23 thoughts on “there is no night or day…”

  1. Gordon Lafleur

    Never been to Vegas, they almost pay you to come there from here actually. It’s just too bizarre for me I’m afraid. Never never land, alternate universe. Harvey, today I went for a walk with my dog in the woods. The trees and the colour (now that pisses me off when the spell check highlights colour, cuz that is the REAL spelling), and I’m thinkin’, there’s no way I can get all this amazing beauty into this little pissy ass little camera. And I’m thinkin’, there’s no way you can get the craziness of Vegas into a photograph. But I hope you keep trying.
    I keep trying.

  3. david alan harvey

    GORDON

    i know the feeling…however, not sure it is ever necessary to capture everything we see, all that we experiece in one place, in one picture…sometimes it works, but i think if you try too hard to get everything into one picture you will get really stuck…a microcosm of the whole is often representative of the whole without having all that you see in it imo..at the same time, i too will keep trying….trying is all we can do…

  4. Jukka Onnela

    David, there isn’t no night or day either in Athens, Greece, this city feels like a visual paradise plus the stories, amazing , just amazing. Panos wtf you doing there, come here, gonna be here whole month. Have been up like 50 hours, can’t sleep, wont sleep.. Hope all’s good. Hugs

  5. wendy

    for me vegas is pure fantasy…
    people crave…
    what not to love?!
    :)
    of course there are also all the stories of broken dreams too…
    but i like the fantasy part…
    ***

  7. edite

    David, 

    I love love love this image. As a designer, art director, architect, film maker and photographer. I see this as something that could come from a mind and heart that think and feel in all those dimensions. I wonder how it came about in your mind to generate it like this or was it an organic patch? I understand the night and day overlapping, the twisted hours and the sleep behind the curtains. I’m more talking about the visual, the trimetry, the rule of thirds, the complementary colors, perspective, composition and balance, along with the blending of time and space. 

    You may not be capturing all Las Vegas here, but I think you’re masterfully combining so many visual principles, it almost makes my mind spin. And it’s pretty :)

  15. michael kircher

    BTW… good interview. Congrats!!

    Funny thing: When you click on “translate” on that page, David’s initials sometimes come up as DAH, sometimes DHA, and once as ADHD. Kind of fits, eh?

  18. a civilian-mass audience

    WOWWWWWWW…JUKKA…in Grecolandia…oime…I am in the west side…
    working like a dog…VIVA IMF…of course,I have olives and ouzo and chickens…
    welcome home JUKKAAAA

    THOMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS?? are u in Athens too?…

    What not to love!!!!!!!!!!!!!…

  19. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS…is that you ??? Spanish?…

    ANDREWS…oh,yeah…he is a photophilosopher and a BURNIAN…killer compination!!!.

    ouzo candies on me…VIVAAA…

    P.S I am getting ready for new “fights”…
    JUKKA and ALL my BURNIANS in Athens…fasten your seatbelts:)!!!

  20. panos skoulidas

    CIVI:)
    English translation here ( since you’re too busy to learn Spanish , I know I know you speak the chicken lingo ;)

    Hey man,
    Here we go. This is the interview in text.

    Give me your thoughts.

    Panos Skoulidas has been a photographer that I have admired for some time because he came out of the blue for me.

    I had never seen his work till he suddenly appeared on my instagram because I was following these ‘rockstar’ photographers I followed like an online sheep.

    His accessibility as an individual in the sea of mass media helped me to have the balls to ask him a couple questions, then a couple more, and then we were drinking together on skype and bitching about the same things – specifically, how we relate to photography as a media to express ourselves as individuals.
    Mr Panos Sir, turned into ‘whats up my friend?’ in an organic manner while I had so many questions to ask that he immediately started to rant about without me even asking.

    The reason why I wanted to interview him was to boost my self confidence. I’m about to embark in a new phase of my life by teaching younger people a workshop on “honest photography”.
    A workshop directed to people who are interested in having their voices heard through the medium of photography, while dealing a world that is over-saturated with visual contamination.
    The workshop will deal with the feeling, that we have all felt at some point, that everything has been done and it’s impossible to create something new.

    ‘Well fuck that shit’ I’ve always thought. As long as I’m honest with myself and sincerre with the fact that I’m unique, there is nobody on this planet just like myself, nobody will be able to create or recreate what is going on in my head. Technology has made it easy for us to share our work. Having faith in empathy keeps many artists alive by finding an emotional connection with strangers who will understand us. When we aren’t basing our economic survival on art alone, what more can we ask for?

    Here are some interesting exerpts of PANOS RANTS and a small sample of what went down.

    ~After dealing with my crappy internet and finding some stability on Skype and basic introductions I had to open a bottle of wine to level up with Panos who had just returned at his loft from a bar~

    ….So, Whats your story?

    I’m from Greece, All the crazy people are from Greece. Then I moved to LA and everything went wrong from there…

    How did you start working for BURN?

    It was back in 2008, I remember when David (DAH) used to have his blog `ROADTRIPS` and a friend of mine told me “Hey David Allan Harvey has a blog” so I started reading all of his stuff. I got involved and talked a lot of bullshit to people, being agressive and I didn’t like most of the work I was seeing there. And one day David told me “Hey you talk to much, do you have any work to show me or are you just ‘blablabla’ & I said YUPS! I never expected him to answer /acknowledge me right away. I sent him a link of photos and he told me it wasn’t good enough, “You still talk too much, can you do better?”
    I asked him what did he want me to do. “Where do you live, he said?” I said Venice beach, and he offered me a challenge. “In 3 months send me another link” and that is how it happened. It was just a challenge.

    After that he put up my slide show on the blog and Look3 festival . After that we became friends through work and work only.

    I learned a lot from David beacuse he would edit my stuff, telling me what pictures were good and sending me back to redo them. He would keep on encouraging me , feedback i back and forth, back and forth…

    Eventually for one Christmas he came to Venice California (Venice Beach) to give a workshop. We met for the first time. Ha ha I went to jail that night.

    We were sitting together at a coffee shop, all of the sudden there were sirens and an ambulance arrived the whole `story`. and david sayd “Why are you sitting here? GO SHOOT!”Smiling… Next thing I know I get arrested because I’m getting to close.
    He got me out of jail. Thats how we became friends. That (just friendship) doesnt mean much to David when it comes to work …, you still have to keep working hard and shooting and working. For me this (shooting) is going to be my shrink, my therapist..

    (Here is where Panos starts to RANT, just like we all do when we start talking about our photography experiences and how they interact with life)

    I started doing photography when I was 18, back in Greece, working for newspapers. My eye wasn’t what it is today…Newspapers want you to do the same bullshit, they will not challenge you. “Just go and bring this pictures”. This made me think I was good enough, because nobody challenged me. There is nothing ever good enough for David, that was the greatest challenge for me. “Go back, go back!” he would say, so he became more of a mentor for me than a friend.

    After a year I started helping him with his workshops, I never took a workshop in my life. Never had a dollar in my pocket. I helped him with a workshop in Brooklyn and after he payed me .. He didn’t have to, that wasn’t the deal.. I never expected any money at all, so right before I was going to take the airplane he says, “Here take some money”.
    This made me feel real good, I took a workshop for free, and stayed at his house. But he insisted that I worked hard.

    Burn was still a “joke” for many naysayers at that point, nobody would take it seriously. But when David started giving more asignments to me and other good people …and right after David started giving the Emerging Photographer Award , all $$$ from DONATIONS.. No money accepted from the corporate world, camera makers etc..(when
    Money involved, don’t want to be specific about amounts) , but people can look at our posts in Burn.. And AGAIN I NEED TO EMPHASIZE THIS: most important part, Burn doesnt accept any advertisements from corporations. Its all donations and from what we make from selling books. The first part, before the books, it was just people working hard who needed the money. I never got any money or EPF award myself, .. its all crystal clear: David doesn’t give away money to his friends is what I’m trying to say. It’s all clean, its all clear, there are no games because they are no corporations behind it. Nobody can tell us what to publish, or what to do. It’s revolutionary. I was always working for some magazine who was telling me who to make look good. David tells me to do what ever comes from your heart, let’s see if you have something to say.

    We are all good photographers, I don’t think I’m better than you, nor you better than me. If you have something to say, then photography just comes along with it. The problem is having something to say.
    It’s not the camera that you use, not how tricky you are. Like writing a book, here is your pen, here is your papper, now, write me a story. Its about good storytelling. It’s all in here (tapping at his head) its all in your heart.

    About saying something more than just taking sexy pictures, a camera by itself on a tripod can take good pictures. Honestly I dont care about technical stuff anymore, I used to care so much about technical stuff when I was younger, but but fuck all that. Do you have a story to tell? To have a story to tell you have to live life. Like Nietzsche said “If you don’t live a dangerous life you don’t have a story to tell”

    ~ I’m researching the concept of honest photography because I want to know If someone is bullshitting me. When I see someone’s portfolio I see a fraction of that person’s life, the manias, their fetishes, a fraction of thir personal life. I want to know if someone is lying to me, if this is a set up to be published in a magazine or if it’s for real. How does BURN deal with this? What do you look for? How do you know if it’s bullshit or if it’s real?

    ~Panos~
    Last month I had Antoine D’Agata staying with me here at my couch for two weeks. He was finishing his movie and i was assisting..Reason I’m talking about him is because he is probably ONE of the most honest photographers in the world, he photographs his life. For this there is a magic word, and the word is MIRROR. It’s all about mirroring yourself.
    If you lie through your photography you can simply say ‘nobody knows me’ I can say anything I want, I can create a fake image. Guess what, people will find out. First of all it’s obviouse, if you see a lot of work you can see who is lying. Not easy at the beginning.

    And speaking about Antoine D’Agata who is in MAGNUM. There is an 8 year process to be in MAGNUM, you’re going under the microscope. These people see your life, it’s about how honest and how precise you are in mirroring yourself. A mirror never lies. You can work hard on creating a fake mirror but trust me you will be uncovered. Sooner or later it happens to all of us.
    How far do you want to go in the art world? If you want to work for a newspaper, you don’t have to be honest. You can be an obedient bullshitter.

    The difference between BURN, which is a baby in the art world, or a toddler, is the mirror thing, it’s the honesty thing. Nobody really gets paid. I could be working at a McDonalds. I was homeless for a long time, I was towing cars for a long time. I did every fucking job you could think of but it doesn’t mean I have to sell my soul to the devil (corporate media anymore ). And that is where Burn helped me and many others. We won’t judge you by where you’re from or what you look like or what kind of job you have or if you’re a “pro” (Making the quotation mark with his fingers). It’s about if its coming from your heart or your life or even if its a story coming from your subconscious, something stuck in your head. If you have mental problems, show me your mental problems. In your pictures.

    Old school photo journalists look at it and ask “what is this bull shit?”

    even if you read some of the comments on the blog there many questions about “what is this bull shit. “

    We show people who have fears, and manage to photograph their own fears. It’s much easier to go and photograph some else’s problems, go to India, go to LA, Skid Row and shoot the homeless. WOW WOW WOW, STOP! How about homeless yourself and shoot your own life? Show me your life. Going from your beautiful mansions/hotel to take pictures of the famous or the poor is complete bullshit.
    If you want to take pictures honestly. You have to cut your veins a little bit, have to bleed, it has to hurt you a llittle bit. If you’re not getting hurt by your own picture then its not good enough.

    When Robert Cappa said “if you’re not close enough it’s not a good picture”, he didn’t mean it in a physical way. It’s about connection. If not it’s not going to work. Nikos Economopoulos told me once when I assisted him at his Istanbul workshop at 2010 , “you need to know your codes and where you can perform”. He (Nikos) is a great Magnum photographer in the Balcan area. He once told me a story about an assignment he took in Japan, he said “I didn’t shoot one picture”. I failed completley. But that is not a bad thing. It’s not their fault, its not my fault, We just don’t click. So GO and find the things with which you click. Photograph the thing you care about.
    Don’t take pictures that you think that maybe BURN would like, or even a local news paper/press may like. Dont worry about that. Take pictures of what you like, because this way i ( the audience) will like it too.

    ~(ME)
    So what kind of people are actually conectting with you and BURN? people who are actually getting inspired by your work.

    ~PANOS
    MIRROR MIRROR MIRROR.

    Let me put it in music.
    What song do you like? Why do you Like it? Probably because the person who made that song, it means something. He means it.

    I don’t like preformers just because they have a good voice think Pavarotti

  23. panos skoulidas

    ..
    INTERVIEW PART2:

    .It’s one thing to have
    a good voice and another to mean what you say. (we started talking about Kurt Cobain and we both ranted off for a while) Think about Sid Vicious, he only knew one chord. But they are GREAT Because they mirrored themselves.
    I love hip hop for this. I’ve met the people who drive the Bentleys, and I’ve met the people from the HOOD ,who really meant what they rap about, and they are the ones who got in danger, in trouble, for their own lyrics. It’s the same thing with photographers.

    ~ME~It’s dangerous to speak your mind.

    Of course, we all have fears, we can’t say anything against the King the “establishment” the Status Quo. I love to believe in free speech but there is no such thing. There is always somebody who will try and control you. My job, your job is to resist that. Our job is to put ourselves in danger and see what happens. If you’re longing to be safe, the outside world will know.

    If you lose your integrety, you lose it forever. In Greece we say, “It’s better to lose your arm than lose your name. “

    ~ME~
    Thats what I like about Burn. And its not easy to find more sources related this subject.
    Its not about the aesthetics, not about forcing people to like your work beacuse its pretty.

    ~PANOS~
    I’ll be honnest with you. We all want to be liked… I also want to be succesfull. But I’m not going to give my arm or sell my soul.
    I’m a very suspicious dude, There many photographers out there that I don’t like their work, and I won’t go up to talk to them because I don’t like their work.

    Back in the day, many photographers got lucky at ‘big Agencies’ but with the today’s standards they would not be there or anywhere…history will prove it.. Bullshitters won’t last

    ~me~
    What do you think are the biggest mistakes now-a-days with kids who are trying to study photography, the kids who are stuck in a hole and obsessed with technical issues, What is stopping them from being individuals insted of the masses?

    ~PANOS~
    When I was younger I remember reading all sorts of Tech magazines about photography. And all the questions were about what kind of camera or lenses, pushing or pulling film, but it’s all bullshit. And that sells. Most new, young people, believe if they master the technical part, they think they’re done.

    The second mistake is imitating the masters, they think that if they can copy an image they can become the next DAVID ALLAN HARVEY or the next Antoine D’Agata. BIG MISTAKE.

    The Key to that door is, to find who you are. and be only (Insert your name here) and only that person. If you’re not able to picture that, then you have failed. The same for me… it goes for everybody. You have to find yourself.

    When I read, it makes my photography better. When I went to see Frida Kahlo’s musem, I cried like a baby and THAT alone made my photography / philosophy better. When I watch Breaking Bad ( although a mainstream TV show ) it makes my photography better. When I listen to 2PAC or Dr. Dre or somebody whom I believe as a writer, it makes my photography better.

    ~ME~
    Different arts are languages.

    ~Panos~
    This is what David calls AUTHORSHIP.. Tell us a story. Trust me, nobody at the higher end of art will ask you what kind of camera you used for your picture. Only idiots ask these questions.

    Now I’m starting to learn, (oh but I was so much older then , I’m younger than that now)…, I wasted 20 years, checking pixels, cameras and lenses, wasting my time. David was the first person who told me to stop all of that.

    Go back home and ask your self, WHO AM I? and what do I want from all of this…

    ~ME~
    What are you working on now?

    I’m working a lot with David now, were doing the big trip, leaving next week, going to rent an RV from LA to NY. we dont know if it’s going to last a week or a month. We don’t know if we have money for gas right now, we need to see how far we can go.
    I’m working on my Venice book for my 5th year now, so I want to get a really good book out of it. My original Idea was to make it out of ZigZag smoking paper, but Snoop Dog just did that about 5 months ago and I’m really pissed off. My idea for 5 years and I never had the money to materialize it, and he ( SNOOP ) sold 60 thousand books overnight..and now you can’t find it/sold out.. I’ve photographed him many many times for POWER106FM in LA and ( laughing) I don’t say he stole my idea I never talked to Snoop about it. Oh well…

    But for what your question was I’m really going to work on the Greek recession, not because it’s something that sells,not because is in the news on a daily basis, but because my family is there. In the West side of Athens, even though I grew up in Athens… my friends can’t even go out in the streets anymore because there are Neo Nazis “patrolling” and all this bullshit going on. I’m going for a month around Christmas. Not going to photograph the riots and the police. I’m going to photograph my family and how they cope with this situation.

    There were two thousand suicides last year. Greece used to be the happiest place on earth. As Brazilians dance, and Argentinians partying and drinking. We were drinking ouzo and going to the beach every day. Europe ended up creating this big mess, this is my home, this is where i grew up.
    I’m not going to go photograph in Iraq because I don’t know anything about that, I mean I know, but I really dont. I only know what TV tells me.

    ~ME ~
    about the creative process, how do you know when you’re breaking you comfort zone ?

    ~panos
    It hurts. You think twice. Should i put that out?
    When you start having questions like that, look at a picture like that and ask your self. Am i hurting myself? Am i hurting my sister? My wife? My kids? Then you know. There is something true going on.

    You can have an emotional or mental block sometimes and you don’t have to fight it or shoot fake pictures, you can do something else. I’m shooting blindly, shooting a lot with my phone now days because I think it’s less pretentious. Being a photographer can also be a trap, people automatically expect something from me and it makes me anctious. Take it like a dream, when you go to sleep at night you don’t know what your going to see. When I go out I have no plan, I just put myself out there to have fun, or have a drink just live my life. 99% of the times I come home with nothing. But in the meantime I’ve met someone, and I’ll go back to that some one to connect.

    I’ve learned from several people that I respect that we can have a conversation all night without having to touch a camera. We can meet again, the most important part is to create a connection. I used to religiously carry a camera with me but now I feel like it’s more important to enjoy people than to steal a picture of their faces.
    When I’m going to go shoot people I’m going to go live with them, party with them, drink with them, pass out at their floor ( I slept inside a broken refrigerator for 3 days in Venice Beach once). If they let me in its fine, if they dont it’s also fine. But if they let me I’ll stay a couple weeks at their house and THEN take their picture.
    People don’t want to be exposed all the time, its hard to have a conversation if you have a camera in their face all the time. Everyone nowadays is obsesed with success, what will be our next step. You’ve got to hold on a minute and not be so intrusive. Ask for permission, not in the formal way but in a “becoming friends” way. Let me fight you, make love, even trash you for a minute, lets trash each other and move on and maybe we can get some good pictures out of it.
    It’s like sex. How many one night stands are good? Usually its the 3rd or 4th time or a month later when sex becomes great. It’s the same with photogaphy. People are so lazy, that they thing that as soon as someone is in there studio they will get a great portrait. But nobody is going to give it to you like that, nobody is going to open up just like that.

    It’s not about failure or success NOT ABOUT GOOD OR BAD, the people who are stuck on these two options are bipolar , it’s about going back and doing the hard work.IF You’re stuck in the “middle” all the time your not going to fail nor succeed.

    Fear is healthy and it keeps us alive, but if you get stuck behind the mask you created for your self-image by trying to lie to your own mirror because you’re afraid to be naked or honest to your self, then you’re done. You are never coming out. You have to let out who you are. Find a way to tell your story.
    I never said all great photographers and or great/famous artists are all “good” people. Even if you’re “bad” at least be honest about it. You’ll still be great. If your a killer, show me who you are and it will be great work. I want to see your perspective of this world.

    Show me your perception of the world. I know mine. And most people don’t know theirs. I want to read YOUR book. Not a propaganda history book, but your ideas. You’re not going to convince me anyway, nobody’s perfect. Nobody is the greatest philosopher. Rip off your mask and show me who you are, we all have a mask and we need to learn how to pull it off.

    At BURN, we feel like a punk garage band. I’m sure that many kids now a day have great knowledge of technical things. If you would see me working on my computer you would probably laugh at my tech skills..
    Nowadays with all the accessible mediums, Instagram, Facebook, you just need to put yourself out there. And if you’re going to use shameless publicity to plug yourself to get work, do the hard work FIRST…that comes with photography. Don’t be shy and locked in your room. A lot of people with great work wait in their home to be discovered, this will never happen. Put yourself out there. All the time, show but also CREATE work.

    Never stop shooting. A camera is the cheapest fucking shrink you will ever find.

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