean, was (in his words) touched and awwed I was so chill about it. I’ve no idea why – i’d love the gig and yeah I set it up, but I just can’t commit. There’s no reason for my people to lose out because of me so they should reach for that and I’ll sit in, or dep for Tom when he can’t make a gig. No idea why he thought this great of me, but I’m glad he’ll be adding some moneys to his pocket with his newborn due to be born and all, makes me sleep easier at night knowing they’ll be doing better off with it.

    Anyway, I’m rambling. I’m also drunk and cough cough stoned cough couhg. Chicken soup did help. Off to quick edit images, drink lots of water, and get ready for tomorrow. Planning a bit sit down and edit of prints (they work sooooooooooo much better than computers for editing, in my humble experience) to pull this jazz together. Also planning to record these guys (I have exp of that, so it’s all good) to make a slideshow with music. I should write something, but sound will convey it when the people play it.

    I may sleep. Or stay up and weasel watch with you. You want my company, dear? Holla at ya girl.

  1113. Gordon Lafleur

    Happy belated Robbie Burns day to you all.

    Burns was an extra-ordinary man, a visionary.

    John Kennedy’s innaugrural speech, and Martin Luther King’s famous “I have a dream” speech were both inspired by Rober Burns “A man’s a man for all that” poem.

    -Dead at 37, he has left an amazing legacy. How many of us could hope to have our birthday and artistic output celebrated yearly by thousands of people around the world after two hundred years.

    Is there for honest poverty
    That hangs his head, an’ a’ that
    The coward slave, we pass him by
    We dare be poor for a’ that
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that
    Our toil’s obscure and a’ that
    The rank is but the guinea’s stamp
    The man’s the gowd for a’ that

    What though on hamely fare we dine
    Wear hoddin grey, an’ a’ that
    Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine
    A man’s a man, for a’ that
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that
    Their tinsel show an’ a’ that
    The honest man, though e’er sae poor
    Is king o’ men for a’ that

    Ye see yon birkie ca’d a lord
    Wha struts an’ stares an’ a’ that
    Tho’ hundreds worship at his word
    He’s but a coof for a’ that
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that
    His ribband, star and a’ that
    The man o’ independent mind
    He looks an’ laughs at a’ that

    A prince can mak’ a belted knight
    A marquise, duke, an’ a’ that
    But an honest man’s aboon his might
    Gude faith, he maunna fa’ that
    For a’ that an’ a’ that
    Their dignities an’ a’ that
    The pith o’ sense an’ pride o’ worth
    Are higher rank that a’ that

    Then let us pray that come it may
    (as come it will for a’ that)
    That Sense and Worth, o’er a’ the earth
    Shall bear the gree an’ a’ that
    For a’ that an’ a’ that
    It’s coming yet for a’ that
    That man to man, the world o’er
    Shall brithers be for a’ that

  1114. a civilian-mass audience

    FRAMERS,
    I am scratching my bold head…hmmm…I have some leftovers hair…just to be exact…:)))
    you are a musicophotographer…jazz and prints…oime!
    send me some visual or whatever you feel like…my e-mail is civilianma@yahoo.com…
    I don’t check often But when I do…I do…
    …I can’t Frame you yet in my civilian brain…but I know this…
    ..(I want your company…wanna watch football?
    Long Live the Liverpoolians!!!

  1115. a civilian-mass audience

    GORDON,
    MARTHA is a civilian…and we civilians can do amazing stuff.
    consider yourself …proud!!!
    Thanks for bringing home…MR.BURNS

    “I pick my favourite quotations and store them in my mind as ready armour, offensive or defensive, amid the struggle of this turbulent existence.”
    Robert Burns

    Long Live the Scottish !!!

  1116. a civilian-mass audience

    Happy Birthday to MR.BURNS
    Happy Birthday PRESTON
    Happy Birthday JUSTINS

    Long Live the BURNIANS

    P.S …KATIEEE…abrazos…!!!

  1117. a civilian-mass audience

    and now that I know where is my KATIEE…
    I need to locate MR.SIDNEY…SPACECOWBOY…
    to be continued…

    I will be back

  1119. Framers Intent

    And I’ll watch football so long as it isn’t Liverpool – this season, sheesh, it’s breaking my heart. Good thing I have photography stuff to distract me. Also, not Man Utd either, but that’s only bcause I have standards, haha.

    To BURN, and to bed. For I must sleep. Rock on the AM and more meetings, work, and shooting. Woo hoo*!

    *Obviously, I’m woo hooing the shooting more than the meetings here.

  1120. david alan harvey

    MIKE R..

    i guess if we were serious entrepreneurs we would do something like having an online video…we just did not video tape the class ourselves..NatGeo did tape for some sort of tv programming, but i doubt we can use their material…having a video of this particular gathering would have been classic however..to have the subjects from one of my books right there (especially these men) and then with Denise who did so much of the lighting assisting for that book right on the scene was a bit unreal…not sure the students totally “got it” and appreciated what they actually had in front of them..of course very spontaneous in nature the way in happened ,so could not really be written about to students in advance…what happened in that class could never happen again in any class…but then again i always “plan” for the unplanned one way or another…:)

    cheers, david

  1121. Valery Rizzo

    Hi David – you mentioned the Vivitar 2500 flash unit and I wondered if you have used or know of anyone using one with a digital Nikon camera? ofcourse Nikon will not recommend you use a third party flash with their cameras and Nikon’s do tend to use dedicated accessories. I would like to try a Vivitar with my Nikon D300 but don’t want to risk damaging my camera. What do you think David?

  1124. david alan harvey

    ALL..

    sorry for not being around the last few days…i assume everyone here knows that when i go silent it is generally concurrent with a workshop class i am teaching…when i go into mentoring role, i am not here on Burn..never have been, never will be…i put all of my attention into my classroom students…i was also doing portfolio reviews all weekend…however, unless i am traveling i am here…most often behind the scenes working on a story,but always available to answer any questions…if you feel i have missed a note or question from you, please just re-post or suggest i go back and take a look…i will…and writing tomorrow a new story announcing the EPF grant etc officially…yes, we will have 15k for our grant again….stay tuned…i am not far away!!

    cheers, david

  1125. david alan harvey

    VALERY..

    the 2500 or the 2800 work best on simple film cameras, but also work on most digi cameras..works on my GF1 and Leica M9 for example..but for some reason does not work on all digi cameras …..do not know about the 300…but in any case there is no way it could damage your camera…it is not connected to any internal system of your camera..i will find out for you by tomorrow if it works with the D300…seems like it should…

    cheers, david

  1126. a civilian-mass audience

    ALL is good MR.HARVEY…
    we are rolling fine…music,arguments,pillow fights,hugs,lost and found…
    no problemos…
    of course,we are going through our usual withdrawal syndrome…anxiety,panic attacks,depression
    But when you are returning back…pouf…all clear!!!

    …hope your arm is doing better…But if it doesn’t …don’ worry, We are not that far away!!!

    BURNIANS…wake UP

  1128. Preston Merchant

    CIVI — many thanks for the birthday wishes!

    DAH, MIKE R. — several people at the lighting workshop videotaped David teaching. Their materials might pop up here or youtube or some place.

    ALL — David’s lighting workshop was great! I know a fair amount about flash, but it was good to see David’s examples (who knew he lighted a Nairobi taxi with a wireless strobe and aluminum foil taped to the interior ceiling and then shot from the back of a pickup truck 20 yards ahead?). Plus we got to see the “contact sheet” (David calls it a “raw card”) of the “Living Proof” strip-club sequence that resulted in the cover and three other pictures in the book. Oh, and the food was excellent! If you ever get a chance for a one-day workshop with David, by all means take it.

  1129. david alan harvey

    PRESTON…

    hey amigo, thanks for the review..much appreciated…nice group of folks up there at the studio and a general good vibe….it was great to see you as always although i somehow lost you at the very end at the bar scene..at some point my body told me it was time to go to bed…i was drinking water at that point just as fast as i could , but alas i had oversubscrbed by that time….i hate it when that happens!!

    your birthday today?? if so Happy Birthday..if not, Happy Birthday anyway…i hope i will see you before i go rolling off to Brazil..if not, i will catch you early spring…

    cheers, david

  1130. Preston Merchant

    Hey, David — yes, today’s my birthday. Thanks. It was a great vibe at the workshop and after, especially with your Harlem crew (Uptown, Ruckus, et al). They are good folks. Thanks for bringing us all together.

  1132. emcd

    mk – me? sure, sadly i judge all the time. my point was that only that in a state of oneness it is impossible to judge. that state is hard to come by, and harder to maintain for extended periods. was just trying to say it is possible to move beyond judgement.

  1133. a civilian-mass audience

    Breaking Questions:

    BOBBY …is the family back from Russia…?
    hope all clear…

    Any BURNIAN in Moscow airport…? hope all clear…

    …I love terminals,airports,humans…
    The Abyss of human soul…oime!

  1134. Gordon Lafleur

    Welcome back David. I hope the shoulder is healing.

    A few of us had a bit of a brawl in the living room while you were away, but I don’t think we broke any furniture or bones. :)

  1137. Valery Rizzo

    David…

    Thanks for the advice and for finding out for me about the D300. I picked up a Vivitar 2500 and would like to try like you said a more simple flash with my 300, I thought it could maybe work similar to how I like shooting with my holgas with a Lieca flash. I have a more complicated dedicated Nikon SB800 flash but thought I would see if I like the use of the Vivitar better. So thanks..

    Valery

  1139. a civilian-mass audience

    I guess …we are out of lighting…:)

    goodnight and goodmorning…

    P.S Fire and Ice…what not to light !

  1143. a civilian-mass audience

    JOHNYG,
    are you happy with your lighting…all those years…of looking in a mirror…?

    EVA,
    thanks for sharing!

  1144. Paul Parker

    john gladdy…
    :)))You´ve ruined my day!! My personal photographic goal has always been a steep climb… now your images have turned that hill into something out of the Tour De France. Brilliant portraits, lovely…
    ….well I´m off to climb that mountain

  1145. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY…

    some brilliant portraits in that link John….seems to me you should keep mining that portrait bent inside you…THAT is where you really ARE imo…love the very strange picture of the man with coffee cup and lamp..now, i am assuming these were taken over many years, hence the variance in “look”…do you have any interest in doing like a one week portrait shoot from one place? like a pub or any hangout…say 4-5 different people but all obviously shot at the same time…either very eclectic or very similar..either way…10 picture essay…strong…right in your gut stuff…yes, you have done it , but well with a bit of effort here and a bit of effort there…i mean one all out punch…hit us hard…

    the hook? hmmm, well could be very stylish looking but very deep underneath…how about people who know they are dying…i mean we all know we are dying , but some know it from a terminal illness diagnosis…but do NOT shoot what we see everyday from so many photojournalists of an HIV ward…no….for your essay the subjects would look great..styled…like models almost..yet terminal…see it in the face with some kind of twist…one graph artists statement….powerful, poignant, right between the eyes….just thinking out loud…

    cheers, david

  1146. david alan harvey

    ANTHONY RZ…

    i left New York and was sorry we missed…i thought surely you would catch me for the seminar we did or the party after at least…i cannot post everything i do here, otherwise we literally get trampled at these events, so you do have to do a bit of detective work ..smiling..anyway, i will be back…in about a week or less i suppose…totally looking forward to coffee with you…come to Magnum office?

    cheers, david

  1147. david alan harvey

    WENDY..

    i had a long talk with Sara Terry in Washington a week or so ago…she continues to amaze me as well..we have been what i would call photo fest friends for many years, but this talk was serious…we will establish a deeper relationship with the Aftermath Project here on Burn..Sara and i are of like mind…we have a great rapport and similar goals for supporting emerging photographers…i do not know how all of this will manifest itself , but let’s just say for the moment that Sara and i are sister and brother in arms….

    cheers, david

  1149. Anthony R.Z.

    Hi David, is it OK with you if once in a while we keep in touch by private emails… I have sent you one email a couple of days ago… Yes, I can come to meet with you whenever it’s comfortable for you… at the moment here in NYC I live in the middle of the middle… Cheers

  1151. Framers Intent

    Owww, my head. I love my people, I love good times, but too many nights on the run is not good. Got a Look festival meeting in a bit and drinks events all week. Will tire me, but it’s fun and worthy. Wishing for a nice bed and copy of Kind of Blue to play in background, everything dark, to dark to photograph. Will catch p with the latest slideshows here when I can find some spare time, and Gladdy will check your links, too. Nice one.

  1153. Gordon Lafleur

    John G

    Thanks for posting. There is some good stuff here.

    When we shoot portraits we are looking for a piece of ourselves. What we reveal is what we recognise. ‘Don’t know if you are in trouble or not John, guess you’ll have to figure it out! :))

    For the most part, these character portraits do explore the dark end of the emotional spectrum. You are also drawn to unusual looking people, or unusual depictions of more “ordinary” looking people.

    And of course, a portrait of a person or persons looking into a camera is a picture of someone looking at and reacting to a photographer. Our interaction with the subject wether it be conversation, our demeanor, etc. creates the reaction, then, our shutter finger reacts when we see what we want to reveal about the subject, and about ourselves.

    Keep shootin’

    Cheers

  1156. Ross Nolly

    John; A great set of portraits!

    Funny; last night I was taking some pics of my parents with my trusty old FM2. Took the first photo and for some reason checked the back to look at the non-existant LCD… The silly thing is that I’m not usually a big “check the LCD” sort of person.

    David; Re; your post about shooting film. What I’ve recently re-discovered is the sense of “finality” you have when you click the shutter! Also; the amount of people on the beach the other night who specifically came up to chat because they saw that I was using an “old school” camera!

  1159. Carsten

    John Gladdy:

    Thanks for posting your link, I’m blown away. Great stuff. If you have enough material, make a portrait book out of this and I’ll buy it.

  1162. a civilian-mass audience

    I’m not sure how we’ll reach that better place beyond the horizon, but I know we’ll get there. I know we will.”
    OBAMA

    I know…
    Long Live the Universe!

    P.S …What Not TO XL!!!

  1163. wendy

    John V
    thanks for posting larger images…
    I love how in your frames with lots of people, they seem to move throughout like a piece of ribbon…..
    LOVE that!
    **

  1164. Frostfrog

    Just got the email announcement of the burn Mississippi blues workshop, with all the bookmaking and such. Oh! Do I want to come!

    But it is so impossible.

  1166. Frostfrog

    John Gladdy – Whoa! Strong stuff. Almost makes me feel embarrassed to post on the same board with you.

    Eva – thanks for the link. I will give it some study.

  1167. a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTYFROG,EVA…
    Lighting. Book publishing. Video production…
    for YOU.
    Barbeque and cold beer , plus THE BLUES…
    for ME.
    I can’t miss this one…

    Rats…’n weasles…:)))

  1172. david alan harvey

    FROSTFROG…

    Bill, if there is any way you can make it, this is definitely the one….we are doing something totally different this time…we are going to collectively make a book…tentatively titled JUKE….from the Juke Joint Fest of course but just from the juke joints which dot Clarksdale and environs..a slide show has traditionally been my closing statement for students and a social event built around it..this works and is very popular…but alas it is over like a great wedding party…so, this time we figured a book would add permanence to the workshop..of course we will still have a show and a party, but that will not be the only thing..on top of that, Bryan will be there for those who want to move into video either for tv doc or as multi media..he has at least 20 tv documentaries to his credit plus a couple of commercials, so he knows the game…we were originally going to do this as a lighting only class, but decided to make it an essay class with book, with lighting for those who want it, and video for those who want it…after all we actually do all of it on any given project…like Rio for example..or like Cuba…the magazine article, the book , and the television documentary…why not bring all of this to our students? the other part of this equation is that i will be out shooting with the students, something i rarely do…so a more hands on , one on one class in a really down home atmosphere cannot be beat…

    cheers, david

  1173. Paul Parker

    David…
    Now that is what I call a workshop!! You´ve given me an idea for next year with my students…Start the workshop with an essay and round it off with a book, that will make everyone work extra hard with sights set on something definitive.
    Oh how I wish I still lived in the states…
    Workshop, out shooting with the Magnum Minister of Education, party, fun and some Blues to round it off!

  1176. Imants

    You´ve given me an idea for next year with my students…Start the workshop with an essay and round it off with a book, that will make everyone work extra hard with sights set on something definitive.
    .
    Unfortunately it is not as simple as that Paul having gone that path a few times.There is a lag time until the book is produced and the carrot to work extra hard is directed towards the book not the workshop. With younger students there is a huge disparity in work produced and that leaves one with the problem do we use images from all students or do we edit and produce the best book possible thus leading to disappointment.
    .
    Read the group, be aware of skills and needs if it can work with the individuals as a group introduce the idea later than from the outset. It is a lot more feasible to produce a a e-book via PDFs which is cheaper, production is a direct experience, easily edited and accessed with the added beauty that each student may produce their own version but be aware of the time it takes from your workshop!!!….

    ……….with adults it is a very different ball game.

  1177. Paul Parker

    Imants…
    Thank you very much for your insight, all advice like yours is great help!
    BTW I was missing your sagacity last weekend on the D´Agata affair, you always seem to bring another perspective into comments even though some may only see it as a chance for bringing up controversy!! :))

  1178. a civilian-mass audience

    “Wherever a man may happen to turn, whatever a man may undertake, he will always end up by returning to that path which nature has marked out for him.”

    IMANTS?…who is this???:)))
    What not to IMANTS!

  1179. Imants

    That’s ok Paul that new generation has to spread itself around a lot of information related activities and sources. I try to keep photography as part of the big picture not as the big picture gives them a lot more room to move
    ……. with D´Agata I would have headed down the Orlan, Stelarc, Zang Haun, Chinese performance artists and performance artists in general, the fluxus group even Yoko should get a look in here.
    Bacon is too much a direct visual comparison…… but that is all done and dusted, rebuilding a deck in 100° was a lot more fun than the D´Agata discussion.

  1180. david alan harvey

    IMANTS

    you do point up potential pitfalls for producing a book from a workshop…but i think the solution is not so complicated…Salgado takes 10 yrs to do a book, and Parr takes 10 days to do the same…the fact is, there are different types of books for all kinds of reasons…a one week book is a one week book..no intention to be anything other than a one week book..JUKE will be JUKE…just as Fusco’s Funeral Train (shot in 2 hrs) and Chang’s The Chain (shot in 3 hours) are what they are….both just happen to be classics

    i can tell you honestly Imants from past experience with these one week workshops, in one week most of these students literally do the best work of their life…i always hope this is not the end of this “best work” and only the beginning, but i do stand on what many of them produce…the only way to do a good book is to make the best book possible…this means yes that some might be disappointed…

    one cannot be democratic when designing a book IF as you point out, a good book is more of a goal than somehow making everyone equally happy..but everyone will know this before arriving at this workshop..all arrive with exactly the same amount of time and exactly the same places to photograph…what they make of it is up to them….most students who are taking my classes are one way or another very serious about making a mark…i try to provide a realistic experience for either the journalistic at heart or the esoteric Imants wannabees….i will bring you into teach any class i create in Oz..hell, we would have a serious buzzer……and remember this experience is not put upon anyone…this is all a choice to take or to leave…

    cheers, david

  1181. Imants

    David I agree that with adult age students it is a different ball game due to thir experience……… my response was to Paul who has been instructing school age students. They are not as forgiving if their images miss out, sparks can fly and tears abate.

    My main successes have been with young visual arts students where a variety of mediums from paintings, photographs, drawings performance are translated into book format.

    David the last person who arrived on oz shores to conduct workshops was Captain Cook ……….. I would be happy to help out in anyway with anything including internal travel logistics etc in oz and thanks.

  1182. Imants

    Probably the most rewarding workshop experience here in oz would be the top end and the aboriginal community and it’s connection with place/land/self/time etc. Here you would get Glen to help you out David due to permits, possible travel restrictions both man made and weather permitting etc, Our cities are pretty ordinary

  1183. Gordon Lafleur

    Imants

    You and I no doubt will get along famously should we ever meet face to face. However as a person with a Canadian “aboriginal” background, I cannot resist the urge to comment here.
    If you and any potential workshop participants have a genuine interest in the traditonal aboriginal “connection with place/land/self/time, that is great. If it is merely seen as an opportunity to make colorful pictures of “exotic” people, you would be better served, and make more meaningful pictures staying closer to home and exploring your own lifes. No place is ordinary.

  1184. Imants

    I don’t see where I wrote about exotic people that’s your take on it. Photographers like Glenn a long term burnian here have close association with all the differing communities of the top end so maybe you should do a bit of research before you shoot your mouth off.

  1187. Frostfrog

    John G – Thank you for the encouraging words, coming from you, they mean a lot to me.

    David – I do, indeed, want to come. But I don’t see any possibility. But it would be fun and valuable. I envy those who will be able to take advantage of it.

  1191. a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTYFROG…
    “you are going to be there…”
    I am always here and there FROSTY…I am your civilian,remember:)))

    BUT in case I won’t be able to make it…then, you ALL come to Grecoland…
    where the exotic blends with the ordinary, chickens with philosophers…
    where the waters are clear blue
    where the wages are low and the taxes are high
    where civilian’s wine can make you”fly”…
    where You are the Odysseus…and your journey begins!

    Viva !!!

  1192. a civilian-mass audience

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY to…
    The one and only …from Dark to Light…
    the unbeatable …LASSAL.ST.LASSAL …!!!

    I know…how did I manage to become a B-day delivery civilian…I don’t know…:)))))))
    Life is full of mysteries…don’t you think

    PARTYYYYYYYYYY

  1193. a civilian-mass audience

    and to all the dyslexics around the world…embrace it…

    cause once a dyslexic…always a dyslexic…!

    Thank you MR.HARVEY for opening the windows to all my BURNIANS and to all civilians.

  1195. Paul Parker

    Eva…
    Those cats are the magic touch to what would be one more ordinary landscape image. Lovely, and it just pays to always have a camera hanging round your neck. :))

  1196. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…
    i think you are focused…
    are those MR.HARVEY’S cats?

    PAUL…you are right…it pays to have a camera hanging round your neck!
    better than my blackboard…:)))

  1199. eva

    Paul.. no cats, no party.. errr.. I mean pic.. ;)

    Civi, if they did cross the waters then it could be.. do cats swimm?? Walk on water? Me focused? Yeah.. on my cup of coffee..

  1203. david alan harvey

    LASSAL…

    where are you? anyway a big Happy Birthday hug from me….

    FROSTFROG

    yes, it seemed like almost impossible for you to come to Mississippi….we will meet one way or another however…i am sure of it..

  1204. a civilian-mass audience

    PAUL…
    YOU are the teacher in our BURNing family…I am just a lifelong student…
    I really enjoy reading your teaching explorations
    cause once a teacher …always a teacher:)))
    keep rolling,mate!

    P.S …I am the civilian of Love…

  1205. Paul Parker

    Civi…
    That´s very kind of you! But surely the teacher is David! Everything I´ve learnt over the last 3/4 years is somehow 99% directly or indirectly got something to do with him. :)))
    Yes, I do have an obsession with learning I usually dig deep into anything that interests me and of course anything I find that may benefit anyone round here will also enjoy my latest breakthrough. I usually keep a copy of everything I find just in case…
    Civi…this is the comment David wrote on Alec Soth´s blog the night I are suddenly innocently discovered RoadTrips clicked on the link and I suppose that was the day the landscape photographer within me started to wither!! :)this will just show how long I´ve been hanging round here quietly…

    “it seems to me that the most sophisticated photgraphy books do not have author photographs at all….generally speaking, if i see an author photo on a photographic book, i know immediately it is probably a book not to be taken seriosly….cindy sherman aside!!!

    literary works , for some reason, are different….hemmingway was a master at having his photograph made properly……write a book, call karsh!!

    Comment by david alan harvey — January 18, 2007 @ 3:55 am”

    I´ve feel a little more like those Indians in the good old westerns who could tell exactly how many hours the bad guy had left the camp and which direction by touching the camp fire and searching for the broken branch :)

  1209. Frostfrog

    I have to put the cats above all else… thank you, Eva. What a great day that was for you! It must have been wonderful, to be down at the edge of the ocean and to have a bunch of cats come walking by, intent on going to wherever they were going.

    Lassal – Happy birthday!

    Civi – To go to your place and hang out with chickens and philosophers – not to mention the promised cat – hey – this will be one of my life’s highlights.

    I look forward to it, David.

  1210. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA,
    yeah…cats do swim…ask FROSTFROG
    who will meet with DAH one way or another
    who will meet with PAULP cause they are both teachers
    who will meet with MIKER who wishes Happy B-Day to LASSAL
    who is not here but she will meet THODORIS cause they are making
    beautiful books who will meet with FRAMERS who lives in Liverpool
    and she plays music who will meet with PANOS who loves music too
    and believes I am the glue…
    EVA…
    it’s a Circle of Friends…just simple mathematics…

    oime…I better stop eating…I am full of ideas…:)))

  1211. a civilian-mass audience

    “When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.”
    Jimi Hendrix

    until that time comes…I will fight for my right to PARTYYYYYYYY…….

    Come on BURNIANS…bring it on

  1212. a civilian-mass audience

    ADMIN,
    are you gonna close down the lights on this aisle…?
    Are we moving to the new one…”Emerging Photographer Fund 2011 – Call for Entries”?

    should we go…or should we stay?:)

  1220. Ross Nolly

    Gordon; “Everyone, look around you” That’s what I’m trying to do at the moment. Not my own life, but things/people that are around me.

    Today I finally managed to have the first decent shoot for a few weeks (dodgy knee back to 80% now!). Back shooting the kids project again, but with slightly altered ideas..

    Today I hitched a ride with a mate (he has an organic farm) delivering a rare breed pig to another breeder. On the way home we stopped at a beach for sandwiches and a coffee (yes, we’re both on a budget, so a packed lunch!). A family were reeling in their long-line (fishing); so I managed to get some really nice images of the kids and family together. Just simple stuff, but really nice to be back shooting again….

    From now on; every time my friend does a delivery I’ll be hitching a ride; jumping off somewhere interesting and being picked up a few hours later when he returns. A nice frugal way to get out of the province to shoot; and hopefully a few unexpected shooting surprises!

    Cheers :-)

  1221. eva

    Bill.. it was great.. in the pic there are two more missing, too many to fit into the frame.. never seen such a thing with cats.. I only wish I was taller..

    Got another one the day before, about 200 km away.. now this one wasn’t that pleased at having his picture taken:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bg2PTcglRX1VhuCF0ve1bw?feat=directlink

    Ross… that friend of yours with the organic farm.. do I see a story there??

    And Civi.. of all things Panos said up to today, on this one he is SO right, you ARE the glue!!

  1222. Ross Nolly

    Eva;

    Funny you mention that! That subject did come up today. I’ve written/photographed a heap of stories about their farm; but only for mainstream organic magazines (mostly been “photo-library/newspaper” type images/writing); but never a serious photo essay.

    They don’t realise how truly unique their life is; and we talked about that today too. Most people say to them “You’re so lucky!” But they don’t know the sacrifices and tremendous amount of work they’ve made (and continue to do) to achieve their lifestyle.

    I am going to shoot more at their place (they’re true, wonderful friends), but I have got a lot on my plate and don’t want to do a “once-over lightly” on any projects I’m already shooting. I’ll just shoot and record audio etc at their place when I see them, and put it aside for later use.

  1225. a civilian-mass audience

    hmm…glue…is that why I feel sticky …?:)))

    EVA…the cat is gonna get you…she is focused:)

    ROSSY…do they have chickens…if they do…take a picture for me…
    I can wait:)

    MYGRACIE…KATIEEE was here…I think she missed your ice-cream…
    I miss your spirit…

    oh,well…how do you wash off the glue?…no clue:)

    back to our organic program!

  1227. a civilian-mass audience

    Thanks ROSSY…
    you know…I can wait:)

    “The real test of friendship is: can you literally do nothing with the other person? Can you enjoy those moments of life that are utterly simple?”

    I simply love you ALLLL…

    Don’t forget to edit…you have to submit…

    I will be back.

  1228. Frostfrog

    Thanks, David –

    and you, too, Eva.

    I always love seeing a picture of a cat.

    As it happened, I have been working on a personal India project all day, one that cats play a significant role in and so I have been looking at a lot of cat photos.

  1229. mw

    Hi all. My card filled up on my walking around camera so I got to check out where I’ve been for the past month. Apparently, there’s been a lot of snow here in New York. Who knew? Several pics of some blurry guy with a flash, too. What’s up with that?

  1230. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    Your images have a particular look… kind of “muted” look, sort of greyish. Is that your camera or do you play about with Lightroom/Photoshop?

  1231. Paul Parker

    Civi…
    Thanks for the Hendrix quote apart from being a Hendrix fanatic it came in handy this morning…
    My son woke up remembering he had extra homework…He had to draw a dove of peace, that´s 7:50 am and we leave for school at 8:30, so scrambling on crutches to draw, colour and cutout together the dove…Then he remembered he had to write a quote about peace which I had to translate into Spanish and then my wife into Catalan….:)) So thanks!

  1232. eva

    Paul Parker.. thank you NOT for your link.. don’t you think I have enough books already??? ;)

    Kids are kids are kids..

  1233. mw

    Paul, nah, those were just muted, grayish scenes. The color is pretty close to accurate.

    I don’t use photoshop for much. Most of my work is done in camera. I use Raw Photo Processor for almost all of the rest.

  1234. Paul Parker

    mw…
    well I´m totally the opposite my images always have extensive work in camera raw and Photoshop…I´m always trying to run away from the in-camera digital look. I suppose the only reason I shoot digital is because where I live there isn´t any reliable colour lab left. There is no doubt digital is here to stay and I accept it but I had to practice/study a lot of Photoshop to feel comfortable with digital. But anyway I´ve been shooting digital part-time since 1999 so I should know my way round it :)
    This is an example of the “look” I seek in my digital files…
    http://adesirecalledcamera.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/favourable-light/

  1236. mw

    In camera work isn’t about a look, it’s about capturing all of the information in the photo. Raw processing takes that a step or more further. Then, if reality is not what I’m after, I have all possible options for getting the look I want. If you screw up the capture and initial developing, your choices are limited. It’s not that different than film.

    And I get the impression that most of you film people who have made every effort to understand and experiment with chemical based processing pay no attention whatsoever to the options for developing raw digital photos. The raw developers are not all the same. And Adobe Camera Raw has it’s share of flaws. What you see is not what the camera captured.

  1239. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    I do pay a lot attention to Raw conversions… I actually include it in my lessons. The best way I understand how any RAW converter works is by thinking it were 10 film developers rolled into one, with all possible combinations of development times, agitations, and temperatures being available.
    I know that Raw processor you are talking about but I’m not convinced the heated arguments over RAW converters have much more importance than the heated arguments over B&W film developers.
    Just remember we make photographs for people, not photometers :))

  1241. Paul Parker

    Thodoris…
    Yes another good book for Eva:) Amazing what crazy SH*T some people are capable of just because their skin is lighter than others.

  1242. mw

    Just remember we make photographs for people, not photometers :))

    Question is, do we make the aesthetic choices, or does Adobe/Canon (whoever) make them for us? Guess I’ve missed the heated arguments on Raw developers, just go by what I see and understand through research. All Raw developers are different. Some are better than others. Objectively better. E.g., one might create color artifacts where another won’t. And of course their may be subjective concerns as well. Some will handle saturation or black point or contrast or whatever better than others. And some have nice bells and whistles, like being able to select areas of the image and apply local modifications. It’s not unusual for me to do the initial development in one raw processor and then open it in another to apply local corrections. Depends on the state of the capture.

    But back to your point, none of that is technical for technical’s sake. It’s aesthetic control for aesthetics’ sake.

  1243. Paul Parker

    mw…
    have you actually noticed any significant diferences with the same file in different converters?
    I did some tests with a Phase One P45 (just for fun) with diferent raw converters and yes one converter would have a certain advantage over another but that same advantage would be cancelled out by something else lacking afterwards!
    :)Take a look at this…
    http://adesirecalledcamera.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/mw/

  1244. Lassal

    Sorry for jumping in betweeen the conversation …

    CIVI,
    thanks for the sweet birthday wishes, and for the reminder to party. Guess I need it, although I am postponing the party until the weather gets friendlier…
    As Panos said, you are the BURN glue! And the Facebook glue too. :))

    PANOS, THODORIS, FROSTFROG, PAUL PARKER, MIKE R, DAH …
    and all the other BURNians who left a note on FB:
    :))) nice, thanks very much!!! Birthday wishes are always underestimated but oh so lovely to get!! :) … Hope we meet this year …

    DAH,
    I am right here … Busy as a bee though,. Working on my projects and on the book for my father, which I mentioned to you the other day on Skype, and for which I am getting some nice material from a handfull of BURNians (great people here – thanks yall!!!).
    The book will be different than originally planned because due to the weather I did not manage to get the photographs I orininally was looking for. So maybe I will make a second edition one day. For this one I had to change the concept and have more work on the table due to that which will require more time for preparation. And it got a bit risky too. No risk no fun, right?
    … so I decided to get things done – a bit more under pressure – and to spend less time online until summer, when whole new photography chapter will start for me, as you know.

    But I am right here … :)
    Always there for BURN.

  1249. Paul Parker

    The historian Herodotus (484 – ca. 425 BCE), and the scholar Panos Skoulidas of Venice Beach, made early lists of seven wonders.
    The seven wonders included:
    • Great Pyramid of Giza
    • Hanging Gardens of Babylon
    • Statue of Zeus at Olympia
    • Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
    • Kibutz Rooftop
    • Colossus of Rhodes
    • Lighthouse of Alexandria

  1250. eva

    Thodoris, Paul… after having seen one of those ‘Tea Party’ videos into which I bumbped by accident a while ago this KKK books looks .. ehm.. tame and normal.. perhaps it was the venom, the stupidity of what was said that made a huge difference.. to hear it.. I couldn’t believe it is for real..

  1251. panos skoulidas

    lol….thanks Paul …
    im watching the movie “when you’re strange” about THE DOORS for 16th time the last 3 days…
    i do not consider it an obsession;)

    (that also happened to me a month ago with the movie RESTREPO)

    btw, RESTREPO is nominated for this years Oscar awards..
    GOOD LUCK TIM…..fingers crossed…

  1252. mw

    Okay Paul, and at the risk of irritating those who don’t care, it’s a slow day at work so I did some testing, opening and comparing the same file in Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) and Raw Photo Professional (RPP). I made every effort to make the settings the same. No additional exposure, contrast, saturation, black point or anything, opened as 16 bit Lab. Then put on different layers in the same Photoshop file.

    At a glance it is obvious that they are very different and the info palette and curves confirm it. The RPP is flatter and has more detail in the shadows and highlights. The curve indicates it has significantly more information. To my eye, remembering the scene, the RPP is much more color accurate. The ACR has more contrast. Some areas of the photo are more saturated than RPP, others less so. When you zoom in, you see much more color noise in the RPP, particularly in skin tones. The farther you zoom in, the more pleasing the skin tones in the ACR processed image. They are pretty much all reds and yellow whereas the RPP contains splotches of magentas and cyans.

    So just judging by this one photo, it appears that ACR may do some under the hood things to make the image more pleasing, perhaps identifying and concentrating on skin tones, color noise, and contrast. Who knows? But with the much more robust curve coming out of RPP, it would be much easier to use photoshop to make the RPP image look like the ACR than vice versa. Or to look like something else entirely for that matter. There’s simply more information to work with in the RPP image. In this one case, at least.

    So if that’s true that ACR is doing stuff under the hood to make the picture prettier in a conventional manner, that’s exactly the kind of thing I don’t like. I prefer to make my own aesthetic choices rather than have them made for me by a PR guy at Adobe or Canon. And even if that’s not the case, there is no denying that the different raw developers produce different results, so it only makes sense to check out as many as possible and use the one that suits your aesthetics best for any particular photo or project.

  1253. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    BTW I´m enjoying this talk because I´m learning and if I link any image it isn´t to prove you wrong OK! Just remember with RPP you better use a very good lens. The last time I tried it out it had no way of correcting the difficulties of chromatic aberration. (let´s use the word “chromatic aberration” carefully because its a term that’s regularly misused today to describe any kind of color fringing that appears in a photograph.)
    I´m absolutely sure ACR is doing things under the hood and perhaps that is why I always end up in Photoshop. One thing I´ve yet to correct satisfactorily in any Raw converter is colour casts.
    So you work in LAB, I´m impressed that is one area I´m weak on!! I work in LAB mode only to work saturation without affecting contrast by using curves.Be careful jumping back and forth between RGB and LAB can damage the image but I think it´s worth it if my final image benefits from it.

  1257. david alan harvey

    PANOS…

    great stuff!! why is this the first time we are seeing these?? brings a sentimental tear to my eye…yes, great great moments up there , and that one particular night was just well you could eat it with a spoon (an old expression)..good wine, intelligent attractive women and men, good weed, nice moon, perfect temperature…damn, did we appreciate it?? that is always how i feel when i see pics like this..did we KNOW how good it was??

  1258. Ross Nolly

    “did we KNOW how good it was??”

    Usually not til after the event and it’s long gone I’m afraid. But hey; that’s what good memories are all about I suppose… :-)

  1259. eva

    Not the first time.. I remember these.. and I wasn’t there, so I must have seen pics of the event.. guess Ross is right..

  1260. panos skoulidas

    “did we KNOW how good it was??”
    —————-
    Yea I hear u.. That was the night that ended up in Jail (for shooting photos “too close” accordind to the cops…
    and ofcourse..
    YOU bailed me out.. Can’t forget that night amigo.. even if I try..

  1262. Gordon Lafleur

    DAH

    There was a Canadian Icon, Pierre Berton, (now gone), whom I remmember once in an interview describing such moments, and commenting on the fact that we seldom recognise them as they are occuring.
    I’m sure we’ve all had defining moments. Likely as not we did not recognise them at the time.

    I think Maslow described them as “peak experiences”

    from wikipedia “Peak experiences are described by Maslow as especially joyous and exciting moments in life, involving sudden feelings of intense happiness and well-being, wonder and awe, and possibly also involving an awareness of transcendental unity or knowledge of higher truth (as though perceiving the world from an altered, and often vastly profound and awe-inspiring perspective)”

    Looking forward to such an experience with you all someday.

    Cheers

  1264. a civilian-mass audience

    For ALL MY BURNIANS:

    “LOVE your life. Accept it, just as it is. Today. NOWW. So that those moments of happiness you’re waiting for don’t pass you by.”

    For PANOS and for All of you that …have been through hell and came back:

    “The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers.”
    M. Scott Peck (American psychiatrist and Author, 1936-2005)

    “Use your precious moments to live life fully every single second of every single day.”

    The moment GORDON pre-ordered the Fuji X100…that moment was a fine moment…
    therefore there are no ordinary moments…

    I am going to make some coffee now…my finest moment…oime

  1266. Justin Smith

    PANOS:

    Re: The Doors. Please don’t wear your leathers for two weeks straight :-)

    GORDON:

    Looking forward to your “real-life” review of the X-100. Looks like a game-changer for those of us who can’t afford a digital rangefinder.

  1267. a civilian-mass audience

    we had PANOS…now, I see HERVE… published…

    I have seen EMCD,SEAN,GLENN,ANDREW…so many …
    come on…don’t be shy…I can’t track you all down…I am busy with philosophy,chickens,wine…
    come on …show me what you got…

    I don’t want to repeat myself…BUT yes, the Universe is working (with some help from the Great teachers and your moving arshhh…)

    Keep it up…make your “glue” proud!!!

  1268. mw

    Paul, don’t worry, I don’t consider this kind of conversation an argument and I’m certainly not an expert in the details. I work in Lab because a long time ago someone I respect told me to work in Lab so that’s what I’ve always done. Regarding the raw developers, I think of them like film when you first open the photo. Each provides a different look. Then once the image is open, you get do the developer part. I didn’t mean to imply that I don’t use photoshop, just do as much as possible in the developer. And when using RPP, I have it set up with the intention of doing post processing. For a properly exposed photo, I always adjust the curve in photoshop at the very least. If I plan to print a large image, which has been rare of late, I look at things such as noise and sharpening a lot closer.

    Regarding chromatic aberration, I don’t notice a lot of it (Canon L’s), but my understanding is that no raw developer can fix it correctly in every instance and that the attempt often causes problems in other parts of the photo. It’s true that RPP doesn’t even try to fix it, but I consider that a good thing. I don’t mean to be doing advertising work for RPP, each to their own you know, but it seems to be a good baseline against which to compare since it appears to make the fewest aesthetic choices on its own.

  1270. david alan harvey

    GORDON …

    yes yes we know this..i always know it, and try to appreciate it, but savoring just goes too quickly….i think actually this is the reason i take pictures…to try to stop or slow down this rapid sequence of events that is life that go by so damn quickly…

    now, speaking of savoring and appreciation, i am totally jealous you will get your hands on that new Fuji…very very anxious to see how it is…it surely looks terrific..i mean it looks like it is very functional…and an answer (maybe) to a 10k Leica…in the meantime my GF1 does not disappoint…but i too will go for this Fuji..after your preliminary reports here to all of us of course…this is your obvious JOB here on Burn now….March?

    cheers, david

  1271. mw

    John, that’s a great visual argument for old ways being the best ways.

    BTW, did you see the note I dropped a few weeks back saying I had watched “Soy Cuba?” Basically, thought the camera work was fantastic, dude knows tracking shots, and found the infrared very interesting, but mainly as a demo of what I don’t like about infrared. Was curious why you wanted me to see it?

  1272. Mike R

    John G, 5.5 hours, Rodinal: that was a good sleep. I remember reading in a book I had a long time ago called darkroom (why did I throw it away!) where Gene Smith discussed his darkroom routine. He said that when he used to smoke he would leave his films in the developer and go outside the darkroom to have a cigarette. When he stopped smoking (I didn’t think he stopped anything!) he noticed a change in his photos, then remembered the smoke break and re-introduced the “smoke time” into routine. Everything returned to normal.

    Gordon, when the X100 was announced I really fancied it but I went the film route instead. Don’t want to rain on your parade but here is a link to Danny Lyon’s blog

    http://dektol.wordpress.com/

    where he discusses “The end of photography”. I love his description in Part 2 of the I-Attic.

    Whether you agree with all that Danny writes or not, I think that we all here can agree on the point that if we want our photography to survive we had better make prints because, probably, no-one else is going to be bothered to print our negs or move our digital archive to the new storage method after we are dead.

    Mike.

  1273. eva

    Panos… nothing to envy.. it’s called selective memory.. I hardly ever remember names (of photographers, of musicians, authors.. in general), but usually I remember pictures, the music, pieces of sentences.. it’s only when I run again and again into the same photographer and if the pictures move me, talk to me, that I start to remember the name also, the story maybe, it is then that I associate the work and who has done it.. if I need to find a picture in one of the photobooks I have I do not read the name on the spine, I look at the cover..

    I don’t need drugs, alcohol.. I’m already ‘out there’ enough by myself.. probably in the genes.. one of my grandfathers was declared mad and ended up in a nuthouse..

  1274. eva

    John.. woah, looks great, maybe a bitch to print, but does look great!

    Talking about film, stumbled over this, don’t know who’s said it though:

    “When I shoot film I’m always looking for the next photo, when I shoot digital I keep looking at the last photo.”

  1275. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY…

    getting ready to order paper, developer etc…trying to match old Kodak Medalist paper..ever heard of it? a cold toned paper but good black…anything you know of that is close? Agfa was also similar..what now is either cold or neutral, solid blacks? super portrait on Flickr

  1276. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    i never said it exactly like that but i always said that with film you keeping looking ahead, keep moving forward, with digi you are always going back looking at what you did…it is a whole different mentality when there is no instant gratification…with film you MUST move ahead and explore…with digi one must fight the temptation to be easily satisfied…i find this personally to be a tremendous struggle…

    cheers, david

  1278. eva

    David…

    I find film, for that reason, extremely liberating.. and thought it’s easy to fool the digi cam, just by putting black tape over the screen (I do have a digi cam, but rarely use it).. thing is, the only way to know when the battery dies or the card is full it’s by reading it on the screen.. so tape off and temptation on..

  1279. Paul Parker

    David…
    a friend of mine always used to shoot with Tri-x and used Agfa MCC FB paper. He was so in love with that paper that when Agfa dissapeared he actually gave up shooting film. However he now has gone back to printing in the darkroom with his Tri-x film now that Adox has introduced a replacement for his Agfa paper… Adox MCC110 and developed in Neutol WA.
    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/adox_mcc_110.php
    I don´t know if this will help you out but just in case :))
    I´m off to the beach… a lovely cold sunny and windy winter afternoon, blue skies with brilliant white clouds and probably a load of surfers who should provide something interesting for my camera.

  1280. Gordon Lafleur

    Mike R

    Not even damp. Lyons rant was really directed at cell phone/ipod users. I sort of agree with him and use neither.
    Lyon is lucky enough to be a hot photographic property and is one of the very few who is able to bash out a few prints of his old work anytime he needs a few bucks.

    There is no real need to re-hash the film vs digi thing. From any perspective you want to measure, digi wins. The only place film wins is when measuring nostalgia and perhaps the cool factor.

    David, looking back or looking forward, dig vs film. Yes shooting digi changes our approach in a huge way, and is a struggle. But it is not a struggle without rewards.

    Many of us used to spend a fortune on polaroid film for example, just to confirm lighting, exposure etc before shooting with “real” film. When shooting film, you HAD to look forward, there was no choice. If the shot was a “must get”, you made darn sure that you covered your ass and didn’t take any chances. How often did we find out later that we missed a shot? Now, I take all the chances I want knowing I can see instantly if I am getting what I need, and shoot endless variations if I want with an endless roll of digital film.

    I am very much looking forward to the fuji. As an old Leica user, I am hoping and trusting that the hybrid bright-line EVF viewfinder will be as good as promised. I’ll let you know my impressions as soon as I get my hands on it.

  1281. Mike R

    Gordon, yes, please do let us know what you think of the camera. DP Review have had a sample in their hands and, apparently, the build quality is exemplary. I’m not sure how old the article by Danny Lyon is, but my point about printing still stands: analogue or digital.

    Best,

    Mike.

  1283. Mike R

    Paul, the best thing digital did for photography was to free the colour photographer from the constraints of the traditional print process i.e. The inkjet printer; what’s not to love!

    Digital prints can now match or exceed the life of traditional darkroom prints. A darkroom produced b&w print is something special though.

    DAH, do you know when the new Magnum “contact print” book is due out? Any chance of a Burn teaser?

    Mike.

  1284. david alan harvey

    GORDON..

    i think film still CLEARLY wins beyond nostalgia and cool factor in b&w medium or large format big prints..tonal range? film

    basically i agree with Paul…color digi, b&w film

    but what do i have in my backpack right now? digi….it wins on ease, and on so many fronts…

  1285. Paul Parker

    Mw…
    My whole life is struggle with simplification… I want the least hassle I can find and get on with my image, so the only reason I work with Camera Raw is because I know it like the back of my hand… but I have tried ALL the other ones, the reason I haven´t tried too much RPP converter is I only use Mac when I´m at the school. I think it is brilliant what Andrey Tverdokhleb has accomplished with that converter and I wish someone could do a similar thing and be able to customise cameras by breaking into the internal code of each camera…I would love to be able to turn the iso dial on my g10 into a aperture dial :))
    Mw, have you ever tried Photokit Sharpener? I use it on every image I work with.
    My only complaint with all converters is I am forced into Photoshop to finally get an image I like. I suppose you saw the post on my blog, there is a considerable evolution between before and after photoshop…
    Now I think Mw that is all I´ve got to say about converters…I don´t want to be banished to photonet!! :))

  1286. david alan harvey

    MIKE R

    yes, we can do a Burn teaser i am sure on the Magnum Contacts book…but i just do not know at the moment..it is saturday or i would pick up the phone right now and call London to see when the book is due…i will check on monday….remind me if i forget…lots going on…smiling

  1287. Mike R

    Paul, that should read “digital gave us the inkjet printer” i.e. the inkjet was the freedom, not the constraint.

    Thinking about it, perhaps the cost of the ink / dye should be the constraint.

    Mike.

  1289. Paul Parker

    Mike R…
    Yes ink is one hell of constraint!!
    My Imageprint Rip set me back about the same price as my printer!! But it is very, very good.

  1290. Paul Parker

    MikeR, David, Gordon…
    One of my pupils was telling me the other day she read a article in a french magazine where Salgado admitted to be shooting digital. But wait!! Back at the “lab” it was printed through a digital enlarger onto 4×5 Tri-x negative and then printed on good old B/W paper!!

  1291. Gordon Lafleur

    David

    I did overstate my case for digital a bit. Photographs made with medium and large format cameras do have that special look that cannot be duplicated, largely due to the longer focal lengh lenses and their more limited depth of field for any given angle of view. I’m hoping for a breakthough in sensor technology that will give us reasonably priced large digital ‘film’.

    Small traditional silver prints still have a quality hard to equal on inkjet. For large prints, I believe inkjet wins big time, black and white or colour.

  1294. Ross Nolly

    John G;

    I’m going to have my first crack at developing B&W film in a couple of weeks. I’ve never done it before! Yes; even at the ripe old age of (nearly) 48! I always shot slide for mags and photo-libraries so never had a go at developing. I’ll let you know whether you can actually teach an old dog any new tricks!

  1297. Ross Nolly

    I’m really lucky in that my local Fuji place still develops C-41 120-film. They only charge $5.50 per roll for dev only (same day); which makes medium format so much more affordable.

  1298. eva

    Ross, it’s easy.. 35mm film easier to get on the reel than 120.. the rest is mechanical.. good luck!

  1299. tom hyde

    Oh man, I loved medalist, had forgotten all about it.

    Ross, try the 1:100 rodinal stand dev., low key, forgiving, nice contrast, just don’t fall asleep. Funny, I always keep my digi preview on B&W these days, even when shooting color. Rarely look when in “the midst of it,” much better about chumping after I missed a couple of great photos. Embarrassing.

    Okay, back to my jack in the irish pub after hours in the cold rain. I may move in.

  1300. Paul Parker

    Ross Nolly…
    I still miss above all going to the lab picking up my Velvia, Provia or whatever film I used and looking at that medium format tranny. If I had it my way I would still shoot slide film and scan it and print it with my printer but I have no reliable lab near me.
    ANYONE got any idea what kind of project I could shoot with 50 rolls of out of date Kodak E100G film?… a friend gave it to me after her fridge broke whilst away on holiday for a month. I´m thinking of cross processing all of it…

  1301. marcin luczkowski

    well… comparison of colors from digital camera to well scanned color reversal film is like equate orginal El Greco paintings and reproductions from book about El Greco’s followers.

    re something like that :D

  1302. Ross Nolly

    Tom; I’ve been trying to find some Rodinal (or alternative copy) but can’t find any here in NZ. I might see if I can get some from Freestyle, but not sure how happy the postal service about developing chemicals.

    Eva; Thanks for that! I’ve had a couple of daylight Patterson tanks sitting around for about 5-years just waiting!

    Paul; Before I stopped using K25 and 64, all Kodachrome films had to be sent to the US (from New Zealand) for processing. It took 13-weeks to get your films back! Now that IS the opposite of instant gratification! :-)

  1303. Paul Parker

    marcin luczkowski…
    I know what you mean!! :)
    But it can be nearly equaled if you are any good at photoshop.

  1304. Paul Parker

    Ross…
    Can you believe I never tried any Kodachrome film!! So pathetic and now I wish I had.

  1309. david alan harvey

    MARCIN..

    you are alive!! where have you been? if you are not here, it just isn’t the same…no matter what you say…. :) in this case , you do make sense…my only problem is that i have never actually made scientific tests to compare..

  1311. Thodoris Tzalavras

    Have been using my low-end A4 size inkjet printer for some time now for producing miniature booklets to serve as dummies for checking out layouts etc.

    The idea of producing an ACTUAL book on a high-end large format inkjet printer, crossed my mind more than a year ago, but since I don’t have one I haven’t tested it yet. Finding a suitable paper stock that can both take ink the right way AND can be folded properly into 8 or 12 page layouts, is one of the problems I have already thought about.

    Any of you who own such printers have done anything like it?

  1312. john gladdy

    DAVID ALAN HARVEY.
    ADOX. do a great cold tone paper.’Fine print vario classic’. proper old school paper.

    KENTMERE. Do a grade 2 bromide cold tone paper and a multicontrast neutral/cold paper. If you can get the contrast you need from a grade 2 then the bromide paper could be up your street.

    I love the Czech FOMA papers, but they are slightly warm and you would have to maybe add some bromide to the dev if you want that cold black look.

    There is a lot of noise going on for ADOX MCC110 comparing it to Oriental seagull, but I have never used either so I cant really reccommend.
    Moersch 4812 or Eukobrom are good places to start for developer..The moersch partcularly is fantastic. Very slow working, plenty of time to judge the snatch point right.

    MICHAEL WEBSTER. SOY CUBA. Just the fantastic cinematography, and the fantastic cinematography…etc etc.

  1313. tom hyde

    Sat. Afternoon, Wandering city streets in the rain, camera, pandora, and yes, that too … anything better?

  1315. marcin luczkowski

    David,

    scientific tests to compare????… sleep your reason… wake up your heart… drink vine, eat something delicious, look at pretty girl, breath fresh wind… after that you will see The Difference between a color and The Color… :))))

    Yes, I am still alive… isn’t it fascinating?

    sp, still waiting for rio story in NatGeo.

  1316. Paul Parker

    David…
    Maybe you didn´t notice my comment this afternoon…
    a friend of mine always used to shoot with Tri-x and used Agfa MCC FB paper. He was so in love with that paper that when Agfa dissapeared he actually gave up shooting film and darkeoom printing. However he now has gone back to printing in the darkroom with his Tri-x film now that Adox has introduced a replacement for his Agfa paper… Adox MCC110 and developed in Neutol WA.
    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/adox_mcc_110.php

  1321. Gordon Lafleur

    Paul Parker

    “ANYONE got any idea what kind of project I could shoot with 50 rolls of out of date Kodak E100G film?… a friend gave it to me after her fridge broke whilst away on holiday for a month. I´m thinking of cross processing all of it…”

    Cross dressing?

  1322. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS…as we speak…I am expecting a family from Egypt…
    only 3 did make it to Athens…the others stuck in Cairo…
    hmmm…let’s see…we kinda lost in translation…
    but I know their names…Asim,Nourbese and Rehema…I think:)

    Civilian’s house will be full again…
    my chickens are ready…!

    I will be back

  1323. panos skoulidas

    I am expecting a family from Egypt…
    only 3 did make it to Athens…the others stuck in Cairo…
    ———————————————————–

    wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1326. Jason_Houge

    hey Panos – Those shots from DAH’s roof and around Venice – great stuff. The stuff from NY makes me wish I was there again! I see they painted more of the roof!
    Mike C’s beard is gone.. haha Almost didn’t recognize him.

    DAH – Have any advise for working with PowerHouse?

    All – Hope everyone has been well!! My last semester in undergrad just began – been busy getting stuff done and planning for a solo show this summer… Anyone have advice of things to expect from their first solo shows?
    I’ll be on again tomorrow :)

  1327. mw

    ANYONE got any idea what kind of project I could shoot with 50 rolls of out of date Kodak E100G film?

    In the spirit of strangers in a shower and dogs in a car, I thought it would be extremely original to do cats in the shower, but I’m not a cat photographing type, so you’re welcome to it. Funny though, looking at the latest raw card from my walking around camera, I see I took a picture of a cat, not, unfortunately, in a shower, but I know a lot of people like cats, so I’ll share it anyway. Enjoy.

    Paul, regarding the photos you linked to in the raw developer conversation, they don’t strike me as relevant. I mean, neither of them are attempts at pure color accuracy in depicting the scene. They are both amalgams of aesthetic choices, whether by you or some combination of you and Adobe. I don’t necessarily see the second one as superior to the first. Simply a different aesthetic. And there are many other possibilities. My fear with that kind of thing is that you are falling into an Adobe trap. Making it too much about drama. I think it was you who mentioned William Eggleston? Would he handle color like that? That’s why I find myself fooling with other developers. First, it’s easier to get color accuracy. Second, when I make my own aesthetic choices, they don’t come out looking so similar to everyone else who uses ACR and Photoshop. Know what I’m sayin?

  1329. Ross Nolly

    Speaking of dogs in cars… Why is it that I feel differently about that series now knowing it was a set-up preconception involving lights etc, (not “chance/found” situations)? Don’t get me wrong; I still enjoy the images and have no problem with conceptual ideas etc. But for some reason the series “feels” differently (to me) after discovering that fact.

    I suppose it say’s more about me than it does about the images! :-)

  1331. Frostfrog

    Don’t have time to catch up with everything, so I’ll keep it to animals…

    MW – Nice shot of the cat.

    Ross – I haven’t read the part about the dogs in the car series being set-up preconception involving lights, but I highlys suspect that was the case. For years now I have been stopping to photograph just about every dog in a car that I ever come upon – and while, once in rare while, the found lighting can be pretty neat, I have not ever found the lighting to be like what I saw in the series, so that was what I thought.

    The preconception does tell a story, but also adds an interesting note to the mix. A dog can’t fake feeling and emotion – so, in the pictures where the dogs look lonely and miserable, that must be how they felt. In which case, in order to communicate how lonely and miserable it can be for dogs to be left in the car, the photographer caused them to feel lonely and miserable.

    Just an observation, not a judgement.

  1332. Ross Nolly

    Bill; Not a judgement from me either. Lke I said, it probably says more about me. I do like the images, but knowing it was previsualised sort of takes the emotion out of them (for me).

    Cheers :-)

  1334. david alan harvey

    ROSS…

    interesting about your feeling with dogs in cars…i did not see the comment that suggested the pictures were controlled, but i realized just by looking at the lighting that the pictures were set up at least to some degree…after we published that story, i started receiving emails from people who had seen essays of dogs in cars prior and i looked at several, including one published book…still the strobe lit pictures were by far the best that i have seen…i guess i just am curious why you lose interest because the picture was lit or “set up”…a car is not exactly a natural habitat for a dog ……people put dogs in cars…whether they are put there to have their picture taken or to please wait while i get the groceries seems to be a very fine point..

    getting permission from an owner to light a dog sitting in a car that you just happen to see would of course not be difficult at all, so not sure why this even needed to be so controlled in the first place…but that part doesn’t make much difference to me..i like much of totally controlled photography…that is i like fiction all around…i am not married to photojournalism being the “only way” to see the world…

    however my curiosity remains as to why the photographer did not do more and totally finish this work and do a book which seems so so obvious….it seems also that once you decide to photograph dogs in cars and perhaps use lights to do it, that the possibilities just fire the imagination beyond all belief…

    JASON…

    you asked about Powerhouse…in what context? you want to publish a book with them? my experience with Powerhouse on Living Proof was just terrific….i had heard stories of difficulty, but experienced no such thing….it is true they have different kinds of relationships with different authors and perhaps a variety of biz relationships…mine was just a straight up deal..they published the book, they financed the book…….in any case, mine was all positive experience …..but maybe you are asking a different type of question..ask again with specificity please….

    congrats on the solo show…only tip…just make sure they do it your way and make sure the lighting is right..photographers tend to only look at the wall space…forget the walls…think of the lights….so cool for you……

    cheers, david

  1335. david alan harvey

    PAUL…

    thanks for the tips…i will look up Adox and order some if i can…

    MARCIN..

    well i am sure you do know that the reason i do not do scientific tests is that i am indeed standing on the sand dune with the wind in my face…..and i am indeed working with the Mamiya VII and mostly Tri-X for exactly the reasons you suggest..by the way my medium format images will be exhibited in Italy later this year…the same prints that were in Madrid….oh yes, you can see the FILM in these prints for sure…

    ahhh yes, Rio for NatGeo..well i still have one more trip to make ..either now in a few days or after
    Carnaval in a few weeks…so NatGeo cannot publish what i have not finished…there is a half hour tv show that is on the networks in Poland…see it?? i would say that most NatGeo stories actually do take at least two years from start to finish in terms of when you take the first picture until it ends up in the magazine…sometimes faster, but not usually….if i do a Rio book, it will be very fast however….but i cannot do a Rio book until NatGeo uses the ones i have in the magazine first..or, i must take different pictures..they have the first time rights and a 90 day hold on the pictures since they paid me to do it….it was one year ago that i went down for the first time….in this fast paced internet world i am sure it seems like forever…but i enjoy savoring a project…i am never in a hurry….after all Marcin, it is just like having the wind in your face or enjoying that glass of wine and the music…any reason to rush??

    cheers, david

  1336. sam harris

    DAH / All…

    Speaking of exhibitions…

    Some great news. I’ve just been invited to exhibit Postcards from Home at the Sydney Photo Festival (Head On) in May, and they’ve asked me to do a solo show!
    Now that’s put a spin on my weekend… Trent Parke is doing a retrospective as part of the festival, looking forward to seeing that. And maybe I’ll even get to meet Imants : ))

    cheers
    Sam

  1338. david alan harvey

    GORDON

    well now you are talking about two different things…darkroom prints vs. inkjet prints is a different discussion than simply digi vs film..the big prints i made were inkjet prints but shot on film…large inkjets from my digi capture are not the same as my inkjets from med format film capture….yes, darkroom prints are only good up to say 11×14…well, maybe 16×20 max….digital capture is terrific …i shoot digi every day..and the inkjet prints absolutely amazing….probably “better” in most ways than film….film only gives us a subtle look of difference…probably noticed by few….making no difference to most….because , yes it is the image that matters….but despite many years of seeing my work reproduced in magazines and books and usually in the very best reproduction possible, i cannot help but still be in love with a truly fine print…a fine print in my hand or on the wall takes on a totally new life than whatever it was in a magazine or book or now on the computer screen…for me still the ultimate experience of photography is a combo of visual expression AND the craftsmanship that can go into a fine print…hence my continuing love of film…..actually it is this quest for the pure craftsmanship that can be in photography which will lead us to our next experiment here on Burn…stay tuned…

    cheers, david

  1339. Paul Parker

    mw…
    Well it strikes me as being relevant :))) I never wrote I had anything against any converter in particular, I use what is most handy to me.
    Actually the first image is totally accurate color-wise I´ve got another image I shot in the same light of a complete color card… sort of like a GretagMacbeth ColorChecker, just another make. Of course you are right about the second one it is an aesthetic choice… I don´t know how long you´ve been printing/shooting images but I´m quite sure if a local color lab had presented the first image as a final print 15 years ago I would of thrown it back in disgust. There are 3 very strong color casts…the blacks are off, the middle grey are off and the whites are also pretty off, apart from the fact is the image is as flat as a pancake. The second image is just an attempt at getting away from the digital look…does it work? I don´t know for sure but I feel happier with it… I was trying my best to imitate good old Fuji Reala.
    No it wasn´t me who mentioned Egglestone, but I once saw an expo of his work, it was all printed as Dye Transfers prints pretty amazing.
    In the end I think we are both after the same goal :))
    Back to photography…nice cat image, that pussy cat has some fat whiskers!

  1342. sam harris

    DAH…

    toasting back atcha…

    your probably all booked up, but… a DAH workshop / guest talk at the festival would be a great addition… and would love to get a burn show in there next year…

  1344. Paul Parker

    imants…
    i´ve been searching the fluxus group you sugested…trying to get a grip on it all the information!

  1346. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…SAM

    i think we should try for something next year at that fest….i have no contacts whatsoever, although i am sure Trent would help us out…but yes a Burn show , seminar, whatever could be good…a year goes by fast, so we should think about it soonest if you gents are interested….

    cheers, david

  1347. david alan harvey

    FRANCESCO..

    Carlo Roberti setting it up…i have very few details at the moment….i agreed to do it almost without question as i agree to do everything it Italy !! smiling….i will let you know, or perhaps you will let me know….where are you at the moment amico??

    cheers, david

  1348. marcin luczkowski

    DAVID,

    Yes, yes, do not rush with Rio story. More trips to finish? That’s great! Enjoy the sun and samba. I agree, photography comes after a great time, great life :)) keep standing on the sand dune, it is very important. I just stared checking NG magazine looking for your story, but we can wait for your pictures.
    Maybe I will visit Madrit this year, but it is not sure. I love to see your exhibition, your prints.
    Well, enjoy your trip and sun and girls… here is dark time, grey, cold and hopeless.

  1349. sam harris

    David,

    absolutely interested.

    i am in close communication with the festival director at present, so i’m sure i can help there.
    i will start sowing the seeds…

  1352. francesco lastrucci

    DAVID
    I’m looking forward to know more about it! of course let me know if there is anything you need
    I’m back to florence now, sweet home family, friends and red wine but I should be back to NY in march then go to colombia again to continue my job there (or HK)..i’m just trying to organize everything at the moment.
    by the way..I might be in rio for some commercial work in april..any chance I will see you there?
    it would be one more country to add to our list of encounters ;)
    cheers!

  1353. david alan harvey

    FRANCESCO…

    i could be in Rio in early april..working on a plan right now…the print show will be very small and in Cortona i think..Carlo is trying to organize a photo fest and asked if i would hang this small show, so i agreed…i am sure we will meet in NYC or Rio or Italy or all three…

    cheers, david

  1355. Paul Parker

    David
    I live in Mallorca… Funny I tried my very best to get to your exhibition, I had just come out of hospital and a friend had booked a ticket to Madrid for me. This was all in secret but my wife found out and said no way was I going to travel on crutches with a load stitches in my foot. So the best I could do was follow you on twitter and read an interview with you in “El Pais”.

  1357. mw

    Hey Paul, sorry, I don’t think that last comment came off quite as intended. And I don’t even remember what I intended by the “relevant” comment. If you notice the time stamp, it was pretty late. And it had been a long day. Got up at 5 am, processed photos and wrote until 11 or so then edited audio and wrote until early evening. Then out in society, back late with a head on, and just can’t help myself with the cat joke. Anyway, I always enjoy our conversations and learn quite a bit. No offense is ever intended.

    Actually, a large part of my job for many years did concern color printing, though I’ve forgotten (not blaming weed, probably more to do with too many blows to the head) just about everything I ever knew and technology no doubt made most of the rest irrelevant. But I’ve carried forward an interest in the perceptual nature of color and attempts to manipulate it scientifically. When I started, the monitors were so poor that we barely looked at them, relying entirely on the info palette and accumulated experience seeing the stuff come off the press. So if you ever want to attack my premises for any of these things, I find it very difficult to defend the concept of color accuracy. It’s all in our heads, man. Only the eye dropper really gets it.

    Still, I’m not sure what you mean when you say the raw converted image is color accurate AND has three distinct color casts. I can imagine how that might be so, but it’s not how people typically describe these things, particularly in a natural light photo. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not hung up on color accuracy as an aesthetic, just as a point of reference. To me, that photo looks like some and/or combination of you, the camera, and/or the software having added a boatload of yellow, though maybe it was just a strangely yellow day. If I scale back a big chunk of that yellow, then it looks like what I would expect of color accuracy for that particular scene. Then you can tweak the curve and get some pop, if pop is what you’re after. Flat is not necessarily bad though. It’s just another aesthetic choice.

  1359. Paul Parker

    mw…
    No problem I didn´t take it as an offence, indeed I found it quite funny. I must take everything with a smile today…yesterday afternoon i set off to a local beach trying to get some interesting images, slipped on my crutches and fell flat on my face and fractured my nose. Nothing too bad but never the less one more injury!! :))

    I know what you mean :) I depend on the info palette and eye dropper through out photoshop. The problem is my canon 1ds II always produces color casts even using custom ACR profiles. I personally can only solve these problems in photoshop. Maybe you can solve it with tweaking a few curves in Raw Converter it´s just that I am used to the 3 eyedroppers in levels. But yes you are quite right my images are not totally color accurate because they wouldn´t have these color casts… incidentally a friend of mine says I´m splitting hairs looking for those color problems.
    As you have stated color accuracy is a point of reference a starting point.
    I hope that boatload of yellow has disappeared in the second image?

  1363. panos skoulidas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxcJW6bs5os&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=MLGxdCwVVULXfGZXnyM0WEqbYpPMDeIG2O

    Suicidal Tendencies was formed in 1981 as a hardcore punk band in Venice, California

    There were many rumors of the band members as well as their friends and followers being involved with gangs (especially the Venice White Boyz), with Muir’s trademark blue bandanna and violence at the bands performances as evidence. In their original line-up photo, which can be seen inside their self-titled cassette tape, their drummer Amery Smith is wearing a flipped up hat and under the bill are the markings “V13”, which are initials for an association to the Venice neighborhood (not necessarily Venice 13, although there probably were a handful of V13 members who also were Suicidals). An entire gang sprung up around the group, the Suicidal Cycos (also known as the Suicidals, Suis or Suicidal Boyz), with chapters in Venice, Long Beach, Santa Monica, Oceanside and even a chapter in San Antonio, Texas.

  1366. Akaky

    Paul, have you considered that maybe God just doesnt like you and is therefore messing with your head, as well as your leg and your nose? Don’t say you haven’t been warned, guy.

  1369. Paul Parker

    Akaky…
    Yes I have considered that posibility!!
    But please don´t make laugh again that Tranny comment was painful :)))

  1373. mw

    You mean if it weren’t for bad luck, you’d have no luck a all? Have you considered a career in country music songwriting?

    Seriously though. Very sorry to hear about the broken nose. I like the pic of the kid at the beach. Did you take that before or after the accident?

  1374. david alan harvey

    i just popped in here for a sec to see what was going on and well, i have no idea….you boys are feeling good i guess….i am supposed to be writing a new post, so better get to it….

    cheers, david

  1378. Paul Parker

    mw…
    Albert king :)
    It´s only a hairline fracture :)
    That image was shot in Nov, actually that was my attempt at a Burn single image submission.

  1379. Ross Nolly

    David;

    I probably didn’t explain myself very well! That’s one of the reasons I hardly ever comment on essays; what takes two minutes to explain face to face can lose something in translation in black and white. :-)

    I’ve got no problem whatsoever with preconceived, conceptual pieces. Take Cindy Sherman for example; I like her work and it is about as preconceived as you can get. In a funny way I suppose even Alec Soth (whose work I love), who is documentary in style, but often fringes on the preconceived. I also love short films, fiction, movies, poetry, non-realist painting, dance etc; all often preconceived artworks.

    I still like the essay, I wasn’t rubbishing it. To the contrary actually. I suppose the essay is a depiction of lonesomeness, abandonment and originally I thought they were “stumbled upon” situations. And of course with extra lighting etc.

    The comment left by Martin (about his essay) was “But all the shots took time to set up, you see, mostly using three lights and tired dog-owner and a pack of ham/chewy things”

    For me; knowing it was a set-up situation takes some of the “sympathy” out of the images. Maybe similar to me shooting a set-up situation of street kids using actors.. It could be (if I was good enough to pull it off!) a wonderful evocative fictional portrayal (like a movie). But to me personally; I would feel more sympathy for an actual situation (if I was told that it was a real situation). Even though the preconceived piece could work well too.

    I’m probably still not explaining myself very clearly! Like I said; my reaction probably says more about me than the essay! :-)

  1381. eva

    DAH.. all ok.. boys are all ok (except for one nose, ouch).. and girls are always right.. ‘t was one of the boys saying so.. must be true, huh? ;)

    .. world is a mess.. here’s hoping Egypt will make it..

  1383. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS…thank you for the message…

    “Greece has no choice but to rebuild — and the only way to do it is to roll up our sleeves and start over.”

    hmmm…the good think that we have no choice…
    the bad thing…is that we don’t have any more sleeves to roll…:(
    BUT
    we are fighters…and we got to Move on…
    Viva La Revolucion!!!

    The family is here…EVA…the father knows some Italian
    they are not interested for food ,wine…
    they are “glued” to the TV…
    they are so close to the screen…it’s like they will reach out to touch their people…
    they left behind…their eyes are scanning…through faces,places…
    hmmm…I can only imagine

    P.S …PAUL…don’t worry…you are a BURNIAN…
    “After winter comes the summer. After night comes the dawn. After every storm, there comes clear, open skies.”

  1384. mw

    Hey Paul, sorry to keep carrying on in a conversation only you and I were ever interested in and I suspect you no longer are, but I find this kind of thing fascinating.

    Looking closely at your two photos, I see that you recognized the yellow problem as well. Your solution was to leave the yellow alone and significantly up the cyans and magentas. My inclination was the opposite, to leave the other colors alone and desaturate the yellow. Interesting stuff, for me at least. And I don’t mean to be judgmental, so don’t get me wrong when I note, and this goes way back to the questions about raw development, that clicking auto in photoshop’s curves dialog ups the cyans and magentas, producing a much more saturated AND much better color balanced image, and a dramatic one, but, I would argue, a much less color accurate one.

    If you’re following me this far, perhaps you see what I’m getting at in my rebellion against ACR hegemony?

  1389. Jason_Houge

    David – Thank you much! Lights are a concern What is nice – and maybe not so – The Gallery has large windows and they get a great deal of natural light. hopefully not too strong. I’m printing it all our with and Epson pigment printer and I’ve been testing various papers with the ink to see if they fade – sitting in the window 24/7 for almost two months now and no decernable fadeing…..

    As for PowerHouse – Yes I’m thinking about publishing with them… I really want to present the work best. I’ve done my research and I think for me, right now, they might be the best answer. I was considering using a small print company where I live – they specialize in brochures and such but do print some perfect bound publications for the school…

    Will you be available tomorrow night for a Skype? I’ll be around online after 6:20 Eastern… Otherwise, maybe Tuesday????

  1391. panos skoulidas

    the bad thing…is that we don’t have any more sleeves to roll…:(
    ————————————–
    CIVI DONT DESPAIR…
    yes we do!
    yes we do!
    CHE is NOT dead…

  1392. panos skoulidas

    Greece been destroyed by the ottoman empire, been molested by the orthodox church, been raped by greek corrupted politicians, been fucked by wall street (goldman sachs)…but its an old brave civilization.
    we are doomed to survive..pain, misery yes… france taking advantage ? yes…germany plays a game?
    yes..
    but they dont know who they are messing with…
    big hug and support from my second home…also destroyed and foreclosed…my california is dying…
    but we are NWA…we will resist..
    we SHALL OVERCOME…

    ALL MY LOVE AND SUPPORT TO my GREEK brothers and sisters that are violently getting raped daily by the IMF , german and france politicians….
    AND MY LOVE AND SUPPORT TO OUR EGYPTIANS BROTHERS ….
    AND DO NOT LISTEN TO CNN OR THAT HILARY CLINTON stupid bitch!
    roger thart

  1395. panos skoulidas

    ‘Don’t take our girls …’

    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/01/201112912322207901.html

    Not long after religious nationalists held a rally in Bat Yam under the banner of “Jewish girls for the Jewish people,” a group of rabbis’ wives published a letter urging Jewish women not to date Arab men.

    Jewish-Palestinian couples remain uncommon in Israel. But both the rally and letter point towards the difficulties faced by such couples, even those from liberal backgrounds.

    Rona, a young professional Jewish woman in her early thirties who asked to be identified by a pseudonym, has kept her relationship with a Palestinian man a secret from most of her relatives for almost four years.

    While her parents know and have met Rona’s boyfriend, Rona says that she is at a point where she is “actively lying” to the rest of her family.

    “I don’t know how to articulate how they’d react, “Rona says. “I think that my aunt and uncle know that there is someone … and they definitely know that he’s Arab. But it’s more about my grandmother and her sisters and the older generation. It’s like if [I] were to bring home a mass murderer.”

    She laughs nervously and continues.

    “It just doesn’t happen. It’s like: ‘Bring home somebody who is a total loser, but don’t bring home an Arab.'”

    Rona describes her parents’ political views as “moving more left but kind of traditional,” adding, “my mum always says that she thinks that the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank in 1967 was a mistake and that [Israel] should have returned the territories.”

    Still, Rona did not tell her parents about her relationship right away.

    “There was a period of time I was hiding it for convenience’s sake. I just wanted to enjoy my life and not be harassed.”

    When she did talk to her parents about her boyfriend, who is a non-practicing Muslim, they sidestepped the issue of his race, focusing instead on “cultural differences”.

    “I was like, ‘What are you saying? That he’s going to come home one day and want me to put on a hijab? Do you know what the cultural differences are?'” Rona recalls. “So I took immediate offense to this concept. I thought it was racist from the get go.”

    Her parents also objected to the relationship because “it would be so difficult for us to live here together,” Rona says, due to the widespread discrimination they would face.

    She describes the first time her parents met her boyfriend as “awkward”.

    “I think it was actually their first personal interaction with an Arab, other than [those working in] stores and restaurants. I think it was a very emotional encounter for them. They liked him and my mum said he seemed like an amazing guy.”

    Still, Rona’s mother insisted that she not put herself “in that kind of a situation”.

    Rona says that she has not felt any racism coming from her boyfriend’s family. But, because of the political situation, there are moments when she feels a divide between them.

    She was living with her boyfriend when Operation Cast Lead began in December, 2008. Her boyfriend’s mother, whose sister lives in the Gaza Strip, happened to be visiting when the war began.

    “We were watching the news and they were showing the first strikes, the air attack,” Rona recalls. “His mum was screaming and crying and cursing the army and the Israelis and the Jews and everyone and I was standing there like ‘I don’t know what to do.’ On the one hand, I wanted to show her that I care. On the other, does she now want an Israeli Jew to put her arm around her? But I did.”

    History of mixed marriages

    Although Israel’s religious nationalists have only recently spoken against such relationships, they are far from new. Jews and Arabs have been falling in love in Palestine for as long as both have been there.
    Iris Agmon, a professor in Ben Gurion University’s department of Middle East studies, says: “In the Ottoman sharia court records one can find women whose nicknames hint to the fact that they are converted Muslims.” And some of these women were probably Jewish.

    After Ottoman rule ended, the British mandate also saw such couples. Deborah Bernstein, a professor in the University of Haifa’s department of sociology and anthropology, says that although there is no “systematic documentation or even discussion of the subject … it is clear that such a phenomena did exist”. She found family stories of these couples while researching her Hebrew-language book about women in mandatory Tel Aviv.

    Bernstein also discovered “archival welfare documents,” pointing to such relationships. “For example, [one referred to] a [Jewish] woman leaving her husband and children and going to live with an Arab man.”

    In most cases, Bernstein says, Jewish women converted to Islam before marrying their Arab partner. She believes that a majority of these couples left Israel when it was established in 1948.

    Bernstein did not come across any examples of Jewish men marrying Christian Arab or Muslim Arab women.

    Bernstein adds that the Jewish community was “very strongly opposed” to “mixed marriages”.

    “This was the case in [Jewish immigrants’] countries of origin,” Bernstein says, explaining that the opposition to mixed marriages took on an “additional national element” in Israel.

    But, sometimes, protests against such relationships ran the other way – leaving a lasting impact on generations to come.

    The Palestinian grandson of such a marriage lives in a neighbouring Arab country. According to Jewish religious law, he is not Jewish. While, technically, many of his cousins are Jewish, they do not know it – their grandmother’s conversion is a strictly-guarded secret, shared with only a few members of the family.

    Segregation

    Because it remains an extremely sensitive issue for both communities, a number of Jewish-Palestinian couples declined my requests for interviews. Several are so concerned about family reactions, they have not told their parents about their Jewish or Arab partner.

    But Alex and Salma are lucky. Alex is the son of Jewish Israeli leftists. Salma is a young Palestinian woman whose Communist parents raised her and her four sisters with only a nod to their Christian roots. Because their families are so progressive, Alex says, their relationship is “relatively simple”.

    “The first song I learned to sing was shir l’shalom [song for peace]. We’ve gone to demonstrations since I was a toddler. So I was always on the left,” he explains, “but I never knew any Palestinians.”

    Alex’s comment points to the deep divisions in Israeli society that make Jewish-Palestinian relationships so unlikely.

    “[Society] is built in a way that doesn’t help relationships,” Salma says. “Everything is segregated. The educational systems are separated … People don’t meet. And if they do meet, they meet under unusual circumstances, like at a demonstration.”

    Even though both Alex and Salma grew up in liberal homes, the two were no exception – it was activism that brought them together.

    And it helps keep them together. Most of their friends hold similar political views, providing a buffer from the rest of Israeli society.

    “You know, we sort of chose our lives,” Salma says. “I can’t be friends with racist people so it’s easy to avoid. But I think if we would have gone out to more parties we would have faced more problems.”

    Still, things are only “relatively simple”.

    Alex recalls running into a friend from school who made a racist and obscene remark about his relationship with Salma. And one of Salma’s closest childhood friends stopped speaking to her when she joined a Jewish-Arab group that advocates for a bi-national solution to the conflict.

    “I think it comes out more than that,” Alex adds.

    Salma nods and begins to explain: “I have one sister who got married last summer. She knows Alex and his family very well, so she wanted to invite [them] …”

    She pauses and, a bit like an old married couple, Alex picks up the thread and continues: “And the oldest sister says, ‘What are you going to invite all of your Zionist friends?'”

    There is a flicker of hurt on Alex’s face as he remembers. “Now, this comes out of nowhere. I refused [mandatory military service],” Alex says. “I’m definitely not a Zionist. I refused and my parents aren’t Zionists.”

    Alex emphasises that he maintains a warm relationship with Salma’s oldest sister and that her remark came during an emotional argument. But, Alex says, the incident pointed to something that “can’t be completely erased … that the relationship can’t be normalised. It always has to be politically justified.”

    What do such tensions say about Israeli society?

    “Nothing good,” Alex answers.

    The couple is also concerned about the recent outbreak of open racism in Israel.

    “I think the hatred is becoming more and more explicit,” Salma says, pointing to the rally in Bat Yam and the rabbis’ wives’ letter as two examples. “It’s ‘don’t take our girls’ ….”

  1398. a civilian-mass audience

    GORDON,
    I see your pictures…oime
    MARTHA is a “confident power”…and I bet she helped you out with the lighting…
    cause she exuberates light …!!!

    You will visit your Greek house…and we will have mousaka,souvlakia,gyro,xorta,wine
    and ouzo but with moderation…cause we have to take care our liver
    and the youngsters…

    Oh,well…Viva for now…
    shhh…my new Egyptian friends …don’t approve…:)))

    I love you ALLLLL…can someone turn off the lights…?:)

  1403. eva

    Panos.. no, please, no ‘liberating’.. change, to be effective, has to come from within..

    Civi.. can’t even imagine how difficult it must be for them.. and you..

  1409. Paul Parker

    mw…

    Yes I find photography in general fascinating as long as it isn´t about camera makes… well you know the usual gear-head crap…:)So let´s keep on. I´m learning, you´ve mentioned you are learning and perhaps someone else on Burn is also soaking up info… so great!
    The odd things is I never clicked on the Auto button in curves or levels, I used the eyedropper tool after selecting certain problems within the image. So perhaps even when you are not working in auto mode photoshop still “takes over”… I tried your way by bringing down the yellow saturation and you are right, it is less dramatic and just as correct. Now that is one more point I´ve learnt. Brilliant :)
    Yes I´m beginning to see your “Magic Bullet” conspiracy theories…
    I´ve had an idea we could both try out…would you be interested in exchanging Raw Files and just try and see where it finally leads us? BTW this goes for anyone else round here OK…Not only correcting color but also the aesthetic/creative interpretation could be fascinating.
    Anyway for the moment take a look at this… Sort of my digital workflow…
    http://adesirecalledcamera.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/mw-and-all-of-burn/

  1410. Akaky

    “F**k the Dems?”

    Panos, I would never say such a thing. I think it a lot, but I would never say it out loud. It would be uncivil.

  1411. Mike R

    David, you asked me to remind you about asking Magnum London for details of the new “Contacts” book and to possibly arrange for a teaser here on Burn?

    Cheers,

    Mike.

  1412. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…you can only imagine…
    they checked your cats…they loved them…
    it’s a start…

    “You only have power over people so long as you don’t take everything away from them. But when you’ve robbed a man of everything, he’s no longer in your power – he’s free again.”
    Aleksander Solzhenitsyn

    Freedom…free dum

    I am not gonna sing today…

  1416. a civilian-mass audience

    hmmm…whatever happens in US …doesn’t stay in USA…

    PANOS,I better enjoy my chickens now…
    cause you never know…

    P.S…BTW…i better hide them from the Greeks…cause according to the new austerity measures…
    I will be heavily taxed…oime

  1417. a civilian-mass audience

    chickens,rabbits…wines,olives…
    I knew I am rich…but not That rich…

    VIVA…VIVA…where are my BURNIAN ladies…I want to drink tonight…!!!

  1418. Jason_Houge

    Panos, Looking at that link, there’s a link to more info about the bill right at the beginning of the article and here: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2749
    It states that the bill did not pass – it was originally presented in 2009, it passed the house but then died… but who knows if something like it would come back…

    The people of the US would be STUPID to let big companies like Monsanto and the government dictate what is healthy.

  1421. panos skoulidas

    TO ALL…PLEASE SUPPORT THE ARTIST…just published a new blurb book with over 200 new/never published before venice work/latest work ..complimented with POETRY FROM AN AMAZING POET (JASON F.WALL)
    THANK U ALL FOR THE SUPPORT…
    THE NAME OF THE BOOK IS IN GREEK (are the words engraved on JIM MORRISON’S GRAVE)

    ” ΚΑΤΑ ΤΟΝ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΕΑΥΤΟΥ ” That translates:

    , literally meaning “according to his own daimōn” and usually interpreted as “true to his own spirit

    http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/1956648

  1422. michael kircher

    PANOS…

    I don’t know where I’ve been. Just came from blurb and see you’ve got 3 freakin books! Awesome! Scanned through them all and (hope you don’t mind) I’m going for your first Venice (for now!). And I am totally sending it to you for a very Panos Skoulidas personal inscription! Dig?

    Cheers, man. Good stuff!

  1423. Herve

    “You only have power over people so long as you don’t take everything away from them. But when you’ve robbed a man of everything, he’s no longer in your power – he’s free again.”
    Aleksander Solzhenitsyn
    ————-

    Say that to the burmese!

  1426. eva

    Panos… did we not say any more photobooks???

    You’ll be the 10th Burnian I buy a book of (not counting the Harveys, Nachtweys, Webbs etc. ..I mean those I wouldn’t have known without Burn most likely).. husband told me yesterday I should get a new pair of shoes.. hmm.. I guess I will get a book instead ;)

  1427. mw

    Paul, regarding the auto button, I found it handy in a production environment. Of course it didn’t always work, but if it did, it saved quite a bit of time. With my own stuff, I occasionally look at it just to kind of see what Adobe thinks the picture should look like, but I do it less and less since at this late date I pretty much already know. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Adobe or Canon are evil or that they are engaged in any kind of conspiracy beyond making money by helping people take pleasing photographs. I just see that in order to do that they take a bit more control of the process than I prefer to cede. As some guy named Joe once sang:

    “They said we’d be artistically free
    When we signed that bit of paper
    They meant let’s make a lotsa mon-ee
    An’ worry about it later

    Ooh ooh ooh I’ll never understand
    Ooh ooh ooh complete control – lemme see your other hand!”

    I like what you did with the tree in the link about your workflow. I can’t get into too much of a back and forth due to the overwhelming number of to-do’s on my list, of which processing photos is a big part, but if you want to make a file available through ftp, I’d be happy to play around with it and comment.

  1428. Paul Parker

    Panos!!

    You´ve just sold another book!
    Here is quote by Jim Marshall on Jim Morrison…

    “I don´t think I ever spoke three words to Morrison. We were on the side of the stage and I was just shooting with just one frame left on the roll, and Jim said,
    “Hey Marshall, you want a photo?” and looked right into the camera.
    He was one of those guys in his own space. I never got close to him. My impression of Morrison was that he was like C.S. Lewis, spiritual without being religious.”

    “That crazy feeling in America when the sun is hot on the streets…”
    BTW Jack Kerouac really wrote two introductions for “The Americans”…
    Robert Frank´s and Panos Skoulidas…

  1429. Mike R

    Pano, Jason, I heard a BBC4 radio programme some time ago that stated that seeds have to be registered in a seed database before they can be sold. The cost of registration is expensive so, generally, it is only food manufacturers which register seeds, and the ones they register are those easy to harvest i.e. beans that don’t grow too high and are thus easy to mechanically harvest. The emphasis is on mechanical harvesting, not taste etc. All of this means that food bio-divestity is threatened.

    Also mentioned was a genetically modified seed that was “sterile” i.e. it could be planted once and would produce a crop but the seeds from the crop would not produce a crop next year – the farmer had to go back to the seed manufacturer and buy more seed. The result would be food production in the hands of a corporation wanting to make a profit. Doesn’t sound a good idea to me; in fact it sounds between scary and nightmare. I think we have discussed this before but it bears repeating.

    I recently heard (BBC Radio 4 again) that a genetically modified potato is being grown solely to produce a product used in paper whitening.

    DAH, I know, you’re busy, you can’t say no (laughing) but you did ask me to remind you to check the details of the new Magnum “Contacts” book and see if we at Burn could have a teaser. No more reminders, David. I promise.

    Mike.

  1431. Paul Parker

    mw…

    Now that you are at peace with flash is this flash I fired correct?…
    http://adesirecalledcamera.wordpress.com/2011/02/01/hold-on-a-sec-batman-while-i-finish-my-homework/

    OK back to colours :)I have been known to use the auto button when something color-wise is giving me hell… just in case. That guy named Joe is blocked in Spain, why? Anyway I´m not much of a fan of the Clash :)!
    I´m not sure how to use ftp haven´t used since I downloaded profiles for Imageprint rip…but we could also do it by Skype I´ve sent a couple of files.
    Well the tree work flow! Last night Eva made me see the light and I realised I had overdone it and I think it was perhaps a little too processed. I would be interested to see your interpretation of one of my Raw files.

  1432. mw

    Well, I can’t speak to correct. My flash issues, same as raw developing, are about control. I just want to be able to make the damned technology do what I want. Having the wisdom to want to make it do something interesting is another matter.

    Sure, I’ll Skype. I’m mweb202. Forget to turn it on most of the time, but I’ll try to make more of an effort in the evening, which is pretty late night for you.

  1433. david alan harvey

    we are getting Laura El Tantawy to shoot something special in Egypt for Burn…she is on a plane later today…she is Egyptian with family in Cairo , so this should give us an interesting vision…please go back and look at her previous work here on Burn or to http://www.lauraeltantawy.com

    we cannot afford to send photographers all over the world…however, from time to time if one of our Burn photographers just happens to have a real connection with world events, we will publish them here…Panos covered the riots in Athens for us last year as some of you remember….

  1435. david alan harvey

    PANOS..

    my oh my, now i think this is your third Venice blurb book…right? anyway, there is still the FINAL book to come i think..by the way, i love these new pictures…

    i wish i had known you were getting ready to do this…mighta been able to get you a deal….we are working on a relationship with Blurb for the future…for example, i think our Mississippi workshop coming up with have our book from this week of work JUKE to be published and supported by Blurb…my whole thing with workshops now is to make minimal the final slide show and party and to put our major effort into making serious books out of serious workshops…seems to make sense…anyway JUKE will be cool for sure…at least i hope, i think…

    cheers, david

  1440. panos skoulidas

    Paul, Ross, MichaelK, Eva, civi, david… ALL
    thank you again for supporting the new blurb book
    i just created..all i hope to get yall “back in there…in that little pirate corner called “venice”
    for one last time
    with around 200 fresh never published before photos from venice beach all shot out in an eight month period..
    4 months prior to that “greek adventure” and 4 months this past fall …blah blah…

    The STORY is that i got an email from a friend of mine couple months ago!..he sent me 5 poems…
    And i said , i wanna “dress” them with photos..
    the NAME of the POET friend of mine , that WROTE THE 5 POEMS…’
    and got inspired..

    the poet is JASON F. WALL…
    paradox is that Jason is very spiritual, believes in Jesus, etc…
    he has his own religion / philosophical blog etc.
    and me? im exactly the opposite , right?
    So that was the CHALLENGE… try to marry raw venice with Jesus?
    how do u relate those two “worlds”?
    can u? can i ?
    thats why and what this book all about!
    link again:
    http://www.blurb.com/my/book/detail/1956648#store-price

    big hug

  1441. Framers Intent

    I’ve just posted the first public outline of the exhibitions I’ve been working on for Look11. Tiring work these last few months, but fun and worthy, we have some great folk lined up and it will be a visual feast. All the photographers have been delightful to work with, and I’m doing it for them. I’m working voluntary on this, because the opportunity was too good to be missed. Anyway, CIVI gets a mention. You can check it out in full here – http://www.blipfoto.com/view.php?id=946958&month=2&year=2011 If you’re able to come, please do, it would be a pleasure to see you there.

    And IMANTS, I’m slihgtly less anonymous now ;-)

  1444. Gordon Lafleur

    Just picked up an original 1966 Yashica Electro 35 at my local thrift shop for 9 bucks. Seems to be working fine. Weren’t one of you film burners looking for one?

  1445. Justin Smith

    Gordon, sweet find! I have a GS, GSN, and GTN: two having “pad of death” problems, and one with general electrical problems. I keep meaning to have a go at fixing them…

  1451. Ross Nolly

    “Must pick and choose. Otherwise nothing happens”

    Hmmm… A sort of paralysis of ideas? I’ve got so many ideas going through my head at the moment that it’s kinda crazy. Have decided that instead of analysing them to death (as I’m wont to do) I’ll just go with what “feels” right.

    I had one idea that I thought might have legs; turned out those legs couldn’t take me very far… Was thinking too commercial, what others might like; not what felt right to me… What a perfectly timed Twitter post! :-)

  1455. Gordon Lafleur

    Panos,all

    I like blurb, but my favourite print on demand guys are mypublisher

    http://www.mypublisher.com/products/deluxe

    I especially love the “deluxe” 11.5×15″ large format book. Sooo much more impressive than the smaller format ones. I believe most of these companies use the same HP offset on demand printers, so the quality about the same (good but not awesome in either case from what I’ve seen from both blurb and mypublisher)
    Anyway, there is a 2 for the price of 1 special for new customers at the moment, check it out. Get the dust jacket option.

  1456. a civilian-mass audience

    Where do I start…i have only few minutes to BURN

    PANOS…”ΚΑΤΑ ΤΟΝ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΕΑΥΤΟΥ”…απεταξάμην
    surprised?…no
    mesmerized?…yes
    PANOS,PAULT,THODORIS…all you my BURNIANS…I am the proudest Civilian.
    THANK YOU

    I said it before…the Universe is working…when you Believe!!!
    …I have to admit…no books in my cart yet BUT I am an optimist…
    and I BELIEVE !!!

  1457. a civilian-mass audience

    FRAMERS…
    drink for me…LOOK1…LOOK3…LOOK11…
    I will be there…
    and you LOOK like a true BURNIAN !!!

    Drink to your visions…I am next to You…:)))

  1458. a civilian-mass audience

    I have to update my Birthday List…

    KATHARINA,CHRISTINAF…my girls!

    BRYAN…yeap,BRYAN HARVEY…my boy!

    CHARLESP…my homie!

    GLENN…my friend!

    MR.VINK…aha,my man!

    BOUBOULINA…my chicken!

    I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLL…Happy BURN day!

  1459. a civilian-mass audience

    and to LAURA…to our Egyptian Queen…

    may the spirits of strength…be with You…
    Be safe!

  1460. a civilian-mass audience

    …EVA you might have to reconsider…
    Italian shoes…amazing:)))

    … Aish baladi,kofta, lamb kebabs and koushari…
    because of my new friends…
    new ideas on your civilian’s table…
    I drink ouzo…they drink mint tea

    VIVA to ALL of YOU…out there
    I will be Back

  1463. Framers Intent

    PAUL,
    I thank you most kindly and graciously.

    GORDON,
    Stumbling in from a late jazz spot, it took me more than a minute to understand the reference there to failures and minis! Realising the back-link to Paul’s post was a great laugh and a much needed piercing of the occasional existential “why am I here?!?” musings that sometimes accompany the late night about to crash drunken moments. I thank you most highly for that. Tonight, I needed it. Was a good night, just one that raised some questions near it’s end. Glad to be going to sleep with a smile instead – I’ll deal with those Q’s in the AM. And I thank you for the smile taking over my mood. Appreciated.

  1464. Framers Intent

    CIVI,
    Uh….my birthday is coming up too, mate. You busy end of March? Say the 27th? I hear it’s a weekend…
    Good to hear ya doing good hon, will be in touch over Format and Look.

  1470. david alan harvey

    JASON…

    i have spoken with the Emphasis leaders and options are open… Kickstarter does basically the same thing and i am not sure which one more effective…..i do think the so called “crowd funding” is a good idea albeit controversial in some circles……actually , it is exactly how Burn itself is already funded…simply from kind donations….we might work with Kickstarter or Emphasis or we are looking into our own version of it..we already have some major photographers wanting to either publish here on Burn or possibly have us publish their books…we are looking at all of this….i think the issue for us is whether or not we want to get into the book publishing biz or not or exactly how far to we want to take Burn in general …the issue for us is always quite simple…our Burn time vs our time for our own work…….in any case, i have re-oriented my workshops so that a book is the result rather than the primary emphasis on the final slide show…and we can go back and retroactively make a book out of your class work for example…thinking, thinking…

    cheers, david

  1471. Ross Nolly

    “have some major photographers wanting to either publish here on Burn possible have us publish their books”

    If you decided to publish; would it be better to work as a limited edition publisher? Limited one-offs at a typical “limited edition” price. That way you are working at the top end of the market providing a value added product.

    Also the logistics of distribution may be easier because you have a smaller number of items to ship? Mostly internet sales from a Burn page, and sent from one (or maybe two, US and Europe) central address. People are so used to buying books online that clicking a Paypal link is no major turn-off.

    Maybe it’s a way to provide a steady income for Burn without being tied down to being an actual full-on publisher.

    I’m just thinking out loud here, i could (and probably am!) way off track … :-)

  1472. david alan harvey

    EVA..

    i think Laura’s family is a bit upset that she is going to put herself in harms way, but she is …and we will hot hear from Laura for a week or so since the net is cut off…so hopefully she can get out in a week or ten days and give us some interesting imagery and text…Laura is very alert and very smart ..she will be fine imo….i told her to forget the obvious…shouting protester pictures fade quickly…she will go for nuance, texture, deeper meanings for the unrest… and hopefully Mubarek will resign in the next few days and the mood will swing wildly…of course, who replaces Mubarek will be very interesting…i think Egypt will be on our minds for awhile now…

    cheers, david

  1473. david alan harvey

    ROSS..

    well, that is exactly the way we are thinking and certainly because of the success of the limited edition Burn 01…if Burn became a publisher beyond what we already do, then yes Ross i am sure we would be in the limited edition only business…we have the free internet Burn for reaching out to everyone of course, so i absolutely do not want to be nor am i elitist…however, i just love personally either one of a kind items or limited items….the two concepts are obviously not mutually exclusive….we published for free for public consumption all of the essays on Burn that were later offered in a limited edition book for those who so chose that format…i imagine maybe maybe there are some things we could print and simply have an open edition most likely on demand..not really sure ….in any case, i welcome all thoughts on this from you or from anyone here on Burn…

    cheers, david

  1474. eva

    David…

    I think it boils down to what resources (both human and financial) you have.. this will be the limit.. plus putting quality into the equation.. possibilities are nearly endless.. as you wrote earlier, you gotta pick and choose, or nothing will happen..

  1475. sam harris

    DAH…

    on the subject of books and Burn, one thought that has crossed my mind a few times is that as well as the possibility of Burn publishing ltd edition books as you’ve mentioned above, to also endorse some photographer’s self publications – a sort of library of approved editions – perhaps along-side (internet Burn) published essays… (then going into a side menu).

    cheers
    Sam

  1476. eva

    Panos.. Civi.. I’ve tried with shoes, but: reading the brand and size becomes boring very quickly, plus haven’t found a way to skim through them.. and the smell.. not the same either ;)

  1479. panos skoulidas

    Egypt protesters use voice tweets

    Google and Twitter have launched a service which circumvents the ban on net services in Egypt

    The so-called speak-to-tweet system allows people caught up in the unrest to post messages without any need to use an internet connection.

    The service, which is already live, allows people to dial an international telephone number and leave a voicemail message.

    The message is then sent out as a tweet with the hashtag #egypt.

    People can listen to messages by dialling the same phone numbers (+16504194196 , +390662207294, +97316199855) or going to a special Twitter page.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12332850

  1485. a civilian-mass audience

    Broken English,broken lifes,broken spirits…
    PANOS,what do i tell to my friends…?
    silence…
    I love silence…But not this kind…

    to ALL my AUSSIES…cyclone is coming over
    and to my BURNIANS under winter storm attack…you know what to do…
    find a shelter and play possum…

    hmmm…it will be ok…I BELIEVE!!!

  1486. Framers Intent

    PAUL,
    That’s just my ninja confusion jitsu on display! ;-)

    And we have now got Tom Wood confirmed as one of the photogs in our exhibitoin. This guy is just phenomenal. His book, Looking For Love, and also All Zones Off Peak, just fantastic. Mind blowing. Tough thinker and interlocuter, but I enjoyed the challenge of getting him on board. Just waiting on word from Majoli to have the full roster now, so stoked to be able to rep this stuff. Phone buzzing all day from news interest, been crazy, but crazy good. Exhuasted now, tho. Gotta do a bit more work, then I’ll be back to check out the latest submissions here that I’ve not been able to spend proper time with. Keep on with that, it’s nice, and an inspiration to me on all fronts.

  1488. a civilian-mass audience

    FRAMERS…go FRAMERS…
    and be back!

    EVA…yeap,LAURA be careful…
    my friends are not receiving …good news…hmmm

    night is here…but we can’t sleep…
    our eyes wide open…BURNING and waiting
    …we are LOOKing for clues…

    Goodnight MY BURNIANS…
    I LOVE you ALL!

  1490. eva

    Yasi blows away everything in Queensland.. and here some guys were arrested for making weed-grappa.. tonights news..

  1492. david alan harvey

    pictures just coming in from Laura El Tantawy in Cairo…you may know Laura from essays here…she is a photojournalist living in London and now shooting exclusively for Burn in her native Cairo…her short first hours on the ground report coming soonest…stay tuned..

  1494. Paul Parker

    Well after seeing Everybody Street and Bruce Davidson walking round NY with Canon 1v I have finally run out of excuses for not using that magnificent camera I´ve owned for years. It was brand new when I exchanged a Leica M 135mm lens with a friend of mine, he also found the camera somewhat large. For those who have never held a 1V or 1VHS it is a big, big camera, highly reliable and extremely fast but so, so big! I think it has never had more than 30 rolls of film through it. I wonder if Bruce Davidson uses it because of eye sight problems…

  1495. Paul Parker

    Eva…
    Now that is what I call patience!
    At last my new Sally Mann book has arrived, going down to the local post office tomorrow to pick it up. Ordered it on Dec 4 got lost in post and Amazon sent me another straight away!

  1497. Imants

    FLANAGAN AND ALLEN RUN RABBIT RUN LYRICS

    On the farm, ev’ry Friday
    On the farm, it’s rabbit pie day
    So ev’ry Friday that ever comes along
    I get up early and sing this little song…

    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run
    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run
    Bang, bang, bang, bang! goes the farmer’s gun
    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run, run

    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run
    Don’t give the farmer his fun, fun, fun
    He’ll get by without his rabbit pie
    So run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run

    (Instrumental)

    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run
    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run
    Bang, bang, bang, bang! goes the farmer’s gun
    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run, run

    Run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run
    Don’t give the farmer his fun, fun, fun
    He’ll get by without his rabbit pie
    So run, rabbit, run, rabbit, run, run, run

    Flanagan And Allen Run Rabbit Run lyrics are property and copyright of it’s owners. Lyrics are provided for educational purposes only.

  1498. Paul Parker

    “forget the obvious… go for nuance, texture, deeper meanings…”
    Well I suspect that is “rare air”, where the touch of brilliance exists… what Burn is all about.

  1499. bob black

    Eva/Paul:

    if it’s the NEW SALLY MANN book (the monograph from her exhibition in VA) called ‘The flesh and the spirit’:

    IT IS MAGNIFICENT!…

    i bought it 3 weeks ago…and it is magnificent…as was the show……have every book by sally…and well…..someday, i’ll write about her work here….i too once before with regard to the ‘face’ photos of in Bones/Time, but will write properly another time…

    …when the time is right ;)))

    hoping that is the book y’all have gotten :))

    hugs
    b

  1500. Paul Parker

    Bob…
    Yes ‘The flesh and the spirit’ that´s it! Meant to be my Christmas present, can´t wait! Missed the postman by seconds, I can fly everywhere on crutches except downstairs! I just hope her book won´t inspire me to pull out my 8×10 as usual, I can do without the hassle!

  1502. a civilian-mass audience

    “To carry his load without resting, not to be bothered by heat or cold and always be content: these three things we can learn from a donkey”
    Indian Proverb

    “If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.”
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    DUM SPIRO,SPERO

    Peace

  1503. a civilian-mass audience

    Happy Rabbits to All…
    my rabbits are safe…at least for now…:)))

    New year’s resolution…or whatever you want…
    “Fear is a habit; so is self-pity, defeat, anxiety, despair, hopelessness and resignation. You can eliminate all of these negative habits with two simple resolves: I can!! and I will!!”

    Antele, keep rolling…altogether

  1505. a civilian-mass audience

    when everyone is trying to get out…you photographers are trying to get in…

    now, that I had a long talk with my Egyptian friends…I am scared…
    hmmm…
    MR.HARVEY,BURNIANS…shall we withdraw …our troops(LAURA)…?
    my civilian instinct just kicked in…

  1506. a civilian-mass audience

    “The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men”
    Plato

    “The images tell a powerful story and challenge our emotions and our thinking. The role of the photojournalist continues to play a crucial part in documenting the events of history…”
    ok…Resist…tell it like it is…
    cause
    “Without publicity there can be no public support, and without public support every nation must decay.”
    Benjamin Disraeli

  1508. eva

    Civi.. there is a reason why photographers are a target in Egypt .. if nobody knows, do things really happen? Does the tree make noise when it falls, if nobody hears?..

    Laura has family there, she won’t listen anyway.. I know I would not..she must do the right thing for her..

  1511. Paul P

    Eva…
    Thanks for the interview. Here´s an excerpt from another…
    “I don’t believe in photography as art or a job or anything. I think of photography as a language and I think a language should be used to speak, to say what you have to say. So the only things I have to say about my life and what I know about the world, is the way I see it. So, it’s not about photography … I think people should just use photography to say things and not just photography for the sake of photography … the world is full of talented photographers. The problem is just so many of them just don’t know what to say, they think life is one thing and photography is another but they don’t realise that photography is just a way to reflect what you are.” Antoine D´Agata

  1513. eva

    Paul.. glad I did pick up that link to the interview.. that was what I was searching, to read/hear to gain a better understanding.. the film from some days back did explain only a part, and not sure how much of it was D’Agata’s part.. and I pretty much agree with what he says in your comment above..

  1514. Paul

    Eva…

    I also agree with the excerpt, pretty much what art in general should always be about…just a better way of explaining oneself.

  1516. mw

    Michael, no offense intended. Kind of thing that might illicit a small chuckle over a beer and any misunderstanding would be taken care of by the next sip.

  1518. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS,
    o Papakonstantinou from Kathimerini was beaten and was stabbed in his leg kai o Moutafis …you might know him…freelance photographer…

    Well, i have good news…two more from the Egyptian family arrived safely …in your civilian’s house…
    it’s 4a.m here in grecolandia…the room is full of smoke…I am making more tea …some coffee for me

    i will be right back

  1519. a civilian-mass audience

    oime…I have bad news too…when the next day will arrive…
    we don’t know …what it might be

    The Pandora’s Box is now Open…

    “Hope is the only good god remaining among mankind;
    the others have left and gone to Olympus.
    Trust, a mighty god has gone, Restraint has gone from men,
    and the Graces, my friend, have abandoned the earth.
    Men’s judicial oaths are no longer to be trusted, nor does anyone
    revere the immortal gods; the race of pious men has perished and
    men no longer recognize the rules of conduct or acts of piety…”
    Theognis 6th century BC poet

  1520. a civilian-mass audience

    LAURA,

    may the spirits of strength be with you…
    my friends are praying for your safety …and for all the Egyptian people
    they are talking about the museums…
    the museums are in danger…
    hmmm…

    I used to love domino…not anymore

  1521. david alan harvey

    PAUL..EVA

    yes, the d’Agata quote about photography as a language is my mantra as well…i think before either one of you arrived on the scene here at Burn, we had many a discussion on photography as language….an new one , but a language nevertheless…if everyone can speak it reasonably well, as in our verbal languages for example, then that will only bring to the top even more those who speak it eloquently, can write a novel, pen a poem , or author a screen play…we are in early stages of this evolution…

    cheers, david

  1522. eva

    David..

    yes.. AND it is much more universal than spoken or written language.. I know you native English speakers might feel this ‘problem’ much less.. but if I feel I need to look up every other word in a dictionary to see if I get the correct translation of what I want to say or what is said to me, I don’t feel the need to do this with pictures.. no matter what the spoken language is behind a picture, it simply talks on a different level, easier to feel and understand.. more immediate and gut levelled..

    Nuances are still there, but free for intepretation..

    About D’Agata.. some days back during your workshop in NY we had a bit of a discussion on here about his work.. and him.. besides his pictures there was much about him told by others.. what I was missing was something by himself, so I’m glad I foud that interview in 1000wordsmag linked above..

  1524. Imants

    “no matter what the spoken language is behind a picture, it simply talks on a different level, easier to feel and understand..” but more open to interpretation to suit the individual’s needs thus the photograph is open to widespread misinterpretation.

    David photography as language is pretty mature within the arts

  1525. eva

    Well, Imants, in art I do not care one bit about the interpretation or the meaning the artist wants to give to her/his work.. I allow myself freedom..

    Narrow/tight.. ack, now which one is the correct term to translate ‘stretto’..photojournalistic work is different, but then we’re not talking about art anymore.

  1526. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    i am sorry i missed that discussion on d’Agata…certainly he is one of my favorites…i have appreciation for many photographers of course …but much of d’Agata is truly language well spoken albeit in this case from the voice of an oftentimes tortured man…

    IMANTS

    i am not sure how we can know how mature photography is…yes, in the arts perhaps a certain maturity…but i think what we were talking about was as a language for all…the tech advances have put a camera in the hands of everyone at all times…this is something talked about all the time but rarely comprehended…this image capturing machine with everyone all the time…

    changes the nature of it for the masses and for the artists perhaps as well…but man seems to have a couple of needs that are being matched by technology advances..the incredible need to sit by the campfire and tell and listen to stories etc…hence the tidal wave of social networking…and surprise surprise the incredible need to capture what goes on around us…this is something to really really think about..

    yes, man has always drawn pictures depicting life as it is or life as it is fantasized..but i doubt if everyone was doing cave paintings…i do not think cave painting was a universal language spoken by the masses…yet, photography is…i think it is way too early in the game to imagine how this will shake down…we have no idea in 500 years what will be appreciated in the art world and what will not…

    we have our assumptions, but they are only assumptions based on past experience and there is nothing going on today that resembles even slightly what went on before in terms of the universality of it…of course the remnants of 25,000 yrs ago might be grossly interpreted as well…looking back is probably not that much more a body of knowledge than looking forward…certainly not as empirical as one might imagine…

    i mean really, even on a day to day basis as we see history interpreted before our very eyes, we can see that whomever is standing on the hilltop will have the final word, but the “truth” will always be up for grabs…it is in this search of course that art comes….in any case, just when you think you have seen it all, something else shows up…the beauty of discovery…there is no dead end for discovery even when we look at the same space over and over..

    “the photograph is open to widespread mis-interpretation”….just take off the “mis” and i think a bit more accurate…

    cheers, david

  1527. Paul

    David…
    Yes you missed an intense discussion on D´Agata… Eva and I commented privately how we both missed Imant´s and your view, as I suppose you obviously know him personally.

  1528. Imants

    Sure David but that is because you are taking photography as the central core of activity once we start moving away from that premise the role of the image as language changes dramatically. But alas we are on a photographic orientated site………

  1531. david alan harvey

    PAUL..

    yes, i know and like d’Agata….i published a photo of him and a story back on Road Trips..i will probably not see him until June, but can do another interview, story whatever…what precipitated a discussion on d’Agata?

    IMANTS..

    well i might be entering this comment right now on a photography oriented site, but i can assure you my life does not revolve around photography as the primary focus of my attention or being…yes, i am a photographer using my camera as a tool for speaking, but i am not thinking at all about “photography” during 99% of my day if at all…just like i am not thinking about “writing” as i write this sentence…our discussion under Laura’s essay is about Egypt not about photography….that is what i thought was the whole point of this chat..that photography as language takes us away from photography as photography…instinctive…meshing with the everyday and the ordinary…not something that happens, but something that is…..

    cheers, david

  1533. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    ahhh, Facebook…now THERE is another discussion…Facebook and the cell phone camera are the single most interesting things to think about…again, human nature is human nature…so nothing can be different about US…we have not been re-wired…but these “tools” do make very obvious apparent changes in human behavior..or do they?

    Imants, i did not think you were finger pointing..not at all…just enjoying the repartee….

    cheers, david

  1534. bob black

    david/eva/paul:

    yes, that was a heated chat about Antoine….the nuts/bolts: some seemed offended by the documentary Cambodia Room: Situations and proceeded to not only condemn his work, but him personally….you can imagine my reaction ;))….i wrote, too, many posts, including one long, late night, wine-fueled post about judging others personally and revealed alot of personal information about my own life/parents etc….as an attempt to combat the ugly language used by a few toward antoine…anyway, it was wearying…but worth the discussion i guess…but made for some compelling reading, around…

    PHOTOGRAPHY IS A LANGUAGE….it literally means writing with light, but more importantly is a means of expressing/articulating/obfuscating the world around…and language, as wittgenstein and everyone after him articulated, is simply a code of symbols we use to describe/interpret/signify the world and it’s architecture…

    and while it is UNIVERSAL (images) it certainly can be as misunderstood as any spoken one :)))…and that, for all its frustrations, is its remarkable beauty…alas…..:)))

  1535. Paul

    David…
    Well Panos asked Eva for a link to “The cambodian room”… his way of life portrayed in the film was what precipated the discussion…
    well, you expressed it better than I can on Road Trips…
    “so, how does one determine when a photographer is making “art” or stepping over the line to indecency???”

  1538. Paul

    Well, after a brief false start with D´Agata´s work I now keep finding more and more qualities that delight the eye.
    I even had difficulty at first in recognizing what he has in common with the other magnum associates.

  1539. eva

    Panos is innocent (this time ;) ).. he didn’t ask me for a link, I posted it here and to him directly on skype, ’cause I know he likes his work..

  1540. bob black

    Michael :)

    that IS true too…there was, certaintly, some saint-hood making there…though not from me…i actually did not like that documentary AT ALL, though I admire, respect and ‘love’ his work immensely…but not for the reasons most have (especially the younger ones)…i admire antoine because for me, and long before magnum, he used himself and his life as the center of his work…it wasn’t about ‘documenting’ the world, or enlightening the world, but like Rimbaud, his photography is the poetry, the howl and the pain of his life…i guess it helps that i understand him too, since we’ve both struggled with blindness and dealing with major internal demons which often stem from that broken identity….and yea, some consider him a hero…i actually think much more simply…antoine’s work is authentic because it is who he is and his photography is an extension of his body, literally….all the rest, both the saint-preaching and the moral condemnation, i found childish…he was living his life long before he was ‘famous’ and worshipped :))….

    and, i forgot to mention, i loved your ‘bob-aren’t-you-judging-those judging’ comment too ;))…that put me square up :))…ok, gotta fly off to teach :)))….

    hugs
    b

  1541. Jeff Hladun

    Co-incidentally it was Eva’s posting of the first D’Agata link that got me thinking once again about the language of the photograph and the artist…how they are connected, and how they influence our understanding of the work.

    As a teenager, I came across a quote from the Canadian painter Tom Thompson (one of our iconic artists) in which he expressed a keen interest in the judgement of children to his work. He felt if it didn’t touch them, then perhaps his work wasn’t entirely successful. Well, things in the world of aesthetics have certainly changed. Here on Burn we have arguments as to whether written descriptions should or should not be attached to pictures or photo essays; and arguments about the degree to which accessibility is sign of a successful work. It is almost as if a work has to be indecipherable to be accepted by some, or rejected immediately by others.

    Let’s face it, we would like to have a full understanding of a person’s work, and we would at the same time like to be able to come to it on our own terms. This is where the study of all forms of creative self-expression of others becomes so rewarding. I felt that I pretty much needed D’Agata’s thoughts to complete my understanding of his projects, and was simultaneously chuffed that I “got” him. However in D’Agata’s case it seems that his intent for me has begun to wear thin; his need to strip away everything to get to a basic core has the ring of a second-year philosophy student pre-occupied with Nietzsche, existentialism and nihilism. It was interesting to see that with the essay Eva first posted about D’Agata – and as explained in an interview Eva added subsequent – Antoine came to a point where the photography was tossed aside and of no importance to him at all in his work with the Taxi-Girls. But not for a moment do I question his sincerity and approach.

    Mapping the person’s ideas to their work is a fascination of mine, and is always my hitching post when viewing someone’s work. I’m currently doing a fairly soft study of Jeff Wall (another Canadian icon) and his photography. To me he is practically indecipherable, but I happily accept that he has become the poster child of the intellectual and academic world; reading his interviews and essays is a hard slug to the point that it is increasing slowly my understanding of the “Artspeak” vocabulary, but it seems to be worth the effort.

    I’m just trying to arc the two current threads here about D’Agata and the vocabulary of photography. It is different for all of us and encapsulates many, many aspects of our individual nature, both in terms of our production of work, and the critical understanding of others.

  1544. bob black

    M :))….

    well, we can have a ‘class’ over whiskey if you come to town…or if we meet in DC/Look3 :)))…it would be fun…i’m much nicer in person and laugh more…but just wait to you meet Marina: she’s the family prize! :))

    Jeff :))..very well put!….btw, i love Wall (the pictures) but can’t stand much of the artworld artspeak…as someone involved in that world for some time now, it’s almost a mission to fight it ;))…one of the problems comes from the artworld/the academy necessitating essentially non-verbal folk (artists) to express themselves verbally…plus the academy is steeped in the language of post wittgenstein and post derrida, and few get them/understand (i struggle alot reading wittgenstein too, btw) and so they graph the language of contemporary philosophy that has had a huge impact on the art world (wittgenstein, derrida, faucault, etc) without really understanding it….they force art students to use that language (i wonder if you remember this argument with one of the essays posted here where a poet/photogrpaher wrote some pretty vacuous things couched by derridesque language which essentially was meaningless) to ‘prove’ their artists…it’s a bane, really….read so many artist statements and monographs, it’s depressing…but, that’s the world….mercifully, not all interesting artists have bought into this …and some artist use the language and tropes of contemporary thought to magical effect too…but that’s another story…

    gotta fly

    cheers
    bob

  1545. Paul

    I needed all the interviews and the last quote I posted to comprehend D´Agata work. Funnily enough, I also feel so much more casual/free with my own photography since all the D´Agata discussion began.

  1546. eva

    Paul.. see if you can get a hold of “Mala Noche”, the other work is subsequent.. an evolution.. but not expanding outside, it goes inside.. don’t know how to explain it better..

    And the other word I was looking for earlier, it’s not narrow, but strict..

  1547. david alan harvey

    MICHAEL KIRCHER…

    you see d’Agata as undeserving of the praise he receives? i had to go look up “hagiographic” although i could interpolate and/or imagine the meaning…the LAST person on the planet who would see himself as a “saint” would be Antoine…funny even to think about it knowing the man….i do not think anyone makes Antoine a saint..he is simply revered for being totally straight up..no confusion about who he is or what he does or does not do….Antoine would be in all of his picture situations without a camera…the camera only saved his life in those places…at least so far…

  1548. Paul

    Yes, I had look the word up as well. Diference is I didn´t have the guts to admit it. You teach me something new everyday David, Thanks.
    BTW searching for “hagiographic”, I also found the word “pulchritudinous”, nice word…physically beautiful.

  1549. david alan harvey

    PAUL PARKER

    i was going back and reading the d’Agata discussion (thanks to Eva) and just caught your question “what does d’Agata have in common with any other Magnum photographer”…i would have to say that i cannot think of one single thing any Magnum photographer has in common with any other Magnum photographer…THAT is the point of Magnum after all….

  1551. bob black

    DAVID:

    “i would have to say that i cannot think of one single thing any Magnum photographer has in common with any other Magnum photographer”

    amigo, you know i love you, marina loves you, dima, but gotta say here you are wrong ;)))))))))))….ALL MAGNUM photographs have this in common:

    you are all great photographers and all of you live/have an enormous passion for photography….it’s in your heads/bodies/breath :))…and have had the pleasure of knowing/meeting/drinking with quite a few, including one of your youngest, the honorable and amazing new member Dominick N (a friend from toronto) :)))

    that’s what y’all have in common ;)))))

    hugs
    b

  1552. eva

    David…

    You know, thought about that the other day..no female winner so far.. soo.. YOU FEMALE PHOTOGRAPHERS out there.. do the work and SUBMIT!!!

  1553. a civilian-mass audience

    Photography, calligraphy,autobiography, geography,biography,cinematography…
    videography,hagiography…etcetera…

    the suffix “graphy” means writing or …a field of study
    from the Greek γράφω,γραφή…writing and then in Latin…hmmm…graphia…
    so when you see a word …with graphy…you play smart:)))

    well,ok,back to the regular program…

  1554. a civilian-mass audience

    BOBBY…you know how much I love you..But this time you got it wrong…

    in my civilian eyes…YOU ARE ALL MAGNUM !!!

  1556. bob black

    CIVI! :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    you’re RIGHT…and i still LOVE you !

    but u are still the PANTHEON! )))

    hugs, big time…

    now, got take care of them olives with you know what! :))))

  1557. Herve

    you are all great photographers and all of you live/have an enormous passion for photography….it’s in your heads/bodies/breath :))
    —————————-
    God, Bob! Oh, well, slow hour on BURN I guess, I’ll be back later…. ;-)

  1558. a civilian-mass audience

    HERVE…we celebrated your photo…beers on you mate…

    BOBBY…Speechless…you are a gifted man…
    don’t spread the word…nobody will try my olives…:)))

    Thank you ALL…be nice to yourselves…and to the others…
    I will be back later…
    Fire in Cairo…

  1560. Gordon Lafleur

    Eva

    Regarding female only competitions.

    Back in the mid seventies I used to hang out with Nina Rajinsky, a Canadian art photographer who enjoyed some success. http://www.pbase.com/image/111358922

    There is a lot of her stuff in the Canadian Museum of comtemporary photography. http://cybermuse.gallery.ca/cybermuse/search/artist_work_e.jsp?iartistid=4527

    Anyway, about 1975 whe was invited by the National Film board to publish some of her work in a book featuring Canadian women photograhers. I think it was called “the female eye”.
    Nina was outraged that such a book was being published and refused to participate. She felt that the whole concept demeaned women. She even tried to convince me to submit some of my work under a female alias.

    Just a thought, but I doubt that male only competitions would be tolerated.

  1561. Paul

    “I like the idea that Antoine d’Agata is part of the ‘Magnum family’, because there is nothing more stimulating than trying to make photographers fit in who don’t conform to the usual image of our venerable agency. Nothing could be more boring than accepting a new photographer who is a clone of ourselves.” Patrick Zachmann
    I guess I wouldn´t asked my question if I had bumped into this quote! :)

  1562. eva

    Gordon..

    I don’t know much about the Inge Morath award, so I’ve read here what is behind:

    http://www.ingemorath.org/index.php/inge-morath/legacy/

    Seems it’s her family who established it.. no idea about how exactly this works.. but I know one thing: humankind will be free of racism, sexism and the like the moment we won’t question a female/male/whatever skincolor/whatever race limited award anymore, when we’ll stop to question these things, when whomever is allowed to decide how and into whom s/he wants to invest her/his money, without having to think about PC, when we’ve gone beyond all this.. not happening anytime soon I guess..

  1568. panos skoulidas

    .Antoine would be in all of his picture situations without a camera…the camera only saved his life in those places…at least so far…
    ————————————————–
    at least so far…
    echo
    echo
    echo
    relate…

  1572. panos skoulidas

    misspelled his name sorry… its Coskun Asar,
    amazing photog himself, based in Istanbul and he is a great b&w developer/printer and also works in the lab assisting Nikos Economopoulos every time he has a workshop in Istanbul..
    ok., all that!
    ]

  1573. Ross Nolly

    Paul;

    That was a great piece (D’Agata workshop). I suppose the trick is to realise that you can do the same thing on your own. It may take longer without having a mentor alongside each day, but the principle is the same.

    I’m off to shoot a gig tonight, first one in about 12-months. Funny, I’d hate to say how many gigs I’ve shot (a heap!), but for some reason I’m a bit nervous. It must be because of the length of time since I’ve shot one and also because I have totally different expectations on how I want the images to look.

    Anyway; I’m going out with no expectations or preconceived ideas, just gonna have fun! That must be the key! :-)

  1576. Ross Nolly

    Paul; I’ve been busy photographing my folks lately too; and think I just got a “holy crap” image. Downloading now…… Fingers crossed…

  1583. david alan harvey

    PANOS…ALL

    you bave achieved an amazing international hit with this publication of Venice in IZ..the biggest hit of any commentator here so far ….i am sure you must be very proud…but no prouder than am i….you are often an outrageous participant here, and i have caught hell many times for supporting you and your work which i have from the very beginning…some folks have even left this forum because of this and have written me nasty private emails condemning my support….. but this is the ultimate rejoinder….and like d’Agata you photograph the life around you…for those of you who may be curious , i had absolutely nothing to do with this publication of Venice in IZ…Panos did this on his own…hey like i have always said, it is the work the work…Panos gets a bit of license to be outrageous because of the work…and he works all the time…..

    now Panos, yes you have scored bigtime…and you might have the reaction to “flip it” to your critics or to scream a big fat i told you so……a reasonable temptation to be sure…BUT my suggestion is to take the opposite approach…go humble…go quiet…..go back to work…THIS is the ultimate high five to yourself….

    big hugs, big congratulations my friend…enjoy tasting this moment…then let the quest begin…..

    cheers, david

  1584. david alan harvey

    ROSS…

    of course the point of any workshop is to take the method and take it with you everyday..as you point out it is quite simple…and i always imagine that this is what will happen..but some need a mentor…just like a great football player needs a coach and a violinist needs the conductor…doesn’t seem like they should but most do….a curious phenomenon to be sure….

  1585. Ross Nolly

    David; I think my point became lost in translation! :-)

    I meant; that if you’re like me and either can’t afford a workshop or live along way away from the workshops you would like to take; then you have to try and take those principles and try and work on them yourself.

    That is; read the workshop review linked above and try to re-enact it yourself, albeit without a guiding hand. I wasn’t dissing workshops; would love to take the right one actually! But it would have to be the onr that I felt suited, rather than just any workshop. In my case; I learn more from being told which pictures don’t work!

    As you know; I’m one of those who generally needs a guiding hand; or a kick in the arse, whatever is required. :-)

  1587. david alan harvey

    ROSS…

    yes, i understand…i was not contradicting and did not feel lost in translation…one of the reasons for Burn is that it is a free workshop…and anyone who is going to honestly survive as a photographer is going to be smart enough to figure out how to get a gratis workshop from me..as have have you and Panos both..that IS why i am here, and very specifically on comments and available on skype etc and in roadside cafes around the world…again, NOT grudging…this is WHY i publish Burn….

    cheers, david

  1588. Gordon Lafleur

    Panos

    Awesome. Perhaps you could post a link to how to get a hold of a copy. Havn’t had much luck on the net. There also seems to be an LA based online version with the same name.

  1589. Gordon Lafleur

    DAH, Ross

    Burn is indeed an online workshop. I’m a pretty old guy, but I have learned, and grown here. It has inspired me to work harder, look harder, try harder.

    I thank you and my fellow burnians for that.

  1590. bob black

    PANOS! :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    I told you so motherfucker! :)))))))))))))…

    i’m so so proud of you…remember what i told you in ny at the loft that late saturday night when all the damn folk had left from friday :))))))))

    big big kisses an dhugs :))))

    DAVID:

    just wrote my contribution for Jason’s Robert Frank contribution…did you send yours in??…

    more Black family news soonest :)))

    off for the weekend :))

    hugs
    bob

  1594. andrew b.

    PANOS: !!!!F’ing amazing, congratulations amigo!!!!

    HAIK: thank you mate for unlocking my forgotten password and getting me back in here….don’t you hate it when you lock yourself out of the party?!?

    ALL: had a wonderful opportunity to see some amazing and intriguing photography this evening – Abelardo Morell was at the University of Kentucky as part of their Artists series…if you aren’t familiar with his work, he uses camera obscura techniques on a large scale (room-sized) and then captures the result with a view camera…and he’s now created a portable “tent” he can use, to project the image inside and capture it (one of my favorites is a view of the desert sunset projected onto the desert ground, then captured…has a surrealist feel to it…). he’s done some other things kind of different – like projecting a square of light onto a distant mountainside in the desert, and then photographing it…We had an interesting chat about photography as fine art and then pursuing and evolving your art as opposed to commercial success….he is a funny, intellectual, approachable kind of guy….

    http://www.abelardomorell.net/photography/recent_01/recent_01.html

    DAH: sent you an email, perhaps an idea that will interest you….

    good light, all
    a.

  1595. Herve

    Bob BLACK:
    HERVE ;))))))…YEA, i need some bkk time with you :)))))))
    ————–

    Let’s make sure D’ Agata is not tagging along, then. My sex tourist years are way over… Er, I think so, at least… :-)))

    PS: to our more sensible readership, this was meant as a joke, though I am a bit of two minds about D’ Agata’s sex forays. When does sex in foreign locales with prostitutes become an intense personal “poetic” journey and not still what thousands of men are doing, rain or shine, in these locales?

  1596. Herve

    Sorry, need to corect myself: I meant “nightlife” forays, as the industry is often quoted as, around here. I do understand Antoine is not doing it for the sake of having sex. The reason why I am of two minds, ie. not sure.

  1597. a civilian-mass audience

    “Its easier to stay out than get out”
    Mark Twain

    PANOS…I am proud as a peacock… to see you Out there…
    and as the MAESTRO said…the quest has just begun!!!

    MY BURNIANS…I am proud of YOU…all of you
    and don’t forget…

    “One piece of log creates a small fire, adequate to warm you up,
    add just a few more pieces to blast an immense bonfire,
    large enough to warm up your entire circle of friends;
    needless to say that individuality counts but team work dynamites.”
    Master Jin Kwon

    VIVA to ALL !!!

  1600. eva

    Panos.. told you so before.. tell ’em to make it available more easily.. open a paypal account, accept credit card payment.. have a distributer that does.. whatever!!!

    Not just for this issue, I have seen them in their office, bought a few and some books then and there, dragging them all over Istanbul, was overweight (luggage was..) when flying home, they do great work.. but impossible to buy from here :(

  1602. a civilian-mass audience

    IMANTS,my Timegiver…the one who asks…the one is “to be blamed”…:))))))
    MAESTRO is responsible…:)))

    david alan harvey
    March 6, 2009 at 8:16 am

    SIDNEY….JIM

    your comments are related….the use of photography OUTSIDE of the sometimes all too claustrophobic photo world….i agree with both of you on this one…..as you both well know most of the use of my own work has been to communicate with non-photographers…or at least, not serious photographers in the sense we are here…however, most people do love to take pictures and do at least consider themselves photographers…

    making lectures and presentations to non-photographers all the time, i know for sure they are the more appreciative crowd AND i always show the more personal supposedly not MASS AUDIENCE work to them as well….so, i do not think it so much “us” and “them” as you might suspect…also, the most rapt viewers of work, particularly in Europe, are just the folks who come in off the street to see a print show…

    i know that when i travel and meet people from absolutely everywhere and they find out i am a professional photographer, their first reaction is often to go to the kitchen drawer and pull out all of the pictures they have ever taken…proudly…they see themselves as kindred spirits immediately…so, my point is, everybody thinks they are a photographer

    however, i do know what you are saying nevertheless…and if BURN could ever get enough funding to be all that it can be and i could get a proper staff, i would surely try for this so called “non-photographer” audience…and yes yes it would be so interesting to see what some would say right here…i think actually a few have already if you peruse the comments carefully…

    cheers, david

    Viva to the non-photographers…who are next to the photographers!!!

  1603. a civilian-mass audience

    and Viva To ANTHROPO-GRAPHIA…
    there must be some Greeks there too…:)))))))))))))))))

    Photo-graphia…anthropo-graphia…!!!

    P.S …EVA…you are some kind of …kosmographia!!!

  1604. a civilian-mass audience

    oh,before I go…I have to give credit…to where it belongs…
    KATIE FONSECA,MY GRACIE,DAVID BOWEN,PANOS,BOBBYB,SPACECOWBOY…
    and to all MYBURNIANS…you are so many…

    yeap,of course to MAESTRO,SOCRATES and ANTON…my boy ANTON…

    enough said…

    P.SEVA…how did you manage to order IZ…hmmm?

  1606. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…you are on assignment …
    “that is all about…”…
    and be ready to Submit…
    ok, enough said…i am out of my league here…

    Now, regarding my friends…
    We are cooking sardines…and we look like sardines…
    if you can only imagine…!!!

    I will be back …with ouzo and tea

  1608. Paul

    Speaking of civilian mass audiences from searching around the web i’ve noticed D’ Agata is easily misunderstood, as we’ve also seen at Burn… So what is he? An another photographer for photographers and those who understand or appreciate art in general?

  1610. Paul

    Panos…
    Brilliant news! So nice to hear good news with so much crap going on around the world. Get your sights set on your next goal…i’m sure you will reach the next one…because you know very well the donkeys goes before the cart

  1611. eva

    Civi… I’m on.. my way to the sea.. and will submit when you do.. promised!

    Paul.. yes, it’s expensive.. you understand now why I prefer to preorder books and wait til they come out?? Not only question of patience..

  1612. david alan harvey

    from Paul posted originally under Cairo essay by mistake
    February 5, 2011 at 7:00 am Edit

    Ross Nolly…
    on the subject of workshops yes it is a little too far and price is always another handicapp…and my wife always questions why didn’t DAH, HCB, Jim Natchwey, Sally Mann or Keith Carter etc and etc never needed to sign up for one. Like you she is convinced one can make it on your own. As long as photography or any dream is a neccesity and not just a desire they will be accomplished

  1613. mw

    On the subject of David’s workshops, I’ve observed several days of them and have met and become friends with quite a few of his students and I’m confident that pretty much anyone would benefit from participating in one and that the better photographers would probably benefit the most. Of course money is an important calculation for some of us. but if it’s affordable, you’d pretty much be crazy not to take one. In addition to all the things that are advertised and expected and normally talked about such as the critiques and the fantastic personal work that almost always comes out of it and the opportunity to meet and get the perspectives of other top photographers and industry professionals, there are plenty of little unpredictable extras that for me have proved the most valuable. Unguarded quips, that sort of thing. The possibility of seeing David’s new or unseen work. Or something truly spectacular like when he showed his raw card from the strip club in Living Proof and discussed what he was doing and thinking pretty much frame by frame. It’s one thing for David to tell you his strategy but it’s entirely something else to see it progress through one great photograph after another. It’s an altogether deeper level of learning. Anyway, don’t mean to come off as a fanboy, you know I’m about as skeptical as they come, but I’ve been genuinely blown away by those experiences and recommend it to anyone who can afford it. I wouldn’t go so far as to recommend hocking the farm.

    Regarding photo books, I just don’t get the economics. If a book is so much more valuable after it’s sold out, why doesn’t the publisher print more? That’s what they do with regular books. And at that point, the only people benefiting are collectors, not photographers and publishers. No?

  1614. david alan harvey

    PAUL…

    your wife is of course quite correct…given the DREAM the PASSION and having SOMETHING TO SAY would make taking a workshop unnecessary for sure …i have said that my whole career…i say it now with great conviction…

    the fact is, i see very few photographers who have those three things…very rare..look at all the time we spend here on Burn talking about those three things…and hundreds of submissions of work coming in every month and where oh where are these dreaming passionate visually literate photographers? the notion that there are many many great photographers out there is indeed a notion….there are many many many photographers on a certain level, but the same level which means one still must go to an even higher level to make a mark..just human nature and logic…the mean level is the mean level….some, a few, take it further…

    by the same logic, there is really no reason to go to university either , since all they do is tell you to read books you could read anyway…a good self education is always the best unless you need the degree for medicine or law etc…

    problem is , most need a push…most need a guide..not everyone, but most…and not everyone sees themselves as HCB, JN, SM or KC but as someone who just might benefit from their mentoring…

    i was totally self taught…however i did go to a workshop when i was 22 and is the reason i teach them now…i learned more in a week than in my two years of official grad school education…would i have made it without the workshop? yes, of course…did i learn some things that gave me a new perspective and made my life more focused more quickly? yes of course…

    the tuition price of a workshop is approximately the price of some of these zoom lenses i see everyone lugging around or the cost of a mid level camera…or, a trip to India to shoot the same thing everyone shoots? what do YOU think is the better investment? for sure a workshop is the least expensive thing one could ever do for the most gain….

    always the best thing to do when thinking about these things is to talk to folks who have taken one….too bad you missed the Madrid show…no, not my show…the student show…one week of their work…inspiring and would have answered all your questions and would have made the previous paragraphs not necessary…i will try to publish on Burn some of these classes…music rights is the only issue at the moment, since we have very nice sounds tracks to go with the work..

    in any case, if i show up in Spain for any other teaching experience, you and your wife are welcomed to drop by gratis…as you well know most of my mentoring is gratis…

    cheers, david

  1615. david alan harvey

    MW…

    photo books are just so expensive to print, that most publishers are just fearful of a warehouse full of books and an investment lost…as you say, it is not the publishers who benefit from a book becoming expensive after it has gone out of print..wise collectors are the winners here…novels where publishers print many thousands are just inexpensive to produce generally…

    as we here at Burn look seriously at the photo book publishing business i can tell you that it is not a good business…one would have to go into the biz for love, and not for money….a $100. book probably brings in very little money to the publisher because of production and distribution costs, photographer fee, and well you just do not sell thousands of $100. books….

    in any case, i will keep all of you updated on how we see this..i would love to publish a few books with a Burn imprint…and we certainly have some iconic photographers who want to publish with us as well as emerging of course….we will see, we will see…

    cheers, david

  1616. Ross Nolly

    Paul; I just thought I’d re-emphasise that if I took a workshop I’d consider it money well spent…

    David “I learned more in a week than in my two years of official grad school education” Funny; when anyone has asked me about our Skype critique I say exactly the same thing. Only I swap the words “grad school education” to “blundering about on my own”! :-)

    Well it’s just gone 2.30am here; I just returned home from shooting that gig. I took a few pics of the bands (for them to use), but as usual all the action was taking place outside on the street. Pretty happy with a few of the street pics and I’ve got to admit; i really enjoy shooting at night!

    Mostly though it was a chance to catch up with the local Indie scene stalwarts. And to be honest; it was really nice to be so warmly greeted by them all again.

    Time for bed…. :-)

  1617. Jeff Hladun

    Bob Black:

    I enjoyed your comments yesterday and especially those directed toward the language of the art world. It led me to consider what would have happened to the linguistics of aesthetics if Bertrand Russell had convinced Wittgenstein to become a pilot instead. ;) Please – I have enough difficulty working through Jeff Wall; don’t get me started with Ludwig W.!

    Paul, (Gordon?):

    David is quite correct when he says a workshop has considerable value. There is an acceleration and intensification in the work that reaps huge rewards to the student. Getting past the comfort zone is the biggest benefit, how is that possible when one is strictly self-taught? If nothing else, the experience at least teaches one how to push through the brick wall of comfort, in order to repeat the workshop experience on one’s own, later on.

    And, just to whet your appetite (and hopefully not cause any matrimonial disharmony):

    http://agency.magnumphotos.com/about/torontoworkshop/signup

    Panos:

    Congratulations!!! Keep an eye on your cadence (a cycling metaphor you’ll understand)…

  1618. Paul

    David and Ross Nolly…

    I was writing that comment at the local park keeping an eye on my eldest sun and enjoying the lovely sunny weather we having over here in Mallorca. Just in case my words have been misunderstood my wife and I both believe a workshop would be well worth spent…her questioning is her way of making me feel better, the necessity within me to improve is often intense and unbearable for those round me :) Yes if I could I would run straight to the Kibutz and join a workshop without blinking… just the chance to sit down with equal creative spirits has to be so increadible like a great a physical overdose of Burn…Plus the challenge of creating a worthy essay must be quite an experience!
    I haven´t had the chance to sit down with folks who have been through a workshop but I must admit I´ve searched high and low throughout the web on blogs for reviews and musings of workshops, like the one I linked last night.
    SO thanks for the offer David!!

  1619. Paul

    mw…
    I owe you an appology for having not skyped with you…loads of pain with my foot worn out by 10:30pm i just fall asleep…hey mw nothing wrong with being a fanboy i’m number 1 fan i think. Those who don’t like it or laugh can kiss my ass!

  1620. david alan harvey

    PAUL

    always listen to your wife first…and remember i do agree with her…i have mentored a few of the commentators right here on line..like Patricia, Panos, and Audrey to name three who shot remarkable essays just from staying in touch right here on Burn and by skype and a wee bit of hands on editing…Audrey in the lobby of my hotel in France, Patricia at a sidewalk cafe in New York, and Panos also in the lobby of my hotel in L.A. which became as you can imagine an EVENT/SPONTANEOUS EXHIBTION for anyone walking in this hotel!! but the ideas and daily chat were here on Burn..many here witnessed these evolutions…Ross is next up on deck for an essay to be published on Burn that has been mentored by me only with brief skype chats….

  1621. Paul

    jeff hladun…
    Funny i don’t know if gordon in brackets was directed at me, but my second name is gordon :)) close english friends always call be me “pgp”. Anyway you are quite right about being self taught…getting used to breaking through one’s confort zone is probably what brings a huge step forward in any students work…similar to sport training and going that little extra even though the pain is excrutiating. Thanks for the link.

  1622. panos skoulidas

    Eva & Gordon , I will do my best to transfer your requests to the right ears…
    But as u very well know I have no power whatsoever…over IZ’s choices, distribution , paypal, blah blah etc…
    Their decisions… But it’s a shame for one of the finest publications to be so hard to be found and subscribe to…
    David Alan Harvey (of course) is featured in one of their latest/previous issues..
    Hasan , the Editor is the Magnum rep in that side of the world and of course the Mighty ARA GULER himself has the final word of who is going to featured/published/exhibit etc..
    And they did amazing work on both Paolo’s and Niko’s books..
    When u touch the photos on the page u almost get a 3D feeling on your fingertips..
    Amazing…anyway so far it seems that the only way is to subscribe to IZ ,
    Year subscription through credit or paypal I think.. Either way I will know more soonest…

  1624. Justin Smith

    Burnians, speaking of books: it appears that the online Magnum store still has copies of BURN 01 available. Playing around with the shopping cart reveals that 5 copies are still in stock (or maybe that is the limit on a single purchase), so you still have a chance to pick one up.

  1625. Justin Smith

    “as you well know most of my mentoring is gratis…”

    Thank you, David. Burn is like one big ongoing workshop for me :) (and thank you Burnians, as well. I learn a lot from you guys, too.)

  1626. eva

    Panos, as far as I know there’s no one year subscribtion to IZ with either paypal or cc.. I’d do that right away. I did ask back then in the office at the gallery for one, but the lad’s English was as good as my Turkish, so no luck.. I hope they’ll sort it out, thanks for asking them!

  1627. eva

    Workshops.. I’ve helped to organize and then participated in one in 2009. Besides the fact that it was nice to put faces to names only known over the internet, staying together for a week without having to think about anything else than photography, what was most interesting to me was to see, at the daily editig sessions, what the other participants had come up with, given that we were in the same city, at the same time, with the same goal. I think that has opened my eyes and mind more than anything else.

    I’d take one again, no doubt, but I’d be careful in chosing the right one!

  1629. a civilian-mass audience

    IMANTS,
    your pictures…silents …as I love them…thanks!

    MR.HARVEY…I have an idea…
    You can have BRYAN, the video Master,the surf expert…to make beautiful,educational DVD’S…
    for all of those around the Universe…who can’t make it to your workshops…
    I know,I know…what am I thinking…:)))
    I am wearing my silver pan and I am going to play cards with my Egyptian friends…
    wish me luck…:)))

  1630. a civilian-mass audience

    THODORIS…how is your book going…
    Big congrats to you again…!!!

    BRAVO to ALL my BURNIANS…
    Remember…You can do whatever your soul is BURNING to Do!

  1631. bob black

    DAVID:

    unfortunately, i have another eye infection in my blind eye (it began on thursday and has gotten progressively worse again, like 2 1/2 years ago when it landed me in the hospital), so this will be the last comment for a couple days until my eye heals again, so i’ll try to make it condensed ;))…I sent Jason my revised contribution this morning…i wrote it last night in a lot of physical pain from the eye and when i awoke, i re-wrote it…you should choose a picture from Americans and write why it is meaningful to you…send to Jason…if you have lost his email, let me know and i’ll send it to you…you definitely want to be a part, as it’s archival and for history….i wrote about, well, the whole book and my life ;))..and Melville …no surprise, huh ;))))

    PANOS :)))…glad you remember that talk :))…i’ve always believed in you and all that matters is the work and the life…the talk aint nothin’ but talk…and who cares anyway…believe in yourself…it what gets me through the day, and especially when i haven’t even shown anyone most of my work, but marina, dima, some friends and the old gallery….i’m so proud of you and your perserverance :)))

    HERVE :)))….listen, i’m too old for sex tourism too ;))…besides, i have a wife to whom my loyalty is unwaving….and yea, poetic journey’s aint at all about going to exotic locales (i never got that), but about the journey against the well of life and memory and loss…and that’s the collision between the inside and the outside :)))…we can find other ways for each other to keep company when i get there in 2012 :)))

    Jeff :)))…yea, that would be interesting :))))….funny, just last week, i re-read the Tractatus, after 2 false-starts…took me 5 days to read and i didn’t understand 70% (more?)…and actually don’t agree with most of what i understood, so i guess i’m going to eventually tackle the 2nd book, PHilosophical Investigations…but what brought me back to Wittgenstein after all these years after college is this magnificent novel…which i read 2 weeks ago…just incredible….i’m certain it will poison you in the best way :)))…read it, and forget about the art world speak :)))

    http://www.nybooks.com/books/imprints/classics/the-world-as-i-found-it/

    I got stung when i saw the Kimpt cover…and then the book….just gorgeous…about wittgenstein, rusell and moore….amazing…and about language, war, loss, love….evaporation..read it!

    hugs all

    b

  1633. a civilian-mass audience

    BOBBY,BOBBY…what can we do…???
    Serious…
    we can do miracles…here in BURNLAND…just let us know…

    We are sending the best energy…
    remember…together, we can do miracles!

    We love you BOB!

  1635. a civilian-mass audience

    see…BOBBY…
    PAUL broke his leg,broke his nose…But he is here…full force
    THOMASB…broke his leg…But he is strong and he is dancing Zorba style…
    FRAMERS…was sick…BUT now is working 24/7 for LOOK11
    REIMAR…went through amazing transformation…
    you don’t want me to keep going…cause I will end up with a big post…
    and I don’t want to point fingers…:))))))))))))))

    ok,enough said…I LOVE YOU ALL…Egypt is winning…I need a miracle…

  1637. panos skoulidas

    Bob same for you and I believe most of Burnians here..
    Our “camera”/poetry is what kept us alive so far.. Just like Antoine’s…
    So yes our photography is our therapy especially for those of us that can’t afford “therapy” sessions..

  1638. panos skoulidas

    bob sorry to hear this:
    “…unfortunately, i have another eye infection in my blind eye (it began on thursday and has gotten progressively worse again, like 2 1/2 years ago when it landed me in the hospital), so this will be the last comment for a couple days until my eye heals again…”

    heal asap please!

  1639. Paul

    OK, I tend to search all over internet for inspiration…I´ve had quite some time to explore in this last year… so here are a few quotes from people who have been to various workshops. I can´t link to the blogs or sites because I´ve just pasted or written down what I really I found of interest. So it´s time to share a little…

    Paolo Pellegrin
    “…Photography is ultimately about yourself in relation to others… this is the same motivation where great paintings, music, writing come from… It is also an interpretation in visual terms of your relationship to a place, situation, people…”
    “…in order to be able to produce great photography, it is important to get rid of one’s boundaries and react instinctively to one’s environment… you have to bypass your mental controls and react instinctively, to a point where you don’t seek control anymore and let go of pre-conceived ideas of the subject matter and rules of composition…”
    “…Photography is useful in creating evidence; a visual record for future generations… despite its many problems and difficulties, photography contains elements of truth/reality… and manifests itself as this micro exchange between you and a subject…”
    “…Ultimately it is important to find your own photographic voice… but as much as you try some might never get there… I have seen this repeatedly with very talented photographers.”

    Antoine D´Agata workshop…
    “It’s not how a photographer looks at the world that is important. It’s their intimate relationship with it.”
    “Be responsible for your position as a photographer”
    “I disagree with looking, understanding and explaining without compromising yourself as a photographer,”
    “We should balance between experience and look.”
    “It should not be poetry just because of the poetry,”
    “Take me somewhere I have never been,”

    David Alan Harvey workshop…
    “All of this will probably start making more sense to you a couple of weeks, a couple of months from now…”
    “what is it that ignites my passion and my interests…really?”
    “how do I really feel about this”
    “what do I want my life’s work to be about? What kind of effect do I want my work to have? Big questions, and everyone has a different answer.”
    “But the important thing is to zero in on something that means something to you, find a thread to your work, and follow that thread. If you remain true to yourself, it will be a thread like no other..”
    “you do need to find someone who loves your work….but now, same as then, you gotta have work that is a “cut above” everyone else…it has always been a profession where few could survive…”
    “Give yourself the project you wish someone would give you. Most photographers are waiting for something to happen, for someone to somehow recognize them and then give them an assignment or grant – and the only way you’re going to get any of those things is to have a personal project going.
    “you find a good personal project – something that really reflects you as a human being, as an artist, as a photographer and go work on that. Because the authorship in that is going to come through so strong – it’ll serve you well if you’re trying to get a grant or you’re trying to get hooked up with a magazine.”

    Anders Petersen…
    “‘Oh, for sure, for sure!’ he exclaims, holding up his hands in surrender. ‘And, believe me, I am a very afraid type. Afraid of everything. Scared, always.’ He closes his eyes as if to blot out the terror, then opens them again, and, leaning forward, whispers: ‘But, I am not afraid of being afraid.’ Perhaps this is the key to understanding his cruel and tender work.’Really, I want every image to be a kind of self-portrait,’ he says. ‘If I take a picture of that apple on the table, it can be a self-portrait.’ How? I ask. ‘By using whatever is necessary to be true to myself: the light, the darkness, the hunger I have and the innocence. By not thinking. By being as primitive as possible, as raw as possible, as horrible as possible. Using my nerve and my heart and my gut. Then, only after shooting, I will use my brain to select and edit. This is the beautiful and fantastic thing about photography.’
    He smiles. ‘You can be as innocent and childish and curious as possible. It keeps you young.’ Does he really think so? ‘I don’t think so, my friend,’ he says, ‘I know. I know.’I think one should be very careful about handing out advice. However, it pains me to see how talents languish and fade away. Here’s how it works: the bottom of the pyramid is a really nice place to be, you’re surrounded by your friends, you’ve got your everyday life and your family, safety—all very important things. But you’re not creating any masterpieces down there. Not ever, not going to happen. In order to create masterpieces you need to go up, and once you start climbing, you change, you’re not just a chilled out guy anymore. There’s a lot of adrenalin involved. What it all comes down to is sticking to it. And you need to be passionate and obsessed.”

  1640. Mike R

    DAH, all, just thought you might like this link to David Burnett

    http://werejustsayin.blogspot.com/

    with World press Photo, Laos and Henri Huet et al.

    Very moving – I thought.

    I’ve just received my photo swap from Eva. I’ve read here that she says that “she enjoys the darkroom but that doesn’t means that she is very good”. She is very good. Thank you Eva.

    Mike.

  1642. Ross Nolly

    David;

    Funny we’ve had heavy sea fog for the last 5-days! Airport closed for 5-days. 25 degrees C though, a summer sea fog. I can’t remember such a long period to be fogged in, we’ve had 2-days but never 5. Doesn’t look like lifting either! It’s quite eerie listenng to the harbour fog-horn through the mist…

  1643. katia roberts

    paul–

    thanks for sharing.
    i love what anders said.
    especially “‘By using whatever is necessary to be true to myself: the light, the darkness, the hunger I have and the innocence. By not thinking. By being as primitive as possible, as raw as possible, as horrible as possible. Using my nerve and my heart and my gut. Then, only after shooting, I will use my brain to select and edit. This is the beautiful and fantastic thing about photography.”
    he absolutely has it right.
    the thing is, i’m not sure those things can be manufactured.
    turned on when photographing and turned off when not.
    i think they are more a way of being.
    and until you become That, no workshop in the world is going to help you.

  1644. david alan harvey

    KATIA..

    those things definitely cannot be manufactured…the one thing everyone said above is actually a paraphrase of what Anders said best…everyone agreed that a photographer must be a part of it, live it, breathe it, be natural with it…i often tell my students , don’t show me what it looks like, show me what it feels like…yes one must Be in order to be a photographer…i am not sure what you think happens at a workshop , but it is only a re-enforcement of that idea…just that alone , which might pop into your head naturally , might not automatically be the same for everyone else..a good photography mentor does not teach photography..the good mentor teaches only awareness…awareness of life…the symbiosis of life and the seeing of it..and you cannot see it if you do not feel it, and you cannot feel it if you are not in in in…..

    cheers, david

  1645. Jim Powers

    From the blog entry that Mike posted about the World Press Photo competition:

    “In the course of the week, we go through some 100+ thousand images, in both singles and story categories (Daily Life, General News, Sports, etc. etc. see Worldpressphoto.NL for more info.)”

    100,000 + images! I dunno. I find that incredibly discouraging for the future of photography. How do you judge something like. But, more to the point, are there 100,000 images worthy of these judge’s consideration? No way. The whole idea seems ridiculous to me. No wonder some real crap has been chosen lately.

  1646. tom hyde

    Have to say that the one workshop I took in bangkok with Mr. Harvey and Mr. Nachtwey is one of the best things I’ve ever done. Exhausting, frustrating, difficult, humbling, and incredibly rewarding. And all the best things in my life, come to think of it, have been thus. If it is not all about risk, and I mean that in the sense of putting it all on the line and being open to total failure, then at least that is a big part of it. I often think that comfort may be the bain of producing the best in photography, of achieving that which transcends just “good.” I was not comfortable at the workshop but I was alive in every sense of the word. It’s worth the loan, or whatever, but only if you go completely open and committed to challenge everything you already “know” …

    P.s I pray for fog every day.

  1647. Gordon Lafleur

    Jim

    Good to hear your voice.

    100,000 images, I dunno either, wading through my own images these days is a challenge. Crap? not sure what has been chosen lately, but the editing process is a challenge. More good stuff than ever, an xplosion of imagry,

  1648. a civilian-mass audience

    a good photography mentor does not teach photography..the good mentor teaches only awareness…awareness of life…the symbiosis of life and the seeing of it..and you cannot see it if you do not feel it, and you cannot feel it if you are not in in in…..

    Are you IN???
    Clarksdale, Mississippi April 10-17, 2011

    JIM…my golden heart…I am wearing your silver pan…it still fits me:)))

    TOMYOUNG…I risk this…and I’ll say …I love you mate…

    P.S …may the sun be with me…!

  1650. Herve

    DAH:”…the notion that there are many many great photographers out there is indeed a notion…”
    —————-

    But also, a lot about photography is not about achieving greatness. There is something very special, an intrinsec quality, in the colloquialism (i think it’s the right word) that is found in photos whose only intent behind them was just taking them. IMO.

  1651. Herve

    Bob Black:” poetic journey’s aint at all about going to exotic locales (i never got that)
    ——————
    Indeed. (A lot of) what constitutes sex tourism is to be found in plain tourism, after all. Martin Parr’s tourist sites iconography does show that unmistakably. About D’ Agata, I saw him a few times in Cambodia, in Paris, don’t know him at all, but just on vibes, I think he is a kind soul.

  1653. a civilian-mass audience

    LeRoy Grannis dies at 93; photographer documented California surf culture of the 1960s and ’70s

    Goodmorning and goodnight …

  1654. Paul

    david…
    Just out of plain curiosity was ”tell it like it is” created before or after you attended your one and only workshop?

  1655. eva

    Mike… thank you to you for playing along with the swap! The jogger was actually an easy print, the other one gave me much more headscratches.. and as much as I love books, I do so with my small ‘collection’ of prints coming in from all over the world.

    Thodoris… if you read this, yours is ready to be sent, need a snail mail addy!

  1660. Mike R

    The Anders Petersen quote reminded me of some lines from Abbas’ book “Allah O Akbar” – a journey through the Muslim world post-911 – in which he describes the difficulties he found photographing in his adopted country of France. He says that the difficulty came from the myriad tasks of daily life that interrupted his photography: tasks that were absent when he travelled. He even contemplated checking into a hotel to escape them. Conversely he found being Iranian by birth, and thus seen as a “Son of the Revolution” an aid to photographing in many Muslim cultures: which are by no means the same. As for the Revolution, he quickly found it “hijacked by the Mullahs” (I paraphrase here).

    Bob, hope you are feeling better.

    Mike.

  1661. mw

    Coincidentally, I’ve been editing shoots of the same event I did a year apart, pre and post burn. I’ve mentioned that I went through a long period of actively avoiding influences and that I eventually hit a wall with that strategy, started looking around, and came across burn. I think that period of relative isolation was a good thing (for me personally, different paths for different folk, etc). I developed my own style and vision and am now confident enough in who I am to consider more of the work of others. Although I am not one of David’s mentorees, he has been a significant influence. As have many burn commenters. The positive nature of all that influence became obvious during this current editing binge. The difference between the pre-burn and the post-burn shoots are dramatic. It’s still my style and of course I would have improved from one year to the next anyway, but props where props are due. And although I can’t pinpoint it, I think it’s helped professionally as well. I started taking magazine assignments again recently and have had some success going beyond what’s been asked of me, actually getting one photo that is somewhat in my style published. On another assignment, I thought of something Jim Powers once wrote which resulted in me being out at 5 am in high wind and freezing rain taking a night shot when the AD specifically wanted a day shot. But there were big black piles of snow and garbage bags stacked four foot high that didn’t look so good in the light, and a nice color theory thing going on with the night lighting, so I went after the best shot even though I didn’t think they’d use it. Got lots of positive feedback on that one, and the cover.

    Anyway, about the personal style thing and workshops and mentoring… I don’t know how it is in other workshops or with other mentors, but everything I’ve seen from David shows him trying to enhance photographers’ individual styles, not overwhelm them or replace them with his own. And something like that is why I’ve stuck around burn so long. I really like the fact that the essays published here are all over the place stylistically. Always something new to appreciate.

  1662. mw

    Nice quote from the novelist Kazuo Ishiguro in today’s Guardian UK:

    I’m not at all interested in the brave who fight against the odds and win. I am interested in those who accept their lot, as that is what many people in the world are doing. They do their best in ghastly conditions.

    Nice in that it reinforces my approach, anyway.

  1663. Paul

    mw…
    I hope you saw my appology yesterday for not having Skyped with you…
    Anyway I’m finding it hard to like that quote…in two minds about it, i certainly can understand the point of view…life for many including me would probably be easier by listening to a quote like this and stop searching for the iconic or the special in life…it’s just that i can never accept life as it is :)

  1664. andrew b.

    DAH – did you receive my email? Opportunity to help out a fellow photog and perhaps get an interesting interviewee for Burn….

    Hmm, Superbowl party this evening…americana opportunity?

    good light all,
    a

  1665. Paul

    katia roberts…
    I don´t think it´s necessary to manufacture those ideas Ander´s was suggesting… we´ve all got them, they are just hidden under piles of grown up responsibilities and we´ve grown blind to the magic we used to see round us as kids. I think if we start searching for those dreams, the ones we really believed in whilst growing up, I´m convinced we´ll be half there…Just a matter of remembering the fun and innocence and absolute lack of doubt we all possessed…
    Then begin taking images as we probably drew pictures as kids…primitive and without being self conscious, without having bumped into that horrible Mr inner critic, we all seem to share once we grow up. Remember when you used to color a drawing with a load of crayons and you didn´t give damn if the colors ran over the outlines? Or when houses seemed alright if they was bright orange and trees were OK when they were blue? Free, absolutely free and creating images for us… What about when becoming Super-girl, Catwoman Batman or whoever we loved was just a matter of time. The power and innocence of childhood.
    I often let my eldest son who has just turned seven take my camera and shoot images…it´s so refreshing to watch him never judge anything, searching, enjoying the moment and living the now. Of course he´s not thinking about his audience or his friends, it´s just another extremely intense moment in a child´s life. Funny I grew up wanting to be a grown-up… now I am adult I dream of being a kid once again!
    I think it´s the same with these photographers they are totally and utterly aware of themselves as human beings… and above all they accept themselves with all their quirks, defects, and handicaps. So if it is something horrible they need to express they just do it…without probably giving a damn if those who view their work, question, dislike or love their work. I assume they just do it as a necessity, their way of shouting out. If the public or those round them approve the images fine, brilliant! If the public dislikes the work they keep on, it´s their way of therapy of shouting out, their personal truth. So we probably just need to find that very first truth we believed in… maybe when we were six, twelve or maybe sixteen years old…

    Katia, who was Vash?

  1666. mw

    About the quote, most people will not win the super bowl or the world cup or the rat race. Their wins come through having a good time at the bar, dancing in the streets once a year, getting laid, scoring good dope, getting through a challenging day at work or at school. That kind of thing. Those are the stories that most appeal to me. Closer to the stuff of literature than sports reporting. Rocky is an easy story to tell. And it’s been done accordingly. The quote’s point of view is that of the storyteller, not the subjects.

    About the skype, not sure what you’re apologizing for Paul, but think nothing of it.

  1667. Paul

    mw…
    Sure you’re quite right from the point of view of the author. Indeed the world of literature is full of classics written from that same point of view.

  1668. Paul

    mw…
    Sure you’re quite right from the point of view of the author. Indeed the world of literature is full of classics written from that same point of view.
    Just felt a little rude on my part as i had suggested skype and hadn’t even tried contacting you :)

  1669. Gordon Lafleur

    mw
    “Those are the stories that most appeal to me. Closer to the stuff of literature than sports reporting”

    Yes, yes. ..and people loving and providing for their children and families, people doing an honest days work, people struggling with health issues, an ageing parent, lonliness, depression, people dealing with the death of a loved one, dealing with the anger and pain of being betrayed by a lover, struggles, triumphs, tragedys, etc, etc, etc, etc…the stuff of everyday life, of our common humanity, the stuff of our beautiful lives. The ordinary is ever so much more interesting and profound than the exra-ordinary. The list of themes is endless.

    I reminds me of 40 years ago during my days as a photo student. On Sundays, a group of us would often go out driving, armed with 4×5 view cameras, Hasselblads and Nikons, looking for something to photograph for the weekly free choice critique. All the tools to say something, but nothing to say. We would usually come back with nothing, or just superficial cliches…we couldn’t see the forest for the trees.

    Laura is celebrating her life right now. The universe swirls around her at this moment and the rest of us hold our breath and watch. These are big moments, historical moments. But the universe swirls around each of us at this moment, each of us, from our own unique, but inter-connected perspective. Everyone…celebrate your life!

  1671. Imants

    For the nostalgia buffs a quote from Amanda Keller via Sydney Morning Herald …………. “I blame Facebook.When I was young, if you were lucky enough to get your hands on a camera you were curious about life so you took photos of the world. These days people take photos of themselves”

  1672. a civilian-mass audience

    “Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.”
    Dale Carnegie

    keep rolling MY BURNIANS…

  1673. eva

    Civi..opened a ‘that is all about…’ folder.. just to keep things straight and know whom to blame.. ;))

    Gotta say, I have a hard time to agree with the quote MW posted.. accepting their lot.. seems so narrow and fatalistic.. people who keep trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.. suits me much better..

  1674. Paul

    Yes, the quotidian in life…the daily grind.

    A conception not reducible to the small change of daily experience is like a currency not exchangeable for articles of consumption; it is not a symbol, but a fraud.
    George Santayana

    Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary.
    Cecil Beaton

    Little minds are interested in the extraordinary; great minds in the commonplace.
    Elbert Hubbard

    Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that’s creativity.
    Charles Mingus

    Take a commonplace, clean it and polish it, light it so that it produces the same effect of youth and freshness and originality and spontaneity as it did originally, and you have done a poet’s job. The rest is literature.
    Jean Cocteau

    To be immortal is commonplace; except for man, all creatures are immortal, for they are ignorant of death; what is divine, terrible, incomprehensible, is to know that one is immortal.
    Jorge Luis Borges

  1676. a civilian-mass audience

    I didn’t like “MW’S quote …BUT,BUT,BUT…

    I read it again…and again…and again…and it works…
    Check this out…

    “…I am interested in those who…. as that is what many people in the world are doing. They do their best in ghastly conditions.”

    they do their BEST in Ghastly conditions…they do their BEST…
    they do their Best in ghastly conditions…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    See,I think we are all talking about the same thing…in the end…we are All One…:)))

  1677. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…

    Thank you…I am waiting…and I can wait …as long as it takes…
    “That is All about…”

    PAUL…oime PAUL…I have to give you credit again…
    you are really working hard here…

    High one’s to ALL…I love you ALLLL

  1679. a civilian-mass audience

    JIMMY…BURN is life
    BURN is Unique
    BURN is life
    BURN is you and me…

    I love you JIMMY…!!!

  1680. michael kircher

    Oh Jim… even for you that’s a silly comment. First of all, it’s only been a few days. And essays usually remain for a few days here. And second, and OBVIOUSLY, the events in Egypt are kind of a big damn deal. Burn is nothing like CNN or any other news joint that gratuitously milks tragedy for profit or neilson ratings. Come on. You should see the difference.

  1683. david alan harvey

    JIM POWERS

    don’t you think that is a bit of an exaggeration Jim? we do not cover news events in general here on Burn as you well know…

    you usually accuse us of being too arty….now we are CNN…geez louise…then you always asked “how were photogs gonna ever get paid?” …pretty funny…

    so now here we have a young Egyptian woman, who actually BELONGS in Cairo, is part of the culture, and who has regularly contributed to Burn, and who we Burn paid to shoot exclusively for us, risking arrest or worse, and she is a great journalist (ex U.S. newspaper shooter Jim) and with the eye of an artist and who picked up additional funding based on her being published here on Burn and well , what could EVER make you feel like things just might be ok here on Burn?

    FYI the Cairo story has not been up longer than any other essay we do here…just daily updates …which is why we do not have it in the normal slide show program…this has been a good old fashioned newspaper style scramble here Jim, which i would imagine you of all people would appreciate…

    always good to have you around amigo…always makes for an interesting chat…

    cheers, david

  1685. Herve

    Burn is starting to feel like CNN…all Egypt, all the time.
    ————————-
    Al-Jazeera (English), Jim, not CNN! Almost 24/24 coverage, following Egyptian news. I think they would welcome Laura’s coverage, as they encourage people to send pictures, videos tweets, and whatnot. No idea if they broadcast in US, and a great shame if they don’t because they do superb investigative reporting pieces.

  1686. mw

    as they encourage people to send pictures…

    I note that the Huffington Post, a publication which does not pay its content creators, sold for $315 million today. All hail the new model! Same as the old model, only much, much worse.

    No idea if they broadcast in US…

    Frank Rich talks about that in the Sunday NYT. The general consensus is that a network that shows Arabs as something more sophisticated than subhuman zealots is effectively not allowed in the U.S.

  1694. a civilian-mass audience

    damnit…you are right PAULP…
    we are all BURNING, aren’t we !!!:)))

    Can I sing now?

  1696. Akaky

    and what’s wrong with all Egypt all the time? Egypt is interestng, stuff is happening all the time in Egypt. Remember when the History Channel was all Hitler all the time? Someone must have complained because now there’s AxMen and Ice Road Truckers on the History Channel, which is fine if you like that sort of thing, but let’s face it, what are Ax Men and Ice Road Truckers doing on the History Channel? It’s like turning on the Weather Channel and watching the World Wrestling Federation championships.

  1698. a civilian-mass audience

    AKAKIEEEEEEEEE…
    where is my IRL…:))))

    Viva ALLLLL…I am the happiest civilian…
    life is now…go out and live…Now

  1700. Akaky

    1700!!! All right, it’s not really an important number as numbers go, but it ends with two zeroes and we’ll take any port in the storm

  1701. Gordon Lafleur

    Civi

    “I didn’t like “MW’S quote …BUT,BUT,BUT…” ..YES

    Paul, love the quotes.

    Imants,

    “For the nostalgia buffs a quote from Amanda Keller via Sydney Morning Herald …………. “I blame Facebook.When I was young, if you were lucky enough to get your hands on a camera you were curious about life so you took photos of the world. These days people take photos of themselves”

    Yes, what’s up with those young people these days?, poor Amanda doesn’t get it. As much as I find the whole social networking thing annoying, Tunisia and Egypt are perfect examples of how it is changing the world.
    All the groovy cool pictures of the “world” I took in the sixties are forgotten. This picture of my Grannie, taken in my family home, is the only one from that period that I treasure. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/132362259

  1702. Herve

    Frank Rich talks about that in the Sunday NYT. The general consensus is that a network that shows Arabs as something more sophisticated than subhuman zealots is effectively not allowed in the U.S.
    ——————————-

    Thanks, I read the article. Not very good, IMO. Actually Al-Jazeera is not saying/explaining much more than the others, including FOX News.

  1703. mw

    Here’s another one, Herve, from someone a bit more serious than Frank Rich. Says pretty much the same thing about relative coverage U.S. vs. rest of world.

    For those of you noticing the brave new world of html tags today, note that you can use a href here as well to embed a link.

  1704. Imants

    Amanda’s not talking about photographers or activists most people in the world do not partake in such activities. Gordon your site is full of self(family and friends) so you are also reflecting what is posted by the majority. “themselves” is their immediate social network.
    Tunisia Egypt etc are not the domain of the young they are movements of the whole society……….. young men and women just stay in the barricades longer, they have few jobs and fewer family commitments,they have time.

  1705. david alan harvey

    does everyone here know that Panos got married either yesterday or day before? i discussed it a bit on FB but did not remember if it came up here….his new wife is Kim, but that is all i know, which is not much…the question is of course will Panos love Kim as much as he loves Burn? we may read less of Panos since we are assuming he now has his priorities straight…

    wait a minute, have i allowed Burn to turn into a soap opera??

  1706. Imants

    People with mortgages , households to run and the elderly are not as willing to commit themselves to protests of change for sustained periods. Even the French farmers who are consistent in protesting come out and then go back to their fields.

  1710. panos skoulidas

    Wait… I posted the marriage license .. It’s only valid for 60 days..
    No marriage yet.. It will be a witch ceremony and I’m looking for a photographer to cover the event!
    Any wedding photographers here ?
    I guess not really.. If so send me a pricelist please;)

  1713. panos skoulidas

    THANKS Mike..
    please, please lets not turn BURN into Facebook…
    FB me for more details…thank you!….
    (thank u david, now im losing all my gay fans…it affects my sales…)
    ps: do not worry..i owe u “one”…i’ll get u next time…smiling!

  1717. Justin Partyka

    From what I can see, Kim is very inspiring for you Panos. Enjoy this wonderful time in your life. I have a feeling that things will all fall into place in a wonderful way. Have fun!

  1720. Gordon Lafleur

    Jim, I’m afraid to ask exactly what Wiccan handfasting consists of.

    Hey Panos, congratulations. I do actually shoot weddings now and then. If Jim can’t do it let me know, I’d even do it for free.

  1727. Herve

    Says pretty much the same thing about relative coverage U.S. vs. rest of world.
    ————————–

    still not convincing, mw. Best is to make up one’s mind rather than listen to the usual “me, having an agenda? noooo…” US pundits. I happen to have BBC, FOX, Al-Jazeera and french TV5 where I stay here. Moreover, the rest of the world that we know of is really just a very few english speaking major cable networks, none of them quite rendering the US ones skimpy relayers of information. Amanpour’s interview with Mubarak, which became the main focus for 2 days on El-J., came from a US network, no?

  1728. Herve

    Ok ok.. Let’s talk about camera gear please..
    ——————————————–
    Yes, Panos. it seems you forgot one e in getting wed!!! Shoulda known…. :-)))

  1730. eva

    YAY.. for all those out there who push and shove the universe.. and don’t accept their lot.. in whatever conditions they are!

    See, Civi, you tried.. BUT BUT BUT haven’t convinced me.. yet ;)

    (sometimes I wonder if I’m the only one not doing the facebook thing.. besides my mom that is..)

  1731. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…I request permission to use your quote…

    “YAY.. for all those out there who push and shove the universe.. and don’t accept their lot.. in whatever conditions they are!”
    EVA (a BURNIAN )

    Times are changing…please proceed to the FB area…the abyss is waiting for you too!
    the choice is yours:))))))

  1732. a civilian-mass audience

    WE ARE A BURNING WORLD

    We are the BURN
    We are the Visioners
    We are the ones who take pictures
    So let’s start shooting
    There’s a choice we’re making
    We’re saving our own lives
    It’s true we’ll make a better day
    Just you and YOU

    Submit your photos
    So they’ll know that someone cares
    And their lives will be stronger and free

    We are the BURNIANS
    We are the ones who make a brighter day
    So let’s start shooting
    There’s a choice we’re making
    We’re shooting our own lives
    It’s true we’ll make a better day
    Just you and you

    When you’re Here and There
    There seems no hope at all
    But if you just believe
    There’s no way we can fall
    Well, well, well, well, let us realize
    That a change will only come
    When we stand together as one

    So ,get out there
    and take pictures
    of what you see
    you never know
    what your footprint…might be…
    civi

    Credit to M.JACKSON…

  1733. a civilian-mass audience

    Now,the one who have allowed to turn this place into a soap opera…

    can at least…turn off …the holiday lights…:))))

  1734. mw

    Herve, I wasn’t trying to convince anybody of anything. As mentioned in the other thread, I don’t have enough knowledge or education to have much of an opinion on Egypt. Do, however, have some background in media, so I find that kind of analysis interesting and all too consistent with my experience. Glad to hear your take on it. Should emphasize again, other than what I linked and seen from Laura, I’ve read just about zero coverage of recent events in Egypt. Too little time in this life to be always focused on the current outrage. And there’s always a current outrage.

  1735. Paul

    Panos!
    Congratulations to both of you. Wishing you the very best :)

    A journey is like marriage. The certain way to be wrong is to think you control it.
    John Steinbeck

    Bachelors have consciences, married men have wives.
    Samuel Johnson

    Before marriage, a girl has to make love to a man to hold him. After marriage, she has to hold him to make love to him.Marilyn Monroe

    When marrying, ask yourself this question: Do you believe that you will be able to converse well with this person into your old age? Everything else in marriage is transitory.Friedrich Nietzsche

    Don’t marry the person you think you can live with; marry only the individual you think you can’t live without.James C. Dobson

    I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury.Groucho Marx

    In olden times sacrifices were made at the altar – a practice which is still continued.Helen Rowland

    Love is often the fruit of marriage.Moliere

    BTW wasn´t michelle frankfurter of “Destino” also a wedding photographer?
    Panos waiting for your version of “immediate family” :)))!

  1736. Paul

    Eva…

    I personally find Mala Noche significantly different from his later works. I like all his work just not totally sure which I prefer most of all… Mala noche is more accessible to the average photographer… besides in my view I see his influences are more obvious.

  1737. eva

    Paul.. I said so before, Mala Noche is a sort of a starting point (pictures have been taken between 1991 and 1997) from there on it expands more and more inwards.. and I’m not sure if what you see and recognize as influences ON him (if I understand correctly what you mean) are not what we see around as influences on OTHERS.. but of course, he also was influenced by someone/something, as everyone else is..

    Civi.. no, staying in this area here.. my choice :)) .. no other abysses needed!..

  1738. Paul

    Eva…
    I find his influences in Mala Noche mostly photographic…they may be hard images to look at for some but anyone who uses a camera on a regular basis can get the gist of the images… the later images are without any doubt inwards. Interesting you mention the influence he has on OTHERS…I´m too new to his work and all the OTHERS who work in this style to realize who came first. :) Learning!
    Anyway what I´ve written above may be absolutely wrong – waiting to be corrected…:))

  1740. eva

    Paul.. I’m waiting for “Tendre Venin” to arrive (published under a pseudonym in 1995).. will be interesting to see/read what was before.. and all I write is always only my 2 cents worth ;)

  1742. Paul

    David…
    I hope you haven’t thought i was joking when i mentioned Michelle. Panos had commented he was looking for someone and would they send price lists. I remembered visiting her website and admiring just what a talented photographer she is… Only trying to help out :)

  1749. eva

    David.. one has been soaked in tequila (and sea?? coffee?), the other not.. yet..

    What do I win?? ;))

  1750. Paul

    I don´t know about the files…I´ve been told it essentially is the same camera just smaller…
    Doesn´t sound very good this…

    Whereas the GF1 was unashamedly a camera for enthusiast photographers, the GF2 is now aimed much more at compact camera owners looking for an upgrade.

    spec terms, at least, this makes for the most capable interchangeable lens camera movie capability aside from the GH2 (which offers 1080i at 60fps from 60p capture). On the photographic side it inherits the G2’s ability to shoot at 2.6 fps while maintaining live view, along with its ISO 6400 maximum sensitivity, improved Auto ISO program and a dedicated iAuto button on the top plate. Meanwhile 3D fans will undoubtedly be delighted by its support for the new H-FT012 lens.

    spec terms, at least, this makes for the most capable interchangeable lens camera movie capability aside from the GH2 (which offers 1080i at 60fps from 60p capture). On the photographic side it inherits the G2’s ability to shoot at 2.6 fps while maintaining live view, along with its ISO 6400 maximum sensitivity, improved Auto ISO program and a dedicated iAuto button on the top plate. Meanwhile 3D fans will undoubtedly be delighted by its support for the new H-FT012 lens.

    The GF2 is certainly a camera that will cause some dismay amongst diehard G-series fans. Because it’s the successor to such a highly-regarded camera, and is so different in design and operational concept, it’s bound to split opinions. We’re sure many will bemoan the loss of the buttons and dials and look aghast on the way they’ve been replaced by – the horror! – a touchscreen. Others, though, will look at the more compact body and enhanced video mode and add the GF2 to their wishlists.In truth there’s not a lot about the GF2 to tempt GF1 owners to upgrade, but it’s still a hugely capable camera that, as long as you can accept the touchscreen, looks like it should work pretty well.

  1751. a civilian-mass audience

    I don’t play…PAULP …
    hmmm…not fair
    I do the copy and paste…:))))))))))))))))))))))

    I have cheated …
    so the winner is EVA…!!!

    Goodnight from Civi and from our Egyptian friends…
    Be safe…risk a lot…
    What not to Love!!!

  1756. mtomalty

    “Panos, why would you want to marry a woman who can turn you into a toad if you piss her off?”

    Perhaps, he’s been searching for someone to turn him back into the prince :>))

    Congrats, Panos. Enjoy the ride.
    I got married in Vegas 19 years ago (six months before our son was born) wearing shorts sitting
    behind the wheel of a rental Jeep Grand Cherokee. Brings a tear to my eye to this day.
    What a car :>))

  1757. Ross Nolly

    Not gear but… I got back to shooting gigs the other night and it was really heartening to hear so many warm welcomes from the hard-out punk and metal stalwarts I’d previously met.

    It’s funny because you always try to not be a pain to those who’re there to have a great time, and it’s hard to judge whether you’ve achieved that goal. Also to assess whether they understand why you’re there (your motives etc).

    I received a message this morning from one of the guys this morning, which made it all worthwhile…

    “ross mate your photos and happy positive presence at all the punk/live shows is awesome,your a great man!!keep up the good work and that flash flashing brother!!!”

    To me; this is more important than any number of good pics I may have taken at the many punk and metal gigs I’ve attended over the last 2-years. Knowing that I’ve been accepted by one of the most hard-out punk band members!

    I always get so paranoid that I’m stepping on toes when shooting; that I often miss opportunities because it doesn’t seem “the right time”. So it’s nice to know the approach is about right (for me).

  1770. mw

    I went to a presentation on print preservation tonight. It was in Williamsburg, just a few blocks from the loft, on the other side of the bridge. The guy doing it was an old friend I’d lost track of. I’m sure that many of you would have appreciated it. Very detailed shop talk on cutting edge print preservation for high end collectors and museums. Lots of samples of different papers and how they reacted to different processes. Long discussions about the relative flaws and benefits of all the different possibilities for putting barriers between your photos and the harsh world that wants to damage them. Lots of great stuff. Incredibly knowledgeably people in the crowd… curators, preservationists, paper fanatics, people who have been printing for a long time. Of course a lot of it was over my head, but I think now I’m at least conversant. Fascinating stuff.

  1772. david alan harvey

    MW..

    sorry i missed this…and mike too…perhaps we could meet your friend? i am on my way to the city now….gotta deal w some Magnum biz stuff, and not in town long, but perhaps we can connect on this one…if not me, mike for sure….

  1774. mw

    Oops, not good on the ole html this morning. If an admin wants to close that tag after the first word, feel free.

  1775. andrew b.

    ROSS:
    What great feedback..bask in it a moment or three, then go shoot some more (and keep avoiding toes/feet)!

    MW:
    I believe you now own the record for longest embedded link in Dialogue. :)

    Sounds like a fun evening – I’m just starting to play with a “good” inject printer and am quickly learning how very little I know…

    DAH:
    Haven’t seen a GF2 yet but from what I’ve read, besides the physical size (smaller) and touchscreen, the functional differences are iso up to 6400 and a couple of continuous drive modes. And a bunch of things (photo sytles, ability to “defocus background” with a slider, etc) aimed at the less technical/photog market…it will also shoot mpo files with a 3D lens – about that I have no clue ….

  1777. david alan harvey

    ANDREW B..

    yes i know the differences between the functions of the GF1 and the GF2…they are quite well advertised…i want to know about the files….how do the files compare to the GF1?? i notice the GF1 has now gone UP in price since the GF2 came out…interesting …i did buy another GF1 when the price was half what it is today just days before the GF2 hit the streets…maybe that increase in price of the old model is all we need to know…

  1778. mw

    An aside at the photo preservation seminar concerned sales paperwork. Thought some of you might be interested in relation to the recent conversation about how photos are signed and how editioning is handled. It was recommended that this form accompany each sale. Curious what you all think? Seems to me it would add a nice chunk of gravitas at the very least.

  1780. Kenneth Dickerman

    DAH

    I dont know about the files re: GF1 and GF2, but I do know that the prices on the Canon Powershot G models always do the same. That is, when the G10 came out, the G9 price went up, when the G11 came out, the G10 price went up….maybe something similar is going on here with the Panasonics….

  1781. a civilian-mass audience

    My Egyptian friends just left civilian’s house…
    they are going back…
    mixed emotions…
    they Love their country…they felt …that they had betrayed Egypt by leaving…
    BUT they are willing to fight…
    They are so proud of LAURA…OUR LAURA…OUR BURNING LAURA…
    they left a message for her…
    “Sister…be aware of those with no Uniforms”…hmmm…
    they told me …she will understand…

    good timing…I am almost out of chickens and tea…
    but I have lots of steaks and ouzo…!!!

    P.S…see you soon my new friends…our friendship is lifetime guaranteed…!!!

  1783. a civilian-mass audience

    Chess…hmmm…you have to have a strategy
    kind like a poker game…
    strategy is the key…

    I am neither a good chess or poker player…hey., we can’t have it all
    But I have You …All of You.
    Thank you BURNIANS!

  1787. Paul

    PANOS…
    I’m smiling very happy just recieved your book. Will open it after dinner… can’t wait to learn from ”the outrageous one”!

  1788. panos skoulidas

    my mothers birthday today… all i had to do is talk to her for 5 minutes on the phone and immediately got reminded why i left “home” in the first place..
    It was not the typical immigrant/seeking a better life story..it was more of getting away from her non stop blubbering mouth…i feel sorry for people that relate with me on this one and i feel happy/envy for folks like David for example that maintained such a deep, real connection with his mother..
    Mothers are weird powerful monsters..
    They can easily make u or “break” u!
    happy birthday mom and keep on keep on bitching…

    Im Sorry Mama

  1793. Paul

    panos…
    I understand you completely, my mother and I have no relationship whatsover we don’t speak… my father! can’t even remember what he looked liked. Many many times i’ve wished what David and others have with their mother…

  1794. panos skoulidas

    …hmmm speaking of fathers…i dont think i ever heard his voice…he was always sounded something like background tv static noise kind of thing….Always overpowered (never expressed an opinion, never judged (actually maybe he never even existed) , and always talked over by the
    ultimate boss of the house…
    The mother..
    .which of course inherited all those “qualities” from my spartan grand mother…
    My grand mother was probably Mussolini’s distant cousin or something….or Saddam’s or Mubarak’s or something like that…

  1796. a civilian-mass audience

    oime…mothers of the world…

    PANOS…
    “If the mother did not feel adequately loved, safe, secure, protected, appreciated, valued, accepted and respected before giving birth, she will, in all likelihood, attempt to use the child (and later the teen) to fill these needs. If she did not feel adequately in control of her own life as a child and teen, she can be expected to try to control her son or daughter as compensation. This is the recipe for emotional abuse…”
    “Mothers are particularly adept at emotional manipulation. They are skilled in setting up their sons and daughters to fill their unmet emotional needs left over from childhood and adolescence. Ultimately, though, this arrangement fails. It is impossible for a son or daughter to fully meet the unmet childhood and adolescent emotional needs of the parent. A child or teen can not be the filler of someone else’s needs when they have their own needs… Emotional abuse occurs only when the mother attempts to use the child or teen to fulfill needs which are not consistent with those of an emotionally healthy adult…”

    lot’s of work need to be done…by all of US…fathers,mothers,sons…daughters…

    “Mothers are all slightly insane.”
    J. D. Salinger

    Viva to ALL…as EVA says…not accepting the lot, but pushing and shoving.. :)

  1797. a civilian-mass audience

    BOBBY BLACK…

    may the spirits of health and strength…be with You…
    We LOVE you…!!!

  1798. a civilian-mass audience

    PAULP…
    “It takes more courage to reveal insecurities than to hide them, more strength to relate to people than to dominate them, more ‘manhood’ to abide by thought-out principles rather than blind reflex. Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles and an immature mind.”

    Thanks for sharing…

    FOCUS MY BURNIANS…life is beautiful…and we can do it…

    P.S Goodmorning from Grecolandia…Life goes on…we have to Move on…

  1799. a civilian-mass audience

    (Copy and paste from FB):
    From MR.HARVEY…
    “Whomever comes to the Blues fest workshop with me in the Blues capital Clarksdale, Mississippi in April will produce a book tentatively titled JUKE…not just a democratic collection from all students, but a real book….we are going to be shooting video as well…and of course it is Blues, Booze, & BarBQ country….we have 3 spaces left in this …”
    Contact: Michelle Smith michelle@burnmagazine.org

    do we still have the 3 spaces…???

  1800. panos skoulidas

    . If she did not feel adequately in control of her own life as a child and teen, she can be expected to try to control her son or daughter as compensation. This is the recipe for emotional abuse…”
    ————————————————————-

    roger that…
    thank u civi!

  1801. a civilian-mass audience

    “Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery…”
    hmmm…
    easy to say…hard to apply…
    well…

    AKAKY …1800…sorry mate…you have to understand…:)))

    LOVE YOURSELVES first…the rest will come…hmmm…pork ribs for me:)

  1802. Paul

    BTW…
    The link I posted yesterday for the GF2 files is not a GF2 raw file it turned out to be an Olympus camera…so I am sorry for having wasted peoples time :(

  1804. mw

    On a photography related cultural note, just came across this video by noted photographer Seamus Murphy. Interesting compare/contrast between his video and still aesthetics. And maybe I’m seeing too much into it, but looks like Canon DSLR video, too.

  1805. mw

    Turns out there’s another one (and there’s going to be twelve). This one has a lot of still photography. Still photography with motion at that. Interesting to see how Murphy handles it. At first glance, I’d say a little better than just about everyone else, though still too fast.

  1808. mw

    BTW, didn’t mean that Canon DSLR video is a bad thing. I think it’s fantastic. Both this video in particular and the whole DSLR giant sensor pro lens video wonderland in general.

  1809. Paul

    i’ve got nothing against the dslr video idea, i just found the colours very weak and uninspiring…saw a ”House” episode and the look was brilliant.

  1812. mw

    Paul, no, I was serious when I said I don’t do landscape work. Mostly just take landscape/nature photos because I’m outside and have a camera and like taking photographs. Have no professional aspirations in that area whatsoever. In my terminology, they are walking around photos.

  1813. Paul

    mw…
    I think i’ve finally given up landscape work and all the more happy for it. I’ve learnt so much on Burn in the last year with the essays and dialogue nothing will be the same photography wise for me. The previous years round here and on roadtrips i was learning also, it’s just that i could not devote 100% attention as i have been doing since my injury.

  1818. Ross Nolly

    Tom;

    I think a major part of the reason is that many newspaper photographers have so little time with a subject. One of the local (provincial paper) photographers told me he often had 6 shoots a day. By the time he took in the time travelling to and from the location he only had 20 minutes maximum to do a shoot; usually accompanied by the journalist too. Oh; and also to shoot some video for the website as well.

    Here; all I see in the local papers are record shots. I’ve said on here before that I think the paper editors undervalue the average person’s visual awareness. Take my mother for example (80 this year); she hasn’t had much to do with photography etc but really liked Martin Parr’s Think of England; which is definitely not newspaper record shots.

    Another newspaper photographer told me he wants to do an exhibition called “The Light of Day”; it would consist of all his photos that the editor said “Great photo, but it’ll never see the light of day”. Which I think says it all…

    In a similar vein I posted this link late last year but only had Imants chime in about it. To me; record shots that everyone said were “wonderful”. Dumbing down for the masses? Picking a “safe” photographer? I could just imagine what work an Allard or similar would pull out of 5-weeks of “unlimited” access….

    http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/all-black-exposure-3941678/video

    Time to get off the soapbox…

    Off to shoot a mates backcountry horse trek this weekend. About 40 kilometres through steep hill country on Saturday and a shorter Sunday trek; the rider’s rear ends usually only want a short day on the Sunday :-) Plenty of wild deer (saw about 400 when scouting the route) and usually a few wild pigs to see too.

  1821. andrew b.

    Paul:
    The link youhad to dpreview gave the option to compare GF1 and GF2 files to the canon G12…just pull them down. The weird thing is that some of the images they used an olympus lens. When I put GF1 20mm and GF2 20mm, I couldn’t tell the difference in them, although very different tone than the Canon files.

    Tom: great link, thanks! I sent you a message on facebook – did you see it? not sure if you are there often….

    Great news that the Clarksdale workshop is almost full – just wish one of the spots was mine. I was all set to sign up for it and got a note from a client who needs me – you guessed it – Monday through Thursday that week. Maybe I will try and go down for the festival in town over the weekend, but the workshop is out :(

    Now looking for alternatives. Magnum workshop at Contact, in Toronto? Anyone familiar with it?

  1823. david alan harvey

    i have been promising you all a new post for quite awhile…now i promise i will do it this weekend…things just got crazy all around the last few weeks….i am sure you understand since all of us get in this spot from time to time if not all the time…planning Rio, working w Laura on Egypt, gearing up and planing Mississippi workshop , and last month some health issues…besides, the main thing is not really time, but being in the mood to write…pros i guess can do it on demand…i am not a pro…i need to be in the mood….i am in the mood, yet tonight i must sleep..fly home in the morn…weekend works…

  1825. Justin Smith

    DAH, I would venture to say that the “written on demand” product is much like the “photographed on demand” product – get’s the job done, but not necessarily inspired (or inspiring). We’ll wait for this weekend ;-) Hope your injury is better…

    Burnians, just got an email that Alec Soth/Little Brown Mushroom are offering printing and scanning services through “Big Al’s Photo” (love the name): http://www.bigalsphoto.com/printshop/

  1826. a civilian-mass audience

    No problem…as long as we see the lights…we are ok…

    I always keep my flashlight close…you never know …when the fox will come…:)))

    P.S…my BURNIANS are all PRO’S…:))))…yeap…revolutionaries..

  1830. eva

    David..

    And if it’s not this weekend, it will be the next, or the one after.. just one thing, if I may ask.. a quick note that Laura is ok when you hear from her.. thanks!

  1833. a civilian-mass audience

    THOMAS…I see Evolution,revolution…!!!

    P.S…and I see…iamparanoid …coming after your leg…:)))

  1835. Paul

    andrew b…

    Thanks for clearing up that doubt I had with those GF2/Olympus Raw files. Perhaps the reason they have used an Olympus 20mm lens is because now standard kit with the GF2 is either a zoom lens or a fixed 14mm lens. So I´m sure the GF1 files were shot when that camera first came out with the standard 20mm lens. So probably to keep all tests as close as possible they had to find a 20mm lens and the only one dpreview had handy was the Olympus.
    I maybe imagining things but take another look at those 2 files… I can see a quite a strong difference between both, depending on where you look there is sometimes more detail in the GF2 and sometimes in the GF1…I don´t know if it´s the Olympus lens or the new GF2 processor but looking especially at the coins I see substantial difference. Why? No idea.
    Here´s the link again…
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonG12/page6.asp

  1836. andrew b.

    Paul,

    Looked again, this time on a real monitor, not the laptop. Yes, I see what you mean, if you pick gf1 and gf2, and then the “100” option so both are the same (the “100 w/ GF1 20mm kit lens” look very differnt). Some areas better than others, both ways. As you say, might be the lens. Usually when I get to about here, I realize the pixel peeping isn’t helping me, so I give up :)

    But it’s not nearly as big a difference as, say the gf1/gf2 compared to the LX5…the LX5 looks more like the Canon in terms of tone…

    My guess is that the files between the gf1/gf2 are going to be very, very close….especially in real-world photographs and not test conditions.

    Personal summary? I keep wanting to get another toy, then I realize I need to go use the ones I have more :) I’m still not as comfortable shooting with a 35mm as I want to be…got to get closer and control what I’m allowing in the frame more….

    Sorry for the nutsy-boltsy start to the day folks! How about the WPP winners? Haven’t looked at all of them yet, but have a feeling there will be some interesting discussions about who was chosen and who wasn’t…as always…

    Happy Friday, all!

  1837. Paul

    Thodoris Tzalavras….
    Last week if I remember correctly you asked if anyone had any experience with printing with a home printer. Well this may
    Help     you out…:)

  1838. Paul

    Admin! Admin!

    I´ve just screwed up my last link! I´m such a pr**k!

    Thodoris Tzalavras….
    Last week if I remember correctly you asked if anyone had any experience with printing with a home printer. Well this may
    Help     you out…:)

  1841. Thodoris Tzalavras

    Paul…

    Thanks for the link man.

    Even though what I have in mind is a bit different from what Ctein does, namely I plan on printing 8, 12 and 16 page layouts and then fold them and sew them into signatures like
    this    , I did find some promising info in the comments posted by others.

    And of course, one link led to another and now I have two papers on my short list for testing:

    one from Red River

    and one from Tetenal

    The idea behind all this is to be able to produce in-house (and at relatively small cost) books of 24-to-36 pages of short (and therefore more feasible) projects, so that I can put out at least a couple of them a year—in stark contrast to the process I followed for my first book.

    Thanks again.

  1844. panos skoulidas

    Thomas at last!!!!!!! leg is working!
    now German (Bundesliga) soccer has hopes again for next championship!
    big hug
    (and yes im a fanatic german soccer fan)…
    maybe its the black & white (tri-x) feeling look….

  1845. Akaky

    “A good photograph will prove to the viewer how little our eyes permit us to see. Most people only see what they’ve always seen and what they expect to see. Whereas a photographer, if he’s good, will see everything.”– Leon Levinstein.

    We’re cooking a small Chinese person in the back at the moment so this dump smells quite nice and I guess I am just waxing philosophical right now. Good food will do that.

  1847. Jason_Houge

    I’m not sure how to feel about calling Google Earth a Journalist…

    A surveillance system isn’t looking to get the latest news, tell a story, or search deeper into it’s own soul…
    Can anyone really say that Google Earth’s camera has any more insight than a surveillance camera?
    Just because it captures an occasional tragedy merely means its all-seeing eye is ever present in our society. It doesn’t mean that it’s trying to compete with journalistic photographers.

    Tom, I’m glad you’re leg is better. keep healthy!

  1848. amelie

    <<We’re cooking a small Chinese person in the back at the moment so this dump smells quite nice and I guess I am just waxing philosophical right now. Good food will do that.

    And you just made my weekend… I have lurked for a long time, and just when I think I'm beginning to understand the discourse and the interactions…..

  1850. Paul

    andrew b…
    Well perhaps the GF2 is not a replacement for the GF1 now that rumour is out that Olympus is preparing a pro version of the Pen :). Panasonic have got 17m pixel GH2 or is it G2 sensor to chuck into a GF.
    For the last 12 years i have rarely used any other lens than a 50mm or whatever is a standard lens in other formats. I realised early on the 35mm was not my lens. I hate that extra metre and half one has to step forward to work that lens. The good thing is 50mm lenses are generally cheaper than any decent 35mm. I think you have to be a very good storyteller with a 35mm, i prefer the 50mm it tells half the story and lets the viewer choose the rest. Anyway just my humble opinion :))

  1851. Gordon Lafleur

    DAH

    I’ve been thinking about your last tweet about how photographers see.

    Thinking about the work of various photographers, as well as my own, I see a great variation. As we have discussed here often, having a point of view..something to say, will determine how we see any situation. We view the world around us and the stream of time through our own photographer filter. Like those who search scripture and interpet and extract what supports their own agenda, so do photographers when making photographs. I mean this in a good way.

    I am grateful for being a photographer. While I think we sometimes miss what is going on because we are constantly looking for photo opportunities, being photographers makes us aware of what is going on around us in a way that we would otherwise miss.

  1854. david alan harvey

    i will do a post of course soonest, but i just want to tell everyone here that i just assigned Paolo Pellegrin to do an exclusive essay for BURN in Egypt…this will be an essay of approximately 10 photographs in b&w that pick up where the demonstrations in the square left off…

    this combo could not have been better…we started with new icon to be but still emerging photographer Laura El Tantawy for whom we are building a proper slide show right now…she must return to London immediately….so now FOLLOWING Laura comes icon Paolo who was shooting last week for Newsweek and this week shooting for BURN….these essays together will rock it AND i am looking for a world class writer who will do this justice and who is already rich…smiling..no, everyone gets paid, everyone has artistic control….

    stars lined up just right…we are rockin…stay tuned

    cheers , david

  1855. Paul

    Gordon lafleur…
    Yes we are aware of a lot more thanks to photography but we also miss out by being flies on the wall constantly watching and not being part of the ”action” :)

  1856. david alan harvey

    GORDON…

    your explanation and reasons are exactly why i love the photographic life….

    JOHN GLADDY…

    every time i see this work it changes!! my oh my new pictures every time..and some of the same ones as well of course…two or three brilliant new ones i swear you never showed before…still amigo you have too many below the bar that should not be there….your great ones are truly great, but you are showing too many stinkers..just the truth John that i think any really honest person would agree with , and you know i love you as a photographer and as a person…

    abrazos, david

  1857. tom hyde

    Seeing, yes. Everything. Give me Tom Waits, a good pair of shoes, a rainy day in the city, or a foggy one, an Irish pub midday, and, well, that is heaven on earth. I don’t even care if the pictures are any good .. mostly anyway. It’s the process of altering perception, slicing through the veil of familiarity, to see again for the first time with wonder that which is in front of us but we no longer perceive, or feel. The camera is just a tool to shave time and reality down to its essence and an attempt to render unique one single possibility in an infinite sea of energy. Photography is spinning in place, barefoot in the grass, on a sunny day. Or, at least for me, so should it be.

  1858. eva

    “…of course the beauty of it for me was just good old fashioned seat of the pants flying..”

    Didn’t know what it meant til the other day, had to google it.. but with the last events I know one thing for sure: you love those flying pants, David :)))

  1861. Paul

    On the subject of seeing everyday, I have been enjoying Panos´s new book since last Wednesday night. Now there is someone who sees all day and everyday. A friend of mine once signed up to workshop with Keith Carter and one of the first things he pointed out was, one must go out and look at the world like a Martian, just if she or he had just landed on earth on the first time. This is what Panos manages throughout the book, as if he arrived last night in Venice and was overwhelmed by all the fun excess and tragedy surrounding that sunny spot. Everything appears to be fresh and new through his viewfinder and he moves in so close to everything going on, you begin to feel a part of it all. He sure knows how to tell a story even though his looseness with his camera makes you believe at first it is a load of snapshots. But look closely and there is a very analytical eye taking everything in and selecting what is crucial to his image and what is superfluous and that is a big part of his signature style.
    The poems well I don´t know really, I am not into Jesus or any religion…got enough with photography and Burn as it is. :) I must admit I am paying a lot more attention to the images than the words, there are just so many stories going on. Someone who looks at the images may complain that Panos needs to learn how to edit a little more, but I must admit I do enjoy such a load of images and it sometimes reminds me of comic book storytelling.
    Last of all, Panos has matured so much as a photographer since his Venice Burn essay, it is so very obvious he knows the donkey pulls the cart and not the opposite. I am convinced that donkey of Panos does not realize he is working and just believes he is having fun!
    In my humble newcomer view to the world of documentary photography I highly recomend this book :))

  1862. eva

    David..

    If there was any doubt, Tom Hyde has.. erased/stilled/banished/chased away them all.. (pick the correct word.. and yours was a rhetorical question anyway..)

  1863. mw

    David, congratulations on the way the Egypt thing is playing out. Excellent work by you and Laura so far, and I trust by Mr. Pellegrin in the near future.

    Since it’s a work in progress, I’ll offer the old “what I would like to see” suggestion. What I’d like to see are some photos that address the question of why these events are important, about why we should care. All the photos I’ve seen so far seem to take for granted that the events they depict are vitally important, but nothing has given me any clue as to why that may be. Is that asking too much? (I don’t mean that as some kind of snotty rhetorical question. I’m honestly curious. I realize it’s asking a lot)

  1865. david alan harvey

    MW…

    and that is what i would like to see as well…we might have slightly different visions on what would satisfy our curious sides…i would most likely be happy with a feeling, whereas i think you prefer a literal look, but no matter….i think Paolo is pretty damned good at being a journalist with a real eye…i would say the same about Laura…so a good match for artistry and viewpoint, yet i would never expect either of them to tell me the so called whole story that many always seem to exp…ect…i do expect eventually the whole story , but i assume that story is coming from many sources….anyway, this should be interesting to see what Paolo brings us..the boy is under some kinda pressure…Burn is the small club, but with a very discerning audience…..smiling…

  1866. mw

    we might have slightly different visions on what would satisfy our curious sides…

    No doubt, but that said, I have no idea what would satisfy either my or your curious side. It’s the kind of thing where I know it when I see it, but don’t really have a lot of preconceptions going in. And don’t think of myself as a literal type, typically prefer the symbolic, the type of thing that is obviously meaningful, but in which it’s impossible to precisely define any meaning. Though can’t deny I have a few tendencies in the literal direction. Fight them though. Real hard. Really do.

    Seen a lot of pictures of that particular square in Egypt. Laura’s by far the most interesting. Still, always wanting more… Guess it would be nice to be satisfied for more than a few moments, but not so sure, and doesn’t really matter anyway cause it’s never gonna happen.

  1870. a civilian-mass audience

    “Seeing, yes. Everything. Give me Tom Waits, a good pair of shoes, a rainy day in the city, or a foggy one, an Irish pub midday, and, well, that is heaven on earth…”
    TOM

    yeap…give me Beach Boys,a good pair of sandals,a sunny day in the beach,a bottle of wine or ouzo…
    a BURN01 copy…and ,wel, that is heaven on earth…!!!

    I have a ticket for Egypt…from my Egyptian friends…
    but we have already some ambassadors over there who are doing amazing job…
    and I see a fox and a weasel lurking around
    Thank you LAURA …and let’s check this new guy …MR.PAOLO PELLEGRIN…
    hmmm…PAOLO…with this name…you can’t go wrong…:)))
    What not to Love my BURNIANS!

    P.S…I am experiencing some computer clinches…I will be back…keep rolling
    and remember …I LOVE YOU ALLLLLL

  1873. mw

    Hmmm, I would never expect “The” whole story. I confess that I ofter prefer “A” whole story. Though sometimes just being witness to important or interesting events is what’s called for. No, universal rules, I think, just always a question of authorial intent and skill.

    On the feel vs. literal continuum, I’d say I’m far over on the feel side. The recent photo of mine you liked is pretty much all feel, as is the project of which it is a part, as is most of what I do. Maybe as a writer about photography I come off as much more literal-minded? And of course I’m assuming I understand what you mean by “feel,” which may not be the case.

    Anyway, not sure what feel I get from Laura’s photos. Trepidation, mostly, I guess.

  1874. Paul

    Keeping on with how a photographer “sees”, it seems most people live with a bag over their head. They treat sight as a convenient method of avoiding bumping into things or watching television. “Tin eyes” is what Alan Fletcher used to call this symptom.

    “Strolling is the gastronomy of the eye. To walk is to vegetate, to stroll is to live. Honoré de Balzac

    Here is a lovely quote from Alan Fletcher´s “The Art of Seeing Sideways”…
    Have you noticed that although plenty of people confess they have “no ear” for music you don´t come across many who admit they have “no eye” for painting? Something to remember when looking at a picture we don´t understand – and react angrily, feeling that we are being fooled. Perhaps rubbishing something because one doesn´t understand it is a remnant of a survival instinct which threatens the unknown before it threatens you”

  1876. john gladdy

    DAVID. Stinkers? ouch.:)
    I mean, there was a whole bunch of contextual ‘filler’ in that little slideshow, that goes against the grain for me, but I kinda think you are NOT referring to those. The shots you deem non shots are very probably the ones I like best. Who is right?….both of us is my guess.
    Its all academic now anyways, and they are just pictures after alll, but I do at the end of the day make pictures for myself, and having a pretty good idea of what I like….I like these.
    Anyways, love you too amigo.

    EVA/DAVID
    I believe it was a cold tone paper you were looking for. I posted a post a good while back with some reccomendations, but you may have missed it.
    This is a TRUE cold tone paper (grade 2 only)
    http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=1196
    devved in eukobrom or dokumol should be about as cold as hell.

    john

  1877. john gladdy

    AN ANECDOTE.
    I once shot a gig at a famous london venue for a certain promoter.
    A couple of days later I meet them and they say “where are the shots of the headline band?, we need them for press”
    “I didnt take any, they were boring as hell to look at, and I had no interest in them” I said.

    “****$$$***$$$$$$$$ ***£$$$$$$$**$$ *$$ *******” they said, somewhat ‘angry’

    I then showed them the portraits I had made of a drunk I found at the bar( he had great eyes)….they didnt get it.

    We dance the dances we know….even if that means no one will pay you to dance for them.

  1880. stelios

    Mr Tom Hyde. I’m copying this, pasting it on my wall to see every morning. Brilliant. (I would stick it on my camera but it’s too long)

  1881. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY…

    i was smiling and winking when i said “stinkers” and figured you got it…we have been back and forth over these pictures so many times amigo, and you just keep adding and subtracting which makes me think YOU cannot decide….i see new pics every time…good new ones….and ones you loved loved gone for weeks and then back again…”a whole bunch of contextual filler”..what does that mean in this kind of very simple story that all takes place in one very easy to understand spot? most are just going to see this set as unedited period…

    i could take those pics you showed here and in ten minutes create a poignant essay….you have some very strong pictures in this lot John…but for some reason you are married to some of the weakest pictures in the group….

    now, yes opinions are subjective, but the ones i am talking about i would be willing to bet my boots are ones that EVERYONE would reject…i am that confident in what i think are the so called “stinkers”…anyway, maybe we could play a little game…get all of those up on a program and let everyone here vote…top ten we publish….wanna try it? i am betting the best rise to the top…in this set of very straight docu photography i am sure most people will go for the same ones and reject the same ones…try it

    your last comment represents my very own philosophy as well…great…and i have zero preconceived ideas about Speakers Corner..after all it is very straightforward….i have no agenda…no advertisers to satisfy…i am ONLY trying to make John Gladdy look his best…please do not confuse me with a client….please remember it was me who asked you to do your own dance….and ready to let it happen at any time…

    there is such a thing as standing your ground for a good cause ( i love a real martyr) , and there is such a thing as just being stubborn for its own sake…..there is a difference between stubborn and stalwart John…..think about it…

    cheers, david

  1882. Herve

    The camera is just a tool to shave time and reality down to its essence and an attempt to render unique one single possibility in an infinite sea of energy.
    ——————–
    Sums about it all, well said, Tom. On any given day, we might not be able to find way to put it, that what we are after holding a camera, yet on every single day, we, at least I, know exactly why we take pictures, which reminds me of the quote I used to tag to my name on a few photo sites, then learning that more than a few photographers made it theirs as well, even though it seems, but only seem, to disqualify the very organ we use to make a picture:

    “And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye”- Antoine de St Exupery.

    Photography does help make what is essential visible.

  1887. Paul

    “Stare. It is the way to educate your eye and more. Stare, pry, listen and eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” Walker Evans.

  1892. Paul

    mw…
    I was searching around Magnum in motion after watching DAH´s “Living Colour” this morning and bumped into a short video of Bruce Davidson´s “Brooklyn Gangs” with Bob Dylan´s “Beyond Here Lies Nothin”. I´ve always wanted to purchase that book but at the prices it´s going for I can´t even contemplate it. So I went over to YouTube to see if the official video also used “Brooklyn Gangs” but I found this. Just like you and I am sure all of us round here believes any dude who lays a fist on a woman should be locked up, but this chic should be locked up or banished with the same dude on some desert island! Anyway I am sure even Antoine D´Agata would find this a handful!! :)) At least the songs good!

  1897. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY…

    can’t do what? think about it? smiling…cool …. another topic: i did feel most of those Egypt pics on the link pretty standard straight but “storytelling” newspaper stuff imo….but three or four did go past what we always see from the wire service crowd….well you knew i would say that of course…stay tuned for Paolo…an eye

  1898. david alan harvey

    GORDON…

    actually an online group edit would be a really bad idea…editing is just as important as shooting in terms of getting a point of view…i was exaggerating a point to John because i really do believe with all my heart, that the pictures i dislike in his take , 99% of any assembled jury would agree with..i would not say that about all stories, nor all of my edits, but i would say it about John’s piece…but of course i knew he would not do that anyway…it was a challenge that i knew well would go unrequited…few, if any, would do that no matter what the circumstances…i sure wouldn’t

    cheers, david

  1902. Akaky

    Okay, so this thing is accepting my comments again: excellent.

    I agree: editing is an extremely important process that never ever stops. Never. Ever. Stops. Even when the editing is pointless.

    Welcome to BURN 01, the inaugural print edition of BURN, the online magazine for emerging photographers and their work. For reasons I find difficult to fathom, David Alan Harvey curates BURN in both its analogue and digital formats, and does so with the able assistance of Mr. Anton Kusters, When Anton is not busy ably assisting Mr. Harvey with the curatorial chores, he is off to Asia, where he spends an inordinate amount of time photographing Japanese gangsters, a pastime which, like Internet scam baiting or skunk ranching for fun and profit, is not for the faint of heart or the pacifistically inclined. Given Mr. Harvey’s admitted near total computer illiteracy, it is Anton’s technical expertise that keeps the online version of BURN alive and well and from going offline faster than one of his Japanese gangster friends can beat the crap out of him with a bamboo pole. And now, after months of intensive thought and labor, you are holding BURN 01 and thinking that isn’t it odd that in our hyperlinked digital Web-based media world a magazine still isn’t really a magazine until the proprietors slaughter thousands of unsuspecting trees? Curious that, or at least I think so.

    You are no doubt wondering what exactly is an emerging photographer? This is an excellent question, no two ways about it, and won for which no one at BURN has an equally wonderful answer. We’re all sure that Louis Daguerre doesn’t count and neither does Mathew Brady, and we are all deeply suspicious of Ansel Adams—those mountains look too stable to be emerging from anything, no matter what the geologists say—but the photographers who are emerging at BURN are an eclectic group, spanning the photographic universe from untalented bureaucratic drones and chicken killing Greek civilians to artists and working pros and serious young people out to show the world what they can do. I suspect you will be seeing more of the latter than the former here. You can never tell, though; chicken killing can be pretty interesting, unless, of course, you’re the chicken.

    BURN is also a place where many a young emerging photographer learns some basic lessons in photographic civility. Civility is an important attribute for a photographer, and one best cultivated when one’s career is in the larval stage. Most people, as a rule, don’t like photographers very much and that is because most people think that photographers are unspeakably rude. Photographers take your picture when you don’t want them to or when you look truly awful and, what’s worse, most photographers don’t even say thank you after they’ve taken your picture. That, I think, grates on a lot of people’s sensibilities. The people in the photographs are the most important people in photography and all most of them want, beyond not being in your picture at all, are some simple thank-yous, which are usually not forthcoming. Garry Winogrand* once said that photographs are not about the thing photographed, but rather how the thing photographed looks in a photograph, just as a hamburger is not about the cow, but how the cow looks on a bun with a Coke and a side order of French fries. But whether you like your French fries with ketchup or if you are one of those contemptible creatures who insist on putting mayonnaise on your fries, an altogether loathsome practice unworthy of a civilized society, no one can deny that photographers are often exceedingly skimpy when it comes to praising the people in the pictures. In any photograph there are two realities; there is the reality of the present moment, where the nicely mounted photograph hangs on a freshly painted gallery wall as the none—too—modest—but—doing—his—level—best—to—hide—it photographer sips his white wine and faux bashfully accepts the paeans of the people who’ve come to see his one man show, and then there is the moment in the photograph, a moment that the people in the photograph would just as soon skip entirely, thank you very much. All things considered, I’m fairly certain that Federico Borrell Garcia would prefer to be alive and anonymous than famous for being dead.

    You can find this disconnect between photographic moment in decidedly less lethal photographs as well. Imagine for a moment that you are a French railway worker at the Gare Saint Lazare station during the Great Depression. You’re going home after a long shift of working on the railroad all the live long day, or however the song goes in French, and you’re bone tired and you think maybe you can save some time by going out the back door and taking the short way home. Well, it’s been raining in Paris, the marvelous romantic rain that Audrey Hepburn tells Humphrey Bogart about in Sabrina, the rain that lovers, gardeners, and other slightly loony people find so wonderful, and the problem with the marvelous romantic rain in Paris is that, like the decidedly unromantic rain in Paducah, Poughkeepsie, and Palookaville, it’s just water, and will therefore will seek the middle of the Earth in much the same way that New Yorkers will seek out the middle of Miami in the middle of winter. For reasons best known to the Earth, a notoriously absurd place with a whimsical sense of humor, its center was behind the Gare Saint Lazare that week, no doubt enjoying a cigarette while waiting for its train to come in. As you go out the back door, you see Lake Geneva’s uglier twin sister in front of you, which perplexes you deeply because you’ve gone home this way before and none of those trips ever involved a sea voyage. As you stand there and ponder your options, it becomes clear to you via the curling of your nasal hair that every bum in Paris has been using this oversized puddle as their personal pissoir. But then you think to yourself, maybe it’s not too deep and I can hop, skip, or jump across to the other side. It’s wishful thinking, of course, but you’re tired and your back hurts and you want to go home and any idea that gets you there faster seems like a good idea. So you give it the old one for the money, two for the show, three to get ready, and four to GGGGOOOOOOOOO………..

    Like many an idea that seemed like a good idea at the time, it takes only a moment or so of practical application to reveal what a truly bad idea this idea really was. In mid-step—no one could call your pathetic effort a leap without suspending disbelief to the wall with a hammer and a big handful of nails, and maybe some very strong glue along the sides just to make sure your disbelief doesn’t fall on the floor and stain the carpet—you realize that you are not eighteen anymore, that gravity is not your friend, that you have spent too many years chowing down on the wife’s coq au vin and not exercising as much as you should have, and that you are not going to make it across in one jump or in five jumps, either. So you dash—a more athletically minded person might call what you’re doing a slight accelerated waddle—through the noisome pond, hoping that there isn’t anything under the water that might trip you, because you really, really, really don’t want to trip and fall flat on your face here because there’s no telling what the clochards have been drinking recently. You make it to the other side, your feet soaking wet with mucky water and old piss, and your shoes needing a good cleaning with a strong disinfectant. But you’ve solved your problem and can go home now, with absolutely no one the wiser.

    No one’s the wiser, of course, until the damn clochard who’s been watching you the whole time starts laughing his ass off at you and then points to the wooden fence on the other side of the pond. You look, and at a gap in the planks there’s a young man with a camera taking your picture. You’re outraged and more than a little embarrassed—who wouldn’t be, after all—and you shout at him to buzz the hell off. You even try to run after him to get the film, but it’s no use; by the time you get to the fence the young man has disappeared. You call him a bunch of names not repeatable here, even in French, and then you go home in your squishy shoes, annoyed at yourself for having gotten into the situation in the first place and even more annoyed that someone saw you up to your heels in eau de clochard and then took pictures of your stupidity. But as with all things human, time passes and you forget about it. The irritations of the day disappear, buried by the disasters of the next days and the fresh humiliations of the day after that.

    And then, one sunny day after the war, you’re going home from your favorite café, smoking your twentieth Gauloise of the day, and on a wall along the Rue something or other you see a poster advertising a gallery opening featuring the greatest photographs of someone named Henri Cartier-Bresson. The last name means something to you, of course; your wife has a sewing box full of Cartier-Bresson thread—whose wife doesn’t?—but you’ve never heard of this Henri person. His most famous photograph is there on the poster, though, and you stop for a moment and wonder why this scene looks vaguely familiar. You recognize the Gare Saint Lazare, of course; you worked there for years; but it’s been years, after all, more than a decade, in fact, after the war and the Occupation and the war again and the Liberation who can remember something that happened all those years ago? But then the years fall away and realization, horrid realization, sweeps over you: the man with the camera who saw you run through the pisspond behind the Gare. This is the man’s most famous photograph and it is of you making an ass of yourself. This man has reduced your entire life to this moment: you are the man in the picture, the man about to land in the piddle, the man trapped in mid-stupidity by one of the greatest photographers of the twentieth century. Worse yet, you made Cartier-Bresson’s reputation and he didn’t even have the common courtesy to stop and say thank you for your cooperation. And photographers wonder why no body likes them.

    *For those of you who do not know this, the late Garry Winogrand was a famous photographer. Unlike Mr. Harvey, who is also a famous photographer, Mr. Winogrand was not a member of the Magnum photographic agency, although how he managed to avoid membership is unknown; Magnum recruiters were once infamous for kidnapping photographers off the streets and holding them hostage until they agreed to join. I’ve heard that they don’t do this anymore, although I really haven’t been paying attention one way or the other.

  1912. panos skoulidas

    Punk is musical freedom. It’s saying, doing and playing what you want. In Webster’s terms, ‘nirvana’ means freedom from pain, suffering and the external world, and that’s pretty close to my definition of Punk Rock.
    Kurt Cobain

  1919. Ross Nolly

    Speaking of friends; I’ve just got back from shooting a friend’s horse trek. Two days; about 40kms on the first day; 16 on the second. 32 degrees C and guzzling water like it had gone out of fashion!

    At least this time the 4-wheel bike I was on had padding on the carrier. All in all; a great bunch of people, having a great time in some pretty damn spectacular backcountry.

    “A friend is nothing but a known enemy” I’ve known George (who ran the trek) for 30 years; since we were both 18 and had full heads of hair. When the trek was a week or so away one of George’s friends asked him “Have you heard from Rossy?” George just answered “No; but he said he’ll be here and he will”

    And if the boot was on the other foot and George had promised something I would have answered the same way. That is the definition of all friendships…

  1923. Ross Nolly

    Yea; they reckon Aussie wine do that to you, you should try some of the higher class New Zealand wines… But don’t tell Imants that I said that ok? :-)

  1924. Imants

    David obviously it would not work for all people but it is possible, not easy and most would dread the thought
    I have a set number of books completed (a run of seven in a series) with images that run in a certain order/sequence so to me the editing is completed each book is a single body of work not a collection of photos. So maybe some time in the future it would be feasible to organise a multi/individual edited style of book out of what is there by the audience. I would seem to think that on a blurb sort of format it would be possible.
    .

    Sure the meanings/ narrative would be altered but that may be the interesting part a sort of evolving book. Maybe it is because the way I work picking up images from here there, out of context, re-appropriate myself, remake photos(colour tone etc) In that last proposed portraits book(link on painter) there are 12 new images and the others are reinvented …………same mother different father

  1925. Imants

    there are 12 new images and the others are reinvented ……. by that I mean the images appear in other books.

    David I am just thinking aloud

  1930. Ross Nolly

    “the more time I spend on book creation the less internet friendly the work becomes”

    Why is that Imants? Is it because you tend to dwell for longer on a picture in a book? Or do we expect an online presentation to be “faster”?

  1931. Imants

    The images have a different visual language they have companion images that are friendly and they are a lot more tactile.
    Images on paper are not backlit and I do alter the conceptual framework of the whole piece. Each book is a n artwork just as a painting or a sculpture is.

    On the net we get a sequence of images ……….. sometimes we forget the first one we looked at in a hurry and lose the thread

  1932. Herve

    “A friend is nothing but a known enemy”

    Geez Panos; thats a pretty cynical quote! :-)
    ———————

    Panos, you forgot his quote that he found his friends in his head. So, back to square one: we are our own worst enemy! :-)))

    “The duty of youth is to challenge corruption”.
    ——————–

    Funny quote for a junkie…

  1934. a civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY…you know I love you…
    BUT
    next time…can you make me look little more…hmmm…sophisticated…
    I admit…I am a chicken killing civilian…BUT …
    I would like to be remembered as a wine-drinking Civilian…:)))

    Love to ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

  1936. a civilian-mass audience

    and yes…BRAVO to LAURA…our BURNING LAURA!!!

    now,MR.HARVEY …you can bring …MR.PAOLO boy in…

    We will teat him right….:)))))))))))

    P.S EVA,VIVA…What Not To LAUGH…!!!

  1939. Paul

    I ordered Alex Webb´s and Rebecca Norris´s “Emerald Isle” last week and received the package on Friday morning, though I just have not had the sufficient time to sit down this weekend and open it until last night… Why oh why do book designers print images across the gutter? The book is full of fascinating images and in my usual humble view are mutilated by this irritating infernal practice, unfortunately much beloved of book designers.Such a shame! I would much prefer and enjoy seeing these images smaller and fitting on one bloody page.

  1940. Paul

    Funny thing these days! Studying and following so much documentary photography the first very noticeable transformation in my style is I am not shooting vertical images any more! What a relief to be able to keep my eye stuck to the viewfinder and be so aware of what is happening round me, without finding it necessary to turn the camera on it´s side and then suddenly realizing I missed a shot in that second or so.

  1941. david alan harvey

    IMANTS…

    yes, i see now how that might work in the context you so describe…i suppose the only thing that matters is if the artist is pleased with the results….so if you feel comfortable with a group edit, so be it…

    EVA…

    the Italians have got it….complimenti…..thanks for linking

    JOHN..

    both did pretty damned good..Alex definitely has the action/newsy shots best in this edit…Paolo the feel…hard to judge from a news magazine edit….frankly i am just sick that we do not have our new website up and running at Magnum…this event had Dominic Nahr, Moises Saman, Alex Majoli and Paolo Pellegrin all in Cairo for Magnum….we should have packaged that whole thing….actually had i known they were all going to be there, i would have taken out a loan and done it here…

  1942. david alan harvey

    PAUL

    if the photographs in Emerald Isle run across the gutter , it is because Alex and Rebecca made it so….you cannot blame the designer for this…the layout in a book from either of these photographers would be 100% approved by them….it is a compromise for size for sure…size does matter….i have had pictures across the gutter in some books and not in others…for example i would not allow any photograph across the gutter in DivSoul yet wanted each pic the same size in Living Proof so let it happen…DS was more about the pictures as pictures whereas LP was a rough collection…in upcoming RIO book, i absolutely WANT the photos to be “magazined” across the gutter…no pretense for any kind of “precious” look….blast, big, sexy, hot…..of course i do not want a gutter running through certain parts of a picture, so care must be taken…. for Family Drive i would want no gutter……i can only imagine that Alex/Rebecca wanted the impact of the extra size in their photographs for Emerald Isle and the breaks are about as clean as possible….a Smithson sewn binding also makes for a better feel (opens flat) if the gutter is trespassed….

    cheers, david

  1943. Paul

    This group edit idea I like it! I may sometime this week or next post a link and you can all tell the truth about my work! :) I am absolutely sure I am going to learn from this, I´ve got nothing to loose no street cred to ruin!

  1944. Paul

    David…
    Yes Divided Soul is for sure the benchmark for my comparison to Emerald Isle. You see I don´t have to squint and nearly rip the book open to see your images, it´s a perfectly natural way of viewing an image!

  1945. david alan harvey

    PAUL

    well, you will also notice that i have not shot a vertical for many years….as you say, an un-natural turning of the hands and arms and maybe a lost moment…mostly though we see life as a horizontal…we read horizontal….movies are horizontal…damn, just saying this makes me want to shoot a vertical!! laughing…

  1946. Paul

    David…
    My teacher at college always instilled me shoot twice each image whenever possible, always just in case some magazine wanted an image there would be both to choose from!

  1947. Paul

    David…
    “Dusk street scene, Havana Cuba 1998” is the only image in Divided Soul which has been shot as vertical! :)
    Is all that book shot with Fuji Velvia or did you also use Provia?

  1949. mw

    Life’s more a vertical when we’re laying down horizontal; or looking in a corner. Emerald Isle was one of the first photo books I really looked at and remember noticing how the pics ran across the gutter. My cynical thought was that they probably didn’t want anyone to be able to scan the images. Kind of like DRM on music. That thought, of course, immediately followed the one in which I realized I’d like to scan the images. Guess I’m still a bit old fashioned. I like one image per very large page AND the ability to steal it without too much work.

    Don’t know what’s up with Panos’s obsession with quotes from rock stars who died young, hardly the wisest of individuals outside of their innate ability to write catchy lyrics.


    I want the angel
    Whose touch don’t miss
    When the blood comes through the dropper like a thick red kiss

    If I could break through I could be certain
    But this obsession is like some fiery curtain
    All the numbers reduced to zero
    And those who died young, they are my heroes

    They are my heroes, they took the walk
    Where the heart made sense and the mind can’t talk
    I want the angel
    Whose child don’t weep

    She’s got dreams designed for eternal sleep

    Well, to be a blind man,
    Hey, that would be a fine thing
    Then I could dream at night of total strangers

    And all the music would be so spaceless
    And all the women would be so faceless,
    They’d be so faceless they’d be like old film
    Just like old film I never did process

    — JC (Jim Carroll)

  1950. eva

    Horizontal vs. vertical.. I think a lot has to do with how we view pictures.. I mean the device we use, which in the past years has gone from mags and books to online viewing.. horizontal seems more natural on a monitor..

    That said, I LOVE the breakup of vertical pictures throughout books and exhibitions.. really do.. I think it’s a pity to loose the habit of seeing vertical as well as horizontal..

  1951. david alan harvey

    PAUL..

    all of the Cuba book is Velvia 50…including my one and only vertical street scene(appears in both books)…the more recent work in DivSoul is Velvia 50 and the earlier is Kodachrome.

  1953. Paul

    Eva…
    My favourite for many years has been the square format. I am actually forced to think square when I shoot with my Fuji6x7III because I sold my 4×5 enlarger thinking I would never go back to film…Wrong again Paul! So now the enlarger I am using only goes up to 6×6!

  1954. john gladdy

    DAVID.
    I think the use of a group edit/vote based system, could very well be an interesting educational tool, along with contact sheet study, especially with the input from the author as to choices/rejections etc…
    But as a final solution for essay publishing? No. surely no one would agree to that. It would be like telling someone their memories are not valid unless screened by a committee. A straw poll on whether a work is fit for mass consumption…
    Personally I think slugging it out for fifteen rounds with a couple of people you trust, even(especially) if you disagree most of the time, gives the work the best chance of emerging relatively close to its authors intentions, while still having had the choice of outside wisdom, even if rejected.

    I wonder though if the idea of a democratic edit would work on the book you plan to make from your blues workshop. In that context/enviroment it may well prove instructive both to teacher and pupil.

    john

  1955. Imants

    Not sure if artists’ are easily pleased full stop!………. there is always something that irks.

    .. Anyway there is nothing out there that facilitates that editing work creation model though I would eventually consider giving it a shot even if the results piss me off. Meanwhile I have other things to do

    .
    .
    a Smithson sewn binding also makes for a better feel (opens flat) if the gutter is trespassed… a tender line I guess

  1956. Paul

    david…
    These days when you process your RawFiles are you looking for that same Velvia look or do you just take each image and play about with it until you find something you are happy with?

  1957. mw

    The word “square” is a pejorative for a reason. Regarding the group edit thing, the Brooklyn Museum did that a few years ago, had a photos if Brooklyn competition in which the final images were voted into the exhibit by the general public. If my memory serves me well, the public ultimately preferred the most postcard-like images of the most popular sights.

  1958. david alan harvey

    JOHN

    i agree with you totally….

    yes, it will be interesting to see how JUKE gets built…the organic nature of any class has its own editing mentality but this will be a first for all of us…i like to change up…..we have been doing slide shows as the end result of class long enough…time to break….so books will now become my grand finale…at least i think so…we will see how it flows……and for sure a learning experience for all…a teacher is not a preacher…but is going with the flow and learning right along with everyone else…

    IMANTS

    who said artists are easily pleased? not me……would you really publish a book with your name on it that was from a group edit that pissed you off? hmmm, doesn’t sound like much fun to me…

  1959. david alan harvey

    MW…

    group edits sound good…the people vote…sounds good but nobody ever really likes it in the long run…”hey mom i won, look what EVERYBODY liked” no way ….for example you have the “peoples vote” version of the Acadamy Awards Oscars….i cannot even remember the name of this award….and everybody gets all dressed up and i think it is a tv show too, but nobody really cares what the people think..they only really CARE about the jury version..what those idiots, that they criticize over and over, of the ACADEMY think!! the democracy of a peoples choice award is boring…i cannot think of a single good example where it works and is respected….but look at American Idol ( i have never seen this show)…but i do know the jurors are the show!!!

  1960. Imants

    would I publish one, maybe a long way down the line but I used to do a lot of collaborative artwork with sorta like minded people………. many disasters some successes because like minded usually went it’s own way. It was quite a game in the 70’s 80’s…………… not too many were pleased with the outcomes.

  1962. david alan harvey

    MW.

    hey Michael, what the hell are you doing up at this hour?? here i am talking with all these Europeans and an Aussie who never sleeps, and then you pop up….out late or up early?

  1963. Imants

    I use the term collaboration very loosely here, we used to farm out parts of the artwork to people unknown but willing to participate(a drawback from art school days). Got soem wierd stffu out from people………

  1965. mw

    Was wondering the same about you, though I guess with you it’s more a question of whether you are up early or in significantly different time zone? Me? I’m an early riser. Get more done between 4 and 8 am than any other four hour stretch.

  1969. Paul

    Marcin…
    I know pisses me off all the time I love 6×7 saving up for a bigger enlarger :)
    Nice photo,
    you will never go digital will you !!! :))

  1970. Paul

    Always up at 5:30am, I take the dog out for our favourite walk everyday. When I wasn´t injured I´d be up by 4:00 am running for an hour :)

  1971. david alan harvey

    PAUL…

    i basically go for that Velvia look which is only a slight modification of the Kodachrome look…i like a solid black, do not care about shadow detail, well saturated highlights, generally monochromatic and probably a little too dark for some tastes…but i do it all in the camera…my photographs are not “processed” except to match what i shot….i suppose this is the case because i shot trannies most of my life…get it right in the camera is just an old habit….as i am working now with Paolo Pellegrin, i see a whole new thing…he has two people working for him just on the processing…interesting.

  1972. Paul

    BTW I´ve uploaded my group edit to my blog only thing is it´s password protected for Burn regulars. Reason? All the images are of my kids. Any suggestions how to pass on the Password privately?

  1981. Paul

    Imants, John Gladdy and Marcin…
    Would any of you be interested in taking a look at my images?
    I should of expressed myself better about the Password. Password protected only Burn regulars are allowed.

  1984. eva

    Marcin.. googled quickly that Kodak thing you use.. does that come also in 220 that you know of? Very nice light you have there..

  1987. eva

    Marcin.. thanks, found it.. but not found a supplier yet.. hunting.. ehmm.. yeah, that Italian light is something, eh? ;)

  1988. Thomas Bregulla

    DAH,

    for my business traveller essay (“5 to 9 – the longer days”), I have an edit (24 pictures) which is
    OK enough for me to show to you. Certainly is not final.

    Question: Show it here publicly or discuss on skype with you for a first impression?

  1990. Herve

    DAH
    …i suppose this is the case because i shot trannies most of my life…
    ———————
    First I thought: !!!!, then with a little thought process, I understand you meant transparencies, not tranvestites! :-)))

  1991. andrew b.

    Eva
    Lovely portrait, and a bit of fun to see an image of you as well!

    Marcin
    Incredible light in that street photo.

    Someone…whoever posted the link to the blog entry on newspaper photography….I looked back and can’t find it again, and don’t remember who posted it…but thank you – very interesting read, hadn’t thought about things that way…

    Paul!
    Had lost track of reading your blog…love Sketching Sihlouettes….would you email me the password? Would love to see…

    All
    On orientation….I thought it was just me not being smart enough to know when to take an image vertically! My in-laws gave me a collage frame for Christmas, one of those large things that has cut-outs for 24 4×6″ prints. 12 vertical, 12 horizontal. It’s fun and I wanted to fill it for the family room with images that are good memories, not necessarily good photographs (you know what I mean).

    I struggled to find enough verticals…went throguh the family snapshots back to 2000, and discovered I probably have a 4:1 ratio of horizontal to vertical, maybe more….

  1992. Herve

    BTW, evryone, today is Civi’s birthday. I sent her (him?) a big kiss on Facebook, and I hope you won’t mind I illustrate that with a shot from the St Valentine celebration in Pattaya, Thailand, today. Silly stuff, but when you are not in Cairo, shoot in your own garden:

    http://www.pbase.com/image/132523039/original

    (when I showed up, they had been at it 34 hours, new world record I was told, and 4 couples were still smooching)

  1994. Paul

    andrew b…
    sent you an e-mail with the password.

    Hey, any other regular Burnians interested in seeing images I have been working on with my kids, just post me your e-mail and I will send the password. All opinions are welcome and please no fear of criticism I am showing these images as a way of learning. :)

  2008. eva

    Andrew.. it wont happen anytime soon ;)

    .. and I bet Akaky was sitting there with all the tabs open one by one.. biting his tongue.. hitting away on the keys.. murmuring and chanting.. ;)

  2010. eva

    ..and since I have a brain like a colander and forget everything.. don’t care much about birthdays.. but but but, CIVI.. auguri :)

  2011. a civilian-mass audience

    I am out of time…Big partyyy in the civilian’s house…

    thank you from my heart…for all your wishes here and in the book of face area…

    Today we celebrate our Unique way of being humans…we celebrate good energy…
    be you,embrace our differences…love to the Universe…
    ouzo,retsina,mythos beer,souvlakia,lamb souvlisto,wine and baklavas on Me…

    I will be back…to report …the aftermath…
    LOVE PEACE and PHOTOGRAPHY

  2012. a civilian-mass audience

    am I in the right aisle…hmmm…
    well,i will be back

    OPA,opa..what’s my name?…hmmm

  2013. david alan harvey

    CIVILIAN…

    i guess i am picking up the news late…too much news around here to keep up with, but your BIRTHDAY is of course the most important…wishing you the Happiest of Birthdays and one of these days i look forward to sharing good times in person…

    big hugs, david

  2014. Akaky

    PAUL, shooting trannies is all right, so long as you eat what you kill–that’s only environmentally sound, after all–and the cops dont catch you doing it.

    CIVI, FELIZ CUMPLEANOS!!!!!

  2016. david alan harvey

    anyone who has written me lately at my Burn magazine e-address needs to be patient please…that mailbox is temporarily dysfunctional…we are trying to fix it now…has something to do with the Burn server….we might be on overload….

  2020. Akaky

    If you walk down the main thoroughfare of our happy little burg, said thoroughfare being Main Street, a name that combines accuracy, pithiness, and an extraordinary lack of imagination in just two words, you will pass a great deal of mediocre 19th century architecture; many a mediocre 19th century architect first practiced his craft here before going on to inflict their indiscernible architectural talents on larger and more remunerative towns; you will eventually pass Gallagher’s Restaurant. Here in our happy little burg everyone goes to Gallagher’s for breakfast sooner or later. The bacon is crisper at Gallagher’s than anywhere else in the county, the pancakes are lighter than air, the maple syrup on the pancakes is the real thing, not the maple flavored sticky sugar syrup you buy in the supermarket, and Gallagher’s is where the wise solons who govern our happy little burg go and do the public’s business. I suppose they could do the public’s business at City Hall, but they choose not to, as City Hall was supposed to cost the taxpayers six million dollars and, as is the wont with many government project, wound up costing the taxpayers twelve million dollars instead, the discrepancy between the original estimate and the eventual price tag being the cost of keeping our impressive new City Hall from sinking into the sea of mud that apparently no one realized they were building on. Our solonic class, being not entirely stupid, although there are many in town who would disagree with that statement vehemently, and realizing that doing business in a building that reminded the citizenry why they hate the solonic class in the first place was not an idea conducive to one’s chances for re-election, immediately decamped to Gallagher’s, leaving the police and the municipal bureaucracy at the now fairly stable City Hall, there to endure the whips and scorns of the public’s contempt. And the coffee is better at Gallagher’s too.

    As you enter Gallagher’s you pass the large blackboard that lists the day’s specials, which are usually written in red chalk and are just as usually misspelled, for the public’s perusal. This past Friday the soup of the day was she-crab soup, and so after a long and otherwise pointless digression we come to the point of this screed. I am not sure how she-crab soup differs in taste from he-crab soup; one cannot, after all, discern the sex of a pig by eating a sausage; and I am not sure how one goes about telling the difference between a he-crab and a she-crab, and I am sure I do not want to know. The process is, no doubt, intrusive in the extreme, the sort of thing that would result in a lawsuit if it happened to someone you knew personally, but I assume having an exoskeleton renders your privacy rights null and void in our security-minded world. That someone would accept money to make sure that only she-crabs wind up in the she-crab soup is, I think, testimony to the parlous state of chivalry in this country today. In a country where, once upon a long time ago, a lady would use the word limb instead of leg lest someone accuse her of gross vulgarity and would smack the face of any man who would use such a word in polite conversation with her, we now accept as a commonplace that a strange man may inspect female crustaceans for the purpose of soupifying them with the same disregard for their modesty as this same man might use in inspecting a line of prostitutes for an equally nefarious purpose.

    How did this thuggish state of affairs come about? I suppose that there are many possible root causes at work here: higher taxes, the 1960’s, the Boston Red Sox, the increased depersonalization and anomie amongst today’s youth as they struggle to find a meaningful existence in a world devoid of God, but I also suspect that a major contributing cause is the increasing pornification of the world’s fauna by the media.

    Yes, it is once again time to shoot the messenger and not treat the underlying causes of the problem, or so many people are now thinking, but if you can’t shoot the messenger, then who can you shoot? What is the point of having a messenger in the first place if you cannot shoot them if they come with bad news? And in this case the fusillade is entirely justifiable. Today’s media, especially the cable television networks, bombard the impressionable minds of our young people with an endless stream of bestial filth. Only the other day I sat in silent horror in front of my television set with a mouthful of half-eaten potato chips as some species of Siberian duck copulated while the narrator intoned that this particular species returned to the same lakes every year in order to reproduce. And as far as I can tell, no one protested. I daresay that if I and my neighbors learned that the sleazy guy down the street ran a hot-sheets hotel that the Elks returned to every year in order to reproduce then the police had better do something about it and not when they felt like it, either, not if they didn’t want a crowd of angry homeowners shouting down the police commissioner at the next city council meeting. But in this case nothing, absolutely nothing, happened; no one called this station to tell the manager that their display of aquatic porn was in any way inappropriate, even for a cable channel. It does make you wonder what has happened to the nation’s moral compass when a television station puts on a program showing a female anaconda engaging in group sex and then passes off this disgusting display of sluttishness as a lesson in natural science. Diarrheas is also an exercise in natural science, but save for the problems of one incontinent three-toed sloth, I do not believe I’ve ever had to watch this particular exercise in natural science anywhere on American television. That alone tells you something about the priorities of American television in our day and age.

    It does make me wonder just how today’s young people are supposed to learn to treat the natural world with respect when all these young people see on television and in their classrooms is an unceasing putrescent tide of ecoporn that undermines any respect they may have had for the world’s ecology. Under such circumstances the young person who chooses to study nature anywhere except in a laboratory will be the target of suspicion and gossip as their friends and neighbors wonder what kind of deviant this young person is and how did they manage to hide their perversions for so long? How can natural science long endure when the public links the study of nature to a desire to traffic in humanity’s worst instincts? The world wonders. In the meantime, I’m going to Gallagher’s for a hamburger.

  2022. andrew b.

    AKAKY

    “we now accept as a commonplace that a strange man may inspect female crustaceans for the purpose of soupifying them with the same disregard for their modesty as this same man might use in inspecting a line of prostitutes for an equally nefarious purpose.”

    Soupifying them. Brilliance. Sheer, stupifying, brilliance.

  2024. andrew b.

    DAH…interesting…
    “Guys prefer photos with girls. Girls prefer photos with girls. Pretty much everyone prefers photos with girls,” explained Pixable CEO Inaki Berenguer at a recent Social Media Week panel.”

    well, I’m glad that they got that part right ;)

    The statistics are mind-numbing about how many images they have. Now, to add a bit of 1984 paranoia to the mix…think about the fact that most of those images are tagged with individuals identified in them…and they can be easily sorted by tagged faces, giving facebook the ultimate global facial recognition database. They are already capable of suggesting tags for your photos (they actually backed off introducing that, deciding it was “too creepy”).

  2025. eva

    You all know that by ‘liking’ something or someone, by answering those funny tests, by tagging, by giving your colour preferences, by becoming a fan of… you’re in the system.. it’s all fun and innocent.. and nobody would ever use all that info in any way.. of course..

  2026. eva

    “thoroughfare, solons/solonic, wont, conducive, perusal, screed, parlous, nefarious, thuggish, anomie, sloth”

    ..with anomie being the only word where a mere translation wouldn’t do, had to search further to understand.. that’s what I’ve learnt today, expanding my knowledge of English language.. at least for a minute or two..

  2027. a civilian-mass audience

    To receive good energy from ALL your friends…amazing
    to survive a civilian’s party…perplexing:)))
    To read AKAKY’S posting…eye BURNING
    to realize that you are a chicken killing civilian…heartbreaking
    to keep eyes open for the next post…challenging
    to meet MR.HARVEY in person…priceless

    THANK YOU ALL…for the wishes
    may your wishes come back to you!!!

  2028. Paul

    Still can´t get over the images running over the gutter in “Emerald Isle”! Keeps on reminding me of how pissed off I used to get when my good old vinyl records skipped or had lots of crackling and popping.

  2029. david bowen

    harvey
    the quantity of facebook photos you link here http://mashable.com/2011/02/14/facebook-photo-infographic/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Mashable+(Mashable) considered alongside this http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2011/02/14/recent-facebook-changes-are-bad-for-professional-photographers/ is interesting.. now that facebook have the boggest share of online photos, whats their plan?

    may not be that much of a problem.. easy ways around it.. an i guess most businesses have no need for pictures of tom/dick/harry when they were at school in the 80’s
    :o)

  2031. david bowen

    paul – my fav binding + book size is that used on bendicksens satellites n hetheringtons infidel..
    published by aperture and boot respectively.. ‘swat i wanna have.

  2035. Paul

    david bowen…
    Thanks :) Yes this type of cross gutter printing seems a little more reasonable at least they take advantage of both pages! Ok I am still wary of this gutter printing but I can see the reason in this book. http://www.chrisboot.com/new_infidel.html.
    The problem is I really like Alex´s and Rebecca´s images, but either I can´t SEE them properly or the damn gutter distracts my viewing! It just defeats the sole object of printing a book!
    And Jonas Bendiksen´s book better have a good binding with so much going on in the centre of those images/gutter.
    Now if it was printed my way, I would use this is the book as reference…http://thephotobook.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/eugene-richards-the-blue-room/
    BTW Tim Hetherington´s Infidel will probably be on my next amazon order so thanks again !

  2036. mw

    Gotta confess, I don’t get the hysteria over the new Fuji camera. How is it gonna be significantly different than any of the many other cameras with the same APS-C sensor?

  2037. Paul

    michael kircher…
    what I can´t understand is how I got Venice before you did! I choose cheap post!
    Unless it´s printed in Europe?

  2038. david alan harvey

    MW

    i honestly did not know it was the same sensor as in other cameras..is it? yet , for sure that camera is hot for only one reason…it is just so so so retro…the look, the feel, the way the controls are placed and the rangefinder/optical viewfinder…everybody wants a Leica, but nobody can afford a Leica , so this is an affordable alternate…just my guess

  2040. Paul

    David…
    the sensor is said to be at least 2 years old tech-wise. But yes a cheap alternative to Leica.
    Where is Voigtlander? Wake up guys!!

  2041. david alan harvey

    DAVID BOWEN…

    and now Chris Boot is head of Aperture..so there you have it..by the way, Boot is the guy that got me going with DS at Phaidon when he was the chief editor…that was before he was with Magnum, which was before he started his own publishing house which led to Aperture…hey, there are only about 25 people in this biz and they just keep moving around..smiling..

  2043. david alan harvey

    PAUL..

    hmmm,now why would Fuji do that? why not a whole new camera? and yes, where is a full frame affordable camera? is the full frame sensor really THAT much more expensive to build? i am sure they have it of course…but like all tech stuff, they bring it out slowly so we buy it all in the proper marketing sequence…

    yes yes to your last comment…THE PERFECT DIGI CAMERA

  2045. Mike R

    MW, yes, the X100 is the most hyped camera that I can remember. The draw for many is the rangefinder framelines i.e. a small Leica. I’ll be interested to see a full review but I’ll probably stick with my film Leica.

  2050. Paul

    Michael Kircher…
    D3s sensor inside fm3a or fm2? Is it really that complicated to create? Or what about Leica pulling out the good old minilux fixed 40mm lens camera and chucking in a M8/9 sensor.

  2053. marcin luczkowski

    After a few years making of huge money with digital revolution, the most important brands should start thinking about photography again.
    Full frame not expensive and small camera?? Much better is making a pure money. Isn’t it?

    Well, I am M6 user in love, but when I think what Leica do last time, all I can say is F..k Leica, I prefer GF1.
    Viva photography, f..k expensive brands.

  2054. david alan harvey

    PAUL…MICHAEL

    i have not seen Panos’ latest Venice….does this include the original Venice work or just all new? the pages i saw seemed to be all new ….i was hoping the boy would wait and get it all together in one book carefully planned…but “carefully planned” will only make you smile if you think about it with Panos…in any case, as you know , i have been a huge supporter of Panos all along when he was driving a tow truck and shooting Venice in between flat tires on the freeway….somebody should go back and pick up on the thread right here when Venice was born…it did happen it a couple of comments right here….we are still trying to decide here whether or not we will do a Burn imprint ..be our own publishers….with Blurb of course everyone is their own publisher which is both good and bad….

  2055. andrew b.

    Paul/David
    From what I’ve read teh sensor that will be in the X100 is the Fuji APS-C sensor that is a couple years old, but they have customized the micro lenses over each pixel to match the 23mm lens that will be on the body. Supposedly will reduce the shading effect to the side of each individual pixel…

    For me it’s attractive because of the viewfinder and form factor (not gigantic like the 5DII). Remains to be seen if it will be better than the GF1…

    I got the ultimate photographers backhanded compliment yesterday…”your camera takes such good pictures!”. And she was so sincere, so I just smiled and said “yes, it will do a lot of things”. Wanted to say that’s like telling a chef that his cookware makes wonderful meals. While having the right ool makes things easier (sometimes) and allows possibilities lessor tools might not (sometimes), it’s the eye….

  2056. dq

    re: the fuji x100 — seems like it will be better than the GF-1 in some respects — sensor is 50% larger, low light performance will be better, shoots faster (so what), HAS A BUILT IN viewfinder which looks like it’s smartly designed…
    negative: no interchangeable lens! boooo.

  2057. eva

    Well, I have Panos’ latest book, but not the other Venice one.. and I’ve told him that this one is nice.. but he needs a BOOK, he’s got the pictures, it’s a pity if they don’t come in a porper book..

    Ok, Panos.. feel free to kick me now.. hoping the sales won’t go down the drain.. but gotta say how it is..

  2059. david alan harvey

    ANDREW B…DQ

    yes, it is going to be hard to beat the GF1…the GF2 sure did not do it….price up on the GF1..for once i was smart and bought a new GF1 like the day before the GF2 available..price down to $500. i think…now 1k…old camera doubles in price after new version comes out..hmmmmmm

  2060. dq

    Those Gf-1s were $300 !!!! via Amazon a few weeks ago, just before they were discontinued. Sooooo frustrating that Panasonic pulled the plug on those, frustrating and infuriating both…

    Any idea, Mr. H, when NatGeee-oh will be running your stories?

    Are you shooting both stories with combo of leica, gf1 and nikon?

    Do you do the postproduction on your images for NatGeo or is that up to their photo gurus? Do they massage the files to give them the DAH look, with the deep blacks and kodachromish contrast? Or is that somehow already in the files which you provide?

    ——

    ANYONE who has published a Blurb book — is the paper decent? Compared to iPhoto books — printing and paper, better or worse. Thank you!

  2061. Gordon Lafleur

    Mike R

    Thanks, just checked it out. There are downloadable images on the official x100 site which look promising though it is hard to tell from them as they are mostly shot at iso 200.

    mw
    The big appeal of the camera for me is not the promised image quality so much as the the eye-level viewfinder. Image quality wise, the micro4/3 cameras are spectacular, as is pretty much any entry level dslr these days.
    I picked up an “open box” Olympus EP1 at Best Buy last month for $249 (with the kit lens) and was blown away with the quality of the files, and the kit lens. I’d get along fine with it, but continually holding the camera at arms lengh, or constantly taking reading glassed off and on is a bummer.
    I sold the EP1 to a friend and am looking forward to the x100 and the new viewfinder.

  2063. Paul

    David…
    pasted here right from page 29 Holiday Lights; Panos own words:

    “just published a new blurb book with over 200 new/never published before venice work/latest work ..complimented with POETRY FROM AN AMAZING POET (JASON F.WALL)
    THANK U ALL FOR THE SUPPORT…

    As I previously commented on Burn I´ve been enjoying Pano´s new book. It´s true Panos style!
    David, funny thing is each time I open the book I think of you, I am sure you would of told him to edit the photos a little! The only negative point for ME is, I don´t want him to print the next book onto a page with a black background, I´m having to turn all the halogen lights in my living room to view the images clearly. We are talking about six 55 watt halogen ceiling lights and three 60 watt tungsten lamps!! The images at least in my copy are dark!

  2064. Paul

    I feel a little sorry for Fuji, I think people are expecting too much from a totally new design. Panasonic were really lucky in that the GF1 came out nice and quietly without the same incredibly high expectations everyone is hoping for with Fuji.

  2065. Paul

    David…
    Whilst skyping yesterday you suggested a couple of family essays published on Burn which I´ve found and in process of studying… as usual i kept on searching and exploring and I think I found the Panos thread you were talking about this afternoon. In other words how Venice begun…

    ok, i might have a good idea….but, i will leave it up to you to decide right here and now…

    it is based on the premise that all of us on this forum are struggling with how best to showcase your work…yes, we do a lot of talking and there is some brilliant writing here always, but why not really “show our photographic hand” in the most provocative way…

    this idea also does not conflict at all with my own photographic work which will flow right along with yours…that has always been the potential danger of this forum, that either i would “lose” myself to you by sacrificing my work to on-line time, or you would get lost in the same way by not shooting because you were spending too much time here…..i think this idea solves both potential problems…it should also ramp up creative vibes for all..

    so, here is my idea:

    i give out short assignments or projects….on an individual basis …..maybe i choose two or three photographers per week or per month or whatever…at the end of the week or month (we can decide) each photographer presents this work right here for us all to see and critique…

    for example, i ask Erica if she has time to shoot 5 portraits of people next week that somehow reflect the election process in the U.S.; i suggest to Glenn that he give us whatever he can on a “ringer” bar life; find out if Katia can follow just one of her “lost” teenagers for a few days to see a parent; have Rafal do something very special with his wife and new son; see if Marcin can photograph his wife with her work;make Panos stay in one place for a week, like Venice Beach, and do self-portraits either literally or figuratively….

    these are just examples, perhaps not viable ones, but i think you get the idea…and the photographer would either agree or modify or choose not to do it or whatever…but each assigned photographer would go out for several days, personal time permitting, and do something as per announced to this group in advance..sure, the pressure would really be “on” because we would all be waiting and, more pressure still, we would all know the intent of the photographer in advance…….anybody up for this??Published on May 1, 2008 by david alan harvey.

  2066. Carsten

    I did the same thing as David and bought a second GF1 days before the GF2 came out… bargain price for an amazing camera. Shame they discontinued it, but I should be set for quite a while :)

    On the topic of books, I know a lot of people here like and use Blurb, but I can also highly recommend adoramapix.com for books. I gave them a try recently and the paper, binding and finish are absolutely gorgeous. Great user interface too.

  2067. Mike R

    Gordon, yes, the viewfinder is the main appeal of the X100. I bought an EP1 and hated it: the image quality was good but the focussing was way too slow and the menu system abysmal.
    If the focus and shutter actuation are rapid I think it will sell well.

    Dq, the fixed lens is almost mandatory for the dual viewfinder to be able to work efficiently.

    Paul, don’t feel too sorry for Fuji: if the camera fails they have only themselves to blame. they have hyped the camera for six months, thus raising expectations.

    Mike.

  2069. amelie

    anyone who has written me lately at my Burn magazine e-address needs to be patient please…that mailbox is temporarily dysfunctional…we are trying to fix it now…has something to do with the Burn server….we might be on overload….

    does this include the submissions form for the selected photographs and essays?

  2070. michael kircher

    DAH… I picked up Panos’ original Venice book, not the latest. It’s amazing. And remind me to tell you my initial thoughts upon opening it. Ironic to say the least!

    Cheers.

  2076. kurtlengfield

    Since we seem to be on the topic of self publishing, I find it interesting that Randy Olson and Melissa Farlow have a blurb book out. I wonder if it is a sign of the times that two photographers of their reputation are self publishing. I would have thought that they would have had no problem getting one of the publishing houses behind them.

    http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/1986154

  2081. a civilian-mass audience

    Amazing links…
    Thank you ALLL…but I think …we all move out and in the … righteous aisle…
    where there is a tent …
    bring your cameras,your brains,your souls and your drinks…
    yeap, we will keep struggling…the righteous way:)))))))))))))))

  2088. a civilian-mass audience

    JOGHNYG…I am a fan…BRAVOOOO!!!
    but you know what I love more …about you JOHNG…you are a good listener…!!!

    IMANTS…thanks for the image…I use it as my wallpaper…!
    but you should have warned me…:)))

    P.S…I am the “but” civilian…oime…Viva LOS/LAS BURNIANS !

  2097. a civilian-mass audience

    I know…but I guess he is sleeping…he is in the other side of the Universe…
    so,I cross my toes…and I only hope that just for the sake of it…I can hit the 3000 comment
    BUT…
    there are so amazing links over here…included the latest …
    and I have to be righteous
    therefore we can stop to 2099…:)))

  2098. a civilian-mass audience

    it was just one comment…no problem…it’s up there now
    didn’t mean to wake you up…But I guess in this tent…you can hear almost everything…:)))
    thank you though

  2099. eva

    Civi.. dunno in Greece.. but over here, from 2000 to 3000 there’s a thousand in between.. you really want to do that???

  2101. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…I can do 900 in a click…cause I am MASSSSSSSSSSSSSS…!

    P.S…well, IMANTS at least got 2100…hmmm…:)
    back to righteous

Comments are closed.