(interview with Alec Soth , above, coming soon…..stuff you never knew)

I have had writers block for the last three weeks, yet I am not a writer. Which is no doubt  the whole of the problem. I can do ok with pictures on demand. Not so with  pen and paper. Surely it isn’t that I don’t  have much to tell you. I have too much to tell you, yet i need to be brief. I will get right to the point.

For those of you who have been readers here for awhile, you probably figured out a long time ago that this is a pretty humble operation here at Burn. While we are in popular terms a “wildly successful new brand” , we make no money and our staff is still an all voluntary army.  Now mind you we are not even trying to make money. Yea invest in us!  Smiling.  Seriously, all of us value independence and freedom more than money. So we are not looking for bosses. Yet we are looking for support. Sure, uh huh, right dude, who gets money without a boss?

In fact we are ninjalike action heroes because we have  generated some income from thoughtful donors to pay for our $15,000 Burn/Emerging Photographer Fund grant with funds donated through the not for profit Magnum Foundation. Subscription donations help to pay photographers for work published here. These are donors who simply believe in what we are doing.

Yet indeed, we are scrambling to make things work . There are two possible solutions. First , is to accept advertising. While I have zero aversion to advertising and have done ad photography, I think that for Burn right now we might just be able to survive without it and therefore have a really clean slate for just doing what we want to do and with a particular kind of unencumbered cred. This audience will basically make the decision for funding/donations  based on the steps we are making.

So you may ask, what steps?

We want to make more of what we did in the last two weeks. Financially and psychologically supporting an emerging photographer like Egyptian  Laura El Tantawy in Cairo and at the same time commissioning an exclusive for Burn essay by Paolo Pellegrin. Both photographers with unique styles and both looking at Cairo.

Both with equal pay, equal artistic control, and one time use only photo rights..

My stated initial goal of Burn was to combine the iconic with the emerging iconic. We have done it now with original photography from both and an exclusive here.

Next we go to firebrand Bruce Gilden who will be in Haiti during elections  and a soon to be assigned young  Haitian photographer to shoot a parallel story with Bruce.  Followed by Alec Soth (shown above during my interview this week)  and and an emerging photographer chosen by him. Our aesthetic interests will know no bounds and we will actively seek all individual styles of work.

Simultaneous with these projects sponsored by Burn and the readers of Burn will be a special corporate commission presented by BD who sponsored James Nachtwey with his TB essay published on Burn in 2010. BD will now sponsor in Russia both Nachtwey and emerging star of Russian descent,  Alisa Resnik. Frankly we would welcome this type of selected corporate sponsorship for any of the above projects as well. We feel we will get them , but I am willing to bet on it in the meantime with our readers support. BD was happy with Burn as a platform before, and have come back this time with additional support for a talented young photographer.  So this is a model. Again all of this original work both by Nachtwey and by Resnik will be featured first here on Burn with a proper drum roll preceding.

All of the above projects highlight four new emerging photographers as well as the established legends.

I think we have taken a large step forward today without losing any of our identity. We just want to do things here on Burn, and upcoming in print magazine  Burn 02,  that are simply cool.  Serious.  Fun. Imaginative,  and flat out informative as well. If it is  not rewarding to do and we are not giving you something unique, then we fold the tent and go have a beer. Already in our short history I think we have helped a few young photographers, respected a few icons, and made  a lot of new friends along the way.

Now one of the things I have noticed about creating space, funds, and a platform, is that while some receive , some feel left out. This is a conundrum with no real solution except  I can say that I will do my best to pass things around. I cannot support everyone. My honest hope here is only to set an example so that others better equipped to do this sort of thing than I , will take on the responsibility and the effort. I am as accessible as I can be to photographers with ideas. At the same time, I do have my own photography and books to do, so there are times when I disappear into my own shooting as I am about to do in Rio. So all patience is appreciated.

We are struggling in the good old fashioned way. Times when real things happen for the right reasons. Feels like such a time.

-dah-

592 thoughts on “righteous (as in bob marley def)….”

  1. Kenneth Dickerman

    The future sounds very good. The idea of pairing emerging and iconic photographers and presenting them in the same light, well, that is really fantastic and really giving due respect to both entities. I hope the future is long and bright for this endeavor. And as you say, if it stops being fun, “fold up the tent and grab a beer.”

  2. Framers Intent

    Sounds like a brilliant plan for the future, David. I can’t wait to see Burn grow. Think it will take a combination of time and continuing the good work. I’m preaching to the master here when I say nothing sells as well as good work. Props for doing all this, to all the Burn team.

  3. sam harris

    Yes David!

    you keep on inspiring with your vision – just to think of how burn evolved… and it don’t stop.
    as Kenneth has said the pairing of icons & emerging is fantastic. fresh.
    exciting times…

    as for ad’s, i think we all would understand if they had to appear, however if they can be avoided that would be so much better… waiting to hear about bonfire?

    Massive Thanks to David, the Burn Crew & all the Burnians…

  4. Jeff Hladun

    Wow David – this is heart-pounding news!!! Best wishes on this exciting, ambitious direction.

    Also…I’m elated to see Gilden is going back to Haiti. May I make a suggestion? The Cubans have been carrying the yeoman’s work with medical aid in the field on the island, yet the American media has intentionally kept silent on this. Perhaps a Burn essay on the involvement of Cuban doctors will serve to embarrass the West into quickening their aid. Wouldn’t it be great if Burn could get in front of social change this way?

  9. Gracie

    sounds great DAH, pretty soon you’re going to be sooo famous you’ll be unreachable.
    more power to cloning!! YAY!!

  10. a civilian-mass audience

    “May you grow up to be righteous, may you grow up to be true. May you always know the truth and see the lights surrounding you. May you always be courageous, stand upright and be strong…”
    Bob Dylan

    MAY we ALL be BURNED in a righteous way…i suggest to keep struggling…I am a civilian that’s all I know…
    hmmm…we are All under the same tent…for now…just have your beer close by…I have my ouzo:)))

    P.S …a tech question: What camera did MR.HARVEY use to take this picture above?
    the winner will receive a “room ” upgrade …in the tent…!!!

  11. eva

    Civi.. I know I know.. a PHOTOcamera!!

    Ok, now going to read what Bob Marley has to do with a tent.. or Bob Dylan.. and a room upgrade.. there must be a fire BURNing under that tent..

  14. eva

    Fire burning indeed.. I’m gonna love this, ’cause there will be great photography from both the iconic and the emerging.. and if the emerging is native from the country s/he shoots in/about that’s a plus.. we’ll get an inside view which some times is lacking.. will be very very interesting to see.. yes.. gonna love it! Great, really great news and direction this BURN thing is taking, thanks to all involved who make it possible!

    So I second Panos “geez….. im in” … following and supporting, a buck here and one there, whenever.. as long as it’s fun and as long as it lasts..

  16. a civilian-mass audience

    MyGRACIE…bring the ice-cream…today,we celebrate(actually every day we celebrate here…)
    ok…

    I LOVE YOU ALLL and of course I will be back…

  17. jorge prat

    David, excelent news! In my case I would happyly suscribe to Burn, like a year suscription for example. Burn has given me a lot all this years. In fact much more than i’m aware of, and much more than any other photo magazine that I had paid in the past. So it’s fair to paid. Maybe you can give like a premium suscription, including a copy of the printed Burn mag. I don’t know, just thinking on a businnes model to help support Burn. Maybe you can even do a small survey with all actual readers and see what they think about a paid suscription (volunteer for example)

    Hope this helps.

    cheers
    Jorge

  18. david alan harvey

    JEFF..

    well yes i have been impressed with Cuban doctors and their deployment into various catastrophic events long before i even went to Cuba…this really is a good story…however, seems to be more of a word story in its magnitude, but if a photographer approached me with a good Country Cuban Doctor essay idea, smiling, i would go for it i am sure…thanks for thinking

    GRACIE…

    i enjoy doing these things because it is part of my nature…but i would rather do them unobserved behind the scenes…the nature of all of the new media makes that not quite possible at this point, but the sooner i can turn this all over to a couple of 25 yr olds, i will do it….it is funny, i live like a hermit at least half the time….but the net makes it seem like i am “out there”……i am not “out there”…i am hiding in the dunes and the woods watching rabbits forage…a funny new world….

  20. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    really really good things evolve…they do not go away but they meld into other good things…i hate monuments….i love spontaneous art….Burning Man in the desert is great!!..Burn does not have to last a long time to have done its job…matter of fact, that would be really really bad if Burn lasted too long…so let’s enjoy this moment…..a flame lights the way, then goes away…..

    cheers, david

  21. eva

    David..

    You know, I think I’ve been lucky in my life.. always had dreams.. some fade, some become true.. and new ones find me along the way.. nothing more I could wish for.. as long as it lasts.. :)

  22. bob black

    DAVID/BURN:

    no time to write, really…on the mend….but, so glad to see this new incarnation too….:))))….anxious to see Paolo’s work….and will be happy to see Alec’s collaboration (yo, alec, i’ll collaborate with you: here is a pitch: let’s do an essay on a book, our visual variation! ;)) )….and all good things….

    btw, you’ll see a collaborative event soon David, something that has NEVER been proposed before for Burn, but i gotta keep the secret until we offer it, but if even it is not accepted, you’ll (and the folks) will not have seen anything like it as yet (which is why we’re hoping burn digs it :)) )…something about Russia too, but completely different that what is usually offered up :)))))…..but, patience….it’ll happen before you come to town :))….and we can chat then….

    and i promised, once i’m healed, i’ll get you the 2 new young photographers (they’re ready) and my landscape dream/poem to you….just no must ‘focus’ on something more important….

    sight is more than just an eye(s)…i had wanted to write during that discussion 1 week ago, but i’ll just wait to put my money where my mouth (and eye) is :))..

    so happy for burn and for all…hoping to be back in 10 days or so with more words, writing, and of course the pictures…

    hugs
    b

  23. bob black

    or better, dave, i’ll do a project with you as the iconic photog, we’ll do a variation on Dunes..i’ll shoot it when i’m in Foley beach in august (foley vs. obx :)) )….

    btw, an idea for printing books under the BURN moniker: how about collaborative books??….

    LBM has done a brilliant job with their book and zine publishing (i own 4 of their books and zines)…but BURN could do something unique: a series of artists books with collaboration (hey Alec, don’t steal this idea, it’s mine for BURN ;)))…

    jsut a thought under medication :)))

    hugs
    b

  24. bob black

    for example:

    book 1: laura/paolo: egypt
    book 2: Venice/Harvey (venice)
    book 3: kusters/sobel:
    book 4: vink/agnes d: indochine

    book 100: black/d’agata (the eye)

    etc ;)))

    hugs
    b

  25. a civilian-mass audience

    from Bob MARLEY to BOB BLACK and back to BURN…BBB what not to BE !!!
    wishing best energy to ALLL and to you BOBBY…
    I am going up in the mountains…BUT I will be back…
    as SAMMY said…
    “Massive Thanks to David, the Burn Crew & all the Burnians…”

    I am the proudest civilian of the world…

  28. a civilian-mass audience

    and since nobody got the tech question right…

    the winner is the BURN CREW…who are working behind the tent…
    My respect and my love to all of you…

    Antios LOS/LAS BURNIANS

  29. jared iorio

    David, Jeff —

    There’s nothing new under the sun… For the past month I’ve been trying to get at a Cuban clinic in a town 15 minutes from where I live outside of Jacmel, Haiti. They’re the cream of the crop from what I hear. They don’t wait for people to come to them sick, but travel into the countryside doing home visits and checking on all the kids, which not many of the other clinics do. I’ll let you guys know if I ever get the access (and the pictures).

  32. andrew b.

    Moving, evolving, growing…all good action words. Love it.

    CIVI, the tech question – looks like the GF1 – you can see him taking the picture in the picture…..kind of fun. Didn’t answer sooner because I thought someone said it…oh well, will sit back here in coach without the room upgrade and drink ouzo with all…upgrades aren’t always all they’re cracked up to be.

    Who knows/can tell me how places like Aperture, that sell limited prints on line, do fulfillment? Is it all manual? Do they have prints already, or do they print on demand? If you were to print on demand, is there a way you could ensure the artist the quality control necessary?

    Another topic – has anyone ever taken one of the magnum workshops, where they have multiple masters and you pick the one to work with, like the one in Toronto as part of Contact?

    BOB – hope things are going well with the eye…please keep us updated – many good vibes being sent your way.

  33. eva

    Andrew.. to your 2nd question (workshops), a friend of mine has, came out with great work and loved it.. I’d do without hesitation.. if Toronto wasn’t on the wrong side of the planet..

  34. bear cieri

    David,

    The future appears to be bright for Burn, yet I sense a bit of timidity in your writing. It seems you are wavering a bit – and rightly so – from the weight of all the responsibilities of this new medium. It is a tremendous endeavor. I commend you and all that volunteer their efforts and hope you find solace in the fact that you have inspired a tremendous number of creative minds by forming a community that embraces a new approach to creating, assessing and sharing their work. Kudos!

    Perhaps a suggestion for funding proposed stories and collaborations. http://www.kickstarter.com and http://www.emphas.is There is a huge community willing to pay for quality projects up front. This may not be news to any who visit the site but it is worth checking out. I’m willing to help out in any way I can.

    Be well,
    Bear

  35. david alan harvey

    BEAR…

    what a great name..Bear..i guess with a name like that, perhaps my writing does seem timid..smiling…i sure do not know where you see wavering however..thought i was being flat out bold, perhaps too much so…maybe you sense that this whole effort would be too much for me to bear alone (no pun intended) and if that is what you mean absolutely yes…mine is only out here as an example, not as the be all end all solution….i am going out to take pictures…others with more expertise than i will move this initiative forward….yes we have supported both Kickstarter and Emphasis projects here already…we could set up our own version of that , but i think a more subtle approach fits my style better…we will see….yes Bear come and see us…we welcome all suggestions and help of any kind…many many thanks in advance…

    cheers, david

  37. Paul

    Exciting times for Burn… better to Burn out than fade away!

    Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.
    Benjamin Franklin

    Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.
    Henry Ford

    The progress of an artist is a continual self-sacrifice, a continual extinction of personality.
    T. S. Eliot

  38. bob black

    CIVI/ANDREW :)))

    thank you….feeling the healing vibes…i dont want to go into detail at the moment, as i think we should all be focus on DAVID/BURN and the good changes…but things are stabilized with meds…next step is when i come off the meds and see how the eye adjusts before i see optho/surgeon…fingers crossed…it’s been a profound and unnerving 12 days, but as I told Teru K, i’m a believer and an optimist…and i don’t want to freak people out (yet ;)))…..more importantly, , i have much work to do with with pictures and some young photographers…and my long delayed 2 projects for dah….but, i promise a full counting once the next 10 days have past….so, forget my problem for now, and let’s be focus on BURN with fevor and flame :))))…

    ANDREW: a number of lurkers/commentators have been part of the MAGNUM/CONTACT workshop…you can write Marc D too, he did his with Chris A…you can also write me as i’ve spent a ton of time with those guys, talking, helping, etc…plus: you can toronto :)))…and whiskey ;))….i don’t know who the teachers are, but it’s a good gig…and you’ll get to meet mrs. b…buyou’ll work your butt off :))))…which is always good…

    gotta run, will write in a weeks time or so….

    hugs
    b

  39. Thomas Bregulla

    It is amazing to see burn emerging. Wow. Great and good luck.
    I’m not so sure, if my work as producer of content can follow the new beat, but I am sure I can as viewer and supporter/donator.
    No matter, how I am perceiving it, burn is always a hatchery of ideas, learnings experience and new insights for me. It helped me to see differently and to photograph in another way.
    Thank you for that and keep it up :)

    It is an honor to be part of this community.

  41. eva

    Thomas.. I like the mood of the color (and shudder at the noise of the last pic… but it does fit) .. wouldn’t convert.. but of course that could change if I’d actually see them bw… so just skimming through them once and fast (dinner time here), I’d say remove the one bw..

  42. Herve

    For my 2 pennies, Thomas, I agree with Eva, the BW is out of place, and IMO, #10 blur too. Also, #2 seems a bit weak, especially in the context of color tone/mood, but it’s only me.

  43. Paul

    Thomas…
    In my opinion or you add more B/W or you remove that one image. :)
    my favs are 1, 2, 3, 4in colour :)!!, 8, 12, 15, 16maybe?, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24.

  44. mw

    Thomas, my two cents is to deal with this yourself or maybe to find one person whose aesthetics you trust to help you with this. I’d be surprised if David thinks it’s a good idea to toss this out for everyone. Kind of like the committee making choices we were talking about the other day. No, be confident in your vision and present it when you’re ready.

  45. david alan harvey

    THOMAS

    Michael is right…in general it is a bad idea to edit by committee…but the main reason not to spill the beans here is just that…by the time you publish this, and this was one of the few actual assignments endorsed by me, everyone will have already seen it…you lose the surprise element..i did end up taking a quick look after i realized you had posted a link here and i do think, even from a cursory look, that this is going to be terrific…let me know if you really want to leave the link up..if you change your mind, i will take it off…but the decision is yours to make…

    cheers, david

  46. david alan harvey

    THOMAS

    good decision..but if you change your mind,or someone changes it for you, put it back…again, committee editing aside, let’s just blow ’em away with a strong showing of work nobody here has seen…

  47. Thomas Bregulla

    DAVID,

    thank you. We will :)
    it is not complete yet, and my “season” starts in a few days again. There are some journeys to do, and I already had an idea for a spin-off of this. The idea with the “Business-Traveller Magazine” is growing.

  48. Ross Nolly

    “i have been impressed with Cuban doctors and their deployment into various catastrophic events”

    They have done wonderful work i Timor Leste too…

  50. andrew b.

    Eva…thank you for the link! now I’m wondering if I’d even be able to participate in a workshop like that….

    Bob, will be up that way sooner or later no matter what, will make sure you know ahead of time…look forward to seeing you and Mike and marc again….

  51. andrew b.

    Michael K

    I saw that that discussion (Chip’s original post, and Damon’s response in Lens – http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/damon-winter/ )…

    Not sure what I think. Part of me interprets the “mask, alter, remove, add” edict as intended to ensure that the photograph is not manipulated (key elements removed, or added, like taking out a person). In my day job, I constantly have to balance the *intent* of rules and regulations with the actual implementation of them – sometimes, the “letter of the rule” is not in symmetry with the intent. But I suppose there is a slippery slope there as well.

    I wonder…if Winter had taken a Holga, and shot the entire series with it on film, would there be the same type of uproar? If not, and if the hipstamatic app essentially just simulates digitally what you’d get with a Holga and film, then I fail to see the reason for the ruckus beyond the “rule interpretted for the rule’s sake”.

    But hey, I’m not a PJ ethiscist, so obviously your actual mileage may vary.

  54. Justin Smith

    Any Burnians with first-hand experience with the Olympus E-420? I’m a bit budget-conscious at the moment, and there is about a $100 difference with the Nikon D40 (I’m a small SLR kinda guy).

    Thanks,

    Justin

  55. Justin Smith

    BTW, I recommend the Jolicloud OS for netbooks for those folks using online apps. I’m currently posting from a friend’s laptop with a toasted hard drive using the Jolicloud live CD – so far. I’m pretty impressed :-)

    It’s basically Ubuntu, optimized for the limited screen size of netbooks. You can install alongside Windows and choose to boot into Jolicloud.

  58. eva

    Andrew.. to grow and step forward, you (me, just about everyone) need to get out of that comfort zone.. now mind you, I have no idea about where you are and where you want to go or if this workshop would be the right one, and it’s none of my business anyway, but if you don’t try you won’t know.. (that’s what I keep telling myself..)..

  59. Imants

    Ist image…..” One of the most famous pictures of Verdun: a French soldier hit during an attack. But the picture is not true. It is a still, taken from a French movie made in 1927-1928.”….. “The dramatic picture above was extracted from a movie frame,”
    .
    .
    2nd image…….. staged image????..colours aka image treatment

    .
    .
    http://www.etrouko.com/iman.htm

  60. Mike R

    Justin, I’ve not used either the Olympus or Nikon models you mention but would recommend you look at the system of each, particularly the lens range, if you intend to keep the camera and build a system.

    Mike.

  65. david alan harvey

    MICHAEL KIRCHER

    yes i do not see the big deal either…photographers employ many things to get a “look”..i.e.i use med format and a normal lens and a wide aperture to have a shallow depth of field “look”…we all do something to give us either texture or a feeling that is indeed a tech choice..so i do not see the difference between employing an app on a cell phone and deciding on b&w film and a long lens or whatever…what is the difference?

  66. andrew b.

    Justin
    sent you a note via the SLPS board – couldn’t find your email address. Let me know if you don’t get it.

    Bob/Marcin
    great idea on the assignments – kind of like back to the good old days, but evolved….I came to Road Trips just after all the assignments got handed out, or however that happened….

    EVA
    Very true, I know and want to push myself out of the comfort zone…my musing was actually a practical question – with only 15 spots available at such a large event, would I have a chance at all to even make it into the group… :)

  67. david alan harvey

    MARCIN

    i need iso under 400….

    ANDREW B

    i taught up in Toronto i guess year before last and i probably will be up there this spring as well….these workshops are pretty much the same as any other workshop with the exception that during that particular week you can choose mentors..of course you can always choose mentors anyway and you will only be with one…but, perhaps the advantage here is that there are group presentations by all of the classes and mentors , so you do see what the others are doing…these Contact/Magnum classes do not have the sort of down home style atmosphere i normally prefer, but has more of a photo fest ambiance …lots of people to meet and greet and learn from…all in all a good time and you do have the total advantage of the Bob Black hospitality….that alone is worth the price of admission!!

  68. marcin luczkowski

    DAVID,

    Necessity is the mother of invention here: Necessity is the mother of brand choice.

    and if I would like to be mean I could copy and paste some sentence…
    ehhh I will copy and paste a sentence :)))))))

    david alan harvey
    February 14, 2011 at 4:33 am

    PAUL..

    all of the Cuba book is Velvia 50…including my one and only vertical street scene(appears in both books)…the more recent work in DivSoul is Velvia 50 and the earlier is Kodachrome.

  69. david alan harvey

    MARCIN

    i am 100% totally confused by your point…what point are you trying to make? are we once again lost in translation? i am only saying if prefer low iso film…what did you think i was saying?

  70. mw

    Not sure where I stand on this. We’re talking hard news photojournalism, not books or travel section. I guess people can use whatever their publication allows, but historically, they never sent pj’s out with Holga’s to cover the fire or the train wreck. Never encouraged overly artsy photos with radical dof effect either. Just visual equivalent of 5 w’s. But I guess since there’s little effort at objective reporting these days, it’s pretty much all opinion (usually poorly informed opinion if not outright purchased opinion), why hold the photographers to any kind of professional standards either?

  73. david alan harvey

    MW…

    well , yes you do make a good point in that sense…hmmmm, well Damon said that he thought that because the soldiers themselves were using cell phones to document their own lives that he thought that he would do same thing for THIS PARTICULAR COVERAGE was appropriate…i buy that…and by the way, PJ’s do control the “look” all the time with super long lenses, super wide lenses, camera remote traps, and all kinds of tech stuff to tell the “truth”…i guess this is one of those fine lines in the sand…sometimes i get frustrated with the righteousness of PJ’s on the one hand with stuff like this, but then they gang bang stories, leave when they are “over” for the news magazines etc etc…there are many lines one can cross, using a cell phone app seems like the least of them

  74. marcin luczkowski

    DAVID,

    Your patience to my mistakes is unbelievable.
    Meeting, yes, yes, when I will be reach we can meet in london. cheep fly tikets for me. Maybe will be some occasion for you. Magnum meeting or so.
    I would like to visit NY but nobody let me in.

  79. Paul

    Marcin…
    I´m sorry I also jumped too fast! Busy processing some digital images.
    BTW my G10 can´t shoot anything decent above 100 iso!! :))))))

  82. Justin Smith

    Imants, Mike R, Michael Kircher, Marcin, & Andrew B.:

    Thank you for your input – choosing that first dSLR ain’t easy ;-)

    Andrew B.: Thank you so much for your message – very good info. Sent a reply to your e-mail address.

  83. david alan harvey

    of interest to some of you who may be in the stock photography biz…definitely something to think about….for all of you , EVERYTHING that you have as a photographer is your archive..all other chit chat on a variety of subjects pales by comparison…your archive is your legacy and perhaps your income….so one way or another you must focus on its care and feeding..

    http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/report/2027044/magnum-photos-tagging-game

  84. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY

    assuming you knew/know “def” was/is for “definition” in my parlance and his interpretation of “righteous”…and oh yes, double entendre, Bob Marley is definitely def too …the most def of anyone out there by far…

  86. Paul

    Justin…
    A friend of mine bought a d40 when it first came out, he loves it. He´s always buying and selling cameras but the D40 seems to be the one camera that he´s never sold.

  89. Paul

    David…
    I haven´t seen the video Eva has linked yet, but from what I´ve learnt round here on Burn I´ve got a feeling D´Agata doesn´t follow anyone, only his own voice.

  91. Paul

    What do you do if your Doc tells you to start walking with one crutch because your foot won´t get any worse or any better at the moment?… I then keep on seeing Michael Kircher´s brilliant I-phone images on his blog and I complain to Eva I want a GF1 and she reminds me like all intelligent women (and BTW a highly talented photographer) I´ve got enough cameras… Well I go out at last for a walk with my camera.

  92. Justin Smith

    Kurt, thank you for your offer – I’m humbled by your generosity. I’ve sent an e-mail to the address on your website.

    -Justin

  96. Paul

    Panos…
    Been influenced/inspired by your book, went out and left my inner critic at home and tried my very best to be free with the camera!

  105. eva

    About Michael Ackerman.. there’s a video out there, on arte.tv.. saw it when it was screened, loved how he made a book kinda thing for a present, taping the prints glued on sheets together like a harmonica..

    Here are the links, German and French version, but I don’t know if it is the video I saw, Italy is not supported by/does not support arte.tv on the net:

    http://www.arte.tv/de/Kultur-entdecken/kuenstler-hautnah/2683620.html

    http://www.arte.tv/fr/Echappees-culturelles/art-et-maniere/Special—Xavier-Veilhan/2689762,CmC=2683620.html

  106. eva

    And about who influenced who.. funny thing is that both Ackerman and D’Agata have started photography at the same time.. with D’Agata perhaps starting a little bit erlier, but taking a break.. hard to say..

    Katia, absolutely yes about Anders Petersen.. have more books by him than anybody else..

  107. Paul

    mw…
    i love that second image, is that fog/cloud/steam really there or some trick from this app?
    Actually I´d love to see you work that image in your “signature colour style”, sort of like the wheel your names is linked to…

  111. Paul

    john gladdy…
    You may find this stupid but some of your portraits remind me of Anders Petersen’s work. All i’ve said maybe totally wrong as i’ve never seen any of his books just online images.

  113. panos skoulidas

    ;)…
    Ancient greeks used to believe in life after death in a unique way…u “survive” only if u leave art behind you..no money, no houses, no material bullshit…only art…
    “ysterofhmia”….thats all im trying to do…stay true to my heritage..i have no choice..
    thank u

  115. panos skoulidas

    “Art is the Proper Task of Life”
    Nietzsche

    Before Nietzsche died his Zarathustra book was read only by 5 people..
    One of them was his sister and his best friend…
    I mean think about it… Is it that important for anyone to see, like, buy your book?
    Not at all..
    zorba once said that the most important thing is what u do with your food..
    Food is energy.. Some transform it into Art and some into “excriments – shit” in the bathroom..
    Your choice, really…

  116. david alan harvey

    ALL..

    hey amigos, i got really good vibes about this current post….the beauty of it is if it fails, it is not a failure but an effort that just did not manifest itself…but hey we had fun, right? and we tried to do the right thing no matter how naive….but i think the authenticity of this effort and the support i have from the photographic community as well in a much much smaller way with the business community that i can maybe put two and two together….simple…i start with photographers rights, since the content starts here, and am equally cognizant of doing good business because that is our engine…the two not only do not need to be mutually exclusive but they both thrive if they are not…anyway, let’s see what happens…the whole thing is almost a game of sorts for me…i do not need or even want any money..i lead a humble non materialistic home life…my travels are out there and more excitement i could not take , but it all comes with the work and not with money….i like the house i live in and do not want to move up….i like my life just as it is…so my efforts here represent a natural course in the way i have always lived, and all the photographers out there know this… they know i am not going to do anything without looking out for their business rights and their artistic rights equally….why else would Roger Ballen come here? Or Nachtwey? Or Pellegrin and the dozens of young photographers who apply every month because Burn is now THE place to be published…hell, i want an essay on Burn..funny….anyway just talking…thinking…full moon out there over the dunes…just righteous…jus def

    cheers, david

  117. david alan harvey

    katia..

    oh yes i am a big Anders Petersen fan…and yes those two came from him….but Ackerman was teacher of d’Agata …and i think there are bad vibes between the two ….Anders of course does not have a bad vibe bone in his body…i spent a week with him when we were teaching concurrently and he is just a joy…actually i have taught with Ackerman and d’Agata as well…biggest ego Ackerman, second biggest ego d’Agata but hardly any and no ego at all Petersen…figures right?

    cheers, david

  119. sam harris

    DAH…
    kurtlengfield
    February 17, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    @Justin- I have anolder Nikon D200 DSLRs collecting dust on my shelf. Email if you want it, no charge, just pay it forward.

    KURT
    now that’s MOS DEF!
    wonderful – i love burn –

  120. mw

    i like the house i live in and do not want to move up…

    Or maybe you’ve just got a much better sense of “up” than most.

    Who was it said they’d rather wallow with the eagles than fly with the pigs? Whoever it was, not a bad mantra.

  127. sam harris

    DAVID

    would the icons and emerging shoot with or without connection to each other? sorry if i’ve missed that in your text… but whilst driving yesterday and mulling it over i thought how cool it would be if the icons also mentored ?? … just thinking out loud…

  134. sam harris

    Panos…

    i’m thinking about trying out blurb, before i start have you got any tips regarding syncing up colour/print quality etc.?

  137. Justin Smith

    Man, I’m completely floored (in a good way) by the generosity and sharing on Burn today. Kurt graciously offered his D200 to me, Panos is sharing his latest book (in full) with all of us, Michael K. is sending a battery to Panos – who is reciprocating with a hard copy of his book. Not to mention DAH, Anton, and everyone who shares their time and insight here.

    Good vibes all around. Burn is definitely a special place, and I am grateful.

  138. bob black

    i wonder if i should chime in about the Michael/Antoine debate….

    no fucking way, ….

    got personal relationships on that…and just have to say that the question (who taught who) is silly and unfortunate…..michael learned alot from others (as we all do) from Jem Cohen, from Petersen….from Sarah Moon….the thing is that is another (for me) silly photoworld game, ….and i won’t speak about egos….i like michael, respect him….i respect antoine, don’t know him other than via the work….first time i showed my own work in florida, some goof at Miami basel asked me, ‘so, bob, you studied with michael?”…i was like michael who….shit, giacomelli and moriyama were my photo heros…and then I saw Jem Cohen movie ‘smoke’ and saw Michael’s pics, i bought end time city, got depressed for 2 months (didn’t shoot) (this was in 2001)….and here, the whole time, i thought ‘no one is making pics like me! ;))))) (my own stupid ego)…..

    the thing is that style is a language and no one owns language, but the conveyance of thought, idea, rhythm is universal…and since pictures are defined by a box/machine, it is no wonder that so many photographers eventually ‘look’ similar….but michael’s work is very different from antoine’s work even if there is a ‘lexical similarity’…..

    but it does nothing to compare the 2, nor to say who taught who…both were taught by others, but learned from life, both shoot the way they shoot…..

    ego?….

    i know Teru, whose work was inspired by michael (as they’d met in albany and are friends), is the greater of all those angels, i mean for ego-less-ness…..

    and i know photographers the world who continually ape michael and antoine’s work and so be it…who cares…

    make the work that your hear sings and sinches and singes….and the better…

    the reason why i hate that shit is because people pick on appearance rather than look at the beast of the rhythm that drives the work….and that too bad if there’s something between the 2….

    photographs are not that important to fight over who is the greater…

    all vanishes….

    though the little one certainly devastates :))

    running away

    ego in tact ;))))))))

  139. bob black

    PANOS

    love that damn book….give me 2 weeks (big medical bill pending) and then it’s mine….would like it signed, is that possible?…or can i order directly through u?…let me know…i’ll be off computer nearly the whole rest of the next 5 days…., if u drop me a line…..that book is like Skoulidas’ version of Case History, Venice Style :)))

    hugs
    b

  140. panos skoulidas

    Sam
    Absolutely it’s about time to skype :
    Venice10001…

    Bob u get the book when u e-mail me your exact address..

    I’m still homeless , living on Kim’s mercy and SHE LOVES ME..
    and yes I will send u both (Michaelk and bobB a book which I’ll pay from my empty pocket..))
    That’s how BURN WORKS… period

  141. panos skoulidas

    Ok , Kim disagrees … She just told me I’m full of shit.. And I’m not homeless ..
    I’m her husband, she insists…
    So… Anyone wants need a free book send me address..
    U only have 24 hours..period

  142. panos skoulidas

    I’m such in a good mood that I would even send a free book to my ultimate hater Pete but I know he would get so insulted that I don’t even dare…
    Me? Do not dare? Oxymoron right?
    Well .. Let the “mean” ones boil in the water they boiled..
    And I’m trying to be nice..
    But are they? Trying..? To change?
    Nahhhh!
    Dinosaurs never change.. Someone told them that dying on time is a bliss!
    Sorry but I won’t be in your funeral..
    Why?
    Coz u will never realize that u r actually dead..
    And that against my “religion”
    Laughing

  143. Paul

    My wife says i’m deaf and I’ve heard def leppard but please can someone explain to me what is this ”def” you keep writing about?

  144. david bowen

    definitely definition derived ‘def’.

    word.

    love this post harvey – love the implications of wider interest from sloth, penguin and gild-one.. just brilliant stuff..

    panos – good book.. we have volume one and two.. must buy.

    bearly awake.. massive sun flare led to hope of northern lights and late, late night.. overcast night.. no light..

    time to shove more coal in the furnace, get that engine ticking over and crank up the scanner for another day of joy chipping away at my archive..

  145. david bowen

    and teaching and teachers?
    hmm..

    inspiration comes from life and love and everything..
    inspiration derived from other photographers can lead to derivative work..

    as a teacher of photography, my best students work quickly grows beyond what is possible to teach and into their own worlds.. i hope to inspire the best much less than they inspire themselves.

  146. eva

    Paul.. cool, awsome, amazing.. so I learnt yesterday, to me it was just short def of definition.. and now I go and see what ‘cognizant’ means..

  147. david bowen

    “Life is one big road with lots of signs. So when you riding through the ruts, don’t complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy. Don’t bury your thoughts, put your vision to reality . Wake Up and Live!”
    bob marley.

  148. eva

    Bob.. I see no bad in teaching, as long as it doesn’t mean preaching, and as long as it doesn’t lead to copying.. as simple as that..

  149. Ross Nolly

    Speaking of pigs… I’ve always liked Churchill’s quote “Always remember, a cat looks down on man, a dog looks up to man, but a pig will look man right in the eye and see his equal” :-)

  150. Ross Nolly

    I think the best teachers are more like guides. They coax you along, accompanied by the occassional kick up the arse when needed. And more importantly; don’t try to make you a clone of themselves.

  151. a civilian-mass audience

    I just returned from the mountains..and what do I see…?
    my vision is not my vision anymore…!!!
    I believe in ALL of you MyBURNIANS…
    it started back when BOBBY opened up his house, when MR.HARVEY
    left the key of the kibbutz hotel under the doormat…when JIMMY helped EMCD…when your civilian’s house
    had its first arrivals…and now KURT and MICHAELK and PANOS…and oime…yes…

    BURN IS THE PLACE TO BE…(you have been warned:)))

    cause it has “unlocked” our vision…and when there is a vision…there is a way…

    P.S…damnit…of,course i am the proudest civilian …DEFINITION…I love you ALLL

  153. a civilian-mass audience

    The pig and the chicken were on their way to breakfast, trying to decide what to have. When chicken said, ”Let’s have ham and eggs.” The pig then replied, ”That’s fine for you, it’s a small donation on your part, but it’s a total sacrifice for me.””

    …according to the European economic standards…I am a “PIGS” civilian…
    well…VIVA to ALLL…!!!

  154. Paul

    Bob Black…
    I don’t see anything unfortunate in writing about influences/teachers, has to better than talking about camera gear. And thank god you chimed in – hoping your eye is getting better, because you’ve pointed me towards Sarah moon who’s worked I had seen before but would of never thought had any influence on Ankermann without your help. But i can now see it!! Off to see who Jem Cohen is :))

  155. david bowen

    happy birthday ross..

    the biggest flaw i think teachers can have is to spend to much time talking about themselves.. standing in front of eager ears it could be a comfort of sorts i guess, although pretty boring.

    i learn’t more before i went to collage than i learn’t in collage – and probably took a year or two to get back to where i wanted to be after it all.. some teachers regarded themselves far too highly, despite the fact that their achievements were ridiculously modest.. teachers who went straight from education into teaching.

  161. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS
    …ROSSY is sleeping …we opened a big bottle of red wine and we had few beers…you can imagine:)

    P.S Hey,malaka,can you do the f word …hmmm…
    to look little more appealing…Like F@@@ or F!!!F**** … :))))))))))

  164. mw

    Wow… really nice stretch of comments, and related actions. Made me smile, even before coffee which is no mean feat.

    Paul, regarding the stock exchange shot, that ‘s just steam from a manhole cover. A grand new york photo tradition.

    Regarding the original post about the guy winning a pj contest using the iphone and hipstamatic, although I was unsure before using the software, now I’d probably agree with the naysayers. I shot that little essay on my lunch hour and the only processing I did was to resize for the web, so from conception to posting came in a little under an hour and a half. I’d say that whoever programmed that little app deserves a prize, but although it’s a great toy, it’s still a toy.

  166. Thomas Bregulla

    MW

    yes, the hipstamatic is a toy. So what?
    Stephen Shore used a toy camera for portraits.

    What reason should hold any serious photographer away from using the camera and make good pictures anyway?
    Just because anyone could?

    I don’t understand the naysayers…

  168. eva

    Just got the flyer in the mail with some exhibition infos, among them:

    ANDERS PETERSEN: From Back Home, at the National Museum of Photography, Bradford West Yorkshire, UK, until March, 27th

    ANTOINE D’AGATA: Ice, at Musée Nicéphore Niépce, Chalon-sur-Saône, France, until May, 15th

    PAOLO PELLEGRIN: Dies Irae, at Fondazione FOMA in Milan, Italy, until May, 20th

    At least one on the road.. free tickets are of course for the two I can’t attend..

  169. sam harris

    MW,
    well ok, maybe not one of your fav slick rick… but as for mr mos definitely – come on – The Ecstatic was/is an instant classic…

  171. mw

    Anyone can use a cookie cutter and get predictable results. But I got away from the original question, which was about photojournalism rather than other photography. I can kinda see it with the original conceit of the piece, that of mimicking what the soldiers were doing. But in general, no, I think the historical professional standards for photojournalism, basically the 5 w’s, should, for the most part, stand. Of course people can shoot whatever they want however they want, but that doesn’t mean it should be published as news. And this is all getting a bit schlocky. Consider that in addition to the award for using a toy camera, someone else won something for pictures swiped off of Google street view. Taken together, one could see a trend toward denigrating any kind of skill as an important component of photography. One need not even point and shoot, much less have any digital darkroom skill. Screen grabs are fine. Anyone can do it.

    Props to those who did it first though. Like Andy Warhol painting accurate representations of Campbell’s Soup cans and Brillo Boxes. It was an interesting conceptual breakthrough when he did it. After that it was as unimaginative as unimaginative gets, which is pretty much how I will describe using hipstamatic on the iphone from here on out.

  173. michael kircher

    MW…

    I would hardly call Damon Winter’s essay with the iPhone “unimaginative.” He is a true photojournalist using an app… or, if you will, a digital film choice, for his story. Much like past photogs chose velvia or kodachrome or Tmax before they left for work.

    What are your thoughts specifically regarding Winter’s response/argument? Are they flawed? In what way? Curious. thanks.

  174. david bowen

    as an aside – my facebook feed has exploded with uploads of hipstamatic snaps..
    i think, as michael w says – props for doing it first.. it has set his work conceptually above the gaggle of “PJ’s” covering the embedded story.
    already feels a little old though.

    i wonder if it becoming more difficult to set oneself apart from the masses in terms of PJ work.. these days so much is crowd or public sourced.. with increased risk the bbc journalist from the uk watches from the balcony, then sources visuals from local talent.. (as i think it will be in the future).

    perhaps there is much less scope for “making your name” in an embedded situation, with so many doing the same, and so new ways have to be discovered..
    next up – pinhole train crash.. HDR earthquake.. large format photos of a tv screen with the aftermath of an IED, (copyright whoever bothers to do it)

  175. david alan harvey

    PAUL

    def just means “cool” basically…does come from “definitely”…you can check it out by going to one of the hip hop dictionaries…i was using it as double entendre..def as in cool and def as short for definition…righteous in bob marley def is different than def as in religious righteous ..got it?

  176. david bowen

    to put in context – i do like the hipstamatic concept and think it is deserving of recognition..

    i’m not, nor have i ever been, a PJ though – it is probably for that crowd to dissect the meaning and significance of the award.

    google street view i can take or leave… lots of people have been finding interesting shots taken by the cars since it was first set up. i found it quite dull and, given the nature of the photographers task in capturing the photos, it probably was quite dull to shoot.

  177. mw

    Michael, as I said above, props to Winter for doing it first, or close enough. That, and the part about mimicking the way soldiers take photos makes it somewhat interesting and imaginative. But now that that’s been done, it’s gonna look pretty unimaginative for all who walk in his footsteps.

    And to the question of toys. Using the iphone and the hipstamatic requires no technical skill at all. Everything all the way through the processing is fully automatic. It is done by computer programmers. Of course objects in space type composition is still involved, but that’s far from being the whole of photography. And that’s pretty much the defining characteristic of a toy. Most of the important decisions are built in so that any child can play successfully play with it and have a good time. A real camera, on the other hand, and real processing, requires many, many choices which, although technology is involved at every step, result in giving the photographer the ability to share a unique vision.

    On my one hour iphone hipstamatic project yesterday, at one point I noticed about 10 young women (they were all blond and wearing black, looked like a fashion model school field trip) taking pictures of a skyscraper near ground zero. I took a picture of the same building. Likely, if each of us processed our pictures of the same thing according to our individual tastes, we would get 10 different aesthetic variations on the same scene. But if we all were using the iphone with hipstamatic, or any other toy, we would all get exactly the same picture.

  179. michael kircher

    MW…

    Interesting. I actually think the opposite…

    Creating a compelling image with a camera phone requires a great deal of skill precisely because you do not have the flexibility of a dSLR. No f stops, telephoto, ASA adjustment, shutter speed, lens filters, tripod, etc, etc… Now to create a decent photo essay with said camera phone requires even greater skill. A skill which I believe Winters demonstrated quite well. As you say, a child can indeed easily play with it and have great fun. But a child will not likely create compelling imagery. That takes skill. Experience. All of which can be applied to iphone or D3S or Holga or whatever.

    Anyway… cool conversation.

  180. david alan harvey

    MW

    still do not see much of a problem with veracity when it comes to Damon work…nobody seems to be able to come up with any reason why the pictures are not “true”…they are just as true as any other pictures all using some sort of “reality” changing tech..nobody here complaining (i am not) about super photoshop or heavy darkroom with Petersen, d’Agata, Ackerman, Pellegrin?? all four of those photogs (and i could name dozens more) rely on heavy tech for their “look”..Damon is pretty straight compared…

  181. Thomas Bregulla

    All,

    I am not a photojournalist and probably will not become one.

    However, I differentiate strongly between what does a machine do and what a person.
    If a PJ uses a Canon 1DsMkII in P-Mode – which happens – he does not need any skills, and everybody would agree it is PJ work. If the same person uses the hipstamatic app, some people start a discussion about skills. Hm – I cannot agree to this. It is still the photographer who decides what is in the frame, in what relationships things are to each other and such. The photographer not the machine makes the picture.

    For the Streetview thing – I take that as a provokation to start a discussion. If you apply all rules or ethics of photojournalism to those pictures, which are violated? The pictures are true, these scenes happened, etc. The only thing I would see is a kind of copyright violation, because those pictures were made by someone else and I am not sure if the driver could be called the photographer, as he was not pulling a shutter. The discussion is a good one.

    The discussion about the hipstamatic and the high values highly technically skilled photographers is a waste of time, because it will come – and go (soon), newspapers will print those pictures, and there will be more aesthetics involved.

  183. Kenneth Dickerman

    “make the work that your hear sings and sinches and singes….and the better…”

    like that bob, like it…

    interesting thing too. some work i love (usually a particular kind for awhile and then it might change or morph or progress or regress or evolve or…), some i dont. it’s like going through the magazines or books and saying “this is good” “this is crap.” well, at some point a pointless exercise. like with fiction, hey i like murakami and marquez but i never got into winterson….

    k

  184. mw

    David, apparently I’m not explaining myself very well. Although I thought I’ve twice explicitly stated that Damon’s work was imaginative and proper, that somehow doesn’t seem to be coming across. But speaking in general, I said what I said and although my mind is always subject to change, see no reason yet to change it in this case.

    And what I said is consistent with your point about your friends. They use sophisticated tools to create unique visions. If they all shot with the same toy, they’d all look exactly the same (content notwithstanding).

    Thomas, yes, unfortunately few people these days have any knowledge or understanding of historical journalistic ethics, hence the studies that show those who pay close attention to the news are often less well-informed than those who don’t.

    And Michael, you really think it requires more or as much skill to point-shoot-print than to make thousands of decisions along the way? Are you saying you think my one hour essay was without skill? No, I recognized how time of day would play with the camera’s capabilities and saw what hipstamatic was doing with color and shot accordingly, so yes, we can do things with toys that tourists probably can’t. But making the same circle with my dslr and processing it in the digital darkroom would have required a lot more skill and effort to produce interesting photos. If I don’t possess that skill, then I’m better off at noon on a sunny day with hipstamatic on a camera phone. If I do, then I will get much better pictures by making my own choices and using my own vision rather than that of anonymous programmers.

  186. Paul

    To put my point quite clearly if we suddenly found out Sally Mann used an iPhone to shoot her “immediate family” story and not an 8×10 view camera personally I wouldn´t give a damn because I am interested in the image. For me photography is about photos and cameras are necessary evil I have to buy and use to create images/photos with. Photography is a way of expressing our thoughts and feelings or does it matter if I write a beautiful poem with a Biro
    or Montblanc fountain pen?

  187. Justin Smith

    Eva, thank you for posting the Sally Mann link. I caught most of the segment on the radio yesterday, but was going to go back and listen to it in its entirety. Totally love her and her work :-)

    Also on NPR’s All Things Considered yesterday, a segment on David LaChappelle suing Rihanna (et. al.) over copying his look in one of her music videos: http://n.pr/ek2hbx

  189. mw

    Paul, I think the more accurate analogy would be to question if it matters whether a computer automatically generates a beautiful poem that expresses your feelings or if it’s better if you to do it yourself.

  190. Paul

    mw…
    But you choose what to photograph that scene not the app.
    This reminds me of my friend when we saw together “War Photographer” he was so happy to see Nachtwey using Manual mode on that Canon 1V like he always does… I just didn´t get it . Does it makes his images more valid. Oh and just in case I use manual mode always especially with my 8×10!!

  193. david bowen

    i see what you’re saying michael W – although i think that while the processing and colouring side of the hipster style is taken care of, (focus, exposure vignette and all), there is still the discipline of the frame.. timing.. the subject matter.. the situation and subject being reported.. which is all under the control of the photographer.

    it’s quite funny in a way that so much is taken care of – so much which other photographers craft at their computer in order to create an ambiance.

    at the extreme, perhaps such easily captured atmospheres which the app is capable of may set a shift in the dominant style of PJ and photographic work in general.
    carefully crafted post processing has been disregarded with, in this and all instances of hipstermatic use.. post processed atmosphere has been created by a 2usd app.
    at the extreme perhaps there will be a resurgence of photography which disposes of post processing all together.. crispness and the moment could come back into fashion?!
    for me at least, the obvious viginette, desaturating and heavy post processing it becoming weary.. thus i found http://www.newsweek.com/photo/2011/02/13/egypt-protesters-agony-ecstasy.html refreshing.. sure it is in my “style” (off camera flash.. sharp moments) – i find such traditional use of off camera flash utterly compelling.. technical skill aside – we don’t see much of that about anymore.

    i think i explained myself well enough? did i?

  195. michael kircher

    MW…

    in your comment above you seem to suggest that Winters piece lacked the journalists 5 Ws. That the iPhone is incapable of producing journalism. (if I read that wrong, apologies)

    “But in general, no, I think the historical professional standards for photojournalism, basically the 5 w’s, should, for the most part, stand.”

    Do you think Winters didn’t cover this with his essay? Couldn’t cover the 5Ws because of the iPhone? I don’t understand this comment.

    You keep referring to the camera phone as a ‘toy’. And that somehow means it is not professional to use it, that it can’t be used by professionals (or shouldn’t be) You appear to be in the it’s not the photographer it’s the tool camp. I doubt you are but your obvious disdain for the use of an iPhone by a photojournalist sounds like it.

  196. Preston Merchant

    When the first Leicas came out in the 1920s, they were not taken seriously since they were small and used cinema film. Speed Graphics dominated newspaper photography until the late 1950s.

  197. mw

    I guess no matter how many times I repeat what I said about Winters, it’s not going to matter. But to the other points… Perhaps part of the confusion comes from going back and forth between talking about photojournalism in particular and photography in general.

    Regarding photojournalism, historically, photojournalist ethics require that a scene be represented as accurately as possible. Therefore, when one uses an app that radically changes the colors, one is not to the best of one’s ability accurately representing the scene. Color, Paul, is part of both the scene and what we choose to photograph. In either event, it shouldn’t be chosen (any more than necessary) by software. In that regard, I’m okay, even impressed, with Winters’ use of the technology since he is accurately representing the scene from the soldiers’ perspective, at least some of them. In summary, in most cases, I agree that deviating from an accurate (as possible) representation of the scene should be a no no in photojournalism, but that as Winters demonstrates, there is some room for exceptions. I’d say not much room though, and the pj had better be damned good at it. (and btw, I don’t disdain the use of camera phones in photojournalism, it’s programs like hipstamatic I’m criticizing)

    Regarding photography in general, sure, anything goes. Do what you want and if it works, great. I just have my doubts that software like hipstamatic on a camera with no manual controls whatsoever, or any other gimmick like that will prove to be anything more than a fad. Too much of the skill is in the programming. Not all, but too much.

    I guess reasonable people can disagree, but I’m like David Bowen. I took those pictures yesterday, thought they were really cool at the time, put them on my screensaver and then got sick of them and that style in next to no time.

  198. tom hyde

    Oh, I don’t know, as long as something is clearly what it is, and what you say it is, I think your okay to a point within the context of newspaper photojournalism. It is misrepresentation that becomes the problem, not a “style” or “look” that becomes an ethical issue. Usually, anyway. Yeah well, overprocessed hdr may not technically be an ethical lapse, it just looks like shit. There are journalists who have used a Holga, or Graflex with an aeroektar, or boosted the hell out of the contrast in B&W, either in the darkroom, or digitally, and while they created mood or style, or even altered perception or beauty or impact, I don’t believe they created fiction. Just don’t touch the clone tool, add or subtract, unless of course to crop without changing context. Apologies if this just runs the discussion in further circles …

    I’m sure most have seen this … NPPA Code of ethics”

  199. Gordon Lafleur

    mw

    re “hipster” ap.

    I’ve got no problem with iphone pics, aps, photoshop actions, whatever. Scary how easy it is? naw, only if you have a lot of time invested in learning how to create all those ‘looks’ manually.
    Cameras are now showing up with built in ‘art’ filters.

    Journalism? honesty?, a myriad of factors will influence how any given scene is rendered by a camera. Lens choice, shutter speed and aperture choice, camera choice etc. Is pumped up saturation any less honest than choosing black and white (no saturation). Is an vignette OK if it is created by the light fall off of a simple lens but not after the fact? Is burning and dodging OK? Is it OK to crop in camera, but not after the fact? Human vision and cameras see vastly differently.

    I don’t have an i-phone, but am tempted, mainly by the camera and the cool photo aps.

  200. Justin Smith

    DAH,

    Just to make sure that your question from yesterday evening was answered: “ok,i give up..where is a post by Kurt? cannot find…help me, help me”

    To which Sam Harris replied with Kurt’s original post: “@Justin- I have anolder Nikon D200 DSLRs collecting dust on my shelf. Email if you want it, no charge, just pay it forward.”

    What transpired is this: I had posted an inquiry regarding real-world experience with the Nikon D40 and Olympus E-420, as I was looking for a small, inexpensive dSLR (as I’m a bit cash-strapped at the moment). I received helpful replies and e-mails, then Kurt kindly and graciously gifted me a D200 and lens. How awesome is that?!!!

    Even though many of us interact in the virtual sense only, Burn has the feel of a real community. A special place, for sure.

  201. Ross Nolly

    Is the hipstamatic valid? As valid as loading a film camera with black and white film I’d say. The film does all the original “manipulation” work for you. Sure you may want to print etc, but the basic “conversion” is done in-camera.

    And of course it is a false view of the world, cos I’ve never seen a black and white world… And; every discussion about using new technology is never black and white either!

    Oh; and I do have my tongue firmly planted in my cheek! :-)

  203. Imants

    I guess reasonable people can disagree, but I’m like David Bowen. I took those pictures yesterday, thought they were really cool at the time, put them on my screensaver and then got sick of them and that style in next to no time………………..sounds more like sick of self or in a rut

  204. david alan harvey

    after all of this discussion on apps , manipulations etc, i have decided that my old Kodachromes have a new value…no way to “manipulate” Kodachrome…you either had it or you didn’t….the tonal range and saturation were milk and honey….and best of all, it is now extinct!!!

  207. mw

    Thanks Imants, can always count on you to come up with something derogatory regarding just about anything. Projecting a bit, are we?

    Anyway, no worries. I’m out of that one hour toy camera rut and back to my customarily high self-regard.

  208. Imants

    Not derogatory about what I stated you just keep on stating you want something new, seen that been there next new thing attitude…………If you feel that using the app was a negative why did you bother.

  209. bob black

    PANOS :))

    ok, brother, just bought KΑΤΑ ΤΟΝ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΕΑΥΤΟΥ ΚΑΤ :))

    GOTTA fly…healing…can’t wait to get it…will get peace frog beginning of march when med bills are paid for :)))…

    hugs brother
    b

  210. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY…

    you are describing a derivative, not a Kodachrome John….there is no way to manipulate a Kodachrome….a Kodachrome IS a final image ..a final photographic positive image..done deal…one of a kind….of course you can manipulate the derivatives of anything that is scanned…but an original Kodachrome is an original Kodachrome…the reason for the development of transparency film was for projection..THE viewing system for transparencies , so from a pure viewing standpoint , nothing else happens after the photographer presses the shutter button….

  211. john gladdy

    cibachromes?
    ilfochromes?
    books?
    magazines?
    the web?
    99.9% of kodachrome that most people will have seen will have been in these formats and not slideshows.

    …and who projects nowadays anyway? :)

  212. mw

    If you feel that using the app was a negative why did you bother.

    I didn’t know what I felt about something I had no experience with, so I got experience with it. You really see a problem with that?

  214. mw

    So what are you saying John? That the only way to view a Kodachrome is with a loupe? Probably true, but not relevant to the real world.

  216. mw

    BTW, feel I should mention in case I came off otherwise, but I respect Michael, Ross, Paul, David’s and anyone else who’s commented’s opinion on this. I suspect we can all agree that there’s no one single answer that covers every possibility. We’re just arguing general principles and how they apply around the edges. What’s the real difference between hipstamatic “film” and Kodachrome? Maybe there is none in an absolute sense, but I think it’s pretty safe to say that if you give ten tourists a roll of Kodachrome and a Leica and have them walk around lower Manhattan for awhile, the end result will look a whole helluva lot worse than if you gave them the same assignment with iphones and hipstamatic. But if you gave ten Magnum photographers the same assignment…

  217. mw

    Eva, not sure what your cropping reference refers to? Personally, I’m not against cropping, but perhaps the most important insight I’ve gained from my association with burn and David is that cropping is far more likely to negate the quality of a photo than enhance it. Again and again I find that the way I framed it when I took the shot, clutter and all, is far superior to the way I’m inclined to crop it when editing. It’s been a serious eye opener.

  218. Imants

    You really see a problem with that?….please explain how you came to that conclusion. How you know that to be so? How did you manage to come up with that conclusion from the following statement “If you feel that using the app was a negative why did you bother.”
    Maybe if I am lucky I will get a constructive reply…………

  219. Imants

    …which could be as constructive as ahmmmn lets pick a real hard camera for a novice to use(leica) and compare it with the easiest and bet on the results

  222. Thomas Bregulla

    Michael W

    But if you gave ten Magnum photographers the same assignment…

    I would say, that you would see the difference, even with the hipstamatic. Maybe this leads to the question, what is more important in a picture? The content, the layout, the emotions, the colors, the moment – how are the priorities?

  223. mw

    Thomas, my point was that the Magnum photographers would produce infinitely superior images with the Leica and their own processing aesthetic than they would with the ipod and the software. Not saying they wouldn’t produce fantastic stuff with whatever camera. But many of those with significantly less skill would produce better photos with everything but the arrangements of objects in the frame being decided for them. In that sense, I’m very impressed with the programming skills of the hipstamatic folk. You’ve got ta be pretty good to beat them. It takes a lot of work.

    As for what’s most important — content, layout, emotions, colors, the moment? Don’t know that I’m the right person to ask, but I’d say yes.

  224. Imants

    ……..Thomas as you are aware personal photos for many have direct meaning and sentiment no matter what it looks like, layout ,colours even focus take a back seat. Tourists have their own ways as well…….

  225. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY

    you keep talking about derivatives …what you say is absolutely 100% true, but has nothing to do with what i said..i am not talking about how many people may have seen a picture..why is that a reference? .i am talking about two things (!) the fact that the original positive of Kodachrome (the first and orig way you see it) cannot be manipulated (2) the value of Kodachrome originals, because they are one of a kind, and because the film is now extinct , will now pick up a value perhaps way beyond the derivatives..

  226. Akaky

    “Maybe there is none in an absolute sense, but I think it’s pretty safe to say that if you give ten tourists a roll of Kodachrome and a Leica and have them walk around lower Manhattan for awhile, the end result will look a whole helluva lot worse than if you gave them the same assignment with iphones and hipstamatic. But if you gave ten Magnum photographers the same assignment…”

    The end result in both cases would be the same: a message from Dwayne’s saying, didnt you people get the memo? We dont do this anymore. And so, like this discussion, we would be arguing metaphysics instead of physics, which is great if you enjoy this sort of thing.

  228. eva

    MW..

    I was referring to DAH’s comment about Kodachromes being IT, you have one chance to take the picture, as is, no altering afterwards looking at them projected.. no cropping either, no manipulating.. one of a kind.. that is when you really see the skills of a photographer.

    I have no problems what other people do with their pictures, cropping, postproduction with whatever program, dodging and burning in wet darkroom, or manipulating them otherwise, it is the picture that counts.

    That said, personally I don’t crop, never had that habit, either I print the whole negative or the picture is out. Simple, fast, saves me the hassle with playing around, trying to save crap.. got enough of that anyway.

    It is the picture that counts.. Paul above writes that it would be the same, if for example Sally Mann’s pictures would come out of an iphone. That might be so.. but the way she works shows not only the eye she has, but also the skills as a photographer.. plus she produces one of a kind pieces. I guess it boils down to what you want..

  230. a civilian-mass audience

    IMO,the chicken or the egg…?
    let’s see what the new generation will bring…
    millions of my kids and my grandkids have no idea…what roll film means…:)))

    Happy Birthday ANNIE…!

    and where is KATIEEE,LEE,SIDNEY,JIM,LASSAL,AUDREY,CHARLES,REIMAR,THODORIS,WENDY…
    SPACECOWBOY……..and ALL of you…

    P.S …fox came close tonight…I see fear in my chicken’s eyes…hmmm…
    maybe it’s me…

  231. Paul

    Imant´s has got it as far as I´m concerned,
    “personal photos for many have direct meaning and sentiment no matter what it looks like, layout ,colours even focus take a back seat. Tourists have their own ways as well”.
    The worries we have as photographers about sensor sizes, digital noise, lenses and everything else are problems only we photographers have. The general public and those who follow photography without practising it could not give a damn if it was a difficult shot or not. In fact they don´t care if it was taken with a Leica m6 or a D40. They are interested in the final image and not if you went cross eyed to get that incredible photo or if you sat in the rain 5 hours for the other shot.
    BTW MW, I never doubted your respect for all the personal views on this site. Of course I have the same respect for your comments and always enjoy your insight.:)

  232. marcin luczkowski

    What I realllly like in film is that. like David said, this is final product. Even b&w film is much more invariable than digital photography. Well, I have to menton that this is my very personal opinion, because my problem with digital photography is diversity. I just cand decide HOW my digital images should looks like. Especially with positive film I have final efect and nothing more aside.
    Last time I was delighted in plug-in silverefexpro. Now I am still looking for digital view of my pictures. and it quite opsessive. Mostly I dont like all final results.
    In film the all answers are very easy B&W- 400tx, positive- kodak e100vs, g and gx. I always knew what I could expect from.
    happy, who has found the final effect, even with hipstamatic Iphone

  233. john gladdy

    David. You are right, obviously, on both your points, and I dont think I was disputing that.

    But what you are talking about are ‘objects’ that for the most part have lived in a cupboard or filing cabinet for decades, and are destined to spend the rest of their very finite lives in a similar place.
    They are no more or less special than any color neg or b/w negative/positive of the same ‘pictorial quality’ or vintage.. And Very few care about the amount of ability needed to realise a ‘perfect’ chrome, and why should they? Everymans point and shoot can now make perfect exposures pretty much every click, craft has become automated, chimping and adjusting the norm…anyone can do it…billions do.
    They will say “shit dude, you should have borrowed my kids sony” .. And to a certain extent they will be right. Sad but true.
    In fact most champions of chromes actually shoot digital now themselves, and take full advantage of the technological advances available.
    Now I am willing to bet that you can walk into pretty much any situation and ‘call it’ pretty much instantly. “F2.8 at 1/60” etc.. Takes a huge amount of skill and experience to do that, a knowledge that was once invaluable. re-calculate for a different shutter or film speed change?, pull out the shadows or protect the highlights?, piece of cake. A mastery of craft that was once a pre-requisite is nowadays seen as an anachronism. An affectation almost. Again, sad but true.
    Same with kodachromes.
    Should we to raise them to the status of old masters then because of their uniqueness? And have them languish in bank vaults instead of filing cabinets? Available to view in the original unsullied form only for a select few? Commanding higher and higher prices, and therefore becoming even more elite, even less available to all but the rich?
    I cannot believe that this was the spirit that they would have been made in.
    Photography is sharing…and in the case of chromes sharing means deriviatives…no other way.(unless we travel back in time to the fifties, and who wants that?)
    Protecting the integrity of those derivatives is a whole other story, but derivatives there must be…and once there are derivatives, they will be, by their very nature, derivative, and subject to manipulation.

    NOTE
    I am looking at a print on my wall made by a seventeen year old kid on a point and shoot, with no knowledge whatsoever of camera function past full auto press the button, chimp, repeat.. potatoshopped to hell and back.
    Above it is a print made by a celebrated art photographer on 5×4 polaroid neg, hand printed and toned. They are BOTH utterly gorgeous.

  234. Paul

    john gladdy…
    Great comment! I don’t go much into Flickr these days only when you send us a link :) and yes everyone with a digital camera on Flickr has ONE brilliant shot but THREE or FOUR? Very few and that is the diference in my opinion between a master and the probably all the others.

  235. john gladdy

    Paul. I dont go there that often myself, but I do keep a couple of accounts alive. And there are a lot of extremely talented photographers show their work there. it is snobbish to think otherwise.(handy for uploading instant slideshows also) The difference, i believe, is intent. many people that use platforms such as flickr shoot for the joy of shooting and sharing. Is that bad? Or less valid than ‘careering’?
    There are also groups such as HCSP, the street photography group, who, while I dont always agree with their aesthetic, are a major factor in the continuing battle to raise the profile of street photography. And have some very prominent and active members. Petty disagreements aside, that has to be a positive thing for photography right?
    Where else can you go if you shoot 120 plus x, on a box brownie devved in coffee and printed on bog roll to find other people that do also?…bet theres a group on flickr somewhere for that, and just about any other combination of cameras/films/papers/sensor modifications/cross proccessing/radical potatoshop…..the list is endless.
    And the picture on the wall counts…not who took it or on what. or where they choose to show it, or to whom.

  237. Paul

    John Gladdy…
    Yes, yes and yes in to agreement to everything you’ve said. Yes it is all down to intent and my search for rare air sometimes becomes my downfall as I miss out on the simple and just as rewarding photography you mention. Of course the photo counts and as you quite rightly stated who cares if it was in program mode, photography is all about self expression another way like some write and others sing.
    Any chance of posting a link to one of these photographers you follow round there?

  238. david alan harvey

    PAUL

    you are correct of course in that the “general public” just does not care about how , which camera, which film, paper, or anything that we so called serious photographers obsess over…however, the assumption here i think that we are talking amongst fellow photographers and the practicing of the craft on the highest levels….while i do not care if a Shiraz is 1998 or 1999, there are some who would think i was an idiot for not knowing the difference…a photograph printed on fiber paper is the same photograph if printed on resin paper, but for the collector there is a big difference…when some refer to the “general public” and their acceptance or recognition of a particular picture, i honestly do not know who this “they” really is…

    who is the so called “general public” and what is it they are accepting exactly? in the days of large magazine readerships i suppose the “they” was the circulation of the magazine and became in the minds of the editors “our readers” and therefore what “they” thought of a picture was what the editors thought of a picture…and in that sense the “they” does not care whether a picture was cropped , printed on fish wrap, or whatever…

    on your other point, how difficult a picture was to take or how long it took to take it is not a factor with the photo obsessed nor the “general public”…

    but sure as hell is a factor in the minds of many who show me their work…on that point, i always tell someone who is showing me work that you have to be able to hike four days desert, get to the point you were going, get the picture of whatever is was you were after, and be prepared to easily throw the picture out if it just isn’t a fine photograph…a lot of photographers get lost right there..confusing effort with result…the fact that you ran out of water and almost died , has nothing to do with the photograph…sure makes a good story with your buddies at the pub however…

  240. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY..

    now you are talking about collecting and elitism of collecting a one of a kind object and the morality thereof…a totally different topic, but one of great interest to all of us of course…

    yes , where is the line drawn between creation of a one of kind, limited edition, hand made object, that only the rich can afford and the distribution of this imagery out there for everyone to see?

    well, my original comment was quite simply referencing my own Kodachromes and was totally in the context of the discussion on manipulation…however, we have both digressed at this point, so let’s roll…..the commercial art value of these Kodachromes will not be determined by me, but in that vein i can imagine that if presented in a particular way, they indeed , like all “one of kinds”, will increase in value … yes either for the very rich or most likely for well endowed museums who add to their collections regularly…and for many reasons..i do not think a collector would buy just a Kodachrome…of course there are millions out there…but they might buy selected Kodachromes if presented in a particular way as they buy some TriX images but not all..

    i would not feel the least bit guilty of selling Kodachromes or any work to a museum or collector since the masses of folks, who cannot buy such one of a kind objects nor have any interest in doing so, were the first to purvey these photographs…the photographs i took on Kodachrome were seen literally by millions of people who paid literally pennies to see them if anything….inexpensive reproductions in the form of posters, low cost books, exhibitions etc allowed for the viewing of imagery shot on say Kodachrome made this work accessible by the masses and was their original intent…still , the medium is a one of a kind object of maybe great value to a few…..AND the image therein might have been distributed to the “general public” basically for free….

    so the masters can be seen for free by millions and the non-masters can be seen for free by millions…ok great Flickr,Facebook folks are billionaires and now what?? it brings us right back to selection or inclusion or collecting or whatever it is that humans do to separate one thing from another..whether it be wine, rugs, glassware, or photography…

    IF the image shot on Kodachrome became a popular icon and for whatever reason was one that some wanted to hang on their wall, then they could surely have it there at either low cost or no cost…that very same Kodachrome original would however have great value to a collector or to a museum because of both the image made and the medium it was on…the museums of the world are built on this major premise…

    it is an assumption on your part that those who are “careering” as you say are not sharing the same personal joys of photographing as anyone else…i know of no group enjoying photography on every level more than what you are calling “careering”….they are the ones loving it the most …..you should not confuse commercial photography with photography taken very seriously by some who have gone way beyond the Flickr groups…it is not divided between amateurs and commercial photographers …there is another whole world out there…

    all of this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that anyone with a digi camera now can make pictures that look just as good as Kodachromes…of course they can…but they are NOT Kodachromes…the image just might look like a Kodachrome…the postcard of the Mona Lisa hanging on my wall is a perfect rendition of the Mona Lisa…but it is not the Mona Lisa….this is the whole point of the limited edition prints…..human nature will always dictate the rising above the mean level of whatever it is we are talking about…you can detest this aspect of human nature if you like, but it will be the part of human nature that creates the finest of ballets, the best movies, the greatest theatrical productions, operas, great art museum, and yes SOME photography…

    this of course does not take away from your very good point that the beauty of a five year old painting , drawing or photograph has perhaps an equal beauty to a master…i have gone into schools and seen child paintings and drawing that rivaled the masters..or did they honestly? well, actually not quite…almost..looked a lot like…could see the potential…and yes the innocence of the young and the natural creativity that gets pushed out can be seen in this work…but a real match for the masters? i do not think so..but it is a nice idea and i would be the first to promote the work of the very young, the unknown, and the aspiring…that is exactly the point of Burn in fact..were i just out there trying to hawk my wares to collectors, i would not be here believe me…and yes one of those school kids might just go from classroom wall to the Tate, but not all….

    there is no democratic judgment of art….has not happened through the ages and is unlikely to start now…curators curate….you did not want a democratic judgment of your own work just last week….you wrote the other day that it was a personal call on your part and perhaps with a collaborator..i think this is correct…

    so back to Kodachrome…some will sit in attic along with all of grandma’s negatives as you say…and some will rise above due to the one of a kind nature of image and medium….as does absolutely everything in our craft, our art, our passion, and sometimes our business…

    to be very clear, i do not think that “one of a kind” is the only celebration of photography..quite the contrary and referring again to what i said above about mass distribution …but at the same time those who do celebrate and cherish the “one of a kind” should not be chastised for their appreciation either…these two schools of thought are not mutually exclusive imo…

    cheers, david

  242. mw

    I think for all of us here, it’s not about what the general public likes. In photography, like pretty much everything else, the general public likes crap most of the time . Editors, art directors, gallery owners, curators, buyers, fellow professionals, a more discerning slice of the general public — those are the people that matter if we want to get paid or even if we want intelligent appreciation of our work and getting paid just goes with the territory. And by the same token, as photographers, the general public takes crappy photos most of the time. Editors, art directors, blah blah blah, will not pay for it.

    And sure, a great photo does not necessarily require great knowledge nor skill nor hiking four days in the desert nor the finest equipment, but those who possess great knowledge and skill and are willing to make the greatest effort with the finest equipment will get a helluva lot more great photos than those lacking in any of those areas. And when it comes to getting paid, who is that editor or art director going to depend on? Who is that gallery owner or curator going to bet on? Well, duh.

    Here’s a personal anecdote that touches on several of these issues. I shot a small assignment a few weeks ago. It was as simple as simple gets. A picture of a building. The art director pulled a shot of it off Google street view and showed me the exact shot he wanted. He actually could have just used the google shot, but had some ethics about keeping creative people employed. Anyway, I went and took the shots he wanted but the conditions were radically different than when the google car passed — big piles of black snow and garbage bags in the shot. That’s where a little knowledge mattered. I realized that if I took the shot at night, the black snow and garbage bags could be lost in the shadow. And secondarily, saw that the colors would be interesting from a color theory perspective. Then in order to take the shot, I had to go to some effort, not quite four days hiking in the desert, but getting up very early and standing out in freezing rain and high wind. It also required me to have a camera with specs enough to get a night shot in the wind and the rain.

    So although in a certain condition, a dumb camera mounted on a car was able to get an adequate shot, doing it professionally on demand took a little knowledge, effort and quality gear. That little anecdote is representative of real life so much more than all these anybody-can-do-it-with-an-iphone stories. And at the higher levels, the necessary knowledge and skill and effort and (in some cases) gear are much greater.

    And funny how everyone talks about photoshop and automated gear but virtually all of the top professionals go to extraordinary lengths to get it right in camera and set their camera as they see fit. Better to pay more attention to what they do than whatever they may say.

  247. Paul

    What about style or a personal voice? Does style find you or is it something one must search for within? Certainly seems a very difficult part of photography to tame, so few posess a distinctive style.

  248. a civilian-mass audience

    “Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative ART.”
    Ansel Adams

    and you are ALL gifted Artists…BUT…

    “The artist is nothing without the gift, but the gift is nothing without work.”
    Emile Zola

    and here ,we are in BURNLAND and you are BURNIANS…so don’t get distructed by the masses…
    YOU focus and keep working… cause your vision is helping us, the civilians,the masses to
    “KEEP OUR DREAMS ALIVE”.

    Thank you
    a civilian- mass audience

  249. Jeff Hladun

    Paul, a great question. I’d certainly be interested in reading what others think about the development of style and vision…

    For me it is now something I no longer worry about. I came to the realization some time ago that who the person is is the primary catalyst for their style. Reading the histories and biographies of artists give us a fairly accurate indication of the factors that created their approach; reading the thoughts of essayists here tells me as much about their work as their work itself. When my understanding of the person co-incides with my judgement of their work – when I see their personality in their photographs – the honesty re-assures me. But when what I know of their points-of-view clashes with the work, I’m unsettled. There is a certain straightforwardness and clarity that comes through and to me that is the style.

    What interests us in creative endeavours is another aspect. What turns your crank in terms of subject matter that you deal with? Landscapes, still life, portrait, street? Do you think in terms of stories, or one-off images that steals your attention? How does your understanding of the world around you dictate want you want to say?

    It is probably less about mastering technique than it is about understanding your nature, interests, and desires. Slightly off-topic, but just a few days ago I saw a news report about, of all things, men’s facial products. A sales rep was demonstrating certain products on himself (man-liner, rouge, etc.). Oddly, he was sporting two day’s worth of stubble, and I was amused at how on one hand he was so vain as to want to look better through make-up, while pretentious enough to look raw, worldly, and weary via the early beard. Sometimes the essays I see are the same; through repeated tricks of technique, the photographer sends off a vibe which only serves to hide a lack of content, message, and point of view.

    The person’s soul is his style, and when the soul comes through in the work then simultaneously so does the style. To me it is as simple as that.

  250. eva

    Jeff..

    “The person’s soul is his style, and when the soul comes through in the work then simultaneously so does the style.”

    Now that is quite nice.. going to think about this for a bit..

  251. Paul

    Jeff…
    Lovely comment! You´ve managed to express everything I was struggling with in my comment! I just wish I had your eloquence when writing, but too many years living in a foreign country have managed to make me feel extremely inadequate when commenting on Burn. Nowadays all my English is expressed through Burn, two little kids and a very loyal dog!

  252. Paul

    John Gladdy…
    You have some very very fine images in that collection of your´s on Flickr. The intensity in these images is really quite arresting, the sort of place I would head to when I am short of inspiration.

  254. david alan harvey

    PAUL..

    well, style and voice seems to me to be the primary discussion we have had here the last few years…and we can never get enough of it really..i do not have much time right this minute , so i cannot go into a long thought and it is something i in which i am very interested…quickly, i think this is the most significant thing for most emerging serious photographers to think about….the THING …i mean THE thing…that is if taking your work to the highest levels matters…basically this is very very simple..in order to have a voice, authorship, you must have something on your mind…i do not mean necessarily literally as in one cohesive thought, but you must have something to say…or better put, you must have a certain something you NEED to say…many photographers can skillfully photograph an event or place or person…few can put their mark on it….and you cannot put a mark on it if you do not have a feeling about it….a need to express an idea or opinion about it..you cannot make this happen…you can however stimulate the process , the place where you need to have your head, by trying like hell to strip away all psychological barriers, preconceptions, etc and asking yourself what you really think…if you really think something, we will know it when we see the work….

  255. john gladdy

    David . Absolutely!
    Once you can look in the mirror, and strip all away, and name all your names; then you will see them wherever you go, reflected in the world.
    Honesty is all.

  259. Gracie

    jeff.. paul.. DAH

    yes… yes.. personal voice, style and soul… much of what creativity is all about whether photography, canvas splash or writing. my frustration (as i am the general public) is how do you make light look this way, how can you make red not too yellowy or black not so black…

    so whereas ‘personal voice, style and soul’ is the crux of expression it is important also to have some skill. so i understand this is where paging through legends, workshops, talking to people with your same interests, and mentoring come in. but as i see it even with BURN, the craft is so competitive, i see a lot keep to themselves and i dont really see why.. or maybe just my own inaccurate observation.

    one’s voice is one’s own and i guess this is what authorship means. but without the skill/knowhow/or adeptness in the medium you speak in, you’ll never be heard either. some though IMO spend their lifetime never learning how to ask for help.

  264. david alan harvey

    GRACIE

    you said ” a lot keep to themselves and i do not really see why”..not sure what you mean by that exactly..it certainly is incumbent on the photographer to not let their life slip away and to make sure certain things happen if they are supposed to happen…most , upon clear self examination, know what this means…the sin is if you know something but just do not act upon it…there really is not as much competition as it appears.. there are thousands who might want something, but that is different than having the ability to actually do it…and that takes a multiplicity of talents and or efforts…for example, at NatGeo they are searching searching for talent, same at Magnum, and same for us here at Burn..we cannot find enough good material..that is the truth…so whomever has it, please let us see it..and the editors i know all say the same thing….judging your own work honestly against others is the first step…and the worst step that so many take, is to get cynical before they even really go shooting on the highest levels…there are a whole lot of bitter photographers out there who just do not know what went wrong…they blame somebody …and we all know what that means..

  266. Imants

    Too many photographers think about it , talk about it,party about it, and……… spend most of the time pussy footing around and fail to follow their personal convictions because they want to follow a preconceived well trodden path.

  267. Imants

    Ross is a great example of a photographer following his convictions, …leaves a regular income to freelance newsprint/magazine work. Moves on from there and give himself a goal, a reason to take photographs. Strays a bit(as we all do) but stays strong and true to his work.
    All this from his home country NZ where there are very few workshops, fellow peers are few and far between and there are very limited opportunities financially in the photographic field. But he is there working,re working, thinking, doing ………..following his path not that of others

  270. Paul

    imants…
    So very true. I have very strong doubts I could spend a whole summer living with another family as David did with Tell it like it is. The whole idea sounds so tempting, highly idealistic in fact even romantic… what dreams are made up of. However family obligations, sacrifices involving not only me but those living with me stop me straight in my tracks.

  271. a civilian-mass audience

    That’s the spirit of my true BURNIANS…my photophilosophers…my AUSSIES,my New Zealanders,my Asians,
    my Europeans,my Africans,my Americans,my Middle Easterners,my people from North and south pole…!!!
    …by the way,do we have any BURNIANS in Africa…Middle East…?

    ok…back to our regular programe…Love to ALLLL

  272. Imants

    Paul but the steps taken by Ross are not as dramatic as David’s move Ross has created a affordable situation both for him and others around him.

  277. Ross Nolly

    Imants;

    Thank you for the kind words. But really, I’m doing nothing different to so many other photographers, artists, musicians etc. The only difference is that I’m doing it at a later stage of my life (48 years old). Not as a 20 year old, full of piss and vinegar…

    I just wish I’d had the balls to leave the comfortable life (and income) much earlier. But looking back with regret is pointless. I’ve got to admit that I sometimes wonder about whether I’ve chosen the right path when you see those that you were once at school with living in flash hoses and driving nice cars…

    As for leaving the comfort zone; you just don’t dwell on it much. No point, just use that energy for something positive. The hardest part is having faith in your own vision, both in how you work progresses and whether you actually are on the right path.

    For me; the biggest difficulty to overcome is actually having confidence in my own work and the belief that I have something to worthwhile to show. Both of which I struggle with every day; and to be honest; it’ll probably never change.

    Or as Jim White would say;

    “Sometimes you throw yourself into the sea of faith, and the sharks of doubt come and they devour you. Other times you throw yourself into the sea of faith only to find the treasure lost in the shipwreck inside of you! There ain’t no guarantees, none of that nonsense like on tv, just gotta roll the dice, and take your lumps. You’re gonna get yourself knocked down, so better learn to stand back up, for those who dwell on disaster let sorrow be their master”

  279. Gordon Lafleur

    Ross, loving the images, things are getting tighter, great to watch the work evolving.

    Gotta tell you, I want to believe the “kids are alright”, but mine, and so many of my friends, are pretty fucked up right now. This is a very tough time to be young. In my day, the sixties, it was onward and upward, there was no doubt we would do better than our parents. This is not so today. Economic and ecological collapse looms. I’m told that this is the “why bother” generation. Give me some hope Ross. The party pics are great, but I only see mindless hedonism instead of real joy.

  280. david bowen

    paul – if you already have a family you need not find one to spend the summer with :o)

    i think mental preparation / traveling inspires great work – physical traveling may or may not be involved.
    then it’s just a case of negotiating with life until there is enough room to play..

  281. Imants

    There was still a large population of mindless disenfranchised youth in the sixties,eighties etc …….there are many go getters that “do bother” in today’s ranks

  283. Ross Nolly

    Gordon; “but I only see mindless hedonism instead of real joy”

    Mindless hedonism; or just being young and having fun? New work coming… This time focusing more on the home aspects and quiet times.

    I do have to admit I’ve copped a fair bit of flak about the kids project. The funny thing to me is that I personally know many of the main detractors (I’m not including you in that group Gordon) of the ideal behind the kids project; and more importantly, know what they were like as “kids”. Put it this way; the words “stones” and “glasshouses” does spring to mind! :-)

    “Economic and ecological collapse looms. I’m told that this is the “why bother” generation” Caused by “our” generation… Can you blame them if they are cynical? :-)

    Imants; “there are many go getters that “do bother” in today’s ranks”

    And I see them when they’re out. Going to a birthday party and watch the kids taking away the car keys of those too drunk to drive etc. That sure didn’t happen in my day.

    The extremes of “bad” have got worse; but the vast majority of “kids” are having fun, getting on with life, attaining qualifications, getting lumbered with huge education debt (ironically; fees put in place by my generation who had free university tuition…) etc

    Funny; I had exactly the same conversation with someone this morning (taking me to task); him thinking that the world was going to hell in a handcart. From what I could gather he was twisting facts to suit his particular point of view.

    He was moaning about the amount of drunkenness in town and how the police do nothing about enforcing the city CBD liquor bans (actual drinking in the street). When I asked him when he was last in town in the wee hours of the morning he admitted that he hadn’t. Strange; when I’m in town (often) I see the police (and bar doormen) enforcing it all the time; usually with a softly softly approach that works!

    Anyway; time to jump off the soapbox! :-)

  284. david bowen

    i wonder if ever generation has seen the one following theirs as being somehow more “devil may care”..

    generalizations never really fit, less so when geographic and social factors are involved..
    compare 18-30 year olds in egypt with those in england.. we’ve all drunk / smoked / whatevered.. it compliments free thought, which brings about the changes from generation to generation.. changes which in tern drive the older generation to draw comparisons.

    hedonism is so closely tied to communication and expression – sharing of thought and evolution of ideas.. it may seem mindless in some cases, yet when the fog clears mindful changes occur.

  286. eva

    Over here it doesn’t really feel that the adults are any more ‘alright’ than the kids.. on the contrary.. but this also is a generalisation..

    Civi, salute :)

  287. Herve

    I think for all of us here, it’s not about what the general public likes. In photography, like pretty much everything else, the general public likes crap most of the time
    ———————-

    Ultimately, it is not about what general or specific anything likes. Certainly not as you “create”. I find however that the “general public” are apt to like quality as much as crap, especially in the realm of photos, where an image can prove to be even more visceral in its effect on evryone than a book, a poem, a painting and etc…. It is also quite nice and refreshing to once in a while just look at photos, any, just as if we were that, shocking!!!, general public… ;-)

  288. Paul

    Herve…
    The general public i am thinking of is those that at sometime perhaps went to piano lessons or photography, painting courses and found out very early on they could never aspire to that rare air we comment about here. However these people do have the education and appreciation thanks to those lessons for the beautiful in the very large world of art in general. These same people get enough satisfaction from visiting galleries or purchasing the latest magnum book.

  290. marcin luczkowski

    WE ARE general public “who like crap”, if not in photography there is a lot of things where we are “folks who like crap things”, we like crap music, crap movies, crap books.
    but in my opinion even in photography we are mostly crap likers.

  291. eva

    Talking about rare air.. my guess is that we all (and especially more so if we appreciate what we see) enjoy looking at the product that this rare air gives.. we have a chance, right here on Burn, to do that.. but my other guess is that it doesn’t come for free.. having on display people like Pellegrin, Soth, Gilden, Nachtwey.. with the emerging counterparts.. I think it is well worth to invest in this kind of venue.. even if it is only a few bucks for each one of us.. piled up it might be a big help for the Burncrew, so they can concentrate on the WORK, instead on how to get it financed..

    Third guess of the day.. DAH is too much of a gentleman to ask for something.. so I just write this at the risk of being too blunt..

  292. david alan harvey

    IMANTS

    you are absolutely right about Ross….he just keeps working…does not dwell obsessively on what does not work or even on past work at all , and gets up in the morning and goes out and does something new…

  293. david alan harvey

    PAUL…

    i think you are identifying correctly what we are calling the “general public” and their values etc..but yes of course the general public is us….folks who build model airplanes talk about a general public that knows nothing of flying and farmers think the general public are a bunch of folks who do not appreciate the fact that they grow food for the world, etc etc etc

    to your other point about dreaming of doing something, but with either no time or family obligations to do a project like TILII…when i shot Tell It Like It Is , i was literally a starving grad school student, worked part time at the local paper to pay the rent, and had the tremendous responsibility of keeping my young wife and new baby with a roof over their head..the thought of magazine assignments of any kind was not even a dream and Magnum was something in the books at the school library…i had no mentor….there is always a way…

    or look at Sam Harris and Postcards From Home….published here on Burn …now new book…new exhibit…family pictures….he lives a few hours south of Perth, so i doubt he has a mentor either…i work with him on skype, but he just does it….

    cheers, david

  295. david alan harvey

    hey i have a question for all of you….

    haven’t you ever wondered why so many pj’s wear scarves? a badge? an affectation? tell me…i really want to know…no, do not tell me it is to protect from the cold or dust…i see pj’s inside buildings in new york in the summer time wearing a scarf..

  296. eva

    When there is a will there is a way.. you just gotta find out what your will really is..

    About scarves.. my daughter tells me she feels protected and cozy.. wearing one all the time.. but she’s no pj.. ‘only’ a painter..

  297. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    many thanks … you are right it is very difficult for me to make a plea….i just can’t …that is why i have Magnum , so they can sell pictures for me…i swear i would give them away …as you correctly point out the financing is for the photographers…for YOU..for the readers here who are compensated for their work on Burn , for the chance at the EPF, and for the Pellegrin’s of the world as well who come here not for money but for association with a cool venue…we cannot keep this venue without ads without audience support…yes, simple as that…and yes we really want a new website…a more complex but more inclusive system where the archives here have a long life…off the front page but into a new space easy to search etc..that and books is all we want to do…stay small..stay for this crowd…we have a good thing going here and let’s hang on as long as we can…again, thank you

    cheers, david

  298. Paul

    david…
    I know i remember when you told us on RoadTrips how you decided to do TILII walking round the block choosing to do it in BW. I was blown away, equally inspired and at the same time understanding the obvious sacrifices as a young family this must of meant. Funny enough I know damn well if I suggested a similar project to my wife she would be the first to push me on! :) And this is something i’ve been thinking about for a very very long time.

  299. Paul

    when i met my wife she sang opera profesionally not as a soloist but in the choir side. She always wore a scarf even in the baking summer sun and i remember asking her and she said it had nothing to do with her voice. These days whenever she puts a scarf on (she gave up singing for me and the kids although i was totally against it) i always tell her she is going into her ”Bohemian Mode”. Yes it seems to be some kind of artistic statement like that french berry hat.

  300. Paul

    funny i was thinking my monthly subscription of ten dollars towards Burn was pretty pathetic considering it doesn’t even up to a dollar a day.

  301. Paul

    john gladdy…
    Of course we are also general public but in the world of photography our tastes, thoughts/musings and views on Burn are not mainstream. The general photography public are USUALLY worried about the megapixel race and if that lens really front focusses as rumour has it. Nothing wrong with that everyone to their own devices but i prefer what Burn offers me. Anyway when did the general public shoot ever shoot medium format and follow Anders Petersen? Let alone these days!

  302. david alan harvey

    PAUL

    oh yes i am sure…and of course i tell of things that worked but i also have dozens of projects not completed…as i have said before, one out of ten things completed is a big success for me….getting that one is even a miracle….

  304. mw

    Hmmmm, so the general public doesn’t prefer crap most of the time and to believe that true is elitist? Perhaps, but that would mean that whatever is most popular at any given time is the best and that which is not sucks. So if you don’t think the new cd by the American Idol winner is the best music, then you are an elitiest, ipso facto, just like me.

    As for kids these days, David Bowen is certainly right that it’s pointless to generalize. I’m around a lot of radically different kids from very distinct socio-cultural backgrounds. Some are fantastically happy and well adjusted. Others are good kids struggling in a bad situation. Still others come from horrible situations and perpetuate the horror. They have very little world outlook in common.

    Regarding what David Bowen says about drugs and hedonism and change, although that’s often true with old faves like pot, mushrooms, heroin, etc., I have yet to see any world changing thought or art coming out of poisons like oxycontin and methamphetamine. Soul sucking hedonism is more accurate. Total surrender and defeat in the game of life.

  305. mw

    Ha, I’m so out of it that I didn’t even know the in crowd wore scarves. What? No berets?

    Oh, and in the above post I see I left out kids who come from very good situations and turn their lives into horrors. Lots of them about, especially in smaller town and rural U.S.

  306. mw

    And now for something completely different… Regarding our ongoing conversations about sequencing and/or repetition in slideshows, I notice there is an Elliot Erwitt show in London that features his work in sequence.

  307. eva

    Paul… 10 bucks you, another 10 me, 2 or 20 this or the other reader.. it all piles up.. when I wrote the other day it was either shoes or Panos’ book I wasn’t kidding…not always it is possible, not for everyone in the same way, but sometimes we simply forget and take things for granted.. :)

  308. Sidney Atkins

    “Why do so many photojournalists wear scarves?”

    The women all wish they were Jody Cobb.
    The men all wish they were Jody Cobb in drag.

  309. Paul

    eva…
    Yes laughing, we’ve all made sacrifices for Panos’s book! Thats why everything i’ve shot this month is digital!! Anyway, well worth the money, will do it again imediately once Panos decides to publish his version of Imediate Family.
    Money is always a tricky thing, i know very well you and I don’t take Burn for granted and I am absolutely sure all the regular commentators round here don’t either. This place is so unique. Thanks to David and everyone else round here i’ve learnt such a vast quantity of photographic knowledge i will always be in debt with Burn!

  312. Paul

    Gordon…
    I haven’t had the chance to send you an e-mail thanking you for your thoughts on my photos. Spending all day Sat and Sun in the local park watching my kids and trying to teach them baseball. My wife has important exams next week and requires a quiet house and both kids, father and also dog are not the quietest of beings. So thanks until tomorrow when i will have slightly more time to write.

  313. Akaky

    I do not wish I was Jodi Cobb in drag. First, I dont have the legs for it, and second, I wear a scarf because the guy at B&H said my new digital camera wouldnt work without the scarf.

  314. a civilian-mass audience

    Beautiful day…
    I produced the best wine and our friend SIDNEY is here…
    thank you…
    you see when I am missing …my BURNIANS…I am not focused…
    and I can’t produce when I am out of focus…
    I might sound selfish but the truth is ….Yes, I am…:)))
    LOVE YOU ALLLL…

    EVA…now,I sell my wine and I won’t take things for granted…!

    P.S…hmmm…I better stop tasting it though…

  316. Ross Nolly

    Akaky “I wear a scarf because the guy at B&H said my new digital camera wouldnt work without the scarf”

    This is an actual buyer review for a Nikon F6 camera on Amazon

    “Camera will not work with CompactFlash or other digital media. You must buy a cartridge of tape, which allows for just 24 shots. No LCD screen with image playback. Very disappointed and returned.”

    Better still; “171 of 453 people found the following review helpful” :-)

  322. michael kircher

    Kenneth…

    To be clear, I was only suggesting it sounded like something Akaky would write… his kind of humor. I don’t believe it was actually him. I think it was a sincere review. Which is just sad. ;^}

  326. Akaky

    To clarify, I use the following:

    Canon EOS 1n
    Canon EOS 7NE
    Canon EOS 50D
    Canon EOS Rebel XT
    Canon FD F1
    Canon FD FTb
    Canonet QL17 GIII
    Canon Powershot 630
    Canon Powershot 640

    As you can see, I am not qualified to make a judgement about the quality of the Nikon F6. However, I am skeptical about this whole tape cartridge concept. I doubt something like this will ever catch on. Remember how fast the 8-track vanished?

  332. Imants

    Scarves probably own about 230 plus at last count…started wearing them in SE Asia soaked them in water cooled the neck down,became habit.
    …………. hardly walk around with a camera, never hang a camera from my neck.
    Scarves are decoration, useful for packing fragile articles on trips………. there to be enjoyed

    http://www.etrouko.com/iman.htm

  333. panos skoulidas

    i can only talk about bandannas…and pirates and tattoos…
    no idea about scarfs
    The french love scarfs..they think its very artistic look…
    the greeks & palestinians also love wearing them in riots ..tear gas protection…

  337. Gordon Lafleur

    Akaky

    Hey most of those cameras of those of yours use the same tape cartridge don’t they?

    Curiously, I’ve been buying old film cameras, though I havn’t shot film for years. Just miss the cameras. The SOS, our local amazing thrift store keeps getting all these great old cameras and I can’t resist. I’ve bought Canon, Ricoh, Pentax, Minolta slrs, 10 to 25 bucks each. Got a Voigtlander rangefinder last week, like new, Yashica Electro 35 a couple weeks ago,..stupid, just can’t stop myself. I’m even thinking of finding some stainless steel developing tanks. Sold all mine a few years ago, but I did keep a couple enlargers, including my lovely old Leitz Valoy. Anyway, good fun. Keeps me out of trouble.

  338. Justin Smith

    Ross,

    Shit, that F6 review is great… I wondered if it might take a 36-exposure of tape…

    Never worn a scarf myself, but back in the old days of skateboarding & freestyle BMX, we were known to cut the sleeves from T-shirts and use them for hair-bands to keep the bangs from our eyes (circa 1988).

  342. david alan harvey

    CIVILIAN

    yes, a Burn scarf!! we have t-shirts and hats but no scarf…..wait, do we have hats? maybe only t-shirts..ok, we need to get on the hat and scarf bandwagon….and, yes, Burn bag…

  345. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY..

    that reminds me, i had better shave….and reminds me also that i completely forgot to send you the many pictures i have of you in New York..and yes Velvia….we have talked so much about Kodachrome, yet Velvia rivals…maybe only weakness of Velvia is that it is an E6 film and i believe destined to have a short life…but i hope someone tells me the contrary….

  346. Mike R

    DAH, my understanding of transparency film is that Kodachrome has the best dark storage whilst E6 (Velvia etc.) has better resistance to fading during projection.

    Good fortune in Rio,

    Mike.

  347. Paul

    David…
    Are you going to Rio with a set of specific written words like those you used for Divided Soul?
    Are you obliged by NatGeo to shoot digital, or is it up to you?

  350. david alan harvey

    MIKE R

    well since my originals in either Kodachrome or Velvia were/are rarely if ever projected, then this time is irrelevant…projection in my case was always from super dupes….my Kodachromes from childhood look perfect by the way…my E6 process Extachromes from the same era are essentially gone..faded beyond hope i think…

    PAUL.

    it is up to the photographer at NatGeo whether to use digi or film…..i am using digi on the Rio shoot….Rio is a less complex story than was my work on the Iberian diaspora….there is no real need to sit down and conceptualize it the way i did with Spain, pre DivSoul…also at that time i was new at trying to imagine how i could get a whole country into a 35 pages magazine piece, so the concept list became an imperative for me to work…

    Rio is about absorption/immersion whereas Spain was about an intellectual journey in terms of how i thought about it and how i shot and am shooting…

  351. Paul

    Been taking a look on Flickr at some of the Velvia groups. I had forgotten how much I loved that film, must be at least three years since I´ve loaded any in my cameras.
    I´ll buy some this afternoon if I am able to find anyone selling it round here.
    Thanks John Gladdy.

  353. Paul

    michael kircher…
    Brilliant! Michael use the iPhone for phone calls and get out and walk with some Velvia!!
    I´m into minds to ring my wife at work and ask her to stop at the local photography shop on her way home and get some 35mm and 120 Velvia!!

  354. Paul

    I would of loved to have shot
    this     with Velvia today. Did something I never do, I used the zoom on G10. Feel bad about it! I like to use that camera as near as possible to 50mm, just didn´t have the guts to get any closer!

  355. michael kircher

    Paul, Thanks. And yes, you should have walked over to that guy, smiled, nodded, showed him your camera… he most likely would have been flattered you wanted to photograph him. Nice shot anyway, though. Maybe he’ll be there again tomorrow?

  356. a civilian-mass audience

    PAUL…
    don’t ring your wife…she has to focus for the exams…
    and if you live in Spain and you want to get closer with your camera…be prepared for the Mediterranean temper(I guess you have already experienced it)…:))))))))))

  357. marcin luczkowski

    DAVID,

    If you will have a chance to find out what film Mrs. Sanguinetti use, it could be great. Thanks. The spring is near and I have to choose film I will use with my hassel. I think I will use kodak e100gx. But my film scanner is really shity and I don’t know what color I have with e100gx for real, and Mrs. Sanguinetti have a such marvelous color in in her series “The Adventures of Guille and Belinda and the Enigmatic Meaning of their Dreams”.
    It could hepl me choose one type of film.

    Velvia is great but the magenta filter is so annoying with pictures beyond landscape. but velvia is still a choise for me.

  358. andrew b.

    Went out for the Gallery Hop here in town Friday night, one stop was an opening for a project called “Discarded”. I liekd that they included poetry/narratives from some of the participants, and also from local writers who viewed the images and came up with pieces to accompany them…

    A perfect example of a project that is right in your own front yard – or perhaps on the curb across the street:

    Writeup:
    http://www.kentucky.com/2011/02/18/1638949/clicked-to-the-curb-transy-artists.html

    Some images and words:
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2084134&id=1064377692&l=8d79b61397

    Good Monday and good light, all.
    a.

  359. eva

    Talking about Kodachrome.. found a box full of photographs, neggatives and slides yesterday in my father’s house.. oldest silver gelatin print in perfect shape is from 1929, Kodachromes have no date stampes, but it’s all family stuff, so I can tell they’re from 1965, looking very nice.. a week of scanning ahead, treasure hunt..

  361. Paul

    Eva…
    What a coincidence my wife right now is pulling out a load of “old” BW photos I shot and developed of our kids. Brings back so many memories and it´s only seven years ago! So I can imagine what a surprise you must of had seeing so many lost memories!!
    Now, what is very irritating is I´ve lost my “touch” in the darkroom and even my wife has noticed it. Well actually she pointed it out! :( My latest BW prints compared to some of the seven year old stuff is just pathetic! Scratching my head because not only the B/W fibre prints but also my B/W scanned digital inkjet prints are superior!

  362. david alan harvey

    ERICA…

    yes, i would disagree with that one too, but impossible to write your own reviews!! emerging certainly does not mean no voice, it just means evolving voice…but reading his entire statement, he is basically right on it…he says some deserve to be here, some do not…but again which ones do and which ones do not?? no end to this discussion…and of course not even i think all essays are created equal..i publish a combo of the sampling of the best i see out there, with material we seek, with submissions, and some that are brought to us by caring readers…

    all i know is that Burn 02 is going to rock …..

    cheers, david

  363. Paul

    emcd…
    Well Paul Melcher maybe one of the lucky few or in fact the only one who did not have to train/acquire a visual voice and was just born with it.

  365. emcd

    DAH –

    I hear you, but wish that people at large would grasp that a journal for emerging photographers doesn’t mean that it exclusively shows the work of emerging photographers. This will, of course, be made abundantly clear through your plans for burn in the coming year, but until then, I wonder if “burn is an evolving journal for emerging photographers.” would benefit from a few more words :)

  366. katia roberts

    paul–

    no guts, no photos.

    erica–

    great to see you here. been missing you.

    DAH–

    let’s see some of your gladdy shots!

    gladdy–

    that link to your favorites blew my fucking mind. thanks.

  369. a civilian-mass audience

    Thank you MR. PAUL MELCHER…!
    Well,I have to give him credit…because I checked his bio…and he likes Philosophy…
    and that works for me…!

    EMCD is back…KATIA…EVA…
    come on my BURNING Ladies…!!!

    P.S…Today’s menu : first plate…Velvia!

  370. Paul

    Herve…
    Laughing! I don’t have a death wish! Maybe i just need to put one of those pj scarfs on!

    Yes Civi! I know very well the med character, i’ve had a couple of bad experiences.

  371. a civilian-mass audience

    PAUL…we love you…:)))))))))

    back to the mountains…
    keep the spirit BURNING…I will be back!

  372. a civilian-mass audience

    and to all my friends down in Libya…stay strong…i will be back to open the house…
    in case…you need a place to stay…I am not that far…

  373. david alan harvey

    ERICA…

    i think you are right…we might just want to re-describe slightly…as you well know, the iconic photographers have always been part of my online world, even before Burn at Road Trips…i think as usual some reviewers skip over a whole lot of quite unique stuff here, like our grant and like our payments to photographers and like our actually having so many of us having actually met in person in various parts of the world and having books , real books, come out of our union here..no there is more to Burn than that simple review reveals…but i am also the type who always believes in the right things happen at the right times for the right reasons…we do not need to toot our horn….anyone who really looks will see all that i say and more and anyone who doesn’t is just missing out on the party!! smiling…

    cheers, david

  374. david alan harvey

    PAUL

    i am with you on that…nobody likes for a lot of effort and hard work and talented collaboration we swept into one rather quite inaccurate sentence…on the other hand it is nice to be mentioned by any European publication , particularly a French one…so anyone who journeys over to see what we are all about will find their own truth….

    KATIA

    my John Gladdy pictures? not sure what you mean unless you are talking about Speakers Corner…i have seen about three sets photographs of this project and honestly am at this point not quite sure which pictures John wants to include in his final edit…for one of the sets we (John and my crew) could not agree on the presentation..after that a couple of the best pictures surfaced when John popped a link up here..everyone here has already seen these pictures….that still leaves a huge outside audience however…..so at some point there is no doubt the dust will settle and a mutually agreed upon set of pictures from Speakers Corner will appear…i have published John three times prior and intend to publish him again…however, when i see John i see a powerful portrait photographer most of all…i would love to see a collection of portraits shot in a short period of time…anyway, i am sure both John and i are mutually pleased that you care…thanks

    cheers, david

  375. katia roberts

    paul–

    good man.

    DAH wrote–

    “JOHN GLADDY..

    that reminds me, i had better shave….and reminds me also that i completely forgot to send you the many pictures i have of you in New York..”

    these are the pictures i was referring to.

  378. jorge prat

    Speaking about film aesthetics, I recently bought Christophe Agou’s recently awarded book (as best european photo book of 2010), Face au Silence. In my opinion is must have book. It’s a wonderfull reportage of inhabitants of a rural region of France, shoot allong several years. I’m not sure but looks like 35mm Kodachrome. Having been shooting digital from almost 2 years, I had forgot how important is the material or medium one chooses. Also I had forgot how wonderful and tridimensional is the look of 35 mm film. Agou’s images makes digital look like a lifeless medium, withouth any personal identity (after all every digital pic looks the same). Have me thinking…
    Of course Agou’s book is not just film choice. His images have great power. He is a very talented photographer. A great and refreshing discovery for me.

    Jorge

  379. Ross Nolly

    Erica;

    Funny; Melcher’s entire blog reminds me of someone who is only too keen to grizzle about what is wrong but not prepared to actually do anything to remedy the situation… Surely if you are one of the “50 most influential in the photo industry” it would be great opportunity to start a Magnum, VII or NOOR and only pursue work of the greatest quality?

  380. david alan harvey

    KATIA…

    laughing …oh THOSE pictures, smiling…well those need editing too…i think the reason i thought you might be talking about his work is that i think you had mentioned it a couple of weeks ago in some context, but you know i am not really sure..pretty easy to get confused around here about who said what…pretty funny…really is like a long family dinner table with everyone trying to make their point at once…. :)

  381. Ross Nolly

    His statement about World Press Photo made me laugh; “No slightly blurry, underexposed images. No, “look at me, I took these pictures with a broken down Holga standing on one foot” pictures. No, “I am so much more important than the story I am photographing” reportage. No, “look at my Lego skills dude”.

    Slightly elitist maybe?

  383. Paul

    Oh and BTW… I’ve also had far many, many more lovely experiences with the mediterranean character than negative. Very important little point. :)

  386. Jeff Hladun

    EMCD:

    ” “Harvey has taken upon himself … to display the work of those who have yet to acquire a visual voice.”

    I wonder if that is a typo?”

    Do you think he meant to say “vice”?

    (Works for me…)

  389. Akaky

    Panos, any day that finally gives Millard Fillmore, John Tyler, William Henry Harrison, and Franklin Pierce the full credit due them is okay by me.

  390. Kenneth Dickerman

    RE: pm review. reviews are reviews. good when you agree with them, bad when you dont :). pm, if you read his site over a long period of time, is a bit cantankerous and, yes, grizzled. kind of like having drinks with a bunch of photographers :). but most important, as this group seems so well at doing, is just putting one foot forward, moving ahead. tally ho!

  391. Kenneth Dickerman

    I should read more carefully. La Lettre is not what i thought. I thought the review was on his “thoughs of a bohemian site.” okay, gotta read more carefully. but my point still stands. and, well, his review seems somewhat more positvie than negative. but once again, a review is a review….

  393. david alan harvey

    KENNETH..

    we have your work..thanks for your patience…

    LeLettre not a bad review, just not complete…hey we were in the #1 slot for his mentions…he just is not the type who puts out a lot of positive energy anyway….i think what we got is his best effort at optimism…

  395. Ross Nolly

    Off topic I know but… Sitting here watching live footage of the 6.3 earthquake that has only just hit Christchurch (again). Much more damage and looks like casualties this time. Surreal and bloody scary live footage from the CBD. Life can change in an instant…

  398. mw

    David, hate to post after the disaster news from New Zealand, but couldn’t help thinking about burn mechanics after watching the current essay for awhile. Hopefully, I’ll have something worthwhile to say about it in the proper place, but I’ve noticed that several times lately you’ve commented that an essay need not tell the whole story. So I find it interesting that you now publish an essay that makes a serious (and I think mostly successful) effort to do just that. Seems to be a pattern, you know. Seems you constantly challenge your biases, whatever they may be. Ever think about it along those lines?

  401. Imants

    Yea it is like watching a wall of water coming over the top of a river and spreading beyond it’s walls……….a layer of calm with a layer of foam, noise and fear on top. A separation of a “weird reality”

  404. Herve

    And Gheddafi’s bombarding civilians..
    ——————–

    Not to worry, help is on the way (smirk)…. As soon as the White House finishes descrypting Kaddhafi’s (french spelling) son’s speech … Hopefully, he won’t give another one! :-(

  406. eva

    Mike, Gordon, DAH.. thanks..

    Gordon, I figured you’d like that family portrait.. what amazes me is the quality of the print, incredible.. and obviously being my ancestors I’m looking for and finding resemblances not only in my face, but my kids as well..

    Tried to scan a Kodachrome or two.. seeing the results of John’s and Michael K’s scans I see it can be done, scanning transparencies I mean.. but I’m too dumb to get anything useful out of them.. they look so nice against the light, and so awful scanned.. not gonna shoot transparencies, nono..

  407. Paul

    Eva…
    Very nice portrait, like to see many more.
    Well nothing has changed! Same developer, same paper and same film. OK the only things different are the cameras, but that nothing to do with it. I think it is again another case of trying too hard as usual! Just so you can get an idea in the difference in quality is the fact that I had some worked printed by the same printer Pep Bonet used for his famous essay on kids “One goal” and my wife had and I had a little argument, as I said these prints in this folder were not printed by me! I mentioned there was no way I could print like that and so she went out of her way and proved me wrong, found the photos this printer had done for me and I was quite surprised.
    Anyway I am not in the least worried if I´ve been “there” I can get back there.
    I think it´s time to start enjoying photography again, letting loose, and stop over conceptualizing photography in general!

  409. eva

    Herve.. on Saturday our prime minister said he would not disturb Gheddafi, since he seemed to be a tad busy.. today he (PM) cries scandal.. too many economic interests involved..

  412. marcin luczkowski

    Paul,

    Rangefinder camera is the best if you want take a pictures of people from shor distance. the best if you are interest in the kind of photography only.
    and mostly quite difficult. much more than modern slr.
    But somehow in my case this difficult make my photography much much better than any slr and dslr for sure!

  414. marcin luczkowski

    John,

    Yes, rangefinder is not for everyone. First time I had voightlander bessa-r. Have been stolen. Then M6 and I was pretty sure I like working with RF. Best camera for me. But Leicas M are so bloody expensive that I have to be more careful for it and now I am looking for very cheap slr. A camera I could be very rude for. I think I will buy minolta xd7. I wish I could buy r6.2 or any Rs, but too expesvie for me.
    I need a camera which I could treat like a shit.
    and my m6 is quite lifetime camera. I have to be nice for… well… nicer, because I am not nice for it.

    And very nice series of photos John!

  415. john gladdy

    Marcin. I treat my R’s like shit. Until DAH gave me one of his domke bags they would be slung in any kind of bag I had to hand…been all over the world with them, through monsoons, dropped many times, lots of tape covering them….never failed yet. lenses and bodies are well over 20 years old. Get them serviced every couple of years and they should go on indefinately. I have a mint unused body as a spare/spare parts….have never needed to use it. They build good cameras those germans.

  416. john gladdy

    I also treat my haselblad H like shit. It though is nowhere near as robust as either the R’s or its ancestors and many bits have fallen/broken off of it…Still makes a lovely frame though.

  417. Paul

    John Gladdy…
    You have one hell of a gift!! Beautiful and yes rangefinders are not for everyone. I had an M6 hanging round my neck/shoulder for 12 years day in day out. A moment of stupid inspiration made me sell it and now I miss it to death. Anyway I´ve got my Fuji 6x7III which is one cool beast but it isn´t subtle at all.
    Talking about Leica Rs one of my pupils had a mint R6 at this years workshop and he adores that camera. He let me try it out for awhile there is something so special about focussing a Leica so smooth, I don´t know I´m not eloquent enough writing to explain this. Something everyone should try out.

    BTW you did see my post was a link?!!

  419. Paul

    Well I´ve always taken great care with all the four Hassy 503s I´ve owned through out the years. Three of them were bought brand new and every single one has let me down at some point. Granted I used them a hell of a lot. I sold the last one off about 2 years ago and last year I began to miss the square format, stupid me thought I was missing those damn Hassys so I got a second hand one in mint condition… Now sitting in my cupboard broken as usual, needs repairing and I refuse spend another penny on that bitch

  421. david alan harvey

    HERVE…

    Paolo Pellegrin Cairo essay is in the works and coming….you in a hurry? Egypt is important even after CNN leaves you know…we are also working on the text issue…trying to find the right writer….it will be worth the wait…

    cheers, david

  422. david alan harvey

    MARCIN…

    yes of course i have always preferred rangefinders as well…Leica M6 my favorite camera of all time, and the M9 as well(most expensive camera of all time)…for med format i use the Mamiya VII and the Fuji 6×9, both big Leicas….the one non-rangefinder camera that i love is my GF1 which is with me at all times…

    it is all in just whatever you are used to and what makes you feel comfortable…if it seems right, it is right…

    JOHN GLADDY..

    again dude, the portraits are your thing….nice

    cheers, david

  425. eva

    Question to all who might know:

    can I put a silver gelatin print in the hot press if it is signed on the back with pencil and an ink stamp?

    Post office managed to crack the box and bend the print.. surface is not broken.. I guess I’m right assuming I cannot put it in water with the signature and stamp without damaging that..

  426. david alan harvey

    EVA

    i think if i were you i would just use weight to flatten…water would not hurt it, but yes would damage signature and stamp…hot press probably will not hurt it either, but why take a chance? just use heavy books over a piece of cardboard on top of the back of the print for a few days

  429. david alan harvey

    EVA

    there is no risk to the print with the hot press…everybody dry mounted silver prints for years…killed the print because of the sticky paper eventually but not because of the hot press….the only thing i would worry about with the heat, is if the print was not well washed in the first place ..the heat could bring out any unwanted chemicals in the fix bath…i do not know the nature of the stamp you have …heat would not hurt the signature…why can’t you just frame the print unmounted with archival museum corners? that will flatten it forever…

  430. marcin luczkowski

    JOHN,

    I know R cameras are very well built, for all hard conditions. But I need a camera I could completly lose without regret. It’s mean very cheap one. A few days ago I almost smash my F90x and a month ago I almost lose my d200 by liquid bronze when forms changed into volcanoes. And even if f90x is very cheap camera I don’t want loose my lenses with. I think minolta for 20-30$ it will be something I will not regret if I lose one :)))

    and rokkor is quite fine I think :)

  434. Gordon Lafleur

    Eva

    I have copied and restored many old photos like that. Old contact prints, even from simple box cameras often contain a startling amount of detail not visible to the naked eye. They scan wonderfully and can often make stunning prints much larger than the original. If the image has faded and/or the paper base has yellowed or turned dark, a 10 sec curves adjustment in photoshop will reveal all. I’ve scanned tintypes which look almost totally black, then with one click of the white point dropper had the image magically appear like a print in a developing tray.

    I make family portraits for a living http://www.gordonlafleur.com/photos/gallery_families20.html
    I love knowing how important and precious these portraits are to people, and that they will be treasured.

  435. Gordon Lafleur

    Marcin
    Hasselblads are awesome cameras, cursed with one of the worlds most useless focusing screens. These screens are so bad that they spawned a whole industry of third party replacement screens for the beast. Mamiya TLRs and RZs have great screens. You used to be able to buy a complete Mamiya TLR (with a great focusing screen) for the same price as a decent focusing screen for the Hasselblad.

  437. a civilian-mass audience

    ROSSYYYYYY…
    “Humans can live about forty days without food, about three days without water, about eight minutes without air, but only for one second without hope”
    as an earthquake survivor…I have to say this…
    Speechless…BUT…
    may the spirits of the earth calm down…and be with you and all of us…

    P.S …we are such a big family…it’s overwhelming sometimes…even for your civilian…
    LOVE you ALLL

  438. a civilian-mass audience

    ALL,
    don’t forget to watch our BRYAN HARVEY…
    http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/presidents-photographer-fifty-years-inside-oval-office/308189
    maybe you can try …
    Netflix… “Fifty Minutes Inside the Oval Office with Pete Souza” for those of you …
    who are BURNING in USA…
    and Happy President’s day…

    for the rest of us…
    we can only watch some presidents…killing their civilians
    and the oil prices…abuse our “existence”…

    BURN my BURNIANS…BURN!!!

  439. eva

    Hehehe, Civi.. you got the wrong Harvey kid, that’s Erin, Bryan’s lil bro.. didn’t know til a few hours ago!

    David.. I’m sure the print is well washed.. just don’t want to show neither stamp or signature on front by pressing the thing.. perhaps I overworry.. if the weight of the books wont do I’ll frame it.. thanks for the tips!

    Gordon.. thanks for that link, I’ve seen your mother-daughter pictures (some), but these family portraits were new to me..

  440. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…no way?!!!

    so, we have another BURNING son…oime…in the same family …?
    too much …even for your civilian to comprehend :)))))))))

    BRAVO to my BURNING kids…i knew it…we are a BIG family !!!

  441. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…the photo …amazing!!!

    Why you don’t send the print over…I can sit on it…best press of All :)))

  442. eva

    Civi.. yes yes, talented bunch those Harvey’s, I just found out this morning, funny thing!

    Ehm.. my (sitting) press.. is, I’m 100% sure.. bigger than yours ;))) .. and yes, the photograph is amazing indeed!

  444. david alan harvey

    CIVILIAN..

    yes, people get confused…i have two sons, both making films..Bryan, Erin….Erin the youngest, who did the Obama piece, has also been the Dir of Photography for a French romantic thriller feature, Autumn (2006) check out the short trailer for this film….. http://www.autumnmovie.com/assets/video/autumn_trailer_high.mov …both do docs for several networks etc…both traveled around the world with me as youngsters and i guess the wanderlust bug bit hard…they have both way surpassed me in international intrigue…my work is tame, they do the crazy stuff…adventure and craziness aside, they both seem to have a good eye….and a sense of film editing i do not have

  446. Ross Nolly

    David; Thanks for the kind wishes but I’m fine. I live in the North Island whereas the quake hit Christchurch in the South Island. Basically NZ is one big fault line and a big one is always on the cards; but that doesn’t lessen the impact to people when it happens.

    Marcin; have a look at KEH camera brokers in the US. Ex Nikon F3’s for about US$169; for some reason cheaper than the FM2’s… Either of those cameras and manual 28 or 35 and you’ve got a very inexpensive package. KEH are VERY conservative in their quality ratings too. Their bargain grade is the equivalent of most shop’s excellent.

  447. david alan harvey

    MARCIN..

    yes of course very proud

    ROSS

    ok good…well just stay out of harms way…and we should be ready for skype edit soonest…i leave for Rio on March 1…so you should catch me before i go or not until April…

  451. a civilian-mass audience

    “Children learn to smile from their parents.”
    Shinichi Suzuki

    I believe that you and the lady Mama deserve some credit…!!!
    and for the AUTUMN movie…hmmm…I need my French people…AUDREY,HERVE,MR.VINK…
    oh,well, I can’t wait..
    J’ADORE…!!!

    and because in BURN we do tell it as it is…you might need some help with your film editing skills…
    BUT what do I know…I am just a civilian with the best wine in Grecolandia!

    P.S…tonight wine on me and the door is open for my NZ and Libyan friends. Viva !!!

  452. bob black

    DAVID/ALL:

    Just a brief update as I’ve just returned from the head of Ophthalmology at St. Michaels/Univ. of Toronto….

    Firstly, David, I want to thank you for calling. As always, I enjoyed our conversation on Saturday (I sent you an email on Sunday). I feel good and positive and i’ll be following up with you this week on the other 2 photographers I mentioned. I really appreciate you concern, love and laughter :)

    Secondly, thank you to everyone who has sent me emails/notes/facebookmessages/Burn notes. I haven’t had a chance to write/reply to everyone, and most likely will not have the chance. But I greatly appreciate all the love and support and i’m keeping you all in my thoughts and good energy. :)

    The update: good news: the eye has responded to the meds and after 2 horrific weeks, the eye is clear, without discharge/swelling/pressure/excretion, and i no longer have the pain or migraines. The good news is that, as it did 5 years ago, the eye has responded to the meds and for now, i am slowly getting back to normal. The doctors will not remove the eye. However, the doctors predict that there is a high possibility that at some point in the future my lens (which is torn from the cornea) will completely disintegrate (it has already partially distintegrated, which produced this problem 5 years ago and then 2 weeks ago)….If (and the doctors seem to think ‘when’ is a more likely scenario) the lens disintegrates completely or detaches itself fully, the eye will have to be removed….prognosis, with a mature eye/lens already being torn away and partially disintegrated, the docs place the odds at 80% it will fully disintegrate and an enucleation will have to be performed….

    when?…

    the doctor said, ‘well, bob, that’s the 1,000,000 question. a week, a month, a year, 5 years, 10 years…we just don’t know…it’s happened 2 times in 5 years, it’s likely it’ll happen sooner rather than later and we must advice you that formally in writing…’ etc etc…

    so how do i feel….

    well….it’s time to finish my freaking photobook….

    for the near future, i’ll not write as much here, but will try to write under essay….and from time to time offer something thoughtful under the discussion…

    but for now, must strengthen my eye, body and spirit….

    dah, you’ll have my landscapes sometime in march…promise…russia and this were a distraction….

    hugs
    b

  453. Carsten

    Gordon,

    Thanks for the link, interesting stuff. Yeah Fuji’s got a very clever campaign supporting this launch… looks like the one and only really important factor, image quality, is going to be great, at least it looks that way from various images that have surfaced (for example, check out all the pics at the link I posted).

  455. a civilian-mass audience

    BOBBY…our HOMER…
    “The artist is of no importance. Only what he creates is important, since there is nothing new to be said. Shakespeare, Balzac, Homer have all written about the same things, and if they had lived one thousand or two thousand years longer, the publishers wouldn’t have needed anyone since.”
    William Faulkner

    Well…I have to kinda disagree with the above quote…because Artists ARE Important…!!!
    and you MR.BOB BLACK …you are an artist !!!

    P.S … and WE LOVE YOU!

  456. bob black

    ken :))….thanks amigo….will hopefully see u when i come down in the summer…..

    Civi :)))…i love you (and y’all) too :))))>…u sure know how to make a wearied guy happy :)))))…hugs

  458. Paul

    Justin…
    Strange very strange I´ve been out all afternoon and evening and I was climbing into bed and for some reason I knew I had to take a look at Burn…
    Well I feel thoroughly overwhelmed by your offer. I just need to explain a couple of things…
    I posted that rangefinder link so everyone could have a laugh with these true life obsessions some people have with gear. About two years ago I sold my Leica M6 in a stupid fit of “inspiration” I thought I was done with film and I was convinced I would never think about shooting film ever again. Oh I was so wrong! It only took me a month to miss that camera and every time I see an M series camera it hurts. So although I was in no way thinking of getting a rangefinder because as I said I this morning I was skint – ouch didn´t that roll of 35mm Velvia hurt this afternoon…10 Euros! Is that expensive or am I just too poor? I am interested in a rangefinder but only one! But anyway we will keep on with this conversation be E-mail.
    So thanks for now Justin and also thanks to DAH for such a marvellous playground for all us to be together!

  459. Paul

    Bob…
    Hoping to see that landscape essay soon!! But first of all rest as much as possible and take good care of you and your family.

  460. Paul

    Marcin…
    Yes of course Leicas are more expensive than second-hand Nikons and Canons. BUT they don´t loose much in value, so if you pay 800 Euros it isn´t difficult to get those 800 back and sometimes who knows a little more or less. They are usually “good investments”.
    So you are searching for a good cheap second-hand camera… Try and get a Pentax MX or ME super you should be able to find one going for around 150 Euros with 50mm lens. Both the 50mm 1,4 and 50mm 1,7 are great lenses.

  461. Ross Nolly

    Paul; Before going digital I used to import my Velvia and Provia from the US (40-50 rolls per time). Used to cost me about NZ$9 per roll; compared with up to NZ$29 in our shops. And that was about 5-years ago! Ouch indeed! :-)

  462. Paul

    Ross…
    Don´t quote me exactly with this but if my memory isn´t fading I remember paying 190 USA Dollars for my 4×5 Velvia Quickload film. Just can´t remember if that was two boxes of film or only one!

  464. panos skoulidas

    MICHAEL KIRCHER …
    THANK U..I GOT IT…
    (ALL..i had a car accident today but im fine..insured and everything…no worries..all parties involved alive..car wrecked…)

    MichaelK…check your mailbox soon…going to post office tomorrow!

  465. panos skoulidas

    AndrewB…. u r next…
    love u all…
    i feel so happy..im alive…only bad thing is that my passenger ended up in the emergency but..but…but…only bruises so far…nothing broken..phew…..

  473. Herve

    Egypt is important even after CNN leaves you know…
    ———————–

    I do not have CNN! ;-)

    If I may, I think what happens in Lybia, and the “deer in the headlights” response from the world (UN, but facebook too, so little there compared to Egypt, yet citizens are being mowed down by warplanes) is more important than Egypt, which pretty much was a script gone right.

  474. mw

    Bob, I’m very sorry to hear about your eye, had no idea it was so serious. Here’s wishing you the best, whatever that may prove to be.

  477. marcin luczkowski

    Paul,

    My M6 lose a half of the value I get it after 5 years. I am not a doctor, I use it.

    And m6 is very enpensive. It is a lot of films I could put in or paper or E6 process, a lot of canvas or other materials. I love to get second M6 or superb R6 or some contax but they not fallen from sky with rain. I prefer put something into bodies I have than buy next gear.
    Simultaneously I take a lot of pictures of my every day life in really badly conditions, when I have hands is plaster or in heat or in dust. Need separate camera for that.
    :)

  480. a civilian-mass audience

    If you are in Greece today…be prepared…general strike…
    my apologies for the tourists…But we have to do…what we have to do
    we got a message to do it …like in Egypt…hmmm…
    I used to love domino…not anymore …(

    and to My Libyan friends…be strong…we are so close and we can’t help…
    “Love and kindness are the very basis of society. If we lose these feelings, society will face tremendous difficulties; the survival of humanity will be endangered.”
    Dalai Lama

    We can’t lose these feelings…hmmm…easy for me to say…
    LOVE you ALLL

  481. a civilian-mass audience

    Go MARCIN…so you do take pictures !!!

    and PANOS…
    “On the occasion of every accident that befalls you, remember to turn to yourself and inquire what power you have for turning it to use”
    Epictetus (Greek philosopher)
    you are Greek…you can figure out the meaning…
    Best wishes!

  487. a civilian-mass audience

    ADMIN,
    can I say that…?
    I just peed my pants and I have to blame JOHNY GLADDY…But I am glad…he is around…:)

    P.S MARCIN…action,reaction…VIVA!
    I will be back

  491. panos skoulidas

    Formula 1 comes to USA again…cars mean shit to “us”..
    but as a greek…my greek soul would never hurt a donkey… but a car??
    ohhh please…fuck all cars!!!!!!!!!!!

  495. david alan harvey

    ALL

    there is something you might want to think about with Preston Gannaway…she does this work “on demand” every day at her newspaper…i am sure some days are better than others, but producing great work at 3pm at the corner of Granby and 32nd is no small feat and one of the primary reasons why some photographers are hired and others are not…everybody who is a serious photographer has most likely a great picture or two in their portfolio, but this is never enough to actually be commissioned ….

    it is the rare photographer who can shoot great all the time , every time…i do not know Preston, but i do know her work here and from her site and the job she is hired to do…the “on demand” ability is something we rarely discuss here but is probably the one single thing that separates the pros from the non pros….playing the role of editor here, i can imagine that if i needed a good pictures taken of just about anything RIGHT NOW, then Preston would most likely be a good choice for the job….AND her work also falls into the category of personal vision…so she gets paid for her personal vision…everyone wants this status…few have it….

    editors are rarely impressed by those who have great pictures of inherently dramatic material..they tend to think “well anybody can take a great shot in Rajasthan or of drug addicts or war or of a super model ”…most editors want a photographer who can make anything/the everyday look interesting…

    for those of you contemplating a career in photography, which some of you do, then study Preston and others like her….this is how you get the job….nothing i can tell you illustrates this more than her essay…

    i do not mean this is the only way to carve out a niche in photography…i am only talking about one way to hit it as a working pro…this does not relate to those who choose the art path with galleries etc…that is another world..

    cheers, david

  496. david alan harvey

    JEFF…

    i am pleased you like Cristina Garcia Rodero…she is certainly one of the most talented photographers in the world and specializes in fiestas and ceremonies throughout the world….i helped bring her into the Magnum family a few years ago but she has been well known for 30 years prior…she is currently the only Spanish photographer we have in Magnum…..Cristina just does her thing…if you meet her , you would think she was anything but a photographer..which is how she gets into these amazing situations…keep your eye on Cristina always..she works all the time, and does brilliant work all the time….

    cheers, david

  499. eva

    David..

    Talking about Cristina Garcia Rodero, which book would you pick? You got it right with Salgado’s ‘The Americas’, which I got after you mentioned it here.. I trust you’ll be right with her’s as well.. thanks :)

  500. Mike R

    DAH, I’ve not commented on Preston’s essay yet; I’ve looked a couple of times but want to see it large i.e. not on a laptop. With regard to her ability to bring back results every time, yes, this is a special skill and one that requires effort. Because the act of taking a photograph is so easy, some imagine that producing top draw results is easy too. Yes, we all get lucky sometimes but staying at the top of your game requires serious effort. Rather like a visual athlete.

    Mike.

  501. Mike R

    Eva, my favourite Salgado book is Workers. It is epic in scale and yet manages to keep the multiple subject matters a cohesive whole (e.g. he shows the raw materials for manufacture being extracted from the earth, then being turned into a ship and then a ship being dismantled to become raw material for something else). The photography is wonderful and his empathy for his human subjects shines through). I’ve not seen any work from him in quite some time though.

    Mike.

  502. eva

    Mike.. I had ‘Workers’, ‘Africa’ and ‘Terra’ of his.. and got ‘Other Americas’ (got that wrong up there) which I didn’t know at all.. and if I had to pick only one of his books, it would be that one.. which is prior to the other books, if I remember correctly..

  503. Paul

    Jeff…
    I met Cristina Garcia Rodero last October. A marvelous charming and unassuming lady! She could be my Spanish mother-in law thats how normal she seems until you see her work. You then realize you in the presence of a whirlwind with a brilliant sense of humour! Shoots mostly BW film and digital for comercial stuff. She said she liked digital but prefered having film just in case. She told me on her last trip on her way back from South America she lost 75 rolls of Tri-X probably ruined at some local airport!

  506. Justin Smith

    Paul,

    Just replied to your e-mail. Sorry I took so long to reply – I’ve been offline for a while.

  508. bob black

    JOHN G! :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    g*&^%#!, you m*^#A%^! ;))))))))….i thought I was the burn house boy….i guess, i’m the cabin boy ;))))….i’m certain jim will love that (he does have a good sense of humor, though it rarely comes out here)……that is the funny thing….

    can u please do a weekly version….

    Panos-the-hot-tamale :))))…damn, bro…..take it easy dog, i though you were biking across america….is it the hot red ‘stang, or a rental?….glad to hear you and your companion are ok…but fro f*^# sake, be careful!…it’s like stephen wright’s novel ‘going native’ (btw, MANDATORY reading! ) :)))

    Michael :))…just being real, what else can we do but take the strain and stand up :)…thanks amigo…

    Akaky, Marcin, Paul, Eva, MW…thanks for the support :)))…\can’t keep a good man down :))

  512. Thodoris Tzalavras

    Spent the last couple of weeks working in the field… helping my uncle drastically trim a number of old almond and olive trees in order to revitalize them…

    the population of the village where my mother comes from has been steadily dropping for a long time now and today it counts only 25, plus a handful of domestic helpers from Vietnam (!!)…

    a few people from nearby villages gather each afternoon at the (only) coffee shop to play a quite complex card game called pilotta …

    the picture is a composite of three successive frames:
    http://tzalavras.com/Random_pics/Arminou_23_02_2011.jpg

  513. eva

    Thodoris, the left side of the pic could have been taken here.. and reading through your comment.. I see a story there..

  514. Paul

    Thodoris…
    Interesting idea this composite concept…perhaps you should keep on with the series and just see where it takes you and just as a way of having fun! BTW I love the overall colour/tone of the image, rather refreshing from all the usual digital over-saturated look.
    Keep all those branches you´ve trimmed for next years chimney :)

  515. john gladdy

    DAVID ..too much time on my hands??? I WISH. At the moment I am working on contract flat out 5 days a week. Three full time editing assistants to manage, bags of paperwork(god dont you just hate paperwork) , and right now I am at home cutting a funding trailer for a documentary for my brazilian producer as a favour.(deadline tomoro lunchtime) Oh and did I mention the tour posters and promo shots for the band I am going on tour with at the end of march??….back against the wall is the only way to go. So I snuck in 30 minutes break yesterday and made a little cartoon…So fire me already :)

    Talking of that, it struck me that while most people could see that this was firmly tongue in cheek, and GOT the humour of it; if I had just typed those comments in i think people may have been genuinely offended by some of it. Considered rude at the very least. Very difficult to convey a quirky sense of fun through just words on a blog. In a bar or around a dinner table( and , it seems, with animations), easy to get…but just type the words and people cant ‘read’ that its meant to be just poking a bit of fun. Go figure.

    JOHN

  516. panos skoulidas

    JOHN…
    i mean seriously “that” was brilliant….
    i mean YOU are brilliant!!!!!
    sense of humor at its best…Monty Pythons stuff…
    for me, that was the BEST ESSAY of the year, by far…so far…
    man u made my day!

  518. a civilian-mass audience

    We,BURNIANS can take a tongue in our cheeks
    oime…what shall we do with these Brits?:)))

    THODORIS…
    homeeeee…hooome…
    pilotta for you…vida for me…I declare you …the dealer!

  521. Frostfrog

    Just thought I would drop in to say a quick “hi” so you folks know that I have not forgotten. Sadly and blessedly, I am busy virtually minute of the day from the time I get up to the time I go to bed and as much as I want to, I cannot hang with this forum.

    Daylight is on the dramatic increase, spring is coming on and I suspect that I will stay in this extreme state of business at least until darkness sets in again late next fall.

    But I will try to get back here now and then and take a little time to see what you are all up to.

    Cheers – and Civi, keep everyone smiling!

    Thodoris – I am afraid your package never did arrive. It has been long enough now that I doubt it ever will. Somewhere, it got lost in the mail. I really wanted to see it, too.

  524. Jeff Hladun

    David, Paul:

    Thanks for the background info on Rodero. She is a gem!

    John Gladdy:

    I’d happily come by and thrash you a good one for dissing on a Canadian boy, but luckily for you Mrs. Donkey feels – until the eruption settles – I should paint the walls instead. In Lascaux-style, perhaps?

    very funny…….

  525. david alan harvey

    JOHN GLADDY..

    i agree…seems to me that everyone here totally saw the cartoon as tongue in cheek..i thought the link extremely witty, said so sincerely, sent to some of my friends, and was being witty back…wit generally sets up wit in my case ..i wasn’t heaven forbid REALLY asking for your time accounting…but since you gave it anyway, i am pleased you are outrageously busy…this is good…you joining us Rio? that email was a no joke invitation…peace

    cheers, david

  527. david alan harvey

    PANOS..

    it is pretty hard i think for anyone to steal your pure showmanship around here, but John did give it his best…i want to know how to do those cartoons…very cool…running out to dinner DC..back to skype with you and your bride a bit later…

    EVA…

    i originally fell in love with Cristina’s Rituals of Spain….can’t go wrong IF you can find that book…also try Rituals in Haiti… more likely to find this book and it is just amazing…Cristina sticks with the same theme…a woman to be admired for sure…

  534. Gordon Lafleur

    Pete

    Thanks for the link. Very cool. Kinda’ sobering.
    Digital has changed the way we approach making photographs. There are an un-limited number of frames. Seeing what McCurry did on this one roll is very impressive. However, I’m thinking, he likely had digital cameras along, and would whip out the one with the Kodachrome when he recognised the possibilities on the back of a digital camera. That is probably what I would do if faced with the same situation.

    Like many photographers, when first shooting digital in a paying situation, I shot film as well as digital.
    I remmember the last time that I shot film on a paying job, Jan. 2004. It was a group shot of about 30 people. I was perched on the top of a 50 gallon oil drum, Mamiya RZ precariously attatched to a tripod, and shot off a roll of film. Then I grabbed my then new 6mp Canon Rebel with a 24-70L lens, and took a flurry of shots hand-held. We ended up using the digital files which printed beautifully.

  535. mtomalty

    Gotta say I’m pretty underwhelmed by that last roll of Kodachrome series.
    Mostly nice,classic McCurry images but,as a project,’celebrating’ the last roll it didn’t seem like
    much thought was put into it. -3 images of DeNiro. Gimme a break

  547. eva

    David…

    Thanks.. went on a search and found the books, used french editions, cheaper than the english by quite a lot! And there’s a new book by Cristina Garcia Rodero coming out at the end of March, Transtempo..

    Thanks Jeff, for bringing it up, I had seen her work on screen, but never got a book, don’t really know why.. and to Justin Smith (I think it was him?) for the review on Christophe Agou’s book..

  551. david alan harvey

    EVA…

    should you get to Madrid anytime soon, i will give you Cristina’s contact information…you will find her a delight to be sure…of course catching her is the problem..she is out there working all the time…maybe her only weakness is a total inability to edit down her own work….everyone who is around her jokes about this…imo anyone would have a problem reducing the number of her pictures for a show or book…she has so many at the top…

    cheers, david

  553. david alan harvey

    FROSTFROG..

    pop in when you can Bill…i will try to drop in on your blog as best i can…always enjoy…your voice is always welcomed here on Burn

    PETE

    yes, i will find out about the McCurry taxi…..

    cheers, david

  554. eva

    David…

    Thanks a lot, will ask you when I go there.. looking forward to get the books in the meantime.. and being ‘out there to work all the time’ is the only way to have the problem she has, editing down top photographs.. I guess every photographer would love to have this exact problem :)

  555. Paul

    Eva..
    When I met Cristina Garcia Rodero in October she showed us an un-edited essay on Cuba. It was amazing but there must of been well over 100 photos in that slideshow and if I remember correctly it lasted two very long Cuban instrumental songs! After seeing that slideshow I really can´t bring myself to buying any of her previous work as that Cuban essay was just so amazing everything else pales in comparison!

  556. Paul

    When Cristina Garcia Rodero on Fridays would finish teaching art history at a well known Spanish university she would drive off in her car and head to these unheard rural villages, spend the weekend shooting images of the local fiestas and sleep in her car. Head back to Madrid on Sunday afternoon and off to teach art history on Monday morning once again.
    Now that is dedication and very big personal sacrifice…

  557. david alan harvey

    EVA…PAUL

    one must also look very carefully at what Cristina chooses….she is definitely not a street photographer in the sense of trying to turn the everyday into art….Cristina researches very carefully…..she puts her feet on rich ground …this does not take away from the work at all…quite the contrary, because many do this to no avail….the point is that while she may not be able to edit down to a few pictures shot, her very serious brilliant editing comes with what she chooses to shoot in the first place…look carefully

    cheers, david

  559. eva

    David..

    Oh, yes, indeed.. there is a .. roter Faden in German.. red line??.. already there before the actual shooting that ties the work together.. at least from what I can see online.. very very curious to see ‘Transtempo’, photographs from 1974 on from Galicia.. not street street as in going out and shoot, but tied through the cultural and local festivities, gatherings and simple countryside life.. it is fascinating to me, very close to home.. roots..

    Paul, any idea if she plans to do a book about her Cuban work?

  561. Paul

    Eva…
    Cristina is “planning” to publish a book…however she said her problem is finding time to finish the essay. I think she said the Cuban essay had been going on for about 10 years. Cristina put it aside to concentrate on other work she said it was consuming her! But she also did mention it perhaps would never end :).
    Just imagine “Between heaven and earth” mixed with the love and passion for South America like Divided Soul, all shot in BW, full of kids and created with that extra sensibility all you women have.

  565. Paul

    Eva…
    I was totally wrong when I mentioned her latest work was vastly superior to the earlier stuff. The latest is accessible the sort of essay you could take on bus and enjoy. Looking at the older work at the local library I now realize at least for my viewing I need to slow down. If I don´t pause with each photo I miss out on the subtleties and end up not enjoying it.

  566. jorge prat

    Paul, looking at her newest book of photograps mainly from Galicia, I was completly shocked. Loved every photo on that book. Wish I had the 40€ it cost.

    Speaking of spanish photographers, the other day I had a brief encounter with Alberto García Alix here in Madrid. I also visited Juan Manuel Catro Prieto’s studio…and played with his 8×10 camera.

  568. Paul

    jorge…
    Alix has just had an exhibiton over here in Palma de Mallorca and I managed to miss it. Extremely stupid of me!!
    Juan Manuel Catro Prieto must be the only other guy in Spain shooting 8×10 besides me! Well I´ve sort of left that camera for awhile too expensive!! Jorge be careful! You may fall in love with 8×10 contact prints if you haven´t already!

  570. jorge prat

    Paul:

    Alix is a cool guy, a survivor I must say. When you where talking here about D’Agata’s way of life, he probably pales compared to Alix. Anyway, I met him at my local camera store. He was with his assistant looking for a Hasselblad. So we start talking. Very nice. Of course I asked the obligated question: “do you use digital?”. He said no, he tought it was very boring and besides after taking a picture, he had to “dream” the image for a while after seeing it. He got a point after all. I was imediately driven to his very beaten up Leica M7. He told me hid really trashed his cameras so they did’nt last long.

    Regarding the 8×10, well what can I say. Is a dream, but I’m just to lazy to go that route. Some times I use my 4×5, but too much hassels. I kind of hate tripods after using them for years.
    If you have the chance, go and visit Catr’s studio. That thing must be a block in size.You would’nt believe the size of his darkroom.

  573. Paul

    Jorge…
    I don´t know Garcia Alix personally…but my best friend taught photography to one of his assistants. As you quite rightly say D´Agata´s life pales compared to a couple of stories I´ve heard about Alix!!
    I´ve also stopped using tripods since I´ve been on crutches I´m now using beer bottles and my wife and friends shoulders!!

  574. Paul

    Eva…
    I know it´s ridiculous and the crutches aren´t of any use as excuse… nothing stops with them. Worse thing is the exhibition was on from October until January… 3 months and I never managed to see it!!

  575. Paul

    Eva…
    Five days a week every afternoon in the bloody baking summer sun I “walked” or hopped across the local town after finishing rehab on my foot and walked round Graciela Iturbide´s exhibition. And that daily pilgrimage lasted 2 months and I´m convinced I´ve seen Graciela´s prints more times than she has!!
    I fell in love with her work and it wasn´t until I saw Cristinas Cuba work that I was blown off my feet again!

  576. Ross Nolly

    I have just received a copy of Tobias Zielony’s – Story/No Story, an amazing book… Now I’ve got 4 books to get through and my book buying budget is severely screwed for a long time to come!

    Miguel Rio Branco’s work is amazing, pity his books are so hard to find or priced through the roof.

    I’ve spent the last 3-weeks working from my folks place, and have also been photographing them as much as possible (for the first time really). I was trying to shoot in colour; but there is just so much visual distraction of general household items. So I think it will have to be in B&W. So far I’m pretty pleased with some of the stuff I’ve shot, but time will tell…

    It’s been a pretty muddly start to the year for me(for shooting), but I think I’ve got most of my ducks in a row for a big year of hard-out shooting. The hardest thing is having a ton of different ideas for what I would like to shoot and then whittling them down to what will work, and most of all what can be shot for the smallest financial cost. I suppose that is a type of editing too, editing down your ideas! :-)

  577. david alan harvey

    JORGE PRAT

    yes i think you are right..d’Agata life probably pales in comparison to Alix life…i have never met the man, but have certainly heard the rumors and you can just tell from the work as well…curious, but he really is not known much outside of Spain…very nice exhibition two summers ago in Arles however…

    PAUL

    i have not seen Cristina’s Cuba essay…i can only imagine….

  578. eva

    Ross.. yes, editing the ideas.. and time time time, and then with some more time, one picture after the other, it will build up its own story (with personal projects I think it is possible), by again, editing.. don’t know Tobias Zielony.. must look.. book budget is all dried up for the moment though..

    Paul.. I didn’t know Graciela Iturbide til I bumped into her exhibit by chance.. when travelling I always look what is up, up and down the road and stop by when I can.. ‘El senor de los pajaros’ is one of her pictures I prefer..

  579. jorge prat

    Hi David, so nice to see you again. ALix told me he was selling well outside Spain. I think he photographed a time where Spain was in the transition to democracy, and every one wanted to experiment with hard drugs and so on. I think heroin took a lot of his friends. He was lucky or really afraid of death…

  580. Ross Nolly

    Eva; I hadn’t heard of him either. Alec Soth recommended the book on his blog as one of the 10 best photo books of 2010. And; it is about teens; so I took a chance and had a splurge! Couldn’t really afford it as I’d just bought one of the Zoom 1H recorders, but what the hell…

  581. david alan harvey

    ok with all this discussion going on about books, i think this is a good time for an overall post..yesterday had lunch with Eileen Gittens , CEO/Founder of Blurb, who had some very interesting thoughts for us…anyway, let me get to work on this one

  582. Paul

    In my humble and usually wrong opinion D´Agata is photographing an experiment and Garcia Alix is trying his best to express his way of life and at the same time survive it.

  583. Paul

    I´m off! Pizza time and a chance to sit down and read “The Crossing: Border Trilogy” on my Kindle…
    Out of curiosity those of you are avid readers is it possible to compare writer´s styles with photographer´s styles? Who would be Cormac McCarthy or Hemingway in photography?

  587. panos skoulidas

    Frida Kahlo de Rivera (July 6, 1907 – July 13, 1954; born Magdalena Carmen Frieda Kahlo y Calderón)was a Mexican painter, born in Coyoacán. Perhaps best known for her self-portraits, Kahlo’s work is remembered for its “pain and passion”, and its intense, vibrant colors. Her work has been celebrated in Mexico as emblematic of national and indigenous tradition, and by feminists for its uncompromising depiction of the female experience and form.
    Mexican culture and Amerindian cultural tradition figure prominently in her work, which sometimes has been characterized as Naïve art or folk art. Her work also has been described as “surrealist”, and in 1938 one surrealist described Kahlo as a “ribbon around a bomb”
    Kahlo had a stormy but passionate marriage with the prominent Mexican artist Diego Rivera. She suffered lifelong health problems, many of which stemmed from a traffic accident in her teenage years. These issues are reflected in her works, more than half of which are self-portraits of one sort or another. Kahlo suggested, “I paint myself because I am so often alone and because I am the subject I know best.” She also stated,

    “I was born a bitch. I was born a painter.

  590. a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTFROGY…
    no worries…you can drop in and out…I will be Here and There…waiting…
    keep the lights on …Up there
    I have the ouzo and the feta cheese ready…
    don’t forget to bring the cat…hmmm…don’t ever make a promise to a civilian:)))
    Viva!!!

    Keep working my BURNIANS…I am busy too…preparing the house …more chickens,rabbits…cause
    “… least one million migrants, many of them from sub-Saharan Africa, are believed to be in Libya, hoping to reach Europe.”
    Love You ALLLLL…

    P.S…don’t get me started …painter…is my middle name:))))))))))))

  591. Kenneth Dickerman

    Paul

    RE: Alberto Garcia-Alix. Thanks for mentioning him and his work. I was not aware. As I’m sifting through whatever I can find on the internet (which im finding is not all that much) I am discovering a very interesting person and body of work indeed. Any suggestions on where I could look for a really good overview?

  592. a civilian-mass audience

    oups…MASSSS is my middle name…my apologies.
    Back to where…we BURN…simple English
    Back to our regular program!

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