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Panos Skoulidas

Wandering in Greece

play this essay

 

…I lived half of my life in Grecolandia…& half in Los Angeles….

Half of my life i was dressed up in sheep-skin and half of my life in plastic…

Half of my life i was riding donkeys and half driving wild mustangs…

Half of my life i was staring mustaches and half staring at platinum blond highlights..

It wasn’t curiosity that brought me back…im not here anyways but i’m not there either…

Homer made it back to Penelope..Made it back to Ithaca…

but Homer was a lier in the end..He lied to please the king…

but Kavafis…ahhh Kavafis told the truth…Its all about the travel..not the destination…

it’s the doomed , the holy trip to that imaginary Ithaca…the El Dorado does not exist…

it’s the search for the El Dorado that counts…

When i left from the “sheep” city to find my “el dorado” i made it to the “plastic” city…

Half of my life i was believing in Homer…

Half of my life later i realized that there are no El Dorados..Its just a vast endless ocean ahead..

that leads nowhere but …but im not afraid anymore..i can accept it now..im not scared..

Things dont change..but we do..

Almost a month ago my boat decided to revisit…

Highway 61 Revisited as my good friend Bob Dylan said…

Above (essay) is what i saw..how i got connected with Grecolandia in the period of a month…

I’m riding a tired donkey once again…

I left my pirate ship back in venice beach to take a break…

Now im on the fast lane of that Grecolandia Highway 61 , speeding…on a slow donkey..

Reuniting, reconnecting with my family…

whats not to love?

Enjoy…because i dont know how long my “donkey” will last…

 

Bio

Panos Skoulidas bio,

or

the story of “Till Eulenspiegel”…

…According to the tradition, he was born in Grecolandia around 1300. He travelled through the Holy Roman Empire (Americanlandia , especially Northern US, but also the Low Countries, Bohemia, and Grecolandia. He is presented as a trickster or fool who played practical jokes on his contemporaries, exposing vices at every turn, greed and folly, hypocrisy and foolishness…With Eulenspiegel’s death occurs the entry of the embodied trickster-animus into the medium of things spiritual, the form of existence of pure spirituality so that the soul has seen through itself by way of its own spirituality and knows itself as living spiritual life: Eulenspiegel is still alive.The literal translation of the High German name “Eulenspiegel” gives “owl mirror”, two symbols that identify Till Eulenspiegel in crude popular woodcuts. However, the original Low German is believed to be ul’n Spegel, meaning “wipe the arse”.

 

Related links:

FOTOGRAFEVI agency

panajournal.blogspot.com

photofarts.blogspot.com

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4sXRxs_8qg

 

Editor’s note:

Comments are wide open on this essay.. Panos will surely jump in whenever he can..

Many thanks… david alan harvey

324 thoughts on “panos skoulidas – wandering in greece”

  2. bob black

    “‘Captain, shake off this trance, and think of home-if home indeed awaits us.'”-Homer, “The Odyssey”

    One thing that i have always loved about Panos work, whether it was Venice, or Dark Kids, or Road Trips or now Wandering in Greece is that every story told feels as if it were a journey, the distance may be far or wife but the journey is always about discovery, both sad and funny….and what i love best about this is that it is unmistably Panos: filled with humour and also a melancholic love for what is there, before each of us….the joy, above all, and the childlike laughter of the glorious and absurd chunks of what is around…this aint the greece of homer but it is the Greece of you and your family and the real Greece…and that always means the most to me….

    so, Zeus dropped a pigeon to bring your good luck and to wing us forward :))…i LOVE #14, those cars like the Aegean armies about to leave for Troy….the gorgeous 10, with the boy in the toilet, which in many ways is a brilliant self portrait :))…and complex and family-chimed history of that multiple frame reflection 7 and Hitchcock beaming over all of us, our own Vertigo…..the dogs asleep waiting Odysseus as the Suitors storm the ground….

    so much to dig here…and i have no time to write more, but something very simple:

    you have alighted upon a land lighted up by the absurd beauty of home….your home, your home inside, that over all those damn toils, made for something shining…not armour, not charriot, not spear….

    more word sin a couple of hours

    BIG HUGS BIG HUGS

    BOB

  6. panos skoulidas

    “‘Captain, shake off this trance, and think of home-if home indeed awaits us.’”-Homer, “The Odyssey”
    ————————-
    INDEED..bob…indeed

  7. wendy

    yes
    a
    journey…
    thru your eyes…
    gentle
    and
    softer..
    kitties
    and
    flash!!!!
    princess
    and
    layers….
    birds
    and
    morning light…..
    your visual diary…
    thanks for sharing….
    xo
    ***

    love the intimacy, especially 18…. looks like a still from a film….. wx

  10. eva

    That last pic.. that’s home.. how can you say ‘no’? You can leave, but will have to come back…

  11. audrey bardou

    Hi Panos and congratulations !

    Since the departure, I love your work, there is something special in your photos, as D’Agata, the photography is your personal diary and you are always honest and sincere… I like very much your present humor which I had not felt before, I love the pigeon, the dog and the police! I recognize your niece but where is Maria?!!

    Xo to all the family, audrey

  12. bob black

    P,.S.:

    the pictures i love best (other than the brilliantly funny Army-cars at the sea (14) and the portrait of Civi in the bathroom (9)) are the great great shadow beauty pictures:

    2: all the pain in the world conveyed in the shadow on the grandmother’s face: that is Penelope, isn’t it…

    7: time and place of things
    18:…chatter light…

    but again, it is impossible to see a panos essay whithou seeing the fully humour and celebration of light (u steel harvey’s flash in a bottle for 19??) :))))

    and hitchcock rules!…pigeons dining on dinner too :))

    raise high the roofbeam :))

    running
    b

  15. panos skoulidas

    yes..i admit…i shot a whole series of photos using whiskey glass in front of pop up flash..100% completely stolen Harvey technique..i do admit that…

  20. john gladdy

    Im really sorry Panos/All, but these are just not very good. If we are to be honest here, as honest as we are with the work of people we DONT know, then THE WORK must stand up to scrutiny all by itself. In my opinion this work fails to do that on almost every level. Sure there is an element of narrative going on, but it is more than offset by the lacklustre imagery and poor technical aspects of the work overall.
    Feel free to disagree, but know that this is not about panos, its purely my response to the work presented. Honesty is everything.
    Big hugs for what you have achieved panos but you can do way better than this.

    PEACE

    John

  23. john gladdy

    panos. Absolutely!! Earliest I can get away from london is end of may’ish..but I am seriously looking at a road trip across east europe into greece and turkey in a 4×4. You would be a more than welcome passenger for any part of that journey if it happens.
    John.

  26. Preston Merchant

    Sorry, Panos, but I have to agree with John Gladdy. For all your quirky bravado, unrestricted access, and free imagination (all of which are good things), these photos seem really lazy. There are some in which the elements are beginning to coalesce in an Alex Webb sort of way, like #4 (dogs and cops) and #16 (kid in back of truck), but I am quite certain that these are not the best photos of the those situations — what do the surrounding frames look like?

    I do like the narrative impulse and the “images a la sauvette” feeling about them, but the offhandedness here isn’t doing you any favors.

  28. panos skoulidas

    Preston..:)))
    u can try your own edit (view all those surrounding frames here)

    part1:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIFTIFS?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLn1qnSp-S2Iw#

    part2:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF18?authkey=Gv1sRgCP2vg7qtn8b78QE#

    part3:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif19?authkey=Gv1sRgCIfV_P2nrP63tgE#

    part4:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif22?authkey=Gv1sRgCMbF-de1k_XSgwE#

    part5:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF24?authkey=Gv1sRgCMz289bo06v3YA#

    part6:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqv_PDJl62KmgE#

    part7:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Tif23?authkey=Gv1sRgCNq46_yw3I2a-wE#

    part8:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF21?authkey=Gv1sRgCJLs4aez09SNQA#

    big hug

  37. bob black

    John G-Preston :))

    though i dont like every picture in this brief shot, i think it is unfair to call the work lazy…i think it is important when looking at a particular body of work, it is so important that we view the intention of the work/photographer as well as their voice/relationship to photogrpahy and their history…i do not approach Panos’ work in the same way i approach my own, i do not look at either of your work the same as i do at my wifes, instead it’s important to see work for it’s underlying voice…

    for me, here, there are some terrific images….i love the visual pun of the cars at sea (like a said, it reminds me of a Parr esque version of the Greek armies about to head off to Illium (troy)…

    an example: a Martin Parr photo pun on Mexico

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/in_pictures_mexico_by_martin_parr/img/8.jpg

    and i think the 2nd image is very strong, simply in photographic terms….and i think 11 is a classic Panos: a shot of ‘intrusion’ which is really about his own (our own) absurd protection and humour…

    is panos loose? ;)))….hell yea, but i think what works for me in the stronger pics is when he’s being himself and that looseness gets under my skin…

    but, i am very happy for you jumping in, cause a photographer has got to know that mostof what we do is crap, just as most of what we write…but among the dirt, gems come out…and for me, at least, that’s what i look for, gems :)))

    cheers guys
    bob

  39. marcin luczkowski

    Cool, another my favorite photographer!
    Nachtwey, Webbs, Bleasdale, Skoulidas, Parr,
    Next should be Towell, Salgado, Parke, Richards, Vink or Pellegrin…
    or Erwitt
    or Petersen
    or Harvey :)

    Panos, bravo!!!

  41. bob black

    and just a quick follow-up:

    John/Preston: i do think it is sooo important that each of us express exactly, good or ill, their reaction…as u both know, the photo world is MUCH MUCH meaner…and bad/weak photography will not win any magazine jobs or sell prints, ever….and i think too it is critical to be direct and honest to not only Panos but everyone who shows work, cause a good editor will be and bad editor wont even talk to you…but, i think this essay does showcase what Panos can do that is about his personality and the way he lives/shoots…and #2 is major access…that mom/daughter is not his family, but a mother in grief and he did handle that shot bravely and professionally…i challenged anyone to say #2 wouldnt be published in any good photo magazine….

    but i totally hope and expect this essay to cause a firestorm of reaction and im sure panos welcomes the criticism…it has been WAY WAY too tame around here….

    drinks on me…

    but gotta run now

    b

  42. bob black

    Panos/Preston:….damn, there are some sweet sweet gems in those 8 links…..agreed! :)))

  43. Preston Merchant

    Bob, I get what you are saying, but (and here you and I can indulge a little pedantry) not every clever resonance works. Panos’ cars on the shore might suggest the triremes of the ancient Athenian navy, but cars don’t put to sea. So the trope is inexact, and the allusion can’t redeem an unremarkable photo.

    I am greatly intrigued by (and I aspire to) photos that suggest historical resonance in contemporary situations. Salgado is the master of this — his migrating peasants are the Holy Family in their flight to Egypt. Pigeons are the descending Holy Spirit. Fishermen haul their nets like the disciples waiting to be called by Jesus. But for all the Biblical allusions, Salgado’s photos are not dependent on them. They succeed as images in their own right, without needing the buttressing of cultural history.

    So, yeah, I love the gesture toward history (and how can one photograph in Greece without alluding to it?), but the photos still have to sing even if one has not read The Iliad.

  44. panos skoulidas

    Bob..i agree…i do ask and need hard, hard ,harder criticism..
    John & Preston are two great gentlemen… polite too.. I hear what they say and i totally respect it…
    but firestorm of reaction…i do welcome it and encourage it..

    Marcin…come later from the office to give you your check…;)

    Preston…:)
    great point and conversation…the Edit part…of this work..of any work…
    the Edit….what the Edit should be? As many regulars here already know..i do trust DAH’s editing skills…
    Now did DAH edited according to what he liked? According to who i am? To what a magazine would like?
    One thing i can tell for sure..this edit finds me to agree %100…. The result is “me”…
    I also sent it to Nikos E..about an hour ago and he also agreed with the edit…He was actually even more excited than Marcin above…:)
    But that you would prefer another edit only makes me wanna go back to those links and look at them with a different “eye”…once again..
    thank u for the food for thought…I also believe that a final edit is never really that “final”..nor the end..
    big hug

  45. michael webster

    I think #19 could be a very good photo if the guy’s face on the left were cropped out. I would like #6 if the pigeon were not on the table. It lessens the visual impact of the two yellow things –fries? onions?– on the plate. And frankly, it’s a bit too cute for me, as are #8 and #1. Of course those are my opinions based on personal tastes. Though, again, I think #19 could be good according to more universal standards. Hands tell us so much.

    My first reaction is to agree with John Gladdy. I, too, don’t think that the individual photos stand up to scrutiny, certainly not by normal photojournalism standards. But given that David and Anton and apparently a whole helluva a lot of other people I respect, including Panos, think differently, I pause and want to re-evaluate — to find if the problem is me and not the photos. Or are meant as art and not photojournalism? That would bring up an entirely different set of issues.

    From what I’ve seen from his links here at burn, I like Panos’s work. I think the storytelling is the strongest element and the personality these little projects exude make them very enjoyable to watch. Although I often don’t like individual photos for technical reasons, I find they work well in the context of the essay. They are like the vivid little snapshots your mind fixes on during a crazy joyride. I like that style and I like that Panos has such a style.

    But again, as individual photos, I wonder. They break so many of the rules. I’m not necessarily against that, it just makes me look harder. And I like rule-breaking when it works. I do it all the time. But to be honest, if I just came across these photos out in the wild; if I didn’t know Panos, at least as an imaginary internet friend; if I didn’t know burn; I probably wouldn’t look at them all that hard. But hey, if editors like them and want to publish; and gallery owners want to sell them — well, those are the opinions that matter. I’m more than willing to consider that the problem is me.

  46. Bjarte Edvardsen

    Since we’re into honesty here: I have never understood the point of giving negative comments without presenting solutions (and I probably never will).

    I’ve noticed the vignetting in your earlier work as well Panos, and both there and here I think it’s too much and doesn’t appear naturally. Some of the pictures would be so much better for me it weren’t for the vignetting. But what you don’t score on the technical side weighs up for me when it comes to your personality in the pictures. It feels like I know you through what you have seen and not many have that ability.

    The duck at the dinner table… Priceless.

  47. bob black

    Preston :))…

    totally agree…and I ABSOLUTELY agree with the kill-ratio of good pics between this essay and all those beauties in the cavern of Panos’ 8 links…and shit, i love working up some pedantry, especially with you :)) (but over wine will better in the sping when we’re down, i hope! :) )…I agree that just because a photo has an historical (literary, photographic, visual, historical trope) it doesnt mean it’s a success…and im not sure if panos’ intent with cars was related to greece’s history, but i saw it like that and that pit of pun made me smile, just like the pigeon on the table….and there are a fare number of pics here (and in al those links) which dont register with me either….but, Preston, Cars actually do put to sea…for the act of putting to see (for travel, for trade, for war) is actually found now in cars and that juxtaposition of allusion and transformation is all there in the pic, for sure: we no longer ply the waters of war or trade with long-brow’d black-sail boats with oarsmen, but in small hunkered down cars and full-wing tilt’d planes…do we not?…but yet, a visual pun isnt enough for me as a photographer either, but that is MY predilection: i love the poetry and collision of photography, not it’s versimilitude (then again, i read Celan and not jackie collins ;)) )…but i dont approach Panos’ work the way i approach, say, Boltanski or Mann, but i approach it the way I approach Amis (the father)…make sense?….

    i think part of good photograph should allude (with both verve and acumen and subtlety) to history (of photography and of life) cause all photography is connected and can one photograph greece without it’s history ….and yes, the photos MUST sing….but singing comes in many forms, including the ineluctable rhyme of laughter….

    sing forth said the gods, not with tears, but with howl’d laughter ;)))

    but, im sure both of us wish a cut at the longer edit :)))

    ok, gotta fly, absolutely….waiting for a chat over wine :))))

    and I agree: john G rules!

    b

  48. Reimar

    Panos,
    good to see your images on burn again. Boy, it is already getting hot again ;-)
    I am way too tired for a decent comment, but as mentioned above the duck at the dinner table is priceless indeed!
    Hope to catch up with you some time. Spring is coming so get your butt up north!
    Tomorrow will be again an early start for me so I say good night!
    Big hug!
    Reimar

  50. Gordon Lafleur

    Panos, congratulations again. You’re certainly on a roll. Careful you don’t peak early and crash and Burn!:)))

    I was so delighted to see this here, and I mean a delight. I’m not sure what to make of the edit, but I love some of the images. #7, the restaurant scene is absolutely brilliant. It’s tender, funny, and whimsical. The composition is anything but “clean”, yet it is so rich in its’ chaos. The last shot, the portrait is also very beautiful but in a completely different way.

    I’m never quite sure if you are a visionary genius, or just a maniac with a camera, stumbling through life, firing off pictures at random. It always feels like a little of both when I view your stuff.

    It would be fascinating to see someone elses edit of your take. I too see many gems in your links, but am sure my choices would reflect my own vision and not yours. Still, young Mr. Harvey is so right when he suggests editing may be the hardest part of what we do. I am frequently very surprised at the choices others make when viewing my work.

    Anyway, bravo

  52. panos skoulidas

    I’ve noticed the vignetting in your earlier work as well Panos, and both there and here I think it’s too much and doesn’t appear naturally. Some of the pictures would be so much better for me it weren’t for the vignetting.
    —————————–

    Bjarte..:)
    Altough only the no2 photo has a strong V. here..
    i do admit it…there is something like a tunnel-like feeling that i get out of a dark cornered photos..
    Although we spend money buy corrected lenses etc…the V feeling always has a great appeal to me…maybe because all of my life i have been in an imaginary tunnel ..never life had clear corners for me..Suffocating feeling..a “no way out” feeling followed me in most of my life…even now…
    Technically its “wrong” i know…but most of my life is also “wrong”..thats why i subconsciously/consciously im so drowned and mesmerized by this dark cornered feeling and look..
    thank you..:)

  53. audrey bardou

    I like the total freedom in the Panos’s photography. He has no rule, the technique is not present sometimes, and then ? it is not important for me, these photos are very intense and I like it. I would like to be also free…

  54. panos skoulidas

    Careful you don’t peak early and crash and Burn!:)))
    —————————————————–

    ahhh Gordon..:) im too “old” to peak early..

    I am frequently very surprised at the choices others make when viewing my work.
    ——————————————————————————–

    Gordon.. words of wisdom..but in this case im not surprised…it looks that DAH knows me well..
    or should i say better than i know my own self…. laughing

  55. Lee Guthrie

    Panos,

    You make me very happy. I am still smiling.

    On first viewing I was walking with you on the streets, sitting next to you on the bus, and drinking beer downtown with you. I did not question any of the shots; after reading the comments I went back and looked at the photos from an “objective” eye, one that did not know you.

    I asked, why did he hold up a photo of Hitchcock for a shot in this instance? Did he awaken from a rough night out early in the morning and shoot the first thing he saw, a kitten? Wow, doves all over the world have no problem landing in your food at open air eateries. Is that a gun that woman is holding in the shot of the young boys in the truck passing by? How rude and almost illegal to take a photo of a young boy who has obviously had an accident and must be already embarrassed to death and now here is this rude man taking his photo!

    But I did not see any of those shots objectively even after reading the comments and looking with an objective eye because I cannot be objective about Panos. Panos is an experience in himself and these are the trips of his days. I would totally buy his work. His work speaks Panos. Panos speaks his work.

    What’s not to love?

  57. Patricia Lay-Dorsey

    Sure works for me. I see Panos’ eye, quirky and scattered as it is, in every image. Panos is his own genre. I look at his work and feel his high energy, his wonderful irreverence, his eye for the ludicrous, his tongue-in-cheek sense of humor, his all-over-the-placeness (just made up the word!). In this work I see a more intentionally multi-layered visual approach that gives my eye lots of room to range and discover hidden surprises. The mix of blur and sharp gives a dynamic tension that keeps me guessing. And I like to be kept guessing.

    Panos, if I were to offer constructive criticism it would be that it’s time for you to begin to hone your own editing skills rather than depending on DAH to do it for you. When one takes a ton of photos like you and I do, there will always be some great ones…and a fair share of crap. But if you developed your own editor’s eye I think we’d see a more accurate reflection of what YOU see and find meaningful. As it is, edits like this — much as I like them — show DAH’s eye as much as your’s.

    I can say this because I’ve been doing my damnest to try to edit my own work this time around. When I submit my new project to Burn, I’d like to have it down to a reasonable number of images. I know DAH could do a really strong edit if I gave him the 112 images I’ve currently pared it down to. But if I did that, how would I learn to distiguish between the gems and the merely OK in my own work? And that is what I want to learn. I’m finding that TAKING the photos is the easy/fun part; while editing takes an educated eye and equal doses of sensitivity and objectivity. It is a humbling process.

    In conclusion, Panos, I really LOVE your work and am so grateful to be riding in the sidecar as you journey across the world. In my book, you are the REAL DEAL!!!

    Patricia

  58. vivek

    this essay is fun to watch ……. every image more whacky than the previous ……. heartiest congratulations ….. seriously what not to love ….

  59. eva

    Patricia:

    “I know DAH could do a really strong edit if I gave him the 112 images I’ve currently pared it down to. But if I did that, how would I learn to distiguish between the gems and the merely OK in my own work?”

    Exactly by giving DAH to edit the 112 images and comparing HIS edit with what would have been YOUR edit, and then studying the whole lot, not by asking why, but by trying to find the answer by your own. Or am I completely off track?

  60. Frostfrog

    No offense, John Gladdy, but, magnificent artist though you be, I think perhaps you are looking inside your own head and not at the pictures on this one. I loved every bit of it – the freewheeling sense of it, the stories, true or false, that each image seemed to tell me.

    Number 9, of course, was a work of absolute and sheer brilliance. But when the subject is a cat, absolute and sheer brilliance is to be expected, whether the photographer is any good or not, because that is the nature of cats.

    I’ve got a busy day ahead of me and I have already looked at this three times – I think I will go back and look at it a fourth.

  61. emcd

    “But when the subject is a cat, absolute and sheer brilliance is to be expected, whether the photographer is any good or not, because that is the nature of cats.”

    here here!

    cats in photographs are perfect, or is it purrfect? in any case, I love that cat photo.

  62. john gladdy

    hey Bill.
    you could be right.’ My head is my only house when it rains’- as mr van vliet once said ….and it rains a lot around here :)
    I do get the idea of looseness in this set though and I have viewed it a whole bunch of times trying to figure out the edit…but it still just looks …..clumsy, and too many non pictures and bad exposures. Sorry.
    BTW been looking at gift of the whale for the last couple of days, now thats magnificent.

    john

  63. Patricia Lay-Dorsey

    EVA

    That’s a good suggestion and maybe I’ll end up doing that in the final analysis. I just know myself well enough to know that if DAH does an edit for me I lose total confidence in my own eye. His eye seems so much better than mine. At least I’d like to try editing it myself to start.

    Patricia

  65. carlos filipe

    congratulations, Panos
    i really like… and also like others from the off-off-edit.
    but where are you now? just reading our comments and writing replies or taking photos on the streets? or the strikes have prevent your much deserved party?
    i’ve heard portuguese ambassador on the radio a couple hours ago, saying that there are confrontations between police and people and that he could hardly breathe because of tear gas… please, follow the situation closely. sadly, it could be useful for me… before long (if you know what i mean…)
    um forte abraço,
    Carlos Filipe

  66. panos skoulidas

    But I did not see any of those shots objectively even after reading the comments and looking with an objective eye because I cannot be objective about Panos.
    ————————————————————–

    Lee…You are so sensitive … you allow yourself to feel…. f**k the brain… f**k objectivity…
    yes allow yourself to still feel…
    thank you for that..
    humbled…

  67. panos skoulidas

    Carlos F..
    yes it was a mess in athens this morning…
    tear gas , tear gas, tear gas and more tear gas..
    quiet now….
    you see… i should have been in the streets.. but my heart is full of gratitude today..few good friends keep “bugging” me with emails… im reuniting with my beloved friends that i havent seen for quite a while, through facebook..emails and skype… my heart belongs to the heart today.. not to the streets.. im not resting though.. my keybord is on fire… Tonight i re-confirmed that i do have some really precious friends that they havent forgotten about me… and definitely i havent forgotten about them…
    1:07am in the morning here… im gonna sleep very well tonight..
    once again i owe this to my beloved maestro David Alan Harvey…He offered me a night like this… i need to offer something back…
    thank you too CARLOS for giving me the chance to say all that… i need to go to bed…im overwhelmed..
    but i can’t…thank god we have music
    peace

  68. panos skoulidas

    every image more whacky than the previous
    —————————————–
    brilliant vivek….. ha ha..whacky…

    editing takes an educated eye and equal doses of sensitivity and objectivity. It is a humbling process.
    ——————————————————————————————————–

    Patricia..indeed ..it is a humbling process..:)

  72. Anthony R.Z.

    I have to admit, I have a lack of perception… OK, I guess, I understand the author, but… Still think, the picture nb. 8 is a killer, and it represents the whole concept…:)))

  73. Jonathan VDK

    quite amazed by the sloppiness of this piece. photographically, its all over the shop. i does have an element of narrative to it, but the execution is poor.
    the cars by the shore-front and the train station shot are evidence of this.
    looks like its was mostly shot with a cheap digital point and shoot.

  74. Jason_Houge

    Panos! Interesting! I sense this piece is very impressionist.
    I get the feeling that life is haphazard for you and that identity is something you’ve had to work to figure out. I also get the feeling from this work that perhaps Greece is also in transition not sure where their place is anymore. Rich in deep history and culture. but the youth is heavily influenced by western culture and movements. Life seems to be too busy for many to care anymore about it one way or the other… and so the insecurity continues.

    These are just the impressions I’ve gotten from the work. I could be totally off!

    Panos – WTF is going on in 10!? Why??

    Anton or DAH, number 11 seems to be corrupted. I think it’s an issue on the server side. the image is cut in half – the bottom just grey digital blocks. I will try again after clearing the cache on my computer…

  76. michael webster

    Not sure exactly how to talk about this. When I commented earlier, either I wasn’t aware, or it hadn’t sunk in that you, Panos hadn’t done the edit. I saw the links but didn’t have time to go through them. I also found, now that I’m home, that it looks much different in full screen on a decent sized calibrated monitor.

    I was curious why you made the editing choices you did. It wasn’t what I would have guessed from looking at your recent slideshows. After following the links I am even more curious why David made the choices he did. Trying to figure it out is interesting.

    On a related note, and please correct me if I’m off base on this, I gather that the general, if not professional consensus is that a photo essay should never be more than 30 images, and that 30 is pushing it. Better to keep it around 20. Is that accurate? Or have I just not been paying attention long enough?

    Personally, I wouldn’t have a problem with longer essays. Stories come in different lengths. They progress at different paces. Sometimes repetition works. Why not have 50 images if the artist says that’s how many it takes? What does fifty images add up to? A little over four minutes at 5 seconds a pop. I can’t muster a four minute attention span to look at photos? I spend more than four minutes a day looking at advertising. It’s nearly impossible not to. So no one can make four minutes of compelling still photography? Or ten?

    No disrespect to you David; your edit is intriguing and I enjoy it. I see themes, both narrative and visual and like the way they are woven together. But still, I would be interested in seeing how Panos would edit it differently. How many images would his edit have? I’d bet a lot. It would be a much longer story. Of course I couldn’t say if that would work or not without seeing it, but I suspect it could. There are plenty of stories in those links.

  77. Jason_Houge

    Michael – a good portfolio is 15 – 30 images. But think about an essay – it can really be as long as it needs to be to say what it needs to say. I think an Essay on Burn or anywhere online is best received if its kept to a decent number (20’s 30’s), but in a book, gallery, It depends on the space and the artist.
    But, at some end, a work that is so massive may never be publishable in it’s entirety – I think of W. Eugene Smith’s work with Pittsburgh, when I say that…

    DAH, Panos sorry for the multiple posts!!!

  78. Jamie Maxtone-Graham

    On the whole I enjoyed the images and the loose style and the intimacy of the photographer – who I see is a ‘regular’ on the site and seemingly well known and liked – with the people in front of the lens and the land itself. There are some beautifully layered images, literally and figuratively; number 7 resonates with me in particular.

    But on the whole this essay and the accompanying writing together feel a little like an inside joke which, if you dont know Panos the way many here obviously seem to, one is left a little outside. I’m willing to be wrong about this but that is the way it is sitting with me.

  79. mtomalty

    When you don’t know what to say :>))

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM&feature=player_embedded

    Hey Panos,

    Like the direction you’re heading and the ‘free’ style but feel it needs some sort of focus
    to get to the next level.
    Your loose, accessible style works, to a point, but while I’m entertained as I’m going through
    this edit, or any of the alternates you provided, I find myself not being able to recall
    any specific images after the moment has past.
    Don’t know if it is a graphic thing or a content thing but will think more on it and
    see if I can’t offer something a little more constructive

  80. eva

    Patricia:

    Definitely do your own edit first, only then ask, if needed, for help, but giving access to the whole lot you’ve edited from..

    I’ve done that recently, and it was interesting. I could understand the edit I got back from a good friend of mine, who knows me, both personally and photographically, and whom I trust (doesn’t mean we always agree, not at all), but his edit did not coincide with what I want to tell. So now I sit here, knowing my theme and subject and story very well, perhaps too well, and figuring out how I can bring exactly that across, visually, what more is needed.. luckily I have no pressure timewise and will be able to go back and take more pictures. That’s not always an option, but comes in very handy in long term projects :)

    Trust in yourself, trust in the editor, knowledge .. and the ability to let go, you of the editor, and the editor of you, that’s, to me, important in this whole game!

  81. jenny lynn walker

    Looking at your essay Panos, a personal story came to mind of a workshop I did long ago with David Alan Harvey and Kent Kobersteen. We students had to choose a theme for 5 days shooting and I wasn’t set on anything in particular when the nightmare moment arrived: to announce the topic we’d chosen. I didn’t have one. I think it was with his tongue-in-cheek when David chose one for me: ‘Freedom and Confinement’ and looking at this essay, I think you’ve done a good job on that topic – perhaps even without even realising it?!

    An essay with as many different species in it that inhabit the same space as us gets a big thumbs up from me! Thanks for the cat, dog and bird shots – our species is dominating so much on this planet to the detriment of us all!

    The one image that really had me laughing out loud the more i looked at it is the one of the dog chewing some scrumptious morsel (??) on a wide open street with the police huddled up together in anti-riot gear behind it! It expresses two entirely different worlds operating at the same time and I know which one I’d rather be living in!

    A final thought: every moment is unique and as photographers we are in ‘a personal dialogue with it’ (feeling it and responding to it) when we photograph. We are compelled by various restraints and story telling norms to make something out of the moments – to edit them down/make a story/make a point – but I think perhaps there needs to be another way of expressing ‘a love of each and every moment?!!!’

  82. panos skoulidas

    sorry for the multiple posts!!
    ———————————–

    no worries Jason… this essay is open to multiple comments…good morning y’all… waking up..
    Mark amazing song..;)

  85. Bjarte Edvardsen

    Panos

    “maybe because all of my life i have been in an imaginary tunnel ..”

    Seems obvious to me that there should be a picture of a tunnel or taken inside a tunnel in your essay. The vignetting didn’t make me think of a tunnel when looking at them, you had to say it to make me realise it.

    Sorry if I’m being too analytical, but I just want you to keep pushing this forward (who knows how far you can go!)

  86. panos skoulidas

    Bjarte..:)
    i was Not trying to communicate that tunnel feeling:(maybe because all of my life i have been in an imaginary tunnel) though..
    i was just trying to explain to you why i like the dark corners…
    not being sarcastic at all..i know the web may “read” sarcastic at times or “pun intended” but no “tongue on cheek” here.. The dark corners is also what i like from Pellegrins work…not only..but mainly…
    I also agree with Paolo that i prefer photos with open interpretation…”open”..not “closed”….
    I loved the question for example:”what does the photo no10 means/suggests???” that question made my day..
    or when Lee asked:”is this a gun on that old lady’s hands?”
    thats what i liked the most..the “open source” kind of software…
    But again…except photo no2 from the two “illegal” (what an ugly way to describe human beings)women from Georgia…i dont think i over did it with vignettes..hmm did I?

  87. panos skoulidas

    the cars by the shore-front and the train station shot are evidence of this.
    looks like its was mostly shot with a cheap digital point and shoot
    ——————————————————————————
    Jonathan..:)
    i dont like it when i have to advertise cameras or doing a tech talk..
    but only the no10(mom & boy) , no13(bar portrait) & no19(bar/flash/hands)are shot with a Nikon camera..
    the rest 17 photos is Leica with Carl Zeiss 28mm T lens…
    but what if it was shot with a point and shoot? or cellphone? I dont really understand your comment..not offended but i cant really get it..Half of Pellegrin’s and Majoli’s work is shot with a cheap point and shoot..

  88. Jonathanjk

    I certainly feel like wandering when I look at these images. It isn’t a compliment, I’m wondering what is happening. There is no narrative or any real sense of photographic achievement present. The images are of poor quality, really annoying vignetting, terrible composition and it looks like a collection of images scooped up from flickr by various photographers all with the tag, “greece”.

  90. panos skoulidas

    Imants.. i know…laughing..

    Jonathanjk…please try Steve Mc Curry…you’ll be thrilled…although allow me to take your comment: ” ..I’m wondering what is happening..” as a compliment..;))

  92. michael webster

    Who has time? Indeed.

    As a professional I respect that which has been carved in stone, enshrined and handed down through the ages. My portfolio is 15 to 30 images and I would never submit an essay of more than 20 images to a publication that didn’t like essays with more than 20 images. But out here in the weeds, talking subversively among friends, I’m saying that received wisdom is constipated. Particularly in Panos’s case. And Gene Smith’s too. I’ve seen the Pittsburgh photos. Would you really limit those to 20 images? It doesn’t work as 20 images. You may recall that Smith fought the law over that very question. The law won, of course, but Smith was right.

    I’m thinking of the photo essay as a storytelling vehicle similar to literature but better suited to the digital age. There are short stories, short short stories, novellas, novels and weighty tomes, all of which are recognized as valid forms. Sure, you wouldn’t want to needlessly add words to make a short story a weighty tome but you wouldn’t tell Joyce to clean up Ulysses and cut 200,000 words (well, you might, but the point remains) either. And the photo essay these days has other options. We can speed up or slow down the presentation. I saw one an essay on Turkey the other day that must have had a thousand photos. They flashed by about 2 per second and were syncopated with some Sufi drum music. It worked. I’m not saying that Panos’s essay should have 1000 images (seriously, I’m not), but I think it could convey his experiences wandering around Greece a bit better with a few more.

    Regarding Jamie Maxtone-Graham’s feeling that there’s an inside joke involved, I’ve often wondered that as well. Going back to literature, it’s long been recognized that words, sentences, and stories contain series of propositions which may or may not be expressed literally by the words themselves. Deeper meanings, as they say. Same thing for photographs and photo essays. So I ask myself, to take just one example, what are the propositions underlying a picture of an out-of-focus kitten centered in the frame? Kittens are cute? Fuck the rules? Revel in layer upon layer of irony? A funny example of Panos’s out-of-focus-subject-in-the-foreground style? I don’t know, but am curious.

  93. eva

    .. about the inside joke thing.. it seems to me that often photography is taken to literally, one reads the title, here we have Greece, and expects pics of Greece.. and instead gets a FEEL of Greece, not a merely visual journey with a Greek lable.. photography is as much about feelings and mood (or even more so) than about colourpalette and straight information.. or so..

  94. david_bacher

    I agree with Audrey regarding Panos’ total freedom in his photos. This is a good thing, but I still think there are some rules that can push that way of being at ease when taking pics. Perhaps it’s the Henri Cartier Bresson rules of composition. Like Jenny, I like that photo of the dog with the cops behind, however, cutting off the dog’s nose just seems like a lack of attention on the part of the photographer. 16 is quite nice, but then again you could have just lowered the camera a little more to get a bit more detail of the guy driving the car and cut out that annoying wasted space on top. These are the more difficult kinds of shots to get where you’re dealing with multiple layers, things moving, shadows, and different expressions on people’s faces. It’s great that you’re going after those kinds of shots, because most people don’t, and it does require one to be totally chilled and dance with the camera. Perhaps just a little more awareness of composition and knowing when to snap. These are things I’m working on with my own photos.

    On the other hand, I like the more simple photos like the bird on the table or the last one of the little girl. Her direct glance into the lens is wonderful. To me these are your strongest images.

    In any case Panos, it’s great that you’re on Burn and it has been a pleasure reading your comments over the last couple years. You must be a character (in a good way) :-) If you ever stop by Paris en route to Greece feel free to let me know. We can grab a drink.

  96. Justin Smith

    All of this discussion regarding the edit of Panos’s essay, got me to thinking (with inspiration from Bjarte’s Which-One blog): What if we had an occasional “Edit War” on Burn or another site? Take the same pool of photos, then show the essay as arranged by 2 different editors – unveiled at the same time.

    Panos has been generous (and courageous) with showing his Grecolandia photos all along; many of us have viewed them and probably wonder why some of our favorites didn’t make the cut. I ran this idea past him (via e-mail) and he thinks that it is a good idea, but as he wrote: “couple things ..very few people have the editing skills…but on the other side… different “worlds”/”views”/”schools of thought” will definitely appear..” He has volunteered to submit for the first experiment.

    What do you guys think?

  97. panos skoulidas

    Justin..:)
    Thank u… u very well explained above the (your) idea above..
    I agreed in the email that i can volunteer to be the first experiment…
    y’all have my 8 links…every photo is numbered (with captions) ..blah blah…
    If anyone thinks has a good idea..not necessarily competing with DAH or anything like that..
    just to see different views ..different brains etc..please proceed..That will be
    helpful for me 2..not only because im locked & “sold” in the above edit…but
    that will help us discover new editors.. so be my guest…

  98. bob black

    It is always interesting and intriguing why so so many photographers have a need (more than any other art form i know) to rely upon, genuflect or lazily discern other’s work by a lapidary need for rules. When one begins with the understanding that photography begins with a certain prescribed rule-addicted box (an engineered piece of equipment that dictates what occurs by mathematical and optical rules) which has absolutely nothing at all to do with the reality of life and time but is merely a maker/manufacturer of ghost-approximations of reality, that it seems to me that it not only behooves photographers but necessitates photographers to break the boundaries and shackles of that small, hand-held/shoulder-carried box: let alone what one does with it.

    one of the great, interesting unknown/less known photographers working…his early books are brilliant…

    take a look here: since when should interesting work be defined by a linear 20-30 pic??

    http://awp.diaart.org/ruppersberg/

    The idea that an essay (online or elsewhere) should confirm or concern itself with a perfect and tidy conception of what constitutes an essay is not only absurd but disappointing. Yes, most people now have the attention span of a 6 year old and my own attention span is diminishing too the more time i spent darting around the web looking/reading: it’s indemnic. However, there are photographers who do not prescribe to the rule that an online essay should be 20-30 pictures. I’ve seen essay’s of 2 pictures and i’ve seen online presentations of 100 pic. It’s more about you, you the viewer: what is your tolerance for images. I, frankly, can sit through a long presentation of images if it captures and challenges me. shit, for Burn, i published an essay that i think was 60 pictures. I’ve also did a solo exhibition with 100 photos in a small box and a family exhibition where Marina, Dima and I each showed only 3 pictures. Coming up, i’ll have an essay published elsewhere that has about 40-50 (still editing) pics and yea, maybe most people wont slog through it. but when, more now than ever, did photographers grow so damn still about things, about what they need/want from another photographer: it’s maddening….

    Shit, i would have watched a 70-picture edit, and i went through all 8 links of Panos’ work yesterday. Then again, for whatever reason, i tend to get jonzed by all sorts of pictures, ’cause it’s like going through a bookstore: the same simple joy and pleasure; of course, i wont read/buy everything in that store, but even shitty beach-town beach-reading stories give me pleasure: go figure ;))))….

    The issue of ‘poor’ quality, again, simply stuns me. It is true that that beloved car/sea picture doesn’t have the same lighting/shadow/depth-of-field effect as some of the ‘stronger’ pictures, but it still makes me smile alot: who knows, maybe it’s the homer thing still resonating with me, but when i first saw it i was like: that’s ancient/modern greece ;)))…..

    The thing i sense that many have overlooked (and certainly overlook elsewhere) is that ultimately a photographic story comes from the place of specific person: their vision, their story, their lacks and accesses. How many times (most of the time, it seems to me) to we get a factory press of repetion: the same themes, the same ‘pretty’ pictures, the same damn cameras and scarfs and workshops and schools and aspirations, the same damn awards and same parties and same festivals: it, frankly, depresses the shit out of me. With camera’s now, at least good digital cameras, it does not take alot of work to make a pretty picture, let alone a photogrpahically accurate and strong one. And yet, it seems (look at any gallery and magazine and festival) the sameness (even in variety) of stuff is just exhausting. Given that, to me, all that matters is the voice, is for me does it reflect something of the photographer’s state and relationship to place and story telling. Again, i derive different pleasure from different bodies of work and different photogrpahers. What i enjoyed about Panos’ essay (and in many many of those gems in the 8 links) is panos combination of 2 things:

    1) his fearlessness to look and reflect the absurd, the humour and collision of the absurd (we) life around us

    and

    2) the lyricism/poetry of that life. In truth, Panos is a sentimentalist. Actually, aren’t we all sentimentalist, if we weren’t, i imagine we would never give a fuck to pick up a camera and bestill the moment to begin with, let alone spend all this time snapping and editing and looking and printing and framing and writing, etc. we’d just move on. but what i love about Panos is that within the absurd, he still has a very large heart and eye for ridiculously simple and love-felt moments: that cat. that cat pic rocks because, in reality, that’s the kid saying “damn, mom, i love this cat and look at me im shooting it’ and his damn beautiful face is so beautiful. and that’s the same poetry that lingers in the hitchock: the poetry of the dark laugh. To me the greek work shows this, in ways it came up from time to time in Venice and in Dark Kids work….rather than making fun of things, panos camera/eye really loves them and it seems at times that is an totally and unconditionally loving eye: pigeon/duck on table, cars by the sea, a grief-filled mother with daughter, his niece, sleeping dog, boat, empty house, bar light, whatever….i actually thing this story and all panos work is the lyricism of the heart…not Street PHotogrpahy, not Journalism, not Magnum-cool, LA-glitz….but really, a simple celebration of what it is he loves and that’s the world around….

    and for me, i dont care what camera is used. I see a shit load of Leica stuff that looks like crap and i see lots of throw away camera stuff that melts my heart…..i use all those too, expensive 35mm, old lomo and holga, disposable cameras, whatever …..

    there is only one rule, for not only picture taking but picture viewing: does it work for you…..

    if panos’ work doesnt work, for you, no worries…but, i have the Venice book and u know, i love it….and there’s all kinds of shit in there :)))))….

    lyricism ….and Lee’s right on target…

    Justin: :))

    we did once have an edit war here (joe did a re-edit of Michael Hassoun’s story on Israeli reservists…..because he didnt like David’s edit…and well….that entire long battle (i guess between me and joe) is there in the archives….it is true that being a good photographer and a good editor are totally different principles…skill sets….i always edit myself, though i occasionally will ask for help (i’ll ask marina what she thinks), and try to do this because it is so important that photogaphers learn to understand how to say what it is they want to say…this comes from learning the value of juxtaposition and narrative, not just stringing pictures together….i loved helping others edit their work, but my edits tend to be based on my own prejudices and ways of seeing narrative and conceptual principles of story telling…that’s why i am not an editor as a job, though i have spent alot of time doing that for projects and for others….the problem with an Edit War here is that, i think, it would end in the same results: each person see’s a story through their own particular vision and narrative sensibility…..when I gave David/Burn ‘Bones’, i’d made 4 different edits (one 15 pictures, for an exhibition down south, one of 100 pictures for a story i was working one, two for Burn, one of 60 pictures and one of 45 pictures): 4 different edits, 4 different ideas from the same 2 weeks of shooting, from the same basic story….a good editor is a blessing….and i think probably the Burn editing process ultimately speaks more about the photographer than David, because David gives the final say, always, to the photographer….i do think this edit is about Panos and what Panos likes and wanted to say….and that is, in the end, the edit i want to always see, stronger or weaker, not that important to me :)))

    on, on rule breaking, have a look:

    hugs
    bob

  99. Paul Treacy

    Was in American embassy all morning yesterday. Because of security I left my camera at home. Had to do some shopping afterwards and it was a NIGHTMARE. It’s the first time since adulthood that I’ve been out without a camera. Damn painful. Fucking hated it. And, of course, I saw pictures all over the place.

    I took LOADS of pictures in my head. But they’re not fucking good in my head.

    I’m going to retrace my steps on Monday to correct the imbalance I’m feeling. Minus the embassy bit, of course.

  100. bob black

    OH, BIG BIG TYPO CORRECTION;

    FOR “shitty beach-town beach-reading stories give me pleasure: go figure”

    I MEANT “shitty beachtown beach-reading bookstores give me pleasure: go figure ;))))….” (emphasis of ‘shitty’ on neither beach town (there are NO shitty beachtowns in my book) nor bookstore but on the beach-reading books (and i say that with a wink/knod not with a disdain for beach novels (my closet is full of them)

    sorry, i just woke up and my brain is un-caffienated…:)))

    continue ur discussion :))

  102. Imants

    Geez Paul I hope there is more to your life than being attached to a dumb box…………

    What if we had an occasional “Edit War” on Burn or another site? Take the same pool of photos, then show the essay as arranged by 2 different editors – unveiled at the same time. …Ford vs GMH vs Toyota bullshit

  105. Imants

    Toyota makes money………. GMH takes money……….. perhaps a Toyota edit will lead to a m9 for all the wanna be’s. look at me look at me!!

  106. Thodoris Tzalavras

    With souls burning under the moonlight
    Let’s dance naked ’round and howl
    Claim mediocrity as greatness
    Loudmouthness as wisdom
    And let’s invent new languages
    To use without a reason…

    Thodoris

  107. Imants

    To appreciate the best of what Photographers like Eggleston, Panos, Bob Black, Ballen produce …………… their photographs are best viewed as a body of work not singling out a random single image.

  109. michael webster

    To appreciate the best of what Photographers like… produce …………… their photographs are best viewed as a body of work not singling out a random single image.

    Imants, I agree with that, but when someone makes an editorial choice with a photo I think it’s fair to ask about the editor’s thought process. Inquisitively, I should stress, not inquisitionally. And typically, that’s something editors can verbalize. I would never question why someone took a picture of a kitten, for example, but I’m interested in why an editor would choose to publish a particular image out of hundreds of other possibilities. With the kitten example, I’m not saying it shouldn’t have been chosen, I can think of several rational explanations for why it was, including Bob’s, but it’s a fair question. And I think it’s an interesting question that has the possibility of having an enlightening answer, should David choose to enlighten us. Twenty percent of the photos in the edit are animal photos. It strikes me as a theme. I see other themes as well, both narrative and visual. Am I seeing what was meant to be seen or simply finding my own way? The answers don’t matter, but the questions are a big part of why I love photography.

    Bob, well said as usual. Let’s grant that any kind of enforceable rules would never work, but do you not think there are valuable guideposts for good photography as there are for similar arts such as literature or painting? In the short time I’ve been paying attention I can’t recall you ever offering a single piece of constructive criticism, much less any kind of negative reading, about the work of any photographer. I guess I just figured you were a “if you can’t say something nice, say something nice anyway” type of guy, which I would consider to be an admirable trait. But do you believe, as I think you imply, that there is no such thing as objective quality in photography? That it is entirely subjective and that each opinion is as valid as any other? I can see making that argument in a philosophical sense, but in practice I see that some work is better than others and believe that there are at least some objective explanations for it. Isn’t that why we have museums, galleries, prestigious publications, academics and critics? Is the whole intellectual edifice nothing more than wankery?

    Regarding the edit thing, I didn’t take it as an invitation to a pissing contest. Sounds like my kind of fun, actually. I wish I had the time to take a whack at it. I enjoy editing large projects like that but fortunately have my own editing to worry about and too much other life right now to devote the massive amount of time it would take to do it right. Of course I would always lean towards helping someone if asked or taking an editing project on as a job, but neither of those cases apply and unfortunately “for fun” is just not on the table at this moment.

  113. Justin Smith

    Bob, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I definitely agree with you that most edits will reflect more about editor than than the photographer – I thought that it would be interesting & educational to see the differences in where the editors are coming from… indeed, if two edits were closely the same, I think that I would be disappointed. Definitely no replacement for “true” edited essay with the photographers approval. I will have to go back through the archives to read the discussion from the previous Burn “edit war”.

    Imants, I guess we could put you down as “not interested”? :-)

    Michael, You are absolutely correct. Not a pissing contest, and as Panos previously wrote “not necessarily competing with DAH or anything like that”. No disrespect intended to the current edit of Wandering in Greece – just thought an “edit war” (tongue in cheek title) sounded like fun.

  114. Imants

    No “not interested” is more like why piss up the wall when gravity is doing the job

    …….. attitudes like this
    “indeed, if two edits were closely the same, I think that I would be disappointed.”
    ……make the process a bit suss, the images may dictate the edit, this means the photographer is more than capable of communicating her/his intent.

  115. Justin Smith

    “the images may dictate the edit, this means the photographer is more than capable of communicating her/his intent”

    Fair enough. Point taken.

  118. david bowen

    i think any photographers output is best viewed as a body of work – individual singles and even ¨stories¨ on a website do not hold the same interest unless they can be seen in that context.. a continuing theme..
    the greatest of ¨long projects¨ is life.

  119. Jacopo Quaranta

    I think that people before writing should think better.

    This peace it’s probably one of the most difficult to realize, one of the most powerful, and complex I ever seen.

    The photographer show us a kicking-ass style, that it’s consistent in every single image, and it’s quite really strong.

    I would love to photograph how he does, it’s so complicated that I even can’t imagine what he’s thinking when it’s taking the picture, and at the end, it’s just perfect.

    Really impressive, I love this work.

    Jacopo

  120. eva

    “Isn’t that why we have museums, galleries, prestigious publications, academics and critics? Is the whole intellectual edifice nothing more than wankery?”

    Kinda makes me smile.. :)

  123. vicky slater

    Morning Panos, it’s probably already been said, I’ll read the statement and all 122 comments later :), but for me this just shouts ‘happy’.
    This is all about the photographer and I love that, you just come across as so likable, energetic, enthusiastic and joyful, and you also take great pictures!

  124. Pingback: Photo-Reportage & Co. » Archive » Les Tweets de la semaine 2010-03-07

  125. panos skoulidas

    morning Vicky..:)
    morning America…:)))

    raining in athens… i just came back with one more photo …
    lemme make a coffee first , clean up the bathroom of the friend house that offers me this week’s couch…
    and i’ll return with the photo i shot today…
    stay..

  130. Gordon Lafleur

    Imants

    It’s not about being “chosen” either.

    Compulsivly making photographs, like the compulsion to make music, or to dance, is an activity that is hard to explain or justify to people who do not get it.

    It is not about the “box”, the musical instrument, or the dancing shoes. It is about a way of experiencing our lives.

    You yourself have a compulsion to make images, though it seems you view making photographs only as a way of collecting raw material for them.

    Panos’ essay here is not just a set of images, the evidence of a pysical and emotional journey. In large part his camera has led him on that journey. A camera may be just a box, a flute is just a stick with holes in it, but both can take you places.

    You are only tethered if you allow yourself to be.

  131. jared iorio

    Finally got through all the “feedback.”

    Panos: Congrats on the press pass thing. Happy for you. Dropping a note to say you’re not missing anything on the left coast, so relax, and really sink in to the new (old) world.

    Laughing through the comments. ;)

  132. michael webster

    I really like #1. It’s tight, well-composed and evokes the melancholy drabness of the rainy day in the title. Number two is also tight and well-composed (in the traditional sense (both fit rule of thirds!)). It’s funny and perhaps evocative, but not really evocative of the rainy day in the title. Based on my taste and aesthetics and my observation that you do very well by having, mostly, though not entirely, opposite aesthetics, I’d say you should probably go with #2. Unless you have a third one that’s not so tight and (traditionally) well-composed ;).

    (Note: for the record, that’s the first time I’ve ever used a smiley. It feels so wrong…)

  133. Sidney Atkins

    As an essay, it is certainly ‘loose’. Granted, so is Panos. There are some fine photographs here…maybe #1, certainly #2, 6, 13, 18, 19, and 20. Personally, I don’t think the others measure up to the quality of these. And so, why show the others together with these? So we “get” Panos? To “round out” this impressionistic sketch of Greece? Or to “round out” the personality cult of Panos as some kind of lifestyle icon? Do we really need to see a ‘body of work’ every time, or just the best that someone can do?

    Nothing personal against Panos (I buried that hatchet a long time ago), and nothing against this whimsical and at times lyrical essay. More I guess about the discussion up till now about this essay. I’ve always been a heretic on the subject of ‘authorship’, at least in some of its manifestations and towards some of the justifications for it. DAH has generously put up with my heresies for a long time (but even his magnificently patient tolerance probably has a limit). I don’t expect my quirky outsider views will have much influence, and heaven knows I sympathise with the plight of anyone who is trying to make a name for themselves and support themselves primarily or solely through photography. (Just FYI, I am a ‘part-time’ pro… I get about one third of my income from photography these days). I’ve always felt that the business of the ‘artists’s unique personal vision’ thing, especially in photography, which is at root a very technical process, is overblown and exaggerated… part of a serious cultural imbalance rampant in modern Western culture that glorifies radical individual egotism and the cult of celebrity for its own sake. If a photographer’s vision were really ‘unique’, it wouldn’t resonate much with a wide audience. And all of us are bundles of influences, moods, our parents and lovers and friends, and all are products of history, place, and time. All stand on the heads of many, many who have gone before. And all are in constant flux.

    I have become a grudging supporter of Panos, not because of his lifestyle or looseness or because I think he’s cute, and certainly not for his past written style of expression here (won’t rake up the old embers), but because he is dedicated, and much more because he has shown an ability to grow… to see new things, to reach new understandings, to evolve and learn… in other words, to not keep on being ‘Panos’ the rogue caricature cutout, but to transcend his persona and grow into new understandings… and I suspect from his trajectory that he will continue to grow and learn and ultimately become a very different Panos from the one he thinks he is and many people here have known him as. The greatest thing I could wish for anyone is to grow beyond who they think they already are. I see that in the photos I listed here above.

  134. Gordon Lafleur

    Michael, the former smiley virgin,

    I like #2 as well, but would love to get the original file into photoshop. Panos, your grey vignettes are a bit ham-fisted I’m afraid. This image could sing.

    The out of focus cat picture, #8 seems to be a favourite for some. It doesn’t work for me. If it were in focus, it would be just another cute cat snapshot. What is it about subject out of focus, sharp background that seems to turn some folks on?
    There have been some very succesful examples of this technique over the years, Kliens menacing kid with the toy gun comes to mind, but it seems to have become over-used of late.
    I suspect it is a result of all those poor folks whe can’t afford auto-focus cameras and have to make do with those clunky rangefinder cameras where everything looks sharp all the time in the viewfinder :))

  135. panos skoulidas

    you’re not missing anything on the left coast, so relax, and really sink in to the new (old) world.
    ———————————————————————————————–
    Jared thanks… u know me well..& u know how much i worry about my beloved “left” coast… i feel better now:)

  138. panos skoulidas

    I suspect it is a result of all those poor folks whe can’t afford auto-focus cameras and have to make do with those clunky rangefinder cameras where everything looks sharp all the time in the viewfinder :))
    ——————————————————————————————————-

    Gordon cool…;)
    Michael , do u see now why “smileys” are so important????????
    ;)

  139. panos skoulidas

    I have become a grudging supporter of Panos, not because of his lifestyle or looseness or because I think he’s cute,
    ————————————————————————————————–

    what do u mean? of course i’m cute…:)
    Anyway, big hug Sidney.. you made my day (night)…

  141. Charles Peterson

    Panos,

    Back from Hawaii and just got the first chance to look at your essay (damn iPhone and no flash).

    Yes, it feels like you are happy. Some wonderful images – and a few I would lose. The kitten can go – too easy a target and devalues the others. Love the men in the truck – it’s what I think of when I think of Greece (though it’s been 26 years since I was there). Great to see you shooting and developing your style. Keep it up brother!

    CP

  143. Imants

    ” is an activity that is hard to explain or justify to people who do not get it.” ………. Nah I don’t buy that God like thinking Gordon, got better things to do, I don’t have intimate relationships with a lens less camera nor a flute ……………. a bassoon well now we are talking.

    No I don’t have a compulsion to make images, it is no different to sweeping a floor, walking a dog, building a stone wall, having a crap, looking out the window etc, it is just stuff to do.

  144. Charles Peterson

    Tsunami was a no show thank god. It was windy and heavy surf but a fantastic time nonetheless. My first time and won’t be my last. Got some great Felix pics frolicking in the surf. Ate lots of tuna, mercury be damned!
    :)

  145. Imants

    He Panos is this evidence of a physical and emotional journey, that deep and meaningful stuff (aka Dali Lama and the Hollywood cronies style) or are you taking happy snaps ?

  148. Gordon Lafleur

    “No I don’t have a compulsion to make images, it is no different to sweeping a floor, walking a dog, building a stone wall, having a crap, looking out the window etc, it is just stuff to do.”

    OK Imants, ..good to know where you are coming from.

  151. michael webster

    Michael , do u see now why “smileys” are so important????????

    No, I think the text should communicate levity, or any other feeling or emotion. But enough railing against the modern world. Time to join it. ;(

  153. Patricia Lay-Dorsey

    “No I don’t have a compulsion to make images, it is no different to sweeping a floor, walking a dog, building a stone wall, having a crap, looking out the window etc, it is just stuff to do.”

    I don’t have a compulsion to make images either, except when I do. If I’m not engaged in a project that stirs up my juices, I can go weeks without even taking my camera out of its bag. But when the passion strikes, I’m like a woman gone wild. Nothing else matters, except my sweetie that is. And even he can get short shrift when I’m on a roll. Can’t really explain it except to say I think I have an addiction to creativity.

    Patricia

  156. david_bacher

    Imants and Bob,
    No, I am not talking about my work when saying that a certain set of rules can enhance a photo. I do try and apply this to my work, because it appeals to me. Other people can do and are free to do what they want. You’re right Bob, we live in a non-linear world. I am by no means saying that a photographer should read the essays of Henri Cartier Bresson and follow his word. All I was trying to say about Panos’ pictures (some not all) is that they tend to fit into this category of organization and then for some reason they just fall short. Perhaps this is what Panos wanted? I don’t know. He didn’t respond to my previous comment.
    Sorry for sounding over pretentious in the first post. That wasn’t the intention.

  157. panos skoulidas

    David Bacher…:)

    first of all i totally accept the invitation A Paris…absolutely hell yeah…
    Sorry i didnt respond to you immediately… i didnt see a direct question at that point….
    apart from you thoughts that my composition is not at HCB’s standards ….
    A point that i have to accept…Maybe i should have involved the whole dog in photo no4, maybe
    i should have cropped differently the no16…
    maybe i should have the whole face of the old lady included in the photo below:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg02#5443792087781982594

    but i dont know…for some reason it has more appeal to me the way it is…
    Im not trying to break any rules….Breaking rules just to break rules is pretentious to me…
    I never try to break rules…when i break a rule is usually when i dont really know the rule exists …
    I dont have enough time to think of rules… i usually use my intuition…i shoot with both my eyes open..sometimes both closed sometimes not even looking through the finder…i do care..but its not always important to me…and sometimes i do everything by the book…

  161. michael webster

    Those Istanbul photos strike me as quite different compositionally from the Greek ones in the essay. Much tighter. Don’t know if the transvestite photo is well-balanced, but it’s certainly well-composed. As for cutting off the faces in that and the other with the kid and the lady; are you framing like that or cropping like that or both? At first glance one might think they are accidents that worked, but since there’s a trend, it appears to be a style.

  162. panos skoulidas

    Michael..to your question: Both..

    but since there’s a trend
    ——————————-
    since when thats a “trend”?..If it is believe me, i have/had no idea about it..

  163. panos skoulidas

    …to be more specific…none of those photos ( with cut faces ) is cropped in photoshop… neither the Istanbul lady ,nor the transvestite face nor the greek dog/police photo in this essay..

  164. panos skoulidas

    i am framing like this…(not always)…but not always success, of course…im putting folks in the edge of the frame intentionally…i dont really want them in my photo 100% ..i dont want them to be “main subjects” compositionally speaking…otherwise i center them..
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg02#5443791811158873202
    of course i do break that rule too when i have to..
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg02#5443791852325329138

  167. michael webster

    I haven’t been watching long, but it seems those Istanbul pics are subtly different from all I’ve seen before (at a glance, I really like #74). Did that workshop influence you in that direction?

  168. panos skoulidas

    Michael …Yes.. but not necessarily me doing an essay for the workshop ..
    Mostly my friendship with Nikos Economopoulos that started back in november…Assisting Nikos…looking at his edits in his studio for his upcoming book…endless talking …His critiques on students essays..
    the do’s & dont’s..the why’s…his theory about playing with reality …his “traditional” magnum approach in composition…yes it influenced the hell out of me…
    David Alan Harvey loves colors, Nikos loves colorless situations…David/lifestyle, Nikos more fly on the wall..HCB influenced…David’s connections(extroverted) is more my “style”..and Nikos’s techniques and subtle approach(introverted)brought me some kind of balance i needed…the balance i never had…

  169. a civilian-mass audience

    Where is KATHLEEN and MYGRACIE and all my BURNIANS…???

    oups…wrong aisle …blame the ouzo…Back to Working area…

    VIVA ZORBA…

  172. bob black

    David B ;)))

    NO ONE sounds more pretentious in writing on these blogs then i do ;))…it’s what annoys the hell out of me when i write on internet ;))…in real life, im actually quieter (sort of) and laugh a lot lot more (ask my wife)…and no way did i read anyone’s comments as being pretentious/obnoxious, no worries :))…

    i see panos essays (here, the istanbul, the Venice, the dark kids, his endless roadtrip/mustang pics) as all coming from the same place….the same cat i met in real life in ny…lots of energy and moments (alot really) of quiet…he is ‘loud’ in the sense of active and he is also a quiet observer (if you watch panos, as i did in ny, you’ll see he watches and listens, alot)…i spent more time actually n ny loft party/2 days watching others (i didnt take my camera, who needed it when there were like 250 photographers) and listening to what and how others said/spoke, etc…it’s always intriguing :))…so, i meant that panos does listen to alot of what people say (david, nikos, others) but and shoots both (in ways his heros shoot) ways…im not sure that a real Panos essay would ever confirm to a certain rule of either composition/moment (the pics) or a narrative…..for me, i always look at an essay more than 3 times…and over time, obviously, things shift…pics i liked at first stay, pics i dont like sometimes grown, some pics stay the same….i’m not sure even if ‘wandering greece’ is mean, in any way, to be a finished essay (as many essays here are) but really a window into what he’s seeing, how he’s speaking…in a way it’s more panos…for la-venice always seemed to me less about him (except for his brilliant captions) and mroe about the ‘state’ or rather a certain belief that venice was a certain way (very different from my own feeling toward venice when a spent 4 years in La-la land)…in a way, i think this is mroe panos (greece) than even istanbul (though i love the flying fish shot, the redbucket show, the boy in read sweater, 2 of the transvestite pics), etc….

    my lamentation is not whether people ever like another phtoographers work (it’s impossible to argue/convince that) but that we try to (if possible) recongize what makes something worthwhile, what makes a specific thing tick…and panos work will never be conscripted into an easy calculus of what a documentary/street photo essay should be…if it’s all over the place than that is too because panos, in truth, doesnt neatly discern into categories of what he likes/doesn’t like, and that goes for his eye/pics too….i find that refreshing and i smile when i see it, really….i think if panos pictures ‘fall short’ of a certain category (the moment, street photography, magnum idea, hcb, harvey, nikos, whatever) its because we’re grafting that on to them..

    i see his work, simpler: a guy who snaps the shit out of everything that is in front of him cause he’s jonzed by doing that…(remember the pic in the hotel room that got attacked by so many long ago?)….

    anyway…ok, gotta fly….

    i sometimes thing TOO MANY people tend to criticize because of their own expectations, their own personal expectations of their own work….i think the secure photographers tend to celebrate others work, regardless of whether or not it meets their own photographic expectation/criteria…..

    or maybe, im still very young and celebratory at heart :)

    no worries
    cheers
    bob

  173. jenny lynn walker

    Panos, I can’t hear any sound on here! How about adding your voice to it? To tell the story of your return to Greece in a free-flowing way centered on your most loved images – maybe up the number to say 50 with a sound track that takes the viewer/listener on the journey with you! Something akin to a poetry reading/performance with images!!!

    David Baker: image 16 is my second favourite after the dog/police shot! Seems we like the same images!

  174. Gordon Lafleur

    David B

    As Panos’ suggests, composition is something that is mostly done intuitivly. I agree that it is interesting that some of Panos’ stuff is pretty traditionally composed while some is pretty off the wall.
    I must say that the photos I like the best 1,7,18,20, tend to be the more traditionally composed ones. Do the less traditonally composed pics look more Panos-like?, perhaps.

  175. Anthony R.Z.

    Bob black,

    Very diplomatic opinion on Panos’ pictures… I like it your way… but I think it isn’t fair, and even a total absurdity, when some of us compare Panos photography with the greatest picture takers in our human history – HCB, Harvey, Nikos… ok, another thing: there is nothing wrong about being a wanabe, but some things here doesn’t look tasty at all… I mean, there is a lack of modesty… and from the mentors side, I am missing higher standards for those wanabes. Right now, seems, if the guy is nice, anything works. On the other hand, I know, there is some kind of politics involved… well, it’s business as well, workshops cost a lot, and there are so many guys with digital cameras (and not only digital) that have a strong desire to become PHOTOGRAPHERS… besides that, we know, photography isn’t without corruption :)), maybe that is how it should be… and my writing is absolutely pointless… E. Erwitt said: “a great picture is worth of thousand words”.

  176. panos skoulidas

    i sometimes thing TOO MANY people tend to criticize because of their own expectations, their own personal expectations of their own work….
    ———————————————————————
    …and their own disappointment from their own work…i would add
    tell it like it is bob… nothing more pathetic than a bitter, insecure “pro”…

  177. panos skoulidas

    … and from the mentors side, I am missing higher standards …
    —————————————————————–
    Right now, seems, if the guy is nice, anything works. On the other hand, I know, there is some kind of politics involved… well, it’s business as well…..
    ————————————————————–
    … besides that, we know, photography isn’t without corruption …
    ——————————————————————–
    and my writing is absolutely pointless…
    ———————————————————–

    wow…..

  179. Ross Nolly

    “besides that, we know, photography isn’t without corruption …”

    Panos; just slip a wad of greenbacks in a plain brown envelope to me under the table and I promise I’ll say something nice about your essay. Truly; I will…. :-)

  180. john gladdy

    “besides that, we know, photography isn’t without corruption …”…………no he’s absolutely right.
    ive had a couple of memory cards that became corrupted. :))

  181. Gordon Lafleur

    Anthony

    I think most posters here are brave and un-corrupted enough to give their honest opinion of work presented wether it is from a familiar face or not.

    I could not relate to Panos’ work when I first viewed his Venice Beach stuff, but it grows on you. You’ve gotta admit, a lot of very competent work out there kinda looks the same. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is true. If you clipped a lot of pics out of Nat Geo for example, and mixed them up in a pile, I suspect it would be difficult in many cases to pick out who did what based on syle. Good work is good work, especially in the commercial world (and I do lump PJ in there). A strong individual style sometimes is too much about the photographer and not enough about doing the job of telling the story.

    Getting back to Panos, there is no question his stuff has a look all it’s own. As I’ve posted before, I’m not sure if that look is a good thing or not, and I tend to relate most easily to his more traditonal looking shots, but, I cannot deny that I am curiously engaged by many pics that I would usually reject out of hand. Horrible light, ugly busy backgrounds, out of focus subjects, un-corrected colour, etc, and yet, there is something that is working here to make me look.

    I’m still trying to figure it out.

  183. michael webster

    Anthony RZ, I’d think a quick click on Panos’s name would end any questions about his skill as a photographer. Have you seen the Venice pics?

    But Bob Black, wtf? People who criticize photographs do so only out of personal disappointment and/or insecurity? Do you really mean that? Well-meaning people can’t respectfully disagree and discuss their differences in a forum that nominally encourages that kind of discussion? And editors? Let’s not even go there. But going beyond critiquing the critique to personally attack the critic? Is that a valid approach? In this case, several fairly prominent and well-respected photographers felt the photographer could have done a better job on the essay in question and gave specific advice that was both impersonal and within the bounds of historic photojournalism. Was that insecurity talking? Yea, I know you didn’t mean everyone who disagrees with you on the merits of a photo has personal issues, but how is one to tell when you shoot with such a wide angle?

  184. bob black

    michael:

    no, not at all….good god ;))…if everyone were to agree with me (or anyone else), i think we’d all hang ourselves (i would)….and i wasnt saying that people who disagree or not like work should fold up….in fact, i think dissension is much more interesting and productive then agreement, truth be told…my entire life as both a photographer and writer as been ‘in opposition’ (christ that sounds pretentious) to the prevailing winds…what i meant was that what many people sees as problems in others words, seem often to me more about themselves…and i dont mean that is the case here…a good editor or friend will say: ‘nope, doesnt work for me, here is the reason’…i’ve spent my fair time with editors and friends and publications and gallery owners and other photogs…and i was not dismissing others points-of-view or concerns….let me repeat, much of this has to do with the ‘way’ we communicate here (soliloquies, posts, etc) rather than a conversation face-to-face…etc….my ONLY objection to the comments, are more ideas of principle….i’d NEVER call a photographer’s work lazy based on an essay (that is lazy criticism) and i (personally) wouldnt attempt to try to critique a body work based on a ‘standard’ set of rules/guidelines….i thought almost everything that everyone wrote here was not only fine and not only reasonable to Panos and his ideas but absolutely legitimate…my discussion had more to do with how people think of ‘criticism’….

    that IS the problem with online ‘criticism’ and ‘discussion’ because at some point everyone tends to personalize what others write (i myself have struggled with this alot here, as a photographer and as a writer who, by force of a need for $$, has also had to write essays on photography, as to whether or not to write anything,)…i do think that often criticism from others comes from a place of their own struggles (that’s a big, maybe half-assed assumption, that’s based on being in the biz for a bit of time now) rather than dealing with the work at hand, that being said, yes, i would never take away someone’s desire or their right or, most importantly, their belief that something doesn’t work and that discussion could help….actually, good criticism, good thoughtful critique often helps infinitely more than empty applause….really….

    it’s like the days i write here (now) while postponing finishing an essay (now) ;)))))…i tell myself: wtf am i doing this for ;)))))

    wait for the book ;)))))…and carry on

    cheers
    b

  185. bob black

    by the way, maybe this is a bit clearer about how i take things ;))))….including what i write here :))…

  186. michael webster

    Yea Bob, I didn’t think you thought any of those bad things. The written word is slippery, especially in short bursts. Sometimes I get a bit bombastic when defending people’s right to criticize. But I understand getting a bit bombastic on the flip side, criticizing those who criticize poorly. Kind of depends on which side of the bed I wake up on.

  187. mtomalty

    Panos wrote,
    “its not always important to me to care so much for composition or rules”

    As well, you’re using the M8 and with that thing compositional accuracy
    is only a loose opinion

  188. tom hyde

    Panos, the whole world is watching the Hellenic Republic now … it is a fulcrum again. I listened to Papandreou interviewed on NPR today, impressive, and interviews on the street from Athens. So much focus on Greece. Beyond the protests, how does the country feel, person to person to person? No, no, do not tell me … you know what to do … finer and finer brush strokes, stories, show me stories … but not until it is the right time. Get some good shoes and get to work. Now is THE time … :)) I envy your position, right now, your life a funnel leading to this point. So what’s it going to be Panos? Peace brother :))

  189. david bowen

    gordon –
    i find the same with music as with photography – the longer it demands to to listen – longer it takes me to get a grip on it – the more longevity the work has..
    if i get into the ¨hook¨ tune instantly, i turn off from the tune very quickly..

    music and photography both change over time as we change.. burn has turned me on to all kinds of snaps which stay in mind.. and wandering back through my music always presents a new angle..

  191. john gladdy

    “the longer it demands to to listen – longer it takes me to get a grip on it – the more longevity the work has..” …..Trout mask replica anybody?? some boulez perhaps?? …..maybe a bit of Sun Ra? …..or maybe just dive into the original triple vinyl set of Thing Fish?

    or maybe kooki plops has it right after all…..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehHOqx7JXg

    enjoy :))

    john

  193. david bowen

    haha – fat pie is fantastic.. shared that link of faceplace.

    long live mahavishnu orchestra.. bitches brew.. squarepusher.. akufen..

    covered sun ra arkestra in scotland years ago – such a feakish bunch of mother-lovers.. just brilliant people having a right giggle.. wandering through the crowd.. tripping on their gowns.. tooting their horns..

  194. john gladdy

    David bowen. I wonder if our american cousins would get the humour in fat pie? Its so utterly british in its dark and twistedness that i think it scares a lot of johhny foreigner type people. sort of reminds me of a dick joke i made in davids loft at christmas. went down really quite badly :)..was like turning up to a Klan rally in a boy george outfit. oh well…:)

  195. panos skoulidas

    .was like turning up to a Klan rally in a boy george outfit
    ————————————————————-

    John…proceed with the joke , please…;)

  196. panos skoulidas

    …and with that thing compositional accuracy
    is only a loose opinion…
    —————————————–
    true…laughing….but not if u center “things”.. ;)

  197. panos skoulidas

    Charles…
    when i was a kid i was always dreaming of a Time Machine…
    i always wanted to go back in time..never cared so much of the future..but going back..
    that was the “place” to go… for me…and, i realized that,
    Istanbul….is a that place
    Istanbul..is like a de-ja vu..
    A dream…
    i cant wait to return..

  198. panos skoulidas

    …no he’s absolutely right.
    ive had a couple of memory cards that became corrupted. :))
    ————————————————–
    now, who can argue that???

  199. david bowen

    john..
    yesyes – had fun explaining what a w**ker was to my friends over the lake on more than one occasion..

    there is always the dead parrot to fall back on when our humor is taken too dry..

  200. panos skoulidas

    … it is a fulcrum again.
    ————————

    Tom H… absolutely…its the return of May of’68 here…
    Its an atmosphere of revolution…I can see Joan Baez & Bob Dylan re-starting
    their careers over here…Only Riot Police is hiring right now in greece…
    Spring is coming…yes its a paradise for story tellers and protest ballad song writers..
    people on the streets…little kids with their faces covered and rocks in their hands..
    Tom i think you are right… Its impossible to get bored over here..

    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/TIF18?authkey=Gv1sRgCP2vg7qtn8b78QE#5412559930132268354

  202. Glenn Campbell

    Panos- I love this one
    -54) poor old lady..trapped…in the middle…looks ahead..thinks its all clear…sure it is…:(

    But I’m not going to join the debate but I’m seeing a lot of the backs of peoples heads and the above picture is the only moment of humanity I can recognise!

    But you are a stanger in your home town and thats not an experience many have so now is the time!

  206. panos skoulidas

    But you are a stanger in your home town and thats not an experience many have so now is the time!
    ————————————————————————–
    yes one thing i “achieved” is the one u just described…i dont know what to make of it…
    for a second i thought i stuck in the twilight zone…but now “twilight zone” does not seem to be a bad place after all…its like being on a weird drug with no side effects and the best part is: no withdrawls …
    ;)

  216. Frank Michael Hack

    Have not had a chance to comment as yet. Have been working like a dog; 18 hour days and little sleep. Unfortunately not shooting but making money to pay the bills. I also hesitated on commenting on the essay because at first I wasn’t sure what to say, and reading all the comments has been a task in and of itself. I have gone back and forth between disappointment with the essay to feeling something more subtle and whimsical in the work. If I look at the essay technically I am disappointed. Many of the photos seem to lack the qualities that I would typically look for in a good photo in terms of lighting, composition, color and context. I then ask myself is this an intentionally chosen style, aka fuck the rules and just shoot? When I look at the essay in this context I think to myself that there is a lightness and a soul and meaning in these photos.

    I too grow tired of the same typical ‘pretty’ pictures, and these certainly are not those. I find a similar style in some of my own photos and these are often the ones I like but think that I am going to get shit for them these because they do not meet the standard of “rules”of photography. DAH has said many times that you have to have authorship because the technical challenge and artistry in taking pictures has been reduced and the playing field has been leveled. The art of photography has been lost when anyone can pick up a digital camera and take a technically good picture. So where do you go next. Authorship, vision, personality, story, access and context are all that really matter at the end of the day. In this I think Panos has succeeded. To the uninitiated these photos will perplex and leave many scratching their heads, however to the masters of the craft the vision and all seeing eye become revealed. So in a way there is an inside joke or cult of personality taking place here, but isn’t that the case with all great art and artists?

    Congrats Panos. Hoping someday we will be in the same room and be able to chat and have a beer.

    All the best,

    Frank

  217. Charles Peterson

    “when i was a kid i was always dreaming of a Time Machine…
    i always wanted to go back in time..never cared so much of the future..but going back..
    that was the “place” to go… for me…and, i realized that,
    Istanbul….is a that place
    Istanbul..is like a de-ja vu..
    A dream…
    i cant wait to return..”

    Oh man that is my feeling exactly. It is a deep mysterious place, the place of being a young child and reading dusty history books and seafaring novels on rainy days (and even sometimes sunny ones) in an overstuffed chair. Yes it is a place I will return to too.

  218. Imants

    “the place of being a young child and reading dusty history books and seafaring novels on rainy days”…….. The ladies may have been fine but the food and sanitation was crap

  223. Ross Nolly

    I dunno Imants. When we were kids we used to take great delight shining the torch down the old long drop! Mind you; we were easily amused way back then…

  224. Imants

    Not a restroom as one srta doesn’t want to lie down……… Ross, the drop zone was a long way down for us kids this is shoe height. Yea loved the old mine shafts and waiting for the splash

  225. Ross Nolly

    John G;

    “sort of reminds me of a dick joke i made in davids loft at christmas. went down really quite badly :)..was like turning up to a Klan rally in a boy george outfit. oh well…:)”

    I’ve had similar experiences when staying in backpacker hostels here in NZ. Not every joke translates well, even worse if they think you’re being serious…. Of course; maybe my jokes just weren’t funny!

    As we say here some have gone down as well as “a bucket of cold sick…” :-)

  226. panos skoulidas

    John G;

    “sort of reminds me of a dick joke i made in davids loft at christmas. went down really quite badly :)..was like turning up to a Klan rally in a boy george outfit. oh well…:)”

    …. Of course; maybe my jokes just weren’t funny…
    ———————————————————————-

    he he……maybe,,,,,

  235. panos skoulidas

    Sorry Glenn..
    yes Nana is giving the money back…:)
    DavidB…laughing , BaNana is funny…i hope most of the folks with their fat pensions should do the same, at least around grecolandia..same with the big fat greek Church…they should help this country ..not with silly prayers but with their gold…and we are talking …lots of gold

  236. peter grant

    Hi Panos.

    I can see you have a good eye for seeing an interesting image. I won’t say to much as I can see you’ve already received many comments as I have arrived late. I feel as you hone your technical skills you’ll become a good photographer as you have the ingredient a good photographer must have in their heart, an ‘eye’ for locating and seeing a way an image can look. Technical stuff has been my main failing, but, an interesting image is an interesting image.

    take care buddy.
    peter.

  237. david bowen

    nana has made an excellent example..
    just like the u.k. hsbc bank, which last year and this donating all the boss bonuses to charity.. the only bank to do so..

    i know thats more about pr – but really would not have happened 10 years ago..

  239. panos skoulidas

    PeterG…good morning from grecolandia… 9:44am here…coffee making & getting ready for the demonstrations of the day…big..massive strike today in greece…athens is stuck..not moving…may of 68 continues…stay tuned..

  244. panos skoulidas

    sorry..that is the greek room…

    panos skoulidas
    March 11, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    OK ALL..FIVE MORE MINUTES..and i’ll post a slideshow…
    today it was the most intense street fights i ever witnessed…
    in the streets of Athens…
    big fat greek mess…
    at one point when the chemicals were getting dropped like crazy…
    i thought i saw zoriah… sorry i meant to say “messiah”…
    (oh btw..who wants to sign in for a greek workshop called Athens on Fire?
    i only charge $8000 euro and u get the Tear gas for FREE…yes free..
    the last day free field trip to Acropolis..
    laughing….
    stay tuned..couple more minutes..

    ALL PHOTOS HERE..PROOF SHEET..CLICK ON A PHOTO TO ENLARGE IT..ENJOY:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/JPEG04#

  252. michael webster

    Hey Panos, exciting stuff. In light of recent conversations and all the frickin time I’ve spent looking at your photos, I’m curious about a couple things. Don’t know if these questions fall under the category of “tech talk” or some other category you don’t want to talk about. If so, that’s fine. But in general you seem to like talking about your photography, so I risk it.

    First thing I noticed, outside of the content, was the canyon like shooting conditions in those streets. Patches of bright sun and dark shadow. Blue skies, to make it worse. Living in Brooklyn, I fight those same conditions all the time. I just wondered if you had any thoughts on shooting in those conditions?

    Also, I don’t think you’ve said so explicitly, but it seems you’re presenting your work with no cropping or retouching. I’ve been assuming that’s for aesthetic or philosophical reasons. Don’t know if it’s even true, much less why, but wondered if you’d share your thoughts on the subject?

    I’ve wanted to ask those questions for awhile (again, if that’s invasive, no big deal, just say so or ignore), but looking at #29 gave me the last bit of incentive. I’d say that’s either a great photo or very, very close.

  254. panos skoulidas

    I just wondered if you had any thoughts on shooting in those conditions?
    ————————————————————————-

    u mean if i like or hate those conditions? If i understand the question right …i have admit that it doesnt matter..in fact i think i like “horrible” lighting conditions..but mostly it is what it is..but in general i dont like average metering or well read photos..i think that huge “stop” differences ..squinting…is “interesting”..especially if im not sure about the “message”…John said earlier why not show my anger..
    Believe it or not..i wasnt angry at all…
    confused and really scared at times…yes i admit it…i didnt want to show the clash/fights either… thats Nachtwey job…really..and no..laughing ..i didnt throw any stones..

  255. panos skoulidas

    post processing…i didnt use vignetting this time although i love vignette..firstly because of a tunnel suffocating feeling and secondly brings some detail in the overexposed areas…
    but some times i use the raw plug in to reduce highlights.. some times i over do it with extra sharpening and thats also obvious i think..

  256. panos skoulidas

    In general..i shoot for the DARk..i want the BLACK as BLACK as possible..thats my main goal and my main technique..even if this will destroy the highlighted areas…if and when i use aperture priority i underexpose from -2/3 to a -1 stop… All i care is the Black..thats the only point of reference i care about..mostly..

  257. panos skoulidas

    you’re presenting your work with no cropping or retouching. I’ve been assuming that’s for aesthetic or philosophical reasons.
    —————————————
    yes and no..i do crop sometimes..but not to create a “new” photo…(unless its for a customer;)..
    but croping,dodging,burning..is widely accepted techniques..no, im not a “purist” ..i accept technology therefore digital..and as i admitted above i love high contrast plus sharpening…Life is never that contrasty as i present it..I dont claim the truth…All im trying (mostly with no success) is to present my truth they way i felt it..at that particular moment..Happy i am not very often…I try to present my “feeling” of what happened..I believe all of us have different antennas…before i shoot i see a photo..then i “demand” from my self to bring it to life..
    yesterday i didnt edit…i showed everything…i never shoot more than one or two rolls of film…60 exposure in the course of a whole day shoot..theres been times i came back home with one or two shots..
    I pre edit my thoughts…8 days in Istanbul and i only shot 187 photos..one 2gb card..or 5 rolls of film…
    honestly..thats why i dont need a faster camera..i pre edit in my mind the 7 out of the 8 shots that a motordrive can allow me per sec..i dont shoot whatever happens..but i shoot whatever happens in my mind..

  258. panos skoulidas

    so..my only tool is Adobe raw plug in..blackening (if i didnt succeed, highlight reduce,sharpening and some time a dose-big dose- of vignette if i felt depressed at that time..)

  260. panos skoulidas

    Michael..thanks for asking…one last thing..i dont care much about “photojournalistic reality” or artsy bullshit either..its only my crooked prism/subjective vision im trying to express.. im not trying to satisfy DAH nor John or anybody but…myself…my starving spirit..starving to be expressed…now thats the motivation….im not a follower and definitely not a leader…not a genre defying photographer either…
    just me being me..or at least trying..Im a “me” wannabe ..and i know that bothers some…
    it is what it is…

  262. michael webster

    Thanks, Panos.

    u mean if i like or hate those conditions?

    No, just wondered if you considered them, had any particular strategies.

    Believe it or not..i wasnt angry at all…

    I have no problem believing that. I figure it’s natural for photographers to focus so intently on the visuals that all else falls away, including emotions. Or maybe I’m just projecting?

    im not trying to satisfy DAH nor John or anybody…

    Yea, that’s pretty clear.

    and i know that bothers some…

    pas moi.

    Regarding the more technical stuff — shooting for black, not snapping away, etc — thanks again. Just so there’s no misunderstanding, I’m not criticizing or arguing or following or anything except curious. I have my own approaches to all these issues, which I like to talk about, but don’t remotely believe there’s a right way for everybody.

  263. john gladdy

    im not trying to satisfy DAH nor John or anybody but…myself…my starving spirit..starving to be expressed…now thats the motivation….im not a follower and definitely not a leader…not a genre defying photographer either…
    just me being me..or at least trying.

    ……thats really all you have to do, all anyone can do.

  269. panos skoulidas

    “Chasing the Light”

    NEW SLIDESHOW
    NEW SLIDESHOW….link below…

    1) I’m dreaming of pictures like this..
    2) and light like this..
    3)but Athens hides behind its finger sometimes..
    4) After i found the killer..
    5) and became friends temporarily…
    6) i befriended an immigrant…
    7) i witnessed another immigrants arrest..
    8) Obviously he knew the cops very ..very well.
    9) Im here for the light ireminded my self.
    10) and the light was there.
    11) to meet me..
    12) and greet me..
    13) …to embrace me..
    14) sunset..time to go out of control..for some.
    15) and relax for others..
    16) greek food and tsipouro…
    17) old lady selling….flowers
    18) i got tired…decided to get back in the metro..
    19) waiting in the metro..
    20) Trains were passing me by.
    21) i got the best seat in the house..
    22) i witnessed love once again..i felt better..
    23) next morning…i woke up alone…it was Raining in Athens

    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg03#

    enjoy..from athens with love

  271. damoncoulter

    People are talking of numbers bigger than 20 but the essay i see only goes to 20 so my favourite in this is 18. More traditional perhaps but does it for me. I haven’t read all the comments just a flavour, agree with what Sidney said, when Panos first exploded here he was annoying to say the least and his work didn’t live up to the bombast of his on-line persona, but he has grown and learnt and though his style may not be for everyone’s taste and certainly in this essay (all 20 pics I can see anyway) he is showing less of his undoubted talents just look at the Venice Beach work and see how powerful it is. That growth has been a no-holes barred instruction for everyone on the necessity of the burning loving of photography and has been quite inspirational. You get pure Panos: the burn personality and the work on the Picassa albums is part of his thinking process. It is all of his manic energies available. Now for many aspiring photographers showing your diary images, your whimsies and snapshots of caught-eyed passages and personal humour would be too dangerous a thing to make live and available to editors and potential clients. Let’s face it when building a reputation you want to control what it will look like. That many here and everywhere else now knows and likes Panos is a compliment surely to his real, face to face personality. He can put this “stuff” up and it acts more like part of his biography. Man the guy has so much energy and you see that when he directs that to work he comes across and feels passionate about it works magic. Snops shots aside, Panos can shoot when he needs to and is confident enough in that to let us see his experiments. Not all of which can be expected to work of course.
    Damon

  279. panos skoulidas

    Stefan Rohner
    March 16, 2010 at 4:19 pm
    this is really disappointing.
    =============================

    i “apologize” then… i know u expected more from ME…but thats what happens when u put artists/lovers on the pedestal…
    ..im just an artist..please dont treat me just like u treated your ex girlfriend/boyfriend…
    plz break free from your “audience” expectations…or at least..try.. try to see me for who i really am…and stop fantasizing…will u?

  281. Stefan Rohner

    panos skoulidas
    March 16, 2010 at 10:57 pm
    …will u? Idiot…
    ________

    was the “idiot” for me? ;) if yes, I take it with honor, prefer to be a “idiot”, better then a burn parrot what praises all what is uploaded here. I dont know you at all, so no “idiot” for you, “expectations” nor “pedestal”.

  282. david bowen

    come, panos.. dignity and humility.. keep grace..

    stefan – good to see you here.
    it´s not all praise – check out the current essay by ellie..
    stick around and tuck into the ´dialogue´ section..

    you n panos both admire honesty.. given a fish lunch on a hot beach you´d probably get along.
    d

  283. panos skoulidas

    ok…I know , “keep grace” is what i should do..i agree…reacting or responding in a violent manner is a loss of energy..even being “hurt” is some sort of violence that we allow to happen…Last night as i was returning back to my “couch” from a nice night out with a friend..i got this email..from my friend Shane from Texas..Shane and i are friends for the last 20 years.. he even stayed in my home back in LA for months at a time..3 years ago moved to san antonio..Also a photog but mainly a great painter…great artist..

    “…hay bro i just got out of yhe hospital and am about to go have surgery OPEN HEART surgery nextweek so call me caus i dont know whats gonna happen to me later sooo i want to talk to you before i go in call me call me!!…”
    —————————————————-

    Shane is also 42…but been cursed to live with diabetes since birth…that complicated his health and life so much..to the point of open heart surgery coming up..next week..
    Anyway..i got the news 5am this morning…intoxicated …and it hit me..i had a horrible night..i was so irritable that when i read Pete’s comment or Stephan’s …i went bizerk (berserk) … i was feeling some sort of guilt of me being (relatively) healthy and by buddy shane waiting for the surgery..thats why the phrase:” this is really disappointing…” (with no further explanations) hit a nerve…its one thing not to like something…that i get…but to be disappointed to me at least means..i expected more from you..i know you..you can do better…
    but now its noon..and i know that its not my fault that my buddy Shane is going for a surgery..and its not my fault that an essay disappoints someone..
    so DavidB is absolutely right…honesty is important..plus alcohol and Bad News never mix well…i got caught unprepared…
    big hug y’all
    peace

  284. Stefan Rohner

    David, I hope your doing well! all fine on this side… business going well and family also all nice. I have forgotten about this place, since month I was not here, yesterday skyping with a photographer friend he asked me if I have seen the latest burn uploads, after the call I came here and looked a little around…

    no need to analyze the “idiot” comment, it tells a lot about the author and his character. he should close his pictures in some bookshelf and not show it to puplic, if he is not able to let stand words alone without an “idiot” reaction. also there is the possibility to place a police man beside every picture, these guys could control what visitors have to say. “yes you can” or “no thats a forbidden opinion”.

    I just take picture number 02, two ladies on a balcony. any experienced photographer can see that the post process and light is crap. what is the main motive? the buildings in the back or the two ladies? foreground where? all middle horizontal composition? muddy grey burning of the edges? a wonderful metal column sticking out of a head? all no problem if you have a strong message or some strong emotion, but here? here it only creates a weak image.

    please excuse me for interrupting the “group” feeling of this place…

    David, best! see you again in some month ;)

  285. panos skoulidas

    no need to analyze the “idiot” comment,
    —————————————–
    but u just did..!!!????
    anyway Stefan…i apologize again for the upsetting comment…
    and thanks for explaining and taking time (today) to express what u dont like..in the photos..
    no police here needed…just explanations…remember all the negative comments Jim
    used to collect because of generalizations of the same kind..
    “i dont like it”.. “disappointing”…etc..

    please excuse me for interrupting the “group” feeling of this place…
    —————————————————-
    he he..u obviously havent been here lately…
    big hug…
    (i tried to sent u a private email too..but your address nowhere to be found..!!??)

  287. michael webster

    any experienced photographer can see that the post process and light is crap…

    That was my first reaction, too, but David Harvey and Anton seem to like it so I take more time than I normally would and try to see what they see. I’ve usually found that little exercise to be worth the effort.

    Now I like the diagonals in that photo, particularly how the light diagonals work with the expression diagonals. It’s beautiful.

    Sorry to hear about your friend, Panos.

  288. Stefan Rohner

    Panos it is ok.

    Michael, also experienced photographer should take time and analyze pictures, I dont need David or Anton to “see”, I can “see” and decide for myself.

  289. panos skoulidas

    Michael, Stefan..:)
    just for the fun of it..i will post the original file of photo number 2 here in a couple days (once i reunite with my hard drive )..im also curious to see what the hell was i thinking by adding the “vicious” vignete although i think i remember…
    Stefan..the main motive for “destroying”/abusing the color of the photo creating a hard to not notice suffocating feeling (at least for me) is the story of the two ladies/georgian immigrants…
    i posted the whole story in a previous post…The mother (older lady) she just had arrived illegally from Georgia by bus hiding in a suitcase under the truck (luggage area) hiding there for a brutal 14 hour trip …from the turkish borders to athens..maybe b&w would have worked better..Gordon wants that file to play/mess with this photo too..i’ll be more than happy to see the results after he messes with it…
    but yes thats the story behind the picture and that was my main motive to mess with it..
    subconsciously i was upset when they told me the full detailed story of their trip.. when i see the bright greek blue skies in the original files i didnt like the lovely positive feelings/message i was getting:
    “oh welcome to greece..the promised land”..no…welcome to the land of the foreigner/immigrant abuse…welcome to that endless tunnel …where u get jailed if u dont have the right “papers” with u when u get a randomn check by the cops ..

    Few days ago i was walking around Acropolis..in Athens…Suddenly i heard screams and beating going on…
    Then i saw a tall angry greek guy punching the hell out of a pakistani guy until blood was coming out of the immigrants mouth…I soon realized what happened…Supposedly the immigrant was selling illegal cell phones..they apparently bought a phone for 130 Euros that was broken or who knows what…the greek guy (with his girlfriend on the scene) came back and took the law on their hands…they beat the hell of the poor guy until the cops arrived..
    The police arrived …blood was coming out of the guy…the immigrant was insisting he wasnt the cellphone dealer…that the couple was looking for someone else…but too late..the guy in handcuffs with broken teeth and nose..

    photo below is seconds before cops arrived at the seen…with the help of the bystanders of course..obviously the guy didnt care about police…he wanted REVENGE ..he wanted to serve justice himself..with bare hands…i will never forget that when the immigrant was crying for help the “girlfriend” was shouting at him: “my father is a COP…u can call the police all u want…i will fuck u up…”

    click link here:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg05#5448529226856213074

  290. eva

    Panos.. hope you wont get the woman in trouble by posting her picture and all the details…?

  291. panos skoulidas

    Ahh Eva..i wish i was the problem..i wish i was the exploiter here..Greece just passed a new “softer” law for the immigrants…There are thousands and thousands all over athens and greece..the problem is deep and unresolved…the police has so much work every day on the streets..jails are full..there is practically no more space for arrests…what the police does lately is simply chase them around..
    the immigrants carry their “goods for sale”..in big white canvases..they set up on a pavement for couple minutes..then cops arrive..no arrest..little chase…then set up again…then chase again…to be arrested they have to either ask for papers in the street or catch somebody selling something…”my ladies are not selling in the streets..cleaning houses or take care older people..living with them..never leave the house..never go out…no personal life..24/7….

    here is the chase in the streets:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/GreekEssayJpegs?authkey=Gv1sRgCPGf4afvjPLKqgE#5411052387985581794

  300. aitken

    Hey Panos,
    how about this for a project….
    Go and live/embed yourself with the street traders, follow their lives,misery,police harrasment that would be quite a coup.

    ian

  301. michael webster

    I dont need David or Anton to “see”, I can “see” and decide for myself.

    Fair enough, Stefan, me too. But if being an experienced photographer (or experienced anything) means that one has developed an inability to learn from others, then I hope never to be that experienced. But whatever. I really like your work, btw.

    Yea Panos, now that you’re clear about it, I don’t see what you are trying to communicate in that photo. Not being familiar with the place and times, I didn’t recognize them as Georgian immigrants. Thinking back, I assumed they were Greek and members of your family, probably since I knew there are family photos among the pictures in that essay. Another example of the nature of photography, for good or ill, eh?

  302. panos skoulidas

    Another example of the nature of photography, for good or ill, eh?
    ————————————————
    Michael..yes..exactly….

    I don’t see what you are trying to communicate in that photo
    ——————————————
    it was the strike of light in their faces i cared about..in a way it symbolized their thin…tiny hope of their “new” life..

  304. aitken

    Panos, it seems to me you have a load of really interesting stories there in greece..georgian immigrants, street traders, the distrust of immigrants, the financial situation, the tourist trade (how it has brought wealth but also debouched behaviour by holiday makers).
    Greece seems to be a place with alot of change going on at the moment.

    I know of one story I would like to cover (if I can get the funds to do it) that has contributed massively financial crisis at the the moment.

    Cheers

    ian

  305. panos skoulidas

    Also the photo number 17..in this essay..
    Immigrants from pakistan wandering around a small greek town starving, no help except Red Cross..
    To make things worst the fear of the locals..created some crazy stories..Those immigrants are accused of killing and eating the dogs/pets of the locals…”Demons”..The pakistani immigrants are now victims of the albanian mafia…they “hire” them only for one plate of food for a whole day of work in the fields…they leave under the bridges…get sick and no doctors will treat them..they are demons..

  307. panos skoulidas

    photo no3..immigrant street fair also..
    photo no4..from an immigrant protest…
    photo no6..symbolizes the immigrant soul landed in the “greek promised land”..
    photo no14..also symbolizes the wish to tranfer to a better, prosperous land..the need to escape..

    why all that? my whole greek essay is about the Immigrant dream, the immigrants soul.fears,wishes….
    why? Because it is autobiographical..because that Immigrant is ME..
    and finally the photo no1
    ahhhhhhhhhhh..the photo no1..the pigeon that is taking off..
    ahh thats the Immigrant spirit…my spirit…that is ready to depart for a new land..
    “The No Direction Home” land..
    my land..
    or the “go back home” land…

  308. panos skoulidas

    …when the greek essay first came i got an email..from a good friend of mine , also saying:”I’m disappointed because i see no greece in your essay..show me greece..where greece is?”
    im an immigrant of this world..i cant show greece..i dont even know what greece is either …i was simply born there…then my pigeon soul flew over another country…i cant describe my “other” home either..whats the name of those birds that they leave once the winter comes and return with summer? i forget the name..but that is my soul..that is why “wandering in greece”..

  309. aitken

    Hey Panos, I an not questioning your essay, I can see what you are doing.

    Just thought I’d throw in a few ideas…..

    I

  311. panos skoulidas

    again.. i just grabbed the opportunity to explain some extra things to Burn and myself…
    and i totally agree with you..thats why i thought of befriending an immigrant..get an “insider” and become insider myself…not exploit anyone..
    ploblem is as Eva stated i cant photograph..illegals…mention names..where they live etc..i have to portray “legal” immigrants…so they are not in danger…many people watching the web lately..and i would never forgive myself if anyone gets in trouble because of a freakin essay…

  312. aitken

    Panos, I understand the issue of getting people into trouble, but surely this is not an issue but an excuse. I think there have been essays on here where people have been up no good and yet their stories are photographer/published for let’s say “the greater good”, which in its self is a tricky argument as who’s good is it? When I worked on a documentary in Soweto (S.A) the working mantra of the film was “who benefits” this applied both to our working ethos but also to the main questions of the post apartheid south africa.

    I think there was an essay on immigrants crossing the mexican border a while back.

    cheers

    I

  320. panos skoulidas

    from Patrick Zachmann:
    Greece. August 2009. Island of Samos. Greek coast guards patrol the Agean sea where illegal immigrants try to cross the border coming from Kusadasi on the Turkish side. They want to arrive in Europe where they can ask for asylum and make a new life. Most of them come from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Eastern Europe, Algeria, Morocco or Palestine. The migrants usually pay traffickers between 1000 and 2000 dollars, depending if one of them will go with the migrants or not. In 2008 police arrested around 2700 illegal immigrants in Samos alone and 80000 in all of Greece. Here, 18 migrants are found at 5:20am. One coast guard is drawing a rifle on them as if they were criminals and shouts: “Hands up! Don’t touch the boat!” Migrants often try to cut their dinghy so that the coast guards are forced to save them from sinking. In this way they are sure that they won’t be sent back to Turkey. They are claiming they are “Afghans” in order to get the international status of refugees and protection. One of the guard coast shouted back: “If you are Afghans, I am Swedish!” They will be arrested by police, their fingerprints taken and sent to the detention center on Samos.

  321. AndreaC

    Very lovely pictures – most. I wish it were longer. I haven’t read the whole discussion but i got up to the beginning of the discussion about editing and nice things being in the link that were chopped out. I think its about time I say something that I’ve thought for a long time. The editing in many Burn essays is off. I don’t think Harvey is as good an editor as he thinks. I think he should respect the choices of the photographers a bit more and make it more a joint effort rather than running slipshod over their work.

    To clarify, though its not a case here. Often i’ve noticed that the start of an essay includes a number of strong images that don’t link together. Its like some images are chosen the represent the edges of the topic. When viewing the beginning, I often have the feeling of being at sea about what’s going on. After a bit, the images start to show more links to each other and the story starts to flow and make more sense and at the end, are a few weaker pictures. Undoubtedly people – if anyone reads this – will not understand what I am trying to say here. I am not sure I am being too clear. Still, i have noticed this in quite a few essays and have held my tongue til now.

  322. panos skoulidas

    “The editing in many Burn essays is off. I don’t think Harvey is as good an editor as he thinks. I think he should respect the choices of the photographers a bit more and make it more a joint effort rather than running slipshod over their work.”
    ——————————————————-

    Andrea..:)
    Firstly thank you for checking the essay…(and thanks for wishing it was longer..i posted more links under comments so feel free to see more and more…plus more coming up as im still shooting in greece)..

    and i have to admit u got some balls to write off Harveys editing skills…
    Personally i dont “let” D. edit just because he is David… i trust his experience and poetic nature..As far as i know though, he always runs the edit back to the photog…
    just to be in the same page with them (us)..And i think that he edits ONLY if he is asked…For example , slideshows or multimedia ( think Imants essay ) are small example of “unedited by DAH” presentations…
    I dont know what other essayists have to say but in my case there was a lot of back and forth going on editing wise (through skype of course )till we end up in the final (for Burn of course ) edit …
    Most of the essays here are evolving …not done..work in progress..therefore…edit is subjective and represents the given time been published…

    but anyway..this is your opinion..its respected and obviously , as you wrote above, this is something u wanted to say and communicate for quite a while now…
    peace

  323. Herve

    Photos shot in Greece, but not of Greece, a perfectly sensitive and actual approach, not the least unnatural or insincere for that, on the contrary. some shots leave me blank, but most I find totally enjoyable and worthy of scrutiny. What is seen, not seen, said, not said. Keep up that good work, Panos, and thanks for these vignettes of life somewhere, Greece accidentally, in 2010. Gorgeous, positive (?) color palette in the portraits (+context) one, that I had not seen in your LA work so much.

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