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test… test… either my laptop is a mess… second post just disappear…
Laptop needs coffee too :(
well…. This site is going to be a labirint for me…
Joakim
You are very good street photographer. I enjoyed your site a lot.
Marcin
Why isn’t Ewan looking at the same thing as the man of du jour? Why? Can we get Ewan here?
A classic juxtaposition, nice image…
WHATS iiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnn the BAG
an adventure, no doubt.
jaokim.. i like your website – seems you are building a catalog of cities and working through each city vibe-by-vibe.
towards that end i was kind of expecting a london taxi in the london room.. yet you found a taxi with only one light working, under a filthy underpass.. and then shopping trollies in the thames.. and thats the london i love to hate..
david
Alright! Comments again! I know you’re still trying to make the best of it David and take in and respect everyone’s opinion–you really are wonderful at that.(not ass kissing!)–And I know things may change again as you see fit, but for the moment, Cool!
To the photo: Not sure… a little too loose, perhaps. I get the idea of it, of course. And these juxtapositions rarely fail to hit a socially powerful note… But I can’t help but be distracted by the half person on the right and the loss of part of the main subject’s head. Confusing. Awkward, I think.
Just another street photo.
LOVE this.
their features and expressions are so similar that it has
a kind of future/past thing going on for me.
and it’s a bit noir-ish, yes? i like that.
DAH–
cool, you put the comments back. :))
check your aol mail, ok?
hah, your comment made me smile, jim.
great to see you back. :)
Every photographer should be allowed one street photo. That’s it. I know the street is always there and people walk on it and beside it; but, come on. Enough! Winogrand took all the street photos, anyway, and had the good sense not to print most of them.
Very quick, as im literally racing home…but i just want to say
WELCOME BACK JIM! :)))…
really, im glad you’ve returned…wouldnt be the same without you…
ok, love the juxtaposition too, alot…and the wicked wicked expression and the big question, is , absolutely ‘what the hell is in that bag’ and why is that expression…
more later on sunday (i;ll check out the website then)…
gotta fly…
cheers y’all
bob
Dare I venture to argue? … I beg to differ, Jim…this not “just another street photo.” And even if you think so, you can’t negate this as a recording of a moment that Joakim experienced…why don’t you like it?
I think that Joakim’s intentional use of posters and imagery that is already there, on the street, makes for an interesting juxtaposition between the person who is actually on the street and the fantasy held within the advertisement…Young vs old, fantasy vs real…this older man could have been the vision of the younger man so many years ago…
Jim, I wonder if you ever think things like that when viewing the work of others…do you ever let your mind wander a bit to examine the possibilities and the relationships between the inanimate and the living, the real and the fake, the dreams and the reality, the photographer and his/her subject. I’m not trying to incite agitation, I just think, like others said before, that it would be nice for you to justify your thoughts and positions…it would be more useful to the photographers whose work gets posted…there is a difference between constructive criticism and criticism…
Joakim, I like it very much as well as the other work on your website…very interesting use of the posters…
Ok, just saw your comment, Jim…just one street photo, though?
Carrie, nothing deep to consider here. It’s a cool photo. There are a million cool street photos. They are like eye candy. Next.
No more street photos, Jim? Please say it’s not so … :) I don’t think a photo has to have a deep meaning, necessarily – sometimes, a quick slice of life is enough.
I like this image, Joakim – you’ve captured a great expression from a real character. That having been said, I think others on Joakim’s site are even better – some great images there.
All the best,
Andrew
Jim,
I still have a problem with your comments… not because I disagree with you always, but because I am big fan of photography… big fan of “photography” not a “good” photography only. If I have to be so restrictive as you I should have no pleasure with photography at all.
like I said it before… fireplace… book of masters… cup of tea… dog undre your feet….
this picture is not for me…
Big masters are only one part of photography… minor part of photography….
rest are just life and minds.
For me photography is a big book of life, and I always enjoy when I see someones work.
There is no problem to say this images is piece of crap for me but I didn’t see this kind of images on BURN so long.
Almost everything here is very good photography for me.
Of course this is not VU esssay but if I want to, I will go to Vu or noor or VII site to watch I want.
Here I see amazing piece of photography, humans life and humans minds.
beautiful stuff.
take care
Black and white doesn’t do anything for me anymore. This is mild.
Okay, I’ve gotta organize myself for this burn business. Time to submit.
have to admit that this for me is just another street photography “gag”.
Joakim has some much more interesting images than this on his website.
the “billboard juxtaposed with a pedestrian” photograph has been done to death. it feels like a cliche to me now; just go to pretty much any beginners street photography forum and this is what you will see – normally produced by a keen beginner who is excited at their vision of the world and how they have proved public aren’t (or are) like the faces in advertising! wow!
i don’t think that Joakim is this excited new street photographer. which is why i am more surpsised at this image representing his work.
Jim,
welcome back.
Let me disagree…in a way. First let me agree with Ben. One thing I refuse to do these days is to use backdrops like this in photos. I do think it is a gag or a pun. There have been lots of these discussions on HCSP and basically my feeling is that these sorts of photos dont go beyond the quick gag.
However, lets not discount street photography because there is a lot of really GOOD street photography out there. I would call David a street photographer. No, not in the Winogrand or gag sort of way, but still a street photographer. Or take Alex Webb, Trent Parke. Jacob aue Sobol. Just some names whose work is from the street but goes far, far beyond what I think you have in mind. Street phootgraphy can be good, great, bad, boring…like any sort of photography you can think of.
Jim,
That’s like saying “one-more shallow depth-of-field shot of blankety-blank pj shot in Tyler, Texas.”
Why do you photograph, Jim?
Oh, I forgot — for money only.
Street photography is an acquired taste and requires a certain amount of photographic sophistication to truly appreciate and understand… IMHO
Jared, I don’t live in Tyler, Texas. I live in Tyler County, Texas.
Like Winogrand, I take photos to see what things look like as photos. To isolate life within a rectangle, slicing the world into pieces and deciding what pieces I want to keep, discarding the rest. The world makes more sense to me when it’s contained by neat little rectangles. But there must be human contact. Personal contact. It’s people I want to understand by placing them in boxes of my own making. It contains their messy lives in small enough pieces I can make sense of them.
Walking around on the street shooting random strangers, though, is throw-down photography. Point your camera at enough random stuff – like Winogrand – and you will eventually produce something good. If you can sort it from the lint that surrounds it. Winogrand produced some great photos, but he produced many more average or worse photos. I’m not interested in random encounters. I never hunted squirrel with a shotgun.
Robert, the words “photographic sophistication” grate on my nerves. I don’t shoot photos for an elite clique. I try to shoot photos that say something to anyone that looks at them. If you only want to communicate with other “insiders,” that’s fine. Just not my thing.
But you got the point, right, Jim.
If you really think you can make sense of someone’s life by saying hello, before and goodbye, after you shoot them, then well, I guess I’ll leave you to live in your delusion.
It’s you who sounds elitist, Jim, fighting the good (straight, purposeful photography) fight you are… You said, you’re “not interested in random encounters,” that’s fine, but you’re just so damn dismissive, with not a whole lot to back it up, in my opinion. Most of life, is random encounters, hell, you probably met your wife by way of “a random encounter.”
Amazing how you can quote highly and then disparage Winogrand in the same paragraph. It’s like you’re battling yourself.
I guess you serve a purpose though, an example of close-mindedness for all to be wary of.
I haven’t heard of many photographers who shoot 51% keepers –
DAH – what’s your percentage? How many of your “clicks” would you consider publishable. Just curious. :)
I think you just threw a whole lot of really good photogs in to the “lucky” category.
I like this photo..
the diagonal lines..
the leg of the person entering/leaving frame…
maybe,
I just like the handsome man
staring at me….
and the older man saying..
‘yeah in your dreams baby..
in your dreams…’
**
jared, I’m just a redneck camera slinger. I just call ’em like I see ’em.
Jim, you have every right to your opinions. Street photography is simply a sub-set of photography. I’m not a big fan of some types of work myself. Not a big deal.
Hello, first post,
Ah, “street photography” I have to admit this particular photo doesn’t do anything for me, I’ve lately been less and less willing to try this kind of approach to photography, its a lost interest for me and I don’t exactly why, they just look more and more like each other. I’m almost sure I’ve seen a photo like this one in a different photo, the man/woman, the poster, the juxtaposition, its a big deja vu.
Everyone has a right to their opinions, but these dismissive one-liners are the only ones that can be construed as rude and arbitrary, and they’re the only comments I can imagine anyone posting work on Burn not wanting to appear under their work.
I mean, good or bad, the majority of the rest of the commenters try to treat the picture and photographer with a modicum of respect. Most rednecks I know value a certain level of respect…
Rafal and Ben..YES! posters, pedestrians, blegghhh…done to death…
but street photography? oh man, in the words of Elizabeth Barrett Browning:
How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
For the ends of Being and ideal Grace.
I love thee to the level of everyday’s
Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light.
I love thee freely, as men strive for Right;
I love thee purely, as they turn from Praise.
I love thee with a passion put to use
In my old griefs, and with my childhood’s faith.
I love thee with a love I seemed to lose
With my lost saints, — I love thee with the breath,
Smiles, tears, of all my life! — and, if God choose,
I shall but love thee better after death.
Street Photography..the thrill is on. Whether random encounters, rapturous relationships experienced but for a moment, a child’s smile, an old man’s wink, a young mother’s worried frown, an old couple’s devotion, a street preacher’s ferocity, a trio of sk8ters owning the street, a group of Parkour devotees bounding up tree trunks, a quarrel, a foreigner..the street is the world. Wherever there are streets there are people being people. It doesn’t matter what their nationality is or what country i’m in, people are universally human. i can walk around the same block over and over and over again and like a river that is never quite the same one moment to the next, the flow of human bodies and dramas and the complexity of their expressions and their interactions changes continually and i am enthralled. The street never holds still for me, is never patient if i fall behind and in fact, is ready to swallow me up if i am not strong enough for the force of all that humanity. But when i keep up, when i am electric, then the street is electric with me, it smiles at me and indulges me playfully, coquettishly. As willing and open as the street can be, in a moment it can draw in its head and leave me standing on a corner as dark and dangerous and threatening as any nightmare scenario.
If you don’t “get” the street, don’t care for the genre, well, good..then we won’t be bumping into each other or falling over each other on the corner of Main and Spring, Anywhere, World. If you do get it, love it, crave it..well, then you ad me, we should talk.
best
kat~
Joakim..man, i’m sorry if i just didn’t do your photograph justice. It has a lot going for it, light, expression, composition..but i have really just seen sooooo many poster photos that i can’t get excited about yours. Also, there is some sort of white band across the poster guy’s face that pulls my eye right to it and i keep trying to figure out what it is. Obviously this distracts from the powerful connection between both faces..it acts kind of like those black bars across the eyes in a porn photo. But really, you did a great job for this type of photo. Yours makes me wish i had never seen others like it because then i’d be blown away by your amazing capture. But as a street lover, Joakim, i respect what you brought to Burn by submitting this photo. More!
kat~
BEN…ALL
i tend to agree with you on this one in the general sense…as you correctly point out we have seen so many pictures of street people played up against ads…i just thought this one was closer than most at achieving some sort of coincidence…i mean this guy really does look like what Ewan will most likely look like as he ages..
after your comment about this shot not as good as some of his others on his web site, it made me realize that maybe you and others think that i choose the pictures for BURN from the photographer’s website…such is not the case…i do not cruise websites and then pick pictures..nor, do i choose my favorite picture from a set of choices by the photographer…Joakim sent Burn just this one picture…as do all photographers…they could easily send more than one, but it just does not happen…
if i were to see a picture i liked which then drove me to the photog website and saw something else i liked, then i would have to send the photographer an email asking for a re-submission etc etc..that would take man hours beyond the beyond..unless i get a staff of researchers/editors, photographers must just simply be responsible for what they send…period. often i jury shows or contests etc..and often i am familiar with a particular photographer’s work…many times i will ask myself “why did he send THAT one?” again, i must choose from the photographer’s own choice of representation…
JARED…
my own percentage of “keepers” from clicks??? i have no idea, but not very many… i should make it clear that i do not count clicks as pictures…i tend to think of situations, rather than clicks..in other words, on a good day i may have been in say five good situations, so i see that as five picture possibilities..within each situation i may have a lot of clicks..if one of those five situations works, i figure i have had a good day…all of the clicks should certainly be good on some mediocre pro level, but i choose very few “selects” on any given day..one or two usually ..but, event these are only “selects”, not necessarily long term “keepers”
for me the editing process comes in several stages…
in my final tight edit , i would be reluctant to show more than say probably 20 new pictures per year to my colleagues as an example of my work….with maybe only five of those really really working for me….
i am a very tight editor on myself….i have a very hard time even bringing myself to look at what i have done…i will procrastinate..do anything but look at my pictures…..i rarely enjoy looking at my own photographs…all i see is failure….i sometimes see photographers so excited to jump in and look at their own new work..that is definitely not me….
cheers, david
Thanks, DAH, for the reply.
Just illustrating the point, that every photographer knows, and surely Jim does as well, that most photographs we make, just aren’t…. right. To dismiss whole-cloth a genre and/or photographer, by saying most of their photos aren’t great, just irks me, especially when those “great ones” are head-and-shoulders beyond great.
Nice to hear a little about how you edit, definitely the hardest part of the game for me. I’ve no clue what makes a photo work, especially my own.
Fuck, theres SO MUCH to street photography….
it can be Winogrand, sure but it can be so much else. Eggleston, Soth, Power, Parr…..it can be people, it can be things, it can be landscapes…yes, even landscapes can be street photography. It neednt even be done on the street. The term street is such a misnomer anyway as it really encompasses other situations as well. To dismiss street is to dismiss a hell of a lot of great photography. Winogrand isnt the be all end all of street…he’s just a niche in a MUCH wider whole.
As an example lets turn to flickr. Here are some groups full of good work. Yes, theres great work there. Here is what street is for me, anyway.
It can be what Jim is thinking http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/ or http://www.flickr.com/groups/fds/ or http://www.flickr.com/groups/streetnoir/
but it can be:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1014216@N20/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/wehatesummerbutweloverothko/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/422091@N25/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/846306@N22/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/630055@N24/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/sayonara/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/oculi/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/ukiyo-e/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/figures_in_a_landscape/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/popbyveg/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/curatimusmaximus/
Jim Powers, you are jaded.
Joakim, I love this photograph. It makes me a bit weak in the knees. Yes, what is in the bag?
Lee
Hola, Jared! It’s not like Jim said “just another photo”…. He said just another street photo! :-)
David, interesting comment on being reluctant to look at your own work. This leads me to ask what are the moments in your photographic life that you look forward, and bring you joy? Are they more of a collective nature (sharing, tutoring) or can they still be a very personal realization, despite having dreaded failure all along?
I also wonder if others (un)approach their own work as you do, here within the BURN readership, but also within the networks you belong too (Magnum, natl GEO, etc…)?
Thanks.
Jared, I’m not a Winogrand fan. I don’t think Winogrand liked photos, I think he just liked the process of walking around pointing the camera and pressing the shutter (or was responding to some mental compulsion to do so). Otherwise he wouldn’t have left hundreds of thousands of exposures unexamined or even undeveloped (2,500 rolls). But whatever his success with street photography, it was years ago – he died in 1984 – and had said about everything that can be said with street photography by the time he died. So for the last 25 or 30 years, we’ve been inundated with images of New Yorkers on the street. What do you do with street photos except put them in a book and sell them to other “street” photographers?
No photographer shoots all keepers. The trash can or delete button is the pro photographers best friend. But Winogrand was a different situation entirely.
I think Szarkowski summed up Winogrand pretty well. Two quotes from Szarkowski:
“The technical decline of the last work was perhaps accelerated by Winogrand’s acquisition, in 1982, of a motor-driven film advance for his Leicas, which enabled him to make more exposures with less thought. On the same day he acquired an eight-by-ten-inch view camera, an instrument that proposes a diametrically different approach to photography. The new camera was perhaps an acknowledgment that his old line of thought was nearing the breaking point. He did not use the eight-by-ten, but he talked about using it…”
“When we consider the heedless daring of his successes and his failures we become impatient with tidy answers to easy questions, and with the neat competence of much of what now passes for ambitious photography. Winogrand has given us a body of work that provides a new clue to what photography might become, a body of work that remains dense, troubling, unfinished, and profoundly challenging. The significance of that work will be thought by some to reside in matters of style or technique or philosophical posture. There is no original harm in this misunderstanding, and useful work may come of it, but it will have little to do with the work of Garry Winogrand, whose ambition was not to make good pictures, but through photography to know life.”
@DAH
thanks for clarifying, for the record I was aware that it was the photographer choosing his/her submission. the old paradigm “photographers are the worst editors of their own work” springs to mind.
Winogrands “ambition was not to make good pictures, but through photography to know life.”
You said – “The world makes more sense to me when it’s contained by neat little rectangles.”
Same, same?
I’m still trying to figure out what Szarkowski said of any substance in those two paragraphs. A bunch of “was perhaps” of pure conjecture in the first, and what I would consider as a raving review in the second.
Somehow since 1984, quite a few notable “street photographers,” whatever that means, have managed to finagle themselves into Magnum, and are some of the most successful photographers of our day. Pulling the wool over our eyes, I guess.
No one will own up to the title anymore, but that’s still what they are.
Some more prolific than others, none more so than Winogrand. Since when is being prolific and consistently producing extraordinary work something to look down on?
I also try to understand life better through photography, what a shallow life it would be to be shooting just to make good pictures, or even, just to tell a story.
As a beginner photographer would I appreciate a short “constructive” comment or two on Jim’s approach to photography, in his words to “isolate life”, “slicing the world into pieces”, “neat little rectangles” and “placing them in boxes”. I understand we need to select in order to compose, but am aware that we as Western Industrialized Cilivisators have done that to the point that our pants will be getting burned in near future, never mind or throats and stomachs. In order to understand my environment, humans included, I’ve chosen to go the extra mile finding connections in as many levels possible. I’ve found it helped me. Out in the wild NO organism would survive in the isolation that we humans allow and even promote. There’d be no evolution, nothing. Jim, I don’t condemn you here and would appreciate your thought as well, as I’m keep looking for answers: what brought us humans collectively, i.e on all levels of thinking doing feeling or not feeling photographing getting published getting paid winning awards posting responses and all that to where we are. Thanks and a good weekend to all, Herb
David Alan Harvey
How would you like to be addressed here? Simply David, or DAH, Dave, Dave Harvey? Should we include Alan?
There are a few Davids about the place and I never know whether I should include Alan. Please let us know how you’d like to be addressed.
Best,
Paulyman (as my oldest friends address me. I used to hate it but now I like it)
Jim:
Gary died of gall-bladder cancer in 1984. From my previous readings on his history his work declined as he became ill and began shooting people in cars in L.A. If he was ill it might even explain why he bought a motor drive for his Leica in 1982 and why he bought but never used his 8×10″ View Camera. It would also explain perhaps why he left, at age 56 so much exposed and undeveloped film. Cancer has a habit of tragically cutting short the plans of many creative people. i would hardly focus on the last two years of his life as a synopsis of his life’s work. So, there’s this from from Jonathan Green’s excellent classic book “American photography: A Critical History”:
Winogrand’s achievement has been to take the haphazard world of the conventional news photograph and give that world coherence. Where the majority of viewers have dismissed the backgrounds of such images as irrelevant visual noise, Winogrand has trained himself and a new generation of viewers and photographers to find interconnectedness and unity in an ungainly world. When he succeeds, Winogrand adds immeasurably to our knowledge of both art and history.”
In any case, Winogrand is hardly the only contributor to the fine genre of street photography and the greats that came before him such as William Klein, Walker Evans, Helen Levitts, HCB, Robert Frank, and even earlier Kertesz, and Brassai and Steiglitz’ who did beautiful work in NYC would laugh if they could hear you snapping the lid shut on the coffin of street photography which has been going on since the camera became technically able to quickly (or even not so quickly) capture the energy of the street. As long as people are interested in people there will be a photographer taking photographs on the street.
“Street photography’s dead. Long live street photography.” (Michael David Murphy)
best:
kat~
kathleen fonseca
Wow. Such impassioned words. You make me want to hit the streets right now. Immediately. Cameras blazing. Fine words.
Too bad I have to scan today. But I’m scanning the streets all the way back to 1994. Monochrome, colour, slide and negative. Busy, busy. Tedious.
I have decided to deal with the archive before I gather new material. Time for the BIG BOOK.
Your sentiments have spurred me on and upon reading them I may allow myself a couple of hours to bike up into the park to photography those blackest of black creatures, crows. They are my current obsession. Then back to scanning.
Paulyman
Fuck, theres SO MUCH to street photography….
it can be Winogrand, sure but it can be so much else. Eggleston, Soth, Power, Parr…..it can be people, it can be things, it can be landscapes…yes, even landscapes can be street photography. It neednt even be done on the street. The term street is such a misnomer anyway as it really encompasses other situations as well. To dismiss street is to dismiss a hell of a lot of great photography. Winogrand isnt the be all end all of street…he’s just a niche in a MUCH wider whole.
If you don’t “get” the street, don’t care for the genre, well, good..then we won’t be bumping into each other
Kathleen Fonseca you seem like a very Groovy Person. I will look out for you.
Kathleen, you really aren’t required to be an apologist for Winogrand. The unprocessed and unexamined photos were piling up long before his death. He was a strange guy.
As for Winogrand’s success, give any average photographer an M4 with a wide lens, 10,000 rolls of film, and set them about the street’s of New York shooting people and “stuff” on the street, and I’ll bet you get some incredible shots – probably enough to fill a few books. Of course, not all of Winogrand’s books were successful. In fact, there were notable failures.
Street photography endures, I’m afraid, because the streets are available, cheap to reach, and can be photographed impersonally…all things that appeal to many photographers. Personally, I’ve seen way too many New Yorkers walking along the streets.
ha ha ha ha ha Jim you made me laugh.
Hey Jim, good to have you back. Click on my name above this post – just for you. Then take a look at Katia’s work – long-term, sustained focus by her. I’m looking forward to seeing your work here Katia.
Joakim, nice photograph; I think that kathleen Fonseca fought our corner nicely with her “Street Photography..the thrill is on.” post. Thanks Kat.
“Like Winogrand, I take photos to see what things look like as photos’ You gave away quite a bit about yourself this time Jim. We all photograph – and look at other’s photographs, in order to understand. You sure know how to stir the pot Jim.
Rjsrm, welcome.
DAH, do you keep everything you shoot or do you hit delete?
Best wishes,
Mike.
I’m going to prepare a big street submission next week. I got my hands on a decent scanner with serious dmax so stand by for lots of STREET PHOTOGRAPHY. Maybe some will make it to burn but I’ll be putting a special site together anyway. Stand by!
street pictures can be absolute gems. Whether the subject matter is fresh, hackneyed or seen so many times as to be a cliche does not matter if The PICTURE stands up. I reject utterly the ‘gag’ argument relayed by ben [hey ben. Keeping busy I hope?]. A really good ‘gag’ is still a really good gag. And a bad ‘contemporary’ shot is still a pile of shit no matter how clever the ‘aesthetic’ device used is. Pictures are just that, pictures. They tend to stand or fall for me, based upon their merits as an image, not upon their subject matter, or the embracing or rejection of particular styles.
To say this is the sort of picture a beginner would take is a real insult to the photographer. It is not a great picture, but is is well seen and well made. Jim is right in that this type of picture is of more interest to other shooters in this style, and it is also ‘throwaway’ in the respect that; you look; you appreciate;you move on and forget. It is not an ‘icon’ in that respect. But it was probably never meant to be one either. This striving for the new ways of seeing that is prominent in a lot of young ‘mainly trained’ artists is great, but change for the sake of change is a bit narrow.
Again; I quite like the picture ‘for what it is’, but thats all.
John
You nailed it, John.
PAUL…
i never thought about it..seems dah works best…i usually call david bowen , david b.
HERVE…
just because i do not like looking at my own work does not mean that i am unhappy….i find joy everywhere all the time…you have been around me Herve…do i seem unhappy, morose??? i am simply not ecstatic when i look at my contact sheets!!!
but, i love love love the act of making photographs…the experience…..i get so “into it” i swear i get in another life zone of some sort….i have compared it to sex actually….for me, yes, it is like sex…..well, almost!!
cheers, david
Rafal,
You bring up an important point when you mention the street being landscapes. i tried separating my work once into two simple categories, “street” and “landshapes” (i.e. not street). I discovered there were many that were not one or the other but both. The street is a big ole pot of gumbo comprised of many elements. Hell, InPublic, a site i do not particularly care for even published the work of someone’s underwater photos. I think that’s stretching it a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit but it’s their site, they can do what they want. But unless i’m shooting deep in the damned bush and sometimes even then the street manifests itself in some way, my photos almost always contain some element of the street because the streets are our arteries, our communication with the rest of our community and the world. Where does the street stop and our private domain begin? the driveway? Just another street, i’m afraid.
Paul:
What a treasure you have 12 years of the street frozen in time..holy crow! ;;)). So glad to share the irresistible attraction, the obsession that is the street. It sooo gets into the blood and when it does, it refuses to set us free or let us be. At its best, the adrenalin, the sense of oneness with others, pure shooting serendipity, pure joy. For me, it’s the greatest photographic high. I have been brought to tears by the experience. At it’s worse, there can be solitude, alienation, fear, danger, an inability to process all that i see either photographically, intellectually or emotionally. And worse almost, times when i feel nothing for the street, dead inside. Times when i have to remove myself, rest, recover, regroup.
The ultimate street shooting experience, i can watch this video over and over and over. Jeff Marmelstein’s sensitivity, compassion, is captured here in this video. I am so, so transfixed by this one man talking, explaining, describing his experience…he’s completely humbled, he’s a tool, his is the voice that is required at that moment, on that day in history:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXdE9yU5IM0&feature=related
Where does photojournalism begin and street end, or where does photojournalism end and the street begin? In Jeff’s words, “I was shooting the street and the street was blown up”. He also says “I feel like I made some soulful pictures that day because I am a photographer”. It’s all complex to me and also very simple. i simply don’t care about these distinctions or where my photos will end up or whether i will make any money or even if anyone other than me ever sees them. The street and life and assorted stuff on it is just what i shoot. it’s just f’ing life.
Mike R, Joe..:))..thanks!
Jim, there is a valid point you bring up when you say the streets offer an opportunity to many to shoot impersonally, alas, that is true. But those same photographers couldn’t shoot a landscape or a macro or an abstract personally either. They have a camera, they do not have the soul. The street for me is not about pre-focusing my camera on a patch of light and waiting for some anonymous human to inadvertently walk through it as seems to be the current vogue. This manner of “street photography” which unfortunately also includes poster photos and other gag shots (sorry Joakim, yours is a fine photograph, i am not denigrating it!) can be seen ad nauseum all over the net. For me the street is 99.99% about the people. The last .9% might be a sign or a dog or something. People, people, people. The human condition. And about as far as impersonal as you can get. And i would say that because you are not passionate about this subject, on this one subject alone i can out-talk, out-discuss, out-argue you anytime. Because it is my life. So, best just give it up now, though some of what you say is all too true about some street photography.
best:
kat~
correction: about as far FROM impersonal as you can get
actually, Jim, i don’t expect you to go away quietly on this subject..nor would i ask you to..and i have really said all i have time to say about it..my point is merely that there is nothing you COULD say on the subject of street photography that would act as the slightest deterrent for me. Yours is merely an opinion, mine is a passion. And most of the folks i knew in Woodville didn’t give a rat’s ass for any ole New Yorker walking down the street. Goes with your territory, Jim ole boy. And not all street photographers shoot in NYC. haha..i mean, crap, is that a shallow observation, or what?
best
kat~
Jim. saul leiter. ‘early colour’ . just shots on the street…on outdated film….mainly forgotten for 50 years. No fanfare. No trumpet blowing. NO MONEY IN IT. But what pictures he made.
Tell me they were not worth the making.
Anybody…tell me they are just ‘gags’.
Convince me of that and i will never make another frame for myself. I will dedicate myself to the persual of money and career advancing situations.
To make work such as that, just for the sake of making work such as that, isnt that a worthwhile thing just in itself?
JOHN
I wish this picture was more successful for me, as I like a lot of what is going on in it. Part of it is that it seems a bit sloppy in “printing” (I use that term loosely because for most, including myself, it is now scanning or direct to digital). I would like to see it “worked” a bit more. Sometimes a good print can make all the difference in taking us out of the norm, taking us to a place we’ve never been before. But a so-so or bad (this isn’t bad by any means) print/scan drops us back to the merely 2 dimensional realm.
KATHLEEN,
I’m so glad you posted that Mermelstein video – must viewing for everyone.
Funny, I bet Jim wouldn’t see most “travel” photography (such as our very own DAH has built a career on) as street photography but what else is it? It’s just that most of us find it easier to photograph streets that aren’t our own – a brave few do though, such as Winogrand (who by the way, imo, knew very well what he was doing when photographing but possibly started losing it in the face of death – many of us do).
I think street photography is one of the most important movements ever in photography. It really did a lot in unburdening photography from the constraints put on it by commercial powers (the studio so to speak). It leaves a legacy we now see in fashion, travel, advertising, etc. Growing up, I was most influenced by the likes of Frank and Winogrand. Even though I don’t do street photography per se (except when traveling – guilty as charged!) I took a lot of what they did and applied it to my own work. The blurry flash technique I employed in my early music work I got from Winogrand’s stock show series. I just took it a bit more to the extreme. Use of wide angle’s and sense of composition as well.
Anyway, got to go (baby waking up!)
CP
this work is amazing. i love it. i looked on the site as well. paradise is wonderful. still looking…. great to see this on here. love the work. cant wait to see more…
As I get older, David, and thanks for your answer (you know I always write a to have people “play” their violin!..pizzcato, poke epoke poke…..), I’d say sex may sometimes, but not alwyas, be as good as photography. And I know what I am talking about, I just came back from what is arguably recognized as the sex capoital of the world. Absolutely no contest between the “clicks” and the….Bangs!
:-))))
i want to be david franklin bowen.. although people will laugh.
“Jim, there is a valid point you bring up when you say the streets offer an opportunity to many to shoot impersonally, alas, that is true. But those same photographers couldn’t shoot a landscape or a macro or an abstract personally either.”
Not True, I can shoot anything and everything and make great images, I just happened to fall in love with street photography before it was even called that…
Has Joakim expressed his opinion on street photography and this image here yet? I would love to know what he thinks…
joakim. Great work on your website. really enjoyed going through it.
DAVID,
Whyyy, don’t you like looking at your own works????
You don’t like your own photography???
If not, what photography you wanted to do????
if you have time please answer… I do not understand, I thought you are quite satisfy from your work or rather way of your life and effecting.
You have so many joy in your photos…
You don’t like looking at your photos????
Kathleen says: Because it is my life. So, best just give it up now, though some of what you say is all too true about some street photography.”
You are, of course, free to do what you like with your life. But nothing in dedication of your life to street photography compels me to like it.
I’m also curious why you continue to denigrate where I live. I’ve not always lived here. I chose to come here. Unless you are suggesting my choice of a place to live, a small town, means I’m dull and unsophisticated. Believe it or not, we have over 300 artists living in little Tyler County now, and a successful gallery that sells their work regularly. We were recently referred to in a regional magazine as, “The Newest Art Community In S.E. Texas.”
Jim:
¨You are, of course, free to do what you like with your life. But nothing in dedication of your life to street photography compels me to like it.¨
mmm..i don´t recall trying to persuade you.
you are far from dull and/or unsophisticated, regardless of your origins or address. Come to think of it, when i interviewd at the Woodville Booster or whatever the name of your weekly paper is, the then publisher was a transplanted New Yorker. Man, he reminds me of you. Just exactly the same attitude. But it isn´t you. He would be much older than you. Anyway, i know artists there..one in Warren to be exact and Frank Gerrietts from Port Arthur is one of my best friends. Matter of fact, even he reminds me of you..but he´s lovable. You? um…not so sure.
and please put your 22 back in your holster..i´m teasin´
kat-
Jim Powers..
you wrote “I don’t think Winogrand liked photos, I think he just liked the process of walking around pointing the camera and pressing the shutter (or was responding to some mental compulsion to do so). Otherwise he wouldn’t have left hundreds of thousands of exposures unexamined or even undeveloped (2,500 rolls).”
Actually, he deliberately waited in order to lose the memory of the making of the images.
“If I was in a good mood when I was shooting one day, then developed the film right away,” he told a class, “I might choose a picture because I remember how good I felt when I took it.” Better, he maintained to let the film “age,” the better to grade slides or contact sheets objectively.”
ERICA….
that can hardly explain 2,500 rolls undeveloped….
“…Actually, he deliberately waited in order to lose the memory of the making of the images…”
nope…
i have 40 rolls undeveloped from the year 2001…
reason????
A mixture of being Broke and Lazy…
… in order to lose memory…”
its funny how the “fan” in us try to explain things in a mythological out of this word way…
… deliberately…
oh please…
he was probably also LAZY & broke…
( not kiddin’..)
“and please put your 22 back in your holster..i´m teasin´”
.22? Only good for shootin’ empty Shiner cans. Desert Eagle or .44 magnum Super Redhawk here.
DAH,
Sure it could..he said he liked to wait a year or two, and 2,500 rolls works out to just over 3 rolls a day for 2 years. Didn’t he shoot pretty much all the time, going thru a lot of film? His wife said that being married to him was like being married to a lens…
Legend is he shot at least 3 rolls a day — every day. Over a thousand a year, and if you’re shooting that much, doesn’t leave much time for developing and printing… Being he was sick the last 2 years well, that adds up to almost that number.
I would rather shoot than edit any day, so it makes sense to me.
Erica, Winogrand was shooting constantly. When was he going to have 2,500 rolls developed? He just kept churning them out. There were also 6,500 rolls of film that had been developed but not contact-printed, not to mention 300 untouched, unedited 35mm contact sheets. And he just kept shooting.
When you think he was going to get around to giving those a look over?
We’re talking a quarter of a million exposures the guy hadn’t looked at!
Dunno, but it makes perfect sense to me a film based person who shoots quite often, but relatively small amounts of film, as I work constantly to keep up. If I shot as much as he did, I could easily find myself that backlogged.
Erica..
Speaking of hard work, it would be nice to see some of it..
Unless it’s a surprise..
I keep reading your comments about EPF this, EPF that..
But share some work with us..
It wouldn’t hurt, would it????
If you read my comment to dah under the street single, you’ll be updated as to where things stand.
ERICA…
yes, the math works on the film shot…assuming he processed nothing…but, doubt he would have forgotten the “time of shooting” in two years..would you forget the experience of something you shot two years ago?? doubt it…by the way, i cannot find a comment from you anywhere re: your project.. this is exactly what i do not like about 3-5 blog spots…
cheers, david
DAH..my mistake, it was under time/timing..here it is again
erica mcdonald
March 6, 2009 at 11:23 am
DAH / DAVID
(I prefer DAH but it isn’t short for David Alan Harvey in my mind, its more like the Irish usage of “Da”, an old-fashioned Irish nickname like “Papa”, father figure here..)
Anyway, I digress.
No, it isn’t that I have confused the burn piece with epf, it is that as soon as I finished the rough edit of the “assigned” part (the portraits) I realized I wanted to have a 35mm component as well, so I got to work on that. And, for the sake of time and organization I was hoping to get it all tied up in one fell swoop, so i could have something to present to you here and for epf. I really really wanted it to be a multimedia piece for burn, and that just isn’t coming together yet. Maybe what should happen now, DAH, if you have time next week and are still willing is to have you help with the burn edit (via photoshelter) and to show it as a still piece here? I can keep striving towards the mm aspect after that..
I am sorry it isn’t tidy and tied up..it would have been ready back in September/ October if I hadn’t added the 35mm or started getting audio and all that.
Let me know what you think is best.
About Winograd, here’s a whole quote..I guess gary himself thought a year or two was long enough to let some of the shine of the moment wear away:
“Technique once again: Winogrand almost never developed his film immediately. He said he deliberately waited a year or two in order to lose the memory of the take. “If I was in a good mood when I was shooting one day, then developed the film right away,” he told a class, “I might choose a picture because I remember how good I felt when I took it.” Better, he maintained to let the film “age,” the better to grade slides or contact sheets objectively.”
Erica,
I posts links ( with my photos ) every other day…
Does this makes me a “better” photographer than anyone here???????????
NOPE!
I talk s**t every other day…
Does that make me a “better” bullsh***r than anybody else in here??????????????
NOPE!
All i’m saying… is this : BURN is a photo magazine…
I’m not gonna spend the rest of my life talking about Koudelka or Gary W…
The reason actually we are talking about “them” is because of their HARD WORK posted, printed etc…
All those previous years we were ALL CRYING THAT WE ARE UNRECOGNIZED TALENTS..
THAT NOBODY PUBLISH US UNLESS WE BECOME “SOMEBODIES”…
and here, right here right now i demand to SEE WORK… GOOD OR BAD…
Talk is CHEAP…
( DONT ACT LIKE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT I’M SAYING….)
i DEMAND to see work….
because when that UGLY DAY comes that DAH pushes that EXIT BUTTON… then we will all gonna crawl back to our “holes”…
thats all im saying… HONOR “BURN”… ASAP…
even “right now” its too late…
how about “yesterday”… is the right time…
You are a great photographer…. but you act like you are “too good for us”…
Its just photography Erica…
We are not trying to discover the new anti-HIV medication….
Honor “BURN”….please
( thats why i sound mad… but honestly , i’m not…its just the way i talk…)
peace & hugs
this one for U & me Erica…
Panos
I get that you are trying to give me a push you think I need, but your reality of my experience or your experience of my reality just isn’t line with my own; and I push myself plenty. I’ve never cried “that I was unrecognized”, and I have no plans to find a “hole to crawl back into”,. Your demands are your own, and you don’t get to put any of those on me.. It may be “just photography”, but you know that any deeply committed individual has his own way of working. My delay has absolutely nothing with being too good for anyone or thing or about not honoring this place; if anything it is about not being good enough for myself..it’s not about you.
ok… agreed…
keep NOT POSTING photos…
& KEEP ON “TALKING”…
whatever serves photography best…
you decide…
Here’s a simpler way of saying it..if I had plans to make a big beautiful cake to the best of my ability and then share it with you, I most certainly wouldn’t give it to you when i knew it was half-cooked or even underdone. I might offer it to you a before it had cooled off properly, or before I put on the icing or the decorations, just for fun and to share and to see what you thought, and i would hope that you would enjoy it just as it was..but I would still work to fulfill my plan to share with you the finished cake, icing and all. And I would never think myself wrong for doing so.
… and ALL,in the meantime..
please lets keep on talking about Winogrand…till the end of the century…
its very, very, extremely important…
:-)
Last note, then back to it..I think you missed the point Panos, that I was asking for David’s help so that I could show work here..
…. ok,Erica sorry,
we posted at the same time…
I totally see now that for you, a finished project is important…
sorry for the “push”…
big hug
THE FALL ( A LOT OF WIND )
joakim – sorry..
panos..I just hope that after all this chatter on my part that the cake tastes alright..
Erica, :)
again,
i sooooooooooooo believe in you…
You just made me anticipate your “album” even more…
I’ve seen your large format work in C/Ville…
I’ve seen the way you play the fiddle (M8) in Brooklyn…
I have no doubt….
I have the highest expectations from you…
( i also needed to prove that there is no “club” here… otherwise i would be kissing your ass..)
Its just im starving for photos… for your work…
i was trying to “encourage/force” ALL of us to post links, photos….
because if its just for talk , talk and talk….we dont need BURN…
we can do that in the Magnum blog…
thats all.!
;-)
Jim,
what is your obsession with Winogrand anyway? Whatever you ay say about his undevelped films, is there a doubt he produced an amazing body of work? Are you saying that just because someone shoots a lot that somehow denigrades his work? Thats a curious and strange position to take.
Deeming his books a failure…based on what are you making this judgement? While he never really produced a ground breaking book, how many ground breaking books are there?
Another question, why do you use Winogrand as a sort of be all end all for street photography? Winogrand was just ONE guy. Street is no more Winogrand than it is HCB or Frank. Street has also evolved. Today’s street photography is about so much more. It is such a broad genre that it may no longer really exist as a genre. When you could count Power and Soth, Shore and Eggleston, Parr, Sobol etc as street photographers, it tells me that street has evolved, grown and expanded. I would call DAH a street photographer and infact have had some long discussions with david about street. He calls himself a street photographer. As I said before street can be anything from in your face flash a la Weegee to landscapes and objects, buildings…it can be people, or trees or cars. Street neednt be shot on the street, either. What a misnomer! You are letting your thinking be boxed in by a stupid and inaccurate label. Jim, I really think you need to expand your horizons. Winogrand has been dead for over 20 years. This is the euivalent of talking about painting in the context of the Reneissance. The great masters are long gone, in their place theres so much more.
“….The great masters are long gone, in their place theres so much more….”
I so need to AGREE.!
Rafal, as I’ve said numerous times, I don’t like street photography. I’ve looked at plenty of street photography – I’ve been doing the photography gig for a long time. I also do not like chocolate covered ants. Convince me that I should.
ERICA…
i think what you say makes sense….we are all just simply curious…you should be flattered that we are all waiting!! i leave for Spain on thursday i think…i will return to NYC saturday afternoon, so there may be some time to take a look at the work….
cheers, david
… thank you David..
this is exactly what i was really trying to stress !
Erica created such anticipation….
We are all waiting…
( and this one goes not only to Erica….)
I feel the same for Marcin, Cristna F… and some other really promising artists here…
thanks again!
…. i cant also wait for Rafal’s work, Katia’s, David B’s…
Wrobert’s, Lisa’s…. Lanceeeeeeeeeeeeee ,where you at??? and many more..
( i shouldnt actually mention any names at all because i can only forget people,
and that aint right…
and again, i just “used” Erica’s name as an example …as an inspiration…nothing personal…
Jared, Haik… Mike W ( thanks for the email this morning !!!!!!!!)
im waiting for their work …
i’m just wishing to see more spontaneous work…
Herve, David McG, Michael K….
( patricia sorry, i wont mention your name here, because you are the most “workaholic” …here,
even for my own standards…:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Jim,
I mean this with no malicious intent but talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You say you dont like street photography? Do you like David’s work? Guess what, David is a street photographer. Street photography is such a broad concept that saying you dont like street photography is saying you really dislike a large swath of photography.
Joakim
On your website, incredible 7th image in Paradise!